Author Topic: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 49843 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #180 on: October 31, 2016, 05:31:13 AM »
From Amarals book.  and  IMO a clear attempt to convince his readers that calpol was used on the children as a sedative.

Quote
One of the police officers who went to the McCanns' home in England, reported that a medical monitoring chart for Madeleine was posted in the kitchen. This referred to her sleep problems and made clear that she was waking several times in the night. The paternal grandfather stated that Kate gave the little girl - and also the twins - Calpol, a medication designed to facilitate falling asleep. That seems to be a common practice in Great Britain; they even talk about a "Calpol generation." In recent years, the possible presence of an antihistamine with sedative effects in Calpol has aroused great controversy. Recently, the same laboratory put Calpol Night on the market, whose ingredients clearly list that it contains an antihistamine.

The mother admits having taken some to Portugal. She insists though that there is no calming effect, its being composed solely of paracetamol, and that she did not give any of it to her daughter during the holiday. At the time of her disappearance, Madeleine was sleeping in the same room as the twins. The latter, in spite of the noise, the mother's screaming and the comings and goings, did not wake up, as if they had been given sedatives. Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?
Unquote

Anyone who can claim the above is not a deliberate attempt to convince his readers that Kate sedated her children with Calpol needs to explain what he was attempting to do.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me to wonder if and with what the children were sedated (as Kate McCann suggested).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 10:50:23 AM by John »
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Offline Benice

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #181 on: October 31, 2016, 10:25:58 AM »
It seems perfectly reasonable to me to wonder if and with what the children were sedated (as Kate McCann suggested).

But Amaral wasn't just 'wondering' if Madeleine had been sedated - he was blatantly insinuating to his readers that not only had she been sedated with Calpol - but that it was Kate who had sedated her. 

If there is any other interpretation of that part of his book - then what is it?

IMO

 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #182 on: October 31, 2016, 11:56:18 AM »
But Amaral wasn't just 'wondering' if Madeleine had been sedated - he was blatantly insinuating to his readers that not only had she been sedated with Calpol - but that it was Kate who had sedated her. 

If there is any other interpretation of that part of his book - then what is it?

IMO

 

Why, seemingly, does there always have to be some interpretation other than that of face value?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Angelo222

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #183 on: October 31, 2016, 12:25:06 PM »
Please cite the conviction for "rogue cop" ta

Rogue coos are defined by multiples of wrong doing in their job

please cite for him personally

That's correct, one swallow doesn't maketh a summer!!

Gonc made an error of judgement in altering the police log in order to protect his subordinates.  With his previous record he is most certainly not a rogue cop or a criminal and that my dears is why he was not immediately sacked.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #184 on: October 31, 2016, 02:25:38 PM »
A brief reminder, yet again.

She had already confessed to the crime.

The PJ were trying to find Joanna's body.

The woman and her brother remain convicted murderers.

In the biggest miscarriage of justice in Portugal since God was a lad, according to some, against which there has been no successful appeal.................. &%+((£
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #185 on: October 31, 2016, 02:51:08 PM »
In the biggest miscarriage of justice in Portugal since God was a lad, according to some, against which there has been no successful appeal.................. &%+((£

Amaral's Book

quote "Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?"

Now what do we have here, Oh yes, a question mark wow. Some people put them at the end of sentences as they are asking a question. What Amaral meant to say was Kate gave the calpol what killed her daughter. OR maybe not. Putting it all in context;

It was reported that there was a lot of noise in that room, parents howling, people comings and goings and the children slept throught this  though it has been noted that the children did habitually wake up through the night, even Kate checked to see if the twins were breathing. So Amaral is asking a question is there a chance someone had sedated the children. HE DOES NOT NAME KATE at all. He does not insinuate anything, he asks can there be a connection. Yeah and it is what police do... they ask questions Duh.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 10:53:42 AM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Benice

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #186 on: October 31, 2016, 03:55:12 PM »
That's correct, one swallow doesn't maketh a summer!!

