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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: DCI on January 21, 2015, 04:25:25 PM
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Lisbon - Wednesday 21 January 2015
Todays session is not a hearing in the strictest sense, merely an opportunity for the judge to reveal those facts which she considers proven or not proven.
Each of the lawyers will be given a copy of the document and asked to read it. Thereafter they will be free to ask questions of the judge by way of clarification. They can also make a formal objection in writing to any of the stated facts.
This document will form the basis of the judges decision so it is important that all parties agree to it ahead of the final session.
Full Report and Statement of Fact (http://www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.msg213207#msg213207)
http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/maddie-mccann/maddie-tribunal-considera-que-goncalo-amaral-causou-danos-aos-mccann (http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/maddie-mccann/maddie-tribunal-considera-que-goncalo-amaral-causou-danos-aos-mccann)
Gonçalo Amaral: Court gives reason to the parents of Maddie
Order found as a fact that the former PJ inspector book caused damage to the child's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann
The court gave this Wednesday as evidence that the book of former Inspector of Judicial Police (PJ) Gonçalo Amaral, entitled 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie', caused damage to the parents of Madeleine McCann, missing British child in 2007, Algarve. In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged. Madeleine McCann disappeared when she was four-years-old in the tourist village of Aldeia da Luz, near Portimao, where the family was on vacation. Kate and Gerry McCann have always maintained the position that Maddie was abducted. The case was recently reopened by prosecutors.
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It's amazing how Diário de Notícias only reported one of the "facts" and none of the others which were not proven.
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It's amazing how Diário de Notícias only reported one of the "facts" and none of the others which were not proven.
so damages have been proved
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so damages have been proved
It certainly, looks to be the case, Davel. ...
Maddie: Court gives as proven damage caused by Gonçalo Amaral
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/maddie_tribunal_da_como_provado_danos_causados_por_goncalo_amaral_a_kate_e_gerry_mccann.html
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It's amazing how Diário de Notícias only reported one of the "facts" and none of the others which were not proven.
You mean the paper should, also, have made reference to the huge swathe of factual misrepresentations, contained in the book, which convey the specious impression that Madeline is definitely dead, that kate and Gerry caused her death and that they launched a fraudulent 'fund' in their (dead) daughter's name?
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From the ruling today...
The judge once more believes it is expectable that the plaintiffs would feel badly about being considered to be responsible for hiding the body and staging an abduction - not, the judge stresses, about being responsible for their daughter's death, as is commonly, and mistakenly, believed.
and this from a Portuguese judge...fantastic
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Both newspapers have exactly the same article, word for word, probably given to them by Isabel Duarte. It's a shame that they did not reproduce the rest of what the judge said about that fact. So don't start dancing in the streets!
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Both newspapers have exactly the same article, word for word, probably given to them by Isabel Duarte. It's a shame that they did not reproduce the rest of what the judge said about that fact. So don't start dancing in the streets!
It has been proved that amaral has caused damages to the McCanns..plenty of reason to celebrate..
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It has been proved that amaral has caused damages to the McCanns..plenty of reason to celebrate..
Seems the judge didn't take kindly with him using the files for his comic.
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year.
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http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post320999.html
Thank you to Astro for the information.
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So is this today's bad news the McCanns were keen to bury by getting the Mail to delay their report on Debbie Butler's conviction? Confused... &%+((£
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I suppose its down to what the damage is considered to amount to and what monetary value is placed on it.
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http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post320999.html
Thank you to Astro for the information.
Yes, sheds a very different light on the situation than is being touted on here.
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From the ruling today...
The judge once more believes it is expectable that the plaintiffs would feel badly about being considered to be responsible for hiding the body and staging an abduction - not, the judge stresses, about being responsible for their daughter's death, as is commonly, and mistakenly, believed.
and this from a Portuguese judge...fantastic
AFAIK, the lawyers for the defendants are optimistic about the rulings today. Perhaps you should save your celebrations till you get all of your information. There are about 36 facts to be proven and more than one about damages done to the parents and most were NOT proven.
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Both newspapers have exactly the same article, word for word, probably given to them by Isabel Duarte. It's a shame that they did not reproduce the rest of what the judge said about that fact. So don't start dancing in the streets!
How did Isabel manage that? she wasn't there. The McCanns weren't there, neither was Amaral.
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Ah, I see -it's bad news for Amaral. Well what a surprise! 8((()*/
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Well, The McCanns haven't lost. That's for sure.
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As I read this, the judge is saying that the book never said that the parents were responsible for their daughter's death. AFAIK, the lawyers for the defendents are optimistic about the rulings today. Perhaps you should save your celebrations till you get all of your information. There are about 36 facts to be proven and more than one about damages done to the parents and most were NOT proven.
Considering how many posters were claiming the mccanns would lose....this is fantastic news
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Considering how many posters were claiming the mccanns would lose....this is fantastic news
You haven't figured it out yet? They haven't won!!!! Continue with your delusions!!!
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Yes, sheds a very different light on the situation than is being touted on here.
no it doesn't...that's where I got my earlier quote from....it is proved that the book damaged the mccanns
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You haven't figured it out yet? They haven't won!!!! Continue with your delusions!!!
Damage has been proven in several instances. Can you not read?
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http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post320999.html
Thank you to Astro for the information.
Why start at number 11. Bet 1 to 10 don't suit. No 18, 19, 20 & 23.
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13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
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13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
yes but..no..but
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You haven't figured it out yet? They haven't won!!!! Continue with your delusions!!!
Thank you Montclair. So the McCanns have lost the case then. What is the next step?
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Don't worry sceptics, Blacksmith will be along shortly to soothe your furrowed brows with his unique spin on today's events - basically the McCanns are toast, or something like that. @)(++(*
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13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
You forgot to add the following statement from the judge:
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
BTW, the lawyers can now present their written allegations with regard to these facts and then the verdict will be given in about two months.
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You forgot to add the following statement from the judge:
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
BTW, the lawyers can now present their written allegations with regard to these facts and then the verdict will be given in about two months.
you are so gullible....who do you think added the words after i.e.....certainly not the judge
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You forgot to add the following statement from the judge:
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
BTW, the lawyers can now present their written allegations with regard to these facts and then the verdict will be given in about two months.
The following statement is just fluff. Was damage proven to have been caused by the book or not? YES. Nothing you can say changes that fact. Spin it any which way you want.
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You forgot to add the following statement from the judge:
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
BTW, the lawyers can now present their written allegations with regard to these facts and then the verdict will be given in about two months.
Did you not read that before posting?
Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
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Montclair you better inform leading Portuguese "sceptic" that she is wrong to be tweeting this then:
Joana Morais
@xklamation Court accepts as proven damages caused by Gonçalo Amaral's book to Kate and Gerry Mccann
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It's amazing how Diário de Notícias only reported one of the "facts" and none of the others which were not proven.
Could you elaborate?
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What does this mean?
Joana Morais @xklamation · 8 mins 8 minutes ago
The Maddie Case files proven and not proven post is a complete antithesis of the Lusa News Agency article posted in the PT media ..
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you are so gullible....who do you think added the words after i.e.....certainly not the judge
There were no journalists in the courtroom, so the only way they got there "information" was from one of the lawyers.
BTW, this statement was in the written document given by the judge to the lawyers, it wasn't made up.
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Could you elaborate?
Read the post with the link from The Maddie Case Files, perhaps you will understand.
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Considering how many posters were claiming the mccanns would lose....this is fantastic news
I beg to differ with you on that point.
If indeed it turns out the McCanns have (substantially) won, we should reflect on what that victory represents, realisation that many of the people the McCanns relied on most heavily to help them find Madeleine double-crossed and betrayed them most cruelly.
What kind of a "victory" would that be?
Scarcely one to send them performing celebratory cart-wheels down the street ...
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The usual conflicting views on here leave me unclear as to what it all means.
The McCanns appear to have won one or two points, but lost rather more.
How this will affect any award remains to be seen.
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The usual conflicting views on here leave me unclear as to what it all means.
The McCanns appear to have won one or two points, but lost rather more.
How this will affect any award remains to be seen.
All the proven seem to have riders. Doesn't actually go into the free speech arguments so I would put this as a loss for the McCanns.
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The usual conflicting views on here leave me unclear as to what it all means.
The McCanns appear to have won one or two points, but lost rather more.
How this will affect any award remains to be seen.
According to the Portuguese media (and not some partisan blog) Amaral's book has been proven to have caused damage to the McCanns, that is the only fact that really matters at the moment. Whether that translates into damages (as in Amaral having to pay out) remains to be seen. In the topsy-turvy world of Portuguese justice I wouldn't want to bet on any final outcome at this stage. But things are certainly looking brighter for the McCanns now which I'm sure you'll agree is good news. ?{)(**
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The usual conflicting views on here leave me unclear as to what it all means.
The McCanns appear to have won one or two points, but lost rather more.
How this will affect any award remains to be seen.
Well you can't really tell, when the poster starts at number 11. Then leaves out No's 18, 19, 20, 23, & 26
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According to the Portuguese media (and not some partisan blog) Amaral's book has been proven to have caused damage to the McCanns, that is the only fact that really matters at the moment. Whether that translates into damages (as in Amaral having to pay out) remains to be seen. In the topsy-turvy world of Portuguese justice I wouldn't want to bet on any final outcome at this stage. But things are certainly looking brighter for the McCanns now which I'm sure you'll agree is good news. ?{)(**
I really can't say whether things looker brighter or not for the McCanns, but their man will no doubt be along shortly to put a good spin on it.
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http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk
@)(++(*
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I really can't say whether things looker brighter or not for the McCanns, but their man will no doubt be along shortly to put a good spin on it.
If Smiffy doesn't beat him to it!
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28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
The judge does note that some of the facts in the book are not complete, and some facts that are in the book are not in the case files, including Jane Tanner's "informal" recognition of Robert Murat.
I hope the judge isn't trying to find that informal recognition, or we will be here another 10 years.
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Well you can't really tell, when the poster starts at number 11. Then leaves out No's 18, 19, 20, 23, & 26
Yes, that really is very fishy indeed... &%+((£
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http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk
@)(++(*
Talk of the Devil... @)(++(*
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28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
The judge does note that some of the facts in the book are not complete, and some facts that are in the book are not in the case files, including Jane Tanner's "informal" recognition of Robert Murat.
I hope the judge isn't trying to find that informal recognition, or we will be here another 10 years.
I would say the key bit there is not in the case files.
ie Jane Tanner's "informal recognition" of Robert Murat is not in the case files ...
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I really can't say whether things looker brighter or not for the McCanns, but their man will no doubt be along shortly to put a good spin on it.
Yeah ... maybe their man will be able to answer DCI's query about where ... No's 1 to 10 disappeared to ... also where No's 18, 19, 20, 23, & 26 are.
Must admit to a certain curiosity about it myself.
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Yes, that really is very fishy indeed... &%+((£
Martin Brunt @skymartinbrunt · 28m 28 minutes ago
#Madeleine Lisbon judge rules ex-cop's book caused McCanns hurt and emotional distress. From private hearing ahead of libel judgement
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I would say the key bit there is not in the case files.
ie Jane Tanner's "informal recognition" of Robert Murat is not in the case files ...
I was being sarcastic FM lol.
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2. The cover price of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” in Portugal is € 13.80, including VAT?
It is proved that the editor set the selling price at 13,33 euro, including VAT.
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than € 621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than € 498.750,00?
(Items 3&4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned 342.111,86 euro from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
It seems that Gonçalo Amaral earned a lot less than the McCanns claimed he did and this info is from Mr. Taxman.
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Yeah ... maybe their man will be able to answer DCI's query about where ... No's 1 to 10 disappeared to ... also where No's 18, 19, 20, 23, & 26 are.
Must admit to a certain curiosity about it myself.
Oh I see they are being posted now 8((()*/
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2. The cover price of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” in Portugal is € 13.80, including VAT?
It is proved that the editor set the selling price at 13,33 euro, including VAT.
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than € 621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than € 498.750,00?
(Items 3&4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned 342.111,86 euro from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
It seems that Gonçalo Amaral earned a lot less than the McCanns claimed he did and this info is from Mr. Taxman.
Yes after a court order to get them. You said he had handed them over. Did he kept accounts?
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5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved.
6. The DVD has a cover price of € 6,00?
Proved that it was sold for 6,95 euro with newspaper Correio daManhã.
7. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the DVD an amount that is not less than € 112.500,00?
Proved that he earned 40.000 euro from DVD sales in 2008. Based on info from the Revenue Service.
To be continued
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So,the book didnt harm the search nor cause Kate a deep depression &%&£(+
Does anyone know if the McCann's were allowed to make a claim for Madeleine after-all? (ward of court issue)
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I was being sarcastic FM lol.
Beg your pardon.
I am sometimes slow to catch up on irony ...
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Why the close focus on Gonc's earnings from the book and the video if there isn't a strong likelihood of him having to part with some or all of it at some point in the near future...?
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I imagine that it had to be established as part of the process irrespective of outcome.
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So,the book didnt harm the search nor cause Kate a deep depression &%&£(+
Does anyone know if the McCann's were allowed to make a claim for Madeleine after-all? (ward of court issue)
The McCanns have 30 days, as from today, to present the documentation from the High Court which authorises them to represent Madeleine in the court case.
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Why the close focus on Gonc's earnings from the book and the video if there isn't a strong likelihood of him having to part with some or all of it at some point in the near future...?
In any court case, the lawyers for all of the parties and the judge get together beforehand and discuss and decide which facts must be proven and the amount of his earnings was one of the "quesitos".
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The McCanns have 30 days, as from today, to present the documentation from the High Court which authorises them to represent Madeleine in the court case.
What's your source for that?
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The McCanns have 30 days, as from today, to present the documentation from the High Court which authorises them to represent Madeleine in the court case.
I'm sure it's all ready!
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So,the book didnt harm the search nor cause Kate a deep depression &%&£(+
Does anyone know if the McCann's were allowed to make a claim for Madeleine after-all? (ward of court issue)
http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/ (http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/)
Maddie case: Court gives as proven Gonçalo Amaral of damage to McCann
The court gave this Wednesday, day 21, as proved that the book of former Inspector of Judicial Police (PJ) Gonçalo Amaral, entitled "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie", caused damage to the parents of Madeleine McCann, missing British child in 2007, in the Algarve.
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged.
These elements were given as proven at trial, which began in October 2013, and will be considered for the preparation of the decision that will be communicated to the parties soon, but that has no due date.
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.
Because according to the defense of the parents of the missing child to May 3, 2007, the book was given as ready three days after the prosecutor of the Republic of Portimão, Magalhães Menezes, had written the order of termination of proceedings against the McCanns dated notification of July 29, 2008.
In preparing the book, in which the former coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ in Portimão defended the thesis that Madeleine's parents were involved in the disappearance and concealment of the corpse of the child, the lawyer of the British family, Isabel Duarte, maintained that Gonçalo Amaral used unauthorized and prohibited pleadings.
The same source also pointed out that the judgment of this process sessions at the Palace of Justice in Lisbon, allowed the judge to conclude that the information contained in the book are presented "some truncated, incomplete or other missing him."
This process creeps in court for over five years, with successive postponements of trial sessions and an attempted extrajudicial settlement between the parties, which was never realized.
In 2010, in the judgment of the book sales ban and the video with the same title, produced after documentary broadcast on TVI, the court decided to keep out of the market the two products that had been injunction target of temporary withdrawal.
In October 2010, the Lisbon Court of Relationship annulled the sale prohibition sentence of the book and the video and the British couple appealed to the Supreme Court, which rejected examine the use, in March 2011.
Madeleine McCann disappeared when he was four years in the tourist village of Aldeia da Luz, near Portimao, where the family was on vacation.
Kate and Gerry McCann have always maintained the position that Maddie was abducted. The case was recently reopened by prosecutors
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http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk
@)(++(*
Blacksmith..in denial to the end...probably close the bureau now
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The McCanns have 30 days, as from today, to present the documentation from the High Court which authorises them to represent Madeleine in the court case.
thank you Montclair
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http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/ (http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/)
Maddie case: Court gives as proven Gonçalo Amaral of damage to McCann
The court gave this Wednesday, day 21, as proved that the book of former Inspector of Judicial Police (PJ) Gonçalo Amaral, entitled "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie", caused damage to the parents of Madeleine McCann, missing British child in 2007, in the Algarve.
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged.
These elements were given as proven at trial, which began in October 2013, and will be considered for the preparation of the decision that will be communicated to the parties soon, but that has no due date.
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.
Because according to the defense of the parents of the missing child to May 3, 2007, the book was given as ready three days after the prosecutor of the Republic of Portimão, Magalhães Menezes, had written the order of termination of proceedings against the McCanns dated notification of July 29, 2008.
In preparing the book, in which the former coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ in Portimão defended the thesis that Madeleine's parents were involved in the disappearance and concealment of the corpse of the child, the lawyer of the British family, Isabel Duarte, maintained that Gonçalo Amaral used unauthorized and prohibited pleadings.
The same source also pointed out that the judgment of this process sessions at the Palace of Justice in Lisbon, allowed the judge to conclude that the information contained in the book are presented "some truncated, incomplete or other missing him."
This process creeps in court for over five years, with successive postponements of trial sessions and an attempted extrajudicial settlement between the parties, which was never realized.
In 2010, in the judgment of the book sales ban and the video with the same title, produced after documentary broadcast on TVI, the court decided to keep out of the market the two products that had been injunction target of temporary withdrawal.
In October 2010, the Lisbon Court of Relationship annulled the sale prohibition sentence of the book and the video and the British couple appealed to the Supreme Court, which rejected examine the use, in March 2011.
Madeleine McCann disappeared when he was four years in the tourist village of Aldeia da Luz, near Portimao, where the family was on vacation.
Kate and Gerry McCann have always maintained the position that Maddie was abducted. The case was recently reopened by prosecutors
Martin Brunt @skymartinbrunt
#Madeleine Believed judge ruled some McCann claims not proved, includes claim Port police stopped looking for Madeleine after book published
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The newspaper reports are a perfect example of how the press works these days in order to manipulate people's opinion. They report one and only a part of the "quesito" to give the impression that the judge agrees that Gonçalo Amaral has damaged the parents. The press would never dare report the rest of the document which shows the opposite from what they have reported.
They can manipulate opinion but the verdict is what counts in the end. PR is what has always been important for the McCanns since the very beginning.
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The newspaper reports are a perfect example of how the press works these days in order to manipulate people's opinion. They report one and only a part of the "quesito" to give the impression that the judge agrees that Gonçalo Amaral has damaged the parents. The press would never dare report the rest of the document which shows the opposite from what they have reported.
They can manipulate opinion but the verdict is what counts in the end. PR is what has always been important for the McCanns since the very beginning.
What has the PT press to gain from manipulating Portuguse opinion in this case, pray tell?
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http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/ (http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/)
Maddie case: Court gives as proven Gonçalo Amaral of damage to McCann
The court gave this Wednesday, day 21, as proved that the book of former Inspector of Judicial Police (PJ) Gonçalo Amaral, entitled "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie", caused damage to the parents of Madeleine McCann, missing British child in 2007, in the Algarve.
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged.
These elements were given as proven at trial, which began in October 2013, and will be considered for the preparation of the decision that will be communicated to the parties soon, but that has no due date.
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.[/color]
Because according to the defense of the parents of the missing child to May 3, 2007, the book was given as ready three days after the prosecutor of the Republic of Portimão, Magalhães Menezes, had written the order of termination of proceedings against the McCanns dated notification of July 29, 2008.
In preparing the book, in which the former coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ in Portimão defended the thesis that Madeleine's parents were involved in the disappearance and concealment of the corpse of the child, the lawyer of the British family, Isabel Duarte, maintained that Gonçalo Amaral used unauthorized and prohibited pleadings.
The same source also pointed out that the judgment of this process sessions at the Palace of Justice in Lisbon, allowed the judge to conclude that the information contained in the book are presented "some truncated, incomplete or other missing him."
This process creeps in court for over five years, with successive postponements of trial sessions and an attempted extrajudicial settlement between the parties, which was never realized.
In 2010, in the judgment of the book sales ban and the video with the same title, produced after documentary broadcast on TVI, the court decided to keep out of the market the two products that had been injunction target of temporary withdrawal.
In October 2010, the Lisbon Court of Relationship annulled the sale prohibition sentence of the book and the video and the British couple appealed to the Supreme Court, which rejected examine the use, in March 2011.
Madeleine McCann disappeared when he was four years in the tourist village of Aldeia da Luz, near Portimao, where the family was on vacation.
Kate and Gerry McCann have always maintained the position that Maddie was abducted. The case was recently reopened by prosecutors
Isn't this a criminal offence....is amaral still the subject of a suspended sentence.....
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The newspaper reports are a perfect example of how the press works these days in order to manipulate people's opinion. They report one and only a part of the "quesito" to give the impression that the judge agrees that Gonçalo Amaral has damaged the parents. The press would never dare report the rest of the document which shows the opposite from what they have reported.
They can manipulate opinion but the verdict is what counts in the end. PR is what has always been important for the McCanns since the very beginning.
That is so true.
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What has the PT press to gain from manipulating Portuguse opinion in this case, pray tell?
There were no journalists at the court today and they just print the press release from interested parties. Lazy journalism everywhere these days.
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The newspaper reports are a perfect example of how the press works these days in order to manipulate people's opinion. They report one and only a part of the "quesito" to give the impression that the judge agrees that Gonçalo Amaral has damaged the parents. The press would never dare report the rest of the document which shows the opposite from what they have reported.
They can manipulate opinion but the verdict is what counts in the end. PR is what has always been important for the McCanns since the very beginning.
in denial
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There were no journalists at the court today and they just print the press release from interested parties. Lazy journalism everywhere these days.
What specifically have they printed today then that is inaccurate?
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The newspaper reports are a perfect example of how the press works these days in order to manipulate people's opinion. They report one and only a part of the "quesito" to give the impression that the judge agrees that Gonçalo Amaral has damaged the parents. The press would never dare report the rest of the document which shows the opposite from what they have reported.
They can manipulate opinion but the verdict is what counts in the end. PR is what has always been important for the McCanns since the very beginning.
Same, no doubt, as the woman at the trial who said most of Amaral's book is made up was being "ironic" ...
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Well reading between the lines, it looks like the McCann's are up shitte creak without a paddle in their search for money.
What a shame. 8)--))
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The whole Portuguese judicial system is probably in on it...
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Isn't this a criminal offence....is amaral still the subject of a suspended sentence.....
That is indeed a criminal offence, although (I think) his suspended sentence has now expired.
Not entirely sure on that second point ...
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That is indeed a criminal offence, although (I think) his suspended sentence has now expired.
Not entirely sure on that second point ...
Yes expired, he was sentenced in 2009 to 18 months suspended.
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Isn't this a criminal offence....is amaral still the subject of a suspended sentence.....
Perhaps not considered in the public interest - if the Portuguese have such a thing.
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Perhaps not considered in the public interest - if the Portuguese have such a thing.
I think, in Portugal, it's a statute of limitations. Once that expires, you can't be prosecuted.
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13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
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So a contributory factor, rather than the sole cause.
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So a contributory factor, rather than the sole cause.
As the judge stated the psychological condition was pre-existent.
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Blacksmith..in denial to the end...probably close the bureau now
In denial Dave ?
It's you and your fellows trying to put the gloss on what thge judge has said.
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Is it omitted or just not reported?
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Is it omitted or just not reported?
Not reported by Astro, but surely ruled on ...
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As I understand from what Jean-Pierre has said, if damages awarded are less than the amount sought, Kate and Gerry will cop Amaral's legal expenses as well as their own.
I guess much hinges on those points considered in today's proceedings we just don't know anything about.
Most odd that huge swathes of the judgment has simply been omitted.
Almost suspicious, I would say ...
Not sure that is correct. I thought it was to do with turning down an offer from The Defendant, and not a question of the damages first sought.
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Not sure that is correct. I thought it was to do with turning down an offer from The Defendant, and not a question of the damages first sought.
You may well be right. My recollection on the point is hazy.
Although the defendants may well have made an offer the McCanns turned down?
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As the judge stated the psychological condition was pre-existent.
but damage was also proven to have been caused by the book. It's there in black and white.
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but damage was also proven to have been caused by the book. It's there in black and white.
Read again.
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You may well be right. My recollection on the point is hazy.
Although the defendants may well have made an offer the McCanns turned down?
He might well have done. But there was a reluctance to talk about that at the time.
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You may well be right. My recollection on the point is hazy.
Although the defendants may well have made an offer the McCanns turned down?
The McCanns asked for a settlement not the defendants.
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The McCanns have 30 days, as from today, to present the documentation from the High Court which authorises them to represent Madeleine in the court case.
You said they had 30 days to present the same documents, last Year.
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As I understand from what Jean-Pierre has said, if damages awarded are less than the amount sought, Kate and Gerry will cop Amaral's legal expenses as well as their own.
I guess much hinges on those points considered in today's proceedings we just don't know anything about.
Most odd that huge swathes of the judgment has simply been omitted.
Almost suspicious, I would say ...
The Judgement comes later. Drs McCann still have 30 days to provide evidence they had authority to act on behalf of Madeleine provided they have not done so already.
As the "Matters of Fact" were not read out publicly, allegedly, I expect each side will polish the little bits it likes best of those that fall off the table. 8(>((
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The McCanns asked for a settlement not the defendants.
Thank heaven for that. So it won't affect the final payout.
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The Judgement comes later. Drs McCann still have 30 days to provide evidence they had authority to act on behalf of Madeleine provided they have not done so already.
As the "Matters of Fact" were not read out publicly, allegedly, I expect each side will polish the little bits it likes best of those that fall off the table. 8(>((
If they had 30 days last year to provide them, I would say the statements of 30 days from today is BS.
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Thank heaven for that. So it won't affect the final payout.
What payout ?
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As I understand from what Jean-Pierre has said, if damages awarded are less than the amount sought, Kate and Gerry will cop Amaral's legal expenses as well as their own.
I guess much hinges on those points considered in today's proceedings we just don't know anything about.
Most odd that huge swathes of the judgment has simply been omitted.
Almost suspicious, I would say ...
Don't thin k the McCanns will have to pay amaral's legal expenses...remember they sought and offered an out of court settlement and as I posted at the time...this goes in their favour when costs are awarded
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If they had 30 days last year to provide them, I would say the statements of 30 days from today is BS.
Quite possibly Freddie DCI. But the press does seem somewhat imprecise on this matter and as is well shown in this forum I don't know A from a bulls foot 8(0(*
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Don't thin k the McCanns will have to pay amaral's legal expenses...remember they sought and offered an out of court settlement and as I posted at the time...this goes in their favour when costs are awarded
Do you mean an out of court settlement in their favour ?
That won't wash in Portugal, judging by what's happened.
So Dave, as to your predictions ........
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The McCanns asked for a settlement not the defendants.
a very clever move by the mccanns ..as I pointed out at the time....the judge will take this into account when deciding costs
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Do you mean an out of court settlement in their favour ?
That won't wash in Portugal, judging by what's happened.
So Dave, as to your predictions ........
my predictions...total humiliation for amaral
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my predictions...total humiliation for amaral
WRONG as usual.
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WRONG as usual.
In denial........I wondered how this would be spun...and now I know...if there were twenty points and only 4 have been proved ...amaral wins 16...4...absolutely brilliant....so amaral has won...someone needs to tell him
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* *&*%£ *&*%£
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I'll tell you in two letters how much money the McCann will get from Amaral and the rest of the defendants.
F.A. *&*%£
and you can take that to the bank. 8)--))
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In denial........I wondered how this would be spun...and now I know...if there were twenty points and only 4 have been proved ...amaral wins 16...4...absolutely brilliant....so amaral has won...someone needs to tell him
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* *&*%£ *&*%£
If your figures were right, it would hardly be a resounding win. We need to see how it will translate into any settlement.
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If your figures were right, it would hardly be a resounding win.
I've spun it for you...problem is in reality it's like this...
you are accused of 20 murders and only found guilty of 4...is that a result
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Quite possibly Freddie DCI. But the press does seem somewhat imprecise on this matter and as is well shown in this forum I don't know A from a bulls foot 8(0(*
I didn't say the press, it was Montclair.
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I've spun it for you...problem is in reality it's like this...
you are accused of 20 murders and only found guilty of 4...is that a result
Not really the same thing at all. Not all the different points have equal value.
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Not really the same thing at all. Not all the different points have equal value.
so do you think this is a good result for amaral
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Don't know as I haven't seen all the judgement, nor seen what the final outcome will be.
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Don't know as I haven't seen all the judgement, nor seen what the final outcome will be.
Well I have seen enough to know it's very bad for amaral....as I predicted
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These points (including the ones not filled in) presented for us by Astro represent tip of the iceberg.
Huge swathes of the judgment considered proved simply don't appear at all in the document astro produced
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged.
These elements were given as proven at trial, which began in October 2013, and will be considered for the preparation of the decision that will be communicated to the parties soon, but that has no due date.
What Astro produced is in addition to that already proved, some of (the additional) material also proved; some not.
Net result: Amaral has lost ...
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These points (including the ones not filled in) presented for us by Astro represent tip of the iceberg.
Huge swathes of the judgment considered proved simply don't appear at all in the document astro produced
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged.
These elements were given as proven at trial, which began in October 2013, and will be considered for the preparation of the decision that will be communicated to the parties soon, but that has no due date.
What Astro produced is in addition to that already proved, some of (the additional) material also proved; some not.
Net result: Amaral has lost ...
Nope.
Now let's see how much money the McCann's get.
and you know the answer to that one. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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That will certainly be the measure of success or otherwise.
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These points (including the ones not filled in) presented for us by Astro represent tip of the iceberg.
Huge swathes of the judgment considered proved simply don't appear at all in the document astro produced
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged.
These elements were given as proven at trial, which began in October 2013, and will be considered for the preparation of the decision that will be communicated to the parties soon, but that has no due date.
What Astro produced is in addition to that already proved, some of (the additional) material also proved; some not.
Net result: Amaral has lost ...
I presume those are included in the 12 missing parts.
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Oh My goodness, a lot of rolly faces...rolling and lolloing all over the forum. Is it somebody's birthday?
The McCanns have not 'won' anything- they lost a lot of support when they took this case on using 'fund' money.
So, where Clarry darling declaring Amaral has lost? Hmm eh? Oh gosh, he is not on the late news telling us about the parents being exonerated.
Maybe the 'friend of the family' is in the counting house - counting all the money they have made from a little girls demise..
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I presume those are included in the 12 missing parts.
I think that much was considered proven from written submissions before the trial commenced.
But you may be right.
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That will certainly be the measure of success or otherwise.
I expect the mccanns to receive damages...Duarte seems to have none a brilliant job...don't know how much that will be but to me what's most important is that amaral has lost his case...any money will simply be paid into the fund
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I expect the mccanns to receive damages...Duarte seems to have none a brilliant job...don't know how much that will be but to me what's most important is that amaral has lost his case...any money will simply be paid into the fund
...and how do you come to that conclusion given the judge has said the McCanns were upset at the contents of the book"which is normal" (to be upset) but that the book did not cause the 'suffering' they claimed. I don't know how they can claim monies on behalf of Maddie as her where about is 'unknown'. The judge cannot make an award to someone who may be dead.
It is interesting that after being 'missing' for more than 7 years she could be declared dead legally. There is also the claim for the twins- they were not represented by their own lawyer or independent Psychologist/Psychiatrist.
They also failed to provide evidence of the search being affected...
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I expect the mccanns to receive damages...Duarte seems to have none a brilliant job...don't know how much that will be but to me what's most important is that amaral has lost his case...any money will simply be paid into the fund
Keep wishing Dave.
Since that is all you have left. 8((()*/
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...and how do you come to that conclusion given the judge has said the McCanns were upset at the contents of the book"which is normal" (to be upset) but that the book did not cause the 'suffering' they claimed. I don't know how they can claim monies on behalf of Maddie as her where about is 'unknown'. The judge cannot make an award to someone who may be dead.
It is interesting that after being 'missing' for more than 7 years she could be declared dead legally. There is also the claim for the twins- they were not represented by their own lawyer or independent Psychologist/Psychiatrist.
They also failed to provide evidence of the search being affected...
I don't believe the judge said ...i.e. that is normal...more likely that phrase was added by the translator
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I don't believe the judge said ...i.e. that is normal...more likely that phrase was added by the translator
I don't think so Davel, i will tell you why.
During the hearing The judge asked Kate what was worse: ....)
Why did she ask that question do you think?
And what should the answer have been?
For me the answer would have been -"the worst thing for me was what has happened to my daughter" My life will never be the same- I also live with the terrible guilt of not being there to protect her"
But well the actual answer is well documented and the judge decided that losing the daughter was the real cause of the depression and not the contents of a book.
I think this was a money trick which went wrong for them. I wished they had never embarked on it. It has not brought them peace. Nor will the outcome affect the search for little Maddie!
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I don't think so Davel, i will tell you why.
During the hearing The judge asked Kate what was worse: ....)
Why did she ask that question do you think?
And what should the answer have been?
For me the answer would have been -"the worst thing for me was what has happened to my daughter" My life will never be the same- I also live with the terrible guilt of not being there to protect her"
But well the actual answer is well documented and the judge decided that losing the daughter was the real cause of the depression and not the contents of a book.
I think this was a money trick which went wrong for them. I wished they had never embarked on it. It has not brought them peace. Nor will the outcome affect the search for little Maddie!
What you think is totally unimportant...the fact is that it has been proved in a Portuguese court that amaral has caused damage to the mccanns..
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What you think is totally unimportant...the fact is that it has been proved in a Portuguese court that amaral has caused damage to the mccanns..
and the McCann's will get what they so richly deserve.
NOTHING.
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and the McCann's will get what they so richly deserve.
NOTHING.
money is not important as it will go straight into the fund...I expect they will get damages
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Anne Guedes
In a civil court, the facts that were gathered and considered as evidence by the judge, within the limits fixed for a trial, are normally not publicised, whereas in a penal court they have to be stated publicly.
This morning's session, which was no hearing, happened to be open to the public (reduced to 3 persons, me included, no journalist) just because, due the restructure of the juridical system that occurred end of August, the judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro has been nominated to another section and doesn't belong to this civil court anymore, having therefore no office in the Tribunal Civil de Lisboa. So she needed a court room to release to the lawyers the document she elaborated.
Only four lawyers were present :
For the claimants, Dr Ricardo Afonso (representing Dra Isabel Duarte)
For the defence, Dr Miguel Cruz Rodrigues, Dra Fatima de Oliveira Esteves, Dr Henrique Costa Pinto. Dr Miguel Coroadinha (TVI) was absent.
The Judge asked the lawyers to read the document in case they needed clarification on some points or had any objection, suggesting it wasn't definitive. In fact it is on this document that the lawyers who solicited it at the last hearing (all of them) will build their "allegations of law", i.e indicate how they would interpret the law on these topics. The judge left the court room, leaving the lawyers at their reading.
And so it happened.
A quarter of an hour later, the judge entered the room (through the witnesses', clerk's and lawyers' entrance and not through the judge's special entrance) and asked for observations.
The only lawyer who intervened was Dr Henrique Costa Pinto (Valentim de Carvalho Multimedia).
He found some contradiction concerning the article 17 and the green light to the DVD's production. He underlined that he was mentioning this issue informally. The judge explained that she took various sources into account and that commercializing is one thing and selling another. Therefore she thought it wasn't contradictory, but admitted that without the context it might let one think it was.
The other issue was related to the WOC issue. From this day on, the claimants have 30 days to hand over the London Court's authorization to have Madeleine McCann represented by her parents in this trial. Meanwhile the trial is suspended. After the 30 days delay, which of course can happen to be shorter, the lawyers will have ten days to hand in their "allegations of law".
This note is obviously my last contribution to the trial reports, as the sentence will be notified to each lawyer by mail.
Analyzing the terms of the sentence is another chapter.
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Amaral claimed in july 14 he would countersue the McCanns for damages...is he going barmy?
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Thank heaven for that. So it won't affect the final payout.
Yes thank heavens because it proves that Kate, via their Facebook webmistress, lied when she claimed that it was only a rumour that they were seeking to settle.
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Yes thank heavens because it proves that Kate, via their Facebook webmistress, lied when she claimed that it was only a rumour that they were seeking to settle.
another one of your unsubstantiated claims no doubt you just misunderstood the written word
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another one of your unsubstantiated claims no doubt you just misunderstood the written word
There is no misunderstanding. The webmistress answered, when asked if it was only a rumour that the McCanns were trying to settle with Amarsl, that she would have to consult Kate on the matter. Sometime later an email was received verifying that yes, it was only a rumour.
No wriggle room there.
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There is no misunderstanding. The webmistress answered, when asked if it was only a rumour that the McCanns were trying to settle with Amarsl, that she would have to consult Kate on the matter. Sometime later an email was received verifying that yes, it was only a rumour.
No wriggle room there.
You would need to supply the exact wording...who was the email from...the mccanns certainly were not trying to settle on amarals terms as blacksmith claimed...so does that make blacksmith a liar
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You would need to supply the exact wording...who was the email from...the mccanns certainly were not trying to settle on amarals terms as blacksmith claimed...so does that make blacksmith a liar
But it would have been on Amaral's terms. Thankfully he let justice take its course.
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But it would have been on Amaral's terms. Thankfully he let justice take its course.
Thankfully he did not settle which may very well make him liable for both sides legal fees.....blacksmith said the mccanns would settle on amarals terms...he lied
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John Blacksmith writes: #McCann s are going to settle on Amaral's terms & that means it's the beginning of the end of six years of lies....
So Blacksmith lied
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John Blacksmith writes: #McCann s are going to settle on Amaral's terms & that means it's the beginning of the end of six years of lies....
So Blacksmith lied
Was Blacksmith involved in the court proceedings ?
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Thankfully he did not settle which may very well make him liable for both sides legal fees.....blacksmith said the mccanns would settle on amarals terms...he lied
Then you will have to take that up with Blacksmith.
Meanwhile Kate, via their webmistress, claimed that they had not sought to settle the action. She lied.
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Then you will have to take that up with Blacksmith.
Meanwhile Kate, via their webmistress, claimed that they had not sought to settle the action. She lied.
I have provide quotes and exact words....now you must
.
[quote Blacksmith]
That pursuit has failed. The McCanns are going to settle on Amaral's terms and that means it's the beginning of the end of six years of lies and deception. No, I can't evoke even a touch of sympathy for them: they have acted wickedly and now they are going to pay.
what a pillock.... @)(++(* @)(++(*
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I have provide quotes and exact words....now you must
.
