That was interesting Brietta, for I've just had a debate with a Karen Sisson who seems to be active on the FB and other forums
Here is a post under the name of Karen Sisson
"1 Karen Sisson says:
May 3, 2012 at 7:25 am
"This has made me gasp as I reported seeing a girl like Madeleine 3 days after it happened in 2007 with a family in Cabopino Campsite,nr Marbella they also had a dark blue people carrier. She too was with them but apart and distant,I reported it several times but don’t know if it was investigated thoroughly. It too was a very haunting image as she was not interacting with the family and looked very sad."
So from the contest of that Karen Sisson is the same lady who made the report in 2007.
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4894-another-costa-sighting
I have seen reports that the family involved were Swiss and were checked out. If so, the question I have about that is, was the sighting eliminated at the time ... or did it have to wait until Operation Grange started investigating?I don't know but the name of the booking was "Karsten Mayer" but "Karsten" appears to be a male gender name, so I'm a bit confused by that. I thought if they have false number plates they could have false identities too.
I don't know but the name of the booking was "Karsten Meyer" but "Karsten" appears to be a male gender name, so I'm a bit confused by that. I thought if they have false number plates they could have false identities too.
I have seen reports that the family involved were Swiss and were checked out. If so, the question I have about that is, was the sighting eliminated at the time ... or did it have to wait until Operation Grange started investigating?
As long as it was eliminated, it doesn't really matter who did it.
As long as it was eliminated, it doesn't really matter who did it.
I think you overlook the point that despite the authorities being informed no-one bothered to check it out until 2012.
I think you overlook the point that despite the authorities being informed no-one bothered to check it out until 2012.
As it proved to be of no value, nothing was lost by being delayed.
IYO. The original Germans were Swiss.
Is it only Madeleine McCann amongst the missing children of the world who in your opinion deserves to have credible leads ignored ... or is it your opinion that sightings of all missing children are to be ignored?
Whichever ... my opinion is that your response to a delay of years in checking out a nearby possible sighting three days after Madeleine disappeared epitomises the lack of diligence her case was afforded at the time.
What on earth do you mean by that post?
As long as it was eliminated, it doesn't really matter who did it.All I read was a half hearted attempt by some reporters bluffed off by a bloke who professed innocence. To me there was no proper conclusion.
All I read was a half hearted attempt by some reporters bluffed off by a bloke who professed innocence. To me there was no proper conclusion.
But it turned out to be worthless, as have all the other alleged sightings, so a delay in investigation affected the outcome not one jot.Did anyone see the blond haired daughter in 2012 or whenever the investigation was done? I didn't read that that was the case.
If you want to argue the case, why not concentrate on sightings that have never been followed up, ever ?
Or better still, wait until Madeleine has been found and show that she could have been found earlier if the police hadn't ignored the lead.
Do you mean it hasn't been investigated by OG. either?
Do you mean it hasn't been investigated by OG. either?How do we know what OG has done? If it isn't reported to the PJ the OG detectives won't have anything to go on either.
How do we know what OG has done? If it isn't reported to the PJ the OG detectives won't have anything to go on either.
In which case no charge of incompetence can be made against either force, can it?Karen Sissons says she reported the incident to the Spanish Police who weren't that interested [from memory], so did the Spanish Police send a report into the PJ? Or were the PJ so convinced they were being told "a badly told story" they had already determined the parents and Tapas 7 were involved and hence there was no point in following up leads like this? It is hard to tell, but if one of the sighting investigated by the PJ was related to this sighting surely someone would have noted it by now.
Karen Sissons says she reported the incident to the Spanish Police who weren't that interested [from memory], so did the Spanish Police send a report into the PJ? Or were the PJ so convinced they were being told "a badly told story" they had already determined the parents and Tapas 7 were involved and hence there was no point in following up leads like this? It is hard to tell, but if one of the sighting investigated by the PJ was related to this sighting surely someone would have noted it by now.
Life is full of imponderables .Have I criticised them (PJ or OG) at all? No I was making my point against you for accepting the half hearted attempt.
First demonstrate that either PJ or OG knew about this before criticising them for not following through (if in fact they didn't).
You refer to press articles to say no investigations took place. No quotes from the police involved and the reported Germans were Swiss which belies the dodgy registration number.
Operation Grange didn't exist in May 2007 ... the Amaral investigation did. But it seems they had other fish to fry if the sighting of a little girl in suspicious circumstances and in close proximity, resembling the missing child they were allegedly looking for didn't excite their interest.
Life is full of imponderables .
First demonstrate that either PJ or OG knew about this before criticising them for not following through (if in fact they didn't).
You seem to be assuming that the sighting was reported to the PJ. Perhaps you should attempt to confirm the veracity of your assumption before sharing your opinion on their supposed lack of reaction?
Amaral's second in command Ricardo Paiva continued in that vein from the archiving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until it was discovered that was what he was doing in 2010.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176347#msg176347
So there is irrefutable evidence that one particular section of the PJ personnel were systematically ignoring or suppressing evidence submitted to them whenever they were in the position to do so.
There are no reports from the 'police involved' for the very simple reason the police didn't bother to get themselves involved until the Berne police said in 2012 that Karsten Mayor has already “all but” been ruled out of enquiries.
Possibly awaiting DNA checks, who knows?
A possible sighting of a missing child in the days after her disappearance were simply ignored, that speaks volumes and it certainly speaks volumes to me about those who condone such negligence.
Your remark about the 'dodgy registration number' is also decidedly odd in my opinion given that it is exactly as the witness reported.
Snip
While their car was a Mercedes Vito people carrier first manufactured in 1996, it had a BE German number plate, which has not been used since 1974.
https://www.euroweeklynews.com/3.0.15/news/on-euro-weekly-news/costa-del-sol-malaga/92470
In conjunction with the rest of the witness's report ... how extraordinary is it that professional police officers supposed to be on the alert for a missing child, missed the obvious anomaly of the German number plate and didn't bother to check the sighting out?
Makes one wonder just what else they missed out.
I must say I don't really understand the point of your continued diatribe against the PJ.
It doesn't do anything to find Madeleine or those guilty of her disappearance.
As I have already said ... Operation Grange was not in existence in 2007. The McCann investigation carried out by the Policia Judiciaria was and was where all information regarding sightings were centralised.
Despite Alice's assurance that the Portuguese had state of the art military standard software at their disposal I have posted elsewhere on the board that the Amaral investigation apparently did not use it. Everything had to be digitised when Rebelo took over the investigation and found a shambles.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8922.msg438746#msg438746
Oh look. A Swiss plate with the letters BE
It should be noted that Sr Amaral was in charge for only four (ish) months whether or not he used the whizzy stuff I don't know and I doubt you do with any degree of accuracy as most of your cites come from Red Tops. Those who followed through used the whizzy stuff. Credit where credit is due confirmation of that was posted by you or misty in an exchange you had a a few moths ago.
I just picked up on it as I was trained to read documents from beginning to end short back and sideways rather that just far enough to find something I liked.... ?>)()<
... and its relevance either to the thread or to the comments of the witness appear to be nil. So what do you think the point of it is?
It should be noted that Sr Amaral was in charge for only four (ish) months whether or not he used the whizzy stuff I don't know and I doubt you do with any degree of accuracy as most of your cites come from Red Tops. Those who followed through used the whizzy stuff. Credit where credit is due confirmation of that was posted by you or misty in an exchange you had a a few moths ago.
I just picked up on it as I was trained to read documents from beginning to end short back and sideways rather that just far enough to find something I liked.... ?>)()<
It indicates that there are vehicle plates in use other than obsolete German ones.
It could very well have been a Swiss plate that was seen rather than a German one -IMO
It indicates that there are vehicle plates in use other than obsolete German ones.
It could very well have been a Swiss plate that was seen rather than a German one -IMO
Then wouldn't that have been simple enough to say in the first instance? In my opinion it does rather help the flow of discussion on what is after all a discussion forum ... perennial put downs are just sooo last year don't you find.
Especially as the hunted for man was a Swiss living in Berne.
Especially as the hunted for man was a Swiss living in Berne.
Bern. BE. Well there you are, a simple explanation after all @)(++(*
Included in the file we know for certain was in the hands of the Policia Judiciaria and in Paiva's 'not relevant file' is ...
Snip
:: Information about a British-registered white Mercedes box van which travelled on a ferry from Tarifa to Tangiers to Morocco from Spain with false number plates in the week Madeleine went missing. Its driver could not be traced
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html
So no doubt there will be a simple explanation for that and all the rest of it too 8**8:/:
Included in the file we know for certain was in the hands of the Policia Judiciaria and in Paiva's 'not relevant file' is ...
Snip
:: Information about a British-registered white Mercedes box van which travelled on a ferry from Tarifa to Tangiers to Morocco from Spain with false number plates in the week Madeleine went missing. Its driver could not be traced
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html
So no doubt there will be a simple explanation for that and all the rest of it too 8**8:/:
I wonder how many British registered vans with false number plates crossed borders that week?
Included in the file we know for certain was in the hands of the Policia Judiciaria and in Paiva's 'not relevant file' is ...
Snip
:: Information about a British-registered white Mercedes box van which travelled on a ferry from Tarifa to Tangiers to Morocco from Spain with false number plates in the week Madeleine went missing. Its driver could not be traced
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html
So no doubt there will be a simple explanation for that and all the rest of it too 8**8:/:
It indicates that there are vehicle plates in use other than obsolete German ones.Are the plates identified back to a country with the flag symbol?
It could very well have been a Swiss plate that was seen rather than a German one -IMO
Are the plates identified back to a country with the flag symbol?
Goncalo Amaral was the case coordinator during the most important phase of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance which is inclusive of the golden hours.
