Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Alfred R Jones on October 01, 2014, 11:30:54 PM
Title: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 01, 2014, 11:30:54 PM
Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Threats to murder and torture Kate and Gerry McCann, posted by users convinced they are responsible for disappearance of daughter Madeleine, could lead to prosecutions
Internet trolls who aim abuse, including death threats, at the family of missing girl Madeleine McCann could be prosecuted as part of a new police investigation. The Metropolitan Police has been passed an 80-page dossier of hundreds of tweets, Facebook posts and messages on online forums accusing Kate and Gerry McCann of being involved in their daughter’s disappearance in Portugal in 2007, and telling them they should “burn in hell”. Trolls active in recent years could now be brought to justice, with officers in talks with the Crown Prosecution Service over what action can be taken over the dossier, which was also passed to Sky News. The evidence was compiled by members of the public, appalled at the campaign of abuse aimed at the McCann’s by the largely anonymous trolls, who are convinced of the McCanns’ guilt despite no supporting evidence. Posts charted in the dossier include suggestions that the McCanns should be tortured and killed, reports of recent sightings of the couple, and manipulated images of the couple, showing them behind bars or surrounded by piles of cash. Other messages are directed at Madeleine’s younger siblings, nine-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. One Twitter troll, whose username is ‘Sweepyface’ and has posted dozens of anti-McCann messages using the #mccann hashtag said that she was “entitled” to attack the couple when confronted by Sky News.
Authors of the dossier are calling on prosecutors to take action against the posters under the Malicious Communications Act 2003, which bans online messages containing threats of violence or that could cause stress or alarm to their targets. Among the messages identified in the dossier is an exchange on a message board which reads: “These 2 should burn in hell”; “I will supply the petrol”; “I’ll supply the lighter – happily”. In one of her tweets, “Sweepyface” called for the McCanns to suffer “for the rest of their miserable lives”. Other trolls claimed to live near the McCanns in Leicestershire, and detail supposed sightings of the family, in the gym or out shopping.
Six Twitter accounts have been set up to abuse the McCanns, the dossier says, with eight “persistent and prolific” anti-McCann activists identified. Dozens of others are said to have participated in the abuse. Other tactics include attempts complain about the McCanns through Freedom of Information requests, the bombardment of the BBC Crimewatch show message board and Facebook pages. Anthony Summers, the author of a recent book that argues the McCanns are innocent, has also been targeted. The campaigner spearheading the appeal, who has asked to remain anonymous, told Sky News that they feared that trolls would one day translate their threats into actions. They said: “We know that this is still continuing, that it's escalating at an alarming rate, and becoming bolder and a lot of what they're posting is becoming much more sinister.”
Jim Gamble, a former police officer and online security expert, said: “I think the time has come for the hard-core few in the midst of this group to be investigated.”
The Met confirmed the investigation in a letter sent to the authors of the dossier.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 02, 2014, 01:28:23 AM
It has been a long time coming ... but at long last the police seem to be doing something about the threats and abuse suffered day and daily by the Drs McCann.
It has been a long time coming ... but at long last the police seem to be doing something about the threats and abuse suffered day and daily by the Drs McCann.
It will be interesting to see who, if anyone, is conspicuous by their absence on here in the coming days.
If 'sweepyface' thinks she is 'entitled' ... she sure ain't entitled to be driven off without putting her seatbelt on ... think that may be the least of her worries now she is getting her 15mins of fame on Sky News. 8()-000(
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Admin on October 02, 2014, 01:50:07 AM
So the police and CPS are not looking at the McCanns...but the online cowards who post vile accusations and threats against them...good..TIC TOK
Police are probing a dossier of vile tweets targeting the parents of Madeleine McCann.
Kate and Gerry McCann have been subjected to disgusting attacks by trolls, some of whom have suggested the couple be tortured of killed.
The dossier, which includes 80 tweets, Facebook posts and forum messages, was handed to the Metropolitan Police by members of the public who feared for the McCann's safety.
One message board comment reportedly said: "These 2 [the McCanns] should burn in hell." 8((()*/
Sky News said other posts in the dossier included:"I hope that the McCanns are living in total misery" and "I want to see them smashed up the back of a bus or trampled by horses". 8((()*/
Some messages were said to have been directed at Madeleine's younger siblings, now aged nine.
The posts were gathered by people who are concerned about the abuse.
One campaigner, who did not wish to be named, told Sky News: "We're very worried that it's only going to take somebody to act out of some of these discussions, some of the threats that have been made, and we couldn't live with ourselves if that happened and we had done nothing." @)(++(*
The material is being assessed by officers who are liaising with prosecutors and the missing girl's family.
A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "We can confirm we received a letter and documentation on September 9 which was passed to officers from Operation Grange. They are assessing its contents and consulting with the CPS and the McCann family."
Operation Grange is the name for the Metropolitan Police's involvement in the search for Madeleine.
She went missing in Portugal when aged three in May 2007.
So-called trolling is a mounting problem for the authorities. Last year Scotland Yard said around 1,500 additional crimes linked to internet abuse were being reported to the force each year.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-vile-4363206#ixzz3Ey4PbGek Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2014, 07:54:22 AM
Like others posting here, I have not seen any examples of the type you claim on social media or anywhere else.
You can't just come on and make unsubstantiated claims ... you will need to post examples ... expletives can be cut out.
Read my previous comment.
....and I have posted some before on here and they were removed.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 02, 2014, 10:43:50 AM
This is not Twitter or FaceBook. As far as I am aware there have been no threats on this Forum. And neither the Poster or The Threat would have survived for very long if there had been.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 02, 2014, 10:50:08 AM
This kind of behaviour from which ever side it originates, is inexcusable.
.............and those who deny it occurs as well from a few mccann supporters, are digging their heads in the sand.
You appear to have completely missed the point Stephen. The subject matter is the investigation into the on-line vicious hate campaign currently being conducted against the McCanns by some 'doubters'.
If you can supply any evidence of sustained hate campaigns of the same proportions against other individuals in this case - i.e. including death threats, urging the use of torture - and involving the victims' children in those campaigns - etc etc. - which are presently being conducted by 'supporters' - then I would be interested to see it.
IMO you are trying to make comparisons where there are none to be made.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 02, 2014, 10:57:45 AM
You appear to have completely missed the point Stephen. The subject matter is the investigation into the on-line vicious hate campaign currently being conducted against the McCanns by some 'doubters'.
If you can supply any evidence of sustained hate campaigns of the same proportions against other individuals in this case - i.e. including death threats, urging the use of torture - and involving the victims' children in those campaigns - etc etc. - which are presently being conducted by 'supporters' - then I would be interested to see it.
IMO you are trying to make comparisons where there are none to be made.
Stephen imo is trying to defend the indefensible and it is reflecting badly on him.
I think the amount of time it has taken for the campaign of abuse directed at the McCann family and anyone associated with them is a blot on British justice because the authorities have allowed it to go on for so long.
It is outrageous that the police have not already taken action, as they have done on the abuse directed at parents of other missing or murdered children, and nipped this in the bud a long time ago.
Organised hate campaigns lasting for over seven years are an affront to all that is decent.
I was particularly distressed that no action was taken against those who considered it fair game to target the twins during the libel trial by posting details of their journeys to school etc; or on-line publishing of photographs which identified the twins taken during a private visit to the Commonwealth Games.
These children are nine years old for goodness sake!
Lines have been crossed as far as this family are concerned and police action is long overdue.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2014, 11:18:45 AM
A good post by Benice , then followed by this fabulous post. Well done both of you. My thoughts exactly. Why hasn't this been done before.
Stephen imo is trying to defend the indefensible and it is reflecting badly on him.
I think the amount of time it has taken for the campaign of abuse directed at the McCann family and anyone associated with them is a blot on British justice because the authorities have allowed it to go on for so long.
It is outrageous that the police have not already taken action, as they have done on the abuse directed at parents of other missing or murdered parents, and nipped this in the bud a long time ago.
Organised hate campaigns lasting for over seven years are an affront to all that is decent.
I was particularly distressed that no action was taken against those who considered it fair game to target the twins during the libel trial by posting details of their journeys to school etc; or on-line publishing of photographs which identified the twins taken during a private visit to the Commonwealth Games.
These children are nine years old for goodness sake!
Lines have been crossed as far as this family are concerned and police action is long overdue.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 02, 2014, 11:20:31 AM
So what has happened is a few of the usual suspects on Twitter ( individuals who have themselves contacted sceptics workplaces, posted pictures of sceptics children etc online ) have screen capped some rather abusive tweets and passed them on to SY. And this is newsworthy ?
If there was physical threats against the McCanns or the twins they should have been reported immediately not left until there was a dossier-full to pass on.
There is a reason for this story and I'm sure we'll see what it is in the fullness of time.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: xtina on October 02, 2014, 11:22:30 AM
So what has happened is a few of the usual suspects on Twitter ( individuals who have themselves contacted sceptics workplaces, posted pictures of sceptics children etc online ) have screen capped some rather abusive tweets and passed them on to SY. And this is newsworthy ?
If there was physical threats against the McCanns or the twins they should have been reported immediately not left until there was a dossier-full to pass on.
There is a reason for this story and I'm sure we'll see what it is in the fullness of time.
8@??)( 8((()*/
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2014, 11:31:20 AM
I am annoyed with myself that I haven't done anything pro active about the despicable posts that we all have seen.
Personally, I hope that anyone threatening ANYONE is prosecuted and receives appropriate punishment.
And anyone telling lies, twisting facts and spreading myths and malicious propaganda gets a severe warning from the Police. If they repeat the behaviour after that, then they should be prosecuted.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 02, 2014, 11:47:59 AM
So what has happened is a few of the usual suspects on Twitter ( individuals who have themselves contacted sceptics workplaces, posted pictures of sceptics children etc online ) have screen capped some rather abusive tweets and passed them on to SY. And this is newsworthy ?
If there was physical threats against the McCanns or the twins they should have been reported immediately not left until there was a dossier-full to pass on.
There is a reason for this story and I'm sure we'll see what it is in the fullness of time.
Gosh you are so cynical Faithlilly. According to the Independent the dossier was handed to The Yard on September 9th (it doesn't mention the year though!). So why wait to publicise it now one might ask. "A spokesperson for Scotland Yard said: “We can confirm we received a letter and documentation on 9 September" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mccann-family-subjected-to-internet-trolling-over-madeleines-disappearance-9768858.html
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2014, 11:51:12 AM
Gosh you are so cynical Faithlilly. According to the Independent the dossier was handed to The Yard on September 9th (it doesn't mention the year though!). So why wait to publicise it now one might ask. "A spokesperson for Scotland Yard said: “We can confirm we received a letter and documentation on 9 September" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mccann-family-subjected-to-internet-trolling-over-madeleines-disappearance-9768858.html
They have been gathering disgusting posts, I expect. Before they are whooshed by frightened punters.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: DCI on October 02, 2014, 11:54:12 AM
I am annoyed with myself that I haven't done anything pro active about the despicable posts that we all have seen.
Personally, I hope that anyone threatening ANYONE is prosecuted and receives appropriate punishment.
And anyone telling lies, twisting facts and spreading myths and malicious propaganda gets a severe warning from the Police. If they repeat the behaviour after that, then they should be prosecuted.
I'm pleased to say I did do something Sadie, and have been for Seven years. I hope the Facebook trolls get the same treatment as the Twitter trolls.
Video of troll, she hopes she hasn't done anything illegal. 8()-000(
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Admin on October 02, 2014, 12:20:16 PM
We pride ourselves here that our members for the most part can have mature discussions about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann without resorting to the type of abuse seen on other sites including facebook and twitter.
A warning was issued yesterday to members in respect of this very subject, I suggest it is heeded.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 02, 2014, 12:50:08 PM
There is no proof even now to support one theory over another.
SY have said the McCanns are not suspects.
So, SY have some proof they were in no way involved in Madeleine's disappearance.
All they need to do is...... tell us what it is...then the McCanns can live in peace.
Until then, changes in witness testimony, the Smith's sighting (beige trousers strewn across the bed, Kate not telling the truth about pyjama sleeves), not phoning the police, blaming Portuguese paedophile gangs, the bedroom door which kept moving, not returning for a reconstruction, amongst other things, all point toward them being not particularly innocent.
It's their own fault, & SY's for that matter, if they get trolled.
Sympathy Nil.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2014, 12:51:10 PM
Well done DCI. 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)( Wish I had been part of it
Excellent article with videos, http://news.sky.com/story/1345871/mccanns-targeted-by-venomous-internet-trolls
Thanks DCI
Full interview from Sky news
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 02, 2014, 01:11:55 PM
Sky News are noticeably reluctant to report why the McCanns are getting trolled, other than leaving the children alone.
Fancy that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Admin on October 02, 2014, 01:26:27 PM
It was correctly pointed out on another thread (posts since incorporated here) that there have been instances of abuse from both sides. I fear this is a much wider problem which is not unique to the McCanns. The government has summarily failed to tackle this problem and as we saw on a Channel 4 documentary last night, it is being left to private individuals (vigilantes) to police the internet for abusers.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 02, 2014, 01:28:35 PM
It's only cyberspace, people could always just hit the off switch & go out into the real world, if they don't like what others have to say.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on October 02, 2014, 01:31:37 PM
It's only cyberspace, people could always just hit the off switch & go out into the real world, if they don't like what others have to say.
Not if there are leaflets of ill-researched venom distributed in your village when your children are about to start school, photos taken of your home at night, threats to kidnap your twins, torture you as parents...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 02, 2014, 01:46:18 PM
Not if there are leaflets of ill-researched venom distributed in your village when your children are about to start school, photos taken of your home at night, threats to kidnap your twins, torture you as parents...
It's their own fault.
I wonder how much hate mail Kerry Needham recieves.
None, I'd imagine, because she doesn't have the spectre of unanswered questions hanging over her.
[ edited ]
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 02, 2014, 01:51:04 PM
The internet abuse from mccann supporting trolls exists.
They are a matter of RECORD.
Now think exactly what that means.
[edited]
There is a fundamental problem with you attempt to justify the abuse, Stephen.
The vast majority of "doubters" are keyboard warriors, hiding behind internet names. Therefore any abuse or death threats are directed towards an anoymous username. As far as I am aware, making threats towards a username is not illegal.
The problem is that these people have been making threats towards the McCanns and their children - specific individuals. Unacceptable and they deserve to be identified and dealt with. Do you agree?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 01:58:24 PM
There is a fundamental problem with you attempt to justify the abuse, Stephen.
The vast majority of "doubters" are keyboard warriors, hiding behind internet names. Therefore any abuse or death threats are directed towards an anoymous username. As far as I am aware, making threats towards a username is not illegal.
The problem is that these people have been making threats towards the McCanns and their children - specific individuals. Unacceptable and they deserve to be identified and dealt with. Do you agree?
Perhaps you should take your time and read what I post.
I don't care whether the threats originate from ' pro's or [ censored word] '.
Threats are unacceptable and need to be dealt with.
I have never said anything else in that regard.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 02, 2014, 02:01:06 PM
We pride ourselves here that our members for the most part can have mature discussions about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann without resorting to the type of abuse seen on other sites including facebook and twitter.
A warning was issued yesterday to members in respect of this very subject, I suggest it is heeded.
Right on. And before we knew that this was coming down. This type of abuse has never been tolerated on this Forum.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 02:17:35 PM
As a footnote to what has happened, has it been ever referred to on Sky, the B.B.C., etc., that Amaral claimed he had received death threats in Portugal from various people, at a trial for libel against Correia ?
Again to reiterate, threats of any kind are completely and irrevocably unacceptable from whatever source.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 02, 2014, 02:19:20 PM
Author Anthony Summers, whose book Looking for Madeleine was published last month, said: "There is a campaign of hatred against the parents.
"It is venomous and vitriolic, most of it done by cowards. We are taken aback by the extent of the sheer evil behind it all."
Well said, Mr Summers, who has himself together with his wife, been on the receiving end of a month of venomous and vitriolic vilification. Imagine what 7 years of it must do to a person?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 02:26:31 PM
Author Anthony Summers, whose book Looking for Madeleine was published last month, said: "There is a campaign of hatred against the parents.
"It is venomous and vitriolic, most of it done by cowards. We are taken aback by the extent of the sheer evil behind it all."
Well said, Mr Summers, who has himself together with his wife, been on the receiving end of a month of venomous and vitriolic vilification. Imagine what 7 years of it must do to a person?
............and the hate campaign towards Amaral by some mccann supporters ?
Does that get a look in ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 02, 2014, 02:31:44 PM
It is sometimes why you don't say that matters, Stephen.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2014, 02:32:00 PM
............and the hate campaign towards Amaral by some mccann supporters ?
Does that get a look in ?
you keep making claims but can't back them up...we are talking about threats to kill...not calling someone a liar.....
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 02, 2014, 02:39:24 PM
Does anyone seriously think that Amaral or Tony Bennett or Pat Brown or Joana Morais or any high profile "sceptic" has had to put up with the sheer torrent of hatred and abuse suffered by the McCanns for the last seven years? Are there FB pages with 30,000 members stuffed full of photoshopped images of any of these characters? Do they get followed into shops by stalkers? Are their children's pictures plastered all over the net and pored over by god knows who? Do they have people threatening to visit their homes, their kids schools? Have they been the subject of a continual stream of violent threat and intimidation? Are they accused on a daily basis of the most serious and offensive crimes imaginable? If so, then let's be seeing the dossier on abusive McCann supporters. Bring it on!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 02, 2014, 02:42:55 PM
Please direct us to the hate campaign against Amaral. Let's see the Facebook page, the #Amaral tweets of hate, the forums dedicated to forensically examining every aspect of the man, his utterances, his book, his kids, his crimes. Lets have the links!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2014, 02:47:05 PM
Amaral is a convicted liar...do you want to take a screenshot Stephen and send it to the Met...better still...take it in yourself
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 02:49:48 PM
I wonder how much hate mail Kerry Needham recieves.
None, I'd imagine, because she doesn't have the spectre of unanswered questions hanging over her.
In her book Kerry Needham details instances which caused her distress ... Ben vanished before the internet was available to be misused in wicked campaigns such as that suffered by the Drs McCann; otherwise it is my opinion it is probable she would have recieved similar treatment.
A journalist detailed some of it as follows when Kerry's book was released ... unfortunately I have lost the link ...
"That laughter, a tribute to their survival, is hard won.
Kerry and Stephen were on a bus in Sheffield three years after Ben vanished. They laughed at some joke.
A stranger approached them saying she was shocked that Kerry could laugh when her son was missing.
She hopes her book will set the record straight: But when I have heard accusations against them, I have checked them out.
I was told by a woman on Kos that they sold Ben; they neglected him; Kerry was an unfit mother; they lived like hippies and Gypsies; they pretended to be poor but had a lot of money and two houses.
Had there been any evidence for these rumours and I had ignored it, my affection for them would have been seen as compromising my integrity.
The family were at first prime suspects and interrogated for hours by the police in Kos.
In 1996, the police showed me the Needham file. There was no evidence lending credibility to the gossip, although there was a statement made against Kerry by someone she thought of as a friend, saying she had been with him the night Ben vanished.
I asked her about it.
She was with her family searching all night – she had alibis proving what he said was a lie. Why he did that remains a mystery.
Three years ago I was writing about the family for Granta magazine. A British journalist told me he believed Stephen had accidentally killed Ben on his motorbike that day, and Chris had hidden his body. I challenged Chris. She asked me with bitter humour if I could see her doing that and lying for 19 years to her daughter, her ... "
LINK ADDED http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/28/ben-needham-kerry-needham-interview
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 02, 2014, 03:02:17 PM
In her book Kerry Needham details instances which caused her distress ... Ben vanished before the internet was available to be misused in wicked campaigns such as that suffered by the Drs McCann; otherwise it is my opinion it is probable she would have recieved similar treatment.
A journalist detailed some of it as follows when Kerry's book was released ... unfortunately I have lost the link ...
"That laughter, a tribute to their survival, is hard won.
Kerry and Stephen were on a bus in Sheffield three years after Ben vanished. They laughed at some joke.
A stranger approached them saying she was shocked that Kerry could laugh when her son was missing.
She hopes her book will set the record straight: But when I have heard accusations against them, I have checked them out.
I was told by a woman on Kos that they sold Ben; they neglected him; Kerry was an unfit mother; they lived like hippies and Gypsies; they pretended to be poor but had a lot of money and two houses.
Had there been any evidence for these rumours and I had ignored it, my affection for them would have been seen as compromising my integrity.
The family were at first prime suspects and interrogated for hours by the police in Kos.
In 1996, the police showed me the Needham file. There was no evidence lending credibility to the gossip, although there was a statement made against Kerry by someone she thought of as a friend, saying she had been with him the night Ben vanished.
I asked her about it.
She was with her family searching all night – she had alibis proving what he said was a lie. Why he did that remains a mystery.
Three years ago I was writing about the family for Granta magazine. A British journalist told me he believed Stephen had accidentally killed Ben on his motorbike that day, and Chris had hidden his body. I challenged Chris. She asked me with bitter humour if I could see her doing that and lying for 19 years to her daughter, her ... "
The parents of the Soham victims also received hate mail IIRC. Theres nowt so queer as folk.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 03:06:02 PM
Does anyone seriously think that Amaral or Tony Bennett or Pat Brown or Joana Morais or any high profile "sceptic" has had to put up with the sheer torrent of hatred and abuse suffered by the McCanns for the last seven years? Are there FB pages with 30,000 members stuffed full of photoshopped images of any of these characters? Do they get followed into shops by stalkers? Are their children's pictures plastered all over the net and pored over by god knows who? Do they have people threatening to visit their homes, their kids schools? Have they been the subject of a continual stream of violent threat and intimidation? Are they accused on a daily basis of the most serious and offensive crimes imaginable? If so, then let's be seeing the dossier on abusive McCann supporters. Bring it on!
Have you read the comment by Admin. ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2014, 03:09:07 PM
As a footnote to what has happened, has it been ever referred to on Sky, the B.B.C., etc., that Amaral claimed he had received death threats in Portugal from various people, at a trial for libel against Correia ?
Again to reiterate, threats of any kind are completely and irrevocably unacceptable from whatever source.
Marcos Aragao Correia told me himself that he received death threats.
Are you sure that Amaral got that the right way around?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 02, 2014, 03:11:08 PM
In her book Kerry Needham details instances which caused her distress ... Ben vanished before the internet was available to be misused in wicked campaigns such as that suffered by the Drs McCann; otherwise it is my opinion it is probable she would have recieved similar treatment.
A journalist detailed some of it as follows when Kerry's book was released ... unfortunately I have lost the link ...
"That laughter, a tribute to their survival, is hard won.
Kerry and Stephen were on a bus in Sheffield three years after Ben vanished. They laughed at some joke.
A stranger approached them saying she was shocked that Kerry could laugh when her son was missing.
She hopes her book will set the record straight: But when I have heard accusations against them, I have checked them out.
I was told by a woman on Kos that they sold Ben; they neglected him; Kerry was an unfit mother; they lived like hippies and Gypsies; they pretended to be poor but had a lot of money and two houses.
Had there been any evidence for these rumours and I had ignored it, my affection for them would have been seen as compromising my integrity.
The family were at first prime suspects and interrogated for hours by the police in Kos.
In 1996, the police showed me the Needham file. There was no evidence lending credibility to the gossip, although there was a statement made against Kerry by someone she thought of as a friend, saying she had been with him the night Ben vanished.
I asked her about it.
She was with her family searching all night – she had alibis proving what he said was a lie. Why he did that remains a mystery.
Three years ago I was writing about the family for Granta magazine. A British journalist told me he believed Stephen had accidentally killed Ben on his motorbike that day, and Chris had hidden his body. I challenged Chris. She asked me with bitter humour if I could see her doing that and lying for 19 years to her daughter, her ... "
LINK ADDED http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/28/ben-needham-kerry-needham-interview
Ben vanished before the internet was available to be misused in wicked campaigns such as that suffered by the Drs McCann; otherwise it is my opinion it is probable she would have recieved similar treatment.
So.....the internet is here now....... & Ben is still missing....
Still no one trolls her do they (I)?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Victoria on October 02, 2014, 03:11:12 PM
Haven't bothered reading this forum for a while, but just popped in to say waht brilliant news all this is!
The look on that silly woman's face when Brunt confronted her on Sky News was priceless. Hopefully the worst of the idiots will be rounded up and prosecuted now. About time. I suspect many of them are trembling with fear right now.
It isn't just Facebook and Twitter users either, but also includes Amazon posters, apparently.
Great stuff! 8@??)(
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 03:15:13 PM
From Admin.
'It was correctly pointed out on another thread (posts since incorporated here) that there have been instances of abuse from both sides. I fear this is a much wider problem which is not unique to the McCanns. The government has summarily failed to tackle this problem and as we saw on a Channel 4 documentary last night, it is being left to private individuals (vigilantes) to police the internet for abusers.'
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 02, 2014, 03:30:29 PM
Haven't bothered reading this forum for a while, but just popped in to say waht brilliant news all this is!
The look on that silly woman's face when Brunt confronted her on Sky News was priceless. Hopefully the worst of the idiots will be rounded up and prosecuted now. About time. I suspect many of them are trembling with fear right now.
It isn't just Facebook and Twitter users either, but also includes Amazon posters, apparently.
Great stuff! 8@??)(
Amazon should clamp down hard on that handful of hideous h8ers on the Kate McCann page now, if they have a shred of common decency (which is doubtful tbh).
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on October 02, 2014, 03:34:52 PM
I fear the police have neither the time nor the resources to do what is necessary. I happened to see the Ch4 documentary mentioned and it was very clear that the police would rather warn off those exposing the abuse than go after the perpetrators. The bottom line is the former can be dealt with by a letter while the latter requires real resources and manpower.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 02, 2014, 03:36:02 PM
I fear the police have neither the time nor the resources to do what is necessary. I happened to see the Ch4 documentary mentioned and it was very clear that the police would rather warn off those exposing the abuse than go after the perpetrators.
What is necessary IYO?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 03:37:01 PM
Amazon should clamp down hard on that handful of hideous h8ers on the Kate McCann page now, if they have a shred of common decency (which is doubtful tbh).
The 'hideous' nature of some posters is clearly palpable in you Alfred.
It is present in many of your posts.
and don't pretend mccann supporters exhibit hate towards those who don't believe the mccanns.
You seem unable to understand people can't agree wityh you, and that is very, very sad.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 03:37:51 PM
Who else wrote books and received money from them ?
Quite a few. Amaral is the only one, as far as I know, who is directly libellous towards the McCanns.
Do you think it is acceptable for an ex policemen to abuse his position as use a book to carry on a case he has patently failed to prosecute? Who needs due process when you can act as judge and jury.
To save you the trouble of saying it - Kate McCann also wrote a book - giving her story. Her book, her story, and the money from it went into the fund. Not to her.
And then the Summers and Swann book. I do actually agree with you on this one - another example of authors cashing in on a high profile case.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 03:49:41 PM
Ben vanished before the internet was available to be misused in wicked campaigns such as that suffered by the Drs McCann; otherwise it is my opinion it is probable she would have recieved similar treatment.
So.....the internet is here now....... & Ben is still missing....
Still no one trolls her do they (I)?
The McCanns get trolled because their story doesn't ring true.
Don't be so silly ... the Needham family received unwarranted comment and attention fuelled by exactly the same suspicions that have made the McCann family 'fair game' to some.
Please try to understand ... the fault does not lie with the people who are the subject of the abuse ... it lies with the trolls dishing it out ... it is unacceptable and no-one should be taking it upon themselves to be judge and jury on people they really know nothing about.
This investigation is long overdue and when it is finished I hope it gives anyone thinking of trolling other people pause for thought to do something constructive for a change ... for example, an affordable donation to Missing People or another charity of their choice.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 02, 2014, 04:31:35 PM
A will by those in power to want to do something and the resources to do it. As far as I can see neither will be forthcoming any time soon.
In the absence of resources to cover all things where do we think the investigation of potential verbal abuse offences by a few raving nutters on the likes of Facebook and tw..ter should fit into the general scheme of things and where would you place it in the priority list? One does hear that the abuse is not restricted to the McCann case or is it the consensus that the McCanns are a special case warranting resources the others do not?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
In the absence of resources to cover all things where do we think the investigation of potential verbal abuse offences by a few raving nutters on the likes of Facebook and tw..ter should fit into the general scheme of things and where would you place it in the priority list? One does hear that the abuse is not restricted to the McCann case or is it the consensus that the McCanns are a special case warranting resources the others do not?
Fortunately its up to the met...and I will respect their decision. In my view not taking action will open the floodgates...online bullying and abuse is a big problem and will get worse if nothing is done about it. I speak as a victim of online abuse.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on October 02, 2014, 05:00:11 PM
Fortunately its up to the met...and I will respect their decision. In my view not taking action will open the floodgates...online bullying and abuse is a big problem and will get worse if nothing is done about it. I speak as a victim of online abuse.
Abuse is one thing but stalking and threats of violence are an entirely different matter. Some on the blue forum should take note.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 02, 2014, 05:27:14 PM
I think that this is really good. But nothing to do within this Forum. Do you think that we have all been siting on our backsides allowing this sort of nasty stuff to be posted up? And believe me, they do try.
You must think that we all came up The Clyde on a water biscuit.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 06:29:05 PM
Fortunately its up to the met...and I will respect their decision. In my view not taking action will open the floodgates...online bullying and abuse is a big problem and will get worse if nothing is done about it. I speak as a victim of online abuse.
Can you substantiate that last statement ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 02, 2014, 06:47:43 PM
From Amazon:
'A threat to kill Dr Goncalo Amaral by McCann supporters:-
1. Will this be investigated by the MPS and reported to the CPS for possible criminal action against the internet trolls who made said threats?
2. Will any McCannite cult member/supporter on this forum unequivocally condemn these threats made against Dr Amaral and, if they know the identities of the perpetrators, will they pass that information to the MPS without delay?
Just for the record, and without any equivocation whatsoever, I unreservedly condemn ANYONE who makes any threats of whatever sort against another person, whether the threat is made face to face, or through any form of electronic or paper media. '
P.S. This was provided by an ex-copper.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2014, 08:17:54 PM
1. Will this be investigated by the MPS and reported to the CPS for possible criminal action against the internet trolls who made said threats?
2. Will any McCannite cult member/supporter on this forum unequivocally condemn these threats made against Dr Amaral and, if they know the identities of the perpetrators, will they pass that information to the MPS without delay?
Just for the record, and without any equivocation whatsoever, I unreservedly condemn ANYONE who makes any threats of whatever sort against another person, whether the threat is made face to face, or through any form of electronic or paper media. '
P.S. This was provided by an ex-copper.
Well done for finding something, but the two sets of "threats" do not compare Stephen.
The one set you have just raised is more like banter. Banter that shouldn't have been said admittedly. What The Mccanns have to endure is an altogether different ball game ... even inticement for others to join in the torture bullying, death threats.
And two little nine year olds included in the threats.
D.I.S.G.U.S.T.I.N.G.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 02, 2014, 09:22:44 PM
The messages were among those posted by internet trolls who wrongly believe that Kate and Gerry, both 46, had some involvement in the disappearance of their three-year-old daughter Madeleine in Portugal in 2007.
The couple, who were cleared by police from any part in their daughter's disappearance, have been told by trolls to 'burn in hell'.
Abuse is one thing but stalking and threats of violence are an entirely different matter. Some on the blue forum should take note.
Some young people have committed suicide due to online abuse...if children are aware that parents are doing it they will view it as acceptable
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on October 02, 2014, 09:52:28 PM
Yes, a good point WS. In order to clear the parents the mystery of what became of the child has to be solved and unless Scotland Yard are keeping this information from the public this is not the case...it has not been solved or anywhere near it by all accounts.
The investigation into what happened to Madeleine has not progressed in seven years and unless there is a major breakthrough it is very likely to remain an enduring mystery possibly for ever.
I haven't yet managed to read all the MSM reports yet but are they publishing the same script?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2014, 09:59:44 PM
Yes, a good point WS. In order to clear the parents the mystery of what became of the child has to be solved and unless Scotland Yard are keeping this information from the public this is not the case...it has not been solved or anywhere near it by all accounts.
The investigation into what happened to Madeleine has not progressed in seven years and unless there is a major breakthrough it is very likely to remain an enduring mystery possibly for ever.
I haven't yet managed to read all the MSM reports yet but are they publishing the same script?
So Barry George has not been cleared
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 02, 2014, 10:07:08 PM
This story is being used by supporters as a means of stifling debate about the case. We have seen posters here conflating the reprehensible activities of some internet posters (strangely though only those in the sceptic camp) with any questioning attitude or beliefs which differ from the story. It seems the thought police are alive and well 30 years late.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 02, 2014, 10:07:17 PM
Yes, a good point WS. In order to clear the parents the mystery of what became of the child has to be solved and unless Scotland Yard are keeping this information from the public this is not the case...it has not been solved or anywhere near it by all accounts.
The investigation into what happened to Madeleine has not progressed in seven years and unless there is a major breakthrough it is very likely to remain an enduring mystery possibly for ever.
I haven't yet managed to read all the MSM reports yet but are they publishing the same script?
All repeating the details of the same Sky report, it would seem, which was handed to them by concerned McCann supporters.
Is hunting trolls likely to help find Madeleine ?
This helps SY how exactly?
They now have to waste valuable time & money on messing around investigating old wumming grannies, whilst poor little Maddie is out there alive & well & just waiting for Tito & Muzzy to rescue her.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2014, 10:29:53 PM
This story is being used by supporters as a means of stifling debate about the case. We have seen posters here conflating the reprehensible activities of some internet posters (strangely though only those in the sceptic camp) with any questioning attitude or beliefs which differ from the story. It seems the thought police are alive and well 30 years late.
8)-)))
How quaint you are.
You do realise, do you, that all the abusive, bullying remarks made almost exclusively by your side will eventually lead to us ALL losing our Freedom of Speech
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 02, 2014, 10:32:21 PM
Online abuse is vile and I deplore the antics of some cretins who threaten or abuse other people.
I don't trust the McCanns and despise their behavior in their involvement of their daughters demise and their denial of it. I.E leaving their babies alone night after night and then claim to be a happy loving 'family'. However, I Do not wish them harm, discussed and properly investigated yes! but not harmed.
Just for the record..
..'he deserves to be miserable and feel FEAR' < abuse!! F*****king T****ers... F*****king T****ers... abuse!!
I love the fact that it is only the 'supporters' who 'name call' on this forum < abuse I also like the denial of some who claim 'banter' is ok even though it is abuse!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: VIXTE on October 02, 2014, 11:49:30 PM
Martin Brunt might not be the right person to report on this issue. Wasn't he the person who set these people off by wrongly reporting about 100% proof of Madeleine's DNA found in the rented car? And then this information went on internet and was published in all major papers in the world. Not everyone is reading papers all the time. There are people who don't care about Madeleine at all but had long time read the report that Madeleine was hidden in her parent's rented car.. this made their opinion and once the opinion is made it is really hard to overturn it.
Regarding the abusers.. there are people who are obsessed with the McCanns.. I have a feeling they don't think about anything else but the McCanns. Maybe this is a mental illness, maybe this is their way of escaping the reality.Their brain just compares everything with the McCanns every little story that is mentioned on the news or in the media.
I followed Madeleine story from the day one. I was there when the hate campaign started, it was on the Mirror forum. Anyone remembers this?
There are people in the world who have no offline friends, who have lousy lives and are not respected or recognised in their own communities. In anti McCann campaign they found their own importance, they formed friendships with the people who think the same.. outside this group they know they are nobodies.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 02, 2014, 11:56:35 PM
1. Will this be investigated by the MPS and reported to the CPS for possible criminal action against the internet trolls who made said threats?
2. Will any McCannite cult member/supporter on this forum unequivocally condemn these threats made against Dr Amaral and, if they know the identities of the perpetrators, will they pass that information to the MPS without delay?
Just for the record, and without any equivocation whatsoever, I unreservedly condemn ANYONE who makes any threats of whatever sort against another person, whether the threat is made face to face, or through any form of electronic or paper media. '
P.S. This was provided by an ex-copper.
And from another victim of the supporters.
http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 03, 2014, 12:01:37 AM
Martin Brunt might not be the right person to report on this issue. Wasn't he the person who set these people off by wrongly reporting about 100% proof of Madeleine's DNA found in the rented car? And then this information went on internet and was published in all major papers in the world. Not everyone is reading papers all the time. There are people who don't care about Madeleine at all but had long time read the report that Madeleine was hidden in her parent's rented car.. this made their opinion and once the opinion is made it is really hard to overturn it.
Regarding the abusers.. there are people who are obsessed with the McCanns.. I have a feeling they don't think about anything else but the McCanns. Maybe this is a mental illness, maybe this is their way of escaping the reality.Their brain just compares everything with the McCanns every little story that is mentioned on the news or in the media.
I followed Madeleine story from the day one. I was there when the hate campaign started, it was on the Mirror forum. Anyone remembers this?
There are people in the world who have no offline friends, who have lousy lives and are not respected or recognised in their own communities. In anti McCann campaign they found their own importance, they formed friendships with the people who think the same.. outside this group they know they are nobodies.
It would be good if Martin Brunt made a clean breast of it and publicly admitted his error.
That might help
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: VIXTE on October 03, 2014, 12:06:17 AM
The Daily Mail have named the twitter woman and revealed the name of the village where she lives.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 12:13:08 AM
The solution to the resolution of alleged threats issued against Dr Amaral and his supporters might be addressed by those who are affected compiling an eighty page dossier detailing them and handing same into the police for action … along the lines of what has been done detailing threats to the McCann family.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 03, 2014, 12:31:58 AM
Martin Brunt might not be the right person to report on this issue. Wasn't he the person who set these people off by wrongly reporting about 100% proof of Madeleine's DNA found in the rented car? And then this information went on internet and was published in all major papers in the world. Not everyone is reading papers all the time. There are people who don't care about Madeleine at all but had long time read the report that Madeleine was hidden in her parent's rented car.. this made their opinion and once the opinion is made it is really hard to overturn it.
Regarding the abusers.. there are people who are obsessed with the McCanns.. I have a feeling they don't think about anything else but the McCanns. Maybe this is a mental illness, maybe this is their way of escaping the reality.Their brain just compares everything with the McCanns every little story that is mentioned on the news or in the media.
I followed Madeleine story from the day one. I was there when the hate campaign started, it was on the Mirror forum. Anyone remembers this?
There are people in the world who have no offline friends, who have lousy lives and are not respected or recognised in their own communities. In anti McCann campaign they found their own importance, they formed friendships with the people who think the same.. outside this group they know they are nobodies.
A classic propaganda technique, dehumanise the enemy !
Really didn't work this time though did it because apart from her on-line behaviour ( do we know yet what she tweeted/posted ) Sweepyface, or whatever she is called, seemed just like you and me as she was leaving her very nice house in a very quaint little village to go for lunch with a friend. She was decently dressed, erudite and not easily intimidated even when being shamelessly doorstepped by Martin Brunt.
The compiler of the dossier, on the other hand, chose to remain anonymous but from what she said she did come across as just a tad obsessed. Of course the dossier was leaked to the press by her. It was sent to the Met on the 9th of September but having, I suppose, gotten fed up waiting for her fifteen minutes of fame she did the dirty deed herself. The Met for their part, from their statement, seemed less than convinced that any action would result and quite right too.
From the number of new members joining the sceptic Facebook groups today this seems to have been another massive own goal for the MCanns. The information sites have also seen a dramatic rise in hits too. The public can't be forced to trust the McCanns and will carry on asking questions no matter what the consequences.
Kate and Gerry will never achieve what they want most which is to be washed clean of the guilt that hangs over them like a shroud. The public simply won't forget that their selfishness in all probability cost their child her life.
And you can stick that in your dossier !
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on October 03, 2014, 01:00:37 AM
Does anyone wonder...why now?
Is the release of this troll dossier to the Met and the great British Press and the publication of a new book by Summers and Swan claiming a definitive analysis of the case just too much of a coincidence coming as it does just weeks before the libel trial concludes in Lisbon?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: VIXTE on October 03, 2014, 01:02:27 AM
Of course she is obsessed when she twits several times a day only about McCanns.. If that is not obsessed then what is obsessed?
To me that means she constantly thinks only about the McCanns? And her twits were hate twits.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: VIXTE on October 03, 2014, 01:04:20 AM
Does anyone wonder...why now? The release of this vigilante dossier to the Met and the great British Press, the publication of the new book by Summers and Swan claiming a definitive analysis of the case. With the libel trial coming to a conclusion in Lisbon, is it too much of a coincidence?
The forces of evil all united to destroy Mr Amaral?
@)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 03, 2014, 01:11:28 AM
He has destroyed himself. No need for any input from anyone else
I was joking sadie. I cannot believe that anyone would connect this trolling business with Amaral..
But, if you look from another corner he is actually the centre of it. The old school! Because the all intentionally produced information that was passed to journalists in early days came from him and the sources around him. And this was the 'second hand' twisted and fabricated information that made minds of these people. And it still does. Unfortunately! Similar example would be that some people rather trust David Icke than the real scientists. @)(++(*
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 03, 2014, 02:33:07 AM
I was joking sadie. I cannot believe that anyone would connect this trolling business with Amaral..
But, if you look from another corner he is actually the centre of it. The old school! Because the all intentionally produced information that was passed to journalists in early days came from him and the sources around him. And this was the 'second hand' twisted and fabricated information that made minds of these people. And it still does. Unfortunately! Similar example would be that some people rather trust David Icke than the real scientists. @)(++(*
I suspect that the trolling has to be nipped in the bud before something terrible happens. Reading a post on F/B, Joana Morais seems to feel that the McCann libel damages trial will be clogged up in the 3.5m backlog cases as the system will only be dealing with priority cases & those which are expected to result in custodial sentences of 5 years or more. In those circumstances, it may be a year or more before matters are concluded - and the natives are very restless. Is it really fair to subject the McCanns to months/years more of inexcusable abuse whilst the Portuguese trawl their way through their judicial mess and the Met are still painstakingly working their way through the evidence? You are right, though, Vixte - it does all go back to Amaral. A carefully designed chaos was orchestrated and the conductor used his baton to ensure that all the headless chickens would always be directed into coop McCann.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 06:45:42 AM
Well done for finding something, but the two sets of "threats" do not compare Stephen.
The one set you have just raised is more like banter. Banter that shouldn't have been said admittedly. What The Mccanns have to endure is an altogether different ball game ... even inticement for others to join in the torture bullying, death threats.
And two little nine year olds included in the threats.
D.I.S.G.U.S.T.I.N.G.
Any threat of violence is inexcusable, wherever it comes from.
Unfortunately, it is not the only one.
The comment was not banter.
More in due course.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 06:51:44 AM
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 03, 2014, 07:47:07 AM
Well done to those who have compiled this dossier it's now up to the police and the law of the land. Interestingly this lady said she posted vile tweets because she was entitled to...that's the delusion of these people. It will be interesting to see what the police and courts think.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 03, 2014, 07:54:41 AM
You do realise, do you, that all the abusive, bullying remarks made almost exclusively by your side will eventually lead to us ALL losing our Freedom of Speech
I condemn abuse and bullying by either side (though banter is fine). Personally, I don't have a side, I have my own opinions.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 03, 2014, 08:05:29 AM
Hmmm. I think everyone has their own opinions, some just keep more on message.
Please elucidate. There seems to be an implication in what you've written but I'd like you to explain further before I jump to conclusions.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 03, 2014, 08:16:06 AM
On the very rare occasion that I have seen anything even remotely unpleasant from a supposed McCann Supporter, I have only hoped that they aren't McCann Supporters, and I have said so.
I make no excuses for their behaviour, although I expect that I could if I wanted to.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 03, 2014, 08:21:32 AM
On the very rare occasion that I have seen anything even remotely unpleasant from a supposed McCann Supporter, I have only hoped that they aren't McCann Supporters, and I have said so.