Gonc made an error of judgement in altering the police log in order to protect his subordinates.  With his previous record he is most certainly not a rogue cop or a criminal and that my dears is why he was not immediately sacked.

As I said to John a couple of days ago:

IMO any policeman who abuses his position to deliberately pervert the course of justice by committing a crime (no matter what that crime is) which results in the successful protection of criminals, or the conviction of an innocent person, is a rogue policeman - and should not be in the police force.

Torture would come top of my list as the most serious crime a policeman can commit against the people they are supposed to be protecting.

You say that Amaral changed a timesheet as if that was so minor it's hardly worth mentioning, but completely ignore his motives for doing so.

Fortunately the PT courts recognised and understood the serious nature of his crime which was then duly reflected in his sentence.

AIMHO


Indeed, until now on this very forum a gofund me page is being set up by supporters to have Amaral disected and burned at the steak and the other 30 bob is for the appeal for immediate release of the convicted Murderers...

Sorry that may be another supporters forum.... 8(>((

Amaral's Book

quote "Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?"

Now what do we have here, Oh yes, a question mark wow. Some people put them at the end of sentences as they are asking a question. What Amaral meant to say was Kate gave the calpol what killed her daughter. OR maybe not. Putting it all in context;

It was reported that there was a lot of noise in that room, parents howling, people comings and goings and the children slept throught this  though it has been noted that the children did habitually wake up through the night, even Kate checked to see if the twins were breathing. So Amaral is asking a question is there a chance someone had sedated the children. HE DOES NOT NAME KATE at all. He does not insinuate anything, he asks can there be a connection. Yeah and it is what police do... they ask questions Duh.

A typical example (in red)  of taking a few words out of context so that a different meaning can be given to them -other than their true meaning which is apparent when they are left in context.

Anyone who thinks from the following that Amaral is not talking about Kate McCann or making any insinuations in her direction is seriously deluding themselves imo.

The ability of some to convince themselves that black is actually white never ceases to amaze me.

AIMO


Quote

One of the police officers who went to the McCanns' home in England, reported that a medical monitoring chart for Madeleine was posted in the kitchen. This referred to her sleep problems and made clear that she was waking several times in the night. The paternal grandfather stated that Kate gave the little girl - and also the twins - Calpol, a medication designed to facilitate falling asleep. That seems to be a common practice in Great Britain; they even talk about a "Calpol generation." In recent years, the possible presence of an antihistamine with sedative effects in Calpol has aroused great controversy. Recently, the same laboratory put Calpol Night on the market, whose ingredients clearly list that it contains an antihistamine.

The mother admits having taken some to Portugal. She insists though that there is no calming effect, its being composed solely of paracetamol, and that she did not give any of it to her daughter during the holiday. At the time of her disappearance, Madeleine was sleeping in the same room as the twins. The latter, in spite of the noise, the mother's screaming and the comings and goings, did not wake up, as if they had been given sedatives.Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?
Unquote

« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 07:01:47 AM by Slartibartfast »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline xtina

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #187 on: November 01, 2016, 10:37:35 AM »
If you wanted Madeleine to get justice you would want a Police Officer who could conduct a proper investigation.

I don't think Amaral should have been in charge of the investigation as he was an Arguido.     He lied in court.

Then he accused the McCann's of all sorts of ludicrous things in his book in order to turn the public against them and strengthen his theory that they were guilty of hiding Madeleine's body.


Right .......the thing is here you are all so happy to blame G A...put his head on the chopping block .....fall guy ...whatever....

you said you don't think G A should have been in charge .....

the mccs was ...

in charge of their children and well being ...and safety...

in charge of the decision........ to leave them alone....... .at risk....

in charge of .three small children .....in a unlocked room ..in a foreign country.....

The mccs were in charge....the children were dependent on them.... to keep them safe........... .......not G A.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 01:15:56 PM by John »
Always listen to both sides of the story before you judge.

The first storyteller you will always find has modified the story, for there benefit BE WISE.