His own words attest in my opinion, to the importance any investigation with him at its head would give to a sighting of a live child. Bearing in mind his much publicised opinion which wrote off Madeleine from the first day as dead and that she had died in the apartment on the night of her disappearance.
Dra Duarte asked a pertinent question of Amaral's second in command Paiva ... in my opinion the same question could well be directed to his former boss.
Yes. It's all explained here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_SwitzerlandBut does each country do something like that?
Each country has its own rules. Some show a national flag, others don'tSo if some one wrote down their registration number would they have to say the country of registration as well?
So if some one wrote down their registration number would they have to say the country of registration as well?
Like they had the registration number but not the country. So someone messed up somewhere.
Possibly. If the only providence is a newspaper article, then anything might have happened.You could see how it happens - from a distance one takes down a registration number and the people speak German so they make the assumption they are German number plates but when the police check them they appear to be old obsolete German plates. But it only begins to make sense when the Police realise they are Swiss plates and the man is traced to Berne in Switzerland.
I wonder how many British registered vans with false number plates crossed borders that week?Up to no good if false number plates
You could see how it happens - from a distance one takes down a registration number and the people speak German so they make the assumption they are German number plates but when the police check them they appear to be old obsolete German plates. But it only begins to make sense when the Police realise they are Swiss plates and the man is traced to Berne in Switzerland.I think that you could be right Rob. Just a mix up between the number plates of one country (Germany) and another (Switzerland), but who knows now for sure.
You could see how it happens - from a distance one takes down a registration number and the people speak German so they make the assumption they are German number plates but when the police check them they appear to be old obsolete German plates. But it only begins to make sense when the Police realise they are Swiss plates and the man is traced to Berne in Switzerland.
The news of this sighting was just one which emerged in the press at the time of the 5th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. It wasn't the only one to involve a sighting in Spain, either. I found an interesting comment about these stories;
Eamonn Holmes: But you see, part of me just doubts whether this is true or not, or is it about just keeping the awareness, keeping the profile, keeping us all thinking about it? The parents may be complicit in this, I don't know,
and encouraging these stories and keeping them out just to keep people aware.
On May 3rd 2012 The Olive Press ran this;
A BRITISH expat has come forward believing to have seen Maddie McCann in Nerja – exactly five years since her disappearance.
Rose Johnson, 70,
In the comments beneath this article we see how they found Karen Sisson;
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/karensissoncomment.jpg)
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id416.htm
Robberies from hotels are commonplace in most countries and Portugal is no different. The police don't have the manpower to go chasing after these criminals so the best anyone can hope for is an insurance payout.
It is possible that the witness mistook the Swiss speech for German. So what! I'm sure had the sighting been checked out by the police in 2007 that would have been discovered then rather than being ignored until 2012.
The whole point which is being being deflected away from is that in the days following the disappearance of a little blonde girl a lookalike little blonde girl was noticed in a camp site within easy travelling distance.
Valid questions were raised about her demeanour.
Valid questions were raised about her apparent late addition to the family party she was with.
Valid questions were raised about the vehicle they travelled in.
Despite the witness being very proactive in reporting this it seems to have been ignored. In much the same manner as Jayne Jensen and Annie Wiltshire's sighting of two blonde men appeared to have been too and without their persistence would never have been heard of.
Mr and Mrs McCluskey also had to exercise extreme persistence to have the details of their sighting put on record; the little blonde girl they saw was apparently vouched for by her mother and by neighbours.
If these three instances which had the potential to be of relevance to finding Madeleine in the hours and days after her disappearance were ignored ... what else of paramount importance was ignored?
Snip
They also claimed they saw two blond, tanned men acting suspiciously near the McCanns’ holiday home on the afternoon before Madeleine went missing.
Annie Wiltshire and her sister Jayne Jensen said they tried to tell Portuguese police at the time and then tried to speak to police in the UK without success.
They were not on the original police list of potential witnesses because their apartment was not in the same block as the McCanns’.
They finally spoke to the British authorities two months ago.
The details were passed onto Kate and Gerry McCann’s private detective agency in Spain, Metodo 3, but have only just emerged.
The women, both thought to be in their 40s from Aylesford in Kent, were on a two-week holiday in the Algarve at the same time as the McCanns and became friends through tennis.
They were staying in an apartment nearby and on the day Madeleine disappeared, they say they saw two men in a neighbouring apartment acting suspiciously.
A source close to the investigation said: “The sisters saw two men wearing trunks, standing on a balcony, whom they had not seen before. They just felt that they looked odd, but didn’t do anything about it.”
Later that night, Madeleine vanished and the women helped with the search.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mrs Wiltshire showed a Portuguese police officer the apartment where the two blond men had been staying, but it was empty.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1573833/Robert-Murat-near-Madeleine-McCanns-flat.html
The Swiss language being what? Swissish? There are four official languages in Switzerland. German, French, Italian and Romansh. German is the dominant language with 63% of the people speaking it. In 17 of Switzerland's 26 Cantons German is the only official language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Switzerland
The fact is that we get a report from someone saying 5 years after the event that she reported a sighting. It is possible that she misremembered the nationality but remembered he spoke German. It is also possible given that the registration was passed to the police that they made enquiries and ruled the Swiss chap out. The police have no requirement to inform providers of tip offs of the outcome of those tips offs and especially tip offs from tourists.
The Swiss chap knew nothing until 2012.
Which rather suggests that no-one contacted him or ruled him out in 2007.
Interesting that in another thread you have gone to bat in defence of uncorroborated information put into the public domain ... but question a witness (misremembered)?? who gave details back in the day to various agencies some of whom will have a record of that report.
I notice from Karen's quote (post 66), that she mentions them as being a family with a people carrier.
The use of 'family' suggests to me that there were children present in this group.
It is very unlikely that a family group with children would kidnap another child.
I notice from Karen's quote (post 66), that she mentions them as being a family with a people carrier.I was looking for someone (police) to speak to the wife and the 3 kids. 2 kids had dark curly hair, and the other with straight blond hair. I could imagine if they were involved the parents would just need to say something like "we're going to have a visitor staying for a few months".
The use of 'family' suggests to me that there were children present in this group.
It is very unlikely that a family group with children would kidnap another child.
Oh ,,, did you have to google that too? Despite having a Swiss acquaintance I had no idea what he sounds like when speaking at home having only heard him speaking in English which far surpasses mine.
So I used Google to see how close to German the family on the campsite may have sounded prior to making my post.
As you too will have discovered, to a non German speaker they may very well have sounded German.
Is there a difference between German and Swiss German?
Swiss German has its own pronunciation, many different words, its own grammar, and most Germans have difficulty understanding this funny language. The German-speaking Swiss write standard German, that's true - there is no Swiss German official language (but still some literature, e-mails etc. using the dialect).
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swiss+language+german&rlz=1C1CHBH_en-GBGB727GB727&oq=swiss+language+german&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.17371j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Interesting you should quote Eamonn Holmes who has a great deal of sympathy and understanding for the plight of the McCann family and Madeleine. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/60april12/SKY_18_04_2012.htm
Having been subject to a burglary in 2008 his police experience appears to have been a less than positive one.
Snip
The former UTV man hit out at the Portuguese police investigation into the burglary and expressed sympathy for the parents of missing toddler Maddie McCann.
He said: “Like Kate and Gerry McCann, I’ve had dealings with the Portuguese police.
“But unlike Kate and Gerry, I was only trying to report a burglary — not the theft of my child.
“One of the things obvious to anyone dealing with the police on the Algarve is the sorry fact that no matter what you have lost, there simply isn’t enough of them to begin tracking it down.
“That may be one of the worst twists of fate in what happened to Madeleine — that tragically, she went missing in the wrong place.”
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/eamonn-holmes-robbed-of-10000-while-on-algarve-holiday-28442224.html
So if some one wrote down their registration number would they have to say the country of registration as well?
Like they had the registration number but not the country. So someone messed up somewhere.
I knew that some countries don't have a language; Switzerland, Belgium and Monaco in particular. I also knew that if I posted that without a cite one would have been demanded.
What do you mean they "don't have a language"? How do they communicate then? lol
I looked into this at the time (I seem to remember a photo of the plates floating around the Internet).
From memory, yes, there was a BE German plate in (fairly rare) existence at the time, but in fact the plates in question were Swiss (canton of Bern, hence BE).
And no, I'm not going to spend an entire day trying to find it again.
Oh ,,, did you have to google that too? Despite having a Swiss acquaintance I had no idea what he sounds like when speaking at home having only heard him speaking in English which far surpasses mine.
So I used Google to see how close to German the family on the campsite may have sounded prior to making my post.
As you too will have discovered, to a non German speaker they may very well have sounded German.
Is there a difference between German and Swiss German?
Swiss German has its own pronunciation, many different words, its own grammar, and most Germans have difficulty understanding this funny language. The German-speaking Swiss write standard German, that's true - there is no Swiss German official language (but still some literature, e-mails etc. using the dialect).
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swiss+language+german&rlz=1C1CHBH_en-GBGB727GB727&oq=swiss+language+german&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.17371j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Given that Switzerland is not in the EU and Spain is how come the witness missed the kin great white oval with black "CH" on it stuck on the back of the vehicle ? [that is de riguer not to mention law].
Of course it's feasible they didn't bother with the niceties, well they were a hooky bunch weren't they? . So let's be unobtrusive and drive a vehicle with Swiss plates and no nationality markings through a foreign country.
What a good idea.
