Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 12477 times)

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Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #195 on: August 23, 2017, 08:59:30 PM »
One of the two first police responders to the scene, Constable Kim Stephenson, gave evidence, "I was immediately struck by the magazine on its narrow edge right next to Mr Bain's hand. Right away I thought something wasn't right. When I think about the case that's what I think about".

David's "weeping and wailing" also made him suspicious, he says.




Dunedin police constable Kim Stephenson giving evidence at the second trial in 2009.  PC Stephenson was
one of two officers initially called to the scene.




The magazine belonging to the murder weapon was found by first responders sitting on its edge by Robin
Bain's hand.


It's a curved 10 round magazine as well, standing like a soldier to attention on its convex edge.  How about that for self-righting balance!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 09:04:29 PM by Myster »

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #196 on: August 23, 2017, 09:31:02 PM »
Winchester rifle curved 10 round magazine...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 04:52:47 AM by Myster »

Offline John

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #197 on: August 23, 2017, 09:43:19 PM »
Were either of the suspects fingers tested for GSR?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes egregious malfeasance by public officials.
The truth never changes with the passage of time.


Offline John

A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes egregious malfeasance by public officials.
The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2017, 12:25:51 PM »
One of the two first police responders to the scene, Constable Kim Stephenson, gave evidence, "I was immediately struck by the magazine on its narrow edge right next to Mr Bain's hand. Right away I thought something wasn't right. When I think about the case that's what I think about".

David's "weeping and wailing" also made him suspicious, he says.




Dunedin police constable Kim Stephenson giving evidence at the second trial in 2009.  PC Stephenson was
one of two officers initially called to the scene.




The magazine belonging to the murder weapon was found by first responders sitting on its edge by Robin
Bain's hand.

"The Curious Placement of the empty 10 shot magazine":

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8397.msg418656#msg418656

Assuming DB is innocent so few people will witness another taking on board such devastating news that it is surely difficult to get a handle on a 'normal' response.  From Justice Binnie's report:

"6. David Bain “Feigned A Fit” On The Morning Of 20 June As Proof Of Guilt

455. A couple of Police officers and ambulance personnel suggested that on the morning of
20 June David Bain was faking an emotional breakdown to paint himself as a victim rather than
the perpetrator.

456. The defence’s position is that David Bain did not feign a “fit”, but simply fainted, which
was not unexpected in the circumstances.

457. Numerous witnesses did not regard David Bain’s behaviour as contrived. The
undertaker Derrick Hope said, contrary to Bain family members who came and gave evidence
against David, that “David was in deep shock, emotionless, zombie like”267 “he was in even
deeper shock on Thursday, still zombie like”268 and “people act differently in death, there is no
set pattern”. The Telecom operator Wilblim269 said there was a lot of groaning and thought the
caller “must be on drugs or was drunk”. Dr Alex Dempster who saw David Bain before noon on
June 20 said “David Bain looked as if he was in a catatonic state, that is frozen in movement and
attitude.”270 Constable Stapp said “he was in real distress ... sounding hysterical, particularly
after he recovered from fainting” (emphasis added) and Constable Stephen described him as
“convulsing and having passed out”.

458. Dr Brinded considered that post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) explained David’s
conduct on the morning on 20 June as well as his partial memory loss. Dr Brinded freely
acknowledged that PTSD affects perpetrators as well as victims. The point however is that
David Bain’s “fainting” spell the morning after the killing of his family does not support the
suggestion that he was putting on a performance to mislead the investigators.

459. I accept the view that David Bain simply fainted. The whole issue is not of great
probative value in any event. Given the conflict of evidence it cannot be said the episode tips
the balance one way or the other. I am certainly not prepared to accept the assertion of the
Crown Law Office that on the morning of 20 June David Bain “feigned” a fit and otherwise put
on an artificial display of emotion designed to dupe the Police into thinking him innocent, as
part of an ingenious but incompetent cover-up

Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #201 on: August 24, 2017, 12:32:28 PM »
Winchester rifle curved 10 round magazine...

Two mags used: 10 round and 5 round found attached to rifle.  All 10 bullets were recovered:

MB = 1 from 10 mag
SB = 2? from 10 mag
LB = 3 from 10 mag
AB = ? from 10 mag

Where were the 10 recovered from? Victims?  Exited?  Unspent/misfired?

