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Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on April 10, 2017, 07:03:09 PM

Title: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 10, 2017, 07:03:09 PM
Excluding practicing lawyers and experts (eg Michael Turner QC and Peter Sutherst both on record saying they believe JB innocent or words to this effect) I guess supporters can be broken down into two groups: those with somewhat of a public profile such as Andrew Hunter MP and actress Susan Penhaligon and those without a public profile such as members of the CT and Mike Tesko.  The group without a public profile attempt to engage with the public: the CT with JB's website, bake-off, graveside reading and letters to the Justic Sec etc and Mike with his forum and youtube vids.  Supporting posters on forums mostly post under first names, derivatives or pseudonyms so don't count.   

Those claiming to be the victim of a MoJ usually have family support either the entire family or a dedicated family member or two eg:

Stefan Kiszko - mother

Sally Clark - husband and father.  In this case SC's husband was a solictor and her father a serving police officer. 

Michael Hickey - mother

Stephen Downing - parents and sister

Sam Hallam - family

Often family members are supported by a significant other:

- Stefan Kiszko - solicitor - Campbell Malone

- Michael Hickey - journalist - Paul Foot

- Stephen Downing - journalist - Don Hale

- Sam Hallam - Actor - Ray Winstone and Playwright - Tess Berry-Hart

Looking further afield the likes of David Bain benefitted from the support of NZ's All Black rugby player Joe Karam.  Amanda Knox benefitted from a very capable group known as 'Judges For Justice'.

Is JB's case a dead duck, long in the water?  Or has JB been disadvantaged, harmed even, by supporters past and present and/or lack of a capable, credible, long-term supporter(s) prepared to commit?   

19
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 10, 2017, 08:36:53 PM
As an aide memoire I thought it might be useful to remind ourselves of supporters past efforts to engage with the public on JB's behalf:

Graveside reading by Trudi Benjamin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsUyH-5t3S4

"How Essex Police Framed Jeremy Bamber" By Mike Tesko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIs2uC2tVk
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 10, 2017, 09:03:23 PM
The current population of planet earth stands at circa 7.5 billion.  Trudi's YouTube vid has so far attracted 688 views and Mike's 65 views. 

Trudi's vid did make it into the electronic versions of daily papers:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/278106/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-has-bizarre-mothers-day-rant-read-at-grave-of-parents-he-killed-30-years-ago/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12180372/Jeremy-Bamber-sends-campaigner-to-record-graveside-message-asserting-innocence.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bamber-sends-supporter-7475685

I've no idea what the objectives were so it's difficult to say whether it was a success or not. 

If JB's conviction is ever quashed maybe the video will attract a lot of publicity or a lot more than the current 688 views.  The public may well think... 'awwww he really did love his family'.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 11, 2017, 12:39:02 PM
A recent vid from the CT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1NMk5tKFHM

An early frame:

"The information in this timeline is taken exclusively from police logs, statements and other police material".

"Other versions of the sequence of events reported in any other media are not correct".   %£&)**#

But hey hang on a sec...don't the very officers whose information you're relying upon also feature in your "Liars Lobby"?   &%+((£

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/liars-lobby
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 11, 2017, 02:45:04 PM
The problem happens more when specific individuals become prominant.

Trudies weekly vlogs were stopped as they were being laughed at. Bamber broke off contact with Mike & asked him to take down his forum. Again because Mike & other supporters are doing more harm than good & guilters are allowed to post. 

Bambergates & Martin Ogram's videos also did no one any favours.

Most supporters on forums refuse to say how Sheila committed the massacre. Which is something that should be simple. Then come up with crazy ideas such as hit man teams, Sheila putting the silencer on & RB shooting himself.

Several dedicated long term supporters have also changed stance on forums. This does not assist Bamber as it shows the prosecution case is so strong. 

If I was Bamber, I would want just want the OS up. This looks professional & no one can dispute what is written. Creating Youtube videos is also a good idea providing the comments section is disabled. Bamber & supporters behind the scenes can attempt to get as much media publicity as possible. On radio, TV & newspapers. This is something Bamber & co are good at & it will create interest from the public. 

While the above is being done, Bamber himself can reply to letters from long term supporters or new people just curious.  This will generate new support and make the long term supporters even more determined to assist, as there are no counter arguments anywhere. But it's too late. The forums are up.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 11, 2017, 04:04:24 PM
The problem happens more when specific individuals become prominant.

Trudies weekly vlogs were stopped as they were being laughed at. Bamber broke off contact with Mike & asked him to take down his forum. Again because Mike & other supporters are doing more harm than good & guilters are allowed to post. 

Bambergates & Martin Ogram's videos also did no one any favours.

Most supporters on forums refuse to say how Sheila committed the massacre. Which is something that should be simple. Then come up with crazy ideas such as hit man teams, Sheila putting the silencer on & RB shooting himself.

Several dedicated long term supporters have also changed stance on forums. This does not assist Bamber as it shows the prosecution case is so strong. 

If I was Bamber, I would want just want the OS up. This looks professional & no one can dispute what is written. Creating Youtube videos is also a good idea providing the comments section is disabled. Bamber & supporters behind the scenes can attempt to get as much media publicity as possible. On radio, TV & newspapers. This is something Bamber & co are good at & will create interest.

While the above is being done, Bamber himself can reply to letters from long term supporters or people just curious.  This will generate new support and make the long term supporters even more determined to assist, as there are no counter arguments anywhere. But it's too late. The forums are up.

If by OS you mean the 'Official Site' I find it contains a lot of inaccurate, incorrect, misleading and irrelevant info.  I agree with what you say in that the CT don't engage in debate, encourage feedback or even give the impression they're open to the views of others.  A very unhealthy situation imo.

Roch is obviously a much kinder and nicer person than I am.  Saying he was disappointed in the recent vid but didn't want to appear too critical.  If I had my way I would give the lot of them the Alex Ferguson hair dryer treatment  8()(((@# 8)><(  @)(++(*

The prosecution case against JB only appears strong as the defence to date has been weak along with general support from the public eg CT, Mike et al.           
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on April 12, 2017, 12:48:08 AM
If by OS you mean the 'Official Site' I find it contains a lot of inaccurate, incorrect, misleading and irrelevant info.  I agree with what you say in that the CT don't engage in debate, encourage feedback or even give the impression they're open to the views of others.  A very unhealthy situation imo.

Roch is obviously a much kinder and nicer person than I am.  Saying he was disappointed in the recent vid but didn't want to appear too critical.  If I had my way I would give the lot of them the Alex Ferguson hair dryer treatment  8()(((@# 8)><(  @)(++(*

The prosecution case against JB only appears strong as the defence to date has been weak along with general support from the public eg CT, Mike et al.         

I have to agree Holly, there is a lot posted on the official site as if it were true established fact when it is merely speculation and wishful thinking.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 12, 2017, 01:22:01 PM
If by OS you mean the 'Official Site' I find it contains a lot of inaccurate, incorrect, misleading and irrelevant info.  I agree with what you say in that the CT don't engage in debate, encourage feedback or even give the impression they're open to the views of others.  A very unhealthy situation imo.

Roch is obviously a much kinder and nicer person than I am.  Saying he was disappointed in the recent vid but didn't want to appear too critical.  If I had my way I would give the lot of them the Alex Ferguson hair dryer treatment  8()(((@# 8)><(  @)(++(*

The prosecution case against JB only appears strong as the defence to date has been weak along with general support from the public eg CT, Mike et al.         

Totally agree! There is some VERY misleading information on the OS. Take the logs for instance, from the way it is written (although it has been edited fairly recently) - most people think that the log claimed to be 'recently discovered' (although it wasn't), is the log written by Bonnett which mentions 'daughter gone berserk etc.' This log was shown to the jury. It is the West log that carries the 'recently discovered' claim. However, the translation of the claim was/is so poor, that the Daily Mirror reported the story incorrectly and had Bonnett's log as 'recently discovered'. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-missing-police-phone-239793 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 12, 2017, 03:18:05 PM
I have to agree Holly, there is a lot posted on the official site as if it were true established fact when it is merely speculation and wishful thinking.

One only has to take a quick look at the homepage to understand something isn't right...

- High profile case involving the loss of 5 lives including 2 6 year old boys.

- Image of Laurel and Hardy

- Easter eggs for JB

- Image of JB in a mini car re a mini quiz

- A random person who had a caravan at OCP circa mid 80's resting on a sun lounger

- A grinning Michael O'Brien bearing a "Jeremy Bamber 30 Year Injustice T-Shirt".

What's it all about?     

The only people capable of taking JB's case in a different direction are forensic scientists, investigative journalists and lawyers.  The above is likely to send these sorts of people running for the hills.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 12, 2017, 03:37:42 PM
Totally agree! There is some VERY misleading information on the OS. Take the logs for instance, from the way it is written (although it has been edited fairly recently) - most people think that the log claimed to be 'recently discovered' (although it wasn't), is the log written by Bonnett which mentions 'daughter gone berserk etc.' This log was shown to the jury. It is the West log that carries the 'recently discovered' claim. However, the translation of the claim was/is so poor, that the Daily Mirror reported the story incorrectly and had Bonnett's log as 'recently discovered'. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-missing-police-phone-239793

It should be obvious to most the statistical chances of both father and brother incorrectly stating daughter's/sister's name and age are near zero unless the family was estranged which wasn't the case.

NB was far more involved in SC's life than JB and the chances of him incorrectly stating SC's name and age isn't credible imo.  NB was 33 yoa when SC came into his care as a new born in 1957.  JB hadn't even been conceived.  Dr Ferguson refers to "Sheila Caffell" throughout his WS.  This was clearly SC's formal name and a fact I am sure NB was aware of since he was paying SC's medi bills.  If NB was asked SC's name by the police he would state Sheila Caffell not Sheila Bamber.

It is clear JB was not good with ages since he also relayed NB's incorrectly at 62 yoa when he was 61 yoa.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on April 12, 2017, 10:59:45 PM
The vast majority of "supporters" are certainly very destructive. Mike's worked his socks off for years to make Bamber look a total tw@ - then there was Gladys and his manic ravings about brute beasts and hell's cesspits, his weekly reports about his Chalfonts, and pretending to be Gav from the SAS (that still makes me laugh!) - and now to put the shit on the shortbread, there's Ermintrude Thunderthighs, a cross between Miss Babs and Tessie O'Shea, being very lazy and dodgy and turning the whole thing into even more of a complete farce.      8)><(

I suppose it's because Bamber is guilty.


FAO JaneyJ on blue.....I believed that Bamber was innocent for 25 years. There was also a brief moment, many years ago, when I thought that Lenny Henry was funny. We're all allowed to see the error of our ways!     8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on April 12, 2017, 11:32:24 PM
If by OS you mean the 'Official Site' I find it contains a lot of inaccurate, incorrect, misleading and irrelevant info.  I agree with what you say in that the CT don't engage in debate, encourage feedback or even give the impression they're open to the views of others.  A very unhealthy situation imo.

Roch is obviously a much kinder and nicer person than I am.  Saying he was disappointed in the recent vid but didn't want to appear too critical.  If I had my way I would give the lot of them the Alex Ferguson hair dryer treatment  8()(((@# 8)><(  @)(++(*

The prosecution case against JB only appears strong as the defence to date has been weak along with general support from the public eg CT, Mike et al.         

Roch is a complicated chap. I'd be madly interested in his shiny new evidence, if it was definitive, but unless he proves it he's just going to look like a "supporter" who says "I've got a secret but I'm not sharing, so bum poo willy." Which is par for the course for Bamber lovers.       8(8-))
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on April 12, 2017, 11:37:40 PM
Roch is a complicated chap. I'd be madly interested in his shiny new evidence, if it was definitive, but unless he proves it he's just going to look like a "supporter" who says "I've got a secret but I'm not sharing, so bum poo willy." Which is par for the course for Bamber lovers.       8(8-))

Roch is also a really good bloke, but not when he's Bambering. He's as funny and cool as f*ck, but he hates being wrong.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on April 12, 2017, 11:56:54 PM
And, david, NOT COOL. Stop trying to turn a tragedy into some sort of weird video game.

 %56&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 13, 2017, 02:27:09 PM
The vast majority of "supporters" are certainly very destructive. Mike's worked his socks off for years to make Bamber look a total tw@ - then there was Gladys and his manic ravings about brute beasts and hell's cesspits, his weekly reports about his Chalfonts, and pretending to be Gav from the SAS (that still makes me laugh!) - and now to put the shit on the shortbread, there's Ermintrude Thunderthighs, a cross between Miss Babs and Tessie O'Shea, being very lazy and dodgy and turning the whole thing into even more of a complete farce.      8)><(

I suppose it's because Bamber is guilty.


FAO JaneyJ on blue.....I believed that Bamber was innocent for 25 years. There was also a brief moment, many years ago, when I thought that Lenny Henry was funny. We're all allowed to see the error of our ways!     8((()*/

I'm pleasantly surprised Gladys Big Girl's Blouse hasn't resurfaced  ?{)(**

Circa 7.5 billion on the planet of which 1,025 are members of the JB forum, most of whom have never made a single post, and 2 or 3 have changed stance.   %&5%£  Mind-boggling. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 13, 2017, 02:34:48 PM
Roch is also a really good bloke, but not when he's Bambering. He's as funny and cool as f*ck, but he hates being wrong.

I must confess to once drinking a can of Special Brew whilst listening to Barry White and thinking about Roch  £4%4£
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 13, 2017, 05:52:06 PM
The problem happens more when specific individuals become prominant.

Trudies weekly vlogs were stopped as they were being laughed at. Bamber broke off contact with Mike & asked him to take down his forum. Again because Mike & other supporters are doing more harm than good & guilters are allowed to post. 

Bambergates & Martin Ogram's videos also did no one any favours.

Most supporters on forums refuse to say how Sheila committed the massacre. Which is something that should be simple. Then come up with crazy ideas such as hit man teams, Sheila putting the silencer on & RB shooting himself.

Several dedicated long term supporters have also changed stance on forums. This does not assist Bamber as it shows the prosecution case is so strong. 

If I was Bamber, I would want just want the OS up. This looks professional & no one can dispute what is written. Creating Youtube videos is also a good idea providing the comments section is disabled. Bamber & supporters behind the scenes can attempt to get as much media publicity as possible. On radio, TV & newspapers. This is something Bamber & co are good at & it will create interest from the public. 

While the above is being done, Bamber himself can reply to letters from long term supporters or new people just curious.  This will generate new support and make the long term supporters even more determined to assist, as there are no counter arguments anywhere. But it's too late. The forums are up.

Well spotted Adam  8@??)(  I hadn't noticed until you mentioned above.  How pathetic and sad every youtube vid created by CT/Trudi is disabled thus preventing comments and feedback! 

Very telling when viewers are told "Sit down and shut up"!

At least Mike's vids enable comments and feedback!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Ellie on April 20, 2017, 08:10:13 AM
I've noticed the "Blue Forum" mentioned on here as i've been reading through the threads and some of the people on there, would be a hindrance to anyone.

Some of them (Especially this Mike Tesko) just tell blatant lies.

Yet some people hang onto his every word.

It's a like a deranged cult leader and his followers.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 20, 2017, 08:47:36 AM
I've noticed the "Blue Forum" mentioned on here as i've been reading through the threads and some of the people on there, would be a hindrance to anyone.

Some of them (Especially this Mike Tesko) just tell blatant lies.

Yet some people hang onto his every word.

It's a like a deranged cult leader and his followers.

I couldn't POSSIBLY comment, Ellie 8(0(*.......................other than to say I ADORE the kitten. Best not let Puglet's pups get a sniff, though!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 20, 2017, 11:03:45 AM
I've noticed the "Blue Forum" mentioned on here as i've been reading through the threads and some of the people on there, would be a hindrance to anyone.

Some of them (Especially this Mike Tesko) just tell blatant lies.

Yet some people hang onto his every word.

It's a like a deranged cult leader and his followers.

Most take little notice of him now.  His case related posts and threads are interspersed with all manner of personal issues from claims of wrongful personal criminal convictions to family problems that make guests on Jeremy Kyle sound 'normal'!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on March 27, 2018, 07:21:22 PM
Samson I'm replying to your post here:

Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485

The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering. 

John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by.  I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with. 

It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread.  Personally I prefer the system we have here.  Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.

With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:

- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case.  I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related.  IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case.  Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet.  Or even a data management system to hand for case docs. 

- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989.  In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs.  I think most will agree he's a crank.  His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere. 

- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC.  They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well.  They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs.  They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB.  Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.   

- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT.  I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.

- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response.  I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised.  I will be making a final offer again shortly.  His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year!  Perhaps a coping mechanism. 

- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.   
   


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 27, 2018, 09:47:44 PM
Samson I'm replying to your post here:

Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485

The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering. 

John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by.  I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with. 

It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread.  Personally I prefer the system we have here.  Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.

With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:

- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case.  I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related.  IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case.  Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet.  Or even a data management system to hand for case docs. 

- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989.  In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs.  I think most will agree he's a crank.  His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere. 

- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC.  They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well.  They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs.  They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB.  Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.   

- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT.  I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.

- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response.  I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised.  I will be making a final offer again shortly.  His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year!  Perhaps a coping mechanism. 

- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.   
 

I disagree!

Jeremy Bamber is the puppet master, it is Bamber who is responsible for giving the "cold shoulder" to anyone.

He is manipulating each and everyone of the people helping him.

He knows he will never be released from prison but he's having fun pulling the strings of others and lapping up the attention, whether it be good or bad.

It is Jeremy Bamber who is causing harm to all those who he's charmed and manipulated.

What do you mean when you say "There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case?" That he doesn't have the intelligence? That he doesn't have access to the Internet? Neither did the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4.. There was no internet back then!

33 years in prison, living with criminals (with criminal minds) will have given him far more knowledge then you could probably comprehend.

33 years of having everything taken care of. No bills to pay, 3 square meals provided every day. Roof over his head. Clean sheets on his bed.

Lifers have their own cells - unless they request to share. Many lifers have curtains, rugs and comfy chairs in their cells.

How many qualifications has Bamber accrued over the past 33 years? Many prisoners serving life sentences choose to further their development. Many have numerous degrees. Ever wondered why Bamber hasn't bothered?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 27, 2018, 11:20:37 PM
Samson I'm replying to your post here:

Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485

The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering. 

John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by.  I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with. 

It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread.  Personally I prefer the system we have here.  Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.

With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:

- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case.  I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related.  IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case.  Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet.  Or even a data management system to hand for case docs. 

- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989.  In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs.  I think most will agree he's a crank.  His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere

- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC.  They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well.  They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs.  They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB.  Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.   

- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT.  I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.

- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response.  I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised.  I will be making a final offer again shortly.  His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year!  Perhaps a coping mechanism. 

- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.   
 

Mike T has stated publicly he (Mike) has a personality disorder.

I do not think Jeremy Bamber would have had the support he once had if it weren't for Mike T. I don't think the Campaign Team would have been in existence if Mike T hadn't done what he had.

Didn't Bamber once say he'd share money with Mike? I think Mike got involved for monetary gain and because of his grudge against the criminal justice system that he says stitched him up.

I find Bambers behaviour and the claims he's made as crazy as the ones made by Mike; especially his claims of innocence. Essex police were conned by him for a short time but not for long.

Bamber grew his hair in prison then cut off the pony tail and gave it to AA and, according to AA, asked her to look after it for him? Doesn't that seem crazy or at least strike you as odd behaviour? I may have thought differently if he'd donated it to make wigs. What use will his old hair be to anyone?
 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on March 28, 2018, 02:19:45 AM
- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT.  I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.

Does he have an appointed firm of solicitors to assist him with another application to the CCRC? If so, that will be why Bamber or those around him don't want to deal with others.  For perfectly understandable reasons, his solicitors will not allow him to accept input or expertise from anybody else while they are instructed.  If he were to start taking advice from other lawyers or experts appointed otherwise than through his own solicitors, those solicitors might then consider themselves compromised or professionally embarrassed and might ask to terminate their relationship with him.

- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response.  I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised.  I will be making a final offer again shortly.

That's strange, that he would not take up your offer.  It could be that he doesn't want you to arrange the tests as he wants control of the choice of experts.  Maybe let him and his lawyers decide on the experts to be appointed and you offer to contribute to the cost, if that's what you want to do?

- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.   

Especially if he did it and he has had to maintain a front of denial all this time. 

There is a secondary question in all this of whether he should be allowed to progress through the prison system anyway, with a view to eventual release or at least imprisonment in the Open Estate.  I do think whole life orders are wrong.  Although his crime - if he did it - was absolutely horrific, I would hope that as he enters old age he will at least be allowed to serve his time in a lower security environment (subject to safety considerations), with maybe eligibility for the temporary home release scheme.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 28, 2018, 10:16:23 AM
Samson I'm replying to your post here:

Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485

The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering. 

John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by.  I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with. 

It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread.  Personally I prefer the system we have here.  Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.

With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:

- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case.  I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related.  IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case.  Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet.  Or even a data management system to hand for case docs. 

- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989.  In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs.  I think most will agree he's a crank.  His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere. 

- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC.  They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well.  They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs.  They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB.  Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.   

- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT.  I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.

- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response.  I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised.  I will be making a final offer again shortly.  His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year!  Perhaps a coping mechanism. 

- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.   
 

He doesn't have an understanding of his case due to the wealth of lies he's told. He's read ALL his case papers with a fine tooth comb. He's publicly stated that numerous times - or words to that effect.

He cannot remember what's he's said to you and what he's said to others. Hence why he's kicked many people to the kerb. He's manipulated those he has close to him now in order to attempt to show they are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Why are you making excuses for him? Do you think his legal teams have the "data management" systems in place to which you refer and all the text books to hand at any given moment?

You've stated Bamber often doesn't reply to you straight away; so he's been given the time to go and look through his paperwork or recall the material you've written to him about? Lazy behaviour IMO. He cannot be bothered, is what this suggests to me.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 28, 2018, 10:28:27 AM
Samson I'm replying to your post here:

Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485

The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering. 

John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by.  I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with. 

It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread.  Personally I prefer the system we have here.  Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.

With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:

- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case.  I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related.  IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case.  Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet.  Or even a data management system to hand for case docs. 

- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989.  In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs.  I think most will agree he's a crank.  His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere. 

- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC.  They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well.  They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs.  They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB.  Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.   

- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT.  I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.

- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response.  I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised.  I will be making a final offer again shortly.  His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year!  Perhaps a coping mechanism. 

- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.   
 

But ultimately who is at fault? Do you think Bamber is unaware of what his campaign team do? If Bamber had been bothered by the publicity he received in relation to the bake off and the graveside rants, wouldn't you have expected him to address this publicly in a blog or something? He simply doesn't care!  Just as he simply doesn't care if his supporters are helpful, harmful or a hindrance
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on March 28, 2018, 10:55:08 AM
Supporters generally cause more harm than good.

Bamber asked Mike to close down his forum & Trudie's weekly vlogs were stopped undoubtedly on Bamber's request.

David attempted to become part of Bamber's circle. But his 'Forensic Evidence Breakthrough' was binned & he will be the first to admit he has nothing else.

Bamber did contact Bob Woffinden, Andrew Hunter & agreed to be interviewed by Wilkes & CAL. He may have also contacted Ian Allison. These were MP's, journalists and authors.

He will have regular contact with his lawyers and maybe one or two supporters who organise the OS. It's doubtful he's met the non lawyers. Even Trudie & Mat have just commented that he sounds nice on the phone.

People that write to him, he will write back to attempt to try to ensure support, as he did with David.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 28, 2018, 11:10:33 AM
Supporters generally cause more harm than good.

Bamber asked Mike to close down his forum & Trudie's weekly vlogs were stopped undoubtedly on Bamber's request.

David attempted to become part of Bamber's circle. But his 'Forensic Evidence Breakthrough' was binned & he will be the first to admit he has nothing else.

Bamber did contact Bob Woffinden, Andrew Hunter & agreed to be interviewed by Wilkes & CAL. He may have also contacted Ian Allison. These were MP's, journalists and authors.

He will have regular contact with his lawyers and maybe one or two supporters who organise the OS. It's doubtful he's met the non lawyers. Even Trudie & Mat have just commented that he sounds nice on the phone.

People that write to him, he will write back to attempt to try to ensure support, as he did with David.

Giovanni de Stefano was said to be without a conscience by one of the judges who sentenced him.  My interpretation of that and based on what I've read of him - he's also a pyschopath. He harmed and hindered Bambers reputation further.

I'd like to know if Bamber ever attempted to sue De Stefano when he found out he'd been conned by him  8(0(*

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4085.0

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21969624

Mike Tesco's shameful BS  http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4615.0.html

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/john-gilligans-conman-lawyer-battle-6009172

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/98663/I-would-defend-Satan-on-his-day-in-court

He claimed in 2009 he would defend satan!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on March 28, 2018, 11:21:57 AM
Samson I'm replying to your post here:

Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485

The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering. 

John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by.  I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with. 

It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread.  Personally I prefer the system we have here.  Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.

With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:

- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case.  I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related.  IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case.  Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet.  Or even a data management system to hand for case docs. 

- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989.  In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs.  I think most will agree he's a crank.  His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere. 

- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC.  They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well.  They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs.  They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB.  Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.   

- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT.  I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.

- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response. I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised.  I will be making a final offer again shortly.  His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year!  Perhaps a coping mechanism. 

- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.   
 

And that's EXACTLY what he does! Thank you Holly! He wont agree to the tests unless he can control what tests are carried ut.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 28, 2018, 02:37:17 PM
And let's not forget, journalists like Eric Allison need to write stories to make money - help, hinder or harm
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on March 28, 2018, 03:50:33 PM
And that's EXACTLY what he does! Thank you Holly! He wont agree to the tests unless he can control what tests are carried ut.

And he's entirely right to do so, in fairness.  It's normal that the defence would want complete control of their own tests.  If I were Bamber, I would insist on the same or not have the tests done.  There is nothing improper in this, and any experts appointed have an overriding duty to the court. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on March 28, 2018, 06:14:17 PM
And he's entirely right to do so, in fairness.  It's normal that the defence would want complete control of their own tests.  If I were Bamber, I would insist on the same or not have the tests done.  There is nothing improper in this, and any experts appointed have an overriding duty to the court.

Is there a difference between control and complete control?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on March 28, 2018, 07:44:34 PM
And he's entirely right to do so, in fairness.  It's normal that the defence would want complete control of their own tests.  If I were Bamber, I would insist on the same or not have the tests done.  There is nothing improper in this, and any experts appointed have an overriding duty to the court.

Why? If you have nothing to hide? However, my point wasn't just in relation to forensic tests. Jeremy doesn't answer questions he doesn't like - THAT was my point.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 29, 2018, 11:52:08 AM
Why? If you have nothing to hide? However, my point wasn't just in relation to forensic tests. Jeremy doesn't answer questions he doesn't like - THAT was my point.


Deceptive people often claim lack of memory as a way to cover the truth. This defense sets two traps for dissemblers:

Detecting deception using verbal cues remains a difficult task. The best method to predict deception compares what a person says against external evidence or  known truth. At best, certain statements can indicate a higher probability of deception, but there's no one verbal cue that accurately predicts deception.

However, certain words or groups of words can signal an area in an utterance wherein deception is likely to occur. If the conversation is important, knowing where potential deception resides can provide a distinct advantage, in business or social interactions.

"First, in order to not remember what you did, you must first have an extant memory of the event. By definition, to not remember something you must have initially stored the information in your memory. The lack of memory indicates that the memory is stored in the brain but that the person cannot retrieve it. Truthful people typically respond, “I don’t know.” Lack of memory suggests the person cannot retrieve a memory and, therefore, does not know what happened. Honest people strive to do anything they can to retrieve the memory of an event. Deceptive people do not want to reveal remembered information for fear of revealing the truth.

The second trap is similar. A person cannot say, “I don’t remember doing that,” unless the person remembers what he or she actually did. The word “that” suggests the person did not remember doing a specific set of actions. In order to say, “I didn’t do that,” the person has to know what he or she did do. Logically, how can a person say he or she does not remember doing something when they have no memory of the event? The word “that” suggests memory of an event.

The questioner’s response to this gambit should be, “What do you remember doing?” Honest people will tell you what they remember doing, to support their alibi. Dishonest people usually cling to the lack of memory by saying, “I don’t know what I did.” Here the questioner's response should be, “If you don’t know what you did, it is possible that you did exactly what I described.” Deceptive people make no attempt to retrieve a memory of an action for fear of revealing the truth.

The key to detecting deception is to listen carefully to what someone tells you. Words do not simply fall from people’s mouths. They have meaning and are a direct representation of what a person is thinking: Words can, and do, reveal deception. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201611/5-things-people-commonly-say-when-theyre-lying
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on March 31, 2018, 11:40:26 AM
And he's entirely right to do so, in fairness.  It's normal that the defence would want complete control of their own tests.  If I were Bamber, I would insist on the same or not have the tests done.  There is nothing improper in this, and any experts appointed have an overriding duty to the court.

Have you got anything to back up your various assertions above? 

As I see it post trial the convicted are pretty much up a creek without a paddle.  The appeals process can swing into action as it did for JB in 1989.  If this fails thereafter the defendant is dependent on finding others to do his/her bidding.  In JB's case he has no family support, income (to speak of) or capital.  He's reliant on supporters to assist in a variety of ways eg case research, funding tests, emotional support and experts/lawyers to act pro bono or to be paid by supporters as until such time his case is referred back to CoA his case isn't eligible for any funding. 

I read an article recently by Michael Mansfield QC where he said the problem with looking at cases involving a potential MoJ is that it takes a lawyer 6 months to review the case.  That's a lot of hours and a lot of dosh!

If programme makers want to instruct their own experts then what are JB's defence going to do about this?  We have already seen with the 'Killing Mum and Dad' docu/drama aired by Sky tv that JB lost his legal battle against expert opinion have we not? 

Author Roger Wilkes funded some tests on JB's behalf in exchange for JB's input to RW's book.  This had nothing to do with JB's defence.  The test results were sent to the publishers.

If I want to hand over forensic test results that I may have undertaken in the UK or elsewhere to a programme maker or any media outlet then there's nothing legally preventing me from doing so is there? 

As I far as I can see experts have an overriding duty to adhere to their professional code of conduct and thereafter to those instructing them and funding their expertise. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 31, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
Have you got anything to back up your various assertions above? 

As I see it post trial the convicted are pretty much up a creek without a paddle.  The appeals process can swing into action as it did for JB in 1989.  If this fails thereafter the defendant is dependent on finding others to do his/her bidding.  In JB's case he has no family support, income (to speak of) or capital.  He's reliant on supporters to assist in a variety of ways eg case research, funding tests, emotional support and experts/lawyers to act pro bono or to be paid by supporters as until such time his case is referred back to CoA his case isn't eligible for any funding. 

I read an article recently by Michael Mansfield QC where he said the problem with looking at cases involving a potential MoJ is that it takes a lawyer 6 months to review the case.  That's a lot of hours and a lot of dosh!

If programme makers want to instruct their own experts then what are JB's defence going to do about this?  We have already seen with the 'Killing Mum and Dad' docu/drama aired by Sky tv that JB lost his legal battle against expert opinion have we not? 

Author Roger Wilkes funded some tests on JB's behalf in exchange for JB's input to RW's book.  This had nothing to do with JB's defence.  The test results were sent to the publishers.

If I want to hand over forensic test results that I may have undertaken in the UK or elsewhere to a programme maker or any media outlet then there's nothing legally preventing me from doing so is there? 

As I far as I can see experts have an overriding duty to adhere to their professional code of conduct and thereafter to those instructing them and funding their expertise.

But Holly if you refer back to one of Bambers old blogs, he states he didn't face the problems other prisoners had in relation to his own investigations in his case. He's never been bitter, he's said, and he talks like he's found prison a breeze all thanks to what his parents taught him when he was younger. Re read his blogs.

Plus, lawyers don't usually work on one case at a time and have other commitments to consider. Bamber's not had the worries of paying bills, putting food on the table, keeping a roof over his head etc, so he hasn't had to deal with that emotional burden. And many prisoners go on to form relationships with other inmates - especially those serving long sentences.  http://theconversation.com/prisoners-have-sex-so-let-them-have-condoms-14107

"The term heteroflexible has been used by sexual health workers to describe the behaviour of men
in prison who identify as heterosexual but are flexible about having sex with men while in prison. There is anecdotal evidence but little data and a lack of research on the impact of prison on sexual behaviour or sexual orientation.
https://howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/consensual_sex_in_prison.pdf

And let us not forget, some prisoners are willing to take payment for sex.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 31, 2018, 12:03:44 PM
Just an observation but LM's posts on blue appear more reasoned and objebtive on blue, than they were here. Wonder why? Anyone else notice that?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on March 31, 2018, 12:19:07 PM
Just an observation but LM's posts on blue appear more reasoned and objebtive on blue, than they were here. Wonder why? Anyone else notice that?

I think perhaps he is playing devil's advocate after all. One thing though, Nevil couldn't have been in front of the door. He ended up in front of the aga which protrudes from the wall to allow for the chimney. It's impossible for him to have been shunted around a corner in order to finish up in the position depicted in the CS photos.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on March 31, 2018, 12:23:14 PM
I think perhaps he is playing devil's advocate after all. One thing though, Nevil couldn't have been in front of the door. He ended up in front of the aga which protrudes from the wall to allow for the chimney. It's impossible for him to have been shunted around a corner in order to finish up in the position depicted in the CS photos.

 8((()*/

Interesting though how their posts here were emotive at times, yet not as I can see, displayed over there?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on March 31, 2018, 03:56:02 PM
Does he have an appointed firm of solicitors to assist him with another application to the CCRC? If so, that will be why Bamber or those around him don't want to deal with others.  For perfectly understandable reasons, his solicitors will not allow him to accept input or expertise from anybody else while they are instructed.  If he were to start taking advice from other lawyers or experts appointed otherwise than through his own solicitors, those solicitors might then consider themselves compromised or professionally embarrassed and might ask to terminate their relationship with him.

I've no idea if JB currently has legal representation in place. 

Again do you have anything to back up your assertions?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454800#msg454800

If JB has legal representation how do we know if they're any good?  Why not open it up?  Competition can be a force for good resulting in players upping their game?

That's strange, that he would not take up your offer.  It could be that he doesn't want you to arrange the tests as he wants control of the choice of experts.  Maybe let him and his lawyers decide on the experts to be appointed and you offer to contribute to the cost, if that's what you want to do?

What tools does JB have at his disposal to make such decisions?  I'm not impressed by the lawyers involved historically.  Too many bad decisions, mistakes and oversights IMO.  You appear to hold lawyers in high esteem?  Lawyers are lawyers.  They are not expert witnesses.  I'm neither a lawyer or an expert witness and it isn't necessary to be either to assist JB.  Anyone with the ability to analyse, communicate, critically evaluate and carry out research can assist JB if they feel his case is worthy of such.  There's nothing to prevent anyone funding tests and using the info however they wish is there? 

Especially if he did it and he has had to maintain a front of denial all this time. 

There is a secondary question in all this of whether he should be allowed to progress through the prison system anyway, with a view to eventual release or at least imprisonment in the Open Estate.  I do think whole life orders are wrong.  Although his crime - if he did it - was absolutely horrific, I would hope that as he enters old age he will at least be allowed to serve his time in a lower security environment (subject to safety considerations), with maybe eligibility for the temporary home release scheme.

My understanding is that JB is one of the few prisoners in UK on a whole life tariff where life means life.  If the convictions are not quashed I doubt his prison category will ever be downgraded other than if his health and mobility required a different environment.  Think his conviction will be quashed by CoA though. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 02, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
The problem is supporters come up with impossible theories but then stonewall questions about it.

David and Buddy believe several relatives fabricated the silencer without police assistance. By scrapping period blood off wet underwear. But then refuse to say how the relatives knew essential facts in order to do this -

Did Sheila receive contact shots ?

Who else received contact shots ?

What weapon did Sheila use ?

How long were Sheila's arms ?

What is back splatter ?

Were the shots into Sheila likely to cause back splatter ?

Did the rifle barrel already have back splatter inside ?

Did the kitchen crime scene photos show the aga ?

How is it possible to convincingly scratch the aga ?

What other evidence showed Sheila was certainly the killer. At the time Taff Jones was rejecting the relatives views ?

Did the police already have a silencer with evidence on ?

How can blood be falsely inserted into a silencer to cause the back splatter effect ?

Had the police already included the found bloodless silencer in their inventory ?

Would this evidence, if accepted be sufficient  to get a conviction ?

Were the police still investigating the case and finding evidence incriminating Bamber ?

How many years in prison would they get if found to be fabricating the silencer ? 

--------------

David and Buddy are being hugely optimistic. Expecting the relatives to be as innovative, efficient, brave,  clever, determined & callous enough to successfully attempt this in such a short time scale.  Without having the above essential information. But neither of them will budge on the relatives doing this.

This highlights why Bamber wanted the Blue forum shut down. The crazy theories are more of a hinderence than help to him. Even Trudies vlogs were stopped which were a lot more mild.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 11:46:59 AM
This highlights why Bamber wanted the Blue forum shut down. The crazy theories are more of a hinderence than help to him. Even Trudies vlogs were stopped which were a lot more mild.

I have to say, one or two people over on that 'blue' forum are off their heads.  So much so, I'm starting to wonder if they've been tapping Bamber for illicit substances.

On a serious note, Bamber does need to be realistic in the arguments he puts forward.  And, as I've tried to explain to the people on 'blue', the arguments put forward to the CCRC (and, by extension, to the appellate judges), have to challenge his murder conviction, not exercise vendettas.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 12:00:51 PM
Again do you have anything to back up your assertions?

Yes.  I'm a self-educated man, but I am very knowledgeable about the law - more so than some practising solicitors.  In fact, some weeks ago, I was explaining the intricacies of trust law to a solicitor who specialises in private client work, which may be more a commentary on standards in that profession than my cognitive abilities.  Nevertheless, I know things.  I read books.  I have a lot of experience of criminal law and practice and the ways of the courts, including how evidence is collected, the different types of evidence, how witnesses are adduced, etc..  And I've also spent a lot of time in the sort of place where you have time to read lots of books, especially law-related books, among other materials.

If you think I'm wrong (and I may be, I'm not omniscient and don't pretend to be), then we can either leave it or you can consult a practising solicitor, who - I believe - may well confirm that when a defendant or appellant needs to obtain expert evidence, he will (as a rule, exceptions allowing) seek to control the selection of expert(s), the terms of reference and sometimes (depending on the field or discipline involved), the methodology and (if applicable) technology used.  The point is that that is perfectly normal and there is nothing suspicious about it, and any defendant or appellant who is not allowed this freedom by a would-be benefactor may well turn down that help on the basis that the outcome of an undirected expert may be unhelpful or even prejudicial.  The defendant or appellant in any criminal case is perfectly entitled to take this view, there is nothing wrong with it - to the contrary, it would be strange otherwise.  However, at all times, the first duty of the expert is to the court and nothing changes that. 

I accept that sometimes would-be appellants seeking to overturn wrongful convictions avail themselves of the help of third parties who direct the expert evidence themselves, without input from the appellant, but that doesn't change what I have said, which is that a directed expert is the normal practice, provided that at all times the expert retains his autonomy and independence as an expert and fulfils his overriding duty to justice. 

In other words, and to put it plainly - he must follow the instructions of the defendant in terms of what he is looking for and (sometimes, if the field or discipline of the expert makes this appropriate) how and in what manner he looks for it, but he can't fabricate evidence or findings, or produce misleading findings or in any way lie, exaggerate or mislead the court about material matters.  Nor can he overstep his conclusions without making it clear that he is only proffering an opinion.  Nor should be misrepresent his expertise.

I hope that explains it fully.


 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 12:39:25 PM
On a serious note, Bamber does need to be realistic in the arguments he puts forward.  And, as I've tried to explain to the people on 'blue', the arguments put forward to the CCRC (and, by extension, to the appellate judges), have to challenge his murder conviction, not exercise vendettas.

Bambers claimed he wants a retrial because he wants ALL the evidence to come out. Personally I cannot ever see his case getting back to the COA, but if he were to ever have a re-trial I'd like to see a similar argument to that put forward at Barry George's re-trial.

"George's defence team argued in court that he lacked the capability to carry out the meticulously-planned execution-style killing.
Scans of his brain showed "severely abnormal" results and some tests placed him in the lowest 1% of the population for his memory and planning abilities."

He's claimed for 33 years now he's not a psychopath. I bet his brain scans would prove otherwise.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 12:57:29 PM
Bambers claimed he wants a retrial because he wants ALL the evidence to come out. Personally I cannot ever see his case getting back to the COA, but if he were to ever have a re-trial I'd like to see a similar argument to that put forward at Barry George's re-trial.

"George's defence team argued in court that he lacked the capability to carry out the meticulously-planned execution-style killing.
Scans of his brain showed "severely abnormal" results and some tests placed him in the lowest 1% of the population for his memory and planning abilities."

He's claimed for 33 years now he's not a psychopath. I bet his brain scans would prove otherwise.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but if we assume that Bamber did this and if we also assume that the Crown's case theory is - more or less - correct, then Bamber's crime demonstrates sophisticated criminal planning abilities.  He fabricated a telephone call from Nevill.  He concealed the moderator in the gun cupboard to exclude that evidence.  He staged the crime scene to portray a murder-suicide.  He knew where everybody slept and presumably waited until the early hours to be certain Nevill was in bed (remember, it was a summer night), possibly so that he could manufacture a kill series that would assist his inheritance prospects.  He play-acted in front of the police and at the funeral in front of his extended family and the public (in effect, mocking poor Colin Caffell - arguably the biggest surviving victim of all). Etc., etc.  You know this case better than me: you'll come up with points of your own, I'm sure.

You follow my point, I assume.  This is cold, cold stuff.  There is simply no prospect of the Court of Appeal, or indeed the Parole Board, or the Secretary of State for Justice, accepting a defence, appeal or argument that this wasn't carefully planned and that Bamber was somehow mentally or psychologically debilitated.  That train has left the station.

Personally, I take a very liberal attitude to criminal justice - but I do favour hanging and I think Bamber should have been hung after the failure of his first appeal.  Which, by the way, is not to say I think he did it: I take no view on that one way or the other.  I simply can't.  I wasn't there.  But what I do think is, if you're convicted for five murders, including two kids, you're for the rope.

I do not accept he is a psychopath.  I don't believe 'psychopaths' exist.  I think the whole thesis of psychopathy is pseudo-science and runs dangerously close to absolving criminals of responsibility for their wrong-doing.  In that regard, you may wish to note that psychopathy is not, per se, recognised as a mental illness (though I accept there are analogous personality disorders). 

I do accept that, regardless of his guilt or innocence, Jeremy Bamber has something seriously wrong with him in the upstairs department.  Despite my (justifiable) scorn for the former Miss Julie Mugford and her joke Toytown evidence, I happen to think she was probably telling the truth about what he told her - if so, it might be as well that Jeremy has spent his life in confinement.  Any man who has conversations like that with his girlfriend has a screw loose. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
Yes.  I'm a self-educated man, but I am very knowledgeable about the law - more so than some practising solicitors.  In fact, some weeks ago, I was explaining the intricacies of trust law to a solicitor who specialises in private client work, which may be more a commentary on standards in that profession than my cognitive abilities.  Nevertheless, I know things.  I read books.  I have a lot of experience of criminal law and practice and the ways of the courts, including how evidence is collected, the different types of evidence, how witnesses are adduced, etc..  And I've also spent a lot of time in the sort of place where you have time to read lots of books, especially law-related books, among other materials.

If you think I'm wrong (and I may be, I'm not omniscient and don't pretend to be), then we can either leave it or you can consult a practising solicitor, who - I believe - may well confirm that when a defendant or appellant needs to obtain expert evidence, he will (as a rule, exceptions allowing) seek to control the selection of expert(s), the terms of reference and sometimes (depending on the field or discipline involved), the methodology and (if applicable) technology used.  The point is that that is perfectly normal and there is nothing suspicious about it, and any defendant or appellant who is not allowed this freedom by a would-be benefactor may well turn down that help on the basis that the outcome of an undirected expert may be unhelpful or even prejudicial.  The defendant or appellant in any criminal case is perfectly entitled to take this view, there is nothing wrong with it - to the contrary, it would be strange otherwise.  However, at all times, the first duty of the expert is to the court and nothing changes that. 

I accept that sometimes would-be appellants seeking to overturn wrongful convictions avail themselves of the help of third parties who direct the expert evidence themselves, without input from the appellant, but that doesn't change what I have said, which is that a directed expert is the normal practice, provided that at all times the expert retains his autonomy and independence as an expert and fulfils his overriding duty to justice. 

In other words, and to put it plainly - he must follow the instructions of the defendant in terms of what he is looking for and (sometimes, if the field or discipline of the expert makes this appropriate) how and in what manner he looks for it, but he can't fabricate evidence or findings, or produce misleading findings or in any way lie, exaggerate or mislead the court about material matters.  Nor can he overstep his conclusions without making it clear that he is only proffering an opinion.  Nor should be misrepresent his expertise.

I hope that explains it fully.


 

Lol - "smug" & " insufferable" springs to mind  8(0(*

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but if we assume that Bamber did this and if we also assume that the Crown's case theory is - more or less - correct, then Bamber's crime demonstrates sophisticated criminal planning abilities.  He fabricated a telephone call from Nevill.  He concealed the moderator in the gun cupboard to exclude that evidence.  He staged the crime scene to portray a murder-suicide.  He knew where everybody slept and presumably waited until the early hours to be certain Nevill was in bed (remember, it was a summer night), possibly so that he could manufacture a kill series that would assist his inheritance prospects.  He play-acted in front of the police and at the funeral in front of his extended family and the public (in effect, mocking poor Colin Caffell - arguably the biggest surviving victim of all). Etc., etc.  You know this case better than me: you'll come up with points of your own, I'm sure.

You follow my point, I assume.  This is cold, cold stuff.  There is simply no prospect of the Court of Appeal, or indeed the Parole Board, or the Secretary of State for Justice, accepting a defence, appeal or argument that this wasn't carefully planned and that Bamber was somehow mentally or psychologically debilitated.  That train has left the station.

Personally, I take a very liberal attitude to criminal justice - but I do favour hanging and I think Bamber should have been hung after the failure of his first appeal.  Which, by the way, is not to say I think he did it: I take no view on that one way or the other.  I simply can't.  I wasn't there.  But what I do think is, if you're convicted for five murders, including two kids, you're for the rope.

I do not accept he is a psychopath.  I don't believe 'psychopaths' exist.  I think the whole thesis of psychopathy is pseudo-science and runs dangerously close to absolving criminals of responsibility for their wrong-doing.  In that regard, you may wish to note that psychopathy is not, per se, recognised as a mental illness (though I accept there are analogous personality disorders). 

I do accept that, regardless of his guilt or innocence, Jeremy Bamber has something seriously wrong with him in the upstairs department.  Despite my (justifiable) scorn for the former Miss Julie Mugford and her joke Toytown evidence, I happen to think she was probably telling the truth about what he told her - if so, it might be as well that Jeremy has spent his life in confinement.  Any man who has conversations like that with his girlfriend has a screw loose.

Perhaps I wrongly assumed you were aware of my past link to Simon Hall?

Not dissimilar to Bamber he maintained innocence and launched a "high profile" public campaign. The CCRC referred his case back to the COA in 2010. His conviction was upheld in early 2011. He confessed his guilt in 2013 and hung himself in 2014.

I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding psychopathy now but hold my hands up to being naive back then; especially in relation to cluster b personality types.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials and how a hyperthetically future re- trial may play out.

Btw I've found your posts a breath of fresh air both here and on blue, all things considered. Your posts appear to have garnered a lot of interest. You'll have most certainly rattled Bamber cage anyway  8((()*/

Putting what you see as my "anti-Bamber bias" aside and looking at this case from a pro Bamber point of view, what do you have to say to him and his supporters (and the supposed fence sitters) in relation to the way in which Bamber has played out his public campaign these past 3 decades?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 01:38:51 PM
Lol - "smug" & " insufferable" springs to mind  8(0(*

Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post.  This is a decontextualised medium.  That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post?  What's the relevance of it?  This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour.  She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.

I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted.  I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people.  This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre.  She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths.  She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers. 

To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner.  My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree.  Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.

Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 01:54:25 PM
Perhaps I wrongly assumed you were aware of my past link to Simon Hall?

Not dissimilar to Bamber he maintained innocence and launched a "high profile" public campaign. The CCRC referred his case back to the COA in 2010. His conviction was upheld in early 2011. He confessed his guilt in 2013 and hung himself in 2014.

I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding psychopathy now but hold my hands up to being naive back then; especially in relation to cluster b personality types.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials.

Btw I've found your posts a breath of fresh air both here and on blue, all things considered. Your posts appear to have garnered a lot of interest. You'll have most certainly rattled Bamber cage anyway  8((()*/

I have no current interest in Simon Hall, whoever he is.  My interest is in Jeremy Bamber's case.  That's what this Forum is for.  I welcome discussion of analogous cases, but I don't see how your summary helps me understand the Bamber case.

Guilty people do maintain their innocence.  We know this.  We know that that might be the case with Jeremy Bamber.  For one thing, if he confessed he would be immediately in danger among Category A prisoners as an admitted double child killer.  So he has an incentive to lie, the lies being part of a self-preservation strategem.  I acknowledge and accept this possibility.  But none of us need to be told this.  We know. 

Simon Hall's case tells me nothing about whether Jeremy Bamber is falsely protesting his innocence.  Simon Hall is Simon Hall. Jeremy Bamber is Jeremy Bamber.  There may be things to learn from the Simon Hall case - legal reasoning often is based on analogies - but what Simon Hall did or didn't do is no proof or indication of anything about Jeremy Bamber.

Turning to psychopathy, I treat it as a thesis only and any assertion of psychopathy is nothing more than a thesis statement and an allegation, not a diagnosis.  That said, let me be clear that I am not an expert in psychology or psychiatry.  I comment as a layman entirely - and I may well be wrong, but if I am wrong, then I'm in very good company, stellar company in fact.

I wouldn't say that I am 'naive' about human nature.  I have encountered lots of different types of people, including people who would be broadly considered sociopaths (a different thing to a 'psychopath').  I have lived in and among such people, shared cells with them in the toughest prisons - including multiple murderers (including a man who was once on Britain's equivalent of death row), including sadistic drug lords and terrorists, etc., and I was once charged with terrorist offences myself as well as other things.  I am not a babe in the wood walking round in a rosy daze, innocently oblivious to human nature.

I do accept that there are people who have a diminished conscience.  What I don't accept is psychopathy as anything more than a tenuous academic thesis.  It so happens that neither does mainstream psychiatry, which is quite telling given that there would be every incentive for the pharmaceutical industry to see a large sub-set of the population diagnosed as psychopaths.  Which is not, I accept, proof of anything, and as I have already observed, there are recognised personality disorders that are analogous to psychopathy.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 01:56:40 PM
Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post.  This is a decontextualised medium.  That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post?  What's the relevance of it?  This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour.  She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.

I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted.  I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people.  This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre.  She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths.  She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers. 

To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner.  My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree.  Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.

Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.

Was this done privately or on the board, I must have missed it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 02:01:28 PM
I have no current interest in Simon Hall, whoever he is.  My interest is in Jeremy Bamber's case.  That's what this Forum is for.  I welcome discussion of analogous cases, but I don't see how your summary helps me understand the Bamber case.

Guilty people do maintain their innocence.  We know this.  We know that that might be the case with Jeremy Bamber.  For one thing, if he confessed he would be immediately in danger among Category A prisoners as an admitted double child killer.  So he has an incentive to lie, the lies being part of a self-preservation strategem.  I acknowledge and accept this possibility.  But none of us need to be told this.  We know. 

Simon Hall's case tells me nothing about whether Jeremy Bamber is falsely protesting his innocence.  Simon Hall is Simon Hall. Jeremy Bamber is Jeremy Bamber.  There may be things to learn from the Simon Hall case - legal reasoning often is based on analogies - but what Simon Hall did or didn't do is no proof or indication of anything about Jeremy Bamber.

Turning to psychopathy, I treat it as a thesis only and any assertion of psychopathy is nothing more than a thesis statement and an allegation, not a diagnosis.  That said, let me be clear that I am not an expert in psychology or psychiatry.  I comment as a layman entirely - and I may well be wrong, but if I am wrong, then I'm in very good company, stellar company in fact.

I wouldn't say that I am 'naive' about human nature.  I have encountered lots of different types of people, including people who would be broadly considered sociopaths (a different thing to a psychopath).  I have lived in and among such people, shared cells with them in the toughest prisons - including multiple murderers (including a man who was once on Britain's equivalent of death row), including sadistic drug lords and terrorists, etc., and I was once charged with terrorist offences myself as well as other things.  I am not a babe in the wood walking round in a rosy daze, innocently oblivious to human nature.

I do accept that there are people who have a diminished conscience.  What I don't accept is psychopathy as anything more than a tenuous academic thesis.  It so happens that neither does mainstream psychiatry, which is quite telling given that there would be every incentive for the pharmaceutical industry to diagnose a large sub-set of the population as psychopaths.  Which is not, I accept, proof of anything, and as I have already observed, there are recognised personality disorders that are analogous to psychopathy.

My question was

"I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials."

And if you recall I'd used the Barry George re-trial as an example?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454996#msg454996

Sorry if I touched a nerve..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 02:07:08 PM
Was this done privately or on the board, I must have missed it.

See above.  If Holly disagrees with me, or receives different advice, or has further questions, I am sure she will return to explain.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 02:09:26 PM
See above.  If Holly disagrees with me, or receives different advice, or has further questions, I am sure she will return to explain.

I've seen above http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454287#msg454287 unless you are going to say I haven't gone far enough back?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 02:20:32 PM
My question was

"I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials."

And if you recall I'd used the Barry George re-trial as an example?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454996#msg454996

Sorry if I touched a nerve..

I will be pleased to be corrected on this point, but if I understand rightly, there was no suggestion that Barry George had any sort of personality disorder and there is no known diagnosis of such in his case.

I regard neuroscience (and cognitive science, for what matter), which I believe is the root field for brain scan evidence, as a pseudoscience and not a rigorous discipline.  However in the context of criminal trials, the usefulness of such evidence is going to depend on what is being asserted by the party relying on the evidence (and to an extent, also depends on which party instructed the expert and why).  It's a very broad question.  I note that neuroscience is not neurology and, if I understand correctly, brain scan experts tend to be qualified in the former field rather than the latter. 

However, I note, c.f. to my own point, that the expert who gave evidence in your example, the Barry George case, was in fact a neuropsychiatrist and therefore presumably a registered medical doctor.

I don't see the relevance of this to Jeremy Bamber's case as it stands today.  If he confesses, the facts speak for themselves and are considered well-proved.  If he continues to assert his innocence, I very much doubt he will be able to argue that he lacked the planning capacity to carry out such a scheme as that's not in itself exculpatory in the context of the evidence in this case.  Each case has to be looked at as fact-specific.  I'm not very familiar with the Barry George case, but I imagine one reason his lawyers made the brain scan argument is that there was common ground between the Crown and the appellant about the facts of the case, the only dispute being over who did it.  That's won't be the case in Jeremy Bamber's appeal.

The bottom line is that appeal evidence has to undermine the murder conviction, not prove points in isolation or pursue vendettas.  Everybody looking at this case would do well to remember that basic point.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 02:23:16 PM
I've seen above http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454287#msg454287 unless you are going to say I haven't gone far enough back?

Never mind, it doesn't matter now.  Holly will pick it up if she needs to.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 02:28:06 PM
I will be pleased to be corrected on this point, but if I understand rightly, there was no suggestion that Barry George had any sort of personality disorder and there is no known diagnosis of such in his case.

I regard neuroscience (and cognitive science, for what matter), which I believe is the root field for brain scan evidence, as a pseudoscience and not a rigorous discipline.  However in the context of criminal trials, the usefulness of such evidence is going to depend on what is being asserted by the party relying on the evidence (and to an extent, also depends on which party instructed the expert and why).  It's a very broad question.  I note that neuroscience is not neurology and, if I understand correctly, brain scan experts tend to be qualified in the former field rather than the latter. 

However, I note, c.f. to my own point, that the expert who gave evidence in your example, the Barry George case, was in fact a neuropsychiatrist and therefore presumably a registered medical doctor.

I don't see the relevance of this to Jeremy Bamber's case as it stands today.  If he confesses, the facts speak for themselves and are considered well-proved.  If he continues to assert his innocence, I very much doubt he will be able to argue that he lacked the planning capacity to carry out such a scheme as that's not in itself exculpatory in the context of the evidence in this case.  Each case has to be looked at as fact-specific.  I'm not very familiar with the Barry George case, but I imagine one reason his lawyers made the brain scan argument is that there was common ground between the Crown and the appellant about the facts of the case, the only dispute being over who did it.  That's won't be the case in Jeremy Bamber's appeal.

The bottom line is that appeal evidence has to undermine the murder conviction, not prove points in isolation or pursue vendettas.  Everybody looking at this case would do well to remember that basic point.

I'm unsure if you are intentionally missing my point or you are still playing catch up?

I will break it down for you..

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but if we assume that Bamber did this and if we also assume that the Crown's case theory is - more or less - correct, then Bamber's crime demonstrates sophisticated criminal planning abilities.  He fabricated a telephone call from Nevill.  He concealed the moderator in the gun cupboard to exclude that evidence.  He staged the crime scene to portray a murder-suicide.  He knew where everybody slept and presumably waited until the early hours to be certain Nevill was in bed (remember, it was a summer night), possibly so that he could manufacture a kill series that would assist his inheritance prospects.  He play-acted in front of the police and at the funeral in front of his extended family and the public (in effect, mocking poor Colin Caffell - arguably the biggest surviving victim of all). Etc., etc.  You know this case better than me: you'll come up with points of your own, I'm sure.

You follow my point, I assume.  This is cold, cold stuff.  There is simply no prospect of the Court of Appeal, or indeed the Parole Board, or the Secretary of State for Justice, accepting a defence, appeal or argument that this wasn't carefully planned and that Bamber was somehow mentally or psychologically debilitated.  That train has left the station..

I agree with this

"There is simply no prospect of the Court of Appeal, or indeed the Parole Board, or the Secretary of State for Justice, accepting a defence, appeal or argument that this wasn't carefully planned and that Bamber was somehow mentally or psychologically debilitated.

And I presume Essex police knew this when they arrested and charged Bamber - their view will be the same now as it was then - do you agree?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 02:45:05 PM
I'm unsure if you are intentionally missing my point or you are still playing catch up?

I will break it down for you..

I agree with this

I'm not trying to intentionally miss any point.  I have addressed your argument in every particular and then some.  Jeremy Bamber does not have learning difficulties.  He can write letters.  He can think and is of at least average intelligence.  That's enough.  If you're trying to show me that he is, or might be, a psychopath, I have already addressed what I think about this unsupported opinion or speculation of yours, which in my view rises only a little above the intellectual level of one of those American true crime thrillers they used to broadcast on a Wednesday night.  In any event, his lawyers will never submit him to a brain scan to prove or disprove this, even if it could be provable, and even if they did for some reason, brain scans that align or not with a thesis of psychopathy are not in and of themselves proof of anything in the context of this case because the other evidence would still stand. 

From the defence point-of-view, I can imagine a scenario where the defence argue at appeal that brain scans show a diminished capacity for planning, but that would have to be in conjunction with other evidence that actually casts doubt on the conviction, which in turn raises a doubt, Q.E.D., about why the neuoscientific evidence would be needed at all.  Either the conviction is legally safe or not.  Brain scans in and of themselves won't cast doubt on the conviction, and you also have to contend with the problem that this is 33 years and counting after the event. 

That's apart from my belief, as stated above, that neuroscience is not rigorous, and in the sense of the type of evidence you propose, it wouldn't be taken seriously - regardless of the reason for it.  More importantly, it wouldn't affect his conviction one way or the other, as it's not relevant given that other evidence does prove he was the perpetrator.  You may of course disagree with my legal prognosis.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 02:49:18 PM
I'm not trying to intentionally miss any point.  I have addressed your argument in every particular and then some.  Jeremy Bamber does not have learning difficulties.  He can write letters.  He can think and is of at least average intelligence.  That's enough.  If you're trying to show me that he is, or might be, a psychopath, I have already addressed what I think about this unsupported opinion or speculation of yours, which in my view rises only a little above the intellectual level of one of those American true crime thrillers they used to broadcast on a Wednesday night.  In any event, his lawyers will never submit him to a brain scan to prove or disprove this, even if it could be provable, and even if they did for some reason, brain scans that align or not with a thesis of psychopathy are not in and of themselves proof of anything in the context of this case because the other evidence would still stand. 

From the defence point-of-view, I can imagine a scenario where the defence argue at appeal that brain scans show a diminished capacity for planning, but that would have to be in conjunction with other evidence that actually casts doubt on the conviction, which in turn raises a doubt, Q.E.D., about why the neuoscientific evidence would be needed at all.  Either the conviction is legally safe or not.  Brain scans in and of themselves won't cast doubt on the conviction, and you also have to contend with the problem that this is 33 years and counting after the event. 

That's apart from my belief, as stated above, that neuroscience is not rigorous, and in the sense of the type of evidence you propose, it wouldn't be taken seriously - regardless of the reason for it.  More importantly, it wouldn't affect his conviction one way or the other, as it's not relevant given that other evidence does prove he was the perpetrator.  You may of course disagree with my legal prognosis.

It's not MY unsupported opinion or speculation - re psychopathy - it's what his defence were told pre trial

He's spent the last 30 years claiming there's nothing wrong with him and even completed 27 tests to prove this point

You're going off on tangents... I get the impression you are doing it on purpose

Anyway -

Bamber's brain was fully developed by the time of the murders - seems you have totally missed the point after all.

A simple brain scan will show his supporters that they've been duped and (from firsthand experience) I imagine this is something the CCRC would want confirmation of before they even consider his current application (if they have one?)

Maybe one of Bambers supporters will remind the CCRC - though I doubt after their dealings with the Simon Hall case they will have forgotten?

I've yet to see the CCRC make public their findings following unsuccessful referrals to the COA but they DO say they will go away and see what lessons can be learned etc...

Finally for now, as we've been posting back and forth today, you appeared to lose all rationale and indeed common sense and went off in another direction entirely...  Why was that?

I have no current interest in Simon Hall, whoever he is.  My interest is in Jeremy Bamber's case.  That's what this Forum is for.  I welcome discussion of analogous cases, but I don't see how your summary helps me understand the Bamber case.

Guilty people do maintain their innocence.  We know this.  We know that that might be the case with Jeremy Bamber.  For one thing, if he confessed he would be immediately in danger among Category A prisoners as an admitted double child killer.  So he has an incentive to lie, the lies being part of a self-preservation strategem.  I acknowledge and accept this possibility.  But none of us need to be told this.  We know. 

Simon Hall's case tells me nothing about whether Jeremy Bamber is falsely protesting his innocence.  Simon Hall is Simon Hall. Jeremy Bamber is Jeremy Bamber.  There may be things to learn from the Simon Hall case - legal reasoning often is based on analogies - but what Simon Hall did or didn't do is no proof or indication of anything about Jeremy Bamber.

Turning to psychopathy, I treat it as a thesis only and any assertion of psychopathy is nothing more than a thesis statement and an allegation, not a diagnosis.  That said, let me be clear that I am not an expert in psychology or psychiatry.  I comment as a layman entirely - and I may well be wrong, but if I am wrong, then I'm in very good company, stellar company in fact.

I wouldn't say that I am 'naive' about human nature.  I have encountered lots of different types of people, including people who would be broadly considered sociopaths (a different thing to a 'psychopath').  I have lived in and among such people, shared cells with them in the toughest prisons - including multiple murderers (including a man who was once on Britain's equivalent of death row), including sadistic drug lords and terrorists, etc., and I was once charged with terrorist offences myself as well as other things.  I am not a babe in the wood walking round in a rosy daze, innocently oblivious to human nature.

I do accept that there are people who have a diminished conscience.  What I don't accept is psychopathy as anything more than a tenuous academic thesis.  It so happens that neither does mainstream psychiatry, which is quite telling given that there would be every incentive for the pharmaceutical industry to see a large sub-set of the population diagnosed as psychopaths.  Which is not, I accept, proof of anything, and as I have already observed, there are recognised personality disorders that are analogous to psychopathy.

"Simon Hall is Simon Hall - Jeremy Bamber is Jeremy Bamber" what's that all about?

Holly kindly started a thread in order for comparisons to be made re the 2 cases http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8523.0 maybe it's time you started practicing what you preach to others.

Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post.  This is a decontextualised medium.  That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post?  What's the relevance of it?  This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour.  She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.

I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted.  I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people.  This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre.  She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths.  She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers. 

To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner.  My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree.  Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.

Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.

I have started to read up on the Bamber case and have formed some initial impressions. 

First, I am not going to get dragged into partisan discussions and exchanges that speculate about Bamber's culpability. I was not there.  I don't know if he is guilty or not.  If you are 'emotional' or 'partisan' about this case, I'd prefer that you don't reply to this thread.  My interest in this case is purely in terms of whether the convictions are legally safe. 

If that offends you, or if any other aspect of my post offends you, then I apologise, but that being the case, please ignore this thread rather than reply.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 02, 2018, 07:18:05 PM

You're going off on tangents... I get the impression you are doing it on purpose


You do come across a bit obnoxiously in these posts.  Can I politely ask you to please calm down and please think about how you put yourself across on a public forum to other people?  Obviously I don't come across perfectly at times, but I'm really not trying to provoke you here.  I think I've posted calm, measured and rational responses to everything you've said, at no point "going off on tangents".

One point you do make interests me. 

It's not MY unsupported opinion or speculation - re psychopathy - it's what his defence were told pre trial

What is your evidence that the defence were told before trial that he is a psychopath?  Who told the defence this?  What were/are that person's qualifications?  Was that evidence admitted into evidence?  If not, why not, given that the defence have an obligation of disclosure?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 07:51:11 PM
Turning to psychopathy, I treat it as a thesis only and any assertion of psychopathy is nothing more than a thesis statement and an allegation, not a diagnosis.  That said, let me be clear that I am not an expert in psychology or psychiatry.  I comment as a layman entirely - and I may well be wrong, but if I am wrong, then I'm in very good company, stellar company in fact.

I wouldn't say that I am 'naive' about human nature.  I have encountered lots of different types of people, including people who would be broadly considered sociopaths (a different thing to a 'psychopath').  I have lived in and among such people, shared cells with them in the toughest prisons - including multiple murderers (including a man who was once on Britain's equivalent of death row), including sadistic drug lords and terrorists, etc., and I was once charged with terrorist offences myself as well as other things.  I am not a babe in the wood walking round in a rosy daze, innocently oblivious to human nature.

I do accept that there are people who have a diminished conscience.  What I don't accept is psychopathy as anything more than a tenuous academic thesis.  It so happens that neither does mainstream psychiatry, which is quite telling given that there would be every incentive for the pharmaceutical industry to see a large sub-set of the population diagnosed as psychopaths.  Which is not, I accept, proof of anything, and as I have already observed, there are recognised personality disorders that are analogous to psychopathy.

What did your pre-trial assessments reveal about you?

You are preaching to the choir. If as you claim you've been in prison you'll understand how the system works, especially in mass murder cases like this.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 02, 2018, 08:44:24 PM
Perhaps I wrongly assumed you were aware of my past link to Simon Hall?

Not dissimilar to Bamber he maintained innocence and launched a "high profile" public campaign. The CCRC referred his case back to the COA in 2010. His conviction was upheld in early 2011. He confessed his guilt in 2013 and hung himself in 2014.

I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding psychopathy now but hold my hands up to being naive back then; especially in relation to cluster b personality types.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials and how a hyperthetically future re- trial may play out.

Btw I've found your posts a breath of fresh air both here and on blue, all things considered
. Your posts appear to have garnered a lot of interest. You'll have most certainly rattled Bamber cage anyway  8((()*/

Putting what you see as my "anti-Bamber bias" aside and looking at this case from a pro Bamber point of view, what do you have to say to him and his supporters (and the supposed fence sitters) in relation to the way in which Bamber has played out his public campaign these past 3 decades?

I redacted the above once you started posting here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg455007#msg455007 you let yourself down - big time

You were given the benefit of the doubt but I now recognise strong women intimidate you. - And so you revert to abuse and aggression https://babe.net/2016/10/25/asked-psychologist-men-put-off-strong-women-884
and that's probably why you feel more comfortable on the blue forum with the boys - do you perceive yourself as an alpha male by any chance?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 02, 2018, 08:57:42 PM
Yes.  I'm a self-educated man, but I am very knowledgeable about the law - more so than some practising solicitors.  In fact, some weeks ago, I was explaining the intricacies of trust law to a solicitor who specialises in private client work, which may be more a commentary on standards in that profession than my cognitive abilities.  Nevertheless, I know things.  I read books.  I have a lot of experience of criminal law and practice and the ways of the courts, including how evidence is collected, the different types of evidence, how witnesses are adduced, etc..  And I've also spent a lot of time in the sort of place where you have time to read lots of books, especially law-related books, among other materials.

If you think I'm wrong (and I may be, I'm not omniscient and don't pretend to be), then we can either leave it or you can consult a practising solicitor, who - I believe - may well confirm that when a defendant or appellant needs to obtain expert evidence, he will (as a rule, exceptions allowing) seek to control the selection of expert(s), the terms of reference and sometimes (depending on the field or discipline involved), the methodology and (if applicable) technology used.  The point is that that is perfectly normal and there is nothing suspicious about it, and any defendant or appellant who is not allowed this freedom by a would-be benefactor may well turn down that help on the basis that the outcome of an undirected expert may be unhelpful or even prejudicial.  The defendant or appellant in any criminal case is perfectly entitled to take this view, there is nothing wrong with it - to the contrary, it would be strange otherwise.  However, at all times, the first duty of the expert is to the court and nothing changes that. 

I accept that sometimes would-be appellants seeking to overturn wrongful convictions avail themselves of the help of third parties who direct the expert evidence themselves, without input from the appellant, but that doesn't change what I have said, which is that a directed expert is the normal practice, provided that at all times the expert retains his autonomy and independence as an expert and fulfils his overriding duty to justice. 

In other words, and to put it plainly - he must follow the instructions of the defendant in terms of what he is looking for and (sometimes, if the field or discipline of the expert makes this appropriate) how and in what manner he looks for it, but he can't fabricate evidence or findings, or produce misleading findings or in any way lie, exaggerate or mislead the court about material matters.  Nor can he overstep his conclusions without making it clear that he is only proffering an opinion.  Nor should be misrepresent his expertise.

I hope that explains it fully.

Forensic scientists are in the business of selling their expertise to whoever funds it.  They are only restricted by their professional code of conduct eg if I went to a forensic scientist and said name your price this is the outcome I'm looking for hopefully 99.9% would tell me to do one.  It would be pretty futile anyway as others eg prosecutors would soon knock anything of its perch that's not capable of withstanding scrutiny.   

Having exchanged correspondence with JB I have found his case knowledge poor and in some respects I think he's deluded.  The same applies to those around him eg CT however well intentioned.  The lawyers involved to date have an appalling track record.  So why would I hand over my IP and cash to these people?  I might just as well gather the evidence and discuss how best to use it with others I have some confidence in. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 02, 2018, 09:37:14 PM
Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post.  This is a decontextualised medium.  That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post?  What's the relevance of it?  This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour.  She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.

I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted.  I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people.  This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre.  She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths.  She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers. 

To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner.  My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree.  Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.

Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.

I think Stephanie's ref to smug and insufferable were ref to your description of us on the so-called Blue forum. 

Many of the members here have been banned from the Blue forum including myself and the owner of this forum. 

I have recently agreed with Stephanie we will draw a line under what has gone and move on.  It seems from your last para you wish to do the same.  So we're all signed up. 

Stephanie's recent personal experience of her late husband's case no doubt causes her to look at JB's case from a different angle.  Stephanie believed her late husband's claims of innocence.  As I understand it many experts and lawyers were also sympathetic to his cause including high profile lawyers like Sir Keir Starmer.   

As far as moderating the forum goes we only take action when the rules on the homepage are broken.  We don't take action on the basis one poster doesn't like the post content or style of another.  If we did there would be no one left!  If you experience any problems rather than posting about it on the open forum I would ask you either report the post using the report to moderator function or send me a pm referring me to the offending posts. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 03, 2018, 10:28:30 AM
I have to say, one or two people over on that 'blue' forum are off their heads.  So much so, I'm starting to wonder if they've been tapping Bamber for illicit substances.

On a serious note, Bamber does need to be realistic in the arguments he puts forward.  And, as I've tried to explain to the people on 'blue', the arguments put forward to the CCRC (and, by extension, to the appellate judges), have to challenge his murder conviction, not exercise vendettas.

David's really a newer version of Mike,  with his theories.

The main difference is Mike just posts about the case to himself on his own threads. David focuses on trying to undermine guilters with images & 'gish gash' posts.  He also used to quote other posters 5 year old posts. Confident his own quiet stance change would not be discovered.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 05, 2018, 11:25:16 AM
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 05, 2018, 12:11:44 PM
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

Trudi visited JB in prison. 

Supporters will have their own reasons for supporting JB. 

My reasons for supporting JB are connected with my psychology course particularly attachment theory and June's depression circa 1959 and its effect on SC.  Also adoption and reunions.  We know SC was reunited with her birth mother a few weeks before the tragedy.  Around the time I read about JB's 2011/12 CCRC app I read about the case of Rachel James which to my mind had some similarities with SC's case.   
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 05, 2018, 12:24:24 PM
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/characteristics-of-a-sociopath.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 05, 2018, 12:34:30 PM
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

This vid is only a few minutes long but may answers some of your question Adam?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KHdMYbkrQ-0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 05, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
Speaking of Bamber supporters, the blue forums latest mad man, Nigel, is currently posting how he would like to Kill Anne and David and how he looks forward to the murder trial.

He's been a crank since day one. I don't know why so many of them pretended he was a genuine supporter and played along. Desperate.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 05, 2018, 09:13:38 PM
Speaking of Bamber supporters, the blue forums latest mad man, Nigel, is currently posting how he would like to Kill Anne and David and how he looks forward to the murder trial.

He's been a crank since day one. I don't know why so many of them pretended he was a genuine supporter and played along. Desperate.

He reminds me of one of Charles Manson's deciples. I can see the headlines now - 'Cult leader Jeremy Bamber

You've missed out JM - he threatened all 3 of them

It's not just Bamber who needs a check up from the neck up

What's "red frame white light?"
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 05, 2018, 09:55:08 PM
At first I thought Mike had created a new pretend poster.   So he can pretend someone agrees with him. Now I am not so sure & Nigel might actually be a real person.

With Lookout gone, the remaining posters are Mike, David, Nugs & Nigel. I look forward to some good discussion.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 05, 2018, 10:00:19 PM
At first I thought Mike had created a new pretend poster.   So he can pretend someone agrees with him. Now I am not so sure & Nigel might actually be a real person.

With Lookout gone, the remaining posters are Mike, David, Nugs & Nigel. I look forward to some good discussion.

Nige has probably just got off the phone from Bamber
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 05, 2018, 10:08:34 PM

What's "red frame white light?"

Got no idea, never heard that before.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 05, 2018, 10:16:56 PM
David was very lucky that the moderators on Blue allowed him to goad with his images, 'gish gash' posts & quote other people's 5 year old posts. Perhaps because he had brown nosed a moderator early on to get his 'forensic evidence breakthrough' praised.

If no one posts on there, at least these will stop.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 05, 2018, 11:04:49 PM
I bet Jerry's security files have an office of there own  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5459.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 05, 2018, 11:27:18 PM
The moderators won't give Nigel a permanent ban for this. I used to complain enough when other posters called me names & abused me.

One of the moderators doesn't like me as I'm not a former moderator, elderly, a supporter, woman or have learning disability.  Mike would want Nigel to stay anyway.

I didn't mind LuminousWanderers post so much until he said 'I've seen it'.  If LuminousWanderer is gay, he's certainly not seen me with my clothes off.

Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this.  ()678%
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: LuminousWanderer on April 05, 2018, 11:48:43 PM
How does joining in make you any better?

Joining in what?  I'm not the one who's irrational.  I'm not the one who's playing at judge and jury.  That's your department.

How do you know Jeremy Bamber killed those people?  Has he personally telephoned you and confessed?  I'm intrigued to know how you can be so certain?  The truth is that you can't be.  It's just your ego.  That's how miscarriages of justice occur in the first place.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 05, 2018, 11:52:42 PM
Nigel's posts and threads will just encourage Mike, David & Nugs to post. Anyone not familiar with the case who views the forum rather than goes to the OS will know Bamber is guilty. Meaning potential support will be lost.

But Mike won't shut the forum down despite Bamber's request.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 05, 2018, 11:58:05 PM
Joining in what?  I'm not the one who's irrational.  I'm not the one who's playing at judge and jury.  That's your department.

How do you know Jeremy Bamber killed those people?  Has he personally telephoned you and confessed?  I'm intrigued to know how you can be so certain?  The truth is that you can't be.  It's just your ego.  That's how miscarriages of justice occur in the first place.


No one believes they are irrational
I'm not exactly sure what you are playing
You're a member of both forums yourself
I am as certain as I can be
That's all!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 06, 2018, 12:04:52 AM
Some people have no sense of humour.  Nigel's posts are obviously ridiculous and I am just pulling his leg.  But before we go on too much about Nigel, he's just an extreme case.  There are also one or two people on here who come across as somewhat irrational and like to gaslight posters.