Although I do believe they're supposed to, not all Swiss cars have the big CH sticker. The plates themselves have a Swiss flag on the left and normally the cantonal flag on the right. The initial letters refer to the canton.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22swiss+license+plates%22&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:Ce_1NTy10UWE_1IjgDr_1ny_1TGAdLWgJZx7fBy_1JUvQpqgWFuCX0P9RbJmFcyzXs3yZT1mrUmwaushMUzA3Oc13Uqjv1ioSCQOv-fL9MYB0EYHtv-ejNnzwKhIJtaAlnHt8HL8Ro4R_1J3RqMsMqEgklS9CmqBYW4BGdKNx7oJvJDCoSCZfQ_11FsmYVzETh6LLsjA60FKhIJLNezfJlPWasRDDndBW8_1TPgqEglSbBq6yExTMBFGhyBDDY4ihyoSCTc5zXdSqO_1WEYQD[Name removed]pm6Hv_1&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjunN[Name removed]gJnZAhWKORQKHYR_DS8Q9C96BAgAEB4&biw=1171&bih=731&dpr=2#imgrc=t1NraiiZvYpIKM:
I was thinking more in terms of EU requirements when driving a non member state vehicle within the EU.
There are some weird regs governing that. I believe (but stand to be corrected) that the oval naionality sticker is required by EU law in this event.
I am old enough to remember when we had to have the white oval GB sticker on the back of our motors when we went beyond the soggy bits at Dover and Fishguard.
The French don't bother with this. It's all on the number plate.But is it big enough to see it from a distance? You see a crime in action and take down the number plate numbers, but could you see what country and area within that country the plates were issued?
But is it big enough to see it from a distance? You see a crime in action and take down the number plate numbers, but could you see what country and area within that country the plates were issued?
One thing that has passed me by. If this woman was so certain in her identification, why did she not confront this family at the time?She is rather small. Maybe it was a fear if she interfered they could storm off? Around here people are advised to call the police rather that take individual action.
She is rather small. Maybe it was a fear if she interfered they could storm off? Around here people are advised to call the police rather that take individual action.
How do you know that? Curious, not challenging what you sayI saw a photo of her and her husband. They looked about 5 foot 2 both of them. Karen Sisson still has a couple photos available on Google images (probably photoshopped) http://themaddiecasefiles.com/imageproxy.php?url=http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz357/JillyCL/karen-sisson-saw-maddie-at-cabopino-site-on-costa-del-sol1.jpg
But is it big enough to see it from a distance? You see a crime in action and take down the number plate numbers, but could you see what country and area within that country the plates were issued?
If you're close enough to be able to catch the number plates, you're close enough to see the country code (EU) or in the Swiss case, the flag (s).No they can't have been. IMO for the police are thinking the number plates are obsolete German ones.
In any case, the nationality and number plates were probably noted on the registration form.
No they can't have been. IMO for the police are thinking the number plates are obsolete German ones.
No they can't have been. IMO for the police are thinking the number plates are obsolete German ones.
The French don't bother with this. It's all on the number plate.
But this witness saw this child again the next day at the campsite (from your OP). They family was presumably staying there. Loads of time to check on a number plate.It may have been hard for them to do secretly. I don't know and I can't ask her ATM as I'm blocked.
It may have been hard for them to do secretly. I don't know and I can't ask her ATM as I'm blocked.
What would have been secret if they were staying at the campsite or even day-visiting?Some people are bold and others aren't.
I saw a photo of her and her husband. They looked about 5 foot 2 both of them. Karen Sisson still has a couple photos available on Google images (probably photoshopped) http://themaddiecasefiles.com/imageproxy.php?url=http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz357/JillyCL/karen-sisson-saw-maddie-at-cabopino-site-on-costa-del-sol1.jpg
The more you talk this through, the less credible she begins to sound to me.It is possibly one of the most incredible events really. She reported the sighting 6th May 2007. Years later she reported the sighting to the UK police who did a follow-up (2012?). She has moved to PdL to live and possible now owns apartment 5A the apartment from where Madeleine went missing.
Always given it is possible to accurately assess scale in a photo or video. Other than a military effort taken specifically for the purpose.Well that was my impression for they had that dumpy look about them. OK it is all just impressions and I think that is clear. All opinion in the end.
I commend the techniques used in two "notorious" movies:
"Shane" in which Alan Ladd at 1.68m was shown to be taller than Jack Palance at 1.93m+
"Big Jim McClain" in which John Wayne at 1.93 (in his 100mm lifts) was made to look taller than James Arness at 2.01m.
eta.
The acid test with any scaling attempt on a photo is: "Will that finger go up that nostril".
The more you talk this through, the less credible she begins to sound to me.
It is possibly one of the most incredible events really. She reported the sighting 6th May 2007. Years later she reported the sighting to the UK police who did a follow-up (2012?). She has moved to PdL to live and possible now owns apartment 5A the apartment from where Madeleine went missing.
That is rather an amazing degree of involvement, if I haven't crossed my wires. I must admit I'm still confused as to who tracked down Karsten Mayer to Berne.
Given that Switzerland is not in the EU and Spain is how come the witness missed the kin great white oval with black "CH" on it stuck on the back of the vehicle ? [that is de riguer not to mention law].Perhaps they didn't see the back and wrote the number plate down from the front, not realizing that it was Swiss?
Of course it's feasible they didn't bother with the niceties, well they were a hooky bunch weren't they? . So let's be unobtrusive and drive a vehicle with Swiss plates and no nationality markings through a foreign country.
What a good idea.
It may have been hard for them to do secretly. I don't know and I can't ask her ATM as I'm blocked.
It is possibly one of the most incredible events really. She reported the sighting 6th May 2007. Years later she reported the sighting to the UK police who did a follow-up (2012?). She has moved to PdL to live and possible now owns apartment 5A the apartment from where Madeleine went missing.
That is rather an amazing degree of involvement, if I haven't crossed my wires. I must admit I'm still confused as to who tracked down Karsten Mayer to Berne.
It doesn’t say that, it says the press chased it up.But that must be unusual for the press to follow these things up.
IMO a none story. If it was reported to the police the most like course would be that they turned up at the campsite and checked it up, were satisfied and left.
It doesn’t say that, it says the press chased it up.I found the reference again "* It has subsequently been reported that the ‘German’ couple spotted by Ms Sisson are Swiss. Karsten Mayer was reportedly interviewed by police in Bern after telling Swiss media that the girl mistaken for Madeleine McCann was in fact his own daughter."
IMO a none story. If it was reported to the police the most like course would be that they turned up at the campsite and checked it up, were satisfied and left.
I'm not happy yet!
"CID officers in Bern say that he has already 'all but' been ruled out of enquiries" I'm not happy just to have an all but ruled out situation.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/61may12/M_09_05_2012.htm
But that must be unusual for the press to follow these things up.
Not at the time, Rob. As long as a paper could find the most tenuous of potential connections to be able to fit "Maddie" into a story, it would guarantee extra sales.
IMO, many were people who genuinely thought they may have spotted her; others may well have been out to make a quick buck.
The confusion over the license plate no doubt added a bit of intrigue.
In my opinion people have a duty to report an incident which doesn't appear to be quite right to them if it involves a child and in particular if the child who caused the concern resembles a missing child.
In my opinion people have a duty to report an incident which doesn't appear to be quite right to them if it involves a child and in particular if the child who caused the concern resembles a missing child.
Yes, of course. And this lady was quite possibly in the largely "genuine" category.
People have a duty to report anything they feel is suspicious to the police. That's what this woman did, although I haven't seen it confirmed by the police afaik.
If she was dissatisfied with the reaction of the Spanish police and was really convinced that her sighting was important there were other options. She could have found the number of the PJ in Portugal and told them. She could have contacted Crimestoppers in the UK or Leicester Police.
It seems she did none of those things, she stayed quiet for five years instead. Then she spoke to the media. That wasn't in the line of duty. In fact it was counter-productive if OG had been informed because the story about her sighting was repeated in the Swiss media. The family concerned could have been long-gone by the time OG got round to investigating her story.
It seems the family had nothing to hide and came forward to make that clear. Another sighting explained. Despite the excitement in the media it was just another false alarm. End of story.
If she reported her 'sighting of Madeleine' to the Spanish police, rather than to the Portuguese, then the PJ can bear no responsibility for not investigating it.
It seems to be one of the few stories where there's no attempt to blame the PJ. @)(++(*
The lady in question has not moved to Luz; she now lives in Scotland.wasn't she 49 at the time and 11 years on = 60 years old, that could be her daughter rather than the mother if they have the same first name.
https://www.etsy.com/people/karensisson1
People have a duty to report anything they feel is suspicious to the police. That's what this woman did, although I haven't seen it confirmed by the police afaik.
If she was dissatisfied with the reaction of the Spanish police and was really convinced that her sighting was important there were other options. She could have found the number of the PJ in Portugal and told them. She could have contacted Crimestoppers in the UK or Leicester Police.
It seems she did none of those things, she stayed quiet for five years instead. Then she spoke to the media. That wasn't in the line of duty. In fact it was counter-productive if OG had been informed because the story about her sighting was repeated in the Swiss media. The family concerned could have been long-gone by the time OG got round to investigating her story.
It seems the family had nothing to hide and came forward to make that clear. Another sighting explained. Despite the excitement in the media it was just another false alarm. End of story.
The witness is on record as claiming to have reported the sighting several times in 2007 ... it was not checked out until Operation Grange was launched in 2012.
The lady in question has not moved to Luz; she now lives in Scotland.You appear to be right Misty, so the explanation is that they are two people with very similar names Karen Sisson and Karen Sissons.
https://www.etsy.com/people/karensisson1
On record several times or reported several times?
This constant nit picking is tiresome and in my opinion does not present you in your best light; what do you find difficult with understanding what I think is an easily understood sentence?
... "The witness is on record as claiming to have reported the sighting several times in 2007 ... it was not checked out until Operation Grange was launched in 2012."
Her claim is "on record" at the beginning of the thread and what is difficult about "reported the sighting several times in 2007"?
