UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Daisy on January 09, 2014, 08:22:57 PM
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I have read both this and the blue forum for sometime and with the utmost respect, many of those on both forums have formed opinions on Jeremy as regards his innocence/guilt and what type of person he is. Many have never written, spoken to or met him. This is why I have decided to share with you the friendship I have had with Jeremy for almost three years. He was, I thought one of my dearest and closest friends but I seriously misjudged this man. This will probably be a long post so I will do it in chunks so you don't get bored!
I started writing to Jeremy sometime ago after reading new information about the case and feeling that all didn't seem right. I live not far from Essex so have always read about his case in the local papers. I very soon became involved in the Campaign and typed some of the documents for his last CCRC submissions. I have also done all I can to ask those in power to listen and have written to my MP, the Prime Minister,the MOJ, the Home Secretary, CPS, IPCC etc. I have had conversations with officials at the CCRC and also exchanged emails and spoken on the phone to Professional Standards at Essex Police. I also phoned some of the scientists who examined the sound moderator who were very pleasant towards me but adament they had come to the right conclusion. The Campaign Team told me that I was getting more results and responses than themselves. When the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while, I never heard from them again and my emails went unanswered.
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Jeremy and I spoke on the phone two or three times a week and I sent him a generous monthly allowance. We shared our hopes and dreams and I always told him he was an extended part of my family. I just wanted him to feel that he belonged and I told him I would always support him no matter what. He always told me I was one of his closest friends and one of the only people he could trust. When I went on holiday, he made me promise to email him, he always phoned me on Christmas day and I truly believed our friendship was genuine. I continued to do whatever I could to help him, even tracking down a retired senior Essex Police Officer for his help which he initially said he would do, then asked me never to contact him again! Jeremy has sent me many documents which have never been in the public domain but I can say that none of them absolutely proved his innocence. There is one though, which indicates that there MAY have been life inside the house while Jeremy was outside but that needs investigating further.
Jeremy is witty, makes me laugh and usually cheeful in spite of the conditions he lives under. I discovered though that he has a dark side. He was often very evasive when I asked him questions about the case and if I ever disagreed with a piece of evidence or events, he would turn on me and shout and swear. He told me lots of lies and in the end I took everything he said with a pinch of salt. On my birthday last year, he sent me a lovely card telling me what a special friend I was and he promised to be with me to celebrate in 2014. Then things changed drasticall between us. . . . . . . .
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In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests. He demanded I send him £4,000. Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials. He told me to mind my own business and just pay up. He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan. He was very threatening and abusive. When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim." I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call. For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him. He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks. He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him. I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him. I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend. This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy. I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have? Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside. I feel desperately sorry for him.
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Thank you so much for those opening posts Daisy, you have more or less confirmed what we knew about Jeremy and how he uses people. The two Jackie's whom we all know quite well on this forum have already told us their own stories of how they were thrown aside after they were no longer any use to him. This also seems to apply to his lawyers but that is another story.
I will say before anyone else posts that I have still to verify your real identity which will of course remain confidential as per your wishes.
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Yet another member of the Bamber human debris trail.
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I have exchanged around 4 letters with Jeremy, along with Christmas cards, over a two year period. As you said Daisy I have found him cheerful despite his circumstances. I have always kept everything light and would never allow myself to become personally and emotionally involved with anyone in such a situation.
If he is innocent and suffering a MoJ then I guess its almost incomprehensible to gauge his suffering and quite understandable if on occasions he gets angry and frustrated. Plus he has no family support so I guess he offloads on friends >@@(*&)
I haven't read these testimonies through thoroughly but I believe they are from people who have known Jeremy pre and post prison:
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/
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I hear what you are saying Holly but there is a difference between offloading on friends and being controlling, manipulative and abusive. No one treats their friends like that. This is certainly not the way to behave if you claim to be a MOJ. Jeremy comes from a decent family and had an excellent education and should have been taught basic manners.
Also you say you would never become involved with a person in his position. Well, he is no different to the rest of us - he is just locked away. If we didn't become emotionally involved with our friends then we would all be robots!
When we look back at his life before and shortly after the murders he was described as arrogant and controlling. It seems he hasn't changed and is losing friends left right and centre. I have been to the highest level and take it from me MOJ or not, Jeremy is never ever going to be released.
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Thank you for sharing your experiences Daisy.
One of the many fascinating aspects of the case are the contradictory opinions on JB's character which range from God like to Devil like >@@(*&)
I do not share your view that he is no different from the rest of us. He has had his liberty taken away and that makes him very different from the vast majority. He is not really 'available' to give emotionally in the way that most can who have their liberty. If I was to support Jeremy in the real sense of the word (don't count posting on a forum as support) then I would see it as a one-sided relationship ie me giving and not expecting anything in return.
If he is guilty them as far as I am concerned I would like him to spend the rest of his natural life behind bars. I do not believe he is guilty and therefore I struggle to comprehend how he copes with the injustice. He may have been brought up to be a perfect gentleman by way of his family and education but if he is a victim of a MoJ I think we should make a few allowances >@@(*&)
With regard to whether or not he will ever be released I think the truth will eventually out whatever that may be. With the advent of the internet; exchange of information; technological and scientific advances and people in general being far less deferential to authority than in 1985/86 I feel certain that we will eventually know what exactly took place in WHF on that fateful night.
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I have exchanged around 4 letters with Jeremy, along with Christmas cards, over a two year period. As you said Daisy I have found him cheerful despite his circumstances. I have always kept everything light and would never allow myself to become personally and emotionally involved with anyone in such a situation.
If he is innocent and suffering a MoJ then I guess its almost incomprehensible to gauge his suffering and quite understandable if on occasions he gets angry and frustrated. Plus he has no family support so I guess he offloads on friends >@@(*&)
I haven't read these testimonies through thoroughly but I believe they are from people who have known Jeremy pre and post prison:
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/
I find it bizarre that when you first joined this forum, you claimed to know little of the case and were undecided on his guilt. Now, you are saying you have communicated with Jeremy for two years. Can you explain the contradictiona as i am confused? >@@(*&)
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I wonder what motivates somebody to write to a character like Bamber in the first place.
To those people that have, do you often write to strangers/convicts/whoever, or was this a bit of a one off?
I'm not criticising, just genuinely curious.
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I find it bizarre that when you first joined this forum, you claimed to know little of the case and were undecided on his guilt. Now, you are saying you have communicated with Jeremy for two years. Can you explain the contradictiona as i am confused? >@@(*&)
Yes, when I joined this forum in Mar '13 I genuinely wanted to debate the case with those that have opposing views to mine so I put my neutral hat on as Holly Goodhead.
When I started posting again on here in Nov '13 I fessed up:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2947.msg104381#msg104381
My interest in the case as follows:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3094.msg117883#msg117883
In any event I could have communicated with JB for years and not known much about the case or had any strong views on his guilt or innocence. As I said I have exchanged around 4 letters over a two year period which are very light and non-descript. I don't sleep with the letters under my pillow or anything like that 8(0(* If you believe JB is guilty I can quite see how you find the thought of communicating with such a person revolting. I thought the same about Lord Longford/Myra Hindley.
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I wonder what motivates somebody to write to a character like Bamber in the first place.
To those people that have, do you often write to strangers/convicts/whoever, or was this a bit of a one off?
I'm not criticising, just genuinely curious.
Well that's just it isn't it no one really seems to know this enigmatic character born Jeremy Philip Marsham and adopted/renamed Jeremy Nevill Bamber >@@(*&)
I guess I write to strangers quite a lot since joining the Blue and Red forum by way of posting with unknown individuals. Apart from this I don't believe I have ever previously communicated with unknown individuals. Certainly Jeremy is the only convict I have ever communicated with.
My reason for writing to Jeremy initially was that the Government appointed an adoption czar and compiled a report which was published in The Times entitled 'Narey Report'. I disagreed with most of it and wrote to the individuals concerned airing my views as an adoptee. I made reference to the Bamber family in terms of the fact that the mother (June) was mentally ill as a result of adopting her daughter (Sheila). Sheila developed mental illness and the adopted son (Jeremy) is serving life for murdering 5 members of his adoptive family. I believe at the heart of this tragic case is an adoption that went awry. I wanted Jeremy's views on the matter.
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That's a fascinating series of posts Daisy, very few of us have been in contact with Jeremy so to find someone who has and to that level as well is always of interest.
When you say about using people and disposing of them when they are no longer of use I have made that observation about Jeremy in the past. However, the rest of my observation of this behaviour was despite being used and treated badly by a so called friend, these people Jeremy dumps seem to remain loyal and still speak highly of him. So in that respect Daisy you are unusual (it seems pretty clear you know longer feel loyal to him despite mentioning you may still think him innocent).
Regarding the possible evidence of signs of life inside the house while Jeremy was outside, are you referring to the police log which refers to officers being "in conversation" with someone in the house or something in addition to this? Of course this could mean Jeremy hadn't finished the job so is not necessarily proof of his innocence as you say.
Like it or not for Jeremy to have committed his crime he would have had to have a manipulative and controlling streak, he would have to be very cold and calculating and would have hated being asked difficult questions. All of what you say in your post points to him having these character traits. I have recently got through Matthew McDonald's statements and the thing that really struck me about Matthew is his opinion that Jeremy was a "cold fish". I feel this is quite a telling observation.
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Interesting post Daisy, but not that shocking for anyone who has followed this case and spoken to people that have supported Jeremy.
He did the same with Jackie and she was pushed out, if I remember correctly it was Jackie who actually put SImon and Jeremy in touch with each other.
Keira also wanting to help fund the Arizona gun tests (I think itwas these tests, may have been others.) and asked me how much they would need to do full tests.
I'm ot sure if he already has some money, Daisy, and wanted £4000 to add to that to afford the tests, but £4k alone wouldn't be anywhere near enough. Thank God you didn't get a bank loan and hand over the money.
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Lol I have never read so much drivel in all my life as the 'Daisy' thread on Blue.
Blue seem to think they should have a monopoly on new posters wanting to air a grievance about JB >@@(*&) Ffs what difference does it make where 'Daisy' chooses to post, we all know that interested parties read both forums and respond accordingly. In any event whatever 'Daisy' posts, or anyone else for that matter, it's not going to make one iota in the grand scheme of things. Do they really think that postings on forums are capable of influencing the only people in a position to review JB's conviction ie bods at CCRC or 3 x appeal court judges?
Even the sensible ones seem to have taken leave of their senses. JB has been incarcerated in a high security prison since he was 24 yoa with tomorrow being his 53rd birthday and yet they seem to think he should be charm personified 24/7. These are people who believe he is the victim of the longest running MoJ in British criminal history. Oh and have now decided that they don't actually like him even though most have never had any direct contact with him. Instead they are happy to rely on hearsay and yet when it comes to the case they believe all manner of people lied, became muddled or conspired, ranging from JM to expert witnesses to the judiciary. Am I missing the point >@@(*&)
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I was aware of Daisy wanting to post this. Though I disagree with what she has done, I must add, in her defence, she meant no malice whatsoever.
Daisy is a dear lady....'old school', is the best way to describe her. She has an incredibly close family, including a most loving and supportive husband. The entire family where supportive of Daisy's desire to support a man with no family, who she felt was alone and in need of some genuine moral support, with no ties or complications. Her friendship with Jeremy was purely that. Unconditional.
She may have some wealth behind her and maybe Jeremy thought that Daisy's friendship may be of some serious use at a later date. Daisy was aware of this, however, she did not want to believe she was there solely for the money. She refused to think ill of Jeremy, even though her family had pointed out how he mentioned 'her' money to both her and the Campaign team on a few occasions.
What happened on 'that' particular visit was shocking to both Daisy and her husband....who was also with her. She was, as one can imagine, deeply hurt by this. Both she and her husband were upset by his actions that morning that a planned afternoon visit was cancelled by them.
Friendship, loyalty and family are at the core of the whole of Daisy's nearest and dearest. I suppose all she wanted to do was help a vulnerable young man who found himself fighting for his life....and justice.
In that, she has committed no crime, her actions and support were genuine.
The way some of you have attacked Daisy and her postings, is without justification and wholly unnecessary.
Daisy is old enough almost to be his mother.....you have spitefully attacked a harmless lady who meant no harm, other than to warn others who may be in the same position as she was, to be wary of him.
I have known Jeremy for over 20 years. Both his mental and emotional health have deteriorated (which is without judgement but a fact, due to his imprisonment and age).
Jeremy remains possibly one of the strongest men I have ever had the fortune to meet and I wish him no harm, ever. Not everybody who has had a relationship with Jeremy has spoken about it either.
Sadly, I do agree with Daisy on one point. Like her I believe he is innocent, always have....however, Jeremy has become a political prisoner upon which his release would bring the whole judicial system to its knees. It's not that he won't be released so much as he can't be released....and that is what Daisy meant also.
Having been through two Appeals with Jeremy, having had meetings with Euan Smith, having been fobbed off with him along with Jeremy whilst he was courted to the CCRC, as Commissioner leaves many unanswered questions.
Ask the right question and you may get the right answer.
Wishing you all a Happy New Year.
www.jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5009.msg213863.html#msg213863
As we all know Aunt Agatha was well acquainted with Jeremy for a number of years I felt this post should bring validity to what Daisy has said.
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Thank you for posting the above account from Aunt Agatha who I understand has had a very long association with JB post prison.
Am I right in thinking that defendants are not eligible for any legal aid until such time that as their case is referred to CoA from CCRC? Has this always been the case? If so who funded the DNA tests for the CoA appeal 2002?
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Wow I feel like an excited child waiting for Daddy Christmas...Daisy is going to put in an appearance tonight or tomorrow...hope its tonight...
Hi Daisy. Have just chucked some extra logs on the burner...red or white?
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I'm waiting too. ?{)(**
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Hi AA red or white? You will find it an altogether more pleasant place here without the scouse one.
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Is that what she is?
White please.....put another log on.....Daisy's coming. ?>)()<
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I think she over there thinks I am Daisy, so I've asked John on here to confirm I am not. Both Daisy and I will be on at the same time and I cannot be in two places at once.
It may not mean anything to her but there are some decent folk over there who can read information properly.
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Hi Everyone
I just wanted to answer some questions which have been put to me. The document I was referring to is the DPP's notebook. Jeremy sent me a copy and its contents differ substantially to the official police account of what happened outside Whitehouse Farm on that fateful evening. Of course this needs looking at and I presume this will form part of Jeremy's appeal as it has never been mentioned before.
As regards the forensics, there seems to be some confusion. The £4,000 was for brand new tests to be carried out by experts who have never been used before. No one with any sense would invest in an unknown entity and the reason I asked who these people are was not only to protect my investment but also to protect Jeremy too. We know only too well that there are experts and lawyers out there who are preying on desperate and vulnerable prisoners. We are aware of Giovanni Di Stefano the lawyer who never was who fleeced prisoners out of over £3million and is now serving a long prison sentence. There are also "experts" out there who are willing to jump on the bandwaggon. I know at one time Jeremy was planning to use Manlove Forensics but changed his mind. As he was not willing to give me any details, we could not take this matter any further. These tests are needed before he can appeal again and of course someone may have provided the funds by now. However, if not, is there anyone out there on the Blue Forum who would be willing to pay for these in order to expedite Jeremy's release?
I joined this forum because I knew I would feel safe here. Although some of my views are different to others, I have not been attacked. I just want to know the truth whatever that may be.
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Welcome girls. A little birdie from blue has suggested that AA and Daisy are one and the same but I can confirm that they are not.
Daisy has caused quite a stir over on blue and especially since AA vouched for her. Some like Grahame know what she says about Jeremy is perfectly true while others stubbornly cling to the belief that he is something else. I look forward to hearing what else Daisy has to say about current events.
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In response to Bubbles35, I am afraid you know nothing. Jeremy betrayed us as he has so many other people when he used us and tossed our friendship aside. We went the extra mile and way beyond that to help him. Are you going to provide him with the funds as you obviously hold him in such high esteem?
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Sorry it is bedtime for me as I am getting on in years and cannot stay up all night. I will be back on again though.
Goodnight
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Goodnight Daisy.....and thanks. x
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I find it sad that he's having to scrap around for 4k if its going to progress his case. >@@(*&) This is only a couple of hundred quid split between 20 people. There surely must be 20 supporters that could help? The whole thing seems utter madness to me. I thought he had a campaign team in place? After the last ccrc rejection, Apr '12, I suggested a spokesperson and raising funds but it all fell on deaf ears. I'm afraid some prefer to take an armchair approach and post a good >@@(*&) post only.
I can understand you wanting to verify the tests Daisy. It would be foolish to hand-over 4k without knowing the details.
It would be helpful if the campaign team could provide a structure of how they are organised and who people should contact if they wish to help. I have absolutely no idea who these people are or how they are contactable? This is not intended as a criticism but would it not be a good idea to have a donation facility so supporters could donate along with trustee details to ensure appropriation of funds etc?
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
I thought a new application, complete with all supporting evidence, had been filed recently with the CCRC?
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Is that what she is?
White please.....put another log on.....Daisy's coming. ?>)()<
amongst other things yes 8(0(*
Hope you and Daisy were warm enough and enjoyed your wine. Winter nights in the cosy, cant beat them 8(0(*
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Surely Simon Mckay would know, or would know who to contact, to verify those proposing to carry out tests. I'm sure solicitors/barristers must have approved lists of experts.
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It will assist any new reader to advise that in the final analysis the Whitehouse Farm murders came down to one of two people being responsible. Jeremy Bamber or his adoptive sister Sheila Caffell. The forensic and photographic evidence is such that Sheila could almost certainly not use the rifle that fateful morning leaving only one conclusion.
It is my own belief that there was at least one associate with prior knowledge of the shootings but his or her identity is unlikely ever to be revealed unless a confession is forthcoming as part of some sort of deal to facilitate parole.
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In response to Bubbles35, I am afraid you know nothing. Jeremy betrayed us as he has so many other people when he used us and tossed our friendship aside. We went the extra mile and way beyond that to help him. Are you going to provide him with the funds as you obviously hold him in such high esteem?
Daisy, you appear to be in the know about these things. Is it true that Jeremy Bambers friends all deserted him after the trial?
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Surely Simon Mckay would know, or would know who to contact, to verify those proposing to carry out tests. I'm sure solicitors/barristers must have approved lists of experts.
McKay was also fooled recently....it was all over the net.
It seems those who tried to help Jeremy, their credentials were not checked thoroughly enough.
This was the whole point. Daisy's had someone who offered to help her fully check these credentials.
She could give him money....no problem......but it would be time wasted again and he'd stay where he is.even longer.
Having now become aware of all this, anybody would be quite foolich to give the money without thorugh research first. It would be detrimental to him in the long run.
For those questioning Daisy's stance on this, may I remind them that Jeremy has no internet or anything to fully check these credentials as thoroughly as he would like....he has to depend on others.
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McKay was also fooled recently....it was all over the net.
It seems those who tried to help Jeremy, their credentials were not checked thoroughly enough.
This was the whole point. Daisy's had someone who offered to help her fully check these credentials.
She could give him money....no problem......but it would be time wasted again and he'd stay where he is.even longer.
Having now become aware of all this, anybody would be quite foolich to give the money without thorugh research first. It would be detrimental to him in the long run.
For those questioning Daisy's stance on this, may I remind them that Jeremy has no internet or anything to fully check these credentials as thoroughly as he would like....he has to depend on others.