 @)(++(* @)(++(*

Now that you've given us the low down on what you think of us, what's your take on Bamber? How does he came across? You've seen his police statements and interview transcripts I presume.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 06, 2018, 11:23:38 AM
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this.  ()678%

I'm assuming Mike and 'Nigel' are one and the same? 

Are you able to tell us more about the fundraising event? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 06, 2018, 11:37:30 AM
Joining in what?  I'm not the one who's irrational.  I'm not the one who's playing at judge and jury.  That's your department.

How do you know Jeremy Bamber killed those people?  Has he personally telephoned you and confessed?  I'm intrigued to know how you can be so certain?  The truth is that you can't be.  It's just your ego.  That's how miscarriages of justice occur in the first place.

I think most will agree Caroline's posts are far from irrational. 

A judge and jury found JB guilty in 1986. 

If you think Caroline's posts are ego driven how do you account for the judges' summing up and verdict at trial and conclusions at appeals?  Oh and the judges' conclusions at judicial review.  These are the male, Oxbridge educated judges you hold in high esteem.

Anyway let's all please desist from personal comments and stick to debating the facts of the case as we perceive them.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 06, 2018, 11:56:20 AM
Nigel's posts and threads will just encourage Mike, David & Nugs to post. Anyone not familiar with the case who views the forum rather than goes to the OS will know Bamber is guilty. Meaning potential support will be lost.

But Mike won't shut the forum down despite Bamber's request.

We have the owner of this forum to thank for taking the time and trouble to upload docs thus creating an alternative to what many regard as the madness on Blue!  Although ironically many of them on Blue are very much to the left of the political spectrum ie red!  Bet they're seeing red they're blue and not red  8()(((@# @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 06, 2018, 06:00:41 PM
I'm assuming Mike and 'Nigel' are one and the same? 

Are you able to tell us more about the fundraising event?

The OCT hired out a family pub to hold a fundraising event for Jeremy Bamber. They planned to break world records, have a raffle and live music - all the raise money for Bamber.

The issue is that when they booked the function room they DIDN'T tell the landlord what they were planning to raise money for. As you can imagine the landlord was shocked and disgusted that these people were trying to use his pub for an event like this.

He contacted them to cancel the event and for two days they still carried on selling tickets (even though they knew that the event was cancelled.

It took the landlord to contact them a second time to have the event taken down.

It shows how dishonest they are.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 06, 2018, 06:18:23 PM
The OCT hired out a family pub to hold a fundraising event for Jeremy Bamber. They planned to break world records, have a raffle and live music - all the raise money for Bamber.

The issue is that when they booked the function room they DIDN'T tell the landlord what they were planning to raise money for. As you can imagine the landlord was shocked and disgusted that these people were trying to use his pub for an event like this.

He contacted them to cancel the event and for two days they still carried on selling tickets (even though they knew that the event was cancelled.

It took the landlord to contact them a second time to have the event taken down.

It shows how dishonest they are.

I saw that advertised in this paper http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswich-essex-david-cameron-vows-to-ensure-murderers-like-steve-wright-and-jeremy-bamber-die-in-prison-1-3171981

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 06, 2018, 08:47:44 PM
The OCT hired out a family pub to hold a fundraising event for Jeremy Bamber. They planned to break world records, have a raffle and live music - all the raise money for Bamber.

The issue is that when they booked the function room they DIDN'T tell the landlord what they were planning to raise money for. As you can imagine the landlord was shocked and disgusted that these people were trying to use his pub for an event like this.

He contacted them to cancel the event and for two days they still carried on selling tickets (even though they knew that the event was cancelled.

It took the landlord to contact them a second time to have the event taken down.

It shows how dishonest they are.

They didn't tell the landlord who the benefit was for??  %56& Unbelievable!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 06, 2018, 08:48:56 PM
I think most will agree Caroline's posts are far from irrational. 

A judge and jury found JB guilty in 1986. 

If you think Caroline's posts are ego driven how do you account for the judges' summing up and verdict at trial and conclusions at appeals?  Oh and the judges' conclusions at judicial review.  These are the male, Oxbridge educated judges you hold in high esteem.

Anyway let's all please desist from personal comments and stick to debating the facts of the case as we perceive them.

Cheers Holly!  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 06, 2018, 09:21:16 PM
They didn't tell the landlord who the benefit was for??  %56& Unbelievable!

The newspaper only said it was for a miscarriage of justice victim

And it seems the acoustic duo are still none the wiser?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 06, 2018, 09:36:11 PM
The newspaper only said it was for a miscarriage of justice victim

And it seems the acoustic duo are still none the wiser?

Guess it shows that they knew the landlord wouldn't have been impressed if they didn't say who it was for. How did they think he wouldn't have found out if they're Bambering senseless on the night! Bad show!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 06, 2018, 09:55:14 PM
They didn't tell the landlord who the benefit was for??  %56& Unbelievable!

For obvious reason ! A joke isn't it. Once the landlord saw the poster they were using he was horrorfied that he'd been tricked in such a way.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 06, 2018, 10:01:27 PM
For obvious reason ! A joke isn't it. Once the landlord saw the poster they were using he was horrorfied that he'd been tricked in such a way.

Don't know how they thought they would get away with it - maybe they just don't care, which is worrying!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 06, 2018, 10:17:23 PM
Don't know how they thought they would get away with it - maybe they just don't care, which is worrying!

I've just seen the poster and that record breaker chap has his photo side by side Jerry, they have matching ties and glasses and the same smirk - now that's worrying
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 07, 2018, 09:35:38 AM
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post.  He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose,  or swear,  goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum.  David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.

He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing,  commenting on Nigel.

His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 07, 2018, 10:26:11 AM
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post.  He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose,  or swear,  goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum.  David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.

He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing,  commenting on Nigel.

His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.

I hadn't seen his signature until today Adam; how interesting

"Absolutely no parallels between Simon Hall case and Jeremy Bamber case.  None whatsoever.  Utterly irrelevant"

 @)(++(*

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: sika on April 07, 2018, 11:03:51 AM
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post.  He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose,  or swear,  goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum.  David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.

He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing,  commenting on Nigel.

His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.
I used to enjoy reading Roch's posts.  I find him difficult to read these days.  Too much anger!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 07, 2018, 11:45:06 AM
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post.  He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose,  or swear,  goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum.  David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.

He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing,  commenting on Nigel.

His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.

I've found Roch has become very gullible, irrational and naive.  He has recently claimed outgoing DPP, Alison Saunders, is aware of the non-disclosed wounds to SC and "her victims". 

I think what he means is a 'supporter' has written to AS and she, or more like a member of her back office staff, has acknowledged receipt of the letter.

Seriously Roch you believe Dr Vanezis overlooked numerous wounds to SC and "her victims"?  It's claims like this that harm JB's case IMO. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9324.msg436405.html#msg436405
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on April 07, 2018, 12:18:14 PM
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post.  He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose,  or swear,  goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum.  David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.

He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing,  commenting on Nigel.

His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.

For the record Roch has never been banned here.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 07, 2018, 12:21:39 PM
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post.  He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose,  or swear,  goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum.  David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.

He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing,  commenting on Nigel.

His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.

The likes of David and Roch are able to post all sorts of whacky theories on Blue as they don't have anyone from the innocent camp to challenge them.

When I challenge David here he refers to me as "catty" and then runs away back to the Blue forum.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8956.msg448211#msg448211
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 07, 2018, 12:34:25 PM
I hadn't seen his signature until today Adam; how interesting

"Absolutely no parallels between Simon Hall case and Jeremy Bamber case.  None whatsoever.  Utterly irrelevant"

 @)(++(*

The irony being of course, he admits to knowing nothing about the Hall case


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8041.msg380937.html#msg380937  8(0(*

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9319.msg436597.html#msg436597  @)(++(* -
Btw - They didn't pin anything on him. You are twisting things as usual and making things up as you go. 

A further observation is the fact you (Lookout) do not recognise your own projections.
"I'm not interested in how any individual reaches their own conclusion providing their answer/explanation doesn't degrade that person/poster on a personal basis if their thoughts/theories don't match their own" http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9319.msg436602.html?PHPSESSID=dstpjr0144hk5ru4cvg33irkh3#msg436602

"JB was the " Billy Liar " of his day who enjoyed jesting and bragging to those who he thought or knew would know that this was part of his make-up. Again another show of immaturity who the likes of JM would ignore anyway as she knew what he was like-----------but she also sadly used this quirk when it best suited her to. No wonder she broke down during questioning because she knew deep down that what she was supposed to have said wasn't true. You don't cry when you know you're telling the truth!!   *&^^&http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9319.msg436615.html#msg436615
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 07, 2018, 02:54:10 PM
No one believes they are irrational
I'm not exactly sure what you are playing
You're a member of both forums yourself
I am as certain as I can be
That's all!

Imho I think LM has an axe to grind and they are using the Bamber case in order to grind their axe so to speak. Whether they are attempting to show they are superior to the rest of us, I don't know? But I do think they are using the wrong case in which to grind their axe/prove their point.

Seems after LM has "held court," had a tantrum and lost all self control, they are off:

"I've had enough.  I'm asking the administrators to delete my account and posts here."

Prior to this they made an ultimatum between Steve_UK and themselves - one or other of them had to go.  How very intelligent and mature of them
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9320.msg436625.html#msg436625

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9347.msg436632/topicseen.html#msg436632

This is what Lookout had to say: "There are some who enjoy being top dog and when it doesn't materialise they show their true colours. Their aim being to disrupt when things don't go their way."

Oh the irony


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 07, 2018, 06:14:06 PM
For obvious reason ! A joke isn't it. Once the landlord saw the poster they were using he was horrorfied that he'd been tricked in such a way.

"Whoever is posting an event on Twitter supposedly to be held at The Cork Bar to raise funds for Jeremy Bamber please contact the Cork Bar asap, we will not be holding an event to raise funds for a convicted murderer
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on April 07, 2018, 06:31:30 PM
We have the owner of this forum to thank for taking the time and trouble to upload docs thus creating an alternative to what many regard as the madness on Blue!  Although ironically many of them on Blue are very much to the left of the political spectrum ie red!  Bet they're seeing red they're blue and not red  8()(((@# @)(++(*

It seems a long time ago now Holly but you are spot on.  The original forum was indeed set up to counter the malicious propaganda being promoted on the Jeremy Bamber forum. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 07, 2018, 08:51:01 PM
It seems a long time ago now Holly but you are spot on.  The original forum was indeed set up to counter the malicious propaganda being promoted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.

Yes time flies!  Well I'm certainly grateful for your endeavours.  It takes a lot of time to scan and upload docs, naming them etc.   8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 07, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
I hope LuminiousWanderer continues to post here.  I quite liked the case related content of his/her posts although he/she seems to get easily frustrated with others.   

Hope you join us again soon LuminiousWanderer.   8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 07, 2018, 10:39:29 PM
I hope LuminiousWanderer continues to post here.  I quite liked the case related content of his/her posts although he/she seems to get easily frustrated with others.   

Hope you join us again soon LuminiousWanderer.   8((()*/

Luminous asked for his/her posts to be removed and account deleted.  Lookout told them they have a "weak attitude" for doing this...... On the same day Lookout returns from doing the exact same thing.

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 08, 2018, 09:45:43 AM
The likes of David and Roch are able to post all sorts of whacky theories on Blue as they don't have anyone from the innocent camp to challenge them.

When I challenge David here he refers to me as "catty" and then runs away back to the Blue forum.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8956.msg448211#msg448211

Mike posts his theories on Blue as it's his forum.

Other posters post their crazy theories or 'secret information' claims on Blue because they know they will be allowed to focus on the poster if a guilter disagrees. They will also have Nugs & Lookout supporting them due to 'gut feelings' & conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 08, 2018, 09:55:28 AM
Lookout reaffirming yesterday she supports Bamber for non evidence reasons -

"For starters I'm a staunch pro-Bamber,always have been and remain to be so. Because I remember these murders as though it were yesterday, and I immediately " sensed " that JB wasn't guilty."
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 08, 2018, 03:26:42 PM
I'm not trying to intentionally miss any point.  I have addressed your argument in every particular and then some.  Jeremy Bamber does not have learning difficulties.  He can write letters.  He can think and is of at least average intelligence.  That's enough.  If you're trying to show me that he is, or might be, a psychopath, I have already addressed what I think about this unsupported opinion or speculation of yours, which in my view rises only a little above the intellectual level of one of those American true crime thrillers they used to broadcast on a Wednesday night.  In any event, his lawyers will never submit him to a brain scan to prove or disprove this, even if it could be provable, and even if they did for some reason, brain scans that align or not with a thesis of psychopathy are not in and of themselves proof of anything in the context of this case because the other evidence would still stand. 

From the defence point-of-view, I can imagine a scenario where the defence argue at appeal that brain scans show a diminished capacity for planning, but that would have to be in conjunction with other evidence that actually casts doubt on the conviction, which in turn raises a doubt, Q.E.D., about why the neuoscientific evidence would be needed at all.  Either the conviction is legally safe or not.  Brain scans in and of themselves won't cast doubt on the conviction, and you also have to contend with the problem that this is 33 years and counting after the event. 

That's apart from my belief, as stated above, that neuroscience is not rigorous, and in the sense of the type of evidence you propose, it wouldn't be taken seriously - regardless of the reason for it.  More importantly, it wouldn't affect his conviction one way or the other, as it's not relevant given that other evidence does prove he was the perpetrator.  You may of course disagree with my legal prognosis.

More flaws
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 08, 2018, 03:33:48 PM
Lookout reaffirming yesterday she supports Bamber for non evidence reasons -

"For starters I'm a staunch pro-Bamber,always have been and remain to be so. Because I remember these murders as though it were yesterday, and I immediately " sensed " that JB wasn't guilty."

 @)(++(* don't Adam  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 08, 2018, 04:00:13 PM
The likes of David and Roch are able to post all sorts of whacky theories on Blue as they don't have anyone from the innocent camp to challenge them.

When I challenge David here he refers to me as "catty" and then runs away back to the Blue forum.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8956.msg448211#msg448211

Here's another made by Roch yesterday:

"Yeah like I tried to express: in this case, you either support the living relatives or you respect the right of the deceased relatives to have the true facts of their deaths known.  But you can't do both.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8796.msg436642.html#msg436642

YOU can't do both Roch
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 08, 2018, 04:25:26 PM
The latest propaganda https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/982929278412214272/photo/1

My Grandparents could not only remember what they did as children but could remember specific smells and sounds as though it were yesterday. What utter nonsense!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 10, 2018, 11:21:53 AM
Amen re Michael O'Brien's spiel http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9356.msg436837.html?PHPSESSID=3lvu8kmur28v63rnvd370g2ps4#msg436837

A stratagem to further ones owns self interests. Same applies to Patron Michelle Bates.

Both appear preoccupied with themselves and in so being have disregarded the truth and the interests and well-being of others in order to further their own causes. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 11, 2018, 12:34:59 PM
Excluding practicing lawyers and experts (eg Michael Turner QC and Peter Sutherst both on record saying they believe JB innocent or words to this effect) I guess supporters can be broken down into two groups: those with somewhat of a public profile such as Andrew Hunter MP and actress Susan Penhaligon and those without a public profile such as members of the CT and Mike Tesko.  The group without a public profile attempt to engage with the public: the CT with JB's website, bake-off, graveside reading and letters to the Justic Sec etc and Mike with his forum and youtube vids.  Supporting posters on forums mostly post under first names, derivatives or pseudonyms so don't count.   

Those claiming to be the victim of a MoJ usually have family support either the entire family or a dedicated family member or two eg:

Stefan Kiszko - mother

Sally Clark - husband and father.  In this case SC's husband was a solictor and her father a serving police officer. 

Michael Hickey - mother

Stephen Downing - parents and sister

Sam Hallam - family

Often family members are supported by a significant other:

- Stefan Kiszko - solicitor - Campbell Malone

- Michael Hickey - journalist - Paul Foot

- Stephen Downing - journalist - Don Hale

- Sam Hallam - Actor - Ray Winstone and Playwright - Tess Berry-Hart

Looking further afield the likes of David Bain benefitted from the support of NZ's All Black rugby player Joe Karam.  Amanda Knox benefitted from a very capable group known as 'Judges For Justice'.

Is JB's case a dead duck, long in the water?  Or has JB been disadvantaged, harmed even, by supporters past and present and/or lack of a capable, credible, long-term supporter(s) prepared to commit?   

19

Holly you started this thread to discuss whether or not Bambers supporters were a help hindrance or causing him harm

I think it's important to look alongside what LM has showed us over the two forums; the facts relating to the conviction, then compare that with Bambers campaign.

Underneath it all lies the truth. It's then a case of separating what is fact and what is fiction, separating the wheat from the chaff.

Then to ask the same questions of Bamber re your thread title. What has helped, hindered and harmed him?

There's the legal argument then the moral argument.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 11, 2018, 12:49:59 PM
Excluding practicing lawyers and experts (eg Michael Turner QC and Peter Sutherst both on record saying they believe JB innocent or words to this effect) I guess supporters can be broken down into two groups: those with somewhat of a public profile such as Andrew Hunter MP and actress Susan Penhaligon and those without a public profile such as members of the CT and Mike Tesko.  The group without a public profile attempt to engage with the public: the CT with JB's website, bake-off, graveside reading and letters to the Justic Sec etc and Mike with his forum and youtube vids.  Supporting posters on forums mostly post under first names, derivatives or pseudonyms so don't count.   

Those claiming to be the victim of a MoJ usually have family support either the entire family or a dedicated family member or two eg:

Stefan Kiszko - mother

Sally Clark - husband and father.  In this case SC's husband was a solictor and her father a serving police officer. 

Michael Hickey - mother

Stephen Downing - parents and sister

Sam Hallam - family

Often family members are supported by a significant other:

- Stefan Kiszko - solicitor - Campbell Malone

- Michael Hickey - journalist - Paul Foot

- Stephen Downing - journalist - Don Hale

- Sam Hallam - Actor - Ray Winstone and Playwright - Tess Berry-Hart

Looking further afield the likes of David Bain benefitted from the support of NZ's All Black rugby player Joe Karam.  Amanda Knox benefitted from a very capable group known as 'Judges For Justice'.

Is JB's case a dead duck, long in the water?  Or has JB been disadvantaged, harmed even, by supporters past and present and/or lack of a capable, credible, long-term supporter(s) prepared to commit?   

19

What did all these people know of the person they were fighting for? Who knew them best (the appellants)?What were their motivations and agendas for fighting in the first place?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 14, 2018, 11:12:45 PM
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this.  ()678%

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1259.msg39522.html#msg39522
Offline Gemini
Junior Member
**
Posts: 52

HELLO EVERYONE
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:PM »
"Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading for the forum for sometime now and recently have been tempted to post, even it was to say some choice words to PoorBambi!!!!   Some of you know me from the FB Innocent Page and I obviously firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent.  I know the case pretty well having read several books and all the documents/statements posted.  Not sure I can add anything intelligent to the debate but I will certainly try.   I continue to learn something new everyday from the posts made and certainly think of it as valuable information for the most part.   BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book.   Thanks Tru


So Tru (Short for Trudi Benjamin?) says her hero is a man who "threatens to kill" JM and co  *&^^&

And a forum crush on Jackie  @)(++(*


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1696.msg52275.html#msg52275
"http://ww.wsd1.org/contacts/contacts.htm

"Not hard to find her on the internet.  I wonder if she would be in the position she is now with convictions for robbery and cheque book fraud and without a tidy sum to set her up.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2580.msg80447.html#msg80447

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48100.html#msg48100

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48183.html#msg48183

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1710.msg52906.html#msg52906

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2599.msg81646.html#msg81646

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2062.0

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176


"No reply and maybe it wasn't the wisest choice but I agree that a major celeb might be a good thing.  Especially since any credibility Bob Wofflechops added has sadly been wiped out!

"I think it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth.  I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent.  I bet they wish he would just shut up.
 
"Jeremy works on his case for hours and hours every day and I'm sure is angry but what good would it be if he fell apart and let the system eat him alive.  He choses to fight and he has never given up.  The justice system is against him and he has and will continue to do everything in his power to see his sentence over turned.  Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help.   Rant over :o

"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly". http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1319.msg40974.html#msg40974
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 12:00:35 AM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1259.msg39522.html#msg39522
Offline Gemini
Junior Member
**
Posts: 52

HELLO EVERYONE
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:PM »
"Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading for the forum for sometime now and recently have been tempted to post, even it was to say some choice words to PoorBambi!!!!   Some of you know me from the FB Innocent Page and I obviously firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent.  I know the case pretty well having read several books and all the documents/statements posted.  Not sure I can add anything intelligent to the debate but I will certainly try.   I continue to learn something new everyday from the posts made and certainly think of it as valuable information for the most part.   BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book.   Thanks Tru


So Tru (Short for Trudi Benjamin?) says her hero is a man who "threatens to kill" JM and co  *&^^&

And a forum crush on Jackie  @)(++(*


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1696.msg52275.html#msg52275
"http://ww.wsd1.org/contacts/contacts.htm

"Not hard to find her on the internet.  I wonder if she would be in the position she is now with convictions for robbery and cheque book fraud and without a tidy sum to set her up.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2580.msg80447.html#msg80447

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48100.html#msg48100

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48183.html#msg48183

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1710.msg52906.html#msg52906

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2599.msg81646.html#msg81646

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2062.0

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176


"No reply and maybe it wasn't the wisest choice but I agree that a major celeb might be a good thing.  Especially since any credibility Bob Wofflechops added has sadly been wiped out!

"I think it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth.  I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent.  I bet they wish he would just shut up.
 
"Jeremy works on his case for hours and hours every day and I'm sure is angry but what good would it be if he fell apart and let the system eat him alive.  He choses to fight and he has never given up.  The justice system is against him and he has and will continue to do everything in his power to see his sentence over turned.  Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help.   Rant over :o

"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly". http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1319.msg40974.html#msg40974

Wow Tru-di just Wow - you are clearly delusional  *&^^&

Here's your "hero" Mike aka Nigel

Anthony Pargeter removing .22 rifle from WHF - Firearms Act 1968
« on: Yesterday at 10:22 PM »
"Neville Bamber who was the Chairman of the Witham Magistrates Bench, would never have allowed Anthony Pargeter to take the weapons, accessories, or ammunitions away from the scene, where they were licensed to be kept, under any circumstances..."
MIKE TESKO

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/contents
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:25 PM by Nigel »
 Logged
I slow down for a speeding police car, don't you?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 15, 2018, 10:25:49 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&ampcf=1

Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -


'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"

"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."

"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 10:47:25 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&ampcf=1

Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -


'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"

"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."

"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."

This spiel fooled me once Adam when the exact same thing was said about Simon Hall.

Incidentally Dr Michael Naughton and Mike O'Brien are/were close friends. If memory serves me correct Naughton was best man at O'Brien's wedding. You'd have thought after Hall's confession they would have learned some lessons.

"The Incestuous Amplification Effect" http://www.cybercollege.com/ia.htm

n. The reinforcement of set beliefs among like-minded people, leading to miscalculations and errors in judgment.

"Without knowing it, the Columbia investigators were identifying a pervasive social problem, one that unites these examples and that leads to many failures in the public and private sectors. In military circles, this process is called “incestuous amplification.” Among psychologists, it is known as “group polarization.”

In a nutshell: Like-minded people, talking only with one another, usually end up believing a more extreme version of what they thought before they started to talk.
—Cass R. Sunstein, “The Power of Dissent,” Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2003
https://wordspy.com/index.php?word=incestuous-amplification
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&ampcf=1

Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -


'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"

"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."

"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."

Sounds like Lookout doesn't it http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg455838#msg455838
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 15, 2018, 11:45:12 AM
https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo

This Youtube video from O'Brien is on the OS.

He said there is 'new evidence' he can't disclose which wasn't brought up at trial. I assume it wasn't available in 2012 either. Not sure how this evidence has been obtained in the last 6 years if the police are withholding evidence.

He confirms the real killers of his own crime have not been caught but forensic tests showed him & his two collegues were victims of a MOJ.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 12:20:36 PM
https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo

This Youtube video from O'Brien is on the OS.

He said there is 'new evidence' he can't disclose which wasn't brought up at trial. I assume it wasn't available in 2012 either. Not sure how this evidence has been obtained in the last 6 years if the police are withholding evidence.

He confirms the real killers of his own crime have not been caught but forensic tests showed him & his two collegues were victims of a MOJ.

Court frees three over killing of newsagent
By Andrew Buncombe Saturday 18 December 1999 00:00 GMT

"Michael O'Brien has had plenty of time to choose his words carefully. Jailed 11 years ago for a murder he always insisted he did not commit, he and two others yesterday had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal.

Michael O'Brien has had plenty of time to choose his words carefully. Jailed 11 years ago for a murder he always insisted he did not commit, he and two others yesterday had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal.

Standing outside the court yesterday, Mr O'Brien, said: "I have got mixed feelings. I am pleased that my name has been cleared but I also feel for the victim's family. We know who the real killer is - his name has been mentioned in court. It is up to the police to arrest him."

He called for a public inquiry into a series of investigations by South Wales Police, the force that arrested him and charged him with murder. His demands were supported by his barrister, Michael Mansfield QC.

"This is not the only case like this - there are more than 10," said Mr O'Brien, who, with his co-appellants, had been on bail. Mr O'Brien, 32, along with Darren Hall and Ellis Sherwood - known as the Cardiff Newsagent Three - were convicted in 1988 of the 1987 murder of newsagent Philip Saunders. Mr Saunders died in hospital five days after being attacked in his back yard in the Welsh capital by someone wielding a shovel. He was never able to identify his killer to the police.

Central to the prosecution's case at the 1988 trial was a confession made to police by Mr Hall that he had acted as a lookout for the others during a "robbery that went wrong".

During the appeal, which was ordered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), the court was told the confessions could not be relied on because Mr Hall, who was 18 at the time and has since retracted his confession, was suffering from an "anti-social personality disorder". He was prone to exaggeration - once he confessed to a robbery which took place while he was on remand for another offence
.

The prosecution's own psychiatric expert conceded that Mr Hall's admissions were "at risk of being unreliable". The hearing also raised questions about the conduct of South Wales Police, who were said by the CCRC to have shown a "systematic disregard" of interrogation rules under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.

The court was told that Mr Hall was denied access to a solicitor during crucial parts of his interrogation, which included the period when he made his admissions, and was at times handcuffed to a radiator.

Yesterday, after hearing nine days of evidence, Lord Justice Roch said he and fellow judges Mr Justice Keene and Mr Justice Astill, would give a full judgement in the New Year.

After the ruling, Mr O'Brien and Mr Hall said they would be taking civil action against the South Wales Police. Citing a series of convictions involving the same force which had been overturned on appeal in recent years, Mr O'Brien claimed that there was evidence of "institutionalised corruption".

"The only way this is going to come out is to have a full, open public inquiry. If it takes me another 10 years I am going to do it. I am going to become South Wales Police's worst nightmare," Mr O'Brien said.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 12:22:13 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&ampcf=1

Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -


'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"

"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."

"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."

Would you agree that this suggests Mike O'Brien is also "prone to exaggeration?"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9166.msg447213#msg447213

"Early in the year, Michael O'Brien, a campaigner for Jeremy Bamber and against miscarriages of justice in general, gave an interview to alternative radio presenter/interviewer, Richie Allen.

Richie Allen is a good interviewer, but for anybody with some knowledge of the case, the content of the interview is not very illuminating as O'Brien goes over the usual pro-Bamber 'talking points'; meanwhile, for the ordinary public, what O'Brien has to say is deeply misleading.  I won't go into the relevant points exhaustively, as it's not my intention to nitpick.  Instead, I'd like to focus on a fundamental issue raised in the interview, which is O'Brien's contention that the crux of the case is an alleged criminal conspiracy against Bamber involving the police and members of the extended family. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9356.msg436837.html#msg436837
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo

This Youtube video from O'Brien is on the OS.

He said there is 'new evidence' he can't disclose which wasn't brought up at trial. I assume it wasn't available in 2012 either. Not sure how this evidence has been obtained in the last 6 years if the police are withholding evidence.

He confirms the real killers of his own crime have not been caught but forensic tests showed him & his two collegues were victims of a MOJ.

Btw Adam, LM clearly singled you out on blue and his abuse of you did not go unoticed by the mods in the end. LM's post are extremely telling IMO and should remain. Why would this poster request my posts stay here (even though I'd never requested there removal?) but there's be removed over there? 
No reply req; you clearly have a good fundamental grasp and understanding of all the factors in cases like this and knowledge of how and why the guilty attempt to con their way out of their despicable crimes and attempt to beat the CJS at their own game. Technicalities in law do not maketh an innocent man nor a miscarriage of justice. In fact the term "miscarriage of justice" is outdated, over used and is extremely misleading IMO.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 15, 2018, 01:10:00 PM
Btw Adam, LM clearly singled you out on blue and his abuse of you did not go unoticed by the mods in the end. LM's post are extremely telling IMO and should remain. Why would this poster request my posts stay here (even though I'd never requested there removal?) but there's be removed over there? 
No reply req; you clearly have a good fundamental grasp and understanding of all the factors in cases like this and knowledge of how and why the guilty attempt to con their way out of their despicable crimes and attempt to beat the CJS at their own game. Technicalities in law do not maketh an innocent man nor a miscarriage of justice. In fact the term "miscarriage of justice" is outdated, over used and is extremely misleading IMO.

LuminousWanderer was just frustrated that I had ripped apart his 'Sheila scenario' & then provided a source regarding Nevill being shot 4 times upstairs,  which destroyed his scenario further.

So focused on me, even creating a very abusive thread which was deleted. He will be banned if he behaves like that again, on either forum. However I rarely post on his threads.

To be fair other supporters focus on the poster if frustrated. David using his abusive images or 'gish gash' posts & Roch calling posters a 'tw..' as he did twice on Friday, or telling them to 'f--- off'.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 01:13:10 PM
LuminousWanderer was just frustrated that I had ripped apart his 'Sheila scenario' & then provided a source regarding Nevill being shot 4 times upstairs.

So focused on me, even creating a very abusive thread which was deleted. He will be banned if he behaves like that again, on either forum. However I rarely post on his threads.

To be fair other supporters focus on the poster if frustrated. David using his images & Roch calling posters a 'tw..' or telling them to 'f--- off'.

Gave their game away really didn't they. If one is neutral and not emotionally involved why then get bent out of shape over posts on an Internet forum?

I didn't see a thread aimed at you? Nasty piece of work IMO Adam.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 15, 2018, 01:19:52 PM
Gave their game away really didn't they. If one is neutral and not emotionally involved why then get bent out of shape over posts on an Internet forum?

I didn't see a thread aimed at you? Nasty piece of work IMO Adam.

It was called 'Adam is a liar and a troll'.

The thread was quickly taken down, as was Nigel's abusive thread towards me a SteveUK a week earlier. Unlike Nigel, LuminousWanderer was not banned.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 01:31:58 PM
It was called 'Adam is a liar and a troll'.

The thread was quickly taken down, as was Nigel's abusive thread towards me a SteveUK a week earlier. Unlike Nigel, LuminousWanderer was not banned.

People like Nigel think they are above the law IMO. I'm sure several posters have screen shots of his "threats to kill" and I'm sure the police, if required in the future, will be able to detect where they came from; who sent the messages etc.

You'll most probably end up with a permanent ban like many of the rest of us at some point Adam. The mods there appear to be on power trips.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 01:55:14 PM
It was called 'Adam is a liar and a troll'.

The thread was quickly taken down, as was Nigel's abusive thread towards me a SteveUK a week earlier. Unlike Nigel, LuminousWanderer was not banned.

I see Maggie has posted in reply to Steve_uk

Posts: 13393
Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 01:38 PM »
Quote from: Steve_uk on Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Well we all agree on something.

"Of course we do. Colin was a victim  as much as anyone. He showed tremendous courage and fortitude. One reason why I am so shocked that JM stayed a weekend in his flat with JB supposedly supporting him when she later claimed she  had known Jenemy was the killer.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9373.msg437322.html#msg437322

Probably for the same reason why I organised Hall's funeral. Maggie again shows her complete and utter lack of comprehension or understanding with regards what men like this do to their victims and the cognitive dissonance sufferered following such an experience. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7TO3aMgNs

Maggie suffers from a selective memory imo

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7980.msg379294.html#msg379294
"Hi Adam,
I do believe a cold blooded murderer has to have some kind of personality disorder, many have been abused as children themselves.  It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo. 
To me the main action is to keep the rest of society safe from such damaged and dangerous individuals so I am up to a point in agreement with Steve's suggestion of a safe island for such people.


The question here is why is Maggie focusing on JM's supposed wrong doings? The term "flying monkies" springs to mind.


7. Cognitive Dissonance
This one involves look within. When a psychopath enters your life, you’ll notice an intense and ever-increasing sense of dread and self-doubt. Your brain will struggle to reconcile the “perfect” person from the beginning, with the inappropriate behavior you’re starting to see more regularly. That’s because that perfect person never actually existed. It was a persona, created just for you. This is the hardest thing for our minds and hearts to understand.
With a psychopath, you’re always the bad one. Even though they lie, cheat, manipulate, steal, and con—you’re the one with the problem. Psychopaths have this innate ability to make you feel like there’s something wrong with you for recognizing that there’s something off about them.https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/top-7-ways-to-spot-a-sociopath-psychopath-or-narcissist.342/

5. Covert Backstabbing and Betrayal
Psychopaths devalue and replace others at the drop of a hat. Although you probably experienced an instant connection of trust and excitement with them, you’ll come to realize they can forge that bond with anyone. After once declaring you better than all the “crazy” people in their life, they’ll go running back to those very same people and declare you crazy. Psychopaths have no loyalty, no attachment, and no love. They leave behind a trail of destruction, and they blame their victims for it every time.

6. Turning People Against Each Other
When a psychopath enters the picture, you’ll find yourself disliking people you’ve never even met. Psychopaths are constantly whispering poison and gossip into everyone’s ears, making each person feel jealous and suspicious of the others. But they do so under a guise of innocence, using pity stories and pseudo-concern to warp your perception. Psychopaths want people distracted and in constant competition for their attention, so they seem in high-demand at all times.


Julie Mugford was GROOMED by Jeremy Bamber http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/grooming Grooming is the predatory act of maneuvering another individual into a position that makes them more isolated, dependent, likely to trust, and more vulnerable to abusive behavior

And Maggie yet again displays her hypocrisy. "It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo. 

She now chooses to not sit in judgement of Bamber but has no problem whatsoever judging JM! Yet again, pathetic and indeed shameful and clearly lacking insight.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 02:46:33 PM
On 14th August 2011 Trudi Benjamin referred to Julie Mugford as "Fugly Muggly"


"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly
"

Trudi Benjamin will in time come to realise she too has been groomed.

"Grooming is a insidious predatory tactic, utilized by abusers. Grooming is practiced by Narcissists, [ censored word]ocial predators, con-artists and sexual aggressors, who target and manipulate vulnerable people for exploitation
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/grooming
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 04:28:23 PM
Interesting to note a member of Jeremy Bamber's Campaign Team has today come out and stated:

"I have no idea whether he is innocent or guilty. But it is only right that every bit of evidence is released"



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 04:43:09 PM
Court frees three over killing of newsagent
By Andrew Buncombe Saturday 18 December 1999 00:00 GMT

"Michael O'Brien has had plenty of time to choose his words carefully. Jailed 11 years ago for a murder he always insisted he did not commit, he and two others yesterday had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal.

Michael O'Brien has had plenty of time to choose his words carefully. Jailed 11 years ago for a murder he always insisted he did not commit, he and two others yesterday had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal.

Standing outside the court yesterday, Mr O'Brien, said: "I have got mixed feelings. I am pleased that my name has been cleared but I also feel for the victim's family. We know who the real killer is - his name has been mentioned in court. It is up to the police to arrest him."

He called for a public inquiry into a series of investigations by South Wales Police, the force that arrested him and charged him with murder. His demands were supported by his barrister, Michael Mansfield QC.

"This is not the only case like this - there are more than 10," said Mr O'Brien, who, with his co-appellants, had been on bail. Mr O'Brien, 32, along with Darren Hall and Ellis Sherwood - known as the Cardiff Newsagent Three - were convicted in 1988 of the 1987 murder of newsagent Philip Saunders. Mr Saunders died in hospital five days after being attacked in his back yard in the Welsh capital by someone wielding a shovel. He was never able to identify his killer to the police.

Central to the prosecution's case at the 1988 trial was a confession made to police by Mr Hall that he had acted as a lookout for the others during a "robbery that went wrong".

During the appeal, which was ordered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), the court was told the confessions could not be relied on because Mr Hall, who was 18 at the time and has since retracted his confession, was suffering from an "anti-social personality disorder". He was prone to exaggeration - once he confessed to a robbery which took place while he was on remand for another offence
.

The prosecution's own psychiatric expert conceded that Mr Hall's admissions were "at risk of being unreliable". The hearing also raised questions about the conduct of South Wales Police, who were said by the CCRC to have shown a "systematic disregard" of interrogation rules under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.

The court was told that Mr Hall was denied access to a solicitor during crucial parts of his interrogation, which included the period when he made his admissions, and was at times handcuffed to a radiator.

Yesterday, after hearing nine days of evidence, Lord Justice Roch said he and fellow judges Mr Justice Keene and Mr Justice Astill, would give a full judgement in the New Year.

After the ruling, Mr O'Brien and Mr Hall said they would be taking civil action against the South Wales Police. Citing a series of convictions involving the same force which had been overturned on appeal in recent years, Mr O'Brien claimed that there was evidence of "institutionalised corruption".

"The only way this is going to come out is to have a full, open public inquiry. If it takes me another 10 years I am going to do it. I am going to become South Wales Police's worst nightmare," Mr O'Brien said.

Michael O'Brien and Ian Simms took their cases to the law lords in 1999

"Lord Steyn said that freedom of speech was "the lifeblood of democracy" acting "as a brake on the abuse of power by public officials".

But Mrs McCourt, whose daughter's body has not been found, said: "Prisoners should not have the privilege of contact with journalists [to] publicise either their cases, for monetary gain or to boost their egos and self esteem."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jul/09/claredyer

Mrs McCourt continues to fight for justice for her daughter whose body has sadly never been recovered
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-35092780

"Bob Woffinden's report on Ian Simms, the landlord of a Lancashire pub who was jailed for the murder of Helen McCourt ("Burden of proof", 28 January), contains certain inaccuracies and omissions which must be challenged
But the most glaring omission in Mr Woffinden's article is his failure to mention that Mr Simms's own defence counsel, Mr David Turner, had stated in October 1990 when applying for leave to appeal, that Simms was "physically strong and an expert in Thai boxing, and it could be that he never intended Miss McCourt really serious harm".

Tragically, by supporting Simms and giving him false hope, Mr Woffinden is delaying the moment when Simms finally comes to terms with what he has done. Without Woffinden's intervention, Marie McCourt could now be at peace. Simms could well have told her where Helen's remains have lain since 1988, and Marie could have been able to give her daughter the decent Christian burial which is her right.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/a-matter-of-facts-1609886.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 05:43:31 PM
Michael O'Brien and Ian Simms took their cases to the law lords in 1999

"Lord Steyn said that freedom of speech was "the lifeblood of democracy" acting "as a brake on the abuse of power by public officials".

But Mrs McCourt, whose daughter's body has not been found, said: "Prisoners should not have the privilege of contact with journalists [to] publicise either their cases, for monetary gain or to boost their egos and self esteem."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jul/09/claredyer

Mrs McCourt continues to fight for justice for her daughter whose body has sadly never been recovered
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-35092780

"Bob Woffinden's report on Ian Simms, the landlord of a Lancashire pub who was jailed for the murder of Helen McCourt ("Burden of proof", 28 January), contains certain inaccuracies and omissions which must be challenged
But the most glaring omission in Mr Woffinden's article is his failure to mention that Mr Simms's own defence counsel, Mr David Turner, had stated in October 1990 when applying for leave to appeal, that Simms was "physically strong and an expert in Thai boxing, and it could be that he never intended Miss McCourt really serious harm".

Tragically, by supporting Simms and giving him false hope, Mr Woffinden is delaying the moment when Simms finally comes to terms with what he has done. Without Woffinden's intervention, Marie McCourt could now be at peace. Simms could well have told her where Helen's remains have lain since 1988, and Marie could have been able to give her daughter the decent Christian burial which is her right.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/a-matter-of-facts-1609886.html

Michael O'Brien has yet to prove he is factually innocent. His support therefore of any case can only cause harm imo.
http://swplive.blob.core.windows.net/wordpress-uploads/S731-Report-Operations-Fortitude-and-Resolute-finalised.pdf
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 15, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
It is a surprise that none of the 3 convicted people had alibi's. One of the witnesses was apparently unreliable.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 15, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
It is a surprise that none of the 3 convicted people had alibi's. One of the witnesses was apparently unreliable.

Anti social personality disorder allegedly - also known as psychopathy

Crime does indeed seem to pay for some Adam  *&^^&

I found him abusive, narcissistic and full of self pity. Again that's my opinion of him and others may not agree. When I spoke to him, more often than not, he was stoned and all he ever spoke about was Michael O'Brien.


"A key complaint by Mr O'Brien was that Det Insp Lewis fabricated evidence - a written note of a cell conversation between him and Mr Sherwood implicating them both in the killing.
But the report said the investigation found no evidence of wrongdoing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-35050762

I err on the side of caution these days. Michael O'Brien may well have got away with murder.

Here's an earlier news article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/466372.stm
 
"Darren Hall at the time admitted being the lookout and implicated others but has since retracted that statement, blaming police pressure as one of the reasons for his confession.
He said: "The amount of pressure that was put on me by detectives, they would take me upstairs, take me downstairs, they wouldn't let me rest, they wouldn't let me have my solicitor, and it got to the point where I was at breaking point."

Individuals with anti social behaviour are renowned for blaming everyone else but themselves. Unable to take responsibility for their actions. Reminds me of when Simon Hall redacted his confession and all the excuses he made. Heard it all before.

In this news article it states O'Brien said it was "important for me" and he used the word "relative" as opposed to Mr Saunders or Philip Saunders. It's impersonal.
And it's seem the victims family weren't given much choice in the matter https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-newsagent-threes-michael-obrien-5872484
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 15, 2018, 10:23:20 PM
Anti social personality disorder allegedly - also known as psychopathy

Crime does indeed seem to pay for some Adam  *&^^&

I found him abusive, narcissistic and full of self pity. Again that's my opinion of him and others may not agree. When I spoke to him, more often than not, he was stoned and all he ever spoke about was Michael O'Brien.


"A key complaint by Mr O'Brien was that Det Insp Lewis fabricated evidence - a written note of a cell conversation between him and Mr Sherwood implicating them both in the killing.
But the report said the investigation found no evidence of wrongdoing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-35050762

I err on the side of caution these days. Michael O'Brien may well have got away with murder.

Here's an earlier news article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/466372.stm
 
"Darren Hall at the time admitted being the lookout and implicated others but has since retracted that statement, blaming police pressure as one of the reasons for his confession.
He said: "The amount of pressure that was put on me by detectives, they would take me upstairs, take me downstairs, they wouldn't let me rest, they wouldn't let me have my solicitor, and it got to the point where I was at breaking point."

Individuals with anti social behaviour are renowned for blaming everyone else but themselves. Unable to take responsibility for their actions. Reminds me of when Simon Hall redacted his confession and all the excuses he made. Heard it all before.

In this news article it states O'Brien said it was "important for me" and he used the word "relative" as opposed to Mr Saunders or Philip Saunders. It's impersonal.
And it's seem the victims family weren't given much choice in the matter https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-newsagent-threes-michael-obrien-5872484

You met Michael O'Brien ?

Doesn't a relation of Barry George also support Bamber ?  Another released criminal where no alternative suspect has been charged. These people can relate to Bamber, after having long fights for freedom themselves. Perhaps they have other reasons for supporting Bamber.

All Bamber needs now is Sion Jenkins on his side.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 15, 2018, 10:44:12 PM
You met Michael O'Brien ?

Doesn't a relation of Barry George also support Bamber ?  Another released criminal where no alternative suspect has been charged. These people can relate to Bamber, after having long fights for freedom themselves. Perhaps they have other reasons for supporting Bamber.

All Bamber needs now is Sion Jenkins on his side.

I've heard Trudi is working on OJ  8)-)))
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2018, 10:09:16 AM
I see Maggie has posted in reply to Steve_uk

Posts: 13393
Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 01:38 PM »
Quote from: Steve_uk on Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Well we all agree on something.

"Of course we do. Colin was a victim  as much as anyone. He showed tremendous courage and fortitude. One reason why I am so shocked that JM stayed a weekend in his flat with JB supposedly supporting him when she later claimed she  had known Jenemy was the killer.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9373.msg437322.html#msg437322

Probably for the same reason why I organised Hall's funeral. Maggie again shows her complete and utter lack of comprehension or understanding with regards what men like this do to their victims and the cognitive dissonance sufferered following such an experience. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7TO3aMgNs

Maggie suffers from a selective memory imo

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7980.msg379294.html#msg379294
"Hi Adam,
I do believe a cold blooded murderer has to have some kind of personality disorder, many have been abused as children themselves.  It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo. 
To me the main action is to keep the rest of society safe from such damaged and dangerous individuals so I am up to a point in agreement with Steve's suggestion of a safe island for such people.


The question here is why is Maggie focusing on JM's supposed wrong doings? The term "flying monkies" springs to mind.


7. Cognitive Dissonance
This one involves look within. When a psychopath enters your life, you’ll notice an intense and ever-increasing sense of dread and self-doubt. Your brain will struggle to reconcile the “perfect” person from the beginning, with the inappropriate behavior you’re starting to see more regularly. That’s because that perfect person never actually existed. It was a persona, created just for you. This is the hardest thing for our minds and hearts to understand.
With a psychopath, you’re always the bad one. Even though they lie, cheat, manipulate, steal, and con—you’re the one with the problem. Psychopaths have this innate ability to make you feel like there’s something wrong with you for recognizing that there’s something off about them.https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/top-7-ways-to-spot-a-sociopath-psychopath-or-narcissist.342/

5. Covert Backstabbing and Betrayal
Psychopaths devalue and replace others at the drop of a hat. Although you probably experienced an instant connection of trust and excitement with them, you’ll come to realize they can forge that bond with anyone. After once declaring you better than all the “crazy” people in their life, they’ll go running back to those very same people and declare you crazy. Psychopaths have no loyalty, no attachment, and no love. They leave behind a trail of destruction, and they blame their victims for it every time.

6. Turning People Against Each Other
When a psychopath enters the picture, you’ll find yourself disliking people you’ve never even met. Psychopaths are constantly whispering poison and gossip into everyone’s ears, making each person feel jealous and suspicious of the others. But they do so under a guise of innocence, using pity stories and pseudo-concern to warp your perception. Psychopaths want people distracted and in constant competition for their attention, so they seem in high-demand at all times.


Julie Mugford was GROOMED by Jeremy Bamber http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/grooming Grooming is the predatory act of maneuvering another individual into a position that makes them more isolated, dependent, likely to trust, and more vulnerable to abusive behavior

And Maggie yet again displays her hypocrisy. "It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo. 

She now chooses to not sit in judgement of Bamber but has no problem whatsoever judging JM! Yet again, pathetic and indeed shameful and clearly lacking insight.

Maggie today states:
"Hi Frankie as far as we are aware there are no reports of injuries to JB. There are comments by relatives short time after the murders that he had a few scars on his hands but nothing concrete and as he was a farmer that is not surprising.  Julie Mugford slept with Jeremy after the murders and although later accusing him of the murders she has never claimed to have seen any injuries on his body.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437394.html?PHPSESSID=2uufgsp53ktfo4brgggn1ep8n5#msg437394


"Nothing concrete" Maggie wasn't there so how does she know what the relatives said a short time after the murder wasn't true. Is she suggesting they lied?

Just because JM never claimed there weren't injuries to Bamber, doesn't mean he didn't have injuries.

He could have hidden them. He could have slept in long sleeved tops and pyjama bottoms, turned the lights out, for example. There has been no suggestion he slept naked for starters.

Plus, I imagine by this point JM was hyper-vigilant and in shock and her mind was all over the place. It's often not until sometime after, that victims of psychological abuse (psychological abuse following a relationship with a highly disturbed and disordered individual) recognise, with the benefit of hindsight, things they've not considered before. It's all too consuming and overwhelming to come to terms with overnight. It's a process. Some victims of this type of abuse dissociate from the traumatic events.

Maybe Bamber wore make up, a concealer of some description? Who knows. Maybe he was covered in bruises but the make up concealed them? Maybe JM didn't ever say out loud that Bamber had bruises but this doesn't mean he never had any.

Well done Adam for pointing out some of the facts.

Especially these;

There have been a lot of suggestions of third party involvement -

Crispy fired the second shot into Sheila. Suggested by Bamber.

Nevill may have said 'She' rather than 'Sheila' on the phone. Suggested by Bamber.

A hit man team carried out the massacre. Suggested by Mike.

One of the relatives carried out the massacre. Suggested by Sherlock.

Sheila and Bamber committed the massacre together.

The massacre was committed by a hunched figure seen in the area.

Sheila shot herself once downstairs and was then shot again upstairs by the police. Suggested by Mike.

Someone had a grudge against Nevill, who was a part time magistrate.

Bamber couldn't have committed the massacre alone. So had an accomplice. Who this could have been has never been suggested.

A man called Jeff Blake committed the massacre. Suggested by Mike.


It would appear Maggie is unable to recognise the error of her ways and unable to separate facts from fiction so misleads and dismisses what is put before her, by stating to Adam:

"Nice short story Adam. Your opinions are not fact"
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437399.html#msg437399

Because of Maggie's bias (and abusive behaviour) towards Adam she is too busy shooting him down and attempting to show herself as being better than Adam to recognise where she is going wrong. I did it myself once, especially with Hall's brother. Then again, so did many others.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 16, 2018, 10:23:59 AM
Is Maggie a 'supporter'?  She seemed to be when she first joined Blue and then seemed to change stance when others did. 

AE's WS's states she observed JB's arms in a short sleeve short shortly after the murders and they were mark free.

AP said he thought he saw scars on JB's hands but this was all investigated and nothing untoward was found. 

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2018, 10:28:17 AM
Is Maggie a 'supporter'?  She seemed to be when she first joined Blue and then seemed to change stance when others did. 

AE's WS's states she observed JB's arms in a short sleeve short shortly after the murders and they were mark free.

AP said he thought he saw scars on JB's hands but this was all investigated and nothing untoward was found.

Investigated when? Bambers wasn't arrested immediately after the murders.

The news reports recently of the 78 year old man who defended himself against burglars, in the process stabbing one of them to death, shows how today's policing has changed since the WHF murders. As pointed out elsewhere on the board, it's now procedure for police to arrest, question and strip search any potential suspect, no matter what the perceived circumstances.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 16, 2018, 10:34:32 AM
Investigated when?

See ground 13, point 444

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

Bet you're pleased to have me as your bestie on the forum. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2018, 10:41:18 AM
See ground 13, point 444

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

Bet you're pleased to have me as your bestie on the forum.

I'm aware of the details in the case papers, including the above Holly.

Jeremy Bamber was not arrested immediately after the murders and strip searched. Therefore any injuries he may have had on his body, were never photographed and/or accounted for. Doesn't mean there weren't any.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2018, 10:47:14 AM
Is Maggie a 'supporter'?  She seemed to be when she first joined Blue and then seemed to change stance when others did. 

AE's WS's states she observed JB's arms in a short sleeve short shortly after the murders and they were mark free.

AP said he thought he saw scars on JB's hands but this was all investigated and nothing untoward was found.

She flits between the two and is now an apparant fence sitter? This is what she states today:

"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was  If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry.  I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths.  I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437407.html#msg437407

My opinion, Maggie isn't being honest. She appears unable to be honest through fear of upsetting certain members of the blue forum. Her position as a forum moderator appears to bring her some kind of control. She has a tendency for favouritism and seems to turn on any member who doesn't support Bamber and becomes irrational towards anyone who draws to her attention the error of her ways. Bottom line, she appears unable to admit when she is in the wrong.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 16, 2018, 10:54:05 AM
I'm aware of the details in the case papers, including the above Holly.

Jeremy Bamber was not arrested immediately after the murders and strip searched. Therefore any injuries he may have had on his body, were never photographed and/or accounted for. Doesn't mean there weren't any.

I thought we were talking about his arms and hands only.

With regard to the rest of his body.  He was seen naked, bar his underpants I assume, by others in the aftermath eg CC, CC's friends and mother, the Bishops.  No one recalled marks to his body.

JM was sleeping with him and only noted spots on his willy. 

 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 16, 2018, 11:04:31 AM
She flits between the two and is now an apparant fence sitter? This is what she states today:

"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was  If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry.  I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths.  I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437407.html#msg437407

My opinion, Maggie isn't being honest. She appears unable to be honest through fear of upsetting certain members of the blue forum. Her position as a forum moderator appears to bring her some kind of control. She has a tendency for favouritism and seems to turn on any member who doesn't support Bamber.

I think all this fence sitting stuff is silly.  Fair enough if you're new to the case but if you've been around the case for a number of years and you're sitting on the fence I think it's somewhat disingenuous. 

Maggie seems to have a lot of strong views on other subjects, especially left wing politics, so why she is reticent with JB who knows. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2018, 11:21:40 AM
I think all this fence sitting stuff is silly.  Fair enough if you're new to the case but if you've been around the case for a number of years and you're sitting on the fence I think it's somewhat disingenuous. 

Maggie seems to have a lot of strong views on other subjects, especially left wing politics, so why she is reticent with JB who knows.

IMO the fence sitters we know of on blue lack the courage of their conviction. They aren't prepared to openly admit their mistakes and fear being critisised if they do.

In a matter of minutes Maggie goes from posting this:
"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was  If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry. I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths.  I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
,
To this:
"Well if 'Nevill rang Bamber-FACT then you have just lost your own argument. IF Nevill rang Jeremy then he is telling the truth.
Saying someone had an OPTION to do something simply means it's a possibility, it doesn't prove anything except that your arguments are all possibilities..... FACT."

Then Lookout posts this:
"I just despair at the anti-bombing campaigners during this last attack on the chemical factories. Left to Corbyn,thousands more children would have perished and this country would have been up in arms about it,but because the " job was done " to destroy these factories that's not right either ??
So what was it to have been ?
The difference was that the air-raids didn't attack civilians !! Corbyn would still have been dithering while children were being murdered. I found it difficult to watch such news on the children of Syria---perhaps Corbyn didn't !

It's a disgrace that the PM has to face questioning on this. Nobody questioned Blair when he took all our troops NEEDLESSLY to Iraq !!

Maggie states:
"Children are being murdered every day by bbarrel bombs and all kinds of unimaginable horrors. I have a friend who's partner is Syrian, his family are either in Idlib or Turkish refugee camps. They have heard stories and seen phone videos of absolute horror which has stopped them sleeping and functioning properly.  I haven't got the courage to look at such things and neither do most people but we do need to accept the true horror of Syria. True the bombs by Trump, May and Macron probably didn't kill anyone and chemical weapons are a scourge and illegal but people young and old will still die horribly.  We have flexed our muscles ... Jeremy Corbyn has campaigned against nuclear and chemical weapons all his life. He was against war in Iraq. Worked for peace in Ireland.  However much people may disagree with his politics I don't think anyone can condemn him for being uncaring.  The only answer to Syria is talking however difficult otherwise this will end in a world war. It is horrendously dangerous.

Then Lookout:
 It'll be far more of a dangerous situation if there is an outcry over the bombing of the factories. I think people should just hold their tongues as a sharp shock to the likes of Assad is more productive saving days/weeks of negotiating and dithering. I couldn't watch the news with those children suffering,so it has to stop.
The only other alternative is to totally ignore anything that goes on in other countries and their regimes. In fact in the Syria case,Assad's regime won't be compromised---just his methods of chemical destruction which would/could have a wider effect than just his own country. Other than that should we ever interfere in those countries which have monstrous rulers ?   Particularly places such as the Middle East.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9365.msg437327.html#msg437327


I find their behaviour interesting and very telling. Especially when considered alongside some of the comments (critisisms - I'm being generous) made by LM about many of us over the 2 boards these past few weeks.

Often the way people behave doesn't match with what they say but what they do say can often be their own psychological projections.

Maggie is a moderator of a forum supporting mass murderer Jeremy Bamber who has been tried and found guilty in a court of law; regardless of his protestations of innocence. In the eyes of the law and the majority of the public he murdered his family and two sleeping little boys (one was found deceased whilst still sucking his thumb).

These facts appear to be lost on some people or indeed appear unimportant to them.

Their behaviour comes across as self serving and they appear able to dissosociate from reality when it suits.

When Maggie states: "I haven't got the courage to look at such things and neither do most people but we do need to accept the true horror of Syria" she displays her hypocrisy. She has the courage when it suits her, to look at and comment on, for example,  the photos of the murder victims at WHF, but readily dismisses the horror of WHF and states "we do need to accept the horror of Syria." Which only goes to further highlight her quite apparent double standards. Many of us have accepted the true horror of WHF but because Maggie hasn't, and she says she doesn't know who murdered the family, she sees nothing wrong in her behaviour.


"Hypocrites are the people who try their damnedest to convey a sense of virtue, only to reveal that they’re about as deep as a puddle. Unsurprisingly, people despise hypocrisy.

“People dislike hypocrites because they unfairly use condemnation to gain reputational benefits and appear virtuous at the expense of those who they are condemning–when these reputational benefits are in fact undeserved,” explains psychological scientist Jillian Jordan of Yale University, a co-author on the study.

Another study by researchers at the University of Southern California showed that hypocrisy is made up of at least one of the following behaviors:

(1) Moral double standards occur when a person is vindictive about a perceived offensive act of someone else; yet, shows little hesitance or guilt in doing the same thing. (Example: cutting someone off in traffic.)

(2) Moral duplicity is generally the one we use to define the act. Moral duplicity is when someone claims to be honorable in their motives, but this is known to be a complete falsehood. (Example: a politician citing neutral views on an issue despite indisputable evidence to the contrary.)

(3) Moral weakness is a type of cognitive disconnect wherein a person’s beliefs or morals are trumped by their lack of self-control; thereby, they engage in the act knowing it to be wrong. (Example: a clergy member taking a vow of celibacy and then engaging in sexual acts.)

Read more here https://www.powerofpositivity.com/5-hidden-behaviors-hypocrite-displays-revealing/


HERE ARE FIVE SUCH BEHAVIORS:

1. INCONSISTENCIES
Of course, one may be inconsistent without being hypocritical. For example, an unpredictable employee who is capable of great performance may demonstrate inconsistent effort and results. They’re not hypocrites; they’re unreliable.
But hypocrites’ inconsistencies tend to be more calculated, and related more to word and deed – and this behavior gets worse as time passes. They’ll say one thing and do something else more frequently.

2. “DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO.”
High expectations of others and little to no expectations of themselves. Perhaps this is all that needs to be said. The hypocrite may be articulate and charming in their manipulative efforts, but they’ll never emulate any standard they set forth for others.
Dean Burnett, a writer for The Guardian, uses the British political scene to emphasize this point: “Where do people get off dictating how others should behave, putting restrictions on what they can say and do that they don’t adhere to themselves? It’s wrong and immoral, and shows that they can’t be trusted.” Pretty much.

3. PLAYING THE VICTIM
Make no mistake: hypocrisy and narcissism are two peas in a pod. “Like peas and carrots,” as Forrest Gump would say. Both groups of people will always try to play the victim. Never is this act so evident as when they’re caught for being in the wrong.
Hypocrites can also be quite crafty. They may use sleight of hand to shake off any blame placed their way. This “Woe is me” attitude wears quite thin after a while.

4. AN AURA OF SUPERIORITY
A hypocrite’s level of arrogance and superiority is borderline narcissistic. Attempt to engage them as equals, as you’ll likely walk away feeling like a student who has just been reprimanded by the teacher. They’ll (directly or indirectly) mock your intellect, maturity (oh, the irony!), or stability.
Similar to playing the victim, this condescending veil will wear thin as the relationship progresses. After all, when no one likes you, it’s pointless to act superior!

5. THEY START BEING NICE TO “THE RIGHT PEOPLE.”
Watch a hypocrite carefully enough, and you’ll inevitably see their two-faced attitude come to the surface. The “important” people, i.e., those with power, will bear the brunt of a hypocrite’s inauthenticity. If those “important people” are smart, they’ll dismiss the charlatan without prejudice.
You see, hypocrites like to believe that they belong to a certain “class,” despite their victim-playing, complaining, and outright lying. The only “class” to which these fraudsters belong is alongside all the other phonies.

Maggie later goes on to state:
I'm not absolutely sure Jon2 I have heard that claimed and no one has disputed it but no actual proof.

"With respect I don't believe Assad will take any notice, he is apparently reckless like his father before him and the rest of the family.    In many ways he is fighting for his life. Like Gaddafi, Saddam and others they believe they will win by crushing all before them but he is doomed just like the others. Using the Syrian people to maje a point is wrong imo.  All we can do is fight for peace by talking imo, whether it seems hopeless or not you need to keep going and never give up. Nothing is resolved by war They all have to talk in the end.

Maggie states:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths.  If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling?  Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral.


"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was  If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry. I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths.  I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2018, 03:58:26 PM
IMO the fence sitters we know of on blue lack the courage of their conviction. They aren't prepared to openly admit their mistakes and fear being critisised if they do.

In a matter of minutes Maggie goes from posting this:
"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was  If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry. I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths.  I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
,
To this:
"Well if 'Nevill rang Bamber-FACT then you have just lost your own argument. IF Nevill rang Jeremy then he is telling the truth.
Saying someone had an OPTION to do something simply means it's a possibility, it doesn't prove anything except that your arguments are all possibilities..... FACT."

Then Lookout posts this:
"I just despair at the anti-bombing campaigners during this last attack on the chemical factories. Left to Corbyn,thousands more children would have perished and this country would have been up in arms about it,but because the " job was done " to destroy these factories that's not right either ??
So what was it to have been ?
The difference was that the air-raids didn't attack civilians !! Corbyn would still have been dithering while children were being murdered. I found it difficult to watch such news on the children of Syria---perhaps Corbyn didn't !

It's a disgrace that the PM has to face questioning on this. Nobody questioned Blair when he took all our troops NEEDLESSLY to Iraq !!

Maggie states:
"Children are being murdered every day by bbarrel bombs and all kinds of unimaginable horrors. I have a friend who's partner is Syrian, his family are either in Idlib or Turkish refugee camps. They have heard stories and seen phone videos of absolute horror which has stopped them sleeping and functioning properly.  I haven't got the courage to look at such things and neither do most people but we do need to accept the true horror of Syria. True the bombs by Trump, May and Macron probably didn't kill anyone and chemical weapons are a scourge and illegal but people young and old will still die horribly.  We have flexed our muscles ... Jeremy Corbyn has campaigned against nuclear and chemical weapons all his life. He was against war in Iraq. Worked for peace in Ireland.  However much people may disagree with his politics I don't think anyone can condemn him for being uncaring.  The only answer to Syria is talking however difficult otherwise this will end in a world war. It is horrendously dangerous.

Then Lookout:
 It'll be far more of a dangerous situation if there is an outcry over the bombing of the factories. I think people should just hold their tongues as a sharp shock to the likes of Assad is more productive saving days/weeks of negotiating and dithering. I couldn't watch the news with those children suffering,so it has to stop.
The only other alternative is to totally ignore anything that goes on in other countries and their regimes. In fact in the Syria case,Assad's regime won't be compromised---just his methods of chemical destruction which would/could have a wider effect than just his own country. Other than that should we ever interfere in those countries which have monstrous rulers ?   Particularly places such as the Middle East.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9365.msg437327.html#msg437327


I find their behaviour interesting and very telling. Especially when considered alongside some of the comments (critisisms - I'm being generous) made by LM about many of us over the 2 boards these past few weeks.

Often the way people behave doesn't match with what they say but what they do say can often be their own psychological projections.

Maggie is a moderator of a forum supporting mass murderer Jeremy Bamber who has been tried and found guilty in a court of law; regardless of his protestations of innocence. In the eyes of the law and the majority of the public he murdered his family and two sleeping little boys (one was found deceased whilst still sucking his thumb).

These facts appear to be lost on some people or indeed appear unimportant to them.

Their behaviour comes across as self serving and they appear able to dissosociate from reality when it suits.

When Maggie states: "I haven't got the courage to look at such things and neither do most people but we do need to accept the true horror of Syria" she displays her hypocrisy. She has the courage when it suits her, to look at and comment on, for example,  the photos of the murder victims at WHF, but readily dismisses the horror of WHF and states "we do need to accept the horror of Syria." Which only goes to further highlight her quite apparent double standards. Many of us have accepted the true horror of WHF but because Maggie hasn't, and she says she doesn't know who murdered the family, she sees nothing wrong in her behaviour.


"Hypocrites are the people who try their damnedest to convey a sense of virtue, only to reveal that they’re about as deep as a puddle. Unsurprisingly, people despise hypocrisy.

“People dislike hypocrites because they unfairly use condemnation to gain reputational benefits and appear virtuous at the expense of those who they are condemning–when these reputational benefits are in fact undeserved,” explains psychological scientist Jillian Jordan of Yale University, a co-author on the study.

Another study by researchers at the University of Southern California showed that hypocrisy is made up of at least one of the following behaviors:

(1) Moral double standards occur when a person is vindictive about a perceived offensive act of someone else; yet, shows little hesitance or guilt in doing the same thing. (Example: cutting someone off in traffic.)

(2) Moral duplicity is generally the one we use to define the act. Moral duplicity is when someone claims to be honorable in their motives, but this is known to be a complete falsehood. (Example: a politician citing neutral views on an issue despite indisputable evidence to the contrary.)

(3) Moral weakness is a type of cognitive disconnect wherein a person’s beliefs or morals are trumped by their lack of self-control; thereby, they engage in the act knowing it to be wrong. (Example: a clergy member taking a vow of celibacy and then engaging in sexual acts.)

Read more here https://www.powerofpositivity.com/5-hidden-behaviors-hypocrite-displays-revealing/


HERE ARE FIVE SUCH BEHAVIORS:

1. INCONSISTENCIES
Of course, one may be inconsistent without being hypocritical. For example, an unpredictable employee who is capable of great performance may demonstrate inconsistent effort and results. They’re not hypocrites; they’re unreliable.
But hypocrites’ inconsistencies tend to be more calculated, and related more to word and deed – and this behavior gets worse as time passes. They’ll say one thing and do something else more frequently.

2. “DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO.”
High expectations of others and little to no expectations of themselves. Perhaps this is all that needs to be said. The hypocrite may be articulate and charming in their manipulative efforts, but they’ll never emulate any standard they set forth for others.
Dean Burnett, a writer for The Guardian, uses the British political scene to emphasize this point: “Where do people get off dictating how others should behave, putting restrictions on what they can say and do that they don’t adhere to themselves? It’s wrong and immoral, and shows that they can’t be trusted.” Pretty much.

3. PLAYING THE VICTIM
Make no mistake: hypocrisy and narcissism are two peas in a pod. “Like peas and carrots,” as Forrest Gump would say. Both groups of people will always try to play the victim. Never is this act so evident as when they’re caught for being in the wrong.
Hypocrites can also be quite crafty. They may use sleight of hand to shake off any blame placed their way. This “Woe is me” attitude wears quite thin after a while.

4. AN AURA OF SUPERIORITY
A hypocrite’s level of arrogance and superiority is borderline narcissistic. Attempt to engage them as equals, as you’ll likely walk away feeling like a student who has just been reprimanded by the teacher. They’ll (directly or indirectly) mock your intellect, maturity (oh, the irony!), or stability.
Similar to playing the victim, this condescending veil will wear thin as the relationship progresses. After all, when no one likes you, it’s pointless to act superior!

5. THEY START BEING NICE TO “THE RIGHT PEOPLE.”
Watch a hypocrite carefully enough, and you’ll inevitably see their two-faced attitude come to the surface. The “important” people, i.e., those with power, will bear the brunt of a hypocrite’s inauthenticity. If those “important people” are smart, they’ll dismiss the charlatan without prejudice.
You see, hypocrites like to believe that they belong to a certain “class,” despite their victim-playing, complaining, and outright lying. The only “class” to which these fraudsters belong is alongside all the other phonies.

Maggie later goes on to state:
I'm not absolutely sure Jon2 I have heard that claimed and no one has disputed it but no actual proof.

"With respect I don't believe Assad will take any notice, he is apparently reckless like his father before him and the rest of the family.    In many ways he is fighting for his life. Like Gaddafi, Saddam and others they believe they will win by crushing all before them but he is doomed just like the others. Using the Syrian people to maje a point is wrong imo.  All we can do is fight for peace by talking imo, whether it seems hopeless or not you need to keep going and never give up. Nothing is resolved by war They all have to talk in the end.

Then along comes Roch with:
"Isn't all this falling in to the hands of the very media we are discussing?  Former British ambassadors have gone on record in very hostile media interviews (Sky and BBC radio), questioning both the Salisbury and Douma incidents.  Where is the proof that Russia was involved in the former and Assad in the latter?  This is very point I am making.  The media are running with a narrative across the board, like it's preordained. There's no dissenting voice and any interviewee who dares to dissent is treated with contempt and mockery.

Not dissimilar to the jeremybamberforum, hey Roch
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 16, 2018, 06:20:14 PM
Then along comes Roch with:
"Isn't all this falling in to the hands of the very media we are discussing?  Former British ambassadors have gone on record in very hostile media interviews (Sky and BBC radio), questioning both the Salisbury and Douma incidents.  Where is the proof that Russia was involved in the former and Assad in the latter?  This is very point I am making.  The media are running with a narrative across the board, like it's preordained. There's no dissenting voice and any interviewee who dares to dissent is treated with contempt and mockery.

Not dissimilar to the jeremybamberforum, hey Roch

I guess forums -like all other 'families' with difficult members- are just microcosms of what goes on in the larger world
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2018, 12:34:59 PM
Is Maggie a 'supporter'?  She seemed to be when she first joined Blue and then seemed to change stance when others did. 

She did change stance. There was a time when she believed he was guilty. 

Maggie had today "totally" agreed with Roch; he states (this carries on from yesterday's posts-same thread)

Roch:"A lot has been made of a load of rubbish, imho.
(He's posted photos of SC's hands)
And there are more.  And both both Nevill and June had wounds also. 
In order to prosecute Jeremy, they first had to ensure that any evidence of a fight between Sheila / Nevill / June was ommitted.  This was done in varing ways: outright omission of wounds from the record (e.g. June's chin); attributing wounds to another cause (e.g. when the marks on Nevill's arm came to light); and passing off wounds as 'smears' or 'smearing'.
Sheila even has a mark on the outside of her forefinger (see base of finger) consistent in shape with a machined part of the Anschutz.  At trial when questioned, Peter Vanezizs claims he is not sure what this is and that from the larger photo shown in court, it may be smearing. 
How can Peter Vanezis - a pathologist with a body in front of him, not know what the mark is on the base of the forefinger of her right hand, which had been found draped across the rifle?  At that point in time, he had on the table in front of him, the corpse of the sole suspect in a multiple shooting incident.  Not just the prime suspect - the only suspect.  He even went on record in some form, expressing that he was distinctly unimpressed with DS Stan Jones' later theory that Jeremy was the killer. 
How can he then appear in a courtroom and profess not to know what the mark was?  His questioning in this matter was choreographed, imo.
Then there's the small matter of Jeremy's lack of wounds.  An inheritance killer, who using a weapon designed for shooting small mamals, attempts to kill three adults, any of whom could have fought to protect the twins.  If he sustains just one notable injury in the ensuing incident, his whole plan would collapse with immediate effect.

Maggie replies: "Well said Roch.  Totally agree

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456771#msg456771

Let's remind ourselves where it is believed these new theories came from:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5568.msg243277.html#msg243277

Quote from: justice on May 28, 2017, 08:41:AM
Hi Bill, sorry if we got carried away with your post, I really did find it interesting but just wanted more from you that's all.  We are all on a public forum and we get a bit suspicious at times, you state your ex colleagues meaning police, I too had dealings with Essex police and I sent proof to Two posters on here, I have also talked to NGB about my role and willing to send him the same proof, would it be possible for you to do the same.  I have many friends who work/worked with Essex police and I'm sure they would find your comments about them interesting.  I was not an officer by the way but I had powers. Sorry for any offence this might cause you, but keep posting which I'm sure you are.

Bill Robertson stated on: May 24, 2017, 04:22:PM
"Except that the principle of Occam's razor would confirm that the most simple explanation is that Jeremy made the call at 03:36 and PC West wrote the correct time down. Your suggestion is rather more complicated than Occam's razor would suggest?[/color=blue]http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8401.msg400060.html#msg400060

The same Bill Robertson who stated this:

PC 1990 Michael West witness statement dated 13 September 1985:-
“I then asked him to hold the line and put the call on ‘hold’. I contacted Headquarters Information Room…I was informed Police Officers had just returned to Witham and then spoke with PC Saxby at Witham Police Station. I spent about three minutes maximum speaking to Information Room and Witham Police Station and then returned to Mr Jeremy Bamber who was still on the line” [Note: He could not have spent 3 minutes maximum, it was clearly around 5 minutes minimum]
PC Robin Saxby made a witness statement dated 23 September 1985 in which he said that he spoke to PC West at 03:30 via his personal radio.
According to her witness statement of the 8th August 1985 Julie Mugford recalled:
“The next time I heard from Jeremy was by telephone again at about 3.30 am on Wednesday morning the 7th August 1985”
According to Jeremy Bamber in his witness statement dated 7th August 1985, at 03:25 he telephoned Julie Mugford and at 03:30 they had a conversation (after her flatmate Doug Dale finally managed to rouse her).
So, if the phone call from Jeremy had been just prior to 03:26, as the police claim, how could he be calling Julie Mugford at the same time as his phone call was put on hold by PC West? How could he be speaking to Mugford at 03:30 and also be speaking/on hold to PC West at 03:30, when the phone line to 9 Head Street could only send and receive one call at a time?
It is impossible for PC West to have put Jeremy’s call on hold, just prior to 03:26 and go back to Jeremy after speaking to PC Saxby at 03:30 if Jeremy was actually engaged in an entirely different telephone call with Julie Mugford between 03:25 and 03:33.
Therefore, as PC West said all along, the phone call by Jeremy to PC West happened at 03:36 and the call prior to 03:26 to PC West had to be from Nevill Bamber. Thus Jeremy is innocent.

And this http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/victim-support/support-at-the-scene/family-home-is-a-crime-ccene/media-intrusion/psychological-impact-and-implications-for-recovery/social-and-relationships/advocacy/bodies-and-funerals/dimensions-of-ptsd-and-conclusion/supplement-shock-trauma-response

According to Jeremy Bamber he is not a psychopath nor does he have any mental health problems.

Frankie stated Yesterday at 09:00 AM
"As to whether or not JM would have acted differently, maybe? I think she's got JB just where she wants him ie locked away not able to access any other woman and hopefully in her mind thinking about her every day.

David replies today: "You can run, but you can't hide. Time won't help you. Karma has no deadline 

"Karma is simply the illusion that we have limits. No more. No less
http://1meditation.com/blog/why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-karma/

I say again David, Julie Mugford was groomed by a highly disturbed and dangerous individual. She would have suffered trauma following her experiences with Bamber.

The psychological abuse and torture inflicted on JM by Bamber started the moment they met.

David states here:
"With the passage of time it would get to the point where EP have no members or living retirees with any direct involvement in the WHF tragedy. It would simply be boxes of evidence they have inherited to hold onto. The contents within would have no implications against the current generation in charge of EP. Hopefully they realise this and thus understand they have nothing to hide.

Remember this David, it was Jeremy Bamber who was on trial. It was Jeremy Bambers defence team who came to learn from a pre trial assessment he was a psychopath.

I would imagine if Julie Mugford were ever assessed following the trial, the evidence would point to her having been psychologically abused and tortured by a mass murderer

Time won't help Bamber, until such time that he confesses he will have no options available to him other than to groom further victims.

You have been groomed by Jeremy Bamber David. He has exploited your strengths and weaknesses, as he has done with all his other victims. As he once did with Julie Mugford. She had nothing to hide then and has nothing to hide now. Whether you like it or not, she held her hands up to her wrong doings and received a caution.  

"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

David then states: "I dont find the blame game very constructive. Specially if the blame is being pointed in the wrong direction

You are a hypocrite David (among other things http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8731.0.html),not dissimilar to Maggie and Lookout!
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456771#msg456771
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2018, 02:35:41 PM
You met Michael O'Brien ?

Doesn't a relation of Barry George also support Bamber ?  Another released criminal where no alternative suspect has been charged. These people can relate to Bamber, after having long fights for freedom themselves. Perhaps they have other reasons for supporting Bamber.

All Bamber needs now is Sion Jenkins on his side.

Bob Woffinden may be able to shed some light on that

The irony of this headline http://www.thejusticegap.com/2017/03/proof-magazine-media-betrays-us-daily-basis/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2018, 04:30:42 PM
I guess forums -like all other 'families' with difficult members- are just microcosms of what goes on in the larger world

It does indeed seem to appear that way April.

Today Maggie states:
"Very true Jon2 but is it worse than it always was?  I agree they appear to have not learned anything but maybe much of that is because it doesn't suit their agenda to learn.   Fake news is everywhere.

