Author Topic: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?  (Read 30247 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2016, 12:30:44 PM »
An interesting read seemingly less concerned with the welfare of a child than the discovery of a controlled substance during a police search of luggage without a warrant.

The fact that the tablets were in their original container, properly labelled, prescribed by the doctor of the person in whose possession they were discovered ... seems to have carried no weight at all.

It has the potential to become a bit of a cause célèbre if it ever comes to trial ... and I look forward to seeing the CCTV images of the child sitting on the floor for an hour in the hotel foyer while staff manoeuvre heavy suitcases over his head.

In the interim, a British child is in the hands of the New York care system which is in the throes of a class action which alleges it cannot care for its own.


Why NYC's Foster Care System is Failing Children
JUL 10, 2015 12:30 PM
NINA WOLPOW


PHOTO: BEBETO MATTHEWS/AP PHOTO.

City Public Advocate Letitia James, center, and child advocates hold a press conference announcing a class action lawsuit against the New York City Administration for Children’s Services (ACS) and the New York State Office of Children and Family Services (OCFS) for causing irreparable harm to children, Wednesday, July 8, 2015, in New York.

Tell me Brietta.

Is it fair to say that the vast majority of neglect/abuse of children is from the parents ?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2016, 01:49:45 PM »
Ah the 'McCann defence ' it's always someone else's fault ' !
that's not really addressing the point of the post.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 03:10:35 PM by Angelo222 »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2016, 01:57:41 PM »
Tell me Brietta.

Is it fair to say that the vast majority of neglect/abuse of children is from the parents ?

the majority of abuse toward children is from parents or friends but children in care are much more likely to be abused than those with their parents..
work that one out

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2016, 02:03:13 PM »
the majority of abuse toward children is from parents or friends but children in care are much more likely to be abused than those with their parents..
work that one out

Can you provide some backing for that statement?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2016, 02:06:00 PM »
Can you provide some backing for that statement?

evryone with any sense would understand that to be true...do you not agree

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2016, 02:11:02 PM »
Can you provide some backing for that statement?

One in every hundred children living in care is abused every year in Britain, according to the most comprehensive study conducted into the issue.

The research by York University and the NSPCC is the first of its kind to uncover and analyse local authority records on abuse in foster and residential care.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/major-study-reveals-true-scale-of-abuse-of-children-living-in-care-9587244.html

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2016, 02:45:29 PM »
One in every hundred children living in care is abused every year in Britain, according to the most comprehensive study conducted into the issue.

The research by York University and the NSPCC is the first of its kind to uncover and analyse local authority records on abuse in foster and residential care.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/major-study-reveals-true-scale-of-abuse-of-children-living-in-care-9587244.html

Not relevant to this case.

The woman neglected her baby.

Offline Brietta

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2016, 04:18:56 PM »
Not relevant to this case.

The woman neglected her baby.

Allegedly.

Rather odd that you rush to judgement without knowing the full facts of the case.

Someone somewhere in Portugal publicised that Calpol can be used to drug children which led to a pretty hair raising experience in that country for at least one British couple and their child.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/maddie-mccann-police-took-our-baby-because-we-gave-her-calpol-belfast-couples-portugal-holiday-hell-30375896.html

Products containing codeine can be easily purchased over the counter in Britain with stronger analgesics available from the doctor as prescription medicine.  It is not illegal to have your prescribed medicine on your person in Britain.  That there is some difference in that circumstance in New York seems irrefutable.
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html

Perhaps it behoves British parents, particularly those travelling with toddlers, to study very carefully the cultural differences in foreign countries prior to going there to enable them to decide if they wish to put their children at risk of being taken into the care systems there or as in the case of the Belfast couple, having medical procedures carried out on them without consent.

In Britain we have a fairly good cultural record which has enabled us to raise generations of children to adulthood.  I have no idea why some Brits feel it incumbent to trash all things British from our police to our parenting.

I think I could manage to get used to the Portuguese climate in the twinkling of an eye and if I were as anti-British as some I would contemplate moving there (I would love to live in a brownstone building in New York).
The world is our oyster and full of interesting places.

Please don't trash a nation in the attempt to score a point (which you are not managing to do anyway) few other Nationals would even think to do that. 
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2016, 04:21:25 PM »
Allegedly.

Rather odd that you rush to judgement without knowing the full facts of the case.

Someone somewhere in Portugal publicised that Calpol can be used to drug children which led to a pretty hair raising experience in that country for at least one British couple and their child.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/maddie-mccann-police-took-our-baby-because-we-gave-her-calpol-belfast-couples-portugal-holiday-hell-30375896.html

Products containing codeine can be easily purchased over the counter in Britain with stronger analgesics available from the doctor as prescription medicine.  It is not illegal to have your prescribed medicine on your person in Britain.  That there is some difference in that circumstance in New York seems irrefutable.
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html

Perhaps it behoves British parents, particularly those travelling with toddlers, to study very carefully the cultural differences in foreign countries prior to going there to enable them to decide if they wish to put their children at risk of being taken into the care systems there or as in the case of the Belfast couple, having medical procedures carried out on them without consent.