I was thinking about this morning and I am in total agreement with you. At the touch of buttons we can research all manner of things by way of the internet, telephone calls or even arrange face-to-face meetings. Very few folk part with cash these days unless some sort of due diligence is carried out. Whether it be buyers from large retailers going off to China to check out manufacturing plants etc or individuals reading product reviews online. It is not in JB's interest to proceed unless some due diligence is carried out. The proposed testers (Manlove?) might have recently been knocked in a prosecution case - would JB be aware of this? That said I do appreciate it must be very frustrating for him to be constantly operating with one hand tied so to speak and so dependant on others. I think those who believe he is innocent and wish to support him in a personal capacity need to be mindful of the fact that he is someone who has endured unimaginable suffering (if innocent) and his responses at times are going to reflect this 8(8-))
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It will assist any new reader to advise that in the final analysis the Whitehouse Farm murders came down to one of two people being responsible. Jeremy Bamber or his adoptive sister Sheila Caffell. The forensic and photographic evidence is such that Sheila could almost certainly not use the rifle that fateful morning leaving only one conclusion.
It is my own belief that there was at least one associate with prior knowledge of the shootings but his or her identity is unlikely ever to be revealed unless a confession is forthcoming as part of some sort of deal to facilitate parole.
The pathologist, Peter Vanezis, seems extremely well qualified with an excellent track record and stated he was unable to confirm murder or suicide. I guess pathologists are seen as impartial ie would not have one for defence and another for prosecution as would be the case with other expert witnesses.
I do not go in for all the police wrongdoing that some suggest but I am of the opinion that as the soc was treated initially as 4 murders/1 suicide much of the 'evidence' is unreliable.
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It amazes me how people read what I have posted and then make up a lie to try and discredit me. Where, Alias have I said that I kept the copy of the document Jeremy sent me? He usually sent me copies to keep as I needed these to refer to when writing regularly to the Prime Minister and other Government departments. He wanted it returned swiftly as he had to send it on for someone else to read so I had little time to photocopy it.
Also, where has all this information come from regarding new submissions being made? Even his Campaign team have no knowledge of it. Jeremy is not going to the CCRC as they have such a backlog of work that they will take 5 or 6 years to consider his case. He does not want to wait that long so is going directly to the Court of Appeal.
Well said AA yes Simon Mckay was acutely embarrassed when he took a man's word who promised to fund the Danny Nightingale Appeal. The promise of a large sum was made and when Simon made contact for this to be paid, the man had disappeared. The company he claimed to work for had never heard of him. This is precisely the point I am making - do checks first before proceeding!! If an experienced lawyer can be "had" then Jeremy certainly can.
On the point of Jeremy's health he is not a well man. He has several serious health problems and is in constant pain. He has also lost a lot of weight (intentionally or not I don't kinow). Whatever our differences have been I feel he should be released on compassionate grounds
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It amazes me how people read what I have posted and then make up a lie to try and discredit me. Where, Alias have I said that I kept the copy of the document Jeremy sent me? He usually sent me copies to keep as I needed these to refer to when writing regularly to the Prime Minister and other Government departments. He wanted it returned swiftly as he had to send it on for someone else to read so I had little time to photocopy it.
Also, where has all this information come from regarding new submissions being made? Even his Campaign team have no knowledge of it. Jeremy is not going to the CCRC as they have such a backlog of work that they will take 5 or 6 years to consider his case. He does not want to wait that long so is going directly to the Court of Appeal.
Well said AA yes Simon Mckay was acutely embarrassed when he took a man's word who promised to fund the Danny Nightingale Appeal. The promise of a large sum was made and when Simon made contact for this to be paid, the man had disappeared. The company he claimed to work for had never heard of him. This is precisely the point I am making - do checks first before proceeding!! If an experienced lawyer can be "had" then Jeremy certainly can.
On the point of Jeremy's health he is not a well man. He has several serious health problems and is in constant pain. He has also lost a lot of weight (intentionally or not I don't kinow). Whatever our differences have been I feel he should be released on compassionate grounds
You haven´t said that, I was just wondering, as I am wondering about what your motivation for all this is - and the way you have chosen to go about it.
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Daisy - you make the suggestion that Jeremy should be released on compassionate grounds.
There are several reasons why this will not happen.
Jeremy is a convicted murderer who shot two children as they slept as well as his adoptive parents and sister. For as long as he denies his guilt he will never be freed.
Jeremy is seen as a threat to his remaining family. For as long as this situation continues he will never be allowed any opportunity to harm anyone on the outside.
The way I see it, Jeremy might some day gain his freedom but not before he confesses to his crime or miraculously, some new evidence is uncovered which proves his innocence beyond any possible doubt. I fear neither of these things will occur.
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Daisy - you make the suggestion that Jeremy should be released on compassionate grounds.
There are several reasons why this will not happen.
Jeremy is a convicted murderer who shot two children as they slept as well as his adoptive parents and sister. For as long as he denies his guilt he will never be freed.
Jeremy is seen as a threat to his remaining family. For as long as this situation continues he will never be allowed any opportunity to harm anyone on the outside.
The way I see it, Jeremy might some day gain his freedom but not before he confesses to his crime or miraculously, some new evidence is uncovered which proves his innocence beyond any possible doubt. I fear neither of these things will occur.
I disagree John. He will never be released. He is pure evil. There is no way that any Home Secretary would sanction his release on compassionate grounds.
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Should Ian Brady get compassionate release, too?
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I have to say, Bamber seemed pretty "together" when writing his latest schmaltz, "Childhood Adventures at Clifton House." Didn't seem to be a fat lot wrong with him, as usual.
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I think after the release of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds with 3 months to live (except he lived for nearly 3 years) caused so much 'fuss' (whether he is guilty or not I don't know), I can't see it happening again (or anytime soon) unless it's almost a certainty they their death is imminent.
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Yes, when I joined this forum in Mar '13 I genuinely wanted to debate the case with those that have opposing views to mine so I put my neutral hat on as Holly Goodhead.
When I started posting again on here in Nov '13 I fessed up:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2947.msg104381#msg104381
My interest in the case as follows:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3094.msg117883#msg117883
In any event I could have communicated with JB for years and not known much about the case or had any strong views on his guilt or innocence. As I said I have exchanged around 4 letters over a two year period which are very light and non-descript. I don't sleep with the letters under my pillow or anything like that 8(0(* If you believe JB is guilty I can quite see how you find the thought of communicating with such a person revolting. I thought the same about Lord Longford/Myra Hindley.
Thanks for your explanation. You do seem very familiar to me. I wonder if we have spoken previously. I think it is great that so many of JB's supporters are joining here. It adds real credibility to the forum. With the moderation here being equal to all, i look forward to some in depth and balanced debating.
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Thanks for your explanation. You do seem very familiar to me. I wonder if we have spoken previously. I think it is great that so many of JB's supporters are joining here. It adds real credibility to the forum. With the moderation here being equal to all, i look forward to some in depth and balanced debating.
Thanks. I got the feeling we may have met before too ?{)(**
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I think after the release of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds with 3 months to live (except he lived for nearly 3 years) caused so much 'fuss' (whether he is guilty or not I don't know), I can't see it happening again (or anytime soon) unless it's almost a certainty they their death is imminent.
I think I am right in saying that the decision on al-Megrahi was made by the Scottish parliament too.
Ronnie Biggs is another example and was only a passenger in a stand-by getaway car. As we know he escaped from prison and spent years on the run. Obviously serious crimes but not in the league of what al-Megrahi was found guilty of. He was eventually released on compassionate grounds but again it caused so much fuss.
I don't see JB ever being released on compassionate grounds. Not only that the above were released to their family. JB has no family to be released to.
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Daisy was prepared to accept him as an "extended part" of her family, so he used her and dumped her.
It's what he does.
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Should Ian Brady get compassionate release, too?
NO. Thankfully he has been deemed "criminally insane". It would be scary to think that an individual could carry out such acts without being insane.
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Daisy was prepared to accept him as an "extended part" of her family, so he used her and dumped her.
It's what he does.
Yes but I would imagine that the authorities would want a bit more than 'Daisy' offering to take JB into the bosom of her family eg son/daughter or mother/father to release a prisoner on compassionate grounds. In any event I don't think he would be released by the British government due to the crimes he has been convicted of. I would think releasing a prisoner on compassionate grounds is as much about being compassionate to the family of a prisoner as the prisoner.
I do wonder about women who strike up relationships with men in prison. According to AA/Daisy, Daisy's was a friendship not a romantic one. Is it possible to have a romantic relationship with a prisoner? I did a bit of research on this and apparently its more common for women to strike up romantic relationships with men prisoners but men do strike up romantic relationships with women prisoners. What sort of romantic relationship could you have with a man in prison especially one serving life or on death row 8-)(--) Perhaps I'm not very romantic but to my mind romance and having a shag go hand-in-hand. Not too sure I could be bothered otherwise. Not only that but all the letter writing would probably give you a limp wrist and I tend to be right handed for everything 8()-000( It would be a lose-lose situation >@@(*&) Seriously what would be the point? The research seems to indicate that women who form such relationships like control and have often been abused in childhood or by a partner in adulthood 8-)(--) >@@(*&) Do we know anyone who fits the bill 8(0(*
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Jeremy and I spoke on the phone two or three times a week and I sent him a generous monthly allowance. We shared our hopes and dreams and I always told him he was an extended part of my family. I just wanted him to feel that he belonged and I told him I would always support him no matter what. He always told me I was one of his closest friends and one of the only people he could trust. When I went on holiday, he made me promise to email him, he always phoned me on Christmas day and I truly believed our friendship was genuine. I continued to do whatever I could to help him, even tracking down a retired senior Essex Police Officer for his help which he initially said he would do, then asked me never to contact him again! Jeremy has sent me many documents which have never been in the public domain but I can say that none of them absolutely proved his innocence. There is one though, which indicates that there MAY have been life inside the house while Jeremy was outside but that needs investigating further.
Jeremy is witty, makes me laugh and usually cheeful in spite of the conditions he lives under. I discovered though that he has a dark side. He was often very evasive when I asked him questions about the case and if I ever disagreed with a piece of evidence or events, he would turn on me and shout and swear. He told me lots of lies and in the end I took everything he said with a pinch of salt. On my birthday last year, he sent me a lovely card telling me what a special friend I was and he promised to be with me to celebrate in 2014. Then things changed drasticall between us. . . . . . . .
I wish someone would send me a generous monthly allowance. I can buy a new pair of Church's shoes. James Bond wears them you know. I find them a bit heavy to be leaping around in. But fine just for dinner.
Anyway recommend them as they are heavy enough to go with smart or casual trousers.
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yes there was life in whf while jb was outside,it was the dog crispy
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It could even have been 'Crispy' who EP saw at the window of the boxroom before entering. The windows were quite long so the dog could have reached on hind legs hearing a noise outside. I believe I'm right in saying the boxroom light was also on perhaps causing the dog's shadow at the window. In some photos of SC in the main bedroom the boxroom door is open...some photo's closed.
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It could even have been 'Crispy' who EP saw at the window of the boxroom before entering. The windows were quite long so the dog could have reached on hind legs hearing a noise outside. I believe I'm right in saying the boxroom light was also on perhaps causing the dog's shadow at the window. In some photos of SC in the main bedroom the boxroom door is open...some photo's closed.
yes that is likely opal,.when jb was asked he said it could have been the dog that fired the 2nd shot.he was being cocky .your right a dog moving around while a light is on can cause shadows 8((()*/
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It could even have been 'Crispy' who EP saw at the window of the boxroom before entering. The windows were quite long so the dog could have reached on hind legs hearing a noise outside. I believe I'm right in saying the boxroom light was also on perhaps causing the dog's shadow at the window. In some photos of SC in the main bedroom the boxroom door is open...some photo's closed.
Good observation Opal. 8((()*/
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Bumping this very interesting thread for all those of us who are new to this part of the forum.
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In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests. He demanded I send him £4,000. Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials. He told me to mind my own business and just pay up. He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan. He was very threatening and abusive. When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim." I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call. For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him. He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks. He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him. I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him. I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend. This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy. I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have? Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside. I feel desperately sorry for him.
I know this is from 2014, so you may not read this, Daisy. But I’d like to say what a brave and soft-hearted lady you are: you weren’t to know Jeremy Bamber was using you, and that must have hurt you terribly when he abused you and said he’d “never liked you”.
His callous, controlling and deceptive true-self came to the fore, and like all evil psychopaths they can’t hold their fury in when they don’t get their own way. He’s very money-orientated, and realising you were comfortably off he obviously gave you a big sob story. He’s done it to so many people, and will continue to do so.
It’s staggering how he DEMANDED money from you, and ordered you to take out a bank loan — the arrogance of him is breathtaking. I suspect he got angry with you and swore at you because he realised you weren’t as stupid as he thought. Money is his God, and it would be interesting to know how many soft-hearted people who fell for his lies sent him money and when they stopped, he discarded them.
And for someone who professes he can prove his innocence (and he still hasn’t since his last contact to you in 2014), he would have jumped at the chance of using Maylove Forensics: they’re one of the top — if not THE top — Forensic agencies in the UK; used both by police and lawyers. It’s obvious the reason he didn’t want to use them was that they’d throw up exactly the same results that the forensic team did when he was found guilty, and the blood flake had 17 markers out a possible 20 markers that proved beyond doubt the blood was Sheila’s. It seems Jeremy wanted to use some obscure forensic agency in America, who he’d probably been told weren’t reputable...I think you can guess what I’m implying.
I also believe he gave you a sob story pretending that he had various, serious health problems. It’s all part of his manipulation. A journalist went to see him just a couple of years ago (I will provide the source), and said that Jeremy “bounced” into the visiting area; that he was in good spirits and upbeat; and clearly worked out regularly in the gym as his arms and chest showed. He even said he goes to the gym regularly, and he also has a good appetite. So what “serious” illness/health issues did he claim to have? They certainly don’t stop him lifting weights and running on treadmills. Nor are they in his mind when he says he will be free one day and wants to visit Australia, India and so on...
He’s a leech and a parasite, and doesn’t care how much he hurts ANYONE. Like yourself, who is sweet, kind, soft-natured, he didn’t care how much pain he caused you when he said he’d “never really liked you” — and to your face too!
He’s as vile now as he was when he murdered all his family. Cold, evil, nasty, aggressive — and is still unable to hold back his anger and fury. I’ve read so many accounts similar to yours, so you’re just one of many he’s used then discarded. I still find it astonishing that anyone at all can th8nk he’s innocent, or a nice man, when he’s he was found guilty of five murders, and treats people like sh*t when they no longer play to his tune.
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Daisy was prepared to accept him as an "extended part" of her family, so he used her and dumped her.
It's what he does.
There appears to be many women he’s done this to since being in prison.
I suppose now he’s aged (quite badly too, I read) he’s having to communicate with whoever writes to him, which must anger him inside
Are there any other women on here who’ve suffered the same disgraceful behaviour from Jeremy Bamaber when he’s realised he can no longer use them?
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There appears to be many women he’s done this to since being in prison.
I suppose now he’s aged (quite badly too, I read) he’s having to communicate with whoever writes to him, which must anger him inside
Are there any other women on here who’ve suffered the same disgraceful behaviour from Jeremy Bamaber when he’s realised he can no longer use them?
Hybristophilia is the term for women who are attracted to those behind bars. His, one time, "Hooray Henry" looks would have been a huge attraction -and to some, evidence of his innocence- and an enticement to help him in any way possible.
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Hybristophilia is the term for women who are attracted to those behind bars. His, one time, "Hooray Henry" looks would have been a huge attraction -and to some, evidence of his innocence- and an enticement to help him in any way possible.
I’ve never understood these women who become infatuated with evil convicted murderers. I mean, they’re not much a catch are they?🤪
There has to something seriously lacking with these women...and that’s why the psychopaths respond. They know the women are either mentally ill, hard-up for a man; deluded in some way...and so they tell them what they want to hear and then start using them for gifts & money, and to help their cause to try and worm out of prison.
I read about one woman in America who insisted the murderer she’d started writing to was innocent, and that he was lovely, wonderful, misunderstood and had been set up — and he was eventually freed. To her joy he was actually freed and to repay her after moving in with her and sponging off her for a few weeks he sliced both her ears off. Good judgement!
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Hybristophilia is the term for women who are attracted to those behind bars. His, one time, "Hooray Henry" looks would have been a huge attraction -and to some, evidence of his innocence- and an enticement to help him in any way possible.
When you believed in JB's innocence, and posted in support of him, were you ever attracted to him in terms of his looks or personality?
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When you believed in JB's innocence, and posted in support of him, were you ever attracted to him in terms of his looks or personality?
Sorry to jump in here...but how can one be attracted to someone’s personality when they’ve never met them, Holly?
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Sorry to jump in here...but how can one be attracted to someone’s personality when they’ve never met them, Holly?
I've no idea but it has been said.
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When you believed in JB's innocence, and posted in support of him, were you ever attracted to him in terms of his looks or personality?
It's not impossible, Holly. I was surrounded by males -of all ages- of his type, most of them good looking, all well mannered, courteous, well educated and wealthy, and local!!! However, for all that, the irrefutable draw, which I can't separate myself from, is the fact of his adoption.
PS I never saw him in a sexual way. He was too much of a boy to attract me in that way.
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I've no idea but it has been said.
And what attracts YOU to him, Holly?
Going by this forum alone, every single time I come in here you’re always online. And that’s without you contributing to the blue forum (if you still do), including all the other social media forums...
You appear obsessed for some reason...
Maybe Jeremy fills a void in your life
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Sorry to jump in here...but how can one be attracted to someone’s personality when they’ve never met them, Holly?
It's the illusion!
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And what attracts YOU to him, Holly?
Going by this forum alone, every single time I come in here you’re always online. And that’s without you contributing to the blue forum (if you still do), including all the other social media forums...
You appear obsessed for some reason...
Maybe Jeremy fills a void in your life
Careful Ispywithmybigeye, no disparaging comments please.
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It's the illusion!
And for some, the anticipation!!!!
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It's not impossible, Holly. I was surrounded by males -of all ages- of his type, most of them good looking, all well mannered, courteous, well educated and wealthy, and local!!! However, for all that, the irrefutable draw, which I can't separate myself from, is the fact of his adoption.
PS I never saw him in a sexual way. He was too much of a boy to attract me in that way.
He wouldn't have lasted an hour in the area I grew up in @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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I’ve never understood these women who become infatuated with evil convicted murderers. I mean, they’re not much a catch are they?🤪
There has to something seriously lacking with these women...and that’s why the psychopaths respond. They know the women are either mentally ill, hard-up for a man; deluded in some way...and so they tell them what they want to hear and then start using them for gifts & money, and to help their cause to try and worm out of prison.
I read about one woman in America who insisted the murderer she’d started writing to was innocent, and that he was lovely, wonderful, misunderstood and had been set up — and he was eventually freed. To her joy he was actually freed and to repay her after moving in with her and sponging off her for a few weeks he sliced both her ears off. Good judgement!
So what are the lawyers ‘lacking’ who support these men?
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There appears to be many women he’s done this to since being in prison.
I suppose now he’s aged (quite badly too, I read) he’s having to communicate with whoever writes to him, which must anger him inside
Are there any other women on here who’ve suffered the same disgraceful behaviour from Jeremy Bamaber when he’s realised he can no longer use them?
He’s done it to lawyers too
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I know this is from 2014, so you may not read this, Daisy. But I’d like to say what a brave and soft-hearted lady you are: you weren’t to know Jeremy Bamber was using you, and that must have hurt you terribly when he abused you and said he’d “never liked you”.
