Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on July 11, 2020, 12:10:58 PM
Title: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: John on July 11, 2020, 12:10:58 PM
Police in Portugal search wells in Vila do Bispo
(https://i.imgur.com/wJqlHjr.jpg)
Published 12th July 2020
Portuguese authorities have searched wells as part of their investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, according to reports.
The Mirror reported that police and divers in the Algarve region examined three disused wells in Vila do Bispo for eight hours on Thursday.
The area is around 10 miles from the Praia da Luz resort, where Madeleine disappeared on May 3, 2007.
Multiple investigators were at the scene with specialist diving equipment to examine the wells, with the largest thought to be more than 13 metres deep.
The first activation happened at 16:41:06 on the antenna "Faro Airport". One minute and twenty seconds later the same antenna came to be activated, being followed by the antennae:
"Pedra de ?ua"; "Boliqueime"; "Vila do Bispo"; "Budens" and "Praia da Luz" at 17:31:23, 17:32:27, 19:05:21, 19:10:35 and 19:49:38,
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 12, 2020, 09:19:53 AM
I've noticed a certain reluctance to engage with this topic with the vigour usually displayed by supporters. Perhaps they have nothing to say.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 12, 2020, 09:29:57 AM
I've noticed a certain reluctance to engage with this topic with the vigour usually displayed by supporters. Perhaps they have nothing to say.
you are about right....nothing much to say.....I think its totally irrelevant and will have been looked at by the investigators. I'm far more interested in recent devlopments.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 12, 2020, 09:33:29 AM
The first activation happened at 16:41:06 on the antenna "Faro Airport". One minute and twenty seconds later the same antenna came to be activated, being followed by the antennae:
"Pedra de ?ua"; "Boliqueime"; "Vila do Bispo"; "Budens" and "Praia da Luz" at 17:31:23, 17:32:27, 19:05:21, 19:10:35 and 19:49:38,
What date was it he arrived back from USA? Does he say anything about that journey in his blog? Thanks.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 12, 2020, 09:36:33 AM
"Apart from one family outing in June they had never before visited that area and did not visit it after this cluster on 19th, 26th, 27th, 28th July, 1st, 2nd August."
Perhaps there were spectacular sea views
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 09:46:50 AM
"Apart from one family outing in June they had never before visited that area and did not visit it after this cluster on 19th, 26th, 27th, 28th July, 1st, 2nd August."
Perhaps there were spectacular sea views
Perhaps they were searching for Madeleine on their own as no one else was at that time.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 12, 2020, 09:53:51 AM
"Apart from one family outing in June they had never before visited that area and did not visit it after this cluster on 19th, 26th, 27th, 28th July, 1st, 2nd August."
Perhaps there were spectacular sea views
Possible that he could have gone more times without his phone.
Wasnt gmcc asked if he knew RM and didn't say yes I do or no i don't
Coincidence again that RM first lived in. Vila de Bispo
- That he lives already in Portugal for many years, specifically for 24 years, since he was 17 years old. At the time his family settled in Vila do Bispo his parents having bought a restaurant between Burgau and Boca do Rio, a restaurant they had exploited [run as a business] for about 2 years.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 12, 2020, 10:25:40 AM
"Apart from one family outing in June they had never before visited that area and did not visit it after this cluster on 19th, 26th, 27th, 28th July, 1st, 2nd August."
Perhaps there were spectacular sea views
Were they aware that Harrison was planning to arrive shortly? I tried to read Gerry’s blog but could only find a version of it with only some days highlighted. It doesn’t help that I’m just looking on a phone!!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 12, 2020, 10:45:37 AM
Were they aware that Harrison was planning to arrive shortly? I tried to read Gerry’s blog but could only find a version of it with only some days highlighted. It doesn’t help that I’m just looking on a phone!!
I don't know. Do you think it might be connected ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 12, 2020, 10:47:04 AM
No he doesn’t need to. I was just curious if he had offered a reason for the detour. After all he was often accounting for all sorts in his blog like which shirt he was wearing and what he was doing on certain days.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 12, 2020, 10:54:09 AM
Full text from the PJ files.
The newspapers Correio da Manha 24Horas and Diraio de Noticias being consulted on 23 and 24 July, it was found that Gerald travelled alone on this occasion to Washington, USA.
The return to Portugal occurred on 26th. The first activation happened at 16:41:06 on the antenna "Faro Airport". One minute and twenty seconds later the same antenna came to be activated, being followed by the antennae: "Pedra de ?ua"; "Boliqueime"; "Vila do Bispo"; "Budens" and "Praia da Luz" at 17:31:23, 17:32:27, 19:05:21, 19:10:35 and 19:49:38, respectively.
Kate went to the airport to meet her husband.
Given the [above] records it would seem that Gerald McCann will not have gone directly to the village where he resided while he was in our country, having gone to Vila do Bispo, only then he returned to the referred village at, or before 19:49:38.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 10:54:27 AM
"Apart from one family outing in June they had never before visited that area and did not visit it after this cluster on 19th, 26th, 27th, 28th July, 1st, 2nd August."
Perhaps there were spectacular sea views
23 July 2007 Insp Paiva told the hearing in Lisbon: “Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying. “She said she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there.”
26 July 2007 Gerry returns from Washington 16.42 Faro Aeroporto 17.31 Pedra de Agua 17.32 Bolqueime 19.05 Vila do Bispo 19.10 Budens 19.49 Praia da Luz Centro
The return to Portugal occurred on 26th. The first activation happened at 16:41:06 on the antenna "Faro Airport". One minute and twenty seconds later the same antenna came to be activated, being followed by the antennae: "Pedra de ?ua"; "Boliqueime"; "Vila do Bispo"; "Budens" and "Praia da Luz" at 17:31:23, 17:32:27, 19:05:21, 19:10:35 and 19:49:38, respectively.
Kate went to the airport to meet her husband.
Given the [above] records it would seem that Gerald McCann will not have gone directly to the village where he resided while he was in our country, having gone to Vila do Bispo, only then he returned to the referred village at, or before 19:49:38.
No he doesn’t need to. I was just curious if he had offered a reason for the detour. After all he was often accounting for all sorts in his blog like which shirt he was wearing and what he was doing on certain days.
It might have been in kmc book.
Which had nothing really about maddie all though it was the title.
Just seemed IMO it was written to tie up loose ends.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 12, 2020, 11:04:10 AM
Were they aware that Harrison was planning to arrive shortly? I tried to read Gerry’s blog but could only find a version of it with only some days highlighted. It doesn’t help that I’m just looking on a phone!!
A formal request for Harrison's services by Encarnacao was made on 20th July. He submitted a report on 23rd of July, so he was working there before 26th July when Vila do Bospo/Budens began to feature in the phone pings. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 12, 2020, 11:08:48 AM
In view of the current well searching in that area, is there any evidence of Brueckner's phone pinging there during May/June ?
The Mail has mention of a tip off about his van in the area, which doesn't sound very conclusive.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Eleanor on July 12, 2020, 11:16:31 AM
No he doesn’t need to. I was just curious if he had offered a reason for the detour. After all he was often accounting for all sorts in his blog like which shirt he was wearing and what he was doing on certain days.
I talk a load of rubbish on my Blog sometimes.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 12, 2020, 12:57:04 PM
By jove, I've got it. He went to Lidl straight from the airport to stock up on his bottle of favourite New Zealand white. Obvious really.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
If people aren't suggesting something nefarious then why the sudden interest in the McCanns movements aroung VdB since the latest announcement of well searches for Madeleine's body? Perhaps you can explain that to me, being as how you're the smart one around here.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 12:58:25 PM
If people aren't suggesting something nefarious then why the sudden interest in the McCanns movements aroung VdB since the latest announcement of well searches for Madeleine's body? Perhaps you can explain that to me, being as how you're the smart one around here.
OK, what are we saying now? I give him the same courtesy I give CB; if he was about to commit a nefarious act he'd at least had the sense to turn his phone off. I don't think either of them are that stupid. He probably was going to Lidl. Seriously.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Eleanor on July 12, 2020, 01:03:59 PM
I've changed nothing, simply pointing out what's going on here, as if it needed pointing out of course. The sly inferences, quite nauseating but so predictable sadly.
Quite a few of us saw that coming. The McCanns have got no chance of passing the buck and getting away with this.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 12, 2020, 01:06:05 PM
OK, what are we saying now? I give him the same courtesy I give CB; if he was about to commit a nefarious act he'd at least had the sense to turn his phone off. I don't think either of them are that stupid. He probably was going to Lidl. Seriously.
Killjoy.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Anthro on July 12, 2020, 01:51:09 PM
Only what everyone else on here of a sceptic persuasion is suggesting by linking the McCanns to the recent searches in VdB, only I'm not so coy about it.
It’s also all over Twitter.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 12, 2020, 02:00:56 PM
Only what everyone else on here of a sceptic persuasion is suggesting by linking the McCanns to the recent searches in VdB, only I'm not so coy about it.
Why is it just sceptic on here or do you think everything evolves round this place.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 02:15:52 PM
So....do you think the only place mccs are discussed is on here.
Do you think it is only us sceptics who don't believe Maddie was abducted?
There is a big wide world out there who think mccs are involved one way or another VS. not just those on here
So....do you think the only place mccs are discussed is on here. No
Do you think it is only us sceptics who don't believe Maddie was abducted? No
There is a big wide world out there who think mccs are involved one way or another VS. not just those on here I know and there's a lot of idiots in the world as well, tell me something I don't know.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 03:56:40 PM
That the child may have been disposed of in a well by her parents is not new “evidence” coming out of Germany.
It’s been speculated upon for years.
They hid her remains “incredibly well.”
12:00 PM · Jul 12, 2020
I'd like Genius Peter Hyatt (or even Pathfinder, though fat chance of that ever happening) to explain how and when anyone could have hidden a body down a well a half hour drive from PdL, using the available evidence to back up the claim.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 12, 2020, 03:57:28 PM
I’ve always wondered about the fact that K and G deleted text messages. It would be interesting to see the content of these and who they were to / from. I’m just being speculative and there’s no evidence to suggest any sinister involvement in MMs disappearance on their part.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 03:58:01 PM
I’ve always wondered about the fact that K and G deleted text messages. It would be interesting to see the content of these and who they were to / from. I’m just being speculative and there’s no evidence to suggest any sinister involvement in MMs disappearance on their part.
You're right, it's in no way indicative of impropriety, but if we were, hypothetically, to develop a list of actions to be completed during the hunt for your missing child, I'm not sure it would feature. It is quite rightfully an oddity that would arouse suspicion in any investigation, and one that has not been satisfactorily explained.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 12, 2020, 05:19:31 PM
I'd like Genius Peter Hyatt (or even Pathfinder, though fat chance of that ever happening) to explain how and when anyone could have hidden a body down a well a half hour drive from PdL, using the available evidence to back up the claim.
I think he's purported to be a statement analyst, not one of those psychics that Davel robustly defends. Although I believe statement analysis is a sack of old shart. Just my opinion. I mean, has it actually cracked any cases, any at all? Independently?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 05:20:51 PM
You're right, it's in no way indicative of impropriety, but if we were, hypothetically, to develop a list of actions to be completed during the hunt for your missing child, I'm not sure it would feature. It is quite rightfully an oddity that would arouse suspicion in any investigation, and one that has not been satisfactorily explained.
Funny that the PJ never thought to ask the McCanns why in any of the arguido questions put to them.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 12, 2020, 05:23:03 PM
Funny that the PJ never thought to ask the McCanns why in any of the arguido questions put to them.
Most interviews develop, with a set of questions being used as a prompt for others. But, yeh, if only. Bearing in mind there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation - I can think of a couple right off the bat.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 05:23:59 PM
Most interviews develop, with a set of questions being used as a prompt for others. But, yeh, if only. Bearing in mind there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation - I can think of a couple right off the bat.
So why didn’t the PJ get round to asking Gerry this searingly important question in his arguido imterview?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 05:53:01 PM
And this in turn tells us what exactly? What date? What are you trying to tell us?
July 26th 2007.... but I think there was a burst of visits within a few days, as far as I remember. ... And of course I’m not suggesting these visits were in any way connected to the disappearance of “the child”.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: sadie on July 12, 2020, 05:57:36 PM
Has anyone offered a reason for that detour do we know?
Dunno if the twins were with them at the airport, or not, but either way it would be too late to have the tea that Ocean club provided, so onto a favourite spot for a family tea.
Gerry was a very fit man and younger. With care over eating times and bedtimes the jet lag could have been minimal. I think the young super fit Gerry would brush it off, no problem
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 12, 2020, 05:58:28 PM
So why didn’t the PJ get round to asking Gerry this searingly important question in his arguido imterview?
Timing? Did they have that information to hand at that time? Don't think so. I'll check my archives, hang on [leans back in chair, takes a another swig of Kestrel Super Strength].
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 06:08:30 PM
July 26th 2007.... but I think there was a burst of visits within a few days, as far as I remember. ... And of course I’m not suggesting these visits were in any way connected to the disappearance of “the child”.
Of course not!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 06:08:58 PM
26 July when he returned from Washington and 3 days after Kate told Paiva that Madeleine was buried on a hill.
And?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 06:09:26 PM
MONDAY, JULY 23: I got up at 7.00 and went running. I was surrounded by a pack of dogs (more or less 12)'it really wasn't a nice experience. I went to the flat, high part of the cliff as I felt really alone and a little frightened. Please God, don't let Madeleine be buried here. Please God, make sure she's alive. Please God, bring her back quickly to us.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 06:14:43 PM
MONDAY, JULY 23: I got up at 7.00 and went running. I was surrounded by a pack of dogs (more or less 12)'it really wasn't a nice experience. I went to the flat, high part of the cliff as I felt really alone and a little frightened. Please God, don't let Madeleine be buried here. Please God, make sure she's alive. Please God, bring her back quickly to us.
And?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 06:15:31 PM
Timing? Did they have that information to hand at that time? Don't think so. I'll check my archives, hang on [leans back in chair, takes a another swig of Kestrel Super Strength].
Yeah you’re right they didn’t. Dunno why it took them so long though.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 12, 2020, 06:18:02 PM
Yeah you’re right they didn’t. Dunno why it took them so long though.
Well it took time to get the data from the service providers, plus warrants I imagine. Then it needed to be analysed and, even the staunchest supporter has to agree the analysis was very thorough.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 06:20:46 PM
Well it took time to get the data from the service providers, plus warrants I imagine. Then it needed to be analysed and, even the staunchest supporter has to agree the analysis was very thorough.
I’m sure it was, though it revealed nothing incriminating, especially not if you believe Madeleine died in an accident on the 3rd May, as the deleted messages were received before that date.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 06:28:42 PM
How would he know? Kate talked to Paiva not him.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 06:36:14 PM
Wasn’t it just after that that the ‘not of interest to the investigation’ file was made public ? Pavia, and his evidence, had to be discredited at any cost.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 12, 2020, 10:22:41 PM
July 26th 2007.... but I think there was a burst of visits within a few days, as far as I remember. ... And of course I’m not suggesting these visits were in any way connected to the disappearance of “the child”.
Have you read the surveillance files regarding the number of antennae activated? If not I suggest you do.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 12, 2020, 10:37:06 PM
It tells us Gerry should have reached Vila Do Bispo at about 6:30 but his phone didn't ping until 7.05.
The surveillance files certainly do appear to throw up a few anomalies such as ... Snip It is plausible that the communications made at 16:43:53 and 16:46:37 had been made when Gerald's phone was on the fringe of the coverage area between the two antennae, because it would not be possible to cover the distance of approximately 10.5 km that separates these two locations in only 2.44 minutes, unless he had travelled at 315 km/h.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 10:37:37 PM
The surveillance files certainly do appear to throw up a few anomalies such as ... Snip It is plausible that the communications made at 16:43:53 and 16:46:37 had been made when Gerald's phone was on the fringe of the coverage area between the two antennae, because it would not be possible to cover the distance of approximately 10.5 km that separates these two locations in only 2.44 minutes, unless he had travelled at 315 km/h.
90 minutes gap between pings is the interesting fact.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 12, 2020, 10:46:05 PM
I am sure Kate and Gerry believed MBM was dead at some point very early on, why that changed we don't know, It may have something to do with the fact they feared a backlash, and Threw in a story about a childless couple, forgetting about the 'window' account of entry /exit.
Forgiving the abductor-suspected paedophile gang was mentioned.
Then a business venture came to light and whoah...