In Britain we have a fairly good cultural record which has enabled us to raise generations of children to adulthood.  I have no idea why some Brits feel it incumbent to trash all things British from our police to our parenting.

I think I could manage to get used to the Portuguese climate in the twinkling of an eye and if I were as anti-British as some I would contemplate moving there (I would love to live in a brownstone building in New York).
The world is our oyster and full of interesting places.

Please don't trash a nation in the attempt to score a point (which you are not managing to do anyway) few other Nationals would even think to do that.

Total hypocrisy.

You take every chance you get to denigrate those not believing in the mccanns, and anything which goes against the mccann doctrine.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2016, 04:27:07 PM »
Not relevant to this case.

The woman neglected her baby.

my post is hardly irrelevant when it was in response to a request from slarti to provide supporting evidence for my claim

Offline mercury

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2016, 12:09:42 AM »
my post is hardly irrelevant when it was in response to a request from slarti to provide supporting evidence for my claim

You quoted an article giving statistics of abuse for one side (children in foster care/homes) but you ommitted to give the statistics for the other side (children in their own homes), so your response was not a proper response/all around cite...unless we are to settle with, well, "anyone with any sense would understand that to be true"

oh dear

So lets have the whole story then we can judge if your claim was correct or incorrect

In any case, the thread has been derailed from its original subject matter...is it true that "cultural differences" play a role here..is it a defence?....against the sometimes/often draconian USA mindset,  or Nyone else for that matter, can the defendant in this case (who btw still has a neglect charge pending a court hearing ) claim that it is normal in the uk to leave a baby on its own for at least half an hour and leave the premises? Well, no it is not a defence.As it is not true. Was it the USA authorities place to remove the child and foster it? Instead of alerting UK authorities to come get the child? Pdq.No. Id like to see the law whch enables them to do this.If that law does not exist then maybe the UK has questions to answer. Whch is it.?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 12:43:11 AM by mercury »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2016, 04:51:55 PM »
...

Someone somewhere in Portugal publicised that Calpol can be used to drug children which led to a pretty hair raising experience in that country for at least one British couple and their child.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/maddie-mccann-police-took-our-baby-because-we-gave-her-calpol-belfast-couples-portugal-holiday-hell-30375896.html

...

Perhaps it behoves British parents, particularly those travelling with toddlers, to study very carefully the cultural differences in foreign countries prior to going there to enable them to decide if they wish to put their children at risk of being taken into the care systems there or as in the case of the Belfast couple, having medical procedures carried out on them without consent.

...

Please don't trash a nation in the attempt to score a point (which you are not managing to do anyway) few other Nationals would even think to do that.
Please let me explain how this incident was reported in Portugal.  I remember seeing the reports of the hotel staff.

The couple had been drinking.  They had an argument in their hotel room.  The male stormed off, carrying the child with him.

The female got on the phone to hotel reception.  She screamed that her child had been abducted, and insisted that the police were called immediately.

Hotel reception called the police, who duly turned up at reception.  (Please don't ask when the call was placed, how long it took to respond, or whether the locality was blocked off to prevent the abductor from getting away.  I don't know the answer.)

Again according to hotel staff, it is reported that the male had gone to the bar for further drinks, balanced with the child in one hand and a drink in the other.  It seems the male made it back to the room before the police arrived, because he was there when they started to investigate the abduction.

The scene described was that, on a first floor hotel room, the couple were back arguing again, having left a young child outside on its own on the balcony of the flat.

In the course of investigating the incident, the police found Calpol, which is illegal in Portugal.

They took the child to hospital for tests.  The mother got very upset at this.  The partner was not with her.  He had returned to the bar, for more drink.

The version I saw in the Irish press made the couple's room on the first floor, while the police had claimed the child had been thrown off the 8th floor.  There was no mention of a beating at the hospital, merely that all the man's money had been stolen by the police while they searched the hotel room.

So there you have it.

Please feel free to pick your version.  Either, the Algarve is still a hell hole, with corrupt cops and horrendous laws, a place surely to be avoided.  Or, two drunken Irish parents who should have been looking after the child better, and who have been refining their tale since that incident.

I have a clear opinion of this incident, but I shall keep it to myself.

I definitely would not use this tale to attempt to exonerate or to denigrate the McCanns.



« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:19:56 PM by ShiningInLuz »
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2016, 07:36:32 PM »
Please let me explain how this incident was reported in Portugal.  I remember seeing the reports of the hotel staff.

The couple had been drinking.  They had an argument in their hotel room.  The male stormed off, carrying the child with him.

The female got on the phone to hotel reception.  She screamed that her child had been abducted, and insisted that the police were called immediately.

Hotel reception called the police, who duly turned up at reception.  (Please don't ask when the call was placed, how long it took to respond, or whether the locality was blocked off to prevent the abductor from getting away.  I don't know the answer.)