His callous, controlling and deceptive true-self came to the fore, and like all evil psychopaths they can’t hold their fury in when they don’t get their own way. He’s very money-orientated, and realising you were comfortably off he obviously gave you a big sob story. He’s done it to so many people, and will continue to do so.
It’s staggering how he DEMANDED money from you, and ordered you to take out a bank loan — the arrogance of him is breathtaking. I suspect he got angry with you and swore at you because he realised you weren’t as stupid as he thought. Money is his God, and it would be interesting to know how many soft-hearted people who fell for his lies sent him money and when they stopped, he discarded them.
And for someone who professes he can prove his innocence (and he still hasn’t since his last contact to you in 2014), he would have jumped at the chance of using Maylove Forensics: they’re one of the top — if not THE top — Forensic agencies in the UK; used both by police and lawyers. It’s obvious the reason he didn’t want to use them was that they’d throw up exactly the same results that the forensic team did when he was found guilty, and the blood flake had 17 markers out a possible 20 markers that proved beyond doubt the blood was Sheila’s. It seems Jeremy wanted to use some obscure forensic agency in America, who he’d probably been told weren’t reputable...I think you can guess what I’m implying.
I also believe he gave you a sob story pretending that he had various, serious health problems. It’s all part of his manipulation. A journalist went to see him just a couple of years ago (I will provide the source), and said that Jeremy “bounced” into the visiting area; that he was in good spirits and upbeat; and clearly worked out regularly in the gym as his arms and chest showed. He even said he goes to the gym regularly, and he also has a good appetite. So what “serious” illness/health issues did he claim to have? They certainly don’t stop him lifting weights and running on treadmills. Nor are they in his mind when he says he will be free one day and wants to visit Australia, India and so on...
He’s a leech and a parasite, and doesn’t care how much he hurts ANYONE. Like yourself, who is sweet, kind, soft-natured, he didn’t care how much pain he caused you when he said he’d “never really liked you” — and to your face too!
He’s as vile now as he was when he murdered all his family. Cold, evil, nasty, aggressive — and is still unable to hold back his anger and fury. I’ve read so many accounts similar to yours, so you’re just one of many he’s used then discarded. I still find it astonishing that anyone at all can th8nk he’s innocent, or a nice man, when he’s he was found guilty of five murders, and treats people like sh*t when they no longer play to his tune.
What about how he and those around him are manipulating his case papers in order to present some kind of alternative narrative?
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It's the illusion!
And some people choose to feed into the illusion; what’s that all about?
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And what attracts YOU to him, Holly?
Going by this forum alone, every single time I come in here you’re always online. And that’s without you contributing to the blue forum (if you still do), including all the other social media forums...
You appear obsessed for some reason...
Maybe Jeremy fills a void in your life
This forum was started on the back of the Bamber case.
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You really are the Jackie Preece of this forum.
You're personal, insulting and very rude.
Can you rein your tongue in a bit!
Tongue?
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It's the illusion!
It’s not an ‘illusion’ that Bamber’s attempting to manipulate the paperwork in his case but Mark Newby’s seemingly fallen for it; or has he?
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It's the illusion!
Illusion?
But he’s a mass murderer — he shot dead two little boys! And killed his parents and sister.
What the hell is attractive about THAT?!
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NO. Thankfully he has been deemed "criminally insane". It would be scary to think that an individual could carry out such acts without being insane.
But psychopaths carry out mass murders too, and they’re not always criminally insane — they’re simply EVIL.
Like Jeremy Bamber is.
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So what are the lawyers ‘lacking’ who support these men?
Lawyers are human beings too, as are doctors: just look at the psychopath Harold Shipman.
Good education doesn’t mean a person is moral, decent, honest, fair, unflawed — suffers low self-esteem, feelings of inadequacy, Insecurity, jealousy, feels a failure at their job & in their relationships; feels unattractive, undesired etc...nor does it mean they won’t commit crimes.
The few lawyers who have supported him (besides the fake one) are not your highly esteemed lawyers. I’ve met lawyers and barristers who are positively unintelligent and can easily be bamboozled and tripped up. Many go into law by scraping through due to the determined pushing of their families, and they never quite make the grade. They plod along in life doing boring small cases, and so I can see why they’d like to have a jab at Bamber’s. They know there’s almost zero chance, but if they struck lucky they’d receive recognition, some fame, and make money by attracting new clients.
Then there’s the women lawyers...
They too can suffer all of the above flaws, and like all human beings can be seduced by compliments. A typical example is the lawyer who visited John Cannan in prison (I think he’s currently in the same one as Bamber). Cannon is rumoured to be “Mr Kipper” who allegedly kidnapped Suzy Lamplugh in 1986 from Fulham. I’m sure you know the case.
John Cannan is a convicted rapist and murderer, and was good-looking, very classy, well turned out, and seduced women with ease. Whilst in prison on the first occasion, for raping, sodomising and beating his girlfriend, he instructed a lawyer to visit him in prison as he wanted access visits to his child. The lawyer (I shall find her name), who was married to a QC went to see JC and quite quickly became seduced by him. She was blond, young, attractive, educated...but her attraction for him overcame all sense and they started an affair, which lasted a couple of years.
I shan’t go into the full story as I’ve digressed far too much, but I’m just giving my view why both men and women (though it’s mainly women) become smitten with Jeremy Bamber and suchlike. They find them physically attractive. That’s the crux of it.
But there’s a difference between his supporters : the lawyers/authors have self-serving reasons to befriend Bamber whereas the women who suddenly decide to write to him must have something lacking in their lives if they are attracted to him (as he was 36 years ago) and start to see their communications as the start of some heady romance. It wouldn’t occur to them to write to him if they had a fulfilled life.
You can be rest assured JB knows why they write to him, and I guarantee he laughs his head off at the majority. He wouldn’t have entertained those same women when he was on the outside, young, going to nightclubs, and chasing gorgeous young women in their 20s & 30s. He hasn’t “grown” since being incarcerated, so in his head he’s still stuck in 1985 and will still be attracted to the same type/looks/age of women as he was then.
I feel sadness for these women, because I can see how they’re being used and manipulated, and they all seem to end up being discarded or walking away when he “turns” and shows his true colours.
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”Jeremy Bamber 'acts as agony aunt to supporters who sent him letters in jail'
“I receive often very emotional letters from people who have lost family members in tragic circumstances or they have a sister, mother or child suffering from a serious mental illness.
“I share in their concerns, offer words of comfort and strength and most of all hope.
“Strangers confide their loneliness, a feeling that is often all too real in prison, and I identify with the way they reach out to me baring so many emotions
“Friends pen their hopes and dreams for the future and talk about what we will do together once I’m on the outside.’’
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/jeremy-bamber-acts-agony-aunt-21389718
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Lawyers are human beings too, as are doctors: just look at the psychopath Harold Shipman.
Good education doesn’t mean a person is moral, decent, honest, fair, unflawed — suffers low self-esteem, feelings of inadequacy, Insecurity, jealousy, feels a failure at their job & in their relationships; feels unattractive, undesired etc...nor does it mean they won’t commit crimes.
The few lawyers who have supported him (besides the fake one) are not your highly esteemed lawyers. I’ve met lawyers and barristers who are positively unintelligent and can easily be bamboozled and tripped up. Many go into law by scraping through due to the determined pushing of their families, and they never quite make the grade. They plod along in life doing boring small cases, and so I can see why they’d like to have a jab at Bamber’s. They know there’s almost zero chance, but if they struck lucky they’d receive recognition, some fame, and make money by attracting new clients.
Then there’s the women lawyers...
They too can suffer all of the above flaws, and like all human beings can be seduced by compliments. A typical example is the lawyer who visited John Cannan in prison (I think he’s currently in the same one as Bamber). Cannon is rumoured to be “Mr Kipper” who allegedly kidnapped Suzy Lamplugh in 1986 from Fulham. I’m sure you know the case.
John Cannan is a convicted rapist and murderer, and was good-looking, very classy, well turned out, and seduced women with ease. Whilst in prison on the first occasion, for raping, sodomising and beating his girlfriend, he instructed a lawyer to visit him in prison as he wanted access visits to his child. The lawyer (I shall find her name), who was married to a QC went to see JC and quite quickly became seduced by him. She was blond, young, attractive, educated...but her attraction for him overcame all sense and they started an affair, which lasted a couple of years.
I shan’t go into the full story as I’ve digressed far too much, but I’m just giving my view why both men and women (though it’s mainly women) become smitten with Jeremy Bamber and suchlike. They find them physically attractive. That’s the crux of it.
But there’s a difference between his supporters : the lawyers/authors have self-serving reasons to befriend Bamber whereas the women who suddenly decide to write to him must have something lacking in their lives if they are attracted to him (as he was 36 years ago) and start to see their communications as the start of some heady romance. It wouldn’t occur to them to write to him if they had a fulfilled life.
You can be rest assured JB knows why they write to him, and I guarantee he laughs his head off at the majority. He wouldn’t have entertained those same women when he was on the outside, young, going to nightclubs, and chasing gorgeous young women in their 20s & 30s. He hasn’t “grown” since being incarcerated, so in his head he’s still stuck in 1985 and will still be attracted to the same type/looks/age of women as he was then.
I feel sadness for these women, because I can see how they’re being used and manipulated, and they all seem to end up being discarded or walking away when he “turns” and shows his true colours.
Bamber needs the combination of the two to keep the illusion going
And many of these lawyers know that
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”Jeremy Bamber 'acts as agony aunt to supporters who sent him letters in jail'
“I receive often very emotional letters from people who have lost family members in tragic circumstances or they have a sister, mother or child suffering from a serious mental illness.
“I share in their concerns, offer words of comfort and strength and most of all hope.
“Strangers confide their loneliness, a feeling that is often all too real in prison, and I identify with the way they reach out to me baring so many emotions
“Friends pen their hopes and dreams for the future and talk about what we will do together once I’m on the outside.’’
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/jeremy-bamber-acts-agony-aunt-21389718
Exactly.
They all have problems.
The last quote is very telling: “Friends pen their hopes and dreams for the future and talk about what we will do together once I’m on the outside”
That’s sad. These women are living in cloud cuckoo land. They’re building castles in the sand, believing they’re in love with a stranger, and he loves them too, and have brainwashed themselves into believing he’s innocent; will be freed; receive millions in compensation; then they’ll walk off into the sunset and live happily ever after
You can’t get much more deluded than that
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Exactly.
They all have problems.
The last quote is very telling: “Friends pen their hopes and dreams for the future and talk about what we will do together once I’m on the outside”
That’s sad. These women are living in cloud cuckoo land. They’re building castles in the sand, believing they’re in love with a stranger, and he loves them too, and have brainwashed themselves into believing he’s innocent; will be freed; receive millions in compensation; then they’ll walk off into the sunset and live happily ever after
You can’t get much more deluded than that
This was interesting,
“I share in their concerns, offer words of comfort and strength and most of all hope.
especially in relation to the Supreme Court judges comments to him re his full life tariff
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Exactly.
They all have problems.
The last quote is very telling: “Friends pen their hopes and dreams for the future and talk about what we will do together once I’m on the outside”
That’s sad. These women are living in cloud cuckoo land. They’re building castles in the sand, believing they’re in love with a stranger, and he loves them too, and have brainwashed themselves into believing he’s innocent; will be freed; receive millions in compensation; then they’ll walk off into the sunset and live happily ever after
You can’t get much more deluded than that
We don't know what they're doing. Perhaps they just think he's innocent.
I wouldn't choose to write to JB, but , as far as I'm concerned, others are perfectly free to do so.
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Exactly.
They all have problems.
The last quote is very telling: “Friends pen their hopes and dreams for the future and talk about what we will do together once I’m on the outside”
That’s sad. These women are living in cloud cuckoo land. They’re building castles in the sand, believing they’re in love with a stranger, and he loves them too, and have brainwashed themselves into believing he’s innocent; will be freed; receive millions in compensation; then they’ll walk off into the sunset and live happily ever after
You can’t get much more deluded than that
Lawyers and supporters alike
The few lawyers who have supported him (besides the fake one) are not your highly esteemed lawyers.
Although he was a fake lawyer, he too had problems - most probably psychopathic ones
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Lawyers are human beings too, as are doctors: just look at the psychopath Harold Shipman.
Good education doesn’t mean a person is moral, decent, honest, fair, unflawed — suffers low self-esteem, feelings of inadequacy, Insecurity, jealousy, feels a failure at their job & in their relationships; feels unattractive, undesired etc...nor does it mean they won’t commit crimes.
The few lawyers who have supported him (besides the fake one) are not your highly esteemed lawyers. I’ve met lawyers and barristers who are positively unintelligent and can easily be bamboozled and tripped up. Many go into law by scraping through due to the determined pushing of their families, and they never quite make the grade. They plod along in life doing boring small cases, and so I can see why they’d like to have a jab at Bamber’s. They know there’s almost zero chance, but if they struck lucky they’d receive recognition, some fame, and make money by attracting new clients.
Then there’s the women lawyers...
They too can suffer all of the above flaws, and like all human beings can be seduced by compliments. A typical example is the lawyer who visited John Cannan in prison (I think he’s currently in the same one as Bamber). Cannon is rumoured to be “Mr Kipper” who allegedly kidnapped Suzy Lamplugh in 1986 from Fulham. I’m sure you know the case.
John Cannan is a convicted rapist and murderer, and was good-looking, very classy, well turned out, and seduced women with ease. Whilst in prison on the first occasion, for raping, sodomising and beating his girlfriend, he instructed a lawyer to visit him in prison as he wanted access visits to his child. The lawyer (I shall find her name), who was married to a QC went to see JC and quite quickly became seduced by him. She was blond, young, attractive, educated...but her attraction for him overcame all sense and they started an affair, which lasted a couple of years.
I shan’t go into the full story as I’ve digressed far too much, but I’m just giving my view why both men and women (though it’s mainly women) become smitten with Jeremy Bamber and suchlike. They find them physically attractive. That’s the crux of it.
But there’s a difference between his supporters : the lawyers/authors have self-serving reasons to befriend Bamber whereas the women who suddenly decide to write to him must have something lacking in their lives if they are attracted to him (as he was 36 years ago) and start to see their communications as the start of some heady romance. It wouldn’t occur to them to write to him if they had a fulfilled life.
You can be rest assured JB knows why they write to him, and I guarantee he laughs his head off at the majority. He wouldn’t have entertained those same women when he was on the outside, young, going to nightclubs, and chasing gorgeous young women in their 20s & 30s. He hasn’t “grown” since being incarcerated, so in his head he’s still stuck in 1985 and will still be attracted to the same type/looks/age of women as he was then.
I feel sadness for these women, because I can see how they’re being used and manipulated, and they all seem to end up being discarded or walking away when he “turns” and shows his true colours.
I think you would be surprised how much support JB has in the forensic science community.
At this stage only forensic scientists can assist him not lawyers and/or lay people writing to him.
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I think you would be surprised how much support JB has in the forensic science community.
@)(++(*
Forensic scientists ‘are human beings too’
Lawyers are human beings too, as are doctors: just look at the psychopath Harold Shipman.
Good education doesn’t mean a person is moral, decent, honest, fair, unflawed — suffers low self-esteem, feelings of inadequacy, Insecurity, jealousy, feels a failure at their job & in their relationships; feels unattractive, undesired etc...nor does it mean they won’t commit crimes.
The few lawyers who have supported him (besides the fake one) are not your highly esteemed lawyers. I’ve met lawyers and barristers who are positively unintelligent and can easily be bamboozled and tripped up. Many go into law by scraping through due to the determined pushing of their families, and they never quite make the grade. They plod along in life doing boring small cases, and so I can see why they’d like to have a jab at Bamber’s. They know there’s almost zero chance, but if they struck lucky they’d receive recognition, some fame, and make money by attracting new clients.
Then there’s the women lawyers...
They too can suffer all of the above flaws, and like all human beings can be seduced by compliments. A typical example is the lawyer who visited John Cannan in prison (I think he’s currently in the same one as Bamber). Cannon is rumoured to be “Mr Kipper” who allegedly kidnapped Suzy Lamplugh in 1986 from Fulham. I’m sure you know the case.
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At this stage only forensic scientists can assist him not lawyers and/or lay people writing to him.
No one can ‘assist’ him Holly
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Exactly.
They all have problems.
The last quote is very telling: “Friends pen their hopes and dreams for the future and talk about what we will do together once I’m on the outside”
That’s sad. These women are living in cloud cuckoo land. They’re building castles in the sand, believing they’re in love with a stranger, and he loves them too, and have brainwashed themselves into believing he’s innocent; will be freed; receive millions in compensation; then they’ll walk off into the sunset and live happily ever after
You can’t get much more deluded than that
Might such empathy for convicted killers, I wonder, deserve the label "Personality Disorder", OR is it that the personalities of such are so strong they can mesmerize/reach an area in some which causes them to need to feel needed, necessary and useful?
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I think you would be surprised how much support JB has in the forensic science community.
At this stage only forensic scientists can assist him not lawyers and/or lay people writing to him.
But the forensic tests have TWICE proved Sheila’s blood was inside the silencer
There’s no more to be done — it was all done and dusted decades ago
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I think you would be surprised how much support JB has in the forensic science community.
At this stage only forensic scientists can assist him not lawyers and/or lay people writing to him.
Source please.
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Lawyers and supporters alike
Although he was a fake lawyer, he too had problems - most probably psychopathic ones
He now refers to himself as an ‘international jurist’
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO
“International Jurist, political prisoner sentenced with a forged PNC, 560 days over served! Non contested depo order since 2013 bt still here! Family manage acc
https://mobile.twitter.com/DEVILSADVOKAT/with_replies?lang=en
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But the forensic tests have TWICE proved Sheila’s blood was inside the silencer
There’s no more to be done — it was all done and dusted decades ago
They have done no such thing.
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They have done no such thing.
They have
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They have
The tests used at trial were not capable of connecting blood to individuals.
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The tests used at trial were not capable of connecting blood to individuals.
I didn’t mention the trial
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Forensic scientists ‘are human beings too’
Concerns have been raised about Henry Lee
”How Many Murder Cases Did Celeb Forensic Scientist Henry Lee Botch?”
“Lee hid or destroyed a white object—likely an acrylic fingernail—found at the scene of Clarkson’s death by gunshot,
https://www.thedailybeast.com/henry-lee-how-many-murder-cases-did-the-celebrity-forensic-scientist-botch
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The tests used at trial were not capable of connecting blood to individuals.
They identified her type and the enzyme and before you suggest that RWB's blood could have been used as he had the same type, he would have had to know that - something he couldn't have known.
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I think you would be surprised how much support JB has in the forensic science community.
At this stage only forensic scientists can assist him not lawyers and/or lay people writing to him.
Oh females perchance? he will use the FS until they see through him. Why don't they run to his rescue with his 'new evidence'. Do the 'tests'.
I don't think for one minute JB is criminally insane- he was very sane because he was procuring what he wanted= money and how to get it. There is nothing evil about him either. Just a greedy,self serving,selfish low lowlife. who murdered innocent people in cold blood- and thought nothing of it, as they were an inconvenience to him.
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Might such empathy for convicted killers, I wonder, deserve the label "Personality Disorder", OR is it that the personalities of such are so strong they can mesmerize/reach an area in some which causes them to need to feel needed, necessary and useful?
I was quite moved by your opening posts on the thread April. It is an education in itself. Thank you for sharing.
I am surprised no one is accusing you of sour grapes that JB ditched you and your'advances' like JM was accused of at his trial. It is amazing how people will take that stance in utter denial of JB being cruel B@trd he is.
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I was quite moved by your opening posts on the thread April. It is an education in itself. Thank you for sharing.