I just want to know why if they suspected their daughter was abducted by a paedo gang she would come to no harm? AND why did Gerry go to USA? missing children? was Maddie seen there? - He isn't American and they have their own missing children.
It was a global business.
Re: the long road- perhaps they wanted to have a chat in private about'stuff'.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 11:11:37 PM
It was a DREAM. Dreams tend not to be 100% rational. What is entirely irrational in my view is that an investigative team should place such importance on a dream had by a virtually hysterical mother of a missing child.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 12, 2020, 11:16:07 PM
The surveillance files certainly do appear to throw up a few anomalies such as ... Snip It is plausible that the communications made at 16:43:53 and 16:46:37 had been made when Gerald's phone was on the fringe of the coverage area between the two antennae, because it would not be possible to cover the distance of approximately 10.5 km that separates these two locations in only 2.44 minutes, unless he had travelled at 315 km/h. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11664.msg608900#msg608900
As the files say ... 315 km/h in perhaps a little hiccup between antennae.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 12, 2020, 11:16:15 PM
It was a DREAM. Dreams tend not to be 100% rational. What is entirely irrational in my view is that an investigative team should place such importance on a dream had by a virtually hysterical mother of a missing child.
Subliminal message perhaps. Why would she be crying to the police officer on the phone if it was 'only a dream'.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 11:17:45 PM
It was a DREAM. Dreams tend not to be 100% rational. What is entirely irrational in my view is that an investigative team should place such importance on a dream had by a virtually hysterical mother of a missing child.
She shouldn't have told the police. As she did she thought it was important!
She denied that dream about Madeleine happened in her book!
“On the night of 1 September I dreamed about Madeleine for the first time in four months…it was such a dreadful experience…Although I was dreaming, I could feel her. It was as if parts of my body that had been hibernating for months suddenly began to stir. I could sense the cold, dark days lifting as I luxuriated in warmth and light. And Madeleine was holding me, her little arms wrapped tightly round me, and it felt so good, I could smell her, I could feel her with every one of my senses as I soaked up this heavenly moment. My Madeleine. I wanted to stay like this for ever. And then I woke up. Ice began to course through my body, driving out every endorphin and remnant of warmth. I didn’t understand. What was happening? How could this be? I could still feel her! A heavy boot connected with my stomach and the ache in my chest was worse than I’d known it. I was struggling for breath, almost as if I were being strangled. Please God, don’t let her go! Stay with me, Madeleine. Please stay with me. Don’t go - stay with Mummy. Please, sweetheart, hold on. I love you so much. I started to cry. The crying built into seismic sobs. An unearthly sound, like the howl of a wounded animal, was coming out of my mouth. The crushing pain in my chest intensified to the point where I thought I was going to die. I’d been with her. And then she was gone. Again”.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 12, 2020, 11:21:32 PM
She shouldn't have told the police. As she did she thought it was important!
She denied that dream about Madeleine happened in her book!
“On the night of 1 September I dreamed about Madeleine for the first time in four months…it was such a dreadful experience…Although I was dreaming, I could feel her. It was as if parts of my body that had been hibernating for months suddenly began to stir. I could sense the cold, dark days lifting as I luxuriated in warmth and light. And Madeleine was holding me, her little arms wrapped tightly round me, and it felt so good, I could smell her, I could feel her with every one of my senses as I soaked up this heavenly moment. My Madeleine. I wanted to stay like this for ever. And then I woke up. Ice began to course through my body, driving out every endorphin and remnant of warmth. I didn’t understand. What was happening? How could this be? I could still feel her! A heavy boot connected with my stomach and the ache in my chest was worse than I’d known it. I was struggling for breath, almost as if I were being strangled. Please God, don’t let her go! Stay with me, Madeleine. Please stay with me. Don’t go - stay with Mummy. Please, sweetheart, hold on. I love you so much. I started to cry. The crying built into seismic sobs. An unearthly sound, like the howl of a wounded animal, was coming out of my mouth. The crushing pain in my chest intensified to the point where I thought I was going to die. I’d been with her. And then she was gone. Again”.
That was Kate's dream. It doesn't come close to the one Paiva alleged.
Anyway ... dreams are off topic on this thread ... Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: John on July 12, 2020, 11:26:35 PM
So what took one or both parents to Vila do Bispo on two consecutive days, namely 26th and 27th July 2007?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 12, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
The surveillance files certainly do appear to throw up a few anomalies such as ... Snip It is plausible that the communications made at 16:43:53 and 16:46:37 had been made when Gerald's phone was on the fringe of the coverage area between the two antennae, because it would not be possible to cover the distance of approximately 10.5 km that separates these two locations in only 2.44 minutes, unless he had travelled at 315 km/h. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11664.msg608900#msg608900
As the files say ... 315 km/h in perhaps a little hiccup between antennae.
What is the source of your times?
26 July 2007
16:41:06 Faro Airport 17:31:23 Pedra de Agua 17:32:27 Boliqueime 19:05:21 Vila do Bispo 19:10:35 Budens 19:49:38 Praia da Luz
So what took one or both parents to Vila do Bispo on two consecutive days, namely 26th and 27th July 2007?
Yes the same area and to Sagres.
On 27th [the phone] leaves in the direction of Sagres. On the way to this town a contact is registered at 17:48:50 with the antenna "Budens". In the locality, supposedly the destination, it activated the antenna with that name [Sagres] at 18:47:32. According to the records it comes back to the village of Luz, the first antenna being activated is "Praia da Luz Centre" at 20:42:25.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: John on July 12, 2020, 11:39:26 PM
Activations of the mobile phone (44)790-310-8397; Owned/used by KATE MARIE HEALY [McCann].
"On 27 the records again indicate a new exit to the coverage area of the antenna called "Raposeira 1" (close to Vila do Bispo).
The first record on this antenna occurs at 16:33:13 and the last was at 18:59:22.
The return to Luz happened at 19:54:23.
If we compare the records of the mobile phone of Gerald, one can infer that on this journey he had not accompanied his wife, given that at 16:33:41 his mobile phone has an entry on one of the antennae of Luz.
However it is probable that that they had met later."
Subliminal message perhaps. Why would she be crying to the police officer on the phone if it was 'only a dream'.
She was crying and it was only a dream, but if you’re a mother and you have a vivid dream about your missing child and you think (irrationally) that it might be significant and you have no one else to turn to at that moment, why not share that experience with a person you consider to be on your side and who you believe may be able to help?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 12, 2020, 11:49:43 PM
How could it be relevant to the investigation into Madeleine’s whereabouts?
I believe it to be quite a coincidence that out of the entire country, the police are searching wells in a small town in the Western Algarve where both the McCanns and the new chief suspect Christian Brueckner spent time.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 12:12:14 AM
She was crying and it was only a dream, but if you’re a mother and you have a vivid dream about your missing child and you think (irrationally) that it might be significant and you have no one else to turn to at that moment, why not share that experience with a person you consider to be on your side and who you believe may be able to help?
You mean like my husband? My mother/father/sisters/brother? Oh never thought about the police- jebus!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 12:14:00 AM
I believe it to be quite a coincidence that out of the entire country, the police are searching wells in a small town in the Western Algarve where both the McCanns and the new chief suspect Christian Brueckner spent time.
Yes, me too!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 13, 2020, 12:19:17 AM
I believe it to be quite a coincidence that out of the entire country, the police are searching wells in a small town in the Western Algarve where both the McCanns and the new chief suspect Christian Brueckner spent time.
They searched elsewhere, too. These particular wells are the ones that would allow a street dump from a vehicle on CBc way home.
If there was GMCC connection to CB, police would know this long ago. Phone calls, phone pings, you know?
We no longer live in the Agatha Christie's world.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 07:16:22 AM
I believe it to be quite a coincidence that out of the entire country, the police are searching wells in a small town in the Western Algarve where both the McCanns and the new chief suspect Christian Brueckner spent time.
So you think the McCanns hid Madeleine’s body in a well?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 07:18:47 AM
So what took one or both parents to Vila do Bispo on two consecutive days, namely 26th and 27th July 2007?
You would need to ask them. What I see is more grasping at straws to implicate the parents. As ive said before...when you have a vacuum you can put any old rubbish in.
What we see again is posters are quick to question the McCanns on the slightest incidence...but want to dismiss the mountain of evidence against Breukner. Fortunately thats not how the police investigation is progressing.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 08:43:22 AM
You would need to ask them. What I see is more grasping at straws to implicate the parents. As ive said before...when you have a vacuum you can put any old rubbish in.
What we see again is posters are quick to question the McCanns on the slightest incidence...but want to dismiss the mountain of evidence against Breukner. Fortunately thats not how the police investigation is progressing.
Who is grasping at straws what is this mountain of evidence you are talking about ...media headlines it seems.
I cant see CB being charged or any proof he was in 5A because.
I cant see it grasping at straws implicating the parents they were in 5A.
Nothing has changed my mind or opinion on the mccs....
Mymindset is to keep your eye on the ball, not the confusion that started with 20+ people going in that apartment
If you cannot see a mountain of evidence that implicated Breukner then imo you are in denial I'm not saying he's guilty but the next few weeks could be very interesting. It's clear to me...based on evidence...the McCanns are not suspects
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 13, 2020, 08:48:23 AM
try and keep the discussion to the topic "Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time".
There are plenty of other threads discussing the topic in a more general fashion.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 08:51:35 AM
try and keep the discussion to the topic "Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time".
There are plenty of other threads discussing the topic in a more general fashion.
It was John who introduced the McCanns to this thread
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 13, 2020, 08:53:35 AM
The McCann phone records have been available since 2007
So have everyone else's.
There are thousand upon thousand disused wells in the Algarve.
Why centre on wells in this particular place to deploy divers into? Why not search the wells around Brueckner's known haunts? He is at present the prime suspect after all.
In my opinion it is because Brueckner's phone was not activating the antennae in Luz. In my opinion the same phone dump records from which the McCann and everyone else's phone traffic was extrapolated have shown that Brueckner was in this area in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance.
I think sceptics suffer from exactly the same syndrome of inability to see the wood for the trees as Amaral's Judicial Police had. If they had Gerry McCann's innocuous phone traffic from 2007 I think it is a certainty they also have Brueckner's ... and that is why logically, the wells close to where Brueckner was in 2007 are the ones being searched.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 13, 2020, 08:53:57 AM
The McCann phone records have been available since 2007
So have everyone else's.
There are thousand upon thousand disused wells in the Algarve.
Why centre on wells in this particular place to deploy divers into? Why not search the wells around Brueckner's known haunts? He is at present the prime suspect after all.
In my opinion it is because Brueckner's phone was not activating the antennae in Luz. In my opinion the same phone dump records from which the McCann and everyone else's phone traffic was extrapolated have shown that Brueckner was in this area in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance.
I think sceptics suffer from exactly the same syndrome of inability to see the wood for the trees as Amaral's Judicial Police had. If they had Gerry McCann's innocuous phone traffic from 2007 I think it is a certainty they also have Brueckner's ... and that is why logically, the wells close to where Brueckner was in 2007 are the ones being searched.
I agree that these searches are almost certainly based on intelligence and that would be Breukneres phone traffic....no one elses
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 08:59:38 AM
have you not read the thread you are commentibg on...
So what took one or both parents to Vila do Bispo on two consecutive days, namely 26th and 27th July 2007?
ctivations of the mobile phone (44)790-310-8397; Owned/used by KATE MARIE HEALY [McCann].
"On 27 the records again indicate a new exit to the coverage area of the antenna called "Raposeira 1" (close to Vila do Bispo).
The first record on this antenna occurs at 16:33:13 and the last was at 18:59:22.
The return to Luz happened at 19:54:23.
If we compare the records of the mobile phone of Gerald, one can infer that on this journey he had not accompanied his wife, given that at 16:33:41 his mobile phone has an entry on one of the antennae of Luz.
However it is probable that that they had met later."
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 13, 2020, 09:01:11 AM
You would need to ask them. What I see is more grasping at straws to implicate the parents. As ive said before...when you have a vacuum you can put any old rubbish in.
What we see again is posters are quick to question the McCanns on the slightest incidence...but want to dismiss the mountain of evidence against Breukner. Fortunately thats not how the police investigation is progressing.
Even in 2007 everyone left an electronic trail. We can witness the one left by the McCanns and their friends because that is the only one Amaral's team was interested in.
As we can now see that was not the only one worthy of interest. Brueckner's phone activated antennae in Luz just before Madeleine disappeared.
I think the next footprint he left behind him was in the area now being searched for traces of Madeleine, and I don't think he necessarily threw her into a well.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 09:03:33 AM
have you not read the thread you are commentibg on...
So what took one or both parents to Vila do Bispo on two consecutive days, namely 26th and 27th July 2007?
ctivations of the mobile phone (44)790-310-8397; Owned/used by KATE MARIE HEALY [McCann].
"On 27 the records again indicate a new exit to the coverage area of the antenna called "Raposeira 1" (close to Vila do Bispo).
The first record on this antenna occurs at 16:33:13 and the last was at 18:59:22.
The return to Luz happened at 19:54:23.
If we compare the records of the mobile phone of Gerald, one can infer that on this journey he had not accompanied his wife, given that at 16:33:41 his mobile phone has an entry on one of the antennae of Luz.
However it is probable that that they had met later."
Was he having an affair?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 09:07:47 AM
So what why do you think the mccs were at Vila do Bispo.
As far as I'm concerned ... I don't give a tinker's curse. The person of interest to the police is Brueckner ... I think some sceptics may have already grasped that fact by now; but others never will.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 09:12:15 AM
Even in 2007 everyone left an electronic trail. We can witness the one left by the McCanns and their friends because that is the only one Amaral's team was interested in.
As we can now see that was not the only one worthy of interest. Brueckner's phone activated antennae in Luz just before Madeleine disappeared.
I think the next footprint he left behind him was in the area now being searched for traces of Madeleine, and I don't think he necessarily threw her into a well.
I can't for the life of me think why you would think CB abducted Maddie going to all that risk just to dispose of her...it doesn't make sense ...
why take her all the way to Vila do Bispo if you don't think its the well otherwise he could have buried her anyway.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 09:14:45 AM
I can't for the life of me think why you would think CB abducted Maddie going to all that risk just to dispose of her...it doesn't make sense ...
why take her all the way to Vila do Bispo if you don't think its the well otherwise he could have buried her anyway.
He didnt abduct her just to dispose of her...read his history. the ground is too hard to dig a grave evidently. one of the many wells is much more convenient
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 09:15:49 AM
As far as I'm concerned ... I don't give a tinker's curse. The person of interest to the police is Brueckner ... I think some sceptics may have already grasped that fact by now; but others never will.
Right back at you B.
But what we know the mcc was at Vila do Bispo.
You don't know if CB WAS
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 09:18:33 AM
He didnt abduct her just to dispose of her...read his history. the ground is too hard to dig a grave evidently. one of the many wells is much more convenient
Why do you think he abducted Maddie then
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 09:24:01 AM
Until Amaral spilled the beans "we" had never heard of Brueckner or his accessibility to Luz.
I never claimed to know where Brueckner was after Madeleine's disappearance ... I have made an educated guess that the police do ... which is why their interest in searching abandoned wells in the area.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Eleanor on July 13, 2020, 09:27:30 AM
He could have abducted Madeleine to sell on the abduction market.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 13, 2020, 09:30:38 AM
I’ve always wondered about the fact that K and G deleted text messages. It would be interesting to see the content of these and who they were to / from. I’m just being speculative and there’s no evidence to suggest any sinister involvement in MMs disappearance on their part.
Could it be they deleted private text messages from their place of work? They wouldn't want anyone reading messages about patients.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Lace on July 13, 2020, 09:35:16 AM
Yes, I'm aware of that but CB doesn't come across as the brightest button in the box.
Why would he go to all the so-called planning watching risk factor just to do what you have explained in your post.
CB has been described as quite bright by those that know/knew him so I don't really know what you're basing your opinion on?
Why would any rapist / murderer who plans an abduction of a child to rape and murder go to all that trouble? Maybe he took photos and made a video and sold the on the black web, or maybe it was for the sheer thrill of it, nothing more. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened, yet you're making out it's almost unheard of. Why?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Lace on July 13, 2020, 09:47:19 AM
I am sure Kate and Gerry believed MBM was dead at some point very early on, why that changed we don't know, It may have something to do with the fact they feared a backlash, and Threw in a story about a childless couple, forgetting about the 'window' account of entry /exit.
Forgiving the abductor-suspected paedophile gang was mentioned.
Then a business venture came to light and whoah...