[quote Blacksmith]
That pursuit has failed. The McCanns are going to settle on Amaral's terms and that means it's the beginning of the end of six years of lies and deception. No, I can't evoke even a touch of sympathy for them: they have acted wickedly and now they are going to pay.
what a pillock.... @)(++(* @)(++(*
The McCanns sought a settlement with Amaral. If he had accepted, the suit would have been settled on his terms. Is that rosa,ly so hard to get your head around ?
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The McCanns sought a settlement with Amaral. If he had accepted, the suit would have been settled on his terms. Is that rosa,ly so hard to get your head around ?
it would not have been settled on his terms...are you suggesting amaral could have dictated the terms of settlement ...ridiculous
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amaral would have been offered terms like Bennett...was...dictated by the mccanns
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The McCanns sought a settlement with Amaral. If he had accepted, the suit would have been settled on his terms. Is that rosa,ly so hard to get your head around ?
What? This is completely nonsensical. Blacksmith explicitly predicted the McCanns would have to pay Amaral which was a load of old cobblers. As if the McCanns would ever sought that option. I've never heard such rubbish.
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it would not have been settled on his terms...are you suggesting amaral could have dictated the terms of settlement ...ridiculous
Of course. He was in a position of strength as his refusal to settle proves.
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What? This is completely nonsensical. Blacksmith explicitly predicted the McCanns would have to pay Amaral which was a load of old cobblers. As if the McCanns would ever sought that option. I've never heard such rubbish.
you need to spend more time on the forum...you will hear plenty of rubbish
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What? This is completely nonsensical. Blacksmith explicitly predicted the McCanns would have to pay Amaral which was a load of old cobblers. As if the McCanns would ever sought that option. I've never heard such rubbish.
Did he ? Care to provide a cite ?
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Of course. He was in a position of strength as his refusal to settle proves.
might prove it to someone as gullible as you...but not to me
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might prove it to someone as gullible as you...but not to me
You believe the McCanns had a strong case which would bring into the fund a cool 1.2 mi,lion euros. Money, let's not forget, to fund the 'search. Why would they attempt to settle if they believed they were on to a sure thing ?
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You believe the McCanns had a strong case which would bring into the fund a cool 1.2 mi,lion euros. Money, let's not forget, to fund the 'search. Why would they attempt to settle if they believed they were on to a sure thing ?
It's quite simple to those with some legal knowledge...even if the mccanns win..they could not guarantee amaral would have to pay costs....by trying to reach a settlement they have ensured amaral will be liable for their costs...happens all the time...courts really don't like having their time wasted
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If I were seeking confirmation that today's result was anything other than good news as far as Madeleine McCann's family is concerned ... it is contained in the posts from one or two posters which become more and more distracted as realisation begins to penetrate.
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It's quite simple to those with some legal knowledge...even if the mccanns won..which they have...they could not guarantee amaral would have to pay costs....by trying to reach a settlement they have ensured amaral will be liable for their costs...happens all the time...courts really don't like having their time wasted
in the UK the person being sued will try to seek an out of court settlement with the plaintiffs. If the plaintiffs refuse and the ultimate settlement is less than the defendant offered then the plaintiff can be made to pay the costs of both sides.
But we are talking about Portugal not the UK and the McCanns are the plaintiffs.
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If I were seeking confirmation that today's result was anything other than good news as far as Madeleine McCann's family is concerned ... it is contained in the posts from one or two posters which become more and more distracted as realisation begins to penetrate.
@)(++(* Absolutely, without a doubt, post of the week !
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in the UK the person being sued will try to seek an out of court settlement with the plaintiffs. If the plaintiffs refuse and the ultimate settlement is less than the defendant offered then the plaintiff can be made to pay the costs of both sides.
But we are talking about Portugal not the UK and the McCanns are the plaintiffs.
the sum can be suggested by either side...if amaral has declined to settle at x amount...he will be toast
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I would say the key bit there is not in the case files.
ie Jane Tanner's "informal recognition" of Robert Murat is not in the case files ...
It's her rog.
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http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/livro-de-inspector-da-judiciaria-prejudicou-casal-mccann-1682917
Thank you to themaddiecasefiles for translation.
Court says that it was not Gonçalo Amaral’s book which “destroyed” Maddie’s parents
by PEDRO SALES DIAS 21/01/2015 - 17:04 (updated 22:08)
The McCann couple took a civil action against the ex – inspector for defamation and damages caused by the publication of his book. They are claiming compensation of 1.2 million Euros.
This Wednesday, Lisbon Civil Court considered that it was not Gonçalo Amaral’s book “Maddie: The Truth of the Lie” which “destroyed” the parents of the English girl who disappeared from the Algarve on 3rd May 2007.
“It was not proven that Kate and Gerry McCann have been destroyed from the moral, social and ethical points of view. From the family’s point of view the evidence revealed a successful effort of cohesion and mutual help”, said the judge, emphasizing that “from the sentimental/emotional point of view, it is not credible that the sequel of the facts in these files would go as far as the destruction or even in excess of the pain caused by the disappearance of their daughter”.
The “negative emotional” state of the parents is “pre-existing to the book”, says the legal dispatch to which Público had access and which indicated the replies to the claims, the facts given as proven or not proven, before sentencing, in the civil case brought by the couple against the ex PJ inspector. The couple are claiming compensation of 1.2 million euros for defamation and damage caused by the book’s publication.
The judge estimates as not proven the social damages that the McCanns also claim to have suffered with the broadcast and sale of a DVD documentary and an interview with the ex – Portimão PJ coordinator. In the book, Amaral defends the supposed involvement of Kate and Gerry McCann in the disappearance and in the hiding of the girl’s body.
“Given the court dispatch in which no link has been proven between the book and alleged damage suffered by the couple, I do not expect anything other than the absolution of Gonçalo Amaral”,said his lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues to Público. Público tried to contact Isabel Duarte, the couple’s lawyer, without success. Gonçalo Amaral did not want to comment.
However, the court did not find as proven that “as a consequence of the defendant, Gonçalo Amaral’s statements in the book, documentary and interview”, that Maddie’s parents “felt anger, despair, anguish and worry, having suffered insomnia and lack of appetite”. This at the same time that it was proven that the facts mentioned by the ex – inspector in his book “are, in the majority, facts that occurred and which are documented” in the criminal investigation.
The legal dispatch also mentions various witnesses Heard by the court, some provided by Maddie McCann’s parents and who emphasise the harm that they consider was done to the couple. “Many people turned their backs on them”, after the publication of the book, said Susan Lorrain Hubbard, the wife of an English vicar and friend of the McCann family. Also Alan Pike, who offered the couple psychological support, “stated that the publication of the book and its conclusions left the couple with anguish and that one of the most devastating effects, for them, was the belief that the book would influence public opinion, leading to people stopping their search for Madeleine.
However, the court determined as not proven that due to the book, interview and documentary the PJ stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance. The court heard from PJ inspectors including Ricardo Paiva, an inspector who participated in the investigation of the disappearance and who emphasized that the “girl’s death was a hypothesis in the investigation”. Also the director of the National Anti-Terrorism Unit, Luís Neves, underlined that “the first time the death hypothesis was raised, the parents suggested the intervention of a South African specialist equipped with a machine to find buried bodies”.
The court emphasised that for the “majority of people” who had read the book, the thesis contained within it did not attribute “responsibilities” to the McCann for their daughter’s death, but rather that they had “responsibilities for hiding her body”.
Maddies’ parents were made arguidos during the investigation into her disappearance which was archived in 2008 due to lack of evidence that a crime had occurred. The investigation was re-opened in October 2013 following a proposal from the PJ and given new elements that justified continuing with the investigation.
(Article updated at 22.08. It replaces the Lusa article entitled “Court decides as proven the damage caused by Gonçalo Amaral to Kate and Gerry McCann”, published in Público news).
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Amaral claimed in july 14 he would countersue the McCanns for damages...is he going barmy?
It's not Amaral going barmy with the judgement, but I know who is. 8((()*/
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It's quite simple to those with some legal knowledge...even if the mccanns win...they could not guarantee amaral would have to pay costs....by trying to reach a settlement they have ensured amaral will be liable for their costs...happens all the time...courts really don't like having their time wasted
It is the mccanns who have wasted the courts times with their spurious claims.
You can guarantee the Amaral and the other parties involved will be seeking costs for legal expenses incurred.
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http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/livro-de-inspector-da-judiciaria-prejudicou-casal-mccann-1682917
Thank you to themaddiecasefiles for translation.
Court says that it was not Gonçalo Amaral’s book which “destroyed” Maddie’s parents
by PEDRO SALES DIAS 21/01/2015 - 17:04 (updated 22:08)
The McCann couple took a civil action against the ex – inspector for defamation and damages caused by the publication of his book. They are claiming compensation of 1.2 million Euros.
This Wednesday, Lisbon Civil Court considered that it was not Gonçalo Amaral’s book “Maddie: The Truth of the Lie” which “destroyed” the parents of the English girl who disappeared from the Algarve on 3rd May 2007.
“It was not proven that Kate and Gerry McCann have been destroyed from the moral, social and ethical points of view. From the family’s point of view the evidence revealed a successful effort of cohesion and mutual help”, said the judge, emphasizing that “from the sentimental/emotional point of view, it is not credible that the sequel of the facts in these files would go as far as the destruction or even in excess of the pain caused by the disappearance of their daughter”.
The “negative emotional” state of the parents is “pre-existing to the book”, says the legal dispatch to which Público had access and which indicated the replies to the claims, the facts given as proven or not proven, before sentencing, in the civil case brought by the couple against the ex PJ inspector. The couple are claiming compensation of 1.2 million euros for defamation and damage caused by the book’s publication.
The judge estimates as not proven the social damages that the McCanns also claim to have suffered with the broadcast and sale of a DVD documentary and an interview with the ex – Portimão PJ coordinator. In the book, Amaral defends the supposed involvement of Kate and Gerry McCann in the disappearance and in the hiding of the girl’s body.
“Given the court dispatch in which no link has been proven between the book and alleged damage suffered by the couple, I do not expect anything other than the absolution of Gonçalo Amaral”,said his lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues to Público. Público tried to contact Isabel Duarte, the couple’s lawyer, without success. Gonçalo Amaral did not want to comment.
However, the court did not find as proven that “as a consequence of the defendant, Gonçalo Amaral’s statements in the book, documentary and interview”, that Maddie’s parents “felt anger, despair, anguish and worry, having suffered insomnia and lack of appetite”. This at the same time that it was proven that the facts mentioned by the ex – inspector in his book “are, in the majority, facts that occurred and which are documented” in the criminal investigation.
The legal dispatch also mentions various witnesses Heard by the court, some provided by Maddie McCann’s parents and who emphasise the harm that they consider was done to the couple. “Many people turned their backs on them”, after the publication of the book, said Susan Lorrain Hubbard, the wife of an English vicar and friend of the McCann family. Also Alan Pike, who offered the couple psychological support, “stated that the publication of the book and its conclusions left the couple with anguish and that one of the most devastating effects, for them, was the belief that the book would influence public opinion, leading to people stopping their search for Madeleine.
However, the court determined as not proven that due to the book, interview and documentary the PJ stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance. The court heard from PJ inspectors including Ricardo Paiva, an inspector who participated in the investigation of the disappearance and who emphasized that the “girl’s death was a hypothesis in the investigation”. Also the director of the National Anti-Terrorism Unit, Luís Neves, underlined that “the first time the death hypothesis was raised, the parents suggested the intervention of a South African specialist equipped with a machine to find buried bodies”.
The court emphasised that for the “majority of people” who had read the book, the thesis contained within it did not attribute “responsibilities” to the McCann for their daughter’s death, but rather that they had “responsibilities for hiding her body”.
Maddies’ parents were made arguidos during the investigation into her disappearance which was archived in 2008 due to lack of evidence that a crime had occurred. The investigation was re-opened in October 2013 following a proposal from the PJ and given new elements that justified continuing with the investigation.
(Article updated at 22.08. It replaces the Lusa article entitled “Court decides as proven the damage caused by Gonçalo Amaral to Kate and Gerry McCann”, published in Público news).
And that's Team Amaral's version of events - nice bit of spin there!
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I wondered how they could possibly spin the bad news and now we know....be interesting to see what happens at the full verdict. Remember many on here had claimed that the McCcanns had failed to prove anything
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I wondered how they could possibly spin the bad news and now we know....be interesting to see what happens at the full verdict. Remember many on here had claimed that the McCcanns had failed to prove anything
The bad news is for the mccanns.
Get real.
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And so begins two months of further argument about yesterdays words in court and what they tell us about who will win what *girds loins*
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And so begins two months of further argument about yesterdays words in court and what they tell us about who will win what *girds loins*
There is no argument.
It was clear cut.
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There is no argument.
It was clear cut.
So there won't be any arguing on here about what was said and what was meant? Is that your view? @)(++(*
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There is no argument.
It was clear cut.
When has that ever stopped argument?
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Come on now, what was said by the judge in court yesterday was the complete opposite of clear cut, we can surely agree on that?!
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Come on now, what was said by the judge in court yesterday was the complete opposite of clear cut, we can surely agree on that?!
The lawyers for the defense pretty well concluded that it was clear cut.
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The lawyers for the defense pretty well concluded that it was clear cut.
Well they would say that, wouldn't they?
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Thank you Mandy, just what I was going to say. 8)--))
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Thank you Mandy, just what I was going to say. 8)--))
Love it. 8@??)(
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Love it. 8@??)(
What's not to love? ... shame it took so long ...
McCanns get favourable ruling over ex-cop Amaral
IN NEWS · 22-01-2015 08:40:00 · 0 COMMENTS
A Lisbon Court last night ruled in favour of the parents of missing British toddler Madeleine McCann in their libel suit against former Portuguese police detective Gonçalo Amaral.
Kate and Gerry McCann instituted legal proceedings in 2010, seeking damages of one million pounds against Amaral who oversaw the first six months of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
During yesterday’s ruling, which the McCanns did not attend, Judge Emília Melo e Castro revealed that direct "emotional" damage had been caused by Amaral’s book, The Truth of the Lie, and also ruled that the former detective had breached Portugal’s strict secrecy laws.
However, the judge also found that "it had not been proven that Kate and Gerry McCann were destroyed from a moral, social and ethical point of view", but said that the publication of the book by Amaral resulted in the couple "feeling anger, despair, anxious, worried and suffered sleepless nights and experienced a lack of apetite."
Newspaper reports have also since stated the couple's reputation had already been damaged prior to the book's release, which might be seen as factor which could substantially reduce and pay-outs should the court decide money should change hands.
A final ruling is expected to take about 30 days before being read out.
http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
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What's not to love? ... shame it took so long ...
McCanns get favourable ruling over ex-cop Amaral
IN NEWS · 22-01-2015 08:40:00 · 0 COMMENTS
A Lisbon Court last night ruled in favour of the parents of missing British toddler Madeleine McCann in their libel suit against former Portuguese police detective Gonçalo Amaral.
Kate and Gerry McCann instituted legal proceedings in 2010, seeking damages of one million pounds against Amaral who oversaw the first six months of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
During yesterday’s ruling, which the McCanns did not attend, Judge Emília Melo e Castro revealed that direct "emotional" damage had been caused by Amaral’s book, The Truth of the Lie, and also ruled that the former detective had breached Portugal’s strict secrecy laws.
However, the judge also found that "it had not been proven that Kate and Gerry McCann were destroyed from a moral, social and ethical point of view", but said that the publication of the book by Amaral resulted in the couple "feeling anger, despair, anxious, worried and suffered sleepless nights and experienced a lack of apetite."
Newspaper reports have also since stated the couple's reputation had already been damaged prior to the book's release, which might be seen as factor which could substantially reduce and pay-outs should the court decide money should change hands.
A final ruling is expected to take about 30 days before being read out.
http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
Ruled in favour ?
In your dreams.
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http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/2015_01_21_casal_destruido_antes_de_livro.html
The Couple were destroyed before the book
Judge says that damages caused to the parents by the book about the Maddie case were not proven.
By Magali Pinto
The judge, Emilia Melo e Castro, who is deciding on the civil case which opposes Maddie's parents and Gonçalo Amaral, ex-PJ investigator, concluded that "it was not proven that Kate and Gerry were destroyed morally, socially or ethically", despite considering that with the publication of the book "A Verdade da Mentira" by Amaral, the couple "felt rage, despair, anguish, worry, suffered insomnia and lack of appetite".These are some of the facts proven in the judicial action of the parents of Madeleine, the child who disappeared in May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Algarve, when she was 3 years old - where they demand compensation of 1.2 million Euros.
The McCann couple consider that the book, which defends the thesis that the parents were directly connected to the child's disappearance "shocking and an affront to the family".
The judge has not yet called a date for the verdict in the civil case.
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What's not to love? ... shame it took so long ...
McCanns get favourable ruling over ex-cop Amaral
IN NEWS · 22-01-2015 08:40:00 · 0 COMMENTS
A Lisbon Court last night ruled in favour of the parents of missing British toddler Madeleine McCann in their libel suit against former Portuguese police detective Gonçalo Amaral.
Kate and Gerry McCann instituted legal proceedings in 2010, seeking damages of one million pounds against Amaral who oversaw the first six months of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
During yesterday’s ruling, which the McCanns did not attend, Judge Emília Melo e Castro revealed that direct "emotional" damage had been caused by Amaral’s book, The Truth of the Lie, and also ruled that the former detective had breached Portugal’s strict secrecy laws.
However, the judge also found that "it had not been proven that Kate and Gerry McCann were destroyed from a moral, social and ethical point of view", but said that the publication of the book by Amaral resulted in the couple "feeling anger, despair, anxious, worried and suffered sleepless nights and experienced a lack of apetite."
Newspaper reports have also since stated the couple's reputation had already been damaged prior to the book's release, which might be seen as factor which could substantially reduce and pay-outs should the court decide money should change hands.
A final ruling is expected to take about 30 days before being read out.
http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
If you put all the reports together its fairly easy to see exactly what has happened...although some on here won't accept the truth. this article seems the most balanced. The judge has ruled that the book did cause damages but that it was not the sole cause of the McCanns despair
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What's not to love? ... shame it took so long ...
McCanns get favourable ruling over ex-cop Amaral
IN NEWS · 22-01-2015 08:40:00 · 0 COMMENTS
A Lisbon Court last night ruled in favour of the parents of missing British toddler Madeleine McCann in their libel suit against former Portuguese police detective Gonçalo Amaral.
Kate and Gerry McCann instituted legal proceedings in 2010, seeking damages of one million pounds against Amaral who oversaw the first six months of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
During yesterday’s ruling, which the McCanns did not attend, Judge Emília Melo e Castro revealed that direct "emotional" damage had been caused by Amaral’s book, The Truth of the Lie, and also ruled that the former detective had breached Portugal’s strict secrecy laws.
However, the judge also found that "it had not been proven that Kate and Gerry McCann were destroyed from a moral, social and ethical point of view", but said that the publication of the book by Amaral resulted in the couple "feeling anger, despair, anxious, worried and suffered sleepless nights and experienced a lack of apetite."
Newspaper reports have also since stated the couple's reputation had already been damaged prior to the book's release, which might be seen as factor which could substantially reduce and pay-outs should the court decide money should change hands.
A final ruling is expected to take about 30 days before being read out.
http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
The judge did not say a word about the secrecy laws. It wasn't even part of the trial.
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If you put all the reports together its fairly easy to see exactly what has happened...although some on here won't accept the truth. this article seems the most balanced. The judge has ruled that the book did cause damages but that it was not the sole cause of the McCanns despair
The sole cause of the mccanns despair was their irresponsibility as parents, who placed their children in unnecessary danger.
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http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/2015_01_21_casal_destruido_antes_de_livro.html
The Couple were destroyed before the book
Judge says that damages caused to the parents by the book about the Maddie case were not proven.
By Magali Pinto
The judge, Emilia Melo e Castro, who is deciding on the civil case which opposes Maddie's parents and Gonçalo Amaral, ex-PJ investigator, concluded that "it was not proven that Kate and Gerry were destroyed morally, socially or ethically", despite considering that with the publication of the book "A Verdade da Mentira" by Amaral, the couple "felt rage, despair, anguish, worry, suffered insomnia and lack of appetite".These are some of the facts proven in the judicial action of the parents of Madeleine, the child who disappeared in May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Algarve, when she was 3 years old - where they demand compensation of 1.2 million Euros.
The McCann couple consider that the book, which defends the thesis that the parents were directly connected to the child's disappearance "shocking and an affront to the family".
The judge has not yet called a cate for the verdict in the civil case.
you should read the whole of what you post not just the headline
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The sole cause of the mccanns despair was their irresponsibility as parents, who placed their children in unnecessary danger.
nope
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nope
WRONG.
That is where the case started and finishes.
No one else but the mccanns are responsible for what they failed to do.
MAKE SURE THEIR CHILDREN WERE SAFE.
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The judges points in full. ( Thank you to Astro )
In order:
1. Gonçalo Amaral made the statements that are attributed to him under item Z)*?
*(item Z is the Correio da Manhã interview)
Proved.
2. The cover price of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” in Portugal is € 13.80, including VAT?
It is proved that the editor set the selling price at 13,33 euro, including VAT.
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than € 621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than € 498.750,00?
(Items 3&4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned 342.111,86 euro from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved.
6. The DVD has a cover price of € 6,00?
Proved that it was sold for 6,95 euro with newspaper Correio daManhã.
7. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the DVD an amount that is not less than € 112.500,00?
Proved that he earned 40.000 euro from DVD sales in 2008. Based on info from the Revenue Service.
8. The DVD that is mentioned under AN) has been edited and the edited copies have been sold by defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”?
Proved.
9. Defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”? has already made the DVD, in an English version, available for immediate delivery via internet order?
Not proved.
10. At least two million and two hundred thousand people have watched the programme that was broadcast on 13.4.2009?
Proved.
11. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine MacCann?
Not proved.
12. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them?
Not proved.
13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
14. Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann feel a deep shame and an indescribable ill-being because they are considered, by most people who know the theories of defendant Gonçalo Amaral, as having responsibility in the death of their daughter, being so cowardly that they have hidden her cadaver, simulating abduction, all of this to avoid criminal accusations?
Proved that the couple felt badly about being considered responsible over the hiding of their daughter's body and simulating her abduction by those who believe in Mr Amaral's thesis.
The judge states that it is not possible to determine what most people who have read or seen Mr Amaral's thesis actually think.
She adds that the plaintiffs failed to prove shame, even with Kate stating it was not shame that she felt.
The judge once more believes it is expectable that the plaintiffs would feel badly about being considered to be responsible for hiding the body and staging an abduction - not, the judge stresses, about being responsible for their daughter's death, as is commonly, and mistakenly, believed.
15. Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann live under enormous daily pressure due to the need to keep their younger children away from the knowledge of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s opinions about their moral integrity?
Proved that the couple feels the need to keep their younger children from finding out about said thesis.
This fact also derives from common experience and was corroborated by David Trickey's testimony.
16. Namely because of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s statements in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, author Kate MacCann is immerged in a deep and serious depression, which has already made her state publicly “I wish I was in a coma, to relieve the pain”?
Not proved.
17. Sean and Amelie MacCann will soon become aware of the conclusions that are mentioned in J), because they will go to school?
It is proved that Sean and Amelie started school in August of 2010 and have not learned about Mr Amaral's thesis yet.
18. 63.369 copies of the DVD were not sold, having been destroyed afterwards?
Proved.
19. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has gone into retirement from the Polícia Judiciária on 1.6.2008?
Proved that he retired on July 1st, 2008.
20. On 22.6.2008, the Attorney General’s Office published a note for the media, announcing the archiving of the inquiry, awaiting better evidence?
It is proved that such a note was issued on the 21st of July of 2008, the note also informed that the case could be reopened if new evidence appeared and prompted relevant diligences.
21. The criminal inquiry was reopened due to the appearance of new evidence?
Not proved.
22. The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published?
Not proved.
23. The sale of the books was made on consignment, being subject to devolution for various reasons, like handling, manufacturing defects or their non-transaction?
Proved that the book was partly sold on consignment, and partly firmly sold with a right to return for various motives.
24. The so-called “Maddie Case” has been profoundly treated within the Portuguese and foreign society, whether by the media, or through books, like those authored by Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, Manuel Catarino and Hernâni Carvalho?
Proved.
25. The so-called “Maddie Case” was commented upon by Dr. Francisco Moita Flores, former inspector, writer, criminalist and commentator, in various media?
Proved.
26. Have authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann hired communication firms and spokespeople through the Madeleine Fund?
(for unknown reasons, the judge does not mention this item at all)
27. Are the facts that are reported by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book and in the aforementioned interviews, like he himself writes and said, facts that were established during the inquiry?
28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
The judge does note that some of the facts in the book are not complete, and some facts that are in the book are not in the case files, including Jane Tanner's "informal" recognition of Robert Murat.
29. The social capital of defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.” is held, in 60%, by the firm “Estúdios Valentim de Carvalho, Gravações e Audiovisuais, S.A.” and, in 40%, by the Fundo de Investimento para o Cinema e o Audiovisual?
Proved.
30. Has defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.” ceded the rights to sell, distribute, exhibit and broadcast all of the cinematographic and audiovisual work that it creates, develops and produces to the firm “Valentim de Carvalho Multimédia, S.A.”?
Proved that VC Filmes agreed to give VC Multimedia the rights to sell and distribute several works that were to be produced within 5 years.
31. Until today, has the documentary been reproduced only once to be edited, published and sold in Portugal under video format, in this case a DVD?
Proved.
32. The reproduction and edition of the documentary in video format have been authorised by “Valentim de Carvalho Multimédia, S.A.” to firm “Presslivre, Imprensa Livre, S.A.”, the owner of the Correio da Manhã newspaper, according to a contract between both?
Proved.
33. Under which [contract], the DVD, its covers and packages would be, as they were, manufactured on behalf of, under order of and under the responsibility of Presslivre, in order to be distributed and sold together with newspaper Correio da Manhã?
Proved.
34. And the entire process of registering and classifying the video edition (DVD) of the documentary with ICAG would be, as it was, developed by Valentim de Carvalho Multimédia, a process whose cost would be carried by Presslivre, as it did?
Proved.
35. The distribution for sale took place in conjunction with the distribution for sale of the newspaper Correio da Manhã’s edition of April 24, 2009?
It is proved only that the documentary was distributed for sale with the newspaper.
36. The documentary was reproduced, and even subtitled in the English language, by third parties that published it on the internet, without permission and against the will of the defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”?
Proved.
37. That illicit diffusion damages not only the rights that are held by defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.” over the documentary, but also its commercial exploration, because any citizen can watch the documentary, also only one “click” away?
Proved.
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The 'disputed' fact in full.
"13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal."
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http://portugalresident.com/amaral-supporters-optimistic-following-judge’s-rulings-in-mccanns’-libel-case
Amaral supporters optimistic following judge’s rulings in McCanns’ libel case
Amaral supporters optimistic following judge’s rulings in McCanns’ libel case
Kate and Gerry McCann seemed to suffer a setback on Wednesday in suing former detective Gonçalo Amaral over his controversial book about the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.
In Lisbon’s Palace of Justice, Judge Maria Emília Melo e Castro handed lawyers in the civil action a written statement evaluating as proven or not a list of 37 points on which she intends to base her verdict. Neither the McCanns nor Amaral were present.
Amaral supporters said afterwards that the statement made them feel cautiously optimistic.
The McCanns are seeking €1.2 million in damages for the severe distress they say has been caused to them by the book, A Verdade da Mentira (‘The Truth of the Lie’) and a subsequent documentary.
The judge ruled that while statements in the book had psychologically affected the McCanns, the great anguish suffered by the couple over their missing daughter preceded the book’s publication rather than being a consequence of it.
She pointed out that the book was very largely based on facts in police files. Nowhere did Amaral claim that the McCanns had killed their daughter, only the theory that they had hidden Madeleine’s body and fabricated a story about abduction, said the judge.
In personal statements to the court last July, both Kate and Gerry McCann spoke not only of the great harm they believed had been caused to their family by allegations in the book, but that the allegations had hampered the search for Madeleine.
The judge said it had not been proved that the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance because of the book’s contents.
Amaral insisted last year that the lawfulness of his book was “indisputable” because of a decision of the Appellate Court in Lisbon that overturned an earlier ruling banning it.
The McCanns now have time to seek and present authorisation from the British High Court to formally represent their daughter in this case. Madeleine was made a ward of court at the instigation of her parents in April 2008. This could have a bearing on the amount of any compensation eventually awarded.
This long-running case in Lisbon has been suspended several times over the past five years, including in January 2013 when the court allowed the two sides to try to reach a private settlement. No agreement was reached.
No date has been set for a verdict but it is thought to be more than two months away. Even when it comes, the verdict will probably not be the end of the matter. An appeal is likely.
Also, Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him.
By LEN PORT
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The 'disputed' fact in full.
"13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal."
I would bet the ranch that the judge did not say the words in red...they have been added by the translator
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I would bet the ranch that the judge did not say the words in red...they have been added by the translator
From the article directly above :
'The judge ruled that while the book had psychologically affected the McCanns, the great anguish suffered by the couple over their missing daughter preceded the book’s publication rather than being a consequence of it.'
In a nutshell.
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From the article directly above :
'The judge ruled that while the book had psychologically affected the McCanns, the great anguish suffered by the couple over their missing daughter preceded the book’s publication rather than being a consequence of it.'
In a nutshell.
I agree with that. As has been pointed out by an ex solicitor on another forum this will mean that hthe damage3s to be paid will be reduced by a percentage
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posters can wriggle as much as they like...the judge has ruled that the book damaged the McCanns ...we await the level of damages
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I agree with that. As has been pointed out by an ex solicitor on another forum this will mean that hthe damage3s to be paid will be reduced by a percentage
@)(++(*
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8(>((
posters can wriggle as much as they like...the judge has ruled that the book damaged the McCanns ...we await the level of damages
Dream on Dave. 8)--))
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Thank you for posting the full statement of facts Faithlilly. It is clear that,when taken as a whole,the McCann's have failed to prove their case. Dr Amaral's solicitor has responded positively,but if I am not mistaken,we are yet to hear from the McCann's solicitor? Interesting! Just a matter of waiting for the verdict for confirmation now then?
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Thank you for posting the full statement of facts Faithlilly. It is clear that,when taken as a whole,the McCann's have failed to prove their case. Dr Amaral's solicitor has responded positively,but if I am not mistaken,we are yet to hear from the McCann's solicitor? Interesting! Just a matter of waiting for the verdict for confirmation now then?
I'm astonished that posters can be so blind to the true facts...we will just wait till the judge decides compensation.
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So what is next in the long running saga of the dénouement of Dr Amaral and his book?
The judge has looked favourably on the Drs McCann's complaint ... and it would now seem to be all over bar the shouting and the amount of the damages to be determined.
That is in the real world.
I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that even as those in denial about Judge Maria Emilia de Melo e Castro determinations are working on their next tweet ... Dr Amaral will also be hard at work on his appeal ... seems to have worked for him in the past in postponing the inevitable.
Wonder when we can expect the next appeal for funds to pay for his legal adventures?
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11. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine MacCann?
Not proved.
22. The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published?
Not proved.
These two points are interesting with regard to the book`s effect on the investigation and the search.
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I'm astonished that posters can be so blind to the true facts...we will just wait till the judge decides compensation.
I imagine the amount will be a true reflection of the amount of damage - ie small amount if very little damage.
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/553447/Kate-Gerry-McCann-key-court-victory-libel-battle-Goncalo-Amaral (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/553447/Kate-Gerry-McCann-key-court-victory-libel-battle-Goncalo-Amaral)
Kate and Gerry McCann win court victory in £1million libel battle against ex-police chief
MADELEINE McCann’s parents won an important victory in their £1 million libel battle against an ex-police chief yesterday.
A Portuguese judge concluded the couple were “emotionally hurt” by the former-detective’s book about the tragedy.
She also ruled Goncalo Amaral appeared to breach strict secrecy rules by including confidential information from official files.
Kate and Gerry McCann are suing Mr Amaral for £1 million over allegations in his 2008 book The Truth of the Lie.
The detective headed the first police investigation into the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine who vanished from an Algarve resort in May 2007.
He published his book three days after the Portuguese shelved inquiries into the case.
Last year, the McCanns told a court in Lisbon they were left “devastated and crushed” by claims in the book.
In The Truth of the Lie, Mr Amaral accused them of faking their daughter’s kidnap to cover up her death in the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.
His allegations were also the basis of a Portuguese television documentary.
During her emotional testimony, Mrs McCann said: “I believe that’s what’s in Mr Amaral’s book and the documentary is very distressing to adults. To a child it could be very damaging.”
Asked how she felt after reading the book, she said: “I was devastated. It made me feel quite desperate because of the injustice I felt towards my daughter and our family as a whole.
“It was very painful to read and I felt sad for Madeleine. I also felt anxious and fearful because of the damage I felt it was doing in Portugal.”
During a private hearing yesterday, Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro ruled in favour of the McCanns by acknowledging the hurt the book had caused them.
She also concluded Mr Amaral’s book had reproduced extracts from police files in apparent breach of judicial secrecy.
But she also is also believed to have dismissed a claim by the McCanns that the book effectively halted new police inquiries into what happened to their little girl.
Yesterday’s hearing, attended by lawyers for the McCanns and Mr Amaral, is the latest stage in the long running-legal saga which began in October 2013.
It took place to discuss which facts had been proven in the case.
No date has yet been set for a full judgment but the McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, hope it will be next month.
Inquiries by Portuguese police and Scotland Yard detectives into the truth about Madeleine’s disappearance are continuing.
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/553447/Kate-Gerry-McCann-key-court-victory-libel-battle-Goncalo-Amaral (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/553447/Kate-Gerry-McCann-key-court-victory-libel-battle-Goncalo-Amaral)
Kate and Gerry McCann win court victory in £1million libel battle against ex-police chief
MADELEINE McCann’s parents won an important victory in their £1 million libel battle against an ex-police chief yesterday.
A Portuguese judge concluded the couple were “emotionally hurt” by the former-detective’s book about the tragedy.
She also ruled Goncalo Amaral appeared to breach strict secrecy rules by including confidential information from official files.
Kate and Gerry McCann are suing Mr Amaral for £1 million over allegations in his 2008 book The Truth of the Lie.
The detective headed the first police investigation into the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine who vanished from an Algarve resort in May 2007.
He published his book three days after the Portuguese shelved inquiries into the case.
Last year, the McCanns told a court in Lisbon they were left “devastated and crushed” by claims in the book.
In The Truth of the Lie, Mr Amaral accused them of faking their daughter’s kidnap to cover up her death in the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.
His allegations were also the basis of a Portuguese television documentary.
During her emotional testimony, Mrs McCann said: “I believe that’s what’s in Mr Amaral’s book and the documentary is very distressing to adults. To a child it could be very damaging.”
Asked how she felt after reading the book, she said: “I was devastated. It made me feel quite desperate because of the injustice I felt towards my daughter and our family as a whole.
“It was very painful to read and I felt sad for Madeleine. I also felt anxious and fearful because of the damage I felt it was doing in Portugal.”
During a private hearing yesterday, Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro ruled in favour of the McCanns by acknowledging the hurt the book had caused them.
She also concluded Mr Amaral’s book had reproduced extracts from police files in apparent breach of judicial secrecy.
But she also is also believed to have dismissed a claim by the McCanns that the book effectively halted new police inquiries into what happened to their little girl.
Yesterday’s hearing, attended by lawyers for the McCanns and Mr Amaral, is the latest stage in the long running-legal saga which began in October 2013.
It took place to discuss which facts had been proven in the case.
No date has yet been set for a full judgment but the McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, hope it will be next month.
Inquiries by Portuguese police and Scotland Yard detectives into the truth about Madeleine’s disappearance are continuing.
The Express, no surprise, has singularly failed to show all sections where the McCann's FAILED to rove their case.
I wonder why ? 8)--))
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The Express, no surprise, has singularly failed to show all sections where the McCann's FAILED to rove their case.
I wonder why ? 8)--))
LOL, and you think Astro has posted all sections of the report? I wonder why? 8)--))
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I'm astonished that posters can be so blind to the true facts...we will just wait till the judge decides compensation.
I'm still betting it will private %£&)**#
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LOL, and you think Astro has posted all sections of the report? I wonder why? 8)--))
Dream on, as you will.
Where in the express did it state even one of the McCann's 16 failures ?
8**8:/: *&*%£
As I posted earlier on another forum.
The McCann's started with a cake and left with a crumb. *&*%£
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I don't know whether its Astro, but someone has put up a report of 37 issues that have been proved or not proved. Are there more?
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I don't know whether its Astro, but someone has put up a report of 37 issues that have been proved or not proved. Are there more?
There were 37 points in the case, so they're all there.
BTW, it was not a private hearing, there were 3 people from the public there, but no journalists. Why?
Also, the judge did not bring up any points regarding the secrecy of justice. It was not part of these questions AFAIK.
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As I said above, it was not a private hearing and was open to the public.
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I don't know whether its Astro, but someone has put up a report of 37 issues that have been proved or not proved. Are there more?
No I believe that's it jassi.
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From CdM ( thank you Textusa for transaltion )
In Correio da Manhã, paper edition, Thursday, 22.1.2015, p g15:
Top of Page:
JUSTICE: GERRY AND KATE SUE GONÇALO AMARAL
Title:
"Couple destroyed before book"
Sub-title:
Judge says it wasn’t proven damages caused to parents in the sequence of book about Maddie
Magali Pinto
Judge Emilia Melo e Castro who decides on the civil proceedings that opposes Maddie's parents to Gonçalo Amaral, former PJ investigator, concludes that "no proof was made [no evidence has been presented to prove] that Kate and Gerry are destroyed from a moral, social and ethical point of views "- despite considering that due to the publication of the book 'Maddie, the truth of the lie”, by Amaral, the couple "felt anger, despair, anxiety, worry, and suffered insomnia and lack of appetite."
These are some of the facts considered proved in the lawsuit filed by the parents of Madeleine - the girl who disappeared in May 2007 in Praia da Luz in the Algarve, when she was three – in which they demand an indemnity of € 1.2 million.
At the end of the dispatch, to which the CdM had access to, the judge added that "from the sentimental/emotional point of view it’s not credible that the consequences of the facts would go to the point of destruction or beyond the pain caused by the disappearance of their daughter. It is not certain from the available evidence to discern what of these alleged facts is a result of Madeleine's disappearance from what is the effect caused by the book. "
When the couple was last year, in July at the Justice Palace [building of the court-house] in Lisbon, to make their statements, they considered the book, which defends the thesis that the parents are directly linked to the disappearance of the child, "shocking and an affront to the family". "Before and during reading of the book, I felt anguish, despair and anger", said Gerry to the judge.