I am surprised no one is accusing you of sour grapes that JB ditched you and your'advances' like JM was accused of at his trial. It is amazing how people will take that stance in utter denial of JB being cruel B@trd he is.
April didn't make the opening post Miss, that was Daisy.
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We don't know what they're doing. Perhaps they just think he's innocent.
I wouldn't choose to write to JB, but , as far as I'm concerned, others are perfectly free to do so.
Of course they’re free to write to him; they’re adults.
But how would you feel if, say, your daughter/mother/sister started writing to a convicted mass murderer? Would it not worry you?
Whatever their motives were; even if they said they had no romantic interest in him — wouldn’t it concern you?
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He now refers to himself as an ‘international jurist’
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO
“International Jurist, political prisoner sentenced with a forged PNC, 560 days over served! Non contested depo order since 2013 bt still here! Family manage acc
https://mobile.twitter.com/DEVILSADVOKAT/with_replies?lang=en
Good heavens!
You’d think he’d have crawled in a hole and hid! $6(&
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They have done no such thing.
What, are saying the forensic scientists didn’t find 13 of Sheila’s blood markers in their first test?
Then found SEVENTEEN in their second test?
Are you accusing them of LYING?
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The tests used at trial were not capable of connecting blood to individuals.
I think you’ll find all the qualified forensic scientists will tell you, Holly, that you’re wrong.
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They identified her type and the enzyme and before you suggest that RWB's blood could have been used as he had the same type, he would have had to know that - something he couldn't have known.
Quite
And although they had the same blood group, they didn’t share the same markers...which Holly can’t seem to accept *%87
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I didn’t mention the trial
What we're you referring to then?
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They identified her type and the enzyme and before you suggest that RWB's blood could have been used as he had the same type, he would have had to know that - something he couldn't have known.
I don't think I've ever stated RWB's blood could have been used? I've only ever used the fact he shared the same blood groups as SC to demonstrate how individuals share the same blood groups.
Dr Lincoln, a senior lecturer in blood serology groups, produced a report saying about 8% of the unrelated white British population share the same groups.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=276.0;attach=923
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What, are saying the forensic scientists didn’t find 13 of Sheila’s blood markers in their first test?
Then found SEVENTEEN in their second test?
Are you accusing them of LYING?
I've no idea what you mean by blood markers?
LCN DNA tests of the type carried out at appeal are not even capable of identifying the biological source eg blood, saliva, semen etc.
The scientists found a number of bands (not blood markers) were attributable to SC but this is hardly surprising when all human beings are 99.9% identical in their genetic makeup. Yes we are all only 0.01% different to JB in our genetic makeup!
It has been pointed out to you numerous times that the scientists and appeal court judges concluded the following about the LCN DNA tests:
497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:
i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;
ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and
iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
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I've no idea what you mean by blood markers?
LCN DNA tests of the type carried out at appeal are not even capable of identifying the biological source eg blood, saliva, semen etc.
The scientists found a number of bands (not blood markers) were attributable to SC but this is hardly surprising when all human beings are 99.9% identical in their genetic makeup. Yes we are all only 0.01% different to JB in our genetic makeup!
It has been pointed out to you numerous times that the scientists and appeal court judges concluded the following about the LCN DNA tests:
497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:
i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;
ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and
iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
But the overall conclusion was that the tests were "completely meaningless" as they were not capable of establishing how the DNA came to be in the silencer.
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I think you’ll find all the qualified forensic scientists will tell you, Holly, that you’re wrong.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3187.msg583788#msg583788
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Quiite.
And although they had the same blood group, they didn’t share the same markers...which Holly can’t seem to accept *%87
Tests based on blood serology groups and DNA are completely different.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3187.msg583793#msg583793
Where are you getting the term 'markers' from?
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Good heavens!
You’d think he’d have crawled in a hole and hid! $6(&
On Jacob Rees Mogg his son recently stated, ’His ‘faith’ is the cover for his filth!!’
GDS ‘I am not saying you are wrong but, there is a better way of saying it, son!’
https://mobile.twitter.com/DiStefano1410/status/1246775848742596609
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It's not impossible, Holly. I was surrounded by males -of all ages- of his type, most of them good looking, all well mannered, courteous, well educated and wealthy, and local!!! However, for all that, the irrefutable draw, which I can't separate myself from, is the fact of his adoption.
PS I never saw him in a sexual way. He was too much of a boy to attract me in that way.
Do you mean the fact he was adopted didn’t make him attractive to you or are you saying something else?
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Do you mean the fact he was adopted didn’t make him attractive to you or are you saying something else?
Ha! Yes, I meant something entirely different. As one of the adopted, I simply couldn't believe one of 'us' was capable of such wickedness. How naive of me, eh?
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Ha! Yes, I meant something entirely different. As one of the adopted, I simply couldn't believe one of 'us' was capable of such wickedness. How naive of me, eh?
I don't think adopted children are alike enough to be referred to as 'us'. The only thing the majority of them (or us) have in common in my opinion is a desire to know where they came from.
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I don't think adopted children are alike enough to be referred to as 'us'. The only thing the majority of them (or us) have in common in my opinion is a desire to know where they came from.
And yet Jeremy claims not to have had that.
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And yet Jeremy claims not to have had that.
Not all adopted children do. Many think about it for years before doing it.
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Not all adopted children do. Many think about it for years before doing it.
I thought it was the one thing you had in common two seconds ago? Funny, Bamber only thought about it after being arrested.
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I thought it was the one thing you had in common two seconds ago? Funny, Bamber only thought about it after being arrested.
I said 'the majority' not 'all'.
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I don't think adopted children are alike enough to be referred to as 'us'. The only thing the majority of them (or us) have in common in my opinion is a desire to know where they came from.
Of course. That's why I encased us as 'us' and acknowledged my naivety
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I said 'the majority' not 'all'.
Just to leave that little excuse for Bamber eh?
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Hybristophilia is the term for women who are attracted to those behind bars. His, one time, "Hooray Henry" looks would have been a huge attraction -and to some, evidence of his innocence- and an enticement to help him in any way possible.
How does ‘Hybristophilia’ apply to all those who believe/believed Bamber to be innocent?
’Hybristophilia’ is a paraphilia in which sexual arousal, facilitation, and attainment of orgasm are responsive to and contingent upon being with a partner known to have committed an outrage, cheating, lying, known infidelities, or crime—such as rape, murder, or armed robbery
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
“Hybristophilia is one of countless paraphilias, or abnormal and/or extreme sexual desires. “Basically, it’s a sexual attraction to someone who’s committed some sort of outrageous and extraordinary crime,” says Jeffrey Ian Ross, PhD, criminologist and professor at the University of Baltimore. Think: mass murderers, sexual murderers, and cult leaders.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a27397635/ted-bundy-hybristophilia-definition/
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And yet Jeremy claims not to have had that.
The research shows more females search than males and they do so earlier.
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How does ‘Hybristophilia’ apply to all those who believe/believed Bamber to be innocent?
’Hybristophilia’ is a paraphilia in which sexual arousal, facilitation, and attainment of orgasm are responsive to and contingent upon being with a partner known to have committed an outrage, cheating, lying, known infidelities, or crime—such as rape, murder, or armed robbery
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
“Hybristophilia is one of countless paraphilias, or abnormal and/or extreme sexual desires. “Basically, it’s a sexual attraction to someone who’s committed some sort of outrageous and extraordinary crime,” says Jeffrey Ian Ross, PhD, criminologist and professor at the University of Baltimore. Think: mass murderers, sexual murderers, and cult leaders.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a27397635/ted-bundy-hybristophilia-definition/
Like nymphomania, hybristophilia is a term applied. Both are generals as opposed to particulars.
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Like nymphomania, hybristophilia is a term applied. Both are generals as opposed to particulars.
So how does ‘hybristophilia’ apply to those who believe or believed in Bamber’s innocence; that was the term you applied.
You posted the following
Hybristophilia is the term for women who are attracted to those behind bars. His, one time, "Hooray Henry" looks would have been a huge attraction -and to some, evidence of his innocence- and an enticement to help him in any way possible.
in response to
There appears to be many women he’s done this to since being in prison.
I suppose now he’s aged (quite badly too, I read) he’s having to communicate with whoever writes to him, which must anger him inside
Are there any other women on here who’ve suffered the same disgraceful behaviour from Jeremy Bamaber when he’s realised he can no longer use them?
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The research shows more females search than males and they do so earlier.
Sheila. didn't search until later - but it's not the searching, it's the the denial of wanting to but then doing do. when he was in the shit.
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So how does ‘hybristophilia’ apply to those who believe or believed in Bamber’s innocence; that was the term you applied.
You posted the following
in response to
According to my post, I used the term "attracted to", which has very different meaning from "believing/believed".
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So how does ‘hybristophilia’ apply to those who believe or believed in Bamber’s innocence; that was the term you applied.
You posted the following
in response to
I must say, he never tried to use me - other than to sound off to and claim he would be free very soon. Maybe it depends on what you write to him. about, I always stuck to the case.
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According to my post, I used the term "attracted to", which has very different meaning from "believing/believed".
I don’t know if you were ‘attracted to’ Bamber or not but you once ‘believed’ in his innocence
My question was,
‘How does ‘hybristophilia’ apply to those who believe or believed in Bamber’s innocence ?
Here’s the original post
How does ‘Hybristophilia’ apply to all those who believe/believed Bamber to be innocent?
’Hybristophilia’ is a paraphilia in which sexual arousal, facilitation, and attainment of orgasm are responsive to and contingent upon being with a partner known to have committed an outrage, cheating, lying, known infidelities, or crime—such as rape, murder, or armed robbery
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
“Hybristophilia is one of countless paraphilias, or abnormal and/or extreme sexual desires. “Basically, it’s a sexual attraction to someone who’s committed some sort of outrageous and extraordinary crime,” says Jeffrey Ian Ross, PhD, criminologist and professor at the University of Baltimore. Think: mass murderers, sexual murderers, and cult leaders.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a27397635/ted-bundy-hybristophilia-definition/
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Like nymphomania, hybristophilia is a term applied. Both are generals as opposed to particulars.
‘Nymphomania is a type of compulsive disorder marked by mental and emotional imbalance
whereas ‘Hybristophilia’ is a paraphilia
This article https://wellcomecollection.org/articles/W_v8XxQAACgA_WKS suggests, ‘These days, the concept has morphed into the term hypersexuality.
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I must say, he never tried to use me - other than to sound off to and claim he would be free very soon. Maybe it depends on what you write to him. about, I always stuck to the case.
April didn’t say anything in her ‘ hybristophilia‘ post about Bamber using people?
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I've no idea what you mean by blood markers?
LCN DNA tests of the type carried out at appeal are not even capable of identifying the biological source eg blood, saliva, semen etc.
The scientists found a number of bands (not blood markers) were attributable to SC but this is hardly surprising when all human beings are 99.9% identical in their genetic makeup. Yes we are all only 0.01% different to JB in our genetic makeup!
It has been pointed out to you numerous times that the scientists and appeal court judges concluded the following about the LCN DNA tests:
497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:
i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;
ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and
iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Holly, if you don’t know forensic SCIENTISTS found THIRTEEN markers (out of 20) in the blood fake in the silencer, and established they belonged to SHEILA; and if you don’t know at the appeal, with improved forensic testing they found SEVENTEEN markers of Sheila’s which meant it was a TRILLION TO ONE that blood could’ve belonged to anyone else except Sheila, you shouldn’t be commenting because you can’t have read (or digested) the scientific FACTS.
All you need do is read the documents and you’ll find the report, OK?
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According to my post, I used the term "attracted to", which has very different meaning from "believing/believed".
One or two of your posts appear to have been removed ?
But no I do not believe SF was a fantasist
One of Poppy Ann Millers blogs headed, ‘Keeping Up Appearances’ refers to SF http://jeremybambercampaigner.blogspot.com/2013/01/of-sound-mind.html
as does this thread http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=193.0
It appears obvious why she’s been smeared the way she has & by who.
Was surprised to see you appearing to blame her for Bamber’s inactions/bs/gaslighting or whatever you want to call it
He gaslights and he recruits others to gaslight on his behalf, they are referred to as enablers. The pattern is always the same
‘Gaslighting is an insidious erosion of your sense of reality; it creates a mental fog of epic proportions in the twisted “funhouse” of smoke, mirrors, and distortions that is an abusive relationship. When a malignant narcissist gaslights you, they engage in crazymaking discussions and character assassinations..
https://blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2019/03/7-gaslighting-phrases-malignant-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-translated/
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I've no idea what you mean by blood markers?
LCN DNA tests of the type carried out at appeal are not even capable of identifying the biological source eg blood, saliva, semen etc.
The scientists found a number of bands (not blood markers) were attributable to SC but this is hardly surprising when all human beings are 99.9% identical in their genetic makeup. Yes we are all only 0.01% different to JB in our genetic makeup!
It has been pointed out to you numerous times that the scientists and appeal court judges concluded the following about the LCN DNA tests:
497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:
i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;
ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and
iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
We’re not all made up of the same DNA at all: if that were the case they wouldn’t be take swabs for DNA.
I have markers in my blood which is shared ONLY by relatives and ancestors. Besides a English, I have Scandinavian, some Southern Italian and Greek — and I’ve traced some of my ancestors and second/third cousins who share the same markers as mine.
When Sheila’s blood was first forensically tested in 1985 they found THIRTEEN markers that could have only come from Sheila. They knew that by taking a sample of Sheila’s biological mother’s blood.
However, the 13 markers wasn’t concrete proof it was Sheila’s, but it was enough to deeply suggest it WAS her blood. The judge was duty bound to tell the jury it wasn’t proven to be Sheila’s blood, but the 13 markers suggested it most likely was.
Years later at the appeal court, they discovered SEVENTEEN of Sheila’s markers, which indeed proved that it WAS her blood.
I’m tired of repeating myself. It’s all their in the documents. Please refresh yourself with the facts.
To be honest, I don’t know why you’re bothering, there’s absolutely nothing whatsoever to even even suggest Sheila was the murderer and Jeremy was innocent, nothing.
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But the overall conclusion was that the tests were "completely meaningless" as they were not capable of establishing how the DNA came to be in the silencer.
A while back you said they couldn’t even detect DNA in 1985, and now you’re quoting court documents which prove June’s DNA was inside the silencer...
The only reason they couldn’t absolutely prove Sheila’s was, is due to what I’ve previously explained to you in the simplest possible way
They only found 13 of Sheila’s markers, which weren’t enough to categorically prove it was — it suggested it was.
Again, I repeat for the last time, they later discovered SEVENTEEN of Sheila’s markers in that same blood flake, which was categoric proof it WAS Sheila’s blood. What don’t you understand about that?
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One or two of your posts appear to have been removed ?
But no I do not believe SF was a fantasist
One of Poppy Ann Millers blogs headed, ‘Keeping Up Appearances’ refers to SF http://jeremybambercampaigner.blogspot.com/2013/01/of-sound-mind.html
as does this thread http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=193.0
It appears obvious why she’s been smeared the way she has & by who.
Was surprised to see you appearing to blame her for Bamber’s inactions/bs/gaslighting or whatever you want to call it
He gaslights and he recruits others to gaslight on his behalf, they are referred to as enablers. The pattern is always the same
‘Gaslighting is an insidious erosion of your sense of reality; it creates a mental fog of epic proportions in the twisted “funhouse” of smoke, mirrors, and distortions that is an abusive relationship. When a malignant narcissist gaslights you, they engage in crazymaking discussions and character assassinations..
https://blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2019/03/7-gaslighting-phrases-malignant-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-translated/
It’s Poppy Ann Miller who appears to be the fantasist
‘I say all of this not to persecute her. Her own extended relatives and a wider community did enough of that when she was alive. It isn’t about apportioning blame and pointing the finger – but it is about establishing fact, and the fact is that contrary to the popular belief of 1985, Sheila was capable of harming her children..
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April didn’t say anything in her ‘ hybristophilia‘ post about Bamber using people?
I said he uses people, Nicholas, but that’s obvious going by all what people have written about him
I’ve seen some of the letters he’s written to women where he’s clearly manipulative, and trips himself up too. In one letter to a woman ( forgotten who now) he started off apologising for not writing sooner & wasted a whole page explaining why he hadn’t (overcompensating to make it sound truthful). At the end of the letter he said something which proved the first page was a total lie...
I read he brags how many letters he gets from women each week, and I bet he puts them in different piles, something like:
A) Reply quickly/tread carefully — smart woman
B) Reply within 2 weeks — test her out and dig
C) Reply whenever; a possible idiot
D) Possibly reply
E) Reply in desperation: lives in a council flat/rough area/on DSS
What I’m wondering is why he’s never seemed to talk about romance or sex? If he has, no-one’s ever mentioned it. Without sounding sexist, almost all men crave sex, and I’d be most surprised if out of all these women he hasn’t been attracted to one and gently led her into sex talk; asking her for provocative photos etc...nearly all men on the internet (even total strangers) will tell you you’re beautiful and how they’d love to meet you. I’m no fool — I know they tell all women that, probably. But all JB seems to talk about is HIMSELF. The few letters I’ve seen he never asks them anything...it’s all him, him, him.
I don’t know how true the rumours are that he’s gay or bisexual, but it is possible he’s had relationships in prison, especially after 35 years. Maybe he’s no longer attracted to women? He certainly finds it easy to drop them with no regard at all.
My hunch is that the one woman he did truly desire was Sue Ford, and I wonder if part of that was that she was older than him and he was searching for a mother figure. His biological mother had “rejected” him in his mind, but we don’t know how heartbroken she was at possibly being forced to give him up. Then June took over and never showed either children real affection, so maybe that’s why he was subconsciously looking for a mother figure.
Whatever the circumstances, you can’t create a psychopath — so whatever his upbringing & with whom, he’d still be a psychopath and there’s no denying he’s thoroughly evil.
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I don’t know how true the rumours are that he’s gay or bisexual, but it is possible he’s had relationships in prison, especially after 35 years. Maybe he’s no longer attracted to women? He certainly finds it easy to drop them with no regard at all
This is an extract from a report on ‘consensual and coercive’ sex in prisons
‘Gay and bisexual men reported that while they were “fairly” or “totally” open about their sexuality on the wing, they were discreet about their sexual activities and relationships.
They usually had sex in the cell of one of the participants or in the showers, during periods of association. Some men who shared cells had sex at night. When asked how many sexual partners interviewees had had in prison, numbers ranged from one to “about 30, 35”.
One heterosexual man said that he had had consensual sex with gay or bisexual prisoners “out of necessity”. He said he had resumed exclusively heterosexual relationships since leaving prison, and he added: “I’m completely straight; what happened then was just about having my sexual needs met, in a particular time and place, where I couldn’t get [heterosexual] sex.”
https://howardleague.org/news/prisonersexperiencesofsexinprison/
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Why are you questioning his private life or sexuality?
What he chooses to do with his life today or who he wishes to associate with is his business. If you are concerned for his welfare, then I would suggest you write and tell him yourself.
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It’s Poppy Ann Miller who appears to be the fantasist
‘I say all of this not to persecute her. Her own extended relatives and a wider community did enough of that when she was alive. It isn’t about apportioning blame and pointing the finger – but it is about establishing fact, and the fact is that contrary to the popular belief of 1985, Sheila was capable of harming her children..
That’s a sweeping statement considering Poppy never knew Sheila, and no-one EVER said she was capable of harming her children.
Disgraceful.
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This is an extract from a report on ‘consensual and coercive’ sex in prisons
‘Gay and bisexual men reported that while they were “fairly” or “totally” open about their sexuality on the wing, they were discreet about their sexual activities and relationships.