This constant nit picking is tiresome and in my opinion does not present you in your best light; what do you find difficult with understanding what I think is an easily understood sentence?
... "The witness is on record as claiming to have reported the sighting several times in 2007 ... it was not checked out until Operation Grange was launched in 2012."
Her claim is "on record" at the beginning of the thread and what is difficult about "reported the sighting several times in 2007"?
Is there any information on who she did these multiple reports to?
It would have saved time if you had added that to your original post.It wasn't necessary.
There's no evidence that Operation Grange did anything either, unless I've missed it.It was the actions of "The Olive Press" reporters that tracked Kraten Mayer down to Bern in Switzerland, I suppose it was the Swiss police who went and spoke to him, maybe he went to the Swiss police and admitted she was his daughter one or the other. Strange thing was that there was one admission that the two curly haired toddlers, who were "normal " to Karen, were not his. There were 3 kids with them but only one was his yet according to Karen she was the one not interacting with the family. That bit still sounds totally suspicious to me, always unsubstantiated IMO.
It was the actions of the Olive Tree reporters that tracked Kraten Mayer down to Bern in Switzerland, I suppose it was the Swiss police who went and spoke to him, maybe he went to the Swiss police and admitted she was his daughter one or the other. Strange thing was that there was one admission that the two curly haired toddlers, who were "normal " to Karen, were not his. There were 3 kids with them but only one was his yet according to Karen she was the one not interacting with the family. That bit still sounds totally suspicious to me, always unsubstantiated IMO.
It confirmed Karen's observations, that they were not playing like a family, but completely opposite to what she saw.
What OG did is not clear.
I suggest you are committing libel.It is all in the papers on the case. All is documented. I can cite every sentence there as it has been reported in the 20 or so internet articles on the incident. It might seem libellous but that is what has been written in the media.
It is all in the papers on the case. All is documented. I can cite every sentence there as it has been reported in the 20 or so internet articles on the incident. It might seem libellous but that is what has been written in the media.
It has been a matter of doing full internet searches and even translating the foreign language articles.
You are suggesting that someone who has been investigated and cleared is suspicious.http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9133.msg445838#msg445838
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9133.msg445838#msg445838
No report ever says he was investigated and cleared. The nearest to cleared was OG saying (or someone else saying I can't tell) he was "all but cleared". To me "all but cleared" is not cleared.
It is me who finds it suspicious. I'm not convinced that he has been cleared. They are mere opinions.
I think if he hadn't been cleared something would have come of it by now. For example if the Swiss police had proved the child he claimed as his daughter was actually Madeleine ... would that not have been fantastic and we would all have heard about it.
I think it is clear that Mr Mayer is squeaky clean and he is who he says he is and his daughter is who he says she is and his family circumstances are what he claims which explains why his daughter looks nothing like his dark haired boys.
His reported comment about going to the police really is not in the least cause for concern, in my opinion, just a perfectly normal reaction to setting the record straight and doing so as quickly as possible.
I think if he hadn't been cleared something would have come of it by now. For example if the Swiss police had proved the child he claimed as his daughter was actually Madeleine ... would that not have been fantastic and we would all have heard about it.If you think you can find cites for any of the things you think happened I'd like to read them.
I think it is clear that Mr Mayer is squeaky clean and he is who he says he is and his daughter is who he says she is and his family circumstances are what he claims which explains why his daughter looks nothing like his dark haired boys.
His reported comment about going to the police really is not in the least cause for concern, in my opinion, just a perfectly normal reaction to setting the record straight and doing so as quickly as possible.
I agree with you on that.
If you think you can find cites for any of the things you think happened I'd like to read them.
"his dark haired boys." There was a report saying those kids weren't his. He claims to have a daughter only.
In my opinion the explanation is simple. The two younger children were with their mother who may have been Mr Mayer's friend, partner or his wife ~ but he was not the father of her children.I like your possible explanation but there isn't any article so far which really backs that. I'm busy putting all the articles into one document so I can track various thoughts. It is a big job and will take a couple of days before I'm sure I've got the lot.
His blonde daughter may not have lived with them. She may have lived with her mother and was just on holiday with her father and new family which might explain some of the circumstances noted by the witness particularly her late addition to the party.
That is all supposition based on the details we have so no cites.
There is a quote from the Swiss police so they knew about it and their investigations were almost complete ... since we've heard nothing further from them ... I think Mr Mayer is well in the clear.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9133.msg445979#msg445979After about 3 hours of searching I found the cite I wanted:
No report ever says he was investigated and cleared. The nearest to cleared was OG saying (or someone else saying I can't tell) he was "all but cleared". To me "all but cleared" is not cleared.
It is me who finds it suspicious. I'm not convinced that he has been cleared. They are mere opinions.
It was the actions of "The Olive Press" reporters that tracked Kraten Mayer down to Bern in Switzerland, I suppose it was the Swiss police who went and spoke to him, maybe he went to the Swiss police and admitted she was his daughter one or the other. Strange thing was that there was one admission that the two curly haired toddlers, who were "normal " to Karen, were not his. There were 3 kids with them but only one was his yet according to Karen she was the one not interacting with the family. That bit still sounds totally suspicious to me, always unsubstantiated IMO.
It confirmed Karen's observations, that they were not playing like a family, but completely opposite to what she saw.
What OG did is not clear.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/05/08/did-german-couple-snatch-maddie-mccann/
"Intriguingly The Olive Press has now managed to locate details of a German family – under the name ‘Karsten Meyer’ – who did indeed check into the Cabopino campsite, near Fuengirola, three days after Maddie disappeared."
"The Olive Press is now trying to track down the couple and the information has been passed on to police and the family."
On the 10th of May 2012 two days after that report on the 8th it was reported that Karsten Mayer had been traced to Switzerland.I wonder if Karsten took any holiday snaps.
https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/maddie-suspect-comes-forward-1293511
I wonder if Karsten took any holiday snaps.
Probably ... but I don't think we will ever see them 8)-))) nor should we. None of our business.I was thinking what his proof would be that it was his daughter and not Madeleine, 5 years later. How could he prove it?
I was thinking what his proof would be that it was his daughter and not Madeleine, 5 years later. How could he prove it?
Are you still thinking there is reason to doubt this family? In my opinion there never was any reason for anyone to point the finger at them. This woman thought there might be and told the police. That was all she could or should have done imo.
Speaking to the press is never a good idea in my opinion. It may be flattering, but people should think about what they're doing. Karen Sisson was accusing a couple of kidnapping a child without any concrete reason whatsoever. The result was a story which was repeated across Europe naming this innocent family, thanks to the Olive Press digging around, also without any evidence.
The family were eliminated but they were never involved in the first place, except in the mind of someone who was 'looking for Madeleine'.
I was thinking what his proof would be that it was his daughter and not Madeleine, 5 years later. How could he prove it?
Technically. he doesn't need any proof.
Are you still thinking there is reason to doubt this family? In my opinion there never was any reason for anyone to point the finger at them. This woman thought there might be and told the police. That was all she could or should have done imo.
Speaking to the press is never a good idea in my opinion. It may be flattering, but people should think about what they're doing. Karen Sisson was accusing a couple of kidnapping a child without any concrete reason whatsoever. The result was a story which was repeated across Europe naming this innocent family, thanks to the Olive Press digging around, also without any evidence.
The family were eliminated but they were never involved in the first place, except in the mind of someone who was 'looking for Madeleine'.
In my opinion ... no-one "pointer the finger" at anyone. In the aftermath of the disappearance of a little blonde girl a witness noticed a little blonde girl in circumstances that seemed odd to her and within easy travel from the point of disappearance.
Years down the line it was discovered the little girl seen by the witness was not Madeleine. But what if it had been?
The witness played her part in reporting something she found suspicious ... do you suggest she should have ignored it? ... so much for amber warnings and golden hours eh?
As has already been agreed by most people, she should have reported it to the police. I think the question is, was getting in touch with the press when she hadn’t been updated by the police a good idea.
She did report it to the police in 2007.
Are you still thinking there is reason to doubt this family? In my opinion there never was any reason for anyone to point the finger at them. This woman thought there might be and told the police. That was all she could or should have done imo.I spent hours copying all the articles into one long document and now I was going through it looking for evidence and it has allowed me to focus more on what is being said rather that the chaos of hitting a link and translating it etc and I'm finding new bits in it.
Speaking to the press is never a good idea in my opinion. It may be flattering, but people should think about what they're doing. Karen Sisson was accusing a couple of kidnapping a child without any concrete reason whatsoever. The result was a story which was repeated across Europe naming this innocent family, thanks to the Olive Press digging around, also without any evidence.
The family were eliminated but they were never involved in the first place, except in the mind of someone who was 'looking for Madeleine'.
She did report it to the police in 2007.But what they did was not made clear to Karen so she worries about the incident. and as the years go by tries to solve it herself with the help of the Olive Press reporters. I see in their article they asked for more information from the public. "Did you stay at that campsite in 2007? Can you help locate Karsten Meyer? Please contact jon@theolivepress.es or wendy@theolivepress.es"
In my opinion ... no-one "pointer the finger" at anyone. In the aftermath of the disappearance of a little blonde girl a witness noticed a little blonde girl in circumstances that seemed odd to her and within easy travel from the point of disappearance.
Years down the line it was discovered the little girl seen by the witness was not Madeleine. But what if it had been?
The witness played her part in reporting something she found suspicious ... do you suggest she should have ignored it? ... so much for amber warnings and golden hours eh?
I spent hours copying all the articles into one long document and now I was going through it looking for evidence and it has allowed me to focus more on what is being said rather that the chaos of hitting a link and translating it etc and I'm finding new bits in it.