I just want to know why if they suspected their daughter was abducted by a paedo gang she would come to no harm? AND why did Gerry go to USA? missing children? was Maddie seen there? - He isn't American and they have their own missing children.
It was a global business.
Re: the long road- perhaps they wanted to have a chat in private about'stuff'.
Quote Gerry - And, of course, Kate and I are both hopeful that the publicity surrounding this and our tie-ins with the National Center and International Center for Missing and Exploited Children keep Madeleine’s profile high and increases the chances of us finding her.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 09:59:34 AM
She was crying and it was only a dream, but if you’re a mother and you have a vivid dream about your missing child and you think (irrationally) that it might be significant and you have no one else to turn to at that moment, why not share that experience with a person you consider to be on your side and who you believe may be able to help?
No-one else to turn to? That would have been a first.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 10:02:43 AM
No-one else to turn to? That would have been a first.
What do you mean by that? When did Kate have this dream? Who was with her when she woke up? Describe the circumstances. Who should she have called if she firmly believed her dream was trying to tell her Madeleine was on a hill somewhere in the locale? Why the need to be so sneery about a woman in a state on extreme emotional distress?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
Yes, I'm aware of that but CB doesn't come across as the brightest button in the box.
Why would he go to all the so-called planning watching risk factor just to do what you have explained in your post.
Lol. It seems it's the ok to criticise HCW who will have a degree in law.. do you have a degree...Grime doesn't come over to me as the brightest button on the box...is that a fair comment
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 13, 2020, 10:22:21 AM
You would need to ask them. What I see is more grasping at straws to implicate the parents. As ive said before...when you have a vacuum you can put any old rubbish in.
What we see again is posters are quick to question the McCanns on the slightest incidence...but want to dismiss the mountain of evidence against Breukner. Fortunately thats not how the police investigation is progressing.
Mountain of evidence?
According to the PJ there's fundamental evidence.
The Germans have concrete evidence.
So what exactly is this Mountain of evidence of which you speak?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 10:35:07 AM
What do you mean by that? When did Kate have this dream? Who was with her when she woke up? Describe the circumstances. Who should she have called if she firmly believed her dream was trying to tell her Madeleine was on a hill somewhere in the locale? Why the need to be so sneery about a woman in a state on extreme emotional distress?
So you don't know whether or not Kate had no-one else to turn to, that's just speculation on your part?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 10:35:23 AM
Lol. It seems it's the ok to criticise HCW who will have a degree in law.. do you have a degree...Grime doesn't come over to me as the brightest button on the box...is that a fair comment
Well, it just could be Grimes dogs will Identify the suspect if they did find Maddie.as in
"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence."
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 13, 2020, 10:39:13 AM
No-one else to turn to? That would have been a first.
I agree which makes it all the more likely that Paiva's court testimony is nothing more than pie in the sky. Kate had many dear friends and family members who she would have phoned if she had needed anyone to talk to in the middle of the night.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 10:43:24 AM
It makes you wonder why SY had to wait for germans involvement when they had 12million at there disposal.
Why is it they did not pick up on CB what have they actually being doing.
Did they know about mccs phone pings at Vila do Bispo or did they but.it is possible they missed vital evidence.
By not looking at this case from begining IMO.
UK detective refused to head up Madeleine McCann probe because 'Scotland Yard would order him to prove Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignore other leads' Colin Sutton said he was warned by senior friend in the Met about case in 2010 Friend said he would be told 'who to talk to and what to investigate', he claimed 'Narrow focus' would be to prove Kate, Gerry and Tapas Nine innocent, he said Spoke on Sky Documentary based on leaked Home Office report that revealed 'turbulent relationship' between McCanns and police in London and Portugal
It makes you wonder why SY had to wait for germans involvement when they had 12million at there disposal.
Why is it they did not pick up on CB what have they actually being doing.
Did they know about mccs phone pings at Vila do Bispo or did they but.it is possible they missed vital evidence.
By not looking at this case from begining IMO.
UK detective refused to head up Madeleine McCann probe because 'Scotland Yard would order him to prove Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignore other leads' Colin Sutton said he was warned by senior friend in the Met about case in 2010 Friend said he would be told 'who to talk to and what to investigate', he claimed 'Narrow focus' would be to prove Kate, Gerry and Tapas Nine innocent, he said Spoke on Sky Documentary based on leaked Home Office report that revealed 'turbulent relationship' between McCanns and police in London and Portugal
We know where Kate and Gerry were for almost every minute of every day for several months after Madeleine's disappearance.
It is possible the police now know where Brueckner was too by the simple expediency of following the phone pings which Amaral's investigators totally ignored.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 10:53:40 AM
We know where Kate and Gerry were for almost every minute of every day for several months after Madeleine's disappearance.
It is possible the police now know where Brueckner was too by the simple expediency of following the phone pings which Amaral's investigators totally ignored.
We know where Kate and Gerry were for almost every minute of every day for several months after Madeleine's disappearance.
You may think that ....I don't I believe that would be rather an overstretched statement to make.
It would be impossible to prove your claim on that.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 11:00:51 AM
We know where Kate and Gerry were for almost every minute of every day for several months after Madeleine's disappearance.
It is possible the police now know where Brueckner was too by the simple expediency of following the phone pings which Amaral's investigators totally ignored.
General area perhaps, provided he had his phone on all the time.
I believe he went to Germany towards the end of May, so not a particularly large time window to check, though I suppose he could have traveled quite some distance around the Algarve during that time.
Unless searchers strike lucky, I think they'll be at it for some time yet.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
It makes you wonder why SY had to wait for germans involvement when they had 12million at there disposal.
Why is it they did not pick up on CB what have they actually being doing.
Did they know about mccs phone pings at Vila do Bispo or did they but.it is possible they missed vital evidence.
By not looking at this case from begining IMO.
UK detective refused to head up Madeleine McCann probe because 'Scotland Yard would order him to prove Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignore other leads' Colin Sutton said he was warned by senior friend in the Met about case in 2010
That is absolute rubbish but you continue to believe it. The person who spoke to Sutton did not mention the McCanns..the true facts are in his blog
According to sutton he was told...do you want to head an investigation where you are told where you can and cannot look.
No mention whatsoever of the McCanns...may well have been taht the investigation is limited to where it can look by the PJ. Sutton made an assumption
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 11:23:48 AM
I agree which makes it all the more likely that Paiva's court testimony is nothing more than pie in the sky. Kate had many dear friends and family members who she would have phoned if she had needed anyone to talk to in the middle of the night.
Was it the middle of the night? Kate said she phoned Paiva 'in the evening'.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
To Order. Legal Adoption is lengthy and expensive.
I’m sorry Eleanor but this suggestion is just ridiculous. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a child being specifically targeted and abducted to sell on to a third party to raise as their own...have you ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 12:04:55 PM
Well apparently they didn't know he was a sex offender.
Why did they, then, show his photo to one of the childminders in OC back in 2007?
It comes after a nanny who looked after the toddler at the resort where she went missing said she was also shown the German paedophile’s photo and told his name by investigating officers.
This happened on May 8, 2007 – five days after Madeleine vanished from her family’s holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.
The nanny told the Mirror yesterday: “I was shown identikits the day after they took my statement [about her time with Madeleine].
“I recognised a few people from just being about… one guy I recognised was a known paedophile who later committed suicide.
"I am aware of his [Brueckner’s] name and face from photos I was shown but I don’t think I remember having seen him in real life.
"I’m aware police knew of guys like this in Praia da Luz at the time https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/key-madeleine-mccann-witness-told-22147229
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 12:09:52 PM
Why did they, then, show his photo to one of the childminders in OC back in 2007?
It comes after a nanny who looked after the toddler at the resort where she went missing said she was also shown the German paedophile’s photo and told his name by investigating officers.
This happened on May 8, 2007 – five days after Madeleine vanished from her family’s holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.
The nanny told the Mirror yesterday: “I was shown identikits the day after they took my statement [about her time with Madeleine].
“I recognised a few people from just being about… one guy I recognised was a known paedophile who later committed suicide.
"I am aware of his [Brueckner’s] name and face from photos I was shown but I don’t think I remember having seen him in real life.
"I’m aware police knew of guys like this in Praia da Luz at the time https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/key-madeleine-mccann-witness-told-22147229
Did they or did she simply include it to justify her fee.....I mean her story wouldn’t have been worth anything if there wasn’t a Brueckner connection would it ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
He could have abducted Madeleine to sell on the abduction market.
Does anyone else in here remember Antonio Toscano. Not his witness statement that we all can find but the actual story he was coming with at first. That he went to 'Frenchman's' house on the border between Germany and France where he was shown videos for sale. The character he described matches CBs character and also his actions. I think this story was published in Spanish media first and then translated to us. This article is somehow matching what we are hearing about CB now. Could it be that Antonio Toscano made up the Frenchman and the house on German border and that all actually happened in PDL? Otherwise, it is a strange coincidence. Could it be that AT was silenced before giving his statement? Because his statement is very much different to what he was saying at the beginning.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
Did they or did she simply include it to justify her fee.....I mean her story wouldn’t have been worth anything if there wasn’t a Brueckner connection would it ?
I was of impression, read it somewhere, that his photo was shown to several people at the time, not only her.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 12:23:06 PM
Story doesn't fit well with argument that the Portuguese new nothing about him and his history
Maybe they had known him as a thief but not as a child abuser. There is also a report that the inspectors went to his house at the time but did not find him.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 12:36:30 PM
Maybe they had known him as a thief but not as a child abuser. There is also a report that the inspectors went to his house at the time but did not find him.
Agreed, but would his status as a thief be sufficient for police to show his picture around ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 12:40:03 PM
Does anyone else in here remember Antonio Toscano. Not his witness statement that we all can find but the actual story he was coming with at first. That he went to 'Frenchman's' house on the border between Germany and France where he was shown videos for sale. The character he described matches CBs character and also his actions. I think this story was published in Spanish media first and then translated to us. This article is somehow matching what we are hearing about CB now. Could it be that Antonio Toscano made up the Frenchman and the house on German border and that all actually happened in PDL? Otherwise, it is a strange coincidence. Could it be that AT was silenced before giving his statement? Because his statement is very much different to what he was saying at the beginning.
So what part sounds like Brueckner ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: barrier on July 13, 2020, 12:42:09 PM
So why aren't the press having a ringside seat in the well searches as they did with the 2014 dig's.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 12:43:44 PM
Please save me from your ironic remarks. I am not a frustrated housewife here to waste my life arguing to philosophically prove my point on every post that the parents are guilty because I think so or the dogs said so.
I said already what to me seems like Brueckner. Toscano mentioned a huge numbers of torture videos. Brueckner had them. Toscano mentioned his suspect was filming illegal videos for sale. Brueckner did it. Toscano described a very able cold blooded criminal who leaves no trace, Brueckner is like that.
Unless there were many of them like that in the area.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
I agree which makes it all the more likely that Paiva's court testimony is nothing more than pie in the sky. Kate had many dear friends and family members who she would have phoned if she had needed anyone to talk to in the middle of the night.
Pavia had no reason to make that up. Kate denying it well... it changed the investigation to point their way.
as with all Kate and Gerry's statements and corrections and explanation after the event, can we really take this as the truth from Kate?
I think not.
I mean, two Doctors believing a guy thousands of miles away seeking eyelashes and hair to establish where their daughter was buried using a contraption Is way beyond any scientific explanation. Science fiction- hell yeah absolutely!
They really do treat their 'audience' with contempt.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Lace on July 13, 2020, 01:02:56 PM
Why did they, then, show his photo to one of the childminders in OC back in 2007?
It comes after a nanny who looked after the toddler at the resort where she went missing said she was also shown the German paedophile’s photo and told his name by investigating officers.
This happened on May 8, 2007 – five days after Madeleine vanished from her family’s holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.
The nanny told the Mirror yesterday: “I was shown identikits the day after they took my statement [about her time with Madeleine].
“I recognised a few people from just being about… one guy I recognised was a known paedophile who later committed suicide.
"I am aware of his [Brueckner’s] name and face from photos I was shown but I don’t think I remember having seen him in real life.
"I’m aware police knew of guys like this in Praia da Luz at the time https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/key-madeleine-mccann-witness-told-22147229
I was being sarcastic. Of course they knew of Brueckner, I don't know why they are saying they didn't.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 01:03:25 PM
Pavia had no reason to make that up. Kate denying it well... it changed the investigation to point their way.
as with all Kate and Gerry's statements and corrections and explanation after the event, can we really take this as the truth from Kate?
I think not.
I mean, two Doctors believing a guy thousands of miles away seeking eyelashes and hair to establish where their daughter was buried using a contraption Is way beyond any scientific explanation. Science fiction- hell yeah absolutely!
They really do treat their 'audience' with contempt.
Sounds like he either misunderstood or made it up
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 01:04:04 PM
Please save me from your ironic remarks. I am not a frustrated housewife here to waste my life arguing to philosophically prove my point on every post that the parents are guilty because I think so or the dogs said so.
I said already what to me seems like Brueckner. Toscano mentioned a huge numbers of torture videos. Brueckner had them. Toscano mentioned his suspect was filming illegal videos for sale. Brueckner did it. Toscano described a very able cold blooded criminal who leaves no trace, Brueckner is like that.
Unless there were many of them like that in the area.
If you’re not a frustrated housewife etc, etc, etc what are you here for ?
Brueckner appeared to have one video of the rape of an old woman which the people who found it destroyed before anyone else could see it. What other torture videos did he have ? Where is the evidence he sold any videos ? Most criminals are cold blooded and we know about this criminal because he did leave traces.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 01:07:12 PM
A thief whose phone happened to be in the area? Maybe they had a tip they dismissed?
The parents were also 'in the area'. "Toscano mentioned a huge numbers of torture videos. Brueckner had them. Toscano mentioned his suspect was filming illegal videos for sale. Brueckner did it. Toscano described a very able cold blooded criminal who leaves no trace, Brueckner is like that."
So are many other paedophiles! Unless Toscano had seen and could describe the videos of MBM, all we have is a evil b@strd bragging and selling vile videos, like many other evil b@strds.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
If you’re not a frustrated housewife etc, etc, etc what are you here for ?
Brueckner appeared to have one video of the rape of an old woman which the people who found it destroyed before anyone else could see it. What other torture videos did he have ? Where is the evidence he sold any videos ? Most criminals are cold blooded and we know about this criminal because he did leave traces.
German police found around 800 child torture videos on CBs property, hidden under his dead dog. On some of them CB appeared. According to his friend he was almost constantly on dark web, he was money orientated, according to his gf, if there was no money in it, her was not there. I saw nowhere that he was selling videos but being on dark web and possessing these videos would make me think he was selling them.
Also, in the online chat, which was published on German TV, he said that he would make many videos of his potential new victim.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 01:11:51 PM
The parents were also 'in the area'. "Toscano mentioned a huge numbers of torture videos. Brueckner had them. Toscano mentioned his suspect was filming illegal videos for sale. Brueckner did it. Toscano described a very able cold blooded criminal who leaves no trace, Brueckner is like that."
So are many other paedophiles! Unless Toscano had seen and could describe the videos of MBM, all we have is a evil b@strd bragging and selling vile videos, like many other evil b@strds.
HCW was asked if any of the videos featured Maddie...he declined to answer...that could be significant
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 01:13:40 PM
German police found around 800 child torture videos on CBs property, hidden under his dead dog. On some of them CB appeared. According to his friend he was almost constantly on dark web, he was money orientated, according to his gf, if there was no money in it, her was not there. I saw nowhere that he was selling videos but being on dark web and possessing these videos would make me think he was selling them.
Have police actually said that, or is it what the media has said that they said ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 01:15:55 PM
German police found around 800 child torture videos on CBs property, hidden under his dead dog. On some of them CB appeared. According to his friend he was almost constantly on dark web, he was money orientated, according to his gf, if there was no money in it, her was not there. I saw nowhere that he was selling videos but being on dark web and possessing these videos would make me think he was selling them.
Also, in the online chat, which was published on German TV, he said that he would make many videos of his potential new victim.
So the 'friend' and girlfriend both knew he was involved with MBM's disappearance and never went to the police or the media at the time? Even when a reward was on offer. great friends and protective Girlfriend he was lucky to have. Such a nice guy!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 01:18:21 PM
Does anyone else in here remember Antonio Toscano. Not his witness statement that we all can find but the actual story he was coming with at first. That he went to 'Frenchman's' house on the border between Germany and France where he was shown videos for sale. The character he described matches CBs character and also his actions. I think this story was published in Spanish media first and then translated to us. This article is somehow matching what we are hearing about CB now. Could it be that Antonio Toscano made up the Frenchman and the house on German border and that all actually happened in PDL? Otherwise, it is a strange coincidence. Could it be that AT was silenced before giving his statement? Because his statement is very much different to what he was saying at the beginning.