They usually had sex in the cell of one of the participants or in the showers, during periods of association. Some men who shared cells had sex at night. When asked how many sexual partners interviewees had had in prison, numbers ranged from one to “about 30, 35”.
One heterosexual man said that he had had consensual sex with gay or bisexual prisoners “out of necessity”. He said he had resumed exclusively heterosexual relationships since leaving prison, and he added: “I’m completely straight; what happened then was just about having my sexual needs met, in a particular time and place, where I couldn’t get [heterosexual] sex.”
https://howardleague.org/news/prisonersexperiencesofsexinprison/
Well, if heterosexual can have gay sex out of necessity, considering there were rumours that Jeremy was bisexual anyway, and Brett Collins alluded to them having had a “close affair”, I’d be most surprised if Jeremy hasn’t had flings/relationships with fellow prisoners.
I wonder what the women, some of whom have an infatuation with him think about that?
Mind you, if they can turn a blind eye to him shooting little boys dead, I s’pose they can also erase the thought of him passionately kissing a man and having sex with him...
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I said he uses people, Nicholas, but that’s obvious going by all what people have written about him
I’ve seen some of the letters he’s written to women where he’s clearly manipulative, and trips himself up too. In one letter to a woman ( forgotten who now) he started off apologising for not writing sooner & wasted a whole page explaining why he hadn’t (overcompensating to make it sound truthful). At the end of the letter he said something which proved the first page was a total lie...
I read he brags how many letters he gets from women each week, and I bet he puts them in different piles, something like:
A) Reply quickly/tread carefully — smart woman
B) Reply within 2 weeks — test her out and dig
C) Reply whenever; a possible idiot
D) Possibly reply
E) Reply in desperation: lives in a council flat/rough area/on DSS
What I’m wondering is why he’s never seemed to talk about romance or sex? If he has, no-one’s ever mentioned it. Without sounding sexist, almost all men crave sex, and I’d be most surprised if out of all these women he hasn’t been attracted to one and gently led her into sex talk; asking her for provocative photos etc...nearly all men on the internet (even total strangers) will tell you you’re beautiful and how they’d love to meet you. I’m no fool — I know they tell all women that, probably. But all JB seems to talk about is HIMSELF. The few letters I’ve seen he never asks them anything...it’s all him, him, him.
I don’t know how true the rumours are that he’s gay or bisexual, but it is possible he’s had relationships in prison, especially after 35 years. Maybe he’s no longer attracted to women? He certainly finds it easy to drop them with no regard at all.
My hunch is that the one woman he did truly desire was Sue Ford, and I wonder if part of that was that she was older than him and he was searching for a mother figure. His biological mother had “rejected” him in his mind, but we don’t know how heartbroken she was at possibly being forced to give him up. Then June took over and never showed either children real affection, so maybe that’s why he was subconsciously looking for a mother figure.
Whatever the circumstances, you can’t create a psychopath — so whatever his upbringing & with whom, he’d still be a psychopath and there’s no denying he’s thoroughly evil.
Suspect he used her like he used JM
He views people like objects - it’s all about power & control
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Are you so bored of life that all you can do is stoop to such a level as to question his private life or sexuality?
It really is None of your business what he chooses to do with his life today or who he wishes to associate with, other than it be a concern for his welfare, then I would suggest you write and tell him yourself.
You tear this man to pieces and your perceptions and views at times are really beyond the pale. It's embarrassing to read.
I’m not bored of life at all, Agatha.
I usually have a busy life and love socialising with friends and family, but like yourself and the rest of the world, I’m in lockdown at the moment, hence why I have time on my hands to contribute more than I’d normally do.
This thread is about Jeremy Bamber and the heinous crimes he committed, so obviously various aspects of his life, lifestyle, doings are discussed. It is a discussion board, and some people find it interesting what makes evil people tick.
And I don’t know why it should bother you who he has relationships or sex with, be it men or woman, or both...you’re not in a romantic relationship with him, so it shouldn’t bother you in the slightest. Indeed, as you appear to like him so much, you should be happy for him that he may be enjoying a close, passionate sex life in prison. Maybe that’s why he comes across quite chirpy — he might be having a ball for all you know.
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Well, if heterosexual can have gay sex out of necessity, considering there were rumours that Jeremy was bisexual anyway, and Brett Collins alluded to them having had a “close affair”, I’d be most surprised if Jeremy hasn’t had flings/relationships with fellow prisoners.
I wonder what the women, some of whom have an infatuation with him think about that?
Mind you, if they can turn a blind eye to him shooting little boys dead, I s’pose they can also erase the thought of him passionately kissing a man and having sex with him...
Maybe Bamber is the author of this https://jeremybamber.org/the-inheritance-issue/
“Homophobia
Information on this web site was first uploaded to the internet in December 2011
1980’s attitudes towards Homosexuality
Who’s ‘idealisations’ do they represent; or was there more than one contributor?
‘Even if Jeremy Bamber were a self confessed homosexual it remains to be seen how this connects with the tragedies at White House Farm. As recently as 2004 Jeremy was depicted in a documentary as a homosexual and a transvestite on a tractor. It is clear that questions over Jeremy’s sexuality have persistently been used to persecute him and government bodies set up to regulate this have done nothing.
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Suspect he used her like he used JM
He views people like objects - it’s all about power & control
Oh, absolutely.
But I think he desired her more than he did JM, somehow. He doesn’t feel emotions, obviously, but I feel he desired SF sexually. And yes, he was using her for that.
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A while back you said they couldn’t even detect DNA in 1985, and now you’re quoting court documents which prove June’s DNA was inside the silencer...
The only reason they couldn’t absolutely prove Sheila’s was, is due to what I’ve previously explained to you in the simplest possible way
They only found 13 of Sheila’s markers, which weren’t enough to categorically prove it was — it suggested it was.
Again, I repeat for the last time, they later discovered SEVENTEEN of Sheila’s markers in that same blood flake, which was categoric proof it WAS Sheila’s blood. What don’t you understand about that?
See if you can understand and remember this;
At the date of the investigation into this case DNA testing was not available for consideration of the source of body fluids. Hence the blood samples and blood staining was not subjected to such testing and was only subjected to the much less sensitive blood group testing to which we have already referred.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html (item 476) 2002 Appeal
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I’m not bored of life at all, Agatha.
I usually have a busy life and love socialising with friends and family, but like yourself and the rest of the world, I’m in lockdown at the moment, hence why I have time on my hands to contribute more than I’d normally do.
This thread is about Jeremy Bamber and the heinous crimes he committed, so obviously various aspects of his life, lifestyle, doings are discussed. It is a discussion board, and some people find it interesting what makes evil people tick.
And I don’t know why it should bother you who he has relationships or sex with, be it men or woman, or both...you’re not in a romantic relationship with him, so it shouldn’t bother you in the slightest. Indeed, as you appear to like him so much, you should be happy for him that he may be enjoying a close, passionate sex life in prison. Maybe that’s why he comes across quite chirpy — he might be having a ball for all you know.
Or even two.
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Are you so bored of life that all you can do is stoop to such a level as to question his private life or sexuality?
It really is None of your business what he chooses to do with his life today or who he wishes to associate with, other than it be a concern for his welfare, then I would suggest you write and tell him yourself.
You tear this man to pieces and your perceptions and views at times are really beyond the pale. It's embarrassing to read.
Why are you embarrassed ?
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Are you so bored of life that all you can do is stoop to such a level as to question his private life or sexuality?
It really is None of your business what he chooses to do with his life today or who he wishes to associate with, other than it be a concern for his welfare, then I would suggest you write and tell him yourself.
You tear this man to pieces and your perceptions and views at times are really beyond the pale. It's embarrassing to read.
I agree completely. It's illuminating as to the contents of some people's minds, but has no bearing on the case whatsoever.
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Or even two.
Suspect it’s a lot more than two
“When asked how many sexual partners interviewees had had in prison, numbers ranged from one to “about 30, 35”.
How many ‘hetrosexual’ men are going to admit to anyone they had sex with Bamber?
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Suspect it’s a lot more than two
“When asked how many sexual partners interviewees had had in prison, numbers ranged from one to “about 30, 35”.
How many ‘hetrosexual’ men are going to admit to anyone they had sex with Bamber?
I think Vertigo Swirl was referring to Ispywithmybigeye's post that JB might be having more than one ball in prison!
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I think Vertigo Swirl was referring to Ispywithmybigeye's post that JB might be having more than one ball in prison!
*%87
“he might be having a ball for all you know” is what he said
I’m not bored of life at all, Agatha.
I usually have a busy life and love socialising with friends and family, but like yourself and the rest of the world, I’m in lockdown at the moment, hence why I have time on my hands to contribute more than I’d normally do.
This thread is about Jeremy Bamber and the heinous crimes he committed, so obviously various aspects of his life, lifestyle, doings are discussed. It is a discussion board, and some people find it interesting what makes evil people tick.
And I don’t know why it should bother you who he has relationships or sex with, be it men or woman, or both...you’re not in a romantic relationship with him, so it shouldn’t bother you in the slightest. Indeed, as you appear to like him so much, you should be happy for him that he may be enjoying a close, passionate sex life in prison. Maybe that’s why he comes across quite chirpy — he might be having a ball for all you know.
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*%87
“he might be having a ball for all you know” is what he said
And Vertigo Swirl posted:
"Or even two"
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See if you can understand and remember this;
At the date of the investigation into this case DNA testing was not available for consideration of the source of body fluids. Hence the blood samples and blood staining was not subjected to such testing and was only subjected to the much less sensitive blood group testing to which we have already referred.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html (item 476) 2002 Appeal
I will arrange for these posts to be removed to a separate thread.
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Might such empathy for convicted killers, I wonder, deserve the label "Personality Disorder", OR is it that the personalities of such are so strong they can mesmerize/reach an area in some which causes them to need to feel needed, necessary and useful?
Interesting
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And Vertigo Swirl posted:
"Or even two"
Yes it was an attempt at humour.
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And Vertigo Swirl posted:
"Or even two"
Yes it was an attempt at humour.
8((()*/
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Sheila. didn't search until later - but it's not the searching, it's the the denial of wanting to but then doing do. when he was in the shit.
SC was reunited with her birth mother during May '85 when she was 27 yoa. I understand they communicated via letters for a number of years beforehand.
JB went to prison when he was 24 yoa so had little opportunity to get the ball rolling even if he had wanted to.
I doubt many adoptees wake up on their 18th birthday chomping at the bit to meet their birth parents.
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It’s Poppy Ann Miller who appears to be the fantasist
‘I say all of this not to persecute her. Her own extended relatives and a wider community did enough of that when she was alive. It isn’t about apportioning blame and pointing the finger – but it is about establishing fact, and the fact is that contrary to the popular belief of 1985, Sheila was capable of harming her children..
More projections from her blog
“Away from almost everything else we have to keep in mind that we’re talking about the mid 1980s when understanding was comparatively close to non-existent and acceptance was even less. Within that, we can see just why Jeremy and Sheila’s parents did all they could to try and keep it in house. A family’s business is its business, after all, and within an extremely small community in which everyone’s affairs were the subject of the idle chit-chat, you would be livid at the idea of your daughter’s struggle with schizophrenia being reduced to the “Ooooh did you hear” of the day.
As a race and as a country we are, even in 2013, embarrassed and scornful of things we don’t understand. If it’s beyond your comprehension, just take the piss out of it – that’s the British way. And unfortunately that was the way in 1985, too. Jeremy himself detailed to me in some pain about the fact that his family were at times seen as the funny farm – so to speak – of their local community; those loopy Bambers and their crazy daughter. That’s just how things were.
Out of sheer embarrassment, that is unfortunately why back at Jeremy’s trial, those who stood to benefit from his conviction – in whatever manner – helped paint the picture that Sheila’s mood was of calmness and sound mind in the hours and on the days surrounding the murders. Why, outside of their own little community bubble would they want to share what they saw as the shame of having someone 'like that' living among them? For a lot of them it was all about keeping up appearances - to not lose face, and out of selfishness and greed for some of them too.
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See if you can understand and remember this;
At the date of the investigation into this case DNA testing was not available for consideration of the source of body fluids. Hence the blood samples and blood staining was not subjected to such testing and was only subjected to the much less sensitive blood group testing to which we have already referred.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html (item 476) 2002 Appeal
So how did they establish June’s DNA, then?
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I agree completely. It's illuminating as to the contents of some people's minds, but has no bearing on the case whatsoever.
Actually, G-Unit,
Jeremy Bamber’s sexuality is important in this.
Back in the mid 1980s when AIDS became known as a gay disease, homophobia reached a peak. If it’s true that Jeremy was bisexual, or even gay & was suppressing that by dating women too; and there was so much talk about him being gay, acting gay, dressing as a woman and walking down the village with his gay associates, it must have sent June into a spin. She was so conservative and even thought sex before marriage was a sin, so she must have been horrified seeing Jeremy prance around effeminately, and possibly hearing local gossip how he kissed men in local pubs etc.
If Jeremy’s homosexual leanings were far greater than he let on, that was even more reason he had to kill them all: June and maybe Nevill too, would have disowned him if he came out as gay. Yes, his primary reason was money, but after he murdered them he seemed to spend as much time, if not more, with Brett than he did Julie. Although he still had one or two women on the go before he and Julie split up just weeks later, they could have been beards. It was Brett who lived with him after the murders, and when the police arrested them early Sunday morning, Jeremy came to the door in jeans and a top, while Brett laid sprawled naked on one of the twins’ single beds. That looks fishy, somehow. Why would Brett be naked on top of the twin’s bed, yet Jeremy was dressed at such an early hour? When they heard that door banging they knew it was the police, and it’s quite possible Brett ran into the twins’ room in panic & pretended to still be asleep despite all that loud noise of the door banging. Jeremy deliberately pulled his jeans on to make it look like he’d been up ages...at 7am on a Sunday morning? Why wasn’t he wearing his bathrobe; the one he claimed he wore on the night of the murders? Few people shower & get dressed so early on a Sunday morning, and Brett certainly hadn’t...there’s just something fishy there...
So one does wonder if after Jeremy had finally split with Julie, he planned to slowly ease Brett in to WHF, and live as a closeted couple before selling up and moving to Australia together. It’s certainly a possibility.
Which means Jeremy had TWO reasons to murder them all: he wanted his inheritance (including Sheila’s and the twins), and he knew if June discovered her fears that was gay were true, she’d have thrown him out, disinherited him, and he’d have been couch surfing while working at Sloppy Joe’s...bang goes the Porsche.
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So how did they establish June’s DNA, then?
Read this;
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
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Actually, G-Unit,
Jeremy Bamber’s sexuality is important in this.
Back in the mid 1980s when AIDS became known as a gay disease, homophobia reached a peak. If it’s true that Jeremy was bisexual, or even gay & was suppressing that by dating women too; and there was so much talk about him being gay, acting gay, dressing as a woman and walking down the village with his gay associates, it must have sent June into a spin. She was so conservative and even thought sex before marriage was a sin, so she must have been horrified seeing Jeremy prance around effeminately, and possibly hearing local gossip how he kissed men in local pubs etc.
If Jeremy’s homosexual leanings were far greater than he let on, that was even more reason he had to kill them all: June and maybe Nevill too, would have disowned him if he came out as gay. Yes, his primary reason was money, but after he murdered them he seemed to spend as much time, if not more, with Brett than he did Julie. Although he still had one or two women on the go before he and Julie split up just weeks later, they could have been beards. It was Brett who lived with him after the murders, and when the police arrested them early Sunday morning, Jeremy came to the door in jeans and a top, while Brett laid sprawled naked on one of the twins’ single beds. That looks fishy, somehow. Why would Brett be naked on top of the twin’s bed, yet Jeremy was dressed at such an early hour? When they heard that door banging they knew it was the police, and it’s quite possible Brett ran into the twins’ room in panic & pretended to still be asleep despite all that loud noise of the door banging. Jeremy deliberately pulled his jeans on to make it look like he’d been up ages...at 7am on a Sunday morning? Why wasn’t he wearing his bathrobe; the one he claimed he wore on the night of the murders? Few people shower & get dressed so early on a Sunday morning, and Brett certainly hadn’t...there’s just something fishy there...
So one does wonder if after Jeremy had finally split with Julie, he planned to slowly ease Brett in to WHF, and live as a closeted couple before selling up and moving to Australia together. It’s certainly a possibility.
Which means Jeremy had TWO reasons to murder them all: he wanted his inheritance (including Sheila’s and the twins), and he knew if June discovered her fears that was gay were true, she’d have thrown him out, disinherited him, and he’d have been couch surfing while working at Sloppy Joe’s...bang goes the Porsche.
I haven't read all the above yet, but since when is having a gay friend amongst your friendship group indicative of your own sexuality? Given his relationships with SF, JM and AG it seems to me he was very much heterosexual. If he was bisexual so what? It wasn't illegal. Its a personal choice and private matter.
Has any woman, man or child ever claimed he was sexually inappropriate around them?
All the images I've seen of him show him smartly dressed but if he did wear makeup it was all part of the New Romantic scene of the 80's eg Duran Duran, Gary Numan, Visage etc:
Both sexes often dressed in androgynous clothing and wore cosmetics such as eyeliner and lipstick, partly derived from earlier punk fashions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Romantic
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Actually, G-Unit,
Jeremy Bamber’s sexuality is important in this.
Back in the mid 1980s when AIDS became known as a gay disease, homophobia reached a peak. If it’s true that Jeremy was bisexual, or even gay & was suppressing that by dating women too; and there was so much talk about him being gay, acting gay, dressing as a woman and walking down the village with his gay associates, it must have sent June into a spin. She was so conservative and even thought sex before marriage was a sin, so she must have been horrified seeing Jeremy prance around effeminately, and possibly hearing local gossip how he kissed men in local pubs etc.
If Jeremy’s homosexual leanings were far greater than he let on, that was even more reason he had to kill them all: June and maybe Nevill too, would have disowned him if he came out as gay. Yes, his primary reason was money, but after he murdered them he seemed to spend as much time, if not more, with Brett than he did Julie. Although he still had one or two women on the go before he and Julie split up just weeks later, they could have been beards. It was Brett who lived with him after the murders, and when the police arrested them early Sunday morning, Jeremy came to the door in jeans and a top, while Brett laid sprawled naked on one of the twins’ single beds. That looks fishy, somehow. Why would Brett be naked on top of the twin’s bed, yet Jeremy was dressed at such an early hour? When they heard that door banging they knew it was the police, and it’s quite possible Brett ran into the twins’ room in panic & pretended to still be asleep despite all that loud noise of the door banging. Jeremy deliberately pulled his jeans on to make it look like he’d been up ages...at 7am on a Sunday morning? Why wasn’t he wearing his bathrobe; the one he claimed he wore on the night of the murders? Few people shower & get dressed so early on a Sunday morning, and Brett certainly hadn’t...there’s just something fishy there...
So one does wonder if after Jeremy had finally split with Julie, he planned to slowly ease Brett in to WHF, and live as a closeted couple before selling up and moving to Australia together. It’s certainly a possibility.
Which means Jeremy had TWO reasons to murder them all: he wanted his inheritance (including Sheila’s and the twins), and he knew if June discovered her fears that was gay were true, she’d have thrown him out, disinherited him, and he’d have been couch surfing while working at Sloppy Joe’s...bang goes the Porsche.
I don't believe Jeremy was gay. He had enough heterosexual relationships to indicate that he was not.
I doubt if he was bisexual either, but I can't say for certain.