In 2009, the court ordered that the Gonçalo Amaral books of the stands; however, the Appeal Court overturned this decision. The magistrate has not yet set a date for the reading of the sentence of this civil action.
*********
Inset:
Magistrate has not yet set date to announce decision.
*********
Caption of photos:
Judge yesterday gave signs that the decision would be in favour of Gonçalo Amaral.
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As I said above, it was not a private hearing and was open to the public.
Thanks Montclair, the Express got it wrong again...no surprises there.
Good to see the learned Judge has accepted as unproven that the book and DVD somehow damaged the search for Madeleine since the opposite is true.
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http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/
Wednesday, 21 January 2015
No Gloating?
In the end it was so humiliating that we felt guilty for laughing at them – the Support Group, that is, not the “destroyed” parents. They were getting their information from the newspapers and one Team in May 2007 and they believed it all. And it was just the same eight years later on January 21 2015, the poor b........s. The poor, exploited b........s.
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The reports in Media are all a bit garbled and conflicting.
It is probably not fully understood, by them either.
There are so many “Buts” Which make it difficult to understand the Judge’s reasoning and whether it is an allowable cause for suffering or not, due to the book……..
See -at the end of her Proved/unproved decision, in some sections.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Such as
13. Proved……but…………
13.Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
14. Proved ….but????…………………….........
14. Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann feel a deep shame and an indescribable ill-being because they are considered, by most people who know the theories of defendant Gonçalo Amaral, as having responsibility in the death of their daughter, being so cowardly that they have hidden her cadaver, simulating abduction, all of this to avoid criminal accusations?
Proved that the couple felt badly about being considered responsible over the hiding of their daughter's body and simulating her abduction by those who believe in Mr Amaral's thesis.
The judge states that it is not possible to determine what most people who have read or seen Mr Amaral's thesis actually think.
She adds that the plaintiffs failed to prove shame, even with Kate stating it was not shame that she felt.
The judge once more believes it is expectable that the plaintiffs would feel badly about being considered to be responsible for hiding the body and staging an abduction - not, the judge stresses, about being responsible for their daughter's death, as is commonly, and mistakenly, believed.
15. Proved Which will mean that the mccanns stress in trying to protect the children (twins) from the content of the book, should IMO, be paid damages.
,,…………………….
15 Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann live under enormous daily pressure due to the need to keep their younger children away from the knowledge of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s opinions about their moral integrity?
Proved that the couple feels the need to keep their younger children from finding out about said thesis.
This fact also derives from common experience and was corroborated by David Trickey's testimony.
17. Proved but is it... Damage to the twins ??? sounds pretty clear cut, or is it?……………………………
17. Sean and Amelie MacCann will soon become aware of the conclusions that are mentioned in J), because they will go to school?
It is proved that Sean and Amelie started school in August of 2010 and have not learned about Mr Amaral's thesis yet.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I do not believe that the payment of damages caused(if deemed proved), will amount to that which has been claimed, unfortunately.
That is just my opinion, of course.
It will all be made clear, next month, I believe, but at present it is all a bit confusing as to what the Judge, did and did not mean in her summing up notes, which appear after the proved declarations.
……………………………….....................................
I believe damages were claimed at around £250,000 for each member of the family, including Madeleine. This will IMO be considerably reduced where allegations are not proved .
I believe the twins will get their damages paid though.
.
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The reports in Media are all a bit garbled and conflicting.
It is probably not fully understood, by them either.
There are so many “Buts” Which make it difficult to understand the Judge’s reasoning and whether it is an allowable cause for suffering or not, due to the book……..
See -at the end of her Proved/unproved decision, in some sections.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Such as
13. Proved……but…………
13.Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
14. Proved ….but????…………………….........
14. Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann feel a deep shame and an indescribable ill-being because they are considered, by most people who know the theories of defendant Gonçalo Amaral, as having responsibility in the death of their daughter, being so cowardly that they have hidden her cadaver, simulating abduction, all of this to avoid criminal accusations?
Proved that the couple felt badly about being considered responsible over the hiding of their daughter's body and simulating her abduction by those who believe in Mr Amaral's thesis.
The judge states that it is not possible to determine what most people who have read or seen Mr Amaral's thesis actually think.
She adds that the plaintiffs failed to prove shame, even with Kate stating it was not shame that she felt.
The judge once more believes it is expectable that the plaintiffs would feel badly about being considered to be responsible for hiding the body and staging an abduction - not, the judge stresses, about being responsible for their daughter's death, as is commonly, and mistakenly, believed.
15. Proved Which will mean that the mccanns stress in trying to protect the children (twins) from the content of the book, should IMO, be paid damages.
,,…………………….
15 Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann live under enormous daily pressure due to the need to keep their younger children away from the knowledge of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s opinions about their moral integrity?
Proved that the couple feels the need to keep their younger children from finding out about said thesis.
This fact also derives from common experience and was corroborated by David Trickey's testimony.
17. Proved but is it... Damage to the twins ??? sounds pretty clear cut, or is it?……………………………
17. Sean and Amelie MacCann will soon become aware of the conclusions that are mentioned in J), because they will go to school?
It is proved that Sean and Amelie started school in August of 2010 and have not learned about Mr Amaral's thesis yet.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I do not believe that the payment of damages caused(if deemed proved), will amount to that which has been claimed, unfortunately.
That is just my opinion, of course.
It will all be made clear, next month, I believe, but at present it is all a bit confusing as to what the Judge, did and did not mean in her summing up notes, which appear after the proved declarations.
……………………………….....................................
I believe damages were claimed at around £250,000 for each member of the family, including Madeleine. This will IMO be considerably reduced where allegations are not proved .
I believe the twins will get their damages paid though.
.
How were the twins damaged exactly ?
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How were the twins damaged exactly ?
The disappearance of Maddie can not be the reason for any stress they may suffer, when the contents of the book are available to them.
They were too young to be suffering from her loss, before the book came out as is suggested of the parents suffering.
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How were the twins damaged exactly ?
They're claiming for future impact also. Sooner or later they will see information, that's unavoidable in the modern world. But they will certainly have already seen the horrendous newspaper front pages that appear regularly, but nobody cares about those? &%+((£ Strange.
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They're claiming for future impact also. Sooner or later they will see information, that's unavoidable in the modern world. But they will certainly have already seen the horrendous newspaper front pages that appear regularly, but nobody cares about those? &%+((£ Strange.
They are I believe nine years old.
What newspapers, have you seen recently, accusing the parents of hiding the body of their child?
I believe one of the twins have already questions the parents about this part of Amarals book, which they heard on the news.
They are children FGS and should not be suffering such worry and uncertainties.
We know of course that it can only get worse.
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The disappearance of Maddie can not be the reason for any stress they may suffer, when the contents of the book are available to them.
They were too young to be suffering from her loss, before the book came out as is suggested of the parents suffering.
and who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance ?
Certainly not Amaral or any of the other defendants.
As regards the parents, many people regard them responsible for any suffering of the other two children.
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and who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance ?
Certainly not Amaral or any of the other defendants.
As regards the parents, many people regard them responsible for any suffering of the other two children.
This is not an item being considered in the libel case and not relevant to this topic.
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They are I believe nine years old.
What newspapers, have you seen recently, accusing the parents of hiding the body of their child?
I believe one of the twins have already questions the parents about this part of Amarals book, which they heard on the news.
They are children FGS and should not be suffering such worry and uncertainties.
We know of course that it can only get worse.
I don't think there can be any doubt that this must already have impacted on Madeleine's siblings.
Having a very young pre-teen in the family who searches the internet for school projects etc; I cannot imagine the added stresses the Drs McCann must have in protecting their children from the outrages posted on the internet.
Show me the young person these days without his/her own hand held device with direct links to the www.
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This is not an item being considered in the libel case and not relevant to this topic.
How can it be irrelevant ?
Besides how can you prove the book or video has damaged the other two children ?
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I don't think there can be any doubt that this must already have impacted on Madeleine's siblings.
Having a very young pre-teen in the family who searches the internet for school projects etc; I cannot imagine the added stresses the Drs McCann must have in protecting their children from the outrages posted on the internet.
Show me the young person these days without his/her own hand held device with direct links to the www.
Agreed, Brietta. I believe the parents and the children should be awarded damages, in this respect.
However the case is not being handled in the UK, so who knows?
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They are I believe nine years old.
What newspapers, have you seen recently, accusing the parents of hiding the body of their child?
I believe one of the twins have already questions the parents about this part of Amarals book, which they heard on the news.
They are children FGS and should not be suffering such worry and uncertainties.
We know of course that it can only get worse.
But they wouldn't have heard that radio report if the legal action in Portugal had never been taken would they.
There have also been a few newspaper front pages they wouldn't have seen either if legal action had never been taken.
Talk in Lisbon has been about what they may see in the future. But right now they see the photograph of their sister regularly on newspaper front pages, accompanied by lurid speculation about her fate. Nobody complains about this, but which will have the greater impact on the other children: what they may see in the future, or what they're almost certainly seeing now?
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How can it be irrelevant ?
Besides how can you prove the book or video has damaged the other two children ?
Who was or was not responsible for MM disappearance, has nothing to do with the case being discussed.....damages from Book
15 Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann live under enormous daily pressure due to the need to keep their younger children away from the knowledge of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s opinions about their moral integrity?
Proved that the couple feels the need to keep their younger children from finding out about said thesis.
This fact also derives from common experience and was corroborated by David Trickey's testimony.
17. Sean and Amelie MacCann will soon become aware of the conclusions that are mentioned in J), because they will go to school?
It is proved that Sean and Amelie started school in August of 2010 and have not learned about Mr Amaral's thesis yet.
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But they wouldn't have heard that radio report if the legal action in Portugal had never been taken would they.
There have also been a few newspaper front pages they wouldn't have seen either if legal action had never been taken.
Talk in Lisbon has been about what they may see in the future. Right now they see the photograph of their sister regularly on newspaper front pages, accompanied by lurid speculation about her fate. Nobody complains about this, but which will have the greater impact on the other children: what they may see in the future, or what they're almost certainly seeing now?
So you would ignore any accusations against you made worldwide, which would affect you family, Lyall?
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Who was or was not responsible for MM disappearance, has nothing to do with the case being discussed.....damages from Book
15 Authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann live under enormous daily pressure due to the need to keep their younger children away from the knowledge of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s opinions about their moral integrity?
Proved that the couple feels the need to keep their younger children from finding out about said thesis.
This fact also derives from common experience and was corroborated by David Trickey's testimony.
17. Sean and Amelie MacCann will soon become aware of the conclusions that are mentioned in J), because they will go to school?
It is proved that Sean and Amelie started school in August of 2010 and have not learned about Mr Amaral's thesis yet.
We live in a world where people should answer for the consequences of their actions.
Amaral is not responsible for Madeleine's disappearance.
The nature of Madeleine's disappearance remains unknown.
Amaral or the publisher's are not responsible whether or not the two other children read anything pertaining to their sister'sdisappearance, and pray tell me how you quantify damage to them ?
With reasoned logic.
and let's not forget Amaral's hypothesis was and is shared by many people, AND HAS NOT BEEN DISPROVED.
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So you would ignore any accusations against you made worldwide, which would affect you family, Lyall?
I don't think anyone could do much against worldwide accusations.
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I don't think anyone could do much against worldwide accusations.
It is, but one book that is responsible for the spread of DVDs books etc to other countries, so it makes sense to take action against the author.
What would you do jassi, if it was your family?
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It isn't one book that is responsible - they just attacked him because they could.
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So you would ignore any accusations against you made worldwide, which would affect you family, Lyall?
But what needs to be proven for damages to be awarded is that it was Amaral's book specifically that caused, or will cause, damage to the twins and not all the other information available on the case. It would seem that that hasn't happened.
It does make me laugh though that the case could have been heard in camera ( Amaral's preferred choice ), saving the twins from hearing about the book's claims on the radio and elsewhere, yet the McCanns objected to this.
I'm sure that decision was noted by the judge.
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It isn't one book that is responsible - they just attacked him because they could.
Really? And what gives you this belief?
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There were 37 points in the case, so they're all there.
BTW, it was not a private hearing, there were 3 people from the public there, but no journalists. Why?
Also, the judge did not bring up any points regarding the secrecy of justice. It was not part of these questions AFAIK.
So where is the report on what the judge says about WOC, they have 30 days to produce. Which apparently was asked for by the judge in 2013.
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In reply to Anna.
Did Amaral supply the books and DVD's around the world.
That was the publisher's choice.
He after all could not make them publish his theories, which the basic premise of, of course has not been disproved.
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So you would ignore any accusations against you made worldwide, which would affect you family, Lyall?
They did ignore it, for almost a year I think before taking action in Portugal. But once the book and dvd were online the action in Portugal was a bit irrelevant in relation to what their other children may see in the future anyway.
I would have continued ignoring it and concentrated on my own efforts to prove GA wrong. If you can't do that, whatever victories in courtrooms you have you won't be able to stop the speculation.
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In reply to Anna.
Did Amaral supply the books and DVD's around the world.
That was the publisher's choice.
He after all could not make them publish his theories, which the basic premise of, of course has not been disproved.
Without the book being written....It could go nowhere.
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They did ignore it, for almost a year I think before taking action in Portugal. But once the book and dvd were online the action in Portugal was a bit irrelevant in relation to what their other children may see in the future anyway.
I would have continued ignoring it and concentrated on my own efforts to prove GA wrong. If you can't do that, whatever victories in courtrooms you have you won't be able to stop the speculation.
in bold:- This is true, Lyall, but how many more books may have been written, fuelling even more speculation, if no action was taken?
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Without the book being written....I could go nowhere.
Did Amaral commit a crime in writing the book ?
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The McCanns had to do something. They did try to ignore Amaral for nearly a year, but he just got worse, saying more and more outlandish things, on TV and in Newspapers, as the weeks went by. Almost goading The McCanns into retaliating.
Left at the book it might have been a different story. But Amaral was never going to do that.
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Did Amaral commit a crime in writing the book ?
That is not for me to decide.
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Did Amaral commit a crime in writing the book ?
We shall have to wait and see. There is still the question of The Secrecy Laws.
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The McCanns had to do something. They did try to ignore Amaral for nearly a year, but he just got worse, saying more and more outlandish things, on TV and in Newspapers, as the weeks went by. Almost goading The McCanns into retaliating.
Left at the book it might have been a different story. But Amaral was never going to do that.
More and more outlandish.
Can you prove that ?
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More and more outlandish.
Can you prove that ?
I don't have to. It's all on record.
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We shall have to wait and see. There is still the question of The Secrecy Laws.
The trouble with, was that all the information was in the public domain, and was shared and is still shared by other people.
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I don't have to. It's all on record.
Where ?
and where has Amaral's theory of accidental death, shared by many, been disproved ?
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Where ?
and where has Amaral's theory of accidental death, shared by many, been disproved ?
Where has Amaral proved that an accidental death happened?
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He put it forward as a theory, not a fact, did he not?
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Where has Amaral proved that an accidental death happened?
It remains a workable hypothesis.
Likewise where has abduction been proved ?
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in bold:- This is true, Lyall, but how many more books may have been written, fuelling even more speculation, if no action was taken?
&%+((£ Good point.
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So where is the report on what the judge says about WOC, they have 30 days to produce. Which apparently was asked for by the judge in 2013.
I can find no reference to this in the last "stating proven facts" on 21st Jan 2014, DCI.
Only the past request which is here.
Final claimant speech was 10th dec 2014
Libel trial McCann v Gonçalo Amaral - Day 13 – Final claimant speech
The hearing as it happened
(10.12.2014, 10 am)
All lawyers are present, except for Dra Isabel Duarte, substituted (no reason given) by her assistant, who therefore occupies her chair. Each lawyer will stand up while speaking (whereas up to this hearing they always remained sitting when speaking).
The judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro opens the session alluding to the 30 days that are granted to the plaintiffs to obtain from the High Court the authorisation to legally represent, in this trial, their missing daughter. After this time, the lawyers (all requested it) will have 10 days to hand written alegações de direito (allegations concerning points of law and their interpretation) over to the court (whereas the matter of fact concerns what happened and how it happened, the matter of law comes under the conformity to law and justice).
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Plaintiffs_10_12_2014.htm
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I believe one of the twins have already questions the parents about this part of Amarals book, which they heard on the news.
It would be interesting to know why it was on the news? Maybe because of the McCanns suing GA. A bit if a circular argument.
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Final claimant speech was 10th dec 2014
Libel trial McCann v Gonçalo Amaral - Day 13 – Final claimant speech
The hearing as it happened
(10.12.2014, 10 am)
All lawyers are present, except for Dra Isabel Duarte, substituted (no reason given) by her assistant, who therefore occupies her chair. Each lawyer will stand up while speaking (whereas up to this hearing they always remained sitting when speaking).
The judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro opens the session alluding to the 30 days that are granted to the plaintiffs to obtain from the High Court the authorisation to legally represent, in this trial, their missing daughter. After this time, the lawyers (all requested it) will have 10 days to hand written alegações de direito (allegations concerning points of law and their interpretation) over to the court (whereas the matter of fact concerns what happened and how it happened, the matter of law comes under the conformity to law and justice).
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Plaintiffs_10_12_2014.htm (http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Plaintiffs_10_12_2014.htm)
That's last years Anna. It was supposed to have been in yesterday's report too. So if they had 30 days last year why didn't the judge do what she said she would do last July, if they failed to prove it, and acquit all defendants with regard to the claim made in Madeleine's name.
Anne Guedes yesterday.
The other issue was related to the WOC issue. From this day on, the claimants have 30 days to hand over the London Court's authorization to have Madeleine McCann represented by her parents in this trial. Meanwhile the trial is suspended. After the 30 days delay, which of course can happen to be shorter, the lawyers will have ten days to hand in their "allegations of law".
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That's last years Anna. It was supposed to have been in yesterday's report too. So if they had 30 days last year why didn't the judge do what she said she would do last July, if they failed to prove it, and acquit all defendants with regard to the claim made in Madeleine's name.
Anne Guedes yesterday.
The other issue was related to the WOC issue. From this day on, the claimants have 30 days to hand over the London Court's authorization to have Madeleine McCann represented by her parents in this trial. Meanwhile the trial is suspended. After the 30 days delay, which of course can happen to be shorter, the lawyers will have ten days to hand in their "allegations of law".
That doesn't make sense really, does it?
Why would she say exactly the same, yesterday as she said in Dec last year?
The handing in of "Allegations of law" would surely be required before, The statements of proven facts, yesterday? Have I missed something?
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That doesn't make sense really, does it?
Why would she say exactly the same, yesterday as she said in Dec last year?
The handing in of "Allegations of law" would surely be required before, The statements of proven facts, yesterday? Have I missed something?
The first stage of the allegations were delivered at the previous sitting. Yesterdays little event was entirely the judges wherein she had to reveal what has been proven and what has not been proven. From the little I have read she basically torpedoed the claim out of the water. This explanation of Portuguese procedures should assist:
Bold text added by Editor.
At the end of the trial, attorneys will produce oral allegations on the facts presented in the trial, explaining which of them (and why) should or should not be considered proved. Afterwards the judge will pass a decision on the facts, explaining which facts (of the list prepared in the preliminary hearing) are considered to have been proved by the court, why and on which grounds.
The parties will subsequently be allowed to file written submissions containing their final legal allegations, through which they will describe their understanding of the law applying to the facts evidenced.
The court is then expected to render its award on the case. The court is bound by the facts alleged by the parties and by the relief sought, but is free to apply the law to the facts as it deems more correct; in particular, the court shall not be limited by any legal qualification given to the facts by the parties.
The book did not damage the search, the book was not responsible for Kate McCanns mental health issues etc etc ...
There is always Dicky Desmond and the Express' twisted interpretation in which the moon is made of whipped cream.
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That doesn't make sense really, does it?
Why would she say exactly the same, yesterday as she said in Dec last year?
The handing in of "Allegations of law" would surely be required before, The statements of proven facts, yesterday? Have I missed something?
Not so much missed anything, as found the diplomatic language that befits a moderator of communicating the message that certain folk are attempting to communicate a pile of crock ...
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The first stage of the allegations were delivered at the previous sitting. Yesterdays little event was entirely the judges wherein she had to reveal what has been proven and what has not been proven. From the little I have read she basically torpedoed the claim out of the water.
Thank you Angelo, So the statement, re- Ward of court was not yesterday either, but December last year.
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The book did not damage the search, the book was not responsible for Kate McCanns mental health issues etc etc ...
There is always Dicky Desmond and the Express' twisted interpretation in which the moon is made of whipped cream.
It would seem her 'health issues' were already present.
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It would seem her 'health issues' were already present.
The judge appears to be of the belief that much preempted the publication of the book and dvd so Amaral cannot be blamed for them. In fact has she made any ruling as to Amaral's culpability?
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The judge has now decreed what has been proven under the law, the lawyers have one final opportunity to file written submissions containing their final legal allegations, through which they will describe their understanding of the law applying to the facts evidenced, and it is on that basis that her final decsion will be made.
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It would seem her 'health issues' were already present.
Course they were, her daughter was missing. When did Amaral release his book?
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Course they were, her daughter was missing. When did Amaral release his book?
Try further back.
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I'm astonished that posters can be so blind to the true facts...we will just wait till the judge decides compensation.
@)(++(* ..in yer dreams Mr Davel @)(++(*
The main claims have been rubbished already, there's always the booby prize!
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The Express got it wrong AGAIN!! Surprising since all hearings in this case are conducted in public, the private audiences you will never hear about.
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The Express got it wrong AGAIN!! All hearings in this case are conducted in public, the private audiences you will never hear about.
I see that certain supporters of the McCann's are calling yesterday a victory.
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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I see that certain supporters of the McCann's are calling yesterday a victory.
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
They must be Express readers. 8)-)))
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Right, just so's I'm clear: when the judge says it is proved that the book caused the McCanns damage what she really means is the book didn't cause them damage? Have I got the jist of the argument now?
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They must be Express readers. 8)-)))
Quite possibly. 8)--))
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Right, just so's I'm clear: when the judge says it is proved that the book caused the McCanns damage what she really means is the book didn't cause them damage? Have I got the jist of the argument now?
If the judge hadn't said that she'd effectively be calling all their witnesses and the McCanns liars. Think about it. That was never going to happen was it.
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Right, just so's I'm clear: when the judge says it is proved that the book caused the McCanns damage what she really means is the book didn't cause them damage? Have I got the jist of the argument now?
13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
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If the judge hadn't said that she'd effectively be calling all their witnesses and the McCanns liars. Think about it. That was never going to happen was it.
FYI - judges aren't employed to pussyfoot around and protect people's feelings. They are there to state facts. Now, she said it was proved that the book had caused the McCanns damage. So, was she just messing about and having a laugh?
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I've no idea how much damage she means. Pretty much everyone thinks it can hardly have improved their situation, and we'd have thought that before the trial began. I'm just saying there was zero chance she'd be signalling she didn't believe what the witnesses were telling her.
We'll have to wait and see how much damage she means.
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13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
I've read it. Now please answer my question.
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If the judge hadn't said that she'd effectively be calling all their witnesses and the McCanns liars. Think about it. That was never going to happen was it.
So in effect, the judge has called Dr Amaral and all his witnesses liars?
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&%+((£ I've no idea how much damage she means. Pretty much everyone thinks it can hardly have improved their situation, and we'd have thought that before the trial began. I'm just saying there was zero chance she'd be signalling she didn't believe what the witnesses were telling her.
We'll have to wait and see how much damage she means.
RE; The bit in bold above. She rejected a number of their claims by stating they were UNPROVEN. That doesn't mean she thinks they are liars and she could certainly have rejected all their claims as UNPROVEN without inferring they were liars - but she didn't.
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I've read it. Now please answer my question.
There was no damage over and above what is considered normal. The psychological state predated the book.
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There was no damage over and above what is considered normal.
So the book caused normal amounts of damage. Thanks for clarifying.
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RE; The bit in bold above. She rejected a number of their claims by stating they were UNPROVEN. That doesn't mean she thinks they are liars and she could certainly have rejected all their claims as UNPROVEN without inferring they were liars - but she didn't.
No because the only evidence offered to say the book and dvd made their situation worse was witness evidence. If you say that was unproven you're saying they lied.
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So the book caused normal amounts of damage. Thanks for clarifying.
The judge is obviously not prepared to condone any claim for damages in respect to psychological issues.
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So in effect, the judge has called Dr Amaral and all his witnesses liars?
Nope. They never offered evidence to suggest the book and dvd had no effect on the McCanns.
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No because the only evidence offered to say the book and dvd made their situation worse was witness evidence. If you say that was unproven you're saying they lied.
In which case she did call them liars, if what you say is correct (which it isn't, but never mind).
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The judge is obviously not prepared to condone any claim for damages.
Obviously not, because it was only the normal amount of damage caused, the amount you'd expect from any book in fact.
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In which case she did call them liars, if what you say is correct (which it isn't, but never mind).
You'd need medical evidence to quantify the damage, and to measure how it changed from what already existed previously. As far as we know they didn't provide any?
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You'd need medical evidence to quantify the damage, and to measure how it changed from what already existed previously. As far as we know they didn't provide any?
There is zip.
Like merely had a degree in the subject and was paid by for the mccanns after the initial referral.
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You'd need medical evidence to quantify the damage, and to measure how it changed from what already existed previously. As far as we know they didn't provide any?
Is medical evidence a feature of most libel trials then?
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Is medical evidence a feature of most libel trials then?
Well if you're claiming psychological/emotional damage, it would help.
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You'd need medical evidence to quantify the damage, and to measure how it changed from what already existed previously. As far as we know they didn't provide any?
absolute tosh...if someone accuses you of covering up the death of your daughter...damage is obvious and natural.....no need for a doctor...I suppose they could always ask Kate if they needed medical advice
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Is medical evidence a feature of most libel trials then?
For the damages 8(0(* You can't just demand 1m, you have to provide evidence. From what we know they presented mainly personal testimony.
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absolute tosh...if someone accuses you of covering up the death of your daughter...damage is obvious and natural.....no need for a doctor...I suppose they could always ask Kate if they needed medical advice
You would get stressed either way...guilty or innocent.
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For the damages 8(0(* You can't just demand 1m, you have to provide evidence. From what we know they presented mainly personal testimony.
Yes, and EXPERT evidence at that. Any fool can go into a witness box and say just about anything but without expert evidence it means zilt.
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You would get stressed either way...guilty or innocent.
you don't get damages if you are guilty...the mccanns have not been found guilty
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absolute tosh...if someone accuses you of covering up the death of your daughter...damage is obvious and natural.....no need for a doctor...I suppose they could always ask Kate if they needed medical advice
Their narrative is that in late 2007 and half of 2008 most of the world was already accusing them of that. So not only did they lose their daughter, they were then already accused by newspapers and commentators all over the world. If after all that you're going to say a mere book made you feel even worse then you surely have to provide some evidence? &%+((£
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Their narrative is that in late 2007 and half of 2008 most of the world was already accusing them of that. So not only did they lose their daughter, they were then already accused by newspapers and commentators all over the world. If after all that you're going to say a mere book made you feel even worse then you surely have to provide some evidence? &%+((£
the judge agrees with me ...the book caused damage
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Well if you're claiming psychological/emotional damage, it would help.
it's up to the judge...not posters on this forum thank god...and the judge says damage is proved
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the judge agrees with me ...the book caused damage
How much though &%+((£
My money is on us never finding out. Or at least not for a long while.
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you don't get damages if you are guilty...the mccanns have not been found guilty
The McCann's aren't on trial are they ?
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The McCann's aren't on trial are they ?
you need to read the post in the context it was written...context is important but repeatedly ignored on here
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The McCann's aren't on trial are they ?
It would appear the supporters are sticking their fingers in their ears and going la-la-la.
There were going to be a range of possible outcomes from all proven to all not proven, we have 4 proven with large caveats. In any sense of the word, this is not the victory the McCanns wanted.
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It would appear the supporters are sticking their fingers in their ears and going la-la-la.
There were going to be a range of possible outcomes from all proven to all not proven, we have 4 proven with large caveats. In any sense of the word, this is not the victory the McCanns wanted.
Hence the desperation on here and elsewhere.
Actually it is becoming quite sad.
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It would appear the supporters are sticking their fingers in their ears and going la-la-la.
There were going to be a range of possible outcomes from all proven to all not proven, we have 4 proven with large caveats. In any sense of the word, this is not the victory the McCanns wanted.
Indeed not, they must be very disappointed. I notice their usual mouthpiece has yet to break cover.
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Thank you to our own Montclair for showing the Portugal News editor the error of his ways. The link to the updated article is posted below.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/court-rules-mccanns-suffered-due-to-book-by-ex-cop-amaral/33746
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the judge agrees with me ...the book caused damage
Not on the level that compensation should be paid, that's the difference you fail to appreciate. If the judge had found Amaral culpable then she would just have said so without any clarification.
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For the damages 8(0(* You can't just demand 1m, you have to provide evidence. From what we know they presented mainly personal testimony.
We know very little.
Astro left most of the points of consideration blank.
So we can only guess.
But one of my guesses is that Astro knows ...
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For the damages 8(0(* You can't just demand 1m, you have to provide evidence. From what we know they presented mainly personal testimony.
What medical examination did Lord McAlpine have to undergo when he took Wotssername to court then?
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Not on the level that compensation should be paid, that's the difference you fail to appreciate. If the judge had found Amaral culpable then she would just have said so without any clarification.
I agree the mccanns won't get 1.2 million...but they will get damages
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I agree the mccanns won't get 1.2 million...but they will get damages
Cant see it myself. She poo poo'd all their main claims.
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What medical examination did Lord McAlpine have to undergo when he took Wotssername to court then?
That was in London?
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That was in London?
Ah, so it's only in Portugal where medical examinations are necessary in libel actions. I see...
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Cant see it myself. She poo poo'd all their main claims.
yeah, all apart from the one where she said the book caused a normal amount of damage, the amount you'd expect any book to cause.
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Ah, so it's only in Portugal where medical examinations are necessary in libel actions. I see...
If they didn't have to provide such evidence in Lisbon what did all the witnesses go there for?
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I reckon that if the McCanns only get 1 million in damages posters here will be calling it a victory for amaral
*&*%£ *&*%£
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I reckon that if the McCanns only get 1 million in damages posters here will be calling it a victory for amaral
*&*%£ *&*%£
Well if you're really,really lucky.
They won't get a penny, and won't pay Amaral's fees or the other parties, other than their own.
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If they didn't have to provide such evidence in Lisbon what did all the witnesses go there for?
I wasn't aware that they were providing evidence of medical examinations?
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What medical examination did Lord McAlpine have to undergo when he took Wotssername to court then?
McAlpine only claim defamation, not that he was caused mental problems. Bercow was defendedby CR.
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I wasn't aware that they were providing evidence of medical examinations?
I'm not sure they knew what they were there for. This may be part of the problem. &%+((£
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So you accept it's a victory... as many on this forum were claiming that the mccanns had failed to prove their case I see this as a great result...
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So you accept it's a victory... as many on this forum were claiming that the mccanns had failed to prove their case I see this as a great result...
I'm sure you do
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So you accept it's a victory... as many on this forum were claiming that the mccanns had failed to prove their case I see this as a great result...
No dave.
No victory.
No damages.
and the legal bills have yet to come.....................
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No dave.
No victory.
No damages.
and the legal bills have yet to come.....................
and you will be proved wrong
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There is no victory.
MADELEINE IS STILL MISSING.
The only people to have gained anything are the legal profession.
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and you will be proved wrong
I suppose that even if they are awarded 1 euro you will be claiming it a tremendous victory.
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There is no victory.
MADELEINE IS STILL MISSING.
The only people to have gained anything are the legal profession.
That is true.
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and you will be proved wrong
No chance.
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There is no victory.
MADELEINE IS STILL MISSING.
The only people to have gained anything are the legal profession.
I disagree,,,it's a victory for the mccanns and I'm sure it gives them a lot of satisfaction...
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I suppose that even if they are awarded 1 euro you will be claiming it a tremendous victory.
I will be claiming a victory..it's what it signifies that is important
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I will be claiming a victory..it's what it signifies that is important
Victory (if, indeed, it is victory) will signify cruel and duplicitous double-crossing of the McCanns' best efforts to find Madeleine alive and bring her home safe.
Not everyone (including on the Portuguese side!) is guilty of that charge.
And not everyone (including on the English side!) is innocent.
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There is no victory for the McCann's .
Just huge legal fees and b....r all left in the fund.
as amaral refused to settle out of court there is every chance he will have to pay the mccanns legal fees...very smart move by K&G
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The delusion of certain parties after yesterday has become quite a spectacle.
Turning humiliation into perceived victory.
If they think that is going to fool anybody they are sorely mistaken, and might be recommended to seek treatment.
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as amaral refused to settle out of court there is every chance he will have to pay the mccanns legal fees...very smart move by K&G
No chance.
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as amaral refused to settle out of court there is every chance he will have to pay the mccanns legal fees...very smart move by K&G
@)(++(*
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No chance.
I posted at the time the reason for the request to settle was to secure the legal fees
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Ah ...
31. Until today, has the documentary been reproduced only once to be edited, published and sold in Portugal under video format, in this case a DVD?
Proved.
32. The reproduction and edition of the documentary in video format have been authorised by “Valentim de Carvalho Multimédia, S.A.” to firm “Presslivre, Imprensa Livre, S.A.”, the owner of the Correio da Manhã newspaper, according to a contract between both?
Proved.
33. Under which [contract], the DVD, its covers and packages would be, as they were, manufactured on behalf of, under order of and under the responsibility of Presslivre, in order to be distributed and sold together with newspaper Correio da Manhã?
Proved.
34. And the entire process of registering and classifying the video edition (DVD) of the documentary with ICAG would be, as it was, developed by Valentim de Carvalho Multimédia, a process whose cost would be carried by Presslivre, as it did?
Proved.
35. The distribution for sale took place in conjunction with the distribution for sale of the newspaper Correio da Manhã’s edition of April 24, 2009?
It is proved only that the documentary was distributed for sale with the newspaper.
36. The documentary was reproduced, and even subtitled in the English language, by third parties that published it on the internet, without permission and against the will of the defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”?
Proved.
37. That illicit diffusion damages not only the rights that are held by defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.” over the documentary, but also its commercial exploration, because any citizen can watch the documentary, also only one “click” away?
Proved.
There were a few more.
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31. Until today, has the documentary been reproduced only once to be edited, published and sold in Portugal under video format, in this case a DVD?
Proved.
32. The reproduction and edition of the documentary in video format have been authorised by “Valentim de Carvalho Multimédia, S.A.” to firm “Presslivre, Imprensa Livre, S.A.”, the owner of the Correio da Manhã newspaper, according to a contract between both?
Proved.
33. Under which [contract], the DVD, its covers and packages would be, as they were, manufactured on behalf of, under order of and under the responsibility of Presslivre, in order to be distributed and sold together with newspaper Correio da Manhã?
Proved.
34. And the entire process of registering and classifying the video edition (DVD) of the documentary with ICAG would be, as it was, developed by Valentim de Carvalho Multimédia, a process whose cost would be carried by Presslivre, as it did?
Proved.
35. The distribution for sale took place in conjunction with the distribution for sale of the newspaper Correio da Manhã’s edition of April 24, 2009?
It is proved only that the documentary was distributed for sale with the newspaper.
36. The documentary was reproduced, and even subtitled in the English language, by third parties that published it on the internet, without permission and against the will of the defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”?
Proved.
37. That illicit diffusion damages not only the rights that are held by defendant “V.C. – Valentim de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.” over the documentary, but also its commercial exploration, because any citizen can watch the documentary, also only one “click” away?
Proved.
There were a few more.
But what do they actually prove? They merely seem to be confirmation of certain facts that weren't in contention.
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But what do they actually prove? They merely seem to be confirmation of certain facts that weren't in contention.
Precisely Jassi.
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The McCann's spent more time and money on this court case to defend their reputation... and in that process lost it in my and many others opinion.
There are no winners- Madeline is still missing - and who knows what would have happened if the Portuguese legal system and police detectives were not sneered and jeered at by the baying McCANN hyenas. "jemmied shutters indeed"! and the UK MSM.
They all made money from a little girls suffering- who knows what happened to her?
It was always about the money and reputation! No winner there, regardless of compensation- blood money!! and vulgar to pursue for it!
The book would have upset them...that goes without saying. < layman's terms!
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The McCann's spent more time and money on this court case to defend their reputation... and in that process lost it in my and many others opinion.
There are no winners- Madeline is still missing - and who knows what would have happened if the Portuguese legal system and police detectives were not sneered and jeered at by the baying McCANN hyenas. "jemmied shutters indeed"! and the UK MSM.
They all made money from a little girls suffering- who knows what happened to her?
It was always about the money and reputation! No winner there, regardless of compensation- blood money!! and vulgar to pursue for it!
The book would have upset them...that goes without saying. < layman's terms!
no winners...but certainly a loser...deservedly so...amaral
you are right...compensation will be paid...and the blood money made by amaral will paid to the fund
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"Judge: No evidence that book about Maddie "destroyed" parents"
PUBLISHED 18.40
UPDATED TODAY 20.32
A judge of the courthouse Lisbon held, on Wednesday, that the McCann couple has not been damaged because of the publication of the book "The Truth of the Lie", written by Gonçalo Amaral, where the ex - PJ coordinator argues the responsibility of Kate and Gerry in their daughter's disappearance.
Judge Emilia Melo e Castro, the assessment of the requirements of civil proceedings instituted by Kate and Gerry McCann Gonçalo Amaral for the publication of the book "Maddie, the truth of the lie," says, in order that the JN had access, that "there was proof that Kate and Gerry McCann authors are destroyed points of moral, social and ethical "with the publication of the book
Recognizing that the British couple felt "anger, despair and anguish," the magistrate said not possible, "from the available evidence, to discern" where the alleged damage attributed to Gonçalo Amaral are "a consequence of the disappearance of Madeleine" or "effect book. "
Melo e Castro said that "the family point of view the evidence revealed a successful effort cohesion" of the couple. It also found that "the sentimental / emotional point of view is not credible that the consequences of the facts of these proceedings will to the point of destruction or well beyond the pain caused by the disappearance of the daughter of those authors."
Gonçalo Amaral, told JN that he is satisfied with the decision of the magistrate, pointing out that "what was at issue was proving or disproving facts".
http://www.jn.pt/Dossies/dossie.aspx?content_id=4357454&dossier=O%20caso%20Maddie%20McCann
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"Judge: No evidence that book about Maddie "destroyed" parents"
PUBLISHED 18.40
UPDATED TODAY 20.32
A judge of the courthouse Lisbon held, on Wednesday, that the McCann couple has not been damaged because of the publication of the book "The Truth of the Lie", written by Gonçalo Amaral, where the ex - PJ coordinator argues the responsibility of Kate and Gerry in their daughter's disappearance.