I make no excuses for their behaviour, although I expect that I could if I wanted to.
There are no excuses for threats of physical violence and/or intimidation, under any circumstances.
Unfortunately, cases like this do seem to bring out the worst in some people.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 11:33:59 AM
I will make just one observation ... there were those who organised a campaign to prevent the CW programme featuring Madeleine McCann's case being aired on BBC.
When that campaign failed ... they organised a campaign to tie up the information phone lines to the CW desk.
These people by their actions do not want Madeleine McCann found ... particularly if she is alive and well.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 11:40:51 AM
I will make just one observation ... there were those who organised a campaign to prevent the CW programme featuring Madeleine McCann's case being aired on BBC.
When that campaign failed ... they organised a campaign to tie up the information phone lines to the CW desk.
These people by their actions do not want Madeleine McCann found ... particularly if she is alive and well.
Utter cobblers.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 03, 2014, 11:48:34 AM
I will make just one observation ... there were those who organised a campaign to prevent the CW programme featuring Madeleine McCann's case being aired on BBC.
When that campaign failed ... they organised a campaign to tie up the information phone lines to the CW desk.
These people by their actions do not want Madeleine McCann found ... particularly if she is alive and well.
8@??)(
Just what is going on, that people deliberately make concerted and organised efforts to try and prevent Madeleine being found.
JUST WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: a.baker on October 03, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
Unfortunately there are thousands of people that do not believe the Mccann's story. People intelligent enough to see that there is very little evidence to support the abduction claim. Its not that these people wish for Madeleine not to be found,its that they wish for whoever is responsible for her disappearance to be brought to justice.
[ edited ]
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 03, 2014, 01:01:45 PM
Unfortunately there are thousands of people that do not believe the Mccann's story. People intelligent enough to see that there is very little evidence to support the abduction claim. Its not that these people wish for Madeleine not to be found,its that they wish for whoever is responsible for her disappearance to be brought to justice.
Why should it be unfortunate ? Seems a perfectly reasonable view to hold
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 03, 2014, 01:02:40 PM
Just what is going on, that people deliberately make concerted and organised efforts to try and prevent Madeleine being found. JUST WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ?
Smithman did that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: a.baker on October 03, 2014, 01:08:37 PM
Sorry,I had meant 'unfortunately' for those that believe the Mccann's totally innocent of any wrongdoing. It is totally wrong imo to accuse these people of not wanting Madeleine to be found. They just want the truth of what happened to her and those that truly care about this child should want the same. Whatever that truth may be!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 03, 2014, 01:29:53 PM
Sorry,I had meant 'unfortunately' for those that believe the Mccann's totally innocent of any wrongdoing. It is totally wrong imo to accuse these people of not wanting Madeleine to be found. They just want the truth of what happened to her and those that truly care about this child should want the same. Whatever that truth may be!
It is part of the propaganda techniques.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 03, 2014, 01:44:34 PM
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 03, 2014, 02:49:47 PM
I see Gerry McCann has been speaking on Radio 4 today asking for more police action against abusers. Could I suggest Mr McCann that instead of fanning the flames of hate you and your fellow PdL revellers buy some plane tickets to Faro and go back and take part in that reconstruction you and they so conveniently avoided.
Why are you so scared to take part Mr McCann?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 02:56:12 PM
Unfortunately there are thousands of people that do not believe the Mccann's story. People intelligent enough to see that there is very little evidence to support the abduction claim. Its not that these people wish for Madeleine not to be found,its that they wish for whoever is responsible for her disappearance to be brought to justice.
Hmmm ... which explains why people like you and Stephen in the post above continually harp on about the cost of the search for Madeleine McCann. You really want her found? ... strange ... when her parents were the only ones financing the search for her ... everyone was carping about the FF set up to finance the search.
It is about time the 'thousands' of trolls who are hounding Madeleine McCann's parents and siblings recognised the rule of law if not decency and conducted themselves accordingly.
Hopefully some may soon find the law does have teeth... and the present poster girl of the movement Ms 'Sweepyface' who is not by far the worst offender is deemed to have suffered enough humiliation in her naming and shaming (and believe me, in the eyes of decent people she is shamed).
Someone somewhere is organising this and they too may be unmasked and challenged legally on their motives, who knows we may discover something very interesting which could tie in with your last sentence. Might be why it has taken an outside complaint to 'out' these trolls - it maybe suited not to - give them enough rope etc. etc.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 03, 2014, 03:27:43 PM
I see Gerry McCann has been speaking on Radio 4 today asking for more police action against abusers. Could I suggest Mr McCann that instead of fanning the flames of hate you and your fellow PdL revellers buy some plane tickets to Faro and go back and take part in that reconstruction you and they so conveniently avoided.
Why are you so scared to take part Mr McCann?
Do you think there is a reason for this week's flurry of activity? Is it a coincidence that the law regarding presumed death has changed this week?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 03, 2014, 03:57:02 PM
Do you think there is a reason for this week's flurry of activity? Is it a coincidence that the law regarding presumed death has changed this week?
The launch of the new book was delayed and was supposed to coincide with the end of the libel trial in Lisbon but that has backfired spectacularly for all involved. The abusers dossier was sent to all and sundry at the beginning of September but only just surfaced yesterday. Coincidence? No!
Fanning the flames it might be but pouring petrol upon them is so much better.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 03, 2014, 04:03:28 PM
The launch of the new book was delayed and was supposed to coincide with the end of the libel trial in Lisbon but that has backfired spectacularly for all involved. The abusers dossier was sent to all and sundry at the beginning of September but only just surfaced yesterday. Coincidence? No!
Fanning the flames it might be but pouring petrol upon them is so much better.
The launch of the new book was delayed to coincide with the end of the libel trial according to whom? Why did the dossier only surface yesterday in you view? Who benefits from its release to the media then as opposed to a few weeks earlier, exactly?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 03, 2014, 04:03:35 PM
Unfortunately there are thousands of people that do not believe the Mccann's story. People intelligent enough to see that there is very little evidence to support the abduction claim. Its not that these people wish for Madeleine not to be found,its that they wish for whoever is responsible for her disappearance to be brought to justice.
We all wish this and that's why SY must be allowed to continue with their investigations
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 03, 2014, 04:17:11 PM
Don't you know...the delay on ILOR's due to the reorganisation of the Portuguese courts....plus the refusal of the Portuguese to hold a joint investigation
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 04:32:03 PM
The launch of the new book was delayed and was supposed to coincide with the end of the libel trial in Lisbon but that has backfired spectacularly for all involved. The abusers dossier was sent to all and sundry at the beginning of September but only just surfaced yesterday. Coincidence? No!
Fanning the flames it might be but pouring petrol upon them is so much better.
I concur.
A logical analysis Angelo.
...and with the poor book sales, whatever next ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 03, 2014, 04:32:41 PM
Jeez Angelo it's like pressing button 8(0(* Press this button here and red light will come on over there ! That gives you power because you know before they do what they are going to say next ! *&*%£
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 04:32:56 PM
I see Gerry McCann has been speaking on Radio 4 today asking for more police action against abusers. Could I suggest Mr McCann that instead of fanning the flames of hate you and your fellow PdL revellers buy some plane tickets to Faro and go back and take part in that reconstruction you and they so conveniently avoided.
Why are you so scared to take part Mr McCann?
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 04:57:37 PM
SEARCHING For MADELEINE ... must have been 'timed' to coincide with something or other ... maybe to engender troll attacks to tie in with the police being given a dossier containing details of ... troll attacks.
Another 'documentary' repeating tired old canards ... is eulogised and no one wonders about the timing of that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 03, 2014, 05:04:07 PM
SEARCHING For MADELEINE ... must have been 'timed' to coincide with something or other ... maybe to engender troll attacks to tie in with the police being given a dossier containing details of ... troll attacks.
Another 'documentary' repeating tired old canards ... is eulogised and no one wonders about the timing of that.
As Angelo states, the dossier has been around since the onset of September.
No one is disputing on here as far as I know what this woman and other people were doing was appalling.
However, why bring it out know into the public arena ?
Surely not because of poor book sales.
Whatever next ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 05:12:07 PM
Whatever. I really can't be arsed with your pedantry.
Perhaps if some were more pedantic and others were more capable of being able to interpret little nuances and downright lies, there would be fewer trolls now being investigated by the police.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 03, 2014, 05:16:05 PM
seems you are having problems understanding your own posts now
Merciful heavens sir it hardly surprising is it?. Whatever one posts or asks some silly billy will answer a different question and then tell the original poster they do not understand something or other which led to them making a foolish post. It is unfortunately de riguer in these parts. So a simpleton like me will always be confused by the high intellects evident on this site. Oh well tomorrow is another day said Dougal; and it was. Good day sir have a nice evening.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 05:21:01 PM
As Angelo states, the dossier has been around since the onset of September.
No one is disputing on here as far as I know what this woman and other people were doing was appalling.
However, why bring it out know into the public arena ?
Surely not because of poor book sales.
Whatever next ?
Their timing must indeed be prescient. %£&)**#
They have managed to get the trolls to attack them just as a dossier on trolls the police have been studying hits Sky News with the collateral damage to Ms 'Sweepyface'.
Wonder what lottery numbers they are thinking of putting on ... cos if they don't gamble ... they really should ... they seem to be excellent with their forecasts.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 05:21:17 PM
Perhaps if some were more pedantic and others were more capable of being able to interpret little nuances and downright lies, there would be fewer trolls now being investigated by the police.
and does that include the trolls supporting the mccanns ?
Or is your judgement one sided ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 03, 2014, 05:24:44 PM
Again, why won't you condemn trolls who support the mccanns ?
Who else with, no criminal background, no evidence against them of any crime committed, is there to support? No idea about supporting mccann trolls, telling lies about, or threatening any other persons of the qualities, aforementioned. However threats and lies are intolerable any where and should be dealt with by their Country’s police. ………………………………........................................ Sorry I have gone off topic, “Investigation into McCann internet trolls”
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 03, 2014, 07:05:26 PM
Who else with, no criminal background, no evidence against them of any crime committed, is there to support? No idea about supporting mccann trolls, telling lies about, or threatening any other persons of the qualities, aforementioned. However threats and lies are intolerable any where and should be dealt with by their Country’s police. ………………………………........................................ Sorry I have gone off topic, “Investigation into McCann internet trolls”
From wherever they come Anna ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 03, 2014, 07:51:16 PM
Hmmm ... which explains why people of your ilk like Stephen in the post above continually harp on about the cost of the search for Madeleine McCann. You really want her found? ... strange ... when her parents were the only ones financing the search for her ... everyone was carping about the FF set up to finance the search.
It is about time the 'thousands' of trolls who are hounding Madeleine McCann's parents and siblings recognised the rule of law if not decency and conducted themselves accordingly.
Hopefully some may soon find the law does have teeth... and the present poster girl of the movement Ms 'Sweepyface' who is not by far the worst offender is deemed to have suffered enough humiliation in her naming and shaming (and believe me, in the eyes of decent people she is shamed).
Someone somewhere is organising this and they too may be unmasked and challenged legally on their motives, who knows we may discover something very interesting which could tie in with your last sentence. Might be why it has taken an outside complaint to 'out' these trolls - it maybe suited not to - give them enough rope etc. etc.
Please show me where I have EVER complained about the cost of the search for Madeleine. I have NOT,so please do not attribute such lies to me. I have no problem with the cost of the search,my only opinion is that the same should be afforded to other families of British missing children,for example Ben Needham's family.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 07:59:55 PM
She could start a blog like this one http://watchingthetrolls.blogspot.co.uk/ It seems there will be more arrests soon.
Thanks for that link Anna, very interesting; the size of the recent archive shows the volume of the hatred being directed at the McCann family by these internet trolls; if as stated there will be developments in the next couple of weeks we may at last see the beginning of the end of their unrestrained abuse.
Some people should worry ... and I think it is too late to try to disassociate and delete accounts etc.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 03, 2014, 08:02:14 PM
Thanks for that link Anna, very interesting; the size of the recent archive shows the volume of the hatred being directed at the McCann family by these internet trolls; if as stated there will be developments in the next couple of weeks we may at last see the beginning of the end of their unrestrained abuse.
Some people should worry ... and I think it is too late to try to disassociate and delete accounts etc.
I wiped my harddrive of all the kid porn & set fire to the greenhouse in anticipation.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 08:02:39 PM
Please show me where I have EVER complained about the cost of the search for Madeleine. I have NOT,so please do not attribute such lies to me. I have no problem with the cost of the search,my only opinion is that the same should be afforded to other families of British missing children,for example Ben Needham's family.
Well said Amanda.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Unfortunately, some mccann supporters feel they have a moral superiority over others.
They don't.
[ moderated ]
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 03, 2014, 08:03:59 PM
Thanks for that link Anna, very interesting; the size of the recent archive shows the volume of the hatred being directed at the McCann family by these internet trolls; if as stated there will be developments in the next couple of weeks we may at last see the beginning of the end of their unrestrained abuse.
Some people should worry ... and I think it is too late to try to disassociate and delete accounts etc.
Too many screenshots around now, for that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 03, 2014, 08:15:13 PM
Please show me where I have EVER complained about the cost of the search for Madeleine. I have NOT,so please do not attribute such lies to me. I have no problem with the cost of the search,my only opinion is that the same should be afforded to other families of British missing children,for example Ben Needham's family.
[ moderated ] ...you see fit to post that there is “plenty of circumstantial evidence against them (the McCanns)” and have a hissy fit when called out on it.
Hopefully once a few troll prosecutions have occurred it will be realised that such unfounded accusation even if repeating someone else is entirely unacceptable.
I am delighted that you have no problem with the cost of the search for Madeleine, but as a matter of interest can you tell me in what way you have assisted Ben Needham’s family or the families of other missing people other than to use them pejoratively?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 03, 2014, 08:19:46 PM
There's a long article about Sweepface troll in the Times today, which has attracted 232 readers' comments , the vast majority of which condemning the actions of her and her fellow h8ers and supportive of the McCanns. It's interesting how much more civilised the readers comments are when there is a paywall in place, far fewer anonymous and abusive trolls.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 03, 2014, 08:20:19 PM
Unfortunately there are thousands of people that do not believe the Mccann's story. People intelligent enough to see that there is very little evidence to support the abduction claim. Its not that these people wish for Madeleine not to be found,its that they wish for whoever is responsible for her disappearance to be brought to justice.
You are correct Amanda, in that many people do not believe the McCanns, but as to intelligence, how can they openly accuse and threaten people, when there is absolutely no reliable evidence, to back it up, at the risk of being arrested? I also find it difficult to believe, that anyone would not want the child found and the culprit/s responsible for her disappearance punished. None of us can say, that we know by whom or in which manner the child disappeared, so wild accusations are just plain silly and irresponsible. We can all speculate and nothing more, while we await the results of the present investigation.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 03, 2014, 09:54:41 PM
Interesting article, her quoted tweet is very similar to "he deserves to be miserable and feel FEAR"
What grievance, did she have with McCanns, whom she had probably, never met, when she answered as follows:-
#McCann Q: How long must the McCanns suffer' answer 'for the rest of their miserable lives'."
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 10:04:51 PM
[quote deleted]
Among the worst excesses of the internet trolls targeting the McCann family are the dangers they represent to the children.
As the saying goes, they know where they live, as people think nothing of posting vile leaflets through their neighbours’ letterboxes.
The trolls who take delight in targeting Madeleine’s siblings are the ones I would most like to see taken to court and prosecuted for their stalking behaviour.
Behaviour which has included holding discussions about kidnapping one of the twins; discussing the activities the children take part in; discussing their route to school; sharing maps and timing distances of the route; visiting the school web site for dates and times of semesters; discussing school bus timetables; publishing photographs on the internet of the children at a private family outing.
Now imagine a motley group of adults was doing that to your children or your grandchildren.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 03, 2014, 10:17:12 PM
What grievance, did she have with McCanns, whom she had probably, never met, when she answered as follows:-
#McCann Q: How long must the McCanns suffer' answer 'for the rest of their miserable lives'."
She came over to me as a very bitter woman when I read she is a divorcee tweeting unfounded speculations about the state of someone elses' marriage.
The point is, although she must be absolutely mortified at being on the receiving end of a very bad press for a short time and as events progress she will be forgotten – people have been doing this to the people she targeted for over seven years – perhaps it will give her pause for reflection on that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 03, 2014, 10:26:43 PM
She came over to me as a very bitter woman when I read she is a divorcee tweeting unfounded speculations about the state of someone elses' marriage.
The point is, although she must be absolutely mortified at being on the receiving end of a very bad press for a short time and as events progress she will be forgotten – people have been doing this to the people she targeted for over seven years – perhaps it will give her pause for reflection on that.
The trolls were absolutely convinced the McCanns had split up, just shows what delusional fools they are.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 03, 2014, 10:34:38 PM
She came over to me as a very bitter woman when I read she is a divorcee tweeting unfounded speculations about the state of someone elses' marriage.
The point is, although she must be absolutely mortified at being on the receiving end of a very bad press for a short time and as events progress she will be forgotten – people have been doing this to the people she targeted for over seven years – perhaps it will give her pause for reflection on that.
Her photo on the press, looked nothing like the kindly lady on the video. She did look angry, bedraggled and bitter, but I felt a bit sorry for her, after all she is no youngster. 8(8-)) Silly silly lady, to have got herself into that situation. I had assumed it was mainly bored, youngsters who got involved with this sort of harassment on line. I was so wrong!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 03, 2014, 10:42:22 PM
Among the worst excesses of the internet trolls targeting the McCann family are the dangers they represent to the children.
As the saying goes, they know where they live, as people think nothing of posting vile leaflets through their neighbours’ letterboxes.
The trolls who take delight in targeting Madeleine’s siblings are the ones I would most like to see taken to court and prosecuted for their stalking behaviour.
Behaviour which has included holding discussions about kidnapping one of the twins; discussing the activities the children take part in; discussing their route to school; sharing maps and timing distances of the route; visiting the school web site for dates and times of semesters; discussing school bus timetables; publishing photographs on the internet of the children at a private family outing.
Now imagine a motley group of adults was doing that to your children or your grandchildren.
Imagine your children knew nothing about all of the above and learned about the threats etc from friends in school because a supporter of your parents had revealed them to the media for her fifteen minutes of fame, because in all probability that is exactly what awaited the twins this morning.
Make no mistake, if the McCann twins are at home tonight asking their parents if they are safe the blame can be solely laid at the feet of the supporters who obviously thought nothing of destroying the piece of mind of two already traumatised children.
This dossier could and should have been dealt with in private by the Met. The fact that it wasn't has shown clearly that for supporters even the welfare of the twins comes second to carrying out Kate and Gerry's 'parents as victims' agenda.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 03, 2014, 11:31:22 PM
I think she said a lot more that wasn't included in the News, but we will find out soon.
Then let's hope it wasn't directed at the twins but then again your need to publicly see sceptics shamed takes precedence over the mental welfare of the McCanns remaining children, doesn't it ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on October 03, 2014, 11:48:25 PM
Imagine your children knew nothing about all of the above and learned about the threats etc from friends in school because a supporter of your parents had revealed them to the media for her fifteen minutes of fame, because in all probability that is exactly what awaited the twins this morning.
Make no mistake, if the McCann twins are at home tonight asking their parents if they are safe the blame can be solely laid at the feet of the supporters who obviously thought nothing of destroying the piece of mind of two already traumatised children.
This dossier could and should have been dealt with in private by the Met. The fact that it wasn't has shown clearly that for supporters even the welfare of the twins comes second to carrying out Kate and Gerry's 'parents as victims' agenda.
RUBBISH
The blame rests firmly at the feet of those who made the threats.
Try thinking straight for a change Faith.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 03, 2014, 11:52:04 PM
Then let's hope it wasn't directed at the twins but then again your need to publicly see sceptics shamed takes precedence over the mental welfare of the McCanns remaining children, doesn't it ?
They come parcelled.....If the abuse is not ended soon, the twins will suffer more, when they are more aware of the threats, which would only increase with time. As I have already said, I feel sorry for that silly, silly, lady, but this has to be stopped now and it's too late to say "Nip it in the bud" so lets hope for the sake of these children and all the family of MM, it is put an end soon.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 03, 2014, 11:52:34 PM
The blame rests firmly at the feet of those who ,ade the threats.
Try thinking straight for a change Faith.
The blame for tweeting the threats lies firmly with the tweeters. The blame for the twins finding out they were being threatened rests with their parents and their supporters alone.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 03, 2014, 11:57:51 PM
They come parcelled.....If the abuse is not ended soon, the twins will suffer more, when they are more aware of the threats, which would only increase with time. As I have already said, I feel sorry for that silly, silly, lady, but this has to be stopped now and it's too late to say "Nip it in the bud" so lets hope for the sake of these children and all the family of MM, it is put an end soon.
If you were truly concerned about the welfare of these children you would want the police to their job in private so the twins never find out that they have been threatened.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 04, 2014, 12:05:41 AM
If you were truly concerned about the welfare of these children you would want the police to their job in private so the twins never find out that they have been threatened.
And you honestly think that, that would stop the trolls that you obviously believe to be doing no harm?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 04, 2014, 12:09:04 AM
They come parcelled.....If the abuse is not ended soon, the twins will suffer more, when they are more aware of the threats, which would only increase with time. As I have already said, I feel sorry for that silly, silly, lady, but this has to be stopped now and it's too late to say "Nip it in the bud" so lets hope for the sake of these children and all the family of MM, it is put an end soon.
What do you think can be done then anna?
Arrest us all, take our computers away, something like that...
Not going to happen is it.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 04, 2014, 12:15:54 AM
There are serious threats to kill & abduct in there, aren't there?
Don't seem to be in much of a hurry really do they.
The b*stards.
you are much too inoffensive to be arrested...your accusations are generally quite mild
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: VIXTE on October 04, 2014, 12:49:09 AM
I think people stalking McCanns in gyms and shops and those who tweet about them twenty four hours a day should be put in a mental hospital, not in a jal @)(++(*
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 04, 2014, 12:53:30 AM
I think people stalking McCanns in gyms and shops and those who twit about them twenty four hours a day should be put in a mental hospital, not in a jal @)(++(*
Was she stalked at the gym?
Or was it that she uses the same gym as someone who chose to tweet about it.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: VIXTE on October 04, 2014, 01:25:26 AM
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2014, 09:53:15 AM
Let me be clear about this. Threats of physical violence against anyone are to be abhorred and especially so if the individuals targeted are children. That anyone guilty of such an offence should be punished within the law is self-evident. What shouldn't happen however is for the information given to the police then to be given to the media tainting the whole process of justice and frightening the young victims, who were in all probability oblivious to the threats up until that point. That the McCann's supporters feel that this kind of behaviour somehow protects the twins beggars belief and I can only thank my lucky stars that they don't feel the 'need' to protect anyone close to me.
Further while abusive comments should be dealt with in an appropriate manner the public's right to ask questions in a civil manner about the events of the night of 3rd of May 2007 should not be made a shameful act. The actions of the few should not be allowed to erode the freedoms of the many.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 04, 2014, 09:58:13 AM
Let me be clear about this. Threats of physical violence against anyone are to be abhorred and especially so if the individuals targeted are children. That anyone guilty of such an offence should be punished within the law is self-evident. What shouldn't happen however is for the information given to the police then to be given to the media tainting the whole process of justice and frightening the young victims, who were in all probability oblivious to the threats up until that point. That the McCann's supporters feel that this kind of behaviour somehow protects the twins beggars belief and I can only thank my lucky stars that they don't feel the 'need' to protect anyone close to me. Further while abusive comments should be dealt with in an appropriate manner the public's right to ask questions in a civil manner about the events of the night of 3rd of May 2007 should not be made a shameful act. The actions of the few should not be allowed to erode the freedoms of the many.
Brilliant idea that one, wasn't it.
Like Angelo said, pouring petrol on the flames.
Someone thought they could shame people into believing & that would help.
Things are that desperate.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2014, 11:37:50 AM
Then certain posters should now be very careful what they type now.
The abuse and threats have gone both ways.
Things have a way of coming back to bite at the biter.
Good advice for all, Stephen.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: a.baker on October 04, 2014, 03:10:20 PM
I do not concern myself with how the Mccann's live their lives,but obviously they have perceived threats made towards themselves and their children from a handful of nasty cowards to be very real. Can anyone say then,what preventative measures have the Mccann's put in place to safeguard the security of their family?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Victoria on October 04, 2014, 03:26:33 PM
I do not concern myself with how the Mccann's live their lives,but obviously they have perceived threats made towards themselves and their children from a handful of nasty cowards to be very real. Can anyone say then,what preventative measures have the Mccann's put in place to safeguard the security of their family?
Jolly good. In light of recent developments, it's probably best if you and everyone else keeps it that way, wouldn't you say? 8)--))
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: a.baker on October 04, 2014, 03:40:39 PM
What recent developments?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 04, 2014, 03:41:03 PM
Much whining about "[ censored word]" being abused too, and "Dr" Amaral apparently receiving threats from evil pros. And a poster on here apparently compiling a "dossier" of abused [ censored word]? Good grief.
But there is one thing which separates the two. The McCann family were true victims in this, and cannot simply walk away. Madeleine is still missing. And they are easy targets for anyone who sees it as their right to heap abuse.
ALL of the rest are involved in this case voluntarily - and if they dont like it, can simply walk away. Stephen can complie as many dossiers of poor victims of abuse as he likes - the answer will be the same - you dont like it? - step away from the computer.
And bleating about "wot about my rights to free speech" won't wash I'm afraid - you want to have the right to dish it out? Then expect to have to take it too.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Moderator on October 04, 2014, 03:45:13 PM
Zero tolerance should be applied to all forms of abuse and I for one have no problem about reporting serious instances to the appropriate authorities but I must question why this dossier was also sent to all the media outlets. In my opinion this cheapened the entire exercise in that it was obvious that the need to get one over on the 'opposition' was deemed more important than justice.
Had this abuser identified by Martin Brunt in his special report been given an official warning, charged or prosecuted then that was the time to release information to the press. As an aside, I find Martin Brunt to be a bit of a hypocrite since it was not so many years ago that he too pointed an accusing finger at the McCanns. Oh the shame of it all!!!!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2014, 03:57:13 PM
Zero tolerance should be applied to all forms of abuse and I for one have no problem about reporting serious instances to the appropriate authorities but I must question why this dossier was also sent to all the media outlets. In my opinion this cheapened the entire exercise in that it was obvious that the need to get one over on the 'opposition' was deemed more important than justice.
Had this abuser identified by Martin Brunt in his special report been given an official warning, charged or prosecuted then that was the time to release information to the press. As an aside, I find Martin Brunt to be a bit of a hypocrite since it was not so many years ago that he too pointed an accusing finger at the McCanns. Oh the shame of it all!!!!
Thank you for mirroring my comments made earlier.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 04, 2014, 04:17:18 PM
Much whining about "[ censored word]" being abused too, and "Dr" Amaral apparently receiving threats from evil [ censored word ]. And a poster on here apparently compiling a "dossier" of abused [ censored word]? Good grief.
But there is one thing which separates the two. The McCann family were true victims in this, and cannot simply walk away. Madeleine is still missing. And they are easy targets for anyone who sees it as their right to heap abuse.
ALL of the rest are involved in this case voluntarily - and if they dont like it, can simply walk away. Stephen can complie as many dossiers of poor victims of abuse as he likes - the answer will be the same - you dont like it? - step away from the computer.
And bleating about "wot about my rights to free speech" won't wash I'm afraid - you want to have the right to dish it out? Then expect to have to take it too.
A brief reminder.
If not for the mccans and their 'responsible parenting skills', none of us would be here.
The McCann's have used the media mercilessly and Angelo hit the nail on the head yesterday as regards the release of the McCann supporters dossier.
Madeleine is the victim of her parents neglect, FACT.
Abuse and threats wherever they originate are not acceptable.
P.S. It's not just one person collecting a 'dossier' of abuse, and it's not just a dossier
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2014, 04:55:07 PM
Seems visitors to the website that hosts the PJ files have risen from 20,000 to 75,000 since trollgate !
It looks to me like it's not the actions of the sceptics that are harming the McCanns but their own supporters !
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 04, 2014, 04:59:54 PM
If not for the mccans and their 'responsible parenting skills', none of us would be here.
The McCann's have used the media mercilessly and Angelo hit the nail on the head yesterday as regards the release of the McCann supporters dossier.
Madeleine is the victim of her parents neglect, FACT.
Abuse and threats wherever they originate are not acceptable.
P.S. It's not just one person collecting a 'dossier' of abuse, and it's not just a dossier
A brief reminder. If it was not for the child snatchers and child abusers who prey for the innocent children and who are left unpunished in Portugal no one would be here.
We should make a world where children can freely walk on the street like I did and my parents did. Where children can freely sleep in their beds in unlocked houses like I did and my parents did.
Those who don't allow this should be targeted by law and should be punished by law in worst possible ways.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 04, 2014, 05:20:07 PM
A brief reminder. If it was not for the child snatchers and child abusers who prey for the innocent children and who are left unpunished in Portugal no one would be here.
You don't know who removed Madeleine from the apartment.
Unknown crime.
No one has been charged.
YET.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 04, 2014, 05:37:09 PM
I do not concern myself with how the Mccann's live their lives,but obviously they have perceived threats made towards themselves and their children from a handful of nasty cowards to be very real. Can anyone say then,what preventative measures have the Mccann's put in place to safeguard the security of their family?
If through necessity one has had to install a security system to protect one’s home – one’s person and most importantly one’s children; it doesn’t appear to be a sensible move to give details of it on the internet or to any passing stranger.
Rather negates the purpose don’t you think?
I have no doubt that given the nature of the threats directed at the person of the Drs McCann consideration must also be given by the authorities to scheduled public appearances.
Just as when advice was taken on at least one occasion to cancel a book signing because of promised disruption arranged on-line and when threats to shoot Dr McCann while she was running in the London Marathon were taken very seriously indeed.
Why are there people who feel "entitled" to do this?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 04, 2014, 05:56:18 PM
Much whining about "[ censored word]" being abused too, and "Dr" Amaral apparently receiving threats from evil [ censored word ]. And a poster on here apparently compiling a "dossier" of abused [ censored word]? Good grief.
But there is one thing which separates the two. The McCann family were true victims in this, and cannot simply walk away. Madeleine is still missing. And they are easy targets for anyone who sees it as their right to heap abuse.
ALL of the rest are involved in this case voluntarily - and if they dont like it, can simply walk away. Stephen can complie as many dossiers of poor victims of abuse as he likes - the answer will be the same - you dont like it? - step away from the computer.
And bleating about "wot about my rights to free speech" won't wash I'm afraid - you want to have the right to dish it out? Then expect to have to take it too.
I understand a few twitter accounts have vanished and FB pages ammended.
The trolls are demonstrating that they do not understand they have left footprints all over the internet; and if their 'names' are in the dossier and their offences have been considered to be serious enough they may very well be contacted by the police.
If Sky News could track 'tweetyface' should be easy enough for law enforcement to do the same with the others.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2014, 06:03:05 PM
I understand a few twitter accounts have vanished and FB pages ammended.
The trolls are demonstrating that they do not understand they have left footprints all over the internet; and if their 'names' are in the dossier and their offences have been considered to be serious enough they may very well be contacted by the police.
If Sky News could track 'tweetyface' should be easy enough for law enforcement to do the same with the others.
I've also heard STM have had a bit of a spring clean and as the dossier discloser is a member there the timing does seem rather fortuitous.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 04, 2014, 06:06:35 PM
Isn't it touching how some people who, after years and years of making posts online about how the McCanns dunnit, having bitched about and ripped to shreds everything about this couple and their family, and having made scathing comments about (for example) how ugly Gerry is and about how the McCanns have almost certainly split up, suddenly start caring about the psychological welfare of their 'remaining' children. There's a word for this - it's called hypocrisy and it stinks.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 04, 2014, 06:09:34 PM
Zero tolerance should be applied to all forms of abuse and I for one have no problem about reporting serious instances to the appropriate authorities but I must question why this dossier was also sent to all the media outlets. In my opinion this cheapened the entire exercise in that it was obvious that the need to get one over on the 'opposition' was deemed more important than justice.
Had this abuser identified by Martin Brunt in his special report been given an official warning, charged or prosecuted then that was the time to release information to the press. As an aside, I find Martin Brunt to be a bit of a hypocrite since it was not so many years ago that he too pointed an accusing finger at the McCanns. Oh the shame of it all!!!!
Perhaps the dossier was sent to the MSM to ensure that the police would carry out the proper diligence.
It is my opinion they have singularly failed in this respect for far too long.
The trolling and abuse suffered by the McCann family has been allowed to continue with very little interference from the police for over seven years. I believe that is seven years too long.
Perhaps if a Zero Tolerance Policy had been adopted right at the start the situation would not be at the stage it is now with people mistakenly believing they “are entitled”; and just as a public letter was required from Madeleine's parents to get the current investigation off the ground, perhaps the members of the public who submitted the dossier are ensuring it isn't filed and forgotten about.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: DCI on October 04, 2014, 06:20:02 PM
The Mercury visited Burton Overy yesterday, but on discovering Ms Leyland was not at home was told by a neighbour that she had “fled the village”.
The resident, who would rather not be named said: “Somebody took a photo of her on Thursday afternoon and then she was gone.
“I haven’t seen her since.”
Accusations of Ms Leyland being involved with the internet attacks appears to have shocked many residents in Burton Overy, a small, idyllic village in south-east Leicestershire.
One resident said: “I was totally surprised.
“But while I wouldn’t condone what Brenda is accused of doing, I am worried for her safety now she has apparently fled the village.”
A fellow villager said: “We all have opinions on things but they should be kept to yourself.”
Another person said: “I find it quite sad that people sit in their house all day just tweeting about stuff.
“I don’t think what these people have done is nice at all, I think it’s horrible!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2014, 06:22:34 PM
Isn't it interesting that although some individuals have for years professed to care for the welfare, both physical and psychological, of the McCann twins, when a chance is presented to point score against those they see as the enemy all thought of their emotional well being is thrown to the fore winds in favour of giving the opposition ' a good kicking' !! They are the worst kind of dissimulator !
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 04, 2014, 06:29:16 PM
The Mercury visited Burton Overy yesterday, but on discovering Ms Leyland was not at home was told by a neighbour that she had “fled the village”.
The resident, who would rather not be named said: “Somebody took a photo of her on Thursday afternoon and then she was gone.
“I haven’t seen her since.”
Accusations of Ms Leyland being involved with the internet attacks appears to have shocked many residents in Burton Overy, a small, idyllic village in south-east Leicestershire.
One resident said: “I was totally surprised.
“But while I wouldn’t condone what Brenda is accused of doing, I am worried for her safety now she has apparently fled the village.”
A fellow villager said: “We all have opinions on things but they should be kept to yourself.”
Another person said: “I find it quite sad that people sit in their house all day just tweeting about stuff.
“I don’t think what these people have done is nice at all, I think it’s horrible!
A bit like us lot on here really wouldn't you say? 8(>((
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 04, 2014, 06:32:03 PM
Do I tweet? do you think I am a bleedin' canary or something? With my vocabulary I would only manage about five words before I ran out of character space 8(>((
I include myself in this comment of course; anonymous internet forum posters are a bunch of saddos imho. If twitter had been called tw..ter no one would use it!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 04, 2014, 10:28:27 PM
If not for the mccans and their 'responsible parenting skills', none of us would be here.
The McCann's have used the media mercilessly and Angelo hit the nail on the head yesterday as regards the release of the McCann supporters dossier.
Madeleine is the victim of her parents neglect, FACT.
Abuse and threats wherever they originate are not acceptable.
P.S. It's not just one person collecting a 'dossier' of abuse, and it's not just a dossier
Speak for yourself Stephen - the only reason I am here is because I was so shocked at the appalling treatment which I accidentally discovered was being meted out to the McCann family via the internet. Until that time I had no idea it was happening or that people could be so cruel to the parents of a missing child.
IMO only those people who consider themselves to be perfect human beings won't understand that most folk accept that people make all kinds of human errors when it comes to parenting, and do not agree that they should be persecuted/hounded for the rest of their lives for the apparent 'crime' (in some people's eyes) - of not being a 'perfect parent'.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 04, 2014, 11:12:07 PM
Carole Malone (a bit of a "sceptics" hero, I believe for her criticism of the McCanns in the past) gives the trolls both barrels and some more in this article:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-internet-trolls-devoid-4379575#ixzz3FClNRzMi http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-internet-trolls-devoid-4379575#ixzz3FClNRzMi
Madeleine McCann internet trolls are devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted her
Oct 04, 2014 19:57 OPINION BY CAROLEMALONE Sunday Mirror columnist Carole Malone says that whatever your opinions about the McCanns, sending them vile abuse and death threats is cowardly and depraved
Over the years I’ve had a lot to say about Kate and Gerry McCann. Like many people, I was angry at what I believed to be their irresponsibility in leaving young children alone while they went out drinking.
I could never forgive the fact that while holidaying in Portugal they left two-year-old twins and three-year-old Madeleine alone in an unlocked apartment not just for one night, but for many nights – even after Madeleine had cried and asked them not to leave her because she was scared.
And despite the fact there was a 10-quid babysitting service at their resort which they could have used, but chose not to.
These were mistakes that changed the McCanns’ lives for ever because they cost them their beloved Madeleine.
They were also mistakes which have since cost them their peace of mind and possibly now, even their safety.
Their decision to leave those children alone has brought with it a retribution that will haunt them every day of their lives.
But as well as having to deal with that, they’re now having to deal with a bunch of foul-mouthed trolls whose threats have become so vile, so dangerous, that Scotland Yard has an 80-page dossier on them.
And the threats aren’t just to Kate and Gerry McCann. Unforgivably, some of them are directed at their nine-year-old twins.
How sick, how twisted, how depraved do you have to be to keep bombarding an already broken family with hateful death threats – threats designed to throw more poison into their already poisoned lives.
The people making these threats are cruel and devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted Madeleine. But they’re also cowards, too scared to say to the McCanns’ faces what they say anonymously on Twitter.
One of these trolls, Brenda Leyland, is a church-going 60-something divorcee who lives in a pretty village in the Home Counties. She looks like a perfectly respectable woman. But of course she isn’t.
She’s a cowardly bully who hides behind her smart front door and spews her bile in secret because she doesn’t have the guts to do it in public.
This piece of work was sending up to 50 texts a day to the McCanns. But when Sky News cameras approached her she wasn’t quite so brave.
She looked like a frightened rabbit (typical). But as she was running away (also typical) she said she thought she was entitled to do what she’d done.
Really? She thinks she’s entitled to threaten, hound and bully the innocent? Is that because her own life is so lonely, so miserable, so poisoned that she wants others to suffer the same. Or is she just a twisted, fecked up bitch who gets her kicks from hurting people.
Well, newsflash for these sickos – you guys aren’t the worst thing that’s ever happened to Kate and Gerry McCann. The very worst thing that could ever happen to them already has. And they will for ever have to live with that. I truly hope all the people in that dossier are prosecuted and I hope Sky continue to confront and identify every one of them. We should all know what a black heart and a twisted mind looks like.
These idiots need to know they can no longer hide behind false names to peddle their bile.
Let’s see how brave and opinionated they are when their evil is made public alongside their names and their faces.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2014, 11:27:40 PM
I felt this part of Carole's opinion piece was more rationally considered:
"Over the years I’ve had a lot to say about Kate and Gerry McCann. Like many people, I was angry at what I believed to be their irresponsibility in leaving young children alone while they went out drinking.
I could never forgive the fact that while holidaying in Portugal they left two-year-old twins and three-year-old Madeleine alone in an unlocked apartment not just for one night, but for many nights – even after Madeleine had cried and asked them not to leave her because she was scared.
And despite the fact there was a 10-quid babysitting service at their resort which they could have used, but chose not to."
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: DCI on October 04, 2014, 11:35:14 PM
These idiots need to know they can no longer hide behind false names to peddle their bile.
Let’s see how brave and opinionated they are when their evil is made public alongside their names and their faces
Very well said Carole 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 04, 2014, 11:38:00 PM
Carole will be in a good position to judge the relative bile from each camp now. I wonder who she will discover are her more vociferous critics - the McCann believers or the "sceptics"? I hope she has her flak jacket on!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 05, 2014, 12:02:03 AM
These idiots need to know they can no longer hide behind false names to peddle their bile.
Let’s see how brave and opinionated they are when their evil is made public alongside their names and their faces
Very well said Carole 8@??)( 8@??)(
Brave and opinionated ? So it's opinions that are the problem, not threats.
You can't shame people into believing something that is palpably false and from the rise in the numbers of new members joining the Facebook groups and new tweeters on #mccann ( I believe Mathew Horne is one ) it seems the MSM, the McCanns and their supporters will just have to get used to it.
One 'hounder' outed is an example. Start targeting tweeters or Facebookers in numbers and it becomes persecution.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 05, 2014, 12:07:14 AM
If you remember what happened at Mr Jones farm:
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 05, 2014, 12:07:55 AM
Evidence definitely exists against Kate and Gerry McCann
October 4, 2014 3:57 PM MST
It's true that you can't trust everything you read and hear in the mainstream media, especially when it's regarding the Madeleine McCann case. Currently the MSM in the UK is running amok with reports about "trolls" and "vile internet attackers" who don't believe in the innocence of the missing tot's parents. This Saturday news report is among many that paint everyone who questions Kate and Gerry McCann with a broad brush, labeling them "trolls" who are "devoid of humanity." In fact, these sources with their "high journalistic standards" are comparing these people to the so-called kidnappers who snatched the child -- even though there is no forensic evidence at all that these intruders exist. Perhaps the most startling lie being told by these news outlets is the lie that "no evidence exists" against the McCann parents. Well, this couldn't be any further from the truth.
The fact of the matter is that Kate and Gerry McCann were declared suspects in Portugal not long after their daughter went missing. That is because a tidal wave of forensic evidence exists against them -- actual DNA evidence as well as circumstantial. As this post points out, the facts are clearly against the doctors McCann. So why is the mainstream media in the UK purposely reporting false information while seemingly abusing everyone who agrees with the factual information they are refusing to publish? It's hard to determine exactly what these media outlets are trying to achieve but, it looks like people are going to have to get their information from either Portugal or the United States if they want truly unbiased and factual details concerning Maddie's disappearance.
What evidence exists against Madeleine McCann's parents?
For starters, there was no physical evidence of an intruder in the McCann's rental apartment -- No DNA, no tracked-in dirt, no fingerprints. Nothing. In fact, when detectives pulled fingerprints from a window that Kate claimed may have been used by the phantom intruder, only her fingerprints could be found. Expert sniffer dogs were brought in to look for evidence, and they did indeed find evidence of blood and human cadaverine -- the compound released by a dead human body. The dogs also alerted to the trunk of the McCann rental car. Curiously enough, the very news outlets who are denying the existence of this evidence, reported on it back when it was new! Kate McCann also notoriously failed to cooperate with police early in the case. She refused to answer at least 48 different questions that were important to finding out what happened to Maddie. She also refused to take polygraph tests. She also failed to search for her daughter, and admitted in her own private diaries that she and Gerry purposely manipulated the media through a publicity campaign to work things out in their favor.
To say that there is no evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann is just plain dishonest, and the public deserves more than that. At the least, the public deserves to not be treated like gullible dullards who lack a strong enough memory to remember all of the once heavily publicized evidence in the case. It may never be known what truly happened to Madeleine McCann, but the fact remains that Kate and Gerry have a lot of explaining to do, but that will likely never happen thanks to the biased media that protects them.
The nature of the crime may not have been ascertained. However what has most definitely been 'ascertained' by the professional police officers working on the case both in SY and in Portugal - is that the parents and their friends can be ruled out as suspects or even persons of interest. And no matter how many threats, myths, disinformation and lies are perpetrated by the vicious internet trolls under discussion - those are the FACTS.
Do you understand the concept of logic.
The nature of the crime has yet to be ascertained, it therefore means precisely that.