I am looking at the incident and thinking how should this be signed off? I think this is why I am not happy when they say: he is 'all but' cleared. They should have said "he is cleared". Problem is how can he clear all suspicion for something that happened 5 years earlier. What evidence could he present to clear himself? Maybe there were no photos of them at the holiday park or the photos might have got lost.
Amaral's second in command Ricardo Paiva continued in that vein from the archiving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until it was discovered that was what he was doing in 2010.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176347#msg176347
So there is irrefutable evidence that one particular section of the PJ personnel were systematically ignoring or suppressing evidence submitted to them whenever they were in the position to do so.
I think you are looking at this the wrong way round.Wouldn't that be even worse for him, for then they might give him the treatment like the PJ did to Robert Murat.
It's not necessary for him to provide evidence. It is for the police to find evidence that would incriminate. It would appear they haven't been able to do this.
Have you found what action the Spanish police took in 2007?
But what they did was not made clear to Karen so she worries about the incident. and as the years go by tries to solve it herself with the help of the Olive Press reporters. I see in their article they asked for more information from the public. "Did you stay at that campsite in 2007? Can you help locate Karsten Meyer? Please contact jon@theolivepress.es or wendy@theolivepress.es"
A woman reports a suspicion to, I believe, the Spanish and Gibraltarian police and to Crimestoppers. If she was very concerned she could have contacted each of them and asked what had been done. Did she do that?I travelled to Italy with a friend and she had travelled often, but when we were in Italy she would warn me "not to even look at the police officers". If Karen had the same paranoia maybe the thought of checking up on them is just too much.
Wouldn't that be even worse for him, for then they might give him the treatment like the PJ did to Robert Murat.
No there is no mention of what the Spanish police did.
If I was innocent in that situation I think I would have given all the proof I had, but then I hardly bother with photos either. So I'd be stuck. Could a 4 year old remember the holiday?
I travelled to Italy with a friend and she had travelled often, but when we were in Italy she would warn me "not to even look at the police officers". If Karen had the same paranoia maybe the thought of checking up on them is just too much.
As has already been agreed by most people, she should have reported it to the police. I think the question is, was getting in touch with the press when she hadn’t been updated by the police a good idea.
I already said she should have reported it. My opinion is that having done that she and the Olive Press then took an indefensible step. They circumvented the authorities and pointed the finger at an innocent family;
Intriguingly The Olive Press has now managed to locate details of a German family – under the name ‘Karsten Meyer’ – who did indeed check into the Cabopino campsite, near Fuengirola, three days after Maddie disappeared.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/05/08/did-german-couple-snatch-maddie-mccann/
I think the woman shouldn't have spoken to the press and the press definitely shouldn't have printed someone's name on the basis of what was no more than one woman's opinion. If the family did have Madeleine the publicity warned them and gave them time to disappear. Not the best way to set about finding the child in my opinion.
I know, jeez.
Excellent.
Then maybe you also know and can share why the witness only discovered in 2014 that nothing had been done about it at the time she originally reported it?
Perhaps it would have been better to have contacted the Olive Press in 2007 in preference to the authorities ... it might have generated some action?
Excellent.
Then maybe you also know and can share why the witness only discovered in 2014 that nothing had been done about it at the time she originally reported it?
Perhaps it would have been better to have contacted the Olive Press in 2007 in preference to the authorities ... it might have generated some action?
Excellent.
Then maybe you also know and can share why the witness only discovered in 2014 that nothing had been done about it at the time she originally reported it?
Perhaps it would have been better to have contacted the Olive Press in 2007 in preference to the authorities ... it might have generated some action?
What was the witness expecting to be done, along with all the other thousands of Maddie Sightings around the world...
How did she know for sure it was MBM well she didn't did she.
What kind of hysteria were you thinking of creating regarding contacting the Olive Press?
This was the magazine with the dodgy German number plate.
This was the magazine with the dodgy German number plate.
Yes well that and a little blonde girl from Germany= Maddie? the chances?
I don't know baout y'all, but My sister lives in Germany with her German Husband and German children who all happen to have cars and blonde hair.. funny that! oh one same age as Maddie!!!!.
I feel the same about the smith sighting......very inconclusive
At least he was out and about in PdL on the night in question...
Irrefutable? An unsubstantiated claim in a British newspaper. Hardly irrefutable.
How did she discover that nothing has been done?
I feel the same about the smith sighting......very inconclusive
At least he was out and about in PdL on the night in question...
With other people, and they reported to the police not the NOTW, or the SUN or SKY.
Interesting question that ... perhaps you might like to give it a teensy bit more thought and come back with something which might lend to the debate.
Not to say predictably and ridiculously repetitive on the occasions it has been decided to disrupt a thread ... every thread ... some threads ... any thread.
Just my opinion and probably very wide of the mark ... for why would our members wish to subvert the forum, as if!
How did she discover that nothing has been done?When the copies of the McCann files become available to the public. It happened to me when the file became public she would have had a chance to read about what the PJ had done about her sighting and find it isn't even listed in the list of sightings. I could imagine that was disappointing!
When the copies of the McCann files become available to the public. It happened to me when the file became public she would have had a chance to read about what the PJ had done about her sighting and find it isn't even listed in the list of sightings. I could imagine that was disappointing!
When the copies of the McCann files become available to the public. It happened to me when the file became public she would have had a chance to read about what the PJ had done about her sighting and find it isn't even listed in the list of sightings. I could imagine that was disappointing!
What? As she never told the PJ why do you imagine she expected them to do anything?It sounds like she did everything possible to alert the authorities. I'll work out who was contacted and when?
It sounds like she did everything possible to alert the authorities. I'll work out who was contacted and when?
Did you read the bit where Karen revisited the camp site a week later?
"So convinced was she that it could be Maddie she actually made a two hour round trip a week later to check the family out again.
“I literally could not sleep, it haunted me and I decided to drive back to have a second look,” she said.
“It definitely looked like her, and again I contacted Crimestoppers and even my local Gibraltarian police, but nothing seems to have been done.”"
It sounds as if she didn't have a very good second look and she contacts everyone except the relevant PJ. Why would that be?Languages would come into it. Maybe she can speak English and Spanish but not Portuguese.
It sounds like she did everything possible to alert the authorities. I'll work out who was contacted and when?
Did you read the bit where Karen revisited the camp site a week later?
"So convinced was she that it could be Maddie she actually made a two hour round trip a week later to check the family out again.
“I literally could not sleep, it haunted me and I decided to drive back to have a second look,” she said.
“It definitely looked like her, and again I contacted Crimestoppers and even my local Gibraltarian police, but nothing seems to have been done.”"
It sounds like she did everything possible to alert the authorities. I'll work out who was contacted and when?
Did you read the bit where Karen revisited the camp site a week later?
"So convinced was she that it could be Maddie she actually made a two hour round trip a week later to check the family out again.
“I literally could not sleep, it haunted me and I decided to drive back to have a second look,” she said.
“It definitely looked like her, and again I contacted Crimestoppers and even my local Gibraltarian police, but nothing seems to have been done.”"
Why you're clinging to this sighting I don't know. The PJ files are full of sightings which people reported from all over Europe including Spain and Gibraltar. I think it's highly unlikely that both police forces neglected to pass Mrs Sisson's sighting on. What an unfortunate coincidence that would be.I'm not clinging to any sighting, but we are discussing this particular sighting and the fact it never got signed off fully.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_INTERPOL.htm
Maybe you could point out when it was reported to the PJ?I discovered today it was reported to the PJ via the BBC editor who took the information from Karen and the PJ rang her back and talked to her but didn't take any more details than what had already been given to the BBC. This happened in the first few days of her discovering this girl at the camp.
What? As she never told the PJ why do you imagine she expected them to do anything?See my reply above. OK it is 11 years since Karen did these things and I found her a little at odds with what it said in the reports, but I'm sure before long a clearer recollection will return.
This was the magazine with the dodgy German number plate.From what I understand they went beyond that and discovered they were Swiss plates.
From what I understand they went beyond that and discovered they were Swiss plates.
so he doesnt need to prove his innocence...sounds fair enoughBut then does a degree of doubt remain over his name?
I discovered today it was reported to the PJ via the BBC editor who took the information from Karen and the PJ rang her back and talked to her but didn't take any more details than what had already been given to the BBC. This happened in the first few days of her discovering this girl at the camp.
Is there any information on who she did these multiple reports to?It is now a matter of Karen remembering details that are nearly 11 years in the past.
I discovered today it was reported to the PJ via the BBC editor who took the information from Karen and the PJ rang her back and talked to her but didn't take any more details than what had already been given to the BBC. This happened in the first few days of her discovering this girl at the camp.
See my reply above. OK it is 11 years since Karen did these things and I found her a little at odds with what it said in the reports, but I'm sure before long a clearer recollection will return.
So she contacted the Olive Press because she had 'had no answers'. Why didn't she contact the Spanish, Gibralta or UK police?In the Skype conversation which isn't recorded she said she returned 2 times back to the camp to see if anything had happened. I suppose the emailing occurred after the original visit.
The Olive Press were selling these stories to the UK press? Nice little earner for them then. I wonder if they checked with 'the family' before printing this story as they did with others?
We double checked his credentials, ran it past Maddie’s family and published a carefully worded and, I believe, sensitive piece, which then of course got picked up by the Sun to be splashed on its front page. Not so sensitively.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
Picked up by or paid for by the Sun, Mr Clarke?
Is she now saying the Portuguese police rang her? Prompted by the BBC? That's a new one.
She 'knew the investigation was flawed' did she? Knew or believed?
Operation Grange also had no interest in 2012 in discussing her sighting?
So she went to the campsite on 5th May 2007. When did she e-mail a poster to the campsite, before her visit? The case was on her mind then.