It would indeed seem Maggie has learned nothing as it appears to not suit her agenda to learn.  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2018, 05:11:36 PM
Let's face facts. Mike Tesco's forum has long since run its course. There are on average less than 30 users on any one given day. That's says it all. (I don't have the exact stats as I'm no longer a member due to a lifetime ban)  8((()*/

Mike has to make up new members in order to keep up the pretence. The handful of members left aren't really interested in Bamber or indeed the forum; it's become a place to talk about what's going on in the news or Mike Tesco or one of the other members.

The Campaign Team have failed after the "graveside rant" and "Bamber bake off." I don't think the CT amount to anymore than around 10 people. Hardly a campaign per se.

Jeremy Bambers Easter blog, like all his others before, is his way of keeping his supporters sweet so they keep topping up his pocket money. I bet he comes out with no end of excuses as to why he doesn't write more. It's what men like him do.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2018, 06:14:51 PM
I've heard Trudi is working on OJ  8)-)))

Trudi Benjamin's HERO Mike Tesco writes today: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.msg437509.html#msg437509


GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD

Sheila believed that when God spoke, he must bark like a dog, or that if she barked like a dog that God would make the firearm officers understand her and no doubt she must have ammused herself knowing that the firearms officers, understood her intention and resolve, when she took on the voice of a dog..

DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG..


And NGB, Maggie, Lookout, David, Roch and co watch on and say nothing whilst Sheila Caffell is mocked in this way  *&^^&

They are all as bad as one another as far as I'm concerned!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 18, 2018, 07:44:08 AM
Maggie today states:
"Hi Frankie as far as we are aware there are no reports of injuries to JB. There are comments by relatives short time after the murders that he had a few scars on his hands but nothing concrete and as he was a farmer that is not surprising.  Julie Mugford slept with Jeremy after the murders and although later accusing him of the murders she has never claimed to have seen any injuries on his body.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437394.html?PHPSESSID=2uufgsp53ktfo4brgggn1ep8n5#msg437394


"Nothing concrete" Maggie wasn't there so how does she know what the relatives said a short time after the murder wasn't true. Is she suggesting they lied?

Just because JM never claimed there weren't injuries to Bamber, doesn't mean he didn't have injuries.

He could have hidden them. He could have slept in long sleeved tops and pyjama bottoms, turned the lights out, for example. There has been no suggestion he slept naked for starters.

Plus, I imagine by this point JM was hyper-vigilant and in shock and her mind was all over the place. It's often not until sometime after, that victims of psychological abuse (psychological abuse following a relationship with a highly disturbed and disordered individual) recognise, with the benefit of hindsight, things they've not considered before. It's all too consuming and overwhelming to come to terms with overnight. It's a process. Some victims of this type of abuse dissociate from the traumatic events.

Maybe Bamber wore make up, a concealer of some description? Who knows. Maybe he was covered in bruises but the make up concealed them? Maybe JM didn't ever say out loud that Bamber had bruises but this doesn't mean he never had any.

Well done Adam for pointing out some of the facts.

Especially these;

There have been a lot of suggestions of third party involvement -

Crispy fired the second shot into Sheila. Suggested by Bamber.

Nevill may have said 'She' rather than 'Sheila' on the phone. Suggested by Bamber.

A hit man team carried out the massacre. Suggested by Mike.

One of the relatives carried out the massacre. Suggested by Sherlock.

Sheila and Bamber committed the massacre together.

The massacre was committed by a hunched figure seen in the area.

Sheila shot herself once downstairs and was then shot again upstairs by the police. Suggested by Mike.

Someone had a grudge against Nevill, who was a part time magistrate.

Bamber couldn't have committed the massacre alone. So had an accomplice. Who this could have been has never been suggested.

A man called Jeff Blake committed the massacre. Suggested by Mike.


It would appear Maggie is unable to recognise the error of her ways and unable to separate facts from fiction so misleads and dismisses what is put before her, by stating to Adam:

"Nice short story Adam. Your opinions are not fact"
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437399.html#msg437399

Because of Maggie's bias (and abusive behaviour) towards Adam she is too busy shooting him down and attempting to show herself as being better than Adam to recognise where she is going wrong. I did it myself once, especially with Hall's brother. Then again, so did many others.

The moderators do try to please all parties. Women, supporters, former moderators, elderly posters, posters with learning disabilities. Unfortunately I am none of these so there is no holding back on the main board towards me. That is just the way it is.

I requested assistance last week from an online moderator straight after LuminousWanderer started calling me a liar. No response was received for the next 4 hours.

When a moderator did respond,  a non abusive post I had written, 'correctly' stating LuminousWanderer's threads get very low response rates, was quoted for an unknown reason.

After 4 hours it was now too late.  There was no way LuminousWanderer was going to stop his abuse & ignored & disputed the moderators instructions, and continued to abuse.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 09:42:04 AM
Trudi Benjamin's HERO Mike Tesco writes today: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.msg437509.html#msg437509


GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD

Sheila believed that when God spoke, he must bark like a dog, or that if she barked like a dog that God would make the firearm officers understand her and no doubt she must have ammused herself knowing that the firearms officers, understood her intention and resolve, when she took on the voice of a dog..

DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG..


And NGB, Maggie, Lookout, David, Roch and co watch on and say nothing whilst Sheila Caffell is mocked in this way  *&^^&

They are all as bad as one another as far as I'm concerned!

And so it continues  *&^^& http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.15.html

Roch
"There are pages missing from Essex Constabulary scene and event logs (i.e. they have been re-written).  Cant comment on the exact reason.  However, Mrs Caffell may have been experiencing a psychotic episode during this incident
 
frankie
"Yes I read the suggestion. I personally think that even the best mimicking human still sounds like a human rather than a dog though. Would need to hear a recording (if there was one) to judge the veracity of the sounds and 'responses.'

Roch
"Yes, if true, she would have sounded like a human mimicking a dog.  The full audio tapes from the scene are never going to come to light.  Copies were apparently made but will never see the light of day.

Lookout
"Also any tape or transcript could prove whether there was any code of communication at work or just random noises.

Maggie
"Yes he was,  he was also very old.

frankie
"This is all fascinating and intriguing and the reason that I have joined this forum, so thanks. Forgive me for being on catch up but how is all of this detailed information known? Just thinking that if I'd been involved then by now I'd have blabbed to someone and this might be all over the press?  *&^^&

Mike T
"Something else of significance occurred much earlier at the scene when PS Bews, PC Myall, and Jeremy went on a recce' of the farmhouse...
It was as a result of this 'event' occurring, which may have attracted the silhouetted figure to come and stand next to the parents bedroom window, as if peering out into the grounds at the front of the farmhouse! After a couple of minutes, the silhouetted figure walked swiftly across the full opening of the bedroom window, from right to left (as viewed from the vantage point, of Bews, Myall and Jeremy), going in the general direction of an internal doorway which led from the main bedroom into the box room...
With the benefit of hindsight, it now seems almost certain that the silhouetted figure had left the main bedroom and gone to the window in the box room which was situated on a different side of the farmhouse. It would have provided the silhouetted figure with an ideal opportunity to cast a lengthy gaze over the courtyard, near the back door to the house, as well as afford a general view toward the barns and outbuildings!
What was it, which caused this activity in the mind of the silhouetted figure?
Well...
It was the dog barking, which was locked away in one of the outbuildings, the sound of the dog barking alerted the person, whoever it was, that there was someone or something milling around outside!
Jeremy would comment to the two police officers at the time, that it was strange that his father (Neville Bamber) had not responded to the barking of the dog, because apparently it would have drawn Neville from his bed to investigate! Maybe, Neville Bamber was already dead by that stage (4.02am)? If so, then who could the silhouetted figure seen at the parents bedroom window have been?
June Bamber?
Sheila Caffell?
The Assassin?
Everything now known about by Essex police in connection with this matter leads to the inevitable conclusion that the person seen could only have been a reference to Sheila Caffell!
Remember, that when PC West had asked the operator to check the line to whf, how the operator had confirmed that the phone at the scene was 'off the hook', but that a dog could be heard to be barking? Well, maybe that was not 'Crispy' the shih Tzu dog that was barking alone inside the farmhouse, in all probability that was Sheila Mimicking a dogs bark in response to the dogs at the scene barking, both inside the farmhouse, and outside inside one of the sheds! When one of the dogs had started barking, or both of them, Sheila had took up the guantlet and started barking back at that dog, or both of the dogs!
It must have felt somewhat amusing to her, after she had attacked and killed everyone that whenever she barked, firstly 'Crispy' barked back in response, and this set off a chain reaction, whereby the other dog locked away in an outbuilding also appeared to join in on que!
Sheila must have convinced herself that she could communicate in this way with both dogs!
Hence...
Why, thereafter, she refused to use the Queen's English when communicating or in a conversation with the police who eventually turned up! She decided that she would only communicate with the police by barking like a dog, she believed that by taking this approach that she was conveying her responses to not just the police, but also to both dogs!

Nigel
"Maybe the 'Beige' BT phone was in the 'Parents bedroom' off the hook.
With Neville's blood on it.
The Police needed to make a call so they moved it , the 'Beige' BT phone, to the kitchen and cleaned it after use.
The BT Open line was actually picking up sounds in the 'Parents bedroom'...

Mike T
"In a nutshell, there exists numerous references in the police accounts, of a dog barking!
These were deliberately mentioned because the police believed that it was Sheila Mimicking a barking, or a howling or a whining dog! It was her way of letting them know that she was ready to bite them if they tried to enter the farmhouse! The barks, howls and whinings which Sheila was generating alerted the police that Sheila was alive inside the house, holes up somewhere with access to an arsenal of guns and ammunitions - so, the cops bided their time, hoping that Sheila might fall asleep!
Whilst ever there came a barking, a howling, or a whining sound from within the farmhouse itself, cops knew to keep themselves back!
But, everything took at turn for the better, it seemed, when by 5.25am, the firearms team were engaged in a conversation with a person from inside the farmhouse. It was a truly bizarre state of affairs, with the firearms team bellowing instructions and orders at Sheila to give herself up and to put down any weapons and walk out of the house! In response to most of these challenges two barks echoed back to the police, which appeared to come from the direction of the parents bedroom window, 'Whoof, whoof'..
'Go to the phone', and 'use the phone to communicate with us, please'?
Not surprisingly, these requests received no responses at all, not two 'whoofs', or one...
That was until 5.55am, when the state of the farmhouse phone mysteriously altered from being off the hook, to becoming engaged!

Nigel
"The BT open line tape is key, why is it under Pii?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 09:47:37 AM
The moderators do try to please all parties. Women, supporters, former moderators, elderly posters, posters with learning disabilities. Unfortunately I am none of these so there is no holding back on the main board towards me. That is just the way it is.

I requested assistance last week from an online moderator straight after LuminousWanderer started calling me a liar. No response was received for the next 4 hours.

When a moderator did respond,  a non abusive post I had written, 'correctly' stating LuminousWanderer's threads get very low response rates, was quoted for an unknown reason.

After 4 hours it was now too late.  There was no way LuminousWanderer was going to stop his abuse & ignored & disputed the moderators instructions, and continued to abuse.

Is that what you think Adam?

I've given my opinions here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456771#msg456771
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 10:53:51 AM
The moderators do try to please all parties. Women, supporters, former moderators, elderly posters, posters with learning disabilities. Unfortunately I am none of these so there is no holding back on the main board towards me. That is just the way it is.

I requested assistance last week from an online moderator straight after LuminousWanderer started calling me a liar. No response was received for the next 4 hours.

When a moderator did respond,  a non abusive post I had written, 'correctly' stating LuminousWanderer's threads get very low response rates, was quoted for an unknown reason.

After 4 hours it was now too late.  There was no way LuminousWanderer was going to stop his abuse & ignored & disputed the moderators instructions, and continued to abuse.

What a mess Adam, I remember this:

I would also like to make the point that anyone hoping for a retrial or appeal for Jeremy Bamber would feel that the damage done by the Simon Hall is Innocent Campaign is truly terrible and to think that the Jeremy Bamber Forum has given Mrs Hall a platform to defame members of the Hall family and his ex girlfriend is unbelievable.

Pot and kettle come to mind

Lets hope that one day Ngb, Keira, Maggie, Susan etc gain a conscience one day instead of patting Mrs Hall on the back for the abuse
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4102.msg151507#msg151507

Mike Tesco's forum has helped to seal Jeremy Bambers fate and also exposed his wealth of lies. None of it can be erased, same applies to the OS.

There was a reason Bamber wanted Mike's forum shut down.

His "supporters" have unwittingly uncovered his guilt.





Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 11:34:06 AM
And so it continues  *&^^& http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.15.html

Roch
"There are pages missing from Essex Constabulary scene and event logs (i.e. they have been re-written).  Cant comment on the exact reason.  However, Mrs Caffell may have been experiencing a psychotic episode during this incident
 
frankie
"Yes I read the suggestion. I personally think that even the best mimicking human still sounds like a human rather than a dog though. Would need to hear a recording (if there was one) to judge the veracity of the sounds and 'responses.'

Roch
"Yes, if true, she would have sounded like a human mimicking a dog.  The full audio tapes from the scene are never going to come to light.  Copies were apparently made but will never see the light of day.

Lookout
"Also any tape or transcript could prove whether there was any code of communication at work or just random noises.

Maggie
"Yes he was,  he was also very old.

frankie
"This is all fascinating and intriguing and the reason that I have joined this forum, so thanks. Forgive me for being on catch up but how is all of this detailed information known? Just thinking that if I'd been involved then by now I'd have blabbed to someone and this might be all over the press?  *&^^&

Mike T
"Something else of significance occurred much earlier at the scene when PS Bews, PC Myall, and Jeremy went on a recce' of the farmhouse...
It was as a result of this 'event' occurring, which may have attracted the silhouetted figure to come and stand next to the parents bedroom window, as if peering out into the grounds at the front of the farmhouse! After a couple of minutes, the silhouetted figure walked swiftly across the full opening of the bedroom window, from right to left (as viewed from the vantage point, of Bews, Myall and Jeremy), going in the general direction of an internal doorway which led from the main bedroom into the box room...
With the benefit of hindsight, it now seems almost certain that the silhouetted figure had left the main bedroom and gone to the window in the box room which was situated on a different side of the farmhouse. It would have provided the silhouetted figure with an ideal opportunity to cast a lengthy gaze over the courtyard, near the back door to the house, as well as afford a general view toward the barns and outbuildings!
What was it, which caused this activity in the mind of the silhouetted figure?
Well...
It was the dog barking, which was locked away in one of the outbuildings, the sound of the dog barking alerted the person, whoever it was, that there was someone or something milling around outside!
Jeremy would comment to the two police officers at the time, that it was strange that his father (Neville Bamber) had not responded to the barking of the dog, because apparently it would have drawn Neville from his bed to investigate! Maybe, Neville Bamber was already dead by that stage (4.02am)? If so, then who could the silhouetted figure seen at the parents bedroom window have been?
June Bamber?
Sheila Caffell?
The Assassin?
Everything now known about by Essex police in connection with this matter leads to the inevitable conclusion that the person seen could only have been a reference to Sheila Caffell!
Remember, that when PC West had asked the operator to check the line to whf, how the operator had confirmed that the phone at the scene was 'off the hook', but that a dog could be heard to be barking? Well, maybe that was not 'Crispy' the shih Tzu dog that was barking alone inside the farmhouse, in all probability that was Sheila Mimicking a dogs bark in response to the dogs at the scene barking, both inside the farmhouse, and outside inside one of the sheds! When one of the dogs had started barking, or both of them, Sheila had took up the guantlet and started barking back at that dog, or both of the dogs!
It must have felt somewhat amusing to her, after she had attacked and killed everyone that whenever she barked, firstly 'Crispy' barked back in response, and this set off a chain reaction, whereby the other dog locked away in an outbuilding also appeared to join in on que!
Sheila must have convinced herself that she could communicate in this way with both dogs!
Hence...
Why, thereafter, she refused to use the Queen's English when communicating or in a conversation with the police who eventually turned up! She decided that she would only communicate with the police by barking like a dog, she believed that by taking this approach that she was conveying her responses to not just the police, but also to both dogs!

Nigel
"Maybe the 'Beige' BT phone was in the 'Parents bedroom' off the hook.
With Neville's blood on it.
The Police needed to make a call so they moved it , the 'Beige' BT phone, to the kitchen and cleaned it after use.
The BT Open line was actually picking up sounds in the 'Parents bedroom'...

Mike T
"In a nutshell, there exists numerous references in the police accounts, of a dog barking!
These were deliberately mentioned because the police believed that it was Sheila Mimicking a barking, or a howling or a whining dog! It was her way of letting them know that she was ready to bite them if they tried to enter the farmhouse! The barks, howls and whinings which Sheila was generating alerted the police that Sheila was alive inside the house, holes up somewhere with access to an arsenal of guns and ammunitions - so, the cops bided their time, hoping that Sheila might fall asleep!
Whilst ever there came a barking, a howling, or a whining sound from within the farmhouse itself, cops knew to keep themselves back!
But, everything took at turn for the better, it seemed, when by 5.25am, the firearms team were engaged in a conversation with a person from inside the farmhouse. It was a truly bizarre state of affairs, with the firearms team bellowing instructions and orders at Sheila to give herself up and to put down any weapons and walk out of the house! In response to most of these challenges two barks echoed back to the police, which appeared to come from the direction of the parents bedroom window, 'Whoof, whoof'..
'Go to the phone', and 'use the phone to communicate with us, please'?
Not surprisingly, these requests received no responses at all, not two 'whoofs', or one...
That was until 5.55am, when the state of the farmhouse phone mysteriously altered from being off the hook, to becoming engaged!

Nigel
"The BT open line tape is key, why is it under Pii?

Absolute bonkers! And Jeremy Bamber has kept this quiet for 33 years. Why I wonder might that be?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 12:10:58 PM
Frankie
"What of the other dogs? Where were they and how many? More intriguingly to me, where does all this info about these events come from and was Jeremy there, did he hear all this dog barking correspondence?

Mike T
"What of the other dogs? Where were they and how many? More intriguingly to me, where does all this info about these events come from and was Jeremy there, did he hear all this dog barking correspondence?
The family owned two dogs, one a house dog, the other a farmyard dog!
Jeremy was privy to the original barking of the farmyard dog, and perhaps Sheila's mimmick of the house dog, when he went on a recce' of the farmhouse along with PS Bews and PC Myall. He was not present at the scene at 5.25am, when the firearms team were engaged in a conversation with a person inside the farmhouse, because he had left the scene at that time with a uniformed PC to go to a nearby village to use the public telephone to call Julie Mugford'!
Upon his return Jeremy was kept away from the farmhouse, he was sat with PS Saxby in a patrol car (call sign CA07) which was parked up, in Pages Lane, next to the farm cottages - he was effectively out of earshot of the barking dogs, the barking Sheila, or the loud hailer requests and commands! He simply felt as though police had made contact with whoever the silhouetted figure at his parents bedroom window had been, and that the police were trying to negotiate bringing the matter to an end!

Frankie
"Thanks. Has Jeremy ever commented on this version of events apart from the moonlight/movement at window which I have read about? Also was Sheila ever known to have made animal noises while having episodes before?

Mike T
"No, he hasn't commented directly on any of this, but it is very interesting that he should comment on the switching off of, and the switching on of various lights in different rooms of the farmhouse during the police seige - since,  this could only have been possible by human intervention, the house dog couldn't have performed these tasks!
Somebody was alive inside the farmhouse at a time when Jeremy Bamber was outside in the company of the police! He therefore, couldn't,'t have killed everyone and staged his sister's death scene in possession of the rifle on his parents bedroom floor - there are similarities in this case, with the case of Derek Bentley, in that in both instances Bentley and Jeremy Bamber were alibi'd by one police officer in Derek Bentley's case, byput by several police officers in Jeremy's case!
I believe PS Bews recent account is a dishonest one, he knows they saw a person at the parents bedroom window, and he seeks to confuse the issue by making out that the window at which all the fuss is about, was the window top right, when the parents bedroom window was the window top left at the front of the farmhouse! Shouldn't a cop be able to tell his left from his right http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.msg437561.html#msg437561


Give it up Mike, you are a moron!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 18, 2018, 05:45:19 PM
LuminousWanderer has left the Blue forum. It seems after his interaction with me. Similar to David, he needs to 'man up'.

TomG left the Blue forum after interacting with me. He wasn't abusive, but used to deny saying things after I disagreed with him. It wasn't hard to quote his earlier posts that he had denied posting, as he only posted on one thread.

Nugs has just said LuminousWanderer 'seemed like a pretty sane poster' !

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 18, 2018, 06:39:25 PM
LuminousWanderer has left the Blue forum. It seems after his interaction with me. Similar to David, he needs to 'man up'.

TomG left the Blue forum after interacting with me. He wasn't abusive, but used to deny saying things after I disagreed with him. It wasn't hard to quote his earlier posts that he had denied posting, as he only posted on one thread.

Nugs has just said LuminousWanderer 'seemed like a pretty sane poster' !

Well yeah, compared to Nugs.

I am still shocked they are pretending Nigel is a real person. Even IF he was - he's posted death threats to the Bamber relatives.. What a joke.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 06:44:15 PM
Ngb states re Luminous:

"That is a pity.  I was about to ban him for sending threatening and abusive private messages.  He has also tried to register two further accounts on the forum

"He was abusive and offensive and made threats against the forum

"He had an overblown view of his knowledge and expertise on legal matters, particularly in relation to evidence.  It was impossible to reason with him, he always knew best.  In fact he legal knowledge was apparently gained from reading law books in a prison library.

"He does not like people arguing with him.



Roch: "Just a message for Luminous.  Since you have closed your account, I am unable to respond to your pms.  Hope you'll re-register at some point. Cheers.
David: "I enjoyed reading his posts on the forum. What did he say
Roch: "As a poster, he had his plus points and seemed to devour the case.  Cited a couple of other forum members as being the reason behind departure.


Roch & David aka beavis and butthead. They're a pair of sycophants brown nosers
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 06:49:02 PM
LuminousWanderer has left the Blue forum. It seems after his interaction with me. Similar to David, he needs to 'man up'.

TomG left the Blue forum after interacting with me. He wasn't abusive, but used to deny saying things after I disagreed with him. It wasn't hard to quote his earlier posts that he had denied posting, as he only posted on one thread.

Nugs has just said LuminousWanderer 'seemed like a pretty sane poster' !

"Sane" as in Jeremy Bamber sane?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2018, 06:50:22 PM
Well yeah, compared to Nugs.

I am still shocked they are pretending Nigel is a real person. Even IF he was - he's posted death threats to the Bamber relatives.. What a joke.

Agreed!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 19, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
LuminousWanderers aim was to find a way to show the conviction was unsafe.

Alternative questions put to him, he would say Bamber does not need to answer this to get a release. Although he did later give a Sheila scenario.

His posts and threads were long but didn't say much. Resulting in very low response rates.

It seems he's quickly given up trying to find a way in which the conviction is unsafe. Wisely, as Bamber hasn't found a way in the last 33 years.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 19, 2018, 10:10:58 AM
LuminousWanderers aim was to find a way to show the conviction was unsafe.

Alternative questions put to him, he would say Bamber does not need to answer this to get a release. Although he did later give a Sheila scenario.

His posts and threads were long but didn't say much. Resulting in very low response rates.

It seems he's quickly given up trying to find a way in which the conviction is unsafe. Wisely, as Bamber hasn't found a way in the last 33 years.

Luminous posted

@ Angela222

Thanks.  I've just started a thread (awaiting moderation, but I hope it will appear shortly).
I have no idea about Bamber's culpability.  My interest is in the narrow question of whether the Bamber convictions are legally safe.  The questions I have included in the new thread are intended to help me narrow things down in my own mind.

And this

Would the Forum administrators consider setting up a new sub-forum to discuss the case of Gary Dobson and Stephen Norris?
These two men were convicted of the murder of Stephen Lawrence, but there are said to be doubts about their convictions and the case is of great public interest.

As you say Adam, LM wasn't interested in innocence or guilt, their interest was in the safety of the conviction.

To my detriment, I came to learn that many of those who claim to be interested in, or supportive of, alleged MOJ'S cases aren't actually interested in the alledged victims per se but are interested in the rule of law and how it is applied (and more often than not their own self serving bias/personal agendas).

Whilst I do not disagree that our criminal justice system is flawed and indeed broken, those people who are attempting to fight back to expose the flaws, should find an alternative way in which to achieve their aims.

Luminous reminded me very much of people like Dr Sandra Lean and Billy (William) Middleton etc (and the Hall's)

Gary Dobson and David Norris Conviction an abuse of 'Due Process'
'MOJUK is not concerned with the 'innocence or guilt' of those in jail. We are concerned only that they have been brought to trial and convicted through 'due process of law'. This since its' foundation has been the corner stone of MOJUK's 'Raison d'être:
MOJUK are completely opposed to the jailing of Gary Dobson and David Norris, for the way they have been convicted is a blatant abuse of due process. The Crown Prosecution Service 16 years ago, fouled this case up in every possible way, leading to the acquittal of Dobson. New Labour had to legislate to change the law, so that they could quash the original verdict against Dobson and then charge him all over again.
Ths real culprits of the murder of Stephen Lawrence are the *Metropolitan Police, there is no dispute about their racism at the time of Stephen's murder 1993 (and many think it still persists) and that racism was their motive for doing sweet nothing to apprehend the killers 18 years ago. The Metropolitan Police that were involved at the time should be tried for culpable manslaughter.
'Double Jeopardy' a corner stone of justice in the UK that a person cannot be tried for the same offence twice, for hundreds of years, is no longer and the real victim of the decision to convict Dobson and Norris.
The forensic evidence that convicted Dobson was extremely weak, comparable with the gunpowder evidence in the Barry George trial. In general the trial could be described as the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) throwing as much shit as they could at the defendants in the hope that some of it would stick and it did.
I am sure Dobson and Norris, will appeal, if they do, and for no other reason than that their conviction was an abuse of due process, MOJUK hopes they succeed.
John O for MOJUK

* Stephen Lawrence [Met collusion with murder suspects]

Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what assessment she has made of the conduct of the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigation into the relationship between the Metropolitan Police and the families and acquaintances of suspects in the investigation into the murder of Stephen Lawrence;

(2) whether she plans to examine reports of collusion and corruption between members of the Metropolitan Police and the families and acquaintances of suspects in the investigation into the murder of Stephen Lawrence; [89117]

(3) what assessment she has made of whether reports of corruption and collusion in the investigation by the Metropolitan Police into the murder of Stephen Lawrence have been properly and fully investigated. [89175]

Nick Herbert: Allegations of corruption and collusion between members of the Metropolitan Police and families and acquaintances of suspects in the investigation into the murder of Stephen Lawrence were examined by the MacPherson inquiry. The Independent Police Complaints Commission has also investigated complaints from Neville and Doreen Lawrence. If new allegations are made, it will be for the Metropolitan Police Service and the Independent Police Complaints Commission to decide what action to take.
House of Commons / 18 Jan 2012 : Column 823W

Gary Dobson and David Norris were arrested and charged without publicity on 8 September 2010 and on 23 October 2010 the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer QC, applied to the Court of Appeal for Dobson's original acquittal to be quashed. Dobson was already in prison at the time for drug dealing.[39] Norris had not been previously acquitted, so no application was necessary in his case. Dobson's acquittal was quashed following a two-day hearing on 11 and 12 April 2011, enabling his retrial.     http://www.mojuk.org.uk/MOJUK2012/DobsonNorris.html

Further reading re Keir Starmer, joint enterprise, Stephen Lawrence murder https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2012/jan/18/joint-enterprise-gang-member

Fair trial https://englandcalling.wordpress.com/2012/01/08/stephen-lawrence-gary-dobson-david-norris-and-a-political-trial/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 20, 2018, 02:24:58 PM
Nigel's off again on the Blue forum.

Bring back LuminousWanderer.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2018, 03:18:32 PM
Nigel's off again on the Blue forum.

Bring back LuminousWanderer.

Whoever Nigel is its clear by their posts Jeremy Bamber has sent them crazy
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 20, 2018, 03:53:36 PM
Nigel only discusses the evidence with Mike.

His other posts & threads are just statements aimed at people involved in the case.

David must be wishing he could change back to hardcore guilter. But it's too late.

Unlike Susan who drifted half heartedly into guilt & innocence, David went from hardcore guilter to hardcore supporter. The only poster I know who has done this. No one has ever changed a hardcore stance twice. 

Mike, Nigel, Nugs, Roch, Lookout & David are joined at the hip and in it for the long haul. Which gives the guilters less work to do.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2018, 04:00:58 PM
Nigel only discusses the evidence with Mike.

His other posts & threads are just statements aimed at people involved in the case.

David must be wishing he could change back to hardcore guilter. But it's too late.

Unlike Susan who drifted half heartedly into guilt & innocence, David went from hardcore guilter to hardcore supporter. The only poster I know who has done this. No one has ever changed a hardcore stance 3 times.

Mike, Nigel, Nugs, Roch, Lookout & David are joined at the hip and in it for the long haul.

All crazy cowards IMO

"A coward lives in his own world, where reality is merely a passing phenomenon. He rationalizes other people’s mistakes towards him and is never in touch with reality. He takes in information and processes it in a way that only makes sense to him. https://www.enkirelations.com/signs-of-a-coward-guy.html  8((()*/


The BIGGEST coward (and Moron) of them ALL is of course MIKE TESCO! 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2018, 04:30:13 PM
All crazy cowards IMO

"A coward lives in his own world, where reality is merely a passing phenomenon. He rationalizes other people’s mistakes towards him and is never in touch with reality. He takes in information and processes it in a way that only makes sense to him. https://www.enkirelations.com/signs-of-a-coward-guy.html  8((()*/


The BIGGEST coward (and Moron) of them ALL is of course MIKE TESCO!

Mike Tesco displays all the signs of a psychopath imho. He's highly narcissist of that there is no doubt. His posts about himself are very telling and how he plays the victim. He's unable to take responsibility for his own actions. Thinks he's above the law. Numerous aliases, pathological lying. His apparent rages. Lack of remorse. All classic traits.

The DSM refers to it as [ censored word]ocial personality disorder. https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/[ censored word]ocial-personality-disorder-dsm--5-301.7-(f60.2)

"Disregard for and violation of others rights since age 15, as indicated by one of the seven sub features:
Failure to obey laws and norms by engaging in behavior which results in criminal arrest, or would warrant criminal arrest
Lying, deception, and manipulation, for profit or self-amusement,
Impulsive behavior
Irritability and aggression, manifested as frequently assaults others, or engages in fighting
Blatantly disregards safety of self and others,
A pattern of irresponsibility and
Lack of remorse for actions (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)

Comorbidity
The DSM-5 indicates that [ censored word]ocial Personality Disorder is comorbid with substance abuse disorder, and other personality disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

The consensus is there is very little in the way of effective treatment for [ censored word]ocial Personality Disorder. Individuals with APD may have to be contained by the criminal justice system, through some combination of incapacitation (incarceration), supervision and monitoring (parole, probation, or house arrest), or informal monitoring by local law enforcement to contain their harmful behaviors to others to the greatest extent possible. Some research has shown that individuals with APD do feel degrees of empathy suggesting that at the very least some form of training may be possible (Meffer, Gazzola, den Boer, Bartells, 2013). There are also cases of individuals with APD converting to religion and finding strong conviction within themselves to reform and successfully integrate with society ("Confessions of a Christian Psychopath", 2011). The role of religion and spirituality as a possible treatment for APD is not well studied, and future research is warranted.
Incarceration may not be an effective deterrent to the [ censored word]ocial individual, as those with APD have difficulty learning from mistakes, are rigid in decision making, and are typically unresponsive to punishment (De Brito, Viding, Kumari, Blackwood, and Sheilagh, 2013). A primary reason that individuals with APD are often non responsive to punishment and deterrence is an inner belief system that views constraints and consequences as a rudimentary function of society, a group which they do not see themselves a part of.  The [ censored word]ocial may see themselves as existing above or beyond society, and thus their existence need not be confined to society's limitations and restraints; and on the contrary, those limitations and restraints are best utilized when exploited to the full advantage of the individual. As a result, for many with APD, incarceration may only serve to reinforce their primary belief system and have little effect towards future deterrence. 
The DSM- 5 as well as other sources note that individuals with APD may cease behavioral expression of their [ censored word]ocial belief system in their 40's (American Psychiatric Association, 2013) although this is inconclusive.  Other sources argue that [ censored word]ocials become too emotionally battered from a long term resisting of society and accumulate physical injuries from a lifestyle of neglect of medical and dental care, untended injuries, and drug and alcohol abuse.  This eventual emotional depletion may result in the [ censored word]ocial reducing destructive behavior or criminal activity simply due to being no longer physically capable.   But even in this case, the individual will still retain an [ censored word]ocial belief system in their day to day dealings with others, and may hide their behavior better through practice effects- learning to be more subtle and not draw attention to themselves and risk arrest or other containment. A specific form of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) called CSC (Cognitive Self Change) based on Samenow and Yochelson's seminal work with offenders has documented marginal success at modifying the behavior of violent offenders, both [ censored word]ocial and otherwise (Barbour, 2013; Powell, & Sadler, n.d. ).
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Trudi Benjamin's HERO Mike Tesco writes today: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.msg437509.html#msg437509


GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD

Sheila believed that when God spoke, he must bark like a dog, or that if she barked like a dog that God would make the firearm officers understand her and no doubt she must have ammused herself knowing that the firearms officers, understood her intention and resolve, when she took on the voice of a dog..

DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG..


And NGB, Maggie, Lookout, David, Roch and co watch on and say nothing whilst Sheila Caffell is mocked in this way  *&^^&

They are all as bad as one another as far as I'm concerned!

I found this link on Mike Tesco http://jerseyabusescandal.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/turning-nasty-on-bamber-forum.html  Does anyone know who wrote it or if the claims are true? It was written in 2011 apparently.


Phone call from Jeremy, 4pm, today, 25th February 20011
"I received an unexpected call from Jeremy this afternoon, which I received at about 4pm, on my drive back from London. He said he wanted to talk to me about someone who had contacted him, using the name of HorseyDave, who sent Jeremy some document or other. Anyway, Jeremy got in touch with his campaign team, with a view to verifying that the document HorseyDave sent to him, was genuine. It turns out that it was faked, and that HorseyDave had edited parts out and included his own parts in. Jeremy says he needed to speak to me about it, because it was not healthy having someone like that claiming to know the family, and intent of trying to stir up a load of trouble. Jeremy told me that HorseyDave, or aka Johnson, has never worked on the farm, and that he has never been driving the tractor. Jeremy also says that the story HorseyDave made up about the gun cabinet is false, because there never was a gun cabinet at whf. Furthermore, Jeremy says there was never any aircraft landing lights found on their land, but the police or somebody did find a couple of lanterns which had been discarded in a nearby field - these were never recovered in connection with any drug investigation, but rather they were found as part of the investigation into the shootings at whf...
Jeremy says that he is being kept updated on a daily basis about the content of what is being discussed and that he will speak out if anyone  makes claims about knowing the family, and working at the farm around the time of the shootings. Jeremy thinks the relatives have put HorseyDave up to saying the things he is coming out with, and who knows this could be true or not...
In the Bamber files, there is mention of the police finding two lanterns in a hedgerow of one of the fields belonging to whf. From inquiries made by Essex police at the time, these two lanterns were normally kept in the kitchen at whf, and it is suspected that the two children took these out to play with them, and left them near the edge of a field - I don't actually know if this account is true, I am only reporting the facts which are documented along these lines, in the police file...
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,395.0.html


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.msg16312#msg16312

"In Mike Tesco's own words:
For the record, I have never shared a cell with Jeremy Bamber, I was merely in the same maximum security prison as he was, on the same wing, in the cell next door to him.
Although, I did spend Christmas dinner (December 1989) in his cell with him for a period of about four hours.
In the main I spoke to Jeremy a lot about his case whenever we had the opportunity, both during the day when we were studying on university courses and evening in our recreation time.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.msg16319#msg16319

What university courses is Mike Tesco referring to and can he provide evidence for these claims and why was he in the same prison as Jeremy Bamber? It has been claimed he was there for his own protection?

"Death of Mike Tesko, a suicide -  to be investigated by South Yorkshire police
South Yorkshire police are today looking into the circumstances surrounding the death of Michael Teskowski, who was found dead at his home address today. Police say that photographs contained on a digital camera found next to his body showed evidence that he had drunk a full bottle of whiskey within a space of about half an hour, and boxes of tablets believed to have been prescribed as medication in connection with illness he suffered from...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 09:37:PM by mike tesko »

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2769.0

https://www.southyorkshiretimes.co.uk/news/crime/court-round-up-latest-convictions-at-doncaster-barnsley-sheffield-and-rotherham-magistrates-courts-1-7828859

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3945.0.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2018, 02:08:11 PM
Mike Tesco displays all the signs of a psychopath imho. He's highly narcissist of that there is no doubt. His posts about himself are very telling and how he plays the victim. He's unable to take responsibility for his own actions. Thinks he's above the law. Numerous aliases, pathological lying. His apparent rages. Lack of remorse. All classic traits.

The DSM refers to it as [ censored word]ocial personality disorder. https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/[ censored word]ocial-personality-disorder-dsm--5-301.7-(f60.2)

"Disregard for and violation of others rights since age 15, as indicated by one of the seven sub features:
Failure to obey laws and norms by engaging in behavior which results in criminal arrest, or would warrant criminal arrest
Lying, deception, and manipulation, for profit or self-amusement,
Impulsive behavior
Irritability and aggression, manifested as frequently assaults others, or engages in fighting
Blatantly disregards safety of self and others,
A pattern of irresponsibility and
Lack of remorse for actions (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)

Comorbidity
The DSM-5 indicates that [ censored word]ocial Personality Disorder is comorbid with substance abuse disorder, and other personality disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

The consensus is there is very little in the way of effective treatment for [ censored word]ocial Personality Disorder. Individuals with APD may have to be contained by the criminal justice system, through some combination of incapacitation (incarceration), supervision and monitoring (parole, probation, or house arrest), or informal monitoring by local law enforcement to contain their harmful behaviors to others to the greatest extent possible. Some research has shown that individuals with APD do feel degrees of empathy suggesting that at the very least some form of training may be possible (Meffer, Gazzola, den Boer, Bartells, 2013). There are also cases of individuals with APD converting to religion and finding strong conviction within themselves to reform and successfully integrate with society ("Confessions of a Christian Psychopath", 2011). The role of religion and spirituality as a possible treatment for APD is not well studied, and future research is warranted.
Incarceration may not be an effective deterrent to the [ censored word]ocial individual, as those with APD have difficulty learning from mistakes, are rigid in decision making, and are typically unresponsive to punishment (De Brito, Viding, Kumari, Blackwood, and Sheilagh, 2013). A primary reason that individuals with APD are often non responsive to punishment and deterrence is an inner belief system that views constraints and consequences as a rudimentary function of society, a group which they do not see themselves a part of.  The [ censored word]ocial may see themselves as existing above or beyond society, and thus their existence need not be confined to society's limitations and restraints; and on the contrary, those limitations and restraints are best utilized when exploited to the full advantage of the individual. As a result, for many with APD, incarceration may only serve to reinforce their primary belief system and have little effect towards future deterrence. 
The DSM- 5 as well as other sources note that individuals with APD may cease behavioral expression of their [ censored word]ocial belief system in their 40's (American Psychiatric Association, 2013) although this is inconclusive.  Other sources argue that [ censored word]ocials become too emotionally battered from a long term resisting of society and accumulate physical injuries from a lifestyle of neglect of medical and dental care, untended injuries, and drug and alcohol abuse.  This eventual emotional depletion may result in the [ censored word]ocial reducing destructive behavior or criminal activity simply due to being no longer physically capable.   But even in this case, the individual will still retain an [ censored word]ocial belief system in their day to day dealings with others, and may hide their behavior better through practice effects- learning to be more subtle and not draw attention to themselves and risk arrest or other containment. A specific form of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) called CSC (Cognitive Self Change) based on Samenow and Yochelson's seminal work with offenders has documented marginal success at modifying the behavior of violent offenders, both [ censored word]ocial and otherwise (Barbour, 2013; Powell, & Sadler, n.d. ).

What's the betting this is the same moron who owns the jeremybamberforum

"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 21, 2018, 02:55:19 PM
What's the betting this is the same moron who owns the jeremybamberforum

"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0

This is the same Mike Tescowski.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2018, 02:59:53 PM
This is the same Mike Tescowski.

I know  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2018, 11:53:55 PM
Expose the b........ ngb! It won't help Jeremy Bamber but it WILL make you feel a whole lot better 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 10:48:13 AM
Expose the b........ ngb! It won't help Jeremy Bamber but it WILL make you feel a whole lot better 8((()*/

Interesting though that the jeremybamberforum is down to around 10 posters a day and ngb has decided to bring this up. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9398.0.html

Ngb states: "I have not revealed what I know and others here have also maintained confidences, but frankly this character should be exposed."

Reminds me a bit of David's FEB (as Holly refers to it).

Why now? Why bring this up when the forums dead? And why keep turning a blind eye to the quite apparent psychopath Mike Tesco, and others?

It's clear David started the thread in order to take the heat off himself because Holly has further exposed his sneaky, irrational behaviour.

David, you should have listened to your dad and gone to the newspapers. Your credibility is nought!

Actions speak louder than words ngb, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows this. Will be interesting however to see where this all leads or whether it's another ploy; like David's FEB.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 01:07:36 PM
LuminousWanderer was just frustrated that I had ripped apart his 'Sheila scenario' & then provided a source regarding Nevill being shot 4 times upstairs,  which destroyed his scenario further.

So focused on me, even creating a very abusive thread which was deleted. He will be banned if he behaves like that again, on either forum. However I rarely post on his threads.

To be fair other supporters focus on the poster if frustrated. David using his abusive images or 'gish gash' posts & Roch calling posters a 'tw..' as he did twice on Friday, or telling them to 'f--- off'.

Wasn't PH (Aka Mason Doyle) also banned from threatening the blue forum Adam?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 01:48:11 PM
What's the betting this is the same moron who owns the jeremybamberforum

"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0

So what's the back story on how ngb hooked up with Mike Tesko?

Does anyone know?

How did these 2 meet?

Did ngb know Mike Teskowski was a convicted fraudster with a criminal history spanning decades?

Did he know Mike Tesco was a highly disordered individual?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 23, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
Interesting though that the jeremybamberforum is down to around 10 posters a day and ngb has decided to bring this up. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9398.0.html

Ngb states: "I have not revealed what I know and others here have also maintained confidences, but frankly this character should be exposed."

Reminds me a bit of David's FEB (as Holly refers to it).

Why now? Why bring this up when the forums dead? And why keep turning a blind eye to the quite apparent psychopath Mike Tesco, and others?

It's clear David started the thread in order to take the heat off himself because Holly has further exposed his sneaky, irrational behaviour.

David, you should have listened to your dad and gone to the newspapers. Your credibility is nought!

Actions speak louder than words ngb, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows this. Will be interesting however to see where this all leads or whether it's another ploy; like David's FEB.

Not sure how slagging off PH will further the Jeremy Bamber fight. His influence on the Bamber case is almost non-existent. It does, of course, allow old feuds and grudges to be brought to the fore  Almost like someone enjoys lighting the blue touch paper. This isn't the first time he's been dragged out of retirement, nor will it be the last. He's a handy tool I guess and some have learned how to use it to their best advantage!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 02:04:02 PM
Not sure how slagging off PH will further the Jeremy Bamber fight. His influence on the Bamber case is almost non-existent. It does, of course, allow old feuds and grudges to be brought to the fore  Almost like someone enjoys lighting the blue touch paper. This isn't the first time he's been dragged out of retirement, nor will it be the last. He's a handy tool I guess and some have learned how to use it to their best advantage!

I agree Caroline!

However, David has a quite apparent history of "slagging" people off!

Fancy alledgedly finding the address for Geoffrey Rivlin QC and debating with others whether or not to pop round and drop off his forensic evidence breakthrough. Now I bet he didn't discuss that with his dad!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on April 23, 2018, 02:30:40 PM
So what's the back story on how ngb hooked up with Mike Tesko?

Does anyone know?

How did these 2 meet?

Did ngb know Mike Teskowski was a convicted fraudster with a criminal history spanning decades?

Did he know Mike Tesco was a highly disordered individual?

I've often wondered why Nelly is so very desperate for the approbation of a handful of fruitcakes. If I had his dosh (and time) I'd have a monkey farm.      8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 03:41:17 PM
Buddy's experiencing de ja vous.

Is he just playing along with Mike or does he really have no idea why Nigel was temporarily sent packing the day before?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 04:28:14 PM
24th July 2017 - Poppy Ann Miller states:

This review is from: The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (Kindle Edition)

"Apart from the unnecessarily lengthy background to White House Farm which had little to do with the Bamber family, the book omits crucial points and full statements by friends and documented police evidence is simply reduced to hearsay. The account of the electrician being attacked by Sheila is dismissed as fiction - but it is a fact. The author appears to have had quite an in-depth conversation with the twins' father, Colin Caffell but no mention of his pending letter to Nevill Bamber on his concerns about Sheila's behaviour and the safety of their children; no mention of social workers reports of bruises, burns cuts and grazes on the boys, or statements from foster carers and teachers in the same vein - all omitted. The author shows her inexperience in mental health and social working practise in that she states that Social Workers arranged extra child care so that Sheila could go to work. This never was or is the case, children are removed from parents' care due to concerns for the children. Although Sheila's best friend Farhad Emami (Freddie) is cited, no mention is made of the fact that he made a statement confirming that he witnessed Sheila's violence, which left him terrified for his own safety and that of others to such an extent that he had to call Nevill who arranged for her admission to a psychiatric unit. Freddie made a statement to that effect but it was omitted from the hearing. I am only left wondering as to the authors motivation for writing the book  %56&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 23, 2018, 04:43:14 PM
24th July 2017 - Poppy Ann Miller states:

This review is from: The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (Kindle Edition)

"Apart from the unnecessarily lengthy background to White House Farm which had little to do with the Bamber family, the book omits crucial points and full statements by friends and documented police evidence is simply reduced to hearsay. The account of the electrician being attacked by Sheila is dismissed as fiction - but it is a fact. The author appears to have had quite an in-depth conversation with the twins' father, Colin Caffell but no mention of his pending letter to Nevill Bamber on his concerns about Sheila's behaviour and the safety of their children; no mention of social workers reports of bruises, burns cuts and grazes on the boys, or statements from foster carers and teachers in the same vein - all omitted. The author shows her inexperience in mental health and social working practise in that she states that Social Workers arranged extra child care so that Sheila could go to work. This never was or is the case, children are removed from parents' care due to concerns for the children. Although Sheila's best friend Farhad Emami (Freddie) is cited, no mention is made of the fact that he made a statement confirming that he witnessed Sheila's violence, which left him terrified for his own safety and that of others to such an extent that he had to call Nevill who arranged for her admission to a psychiatric unit. Freddie made a statement to that effect but it was omitted from the hearing. I am only left wondering as to the authors motivation for writing the book  %56&

There are quote a few rants from supporters involved in the CT on Amazon. Quite funny really!! I wonder if Poppy would like to post the statement from the (errr) electrician cuz no one else has been able to find it! If it exists, one of youy lot MUST have seen it and have access to it ......... post it and PROVE IT!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 04:52:08 PM
There are quote a few rants from supporters involved in the CT on Amazon. Quite funny really!! I wonder if Poppy would like to post the statement from the (errr) electrician cuz no one else has been able to find it! If it exists, one of youy lot MUST have seen it and have access to it ......... post it and PROVE IT!

This is highly alarming IMO. Do the Essex Partnership University NHS Trust actually know Poppy Ann Miller supports and campaigns for a mass murdering psychopath? https://eput.nhs.uk/about-us/council-of-governors/


http://poppyannmiller.blogspot.co.uk
My Mental Health Years:
Over the past thirty plus years I have worked in a variety of therapeutic roles with many people with varying degrees of mental ill health, from stress and anxiety, mild, low-mood to the deepest black hole of severe depression and suicidal thoughts; within a residential community, Social Services and the National Health Service and continue in my private counselling practise.  I use an integrative model, depending on the client though favour a psychodynamic approach, that is, making the unconscious, conscious, as so much of who we are today stems from our early, often repressed, suppressed, formative years.  Am currently a publicly elected governor with Essex Partnership University NHS Trust.

The residential community I first worked with was, at the time, one of only two of its kind in the country, the other being The Richmond Fellowship who delivered much of our training and supervision.  The aim was to work in innovative ways with residents, ‘community members’.

I was new to residential and no doubt naive having been thrown in the deep end but I could see that a number of staff appeared to have more ‘issues’ than the residents.  My ‘supervisor’ was a trained nurse though had not worked in that role for several years and had no mental health training.  Never-the-less I learnt a lot in my three years with them and have some fond memories of both staff and community members.

Matthew:  All names have been changed.
After several months I was relieved to be allocated a new supervisor who was experienced, respectful and supportive of my ways of working and my perspective.  She had been in a team who were trying to work with alternate ways of helping clients who hear ‘voices’.  Examples; to try not to ‘own’ the voices as in, ‘my’ voices and whether responding to ‘voices’, rather than trying to block them out, could be therapeutic.  Matthew wanted to give it a try.

He was in his thirties, visited family most weekends and had said that walking across the field and alongside a lake to the bus station was when his ‘attacks’ were at their worse.  The following Friday evening as usual as he walked he was drawn to the water and the voices began telling him to jump in.  Matthew had explained that the terror of not obeying the voices had been worse than the fear of drowning but this time, instead of trying to block them with his hands over his ears, he replied,
‘No!  I’m going home’.  Then turning to me he said, ‘And I realised it was a load of bollocks.  You know?  What they were saying, if my mate had told me to do that I’d have told him to f..k off!'

He went on to say that it was as if a door had opened and he could choose to step through or stay locked inside.  Of course it was not all plain-sailing but Matthew left the community a few months later a much freer and peaceful man.

Clarissa:
Abused and violated on many levels and who, when I resigned, presented me with a pair of Indian cotton trousers; purples, blues and turquoise which she had bought from a charity shop.  I don’t wear second-hand clothes, repercussions of being a kid and wearing everyone else’s but I did wear those trousers and still do.  That was over 25 years ago.

Alim:
‘You cannot keep birds from flying over your head
but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair’.

One of Alim’s favourite quotations, though he spoke very little, well, in the presence of staff anyway.

In his early twenties, Alim still looked boyish - fragile - slight.  His controlled food intake and exercise regime meant that he walked miles daily so was outside the community setting for many hours at a time.  I'd rather not read case-notes extensively unless of course I need to know of any risks, preferring the person to confide in me if and when they want to though I knew Alim had been abused repeatedly by a paedophile ring before he came to England.  We would often spend our allocated sessions in silence which became easier for me with more practice and I could relax and ‘be’ not ‘do’, more recently known as ‘mindfulness’.  Never-the-less I felt I was letting Alim down, maybe he needed someone more skilled, more experienced than myself?  He offered no response when I told him I was leaving and did not attend my leaving ‘do’.  Several weeks later I received an envelope with a post-mark I recognised.  Inside, a silk painting had been stuck to a piece of folded card with the words, ‘Thank you, I will miss you.’  Inside they continued, ‘I was always too frightened to get close to anyone….but I really love you…’  Still brings a lump to my throat.

It was not all success, there was the time when a community member threw a coke bottle at me because I had stood in front of the TV and learning the invaluable lesson of never telling anyone to ‘calm down’ after being drenched with a mug of tea, fortunately only luke warm.

I have developed further ‘tools’ for clients who find it difficult to verbally express their feelings, either due to never being allowed a ‘voice’ or for those who struggle to find the ‘right’ words.  Always their choice of course; we have worked with drawings, dreams, toys, buttons, clothing, stress bucket!

Working with clients is a two way thing.  Not in the counselling sense of ‘projection’ or ‘transference’, more in that if we aim to be really present with our client, we learn things about ourselves also.  Two people may appear to be sitting in silence but there is often cacophony in the room.  It was partly experience gained in that therapeutic community that set me on the path of alternate ways of working.  Although Carl Rogers is always associated with the client centred model, in my opinion, congruence and unconditional, positive regard is essential in all therapeutic relationships and may provide a conducive environment for the deepest revelations.

Leah:
We worked together in my role as Family Group Conference Facilitator Mental Health.  Leah had attempted suicide several times.  An intelligent woman who had been teaching in Higher Education until she became unwell.

Leah had developed compulsive disorders and was also becoming violent towards her husband.  My role was to meet with her and help her plan her ‘conference’.  I would then contact the family members and friends she had invited and meet with them if they wanted to be involved.

Family Group Conferencing is an invaluable service.  Provides opportunity - and permission - for all participants to put a face to a name, share feelings, suggestions and agree boundaries; providing a framework of security around the service user.  The process also gives opportunity to air the myths around mental illness; for example, ‘suicide attempts or self harm are merely cries for help’.

It was once thought to be the case that if a sufferer speaks about suicide then they would not carry out the act but that is a false theory.  Through my experience I am persuaded that the majority of those who suffer in this way do not want to die, they just cannot carry on living.  Often these very intelligent, gifted sufferers have formed their own diagnosis, prognosis and course of treatment and appear to have made the decision to end their life with a 'sound mind’.  Hard to understand, it almost appears to be a different aspect of mental illness - possibly requiring an independent or additional diagnosis but…I am not a clinician.

I was speaking with a company director about my work and he said that even though he is on the board of a mental health committee, he actually finds the topic frightening.  I suspect that most people who work outside the field only consider severe conditions, such as psychosis and schizophrenia as mental illness, when in reality, addiction to alcohol, shopping, food, social media, are also examples of symptoms of mental health imbalance to a greater or lesser degree.

Regardless of background, status, age or gender, mental health is a common denominator and statistics show mental ill health as a growing problem, with anxiety and depression reported as the most prevalent condition.  At a time when funding is being cut from many services this can be a challenge, however promoting mental health awareness does not need to be costly and I feel it is time to add ‘mental health awareness and well-being’ to the school curriculum and encourage larger companies to include mental health awareness in their induction process.

Hopefully adopting these practises will assist with normalising the topic, allowing discussion to be frank and feel less threatening and preventing feelings of isolation
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 05:07:28 PM
Poppy Ann Miller states:

"I was new to residential and no doubt naive having been thrown in the deep end but I could see that a number of staff appeared to have more ‘issues’ than the residents. My ‘supervisor’ was a trained nurse though had not worked in that role for several years and had no mental health training.  Never-the-less I learnt a lot in my three years with them and have some fond memories of both staff and community members


I'd like to hear what Poppy Ann Miller knows about narcissism and psychopathy!

IMO, It's because of people like Ms Miller that our mental health service fails so many vulnerable individuals!

Shame on her with her self serving BS!

Her confirmation bias knows know bounds, as can be seen by her pathetic and pointless blogs!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 05:20:40 PM
Poppy Ann Miller states:

"I was new to residential and no doubt naive having been thrown in the deep end but I could see that a number of staff appeared to have more ‘issues’ than the residents. My ‘supervisor’ was a trained nurse though had not worked in that role for several years and had no mental health training.  Never-the-less I learnt a lot in my three years with them and have some fond memories of both staff and community members


I'd like to hear what Poppy Ann Miller knows about narcissism and psychopathy!

IMO, It's because of people like Ms Miller that our mental health service fails so many vulnerable individuals!

Shame on her with her self serving BS!

Her confirmation bias knows know bounds, as can be seen by her pathetic and pointless blogs!

I wonder what the board of directors would have to say at the EPUT NHS?
https://eput.nhs.uk/newly-elected-governors-eput/

This BS needs exposing: How many of her colleagues support Jeremy Bamber?

"Newly Elected Governors for EPUT
July 5, 2017
Results from the recent Council of Governors elections, has been published by the Electoral Reform Services. There are 23 public Governors and three staff Governors for the newly created Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (EPUT).
This is the first Governor Elections since the merger between North Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (NEP) and South Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (SEPT).
Governors act as representatives for their constituencies and the public, hold the Trust to account and get involved in the development of health services in the county.
Sally Morris, Chief Executive of EPUT said: “Governors play a vital role in how we develop health services here in Essex. They hold us to account and represent the views of their constituents. As a newly formed Trust, it was important that we get the right governance arrangements in place as soon as possible. Congratulations to all the elected Governors. I look forward to working with you all, both staff as well as public Governors; you contribute to helping us deliver high quality care to the people of Essex.”
Both NEP and SEPT were providers of mental health, substance misuse services and a wide range of community based services. The Trusts merged to form EPUT on 1 April 2017.
The following have been elected as Governors for Mid and South Essex:

James Clarke

Poppy Ann Miller




The ESSEX press would have a field day if they learned about this!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 05:51:40 PM
24th July 2017 - Poppy Ann Miller states:

This review is from: The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (Kindle Edition)

"Apart from the unnecessarily lengthy background to White House Farm which had little to do with the Bamber family, the book omits crucial points and full statements by friends and documented police evidence is simply reduced to hearsay. The account of the electrician being attacked by Sheila is dismissed as fiction - but it is a fact. The author appears to have had quite an in-depth conversation with the twins' father, Colin Caffell but no mention of his pending letter to Nevill Bamber on his concerns about Sheila's behaviour and the safety of their children; no mention of social workers reports of bruises, burns cuts and grazes on the boys, or statements from foster carers and teachers in the same vein - all omitted. The author shows her inexperience in mental health and social working practise in that she states that Social Workers arranged extra child care so that Sheila could go to work. This never was or is the case, children are removed from parents' care due to concerns for the children. Although Sheila's best friend Farhad Emami (Freddie) is cited, no mention is made of the fact that he made a statement confirming that he witnessed Sheila's violence, which left him terrified for his own safety and that of others to such an extent that he had to call Nevill who arranged for her admission to a psychiatric unit. Freddie made a statement to that effect but it was omitted from the hearing. I am only left wondering as to the authors motivation for writing the book  %56&

Has anyone read Poppy Ann Millers book? I'm would be interested to learn if her book is based on her own life story?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bed-Black-Flowers-Diary-Unwelcomed-ebook/dp/B0151ZMGMI/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1443435186&sr=1-1&keywords=Bed+of+Black+Flowers%20-%20reader_B0151ZMGMI
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 23, 2018, 06:17:10 PM
'which moves me onto the intelligence I received from my informant - about Ralph Neville! '

------------

I wonder who Mike's informant is,  that he mentioned today ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 06:20:09 PM
'which moves me onto the intelligence I received from my informant - about Ralph Neville! '

------------

I wonder Mike's informant is,  that he mentioned today ?

Poppy Ann Miller?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
There are quote a few rants from supporters involved in the CT on Amazon. Quite funny really!! I wonder if Poppy would like to post the statement from the (errr) electrician cuz no one else has been able to find it! If it exists, one of youy lot MUST have seen it and have access to it ......... post it and PROVE IT!

There's another blatent hypocrite in our midst Caroline

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/9795068.Maldon__[ censored word]ocial_behaviour_putting_town_s_reputation_on_the_line/

You really couldn't make this BS up if you tried


"Maldon's reputation is being marred by constant vandalism and [ censored word]ocial behaviour, according to two women on the verge of being driven out of their homes.

Poppy-Ann Miller, 67, who has lived in Butt Lane for 15 years, alleges the problems are plaguing streets across the town.

She said: “I love Maldon. I don’t want to move. I’m five minutes from the shops, five minutes from the water, five minutes from the pubs. It’s got history and it’s a lovely town.

“It’s just a shame that such a beautiful place is gaining such a terrible reputation and nothing I can see seems to be being done about it.


“It’s awful to have to go to bed with one eye and one ear open just in case.”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 23, 2018, 06:28:39 PM
Poppy Ann Miller?


Why is her name linked to Poppy Meze? I ask because I recall seeing that name connected with a book on astrology many years ago.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on April 23, 2018, 06:31:43 PM
'which moves me onto the intelligence I received from my informant - about Ralph Neville! '

------------

I wonder who Mike's informant is,  that he mentioned today ?
     


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEoY30cMvc



       





 








 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 23, 2018, 06:44:23 PM
     


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEoY30cMvc



       





 








 

I can't breathe!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 23, 2018, 06:50:36 PM

Why is her name linked to Poppy Meze? I ask because I recall seeing that name connected with a book on astrology many years ago.

Because it's the same person.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 23, 2018, 07:00:04 PM
Because it's the same person.


Ooh! Maybe she drew up a natal chart for Jeremy and misinterpreted it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 07:01:14 PM
https://eput.nhs.uk/about-us/council-of-governors/public-governors/public-governors-for-essex-mid-and-south/poppy-ann-miller/


I can just imagine what this will say once it's updated  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 07:21:15 PM
I wonder what the board of directors would have to say at the EPUT NHS?
https://eput.nhs.uk/newly-elected-governors-eput/

This BS needs exposing: How many of her colleagues support Jeremy Bamber?

"Newly Elected Governors for EPUT
July 5, 2017
Results from the recent Council of Governors elections, has been published by the Electoral Reform Services. There are 23 public Governors and three staff Governors for the newly created Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (EPUT).
This is the first Governor Elections since the merger between North Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (NEP) and South Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (SEPT).
Governors act as representatives for their constituencies and the public, hold the Trust to account and get involved in the development of health services in the county.
Sally Morris, Chief Executive of EPUT said: “Governors play a vital role in how we develop health services here in Essex. They hold us to account and represent the views of their constituents. As a newly formed Trust, it was important that we get the right governance arrangements in place as soon as possible. Congratulations to all the elected Governors. I look forward to working with you all, both staff as well as public Governors; you contribute to helping us deliver high quality care to the people of Essex.”
Both NEP and SEPT were providers of mental health, substance misuse services and a wide range of community based services. The Trusts merged to form EPUT on 1 April 2017.
The following have been elected as Governors for Mid and South Essex:

James Clarke

Poppy Ann Miller




The ESSEX press would have a field day if they learned about this!

Trudi Benjamin is also a Governor, of a high school.

http://www.qehs.co/about-qehc/

"Trudi is a ‘stay at home’ mum raising her four children and two step-children, the youngest a pupil at QEHS.
Previously living in Canada for 10 years Trudi played an active role in PTA’s and acted as PTA Treasurer 2010-2012.
Trudi trained as a Person Centred Counsellor and worked as a Bereavement Counsellor in the early 2000’s.
Since returning from Canada in 2012, Trudi re-entered education gaining her Diploma in Higher Education with the Open University and The Effective Practice Certificate in Youth Justice.   She has also worked as a volunteer Community Referral Order Panel member for Hereford YOS and trained in Restorative Justice practices. 
Currently Trudi is in her third year of an Undergraduate Degree in Law and the Director of JB Campaign Ltd, a not for profit limited company set up with dual aims of raising funds and awareness of an historic miscarriage of justice.    Through this work she has developed many multi-media marketing skills and strategies and has gained public speaking experience.   She has personal interest in Restorative Justice Practices in dispute resolution and Human Rights.
http://www.qehs.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Governor-Backgrounds-v2-November-2017.docx


"and has gained public speaking experience"  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

Oh yes she has
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 07:34:51 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1259.msg39522.html#msg39522
Offline Gemini
Junior Member
**
Posts: 52

HELLO EVERYONE
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:PM »
"Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading for the forum for sometime now and recently have been tempted to post, even it was to say some choice words to PoorBambi!!!!   Some of you know me from the FB Innocent Page and I obviously firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent.  I know the case pretty well having read several books and all the documents/statements posted.  Not sure I can add anything intelligent to the debate but I will certainly try.   I continue to learn something new everyday from the posts made and certainly think of it as valuable information for the most part.   BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book.   Thanks Tru


So Tru (Short for Trudi Benjamin?) says her hero is a man who "threatens to kill" JM and co  *&^^&

And a forum crush on Jackie  @)(++(*


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1696.msg52275.html#msg52275
"http://ww.wsd1.org/contacts/contacts.htm

"Not hard to find her on the internet.  I wonder if she would be in the position she is now with convictions for robbery and cheque book fraud and without a tidy sum to set her up.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2580.msg80447.html#msg80447

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48100.html#msg48100

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48183.html#msg48183

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1710.msg52906.html#msg52906

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2599.msg81646.html#msg81646

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2062.0

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176


"No reply and maybe it wasn't the wisest choice but I agree that a major celeb might be a good thing.  Especially since any credibility Bob Wofflechops added has sadly been wiped out!

"I think it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth.  I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent.  I bet they wish he would just shut up.
 
"Jeremy works on his case for hours and hours every day and I'm sure is angry but what good would it be if he fell apart and let the system eat him alive.  He choses to fight and he has never given up.  The justice system is against him and he has and will continue to do everything in his power to see his sentence over turned.  Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help.   Rant over :o

"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly". http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1319.msg40974.html#msg40974

Trudi Benjamin "has personal interest in Restorative Justice Practices in dispute resolution and Human Rights"

"Restorative justice brings those harmed by crime or conflict and those responsible for the harm into communication, enabling everyone affected by a particular incident to play a part in repairing the harm and finding a positive way forward. This is part of a wider field called restorative practice https://restorativejustice.org.uk/what-restorative-justice

Trudi states:
"it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth.  I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent.  I bet they wish he would just shut up

"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly

"Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help

"BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book.   Thanks Tru

"Hypocrite
noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 08:13:15 PM
Trudi Benjamin is also a Governor, of a high school.

http://www.qehs.co/about-qehc/

"Trudi is a ‘stay at home’ mum raising her four children and two step-children, the youngest a pupil at QEHS.
Previously living in Canada for 10 years Trudi played an active role in PTA’s and acted as PTA Treasurer 2010-2012.
Trudi trained as a Person Centred Counsellor and worked as a Bereavement Counsellor in the early 2000’s.
Since returning from Canada in 2012, Trudi re-entered education gaining her Diploma in Higher Education with the Open University and The Effective Practice Certificate in Youth Justice.   She has also worked as a volunteer Community Referral Order Panel member for Hereford YOS and trained in Restorative Justice practices. 
Currently Trudi is in her third year of an Undergraduate Degree in Law and the Director of JB Campaign Ltd, a not for profit limited company set up with dual aims of raising funds and awareness of an historic miscarriage of justice.    Through this work she has developed many multi-media marketing skills and strategies and has gained public speaking experience.   She has personal interest in Restorative Justice Practices in dispute resolution and Human Rights.
http://www.qehs.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Governor-Backgrounds-v2-November-2017.docx


"and has gained public speaking experience"  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

Oh yes she has

Trudi states in 2011:
"If Shelia had said "Bad people should DIE" thats one thing but saying "KILLED" shows very clearly her and state of mind and indicates possible intent. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533

It's never Jeremy Bambers fault. Trudi, like Bamber blames the poor victims  *&^^&
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8541.msg428156#msg428156

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/convicted-killer-jeremy-bamber-feels-239967
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 23, 2018, 08:40:52 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1571.msg48103.html#msg48103

Trudie supports Mike writing a book on the subject.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 23, 2018, 08:49:33 PM
I wonder if David is near completion on his book. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 23, 2018, 08:51:32 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1571.msg48103.html#msg48103

Trudie supports Mike writing a book on the subject.

Head straight to fiction
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 23, 2018, 09:00:51 PM
Trudie didn't post much on the Blue forum. She was already doing outside work on behalf of Bamber.

Roch, Buddy, Mike & Jackie were posting at the same time as Trudie. Bamber would have told her straight away she would have to break away from the Blue forum if they were going to work closely together. Or she quickly realised this herself.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 09:39:16 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1571.msg48103.html#msg48103

Trudie supports Mike writing a book on the subject.

"There is definately book material.  Mike's personal journey, along side Jeremy's for the last 20 odd years.  The stuff of movies particularly once Jeremy is freed

     
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEoY30cMvc
 


She's deluded!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 09:40:16 PM
I wonder if David is near completion on his book.

You are joking right?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 23, 2018, 09:50:32 PM
There may be a batch of books & media interviews from supporters who had engaged with an incarcerated Bamber. If he is released.  Together with supporters trying to become part of a released Bamber's inner circle.

This will be the reason for David's stance change & attempt to contact Bamber. Nothing to lose if Bamber remains inside, but a lot to gain on a release. No one has ever gone from hardcore guilter to hardcore supporter before.

Although David may have given up on a Bamber release if he is already talking about writing a book.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2018, 10:07:59 PM
So what's the back story on how ngb hooked up with Mike Tesko?

Does anyone know?

How did these 2 meet?

Did ngb know Mike Teskowski was a convicted fraudster with a criminal history spanning decades?

Did he know Mike Tesco was a highly disordered individual?

Ngb replies to Gemini aka Trudi Benjamin:
"Mike's case would make an excellent TV documentary."


Trudie didn't post much on the Blue forum. She was already doing outside work on behalf of Bamber.

Roch, Buddy, Mike & Jackie were posting at the same time as Trudie. Bamber would have told her straight away she would have to break away from the Blue forum if they were going to work closely together. Or she quickly realised this herself.

Did you see that Adam?

"An excellent TV documentary"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEoY30cMvc
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 24, 2018, 12:02:22 PM
It seems LW has migrated to IA.  Although LW does claim to he neutral.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 24, 2018, 12:13:25 PM
Ngb replies to Gemini aka Trudi Benjamin:
"Mike's case would make an excellent TV documentary."


Did you see that Adam?

"An excellent TV documentary"

Maybe Jackie can create a 6 part documentary on Mike. I'll watch it. 

After her hopefully soon to be released 6 part Jeremy documentary of course. Episodes 1 - 4 being on Julie identifying the twins.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 24, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
It seems LW has migrated to IA.  Although LW does claim to he neutral.

What is IA ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 24, 2018, 01:49:00 PM
What is IA ?

Maybe I should have said wandered off...

IA is Injustice Anywhere forum.

There's a thread on JB:

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2931
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 24, 2018, 01:58:56 PM
Thanks. He obviously didn't like the Blue & Red forums.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 24, 2018, 02:27:40 PM
Thanks. He obviously didn't like the Blue & Red forums.

He/she still has an account here so may wander back over. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 24, 2018, 05:03:04 PM
He/she still has an account here so may wander back over.

He's well away on the IA forum. Seven of the last 11 posts were his trademark long posts. No one is disagreeing. Because no one is reading them.

A bit like on the Blue/Red forums, with the exception of his Sheila scenario thread. My response upsetting him so much that he left !
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2018, 08:30:11 PM
What a chancer! Watch psycho Mike Tesco jump on the band wagon.

http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/16178432.Convicted_killer_asks_for_evidence_to_be_disclosed_to_allow_for_third_appeal/#comments-anchor

In a letter sent from HMP Wakefield, a Category A prison where Bamber is serving a full life tariff, he said:

"Once the CPS formally disclose these documents it is an admission Essex Police took two silencers to the lab for examination, both had areas of blood staining on them and both were ruled irrelevant to the inquiry.

“Sue Hemming has to conceded to the Criminal Cases Reviews Commission the CPS can no longer sustain my conviction and my case must be fast tracked to the Court of Appeal. The CPS cannot sustain my conviction now the second silencer should have been known to the jury.”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 24, 2018, 08:37:18 PM
What a chancer?

http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/16178432.Convicted_killer_asks_for_evidence_to_be_disclosed_to_allow_for_third_appeal/#comments-anchor

In a letter sent from HMP Wakefield, a Category A prison where Bamber is serving a full life tariff, he said:

"Once the CPS formally disclose these documents it is an admission Essex Police took two silencers to the lab for examination, both had areas of blood staining on them and both were ruled irrelevant to the inquiry.

“Sue Hemming has to conceded to the Criminal Cases Reviews Commission the CPS can no longer sustain my conviction and my case must be fast tracked to the Court of Appeal. The CPS cannot sustain my conviction now the second silencer should have been known to the jury.”

Ha, ha! I thought they had NEW evidence to prove his innocence?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2018, 08:42:42 PM
Ha, ha! I thought they had NEW evidence to prove his innocence?

Don't  @)(++(*

What an utter moron!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2018, 08:56:14 PM
What a chancer! Watch psycho Mike Tesco jump on the band wagon.

http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/16178432.Convicted_killer_asks_for_evidence_to_be_disclosed_to_allow_for_third_appeal/#comments-anchor

In a letter sent from HMP Wakefield, a Category A prison where Bamber is serving a full life tariff, he said:

"Once the CPS formally disclose these documents it is an admission Essex Police took two silencers to the lab for examination, both had areas of blood staining on them and both were ruled irrelevant to the inquiry.

“Sue Hemming has to conceded to the Criminal Cases Reviews Commission the CPS can no longer sustain my conviction and my case must be fast tracked to the Court of Appeal. The CPS cannot sustain my conviction now the second silencer should have been known to the jury.”

"However, Bamber is contesting the sound moderator evidence and is calling for disclosure of information.

Bamber, 57, says there is evidence more than one sound moderator was examined and the findings were merged - and as such contaminated - before being presented at trial.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 24, 2018, 09:43:06 PM
"However, Bamber is contesting the sound moderator evidence and is calling for disclosure of information.

Bamber, 57, says there is evidence more than one sound moderator was examined and the findings were merged - and as such contaminated - before being presented at trial.

I wonder how he worked this out, after 33 years. Espescially if documents are being withheld.  Or is he just saying this to keep his supporters morale up ?

What happened to all the donations for forensic tests ?

Findings merged. Is he accusing the police of a frame. Although he says both moderators had blood staining on them.

Hopefully some more information on how it was easier to fabricate the moderator evidence by using two moderators will be released. Rather than just claiming two were used.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2018, 11:35:31 AM
What a chancer! Watch psycho Mike Tesco jump on the band wagon.

http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/16178432.Convicted_killer_asks_for_evidence_to_be_disclosed_to_allow_for_third_appeal/#comments-anchor

In a letter sent from HMP Wakefield, a Category A prison where Bamber is serving a full life tariff, he said:

"Once the CPS formally disclose these documents it is an admission Essex Police took two silencers to the lab for examination, both had areas of blood staining on them and both were ruled irrelevant to the inquiry.

“Sue Hemming has to conceded to the Criminal Cases Reviews Commission the CPS can no longer sustain my conviction and my case must be fast tracked to the Court of Appeal. The CPS cannot sustain my conviction now the second silencer should have been known to the jury.”

CT Anthem?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 12:29:34 PM
I wonder if this is what Jeremy Bamber tells his supporters and hence why they produce it?

"If this woman had a conscience she would not trade a man's life for money. Most of us equate silence with guilt"
https://mobile.twitter.com/FreeBamberNow/status/988038037488721920

They are of course referring to another of Bamber's vicitims, JM.



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 12:42:15 PM
http://jerseyabusescandal.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/who-is-sarah-hanover-ask-mike-tesko-and.html

"Hello David,

Thank you for your email.

I'm not entirely sure what you would like to contribute, so I will respond to some of the points you made and maybe we could take it from there?
But I would ask you to keep the Mugford/Eaton matter private. This information has not been revealed and Jeremy does not wish it to be made public.

Do you want your identity to remain confidential from everyone including Jeremy and his lawyers and talk to me alone for the time being? You say you dont want to hide your identity but I would like to clairfy this just to be cautious. . . . Talking to Jeremy on the phone involves the prison authorities listening in.

If you can tell us something about the connection between Mugford and the Eatons that would be interesting but there would be a limit on how much it could help Jeremy's case. Jeremy has fully discussed his case with us but we keep key information confidential this is why it is not mentioned on our web sites. 

I am quite sure that the Eatons and Boutflour's know that 'the game is up' and the discovery by the Defence of what actually happened with the sound moderator has frightened them and that would be a good reason to move I am sure.

The Home Secretary set Jeremy's whole life tariff after the original sentencing and this is in breach of ECHR regulations they would not allow the case in their court if this was incorrect as it is NOT illegal to set whole life tariff when sentencing.

Just to note, we are not 'friends' of anyone involved in the campaign, including Jeremy and we work for him in a professional capacity he is our client and we provide consulting services for him pro bono in the pursuit of justice.

We have no involvement with Mike Tesko - I would term him as a 'crank'. I can also assure you that Jeremy feels exactly the same and has no contact with this man. We would ask you to never reveal the details we have discussed as this is information we do not want revealed.

If you think we have been misled you may be right, I dont know I was not around in Essex and did not associate with Jeremy Bamber. Nevertheless what we are interested in is  evidence or witness testimony or anything that can lead us to those.

Thanks for taking the time to write to us about the case and it is much appreciated and if you think you can provide any information which might help I would be more than willing to listen if you want to email or call me either is fine.

Kindest regards,

Sarah Hanover.

.....................................


What I don't understand is why the prison and probation services don't intervene and stop Bamber from his quite apparent grooming and abuse of people like Sarah Hanover.

Why are the prison turning a blind eye? Infact why is the State turning a blind eye?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 01:49:39 PM
Ha, ha! I thought they had NEW evidence to prove his innocence?

I posted about this recently:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=468.msg454312#msg454312

It has as much chance of success as David's 'FEB' ie ZERO.

At the 2002 appeal MT tried to argue the hand swabs were swapped and the appeal judges simply batted it away:

Points 175 - 213

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 25, 2018, 02:01:03 PM
I posted about this recently:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=468.msg454312#msg454312

It has as much chance of success as David's 'FEB' ie ZERO.

At the 2002 appeal MT tried to argue the hand swabs were swapped and the appeal judges simply batted it away:

Points 175 - 213

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

What is the biggest piece of released & accepted evidence that makes you believe Bamber is innocent ?

Supporters spend most of their time disputing the evidence that makes him guilty.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 02:30:57 PM
What is the biggest piece of released & accepted evidence that makes you believe Bamber is innocent ?

Supporters spend most of their time disputing the evidence that makes him guilty.

I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted?  Released and accepted by whom? 

I believe JB innocent based on my own research.  If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty! 

I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal.  Afaik these points originate from my research.  This excludes:

-  The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
-  Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
-  Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot

I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s).  He can take it or leave it as he sees fit. 