It also means accidental death in the apartment cannot be discounted.
As to Redwood he 'believes' Madeleine may have been abducted, but since when is a belief a FACT. He also believes Madeleine may have died in the apartment.
As to the Portuguese, what exactly do they 'believe' benita ?
They, according to mccann supporters aren't cooperating with SY..
As to trolls benita, I know exactly what those are, on here and elsewhere.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 06:56:41 AM
Speak for yourself Stephen - the only reason I am here is because I was so shocked at the appalling treatment which I accidentally discovered was being meted out to the McCann family via the internet. Until that time I had no idea it was happening or that people could be so cruel to the parents of a missing child.
IMO only those people who consider themselves to be perfect human beings won't understand that most folk accept that people make all kinds of human errors when it comes to parenting, and do not agree that they should be persecuted/hounded for the rest of their lives for the apparent 'crime' (in some people's eyes) - of not being a 'perfect parent'.
Parents benita, with even a basic level of common sense don't leave very young children by themselves, unprotected for extended periods in a foreign country in unlocked accommodation.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 06:59:09 AM
Carole Malone (a bit of a "sceptics" hero, I believe for her criticism of the McCanns in the past) gives the trolls both barrels and some more in this article:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-internet-trolls-devoid-4379575#ixzz3FClNRzMi http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-internet-trolls-devoid-4379575#ixzz3FClNRzMi
Madeleine McCann internet trolls are devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted her
Oct 04, 2014 19:57 OPINION BY CAROLEMALONE Sunday Mirror columnist Carole Malone says that whatever your opinions about the McCanns, sending them vile abuse and death threats is cowardly and depraved
Over the years I’ve had a lot to say about Kate and Gerry McCann. Like many people, I was angry at what I believed to be their irresponsibility in leaving young children alone while they went out drinking.
I could never forgive the fact that while holidaying in Portugal they left two-year-old twins and three-year-old Madeleine alone in an unlocked apartment not just for one night, but for many nights – even after Madeleine had cried and asked them not to leave her because she was scared.
And despite the fact there was a 10-quid babysitting service at their resort which they could have used, but chose not to.
These were mistakes that changed the McCanns’ lives for ever because they cost them their beloved Madeleine.
They were also mistakes which have since cost them their peace of mind and possibly now, even their safety.
Their decision to leave those children alone has brought with it a retribution that will haunt them every day of their lives.
But as well as having to deal with that, they’re now having to deal with a bunch of foul-mouthed trolls whose threats have become so vile, so dangerous, that Scotland Yard has an 80-page dossier on them.
And the threats aren’t just to Kate and Gerry McCann. Unforgivably, some of them are directed at their nine-year-old twins.
How sick, how twisted, how depraved do you have to be to keep bombarding an already broken family with hateful death threats – threats designed to throw more poison into their already poisoned lives.
The people making these threats are cruel and devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted Madeleine. But they’re also cowards, too scared to say to the McCanns’ faces what they say anonymously on Twitter.
One of these trolls, Brenda Leyland, is a church-going 60-something divorcee who lives in a pretty village in the Home Counties. She looks like a perfectly respectable woman. But of course she isn’t.
She’s a cowardly bully who hides behind her smart front door and spews her bile in secret because she doesn’t have the guts to do it in public.
This piece of work was sending up to 50 texts a day to the McCanns. But when Sky News cameras approached her she wasn’t quite so brave.
She looked like a frightened rabbit (typical). But as she was running away (also typical) she said she thought she was entitled to do what she’d done.
Really? She thinks she’s entitled to threaten, hound and bully the innocent? Is that because her own life is so lonely, so miserable, so poisoned that she wants others to suffer the same. Or is she just a twisted, fecked up bitch who gets her kicks from hurting people.
Well, newsflash for these sickos – you guys aren’t the worst thing that’s ever happened to Kate and Gerry McCann. The very worst thing that could ever happen to them already has. And they will for ever have to live with that. I truly hope all the people in that dossier are prosecuted and I hope Sky continue to confront and identify every one of them. We should all know what a black heart and a twisted mind looks like.
These idiots need to know they can no longer hide behind false names to peddle their bile.
Let’s see how brave and opinionated they are when their evil is made public alongside their names and their faces.
Has Malone made an analysis of the mccann trolls who have made threats physical or otherwise to other people , including death threats ?
Or don't they count alfred ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 05, 2014, 08:32:42 AM
Carole will be in a good position to judge the relative bile from each camp now. I wonder who she will discover are her more vociferous critics - the McCann believers or the "sceptics"? I hope she has her flak jacket on!
Indeed she will need one, anyone who 'sees the light' and thinks enough is enough very quickly find themselves fair game.
I read that just prior to news of the start of the investigation into the worst of the McCann trolls one of the most dedicated long term offenders had suggested in posts that it was perhaps time to ‘call a halt’ for the sake of the twins. Only to be ridiculed, abused and ostracised by people who are quite happy to continue to endanger two innocent children and keep on abusing their parents.
Weird people.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 08:33:33 AM
Carole Malone (a bit of a "sceptics" hero, I believe for her criticism of the McCanns in the past) gives the trolls both barrels and some more in this article:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-internet-trolls-devoid-4379575#ixzz3FClNRzMi http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-internet-trolls-devoid-4379575#ixzz3FClNRzMi
Madeleine McCann internet trolls are devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted her
Oct 04, 2014 19:57 OPINION BY CAROLEMALONE Sunday Mirror columnist Carole Malone says that whatever your opinions about the McCanns, sending them vile abuse and death threats is cowardly and depraved
Over the years I’ve had a lot to say about Kate and Gerry McCann. Like many people, I was angry at what I believed to be their irresponsibility in leaving young children alone while they went out drinking.
I could never forgive the fact that while holidaying in Portugal they left two-year-old twins and three-year-old Madeleine alone in an unlocked apartment not just for one night, but for many nights – even after Madeleine had cried and asked them not to leave her because she was scared.
And despite the fact there was a 10-quid babysitting service at their resort which they could have used, but chose not to.
These were mistakes that changed the McCanns’ lives for ever because they cost them their beloved Madeleine.
They were also mistakes which have since cost them their peace of mind and possibly now, even their safety.
Their decision to leave those children alone has brought with it a retribution that will haunt them every day of their lives.
But as well as having to deal with that, they’re now having to deal with a bunch of foul-mouthed trolls whose threats have become so vile, so dangerous, that Scotland Yard has an 80-page dossier on them.
And the threats aren’t just to Kate and Gerry McCann. Unforgivably, some of them are directed at their nine-year-old twins.
How sick, how twisted, how depraved do you have to be to keep bombarding an already broken family with hateful death threats – threats designed to throw more poison into their already poisoned lives.
The people making these threats are cruel and devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted Madeleine. But they’re also cowards, too scared to say to the McCanns’ faces what they say anonymously on Twitter.
One of these trolls, Brenda Leyland, is a church-going 60-something divorcee who lives in a pretty village in the Home Counties. She looks like a perfectly respectable woman. But of course she isn’t.
She’s a cowardly bully who hides behind her smart front door and spews her bile in secret because she doesn’t have the guts to do it in public.
This piece of work was sending up to 50 texts a day to the McCanns. But when Sky News cameras approached her she wasn’t quite so brave.
She looked like a frightened rabbit (typical). But as she was running away (also typical) she said she thought she was entitled to do what she’d done.
Really? She thinks she’s entitled to threaten, hound and bully the innocent? Is that because her own life is so lonely, so miserable, so poisoned that she wants others to suffer the same. Or is she just a twisted, fecked up bitch who gets her kicks from hurting people.
Well, newsflash for these sickos – you guys aren’t the worst thing that’s ever happened to Kate and Gerry McCann. The very worst thing that could ever happen to them already has. And they will for ever have to live with that. I truly hope all the people in that dossier are prosecuted and I hope Sky continue to confront and identify every one of them. We should all know what a black heart and a twisted mind looks like.
These idiots need to know they can no longer hide behind false names to peddle their bile.
Let’s see how brave and opinionated they are when their evil is made public alongside their names and their faces.
Did Sweepyface send the McCanns any vile abuse or death threats?
I don't think she did.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 05, 2014, 08:37:23 AM
Has Malone made an analysis of the mccann trolls who have made threats physical or otherwise to other people , including death threats ?
Or don't they count alfred ?
Once again..if anyone feels they have been seriously threatened or abused they can report the actions to the police....so far its only the doubters who have been reported
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 08:39:31 AM
Once again..if anyone feels they have been seriously threatened or abused they can report the actions to the police....so far its only the doubters who have been reported
Did Kate & Gerry report it?
I don't think they did.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 05, 2014, 08:40:24 AM
Did Sweepyface send the McCanns any vile abuse or death threats?
I don't think she did.
I read through a collection of 'sweepy's' vile comments last night - they are still there to be found so just search for them 'cos I ain't linking to any of them - and in my opinion she is a seriously disturbed person as anyone averaging between fifty or sixty tweets a day on the same subject must be. As well as using other social media sites to do the same.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 08:41:38 AM
Indeed she will need one, anyone who 'sees the light' and thinks enough is enough very quickly find themselves fair game.
I read that just prior to news of the start of the investigation into the worst of the McCann trolls one of the most dedicated long term offenders had suggested in posts that it was perhaps time to ‘call a halt’ for the sake of the twins. Only to be ridiculed, abused and ostracised by people who are quite happy to continue to endanger two innocent children and keep on abusing their parents.
Weird people.
Let's not forget the weird people who placed three children in unnecessary danger, night after night.
Then there's the shittes,on both sides who threaten violence against others.
Nice world.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 08:41:53 AM
I read through a collection of 'sweepy's' vile comments last night - they are still there to be found so just search for them 'cos I ain't linking to any of them - and in my opinion she is a seriously disturbed person as anyone averaging between fifty or sixty tweets a day on the same subject must be. As well as using other social media sites to do the same.
She posted vile comments, online, right .
So, what did she send to the McCanns?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 05, 2014, 08:43:03 AM
Do I tweet? do you think I am a bleedin' canary or something? With my vocabulary I would only manage about five words before I ran out of character space 8(>((
I include myself in this comment of course; anonymous internet forum posters are a bunch of saddos imho. If twitter had been called tw..ter no one would use it!
Best Off Topic Post of The Week.
But please don't make a habit of it.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 05, 2014, 08:46:56 AM
The nature of the crime has yet to be ascertained, it therefore means precisely that.
It also means accidental death in the apartment cannot be discounted.
As to Redwood he 'believes' Madeleine may have been abducted, but since when is a belief a FACT. He also believes Madeleine may have died in the apartment.
As to the Portuguese, what exactly do they 'believe' benita ?
They, according to mccann supporters aren't cooperating with SY..
As to trolls benita, I know exactly what those are, on here and elsewhere.
Why are you calling me benita?
I'm sure DCI Redwood has not discounted 'accidental death' in the apartment. As that possibility was mentioned at the same time the information re the intruder who has assaulted many British children in their beds was being aired - logic dictates it was in connection with that person. Logic also dictates that DCI Redwood would not make it crystal clear to the general public that the parents and their friends have been ruled out - if that wasn't a FACT. Only a desperate conspiracy theorist would think differently IMO.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 09:07:31 AM
'Madeleine McCann internet trolls are devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted her.'
So, the Mirror apparently knows that Maddie was abducted, by more than one person!!
Perhaps, rather than popping at trolls, they could just help convert us with the truth that they are privy to.
They could stop the trolling & help free Dr's McCann if they did that.
Why don't they just do that?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 09:12:04 AM
'Madeleine McCann internet trolls are devoid of humanity – much like the people who abducted her.'
So, the Mirror apparently knows that Maddie was abducted.
Perhaps, rather than popping at trolls, they could just help convert us with the truth that they are privy to.
They could stop the trolling & help free Dr's McCann if they did that.
Why don't they just do that?
|
Actually, was this the same paper with an employee called Tony Parsons, a troll, who called the Portuguese 'Sardine Munchers' and other xenophobic terms ?
IMO of course.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 05, 2014, 09:12:22 AM
Actually, was this the same paper with an employee called Tony Parsons, a troll, who called the Portuguese 'Sardine Munchers' and other xenophobic terms ?
IMO of course.
have you reported this to the police
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 09:16:44 AM
Indeed she will need one, anyone who 'sees the light' and thinks enough is enough very quickly find themselves fair game.
I read that just prior to news of the start of the investigation into the worst of the McCann trolls one of the most dedicated long term offenders had suggested in posts that it was perhaps time to ‘call a halt’ for the sake of the twins. Only to be ridiculed, abused and ostracised by people who are quite happy to continue to endanger two innocent children and keep on abusing their parents.
Weird people.
It's depressing when one of these abusers starts to show a shred of humanity, how all the other abusers pile in on top of them. I've seen it happen several times before, most notably when a regular abuser stalked Kate McCann in a shop once and came to the conclusion, after initiating conversation with her and then receiving a hug from her, that she wasn't such an evil woman after all. I remember that went down like a lead balloon with all the other abusers!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 10:48:16 AM
It's depressing when one of these abusers starts to show a shred of humanity, how all the other abusers pile in on top of them. I've seen it happen several times before, most notably when a regular abuser stalked Kate McCann in a shop once and came to the conclusion, after initiating conversation with her and then receiving a hug from her, that she wasn't such an evil woman after all. I remember that went down like a lead balloon with all the other abusers!
Do you condemn the mccann supporter trolls who abuse and threaten others ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 05, 2014, 10:55:09 AM
Give it a rest, please, Stephen. All threats against anyone from anyone will not be tolerated on this Forum. And no one condones them either.
I am trying to be even handed Eleanor.
I didn't say threats had been made from this forum.
However, if Alfred wishes to bring up those threatening the mccanns, it seems only fair to pint out this has been two way traffic, and you know already how I condemn that kind of behaviour.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 05, 2014, 11:19:01 AM
I didn't say threats had been made from this forum.
However, if Alfred wishes to bring up those threatening the mccanns, it seems only fair to pint out this has been two way traffic, and you know already how I condemn that kind of behaviour.
Yes, I know that you condemn this kind of behaviour, Stephen. And well said by you early on. But trying to force people to admit it themselves is a bit pointless.
This Thread is about people trolling The McCanns, and this is vastly well spread, unlike the trolling by McCann Supporters.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 05, 2014, 11:22:00 AM
I didn't say threats had been made from this forum.
However, if Alfred wishes to bring up those threatening the mccanns, it seems only fair to pint out this has been two way traffic, and you know already how I condemn that kind of behaviour.
It's not the same thing at all Stephen. The police are not interested in posters exchanging abuse on forums or people expressing their dislike or even hatred for the McCanns. It is the multitude of threats of violence etc being made against one specific family that is being investigated.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 11:33:36 AM
It's not the same thing at all Stephen. The police are not interested in posters exchanging abuse on forums or people expressing their dislike or even hatred for the McCanns. It is the multitude of threats of violence etc being made against one specific family that is being investigated.
Of course it's in the same frame.
Abuse is still abuse.
As are THREATS.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 05, 2014, 11:40:40 AM
The police investigation is into ''McCann internet trolls''. What is there not to understand in that clear statement. Posters slinging abuse at oneanother on the internet are not part of that remit.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 11:41:18 AM
What abuse was sent to the McCanns?
Anyone know?
Or was Carole Malone just being disingenuous ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 05, 2014, 11:43:02 AM
The police investigation is into ''McCann internet trolls''. What is there not to understand in that clear statement. Posters slinging abuse at oneanother on the internet are not part of that remit.
You know as well as I do, mccann supporters have made threats.
So stop being disingenuous.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 05, 2014, 11:47:35 AM
Evidence definitely exists against Kate and Gerry McCann
October 4, 2014 3:57 PM MST
It's true that you can't trust everything you read and hear in the mainstream media, especially when it's regarding the Madeleine McCann case. Currently the MSM in the UK is running amok with reports about "trolls" and "vile internet attackers" who don't believe in the innocence of the missing tot's parents. This Saturday news report is among many that paint everyone who questions Kate and Gerry McCann with a broad brush, labeling them "trolls" who are "devoid of humanity." In fact, these sources with their "high journalistic standards" are comparing these people to the so-called kidnappers who snatched the child -- even though there is no forensic evidence at all that these intruders exist. Perhaps the most startling lie being told by these news outlets is the lie that "no evidence exists" against the McCann parents. Well, this couldn't be any further from the truth.
The fact of the matter is that Kate and Gerry McCann were declared suspects in Portugal not long after their daughter went missing. That is because a tidal wave of forensic evidence exists against them -- actual DNA evidence as well as circumstantial. As this post points out, the facts are clearly against the doctors McCann. So why is the mainstream media in the UK purposely reporting false information while seemingly abusing everyone who agrees with the factual information they are refusing to publish? It's hard to determine exactly what these media outlets are trying to achieve but, it looks like people are going to have to get their information from either Portugal or the United States if they want truly unbiased and factual details concerning Maddie's disappearance.
What evidence exists against Madeleine McCann's parents?
For starters, there was no physical evidence of an intruder in the McCann's rental apartment -- No DNA, no tracked-in dirt, no fingerprints. Nothing. In fact, when detectives pulled fingerprints from a window that Kate claimed may have been used by the phantom intruder, only her fingerprints could be found. Expert sniffer dogs were brought in to look for evidence, and they did indeed find evidence of blood and human cadaverine -- the compound released by a dead human body. The dogs also alerted to the trunk of the McCann rental car. Curiously enough, the very news outlets who are denying the existence of this evidence, reported on it back when it was new! Kate McCann also notoriously failed to cooperate with police early in the case. She refused to answer at least 48 different questions that were important to finding out what happened to Maddie. She also refused to take polygraph tests. She also failed to search for her daughter, and admitted in her own private diaries that she and Gerry purposely manipulated the media through a publicity campaign to work things out in their favor.
To say that there is no evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann is just plain dishonest, and the public deserves more than that. At the least, the public deserves to not be treated like gullible dullards who lack a strong enough memory to remember all of the once heavily publicized evidence in the case. It may never be known what truly happened to Madeleine McCann, but the fact remains that Kate and Gerry have a lot of explaining to do, but that will likely never happen thanks to the biased media that protects them.
You should know, you're down with the dogooders, do tell, and don't say Bennett, that's old hat.
I absolutely love the idea that any police force would go to the trouble, and expense, when budgets are already tight of DNA testing envelopes just because the contents were abusive towards the McCanns.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 12:38:12 PM
It's true that you can't trust everything you read and hear in the mainstream media, especially when it's regarding the Madeleine McCann case. Currently the MSM in the UK is running amok with reports about "trolls" and "vile internet attackers" who don't believe in the innocence of the missing tot's parents.
'The messages were among those posted by internet trolls who wrongly believe that Kate and Gerry, both 46, had some involvement in the disappearance of their three-year-old daughter Madeleine in Portugal in 2007.
The couple, who were cleared by police from any part in their daughter's disappearance, have been told by trolls to 'burn in hell'.
I absolutely love the idea that any police force would go to the trouble, and expense, when budgets are already tight of DNA testing envelopes just because the contents were abusive towards the McCanns.
If they've been sent hate mail & threats, fine, investigate that, why wouldn't they.
But someone posting on an open forum 'I really don't like them very much & I hope they die in an horrific lawnmower accident', really isn't the same thing.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 12:51:52 PM
I don't post on twitter or facebook or anywhere else for that matter, only here.
I had to have a look at the #mccann when this story broke though & #AskBrunt was getting a pounding then.
Looks like he still is, poor guy.
He should report them all for cyber bullying.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 05, 2014, 12:53:13 PM
I think your right WS. Better listen to Malone - how many leads and persons of interest to keep them guessing @)(++(* The McCanns and they're friends are not suspects. If the unreliable dogs find anything then see the change 8((()*/
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 05, 2014, 01:03:04 PM
If they've been sent hate mail & threats, fine, investigate that, why wouldn't they.
But someone posting on an open forum 'I really don't like them very much & I hope they die in an horrific lawnmower accident', really isn't the same thing.
Threats should always be dealt with by the relevant authorities and but to suggest that this is what all sceptics do is clearly nonsense.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 05, 2014, 02:44:05 PM
Very wise; a man after my own heart 8(>(( It is in "The Burglars Manual of Tactics" how easy it is to find address from a facebook account!
If it isn't it should be Alice. However I have been told you will definitely find it in The Big Book of Internet Intimidation, the Christmas 2013 edition I believe 8)-)))
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 05, 2014, 02:54:52 PM
I don't do facebook or twitter or anything like that, because I'm a bit of an unsociable b*stard.
We had worked that out 8(>(( No offence meant like 8(0(*
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 05, 2014, 03:03:05 PM
It is FaceBook that is the danger to privacy because far too many people have too much to say about themselves. This is sad because it should be safe, but it isn't.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 05, 2014, 03:40:12 PM
I don't do facebook or twitter or anything like that, because I'm a bit of an unsociable b*stard.
There are lots of reasons for being unsociable. I sometimes don't see a soul for days on end. But I could if I wanted to sit around and natter about inconsequential things that don't even remotely interest me.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 09, 2014, 01:59:12 PM
There can be little doubt that we live in a very sick society when abuse such as that meted out to the McCann family is the norm for the parents of murdered or missing children who are active in campaigning; in Sarah Payne’s case against paedophiles; in the Drs McCann case in getting the official investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance reopened.
Sara Payne's Facebook campaign page targeted by internet trolls
Internet trolls have attempted to sabotage a Facebook page set up by Sara Payne, the mother of murdered schoolgirl Sarah Payne.
Sara has campaigned tirelessly to protect children from paedophiles since her eight year old daughter was abducted and killed by paedophile Roy Whiting.
Now, the Facebook page she set up has been targeted by 'trolls' writing vile messages and suggesting that sickening paedophiles knew where Sara's supporters lived and were coming for their children.
One was posted in the name of a disgraced former teacher Nigel Oldfield who has served time for downloading images of child abuse. It read: "Paedogeddon - they are organised and they are coming for your kids!!!"
The Sun reports that Oldfield 'refused to deny' posting messages on the site when confronted at his friend's house in Rotherham, South Yorkshire. Sara Payne has complained to the police in past about alleged harassment from him.
She told the paper: "I'm fed up being bullied like this. This is a vile attempt to close down my Facebook page. Men like Oldfield don't want campaigns like mine because as more victims are empowered, more paedophiles will have their secrets exposed."
Facebook says it has very clear rules in place with regard to trolling and there is 'no place' for it on the site, adding that it was against the sites terms and conditions to 'intimidate or harass' other people.
Sara was awarded an MBE in the New Year Honours list in 2008, and was made 'Victims Champion' in 2009 by then Justice Secretary Jack Straw for her work with those affected by sexual abuse. In 2009, she suffered a life threatening stroke and was given a 50/50 chance of survival, and was also hospitalised in 2011 after collapsing at home.
She and former husband Michael have four surviving children. Little Sarah was abducted in 2000 whilst playing in a field near her grandparents home in West Sussex, England. Her body was found in a field 15 miles away 16 days later. Roy Whiting was sentenced to life for her abduction and murder.
What a terrible thing to do - do you despair of internet trolls? Should there be stiffer penalties for those who do this kind of thing? http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2012/04/20/sara-payne-faceboook-campaign-page-targeted-by-sick-internet-trolls/
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 09, 2014, 02:19:18 PM
Trolling on social media: What does the law say? By Amelia Butterly Newsbeat reporter 6 October 2014 From the section Technology Brenda Leyland was said to use the handle @sweepyface on Twitter Brenda Leyland, the 63-year-old woman accused of trolling the family of Madeleine McCann, has been found dead in a hotel. Her body was found days after she was confronted outside her home by a Sky News reporter. Mrs Leyland's Twitter account - which has been deleted - did not directly target the McCanns, who have "no significant presence" on social media. Many of her messages had the hashtag #mccanns, making them easy to find. One tweet read: "#mccann To Kate and Gerry, you will be hated by millions for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!" What is 'trolling'? Broadly speaking, trolling covers a variety of social media posts, from cheeky provocation, right through to abuse and violent threats. Dr Arthur Cassidy, a psychologist who specialises in social media, said typically, trolls seek and enjoy a response from their victims. He said Mrs Leyland's Twitter messages had been "unusual". "Her whole repertoire of trolling is slightly different from those of well-seasoned trolls because of her uniqueness and the way she has done this," he said. "It would signify to me that she has been quite a novice at this." What kinds of messages could be prosecuted? Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter Madeleine went missing in 2007 while on holiday in Portugal According to the Crown Prosecution Service, social media messages which "specifically target an individual or individuals and which may constitute harassment or stalking" could be a criminal offence. Questions have come up about whether or not Mrs Leyland's messages could be considered to "specifically target" the McCann family. Posts which also make a "credible threat of violence" against a person or property, may also be prosecuted. There is also a possibility of "grossly offensive, indecent, obscene or false" messages also falling foul of the law. People under the age of 18 are unlikely to be prosecuted as children "may not appreciate the potential harm and seriousness of their communications". What about freedom of speech? Brenda Leyland's body was found days after she was confronted outside her home by a Sky News reporter The CPS advises a "high threshold" for prosecuting social media users under the Malicious Communications Act 1988. "Just because the content expressed in the communication is in bad taste, controversial or unpopular, and may cause offence to individuals or a specific community, this is not in itself sufficient reason to engage the criminal law," the guidelines add. Posts must be more than "banter or humour" for prosecution to go ahead. What are the potential penalties for trolling? Peter Nunn was found guilty of sending abusive tweets Last month Peter Nunn, 33, from Bristol, was sent to prison for 18 weeks after being found guilty of trolling Labour politician Stella Creasy over her campaign to put Jane Austen on the £10 note. He sent what were viewed as "menacing" messages to the Walthamstow MP. The judge also imposed a restraining order, preventing him from contacting either Ms Creasy or Caroline Criado-Perez, who began the Jane Austen campaign. In 2011, Sean Duffy from Reading was also jailed for 18 weeks after he mocked dead children online. Liam Stacey of Pontypridd was sentenced to 56 days in prison after he made racist remarks on Twitter about footballer Fabrice Muamba. Follow @BBCNewsbeat on Twitter and Radio1Newsbeat on YouTube
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/29512425
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 09, 2014, 03:06:27 PM
Trolling on social media: What does the law say? By Amelia Butterly Newsbeat reporter 6 October 2014 From the section Technology Brenda Leyland was said to use the handle @sweepyface on Twitter Brenda Leyland, the 63-year-old woman accused of trolling the family of Madeleine McCann, has been found dead in a hotel. Her body was found days after she was confronted outside her home by a Sky News reporter. Mrs Leyland's Twitter account - which has been deleted - did not directly target the McCanns, who have "no significant presence" on social media. Many of her messages had the hashtag #mccanns, making them easy to find. One tweet read: "#mccann To Kate and Gerry, you will be hated by millions for the rest of your miserable, evil, conniving lives, have a nice day!" What is 'trolling'? Broadly speaking, trolling covers a variety of social media posts, from cheeky provocation, right through to abuse and violent threats. Dr Arthur Cassidy, a psychologist who specialises in social media, said typically, trolls seek and enjoy a response from their victims. He said Mrs Leyland's Twitter messages had been "unusual". "Her whole repertoire of trolling is slightly different from those of well-seasoned trolls because of her uniqueness and the way she has done this," he said. "It would signify to me that she has been quite a novice at this." What kinds of messages could be prosecuted? Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter Madeleine went missing in 2007 while on holiday in Portugal According to the Crown Prosecution Service, social media messages which "specifically target an individual or individuals and which may constitute harassment or stalking" could be a criminal offence. Questions have come up about whether or not Mrs Leyland's messages could be considered to "specifically target" the McCann family. Posts which also make a "credible threat of violence" against a person or property, may also be prosecuted. There is also a possibility of "grossly offensive, indecent, obscene or false" messages also falling foul of the law. People under the age of 18 are unlikely to be prosecuted as children "may not appreciate the potential harm and seriousness of their communications". What about freedom of speech? Brenda Leyland's body was found days after she was confronted outside her home by a Sky News reporter The CPS advises a "high threshold" for prosecuting social media users under the Malicious Communications Act 1988. "Just because the content expressed in the communication is in bad taste, controversial or unpopular, and may cause offence to individuals or a specific community, this is not in itself sufficient reason to engage the criminal law," the guidelines add. Posts must be more than "banter or humour" for prosecution to go ahead. What are the potential penalties for trolling? Peter Nunn was found guilty of sending abusive tweets Last month Peter Nunn, 33, from Bristol, was sent to prison for 18 weeks after being found guilty of trolling Labour politician Stella Creasy over her campaign to put Jane Austen on the £10 note. He sent what were viewed as "menacing" messages to the Walthamstow MP. The judge also imposed a restraining order, preventing him from contacting either Ms Creasy or Caroline Criado-Perez, who began the Jane Austen campaign. In 2011, Sean Duffy from Reading was also jailed for 18 weeks after he mocked dead children online. Liam Stacey of Pontypridd was sentenced to 56 days in prison after he made racist remarks on Twitter about footballer Fabrice Muamba. Follow @BBCNewsbeat on Twitter and Radio1Newsbeat on YouTube
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/29512425
A pimply schoolchild making inappropriate communications using social media ‘for a laugh’ can possibly be excused on the grounds that they don’t know any better.
Adults doing so, then joining organised campaigns directed at particular individuals are indulging in unacceptable behaviour.
The person printing out a hateful missive in green ink has long been considered to display aberrant behaviour; the anonymous person using social media to post hate and vitriol, particularly the ones who join a pack, are no different from the dysfunctional poison pen writer of old.
It is beyond my understanding that there are those who condone the treatment of the McCanns and I firmly believe that the time is long past when action should have been taken against them if it was determined the law had been broken.
We have all viewed communications which could be considered to fall into that category.
The compilation of the dossier containing examples is long overdue but imo should have been carried out by the police years ago.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 09, 2014, 03:24:41 PM
A pimply schoolchild making inappropriate communications using social media ‘for a laugh’ can possibly be excused on the grounds that they don’t know any better.
Adults doing so, then joining organised campaigns directed at particular individuals are indulging in unacceptable behaviour.
The person printing out a hateful missive in green ink has long been considered to display aberrant behaviour; the anonymous person using social media to post hate and vitriol, particularly the ones who join a pack, are no different from the dysfunctional poison pen writer of old.
It is beyond my understanding that there are those who condone the treatment of the McCanns and I firmly believe that the time is long past when action should have been taken against them if it was determined the law had been broken.
We have all viewed communications which could be considered to fall into that category.
The compilation of the dossier containing examples is long overdue but imo should have been carried out by the police years ago.
I agree. Too little too late, as seen in many cases of abuse. Hopefully people will now take note of the possible consequences of their actions, when using social Media sites to attack innocent victims.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 09, 2014, 04:08:20 PM
I have often wondered what the reaction would be if (God forbid!) Kate or Gerry were to be pushed over the edge.
I hope I never find out ...
Silly me.
Just answered my own question.
We'd be swamped with a tidal wave of nauseous bilge about the weight of guilt ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on October 09, 2014, 05:00:24 PM
I have often wondered what the reaction would be if (God forbid!) Kate or Gerry were to be pushed over the edge.
I hope I never find out ...
Silly me.
Just answered my own question.
We'd be swamped with a tidal wave of nauseous bilge about the weight of guilt ...
And perhaps that'd be true.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 09, 2014, 05:16:05 PM
CBS News 5th October 2007.
KM: "It really isn't easy," coping. "Some days are better than others. ... There's days when you think, 'I can't do this anymore,' and you just want to press a button, and we're all gone, and it's all finished, and we're all together and gone. Wherever. But you can't, you know. Just occasionally you'll have a -- if you're having a really bad day, which we do. And you can't help but think that."
I have often wondered what the reaction would be if (God forbid!) Kate or Gerry were to be pushed over the edge.
I hope I never find out ...
Silly me.
Just answered my own question.
We'd be swamped with a tidal wave of nauseous bilge about the weight of guilt ...
It would certainly take the fun out of it for the "sceptics" if the objects of their hatred ceased to exist. Sadly I have a feeling that the McCanns will have trolls to deal with for the rest of their lives, even if and when an abductor is apprehended and banged up. If the parents of April Jones still receive anonymous abuse, what hope for the McCanns?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 09, 2014, 05:40:39 PM
It would certainly take the fun out of it for the "sceptics" if the objects of their hatred ceased to exist. Sadly I have a feeling that the McCanns will have trolls to deal with for the rest of their lives, even if and when an abductor is apprehended and banged up. If the parents of April Jones still receive anonymous abuse, what hope for the McCanns?
Sadly, I think you are right.
Using the internet is just too convenient for these anonymous cowards ... they are really running the risk of ruining the privilege of free speech for all of us in the future. They may be the vehicle for draconian legislation or controls which will be used to prevent true whistle blowers with something of value to put into the public domain to be curtailed. All so that spiteful, nasty games can be played out.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 09, 2014, 05:46:56 PM
It would certainly take the fun out of it for the "sceptics" if the objects of their hatred ceased to exist. Sadly I have a feeling that the McCanns will have trolls to deal with for the rest of their lives, even if and when an abductor is apprehended and banged up. If the parents of April Jones still receive anonymous abuse, what hope for the McCanns?
Even if Madeleine were to be found alive, some 'sceptics' would make it their business to try to poison the relationship between Madeleine and her family ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 09, 2014, 05:54:37 PM
Even if Madeleine were to be found alive, some 'sceptics' would make it their business to try to poison the relationship between Madeleine and her family ...
Which 'sceptics'?
Any in particular or were you just trying to demonise the enemy on the whole?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 09, 2014, 06:01:00 PM
Any in particular or were you just trying to demonise the enemy on the whole?
Well if we turn this on its head, hands up those who think the supporters will pack up their tents and go home should Madeleine be found alive and well. Nah! they will just drift off elsewhere to exhibit their lack of tolerance and boast of their high intellects.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 09, 2014, 06:04:38 PM
Well if we turn this on its head, hands up those who think the supporters will pack up their tents and go home should Madeleine be found alive and well. Nah! they will just drift off elsewhere to exhibit their lack of tolerance and boast of their high intellects.
Conceding defeat with ill-grace?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 09, 2014, 06:06:04 PM
Even if Madeleine were to be found alive, some 'sceptics' would make it their business to try to poison the relationship between Madeleine and her family ...
Not only that. I believe there would be a petition claiming that is not her and urging the MPs to DNA test her. And then if it was proven that it is really her there would be a petition urging the MPs to investigate the McCanns for hiding her..
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 09, 2014, 11:10:30 PM
It's very obvious that they're now digging to corroborate the dog alerts.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Moderator on October 10, 2014, 12:02:50 PM
Please keep to the topic headings as posts which stray are liable to be remove or reassigned to other threads.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 11, 2014, 06:59:52 PM
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 11, 2014, 09:08:27 PM
What made Kate and Gerry McCann the object of so much anger?
The thing all parents dread, the McCanns experienced. Perhaps it is their defiance in the face of such dismal fortune that provokes their abusers
Deborah Orr The Guardian, Friday 10 October 2014
It’s been more than seven years since Kate and Gerry McCann informed the British media that their four-year-old, Madeleine, had gone missing from her bed in a holiday resort in Portugal. Their hope was that publicity would help them to find their daughter. It didn’t. It hasn’t. But still the headlines come.
The latest of many disturbing postscripts to this disturbing story is the death of 63-year-old Brenda Leyland. Her body was found in a hotel room in Leicester a few days after a reporter from Sky News doorstepped her. Film was broadcast of Leyland reacting to Martin Brunt’s suggestion that she was one of a number of people whose abusive messages about the McCanns had been handed to the police. Leyland’s high-profile exposure has, inevitably, been directly linked to her suicide.
One is not supposed to think of “Twitter trolls” as fragile. But this one was, apparently. Her anonymous tweets talked tough. They proclaimed her hatred of the McCanns. She took particular umbrage to what she saw as the couple’s publicity-seeking behaviour. There’s sad irony in the fact that, when publicity found Leyland, it seems to have quickly destroyed her.
Maybe Leyland knew that, were she to be subjected to a fraction of the notoriety that has been piled on the McCanns, she would indeed be destroyed. Maybe that’s why she saw the couple as so different to her that she could not summon any sympathy, only hostility.
Why Madeleine’s disappearance attracted so much interest has never been much of a puzzle. Any parent who has lost their child, even for a few minutes, is familiar with their own panic-stricken voice of fear, asking that Grimm’s fairy tale question: “What if she’s gone? What if you never see her again?” The thing all parents dread, the McCanns experienced. Why this, the most dismal of ill fortune, made the McCanns, for so many people, the object of suspicion, contempt and anger, rather than empathy – that’s a more difficult question to answer.
It’s often said that the McCanns attracted criticism because they were middle-class – with a sense of entitlement that made them not just careless about their own daughter’s welfare but also expectant that the world would help them get her back. Essentially though, that criticism really amounts to this: “We don’t like the McCanns because they clearly didn’t live their lives for ever in fear that the worst could easily happen to them.” What’s more, when the worst did come, the couple remained hopeful, purposeful, even defiant.
What really irked people about the McCanns, from the beginning, was essentially their massive reserves of emotional resilience. Kate McCann was criticised for not looking broken – for brushing her hair and putting on makeup. Gerry McCann raised eyebrows because he remained articulate. They exercised, which absolutely scandalised people. Sure, that was a sensible thing to do. But what kind of monster is sensible under such pressure? Even that decision in those first hours – not to wait passively for news, but actively to go out and create it – this pair chose fight, not flight, from the start.
The McCanns continue to fight. Many people think they should have given up long ago. Some perverse people even argue that Leyland’s death is on the conscience of the McCanns, because they won’t shrug their shoulders and accept that some people think very, very badly of them. The McCanns say their twin sons [sic] are old enough now to see all the awful things that are said about their parents. They cannot accept that this is something they have to put up with. No enemy is large enough to intimidate the couple, not even the vastness of the internet.
By contrast, there’s no flight more complete than suicide. Is that why Leyland and others have developed such great animus against the McCanns? Do people simply find the sheer stubborn courage of these people so unbelievable that they mistrust it, even despise it? Can the root of all this McCann hatred be people seeing two parents roaring for justice, attacking those who would deny them it, and thinking: “I couldn’t do that, no way. But I can’t accept they’re better than me because they can. I prefer to believe they’re worse.”
Many people, when discussing trolling on the internet, see it as a manifestation of misogyny. Others, who don’t like this idea, insist that women can be trolls – vicious trolls – as well. Leyland, her choice of hate figures and her awful demise appear to prove their point far more graphically than anyone would wish.
Yet if you start thinking of trolls as people who resent strong people because they make them feel inadequate, then you see that trolling would indeed be an activity particularly attractive to misogynists, who prefer to think of women as weak precisely so they can think of themselves as strong by comparison.
The McCanns were strong enough to make sure that their own voices – not the stereotyped voice of the universal grieving parent – were heard. Trolls gain strength from making their voices heard too, but they’re not strong enough to speak in their own name. Expose a troll’s name, and you expose their fears and vulnerability. Such people, it appears, may sometimes be far more fearful and vulnerable than the people who anger them so greatly.
By some terms kate mccann and her comments are those of a troll, and you know the ones I mean,as they have been put in the public arena.
So you now think that Kate McCann is a troll?
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Really?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on October 12, 2014, 12:09:55 PM
By some terms kate mccann and her comments are those of a troll, and you know the ones I mean,as they have been put in the public arena.
What's your definition of a troll?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 12, 2014, 02:28:58 PM
Rainne the classic troll with eclectic taste to post bile about Muslims – Jews – Mormons; in fact anyone who took her fancy is not alone. His/her saving grace may be that the lunacy was confined to its gang of one ... leaving the organised trolling to the real bullies of this world pretending concern for "maddy".
Doesn’t take much to get the McCann trolls going though.
Anyone old enough to remember the BBC CW programme which was hate bombed by the troof seekers, you know the ones who express anxiety for Madeleine?
Someone must recall the spite directed at the programme launching the request for information about Madeleine McCann. The troofseekers are really concerned about what happened to that little girl ... absolutely desperate.
Nobody here recall the campaign to get the broadcast pulled or the campaign to tie up the phone lines with their prepared scripts … just in case there was someone out there who might have had valuable information for the police trying to get through. Must have forgotten their stated aims of being all for Madeleine for a couple of seconds ... which is how they justify their trolling of her family. So not really for a couple of seconds then ... much more like over seven years.
Twitter trolls attack the McCanns with sick messages and taunts in run-up to Crimewatch appeal
The parents received a torrent of abuse on Twitter and on internet forums One troll tweeted a picture of the McCanns as the Moors murderers Police say they are monitoring internet for abusive messages
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 12, 2014, 02:35:30 PM
Exactly Brietta
And you have only to see the frisson of excitement going through some of the sites when a newspaper allows comments on an article even loosly related to the McCanns. And the "call to arms" to post before comments are closed down.
Followed by crowing about how much support their views have from "the general public". Laughable, if it was not so tragic.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 12, 2014, 03:02:27 PM
And you have only to see the frisson of excitement going through some of the sites when a newspaper allows comments on an article even loosly related to the McCanns. And the "call to arms" to post before comments are closed down.
Followed by crowing about how much support their views have from "the general public". Laughable, if it was not so tragic.
I think it is why the dossier which has been presented to the police has met with so many positive write ups in the press.
Journalists are very well aware of the organised campaigns targeting comments on any article remotely connected to the McCanns; indeed some newspapers if they do not vet comments before printing just cancel the comment facility on any such article.
I believe the press are more aware of the nature and volume of abuse directed at the family than they are given credit for.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 12, 2014, 03:14:20 PM
Rainne the classic troll with eclectic taste to post bile about Muslims – Jews – Mormons; in fact anyone who took her fancy is not alone. His/her saving grace may be that the lunacy was confined to its gang of one ... leaving the organised trolling to the real bullies of this world pretending concern for "maddy".
Doesn’t take much to get the McCann trolls going though.
Anyone old enough to remember the BBC CW programme which was hate bombed by the troof seekers, you know the ones who express anxiety for Madeleine?
Someone must recall the spite directed at the programme launching the request for information about Madeleine McCann. The troofseekers are really concerned about what happened to that little girl ... absolutely desperate.
Nobody here recall the campaign to get the broadcast pulled or the campaign to tie up the phone lines with their prepared scripts … just in case there was someone out there who might have had valuable information for the police trying to get through. Must have forgotten their stated aims of being all for Madeleine for a couple of seconds ... which is how they justify their trolling of her family. So not really for a couple of seconds then ... much more like over seven years.
Twitter trolls attack the McCanns with sick messages and taunts in run-up to Crimewatch appeal
The parents received a torrent of abuse on Twitter and on internet forums One troll tweeted a picture of the McCanns as the Moors murderers Police say they are monitoring internet for abusive messages
The linked article posted is dated 14th October 2013.........and you have emboldened the statement ;
"Police say they are monitoring internet for abusive messages."
So the dossier producers reported those they themselves consider are "breaking the law" to the authorities already monitoring the internet and presumably able to decide for themselves who is or isn`t breaking the law............and apparently have been doing so for at least the last year!
How on earth did this one person from the vigilante list come to be singled out for confrontation by Sky news when the Police had not done so themselves.............and may not have ever done so?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 12, 2014, 03:28:34 PM
I think it is why the dossier which has been presented to the police has met with so many positive write ups in the press.
Journalists are very well aware of the organised campaigns targeting comments on any article remotely connected to the McCanns; indeed some newspapers if they do not vet comments before printing just cancel the comment facility on any such article.
I believe the press are more aware of the nature and volume of abuse directed at the family than they are given credit for.
Do you think that the "positive write ups" in the press indicate more random doorsteppings could be on the cards then ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 12, 2014, 04:58:23 PM
The linked article posted is dated 14th October 2013.........and you have emboldened the statement ;
"Police say they are monitoring internet for abusive messages."
So the dossier producers reported those they themselves consider are "breaking the law" to the authorities already monitoring the internet and presumably able to decide for themselves who is or isn`t breaking the law............and apparently have been doing so for at least the last year!