Judge Emilia Melo e Castro, the assessment of the requirements of civil proceedings instituted by Kate and Gerry McCann Gonçalo Amaral for the publication of the book "Maddie, the truth of the lie," says, in order that the JN had access, that "there was proof that Kate and Gerry McCann authors are destroyed points of moral, social and ethical "with the publication of the book
Recognizing that the British couple felt "anger, despair and anguish," the magistrate said not possible, "from the available evidence, to discern" where the alleged damage attributed to Gonçalo Amaral are "a consequence of the disappearance of Madeleine" or "effect book. "
Melo e Castro said that "the family point of view the evidence revealed a successful effort cohesion" of the couple. It also found that "the sentimental / emotional point of view is not credible that the consequences of the facts of these proceedings will to the point of destruction or well beyond the pain caused by the disappearance of the daughter of those authors."
Gonçalo Amaral, told JN that he is satisfied with the decision of the magistrate, pointing out that "what was at issue was proving or disproving facts".
http://www.jn.pt/Dossies/dossie.aspx?content_id=4357454&dossier=O%20caso%20Maddie%20McCann
we know what the judge said...and it wasn't that
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we know what the judge said...and it wasn't that
Cuckoo 8(*(
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we know what the judge said...and it wasn't that
So every paper except the Express has got it wrong ? Is that what you are trying to say ?
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The McCann's spent more time and money on this court case to defend their reputation... and in that process lost it in my and many others opinion.
There are no winners- Madeline is still missing - and who knows what would have happened if the Portuguese legal system and police detectives were not sneered and jeered at by the baying McCANN hyenas. "jemmied shutters indeed"! and the UK MSM.
They all made money from a little girls suffering- who knows what happened to her?
It was always about the money and reputation! No winner there, regardless of compensation- blood money!! and vulgar to pursue for it!
The book would have upset them...that goes without saying. < layman's terms!
They're fighting for what history will say about the case (to their other children), Miss Taken, which means erasing/discrediting as much as possible of what was said before 2011. Obviously no easy task in a case as unique and high profile as this one.
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So every paper except the Express has got it wrong ? Is that what you are trying to say ?
If you actually read what each paper says...apart from this one...they have it right...each gives its own spin but no one can deny the judge ruled the book has damaged the mccanns.
Remember a glass can be half full or half empty.. .yet full and empty are opposites
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If you actually read what each paper says...apart from this one...they have it right...each gives its own spin but no one can deny the judge ruled the book has damaged the mccanns.
Remember a glass can be half full or half empty.. .yet full and empty are opposites
Nicely put.
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If you actually read what each paper says...apart from this one...they have it right...each gives its own spin but no one can deny the judge ruled the book has damaged the mccanns.
Remember a glass can be half full or half empty.. .yet full and empty are opposites
?>)()< Technically speaking a glass is always full.
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?>)()< Technically speaking a glass is always full.
like a lot of things on here it's a matter of opinion
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Remember a glass can be half full or half empty.. .yet full and empty are opposites
Are you suggesting it was a draw? &%+((£
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Are you suggesting it was a draw? &%+((£
Someone has won on a split decision, we're just not sure who.
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Someone has won on a split decision, we're just not sure who.
And we've got two whole months left in which to argue about it, isn't it marvellous? @)(++(*
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And we've got two whole months left in which to argue about it, isn't it marvellous? @)(++(*
What's everyone going to do if we never find out? Explode most likely.
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What's everyone going to do if we never find out? Explode most likely.
Old soldiers never die, etc.
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Are you suggesting it was a draw? &%+((£
McCanns have won...and will be paid damages.
Part of the case required..
The books to be removed from sale
amaral not to repeat his claims
The books are no longer on sale...amaral is quiet..
what happened to all his books that were returned...where are they
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McCanns have won...and will be paid damages.
Part of the case required..
The books to be removed from sale
amaral not to repeat his claims
The books are no longer on sale...amaral is quiet..
what happened to all his books that were returned...where are they
You've been spending too much time in the twilight zone.
The mccanns haven't won anything.
They haven'y proved their case and were unable to provide any medical evidence as you well know, into showing any psychological damage.
Your persistence in these claims will lead to inevitable conclusions. 8**8:/:
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You've been spending too much time in the twilight zone.
The mccanns haven't won anything.
They haven'y proved their case and were unable to provide any medical evidence as you well know, into showing any psychological damage.
Your persistence in these claims will lead to inevitable conclusions. 8**8:/:
The judge said damage has been proved
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McCanns have won...and will be paid damages.
Part of the case required..
The books to be removed from sale
amaral not to repeat his claims
The books are no longer on sale...amaral is quiet..
Was March the given date for the result?
I thought it was February?
what happened to all his books that were returned...where are they
I guess everything is subject to appeal.
I couldn't fathom what basis of appeal there might be.
But apparently, there is one ...
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The judge said damage has been proved
What damage dave ?
Many of the mccanns claims were dismissed.
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I guess everything is subject to appeal.
I couldn't fathom what basis of appeal there might be.
But apparently, there is one ...
is amaral talking of an appeal?
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is amaral talking of an appeal?
Someone whose opinion I respect believes Amaral could find a basis of appeal.
Whether he will is another question.
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I guess everything is subject to appeal.
I couldn't fathom what basis of appeal there might be.
But apparently, there is one ...
Appeal is a possibility FM, but Amaral is said to be Also..........
Extract:-
Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him.
- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/amaral-supporters-optimistic-following-judge%E2%80%99s-rulings-in-mccanns%E2%80%99-libel-case#sthash.vfPUP9mV.dpuf
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Appeal is a possibility FM, but Amaral is said to be Also..........
Extract:-
Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him.
- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/amaral-supporters-optimistic-following-judge%E2%80%99s-rulings-in-mccanns%E2%80%99-libel-case#sthash.vfPUP9mV.dpuf
he said this before the verdict....and has been saying similar things for 6 yrs
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he said this before the verdict....and has been saying similar things for 6 yrs
He has said it again, in the last few days.
He would however have had to wait until all other active court cases had ceased.
If he did claim damages on a defamation case, against the McCanns, would he not have to do it in the UK?
I also wondered if a libel action could be brought against the book and other items relating to amaral, that is freely online here in Uk?
Just wondered. Any thoughts?
The injunction on the book that was overturned in a higher court, means that his book is legal in Portugal....but I doubt that would be the case here?
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He has said it again, in the last few days.
He would however have had to wait until all other active court cases had ceased.
If he did claim damages on a defamation case, against the McCanns, would he not have to do it in the UK?
I also wondered if a libel action could be brought against the book and other items relating to amaral, that is freely online here in Uk?
Just wondered. Any thoughts?
The injunction on the book that was overturned in a higher court, means that his book is legal in Portugal....but I doubt that would be the case here?
You could only sue websites in the UK that hosted the book not GA. It was proved in the trial that unauthorised online copies of the book impacted the PT profits.
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You could only sue websites in the UK that hosted the book not GA. It was proved in the trial that unauthorised online copies of the book impacted the PT profits.
So the free books etc online, affected their sales in PT (all unauthorised material) .....and nobody done anything about it?
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Appeal is a possibility FM, but Amaral is said to be Also..........
Extract:-
Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him.
- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/amaral-supporters-optimistic-following-judge%E2%80%99s-rulings-in-mccanns%E2%80%99-libel-case#sthash.vfPUP9mV.dpuf
That was plain daft.
That Amaral might appeal against the final (or as it would then be, interim) decision in the libel trial is feasible.
But what basis of appeal he would have, I've no idea.
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That was plain daft.
That Amaral might appeal against the final (or as it would then be, interim) decision in the libel trial is feasible.
But what basis of appeal he would have, I've no idea.
Before getting too excited, perhaps consider who authored this piece?
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That was plain daft.
That Amaral might appeal against the final (or as it would then be, interim) decision in the libel trial is feasible.
But what basis of appeal he would have, I've no idea.
Yes all very strange indeed. We will just have wait and see, I guess.
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That was plain daft.
That Amaral might appeal against the final (or as it would then be, interim) decision in the libel trial is feasible.
But what basis of appeal he would have, I've no idea.
The author wrote that Gonçalo Amaral is considering suing the McCanns for damages, he did not mention anything about appeals.
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The author wrote that Gonçalo Amaral is considering suing the McCanns for damages, he did not mention anything about appeals.
Who said, the Author mentioned appeal, MC?
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Before getting too excited, perhaps consider who authored this piece?
Amaral was reported elsewhere of having said that (if you're referring to his toying with the idea of suing thej McCanns for damages to him).
Just found where I may have seen that before. It was also by Len Port.
...Towards the end of his statement, he revealed that he is considering filing a lawsuit against the McCann couple and others, “in order to be compensated for the enormous damages that they have caused me already, on all levels, such as moral, professional and financial.”
Mr Amaral concluded: “The time to judicially react to all those who have put my privacy, my intimacy, my freedom of expression and opinion, and my survival conditions at stake is approaching.
“They have tried to assassinate me civilly, but due to the support and solidarity of all of you, they were not successful.”
http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.ch/2014/07/amaral-hits-back-at-mccanns-claims.html
ETA: Further up on that blog post, it was apparently in a Facebook post he wrote to his supporters.
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Seems even Expresso's ( that staunch defender of all things McCann) has gone over to the dark side.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/tribunal-deu-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann=f907445
Gonçalo Amaral's book "did not destroy" the McCanns
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Amaral was reported elsewhere of having said that (if you're referring to his toying with the idea of suing thej McCanns for damages to him).
Just found where I may have seen that before. It was also by Len Port.
...Towards the end of his statement, he revealed that he is considering filing a lawsuit against the McCann couple and others, “in order to be compensated for the enormous damages that they have caused me already, on all levels, such as moral, professional and financial.”
Mr Amaral concluded: “The time to judicially react to all those who have put my privacy, my intimacy, my freedom of expression and opinion, and my survival conditions at stake is approaching.
“They have tried to assassinate me civilly, but due to the support and solidarity of all of you, they were not successful.”
http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.ch/2014/07/amaral-hits-back-at-mccanns-claims.html
So if they weren't successful what is he complaining about? Isn't this the same as is being said about his book?
If his book didn't destroy The McCanns and The McCanns and Supporters didn't destroy Amaral, by Amaral's own admission, then what is the argument for Damages?
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So if they weren't successful what is he complaining about? Isn't this the same as is being said about his book?
If his book didn't destroy The McCanns and The McCanns and Supporters didn't destroy Amaral, by Amaral's own admission, then what is the argument for Damages?
Amaral was certainly damaged from a financial view.
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The only damage to the McCann's was the result of their actions.
Amaral's book is out there on the net and still for sale.
That won't change, and the fact that certain newspapers have been economical with the judges conclusions will only add to the belief that the McCann's are being protected.
In the real world likewise, the cause of Madeleine's disappearance remains unknown, regardless of the propaganda of abduction, which has gone nowhere.
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Amaral was certainly damaged from a financial view.
Yeah!
All that money he's going to lose as a result of being punished for flogging his fiction in various forms (book, interviews video etc.)
Poor lamb ...
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Amaral was certainly damaged from a financial view.
I thought his book was supposed to be about Amaral's Honour. So now it is about Money?
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Yeah!
All that money he's going to lose as a result of being punished for flogging his fiction in various forms (book, interviews video etc.)
Poor lamb ...
You like your fantasies ferryman.
Let's see your reaction when the McCann's pay the extensive legal bills.
*&*%£
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You like your fantasies ferryman.
Let's see your reaction when the McCann's pay the extensive legal bills.
*&*%£
On the other hand, let's see when Amaral gets landed with the extensive legal bills.
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I thought his book was supposed to be about Amaral's Honour. So now it is about Money?
When the individuals suing you want nothing less than the shirt off of your back I'm sure money becomes a consideration too.
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When the individuals suing you want nothing less than the shirt off of your back I'm sure money becomes a consideration too.
When a crooked (now ex!) cop investigates you and attempts to put you behind bars for the crimes of others against your beloved daughter, the natural instinct is to fight back against that injustice.
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On the other hand, let's see when Amaral gets landed with the extensive legal bills.
In your dreams.
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Seems even Expresso's ( that staunch defender of all things McCann) has gone over to the dark side.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/tribunal-deu-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann=f907445
Gonçalo Amaral's book "did not destroy" the McCanns
I dont care what any media article or any Judge says, we have all witnessed the way that Kate spiralled down after that damnable book with its acussations.
What about the money that the Mccanns have lost thru Kate being unable to work after all the lies, from Amaral and Co?
She clearly has been mentally overwhelmed by the foul stuff put about.
What about the money they have lost ? They have done nothing dodgy like Amaral, yet the Judge says such puerile things about The Mccanns
She is a Melo and Castro. Astro probably is a Castro too
..... but apart from that the names are very interesting. IMO.
Bloodlines are VERY important with these people.
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When a crooked (now ex!) cop investigates you and attempts to put you behind bars for the crimes of others against your beloved daughter, the natural instinct is to fight back against that injustice.
From the direction Rebelo took the investigation it seems he concurred with Amaral's suspicions.
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On the other hand, let's see when Amaral gets landed with the extensive legal bills.
Shouldn't be a problem for him to settle. The various funds set up for him over the years should go a long way towards addressing them ... and any shortfall can be easily addressed if followers hit the paypal button yet again as they no doubt did after his last failed, expensive excursion into the libel courts.
Dr Amaral's lawyer can rest easy that he will be paid with the proceeds of a fund which we could probably say was not fraudulent if there was any transparency.
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I dont care what any media article or any Judge says, we have all witnessed the way that Kate spiralled down after that damnable book with its acussations.
What about the money that the Mccanns have lost thru Kate being unable to work after all the lies, from Amaral and Co?
She clearly has been mentally overwhelmed by the foul stuff put about.
What about the money they have lost ? They have done nothing dodgy like Amaral, yet the Judge says such puerile things about The Mccanns
Seems Kate had decided not to go back to work long before the book was published.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568014/Gerry-McCann-returns-to-work.html
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I dont care what any media article or any Judge says, we have all witnessed the way that Kate spiralled down after that damnable book with its acussations.
What about the money that the Mccanns have lost thru Kate being unable to work after all the lies, from Amaral and Co?
She clearly has been mentally overwhelmed by the foul stuff put about.
What about the money they have lost ? They have done nothing dodgy like Amaral, yet the Judge says such puerile things about The Mccanns
She is a Melo and Castro. Astro probably is a Castro too
..... but apart from that the names are very interesting. IMO.
Bloodlines are VERY important with these people.
Cobblers.
Nobody stopped her working.
It didn't stop her spouse working.
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From the direction Rebelo took the investigation it seems he concurred with Amaral's suspicions.
Nope.
Read Joao Carlos' final report for the PJ.
At the time of the Smith sighting, Gerry was in the tapas restaurant.
And we reasonably infer from the fact that Martin Smith, after initial refusal, agreed to produce an e-fit, that he recanted of the view that the Smiths all saw Gerry that night.
Of course, from the outset, all Mr Smith's children disagreed that the man was Gerry.
That just leaves squalid uneducated and obscene guesses such as [ moderated ] for the uncouth to cling on to ...
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From the direction Rebelo took the investigation it seems he concurred with Amaral's suspicions.
Not necessarily. Rebelo inherited a situation with three arguidos and ticking clock.
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In your dreams.
I'm fairly sure amaral will get landed with extensive legal bills on the basis that he refused to settle out of court...
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I'm fairly sure amaral will get landed with extensive legal bills on the basis that he refused to settle out of court...
No dave.
Dream on, and on ,and on, and on..........
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Not necessarily. Rebelo inherited a situation with three arguidos and ticking clock.
IMO if Rebelo had been tasked initially with Madeleine McCann's case she would have had much more of a chance of being recovered if alive or if dead, the perp apprehended.
I think the first thing he or any competent police officer would have done would have been to quietly investigate Madeleine's parents and their friends to rule them in or out.
I also believe there would have been no drip of pejorative information against the parents to journalists on his watch.
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IMO if Rebelo had been tasked initially with Madeleine McCann's case she would have had much more of a chance of being recovered if alive or if dead, the perp apprehended.
I think the first thing he or any competent police officer would have done would have been to quietly investigate Madeleine's parents and their friends to rule them in or out.
I also believe there would have been no drip of pejorative information against the parents to journalists on his watch.
Inclined to agree with that.
I think Rebelo was a proper policeman who would actually have listened to those around him who understood the dogs and how to interpret the dogs' reactions.
I also think he would have read the reports properly and understood that there was no "preliminary" FSS report ...
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Nobody is saying that anything untoward has happened, but I must admit the fact that the Judge effectively says that The Mccanns were not affected other than normal by the book is extremely strange, when it accused them of hiding the body of their beloved daughter and intimated that Madeleine died in the apartment [? at their hands?].
We have all witnessed the change in kate after the book was out. Poor woman, what an accusation to have made against her.
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Nobody is saying that anything untoward has happened, but I must admit the fact that the Judge effectively says that The Mccanns were not affected other than normal by the book is extremely strange, when it accused them of hiding the body of their beloved daughter and intimated that Madeleine died in the apartment [? at their hands?].
We have all witnessed the change in kate after the book was out. Poor woman, what an accusation to have made against her.
Or a guilty conscience because of neglecting her children to socialize, and the disappearance of her elder offspring.
Meanwhile the reason for Madeleine's disappearance remains 'unknown'.
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We have all witnessed the change in kate after the book was out. Poor woman, what an accusation to have made against her.
Guilt has a terrible way of finding weaknesses in an already weakened persona. In reality, the publication of Mr Amaral's book would have created the same result whether the parents were saviours or sinners.
If the former, the shame and embarrassment at being accused wrongly would have been a dire cross to bear.
If the latter, the stress of being caught out would have created the same conditions mentioned by the judge namely permanent anguish, insomnia, anxiety and indefinable fear.
The difficulty for psychologists is that they are indistinguishable from each other.
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Now that the judge has pointed out that Dr Amaral could have broken judicial secrecy laws are we going to see if their alleged "strictness" will be tested by a Portuguese police investigation?
**snip
A source close to case had originally been quoted by Lusa News Agency as stating that " it was proven that damage was caused as direct result by the book's publication", who also confirmed that the judge ruled that the book "contains information from the actual case", which could constitute a breach of Portugal’s strict secrecy laws. http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
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Guilt has a terrible way of finding weaknesses in an already weakened persona. In reality, the publication of Mr Amaral's book would have created the same result whether the parents were saviours or sinners.
There does not have to be the slightest hint of guilt directed at them for the families of missing or murdered children to be totally destroyed as a unit or as individuals.
Dr Amaral's book and his subsequent media career based on it is something which the families of other missing children have never had to endure.
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It would depend upon someone being interested in pursuing the case. I believe these things are determined by the judiciary, rather then the police.
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Guilt has a terrible way of finding weaknesses in an already weakened persona. In reality, the publication of Mr Amaral's book would have created the same result whether the parents were saviours or sinners.
If the former, the shame and embarrassment at being accused wrongly would have been a dire cross to bear.
If the latter, the stress of being caught out would have created the same conditions mentioned by the judge namely permanent anguish, insomnia, anxiety and indefinable fear.
The difficulty for psychologists is that they are indistinguishable from each other.
so as the judge has said...the book caused the McCanns damage.. though some are trying to pretend otherwise
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Now that the judge has pointed out that Dr Amaral could have broken judicial secrecy laws are we going to see if their alleged "strictness" will be tested by a Portuguese police investigation?
**snip
A source close to case had originally been quoted by Lusa News Agency as stating that " it was proven that damage was caused as direct result by the book's publication", who also confirmed that the judge ruled that the book "contains information from the actual case", which could constitute a breach of Portugal’s strict secrecy laws. http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
If he did so while serving his suspended sentence then he would be technically in breach.
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Now that the judge has pointed out that Dr Amaral could have broken judicial secrecy laws are we going to see if their alleged "strictness" will be tested by a Portuguese police investigation?
**snip
A source close to case had originally been quoted by Lusa News Agency as stating that " it was proven that damage was caused as direct result by the book's publication", who also confirmed that the judge ruled that the book "contains information from the actual case", which could constitute a breach of Portugal’s strict secrecy laws. http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
Hmmm. AFAIK, the issue wasn't about restricted "information" as such, but about the timing of publication - i.e., that it would have been impossible for the book to have been published within days of the archival notice without others having been involved before judicial secrecy was lifted.
ETA: However, that would presumably be a criminal offence and thus off limits in a civil case.
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It would depend upon someone being interested in pursuing the case. I believe these things are determined by the judiciary, rather then the police.
Then we may expect an example of precisely how much or precisely how little weight the Portuguese Judiciary gives to Portuguese Law ... particularly a "strict" one.
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Now that the judge has pointed out that Dr Amaral could have broken judicial secrecy laws are we going to see if their alleged "strictness" will be tested by a Portuguese police investigation?
**snip
A source close to case had originally been quoted by Lusa News Agency as stating that " it was proven that damage was caused as direct result by the book's publication", who also confirmed that the judge ruled that the book "contains information from the actual case", which could constitute a breach of Portugal’s strict secrecy laws. http://theportugalnews.com/news/mccanns-get-favourable-ruling-over-ex-cop-amaral/33746?
The judge never mentioned anything about the judicial secrecy laws. It had nothing to do with the case at hand.
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If he did so while serving his suspended sentence then he would be technically in breach.
That has the potential of being quite a disaster for him.
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The judge never mentioned anything about the judicial secrecy laws. It had nothing to do with the case at hand.
Wrong!
It is Amaral's breach of the secrecy laws in writing his book that rules out what might otherwise save Amaral in the libel action, the status known as to s/he who is willing, no harm can come.
That status, where it applies, effectively annuls the law of libel ...
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If he did so while serving his suspended sentence then he would be technically in breach.
I'm not sure what you are referring to.
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The judge never mentioned anything about the judicial secrecy laws. It had nothing to do with the case at hand.
With respect Montclair ... we can only go on the information in the public domain ... some of which is from very dodgy sources indeed.
That particular one is from an accredited news agency ... so if you have a more accurate source for what the judge said ... do please share.
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Then we may expect an example of precisely how much or precisely how little weight the Portuguese Judiciary gives to Portuguese Law ... particularly a "strict" one.
Yes. Someone mentioned, the other night, that it might now be outside a time limit & that statute of limitations might apply
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With respect Montclair ... we can only go on the information in the public domain ... some of which is from very dodgy sources indeed.
That particular one is from an accredited news agency ... so if you have a more accurate source for what the judge said ... do please share.
No reporters attended Wednesdays sitting. So accredited or not, they got their info by hearsay.
At least Anne and Astro were there!
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No reporters attended Wednesdays sitting. So accredited or not, they got their info by hearsay.
At least Anne and Astro were there!
Why did Astro (at least initially) only reveal some points either proven or not proven (with all points she omitted proven)?
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So no news on the judges decision re the video and TV programme
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So no news on the judges decision re the video and TV programme
I'm sure it is the beginning of February that the judge's decision will be handed to the parties in the dispute.
End of March is the Brenda Leyland inquest ...
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Joana Morais @xklamation
Portuguese @publico newspaper corrected Team #McCann press release divulged by @Lusa_noticias : Court states the book did not harm couple.
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With respect Montclair ... we can only go on the information in the public domain ... some of which is from very dodgy sources indeed.
That particular one is from an accredited news agency ... so if you have a more accurate source for what the judge said ... do please share.
Accredited news agency?? Please! This news agency did not even have a journalist in the court room nor did it have access to the court papers. It is obvious they got their spin on the events from a certain lawyer named Isabel Duarte. Logic, my dear.
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Gonçalo Amaral’s interview on Agora Nós, RTP1, 23.01.2015
Anchor – Today, our guest is Gonçalo Amaral who was on the news again yesterday because of the lawsuit that the McCann couple filed against him. Good morning, Gonçalo.
Gonçalo Amaral – Good morning.
Anchor – I read in your book that you wrote this book to defend your honour. The first question that I have for you is: Were you in any way attacked by the McCanns before the publication of the book, or even during the investigation? Were you with them, did you question them?
Gonçalo Amaral – That is a very good question. There was indeed a series of attacks, not just directed at me but at the investigation. Those attacks came not only from the parents’ side, but also from their support staff and from journalists, English and even Portuguese. That honour was not only personal but also professional. The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Polícia Judiciária – and it’s me who defends those initial months of the investigation, and that is what the book was published for. That is one of the issues that are raised by the Lisbon Appeals Court, at the time of the injunction, which supports me, and establishes that it was licit for me to write the book.
Anchor – If you don’t mind, let’s return to the start of this story, the McCann case was the most media exposed ever, as far as the alleged abduction of a child, Madeleine McCann, is concerned. This book, “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira”, that was written by you, why was it so controversial? What does it contain?
Gonçalo Amaral – What it contains is the conclusions of the process, of a report that exists, in September of 2007, which says that at that moment of the investigation, suspicion falls upon the [McCann] couple in terms of an accidental death inside the apartment, neglect in watching over their children that had been abandoned, and the concealment of a corpse. That is in the process and with this decision, which is not a final decision, it is merely a reply to the facts that were at stake during the trial, it agrees that this was in the process.
Anchor – The process is not concluded yet, it is still ongoing –
Gonçalo Amaral – It is still in the lower court, now there will be legal arguments, then there will be a verdict –
Anchor – We are at the stage of replies to the proved facts, is that it?
Gonçalo Amaral – Proved and not proved.
Anchor – Did you question them? Did you meet them?
Gonçalo Amaral – I met them but the questioning was performed by others, by inspectors. A coordinator does not question directly, that was done by the inspectors. But I met them.
Anchor – You accompanied this process from the beginning…
Gonçalo Amaral – I accompanied the process, the investigation from the 3rd of May of 2007 until I left the investigation on the 2nd of October of 2007. I accompanied it, participating in the investigation.
Anchor – And what happened yesterday? What was the accusation –
Gonçalo Amaral – There was no accusation yesterday. Not yesterday, the day before yesterday. What was done is – there is a decision from the magistrate, the judge, saying what is proved and what is not proved. That decision says that it is not proved that I caused the couple any damages, social or psychological or moral damages. So what was being questioned, it’s not the book that causes such damages; they were already destroyed before the book. That is important. It’s important because in this kind of process, what is at stake, contrary to what the couple said, that what was at stake was the investigation, whether they are guilty or not, none of that was being discussed there. What was at stake there was whether or not that book and that documentary could be made, if they were licit or not, if they caused the couple any damages, and whether or not it was possible to establish a causal nexus between the book and the damages. And the indications that are given lead me, and my lawyer, and people who have already read the document, to believe that there may be – there may be – a favourable verdict.
Anchor – There is a contradiction between the news that came out –
Gonçalo Amaral – There is no contradiction. There is complete manipulation of the media.
Anchor – Can you clarify that?
Gonçalo Amaral - Lusa agency, since all of this began, has been taking sides – I wouldn’t say as much as they have taken the side of the couple, but they have taken the side of the couple’s lawyer. So there have been completely false news about me. I remember an article that was published in 2009 or 2010, which mentioned I was going to be tried over torture in a certain case, that I had been accused of torture. I was in Spain at that time and I called, it was already 7 or 8 p.m. and I said “Excuse me, but this is not true. I am being accused of omitting a denunciation and making a false statement, not of torture”. And the reply that I got from the Lusa journalist was that it’s them that make the news, that it was not for me to meddle with their work and that is how it’s been –
Anchor – Even though they were talking about your life.
Gonçalo Amaral – That’s another thing that happened throughout all of these years, not only the five years of this process, but since 2007 they have been rummaging… I don’t know what else there may be.
Anchor – The fact is that concerning the McCann couple, the McCann couple was never formally tried. They were never accused. So in your book we have a contradiction with the law.
Gonçalo Amaral – What is the contradiction? I don’t accuse them. I am nobody, I’m not a magistrate, I’m not the case magistrate to write up an accusation –
Anchor – But you had knowledge, you were part of the investigation –
Gonçalo Amaral – I was a technician, I’m a technician, and like anyone else, I have the right to an opinion. And as a technician, based not only on my professionalism, but also on my knowledge as a technician, I have the right to have a technical opinion. And that book contains a technical opinion, based on facts that are in the process and that the judge says are in the process. Essentially, as is said, they are in the process. Therefore, saying that they were not accused… The process was – when I left there was already a movement to have the case archived. From the moment that they are made arguidos, everything moves to shelve the case. Interest was lost; the interest was to archive the case. And they succeeded in shelving the case. It was in the couple’s interest to have the case archived, and two things happen: The couple does nothing, and they could have done something when there was a shelving, to continue into the instruction [phase] to keep the process going, for the truth to be found. You see, the conclusions that we reached were the conclusions of an investigation. And an investigation, like someone said, is always a zigzagging of the moment. And we might even have reached the end of the investigation –
Anchor – In this case, this investigation was very traumatising, very disorganised…
Gonçalo Amaral – Disorganised, in what way?
Anchor - Because nothing was concluded, so many years later the child’s whereabouts haven’t been found.
Gonçalo Amaral – Because of interferences that took place, without interferences we would have gone further. Have no doubts about that. That is why the process was archived. When the shelving took place, the couple and another person were arguidos. Any one of them could have requested the opening of the instruction and continued the process. None of them did it, the couple because they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to do it, and the other person because he received compensation from the British courts, so he didn’t do it, he was very satisfied, and now it seems that he is an arguido again. This is what happens –
Anchor - We have to ask one last question. The truth is that the McCann couple – and this is a question and not a statement – demanded compensation worth 1.2 million euro from you because of the publication of the book “A Verdade da Mentira”. This book was very controversial because it was also a success. Many people read it –
Gonçalo Amaral – Many copies were sold.
Anchor – Exactly. Many people read it and created their own opinion. Do you think that in some way that opinion drew people away from the possibility of believing in that child’s parents?
Gonçalo Amaral – No, it didn’t, quite the opposite. The book, which was successful in a way that nobody expected – the contract with the editor was even made based on sales targets, 10 thousand books sold would mean a certain percentage and so on – therefore a very normal contract, nobody was thinking about bestsellers or anything like that. What the book brought was more publicity for the case. And people were not drawn away. There are many people who still defend the couple’s thesis. There are other people – those diverging opinions already existed before the book. They already existed practically before the book. What motivates the couple to file the lawsuit of 1.2 million euro may be the money. They have a firm, a firm where they are members of the board, called Madeleine Fund, which is to look for their daughter, but they are members of the board, it’s a firm, it’s not a social association, or social solidarity, it’s a firm, it’s registered in England as a firm. And what they always wanted was to destabilise me. When they went to Oprah’s programme in the United States, they said it, they wrote on their website that they hope that now nobody believes in that person anymore, for this and that –
Anchor – But Gonçalo, they had to defend themselves with the weapons at hand, if they think they are innocent…
Gonçalo Amaral – Indeed they do. I will give you one example. We speak about the book and we speak about the documentary. We forget another detail. In 2009, in January of 2009, I lived in the Algarve and was indicated to run for mayor of Olhão on behalf of the Social Democratic Party [PSD]. And that alerted that family, that situation of destabilising me, and Mr Gerald McCann came to Lisbon, there’s news from that time, he met with a top political official from PSD who has a French surname, with Dr Rogério Alves and with Dr Isabel Duarte – this is what is said, it’s what was published – and what happened then was that PSD gave me up as a candidate. This puts rights at stake, the rights of a citizen, the rights of a Portuguese citizen, and someone comes from the outside to do it. It’s the right to be elected. And this is when they start thinking about the lawsuit. It’s not about what is in the book, what is in the documentary, because what the book and the documentary contain is what is in the process. They contain technical opinions. And it’s the fear of that issue – when they come over here and put the right to be elected at stake, with the acquiescence of people inside PSD, that this happened.
Anchor – Thank you very much, Gonçalo. Our time is short but this is a subject that we would like to discuss in more depth. We will continue to follow this because the process is still in its early stages.
Gonçalo Amaral – There is no motive to get too excited, but it’s a good indication of what may be the decision.
Anchor – Thank you for joining us today.
video: http://www.rtp.pt/play/p1629/e180119/agora-nos/405316 - interview starts at 22:43
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Alfred:
Goncalo says:
That decision says that it is not proved that I caused the couple any damages, social or psychological or moral damages
The Judge says
Quote
13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
Yes, the judge doesn't dispute that the McCanns have been damaged, and certainly doesn't dispute that Amaral's book is littered with lies, half-truths and outright fabrications.
The point of contention seems to be whether the damage was caused by the book or by the process.
Since the process damaged the McCanns, in large part, by incompetent mismanagement of the process, and in particular, incompetent interpretation of the forensic results, that appears to let Amaral's book off a large part of the hook.
Lucky (for Amaral).
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Alfred:
Goncalo says:
That decision says that it is not proved that I caused the couple any damages, social or psychological or moral damages
The Judge says
Quote
13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
Yes, the judge doesn't dispute that the McCanns have been damaged, and certainly doesn't dispute that Amaral's book is littered with lies, half-truths and outright fabrications.
The point of contention seems to be whether the damage was caused by the book or by the process.
Since the process damaged the McCanns, in large part, by incompetent mismanagement of the process, and in particular, incompetent interpretation of the forensic results, that appears to let Amaral's book off a large part of the hook.
Lucky (for Amaral).
And all the garbled leaks from the PJ under his watch, which presumably won't be taken into account in this trial.
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Alfred:
Goncalo says:
That decision says that it is not proved that I caused the couple any damages, social or psychological or moral damages
The Judge says
Quote
13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
Yes, the judge doesn't dispute that the McCanns have been damaged, and certainly doesn't dispute that Amaral's book is littered with lies, half-truths and outright fabrications.
The point of contention seems to be whether the damage was caused by the book or by the process.
Since the process damaged the McCanns, in large part, by incompetent mismanagement of the process, and in particular, incompetent interpretation of the forensic results, that appears to let Amaral's book off a large part of the hook.
Lucky (for Amaral).
If it is correct that it doesn't matter under PT law that the book contains lies - then that explains why it is so difficult to win a libel case in Portugal. The opposite is the case in this country.
I'm thinking of the Judge's reply to Gerry regarding the claims made about the dogs in the book being untrue. Didn't she say that the truth or otherwise of those claims was not an issue to be considered? (or words to that effect).
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If it is correct that it doesn't matter under PT law that the book contains lies - then that explains why it is so difficult to win a libel case in Portugal. The opposite is the case in this country.
I'm thinking of the Judge's reply to Gerry regarding the claims made about the dogs in the book being untrue. Didn't she say that the truth or otherwise of those claims was not an issue to be considered? (or words to that effect).
Questions of truth or untruth do matter in any court proceedings -- and particularly in a libel trial. How can they not? If you could tell lies that lower reputation and yet not be guilty of libel, that would negate the libel laws.
I think the key point, here, is what is covered by the remit of the McCanns' action. Their action is against the book, against the film and against Amaral's pronouncements in various interviews.
So was it (as the McCanns claim) Amaral's pronouncements in these various outlets that caused their damage?
Or was it the actual process which declared them arguidos?
The judge seems to tend to the view that it was the process rather than Amaral's various pronouncements that caused the damage.
Which lets Amaral off (at least a part) of the hook.
But not all of it ...
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http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/interview-with-ex-coordinator.html?spref=tw
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None of them did it, the couple because they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to do it, and the other person because he received compensation from the British courts, so he didn’t do it, he was very satisfied, and now it seems that he is an arguido again.
Murat was interviewed as a witness, wasn't he? i don't recall reading anything about him being made an arguido again...
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Alfred:
Goncalo says:
That decision says that it is not proved that I caused the couple any damages, social or psychological or moral damages
The Judge says
Quote
13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
Yes, the judge doesn't dispute that the McCanns have been damaged, and certainly doesn't dispute that Amaral's book is littered with lies, half-truths and outright fabrications.
The point of contention seems to be whether the damage was caused by the book or by the process.
Since the process damaged the McCanns, in large part, by incompetent mismanagement of the process, and in particular, incompetent interpretation of the forensic results, that appears to let Amaral's book off a large part of the hook.
Lucky (for Amaral).
Why didn't you post the entire text:
11. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine MacCann?
Not proved.
12. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them?
Not proved.
13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
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If it is correct that it doesn't matter under PT law that the book contains lies - then that explains why it is so difficult to win a libel case in Portugal. The opposite is the case in this country.
I'm thinking of the Judge's reply to Gerry regarding the claims made about the dogs in the book being untrue. Didn't she say that the truth or otherwise of those claims was not an issue to be considered? (or words to that effect).
Who determines that they are lies?
The judge seemed to indicate that isn't the court's job.
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13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate MacCann and Gerald MacCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear?
Proved.
The judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
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Thank you very much for posting that interview, Montclair; I haven't had time to study it in any depth at the moment nor watch the video.
My initial impression is not so much what Dr Amaral is saying ... but the tone of and the questions being asked by the anchor ... IMO far removed from fawning anchors and interviews of the past.
I think there is a change in attitude to the Drs McCann in Portugal, I think people are realising there is more than one side to Madeleine McCann's story ... for example a statement like ... Anchor – In this case, this investigation was very traumatising, very disorganised … is unheard of.
It has been a long time coming ... unless Isabel Duarte has 'got at' the anchor too,
On the contrary, the questions from the anchor were very good and pertinent because they gave Gonçalo Amaral the opportunity to refute certain arguments that had been put out by certain parties and also to explain the civil case in a clear and understandable manner.
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None of them did it, the couple because they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to do it, and the other person because he received compensation from the British courts, so he didn’t do it, he was very satisfied, and now it seems that he is an arguido again.
Murat was interviewed as a witness, wasn't he? i don't recall reading anything about him being made an arguido again...
Still telling his porkies I see.
Gonçalo Amaral – I met them but the questioning was performed by others, by inspectors. A coordinator does not question directly, that was done by the inspectors. But I met them.
Good to see him still spouting his mouth off, the case isn't finished yet. Hope the judge is watching him.
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If Amaral is saying that he met the McCanns, who is contradicting that by saying that he didn't?
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Things didn't go to plan.
Hmmm.
http://portuguese-american-journal.com/update-kate-and-gerry-mccann-suffer-legal-setback-portugal/
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Things didn't go to plan.
Hmmm.
http://portuguese-american-journal.com/update-kate-and-gerry-mccann-suffer-legal-setback-portugal/
Have you noticed how, in the report from Astro and others including the one you link, the word libel is hard to find?