I don't know whether Mrs Sisson was genuine or not. I do know that she was taken for a ride by the Olive Press who were interested only in headlines and selling stories on.
It seems pretty obvious to me that no-one in authority is interested in her information and never were.
I can understand that she wanted to know if the police had checked it out or not. She said that the PJ did contact her, but then they'd have presumably asked the Spanish police to check up on it. Neither were likely to keep her informed. Neither would Crimestoppers as they just pass along info. Nor would the Gib police who would presumably also simply pass it on to the PJ.We just don't know. Someone should have made a statement to the effect that Karsten was cleared.
There's no way of knowing whether it was checked out at the time or not. Anyway, the chap apparently went to the police himself when he learned of the media rumpus in 2012, but he doesn't say whether he was contacted by any police force back in 2007. Perhaps there was no need to contact the family directly if they'd traced him and established that he had three kids, one of whom was a little girl of Madeleine's age.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/05/09/spanish-maddie-mystery-solved/
We just don't know. Someone should have made a statement to the effect that Karsten was cleared.
Or maybe it is impossible to clear someone 5 years after the event.
snip
It seems pretty obvious to me that no-one in authority is interested in her information and never were.
We just don't know. Someone should have made a statement to the effect that Karsten was cleared.
Or maybe it is impossible to clear someone 5 years after the event.
Statement to whom ? Police are not obliged to keep the public informed.Well they have done a good job of keeping him under suspicion then IMO for they only go as far as saying he is all but cleared.
Well, if he did go to the police, it doesn't appear to have been to confess to an abduction, in any event... :)But in the little bit he says we have noticed he has made two mistakes:
Well they have done a good job of keeping him under suspicion then IMO for they only go as far as saying he is all but cleared.
Again by whom? Police forces don't seem to be interestedI understand that was the Swiss police. "Detectives in Bern say he has “all but” been ruled out of inquiries. - Daily Mail"
In the Skype conversation which isn't recorded she said she returned 2 times back to the camp to see if anything had happened. I suppose the emailing occurred after the original visit.
I understand that was the Swiss police. "Detectives in Bern say he has “all but” been ruled out of inquiries. - Daily Mail"
or another "CID officers in Bern say that he has already 'all but' been ruled out of enquiries."
But in the little bit he says we have noticed he has made two mistakes:
1. The camp never had posters of Madeleine displayed while he was there according to Karen.
2. She never reported him driving with the girl in a car. "A Swiss father-of-three is being interviewed by police today after it emerged he was the mystery man seen driving from the camping ground with a girl who looked like Maddie McCann days after she vanished in 2007."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141774/Madeleine-McCann-sighting-Swiss-father-says-mystery-man-seen-driving-blonde-girl.html#ixzz56tI0Kr1W
"'That wasn't Maddie... it was my daughter': Swiss father says he was mystery man seen driving blonde girl identical to Madeleine days after she vanished"
who saw him driving?
but there was this sighting and it could be close by. https://web.archive.org/web/20071225201650/http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6870978,00.html
Guessing and supposing are no substitute for knowing.
The media have had a lovely time in this case casting aspersions far and wide with little or no evidence as in this example. It's a very irresponsible and even dangerous way to behave. What if some people in Switzerland had been as stupid as some were in the UK in response to the press?
Self-styled vigilantes attacked the home of a hospital paediatrician after apparently confusing her professional title with the word "paedophile", it emerged yesterday.
Why? The press;
Dr Cloete is the latest victim to have been wrongly identified by anti-paedophile campaigners in the wave of protests which have swept the country following the News of the World's campaign to "name and shame" alleged sex offenders.
Five families who were wrongly identified as harbouring sex offenders were forced to flee their homes in the Paulsgrove estate in Portsmouth as violence flared earlier this month.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society
Robitty has reported that the witness said, " ... you know it is hard for someone like me to come forward as you are made to feel like you are a time waster or accusing an innocent person ."
In my opinion that is exactly the image the criticism of all reports of possible sightings of Madeleine McCann are are designed to portray.
How sad would it be if a witness was put off from reporting a possible sighting knowing the derision and ridicule it would most certainly attract and the child later proved to be Madeleine?
Like certain people in the UK?
I seem to remember threats to kidnap the twins to get Kate to "confess" and insinuations of a desire to throw Molotov cocktails at the McCann's house, plus various other proposed actions over the years, all in the name of "seeking justice" for Madeleine.
I hope you don't approve of that, either, do you G-Unit?
Anyone with any sense knows that speaking to the press is not the right route.
Not in a highly organised police environment, I'd agree. However, IMO, this case was anything at the time.
Which country's police force are you criticising? She was ignored by the authorities in Spain, Gibraltar and the UK Crimestoppers in 2007 and by the Met in 2012.
What makes you think she was "ignored"? Sad, if true.
I can't imagine why you might think I approve of anyone threatening the McCanns or anyone else. I don't see why it's relevant to my point either, unless you are suggesting it happened due to irresponsible reporting?
Quick, you'd better tell OG to stop wasting their time on Smithman and concentrate on Bernman @)(++(*Done that.
Anyone with any sense knows that speaking to the press is not the right route.In a desperate attempt to contact the PJ she rang a BBC editor who put the PJ in contact with her. I only hope the call back to here from a PJ officer was not some hoax.
Great Idea, since you have some sway with them.First time she was there without a camera, on her return trips she did not she the girl playing outside, and the caravan was covered in sheeting on the outside.
But what I can't understand is why didn't Karen send off the pictures she took to the family to the police or the McCann web site. Oh she didn't take any for evidence? aw that's a damn shame so it is. Tsk.
And how do you know this?This from a conversation with Karen Sisson. I could ask her to join the forum and tell you directly.
This from a conversation with Karen Sisson. I could ask her to join the forum and tell you directly.
In a desperate attempt to contact the PJ she rang a BBC editor who put the PJ in contact with her. I only hope the call back to here from a PJ officer was not some hoax.
It all gets very hearsay.Any reporter reports what a witness tells them. Is it always going to be fobbed off as hearsay? I spoke to her and I am telling you what I heard her say. That is not hearsay.
An unnamed BBC editor with the time, interest and knowledge to persuade the PJ to call her? A fact that she never mentioned before? Yeah, right.*I might have been the first person to actually interview her. (Other than the supposed PJ who rang her back but took no notes).
I might have been the first person to actually interview her. (Other than the supposed PJ who rang her back but took no notes).
I'm still unsure how the Olive Press got involved. Did Jon or Wendy interview her then? Or was that a result of the BBC.
She commented under an article and was invited to contact them.Could you give me the URL of the article you are referring to please? I'm finding there are articles that were not found in my Google search the other day.
Could you give me the URL of the article you are referring to please? I'm finding there are articles that were not found in my Google search the other day.
Any reporter reports what a witness tells them. Is it always going to be fobbed off as hearsay? I spoke to her and I am telling you what I heard her say. That is not hearsay.
You say that she said that a BBC reporter said that the PJ said...
First time she was there without a camera, on her return trips she did not she the girl playing outside, and the caravan was covered in sheeting on the outside.
No camera huh? shame that. Of course I don't believe she did see MBM. She saw a German/Swiss Child with blonde hair, what are the bloody chances of that eh?This part of an article definitely is suggestive of an interview with Karen Sisson so I was wrong to think I was a first to interview her.
what does this mean? (Other than the supposed PJ who rang her back but took no notes), who took no notes what was the policemans name and badge /ID number.... oh wait she forgot to ask? tsk
Are we going to work our way through all 8000 odd "sightings"?
Are we going to work our way through all 8000 odd "sightings"?Most would have nothing to work from. This seems a special incident as it was followed up privately and became newsworthy.
Most would have nothing to work from. This seems a special incident as it was followed up privately and became newsworthy.
We have to fill the next 7 months somehow.....
So did the parents email Karen back? did they go to Gibraltar camp-site? did they send a team to get a efit of the family?You would wonder what they should have done. Maybe they forwarded it onto the PJ for them to investigate.
@ Alice only another 7998 to go. ^*&& 8**8:/: ?>)()<
Like what is happening in September?
The imminent next batch of OG dosh will reach its use-by date.
Oh!
You reckon the story has legs then, not just Brunty retreading last years Feb/Mar story ?
Oh yes. I'm loving the words 'complicated' & 'sensitive diplomacy'.
I was wondering what sort of complicated job needs a drip feed of eighty four grand every three months.
I was wondering what sort of complicated job needs a drip feed of eighty four grand every three months.
One that someone has lost their grip on? Lyndon Johnson fired William Westmoreland for trying to pull that trick once too often.
Then I thought 'complicated' & 'sensitive diplomacy' *%87 quick send for Boris.
I can understand why some sceptics might wish to ridicule requests for funding by the highly professional body involved in the search for a child missing for nearly eleven years.
As far as I am concerned the salient points areThe proof of the pudding will be in the eating and that will be if the case they present will convince government ministers to accede to the request for more funding.
- it is not a flippant request based on self interest designed to keep the investigation team in work ... they've all got jobs anyway
- they are professionals who, when or if they reach the end of the road ... will tidy up ... call it quits for the time being ... and move on to the next job
- the fact the request has been made for further funding strongly suggests they think it is worthwhile continuing with Madeleine's case
- the fact the request for further funding has been made strongly suggests they have information which will justify the request for the continuation of the search for Madeleine
Do I sniff the ordure of yet another letter writing campaign of objection to any positive glimmer of news or hope concerning Madeleine McCann? The "good work" must be kept going it seems so why not? Although in my opinion on pondering why the vitriol aimed at any positive moves on behalf of this little girl ... one really does have to question the motives behind it all.