I think this freelance Spanish journalist's story was slightly different than you have described it. https://themaddiecasefiles.com/antonio-toscano-statement-t63.html#p551
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 01:19:56 PM
So the 'friend' and girlfriend both knew he was involved with MBM's disappearance and never went to the police or the media at the time? Even when a reward was on offer. great friends and protective Girlfriend he was lucky to have. Such a nice guy!
The gf did not know. MT, his Australian friend, started suspecting him after the Netflix documentary and after he was personally questioned for 14 hours.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 01:22:02 PM
The gf did not know. MT, his Australian friend, started suspecting him after the Netflix documentary and after he was personally questioned for 14 hours.
His name may well have been given to the PJ who perhaps were so fixated on the parents...ignored it
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 01:23:30 PM
I think this freelance Spanish journalist's story was slightly different than you have described it. https://themaddiecasefiles.com/antonio-toscano-statement-t63.html#p551
This is what I am saying. His story was as what I described, I read the translation. It was published in Spain but not the online version. I was looking for that. We only had the photo of the Spanish article and the translation. I cannot find it anywhere anymore. But when he finally reached the PJ his statement was very much different to the actual interview he gave to papers where he mentioned going to the house on French German boarder and meeting his actual "suspect" I am sure I have seen it!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 01:25:25 PM
His name may well have been given to the PJ who perhaps were so fixated on the parents...ignored it
That's what I am thinking! And I also think that the PJ move was due to them reading internet forums too much. First there was only one web page, some crime blog and was very good, then the blog did not have a capacity and moved to a messageboard. Then the admins of this messageboard split in opinion and they moved the followers to two message boards. One of the messaboards was suspecting parents and this is when PJ turned towards the parents. If they were professional and ignored the internet hearsays IMO they would have been much more successful.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 01:32:22 PM
That's what I am thinking! And I also think that the PJ move was due to them reading internet forums too much. First there was only one web page, some crime blog and was very good, then the blog did not have a capacity and moved to a messageboard. Then the admins of this messageboard split in opinion and they moved the followers to two message boards. One of the messaboards was suspecting parents and this is when PJ turned towards the parents. If they were professional and ignored the internet hearsays IMO they would have been much more successful.
You have no evidence of such claims. The PJ have already said why they suspected the parents.
The lack of evidence of abduction the account of how the alarm was raised by KM The timeline their behaviour them believing their daughter was dead already
To name a few...
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 01:37:34 PM
This is what I am saying. His story was as what I described, I read the translation. It was published in Spain but not the online version. I was looking for that. We only had the photo of the Spanish article and the translation. I cannot find it anywhere anymore. But when he finally reached the PJ his statement was very much different to the actual interview he gave to papers where he mentioned going to the house on French German boarder and meeting his actual "suspect" I am sure I have seen it!
As a freelance journalist he needed people to pay for his stories. Has it not occurred to you that this might tempt a journalist to exaggerate? Exaggerating in a police statement can have unpleasant consequences.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 01:42:43 PM
You have no evidence of such claims. The PJ have already said why they suspected the parents.
The lack of evidence of abduction the account of how the alarm was raised by KM The timeline their behaviour them believing their daughter was dead already
To name a few...
I was there all this way and this is my opinion of what happened. It is similar to the journalist who reported being suspicious of Robert Murat.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 01:52:00 PM
I was under the impression Gerry was away at the time - am I wrong?
No, you are correct. Phones had been invented and were in use by the couple on many other occasions.
My husband and I travel abroad with our work,sometime in different time zones, we still call if we need some comfort or to inform of important events- death of family member as example. Kate also had supportive parents. Gerry didn't seem too impressed that Kate did this so went onto deny it, on her behalf...
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 01:54:39 PM
Pavia had no reason to make that up. Kate denying it well... it changed the investigation to point their way.
as with all Kate and Gerry's statements and corrections and explanation after the event, can we really take this as the truth from Kate?
I think not.
I mean, two Doctors believing a guy thousands of miles away seeking eyelashes and hair to establish where their daughter was buried using a contraption Is way beyond any scientific explanation. Science fiction- hell yeah absolutely!
They really do treat their 'audience' with contempt.
How about using finger nail clippings? And, before you mock - Dr Vass worked with Martin Grime on the FBI cadaver dog programme & gave evidence at the Casey Anthony trial. He clearly spotted a gap in the market.. 8(0(* http://forensicrecoveryservices.org/breakthrough/
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 01:55:45 PM
How about using finger nail clippings? And, before you mock - Dr Vass worked with Martin Grime on the FBI cadaver dog programme & gave evidence at the Casey Anthony trial. He clearly spotted a gap in the market.. 8(0(* http://forensicrecoveryservices.org/breakthrough/
Misty, I am not mocking the request of DNA samples from Madeleine , just the fact that two doctors believed in this mumbo jumbo! AND believing she was dead. before changing their minds, about her coming to no harm.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 02:04:02 PM
I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make. Kate phoned Paiva, upset because she had a dream about Madeleine and wanted him to (presumably) assure her that they were looking for her and would take her dream seriously as some sort of premonition. And for this she is being mocked by you why exactly?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 13, 2020, 02:07:31 PM
We know where Kate and Gerry were for almost every minute of every day for several months after Madeleine's disappearance.
Do “we”?? Perhaps then you can share what was the purpose of that detour on July 26th and the sudden flurry of visits to that area. Should be easy for you if we can account for every minute .
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 02:12:41 PM
How about using finger nail clippings? And, before you mock - Dr Vass worked with Martin Grime on the FBI cadaver dog programme & gave evidence at the Casey Anthony trial. He clearly spotted a gap in the market.. 8(0(* http://forensicrecoveryservices.org/breakthrough/
Are you sure he worked with the FBI?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 02:17:37 PM
Do “we”?? Perhaps then you can share what was the purpose of that detour on July 26th and the sudden flurry of visits to that area. Should be easy for you if we can account for every minute .
Is there a particular reason why you've focused on the pings of 26th July rather than earlier T9 phone pings on the Budens mast?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 02:29:28 PM
No, you are correct. Phones had been invented and were in use by the couple on many other occasions.
My husband and I travel abroad with our work,sometime in different time zones, we still call if we need some comfort or to inform of important events- death of family member as example. Kate also had supportive parents. Gerry didn't seem too impressed that Kate did this so went onto deny it, on her behalf...
He denied she said she dreamt Madeleine was buried on a hill, that is all. As for the rest perhaps Kate called a relative first who suggested she contact Paiva, or perhaps as it was presumably night time (having just woken from a dream) she didn't want to disturb family members who may have been sleeping themselves or perhaps she felt too embarrassed to share her dream with them, and thought a policeman would be more discreet and less judgemental (not that he was either of those things as it turned out!)
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 02:36:53 PM
He denied she said she dreamt Madeleine was buried on a hill, that is all. As for the rest perhaps Kate called a relative first who suggested she contact Paiva, or perhaps as it was presumably night time (having just woken from a dream) she didn't want to disturb family members who may have been sleeping themselves or perhaps she felt too embarrassed to share her dream with them, and thought a policeman would be more discreet and less judgemental (not that he was either of those things as it turned out!)
Where is Paiva now? Did I read somewhere that he had been moved sideways?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 02:50:10 PM
He denied she said she dreamt Madeleine was buried on a hill, that is all. As for the rest perhaps Kate called a relative first who suggested she contact Paiva, or perhaps as it was presumably night time (having just woken from a dream) she didn't want to disturb family members who may have been sleeping themselves or perhaps she felt too embarrassed to share her dream with them, and thought a policeman would be more discreet and less judgemental (not that he was either of those things as it turned out!)
OK. Let's do this. he was playing on words- second hand from Kate.
Kate did not say MBM was buried on a hill.Paiva assumed this by the conversation- Kate said her dream was that MBM was on a hill and asked Paiva to search there. NOW why did Gerry not explain what Kate actually meant if Paiva misunderstood.
Search on top of a hill- which hill? why should we look for a live or dead child? what is she wearing?
You see where I am coming from. no one is mocking Kate. We are just discussing conversations which are important and the denials being pushed to protect Parents reputations.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 13, 2020, 02:56:49 PM
Do “we”?? Perhaps then you can share what was the purpose of that detour on July 26th and the sudden flurry of visits to that area. Should be easy for you if we can account for every minute .
It was the Policia Judiciaria who had them under surveillance ... the record is there in the files for all to see.
I cannot envisage that having gone to that trouble the question would not have been asked ... but then again this is Amaral's investigation we are talking about.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 03:07:20 PM
It was the Policia Judiciaria who had them under surveillance ... the record is there in the files for all to see.
I cannot envisage that having gone to that trouble the question would not have been asked ... but then again this is Amaral's investigation we are talking about.
I think Amaral was long gone in June 2008 when Inspector Paul Dias of the DCIPT in Lisbon produced his report.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 13, 2020, 04:22:28 PM
It was the Policia Judiciaria who had them under surveillance ... the record is there in the files for all to see.
I cannot envisage that having gone to that trouble the question would not have been asked ... but then again this is Amaral's investigation we are talking about.
Can you send a link to where in the files it describes what GM did on July 26th when he made that detour? Thank you.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 04:51:33 PM
OK. Let's do this. he was playing on words- second hand from Kate.
Kate did not say MBM was buried on a hill.Paiva assumed this by the conversation- Kate said her dream was that MBM was on a hill and asked Paiva to search there. NOW why did Gerry not explain what Kate actually meant if Paiva misunderstood.
Search on top of a hill- which hill? why should we look for a live or dead child? what is she wearing?
You see where I am coming from. no one is mocking Kate. We are just discussing conversations which are important and the denials being pushed to protect Parents reputations.
It was a DREAM. By their nature they are imprecise. The dream upset her. I think that’s understandable. Perhaps it’s fair to say that calling a policeman in a state about a dream is irrational behaviour but I don’t see why it should be used as either a) a stick to beat her or b) as evidence that she knew where the body was.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 13, 2020, 04:59:17 PM
It was a DREAM. By their nature they are imprecise. The dream upset her. I think that’s understandable. Perhaps it’s fair to say that calling a policeman in a state about a dream is irrational behaviour but I don’t see why it should be used as either a) a stick to beat her or b) as evidence that she knew where the body was.
What’s odd, imo, is GM has to get involved to try and put the record straight, reportedly.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 05:03:47 PM
In search of the missing Maddie McCann, the police search old wells around Praia da Luz. The place where the three-year-old disappeared 13 years ago.
The reports about the new search measures by the Portuguese colleagues caused surprise for the German investigators. "I also read about it, but the measures were not taken in consultation with the BKA or us. "The Portuguese police are investigating themselves," said Hans Christian Wolters from the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office to this editorial team. "We don't know what knowledge they are based on," he emphasizes.
Wolters suspects that the Portuguese police, startled by global attention, may have received new evidence in the Maddie McCann case, which the local police are now investigating.
The search had previously focused on three wells near the village of Vila do Obispo, reports the Spanish newspaper "The Olive Press". According to an anonymous source, it is said that the search should be intensified this week. The Portuguese TV broadcaster reports that new clues have appeared during the search. Divers are said to have been in action.
There has been repeated criticism in international media recently that investigators from Germany, Great Britain and Portugal do not coordinate sufficiently. For example, the criminologist Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez wrote on his blog: "The three main police authorities involved, Policiia Judiciaria, Soctland Yard and the Federal Criminal Police Office appear to be investigating independently of one another, not sharing all the data with one another."
For example, he suggests a joint investigation team ("Joint Investigation Team"), as is used in other international investigations. Heriberto Janosch González has been dealing with the Maddie McCann case for years as a criminologist and blogger.
Prosecutor Wolters: "We are in contact with our Portuguese and British colleagues, are in exchange, but we do not talk to each other all the time." However, investigation results would be shared with each other at the right time.
In Wolter's view, a joint investigation team makes sense especially when it comes to dynamic investigations across borders. "In our case, the evidence is complete, the suspect is in custody."
Investigators continue to hope for the big breakthrough. After the case was broadcast again on file number XY, there was no such thing as a “really big new note,” says Wolters.
Was judgment against Christian B. legal?
He and his colleagues will look to Luxembourg this week. Because here is an explosive judgment: The European Court of Justice makes a decision on Thursday whether the judgment of the Braunschweig Regional Court against Christian B. was legal for raping a US tourist.
Christian B. has filed an appeal. Portugal originally delivered the Maddie suspect to Germany for another crime. Was he allowed to be indicted and sentenced without Portugal's consent? The Federal Court of Justice has to clarify this question and has asked the European Court of Justice for clarification. Should the judgment be overturned, B. could be released early next year. “Of course we have an interest in keeping our suspect in custody. This gives us access to interrogations and in the event of an indictment, ”says Wolters.
But the investigator is still unable to say whether there will be an indictment. He expects the investigation to take a few more months. "We have no endeavors to drag this out unnecessarily. We'll draw a line at some point and see: Is it enough for an indictment or not? So the Maddie McCann case will keep us busy".
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 05:51:09 PM
German police found around 800 child torture videos on CBs property, hidden under his dead dog. On some of them CB appeared. According to his friend he was almost constantly on dark web, he was money orientated, according to his gf, if there was no money in it, her was not there. I saw nowhere that he was selling videos but being on dark web and possessing these videos would make me think he was selling them.
Also, in the online chat, which was published on German TV, he said that he would make many videos of his potential new victim.
So not a scintilla of actual evidence, simply media hysteria and paid ‘ friends’.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 06:18:52 PM
Have you any further information as to what the Portuguese are playing at, Heri?
Yes I’d be interested too....what are the PJ telling him ? Bated breath here.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 06:32:12 PM
If the German authorities are not party to this search, perhaps it's not Brueckner that the Portuguese are interested in. It's only the media that seems to be linking Brueckner & the wells.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 06:36:24 PM
If the German authorities are not party to this search, perhaps it's not Brueckner that the Portuguese are interested in. It's only the media that seems to be linking Brueckner & the wells.
Indeed.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 06:46:19 PM
If the German authorities are not party to this search, perhaps it's not Brueckner that the Portuguese are interested in. It's only the media that seems to be linking Brueckner & the wells.
Yes, they probably decided after all these years to finally get round to checking to see what Gerry was doing in the area in July 2007.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 06:48:03 PM
I love how this news of the well searches in VdB has reignited sceptic hope and lifted their spirits. Bless ‘em, I fear they are in for a major disappointment.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 07:04:00 PM
So all anyone needs to do (including Wolters) is read the newspapers?
Or is it better to trust the big brains in here? Not a single source anywhere is reporting that any force is looking for so called Smithman. Even Sandra F has changed her colours. Only a group of people is repeating the same story over and over again. Is this too much to bear?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 13, 2020, 09:15:57 PM
I just checked Portuguese press and all are saying that searches are connected to CB.
Of course because the McCanns are not suspects.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 09:19:55 PM
Perhaps a sceptic could explain how thry think it’s possible the McCanns could be responsible for any nefarious goings on wrt wells in VdB in July 2007?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 13, 2020, 09:32:17 PM
Has anyone considered the searches may be nothing to do with the McCann case? Twitter rumours ( I know, not necessarily true) are that the searches happened 3 weeks ago. There was a murder in Villa Da Bispo dated 22 May. So maybe police have been looking for a murder weapon?
I'm also going off the fact there have been no photos of these searches. Seems to me like the UK media heard rumours of a search and have jumped to the conclusion it's to find a body.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 09:34:29 PM
Has anyone considered the searches may be nothing to do with the McCann case? Twitter rumours ( I know, not necessarily true) are that the searches happened 3 weeks ago. There was a murder in Villa Da Bispo dated 22 May. So maybe police have been looking for a murder weapon?
I'm also going off the fact there have been no photos of these searches. Seems to me like the UK media heard rumours of a search and have jumped to the conclusion it's to find a body.
its been in the portuguese press too...Sandra Felgueiras a portuguese journalist seems to think its related to Breukner
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 13, 2020, 09:41:59 PM
its been in the portuguese press too...Sandra Felgueiras a portuguese journalist seems to think its related to Breukner
That's her opinion isn't it? No direct quotes from police. So I remain sceptical it has anything to do with the McCann case.