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 25, 2018, 02:48:30 PM
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted?  Released and accepted by whom? 

I believe JB innocent based on my own research.  If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty! 

I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal.  Afaik these points originate from my research.  This excludes:

-  The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
-  Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
-  Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot

I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s).  He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.

I'll say one thing for you Holly, you don't give up easily but I think you are flogging a dead horse.  Even if you discard everything we know about the assaults on Neville and Sheila, the testimony by Julie Mugford is damning.  Bamber wanted to kill his parents and then they are discovered dead along with everyone else who would have benefitted from their estate.  Can you not see that for yourself.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 25, 2018, 02:52:29 PM
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted?  Released and accepted by whom? 

I believe JB innocent based on my own research.  If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty! 

I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal.  Afaik these points originate from my research.  This excludes:

-  The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
-  Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
-  Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot

I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s).  He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.

Released and accepted is June was shot 7 times.

Released and not accepted is Nevill called Essex Police.

Julie signing NOTW deal pre trial/verdict does not make Bamber innocent.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 03:34:06 PM
I'm still waiting for Holly to reply to my various posts including those regarding Kerry Daynes.

Holly may be interested to learn I am in the process of emailing Michael Spurr.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 04:16:47 PM
Released and accepted is June was shot 7 times.

I think it's more likely June sustained 8 gsw's whereby 1 was a graze only wound independent of the other 7 and accounts for spent bullet DRH/5.  This also accounts for the 12 casings found in the main bedroom and landing excl. the 2 that pertain to SC.  At trial Fletcher agreed with Lawson this was the case through a process of elimination.

Released and not accepted is Nevill called Essex Police.

I don't think there's any evidence NB called EP.

Julie signing NOTW deal pre trial/verdict does not make Bamber innocent.

No it doesn't but it does undermine her testimony. 

My 10 points don't necessarily make JB innocent.  But it's not about innocence is it?  At trial it's 'not guilty' or 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt'.  At appeal it's about finding 'fresh evidence' which had jurors heard at trial may have caused them to return a different verdict rendering the conviction unsafe.

   
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 04:18:06 PM
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted?  Released and accepted by whom? 

I believe JB innocent based on my own research.  If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty! 

I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal.  Afaik these points originate from my research.  This excludes:

-  The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
-  Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
-  Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot

I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s).  He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.

 @)(++(*

Surely Holly even you can see how daft this sounds?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
I think it's more likely June sustained 8 gsw's whereby 1 was a graze only wound independent of the other 7 and accounts for spent bullet DRH/5.  This also accounts for the 12 casings found in the main bedroom and landing excl. the 2 that pertain to SC.  At trial Fletcher agreed with Lawson this was the case through a process of elimination.

I don't think there's any evidence NB called EP.

No it doesn't but it does undermine her testimony

My 10 points don't necessarily make JB innocent.  But it's not about innocence is it?  At trial it's 'not guilty' or 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt'.  At appeal it's about finding 'fresh evidence' which had jurors heard at trial may have caused them to return a different verdict rendering the conviction unsafe.

   

No it doesn't! I get the sense you have once again been taken in by others and/or you are deluded

I follow the evidence Holly, no more no less

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 04:24:34 PM
I'm still waiting for Holly to reply to my various posts including those regarding Kerry Daynes.

Holly may be interested to learn I am in the process of emailing Michael Spurr.

I'll be spending less time posting due to taking things forward in the real world.

KD is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things. 

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 04:25:02 PM
I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s).  He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.

As you know Holly, Bamber will jump at any opportunity presented to him as he has no options left available to him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 04:35:53 PM
No it doesn't! I get the sense you have once again been taken in by others and/or you are deluded

I follow the evidence Holly, no more no less

Stephanie why do you have to resort to insults when anyone disagrees with you?   Why can't you just say I disagree and here's why instead of resorting to 'I've been taken in' and 'I'm deluded'?  If you're unable to exchange posts with me on a civil basis I will simply stop responding. 

Read the CoA doc and the judge's comments and I think you will find if it can be proved JM signed her deal with NOTW before the end of the trial her evidence will be ruled inadmissible.  It doesn't bother me one iota either way. It's not neccessary for a successful appeal.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 04:36:54 PM
I'll be spending less time posting due to taking things forward in the real world.

KD is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things. 

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy


You'll be pleased to hear Holly I shall be addressing this point in my email to Michael Spurr



"Psychopathy?
The recent TV programme on Sky three contained testimony by Ms Kerry Daynes, a psychologist, who misled the viewers into thinking that she had met Jeremy Bamber, had read reports on him, or carried out a diagnosis. She said that he 'showed all the traits of a psychopath'. This is not the case and Ms Daynes’ testimony is incorrect and her remarks are pure fallacy. To read more on Jeremy's psychologist reports click here

This programme made assumptions based on prejudicial witness accounts. Jeremy had homosexual friends, as you or I would today, except that in 1985 if you mixed with 'gay' people you clearly were one. By using Kerry Daynes misleading account of Jeremy ‘wanting to attract attention and this being a trait of a psychopath’, Sky have tricked the audience into believing that this was NOT an attack on Jeremy's sexuality but merely a reflection of psychopathic behaviour. Their argument is not valid, there is no psychopathy, therefore, the implied sexual behaviour of Jeremy was merely normal, and certainly so by today's standards.

As Jeremy said, Kerry Daynes is not a member of the Healthcare Professions Council or the British Psychological Society, nor has she answered letters sent to her business address. Why did Kerry Daynes not state clearly that she had not examined Jeremy Bamber and why did Ofcom not take into account psychological reports that Jeremy was not a psychopath? Their argument appears to be based on this appalling and misleading 'guesswork'. The ruling not only breeds hatred of minority groups but makes a mockery of equality expected within the broadcasting standards of the 21st century. Jeremy's sexuality had no bearing on his conviction and is therefore not in the public interest and never was.

If you would like to air your views on the TV Programme 'Killing Mum and Dad' which was aired on Tuesday 14th September 2010 at 9pm (and also on subsequent days) please contact: Viewer Relations, Sky Services Ltd, PO Box 43, Livingston, West Lothian, EH54 7DD.

You might also want to complain to Ofcom the TV regulator about the programme's misleading content and their subsequent prejudicial ruling. Yesterday's ruling on the programme by Ofcom can be read here (page 43 onwards). Clearly, Ofcom and Sky are suggesting that it is acceptable to ridicule the sexuality of someone, along with their gender. The content of the programme was not reflective of Jeremy Bamber's conviction. The programme presented witnesses whose accounts showed prejudice and it is these foundations upon which the judgments have been made.

Jeremy says:

“As a high profile case, a category ‘A’ prisoner, and a whole life tariff prisoner I have undergone a number of psychological assessments by twenty seven different psychologists. Each carried out numerous tests on me and some interviewed me for twenty hours or more over many weeks.

The most recent assessment of me was carried out in 2009 by Professor Vincent Egan a Chartered Clinical psychologist and senior lecturer in forensic psychology at Leicester University. He was provided with my complete psychological file and all my medical records. He also interviewed me, and I completed various psychological tests before he wrote his report on me.

His conclusion is that I am not a psychopath. During the last quarter of a century and twenty seven different psychologists, not a single one of these experts has concluded that I show any traits consistent with psychopathy.

On the ‘Hare’ psychopathy test it was concluded that 95% of the population show more psychopathic traits than I do. I have also had 3 P.C.L.R tests that are designed specifically to reveal psychopathy and all 3 concluded the same, I am not a psychopath. Nor do I have any personality disorder.

Interestingly, I have just received a letter from the British Psychological Society. MS Kerry Daynes is no longer a member of the society and they have suggested that I should complain to the health professions council, curiously, they confirm she is not registered with them either. Mail sent to her address is returned as 'gone away'.”

Remember that prisoners, particularly those convicted of murder, are very easy targets to make up lies about. Jeremy needs people on the outside to make a stand for him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 04:42:37 PM
Stephanie why do you have to resort to insults when anyone disagrees with you?   Why can't you just say I disagree and here's why instead of resorting to 'I've been taken in' and 'I'm deluded'?  If you're unable to exchange posts with me on a civil basis I will simply stop responding. 

Read the CoA doc and the judge's comments and I think you will find if it can be proved JM signed her deal with NOTW before the end of the trial her evidence will be ruled inadmissible.  It doesn't bother me one iota either way. It's not neccessary for a successful appeal.

I take it when you refer to "anyone" you are referring to yourself?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
As you know Holly, Bamber will jump at any opportunity presented to him as he has no options left available to him.

I disagree.  I think he's very much dictated to by the CT specifically Sarah Hanover who I think is very controlling and alienates a lot of sensible people who are actually able to contribute something worthwhile.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 04:59:45 PM
@)(++(*

Surely Holly even you can see how daft this sounds?

The proof will be in the pudding. 

Forensics are looking good though.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:00:05 PM
I disagree.  I think he's very much dictated to by the CT specifically Sarah Hanover who I think is very controlling and alienates a lot of sensible people who are actually able to contribute something worthwhile.

How can Sarah Hanover or any other supporter for that matter alienate Jeremy Bamber?

Please provide evidence for your assertions
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:01:27 PM
The proof will be in the pudding. 

Forensics are looking good though.

I fear you will one day come to eat that "pudding" to which you refer, just as I did.  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:10:05 PM
I disagree.  I think he's very much dictated to by the CT specifically Sarah Hanover who I think is very controlling and alienates a lot of sensible people who are actually able to contribute something worthwhile.

It is people like Sarah Hanover who are the victims and have been alienated by Jeremy Bambers actions, not the other way round Holly!

The Campaign Team are also victims blinded by Jeremy Bamber! Some of these victims have been groomed and psychologically abused for years on end but remain in denial for reasons only known to them.

Your use of the word "controlling" is misplaced and misguided; the one and only controller is Jeremy Bamber!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 05:16:56 PM
How can Sarah Hanover or any other supporter for that matter alienate Jeremy Bamber?

Please provide evidence for your assertions

I didn't say she alienates JB I said she alienates a lot of sensible people who are able to contribute something worthwhile.  Perhaps alienates is too strong a word but if others come along who are not the type to be controlled and dictated to they will not be embraced as such.  And yes I do have evidence but I'm not prepared to divulge it.






Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:19:30 PM
I didn't say she alienates JB I said she alienates a lot of sensible people who are able to contribute something worthwhile.  Perhaps alienates is too strong a word but if others come along who are not the type to be controlled and dictated to they will not be embraced as such.  And yes I do have evidence but I'm not prepared to divulge it.

Holly what you are posting is EXACTLY what was once said about me!

Your belief is again misplaced.

I take on board your use of the word "alienate" may be too strong a word but in reality Sarah Hanover and the others have no power over Bamber whatsoever.

Anyone can email or write to Bamber and tell him anything.

Anyone can visit him, following approval etc
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 05:22:31 PM
It is people like Sarah Hanover who are the victims and have been alienated by Jeremy Bambers actions, not the other way round Holly!

The Campaign Team are also victims blinded by Jeremy Bamber! Some of these victims have been groomed and psychologically abused for years on end but remain in denial for reasons only known to them.

Your use of the word "controlling" is misplaced and misguided; the one and only controller is Jeremy Bamber!

No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf.  They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe.  I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off.  What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?

I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2018, 05:26:36 PM
Holly what you are posting is EXACTLY like what was once said about me!

Your belief is again misplaced.

I take on board your use of the word "alienate may be too strong a word" but in reality Sarah Hanover and the others have no power over Bamber whatsoever.

Anyone can email or write to Bamber and tell him anything.

Anyone can visit him, following approval etc

I've had contact with JB and limited contact with CT.  IMO JB is very much controlled and easily led.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:29:16 PM
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf.  They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe.  I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off.  What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?

I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.

Look Holly, my character was assassinated

The people behind the assissination of my character were Simon Hall and his family. This is where it all started.

My then at times online irrational behaviour was exploited and used as a weapon against me, in the main by Simon Hall and his family.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:34:04 PM
I've had contact with JB and limited contact with CT.  IMO JB is very much controlled and easily led.

Yep. I get it Holly.

But Bamber's playing a game with you and each and every one of his supporters.

He will have gathered much information about you from your few letters to him. He will have subtly used what you told him and manipulated it to his advantage in order to play you off against his other victims.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:38:43 PM
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf.  They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe.  I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off.  What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?

I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.

We may come to learn one day Holly that Jeremy Bamber was behind all this.

What sort of person can be exploited and manipulated by a psychopath? Anyone and everyone that's who!

The CT may have been desperate. We don't know all the facts yet. Desperate people do desperate things.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:45:43 PM
I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.

Jeremy Bambers life behind bars is most probably more cushy than many people who have not lost their liberty.

I've no idea what your perception of prison is but you only need look at a recent photo of Bamber to see he doesn't have suffering etched across his face, for example.

No bills to pay, no roof to keep over his head. 3 square meals cooked and paid for a day.

Some prisons even provide regular acupuncture for prisoners.

I could go on and on..

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.

Have you ever considered this is how Bamber perceives his victims?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 25, 2018, 05:57:08 PM
All personal comments will be removed?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 05:59:41 PM
I'll be spending less time posting due to taking things forward in the real world.

KD is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things. 

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy

I don't actually think you see KD as irrelevant but I think I understand why you chose to post what you have.

I'm not your enemy Holly, though I appreciate you may see me as such at times.

I wasn't joking btw about my email to Michael Spurr.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 06:28:14 PM
All personal comments will be removed?


I've seen David's comment on blue:

"The JB section of that place now consists primarily of an emotional fruitcake and a moderator with Alzheimer’s disease and an alcohol problem. A ghastly place indeed.   ;D

Ignore him Holly, he's a plank. Once a coward always a coward.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2018, 07:08:58 PM
You'll be pleased to hear Holly I shall be addressing this point in my email to Michael Spurr



"Psychopathy?
The recent TV programme on Sky three contained testimony by Ms Kerry Daynes, a psychologist, who misled the viewers into thinking that she had met Jeremy Bamber, had read reports on him, or carried out a diagnosis. She said that he 'showed all the traits of a psychopath'. This is not the case and Ms Daynes’ testimony is incorrect and her remarks are pure fallacy. To read more on Jeremy's psychologist reports click here

This programme made assumptions based on prejudicial witness accounts. Jeremy had homosexual friends, as you or I would today, except that in 1985 if you mixed with 'gay' people you clearly were one. By using Kerry Daynes misleading account of Jeremy ‘wanting to attract attention and this being a trait of a psychopath’, Sky have tricked the audience into believing that this was NOT an attack on Jeremy's sexuality but merely a reflection of psychopathic behaviour. Their argument is not valid, there is no psychopathy, therefore, the implied sexual behaviour of Jeremy was merely normal, and certainly so by today's standards.

As Jeremy said, Kerry Daynes is not a member of the Healthcare Professions Council or the British Psychological Society, nor has she answered letters sent to her business address. Why did Kerry Daynes not state clearly that she had not examined Jeremy Bamber and why did Ofcom not take into account psychological reports that Jeremy was not a psychopath? Their argument appears to be based on this appalling and misleading 'guesswork'. The ruling not only breeds hatred of minority groups but makes a mockery of equality expected within the broadcasting standards of the 21st century. Jeremy's sexuality had no bearing on his conviction and is therefore not in the public interest and never was.

If you would like to air your views on the TV Programme 'Killing Mum and Dad' which was aired on Tuesday 14th September 2010 at 9pm (and also on subsequent days) please contact: Viewer Relations, Sky Services Ltd, PO Box 43, Livingston, West Lothian, EH54 7DD.

You might also want to complain to Ofcom the TV regulator about the programme's misleading content and their subsequent prejudicial ruling. Yesterday's ruling on the programme by Ofcom can be read here (page 43 onwards). Clearly, Ofcom and Sky are suggesting that it is acceptable to ridicule the sexuality of someone, along with their gender. The content of the programme was not reflective of Jeremy Bamber's conviction. The programme presented witnesses whose accounts showed prejudice and it is these foundations upon which the judgments have been made.

Jeremy says:

“As a high profile case, a category ‘A’ prisoner, and a whole life tariff prisoner I have undergone a number of psychological assessments by twenty seven different psychologists. Each carried out numerous tests on me and some interviewed me for twenty hours or more over many weeks.

The most recent assessment of me was carried out in 2009 by Professor Vincent Egan a Chartered Clinical psychologist and senior lecturer in forensic psychology at Leicester University. He was provided with my complete psychological file and all my medical records. He also interviewed me, and I completed various psychological tests before he wrote his report on me.

His conclusion is that I am not a psychopath. During the last quarter of a century and twenty seven different psychologists, not a single one of these experts has concluded that I show any traits consistent with psychopathy.

On the ‘Hare’ psychopathy test it was concluded that 95% of the population show more psychopathic traits than I do. I have also had 3 P.C.L.R tests that are designed specifically to reveal psychopathy and all 3 concluded the same, I am not a psychopath. Nor do I have any personality disorder.

Interestingly, I have just received a letter from the British Psychological Society. MS Kerry Daynes is no longer a member of the society and they have suggested that I should complain to the health professions council, curiously, they confirm she is not registered with them either. Mail sent to her address is returned as 'gone away'.”

Remember that prisoners, particularly those convicted of murder, are very easy targets to make up lies about. Jeremy needs people on the outside to make a stand for him.

Minority groups?  @)(++(* Is that mass murders, psychopaths or whole life tariff inmates? (Incidentally, this err 'minority group' has earned two more members!).

His account of his psychological assessment history is also misleading and he knows that! Why the need to mislead?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2018, 08:00:26 PM
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted?  Released and accepted by whom? 

I believe JB innocent based on my own research.  If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty! 

I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal.  Afaik these points originate from my research.  This excludes:

-  The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
-  Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
-  Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot

I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s).  He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.

JM didn't have any deal when she made her statements to EP so that cannot be construed as a motive. If the issue is when she 'signed' the contract then it's really neither here nor there. If the arrangement of a story isn't unlawful pre verdict, then I fail to see what difference the signing makes. It wasn't her motivation for coming forward and as such - makes no odds. Even if we were to accept that it would make her testimony inadmissible - how would that affect the case now? Do we erase everyone's memory or pretend she didn't testify that Bamber plotted to kill his family? It can't be taken back and there would be an absolute uproar if the powers that be decided to let him out based on this criteria!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 08:09:02 PM
I think it's more likely June sustained 8 gsw's whereby 1 was a graze only wound independent of the other 7 and accounts for spent bullet DRH/5.  This also accounts for the 12 casings found in the main bedroom and landing excl. the 2 that pertain to SC.  At trial Fletcher agreed with Lawson this was the case through a process of elimination.

I don't think there's any evidence NB called EP.

No it doesn't but it does undermine her testimony. 

My 10 points don't necessarily make JB innocent. But it's not about innocence is it? At trial it's 'not guilty' or 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt'.  At appeal it's about finding 'fresh evidence' which had jurors heard at trial may have caused them to return a different verdict rendering the conviction unsafe.

   

You are right Holly; it's not about innocence.

It's about Jeremy Bamber attempting to beat the criminal justice system. But it won't happen!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 08:20:46 PM
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf.  They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe.  I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off.  What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?

Jeremy Bamber is behind it all Holly! The CT have been manipulated to such an extent their brains are scrambled when it comes to Bamber, they can't see the wood through the trees. Many of them will be acting out of character.
I implore you to read up on psychopaths and their relationships with others. You cannot truly understand it unless you've experienced it; and I suspect you may have?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2018, 11:09:23 PM
Interesting though that the jeremybamberforum is down to around 10 posters a day and ngb has decided to bring this up. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9398.0.html

Ngb states: "I have not revealed what I know and others here have also maintained confidences, but frankly this character should be exposed."


Reminds me a bit of David's FEB (as Holly refers to it).

Why now? Why bring this up when the forums dead? And why keep turning a blind eye to the quite apparent psychopath Mike Tesco, and others?

It's clear David started the thread in order to take the heat off himself because Holly has further exposed his sneaky, irrational behaviour.

David, you should have listened to your dad and gone to the newspapers. Your credibility is nought!

Actions speak louder than words ngb, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows this. Will be interesting however to see where this all leads or whether it's another ploy; like David's FEB.

I note NGB's one hit wonder came to nothing.

Psychopaths like Jeremy Bamber suffer from boredom. http://psychopathsandlove.com/the-nemesis-of-the-psychopath-boredom/
 
They need regular challenges and that's what I imagine Bamber's case has been to him these past 3 decades; along with the challenge of the strong characters he comes up against.

Simon Hall would often say he saw me as a challenge.  *&^^&  Comments like this are red flags!

"When a psychopath is bored, he may recognise that his grandiosity is only an illusion. This recognition is unbearable, according to Reid Melloy PhD, and he experiences a need for immediate and aggressive gratification to restore his grandiosity.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2018, 12:00:05 AM
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf.  They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe.  I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off.  What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?

I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.

The creepy campaign to free Jeremy Bamber
"Bamber’s defence has always been inherently implausible. Even Bob Woffinden, a veteran journalist who specialises in miscarriages of justice and who spent 20 years arguing for Bamber’s release, bravely wrote last year that he has changed his mind and is now sure of Bamber’s guilt. In running his campaign from his maximum security prison cell, said Woffinden, ‘Bamber still has all the cunning and ingenuity that he displayed in planning the crime.’ The calls to overturn his conviction are a disgrace, based on nothing more than lies, distractions and hollow theorising. The real affront to our justice system would be another pointless appeal for this monstrous killer. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2012/04/lack-of-appeal/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2018, 12:08:27 AM
I didn't say she alienates JB I said she alienates a lot of sensible people who are able to contribute something worthwhile.  Perhaps alienates is too strong a word but if others come along who are not the type to be controlled and dictated to they will not be embraced as such.  And yes I do have evidence but I'm not prepared to divulge it.

See Andrew Green's email to me http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457498#msg457498

"I don't want to take sides in any dispute that doesn't concern me directly, but you do seem to have alienated a lot of people who would otherwise be willing to give support to Simon, simply because they want to see an innocent person exonerated.


What you are witnessing Holly is what Jeremy Bamber has created. It is he who has alienated Sarah Hanover and others. From the email posted on the previous page you can see quite clearly her paranoia. This isn't normal behaviour; it's how victims of abuse behave. It's what Bamber has turned her into. She really believes all the lies he's told her. She's clearly got trust issues; again caused by Bambers mind games. She's been brainwashed.

Dr Andrew Green's email to me was total BS and told me all I needed to know about him. I couldn't possibly have stopped anyone from contacting Hall but people like Andrew Green are also abusers. They use what they perceive to be their power to do and say as they please and they target individuals in vulnerable situations.

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/law/staff/agreen
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 26, 2018, 10:02:44 AM
The creepy campaign to free Jeremy Bamber
"Bamber’s defence has always been inherently implausible. Even Bob Woffinden, a veteran journalist who specialises in miscarriages of justice and who spent 20 years arguing for Bamber’s release, bravely wrote last year that he has changed his mind and is now sure of Bamber’s guilt. In running his campaign from his maximum security prison cell, said Woffinden, ‘Bamber still has all the cunning and ingenuity that he displayed in planning the crime.’ The calls to overturn his conviction are a disgrace, based on nothing more than lies, distractions and hollow theorising. The real affront to our justice system would be another pointless appeal for this monstrous killer. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2012/04/lack-of-appeal/

I totally agree.   8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 26, 2018, 10:07:14 AM
See Andrew Green's email to me http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457498#msg457498

"I don't want to take sides in any dispute that doesn't concern me directly, but you do seem to have alienated a lot of people who would otherwise be willing to give support to Simon, simply because they want to see an innocent person exonerated.


What you are witnessing Holly is what Jeremy Bamber has created. It is he who has alienated Sarah Hanover and others. From the email posted on the previous page you can see quite clearly her paranoia. This isn't normal behaviour; it's how victims of abuse behave. It's what Bamber has turned her into. She really believes all the lies he's told her. She's clearly got trust issues; again caused by Bambers mind games. She's been brainwashed.

Dr Andrew Green's email to me was total BS and told me all I needed to know about him. I couldn't possibly have stopped anyone from contacting Hall but people like Andrew Green are also abusers. They use what they perceive to be their power to do and say as they please and they target individuals in vulnerable situations.

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/law/staff/agreen

Do you think the Bristol Innocence Project has any credibility after what occurred with Simon Hall?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2018, 11:10:37 AM
Do you think the Bristol Innocence Project has any credibility after what occurred with Simon Hall?

The Bristol Innocence Project in no longer running, which is a shame in many ways because their mistakes, especially in relation to the Simon Hall case, have been brushed under the carpet, therefore making it more likely they will be repeated by other similar projects in the future.

It truly amazes me how the likes of Dr Michael Naughton carry on regardless, presumably believing in his previous work, when it's quite clear to people like me that his work is outdated and requires immediate revision.

I mean, look at the quite apparent double standards here:

Michael J. Naughton
@mjnaughton_
·
12 Apr
This book shows that miscarriages of justice as evidenced by successful appeals against criminal conviction are a routine and mundane feature of the criminal justice system which cause extensive and profound forms of harm to direct and indirect victims: (link: http://michaeljnaughton.com/?page_id=875) michaeljnaughton.com/?page_id=875

University innocence projects: where are they now?
Only one conviction has ever been overturned on the strength of a university innocence project’s work in the UK – what’s going on? And what’s next for these projects?
"The innocence movement itself has been in a state of disarray following the 2014 disbanding of the umbrella group Innocence Network UK. Its outspoken founder Dr Michael Naughton unilaterally pulled the plug on the scheme, accusing some universities of jumping on the bandwagon, using projects as “a recruiting tool” to attract students to their courses and playing lip service to its main mission of overturning convictions.
But before that, some universities had abandoned the network over concerns about a lack of democratic accountability, and a genuinely radical and exciting project had become mired in infighting.

Prisoners in denial don’t get parole or better conditions yes they do!  – they can’t all be making it up. Why can't they? A point made by the Guardian’s Eric Allison recently: “It just doesn’t make sense that so many would make false claims.
Why doesn't it make sense? Because Eric Allison says so? Who is Eric Allison? https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/apr/27/university-innocence-projects-where-are-they-now

"Jon Robins is a freelance journalist who writes about the law and justice. He runs thejusticegap.com and is the author of The First Miscarriage of Justice (Waterside Press, 2014)

Notice the ELEPHANT in the room!  8((()*/ and that ELEPHANT will remain in the room until such time that all those people and organisations involved in the miscarriage of justice movement acknowledge their previous mistakes, understand how, why and where it went wrong and apply those lessons learned going forward.

Speaking of which, this was recently tweeted by Dr Michael Naughton

"A herd of elephants is needed in the criminal justice system room - police & prosecutors are not disclosing vital evidence; defence lawyers are failing to investigate cases properly; juries are convicting innocent people; the appeal courts & the CCRC are failing the innocent too. https://mobile.twitter.com/mjnaughton_/status/981433818103123969

Michael Naughton appears oblivious, but we know he isn't! It's a facade, self preservation possibly?

A heard of elephants are running amok within the miscarriage of justice movement and there's one sat on Michael Naughtons lap.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2018, 12:18:20 PM
Do you think the Bristol Innocence Project has any credibility after what occurred with Simon Hall?

Do you think any of these projects have any credibility?


https://l2b.thelawyer.com/issues/l2b-online/white-case-joins-innocence-pro-bono-network/
https://www.whitecase.com
http://www.innocencenetwork.org.uk/springconferenc

https://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Innocence-Projects-–-Green-Shoots

Mark Alexander writing on the resurgence and growth in universities
"Over the past nine months I’ve been trying to get a sense of the health of the innocence project movement in the UK. Between 2005 and 2014, 36 British universities signed up to the Innocence Network (INUK) (www.innocencenetwork.org.uk).  Far from dying back after the dissolution of the INUK scheme in September 2014, there has been a resurgence of growth, aspiration, and zeal in universities across the country. Ironically, it seems that many projects felt stifled by INUK membership and are now experiencing the benefits of liberation. As Professor Claire McGourlay (University of Sheffield) described it to me, “INUK folding was not the end, for us it was the start of great things, for example being able to take on joint enterprise cases”. 

Under the aegis of British Convict Criminology (run by Dr Sacha Darke and Andy Aresti from the University of Westminster, and Rod Earle of the Open University – www.convictcriminology.org/bcc.htm,  I set out to discover just how many projects had survived the breakup to go it alone. With legal aid cuts forcing more firms out of the criminal appeals industry, and mounting confusion about who we can turn to for help, my primary focus has been to establish exactly what support is available to prisoners like myself maintaining innocence and then to see how this can be built upon. In this article, I bring together views from various academics about why INUK folded, in order to make the case for cooperation between all projects in a new, democratic “Innocence Committee”. It is hoped that this will encourage more universities to get involved not only in the fight against miscarriages of justice after the fact, but in developing policy to prevent future injustices occurring in the first place.

Going Solo
The results of my research, whilst by no means exhaustive, show that there are at least 19 universities and two charitable organisations running independent criminal appeals clinics  (I use the terms “project', “criminal appeals clinic”, “innocence project”, and “justice project” interchangeably throughout this essay to refer to groups of volunteers and students who, under professional supervision, investigate potential miscarriages of justice on a pro bono basis,) in the UK. Between them they have the capacity to investigate at least 58 cases at any one time where potentially innocent men and women have been wrongly convicted. Full details can be found in the accompanying table. Although all of the projects are currently operating at full capacity, anyone who has been a victim of a miscarriage of justice can contact them for help. You may be placed on a waiting list if they have one, and are likely to be sent an application form to fill out. Those prisoners lucky enough to have a solicitor already can still apply for extra support. Solicitors tend to lack the time that innocence projects have to invest in a case, and conversely, innocence projects tend to lack the expertise of a law firm – so collaboration between the two can improve the prospects of an investigation considerably.
Author details
Mark is a final year LLB candidate and a member of British Convict Criminology. He has been in prison since February 2010. HMP Coldingley.
The author wishes to thank Professor Julie Price and Dr Sacha Darke for their helpful comments on an earlier draft of this article


Mark Alexander murdered his "controlling" 70 year old father, chopped him up then buried him in the garden.

He writes: "My own firm of solicitors were forced to close their criminal appeals department at the beginning of 2015. Those of us struggling with exhausting and lengthy appeals know how easy it would be to just give up in the face of obstacle after relent- less obstacle

http://www.thejusticegap.com/2015/05/we-need-our-innocence-projects-now-more-than-ever/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1310848/Law-student-Mark-Alexander-murdered-controlling-father-jailed-16-years.html

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7710.0

http://www.mojuk.org.uk/MOJUK%202015/Mark%20Alexander.html


You really couldn't make this BS up if you tried  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on April 26, 2018, 01:47:20 PM
Just to put the record straight, Mark’s father was not chopped up. This was alleged by the prosecution but was retracted at trial as it had been found to be entirely untrue.  Of course that thought had by then been implanted in the minds of the jury. Manipulation!!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2018, 01:55:11 PM
Just to put the record straight, Mark’s father was not chopped up. This was alleged by the prosecution but was retracted at trial as it had been found to be entirely untrue.  Of course that thought had by then been implanted in the minds of the jury. Manipulation!!!

I apologise Daisy, what words would Mark like us to use to describe how his fathers remains were found?

"He was found guilty of murdering his 70-year-old father, he dismembered his body and buried him under concrete in his garden.
The judge said: "The relationship to some extent involved fear of his father or at least fear of going against his father's wishes. You might have killed him because you couldn't face telling him of your future plans or because you tried to tell him and he disagreed... Not only did you end your father's life in early September last year, you ruined all of your own future prospects."
http://www.thelawpages.com/court-cases/index.php?res=1

"Passing sentence at Reading Crown Court, Judge John Reddihough said he accepted that Alexander may have been in fear of his father, but added that, after his death, he acted in a "despicable, callous and sometimes cunning manner".
Alexander remained impassive as he was taken down to the cells.
Officers found his badly decomposed remains buried under mortar and concrete in the garden. His son had attempted to burn parts of the body in a bid to disguise its identity.
During the course of a six-week trial it emerged that Mark Alexander, who was studying law and French at King's College, London at the time, faked his father's signature in Christmas cards as part of a plan to conceal the murder.
The court was also told of the extent to which his father dominated his son's life.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/student-jailed-for-16-years-for-murdering-father-2075994.html

Mark Alexander appears to be a psychopath. I imagine his pre sentence report will refer to anti social personality disorder or one of the other cluster b personality disorders. He's another con artist and coward.

Why are you wasting your time defending him Daisy? He's a law student. He can defend himself.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3819029/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2018, 02:41:24 PM
Manipulation!!!

I suspect this is second nature for Mark

https://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/dangerous-mind-games-how-psychopaths-manipulate-and-deceive/

Just like it is for Bamber

But the innocent projects and miscarriages of justice organisations won't tell you that because they are only interested in technicalities of law and promoting themselves; furthering their careers etc

Why would psychopathy matter to these people?

And what's the betting Mark wrote the following https://innocent.org.uk/2016/10/16/there-is-little-evidence-as-to-precisely-what-happened-the-murder-of-samuel-alexander/

Just to put the record straight, Mark’s father was not chopped up. This was alleged by the prosecution but was retracted at trial as it had been found to be entirely untrue.  Of course that thought had by then been implanted in the minds of the jury. Manipulation!!!

Daisy, Mark is having you on.

If you re-read much of what you have posted on his behalf; his guilt (and character) is laid bare for all to see.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 07:19:04 AM
I suspect this is second nature for Mark

https://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/dangerous-mind-games-how-psychopaths-manipulate-and-deceive/

Just like it is for Bamber

But the innocent projects and miscarriages of justice organisations won't tell you that because they are only interested in technicalities of law and promoting themselves; furthering their careers etc

Why would psychopathy matter to these people?

And what's the betting Mark wrote the following https://innocent.org.uk/2016/10/16/there-is-little-evidence-as-to-precisely-what-happened-the-murder-of-samuel-alexander/

Daisy, Mark is having you on.

If you re-read much of what you have posted on his behalf; his guilt (and character) is laid bare for all to see.


I will comment on the Mark Alexander thread but we have to bear in mind that there are only two people who know the truth - the victim and the perpetrator. The victim can’t speak as he is dead and the perpetrator may or may not be Mark. None of us know as we weren’t there. There are still many unanswered questions in this complex case.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 10:01:42 AM

I will comment on the Mark Alexander thread but we have to bear in mind that there are only two people who know the truth - the victim and the perpetrator. The victim can’t speak as he is dead and the perpetrator may or may not be Mark. None of us know as we weren’t there. There are still many unanswered questions in this complex case.

Like Jeremy Bamber, Mark Alexander was found guilty in a court of law. If we were all to think this way there would be no need for a criminal justice system.

It's not a "complex case" btw Daisy, that's just the impression Marks wants to portray to his unsuspecting public.

Take away all the smoke and mirrors and what lurks beneath is a dangerous and dysfunctional individual who puts on a mask of sanity.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 10:06:06 AM
Yet more blatant hypocrisy from David on blue:

He states:"I try not to point fingers without anything concrete. The situation with Julie is different, It can be established she lied via closely scrutinizing her evidence. She lied, no doubts about it.
As for the sound moderator I don't think its possible to establish who did what if anything, It can only be narrowed down to a group of possible conspirators. It would be rather hypocritical to do to them what they done to Jeremy ie assume guilt and make accusations.
Somebody made those scratches on the AGA thats for sure.
As for the blood in the silencer. They could ironically use the very same defence that JB did. (the blood was a mixture of Junes and Nevills) Anyway blaming people is something that should be done after a conviction is overturned. Doing such things prior can be counter productuve http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9402.msg438077.html#msg438077
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2018, 10:16:56 AM
I wonder if David's medication is to curtail hallucinations:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9397.msg437919.html#msg437919

"No problem Mike. 

I take medications myself. But I stay away from Alcohol.

Whenever I need a boost I watch and listen to motivational videos like this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW3eatIipjg

Gets me really pumped up"


This might explain his FEB and thinking he can see a difference in LM/RM between June and SC along with defence wounds to adult victims and bloodstains to SC's feet all of which went unnoticed by police and pathologists.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 12:46:35 PM
Here's what Trudi Benjamin retweeted on 26th April 2018

"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68?lang=en
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 27, 2018, 01:04:54 PM
Here's what Trudi Benjamin retweeted on 26th April 2018

"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68?lang=en

Thanks for posting that Stephanie as Trudi Benjamin has blocked me being the coward she is.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2018, 01:16:58 PM
Here's what Trudi Benjamin retweeted on 26th April 2018

"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68?lang=en

See post #3

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9223.msg449459#msg449459
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 01:18:05 PM
Thanks for posting that Stephanie as Trudi Benjamin has blocked me being the coward she is.

Interesting she's blocked you Angelo222
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2018, 02:27:29 PM
Here's what Trudi Benjamin retweeted on 26th April 2018

"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68?lang=en

She is right, the report did conclude that - however, it was before Julie came forward and before forensic tests were returned. If the police wanted to frame Bamber, surely they would have roped Kenneally in on the act and had the report exonerate Sheila?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 02:46:04 PM
Thanks for posting that Stephanie as Trudi Benjamin has blocked me being the coward she is.

I remember that awful feeling of paranoia when I campaigned. Bamber will most probably have them thinking all sorts, when in reality him and his claims are insignificant.

Trudi Benjamin appears to be retweeting the same old false and misleading BS.

"Call logs of telephone calls made to PC 1990 West: They are a contemporaneous log of phone calls received by police on the night of the tragedies. This evidence is of the utmost importance and we need manuscript copies for forensic analysis (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter #JeremyBamber

Same applies to the other Bamber Twitter feeds.

There's nothing new! Just more lies!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 02:57:20 PM
She is right, the report did conclude that - however, it was before Julie came forward and before forensic tests were returned. If the police wanted to frame Bamber, surely they would have roped Kenneally in on the act and had the report exonerate Sheila?

Trudi is not right though Caroline. We all know the police initially believed Sheila was responsible. We know Julie eventually came forward.

Trudi is attempting to go back to the beginning in order to show an innocent Bamber. As you pointed out; this cannot erase what has gone on since. I'm repeating what you posted recently.

Trudi is attempting to mislead

"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

It's deceptive

Why should the report be disclosed? So that Bamber can play his games for another 3 decades?

Wrong case to push for disclosure on IMO. There's nothing withheld that will help Bamber. All it is doing is giving him more time to carry on his charade.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2018, 03:41:36 PM
Trudi is not right though Caroline. We all know the police initially believed Sheila was responsible. We know Julie eventually came forward.

Trudi is attempting to go back to the beginning in order to show an innocent Bamber. As you pointed out; this cannot erase what has gone on since. I'm repeating what you posted recently.

Trudi is attempting to mislead

"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

It's deceptive

Why should the report be disclosed? So that Bamber can play his games for another 3 decades?

Wrong case to push for disclosure on IMO. There's nothing withheld that will help Bamber. All it is doing is giving him more time to carry on his charade.

She is right about Kenneally's conclusions, but as I said, this is before Julie Mugford came forward and the results of various tests were compiled. The reason it's never been fully disclosed is presumably because it is no longer relevant given that it was complied before further evidence was obtained.

After complaints from RWB to ACC Simpson,  ACS Mike Ainsley (the very people that Roch and others believe to be at the heart of the conspiracy), instructed Kenneally to compile said report - his conclusions were murder/suicide and that Sheila was responsible. This was after RWB made his complaint but before Julie came forward. If these top brass were intending on framing Bamber (for whatever reason) then why instruct the report in the first place but having done so, it would have been the perfect opportunity to make sure the results of said report implicated Bamber. That's not what happened and it doesn't make sense for them to leak such conclusions and then change tack after Julie made her statement - it makes them look like fools, which is why the investigation was criticised.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 06:03:38 PM
She is right about Kenneally's conclusions, but as I said, this is before Julie Mugford came forward and the results of various tests were compiled. The reason it's never been fully disclosed is presumably because it is no longer relevant given that it was complied before further evidence was obtained.


I hear what you are saying but the retweet reads to me as though Trudi and co think the Kenneally report is going to contain within it proof Bamber is innocent.

We KNOW it will say no such thing.

Do you think she is knowingly misleading people or do you think she cannot see the wood through the trees?

Do you think she's not realised this was made BEFORE Julie came forward and the results of various tests were compiled?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 06:08:33 PM
After complaints from RWB to ACC Simpson,  ACS Mike Ainsley (the very people that Roch and others believe to be at the heart of the conspiracy), instructed Kenneally to compile said report - his conclusions were murder/suicide and that Sheila was responsible. This was after RWB made his complaint but before Julie came forward. If these top brass were intending on framing Bamber (for whatever reason) then why instruct the report in the first place but having done so, it would have been the perfect opportunity to make sure the results of said report implicated Bamber. That's not what happened and it doesn't make sense for them to leak such conclusions and then change tack after Julie made her statement - it makes them look like fools, which is why the investigation was criticised.

It's been clear to me for a very long time that Roch and people like him really don't have a full grasp of this case. Roch has allowed his conspiracy theories to cloud his judgement, presuming of course his judgement wasn't clouded before he became interested in the Bamber case? That's a debate for another time.


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 06:10:12 PM
She is right about Kenneally's conclusions, but as I said, this is before Julie Mugford came forward and the results of various tests were compiled. The reason it's never been fully disclosed is presumably because it is no longer relevant given that it was complied before further evidence was obtained.

After complaints from RWB to ACC Simpson,  ACS Mike Ainsley (the very people that Roch and others believe to be at the heart of the conspiracy), instructed Kenneally to compile said report - his conclusions were murder/suicide and that Sheila was responsible. This was after RWB made his complaint but before Julie came forward. If these top brass were intending on framing Bamber (for whatever reason) then why instruct the report in the first place but having done so, it would have been the perfect opportunity to make sure the results of said report implicated Bamber. That's not what happened and it doesn't make sense for them to leak such conclusions and then change tack after Julie made her statement - it makes them look like fools, which is why the investigation was criticised.

Great post btw Caroline but will the supporters listen to reason; that is the question?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2018, 06:30:41 PM
Great post btw Caroline but will the supporters listen to reason; that is the question?

Thanks Steph!

When the bear no longer sh*ts in the woods and the Pope converts to Jediism - maybe then, but only 'maybe'  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 27, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
Thanks Steph!

When the bear no longer sh*ts in the woods and the Pope converts to Jediism - maybe then, but only 'maybe'  @)(++(*


There's an addy on the telly which shows bears using loo paper. Conversion MIGHT be closer than you think?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2018, 07:02:30 PM
Surely it brings into question 'supporters' case knowledge? 

I've posted loads of times the report was produced before JM's testimony, the silencer and hand swabs.  There may be other things too but these are aspects that readily spring to mind.   

The report probably states things like all doors and windows secured from within and senior officers were satisfied with murder/suicide. 

Anything incriminating will have been destroyed along with physical exhibits. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 27, 2018, 07:07:56 PM
I wonder if David's medication is to curtail hallucinations:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9397.msg437919.html#msg437919

"No problem Mike. 

I take medications myself. But I stay away from Alcohol.

Whenever I need a boost I watch and listen to motivational videos like this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW3eatIipjg

Gets me really pumped up"


This might explain his FEB and thinking he can see a difference in LM/RM between June and SC along with defence wounds to adult victims and bloodstains to SC's feet all of which went unnoticed by police and pathologists.

David obviously is not part of Bamber's inner circle.

Trudie hasn't posted on the Blue forum since April 2012. Upon the instructions of Jeremy. Everyone within the CT must keep their distance from there.

Although Trudie did have a peek in Blue this month.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 07:10:29 PM
Surely it brings into question 'supporters' case knowledge? 

I've posted loads of times the report was produced before JM's testimony, the silencer and hand swabs.  There may be other things too but these are aspects that readily spring to mind.   

The report probably states things like all doors and windows secured from within and senior officers were satisfied with murder/suicide. 

Anything incriminating will have been destroyed along with physical exhibits.

It brings into question Jeremy Bamber's guilt. That is all
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 07:11:00 PM
Thanks Steph!

When the bear no longer sh*ts in the woods and the Pope converts to Jediism - maybe then, but only 'maybe'  @)(++(*

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2018, 08:12:06 PM
It brings into question Jeremy Bamber's guilt. That is all

How does a report by senior officers saying a review points to SC bring into question JB's guilt?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 09:25:19 PM
How does a report by senior officers saying a review points to SC bring into question JB's guilt?

Hey?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 01:58:23 PM
Most will recall a spokesperson was appointed for the McCanns shortly after MM's disappearance.  The spokesperson, Clarence Mitchell, was at one time a BBC journalist. 

The advanatage of a professional spokesperson is that they can ensure the right messages are getting out into the public domain.  It's not perfect but it's a huge help.

In JB's case pre and post trial the media had a field day.  Whether you believe JB guilty or innocent how the hell does a 24 year old farmer deal with the media who simply want to sell maximum papers with minimum input? 

Post trial the defence lawyers hung around long enough to see through the first failed appeal based on what it considered to be an unfair summing up by the trial judge.  Thereafter the case has gone from pillar to post with all sorts of characters involved.  Most well intentioned and honest.  Some dishonest.  And others incompetent.

- A variety of lawyers most of whom have been incompetent and negligent on a breathtaking scale

- Mike Tesko who once acted as JB's McKenzie friend:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKenzie_friend

- Convicted fraudster and bogus lawyer Giovanni Di Stefano

- Andrew Hunter former Tory MP

- CT/Trudi Benjamin with the disastrous 'Bake-Off' and graveside reading

- To coin a phrase from puglove 'the bird off her tits on sherry'  @)(++(*

With no continuity over case management and all manner of people involved with the media is it surprising JB's case is a complete mess?!

Have you never stopped to consider Jeremy Bamber is the reason why everything he's ever done has failed?

Why blame everyone else?

Apparently Andrew Hunter suffered a stroke in 2014 http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/11258639.Former_Basingstoke_MP_Andrew_Hunter_suffers_a_stroke/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 04:55:05 PM
Minority groups?  @)(++(* Is that mass murders, psychopaths or whole life tariff inmates? (Incidentally, this err 'minority group' has earned two more members!).

His account of his psychological assessment history is also misleading and he knows that! Why the need to mislead?

"Almost 100 killers, rapists and paedophiles who were given life sentences by judges have been released - only to be jailed for life again.
In the last decade, 95 criminals have been let out on parole but have gone on to commit horrific crimes which have resulted in another life sentence.
The shocking figures include 13 violent criminals who were locked up for a second time in 2015.
It means innocent victims have been killed, raped and abused by convicted criminals that the parole board considered were safe to re-enter society


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3614946/Freed-kill-Nearly-100-killers-rapists-paedophiles-life-sentences-released-jailed-life-AGAIN.html#ixzz5Dyz5CMAa


It must then follow that all those life sentence criminals who were deemed low risk and released back into society also conned their way through their prison assessments before being released and offending again

How many people in total (forensic psychologists, members of the parole board, probation officers, mental health workers, etc) would have been conned by these dangerous and disordered individuals and why are they never held to account for their wrong doings?

A scandal indeed!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2018, 08:17:21 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd?lang=en

JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
·
4h
- Movement seen in the window...
- Curtains opened and closed...
- Lights turned off and on...
- I immediately heard a noise upstairs...
- more here: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/-sheila) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/-sheila
click on each picture for evidence... the #JeremyBamber case uncovered
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
I see Maggie has posted in reply to Steve_uk

Posts: 13393
Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 01:38 PM »
Quote from: Steve_uk on Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Well we all agree on something.

"Of course we do. Colin was a victim  as much as anyone. He showed tremendous courage and fortitude. One reason why I am so shocked that JM stayed a weekend in his flat with JB supposedly supporting him when she later claimed she  had known Jenemy was the killer.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9373.msg437322.html#msg437322

Probably for the same reason why I organised Hall's funeral. Maggie again shows her complete and utter lack of comprehension or understanding with regards what men like this do to their victims and the cognitive dissonance sufferered following such an experience. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7TO3aMgNs

Maggie suffers from a selective memory imo

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7980.msg379294.html#msg379294
"Hi Adam,
I do believe a cold blooded murderer has to have some kind of personality disorder, many have been abused as children themselves.  It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo. 
To me the main action is to keep the rest of society safe from such damaged and dangerous individuals so I am up to a point in agreement with Steve's suggestion of a safe island for such people.


The question here is why is Maggie focusing on JM's supposed wrong doings? The term "flying monkies" springs to mind.


7. Cognitive Dissonance
This one involves look within. When a psychopath enters your life, you’ll notice an intense and ever-increasing sense of dread and self-doubt. Your brain will struggle to reconcile the “perfect” person from the beginning, with the inappropriate behavior you’re starting to see more regularly. That’s because that perfect person never actually existed. It was a persona, created just for you. This is the hardest thing for our minds and hearts to understand.
With a psychopath, you’re always the bad one. Even though they lie, cheat, manipulate, steal, and con—you’re the one with the problem. Psychopaths have this innate ability to make you feel like there’s something wrong with you for recognizing that there’s something off about them.https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/top-7-ways-to-spot-a-sociopath-psychopath-or-narcissist.342/

5. Covert Backstabbing and Betrayal
Psychopaths devalue and replace others at the drop of a hat. Although you probably experienced an instant connection of trust and excitement with them, you’ll come to realize they can forge that bond with anyone. After once declaring you better than all the “crazy” people in their life, they’ll go running back to those very same people and declare you crazy. Psychopaths have no loyalty, no attachment, and no love. They leave behind a trail of destruction, and they blame their victims for it every time.

6. Turning People Against Each Other
When a psychopath enters the picture, you’ll find yourself disliking people you’ve never even met. Psychopaths are constantly whispering poison and gossip into everyone’s ears, making each person feel jealous and suspicious of the others. But they do so under a guise of innocence, using pity stories and pseudo-concern to warp your perception. Psychopaths want people distracted and in constant competition for their attention, so they seem in high-demand at all times.


Julie Mugford was GROOMED by Jeremy Bamber http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/grooming Grooming is the predatory act of maneuvering another individual into a position that makes them more isolated, dependent, likely to trust, and more vulnerable to abusive behavior

And Maggie yet again displays her hypocrisy. "It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo. 

She now chooses to not sit in judgement of Bamber but has no problem whatsoever judging JM! Yet again, pathetic and indeed shameful and clearly lacking insight.

She flits between the two and is now an apparant fence sitter? This is what she states today:

"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was  If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry.  I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths.  I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437407.html#msg437407

My opinion, Maggie isn't being honest. She appears unable to be honest through fear of upsetting certain members of the blue forum. Her position as a forum moderator appears to bring her some kind of control. She has a tendency for favouritism and seems to turn on any member who doesn't support Bamber and becomes irrational towards anyone who draws to her attention the error of her ways. Bottom line, she appears unable to admit when she is in the wrong.

Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths.  If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling?  Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral.  *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths.  If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling?  Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral.  *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255

And of course she opposes Amber Rudd, who resigned having held her hands up to her mistakes.


Published 8 March 2018
From: Home Office and Ministry of Justice

Home Secretary Amber Rudd said:
"It is appalling that in twenty-first century Britain, nearly 2 million people every year – the majority of them women – suffer abuse at the hands of those closest to them.
Through this Bill I want to fundamentally change the way we as a country think about domestic abuse, recognising that it is a crime that comes in many forms – physical, emotional, economic. This is about creating a society that protects individuals and families at the earliest opportunity, before such abuse has a chance to escalate.
This is a once in a generation opportunity to transform our entire approach to this terrible crime. I call on everyone, but especially those who have suffered abuse in any form, to speak out and help shape the way we approach this crime for years to come. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-action-to-tackle-domestic-abuse
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 12:08:50 PM
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths.  If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling?  Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral.  *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255

"Men use a range of techniques to achieve coercive control. One of the most valuable
and commonly used techniques is the disguise. This means that men will behave and
present one way when abusing the woman in private (a terroriser), and very differently
when in public, at work or socialising (a charmer). This ability to put on a disguise not
only prevents people detecting his abuse but also acts to confuse and isolate the woman
further. She thinks, ‘maybe there’s something wrong with me because he’s acting so
nice with them.’ In fact in social situations he is cleverly able to act both as a respectable
member of society while sending secret intimidating signals to the woman that only
she will understand.
https://www.whiteribbon.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/From_violence_to_coercive_control_Fisher_2011.pdf

"This is exactly how I perceive Jeremy Bamber.
Statistics suggests an abuser is 60-80% more likely to use coercive control over a partner as opposed to physical assault which is 20 - 40% more likely
So whilst it has been suggested Jeremy Bamber hasn't presented with examples of physical violence, which I disagree with, he has displayed high levels of coercive control.
Many people have questioned why Julie Mugford stayed with Jeremy Bamber for as long as she did and why she didn't go to the police sooner. The answers to these questions are complex but again can be explained in terms of the coercive control she had been subjected to by Bamber, much of which would have been invisible to outsiders looking in.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8069.0.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 12:24:54 PM
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths.  If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling?  Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral.  *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255

Coercive control is a crime which Maggie appears oblivious to as indeed do the Jeremy Bamber campaign team
http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/#What%20is%20coercive%20control?


"What researchers, practitioners, and policymakers in much of the world now appreciate is that the significance of physical and sexual violence in male partner abuse derives from their role as part of an ongoing and multi-faceted strategy to subordinate women. This strategy is designed to deprive women of their autonomy, dignity, and their basic rights and resources; extends over time and through social space via various forms of surveillance, harassment, and stalking; and encompasses a range of tactics that hurt women, make them afraid, isolate them, and subject them to what the Council of Europe has called “arbitrary violations of liberty.”

See more at: http://blog.oup.com/2016/04/from-domestic-violence-to-coercive-control/#sthash.U7YhpMb4.dpuf

Though this excerpt doesn't make it clear, these strategies can also apply to women who have been psychological abused.  http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8069.msg381803.html#msg381803
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 12:50:35 PM
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths.  If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling?  Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral.  *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255

Maggie, and others, who choose to continuinely publicly abuse Julie Mugford, are ultimately accomplices of Jeremy Bamber's and his quite apparent pattern of coercive controlling behaviour towards JM.

It should be reminded that Jeremy Bamber is serving a full life sentence for mass murder. Julie Mugford is not!

Whilst Maggie bleats on about others treating people like "second class citizens" she has no problem treating Julie Mugford, and others, in this manner. Pot and kettle spring to mind.  *&^^&

She states: "it's so disgusting to treat people this way as though they were second class citizens.   

This: "The wholend thing is disgusting.  Saying 'sorry' is not enough these are human tragedies. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9410.msg438281.html#msg438281

And this: "If Julie knew JB was the murderer and stayed at Colin"s flat commiserating with him about the death of his boys then she should not be mentioned in the dame breath either.  I cannot see how anyone can excuse such behavour. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438220.html#msg438220
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 01:09:16 PM
Maggie, and others, who choose to continuinely publicly abuse Julie Mugford, are ultimately accomplices of Jeremy Bamber's and his quite apparent pattern of coercive controlling behaviour towards JM.

It should be reminded that Jeremy Bamber is serving a full life sentence for mass murder. Julie Mugford is not!

Whilst Maggie bleats on about others treating people like "second class citizens" she has no problem treating Julie Mugford, and others, in this manner. Pot and kettle spring to mind.  *&^^&

She states: "it's so disgusting to treat people this way as though they were second class citizens.   

This: "The wholend thing is disgusting.  Saying 'sorry' is not enough these are human tragedies. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9410.msg438281.html#msg438281

And this: "If Julie knew JB was the murderer and stayed at Colin"s flat commiserating with him about the death of his boys then she should not be mentioned in the dame breath either.  I cannot see how anyone can excuse such behavour. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438220.html#msg438220

Julie Mugford was another victim of Jeremy Bamber's.

I would however like Maggie to explain by what she thinks JM knew? Based on a previous post, she claims none of us know anything because we weren't there when the murders occurred?

Her changing of the goal posts to suit her agenda at any given time are telling..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 01:19:00 PM
Jeremy Bamber is skating on thin ice with regards his coercive controlling pattern of behaviour towards Julie Mugford. He may be imprisoned but the authorities can still intervene and impose sanctions on him and indeed his supporters if need be.

"Your abuser will be guilty of the offence of coercive control if

he is personally connected to you, and
his behaviour has had a serious effect on you, and
your abuser knew or ought to have known that his behaviour would have a serious effect on you.
http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/#What%20is%20coercive%20control?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 30, 2018, 01:21:49 PM
Bamber would have thought Julie would not retract on her first WS she gave on the 7th August.

He would have warned her not to while simultaneously telling her he was 'watertight' & impressing her with holidays & gifts.

It would have been Bamber's decision to see Colin Caffell. Julie going along because she was Bamber's girlfriend. Simultaneously she was getting ready to approach the police.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
Bamber would have thought Julie would not retract on her first WS she gave on the 7th August.

He would have warned her not to while simultaneously telling her he was 'watertight' & impressing her with holidays & gifts.

It would have been Bamber's decision to see Colin Caffell. Julie going along because she was Bamber's girlfriend. Simultaneously she was getting ready to approach the police.

The Court and many of us have seen the intercepted letter Jeremy Bamber attempted to send Julie Mugford Adam. It's in the public domain, on the blue forum! I can't find the letter here?

None of us know how she actually felt at that time as she has yet to speak openly about it but that doesn't mean she won't!

Maggie is a moderator of the blue forum and as such is fully aware of the numerous threats made towards ALL the victims in this case and other cases I might add.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 01:45:03 PM
"Coercive control is when a person with whom you are personally connected, repeatedly behaves in a way which makes you feel controlled, dependent, isolated or scared.

The following types of behaviour are common examples of coercive control:

isolating you from your friends and family

controlling how much money you have and how you spend it

monitoring your activities and your movements

repeatedly putting you down, calling you names or telling you that you are worthless

threatening to harm or kill you or your child

threatening to publish information about you or to report you to the police or the authorities

damaging your property or household goods

forcing you to take part in criminal activity or child abuse

Many of Daisy's post here on Jeremy Bamber are IMO suggestive of coercive control. It's a shame she didn't persue this matter via the correct channels. http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/#What%20is%20coercive%20control?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 02:04:06 PM
Bamber would have thought Julie would not retract on her first WS she gave on the 7th August.

He would have warned her not to while simultaneously telling her he was 'watertight' & impressing her with holidays & gifts.

I agree Adam. Individuals like Bamber who think they can exert power and control over their victims slip up in the end.


"What I accept is Julie has been subjected to decades of abuse because of her involvement with Jeremy Bamber, as indeed have others, and this abuse has been rationalised by many in order to support there agendas. There has been much suggestion of her complicity into the murders which leaves me questioning why these suggestions are made in the first place.
Many people are unaware of the consequences of abusive partners in romantic relationships nor of the strategies employed by these abusers. Julie Mugford's witness statements clearly also demonstrates Bamber's strategies of entrapment and control and thankfully the police recognised this when she finally came forward. They are to be congratulated for this aspect of their investigations, not condemned imo.
She was not a scorned women as some have suggested she was a victim of psychological torture. There is a vast difference between the two.
And because of what she had been subjected to by Bamber it is understandable why she made the odd one or two mistakes whilst giving live evidence.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8069.msg381801.html#msg381801


"I believe it's highly likely he did say both to her. She was merely the messenger of the message. He knew if she repeated what he'd said it was unlikely she would be believed.  Thankfully the police eventually recognised Julie was a victim of psychological manipulation at the hands of Bamber.
That's one of the ways men like him confuse their victims. It a mind control tactic. It helps them to deplete their victim of reality. What is left behind is cognitive dissonance. Holding 2 conflicting thoughts.
She most possible also suffered something akin to stockholm syndrome. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8069.msg381844.html#msg381844
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 30, 2018, 07:56:27 PM
The Court and many of us have seen the intercepted letter Jeremy Bamber attempted to send Julie Mugford Adam. It's in the public domain, on the blue forum! I can't find the letter here?

None of us know how she actually felt at that time as she has yet to speak openly about it but that doesn't mean she won't!

Maggie is a moderator of the blue forum and as such is fully aware of the numerous threats made towards ALL the victims in this case and other cases I might add.

ModMaggie doesn't care what's posted about the relatives and has been as guilty as anyone in the past for pathetic bitchy comments against them, particularly towards AE.
 
I see that they've dug JackieDPreece up.  Always good for a laugh but I've not been able to take her seriously since I found a photo of her.  @)(++(*
No number of negative comments towards Julie will ever change anything, the case is more complex than those who bleat on about JM and the NOTW will ever be able to comprehend.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 08:28:33 PM
ModMaggie doesn't care what's posted about the relatives and has been as guilty as anyone in the past for pathetic bitchy comments against them, particularly towards AE.

No number of negative comments towards Julie will ever change anything, the case is more complex than those who bleat on about JM and the NOTW will ever be able to comprehend.

Bit more than negative comment IMO

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=17.msg459258#msg459258
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on April 30, 2018, 08:35:33 PM
Bit more than negative comment IMO

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=17.msg459258#msg459258

Actually, yeah I think it's fair to say they're worse than negative. There is a jealous streak throughout the comments towards Julie, I'll never understand why.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 08:44:56 PM
Actually, yeah I think it's fair to say they're worse than negative. There is a jealous streak throughout the comments towards Julie, I'll never understand why.

Jeremy Bamber has a habit of making his supporters look bad http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=792.msg459256#msg459256 and vice versa

Bamber states: "You will be proven right very soon"   *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 09:01:49 PM
Actually, yeah I think it's fair to say they're worse than negative. There is a jealous streak throughout the comments towards Julie, I'll never understand why.

I wonder if Bamber ever spoke to Daisy about JM?

Goatboy I have thought about this and maybe she made up a story (she is after all a  liar and actress re her behaviour after the murders) and never realised the full consequences of her actions. Once she had started she set the ball rolling.
She made it clear how jealous she was and that is a dangerous trait.
I have had long conversations with Jeremy and mentioned Mugford many times and he doesn't seem to hate her at all which surprises me but he did tell me when he wanted to split with Mugford she went mad because her mothers husband used to treat his wife very badly (violence) and Jeremy had put a stop to it by having words with him.
Mugford said to Jeremy if he wasn't around anymore the trouble would start again.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=937.msg29070#msg29070
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 09:47:21 PM
Jeremy Bamber is skating on thin ice with regards his coercive controlling pattern of behaviour towards Julie Mugford. He may be imprisoned but the authorities can still intervene and impose sanctions on him and indeed his supporters if need be.

"Your abuser will be guilty of the offence of coercive control if

he is personally connected to you, and
his behaviour has had a serious effect on you, and
your abuser knew or ought to have known that his behaviour would have a serious effect on you.
http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/#What%20is%20coercive%20control?

"Julie, now 36, said: "I thought this was long in the past. The last few weeks have been a nightmare. As far as I am concerned nothing has changed - I sincerely believe he is guilty. Do I stand by my original story? Yes, absolutely. I always assumed he would be in jail for life.

"And while I fully accept that new forensic techniques could throw new light on the case I still believe he is guilty. He has a right to appeal, that is the law. It is just very hard for me to accept.
"At this stage the appeal process is so sketchy that I have no idea what is going on."

A friend added: "It is something Julie has never really recovered from. Ultimately it was her evidence that put him behind bars and it is something she still has nightmares about. She still grieves for his family and wonders if she could have averted the murders by telling the police about his scheming beforehand."

Julie now fears she could be called to give evidence at the appeal - and last week she consulted Canadian lawyers for advice.

"She dreads having to face Bamber again in court. And she's afraid he could come after her and her family if he is freed. It's tragic. She has been so happy here in Canada."
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2018, 09:50:31 PM
"Julie, now 36, said: "I thought this was long in the past. The last few weeks have been a nightmare. As far as I am concerned nothing has changed - I sincerely believe he is guilty. Do I stand by my original story? Yes, absolutely. I always assumed he would be in jail for life.

"And while I fully accept that new forensic techniques could throw new light on the case I still believe he is guilty. He has a right to appeal, that is the law. It is just very hard for me to accept.
"At this stage the appeal process is so sketchy that I have no idea what is going on."

A friend added: "It is somethingJulie has never really recovered from. Ultimately it was her evidence that put him behind bars and it is something she still has nightmares about. She still grieves for his family and wonders if she could have averted the murders by telling the police about his scheming beforehand."

Julie now fears she could be called to give evidence at the appeal - and last week she consulted Canadian lawyers for advice.

"She dreads having to face Bamber again in court. And she's afraid he could come after her and her family if he is freed. It's tragic. She has been so happy here in Canada."



http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,675.msg17468.html#msg17468
"That's not strictly true and you know it so lets stop making up nonsense.  It was Julie who made the first moves in that particular direction, domestic violence is as good a reason as any for leaving a violent relationship.

She and Jeremy spent the following weekend with Colin and on 12 August she went to the house in Goldhanger with Jeremy. There he told her that the police had been a bit slack because they had not done all the fingerprinting at White House Farm. On 16 August Julie attended the funerals of Nevill and June with Jeremy and then on 19 August the funerals of Sheila and her children. During that period she spoke of Jeremy taking her out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her. She described his mood during this period as “very happy”. After one of the funerals they drank champagne and cocktails.

Julie spent the weekend of 17-18 August 1985 with him in Eastbourne and it was then that she began to ask how he could behave as he was doing. She kept telling him “£2,000 for 5 lives”. The following week the couple went to Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out. On 27 August Julie returned alone to her lodgings in London and she told her friend Susan Battersby of what Jeremy had done.

On Saturday 31 August Julie asked Jeremy whether he loved her. He said he did not know. Again they spoke about the murders. Julie said she could not cope with him behaving so normally and asked why he had told her what had happened. She said she felt guilt for the two of them. Jeremy told her he was doing everybody a favour and there was nothing to feel guilty about. Later that night he told her that she was the best friend he had ever had and he had entrusted his life to her.

On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila. Again Julie raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation Jeremy received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Julie heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped him. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. 4 days later, she went to the police.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 01, 2018, 09:12:32 PM
I think it's shameless the way the CT have latched on to the case of Liam Allan and are using his name and face to promote Bamber! I guess they think they are being subtle - they AREN'T! Think he's been through enough FFS!

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/dec/19/police-non-disclosure-should-lead-to-reform

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on May 01, 2018, 10:23:39 PM
I think it's shameless the way the CT have latched on to the case of Liam Allan and are using his name and face to promote Bamber! I guess they think they are being subtle - they AREN'T! Think he's been through enough FFS!

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/dec/19/police-non-disclosure-should-lead-to-reform

It would be interesting to know if he is aware of Bamber. Any idea who's representing him?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 01, 2018, 10:49:38 PM
It would be interesting to know if he is aware of Bamber. Any idea who's representing him?

He's a millennial so doubt he has an awareness although I think he was studying forensic science so maybe I'm wrong.  I know JB's case is covered in A level law syllabus. 

I've asked around acquaintances, friends and family what does the name Jeremy Bamber mean and no one has any idea including people in 40's, 50's plus. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 01, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435

Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
  Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words


Jackie is the 'D' for Doris?   8(0(*


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on May 01, 2018, 11:26:31 PM
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435

Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
  Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words


Jackie is the 'D' for Doris?   8(0(*

Diane  8(0(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 02, 2018, 05:20:26 AM
Supporters who are not in contact with Bamber or part of the OS/CT will post on the Blue forum instead. 

Mike was discarded by Bamber years ago. Nigel is new on the scene but Bamber would reject any advances from him. Nugs, Roch & Lookout have never done anything away from the forum.

David tried to get into Bamber's inner circle with his 2016 'forensic evidence breakthrough,' . He then claimed he went to a meeting with Bamber's legal advisors. This obviously did not happen as he still posts on Blue.  Last week admitting 'I investigate this case on my own terms in my own time.'

Trudie stopped posting on Blue in 2012 upon the instruction of Bamber. He would have also told her to stop the weekly vlogs. Which was a pity as I enjoyed them.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 09:48:55 AM
I think it's shameless the way the CT have latched on to the case of Liam Allan and are using his name and face to promote Bamber! I guess they think they are being subtle - they AREN'T! Think he's been through enough FFS!

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/dec/19/police-non-disclosure-should-lead-to-reform

Do you think the Campaign Team put the idea into Peter Tatchells head?

Maybe someone should contact Peter Tatchell here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/ and explain how he has been manipulated?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 09:52:46 AM
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435

Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
  Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words


Jackie is the 'D' for Doris?   8(0(*

I not sure I entirely agree with this Holly.

This is what Daisy stated:

"Many have never written, spoken to or met him.  This is why I have decided to share with you the friendship I have had with Jeremy for almost three years. He was, I thought one of my dearest and closest friends but I seriously misjudged this man.  This will probably be a long post so I will do it in chunks so you don't get bored!
I started writing to Jeremy sometime ago after reading new information about the case and feeling that all didn't seem right.  I live not far from Essex so have always read about his case in the local papers.  I very soon became involved in the Campaign and typed some of the documents for his last CCRC submissions.  I have also done all I can to ask those in power to listen and have written to my MP,  the Prime Minister,the MOJ, the Home Secretary, CPS, IPCC etc.  I have had conversations with officials at the CCRC and also exchanged emails and spoken on the phone to Professional Standards at Essex Police. I also phoned some of the scientists who examined the sound moderator who were very pleasant towards me but adament they had come to the right conclusion. The Campaign Team told me that I was getting more results and responses than themselves.  When the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while, I never heard from them again and my emails went unanswered. 


Daisy states "the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while"

Daisy doesn't say why the Campaign closed down for a while or indeed what she means by this or why she thought it was mysterious?

What happened for her to think this in the first instance and did she find out who was at the bottom of it?

How did Daisy come to the conclusion that the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while?

Because I have a suspicion Jeremy Bamber was behind the way Daisy was treated; IMO this in not dissimilar to the Stephanie Bon/Simon Hall family fiasco.

I'm of the firm belief Daisy witnessed Bamber when his mask of sanity slipped and after that Bamber went all out in an attempt to discredit Daisy in order to keep the heat off of him.

Daisy states "I seriously misjudged this man" and she goes on in further posts saying why she seriously misjudged Bamber.

The fact Daisy found the courage to post publicly about all this gives me with the impression Jeremy Bamber had to attempt to destroy her credibility.

It's clear from her posts she was at one time very much involved in helping Bamber, and as she states, she was getting results for him.

But what was it that Jeremy Ba,beer didn't like about the results she was getting for him?

Did he back track?

Did he slip up again?

What was in those CCRC submissions Daisy typed out for him?

He clearly wasn't happy with something and I would suggest it was more than just the money.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 10:33:13 AM
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435

Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
  Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words


Jackie is the 'D' for Doris?   8(0(*

Daisy goes on:

"Jeremy and I spoke on the phone two or three times a week and I sent him a generous monthly allowance. 

We shared our hopes and dreams and I always told him he was an extended part of my family.  I just wanted him to feel that he belonged and I told him I would always support him no matter what. 

He always told me I was one of his closest friends and one of the only people he could trust


When I went on holiday, he made me promise to email him, he always phoned me on Christmas day and I truly believed our friendship was genuine


I continued to do whatever I could to help him, even tracking down a retired senior Essex Police Officer for his help which he initially said he would do, then asked me never to contact him again! 

Jeremy has sent me many documents which have never been in the public domain but I can say that none of them absolutely proved his innocence. There is one though, which indicates that there MAY have been life inside the house while Jeremy was outside but that needs investigating further.

Jeremy is witty, makes me laugh and usually cheeful in spite of the conditions he lives under.I discovered though that he has a dark side

He was often very evasive when I asked him questions about the case and if I ever disagreed with a piece of evidence or events, he would turn on me and shout and swear

He told me lots of lies and in the end I took everything he said with a pinch of salt

On my birthday last year, he sent me a lovely card telling me what a special friend I was and he promised to be with me to celebrate in 2014.  Then things changed drasticall between us





Daisy quite clearly hasn't made any of this up, she has no reason to do so.

But what she has done is describe the same man Julie Mugford and surviving family relatives described. The same man many of us have described.

I remain firm in my opinion that it is Jeremy Bamber who treats the Campaign Team as HIS property, NOT the other way round.

The difference with the other CT members is they do not have Daisy's courage or strength to stand up and be counted.


To recap:

Daisy sent Bamber a generous monthly allowance
They shared their hopes and dreams
She was one of his closest friends and one of the only people he could trust
When she went on holiday, he made her promise to email him
Jeremy is witty, made her laugh and usually cheeful in spite of the conditions he lives under
She discovered though that he has a dark side
He was often very evasive when she asked him questions about the case and if she ever disagreed with a piece of evidence or events, he would turn on her and shout and swear. 
He told her lots of lies and in the end she took everything he said with a pinch of salt
On her birthday last year, he sent her a lovely card telling her what a special friend she was, then things changed drasticall between them
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435

Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
  Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words


Jackie is the 'D' for Doris?   8(0(*

I suspect when Trudi Benjamin recognises Jeremy Bamber for the psychopath he is, if she hasn't done so already, she will speak out just as Daisy has done
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 11:01:57 AM
Daisy continues:
"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests.  He demanded I send him £4,000.  Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials.  He told me to mind my own business and just pay up.  He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan.  He was very threatening and abusive.  When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim."  I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call.  For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him.  He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.  He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay.  I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them".   That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.  I now realise I was there purely for the money.  I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him.  I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend.  This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy.  I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have?  Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside.  I feel desperately sorry for him.


I think it was Jeremy Bamber who wanted Daisy to pay for the tests NOT him and the campaign team. I think he uses the CT for leverage

I will go further and say I imagine Bamber treats each and every one of the CT members as he has done with Daisy but they either make excuses for him, are serving their own agendas, or are too afraid to speak out.

Well done to Daisy for speaking out  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2018, 11:04:34 AM
Do you think the Campaign Team put the idea into Peter Tatchells head?

Maybe someone should contact Peter Tatchell here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/ and explain how he has been manipulated?

No, personally, I would be surprised if Liam Allan knows his face is on Bamber's official site. In my opinion it seems to be a clever manipulation of Liam's story using HIS face to legitimate Bambers cause.

I can understand why they are using the 'non-disclosure' aspect to promote Bamber but using Liam Allan's face (who is clearly a MOJ victim) is naughty. If they asked permission then fine but going on past exploits - I doubt they bothered!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 11:23:20 AM
No, personally, I would be surprised if Liam Allan knows his face is on Bamber's official site. In my opinion it seems to be a clever manipulation of Liam's story using HIS face to legitimate Bambers cause.

Here are Mr Allan's legal teams details as of Jan 2018, for anyone who may be interested.

"Simone Meerabux, a partner at the law firm Lam & Meerabux in Croydon, said she was disappointed by the joint Metropolitan police-Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) report into the case of Liam Allan and added that he would probably seek compensation.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/30/met-police-and-cps-apologise-to-man-after-collapse-of-case

I don't think it's a clever manipulation tactic but it is most definitely a manipulation tactic!

I agree with you Caroline; it's sick! As if Mr Allen hasn't been through enough now to be linked by his case and photograph to a mass murderer!? But it is a manipulation tactic deployed by many of those in the MOJ community.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 11:34:50 AM
Daisy continues:
"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests.  He demanded I send him £4,000.  Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials.  He told me to mind my own business and just pay up.  He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan.  He was very threatening and abusive.  When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim."  I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call.  For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him.  He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.  He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay.  I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them".   That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.  I now realise I was there purely for the money.  I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him.  I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend.  This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy.  I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have?  Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside.  I feel desperately sorry for him.


I think it was Jeremy Bamber who wanted Daisy to pay for the tests NOT him and the campaign team. I think he uses the CT for leverage

I will go further and say I imagine Bamber treats each and every one of the CT members as he has done with Daisy but they either make excuses for him, are serving their own agendas, or are too afraid to speak out.

Well done to Daisy for speaking out  8((()*/


The other question of course is did Bamber need £4000 for tests or was this all part of the con?

I've seen no evidence for his claims.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 11:38:48 AM
Do you think the Campaign Team put the idea into Peter Tatchells head?

Maybe someone should contact Peter Tatchell here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/ and explain how he has been manipulated?

I imagine if Peter Tachell learned of the fact a Jeremy Bamber supporter has made public death threats towards Bambers surviving victims, as a human rights campaigner he would quite possible drop all association?

Same applies to Kerry Daynes and what she has gone though to date. http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-19/strangers-website-offer-escalated-to-terrifying-stalking-ordeal-for-tv-forensic-psychologist-kerry-daynes/

Allegedly started by a Jeremy Bamber supporter?

Jeremy Bamber gives his views on Kerry Daynes her http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy

And Kerry Daynes alledgly states:

She said:
“I have had problems from supporters of serial killers, torturers
and rapists.
“There has been some unwanted attention and I even had to take an injunction
out on someone who was stalking me.
“It is still ongoing at court but I came to the attention of someone connected
to mass murderer Jeremy Bamber.
“They were constantly pestering me on the internet and I had to take legal
action.

“It is scary but generally, by and large, people who recognise me tend to just
be interested in what I do.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/tv/1031939/murder-expert-says-she-is-being-stalked/


"Reoffending rates have also increased under the Conservatives’ tenure and the government was heavily criticised for putting the public at risk and increasing the number of convicts recalled to jail by part-privatising the probation service.
Mr Wheatley said the existence of a nationwide prisons crisis unleashed by the failures was “undeniable”, with the staggering rise in violence starting in 2013.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prisons-uk-jails-crisis-cuts-conservatives-david-gauke-phil-wheatley-a8318806.html


Jeremy Bamber is at present being allowed to reoffend on a considerable scale. Coercive control is a crime http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/

I wonder how long it takes before Her Majesty’s Prison & Probation Service intervene in relation to prisoners like Bamber and how long it is before reforms are put in place in order to put an end to these prisoners manipulation and exploitation of members of the public?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 12:01:25 PM
Presumably in relation to Trudi Benjamin, Lookout states:
"At least the woman has put her money where her mouth is which is more than anyone else has done to set the ball rolling for Jeremy.