Karen Sisson has made several attempts to raise awareness to the sighting she made, and made additional trips from Gibraltar to Camping Cabopino to check on the progress of any investigation there. She could not see any investigation. One year later she wrote to the McCann investigation site asking for a progress report and heard nothing back. In 2012 she was interviewed by journalists from The Olive Press online newspaper and had some success, the journalist traced the van and the owner to Bern in Switzerland. Karsten Mayer claimed it was his own daughter that was with in the vehicle, yet Karen never claimed she had seen the girl in a vehicle. He also claimed the campsite had lots of Madeleine McCann posters up but even though Karen returned to the camp her and her daughter confirmed no posters were present.
There was a woman present at the camp and in some ways reminded me of the Victoria Beckham lookalike female suspect that Dave Edgar was trying to track down. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/06/madeleine.mccann/index.html
The woman Karen chose from Google images as a good fit matched this Victoria Beckham image nearly 100%.
You’ve obviously never worked on a staffing budget. IMO
You’ve obviously never worked on a staffing budget. IMO
Rob, the tabloids have a habit of getting things wrong more often than right. I think you may be a bit too trusting of their reporting.
I don't see where he was quoted as saying that it was his daughter in "the car" except in the Dail Mail.
He told Blick, Switzerland's biggest daily paper; 'I did have a girl around about Maddie's age in the car - she was my own daughter who also happens to have blonde coloured hair and was about the same age as Maddie at the time.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141774/Madeleine-McCann-sighting-Swiss-father-says-mystery-man-seen-driving-blonde-girl.html#ixzz56yXGFyIU
The Daily Mail quotes Blick...
https://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/blick-ch-fand-den-vermeintlichen-schweizer-entfuehrer-das-war-meine-tochter-nicht-maddie-id1876329.html
What he is quoted as saying is that she might well have been a bit "out-of-it" at the time as it had been a long drive.
Not that Karen had seen her in the car.
Google translate:
The English papers write that the sighted girl had been absent on arrival. How does he explain this? "This is quite possible," laughs Karsten M. "Our daughter will have been tired after the long drive."
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blick.ch%2Fnews%2Fausland%2Fblick-ch-fand-den-vermeintlichen-schweizer-entfuehrer-das-war-meine-tochter-nicht-maddie-id1876329.html
A few more errors floating around:
According to her email that you posted:
"Here were two campervans also, one was a metallic light bronze colour, very long and pointed bonnet, I'm not sure of the make the other was a dark blue Mercedes possibly a Vito with Reg no. BE98918. The licence plate was white with black lettering and there was possibly a Netherlands badge.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9133.msg446431#msg446431
Ok, she got the country wrong - she thought it might have been the Netherlands. She refers to the possibility of a "badge" - IMO, that is more likely to be the Swiss flag than the blue EU strip down the left-hand side.
From there, the Sun appears to have found a photo of what looks like a Vito and a German plate, and one might be tempted to assume that it was a photo of the vehicle in question, which - seemingly - it wasn't.
Another clue that the Sun photo didn't illustrate a the vehicle in question is that a German plate that had been "out of use" for 38 years, is hardly likely to have the blue EU strip on it, which was adopted in 1994.
Another clue is there is (IMO) no point in pixellating the plate while at the same time naming the alleged owner.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1504342.main_image.jpg)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/595207/3-new-clues-to-maddie/
How many reporters do you think interviewed Karsten? I get the feeling it is the same story told in slightly different ways.
In that article he doesn't say how many children were with him, nor his partners name. He doesn't explain the sighting of the twin toddlers.
I can understand why some sceptics might wish to ridicule requests for funding by the highly professional body involved in the search for a child missing for nearly eleven years.
As far as I am concerned the salient points areThe proof of the pudding will be in the eating and that will be if the case they present will convince government ministers to accede to the request for more funding.
- it is not a flippant request based on self interest designed to keep the investigation team in work ... they've all got jobs anyway
- they are professionals who, when or if they reach the end of the road ... will tidy up ... call it quits for the time being ... and move on to the next job
- the fact the request has been made for further funding strongly suggests they think it is worthwhile continuing with Madeleine's case
- the fact the request for further funding has been made strongly suggests they have information which will justify the request for the continuation of the search for Madeleine
Do I sniff the ordure of yet another letter writing campaign of objection to any positive glimmer of news or hope concerning Madeleine McCann? The "good work" must be kept going it seems so why not? Although in my opinion on pondering why the vitriol aimed at any positive moves on behalf of this little girl ... one really does have to question the motives behind it all.
G-unit why did you include Metodo 3 in this list?
"She speaks to Rob after another 6 years and reveals new information. Firstly, an email in 2008 to the McCann site wherein she refers to the Nerja sighting. I can find no reports of that sighting until 2012 though. She also says that a Portuguese policeman contacted her after she contacted the BBC in 2007. She now says she reported her sighting to the Portuguese police, Metodo 3 and Sky."
Your post 261I have asked her again and she has never been contacted or had real contact with Metodo 3 but she had "heard of them". [I was surprised she had heard of them.]
I reported to the Portuguese police, the Gibraltarian Police, the BBC and Metodo 3
I has asked her again and she has never been contacted or had real contact with Metodo 3 but she had heard of them.
"I was one of the viewers of GMTV who heard the very original appeal on the morning of the 4th May. I live in Gibraltar which is a very safe place and the fact that such a thing could happen fairly near to here seemed to make it more real for me. I followed the case on Sky and had Madeleine very much in my mind when that very weekend Sun 6th and Mon 7th May 2007, I went with my family to a campsite near Marbella for the bank holiday weekend, where I saw a little girl who looked very like Madeleine in strange circumstances, which I reported to the Portuguese police, the Gibraltarian Police, the BBC and Metodo 3 and no-one has ever come back to me to assure me that my sighting has been followed up and ruled out. The Portuguese Police did ring me to ask some detail but said that they would look into it and that they had several hundred leads to follow up.
That email was written back in 2008 so all those things had happened prior to that. I now get the impression she might have rung Motodo 3 and left information on a type of phone message thing, but there was a documentary about them and they never even checked those hotlines.
When she comes back on line I will ask her if that was the case? It is basically what she is saying now - she left messages at all of those places but no one (bar the PJ) got back to her, and she even felt let down by the response of the PJ officer over the phone.
So no one took her seriously she claims. I wonder why that is because the PJ were getting a lot of flack I feel it rather strange they wouldn't want to solve this case. In fact I feel the whole story rather strange. I mean could she not have called out the childs name, and the child allegedly not being in a happy mood and distant and wearing dirty clothes - do children not wear dirty clothes camping?We are not all the same. Some might have called out her name, and others wouldn't. We can't undo what was done. Karen tried the best the way she did trying to get help through the official channels.
The picture painted by the parents is: Madeleine would give her 'abductor' her penny's worth meaning a bit of cheek and challenge them in some way. as she did her parents allegedly.
We are not all the same. Some might have called out her name, and others wouldn't. We can't undo what was done. Karen tried the best the way she did trying to get help through the official channels.
And you must admit she did it fast. I was looking at the incident at Barcelona with the Victoria Beckham lady and those men didn't report it for over two years!
It was so hot kids were basically running around undressed but not this girl.
We don't know what had happened prior to this. Was she still drugged, had she had an accident? We don't know. It looked like Madeleine but she was NOT behaving normal.
And now we know about it, and I'm trying to think is there anything that still can be done to sort it out?
Even Karen expressed concern that they just let someone brush it off by saying it was my daughter. (That was on a Skype conversation and no recording was made.) You have to take my word for that sorry.
I have asked her again and she has never been contacted or had real contact with Metodo 3 but she had "heard of them". [I was surprised she had heard of them.]
In the email sent to Kate and Gerry:
"I was one of the viewers of GMTV who heard the very original appeal on the morning of the 4th May. I live in Gibraltar which is a very safe place and the fact that such a thing could happen fairly near to here seemed to make it more real for me. I followed the case on Sky and had Madeleine very much in my mind when that very weekend Sun 6th and Mon 7th May 2007, I went with my family to a campsite near Marbella for the bank holiday weekend, where I saw a little girl who looked very like Madeleine in strange circumstances, which I reported to the Portuguese police, the Gibraltarian Police, the BBC and Metodo 3 and no-one has ever come back to me to assure me that my sighting has been followed up and ruled out. The Portuguese Police did ring me to ask some detail but said that they would look into it and that they had several hundred leads to follow up." end quote.
That email was written back in 2008, so all those things had happened prior to that. I now get the impression she might have rung Metodo 3 and left information on a type of phone message thing. There was a documentary about them and it was stated they never even checked those hotlines.
When she comes back on line I will ask her if that was the case? It is basically what she is saying now - she left messages at all of those places but no one (bar the PJ) got back to her, and she even felt let down by the response of the PJ officer over the phone.
What response did she get from the parents. She contacted them you said?She didn't get a direct personal response but in the newspaper article it stated she did the right thing.
The ones who spent money on searching because they didn't trust the authorities seem to have been ignoring leads themselves, as were their PI's. All the publicity was wasted if people were ignored when they got in touch, wasn't it?Most people might think Karsten was cleared. It was shocking to hear the messages to Metodo 3 were ignored. The whole thing was too complex for everyone TBH.
Most people might think Karsten was cleared. It was shocking to hear the messages to Metodo 3 were ignored. The whole thing was too complex for everyone TBH.It was when I questioned Karen about the lady who was with Karsten then things became real interesting as she described a Victoria Beckham lookalike. I am awaiting for further responses from Karen regarding this, but what I noticed for the last 11 years is that no one had mentioned or questioned the woman involved.
It was when I questioned Karen about the lady who was with Karsten then things became real interesting as she described a Victoria Beckham lookalike. I am awaiting for further responses from Karen regarding this, but what I noticed for the last 11 years is that no one had mentioned or questioned the woman involved.