I do agree, however, that coming out as gay in the Bamber family would not have gone down too well. IMO, it would never have happened, though.
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I haven't read all the above yet, but since when is having a gay friend amongst your friendship group indicative of your own sexuality? Given his relationships with SF, JM and AG it seems to me he was very much heterosexual. If he was bisexual so what? It wasn't illegal. Its a personal choice and private matter.
Has any woman, man or child ever claimed he was sexually inappropriate around them?
All the images I've seen of him show him smartly dressed but if he did wear makeup it was all part of the New Romantic scene of the 80's eg Duran Duran, Gary Numan, Visage etc:
Both sexes often dressed in androgynous clothing and wore cosmetics such as eyeliner and lipstick, partly derived from earlier punk fashions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Romantic
He didn’t have just one gay friend, though, Holly. In fact, he had few real friends, but the acquaintances he hung out with were mainly gay. He’s admitted that. Brett Collins said Jeremy had a gay affair with his friend in New Zealand before they themselves got close. And Jeremy was seen kissing men passionately in public & flirting.
Julie said he’d told her that he’d had a gay affair before meeting her, so it’s no wonder she got suspicious when Brett turned up...
I certainly don’t think he was “very much heterosexual” going by everything I’ve read on him, including how he lacks that “manliness” heterosexual men have. Of course there’s nothing wrong in being gay/bisexual, but it’s definitely not a choice. One doesn’t CHOOSE to be attracted to the same sex: they just are.
You’ve missed my point, entirely, Holly.
June and possibly Nevill would have felt huge embarrassment by that, especially June, and that could be why she wanted him to marry Julie — she probably guessed he had homosexual leanings and it must have made her a bag of nerves by wondering what the village would say. You think because he had lots of flings with women meant he was straight, but actually, many men who are gay will sleep with as many women as possible in the hope to “cure” their desires. They become promiscuous because they’re not being fulfilled and not getting what they really want. It’s quite telling that his first proper gay affair happened in NZ away from the family, and it’s also telling how he yearned to get away to London, Australia or NZ.
It’s also telling how Brett and Jeremy sniggered when someone mentioned him and Julie getting engaged. Julie felt so humiliated at how cruel they both were to her when Brett laughed as Jeremy said they certainly weren’t. Brett and Julie appeared to “fight” for Jeremy’s affections, and it seems Brett won...
The homosexuality aspect is insignificant, but what is significant is that if Jeremy wanted to come out, and going by his previous, that’s a possibility, he knew he couldn’t do that as June would disown him and he’d have not one penny. Even Julie asked him why he couldn’t wait, and that he’d eventually have so much money from the farm , businesses and properties, but he said he couldn’t wait — he wanted it now.
So he had TWO reasons to murder, in my opinion.
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There appears to be many women he’s done this to since being in prison.
I suppose now he’s aged (quite badly too, I read) he’s having to communicate with whoever writes to him, which must anger him inside
Are there any other women on here who’ve suffered the same disgraceful behaviour from Jeremy Bamaber when he’s realised he can no longer use them?
Hybristophilia is the term for women who are attracted to those behind bars. His, one time, "Hooray Henry" looks would have been a huge attraction -and to some, evidence of his innocence- and an enticement to help him in any way possible.
You still haven’t answered on this claim you made April?
How does Hybristophilia apply to Bamber supporters if they believe he’s innocent?
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You still haven’t answered on this claim you made April?
How does Hybristophilia apply to Bamber supporters if they believe he’s innocent?
In this post you state
I don't know to which "physical evidence" you're referring.
Neither do I when you refer to ‘Hybristophilia’ and Bamber supporters? Pls clarify. Thx
Hybristophilia is the term for women who are attracted to those behind bars. His, one time, "Hooray Henry" looks would have been a huge attraction -and to some, evidence of his innocence- and an enticement to help him in any way possible.
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Actually, G-Unit,
Jeremy Bamber’s sexuality is important in this.
Back in the mid 1980s when AIDS became known as a gay disease, homophobia reached a peak. If it’s true that Jeremy was bisexual, or even gay & was suppressing that by dating women too; and there was so much talk about him being gay, acting gay, dressing as a woman and walking down the village with his gay associates, it must have sent June into a spin. She was so conservative and even thought sex before marriage was a sin, so she must have been horrified seeing Jeremy prance around effeminately, and possibly hearing local gossip how he kissed men in local pubs etc.
Bamber would have been tested for HIV etc in prison
According to the Terrance Higgins Trust, ‘Someone can only be charged with intentional transmission if it can be proved they maliciously and intentionally tried to give the other person HIV
https://www.tht.org.uk/hiv-and-sexual-health/living-well-hiv/legal-issues/how-law-works
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On the point of Jeremy's health he is not a well man. He has several serious health problems and is in constant pain. He has also lost a lot of weight (intentionally or not I don't kinow).
Do you think he may have been taking drugs Daisy or do you think there was another reason for him allegedly losing weight ?
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Well said AA yes Simon Mckay was acutely embarrassed when he took a man's word who promised to fund the Danny Nightingale Appeal. The promise of a large sum was made and when Simon made contact for this to be paid, the man had disappeared. The company he claimed to work for had never heard of him. This is precisely the point I am making - do checks first before proceeding!! If an experienced lawyer can be "had" then Jeremy certainly can.
How do you know this Daisy?
Apparently Pat Johnson helped fund the Chris Nudds campaign ?
In a post here https://home.38degrees.org.uk/2012/11/26/danny-nightingale-guest-post-from-simon-kay/
from Nov 2012 it states;
Here’s an excerpt:
“Pat Johnson, a 38 Degrees member, has set up a petition on the new Campaigns by You area of the 38 Degrees website. The petition calls for the release of Sergeant Danny Nightingale who was jailed to 18 months’ detention for possessing a pistol given to him as a gift by soldiers he had trained in the Iraqi army.
Danny Nightingale’s solicitor is Simon McKay. In this guest blog, he discusses ‘the public interest’ and the importance of the Campaigns by You petition to Danny Nightingale’s appeal against his sentence.
Interestingly Pat Johnson used to support Chris Nudds aka Christopher Docherty-Puncheon
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-20151531
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/149380/Villagers-walking-in-the-shadow-of-death
Chris was a rat catcher https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/christopher-docherty-puncheon-midsomer-murderer-jailed-1418971
Further links of interest
http://www.mojuk.org.uk/Portia/archive%2013/nudds.html
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/chrisnudds
https://4wardeveruk.org/2011/03/sign-the-petition-for-chris-nudds/
Mark McDonald represented Nuds (sic) on appeal https://www.mansfieldchambers.co.uk/mark-mcdonald/
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He didn’t have just one gay friend, though, Holly. In fact, he had few real friends, but the acquaintances he hung out with were mainly gay. He’s admitted that. Brett Collins said Jeremy had a gay affair with his friend in New Zealand before they themselves got close. And Jeremy was seen kissing men passionately in public & flirting.
Julie said he’d told her that he’d had a gay affair before meeting her, so it’s no wonder she got suspicious when Brett turned up...
I certainly don’t think he was “very much heterosexual” going by everything I’ve read on him, including how he lacks that “manliness” heterosexual men have. Of course there’s nothing wrong in being gay/bisexual, but it’s definitely not a choice. One doesn’t CHOOSE to be attracted to the same sex: they just are.
You’ve missed my point, entirely, Holly.
June and possibly Nevill would have felt huge embarrassment by that, especially June, and that could be why she wanted him to marry Julie — she probably guessed he had homosexual leanings and it must have made her a bag of nerves by wondering what the village would say. You think because he had lots of flings with women meant he was straight, but actually, many men who are gay will sleep with as many women as possible in the hope to “cure” their desires. They become promiscuous because they’re not being fulfilled and not getting what they really want. It’s quite telling that his first proper gay affair happened in NZ away from the family, and it’s also telling how he yearned to get away to London, Australia or NZ.
It’s also telling how Brett and Jeremy sniggered when someone mentioned him and Julie getting engaged. Julie felt so humiliated at how cruel they both were to her when Brett laughed as Jeremy said they certainly weren’t. Brett and Julie appeared to “fight” for Jeremy’s affections, and it seems Brett won...
The homosexuality aspect is insignificant, but what is significant is that if Jeremy wanted to come out, and going by his previous, that’s a possibility, he knew he couldn’t do that as June would disown him and he’d have not one penny. Even Julie asked him why he couldn’t wait, and that he’d eventually have so much money from the farm , businesses and properties, but he said he couldn’t wait — he wanted it now.
So he had TWO reasons to murder, in my opinion.
Is this something you've researched? If not how do you know? And if yes, why?
There's no evidence he was 'promiscuous' and/or had loads of flings with women.
JM saying this, that or the other doesn't make it so. She admitted to:
- cheque fraud
- acting as a lookout for JB when he burgled OCP
- selling JB's cannabis on campus
- taking cocaine in a hotel room with a female friend and two males
Hardly reliable.
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Actually, G-Unit,
Jeremy Bamber’s sexuality is important in this.
Back in the mid 1980s when AIDS became known as a gay disease, homophobia reached a peak. If it’s true that Jeremy was bisexual, or even gay & was suppressing that by dating women too; and there was so much talk about him being gay, acting gay, dressing as a woman and walking down the village with his gay associates, it must have sent June into a spin. She was so conservative and even thought sex before marriage was a sin, so she must have been horrified seeing Jeremy prance around effeminately, and possibly hearing local gossip how he kissed men in local pubs etc.
If Jeremy’s homosexual leanings were far greater than he let on, that was even more reason he had to kill them all: June and maybe Nevill too, would have disowned him if he came out as gay. Yes, his primary reason was money, but after he murdered them he seemed to spend as much time, if not more, with Brett than he did Julie. Although he still had one or two women on the go before he and Julie split up just weeks later, they could have been beards. It was Brett who lived with him after the murders, and when the police arrested them early Sunday morning, Jeremy came to the door in jeans and a top, while Brett laid sprawled naked on one of the twins’ single beds. That looks fishy, somehow. Why would Brett be naked on top of the twin’s bed, yet Jeremy was dressed at such an early hour? When they heard that door banging they knew it was the police, and it’s quite possible Brett ran into the twins’ room in panic & pretended to still be asleep despite all that loud noise of the door banging. Jeremy deliberately pulled his jeans on to make it look like he’d been up ages...at 7am on a Sunday morning? Why wasn’t he wearing his bathrobe; the one he claimed he wore on the night of the murders? Few people shower & get dressed so early on a Sunday morning, and Brett certainly hadn’t...there’s just something fishy there...
So one does wonder if after Jeremy had finally split with Julie, he planned to slowly ease Brett in to WHF, and live as a closeted couple before selling up and moving to Australia together. It’s certainly a possibility.
Which means Jeremy had TWO reasons to murder them all: he wanted his inheritance (including Sheila’s and the twins), and he knew if June discovered her fears that was gay were true, she’d have thrown him out, disinherited him, and he’d have been couch surfing while working at Sloppy Joe’s...bang goes the Porsche.
Jeremy had No gay relationships before his imprisonment.
During the period I knew him him, he did not fancy men, either as a bisexual or gay.
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Is this something you've researched? If not how do you know? And if yes, why?
There's no evidence he was 'promiscuous' and/or had loads of flings with women.
JM saying this, that or the other doesn't make it so. She admitted to:
- cheque fraud
- acting as a lookout for JB when he burgled OCP
- selling JB's cannabis on campus
- taking cocaine in a hotel room with a female friend and two males
Hardly reliable.
Brett speaks and everybody now believes him. He ha slied in the past therefore he is an unreliable witness.
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Is this something you've researched? If not how do you know? And if yes, why?
There's no evidence he was 'promiscuous' and/or had loads of flings with women.
JM saying this, that or the other doesn't make it so. She admitted to:
- cheque fraud
- acting as a lookout for JB when he burgled OCP
- selling JB's cannabis on campus
- taking cocaine in a hotel room with a female friend and two males
Hardly reliable.
Would you describe JB as a reliable witness?
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Jeremy had No gay relationships before his imprisonment.
During the period I knew him him, he did not fancy men, either as a bisexual or gay.
Bashing the bishop in Wakefield is the only enjoyment he'll get these days.
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Bashing the bishop in Wakefield is the only enjoyment he'll get these days.
But I'm sure he gets a buzz out of knowing we enjoy mass debating over him!
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Please refrain from making any personal comments whatsoever. If you are are on the receiving end of any, then please use the 'report facility' or pm me the link. Please do not retaliate. Anyone found to continually flout the rules will face sanctions. Thanks.
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Would you describe JB as a reliable witness?
Bump.
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Bump.
Yes of course, why not? I think he talks a lot of nonsense now but that's hardly surprising when he has been in jail for nearly 35 years &%%6
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Yes of course, why not? I think he talks a lot of nonsense now but that's hardly surprising when he has been in jail for nearly 35 years &%%6
But you dismiss JM as unreliable because she is a liar and a thief, involved in drug taking. Are you suggesting JB is not a proven liar and thief involved in drug taking, or are you exhibiting double standards ?
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But you dismiss JM as unreliable because she is a liar and a thief, involved in drug taking. Are you suggesting JB is not a proven liar and thief involved in drug taking, or are you exhibiting double standards ?
Has JB lied?
I believe JB stole from the family firm as June was withholding payments until he 'learned to live properly'. This was no doubt her objection to him having sexual relationships outside of marriage. He was 24 yoa and his income should not have been dependent on perfectly acceptable lifestyle choices.
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Has JB lied?
I believe JB stole from the family firm as June was withholding payments until he 'learned to live properly'. This was no doubt her objection to him having sexual relationships outside of marriage. He was 24 yoa and his income should not have been dependent on perfectly acceptable lifestyle choices.
JB has changed his story so many times it seems some of what he has said must be lies, and some of it is certainly contradicted by other witnesses so I would say yes, he has lied, and he has also stolen and he has also been involved in drugs, the growing and sale of. But you think he’s a reliable witness. Interesting.
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JB has changed his story so many times it seems some of what he has said must be lies, and some of it is certainly contradicted by other witnesses so I would say yes, he has lied, and he has also stolen and he has also been involved in drugs, the growing and sale of. But you think he’s a reliable witness. Interesting.
I think he surrounds himself with people who fill his head with rubbish. Eg his recent claim that he has an alibi re the movement at the window. I believe this resulted in BC calling him out.
As my friend says 'We all have our poison"! JB's was cannabis. He had the means and wherewithal to grow for own use and sold it to mainly persons known for a small profit but interestingly although much was made about OCP in his police interviews and at trial not a word about the cannabis.
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I think he surrounds himself with people who fill his head with rubbish. Eg his recent claim that he has an alibi re the movement at the window. I believe this resulted in BC calling him out.
As my friend says 'We all have our poison"! JB's was cannabis. He had the means and wherewithal to grow for own use and sold it to mainly persons known for a small profit but interestingly although much was made about OCP in his police interviews and at trial not a word about the cannabis.
What's the cannabis got to do with anything?
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I think he surrounds himself with people who fill his head with rubbish. Eg his recent claim that he has an alibi re the movement at the window.
Barry George’s sister Michelle Diskin Bates claims to have seen this on all night TV
Is she filling Bamber’s head with rubbish like you claim?
I think he surrounds himself with people who fill his head with rubbish.
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I think he surrounds himself with people who fill his head with rubbish.
What rubbish has Aunt Agatha filled his head with?
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Barry George’s sister Michelle Diskin Bates claims to have seen this on all night TV
Is she filling Bamber’s head with rubbish like you claim?
It wasn't on all night TV. @)(++(*
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I think he surrounds himself with people who fill his head with rubbish. Eg his recent claim that he has an alibi re the movement at the window. I believe this resulted in BC calling him out.
Have you been in contact with Mark Newby Holly?
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I think he surrounds himself with people who fill his head with rubbish. Eg his recent claim that he has an alibi re the movement at the window. I believe this resulted in BC calling him out.
As my friend says 'We all have our poison"! JB's was cannabis. He had the means and wherewithal to grow for own use and sold it to mainly persons known for a small profit but interestingly although much was made about OCP in his police interviews and at trial not a word about the cannabis.
The fact remains that you choose to disbelieve JM on the basis of behaviours also exhibited by JB who you consider reliable. That does not compute.
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Has JB lied?
I believe JB stole from the family firm as June was withholding payments until he 'learned to live properly'. This was no doubt her objection to him having sexual relationships outside of marriage. He was 24 yoa and his income should not have been dependent on perfectly acceptable lifestyle choices.
He had a regular income, a free house, a free car - errm what payments were being withheld?
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Read this;
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Read that ages ago
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Bamber would have been tested for HIV etc in prison
According to the Terrance Higgins Trust, ‘Someone can only be charged with intentional transmission if it can be proved they maliciously and intentionally tried to give the other person HIV
https://www.tht.org.uk/hiv-and-sexual-health/living-well-hiv/legal-issues/how-law-works
I wonder what his results came back as?
Thankfully, drugs came out quite quickly which keeps HIV under control so it doesn’t turn into full blown AIDS. But it still isn’t something most people would risk — but it depends on the individual I guess.
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SC was reunited with her birth mother during May '85 when she was 27 yoa. I understand they communicated via letters for a number of years beforehand.
JB went to prison when he was 24 yoa so had little opportunity to get the ball rolling even if he had wanted to.
I doubt many adoptees wake up on their 18th birthday chomping at the bit to meet their birth parents.
Colin said in his book that Jeremy didn’t want to trace his biological parents’ — only Sheila was interested. He said that Sheila’s biological mother was stunningly beautiful like Sheila, in her 40s, glamorous — and a lovely person. I believe she was quite rich too...what a terrible tragedy!
She was reunited with Sheila, discovered she had two beautiful grandsons — then they were wickedly snatched away by that evil psychopath. He tried to contact his biological parents’ after he’d killed his adoptive parents’, but they wanted nothing to do with him. The father said “Jeremy Bamber is evil! He’s nothing to do with us. He was brought up by lovely people and we never want to hear from him, ever”.
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Is this something you've researched? If not how do you know? And if yes, why?
There's no evidence he was 'promiscuous' and/or had loads of flings with women.
JM saying this, that or the other doesn't make it so. She admitted to:
- cheque fraud
- acting as a lookout for JB when he burgled OCP
- selling JB's cannabis on campus
- taking cocaine in a hotel room with a female friend and two males
Hardly reliable.
I have indeed researched it, yes.
Without wishing to bore (my posts are long, I know), but when men suppress their gay leanings, often due to their family’s reaction — or their own misguided shame — they attempt to control their urges by sleeping with women and becoming promiscuous because the sex isn’t gratifying for them. There are, obviously, promiscuous heterosexual men, but Jeremy doesn’t fall into that camp because he’s admitted to secret gay relationships.
Some secretly gay men will be attracted to careers which are typically masculine, such as the police force, army, airforce, truck driving...manly things. That’s why people are often shocked when a seemingly happily married man with children who always seemed masculine declares to his wife he’s gay.
Back to Jeremy Bamber, I’ve read a huge amount of accounts where many different people have said he was EXTREMELY promiscuous. He was known to trawl the local bars and pick up one-nights stands, and he also cheated on his girlfriends, including Julie. I’m surprised you don’t know that?
I don’t know why you keep dragging up Julie’s ONE instance of cheque fraud, where she reported her cheque book stolen & went shopping with her friend. Jeremy knew ALL about it, and gleefully accepted the coffee machine she’d bought him with one of the cheques. She did admit to it, though....and she confessed to the bank and paid the money back.