NGB replies with: "Not quite right lookout.  Others have also made serious efforts.

NGB then states:
"There have been a number of people who have at different times contributed a lot in terms of both time and effort and also money.  Some have publicly supported JB, others have supported behind the scenes.  Unfortunately jealousy and petty internal politics sometimes gets in the way. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438465.html#msg438465

There have been a number of people who Jeremy Bamber has conned and jealousy and petty internal politics has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

The petty and jealous individual behind it ALL is Jeremy Bamber!

NGB was conned by Bamber he just doesn't have the guts to openly admit so on the forum he moderates and like some of Bambers victims before him, he attempts to make excuses and blame others in the hope it will deflect from the facts.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 12:37:21 PM
Presumably in relation to Trudi Benjamin, Lookout states:
"At least the woman has put her money where her mouth is which is more than anyone else has done to set the ball rolling for Jeremy.

NGB replies with: "Not quite right lookout.  Others have also made serious efforts.

NGB then states:
"There have been a number of people who have at different times contributed a lot in terms of both time and effort and also money.  Some have publicly supported JB, others have supported behind the scenes.  Unfortunately jealousy and petty internal politics sometimes gets in the way. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438465.html#msg438465

There have been a number of people who Jeremy Bamber has conned and jealousy and petty internal politics has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

The petty and jealous individual behind it ALL is Jeremy Bamber!

NGB was conned by Bamber he just doesn't have the guts to openly admit so on the forum he moderates and like some of Bambers victims before him, he attempts to make excuses and blame others in the hope it will deflect from the facts.

Lookout goes on to state:
"She's gone about some things the wrong way nugs. Instead of doing " bake-offs and graveside visits " she'd have been as well beginning from the real heart of the matter without any " flowery " bits. People aren't interested or are put off by what they'd class as a " psychopathic child murderer " being involved in such fripperies-------------it doesn't gel even if he were guilty.
Trudi may have got the message of late by seemingly abandoning her " Vlogs " and having less to say on the more lighter side to this crime which added nothing to the job in hand.



How do any of us know Jeremy Bamber wasn't behind it all?

Surely Trudi Benjamin and company sought his permission before doing what they did?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 12:42:20 PM
Do you think the Campaign Team put the idea into Peter Tatchells head?

Maybe someone should contact Peter Tatchell here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/ and explain how he has been manipulated?

The Peter Tatchell foundation can be contacted here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/contact/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 02, 2018, 12:48:56 PM
Daisy continues:
"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests.  He demanded I send him £4,000.  Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials.  He told me to mind my own business and just pay up.  He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan.  He was very threatening and abusive.  When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim."  I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call.  For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him.  He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.  He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay.  I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them".   That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.  I now realise I was there purely for the money.  I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him.  I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend.  This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy.  I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have?  Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside.  I feel desperately sorry for him.


I think it was Jeremy Bamber who wanted Daisy to pay for the tests NOT him and the campaign team. I think he uses the CT for leverage

I will go further and say I imagine Bamber treats each and every one of the CT members as he has done with Daisy but they either make excuses for him, are serving their own agendas, or are too afraid to speak out.

Well done to Daisy for speaking out  8((()*/

In my view Bamber is extremely dangerous and an expert manipulator.  Surely it's time the authorities blocked all communications emanating from this murdering b........ thus ensuring that he doesn't rip off any other women.  I cannot see Bamber ever being released because of his activities.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 01:05:48 PM
In my view Bamber is extremely dangerous and an expert manipulator.  Surely it's time the authorities blocked all communications emanating from this murdering b........ thus ensuring that he doesn't rip off any other women.  I cannot see Bamber ever being released because of his activities.

Agreed Angelo222!

David Gauke is the person to complain to https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/transparency-of-the-parole-board-and-victim-support

Whilst Daisy wishes to remain annoynous, those opposed to Jeremy Bamber's attempts at being above the law, could include Daisy's posts regsrding Bamber to support their complaint.

UK prisons have a duty of care to the public and their duty is to ensure men like Jeremy Bamber do not pose a risk to the public. Risk factors do not just include risks to life and limb, there are the psychological risk factors also.

A judical review into Jeremy Bambers psychological risks to the public should be called for IMO.

He was after all branded by the trial Judge as being "evil beyond belief."

The problem of course is that many of Jeremy Bamber's victims (precious supporters) do not understand psychopathy and that these "evil" men can appear like you and I. Rather than recognise his psychopathy they excuse it, because of their lack of understanding into these dangerous and highly disordered individuals.

Actions of course speak louder than words.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 01:24:29 PM
In my view Bamber is extremely dangerous and an expert manipulator.  Surely it's time the authorities blocked all communications emanating from this murdering b........ thus ensuring that he doesn't rip off any other women.  I cannot see Bamber ever being released because of his activities.

And men  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 01:31:34 PM
I imagine if Peter Tachell learned of the fact a Jeremy Bamber supporter has made public death threats towards Bambers surviving victims, as a human rights campaigner he would quite possible drop all association?

Same applies to Kerry Daynes and what she has gone though to date. http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-19/strangers-website-offer-escalated-to-terrifying-stalking-ordeal-for-tv-forensic-psychologist-kerry-daynes/

Allegedly started by a Jeremy Bamber supporter?

Jeremy Bamber gives his views on Kerry Daynes her http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy

And Kerry Daynes alledgly states:

She said:
“I have had problems from supporters of serial killers, torturers
and rapists.
“There has been some unwanted attention and I even had to take an injunction
out on someone who was stalking me.
“It is still ongoing at court but I came to the attention of someone connected
to mass murderer Jeremy Bamber.
“They were constantly pestering me on the internet and I had to take legal
action.

“It is scary but generally, by and large, people who recognise me tend to just
be interested in what I do.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/tv/1031939/murder-expert-says-she-is-being-stalked/


"Reoffending rates have also increased under the Conservatives’ tenure and the government was heavily criticised for putting the public at risk and increasing the number of convicts recalled to jail by part-privatising the probation service.
Mr Wheatley said the existence of a nationwide prisons crisis unleashed by the failures was “undeniable”, with the staggering rise in violence starting in 2013.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prisons-uk-jails-crisis-cuts-conservatives-david-gauke-phil-wheatley-a8318806.html


Jeremy Bamber is at present being allowed to reoffend on a considerable scale. Coercive control is a crime http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/

I wonder how long it takes before Her Majesty’s Prison & Probation Service intervene in relation to prisoners like Bamber and how long it is before reforms are put in place in order to put an end to these prisoners manipulation and exploitation of members of the public?

Nigel's death threats cannot be erased. They were posted by Nigel and he continues today:

"Yes Lookout, but they (mugford, boutflour, eaton) will find this a flippin' problem...

Nigel resembles Kerry Daynes harasser/stalker in many ways IMO, though of course Nigel has made direct death threats on a public forum dedicated to claiming Jeremy Bamber is innocent.

Nigel also states:
"We have the makings of a 'Best of Jeremy Bamber 33 years' CD
I vote all proceeds should go towards MUGFORD'S, DAVID BOUTFLOUR's AND ANN EATON'S food parcels.
I have a kind heart.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 02, 2018, 01:46:42 PM
Angelo222/Sephanie

I'm not sure exactly what it is you're unhappy about?  Is it against the law?  If not then what's the problem? 

Apart from tiny communities on 2/3 forums, the CT and a few people closely affiliated no one is remotely interested in Jeremy Bamber.  It's not a hot topic of conversation up and down the country. Compare the numbers at any one time contributing/visiting the MM board compared with this one. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 02, 2018, 01:51:09 PM
I not sure I entirely agree with this Holly.

This is what Daisy stated:

"Many have never written, spoken to or met him.  This is why I have decided to share with you the friendship I have had with Jeremy for almost three years. He was, I thought one of my dearest and closest friends but I seriously misjudged this man.  This will probably be a long post so I will do it in chunks so you don't get bored!
I started writing to Jeremy sometime ago after reading new information about the case and feeling that all didn't seem right.  I live not far from Essex so have always read about his case in the local papers.  I very soon became involved in the Campaign and typed some of the documents for his last CCRC submissions.  I have also done all I can to ask those in power to listen and have written to my MP,  the Prime Minister,the MOJ, the Home Secretary, CPS, IPCC etc.  I have had conversations with officials at the CCRC and also exchanged emails and spoken on the phone to Professional Standards at Essex Police. I also phoned some of the scientists who examined the sound moderator who were very pleasant towards me but adament they had come to the right conclusion. The Campaign Team told me that I was getting more results and responses than themselves.  When the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while, I never heard from them again and my emails went unanswered. 


Daisy states "the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while"

Daisy doesn't say why the Campaign closed down for a while or indeed what she means by this or why she thought it was mysterious?

What happened for her to think this in the first instance and did she find out who was at the bottom of it?

How did Daisy come to the conclusion that the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while?

Because I have a suspicion Jeremy Bamber was behind the way Daisy was treated; IMO this in not dissimilar to the Stephanie Bon/Simon Hall family fiasco.

I'm of the firm belief Daisy witnessed Bamber when his mask of sanity slipped and after that Bamber went all out in an attempt to discredit Daisy in order to keep the heat off of him.

Daisy states "I seriously misjudged this man" and she goes on in further posts saying why she seriously misjudged Bamber.

The fact Daisy found the courage to post publicly about all this gives me with the impression Jeremy Bamber had to attempt to destroy her credibility.

It's clear from her posts she was at one time very much involved in helping Bamber, and as she states, she was getting results for him.

But what was it that Jeremy Ba,beer didn't like about the results she was getting for him?

Did he back track?

Did he slip up again?

What was in those CCRC submissions Daisy typed out for him?

He clearly wasn't happy with something and I would suggest it was more than just the money.

I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 02, 2018, 01:59:39 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9415.msg438483.html#msg438483

Here is Nigel's latest thread. Not sure how this or his 'countdown' thread shows Bamber is innocent. But everyone has their roles on the forum
 
Nugs blames Robert Boutflour & Mike has his theories. David is more of a Bamber defender. Foucusing on a guilter with his images, posters, 'gish gash' posts or former quotes, if anything which incriminates Bamber is posted.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:01:11 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

Thank you for clarifying this Daisy! It's good to see you posting again!

Did he give you Simon McKays bank details? I know nothing about Simon McKay but I do know not all solicitors are what they say they are.

This is interesting Daisy.

You have my full support exposing the truth regarding Bamber, as I'm sure you have with many members here. You were victimised by Bamber of that there is no doubt.

Well done you for having the courage to speak out!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:04:29 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

Do you mean Bambers supporters were running the campaign from their then place of work or have I misunderstood you?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:07:32 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9415.msg438483.html#msg438483

Here is Nigel's latest thread. Not sure how this or his 'countdown' thread shows Bamber is innocent. But everyone has their roles on the forum
 
Nugs blames Robert Boutflour & Mike has his theories. David is more of a Bamber defender. Foucusing on a guilter with his images, posters, 'gish gash' posts or former quotes, if anything which incriminates Bamber is posted.

Nigel's behaviour is criminal IMO Adam and I'm surprised he hasn't been reported to the police for his death threats towards Jeremy Bambers surviving victims.

Someone also needs to bring this fact to Jeremy Bamber, his prisoner governor as well as the Justice Secretary etc..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 02, 2018, 02:07:55 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

Daisy, I don't know why you ever got involved with Jeremy Bamber, I have never met him but I still know he is a monster and most certainly not to be trusted.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:11:47 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

We're the police involved Daisy?

If so the police have a duty to update MAPPA (and/or related systems) to ensure all those involved with the life sentence prisoner are aware.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 02, 2018, 02:13:22 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9415.msg438483.html#msg438483

Here is Nigel's latest thread. Not sure how this or his 'countdown' thread shows Bamber is innocent. But everyone has their roles on the forum
 
Nugs blames Robert Boutflour & Mike has his theories. David is more of a Bamber defender. Foucusing on a guilter with his images, posters, 'gish gash' posts or former quotes, if anything which incriminates Bamber is posted.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if one of them was called Brett.

As to Simon McKay, he quickly distanced himself from any association with Bamber as soon as his name started to appear across the www.  You might have noticed that any threads on here have been archived.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:18:19 PM
As to Simon McKay, he quickly distanced himself from any association with Bamber as soon as his name started to appear across the www. 

I know nothing about Simon McKay but am interested in what Bamber is alleged to have told Daisy. Did Simon McKay deny this?

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5307.msg188578#msg188578
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 02, 2018, 02:18:54 PM
David is lucky he is allowed to post his images, posters & 'gish gash' posts. Every other forum I have seen, it wouldn't be allowed.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:20:28 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

Were you given Simon McKays bank details Daisy or do you think Jeremy Bamber lied again?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:22:26 PM
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if one of them was called Brett.

Brett Collins? What makes you think that? Surely he distanced himself from Bamber over 3 decades ago and has kept away ever since?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 02, 2018, 02:27:30 PM
Brett Collins? What makes you think that? Surely he distanced himself from Bamber over 3 decades ago and has kept away ever since?

I doubt it very much.  I tracked him down a while back and his criminal exploits still follow him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:35:06 PM
I doubt it very much.  I tracked him down a while back and his criminal exploits still follow him.

Oh, are you referring to another Brett?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:36:46 PM
Jeremy Bambers supporters give the public a good understanding in relation to Bambers character http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1989.msg61889.html#msg61889
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:42:04 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

What attack Daisy?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:47:06 PM
In my view Bamber is extremely dangerous and an expert manipulator.  Surely it's time the authorities blocked all communications emanating from this murdering b........ thus ensuring that he doesn't rip off any other women.  I cannot see Bamber ever being released because of his activities.

This has been said for years http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.msg16264#msg16264



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 02:54:28 PM
Nigel's death threats cannot be erased. They were posted by Nigel and he continues today:

"Yes Lookout, but they (mugford, boutflour, eaton) will find this a flippin' problem...

Nigel resembles Kerry Daynes harasser/stalker in many ways IMO, though of course Nigel has made direct death threats on a public forum dedicated to claiming Jeremy Bamber is innocent.

Nigel also states:
"We have the makings of a 'Best of Jeremy Bamber 33 years' CD
I vote all proceeds should go towards MUGFORD'S, DAVID BOUTFLOUR's AND ANN EATON'S food parcels.
I have a kind heart.

Section 38 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/703534/review-of-the-law_policy-and-procedure-relating-to-parole-board-decisions.pdf
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 03:06:45 PM
David is lucky he is allowed to post his images, posters & 'gish gash' posts. Every other forum I have seen, it wouldn't be allowed.
This would have most certainly backfired on Bamber and there is no doubt it will have been recorded on his prison security file https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bamber-sends-supporter-7475685
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 03:13:53 PM
Nigel's death threats cannot be erased. They were posted by Nigel and he continues today:

"Yes Lookout, but they (mugford, boutflour, eaton) will find this a flippin' problem...

Nigel resembles Kerry Daynes harasser/stalker in many ways IMO, though of course Nigel has made direct death threats on a public forum dedicated to claiming Jeremy Bamber is innocent.

Nigel also states:
"We have the makings of a 'Best of Jeremy Bamber 33 years' CD
I vote all proceeds should go towards MUGFORD'S, DAVID BOUTFLOUR's AND ANN EATON'S food parcels.
I have a kind heart.

https://www.suzylamplugh.org/blog/guest-blog-kerry-daynes-my-stalking-experience

"Stranger-stalking is an ever-increasing problem, fuelled by social media and the access it gives to people that you would otherwise never meet in real life. The digital age provides stalkers with ever-new methods by which to intrude upon and intimidate someone. Police eventually seized my stalker’s computer - although strangely and frustratingly, they never even looked at it before giving it back to him. Despite his admitting that it holds extensive files relating to me.

As a mental health professional I’m acutely aware that this man needs help. You don’t decide to stalk a person you have seen on TV because you are in a healthy and fulfilled place in your own life. Clearly he struggles with his own mental distress and, like most stalkers is consumed with a sense of entitlement that is triggered when he feels rebuffed and/or wronged. Nearly seven years in, he continues to re-register his website domain names -  as recently as Christmas last year. And, as it turns out, he has also received a Harassment Warning in relation to his behaviour towards another woman. He needs psychological treatment - just not from me.

My stalker liked to invite me to ‘watch this space’, the unspecified promise of something unclear and yet entirely sinister.  Instead, I intend to fill this space, adding my voice to those campaigning for a more effective response to stalking. It is essential that police are trained to recognise the often insidious nature of this crime, consider the psychological damage it causes and place the onus squarely on perpetrators, not the victims, to change their behaviour. Stalkers need to be identified and treated with effective programmes in the way other dangerous people are. I know that progress is happening, but not consistently, or fast enough. 

Kerry Daynes is a Consultant Forensic Psychologist, Media Expert & Speaker
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 03:31:47 PM
Agreed Angelo222!

David Gauke is the person to complain to https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/transparency-of-the-parole-board-and-victim-support

Whilst Daisy wishes to remain annoynous, those opposed to Jeremy Bamber's attempts at being above the law, could include Daisy's posts regsrding Bamber to support their complaint.

UK prisons have a duty of care to the public and their duty is to ensure men like Jeremy Bamber do not pose a risk to the public. Risk factors do not just include risks to life and limb, there are the psychological risk factors also.

A judical review into Jeremy Bambers psychological risks to the public should be called for IMO.

He was after all branded by the trial Judge as being "evil beyond belief."

The problem of course is that many of Jeremy Bamber's victims (precious supporters) do not understand psychopathy and that these "evil" men can appear like you and I. Rather than recognise his psychopathy they excuse it, because of their lack of understanding into these dangerous and highly disordered individuals.

Actions of course speak louder than words.

I view Jeremy Bamber as a "pathological cult leader" type and imo should be reported to the authorities as such



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders

If you know of a cult leader who has many of these traits there is a high probability that they are hurting those around them emotionally, psychologically, physically, spiritually, or financially. And of course this does not take into account the hurt that their loved ones will also experience.

Here are the typical traits of the pathological cult leader (from Dangerous Personalities) you should watch for and which shout caution, get away, run, or avoid if possible:

He has a grandiose idea of who he is and what he can achieve.

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, or brilliance.

Demands blind unquestioned obedience.

Requires excessive admiration from followers and outsiders.

Has a sense of entitlement - expecting to be treated special at all times.

Is exploitative of others by asking for their money or that of relatives putting others at financial risk.

Is arrogant and haughty in his behavior or attitude.

Has an exaggerated sense of power (entitlement) that allows him to bend rules and break laws.

Takes sexual advantage of members of his sect or cult.

Sex is a requirement with adults and sub adults as part of a ritual or rite.

Is hypersensitive to how he is seen or perceived by others.

Publicly devalues others as being inferior, incapable, or not worthy.

Makes members confess their sins or faults publicly subjecting them to ridicule or humiliation while revealing exploitable weaknesses of the penitent.

Has ignored the needs of others, including: biological, physical, emotional, and financial needs.

Is frequently boashut upl of accomplishments.

Needs to be the center of attention and does things to distract others to insure that he or she is being noticed by arriving late, using exotic clothing, overdramatic speech, or by making theatrical entrances.

Has insisted in always having the best of anything (house, car, jewelry, clothes) even when others are relegated to lesser facilities, amenities, or clothing.

Doesn’t seem to listen well to needs of others, communication is usually one-way in the form of dictates.

Haughtiness, grandiosity, and the need to be controlling is part of his personality.

Behaves as though people are objects to be used, manipulated or exploited for personal gain.

When criticized he tends to lash out not just with anger but with rage.

Anyone who criticizes or questions him is called an “enemy.”

Refers to non-members or non-believers in him as “the enemy.”

Acts imperious at times, not wishing to know what others think or desire.

Believes himself to be omnipotent.

Has “magical” answers or solutions to problems.

Is superficially charming.

Habitually puts down others as inferior and only he is superior.

Has a certain coldness or aloofness about him that makes others worry about who this person really is and or whether they really know him.

Is deeply offended when there are perceived signs of boredom, being ignored or of being slighted.

Treats others with contempt and arrogance.

Is constantly assessing for those who are a threat or those who revere him.

The word “I” dominates his conversations. He is oblivious to how often he references himself.

Hates to be embarrassed or fail publicly - when he does he acts out with rage.

Doesn’t seem to feel guilty for anything he has done wrong nor does he apologize for his actions.

Believes he possesses the answers and solutions to world problems.

Believes himself to be a deity or a chosen representative of a deity.

Rigid, unbending, or insensitive describes how this person thinks.

Tries to control others in what they do, read, view, or think.

Has isolated members of his sect from contact with family or outside world.

Monitors and or restricts contact with family or outsiders.

Works the least but demands the most.

Has stated that he is “destined for greatness” or that he will be “martyred.”

Seems to be highly dependent of tribute and adoration and will often fish for compliments.

Uses enforcers or sycophants to insure compliance from members or believers.

Sees self as “unstoppable” perhaps has even said so.

Conceals background or family which would disclose how plain or ordinary he is.

Doesn’t think there is anything wrong with himself – in fact sees himself as perfection or “blessed.”

Has taken away the freedom to leave, to travel, to pursue life, and liberty of followers.

Has isolated the group physically (moved to a remote area) so as to not be observed.
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Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 03:39:18 PM
I view Jeremy Bamber as a "pathological cult leader" type and imo should be reported to the authorities as such



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders

If you know of a cult leader who has many of these traits there is a high probability that they are hurting those around them emotionally, psychologically, physically, spiritually, or financially. And of course this does not take into account the hurt that their loved ones will also experience.

Here are the typical traits of the pathological cult leader (from Dangerous Personalities) you should watch for and which shout caution, get away, run, or avoid if possible:

He has a grandiose idea of who he is and what he can achieve.

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, or brilliance.

Demands blind unquestioned obedience.

Requires excessive admiration from followers and outsiders.

Has a sense of entitlement - expecting to be treated special at all times.

Is exploitative of others by asking for their money or that of relatives putting others at financial risk.

Is arrogant and haughty in his behavior or attitude.

Has an exaggerated sense of power (entitlement) that allows him to bend rules and break laws.

Takes sexual advantage of members of his sect or cult.

Sex is a requirement with adults and sub adults as part of a ritual or rite.

Is hypersensitive to how he is seen or perceived by others.

Publicly devalues others as being inferior, incapable, or not worthy.

Makes members confess their sins or faults publicly subjecting them to ridicule or humiliation while revealing exploitable weaknesses of the penitent.

Has ignored the needs of others, including: biological, physical, emotional, and financial needs.

Is frequently boashut upl of accomplishments.

Needs to be the center of attention and does things to distract others to insure that he or she is being noticed by arriving late, using exotic clothing, overdramatic speech, or by making theatrical entrances.

Has insisted in always having the best of anything (house, car, jewelry, clothes) even when others are relegated to lesser facilities, amenities, or clothing.

Doesn’t seem to listen well to needs of others, communication is usually one-way in the form of dictates.

Haughtiness, grandiosity, and the need to be controlling is part of his personality.

Behaves as though people are objects to be used, manipulated or exploited for personal gain.

When criticized he tends to lash out not just with anger but with rage.

Anyone who criticizes or questions him is called an “enemy.”

Refers to non-members or non-believers in him as “the enemy.”

Acts imperious at times, not wishing to know what others think or desire.

Believes himself to be omnipotent.

Has “magical” answers or solutions to problems.

Is superficially charming.

Habitually puts down others as inferior and only he is superior.

Has a certain coldness or aloofness about him that makes others worry about who this person really is and or whether they really know him.

Is deeply offended when there are perceived signs of boredom, being ignored or of being slighted.

Treats others with contempt and arrogance.

Is constantly assessing for those who are a threat or those who revere him.

The word “I” dominates his conversations. He is oblivious to how often he references himself.

Hates to be embarrassed or fail publicly - when he does he acts out with rage.

Doesn’t seem to feel guilty for anything he has done wrong nor does he apologize for his actions.

Believes he possesses the answers and solutions to world problems.

Believes himself to be a deity or a chosen representative of a deity.

Rigid, unbending, or insensitive describes how this person thinks.

Tries to control others in what they do, read, view, or think.

Has isolated members of his sect from contact with family or outside world.

Monitors and or restricts contact with family or outsiders.

Works the least but demands the most.

Has stated that he is “destined for greatness” or that he will be “martyred.”

Seems to be highly dependent of tribute and adoration and will often fish for compliments.

Uses enforcers or sycophants to insure compliance from members or believers.

Sees self as “unstoppable” perhaps has even said so.

Conceals background or family which would disclose how plain or ordinary he is.

Doesn’t think there is anything wrong with himself – in fact sees himself as perfection or “blessed.”

Has taken away the freedom to leave, to travel, to pursue life, and liberty of followers.

Has isolated the group physically (moved to a remote area) so as to not be observed.
article continues after advertisement
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-30343/Were-living-fear-say-Bamber-relatives.html

We're living in fear, say Bamber relatives

The surviving family of multiple murderer Jeremy Bamber last night spoke of their fears for their safety if he wins his dramatic bid for freedom.
David Boutflour, 53, said he considered his jailed cousin a 'psychopath' who was a threat to the family. The legal profession had let them down, he added



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-30343/Were-living-fear-say-Bamber-relatives.html#ixzz5EMA4bloK
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 04:12:10 PM
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
·
1 May

JeremyBamber
Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children
https://mobile.twitter.com/FreeBamberNow


http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 05:01:58 PM
The Court and many of us have seen the intercepted letter Jeremy Bamber attempted to send Julie Mugford Adam. It's in the public domain, on the blue forum! I can't find the letter here?

None of us know how she actually felt at that time as she has yet to speak openly about it but that doesn't mean she won't!

Maggie is a moderator of the blue forum and as such is fully aware of the numerous threats made towards ALL the victims in this case and other cases I might add.

Does anyone have a copy of this letter and could they post it on up thanks  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 05:03:44 PM
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
·
1 May

JeremyBamber
Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children
https://mobile.twitter.com/FreeBamberNow


http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/

Trudi Benjamin and her team have well and truly over stepped the mark, once again  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 05:33:21 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

Daisy I'm sorry i keep bombarding you with numerous posts, I should probably ask the questions i have in the one post, as opposed to half a dozen. Hope I'm not putting you off from posting, as I've said before, I think you have much to offer the forum.

You've taught us all much about your experiences and I think your knowledge could be helpful to many people.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on May 02, 2018, 06:00:49 PM
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises.  The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time.  He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.

I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain.  The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

Do you mean the submissions that Simon put together and that NGB from the other forum was involved in, you tpyed them out?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 06:55:04 PM
Trudi Benjamin and her team have well and truly over stepped the mark, once again  *&^^&

Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0  - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M  *&^^&

Then this elsewhere:

"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money  separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2018, 07:25:05 PM
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0  - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M  *&^^&

Then this elsewhere:

"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money  separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am

 &%%6
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 07:32:29 PM
&%%6

I know right Caroline  *&^^&

Daisy was clearly ousted because she was uncovering the truth

It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!!  Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business.  I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2167.0.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2018, 07:35:05 PM
Does anyone have a copy of this letter and could they post it on up thanks  8((()*/

I might have a copy - I'll look.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 07:38:40 PM
I might have a copy - I'll look.

Thanks Caroline  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2018, 07:41:50 PM
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0  - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M  *&^^&

Then this elsewhere:

"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money  separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am

Leopards, it seems, don't change their spots.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2018, 08:07:26 PM
Thanks Caroline  8((()*/

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 08:07:47 PM
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0  - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M  *&^^&

Then this elsewhere:

"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money  separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am

Attention: Simon McKay esq., McKay Law
 
Re: Jeremy Bamber case
 
Dear Mr. McKay,
 
I was very idsappointed to learn you have recently made comments in the Canadian press regarding Julie Smerchanski nee Mugford in connection with the Jeremy Bamber case.
 
You seemed to assume that there would be an appeal court hearing at which you would want to call her to give evidence. You must have know these comments were premature even if you did expect the CCRC to refer Bamber's case to the Court of Appeak.
 
The following comments attributed to you I found most disturbing:
 
"We're fairly certain we can issue a subpoena upon her and that extradition treaties would force her to testify".
 
Besides assuming a court case that was never likely to happen, you directly imply Julie would have to be forced to attend requiring a subpoena and extradition. Julie voluntarily attended the last 2002 Bamber appeal and you have absolutely no right to imply that Julie would have to be forced to attend your hoped for appeal.
 
In my opinion your sole purpose for making these comments was to damage Julie's reputation in her home town and you should be thoroughly ashamed of your behaviour. I trust now you have failed miserably at the CCRC you will leave Julie alone.
 
How would you like it if for instance I contacted certain people about your personal history and let them know you are working pro bono for Jeremy Bamber when you have two current IVA's in your name. I am sure your creditors who agreed to the IVA's would wonder why you are working for a proven child killer for nothing when you should be trying to pay back your debts.
 
There might also be a lot of interest in the fact you didn't disclose your current insolvency agreements when trying to obtain funding in the USA for your failed get rich quick scheme. Just as there might be a lot of interest in the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority) judgement against you; mishandling of clients funds wasn't it?
 
I think you have been led by the nose to the Canadian press by one Miss Jackie Preece and I strongly advise you not to be associated with this woman in any way, shape or form. Miss Preece not only stalks anyone who dare suggest that her idol Bamber is guilty, she spends hours researching their children and using private Facebook photos of their family's to try and hurt her victims. She uses the private information gained and photos in her  nasty emails which she freely distributes.
 
She has also done the same with Anne Eaton and her daughter who was about 7 years old at the time of the murders. Miss Jackie Preece also researched the suicide death of the partner of a member of Bamber's Official Campaign Team and used this information on Twitter to again hurt her victim. I understand Bamber himself is aware of at least this last instance and is rightly furious with Miss Preece's behaviour.
 
If you doubt anything I have said please feel free to check with Neil who I understand worked closely with you on the resent failed CCRC submission. Neil knows chapter and verse about all Miss Preece's vile stalking activities.
 
I have no problem with you representing Bamber although I do question your motives. I do have a problem with your harassing of Julie for no other possible purpose than to cause her distress. That was way below the belt Mr. McKay!
 
I would suggest you have nothing more to do with Miss Preece and play by the rules of decency in future.
 
Yours truly,
 
 
Jennifer Terry
 
CC: 
Jeremy Bamber at Full Sutton Prison by mail
Mark Williams-Thomas by email http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 08:39:38 PM
Attention: Simon McKay esq., McKay Law
 
Re: Jeremy Bamber case
 
Dear Mr. McKay,
 
I was very idsappointed to learn you have recently made comments in the Canadian press regarding Julie Smerchanski nee Mugford in connection with the Jeremy Bamber case.
 
You seemed to assume that there would be an appeal court hearing at which you would want to call her to give evidence. You must have know these comments were premature even if you did expect the CCRC to refer Bamber's case to the Court of Appeak.
 
The following comments attributed to you I found most disturbing:
 
"We're fairly certain we can issue a subpoena upon her and that extradition treaties would force her to testify".
 
Besides assuming a court case that was never likely to happen, you directly imply Julie would have to be forced to attend requiring a subpoena and extradition. Julie voluntarily attended the last 2002 Bamber appeal and you have absolutely no right to imply that Julie would have to be forced to attend your hoped for appeal.
 
In my opinion your sole purpose for making these comments was to damage Julie's reputation in her home town and you should be thoroughly ashamed of your behaviour. I trust now you have failed miserably at the CCRC you will leave Julie alone.
 
How would you like it if for instance I contacted certain people about your personal history and let them know you are working pro bono for Jeremy Bamber when you have two current IVA's in your name. I am sure your creditors who agreed to the IVA's would wonder why you are working for a proven child killer for nothing when you should be trying to pay back your debts.
 
There might also be a lot of interest in the fact you didn't disclose your current insolvency agreements when trying to obtain funding in the USA for your failed get rich quick scheme. Just as there might be a lot of interest in the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority) judgement against you; mishandling of clients funds wasn't it?
 
I think you have been led by the nose to the Canadian press by one Miss Jackie Preece and I strongly advise you not to be associated with this woman in any way, shape or form. Miss Preece not only stalks anyone who dare suggest that her idol Bamber is guilty, she spends hours researching their children and using private Facebook photos of their family's to try and hurt her victims. She uses the private information gained and photos in her  nasty emails which she freely distributes.
 
She has also done the same with Anne Eaton and her daughter who was about 7 years old at the time of the murders. Miss Jackie Preece also researched the suicide death of the partner of a member of Bamber's Official Campaign Team and used this information on Twitter to again hurt her victim. I understand Bamber himself is aware of at least this last instance and is rightly furious with Miss Preece's behaviour.
 
If you doubt anything I have said please feel free to check with Neil who I understand worked closely with you on the resent failed CCRC submission. Neil knows chapter and verse about all Miss Preece's vile stalking activities.
 
I have no problem with you representing Bamber although I do question your motives. I do have a problem with your harassing of Julie for no other possible purpose than to cause her distress. That was way below the belt Mr. McKay!
 
I would suggest you have nothing more to do with Miss Preece and play by the rules of decency in future.
 
Yours truly,
 
 
Jennifer Terry
 
CC: 
Jeremy Bamber at Full Sutton Prison by mail
Mark Williams-Thomas by email http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0

I had no idea about any of this until Daisy posted about Simon McKay
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 08:49:18 PM


Thank you Caroline. So it seems Bamber wrote this to JM whilst on remand?

I need to re read it to pick out the salient points, however it's clear the whole thing is a manipulative tactic on his behalf.

He dumped her for someone else which is referred to as "discarding" then attempted to "idealise" Julie again.

All red flags and synonymous of psychopathic behaviour.

And of course Julie went to the police 4 days after Bamber was violent towards her. I note he fails to apologise for this in his letter nor does he apologise from going off with another women.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 08:59:02 PM


Bamber states in his letter to Julie (which thankfully she didn't receive)

"Maybe I am the only one who can understand your action as love & hate are rather closely related. No matter what I cannot find it in my heart to hate you. There are far too many fond memories of our time together.

Now who said that?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 09:20:32 PM
Trudi Benjamin and her team have well and truly over stepped the mark, once again  *&^^&

Most of Jeremy Bambers cult followers/supporters appear to have one thing in common - Smear Campaigns


"When healthy people feel upset about something, they may get angry. But toxic people don’t just get mad – they seethe – and wage a devious smear campaign.  One of the clearest indicators you’ve got a mentally unstable person on your hands is smear campaigning. Smear campaigners carefully and strategically use lies, exaggerations, suspicions and false accusations to try destroying your credibility. They hide behind a cloak of upstanding heroism and feigned innocence in an attempt to make as many people as possible think their efforts are based not on their vindictiveness, but on upstanding concern.
As a smeared person, what you are most likely “guilty” of is saying no to someone who is, in some way, failing to respect your boundaries, refusing to follow the same rules as everyone else, or someone who is spreading toxicity and manipulating. Someone entitled. Someone sneaky and vindictive. Someone who is hurting you or taking too much.
While standing up for yourself is the right thing to do, toxic people simply don’t believe you have any right to refuse their mistreatment, and they will set out to “punish” you for having any opinions that differ from theirs.
Virtually all smear campaigners can be counted on to have traits of “Cluster B” personality disorders. Narcissists and sociopaths are among the most virulent smear campaigners, and histrionic and borderline people may also opt to smear those who upset them. Not surprisingly, these four disorders are classified as the “dramatic and erratic” high-conflict personalities. https://www.facebook.com/notes/my-emotional-vampire/the-smear-campaign-view-it-as-a-badge-of-honor/327120180710384/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 09:29:38 PM
Bamber states in his letter to Julie (which thankfully she didn't receive)

"Maybe I am the only one who can understand your action as love & hate are rather closely related. No matter what I cannot find it in my heart to hate you. There are far too many fond memories of our time together.

Now who said that?

17th July 2012 Shaun Hall;
‘Hate’ is a strong word which is over used commonly, a little bit like the word ‘Love’ actually. I think ‘Hate’ should be left to describe something or someone that deeply and emotionally you dislike. I don’t expect you to see the difference though, it’s ok.”https://therealmrshspoofblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/27/the-burglary-omission-smear-campaign-hindsight/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2018, 09:57:24 PM
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0  - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M  *&^^&

Then this elsewhere:

"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money  separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am

To what tactics does Les Balkwell refer regarding what Simon McKay used in the Jeremy Bamber case?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 10:52:54 AM
To what tactics does Les Balkwell refer regarding what Simon McKay used in the Jeremy Bamber case?

Didn't Simon McKay represent Max Clifford?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 12:01:22 PM
Attention: Simon McKay esq., McKay Law
 
Re: Jeremy Bamber case
 
Dear Mr. McKay,
 
I was very idsappointed to learn you have recently made comments in the Canadian press regarding Julie Smerchanski nee Mugford in connection with the Jeremy Bamber case.
 
You seemed to assume that there would be an appeal court hearing at which you would want to call her to give evidence. You must have know these comments were premature even if you did expect the CCRC to refer Bamber's case to the Court of Appeak.
 
The following comments attributed to you I found most disturbing:
 
"We're fairly certain we can issue a subpoena upon her and that extradition treaties would force her to testify".
 
Besides assuming a court case that was never likely to happen, you directly imply Julie would have to be forced to attend requiring a subpoena and extradition. Julie voluntarily attended the last 2002 Bamber appeal and you have absolutely no right to imply that Julie would have to be forced to attend your hoped for appeal.
 
In my opinion your sole purpose for making these comments was to damage Julie's reputation in her home town and you should be thoroughly ashamed of your behaviour. I trust now you have failed miserably at the CCRC you will leave Julie alone.
 
How would you like it if for instance I contacted certain people about your personal history and let them know you are working pro bono for Jeremy Bamber when you have two current IVA's in your name. I am sure your creditors who agreed to the IVA's would wonder why you are working for a proven child killer for nothing when you should be trying to pay back your debts.
 
There might also be a lot of interest in the fact you didn't disclose your current insolvency agreements when trying to obtain funding in the USA for your failed get rich quick scheme. Just as there might be a lot of interest in the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority) judgement against you; mishandling of clients funds wasn't it?
 
I think you have been led by the nose to the Canadian press by one Miss Jackie Preece and I strongly advise you not to be associated with this woman in any way, shape or form. Miss Preece not only stalks anyone who dare suggest that her idol Bamber is guilty, she spends hours researching their children and using private Facebook photos of their family's to try and hurt her victims. She uses the private information gained and photos in her  nasty emails which she freely distributes.
 
She has also done the same with Anne Eaton and her daughter who was about 7 years old at the time of the murders. Miss Jackie Preece also researched the suicide death of the partner of a member of Bamber's Official Campaign Team and used this information on Twitter to again hurt her victim. I understand Bamber himself is aware of at least this last instance and is rightly furious with Miss Preece's behaviour.
 
If you doubt anything I have said please feel free to check with Neil who I understand worked closely with you on the resent failed CCRC submission. Neil knows chapter and verse about all Miss Preece's vile stalking activities.
 
I have no problem with you representing Bamber although I do question your motives. I do have a problem with your harassing of Julie for no other possible purpose than to cause her distress. That was way below the belt Mr. McKay!
 
I would suggest you have nothing more to do with Miss Preece and play by the rules of decency in future.
 
Yours truly,
 
 
Jennifer Terry
 
CC: 
Jeremy Bamber at Full Sutton Prison by mail
Mark Williams-Thomas by email http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0

It appears to me that things became sour between Simon McKay and Les Ballwell and I'm presuming the same applies with Jeremy Bamber? http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/exclusive-bamber-lawyer-to-take-on-balkwell-case-1-1445332

Why won't people like Simon McKay speak out, as Les Baulkwell did, and set the record straight instead of brushing things under the carpet and carrying on regardless in the hope the public won't notice these indiscretions?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1002.0

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=125.0

Post by: jackiepreece on November 16, 2011, 05:20:PM
"Just recently my relationship with Jeremy seems of great importance to a lot of people.  I have always said to Jeremy my interest in the case was purely because I believe this to be a huge miscarriage of justice.  I had read about the case and Jeremy Bamber and his bamberettes made it clear from the beginning that I was not looking for a boyfriend (incase you are reading this John Lamberton) and you will see from part of one of the letters Jeremy replied to he said he could see I was genuine and wasnt interested in women anymore (haha girlfriend of two years Daniele Hammond) why on earth would Jeremy mislead people like that.
I have enclosed two letters one where Jeremy is apologising to me for not trusting me to let me know about Simon McKay although I helped set the whole thing up. To say I was hurt is an understatement.
The next letter is completely different  to the letter (I have removed some parts of the middle of the letter as they are personal) before where he normally signs off lots of love its cheers mate love Jeremy and not a phone call since.
I am no longer any use at Bamber Towers and apparently Jeremy has been telling all his friends he no longer needs any contact with me and he has not had any contact with me for weeks.

All I can say is good luck, nice scam Jeremy and I hope this puts a stop to all the gossip and gives John Lamberton lots of stuff for his forum
P.S.
Just to top it off Bambertweets are cutting and pasting all my twitter contactsso they can have contact themselves.
It just goes to show they have moved on from photocopying and scanning

NGB replies:
"Jackie  - this really is very sad.  The only thought I have on it is whether you can be sure that Jeremy has decided to break contact with you.  With his new solicitor on board and a tight deadline I believe he must be spending all hours of the day working on the case.  He is I imagine using his available telephone time for discussing the final submissions to the CCRC.  I am not in any way trying to justify the way you have been treated but I do wonder how much of this has really come from Jeremy himself, rather than from some of those involved in his campaign team. Why not write to Jeremy explaining how you feel?  At least he would then hear it directly from you, rather than indirectly from someone else. 
I am really disappointed about the actions of some of those close to Jeremy.  His supporters should be working together, respecting and valuing the contributions of all of his supporters.  There is no justification for some of the unpleasant and hurtful behaviour that I have heard about over the past few days.  I really do not understand it.  I have a feeling that if Jeremy really had all the facts he would view some things in a different way

Grahame states:
"Even tw..s need justice Cliff even if they are dorks. I have felt like that several times. Just a note to those on the guilty page who say "we told you so". Surprise surprise. We knew already what he is like. But what they can't seem to grasp with their tiny minds is that we have no ulterior motive for defending Jeremy Bamber. We defend him because we believe he is innocent. Not because we think he's a nice man. Truth is he has done this to several people, just dumped them when they outlive their usefulness. Let this be a warning to everybody who consider themselves to be "personal friends" with him, be careful because I guarantee that you will get hurt.
So on the one hand I dislike him, but on the other hand I pity him and fight his corner. Because I think he is innocent. I don't expect to ever make his acquaintance and don't really desire to.
Jackie has no ulterior motive either. She is genuine in her nature and tells the truth and says what she thinks. She is a rare honest and caring person who accepts folks on face value. She has no other desires for Jeremy other than to see justice done. I am extremely angry with Jeremy to let such a rare honest person slip from his grasp. And the campaign organisers, poor souls do not realise what a powerful knowledgeable person they have cast aside. It was Jackie who got Simon McKay to take on Jeremy's case and Jeremy was informed by those running the campaign that it was they who engineered it all. They should be ashamed of themselves for misinforming Jeremy in that way.
I am thoroughly disgusted with them. That kind of dishonesty can lose support for Jeremy's case and I am sure it has already, the silly shallow souls. My advice to those who run the so called "official" campaign is to inform Jeremy of the truth, That their claim to have persuaded Simon McKay to take Jeremy's case was easy work for them but hard slog for Jackie. Tell the truth please you who run the campaign.

Jackie:
"Whatever I think about Jeremys behaviour I still believe he is innocent but he is surrounded by people who do not have his best interests at heart.
I have personally seen the work other people have done for Jeremy completely forgotten.
If people really cared what happens in the future and if they really do want Jeremys conviction overturned they will stop all the stupid games an arguments.
I have no idea why Jeremy has behaved the way he has but I think someone must have said something really nasty about me.
The worst thing was when I saw all my twitter accounts being copied.  The campaign team could have tried to get more followers themselves but to copy mine is very calculating.
Every single day I have people contact me through twitter wanting to help but I can't do anything anymore when my relationship with the campaign team no longer exists.
There was not one word from them about the appointment of Simon McKay.
I have never experienced this behaviour before so I have no idea how to deal with it. I want to keep posting on the forum but it's clear the campaign team don't really want me to.
I would like to make the point that when I was first in contact with Simon McKay I emailed the campaign office straight away with all his details (I have never done anything underhand I have always kept the campaign office informed of everything) within a week the campaign office emailed me to ask if I had done anything with the Simon Mackay contact making it very obvious they didn't intend to do anything with the contact. I then decided to take it further myself.
This situation is an example why Mike doesn't pass everything to the campaign centre.
I question anyone involved in the bad behaviour I have highlighted do they really care about Jeremy and want his conviction overturned.
Dale there was a previous situation that involved myself, Ngb and xxxx that I will not talk about on the open forum but to say I was upset by this person is an understatement.  xxxx has never been in contact with me since Jeremy put me on the phone list.
I didn't want to burn bridges but Jeremy clearly does not me involved anymore and he has told forum members that has been the situation for some time and you couldn't have bridges burnt anymore than someone trying to hijack all the twitter accounts I worked so hard to build up.
I cared about Jeremy a lot and continue to care about him and have fought so many battles defending him.
Why would anyone behave like this Dale if you know please tell me it would make me feel better

"Dale before you make comments you need to read posts going back the last week
I know when things changed with Jeremy and I noticed at the same time what was happening with twitter.  You obviously don't.
There has been another incident which a number of members know about which involves xxxx but I am not putting it on the forum
I don't believe the campaign centre are doing a good job for Jeremy they don't even use the expert legal advice that is available to them
When I first got Ngb involved a number of people didn't even want a qualified criminal barrister involved they tried to say Ngb probably wasn't genuine
You have it in black and White Jeremy didn't trust me
The more help I have got for Jeremy the more people distanced themselves from me
I have constantly had to listen to why do I come on this forum when they are all mad on here
I know for a fact the campaign could be run by quite a few members of this forum and be so much better
As for me being jealous you can think what you like but I think I made it very clear that when I started writing to Jeremy I was not going to be part of his fan club.
Hence the reply he wrote.
Dale I would be interested in what successes you have had campaigning for Jeremy as you sound as if you have some spare time.  Read up about twitter you might learn something and you might be able to help Jeremy
I am not stupid I know what is going on and don't try to make out that you and yours friends have Jeremys interests at heart because you clearly do not.
There is a lot of jealousy involved here but it's not coming from me
I will give you more detail tomorrow

"Grahame with respect I have been following exactly what has been going on with twitter.
You know how sharp I am and I know exactly what has been going on and so do they
Stupid, stupid, people
Read Mikes post you can see what they are up to there as well
No documents no forum
Jeremy is no more clued up than when he was arrested for the murders and was interviewed without a solicitor
He believes what his 'spies' decide they will tell him

I am bored with this now and I don't trust these people
They have won they can take all the glory I never wanted it anyway
It's a bloody good luck to Jeremy because he will need it

NGB:
Dale  -  I have been careful what I post on this thread because I do not want to do anything which might make matters worse.  I am not able to comment on Grahame's post about past conflict with you on facebook as I have no knowledge of that.  I have not become involved in facebook or twitter and from what I have heard I do not have any regrets about that.  I would not like to become drawn in to some of the nasty exchanges that appear to occur there.  Your posts here have been polite and respectful and you are welcome to continue posting here.  We need more contributions to the debate about the case.  Grahame has of course praised your contributions on this thread.
I am really saddened about the lack of trust and in some cases ill feeling that seems to exist between different groups of supporters of Jeremy.  I have tried very hard not to get drawn in to this, as I believe it has a corrosive effect on relations and is harmful to Jeremy's cause.  The "guilty" brigade are certainly splitting their sides with laughter at what they see posted here as they take delight in seeing Jeremy's supporters at each other's throats.
I would like to find a way to break down the barriers between the different groups of supporters.  I believe that Mike Tesko has a huge amount to offer to the campaign and Mike has indicated his willingness to help.  That offer should in my view be welcomed and accepted and I will do my best to encourage that.
Whist writing this post I have received a call from Jeremy.  He was very concerned about what had been reported to him about this thread.  He had been apparently been told that I had posted that I had fallen out with Jeremy.  As you all know I have not said anything like that, and I told Jeremy what has in fact been going on.  Jeremy knows that he has to be careful not to react to information passed to him without checking it himself.  He assured me that he has not cut off contact with Jackie.  He is very sorry that Jackie is upset.  He apologises for not calling and for delays in responding to letters but he is working flat out on the case and has to make speaking to his team a priority when he has access to the phone.  He says he will catch up with letters as soon as he can and will make calls when he can find time between his lengthy calls to his advisors.  I told Jeremy I would like to discuss the problems raised here with him further and he has agreed to call me again when he can give more time.
I really wish that the politics which surround us in relation to this case could be overcome.  I am going to do what I can to enable this to happen.  I am not going to attack any other supporter here and when I speak to Jeremy I am not going to try to turn him against anyone.  I will however give him my frank assessment of the situation and I will make suggestions for ways in which the problems might be overcome.
Jeremy did not have long to discuss the case and I will receive a fuller update soon.  However, excellent progress is being made on several fronts and although the work involved is intense Jeremy remains very optimistic
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1775.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 01:24:16 PM
It appears to me that things became sour between Simon McKay and Les Ballwell and I'm presuming the same applies with Jeremy Bamber? http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/exclusive-bamber-lawyer-to-take-on-balkwell-case-1-1445332

Why won't people like Simon McKay speak out, as Les Baulkwell did, and set the record straight instead of brushing things under the carpet and carrying on regardless in the hope the public won't notice these indiscretions?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1002.0

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=125.0

Post by: jackiepreece on November 16, 2011, 05:20:PM
"Just recently my relationship with Jeremy seems of great importance to a lot of people.  I have always said to Jeremy my interest in the case was purely because I believe this to be a huge miscarriage of justice.  I had read about the case and Jeremy Bamber and his bamberettes made it clear from the beginning that I was not looking for a boyfriend (incase you are reading this John Lamberton) and you will see from part of one of the letters Jeremy replied to he said he could see I was genuine and wasnt interested in women anymore (haha girlfriend of two years Daniele Hammond) why on earth would Jeremy mislead people like that.
I have enclosed two letters one where Jeremy is apologising to me for not trusting me to let me know about Simon McKay although I helped set the whole thing up. To say I was hurt is an understatement.
The next letter is completely different  to the letter (I have removed some parts of the middle of the letter as they are personal) before where he normally signs off lots of love its cheers mate love Jeremy and not a phone call since.
I am no longer any use at Bamber Towers and apparently Jeremy has been telling all his friends he no longer needs any contact with me and he has not had any contact with me for weeks.

All I can say is good luck, nice scam Jeremy and I hope this puts a stop to all the gossip and gives John Lamberton lots of stuff for his forum
P.S.
Just to top it off Bambertweets are cutting and pasting all my twitter contactsso they can have contact themselves.
It just goes to show they have moved on from photocopying and scanning

NGB replies:
"Jackie  - this really is very sad.  The only thought I have on it is whether you can be sure that Jeremy has decided to break contact with you.  With his new solicitor on board and a tight deadline I believe he must be spending all hours of the day working on the case.  He is I imagine using his available telephone time for discussing the final submissions to the CCRC.  I am not in any way trying to justify the way you have been treated but I do wonder how much of this has really come from Jeremy himself, rather than from some of those involved in his campaign team. Why not write to Jeremy explaining how you feel?  At least he would then hear it directly from you, rather than indirectly from someone else. 
I am really disappointed about the actions of some of those close to Jeremy.  His supporters should be working together, respecting and valuing the contributions of all of his supporters.  There is no justification for some of the unpleasant and hurtful behaviour that I have heard about over the past few days.  I really do not understand it.  I have a feeling that if Jeremy really had all the facts he would view some things in a different way

Grahame states:
"Even tw..s need justice Cliff even if they are dorks. I have felt like that several times. Just a note to those on the guilty page who say "we told you so". Surprise surprise. We knew already what he is like. But what they can't seem to grasp with their tiny minds is that we have no ulterior motive for defending Jeremy Bamber. We defend him because we believe he is innocent. Not because we think he's a nice man. Truth is he has done this to several people, just dumped them when they outlive their usefulness. Let this be a warning to everybody who consider themselves to be "personal friends" with him, be careful because I guarantee that you will get hurt.
So on the one hand I dislike him, but on the other hand I pity him and fight his corner. Because I think he is innocent. I don't expect to ever make his acquaintance and don't really desire to.
Jackie has no ulterior motive either. She is genuine in her nature and tells the truth and says what she thinks. She is a rare honest and caring person who accepts folks on face value. She has no other desires for Jeremy other than to see justice done. I am extremely angry with Jeremy to let such a rare honest person slip from his grasp. And the campaign organisers, poor souls do not realise what a powerful knowledgeable person they have cast aside. It was Jackie who got Simon McKay to take on Jeremy's case and Jeremy was informed by those running the campaign that it was they who engineered it all. They should be ashamed of themselves for misinforming Jeremy in that way.
I am thoroughly disgusted with them. That kind of dishonesty can lose support for Jeremy's case and I am sure it has already, the silly shallow souls. My advice to those who run the so called "official" campaign is to inform Jeremy of the truth, That their claim to have persuaded Simon McKay to take Jeremy's case was easy work for them but hard slog for Jackie. Tell the truth please you who run the campaign.

Jackie:
"Whatever I think about Jeremys behaviour I still believe he is innocent but he is surrounded by people who do not have his best interests at heart.
I have personally seen the work other people have done for Jeremy completely forgotten.
If people really cared what happens in the future and if they really do want Jeremys conviction overturned they will stop all the stupid games an arguments.
I have no idea why Jeremy has behaved the way he has but I think someone must have said something really nasty about me.
The worst thing was when I saw all my twitter accounts being copied.  The campaign team could have tried to get more followers themselves but to copy mine is very calculating.
Every single day I have people contact me through twitter wanting to help but I can't do anything anymore when my relationship with the campaign team no longer exists.
There was not one word from them about the appointment of Simon McKay.
I have never experienced this behaviour before so I have no idea how to deal with it. I want to keep posting on the forum but it's clear the campaign team don't really want me to.
I would like to make the point that when I was first in contact with Simon McKay I emailed the campaign office straight away with all his details (I have never done anything underhand I have always kept the campaign office informed of everything) within a week the campaign office emailed me to ask if I had done anything with the Simon Mackay contact making it very obvious they didn't intend to do anything with the contact. I then decided to take it further myself.
This situation is an example why Mike doesn't pass everything to the campaign centre.
I question anyone involved in the bad behaviour I have highlighted do they really care about Jeremy and want his conviction overturned.
Dale there was a previous situation that involved myself, Ngb and xxxx that I will not talk about on the open forum but to say I was upset by this person is an understatement.  xxxx has never been in contact with me since Jeremy put me on the phone list.
I didn't want to burn bridges but Jeremy clearly does not me involved anymore and he has told forum members that has been the situation for some time and you couldn't have bridges burnt anymore than someone trying to hijack all the twitter accounts I worked so hard to build up.
I cared about Jeremy a lot and continue to care about him and have fought so many battles defending him.
Why would anyone behave like this Dale if you know please tell me it would make me feel better

"Dale before you make comments you need to read posts going back the last week
I know when things changed with Jeremy and I noticed at the same time what was happening with twitter.  You obviously don't.
There has been another incident which a number of members know about which involves xxxx but I am not putting it on the forum
I don't believe the campaign centre are doing a good job for Jeremy they don't even use the expert legal advice that is available to them
When I first got Ngb involved a number of people didn't even want a qualified criminal barrister involved they tried to say Ngb probably wasn't genuine
You have it in black and White Jeremy didn't trust me
The more help I have got for Jeremy the more people distanced themselves from me
I have constantly had to listen to why do I come on this forum when they are all mad on here
I know for a fact the campaign could be run by quite a few members of this forum and be so much better
As for me being jealous you can think what you like but I think I made it very clear that when I started writing to Jeremy I was not going to be part of his fan club.
Hence the reply he wrote.
Dale I would be interested in what successes you have had campaigning for Jeremy as you sound as if you have some spare time.  Read up about twitter you might learn something and you might be able to help Jeremy
I am not stupid I know what is going on and don't try to make out that you and yours friends have Jeremys interests at heart because you clearly do not.
There is a lot of jealousy involved here but it's not coming from me
I will give you more detail tomorrow

"Grahame with respect I have been following exactly what has been going on with twitter.
You know how sharp I am and I know exactly what has been going on and so do they
Stupid, stupid, people
Read Mikes post you can see what they are up to there as well
No documents no forum
Jeremy is no more clued up than when he was arrested for the murders and was interviewed without a solicitor
He believes what his 'spies' decide they will tell him

I am bored with this now and I don't trust these people
They have won they can take all the glory I never wanted it anyway
It's a bloody good luck to Jeremy because he will need it

NGB:
Dale  -  I have been careful what I post on this thread because I do not want to do anything which might make matters worse.  I am not able to comment on Grahame's post about past conflict with you on facebook as I have no knowledge of that.  I have not become involved in facebook or twitter and from what I have heard I do not have any regrets about that.  I would not like to become drawn in to some of the nasty exchanges that appear to occur there.  Your posts here have been polite and respectful and you are welcome to continue posting here.  We need more contributions to the debate about the case.  Grahame has of course praised your contributions on this thread.
I am really saddened about the lack of trust and in some cases ill feeling that seems to exist between different groups of supporters of Jeremy.  I have tried very hard not to get drawn in to this, as I believe it has a corrosive effect on relations and is harmful to Jeremy's cause.  The "guilty" brigade are certainly splitting their sides with laughter at what they see posted here as they take delight in seeing Jeremy's supporters at each other's throats.
I would like to find a way to break down the barriers between the different groups of supporters.  I believe that Mike Tesko has a huge amount to offer to the campaign and Mike has indicated his willingness to help.  That offer should in my view be welcomed and accepted and I will do my best to encourage that.
Whist writing this post I have received a call from Jeremy.  He was very concerned about what had been reported to him about this thread.  He had been apparently been told that I had posted that I had fallen out with Jeremy.  As you all know I have not said anything like that, and I told Jeremy what has in fact been going on.  Jeremy knows that he has to be careful not to react to information passed to him without checking it himself.  He assured me that he has not cut off contact with Jackie.  He is very sorry that Jackie is upset.  He apologises for not calling and for delays in responding to letters but he is working flat out on the case and has to make speaking to his team a priority when he has access to the phone.  He says he will catch up with letters as soon as he can and will make calls when he can find time between his lengthy calls to his advisors.  I told Jeremy I would like to discuss the problems raised here with him further and he has agreed to call me again when he can give more time.
I really wish that the politics which surround us in relation to this case could be overcome.  I am going to do what I can to enable this to happen.  I am not going to attack any other supporter here and when I speak to Jeremy I am not going to try to turn him against anyone.  I will however give him my frank assessment of the situation and I will make suggestions for ways in which the problems might be overcome.
Jeremy did not have long to discuss the case and I will receive a fuller update soon.  However, excellent progress is being made on several fronts and although the work involved is intense Jeremy remains very optimistic
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1775.0

Jeremy Bambers psychopathic idealise, devalue, discard cycle has been going on since day dot.

His cult followers/supporters recognise it, some even going as far as to warn others Bamber will hurt them  *&^^&

Psychopaths will stop at nothing in order to win. Thankfully Jeremy Bambers arsenal of pathological manipulation tactics and his exploitive behaviour has been exposed!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 03, 2018, 01:26:10 PM
The Blue forum is for posters who are not in contact with Bamber or the CT.

Mike & JackieD were rejected by Bamber. David's contact attempt was rejected at first base. 

Roch, Lookout & Nugs will never leave the safety of the Blue forum.

Trudie left the Blue forum in 2012 & is a high profile activist. Doubtful Bamber will discard her as she could cause high profile damage in the media.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 01:38:53 PM
The Blue forum is for posters who are not in contact with Bamber or the CT.

Mike & JackieD were rejected by Bamber. David's contact attempt was rejected at first base. 

Roch, Lookout & Nugs will never leave the safety of the Blue forum.

Trudie left the Blue forum in 2012 & is a high profile activist. Doubtful Bamber will discard her as she could cause high profile damage in the media.

Doesn't Lookout write to Jeremy Bamber? I'm sure she stated on blue that she did.

Trudi Benjamin will come to learn in time she too has been used.

Must say I am appalled at the Campaign teams recent malicious, unfounded smear campaign aimed at Julie Mugford

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459501#msg459501

On 1st May 2018 The J B Campaign Lts tweeted: "Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Doesn't Lookout write to Jeremy Bamber? I'm sure she stated on blue that she did.

Trudi Benjamin will come to learn in time she too has been used.

Must say I am appalled at the Campaign teams recent malicious, unfounded smear campaign aimed at Julie Mugford

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459501#msg459501

On 1st May 2018 The J B Campaign Lts tweeted: "Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children.

Formal complaints re the J B Campaign Ltd company can be made here: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

"Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:

causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.

How to complain
You can either:

complain to the Insolvency Service online
call or write to the Insolvency Service
Insolvency Service
Telephone: 0300 678 0017
24-hour answerphone
Find out about call charges

Intelligence Hub
Investigations and Enforcement Services
Insolvency Service
3rd Floor Cannon House
18 Priory Queensway
Birmingham
B4 6FD



Complaints about a limited company
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

What happens next
If the Insolvency Service decides that your complaint is serious enough, they will either:

carry out a confidential investigation
pass your complaint on to another public body
If they find anything wrong and have enough evidence, they might ask a court to:

close the company down
disqualify the company’s directors
They may also carry out a criminal investigation if they find the company has committed an offence.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2018, 01:55:04 PM
Doesn't Lookout write to Jeremy Bamber? I'm sure she stated on blue that she did.

Trudi Benjamin will come to learn in time she too has been used.

Must say I am appalled at the Campaign teams recent malicious, unfounded smear campaign aimed at Julie Mugford

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459501#msg459501

On 1st May 2018 The J B Campaign Lts tweeted: "Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children.

Yep, just more of the same really. Thing is, they are making themselves sound like obsessives. It's not a clean campaign. All the stuff about Julie Mugford, the family and the liars lobby - it just sounds spiteful. he bake-off and the graveside vigil are ill thought and they seem to work on the premis that any publicity is good publicity - not in this instance! Mud slinging isn't an intelligent way to run a campaign of this nature!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 02:02:50 PM
Yep, just more of the same really. Thing is, they are making themselves sound like obsessives. It's not a clean campaign. All the stuff about Julie Mugford, the family and the liars lobby - it just sounds spiteful. he bake-off and the graveside vigil are ill thought and they seem to work on the premis that any publicity is good publicity - not in this instance! Mud slinging isn't an intelligent way to run a campaign of this nature!

Convicted prisoners are not allowed to benefit financially from their crimes!

I suspect Trudi Benjamin and co think they have found a way round this?

I agree with your post btw. The campaign team appear to have a habit of taking things too far; bordering on the criminal..I suspect because they've got away with it up until now, they think they can continue in the same vein regardless of the consequences to the victims  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 02:08:07 PM
Formal complaints re the J B Campaign Ltd company can be made here: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

"Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:

causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.

How to complain
You can either:

complain to the Insolvency Service online
call or write to the Insolvency Service
Insolvency Service
Telephone: 0300 678 0017
24-hour answerphone
Find out about call charges

Intelligence Hub
Investigations and Enforcement Services
Insolvency Service
3rd Floor Cannon House
18 Priory Queensway
Birmingham
B4 6FD



Complaints about a limited company
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

What happens next
If the Insolvency Service decides that your complaint is serious enough, they will either:

carry out a confidential investigation
pass your complaint on to another public body
If they find anything wrong and have enough evidence, they might ask a court to:

close the company down
disqualify the company’s directors
They may also carry out a criminal investigation if they find the company has committed an offence.

For anyone who may be interested there's an online complaint form here

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx

Company details can be found here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 02:10:42 PM
Yep, just more of the same really. Thing is, they are making themselves sound like obsessives. It's not a clean campaign. All the stuff about Julie Mugford, the family and the liars lobby - it just sounds spiteful. he bake-off and the graveside vigil are ill thought and they seem to work on the premis that any publicity is good publicity - not in this instance! Mud slinging isn't an intelligent way to run a campaign of this nature!

Much of what the CT claims under their limited company is misleading, false and unfounded and cannot be backed up by evidence, more importantly it is harmful to the surviving relatives and victims and people like Kerry Daynes etc
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 02:42:11 PM
Much of what the CT claims under their limited company is misleading, false and unfounded and cannot be backed up by evidence, more importantly it is harmful to the surviving relatives and victims and people like Kerry Daynes etc

More irony https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/oct/10/hatespeechvfreespeech

IMO anything linked to Jeremy Bamber's false claims of innocence have the potential to incite hated, as many of us have witnessed

Jeremy Bamber doesn't have a campaign per se, it's a cult

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2018, 04:56:40 PM
Honestly!  8()(((@#

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 03, 2018, 05:40:53 PM
Doesn't Lookout write to Jeremy Bamber? I'm sure she stated on blue that she did.

Trudi Benjamin will come to learn in time she too has been used.

Must say I am appalled at the Campaign teams recent malicious, unfounded smear campaign aimed at Julie Mugford

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459501#msg459501

On 1st May 2018 The J B Campaign Lts tweeted: "Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children.

Lookout said Bamber sent her a Christmas card. She once disputed a piece of evidence saying Bamber sent her a letter regarding this. This letter was never posted on the forum.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 03, 2018, 06:27:26 PM
Honestly!  8()(((@#

David runs with the CT on this and of course it fits with his theories that SC died significantly later. 

Seriously guys if you want to assist JB you need to up your game, know your stuff, check your facts.  As it stands you make JB look very guilty!  If I had my way the lot of you would be gone in a flash.  Why don't you venture onto the forums to discuss the case?  Maybe because you know SFA and have enough sense to know you would get severely drubbed.  Why do you know SFA?  Coz you is fick and lazy!  And you all huddle round in a family slipper agreeing with each other.  That's why.   

And in addition to what Caroline has posted any sound may have come from Crispy scampering around. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on May 03, 2018, 06:52:50 PM
Honestly!  8()(((@#

Wow they are disgusting misleading pieces of trash.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 03, 2018, 06:58:50 PM
Lookout said Bamber sent her a Christmas card. She once disputed a piece of evidence saying Bamber sent her a letter regarding this. This letter was never posted on the forum.

Lookout writes regularly to Bamber, giving him all her news and updating him on the case.


I would imagine that he looks forwards to those letters immensely.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 07:08:16 PM
Honestly!  8()(((@#

The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 07:11:39 PM


According to Bambers letter to Julie he says not a day passes that he doesn't think of her

Hardly supportive of his claims Julie was a scorned women.

Why would she be scorned if it was clear he was still chasing after her?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2018, 07:13:19 PM
According to Bambers letter to Julie he says not a day passes that he doesn't think of her

Hardly supportive of his claims Julie was a scorned women.

Why would she be scorned if it was clear he was still chasing after her?



I bet that's true!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 07:14:54 PM
Lookout writes regularly to Bamber, giving him all her news and updating him on the case.


I would imagine that he looks forwards to those letters immensely.

I wonder if she's also on his rotating phone list?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
I bet that's true!  @)(++(*

Didn't Bamber send Julie another letter where he attempts to butter her up with smoochy words, or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 03, 2018, 07:21:35 PM
Didn't Bamber send Julie another letter where he attempts to butter her up with smoochy words, or am I mistaken?

I think that was to Lookout.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 07:31:48 PM
I think that was to Lookout.

Lookout claims today:

"Poor poor Jeremy has repeatedly been saying what his father used to say------" it'll all come out in the wash ". By the time this case is over it'll resemble a Chinese laundry. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9010.msg438571.html#msg438571
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 07:37:04 PM
 @)(++(*

The campaign team have retweeted Mike O'Brien today

Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
Michael O'Brien
@mobrien1967
·
1h
Its better to fight with truth and honesty than with lies and deceit.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9166.msg447213#msg447213
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 03, 2018, 07:41:44 PM
Lookout writes regularly to Bamber, giving him all her news and updating him on the case.


I would imagine that he looks forwards to those letters immensely.

It is surprising that she has only used a Bamber letter once when giving an apparent source. The apparent letter then not being posted.

Usually Lookout says 'find it yourself', 'use you're eyes' or 'it's on the forum somewhere', when responding to a source request.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2018, 07:48:37 PM
Didn't Bamber send Julie another letter where he attempts to butter her up with smoochy words, or am I mistaken?

Is that the one in which he calls her "Stinker"?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 07:50:45 PM
Is that the one in which he calls her "Stinker"?

That's the one April. Any ideas where I might find it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2018, 07:56:35 PM
The Sheila Alive rubbish also dredges up the old myth that police were in conversation with someone inside the farm. This means Sheila while Jeremy was sitting in a police car in Pages Lane! Billhooks!

The log states that at 05:25 "Firearms team are in conversation with a person from inside the farm". The extract from Collin's WS shows that JUST PRIOR to making the loud hailer challenge to the house, he was in conversation with Jeremy - Jeremy was the person mentioned in the log and quite clearly, at this point, he was NOT in a car in Pages Lane, in fact after his conversation with Collin's he went to phone Julie.

They then make a challenge to 'persons inside the farmhouse' and this was met with no response. It's clear when you read everything in context what happened. They spoke to Bamber (the person from inside the farm). But later challenges to persons the house - were met with no response.

The CT keep flogging this dead horse and it just makes them sound as if they haven't even grasped the basics!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 08:16:47 PM
The Sheila Alive rubbish also dredges up the old myth that police were in conversation with someone inside the farm. This means Sheila while Jeremy was sitting in a police car in Pages Lane! Billhooks!

The log states that at 05:25 "Firearms team are in conversation with a person from inside the farm". The extract from Collin's WS shows that JUST PRIOR to making the loud hailer challenge to the house, he was in conversation with Jeremy - Jeremy was the person mentioned in the log and quite clearly, at this point, he was NOT in a car in Pages Lane, in fact after his conversation with Collin's he went to phone Julie.

They then make a challenge to 'persons inside the farmhouse' and this was met with no response. It's clear when you read everything in context what happened. They spoke to Bamber (the person from inside the farm). But later challenges to persons the house - were met with no response.

The CT keep flogging this dead horse and it just makes them sound as if they haven't even grasped the basics!

Great post Caroline!

"And she does like to be told she's pretty and she likes to make herself up"  What a f....ing mass murdering tosser he was and is!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 03, 2018, 08:24:19 PM
Thank you for clarifying this Daisy! It's good to see you posting again!

Did he give you Simon McKays bank details? I know nothing about Simon McKay but I do know not all solicitors are what they say they are.

This is interesting Daisy.

You have my full support exposing the truth regarding Bamber, as I'm sure you have with many members here. You were victimised by Bamber of that there is no doubt.

Well done you for having the courage to speak out!

No he didn’t get as far as giving me Simon McKays bank details as I said no to providing the money. It is interesting that none of these so called forensic tests have ever been revealed. I don’t think they ever existed.

I believe Simon McKay is a Barrister now.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 08:29:23 PM
No he didn’t get as far as giving me Simon McKays bank details as I said no to providing the money. It is interesting that none of these so called forensic tests have ever been revealed. I don’t think they ever existed.

I believe Simon McKay is a Barrister now.

Hi Daisy, thanks for replying. I must apologise again if you feel I'm bombarding you with 101 questions.

"It is interesting that none of these so called forensic tests have ever been revealed. I don’t think they ever existed."

Now that's interesting.

I've read up on Simon Mckay and IMO he seems dodgy? I didn't like the way he appeared to attempt to smear Julie's name over in Canada and his apparant attempts at harassing her; extremely unprofessionally and unethical imho. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459536#msg459536

Nor did I like the way he treated Les Baulkwell.

Self employed barrister, Simon Arthur Samual McKay https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk/regulatory-requirements/the-barristers'-register/?ProfileID=131767
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2018, 08:50:40 PM
No he didn’t get as far as giving me Simon McKays bank details as I said no to providing the money. It is interesting that none of these so called forensic tests have ever been revealed. I don’t think they ever existed.

I believe Simon McKay is a Barrister now.

The were revealed Daisy. They were the tests carried out in the US. They are detailed in the following documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 09:38:32 PM
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616

Worth a read before making a formal complaint it's only 5 pages long https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/540099/company-investigations-what-we-do-jul16.pdf

And it's confidential  8((()*/

"if the conduct of the directors who run the company is questionable enough, we can instigate proceedings to disqualify them from managing a limited company for a period up to 15 years. This will make it an offence for them to take part in managing a company. They will still be able to conduct a business but without limited liability;
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2018, 09:52:21 PM
And another gem! The was no difference in tone if a caller rang a phone that was engaged in a call or the phone was off the hook!

It sounded like this!
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/sounds/engaged.wav
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2018, 10:18:26 PM
And another gem! The was no difference in tone if a caller rang a phone that was engaged in a call or the phone was off the hook!

It sounded like this!
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/sounds/engaged.wav

  8((()*/

And still they contimue to promote these blatent lies  %56&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on May 03, 2018, 10:21:27 PM
And another gem! The was no difference in tone if a caller rang a phone that was engaged in a call or the phone was off the hook!

It sounded like this!
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/sounds/engaged.wav

Makes you wonder. Are they THICK or just pure LIARS? Or a mixture of both.

Did anyone see the cartoon Mike posted - the spelling of EATEN?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2018, 10:46:28 PM
Makes you wonder. Are they THICK or just pure LIARS? Or a mixture of both.

Did anyone see the cartoon Mike posted - the spelling of EATEN?

Yes, I could hardly start laughing.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2018, 12:19:26 PM
I don't actually think you see KD as irrelevant but I think I understand why you chose to post what you have.

I'm not your enemy Holly, though I appreciate you may see me as such at times.

I wasn't joking btw about my email to Michael Spurr.

Michael Spurr it would appear is hanging on to his job by a thread. So instead I've contacted David Gouke  8((()*/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prison-service-boss-michael-spurr-faces-axe-over-safety-crisis-78ft7k8zl

I changed my mind and also email Michael Spurr.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2018, 07:30:44 PM
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616

The J B Campaign Ltd are re victimising Jeremy Bambers surviving victims. All of the material on the website is false, inaccurate and extremely misleading.

The website is also IMO attempting to incite hate http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/44/section/146 section 4

And there are numerous examples over the years where it is evidenced a Jeremy Bamber supporter has over stepped the mark.

"If you are a victim of crime, or the relative of a victim, and you’ve had unwanted contact from a prisoner, for example by letter, text or through social media sites such as Facebook, or if you’re worried about their release from prison, contact the National Offender Management Service (NOMS) Victim Helpline on 0845 7585 112, or email victim.helpline@noms.gsi.gov.uk. https://www.victimsupport.org.uk/going-court/after-trial

NOMS is now called Her Majesty’s Prison & Probation Service and headed up by David Gauke.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/transparency-of-the-parole-board-and-victim-support
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
Formal complaints re the J B Campaign Ltd company can be made here: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

"Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:

causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.

How to complain
You can either:

complain to the Insolvency Service online
call or write to the Insolvency Service
Insolvency Service
Telephone: 0300 678 0017
24-hour answerphone
Find out about call charges

Intelligence Hub
Investigations and Enforcement Services
Insolvency Service
3rd Floor Cannon House
18 Priory Queensway
Birmingham
B4 6FD



Complaints about a limited company
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

What happens next
If the Insolvency Service decides that your complaint is serious enough, they will either:

carry out a confidential investigation
pass your complaint on to another public body
If they find anything wrong and have enough evidence, they might ask a court to:

close the company down
disqualify the company’s directors
They may also carry out a criminal investigation if they find the company has committed an offence.

IMO the J B Campaign Ltd are in breach of the following;

of causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way

I cannot comment on their financial affairs until such time as they submit their accounts with I believe are due in the next couple of months?

The insolvency service will in no doubt take a dim view of company director Trudi Benjamin's "graveside rant"


"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave.
Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice.
He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html


The same Trudi Benjamin who's "forum crush" is Jackiepreece and who's "hero" is Muggy Mike Tesco and who refers to Julie Mugford as "fugly Muggly"  *&^^&

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456652#msg456652

The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616

The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2018, 10:31:53 PM
IMO the J B Campaign Ltd are in breach of the following;

of causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way

I cannot comment on their financial affairs until such time as they submit their accounts with I believe are due in the next couple of months?

The insolvency service will in no doubt take a dim view of company director Trudi Benjamin's "graveside rant"


"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave.
Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice.
He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html


The same Trudi Benjamin who's "forum crush" is Jackiepreece and who's "hero" is Muggy Mike Tesco and who refers to Julie Mugford as "fugly Muggly"  *&^^&

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456652#msg456652

The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544

So who is responsible for Jeremy Bambers behaviour over the Internet or is it a joint enterprise?
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8266648.Killer_Jeremy_Bamber_allowed_to_use_Facebook/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 10:30:33 AM
IMO the J B Campaign Ltd are in breach of the following;

of causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way

I cannot comment on their financial affairs until such time as they submit their accounts with I believe are due in the next couple of months?

The insolvency service will in no doubt take a dim view of company director Trudi Benjamin's "graveside rant"


"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave.
Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice.
He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html


The same Trudi Benjamin who's "forum crush" is Jackiepreece and who's "hero" is Muggy Mike Tesco and who refers to Julie Mugford as "fugly Muggly"  *&^^&

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456652#msg456652

The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544

https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 10:41:46 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en


I wonder whose sick idea that was? Are they now going to announce that someone has been performing this task on Jeremy's behalf, every week since Nevill and June were buried, or is it, perchance, a publicity stunt, designed to try make him look good leading up to what they hope will be his potential release?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 05, 2018, 11:09:10 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en

Ghouls!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2018, 11:14:06 AM
Ghouls!