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Have you noticed how, in the report from Astro and others including the one you link, the word libel is hard to find?
Does this count?
Anne Guedes: Libel Damages Trial Reports direct from Court House, Starting 12 September 2013
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AnneGuedes.htm
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Does this count?
Anne Guedes: Libel Damages Trial Reports direct from Court House, Starting 12 September 2013
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AnneGuedes.htm
I rather think I was referring to the content of recent reports, like since 21st January 2015, rather than an a months old heading on a website. 8(0(*
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Have you noticed how, in the report from Astro and others including the one you link, the word libel is hard to find?
I think astro and others will be avoiding the word libel like a plague seeing as some are claiming this trial will not decide libel. Libel is an English word so will not be found in the court judgement. What we have seen is " damage" and the EU court speaks of damage to reputation...not libel...so lets see if the McCanns are awarded damages for damage to reputation...then you and others can claim this trial is not about libel.
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I think astro and others will be avoiding the word libel like a plague seeing as some are claiming this trial will not decide libel. Libel is an English word so will not be found in the court judgement. What we have seen is " damage" and the EU court speaks of damage to reputation...not libel...so lets see if the McCanns are awarded damages for damage to reputation...then you and others can claim this trial is not about libel.
How can you award damages to people who damaged themselves by the neglect of their children ?
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How can you award damages to people who damaged themselves by the neglect of their children ?
The judge...and everybody else ...understands...even if you don't
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I think astro and others will be avoiding the word libel like a plague seeing as some are claiming this trial will not decide libel. Libel is an English word so will not be found in the court judgement. What we have seen is " damage" and the EU court speaks of damage to reputation...not libel...so lets see if the McCanns are awarded damages for damage to reputation...then you and others can claim this trial is not about libel.
Don't think I said that old stick.
Portuguese word for libel = libelo
Portuguese word for damage = dano
I see the similarity.
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Don't think I said that old stick.
Portuguese word for libel = libelo
Portuguese word for damage = dano
I see the similarity.
try reading the post again
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The judge...and everybody else ...understands...even if you don't
Don't be obtuse Dave.
The McCann's are responsible for leaving their children in a dangerous situation.
That has nothing to do with Amaral.
He made an hypothesis, which has not been disproved.
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Don't be obtuse Dave.
The McCann's are responsible for leaving their children in a dangerous a situation.
That has nothing to do with Amaral.
He made an hypothesis, which has not been disproved.
another one who doesn't understand the law
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Don't think I said that old stick.
Portuguese word for libel = libelo
Portuguese word for damage = dano
I see the similarity.
article 180 of the penal code is not "libelo"...does that help
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[ moderated ]
Meanwhile stop the myths have stopped claiming a McCann victory at the trial.
Do you concur ? *&*%£
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Gonçalo Amaral’s interview on Agora Nós, RTP1, 23.01.2015
Anchor – Today, our guest is Gonçalo Amaral who was on the news again yesterday because of the lawsuit that the McCann couple filed against him. Good morning, Gonçalo.
Gonçalo Amaral – Good morning.
Anchor – I read in your book that you wrote this book to defend your honour. The first question that I have for you is: Were you in any way attacked by the McCanns before the publication of the book, or even during the investigation? Were you with them, did you question them?
Gonçalo Amaral – That is a very good question. There was indeed a series of attacks, not just directed at me but at the investigation. Those attacks came not only from the parents’ side, but also from their support staff and from journalists, English and even Portuguese. That honour was not only personal but also professional. The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Polícia Judiciária – and it’s me who defends those initial months of the investigation, and that is what the book was published for. That is one of the issues that are raised by the Lisbon Appeals Court, at the time of the injunction, which supports me, and establishes that it was licit for me to write the book.
Anchor – If you don’t mind, let’s return to the start of this story, the McCann case was the most media exposed ever, as far as the alleged abduction of a child, Madeleine McCann, is concerned. This book, “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira”, that was written by you, why was it so controversial? What does it contain?
Gonçalo Amaral – What it contains is the conclusions of the process, of a report that exists, in September of 2007, which says that at that moment of the investigation, suspicion falls upon the [McCann] couple in terms of an accidental death inside the apartment, neglect in watching over their children that had been abandoned, and the concealment of a corpse. That is in the process and with this decision, which is not a final decision, it is merely a reply to the facts that were at stake during the trial, it agrees that this was in the process.
Anchor – The process is not concluded yet, it is still ongoing –
Gonçalo Amaral – It is still in the lower court, now there will be legal arguments, then there will be a verdict –
Anchor – We are at the stage of replies to the proved facts, is that it?
Gonçalo Amaral – Proved and not proved.
Anchor – Did you question them? Did you meet them?
Gonçalo Amaral – I met them but the questioning was performed by others, by inspectors. A coordinator does not question directly, that was done by the inspectors. But I met them.
Anchor – You accompanied this process from the beginning…
Gonçalo Amaral – I accompanied the process, the investigation from the 3rd of May of 2007 until I left the investigation on the 2nd of October of 2007. I accompanied it, participating in the investigation.
Anchor – And what happened yesterday? What was the accusation –
Gonçalo Amaral – There was no accusation yesterday. Not yesterday, the day before yesterday. What was done is – there is a decision from the magistrate, the judge, saying what is proved and what is not proved. That decision says that it is not proved that I caused the couple any damages, social or psychological or moral damages. So what was being questioned, it’s not the book that causes such damages; they were already destroyed before the book. That is important. It’s important because in this kind of process, what is at stake, contrary to what the couple said, that what was at stake was the investigation, whether they are guilty or not, none of that was being discussed there. What was at stake there was whether or not that book and that documentary could be made, if they were licit or not, if they caused the couple any damages, and whether or not it was possible to establish a causal nexus between the book and the damages. And the indications that are given lead me, and my lawyer, and people who have already read the document, to believe that there may be – there may be – a favourable verdict.
Anchor – There is a contradiction between the news that came out –
Gonçalo Amaral – There is no contradiction. There is complete manipulation of the media.
Anchor – Can you clarify that?
Gonçalo Amaral - Lusa agency, since all of this began, has been taking sides – I wouldn’t say as much as they have taken the side of the couple, but they have taken the side of the couple’s lawyer. So there have been completely false news about me. I remember an article that was published in 2009 or 2010, which mentioned I was going to be tried over torture in a certain case, that I had been accused of torture. I was in Spain at that time and I called, it was already 7 or 8 p.m. and I said “Excuse me, but this is not true. I am being accused of omitting a denunciation and making a false statement, not of torture”. And the reply that I got from the Lusa journalist was that it’s them that make the news, that it was not for me to meddle with their work and that is how it’s been –
Anchor – Even though they were talking about your life.
Gonçalo Amaral – That’s another thing that happened throughout all of these years, not only the five years of this process, but since 2007 they have been rummaging… I don’t know what else there may be.
Anchor – The fact is that concerning the McCann couple, the McCann couple was never formally tried. They were never accused. So in your book we have a contradiction with the law.
Gonçalo Amaral – What is the contradiction? I don’t accuse them. I am nobody, I’m not a magistrate, I’m not the case magistrate to write up an accusation –
Anchor – But you had knowledge, you were part of the investigation –
Gonçalo Amaral – I was a technician, I’m a technician, and like anyone else, I have the right to an opinion. And as a technician, based not only on my professionalism, but also on my knowledge as a technician, I have the right to have a technical opinion. And that book contains a technical opinion, based on facts that are in the process and that the judge says are in the process. Essentially, as is said, they are in the process. Therefore, saying that they were not accused… The process was – when I left there was already a movement to have the case archived. From the moment that they are made arguidos, everything moves to shelve the case. Interest was lost; the interest was to archive the case. And they succeeded in shelving the case. It was in the couple’s interest to have the case archived, and two things happen: The couple does nothing, and they could have done something when there was a shelving, to continue into the instruction [phase] to keep the process going, for the truth to be found. You see, the conclusions that we reached were the conclusions of an investigation. And an investigation, like someone said, is always a zigzagging of the moment. And we might even have reached the end of the investigation –
Anchor – In this case, this investigation was very traumatising, very disorganised…
Gonçalo Amaral – Disorganised, in what way?
Anchor - Because nothing was concluded, so many years later the child’s whereabouts haven’t been found.
Gonçalo Amaral – Because of interferences that took place, without interferences we would have gone further. Have no doubts about that. That is why the process was archived. When the shelving took place, the couple and another person were arguidos. Any one of them could have requested the opening of the instruction and continued the process. None of them did it, the couple because they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to do it, and the other person because he received compensation from the British courts, so he didn’t do it, he was very satisfied, and now it seems that he is an arguido again. This is what happens –
Anchor - We have to ask one last question. The truth is that the McCann couple – and this is a question and not a statement – demanded compensation worth 1.2 million euro from you because of the publication of the book “A Verdade da Mentira”. This book was very controversial because it was also a success. Many people read it –
Anchor – Many copies were sold.
Anchor – Exactly. Many people read it and created their own opinion. Do you think that in some way that opinion drew people away from the possibility of believing in that child’s parents?
Gonçalo Amaral – No, it didn’t, quite the opposite. The book, which was successful in a way that nobody expected – the contract with the editor was even made based on sales targets, 10 thousand books sold would mean a certain percentage and so on – therefore a very normal contract, nobody was thinking about bestsellers or anything like that. What the book brought was more publicity for the case. And people were not drawn away. There are many people who still defend the couple’s thesis. There are other people – those diverging opinions already existed before the book. They already existed practically before the book. What motivates the couple to file the lawsuit of 1.2 million euro may be the money. They have a firm, a firm where they are members of the board, called Madeleine Fund, which is to look for their daughter, but they are members of the board, it’s a firm, it’s not a social association, or social solidarity, it’s a firm, it’s registered in England as a firm. And what they always wanted was to destabilise me. When they went to Oprah’s programme in the United States, they said it, they wrote on their website that they hope that now nobody believes in that person anymore, for this and that –
Anchor – But Gonçalo, they had to defend themselves with the weapons at hand, if they think they are innocent…
Gonçalo Amaral – Indeed they do. I will give you one example. We speak about the book and we speak about the documentary. We forget another detail. In 2009, in January of 2009, I lived in the Algarve and was indicated to run for mayor of Olhão on behalf of the Social Democratic Party [PSD]. And that alerted that family, that situation of destabilising me, and Mr Gerald McCann came to Lisbon, there’s news from that time, he met with a top political official from PSD who has a French surname, with Dr Rogério Alves and with Dr Isabel Duarte – this is what is said, it’s what was published – and what happened then was that PSD gave me up as a candidate. This puts rights at stake, the rights of a citizen, the rights of a Portuguese citizen, and someone comes from the outside to do it. It’s the right to be elected. And this is when they start thinking about the lawsuit. It’s not about what is in the book, what is in the documentary, because what the book and the documentary contain is what is in the process. They contain technical opinions. And it’s the fear of that issue – when they come over here and put the right to be elected at stake, with the acquiescence of people inside PSD, that this happened.
Anchor – Thank you very much, Gonçalo. Our time is short but this is a subject that we would like to discuss in more depth. We will continue to follow this because the process is still in its early stages.
Gonçalo Amaral – There is no motive to get too excited, but it’s a good indication of what may be the decision.
Anchor – Thank you for joining us today.
video: http://www.rtp.pt/play/p1629/e180119/agora-nos/405316 - interview starts at 22:43
So GA believes..there may be....there may be...a favourable verdict...
Doesn't sound too sure...does he mean he'll just have to pay half a million and not the whole lot.. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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So GA believes..there may be....there may be...a favourable verdict...
Doesn't sound too sure...does he mean he'll just have to pay half a million and not the whole lot.. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Made a very quick recovery hasn't he. Too ill to go to court on Wednesday.
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So GA believes..there may be....there may be...a favourable verdict...
Doesn't sound too sure...does he mean he'll just have to pay half a million and not the whole lot.. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
You do have vivid dreams don't you about getting money from Amaral and let's not forget the other defendants.
I wonder if the mccanns have the same dreams ? 8)--))
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How you so conveniently leave out the rest of the quote, as it doesn't serve your purposes.
Now Montclair, when the judge says something is proven and then adds a couple of qualifying statements does that means that something is not proven after all? Either the book is proven to have done damage or it hasn't, there can really be no grey area in between, so which is it according to the judge?
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try reading the post again
I was bored the first time.
I come on here for fun.
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I was bored the first time.
I come on here for fun.
how sad...poor you... I must remember not to be too harsh
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28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
The judge does note that some of the facts in the book are not complete, and some facts that are in the book are not in the case files, including Jane Tanner's "informal" recognition of Robert Murat.
I hope the judge isn't trying to find that informal recognition, or we will be here another 10 years.
Erm, indeed.
I can understand that the facts that accurately reflect the files are off limits, but there is a lot that is hearsay. There is also the issue of his cherry-picking and presenting his interpretation as an expert when he was clearly out of his depth. I doubt, however, that the judge will delve into his garbled understanding of the forensics, for example.
He could have written a book defending his honour in a completely different way, explaining the difficulties, but without making allegations of criminal acts and insisting that the child is dead without the slightest proof and it would still have been a lucrative best-seller.
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Interesting read for a Sunday morning from the Sunday Express:
EXCLUSIVE: ‘McCanns will lose £1m libel trial’ Judge’s initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
Published: 00:01, Sun, January 25, 2015By JAMES MURRAY
578
goncalo amarai, madeleine mccann, gerry and kate mccann, abduction, truth of the lie, maddie maddy, libel trialGETTY
Kate and Gerry McCann claim policeman left them ‘destroyed’
Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve’s Praia da Luz in 2007.
The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a “slander”.
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been “completely destroyed” from a “moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them”. And she said it was not proven that they would suffer “permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear”.
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have “felt badly” over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter’s body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral’s theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral’s book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
goncalo amarai, madeleine mccann, gerry and kate mccann, abduction, truth of the lie, maddie maddy, libel trialEPA
Madeleine has been missing since 2007
[My son] Sean asked me in October last year, ‘Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn’t he?’ I just said, ‘He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'
At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.
Kate said: “Sean asked me in October last year, ‘Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn’t he?’ I just said, ‘He did, and he has said a lot of silly things’.
“I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated.”
Closing her evidence, Kate said: “I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don’t believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander.”
Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: “The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.
“The documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our daughter’s body rather than try to help her should something have happened.
goncalo amarai, madeleine mccann, gerry and kate mccann, abduction, truth of the lie, maddie maddy, libel trialGETTY
Amaral says Madeleine died in family’s holiday flat
“When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body.”
The McCanns’ lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge’s findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: “The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it’s me who defends those initial months of the investigation.”
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be “favourable” to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine’s disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough.
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I wouldn't say it was all that interesting.
Seems to be a summary of what Amaral thinks will happen ...
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I think the interest lies in the fact that the Express printed it at all
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I wouldn't say it was all that interesting.
Seems to be a summary of what Amaral thinks will happen ...
It also has a summary of what the judge decided.
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According to montclairs post these are amarals words...
. And the indications that are given lead me, and my lawyer, and people who have already read the document, to believe that there may be – there may be – a favourable verdict
Does that sound confident?
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According to montclairs post these are amarals words...
. And the indications that are given lead me, and my lawyer, and people who have already read the document, to believe that there may be – there may be – a favourable verdict
Does that sound confident?
You really are deluded if you still b elieve the mccanns have won.
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I'm bound to concede, it is a tad irresponsible of a national newspaper, particularly that has already been sued by the McCanns, to listen to and publish the opinions of a disgraced ex-cop with a criminal conviction (now expired, I understand) for lying.
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I'm bound to concede, it is a tad irresponsible of a national newspaper, particularly that has already been sued by the McCanns, to listen to and publish the opinions of a disgraced ex-cop with a criminal conviction (now expired, I understand) for lying.
No doubt their lawyers will have carefully vetted the article before publication.
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No doubt their lawyers will have carefully vetted the article before publication.
I would say there's considerable doubt about that ...
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No doubt their lawyers will have carefully vetted the article before publication.
if you critique the article you will see it is saying very little apart that amaral believes the verdict may be favourable...but of course many posters on here can't see beyond the sensationalist headline
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I would say there's considerable doubt about that ...
Well, that's the law all over - nothing but different opinions.
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No doubt their lawyers will have carefully vetted the article before publication.
of course if you remember exactly the same was said about the ST article...even though I immediately pointed out it was libellous and the McCanns would sue...I was proved right and the doubters wrong..fact
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He seems to be of the opinion that Kate and Gerry's lawyer has some sway with Lusa News agency and got them to plant false stories about him. I have to say he comes across as somewhat paranoid in that interview. He also twice claims to have met with Kate and Gerry - when was this exactly? Was a two-way mirror involved in the meeting?
GA still trying to keep the truth from the public I see. It was noticeable that he studiously ignored the question the first time round and then when it was repeated he still didn't tell the truth. Very telling IMO.
From Kate's book
And so it was that on 11 December 2009 I first laid eyes on Sr. Goncalo Amaral. It was also the first time he had laid eyes on me. It is extraordinary that he could have said and written so many awful things about a person he had never met.
unquote.
There is no way that Kate would have made that clear statement if it was untrue - because if Amaral had ever met her he would have been shouting from the rooftops that she had lied in her book and he could prove it. But not a peep.
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What gives me confidence that the McCanns will get compensation is the fact that there are two Portuguese posters who post online and are amaral supporters...both have been silent........
[ moderated ]
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Amaral says the result may be favourable...would any doubters like to say what they think it may mean...
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Posted by portugalpress on January 25, 2015
http://portugalresident.com/as-dust-set ... ctly-shaky
As dust settles on judge’s findings, McCann €1.2 million “libel win” looks distinctly shaky
It took some hours for the much-awaited “reading of the proven facts” to come through last week - and even then newspapers here and abroad got it wrong.
In Britain, the Daily Express ran with the headline: “Kate and Gerry McCann win court ruling in £1 million libel battle against ex-police chief”.
Here, Lusa news agency proclaimed “Court rules damages caused by Gonçalo Amaral to Kate and Gerry McCann proved”.
But they both jumped the gun.
Within hours Público realised the mistake and pulled the Lusa story from its website, running instead with the much-fairer “Court proves Kate and Gerry McCann were “not destroyed” by book by Gonçalo Amaral”.
Lusa regained its equilibrium, posting a revised story the next day carrying much the same headline.
And then this morning (Sunday), four days after judge Emília Mello e Castro handed the lawyers her “reading of the proven facts” - the cornerstones on which she will base her judgement on the long-running case - the Express has done a complete U-turn, running with a new headline proclaiming: “Exclusive: McCann’s will lose £1 million libel trial”
In fact, the exclusive belongs to the Algarve’s Len Port - the only journalist who got the story right first time.
Writing on his Portugal Newswatch blogsite, reproduced regularly by this Portugal Resident news portal, Port’s Wednesday post: “Amaral supporters optimistic about judge’s rulings in McCann libel case” was, in the end, a far more succinct version of what unfolded in Lisbon four days ago.
The reason for the confusion was perhaps two-fold. First, it took reporters time to get their hands on Emília Mello e Castro’s complete list of “proven facts” in the case that centres on Amaral’s book, A Verdade da Mentira (The Truth of the Lie); and second, there appears to have been a degree of press manipulation.
But now that the facts are in the public domain, we can summarise key findings.
Certainly, the likelihood of a resounding McCann win looks distinctly shaky.
Port’s report of “cautious optimism” among Amaral supporters was in itself characteristically cautious.
Supporters of the beleaguered former police inspector targeted by the McCann’s are positively crowing from the rooftops.
“As of Wednesday, the McCann ship is beyond repair”, jubilant Textusa blog reported.
The UK’s Miscarriage of Justice forum took to Twitter to confirm: “Court holds as not proven that book hampered search for Madeleine”, while myriad followers of the case were enthusiastic about what they called the “wonderful news coming from Portugal”.
It was a window in on the welter of support for Amaral’s right to have written his hypothesis for the disappearance of the world’s most famous missing person seven years ago.
As he has frequently told interviewers since the McCann’s lodged their civil action for a reported €1.2 million in damages against him, his life has been made a misery by their action and his “civil position” a target for what he terms “assassination”.
Talking to RTP as the dust began to settle last week, Amaral elaborated on the hiccups caused by what he termed “complete manipulation of the media”.
“Lusa agency, since all of this began, has been taking sides”, he said. “I wouldn’t say as much as they have taken the side of the couple, but they have taken the side of the couple’s lawyer. So there has been completely false news about me”.
Amaral also elaborated on the “assassination of his civil position”.
“In 2009, in January of 2009, I lived in the Algarve and was indicated to run for mayor of Olhão on behalf of the Social Democratic Party [PSD]. That alerted the family and Mr Gerald McCann came to Lisbon… he met with a top political official from PSD who has a French surname, with Dr Rogério Alves and with Dr Isabel Duarte… what happened then was that PSD gave me up as a candidate. This puts the rights of a citizen, the rights of a Portuguese citizen, at stake”.
It was at this point, Amaral told his interviewer, that the McCanns started “thinking about the lawsuit” that is now in its final stages.
Key facts proven and unproven:
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book (Truth of the Lie), in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? Not proved
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them? Not proved
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear? Proved, but the judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
Because of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s statements in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, author Kate McCann is immersed in a deep and serious depression, which has already made her state publicly “I wish I was in a coma, to relieve the pain”? Not proved
The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published? Not proved
For a full list of the proven facts, see the maddiecasefiles.com.
As Len Port explained in his initial report on the judge’s findings: “The McCanns now have time to seek and present authorisation from the British High Court to formally represent their daughter in this case. Madeleine was made a ward of court at the instigation of her parents in April 2008. This could have a bearing on the amount of any compensation eventually awarded”.
“No date has been set for a verdict but it is thought to be more than two months away. Even when it comes, the verdict will probably not be the end of the matter. An appeal is likely.”
The veteran journalist concluded: “Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him”.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic24321.html
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Posted by portugalpress on January 25, 2015
http://portugalresident.com/as-dust-set ... ctly-shaky
As dust settles on judge’s findings, McCann €1.2 million “libel win” looks distinctly shaky
It took some hours for the much-awaited “reading of the proven facts” to come through last week - and even then newspapers here and abroad got it wrong.
In Britain, the Daily Express ran with the headline: “Kate and Gerry McCann win court ruling in £1 million libel battle against ex-police chief”.
Here, Lusa news agency proclaimed “Court rules damages caused by Gonçalo Amaral to Kate and Gerry McCann proved”.
But they both jumped the gun.
Within hours Público realised the mistake and pulled the Lusa story from its website, running instead with the much-fairer “Court proves Kate and Gerry McCann were “not destroyed” by book by Gonçalo Amaral”.
Lusa regained its equilibrium, posting a revised story the next day carrying much the same headline.
And then this morning (Sunday), four days after judge Emília Mello e Castro handed the lawyers her “reading of the proven facts” - the cornerstones on which she will base her judgement on the long-running case - the Express has done a complete U-turn, running with a new headline proclaiming: “Exclusive: McCann’s will lose £1 million libel trial”
In fact, the exclusive belongs to the Algarve’s Len Port - the only journalist who got the story right first time.
Writing on his Portugal Newswatch blogsite, reproduced regularly by this Portugal Resident news portal, Port’s Wednesday post: “Amaral supporters optimistic about judge’s rulings in McCann libel case” was, in the end, a far more succinct version of what unfolded in Lisbon four days ago.
The reason for the confusion was perhaps two-fold. First, it took reporters time to get their hands on Emília Mello e Castro’s complete list of “proven facts” in the case that centres on Amaral’s book, A Verdade da Mentira (The Truth of the Lie); and second, there appears to have been a degree of press manipulation.
But now that the facts are in the public domain, we can summarise key findings.
Certainly, the likelihood of a resounding McCann win looks distinctly shaky.
Port’s report of “cautious optimism” among Amaral supporters was in itself characteristically cautious.
Supporters of the beleaguered former police inspector targeted by the McCann’s are positively crowing from the rooftops.
“As of Wednesday, the McCann ship is beyond repair”, jubilant Textusa blog reported.
The UK’s Miscarriage of Justice forum took to Twitter to confirm: “Court holds as not proven that book hampered search for Madeleine”, while myriad followers of the case were enthusiastic about what they called the “wonderful news coming from Portugal”.
It was a window in on the welter of support for Amaral’s right to have written his hypothesis for the disappearance of the world’s most famous missing person seven years ago.
As he has frequently told interviewers since the McCann’s lodged their civil action for a reported €1.2 million in damages against him, his life has been made a misery by their action and his “civil position” a target for what he terms “assassination”.
Talking to RTP as the dust began to settle last week, Amaral elaborated on the hiccups caused by what he termed “complete manipulation of the media”.
“Lusa agency, since all of this began, has been taking sides”, he said. “I wouldn’t say as much as they have taken the side of the couple, but they have taken the side of the couple’s lawyer. So there has been completely false news about me”.
Amaral also elaborated on the “assassination of his civil position”.
“In 2009, in January of 2009, I lived in the Algarve and was indicated to run for mayor of Olhão on behalf of the Social Democratic Party [PSD]. That alerted the family and Mr Gerald McCann came to Lisbon… he met with a top political official from PSD who has a French surname, with Dr Rogério Alves and with Dr Isabel Duarte… what happened then was that PSD gave me up as a candidate. This puts the rights of a citizen, the rights of a Portuguese citizen, at stake”.
It was at this point, Amaral told his interviewer, that the McCanns started “thinking about the lawsuit” that is now in its final stages.
Key facts proven and unproven:
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book (Truth of the Lie), in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? Not proved
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them? Not proved
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear? Proved, but the judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
Because of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s statements in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, author Kate McCann is immersed in a deep and serious depression, which has already made her state publicly “I wish I was in a coma, to relieve the pain”? Not proved
The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published? Not proved
For a full list of the proven facts, see the maddiecasefiles.com.
As Len Port explained in his initial report on the judge’s findings: “The McCanns now have time to seek and present authorisation from the British High Court to formally represent their daughter in this case. Madeleine was made a ward of court at the instigation of her parents in April 2008. This could have a bearing on the amount of any compensation eventually awarded”.
“No date has been set for a verdict but it is thought to be more than two months away. Even when it comes, the verdict will probably not be the end of the matter. An appeal is likely.”
The veteran journalist concluded: “Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him”.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic24321.html
Piece authored by Natasha Don ....
Bit like Len Port, only female ...
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Piece authored by Natasha Don ....
Bit like Len Port, only female ...
I believe, Len Port wrote the same piece.
It is only fair to show all versions in the press.
There are so many contradictions in the news.
Nobody is going to know for sure, what the outcome is until the Judge gives her verdict. So its wait and see really.
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The Daily Mail now reports on the trial:
Kate and Gerry McCann suffered 'anguish, rage and desperation' from
ex-police chief's book about missing Madeleine, judge finds
But Emilio Melo e Castro says pain they felt existed before publication
Goncalo Amaral claims they faked disappearance to cover up death
Finding emerges ahead of final judgement in long-running libel trial
McCanns accuse former detective of hampering the search for girl
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/25/02101C8200000578-0-image-a-39_1422185177230.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html
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The Daily Mail now reports on the trial:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html
the mail states...
The rulings left Mr Amaral confident of court victory next month
This isn't what amaral said...so I don't give too much credence to the article. Just a rehash...and an inaccurate one...of amaral's statement
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The Daily Mail now reports on the trial:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html
Tabloids today, broadsheets tomorrow.
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Is it my imagination or is the prospective member for Brighton Pavilion remarkably quiet?
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Is it my imagination or is the prospective member for Brighton Pavilion remarkably quiet?
He may be closer than you think. 8)--))
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After starting off a little on the back foot it didn't take the troops too long to rally and get the message out there ... for the rest of us, we will just have to wait a little longer for the truth to emerge in the Judge's final ruling when there will be no ambiguity.
However I find the statement from Dr Amaral that Robert Murat is an arguido again intriguing ... I think it was Misty who wondered if this was the reason he was accompanied to his interview with the PJ and SY by a lawyer.
If Dr Amaral has stated it as fact on National TV, we have no reason to believe that is not the case, so are we secure in saying " it seems Robert Murat is an arguido"?
**snip
None of them did it, the couple because they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to do it, and the other person because he received compensation from the British courts, so he didn’t do it, he was very satisfied, and now it seems that he is an arguido again. This is what happens –
video: http://www.rtp.pt/play/p1629/e180119/agora-nos/405316 - interview starts at 22:43
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After starting off a little on the back foot it didn't take the troops too long to rally and get the message out there ... for the rest of us, we will just have to wait a little longer for the truth to emerge in the Judge's final ruling when there will be no ambiguity.
However I find the statement from Dr Amaral that Robert Murat is an arguido again intriguing ... I think it was Misty who wondered if this was the reason he was accompanied to his interview with the PJ and SY by a lawyer.
If Dr Amaral has stated it as fact on National TV, we have no reason to believe that is not the case, so are we secure in saying " it seems Robert Murat is an arguido"?
**snip
None of them did it, the couple because they didn’t want to, they didn’t want to do it, and the other person because he received compensation from the British courts, so he didn’t do it, he was very satisfied, and now it seems that he is an arguido again. This is what happens –
video: http://www.rtp.pt/play/p1629/e180119/agora-nos/405316 - interview starts at 22:43
It was me who wondered that, and Carana replied.
It seems there has been a change in the law that allows informal witnesses to be accompanied by their lawyers for police interviews.
I've no doubt Carana's facts are right.
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A poll has been added at the start of this thread.
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A poll has been added at the start of this thread.
Punitive damages aren't allowed in PT, AFAIK, unless there's been a recent change in that respect (which I doubt).
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So did the mccanns put out through their 'source close to the mccanns' that they had won the trial, and then the Express in embarrassment, have to tell the truth ?
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So did the mccanns put out through their 'source close to the mccanns' that they had won the trial, and then the Express in embarrassment, have to tell the truth ?
Funnily enough I haven't seen anything of that nature. Surely he's not lost for words.
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interesting point....I'm sure the judge will be most impressed with amaral pre empting her decision...whilst the McCanns maintain a dignified silence
Yes, and that reports were plastered all over the net. Obtained illegally???
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Why should it be illegal - did the lawyers take a vow of silence?
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Why should it be illegal - did the lawyers take a vow of silence?
Where did I say lawyers?. Anne Guedes should not have had those reports, she's not a lawyer. She tried to get them from a court clerk and was refused.
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Why should it be illegal - did the lawyers take a vow of silence?
none of the lawyers have spoken so probably yes
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Where did I say lawyers?. Anne Guedes should not have had those reports, she's not a lawyer. She tried to get them from a court clerk and was refused.
My mistake. However the findings were read out in an open court so they obviously weren't considered secret.
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interesting point....I'm sure the judge will be most impressed with amaral pre empting her decision...whilst the McCanns maintain a dignified silence
Dignified silence or mere cowardice.
They speak through their 'sources'.
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I believe that all the lawyers were given the written copies of the judge's decisions regarding the proven facts and each lawyer is free to contest any point of law arising from the same.
Presumably, anyone attending in court was free to report what the judge said, just not verbatim.
I also presume that it would not be in the interest of any of the lawyers to leak the exact wording on the documents pending any legal challenges from one or more of the parties prior to the final ruling.
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I believe that all the lawyers were given the written copies of the judge's decisions regarding the proven facts and each lawyer is free to contest any point of law arising from the same.
Presumably, anyone attending in court was free to report what the judge said, just not verbatim.
I also presume that it would not be in the interest of any of the lawyers to leak the exact wording on the documents pending any legal challenges from one or more of the parties prior to the final ruling.
Somebody leaked them Misty, Anne Guedes asked for them and was refused. Seems hardly any discussion actually held.
In a civil court, the facts that were gathered and considered as evidence by the judge, within the limits fixed for a trial, are normally not publicised, whereas in a penal court they have to be stated publicly.
This morning's session, which was no hearing, happened to be open to the public (reduced to 3 persons, me included, no journalist) just because, due the restructure of the juridical system that occurred end of August, the judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro has been nominated to another section and doesn't belong to this civil court anymore, having therefore no office in the Tribunal Civil de Lisboa. So she needed a court room to release to the lawyers the document she elaborated.
Only four lawyers were present :
For the claimants, Dr Ricardo Afonso (representing Dra Isabel Duarte)
For the defence, Dr Miguel Cruz Rodrigues, Dra Fatima de Oliveira Esteves, Dr Henrique Costa Pinto. Dr Miguel Coroadinha (TVI) was absent.
The Judge asked the lawyers to read the document in case they needed clarification on some points or had any objection, suggesting it wasn't definitive. In fact it is on this document that the lawyers who solicited it at the last hearing (all of them) will build their "allegations of law", i.e indicate how they would interpret the law on these topics. The judge left the court room, leaving the lawyers at their reading.
And so it happened.
A quarter of an hour later, the judge entered the room (through the witnesses', clerk's and lawyers' entrance and not through the judge's special entrance) and asked for observations.
The only lawyer who intervened was Dr Henrique Costa Pinto (Valentim de Carvalho Multimedia).
He found some contradiction concerning the green light given for the DVD’s production. He underlined that he was mentioning this issue informally. The judge explained that she took various sources into account and that commercializing is one thing and selling another. Therefore she thought it wasn't contradictory, but admitted that without the context it might let one think it was.
The other issue was related to the WOC issue. From this day on, the claimants have 30 days to hand over the London Court's authorization to have Madeleine McCann represented by her parents in this trial. Meanwhile the trial is suspended. After the 30 days delay, which of course can happen to be shorter, the lawyers will have ten days to hand in their "allegations of law".
When the judge left the room after distributing the document to the lawyers, as if the benches for the public were empty, looking literally through the three members of the public, I entered the “sacred” area and asked the clerk if I could read the document. The clerk looked embarrassed, hesitated but then said “no”, adding, as a justification, that it was “informal”.
As there was no journalist neither in the court room nor outside (only photographers expecting the McCanns like Vladimir and Estragon wait for Godot), as none of the defense lawyers would have misled the Press Agency Lusa to their disadvantage, the reader will need no hypothetico-deductive method to find out who grossly disinformed an institution that still plays a decisive part in the international circulation of the news.
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So what is the problem? Would you prefer the information not to be available at all?
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Dignified silence or mere cowardice.
They speak through their 'sources'.
amarals lawyers haven't spoken either
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My mistake. However the findings were read out in an open court so they obviously weren't considered secret.
were the findings read out in open court...it looks as they were not
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I assumed so, otherwise how would Anne have got hold of the information?
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I assumed so, otherwise how would Anne have got hold of the information?
Anne does not appear to have got hold of any information
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OK, whoever posted up online then
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amarals lawyers haven't spoken either
Amaral's lawyer did speak.
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OK, whoever posted up online then
oh dear ..you've got your facts wrong
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Amaral's lawyer did speak.
then you will have the quote
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oh dear ..you've got your facts wrong
So? merely a name. I don't see what the big deal is anyway.
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So? merely a name.
no...you stated that the judgement was read out in court...they were not
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oh dear ..you've got your facts wrong
My mistake, was referring to his remarks last year.
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were the findings read out in open court...it looks as they were not
NO!
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no...you stated that the judgement was read out in court...they were not
Ok, so I got it wrong. What does it matter? The information is out there for all to see which is a good thing.
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My mistake, was referring to his remarks last year.
looks like it's me who's right again. So it is only amaral who has discussed the judgement. A judgement that the judge seemed to want to keep confidential. Not only that he has pre empted the judge's decision...
That doesn't seem very bright to me.
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To clarify, last Wednesdays sitting was an informal gathering arranged by the judge so that she could hand out her statement of proof to the lawyers and offer them an opportunity to ask questions about it. It was not a formal hearing and could very well have been carried out in an office had one been available. Members must realise that proceedings in Spain and Portugal are often carried out in offices rather than in a courtroom.
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Amaral's lawyer did speak.
As you seem to have contact with the three members of the public who were there, perhaps you could clarify if anyone obtained a written copy of the original document, or were they making notes of what was said in court?
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As you seem to have contact with the three members of the public who were there, perhaps you could clarify if anyone obtained a written copy of the original document, or were they making notes of what was said in court?
it seems nothing was said in court and the lawyers were given judgements to read...so does anyone know where published judgement has come from?
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As you seem to have contact with the three members of the public who were there, perhaps you could clarify if anyone obtained a written copy of the original document, or were they making notes of what was said in court?
I suggest that if you don't trust these reports you send someone yourself to attend the hearings. The people who bothered to go there don't have to satisfy you.
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I suggest that if you don't trust these reports you send someone yourself to attend the hearings. The people who bothered to go there don't have to account to you.
and we don't have to believe them...the official judgement will be released soon...that's what matters
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and we don't have to believe them...the official judgement will be released soon...that's what matters
That's your problem then.
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From Anne Guedes' original report of Wednesdays proceedings...
When the judge left the room after distributing the document to the lawyers, as if the benches for the public were empty, looking literally through the three members of the public, I entered the “sacred” area and asked the clerk if I could read the document. The clerk looked embarrassed, hesitated but then said “no”, adding, as a justification, that it was “informal”.
As there was no journalist neither in the court room nor outside (only photographers expecting the McCanns like Vladimir and Estragon wait for Godot), as none of the defense lawyers would have misled the Press Agency Lusa to their disadvantage, the reader will need no hypothetico-deductive method to find out who grossly disinformed an institution that still plays a decisive part in the international circulation of the news.
Was Press Agency Lusa misled or did they put their own slant on it?
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it seems nothing was said in court and the lawyers were given judgements to read...so does anyone know where published judgement has come from?
2 guesses lol. First news report was before 12pm by DN, I believe.
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That's your problem then.
I don't have a problem....you still haven't explained your bizarre post that I am worried....I'm not in the slightest worried ...why should I be
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it seems nothing was said in court and the lawyers were given judgements to read...so does anyone know where published judgement has come from?
Davel. Please resist the urge to post disinformation. There was a discussion in Court when one of the defence lawyers responded to the judges offer to clarify any aspects of her proof which was unclear to them.
I must add this propensity you have for pedantic fault finding is not constructive. You were not present on Wednesday so please leave the reporting to those who were.
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Davel. Please resist the urge to post disinformation. There was a discussion in Court when one of the defence lawyers responded to the judges offer to clarify any aspects of her proof which was unclear to them.
I must add this propensity you have for pedantic fault fnding is not constructive. You were not present on Wednesday so please leave the reporting to those who were.
I have a propensity for accuracy...it appears the judgement was not read out in court......that's why those who were there do not know what was in the judgement..
My question is ...where has this version of the judgement come..it certainly was not read out in court
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I suggest that if you don't trust these reports you send someone yourself to attend the hearings. The people who bothered to go there don't have to satisfy you.