When Jeremy Bamber burgled the caravan park, he’d obviously planned it when he knew there’s be almost £1000 there in cash. Julie thought he was just taking her for a walk along the sea wall, then sprung it in her and told her to watch out while he went inside. She didn’t know he was planning it, and went along with it because she was in love with him and was young and naive.
As for selling Jeremy’s cannabis on his behalf, he was the supplier — and he was using her to sell it. That doesn’t exonerate her, but she was hardly smuggling 20kilos of Heroin from Columbia...she was selling a few small packets of weed on Jeremy’s behalf. And by all accounts, it was rubbish — someone said you may as well have smoked a cabbage leaf.
If she took Cocaine on one occasion with friends, that isn’t a crime. She wasn’t selling it or buying it. Surely you must know that both weed and Cocaine is EVERYWHERE, so her one snort hardly makes her a drug baron.
You can paint Julie as black as you like — and I myself feel she was partly responsible for what happened to that poor family. Jeremy had told her repeatedly what he planned to do, and she had the power to prevent that. I certainly would have told Nevill and June — in front of Jeremy too. And/or I’d have gone to the police and told them what he’d been threatening to do; then told him too, and said if he did do anything they’d know it was him. I wouldn’t care if he dumped me as I wouldn’t have wanted to be near someone who was capable of even THINKING such evil things.
But all that aside, and the fact she didn’t try to prevent Jeremy murdering them, you can’t make her out be some drug-smuggling junkie and serial fraudster. She wasn’t, she made some stupid mistakes which she owned up to.
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I wonder what his results came back as?
Thankfully, drugs came out quite quickly which keeps HIV under control so it doesn’t turn into full blown AIDS. But it still isn’t something most people would risk — but it depends on the individual I guess.
I don’t suppose he’s told his supporters and very much doubt Aunt Agatha would have asked?
It looks like he made out to Daisy he was on his last legs unless I’ve read what she’s written wrong
On the point of Jeremy's health he is not a well man. He has several serious health problems and is in constant pain. He has also lost a lot of weight (intentionally or not I don't kinow). Whatever our differences have been I feel he should be released on compassionate grounds
But she thought he should be released on ‘compassionate grounds’
Sounds like his usual - more lies
In 6 years there’s been no mention of his alleged ‘serious health problems’
He’s most probably made it all up to make her feel sorry for him
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He had a regular income, a free house, a free car - errm what payments were being withheld?
A bonus from OCP which AE received but JB didn't. AE and JB had the same shareholding and the same role and responsibilities.
I seem to recall many of the female employee/agents at BBC were up in arms, rightly so, that they were being paid less than their male counterparts for carrying out the same work.
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A bonus from OCP which AE received but JB didn't. AE and JB had the same shareholding and the same role and responsibilities.
I seem to recall many of the female employee/agents at BBC were up in arms, rightly so, that they were being paid less than their male counterparts for carrying out the same work.
Perfectly possible that June didn't consider him to be pulling his weight.
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I have indeed researched it, yes.
Without wishing to bore (my posts are long, I know), but when men suppress their gay leanings, often due to their family’s reaction — or their own misguided shame — they attempt to control their urges by sleeping with women and becoming promiscuous because the sex isn’t gratifying for them. There are, obviously, promiscuous heterosexual men, but Jeremy doesn’t fall into that camp because he’s admitted to secret gay relationships.
Some secretly gay men will be attracted to careers which are typically masculine, such as the police force, army, airforce, truck driving...manly things. That’s why people are often shocked when a seemingly happily married man with children who always seemed masculine declares to his wife he’s gay.
Back to Jeremy Bamber, I’ve read a huge amount of accounts where many different people have said he was EXTREMELY promiscuous. He was known to trawl the local bars and pick up one-nights stands, and he also cheated on his girlfriends, including Julie. I’m surprised you don’t know that?
Did Bamber suffer from any ‘sexual dysfunction’ ?
Labels aside, could the reason why he was promiscuous be related to this in anyway?
Has this been explored before and has he ever discussed this with any of his supporters, fellow inmates or the ‘professional & compassionate’ prison officers or the numerous psychologists he’s allegedly meant to have seen over the years?
or
Did he just like to dominate and enjoy the power and control he felt over his conquests, regardless of whether they were male & female and was he ever faithful to any of them?
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Back to Jeremy Bamber, I’ve read a huge amount of accounts where many different people have said he was EXTREMELY promiscuous.
Wonder whether his psyche reports are reflective of this ?
Was Aunt Agatha or anyone else ever seen or spoken to by one of the prison psychologists to get their lowdown on Bamber?
What about his sexual partners prior to prison or have the psychiatrists and psychologists since relied on Bamber’s self reports?
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A bonus from OCP which AE received but JB didn't. AE and JB had the same shareholding and the same role and responsibilities.
I seem to recall many of the female employee/agents at BBC were up in arms, rightly so, that they were being paid less than their male counterparts for carrying out the same work.
Because Ann probably earned it.
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A bonus from OCP which AE received but JB didn't. AE and JB had the same shareholding and the same role and responsibilities.
I seem to recall many of the female employee/agents at BBC were up in arms, rightly so, that they were being paid less than their male counterparts for carrying out the same work.
Pamela and June both received dividends from Osea Road. Pamela gave half of hers to Ann Eaton and June used hers to support Sheila; paying her bills and buying her food, despite her disapproval of Sheila's lifestyle. According to Robert Boutflour she turned down Jeremy's request for more, however, because she thought he didn't live properly. [CAL page 80]
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Pamela and June both received dividends from Osea Road. Pamela gave half of hers to Ann Eaton and June used hers to support Sheila; paying her bills and buying her food, despite her disapproval of Sheila's lifestyle. According to Robert Boutflour she turned down Jeremy's request for more, however, because she thought he didn't live properly. [CAL page 80]
It's always been my understanding that Ann was a grafter. I guess she earned her bonus. Jeremy has been described as being skiver who put more effort into appearing to be doing something, than actually doing it.
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It's always been my understanding that Ann was a grafter. I guess she earned her bonus. Jeremy has been described as being skiver who put more effort into appearing to be doing something, than actually doing it.
Was it a 'bonus' or a necessary boost to the Eaton's income? Who described Jeremy as a 'skiver'? The one person who didn't work is Sheila; she couldn't even hold down a cleaning job.
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It's always been my understanding that Ann was a grafter. I guess she earned her bonus. Jeremy has been described as being skiver who put more effort into appearing to be doing something, than actually doing it.
Who described JB in such terms? Please provide a cite/source.
At one time JB was working at WHF And working at Sloppy Joe's.
According to chartered surveyor George Nicholls, NB told him he was pleased with hw JB was shaping up as a farmer. Why would he say this if JB was as you've stated above?
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Perfectly possible that June didn't consider him to be pulling his weight.
What evidence exists to suggest this?
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Jeremy had No gay relationships before his imprisonment.
During the period I knew him him, he did not fancy men, either as a bisexual or gay.
He told Julie that he’d had a gay relationship, Agatha.
Brett also said Jeremy had been in a gay relationship in New Zealand with one of his friends.
Other people spoke of how he kissed men passionately in nightclubs and openly flirted with men across a bar
Are you saying they’re all lying?
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He told Julie that he’d had a gay relationship, Agatha.
Brett also said Jeremy had been in a gay relationship in New Zealand with one of his friends.
Other people spoke of how he kissed men passionately in nightclubs and openly flirted with men across a bar
Are you saying they’re all lying?
Cits/sources please.
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More projections from her blog
“Away from almost everything else we have to keep in mind that we’re talking about the mid 1980s when understanding was comparatively close to non-existent and acceptance was even less. Within that, we can see just why Jeremy and Sheila’s parents did all they could to try and keep it in house. A family’s business is its business, after all, and within an extremely small community in which everyone’s affairs were the subject of the idle chit-chat, you would be livid at the idea of your daughter’s struggle with schizophrenia being reduced to the “Ooooh did you hear” of the day.
As a race and as a country we are, even in 2013, embarrassed and scornful of things we don’t understand. If it’s beyond your comprehension, just take the piss out of it – that’s the British way. And unfortunately that was the way in 1985, too. Jeremy himself detailed to me in some pain about the fact that his family were at times seen as the funny farm – so to speak – of their local community; those loopy Bambers and their crazy daughter. That’s just how things were.
Out of sheer embarrassment, that is unfortunately why back at Jeremy’s trial, those who stood to benefit from his conviction – in whatever manner – helped paint the picture that Sheila’s mood was of calmness and sound mind in the hours and on the days surrounding the murders. Why, outside of their own little community bubble would they want to share what they saw as the shame of having someone 'like that' living among them? For a lot of them it was all about keeping up appearances - to not lose face, and out of selfishness and greed for some of them too.
This woman, Poppy seems disturbed.
She talks utter nonsense. And as if the locals would tell Jeremy to his face that they called the family “The Funny Farm”...that’s something HE’D say.
That goes against all the views from villagers who held the Bambers’ in high esteem (one even alluded to them as like “royalty”!)
And no-one outside knew that Sheila or June had ever suffered breakdowns or MH problems, as the family didn’t discuss their private business with outsiders.
Jeremy Bamber certainly attracts the nuts!
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What evidence exists to suggest this?
It's highly unlikely that any of those who became 'stars' in this tragedy, thought to state and clarify all their thoughts against the time when every detail of their lives would be scrutinized. However, being the mother she appeared to be, I imagine June to have been more than aware of her children's shortcomings. It therefore remains "perfectly possible that June didn't consider him to be pulling his weight".
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Brett speaks and everybody now believes him. He ha slied in the past therefore he is an unreliable witness.
So has Jeremy
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Has JB lied?
I believe JB stole from the family firm as June was withholding payments until he 'learned to live properly'. This was no doubt her objection to him having sexual relationships outside of marriage. He was 24 yoa and his income should not have been dependent on perfectly acceptable lifestyle choices.
Jeremy said the reason he burgled and stole the money was to show them security wasn’t tight @)(++(*
Now YOU’RE saying he did it because June was withholding payments! What a ludicrous assumption — especially when it want true
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Who described JB in such terms? Please provide a cite/source.
At one time JB was working at WHF And working at Sloppy Joe's.
According to chartered surveyor George Nicholls, NB told him he was pleased with hw JB was shaping up as a farmer. Why would he say this if JB was as you've stated above?
According to someone who attended the farm once a year on business? I'd have thought those who saw him on a regular basis -and there were many- would have been better equipped to give an opinion. I CAN, if I was prepared to break confidences, say "Joe Bloggs, Uncle Tom Cobley et al" but you'll undoubtedly choose not to believe me. Not everything in life is written down -we don't anticipate disasters- but lack of written words doesn't mean 'stuff' hasn't happened. It just provides a security blanket for those who'd rather not know.
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I don’t suppose he’s told his supporters and very much doubt Aunt Agatha would have asked?
It looks like he made out to Daisy he was on his last legs unless I’ve read what she’s written wrong
But she thought he should be released on ‘compassionate grounds’
Sounds like his usual - more lies
In 6 years there’s been no mention of his alleged ‘serious health problems’
He’s most probably made it all up to make her feel sorry for him
Daisy is rather wealthy, so Jeremy being Jeremy, would have hinted he had a “serious” disease, possibly terminal, but wanted to keep it quiet as he didn’t want pity. She, having a soft heart, would have fought for his release (quietly), and told him she’d get a beautiful house for him to stay where he could live out his last days in comfort and beautiful surroundings...she’s deposit a large sum into a bank account for him so he could treat himself to all his favourite foods, drinks, clothes, home comforts...and travel first class to somewhere hot and sunny, say, Maldives? 8((()*/
He probably starved himself between visits, wore his baggiest clothes, rubbed some chalk on his face for extra pallor..then slowly dragged his legs as he entered the visiting room and shuffled up to her as he focussed on his dog who got knocked over 😢
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Did Bamber suffer from any ‘sexual dysfunction’ ?
Labels aside, could the reason why he was promiscuous be related to this in anyway?
Has this been explored before and has he ever discussed this with any of his supporters, fellow inmates or the ‘professional & compassionate’ prison officers or the numerous psychologists he’s allegedly meant to have seen over the years?
or
Did he just like to dominate and enjoy the power and control he felt over his conquests, regardless of whether they were male & female and was he ever faithful to any of them?
I read SF fell pregnant two or three times by him which resulted in miscarriages, but how true it is who knows?
I haven’t heard anything to suggest he suffered sexual dysfunction, but he didn’t seem fussy in as much as he had lots of one-night stands, and he couldn’t have been attracted to them all otherwise he’d have seen them again. I suspect he was fighting his demons, and when men need to have sex with someone they’re not attracted to they simply fantasise...
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Was it a 'bonus' or a necessary boost to the Eaton's income? Who described Jeremy as a 'skiver'? The one person who didn't work is Sheila; she couldn't even hold down a cleaning job.
His father, Nevill said Jeremy was LAZY.
And everyone knew it.
Sheila was unwell, hence why she found it difficult to work. But at least she TRIED. And she wasn’t too grand to think a part-time cleaning job was beneath her, where she was possibly cleaning places that were smaller and cheaper than her own home...
She was also aware she wasn’t fit enough to hold down a better job, not forgetting she had two young children to look after! She also knew it was only a stop-gap, and not permanent. I admire her for trying to work when she was feeling so tired and unwell — she wasn’t growing drugs or burgling the caravan site like Jeremy!
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His father, Nevill said Jeremy was LAZY.
And everyone knew it.
Sheila was unwell, hence why she found it difficult to work. But at least she TRIED. And she wasn’t too grand to think a part-time cleaning job was beneath her, where she was possibly cleaning places that were smaller and cheaper than her own home...
She was also aware she wasn’t fit enough to hold down a better job, not forgetting she had two young children to look after! She also knew it was only a stop-gap, and not permanent. I admire her for trying to work when she was feeling so tired and unwell — she wasn’t growing drugs or burgling the caravan site like Jeremy!
I don't know who gave that information about Nevill's opinion, do you? As far as I can tell Jeremy worked at various jobs, settling for working for his father following his trip abroad.
Sheila's first cleaning job was for two days a week in 1981 to give her some reliable income in between modelling jobs. Her employer found her inadequate as she needed to be 'directed' to carry out the work required. [CAL page 59]
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I don't know who gave that information about Nevill's opinion, do you? As far as I can tell Jeremy worked at various jobs, settling for working for his father following his trip abroad.
Sheila's first cleaning job was for two days a week in 1981 to give her some reliable income in between modelling jobs. Her employer found her inadequate as she needed to be 'directed' to carry out the work required. [CAL page 59]
"Inadequate" being your judgement. Her employer choose "rather dizzy".
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I don't know who gave that information about Nevill's opinion, do you? As far as I can tell Jeremy worked at various jobs, settling for working for his father following his trip abroad.
Sheila's first cleaning job was for two days a week in 1981 to give her some reliable income in between modelling jobs. Her employer found her inadequate as she needed to be 'directed' to carry out the work required. [CAL page 59]
I tend not to criticise SC because I think she suffered a lot of trauma very early on in her life when in June's care who herself was severely depressed to the extent she required in-patient psychiatric care and ECT. Have you seen Dr Tronick's still face experiment:
https://youtu.be/apzXGEbZht0
If you read CC's wit stat he tells how SC was unable to hold down any sort of job including her modelling work.
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I tend not to criticise SC because I think she suffered a lot of trauma very early on in her life when in June's care who herself was severely depressed to the extent she required in-patient psychiatric care and ECT. Have you seen Dr Tronick's still face experiment:
https://youtu.be/apzXGEbZht0
If you read CC's wit stat he tells how SC was unable to hold down any sort of job including her modelling work.
My intention wasn't to criticise, just to point out that Jeremy worked, unlike his sister.
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My intention wasn't to criticise, just to point out that Jeremy worked, unlike his sister.
The exquisite irony here is that the Bambers were actually paying for Jeremy to play at working. Do you really imagine he could have afforded, on the wages paid in pizza parlours/wine bars/Little Chefs, to run a house, pay rent, utilities, insurances, food, tax, insure and put petrol in his car, were it not that he was being heavily subsidized by his parents?
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I don't know who gave that information about Nevill's opinion, do you? As far as I can tell Jeremy worked at various jobs, settling for working for his father following his trip abroad.
Sheila's first cleaning job was for two days a week in 1981 to give her some reliable income in between modelling jobs. Her employer found her inadequate as she needed to be 'directed' to carry out the work required. [CAL page 59]
Well, Sheila had a privileged upbringing with nannies, housekeepers etc...so of course she’d have no idea how to work for people as a cleaner...it was alien to her. And as she was so beautiful I suppose June and Nevill never thought it necessary to teach her housekeeping....
What’s your job, G-Unit?
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My intention wasn't to criticise, just to point out that Jeremy worked, unlike his sister.
Sheila was a mother, G-Unit. Of twins. Of course she couldn’t work.
I don’t know you: maybe you have to work due to your circumstances, but most mothers of twins don’t usually work to put bread on the table.
It didn’t seem to bother Nevill or June who helped her financially, so why does it seem to irk you?
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I tend not to criticise SC because I think she suffered a lot of trauma very early on in her life when in June's care who herself was severely depressed to the extent she required in-patient psychiatric care and ECT. Have you seen Dr Tronick's still face experiment:
https://youtu.be/apzXGEbZht0
If you read CC's wit stat he tells how SC was unable to hold down any sort of job including her modelling work.
Jeremy grew up in the same surroundings with June and Nevill...but he seemed happy working at Sloppy Joe’s.
Yes, he subsided his income by thieving, secretly growing drugs and selling them, and taking cash gifts from Nevill, but he seemed content knocking up cocktails behind the bar...so how do you account for that?
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Well, Sheila had a privileged upbringing with nannies, housekeepers etc...so of course she’d have no idea how to work for people as a cleaner...it was alien to her. And as she was so beautiful I suppose June and Nevill never thought it necessary to teach her housekeeping....
What’s your job, G-Unit?
According to Ann Eaton in summer 1973 June took to dropping Sheila at her house for her to teach Sheila how to perform household jobs and how to cook. It didn't work. The following summer she left school and headed for London and Secretarial College.
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My intention wasn't to criticise, just to point out that Jeremy worked, unlike his sister.
Your post gave the opposite of your intention but unless you had forgotten, Sheila had mental health issues. Jeremy only settled to work for his father when his options had run out.
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According to Ann Eaton in summer 1973 June took to dropping Sheila at her house for her to teach Sheila how to perform household jobs and how to cook. It didn't work. The following summer she left school and headed for London and Secretarial College.
Sheila was just 16 in 1973.
I can’t think of anything more boring at that age to be driven to your older cousin’s — one who’s possibly domineering, fussy & particular — and being shown how to chop vegetables, iron linen, fold napkins and use a feather duster.
Sixteen-year-olds are interested in listen to music, practicing make-up, laughing with their friends, and reading about their pop idol...
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Sheila was just 16 in 1973.
I can’t think of anything more boring at that age to be driven to your older cousin’s — one who’s possibly domineering, fussy & particular — and being shown how to chop vegetables, iron linen, fold napkins and use a feather duster.
Sixteen-year-olds are interested in listen to music, practicing make-up, laughing with their friends, and reading about their pop idol...
Which just demonstrates how out of tune with the changing world June was.
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Which just demonstrates how out of tune with the changing world June was.
I agree with you on that one
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Which just demonstrates how out of tune with the changing world June was.
Mothers and daughters often come into conflict over what mothers perceive to be good for their girls, so what?
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Mothers and daughters often come into conflict over what mothers perceive to be good for their girls, so what?
Even so, not many mothers would call their daughter 'the Devil's child'.
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Even so, not many mothers would call their daughter 'the Devil's child'.