Offline carlymichelle

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #188 on: November 01, 2016, 10:46:35 AM »

Right .......the thing is here you are all so happy to blame G A...put his head on the chopping block .....fall guy ...whatever....

you said you don't think G A should have been in charge .....

the mccs was ...

in charge of their children and well being ...and safety...

in charge of the decision........ to leave them alone....... .at risk....

in charge of .three small children .....in a unlocked room ..in a foreign country.....

The mccs were in charge....the children were dependent on them.... to keep them safe........... .......not G A.

totally agree the mccans  are responsible for maddies fate not  GA
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 01:16:21 PM by John »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #189 on: November 01, 2016, 11:05:01 AM »
But Amaral wasn't just 'wondering' if Madeleine had been sedated - he was blatantly insinuating to his readers that not only had she been sedated with Calpol - but that it was Kate who had sedated her. 

If there is any other interpretation of that part of his book - then what is it?

IMO

 

The night of the hurricane in England, 1987, I was at home at my parents' house and slept right through it.  Dad brought me a cup of tea next morning and was amazed.  I didn't know the first thing about it till he told me.

I hadn't been drinking and I was certainly not drugged.

I just slept right through.

Perhaps a little unusual, but scarcely outside bounds of 'normal'.


Offline John

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #190 on: November 01, 2016, 11:09:01 AM »
What a thoughtless response Slarti.  Dr Ana proved herself a very fine governor, putting herself on the line by supporting Justice for her prisoner against the PJ; a risky thing to do. No person is at work every hour of the day, but to remove  a prisoner would surely need the permission of the governor.  Procedures appear to have been ignored by the PJ.

Seems the Portimao PJ thought themselves above procedures?



Leonor was only admitted to Odemira Prison the previouxs day .... and in what must have seemed like the middle of the night, she was bundled away WITHOUT the Governors permissiion.  Then NOT returned for 2 days.   
It is quite a long journey from Odemira to Faro, at a quick estimation about 90 miles along twisting roads, in a police ?van probably going at breakneck speed.

Where have you got the idea that the Torture damage to Leonor could have happened prior to leaving prison ?   It's a cover up for the PJ, shift the blame onto the prison !

Snippet from Marcos Correia's Report dated 8 April 2008.


Subject: Report on police torture of Leonor Cipriano

>> I talked with the Director of Odemira Prison for about one hour. Her name is Ana Maria Calado.
                           
>> During our meeting, Dr Ana Maria surprised me with several new facts. She told me that the Portuguese Judiciara had not even bothered to convey her to a hospital in Faro and never sent a health delegate to the prison to try to prove that the injuries seen in the prison resulted from the alleged suicide attempt the on the stairs.

Another strange fact was that the Portuguese police had chosen Tuesday as the day to question her, coinciding with their week of vacation.

If I were the head of the police, I would never have allowed the behaviour of the Policia Judiciara. They got Leonor Cipriano at 6 o’clock in the morning, and then returned for her in the middle of the night. There was no formal request for this form of interrogation from the Director of the Policia Judiciara.

It was even stranger that, when enquiries began with an internal investigation into the interrogation and torture of Leonor Cipriano by the PJ, a team of two inspectors from Lisbon held a private meeting with her in prison. Their mission was to try to negotiate a sharing of blame between the PJ and the Odemira Prison in relation to the attacks on, and torture of, Leonor.

As a person of integrity, Dr. Ana Calado obviously refused to come to any compromise regarding something for which the establishment for which she was responsible at the time – Odemira prison – had no responsibility for whatsoever.

The Chief Prison Medical Officer said that Leonor Cipriano’s health had got even worse a week after she had been tortured. The blood had accumulated around the eyebrows and became highly inflamed and swollen, making her nearly blind for nearly a month.