Thank you for bringing this to our attention girls, I can see this backfiring on them very soon.  I can just see the headlines "Bamber ghouls interfere with grave of murdered parents".
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 11:19:44 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUw-IoZgyh9/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIzbmTRg1bJ/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCVi9U3J7rz/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 11:28:03 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 05, 2018, 11:28:29 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUw-IoZgyh9/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIzbmTRg1bJ/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCVi9U3J7rz/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

    "jeremybamberNOT TO BE MISSED BRAND NEW TOMORROW.

    A deeply moving, heart wrenching Vlog from campaigner Trudi's recent trip to Essex.
    www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk"


Gut wrenching more like!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 05, 2018, 11:31:35 AM
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook

Just goes to prove that supporters really do live in a DREAM WORLD!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 11:36:08 AM
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook


Oooh! Jeremy has a new and adoring neophyte.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 11:38:32 AM
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616

Isn't the J B Campaign Ltd committing fraud?

"wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 11:46:13 AM
Just goes to prove that supporters really do live in a DREAM WORLD!

 8((()*/

Shelley says: "I might add some people are only to quick to believe the negative rather than the positive about Jeremy, many of them hide behind a veil of deceit like the pop up on your computer that says [hide me

 ()678% Shelly if you are nebbing in (can i use nebbing Caroline? Lol)

No deceit here

Simon Hall and Jeremy Bamber could have been cut from the same cloth.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 05, 2018, 11:50:22 AM
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook

I cannot decide between besotted or obsessed?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
I cannot decide between besotted or obsessed?

Groomed? Conned? Duped?

http://psychopathsandlove.com/red-flags-of-a-psychopath/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 05, 2018, 11:56:52 AM
8((()*/

Shelley says: "I might add some people are only to quick to believe the negative rather than the positive about Jeremy, many of them hide behind a veil of deceit like the pop up on your computer that says [hide me

 ()678% Shelly if you are nebbing in

No deceit here

Simon Hall and Jeremy Bamber could have been cut from the same cloth.

Funny that people should concentrate on the five murders he committed and just ignore his sunny deposition!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 11:57:19 AM
8((()*/

Shelley says: "I might add some people are only to quick to believe the negative rather than the positive about Jeremy, many of them hide behind a veil of deceit like the pop up on your computer that says [hide me

 ()678% Shelly if you are nebbing in

No deceit here

Simon Hall and Jeremy Bamber could have been cut from the same cloth.

Has this woman been hypnotized? "He is gracious............"!!!! "..............has enough faith to ALLOW me..........." This one seems to have got it worse than one or two others who salivate over him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:00:01 PM
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616

If you have been conned by the J B Campaign Ltd company and its associated agents; that includes Jeremy Bamber, then it's worth reporting.

More importantly it's completely annoynous  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 05, 2018, 12:01:30 PM
The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544

The Scottish Charity Regulator is currently investigating the Wrongly Accused Person Organisation charity.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:02:28 PM
Has this woman been hypnotized? "He is gracious............"!!!! "..............has enough faith to ALLOW me..........." This one seems to have got it worse than one or two others who salivate over him.

The spell of the psychopath April https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pathological-relationships/201209/am-i-under-his-spell
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 12:03:05 PM
Funny that people should concentrate on the five murders he committed and just ignore his sunny deposition!


AND his regal graciousness. His secret origins emerging, perhaps?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 05, 2018, 12:03:46 PM
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook

This was written before I know Jeremy so pre 2011. Many of those who wrote testimonies are no longer in contact with Jeremy eg Tom Sturgeon and Maria Perez.  It would be interesting to know what they think of him now. Come on Steph I am sure you could track them down and find out.

None of the testimonies are recent although the CT would want you to believe they are.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:04:18 PM
The Scottish Charity Regulator is currently investigating the Wrongly Accused Person Organisation charity.

That's good to hear John! I hope they make their findings public!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
This was written before I know Jeremy so pre 2011. Many of those who wrote testimonies are no longer in contact with Jeremy eg Tom Sturgeon and Maria Perez.  It would be interesting to know what they think of him now. Come on Steph I am sure you could track them down and find out.

None of the testimonies are recent although the CT would want you to believe they are.


Daisy, that may tell a different story. If the CT are having to drag up testimonies from the past -and it's always seemed telling that none are from anyone who knew him pre-murders- it possibly suggests that interest in him is declining.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:11:16 PM
This was written before I know Jeremy so pre 2011. Many of those who wrote testimonies are no longer in contact with Jeremy eg Tom Sturgeon and Maria Perez.  It would be interesting to know what they think of him now. Come on Steph I am sure you could track them down and find out.

None of the testimonies are recent although the CT would want you to believe they are.

I've never heard of the people you mention Daisy.

But I imagine they sussed out they had been groomed and conned by a psychopath and most probably want to be left alone.

Maybe one day they will speak out, who knows?

Why would I want to track them down? They are yet further victims of a dangerous and highly disordered individual.

If you know these people, why don't you track them down and tell us why they are no longer in contact with Bamber?

Maybe they feel the same way you do?

Thanks for the update Myster. I wonder what was in the letter. The team are getting pretty desperate now I think.

Actually he didn't dump me. I went to visit him one morning and didn't bother to go back in the afternoon. I then wrote to him and told him I had removed my number from his contacts and I wanted nothing more to do with him. I told him what a despicable person he was demanding money from me then being abusive when I refused to give it to him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 05, 2018, 12:25:15 PM
I've never heard of the people you mention Daisy.

But I imagine they sussed out they had been groomed and conned by a psychopath and most probably want to be left alone.

Maybe one day they will speak out, who knows?

Why would I want to track them down? They are yet further victims of a dangerous and highly disordered individual.

If you know these people, why don't you track them down and tell us why they are no longer in contact with Bamber?


They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672.  Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:33:03 PM

They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672.  Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.

But we know Jeremy Bamber is a liar and consummate actor

Maybe the accounts were fake

Maybe Maria what's her name doesn't exist?

And you only have to look at what Jackiepreece has said about his supporters http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2517.0

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2016.0

5th January 2012
Grahame states:
"Who are these TRAITORS to Jeremy's cause? MARIA PEREZ and JOANNA TEW. Obviously they don't have the intellect of a slug and are just as slimy. Stay away from them Jackie. Did I notice Tracy Holloway in there? Stay away from these creeps Tracy. These two people are poison and pose as supporters. But are traitors to the cause. Where do they get their misinformation about you Jackie? Someone is stirring the shit.
Let every intelligent supporter of Jeremy know that Jackie Preece has never ever spoken evil of either Jeremy or Simon McKay. Anyone who continues to spread these malicious rumours will have me to contend with and those who know me know that when I get going I can really cause trouble for you. Beware you traitors. The shit is ready and the fan is at hand. WARNING YOU LITTLE TYROS. LAY OFF JACKIE
.
Maria Parez and Joanna Tew. You're in my sights already. Watch your step from now on.

Jackiepreece states:
"Threats will go straight to the prison and then maybe Jeremy will keep all his ugly foul mouthed groupies in line
Jeremy needs to grow up they are all people not capable of finding a genuine boyfriend
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:49:59 PM
I cannot decide between besotted or obsessed?

Jackiepreece refers to them as "groupies" http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2016.msg61675.html#msg61675
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:54:11 PM

They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672.  Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.

Maybe "Maria" is/was an alter ego of one of the hardcore supporters? Poppy Miller maybe? Who knows?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 12:56:37 PM
But we know Jeremy Bamber is a liar and consummate actor

Maybe the accounts were fake

Maybe Maria what's her name doesn't exist?

And you only have to look at what Jackiepreece has said about his supporters http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2517.0

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2016.0

5th January 2012
Grahame states:
"Who are these TRAITORS to Jeremy's cause? MARIA PEREZ and JOANNA TEW. Obviously they don't have the intellect of a slug and are just as slimy. Stay away from them Jackie. Did I notice Tracy Holloway in there? Stay away from these creeps Tracy. These two people are poison and pose as supporters. But are traitors to the cause. Where do they get their misinformation about you Jackie? Someone is stirring the shit.
Let every intelligent supporter of Jeremy know that Jackie Preece has never ever spoken evil of either Jeremy or Simon McKay. Anyone who continues to spread these malicious rumours will have me to contend with and those who know me know that when I get going I can really cause trouble for you. Beware you traitors. The shit is ready and the fan is at hand. WARNING YOU LITTLE TYROS. LAY OFF JACKIE
.
Maria Parez and Joanna Tew. You're in my sights already. Watch your step from now on.

Jackiepreece states:
"Threats will go straight to the prison and then maybe Jeremy will keep all his ugly foul mouthed groupies in line

Jeremy needs to grow up they are all people not capable of finding a genuine boyfriend[/i]

Btw Jackiepreece does send her threats to the prison, I have the evidence in Simon Hall's prison security files.

Maybe these factors are taken into consideration by the prison authorities and why Jeremy Bamber will never be released from prison or ever get another appeal.

If Jeremy Bamber can exert this kind of power and control over his supporters, imagine what he did to Julie Mugford  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 01:01:53 PM
Maybe "Maria" is/was an alter ego of one of the hardcore supporters? Poppy Miller maybe? Who knows?


Mmm. Using that as a format a small number of groupies could become thousands in an instant.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 01:06:50 PM

Mmm. Using that as a format a small number of groupies could become thousands in an instant.

Well they were the tactics deployed by Simon Hall's brother
and of course the likes of Kevin Craigie & Mike Tesco have numerous alter egos
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 01:16:27 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber

https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en


They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672.  Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.

Daisy if you decide to complete the above form re the J B Campaign Ltd company you could simply copy and paste your first few posts on this forum

You stated:
"I have read both this and the blue forum for sometime and with the utmost respect, many of those on both forums have formed opinions on Jeremy as regards his innocence/guilt and what type of person he is.  Many have never written, spoken to or met him.  This is why I have decided to share with you the friendship I have had with Jeremy for almost three years.  He was, I thought one of my dearest and closest friends but I seriously misjudged this man.  This will probably be a long post so I will do it in chunks so you don't get bored!
I started writing to Jeremy sometime ago after reading new information about the case and feeling that all didn't seem right.  I live not far from Essex so have always read about his case in the local papers.  I very soon became involved in the Campaign and typed some of the documents for his last CCRC submissions.  I have also done all I can to ask those in power to listen and have written to my MP,  the Prime Minister,the MOJ, the Home Secretary, CPS, IPCC etc.  I have had conversations with officials at the CCRC and also exchanged emails and spoken on the phone to Professional Standards at Essex Police. I also phoned some of the scientists who examined the sound moderator who were very pleasant towards me but adament they had come to the right conclusion. The Campaign Team told me that I was getting more results and responses than themselves.  When the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while, I never heard from them again and my emails went unanswered. 

Jeremy and I spoke on the phone two or three times a week and I sent him a generous monthly allowance.  We shared our hopes and dreams and I always told him he was an extended part of my family.  I just wanted him to feel that he belonged and I told him I would always support him no matter what.  He always told me I was one of his closest friends and one of the only people he could trust.  When I went on holiday, he made me promise to email him, he always phoned me on Christmas day and I truly believed our friendship was genuine.  I continued to do whatever I could to help him, even tracking down a retired senior Essex Police Officer for his help which he initially said he would do, then asked me never to contact him again!  Jeremy has sent me many documents which have never been in the public domain but I can say that none of them absolutely proved his innocence. There is one though, which indicates that there MAY have been life inside the house while Jeremy was outside but that needs investigating further.
Jeremy is witty, makes me laugh and usually cheeful in spite of the conditions he lives under.  I discovered though that he has a dark side.  He was often very evasive when I asked him questions about the case and if I ever disagreed with a piece of evidence or events, he would turn on me and shout and swear.  He told me lots of lies and in the end I took everything he said with a pinch of salt.  On my birthday last year, he sent me a lovely card telling me what a special friend I was and he promised to be with me to celebrate in 2014.  Then things changed drasticall between us. . . . . . . .

In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests.  He demanded I send him £4,000.  Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials.  He told me to mind my own business and just pay up.  He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan.  He was very threatening and abusive.  When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim."  I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call.  For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him.  He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.  He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay.  I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them".   That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.  I now realise I was there purely for the money.  I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him.  I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend.  This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy.  I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have?  Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside.  I feel desperately sorry for him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 01:19:37 PM

They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672.  Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.

Are you saying Jeremy Bamber confirmed Maria Perez visited him in prison? Did he tell you this?

ALL his visitors will be recorded in his prison files and this is something Her Majesty's Priosn and Probation services can investigate in confidence.

If the J B Campaign Ltd company are posting fraudulent testimonies of people who do not exist it will add more weight to any future investigation

And of course testimonies that are no longer relevant (like for example, when a once supporter now believes Bamber to be guilty) http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tom-sturgeon
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
This is highly alarming IMO. Do the Essex Partnership University NHS Trust actually know Poppy Ann Miller supports and campaigns for a mass murdering psychopath? https://eput.nhs.uk/about-us/council-of-governors/


http://poppyannmiller.blogspot.co.uk
My Mental Health Years:
Over the past thirty plus years I have worked in a variety of therapeutic roles with many people with varying degrees of mental ill health, from stress and anxiety, mild, low-mood to the deepest black hole of severe depression and suicidal thoughts; within a residential community, Social Services and the National Health Service and continue in my private counselling practise.  I use an integrative model, depending on the client though favour a psychodynamic approach, that is, making the unconscious, conscious, as so much of who we are today stems from our early, often repressed, suppressed, formative years.  Am currently a publicly elected governor with Essex Partnership University NHS Trust.

The residential community I first worked with was, at the time, one of only two of its kind in the country, the other being The Richmond Fellowship who delivered much of our training and supervision.  The aim was to work in innovative ways with residents, ‘community members’.

I was new to residential and no doubt naive having been thrown in the deep end but I could see that a number of staff appeared to have more ‘issues’ than the residents.  My ‘supervisor’ was a trained nurse though had not worked in that role for several years and had no mental health training.  Never-the-less I learnt a lot in my three years with them and have some fond memories of both staff and community members.

Matthew:  All names have been changed.
After several months I was relieved to be allocated a new supervisor who was experienced, respectful and supportive of my ways of working and my perspective.  She had been in a team who were trying to work with alternate ways of helping clients who hear ‘voices’.  Examples; to try not to ‘own’ the voices as in, ‘my’ voices and whether responding to ‘voices’, rather than trying to block them out, could be therapeutic.  Matthew wanted to give it a try.

He was in his thirties, visited family most weekends and had said that walking across the field and alongside a lake to the bus station was when his ‘attacks’ were at their worse.  The following Friday evening as usual as he walked he was drawn to the water and the voices began telling him to jump in.  Matthew had explained that the terror of not obeying the voices had been worse than the fear of drowning but this time, instead of trying to block them with his hands over his ears, he replied,
‘No!  I’m going home’.  Then turning to me he said, ‘And I realised it was a load of bollocks.  You know?  What they were saying, if my mate had told me to do that I’d have told him to f..k off!'

He went on to say that it was as if a door had opened and he could choose to step through or stay locked inside.  Of course it was not all plain-sailing but Matthew left the community a few months later a much freer and peaceful man.

Clarissa:
Abused and violated on many levels and who, when I resigned, presented me with a pair of Indian cotton trousers; purples, blues and turquoise which she had bought from a charity shop.  I don’t wear second-hand clothes, repercussions of being a kid and wearing everyone else’s but I did wear those trousers and still do.  That was over 25 years ago.

Alim:
‘You cannot keep birds from flying over your head
but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair’.

One of Alim’s favourite quotations, though he spoke very little, well, in the presence of staff anyway.

In his early twenties, Alim still looked boyish - fragile - slight.  His controlled food intake and exercise regime meant that he walked miles daily so was outside the community setting for many hours at a time.  I'd rather not read case-notes extensively unless of course I need to know of any risks, preferring the person to confide in me if and when they want to though I knew Alim had been abused repeatedly by a paedophile ring before he came to England.  We would often spend our allocated sessions in silence which became easier for me with more practice and I could relax and ‘be’ not ‘do’, more recently known as ‘mindfulness’.  Never-the-less I felt I was letting Alim down, maybe he needed someone more skilled, more experienced than myself?  He offered no response when I told him I was leaving and did not attend my leaving ‘do’.  Several weeks later I received an envelope with a post-mark I recognised.  Inside, a silk painting had been stuck to a piece of folded card with the words, ‘Thank you, I will miss you.’  Inside they continued, ‘I was always too frightened to get close to anyone….but I really love you…’  Still brings a lump to my throat.

It was not all success, there was the time when a community member threw a coke bottle at me because I had stood in front of the TV and learning the invaluable lesson of never telling anyone to ‘calm down’ after being drenched with a mug of tea, fortunately only luke warm.

I have developed further ‘tools’ for clients who find it difficult to verbally express their feelings, either due to never being allowed a ‘voice’ or for those who struggle to find the ‘right’ words.  Always their choice of course; we have worked with drawings, dreams, toys, buttons, clothing, stress bucket!

Working with clients is a two way thing.  Not in the counselling sense of ‘projection’ or ‘transference’, more in that if we aim to be really present with our client, we learn things about ourselves also.  Two people may appear to be sitting in silence but there is often cacophony in the room.  It was partly experience gained in that therapeutic community that set me on the path of alternate ways of working.  Although Carl Rogers is always associated with the client centred model, in my opinion, congruence and unconditional, positive regard is essential in all therapeutic relationships and may provide a conducive environment for the deepest revelations.

Leah:
We worked together in my role as Family Group Conference Facilitator Mental Health.  Leah had attempted suicide several times.  An intelligent woman who had been teaching in Higher Education until she became unwell.

Leah had developed compulsive disorders and was also becoming violent towards her husband.  My role was to meet with her and help her plan her ‘conference’.  I would then contact the family members and friends she had invited and meet with them if they wanted to be involved.

Family Group Conferencing is an invaluable service.  Provides opportunity - and permission - for all participants to put a face to a name, share feelings, suggestions and agree boundaries; providing a framework of security around the service user.  The process also gives opportunity to air the myths around mental illness; for example, ‘suicide attempts or self harm are merely cries for help’.

It was once thought to be the case that if a sufferer speaks about suicide then they would not carry out the act but that is a false theory.  Through my experience I am persuaded that the majority of those who suffer in this way do not want to die, they just cannot carry on living.  Often these very intelligent, gifted sufferers have formed their own diagnosis, prognosis and course of treatment and appear to have made the decision to end their life with a 'sound mind’.  Hard to understand, it almost appears to be a different aspect of mental illness - possibly requiring an independent or additional diagnosis but…I am not a clinician.

I was speaking with a company director about my work and he said that even though he is on the board of a mental health committee, he actually finds the topic frightening.  I suspect that most people who work outside the field only consider severe conditions, such as psychosis and schizophrenia as mental illness, when in reality, addiction to alcohol, shopping, food, social media, are also examples of symptoms of mental health imbalance to a greater or lesser degree.

Regardless of background, status, age or gender, mental health is a common denominator and statistics show mental ill health as a growing problem, with anxiety and depression reported as the most prevalent condition.  At a time when funding is being cut from many services this can be a challenge, however promoting mental health awareness does not need to be costly and I feel it is time to add ‘mental health awareness and well-being’ to the school curriculum and encourage larger companies to include mental health awareness in their induction process.

Hopefully adopting these practises will assist with normalising the topic, allowing discussion to be frank and feel less threatening and preventing feelings of isolation

IMHO Poppy Ann Miller should be reported to the appropriate authorities. She should not be working with vulnerable individuals.

https://eput.nhs.uk/contact-us/complaints/

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2517.msg77472.html#msg77472

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoppyMeze/status/187487774943887362

Although blogs are removed the footprint will remain http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/jeremy-bamber-anthony-pargeter.html

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4094.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 02:16:25 PM
Pinned Tweet
Jeremy Bamber
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
·
2h
"...if he were dead he would always be with me.”
Jeremy Bamber's ex-girlfriend Julie Mugford

Marking 15 years since #JeremyBamber's only full appeal: "The Last Week" is an audio drama performed by professional actors: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-…
Embedded

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets


The J B Campaign Ltd company are re victimising Jeremy Bambers victims.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 03:14:36 PM
Daisy if you decide to complete the above form re the J B Campaign Ltd company you could simply copy and paste your first few posts on this forum

You stated:
"I have read both this and the blue forum for sometime and with the utmost respect, many of those on both forums have formed opinions on Jeremy as regards his innocence/guilt and what type of person he is.  Many have never written, spoken to or met him.  This is why I have decided to share with you the friendship I have had with Jeremy for almost three years.  He was, I thought one of my dearest and closest friends but I seriously misjudged this man.  This will probably be a long post so I will do it in chunks so you don't get bored!
I started writing to Jeremy sometime ago after reading new information about the case and feeling that all didn't seem right.  I live not far from Essex so have always read about his case in the local papers.  I very soon became involved in the Campaign and typed some of the documents for his last CCRC submissions.  I have also done all I can to ask those in power to listen and have written to my MP,  the Prime Minister,the MOJ, the Home Secretary, CPS, IPCC etc.  I have had conversations with officials at the CCRC and also exchanged emails and spoken on the phone to Professional Standards at Essex Police. I also phoned some of the scientists who examined the sound moderator who were very pleasant towards me but adament they had come to the right conclusion. The Campaign Team told me that I was getting more results and responses than themselves.  When the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while, I never heard from them again and my emails went unanswered. 

Jeremy and I spoke on the phone two or three times a week and I sent him a generous monthly allowance.  We shared our hopes and dreams and I always told him he was an extended part of my family.  I just wanted him to feel that he belonged and I told him I would always support him no matter what.  He always told me I was one of his closest friends and one of the only people he could trust.  When I went on holiday, he made me promise to email him, he always phoned me on Christmas day and I truly believed our friendship was genuine.  I continued to do whatever I could to help him, even tracking down a retired senior Essex Police Officer for his help which he initially said he would do, then asked me never to contact him again!  Jeremy has sent me many documents which have never been in the public domain but I can say that none of them absolutely proved his innocence. There is one though, which indicates that there MAY have been life inside the house while Jeremy was outside but that needs investigating further.
Jeremy is witty, makes me laugh and usually cheeful in spite of the conditions he lives under.  I discovered though that he has a dark side.  He was often very evasive when I asked him questions about the case and if I ever disagreed with a piece of evidence or events, he would turn on me and shout and swear.  He told me lots of lies and in the end I took everything he said with a pinch of salt.  On my birthday last year, he sent me a lovely card telling me what a special friend I was and he promised to be with me to celebrate in 2014.  Then things changed drasticall between us. . . . . . . .

In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests.  He demanded I send him £4,000.  Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials.  He told me to mind my own business and just pay up.  He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan.  He was very threatening and abusive.  When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim."  I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call.  For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him.  He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.  He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay.  I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them".   That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.  I now realise I was there purely for the money.  I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him.  I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend.  This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy.  I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have?  Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside.  I feel desperately sorry for him.

Daisy the way those representing the J B Campaign ltd behaved towards you is and was appalling and bordering on the criminal. I really think you should report what happened to you to the insolvency service.

Who's to say they haven't done this to someone else but they've been too afraid to speak out?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 03:25:13 PM
Maybe "Maria" is/was an alter ego of one of the hardcore supporters? Poppy Miller maybe? Who knows?

Appears fake to me http://tweettunnel.com/mariaperez672 Dynamomagician?

https://mobile.twitter.com/MariaPerez672

Why would Jeremy Bamber say to Daisy,  Maria Perez was visiting him?  @)(++(*


They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672.  Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.

Do you have written evidence of this Daisy or did he tell you on a prison visit/or during a telephone conversation?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2018, 03:43:13 PM
Btw Jackiepreece does send her threats to the prison, I have the evidence in Simon Hall's prison security files.

Maybe these factors are taken into consideration by the prison authorities and why Jeremy Bamber will never be released from prison or ever get another appeal.

If Jeremy Bamber can exert this kind of power and control over his supporters, imagine what he did to Julie Mugford  *&^^&

In my opinion Julie is lucky she is not serving a sentence with him.  Had she not come clean about what she knew and cooperated fully with the police from the beginning she might well have been seen as an accomplice since she too was involved in the shenanigans at Osea Caravan Park.  I think she was extremely lucky to get off Scot free.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 03:47:01 PM
In my opinion Julie is lucky she is not serving a sentence with him.  Had she not come clean about what she knew and cooperated fully with the police from the beginning she might well have been seen as an accomplice since she too was involved in the shenanigans at Osea Caravan Park.  I think she was extremely lucky to get off Scot free.

I agree Holly, it would have been so much easier for them to have gone with the four murders and a suicide instead of the five murders scenario.  It would have saved the taxpayer a fortune too.

Essex Police did a good job with DS Stan Jones being very much the kingpin in nailing Jeremy Bamber.  Bamber's cockness was his undoing, on the day of the murders he dropped his guard with Julie Mugford and fortunately Jones was quick to notice it.

You can hardly say she got off scott free. She's been vilified for decades and left the country to start a new life and may have been forced to do so. None of us know the exact details.

Julie Mugford was in a psychologically abusive relationship. If it weren't for her evidence there is a possibility Bamber may have walked free.

Psychopaths like Bamber exert control and power over their victims.

Furthermore, her last public interview claimed she had lived with the guilt of not knowing if she'd have come forward earlier the murders may have been avoided. That, I imagine, is a heavy burden for anyone with a conscience to carry around.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 05, 2018, 05:52:23 PM
Appears fake to me http://tweettunnel.com/mariaperez672 Dynamomagician?

https://mobile.twitter.com/MariaPerez672

Why would Jeremy Bamber say to Daisy,  Maria Perez was visiting him?  @)(++(*

Do you have written evidence of this Daisy or did he tell you on a prison visit/or during a telephone conversation?

We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 06:24:37 PM
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.

Am I reading you correctly, Daisy? Earlier you said Maria made known that she was Jeremy's girlfriend on her Twitter account. It reads as if Tom -whoever he is- is Maria's husband. If such is the case might it -"something must have gone horribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him (Jeremy)"- have to do with that Tom disapproved of his wife making a public announcement that she was Jeremy's girlfriend?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 05, 2018, 06:53:07 PM
Am I reading you correctly, Daisy? Earlier you said Maria made known that she was Jeremy's girlfriend on her Twitter account. It reads as if Tom -whoever he is- is Maria's husband. If such is the case might it -"something must have gone horribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him (Jeremy)"- have to do with that Tom disapproved of his wife making a public announcement that she was Jeremy's girlfriend?

No sorry you have misunderstood me. They are separate people. Maria is a young woman and Tom is a man in his sixties. He and his wife visited Jeremy a lot and he typed a lot of documents for the campaign.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 05, 2018, 07:06:36 PM
No sorry you have misunderstood me. They are separate people. Maria is a young woman and Tom is a man in his sixties. He and his wife visited Jeremy a lot and he typed a lot of documents for the campaign.


Thanks for clarifying, Daisy. I could have been responsible for starting a rumour!!! @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 07:17:46 PM
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.

Was Maria Jeremy's girlfriend or have I misunderstood?

"Fond of life and living for the moment. Promotes all causes. Lives with Barney and Smudge and is one very happy lady with Jeremy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MariaPerez672

Wonder why Jackiepreece didn't know about this?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 07:26:56 PM
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.

Jeremy was most likely fond of the pocket money Tom and his wife were bunging his way. Jeremy isn't capable of attaching to someone through feelings; he regards people as fuel sources. Though he may talk a good talk. Psychopaths are convincing.

So Tom and his wife did a runner it seems. Good for them. I hope they are keeping well and well away from Bamber!



"Psychopaths are prone to interact through manipulation and to use others for their sole benefit, even if this creates pain and devastation for the target. Extending love and care to them will not impact the expression of pathology from the psychopathic partner.

The vast symptoms of this condition include traits such as:

lack of or minimal empathy

callousness

manipulation

pathological lying

charm

a tendency toward boredom

arrogance

blame shifting

dominance

aggression

impulsivity

In companies, individuals with psychopathy can orchestrate the loss of jobs, turn people against each other, or divide a team. Within intimate relationships, they can leave partners and family members struggling with the impact of trauma, betrayal, and abuse, potentially lasting years after they are gone.

Aside from problems such as minimal empathy, antagonism, manipulation, and anger, 6 additional factors that hinder safe relationships with a psychopath:

Minimal capacity to bond.
At the beginning of their intimate relationships, they are typically excited and stimulated by their new partner. This state can easily be mistaken as bonding and deep caring for their mate. However, this tends to be the dopamine-driven stage of romantic love that can feel like addictive attraction. Once that fades, so does their interest. It is often at this point that they display disdain for their partner.
 
Dysfunctional relationship cycle.
They often demonstrate a predictable cyclical style of intimate relationships that are common for those with cluster B personality disorders. They idealize, devalue, and then discard their partners, with no concern for the pain they leave behind. Given that they never had a bond with their mate in the first place, walking away from the relationship causes them little to no discomfort. Many are happy to move along to the next target, particularly if they left their former mate in the "loser" position.
 
Inability to offer a genuine apology.
Psychopathy is a disorder that hampers the ability to feel guilt and remorse. Due to faulty brain functions, there is a tendency to engage in immoral behavior. When they hurt someone or cause damage, they usually will not offer an apology. If what appears to be an apology is offered, it is rarely beyond words and tends to include an element of distancing and minimizing (“I made a mistake”). The feelings of guilt and remorse are missing because these emotional states are not within their capacity. Therefore, the typical contrition that would naturally follow when one has caused harm to another will be absent. Their stance is typically, "Move on," "Let it go," "You're too sensitive," or, "Why are you still talking about that—it's in the past!"
 
Presence of high narcissism.
For those with primary psychopathy, it is in their nature to have an incredibly inflated, grandiose sense of self. They do not need or care about the approval of others. Any desire they have for control or worship is associated with feelings of superiority, not insecurity. Unfortunately, for the individual with psychopathy, there tends to be no genuine interest in friendships.
 
Everyone is assigned a role and has a use: "You're my object."
They have a strong need for power and control and often place others in the role of "loser," even those who demonstrate loyalty, trust and love toward them. Psychopathic individuals usually have a "use" for those they keep close. They consider some people puppets, who will defend them, agree with them, or sacrifice their reputation to protect them. It is often their preference to have numerous puppets. For many with psychopathy, this role is also assigned to their intimate partner. Read more here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neurosagacity/201506/6-obstacles-relationship-psychopath
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 07:48:30 PM
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.

How did the campaign pay tribute to these people? Via private email or something?

I'm still not convinced Maria existed Daisy. But if I'm wrong then fair enough.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2018, 07:55:31 PM
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.

Seems to happen all the time and even with lawyers.  After a while the real Jeremy Bamber comes through and that is why people give up.  Some even change their mind about his guilt.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 08:43:03 PM
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.

I can't help but sense you have Bamber on a pedastal Daisy. Forgive me if I'm wrong but why say "Tom to have deserted him" like Tom did something wrong?

It makes more sense to me that Bamber treated Tom amd his wife badly, the same as he did you and 101 other people.

Bamber has a track record for dumping people as Amgelo222 has pointed out.

What work was this Maria Perez meant to have done for Bamber? Did anyone actually meet her? Where did she come from? I'm still not convinced.. Were they boyfriend and girlfriend?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 05, 2018, 09:14:45 PM
An announcement was made on the  OS thanking them. Maria and Tom regularly tweeted about the case. Jeremy talked about Tom a lot and was very fond of him. Maybe someone turned Jeremy against Tom as just before Tom walked away he kept tweeting remarks like “never trust anyone “ and similar remarks. His account was suspended. He was clearly very angry about something. Maria is also vey real and Jackie knew all about her as did many others. She was very much involved in the campaign.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 09:18:48 PM
An announcement was made on the  OS thanking them. Maria and Tom regularly tweeted about the case. Jeremy talked about Tom a lot and was very fond of him. Maybe someone turned Jeremy against Tom as just before Tom walked away he kept tweeting remarks like “never trust anyone “ and similar remarks. His account was suspended. He was clearly very angry about something. Maria is also vey real and Jackie knew all about her as did many others. She was very much involved in the campaign.

How do you know Jackie knew all about Maria, are you friends with Jackie?

Poor Tom, sounds like Bamber betrayed him
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 05, 2018, 09:27:11 PM
How do you know Jackie knew all about Maria, are you friends with Jackie?

Poor Tom, sounds like Bamber betrayed him

Jackie was very much involved with the campaign so she knew everyone connected to it according to Jeremy.  No I don't know her personally and am not friends with her.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 09:33:03 PM
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if one of them was called Brett.

As to Simon McKay, he quickly distanced himself from any association with Bamber as soon as his name started to appear across the www.  You might have noticed that any threads on here have been archived.

NGB Stated:
"Nick - I will answer your questions as well as I can:

Jeremy tried to call me at the weekend to wish me a happy new year and to give me an update. Unfortunately I was not able to take the call but he left a voicemail message.  He said that the work to prepare the final submissions is going well and the submissions will be made by the deadline of the end of this month.  He also said that the ECHR decision on his whole life tariff is expected on 17th January.

I anticipate that the CCRC will take several weeks to review the final submissions.  My guess is that a decision is likely at the end of March at the earliest, and more likely in April.  It is possible that the submissions will include renewed requests for the CCRC to obtain additional evidence using their section 17 CAA powers. If so it is possible that there will be a further delay for scientific examination to be carried out, and further supplementary submissions made.  I emphasise that this is just my own view and is not based upon anything I have been told by Jeremy.

Simon McKay became involved as a result of Jackie's twitter campaign.  As I understand it he started following Jackie on twitter and expressed an interest in the case.  Jackie passed this on to the campaign team and also told Jeremy.  I know Jeremy was considering the question of his legal representation because he discussed it with me.  Eventually a visit was arranged and Simon spent a long time with Jeremy discussing the case.  Following this meeting Simon offered to take on the case and Jeremy, after very careful consideration, decided to instruct him.  This was a major decision for Jeremy in view of the limited time available but in my view (without going into the discussions I had with Jeremy about this) he made a sound decision for the right reasons.  I do not know Simon McKay and have never spoken to him but from what he has said via twitter I understand that he has taken on the case (it is significant that he takes on very few cases and is therefore able to be selective) because he believes Jeremy to be the victim of a miscarriage of Justice.  I know that Simon gave Jeremy a commitment about the resources he would put into the case (bear in mind he is acting pro bono) and Jeremy has been very pleased that Simon has done what he said he would.

Jeremy remains confident that the case will be referred to the Court of Appeal and that he will succeed in an appeal against his convictions.  If the CCRC's final decision is not to refer the case to the Court of Appeal the campaign on behalf of Jeremy will continue.  Obviously I am not able to speak on behalf of Simon McKay but I anticipate that he would continue to support Jeremy.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2016.msg61724.html#msg61724
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2018, 09:50:10 PM
Jackie was very much involved with the campaign so she knew everyone connected to it according to Jeremy.  No I don't know her personally and am not friends with her.

Jackie stated: "All I can say is good luck, nice scam Jeremy

Bottom line is NO ONE trusts Jeremy Bamber

His campaign days are over

He should admit his guilt and show some remorse for murdering his family, that's the only hope he has left - as pointed out by a Supreme Court judge

"what tipped the balance for me in voting with the majority was the Court’s confirmation, in this judgment, that Article 3 encompasses what might be described as “the right to hope”. It goes no further than that. The judgment recognises, implicitly, that hope is an important and constitutive aspect of the human person. Those who commit the most abhorrent and egregious of acts and who inflict untold suffering upon others, nevertheless retain their fundamental humanity and carry within themselves the capacity to change. Long and deserved though their prison sentences may be, they retain the right to hope that, someday, they may have atoned for the wrongs which they have committed. They ought not to be deprived entirely of such hope. To deny them the experience of hope would be to deny a fundamental aspect of their humanity and, to do that, would be degrading.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 12:08:55 PM
Looks like the J B Campaign Ltd have gone into overdrive re their tweeting

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets

"Writing & sending gifts to #JeremyBamber - write; use (link: http://emailaprisoner.com) emailaprisoner.com; sending money directly using (link: https://www.gov.uk/send-prisoner-money) gov.uk/send-prisoner-…; what you can and can't send Jeremy. You can even donate towards essential forensic investigation

"More about the inheritance issues after the #WhiteHouseFarm tragedy... the #JeremyBamber case uncovered:

"Inheriting BEFORE the trial of #JeremyBamber & then lying about it in court... take a look at the evidence...

"Local people tell that Robert Boutflour felt #JeremyBamber was a 'cuckoo' in the nest & he had cruelly nick named him so. This was a family joke to ridicule the adoptee Jeremy. Robert also described Jeremy as engaging in 'unsavoury homosexual activities'. (link: https://jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflour/) jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflo…

"...the issue of who would inherit my parent’s estate, with the Jury specifically asking if the beneficiaries could be any of the prosecution witnesses. They were told that certainly none of the prosecution witnesses would inherit..." #JeremyBamber (link: https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/on-31st-anniversary-of-jeremys-wrongful.html) jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/on-31s…

"#JeremyBamber Patron @Michelle_Diskin is the sister of Barry George who was wrongly convicted in 2001 of the killing of TV presenter Jill Dando. His conviction was quashed at appeal in 2007 and in 2008 he was retried and found, unanimously, not guilty: (link: https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html) jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/justic…

"Sajid Javid MP, Home Secretary: Essex police release ALL documents withheld to #JeremyBamber’s Legal Defence Team with immediate effect. Sign the #Petition! (link: https://chn.ge/2rc35ka) chn.ge/2rc35ka  via @UKChange
Join the fight for justice!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 06, 2018, 12:36:02 PM
Looks like the J B Campaign Ltd have gone into overdrive re their tweeting

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets

"Writing & sending gifts to #JeremyBamber - write; use (link: http://emailaprisoner.com) emailaprisoner.com; sending money directly using (link: https://www.gov.uk/send-prisoner-money) gov.uk/send-prisoner-…; what you can and can't send Jeremy. You can even donate towards essential forensic investigation

"More about the inheritance issues after the #WhiteHouseFarm tragedy... the #JeremyBamber case uncovered:

"Inheriting BEFORE the trial of #JeremyBamber & then lying about it in court... take a look at the evidence...

"Local people tell that Robert Boutflour felt #JeremyBamber was a 'cuckoo' in the nest & he had cruelly nick named him so. This was a family joke to ridicule the adoptee Jeremy. Robert also described Jeremy as engaging in 'unsavoury homosexual activities'. (link: https://jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflour/) jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflo…

"...the issue of who would inherit my parent’s estate, with the Jury specifically asking if the beneficiaries could be any of the prosecution witnesses. They were told that certainly none of the prosecution witnesses would inherit..." #JeremyBamber (link: https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/on-31st-anniversary-of-jeremys-wrongful.html) jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/on-31s…

"#JeremyBamber Patron @Michelle_Diskin is the sister of Barry George who was wrongly convicted in 2001 of the killing of TV presenter Jill Dando. His conviction was quashed at appeal in 2007 and in 2008 he was retried and found, unanimously, not guilty: (link: https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html) jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/justic…

"Sajid Javid MP, Home Secretary: Essex police release ALL documents withheld to #JeremyBamber’s Legal Defence Team with immediate effect. Sign the #Petition! (link: https://chn.ge/2rc35ka) chn.ge/2rc35ka  via @UKChange
Join the fight for justice!

I think we can counter any propaganda they put out on twitter and appreciate the heads up.   8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 12:55:01 PM
I think we can counter any propaganda they put out on twitter and appreciate the heads up.   8((()*/

 8((()*/

https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company


"In December 2015 I was very pleased to announce the launch of The JB Campaign Limited, which is a ‘Not For Profit’ Private Limited Company. Having thought long and hard about the campaign to keep Jeremy’s case in the public domain and the issues that need resolving to get traction on an Appeal, the only conclusion was that we needed to be able to raise money.  Supporters often ask how they can make donations but in order to do this effectively and legitimately the decision was made by the campaign team to set up The Jeremy Bamber Campaign as a legal entity.
Our aim is to raise funds towards any legal or forensic costs not currently covered Pro Bono.  There is an opportunity for people to give cash using a donate button on the website, we will be offering opportunities for appropriate advertising, along with a range of merchandise.   Other exciting projects are in the planning process and will be announced in due course.

I am very proud, alongside my husband Pat Benjamin, to be a Director of the organisation and we are delighted to be working with the Campaign Management Team to maintain a high standard of business and accounting practices.   In accordance, with requirements by Companies House, all monies will be accounted for and annual accounts will be filed.    The Directors and Management Team give their time and expertise for free.

The decision to generate revenue in this way was taken partly because of the denigration of legal aid and the funding crisis for prisoners such as Jeremy but also because of the outrage we feel at the continued wrongful conviction and 31-year loss of liberty of an innocent man.    Our hope is that campaigners and supporters, who feel as we do, will give generously to help Jeremy gain the freedom he so richly deserves.

Please look at the “Management Team” to find out more about who we are and the 'Operations' page to find out how we work. http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jb-campaign-ltd-and-directors

Management team http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/directors-and-management-team

Operations page http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/about

Evidence on our Web Site


Material on this web site is true and accurate to the best of our knowledge, where not
academically referenced; documentary evidence is available to support all claims. We never have and never will publish photographs of dead bodies and do not agree with photographs of this nature of Jeremy's dead family being posted on the Internet. We do however, post links to or scans of newspaper articles from mainstream media which are deemed suitable for public viewing and also pertain to Jeremy's innocence. Our opinions are offered under protection of Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (the "Convention"), which has been incorporated into UK law by the Human Rights Act 1998. Check out our blog

© There is no objection to any material on this website being reproduced free of charge, but it should be credited to this web address copyright of "Jeremy Bamber Campaign"  Contact Our Central Admin Here
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 03:17:57 PM
 @)(++(* https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/993093519203098624
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 03:54:08 PM
Lookout states: "I've always maintained that " mummy's boys " end up criminals or gay.  *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg438730.html#msg438730

I wonder if she makes statements like this in her letters to Bamber?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 04:22:30 PM
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this.  ()678%

Or the head of Essex police

This one seems unhinged like the one who harassed and stalked Kerry Daynes

https://www.rt.com/uk/265273-social-media-cops-crime/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 04:42:14 PM
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this.  ()678%

Re Online threats http://www.report-it.org.uk/home
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 06, 2018, 04:45:03 PM
Am I the only one who thinks it rather strange that back in the days when I was a virgin forumite, it was said to be known categorically -indeed, we were told there was unquestionable evidence in both documentation and secret photographs which only one person has ever seen- that certain persons, not Jeremy, were accidentally responsible for Sheila's death by shooting her on two different occasions, having mislaid her between shots, after Sheila had shot the rest of the family -NOW comes the strange part!- various alternatives to this set in stone, evidential truth are still being offered? New characters are being added to the mix. New scenarios are being suggested. I wonder how it's possible for unequivocal truth to change?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 06, 2018, 06:28:40 PM
Re Online threats http://www.report-it.org.uk/home
Wish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.

I got called a paedo, threatened to come to my house, s..mbag and had my email address and IP address exposed all by the owner of a forum.  Why you may ask, because I exposed a fake doctored (backed up by mods) police document.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 06:41:36 PM
Wish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.

I got called a paedo, threatened to come to my house, s..mbag and had my email address and IP address exposed all by the owner of a forum.  Why you may ask, because I exposed a fake doctored (backed up by mods) police document.

Hey RJ, are you referring to the blue forum?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 06, 2018, 06:48:58 PM
Hey RJ, are you referring to the blue forum?
Yes Steph, I’d been a member for ten years and I exposed a fake doctored police document, Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered me their full support. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 06:55:53 PM
Yes Steph, I’d been a member for ten years and I exposed a fake doctored police document, Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered me their full support.

Are you referring to Mike Tesco? I'm presuming it's all been removed? How long ago did it happen?

Good to see you posting here btw!  8((()*/

Were you banned then?


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 06, 2018, 07:06:47 PM
Are you referring to Mike Tesco? I'm presuming it's all been removed? How long ago did it happen?

Good to see you posting here btw!  8((()*/

Were you banned then?
Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe.  I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run.  If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.

Shame really, the blue forum has lost some great posters, unless you arse lick Tesko and pretend and except fake you don’t survive. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 07:14:41 PM
Yes Steph, I’d been a member for ten years and I exposed a fake doctored police document, Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered me their full support.

What do you mean by Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered you their full support? Do you mean about going to the police?

I missed all this I'm afraid so don't really know what you're referring to; other than what you've posted of course
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 06, 2018, 07:28:49 PM
What do you mean by Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered you their full support? Do you mean about going to the police?

I missed all this I'm afraid so don't really know what you're referring to; other than what you've posted of course
No Steph, they offered support in the way I was treat and the fact the document was a fake and doctored
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 06, 2018, 07:30:15 PM
What do you mean by Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered you their full support? Do you mean about going to the police?

I missed all this I'm afraid so don't really know what you're referring to; other than what you've posted of course

Can't speak for others but told Justice I was on his side, did some digging on the document and agreed with Justice that it wasn't genuine.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 06, 2018, 07:42:44 PM
Wish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.

I got called a paedo, threatened to come to my house, s..mbag and had my email address and IP address exposed all by the owner of a forum.  Why you may ask, because I exposed a fake doctored (backed up by mods) police document.

He also sent a curse to me and my family - what he didn't know was that I was wearing the reflective coat of Karma at the time so the curse went right back at him - silly auld sausage!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 08:04:48 PM
No Steph, they offered support in the way I was treat and the fact the document was a fake and doctored

That forum has run its course IMO, the last straw were the death threats to the surviving victims  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 08:08:53 PM
Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe.  I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run.  If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.

Shame really, the blue forum has lost some great posters, unless you arse lick Tesko and pretend and except fake you don’t survive.

The mods don't appear afraid to me, they appear to revel in all that goes on over there

Plus if they were scared of the owner, the solution would be to leave wouldn't it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 06, 2018, 08:41:03 PM
That forum has run its course IMO, the last straw were the death threats to the surviving victims  *&^^&

The Jeremy Bamber case has -at least at the moment- run it's course. It seems that everything which can be said of it has already been said. To hold members' interest all that's left is manipulating, what may have started out as basic truths, beyond recognition. There are some who suck it all up. Anything which suggests innocence -however far-fetched and unbelievable- is acceptable to them. Others, if they choose to expose the BS, run the risk of being cursed and condemned with foul expletives and forbidden from further interaction with him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 08:48:56 PM
The Jeremy Bamber case has -at least at the moment- run it's course. It seems that everything which can be said of it has already been said. To hold members' interest all that's left is manipulating, what may have started out as basic truths, beyond recognition. There are some who suck it all up. Anything which suggests innocence -however far-fetched and unbelievable- is acceptable to them. Others, if they choose to expose the BS, run the risk of being cursed and condemned with foul expletives and forbidden from further interaction with him.

"At least at the moment?" I disagree April.

Bamber has run out of options. His lies and guilt have been exposed. He has nowhere to go.



 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 09:03:12 PM
Wish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.

I got called a paedo, threatened to come to my house, s..mbag and had my email address and IP address exposed all by the owner of a forum.  Why you may ask, because I exposed a fake doctored (backed up by mods) police document.

Why don't you email Essex Chief Constable I'm sure he would be interested.

There were "threats to kill" made by a member recently aimed at the surviving victims, which I also think should be forwarded to the Chief Constable.

That forum and its owner think they are above the law, not unlike Jeremy Bamber. They are not!

Essex Chief Constables contact details https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-75257
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 06, 2018, 09:04:07 PM
"At least at the moment?" I disagree April.

Bamber has run out of options. His lies and guilt have been exposed. He has nowhere to go.


I added ".......at the moment" purely because I've no idea what MIGHT happen in the future, Steph. With the CT giving their blessing to sick and thoughtless schemes, a forum who upholds him as a cross between Little Lord Fauntleroy and the Archangel Gabriel, and a legal team that seems to be struggling to put together anything cohesive, who knows what tomorrow may hold?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 09:12:39 PM

I added ".......at the moment" purely because I've no idea what MIGHT happen in the future, Steph. With the CT giving their blessing to sick and thoughtless schemes, a forum who upholds him as a cross between Little Lord Fauntleroy and the Archangel Gabriel, and a legal team that seems to be struggling to put together anything cohesive, who knows what tomorrow may hold?

Yes I understand what you are saying but imo Bambers burnt all his bridges as have the CT and the blue forum

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 09:35:57 PM
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this.  ()678%

Mat maybe you or the person who got the fundraising event shut down should reach out to the Essex Chief Constable
https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-75257 re the "death threats?"

Someone needs to stand up for the rights of Bamber's surviving victims
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 09:41:54 PM
Don't forget to copy in David Gauke https://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/david-gauke/1529

and Bambers prison Governor David.Harding@hmps.gsi.gov.uk
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 09:54:15 PM
Mat maybe you or the person who got the fundraising event shut down should reach out to the Essex Chief Constable
https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-75257 re the "death threats?"

Someone needs to stand up for the rights of Bamber's surviving victims

I'm sure Mr Kavanagh will receive any correspondence re the above like a breath of fresh air especially after this BS https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986

and this https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986





"Police have accused a multiple murderer of "circumnavigating the formal process" of appeal by using the media and websites to fight his conviction.
Jeremy Bamber, 55, is serving a whole life term for killing five members of his family in Essex in 1985.
His supporters are calling for evidence to be disclosed and wrote to MPs who in turn have written to Essex Police.
A reply from the chief constable's office has outlined the reasons why the force will not reopen his case.
In the reply, Insp Matt Cornish, Staff Officer to Essex Police's chief constable, makes reference to findings by the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission in Bamber's case, which found no new evidence or proof the trial's fairness had been affected.
Insp Cornish said Bamber was "well aware of the legal processes that he should follow to seek a review of his convictions".
"His attempt at circumnavigating the formal process using the media and websites is ill-conceived," the letter continued. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802


I would suggest the police message from Essex police was not only to Jeremy Bamber but to the J B Campaign Ltd company and all others who were involved.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 10:35:07 PM
I'm sure Mr Kavanagh will receive any correspondence re the above like a breath of fresh air especially after this BS https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986

and this https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986





"Police have accused a multiple murderer of "circumnavigating the formal process" of appeal by using the media and websites to fight his conviction.
Jeremy Bamber, 55, is serving a whole life term for killing five members of his family in Essex in 1985.
His supporters are calling for evidence to be disclosed and wrote to MPs who in turn have written to Essex Police.
A reply from the chief constable's office has outlined the reasons why the force will not reopen his case.
In the reply, Insp Matt Cornish, Staff Officer to Essex Police's chief constable, makes reference to findings by the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission in Bamber's case, which found no new evidence or proof the trial's fairness had been affected.
Insp Cornish said Bamber was "well aware of the legal processes that he should follow to seek a review of his convictions".
"His attempt at circumnavigating the formal process using the media and websites is ill-conceived," the letter continued. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802


I would suggest the police message from Essex police was not only to Jeremy Bamber but to the J B Campaign Ltd company and all others who were involved.

It's down to Jeremy Bamber to reign in his supporters, after all without his public and private machinations there would be no campaign of his false claims of innocence.

IMO he is indirectly responsible for the "threats to kill" his surviving victims. It will be interesting to learn how Nigel is linked to Bamber and if they are in direct contact - or have been at one time or another.

This is something the police can investigate and get to the bottom of.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on May 06, 2018, 11:10:13 PM
Mat maybe you or the person who got the fundraising event shut down should reach out to the Essex Chief Constable
https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-75257 re the "death threats?"

Someone needs to stand up for the rights of Bamber's surviving victims

I will look into it this week, I think there is a chance that the press may be interested in it and the bonus that it is on a forum paid for by someone who works with Bambers defence team and has made questionable comments about the case in the past will further their interest. There's a lot to put together to submit it to the press to get their interest.

I agree with standing up for the Bamber relatives as they are victims too.

I do think that Essex police would be interested in the death threats but not the chief, emailing him (Or his secetary I guess) and asking them who best to email/phone about such threats would be the way to go with that.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 11:17:45 PM
I agree with standing up for the Bamber relatives as they are victims too.

I do think that Essex police would be interested in the death threats but not the chief, emailing him (Or his secetary I guess) and asking them who best to email/phone about such threats would be the way to go with that.

Julie Mugford was also threatened.

I've already drafted an email just need screen shots of the death threats, then I'm ready to send it.



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 06, 2018, 11:38:24 PM
I will look into it this week, I think there is a chance that the press may be interested in it and the bonus that it is on a forum paid for by someone who works with Bambers defence team and has made questionable comments about the case in the past will further their interest. There's a lot to put together to submit it to the press to get their interest.

I agree with standing up for the Bamber relatives as they are victims too.

I do think that Essex police would be interested in the death threats but not the chief, emailing him (Or his secetary I guess) and asking them who best to email/phone about such threats would be the way to go with that.

Maybe the first point of interest would be Nigel's death threats (and insults) to the existing family, then pull in Mike, who's a one-man cross between Walter Mitty, The League of Gentlemen and Nightmare Neighbour Next Door, then post some of Gladys' ravings (especially Gav!!), and round it off with a wander down "Erinaceous Fairy Tale" lane. If anyone out there still remembers Bamber, they deserve to know the calibre of his supporters.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 11:40:53 PM
I will look into it this week, I think there is a chance that the press may be interested in it and the bonus that it is on a forum paid for by someone who works with Bambers defence team and has made questionable comments about the case in the past will further their interest. There's a lot to put together to submit it to the press to get their interest.

I agree with standing up for the Bamber relatives as they are victims too.

I do think that Essex police would be interested in the death threats but not the chief, emailing him (Or his secetary I guess) and asking them who best to email/phone about such threats would be the way to go with that.

I'd have thought the press would be interested in the death threats, especially with the knowledge the owner of the forum is himself a convicted criminal.

The publisher of the death threats is of course a supporter of Bamber. That in itself would be enough IMO.

Plus, Bamber made threats to kill his family prior to the actual murders. It all links in.

The police are cracking down on this type of social media behaviour and have made examples of many individuals.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2018, 11:44:21 PM
Maybe the first point of interest would be Nigel's death threats (and insults) to the existing family, then pull in Mike, who's a one-man cross between Walter Mitty, The League of Gentlemen and Nightmare Neighbour Next Door, then post some of Gladys' ravings (especially Gav!!), and round it off with a wander down "Erinaceous Fairy Tale" lane. If anyone out there still remembers Bamber, they deserve to know the calibre of his supporters.

This won't have been forgotten http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

And there's this:

"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 07, 2018, 12:08:38 AM
This won't have been forgotten http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

And there's this:

"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0

Isn't it odd that everything and everyone that Bamber is associated with either is, or becomes, deeply dodgy? People (like MWT) start with good intentions, then back off like scalded cats. When they realise that Bamber is as guilty as surely as the swallows come back in the spring.

Thank goodness that Bamber will die in prison. He stole the lives of two lovely boys who were full of hope and promise. No amount of misguided bleatings by a fat old blonde bird who should know better  will negate that. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 12:22:42 AM
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:

causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.


"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests.  He demanded I send him £4,000.  Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials.  He told me to mind my own business and just pay up.  He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan.  He was very threatening and abusive.  When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim."  I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call.  For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him.  He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.  He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay.  I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them".   That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.  I now realise I was there purely for the money.  I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him.  I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend.  This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy.  I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have?  Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside.  I feel desperately sorry for him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2018, 09:04:00 AM
This won't have been forgotten http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

And there's this:

"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0


Don't forget he also claims to know where Madeleine Macann is buried.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 07, 2018, 09:16:33 AM
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:

causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.


"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests.  He demanded I send him £4,000.  Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials.  He told me to mind my own business and just pay up.  He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan.  He was very threatening and abusive.  When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim."  I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call.  For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him.  He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks.  He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay.  I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them".   That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him.  I now realise I was there purely for the money.  I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him.  I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend.  This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy.  I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have?  Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside.  I feel desperately sorry for him.


These demands were made to me before it became a limited company so it doesn’t apply. It was just a group of people running it from the IT company where they worked. Shortly after that Mark Cropper a key player quickly left the CT and completely disassociated himself from them.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 07, 2018, 09:26:17 AM

Don't forget he also claims to know where Madeleine Macann is buried.

And Keith Bennett. AND his Border Collie is an oncologist.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 09:54:41 AM

These demands were made to me before it became a limited company so it doesn’t apply. It was just a group of people running it from the IT company where they worked. Shortly after that Mark Cropper a key player quickly left the CT and completely disassociated himself from them.

Yes, I'm aware of that Daisy.

I'm also aware that the Campaign Team act on the strict instructions of Jeremy Bamber, they are all under his control, as can be evidence by the following:


"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.

I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.

I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.

My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.

Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011 https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 11:00:08 AM

These demands were made to me before it became a limited company so it doesn’t apply. It was just a group of people running it from the IT company where they worked. Shortly after that Mark Cropper a key player quickly left the CT and completely disassociated himself from them.

"These demands" show the true character of Jeremy Bamber, that was my point.

Amazing how many people have completely dissociated themselves from him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 11:11:22 AM
Yes, I'm aware of that Daisy.

I'm also aware that the Campaign Team act on the strict instructions of Jeremy Bamber, they are all under his control, as can be evidence by the following:


"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.

I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.

I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.

My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.

Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011 https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html

Bamber makes it clear he is the puppet master "Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned."
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 11:31:47 AM

These demands were made to me before it became a limited company so it doesn’t apply. It was just a group of people running it from the IT company where they worked. Shortly after that Mark Cropper a key player quickly left the CT and completely disassociated himself from them.

People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« on: April 07, 2012, 11:43:AM »

Jackiepreece states:
"Since the documentary by Mark Williams-Thomas there seems to have been some sort of smear campaign to discredit the documentary. Comments from Jeremy Bamber campaigners has ranged from the documentary being vile to the documentary changed their mind from innocent to guilty.
I have posted below one of those comments and I have also posted details that show Sunil Chandrum has close connections to the 'Official Jeremy Bamber Campaign'
Mark Cropper for one actually runs the campaign and Maria Perez has posted a testimonial for Jeremy
The thing I cannot get my head around is why would someone do something so harmful to Jeremy
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77236.html#msg77236

@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why do you bother getting up in the morning only to spit out venom all day at other people?
06.01.2012

@jackiepreece Please I appeal to your better side to stop this anger at others and be a better person unite with all those who love Jeremy

Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
05/01/2012 08:06
@jackiepreece you cause trouble for Jeremy Bamber and @simonmckay by slagging both of them off don't lie Jackie

@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why dont you shut your filthy mouth Jackie everyone knows you talk about @simonmckay like he's your best friend but insult him
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 11:43:43 AM
11:33 am, 9th September 2010
Priti Patel:
"The Leader of the House might be aware of the immense distress caused to the family of the victims of the Jeremy Bamber murders by the recent media interview he gave, which was allowed by the Ministry of Justice. May we have a debate in Government time on the impact of prisoners and mass murderers such as Bamber, who are serving whole-life tariffs and life imprisonment, being granted access to the media, so that victims of such crimes can be protected?

Mark Cropper pops up here https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2010-09-09b.473.6#c26462
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 11:51:32 AM
People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« on: April 07, 2012, 11:43:AM »

Jackiepreece states:
"Since the documentary by Mark Williams-Thomas there seems to have been some sort of smear campaign to discredit the documentary. Comments from Jeremy Bamber campaigners has ranged from the documentary being vile to the documentary changed their mind from innocent to guilty.
I have posted below one of those comments and I have also posted details that show Sunil Chandrum has close connections to the 'Official Jeremy Bamber Campaign'
Mark Cropper for one actually runs the campaign and Maria Perez has posted a testimonial for Jeremy
The thing I cannot get my head around is why would someone do something so harmful to Jeremy
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77236.html#msg77236

@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why do you bother getting up in the morning only to spit out venom all day at other people?
06.01.2012

@jackiepreece Please I appeal to your better side to stop this anger at others and be a better person unite with all those who love Jeremy

Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
05/01/2012 08:06
@jackiepreece you cause trouble for Jeremy Bamber and @simonmckay by slagging both of them off don't lie Jackie

@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why dont you shut your filthy mouth Jackie everyone knows you talk about @simonmckay like he's your best friend but insult him

What Jackiepreece can't get her head around is the fact she's been used by Jeremy Bamber and that he's guilty as sin.

She's self consumed and her bitter hatred and judgement of others suggests her emotional growth was stunted early on in life, not dissimilar to Bambers
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 12:41:36 PM
People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« on: April 07, 2012, 11:43:AM »

Jackiepreece states:
"Since the documentary by Mark Williams-Thomas there seems to have been some sort of smear campaign to discredit the documentary. Comments from Jeremy Bamber campaigners has ranged from the documentary being vile to the documentary changed their mind from innocent to guilty.
I have posted below one of those comments and I have also posted details that show Sunil Chandrum has close connections to the 'Official Jeremy Bamber Campaign'
Mark Cropper for one actually runs the campaign and Maria Perez has posted a testimonial for Jeremy
The thing I cannot get my head around is why would someone do something so harmful to Jeremy
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77236.html#msg77236

@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why do you bother getting up in the morning only to spit out venom all day at other people?
06.01.2012

@jackiepreece Please I appeal to your better side to stop this anger at others and be a better person unite with all those who love Jeremy

Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
05/01/2012 08:06
@jackiepreece you cause trouble for Jeremy Bamber and @simonmckay by slagging both of them off don't lie Jackie

@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why dont you shut your filthy mouth Jackie everyone knows you talk about @simonmckay like he's your best friend but insult him

And it ALL stemmed from Jeremy Bamber because it showed him in a poor light!

Will be interesting to watch the fallout and smear campaign after the airing of this http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9315.msg460279#msg460279

Presuming of course the J B Campaign Ltd company and all those associated with Bamber don't bail out beforehand

Jeremy Bamber is playing games with people's lives!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 07, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
That forum has run its course IMO, the last straw were the death threats to the surviving victims  *&^^&

The forum is similar to how it was when I joined - 90% pro Bamber, with Mike as the main poster. Lookout, Roch & Nugs are still there. Only two active moderators remain.

Several people have changed stance to guilty in that time & hardly post. David joined & was a hardcore guilter, before attempting a quiet stance change to hardcore supporter. Nigel joined as an instant hardcore supporter but has never said why.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 07, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006

Here is Nigel's introduction.

Since threatening to kill Julie & the relatives, he now just posts on Mike's threads or his own Stephen Kavanagh/countdown threads. Which isn't saying why he believes Bamber is innocent. Although he did suggest a vague scenario where Sheila had an accomplice
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 03:34:29 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006

Here is Nigel's introduction.

Since threatening to kill Julie & the relatives, he now just posts on Mike's threads or his own Stephen Kavanagh/countdown threads. Which isn't saying why he believes Bamber is innocent. Although he did suggest a vague scenario where Sheila had an accomplice

Do you have screen shots of the threats Adam? Can you PM me if you do. Cheers
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 07:09:00 PM
The forum is similar to how it was when I joined - 90% pro Bamber, with Mike as the main poster. Lookout, Roch & Nugs are still there. Only two active moderators remain.

Several people have changed stance to guilty in that time & hardly post. David joined & was a hardcore guilter, before attempting a quiet stance change to hardcore supporter. Nigel joined as an instant hardcore supporter but has never said why.

Nigel is convicted fraudster Michael Teskowski
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 07:35:32 PM
Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe.  I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run.  If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.

Shame really, the blue forum has lost some great posters, unless you arse lick Tesko and pretend and except fake you don’t survive.

Well his deaths threats will most probably back fire on him - people like Mike Tesco think they are above the law and can say and do as they please
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 07:38:09 PM
Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe.  I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run.  If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.

Shame really, the blue forum has lost some great posters, unless you arse lick Tesko and pretend and except fake you don’t survive.

Tesco's a coward
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 07, 2018, 08:13:48 PM
Do you have screen shots of the threats Adam? Can you PM me if you do. Cheers

I don't. The moderators deleted them.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 08:24:04 PM
I don't. The moderators deleted them.

Shame. I have one but can't find the other two
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2018, 10:25:33 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006

Here is Nigel's introduction.

Since threatening to kill Julie & the relatives, he now just posts on Mike's threads or his own Stephen Kavanagh/countdown threads. Which isn't saying why he believes Bamber is innocent. Although he did suggest a vague scenario where Sheila had an accomplice

"Nige" stated "JEREMY's release is EMINENT, I challenge anyone to disagree with that.  @)(++(*

Has anyone read Tesco's sisters book? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grass-Then-There-Were-Trees/dp/1622122461

Mike states:
"For those of you who think that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, please bear in mind, that I have personally been the victim of unnecessary and unprovoked police brutality (16th June 1987), and I know precisely what the police and state controlled authority's can and do get up to...
The victim in this type of case, is up against it...
Police officers lie, and everyone else in the procedure believes everything that these violent thugs say happened,did happen - here are photographs taken by my own doctor after I was brutally assaulted at the time of my arrest, and my subsequent detention on the 16th June 1987:-
Please, don't even try to suggest that what the police did to me (June 1987) was justified, nor try to say that what these police bullies did to my nephew (27th January, 2014), was legal, or justified...
Despite some 27 years elapsing between both events, it seems that police brutality is still rife, and the state organisations which profess to police such matters, is still as corrupt as ever...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 09:37:PM by mike Tesko

"My nephew was brutally attacked by as many as 6 detention officers, at Mansfield police station custody office, on the 27th January, 2014, at a time he was not under arrest, he had already signed himself out of custody before they tried to 'KICK HIM IN THE BOLLOCKS', bring him down to the ground, handcuff him, and then that 'b........' FLINT engaged his double action knee attack, into my nephews chest cavity...
This gang of 'BRUTAL OFFICERS' , attacked my nephew when he was no longer in police custody...
I personally will not rest until each member of this gang are prosecuted for what they did, it really was / is an awful case of police officers losing control, and behaving unlawfully - I will do everything I can, to try and get 'JUSTICE FOR JOSEPH', and I will not rest until the criminal FLINT is convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment that he personally deserves. He is a monster, and no member of the public is safe in his custody, or presence...
Bring back 'hanging by the neck', for these evil, corrupted, b......s...

"Currently in Kilgetty, S. Wales, I will provide what you have asked for  once ai return home to Barnsley later on tonight... http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6642.0.html

Reply Posted by mike tesko on Sunday February 14 2016 at 23:11
"The day of reckoning is almost upon us - you will all get your cum-uppence, as soon as night follows day. Anybody can attack anybody with a brick and baseball bats, but me I will settle for my day in court testifying against the lot of you evil low life s..mbags https://www.wearebarnsley.com/news/article/3875/mum-urges-action-on-previously-quiet-cul-de-sac

Never Mike Teskowski's fault always blames everyone else. Didn't he get done for assault. Yet in the comments section of the article, not unlike on his forum, he plays the victim
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 08, 2018, 06:31:54 AM
"Nige" stated "JEREMY's release is EMINENT, I challenge anyone to disagree with that.  @)(++(*

Has anyone read Tesco's sisters book? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grass-Then-There-Were-Trees/dp/1622122461

Mike states:
"For those of you who think that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, please bear in mind, that I have personally been the victim of unnecessary and unprovoked police brutality (16th June 1987), and I know precisely what the police and state controlled authority's can and do get up to...
The victim in this type of case, is up against it...
Police officers lie, and everyone else in the procedure believes everything that these violent thugs say happened,did happen - here are photographs taken by my own doctor after I was brutally assaulted at the time of my arrest, and my subsequent detention on the 16th June 1987:-
Please, don't even try to suggest that what the police did to me (June 1987) was justified, nor try to say that what these police bullies did to my nephew (27th January, 2014), was legal, or justified...
Despite some 27 years elapsing between both events, it seems that police brutality is still rife, and the state organisations which profess to police such matters, is still as corrupt as ever...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 09:37:PM by mike Tesko

"My nephew was brutally attacked by as many as 6 detention officers, at Mansfield police station custody office, on the 27th January, 2014, at a time he was not under arrest, he had already signed himself out of custody before they tried to 'KICK HIM IN THE BOLLOCKS', bring him down to the ground, handcuff him, and then that 'b........' FLINT engaged his double action knee attack, into my nephews chest cavity...
This gang of 'BRUTAL OFFICERS' , attacked my nephew when he was no longer in police custody...
I personally will not rest until each member of this gang are prosecuted for what they did, it really was / is an awful case of police officers losing control, and behaving unlawfully - I will do everything I can, to try and get 'JUSTICE FOR JOSEPH', and I will not rest until the criminal FLINT is convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment that he personally deserves. He is a monster, and no member of the public is safe in his custody, or presence...
Bring back 'hanging by the neck', for these evil, corrupted, b......s...

"Currently in Kilgetty, S. Wales, I will provide what you have asked for  once ai return home to Barnsley later on tonight... http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6642.0.html

Reply Posted by mike tesko on Sunday February 14 2016 at 23:11
"The day of reckoning is almost upon us - you will all get your cum-uppence, as soon as night follows day. Anybody can attack anybody with a brick and baseball bats, but me I will settle for my day in court testifying against the lot of you evil low life s..mbags https://www.wearebarnsley.com/news/article/3875/mum-urges-action-on-previously-quiet-cul-de-sac

Never Mike Teskowski's fault always blames everyone else. Didn't he get done for assault. Yet in the comments section of the article, not unlike on his forum, he plays the victim
Looks like he had his day in court after all  then?  If it’s the same Tesko under the Barnsley section?  April 2016

https://www.southyorkshiretimes.co.uk/news/crime/court-round-up-latest-convictions-at-doncaster-barnsley-sheffield-and-rotherham-magistrates-courts-1-7828859
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 08:45:02 AM
Looks like he had his day in court after all  then?  If it’s the same Tesko under the Barnsley section?  April 2016

https://www.southyorkshiretimes.co.uk/news/crime/court-round-up-latest-convictions-at-doncaster-barnsley-sheffield-and-rotherham-magistrates-courts-1-7828859

That's him justice and if memory serves me correct he moaned and groaned about it on blue; playing the victim, seeking revenge, the usual nonsense he comes out with

Did you see the video of him hiding in the bushes outside the court? Can find it. But did find this..

Think this is his Nigel impersonation https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIs2uC2tVk

He says about Bamber: "I think JEREMY is now well known for his unfortunate 'Prince Phillip' quips   @)(++(*

Here's Bamber brazenly lying https://www.theguardian.com/uk/audio/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-audio

No "Prince Philip quips" there, just the usual BS. Caught in the lie.  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 09:46:32 AM
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this.  ()678%

Do you recall this Mat?

Mr Gee posted:
"This Harrisonson article also speaks about Bamber being at the back of all these "death threats" and has power from within prison to influence his "disciples". Sorry but U must really laugh at this as this man claims to have been in contact with Bamber for about 3 years. If that is true then he will know that Bamber is a category "A" prisoner and that everything he does, every visitor, every phone call and every letter is vetted and that he cannot possibly run a mafia type gang fron inside.
I'm afraid this tells me much more about Robertson than it does about Bamber. It tells me that he certainly has a vivid imagination. I also challenge him to publish the actual letter for us all to see and examine for ourselves.
This man far from being in danger himself has in fact put people's lives and careers in danger. May I also remind members here that he sent Jackie a pm asking her to contact him by email and that he tells her to "keep up the good work for Bamber".
Now you may or may not believe me? That is up to every individual. I have no control over that. But please keep in mind that death threats are a criminal offence and of this letter is real then he should go to the police about it. I stongly encourage him to do so. That way this matter can be investigated by the proper authorities so that lies and accusations may not be flying around hurting innocent people. I implore everyone to take into consideration an old saying, "A lie is half way round the world before truth has even started out".
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6023.msg268236.html?PHPSESSID=lfkbt91ur3g878hkksrg8ruc07#msg268236

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524489/Mass-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-s-threat-to-Scots-author-Harrison

Many of us witnessed the death threats made by "Nigel" who claimed:

"I believe 100% that Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
In fact I would 'put my life on it'
I'm here to help clear his name, on a mission, if I can help in anyway please contact me
.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006

It's a fallacy that all mail in and out of the Prison is "vetted" just as it's a fallacy that all telephone calls are listened to/screened. They should be but the fact is there aren't the staff to do this.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 10:20:58 AM
Do you recall this Mat?

Mr Gee posted:
"This Harrisonson article also speaks about Bamber being at the back of all these "death threats" and has power from within prison to influence his "disciples". Sorry but U must really laugh at this as this man claims to have been in contact with Bamber for about 3 years. If that is true then he will know that Bamber is a category "A" prisoner and that everything he does, every visitor, every phone call and every letter is vetted and that he cannot possibly run a mafia type gang fron inside.
I'm afraid this tells me much more about Robertson than it does about Bamber. It tells me that he certainly has a vivid imagination. I also challenge him to publish the actual letter for us all to see and examine for ourselves.
This man far from being in danger himself has in fact put people's lives and careers in danger. May I also remind members here that he sent Jackie a pm asking her to contact him by email and that he tells her to "keep up the good work for Bamber".
Now you may or may not believe me? That is up to every individual. I have no control over that. But please keep in mind that death threats are a criminal offence and of this letter is real then he should go to the police about it. I stongly encourage him to do so. That way this matter can be investigated by the proper authorities so that lies and accusations may not be flying around hurting innocent people. I implore everyone to take into consideration an old saying, "A lie is half way round the world before truth has even started out".
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6023.msg268236.html?PHPSESSID=lfkbt91ur3g878hkksrg8ruc07#msg268236

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524489/Mass-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-s-threat-to-Scots-author-Harrison

Many of us witnessed the death threats made by "Nigel" who claimed:

"I believe 100% that Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
In fact I would 'put my life on it'
I'm here to help clear his name, on a mission, if I can help in anyway please contact me
.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006

It's a fallacy that all mail in and out of the Prison is "vetted" just as it's a fallacy that all telephone calls are listened to/screened. They should be but the fact is there aren't the staff to do this.

I defy anyone who claims Bamber doesn't wield power and control over his "groupies"

To suggest you'd "put your life on it" is IMO pretty radical.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 10:51:22 AM
I don't. The moderators deleted them.

Not to worry Adam, I've found them!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 08, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
That's him justice and if memory serves me correct he moaned and groaned about it on blue; playing the victim, seeking revenge, the usual nonsense he comes out with

Did you see the video of him hiding in the bushes outside the court? Can find it. But did find this..

Think this is his Nigel impersonation https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIs2uC2tVk

He says about Bamber: "I think JEREMY is now well known for his unfortunate 'Prince Phillip' quips   @)(++(*

Here's Bamber brazenly lying https://www.theguardian.com/uk/audio/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-audio

No "Prince Philip quips" there, just the usual BS. Caught in the lie.  *&^^&


I'll hazard a guess that the "Prince Philip quips" is a none too subtle allusion to what has been claimed was Jeremy's paternity?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 11:38:54 AM

I'll hazard a guess that the "Prince Philip quips" is a none too subtle allusion to what has been claimed was Jeremy's paternity?

I thought the same April  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 11:43:23 AM
I defy anyone who claims Bamber doesn't wield power and control over his "groupies"

To suggest you'd "put your life on it" is IMO pretty radical.

Give it up already Mike. We know the 2 mods can't ban you "Nigel" permanently from your own forum  *&^^&


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Alice on May 08, 2018, 12:15:21 PM
Well this group has lead me to look at the blue forum and I have to say what a sad and deluded bunch of old men with their tin foil hats and bile against the police. Spending time on there is minutes out of your life you cant have back. So bad its laughable.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 08, 2018, 12:18:29 PM
Not to worry Adam, I've found them!
If ever you want to go in and get something just join again, your IP address can and does change, might not from home, but from your phone and other networks it does.    $*6% $*6%
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 08, 2018, 02:13:29 PM
David is quieter on the Blue forum.

He was more of a Bamber defender whenever a guilter posted.  Focusing on guilters rather than their posts, with his images, posters, gish gash' posts or quoting 5 year posts from former supporters.

However guilters are not posting & David is wisely keeping his distance from Mike, Nigel, Roch & Nugs.

 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 03:34:26 PM
David is quieter on the Blue forum.

He was more of a Bamber defender whenever a guilter posted.  Focusing on guilters rather than their posts, with his images, posters, gish gash' posts or quoting 5 year posts from former supporters.

However guilters are not posting & David is wisely keeping his distance from Mike, Nigel, Roch & Nugs.

"Nige" joins the blue forum stating he was privately educated in Harrow.  *&^^&

He goes on to start a thread entitled "Oh Steph I am so scared!." He states, "Please do not be disrespectful to David. Shall we call a truce?" And "Is Stephanie on a 'retainer"

In response to Buddy he states: "I do not need to be cautious in my posts at all P5FN OFF."

And " MUGFORD is in the SH&* if she steps foot on UK soil."

Then Nigel posts this on 14th April 2018:

"Neville Bamber who was the Chairman of the Witham Magistrates Bench, would never have allowed Anthony Pargeter to take the weapons, accessories, or ammunitions away from the scene, where they were licensed to be kept, under any circumstances..."
MIKE TESKO


Other than Trudi Benjamin who has claimed Mike Tesco is her "hero" who has ever quoted this man?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 08, 2018, 04:36:45 PM
Well this group has lead me to look at the blue forum and I have to say what a sad and deluded bunch of old men with their tin foil hats and bile against the police. Spending time on there is minutes out of your life you cant have back. So bad its laughable.
You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser.  All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum.   &^^&*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 08, 2018, 04:52:57 PM
You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser.  All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum.   &^^&*


 @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Alice on May 08, 2018, 05:14:18 PM
You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser.  All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum.   &^^&*
Ah see what you did there. More intelligent life forms on here it seems 8(0(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 08, 2018, 05:25:16 PM
You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser.  All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum.   &^^&*

But Justice, I'm imagine you must be astounded at the sort of insight that allows someone to claim full knowledge of someone's character, what was the dynamic between them and their parents, how they acted at school, how they presented themselves to others, and how they conducted their love life.....................and all without having ever met them OR anyone associated with them! Amazing! Truly amazing!!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2018, 08:42:55 PM
Do you recall this Mat?