I’ve called my daughter that on several occasions (albeit in jest of course).
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I’ve called my daughter that on several occasions (albeit in jest of course).
June wasn't joking.
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I’ve called my daughter that on several occasions (albeit in jest of course).
But both you and your daughter were confident in knowing who her parentage. Try to imagine how she might have felt if, already feeling unworthy and bought up in a "fire and brimstone" household, she'd had that accusation levied at her. At the very least, it would have been destabilising, I think.
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June wasn't joking.
And your point is?
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But both you and your daughter were confident in knowing who her parentage. Try to imagine how she might have felt if, already feeling unworthy and bought up in a "fire and brimstone" household, she'd had that accusation levied at her. At the very least, it would have been destabilising, I think.
No doubt, but what has that got to do with the murders, or “The Real Jeremy Bamber”?
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No doubt, but what has that got to do with the murders, or “The Real Jeremy Bamber”?
Well it lends credence to the whole 'Sheila ran amok' angle, albeit tenuously. Add to that the farming out (no pun intended) to boarding school at a young age; there's grounds for the genesis of a grudge.
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Well it lends credence to the whole 'Sheila ran amok' angle, albeit tenuously. Add to that the farming out (no pun intended) to boarding school at a young age; there's grounds for the genesis of a grudge.
There are claims JB suffered at boarding school,just as much a genesis of a grudge there.
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There are claims JB suffered at boarding school,just as much a genesis of a grudge there.
Indeed. I'm not suggesting Sheila did it by the way, I'm concurring with the general assertion - I see some merit in the concept.
It's equally true of JB, agreed.
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But both you and your daughter were confident in knowing who her parentage. Try to imagine how she might have felt if, already feeling unworthy and bought up in a "fire and brimstone" household, she'd had that accusation levied at her. At the very least, it would have been destabilising, I think.
To quote Dr Ferguson, Sheila would come to hang her psychosis on those words. [Interview with CAL 2013]
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Well it lends credence to the whole 'Sheila ran amok' angle, albeit tenuously. Add to that the farming out (no pun intended) to boarding school at a young age; there's grounds for the genesis of a grudge.
It might, were it not for, I suspect, Sheila growing up with the feeling, impressed on her by an all powerful matriarchal figure in her life, of being bad and worthless, and as a result, helpless, probably manifesting itself in mental illness, whilst Jeremy, who hadn't been demoralized by such, may have grown up with a sense of entitlement and sought to revenge himself on those he saw as having tried to put him down, or withholding from him what he felt to be rightfully his.
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Which just demonstrates how out of tune with the changing world June was.
Interesting that June, herself, didn't teach Sheila domestic skills. I wonder why.
Do we know that Sheila was unhappy being taught by Ann? Possibly she preferred being with her older cousin to being with her mother.
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Well it lends credence to the whole 'Sheila ran amok' angle, albeit tenuously. Add to that the farming out (no pun intended) to boarding school at a young age; there's grounds for the genesis of a grudge.
The same conditions were also the case for Jeremy and he's the one who had to work on a farm he just wanted to sell.
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Interesting that June, herself, didn't teach Sheila domestic skills. I wonder why.
Do we know that Sheila was unhappy being taught by Ann? Possibly she preferred being with her older cousin to being with her mother.
With all respect to June, she wasn't exactly house proud.
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The same conditions were also the case for Jeremy and he's the one who had to work on a farm he just wanted to sell.
I've just stated that above. The general concept works for both.
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Due to the current activity levels on the board we need to maintain the following rule set out on the homepage:
* Posters are asked to keep to thread topics where possible
Going forward I will be removing all posts that are off topic.
Thanks.
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It amazes me how people read what I have posted and then make up a lie to try and discredit me.
Well said AA yes Simon Mckay was acutely embarrassed when he took a man's word who promised to fund the Danny Nightingale Appeal.
Where can we read about Simon Mckay being ‘acutely embarrassed’ over this Daisy?
He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.
He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.
I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
And why would Bamber say he ‘sacked’ Simon McKay & Mr McKay claim to still be working for him as you say?
What happened here Daisy
The crew abandoned ship several months ago when the short piece about Simon McKay representing Jeremy Bamber disappeared from the front page of the official site without any reason given - they all come to realise the truth in the end!
and why did the CT suddenly remove the short piece about Simon McKay from Bamber’s website?
Had Bamber sacked Simon McKay but not actually told him directly?
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A few years after Simon McKays involvement with Bambers case he wrote and published the following on the Justice Gap website run by Jon Robins
”John Worboys: ‘Let the victims to have their say”
“Hold the parole Board decision in Worboys up to light and permit the voiceless victims to have their say, writes Simon McKay.
Read article in full here https://www.thejusticegap.com/john-worboys-let-victims-say/
Prior to the above in October 2012 he wrote and published an article headed, Judicial mischief
”There is an unjustifiably little known text book called Miscarriages of Justice: a review of justice in error. Its editors were the esteemed Professor Clive Walker and (then) junior barrister Keir Starmer, now the Director of Public Prosecutions. A review of its pages ought to make uncomfortable reading for British judges since it includes references to various cases that were then considered on appeal to be safe convictions but which later, sometimes much later, resulted in those convictions being quashed.
The paradigm example is R v Mills and Poole where in 1997 the Court of Appeal recognised ‘a risk of injustice’ as a result of material non-disclosure but upheld the convictions. What followed was an appeal to the House of Lords, a reference to the Criminal Cases Review Commission, a partially successful judicial review, a reconsideration of the application for a reference, a reference and eventually, in 2003, a successful appeal.
A renaissance
There was a period from around the late 1980s and lasting for about two decades where the British criminal justice system seemed to enter a renaissance. This article is not the place to examine its causes. However I was struck by the characteristic eloquence of Geoffrey Robertson QC who (in a foreword to his biography of Sir William Garrow) lamented that in the 1970s ‘ferocious judges would intimidate counsel who defended aggressively by describing them as “loud speakers for a maladjusted set”, whilst those barristers who accepted briefs for bomb trials (were) described as “members of the alternative Bar”’. Perhaps this was a metaphorical flapping of a butterfly’s wings and a hurricane of sorts was coming.
But the renaissance that witnessed such unforgettable moments such as the release of the Birmingham Six, Guildford 4 and many other wrongly convicted individuals, it seems is like the passing of an emperor.
Last week the High Court rejected, on the papers at least, an application by Jeremy Bamber, convicted in 1986 of the murder of his entire family. The reasons included a rejection that the often cited authority of R v Criminal Cases Review Commission, ex parte Pearson did not create a two-staged approach to considering miscarriage of justice cases and in any event even if it did, the CCRC did not have to follow it. It was also critical of a throw away remark Mr Bamber made to a journalist several years ago that he may not have been showing all of his hand.
Mr Bamber relied on what appeared to be an unambiguous statement of the Court of Appeal in ex parte Pearson and which he says the CCRC did not apply where it said:
He has renewed his application for permission to be one of the first to successfully judicially review the Commission but, perhaps understandably, is not optimistic.
Criticisms of the CCRC (see HERE on the JusticeGap), particularly its failure to use its investigatory powers effectively, will continue. There is a very serious tension emerging between this failure and the recent decision in Nunn v Suffolk Constabulary which constrained the need for the police to make available exhibits and other evidence to defence lawyers for the purposes of conducting their own inquiries. The Administrative Court is a blunt instrument in terms of challenging the Commission’s decision-making leaving applicants little choice but to investigate cases with, following Nunn, one hand tied behind their backs.
It is difficult not to reflect on the case of Stefan Kiszko wrongly convicted for the murder of Lesley Molseed in 1975 and freed in 1993. He died the later same year, living less than half as many months after his release as he served in years for a crime he did not commit. His mother who had campaigned doggedly to prove her son’s innocence said on his death that there were certain people she could not forgive for the way they treated her son. There is no greater indictment of a system’s failings than this case and no more compelling case that legal challenges against the body created to refer cases back ought to be capable of effective review by the courts. It is, as Tennyson wrote, a case of ‘authority forgets a dying king’.
A natural ending to this brief article would be to look elsewhere for a system of justice that works better than ours. The successful appeal of Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher seemed a good recent example. It is rueful that it took her Italian lawyer to quote a quintessential Englishman, Sir Isaac Newton in his final submissions to the court saying, with the eloquence of an aged past, that ‘truth is ever to be found in simplicity and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things’. That was of course before a court sitting in the ancient city of L’Aquila found three scientists criminally culpable of failing to predict the unpredictable. The only hope is that somewhere, in some distant place, a butterfly gently flaps its wings.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/judicial-mischief/
A comment at the foot of the article reads:
Poppy Ann Miller says:
October 25, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Thanks to the CCRC and their cronies, Jeremy Bamber has been incarcerated for 27 years for a crime he could not possibly have committed. The CCRC would do well to refer to the definition of Occam’s razor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
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Prior to the above in October 2012 he wrote and published an article headed, Judicial mischief
https://www.thejusticegap.com/judicial-mischief/
A comment at the foot of the article reads:
Poppy Ann Miller says:
October 25, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Thanks to the CCRC and their cronies, Jeremy Bamber has been incarcerated for 27 years for a crime he could not possibly have committed. The CCRC would do well to refer to the definition of Occam’s razor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
April 2012
“Bamber's solicitor Simon McKay said he was considering applying for a judicial review.
He claimed the CCRC had "improperly" dismissed "eminent scientific opinion" relating to the gunshot wounds found on the bodies of some of the victims.
He said: "In my view, the commission have not applied the proper test for determining whether a case should be referred back to the Court of Appeal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-17851314
Déjà vu
https://www.thejusticegap.com/ben-geen-statisticians-back-former-nurses-in-last-chance-to-clear-name/
Wonder if Simon McKay has since come to recognise innocence fraud ?
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April 2012
“Bamber's solicitor Simon McKay said he was considering applying for a judicial review.
He claimed the CCRC had "improperly" dismissed "eminent scientific opinion" relating to the gunshot wounds found on the bodies of some of the victims.
He said: "In my view, the commission have not applied the proper test for determining whether a case should be referred back to the Court of Appeal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-17851314
Déjà vu
https://www.thejusticegap.com/ben-geen-statisticians-back-former-nurses-in-last-chance-to-clear-name/
Wonder if Simon McKay has since come to recognise innocence fraud ?
I think Simon McKay was fair, he put forward only arguments that would constitute new evidence, not a rehash of the old bollocks that has been parroted for what seems like centuries. Simon McKay refused to put forward much of what Bamber wanted him to - I believe that may be why they parted ways.
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I think Simon McKay was fair, he put forward only arguments that would constitute new evidence, not a rehash of the old bollocks that has been parroted for what seems like centuries. Simon McKay refused to put forward much of what Bamber wanted him to - I believe that may be why they parted ways.
Depends what angle you view it from - this wasn’t ‘fair’
Fresh from the disaster ITV documentary Mckay continues to use the press and media to promote pro Bamber propaganda. In his latest exercise he is basically harassing and threatening Julie (Mugford) Smerchanski with arrest and extradition. What the hell does Mckay think he is playing at? He is out to wreck Julie's life and career in the most distasteful and underhand manner. It was Julie's right not to cooperate with his spoof documentary.
You can read the Canadian article here.
http://t.co/DLad3AW4
It seems that McKay's approach to boost his own reputation try to free Bamber is to look at any aspect of the case and twist it in any possible way to get himself on the Legal Aid gravy train!
Now Nelly the spare barrister discloses even more accusations of police corruption, collusion and lies. We find that Julie was actually arrested and forced to lie about Bamber being a child murderer! I think the Oscar should go to Mckay for Best Work Of Fiction rather than Mugford for Best Actress!
A lot about this has come to light recently. It is an aspect of the case which is likely to form one of the major grounds of appeal if the case is referred to the Court of Appeal. In essence what the defence now are confident they can prove is that Julie Mugford did not go to the police voluntarily. She was in fact arrested and interviewed under caution at length. She was put under intense pressure, not just in connection with the cheque frauds, drug importation and supplying and burglary, but as an accessory to murder. She was faced with the real prospect of being charged with murder but was offered a way out in the form of total immunity from prosecution provided that she gave evidence against Jeremy. She was trapped. The rest is history.
The jury were presented with a false account of the circumstances surrounding Julie Mugford "coming forward".
Twist and Shout!
Attention: Simon McKay esq., McKay Law
Re: Jeremy Bamber case
Dear Mr. McKay,
I was very idsappointed to learn you have recently made comments in the Canadian press regarding Julie Smerchanski nee Mugford in connection with the Jeremy Bamber case.
You seemed to assume that there would be an appeal court hearing at which you would want to call her to give evidence. You must have know these comments were premature even if you did expect the CCRC to refer Bamber's case to the Court of Appeak.
The following comments attributed to you I found most disturbing:
"We're fairly certain we can issue a subpoena upon her and that extradition treaties would force her to testify".
Besides assuming a court case that was never likely to happen, you directly imply Julie would have to be forced to attend requiring a subpoena and extradition. Julie voluntarily attended the last 2002 Bamber appeal and you have absolutely no right to imply that Julie would have to be forced to attend your hoped for appeal.
In my opinion your sole purpose for making these comments was to damage Julie's reputation in her home town and you should be thoroughly ashamed of your behaviour. I trust now you have failed miserably at the CCRC you will leave Julie alone.
How would you like it if for instance I contacted certain people about your personal history and let them know you are working pro bono for Jeremy Bamber when you have two current IVA's in your name. I am sure your creditors who agreed to the IVA's would wonder why you are working for a proven child killer for nothing when you should be trying to pay back your debts.
There might also be a lot of interest in the fact you didn't disclose your current insolvency agreements when trying to obtain funding in the USA for your failed get rich quick scheme. Just as there might be a lot of interest in the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority) judgement against you; mishandling of clients funds wasn't it?
I think you have been led by the nose to the Canadian press by one Miss Jackie Preece and I strongly advise you not to be associated with this woman in any way, shape or form. Miss Preece not only stalks anyone who dare suggest that her idol Bamber is guilty, she spends hours researching their children and using private Facebook photos of their family's to try and hurt her victims. She uses the private information gained and photos in her nasty emails which she freely distributes.
She has also done the same with Anne Eaton and her daughter who was about 7 years old at the time of the murders. Miss Jackie Preece also researched the suicide death of the partner of a member of Bamber's Official Campaign Team and used this information on Twitter to again hurt her victim. I understand Bamber himself is aware of at least this last instance and is rightly furious with Miss Preece's behaviour.
If you doubt anything I have said please feel free to check with Neil who I understand worked closely with you on the resent failed CCRC submission. Neil knows chapter and verse about all Miss Preece's vile stalking activities.
I have no problem with you representing Bamber although I do question your motives. I do have a problem with your harassing of Julie for no other possible purpose than to cause her distress. That was way below the belt Mr. McKay!
I would suggest you have nothing more to do with Miss Preece and play by the rules of decency in future.
Yours truly,
Jennifer Terry
CC:
Jeremy Bamber at Full Sutton Prison by mail
Mark Williams-Thomas by email
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Wonder if Simon McKay has since come to recognise innocence fraud ?
In early 2013 Simon McKay was still speaking about the Bamber case
Cardiff Law School : Public lectures: Innocence Week. 1: The White House Farm Murders: the Case of Jeremy Bamber (on 25 Feb 6pm); 2 The Shieldfield Nursery Libel Trial (on 28 Feb 6pm) Open to all.
The third Cardiff Law School Innocence week will be held 25th - 28 February 2013.
All week students, staff and members of the public will be raising awareness of the problem of wrongful convictions while at the same time raising funds for South Wales Against Wrongful Conviction.
As part of the week, two lectures will be held at Cardiff Law School, These events are open to the public and further details can be found on their events page (linked below)
Lecture 1: The White House Farm Murders: the Case of Jeremy Bamber
The first of two two main public events which are free and open to the public will be on Monday 25th February at 6pm. Simon McKay solicitor for Jeremy Bamber will be talking about the case.
http://t.co/zt46O6gJ
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Jeremy had No gay relationships before his imprisonment.
During the period I knew him him, he did not fancy men, either as a bisexual or gay.
Do you believe this because he told you so?
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Do you believe this because he told you so?
Did Aunt Agatha ask JB if he was gay/bisexual?
Or did he volunteer that he was straight?
Seems an odd thing to volunteer, and indeed ask...
Few closeted gays will admit it, although he did admit it to Julie when she became suspicious and said he had had a gay relationship in the past, but wasn’t having gay sex whilst with her. Then bringing Brett into the picture, who’s openly gay, it builds a picture.
Whatever he gets up to in prison is of no interest to anyone, but as Jeremy admitted he’d once had a gay affair (and he also had an affair with Brett’s gay friend), he’s simply demonstrated that he finds men sexually attractive. What’s the problem in admitting that? Unless it to deceive...
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https://www.thejusticegap.com/judicial-mischief/
A comment at the foot of the article reads:
Poppy Ann Miller says:
October 25, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Thanks to the CCRC and their cronies, Jeremy Bamber has been incarcerated for 27 years for a crime he could not possibly have committed. The CCRC would do well to refer to the definition of Occam’s razor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
Did Bamber tell Poppy Ann Miller this?
‘By the 4th of September 1985 the reality of the relationship ending had become all too real for Julie when she discovered Jeremy talking on the phone to another woman called Virginia, with whom he had planned to start a relationship with.
(Above excerpt from Poppy Ann Miller’s blogspot ‘Read my lips’)
Bamber had started a relationship with Virginia’s sister Anji - when did he plan to start one with Virginia?
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Did Bamber tell Poppy Ann Miller this?
‘By the 4th of September 1985 the reality of the relationship ending had become all too real for Julie when she discovered Jeremy talking on the phone to another woman called Virginia, with whom he had planned to start a relationship with.
(Above excerpt from Poppy Ann Miller’s blogspot ‘Read my lips’)
Bamber had started a relationship with Virginia’s sister Anji - when did he plan to start one with Virginia?
Who did Bamber tell this to?
“To make matters worse, one of Jeremy’s old flames - and there had been a few - made a chance reappearance. Virginia Greaves hadn’t seen Jeremy for over a year and the two reacquainted themselves in Jeremy’s bed. For Julie Mugford’s troubled heart and even more troubled mind it was the last straw.
Jeremy had arranged to visit Julie in London the following morning. Instead, he called her with an excuse and said he’d been held up. He had lunch with Virginia and phoned Julie at 3 p.m. with another excuse. Julie was seething by the time Jeremy finally arrived at Julie’s flat just after 8 p.m.
http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-part-8.html
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Does anyone know why Bamber allegedly lost his enhanced prisoner status end of 2013?
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Does anyone know why Bamber allegedly lost his enhanced prisoner status end of 2013?
According to CAL it was temporary (although some privileges were never reinstated) and as a result of the introduction of reforms (1st November 2013) which replaced reasonable behaviour being enough to earn privileges being replaced with the expectation that privileges had to be earned by prisoners working actively towards their own rehabilitation.
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Jeremy had No gay relationships before his imprisonment.
He did
https://linktr.ee/WHFMurders?fbclid=IwAR2T5n6u8_fh2xd_uzRe8kJpTj6XTl_yLgzBJaw52-lPWWBc4SLiD0PehPw
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Speaking from his prison cell in Wakefield he said:
“It is the ultimate alibi that I was in the company of dozens of police officers when it was clear that a person or persons were alive in the house who I am convicted of murdering."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14325252/jeremy-bamber-hope-new-evidence-appeal/
What time does Bamber say shots were fired & why didn’t he or anyone else hear them or say anything about them at the time ? *&^^&