Another thing...he had wells at his former homes but the police are not searching those ones? Why wouldn't they. It would be like going to Fred West's house and deciding not to dig in the cellar.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 09:42:59 PM
Has anyone considered the searches may be nothing to do with the McCann case? Twitter rumours ( I know, not necessarily true) are that the searches happened 3 weeks ago. There was a murder in Villa Da Bispo dated 22 May. So maybe police have been looking for a murder weapon?
I'm also going off the fact there have been no photos of these searches. Seems to me like the UK media heard rumours of a search and have jumped to the conclusion it's to find a body.
Sandra Felgueiras is the journalist who believed amaral and then realised he had lied to her over the McCann case
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 09:44:45 PM
That's her opinion isn't it? No direct quotes from police. So I remain sceptical it has anything to do with the McCann case.
Another thing...he had wells at his former homes but the police are not searching those ones? Why wouldn't they. It would be like going to Fred West's house and deciding not to dig in the cellar.
They already searched those wells I believe. Probably a coincidence and were looking for something else entirely.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 09:44:51 PM
Has anyone considered the searches may be nothing to do with the McCann case? Twitter rumours ( I know, not necessarily true) are that the searches happened 3 weeks ago. There was a murder in Villa Da Bispo dated 22 May. So maybe police have been looking for a murder weapon?
I'm also going off the fact there have been no photos of these searches. Seems to me like the UK media heard rumours of a search and have jumped to the conclusion it's to find a body.
They are all saying PJ is searching for Maddie and connected to CB
And this is what RTP ( government owned TV) is saying: RTP knows that searches have already been carried out in Vila do Bispo. The PJ searched for the body of the English child inside wells. Madeleine Maccan disappeared 13 years ago in Praia da Luz. The Friday at 9 program, meanwhile, discovered more clues that make it increasingly plausible that German Christian Bruckner is the perpetrator of this crime.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 09:48:16 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8422095/Portuguese-police-prepare-search-wells-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckners-Praia-da-Luz-villa.html Probably to do with some murder of some old guy, or maybe they thought this was the well used by the McCanns, almost certainly a coincidence that these wells were by Brückner’s properties
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 09:50:06 PM
Or is it better to trust the big brains in here? Not a single source anywhere is reporting that any force is looking for so called Smithman. Even Sandra F has changed her colours. Only a group of people is repeating the same story over and over again. Is this too much to bear?
You can believe anything you like, but imo relying on press reports is naive.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 13, 2020, 09:50:42 PM
Sandra Felgueiras is the journalist who believed amaral and then realised he had lied to her over the McCann case
And....she has an opinion, doesn't mean it's right.
Some have even said she is biased against him because her mother, a politician was done for fraud. Who knows? I don't trust reports based on anonymous sources very much.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
That's her opinion isn't it? No direct quotes from police. So I remain sceptical it has anything to do with the McCann case.
Another thing...he had wells at his former homes but the police are not searching those ones? Why wouldn't they. It would be like going to Fred West's house and deciding not to dig in the cellar.
Your original post was taht this was an invention of the UK press...are you backtracking now.. I would say you remain in denial rather than sceptical.. They may be acting on intelligence and may well search the wells at and near his home
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 09:51:14 PM
And....she has an opinion, doesn't mean it's right.
Some have even said she is biased against him because her mother, a politician was done for fraud. Who knows? I don't trust reports based on anonymous sources very much.
I think you are entering conspiracy territory....Sandra Felgueiras accused amaral live on TV of lying to her...he does haveb a conviction for it
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 09:53:03 PM
They are all saying PJ is searching for Maddie and connected to CB
And this is what RTP ( government owned TV) is saying: RTP knows that searches have already been carried out in Vila do Bispo. The PJ searched for the body of the English child inside wells. Madeleine Maccan disappeared 13 years ago in Praia da Luz. The Friday at 9 program, meanwhile, discovered more clues that make it increasingly plausible that German Christian Bruckner is the perpetrator of this crime.
And yet, another reporter, says RTP have not been 'catagoric'.
''The latest searches in wells near beaches around Vila do Bispo that the now 43-year-old is said to have frequented close to the time that Madeleine went missing, appear not to have revealed any human remains.
However different sources are asserting different ‘truths’.
For example, British online The World News, claims “Portuguese police say they now have “fundamental evidence” Madeleine McCann is dead”.
Portuguese state broadcaster RTP is cited as the source – but news outlets here are nothing like as ‘categoric’.
Indeed, it’s difficult to see where The World News gets its information – certainly not from RTP – though the channel’s Sexta às 9 investigative programme admits its own reporters have “found new leads that make it more plausible that Christian Brückner was the author of this crime”.
Again, this is said with reference to alleged sex ‘crimes’ – none of which have involved children of Madeleine’s age.
In every case, the incidents cited by Sexta às 9 have been with young adolescents.''
Your original post was taht this was an invention of the UK press...are you backtracking now.. I would say you remain in denial rather than sceptical.. They may be acting on intelligence and may well search the wells at and near his home
No, I never said the press invented the searches and I have not backtracked. There is no direct quote from any police and Sandra hasn't given one so it's her opinion.
Even you just said 'may' as in nothing is known for sure. I don't see how that's denial.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:00:40 PM
And yet, another reporter, says she's RTP have not been 'catagoric'.
''The latest searches in wells near beaches around Vila do Bispo that the now 43-year-old is said to have frequented close to the time that Madeleine went missing, appear not to have revealed any human remains.
However different sources are asserting different ‘truths’.
For example, British online The World News, claims “Portuguese police say they now have “fundamental evidence” Madeleine McCann is dead”.
Portuguese state broadcaster RTP is cited as the source – but news outlets here are nothing like as ‘categoric’.
Indeed, it’s difficult to see where The World News gets its information – certainly not from RTP – though the channel’s Sexta às 9 investigative programme admits its own reporters have “found new leads that make it more plausible that Christian Brückner was the author of this crime”.
Again, this is said with reference to alleged sex ‘crimes’ – none of which have involved children of Madeleine’s age.
In every case, the incidents cited by Sexta às 9 have been with young adolescents.''
No, I never said the press invented the searches and I have not backtracked. There is no direct quote from any police and Sandra hasn't given one so it's her opinion.
Even you just said 'may' as in nothing is known for sure. I don't see how that's denial.
do you deny this too... Seems to me like the UK media heard rumours of a search and have jumped to the conclusion it's to find a body.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:04:45 PM
do you deny this too... Seems to me like the UK media heard rumours of a search and have jumped to the conclusion it's to find a body.
That's my opinion based on the facts that a man was murdered in Villa Bispo a couple of weeks before and the fact there is no official source of what the well searches are about.
It's an opinion just like Sandra's. I'm sure just a few weeks ago you wouldn't accept any news report I cited even the ones with direct quotes from police. Now an opinion is fine if it's a journalist you like?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:18:28 PM
That's my opinion based on the facts that a man was murdered in Villa Bispo a couple of weeks before and the fact there is no official source of what the well searches are about.
It's an opinion just like Sandra's. I'm sure just a few weeks ago you wouldn't accept any news report I cited even the ones with direct quotes from police. Now an opinion is fine if it's a journalist you like?
Its not just one journalist.....you need to wake up. Again ...third time...do you accept these searches could relate to Breukner...or is your mind totally closed as I suspect
Could you provide acite for the news report I would not accept....I think you may be twisting the facts
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 10:19:04 PM
And yet, another reporter, says RTP have not been 'catagoric'.
''The latest searches in wells near beaches around Vila do Bispo that the now 43-year-old is said to have frequented close to the time that Madeleine went missing, appear not to have revealed any human remains.
However different sources are asserting different ‘truths’.
For example, British online The World News, claims “Portuguese police say they now have “fundamental evidence” Madeleine McCann is dead”.
Portuguese state broadcaster RTP is cited as the source – but news outlets here are nothing like as ‘categoric’.
Indeed, it’s difficult to see where The World News gets its information – certainly not from RTP – though the channel’s Sexta às 9 investigative programme admits its own reporters have “found new leads that make it more plausible that Christian Brückner was the author of this crime”.
Again, this is said with reference to alleged sex ‘crimes’ – none of which have involved children of Madeleine’s age.
In every case, the incidents cited by Sexta às 9 have been with young adolescents.''
So you think CB has no history of child abuse? You don't trust the German prosecutor's words? Nor the judges who prosecuted him earlier for child abuse?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 10:20:19 PM
Refusing to accept that the press report real live news events is pretty stupid imo.
They reported that some wells were searched; that's probably true. The reason for the searches is, imo, probably speculation. The naive and stupid swallow it all, imo.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:22:29 PM
They reported that some wells were searched; that's probably true. The reason for the searches is, imo, probably speculation. The naive and stupid swallow it all, imo.
The naive and stupid deny its anything to do with Breukner, imo
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 10:23:31 PM
So you accepted it when the media initially reported MM's blood/DNA was found in the apartment? *&^^&
At the time I was fully prepared to accept that the police had found evidence against the McCanns. Of course, many news reports are only as good as their sources but you have to use common sense as well. It makes perfect sense that the searches in Portugal have been triggered by the investigation into CB, and it makes no sense whatsoever to believe that the police are searching wells on his old properties and in VDB because they think that’s where the McCanns dumped the body - in late July!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
They reported that some wells were searched; that's probably true. The reason for the searches is, imo, probably speculation. The naive and stupid swallow it all, imo.
So it’s “probably true” that they searched wells on CB’s old properties but naive and stupid to believe it has anything to do with CB. Right you are dear.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:25:41 PM
The first activation happened at 16:41:06 on the antenna "Faro Airport". One minute and twenty seconds later the same antenna came to be activated, being followed by the antennae:
"Pedra de ?ua"; "Boliqueime"; "Vila do Bispo"; "Budens" and "Praia da Luz" at 17:31:23, 17:32:27, 19:05:21, 19:10:35 and 19:49:38,
does this palce gerry in these places...it seems he wasnt in Lagos when his phone pinged there,...it was simply due to the traffic on the Luz antennae.
The records remain with the repeaters of that village until 13:52:29pm on 13th.
The activation immediately following was registered at 13:52:42pm on the antenna called "Lagos".
Due to its proximity [closeness] to the preceding record, less than 13 seconds (13:52:29); it is difficult to admit that Gerald had actually gone to Lagos, although that may have happened, it being enough to find oneself in an area of transition between the two antennae; or he may not have left Luz, but it had been the antenna? of "Lagos" supporting [accepting] the signal due to the large volume of traffic in the antennae of the village of Luz.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 13, 2020, 10:28:38 PM
Its not just one journalist.....you need to wake up. Again ...third time...do you accept these searches could relate to Breukner...or is your mind totally closed as I suspect
Could you provide acite for the news report I would not accept....I think you may be twisting the facts
I'm not twisting anything Davel. It was probably a month ago it was a direct quote from Hans Wolter. And you asked me if the quote was from a video or a paper, I said paper and you decided that wasn't good enough. That's how I remember it.
Some Portuguese press reported nothing was found in the well searches and this was days before all the other papers repeated the story minus that fact. The media repeat things, repetition doesn't make things more valid.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:31:57 PM
I'm not twisting anything Davel. It was probably a month ago it was a direct quote from Hans Wolter. And you asked me if the quote was from a video or a paper, I said paper and you decided that wasn't good enough. That's how I remember it.
Some Portuguese press reported nothing was found in the well searches and this was days before all the other papers repeated the story minus that fact. The media repeat things, repetition doesn't make things more valid.
if its from paper it isnt good enough...i think most sensible people realise that papers dont always quote exactly. Just as all thes e newsapper reports may not be 100% correct...but Im pretty sure wells are being searched and pretty sure its related to Breukner
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 10:32:18 PM
So you accepted it when the media initially reported MM's blood/DNA was found in the apartment? *&^^&
I remember people believing it when the press said that OG were searching for Louisa Todorov because she was the 'woman in purple' and she had disappeared. She wasn't and she hadn't.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 10:33:39 PM
if its from paper it isnt good enough...i think most sensible people realise that papers dont always quote exactly. Just as all thes e newsapper reports may not be 100% correct...but Im pretty sure wells are being searched and pretty sure its related to Breukner
Someone should ask the Portugues Rent-A-Gob what’s going on, I’m sure he’ll know.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 10:35:04 PM
That's my opinion based on the facts that a man was murdered in Villa Bispo a couple of weeks before and the fact there is no official source of what the well searches are about.
It's an opinion just like Sandra's. I'm sure just a few weeks ago you wouldn't accept any news report I cited even the ones with direct quotes from police. Now an opinion is fine if it's a journalist you like?
Are you referring to the Dutchman who was found dead, possibly murdered, in his home on 21st May 2020?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 10:35:47 PM
does this palce gerry in these places...it seems he wasnt in Lagos when his phone pinged there,...it was simply due to the traffic on the Luz antennae.
The records remain with the repeaters of that village until 13:52:29pm on 13th.
The activation immediately following was registered at 13:52:42pm on the antenna called "Lagos".
Due to its proximity [closeness] to the preceding record, less than 13 seconds (13:52:29); it is difficult to admit that Gerald had actually gone to Lagos, although that may have happened, it being enough to find oneself in an area of transition between the two antennae; or he may not have left Luz, but it had been the antenna? of "Lagos" supporting [accepting] the signal due to the large volume of traffic in the antennae of the village of Luz.
I expect that could apply to anyone, Brueckner included.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:35:57 PM
I remember people believing it when the press said that OG were searching for Louisa Todorov because she was the 'woman in purple' and she had disappeared. She wasn't and she hadn't.
I think you are making assumptions as to what people beleive...and I think on the whole your assumptions are wide of the mark.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:38:00 PM
I expect that could apply to anyone, Brueckner included.
At least you admit the phone pings do not necesarily place gerry in these places. i think we need to leave it to the experts in this case as its probably quite an exact science
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 10:38:30 PM
I remember people believing it when the press said that OG were searching for Louisa Todorov because she was the 'woman in purple' and she had disappeared. She wasn't and she hadn't.
Do you have a cite for your allegation?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:40:38 PM
No, the allegation that there were people here who believed this newspaper report unquestioningly . Also do you have a cite confirming that the police were not looking for a woman in purple in Bulgaria?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 10:53:02 PM
I'm not twisting anything Davel. It was probably a month ago it was a direct quote from Hans Wolter. And you asked me if the quote was from a video or a paper, I said paper and you decided that wasn't good enough. That's how I remember it.
Some Portuguese press reported nothing was found in the well searches and this was days before all the other papers repeated the story minus that fact. The media repeat things, repetition doesn't make things more valid.
Yes it does. It’s called the illusion of truth effect and is the bedrock of most propaganda.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 10:54:37 PM
some poeple hae biased memeories...only this morning Kizzy was making false claims re Sutton based on a newspaper article
Which he repeated to Martin Blunt;
Asked to clarify what he meant, he added: 'The Scotland Yard investigation was going to be very narrowly focused and that focus would be away from any suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of the McCanns or the tapas friends.'
Asked to clarify what he meant, he added: 'The Scotland Yard investigation was going to be very narrowly focused and that focus would be away from any suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of the McCanns or the tapas friends.'
Asked to clarify what he meant, he added: 'The Scotland Yard investigation was going to be very narrowly focused and that focus would be away from any suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of the McCanns or the tapas friends.'
Another professional mercilessly trolled because he wasn’t singing from the parents song sheet.
From the poster who laughed at the trolling of Sandra F ..y
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 11:08:34 PM
Notice how those who don’t believe a single solitary word published in the press still seem to believe it completely when it’s reported the Germans have said the well searches are nothing to do with them. Double standards, what?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 11:21:17 PM
From the poster who laughed at the trolling of Sandra F ..y
Did I ? When ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 11:27:59 PM
Did Sandra F say on her at 9 programme that PJ was intentionally protecting CB? https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/07/11/in-depth-police-in-portugal-start-searching-wells-in-maddie-mccann-case-as-investigations-intensify/
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 13, 2020, 11:38:01 PM
Notice how those who don’t believe a single solitary word published in the press still seem to believe it completely when it’s reported the Germans have said the well searches are nothing to do with them. Double standards, what?
I think any "double standards" are from those posters who pedal media stories as objective truth but only when it supports their particular agenda.
Of course much of what is detailed in the media is valid news reporting. But we also know that mistakes are sometimes repeated and the public view of an objective truth can be blurred. You also need to consider power, politics, vested interests, financial and other agendas. The media is a valuable tool as a source for information but it also has inherent dangers. Look what was reported on Saddam Hussein's alleged WMD, for example.You could blame some of the errors on lies fed to the press by politicians but the media itself can be partisan and a tool in itself to spread what can only be described as propaganda.