RB = 1 from 5 mag.  Were 4 remaining found in mag?
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #202 on: August 24, 2017, 12:48:17 PM »
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/2307272/No-gunshot-residue-found-on-Robin-Bain

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/forensic-scientist-couldnt-find-gunshot-residue

Hang on, hang on, hang on...

Justice Binnie covers GSR under the heading:

CHAPTER XVI:FAILURE TO TAKE PROPER STEPS TO INVESTIGATE INFORMATION ACTUALLY POSSESSED BY THE POLICE IN JUNE 1994 REGARDING THE POSSIBILITY OF DAVID BAIN’S INNOCENCE

(iii) Failure to test both Robin’s body and David promptly for firearm discharge residue

542. It is absolutely basic Police work in a firearms case, as laid out in the Detectives Manual
to preserve and test samples from a suspect’s hands and clothing for firearms discharge residue
(FDR). This will indicate if a person has recently fired a firearm. As explained in the Joint
Police/Police Complaints Authority Report (1997), the test involves “checking suspects for
discharge residue blown back on to [mainly] the hand which held the weapon. It is to be
expected in ideal conditions that minute particles could still be found on a live and active person
up to two/three hours after shooting occurred – provided the firer has not washed since. On a
dead body, the dust could remain much longer because it is only lost through movement.” (para
134)

543. The Police say they did not test David Bain the morning of 20 June because he said he
washed his hands to remove newsprint ink. This is curious. It must be rare for the Police not
to do a test because the individual concerned assures them that nothing of interest to the
prosecution will be found.

544. If the test had been done quickly on David and proved negative, it might have been of
assistance to establish his innocence. On the other hand, if FDR were found on Robin’s hands,
it would be an important indicator of suicide and would have been of great importance to the
defence. On the prosecution theory there would be no FDR on Robin’s hands.

545. Det. Sr Sgt Doyle was asked why Police had not checked David’s hands for firearms
residue after locating him in his room at 65 Every Street. He suggested it would have been
“insensitive” to do the test as David was then considered a victim.296 Yet by 11.00 am or so,
David Bain was at the Police station being strip searched and tested for FDR by Dr Pryde, who
found nothing positive.

546. Although Robin’s body had been properly wrapped in plastic when removed to the
mortuary, his hands were not separately bagged as required by the Detective Manual and the
296 Det. Sgt Doyle explains:
A. Exactly. Also – like as far as the Police were concerned, that morning David Bain was a victim of coming home
and finding this situation. I cannot in my own mind even imagine a Police officer with any sensitivity suddenly
going to him and saying, hey listen David we want to test your hands for firearm discharge residue within three
hours of us arriving at the house and not knowing the full facts. It’s just no possible.
Q. He was subjected to very invasive tests of the body wasn’t he? Swabs taken?
A. He was examined by a doctor.
Q. When was that done?
A. Later that day.
Q. It involves strip searching, swabs of intimate body parts, doesn’t it?
A. There are a number of tests, yes, all of those included.
Q. All of those are done?
A. Yes. (Emphasis added) (Retrial pages 146-50)
- 165 -
plastic sheeting (which might have collected any residue shaken loose in transit) was thrown
away. The Joint Police/Police Complaints Authority Report (1997) was critical of this
investigative failure:
“Again, with the benefit of hindsight, we find that earlier consideration
should have been given to preserving Robin’s hands and clothing for
firearm residue testing. At the very least his hands and lower arms
should have been enclosed in plastic/paper bags at the earlier
opportunity. Those containers should have been subsequently
examined for residue as should the upper outer clothing of David and
Robin. (para 142)

547. I do not accept that this was only clear “with the benefit of hindsight.” The procedure
was specifically laid down in the Detective Manual. Det. Sr Sgt Doyle accepted that this breach
of standard procedure was a Police responsibility.
A. Yes, yes, Detective Lodge. Detective Lodge had that
responsibility and he’s an experienced detective, he should
have, he should have done that.297
Comment: the Bain complaint is justified. Firearms Discharge Residue was perhaps David Bain’s
best hope of establishing Robin to be the murderer. Of course, the presence of FDR on David
might have been similarly helpful to the prosecution. The Crown Law Office says it is impossible
to say what the results of such tests would have been. This is true, but it was the failure of the
Police to do such basic tests in breach of the Detective Manual that created this unsatisfactory
situation.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:50:48 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #203 on: August 24, 2017, 01:01:20 PM »
Silly me!... found Greg Dunne's testimony again... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V39E5LGbbEw&t=143s

and... https://youtu.be/sIhQJCJCZtk?t=4m

Thanks.  Were DB's police interviews recorded? 