How on earth did this one person from the vigilante list come to be singled out for confrontation by Sky news when the Police had not done so themselves.............and may not have ever done so?
Yes, I am aware of the date of the article.
I am also aware that I could have posted articles about the campaigns of abuse directed at the McCanns for any day from the years 2012 – 2011 -2010 – 2009 – 2008 – 2007 not forgetting 2014.
Seven years of hate directed at Madeleine’s parents … and now Madeleine’s brother and sister.
Anyone who can condone or try to excuse such abuse certainly needs to examine their conscience very carefully indeed. Anyone who indulges in such abuse should be dealt with by the full force of the law.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 12, 2014, 06:22:19 PM
I am also aware that I could have posted articles about the campaigns of abuse directed at the McCanns for any day from the years 2012 – 2011 -2010 – 2009 – 2008 – 2007 not forgetting 2014.
Seven years of hate directed at Madeleine’s parents … and now Madeleine’s brother and sister.
Anyone who can condone or try to excuse such abuse certainly needs to examine their conscience very carefully indeed. Anyone who indulges in such abuse should be dealt with by the full force of the law.
Leave out the emotive distractions away from the point that you have accepted in your post that the police were already aware of any potential law breaking with regard to the McCann family because they were monitoring the internet themselves.
Perhaps it will lead to dealings with by the full force of the law..............but how do you link this with your dossier via Sky News pre-empting this by selecting a target or targets themselves in advance?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 12, 2014, 06:38:28 PM
I'd have hoped that people might have stood back to reflect on their posts, but seemingly not.
Trolls and abusers tend not to be the most reflective of internet users.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 12, 2014, 07:01:30 PM
After 7 years of blaming and abusing one wonders if the attraction of participating in this behaviour will ever wear off for the holier-than-thou online commentariat? It doesn't look like it does it? One has to wonder what sort of enjoyment is gained from this sort of behaviour, because clearly if it wasn't enjoyable it wouldn't have gone on for so long. It is of course dressed up by the "sceptics" as some sort of holy crusade for justice but I think that's dishonest bullshit.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 12, 2014, 07:31:42 PM
Leave out the emotive distractions away from the point that you have accepted in your post that the police were already aware of any potential law breaking with regard to the McCann family because they were monitoring the internet themselves.
Perhaps it will lead to dealings with by the full force of the law..............but how do you link this with your dossier via Sky News pre-empting this by selecting a target or targets themselves in advance?
Check out the title of the thread: you call over seven years of the most disgusting and vile attacks on the family of a missing child carried out by individuals who are little more than pack animals “emotive distractions”.
Just as it took an open front page letter addressed to the PM to get Madeleine’s case reviewed because nothing else worked … perhaps it will take the dossier which you call the ‘vigilante list’ to get some official action on those who have been breaking the law with impunity, some for over seven years now.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 12, 2014, 08:22:33 PM
Check out the title of the thread: you call over seven years of the most disgusting and vile attacks on the family of a missing child carried out by individuals who are little more than pack animals “emotive distractions”.
Just as it took an open front page letter addressed to the PM to get Madeleine’s case reviewed because nothing else worked … perhaps it will take the dossier which you call the ‘vigilante list’ to get some official action on those who have been breaking the law with impunity, some for over seven years now.
Your glib use of emotive distractions to deflect is really quite cynical........and employed because you cannot reconcile the pre-emptive dossier waving at selected targets by the press with trying to claim the high moral ground in terms of upholding the law.
You acknowledge that the police were already monitoring the internet and are therefore aware of alleged "law breaking", but presumably if "official action" doesn`t shape up to your liking , it`s o.k. to do it yourself via Sky News?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 12, 2014, 08:49:04 PM
If you go on Twitter and make abusive posts then you must expect to get abusive answers.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 12, 2014, 08:51:00 PM
Your glib use of emotive distractions to deflect is really quite cynical........and employed because you cannot reconcile the pre-emptive dossier waving at selected targets by the press with trying to claim the high moral ground in terms of upholding the law.
You acknowledge that the police were already monitoring the internet and are therefore aware of alleged "law breaking", but presumably if "official action" doesn`t shape up to your liking , it`s o.k. to do it yourself via Sky News?
Fact – a family has been under horrendous attack from anonymous cowards on the internet … trolls.
Fact – these cowardly trolls have been indulging obsessively in this pastime for over seven years.
Fact – next to nothing has been done by the police to curb these vicious trolls.
Fact – members of the public have been expressing concern about these attacks since 2007.
“jbobs 28 10 2007, Although I agree with some of your points fanoulla, I still think that whatever the media or their families have said, it does not justify the attacks on Gerry and Kate. Some truly wicked accusations have been said about them whilst they are going through what no parent would ever want to face. I can understand why people don't like them but I don't think some people that have said such awful things (media and the public) are very likeable people either. I don't agree that the McCanns want alot, I think having Madeleine back is the only thing that they want.” http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/9852913-cruelty-aimed-mccanns-3-print.html
Fact – concerned members of the public compiled a dossier on the worst of these trolls.
Fact – the dossier was handed to the police and we are told people will be investigated.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 12, 2014, 11:07:12 PM
Excellent article about McCann abusers in the Express here http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/camilla-tominey/521746/Camilla-Tominey-McCanns-trolls-wake-up-selfies-the-real-Prince-Phillip
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 12, 2014, 11:08:23 PM
Fact – a family has been under horrendous attack from anonymous cowards on the internet … trolls.
Fact – these cowardly trolls have been indulging obsessively in this pastime for over seven years.
Fact – next to nothing has been done by the police to curb these vicious trolls.
Fact – members of the public have been expressing concern about these attacks since 2007.
“jbobs 28 10 2007, Although I agree with some of your points fanoulla, I still think that whatever the media or their families have said, it does not justify the attacks on Gerry and Kate. Some truly wicked accusations have been said about them whilst they are going through what no parent would ever want to face. I can understand why people don't like them but I don't think some people that have said such awful things (media and the public) are very likeable people either. I don't agree that the McCanns want alot, I think having Madeleine back is the only thing that they want.” http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/9852913-cruelty-aimed-mccanns-3-print.html
Fact – concerned members of the public compiled a dossier on the worst of these trolls.
Fact – the dossier was handed to the police and we are told people will be investigated.
There is nothing in your post which addresses the principle of anonymous dossier compilers, along with Sky News selecting, for an undisclosed reason, a particular "target" whilst pontificating to others about morals and the rule of law.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 12, 2014, 11:11:13 PM
There is nothing in your post which addresses the principle of anonymous dossier compilers, along with Sky News selecting, for an undisclosed reason, a particular "target" whilst pontificating to others about morals and the rule of law.
Is it illegal or immoral to expose online abuse in your view?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 12, 2014, 11:24:44 PM
There is nothing in your post which addresses the principle of anonymous dossier compilers, along with Sky News selecting, for an undisclosed reason, a particular "target" whilst pontificating to others about morals and the rule of law.
Well the coroner may ask and her questions have to be answered. Then of course someone might decide to invoke RIPA 2000. That would sure lob the cat in the kitty litter. 8(>(( *&*%£
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 12, 2014, 11:32:40 PM
Is it illegal or immoral to expose online abuse in your view?
Apparently the authorities/police were already aware of and monitoring the alleged online abuse.......... It was therefore already exposed.
It is for those not in "authority" ..........those who took it upon themselves to conspire to research and target an individual in the way they did, to consider whether their own behaviour was immoral or illegal, in my view.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 12, 2014, 11:45:40 PM
There is nothing in your post which addresses the principle of anonymous dossier compilers, along with Sky News selecting, for an undisclosed reason, a particular "target" whilst pontificating to others about morals and the rule of law.
Anonymous dossier compilers would not exist were it not for the cowardly trolls providing a surfeit of material for them to compile.
There would be no anonymous dossier compilers if the anonymous cowards who have made it their business to troll the McCann family and others were unable to do so with impunity.
As long as there are people devoid of any concept of moral rectitude which enables them to behave like savages there will be people around to report their illegal activities.
As long as there are people who have taken it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner to hound the family of a missing child there will be investigative reporters around to do their job and investigate their activities.
What is your problem with that?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 12, 2014, 11:49:42 PM
Anonymous dossier compilers would not exist were it not for the cowardly trolls providing a surfeit of material for them to compile.
There would be no anonymous dossier compilers if the anonymous cowards who have made it their business to troll the McCann family and others were unable to do so with impunity.
As long as there are people devoid of any concept of moral rectitude which enables them to behave like savages there will be people around to report their illegal activities.
As long as there are people who have taken it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner to hound the family of a missing child there will be investigative reporters around to do their job and investigate their activities.
What is your problem with that?
thinking for yourself is not trolling mot people do not believe everything they hear unlike you and other mccan supporters
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 13, 2014, 12:09:02 AM
thinking for yourself is not trolling mot people do not believe everything they hear unlike you and other mccan supporters
Thinking for yourself & expressing a rational opinion is not a problem, However, one look at MM Controversy F/B tonight and I see "the sceptics" are still at it, photoshopping pictures & jumping all over one solitary commenter who posted a "McCann-friendly" opinion. If the McCanns are actually guilty, do you seriously believe they could ever be tried fairly in a UK or Portuguese court?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 13, 2014, 12:33:33 AM
Thinking for yourself & expressing a rational opinion is not a problem, However, one look at MM Controversy F/B tonight and I see "the sceptics" are still at it, photoshopping pictures & jumping all over one solitary commenter who posted a "McCann-friendly" opinion. If the McCanns are actually guilty, do you seriously believe they could ever be tried fairly in a UK or Portuguese court?
so why look if it upsets you?? no one forces you to look
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 13, 2014, 12:52:23 AM
so why look if it upsets you?? no one forces you to look
It doesn't "upset" me, Carlymichelle, as I am not the victim of the abuse. The point I am making is, the group is meant to be a discussion of the Madeleine controversy. To a neutral viewer, the discussion is totally one-sided & abusive to anyone who disagrees with the whole McScam consensus. Free thought & speech are not encouraged, they are blocked & derided. Posters are encouraged to report suspected "McCann shills" to admin. I see only suppression of free thought & speech on there - isn't that one of the main things the sceptics & the deceased are so strongly opposed to?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 13, 2014, 08:19:19 AM
Apparently the authorities/police were already aware of and monitoring the alleged online abuse.......... It was therefore already exposed.
It is for those not in "authority" ..........those who took it upon themselves to conspire to research and target an individual in the way they did, to consider whether their own behaviour was immoral or illegal, in my view.
It's certainly not up to individuals to decide what is and what isn't illegal, nor should the fact that online abuse had been exposed (had it??) stop others from drawing the authorities and the public's attention to it if they feel it is the right thing to do. i'm sure you wouldn't consider it illegal or immoral to draw attention to the bullying of a vulnerable person in your community so how is this any different?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 13, 2014, 09:48:43 AM
The current feeling of public distaste which is fuelling complaints to the CPS stems not so much from the trolling of high profile victims ... but from the increase in the attacks being suffered by ordinary people and their family members.
Apart from a hard core who support the perpetrators and those who are 'enjoying life' as trolls ... public awareness of the damage these misfits inflict on society is recognised ... and their actions despised.
I think we will see a rise in prosecutions for such offences ... it is to be hoped that those who have organised and conducted the insane trolling campaign against the McCanns will figure high when that occurs ... I think there will be a public outcry if it doesn't happen.
>>snip<<
'Troll' death sparks debate over internet bile
Criminal prosecution
It is a trend that has been replicated the world over against high-profile figures.
Zelda Williams, the daughter of US actor Robin Williams, recently quit Twitter after internet trolls posted fake photos claiming to be her dead father.
Former model Charlotte Dawson, who was found dead at her Sydney apartment in February after battling depression, had been subjected to a torrent of abuse on Twitter.
"Every country is facing these challenges," said British lawyer Mark Stephens.
"What they are doing is meeting the challenges in slightly different ways but ultimately very similar balances are being struck."
The media lawyer said he had seen "a significant upswing" in online bullying cases.
But criminal prosecution, said Stephens, should be reserved for the most extreme cases.
"It is only a very small minority who are fixated, who take it to the extreme - people who are borderline certifiable," he argued.
Guidelines
Britain's Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has instructed lawyers that messages sent via social media could be a criminal offence if they contain "credible threats of violence" or target an individual in a way that "may constitute harassment or stalking".
"Grossly offensive, indecent, obscene or false" messages could also amount to a crime if a "public interest" case can be made.
These guidelines, introduced against a background of mounting confusion about such cases, have been shaped considerably by public opinion, said Chris Holder, of London law firm Bristows.
"I think people are so fed up with reading things on the internet that you would not say to people's faces - abusive messages to people's children, Facebook posts that are completely obnoxious. The public have demanded that the CPS do something about it," he said.
He acknowledges, however, that in the fast moving world of the internet any guidelines "could become irrelevant".
Over the past decade the number of successful prosecutions for communications offences has risen in Britain and custodial sentences are not uncommon.
I think we do have to consider that the animosity between the supporters and sceptics tends to ramp up the invective used, we see it on here. If it were possible to have sensible discussion then the language would be a lot more temperate.
Juvenile TIT forTAT as far as I can see.
Possibly in connection with the supposed 'outing' of a former employee of the OC who acted as a nanny for Madeleine.
There is indeed a modicum of it on this forum and we have an efficient Admin and Mods in constant operation ... there are a lot of areas in the blogosphere and social media where it is Dodge City on a bad day and people think they can post whatever they feel like about anyone who crosses their radar.
Wonder if there are any instances of McCann supporters seeking out Dr Amaral's home; stalking his children; going into his 'local' to slander him?
Actually, I don't wonder ... I know that it has never happened ... think about what has been happening for the past seven years+ to Madeleine's family.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 13, 2014, 01:06:05 PM
Here we have more examples of the mccann trolls in action.
See here (WARNING: EXTREME ABUSE AND BAD LANGUAGE) -
I can't say I'm surprised by this, as I have seen worse.
Come on Stephen. This is twitter - a bunch of anonymous idiots shouting abuse at each other across the ether. Nobody knows who is who or why. You seem to want to play a game of "your twitter troll is worse than my twitter troll". Anyone who engages on twitter needs to be familiar with the principle of Volenti non fit iniuria.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 13, 2014, 01:32:43 PM
Come on Stephen. This is twitter - a bunch of anonymous idiots shouting abuse at each other across the ether. Nobody knows who is who or why. You seem to want to play a game of "your twitter troll is worse than my twitter troll". Anyone who engages on twitter needs to be familiar with the principle of Volenti non fit iniuria.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
That's Twitter, to Twits.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 13, 2014, 01:32:48 PM
Come on Stephen. This is twitter - a bunch of anonymous idiots shouting abuse at each other across the ether. Nobody knows who is who or why. You seem to want to play a game of "your twitter troll is worse than my twitter troll". Anyone who engages on twitter needs to be familiar with the principle of Volenti non fit iniuria.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Pull the other one.
You and others are quite prepared to deal with offenders from the other side of the fence.
As to the Shakespeare quote, irrelevant in this context, unless diversion is your tactic.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 13, 2014, 01:38:33 PM
Come on Stephen. This is twitter - a bunch of anonymous idiots shouting abuse at each other across the ether. Nobody knows who is who or why. You seem to want to play a game of "your twitter troll is worse than my twitter troll". Anyone who engages on twitter needs to be familiar with the principle of Volenti non fit iniuria.
"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
All of whom have elected to be there and can close their account and go away if it all gets too much for them.
The McCanns do not have that option.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 13, 2014, 01:40:21 PM
The. McCanns and their supporters may feel that someone tweeting that there is no independent witnesses to Gerry's presence at the tapas just before the alarm was raised is harassment but it is a legitimate statement and within the law. But would you, as a supporter, consider it so ?
One statement to that effect may be within the law but continually posting messages that question the McCanns honesty may amount to harassment. It would be up the police to refer to the CPS and then a court would decide the legality. It is not up to posters on here to decide themselves what is legitimate. Brenda Leyland felt what she was doing was legitimate....the law may have felt different.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 13, 2014, 04:09:38 PM
One statement to that effect may be within the law but continually posting messages that question the McCanns honesty may amount to harassment. It would be up the police to refer to the CPS and then a court would decide the legality. It is not up to posters on here to decide themselves what is legitimate. Brenda Leyland felt what she was doing was legitimate....the law may have felt different.
Well said. Sceptics like to ask their questions, repeatedly and often , and many times these are interspersed with comments of a hateful and personal nature about the McCanns' appearance, state of their marriage, characters etc. They tend to forget all the hateful crap when they say all innocent-like "we're only asking questions", like butter wouldn't melt.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 13, 2014, 05:38:49 PM
Well said. Sceptics like to ask their questions, repeatedly and often , and many times these are interspersed with comments of a hateful and personal nature about the McCanns' appearance, state of their marriage, characters etc. They tend to forget all the hateful crap when they say all innocent-like "we're only asking questions", like butter wouldn't melt.
How may times can you ask the same question, once a day? ... forty times a week? ... before people begin to question your sanity?
Must be a real problem with people who have been doing it for seven years.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 05:43:08 PM
Until you get the truth perhaps ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 06:34:09 PM
You have to wonder why supporters, if the McCanns have really been cleared of guilt, are still here ?
Why do they still feel the need to stalk and intimidate people who do not believe the parents ?
Why the need to defend when, we are told, the McCann's innocence is self--evident ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 13, 2014, 06:36:41 PM
Anonymous dossier compilers would not exist were it not for the cowardly trolls providing a surfeit of material for them to compile.
There would be no anonymous dossier compilers if the anonymous cowards who have made it their business to troll the McCann family and others were unable to do so with impunity.
As long as there are people devoid of any concept of moral rectitude which enables them to behave like savages there will be people around to report their illegal activities.
As long as there are people who have taken it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner to hound the family of a missing child there will be investigative reporters around to do their job and investigate their activities.
What is your problem with that?
You posted an article dated 14th Oct. 2013 which stated that Police were monitoring alleged online abuse.......such material was therefore already known to them, with the authorities presumably able to discern, research, trace and bring offenders to justice.
Your justifications and selected press articles do not alter the principle that Mrs Leyland had apparently not been interviewed by the police or labelled a troll, despite her material being already out there on view and "exposed" to scrutiny already, plus the police being in possession of your "dossier".
It was a wholly unofficial "research" and selective targeting of this one person by the dossier compilers via the press............. presumably because the official police "action" didn`t match what you wanted done.........(Is that about right?)
Yes I do have problems with .............(as you put it in your post above)............." people who have taken it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner" whilst pontificating to others about upholding the law.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 13, 2014, 07:30:26 PM
You posted an article dated 14th Oct. 2013 which stated that Police were monitoring alleged online abuse.......such material was therefore already known to them, with the authorities presumably able to discern, research, trace and bring offenders to justice.
Your justifications and selected press articles do not alter the principle that Mrs Leyland had apparently not been interviewed by the police or labelled a troll, despite her material being already out there on view and "exposed" to scrutiny already, plus the police being in possession of your "dossier".
It was a wholly unofficial "research" and selective targeting of this one person by the dossier compilers via the press............. presumably because the official police "action" didn`t match what you wanted done.........(Is that about right?)
Yes I do have problems with .............(as you put it in your post above)............." people who have taken it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner" whilst pontificating to others about upholding the law.
What at typically ridiculous post...with people like you acting as judge ...jury etc for the last 7 years...have you at last seen how wrong you were?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 13, 2014, 08:31:54 PM
You posted an article dated 14th Oct. 2013 which stated that Police were monitoring alleged online abuse.......such material was therefore already known to them, with the authorities presumably able to discern, research, trace and bring offenders to justice.
Your justifications and selected press articles do not alter the principle that Mrs Leyland had apparently not been interviewed by the police or labelled a troll, despite her material being already out there on view and "exposed" to scrutiny already, plus the police being in possession of your "dossier".
It was a wholly unofficial "research" and selective targeting of this one person by the dossier compilers via the press............. presumably because the official police "action" didn`t match what you wanted done.........(Is that about right?)
Yes I do have problems with .............(as you put it in your post above)............." people who have taken it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner" whilst pontificating to others about upholding the law.
I think that abusive tweets from a few obsessives represent the tip of the iceberg are not the real problem here.
The hounding of the McCanns has been organised since Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007 and I think people have to ask themselves by whom and they should also ask themselves why.
They should examine their consciences carefully and ask themselves what Madeleine’s siblings have done that the trolls now feel free to openly include them not just as collateral damage but as objects of their spite.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 13, 2014, 08:54:52 PM
I think that abusive tweets from a few obsessives represent the tip of the iceberg are not the real problem here.
Agreed, it is those who are using the actions of the few obsessives to denigrate anyone who questions the "official" story and thus stifle free speech and debate.
Quote
The hounding of the McCanns has been organised since Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007 and I think people have to ask themselves by whom and they should also ask themselves why.
Pure speculation.
Quote
They should examine their consciences carefully and ask themselves what Madeleine’s siblings have done that the trolls now feel free to openly include them not just as collateral damage but as objects of their spite.
Agreed, does depend on your definition of troll.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 13, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
@Slarti - you said this was pure speculation:
The hounding of the McCanns has been organised since Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007 and I think people have to ask themselves by whom and they should also ask themselves why.
A couple of examples:
3As, MM, Madeleine Foundation for a start.
And of course every time an article is published in a newspaper, with comments left open - the "word" gets out. Are you suggesting that all of this is simply random?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 13, 2014, 09:17:03 PM
The hounding of the McCanns has been organised since Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007 and I think people have to ask themselves by whom and they should also ask themselves why.
A couple of examples:
3As, MM, Madeleine Foundation for a start.
And of course every time an article is published in a newspaper, with comments left open - the "word" gets out. Are you suggesting that all of this is simply random?
Unless you have any evidence otherwise, yes.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 13, 2014, 09:20:02 PM
The hounding of the McCanns has been organised since Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007 and I think people have to ask themselves by whom and they should also ask themselves why.
A couple of examples:
3As, MM, Madeleine Foundation for a start.
And of course every time an article is published in a newspaper, with comments left open - the "word" gets out. Are you suggesting that all of this is simply random?
Paranoia.
Why shouldn't people give their opinion's ?
Why should they be drowned out by people who are trolls supporting the mccanns.
Just look at the sites which 'support' the mccanns, and you know exactly which ones I mean.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 09:23:48 PM
I think that abusive tweets from a few obsessives represent the tip of the iceberg are not the real problem here.
The hounding of the McCanns has been organised since Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007 and I think people have to ask themselves by whom and they should also ask themselves why.
They should examine their consciences carefully and ask themselves what Madeleine’s siblings have done that the trolls now feel free to openly include them not just as collateral damage but as objects of their spite.
Members may well be beginning to ask themselves Brietta why YOU include the twins in every post you write. I have never, ever seen anyone direct spite at the McCann children. In fact if anything there has been a great deal of sympathy for them for having been exposed to a situation that was not of their making.
I would be very interested if you could illustrate your accusation with at least one example of the twins being targeted as 'objects of spite' but of course you won't. You will do what you always do and ignore the question.
It absolutely sickens me the way both the McCanns and their supporters use the twins like an emotional sledgehammer to elicit sympathy for their feckless parents.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 09:25:04 PM
Agreed, it is those who are using the actions of the few obsessives to denigrate anyone who questions the "official" story and thus stifle free speech and debate.
Pure speculation.
Agreed, does depend on your definition of troll.
And what pray is the “official story” … is it the final report absolving Madeleine’s parents from blame? Is it the review conducted by SY which produced sufficient evidence to allow the reopening of the case? Is it the independent review undertaken by the PJ which uncovered enough evidence to allow them to reopen the archived case? Is it search by the PJ and the Met for an abductor?
Pure speculation.
Hmmm … you prefer to say so although you know that is laughable. I’ve not been around long enough to have seen the three arguidos site; but that was only one of the first to be set up specifically to attack the McCanns and seek the troof; on their return to GB they had “vexatious” TB and his campaigns to contend with. Not forgetting the ‘jailhouse lawyer’ John Hirst who as well as being a dedicated McCann hounder is also an axe murderer.
That’s just one or two … the internet is awash with people who have made it their business … and it is big business … to hound the McCann family.
Agreed, does depend on your definition of troll.
I am absolutely certain that your definition of troll won’t even meet my definition of troll even halfway.
However if you can give me one … just one … example of a family which has been deliberately persecuted for seven years in the horrific way the McCanns have been … there may be a starting point for debate on the matter.
One family … worldwide … just one example. Easy peasy, eh
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 13, 2014, 09:37:49 PM
And what pray is the “official story” … is it the final report absolving Madeleine’s parents from blame? Is it the review conducted by SY which produced sufficient evidence to allow the reopening of the case? Is it the independent review undertaken by the PJ which uncovered enough evidence to allow them to reopen the archived case? Is it search by the PJ and the Met for an abductor?
Pure speculation.
Hmmm … you prefer to say so although you know that is laughable. I’ve not been around long enough to have seen the three arguidos site; but that was only one of the first to be set up specifically to attack the McCanns and seek the troof; on their return to GB they had “vexatious” TB and his campaigns to contend with. Not forgetting the ‘jailhouse lawyer’ John Hirst who as well as being a dedicated McCann hounder is also an axe murderer.
That’s just one or two … the internet is awash with people who have made it their business … and it is big business … to hound the McCann family.
Agreed, does depend on your definition of troll.
I am absolutely certain that your definition of troll won’t even meet my definition of troll even halfway.
However if you can give me one … just one … example of a family which has been deliberately persecuted for seven years in the horrific way the McCanns have been … there may be a starting point for debate on the matter.
One family … worldwide … just one example. Easy peasy, eh
'..........deliberately persecuted for seven years in the horrific way the McCanns have been............'
Just how close are you to the mccann family ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 13, 2014, 09:39:17 PM
The twins?
Internet trolls fuelled by an ex police chief's claims about the McCanns incited conspiracy-theorists to plot to kidnap the couple's twins Sean and Amelie, a court heard today. Goncalo Amaral's claims they faked daughter Madeleine's abduction to cover up her death in their Algarve holiday apartment was to blame for the threats, close family friend Michael Wright said. Gerry and Kate McCann, 45, from Rothley, Leics, are suing the former Portuguese detective over his bombshell July 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie.' Defamed? Defamed? Kate McCann, pictured speaking to press outside Lisbon's civil court last week, has brought a case of libel against the former police chief in the country who she says launched a 'smear campaign' against her The couple have also launched £1 million libel proceedings at Lisbon's Palace of Justice against Mr Amaral's book publishers and a TV station which broadcast an April 2009 documentary based on his claims. Mr Wright, husband of Kate McCann's cousin Anne-Marie, told the court the theories in Mr Amaral's book gave conspiracy theorists on anti-Mccann Internet forums 'focus' because he had been in charge of the botched investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. He said: 'There were several examples of them inciting forum members to abduct one of the twins as they felt they would be able to throw some light on what may have happened. 'On one of the Internet forums, called The 3 Arguidos, there was an Internet conversation in great length where a member was suggesting that someone should abduct Sean or Amelie because they may be able to get information out of them that would confirm Mr Amaral's theories.' Mr Wright, who helped monitor Internet activity on missing Madeleine for the couple, said he felt compelled to tell Gerry and he was interviewed by police from his home county of North Yorkshire after they decided detectives should be alerted. He said the threats also made Gerry and Kate more vigilant about the use of the Internet by their twins, now eight. Kate McCann mother of missing Madeleine leaving a Portuguese court after the start of the family's libel action against a former local police chief Goncalo Amaral Mrs McCann (left) is suing the Portuguese ex-police chief (right) for the book, titled 'Maddie: The Truth of The Lie', which accuses her of staging her daughter's disappearance, despite a lack of evidence 'I know Amelie has Googled her name and discovered sites to do with the conclusions of Mr Amaral's book,' he told the court. 'I do not know if she opened any of the pages and fortunately she told Gerry and Kate. 'But I know they will definitely be in a position where over the coming years they will search on the Internet and they will find people who will be saying their parents killed their sister.' Mr Amaral's book was published just three days after the McCanns - made suspects over their daughter's death in September 2007 - had their status as 'arguidos' formally lifted. Around 120,000 copies of the book were sold before it was withdrawn when the McCanns won an injunction against him. It formed the basis for a documentary screened on TVI - the Portuguese equivalent of ITV - in April 2009. Company director Mr Wright, from Skipton, North Yorks, said Gerry had suffered one of his darkest hours when they marked the second anniversary of Madeleine's May 3 2007 disappearance together in a remote cottage. The couple were told on the way to the cottage locals on the Algarve were ripping up posters they had put up as part of a campaign to find their daughter. He told the court: 'I had a discussion with Gerry where he talked about not being able to go on. Kate McCann and Gerry McCann, pictured in interview in London this spring, launched £1million libel proceedings against Goncalo Amaral Gerry McCann, left, has flown to Portugal to join his wife Kate in the £1million libel case they brought against former police chief Goncalo Amaral, who published a book about Maddie's disappearance Madeleine McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007, from the family villa while they were on holiday in the Algarve, Portugal Kate McCann at the The House of Commons giving evidence at the Parliamentary inquiry into the rights of families of missing people Madeleine McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007, from the family villa while they were on holiday in the Algarve, Portugal. Mother Kate McCann has campaigned tirelessly to try raise awareness to help find her daughter 'I had never heard Gerry speak like that before. 'It was a very upsetting conversation for me to hear Gerry talk like that. 'Both he and Kate are incredibly strong and driven people.' He said Kate, who flew to Lisbon last week for the start of the libel trial, changed whenever she was in Portugal where she felt most people believed Mr Amaral's theories. 'She feels she can't be seen to smile,' he told the court. 'Almost any form of relaxation is a problem, she wouldn't even go to the gym on her own, because there's still a belief most people in Portugal think she and Gerry are responsible for killing Madeleine.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2426813/McCann-children-kidnap-plots-took-place-websites-accusing-Kate-Gerry.html#ixzz3G3lcwrv7 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 09:52:47 PM
Ah the testimony of Wright. Do we know if the guilty were charged ? That was a very real threat to the twins safety. Surely someone was charged and tried ? Surely ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 13, 2014, 10:09:57 PM
Ah the testimony of Wright. Do we know if the guilty were charged ? That was a very real threat to the twins safety. Surely someone was charged and tried ? Surely ?
Charged and tried?
You wanted examples of intrusions into the McCanns' privacy that invoked the twins.
I've given you one.
Here's another:
An actual tweet.
Marina Johnson @beemmjay2011 4m Was Ameilie #McCann on the school bus with Sean and will @reallorraine be interviewing the bus driver? 10:58 AM - 15 Jul 2014 · Details Collapse
I'm sure it is far from isolated.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 13, 2014, 10:10:52 PM
Why should they be drowned out by people who are trolls supporting the mccanns.
Just look at the sites which 'support' the mccanns, and you know exactly which ones I mean.
No reason, Stephen. I am a firm believer in article 10 of the ECHR.
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises. 2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 13, 2014, 10:12:34 PM
You said:- "This is just another repetition of your views............to which you are entitled. That`s all. It does not negate what I posted any more than Davel`s mindless insults did."
I replied:- It is my view ... but it is an informed view.
You replied:- ...........but does not really relate to my post, to which it was attached.
For future reference ... I will respond to posts as I see fit ... and as I am "entitled".
Unless I am missing something profound you have just given a prime example of a trolling technique which I find risible. So be a good thing now ... and go off and troll someone who might appreciate it.
Oh don`t be so silly with your trolling - technique - analyses and attempted- put - downs !
The posts I mean are copied below...The reply you gave does not relate to my post..........That is all I meant.
*sighs*
Carew You posted an article dated 14th Oct. 2013 which stated that Police were monitoring alleged online abuse.......such material was therefore already known to them, with the authorities presumably able to discern, research, trace and bring offenders to justice.
Your justifications and selected press articles do not alter the principle that Mrs Leyland had apparently not been interviewed by the police or labelled a troll, despite her material being already out there on view and "exposed" to scrutiny already, plus the police being in possession of your "dossier".
It was a wholly unofficial "research" and selective targeting of this one person by the dossier compilers via the press............. presumably because the official police "action" didn`t match what you wanted done.........(Is that about right?)
Yes I do have problems with .............(as you put it in your post above)............." people who have taken it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and executioner" whilst pontificating to others about upholding the law.
Brietta I think that abusive tweets from a few obsessives represent the tip of the iceberg are not the real problem here.
The hounding of the McCanns has been organised since Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007 and I think people have to ask themselves by whom and they should also ask themselves why.
They should examine their consciences carefully and ask themselves what Madeleine’s siblings have done that the trolls now feel free to openly include them not just as collateral damage but as objects of their spite.
[[/b]
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 13, 2014, 10:13:50 PM
No reason, Stephen. I am a firm believer in article 10 of the ECHR.
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises. 2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
It's such a bummer when you quote the whole thing.
Or at least, for some, it is ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 13, 2014, 10:34:44 PM
I dont think any of the vocal posters on social media, on either side, actually present any real threat.
Anyone actually intent on taking actual action would not spend their time spouting off on twitter.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 11:02:36 PM
You wanted examples of intrusions into the McCanns' privacy that invoked the twins.
I've given you one.
Here's another:
An actual tweet.
Marina Johnson @beemmjay2011 4m Was Ameilie #McCann on the school bus with Sean and will @reallorraine be interviewing the bus driver? 10:58 AM - 15 Jul 2014 · Details Collapse
I'm sure it is far from isolated.
I'm sorry but we only have Wright's word for the threat and that is far from objective. Don't you think that if such a thing had happened the guilty parties face would be all over the papers because to plot a kidnapping is a very serious offence and not one that would go unpunished .
As to the tweet, it seems, it was more questioning what Kate had claimed in court, that if they are twins why wasn't Amelia on the same bus as Sean. It was in no way spiteful or threatening.....well only to people who want it to be I suppose.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 13, 2014, 11:07:34 PM
I'm sorry ...
That was a good start.
But the rest of what you wrote wrecked that promising beginning.
You should be sorry but you clearly aren't ...
This was evidence given to a Portuguese court.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 11:19:22 PM
But the rest of what you wrote wrecked that promising beginning.
You should be sorry but you clearly aren't ...
This was evidence given to a Portuguese court.
And your point is ?
Tell me ferryman if someone had committed the very serious crime of conspiracy to kidnap, especially a minor, why were they never charged as in the Beckham kidnap plot ?
Tell me ferryman if someone had committed the very serious crime of conspiracy to kidnap, especially a minor, why were they never charged as in the Beckham kidnap plot ?
The right people have not yet been identified, just as the right abductors of Ben Needham have not been identified.
I don't think, even you, regard Kerry Needham as implicated in anything to do with Ben's disappearance -- as, indeed, you shouldn't.
Malicious and groundless accusations against Kate and Gerry, by default, damages the twins.
How can it not?
Kate and Gerry are their mother and father.
Can I interpret from your answer that there is no hard evidence that the twins were ever threatened with kidnap and all you have in response is some mawkish, subjective nonsense ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 13, 2014, 11:33:15 PM
Can I interpret from your answer that there is no hard evidence that the twins were ever threatened with kidnap and all you have in response is some mawkish, subjective nonsense ?
We are talking about trolling activity that impinges on the twins.
I have given you two examples.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 13, 2014, 11:35:26 PM
Can I interpret from your answer that there is no hard evidence that the twins were ever threatened with kidnap and all you have in response is some mawkish, subjective nonsense ?
These things were said. Whether or not they were meant is impossible to tell.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 13, 2014, 11:36:01 PM
Really Eleanor then why weren't the perpetrators arrested ? Conspiracy to kidnap a minor is a very serious offence.
faithlily i dont understand why the supporters think they are doing the mcanns good they make the mcanns look worse imo and the truth is the mccans care nill about their supporters they dont even read fb and twitter according to the mcanns
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 13, 2014, 11:45:24 PM
faithlily i dont understand why the supporters think they are doing the mcanns good they make the mcanns look worse imo and the truth is the mccans care nill about their supporters they dont even read fb and twitter according to the mcanns
No one in their right mind reads Twitter.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: VIXTE on October 13, 2014, 11:54:03 PM
Not everything objectionable on twitter goes punished.
The alleged kidnap threat wasn't tweeted it was posted on the 3as and the threat, if it happened, wasn't just objectionable it was a threat to the very safety of the McCann children.
So I ask again ferryman if Wright had solid evidence of a threat to the safety of the McCann children why wasn't the perpetrator arrested ? In fact if the McCanns truly believed this individual was a threat to there children why didn't they make sure something was done ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2014, 12:08:42 AM
The alleged kidnap threat wasn't tweeted it was posted on the 3as and the threat, if it happened, wasn't just objectionable it was a threat to the very safety of the McCann children.
So I ask again ferryman if Wright had solid evidence of a threat to the safety of the McCann children why wasn't the perpetrator arrested ? In fact if the McCanns truly believed this individual was a threat to there children why didn't they make sure something was done ?
Something might have been done. Who knows? It's too long ago now.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 14, 2014, 12:09:24 AM
The alleged kidnap threat wasn't tweeted it was posted on the 3as and the threat, if it happened, wasn't just objectionable it was a threat to the very safety of the McCann children.
So I ask again ferryman if Wright had solid evidence of a threat to the safety of the McCann children why wasn't the perpetrator arrested ? In fact if the McCanns truly believed this individual was a threat to there children why didn't they make sure something was done ?
The mindset of the people who make these threats is identical whatever the medium.
I trust you are not suggesting that the people who posted this stuff on a messageboard would be "above" posting the same on twitter. Are you?
And why do you suppose anyone would lie in evidence given to court?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 14, 2014, 12:10:28 AM
The mindset of the people who make these threats is identical whatever the medium.
I trust you are not suggesting that the people who posted this stuff on a messageboard would be "above" posting the same on twitter. Are you?
And why do you suppose anyone would lie in evidence given to court?
Please don't answer a question with a question.
This is what I asked "f Wright had solid evidence of a threat to the safety of the McCann children why wasn't the perpetrator arrested ? In fact if the McCanns truly believed this individual was a threat to there children why didn't they make sure something was done ?"
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2014, 12:14:15 AM
This is what I asked "f Wright had solid evidence of a threat to the safety of the McCann children why wasn't the perpetrator arrested ? In fact if the McCanns truly believed this individual was a threat to there children why didn't they make sure something was done ?"
I've already answered. I don't know. Maybe because the perpetator couldn't be tracked down.
Now answer my questions
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 14, 2014, 12:23:09 AM
That the twins safety was allegedly threatened should matter to everyone.
Aren't you concerned that no arrests resulted from this very serious alleged offence and the maniac who was planning this allegedly heinous crime is still free to fulfil his dastardly plan.
If you thought Mrs Leyland should have been taught a lesson surely you want this monster tarred and feathered at the very least ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 14, 2014, 12:24:31 AM
That the twins safety was allegedly threatened should matter to everyone.
Aren't you concerned that no arrests resulted from this very serious alleged offence and the maniac who was planning this allegedly heinous crime is still free to fulfil his dastardly plan.
If you thought Mrs Leyland should have been taught a lesson surely you want this monster tarred and feathered at the very least ?
No, I am not concerned about that incident after all this time.
And as far as I know, Mrs. Leyland did not issue any direct threats towards any of The McCann Family. She was just abusive in a sad and deluded fashion.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 14, 2014, 12:42:54 AM
No, I am not concerned about that incident after all this time.
And as far as I know, Mrs. Leyland did not issue any direct threats towards any of The McCann Family. She was just abusive in a sad and deluded fashion.
Call yourself a supporter Eleanor 8)><(
Have you no thought for the McCanns and their safety ?
Or perhaps you know like every other rational person that there really is no threat to them or their family ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2014, 12:47:11 AM
Have you no thought for the McCanns and their safety ?
Or perhaps you know like every other rational person that there really is no threat to them or their family ?
I have no idea if any of these horrible people will live out their fantasies, and I don't suppose The McCanns have either. But no doubt they have some sort of Police Protection. And no doubt The Police know who these horrible people are.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 14, 2014, 12:48:05 AM
You began with the false premiss that the twins are exempt from on-line trolling of the McCanns (even if you may choose to describe such activity a different way) ...
And you've never recovered from there ...
You were unable to give me one believable example of the twins being 'trolled' and when you realised you were losing the argument you decided to try and embarrass me into submission.
Award yourself the victory ferryman. You obviously need it more than me ! *&*%£
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 14, 2014, 12:49:05 AM
I have no idea if any of these horrible people will live out their fantasies, and I don't suppose The McCanns have either. But no doubt they have some sort of Police Protection. And no doubt The Police know who these horrible people are.
Then why don't they arrest the blighters ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2014, 12:53:23 AM
I have little credibility amongst the doubters because I speak the truth
You have no credibility at all with the people you call 'doubters, for the simple reason, you get caught out with your 'truths' on so many occasions.
8((()*/
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 14, 2014, 08:17:58 AM
How can anyone safely say there is no threat to the McCanns or the twins? In light of the fact that there have been numerous expressions of violence towards them and suggestions to kidnap the twins discussed on social media, and that their home address is well-known in certain circles (some of these circles number 20,000 individuals or more) as is the name of the children's school, how can anyone say with absolute certainty that there isn't someone out there with a real desire to do physical harm to this family? Should we as concerned members of the public all just hope for the best and turn a blind eye to these threats whoch appear regularly on social media? Would that be the moral and legally correct thing to do?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Moderator on October 14, 2014, 10:29:52 AM
WARNING.
The use of expletives and personal attacks on other members will not be tolerated.
Off topic posts will be removed as per forum policy.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 14, 2014, 10:32:24 AM
How can anyone safely say there is no threat to the McCanns or the twins? In light of the fact that there have been numerous expressions of violence towards them and suggestions to kidnap the twins discussed on social media, and that their home address is well-known in certain circles (some of these circles number 20,000 individuals or more) as is the name of the children's school, how can anyone say with absolute certainty that there isn't someone out there with a real desire to do physical harm to this family? Should we as concerned members of the public all just hope for the best and turn a blind eye to these threats whoch appear regularly on social media? Would that be the moral and legally correct thing to do?
The fact that they defend the content and the volume of the online abuse directed at the McCann family shows they have no moral compass whatsoever. So it is not surprising they are unable to see how the twins are being abused ... young people 'live' on the internet these days ... the McCann twins will have to be different and no other parents in the world are facing what the Drs McCann are in that regard.
That there are those who deny the online filth located from one end of the internet to the other concerning their family might not one day have a serious effect on their young developing minds … show they are seriously deluded and just don't care about these children. And all because their parents have continued to search for Madeleine.
Among the 20,000+ sociopaths who think nothing of violating the rights of others may be a lunatic who will be able to recognise them easily because their picture has been published on social media.
The out of school activities they take part in are also discussed on social media platforms.
As is their school, the route to school and information from the school handbook about times etc.
That there have been serious on line 'chats' about the best place on his jogging route to kidnap their father to take him off to ... what???
Similarly on line discussion has taken place on routes run by their mother where there might be a secluded enough alley to pull her into.
... and there are those who think there is no harm intended to the twins. What planet are they on?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 14, 2014, 11:12:11 AM
The fact that they defend the content and the volume of the online abuse directed at the McCann family shows they have no moral compass whatsoever. So it is not surprising they are unable to see how the twins are being abused ... young people 'live' on the internet these days ... the McCann twins will have to be different and no other parents in the world are facing what the Drs McCann are in that regard.
That there are those who deny the online filth located from one end of the internet to the other concerning their family might not one day have a serious effect on their young developing minds … show they are seriously deluded and just don't care about these children. And all because their parents have continued to search for Madeleine.
Among the 20,000+ sociopaths who think nothing of violating the rights of others may be a lunatic who will be able to recognise them easily because their picture has been published on social media.
The out of school activities they take part in are also discussed on social media platforms.
As is their school, the route to school and information from the school handbook about times etc.
That there have been serious on line 'chats' about the best place on his jogging route to kidnap their father to take him off to ... what???