Any criminal case will not be solved by reviewing media stories even though many are valid and fairly reported, The key however is evidence. All of us here only have a limited access to the evidence. None of us can claim with much integrity to know for certain what happened to MM.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 11:39:52 PM
Did Sandra F say on her at 9 programme that PJ was intentionally protecting CB? https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/07/11/in-depth-police-in-portugal-start-searching-wells-in-maddie-mccann-case-as-investigations-intensify/
It’s truly surprising that while Brueckner was talking to all and sundry about kidnapping people, making rape videos etc etc etc not one of them went to the police with the information. Seems a chequebook speaks louder than a conscience.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 11:44:25 PM
It’s truly surprising that while Brueckner was talking to all and sundry about kidnapping people, making rape videos etc etc etc not one of them went to the police with the information. Seems a chequebook speaks louder than a conscience.
One can only wonder, then, why none of them wanted the £1m reward money in 2007.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 13, 2020, 11:45:07 PM
I think any "double standards" are from those posters who pedal media stories as objective truth but only when it supports their particular agenda.
Of course much of what is detailed in the media is valid news reporting. But we also know that mistakes are sometimes repeated and the public view of an objective truth can be blurred. You also need to consider power, politics, vested interests, financial and other agendas. The media is a valuable tool as a source for information but it also has inherent dangers. Look what was reported on Saddam Hussein's alleged WMD, for example.You could blame some of the errors on lies fed to the press by politicians but the media itself can be partisan and a tool in itself to spread what can only be described as propaganda.
Any criminal case will not be solved by reviewing media stories even though many are valid and fairly reported, The key however is evidence. All of us here only have a limited access to the evidence. None of us can claim with much integrity to know for certain what happened to MM.
Erm, yeah whatever. Why you should think that Portugal is engaging in a propaganda war by reporting on searches of wells connected to Bruckner I really have no idea, and I doubt you could ever articulate it either because it’s just plain silly.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 11:49:39 PM
One can only wonder, then, why none of them wanted the £1m reward money in 2007.
This is what was thinking about. But it seems no one suspected him back in 2007, except for the British girlfriend who said that she openly asked him if he kidnapped Madeleine. One of the girlfriends said they thought he was into old ladies. Nobody knew he liked children. I wonder if anyone actually died for the reason of knowing the truth? Remember the old German man who died while taking a walk? Or the tractorman?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 11:51:45 PM
I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 11:52:39 PM
One can only wonder, then, why none of them wanted the £1m reward money in 2007.
Because they hadn’t thought up their stories yet ? Any relationship with Brueckner was only able to be monetised after he was given suspect status by the German police.
Of course the SY reward would come in handy too no doubt.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 11:56:11 PM
There is a reward now from Germany. But TBH I doubt anyone ever claimed any police reward money.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 11:57:31 PM
I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic.
Or Madeleine’s poor body will be found in a well, having died horrifically. Brueckner will be charged, the parents will be exonerated and their supporters will have the pleasure of saying I told you so.
Poor Madeleine.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2020, 11:59:02 PM
This is what was thinking about. But it seems no one suspected him back in 2007, except for the British girlfriend who said that she openly asked him if he kidnapped Madeleine. One of the girlfriends said they thought he was into old ladies. Nobody knew he liked children. I wonder if anyone actually died for the reason of knowing the truth? Remember the old German man who died while taking a walk? Or the tractorman?
I think few very people knew what he allegedly did. Possibly knowledge was limited to the person who ordered the abduction & an accomplice on the night. IMO CB, if guilty, was not proud of this particular crime so wouldn't have boasted about it. It would be helpful if I could find a picture of Romano S, NF's husband, from around 2007.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 14, 2020, 12:09:16 AM
I think few very people knew what he allegedly did. Possibly knowledge was limited to the person who ordered the abduction & an accomplice on the night. IMO CB, if guilty, was not proud of this particular crime so wouldn't have boasted about it. It would be helpful if I could find a picture of Romano S, NF's husband, from around 2007.
I've seen his picture. He had longish hair, black. I think this was an old Myspace account. I wonder why do you think about him? After they split up CB became her partner, if we are to trust Sandra F.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 12:11:57 AM
No, the allegation that there were people here who believed this newspaper report unquestioningly . Also do you have a cite confirming that the police were not looking for a woman in purple in Bulgaria?
Why would they be?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Erngath on July 14, 2020, 12:20:31 AM
Or Madeleine’s poor body will be found in a well, having died horrifically. Brueckner will be charged, the parents will be exonerated and their supporters will have the pleasure of saying I told you so.
Poor Madeleine.
What an utterly ghastly post. Shameful!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 14, 2020, 12:22:24 AM
I've seen his picture. He had longish hair, black. I think this was an old Myspace account. I wonder why do you think about him? After they split up CB became her partner, if we are to trust Sandra F.
I saw that photo but it's not dated so I don't know if that's actually Romano S. or someone she met later. I just wondered if he fitted Tannerman's description.
ETA Just translated the German beside the photo & it is her husband, just no date.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: barrier on July 14, 2020, 06:35:04 AM
I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic.
You never know in your dismissive post you may have touched upon part of the truth.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Anthro on July 14, 2020, 06:44:33 AM
I think few very people knew what he allegedly did. Possibly knowledge was limited to the person who ordered the abduction & an accomplice on the night. IMO CB, if guilty, was not proud of this particular crime so wouldn't have boasted about it. It would be helpful if I could find a picture of Romano S, NF's husband, from around 2007.
Romano’s surname is Scott?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 06:58:26 AM
I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic.
Wasnt there a pink blanket as well
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 07:13:23 AM
I can see where this is all leading now. PJ have had an anonymous tip off about where to find the body & it will be located in Gerry's blue tennis bag at the bottom of a well. The concrete evidence Germans have will turn out to have been faked & planted by MI6. The McCanns will be extradited to Portugal on a murder charge just in time for EAW's to still be valid. Hic.
Don't panic, dear. I know it's a testing time having your entire belief system shattered, but try to remain calm.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 08:13:22 AM
Don't panic, dear. I know it's a testing time having your entire belief system shattered, but try to remain calm.
I’m panicking. It’s clear that the latest developments all point to it being the McCanns, especially the well searches on CB’s old properties. What a cunning smokescreen the German police have engineered. Make the world, including the McCanns think they’re onto some two-bit paedo, when all along they knew it was Gerry that tossed her down the well. Brilliant!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 08:18:40 AM
Double edge sword it seems.
WAITING FOR NEWS Madeleine McCann’s parents are ‘on tenterhooks’ as Portuguese police launch new search
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: barrier on July 14, 2020, 08:38:08 AM
Its in the bastion of truth, the mail,just a rehash of the story from yesterday with one or two add on's.
German prosecutors leading probe into Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner say they were NOT told about plans to search wells for her body and do not know what prompted hunt
Its in the bastion of truth, the mail,just a rehash of the story from yesterday with one or two add on's.
German prosecutors leading probe into Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner say they were NOT told about plans to search wells for her body and do not know what prompted hunt
I’m panicking. It’s clear that the latest developments all point to it being the McCanns, especially the well searches on CB’s old properties. What a cunning smokescreen the German police have engineered. Make the world, including the McCanns think they’re onto some two-bit paedo, when all along they knew it was Gerry that tossed her down the well. Brilliant!
Gerry would be Oh so pleased to get his bag back again.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 08:43:42 AM
I’m panicking. It’s clear that the latest developments all point to it being the McCanns, especially the well searches on CB’s old properties. What a cunning smokescreen the German police have engineered. Make the world, including the McCanns think they’re onto some two-bit paedo, when all along they knew it was Gerry that tossed her down the well. Brilliant!
I knew it. But you do need to remain calm and think it through. Having your entire paradigm flipped will invoke the type of reaction you allude to, but it's a physiological response to the confusion. Welcome to the fold.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 14, 2020, 09:05:06 AM
It was always going to be that. Which is why I cannot imagine the apparent need for some to get the boot in when people are waiting for news of their daughter and hoping she is still alive. The hatred reached crescendo when Scotland Yard were searching for her in the environs of Luz.
Do you know if there is graffiti on the walls this time saying the Portuguese police are stupid?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 14, 2020, 09:17:33 AM
It was always going to be that. Which is why I cannot imagine the apparent need for some to get the boot in when people are waiting for news of their daughter and hoping she is still alive. The hatred reached crescendo when Scotland Yard were searching for her in the environs of Luz.
Do you know if there is graffiti on the walls this time saying the Portuguese police are stupid?
Which was my point some indeterminate time in the past; they're still holding on to hope, and any parent should, so every possible means should be explored to find out exactly what it is the Germans are so sure of - again, as a parent. I'd be in the press, on a plane over there, thumping on their door demanding answers. Maybe that's just me. And that's not a criticism of the McCann's, as they may have reached out and been rebuffed already.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 09:30:30 AM
I knew it. But you do need to remain calm and think it through. Having your entire paradigm flipped will invoke the type of reaction you allude to, but it's a physiological response to the confusion. Welcome to the fold.
You're right, I'm not sure how I will cope having all my prejudices and beliefs tossed down a well so to speak. I do hope the police explain how Gerry managed to retrieve the body en route back from the airport and do the deed months after their daughter went missing. I'm sure there's a very simple explanation.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 09:30:50 AM
It was always going to be that. Which is why I cannot imagine the apparent need for some to get the boot in when people are waiting for news of their daughter and hoping she is still alive. The hatred reached crescendo when Scotland Yard were searching for her in the environs of Luz.
Do you know if there is graffiti on the walls this time saying the Portuguese police are stupid?
Hatred doesn't come into it... so why you trying to make it out that way just seems like gossip imo
Simply because I don't believe Maddie was abducted so why would I care for the mccs.
My concern is what Maddies fate was.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 09:36:21 AM
You're right, I'm not sure how I will cope having all my prejudices and beliefs tossed down a well so to speak. I do hope the police explain how Gerry managed to retrieve the body en route back from the airport and do the deed months after their daughter went missing. I'm sure there's a very simple explanation.
I didn't read your response in full, but I'm sure your hopes will be fulfilled in the fullness of time.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: VIXTE on July 14, 2020, 09:44:32 AM
Its in the bastion of truth, the mail,just a rehash of the story from yesterday with one or two add on's.
German prosecutors leading probe into Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner say they were NOT told about plans to search wells for her body and do not know what prompted hunt
Makes sense if the well searches are not to do with Bruckner, the PJ wouldn't be telling them about an unrelated case.
Also some reports say 'nothing' was found. So the theory of having intelligence on Bruckner can't be right unless it is very poor intelligence ( bit like the burglator searches in 2014), which leads to the question why would the PJ make the effort?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 14, 2020, 10:51:27 AM
How comes the world's media isn't camped as near as they can get to these wells? Is covid hampering?
It would be an incredibly boring, expensive and pointless exercise for the media to be camped next to the wells out in the boondocks. What would you be expecting? Hourly updates? Interviews with divers? Lengthy discourse on the history and geography of the locale and its well system? It could drag on for weeks and be ultimately fruitless so I think that probably answers your question.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Myster on July 14, 2020, 11:08:37 AM
By the time the world's media got wind of it, the secret PJ diving expedition had upped sticks and disappeared.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 14, 2020, 11:20:19 AM
It would be an incredibly boring, expensive and pointless exercise for the media to be camped next to the wells out in the boondocks. What would you be expecting? Hourly updates? Interviews with divers? Lengthy discourse on the history and geography of the locale and its well system? It could drag on for weeks and be ultimately fruitless so I think that probably answers your question.
The world's media has camped in/around PDL in the past over fruitless searches.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 14, 2020, 11:29:25 AM
The area, incl beyond PDL, was combed with a fine tooth comb under the guidance of search expert Mark Harrison.
The wells are surrounded by vegetation which would have shown signs of disturbance at the time if anyone had gone up to them by any means ie foot, vehicle etc.
There's zero evidence MM was disposed of in a well.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 11:35:37 AM
The area, incl beyond PDL, was combed with a fine tooth comb under the guidance of search expert Mark Harrison.
The wells are surrounded by vegetation which would have shown signs of disturbance at the time if anyone had gone up to them by any means ie foot, vehicle etc.
There's zero evidence MM was disposed of in a well.
Unless it's a kitsch Wishing well in an English country garden.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 14, 2020, 11:39:04 AM
The area, incl beyond PDL, was combed with a fine tooth comb under the guidance of search expert Mark Harrison.
The wells are surrounded by vegetation which would have shown signs of disturbance at the time if anyone had gone up to them by any means ie foot, vehicle etc.
There's zero evidence MM was disposed of in a well.
You may be right, but would the Portuguese waste time and effort on a wild goose chase? I'm sure they've got more productive things to be getting on with.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 11:41:25 AM
Then they'll be in an even better position to know it's a waste of time and resources sending them in again.
Why did the press go to PdL when the appeals were first issued by the UK and Germany then? That was a waste of time, especially with restrictions on travel.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 01:43:30 PM
Why did the press go to PdL when the appeals were first issued by the UK and Germany then? That was a waste of time, especially with restrictions on travel.
Because it was the biggest news story about this case in many years and gave them all an excuse to get out of Covid Britain and into the sunshine I expect. Do you think there's something significant in the fact that the world's press haven'tapparently set up camp in the Portuguese outback, next to some wells? Do you expect them to show no interest if and when something is found?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Eleanor on July 14, 2020, 01:49:51 PM
You may be right, but would the Portuguese waste time and effort on a wild goose chase? I'm sure they've got more productive things to be getting on with.
Like sorting out their Paedophile Problem.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 14, 2020, 02:00:08 PM
Good luck with that - anywhere! Have a quick squizz at your local nonce tracker - they're everywhere.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 14, 2020, 02:38:37 PM
So apparently Dutch press were linking the death of this man to the McCann case which his partner said was incorrect. This article is dated 11th June, so may explain why searches in the area this guy died have been linked to Bruckner.
'Let's talk again about the murder of Kenny Dijksma (60), who was found on Thursday 21 May with his skull broken into his house in Vila do Bispo, Portugal. On Tuesday we had his ex-partner in good friend Elma on the phone. She is quite angry. Not on us, but on a large Dutch daily newspaper, which by name will be left out. In that newspaper, Kenny's murder is surreptitiously associated with the loss of Maddie McCann. "Very sneaky," says Elma, who shared the joys and sorrows with Kenny for a long time, seven years in Portugal. “It is such an atmosphere report from from Algarve, where people supposedly remark in general that both Christian Brückner and Kenny were in the drug environment and must have known each other. What nonsense all. When Maddie was murdered Kenny was not even in Portugal. And that of those drugs is a complete joke. ”
So apparently Dutch press were linking the death of this man to the McCann case which his partner said was incorrect. This article is dated 11th June, so may explain why searches in the area this guy died have been linked to Bruckner.
'Let's talk again about the murder of Kenny Dijksma (60), who was found on Thursday 21 May with his skull broken into his house in Vila do Bispo, Portugal. On Tuesday we had his ex-partner in good friend Elma on the phone. She is quite angry. Not on us, but on a large Dutch daily newspaper, which by name will be left out. In that newspaper, Kenny's murder is surreptitiously associated with the loss of Maddie McCann. "Very sneaky," says Elma, who shared the joys and sorrows with Kenny for a long time, seven years in Portugal. “It is such an atmosphere report from from Algarve, where people supposedly remark in general that both Christian Brückner and Kenny were in the drug environment and must have known each other. What nonsense all. When Maddie was murdered Kenny was not even in Portugal. And that of those drugs is a complete joke. ”
So apparently Dutch press were linking the death of this man to the McCann case which his partner said was incorrect. This article is dated 11th June, so may explain why searches in the area this guy died have been linked to Bruckner.
'Let's talk again about the murder of Kenny Dijksma (60), who was found on Thursday 21 May with his skull broken into his house in Vila do Bispo, Portugal. On Tuesday we had his ex-partner in good friend Elma on the phone. She is quite angry. Not on us, but on a large Dutch daily newspaper, which by name will be left out. In that newspaper, Kenny's murder is surreptitiously associated with the loss of Maddie McCann. "Very sneaky," says Elma, who shared the joys and sorrows with Kenny for a long time, seven years in Portugal. “It is such an atmosphere report from from Algarve, where people supposedly remark in general that both Christian Brückner and Kenny were in the drug environment and must have known each other. What nonsense all. When Maddie was murdered Kenny was not even in Portugal. And that of those drugs is a complete joke. ”
Because it was the biggest news story about this case in many years and gave them all an excuse to get out of Covid Britain and into the sunshine I expect. Do you think there's something significant in the fact that the world's press haven'tapparently set up camp in the Portuguese outback, next to some wells? Do you expect them to show no interest if and when something is found?