No need to be aggressive. It was a genuine question to which I thought there may have been a simple answer.
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I have a propensity for accuracy...it appears the judgement was not read out in court......that's why those who were there do not know what was in the judgement..
My question is ...where has this version of the judgement come..it certainly was not read out in court
The proof was copied to interested parties by those who received it including representatives of the Portuguese daily, Correio da Manha. The judge agreed at the outset that the public would not be barred from sittings thus secrecy is not a feature of these proceedings.
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I have a propensity for accuracy...it appears the judgement was not read out in court......that's why those who were there do not know what was in the judgement..
My question is ...where has this version of the judgement come..it certainly was not read out in court
That is matter of opinion.
Your judgement of victory for the McCann's clearly incorrect. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
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It wasn't a private hearing, therefore I would presume that the media could request a copy from the lawyers couldn't they?
If they have done, then various media outlets may place a different emphasis on certain parts. This has been the case since day one, with headlines of "Madeleine is dead" and "Madeleine is alive" appearing in headlines on the same day.
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That is matter of opinion.
Your judgement of victory for the McCann's clearly incorrect. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
no its fact...the judgement was not read out in court
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It wasn't a private hearing, therefore I would presume that the media could request a copy from the lawyers couldn't they?
If they have done, then various media outlets may place a different emphasis on certain parts. This has been the case since day one, with headlines of "Madeleine is dead" and "Madeleine is alive" appearing in headlines on the same day.
you presume?
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do you know how accurate it is
Talk about clutching at straws.
You know it really helps if you don't go on here all the time, then when you start catching up the desperation becomes apparent.
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you presume?
What's your problem tonight Dave? Is it because you were WRONG about the book damaging the search? %£&)**# @)(++(*
I'm not one to gloat mate but....spectacular FAIL !! *&*%£
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try reading the post
Is it that your just incapable of seeing the obvious ?
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What's your problem tonight Dave? Is it because you were WRONG about the book damaging the search? %£&)**# @)(++(*
I'm not one to gloat mate but....spectacular FAIL !! *&*%£
try and address any post I have made...
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try and address any post I have made...
There's so many, where do I begin? 8)><(
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There's so many, where do I begin? 8)><(
try this one...why has morais closed her site if the news is so good
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try this one...why has morais closed her site if the news is so good
It's not closed.
Invitation only.
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It's not closed.
Invitation only.
why suddenly so coy
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try this one...why has morais closed her site if the news is so good
Her Twitter has gone too. Page doesn't exist.
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Her Twitter has gone too. Page doesn't exist.
silence speaks a thousand words
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Her Twitter has gone too. Page doesn't exist.
along with other pointers...this leads me to believe the news is bad for amaral
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why suddenly so coy
I have no idea.
However, it doesn't mean the mccanns won the case dave .
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along with other pointers...this leads me to believe the news is bad for amaral
Twitter politics davel 8(0(*
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along with other pointers...this leads me to believe the news is bad for amaral
The pointers are Dave, the McCann's are up the creek without a paddle.
As you are with your claims of victory.
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Perhaps someone has been arrested for breaking judicial secrecy laws.
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The pointers are Dave, the McCann's are up thge creek without a paddle.
As you are with your claims of victory.
either way the verdict will have little impact on the mccanns.....but could have a massive impact on amaral
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either way the verdict will have little impact on the mccanns.....but could have a massive impact on amaral
Getting your excuses in early?
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either way the verdict will have little impact on the mccanns.....but could have a massive impact on amaral
Wrong way round.
The McCann's face huge legal bills.
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Wrong way round.
The McCann's face huge legal bills.
tell me Stephen...just an academic point...is a civil judgement in Portugal enforceable in the UK...don't expect you will know the answer to this highly relevant question
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tell me Stephen...just an academic point...is a civil judgement in Portugal enforceable in the UK...don't expect you will know the answer to this highly relevant question
So you are suggesting the McCs are going to do a runner?
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That'll enhance their reputation.
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tell me Stephen...just an academic point...is a civil judgement in Portugal enforceable in the UK...don't expect you will know the answer to this highly relevant question
Why would you know, one way or the other, unless of course, you are tied to the McCann's directly ?
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So you are suggesting the McCs are going to do a runner?
I am suggesting nothing..
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I am suggesting nothing..
Yes you are...
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What I do know is that the court is holding amaral's money...not the mccanns
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Yes you are...
how can they do a runner when they live in the UK...can you answer the question...I can
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how can they do a runner when they live in the UK...can you answer the question...I can
Running away from obligations...doh.
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Running away from obligations...doh.
We are talking about the law...not obligations..an application for costs would...imo...not be enforcable
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We are talking about the law...not obligations
So you are suggesting they ignore their legal duties?
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So you are suggesting they ignore their legal duties?
not at all...let the legal process take its course...any assets owned in Portugal would be at the courts mercy...but the law would protect any assets in the uk
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Wrong way round.
The McCann's face huge legal bills.
so the answer is no...the mccanns will not be facing any huge legal bills
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not at all...let the legal process take its course...any assets owned in Portugal would be at the courts mercy...but the law would protect any assets in the uk
This thread has been red hot recently so I am still catching up so apologies if I have missed something.
Out of interest, tell me Davel, what do you mean by the law would protect any assets in the UK? Portuguese civil law has no jurisdiction outside of Portugal.
As an aside, Portuguese criminal law can reach far beyond the shores of Portugal.
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This thread has been red hot recently so I am still catching up so apologies if I have missed something.
Out of interest, tell me Davel, what do you mean by the law would protect any assets in the UK? Portuguese civil law has no jurisdiction outside of Portugal.
what I am saying is that an award of costs against the mccanns would not be enforceable in the uk
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so the answer is no...the mccanns will not be facing any huge legal bills
Could they not be pursued by Amaral/the Portuguese lawyers under a European Payment Order, in the unlikely event of them losing the case?
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what I am saying is that an award of costs against the mccanns would not be enforceable in the uk
Findlaw.com
Under the Brussels Regulation and Lugano Convention, a creditor can enforce a debt in another country if that country uses the regulation or convention. The Brussels Regulation includes all EU countries, except Denmark; and the Lugano Convention covers members of the European Free Trade Association.
Countries covered by the regulation and convention will enforce judgments made in other countries.
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Findlaw.com
this is for uncontested claims and is a complex area ...the mcccanns merely have to contest the claim
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this is for uncontested claims and is a complex area ...the mcccanns merely have to contest the claim
Which would be in PT.
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Could they not be pursued by Amaral/the Portuguese lawyers under a European Payment Order, in the unlikely event of them losing the case?
Only for claims up to €2000 otherwise it is merely a case of raising an action in a local English Court.
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Which would be in PT.
the mccanns could raise a claim inn the uk for damages against amaral...in the unlikely event that a portuguese court awarded costs against them...this cross country law is extremely complex
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the mccanns could raise a claim inn the uk for damages against amaral...in the unlikely event that a portuguese court awarded costs against them...this cross country law is extremely complex
Wishful thinking, try again.
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the mccanns could raise a claim inn the uk for damages against amaral...in the unlikely event that a portuguese court awarded costs against them...this cross country law is extremely complex
They could indeed but an English Court might not entertain it since it has already been adjudicated on in another Court. In any event, this is all wildly speculative since I see no reason why the Madeleine Fund wouldn't pay any indebtedness incurred in Portugal.
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They could indeed but an English Court might not entertain it since it has already been adjudicated on in another Court.
the case has not been judged in the uk...by uk standards amaral is guilty of libel...so the interesting question is...could the mccanns sue for libel in the uk...there are at present more questions than answers
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the case has not been judged in the uk...by uk standards amaral is guilty of libel...so the interesting question is...could the mccanns sue for libel in the uk...there are at present more questions than answers
If they could have sued him in London they would have.
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the case has not been judged in the uk...by uk standards amaral is guilty of libel...so the interesting question is...could the mccanns sue for libel in the uk...there are at present more questions than answers
I doubt it, but then if Gonc wants to counter-sue he would have to do so in the UK presumably - I wonder if he's got the stamina (and the funds) for another court case in a foreign country, as well as fighting any appeal that might take place in his own with regard the current trial....
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AFAIK, punitive damages don't exist in PT, unless anyone has information to the contrary.
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AFAIK, punitive damages don't exist in PT, unless anyone has information to the contrary.
Then why have the McCanns been seeking £1m from Amaral in a PT court? Have they been wrongly advised?
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Then why have the McCanns been seeking £1m from Amaral in a PT court? Have they been wrongly advised?
Compensatory damages?
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Then why have the McCanns been seeking £1m from Amaral in a PT court? Have they been wrongly advised?
No idea.
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Two recent articles by Correio da Manhã on last Wednesdays proceedings in Lisbon.
(http://i.imgur.com/zjaxBkw.jpg?1)
(http://cdn.cmjornal.xl.pt/2015-01/img_757x426$2015_01_21_15_26_22_431024.jpg)
Maddie: Court gives as proven damage caused by Gonçalo Amaral
By Lusa
21 January 2015
Magistrate considers that the book reproduces excerpts appearing in the process.
This Wednesday the Court heard evidence that the book by former Inspector of Judicial Police (PJ) Gonçalo Amaral, entitled 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie', caused damage to the parents of Madeleine McCann, the British child who went missing in the Algarve in 2007.
In the Order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing in the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made arguidos, in September 2007, archived in July of the following year, without which the British couple wouldn't have been accused.
Madeleine McCann disappeared when she was four-years-old in the tourist village of Aldeia da Luz, near Portimao, where the family was on vacation. Kate and Gerry McCann have always maintained the position that Maddie was abducted. The case was recently reopened by prosecutors.
www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/maddie_tribunal_da_como_provado_danos_causados_por_goncalo_amaral_a_kate_e_gerry_mccann.html
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(http://i.imgur.com/zjaxBkw.jpg?1)
(http://cdn.cmjornal.xl.pt/2015-01/img_757x426$2015_01_22_00_07_57_431134.jpg)
McCann: "Couple destroyed before the book"
By Magali Pinto
22 January 2015
Judge Emilia Melo e Castro, who decides on the civil proceedings between the parents of Maddie and Gonçalo Amaral, former PJ detective, concluded that, "it has not been proved that Kate and Gerry McCann have been destroyed from a moral, social and ethical point of view "- despite considering that due to the publication of the book 'Maddie, the truth of the lie, Amaral, the couple" felt anger, despair, anxiety, worry, and suffered insomnia and lack of appetite."
These are some of the facts considered proven in the lawsuit filed by the parents of Madeleine - the girl who disappeared May 2007 from Praia da Luz in the Algarve, when she was three - they are seeking compensation of EUR 1.2 million.
The McCanns considered the book, which takes the view that parents are directly linked to the disappearance of the child, "shocking and an affront to the family."
The magistrate has not set a date for determining this civil action.
www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/2015_01_21_casal_destruido_antes_de_livro.html
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Compensatory damages?
Possibly.
Nothing seems to be clear in PT law.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1QEjSxsmDJQC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=Portugal+%22punitive+damages%22&source=bl&ots=oDdFj1Tdqk&sig=VkUqA2o_NTonMR_XwrxO3NN7h2M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=F3_FVKbOIsTZO9SOgLAD&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Portugal%20%22punitive%20damages%22&f=false
http://www.estig.ipbeja.pt/~ac_direito/European_Principles_Tort_Law_Portugal.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/antitrust/actionsdamages/national_reports/portugal_en.pdf
I'm not sure if this is within one of the above or not as I'm not sure of the link. This may be out of date and it referred to patent disputes, although the principles seem similar:
The Portuguese Civil Code stipulates that indemnities are the means by which a party who has suffered damage is restored to the situation he would have been in had the illegal action never occurred. Financial remedies are calculated by taking into consideration direct economic losses, lost income and moral damages. Punitive or exemplary damages are not accepted in Portugal and therefore only that loss which can actually be proved to have been suffered or is considered to be lost revenue will be taken into consideration. This is the first problem for most patent infringement cases, given that plaintiffs have few (if any) viable ways of proving that the infringer's actions actually affected sales or were detrimental to the plaintiff's image. Not only is there difficulty in proving damages and lost profits but, more crucially, it is often impossible to show the causal link between the infringer's activities and the losses claimed. Most Portuguese judges have not made matters easier, as they often adopt a strict view in terms of proof and reasonable claims. It is also commonplace to find that the plaintiff does not have adequate records ofd his sales and profits, or even a clear idea of the economic impact of the infringement on his business, and this obviously makes it extremely difficult [to] argue persuasively in court.
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And, on the topic of libel and arguidos, has any news outlet besides Amaral's latest interview confirmed that Murat is an arguido again? Or was that another mistake on his part?
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I doubt it, but then if Gonc wants to counter-sue he would have to do so in the UK presumably - I wonder if he's got the stamina (and the funds) for another court case in a foreign country, as well as fighting any appeal that might take place in his own with regard the current trial....
I see no reason why he shouldn't sue in PT if he wanted to.
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I see no reason why he shouldn't sue in PT if he wanted to.
What prevented the McCanns from suing him in England then?
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What prevented the McCanns from suing him in England then?
The book wasn't published in England.
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The book wasn't published in England.
So what have the McCanns published in Portugal then that has libelled Amaral?
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So what have the McCanns published in Portugal then that has libelled Amaral?
It won't be about libel. 8)-)))
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So what have the McCanns published in Portugal then that has libelled Amaral?
It is about damage not libel.
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It is about damage not libel.
Precisely.
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what I am saying is that an award of costs against the mccanns would not be enforceable in the uk
As someone explained to me, in Portugal, the parties involved in any court case pay the costs in advance and the losing party just doesn't get reimbursed.
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And, on the topic of libel and arguidos, has any news outlet besides Amaral's latest interview confirmed that Murat is an arguido again? Or was that another mistake on his part?
Amaral said: "It seems Murat is an arguido", he did not state it as a fact.
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As someone explained to me, in Portugal, the parties involved in any court case pay the costs in advance and the losing party just doesn't get reimbursed.
How can the costs be paid in advance if the length of the case is unknown, or is it a fixed charge ?
Or do the parties have to pay a deposit towards their costs ?
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How can the costs be paid in advance if the length of the case is unknown, or is it a fixed charge ?
Or do the parties have to pay a deposit towards their costs ?
They pay as they go along for every paper they ask for, every appeal, every document given to the court, etc. beforehand. They don't make one big payment at the beginning.
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They pay as they go along for every paper they ask for, every appeal, every document given to the court, etc. beforehand. They don't make one big payment at the beginning.
Thanks for that information Montclair.
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Perhaps that is one of the reasons that the fund appears deleted.
Would the lawyers require interim payments as well, particularly considering the length of time this has dragged on?
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Amaral said: "It seems Murat is an arguido", he did not state it as a fact.
Oh that's OK then. Obviously he had no intentions of deliberately conveying that misinformation to his audience - he just said it because.................................of what?
I wonder if Murat will take steps to demand a retraction. He should do IMO. A retraction/apology would be automatic in this country imo.
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Oh that's OK then. Obviously he had no intentions of deliberately conveying that misinformation to his audience - he just said it because.................................of what?
I wonder if Murat will take steps to demand a retraction. He should do IMO. A retraction/apology would be automatic in this country imo.
However as we are constantly told arguido does not mean suspect so it isn't really an issue.
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However as we are constantly told arguido does not mean suspect so it isn't really an issue.
That's not the point. What Amaral said in public about Murat was not true - and was not said for benign reasons IMO.
If it was wrongly claimed that Amaral was presently an Arguido in an ongoing case - I'm sure he would not let it pass without pointing out that this claim was a lie - and neither would any sceptic on this board.
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It is about damage not libel.
So if you can sue someone who lives abroad for damages why didn't the McCanns sue Amaral for damages from England (the question I asked earlier!)?
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So if you can sue someone who lives abroad for damages why didn't the McCanns sue Amaral for damages from England (the question I asked earlier!)?
Damages are always awarded for something.
If not libel, what?
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Because they wanted to punish him financially, perhaps?
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Because they wanted to punish him financially, perhaps?
That's not the answer. In all civil codes, damages are awarded for something.
Horse and cart.
There must be some infringement.
And the infringement gives rise to compensation in the form a damages award.
What is the infringement?
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Because they wanted to punish him financially, perhaps?
Pure REVENGE.
The nature of the McCann's..
Always blaming others for what they did wrong,
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So if you can sue someone who lives abroad for damages why didn't the McCanns sue Amaral for damages from England (the question I asked earlier!)?
The alleged libel was perpetrated in Portugal, by a Portuguese citizen and printed by Portuguese base publishers in Portuguese media about events which occurred in Portugal. No English court could entertain such a claim so let's stop being silly.
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Pure REVENGE.
The nature of the McCann's..
Always blaming others for what they did wrong,
So you don't count falsely accusing someone (or a couple) of something they never did as blaming others for what they did wrong (namely falsely accusing a couple of crimes for which they are innocent)?
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That's not the answer. In all civil codes, damages are awarded for something.
Horse and cart.
There must be some infringement.
And the infringement gives rise to compensation in the form a damages award.
What is the infringement?
I think we are at cross purposes - I was answering Alfie's question about suing from UK, rather than in Portugal. Any ruling for damages in UK court could not be enforced abroad.
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I think we are at cross purposes - I was answering Alfie's question about suing from UK, rather than in Portugal. Any ruling for damages in UK court could not be enforced abroad.
Ah!
OK
Beg your pardon ...
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)
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So you don't count falsely accusing someone (or a couple) of something they never did as blaming others for what they did wrong (namely falsely accusing a couple of crimes for which they are innocent)?
Until it is actually proved who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance ferryman.
Several options remain on the table,
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Perhaps that is one of the reasons that the fund appears deleted.
Would the lawyers require interim payments as well, particularly considering the length of time this has dragged on?
Is that a typo and you really meant depleted
It might be an explanation for the appearance of "Restricted Funds" in the accounts and the cumulative expenditure of ca £400k of "Restricted Funds" in FYs 2011/2012;2012/2013;2013/2014;.
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Until it is actually proved who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance ferryman.
Several options remain on the table,
TOTALLY AGREE...Stephen25000. After how many years, how many hours and how many detectives we know NOTHING.....
Its a cold case for me, and dont they usually go back to the beginning with cold cases?
I am not quite sure how anyone can actually say the parents were not responsible when there is no proof either way..... &%+((£
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The Express has changed its tune! Hmm... &%+((£
EXCLUSIVE: ‘McCanns will lose £1m libel trial’ Judge’s initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
By James Murray
(http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk.s3.amazonaws.com/img/dynamic/1/590x/kategerrymccann-554107.jpg)
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been “completely destroyed” from a “moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them”. And she said it was not proven that they would suffer “permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear”.
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have “felt badly” over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter’s body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral’s theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral’s book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
The McCanns’ lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge’s findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: “The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it’s me who defends those initial months of the investigation.”
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be “favourable” to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine’s disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough.
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554107/McCanns-will-lose-1m-trial-Portuguese-judge-s-initial-findings-against-Kate-and-Gerry
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)
...says police chief who made allegations in book
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?
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That's not the answer. In all civil codes, damages are awarded for something.
Horse and cart.
There must be some infringement.
And the infringement gives rise to compensation in the form a damages award.
What is the infringement?
The legal systems are so different, though. Look how vague this is:
Art. 484 (Action injurious to personal standing or good name): Whoever affirms or disseminates a fact capable of prejudicing the credit or good name of any person, private individual or legal person, is responsible for the damage caused.
Let's say you called me a horrible old cow ;) . In the UK, that would be your opinion and no one would assume that I am literally a 4-legged bovine typing with two hooves. In Portugal, I could claim that what you said caused enormous distress, loss of income, a divorce, my dog's suicide, the self-combustion of my child's pet hamster, whatever... but I'd have to prove a causal link and somehow quantify the damage caused.
As we know, in the UK, Sally Bercow was successfully sued for her "Why is McAlpine trending *innocent face*" tweet (or words to that effect). In PT, McAlpine would have had to prove any damage that that tweet caused and quantify it.
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Damages are always awarded for something.
If not libel, what?
It seems they were claiming damages for the pain suffering and emotional distress caused by the publication of "The Book" "The Video" etc.
The total sum claimed appears to have been approximately the sum alleged in the writ that Dr Amaral had earned from the book, the video and the TV appearance. The judge failed to uphold the alleged income based on documents submitted by the Portuguese Revenue Service which indicated the income was a fraction of that alleged in the writ.
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It seems they were claiming damages for the pain suffering and emotional distress caused by the publication of "The Book" "The Video" etc.
The total sum claimed appears to have been approximately the sum alleged in the writ that Dr Amaral had earned from the book, the video and the TV appearance. The judge failed to uphold the alleged income based on documents submitted by the Portuguese Revenue Service which indicated the income was a fraction of that alleged in the writ.
There is no doubt that they suffered and continue to do so but what the learned Judge has to decide is, did Amaral's comments constitute free speech under Portuguese Law or was their malice aforethought in what was said and published.
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As someone explained to me, in Portugal, the parties involved in any court case pay the costs in advance and the losing party just doesn't get reimbursed.
Really?
Then why was Amaral ordered to pay all court costs, when he lost his case against Marcos Corriea and Dores, when the case ended.
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...says police chief who made allegations in book
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?
Yep, of course he would. Will be interesting to see how the broadsheets report on the trial. I'm completely in the dark when it comes to matters of law. My feeling is they will get a very nominal payout if any given the caveats in the proven non proven facts. Wait and see I guess.
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Then why have the McCanns been seeking £1m from Amaral in a PT court? Have they been wrongly advised?
Those amounts were presumably not plucked out of thin air, but what could be considered as proven was the amount registered by the PT tax authorities. Does that amount concern royalties for books sold worldwide or just PT?
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Those amounts were presumably not plucked out of thin air, but what could be considered as proven was the amount registered by the PT tax authorities. Does that amount concern royalties for books sold worldwide or just PT?
Or the amount might have been an attempt at intimidation to get an out of court settlement.
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.............and now the tabloids.
"...a crushing preliminary ruling."
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/421998/Former-cop-who-accused-McCanns-of-covering-up-Maddie-death-says-they-will-lose-libel-case
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The alleged libel was perpetrated in Portugal, by a Portuguese citizen and printed by Portuguese base publishers in Portuguese media about events which occurred in Portugal. No English court could entertain such a claim so let's stop being silly.
Right! So where does this leave Amaral vis-à-vis his desire to sue the McCanns - can he do that from the comfort of his native habitat?
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Or the amount might have been an attempt at intimidation to get an out of court settlement.
It occurred to me sometime ago that the whole issue was never meant to get to court.
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Right! So where does this leave Amaral vis-à-vis his desire to sue the McCanns - can he do that from the comfort of his native habitat?
Certainly since that is where the loss has been sustained. Whether they answer the claim is entirely a matter for them.
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Right! So where does this leave Amaral vis-à-vis his desire to sue the McCanns - can he do that from the comfort of his native habitat?
If he has any sense he will leave it alone.
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It seems they were claiming damages for the pain suffering and emotional distress caused by the publication of "The Book" "The Video" etc.
The total sum claimed appears to have been approximately the sum alleged in the writ that Dr Amaral had earned from the book, the video and the TV appearance. The judge failed to uphold the alleged income based on documents submitted by the Portuguese Revenue Service which indicated the income was a fraction of that alleged in the writ.
It was proved what Amaral earned based on documents submitted by the Portuguese Revenue Service
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than €621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than €498.750,00?
(Items 3 & 4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned €342.111,86 from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved
6. The DVD has a cover price of € 6,00?
Proved that it was sold for 6,95 euro with newspaper Correio da Manhã.
7. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the DVD an amount that is not less than €112.500,00?
Proved that he earned 40.000 euro from DVD sales in 2008. Based on info from the Revenue Service.
8. The DVD that is mentioned under AN) has been edited and the edited copies have been sold by defendant “V.C. – Valentim
de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”?
Proved.
That is without what has already been sequestrated in 2009.
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If he has any sense he will leave it alone.
Don't you realise by now Alice that he is on a mission!!
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Don't you realise by now Alice that he is on a mission!!
He's been on a mission since May 4th 2007.
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If he has any sense he will leave it alone.
He should publish his biography (wouldn't be surprised if it's written already).
In English %£&)**#
It doesn't need to be at all controversial.
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If he has any sense he will leave it alone.
I agree.
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He should publish his biography (wouldn't be surprised if it's written already).
In English %£&)**#
It doesn't need to be at all controversial.
That would be an interesting development
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That would be an interesting development
8((()*/ I'd buy it.
He'd probably have to be restrained from saying controversial things though (he does seem to like doing it).
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Don't you realise by now Alice that he is on a mission!!
Oh yes rather; but if he sues and wins and is awarded damages he has to collect the damages. If the coffers are like Mother Hubbardsville he has lost out. He would have to sue the McCanns, not "The Fund", who it may transpire are impecunious or, to those whose schools played conkers rather than cricket or lacrosse, skint).
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It was proved what Amaral earned based on documents submitted by the Portuguese Revenue Service
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than €621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than €498.750,00?
(Items 3 & 4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned €342.111,86 from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved
6. The DVD has a cover price of € 6,00?
Proved that it was sold for 6,95 euro with newspaper Correio da Manhã.
7. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the DVD an amount that is not less than €112.500,00?
Proved that he earned 40.000 euro from DVD sales in 2008. Based on info from the Revenue Service.
8. The DVD that is mentioned under AN) has been edited and the edited copies have been sold by defendant “V.C. – Valentim
de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”?
Proved.
That is without what has already been sequestrated in 2009.
How (mis)use of that word earned grates ...
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So you don't think that writers earn money through their writing ?
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Certainly since that is where the loss has been sustained. Whether they answer the claim is entirely a matter for them.
What loss?
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So you don't think that writers earn money through their writing ?
In general, yes.
But not Amaral ...
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OK, so its just your prejudice against him that's showing.
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Really?
Then why was Amaral ordered to pay all court costs, when he lost his case against Marcos Corriea and Dores, when the case ended.
The money GA was not reimbursed went to pay the other parties court costs AFAIK.
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Or the amount might have been an attempt at intimidation to get an out of court settlement.
An interesting possibility, but the numbers still wouldn't have been plucked out of thin air as both parties would know that punitive damages aren't allowed (if my information on that is correct).
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An interesting possibility, but the numbers still wouldn't have been plucked out of thin air as both parties would know that punitive damages aren't allowed (if my information on that is correct).
Punitive damages don't seem to feature in Portuguese libel law.
But damage based on ill-gotten gains from his book, his video and interviews wouldn't seem to me to be punitive; rather proportionate to what Amaral has received from those sources.
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The Express has changed its tune! Hmm... &%+((£
EXCLUSIVE: ‘McCanns will lose £1m libel trial’ Judge’s initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
By James Murray
(http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk.s3.amazonaws.com/img/dynamic/1/590x/kategerrymccann-554107.jpg)
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been “completely destroyed” from a “moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them”. And she said it was not proven that they would suffer “permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear”.
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have “felt badly” over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter’s body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral’s theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral’s book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
The McCanns’ lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge’s findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: “The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it’s me who defends those initial months of the investigation.”
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be “favourable” to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine’s disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough.
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554107/McCanns-will-lose-1m-trial-Portuguese-judge-s-initial-findings-against-Kate-and-Gerry
So the express is saying...
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
whereas amaral actually said.....
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be “favourable” to him.
is it only me that can see the difference...
the celebrations are a little premature
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It was proved what Amaral earned based on documents submitted by the Portuguese Revenue Service
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than €621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than €498.750,00?
(Items 3 & 4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned €342.111,86 from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved
6. The DVD has a cover price of € 6,00?
Proved that it was sold for 6,95 euro with newspaper Correio da Manhã.
7. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the DVD an amount that is not less than €112.500,00?
Proved that he earned 40.000 euro from DVD sales in 2008. Based on info from the Revenue Service.
8. The DVD that is mentioned under AN) has been edited and the edited copies have been sold by defendant “V.C. – Valentim
de Carvalho – Filmes, Audiovisuais, S.A.”?
Proved.
That is without what has already been sequestrated in 2009.
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved
Is this the issue underlying the discrepancy over the amount of royalties? If G & P didn't sell the books in Brazil, who did? Did Amaral have all his royalties paid into a single account?
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An interesting possibility, but the numbers still wouldn't have been plucked out of thin air as both parties would know that punitive damages aren't allowed (if my information on that is correct).
Perhaps the McCanns didn't consider them punitive.
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So the express is saying...
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
whereas amaral actually said.....
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be “favourable” to him.
is it only me that can see the difference...
the celebrations are a little premature
It's James Murray, so there's always going to be his interpretation.
He'll probably be writing about Creepyman again next week.
Murray and Lawton will literally print anything, and have been for years.
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Prejudice?
I just look at the established facts of lie after lie Amaral is proven to have told and wonder whether Portuguese libel law actually will allow him to get away with it.
Surely not!
But if it does, Portugal does not have libel laws worthy of the name.
The laws of the State of Portugal are no concern of mine.
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In general, yes.
But not Amaral ...
If he had thought about it he could have made the same or more amount of money from a book written in a slightly different way without recourse to libelling the Drs McCann in the mean spirited and vengeful way that he did.
If he had written his book in a more analytical manner he could have paid off some of the debt owed to the National Treasury and the Bank of Espírito Santo and everyone's life would have been so much simpler.
It is really quite extraordinary that a person so deeply indebted and an arguido was allowed to act as the coordinator of an investigation into a missing child.
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If he had thought about it he could have made the same or more amount of money from a book written in a slightly different way without recourse to libelling the Drs McCann in the mean spirited and vengeful way that he did.
If he had written his book in a more analytical manner he could have paid off some of the debt owed to the National Treasury and the Bank of Espírito Santo and everyone's life would have been so much simpler.
It is really quite extraordinary that a person so deeply indebted and an arguido was allowed to act as the coordinator of an investigation into a missing child.
you are absolutely right...it shows amaral is not as bright as folks think he is...could have published in the UK too...would have made himself an absolute fortune
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I agree. Careful editing could have made it litigation-proof, at least in Portugal.
Not sure if he could have found a UK publisher even then.
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Punitive damages don't seem to feature in Portuguese libel law.
But damage based on ill-gotten gains from his book, his video and interviews wouldn't seem to me to be punitive; rather proportionate to what Amaral has received from those sources.
Yes, there's this:
ARTIGO 473º
(Princípio geral)
1. Aquele que, sem causa justificativa, enriquecer à custa de outrem é obrigado a restiuir aquilo com que injustamente se locupletou.
2. A obrigação de restituir, por enriquecimento sem causa, tem de modo especial por objecto o que for indevidamente recebido, ou o que for recebido por virtude de uma causa que deixou de existir ou em vista de um efeito que não se verificou.
http://pt.wikisource.org/wiki/Código_Civil_Português
However, it's still not clear why there is an apparent discrepancy in the amounts supposedly gained.
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I agree. Careful editing could have made it litigation-proof, at least in Portugal.
Not sure if he could have found a UK publisher even then.
Authors and publishers are in the business of making money and if it had been written in a different way UK publishers would have been in a bidding war to get their hands on it.
I think Dr Amaral could not see the wood for the trees, he knew there was money to be made short term because a very lucrative book had been written by the coordinator of Joana Cipriano's case.
For some reason I think it was also 'pay back' time for the Drs McCann who disgracefully did not agree with his theory to the extent of vociferously protesting their innocence.
Transference of blame to the McCanns for his spats with debt, the law and the PJ pre-dated Madeleine McCann's birth and therefore make little sense.
As coordinator of one of the hottest criminal cases in history he had the goose that was capable of laying baskets of golden eggs for him. He might have had the respect he so longs for instead of waiting for the judge to publish a verdict which I think may well cost him dear.
All he had to do was write a proper account of his part in Madeleine's case, certainly with a different title and certainly one which actually told the truth.
I don't think he will ever write another best seller for the simple reason I think his credibility has taken a severe knock, worldwide but perhaps of importance to him in Portugal.
Just watching the video of the audience and the anchors in his TV interview was instructive ... and I think it might prove another miscalculation on his part depending on the judge's take if she sees it, and I am sure she will.
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Authors and publishers are in the business of making money and if it had been written in a different way UK publishers would have been in a bidding war to get their hands on it.
I think Dr Amaral could not see the wood for the trees, he knew there was money to be made short term because a very lucrative book had been written by the coordinator of Joana Cipriano's case.
For some reason I think it was also 'pay back' time for the Drs McCann who disgracefully did not agree with his theory to the extent of vociferously protesting their innocence.
Transference of blame to the McCanns for his spats with debt, the law and the PJ pre-dated Madeleine McCann's birth and therefore make little sense.
As coordinator of one of the hottest criminal cases in history he had the goose that was capable of laying baskets of golden eggs for him. He might have had the respect he so longs for instead of waiting for the judge to publish a verdict which I think may well cost him dear.
All he had to do was write a proper account of his part in Madeleine's case, certainly with a different title and certainly one which actually told the truth.
I don't think he will ever write another best seller for the simple reason I think his credibility has taken a severe knock, worldwide but perhaps of importance to him in Portugal.
Just watching the video of the audience and the anchors in his TV interview was instructive ... and I think it might prove another miscalculation on his part depending on the judge's take if she sees it, and I am sure she will.
I agree with everything you have said and would add I think it was the fact that he thought he could get away with anything that has led to this.....he just isn't use to people standing up to him
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Authors and publishers are in the business of making money and if it had been written in a different way UK publishers would have been in a bidding war to get their hands on it.
I think Dr Amaral could not see the wood for the trees, he knew there was money to be made short term because a very lucrative book had been written by the coordinator of Joana Cipriano's case.
For some reason I think it was also 'pay back' time for the Drs McCann who disgracefully did not agree with his theory to the extent of vociferously protesting their innocence.
Transference of blame to the McCanns for his spats with debt, the law and the PJ pre-dated Madeleine McCann's birth and therefore make little sense.
As coordinator of one of the hottest criminal cases in history he had the goose that was capable of laying baskets of golden eggs for him. He might have had the respect he so longs for instead of waiting for the judge to publish a verdict which I think may well cost him dear.
All he had to do was write a proper account of his part in Madeleine's case, certainly with a different title and certainly one which actually told the truth.
I don't think he will ever write another best seller for the simple reason I think his credibility has taken a severe knock, worldwide but perhaps of importance to him in Portugal.
Just watching the video of the audience and the anchors in his TV interview was instructive ... and I think it might prove another miscalculation on his part depending on the judge's take if she sees it, and I am sure she will.
&%+((£ Written in a different way? In 2008? Even if it did have GA's name on it, who would have bought a book that said even less than the one by Danny Collins?
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&%+((£ Written in a different way? In 2008? Even if it did have GA's name on it, who would have bought a book that said even less than the one by Danny Collins?
I see Fred who didn't bother to buy a copy has a really sceptical take on Danny Collins book; first in the customer review list on Amazon although not a customer.
Just a point of information ... have you read it?
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I see Fred who didn't bother to buy a copy has a really sceptical take on Danny Collins book; first in the customer review list on Amazon although not a customer.
Just a point of information ... have you read it?
I read it. Who's Fred? Collins doesn't say much, but he did prefer the 10pm sighting over JT's (as did GA of course).
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Some of you do not understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not write the book to make money. As he has often said, he wrote it not only for his honour but for the honour of the investigation, his colleagues and the institution of the PJ. Furthermore, neither he nor the publisher thought that the book would be a best seller. I do realise that this concept is difficult for some to comprehend, since in the eyes of some posters here that he is evil incarnate.
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Some of you do not understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not write the book to make money. As he has often said, he wrote it not only for his honour but for the honour of the investigation, his colleagues and the institution of the PJ. Furthermore, neither he nor the publisher thought that the book would be a best seller. I do realise that this concept is difficult for some to comprehend, since in the eyes of some posters here that he is evil incarnate.
What was the initial print run of the book then?
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Some of you do not understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not write the book to make money. As he has often said, he wrote it not only for his honour but for the honour of the investigation, his colleagues and the institution of the PJ. Furthermore, neither he nor the publisher thought that the book would be a best seller. I do realise that this concept is difficult for some to comprehend, since in the eyes of some posters here that he is evil incarnate.
and to some the McCanns are evil incarnate
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&%+((£ Written in a different way? In 2008? Even if it did have GA's name on it, who would have bought a book that said even less than the one by Danny Collins?
By the time the book came, anyone who'd been following the case would have known Amaral's name as the former coordinator. People would have bought it out of curiosity, whatever he'd said.
Danny Collins's book wasn't translated into Portuguese, was it?
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Some of you do not understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not write the book to make money. As he has often said, he wrote it not only for his honour but for the honour of the investigation, his colleagues and the institution of the PJ. Furthermore, neither he nor the publisher thought that the book would be a best seller. I do realise that this concept is difficult for some to comprehend, since in the eyes of some posters here that he is evil incarnate.
The concept is so difficult to understand that Dr Amaral's superiors in the PJ didn't latch on to it either ... otherwise, why sack him from Madeleine's case?
National police director Alipio Ribeiro last night confirmed that Mr Amaral had been removed from the case and demoted, saying it was a "decision I took myself".
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4
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The concept is so difficult to understand that Dr Amaral's superiors in the PJ didn't latch on to it either ... otherwise, why sack him from Madeleine's case?
National police director Alipio Ribeiro last night confirmed that Mr Amaral had been removed from the case and demoted, saying it was a "decision I took myself".
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4
Gonçalo Amaral was not demoted, in fact he got a promotion when was sent back to the Faro headquarters.
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The concept is so difficult to understand that Dr Amaral's superiors in the PJ didn't latch on to it either ... otherwise, why sack him from Madeleine's case?
National police director Alipio Ribeiro last night confirmed that Mr Amaral had been removed from the case and demoted, saying it was a "decision I took myself".
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4
?>)()< Because he was going to appear in court re perjury charges and no boss worth his salt would risk jeopardising an investigation under those circumstances. So give him an OBE sideways. Simples.
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By the time the book came, anyone who'd been following the case would have known Amaral's name as the former coordinator. People would have bought it out of curiosity, whatever he'd said.
Danny Collins's book wasn't translated into Portuguese, was it?
I doubt it, but I don't know tbh.
With GA I'd buy a more biographical, less controversial book by him now. But in 2008 people were hoping for a book that said everything they wanted to say themselves, and I don't think they would have bought a watered down one. The book he did produce was already a disappointment for many, because it said little or nothing we didn't already know. But as Montclair indicates he wasn't writing it for us anyway.
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Some of you do not understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not write the book to make money. As he has often said, he wrote it not only for his honour but for the honour of the investigation, his colleagues and the institution of the PJ. Furthermore, neither he nor the publisher thought that the book would be a best seller. I do realise that this concept is difficult for some to comprehend, since in the eyes of some posters here that he is evil incarnate.