Similarly on line discussion has taken place on routes run by their mother where there might be a secluded enough alley to pull her into.
... and there are those who think there is no harm intended to the twins. What planet are they on?
Of course you have proof of all of the above......... ?
No of course you don't !
I just hope the twins don't read any of your posts. Your fetid imagination scares me never mind two children.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 14, 2014, 12:09:17 PM
The fact that they defend the content and the volume of the online abuse directed at the McCann family shows they have no moral compass whatsoever. So it is not surprising they are unable to see how the twins are being abused ... young people 'live' on the internet these days ... the McCann twins will have to be different and no other parents in the world are facing what the Drs McCann are in that regard.
That there are those who deny the online filth located from one end of the internet to the other concerning their family might not one day have a serious effect on their young developing minds … show they are seriously deluded and just don't care about these children. And all because their parents have continued to search for Madeleine.
Among the 20,000+ sociopaths who think nothing of violating the rights of others may be a lunatic who will be able to recognise them easily because their picture has been published on social media.
The out of school activities they take part in are also discussed on social media platforms.
As is their school, the route to school and information from the school handbook about times etc.
That there have been serious on line 'chats' about the best place on his jogging route to kidnap their father to take him off to ... what???
Similarly on line discussion has taken place on routes run by their mother where there might be a secluded enough alley to pull her into.
... and there are those who think there is no harm intended to the twins. What planet are they on?
the McCanns children can never have a facebook page or any other sort of online presence in their real names without the absolute certain knowledge that they will be stalked and monitored by the McCann obsessives. Any curiosity they may have about their sister's disappearance which results in them surfing the net for information will result in thousands upon thousands of hits to their parents describing them as s..m, child neglectors, killers, criminals, money grabbers, fraudsters, swingers, paedophiles etc. Their rights have been totally violated by the online hate mob. Their best course of action for those children is to avoid using the internet for the rest of their lives. How sad for them to be denied the right to use the web without being subjected to a lifetime of stalking and intrusion and fear and loathing.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on October 14, 2014, 03:15:11 PM
I know, but I'm not sure that Carly actually realises the extent of the threats, nor whether she would find these acceptable if they were expressed against herself or her loved ones.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2014, 03:18:17 PM
I know, but I'm not sure that Carly actually realises the extent of the threats, nor whether she would find these acceptable if they were expressed against herself or her loved ones.
I find that to be a reasonable question because she appears not to.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 14, 2014, 03:22:14 PM
of course not but why lump everybody who doesnt believe the mcanns together??
I dont think anyone is "lumping everybody who doesnt believe the mcanns together". It is fine to ask questions, express doubts and comment on the case. But if you do so, then is it unreasonable to expect others to retaliate?
When it spills over into threats, accusations that the McCanns have committed various crimes, stalking, distributiong books, videos and leaflets, visiting their place of work - then that is unacceptable. And it is at that point the McCanns would be entitled to take legal action. And sometimes they do, as Bennett found out. Quite right too.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on October 14, 2014, 03:23:09 PM
of course not but why lump everybody who doesnt believe the mcanns together??
This thread is about an investigation into Internet trolls by the police.
Where do you draw the line between freedom of expression and abuse, (let alone comments about potentially setting fire to your home, or harming your family)?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 14, 2014, 03:24:11 PM
This thread is about an investigation into Internet trolls by the police.
Where do you draw the line between freedom of expression and abuse, (let alone comments about potentially setting fire to your home, or harming your family)?
By the police........yes.
Where do you draw the line between a police investigation and a pre-emptive D.I.Y. version, via a dossier and Sky News ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 14, 2014, 03:41:19 PM
One thing is the official investigation (which was subject to a rather long interruption). Another is the trial by media which has never stopped.
Again... where are the limits to unsubstantiated speculation and unbridled misinformation gleefully being touted as "facts"?
My question is to bring it back to a human level. Would anyone here appreciate this if we or our own famiies were the targets?
If there were different questions being put as newer information was exposed; if the statements and accusations being made were any different from those being made in 2007; then there might be some excuse.
It is the constant repetition of statements which have been proved to be erroneous that I find the most inexplicable.
If I ask a question and have been given an answer which I don’t like but which can be proven to be true … I accept the answer. I would never dream of displaying my ignorance ? my spite ? or my bile ? by continually asking it over and over again and again over a period of seven years ... because the truth of the answer isn't going to change.
I think people who have indulged themselves at the expense of the McCann family must be totally devoid of empathy as well as having other character defects. We are all capable of having disastrous ‘heat of the moment’ episodes … but keeping it up for seven years … that is something else.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 14, 2014, 05:23:31 PM
and what about the McCann trolls who stalk people who don't believe the McCann's , is that O.K. ?
An interesting point. Most people post under an anonymous username, here, and on other social media. Can an a pseudonym sue for defamtion? Can it be insulted? Can it be threatened?
I do not know the answer as it has not been tested in court.
The problems come when there is a collision between a pseudonym and real life. When someone using a pseudonym defames a real and identifyable person. Or when someone who has been a bit overenthusiastic in their posting is unmasked.
If everyone obeyed the simple rule - "never post any anything you would not say if the subject were standing in front of you" then all would be fine.
And before you go off on one - that applies to posters on both sides.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 14, 2014, 05:54:20 PM
An interesting point. Most people post under an anonymous username, here, and on other social media. Can an a pseudonym sue for defamtion? Can it be insulted? Can it be threatened?
I do not know the answer as it has not been tested in court.
The problems come when there is a collision between a pseudonym and real life. When someone using a pseudonym defames a real and identifyable person. Or when someone who has been a bit overenthusiastic in their posting is unmasked.
If everyone obeyed the simple rule - "never post any anything you would not say if the subject were standing in front of you" then all would be fine.
And before you go off on one - that applies to posters on both sides.
I agree with you on this .
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 14, 2014, 07:29:21 PM
An interesting point. Most people post under an anonymous username, here, and on other social media. Can an a pseudonym sue for defamtion? Can it be insulted? Can it be threatened?
I do not know the answer as it has not been tested in court.
The problems come when there is a collision between a pseudonym and real life. When someone using a pseudonym defames a real and identifyable person. Or when someone who has been a bit overenthusiastic in their posting is unmasked.
If everyone obeyed the simple rule - "never post any anything you would not say if the subject were standing in front of you" then all would be fine.
And before you go off on one - that applies to posters on both sides.
An admirable sentiment with which I concur. Unfortunately the world we inhabit is not like that and "that tinternet" probably made it worse.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 14, 2014, 07:46:53 PM
An admirable sentiment with which I concur. Unfortunately the world we inhabit is not like that and "that tinternet" probably made it worse.
That is true, Alice. And the anonymity afforded by the internet means that some people get carried away, and say things and, in a manner which they would never do in "real life". The persona of "sweepyface" is a very good example.
I am certainly not condoning what she did over the months and years, but on reflection I can understand it. I usually read my posts before pressing send, and confess that I have deleted or modified quite a few.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 14, 2014, 08:37:13 PM
That is true, Alice. And the anonymity afforded by the internet means that some people get carried away, and say things and, in a manner which they would never do in "real life". The persona of "sweepyface" is a very good example.
I am certainly not condoning what she did over the months and years, but on reflection I can understand it. I usually read my posts before pressing send, and confess that I have deleted or modified quite a few.
In what way can you understand it..her behaviour was despicable
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 14, 2014, 08:42:32 PM
I don't see anything criminal there.....if someone outed me on this board do you imagine that would be a criminal offence...it wouldn't...just as Martin Brunt did not commit a criminal act
I dont think there is an offence of "conspiracy to out".
To be serious for a moment - there is a right to privacy, but not a corresponding right to anonymity.
If you decide to publish something, especially something detrimental, then you do expose yourself to the possibility of being identified and , outed. If the posts come under the civil or criminal law, then court is always a possibility.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 14, 2014, 08:50:44 PM
I dont think there is an offence of "conspiracy to out".
To be serious for a moment - there is a right to privacy, but not a corresponding right to anonymity.
If you decide to publish something, especially something detrimental, then you do expose yourself to the possibility of being identified and , outed. If the posts come under the civil or criminal law, then court is always a possibility.
the right to privacy is not as comprehensive as you may think...for instance anyone can be photographed in a public place
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 14, 2014, 09:06:08 PM
In what way can you understand it..her behaviour was despicable
Of course it was. However, I can understand how some people find posting addictive. And the ability to post whatever you like, with no comeback from the "victim" and plaudits from other onliners, may make some feel invincible.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 14, 2014, 11:24:52 PM
If you were aware of someone who spent all day, every day tweeting the kind of deranged messages I've highlighted above about you would you just turn a blind eye? How would you feel reading those knowing that the person tweeting them knows where you live? Is it morally wrong to report tweeting histories like the one above to the police, or do you think it is the sensible, correct thing to do? What if these tweets weren't directed to you but to a vulnerable person in your community or to someone who is the victim of a crime or bereaved? Should you ignore them or report them?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2014, 11:44:57 PM
Good Post, Alfred. Heart felt.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 14, 2014, 11:47:18 PM
I've not seen that one ... they certainly have a thing about waterboarding ... but I have seen many, many other disgusting examples all with the #McCann. No sane person would disagree that it is way beyond time this was stopped.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 08:07:31 AM
I have more questions: how would you feel if you discovered that the tweets shown above were written by your sister, your wife, your daughter? Proud? Disturbed? Ashamed? Delighted? Remember these tweets were written by a prominent "sceptic", a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a pillow case. Should the media and the police ignore this sort of thing now in case exposure leads this deranged woman down the same route as Sweepyface?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 15, 2014, 08:14:22 AM
If you were aware of someone who spent all day, every day tweeting the kind of deranged messages I've highlighted above about you would you just turn a blind eye? How would you feel reading those knowing that the person tweeting them knows where you live? Is it morally wrong to report tweeting histories like the one above to the police, or do you think it is the sensible, correct thing to do? What if these tweets weren't directed to you but to a vulnerable person in your community or to someone who is the victim of a crime or bereaved? Should you ignore them or report them?
Just to get some perspective, there are thousands of people in this country that are in dispute with neighbours. They definitely know where they live and the unpleasantness is often face to face and cannot be walked away from. The police find it very difficult to take action in most of these cases.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 15, 2014, 08:19:37 AM
Just to get some perspective, there are thousands of people in this country that are in dispute with neighbours. They definitely know where they live and the unpleasantness is often face to face and cannot be walked away from. The police find it very difficult to take action in most of these cases.
I think the problem in that case is evidence whereas the posters supply concrete evidence of their actions
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 08:24:25 AM
I have more questions: how would you feel if you discovered that the tweets shown above were written by your sister, your wife, your daughter? Proud? Disturbed? Ashamed? Delighted? Remember these tweets were written by a prominent "sceptic", a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a pillow case. Should the media and the police ignore this sort of thing now in case exposure leads this deranged woman down the same route as Sweepyface?
The woman who you refer to as sweepyface was not been investigated by the police, but you know that.
You would also know if you had taken time to read, that I any many other people have condemned her activities.
What I have failed to see is any attempt from you whatsoever to condemn the people who are mccann supporters, clearly trolls, and, who have threatened and sent vile posts/tweets to others.
Now I have condemned those on both sides who have carried out these kind of activities.
HAVE YOU ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 15, 2014, 08:25:45 AM
Just to get some perspective, there are thousands of people in this country that are in dispute with neighbours. They definitely know where they live and the unpleasantness is often face to face and cannot be walked away from. The police find it very difficult to take action in most of these cases.
and your point is...? In the situation you describe at least everyone knows who they are dealing with. There are no anonymous nutters to deal with. That said, the fact that the police don't take action more often is something of a disgrace in my view, witness the hounding to death of a woman and her disabled child not that long ago, owing to the failure of the police to deal with their bullies properly.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 08:46:42 AM
Slarti, if you or your family and friends or a vulnerable person in your community were the target of the sort of online abuse shown above, constant day in day out 24/7 for 7 years, would you do nothing whatsoever to try and bring a halt to it, even if you knew your efforts would possibly (or even likely) end in failure?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 15, 2014, 08:57:41 AM
The woman who you refer to as sweepyface was not been investigated by the police, but you know that.
You would also know if you had taken time to read, that I any many other people have condemned her activities.
What I have failed to see is any attempt from you whatsoever to condemn the people who are mccann supporters, clearly trolls, and, who have threatened and sent vile posts/tweets to others.
Now I have condemned those on both sides who have carried out these kind of activities.
HAVE YOU ?
I’ve seen plenty of examples of the vile internet campaign directed at the McCann family … one family … please show us all your equivalent from “mccann supporters”. Please don't refer to your so called submissions to the authorities ... let us see the vile posts/tweets to which you constantly refer.
One idiot tweeting insults to another idiot tweeting insults back ... isn't on a par with the #McCann WATERBOARD list Alfred posted yesterday from one of the very sick individual targeting the McCann family.
If you make a claim you must be able to substantiate it.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 09:04:17 AM
I’ve seen plenty of examples of the vile internet campaign directed at the McCann family … one family … please show us all your equivalent from “mccann supporters”. Please don't refer to your so called submissions to the authorities ... let us see the vile posts/tweets to which you constantly refer.
One idiot tweeting insults to another idiot tweeting insults back ... isn't on a par with the #McCann WATERBOARD list Alfred posted yesterday from one of the very sick individual targeting the McCann family.
If you make a claim you must be able to substantiate it.
Yes, that would be a good idea but it won't be forth-coming as there simply is nothing remotely approaching the scale of hateful lunacy directed at the McCann family coming from McCann supporters towards, say, Amaral or Bennett. There simply are not dozens and dozens of McCann supporters dedicated to tweeting and posting hateful slurs and insane suggestions about waterboarding etc about Amaral et al on a 24/7 basis. If there was I would be equally disturbed and disgusted by their behaviour.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 15, 2014, 09:05:43 AM
Just to get some perspective, there are thousands of people in this country that are in dispute with neighbours. They definitely know where they live and the unpleasantness is often face to face and cannot be walked away from. The police find it very difficult to take action in most of these cases.
I think enormous problems might arise if one set of neighbours began to recruit others from near and afar to persecute and hound the neighbours with whom they are having a dispute.
I definitely think there would be issues if they published very clear photographs of the neighbours’ children on the internet and began loudly discussing their times and route to school.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 09:05:50 AM
I’ve seen plenty of examples of the vile internet campaign directed at the McCann family … one family … please show us all your equivalent from “mccann supporters”. Please don't refer to your so called submissions to the authorities ... let us see the vile posts/tweets to which you constantly refer.
One idiot tweeting insults to another idiot tweeting insults back ... isn't on a par with the #McCann WATERBOARD list Alfred posted yesterday from one of the very sick individual targeting the McCann family.
If you make a claim you must be able to substantiate it.
You just like Alfred are clearly one sided.
Your posting tends to indicate a strong 'personal interest' in defending the mccanns, I.M.O. of course.
and the denial that mccann supporting trolls are equally as bad.
Yes, that would be a good idea but it won't be forth-coming as there simply is nothing remotely approaching the scale of hateful lunacy directed at the McCann family coming from McCann supporters towards, say, Amaral or Bennett. There simply are not dozens and dozens of McCann supporters dedicated to tweeting and posting hateful slurs and insane suggestions about waterboarding etc about Amaral et al on a 24/7 basis. If there was I would be equally disturbed and disgusted by their behaviour.
Really.
No hateful slurs against Amaral.
Who are you trying to kid brietta ?
As to Bennett, he is a very foolish man and is paying the price for that. He also has received venom from mccann supporters as well.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 15, 2014, 09:18:15 AM
As for the rest, I will leave the LAW to deal with them.
Thank you. I could have written that and posted it to myself … you are so tiresomely predictable.
There is absolutely no precedent or equivalent any where in the world for the campaign directed against the McCann family ... I think you will find that there is huge public approval that action is taken to have it stopped sooner rather than later, as more and more ordinary individuals or someone in their family falls prey to internet abuse ... and it is a bit disgraceful that the authorities have watched the McCanns being persecuted for over seven years.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 09:24:34 AM
Thank you. I could have written that and posted it to myself … you are so tiresomely predictable.
There is absolutely no precedent or equivalent any where in the world for the campaign directed against the McCann family ... I think you will find that there is huge public approval that action is taken to have it stopped sooner rather than later, as more and more ordinary individuals or someone in their family falls prey to internet abuse ... and it is a bit disgraceful that the authorities have watched the McCanns being persecuted for over seven years.
No brietta.
I didn't write that link, it was posted on amazon as just one example of mccann supporting troll behaviour
Actually it is people such as yourself who are TIRELESSLY PREDICTABLE in your defense of the mccanns.
Essentially, you are in denial.
That is so clear cut in your posts.
You demonstrate repeatedly, a close attachment to the mccanns.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 15, 2014, 09:38:15 AM
I didn't write that link, it was posted on amazon as just one example of mccann supporting troll behaviour
Actually it is people such as yourself who are TIRELESSLY PREDICTABLE in your defense of the mccanns.
Essentially, you are in denial.
That is so clear cut in your posts.
You demonstrate repeatedly, a close attachment to the mccanns.
LOL - at the supreme irony of those comments.
What ' close attachment' are you claiming Brietta has with the McCanns. You need to clarify that statement or withdraw it IMO.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 09:48:59 AM
And what if I or Brietta actually DID have a close attachment to the McCanns - would that make our support of them more or less comprehensible to individuals like Stephen, I wonder...? What would be so heinous about those with a close attachment to the family of a missing child speaking up for them online?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 15, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
Lady Farq Hall seems to have it right:
Surely you cannot be so blind that this is a blatant attempt to discredit [ censored word ] ?
Quite.
ETA
Why on earth is p - r - o a censored word?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 10:07:58 AM
Surely you cannot be so blind that this is a blatant attempt to discredit [ censored word ] ?
Quite.
ETA
Why on earth is p - r - o a censored word?
You do realize ferryman, that works both ways.
How do i know, or for that matter anybody else, whether or not people have been making posts/tweets to throw bad light on those who don't believe the mccamns ?
An inherent possibility.
IMO of course.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 10:14:06 AM
And what if I or Brietta actually DID have a close attachment to the McCanns - would that make our support of them more or less comprehensible to individuals like Stephen, I wonder...? What would be so heinous about those with a close attachment to the family of a missing child speaking up for them online?
That ifs freedom of choice of course.
However, as we have seen, there is a failure to condemn mccann supporting trolls.
I.M.O. of course. 8)-)))
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 15, 2014, 10:18:22 AM
Do all these blustering "heartfelt" posts mean that pre-empting authorised investigations by the police by "dossier-wavers" selecting and confronting their own chosen targets via the press is approved of, then .............or not?
Do you think there will be more such doorsteppings, or might the dossier compilers be on dodgy ground both legally and morally in "researching" and confronting their own choice of target ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 15, 2014, 10:20:12 AM
The law relating to this is complex and undeveloped, with little modern case law as yet. But it may be helpful to try to make some sense of all this:
In law, you can distinguish between
(a) real, identifyable people. (e.g. The McCanns, Amaral, Bennett etc)
(b) Those who are anaonymous, and hide behind a username (e.g Sweepyface, Biretta, Stephen2500, Wonderfulspan, jean-pierre).
And also between
(c) Combatants (for want of a better term ) - those who actively participate in discussions online on twitter, facebook, blogs, forums etc - e.g. those in (b) and those in category (a) who do engage in online activity. (e.g. Bennett, and those whose real identity is revealed
(d) Non Combatants - those who do not engage in online stuff - e.g. The McCanns, Amaral.
Of course the boundaries between these can get blurred, but for the sake of this they will have to do.
In law, while someone is identifyable only by a usename, they cannot suffer injury. i.e. J-P can call Stephen2500 or wonderfulspam or biretta whatever he wants, and accuse them of whatever he likes, with no consequences at all in law. So getting exercised about Vee's posting is not correct - at this point. There is no criminal or civil action that can be taken.
All users must be aware that they may be identified. Maybe by being "outed" But also their ISP can be forced to reveal details of the user, where there is a possibility of civil or criminal action.
So people in categories (b) and (c) can go at each other hammer and tongs, if they so wish. In fact some forums have a sort of "rumpus room" where anything goes.
But as soon as they start on categories (a) and (d) they run a serious risk of falling foul of the criminal law, or of facing action for defamation.
Of course, once someone is actually unmasked, they may themselves then fall into both category (a) and (c). At this point they may be able to take action against those abusing them, and invoke a criminal complaint or a civil action. However, their own posting history would be considered, and the principle of volenti non fit injuria (to he who is willing no harm can be done) will come into play, and so someone with a vitriolic posting history who is subsequently unmasked and identified would be unlikely to succeed in any legal action.
Which underlines the sense of only posting things online that you would say face to face. You never know when you might be called on it. This applies to both sides, of course.
But I would be fascinated to see evidence of the actual scale of abuse directed at McCann doubters. (those in category (b) and (c) do not count, obviously.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 10:25:30 AM
Do all these blustering "heartfelt" posts mean that pre-empting authorised investigations by the police by "dossier-wavers" selecting and confronting their own chosen targets via the press is approved of, then .............or not?
Do you think there will be more such doorsteppings, or might the dossier compilers be on dodgy ground both legally and morally in "researching" and confronting their own choice of target ?
If I were to now send that list of "waterboarding" tweets to the police and the media (and remember that list is only a fraction of the total number) would that be illegal or morally wrong in your view?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 15, 2014, 10:27:49 AM
How do i know, or for that matter anybody else, whether or not people have been making posts/tweets to throw bad light on those who don't believe the mccamns ?
An inherent possibility.
IMO of course.
Those who don't believe the McCanns have little (or no) leg to stand on.
The British police believe they are innocent.
They Portuguese police believe they are innocent.
The Portuguese prosecutors who presided over the shelved enquiry believe they are innocent.
The renewed investigation is not into the McCanns or any of their friends.
What more do you want?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 10:35:23 AM
If I were to now send that list of "waterboarding" tweets to the police and the media (and remember that list is only a fraction of the total number) would that be illegal or morally wrong in your view?
You miss the point...............Of course sending lists of tweets to the police wouldn`t be morally or legally wrong in my view..........or anybody else`s.
Do you not see the difference between that and the unauthorised "researching/stalking" and D.I.Y. pre-emptive confronting of a target by yourselves via the press ?
It is for the law to investigate these matters from both sides of the McCann issue............Not dossier wavers who are frustrated because they aren`t getting their own way in terms of "action" against their selected targets.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 10:44:30 AM
You miss the point...............Of course sending lists of tweets to the police wouldn`t be morally or legally wrong in my view..........or anybody else`s.
Do you not see the difference between that and the unauthorised "researching/stalking" and D.I.Y. pre-emptive confronting of a target by yourselves via the press ?
It is for the law to investigate these matters from both sides of the McCann issue............Not dossier wavers who are frustrated because they aren`t getting their own way in terms of "action" against their selected targets.
I'm not sure I follow. Are you blaming McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News?
Out of interest, do you think the media has no place in exposing potential criminal activity? Should for example the Telegraph have kept quiet when it received information about the MPS expenses fiddling, for fear it might cost the MPs in question their reputation, livelihoods and possibly send one or two of them over the edge?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 15, 2014, 10:48:10 AM
The law relating to this is complex and undeveloped, with little modern case law as yet. But it may be helpful to try to make some sense of all this:
In law, you can distinguish between
(a) real, identifyable people. (e.g. The McCanns, Amaral, Bennett etc)
(b) Those who are anaonymous, and hide behind a username (e.g Sweepyface, Biretta, Stephen2500, Wonderfulspan, jean-pierre).
And also between
(c) Combatants (for want of a better term ) - those who actively participate in discussions online on twitter, facebook, blogs, forums etc - e.g. those in (b) and those in category (a) who do engage in online activity. (e.g. Bennett, and those whose real identity is revealed
(d) Non Combatants - those who do not engage in online stuff - e.g. The McCanns, Amaral.
Of course the boundaries between these can get blurred, but for the sake of this they will have to do.
In law, while someone is identifyable only by a usename, they cannot suffer injury. i.e. J-P can call Stephen2500 or wonderfulspam or biretta whatever he wants, and accuse them of whatever he likes, with no consequences at all in law. So getting exercised about Vee's posting is not correct - at this point. There is no criminal or civil action that can be taken.
All users must be aware that they may be identified. Maybe by being "outed" But also their ISP can be forced to reveal details of the user, where there is a possibility of civil or criminal action.
So people in categories (b) and (c) can go at each other hammer and tongs, if they so wish. In fact some forums have a sort of "rumpus room" where anything goes.
But as soon as they start on categories (a) and (d) they run a serious risk of falling foul of the criminal law, or of facing action for defamation.
Of course, once someone is actually unmasked, they may themselves then fall into both category (a) and (c). At this point they may be able to take action against those abusing them, and invoke a criminal complaint or a civil action. However, their own posting history would be considered, and the principle of volenti non fit injuria (to he who is willing no harm can be done) will come into play, and so someone with a vitriolic posting history who is subsequently unmasked and identified would be unlikely to succeed in any legal action.
Which underlines the sense of only posting things online that you would say face to face. You never know when you might be called on it. This applies to both sides, of course.
But I would be fascinated to see evidence of the actual scale of abuse directed at McCann doubters. (those in category (b) and (c) do not count, obviously.
8((()*/ Excellent post, J-P, very easy to understand.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 10:49:34 AM
I'm not sure I follow. Are you blaming McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News?
Out of interest, do you think the media has no place in exposing potential criminal activity? Should for example the Telegraph have kept quiet when it received information about the MPS expenses fiddling, for fear it might cost the MPs in question their reputation, livelihoods and possibly send one or two of them over the edge?
Now alfred, Sky News took the law into their own hands, didn't they.
Acted as vigilantes, didn't they ?
The Police weren't investigating Brenda.
Are you supporting vigilante action perchance ?
I.M.O. of course.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 15, 2014, 11:14:48 AM
Doesn't everyone here have a one sided opinion? Are there actually any fence sitters?
I think the question itself might just be on topic. Not sure about the replies, so if there are any then please could you try to relate it to the topic. Or perhaps we could have a new topic.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 15, 2014, 11:16:39 AM
I'm not sure I follow. Are you blaming McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News?
Out of interest, do you think the media has no place in exposing potential criminal activity? Should for example the Telegraph have kept quiet when it received information about the MPS expenses fiddling, for fear it might cost the MPs in question their reputation, livelihoods and possibly send one or two of them over the edge?
I`m not sure I follow.............Are you saying that McCann supporters disapprove of the actions of Sky News in confronting a selected target and were in no way involved with Sky News and the dossier?
Out of interest, do you think the media has a place in pre-empting a police investigation into alleged internet abuse apparently already under way?...........
The dossier/press unauthorised pre-emptive strike on targets issue is a tricky one for the McCann family and their supporters..............hence the bluster, emotive high-moral-ground posturing posts...........( and your distraction arguments.)
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 15, 2014, 11:19:11 AM
I`m not sure I follow.............Are you saying that McCann supporters disapprove of the actions of Sky News in confronting a selected target and were in no way involved with Sky News and the dossier?
Out of interest, do you think the media has a place in pre-empting a police investigation into alleged internet abuse apparently already under way?...........
The dossier/press unauthorised pre-emptive strike on targets issue is a tricky one for the McCann family and their supporters..............hence the bluster, emotive high-moral-ground posturing posts...........( and your distraction arguments.)
There is a fine tradition of investigative reporting ... which is despised by many Governments ... and individuals who have a lot to hide.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 11:25:06 AM
I`m not sure I follow.............Are you saying that McCann supporters disapprove of the actions of Sky News in confronting a selected target and were in no way involved with Sky News and the dossier?
Out of interest, do you think the media has a place in pre-empting a police investigation into alleged internet abuse apparently already under way?...........
The dossier/press unauthorised pre-emptive strike on targets issue is a tricky one for the McCann family and their supporters..............hence the bluster, emotive high-moral-ground posturing posts...........( and your distraction arguments.)
How tiresome that you can only answer my questions with your own questions. Let's start again. You answer mine and I'll answer yours, OK?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 11:27:18 AM
I'm not sure I follow. Are you blaming McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News?
Out of interest, do you think the media has no place in exposing potential criminal activity? Should for example the Telegraph have kept quiet when it received information about the MPS expenses fiddling, for fear it might cost the MPs in question their reputation, livelihoods and possibly send one or two of them over the edge?
By no means can you blame all McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News but you can blame the individual(s) who sent the dossier to them when SY refused to do anything.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 11:30:59 AM
By no means can you blame all McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News but you can blame the individual(s) who sent the dossier to them when SY refused to do anything.
Blame them for what Sky News did? Really? So, Sky News is simply a tool at the disposal of McCann supporters is it? It's morally wrong or even illegal to take evidence of wrong-doing to the media then in your view is it?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 11:34:05 AM
Blame them for what Sky News did? Really? So, Sky News is simply a tool at the disposal of McCann supporters is it? It's morally wrong or even illegal to take evidence of wrong-doing to the media then in your view is it?
No doubt it was the same people who contacted Sky News the morning after Madeleine disappeared. These people have a lot to answer for and have a very clear agenda… all in my opinion of course!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 15, 2014, 11:37:48 AM
By no means can you blame all McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News but you can blame the individual(s) who sent the dossier to them when SY refused to do anything.
yep they took the law into their own hands and it resulted in the death of a women
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 15, 2014, 11:42:05 AM
No doubt it was the same people who contacted Sky News the morning after Madeleine disappeared. These people have a lot to answer for and have a very clear agenda… all in my opinion of course!
And what would that agenda be then? According to Kate McCann the first Sky heard of Madeleine's disappearance was from the Press Association and from seeing one of their friends on GMTV on the morning of the 4th. So where is your evidence for your claim?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 15, 2014, 11:46:02 AM
Your mind-set and the lengths you go to to defend the indefensible make me shudder.
I`ve just deleted my response ...........sheer waste of time.
If you don`t get the principle, fair enough.
it is beyond my thinking why they love the mcanns so much why do they love them so much and defend them so much??
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
By the way, note not one single comment of disgust, incredulity or condemnation of the list of tweets I posted up last night from anyof the "sceptics". In fact they seem to have been completely ignored by this group, who prefer instead to condemn as illegal and / or immoral the people who would rather see this sort of online abuse halted. You really couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 15, 2014, 11:49:10 AM
By the way, note not one single comment of disgust, incredulity or condemnation of the list of tweets I posted up last night from anyof the "sceptics". In fact they seem to have been completely ignored by this group, who prefer instead to condemn as illegal and / or immoral the people who would rather see this sort of online abuse halted. You really couldn't make it up.
You really don't read peoples posts, do you Alfred.
TRY READING.
It helps.
Then condemn the trolls who support the mccanns.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 15, 2014, 11:54:09 AM
You really don't read peoples posts, do you Alfred.
TRY READING.
It helps.
Then condemn the trolls who support the mccanns.
on another thread i realised and posted the mcann supporters are just like oscar pitorious supporters all starstruck i highly doubt oscar will get jail i hope im wrong but there is as much bias in that case as this oine
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 15, 2014, 11:58:52 AM
By the way, note not one single comment of disgust, incredulity or condemnation of the list of tweets I posted up last night from anyof the "sceptics". In fact they seem to have been completely ignored by this group, who prefer instead to condemn as illegal and / or immoral the people who would rather see this sort of online abuse halted. You really couldn't make it up.
...........so after we`ve all expressed our disgust, incredulity and condemnation of tweets from both sides...........
...........are we then to follow it up by saying that it`s therefore fine to pre-empt a police investigation by selecting a target and confronting him/her via the press?
Is that what you want to happen?
What exactly are you trying to say?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 15, 2014, 11:59:14 AM
I'm not sure I follow. Are you blaming McCann supporters for the actions of Sky News?
Out of interest, do you think the media has no place in exposing potential criminal activity? Should for example the Telegraph have kept quiet when it received information about the MPS expenses fiddling, for fear it might cost the MPs in question their reputation, livelihoods and possibly send one or two of them over the edge?
A very interesting parallel. The House of Commons tried to supress details, but following high court action in 2008 was overruled, with details being authorised but with details redacted.
In 2009 the Telegraph received leaked uncencored details which the published, and the rest is history. Following the logic of some members here, the Telegraph journalist should be censured for leaking details.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 15, 2014, 12:04:04 PM
A very interesting parallel. The House of Commons tried to supress details, but following high court action in 2008 was overruled, with details being authorised but with details redacted.
In 2009 the Telegraph received leaked uncencored details which the published, and the rest is history. Following the logic of some members here, the Telegraph journalist should be censured for leaking details.
Was Brenda Leyland a public servant? NO
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 12:05:59 PM
By the way, note not one single comment of disgust, incredulity or condemnation of the list of tweets I posted up last night from anyof the "sceptics". In fact they seem to have been completely ignored by this group, who prefer instead to condemn as illegal and / or immoral the people who would rather see this sort of online abuse halted. You really couldn't make it up.
I condemn them without reservation as I do McCann trolls who are guilty of the exact same abuse.
Always remembering that there is a fine line between abuse and criminal activity. Brenda Leyland did not commit any crime imo.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 15, 2014, 12:07:33 PM
sky and those who handed in the dossier their actions sent brenda over the edge
So what is your solution, Carly?
Should everyione on the internet be allowed to post whatever they like with no sanction, and no investigation by journalists?
Should everyone be allowed to remain anonymous?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 12:12:27 PM
Brunty and Sky News did wrong and they know it. They were played for the fools they are, no wonder Brunt has disappeared.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 15, 2014, 12:14:35 PM
Well........ there seems to be a huge effort to link what happened in the confrontation of Mrs Leyland by sky news waving a dossier compiled by supporters of the McCanns,............. (when a police investigation was already under way)...............with all sorts of examples of investigative journalism in order to sanitise or deflect from the awkward issues surrounding this particular issue.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on October 15, 2014, 12:16:53 PM
I know what you were doing. It's a shame you find mocking my posting style more interesting than actually addressing the points I was making, but your choice.
Oh dear Alfred R Jones..........Your methods are so transparent and predictable!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 15, 2014, 12:19:17 PM
Brunty and Sky News did wrong and they know it. They were played for the fools they are, no wonder Brunt has disappeared.
the mcann supporters dont see anything they did was wrong
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 15, 2014, 12:25:08 PM
I can see that there are those who are uncomfortable discussing the theme of the thread ... which concerns the trolls who have taken it upon themselves to hound the McCann family for over seven years.
The person who submitted the dossier to the police is to be excoriated ... for what? ... submitting a document to the police? What then of the people who have continually petitioned and submitted FOI and, dare I say it, dossiers against the McCanns to the police over a seven year period?
Martin Brunt is being hounded with facebook pages etc set up specifically to have him sacked ... for what? ... for doing his job and contacting a person who had tweeted to him in a situation which then suddenly became newsworthy? When he was reporting word for word the lies emanating from Portugal concerning the Drs McCann and their friends ... he was a great guy.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 15, 2014, 12:26:22 PM
on another thread i realised and posted the mcann supporters are just like oscar pitorious supporters all starstruck i highly doubt oscar will get jail i hope im wrong but there is as much bias in that case as this oine
It's obvious that Oscar is as guilty as sin.
The judge only found him guilty of culpable homicide, but he's a murderer, 100%.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 15, 2014, 12:26:32 PM
...........so after we`ve all expressed our disgust, incredulity and condemnation of tweets from both sides...........
...........are we then to follow it up by saying that it`s therefore fine to pre-empt a police investigation by selecting a target and confronting him/her via the press?
Is that what you want to happen?
What exactly are you trying to say?
Firstly, what disgust, incredulity and condemnation have you actually expressed concerning the tweets I posted up yesterday? None, that's what.
Secondly, how does highlighting these tweets pre-empt a police investigation exactly? Do you know for sure that the police are even aware of these particular tweets? Why shouldn't I or anyone else including Sky News challenge the depravity on display in such a twitter feed? For fear that a poor little troll might self-harm? Is that what you're saying? That one must never expose anyone suspected of any sort of criminal or anti-social behaviour for fear that they may take their own lives? Well sorry, but if you go out of your way to solicit thousands of followers on twitter and then tweet tens of thousands of deranged tweets about waterboarding the McCanns (amongst other things) then you shouldn't be especially surprised if the press and / or police eventually start taking an interest in you and the sort of person you might be.
The likelihood is the police will do nothing about this particular individual so should we as a civilised society simply accept that such abuse goes on and learn to live with it, or should we shine a light on it, so that it makes those perpetrators feel as uncomfortable as their unfortunate targets?
And the insane hypocrisy on show here is that many "sceptics" have spent a considerable amount of time and effort desperately trying to persuade the media and authors such as S & S to do critically investigative pieces on the McCanns, and then berate these same journalists when they don't mention (for example) the Gaspar statements.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 15, 2014, 12:29:28 PM
in my opinion yes there is a choice to read things or not no one forces anyone to read anything
I presume you apply that to Mrs. Leyland - who according to some was pushed over the edge by reading tweets which followed the Sky programme. If you think that is true (which I don't) - then as you say - no-one forced her to read them.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 15, 2014, 12:38:02 PM
You don`t really know that it was "the consequences of the removal of the cloak of anonymity" which she couldn`t cope with.
We actually don`t know all that was said to her.
As regards cloaks of anonymity.............Do you think the dossier compilers could cope with its removal in similar circumstances?
Of course I dont really know - nobody does, and that will probably remain the case.
But the fact is that she was clearly an active participant, and one assumes knew what she was doing.
I have no idea whether the dossier compilers could "cope with its removal in similar circumstances?". But it is a possibility for all of us. I assume they would be prepared to stand behind anything they have said or done.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 15, 2014, 12:48:17 PM
Firstly, what disgust, incredulity and condemnation have you actually expressed concerning the tweets I posted up yesterday? None, that's what.
Secondly, how does highlighting these tweets pre-empt a police investigation exactly? Do you know for sure that the police are even aware of these particular tweets? Why shouldn't I or anyone else including Sky News challenge the depravity on display in such a twitter feed? For fear that a poor little troll might self-harm? Is that what you're saying? That one must never expose anyone suspected of any sort of criminal or anti-social behaviour for fear that they may take their own lives? Well sorry, but if you go out of your way to solicit thousands of followers on twitter and then tweet tens of thousands of deranged tweets about waterboarding the McCanns (amongst other things) then you shouldn't be especially surprised if the press and / or police eventually start taking an interest in you and the sort of person you might be.
The likelihood is the police will do nothing about this particular individual so should we as a civilised society simply accept that such abuse goes on and learn to live with it, or should we shine a light on it, so that it makes those perpetrators feel as uncomfortable as their unfortunate targets?
And the insane hypocrisy on show here is that many "sceptics" have spent a considerable amount of time and effort desperately trying to persuade the media and authors such as S & S to do critically investigative pieces on the McCanns, and then berate these same journalists when they don't mention (for example) the Gaspar statements.
Good old Alf. "The sort of person you might be". Doing the very thing he is criticising the "trolls" for. Ho hum
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 12:51:58 PM
Firstly, what disgust, incredulity and condemnation have you actually expressed concerning the tweets I posted up yesterday? None, that's what. [/b] Secondly, how does highlighting these tweets pre-empt a police investigation exactly? Do you know for sure that the police are even aware of these particular tweets? Why shouldn't I or anyone else including Sky News challenge the depravity on display in such a twitter feed? For fear that a poor little troll might self-harm? Is that what you're saying? That one must never expose anyone suspected of any sort of criminal or anti-social behaviour for fear that they may take their own lives? Well sorry, but if you go out of your way to solicit thousands of followers on twitter and then tweet tens of thousands of deranged tweets about waterboarding the McCanns (amongst other things) then you shouldn't be especially surprised if the press and / or police eventually start taking an interest in you and the sort of person you might be.
The likelihood is the police will do nothing about this particular individual so should we as a civilised society simply accept that such abuse goes on and learn to live with it, or should we shine a light on it, so that it makes those perpetrators feel as uncomfortable as their unfortunate targets?
And the insane hypocrisy on show here is that many "sceptics" have spent a considerable amount of time and effort desperately trying to persuade the media and authors such as S & S to do critically investigative pieces on the McCanns, and then berate these same journalists when they don't mention (for example) the Gaspar statements.
*sighs* Give me strength, Alfred!
I haven`t expressed disgust, incredulity and condemnation at your tweet examples NOR the ones from the other side!
I`m disgusted and incredulous at the whole lot of them!
Tit for Tat deflects from the issue .
The act of "Highlighting the tweets" as you put it, is not the principle behind my points surrounding the unauthorised doorstepping of a target by the press, waving a dossier compiled by supporters of the family, whilst the same dossier was already in the hands of the police, with alleged abusers already under investigation by them .
Waxing hysterical at "sceptics" isn`t going to take that sticky issue away.......and most of your rant is best ignored........
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 12:58:13 PM
I haven`t expressed disgust, incredulity and condemnation at your tweet examples NOR the ones from the other side!
I`m disgusted and incredulous at the whole lot of them!
Tit for Tat deflects from the issue .
The act of "Highlighting the tweets" as you put it, is not the principle behind my points surrounding the unauthorised doorstepping of a target by the press, waving a dossier compiled by supporters of the family, whilst the same dossier was already in the hands of the police, with alleged abusers already under investigation by them .
Waxing hysterical at "sceptics" isn`t going to take that sticky issue away.......and most of your rant is best ignored........
Ignore away, if it makes things easier for you to deal with, I don't mind. Your post is a bit confusing tbh. I don't think the press needs permission from any authority to doorstep anyone, but if you think they should be controlled by law then perhaps you should join the Hacked Off campaign, if you're not already a supporter.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 01:12:30 PM
Ignore away, if it makes things easier for you to deal with, I don't mind. Your post is a bit confusing tbh. I don't think the press needs permission from any authority to doorstep anyone, but if you think they should be controlled by law then perhaps you should join the Hacked Off campaign, if you're not already a supporter.
I'm a member of the Hacked Off campaign and I agree there should be stronger laws to protect the innocent public from aggressive reporters like we have seen from Sky recently.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 01:16:09 PM
I'm a member of the Hacked Off campaign and I agree there should be stronger laws to protect the innocent public from aggressive reporters like we have seen from Sky recently.
Fair enough. The irony is that many McCann "sceptics" who are now up in arms about Sky's behaviour were also virulently opposed to Hacked Off because of Gerry McCann's involvement.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 15, 2014, 01:28:41 PM
Is there any difference between what Sky News did to Brenda and how investigators doorstep criminals/fraudsters on programmes like Watchdog & Rogue Traders (where matters have not necessarily been reported to the police) ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
Is there any difference between what Sky News did to Brenda and how investigators doorstep criminals/fraudsters on programmes like Watchdog & Rogue Traders (where matters have not necessarily been reported to the police) ?
What crime had this lady been charged with exactly ?
..and for the umpteenth time, sky news claimed she was being investigated by the police, which she wasn't.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Moderator on October 15, 2014, 01:33:41 PM
I'm a member of the Hacked Off campaign and I agree there should be stronger laws to protect the innocent public from aggressive reporters like we have seen from Sky recently.
This pic was recently tweeted by our sister site on Twitter as an example of aggressive reporting. This is technically an assault but who cares?
(http://i.imgur.com/7mHpJrd.jpg?1)
Sky reporter Lisa Holland manhandles Brett King whose son Ashya is currently having cancer treatment.
What crime had this lady been charged with exactly ?
..and for the umpteenth time, sky news claimed she was being investigated by the police, which she wasn't.
Like the people being investigated on the programmes I mentioned - not charged at the time. However, Leics police had been sent a dossier of names & I have yet to see a statement from them confirming that they have investigated the complaint & no charges will be forthcoming against anyone. If Sky were also sent a copy of the dossier - so what? Is that illegal?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 01:55:29 PM
Is there any difference between what Sky News did to Brenda and how investigators doorstep criminals/fraudsters on programmes like Watchdog & Rogue Traders (where matters have not necessarily been reported to the police) ?