It must have been about the sun, because nothing at all was happening in Portugal.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 02:49:50 PM
We'll see, won't we? What about your theory the searches are based on intelligence to do with Bruckner? Nothing has been found and the Germans have no idea what the searches are about.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 14, 2020, 02:56:16 PM
You may be right, but would the Portuguese waste time and effort on a wild goose chase? I'm sure they've got more productive things to be getting on with.
I meant at the time not now. Assuming the wells have been searched recently, and it's not just tabloid fodder, it might be connected to something entirely different.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 14, 2020, 03:00:53 PM
Were the GNR, the firefighters and the divers searching other wells? When and where?
I have no idea, the pressed reported that the PJ were "considering" searching the wells on his properties back in mid June. Perhaps they simply couldn't be arsed in the end. That wouldn't surprise me at all. So yes, you're probably right, this well searching atm is just an enormous coincidence, most likely looking for evidence against the McCanns.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 14, 2020, 03:08:35 PM
Unless it's a kitsch Wishing well in an English country garden.
You jest but you and others here seem to rule people in and out based on perception ie is this person likely/unlikely to abduct a child?! The difficulty for the CB dunnit brigade is how would he know MM was home alone in the unsecured property? The explanations put forward are unconvincing eg he was tipped off by an OC employee or it was a random burglary and he struck lucky. How would OC employees know the patio door was unsecured since no one could observe this from TB. No one reported a burglary on night of 3rd May so out of all the properties in PDL he just happened to strike lucky in that the one he stumbled across was unsecured with a small sleeping child home alone. Statistical probability of these events happening simultaneously make it implausible imo.
My theory doesn't need to overcome these obstacles. Its based on who knew the Mc's MO not whether I think this person or that person seems likely/unlikely especially when the motive is unknown.
Many seem to want to believe CB dunnit as he's a drifter, petty criminal and sexual deviant. Whereas my suspects appear to be law abiding, middle class and middle aged. But no one knows the motive. Even if the motive was sexual why rule out the latter when they're an unknown quantity?!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 14, 2020, 03:09:21 PM
I have no idea, the pressed reported that the PJ were "considering" searching the wells on his properties back in mid June. Perhaps they simply couldn't be arsed in the end. That wouldn't surprise me at all. So yes, you're probably right, this well searching atm is just an enormous coincidence, most likely looking for evidence against the McCanns.
Or the press reports about PJ considering wells on CB's land were just an assumption by the UK press or came from dubious anonymous sources and it was never true. That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
You jest but you and others here seem to rule people in and out based on perception ie is this person likely/unlikely to abduct a child?! The difficulty for the CB dunnit brigade is how would he know MM was home alone in the unsecured property? The explanations put forward are unconvincing eg he was tipped off by an OC employee or it was a random burglary and he struck lucky. How would OC employees know the patio door was unsecured since no one could observe this from TB. No one reported a burglary on night of 3rd May so out of all the properties in PDL he just happened to strike lucky in that the one he stumbled across was unsecured with a small sleeping child home alone. Statistical probability of these events happening simultaneously make it implausible imo.
My theory doesn't need to overcome these obstacles. Its based on who knew the Mc's MO not whether I think this person or that person seems likely/unlikely especially when the motive is unknown.
Many seem to want to believe CB dunnit as he's a drifter, petty criminal and sexual deviant. Whereas my suspects appear to be law abiding, middle class and middle aged. But no one knows the motive. Even if the motive was sexual why rule out the latter when they're an unknown quantity?!
You are quite dismissive of the sensible CB dunnit brigade so im sure wou will accept that most posters think your idea is quite barmy and the CB dunnit brigade a reasonable possibility
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 03:41:56 PM
I have no idea, the pressed reported that the PJ were "considering" searching the wells on his properties back in mid June. Perhaps they simply couldn't be arsed in the end. That wouldn't surprise me at all. So yes, you're probably right, this well searching atm is just an enormous coincidence, most likely looking for evidence against the McCanns.
You've been sucked in to the hyperbole. Come back when you've got a plot plan of which wells were searched, where and when. I guarantee you will not find them, but I'll give you a clue - have a look at where Kenny lived on Google Earth.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 03:42:42 PM
You are quite dismissive of the sensible CB dunnit brigade so im sure wou will accept that most posters think your idea is quite barmy and the CB dunnit brigade a reasonable possibility
Conduct a straw poll.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 03:47:29 PM
I have no idea, the pressed reported that the PJ were "considering" searching the wells on his properties back in mid June. Perhaps they simply couldn't be arsed in the end. That wouldn't surprise me at all. So yes, you're probably right, this well searching atm is just an enormous coincidence, most likely looking for evidence against the McCanns.
In my opinion your post was misleading;
"Do you think there's every chance the PJ were looking for evidence connected to Kenny's murder down wells on CB's old properties too?"
Obviously the answer is no, because there's no evidence that the PJ looked in those wells. In future you should provide cites imo.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 14, 2020, 04:17:24 PM
You are quite dismissive of the sensible CB dunnit brigade so im sure wou will accept that most posters think your idea is quite barmy and the CB dunnit brigade a reasonable possibility
You are quite dismissive about the Mc's dunnit brigade which at least doesn't have to overcome the obstacles of how the perp knew MM was home alone in the unsecured patio door.
There is no sensible CB brigade because you can't explain how he knew about MM home alone AND the unsecured patio door.
I have no problem whatsoever with others not sharing my views.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 14, 2020, 04:26:14 PM
When are these from, the advent of photography itself?
Google Earth. 3 wells easily accessible & visible from the road between Budens & Boco do Rio. Never mind, I'm sure you won't be interested as there are no longer any donkeys at the noras.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 04:51:47 PM
"Do you think there's every chance the PJ were looking for evidence connected to Kenny's murder down wells on CB's old properties too?"
Obviously the answer is no, because there's no evidence that the PJ looked in those wells. In future you should provide cites imo.
Here’s your cite. You will of course reject it but that’s your problem not mine https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12339813
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 05:10:59 PM
You've been sucked in to the hyperbole. Come back when you've got a plot plan of which wells were searched, where and when. I guarantee you will not find them, but I'll give you a clue - have a look at where Kenny lived on Google Earth.
I’m sorry but I draw the line at looking up some unfortunate murdered old bloke’s gaff on Google Earth.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 14, 2020, 05:39:53 PM
I’m sorry but I draw the line at looking up some unfortunate murdered old bloke’s gaff on Google Earth.
I nearly broke an emoji out then. Seriously funny and quite true; many a time I've paused, stared at the screen and inwardly considered the futility of scouring the internet for the remnants of an abandoned well in Nowhere, Kentucky, just to affirm a pointless notion that means even less to the recipient of this newly discovered, utterly meaningless mote of data.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: misty on July 14, 2020, 06:57:42 PM
Wading through all the muddy hyperbole on here, which wells were you supposed to be looking for? The latest three or others searched in the past?
I mistakenly thought the photo I posted showed work being done after the 3 wells searched last Thursday. The location of those wells appears to have been ascertained by posters elsewhere, corresponding to various descriptions in the media.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Myster on July 14, 2020, 07:02:13 PM
I mistakenly thought the photo I posted showed work being done after the 3 wells searched last Thursday. The location of those wells appears to have been ascertained by posters elsewhere, corresponding to various descriptions in the media.
Ah, Ok... gotcha.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Anthro on July 14, 2020, 07:20:23 PM
Here’s your cite. You will of course reject it but that’s your problem not mine https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12339813
...it was revealed Portuguese police had been looking at the possibility McCann's body was dumped in wells near Brueckner's old home, according to claims. [whose claims?]
Weekly Portuguese newspaper SOL said police had already undertaken some work aimed at establishing whether the missing youngster's body might be in one of them.
The wells investigated are believed to be near Brueckner's old rented ramshackle cottage just over 3km from where Maddie went missing.
The property has a well right beside it as well as others dotted around the countryside nearby.
Neighbours said earlier this week they were only aware of searches in the wider area six years ago led by Met Police which turned up nothing new. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12339813
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 09:13:48 PM
...it was revealed Portuguese police had been looking at the possibility McCann's body was dumped in wells near Brueckner's old home, according to claims. [whose claims?]
Weekly Portuguese newspaper SOL said police had already undertaken some work aimed at establishing whether the missing youngster's body might be in one of them.
The wells investigated are believed to be near Brueckner's old rented ramshackle cottage just over 3km from where Maddie went missing.
The property has a well right beside it as well as others dotted around the countryside nearby.
Neighbours said earlier this week they were only aware of searches in the wider area six years ago led by Met Police which turned up nothing new. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12339813
That’s right, cherry pick the bits that suit your opinion best.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 14, 2020, 09:35:58 PM
'German detectives believe the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case may have written letters about her as Portuguese Police examine whether her body was dumped in a well.
Detectives probing into the life of Christian Brueckner are hunting for the supposed letters and have asked ex-girlfriends for notes the convicted sex offender may have sent them in the past.''
I know he's an arch weirdo but..I find this hard to believe, that he would be bragging about the assault and murder of a small child to multiple girlfriends.
'German detectives believe the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case may have written letters about her as Portuguese Police examine whether her body was dumped in a well.
Detectives probing into the life of Christian Brueckner are hunting for the supposed letters and have asked ex-girlfriends for notes the convicted sex offender may have sent them in the past.''
I know he's an arch weirdo but..I find this hard to believe, that he would be bragging about the assault and murder of a small child to multiple girlfriends.
'German detectives believe the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case may have written letters about her as Portuguese Police examine whether her body was dumped in a well.
Detectives probing into the life of Christian Brueckner are hunting for the supposed letters and have asked ex-girlfriends for notes the convicted sex offender may have sent them in the past.''
I know he's an arch weirdo but..I find this hard to believe, that he would be bragging about the assault and murder of a small child to multiple girlfriends.
Perhaps you should contact the German police and give them the benefit of your opinion.
What's the point of your flippant comment really? My comment is an opinion relating to what someone else posted on this thread, which is what the whole thread is full of.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 14, 2020, 10:09:05 PM
Yet many sceptics seem to think Gerry discussed.............in front of the Gaspars
I think most hold the opinion it should be investigated seriously, whether one believes it or not. Anything else would be failing the children alleged to be the subjects of the abuse.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 10:10:42 PM
I think most hold the opinion it should be investigated seriously, whether one believes it or not. Anything else would be failing the children alleged to be the subjects of the abuse.
You obviously believe it's a possibility by that statement so it's strange you find the claim re Breukner unlikely
I don't think most hold that opinion
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 10:12:57 PM
What's the point of your flippant comment really? My comment is an opinion relating to what someone else posted on this thread, which is what the whole thread is full of.
What’s the point of your comment? Just because you think you know what CB would and wouldn’t do has no bearing on the reality of the situation.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 14, 2020, 10:19:37 PM
What’s the point of your comment? Just because you think you know what CB would and wouldn’t do has no bearing on the reality of the situation.
Just as valid as any of your comments. My opinion is that Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends and that the request to be sent any correspondence is something routine that is bound to happen in an investigation. The press are the ones again, who present things as significant when they may not be.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 10:21:46 PM
Just as valid as any of your comments. My opinion is that Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends and that the request to be sent any correspondence is something routine that is bound to happen in an investigation. The press are the ones again, who present things as significant when they may not be.
So it’s your opinion that the story is completely made up? Fine, believe what you want.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 14, 2020, 10:25:48 PM
Cite please for where I said it was made up. I didn't.
you said you found it hard to believe. The police clearly don’t share your point of view so either the story is bogus, or the police know something about CB and what he would and wouldn’t do that you don’t. Or the police are completely nuts. I’m sure you’ve already made up your mind.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 14, 2020, 10:41:29 PM
Just as valid as any of your comments. My opinion is that Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends and that the request to be sent any correspondence is something routine that is bound to happen in an investigation. The press are the ones again, who present things as significant when they may not be.
It does seem absolutely ridiculous that any girlfriend of Brueckner would not take any correspondence of the nature suggested to the police...especially if there was a large reward to be had.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 14, 2020, 10:52:36 PM
The article does not specify letters bragging about assaulting and murdering Madeleine- that was Gertrude’s own interpretation. The letters (if they exist) may not be quite so explicit as that, but may hold clues or evidence that may be useful. But carry on scoffing and sneering, I’m sure it’s bringimg you some comfort.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 15, 2020, 12:26:59 AM
The article does not specify letters bragging about assaulting and murdering Madeleine- that was Gertrude’s own interpretation. The letters (if they exist) may not be quite so explicit as that, but may hold clues or evidence that may be useful. But carry on scoffing and sneering, I’m sure it’s bringimg you some comfort.
IMO Maybe the call made from GM's mobile to KM's mobile on May 3rd at 23:17 held some clues... You know the one deleted from his call log along with several others.... we'll never know though because despite the PJ quite reasonably investigating the deleted call logs the courts in Portugal ruled against forcing Vodafone to hand over further information about them. The deleted calls (and texts) may hold clues or evidence that may be useful.... And just for the record I also believe the German sex offender should be fully investigated.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 07:13:01 AM
IMO Maybe the call made from GM's mobile to KM's mobile on May 3rd at 23:17 held some clues... You know the one deleted from his call log along with several others.... we'll never know though because despite the PJ quite reasonably investigating the deleted call logs the courts in Portugal ruled against forcing Vodafone to hand over further information about them. The deleted calls (and texts) may hold clues or evidence that may be useful.... And just for the record I also believe the German sex offender should be fully investigated.
Unless Vodaphone record the content of everyone’s phone calls I don’t see what additional information you would expect to glean that could be in any way useful?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 07:14:57 AM
Unless Vodaphone record the content of everyone’s phone calls I don’t see what additional information you would expect to glean that could be in any way useful?
You'd have a complete log of numbers dialled and accurate timings; like the ones the German Police have about CB that they think are so important.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 07:27:12 AM
IMO Maybe the call made from GM's mobile to KM's mobile on May 3rd at 23:17 held some clues... You know the one deleted from his call log along with several others.... we'll never know though because despite the PJ The deleted calls (and texts) may hold clues or evidence that may be useful.... And just for the record I also believe the German sex offender should be fully investigated.
Sorry, you've lost me a bit there.
I know the Judicial Police were not allowed to use Kate's diary ... but they just leaked it anyway.
I know they were not allowed to tap the McCann phones to record conversations.
I have never heard of " ... quite reasonably investigating the deleted call logs the courts in Portugal ruled against forcing Vodafone to hand over further information about them."
I think you need to provide your source for that quote. Please do so.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: jassi on July 15, 2020, 09:30:12 AM
I know the Judicial Police were not allowed to use Kate's diary ... but they just leaked it anyway.
I know they were not allowed to tap the McCann phones to record conversations.
I have never heard of " ... quite reasonably investigating the deleted call logs the courts in Portugal ruled against forcing Vodafone to hand over further information about them."
I think you need to provide your source for that quote. Please do so.
The article does not specify letters bragging about assaulting and murdering Madeleine- that was Gertrude’s own interpretation. The letters (if they exist) may not be quite so explicit as that, but may hold clues or evidence that may be useful. But carry on scoffing and sneering, I’m sure it’s bringimg you some comfort.
Me - My opinion is that Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends and that the request to be sent any correspondence is something routine that is bound to happen in an investigation. The press are the ones again, who present things as significant when they may not be.
and that was my whole point. 8(>((....it's the media that jump on these things and make them seem more significant than they may be. I was never questioning the German's procedure but you jumped on my comment without really understanding what I was saying.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Me - My opinion is that Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends and that the request to be sent any correspondence is something routine that is bound to happen in an investigation. The press are the ones again, who present things as significant when they may not be.
and that was my whole point. 8(>((....it's the media that jump on these things and make them seem more significant than they may be. I was never questioning the German's procedure but you jumped on my comment without really understanding what I was saying.
Media stories should be acknowledged but not uncritically believed imo.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 11:27:34 AM
Media stories should be acknowledged but not uncritically believed imo.
I'm often labelled as misogynist by one particular bird on here, but I'd contend that no self-respecting woman (strong, intelligent, independent woman at that) would sit there and let him regale tales of horrific child abuse.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Erngath on July 15, 2020, 11:49:45 AM
I'm often labelled as misogynist by one particular bird on here, but I'd contend that no self-respecting woman (strong, intelligent, independent woman at that) would sit there and let him regale tales of horrific child abuse.