I think the attempt to ban it gave it a boost of interest it may not have otherwise had.
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I think the attempt to ban it gave it a boost of interest it may not have otherwise had.
how many had sold before the first attemt to ban it, do you know?
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Gonçalo Amaral was not demoted, in fact he got a promotion when was sent back to the Faro headquarters.
Funnily enough Dr Amaral seems to be labouring under the impression he was sacked and spends quite a lot of time explaining the injustice of it all.
Hmmm ... promotion ?? ... don't really think so ...
Chapter 21: The dismissal of the head of an investigation: conspiracy or submission?
**snip
It is shortly after 2pm, in the middle of lunch, that I receive the news.
The National Director has sent a fax to the Portimão DIC: in it, he stipulates the end of my assignment and requests my return to Faro.
Today, October 2nd, is my 48th birthday; this is not the present I wanted, but one that I was expecting.
Basically, this brings to an end a campaign of defamation and insults that I have been the target of since the start of the case, the whole thing orchestrated and amplified by the British media.
The strategy is simple: call into question the investigation and those who lead it and, at the same time, present Portugal as a Third-World country with a legal system and police force worthy of the Middle Ages.
http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/chapter-21-dismissal-of-head-of.html
Must just be a mistranslation from Portuguese to French to English.
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By the time the book came, anyone who'd been following the case would have known Amaral's name as the former coordinator. People would have bought it out of curiosity, whatever he'd said.
Much like Kate's book. Kinda explains why they both turned out to be best sellers !
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Some of you do not understand
EXACTLY. He only wrote what was in the process at the time it wasnt just what he was thinking though was it...?
No one had to buy it......IF he did make a lot of money from the sales, then perhaps it shows that not everyone is or was on the McCanns side of things...just a thought.
I read the book actually i read Mrs McCanns as well, and didnt they bring in the guy from Africa with his magical machine to look for her body, so surely they must have been thinking the child was deceased anyway so how could Amarals book stop people looking for her, if they had also done so themselves?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486196/I-know-Madeleine-buried-says-body-finder-hired-McCanns.html
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For me, the two most reliable indicators of the way things have gone for Amaral are the pronouncements of his own lawyers.
First, we had Santos requesting that proceedings be in camera to protect Madeleine lest Madeleine be alive.
Perhaps that's why Amaral sacked him?
Then, in the most recent court proceedings, we had Amaral's (latest!) lawyer, banging, not the TheMcCannsdunsomethingdreadfultoMadeleineandcovereditup drum, but the other one TheMcCannswerenegligent drum (also dismissed by the prosecutors).
I would say it looks bleak for Amaral.
Does anyone know where Joana Morais has gone?
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For me, the two most reliable indicators of the way things have gone for Amaral are the pronouncements of his own lawyers.
First, we had Santos requesting that proceedings be in camera to protect Madeleine lest Madeleine be alive.
Perhaps that's why Amaral sacked him?
Then, in the most recent court proceedings, we had Amaral's (latest!) lawyer, banging, not the TheMcCannsdunsomethingdreadfultoMadeleineandcovereditup drum, but the other one TheMcCannswerenegligent drum (also dismissed by the prosecutors).
I would say it looks bleak for Amaral.
Does anyone know where Joana Morais has gone?
haven't you got it yet ferryman ?
The mccanns have singularly failed to prove their case.
Bleak for Amaral ?
That merely reinforces how you are not in touch with reality.
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haven't you got it yet ferryman ?
The mccanns have singularly failed to prove their case.
Bleak for Amaral ?
That merely reinforces how you are not in touch with reality.
That's not what amaral said in his recent interview
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That's not what amaral said in his recent interview
Just remind us of the points of contention that the Judge says has not been proved ?
NOT PROVED.....
e.g. The book has not harmed the search for Madeleine.
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Just remind us of the points of contention that the Judge says has not been proved ?
NOT PROVED.....
e.g. The book has not harmed the search for Madeleine.
We seem to be losing sight of the fact that the writ (according the bit The Mirror was allowed to print) was for damages for:
Madeleine (ca 450k),
Drs McCann(ca 225k each)
Amelie and Sean (ca 85k each)
The unit of currency seems to have been movable feast in what has been published down the years.
So has the claim for Madeleine been allowed?
Has it been proven that Amelie and Sean are entitled to damages?
It seems to me on the basis of what are told has been proved the pickings will be slim.
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Just remind us of the points of contention that the Judge says has not been proved ?
NOT PROVED.....
e.g. The book has not harmed the search for Madeleine.
its the ones that have been proved that are important
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its the ones that have been proved that are important
No dave, it isn't.
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The questions are how important? and what will be the outcome and for that we must wait for the final gripping installment.
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No dave, it isn't.
of course it's the ones that have been proved that are important
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We seem to be losing sight of the fact that the writ (according the bit The Mirror was allowed to print) was for damages for:
Madeleine (ca 450k),
Drs McCann(ca 225k each)
Amelie and Sean (ca 85k each)
The unit of currency seems to have been movable feast in what has been published down the years.
So has the claim for Madeleine been allowed?
Has it been proven that Amelie and Sean are entitled to damages?
It seems to me on the basis of what are told has been proved the pickings will be slim.
Good points Alice. 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
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of course it's the ones that have been proved that are important
and what did the judge say dave ?
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and what did the judge say dave ?
according to amaral some of the points have been proved
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according to amaral some of the points have been proved
What did the judge say dave ?
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What did the judge say dave ?
have you not read whats available.......of course we don't know the source or how accurate it is..but according to what's available the judge found that the book had affected the mccanns
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have you not read whats available.......of course we don't know the source or how accurate it is..but according to what's available the judge found that the book dad affected the mccanns
But apparently not to any great extent. Exactly what that means remains to be seen.
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But apparently not to any great extent. Exactly what that means remains to be seen.
the judge did not say"not to any great extent"........it remains to be seen how much damage the judge considers has been caused by the book but good to see you accept that the judge thinks damage was caused
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the judge did not say"not to any great extent"........it remains to be seen how much damage the judge considers has been caused by the book but good to see you accept that the judge thinks damage was caused
The book would cause trouble for them guilty or innocent or both!!
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the judge did not say"not to any great extent"........it remains to be seen how much damage the judge considers has been caused by the book but good to see you accept that the judge thinks damage was caused
I wouldn't dream of disputing what the judge said - why should I ?
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The book would cause trouble for them guilty or innocent or both!!
It was inevitable that a story about two doctors whose daughter disappeared while on holiday with them would catch the public eye in the way it did. Traditionally the title Dr has attracted much respect within communities but in return those endowed with such a title are expected to behave in a manner which befits that title. Unfortunately, relatively recent events where doctors and GP's have fallen foul of the law has left a very bad taste with said public.
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according to amaral....the mccanns have not managed to prove all their points...they have proved some of their points..that's a success in my book......that's all I will respond to on this thread.
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according to amaral....the mccanns have not managed to prove all their points...they have proved some of their points..that's a success in my book......that's all I will respond to on this thread.
27 points Proved.
7 points Not proved
3 points Nil points
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27 points Proved.
7 points Not proved
3 points Nil points
Now can you provide a transcript showing all these points.
and more poignantly which ones were in contention.
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Now can you provide a transcript showing all these points.
and more poignantly which ones were in contention.
Certainly a lot less than 27
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Certainly a lot less than 27
Indeed.
Unless you believe in magic.
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Certainly a lot less than 27
It all sounds rather like the scoring system in Gaelic Football.
I wonder how many items detailed in the writ were proven?
It's such a shame we will not not know until possibly Octember.
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Now can you provide a transcript showing all these points.
and more poignantly which ones were in contention.
Read them and you will see.
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Read them and you will see.
Provide all the points then.
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Provide all the points then.
Nah! you don't want to know the ones where somebody proved what day of the week it was.
Random selection of four proven points courtesy Astro:
17. Sean and Amelie MacCann will soon become aware of the conclusions that are mentioned in J), because they will go to school?
It is proved that Sean and Amelie started school in August of 2010 and have not learned about Mr Amaral's thesis yet.
18. 63.369 copies of the DVD were not sold, having been destroyed afterwards?
Proved.
19. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has gone into retirement from the Polícia Judiciária on 1.6.2008?
Proved that he retired on July 1st, 2008.
20. On 22.6.2008, the Attorney General’s Office published a note for the media, announcing the archiving of the inquiry, awaiting better evidence?
It is proved that such a note was issued on the 21st of July of 2008, the note also informed that the case could be reopened if new evidence appeared and prompted relevant diligences.
Mind bending stuff what? apart from 17. Which basically says; well let me not paraphrase when we can all read it and work out what it has proved.
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There appears to be some confusion over the Portuguese civil court procedure and in particular the previously mentioned "Allegations in law" and when they are presented. Like many, I have found this confusing.
To clarify, there are two occasions when these are presented by lawyers. Firstly, oral allegations in respect of and following the conclusion of the evidence. And secondly, written allegations in respect of the list of proven facts which the judge previously provided to lawyers.
This full explanation should help...
4- What is the basic trial structure?
While the parties must provide proof to support their respective positions, judges may order certain actions to clarify the alleged facts, provided they preserve the right of defence of both parties.
At the end of the trial, attorneys will produce oral allegations on the facts presented in the trial, explaining which of them (and why) should or should not be considered proved. Afterwards the judge will pass a decision on the facts, explaining which facts (of the list prepared in the preliminary hearing) are considered to have been proved by the court, why and on which grounds.
The parties will subsequently be allowed to file written submissions containing their final legal allegations, through which they will describe their understanding of the law applying to the facts evidenced.
The court is then expected to render its award on the case. The court is bound by the facts alleged by the parties and by the relief sought, but is free to apply the law to the facts as it deems more correct; in particular, the court shall not be limited by any legal qualification given to the facts by the parties.
As a general rule, trials run on consecutive days.
It is a fundamental principle of Portuguese procedural law that court sessions are open to the public. In exceptional circumstances, the public may be excluded from hearings, to protect parties’ dignity or to guarantee the normal working of the court. Court documents are not available to the public. However, third parties may access court records if they are able to show a legitimate interest.
As written statements are not generally foreseen in the law – except for cases where it is impossible or difficult to have the witness appear in court – all the testimonies are made live and orally.
www.worldservicesgroup.com/publications.asp?action=article&artid=2914
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Thank you, John!
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This section doesn't make sense to me at the moment.
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than € 621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than € 498.750,00?
(Items 3&4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned 342.111,86 euro from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved.
(...)
7. 7. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the DVD an amount that is not less than € 112.500,00?
Proved that he earned 40.000 euro from DVD sales in 2008. Based on info from the Revenue Service.
I'm wondering if there's a mistake somewhere. There are four defendants, yet the only points of fact related to alleged revenue concern Amaral? Or are the higher amounts in question the total of estimated gross revenue for all four defendants and only Amaral's needed clarification?
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This section doesn't make sense to me at the moment.
3. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the book “Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira” an amount that is not less than € 621.000,00?
4. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of editions in foreign languages of the book an amount that is not less than € 498.750,00?
(Items 3&4) It is proved that Gonçalo Amaral earned 342.111,86 euro from the sales of the book in the years 2008 and 2009. This information is based on data from the Portuguese Revenue Agency.
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved.
(...)
7. 7. Defendant Gonçalo Amaral has earned from the sale of the DVD an amount that is not less than € 112.500,00?
Proved that he earned 40.000 euro from DVD sales in 2008. Based on info from the Revenue Service.
I'm wondering if there's a mistake somewhere. There are four defendants, yet the only points of fact related to alleged revenue concern Amaral? Or are the higher amounts in question the total of estimated gross revenue for all four defendants and only Amaral's needed clarification?
It does appear to be only Amaral.
Could it be an account of his capital to estimate affordability ….for Damage pay out reasons, should damage payment be valid in the verdict? I don't know about the others though.
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Thank you, John!
My pleasure.
Reading back through this thread there appeared to be a bit of confusion about this aspect of Portuguese Law so clarification was needed and hopefully I have provided it.
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It does appear to be only Amaral.
Could it be an account of his capital to estimate affordability ….for Damage pay out reasons, should damage payment be valid in the verdict? I don't know about the others though.
It seems that one of the "quesitos" (questions on the list of 37) was with regard to the amount Gonçalo Amaral had earned from the book and the DVD. From the answer, he has earned about one third of what the McCanns claimed he earned.
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No idea, Anna.
Another point that mystifies me.
From the initial injunction ruling:
"... Concerning the fifth witness, although her knowledge of the facts that she was questioned about comes from a set of investigative tasks that tend to sustain the allegation that is made in this injunction, what is certain is that, together with the documents that have been appended to the process, it was possible to establish that the book in question has already been subject to a Spanish edition in May 2009, a French one in June 2009, a German one (also for the Swiss and Austrian markets) in June 2009, then an Italian and a Dutch one, and Defendant ‘Guerra e Paz’ has also launched an edition in Brazil [8].
Note [8] added by Astro for clarification: The Brazilian edition does not exist, as was later clarified during a hearing on the 13th of January 2010.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/court_docs.htm#court
Yet...
5. The book was sold in Brazil by defendant “Guerra e Paz, Editores, S.A.”?
Not proved.
Assuming the reports are accurate, what does this actually mean?
1. That G & P hadn't launched their own edition in Brazil?
2. That they hadn't sold the rights to another publishing house to do so?
3. That any copies were sold directly by online book stores (e.g., Amazon.br) and that therefore any revenue from Brazil was already accounted for in the number of sales?
4. That book shops ordered stock to be physically shipped over to Brazil and that therefore any revenue from Brazil was already accounted for in the number of sales?
5. That no copies of the book were ever sold in Brazil?
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It seems that one of the "quesitos" (questions on the list of 37) was with regard to the amount Gonçalo Amaral had earned from the book and the DVD. From the answer, he has earned about one third of what the McCanns claimed he earned.
That's why I'm asking if the higher amounts corresponded to the global revenue of all defendants, as opposed to just Amaral's royalties.
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Random selection of four proven points courtesy Astro:
17. Sean and Amelie MacCann will soon become aware of the conclusions that are mentioned in J), because they will go to school?
It is proved that Sean and Amelie started school in August of 2010 and have not learned about Mr Amaral's thesis yet.
On this point... Kate testified in court that Sean had asked her if it was true that Amaral had said that they had hidden Madeleine. Was that not taken into account?
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It seems that one of the "quesitos" (questions on the list of 37) was with regard to the amount Gonçalo Amaral had earned from the book and the DVD. From the answer, he has earned about one third of what the McCanns claimed he earned.
Amarals earnings 2008/2009 After tax
22.500.00
22.500.00
22.500.00
22.500.00
6.750.00
3.375.00
6.750.00
18.000.00
14.850.00
12.301.97
187.036.20
4.837.50
---------------
343.900.67 TOTAL
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On this point... Kate testified in court that Sean had asked her if it was true that Amaral had said that they had hidden Madeleine. Was that not taken into account?
My understanding was that the judge had originally ruled out statements by the defendants and plaintiffs as she thought them unnecessary. Dra Duarte made an appeal which was upheld to allow Drs McCann to speak to the court. The judge however was still at liberty to decide whether or not anything in the statement was relevant and carried weight. The basic comment as I recall was that Sean had heard it on the school bus radio. That could be regarded as hearsay I guess.
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Amarals earnings 2008/2009 After tax
22.500.00
22.500.00
22.500.00
22.500.00
6.750.00
3.375.00
6.750.00
18.000.00
14.850.00
12.301.97
187.036.20
4.837.50
---------------
343.900.67 TOTAL
It all seems so vague. Depending on how that's calculated, he gained anywhere between 1/5 to 1/3 of the global revenue cited (book and DVD).
Did he do the documentary for free? Or is any fee included as "DVD sales"?
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Amarals earnings 2008/2009 After tax
22.500.00
22.500.00
22.500.00
22.500.00
6.750.00
3.375.00
6.750.00
18.000.00
14.850.00
12.301.97
187.036.20
4.837.50
---------------
343.900.67 TOTAL
Where did you find that, DCI? I think I've come across that before but I can't remember where. Were these all amounts related to the book?
3 – Said book attained 4 editions until the end of July of 2008, 9 editions until the end of August of 2008, and 12 editions until the end of September of 2008;
4 – Each edition was of 10.000 copies;
09-09-2009
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/court_docs.htm
Based on the initial print and 3 reprints, his royalties on the book would appear to be around €2.50 per copy before tax and thereafter may have fluctuated depending on the terms of the contract.
It's not clear whether the book's price refers to the recommended retail price or not.
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187.036.20
[/b]
What's this huge amount for? Royalties in arrears? Other associated income?
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My understanding was that the judge had originally ruled out statements by the defendants and plaintiffs as she thought them unnecessary. Dra Duarte made an appeal which was upheld to allow Drs McCann to speak to the court. The judge however was still at liberty to decide whether or not anything in the statement was relevant and carried weight. The basic comment as I recall was that Sean had heard it on the school bus radio. That could be regarded as hearsay I guess.
That's possible...
However, a substantial amount of Amaral's book would appear to be based on hearsay (if "we" is meant to mean the PJ as a collective as opposed to himself personally, plus others.)
If Sean heard it on the radio on the bus, then it should be relatively easy to prove if any radio station had reported on the case at a time when he could have heard it (or heard it before he decided to tell his mum, or heard it via others who'd heard it and who had told him a few days previously)... unless it was too late to submit verfiable evidence as, by that stage, it was the equivalent of "emotional impact statements".
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?>)()< Because he was going to appear in court re perjury charges and no boss worth his salt would risk jeopardising an investigation under those circumstances. So give him an OBE sideways. Simples.
LOL
I've no idea where Montclair got the idea that he was "promoted" to Faro from (aside from Levyspiel)... that's where he was based in the first place at some point around the time of the Cipriano fiasco.
His family was in the Algarve area, so it might not have been considered fair to exile him to the Azores or any other far-flung outpost.
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What's this huge amount for? Royalties in arrears? Other associated income?
Number 11 on reciepts.
http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t3821-so-gonc-has-no-money.
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LOL
I've no idea where Montclair got the idea that he was "promoted" to Faro from (aside from Levyspiel)... that's where he was based in the first place at some point around the time of the Cipriano fiasco.
His family was in the Algarve area, so it might not have been considered fair to exile him to the Azores or any other far-flung outpost.
I think both sides tend to read far too much into what, for my money was an eminently sensible move by his bosses. In any other case it would have been said "Oh yeah smooth move". Attach the name McCann to it, stand back and watch things rip.
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Courtesy of Astro from events on 21st Jan 2015I found this interesting:
21. The criminal inquiry was reopened due to the appearance of new evidence?
Not proved.
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I think both sides tend to read far too much into what, for my money was an eminently sensible move by his bosses. In any other case it would have been said "Oh yeah smooth move". Attach the name McCann to it, stand back and watch things rip.
I'm not sure what you mean.
Amaral was "promoted" sideways to the nearest place in the general area, which happened to be a larger precinct. What was his new title, if he had one? Or is it simply the fact of having been moved from Portimão to Faro that was considered to qualify as a promotion?
Tavares de Almeida was given "sabbatical leave", often granted to pursue further studies, according to Levyspiel.
Torture cases in both the Cipriano and the Borges cases were filtering through and the authorities had to be seen to be doing something.
Neither of these officers should have been on the case in the first place.
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Courtesy of Astro from events on 21st Jan 2015I found this interesting:
21. The criminal inquiry was reopened due to the appearance of new evidence?
Not proved.
I found that interesting as well. The reopening may not be based on new evidence, but on existing evidence in the files that may not have been adequately investigated at the time. And that depends on which files were being considered.
There doesn't seem to have been a comprehensive database at the time, let alone one which would integrate GNR and PJ reports / findings.
Mrs Fenn was burgled, yet whatever statement she'd made to the GNR isn't in the accessible files. Did the PJ check this further, or not? What about all the other burglaries? They would have been in GNR files... somewhere.
I'm not sure that there is one even now, although there may be progress in this direction.
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If this information was in GNR files, the PJ may not even have been aware of its existence.
I believe a similar situation used to exist in UK between forces of different regions - before they got fully computerised.
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Number 11 on reciepts.
http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t3821-so-gonc-has-no-money.
Thanks. That seems to be an enormous sudden amount. What's the explanation?
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I'm not sure what you mean.
Amaral was "promoted" sideways to the nearest place in the general area, which happened to be a larger precinct. What was his new title, if he had one? Or is it simply the fact of having been moved from Portimão to Faro that was considered to qualify as a promotion?
Tavares de Almeida was given "sabbatical leave", often granted to pursue further studies, according to Levyspiel.
Torture cases in both the Cipriano and the Borges cases were filtering through and the authorities had to be seen to be doing something.
Neither of these officers should have been on the case in the first place.
That maybe so but they were on the case. We can debate til the cows come home whether or not they should have been it will not change the fact.
My point was:
Had I been the honcho in charge of an investigation that had suddenly mushroomed to become of international interest I would have elbowed from the inquiry anyone who looked like they could become a liability for whatever reason. Forgetting names and all that haraz would you want the coordinator of case like that to be a man who was about to be charged with criminal offence?. What would you do under circumstances?
What happened was the only logical action. No conspiracy no nothing just a sound business move.
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Thanks. That seems to be an enormous sudden amount. What's the explanation?
Ah the purple cavern of gloom strikes again.
Very reliable then. @)(++(*
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That maybe so but they were on the case. We can debate til the cows come home whether or not they should have been it will not change the fact.
My point was:
Had I been the honcho in charge of an investigation that had suddenly mushroomed to become of international interest I would have elbowed from the inquiry anyone who looked like they could become a liability for whatever reason. Forgetting names and all that haraz would you want the coordinator of case like that to be a man who was about to be charged with criminal offence?. What would you do under circumstances?
What happened was the only logical action. No conspiracy no nothing just a sound business move.
If I've understood you correctly (although I'm not certain that I have), I would agree.
I think that anyone sensible would have "promoted" them to other investigations pronto, far away from the media.
Issues may have been that:
- the superiors thought that the case would be resolved quickly, but it wasn't and the whole situation escalated into chaos;
- there was no internal diplomatic system in place in which to quietly replace the original team quickly without too many feathers being ruffled.
- there was no PJ media service, until they wheeled in poor de Sousa to have a face in front of the cameras to say absolutely nothing new - and therefore the tabloids started poking their noses around;
- the head of Faro at the time (old school) may already have been seriously ill at the time and was unable to cope with the stress of both personal and professional issues (he did die, RIP);
- regional police sensitivities were no doubt delicate;
- there was no one else to replace them at regional level... and superiors (whoever they may have been once Faro honcho was very ill) may have not wanted to draw media attention to looming investigations into the key investigators already involved in the Madeleine case concerning other cases;
- there were all kinds of potential corruption issues looming involving regional politicians, some of which may involve police officers (as in the UK and elsewhere), although not much appears to be clear for the moment;
- Amaral ended up as de facto head honcho and didn't appreciate the support from the UK, but neither did he appreciate the boys from Lisbon brought in to "assist". Instead of appreciating the support, he seemed to have taken it as an insult.
The problem, however, was that he was totally out of his depth and refused to admit it.
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On this point... Kate testified in court that Sean had asked her if it was true that Amaral had said that they had hidden Madeleine. Was that not taken into account?
IIRC, it was Trish Cameron who testified that it was Kate who told her about the alleged incident of the school bus. Hearsay at the least. Unbelievable really. Have any of you been on a bus with school children? You can't hear yourself think much less the radio.
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IIRC, it was Trish Cameron who testified that it was Kate who told her about the alleged incident of the school bus. Hearsay at the least. Unbelievable really. Have any of you been on a bus with school children? You can't hear yourself think much less the radio.
Unless you (or your pals) hear your name...
According to the report made by Anne Guedes, Kate testified:
Judge – Do the twins know about the book, the documentary?
KMC answers that of course they use computers at school and at home and she has to be very careful and try to supervise the information they get.
Judge – Do they have a global idea about what people say?
KMC mentions that her son, in October asked her why Mr Amaral said that they hid Madeleine. She answered that there were many stupid things in his book.
Judge – How did your son know about that? How was it possible if you were careful to prevent access to the book?
KMC thinks he heard it on the radio, in the school bus.
Judge – So what did you do?
KMC says that they spoke to David Trickey who advised them to let the twins make comments and just answer when they ask questions. She says that they had to contact the school in case a child would tell the twins about something that is in the book. She says that the book is noxious for adults and must be even more damaging for children.
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Is there evidence of a radio programme in the UK on that day reporting on Gonçalo Amaral?
It is correct that Trish Cameron did not mention the bus incident,but she did say in court that Amelie mentioned that the kids at school talked about the case. Isabel Duarte asked her if the girl told her directly and she answered "No".
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Is there evidence of a radio programme in the UK on that day reporting on Gonçalo Amaral?
I have no idea on which day this was alleged to have happened, nor whether Sean brought the subject up on the same day (sometimes kids keep worries to themselves for a while).
In any event, would it have been accepted in terms of evidence beyond an impact statement by the plaintiffs?
If bombarding the UK with booklets and media interviews in Amaral's honour, based on his theory, over several years doesn't constitute damage, then I doubt that a radio broadcast on a school bus would, either.
Why does it appear to have been disregarded?
One possibility may be that such antics wouldn't be considered as having a direct link to damage, just as he may not be accountable if some nutjob did decide to waterboard the parents, kidnap the twins or firebomb the family home.
According to that logic, however, Hitler and his handful of close cronies were not ultimately responsible for the Holocaust.
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I have no idea on which day this was alleged to have happened, nor whether Sean brought the subject up on the same day (sometimes kids keep worries to themselves for a while).
In any event, would it have been accepted in terms of evidence beyond an impact statement by the plaintiffs?
If bombarding the UK with booklets and media interviews in Amaral's honour, based on his theory, over several years doesn't constitute damage, then I doubt that a radio broadcast on a school bus would, either.
Why does it appear to have been disregarded?
One possibility may be that such antics wouldn't be considered as having a direct link to damage, just as he may not be accountable if some nutjob did decide to waterboard the parents, kidnap the twins or firebomb the family home.
According to that logic, however, Hitler and his handful of close cronies were not ultimately responsible for the Holocaust.
Media interviews in the UK spouting Gonçalo Amaral's or rather the police investigation's theory? When has anyone been able to do an interview in any way critical of the McCanns in the UK?
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Unless you (or your pals) hear your name...
According to the report made by Anne Guedes, Kate testified:
Judge – Do the twins know about the book, the documentary?
KMC answers that of course they use computers at school and at home and she has to be very careful and try to supervise the information they get.
Judge – Do they have a global idea about what people say?
KMC mentions that her son, in October asked her why Mr Amaral said that they hid Madeleine. She answered that there were many stupid things in his book.
Judge – How did your son know about that? How was it possible if you were careful to prevent access to the book?
KMC thinks he heard it on the radio, in the school bus.
Judge – So what did you do?
KMC says that they spoke to David Trickey who advised them to let the twins make comments and just answer when they ask questions. She says that they had to contact the school in case a child would tell the twins about something that is in the book. She says that the book is noxious for adults and must be even more damaging for children.
It would be unusual to hear or read any mention of Amaral without his name, or anything with which he is involved, being preceded by "disgraced cop" or "sacked" or "replaced"..........
It would imply a lack of credibility , even to a nine year old, maybe?
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It would be unusual to hear or read any mention of Amaral without his name, or anything with which he is involved, being preceded by "disgraced cop" or "sacked" or "replaced"..........
It would imply a lack of credibility , even to a nine year old, maybe?
just as it would be unusual to see any mention of the mccanns without seeing the word neglect etc mentioned...
as it is amaral has been proved in court to be a disgraced cop...nothing has been proved in court re the mccanns
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Media interviews in the UK spouting Gonçalo Amaral's or rather the police investigation's theory? When has anyone been able to do an interview in any way critical of the McCanns in the UK?
Aside from some ill-conceived notions about the regularity of checks on the children, what is there critical to say about the McCanns?
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It would be unusual to hear or read any mention of Amaral without his name, or anything with which he is involved, being preceded by "disgraced cop" or "sacked" or "replaced"..........
It would imply a lack of credibility , even to a nine year old, maybe?
If it was a news report on a national station, it's unlikely that they'd use the tabloids' bucket of adjectives.
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just as it would be unusual to see any mention of the mccanns without seeing the word neglect etc mentioned...
as it is amaral has been proved in court to be a disgraced cop...nothing has been proved in court re the mccanns
It would be unusual to hear, see on t.v. or to read the words "neglectful parents" consistently placed in front of the names Kate and Gerry McCann as is "Disgraced Cop" in front of Amaral`s.
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I found that interesting as well. The reopening may not be based on new evidence, but on existing evidence in the files that may not have been adequately investigated at the time. And that depends on which files were being considered.
There doesn't seem to have been a comprehensive database at the time, let alone one which would integrate GNR and PJ reports / findings.
Mrs Fenn was burgled, yet whatever statement she'd made to the GNR isn't in the accessible files. Did the PJ check this further, or not? What about all the other burglaries? They would have been in GNR files... somewhere.
I'm not sure that there is one even now, although there may be progress in this direction.
The evidence has always been there if the PJ got it. Crecheman and Gaspar statements are two examples Amaral never saw. That sighting could have been ruled out in 2007. The mind boggles!
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This must be a first, the Algarve Resident front page a day early!
(http://i.imgur.com/uWOrWim.jpg)
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You are probably correct there, Eleanor.
Amaral had no right to use any files in his book. The book would have been written well before the release date. All the photos he used were from the files.
Case archived 21/7/2008
Book launched 24/7/2008
Files released to public 4/8/2008
First payment he received of €22.500 16/7/2008.
What would the payment on the 16/07/08 have been for?
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What would the payment on the 16/07/08 have been for?
An Advance, possibly. But he certainly never wrote that book in three days.
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What would the payment on the 16/07/08 have been for?
It was from Guerra e Paz, Editores, Anna. As Eleanor says possibly an advance.
An Advance, possibly. But he certainly never wrote that book in three days.
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An Advance, possibly. But he certainly never wrote that book in three days.
Would the publishers, have given an advance, on a book that they hadn't read?
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Would the publishers, have given an advance, on a book that they hadn't read?
No.
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Read further back.
Sorry..........still not following your point. I`d better give up........
( Perhaps the 15 points on my "licence" here should be for poor comprehension rather than for inappropriate name -calling of moderators )
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Would the publishers, have given an advance, on a book that they hadn't read?
Of course they wouldn't Anna. You would think they would have picked up on a few things written too.
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Would the publishers, have given an advance, on a book that they hadn't read?
Yes! that is what advance payment is for. They can be given a general idea about the contents.
If you look at many celebrities and musicians who get advance payments of songs not yet written.
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Would the publishers, have given an advance, on a book that they hadn't read?
They don't usually give advances on books they can read, they just publish and sell them.
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So Amaral wrote a book, The Truth of The Lie. And the publishers gave him that sort of Advance without knowing anything about what was in it.
I sincerely hope they really get clobbered. For stupidity if nothing else.
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So Amaral wrote a book, The Truth of The Lie. And the publishers gave him that sort of Advance without knowing anything about what was in it.
I sincerely hope they really get clobbered. For stupidity if nothing else.
All the Harry Potter books were not written, The author got an advance on the second book before it had even been 'thought about' and the publishers did not get to 'read' as it was being written!
They would have been impressed about the content being explained, the reason for the book being written and national/local interest in the subject matter.
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All the Harry Potter books were not written, The author got an advance on the second book before it had even been 'thought about' and the publishers did not get to 'read' as it was being written!
They would have been impressed about the content being explained, the reason for the book being written and national/local interest in the subject matter.
Whatever. They are still In Court being Sued.
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Something isn’t quite right here!
First payment he received of €22.500 16/7/2008. (as posted) Receipt no 0614753
This would make it the 3rd receipt in receipts of payment and not the first, so how can it be the first payment?
The first receipt was issued on 10/08/08 receipt no 0614751 so how could it be before,
the allegedly first payment on 16/07/08 receipt no 0614753
I think there is a mistake here and the date on receipt no 0614753 is incorrect
http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t3821-so-gonc-has-no-money
Please correct me, or explain why I may have got this wrong?
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http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk
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http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/ (http://www.movenoticias.com/2015/01/caso-maddie-tribunal-da-como-provado-danos-de-goncalo-amaral-aos-mccann/)
Maddie case: Court gives as proven Gonçalo Amaral of damage to McCann
The court gave this Wednesday, day 21, as proved that the book of former Inspector of Judicial Police (PJ) Gonçalo Amaral, entitled "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie", caused damage to the parents of Madeleine McCann, missing British child in 2007, in the Algarve.
In order, the magistrate also considered that the book reproduces excerpts appearing on the process in which Kate and Gerry McCann were made defendants, in September 2007, filed in July of the following year, even though the British couple has been charged.
These elements were given as proven at trial, which began in October 2013, and will be considered for the preparation of the decision that will be communicated to the parties soon, but that has no due date.
"Damages were proven directly originated by the book," said the agency "Lusa" source close to the process, confirming that Judge Melo and Emilia Castro found as a fact that the work "has from the process information", which is a violation of the secrecy of justice.
Because according to the defense of the parents of the missing child to May 3, 2007, the book was given as ready three days after the prosecutor of the Republic of Portimão, Magalhães Menezes, had written the order of termination of proceedings against the McCanns dated notification of July 29, 2008.
In preparing the book, in which the former coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ in Portimão defended the thesis that Madeleine's parents were involved in the disappearance and concealment of the corpse of the child, the lawyer of the British family, Isabel Duarte, maintained that Gonçalo Amaral used unauthorized and prohibited pleadings.
The same source also pointed out that the judgment of this process sessions at the Palace of Justice in Lisbon, allowed the judge to conclude that the information contained in the book are presented "some truncated, incomplete or other missing him."
This process creeps in court for over five years, with successive postponements of trial sessions and an attempted extrajudicial settlement between the parties, which was never realized.
In 2010, in the judgment of the book sales ban and the video with the same title, produced after documentary broadcast on TVI, the court decided to keep out of the market the two products that had been injunction target of temporary withdrawal.
In October 2010, the Lisbon Court of Relationship annulled the sale prohibition sentence of the book and the video and the British couple appealed to the Supreme Court, which rejected examine the use, in March 2011.
Madeleine McCann disappeared when he was four years in the tourist village of Aldeia da Luz, near Portimao, where the family was on vacation.
Kate and Gerry McCann have always maintained the position that Maddie was abducted. The case was recently reopened by prosecutors
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Let's boil it down to facts davel. Did the judge say that Amaral had broken the secrecy laws ? If so you will be able to give me a direct quote.
This is what the judge said ( thank you to Astro for the translation )
27. Are the facts that are reported by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book and in the aforementioned interviews, like he himself writes and said, facts that were established during the inquiry?
28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
Notice nowhere does she mention breaking judicial secrecy.
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Let's boil it down to facts davel. Did the judge say that Amaral had broken the secrecy laws ? If so you will be able to give me a direct quote.
This is what the judge said ( thank you to Astro for the translation )
27. Are the facts that are reported by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book and in the aforementioned interviews, like he himself writes and said, facts that were established during the inquiry?
28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
Notice nowhere does she mention breaking judicial secrecy.
Neither here, nor there, but you missed out this on one of the points that you quoted:
28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
The judge does note that some of the facts in the book are not complete, and some facts that are in the book are not in the case files, including Jane Tanner's "informal" recognition of Robert Murat.
Aside from that, Astro appears to have concentrated on translating the points proven or not proven. This isn't the totality of what was said in court, presumably, as otherwise where did Anne Guedes get her account from?
It's quite possible that the supposed breach of judicial secrecy wasn't mentioned again at that session, or if it was, Anne Guedes didn't hear it. If it is a point to be possibly considered by a criminal prosecution, it wouldn't actually be relevant in a civil trial... unless I have missed something.
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Neither here, nor there, but you missed out this on one of the points that you quoted:
28. Does the documentary only contain facts that are also in the inquiry files?
(Both articles) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
The judge does note that some of the facts in the book are not complete, and some facts that are in the book are not in the case files, including Jane Tanner's "informal" recognition of Robert Murat.
Aside from that, Astro appears to have concentrated on translating the points proven or not proven. This isn't the totality of what was said in court, presumably, as otherwise where did Anne Guedes get her account from?
It's quite possible that the supposed breach of judicial secrecy wasn't mentioned again at that session, or if it was, Anne Guedes didn't hear it. If it is a point to be possibly considered by a criminal prosecution, it wouldn't actually be relevant in a civil trial... unless I have missed something.
I don't belueve the point was relevant to the discussion.
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Carana Anne Guedes has asked me to tell you that she reported no matéria de prova because none were publicly divulged.
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Carana Anne Guedes has asked me to tell you that she reported no matéria de prova because none was publicly divulged.
Ah, thanks for passing on the clarification.
So the points weren't read aloud? Anne mentioned that the clerk didn't give her a copy to read, so Astro managed to get a copy from a different source, presumably one of the lawyers or Amaral?
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Ah, thanks for passing on the clarification.
So the points weren't read aloud? Anne mentioned that the clerk didn't give her a copy to read, so Astro managed to get a copy from a different source, presumably one of the lawyers or Amaral?
that's what it looked like.....so it's all unnoficial
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Ah, thanks for passing on the clarification.
So the points weren't read aloud? Anne mentioned that the clerk didn't give her a copy to read, so Astro managed to get a copy from a different source, presumably one of the lawyers or Amaral?
Now that does surprise me Carana, not.
Shouldn't be long before we all know the outcome.
I can see where the 30 days probably came in now, on the list. Apparently that is the time.
"The final decision should be issued in writing within 30 days from the end of the trial. Counsel will be notified through the judicial online platform (Citius)".
If that is correct the decision should be issued before the 20th February.
Seems the poll at the start to this thread is void too. Sorry it has been changed.
Portuguese law does not allow punitive damages in the same way as is possible under US law.
Secrecy Law
Article 195 of the Portuguese Criminal Code states that the violation of secrecy by a person obliged to respect it (which includes lawyers via Article 87 of the Portuguese Bar Association Rules) is a crime punishable with imprisonment up to one year, or a financial penalty.
http://m.chambersandpartners.com/guide/practice-guides/location/241/6617/1422-200 (http://m.chambersandpartners.com/guide/practice-guides/location/241/6617/1422-200)
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Now that does surprise me Carana, not.
Shouldn't be long before we all know the outcome.
I can see where the 30 days probably came in now, on the list. Apparently that is the time.
"The final decision should be issued in writing within 30 days from the end of the trial. Counsel will be notified through the judicial online platform (Citius)".