Brenda Leyland was not a criminal.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 01:57:47 PM
Like the people being investigated on the programmes I mentioned - not charged at the time. However, Leics police had been sent a dossier of names & I have yet to see a statement from them confirming that they have investigated the complaint & no charges will be forthcoming against anyone. If Sky were also sent a copy of the dossier - so what? Is that illegal?
Sending a dossier anonymously renders it without credibility, likewise those faceless idiots behind it.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 01:58:35 PM
Like the people being investigated on the programmes I mentioned - not charged at the time. However, Leics police had been sent a dossier of names & I have yet to see a statement from them confirming that they have investigated the complaint & no charges will be forthcoming against anyone. If Sky were also sent a copy of the dossier - so what? Is that illegal?
What about Crimewatch, in which suspects photographs are broadcast to the entire nation? None of them has been charged either - perhaps sceptics would like to see this practise banned? How about the media interest in the man widely assumed to have killed Alice Gross? Perhaps it was the media attention that drove this man to kill himself - does the media have his blood on their hands too?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 15, 2014, 02:00:22 PM
She had broken online media laws - is that not a criminal offence? She targeted a family she did not know & made many malicious & untrue remarks about them for all to see, Please don't turn her into some sort of martyr.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 15, 2014, 02:05:59 PM
She had broken online media laws - is that not a criminal offence? She targeted a family she did not know & made many malicious & untrue remarks about them for all to see, Please don't turn her into some sort of martyr.
Sky News have made her that, because of the lies they told, and then her unfortunate death after they exposed her to the public.
What she did was wrong, but so was what Sky News did.
Hence Brunt's 'disappearance'.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 15, 2014, 02:24:31 PM
Crimewatch and similar media involvement in investigations to trace suspects are authorised by the police in order to solve crimes already identified by them.
How can that be compared with unauthorised D.I.Y. targeting as per dossier/press of an individual not similarly sought by the police?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 15, 2014, 02:25:50 PM
Sky News have made her that, because of the lies they told, and then her unfortunate death after they exposed her to the public.
What she did was wrong, but so was what Sky News did.
Hence Brunt's 'disappearance'.
What lies did Sky news tell? Have you a link to a statement from the police saying the complaint against Brenda & others wasn't/isn't being investigated?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 15, 2014, 02:29:31 PM
Crimewatch and similar media involvement in investigations to trace suspects are authorised by the police in order to solve crimes already identified by them.
How can that be compared with unauthorised D.I.Y. targeting as per dossier/press of an individual not similarly sought by the police?
Is that right? Was Mark Williams Thomas authorised to doorstep paedophiles abroad which he had tracked down?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 02:32:59 PM
Crimewatch and similar media involvement in investigations to trace suspects are authorised by the police in order to solve crimes already identified by them.
How can that be compared with unauthorised D.I.Y. targeting as per dossier/press of an individual not similarly sought by the police?
Isn't the issue here the effecton a person of being targeted by the media regarding alleged participation in illegal activity before they've even been charged, let alone found guilty? The principle therefore is the same.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 15, 2014, 02:34:23 PM
Isn't the issue here the effecton a person of being targeted by the media regarding alleged participation in illegal activity before they've even been charged, let alone found guilty? The principle therefore is the same.
No.
The police, having identified a crime and requesting help from the media in tracing a suspect is not the same in principle as the media targeting and confronting an individual not even identified as a suspect by the police.......... in a "crime" not even identified by them, either.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 15, 2014, 02:50:19 PM
There are strict rules surrounding these activities but Brunt seems to have ignored them in the pursuance of what he thought was a juicy story.
Is there not evidence that she was already contacting Brunt? Who knows, she may have been bombarding him with emails - the content of which couldn't be made public. She was certainly OK about inviting him into her own home - hardly the actions of someone who felt hounded & persecuted (unlike the McCanns)
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 15, 2014, 02:52:57 PM
The police, having identified a crime and requesting help from the media in tracing a suspect is not the same in principle as the media targeting and confronting an individual not even identified as a suspect by the police.......... in a "crime" not even identified by them, either.
Happens all the time...have you not seen cowboy builders
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 15, 2014, 02:58:48 PM
The police, having identified a crime and requesting help from the media in tracing a suspect is not the same in principle as the media targeting and confronting an individual not even identified as a suspect by the police.......... in a "crime" not even identified by them, either.
I'm surprised to see you responding to my posts having vowed to ignore them, but thanks for your reply. I strongly suggest you campaign for a change in the law as you obviously feel very strongly about this. At the moment there is no law forbidding the media from challenging individuals that they believe may be involved in illegal or [ censored word]ocial behaviour. If you think it is correct that the media is forbidden from exposing such people then it is important you sign up to Hacked Off and push for such legislation to be implemented. Until you have done so I'm afraid I won't be taking what you have to say on this matter very seriously.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 15, 2014, 02:59:01 PM
Sending a dossier anonymously renders it without credibility, likewise those faceless idiots behind it.
If memory serves me well ... the dossier was handed to the police ... in person ... by a whistleblower who asked for anonymity ... for the simple reason she feared vilification, on-line attack, and for her personal safety.
Wonder what put those ideas into her head?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 15, 2014, 03:57:07 PM
need i remind you the mcanns unwitting or not put themselves in the spotlight by leaving children alone while they ate and drank?
What has that to do with the person who abducted Madeleine who seems to be blameless in all of this?
What has that to do with the search to find Madeleine which would not be happening without her parents ‘putting themselves in the spotlight’ to achieve it?
What has that to do with a seven year hate campaign orchestrated against Madeleine’s parents?
The Portuguese prosecutor is on record as considering “they had already suffered too much” who are these vile people who would add to that suffering and keep it up over a period of seven years?
Just like yourself they are believers in Groundhog day but it doesn't really excuse any who may have broken the law as will possibly be tested quite soon.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on October 15, 2014, 04:16:55 PM
The law relating to this is complex and undeveloped, with little modern case law as yet. But it may be helpful to try to make some sense of all this:
In law, you can distinguish between
(a) real, identifyable people. (e.g. The McCanns, Amaral, Bennett etc)
(b) Those who are anaonymous, and hide behind a username (e.g Sweepyface, Biretta, Stephen2500, Wonderfulspan, jean-pierre).
And also between
(c) Combatants (for want of a better term ) - those who actively participate in discussions online on twitter, facebook, blogs, forums etc - e.g. those in (b) and those in category (a) who do engage in online activity. (e.g. Bennett, and those whose real identity is revealed
(d) Non Combatants - those who do not engage in online stuff - e.g. The McCanns, Amaral.
Of course the boundaries between these can get blurred, but for the sake of this they will have to do.
In law, while someone is identifyable only by a usename, they cannot suffer injury. i.e. J-P can call Stephen2500 or wonderfulspam or biretta whatever he wants, and accuse them of whatever he likes, with no consequences at all in law. So getting exercised about Vee's posting is not correct - at this point. There is no criminal or civil action that can be taken.
All users must be aware that they may be identified. Maybe by being "outed" But also their ISP can be forced to reveal details of the user, where there is a possibility of civil or criminal action.
So people in categories (b) and (c) can go at each other hammer and tongs, if they so wish. In fact some forums have a sort of "rumpus room" where anything goes.
But as soon as they start on categories (a) and (d) they run a serious risk of falling foul of the criminal law, or of facing action for defamation.
Of course, once someone is actually unmasked, they may themselves then fall into both category (a) and (c). At this point they may be able to take action against those abusing them, and invoke a criminal complaint or a civil action. However, their own posting history would be considered, and the principle of volenti non fit injuria (to he who is willing no harm can be done) will come into play, and so someone with a vitriolic posting history who is subsequently unmasked and identified would be unlikely to succeed in any legal action.
Which underlines the sense of only posting things online that you would say face to face. You never know when you might be called on it. This applies to both sides, of course.
But I would be fascinated to see evidence of the actual scale of abuse directed at McCann doubters. (those in category (b) and (c) do not count, obviously.
Well done, JP. That seems to be the baseline. However, as you said, distinctions can be blurred.
A hypothetical example (based on an amalgamation of a few of the types of posts that I've seen online), what if someone, based (or pretending to be based) at the other end of the world, posting on a site hosted even further away, says something such as: "I dreamt last night that the McScamms were going to be waterboarded *innocent face* and that they revealed the truth about Margaret's murder #mccann".
And the post gets 200 "likes" or whatever the approval sign is, and umpteen RTs and favourites and leads to a rallying cry.
What are the legal implications?
- The attempt to disguise the names wouldn't be a defence in (UK) libel law, would it, if there is a reasonable assumption that people could guess who the parties are?
- What about the criminal side, including the international dimension?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 15, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
mcann supporters are hypocrites they love the mcanns but hate everybody else yet call us [ censored word ]
If that's what you think then why do you read their posts? No-one forces you to. There are other forums where you would never have to read a single word in support of the McCanns - and so wouldn't have to spend your time insulting posters because they happen to have a different opinion to yours.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 15, 2014, 04:56:06 PM
Well done, JP. That seems to be the baseline. However, as you said, distinctions can be blurred.
A hypothetical example (based on an amalgamation of a few of the types of posts that I've seen online), what if someone, based (or pretending to be based) at the other end of the world, posting on a site hosted even further away, says something such as: "I dreamt last night that the McScamms were going to be waterboarded *innocent face* and that they revealed the truth about Margaret's murder #mccann".
And the post gets 200 "likes" or whatever the approval sign is, and umpteen RTs and favourites and leads to a rallying cry.
What are the legal implications?
- The attempt to disguise the names wouldn't be a defence in (UK) libel law, would it, if there is a reasonable assumption that people could guess who the parties are?
- What about the criminal side, including the international dimension?
I am not sure what crime would have been committed under that particular scenario - it would all be innuendo, really. And the international dimenaion is one of the challenges to enforcement. It would be necessary to have the cooperation of the "home" police force.
Tricky but not impossible.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 15, 2014, 05:02:15 PM
I suggest you refer to the opening post on this topic.....
Strangely enough I already read that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 16, 2014, 09:35:44 AM
I wonder if those people in the public eye who have dared to support the McCanns, and as a direct result have been deluged with messages of hate, will be included in this police investigation.
Quote from Antonella Lazzeri- describing her experience of being trolled.
''When my daughter was six she googled my name writes Sun journalist Antonella Lazzeri. ''Why are people saying nasty things about you, Mummy? she said.
Luckily she was too young to understand what ''whore'' means, but she knew what the other words were, some of which were scrawled over doctored photos of me.
Since I started covering the Madeleine McCann story I have been ''trolled'' consistently in the most horrible, hideous way.
After one really vicious email, I'd had enough and did the one thing experts say not to - I replied. ''Why do you do this? I'm a mother, my child reads this, it upsets her. Why do you do this?'' I asked.
The woman immediately sent me a grovelling reply: ''I've had a bad day, I argued with my husband etc etc''
Really? does that give you the right to do what you do? End quote
It would come as no surprise to me if the same people who conduct their hate campaign against the McCanns on Twitter and FB are the same people who troll anyone who publicly expresses support for the McCanns. Lorraine Kelly for instance will no doubt have plenty of evidence for the police to use if necessary.
I sincerely hope that prosecutions will be the result of the police investigation. If not then that will be giving the 'green light' to the perpetrators that they can carry on breaking the law with impunity - and the abuse will get even worse than it is now imo. Who knows how far it will escalate - there are some seriously unhinged people out there imo.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 09:40:27 AM
I wonder if those people in the public eye who have dared to support the McCanns, and as a direct result have been deluged with messages of hate, will be included in this police investigation.
Quote from Antonella Lazzeri- describing her experience of being trolled.
''When my daughter was six she googled my name writes Sun journalist Antonella Lazzeri. ''Why are people saying nasty things about you, Mummy? she said.
Luckily she was too young to understand what ''whore'' means, but she knew what the other words were, some of which were scrawled over doctored photos of me.
Since I started covering the Madeleine McCann story I have been ''trolled'' consistently in the most horrible, hideous way.
After one really vicious email, I'd had enough and did the one thing experts say not to - I replied. ''Why do you do this? I'm a mother, my child reads this, it upsets her. Why do you do this?'' I asked.
The woman immediately sent me a grovelling reply: ''I've had a bad day, I argued with my husband etc etc''
Really? does that give you the right to do what you do? End quote
It would come as no surprise to me if the same people who conduct their hate campaign against the McCanns on Twitter and FB are the same people who troll anyone who publicly expresses support for the McCanns. Lorraine Kelly for instance will no doubt have plenty of evidence for the police to use if necessary.
I sincerely hope that prosecutions will be the result of the police investigation. If not then that will be giving the 'green light' to the perpetrators that they can carry on breaking the law with impunity - and the abuse will get even worse than it is now imo. Who knows how far it will escalate - there are some seriously unhinged people out there imo.
Why is it mccann supporters only look at one side ?
Remind me benice of who has died.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 16, 2014, 10:02:11 AM
Has the police investigation only just started then?
I understood from material posted here that internet abuse of the McCanns was already being monitored over at least the past year.
If the offensive messages to the McCanns and their supporters are google-able, or on twitter and openly viewable surely the police already had the technical expertise to research, identify and prosecute "offenders" ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 10:04:44 AM
Has the police investigation only just started then?
I understood from material posted here that internet abuse of the McCanns was already being monitored over at least the past year.
If the offensive messages to the McCanns and their supporters are google-able, or on twitter and openly viewable surely the police already had the technical expertise to research, identify and prosecute "offenders" ?
Good points Carew.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 16, 2014, 10:07:04 AM
Why is it mccann supporters only look at one side ?
Remind me benice of who has died.
I'll take a leaf out of your method of Tit for Tat posting Stephen and ask - why is it McCann sceptics only look at one side?
This thread is about the 'Investigation into McCann Internet trolls launched by the police.' My post relates to that.
If you want to discuss the content of my post - feel free.
According to you Mrs Leyland was not a troll - so why are you attempting to include her? Are you now claiming she was a troll?
IMO Until the inquest is over - any discussion about this lady should be avoided if possible - out of respect for her family and because we can only speculate at this time. In fact if I had my way - we would not be discussing her at all right now.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 10:11:43 AM
I'll take a leaf out of your method of Tit for Tat posting Stephen and ask - why is it McCann sceptics only look at one side?
This thread is about the 'Investigation into McCann Internet trolls launched by the police.' My post relates to that.
If you want to discuss the content of my post - feel free.
According to you Mrs Leyland was not a troll - so why are you attempting to include her? Are you now claiming she was a troll?
IMO Until the inquest is over - any discussion about this lady should be avoided if possible - out of respect for her family and because we can only speculate at this time. In fact if I had my way - we would not be discussing her at all right now.
I have already stated repeatedly, her tweets were unacceptable.
Your posts demonstrates very aptly the nature of one-dimensionality os some mccann supporters.
Thank you for that.
I.M.O. of course.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 16, 2014, 10:12:27 AM
Has the police investigation only just started then?
I understood from material posted here that internet abuse of the McCanns was already being monitored over at least the past year.
If the offensive messages to the McCanns and their supporters are google-able, or on twitter and openly viewable surely the police already had the technical expertise to research, identify and prosecute "offenders" ?
I presume because their enquiries are still ongoing and they haven't yet been concluded. Just goes to show the sheer enormity of the lawbreaking which has been taking place IMO.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 16, 2014, 10:16:12 AM
Is there a statement from the police ........... "An investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by the police?"
Any police spokesman reports to that effect........ or concerning the launch?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 16, 2014, 10:21:03 AM
If memory serves me well ... the dossier was handed to the police ... in person ... by a whistleblower who asked for anonymity ... for the simple reason she feared vilification, on-line attack, and for her personal safety.
Wonder what put those ideas into her head?
How can a person be a "whistleblower" when behaviour and material is already out in the open, already known to the police and available to them via their own investigation personnel?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 16, 2014, 10:33:50 AM
I'll take a leaf out of your method of Tit for Tat posting Stephen and ask - why is it McCann sceptics only look at one side?
This thread is about the 'Investigation into McCann Internet trolls launched by the police.' My post relates to that.
If you want to discuss the content of my post - feel free.
According to you Mrs Leyland was not a troll - so why are you attempting to include her? Are you now claiming she was a troll?
IMO Until the inquest is over - any discussion about this lady should be avoided if possible - out of respect for her family and because we can only speculate at this time. In fact if I had my way - we would not be discussing her at all right now.
A very sensible post.
I think Stephen et al are attempting to defend the indefensible and they know it; there can be no justification for the attacks on the McCann family.
As the offence becomes more and more prevalent more people, many of whom have been directly affected by online stalking and bullying, are seeing firsthand the awful effects of trolling on the victim.
This is reflected in the growing number of prosecutions, usually affecting one troll/stalker and one victim none of whom have suffered for a period of over seven years.
The level and type of abuse that has been unleashed on the McCann family is unprecedented and has been allowed to go on for far too long; there is nothing which can justify that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 16, 2014, 10:36:22 AM
I think Stephen et al are attempting to defend the indefensible and they know it; there can be no justification for the attacks on the McCann family.
As the offence becomes more and more prevalent more people, many of whom have been directly affected by online stalking and bullying, are seeing firsthand the awful effects of trolling on the victim.
This is reflected in the growing number of prosecutions, usually affecting one troll/stalker and one victim none of whom have suffered for a period of over seven years.
The level and type of abuse that has been unleashed on the McCann family is unprecedented and has been allowed to go on for far too long; there is nothing which can justify that.
Again just like benice, ONE-DIMENSIONAL.
and remember where this case started.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 16, 2014, 10:43:54 AM
I have no idea. Does it matter when the investigations began?
I imagine that given the size of the dossier presented to them the police will have quite a job on their hands collating the information to get evidence to present to the prosecution service; twitter accounts are not the only accounts they will be checking; maybe they are even checking out ringleaders and those who have opened forums and face book pages specifically to carry out 'research'; we can't really know.
I'm not expecting prosecutions any time soon ... but I am convinced there will be prosecutions.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 16, 2014, 10:52:24 AM
I imagine that given the size of the dossier presented to them the police will have quite a job on their hands collating the information to get evidence to present to the prosecution service; twitter accounts are not the only accounts they will be checking; maybe they are even checking out ringleaders and those who have opened forums and face book pages specifically to carry out 'research'; we can't really know.
I'm not expecting prosecutions any time soon ... but I am convinced there will be prosecutions.
I agree Brietta.
(must dash now)
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on October 16, 2014, 10:57:09 AM
Is there an official statement from the police that an investigation has been launched at all in relation to the dossier they were handed?
A Metropolitan Police spokesman last week confirmed officers were assessing the contents of ‘documentation’ which has been passed to officers and were consulting with the Crown Prosecution Service and the McCanns.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2781377/BREAKING-NEWS-Internet-troll-targeted-McCanns-dead-hotel-room-days-fleeing-home.html#ixzz3GIgyCFig Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 16, 2014, 10:58:29 AM
I imagine that given the size of the dossier presented to them the police will have quite a job on their hands collating the information to get evidence to present to the prosecution service; twitter accounts are not the only accounts they will be checking; maybe they are even checking out ringleaders and those who have opened forums and face book pages specifically to carry out 'research'; we can't really know.
I'm not expecting prosecutions any time soon ... but I am convinced there will be prosecutions.
Why was Sky News involved in "investigative journalism" then, when the information in this "sizeable dossier" was already being collated by the police?
What were the dossier compilers hoping to achieve by the involvement of Sky News?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 16, 2014, 11:15:09 AM
Why was Sky News involved in "investigative journalism" then, when the information in this "sizeable dossier" was already being collated by the police?
What were the dossier compilers hoping to achieve by the involvement of Sky News?
It seems likely, as the dossier had already been in the hands of the police since the 9th of September, that the compiler was told that no charges would be brought and this prompted them to go to the press to obtain their pound of flesh.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 16, 2014, 11:31:04 AM
A Metropolitan Police spokesman last week confirmed officers were assessing the contents of ‘documentation’ which has been passed to officers and were consulting with the Crown Prosecution Service and the McCanns.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2781377/BREAKING-NEWS-Internet-troll-targeted-McCanns-dead-hotel-room-days-fleeing-home.html#ixzz3GIgyCFig Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Thanks..........so Mrs Leyland hadn`t actually been interviewed by the police and it hadn`t been decided whether anything in the "documentation" would lead to a prosecution of anyone at all.
Since the material handed in was already freely available for the police to access and research ...............it seems that the compiler/s acted in frustration by involving the press, because their dossier hadn`t achieved the result they wanted from the police.
Is that about the size of it?
If so............all the emotive wordy bluster is a distraction from some uncomfortable issues.............and if the involvement of the dossier waving press is justifiable why has it stopped?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 16, 2014, 11:35:23 AM
Thanks..........so Mrs Leyland hadn`t actually been interviewed by the police and it hadn`t been decided whether anything in the "documentation" would lead to a prosecution of anyone at all.
Since the material handed in was already freely available for the police to access and research ...............it seems that the compiler/s acted in frustration by involving the press, because their dossier hadn`t achieved the result they wanted from the police.
Is that about the size of it?
vIf so............all the emotive wordy bluster is a bid from some uncomfortable issues.............and if the involvement of the dossier waving press is justifiable why has it stopped?
There is no way the authorities can go after every troll who breaks the law so they hope that by making an example of the few that the many will learn from it and desist.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 16, 2014, 12:21:45 PM
There is no way the authorities can go after every troll who breaks the law so they hope that by making an example of the few that the many will learn from it and desist.
We know that the authorities hadn`t made an example of Ms Leyland.............Individuals, via Sky News decided this for themselves and selected her from the "sizeable dossier" of alleged law breakers as outlined by Brietta.........including apparently "ringleaders", forum posters/owners and all sorts.
No one has given any reasons "why her" from amongst apparently so many to be made an example?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 12:23:11 PM
We know that the authorities hadn`t made an example of Ms Leyland.............Individuals, via Sky News decided this for themselves and selected her from the "sizeable dossier" of alleged law breakers as outlined by Brietta.........including apparently "ringleaders", forum posters/owners and all sorts.
No one has given any reasons "why her" from amongst apparently so many to be made an example?
Probably because she was easy meat...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 16, 2014, 12:31:54 PM
Pensioners and helpless old ladies is more his style.
I can't help wondering if his career, infront of the camera at least, is over.
Even if it isn't , then I think it's going to be quite sometime before he makes an appearence again.
So many lives messed up from Brenda to Brunt to Bed & Breakfast owners in PDL, at the root of it all, 2 parents who put their own needs before their kids. (or did something worse).
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 16, 2014, 02:25:14 PM
We know that the authorities hadn`t made an example of Ms Leyland.............Individuals, via Sky News decided this for themselves and selected her from the "sizeable dossier" of alleged law breakers as outlined by Brietta.........including apparently "ringleaders", forum posters/owners and all sorts.
No one has given any reasons "why her" from amongst apparently so many to be made an example?
Indeed, and are you awaiting an answer? please don't hold your breath!
If trolls have been threatening the McCanns and their children with death and or kidnapping or anything else which could cause alarm as has been mentioned so many times on the thread by Team Mc's army of internet troll busters, then WHERE ARE THEY? why do the police not go after THEM? why did Brunty not go after those really nasty trolls who are indeed breaking the law by threatening behavior.
*Holds breath*...
Phewwwwwwwwwwwwww lol no reply.
This does make Brenda's death all the more important. Her tweets were unkind, and may have caused upset, I think we need to look at the bigger picture- what can be more upsetting than losing a child to paeophiles?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 16, 2014, 02:42:45 PM
I can't help wondering if his career, infront of the camera at least, is over.
Even if it isn't , then I think it's going to be quite sometime before he makes an appearence again.
So many lives messed up from Brenda to Brunt to Bed & Breakfast owners in PDL, at the root of it all, 2 parents who put their own needs before their kids. (or did something worse).
we will soon see how good...or how pathetically bad your judgement is...Brenda Leyland was the cause of her own fate..unfortunately for her and her family
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 02:45:03 PM
we will soon see how good...or how pathetically bad your judgement is...Brenda Leyland was the cause of her own fate..unfortunately for her and her family
and that not only applies to Brenda, does it ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 16, 2014, 03:07:53 PM
A person can only be harassed if they are aware of the comments in the first place. As far as we know Brenda voiced her opinion as she was entitled to do but did not harass anyone let alone the McCanns. What she did was no worse than Kate McCanns comments that Amaral should feel fear or that Paiva was a f.....g tosser.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 16, 2014, 03:35:31 PM
There is no way the authorities can go after every troll who breaks the law so they hope that by making an example of the few that the many will learn from it and desist.
It seems there were those who thought they would continue to be able to avoid the consequences of their actions because so little has been done about it in the past.
There are those who may not be aware that their actions are not only immoral but actionable.
If no one was ever prosecuted for shoplifting would anyone stand in a queue at a checkout?
Perhaps an awareness that their activities may be illegal will give them pause for thought.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 03:49:44 PM
.....and the actions of the McCann's leaving their children by themselves in a foreign country, for several nights in a row without protection and irregular unverified checks , and let's not forget in unlocked accommodation.
Was that moral ?
What that fair on the children?
Did it have consequences ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 16, 2014, 04:01:19 PM
You are wrong there Davel. A person can only be harassed if they are aware of the comments in the first place. As far as we know Brenda voiced her opinion as she was entitled to do but did not harass anyone let alone the McCanns. What she did was no worse than Kate McCanns comments that Amaral should feel fear or that Paiva was a f.....g tosser.
No I am not wrong... Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing.
If you think that 50 posts a day are comparable to two statements by Kate then your judgement is totally skewed
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 16, 2014, 04:06:07 PM
No I am not wrong... Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing.
If you think that 50 posts a day are comparable to two statements by Kate then your judgement is totally skewed
There was a context in which those two statements were made ... and in the opinion of many when that context is considered they were actually very restrained indeed.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 04:07:50 PM
No I am not wrong... Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing.
If you think that 50 posts a day are comparable to two statements by Kate then your judgement is totally skewed
No Dave, you are frequently wrong.
You are trying to excuse one set of wrongs with another.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 16, 2014, 04:11:18 PM
You are trying to excuse one set of wrongs with another.
so Kate made 2 statements when she was at a very low ebb and Brenda Leyland made 6000 posts against a person who had never said a word about her...if you think those are comparable then you are an even bigger ********* than I ever thought. Your statement says a lot about you and others who continually harass the mccanns
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 04:14:30 PM
so Kate made 2 statements when she was at a very low ebb and Brenda Leyland made 6000 posts against a person who had never said a word about her...if you think those are comparable then you are an even bigger ********* than I ever thought. Your statement says a lot about you and others who continually harass the mccanns
Now Dave, just remind me who is responsible for this whole case ?
P.S. It wasn't Brenda.
As regards being a ****** dave, you excel at that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 16, 2014, 04:20:38 PM
so Kate made 2 statements when she was at a very low ebb and Brenda Leyland made 6000 posts against a person who had never said a word about her...if you think those are comparable then you are an even bigger ********* than I ever thought. Your statement says a lot about you and others who continually harass the mccanns
Low ebb my ass. That book would have been proof read and checked by the publisher's lawyers several times. The McCanns knew exactly what they were doing in having comments made about Amaral and Paiva so let's have no more stupid excuses.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 16, 2014, 04:29:10 PM
No I am not wrong... Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing.If you think that 50 posts a day are comparable to two statements by Kate then your judgement is totally skewed
.The offence is committed by sending the message. There is no requirement that any person sees the message or be offended by it ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(4) Communications which are grossly offensive, indecent, obscene or false
31. Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 makes it an offence to send or cause to be sent through a "public electronic communications network" a message or other matter that is "grossly offensive" or of an "indecent, obscene or menacing character". The same section also provides that it is an offence to send or cause to be sent a false message "for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another". The defendant must be shown to have intended or be aware that the message was grossly offensive, indecent or menacing, which can be inferred from the terms of the message or from the defendant's knowledge of the likely recipient. The offence is committed by sending the message. There is no requirement that any person sees the message or be offended by it.33.Every day many millions of communications are sent via social media and the application of section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988 and section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 to such comments creates the potential that a very large number of cases could be prosecuted before the courts. Taking together, for example, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube, there are likely to be hundreds of millions of communications every month.
Cyber stalking Harassment can take place on the internet and through the misuse of email. This is sometimes known as 'cyberstalking'. This can include the use of social networking sites, chat rooms and other forums facilitated by technology. The internet can be used for a range of purposes relating to harassment, for example: to locate personal information about a victim; to communicate with the victim; as a means of surveillance of the victim; identity theft such as subscribing the victim to services, purchasing goods and services in their name; damaging the reputation of the victim; electronic sabotage such as spamming and sending viruses; or tricking other internet users into harassing or threatening a victim. Further guidance can be found in Communications Offences, elsewhere in the Legal Guidance http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/stalking_and_harassment/#a05a
This sense of the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, but have been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[5][6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 16, 2014, 08:18:50 PM
Yes, if they are discussing the case. Destroys their credibility as their recollections may be modified. Same as if a group of witnesses got together to compare stories.
Then is Dr Amaral's book illegal?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 08:22:07 PM
Dr Amaral was never a witness in the case so he was free to write about it. I believe the individual being referred to, ... ......., has already been warned that her actions could be construed as an attempt to pervert the course of justice. I notice her twitter account has been suspended.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 16, 2014, 09:05:20 PM
The outcome of the libel trial should give us the definitive answer to whether it is, at least, unlawful ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 17, 2014, 06:47:54 PM
An interesting article from Manchester Evening News.
Quote
'A Twitter printout is a witness which will never lie . . . the internet has a long memory'
Internet trolls who think they can get away with spouting abuse online should think again, according to a top Manchester media lawyer.
Steve Kuncewicz, head of intellectual property and media at law firm Bermans, says people who post vile comments online can fall foul of a number of laws - and courts are duty bound to take offences seriously.
He said victims who feel their reputation has been tarnished could also sue in the civil courts for defamation.
Mr Kuncewicz said: “You cannot stop people from voicing their opinions, but there is a very fine line between voicing an opinion and abuse, which is something that courts will take very seriously.”
Trolls could fall foul of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, which prevents people from pursuing a course of conduct that amounts to harassment.
They could also be found to have breached the Communications Act 2003, which prevents the sending of a message that is ‘grossly offensive’, or of an ‘indecent, obscene or menacing character’.
It is also an offence under the Malicious Communications Act 1988 to send messages to another person which are ‘indecent or grossly offensive’, threatening or false.
Any indecent or grossly offensive message could be considered under this act as an offence if it causes distress or anxiety to the recipient, or ‘any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated’.
Anyone who is found guilty of malicious communication could face jail for up to six months or a fine.
Trolls could also fall foul of offences under terrorism legislation and of inciting racial harassment.
Just last month, a man was jailed for 18 weeks after he sent abusive Twitter messages to Labour MP Stella Creasy after she campaigned to put Jane Austen on the £10 note.
Mr Kuncewicz said: “When there have been a few high-profile cases, perhaps the public will start to take notice. That doesn’t seem to be happening at the moment.
“People need to realise that, in the eyes of a judge, there is very little difference between what you say online and what you say offline.
“The witness that will never lie is the printout of what an offender is saying to a victim on Twitter.
“They are creating their own chain of evidence for the prosecution. The internet has a long memory.” End quote
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 17, 2014, 07:33:29 PM
An interesting article from Manchester Evening News.
Quote
'A Twitter printout is a witness which will never lie . . . the internet has a long memory'
Internet trolls who think they can get away with spouting abuse online should think again, according to a top Manchester media lawyer.
Steve Kuncewicz, head of intellectual property and media at law firm Bermans, says people who post vile comments online can fall foul of a number of laws - and courts are duty bound to take offences seriously.
He said victims who feel their reputation has been tarnished could also sue in the civil courts for defamation.
Mr Kuncewicz said: “You cannot stop people from voicing their opinions, but there is a very fine line between voicing an opinion and abuse, which is something that courts will take very seriously.”
Trolls could fall foul of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, which prevents people from pursuing a course of conduct that amounts to harassment.
They could also be found to have breached the Communications Act 2003, which prevents the sending of a message that is ‘grossly offensive’, or of an ‘indecent, obscene or menacing character’.
It is also an offence under the Malicious Communications Act 1988 to send messages to another person which are ‘indecent or grossly offensive’, threatening or false.
Any indecent or grossly offensive message could be considered under this act as an offence if it causes distress or anxiety to the recipient, or ‘any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated’.
Anyone who is found guilty of malicious communication could face jail for up to six months or a fine.
Trolls could also fall foul of offences under terrorism legislation and of inciting racial harassment.
Just last month, a man was jailed for 18 weeks after he sent abusive Twitter messages to Labour MP Stella Creasy after she campaigned to put Jane Austen on the £10 note.
Mr Kuncewicz said: “When there have been a few high-profile cases, perhaps the public will start to take notice. That doesn’t seem to be happening at the moment.
“People need to realise that, in the eyes of a judge, there is very little difference between what you say online and what you say offline.
“The witness that will never lie is the printout of what an offender is saying to a victim on Twitter.
“They are creating their own chain of evidence for the prosecution. The internet has a long memory.” End quote
To be pedantic, a printout would not standup as evidence, you would really need an actual online tweet or some form of archive. I don't think the law has really caught up with technology yet.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 17, 2014, 07:36:20 PM
To be pedantic, a printout would not standup as evidence, you would really need an actual online tweet or some form of archive. I don't think the law has really caught up with technology yet.
Who is to say that such accounts haven't been hacked for malicious purposes?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 17, 2014, 07:40:57 PM
Who is to say that such accounts haven't been hacked for malicious purposes?
Most accounts of this type have a log in record which shows the time & location where someone logs in. If you have been hacked, the location recorded would differ from your own.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2014, 10:02:34 AM
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2014, 12:31:07 PM
... and not from one individual ... but from many ... with literally thousands of abusive messages without let up being posted each week.
Also with the knowledge ... your name is known ... your address is known ... your activities are posted online ... and your childrens' school and route to school are posted on line as well as their leisure activities discussed. Also with the knowledge some of these people live near you ... they know you ... you do not know them.
I would say that is a very heavy added burden to carry and I cannot understand the mentality of people who would indulge in such a campaign.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2014, 02:13:47 PM
I do. Would you read for seven years of vile posts about you?
Not just online posts, but also:
- campaigns with leaflets being distributed through letterboxes in their home village and in other places associated with them;
- photos of their house taken at night;
- posting photos of them and their children at a private outing;
- checking out and posting details regarding the children's routine;
- threats to cover Kate in paint at a book-signing;
- covering a wall in PdL asserting that they had killed Madeleine when the recent police search was there;
- threats to kidnap the twins;
- incitement to waterboard them;
- incitement to heckle anyone vaguely related to this case (including the grandparents);
- posting comments about their daily activities by those in the vicinity;
- launching numerous campaigns doomed to failure to add to their misery;
- posting the suggestion of dressing up as the dogs when they were running for charity;
- highly offensive photoshopped images;
- years of juxtaposed photos of what a grieving mother is "supposed" to look like, based on totally different situations in snapshots captured by the media;
- stalking and alluding to illicit activity on anyone remotely connected to the case, including people in PdL at the time who tried to help by supplying witness statements;
- the list goes on.
I've no doubt that I've missed quite a few. Perhaps that will do for starters?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2014, 03:58:45 PM
why do people let people upset them online?? mcann supporters say horrible things about me i dont care people can say what they like
Just imagine for a moment ... you go to the local supermarket with your children or a neice or nephew … some anonymous person posts derogatory comment on the internet reporting having seen you there.
You go to the gym … some anonymous person posts derogatory comment on the internet reporting having seen you there.
You go to your child’s parents’ evening or some other event … some anonymous person posts derogatory comment on the internet reporting having seen you there.
These anonymous people were observing you going about your private daily life ... you didn't know they were ... and they chose to post about the encounter with graphic detail about what they wished they could do to you.
Would you be happy about that … or would you feel your personal security was being compromised?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 18, 2014, 05:11:40 PM
Just imagine for a moment ... you go to the local supermarket with your children or a neice or nephew … some anonymous person posts derogatory comment on the internet reporting having seen you there.
You go to the gym … some anonymous person posts derogatory comment on the internet reporting having seen you there.
You go to your child’s parents’ evening or some other event … some anonymous person posts derogatory comment on the internet reporting having seen you there.
These anonymous people were observing you going about your private daily life ... you didn't know they were ... and they chose to post about the encounter with graphic detail about what they wished they could do to you.
Would you be happy about that … or would you feel your personal security was being compromised?
I'm sure Carly would be perfectly OK with all of that, well she'll pretend to be anyway, for the sake of her position in the argument.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 18, 2014, 05:15:11 PM
Just imagine for a moment.......
The mccanns had taken proper care of their children, had employed a babysitter and had left their children in locked accommodation.
Now there's a thought........ 8)-)))
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2014, 05:25:33 PM
The world is full of 'if only s'
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2014, 05:26:01 PM
The mccanns had taken proper care of their children, had employed a babysitter and had left their children in locked accommodation.
Now there's a thought........ 8)-)))
Now there is a thought indeed ... nothing at all to say about an intruder entering the premises ... not by the unlocked door, not even Dr Amaral claims that ... and abducting a small child.
Another thought ... isn't it about time you got over it? ... it has cost you nothing ... but it has cost Madeleine's parents unmeasurable anguish.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 18, 2014, 05:31:53 PM
Now there is a thought indeed ... nothing at all to say about an intruder entering the premises ... not by the unlocked door, not even Dr Amaral claims that ... and abducting a small child.
Another thought ... isn't it about time you got over it? ... it has cost you nothing ... but it has cost Madeleine's parents unmeasurable anguish.
Evidence or Proof of intruder?
Rhetoric doesn't count.
I only hope no more parents do what they did, in their stupidity.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 18, 2014, 06:05:05 PM
Don't think ad hominem attacks really add much to the forum old chap.
*&(+(+ that's me told. I do apologise to Carlymichelle for the shocking attack on her personage.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 18, 2014, 06:31:17 PM
I read a very sensible post on another forum and I don't think the commenter would object to me re-posting it here
""If the girl hadn't walked down that street, she wouldn't have been raped. If the man hadn't gone out on the town he would never have been murdered. If mothers spent every moment with their child there wouldn't be millions of child abuse photos on the internet. If they hadn't have gone out in the car no one would have had an accident".
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 18, 2014, 06:57:47 PM
I read a very sensible post on another forum and I don't think the commenter would object to me re-posting it here
""If the girl hadn't walked down that street, she wouldn't have been raped. If the man hadn't gone out on the town he would never have been murdered. If mothers spent every moment with their child there wouldn't be millions of child abuse photos on the internet. If they hadn't have gone out in the car no one would have had an accident".
If Madeleine hadn't been abducted, there wouldn't be a spawn of pseudo-"Solomons" insisting Kate and Gerry had harmed her and orchestrated an elaborate cover-up ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 18, 2014, 06:58:32 PM
*&(+(+ that's me told. I do apologise to Carlymichelle for the shocking attack on her personage.
Well never have been afraid of taking it and dishing it out, that apology is about as insincere as one could imagine. If Alf cut out ad hominem attacks and snide comments he would remain a "newbie". It is you see his whole ethos....she said stating the bleedin' obvious.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2014, 09:16:25 PM
Not just of interest to those who may have been trolling the McCann family ... but a welcome deterrent for those who take it upon themselves to stalk anyone at all. Definitely a long overdue victims' charter.
18 October 2014 at 9:05pm
Internet trolls to face up to two years in jail
Internet trolls will face up to two years in jail under tough new laws proposed by Justice Secretary Chris Grayling.
The previous maximum term of six months will be quadrupled under the plan to tackle the "cowards" who post abusive comments online.
Mr Grayling said the plan was a signal of his determination to "take a stand against a baying cyber-mob".
The move comes just days after the threats directed at Chloe Madeley after she stepped in to defend her mother Judy Finnigan's controversial comments about footballer and convicted rapist Ched Evans.
The Justice Secretary told the Mail on Sunday: "These internet trolls are cowards who are poisoning our national life." Last updated Sat 18 Oct 2014
Not just of interest to those who may have been trolling the McCann family ... but a welcome deterrent for those who take it upon themselves to stalk anyone at all. Definitely a long overdue victims' charter.
18 October 2014 at 9:05pm
Internet trolls to face up to two years in jail
Internet trolls will face up to two years in jail under tough new laws proposed by Justice Secretary Chris Grayling.
The previous maximum term of six months will be quadrupled under the plan to tackle the "cowards" who post abusive comments online.
Mr Grayling said the plan was a signal of his determination to "take a stand against a baying cyber-mob".
The move comes just days after the threats directed at Chloe Madeley after she stepped in to defend her mother Judy Finnigan's controversial comments about footballer and convicted rapist Ched Evans.
The Justice Secretary told the Mail on Sunday: "These internet trolls are cowards who are poisoning our national life." Last updated Sat 18 Oct 2014
and someone on the other side of the debate also got rape threats, apparently. http://news.sky.com/story/1355289/ched-evans-campaigner-reveals-vicious-abuse
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 19, 2014, 12:23:12 AM
Well, well, well it appears, according to the Times, that it WAS the McCanns who handed the 'troll' dossier over to the police.
Well the photo caption indicates that the private detective work (basic find an internet posters id then find where they live stuff) to trace the now deceased lady was commisioned by some unsavoury individual who then fed the results to a totally innocent person to pass to police. As for which person then fed the dossier stuff to the press, I have no idea, a wild guess would be someone who works in the PR industry? ;)
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on October 19, 2014, 01:21:17 AM
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 19, 2014, 07:45:29 AM
Well those who submitted the dossier, which of course was made available in early September, have now tried to disappear, and have certain media accounts closed.
However, I have read some of these peoples' names are known.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 19, 2014, 08:07:21 AM
Well those who submitted the dossier, which of course was made available in early September, have now tried to disappear, and have certain media accounts closed.
However, I have read some of these peoples' names are known.
How can you possibly know that if the names of those who compiled and submitted the dossier have not been officially revealed or confirmed. Wishful thinking and wild speculation doesn't count. But it is how myths are created.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 19, 2014, 08:49:03 AM
How can you possibly know that if the names of those who compiled and submitted the dossier have not been officially revealed or confirmed. Wishful thinking and wild speculation doesn't count. But it is how myths are created.
These people passed on the dossier to Sky News.
Brenda Leyland is dead.
Would she be dead now if they hadn't ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 19, 2014, 09:04:20 AM
P.S. Would Brenda Leyland now be dead, if the dossier hadn't been given to Sky News ?
A simple YES or NO, would of course suffice.
An interesting question, Stephen. An individual may be called to account for anything they publish - ranging from word of mouth to email to blogs and twitter.
In her guise as "sweepyface" Brenda Leyland apparently published around 4000 items, some of them unpleasant.
I think perhaps we need to consider the following questions first.
Is there an absolute righ to freedom of speech?
Do we want a free press?
Do individuals have a right to anonymity?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 19, 2014, 09:46:04 AM
An interesting question, Stephen. An individual may be called to account for anything they publish - ranging from word of mouth to email to blogs and twitter.
In her guise as "sweepyface" Brenda Leyland apparently published around 4000 items, some of them unpleasant.
I think perhaps we need to consider the following questions first.
Is there an absolute righ to freedom of speech?
Do we want a free press?
Do individuals have a right to anonymity?
The question comes, where do draw the line with the press ?
They have undoubtedly revealed many cases of both corruption and malfeasance, by individuals and groups, for many decades and have therefore helped bring criminals to justice.
They have also been responsible for destroying peoples' lives.................................
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 19, 2014, 09:49:18 AM
P.S. Would Brenda Leyland now be dead, if the dossier hadn't been given to Sky News ?
A simple YES or NO, would of course suffice.
This is what you said:
Quote Well those who submitted the dossier, which of course was made available in early September, have now tried to disappear, and have certain media accounts closed.
However, I have read some of these peoples' names are known. unquote
As you can see - your own post to which I responded had nothing to do with Mrs Leyland.