Again according to hotel staff, it is reported that the male had gone to the bar for further drinks, balanced with the child in one hand and a drink in the other.  It seems the male made it back to the room before the police arrived, because he was there when they started to investigate the abduction.

The scene described was that, on a first floor hotel room, the couple were back arguing again, having left a young child outside on its own on the balcony of the flat.

In the course of investigating the incident, the police found Calpol, which is illegal in Portugal.

They took the child to hospital for tests.  The mother got very upset at this.  The partner was not with her.  He had returned to the bar, for more drink.

The version I saw in the Irish press made the couple's room on the first floor, while the police had claimed the child had been thrown off the 8th floor.  There was no mention of a beating at the hospital, merely that all the man's money had been stolen by the police while they searched the hotel room.

So there you have it.

Please feel free to pick your version.  Either, the Algarve is still a hell hole, with corrupt cops and horrendous laws, a place surely to be avoided.  Or, two drunken Irish parents who should have been looking after the child better, and who have been refining their tale since that incident.

I have a clear opinion of this incident, but I shall keep it to myself.

I definitely would not use this tale to attempt to exonerate or to denigrate the McCanns.

The baby was taken to the parents, couple of Irish tourists on holiday in the Algarve, on Sunday night. The girl's mother was seen on the balcony of the 8th floor of the hotel with the baby on her lap, putting her in danger. Both parents showed signs of intoxication and shot the 14 months to the pool baby. There are suspicions that the child was sedated.

A bebé foi retirada aos pais, casal de turistas irlandeses a passar férias no Algarve, no domingo à noite. A mãe da menina foi vista na varanda do 8º andar do hotel com a bebé ao colo, colocando-a em perigo. Ambos os progenitores apresentavam sinais de embriaguez e atiraram a bebé de 14 meses para a piscina. Há suspeitas de que a criança estivesse sedada.

Ler mais em: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?anno=2&depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=pt-BR&tl=en&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/bebe-de-casal-irlandes-embriagado-regressa-aos-pais.html&usg=ALkJrhh4n1p89qGa_8Z2-Nnr8KI57xVS4g



Hmmmm .... I can well see why there might be cultural differences in the upbringing of British children and those of other nationals.  Ours can apparently survive being 'shot' from the eighth floor of an hotel by their parents and propelled into the hotel pool, sustained by nothing more than a spoonful of Calpol.

Good to see that the Portuguese press continues to uphold the standards established in 2007 as far as reporting on Brits and their children on holidays.

Anyway, in just a few years time it would seem that a young Eireann will be lifting golds in the Olympics if she can be rehabilitated off the Calpol by then.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2016, 07:56:16 PM »
The baby was taken to the parents, couple of Irish tourists on holiday in the Algarve, on Sunday night. The girl's mother was seen on the balcony of the 8th floor of the hotel with the baby on her lap, putting her in danger. Both parents showed signs of intoxication and shot the 14 months to the pool baby. There are suspicions that the child was sedated.

A bebé foi retirada aos pais, casal de turistas irlandeses a passar férias no Algarve, no domingo à noite. A mãe da menina foi vista na varanda do 8º andar do hotel com a bebé ao colo, colocando-a em perigo. Ambos os progenitores apresentavam sinais de embriaguez e atiraram a bebé de 14 meses para a piscina. Há suspeitas de que a criança estivesse sedada.

Ler mais em: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?anno=2&depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=pt-BR&tl=en&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/bebe-de-casal-irlandes-embriagado-regressa-aos-pais.html&usg=ALkJrhh4n1p89qGa_8Z2-Nnr8KI57xVS4g



Hmmmm .... I can well see why there might be cultural differences in the upbringing of British children and those of other nationals.  Ours can apparently survive being 'shot' from the eighth floor of an hotel by their parents and propelled into the hotel pool, sustained by nothing more than a spoonful of Calpol.

Good to see that the Portuguese press continues to uphold the standards established in 2007 as far as reporting on Brits and their children on holidays.

Anyway, in just a few years time it would seem that a young Eireann will be lifting golds in the Olympics if she can be rehabilitated off the Calpol by then.

This post appears to be more about denigrating a PT newspaper than UK culture.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Brietta

Re: Is UK 'culture' to blame for child neglect -leading to child suffering?
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2016, 08:14:03 PM »
This post appears to be more about denigrating a PT newspaper than UK culture.

                                               In your opinion, perhaps?

If you read Shining's post you will note she makes reference to the manner in which the incident was reported in Portugal.

You will see my post makes reference to the Portuguese press ... the quote is an example of this.

The photograph illustrates the pool of the Hotel Paraiso in Albufeira where the family were staying with the hotel in the background. 
The Portuguese press reported that a months old child had been thrown from an eighth floor balcony into that pool.

If that is the evidence relied upon to denigrate Brits in popular culture and their parenting skills ... are you buying into the probability that such an event ... as reported in the Portuguese press ... is feasible?

In other words ... is the portrayal of drunken, brawling Brits drugging their children with calpol ... a fair and accurate portrayal of British culture?

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....