This doesn't seem to have formed part of the prosecution case against DB?  It's important to clarify because DB claimed he checked SB for life, hence 'innocent' transfer of blood, and heard LB "gurgling" which is at odds with the emergency call and claims from his aunt.
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #204 on: August 25, 2017, 12:19:42 AM »
Robin Bain was a high standing Mason. Masonry was prevalent in Dunedin, my late father in law who lived in Dunedin had paraphernalia not allowed to be seen by family. When I stray into discussion of quasi cultism you should understand it is serious, because I aver clubs, religions, cults and so on.

This is an important key to the case, including the straightforward reason his fingerprints were (allegedly) not found on the gun.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #205 on: August 25, 2017, 06:52:28 AM »
Robin Bain was a high standing Mason. Masonry was prevalent in Dunedin, my late father in law who lived in Dunedin had paraphernalia not allowed to be seen by family. When I stray into discussion of quasi cultism you should understand it is serious, because I aver clubs, religions, cults and so on.

This is an important key to the case, including the straightforward reason his fingerprints were (allegedly) not found on the gun.

That's right... when all else fails, bring on a Masonic conspiracy theory.


Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #206 on: August 25, 2017, 08:36:25 AM »
That's right... when all else fails, bring on a Masonic conspiracy theory.
Which is why I added the rider.
But here is a straightforward question.
Did Killer wear gloves?
We should workshop this question until a consensus is arrived at.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #207 on: August 25, 2017, 02:33:44 PM »
Robin Bain was a high standing Mason. Masonry was prevalent in Dunedin, my late father in law who lived in Dunedin had paraphernalia not allowed to be seen by family. When I stray into discussion of quasi cultism you should understand it is serious, because I aver clubs, religions, cults and so on.

This is an important key to the case, including the straightforward reason his fingerprints were (allegedly) not found on the gun.

Samson I have had contact with a forensic scientist and arguably the world's expert on fingerprints in connection with JB's case.  I was told latent fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms due to the coating known as bluing.  So the fact DB's prints were on the rifle but not RB's is not unusual.  I would like to see more evidence about the blood patterns on the opera gloves to determine whether the blood found on them was from direct contact with a source of blood or transferred.  Could the opera gloves be a sort of red herring in that they were simply hanging around amongst the debris of SB's room and became blood stained during the struggle rather than being worn by the perp? 

In JB's case we have one fingerprint from each of JB and SC on the rifle.  Much was woven into JM's testimony about gloves falling off but in reality the fingerprints found on the rifle support JB's earlier use and SC also handling the rifle. 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 02:35:54 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #208 on: August 25, 2017, 09:56:30 PM »
Samson I have had contact with a forensic scientist and arguably the world's expert on fingerprints in connection with JB's case.  I was told latent fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms due to the coating known as bluing.  So the fact DB's prints were on the rifle but not RB's is not unusual.  I would like to see more evidence about the blood patterns on the opera gloves to determine whether the blood found on them was from direct contact with a source of blood or transferred.  Could the opera gloves be a sort of red herring in that they were simply hanging around amongst the debris of SB's room and became blood stained during the struggle rather than being worn by the perp? 

In JB's case we have one fingerprint from each of JB and SC on the rifle.  Much was woven into JM's testimony about gloves falling off but in reality the fingerprints found on the rifle support JB's earlier use and SC also handling the rifle.
The gloves represent a shield between the man and the deed. This seems credible. Binnie points out Robin could wear David's gloves but not David wear Robins as an aside. Robin would fetch the gloves nd gun at the same time from David's room. After killing the family he would lean the gun against the wall and never touch the gun stock again in the suicide motion. It has never been suggested the gloves were incidental, they were worn, so there is a clear reason to be sought.

Offline John

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #209 on: September 10, 2017, 02:09:45 PM »
The gloves represent a shield between the man and the deed. This seems credible. Binnie points out Robin could wear David's gloves but not David wear Robins as an aside. Robin would fetch the gloves nd gun at the same time from David's room. After killing the family he would lean the gun against the wall and never touch the gun stock again in the suicide motion. It has never been suggested the gloves were incidental, they were worn, so there is a clear reason to be sought.

And I would add that anyone contemplating murder suicide will not be concerned with wearing gloves or hiding evidence. 
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes egregious malfeasance by public officials.
The truth never changes with the passage of time.