So instead of trying to change the subject - can you confirm that some of the names of the people who compiled and submitted the dossier have now been released/confirmed and are now in the public domain.
If you cannot do that - then it is reasonable to assume that your claims are merely wishful thinking based on wild speculation - but which IMO you are attempting to import onto this forum as 'facts'.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 19, 2014, 09:54:59 AM
Quote Well those who submitted the dossier, which of course was made available in early September, have now tried to disappear, and have certain media accounts closed.
However, I have read some of these peoples' names are known. unquote
As you can see - your own post to which I responded had nothing to do with Mrs Leyland.
So instead of trying to change the subject - can you confirm that some of the names of the people who compiled and submitted the dossier have now been released/confirmed and are now in the public domain.
If you cannot do that - then it is reasonable to assume that your claims are merely wishful thinking based on wild speculation - but which IMO you are attempting to import onto this forum as 'facts'.
'I have read some of these peoples' names are known.'
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 19, 2014, 09:59:34 AM
The question comes, where do draw the line with the press ?
They have undoubtedly revealed many cases of both corruption and malfeasance, by individuals and groups, for many decades and have therefore helped bring criminals to justice.
They have also been responsible for destroying peoples' lives.................................
Fair enough - but I would much rather live in a society with a free press.
The other two questions -
Is there an absolute right to freedom of speech? (to be able to say whatever you want.)
And do individuals have a right to anonymity? (To write or post under a pseudonym)
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2014, 10:35:56 AM
People who don't post Malicious or Libellous Comments, don't need the protection of Free Speech.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 19, 2014, 10:55:10 AM
Perhaps, but both are subjective concepts. The problem with the internet is that people often post comments without due consideration.
they are only subjective to a degree...posting that the mccanns covered up the accidental death of their daughter is libellous unless the poster can prove the truth of the statement..as Tony Bennett found out
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 19, 2014, 11:58:58 AM
they are only subjective to a degree...posting that the mccanns covered up the accidental death of their daughter is libellous unless the poster can prove the truth of the statement..as Tony Bennett found out
Indeed, but surely the decision of a jury to accept or reject such proof would itself be a subjective one.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 19, 2014, 12:20:56 PM
As usual the press and media are spinning the latest anti troll measures into something it isn't. Trolls are for the most part harmless but like most things there are the idiots who take it too far. Abusive troll is the correct term.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 19, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
I have no argument with the M....... handing the dossier to the police. It does however suggest a closeness between the couple and the individuals who compiled the dossier and harassed Brenda before her death, a closeness that the M...... have been at pains to deny. What they shouldn't have done however is either disclose it's contents, or let them be disclosed by a third party, to the media.
Disclosing the details of individuals included in the dossier to Sky would almost certainly have made any resulting prosecution impossible ( how would Brenda Leyland have got a fair trial after her exposure and subsequent vilification in the MSM ? ) but of course by that time I'm sure the M........ ( who don't forget would be the only ones receiving information from SY as it was them who handed over the dossier ) would have known there was going to be no prosecution so forced to do something like giving the go-ahead for one of their minions ( deniability always ) to give it to Sky.
[edited as per forum rules]
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 19, 2014, 12:35:32 PM
I have no argument with the M....... handing the dossier to the police. It does however suggest a closeness between the couple and the individuals who compiled the dossier and harassed Brenda before her death, a closeness that the M...... have been at pains to deny. What they shouldn't have done however is either disclose it's contents, or let them be disclosed by a third party, to the media.
Disclosing the details of individuals included in the dossier to Sky would almost certainly have made any resulting prosecution impossible ( how would Brenda Leyland have got a fair trial after her exposure and subsequent vilification in the MSM ? ) but of course by that time I'm sure the M........ ( who don't forget would be the only ones receiving information from SY as it was them who handed over the dossier ) would have known there was going to be no prosecution so forced to do something like giving the go-ahead for one of their minions ( deniability always ) to give it to Sky.
[edited as per forum rules]
how do you know that those who complied the dossier harassed Brenda...its a gross assumption
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 19, 2014, 01:39:57 PM
Fair enough - but I would much rather live in a society with a free press.
The other two questions -
Is there an absolute right to freedom of speech? (to be able to say whatever you want.)
And do individuals have a right to anonymity? (To write or post under a pseudonym)
I watched Sky News briefly this morning when someone suggested that for social media, that peoples' real names and addresses should be made freely available as well.
Now that would be a recipe for disaster.
Now imagine if some of the nutters on twitter took offense to someone's posts ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 19, 2014, 01:48:00 PM
As usual the press and media are spinning the latest anti troll measures into something it isn't. Trolls are for the most part harmless but like most things there are the idiots who take it too far. Abusive troll is the correct term.
A more precise defenition of 'Troll' is required, in fairness, from the wumming little trouble makers like myself, to those who threaten to rape Richard & Judy's daughter, etc.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 19, 2014, 01:57:41 PM
I have no argument with the M....... handing the dossier to the police. It does however suggest a closeness between the couple and the individuals who compiled the dossier and harassed Brenda before her death, a closeness that the M...... have been at pains to deny. What they shouldn't have done however is either disclose it's contents, or let them be disclosed by a third party, to the media.
Disclosing the details of individuals included in the dossier to Sky would almost certainly have made any resulting prosecution impossible ( how would Brenda Leyland have got a fair trial after her exposure and subsequent vilification in the MSM ? ) but of course by that time I'm sure the M........ ( who don't forget would be the only ones receiving information from SY as it was them who handed over the dossier ) would have known there was going to be no prosecution so forced to do something like giving the go-ahead for one of their minions ( deniability always ) to give it to Sky.
[edited as per forum rules]
A lot of speculation going on in your post imo Faith. How do we know how many copies of the dossier there were - or whether copies were sent to other people apart from the McCanns?
How do we know that the McCanns had any idea that a dossier was being compiled - until they received it?
I have no doubt that people (probably relatives or close friends) were monitoring the net - and I would expect that in view of the menacing content of some of the posts on there. Forewarned is fore-armed.
How do you know that the people who compiled lists of posts which broke the law ever harassed Mrs Leyland? For all we know their only interest may have been to collect the evidence and they never posted at all themselves.
What we do know (assuming media reports are correct) is that when the McCanns received a copy of the dossier - they quite correctly handed it over to the police - and that is all we know about their involvment at the moment. Anything else is pure speculation IMO.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 19, 2014, 01:59:44 PM
how do you know that those who complied the dossier harassed Brenda...its a gross assumption
There are so many gross assumptions in her post in fact that it is simply one big, rather gross assumption. I'm supposed to be ignoring her but when you quote her ridiculous posts I have no option but to read them unfortunately...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on October 19, 2014, 02:21:05 PM
I watched Sky News briefly this morning when someone suggested that for social media, that peoples' real names and addresses should be made freely available as well.
Now that would be a recipe for disaster.
Now imagine if some of the nutters on twitter took offense to someone's posts ?
Maybe if Twitter and Facebook took responsibility for their members and acted on the abuse notifications then this sort of abuse could never proliferate in the first place.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on October 19, 2014, 02:35:20 PM
If it hadn't been passed to the media you wouldn't know of its existence.
... and does it matter who passed it to the police?
... and does it matter who passed it to the media?
I think the fact that it exists at all is what should be under discussion here.
No doubt I will be challenged on this but it will be repeated no doubt throughout the day ... this morning I caught the end of an interview on Sky News with a woman who had to go to the High Court to get the police to take action under existing legislation on the abuse? or stalking? she had been suffering.
Perhaps the release of the dossier to the media was to ensure that the police would have to take action; it has been my opinion they have been tremendously lax in allowing the abuse of the McCanns to continue unhindered; but it seems they are not alone if at least one other victim has had to raise an action in the High Court to have her complaint addressed by the police.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 19, 2014, 02:42:34 PM
Maybe if Twitter and Facebook took responsibility for their members and acted on the abuse notifications then this sort of abuse could never proliferate in the first place.
I completely agree John. Maybe the promise of a few hefty fines might get their attention.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on October 19, 2014, 02:47:21 PM
I completely agree John. Maybe the promise of a few hefty fines might get their attention.
Social media sites have a responsibility to their users, there is no reason why they cannot delete the accounts of abusers but apparently commercial interest is more important to them.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2014, 02:47:49 PM
A more precise defenition of 'Troll' is required, in fairness, from the wumming little trouble makers like myself, to those who threaten to rape Richard & Judy's daughter, etc.
Do you think that being a self confessed, wumming, little trouble maker is acceptable?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on October 19, 2014, 02:49:55 PM
Members are reminded that posting personal messages attracts an instant ban. If you are sent an abusive message by another member let me know or copy it to an admin or global moderator.
We all can do things in haste and sending personal messages with questionable content is one of them. Once you press the send button it is too late to take it back so please think twice before doing so. TY
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 19, 2014, 02:55:46 PM
Social media sites have a responsibility to their users, there is no reason why they cannot delete the accounts of abusers but apparently commercial interest is more important to them.
Agreed. I'm surprised that this aspect of the problem has not even been mentioned in the media so far (unless I've missed it). Twitter and Facebook should be held more accountable for allowing ongoing abuse - despite it being reported. I suspect to remedy that would entail the employment of more staff - and so they will resist taking on that extra expense for as long as they can get away with it. Profits first and people last - and all that........
If they knew they could end up paying out thousands of pounds in fines - they might change their attitude.
At the moment it would appear that they are happy for the police (and therefore us) to be bearing the cost of their lack of action.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 19, 2014, 03:44:05 PM
A more precise defenition of 'Troll' is required, in fairness, from the wumming little trouble makers like myself, to those who threaten to rape Richard & Judy's daughter, etc.
Troll is being wrongly defined as criminal when that is completely false. Trolls can most certainly be mischievous, devious, playful and bloody downright annoying but they are here to stay. Abusers are something else and can be found everywhere.
Is Kate McCann an abuser by publishing the comment "f..k1ng tosser... f..k1ng tosser" towards a Portuguese policeman?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 19, 2014, 03:46:59 PM
how do you know that those who complied the dossier harassed Brenda...its a gross assumption
I have posted the tweets which revealed Mrs Leyland's place of residence. Only the compilers of the dossier, or those close to them would know, or care, where she lived.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 19, 2014, 03:47:42 PM
Troll is being wrongly defined as criminal when that is completely false. Trolls can most certainly be mischievous, devious, playful and bloody downright annoying but they are here to stay. Abusers are something else and can be found everywhere.
Was Kate McCann an abuser by publishing the comment "f.....g tosser... f.....g tosser" towards a Portuguese policeman?
I could tell, quite well, just who you were alluding to there.
8()-000(
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 19, 2014, 03:53:06 PM
Troll is being wrongly defined as criminal when that is completely false. Trolls can most certainly be mischievous, devious, playful and bloody downright annoying but they are here to stay. Abusers are something else and can be found everywhere.
Is Kate McCann an abuser by publishing the comment "f..k1ng tosser... f..k1ng tosser" towards a Portuguese policeman?
No she is not. She wrote a book in which she admitted that these were the words she was muttering under her breath when being questioned by him. It was a factual record of how she felt towards him at the time, and doesn't necessarily reflect well on her, understandable though her frustration may well have been. That is not the same as, for instance, tweeting "Paiva is a f..king tosser" 50 times a day for seven years. I'm sure you can see the difference.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2014, 04:04:55 PM
No she is not. She wrote a book in which she admitted that these were the words she was muttering under her breath when being questioned by him. It was a factual record of how she felt towards him at the time, and doesn't necessarily reflect well on her, understandable though her frustration may well have been. That is not the same as, for instance, tweeting "Paiva is a f..king tosser" 50 times a day for seven years. I'm sure you can see the difference.
Such a pity about Paiva's little foray into The Internet World of self promotion. I mean, really. Karma, was it?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 19, 2014, 04:28:08 PM
No she is not. She wrote a book in which she admitted that these were the words she was muttering under her breath when being questioned by him. It was a factual record of how she felt towards him at the time, and doesn't necessarily reflect well on her, understandable though her frustration may well have been. That is not the same as, for instance, tweeting "Paiva is a f..king tosser" 50 times a day for seven years. I'm sure you can see the difference.
Oooer 127,850 tweets now there's a target. Who did that I wonder? Even our top posters are well off the pace. Come on chaps up your game a bit,
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 19, 2014, 04:55:13 PM
An average of 55 tweets per day for the last 70-ish months. The vast majority on the #McCann tag. Read it and weep. https://twitter.com/JillyCL
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 19, 2014, 04:58:41 PM
This troll knocks the last one into a cocked hat, averaging close to 100 tweets a day 24/7 re: the McCanns and has done so for the last 40-odd months. Odd being the operative word. https://twitter.com/RothleyPillow
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 19, 2014, 05:06:36 PM
Verily I am desolated that Alfred still has me on ignore and replies to my posts by proxy. I must have hurt his feelings. None the less all those trolls at 50 plus "messages" per day make our trolls look pretty small beer at 12 or less. Be thankful for small mercies, merciful heavens 8(>((
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 19, 2014, 06:06:26 PM
This troll knocks the last one into a cocked hat, averaging close to 100 tweets a day 24/7 re: the McCanns and has done so for the last 40-odd months. Odd being the operative word. https://twitter.com/RothleyPillow
You`d think examples would have been made by using existing laws to prosecute individuals at some time over the last 7 years...........especially when threats to kidnap and waterboard have been mentioned.
You`d have thought someone would have done time.........6 months as a deterrent to the rest if laws were being broken?
"Under the current law, people who subject their victims to sexually offensive, verbally abusive or threatening material on the internet can only be prosecuted in magistrates' courts under the Malicious Communications Act, which carries a maximum prison sentence of six months. "
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on October 19, 2014, 06:16:28 PM
You`d think examples would have been made by using existing laws to prosecute individuals at some time over the last 7 years...........especially when threats to kidnap and waterboard have been mentioned.
You`d have thought someone would have done time.........6 months as a deterrent to the rest if laws were being broken?
"Under the current law, people who subject their victims to sexually offensive, verbally abusive or threatening material on the internet can only be prosecuted in magistrates' courts under the Malicious Communications Act, which carries a maximum prison sentence of six months. "
I don’t think it is as easy as all that … it can be difficult to get the police to take action.
Nicola Brookes became a victim after posting a message of support for an X Factor contestant … can you believe that?
The Daily Mail link gives details … and in the Sky link she articulates the effects these people have on the lives of their victims.
You`d think examples would have been made by using existing laws to prosecute individuals at some time over the last 7 years...........especially when threats to kidnap and waterboard have been mentioned.
You`d have thought someone would have done time.........6 months as a deterrent to the rest if laws were being broken?
"Under the current law, people who subject their victims to sexually offensive, verbally abusive or threatening material on the internet can only be prosecuted in magistrates' courts under the Malicious Communications Act, which carries a maximum prison sentence of six months. "
You'd have thought so wouldn't you? Do you think the troll example I've highlighted should have been?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 19, 2014, 06:29:19 PM
Police have taken action and prosecutions have been brought recently in respect of abusive twitter threats.
You`d have thought that kidnap and waterboarding threateners would have been similarly prosecuted........
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 19, 2014, 08:35:35 PM
No she is not. She wrote a book in which she admitted that these were the words she was muttering under her breath when being questioned by him. It was a factual record of how she felt towards him at the time, and doesn't necessarily reflect well on her, understandable though her frustration may well have been. That is not the same as, for instance, tweeting "Paiva is a f..king tosser" 50 times a day for seven years. I'm sure you can see the difference.
I don't see the difference at all. If McCann said it to herself as she claimed there was no need whatsoever to publish it. It goes without saying that Kate McCann was attempting to make a point at any price and that price includes the comments she gets back. As someone posted recently, if you publish abuse expect to get it back.
The problem with the McCanns is that they think they are untouchable. You wouldn't get Kerry Needham behaving in such an unrefined manner.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 19, 2014, 09:22:56 PM
I don't see the difference at all. If McCann said it to herself as she claimed there was no need whatsoever to publish it. It goes without saying that Kate McCann was attempting to make a point at any price and that price includes the comments she gets back. As someone posted recently, if you publish abuse expect to get it back.
The problem with the McCanns is that they think they are untouchable. You wouldn't get Kerry Needham behaving in such an unrefined manner.
you can really see no difference between Kate's comment in a book, written to describe her real, actual frustration at a police officer (who was basically accusing her of hiding her own child's body) and an internet troll who tweets 100 posts a day accusing the McCanns of being paedos, child killers and god knows what else? Jesus, that's depressing.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 19, 2014, 09:28:38 PM
you can really see no difference between Kate's comment in a book, written to describe her real, actual frustration at a police officer (who was basically accusing her of hiding her own child's body) and an internet troll who tweets 100 posts a day accusing the McCanns of being paedos, child killers and god knows what else? Jesus, that's depressing.
the doubters show just how unfair their judgement is when they compare Kate saying f****** T******r once to 50 to 100 tweets a day
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 19, 2014, 10:14:12 PM
you can really see no difference between Kate's comment in a book, written to describe her real, actual frustration at a police officer (who was basically accusing her of hiding her own child's body) and an internet troll who tweets 100 posts a day accusing the McCanns of being paedos, child killers and god knows what else? Jesus, that's depressing.
So which Internet troll was that?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Angelo222 on October 19, 2014, 10:19:39 PM
I don't see the difference at all. If McCann said it to herself as she claimed there was no need whatsoever to publish it. It goes without saying that Kate McCann was attempting to make a point at any price and that price includes the comments she gets back. As someone posted recently, if you publish abuse expect to get it back.
The problem with the McCanns is that they think they are untouchable. You wouldn't get Kerry Needham behaving in such an unrefined manner.
You can move the goalposts as much as you like but abuse is abuse. Kate McCann publicly posting those despicable comments to a police officer who was only doing his job is most revealing imo.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 19, 2014, 10:29:18 PM
This troll knocks the last one into a cocked hat, averaging close to 100 tweets a day 24/7 re: the McCanns and has done so for the last 40-odd months. Odd being the operative word. https://twitter.com/RothleyPillow
Do you think this one should have been selected by Sky News for confrontation instead of Ms Leyland?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 19, 2014, 11:59:30 PM
You'd have thought so wouldn't you? Do you think the troll example I've highlighted should have been?
You`d need to ask the relevant authorities why other twitter "offenders" have been prosecuted under the present laws ; but not the alleged offenders highlighted by you. It must seem so frustrating!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 08:11:01 AM
You`d need to ask the relevant authorities why other twitter "offenders" have been prosecuted under the present laws ; but not the alleged offenders highlighted by you. It must seem so frustrating!
thanks for the advice and thoughtful words but I was asking you what YOU thought. If you don't want to just ignore my post or say I'd rather not answer your question rather than deflecting.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 08:12:49 AM
Do you think this one should have been selected by Sky News for confrontation instead of Ms Leyland?
That would have been a good idea, although this particular troll is clearly so deranged maybe Sky thought it unwise to target someone with such obvious mental problems?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 08:18:16 AM
BTW, which is worse ie likely to cause the most upset: being called a f..king tosser or being accused of causing your child's death and hiding her body? Angelo seems to think they are equally offensive but I know I would much rather be called the first than accused of the second. How about you guys?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 20, 2014, 09:19:35 AM
thanks for the advice and thoughtful words but I was asking you what YOU thought. If you don't want to just ignore my post or say I'd rather not answer your question rather than deflecting.
I think that those who break the law should be investigated...........but it isn`t for you, me or Sky News to decide who has or hasn`t...... or who is or isn`t a troll and target them, when the police haven`t.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 09:22:52 AM
I think that those who break the law should be investigated...........but it isn`t for you, me or Sky News to decide who has or hasn`t...... or who is or isn`t a troll and target them, when the police haven`t.
Excellent points Carew. 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 20, 2014, 09:25:14 AM
That would have been a good idea, although this particular troll is clearly so deranged maybe Sky thought it unwise to target someone with such obvious mental problems?
There could be a role for you, then........ putting your money where your mouth is, instead of bleating on here about it............(Citizen`s Arrest? )
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Montclair on October 20, 2014, 09:30:32 AM
BTW, which is worse ie likely to cause the most upset: being called a f.....g tosser or being accused of causing your child's death and hiding her body? Angelo seems to think they are equally offensive but I know I would much rather be called the first than accused of the second. How about you guys?
The PJ and British police were the first to accuse the McCanns of hiding their daughter's body and simulating an abduction after she died in an unfortunate accident in 5A. Therefore, it's not as if someone came up with an absurd story to harrass the couple. This opinion is based on evidence and facts in the police files.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 09:33:34 AM
The PJ and British police were the first to accuse the McCanns of hiding their daughter's body and simulating an abduction after she died in an unfortunate accident in 5A. Therefore, it's not as if someone came up with an absurd story to harrass the couple. This opinion is based on evidence and facts in the police files.
Precisely.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 20, 2014, 09:34:58 AM
I think that those who break the law should be investigated...........but it isn`t for you, me or Sky News to decide who has or hasn`t...... or who is or isn`t a troll and target them, when the police haven`t.
Isn't that exactly what is happening now? The police are in possession of evidence of possible law-breaking. All the evidence collated and submitted has already been in the public domain. They will investigate and decide whether there is evidence to warrant prosecutions or not - as the case may be.
People who have not broken the law have nothing to fear. Those that have - should be made to face the consequences of their illlegal actions - which they themselves chose to take.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 20, 2014, 09:43:04 AM
The PJ and British police were the first to accuse the McCanns of hiding their daughter's body and simulating an abduction after she died in an unfortunate accident in 5A. Therefore, it's not as if someone came up with an absurd story to harrass the couple. This opinion is based on evidence and facts in the police files.
That opinion was discounted when further enquiries proved there was no evidence against the McCanns or their friends to support it.
You are quoting the 'half time' score. It's the 'full time' score which counts.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 09:46:03 AM
That opinion was discounted when further enquiries proved there was no evidence against the McCanns or their friends to support it.
You are quoting the 'half time' score. It's the 'full time' score which counts.
The case was shelved while waiting for better evidence does not mean that the McCanns were cleared. The idea is that people believing that the parents were involved in Madeleine's disappearance is no loony conspiracy but an opinion with a basis.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 09:53:14 AM
There could be a role for you, then........ putting your money where your mouth is, instead of bleating on here about it............(Citizen`s Arrest? )
Gosh Carew you will wind up on his ignore list. Anyone who does not agree with his exalted opinions is a wum and on ignore @)(++(*
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
The case was shelved while waiting for better evidence does not mean that the McCanns were cleared. The idea is that people believing that the parents were involved in Madeleine's disappearance is no loony conspiracy but an opinion with a basis.
The McCanns have not been charged with anything in the first place to be cleared of. That's because there is no evidence against them or their friends.
That position has been confirmed by both the PJ and SY ruling them out of the enquiry as suspects or persons of interest.
Unless you are a conspiracy theorist of course - and have decided that the statement made by SY that they are not suspects - actually means 'they are prime suspects'.
Wishful thinking on a grand scale IMO.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on October 20, 2014, 10:33:29 AM
The case was shelved while waiting for better evidence does not mean that the McCanns were cleared. The idea is that people believing that the parents were involved in Madeleine's disappearance is no loony conspiracy but an opinion with a basis.
who says the case was shelved waiting for better evidence...you are making that up...as the case was shelved and no investigation was in place do you expect the evidence to drop out of the sky...if you read the archiving report it says that the evidence on which the mccanns were suspected was basically wrongly interpreted
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 20, 2014, 10:37:56 AM
Isn't that exactly what is happening now? The police are in possession of evidence of possible law-breaking. All the evidence collated and submitted has already been in the public domain. They will investigate and decide whether there is evidence to warrant prosecutions or not - as the case may be.
People who have not broken the law have nothing to fear. Those that have - should be made to face the consequences of their illlegal actions - which they themselves chose to take.
There have already been prosecutions for twitter offences under existing laws............If the "collated evidence" submitted in the dossier was actually already in the public domain for all to see anyway,..... surely the police have the expertise to decide who to track and investigate for themselves?
..........and how do you justify selecting a target yourselves and confronting her via the media instead of leaving it to the authorities........as you recommend yourself in the emboldened sentence?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on October 20, 2014, 11:10:46 AM
There have already been prosecutions for twitter offences under existing laws............If your "collated, submitted evidence" was already in the public domain for all to see anyway, surely the police have the expertise to decide who to track and investigate for themselves?
..........and how do you justify selecting a target yourselves and confronting her via the media instead of leaving it to the authorities........as you recommend yourself in the emboldened sentence?
I am assuming that the police do not have the resources to spend time monitoring Twitter and FB. And they shouldn't have to IMO - that 's the responsibilty of the site owners. If they had closed BL's accounts as a result of complaints - then what happened may well have NOT happened.
When I first joined AOL Message Boards they were properly monitored. The rule was 'attack the post and not the poster'. Three breaches of that rule - and you lost your AOL account.
When they decided to stop paying the moderators and removed them - 'trolls' started creeping in. The problem got worse and worse. People left in droves. Rather than spend money on sorting it out AOL simply closed down all their message boards.
That's not the way to go IMO. Effective 'moderating' is the answer IMO. And if that existed there would be no need for concerned members of the public to bring attention to the lawbreaking which is largely being ignored at the moment on Twitter and FB.
All IMHO
(must go out now)
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2014, 11:24:00 AM
I am assuming that the police do not have the resources to spend time monitoring Twitter and FB. And they shouldn't have to IMO - that 's the responsibilty of the site owners. If they had closed BL's accounts as a result of complaints - then what happened may well have NOT happened.
When I first joined AOL Message Boards they were properly monitored. The rule was 'attack the post and not the poster'. Three breaches of that rule - and you lost your AOL account.
When they decided to stop paying the moderators and removed them - 'trolls' started creeping in. The problem got worse and worse. People left in droves. Rather than spend money on sorting it out AOL simply closed down all their message boards.
That's not the way to go IMO. Effective 'moderating' is the answer IMO. And if that existed there would be no need for concerned members of the public to bring attention to the lawbreaking which is largely being ignored at the moment on Twitter and FB.
All IMHO
(must go out now)
My Understanding is the 'dossier' was sent to SY > they sent it onto the local police-where the McCanns live... Now why would someone send it to SY? Hmmmm They just happen to be investigating the 'murder'(?)
In my opinion-Kate McCann spewed venom at anyone who did not agree with her- she has such a huge ego- and full of self importance she is not ...[ moderated ]
She forgave her 'abductors' but hates (with a psychotic vengence) Mr Amaral- who was a police officer-investigating what happened to her daughter. Yes HER DAUGHTER you read that correct! missing person.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 20, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
I am assuming that the police do not have the resources to spend time monitoring Twitter and FB. And they shouldn't have to IMO - that 's the responsibilty of the site owners. If they had closed BL's accounts as a result of complaints - then what happened may well have NOT happened.
When I first joined AOL Message Boards they were properly monitored. The rule was 'attack the post and not the poster'. Three breaches of that rule - and you lost your AOL account.
When they decided to stop paying the moderators and removed them - 'trolls' started creeping in. The problem got worse and worse. People left in droves. Rather than spend money on sorting it out AOL simply closed down all their message boards.
That's not the way to go IMO. Effective 'moderating' is the answer IMO. And if that existed there would be no need for concerned members of the public to bring attention to the lawbreaking which is largely being ignored at the moment on Twitter and FB.
All IMHO
(must go out now)
How come there have been prosecutions for twitter law-breakers already?..........Some seem to warrant police resources and attention.
There have also been libel cases..............Where do Carter Ruck fit in with regard to the McCanns` and their supporters concerns about what`s posted on twitter and your collective desire to make an example of someone as a deterrent?
Why select Ms Leyland to in fact "carry the can" for what you feel are faults within the system/site owners or in frustration with lack of action from the police?
How "moral" is that from those who feel they occupy the high moral ground?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 02:20:25 PM
There could be a role for you, then........ putting your money where your mouth is, instead of bleating on here about it............(Citizen`s Arrest? )
I thought you didn't approve of members of the public reporting to the police when they suspect a crime has been committed?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 02:23:08 PM
The PJ and British police were the first to accuse the McCanns of hiding their daughter's body and simulating an abduction after she died in an unfortunate accident in 5A. Therefore, it's not as if someone came up with an absurd story to harrass the couple. This opinion is based on evidence and facts in the police files.
You don't seem to have grasped what we were discussing. Angelo is of the opinion that being described as a f..king tosser is equally as vile as being accused of causing your own child's death and hiding the body. Do you agree that they are slurs of equal vileness?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on October 20, 2014, 02:29:23 PM
You don't seem to have grasped what we were discussing. Angelo is of the opinion that being described as a f.....g tosser is equally as vile as being accused of causing your own child's death and hiding the body. Do you agree that they are slurs of equal vileness?
Don't know what Montclair's answer would be.
But I don't think anything can trump being accused of causing the death of your own child, covering up the fact of that death and launching a fraudulent fund in your missing child's name (explicitly made in Amaral's book) ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 02:32:29 PM
But I don't think anything can trump being accused of causing the death of your own child, covering up the fact of that death and launching a fraudulent fund in your missing child's name (explicitly made in Amaral's book) ...
Quite. Call me a f.....g tosser any day. After all that's a subjective opinion, one to which you are perfectly entitled. Accuse me of covering up the death of my own child and profiting from my actions is quite another matter entirely. Knowing it was untrue it would utterly devastate me.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 20, 2014, 02:49:41 PM
But I don't think anything can trump being accused of causing the death of your own child, covering up the fact of that death and launching a fraudulent fund in your missing child's name (explicitly made in Amaral's book) ...
Except, of course, being described as a f****** t*****, especially when you subsequent prove that you are in fact, a f****** t*****.
I noticed that some posters excused his behaviour as a "sting" operation (and therefore not his fault).
But as anyone who has enountered a wasp will know, if you dont want to get stung don't expose any, ahem, flesh. 8)--))
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2014, 03:57:17 PM
They may have been pulled off the case to investigate the Trolls who are annoying the McCanns...oh no, it's ok they sent them to the local bobbies- seems they are not interested in McCanns 'feelings' regarding the trolls. Well, quite right too!! They have a missing person inquiry to deal with.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 04:57:00 PM
I didn`t realise it was my approval you were seeking.
Certainly not, I was just pointing out the disconnect between your instructions to me and your apparent view on what is morally and legally correct vis-a-vis the public reporting suspected crimes to the police.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carew on October 20, 2014, 05:34:36 PM
Certainly not, I was just pointing out the disconnect between your instructions to me and your apparent view on what is morally and legally correct vis-a-vis the public reporting suspected crimes to the police.
You need to act on your own beliefs regardless of what you imply are mine..........
Confronting a carefully selected easy target in order to make an example of them "Sky News Style" sits rather more easily with your troll-hunting mind set than mine.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 05:56:39 PM
You need to act on your own beliefs regardless of what you imply are mine..........
Confronting a carefully selected easy target in order to make an example of them "Sky News Style" sits rather more easily with your troll-hunting mind set than mine.
Fair enough. I'd be delighted if Sky News chose that mad pillowcase woman as their next target tbh, but it strikes me she'd probably thrive on the publicity. No shame that one, you see.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 06:49:41 PM
I understand that there's a comical little bunch of "sceptics" who believe that the dossier compilers have broken a law and will end up going to jail. Could one of these "sceptics" kindly let us know which law they think the dossier compilers have actually broken, and why they think that?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2014, 07:07:28 PM
I understand that there's a comical little bunch of "sceptics" who believe that the dossier compilers have broken a law and will end up going to jail. Could one of these "sceptics" kindly let us know which law they think the dossier compilers have actually broken, and why they think that?
Perverting the course of justice? If you report something to the police then involve the media in vigilanteeism, then it is a possibility.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 07:19:41 PM
Did that include her telephone number and address ?
If so, were the details already 'on-line' ?
Almost everyone's address is online and can be obtained either free or by payment. Can a computer geek access a twitter a/c from the data Joana posted? More importantly, how did she obtain the record of someone deceased?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 08:16:54 PM
Almost everyone's address is online and can be obtained either free or by payment. Can a computer geek access a twitter a/c from the data Joana posted? More importantly, how did she obtain the record of someone deceased?
I have no idea.
Then I'm not interested in finding peoples personal details.
As far as I am concerned, that is part of trolling behaviour.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 20, 2014, 08:18:44 PM
As far as I'm concerned it does. If I had to report an internet poster to the police, they could sort out identity.
So anonymity does not apply under all circunstances.
OK - lets look at a slightly more difficult one. Suppose someone libelled you online. Accused you of some criminal act. Would you be entitled to obtain their details?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 09:09:53 PM
So anonymity does not apply under all circunstances.
OK - lets look at a slightly more difficult one. Suppose someone libelled you online. Accused you of some criminal act. Would you be entitled to obtain their details?
That is up to the Police.
Unless you believe in vigil[ censored word]m. Do you aspire to that ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on October 20, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
So anonymity does not apply under all circunstances.
OK - lets look at a slightly more difficult one. Suppose someone libelled you online. Accused you of some criminal act. Would you be entitled to obtain their details?
Why should I want to ? I couldn't afford to fight a libel case - I don't have a fund of public donations.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 20, 2014, 09:12:59 PM
So anonymity does not apply under all circunstances.
OK - lets look at a slightly more difficult one. Suppose someone libelled you online. Accused you of some criminal act. Would you be entitled to obtain their details?
It's an interesting question...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 20, 2014, 10:01:13 PM
I have seen cases which initially were called 'civil cases' by the police ,but after referral to a Police Commissioner the decisions were 'reversed'.
Very few, and in this context usually where it spills over into harrasment.
As usual, you are trying to deflect the argument.
Confining this to cases of defamation - a civil law matter - do you think you should be entitled to find out the identity of the person defaming you online?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 10:05:48 PM
Very few, and in this context usually where it spills over into harrasment.
As usual, you are trying to deflect the argument.
Confining this to cases of defamation - a civil law matter - do you think you should be entitled to find out the identity of the person defaming you online?
Yet again, when you get a difficult question, out comes the term 'deflect the argument', or the equivalent.
Classic McCann supporter mantra.
Same old tactics and still boring..
Why do you wish to confine this to 'defamation' ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 20, 2014, 10:12:43 PM
So anonymity does not apply under all circumstances.
OK - lets look at a slightly more difficult one. Suppose someone libelled you online. Accused you of some criminal act. Would you be entitled to obtain their details?
Yes you would be entitled but it requires a Court Order.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 01, 2014, 11:30:19 PM
A recent tweet from one of the faithful.
'Joseph O'Driscoll
Evening all:Mind how you go. Considering suicide? Pop into your local station: at least we can help you avoid the more painful means #McCann'
And they call sceptics ha*ers !!!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on November 03, 2014, 10:11:22 PM
4500 tweets concerning one family?
In her guise as "sweepyface" there would be appear to be a basis for action by the CPS
(2) Communications targeting specific individuals
19. If communications sent via social media target a specific individual or individuals, they will fall to be considered under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 where they amount to a course of conduct within the meaning of section 7 of that Act. In such cases, prosecutors should follow the CPS Legal Guidance on Stalking and Harassment.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 03, 2014, 10:23:34 PM
Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Threats to murder and torture Kate and Gerry McCann, posted by users convinced they are responsible for disappearance of daughter Madeleine, could lead to prosecutions
Internet trolls who aim abuse, including death threats, at the family of missing girl Madeleine McCann could be prosecuted as part of a new police investigation. The Metropolitan Police has been passed an 80-page dossier of hundreds of tweets, Facebook posts and messages on online forums accusing Kate and Gerry McCann of being involved in their daughter’s disappearance in Portugal in 2007, and telling them they should “burn in hell”. Trolls active in recent years could now be brought to justice, with officers in talks with the Crown Prosecution Service over what action can be taken over the dossier, which was also passed to Sky News. The evidence was compiled by members of the public, appalled at the campaign of abuse aimed at the McCann’s by the largely anonymous trolls, who are convinced of the McCanns’ guilt despite no supporting evidence. Posts charted in the dossier include suggestions that the McCanns should be tortured and killed, reports of recent sightings of the couple, and manipulated images of the couple, showing them behind bars or surrounded by piles of cash. Other messages are directed at Madeleine’s younger siblings, nine-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. One Twitter troll, whose username is ‘Sweepyface’ and has posted dozens of anti-McCann messages using the #mccann hashtag said that she was “entitled” to attack the couple when confronted by Sky News.
Authors of the dossier are calling on prosecutors to take action against the posters under the Malicious Communications Act 2003, which bans online messages containing threats of violence or that could cause stress or alarm to their targets. Among the messages identified in the dossier is an exchange on a message board which reads: “These 2 should burn in hell”; “I will supply the petrol”; “I’ll supply the lighter – happily”. In one of her tweets, “Sweepyface” called for the McCanns to suffer “for the rest of their miserable lives”. Other trolls claimed to live near the McCanns in Leicestershire, and detail supposed sightings of the family, in the gym or out shopping.
Six Twitter accounts have been set up to abuse the McCanns, the dossier says, with eight “persistent and prolific” anti-McCann activists identified. Dozens of others are said to have participated in the abuse. Other tactics include attempts complain about the McCanns through Freedom of Information requests, the bombardment of the BBC Crimewatch show message board and Facebook pages. Anthony Summers, the author of a recent book that argues the McCanns are innocent, has also been targeted. The campaigner spearheading the appeal, who has asked to remain anonymous, told Sky News that they feared that trolls would one day translate their threats into actions. They said: “We know that this is still continuing, that it's escalating at an alarming rate, and becoming bolder and a lot of what they're posting is becoming much more sinister.”
Jim Gamble, a former police officer and online security expert, said: “I think the time has come for the hard-core few in the midst of this group to be investigated.”
The Met confirmed the investigation in a letter sent to the authors of the dossier.
Just a little reminder of what the dossier is reported to contain, according to the Daily Telegraph.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on November 03, 2014, 10:31:22 PM
There is a fine line on the continuum between straight abuse and threats: prolific production of abuse (in the generic) can be indicative of a tendency towards something worse and can (in its own right) contribute to a state of mind in those targeted that may result in self-harm, or even suicide, just as Kate actually was (perhaps still is!) suicidal.
If it turns out that Brenda, indeed, took her own life, there would be a case in point. No threats, but the humiliation of being exposed for what she did to Kate, drove her to take her own life.
Similarly, her abuse of Kate McCann might, instead, have contributed to driving Kate to the same, tragic, end.
That's why on-line abuse has to be stopped; and why it is right to take a stand against it.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 03, 2014, 10:35:41 PM
Yet two months on from the handing over of the dossier with its frightening death threats not one arrest has been made. Says it all really.
[ edited ]
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on November 03, 2014, 10:39:59 PM
It seems that Met have already spent 2 million investigating it and so far come up with nothing
Sorry davel you've lost me !
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Gray on November 03, 2014, 11:44:06 PM
it's Ok to feel sorry for people like Brenda until you yourself have been the victim of online abuse. I was featured in a Tv programme about 5 years ago and a clip has been uploaded to you tube...it has 190, 000 views and some of the comments are vile...if any of these people who made vile comments decided to commit suicide I would actually be quite glad
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 07, 2014, 05:44:57 PM
Several prominent "sceptics", including alleged journalist Sonia Poulton follow the twitter account of the person who made these threats - why, if "sceptics" are against threats of violence, do they allow this scary sort of shit on their timeline?
Quote
@liesdontwash @teddyshepherd. Maybe Your Dirty Fat Arse s..m. I know Where My Loyalties Lie With a Missing Child. Terrorists Kill #Mccanns. ‐Wed Aug 13 20:48:28 +0000 2014
@larrypkay. Any Terrorists out there i Support the Death of the. #mnccanns. #Goforit ‐Wed Aug 13 20:45:25 +0000 2014
@fakerc @blamedandshamed @mariaccnr. Bollocks id Vote For assassination of Both Parents from Terrorists F@ You. ‐Wed Aug 13 20:28:28 +0000 2014
Is there Any. Terrorists want to murder the. #Mccann parents id support it its gone on too long. #Goforit ‐Wed Aug 13 20:21:21 +0000 2014
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Mr Moderator on November 08, 2014, 01:09:19 AM
Several prominent "sceptics", including alleged journalist Sonia Poulton follow the twitter account of the person who made these threats - why, if "sceptics" are against threats of violence, do they allow this scary sort of shit on their timeline?
Very good question Alfred, that sort of language is abhorrent and should never be condoned.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on November 08, 2014, 01:31:12 AM
We can only hope that the case is resolved before those so-inclined move to Diaspora.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 08, 2014, 10:35:20 AM
Very good question Alfred, that sort of language is abhorrent and should never be condoned.
Then can I suggest however posted the tweets inform the authorities of their content instead of posting them on a public forum. It is possible to doubt the McCanns yet not wish them to be the victims of retributional violence.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Benice on November 08, 2014, 10:58:00 AM
Then can I suggest however posted the tweets inform the authorities of their content instead of posting them on a public forum. It is possible to doubt the McCanns yet not wish them to be the victims of retributional violence.
They are already in the public domain.
This thread is about internet trolls, therefore IMO it is appropriate to include evidence of why a police investigation is justified.
Also to query why any decent person would want to engage with people who hope for and incite violence against anyone.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on November 08, 2014, 12:38:22 PM
Then can I suggest however posted the tweets inform the authorities of their content instead of posting them on a public forum. It is possible to doubt the McCanns yet not wish them to be the victims of retributional violence.
Very true, however only a few seem to think so others preferring to extend it even unto the realms of the ludicrous!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on November 08, 2014, 02:19:44 PM
But why repeat them why not just report them? If it were libel repeating it would be libellous.
Why have this Thread in the first place if one can't discuss what was said and done?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 08, 2014, 02:21:47 PM
I think it's important to show the level of depravity demonstrated against the McCanns on social media, a hatred which time and again is denied to exist by some of the supposedly more rational "sceptics". I also think it's worth asking why some of these supposedly rational "sceptics" actively choose to have such despicable posts on their timeline by choosing to follow the individual who made those threats. Even more worrying to note is that "sceptic" champion and voice Sonia Poulton appears to be supportive of the individual who made those tweets (not of those tweets specifically but of his campaign for "justice" - his own as well as Maddie's it seems).
I'm not going to apologise if repeating these vile tweets here makes some people uncomfortable - they need to know that real, serious threats are being made against the McCanns and they play a role in it themselves, by encouraging people to believe that the McCanns are guilty of something very bad and encouraging them to take action. The person who made those death threats retweeted numerous tweets made by several well-known sceptics, all of them based on innuendo, gossip, myths and outright lies. Anyone who devotes a large part of their life to disseminating anti McCann propaganda has to take some part of the blame when more extreme threats and comments like these appear on social media. It's telling that no "sceptics" that I can see ever remonstrated with this individual about the content of his tweets.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on November 08, 2014, 02:41:31 PM
I think it's important to show the level of depravity demonstrated against the McCanns on social media, a hatred which time and again is denied to exist by some of the supposedly more rational "sceptics". I also think it's worth asking why some of these supposedly rational "sceptics" actively choose to have such despicable posts on their timeline by choosing to follow the individual who made those threats. Even more worrying to note is that "sceptic" champion and voice Sonia Poulton appears to be supportive of the individual who made those tweets (not of those tweets specifically but of his campaign for "justice" - his own as well as Maddie's it seems).
I'm not going to apologise if repeating these vile tweets here makes some people uncomfortable - they need to know that real, serious threats are being made against the McCanns and they play a role in it themselves, by encouraging people to believe that the McCanns are guilty of something very bad and encouraging them to take action. The person who made those death threats retweeted numerous tweets made by several well-known sceptics, all of them based on innuendo, gossip, myths and outright lies. Anyone who devotes a large part of their life to disseminating anti McCann propaganda has to take some part of the blame when more extreme threats and comments like these appear on social media. It's telling that no "sceptics" that I can see ever remonstrated with this individual about the content of his tweets.