I have covered some of the Barcelona incident http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3138.0
There's one sighting in the case that just won't go away; the one by the Smiths. All else is dross in my opinion.Look the Smith's sighting is at 10:00 PM on the 3rd. If that was a living girl being carried what happened to her the day after? And the day after that for the last 11 years? Time isn't going to stand still.
But despite filing a report with both British and Spanish police at the time, giving descriptions and a car numberplate, Sisson, who lives in Gibraltar, is certain the sighting was never investigated.What I would want to know is the order of arriving.
Intriguingly The Olive Press has now managed to locate details of a German family – under the name ‘Karsten Meyer’ – who did indeed check into the Cabopino campsite, near Fuengirola, three days after Maddie disappeared.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even more intriguingly, records from the campsite show that the couple actually paid a supplement on arrival on May 6 for an ‘extra child’ having originally booked themselves in as one family.
They had a blue Mercedes Vita van and were towing a caravan.
A numberplate recorded by the campsite, which began ‘BE’ with five letters has not been used in Germany since 1974, although the first Vita van’s were only manufactured in 1996.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“But this is the first we have heard about any possible Maddie sighting here and police have certainly never been in touch.”
It is this discrepancy that has so irritated Sisson, who this week once again contacted UK police investigating the case.
“There was something strange about it all,” explained the Durham-born artist, who explained that the couple were of slim build and looked to be in their late thirties.
“It was like the girl was alienated and completely different to her family. It really was most peculiar,” said Sisson.
“She was sat on her own, not playing but just standing swaying as if in a dream. She looked really out of it.”
She continued: “It was also strange that they also had two toddlers, with curly blond hair, eerily like Sean and Amelie.
“And there were children’s toys, a bike and rollerblades around the caravan for a girl her age, so I had the impression maybe they had lost a girl and seen Maddie and wanted to replace her,” she added.
“I deliberately went to look at the girl again the next day and she was wearing the same clothes as the day before even though it was 27 degrees heat.
“A mother would know that this was a strange thing as children of that age go through so many clothes and love to strip off in the heat.
“I have a little girl myself who is just a year older than Maddie; it makes me think about it even more.”
She continued: “At one point the girl started to move towards the pool to play with other children and the lady came and got her and lead her back by the hand.
“She obviously did not want her playing with the other kids.”
Sisson had been on holiday with her husband Richard, a buyer for an electrical business in Gibraltar, when she first set eyes on the girl.
So convinced was she that it could be Maddie she actually made a two hour round trip a week later to check the family out again.
“I literally could not sleep, it haunted me and I decided to drive back to have a second look,” she said.
“It definitely looked like her, and again I contacted Crimestoppers and even my local Gibraltarian police, but nothing seems to have been done.”
The campsite confirmed that a Karsten Mayer had stayed there from May 6 to May 18, 2007.
As well as confirming the car number plate and a date of birth from 1970, they were also able to furnish a passport or ID number.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/05/08/did-german-couple-snatch-maddie-mccann/
Rob, the police traced this man using the number plate of his car, he give his real name in the campsite. Would he have done that?I don't think we have enough information to answer those questions.
It is a bit odd that he had to add a child on for his holiday - Even more intriguingly, records from the campsite show that the couple actually paid a supplement on arrival on May 6 for an ‘extra child’ having originally booked themselves in as one family.
Though I expect he had a reason for that. Did the police actually see his daughter?
What I would want to know is the order of arriving.In order to get a better understanding of the above issues I contacted Karen Sisson again.
What day did the Sisson family arrive?
what day did the Mayer family arrive?
Which family set up in the camp before the other?
Karen talked of toys around the caravan which made it seem more of a static site.
"“And there were children’s toys, a bike and rollerblades around the caravan for a girl her age, so I had the impression maybe they had lost a girl and seen Maddie and wanted to replace her,” she added."
EXCLUSIVE By Wendy Williams and Jon Clarke in Cabopino The Olive Press.
"Well outside the camper van there were crates of possessions and children's bikes etc, a table and chairs etc. This seemed more permanent than a holiday, as if they had been there a while or moved around camp sites. It was more than just holiday equipment." This is what Karen told me. I'm just a bit unsure who was using the camper van.
G-unit will you critically analyse those dates please?
My initial reaction is that the Barcelona sighting of the Victoria Beckham lookalike no longer clashes with this sighting by Karen Sisson.
Karen saw the family on 6th and again on 7th. She was there 'for the weekend'. As the 7th was Bank Holiday Monday in Gibraltar I assume her husband would have returned to work on 8th.It is one hell of a drive if someone drove from Barcelona at Camping Cabopino, as you say a 10 hour drive. Notice: did you see Karen changed her observation dates from "6th and 7th" to the "7th and the 8th"? "K: It was the afternoon I saw them when we went to the pool On the 8th"
Barcelona is a ten hour drive from the campsite. The woman would have had to leave early afternoon on 6th to be in Barcelona at 2am on 7th. The story about the woman in Barcelona was very unreliable too.
I don't think either story has any significance.
Karen Sisson saw the girl on 6th in Marbella, three days after her disappearance. It's too late for her to change her story now in my opinion.I will make further enquiries to see if there is a way to be certain. To me the story as it was first pointed out had faults for family appeared to have kids toys there but no child, then a child turns up but she isn't fitting in.
In order to get a better understanding of the above issues I contacted Karen Sisson again.
My questions to Karen:
"Hi Karen,
I hope things are going well, over there.
One minor thing to help me get the picture in my mind, what I would want to know is the order of arriving.
What day did the Sisson family arrive?
What day did the Mayer family arrive?
Which family set up in the camp before the other?
You talk of lots of toys around their caravan which gives me the impression they were there longer than you.
"On May 6, a German family arrived with a caravan." Did you see them arrive?
You said "Well outside the camper van there were crates of possessions and children's bikes etc, a table and chairs etc. This seemed more permanent than a holiday, as if they had been there a while or moved around camp sites. It was more than just holiday equipment."
Which vehicle was the camper van? Karsten Mercedes was towing a caravan wasn't it?"
Karen's K and Robs R interaction:
K: Hi the camper van comment was me getting the terminology wrong, it was a caravan that was towed. It was already there when we got there. The olive press uncovered the photo of their booking in, did that have their date on it, my arrival date was the one on my email on my letter to royal Gib police that I sent you.
R: Ok it was already there when you got there, and you think they had been there for a while because of the amount of toys around their site. (that is how I understand you.)
K: What I meant was they had a whole area out front with crates of stuff tables and chairs etc, more like if you were staying somewhere for a while or were travelling, around for a while
More than we ever took anywhere
R: So I want to know what day you arrived? I'll look at the email.
K: It's a long time ago now the letter I sent is more reliable than my memory
R: I can understand the two times you saw her "Whilst at the campsite I passed a young girl both on Sunday 6th May and Monday 7th May who looked remarkably like Madeleine."
K: I remember it was a bank holiday that weekend for Gibraltar
That's why we would have still been there on a Monday
R: I'm trying to tie your sighting to that other one.
K: What date was that other one again
R: I quickly looked through the emails and I didn't see a date of arrival.
K: I say the sunday
R: What do you think this means "Now Brit cops have been told the family paid extra for bringing one child more
than expected when they arrived at the site on May 6."?
K: That refers to the booking in when they arrived at cabopino
R: I need your sighting dates to be one day later or theirs one day earlier
K: They must have arrived at cabopino on the 6th
R: Well they certainly paid for an extra child from the 6th
K: What is the date of the other sighting, which one are you referring to
R: I'll get it from the website.
K: If it's the Spanish one, remember they could have checked the van in on the sat and then driven the people carrier out into Spain for the day on the sat
R: "The timing of this incident does not quite fit with Karen's observations or does it? This incident Barcelona was in the early hours of May 7th. Maybe it does if Karen saw her later in the day on the 7th. Could you get from Barcelona to Camping Cabopino in that time? Karen Sisson said in a letter to the McCanns in 2008 "Whilst at the campsite I passed a young girl both on Sunday 6th May and Monday 7th May who looked remarkably like Madeleine""
K: Yes I saw the girl in the evening if the 7th
Around 6pm ish
I didn't see the parents on the 7th she was on her own outside the van
R: well could you have seen her the next day as well on the morning of eighth?
K: It was the afternoon I saw them when we went to the pool
On the 8th
They were in a different part of the site to us
R: OK so you dates could be late on the 7th and on the afternoon of the 8th by the pool.
K: We were by the pool, they were parked next to that area,
R: OK But if they drove to Barcelona to pick up a girl , did you ever notice that the blue people mover was not with the caravan? Were they attached or separated?
K: Sorry Robert I have to get on I have a lot to do today
R: When you get time. Please.
Thank you for that bit. Very good.
K: The people carrier was separated yes, it was next to the plot
They could have driven in and out of the campsite at any time
That's what everyone did
R: Thank you....etc
I'm not convinced this is MBM. Re the adding a child this is known throughout the camping and caravan cubs. we have a cottage in Corwall we have access to for 6 weeks of the year, more often than not we have 'visitors' coming for one or two nights sometimes more. nothing sinister about that at all, AND when we were children we wore play clothes - climbed trees and rolled on the grass and jumped in puddles! very dirty happy children we all were.To me you've missed the points she made, but the reply was appreciated.
My communication with Karen Sisson is continuing at this stage. She actually offered some comment about the adults that were with the girl she thought was Madeleine McCann.
"This photo of Adrian and his wife Jan look like older versions of the couple I saw at the campsite." https://scontent.fakl3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/28233122_1784103254941943_168826273_n.jpg?oh=1467c528820325daac4b055d59f2ee6f&oe=5A8D6A91
Adrian and Jan who?Mayer.