If that is correct the decision should be issued before the 20th February.
Seems the poll at the start to this thread is void too.
Portuguese law does not allow punitive damages in the same way as is possible under US law.
Secrecy Law
Article 195 of the Portuguese Criminal Code states that the violation of secrecy by a person obliged to respect it (which includes lawyers via Article 87 of the Portuguese Bar Association Rules) is a crime punishable with imprisonment up to one year, or a financial penalty.
http://m.chambersandpartners.com/guide/practice-guides/location/241/6617/1422-200 (http://m.chambersandpartners.com/guide/practice-guides/location/241/6617/1422-200)
Hmm.
On your first point, I did try to point out that exemplary (punitive) damages don't appear to exist in PT law...
On the second (re Article 195), no idea. For the moment, I don't think that it's an issue. It was a hearing open to the public, and it wasn't a violation of lawyer / client confidentiality.
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Hmm.
On your first point, I did try to point out that exemplary (punitive) damages don't appear to exist in PT law...
On the second (re Article 195), no idea. For the moment, I don't think that it's an issue. It was a hearing open to the public, and it wasn't a violation of lawyer / client confidentiality.
I think you have read it wrong. By a person obliged to respect it. Which includes lawyers
I also amended the poll, as it has been changed.
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I think you have read it wrong. By a person obliged to respect it. Which includes lawyers
I also amended the poll, as it has been changed.
But what is "it"? Judicial secrecy?
I really have no idea as to whether the points were not read out due to judicial secrecy or whether the document was simply given to lawyers to read to raise any relevant points verbally for reasons of expediency.
A clerk may not have known whether he / she was authorised to hand out a copy of the document out or not and decided to be cautious.
I'll sit on my fence on this one. ;)
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Hmm.
On your first point, I did try to point out that exemplary (punitive) damages don't appear to exist in PT law...
On the second (re Article 195), no idea. For the moment, I don't think that it's an issue. It was a hearing open to the public, and it wasn't a violation of lawyer / client confidentiality.
And besides I think it's common knowledge that Lusa got their ( incorrect ) information straight from Isabel Duarte.
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And besides I think it's common knowledge that Lusa got their ( incorrect ) information straight from Isabel Duarte.
According to whom?
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Ah, thanks for passing on the clarification.
So the points weren't read aloud? Anne mentioned that the clerk didn't give her a copy to read, so Astro managed to get a copy from a different source, presumably one of the lawyers or Amaral?
It matters little where it came from, what is important is the content. Anne was honest enough to admit that she was refused a copy by the clerk, many wouldn't have divulged that ditty.
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And besides I think it's common knowledge that Lusa got their ( incorrect ) information straight from Isabel Duarte.
first it's not common knowledge and secondly who says it's incorrect....both the amaral version and the Lusa version sound the same but with a different spin.
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It matters little where it came from, what is important is the content. Anne was honest enough to admit that she was refused a copy by the clerk, many wouldn't have divulged that ditty.
I don't see your point as I don't see where I've said anything to the contrary.
The clarification from Anne, via Faithlilly, was that the document wasn't read out in court. And apparently no one from the media was present.
If the document wasn't under judicial secrecy (and I don't see why it would be), then the media could presumably request a copy in order to report on it.
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first it's not common knowledge and secondly who says it's incorrect....both the amaral version and the Lusa version sound the same but with a different spin.
I don't suppose Anne, will tell where she got her copy from &%&£(+
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I don't suppose Anne, will tell where she got her copy from &%&£(+
We'll all know soon enough what the judge's rulling is.
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I don't suppose Anne, will tell where she got her copy from &%&£(+
In this instance, I don't see what Anne has to do with this. She reported on what was allegedly said in court - which apparently didn't include the document of proven / unproven facts.
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In this instance, I don't see what Anne has to do with this. She reported on what was allegedly said in court - which apparently didn't include the document of proven / unproven facts.
So those came from elsewhere. It's hardly rocket science Carana.
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So those came from elsewhere. It's hardly rocket science Carana.
I never said that that document did come from Anne and therefore I don't see why I'm in the cross-fire over it. LOL
The media (and Astro) somehow got hold of copies.
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I never said that that document did come from Anne and therefore I don't see why I'm in the cross-fire over it. LOL
The media (and Astro) somehow got hold of copies.
It would seem that way.
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It would seem that way.
If as is suggested, it is true documents were handed only to advogados then that narrows it down a bit.
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If as is suggested, it is true documents were handed only to advogados then that narrows it down a bit.
Indeed.
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If as is suggested, it is true documents were handed only to advogados then that narrows it down a bit.
not really..plenty of court staff would have had access to the documants
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not really..plenty of court staff would have had access to the documants
Gosh what are you suggesting?
I was referring to whom the documents were given officially as it were outside of court officials.
Oh sh*t I forgot this is Portugal we are talking about; that member state of the EU that has a lawless hinterland and a population that is entirely bent. Gimme strength.
As you were; the only ones who were not court officials ..........................
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If Mr Amaral is content that his financial future will be secured when the judge reaches her decision ... why does the appeal to finance him through public conscription continue?
There have been various financial episodes with payment of fees since 2009, I believe.
If one presumes that his various lawyers were paid when he and they parted company ... if one had access to an audited account it could be determined exactly how much remains in his fund for legal expenses ... and be able to make an informed assessment of how the public subscriptions were being used and if continuation was required.
Whatever ... it seems that if and when Mr Amaral is allowed access to his own finances... he intends to hang onto them tenaciously.
On the other hand ... is the renewed appeal an indication he as certain of success as he states?
**snip
A period for legal allegations ensues, after which we will await the verdict, which I envision will translate into my longed for acquittal and the consequent lifting of the attachments that have caused me such extensive financial difficulties over the past five years. This means that it has been only due to your help that I have been able to financially sustain the ongoing lawsuit,
http://pjga.blogspot.pt/
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If Mr Amaral is content that his financial future will be secured when the judge reaches her decision ... why does the appeal to finance him through public conscription continue?
There have been various financial episodes with payment of fees since 2009, I believe.
If one presumes that his various lawyers were paid when he and they parted company ... if one had access to an audited account it could be determined exactly how much remains in his fund for legal expenses ... and be able to make an informed assessment of how the public subscriptions were being used and if continuation was required.
Whatever ... it seems that if and when Mr Amaral is allowed access to his own finances... he intends to hang onto them tenaciously.
On the other hand ... is the renewed appeal an indication he as certain of success as he states?
**snip
A period for legal allegations ensues, after which we will await the verdict, which I envision will translate into my longed for acquittal and the consequent lifting of the attachments that have caused me such extensive financial difficulties over the past five years. This means that it has been only due to your help that I have been able to financially sustain the ongoing lawsuit,
http://pjga.blogspot.pt/ (http://pjga.blogspot.pt/)
I wonder if the judge took note of him lying about his finances, to get legal aid.
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I wonder if the judge took note of him lying about his finances, to get legal aid.
If that was the case, one would hope that it was noted, but who knows, what will be taken notice of, when the judge is only ruling on the allegations of the McCann family.
Different country, different rules and different ideas of what is right and what is wrong.
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If that was the case, one would hope that it was noted, but who knows, what will be taken notice of, when the judge is only ruling on the allegations of the McCann family.
Different country, different rules and different ideas of what is right and what is wrong.
I don't think in any country how the funding for a civil case was sought would have any bearing on the case itself Anna.
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If that was the case, one would hope that it was noted, but who knows, what will be taken notice of, when the judge is only ruling on the allegations of the McCann family.
Different country, different rules and different ideas of what is right and what is wrong.
It was the case Anna.
Amaral seeks legal aid support and states he has no assets Jornal de Notícias
by Alexandra Serôdio
01 December 2009 - 00h30m
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation
Gonçalo Amaral asked for the help of the State in order to be able to defend himself against the case brought by the McCanns.
Citing economic insufficiency to pay the court costs, the former PJ coordinator saw the Civil Court of Lisbon preventively seize the earnings made from the sale of the book and of the documentary through a sole-proprietorship company in his name, as a way to ensure that there will be money to pay any compensation, whose pertinence can only be examined through the main action.
In the aid application document, dated 24 September, Amaral declared an annual net income of 39 thousand Euros, with a household of four people: himself, his wife and two little girls, of 11 and five-years-old. He also states that he does not own any real estate property.
According to a document from the Land Registry Office of Olhão, dated 21 September, to which the JN had access, Amaral, 'owns' a single-family house consisting of two floors, two terraces and a swimming pool, which is valued at more than 200 thousand euros.
The sole-proprietorship company in Amaral's name, created for the marketing of the book, has a car registered, of the Jaguar brand. The registration of that property was made in May, this year.
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It was the case Anna.
Amaral seeks legal aid support and states he has no assets Jornal de Notícias
by Alexandra Serôdio
01 December 2009 - 00h30m
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation
Gonçalo Amaral asked for the help of the State in order to be able to defend himself against the case brought by the McCanns.
Citing economic insufficiency to pay the court costs, the former PJ coordinator saw the Civil Court of Lisbon preventively seize the earnings made from the sale of the book and of the documentary through a sole-proprietorship company in his name, as a way to ensure that there will be money to pay any compensation, whose pertinence can only be examined through the main action.
In the aid application document, dated 24 September, Amaral declared an annual net income of 39 thousand Euros, with a household of four people: himself, his wife and two little girls, of 11 and five-years-old. He also states that he does not own any real estate property.
According to a document from the Land Registry Office of Olhão, dated 21 September, to which the JN had access, Amaral, 'owns' a single-family house consisting of two floors, two terraces and a swimming pool, which is valued at more than 200 thousand euros.
The sole-proprietorship company in Amaral's name, created for the marketing of the book, has a car registered, of the Jaguar brand. The registration of that property was made in May, this year.
Thank you DCI. That makes it much clearer. Did he get this Legal aid?
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I don't think in any country how the funding for a civil case was sought would have any bearing on the case itself Anna.
It would have no bearing on this case, where the money came from, Faith, but if he claimed legal aid when he had no entitlement, would it not be fraudulent and therefore another case?
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Thank you DCI. That makes it much clearer. Did he get this Legal aid?
In a word Anna, NO!
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It would have no bearing on this case, where the money came from, Faith, but if he claimed legal aid when he had no entitlement, would it not be fraudulent and therefore another case?
It would indeed Anna but as the newspapaer article was over four years ago and thus far Amaral has not faced any fraud charges do you think perhaps it's therefore possible that he didn't actually break the law ?
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It would indeed Anna but as the newspapaer article was over four years ago and thus far Amaral has not faced any fraud charges do you think perhaps it's therefore possible that he didn't actually break the law ?
It appear that, it is a possibility indeed, Faith, that he did not break any portuguese laws and since he never received the Legal aid that he requested, it could not have been used for legal costs. But why did he give false information?
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It appear that, it is a possibility indeed, Faith, that he did not break any portuguese laws and since he never received the Legal aid that he requested, it could not have been used for legal costs. But why did he give false information?
I have absolutely no idea Anna. Is it relevant ?
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I have absolutely no idea Anna. Is it relevant ?
Not to this thread really, Faith, but for my understanding of this man in general and his motives, Yes.
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Not to this thread really, Faith, but for my understanding of this man in general and his motives, Yes.
His motives Anna ? Care to expand ?
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His motives Anna ? Care to expand ?
No point, Faith as I have already asked ....Why did he falsify his application for legal aid?. Which you replied ..No idea. is it relevant? to which I replied. Yes as it would help me understand his motive.
Anyway its not really worth discussion. I just couldn't understand, why he did it.
The above is not word perfect.
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His motives Anna ? Care to expand ?
he's a convicted criminal...and wasn't he found guilty of fraud against his brother
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he's a convicted criminal...and wasn't he found guilty of fraud against his brother
Yes he was Davel, along with both wives.
http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t3832-gonc-s-debts-and-brothers-court-case
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I guess the guy is entitled to due process in the present case regardless of what he what he may or may not have done outside the present case and having a crack for legal aid is worth the effort I guess even if one does misspeak.
I know it must stick in the throats of some of you but that's life folks.
Even the Kray Twins were defended on legal aid and Ian Brady had an action funded to the tune of 250 grand out Legal Aid Taxation. Now those guys really were villains not like small beer Dr Amaral.
Just out of curiosity what point are you trying to make?
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I guess the guy is entitled to due process in the present case regardless of what he what he may or may not have done outside the present case and having a crack for legal aid is worth the effort I guess even if one does misspeak.
I know it must stick in the throats of some of you but that's life folks.
Even the Kray Twins were defended on legal aid and Ian Brady had an action funded to the tune of 250 grand out Legal Aid Taxation. Now those guys really were villains not like small beer Dr Amaral.
Just out of curiosity what point are you trying to make?
Well, hey! If the McCanns character can be assessed and found wanting because the Fund accounts got filed late then why not permit the same treatment of ol' Uncle Ammy, eh? Same sort of argument, innit.
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It would have no bearing on this case, where the money came from, Faith, but if he claimed legal aid when he had no entitlement, would it not be fraudulent and therefore another case?
Just to remind you that the McCanns and Isabel Duarte filed a complaint against Gonçalo Amaral claiming that his request for legal aid was fraudulent. Needless to say, it was thrown out by the judge. BTW, asking for legal aid isn't fraudulent in itself, especially if your assets are frozen. Millionaires sometimes ask for legal aid.
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Well, hey! If the McCanns character can be assessed and found wanting because the Fund accounts got filed late then why not permit the same treatment of ol' Uncle Ammy, eh? Same sort of argument, innit.
I don't see the point of your remark in the light of my post. Perhaps you will be kind enough to elucidate?
It seems on the face of it to be a feeble attempt at a body swerve Alf.
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I don't see the point of your remark in the light of my post. Perhaps you will be kind enough to elucidate?
It seems on the face of it to be a feeble attempt at a body swerve Alf.
Body swerve what, exactly? I've only just entered this conversation. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to work out what my point was, or maybe I overestimated you?
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Body swerve what, exactly? I've only just entered this conversation. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to work out what my point was, or maybe I overestimated you?
It would seem you have done all of that and more, so:
From the top very, very slowly in words of not more than two syllables lay it all out for me. Preferably in sentences containing a finite verb otherwise I will have assumptions and I am not smart enough for that.
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It would seem you have done all of that and more, so:
From the top very, very slowly in words of not more than two syllables lay it all out for me. Preferably in sentences containing a finite verb otherwise I will have assumptions and I am not smart enough for that.
it's simply not worth the effort Alice, you'll have to remain ignorant, soz la.
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Just to remind you that the McCanns and Isabel Duarte filed a complaint against Gonçalo Amaral claiming that his request for legal aid was fraudulent. Needless to say, it was thrown out by the judge. BTW, asking for legal aid isn't fraudulent in itself, especially if your assets are frozen. Millionaires sometimes ask for legal aid.
Thank you that bit of information, Montclair. I was not aware of that incident.
False declarations to obtain Legal aid, are against the law though, surely?
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Any application for Legal Aid involves filling in a form. It is an offence to tell lies on that form. The Form probably states this, although i am not absolutely sure about that.
The application can only be refused after the form has been submitted.
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Thank you that bit of information, Montclair. I was not aware of that incident.
False declarations to obtain Legal aid, are against the law though, surely?
It was Isabel Duarte that made the complaint, to the police, and rightly so.
Day 3: Lisbon, Portugal, at the McCanns’ v Amaral libel trial”
3:01: Ms Duarte also said she has made an official complaint to the police about Mr Amaral, alleging that he has abused the legal aid system.
Amaral claimed he had no assets, when he had a house, in his name. Seems that house was not part of the frozen assets. I believe this house was repossessed at a later date
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It was Isabel Duarte that made the complaint, to the police, and rightly so.
Day 3: Lisbon, Portugal, at the McCanns’ v Amaral libel trial”
3:01: Ms Duarte also said she has made an official complaint to the police about Mr Amaral, alleging that he has abused the legal aid system.
Amaral claimed he had no assets, when he had a house, in his name. Seems that house was not part of the frozen assets. I believe this house was repossessed at a later date
Thank you DCI and Eleanor. .....So no prosecution? above the law maybe?
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Just to remind you that the McCanns and Isabel Duarte filed a complaint against Gonçalo Amaral claiming that his request for legal aid was fraudulent. Needless to say, it was thrown out by the judge. BTW, asking for legal aid isn't fraudulent in itself, especially if your assets are frozen. Millionaires sometimes ask for legal aid.
Of course asking for legal aid is not fraudlent in itself. Making a false declaraion in order to obtain legal aid, however, would be.
Remind me - did Amaral get legal aid?
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Of course asking for legal aid is not fraudlent in itself. Making a false declaraion in order to obtain legal aid, however, would be.
Remind me - did Amaral get legal aid?
No and neither was he prosecuted for making a false declaration.
You would have thought Duarte would have better ways to spend her time than trying to have Amaral charged with a criminal offence. It's as if her clients aren't sure of a win so they are throwing everything at him in the vain hope something, anything will stick
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Why was his application for legal aid turned down, anyone know?
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Isabel Duarte is an Officer of The Law. She has a duty to report a crime.
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No and neither was he prosecuted for making a false declaration.
You would have thought Duarte would have better ways to spend her time than trying to have Amaral charged with a criminal offence. It's as if her clients aren't sure of a win so they are throwing everything at him in the vain hope something, anything will stick
It seems something has stuck and we will have confirmation soon hopefully
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Isabel Duarte is an Officer of The Law. She has a duty to report a crime.
Seems she wasted her time then.
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Did Duarte believe it to be fraudulent because of the following admission from Sofia?
“I will not get divorced. That would be a fraud. Our family lives in full communion [unity].”
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/mccann-querem-casa-de-amaral.html
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Did Duarte believe it to be fraudulent because of the following admission from Sofia?
“I will not get divorced. That would be a fraud. Our family lives in full communion [unity].”
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/mccann-querem-casa-de-amaral.html
So Why did she change her mind?
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No and neither was he prosecuted for making a false declaration.
You would have thought Duarte would have better ways to spend her time than trying to have Amaral charged with a criminal offence. It's as if her clients aren't sure of a win so they are throwing everything at him in the vain hope something, anything will stick
Given the rather overloaded court system in Portugal, the reality is, it is unlikey he would face prosecution. I would not read too much into it.
AFAIK he didnt get his legal aid though.
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Why was his application for legal aid turned down, anyone know?
Because he had assets of €39,000 per year and a house, he denied he owned.
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So Why did she change her mind?
Maybe they divorced for other reasons, nothing at all to do with the money... 8)-)))
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Maybe they divorced for other reasons, nothing at all to do with the money... 8)-)))
Ya think? Lol.
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Ya think? Lol.
Another one who seems to think the world owes them a living, connected to this case. Expecting the state to fund their legal adventures.
If Amaral is running out of money, why not get a job?
Bennett was another one denied legal aid because he had too much money.
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Because he had assets of €39,000 per year and a house, he denied he owned.
How do you know that he denied owning a house? He could hardly use his house to pay for the legal costs. Furthermore, when he applied for legal aid, most of his assets had been frozen.
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Another one who seems to think the world owes them a living, connected to this case. Expecting the state to fund their legal adventures.
If Amaral is running out of money, why not get a job?
Bennett was another one denied legal aid because he had too much money.
How do you know that he doesn't have a job? Part of his pension has been taken from since 2009 and any other income.
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How do you know that he denied owning a house? He could hardly use his house to pay for the legal costs. Furthermore, when he applied for legal aid, most of his assets had been frozen.
Note the date 2009
Amaral seeks legal aid support and states he has no assets Jornal de Notícias
by Alexandra Serôdio
01 December 2009 - 00h30m
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation
Gonçalo Amaral asked for the help of the State in order to be able to defend himself against the case brought by the McCanns.
Citing economic insufficiency to pay the court costs, the former PJ coordinator saw the Civil Court of Lisbon preventively seize the earnings made from the sale of the book and of the documentary through a sole-proprietorship company in his name, as a way to ensure that there will be money to pay any compensation, whose pertinence can only be examined through the main action.
In the aid application document, dated 24 September, Amaral declared an annual net income of 39 thousand Euros, with a household of four people: himself, his wife and two little girls, of 11 and five-years-old. He also states that he does not own any real estate property.
According to a document from the Land Registry Office of Olhão, dated 21 September, to which the JN had access, Amaral, 'owns' a single-family house consisting of two floors, two terraces and a swimming pool, which is valued at more than 200 thousand euros.
The sole-proprietorship company in Amaral's name, created for the marketing of the book, has a car registered, of the Jaguar brand. The registration of that property was made in May, this year.
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Note the date 2009
Amaral seeks legal aid support and states he has no assets Jornal de Notícias
by Alexandra Serôdio
01 December 2009 - 00h30m
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation
Gonçalo Amaral asked for the help of the State in order to be able to defend himself against the case brought by the McCanns.
Citing economic insufficiency to pay the court costs, the former PJ coordinator saw the Civil Court of Lisbon preventively seize the earnings made from the sale of the book and of the documentary through a sole-proprietorship company in his name, as a way to ensure that there will be money to pay any compensation, whose pertinence can only be examined through the main action.
In the aid application document, dated 24 September, Amaral declared an annual net income of 39 thousand Euros, with a household of four people: himself, his wife and two little girls, of 11 and five-years-old. He also states that he does not own any real estate property.
According to a document from the Land Registry Office of Olhão, dated 21 September, to which the JN had access, Amaral, 'owns' a single-family house consisting of two floors, two terraces and a swimming pool, which is valued at more than 200 thousand euros.
The sole-proprietorship company in Amaral's name, created for the marketing of the book, has a car registered, of the Jaguar brand. The registration of that property was made in May, this year.
The fixation with Amaral by members of the McCann clan is quite disturbing.
Why not an examination of all property and goods owned by the McCann's since the the publishing of the book onwards ?
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How do you know that he doesn't have a job? Part of his pension has been taken from since 2009 and any other income.
He was in dept up to his eyeballs, well before 2009. Check out the dates tax debts and seizures.
Portuguese newspaper 24horas today: The judge who ordered the seizure of the house and jaguar of former PJ inspector, rated a trail of debts, in a action of anticipation of the eventual sentence of compensation to Madeleine´s parents. The assets of Gonçalo Amaral was already precarious before the decision of the Civil Court of Lisbon, who last October ordered the arrest of the proceeds frfom the rights of copyright related with the sales of the book "Maddie - the truth of lie". Until May 19, 2008, hung over Gonçalo Amaral, two measures of attachment, an attachment of seize and tax / debts, which together amounted to 468, 4 thousand euros. According with a certificate signed by the 3rd Land Registry of Lisbon, with the date of 21st September of 2009, which 24horas had access - the former PJ inspector was noticed in those three actions by A.S. Amaral, by the National Treasury and also from the Bank of Espírito Santo. The first of those three actions, a seizure of the order of 129, 6 thousand euros, was brought at February 9th of 2005, referring to a "fact" verified in December 16th previous year. A.S. Amaral, and the applicant of the action was at the time, resident in na 3rd floor of Quinta da Mata, in Corroios (Seixal). 24horas could not locate him. At September 14th of 2006, new "nightmare to Gonçalo Amaral with the National Treasury to move forward with seize action of 16.996 euros. The day of May 19th of 2008 was a date of an even worst news. An action - another one - the seize by the Bank Espírito Santo (which belongs to BIC) against Gonçalo Amaral reaches the sum of 294.405 euros, plus with other 14,7 thousand as payment of expenses of the executive process, judged and ordered by a judge of Olhão´s Court. The Civil Court of Lisbon understood, once evaluated the finantial situation of Gonçalo Amaral, that if he becomes to be condemned as a result of the application of indemnization requested by Madeleine´s parents, does not offer guarantees of match it´s payment. It´s from that assessment that comes the decision of... arrest the house, the jaguar, the share of Amaral in the company Gonçalo Amaral Unipessoal Lda, and a third part of his salary as manager of the firm.
House arrested:
Amaral and his wife, Alexandra, had bought a house with 240 square metres on a land with a total area of 1145 square metres at Urbanização Cerro Azul, in Quelfes, Olhão - with 2 floors, 2 terraces, a pool and a garage - at October 25 of 2002. The house was registered only in Alexandra´s name, but, the registration communion marriage of acquired in which the married, dictated their arrest due to actions taxes against her husband. The couple payed for the house 204, 3 thousand euros, form which they move forward with na voluntary morgage, as a loan title, hired in that same day and near BIC, with the total value of 292,9 thousand euros. At october 31st of 2003, the demand another loan at the same bank, with the top value of 64, 5 mil euros.
Retirement pension also under "pillage":
That same house would be the target of a seize of 129,9 thousand euros demanded by A.S. Amaral in 2005 and would work with the same purpose on the next seize, the one at 2006, as a guarantee of payment of 16.996 euros to the National Treasury. But, there is more. Retired since June 2008, Gonçalo Amaral receives a pension by early retirement - after 26 years of service - of 2039 euros, but the Retirement Administration Office forces him to discount a sixth part of that value every month, until the value of that debt reaches the 10.505 euros. The former inspector payed five of those benefits until the beginning of October. He has yet 26 to pay. And yet... a certificate of debts of October 16th of 2009 at Finantial Service from Olhão which proves that Amaral owes to the Tax payer office a total of 13.426.7 euros. The debts (of 2006, 2007, 2009) has origin in fines, IRS, stamp duty and transfer tax. In a statement released in October 21, Amaral told that he feared to "be prevented of defending his reasons in court" due to the "higher costs of money" by the judicial action requested by the couple McCann. 24horas tried to get in touch with Amaral and his wife to clarify this situation. None of them answered the phone. Also none of them answered the written messages sent by 24horas.
80 thousand for tv interview:
At the end of april 2009, a correspondent of Five News requested an interview to Amaral. According to information gathered by 24horas, the British journalist received Amaral´s answer, but the interview, if granted, would have to be payed. Amaral issued that he would charge 80 thousand euros, also the same with other broadcasts including Portuguese tv channel TVI.
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He was in dept up to his eyeballs, well before 2009. Check out the dates tax debts and seizures.
Portuguese newspaper 24horas today: The judge who ordered the seizure of the house and jaguar of former PJ inspector, rated a trail of debts, in a action of anticipation of the eventual sentence of compensation to Madeleine´s parents. The assets of Gonçalo Amaral was already precarious before the decision of the Civil Court of Lisbon, who last October ordered the arrest of the proceeds frfom the rights of copyright related with the sales of the book "Maddie - the truth of lie". Until May 19, 2008, hung over Gonçalo Amaral, two measures of attachment, an attachment of seize and tax / debts, which together amounted to 468, 4 thousand euros. According with a certificate signed by the 3rd Land Registry of Lisbon, with the date of 21st September of 2009, which 24horas had access - the former PJ inspector was noticed in those three actions by A.S. Amaral, by the National Treasury and also from the Bank of Espírito Santo. The first of those three actions, a seizure of the order of 129, 6 thousand euros, was brought at February 9th of 2005, referring to a "fact" verified in December 16th previous year. A.S. Amaral, and the applicant of the action was at the time, resident in na 3rd floor of Quinta da Mata, in Corroios (Seixal). 24horas could not locate him. At September 14th of 2006, new "nightmare to Gonçalo Amaral with the National Treasury to move forward with seize action of 16.996 euros. The day of May 19th of 2008 was a date of an even worst news. An action - another one - the seize by the Bank Espírito Santo (which belongs to BIC) against Gonçalo Amaral reaches the sum of 294.405 euros, plus with other 14,7 thousand as payment of expenses of the executive process, judged and ordered by a judge of Olhão´s Court. The Civil Court of Lisbon understood, once evaluated the finantial situation of Gonçalo Amaral, that if he becomes to be condemned as a result of the application of indemnization requested by Madeleine´s parents, does not offer guarantees of match it´s payment. It´s from that assessment that comes the decision of... arrest the house, the jaguar, the share of Amaral in the company Gonçalo Amaral Unipessoal Lda, and a third part of his salary as manager of the firm.
House arrested:
Amaral and his wife, Alexandra, had bought a house with 240 square metres on a land with a total area of 1145 square metres at Urbanização Cerro Azul, in Quelfes, Olhão - with 2 floors, 2 terraces, a pool and a garage - at October 25 of 2002. The house was registered only in Alexandra´s name, but, the registration communion marriage of acquired in which the married, dictated their arrest due to actions taxes against her husband. The couple payed for the house 204, 3 thousand euros, form which they move forward with na voluntary morgage, as a loan title, hired in that same day and near BIC, with the total value of 292,9 thousand euros. At october 31st of 2003, the demand another loan at the same bank, with the top value of 64, 5 mil euros.
Retirement pension also under "pillage":
That same house would be the target of a seize of 129,9 thousand euros demanded by A.S. Amaral in 2005 and would work with the same purpose on the next seize, the one at 2006, as a guarantee of payment of 16.996 euros to the National Treasury. But, there is more. Retired since June 2008, Gonçalo Amaral receives a pension by early retirement - after 26 years of service - of 2039 euros, but the Retirement Administration Office forces him to discount a sixth part of that value every month, until the value of that debt reaches the 10.505 euros. The former inspector payed five of those benefits until the beginning of October. He has yet 26 to pay. And yet... a certificate of debts of October 16th of 2009 at Finantial Service from Olhão which proves that Amaral owes to the Tax payer office a total of 13.426.7 euros. The debts (of 2006, 2007, 2009) has origin in fines, IRS, stamp duty and transfer tax. In a statement released in October 21, Amaral told that he feared to "be prevented of defending his reasons in court" due to the "higher costs of money" by the judicial action requested by the couple McCann. 24horas tried to get in touch with Amaral and his wife to clarify this situation. None of them answered the phone. Also none of them answered the written messages sent by 24horas.
80 thousand for tv interview:
At the end of april 2009, a correspondent of Five News requested an interview to Amaral. According to information gathered by 24horas, the British journalist received Amaral´s answer, but the interview, if granted, would have to be payed. Amaral issued that he would charge 80 thousand euros, also the same with other broadcasts including Portuguese tv channel TVI.
Total obsession.
Now give a financial breakdown of the McCann's expenditures.
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Total obsession.
Now give a financial breakdown of the McCann's expenditures.
Don't be silly, it's AMARALS DEBTS FROM 2003, not expenditures.
Why don't you do one instead of posting crap.
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Don't be silly, it's AMARALS DEBTS FROM 2003, not expenditures.
Why don't you do one instead of posting crap.
I'm not the one posting crap.
It's you and your fellows explain what his debts or expenditure have got the slightest to do with this case ?
As to financial problems, in case you forget the McCann's had their own.
They got bailed out by the fund.
All because of their own friggin stupidity in the first place.
Now, I'll let you do one.
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I don't understand the obsession with Dr Amaral, old sticks.
Am I missing something?
If he was that much of a tw*t, grossly incompetent etc [fill in with any uncomplimentary remark you can dream up] why go banging on about him?
Some me included might think either you are worried or totally paranoid. The idea you can vote is scary.
In the nicest possible way of course ?>)()<
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I'm not the one posting crap.
It's you and your fellows explain what his debts or expenditure have got the slightest to do with this case ?
As to financial problems, in case you forget the McCann's had their own.
They got bailed out by the fund.
All because of their own friggin stupidity in the first place.
Now, I'll let you do one.
Could you just post up a cite to the McCanns application for legal aid?
Or to state funding?
Thanks.
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I don't understand the obsession with Dr Amaral, old sticks.
Am I missing something?
If he was that much of a tw*t, grossly incompetent etc [fill in with any uncomplimentary remark you can dream up] why go banging on about him?
Some me included might think either you are worried or totally paranoid. The idea you can vote is scary.
In the nicest possible way of course ?>)()<
Some people have the silly idea that if he hadn't written the book nobody today would be doubting the McCanns.
It's revisionist history. %£&)**#
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I don't understand the obsession with Dr Amaral, old sticks.
Am I missing something?
If he was that much of a tw*t, grossly incompetent etc [fill in with any uncomplimentary remark you can dream up] why go banging on about him?
Some me included might think either you are worried or totally paranoid. The idea you can vote is scary.
In the nicest possible way of course ?>)()<
Do you understand the obsession with the McCanns, old stick?
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I don't understand the obsession with Dr Amaral, old sticks.
Am I missing something?
If he was that much of a tw*t, grossly incompetent etc [fill in with any uncomplimentary remark you can dream up] why go banging on about him?
Some me included might think either you are worried or totally paranoid. The idea you can vote is scary.
In the nicest possible way of course ?>)()<
the so called obsession with amaral pales into insignificance when you see the absolute pathological obsession with the mccanns....posters on here dissect every aspect of their lives...every word they say...every facial expression...repeating the same phrases for seven years...day after day ....50 tweets a day by Brenda, truly bizarre
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Some people have the silly idea that if he hadn't written the book nobody today would be doubting the McCanns.
It's revisionist history. %£&)**#
I think you've got that wrong, Lyall, unless you can come up with just one piece of misinformation that is not in the book or has been said by Mr Amaral in interviews etc which is not in the lexicon of the "doubters".
More propaganda than revisionist, perhaps.
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Just catching up and as ever the faithful has shown yet again they really don't do irony.
Sofia said she and Amaral would never divorce. Was it because of the money ?
The McCanns said they would never leave Portugal without Madeleine. Was it because they were guilty ?
Amaral applied for legal aid by allegedly falsifying certain details on the legal aid application form.
The McCanns pay for legal representation with money they have gained by misleading donators.
Seems to me there's not a lot of difference.
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I think you've got that wrong, Lyall, unless you can come up with just one piece of misinformation that is not in the book or has been said by Mr Amaral in interviews etc which is not in the lexicon of the "doubters".
More propaganda than revisionist, perhaps.
Not sure I understand what you're saying in this post, but there's not actually that much in the book.
There's very little in it that wasn't already known, apart from the history of the investigation and Portuguese-British police relations etc. Evidence-wise it was all already known, or mostly-known.
If he'd never written it the progression of case discussion etc. over the years wouldn't have been greatly different.
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Just catching up and as ever the faithful has shown yet again they really don't do irony.
Sofia said she and Amaral would never divorce. Was it because of the money ?
The McCanns said they would never leave Portugal without Madeleine. Was it because they were guilty ?
Amaral applied for legal aid by allegedly falsifying certain details on the legal aid application form.
The McCanns pay for legal representation with money they have gained by misleading donators.
Seems to me there's not a lot of difference.
Obsession klaxon!
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It's fair to say his stand doubtless inspired some people to continue discussing the case, and some of those may have long ago stopped otherwise. But not everyone was ever in that camp.
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It's fair to say his stand doubtless inspired some people to continue discussing the case, and some of those may have long ago stopped otherwise. But not everyone was ever in that camp.
If amaral had said the McCanns were not suspects the obsessed would simply have cried cover up
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Obsession klaxon!
How many posts have you posted in support of the McCanns now Davel ?
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How many posts have you posted in support of the McCanns now Davel ?
My posts are in support of the justice system as opposed to the lynchmob...that's noble ...my posts are in support of truth...not lies...that's noble....this evening we had Stephen trying to spread lies re Maddie leaving the apartment...that isn't noble
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If amaral had said the McCanns were not suspects the obsessed would simply have cried cover up
You're right, but that's because the evidence doesn't exist to say they aren't.
Or at least we haven't been shown it. I don't blame people for not believing Redwood because we were told all this in the papers in 2007: evidence exists; police know it; they're not suspects. All turned out to be false.
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You're right, but that's because the evidence doesn't exist to say they aren't.
Or at least we haven't been shown it. I don't blame people for not believing Redwood because we were told all this in the papers in 2007: evidence exists; police know it; they're not suspects. All turned out to be false.
As I have said I post in support of the justice system and you have just shown how you have no respect for justice...The Mccanns do not have to provide proof they are innocent..
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amaral has encouraged the myths but has not been the initial source...the judge will decide just how much influence he has had
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Discussion is legitimate...stating the McCanns are liars...stating that they murdered Maddie and dumped her body in a bin...is not legitimate
You're right, stating that as fact is not legitimate.
But if this were a different case, one in which you aren't so passionately committed, you wouldn't be so horrified by discussion of each and every possibility, even those nobody wants to think could ever be possible anywhere.
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You're right, stating that as fact is not legitimate.
But if this were a different case, one in which you aren't so passionately committed, you wouldn't be so horrified by discussion of each and every possibility, even those nobody wants to think could ever be possible anywhere.
I believe you live in Portugal and I'm not sure how the rule stands in Portugal about libel by inference.
But certainly in England, discussion that the McCanns might, somehow, be implicated in something nefarious to do with Madeleine's disappearance (however you couch it) would be libel.
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If amaral had said the McCanns were not suspects the obsessed would simply have cried cover up
So you are saying he had no effect on opinion?
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So you are saying he had no effect on opinion?
no...he had an effect but the anti lobby would have still existed
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As I have said I post in support of the justice system and you have just shown how you have no respect for justice...The Mccanns do not have to provide proof they are innocent..
To a police investigation they do. Furthermore, it depends on what they are supposed to be innocent of and that includes rubbish parenting whilst on holiday. So they just aren't as innocent as you would like us all to believe.
Whether they are innocent in relation to Maddie's disappearance is another issue altogether which is very adequately dealt with in the Portuguese Attorney General's Archiving Report. An archive which I hasten to add could have been reopened at any time should the parents and their reconstitution-shy pals decided to cooperate.
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no...he had an effect but the anti lobby would have still existed
Indeed, it did exist, from way before Amaral wrote his book.
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they do not have to supply proof of innocence to the police investigation.
Its called an alibi Davy. Interesting that as many members believe the case will be dismissed as those who believe token damages will be awarded.
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Its called an alibi Davy. Interesting that as many members believe the case will be dismissed as those who believe token damages will be awarded.
mccanns do not have to supply anything to the police...as for the survey...what does it matter what anyone on here thinks...the judge makes the decision
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http://pjga.blogspot.pt/2015/03/lisbon-trial-awaiting-verdict.html?m=1
13 Mar 2015
Lisbon Trial: Awaiting the Verdict
Many of you who have been following the trial will be aware of the fact that the deadline for all parties to deliver their legal arguments to the court ended on the 26th of February.
Legal arguments were delivered by several parties and now we await a verdict from the Judge.
Article 607 of the Portuguese Civil Process Code stipulates an indicative period of 30 days after the process is concluded by the Judge. While this is not a legal deadline but merely a recommendation, several jurists believe that this case will receive a relatively swift decision.
Judicial holidays over the Easter period (March 29-April 6, dates are inclusive) mean that no verdict will be issued during this interruption of the Courts' work.
We trust in Justice and serenely await the Judge's decision, in solidarity with Gonçalo Amaral.
For your ongoing support, we thank you very, very much.
astro at Friday, March 13, 2015