So you would rather fan the flames than stop the threatening tweeters?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on November 08, 2014, 02:54:49 PM
I think it's important to show the level of depravity demonstrated against the McCanns on social media, a hatred which time and again is denied to exist by some of the supposedly more rational "sceptics". I also think it's worth asking why some of these supposedly rational "sceptics" actively choose to have such despicable posts on their timeline by choosing to follow the individual who made those threats. Even more worrying to note is that "sceptic" champion and voice Sonia Poulton appears to be supportive of the individual who made those tweets (not of those tweets specifically but of his campaign for "justice" - his own as well as Maddie's it seems).
I'm not going to apologise if repeating these vile tweets here makes some people uncomfortable - they need to know that real, serious threats are being made against the McCanns and they play a role in it themselves, by encouraging people to believe that the McCanns are guilty of something very bad and encouraging them to take action. The person who made those death threats retweeted numerous tweets made by several well-known sceptics, all of them based on innuendo, gossip, myths and outright lies. Anyone who devotes a large part of their life to disseminating anti McCann propaganda has to take some part of the blame when more extreme threats and comments like these appear on social media. It's telling that no "sceptics" that I can see ever remonstrated with this individual about the content of his tweets.
It isn't possible to remonstrate with these people Alfie regardless of what side they post on no more than Kate or Gerry can control supporters who post death threats. The only way these individuals will take notice is when the cops knock at their door and issue them with a caution.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 08, 2014, 03:45:26 PM
Not that I am on any kind of antisocial media you understand, however were I on such I suspect I could spend all my time and more bashing the kooks of what ever flavour with whom I did not agree. So the burning question is why do some think I believe and support the kooks I have never heard of?
The ones to worry about are the ones hiding their intentions and saying nothing, who will actually do something!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on November 08, 2014, 03:48:24 PM
Not that I am on any kind of antisocial media you understand, however were I on such I suspect I could spend all my time and more bashing the kooks of what ever flavour with whom I did not agree. So the burning question is why do some think I believe and support the kooks I have never heard of?
The ones to worry about are the ones hiding their intentions and saying nothing, who will actually do something!
This is one advantage Facebook has over Twitter. The majority of Facebook users are known and recognized whilst those on twitter are predominantly using pseudonyms. At least that has been my experience.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: John on November 08, 2014, 03:53:37 PM
But why repeat them why not just report them? If it were libel repeating it would be libellous.
Repeating what someone else posted is not necessarily libellous if done so in the context of awareness. Under UK law you have to have the mens rea of intent to make a post criminally liable.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 08, 2014, 03:58:46 PM
Ah I feel a propoganda campaign against Sonia Poulton coming on !!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on November 08, 2014, 04:50:56 PM
It doesn’t matter what the tragedy is there will be some extremely disturbed individual desperate to take advantage of it to add to the pain and suffering of people they don’t know.
Their anonymity is just a badge of their cowardice … whatever other personality defects they suffer from which imo must be legion.
Bad and bad enough being a “professional guerrilla” flitting from one personal tragedy to another to get your kicks … but special mention must be made of those who have sustained trolling campaigns against the McCanns for over seven years. They are in a category of their own.
>>snip<< Since the accident, a Twitter account posing as Matilda Winkleman has surfaced tweeting hurtful jibes to the Strictly Come Dancing host about what happened to her daughter.
The account constantly sends twisted messages to Claudia, 42, about her daughter’s skin burning.
A social media expert told The Sun that the account is a ‘pop up’ created by a ‘professional’ troll used for ‘guerrilla trolling’. Unfortunately it’s hard to trace..
So you would rather fan the flames than stop the threatening tweeters?
I am not fanning the flames, I am shining a light on those who allow these disgusting tweets on their timeline unchallenged, and on those who actively support the threat-maker. Why do you have a problem with this?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 08, 2014, 05:45:42 PM
This is one advantage Facebook has over Twitter. The majority of Facebook users are known and recognized whilst those on twitter are predominantly using pseudonyms. At least that has been my experience.
Sadly in the case of McCann "sceptics" many of them also operate on FB under pseudonyms.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 08, 2014, 05:47:37 PM
There are individuals who say horrific things and make shocking threats online.
There are individuals who doubt the McCanns story and say so online.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING !!!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 08, 2014, 05:51:06 PM
It doesn’t matter what the tragedy is there will be some extremely disturbed individual desperate to take advantage of it to add to the pain and suffering of people they don’t know.
Their anonymity is just a badge of their cowardice … whatever other personality defects they suffer from which imo must be legion.
Bad and bad enough being a “professional guerrilla” flitting from one personal tragedy to another to get your kicks … but special mention must be made of those who have sustained trolling campaigns against the McCanns for over seven years. They are in a category of their own.
>>snip<< Since the accident, a Twitter account posing as Matilda Winkleman has surfaced tweeting hurtful jibes to the Strictly Come Dancing host about what happened to her daughter.
The account constantly sends twisted messages to Claudia, 42, about her daughter’s skin burning.
A social media expert told The Sun that the account is a ‘pop up’ created by a ‘professional’ troll used for ‘guerrilla trolling’. Unfortunately it’s hard to trace..
It is possible that these folk belong to several,for want of a better expression, "action groups". That is they are not really interested in the principle but are there just to have a "pop" or behave as yobs for the sake of it. Then the yin to that particular yang is the sort of person who puts it about that anyone with a particular view must be tarred with the same brush as those extreme yobs on the periphery. I can't see the difference in the two types frankly. Remember the Poll Tax riots? only one fox hunt was sabotaged that week end &%+((£
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 08, 2014, 05:56:27 PM
There are individuals who say horrific things and make shocking threats online.
There are individuals who doubt the McCanns story and say so online.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING !!!
And a large number of the latter have no problem whatsoever with the actions of the former, in fact many of them interact quite happily with the threat-makers whilst ignoring the more extreme threats and oh-so-hilarious satirical images, etc.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 08, 2014, 06:24:10 PM
And a large number of the latter have no problem whatsoever with the actions of the former, in fact many of them interact quite happily with the threat-makers whilst ignoring the more extreme threats and oh-so-hilarious satirical images, etc.
How many exactly?
Where can one see the statistics?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 09, 2014, 01:00:35 AM
And a large number of the latter have no problem whatsoever with the actions of the former, in fact many of them interact quite happily with the threat-makers whilst ignoring the more extreme threats and oh-so-hilarious satirical images, etc.
........and the number of mccann supporters who are threat-makers, make offensive posts,and post oh-so-hilarious satirical images.
Now what do you say about them ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Jean-Pierre on November 09, 2014, 09:19:16 AM
.........and don't pretend they don't exist, along with the hate filled language on those sites.
I have. A few idiots, but I cannot really see what you are complaining about. If you want to discuss this you are going to have be more specific. By PM if you like.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 09, 2014, 10:43:14 AM
I think I am getting the picture. The grass cutters* who grass cut the grass cutters are just a few idiots but the grass cutters are really terrorists who are actually going to to take action "with extreme prejudice" the opinion being made on the basis of a few screwball posts that are no more screwball than the posts made made by the grass cutters who grass cut the grass cutters. Well I suppose that makes sort of sense.
* Husqvarna or Hayter as applicable.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on November 09, 2014, 11:38:43 AM
There are individuals who say horrific things and make shocking threats online.
There are individuals who doubt the McCanns story and say so online.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING !!!
There is no "story" to doubt: only a strictly factual sequence of events of which Madeleine, Kate and Gerry and Madeleine's extended family are all victim
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 11:48:29 AM
You want statistics? I'd say approaching 100% of McCann "sceptics" fail on a regular basis to challenge those that post vile satirical images of the McCanns, the snider insults and the death threats. If I'm wrong then feel free to post here all the McCann sceptics' tweets challenging the tweeter who made the threats I posted on here earlier and I will revise my estimate accordingly.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on November 09, 2014, 12:28:46 PM
You want statistics? I'd say approaching 100% of McCann "sceptics" fail on a regular basis to challenge those that post vile satirical images of the McCanns, the snider insults and the death threats. If I'm wrong then feel free to post here all the McCann sceptics' tweets challenging the tweeter who made the threats I posted on here earlier and I will revise my estimate accordingly.
I am not going to start looking at #mccann just so I can start challenging tweets of which I currently have no knowledge.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on November 09, 2014, 12:42:23 PM
All talk, I reckon. People say stupid things. No one is actually going to do anything.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 12:49:10 PM
I am not going to start looking at #mccann just so I can start challenging tweets of which I currently have no knowledge.
I am talking about McCann "sceptics" who use social media specifically, people who tweet and facebook their abuse (of whom there are thousands) - if that's not you then your conscience is clear innit?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 12:49:52 PM
All talk, I reckon. People say stupid things. No one is actually going to do anything.
Yeah, that's what they said about the teenage boy who knifed his teacher to death.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
When a group of people get together every day to pour scorn and vitriol on another and it soon becomes the norm, then it usually doesn't take long before the hate group are egging each other on to say more and more hateful things, sometimes this will include threats of violence. If you are a part of this group then you have to take a certain amount of responsibility for what is said and done if you stay quiet about it, even if you disapprove of some of what is said. McCann "sceptics" who say they do not hate or abuse but only question are generally very quiet indeed when it comes to challenging the hate and abuse of others - why is that I wonder?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 09, 2014, 01:03:47 PM
When a group of people get together every day to pour scorn and vitriol on another and it soon becomes the norm, then it usually doesn't take long before the hate group are egging each other on to say more and more hateful things, sometimes this will include threats of violence. If you are a part of this group then you have to take a certain amount of responsibility for what is said and done if you stay quiet about it, even if you disapprove of some of what is said. McCann "sceptics" who say they do not hate or abuse but only question are generally very quiet indeed when it comes to challenging the hate and abuse of others - why is that I wonder?
I don't use facebook or twitter, I only post here.
The only group I'm a part of is my swimming club.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 09, 2014, 01:16:45 PM
All talk, I reckon. People say stupid things. No one is actually going to do anything.
That's what people thought about FB / tweets of the deranged prior to school shootings, for example...
People have expressed wishes that someone would take specific action. All it takes is for one nutcase to decide to be a "hero" and actually carry out what others weren't willing to do themselves.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: carlymichelle on November 09, 2014, 01:17:13 PM
intresting article in daily mail
Mother battles to remove police caution for leaving her son, 6, home alone for 45 minutes, eight years ago
Ministers urged to issue guidance on the age when children can be trusted Government says there is no law on the issue and points to NCPCC Lib Dem MP John Hemming says: 'The law should always be clear' Mother in battle to remove caution for leaving her son eight years ago
By Matt Chorley, Political Editor for MailOnline
Published: 21:56 AEST, 9 November 2014 | Updated: 23:06 AEST, 9 November 2014
A mother is fighting for the removal of a police caution she was given eight years ago after leaving her six-year-old son home alone for 45 minutes.
Removed Parents risk being branded criminals if they leave their children home alone because the law on neglect is not clear, it was warned today.
The government is being urged to issue guidance on the age at which youngsters can be trusted on their own, and for how long. There is nothing in the law about when children can be left home alone, only a warning that they must not be put at risk
There is nothing in the law about when children can be left home alone, only a warning that they must not be put at risk
At present the law does not state an age when a parent can leave a child on their own.
It is, however, an offence for a child to be put at risk by not being supervised.
The Department for Education directs parents to the NSPCC for information.
However, Lib Dem MP John Hemming is calling for the government to be clearer about the circumstances in which parents could be cautioned or prosecuted by police.
'It is not at all clear for how long and at what age children can be left alone,' he told The Sunday Times.
'Nor is it clear whether leaving them alone is either not an issue, a child-protection issue or a criminal issue.
'I sent my daughter, then aged 10, on the train from Birmingham to stay with my mother in Devon. There were no changes and she was met at the other end. Was that acceptable?'
He went on: 'I find it odd that whereas it is lawful to send the child to the park and leave them there, it is not lawful to leave them home alone.
'My main concern in all this is clarity. The law should always be clear. We need a debate about what the rules should be.'
WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SAYS...
The law doesn’t say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.
Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone.
The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:
children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time children under 16 shouldn’t be left alone overnight babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone
Parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised ‘in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health’.
It follows the case of a women called Joan who eight years ago left he son, aged six at the time, while she had a driving lesson – her last before her driving test.
'We went to the school but it was closed. There was no one home to look after him. He was in no danger when I left him,' she told the newspaper.
She returned to find the police on her doorstep after a nurse called at the house and the boy answered the door.
Joan went to her local police station and was given a caution, which has since meant she struggled to pursue her chosen career as a mental health nurse. She is now trying to have the caution removed.
She added: 'I applied to five universities to study and four did not accept me because of this caution,' she said. 'I am now trying to get this removed. My son is 14, at school and absolutely fine.'
A spokesman for the Department for Education said 'The law is clear that parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health. It is vital children be kept safe.'
A page on the gov.uk website states: 'The law doesn't say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it's an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.
'Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone.
'The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:
· children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
· children under 16 shouldn't be left alone overnight
· babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone
'Parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised 'in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health'.'
yet davel thinks the mcanns didnt break the law
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on November 09, 2014, 02:13:11 PM
i personally think it was cruel of the mcanns to leave maddie alone every night crying even though maddie asked why they didnt come when she cried
That is the reason that you believe justifies 7 years of abuse ..Is it?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 02:30:07 PM
[ censored word ]s will always believe they are in the right, until they are proven wrong when they just slink back into the shadows without a word of contrition, awaiting the next victim to stick their forks into. Remember it happening to the boyfriend and father of poor Joanna Yeates....
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 09, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
[ censored word ] will always believe they are in the right, until they are proven wrong when they just slink back into the shadows without a word of contrition, awaiting the next victim to stick their forks into. Remember it happening to the boyfriend and father of poor Joanna Yeates....
Who?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on November 09, 2014, 02:44:42 PM
Oh well! If "I know"is the accepted Norm nowadays.......All crimes will be more easily solved in the future. Don't you think? No evidence required at all, just find them guilty on a "say so"
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on November 09, 2014, 02:48:08 PM
A board which prides itself on only allowing evidence-based statements, and which takes sanctions against members who make statements which are not evidence-based, should do something about the perpetrators of certain statements on this thread ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 09, 2014, 02:50:00 PM
Oh well! If "I know"is the accepted Norm nowadays.......All crimes will be more easily solved in the future. Don't you think? No evidence required at all, just find them guilty on a "say so"
This ain't a court, case you ain't noticed.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 09, 2014, 03:01:21 PM
Oh well! If "I know"is the accepted Norm nowadays.......All crimes will be more easily solved in the future. Don't you think? No evidence required at all, just find them guilty on a "say so"
Much easier. A lynch mob in Paraguay decided that some woman was a witch and burned her alive... presumably, because they "knew".
A board which prides itself on only allowing evidence-based statements, and which takes sanctions against members who make statements which are not evidence-based, should do something about the perpetrators of certain statements on this thread ...
You're right, I tell a lie.
My previous statement...
"Who said anything about evidence?
I'm able to know, because it's just too friggin obvious that 'abduction' ain't wot 'appened.
That's how I'm able to know."
Is in fact evidence based.
It's based on the window only being open on Kates say so, neither parent phoning the police despite knowing & the laughable improbability of the abduction theses, amongst other things.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 09, 2014, 03:21:45 PM
I'm able to know, because it's just too friggin obvious that 'abduction' ain't wot 'appened.
That's how I'm able to know."
Is in fact evidence based.
It's based on the window only being open on Kates say so, neither parent phoning the police despite knowing & the laughable improbability of the abduction theses, amongst other things.
Parents' worst fears do not always turn out to be true, thankfully.
No one has come forward to state that Kate's account of the window is false.
She collapsed in a heap after alerting others. Gerry was running around looking for her. Friends with them via OC alerted the police. At the time friends / OC / GNR thought it possible that she'd simply walked and wandered and would be found safe and sound.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 03:38:30 PM
We've heard from a troll on this thread that the McCanns deserve to be abused. Now, this provides an opportunity for other "sceptics" who don't believe in abuse and death threats to challenge this notion. Come on all you kind, reasonable "sceptics", do you think the McCanns deserve the abuse they get from people like Spam or not? Speak up, we can't hear you!
Bump.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 05:07:24 PM
So, after nearly two hours no reply to my question from the kind, reasonable, only questioning 8**8:/: "sceptics" as to whether or not the McCanns deserve to be abused by trolls, despite the fact that several were on here and reading this thread. How very odd.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on November 09, 2014, 05:23:40 PM
So, after nearly two hours no reply to my question from the kind, reasonable, only questioning 8**8:/: "sceptics" as to whether or not the McCanns deserve to be abused by trolls, despite the fact that several were on here and reading this thread. How very odd.
Do the mccanns deserve criticism for their behaviour, which led to Madeleine's disappearance ?
YES.
After all, who is responsible for what happened in this case, when they left their three children all by themselves, for hours on end, with intermittent and uncorroborated checks ?
As to abuse, it has comes from both sides.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 09, 2014, 05:26:49 PM
Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
What is the latest on this investigation? does anyone know?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 09, 2014, 05:27:29 PM
Do the mccanns deserve criticism for their behaviour, which led to Madeleine's disappearance ?
YES.
After all, who is responsible for what happened in this case, when they left their three children all by themselves, for hours on end, with intermittent and uncorroborated checks ?
As to abuse, it has comes from both sides.
The abduction theses abuse common sense.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 09, 2014, 05:44:43 PM
Do the mccanns deserve criticism for their behaviour, which led to Madeleine's disappearance ?
YES.
After all, who is responsible for what happened in this case, when they left their three children all by themselves, for hours on end, with intermittent and uncorroborated checks ?
As to abuse, it has comes from both sides.
Where does the line lie between criticism and abuse?
Spam finds abuse perfectly ok.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 09, 2014, 05:48:26 PM
Where does the line lie between criticism and abuse?
Spam finds abuse perfectly ok.
Seven years of daily criticism crosses the line and did so many years ago IMO. But of course it isn't just criticism is it, as well we know. so far, not one "sceptic" on here has chosen to condemn online abuse of the McCanns, and one has publicly given it the thumbs up.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 09, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
Your abductor requires a key & to have opened the window & shutters for some reason.
Pull the other one.
Some people have hair...., it comes out.
Some people stand on balconies & smoke fags, then put them out.
And?
Indeed, they do. But who did all those unidentified hairs belong to in 5A? Don't you think that it's worth checking, or do you find unknown DNA at a crime scene irrelevant?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 09, 2014, 06:09:43 PM
Indeed, they do. But who did all those unidentified hairs belong to in 5A? Don't you think that it's worth checking, or do you find unknown DNA at a crime scene irrelevant?
So now we have a key holding abductor, or several, with alopecia.
It just gets better all the time.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on November 09, 2014, 06:27:02 PM
Indeed, they do. But who did all those unidentified hairs belong to in 5A? Don't you think that it's worth checking, or do you find unknown DNA at a crime scene irrelevant?
When you KNOW who dunnit, who needs to bother with stuff like DNA or other evidence?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 06:29:47 PM
But anyway, we are digressing somewhat from the subject of abusive internet trolls (unless we consider responding to the presence of one on this thread to be 'on topic').
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on November 09, 2014, 06:35:26 PM
When a group of people get together every day to pour scorn and vitriol on another and it soon becomes the norm, then it usually doesn't take long before the hate group are egging each other on to say more and more hateful things, sometimes this will include threats of violence. If you are a part of this group then you have to take a certain amount of responsibility for what is said and done if you stay quiet about it, even if you disapprove of some of what is said. McCann "sceptics" who say they do not hate or abuse but only question are generally very quiet indeed when it comes to challenging the hate and abuse of others - why is that I wonder?
You talk about hate groups and then sceptics and then conflate the two...?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 09, 2014, 06:35:26 PM
But anyway, we are digressing somewhat from the subject of abusive internet trolls (unless we consider responding to the presence of one on this thread to be 'on topic').
Aw goo on Alf boy tell us who it is, in your humble opinion of course.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 06:39:03 PM
You talk about hate groups and then sceptics and then conflate the two...?
You don't think there are any "sceptics" that are also members of hate groups then? As I said before, if you are not a member of a hate group (and by that I include the regular posse of h8ers on twitter and facebook) then I am not talking about you. Now, do the McCanns deserve the online abuse they receive or are you going to duck the question again?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
The guy who made the death threats I posted earlier, who is followed by a number of McCann sceptics including Sonia Poulton, is he classed as a h8er, a sceptic, or both out of interest? Do you stop being a member of the sceptic club when you post something abusive, hateful or threatening? Just wondering what the rules are...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on November 09, 2014, 06:51:41 PM
Seven years of daily criticism crosses the line and did so many years ago IMO. But of course it isn't just criticism is it, as well we know. so far, not one "sceptic" on here has chosen to condemn online abuse of the McCanns, and one has publicly given it the thumbs up.
Criticism doesn't become abuse because it continues.
Most doubters here have condemned serious abuse and threats to the McCanns and don't see the point in repeating it ad nauseum. We can criticise, point at problems with their testimony, highlight other facts without abusing anyone.
WS just provides a counter balance to yourself, Davel and the choir.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 09, 2014, 06:52:08 PM
Can anyone shed light on what a h8er is and why Alf keeps referring to them? Are they some kind of tribe like the Fagarwe? or is he just being sneaky to get round forum rules? What say you Mods and Admin?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 07:01:57 PM
Criticism doesn't become abuse because it continues.
Most doubters here have condemned serious abuse and threats to the McCanns and don't see the point in repeating it ad nauseum. We can criticise, point at problems with their testimony, highlight other facts without abusing anyone.
WS just provides a counter balance to yourself, Davel and the choir.
So the troll provides a valuable service to the oh-so-innocent criticisers like you then. Quite.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 07:05:53 PM
Is it against forum rules to discuss h8ers in the abstract then? I thought the word was banned so it was not used to abuse another forum member. What word then is acceptable to the mods to describe the large bunch of individuals who, in their leisure time like pour scorn and vitriol on the McCanns (when they're taking a little break from the serious business of criticising and questioning)?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on November 09, 2014, 07:08:34 PM
Criticism doesn't become abuse because it continues.
Most doubters here have condemned serious abuse and threats to the McCanns and don't see the point in repeating it ad nauseum. We can criticise, point at problems with their testimony, highlight other facts without abusing anyone.
WS just provides a counter balance to yourself, Davel and the choir.
Ill-informed criticism is abuse, especially coming from people who have read the files and should know better ...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 09, 2014, 07:12:31 PM
Is it against forum rules to discuss h8ers in the abstract then? I thought the word was banned so it was not used to abuse another forum member. What word then is acceptable to the mods to describe the large bunch of individuals who, in their leisure time like pour scorn and vitriol on the McCanns (when they're taking a little break from the serious business of criticising and questioning)?
Why the need to lump people together?
Oh. I know, it's for obtaining disapproval & it's a tired old propaganda technique.
Yawn.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 09, 2014, 07:24:24 PM
Is it against forum rules to discuss h8ers in the abstract then? I thought the word was banned so it was not used to abuse another forum member. What word then is acceptable to the mods to describe the large bunch of individuals who, in their leisure time like pour scorn and vitriol on the McCanns (when they're taking a little break from the serious business of criticising and questioning)?
It is not just the McCanns who are on the receiving end of internet abuse at the hands(?) of those whose ethos is to be spiteful and vitriolic just for the fun of it. Do you object to all such behaviour or are you being selective? Do you consider that all who do not believe the "official line" are actually all lumped together as your so styled h8ers? As for those who spend an inordinate amount of time tweeting, tw..ting or facebooking or whatever about whomsoever and being generally abusive and snidey the word tosspot will do. Oh I will not hold my breath for you reply as you have me on "selective ignore".
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on November 09, 2014, 07:26:36 PM
Oh. I know, it's for obtaining disapproval & it's a tired old propaganda technique.
Yawn.
It's even better to lump people in with real looneys, you can then treat them all as real looneys.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 07:44:18 PM
I've started a new thread about it, and all I want to know is simply whether you think online abuse of the McCanns is justified. If you don't want to be all lumped into the same category now's an opportunity to speak up. Not really interested in your excuses for not answering a straight question with a straight answer.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on November 09, 2014, 07:49:49 PM
I've started a new thread about it, and all I want to know is simply whether you think online abuse of the McCanns is justified. If you don't want to be all lumped into the same category now's an opportunity to speak up. Not really interested in your excuses for not answering a straight question with a straight answer.
I condemn what I regard of abuse of the McCanns.
And before you go off on one you would have to give your definition of abuse before I could condemn that.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on November 09, 2014, 08:44:21 PM
And before you go off on one you would have to give your definition of abuse before I could condemn that.
you want to condemn my definition of abuse? &%+((£. But seriously, how about you tell me what you understand by abuse, seeing as how you've just condemned it, you must know what it is exactly that you're condemning.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: slartibartfast on November 09, 2014, 09:09:35 PM
you want to condemn my definition of abuse? &%+((£. But seriously, how about you tell me what you understand by abuse, seeing as how you've just condemned it, you must know what it is exactly that you're condemning.
You asked people to condemn abuse, so it is for you to define.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on November 09, 2014, 09:11:24 PM
Tannerman used to be called Bundleman, but Tannerman is a better name , cos everyone can identify him from that.
thank you Sadie, So it is crecheman.................Why so many names to these men. I don't believe it was crecheman/bundleman, so don't know where WS got that, but I do believe there is a possibility that JT saw someone else. Does that make sense? I will call him Mysteryman.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 09, 2014, 09:23:06 PM
thank you Sadie, So it is crecheman.................Why so many names to these men. I don't believe it was crecheman/bundleman, so don't know where WS got that, but I do believe there is a possibility that JT saw someone else. Does that make sense? I will call him Mysteryman.
Why has my post explaining things to Anna, a newish person to the case details, been taken down? Leaving incorrect information up? She is a member and needs to know the facts.
Reading Annas post without this post merely obfuscates and encourages the reader to falsely believe that Crechman is Tannerman. That is not likely to be true. Jane Tanner saw Tannerman at 9.20'ish going in a different direction to Crechman and also to a different place. Three things different.
Crechman is the man that SY have been informed left the Crech on Rua Direita at about 10pm IIRC. He was walking in the wrong place and direction to be Tanner man and also at the wrong time. Three things wrong.
I wonder if SY have fallen for yet another Red Herring tbh. cos none of us heard any of this at the time nor until just very recently. I only wonder.
Tannerman was the man that Jane Tanner saw after she passed Gerry and Jez chatting at about 9.20-9.25pm. He walked from west to est across the top of Rua Francisco Gentil Martins
Smithman is the man that The Smith family saw walking doen Rua d'Escola from North to South. This was about 10pm
This video shows Jane Tanners recollections. She is a very sincere woman, also intelligent, and I personally do not doubt either her integrity or her memory
Cutting Edge Viseo Youtube,
http://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY
Starting at 9.25 Especially at 11.54, then crying at 12.27. Finishes at 12.40
Jane Tanner is lucid and honest. Totally distraught at the memory and the knowledge that she might have stopped Madeleine being taken, had the penny only dropped..
So either there were two men in that immediate area, Tannerman and Crechman .... or someone has pulled a fast one on SY.
I prefer to believe the former, two men.... but I am open minded[/size]
PLease leave this post up
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 10, 2014, 06:06:30 PM
Why has my post explaining things to Anna, a newish person to the case details, been taken down? Leaving incorrect information up? She is a member and needs to know the facts.
Reading Annas post without this post merely obfuscates and encourages the reader to falsely believe that Crechman is Tannerman. That is not likely to be true. Jane Tanner saw Tannerman at 9.20'ish going in a different direction to Crechman and also to a different place. Three things different.
Crechman is the man that SY have been informed left the Crech on Rua Direita at about 10pm IIRC. He was walking in the wrong place and direction to be Tanner man and also at the wrong time. Three things wrong.
I wonder if SY have fallen for yet another Red Herring tbh. cos none of us heard any of this at the time nor until just very recently. I only wonder.
Tannerman was the man that Jane Tanner saw after she passed Gerry and Jez chatting at about 9.20-9.25pm. He walked from west to est across the top of Rua Francisco Gentil Martins
Smithman is the man that The Smith family saw walking doen Rua d'Escola from North to South. This was about 10pm
This video shows Jane Tanners recollections. She is a very sincere woman, also intelligent, and I personally do not doubt either her integrity or her memory
Cutting Edge Viseo Youtube,
http://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY
Starting at 9.25 Especially at 11.54, then crying at 12.27. Finishes at 12.40
Jane Tanner is lucid and honest. Totally distraught at the memory and the knowledge that she might have stopped Madeleine being taken, had the penny only dropped..
So either there were two men in that immediate area, Tannerman and Crechman .... or someone has pulled a fast one on SY.
I prefer to believe the former, two men.... but I am open minded[/size]
PLease leave this post up
If Ms Tanner still believed she had seen an abductor she would have told that nice Mr Redwood...
..But, she hasn't...
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Anna on November 10, 2014, 06:15:31 PM
Why has my post explaining things to Anna, a newish person to the case details, been taken down? Leaving incorrect information up? She is a member and needs to know the facts.
Reading Annas post without this post merely obfuscates and encourages the reader to falsely believe that Crechman is Tannerman. That is not likely to be true. Jane Tanner saw Tannerman at 9.20'ish going in a different direction to Crechman and also to a different place. Three things different.
Crechman is the man that SY have been informed left the Crech on Rua Direita at about 10pm IIRC. He was walking in the wrong place and direction to be Tanner man and also at the wrong time. Three things wrong.
I wonder if SY have fallen for yet another Red Herring tbh. cos none of us heard any of this at the time nor until just very recently. I only wonder.
Tannerman was the man that Jane Tanner saw after she passed Gerry and Jez chatting at about 9.20-9.25pm. He walked from west to est across the top of Rua Francisco Gentil Martins
Smithman is the man that The Smith family saw walking doen Rua d'Escola from North to South. This was about 10pm
This video shows Jane Tanners recollections. She is a very sincere woman, also intelligent, and I personally do not doubt either her integrity or her memory
Cutting Edge Viseo Youtube,
http://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY
Starting at 9.25 Especially at 11.54, then crying at 12.27. Finishes at 12.40
Jane Tanner is lucid and honest. Totally distraught at the memory and the knowledge that she might have stopped Madeleine being taken, had the penny only dropped..
So either there were two men in that immediate area, Tannerman and Crechman .... or someone has pulled a fast one on SY.
I prefer to believe the former, two men.... but I am open minded[/size]
PLease leave this post up
thanks Sadie....I have got it! I think we are OT, but I was questioning WS Bundleman comment.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on November 10, 2014, 06:21:24 PM
And as I have also pointed out, why be caught climbing out of a window when you have a key to the door ?
We don't know whether Mrs Fenn's intruder had a key or not, merely that reports suggested he had. Unfortuntely, the PJ seemed more interested in her version of crying children during the week of the disappearance - she only became an important witness after the dogs had been into 5a.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on November 10, 2014, 06:27:29 PM
thanks Sadie....I have got it! I think we are OT, but I was questioning WS Bundleman comment.
Sadie, I think you've got that wrong. Crecheman was SY's "revelation moment" - the man who was supposedly the man Jane Tanner saw at around 9.20 - which altered the timeline.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on November 10, 2014, 06:57:17 PM
Why has my post explaining things to Anna, a newish person to the case details, been taken down? Leaving incorrect information up? She is a member and needs to know the facts.
Reading Annas post without this post merely obfuscates and encourages the reader to falsely believe that Crechman is Tannerman. That is not likely to be true. Jane Tanner saw Tannerman at 9.20'ish going in a different direction to Crechman and also to a different place. Three things different.
Crechman is the man that SY have been informed left the Crech on Rua Direita at about 10pm IIRC. He was walking in the wrong place and direction to be Tanner man and also at the wrong time. Three things wrong.
I wonder if SY have fallen for yet another Red Herring tbh. cos none of us heard any of this at the time nor until just very recently. I only wonder.
Tannerman was the man that Jane Tanner saw after she passed Gerry and Jez chatting at about 9.20-9.25pm. He walked from west to est across the top of Rua Francisco Gentil Martins
Smithman is the man that The Smith family saw walking doen Rua d'Escola from North to South. This was about 10pm
This video shows Jane Tanners recollections. She is a very sincere woman, also intelligent, and I personally do not doubt either her integrity or her memory
Cutting Edge Viseo Youtube,
http://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY
Starting at 9.25 Especially at 11.54, then crying at 12.27. Finishes at 12.40
Jane Tanner is lucid and honest. Totally distraught at the memory and the knowledge that she might have stopped Madeleine being taken, had the penny only dropped..
So either there were two men in that immediate area, Tannerman and Crechman .... or someone has pulled a fast one on SY.
I prefer to believe the former, two men.... but I am open minded[/size]
PLease leave this post up
I'm not sure about that Sadie.
Bundleman used to be the nickname for Tannerman, and SY reckon Tannerman is Crecheman. It may turn out that Tannerman isn't Crecheman after all, but Redwood wanted people to concentrate on Smithman and / or any recollection of someone carrying a child at around 10 pm.
Officers from Scotland Yard have ruled out a key sighting on the day Madeleine vanished and are trying to identify a number of mysterious men seen lurking around the apartment where it is believed she was abducted.
A man seen carrying a child by the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner is now thought to have been an innocent British holiday maker, and the investigation is now focusing on another man with dark hair who was also seen with a little girl in his arms around 45 minutes later.
(...)
Speaking after a new appeal aired on BBC Crimewatch, Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said: "Our focus in terms of understanding what happened on the night of May 3 has now given us a shift of emphasis. We are almost certain that the man seen by Jane Tanner is not Madeleine's abductor.
"It takes us through to a position at 10pm when we see another man who is walking towards the ocean, close by to the apartment, with a young child in his arms. This child is described as being about three to four years of age with blonde hair, possibly wearing pyjamas, and the man is a white man with dark hair.
"If this is you, and you are nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance, then we really need to speak to you. It's so important for us to eliminate innocent sightings. But equally if anybody is looking at those e-fits and recognises the person, for whatever reason, then please have the courage to call in and tell us." http://news.stv.tv/scotland/243276-madeleine-mccann-suspect-was-seen-carrying-young-child-away-from-resort/
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: stephen25000 on November 10, 2014, 07:39:16 PM
I see that more of the mccann supporter trolls tweets to Brenda Leyland have become available on a link on the current amazon discussion.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 10, 2014, 07:41:15 PM
Bundleman used to be the nickname for Tannerman, and SY reckon Tannerman is Crecheman. It may turn out that Tannerman isn't Crecheman after all, but Redwood wanted people to concentrate on Smithman and / or any recollection of someone carrying a child at around 10 pm.
Officers from Scotland Yard have ruled out a key sighting on the day Madeleine vanished and are trying to identify a number of mysterious men seen lurking around the apartment where it is believed she was abducted.
A man seen carrying a child by the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner is now thought to have been an innocent British holiday maker, and the investigation is now focusing on another man with dark hair who was also seen with a little girl in his arms around 45 minutes later.
(...)
Speaking after a new appeal aired on BBC Crimewatch, Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said: "Our focus in terms of understanding what happened on the night of May 3 has now given us a shift of emphasis. We are almost certain that the man seen by Jane Tanner is not Madeleine's abductor.
"It takes us through to a position at 10pm when we see another man who is walking towards the ocean, close by to the apartment, with a young child in his arms. This child is described as being about three to four years of age with blonde hair, possibly wearing pyjamas, and the man is a white man with dark hair.
"If this is you, and you are nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance, then we really need to speak to you. It's so important for us to eliminate innocent sightings. But equally if anybody is looking at those e-fits and recognises the person, for whatever reason, then please have the courage to call in and tell us." http://news.stv.tv/scotland/243276-madeleine-mccann-suspect-was-seen-carrying-young-child-away-from-resort/
This is beginning to have about it the ring of The Court Jester:
"The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true!"
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 10, 2014, 07:53:13 PM
This is beginning to have about it the ring of The Court Jester:
"The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true!"
At least it's moved on from the days of Eggman.
For Brietta: Eggman was the faceless initial PJ sketch of Bundleman/Tannerman who may or may not actually be Crecheman, although Redwood seems fairly sure that they are the same.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: faithlilly on November 10, 2014, 10:54:51 PM
We don't know whether Mrs Fenn's intruder had a key or not, merely that reports suggested he had. Unfortuntely, the PJ seemed more interested in her version of crying children during the week of the disappearance - she only became an important witness after the dogs had been into 5a.
Quite right Misty we don't know if the intruder had a key.
Now perhaps you can go and tell ferryman that ?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: misty on November 10, 2014, 11:58:51 PM
Quite right Misty we don't know if the intruder had a key.
Now perhaps you can go and tell ferryman that ?
Ferryman will be able to read my post on the matter. The whole Mrs Fenn affair doesn't sit well in my mind, I'm afraid. An aged lady trying to grab the foot of an intruder as he escaped through the window.....and she's apparently unfazed by the whole event? Then there was the failure of the PJ to take a statement from her regarding the 3rd May, following her break-in......words fail me.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Eleanor on November 11, 2014, 04:47:23 AM
Okay, back On Topic please. Any more Off Topic Posts will be deleted.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on November 12, 2014, 09:57:27 AM
Joana Morais @xklamation 3 mins3 minutes ago Do not put the new MET "suspects" photos up, they'll be echoed in the world wide media & you all know they're innocent people 2/2 #mccann
Very good advice. 8@??)(
However we should remember that not one of us highly professional armchair detectives has as yet determined the exact status of the people who have been and who will be interviewed.
If necessary that will be the province of the courts if the Portuguese Prosecutor decides there is enough evidence to institute proceedings against them.
It certainly seems to question if we are witnessing a severe case of double standards suffered by Ms Morais as far as Madeleine McCann’s parents are concerned.
The Drs McCann have been investigated to the nth degree. The Portuguese Prosecutors have cleared them of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance.
The fact that they have been proved to be “innocent people” doesn’t appear to come into the equation as far as the internet trolls are concerned … which certainly leaves one to ponder the blog-spots, the YouTube videos, the books, the FB pages, the twitter accounts, the endless campaigns …
>>snip<< Just weeks after Portuguese police delivered their final report on the case to prosecutors, Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro, the country's Attorney General, announced Monday that the investigation would be shelved, following, a statement from his office said, to a "lack of evidence that any crime was committed by the persons placed under formal investigation." http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1825242,00.html
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on November 12, 2014, 10:14:57 AM
Joana Morais @xklamation 3 mins3 minutes ago Do not put the new MET "suspects" photos up, they'll be echoed in the world wide media & you all know they're innocent people 2/2 #mccann
Very good advice. 8@??)(
However we should remember that not one of us highly professional armchair detectives has as yet determined the exact status of the people who have been and who will be interviewed.
If necessary that will be the province of the courts if the Portuguese Prosecutor decides there is enough evidence to institute proceedings against them.
It certainly seems to question if we are witnessing a severe case of double standards suffered by Ms Morais as far as Madeleine McCann’s parents are concerned.
The Drs McCann have been investigated to the nth degree. The Portuguese Prosecutors have cleared them of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance.
The fact that they have been proved to be “innocent people” doesn’t appear to come into the equation as far as the internet trolls are concerned … which certainly leaves one to ponder the blog-spots, the YouTube videos, the books, the FB pages, the twitter accounts, the endless campaigns …
>>snip<< Just weeks after Portuguese police delivered their final report on the case to prosecutors, Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro, the country's Attorney General, announced Monday that the investigation would be shelved, following, a statement from his office said, to a "lack of evidence that any crime was committed by the persons placed under formal investigation." http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1825242,00.html
No. The McCanns are centre stage in this affair and positively courted publicity. These witnesses may have absolutely nothing to do with the case and should not be identified until considered otherwise by the authorities.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on November 12, 2014, 11:09:29 AM
No. The McCanns are centre stage in this affair and positively courted publicity. These witnesses may have absolutely nothing to do with the case and should not be identified until considered otherwise by the authorities.
Do correct me if I am wrong.
You appear to be condoning the merciless and obscene trolling and abuse of the family of a missing child.
You are capable of recognising the human rights of others who are persons of interest in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance …? and I would point out common sense dictates that those to be interviewed most certainly do have some connection to Madeleine's case whether that be as arguido or witness.
There appears to be a rampant epidemic of double standards in evidence from a few quarters.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: jassi on November 12, 2014, 12:17:22 PM
What rubbish you do talk at times. I never mentioned trolling - I was talking about identifying people in the newspapers before they have been labeled as suspects.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on November 12, 2014, 12:23:40 PM
You appear to be condoning the merciless and obscene trolling and abuse of the family of a missing child You are capable of recognising the human rights of others who are persons of interest in Madeleine McCann’s disappearance …? and I would point out common sense dictates that those to be interviewed most certainly do have some connection to Madeleine's case whether that be as arguido or witness.
There appears to be a rampant epidemic of double standards in evidence from a few quarters..
8@??)( Well spoken Brietta.
Double standards and a complete lack of empathy.
Some seem to get sadistic delight out of hurting The Mccanns, whilst defending others.
This sudden concern, never noticed before, poses the question:
Are some of the people being interviewed perhaps people on here /on Joana Morais blogspot, or friends of same?
Only asking, but there must be a reason for the sudden change IMO
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on November 12, 2014, 12:38:37 PM
What rubbish you do talk at times. I never mentioned trolling - I was talking about identifying people in the newspapers before they have been labeled as suspects.
If I speak rubbish at times, at least I usually make the attempt to do it on topic.
In case you hadn’t noticed the title of the thread … it is quite specific … it is about the trolls who have taken pleasure in abusing the family of a missing child.
If you read Ms Morais warning tweet to her followers … she is specific … “you all know they are innocent people.”
Read that very, very carefully ... and think about it … I have.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: sadie on November 12, 2014, 12:43:28 PM
If I speak rubbish at times, at least I usually make the attempt to do it on topic.
In case you hadn’t noticed the title of the thread … it is quite specific … it is about the trolls who have taken pleasure in abusing the family of a missing child.
If you read Ms Morais warning tweet to her followers … she is specific … “you all know they are innocent people.”
Read that very, very carefully ... and think about it … I have.[/size]
How perceptive of you Brietta
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Brietta on November 12, 2014, 12:44:36 PM
Maybe the thought of the dossier in police hands may be concentrating minds, Sadie.
However, IMO the message is still going out … but being presented in a more subtle form.
Definiitely - her tweets have suddenly become protected (since yesterday).
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 13, 2014, 05:49:42 PM
More examples of the kind of really vile abuse directed at the McCanns and their supporters, not only tolerated by but actively followed by a number of high profile "sceptics" on twitter https://twitter.com/StoppsJason
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 14, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
More examples of the kind of really vile abuse directed at the McCanns and their supporters, not only tolerated by but actively followed by a number of high profile "sceptics" on twitter https://twitter.com/StoppsJason
I first heard of this "person" (and read a few posts) just before it was suspended.
Whoever that account belonged to seems to have serious personal issues. And by that I mean that I would not feel comfortable with that person being within a 1,000k radius of anyone I care about.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 14, 2014, 06:41:32 PM
I first heard of this "person" (and read a few posts) just before it was suspended.
Whoever that account belonged to seems to have serious personal issues. And by that I mean that I would not feel comfortable with that person being within a 1,000k radius of anyone I care about.
It's a shame in some ways that the account has been suspended, as it was a perfect example of an abusive twitter account that supposedly serious "sceptics" who are "only asking questions" managed to quite happily tweet along side whilst turning a blind eye to the murderous abuse - not only that but actively choose to follow as well!
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 14, 2014, 07:08:46 PM
It's a shame in some ways that the account has been suspended, as it was a perfect example of an abusive twitter account that supposedly serious "sceptics" who are "only asking questions" managed to quite happily tweet along side whilst turning a blind eye to the murderous abuse - not only that but actively choose to follow as well!
I have never had a problem with people who have genuine questions / doubts. We all might, whatever the topic in the news.
I DO have a problem with sociopaths let loose on the Internet.
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: Carana on November 14, 2014, 08:11:02 PM
Some of these people use extremely offensive language... with a common core theme.
Are the key words they constantly use innocent?
Title: Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
Post by: ferryman on November 15, 2014, 12:50:58 PM