My only regret today, said Dr Ana Calado, was that at the time I did not order more photographs to be taken to illustrate Leonor’s poor state of health on admission and immediately afterwards. Dr Ana Maria’s statement added: “I must say that in terms of her attitude and behaviour, Leonor Cipriano is one of the best prisoners that I have had for many years. She has not tried to commit suicide although she had many opportunities to do so after the fateful interrogation. Leonor has always had an excellent relationship with all the prison guards and the other prisoners, which has gone from strength to strength.”

With a touch of humor, Dr Ana Calado added that: “If your car had exploded this morning, I already know who would have been responsible!”.

Marcos Aragão Correia




Full Report in English and Portuguese:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7738.msg362158#msg362158
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:10:38 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #191 on: November 01, 2016, 11:33:45 AM »
Snippet from Marcos Correia's Report dated 8 April 2008.


Subject: Report on police torture of Leonor Cipriano

Another strange fact was that the Portuguese police had chosen Tuesday as the day to question her, coinciding with their week of vacation.

If I were the head of the police, I would never have allowed the behaviour of the Policia Judiciara. They got Leonor Cipriano at 6 o’clock in the morning, and then returned for her in the middle of the night. There was no formal request for this form of interrogation from the Director of the Policia Judiciara.

It was even stranger that, when enquiries began with an internal investigation into the interrogation and torture of Leonor Cipriano by the PJ, a team of two inspectors from Lisbon held a private meeting with her in prison. Their mission was to try to negotiate a sharing of blame between the PJ and the Odemira Prison in relation to the attacks on, and torture of, Leonor.

As a person of integrity, Dr. Ana Calado obviously refused to come to any compromise regarding something for which the establishment for which she was responsible at the time – Odemira prison – had no responsibility for whatsoever.

The Chief Prison Medical Officer said that Leonor Cipriano’s health had got even worse a week after she had been tortured. The blood had accumulated around the eyebrows and became highly inflamed and swollen, making her nearly blind for nearly a month.

My only regret today, said Dr Ana Calado, was that at the time I did not order more photographs to be taken to illustrate Leonor’s poor state of health on admission and immediately afterwards. Dr Ana Maria’s statement added: “I must say that in terms of her attitude and behaviour, Leonor Cipriano is one of the best prisoners that I have had for many years. She has not tried to commit suicide although she had many opportunities to do so after the fateful interrogation. Leonor has always had an excellent relationship with all the prison guards and the other prisoners, which has gone from strength to strength.”

With a touch of humor, Dr Ana Calado added that: “If your car had exploded this morning, I already know who would have been responsible!”.

Marcos Aragão Correia


Full Report in English and Portuguese:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7738.msg362158#msg362158

I think we know from anecdotal evidence that child killers to do not have an easy time in prison and are, on the whole, despised by the general prison population. I believe this is even more so in women's prisons.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:11:26 PM by John »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #192 on: November 01, 2016, 01:12:52 PM »
I think we know from anecdotal evidence that child killers to do not have an easy time in prison and are, on the whole, despised by the general prison population. I believe this is even more so in women's prisons.

It does cast doubt on the account.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline John

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #193 on: November 01, 2016, 01:13:26 PM »
Gonçalo Amaral has in many ways become the patsy or the fallguy but then this came about as a direct consequence of his own actions.

The Portuguese court found Leonor Cipriano guilty of killing her daughter and found proved that she was assaulted/tortured whilst in the care of the Policia Judicial in Faro. What one cannot do is pick and choose what to believe simply because it doesn't sit too well.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:18:00 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Benice

Re: Has Gonçalo Amaral become the fall guy in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #194 on: November 01, 2016, 01:58:57 PM »
The night of the hurricane in England, 1987, I was at home at my parents' house and slept right through it.  Dad brought me a cup of tea next morning and was amazed.  I didn't know the first thing about it till he told me.

I hadn't been drinking and I was certainly not drugged.

I just slept right through.

Perhaps a little unusual, but scarcely outside bounds of 'normal'.

Certainly not for toddlers FB .  I've been at many a wedding/party over the years where toddlers have stayed blissfully asleep in their buggies while an earsplitting DISCO has been blasting out in the same room!
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal