Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.

[Robittybob1]

My biggest grumble about the inspection of vehicles has long been the simple fact of 10 cars inspected simultaneously.

There was an innocent scent in the Renault (spots of Gerry's blood on the ignition key) and there might, easily, have been innocent scents in any of the other 9 cars.

That could only risk confusion for the dog.

In what sense is that good practice?

What is good practice is what the PJ (in writing up their 'official' not! report of the inspection at the gym) say:  to test an area beforehand (for prior scents) then introduce whatever you want the dogs to test.

Grime's performance at PdL is littered with evidence of poor practice, and the documented records (closely studied) prove it.

I thought they were considered sufficiently spaced.

[ferryman]

I thought they were considered sufficiently spaced.

If it was a random (simultaneous) selection of vehicles (it wasn't; there was only one vehicle in the line-up with "Find Madeleine" stickers on the back) then there might have been an equal chance (of any vehicle in the line-up) containing a scent within the dog's scent-range.

If there was more than one (vehicle in the line-up) with such a scent, then what was Eddie supposed to choose?

[Angelo222]

My biggest grumble about the inspection of vehicles has long been the simple fact of 10 cars inspected simultaneously.

There was an innocent scent in the Renault (spots of Gerry's blood on the ignition key) and there might, easily, have been innocent scents in any of the other 9 cars.

That could only risk confusion for the dog.

In what sense is that good practice?

What is good practice is what the PJ (in writing up their 'official' not! report of the inspection at the gym) say:  to test an area beforehand (for prior scents) then introduce whatever you want the dogs to test.

Grime had no control over the arrangements, if anyone was to blame it was Harrison for allowing shoddy practise in the first place.  If the arrangements provided by the Portuguese were inadequate he should have stopped the examinations.  Your obsession with Grime is misplaced ferryman, he was a lowly constable who had to do whatever he was tasked to do.

[ferryman]

Now we were in an underground garage where 8 or so cars (actually 10) were parked, including our rented Renault Scenic.  It was hard to miss: the windows were plastered with pictures of Madeleine.  In medicine we would call this an 'unblinded' study, one that is susceptible to bias.  One of the dogs ran straight past our car, nose in the air, headed towards the next vehicle.  The handler stopped next to the Renault and called the dog.  It obeyed, returning to him, but then ran off again.  Staying by the car, Grime instructed the dog to come back several times and directed it several parts of the vehicle before it eventually supplied an alert by barking.

Kate McCann.

(My own addition) At one point in the video, Eddie actually squatted several seconds under the boot of the Renault, before getting up, wandering off and being called back again by Grime.

The evidence (of the influence of handler-bias) is well documented and actually referred to by Grime himself in his profile.

[Angelo222]

Kate McCann.

(My own addition) At one point in the video, Eddie actually squatted several seconds under the boot of the Renault, before getting up, wandering off and being called back again by Grime.

I totally agree regardless of my own views in this case, the dog handler should never have been made aware which vehicle was of most interest. Several identical Scenics should have been tested together because the whole world knew the McCanns had a Scenic hire car.

[ferryman]

Grime had no control over the arrangements, if anyone was to blame it was Harrison for allowing shoddy practise in the first place.  If the arrangements provided by the Portuguese were inadequate he should have stopped the examinations.  Your obsession with Grime is misplaced ferryman, he was a lowly constable who had to do whatever he was tasked to do.

Harrison should definitely have been more intrusive.

[Angelo222]

Harrison should definitely have been more intrusive.

I think the British cops got carried away with it all and left their brains at Passport Control.

[G-Unit]

Both your enboldened sentences are assumptions too!

I made is clear that I didn't know (was assuming ) by starting with "To me, it seems ...."


Why pick on me when you are guilty of the same?

Sorry Sadie, I wasn't intending to 'pick on' you. I was trying to make the point that assumptions don't really add anything to the debate. To demonstrate that I offered another assumption, different to yours.

As neither can be proved right or wrong using the evidence available both assumptions are useless.

[Robittybob1]

If it was a random (simultaneous) selection of vehicles (it wasn't; there was only one vehicle in the line-up with "Find Madeleine" stickers on the back) then there might have been an equal chance (of any vehicle in the line-up) containing a scent within the dog's scent-range.

If there was more than one (vehicle in the line-up) with such a scent, then what was Eddie supposed to choose?

I don't understand your question.
"If there was more than one (vehicle in the line-up) with such a scent, then what was Eddie supposed to choose?" It would seem to be "more than one" chosen.

[G-Unit]

Sorry, replying to this (from G-Unit)


What you have picked up is something translated from the French by Anna Esse and without official index referencing.

Let's stick to the official files, shall we?

Do you agree that the 'official' record (of the inspection at the gym) is a pile of crock?

What I 'picked up' was a quote from the official files, I forgot to post the link;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm
08-Processo Volume 8 pages 2186 to 2188

[ferryman]

Sorry Sadie, I wasn't intending to 'pick on' you. I was trying to make the point that assumptions don't really add anything to the debate. To demonstrate that I offered another assumption, different to yours.

As neither can be proved right or wrong using the evidence available both assumptions are useless.

Assumptions?

Adducing facts and drawing the (only) logical inferences from them that can be drawn is not to make assumptions.

[ferryman]

What I 'picked up' was a quote from the official files, I forgot to post the link;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm
08-Processo Volume 8 pages 2186 to 2188

Inspection of the apartments.
Eddie and Keela - what the Madeleine McCann case file says.

What you specifically quoted does not have an index reference.

It may be included in the official files but it is not from the official files.

[G-Unit]

I think the British cops got carried away with it all and left their brains at Passport Control.

I don;t suppose they ever imagined that their work would be subjected to detailed scrutiny by armchair detectives in their hundreds. The British police did their best to get stuff kept secret when it dawned on them that the Portuguese intended to release the files, but some was missed. I note one of Harrison's reports was marked 'Restricted' but it was released.

Expecting people to be perfect at all times is unrealistic in my opinion. How many people would be confident that their work is so good that no-one could ever criticise it? Not many, if they were honest. Only recently a murderer was caught in part because a police officer didn't follow correct procedure. He got his man but lost his job.

[Angelo222]

I don;t suppose they ever imagined that their work would be subjected to detailed scrutiny by armchair detectives in their hundreds. The British police did their best to get stuff kept secret when it dawned on them that the Portuguese intended to release the files, but some was missed. I note one of Harrison's reports was marked 'Restricted' but it was released.

Expecting people to be perfect at all times is unrealistic in my opinion. How many people would be confident that their work is so good that no-one could ever criticise it? Not many, if they were honest. Only recently a murderer was caught in part because a police officer didn't follow correct procedure. He got his man but lost his job.

Good points G-Unit.  Something I don't understand though is, were the dogs sent to PdL to clear the arguidos or implicate them?

[pathfinder73]

I totally agree regardless of my own views in this case, the dog handler should never have been made aware which vehicle was of most interest. Several identical Scenics should have been tested together because the whole world knew the McCanns had a Scenic hire car.

Eddie's behaviour changed when passing that car. That is on video and clear evidence of him finding the scent. It didn't change passing another car but the Scenic regardless of posters or what others think. The dog behaviour changing is clear to all.