I very much doubt that a strong, intelligent, self-respecting , independent woman would be his woman of choice or indeed would a woman with these qualities find him in the least attractive. His lifestyle and odious criminal past would perhaps not appeal to such a woman.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 11:54:31 AM
I very much doubt that a strong, intelligent, self-respecting , independent woman would be his woman of choice or indeed would a woman with these qualities find him in the least attractive. His lifestyle and odious criminal past would perhaps not appeal to such a woman.
Misogynist!
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 15, 2020, 01:21:50 PM
How do we know about the phonecall and texts, who made and received them and the times then?
Was the PJs court application to read the content of deleted texts. With regards to the deleted call logs Vodafone had supplied a list of calls made and received but I’m not sure if this included the full number and call duration. The deleted call logs certainly raised a red flag. Why did KM leave GMs 23:17 call in her log but GM deleted it from his?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 15, 2020, 02:04:49 PM
I very much doubt that a strong, intelligent, self-respecting , independent woman would be his woman of choice or indeed would a woman with these qualities find him in the least attractive. His lifestyle and odious criminal past would perhaps not appeal to such a woman.
Yet all kinds of women are abused. Often the abuser appears to be the perfect partner, it takes a lot of effort on their part but after a few weeks to months the true nature of their controlling and abusive nature starts to seep out, often it's quite hard to get out of the relationship by that point for any woman as intimidation and control have been employed. I would say Bruckner was like this from the descriptions, dressing nicely, having a 'nice' car, then the abuse started to creep in.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: kizzy on July 15, 2020, 02:14:58 PM
I very much doubt that a strong, intelligent, self-respecting , independent woman would be his woman of choice or indeed would a woman with these qualities find him in the least attractive. His lifestyle and odious criminal past would perhaps not appeal to such a woman.
Well, when you're raped I don't think you have a choice who it is.
so what is the point of your post.... it's not as if she actually picked him to rape her.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Erngath on July 15, 2020, 02:58:36 PM
Yet all kinds of women are abused. Often the abuser appears to be the perfect partner, it takes a lot of effort on their part but after a few weeks to months the true nature of their controlling and abusive nature starts to seep out, often it's quite hard to get out of the relationship by that point for any woman as intimidation and control have been employed. I would say Bruckner was like this from the descriptions, dressing nicely, having a 'nice' car, then the abuse started to creep in.
Men like him are not inclined to pick strong, intelligent, self-respecting, independent women.. I agree that all types of women can find themselves in an abusive relationship but I refer back to the General's post which suggested that if he had mentioned Madeleine in a worrying context then no strong, independent woman would keep quiet.......my pont was that he was unlikely to be in a relationship with such a woman.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: faithlilly on July 15, 2020, 03:02:11 PM
Men like him are not inclined to pick strong, intelligent, self-respecting, independent women.. I agree that all types of women can find themselves in an abusive relationship but I refer back to the General's post which suggested that if he had mentioned Madeleine in a worrying context then no strong, independent woman would keep quiet.......my pont was that he was unlikely to be in a relationship with such a woman.
I’m sure the woman he has been with in the past may disagree with you.
You really do think in stereotypes don’t you ?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2020, 04:14:27 PM
Men like him are not inclined to pick strong, intelligent, self-respecting, independent women.. I agree that all types of women can find themselves in an abusive relationship but I refer back to the General's post which suggested that if he had mentioned Madeleine in a worrying context then no strong, independent woman would keep quiet.......my pont was that he was unlikely to be in a relationship with such a woman.
If he did incriminate himself with anyone in the past why would any such person show any loyalty towards him now? What would prevent them from getting onto the authorities? Maybe it was anticipated the appeal would generate contact from exes or acquaintances.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 05:38:27 PM
Me - My opinion is that Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends and that the request to be sent any correspondence is something routine that is bound to happen in an investigation. The press are the ones again, who present things as significant when they may not be.
and that was my whole point. 8(>((....it's the media that jump on these things and make them seem more significant than they may be. I was never questioning the German's procedure but you jumped on my comment without really understanding what I was saying.
It wasn’t the media suggesting the letters were full of grisly details, it was you, so whatever point you thought you were making, you failed.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 05:39:48 PM
I'm often labelled as misogynist by one particular bird on here, but I'd contend that no self-respecting woman (strong, intelligent, independent woman at that) would sit there and let him regale tales of horrific child abuse.
No one is suggesting that happened are they?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 05:42:35 PM
Was the PJs court application to read the content of deleted texts. With regards to the deleted call logs Vodafone had supplied a list of calls made and received but I’m not sure if this included the full number and call duration. The deleted call logs certainly raised a red flag. Why did KM leave GMs 23:17 call in her log but GM deleted it from his?
Let your imagine run riot and come up with a sinister reason for this chain of events, then feel free to share it with us. I for one would love to know why you would view this as suspicious.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 15, 2020, 06:34:59 PM
Let your imagine run riot and come up with a sinister reason for this chain of events, then feel free to share it with us. I for one would love to know why you would view this as suspicious.
It was a former US Marshall (McCleish) who reportedly said the deleted calls log raised a red flag. We don’t need to imagine anything. It’s just worthy of investigation like CB’s call in the PDL area on the evening of May 3rd.
Anyway we know it roused suspicion of “manipulation” as the PJ applied to court for more information from Vodafone.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 06:41:59 PM
It was a former US Marshall (McCleish) who reportedly said the deleted calls log raised a red flag. We don’t need to imagine anything. It’s just worthy of investigation like CB’s call in the PDL area on the evening of May 3rd.
Anyway we know it roused suspicion of “manipulation” as the PJ applied to court for more information from Vodafone.
So you can’t say why it would be suspicious only that it must be because a former US Marshsll said so. Disappointing.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 07:52:27 PM
Again you've accused me of writing something I didn't. Cite please.
Did you write this?
“I know he's an arch weirdo but..I find this hard to believe, that he would be bragging about the assault and murder of a small child to multiple girlfriends”
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 15, 2020, 08:17:00 PM
“I know he's an arch weirdo but. .I find this hard to believe, that he would be bragging about the assault and murder of a small child to multiple girlfriends”
Yes and you wrote this 'It wasn’t the media suggesting the letters were full of grisly details, it was you, so whatever point you thought you were making, you failed./
I wrote I doubted any letters contain grisly detail..... I'm quite clearly saying the complete opposite of what you've accused me of.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 08:22:56 PM
Yes and you wrote this 'It wasn’t the media suggesting the letters were full of grisly details, it was you, so whatever point you thought you were making, you failed./
I wrote I doubted any letters contain grisly detail..... I'm quite clearly saying the complete opposite of what you've accused me of.
You’re doubting the existence of something that was never suggested by the mediai in the first place! I am quite clearly able to understand your own posts better than you are.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 15, 2020, 08:26:05 PM
You’re doubting the existence of something that was never suggested by the mediai in the first place! I am quite clearly able to understand your own posts better than you are.
No you really aren't and you're being very condescending in my view. I said the request would be routine not that I believe letters exist or not. I also said....
'Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends '
Yet you have decided that is me suggesting the letters contain 'grisly details'. How is that possible if I think any letters would not contain detail of an assault?
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 08:35:16 PM
No you really aren't and you're being very condescending in my view. I said the request would be routine not that I believe letters exist or not. I also said....
'Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends '
Yet you have decided that is me suggesting the letters contain 'grisly details'. How is that possible if I think any letters would not contain detail of an assault?
We’re going round in circles. I know what you said, it’s there for all to see. The media report to did not say he wrote letters describing Madeleine’s rape and murder. Those were details you doubted existed in response to the media article even though they had not been mentioned. IMO there was no need to doubt something that hadn’t even been reported in the first place. I’m not interested in further discussion on this so fill your boots, I don’t really care one way or the other.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 15, 2020, 08:36:36 PM
It was a former US Marshall (McCleish) who reportedly said the deleted calls log raised a red flag. We don’t need to imagine anything. It’s just worthy of investigation like CB’s call in the PDL area on the evening of May 3rd.
Anyway we know it roused suspicion of “manipulation” as the PJ applied to court for more information from Vodafone.
Never heard of 'former US Marshall (McCleish)' please provide a cite, thank you.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 15, 2020, 08:46:40 PM
We’re going round in circles. I know what you said, it’s there for all to see. The media report to did not say he wrote letters describing Madeleine’s rape and murder. Those were details you doubted existed in response to the media article even though they had not been mentioned. IMO there was no need to doubt something that hadn’t even been reported in the first place. I’m not interested in further discussion on this so fill your boots, I don’t really care one way or the other.
So it's all your opinion then, something you construed but I didn't actually say and you have no cite for ;''It wasn’t the media suggesting the letters were full of grisly details, it was you, '
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 08:53:51 PM
Just as valid as any of your comments. My opinion is that Bruckner is unlikely to have written anything disturbing about Madeleine to past girlfriends and that the request to be sent any correspondence is something routine that is bound to happen in an investigation. The press are the ones again, who present things as significant when they may not be.
They may not be significant, but then again they may be. I don’t see anything wrong in the news report, which may in fact prompt ex-girlfriends to dig out old letters which may possibly hold valuable clues.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 15, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
They may not be significant, but then again they may be. I don’t see anything wrong in the news report, which may in fact prompt ex-girlfriends to dig out old letters which may possibly hold valuable clues.
Which is what I said, the request of any potential letters would be a 'routine' step in any investigation.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 15, 2020, 09:01:39 PM
Which is what I said, the request of any potential letters would be a 'routine' step in any investigation.
What you also said was that the press present things as significant when they may not be. But they might be! So a pointless comment IMO. I didn’t know CB wrote letters to ex-girlfriends so that was new information to me, thanks to the media for reporting it.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Gertrude on July 15, 2020, 09:15:36 PM
What you also said was that the press present things as significant when they may not be. But they might be! So a pointless comment IMO. I didn’t know CB wrote letters to ex-girlfriends so that was new information to me, thanks to the media for reporting it.
They do present things as significant when they are just routine. There may, or may not be letters who knows until the investigation is over ( and even then we might not get to know). The press reports said correspondence requested not that it existed. The tracking down of letters and analysing will be part of any investigation so the process is not news IMO. Contents of the letters ( if they exist) could be of course.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 16, 2020, 10:52:55 AM
why did Saunokonoko have to go all the way to the US for an opinion...seems a little contrived. It could be looked upon as a red falg...but thats all ....like a suspect not answering questions...thats a red flag...it just depends if there is a raesonable explanation. Surely the vodaphone records show if any calls were made.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 16, 2020, 01:19:09 PM
why did Saunokonoko have to go all the way to the US for an opinion...seems a little contrived. It could be looked upon as a red falg...but thats all ....like a suspect not answering questions...thats a red flag...it just depends if there is a raesonable explanation. Surely the vodaphone records show if any calls were made.
I think Saunokonoko has chosen the wrong career path and as time progresses I think that will become more and more apparent to him. In the meantime the world has moved on from sceptic speculation to real investigative police work. Brueckner may be entirely innocent of having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance on the other hand the police and justice services are the ones to determine if he has a case to answer.
I don't think naked sceptic prejudice whether past or present even touches first base in the present stakes.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: The General on July 16, 2020, 01:21:32 PM
I think Saunokonoko has chosen the wrong career path and as time progresses I think that will become more and more apparent to him. In the meantime the world has moved on from sceptic speculation to real investigative police work. Brueckner may be entirely innocent of having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance on the other hand the police and justice services are the ones to determine if he has a case to answer.
I don't think naked sceptic prejudice whether past or present even touches first base in the present stakes.
He's quite accessible, why don't you give him that career advice personally? (Disgruntled of Chippenham)
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 16, 2020, 01:23:20 PM
I think Saunokonoko has chosen the wrong career path and as time progresses I think that will become more and more apparent to him. In the meantime the world has moved on from sceptic speculation to real investigative police work. Brueckner may be entirely innocent of having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance on the other hand the police and justice services are the ones to determine if he has a case to answer.
I don't think naked sceptic prejudice whether past or present even touches first base in the present stakes.
Most journalists, particularly British journalist's reports, reflected the parents views imo. Mark Saunokonoko has chosen to examine other issues, some of which raised red flags at the time.
He wasn't investigating, he was pointing out unanswered questions which Operation Grange in particular seemed uninterested in.
To me that suggests that there was a whole lot of questions which that particular police investigation didn't attempt to answer.
It seems to me that there was prejudice in what Op Grange were prepared to examine and red flags that they were prepared to ignore.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Brietta on July 16, 2020, 03:59:05 PM
Most journalists, particularly British journalist's reports, reflected the parents views imo. Mark Saunokonoko has chosen to examine other issues, some of which raised red flags at the time.
He wasn't investigating, he was pointing out unanswered questions which Operation Grange in particular seemed uninterested in.
To me that suggests that there was a whole lot of questions which that particular police investigation didn't attempt to answer.
It seems to me that there was prejudice in what Op Grange were prepared to examine and red flags that they were prepared to ignore.
Most journalists, particularly British journalist's reports, reflect an awareness of the libel laws in this country with maybe sometimes a little bit of decency and compassion thrown in for good measure.
It must be hell for someone stuck in a time warp like Saunokonoko et al to realise that not only are they waving a huge red flag over the past they should also be sending up distress flares over what might remain of their credibility if they ever had any in the first instance.
There is a new kid on the block who perhaps might merit questions being asked of him and I am sure investigators are mulling over what those questions should be for when the time comes. Certainly accredited journalists are.
I think flogging the dead horse of McCann opprobrium has had its day. Only thirteen years too late, but better late than never.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 16, 2020, 04:32:08 PM
Most journalists, particularly British journalist's reports, reflected the parents views imo. Mark Saunokonoko has chosen to examine other issues, some of which raised red flags at the time.
He wasn't investigating, he was pointing out unanswered questions which Operation Grange in particular seemed uninterested in.
To me that suggests that there was a whole lot of questions which that particular police investigation didn't attempt to answer.
It seems to me that there was prejudice in what Op Grange were prepared to examine and red flags that they were prepared to ignore.
Mark S is a poor journalist imo because he has believe d a lot of rubbish..Dogs with. 100% record .....he quotes Amaral saying the shutters couldn't be opened from the outside and much more.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 16, 2020, 06:34:34 PM
why did Saunokonoko have to go all the way to the US for an opinion...seems a little contrived. It could be looked upon as a red falg...but thats all ....like a suspect not answering questions...thats a red flag...it just depends if there is a raesonable explanation. Surely the vodaphone records show if any calls were made.
Yes they show calls were made and the call logs deleted. That's why the PJ applied to court for Vodafone to hand over more information. Quite thorough in their work it seems, imo.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: G-Unit on July 16, 2020, 06:40:25 PM
Most journalists, particularly British journalist's reports, reflect an awareness of the libel laws in this country with maybe sometimes a little bit of decency and compassion thrown in for good measure.
It must be hell for someone stuck in a time warp like Saunokonoko et al to realise that not only are they waving a huge red flag over the past they should also be sending up distress flares over what might remain of their credibility if they ever had any in the first instance.
There is a new kid on the block who perhaps might merit questions being asked of him and I am sure investigators are mulling over what those questions should be for when the time comes. Certainly accredited journalists are.
I think flogging the dead horse of McCann opprobrium has had its day. Only thirteen years too late, but better late than never.
In my opinion you tend to confuse opprobrium with bona fida questions. They are not related.
Title: Re: Vila do Bispo in West Portugal becomes a place of interest for the second time.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on July 16, 2020, 06:51:46 PM
Most journalists, particularly British journalist's reports, reflect an awareness of the libel laws in this country with maybe sometimes a little bit of decency and compassion thrown in for good measure.
It must be hell for someone stuck in a time warp like Saunokonoko et al to realise that not only are they waving a huge red flag over the past they should also be sending up distress flares over what might remain of their credibility if they ever had any in the first instance.
There is a new kid on the block who perhaps might merit questions being asked of him and I am sure investigators are mulling over what those questions should be for when the time comes. Certainly accredited journalists are.
I think flogging the dead horse of McCann opprobrium has had its day. Only thirteen years too late, but better late than never.
I'm sorry but there's nothing of substance in your reply, imo. Far from flogging a dead horse imo Mark Saunokonoko raises important questions that are worthy of discussion or investigation. Sloganised attempts to rubbish him just don't convince me, sorry.