Mr Gee posted:
"This Harrisonson article also speaks about Bamber being at the back of all these "death threats" and has power from within prison to influence his "disciples". Sorry but U must really laugh at this as this man claims to have been in contact with Bamber for about 3 years. If that is true then he will know that Bamber is a category "A" prisoner and that everything he does, every visitor, every phone call and every letter is vetted and that he cannot possibly run a mafia type gang fron inside.
I'm afraid this tells me much more about Robertson than it does about Bamber. It tells me that he certainly has a vivid imagination. I also challenge him to publish the actual letter for us all to see and examine for ourselves.
This man far from being in danger himself has in fact put people's lives and careers in danger. May I also remind members here that he sent Jackie a pm asking her to contact him by email and that he tells her to "keep up the good work for Bamber".
Now you may or may not believe me? That is up to every individual. I have no control over that. But please keep in mind that death threats are a criminal offence and of this letter is real then he should go to the police about it. I stongly encourage him to do so. That way this matter can be investigated by the proper authorities so that lies and accusations may not be flying around hurting innocent people. I implore everyone to take into consideration an old saying, "A lie is half way round the world before truth has even started out".
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6023.msg268236.html?PHPSESSID=lfkbt91ur3g878hkksrg8ruc07#msg268236

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524489/Mass-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-s-threat-to-Scots-author-Harrison

Many of us witnessed the death threats made by "Nigel" who claimed:

"I believe 100% that Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
In fact I would 'put my life on it'
I'm here to help clear his name, on a mission, if I can help in anyway please contact me
.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006

It's a fallacy that all mail in and out of the Prison is "vetted" just as it's a fallacy that all telephone calls are listened to/screened. They should be but the fact is there aren't the staff to do this.

2014
Mr Gee stated: "Unfortunately Bamber hasn't a very good record in keeping legal teams.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5856.msg260935.html#msg260935
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on May 08, 2018, 10:35:59 PM
But Justice, I'm imagine you must be astounded at the sort of insight that allows someone to claim full knowledge of someone's character, what was the dynamic between them and their parents, how they acted at school, how they presented themselves to others, and how they conducted their love life.....................and all without having ever met them OR anyone associated with them! Amazing! Truly amazing!!!

Lookout is a real nasty piece of work, and extremely dishonest, how many times has she posted something and then denied it? She's also proven herself to be racist and homophobic, just a spewer of negativity and hate - but it's all okay because she hides behind a username.

I think you were more than fair and balanced with her with some of the little stunts she attempted to pull on you and Caroline during your time together (She once even accused Caroline of trying to hack her email which is what ModMaggie once tried to pull on me.)

You had the patience of a saint.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 09, 2018, 08:11:29 AM
Lookout is a real nasty piece of work, and extremely dishonest, how many times has she posted something and then denied it? She's also proven herself to be racist and homophobic, just a spewer of negativity and hate - but it's all okay because she hides behind a username.

I think you were more than fair and balanced with her with some of the little stunts she attempted to pull on you and Caroline during your time together (She once even accused Caroline of trying to hack her email which is what ModMaggie once tried to pull on me.)

You had the patience of a saint.

And what sort of person digs up someone's ruined childhood, then gloats about it?


 *&^^&

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 09, 2018, 09:07:34 AM
Lookout is a real nasty piece of work, and extremely dishonest, how many times has she posted something and then denied it? She's also proven herself to be racist and homophobic, just a spewer of negativity and hate - but it's all okay because she hides behind a username.

I think you were more than fair and balanced with her with some of the little stunts she attempted to pull on you and Caroline during your time together (She once even accused Caroline of trying to hack her email which is what ModMaggie once tried to pull on me.)

You had the patience of a saint.


Aww! Thank-you, Mat xx  Sadly, I always seemed to bring out the worst in her, didn't I. I've never quite rid myself of the belief that if we behave well to others, they'll return it. Unfortunately there will always be those who see it a weakness and kick you in the teeth at the first opportunity. Contrary to her stringent belief, I have NEVER lied -unless the act of changing one's mind can be called lying?- where I've felt able, without breaking confidence, I've shared what's been told me by the numerous -sadly now in sharp decline- Bamber friends who surround me. Because they knew, and were personally involved with those they were speaking about, it was based on their experience. I REFUSE to believe these thoroughly decent people are all part of 'La Grande Conspiracy".
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 09, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
And what sort of person digs up someone's ruined childhood, then gloats about it?


 *&^^&


Anyone who wants to hide that their own childhood had been less than idyllic.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 09, 2018, 09:23:33 AM

Anyone who wants to hide that their own childhood had been less than idyllic.
Phew glad I’m out, didn’t realise it was that bad, when she used to be attacked I would pm her, feeling sorry for her and wanted to help her, strange thing was, when Tesco attacked me Nothing in return,   Me and Sami both sent her pms feeling sorry for her, I felt so let down when I left.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 09:32:56 AM
IMO the J B Campaign Ltd are in breach of the following;

of causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way

I cannot comment on their financial affairs until such time as they submit their accounts with I believe are due in the next couple of months?

The insolvency service will in no doubt take a dim view of company director Trudi Benjamin's "graveside rant"


"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave.
Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice.
He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html


The same Trudi Benjamin who's "forum crush" is Jackiepreece and who's "hero" is Muggy Mike Tesco and who refers to Julie Mugford as "fugly Muggly"  *&^^&

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456652#msg456652

The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544

According to Steve_UK - "Apparently the crowdfunding has raised £12000"
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8796.msg436639.html#msg436639

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 09:41:41 AM
Trudi Benjamin Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
·
May 7
12 compelling reasons Sheila killed the family and not her brother #JeremyBamber who has been told he will spend the rest of his life in prison... curtains do not open and close on their own! 999 call made from the farmhouse while police still outside!
(link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/-sheila) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/-sheila
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68

 *&^^&


Pinned Tweet
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
Find out about the tragedy at #WhiteHouseFarm on the 7th August 1985 & how & why #JeremyBamber's family & ex-girlfriend turned against him... a woman scorned, money & inheritance...
This is the Jeremy Bamber Campaign Official Website: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/) jeremy-bamber.co.uk  https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/993426118517587969

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 09, 2018, 10:10:08 AM
'A woman scorned, money, inheritance, 999 calls inside WHF, moving curtains'.

Bamber was unlucky.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 11:39:12 AM
"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave. Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice. He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

"He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt"

Has Trudi Benjamin conceded that Jeremy Bamber convinced (coerced) her to do what she did re the "graveside rant?"
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 09, 2018, 12:10:29 PM
"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave. Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice. He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html

"He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt"

Has Trudi Benjamin conceded that Jeremy Bamber convinced (coerced) her to do what she did re the "graveside rant?"

With the best will in the world, I just don't see how ANYNONE could conceive this as a good idea. IF Bamber were ever exonerated, then fine, vistit the grave privately but to enter into his ghoulish charade, using the dead victims as promotioal exercise just shows A. that he is devoid of understanding solical norms and B. that he is ill advised by the CT - who (with such stupid stunts - no pun intended!) are making him look guiltier than ever!

It's no wonder that they disabled the comments on Youtube!

By the way, anyone looking for a good laugh should read the comments from those who rated 1 or 2 stars for CAL's book on Amazon! They're all there ...... campaigning and dredging up myth and fantasy - opportunits!  @)(++(* @)(++(*  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Murders-White-House-Farm-investigation-ebook/product-reviews/B00UXKJ0SA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 09, 2018, 12:30:44 PM
With the best will in the world, I just don't see how ANYNONE could conceive this as a good idea. IF Bamber were ever exonerated, then fine, vistit the grave privately but to enter into his ghoulish charade, using the dead victims as promotioal exercise just shows A. that he is devoid of understanding solical norms and B. that he is ill advised by the CT - who (with such stupid stunts - no pun intended!) are making him look guiltier than ever!

It's no wonder that they disabled the comments on Youtube!

Totally agree. 

If I remember correctly it was timed to coincide with mother's day 2016 at which time JB had been behind bars for some 30 plus years.  It rather begs the question why then?  Why not before and since?  Personally I think it was something the CT engineered in some misguided belief that it would generate positive press.  As if  %77*  You would hope Matt and Marty might rein in the peri/post menopausal hormonally challenged women but it seems not.  The lot of them are quite mad imo. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 09, 2018, 12:58:39 PM
With the best will in the world, I just don't see how ANYNONE could conceive this as a good idea. IF Bamber were ever exonerated, then fine, vistit the grave privately but to enter into his ghoulish charade, using the dead victims as promotioal exercise just shows A. that he is devoid of understanding solical norms and B. that he is ill advised by the CT - who (with such stupid stunts - no pun intended!) are making him look guiltier than ever!

It's no wonder that they disabled the comments on Youtube!

By the way, anyone looking for a good laugh should read the comments from those who rated 1 or 2 stars for CAL's book on Amazon! They're all there ...... campaigning and dredging up myth and fantasy - opportunits!  @)(++(* @)(++(*  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Murders-White-House-Farm-investigation-ebook/product-reviews/B00UXKJ0SA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar


Mmm. Out in force, aren't they?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 09, 2018, 01:12:55 PM

Mmm. Out in force, aren't they?

The object was JUST to review the book  @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 09, 2018, 01:27:48 PM
The object was JUST to review the book  @)(++(* @)(++(*


 Duhhhh! The illiterate idiots probably thought the object was to REVILE the book
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 09, 2018, 01:50:39 PM

 Duhhhh! The illiterate idiots probably thought the object was to REVILE the book

Any opportunity to campaign! The book was only released on July 30th 2015 and someone reviewed it on that very day. They obviously studied it well. Most of these  negative reviews were written witin months of the release date which means they couldn't wait to slag it off. Altogether everyone!  8@??)(
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 09, 2018, 02:11:55 PM
Phew glad I’m out, didn’t realise it was that bad, when she used to be attacked I would pm her, feeling sorry for her and wanted to help her, strange thing was, when Tesco attacked me Nothing in return,   Me and Sami both sent her pms feeling sorry for her, I felt so let down when I left.

Nobody is so disliked without reason, Justice.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 09, 2018, 04:26:34 PM
Any opportunity to campaign! The book was only released on July 30th 2015 and someone reviewed it on that very day. They obviously studied it well. Most of these  negative reviews were written witin months of the release date which means they couldn't wait to slag it off. Altogether everyone!  8@??)(
Mmm reminds me of a forum I was on.  What amazed me, one minute they thought Bamber was guilty, the next you would get verbal with a passion-about how innocent he was  *%87
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Alice on May 09, 2018, 05:39:32 PM
Where are these book reviews? I can only find a few on Good Reads all moaning about how much detail there is!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 09, 2018, 05:54:28 PM
Where are these book reviews? I can only find a few on Good Reads all moaning about how much detail there is!
On Amazon Alice
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 06:18:17 PM
With the best will in the world, I just don't see how ANYNONE could conceive this as a good idea. IF Bamber were ever exonerated, then fine, vistit the grave privately but to enter into his ghoulish charade, using the dead victims as promotioal exercise just shows A. that he is devoid of understanding solical norms and B. that he is ill advised by the CT - who (with such stupid stunts - no pun intended!) are making him look guiltier than ever!

It's no wonder that they disabled the comments on Youtube!

By the way, anyone looking for a good laugh should read the comments from those who rated 1 or 2 stars for CAL's book on Amazon! They're all there ...... campaigning and dredging up myth and fantasy - opportunits!  @)(++(* @)(++(*  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Murders-White-House-Farm-investigation-ebook/product-reviews/B00UXKJ0SA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar

Bill doesn't sound too happy!

29th October 2015 - Bill Robertson
"If you enjoy a work of fiction, then this book is for you. However, if you want factual reporting with a high degree of accuracy, and if you want to evaluate the evidence and then make your own mind up, you will be misinformed by this book. For, it is pretty much a work of fiction.
If zero stars was possible, this book would merit zero. It is so disappointing that in 2015, with 30 years worth of important new material to reference, the author has relied primarily on discredited police sources that were compiled in 1986, e.g. the Dickinson report, which whitewashed police incompetence.Reading this book made me wonder if Essex Police paid for it to be written.
The murder scenario depicted by the author at the end of the book is laughable. For example, "Jeremy then forced Sheila down beside the bed and shot her once in the throat" What?
There is no evidence at all that Sheila was forced to the floor. According to pathologist Dr Vanezis her body bore no marks of a struggle whatsoever. So, she was not forced down beside the bed. Which leads to the next question. How did Jeremy Bamber with just words persuade his sister to lie down on the floor while he shot her, with the implied threat that he would kill her sons, if she did not already know they were dead? You can’t just shrug your shoulders and say, “Well he must have persuaded her somehow” that is not good enough. Think about it until you come up with a plausible explanation. You will have a long wait.
Another point to ponder. If Jeremy was so persuasive that he was able to convince Sheila to lie down and be killed by him, why did he not also persuade her to write a suicide note? Surely it would be easy to achieve for someone as cunning as Jeremy was made out to be? There is no logical reason why Sheila would have refused to do so if she was going to allow herself to be killed. If you believe Jeremy to be guilty then try to explain why he would have overlooked this obvious ploy.
How come three adults could not overpower one man? he could only point a rifle and shoot at one adult at a time.
If you are going to claim to produce a definitive account then you have to go beyond rehashing myths that were exposed as false years ago. For example, "Nevill was extremely safety conscious with guns". No, sadly he wasn't. If you take police reports at face value, you can believe this tripe, but read the trial testimony of Bamber's relatives, who describe guns being left in the bathroom or toilet or under the beds at White House Farm. There are crime scene photographs showing shotguns in the toilet. A loaded shotgun was kept in the bedroom for shooting at foxes.
One more example; how can you claim to write the definitive investigation without even mentioning that PC's Cracknell and Norcup were the first police officers to be sent to White House Farm by PC West at Chelmsford police station, five minutes before Jeremy telephoned the police. How can you not speculate why they drove there so slowly, taking 50 minutes to arrive? Perhaps they drove so slowly because they were responding to the call to PC West from Nevill Bamber and he did not convey any urgency in his phone call?
How about mentioning that there is unambiguous evidence that there are two different versions of PC West's incident recording message log; one clearly a forgery? Why not speculate on the reasons for needing to forge police documentation?
This is not a "definitive" account, it is not even a thorough account. It is nowhere near as good as a couple of other books on the subject, for example Scott Lomax's work. It barely considers much of the evidence of Jeremy's innocence that is contained on the Jeremy Bamber campaign website. So, it is very disappointing to read a book claiming so much and delivering so little.
By the way, Jeremy Bamber is innocent.




Bill posted on blue:
"Apologies, I didn't know I was meant to log in here first.
I have studied the first 2 hours of the case for the past 3 years; just the first 2 hours!
Finding out everything possible about what happened, particularly in relation to the police and trying to figure out which of my ex-colleagues have been economical with the truth, or supremely inventive.
I got interested because casting a professional eye over the case it was obvious where the lies were. Proving that they are lies takes a bit more effort.
Jeremy Bamber is innocent. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5568.msg243277.html#msg243277
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 06:30:00 PM
Trudi Benjamin's "hero" Mike Tesco states: "I am no mug!!  @)(++(*!  Muggy Mike 
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438954.html#msg438954
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 06:40:20 PM
Yet more threats  *&^^&

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438961.html#msg438961
Online mike tesko
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
 Re: Witness Statement of Doris Theresa TWEED - June Concerned about Sheila...
« Reply #32 on: Today at 06:26 PM »
"I would 'gladly' and 'personally' hang every last one of these lying police officers, it's 'out of order', and the lot of them are 's..m' of the earth...
« Last Edit: Today at 06:27 PM by mike tesko »
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 06:44:01 PM
Trudi Benjamin's "hero" Mike Tesco states: "I am no mug!!  @)(++(*!  Muggy Mike 
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438954.html#msg438954

He claims: "I know what I am talking about, I have helped hundreds of victims prove their innocence in a variety of miscarriages of justice...  @)(++(* http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438945.html#msg438945

What a moron!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 09, 2018, 06:56:04 PM
He claims: "I know what I am talking about, I have helped hundreds of victims prove their innocence in a variety of miscarriages of justice...  @)(++(* http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438945.html#msg438945

What a moron!

He's a fantasist.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 09, 2018, 06:57:47 PM
Yet more threats  *&^^&

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438961.html#msg438961
Online mike tesko
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
 Re: Witness Statement of Doris Theresa TWEED - June Concerned about Sheila...
« Reply #32 on: Today at 06:26 PM »
"I would 'gladly' and 'personally' hang every last one of these lying police officers, it's 'out of order', and the lot of them are 's..m' of the earth...
« Last Edit: Today at 06:27 PM by mike tesko »

I don't know why Essex Police haven't arrested that idiot by now.  Even the criminals hate a snitch.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 09, 2018, 07:42:27 PM
I don't know why Essex Police haven't arrested that idiot by now.  Even the criminals hate a snitch.
I think everyone leaves him alone, for the simple reason, he does more harm for Bamber than good, everyone  leaves his forum convinced of guilt.   &^^&*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2018, 07:58:34 PM
Lookout is a real nasty piece of work, and extremely dishonest, how many times has she posted something and then denied it? She's also proven herself to be racist and homophobic, just a spewer of negativity and hate - but it's all okay because she hides behind a username.

I think you were more than fair and balanced with her with some of the little stunts she attempted to pull on you and Caroline during your time together (She once even accused Caroline of trying to hack her email which is what ModMaggie once tried to pull on me.)

You had the patience of a saint.

NGB states:
"Please avoid language which is likely to offend other forum members, in particular avoiding language of an obscene or profane nature, or containing any racist, sexist or homophobic element. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1838.msg56929.html#msg56929
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 09, 2018, 08:20:01 PM
Moderators have also repeatedly said posters should 'focus on the post & not the poster'.

However when I asked about David's goading cartoons, posters, images & 'gish gash' posts, I got stone walled.

Again, David wisely did some brown nosing with his 'forensic evidence breakthrough' shortly after changing stance.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 09, 2018, 09:36:19 PM
Thanks Roch,  8((()*/. I’ve no gripe with you

I chose Real Justice because, it seems someone has my name Justice that’s all?  %56&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 10, 2018, 06:48:48 AM
I don't know why Essex Police haven't arrested that idiot by now.  Even the criminals hate a snitch.

Mike's, Nugs, Lookout's & Nigel's posts will prevent a lot of new people from becoming supporters. Which is why Bamber wanted the forum shut down.

David's forum role as Bamber fire fighter has now gone unless he starts disagreeing with fellow supporters. But the moderators won't let him use his images on supporters.

JackieD says Bamber is guilty because Julie identified the twins. Roch's main argument is he says he's seen evidence which 'shows Sheila is definately the killer'. But won't say whether Bamber has this evidence.

People taking a new interest in the case are just as likely to stumble across the Blue forum, as they are to view the OS.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 10, 2018, 07:00:58 AM
This was posted on Blue on the 24th April 2018 -

'This forum has been marvellously useful to me. It has given me the opportunity to ask a few questions and examine photos and documents in detail.

I joined with the purpose of confirming my suspicion that Bamber may be innocent. It has in fact lead me to believe that he is totally guilty and justifiably locked away.

I've been amazed by the whacky theories that some of his supporters put forward, and find myself shocked that even from his cell he continues to mislead the gullible.

Thank you for the opportunity to weigh up the evidence, my mind and conscience are now clear as to the truth of this matter. Over and out.'

----------

David tried to deflect blame onto Mike. However the poster did say 'some of his supporters'.  David,  Lookout, Roch, Nugs & Nigel had all posted during the 10 days the poster was viewing.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 10, 2018, 07:56:24 AM
Mike's, Nugs, Lookout's & Nigel's posts will prevent a lot of new people from becoming supporters. Which is why Bamber wanted the forum shut down.

David's forum role as Bamber fire fighter has now gone unless he starts disagreeing with fellow supporters. But the moderators won't let him use his images on supporters.

JackieD says Bamber is guilty because Julie identified the twins. Roch's main argument is he says he's seen evidence which 'shows Sheila is definately the killer'. But won't say whether Bamber has this evidence.

People taking a new interest in the case are just as likely to stumble across the Blue forum, as they are to view the OS.
I think they’ve got what they wanted all along Adam, if you prove Tesko is lying your out. 

Looks like the licience has been extended for ten years?

http://website.informer.com/jeremybamberforum.co.uk
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 10, 2018, 10:33:58 AM
Mike's, Nugs, Lookout's & Nigel's posts will prevent a lot of new people from becoming supporters. Which is why Bamber wanted the forum shut down.

David's forum role as Bamber fire fighter has now gone unless he starts disagreeing with fellow supporters. But the moderators won't let him use his images on supporters.

JackieD says Bamber is guilty because Julie identified the twins. Roch's main argument is he says he's seen evidence which 'shows Sheila is definately the killer'. But won't say whether Bamber has this evidence.

People taking a new interest in the case are just as likely to stumble across the Blue forum, as they are to view the OS.

Roch isn't a bad chappie but his innocence arguments are non existent.  Personally I think he is sceptical about Bamber too but can't bring himself to admit it publicly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2018, 12:55:35 PM
29 votes https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/994172464992317440  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 10, 2018, 01:03:40 PM
29 votes https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/994172464992317440  @)(++(*

Wow! 29 people? There was more than that in the post office queue yesterday  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2018, 01:09:41 PM
Wow! 29 people? There was more than that in the post office queue yesterday  @)(++(*

Arh but it doesn't mean 29 people took the quiz  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 10, 2018, 01:14:36 PM
Arh but it doesn't mean 29 people took the quiz  @)(++(*

Nor did they all think he passed  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2018, 01:21:19 PM
Nor did they all think he passed  @)(++(*

I wonder if Lookout was in the 10%?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2018, 01:23:14 PM
Nasty Nigel is now claiming, "SHEILA (God bless her) was 'grooming' this young girl HELEN GRIMSTER for possible helping with 'The Plan'. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438982.html#msg438982  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 10, 2018, 01:29:17 PM
Wow! 29 people? There was more than that in the post office queue yesterday  @)(++(*
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 10, 2018, 01:56:40 PM
Even MORE hilarous is the fact that only 6 people liked the post and one of those was Trudie B, one was JB Campaign LTD (which is also Trudie), one was Bamber Tweets (probably Trudie again) another is Heidi from the CT and one was Dee Sadler (the actress they've roped in.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* - not sure who the other one is but way to go! (A long way to go!)  8((()*/

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 10, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Even MORE hilarous is the fact that only 6 people liked the post and one of those was Trudie B, one was JB Campaign LTD (which is also Trudie), one was Bamber Tweets (probably Trudie again) another is Heidi from the CT and one was Dee Sadler (the actress they've roped in.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* - not sure who the other one is but way to go! (A long way to go!)  8((()*/
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2018, 03:08:33 PM
Even MORE hilarous is the fact that only 6 people liked the post and one of those was Trudie B, one was JB Campaign LTD (which is also Trudie), one was Bamber Tweets (probably Trudie again) another is Heidi from the CT and one was Dee Sadler (the actress they've roped in.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* - not sure who the other one is but way to go! (A long way to go!)  8((()*/

Ahahaha  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2018, 04:09:39 PM
I wonder if Trudi Benjamin has ever bothered to ask Bamber why he never mentioned what he allegedly saw in the WHF window (whilst outside with the 2 police officers) during his MURDER trial?

She appears to believe Bambers BS on this  *&^^&

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q0HnzXwa0mA

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=215.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 15, 2018, 07:03:45 PM
That lot are exploiting the name of Martin Luther King now on Bamber Twits!  @)(++(* @)(++(*

https://twitter.com/Bambertweets?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 15, 2018, 07:38:34 PM
That lot are exploiting the name of Martin Luther King now on Bamber Twits!  @)(++(* @)(++(*

https://twitter.com/Bambertweets?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


For God's sake! Just how deep will they scrape? Next we hear, they'll be putting him forward as Pope.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 15, 2018, 09:04:13 PM

For God's sake! Just how deep will they scrape? Next we hear, they'll be putting him forward as Pope.
Found this from someone April

Although white posh boy Bamber can't be pushed as a victim of racism or some other prejudice, like Ted Bundy, he has his groupies, although unlike Bundy they come in both sexes and apparently over a fair sprinkling of age groups. And they like Bamber are not shy about telling outright lies or peddling nonsense.
The police turned up at the property without any real understanding of what they were facing. They had only Bamber's word for what had happened inside the house, and for all they knew he could have been high on drugs, or the victim of a sick practical joke.
They assumed, indeed had to assume, that there were people alive inside, and that there was a hostage situation, so they shouted into the house. And of course, nobody shouted back. A police telephonist miles away entered in his log words to the effect that the officers had arrived and had made contact with someone inside the house, that they had started a conversation. This telephonist was telling the truth as he saw it, but unfortunately for Bamber if not for justice, shouting into a morgue does not constitute a conversation.


 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 16, 2018, 07:39:00 AM
Found this from someone April

Although white posh boy Bamber can't be pushed as a victim of racism or some other prejudice, like Ted Bundy, he has his groupies, although unlike Bundy they come in both sexes and apparently over a fair sprinkling of age groups. And they like Bamber are not shy about telling outright lies or peddling nonsense.
The police turned up at the property without any real understanding of what they were facing. They had only Bamber's word for what had happened inside the house, and for all they knew he could have been high on drugs, or the victim of a sick practical joke.
They assumed, indeed had to assume, that there were people alive inside, and that there was a hostage situation, so they shouted into the house. And of course, nobody shouted back. A police telephonist miles away entered in his log words to the effect that the officers had arrived and had made contact with someone inside the house, that they had started a conversation. This telephonist was telling the truth as he saw it, but unfortunately for Bamber if not for justice, shouting into a morgue does not constitute a conversation.

Exactly so, RJ.................which makes desperate and pathetically close to paranoia the ever louder claims that
 Stephen Kavanagh is responsible for the perceived wrongs of Essex Police, and "c.k.S". Puts me in mind of Bill Clinton who claimed not to have had "sex with that woman" and a child, mouth smeared with chocolate and swearing not to have eaten any. We KNOW the investigation was ballsed up. Police have their own responsibility in that. However, from the off, they only had Jeremy's word for what was likely to have transpired -and why. They either accepted what he said as gospel truth -at a time when they had nothing else to go on- OR disregarded everything he said. A chance they couldn't afford to take. Seems to me they may have been damned either way. They did it themselves or they allowed Jeremy to do it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 16, 2018, 09:04:04 PM
Nigel is talking to himself again.

David attempted a quiet stance change because he didn't have a reason for his change. Then wisely kept his distance from the other supporters such as Nigel & Roch as they make Bamber look more guilty.

Apart from posting isolated sources sometimes, he saw his role in life as the Blue forums 'Bamber protector'. Surfacing on the forum to focus on guilters rather their posts whenever a guilter posted. Not sure why.

Now that role is no longer needed he will choose a new role outside of Bamber's CT. Again, not sure why.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 17, 2018, 07:44:04 PM
It is bollox!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 18, 2018, 04:12:06 PM
Talking of Roch, it seems the mysterious evidence he had seen, which showed 'Sheila is definately the killer' was this -



As you know already, it was evidence of Sheila having been in a violent struggle with the other two adults.  All three adult victims sustained attack/defence wounds which are not referred to by PV.  I also mentioned the earring, also not referred to by PV.  You were given a snippet (back of Sheila's right hand), which I think was quite generous. 


---------

Think it was better to keep it mysterious. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 18, 2018, 04:49:25 PM
Talking of Roch, it seems the mysterious evidence he had seen, which showed 'Sheila is definately the killer' was this -



As you know already, it was evidence of Sheila having been in a violent struggle with the other two adults.  All three adult victims sustained attack/defence wounds which are not referred to by PV.  I also mentioned the earring, also not referred to by PV.  You were given a snippet (back of Sheila's right hand), which I think was quite generous.


---------

Think it was better to keep it mysterious.

Well, we've already argued this out, there was no reason for PV not to note such injuries when he noted old scars. Also, I can see no earring on her nightdress and her earring were all accounted for. Jeremy said she was wearing a 'purple stud' on the night of the murders, that's some recollection given that he can't remember times or who he called first!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 18, 2018, 05:23:37 PM
Well, we've already argued this out, there was no reason for PV not to note such injuries when he noted old scars. Also, I can see no earring on her nightdress and her earring were all accounted for. Jeremy said she was wearing a 'purple stud' on the night of the murders, that's some recollection given that he can't remember times or who he called first!

Hasn't it only just been recalled -perhaps thanks to the recent suggestion of an accomplice assisting Sheila- that Jeremy was quite explicit about a certain Ralph Neville being knowledgeable about fire arms and being involved in a murder in his home in South Africa involving them. MORE, he was wanted for questioning. Strange then, that he was allegedly headed back to that country, surreptitiously escaping this one.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 18, 2018, 06:46:19 PM
Hasn't it only just been recalled -perhaps thanks to the recent suggestion of an accomplice assisting Sheila- that Jeremy was quite explicit about a certain Ralph Neville being knowledgeable about fire arms and being involved in a murder in his home in South Africa involving them. MORE, he was wanted for questioning. Strange then, that he was allegedly headed back to that country, surreptitiously escaping this one.

Refer to post 591  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 19, 2018, 05:54:09 PM
Hope is what you stole from two six year old boys!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 20, 2018, 05:11:22 PM
Found this from someone April

Although white posh boy Bamber can't be pushed as a victim of racism or some other prejudice, like Ted Bundy, he has his groupies, although unlike Bundy they come in both sexes and apparently over a fair sprinkling of age groups. And they like Bamber are not shy about telling outright lies or peddling nonsense.
The police turned up at the property without any real understanding of what they were facing. They had only Bamber's word for what had happened inside the house, and for all they knew he could have been high on drugs, or the victim of a sick practical joke.
They assumed, indeed had to assume, that there were people alive inside, and that there was a hostage situation, so they shouted into the house. And of course, nobody shouted back. A police telephonist miles away entered in his log words to the effect that the officers had arrived and had made contact with someone inside the house, that they had started a conversation. This telephonist was telling the truth as he saw it, but unfortunately for Bamber if not for justice, shouting into a morgue does not constitute a conversation.

Excellent point.  Normal procedure in such incidents dictates that the senior officer on site gives regular advisements to HQ of the ongoing situation so that further resources can be readied or deployed if necessary.  No doubt the information that officers were attempting to make contact with those inside the farmhouse was slightly misconstrued in the heat of the moment.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 20, 2018, 05:12:42 PM
Hope is what you stole from two six year old boys!

Absolutely true.   8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 20, 2018, 06:30:42 PM
Found this from someone April

Although white posh boy Bamber can't be pushed as a victim of racism or some other prejudice, like Ted Bundy, he has his groupies, although unlike Bundy they come in both sexes and apparently over a fair sprinkling of age groups. And they like Bamber are not shy about telling outright lies or peddling nonsense.
The police turned up at the property without any real understanding of what they were facing. They had only Bamber's word for what had happened inside the house, and for all they knew he could have been high on drugs, or the victim of a sick practical joke.
They assumed, indeed had to assume, that there were people alive inside, and that there was a hostage situation, so they shouted into the house. And of course, nobody shouted back. A police telephonist miles away entered in his log words to the effect that the officers had arrived and had made contact with someone inside the house, that they had started a conversation. This telephonist was telling the truth as he saw it, but unfortunately for Bamber if not for justice, shouting into a morgue does not constitute a conversation.

Hi Justice, actually it's much simpler than that. There was no mistake and the lods described what happened. The logs never said that they were in conversation with someone inside the house, they said they were in conversation with 'a person' from inside the 'farm. They were, the raid team were in conversation with Jeremy and their WS back this up. They was 'in conversation with Jeremy, just before making the challenge to the house where it is logged 'challenge to 'persons' inside the house were met with no response'. These words have simply been manipulated by Bamber and his supporters.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 20, 2018, 06:53:44 PM
Hi Justice, actually it's much simpler than that. There was no mistake and the lods described what happened. The logs never said that they were in conversation with someone inside the house, they said they were in conversation with 'a person' from inside the 'farm. They were, the raid team were in conversation with Jeremy and their WS back this up. They was 'in conversation with Jeremy, just before making the challenge to the house where it is logged 'challenge to 'persons' inside the house were met with no response'. These words have simply been manipulated by Bamber and his supporters.

One is left to wonder who it was who might have been 'clever' enough to point that possible 'get out of jail' loop-hole to him?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 21, 2018, 12:00:54 PM
More silly questions by the CT

Why was the log referring to Jeremy's call never shown to the jury
- IT WAS READ OUT BY WEST AND DISCUSSED IN DETAIL DURING THE TRIAL. The CT are trying to make it sound as though the llog was withheld - IT WASN'T!

Why did the police dispatch more than one car? Because they were sent in response to different calls! CA5 was sent in response to West's call to Witham, West radioed Witham after talking to Bonnett at HQ. Bonnett organises CA7 (Bews, Saxby and Myall). Both cars were sent from Witham, however, the likelyhood is that CA5 didn't actually set off until later because Bews in CA7, went to the scene. Both CA5 and CA6 arrived at WHF at 04:23 and most likely set off together when it was discovered the incident was serious.

What happened to the emergency call tapes? What emergency call tapes? Why would there be emergency call tapes? West didn't call the emergency number to contact HQ - he called on an inernal line - oh and Nevile didn't call at all.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on May 27, 2018, 03:19:58 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9466.msg439513/topicseen.html#msg439513

Nigel is off again. Away from the CT, supporters still have specific roles.

Nigel manages his 'countdown', 'Stephen Kavanagh' & 'reward threads'. Mike posts his theories, Nugs his conspiracy theories. Mike with sources, Nugs without.

Lookout says 'Jeremy is innocent' & Roch likes to muddy the waters.

David monitors the Blue forum 24/7 & will surface on it if a guilter posts. Usually to focus on the guilter rather than the post.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on May 27, 2018, 06:26:25 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9466.msg439513/topicseen.html#msg439513

Nigel is off again. Away from the CT, supporters still have specific roles.

Nigel manages his 'countdown', 'Stephen Kavanagh' & 'reward threads'. Mike posts his theories, Nugs his conspiracy theories. Mike with sources, Nugs without.

Lookout says 'Jeremy is innocent' & Roch likes to muddy the waters.

David monitors the Blue forum 24/7 & will surface on it if a guilter posts. Usually to focus on the guilter rather than the post.
So nothings changed then  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on June 01, 2018, 01:08:20 PM
Memo:

A reminder to all posters to keep comments constructive and amicable. Attack opinion by all means but please do not make personal comments towards fellow members. This forum prides itself in allowing all shades of opinion so please bear this in mind when responding. TY and have a pleasant weekend.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 04, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
Further to John's post above I have just removed a couple of posts.

If a member experiences problems please use the 'report to moderator' function or pm a moderator with a link to the relevant post(s) at the earliest opportunity.  The removed posts relate to a comment made in April. 

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 05, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
David now claiming Dr Craig was called to WHF to subdue SC:

Dr Craig was called to attend the scene under the impression he would be needed to help the police subdue Sheila. When he arrived he had nothing to do other than declare them dead. He spent around fifteen minutes inside the farm house.

Had the chain of communication got the fact of no survivors to him sooner, he would not have attended and the five dead would have been certified/declared dead by a doctor on arrival at the autopsy facility instead.

Dr Craig is of no real significance. His job was to help the police manage difficult people and difficult situations not investigate the aftermath.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg440130.html?PHPSESSID=a0lfinonb0k7lgt43mtrhalos7#msg440130

As usual with David he gets everything wrong.  Chief Sup Harris contacted Dr Craig after the raid team entered and found 1 adult male, 2 adult females and 2 children all presumed dead.  Dr Craig's main objective was to  certify the deaths and to confirm whether or not JB was fit to be interviewed/provide a ws.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

And Lookout you have no evidence Dr Craig had any issues with alcohol.  If the late Dr Craig's family read these forums I hope they look to take action against those who spread malicious rumours about him.  You, David and Gladys are up in arms about the rumours spread about JB and yet can't see you do the exact same thing.  And Gladys supposedly a Christian! 

Lookout you just can't help yourself can you?  This is the reason you're despised.  You constantly bad mouth people eg SC promiscuous and now suggesting Dr Craig had issues with alcohol despite the fact you have zero evidence for either.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

At the time of WHF Dr Craig had been a police surgeon for more than 30 years and was president of the police surgeons assoc.  There's no evidence he was anything other than a credible and reliable expert witness.  Do you have any evidence to the contrary eg complaints to the GMC?  If you do post them up.  If you don't then I suggest you put a sock in it. 

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on June 05, 2018, 03:51:13 PM
David now claiming Dr Craig was called to WHF to subdue SC:

Dr Craig was called to attend the scene under the impression he would be needed to help the police subdue Sheila. When he arrived he had nothing to do other than declare them dead. He spent around fifteen minutes inside the farm house.

Had the chain of communication got the fact of no survivors to him sooner, he would not have attended and the five dead would have been certified/declared dead by a doctor on arrival at the autopsy facility instead.

Dr Craig is of no real significance. His job was to help the police manage difficult people and difficult situations not investigate the aftermath.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg440130.html?PHPSESSID=a0lfinonb0k7lgt43mtrhalos7#msg440130

As usual with David he gets everything wrong.  Chief Sup Harris contacted Dr Craig after the raid team entered and found 1 adult male, 2 adult females and 2 children all presumed dead.  Dr Craig's main objective was to  certify the deaths and to confirm whether or not JB was fit to be interviewed/provide a ws.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

And Lookout you have no evidence Dr Craig had any issues with alcohol.  If the late Dr Craig's family read these forums I hope they look to take action against those who spread malicious rumours about him.  You, David and Gladys are up in arms about the rumours spread about JB and yet can't see you do the exact same thing.  And Gladys supposedly a Christian! 

Lookout you just can't help yourself can you?  This is the reason you're despised.  You constantly bad mouth people eg SC promiscuous and now suggesting Dr Craig had issues with alcohol despite the fact you have zero evidence for either.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

At the time of WHF Dr Craig had been a police surgeon for more than 30 years and was president of the police surgeons assoc.  There's no evidence he was anything other than a credible and reliable expert witness.  Do you have any evidence to the contrary eg complaints to the GMC?  If you do post them up.  If you don't then I suggest you put a sock in it.

David doesn't see the need to back up his posts - his word is enough to make it a fact - in his world.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on June 05, 2018, 04:38:11 PM
David doesn't see the need to back up his posts - his word is enough to make it a fact - in his world.

I wonder why the change of stance on Dr Craig? He's been used to prove points in the past... but now he seems to be being dismissed as not important..

As for supporters... Anyone else shocked with the utter shit that racist bitch Lookout is posting? It's not the first time she's been openly racist, last time dissing Romanians saying she'd "step over them in the streets".
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on June 05, 2018, 05:43:13 PM
David now claiming Dr Craig was called to WHF to subdue SC:

Dr Craig was called to attend the scene under the impression he would be needed to help the police subdue Sheila. When he arrived he had nothing to do other than declare them dead. He spent around fifteen minutes inside the farm house.

Had the chain of communication got the fact of no survivors to him sooner, he would not have attended and the five dead would have been certified/declared dead by a doctor on arrival at the autopsy facility instead.

Dr Craig is of no real significance. His job was to help the police manage difficult people and difficult situations not investigate the aftermath.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg440130.html?PHPSESSID=a0lfinonb0k7lgt43mtrhalos7#msg440130

As usual with David he gets everything wrong.  Chief Sup Harris contacted Dr Craig after the raid team entered and found 1 adult male, 2 adult females and 2 children all presumed dead.  Dr Craig's main objective was to  certify the deaths and to confirm whether or not JB was fit to be interviewed/provide a ws.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

And Lookout you have no evidence Dr Craig had any issues with alcohol.  If the late Dr Craig's family read these forums I hope they look to take action against those who spread malicious rumours about him.  You, David and Gladys are up in arms about the rumours spread about JB and yet can't see you do the exact same thing.  And Gladys supposedly a Christian! 

Lookout you just can't help yourself can you?  This is the reason you're despised.  You constantly bad mouth people eg SC promiscuous and now suggesting Dr Craig had issues with alcohol despite the fact you have zero evidence for either.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

At the time of WHF Dr Craig had been a police surgeon for more than 30 years and was president of the police surgeons assoc.  There's no evidence he was anything other than a credible and reliable expert witness.  Do you have any evidence to the contrary eg complaints to the GMC?  If you do post them up.  If you don't then I suggest you put a sock in it.

I gave up on the Hugo Boss thread after 2 pages. Even though I created it ! Ditto every other recent thread.

Lookout is having conversations with another poster which will last several weeks. Or months.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ActualMat on June 05, 2018, 08:22:23 PM
Lookout is just proving herself to be a liar, she did call me a white trash, she did call me a fairy, she did say she'd step over romanians in the street and was sick of them. She DID call April a "LIAR!"

But she denies it all getting worse and worse with a trial of deciet, lies and a bunch of people who can't stand her - and its' not just on the red and blue forums.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Real justice on June 05, 2018, 10:13:41 PM
David now claiming Dr Craig was called to WHF to subdue SC:

Dr Craig was called to attend the scene under the impression he would be needed to help the police subdue Sheila. When he arrived he had nothing to do other than declare them dead. He spent around fifteen minutes inside the farm house.

Had the chain of communication got the fact of no survivors to him sooner, he would not have attended and the five dead would have been certified/declared dead by a doctor on arrival at the autopsy facility instead.

Dr Craig is of no real significance. His job was to help the police manage difficult people and difficult situations not investigate the aftermath.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg440130.html?PHPSESSID=a0lfinonb0k7lgt43mtrhalos7#msg440130

As usual with David he gets everything wrong.  Chief Sup Harris contacted Dr Craig after the raid team entered and found 1 adult male, 2 adult females and 2 children all presumed dead.  Dr Craig's main objective was to  certify the deaths and to confirm whether or not JB was fit to be interviewed/provide a ws.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

And Lookout you have no evidence Dr Craig had any issues with alcohol.  If the late Dr Craig's family read these forums I hope they look to take action against those who spread malicious rumours about him.  You, David and Gladys are up in arms about the rumours spread about JB and yet can't see you do the exact same thing.  And Gladys supposedly a Christian! 

Lookout you just can't help yourself can you?  This is the reason you're despised.  You constantly bad mouth people eg SC promiscuous and now suggesting Dr Craig had issues with alcohol despite the fact you have zero evidence for either.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0

At the time of WHF Dr Craig had been a police surgeon for more than 30 years and was president of the police surgeons assoc.  There's no evidence he was anything other than a credible and reliable expert witness.  Do you have any evidence to the contrary eg complaints to the GMC?  If you do post them up.  If you don't then I suggest you put a sock in it.
Good post Holly, it’s always the same, they cannot discuss the case civil, it has to end up where they slander the person with untruths and offer no evidence and then  try to belittle and slander, either the Expert or family member, hoping that mud sticks, doesn’t matter this person has a family and might have children themselves.  They hide under the umbrella of thug Tesko and try to be like him and think they are immune from prosecution, rest assured they are not
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 06, 2018, 09:19:50 AM
Lookout, Gladys spreading malicious gossip and rumors about Dr Craig isn't evidence of anything.  It's akin to JM, BW and AE et al saying this that and the other about JB.  Do you not understand, you silly old goat.  Evidence of a medi doctor either incompetent, negligent or engaged in some sort of wrongdoing against his/her code of ethics would be for example some disciplinary measures taken by the General Medical Council.  Do you have any such evidence? No you don't so I suggest you put a sock in it and stop spreading malicious gossip and rumors about a hard working police surgeon long deceased.   You often say it's easy to kick a man when he's down ie JB.  Even easier when a man is 6' foot under!  Silly old goat.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 06, 2018, 09:52:01 AM
And Lookout, you silly ... ...., I thought you said you don't blindly follow others?  Instead you claim to be your own person capable of forming your own opinions.  Why would you repeat something told by Gladys without any evidence to back it up?  Locals spreading gossip and rumors isn't evidence of anything silly ... .....
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on June 06, 2018, 10:32:34 AM
And Lookout, you silly ... ...., I thought you said you don't blindly follow others?  Instead you claim to be your own person capable of forming your own opinions.  Why would you repeat something told by Gladys without any evidence to back it up?  Locals spreading gossip and rumors isn't evidence of anything silly ... .....

One's smelly and stubborn with dangly tits and a beard. The other's a goat!!


 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on June 07, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
Lookout has said herself she's in her late 70's. She obviously wants to spend her final days saying 'Jeremy is innocent' based on her 'gut feeling'.  On a forum she knows she is fiercely protected on.

One or two posters will spend all day engaging with her in never ending conversations no one will read.

Sometimes she can be abusive towards a poster. When going into Bamber defence mode but unable to give an answer. But no where near as bad as David's goading.

Can't see a problem in letting her continue.   
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 07, 2018, 08:31:51 AM
Lookout has said herself she's in her late 70's. She obviously wants to spend her final days saying 'Jeremy is innocent' based on her 'gut feeling'.  On a forum she knows she is fiercely protected on.

One or two posters will spend all day engaging with her in never ending conversations no one will read.

Sometimes she can be abusive towards a poster. When going into Bamber defence mode but unable to give an answer. But no where near as bad as David's goading.

Can't see a problem in letting her continue.

No wonder Jeremy Bamber wanted the Jeremy Bamber forum closed down but Tesko refused to comply.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on June 07, 2018, 09:23:06 AM
The 'Injustice Anywhere' forum is very quiet, even by it's own quiet standards. Only two posts this month.

Lookout is currently the busiest forum supporter. Shortly to be re joined by Mike.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on June 08, 2018, 07:11:07 PM
Mike has reclaimed his place as the biggest Bamber supporter forum poster.

He briefly joined in a conversation with the dear ladies. But normal service has resumed and he has started posting on his own new threads.

But where is Nigel ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
Mike has reclaimed his place as the biggest Bamber supporter forum poster.

He briefly joined in a conversation with the dear ladies. But normal service has resumed and he has started posting on his own new threads.

But where is Nigel ?

He doesn't seem to be answering any questions on them though.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on June 08, 2018, 08:27:50 PM
I asked Mike yesterday what Bamber said to him about Julie. But got no response.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on June 08, 2018, 09:41:01 PM
I asked Mike yesterday what Bamber said to him about Julie. But got no response.

I'm interested in why he posted the bible open at Luke 12.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 09, 2018, 11:23:46 AM
The 'Injustice Anywhere' forum is very quiet, even by it's own quiet standards. Only two posts this month.

Lookout is currently the busiest forum supporter. Shortly to be re joined by Mike.

Someone by the username of 'IsThisTheLife' seems to think he/she has seen something hitherto overlooked.  It's all covered in the pathology report.

He/she supports '2 dead bodies in the kitchen'.  Probably someone from the CT.  I can no longer be bothered to point out why these claims are so obviously wrong.   

Andrew Hunter in CTSB supported the theory of '2 dead bodies in the kitchen' along with the blood in the silencer originating from an animal. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on June 10, 2018, 11:15:31 AM
IA is not really just hardcore supporters. 

Luminous Wanderer has said he is looking at how the conviction is unsafe, rather than saying Bamber is innocent.

Similar to Luminous Wanderer, TomG was not confident enough to continue debating with guilters on the Blue forum.

David used to be a hardcore guilter who attempted a quiet stance change. Realising he was not going to be allowed to goad supporters/moderators as a guilter. He monitors Blue 24/7 for guilter posters to goad.

IA is more a safe haven, where posters will more or less agree with each other, due to not coming up against hardcore guilters.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Admin on June 10, 2018, 01:48:25 PM
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Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 13, 2018, 07:49:42 PM
Jackie stated: "All I can say is good luck, nice scam Jeremy

Bottom line is NO ONE trusts Jeremy Bamber

His campaign days are over

He should admit his guilt and show some remorse for murdering his family, that's the only hope he has left - as pointed out by a Supreme Court judge

"what tipped the balance for me in voting with the majority was the Court’s confirmation, in this judgment, that Article 3 encompasses what might be described as “the right to hope”. It goes no further than that. The judgment recognises, implicitly, that hope is an important and constitutive aspect of the human person. Those who commit the most abhorrent and egregious of acts and who inflict untold suffering upon others, nevertheless retain their fundamental humanity and carry within themselves the capacity to change. Long and deserved though their prison sentences may be, they retain the right to hope that, someday, they may have atoned for the wrongs which they have committed. They ought not to be deprived entirely of such hope. To deny them the experience of hope would be to deny a fundamental aspect of their humanity and, to do that, would be degrading.

When's Jeremy Bamber going to finally confess to his quite apparent guilt?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 13, 2018, 08:53:14 PM
IA is not really just hardcore supporters. 

Luminous Wanderer has said he is looking at how the conviction is unsafe, rather than saying Bamber is innocent.

Similar to Luminous Wanderer, TomG was not confident enough to continue debating with guilters on the Blue forum.

David used to be a hardcore guilter who attempted a quiet stance change. Realising he was not going to be allowed to goad supporters/moderators as a guilter. He monitors Blue 24/7 for guilter posters to goad.

IA is more a safe haven, where posters will more or less agree with each other, due to not coming up against hardcore guilters.

I wouldn't say that.  I disagree strongly with Luminious Wanderer, TomG, Frankie Lee and IsThisTheLife.   
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 14, 2018, 09:24:51 PM
I'm sure Mr Kavanagh will receive any correspondence re the above like a breath of fresh air especially after this BS https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986

and this https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986





"Police have accused a multiple murderer of "circumnavigating the formal process" of appeal by using the media and websites to fight his conviction.
Jeremy Bamber, 55, is serving a whole life term for killing five members of his family in Essex in 1985.
His supporters are calling for evidence to be disclosed and wrote to MPs who in turn have written to Essex Police.
A reply from the chief constable's office has outlined the reasons why the force will not reopen his case.
In the reply, Insp Matt Cornish, Staff Officer to Essex Police's chief constable, makes reference to findings by the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission in Bamber's case, which found no new evidence or proof the trial's fairness had been affected.
Insp Cornish said Bamber was "well aware of the legal processes that he should follow to seek a review of his convictions".
"His attempt at circumnavigating the formal process using the media and websites is ill-conceived," the letter continued. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802


I would suggest the police message from Essex police was not only to Jeremy Bamber but to the J B Campaign Ltd company and all others who were involved.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/communications-committee/news-parliament-2017/internet-regulation-nca-evidence/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on June 15, 2018, 10:07:30 AM
I wouldn't say that.  I disagree strongly with Luminious Wanderer, TomG, Frankie Lee and IsThisTheLife.   

I rarely post on Blue. Mike & Lookout are the only supporters who regulary post.

Mike does provide sources, however only Scipio used to respond to his crazy theories. Lookout doesn't provide sources & only two posters respond to her crazy theories.

However I've no desire to join IA. It's quiet, highlighting the posters are not convinced of Bamber's innocence.  Although I will read it sometimes.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: IndigoJ on July 29, 2018, 03:11:53 PM
I'm pretty sure none of us who discuss this case on the internet make any difference at all to the case.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on July 29, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
The latest new revelation on Blue is from Nugs. Who says the defence were withheld certain parts of the pathologists notes.

Which parts he didn't say. A source was requested but not supplied. Getting a source from Nugs is like trying to win the Grand National. Without a horse.

Nugs does create threads based on brand new quotes or information. As a Conspiracy Theorist he will have a vision of what happened. But no sources.

Creating a thread saying it happened which creates discussion, validates his vision. He just has to ignore the source requests.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on July 29, 2018, 03:28:34 PM
I'm pretty sure none of us who discuss this case on the internet make any difference at all to the case.

With Mike's giant stuffed tiger, David's diagrams, Lookout's 'Gut Feeling' & Nugs's vision.

I disagree.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: IndigoJ on July 29, 2018, 04:21:25 PM
With Mike's giant stuffed tiger, David's diagrams, Lookout's 'Gut Feeling' & Nugs's vision.

I disagree.

and how is that going to make any difference ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on July 29, 2018, 04:40:10 PM
With Mike's giant stuffed tiger, David's diagrams, Lookout's 'Gut Feeling' & Nugs's vision.

I disagree.
and how is that going to make any difference ?
White man speak with forked tongue in cheek. kemo sabe!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: IndigoJ on July 29, 2018, 06:59:57 PM
White man speak with forked tongue in cheek. kemo sabe!

what are you talking about?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on July 29, 2018, 07:10:10 PM
what are you talking about?

Oh dear! I'll try to explain. I THINK Myster was suggesting that Adam MAY have injected into his post, the tiniest bit of sarcasm with the meerest hint of very gentle mockery. All rather. as Myster said, tongue in cheek. Then, of course, there's the lovely Tonto's kemosabe, Roy Rogers and his trusty Silver @)(++(* I'm positive either or both of them will hasten to correct me if I've got it wrong.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on July 29, 2018, 07:23:18 PM
what are you talking about?
APRIL has just explained my post perfectly... LOL!!!!

Holly says that I have a dry sense of humour, which I guess some don't get at all..... and Adam, well... he's off the planet!

Hi-Yo Silver!!!...................
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on July 29, 2018, 07:32:49 PM
APRIL has just explained my post perfectly... LOL!!!!

Holly says that I have a dry sense of humour, which I guess some don't get at all..... and Adam, well... he's off the planet!

Hi-Yo Silver!!!...................

SO dry, one might even describe it as being cracked? @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on July 29, 2018, 07:36:59 PM
SO dry, one might even describe it as being cracked? @)(++(*
TYVM... Sweetie!  $6(&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on July 29, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
TYVM... Sweetie!  $6(&


 *^&* *^&* *^&*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on July 29, 2018, 07:55:28 PM
I am pleased posters noticed my sarcasm. I assume Mike won his giant stuffed tiger at a fair & it wasn't bought to show how Jeremy is innocent.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: IndigoJ on July 29, 2018, 08:59:22 PM
Oh dear! I'll try to explain. I THINK Myster was suggesting that Adam MAY have injected into his post, the tiniest bit of sarcasm with the meerest hint of very gentle mockery. All rather. as Myster said, tongue in cheek. Then, of course, there's the lovely Tonto's kemosabe, Roy Rogers and his trusty Silver @)(++(* I'm positive either or both of them will hasten to correct me if I've got it wrong.

well that went right over my head
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2019, 09:43:02 PM
.

Speaking of which, this was recently tweeted by Dr Michael Naughton

"A herd of elephants is needed in the criminal justice system room - police & prosecutors are not disclosing vital evidence; defence lawyers are failing to investigate cases properly; juries are convicting innocent people; the appeal courts & the CCRC are failing the innocent too. https://mobile.twitter.com/mjnaughton_/status/981433818103123969

Michael Naughton appears oblivious, but we know he isn't! It's a facade, self preservation possibly?

A heard of elephants are running amok within the miscarriage of justice movement and there's one sat on Michael Naughtons lap.

Seems tweets are being removed? Which is of course the prerogative of the author but what motivated them to do so I wonder?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 22, 2019, 10:55:40 PM
Seems tweets are being removed? Which is of course the prerogative of the author but what motivated them to do so I wonder?

Interesting question?  If I were Naughton I would hang my head very low for trying to free murderers.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 23, 2019, 07:39:07 PM
Depends on what supporters do.

Trudie is probably useful behind the scenes. However her weekly vlogs quickly stopped.

Mike may have been useful early on. But now has no contact with Jeremy.

Nugs & David help ensure the Jeremy Bamber forum is not over loaded with guilters. But both know they would make Jeremy look more guilty if they ventured away from the forum.

Eric Allison & Andrew Hunter have a bit of gravitas. However Andrew Hunter rarely gets involved.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on April 23, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
'Luminous Wanderer' & 'TomG' left forums after a few days, when they first had their views challenged. They would not have had the strenght or staying power to be helpful to Jeremy long term.

Nigel resurfacing would be a disaster.

Mike said he is going to release a Youtube video on the silencer. People can decide if this is a help or hindrence upon release.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on October 24, 2019, 05:07:12 PM
Bill doesn't sound too happy!

29th October 2015 - Bill Robertson
"If you enjoy a work of fiction, then this book is for you. However, if you want factual reporting with a high degree of accuracy, and if you want to evaluate the evidence and then make your own mind up, you will be misinformed by this book. For, it is pretty much a work of fiction.
If zero stars was possible, this book would merit zero. It is so disappointing that in 2015, with 30 years worth of important new material to reference, the author has relied primarily on discredited police sources that were compiled in 1986, e.g. the Dickinson report, which whitewashed police incompetence.Reading this book made me wonder if Essex Police paid for it to be written.
The murder scenario depicted by the author at the end of the book is laughable. For example, "Jeremy then forced Sheila down beside the bed and shot her once in the throat" What?
There is no evidence at all that Sheila was forced to the floor. According to pathologist Dr Vanezis her body bore no marks of a struggle whatsoever. So, she was not forced down beside the bed. Which leads to the next question. How did Jeremy Bamber with just words persuade his sister to lie down on the floor while he shot her, with the implied threat that he would kill her sons, if she did not already know they were dead? You can’t just shrug your shoulders and say, “Well he must have persuaded her somehow” that is not good enough. Think about it until you come up with a plausible explanation. You will have a long wait.
Another point to ponder. If Jeremy was so persuasive that he was able to convince Sheila to lie down and be killed by him, why did he not also persuade her to write a suicide note? Surely it would be easy to achieve for someone as cunning as Jeremy was made out to be? There is no logical reason why Sheila would have refused to do so if she was going to allow herself to be killed. If you believe Jeremy to be guilty then try to explain why he would have overlooked this obvious ploy.
How come three adults could not overpower one man? he could only point a rifle and shoot at one adult at a time.
If you are going to claim to produce a definitive account then you have to go beyond rehashing myths that were exposed as false years ago. For example, "Nevill was extremely safety conscious with guns". No, sadly he wasn't. If you take police reports at face value, you can believe this tripe, but read the trial testimony of Bamber's relatives, who describe guns being left in the bathroom or toilet or under the beds at White House Farm. There are crime scene photographs showing shotguns in the toilet. A loaded shotgun was kept in the bedroom for shooting at foxes.
One more example; how can you claim to write the definitive investigation without even mentioning that PC's Cracknell and Norcup were the first police officers to be sent to White House Farm by PC West at Chelmsford police station, five minutes before Jeremy telephoned the police. How can you not speculate why they drove there so slowly, taking 50 minutes to arrive? Perhaps they drove so slowly because they were responding to the call to PC West from Nevill Bamber and he did not convey any urgency in his phone call?
How about mentioning that there is unambiguous evidence that there are two different versions of PC West's incident recording message log; one clearly a forgery? Why not speculate on the reasons for needing to forge police documentation?
This is not a "definitive" account, it is not even a thorough account. It is nowhere near as good as a couple of other books on the subject, for example Scott Lomax's work. It barely considers much of the evidence of Jeremy's innocence that is contained on the Jeremy Bamber campaign website. So, it is very disappointing to read a book claiming so much and delivering so little.
By the way, Jeremy Bamber is innocent.




Bill posted on blue:
"Apologies, I didn't know I was meant to log in here first.
I have studied the first 2 hours of the case for the past 3 years; just the first 2 hours!
Finding out everything possible about what happened, particularly in relation to the police and trying to figure out which of my ex-colleagues have been economical with the truth, or supremely inventive.
I got interested because casting a professional eye over the case it was obvious where the lies were. Proving that they are lies takes a bit more effort.
Jeremy Bamber is innocent. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5568.msg243277.html#msg243277

Jeremy Bamber Campaign Official Web Site
Supplement, Shock, Trauma, Response
By Bill Robertson.
Of significance in the way that Jeremy reacted to the murders and the way that he was later described by the police and media is the fact that he had had only a maximum of 4 hours sleep prior to being telephoned by Nevill and asked to attend White House Farm. It is inevitable that he was feeling disorientated and that he paid little attention to details that would later be used to build a case against him i.e. the precise time and order that he made telephone calls.[1]
Jeremy was in no fit state to be interviewed by the police on the day of the murders. He was in shock and suffering anxiety when for example, at one point, Jeremy allegedly mentioned his interest in purchasing a Porsche car. At his trial the following year the prosecution alleged that Jeremy wished to purchase a new Porsche at a cost of many tens of thousands of pounds. They said to the jury that this planned extravagant expenditure showed prior knowledge that he was soon to inherit his parent’s wealth. The prosecution’s claim was erroneous; Jeremy did plan to buy a car but the vehicle in question was a replica Porsche kit car, at a cost of approximately £2000. Jeremy could afford such a vehicle without the inheritance money. The police later confirmed it was a replica car from interviewing the manufacturer that Jeremy had contacted. Thus, in unguarded moments Jeremy’s innocent comments were used against him at a later stage.
For the remainder of the day of the murders he was alternately badgered for information or left to ruminate; police actions were clumsy, insensitive and self-centred and not calculated to assist Jeremy. He was being treated merely as a witness to a crime rather than a victim of a crime which was how the police operated in those days.
In the 1980’s Police training and practices allowed no room for considerations of victim support. The police officers who had contact with Jeremy were experienced officers recruited in the 1970’s era when victim support was unheard of. The 12 week initial training course for police officers made no mention of the subject. The sole interest of the police was to obtain information from Jeremy as and when they wanted it and to keep Jeremy away from external influences as much as possible. (Jeremy also seems to have been asked to repeat the same information ad infinitum to various police officers and any slight variation in his story was later used against him).
While the main investigative police officer (DCI Taff Jones) never wavered in his belief that Sheila had murdered her family, Jeremy also had to cope with the unwelcome attention of DS Stan Jones who appears to have had a pathological determination to frame Jeremy for the murders. Apart from the various illegal searches of Jeremy’s house undertaken by DS Jones on false pretences there was the added factor that the seemingly alcoholic police detective expected to be given copious amounts of whisky every time he visited Jeremy at his home. This may seem a trivial detail but for someone grieving the loss of their family having a detective turn up unannounced and expecting there to be a bottle of whisky always available is an unwelcome additional pressure; DS Jones was seemingly not shy of voicing his disapproval if Jeremy did not have alcohol to hand.
Elisabeth Kübler-Ross described a process of reaction to trauma and subsequent grieving as the ‘trauma cycle’ which involves phases of Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Jeremy experienced and no doubt continues to experience these aspects. In Jeremy’s situation due to the nature of the police investigation he was constantly being assaulted by fresh accusations and he would have experienced these emotions many times over.
The trauma stages have evolved since their introduction and they have been very misunderstood over the past three decades. They are responses to loss that many people have, but there is not a typical response to loss as there is no typical loss. Our grief is as individual as our lives. Jeremy’s loss was extreme and some of his reactions should have been expected to be extreme.
Due to the behaviour of the police and the media and his money-grasping relatives Jeremy was never allowed to work his way uninterrupted or with appropriate support through the stages described below.
The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost. They are tools to help us frame and identify what we may be feeling. But they are not stops on some linear timeline in grief. Not everyone goes through all of them or in a prescribed order.
Denial
This first stage of grieving helps us to survive the loss. In this stage, the world becomes meaningless and overwhelming. Life makes no sense. We are in a state of shock and denial. We go numb. We wonder how we can go on, if we can go on, why we should go on. We try to find a way to simply get through each day. Denial and shock help us to cope and make survival possible. Denial helps us to pace our feelings of grief. There is a grace in denial. It is nature’s way of letting in only as much as we can handle.
In Jeremy’s case the ‘denial’ stage was compounded by conflicting demands and emotions. It seems like at every moment there was someone making demands upon him whether the police, media or his relatives, or simply people demanding money, payment for services rendered. Money that Jeremy did not have immediate access to. Additionally, Jeremy suffered a series of shocks, not just one event, so he was in trauma and the process of denial over a long period of time. There was the initial murders; the hounding by Stan Jones and the betrayal by Julie Mugford; her accusations which must have seemed to Jeremy bizarre and false. Then his relatives turning against him; then being charged with murder; waiting to go to trial for a year. Throughout this period Jeremy would have been in the processes of ‘denial’ and ‘anger’ frequently. During this time people often turn to whatever coping mechanism they have to hand, for example, alcohol and drugs.
During the denial/anger phase people often resort to ‘quick fixes’, for example disposing of property in what may later appear an irrational or even callous manner. In Jeremy’s situation he needed cash to pay various bills and naturally sought the quickest solution, to sell some valuables. He was in no state of mind to appraise the situation rationally.
As a person accepts the reality of the loss and starts to ask themselves questions, they are unknowingly beginning the healing process. They become emotionally stronger and the denial begins to fade. But as a person proceeds all the feelings they were denying begin to surface.
Anger
Anger is a necessary stage of the healing process even though it may seem endless. By the time that Jeremy was arrested he would have been feeling emotions of anger towards many people, including the police who had assured him at the Farmhouse that ‘everything would be all right’. In the transcripts available of his various police interviews Jeremy displays remarkable self-control although he must have been extremely angry with the relentless nit-picking questioning by DS Stan Jones. The police interrogation tactic in the days before audio-recording of interviews with suspects was literally psychological torture of suspects, hour after hour of repetitious questioning; goading the suspect, insulting them, trying to provoke an angry response and a ‘confession’. Despite the mental torture Jeremy did not allow his anger to vent into an outburst against DS Jones; thus he held it inside his head.
Bargaining
Before a loss, it seems like you will do anything if only your loved one would be spared. “Please God, ” you bargain, “I will never be angry at my wife again if you’ll just let her live.” After a loss, bargaining may take the form of a temporary truce. “What if I devote the rest of my life to helping others. Then can I wake up and realize this has all been a bad dream?”
We become lost in a maze of “If only…” or “What if…” statements. We want life returned to what is was; we want our loved one restored. We want to go back in time: stop the accident from happening…if only, if only, if only. Guilt is often bargaining’s companion. The “if only” causes us to find fault in ourselves and what we “think” we could have done differently. We may even bargain with the pain. We will do anything not to feel the pain of this loss. We remain in the past, trying to negotiate our way out of the hurt. People often think of the stages as lasting weeks or months. They forget that the stages are responses to feelings that can last for minutes or hours as we flip in and out of one and then another. We do not enter and leave each individual stage in a linear fashion. We may feel one, then another and back again to the first one.
In Jeremy’s case he would have reflected time and again of what might have happened if he had not left a loaded rifle in the kitchen the night before the murders. Would Sheila have found a way to kill the family anyway? What if he had taken just two minutes to unload the gun magazine and store the gun? The police and prosecution returned to this subject at his trial and used it to condemn him.
Depression
After bargaining, our attention moves squarely into the present. Empty feelings present themselves, and grief enters our lives on a deeper level, deeper than we ever imagined was possible. This depressive stage feels as though it will last forever. It’s important to understand that this depression is not a sign of mental illness. It is the appropriate response to a great loss. We withdraw from life, left in a fog of intense sadness, wondering, perhaps, if there is any point in going on alone? Why go on at all? If grief is a process of healing, then depression is one of the many necessary steps along the way.
Acceptance
Acceptance is often confused with the notion of being “all right” or “OK” with what has happened. This is not the case. Most people don’t ever feel OK or all right about the loss of a loved one. This stage is about accepting the reality that our loved one is physically gone and recognizing that this new reality is the permanent reality. We will never like this reality or make it OK, but eventually we accept it. We learn to live with it. It is the new norm with which we must learn to live. We must try to live now in a world where our loved ones are missing. In resisting this new norm, at first many people want to maintain life as it was before a loved one died. In time, through bits and pieces of acceptance, however, we see that we cannot maintain the past intact. It has been forever changed and we must readjust. We must learn to reorganize roles, re-assign them to others or take them on ourselves.
https://sites.google.com/site/bambervregina/counselling-for-trauma


[1] Military assaults are often timed to take place around 3 a.m. because the body is at its lowest ebb
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/victim-support/support-at-the-scene/family-home-is-a-crime-ccene/media-intrusion/supplement-shock-trauma-response


I missed this comment by Mike Bill at the bottom of his article on the CT website


“[1] Military assaults are often timed to take place around 3 a.m. because the body is at its lowest ebb

Am guessing Bamber supporters haven’t factored this into the “Sheila did it” scenario?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 30, 2019, 05:39:06 PM
Where is Jeremy Bamber's usual twee Christmas message?... repeatedly looking forward to his imminent release in the New Year, which of course never materialises.

It seems to have been replaced by a sour grapes rant by his supporters club, who didn't get their own way with the producers of ITV's new drama when their pleas for it to be postponed, or worse still, cancelled altogether were ignored.

Not content with the spouting vitriol at ITV, they are now only too willing to fire a cheap shot at Carol Ann Lee, accusing her of perpetrating lies in her best-selling book.  Bamber has had his own way creating mischief and claiming BS for thirty-three years at the tax-payers expense to the tune of some £500,000, so it's only right in my opinion that CAL and Colin Caffell should set the record straight with the truth behind the White House Farm murders.

https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/12/kindness-strength-and-compassion-makes.html (https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/12/kindness-strength-and-compassion-makes.html)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 01, 2020, 05:53:36 PM
Patron Michelle Diskin Bates claims, ‘In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead

 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@mindful_vinyl
 and
@Bambertweets
I understand but I will watch-then I can point out every inaccuracy to my friends and others.
In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead. Jeremy’s conviction made no sense-it still doesn’t 😡
2:36 PM · Dec 31, 2019·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1212019723665387520
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 01, 2020, 06:30:35 PM
Patron Michelle Diskin Bates claims, ‘In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead

 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@mindful_vinyl
 and
@Bambertweets
I understand but I will watch-then I can point out every inaccuracy to my friends and others.
In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead. Jeremy’s conviction made no sense-it still doesn’t 😡
2:36 PM · Dec 31, 2019·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1212019723665387520 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1212019723665387520)
1982?!!!  What a load of absolute codswallop!!!... it was only reported on television and in newspapers the day afterwards, and the only inaccuracies will be in Michelle Bates' incessant mistaken twittering.  God save us from God-botherers.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 01, 2020, 09:26:09 PM
1982?!!!  What a load of absolute codswallop!!!... it was only reported on television and in newspapers the day afterwards, and the only inaccuracies will be in Michelle Bates' incessant mistaken twittering.  God save us from God-botherers.
Michelle Diskin Bates wrote the below in 2016 - suggesting the ‘1982’ is a mistake but the rest isn’t.  *&^^&

”I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer”


”It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.

Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.

Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.

My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.

Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 03, 2020, 06:20:46 PM
There was no overnight television, either in Britain or southern Ireland, in 1985. The earliest UK coverage began from late 1986 onwards, and then only sparsely.  Furthermore, television crews would have had no direct access to WHF because Pages Lane was closed to members of the Press, and the police would have revealed nothing to them of a seige taking place anyway.  Michelle Bates' twittering should be taken with a huge bucketful of salt.... gossip of the type which Bamber supporters are keen to accuse CAL of gleaning whilst gathering material for her book.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2020, 12:33:55 AM
Michelle Diskin Bates wrote the below in 2016 - suggesting the ‘1982’ is a mistake but the rest isn’t.  *&^^&

”I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer”


”It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.

Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.

Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.

My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.

Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html

That's hilarious!!  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on January 04, 2020, 11:47:31 AM
That's hilarious!!  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*


I wonder how much she got paid for it? And the whinge about Julie Mugford!!!!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 06, 2020, 12:23:54 PM
Hopefully all these people that have been active on social media 'campaigning' on JB's behalf will now realise that they've done more harm than good spreading inaccurate, irrelevant and misleading info. 

The whole circus of the 'official' website, bake-off's, graveside readings and Trudi Benjamin's ridiculous vlogs has done nothing other than attract attention from authors and production companies who see an opportunity to dramatise a family tragedy and make money. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 06, 2020, 12:25:14 PM
Where is Jeremy Bamber's usual twee Christmas message?... repeatedly looking forward to his imminent release in the New Year, which of course never materialises.

It seems to have been replaced by a sour grapes rant by his supporters club, who didn't get their own way with the producers of ITV's new drama when their pleas for it to be postponed, or worse still, cancelled altogether were ignored.

Not content with the spouting vitriol at ITV, they are now only too willing to fire a cheap shot at Carol Ann Lee, accusing her of perpetrating lies in her best-selling book.  Bamber has had his own way creating mischief and claiming BS for thirty-three years at the tax-payers expense to the tune of some £500,000, so it's only right in my opinion that CAL and Colin Caffell should set the record straight with the truth behind the White House Farm murders.

https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/12/kindness-strength-and-compassion-makes.html (https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/12/kindness-strength-and-compassion-makes.html)

I wonder if CC will donate any profits from his updated book to a childrens' charity in memory of the twins?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 06, 2020, 12:27:48 PM
I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the campaign team and will post a copy.   ?8)@)-)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on January 06, 2020, 12:36:44 PM
I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the campaign team and will post a copy.   ?8)@)-)

I wouldn't waste your time Holly.  Like Bamber they are stuck in a groove of their own making.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 12:48:30 PM
I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the campaign team and will post a copy.   ?8)@)-)

I don't think you will get a reply Holly, I wrote to them a couple of times re: inaccurate stuff on their site. Ended up getting a reply from Bamber who asked that I relay all questions through him.

They have really done themselves no good by slagging off a drama that hasn't even aired yet and taking personal pot shots at Carol Ann Lee. They need to look at their antics and that the carp that they have peddled in the past.

Good luck - oh and Happy New Year by the way.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on January 06, 2020, 12:58:36 PM
I don't think you will get a reply Holly, I wrote to them a couple of times re: inaccurate stuff on their site. Ended up getting a reply from Bamber who asked that I relay all questions through him.

They have really done themselves no good by slagging off a drama that hasn't even aired yet and taking personal pot shits at Carol Ann Lee. They need to look at their antics and that the carp that they have peddled in the past.

Good luck - oh and Happy New Year by the way.

The new ITV drama series will do Bamber no favours and he knows it. Maybe at last the public will learn what really went on at White House Farm and realise that Bamber's crusade against the family, the police and Julie Mugford is a futile fiasco.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 06, 2020, 03:50:23 PM
The new ITV drama series will do Bamber no favours and he knows it. Maybe at last the public will learn what really went on at White House Farm and realise that Bamber's crusade against the family, the police and Julie Mugford is a futile fiasco.

My quote meant to say 'pot 'shots' by the way  @)(++(*

I certainly hope the public will see through all of the crud peddled by the CT.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on January 06, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
I don't think you will get a reply Holly, I wrote to them a couple of times re: inaccurate stuff on their site. Ended up getting a reply from Bamber who asked that I relay all questions through him.

They have really done themselves no good by slagging off a drama that hasn't even aired yet and taking personal pot shots at Carol Ann Lee. They need to look at their antics and that the carp that they have peddled in the past.

Good luck - oh and Happy New Year by the way.

Who could ever forget "June's cakes were to die for"?


 %56&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 07, 2020, 07:27:42 AM
Who could ever forget "June's cakes were to die for"?


 %56&
... and Trudi's Hereford Mess... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnbBdgUkkI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnbBdgUkkI)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 07, 2020, 02:32:53 PM
I don't think you will get a reply Holly, I wrote to them a couple of times re: inaccurate stuff on their site. Ended up getting a reply from Bamber who asked that I relay all questions through him.

They have really done themselves no good by slagging off a drama that hasn't even aired yet and taking personal pot shots at Carol Ann Lee. They need to look at their antics and that the carp that they have peddled in the past.

Good luck - oh and Happy New Year by the way.

Yes I hope everyone here had a good Christmas and best wishes for the New Year!

I've been hanging out on the Madeleine McCann board.  Wow such hostility among the 'supporters' (of the McCanns) and 'sceptics'.  At least here we have some friendly banter regardless of our case related views!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 07, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Yes I hope everyone here had a good Christmas and best wishes for the New Year!

I've been hanging out on the Madeleine McCann board.  Wow such hostility among the 'supporters' (of the McCanns) and 'sceptics'.  At least here we have some friendly banter regardless of our case related views!
Shouldn't that read 'winding up' instead?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 01:53:12 PM
That's hilarious!!  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

If you think that’s hilarious.....



🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 02:16:06 PM
If you think that’s hilarious.....



🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665

Wonder how much longer the authorities will allow Jeremy Bamber to attempt to commit innocence fraud?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 03:46:52 PM
If you think that’s hilarious.....



🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665

Did ITV turn Michelle Diskin Bates down because they finally recognised her quite apparent lies https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html

Quote from: Nicholas link=topic=8


”It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.

Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.

Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.

My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.

Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
Did ITV turn Michelle Diskin Bates down because they finally recognised her quite apparent lies https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html

🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
41m
The comments under this (inflammatory) article need to be moderated, urgently. One is certainly Hate Speech, and could lead to violence. I do not understand why there wasn’t a moderator for this article in the first place. 😡 #WhiteHouseFarm
Jeremy Bamber’s deluded cheerleaders are a disgrace – he IS guilty of monstrous White House Farm...
THE scene that greeted the police was one of almost unimaginable, blood-soaked carnage. Once officers had entered the remote Essex farmhouse on the morning of 7 August 1985, they discovered five mu…
thesun.co.uk
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214927667394420741
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 08, 2020, 04:17:27 PM
If you think that’s hilarious.....



🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

 @)(++(* @)(++(*  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 07:30:57 PM
Michelle Diskin Bates wrote the below in 2016 - suggesting the ‘1982’ is a mistake but the rest isn’t.  *&^^&

”I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer”


”It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.

Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.

Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.

My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.

Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html

Night Network, Night Time and Night Shift were names given to the overnight (usually between 12 and 6 am) schedule of the ITV network in the United Kingdom. The first ITV company began 24-hour broadcasting in 1986, with all of the companies broadcasting through the night by the end of 1988. At first, individual companies created their own services, however before too long, many of the smaller ITV station began simulcasting or networking services from others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Network
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 11:26:37 PM
Here we go...


Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 08, 2020, 11:42:13 PM
Here we go...


Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546

Emilia Di Girolamo
“I don’t have a single doubt that Jeremy is innocent by Emilia Di Girolamo, Writer

During the eight years I worked in offender rehabilitation, I met many men and women convicted of murder and other very serious crimes. Some I met fleetingly, others I worked with intensively but in all cases, it was clear that the person before me was capable of committing the offence their prison file told me they had committed. Even the prisoners who claimed to be innocent victims of a ‘fit up’, were betrayed by aspects of their personality, demeanor, little signs indicative of guilt. Working inside, I quickly learned to trust my instincts. My instincts told me Jeremy was innocent even before I read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction is unsafe.

Why was I so certain? I have studied many cases of family annihilation and women who have killed their own children, something we as a nation found incomprehensible in 1985. My knowledge of these cases, and of the typical profile of a family annihilator, meant Jeremy’s case never felt quite right to me. Jeremy doesn’t fit the profile of a family annihilator, though sadly his sister Sheila did fit the profile of a mother capable of killing her children.

It is incredibly difficult to accept a woman is capable of killing her own children but the sad truth is, since the murder at White House Farm, many women have committed equally tragic and terrible murders. There have been literally thousands of cases worldwide though there are the ones that stick in your head – Susan Smith who drove her car into a lake in 1994 with her two children strapped inside, Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned her five children in the bath tub in 2001. In 2009, Rekha Kumari-Baker, stabbed her teenage daughters a total of 69 times. In 2010, Brit Lianne Smith, confessed to killing her two children in a Spanish hotel room. Just this month Theresa Riggi, pleaded guilty to killing her three children.

It’s disturbing and terrifying to the national psyche but it happens.

It is exactly what I believe happened that night at White House Farm. I believe Sheila, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, who had been directly challenged by her parents that very evening over her parenting skills, snapped, killing her children, her parents and then herself. It isn’t just my belief - there is overwhelming evidence that Sheila was alive inside the house, while Jeremy was outside with the police for several hours, before the police broke down the door. The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.

I don’t work in prison anymore. I work as a TV script writer and producer, writing television drama. Jeremy’s case is so bizarre, so loaded with mistakes, cover ups and conspiracies it’s way beyond anything I would dream up at my desk. But at the heart of this case is an innocent man who has been locked up far too long. The evidence is so overwhelming, the CCRC are going to look very stupid if they reject an appeal again.

My husband and I have come to know Jeremy well and we are one hundred percent certain the man we know is not capable of killing anyone. He is an extraordinary person who continues to work relentlessly to prove his innocence. He has a remarkable spirit, a rare strength of character and is a warm, compassionate and kind human being who I am deeply privileged to know.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on January 09, 2020, 12:54:50 AM
Emilia Di Girolamo
“I don’t have a single doubt that Jeremy is innocent by Emilia Di Girolamo, Writer

During the eight years I worked in offender rehabilitation, I met many men and women convicted of murder and other very serious crimes. Some I met fleetingly, others I worked with intensively but in all cases, it was clear that the person before me was capable of committing the offence their prison file told me they had committed. Even the prisoners who claimed to be innocent victims of a ‘fit up’, were betrayed by aspects of their personality, demeanor, little signs indicative of guilt. Working inside, I quickly learned to trust my instincts. My instincts told me Jeremy was innocent even before I read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction is unsafe.

Why was I so certain? I have studied many cases of family annihilation and women who have killed their own children, something we as a nation found incomprehensible in 1985. My knowledge of these cases, and of the typical profile of a family annihilator, meant Jeremy’s case never felt quite right to me. Jeremy doesn’t fit the profile of a family annihilator, though sadly his sister Sheila did fit the profile of a mother capable of killing her children.

It is incredibly difficult to accept a woman is capable of killing her own children but the sad truth is, since the murder at White House Farm, many women have committed equally tragic and terrible murders. There have been literally thousands of cases worldwide though there are the ones that stick in your head – Susan Smith who drove her car into a lake in 1994 with her two children strapped inside, Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned her five children in the bath tub in 2001. In 2009, Rekha Kumari-Baker, stabbed her teenage daughters a total of 69 times. In 2010, Brit Lianne Smith, confessed to killing her two children in a Spanish hotel room. Just this month Theresa Riggi, pleaded guilty to killing her three children.

It’s disturbing and terrifying to the national psyche but it happens.

It is exactly what I believe happened that night at White House Farm. I believe Sheila, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, who had been directly challenged by her parents that very evening over her parenting skills, snapped, killing her children, her parents and then herself. It isn’t just my belief - there is overwhelming evidence that Sheila was alive inside the house, while Jeremy was outside with the police for several hours, before the police broke down the door. The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.

I don’t work in prison anymore. I work as a TV script writer and producer, writing television drama. Jeremy’s case is so bizarre, so loaded with mistakes, cover ups and conspiracies it’s way beyond anything I would dream up at my desk. But at the heart of this case is an innocent man who has been locked up far too long. The evidence is so overwhelming, the CCRC are going to look very stupid if they reject an appeal again.

My husband and I have come to know Jeremy well and we are one hundred percent certain the man we know is not capable of killing anyone. He is an extraordinary person who continues to work relentlessly to prove his innocence. He has a remarkable spirit, a rare strength of character and is a warm, compassionate and kind human being who I am deeply privileged to know.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo

Bamber should receive an academy award for hoodwinking these gullible women.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 09, 2020, 07:22:48 AM
Emilia Di Girolamo
“I don’t have a single doubt that Jeremy is innocent by Emilia Di Girolamo, Writer

During the eight years I worked in offender rehabilitation, I met many men and women convicted of murder and other very serious crimes. Some I met fleetingly, others I worked with intensively but in all cases, it was clear that the person before me was capable of committing the offence their prison file told me they had committed. Even the prisoners who claimed to be innocent victims of a ‘fit up’, were betrayed by aspects of their personality, demeanor, little signs indicative of guilt. Working inside, I quickly learned to trust my instincts. My instincts told me Jeremy was innocent even before I read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction is unsafe.

Why was I so certain? I have studied many cases of family annihilation and women who have killed their own children, something we as a nation found incomprehensible in 1985. My knowledge of these cases, and of the typical profile of a family annihilator, meant Jeremy’s case never felt quite right to me. Jeremy doesn’t fit the profile of a family annihilator, though sadly his sister Sheila did fit the profile of a mother capable of killing her children.

It is incredibly difficult to accept a woman is capable of killing her own children but the sad truth is, since the murder at White House Farm, many women have committed equally tragic and terrible murders. There have been literally thousands of cases worldwide though there are the ones that stick in your head – Susan Smith who drove her car into a lake in 1994 with her two children strapped inside, Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned her five children in the bath tub in 2001. In 2009, Rekha Kumari-Baker, stabbed her teenage daughters a total of 69 times. In 2010, Brit Lianne Smith, confessed to killing her two children in a Spanish hotel room. Just this month Theresa Riggi, pleaded guilty to killing her three children.

It’s disturbing and terrifying to the national psyche but it happens.

It is exactly what I believe happened that night at White House Farm. I believe Sheila, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, who had been directly challenged by her parents that very evening over her parenting skills, snapped, killing her children, her parents and then herself. It isn’t just my belief - there is overwhelming evidence that Sheila was alive inside the house, while Jeremy was outside with the police for several hours, before the police broke down the door. The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.

I don’t work in prison anymore. I work as a TV script writer and producer, writing television drama. Jeremy’s case is so bizarre, so loaded with mistakes, cover ups and conspiracies it’s way beyond anything I would dream up at my desk. But at the heart of this case is an innocent man who has been locked up far too long. The evidence is so overwhelming, the CCRC are going to look very stupid if they reject an appeal again.

My husband and I have come to know Jeremy well and we are one hundred percent certain the man we know is not capable of killing anyone. He is an extraordinary person who continues to work relentlessly to prove his innocence. He has a remarkable spirit, a rare strength of character and is a warm, compassionate and kind human being who I am deeply privileged to know.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo
How does she explain the lack of gunfire heard by the police outside the house if sheila was still alive inside?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 09, 2020, 09:15:13 AM
If you think that’s hilarious.....



🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665

Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@ProfLizYardley
 
@melville72
 and
@ITV
#WhiteHouseFarm I Have researched this case. You will find all the information you need to make an informed decision http://Jeremy-Bamber.co.uk Please take the time to read up before jumping to conclusions, it would be appreciated.

Why does Michelle Diskin Bates promote her own book in her brothers case yet in the Bamber case not mention Colin Caffell or Carol Ann Lees books?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 09, 2020, 09:21:01 AM
Here we go...


Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546

Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
Writing True Crime you have the most enormous responsibility, to the victims, the surviving family and even the accused. It can be overwhelming. But I cannot imagine why any writer or producer would ever turn down new evidence. #WhiteHouseFarm
Jeremy Bamber begs ITV to postpone White House Farm after claiming ‘new evidence proves he didn’t...
LAWYERS for Jeremy Bamber begged ITV bosses to postpone a new show about the White House Farm killings because they claim new evidence proves he didn’t murder his family. The convicted murderer, 58…
thesun.co.uk
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826759058862080
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 09, 2020, 09:50:21 AM
Bamber campaign calls on ITV to pull ‘dangerous drama’ by Jon Robins 9th Jan 2020

Supporters for the convicted killer Jeremy Bamber attempted to postpone the airing of a new drama based on the notorious case. As reported last month his legal team have issued judicial review proceedings against the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) over a failure to disclose evidence -see here.

They claim that the evidence could undermine Bamber’s 1986 conviction for the murders of his adoptive parents, sister and her six-year-old twin sons, thus rendering his whole life sentence a miscarriage of justice.

The first episode of the six-part ITV drama White House Farm aired last night. The Jeremy Bamber campaign accused the broadcaster of treating the tragedy ‘a money pot… reaping in millions of pounds from a family tragedy that is still unresolved.’

The actor who plays Bamber, Freddie Fox spoke told the Radio Times he decide not meet the prisoner who is serving a whole life tariff. ‘It was probably not the right decision for me [to contact Bamber] because the Jeremy Bamber I’m playing is a combination of the Jeremy Bamber that I’ve created as an actor, in my imagination, and factual, assiduous factual research. And he’s a different man now, it’s 35 years on, and he maintains his innocence.’

According to Bamber’s lawyer, Mark Newby said that they were concerned that that the drama would ‘place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS’.

‘But more importantly we’re looking after that to get this case back before the Court of Appeal. Programmes such as this don’t just get aired and disappear they stay in the mind of the public and are available online. The actor playing Bamber in interviews refers to creating him from his imagination yet there is a danger the general public will assimilate the real Jeremy Bamber as being this actor.’

He points out that ITV declined any contact with the campaign adding: ‘It is just a dangerous drama to broadcast at this time which is why we invited them just to delay it, whilst matters proceed before the High Court.’
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bamber-campaign-calls-on-itv-to-pull-dangerous-drama/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 09, 2020, 09:54:52 AM
Bamber campaign calls on ITV to pull ‘dangerous drama’ by Jon Robins 9th Jan 2020

Supporters for the convicted killer Jeremy Bamber attempted to postpone the airing of a new drama based on the notorious case. As reported last month his legal team have issued judicial review proceedings against the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) over a failure to disclose evidence -see here.

They claim that the evidence could undermine Bamber’s 1986 conviction for the murders of his adoptive parents, sister and her six-year-old twin sons, thus rendering his whole life sentence a miscarriage of justice.

The first episode of the six-part ITV drama White House Farm aired last night. The Jeremy Bamber campaign accused the broadcaster of treating the tragedy ‘a money pot… reaping in millions of pounds from a family tragedy that is still unresolved.’

The actor who plays Bamber, Freddie Fox spoke told the Radio Times he decide not meet the prisoner who is serving a whole life tariff. ‘It was probably not the right decision for me [to contact Bamber] because the Jeremy Bamber I’m playing is a combination of the Jeremy Bamber that I’ve created as an actor, in my imagination, and factual, assiduous factual research. And he’s a different man now, it’s 35 years on, and he maintains his innocence.’

According to Bamber’s lawyer, Mark Newby said that they were concerned that that the drama would ‘place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS’.

‘But more importantly we’re looking after that to get this case back before the Court of Appeal. Programmes such as this don’t just get aired and disappear they stay in the mind of the public and are available online. The actor playing Bamber in interviews refers to creating him from his imagination yet there is a danger the general public will assimilate the real Jeremy Bamber as being this actor.’

He points out that ITV declined any contact with the campaign adding: ‘It is just a dangerous drama to broadcast at this time which is why we invited them just to delay it, whilst matters proceed before the High Court.’
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bamber-campaign-calls-on-itv-to-pull-dangerous-drama/

Cognitive dissonance is quite apparent.

First off a ‘fictional narrative’ has been in the public domain since day dot, put there by ‘puppet master’ Jeremy Bamber.

And what have Mark Newby and Bamber supporters used if not their imagination to buy into his narrative?

Being a psychopath (As confirmed by a psychiatrist for his defence team pre trial) Jeremy Bamber would have honed his acting skills over the years in order to fake a range of emotions.



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 09, 2020, 10:08:41 AM
According to Bamber’s lawyer, Mark Newby said that they were concerned that that the drama would ‘place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS’.

I don’t believe Mark Newby is suffering from cognitive dissonance nor do I believe he believes in Bamber’s claims of innocence.

He chose to represent Jeremy Bamber and could have declined the request but I think the alleged disclosure issues in this case maybe behind Mark Newbys involvement, especially in light of Kevin Nunns rejection by the Supreme Court. https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2012-0175-judgment.pdf

National Training Conference on Investigating Miscarriages of Justice 2018
"Mark Newby, solicitor advocate, possibly the UK's foremost criminal appeal lawyer and a long term active supporter of innocence projects MJRCs, will talk about his recent successes and the technicalities of putting together an appeal case.
http://events.manchester.ac.uk/event/event:v7f-jdftuiyz-ea4yoz/national-training-conference-on-investigating-miscarriages-of-justice-2018

Tactics or technicalities won’t overturn Jeremy Bambers murder convictions

Referring to ITV’s White House Farm as a ‘dangerous drama’ shows a clear lack of comprehension for psychopathic individuals like Jeremy Bamber and no amount of reverse psychology or any type of persuasive technique will make an iota of difference to those of us who recognise this mass murderer for what he is
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 09, 2020, 11:54:10 AM
Roch Reply #957 on: Today at 11:26 AM
Well RJ, I may change my mind and watch it. But I think as the episodes go on, it's got to look more like he did it. If this were not the case, and they wanted to be more neutral, they would have cooperated with the defence. I should add, I feel heartfelt sorry for Colin. He believes what he believes. But I think that while he already knew Jeremy was no angel, he has been sold a perpetrator by the police and relatives. If it was ever proven in a court of law that it could not have been JB, how will Colin cope?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10009.msg469353.html#msg469353


Foolish and disrespectful of Roch (And/or others) to suggest Colin Caffell doesn’t have a mind of his own and hasn’t looked at all possibilities  *&^^&

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 09, 2020, 12:18:13 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1215030357348757504 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1215030357348757504)
The AGA cooker was cream-coloured not red, and it didn't have any scratches on it!!! @)(++(*

So much for Michelle Bates pointing out inaccuracies!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2020, 01:07:57 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1215030357348757504 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1215030357348757504)
The AGA cooker was cream-coloured not red, and it didn't have any scratches on it!!! @)(++(*

So much for Michelle Bates pointing out inaccuracies!

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 09, 2020, 04:17:57 PM
Roch Reply #957 on: Today at 11:26 AM
Well RJ, I may change my mind and watch it. But I think as the episodes go on, it's got to look more like he did it. If this were not the case, and they wanted to be more neutral, they would have cooperated with the defence. I should add, I feel heartfelt sorry for Colin. He believes what he believes. But I think that while he already knew Jeremy was no angel, he has been sold a perpetrator by the police and relatives. If it was ever proven in a court of law that it could not have been JB, how will Colin cope?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10009.msg469353.html#msg469353


Foolish and disrespectful of Roch (And/or others) to suggest Colin Caffell doesn’t have a mind of his own and hasn’t looked at all possibilities  *&^^&

Would be interested to hear how Roch and other Bamber supporters think it would ever be possible to prove ‘in a court of law that it could not have been JB’

For a start, the court of appeal look at whether or not a conviction is safe in law not at actual factual guilt or innocence.

And given the volume of freudian slips and contradictions made by Jeremy Bamber over the years I fail to see how anything he has to say would stand up to scrutiny.

There’s been no new objective evidence for over 3 decades; the public have only ever witnessed Bamber chancing his luck and nothing appears to have changed - other than his legal team.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 11, 2020, 05:48:20 PM
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
All people are asking for is for the full disclosure of everything and all evidence and exhibits to allow a thorough investigation (akin to a public enquiry) into #JeremyBamber claim of innocence to try to determine its truthfulness or otherwise. Why is this such a problem?

Michael Naughton appears to be calling for a public enquiry in the Bamber case yet buried his head in the sand over Simon Halls case (After his guilt was exposed)



William Beck
@WullieBeck
Jan 9
Replying to
@EmpowerInnocent
Why was the rifle removed before photos were taken.
Was it because it did not show any silencer attached ?

And seems William Beck is unaware the silencer was found under the stairs
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 04:57:17 PM
I don’t believe Mark Newby is suffering from cognitive dissonance nor do I believe he believes in Bamber’s claims of innocence.

He chose to represent Jeremy Bamber and could have declined the request but I think the alleged disclosure issues in this case maybe behind Mark Newbys involvement, especially in light of Kevin Nunns rejection by the Supreme Court. https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2012-0175-judgment.pdf

Tactics or technicalities won’t overturn Jeremy Bambers murder convictions

Referring to ITV’s White House Farm as a ‘dangerous drama’ shows a clear lack of comprehension for psychopathic individuals like Jeremy Bamber and no amount of reverse psychology or any type of persuasive technique will make an iota of difference to those of us who recognise this mass murderer for what he is

Jeremy Bamber to Daisy, ‘everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them’

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3187.msg119162#msg119162
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 05:28:01 PM
Jeremy Bamber to Daisy, ‘everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them’

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3187.msg119162#msg119162

Although it can be obvious to those around them, people in cults often don’t realize what they have become a part of. Psychologist Dr. Margaret Thaler Singer spent most of her career studying the psychology of cults and brainwashing. She found that most people enter a cult willingly, without realizing the power it is bound to have over them. Singer theorizes that this is partly because some people are more willing to see the perceived benefits than they are the potential dangers. She also mentions that many people assume cults are only religious, though in truth, cults can also be political groups, lifestyle groups, or business groups.
https://www.onlinepsychologydegree.info/what-to-know-about-the-psychology-of-cults/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 12, 2020, 05:44:20 PM
So that's what happened to Simon McKay.  Mark Newby is in for a shock when Bamber kicks him into touch when he's of no further use...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on January 12, 2020, 05:49:28 PM
Although it can be obvious to those around them, people in cults often don’t realize what they have become a part of. Psychologist Dr. Margaret Thaler Singer spent most of her career studying the psychology of cults and brainwashing. She found that most people enter a cult willingly, without realizing the power it is bound to have over them. Singer theorizes that this is partly because some people are more willing to see the perceived benefits than they are the potential dangers. She also mentions that many people assume cults are only religious, though in truth, cults can also be political groups, lifestyle groups, or business groups...................................
https://www.onlinepsychologydegree.info/what-to-know-about-the-psychology-of-cults/


..........................and forums @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 05:55:17 PM

..........................and forums @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

 8((()*/

’Cults maintain their power by promoting an “us vs. them” mentality.

‘Cults prove powerful because they are able to successfully isolate members from their former, non-cult lives. One of the ways cult leaders achieve this is to convince their followers that they are superior to those not in the cult. This “us vs. them” mentality ultimately leads to cult members isolating themselves socially from friends and family. They replace those relationships with new ones inside the cult
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 06:00:44 PM
So that's what happened to Simon McKay.  Mark Newby is in for a shock when Bamber kicks him into touch when he's of no further use...

Don’t you think Mark Newby is already part of the ‘cult’ that is the ‘wrongful conviction arena?’

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 06:21:27 PM
So that's what happened to Simon McKay.  Mark Newby is in for a shock when Bamber kicks him into touch when he's of no further use...

Doubt Mark Newby will be shocked when Bamber ‘kicks him into touch’ suspect most solicitors see this sort of behaviour as part & parcel of the work they do.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 06:33:30 PM
Jeremy Bamber to Daisy, ‘everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them’

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3187.msg119162#msg119162

Julie Mugford’s interview is worth listening to again @ around 16.30 below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw)

She states,

He used to say things to shock people”

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 08:07:37 PM
Julie Mugford’s interview is worth listening to again @ around 16.30 below

Quote
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw

When asked why she didn’t go to the police before, she appears to me to be describing a state of cognitive dissonance


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 12, 2020, 08:22:23 PM
When asked why she didn’t go to the police before, she appears to me to be describing a state of cognitive dissonance

This is supported by the fact she stated @ around 24.17

Quote
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw

when asked if she still had feelings for Bamber,

‘I feel something for him but I just think he’s a very sad man’

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 14, 2020, 05:35:07 PM
Don’t you think Mark Newby is already part of the ‘cult’ that is the ‘wrongful conviction arena?’

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507

Remember this from Simon McKay http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=305.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 15, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
Bamber supporter Mark Williams Thomas’s contribution https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/uploads/images/Bamber-Innocent-or-Guilty.pdf

Excerpts (by Mark Williams Thomas):
It is however this simple narrative that undermines the whole case, when carefully analysed and considered against what is known now. The Judge, quite correctly, stated that the murders were either carried out by Sheila Cafell or Jeremy, thereby ruling out a third-party involvement.
Given the brutal and frantic nature of the murders at the farm house it would be fair to assess that the killings took place when the killer was in some kind of frenzied or psychotic state. So, what was the mental background of the two suspects? Jeremy had no history of psychosis or mental illness, no drug or alcohol dependence, in fact Jeremy’s mental health both then and now is considered stable and balanced.

“However, when one asks the question, based solely on personalities and mental state, who had the present behaviour capable of carrying out this massacre, the answer for all to see is a simple one, it has to be Sheila.

“Photographs are vital in this case. In court the evidence given was that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila’s feet, but this was not the case. From the photographs I have in my possession blood spatter is evident on her left foot,
 which would be entirely consistent with her having trodden in blood. This would suggest that a murder had been committed whilst she was alive and wandering around





Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 15, 2020, 06:33:40 PM
Bamber supporter Mark Williams Thomas’s contribution https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/uploads/images/Bamber-Innocent-or-Guilty.pdf

Excerpts (by Mark Williams Thomas):
It is however this simple narrative that undermines the whole case, when carefully analysed and considered against what is known now. The Judge, quite correctly, stated that the murders were either carried out by Sheila Cafell or Jeremy, thereby ruling out a third-party involvement.
Given the brutal and frantic nature of the murders at the farm house it would be fair to assess that the killings took place when the killer was in some kind of frenzied or psychotic state. So, what was the mental background of the two suspects? Jeremy had no history of psychosis or mental illness, no drug or alcohol dependence, in fact Jeremy’s mental health both then and now is considered stable and balanced.

“However, when one asks the question, based solely on personalities and mental state, who had the present behaviour capable of carrying out this massacre, the answer for all to see is a simple one, it has to be Sheila.

“Photographs are vital in this case. In court the evidence given was that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila’s feet, but this was not the case. From the photographs I have in my possession blood spatter is evident on her left foot,
 which would be entirely consistent with her having trodden in blood. This would suggest that a murder had been committed whilst she was alive and wandering around

Surely forensic examination of the bullets can tell whether or not the bullets used on Sheila went through a silencer or not?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2020, 09:59:48 PM
Surely forensic examination of the bullets can tell whether or not the bullets used on Sheila went through a silencer or not?

You would think so but much of the ballistics was handled by a Malcolm Fletcher who worked for a Home Office lab (prosecution) who told the court at trial his relevant experience included "A small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy". 

In theory the defense should be in a position to carry out further forensic tests on the bullets but all trial exhibits excluding the rifle and silencer, were destroyed many moons ago.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 16, 2020, 03:42:42 AM
Surely forensic examination of the bullets can tell whether or not the bullets used on Sheila went through a silencer or not?

Apparently, a suppressor doesn't mark the bullet.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 16, 2020, 05:28:35 AM
You would think so but much of the ballistics was handled by a Malcolm Fletcher who worked for a Home Office lab (prosecution) who told the court at trial his relevant experience included "A small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy". 

In theory the defense should be in a position to carry out further forensic tests on the bullets but all trial exhibits excluding the rifle and silencer, were destroyed many moons ago.
Here we go again!... pull your perennial canard out of the hat.  Malcolm Fletcher had a damn sight more experience of arms and ammunition than you.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Here we go again!... pull your perennial canard out of the hat.  Malcolm Fletcher had a damn sight more experience of arms and ammunition than you.

But unlike MF I wasn't considered an 'expert' at JB's trial providing judge and jury with misleading info.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
Apparently, a suppressor doesn't mark the bullet.

I think it mostly does but in this case apparently not!  We will never know since all exhibits have been destroyed against all protocols.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 16, 2020, 04:13:14 PM
Bamber supporter Mark Williams Thomas’s contribution https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/uploads/images/Bamber-Innocent-or-Guilty.pdf (https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/uploads/images/Bamber-Innocent-or-Guilty.pdf)

Excerpts (by Mark Williams Thomas):
It is however this simple narrative that undermines the whole case, when carefully analysed and considered against what is known now. The Judge, quite correctly, stated that the murders were either carried out by Sheila Cafell or Jeremy, thereby ruling out a third-party involvement.
Given the brutal and frantic nature of the murders at the farm house it would be fair to assess that the killings took place when the killer was in some kind of frenzied or psychotic state. So, what was the mental background of the two suspects? Jeremy had no history of psychosis or mental illness, no drug or alcohol dependence, in fact Jeremy’s mental health both then and now is considered stable and balanced.

“However, when one asks the question, based solely on personalities and mental state, who had the present behaviour capable of carrying out this massacre, the answer for all to see is a simple one, it has to be Sheila.

“Photographs are vital in this case. In court the evidence given was that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila’s feet, but this was not the case. From the photographs I have in my possession blood spatter is evident on her left foot,
 which would be entirely consistent with her having trodden in blood. This would suggest that a murder had been committed whilst she was alive and wandering around

Utterly incredible and astonishing!   How can this self-styled "detective" get facts of this case so wrong?!

From the belief that Nevill had been shot six times in the head, when he had received only four bullets there, as well as two to his jaw, one to his left shoulder and one to his left arm... to the utterly ludicrous assertion that Detective Superintendent Mike Ainsley thought Sheila Caffell was the culprit, whereas in fact he was a leader of the team which actually nailed and jailed Bamber!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Snowgirl on January 16, 2020, 04:23:01 PM
Utterly incredible and astonishing!   How can this self-styled "detective" get facts of this case so wrong?!

From the belief that Nevill had been shot six times in the head, when he had received only four bullets there, as well as two to his jaw, one to his left shoulder and one to his left arm... to the utterly ludicrous assertion that Detective Superintendent Mike Ainsley thought Sheila Caffell was the culprit, whereas in fact he was a leader of the team which actually nailed and jailed Bamber!
He’s got more than this wrong in fact .Recently said a CCTV camera would have caught Madeleine McCann’s abductor if it hadn’t been switched off.  In fact the tape had been wiped   by the time detectives got to it .



McCann’
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 16, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
He’s got more than this wrong in fact .Recently said a CCTV camera would have caught Madeleine McCann’s abductor if it hadn’t been switched off.  In fact the tape had been wiped   by the time detectives got to it .



McCann’

Re Mark Williams Thomas

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6033123/Documentary-maker-offered-sell-names-DJ-Jonathan-Kings-child-sex-abuse-victims.html

‘A former police officer in the Jonathan King case who is now a TV documentary reporter offered to sell the names of the pop mogul’s victims, according to a judge.
…But yesterday his professional reputation was called into question after Judge Deborah Taylor delivered a withering assessment of his previous work for Surrey Police on the King case. before he left the force in October 2000 Mr Williams-Thomas was the detective who interviewed the first man to accuse King of sexual assault. He [i.e. Williams-Thomas] was subsequently accused – and acquitted – of blackmail in an unrelated case.
Yesterday the judge said:

‘During the investigation into that offence a document was found on his computer offering for sale names and introductions to victims of Mr King.’

…The judge added that it had been suggested

‘there was deliberate concealment of his previous prosecution and of the documents indicating attempts to gain financial advantage from selling details of Mr King’s case’.
https://barthsnotes.com/2018/08/09/jonathan-king-and-mark-williams-thomas-some-media-notes/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 16, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
Utterly incredible and astonishing!   How can this self-styled "detective" get facts of this case so wrong?!

From the belief that Nevill had been shot six times in the head, when he had received only four bullets there, as well as two to his jaw, one to his left shoulder and one to his left arm... to the utterly ludicrous assertion that Detective Superintendent Mike Ainsley thought Sheila Caffell was the culprit, whereas in fact he was a leader of the team which actually nailed and jailed Bamber!

Mark Williams Thomas seems only interested in ££££££££££
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 16, 2020, 05:32:37 PM
Don’t you think Mark Newby is already part of the ‘cult’ that is the ‘wrongful conviction arena?’

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507

According to Joe Stone QC who has been instructed by Bamber https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/joe-stone-qc-instructed-jeremy-bamber-launches-court-challenge-cps-withholding-evidence

Unwinnable” Cases Can Be Won
‘The so called "Unwinnable cases" are won on the basis of sound trial preparation, a genuine proactive defence and incisive cross-examination on the live issue at trial. So many Crown Court defences fail at trial because these 3 golden rules are simply not observed for a whole raft of reasons.

It is critical for any trial advocate to get a focussed DCS (defence case statement) out at an early stage which seeks core secondary disclosure documents. DCS with bland denials and endless shopping lists of items are all too commonplace and rarely effective. A good DCS should be a weapon in the defence armoury that should immediately put the prosecution on the backfoot not one that has the CPS lawyer yawning and reaching for a cup of coffee.

A sound case strategy, knowledge of the best experts to instruct for the specific case facts, a clear understanding of crime scenes (via views), a detailed understanding of evidence, early case conferences with clients/experts to identify the weaknesses on both prosecution/defence sides are all essential for the advocate that is truly interested in securing an acquittal for the client.

Defences which are put together as reactive last minute affairs are rarely robust and never immune from effective prosecution cross-examination. The defence should be the party that truly sets the parameters in which the trial is fought not the other way around.

If these rules are truly adhered to experience shows again and again (that like the Sonnex case) the unwinnable case on paper becomes the winnable case at trial. Those who ignore them (for whatever reason) will inevitably reduce the probability of an acquittal.

(Joe Stone QC - Doughty Street Chambers)
http://www.mojuk.org.uk/MOJUK%202015/Joe%20Stone.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 16, 2020, 06:58:00 PM
Don’t you think Mark Newby is already part of the ‘cult’ that is the ‘wrongful conviction arena?’

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507

Jeremy Bamber quite clearly presents with a pathological need for attention, though unlike Ian Lawless he’s yet to confess to the murders

Lawless was convicted of murder after making various "confessions" to third parties, including regulars in a pub and a taxi driver,
His conviction was later ruled unsafe after fresh medical evidence revealed he had a "pathological need for attention".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-21204099

Ian Lawless was represented by Mark Newby. More on Ian Lawless here https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/grimsby-town-fan-who-cleared-1187985

‘Friend’ of Jeremy Bamber Michael O’Brien of the so called Cardiff Newsagent 3 had his murder conviction quashed alongside his co defendants based on similar ‘fresh evidence’ to that in the Ian Lawless case.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 17, 2020, 03:58:20 PM
Andrew_S_Hatton
@Andrew_S_Hatton
This utterly convinces me that the #WhiteHouseFarm TV Drama is an attempt to keep #JeremyBamber in #prison & it seems #ITV was duped, they best commission a new documentary to examine the evidence available & report what it is claimed is withheld
https://mobile.twitter.com/Andrew_S_Hatton/status/1218195029233106945
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 17, 2020, 05:23:08 PM
Apparently, a suppressor doesn't mark the bullet.
If that is the case then why do the police say a silencer was used?  Sorry, I realise this is Bamber 101 to most of you.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 18, 2020, 03:23:36 PM
Yes I understand what you are saying but imo Bambers burnt all his bridges as have the CT and the blue forum

So why did solicitor advocate Mark Newby really decide to take up the ‘disclosure issue’ in the Jeremy Bamber case?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 18, 2020, 03:27:45 PM

I added ".......at the moment" purely because I've no idea what MIGHT happen in the future, Steph. With the CT giving their blessing to sick and thoughtless schemes, a forum who upholds him as a cross between Little Lord Fauntleroy and the Archangel Gabriel, and a legal team that seems to be struggling to put together anything cohesive, who knows what tomorrow may hold?

“Disclosure problems still exist in more than half of all prosecutions, review finds”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/09/disclosure-problems-still-exist-half-prosecutions-review-finds/

“Untold damage' caused by failure to properly disclose evidence in court cases, review finds”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-cases-evidence-collapse-liam-allan-disclosure-review-damage-police-prosecutors-a8635896.html


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 18, 2020, 06:36:40 PM
Jeremy Bamber quite clearly presents with a pathological need for attention, though unlike Ian Lawless he’s yet to confess to the murders

Lawless was convicted of murder after making various "confessions" to third parties, including regulars in a pub and a taxi driver,
His conviction was later ruled unsafe after fresh medical evidence revealed he had a "pathological need for attention".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-21204099

Ian Lawless was represented by Mark Newby. More on Ian Lawless here https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/grimsby-town-fan-who-cleared-1187985

‘Friend’ of Jeremy Bamber Michael O’Brien of the so called Cardiff Newsagent 3 had his murder conviction quashed alongside his co defendants based on similar ‘fresh evidence’ to that in the Ian Lawless case.

Dr Michael Naughton states here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VBzW5_7xtI4 @ around 10.10

“I’ve written several articles about harm”

“.....we don’t won’t errors because they are harmful, there is a progressive dynamic element to errors, if you are open to embracing the error and learning from it”

No mention of the Simon Hall case no mention of ‘innocent fraud’ instead he refers to the Michael O’Brien case stating,

“it’s changed English law 5 times”

So what impact do these law changes have on the British criminal justice system and the factually innocent? which I don’t believe Michael O’Brien to be

Michael O’Brien stated earlier this year,

We should also not forget the victims of crime in my case the killer is still free after 31 years and that bothers me just as much as my wrongful conviction.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/mobrien1967/status/1123860684058562561[/color]

Interesting how Michael O’Brien tells us ‘we should also not forget the victims of crime’ than focuses on ‘the killer’

Are these his unconscious thoughts perhaps? Is ‘the killer’ to whom Michael O’Brien refers the ‘victim’ he has become?

Who murdered Philip Saunders if Michael O'Brien, Darren Hall and Ellis Sherwood allegedly didn’t and who’s investigating ‘innocence fraud?’

Why does Michael O’Brien support Jeremy Bamber? What’s his motivation?

Jeremy bamber has served 33 years in prison for a crime he did not commit join me tomorrow at 8pm on Richie  Allen show to hear of the injustice done to him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mobrien1967/status/962975190274715649?lang=en-gb[/color]
link to the above interview https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/richieallen/episodes/2018-02-13T13_09_38-08_00 (Starts at approx 35.00)

I’m of the opinion it’s a smokescreen and Michael O’Brien does what he does in the hope the truth won’t be uncovered about the identity of Philip Saunders factual murderer/s and of the ‘innocent fraud’ being perpetuated in the UK

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 20, 2020, 11:00:19 PM
Patron Michelle Diskin Bates claims, ‘In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead

 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@mindful_vinyl
 and
@Bambertweets
I understand but I will watch-then I can point out every inaccuracy to my friends and others.
In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead. Jeremy’s conviction made no sense-it still doesn’t 😡
2:36 PM · Dec 31, 2019·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1212019723665387520

Other evidence shows windows at the farm may have been opened after 3.30am and lights turned off between 4am and 5am.

"Mr Newby said: “Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.

These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566

Dear dear dear  *&^^&

Mark Newby
@MarkNewbyqsj
35m
ITV are scheduled to broadcast a drama series on Jeremy Bamber “White House Farm” . This is our statement on behalf of our client , in view of pending judicial review proceedings there will be no further comment
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkNewbyqsj/status/1206867123118706693

We will not be making any further comment in view of the ongoing case before the Court .
https://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/news/2019/12/jeremy-bamber-itv-drama-statement
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 20, 2020, 11:14:59 PM
Other evidence shows windows at the farm may have been opened after 3.30am and lights turned off between 4am and 5am.

"Mr Newby said: “Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.

These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566

Dear dear dear  *&^^&

Matthew Young
@MatthewYoung7
EXCL Jeremy Bamber claims from his prison cell that new evidence proves there was life inside White House Farm while he was stood outside with police https://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566
https://mobile.twitter.com/MatthewYoung7/status/1219387121326329857
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 21, 2020, 06:02:12 AM
Matthew Young
@MatthewYoung7
EXCL Jeremy Bamber claims from his prison cell that new evidence proves there was life inside White House Farm while he was stood outside with police https://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566 (https://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566)
https://mobile.twitter.com/MatthewYoung7/status/1219387121326329857 (https://mobile.twitter.com/MatthewYoung7/status/1219387121326329857)
More like old damp squibs which burn themselves out than explosive new evidence.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 21, 2020, 10:55:44 AM
More like old damp squibs which burn themselves out than explosive new evidence.

According to Scott Lomax

SC Lomax
@SCLomax
58m
It's a great article with important new evidence that is capable of belief, was not seen by the trial jury, and has the potential to cast doubt on the conviction. The evidence meets the criteria for a referral to the Court of Appeal.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SCLomax/status/1219558364528750592
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 21, 2020, 01:11:46 PM
Other evidence shows windows at the farm may have been opened after 3.30am and lights turned off between 4am and 5am.

"Mr Newby said: “Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.

These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566

Dear dear dear  *&^^&

Solicitor advocate Mark Newby stated,

Dec 2019
in view of pending judicial review proceedings there will be no further comment”

&

Jan 2020
We will not be making any further comment in view of the ongoing case before the Court “

and now he’s apparently saying,

“Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.

These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”


Messy
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 21, 2020, 01:22:42 PM
If you propagate your deceitful message long enough and loud enough, the gullible will begin to believe it...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 21, 2020, 01:34:31 PM
If you propagate your deceitful message long enough and loud enough, the gullible will begin to believe it...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html)

As Johns Collins said,


There seems to be an honesty deficit within the innocence movement. Exactly how prevalent fraudulent or improper tactics are used to secure exonerations can only be speculated.
Most journalists don’t consider innocent activists to be the subject of scrutiny, but rather an opportunity for social activism.
Much time has passed since the right questions should have been asked by the right people
.”



https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZEOwDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA273&lpg=PA273&dq=the+innocence+audit+john+collins&source=bl&ots=fhmDu8plLg&sig=ACfU3U09uGshMgCx69Hb4-AliIFb6pDXfA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7t4W45ZTnAhWuUhUIHR_kCc4Q6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20innocence%20audit%20john%20collins&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 21, 2020, 01:37:14 PM
If you propagate your deceitful message long enough and loud enough, the gullible will begin to believe it...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html)

I’ve no doubts whatsoever this is a clear example of ‘innocent fraud.’

The question is are all those involved doing it knowingly or unknowingly?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 21, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
I’ve no doubts whatsoever this is a clear example of ‘innocent fraud.’

12 examples of ‘innocent fraud’ can be seen on Jeremy Bamber’s campaign website here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/-sheila

Meaning of ‘Innocent fraud’ in the above context

‘a lie or a half-truth that, because it suits the needs or views of those promoting the propaganda, is presented as fact. After much repetition, the fiction becomes common wisdom. ‘It is innocent because most who employ it are without conscious guilt,’ (Galbraith wrote in 1999*) ‘It is fraud because it is quietly in the service of special interest - in this case in the interest of psychopathic Jeremy Bamber in an attempt to have his murder convictions deemed unsafe

* https://www.collinsdictionary.com/submission/17851/innocent+fraud
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 22, 2020, 09:10:32 AM
Solicitor advocate Mark Newby stated,

Dec 2019
in view of pending judicial review proceedings there will be no further comment”

&

Jan 2020
We will not be making any further comment in view of the ongoing case before the Court “

and now he’s apparently saying,

“Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.

These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”


Messy

‘Asked how he felt about the current series, Bamber said: "The ITV drama is a disgrace.

It is being broadcast in the middle of a judicial review and is likely to interfere with the CPS being able to pursue the option of a retrial.

"It is promoted as 'a drama' as Carol Ann Lee's book that it's based upon is, for the most part, simply made up."

Author Ms Lee, who handed over all her research notes to ITV for the company's work with the drama, said: "I fully appreciate he'll have an opinion on it, but it's just not true to say it's speculation," she said.

"Everything in the book is meticulously footnoted, there is a very small piece of speculation at the end when I discuss how the murders could have been carried out but I make it very clear that that is the case.

It {the series] is actually very fair to him. It's the story of his conviction and not the story of how he killed his family.

"The people making the decisions about Jeremy's future are not going to be swayed or influenced by how he is portrayed in an ITV drama."
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/white-house-farm-labelled-a-disgrace-by-jeremy-bamber-1-6476355
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 22, 2020, 10:12:48 AM
‘Asked how he felt about the current series, Bamber said: "The ITV drama is a disgrace.

It is being broadcast in the middle of a judicial review and is likely to interfere with the CPS being able to pursue the option of a retrial.

"It is promoted as 'a drama' as Carol Ann Lee's book that it's based upon is, for the most part, simply made up."
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/white-house-farm-labelled-a-disgrace-by-jeremy-bamber-1-6476355

From 2016
Insp Cornish said Bamber was "well aware of the legal processes that he should follow to seek a review of his convictions".
"His attempt at circumnavigating the formal process using the media and websites is ill-conceived," the letter continued.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2020, 11:48:28 AM
‘Asked how he felt about the current series, Bamber said: "The ITV drama is a disgrace.

It is being broadcast in the middle of a judicial review and is likely to interfere with the CPS being able to pursue the option of a retrial.

"It is promoted as 'a drama' as Carol Ann Lee's book that it's based upon is, for the most part, simply made up."

Author Ms Lee, who handed over all her research notes to ITV for the company's work with the drama, said: "I fully appreciate he'll have an opinion on it, but it's just not true to say it's speculation," she said.

"Everything in the book is meticulously footnoted, there is a very small piece of speculation at the end when I discuss how the murders could have been carried out but I make it very clear that that is the case.

It {the series] is actually very fair to him. It's the story of his conviction and not the story of how he killed his family.

"The people making the decisions about Jeremy's future are not going to be swayed or influenced by how he is portrayed in an ITV drama."
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/white-house-farm-labelled-a-disgrace-by-jeremy-bamber-1-6476355

He can hardly call the Itv series a disgrace given his bake-off and graveside reading.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 24, 2020, 07:56:36 PM
Gringo on blue claims, ‘newspapers use these linguistic tricks to deceive’

As do murderers like Jeremy Bamber

Maybe Gringo can give us all a lesson on how laws are created and changed and new precedents set

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 24, 2020, 07:58:28 PM
He can hardly call the Itv series a disgrace given his bake-off and graveside reading.

It was Trudi Benjamin who gave the ‘graveside reading’ and the CT who appear to have organised the bake off - the CT which Trudi Benjamin is a part of
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 01:00:50 AM
Gringo on blue claims, ‘newspapers use these linguistic tricks to deceive’

As do murderers like Jeremy Bamber

Maybe Gringo can give us all a lesson on how laws are created and changed and new precedents set

In the meantime https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=140724630727937&id=110855557048178&ref=page_internal

Carol Ann Lee states clearly,

his campaign team have claimed he only wrote a handful of letters in return. Not true: I have a huge amount of letters from him...”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2020, 05:05:45 AM
In the meantime https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=140724630727937&id=110855557048178&ref=page_internal (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=140724630727937&id=110855557048178&ref=page_internal)

Carol Ann Lee states clearly,

his campaign team have claimed he only wrote a handful of letters in return. Not true: I have a huge amount of letters from him...”
Good find!   Well done to CAL for putting the record straight.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2020, 07:20:11 AM
Caroline!  Tell gringo to put a plug in his pretentious garbage before he makes himself look like a complete idiot.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on January 25, 2020, 08:45:22 AM
Caroline!  Tell gringo to put a plug in his pretentious garbage before he makes himself look like a complete idiot.

That ship sailed a while ago.

 8(8-))
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 08:49:57 AM
It was Trudi Benjamin who gave the ‘graveside reading’ and the CT who appear to have organised the bake off - the CT which Trudi Benjamin is a part of

She claims the letter she was reading from JB.  If this is so he clearly endorsed the whole thing:

https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2020, 08:50:55 AM
That ship sailed a while ago.

 8(8-))
The result of downing too many margaritas on a beach.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2020, 08:59:22 AM
She claims the letter she was reading from JB.  If this is so he clearly endorsed the whole thing:

https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4 (https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4)
Pass me the sick bag...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 09:01:24 AM
Good find!   Well done to CAL for putting the record straight.

Well we know his trademark block capitals which take up considerable space.  I recall he once sent me several A4 pages of writing which arrived in two separate envelopes on the same day as the prison had some rule about a maximum number of pages per letter [envelope].  From memory I think the limit was either 4 or 5 pages.  If he was under some misguided idea CAL was going to beat the drum for him he would be scribbling away like crazy and I can see how she might well have ended up with hundreds of pages amounting to a few letters but sent in numerous envelopes.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 09:06:59 AM
Well we know his trademark block capitals which take up considerable space.  I recall he once sent me several A4 pages of writing which arrived in two separate envelopes on the same day as the prison had some rule about a maximum number of pages per letter [envelope].  From memory I think the limit was either 4 or 5 pages.  If he was under some misguided idea CAL was going to beat the drum for him he would be scribbling away like crazy and I can see how she might well have ended up with hundreds of pages amounting to a few letters but sent in numerous envelopes.

Unless you can provide evidence of this I’m of the opinion you made it up and are telling porkies
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 09:09:23 AM
Pass me the sick bag...

Is there anything about JB either initiating or endorsing the bake-off?  Either way I blame the CT as these things would not have been possible without their assistance. 

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2020, 09:11:29 AM
Well we know his trademark block capitals which take up considerable space.  I recall he once sent me several A4 pages of writing which arrived in two separate envelopes on the same day as the prison had some rule about a maximum number of pages per letter [envelope].  From memory I think the limit was either 4 or 5 pages.  If he was under some misguided idea CAL was going to beat the drum for him he would be scribbling away like crazy and I can see how she might well have ended up with hundreds of pages amounting to a few letters but sent in numerous envelopes.
Must have cost CAL a fortune in first-class stamps.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2020, 09:19:01 AM
Is there anything about JB either initiating or endorsing the bake-off?  Either way I blame the CT as these things would not have been possible without their assistance.
Naah... Trudi just wanted to get shots of her vast kitchen replete with a WHF AGA, huge stainless-steel range cooker and Kenwood Chef on YouTube.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 09:19:38 AM
Unless you can provide evidence of this I’m of the opinion you made it up and are telling porkies

You're free to think what you like.

How do you think prison officials screen outgoing mail for content and contraband if prisoners are allowed to send out hundreds of pages of paper in one envelope?  Bearing in mind JB is cat A.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 09:25:50 AM
Must have cost CAL a fortune in first-class stamps.

I'm not aware of any restrictions on ingoing mail. 

She may have used the email a prisoner service which has only fairly recently been made available to prisoners to mail out.  Well actually they write a letter which officials then scan and email.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 09:28:09 AM
You're free to think what you like.

How do you think prison officials screen outgoing mail for content and contraband if prisoners are allowed to send out hundreds of pages of paper in one envelope?  Bearing in mind JB is cat A.

I don’t believe ‘prison officials screen’ all “outgoing mail for content and contraband’
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 09:35:11 AM
I'm not aware of any restrictions on ingoing mail. 

Aren’t you?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 09:35:32 AM
I don’t believe ‘prison officials screen’ all “outgoing mail for content and contraband’

No I don't believe prison officials screen all outgoing mail for content and contraband just incoming and outgoing mail to cat A prisoners.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 09:39:14 AM
Aren’t you?

Not insofar as limit to number of pages sent via written correspondence but in terms of email there's a limit to lines/ characters and if the sender wants to continue beyond the limit a further email is required.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 09:45:03 AM
No I don't believe prison officials screen all outgoing mail for content and contraband just incoming and outgoing mail to cat A prisoners.

Then you are naive https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling


https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/prison-officer-exchanged-love-letters-and-sex-messages-inmate-wakefield-jail-320746

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/nurse-working-at-top-security-prison-had-sex-with-rapist-1-4910204
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 10:12:29 AM
Then you are naive https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling


https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/prison-officer-exchanged-love-letters-and-sex-messages-inmate-wakefield-jail-320746

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/nurse-working-at-top-security-prison-had-sex-with-rapist-1-4910204

If you believe the contents of a post are wrong it is sufficient to state such setting out your reasons why.  Please desist from making comments of a personal nature as it sows discord and is not in keeping with the spirit of the forum.

I believe all communication from cat A prisoners is monitored other than maybe to legal reps. Certainly phone calls are monitored so why would it be different for mail? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 10:52:17 AM
All letters, both incoming and outgoing, may be read in high security establishments.

All phone calls made by cat A prisoners are monitored.

Bearing in mind JB is on a whole life tariff I would think his conditions security wise are onerous.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
All letters, both incoming and outgoing, may be read in high security establishments.

All phone calls made by cat A prisoners are monitored.

Bearing in mind JB is on a whole life tariff I would think his conditions security wise are onerous.

https://www.prisonersfamilies.org/contact/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 25, 2020, 12:42:20 PM
Well we know his trademark block capitals which take up considerable space.  I recall he once sent me several A4 pages of writing which arrived in two separate envelopes on the same day as the prison had some rule about a maximum number of pages per letter [envelope].  From memory I think the limit was either 4 or 5 pages.  If he was under some misguided idea CAL was going to beat the drum for him he would be scribbling away like crazy and I can see how she might well have ended up with hundreds of pages amounting to a few letters but sent in numerous envelopes.

I have letters from him longer than that sent in the same envelope. It might depend on the prison but CAL had been writing to him for more than three years. He writes on both sides of the page to save paper and numbers the pages.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 25, 2020, 12:45:48 PM
You're free to think what you like.

How do you think prison officials screen outgoing mail for content and contraband if prisoners are allowed to send out hundreds of pages of paper in one envelope?  Bearing in mind JB is cat A.

There is no restriction o sending letters - I realise that people will jump all over the word 'normally' but that clearly would be if there was a suspicion that something was being organised etc.

https://www.gov.uk/staying-in-touch-with-someone-in-prison
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 25, 2020, 12:47:14 PM
Then you are naive https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling


https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/prison-officer-exchanged-love-letters-and-sex-messages-inmate-wakefield-jail-320746

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/nurse-working-at-top-security-prison-had-sex-with-rapist-1-4910204

Prisoners have to leave the envelope open for checking.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 25, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
All letters, both incoming and outgoing, may be read in high security establishments.

All phone calls made by cat A prisoners are monitored.

Bearing in mind JB is on a whole life tariff I would think his conditions security wise are onerous.

I don't think they check all -but it is procedure to leave the envelope open. I imagine it depends on the prison and staffing levels.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 12:52:03 PM
Prisoners have to leave the envelope open for checking.

Yep, I received several unsealed letters
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
I don't think they check all -but it is procedure to leave the envelope open. I imagine it depends on the prison and staffing levels.

... and the integrity of the prison worker tasked with the job
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 10:39:51 PM
She claims the letter she was reading from JB.  If this is so he clearly endorsed the whole thing:

https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4

She also claims

Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀 Retweeted
Trudi Benjamin
@tru68
3h
Please RT!!
Nevill Bamber called the police at 03.26am and #JeremyBamber called the police at 03.36am as the tragedies unfolded at White House Farm on 07.08.85.
#NewEvidence
#Innocent
#34years
#injustice
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/case

Posters may recall the ‘prima facile’ argument made by LM

Anybody reading those logs will deduce, prima facie, that there were two callers not one.  Again, that does not mean there were two callers.  I may even agree with you that there was only one caller, but that is not what the logs say and remember, here we are considering not so much what we as individuals 'think', but the matter of legal doubt. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 25, 2020, 11:07:29 PM
Mark Williams Thomas seems only interested in ££££££££££

“It was a characteristic that struck his own defence team. Ed Lawson, QC, Mr Rivlin's junior at the trial, described how, on the eve of conviction, Bamber was

disconcertingly composed"

and

"talking somewhat unattractively about how much money he would make from selling his story to Fleet Street".
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/past-crimes-the-bamber-files-2046383.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 26, 2020, 09:38:16 AM
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
#WhiteHouseFarm The Drama
“...because the Jeremy Bamber I’m playing is a combination of the Jeremy Bamber that I’ve created as an actor, in my imagination...”
Freddie Fox: 'Viewers can decide Jeremy Bamber's guilt' - Radio Times

Not dissimilar to the Barry George she’s ‘created’ from her ‘imagination’ all these years - even ‘Uncle Mike’ (Michael Bourke) agrees https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1220281763949371392

“I was again concerned he was trying to threaten me.This type of behaviour undermined my belief in him.” (From Mike’s Story- the battle to clear Barry George of the Jill Dando murder) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ltgorwROQfwC&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=mikes+story+barry+george+michelle&source=bl&ots=OsB33Lx_9C&sig=ACfU3U2GryxZ0JpVexh3P_ijIoE6WC87TA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjH27OM_KDnAhWFUlAKHWyVCXEQ6AEwAnoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=mikes%20story%20barry%20george%20michelle&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 30, 2020, 11:56:11 AM
She claims the letter she was reading from JB.  If this is so he clearly endorsed the whole thing:

https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4

He may have ‘endorsed’ the ‘whole thing’ but was it Trudi Benjamin’s idea or his?

She once wrote to Russel Brand - was that Bamber’s idea?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 30, 2020, 12:28:41 PM
Bamber campaign calls on ITV to pull ‘dangerous drama’ by Jon Robins 9th Jan 2020

According to Bamber’s lawyer, Mark Newby said that they were concerned that that the drama would ‘place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS’.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/bamber-campaign-calls-on-itv-to-pull-dangerous-drama/

Would be interested to hear Mark Newbys thoughts on the ‘fictional narrative’ placed in the ‘public domain’ by Bamber and his campaign team

What does he make of the ‘telephones’ issue for example?

It has been suggested that Jeremy deliberately removed the phone from the bedroom that his father slept in so that he could not call the police when Jeremy allegedly broke into the house to kill the family. Firstly, Jeremy could not be responsible for the storm, which had again damaged the telephone equipment. Secondly, is Jeremy expected to remember where each phone was at each moment when he didn’t even live in the house? Is it reasonable to expect Jeremy to know which phones were supposed to be where at this time? Is it not a reasonable assumption that, if the Bamber family's phone were broken, one of the household members would take a phone from the upstairs bedroom and use it to replace the broken one? Particularly if, amongst the piles of untidy clutter littered throughout the house they didn’t know where the spare phone was.
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/telephones

What does Mark Newby make of all the contradictions made?

For example, haven’t those campaigning on Bamber’s behalf suggested SC would have known where the guns, silencer and ammo were kept - even though she hadn’t lived at WHF for years and was only visiting ?

Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
Jan 24, 2014
Does the media help miscarriages of justice? by Paul May
@JusticeGap
 http://thejusticegap.com/2013/01/what’s-the-media-ever-done-for-us/
@Bambertweets

Trudi Benjamin
@tru68
Replying to
@FloKrause

@FloKrause
@JusticeGap
@FreeBamberNow
@Bambertweets
 #bobwoffinden can't get his facts straight about #jeremybamber http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=bob+woffinden…
9:37 AM · Jan 24, 2014·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/426649902081253376

Tuesday, 17 May 2011
"What Bob Woffinden didn't consider"
Those of you who read Bob Woffinden’s article yesterday might want to consider the following:

How does a telephone found by a witness during September over a month after the killings counteract the following evidence which he did not assess when making his judgements:

•It doesn’t illustrate that Sheila was not alive in the house
•It does not counteract the testimony of officers calling to her as they heard her moving around
•Why doesn’t his investigation show that Sheila was not found downstairs in the kitchen
•What of the numerous independent logs stating that the body of a man and a women were found in the kitchen is he proposing that a woman dead for over seven and a half hours moved herself upstairs from the kitchen?
•How does it counteract the conversation with someone inside the farm?
•What about the police outside for almost four hours with a megaphone?
•And of the movement in the window seen by Bews?
•How does he explain the ‘siege’ situation?
•How does the phone explain a dead woman bleeding for over seven hours photographed with her blood still wet?
•And what about the hour missing from the radio logs at the scene why would that be?
•What about the handwritten statements and pocket books from the scene which remain undisclosed?
•How does a telephone in the 2002 appeal ruling have any bearing on evidence released since 2004?

And of course finally why doesn't Bob address the sound moderator which was found tampered with and all of the documents backdated. How can one sound moderator be in two places at once?

Remember Bob did not present a piece based on balanced research, he did not have access to the comprehensive number of Defence documents, despite us offering them to him several times.

To find out the truth based on the evidence about the phones at WHF click here
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Tuesday, May 17, 2011

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/search?q=bob+woffinden
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 30, 2020, 03:25:32 PM
Tuesday, 17 May 2011
"What Bob Woffinden didn't consider"
Those of you who read Bob Woffinden’s article yesterday might want to consider the following:

How does a telephone found by a witness during September over a month after the killings counteract the following evidence which he did not assess when making his judgements:

•It doesn’t illustrate that Sheila was not alive in the house
•It does not counteract the testimony of officers calling to her as they heard her moving around
•Why doesn’t his investigation show that Sheila was not found downstairs in the kitchen
•What of the numerous independent logs stating that the body of a man and a women were found in the kitchen is he proposing that a woman dead for over seven and a half hours moved herself upstairs from the kitchen?
•How does it counteract the conversation with someone inside the farm?
•What about the police outside for almost four hours with a megaphone?
And of the movement in the window seen by Bews?
•How does he explain the ‘siege’ situation?
•How does the phone explain a dead woman bleeding for over seven hours photographed with her blood still wet?
•And what about the hour missing from the radio logs at the scene why would that be?
•What about the handwritten statements and pocket books from the scene which remain undisclosed?
•How does a telephone in the 2002 appeal ruling have any bearing on evidence released since 2004?

And of course finally why doesn't Bob address the sound moderator which was found tampered with and all of the documents backdated. How can one sound moderator be in two places at once?

Remember Bob did not present a piece based on balanced research, he did not have access to the comprehensive number of Defence documents, despite us offering them to him several times.

To find out the truth based on the evidence about the phones at WHF click here
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Tuesday, May 17, 2011

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/search?q=bob+woffinden

3 years later it’s seen by 3 of them  *&^^& 4 if you include Michelle Diskin Bates
Will be interesting to see how Bamber’s supporters react to ‘crime writer’ Gayle Curtis’ musings
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/jeremy-bambers-revealing-letter-jail-17634522

Bamber writes (12th Dec 2014)


“It is never easy to figure out what it is that could be seen as the worst situation I’ve ever had to cope with. I think that the 7th August 1985 and having to support and care for my cousins Jacqueline and Anthony, my brother in law Colin and the others at my house, whilst having to cope with my own grief over the death of my mum and dad, Sheila the boys Daniel and Nicholas couple with that with grief for letting my dad down in not being able to come to his rescue and confusion over what on earth could have gone so terribly wrong

The effect of that day has been life changing as I’ve been tasked with defending my mum and dads reputation. So many people who have made out that they were so close to my mum and dad and loved them so much have spent 30 years doing everything possible to denigrate my mum and dads characters, doing so to false create a motive for them having been murdered. I have had to put the record straight about what my mum and dad were really like. I am proud to be their son and proud to be setting records straight about what lovely people they were

As to what has stayed with me, a sense of guilt of about what if. That moment at 04.00am when PC Bews, PC Myall and myself watched the silhouette of someone walking in front of the master bedroom window, the main light in the bedroom was on, the curtains completely open - when PC Bews ran back to the police car with PC Myall and myself running after him, why didn’t we run up to the back door and not towards the police car could we have broken in and saved someone or everyone. Why was I so compliant in the presence of police officers so that I did whatever they wanted?

Why was I such a let down and such a weak character when faced with things that morning? It’s left me feeling ashamed  for letting my family down when they obviously needed me the most.

Though my life has been filled with trials and tribulations and no doubt there will be many more yet to come.

Have a great Christmas.

Jeremy


Trudi Benjamin appears to have missed this Freudian slip, though suspect she was too busy defending Bamber following Bob Woffinden’s claims
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 30, 2020, 05:04:14 PM
In 2011 Bamber claimed
Remember Bob did not present a piece based on balanced research, he did not have access to the comprehensive number of Defence documents, despite us offering them to him several times.
(But Mike T did)

Not dissimilar to what he’s saying now about WHF
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 30, 2020, 06:20:19 PM
He may have ‘endorsed’ the ‘whole thing’ but was it Trudi Benjamin’s idea or his?

She once wrote to Russel Brand - was that Bamber’s idea?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176

Afaik JB has never pulled a stunt like this previously so it may well have been TB's/CT's idea but I guess they run it by JB beforehand.  Utterly deluded if they thought anything positive would come from it in terms of campaigning for JB.  All it did was generate negative publicity rightly so imo.

Russell Brand  @)(++(*  How is RB going to convince 3 appeal court judges that JB's conviction is unsafe?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 30, 2020, 06:42:20 PM
Afaik JB has never pulled a stunt like this previously so it may well have been TB's/CT's idea but I guess they run it by JB beforehand.  Utterly deluded if they thought anything positive would come from it in terms of campaigning for JB.  All it did was generate negative publicity rightly so imo.

Russell Brand  @)(++(*  How is RB going to convince 3 appeal court judges that JB's conviction is unsafe?

Bamber has 5 murder convictions
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 30, 2020, 08:46:40 PM
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/jeremy-bamber-acts-agony-aunt-21389718
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 30, 2020, 09:25:57 PM
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/jeremy-bamber-acts-agony-aunt-21389718

"Deluded monster" - Ouch!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on January 31, 2020, 09:54:51 AM
And of the movement in the window seen by Bews?

Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Tuesday, May 17, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/search?q=bob+woffinden
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/jeremy-bambers-revealing-letter-jail-17634522

Bamber writes (12th Dec 2014)

 That moment at 04.00am when PC Bews, PC Myall and myself watched the silhouette of someone walking in front of the master bedroom window, the main light in the bedroom was on, the curtains completely open - when PC Bews ran back to the police car with PC Myall and myself running after him,

What year did Bamber tell ‘the media he heard gunfire in the house’ ?


@Bambertweets You are wasting your time #Bamber lied and told the media he heard gunfire in the house BUT NOT the police !

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on January 31, 2020, 12:49:42 PM
What year did Bamber tell ‘the media he heard gunfire in the house’ ?


@Bambertweets You are wasting your time #Bamber lied and told the media he heard gunfire in the house BUT NOT the police !

To be honest, I have never read that he did say that?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 04, 2020, 02:04:46 PM
3 years later it’s seen by 3 of them  *&^^& 4 if you include Michelle Diskin Bates
Trudi Benjamin appears to have missed this Freudian slip, though suspect she was too busy defending Bamber following Bob Woffinden’s claims

For clarity, crime writer Gayle Curtis ‘is not supporting’ Bamber (Source Jilly Beatie)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 04, 2020, 09:12:05 PM
CAL setting the record straight https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

Separating fact from fiction



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 04, 2020, 10:15:45 PM
Carol Ann Lee, the author of The Murders at White House Farm, which partly inspired the new ITV series #WhiteHouseFarm, tells @BenFryer & @sonwatson, Jeremy Bamber is a “compelling character”

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214827354016636928

Worth a listen

Former Essex Police officer, David Bright, who was a DI at the time of the White House Farm murders in 1985, says police officers did a good job in getting the evidence to convict Jeremy Bamber, who was a “good actor and liar”

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214830718423117825
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 04, 2020, 10:23:51 PM
Michael O'Brien
@mobrien1967
I challenge Carol Ann Lee to have a live tv or radio  debate over the Jeremy bamber case case with me.
8:28 PM · Jul 19, 2015·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/mobrien1967/status/622850529119461376

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on February 04, 2020, 10:36:19 PM
Michael O'Brien has come out to play.

Mike popped out for a nibble recently. Hope to see Andrew Hunter & Trudie soon.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 04, 2020, 10:40:26 PM
Michael O'Brien has come out to play.

Mike popped out for a nibble recently. Hope to see Andrew Hunter & Trudie soon.

The tweet was from 2015 Adam 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: adam on February 04, 2020, 11:26:39 PM
The tweet was from 2015 Adam

A pity. Thought some old buddies were saying 'hi'.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 05, 2020, 05:37:24 AM
Carol Ann Lee, the author of The Murders at White House Farm, which partly inspired the new ITV series #WhiteHouseFarm, tells @BenFryer & @sonwatson, Jeremy Bamber is a “compelling character”

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214827354016636928 (https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214827354016636928)

Worth a listen

Former Essex Police officer, David Bright, who was a DI at the time of the White House Farm murders in 1985, says police officers did a good job in getting the evidence to convict Jeremy Bamber, who was a “good actor and liar”

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214830718423117825 (https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214830718423117825)
CAL, like Caroline, witnessed Bamber's obstructive and secretive nature.  Happy that she's jumped off the fence onto the correct side.

Just as I thought, Sgt. Stan wasn't the drunken dimwit who couldn't string his words together that Holly sees him as, but an intelligent soul who sussed out Bamber and his lies from the start.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 05, 2020, 07:51:21 AM
CAL setting the record straight https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0 (https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0)

Separating fact from fiction
So he can curse in cursive after all!...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 05, 2020, 07:58:20 AM
So he can curse in cursive after all!...

Well spotted! Although I spotted the 'hundreds' of letters I missed that he hadn't used caps. Wonder why the change?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 05, 2020, 08:04:23 AM
Well spotted! Although I spotted the 'hundreds' of letters I missed that he hadn't used caps. Wonder why the change?
Just another one of his secrets he keeps in reserve for good-looking gals...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 05, 2020, 08:32:00 AM
CAL setting the record straight https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0 (https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0)

Separating fact from fiction
Bamber's Fanny Club fantasy and CAL's copious collection...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on February 05, 2020, 10:23:40 AM
CAL setting the record straight https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

Separating fact from fiction


Thanks for that, Nicholas.

I had previously read that CAL and JB exchanged only about 5 or 6 letters. That's obviously not true then!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 05, 2020, 12:55:51 PM
Bamber's Fanny Club fantasy and CAL's copious collection...

Fanny club s right!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 05, 2020, 08:02:58 PM
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
24m
Jeremy Bamber Campaign Official Web Site - Alibi

Message Log (5:25am)
There is evidence to suggest the police having been in conversation with Sheila Caffell ‘Firearms team are in conversation with someone from inside the farm’. It has been suggested this

🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
...is referring to Jeremy Bamber, but he was referred to by his name or 'the son' and not as an unknown person. Nor was he 'inside the farm'. In all instances ‘inside the farm’ was repeatedly used by the police to mean ‘inside the farmhouse’.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1225141352582782981
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 06, 2020, 12:38:25 PM
Lookout claims: 

‘There is a media company who have studied the Bamber case and who are also adamant that JB is innocent and who are presently an interested party. We'll see what transpires.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6321.msg477066.html#msg477066

Back Porch Media Productions
@media_porch
Jan 30
Having studied this case I truly cannot believe he is still in prison Robin Garbutt is the victim here!! Missing clump of hair from evidence, the man was a scapegoat pure and simple
https://mobile.twitter.com/media_porch/status/1222948613271232519

Black porch media productions claim on their website;

‘We research and produce documentaries, screen plays and films. We are currently working to produce a documentary to expose the failings of the British Justice System in regard to a terrible miscarriage of justice against ...
https://backporchmediaprod.wixsite.com/website

Black porch media productions claim here https://www.starnow.co.uk/backporchmediaproductions there are a ‘growing production compamy’

To date they have produced - nothing

Nothing to see here I’m afraid Lookout, just your imagination.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 06, 2020, 04:17:16 PM
A pity. Thought some old buddies were saying 'hi'.

He’s tweeted an article from 2003 regarding Ray Gilbert https://mobile.twitter.com/michael47478285/status/1225017729511579648

In October 2016 a news article reported on Ray Gilbert’s release from prison after 36 years.

Maybe he thinks it will give Bamber supporters ‘hope’ ?

Rather alarmingly the same article reported,

There were fears that both men may come into contact with each other at a National Miscarriage of Justice Day meeting at John Moores University on Saturday.

The ECHO understands that Gilbert wanted to attend the meeting but has been advised not to by campaigners, who fear any flashpoints could potentially land him back in jail.

Mr Kamara, however, is attending the event. He told the ECHO: “I am coming up to talk to people and help other people on how to fight their case.”

One of the city’s most contentious murders, Gilbert, 56, penned a confession on paper during questioning and pleaded guilty in court - but has since protested his innocence over the 19-wound attack.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/murderer-ray-gilbert-released-prison-11989227

Copper who investigated controversial John Suffield bookies murder reveals behaviour of killer Raymond Gilbert
“NEW details have emerged of the controversial conviction of a killer who knifed a Liverpool bookie to death.

“Now, the investigating police officer has come forward to the ECHO.
John Wright, from the then Serious Crime Squad’s explained how:
The suspect demonstrated how he repeatedly stabbed John by grabbing the interviewing police officer.
Gilbert, on the spur of the moment, penned a confession on paper during questioning.
His first account of the incident was so “detailed, plausible, and fitting the circumstances” that he had to be present at the murder.
Gilbert’s co-accused John Kamara was freed in 2000 after his conviction was ruled unsafe and quashed by the Court of Appeal.
His colleague remains in jail as, although he has served his minimum 15-year tariff, his refusal to admit the crime means he cannot be considered for release by The Parole Board.
Mr Wright, now retired, told the ECHO: “Originally, a bus passenger saw Gilbert going into the bookies and drew a picture of him and Kamara.
“Me and my colleague Ray Prentice (detective sergeant) showed it round the office and they immediately recognised them, as they were always round that area, and known criminals.
“When we went to arrest him (Gilbert) his girlfriend answered and straightaway said: ‘I know what it’s about, he was with me.’
“In interview, when we asked Gilbert, ‘how did you stab Suffield?’, he stood me up, put his hands round my neck and showed how he cut his mouth and face.
“You could tell he was there when it happened. It was very scary.”
During questioning, Mr Wright explained how Gilbert wrote a confession: “I couldn’t believe what he was saying. I was looking at Ray and thinking, ‘God....’ He didn’t want a solicitor, he was cock-a-hoop.
“Gilbert wrote it in his own handwriting. He wasn’t the brightest in the box, but he wasn’t thick. It was a horrible murder, one of the worst I’d worked on.”
Justice campaigner Bruce Kent, supporting Gilbert’s case, has dismissed a further letter written by the killer in which he apparently ‘confessed’.
That read: “I punched him twice in the face. I then produced a knife and said, ‘If I have to resort to use this to get the answer about where the bread is, I will, but I don’t want to.’
“We took him into the back room and pushed him on to a chair…I asked Suffield how to get open the other part of the safe. He was trying to mumble but I couldn’t hear what he was saying… I was angry and lost my temper…”
That statement was written after Gilbert’s conviction, in an apparent bid to clear his co-accused Kamara.
Mr Kent, speaking of the confession in police interview, said: “This was signed after two days and nights of frequent interrogation by police officers with no one else present – permissible in 1981 but not today.
“There was no other evidence whatsoever connecting Gilbert to the murder – weapon, bloodstains, fingerprints or witness identification.
In the middle of that interrogation he was told that his alibi (his girlfriend) had changed her story. She had, under police pressure.”
He added: “Any policeman is bound to defend his position to the hilt.
“The confession made with police made no reference to the inner safe which is crucial. I don’t think Raymond Gilbert is a saint, but he’s not a murderer.”
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/copper-who-investigated-controversial-john-3352034

R. v. John Kamara [2000] EWCA Crim 37
http://netk.net.au/UK/Kamara.asp

In their ‘Cases and Reports’ section ‘Progressing Prisoners Maintaining Innocence’ alongside Mark Alexander here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=98.0 they’ve included,

Raymond Gilbert
‘Convicted of murder in Liverpool in December 1981, Ray was given a 15 year tariff but served 36 years in prison. He was finally released in 2017.  He attributes the many years in prison after his tariff (minimum term) had ended to the fact that he maintained his innocence throughout.  If he had pretended to be guilty he could have been released many years earlier.
http://www.prisonersmaintaininginnocence.org.uk/cases-and-reports/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 15, 2020, 12:47:55 AM
“Author Scott Lomax, who wrote Jeremy Bamber: Evil, Almost Beyond Belief? spoke exclusively to Express.co.uk about Bamber and his personality.

Lomax described him as an “intelligent man” who was “very charming” and “comes across as very confident.”

He added: “He has always struck me as someone who is putting on a brave face.”

Lomax explained: “I have met Jeremy Bamber several times in prison. I have also spoken to him on the phone countless times and exchanged around 200 letters with him, since March 2003.

“I first met him at Full Sutton a Prison in October 2004. He is an intelligent man who describes himself as an ‘old pro’ in terms of campaigning.

“He is a very charming man who comes across as very confident but he has always struck me as someone who is putting on a brave face.

“It has always been apparent to me that he is very concerned about pleasing other people, including his supporters. From what I understand from those who knew him before his arrest, he has always been like this and has been too trusting of people who have then let him down.
https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1240858/White-House-Farm-where-is-Jeremy-Bamber-today-prison-life-sentence-ITV-series?video=
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on February 15, 2020, 09:07:51 AM
So he can curse in cursive after all!...

JB recently said he only wrote to CAL six times

I know he’s a pathological liar, but surely he must realise how wails you he can get tripped up?

Is he unintelligent for a psychopath?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 15, 2020, 10:34:45 AM
JB recently said he only wrote to CAL six times

I know he’s a pathological liar, but surely he must realise how wails you he can get tripped up?

Is he unintelligent for a psychopath?

Where has he said how many times he wrote to CAL?

I exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him over about 6 years.  The longest was about 8 pages in   capitals and the shortest were notes, again in capitals, on small cards.  I formed the opinion he had no idea about the aspects of the case I was interested in. 

How have you arrived at the decision he's a pathological liar and psychopath?



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 15, 2020, 01:26:32 PM
JB recently said he only wrote to CAL six times

I know he’s a pathological liar, but surely he must realise how wails you he can get tripped up?

Is he unintelligent for a psychopath?

The CT have claimed this but if Bamber fed them that info, the recent pictures published by CAL prove he's a liar.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 15, 2020, 02:04:17 PM
The CT have claimed this but if Bamber fed them that info, the recent pictures published by CAL prove he's a liar.

And notice how journalists, especially those within the ‘wrongful conviction’ arena and the like, have chosen to turn a blind eye to this fact
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on February 18, 2020, 06:32:40 PM
Where has he said how many times he wrote to CAL?

I exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him over about 6 years.  The longest was about 8 pages in   capitals and the shortest were notes, again in capitals, on small cards.  I formed the opinion he had no idea about the aspects of the case I was interested in. 

How have you arrived at the decision he's a pathological liar and psychopath?

I’ll find it for you...I like to help :)

He said he’d only written 5 or 5 times to Carol Ann Lee

She posted screenshots of all the letters and envelopes she received from him, which came to hundreds, maybe thousands

Shall post it soon
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 20, 2020, 06:43:31 PM
A nice little earner...

https://davidhender.life/2020/02/19/i-am-not-the-only-one-to-be-stitched-up-by-the-police-jeremy-bamber-has-too-updated/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/19/i-am-not-the-only-one-to-be-stitched-up-by-the-police-jeremy-bamber-has-too-updated/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 20, 2020, 07:46:49 PM
Hender certainly likes washing his dirty underpants in public.  Yet more crap...

https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Admin on February 20, 2020, 08:32:00 PM
Hender certainly likes washing his dirty underpants in public.  Yet more crap...

https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/)

Wouldn't be surprised in the least if this originated in HMP Full Sutton.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 20, 2020, 09:56:48 PM
A nice little earner...

https://davidhender.life/2020/02/19/i-am-not-the-only-one-to-be-stitched-up-by-the-police-jeremy-bamber-has-too-updated/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/19/i-am-not-the-only-one-to-be-stitched-up-by-the-police-jeremy-bamber-has-too-updated/)

Actually, EP didn't dispute that there was an interview, not that there is a suicide note.

"Daily Star Online contacted both Essex Police and the Metropolitan Police about the existence of this interview and it was not disputed."

By the sound of it, they didn't confirm it either!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 22, 2020, 04:55:14 AM
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 22, 2020, 12:49:58 PM
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"

Who?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Brietta on February 22, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Who?

I looked it up and got Trudi Benjamin.  I've no idea who that is.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 22, 2020, 01:01:14 PM
I looked it up and got Trudi Benjamin.  I've no idea who that is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsUyH-5t3S4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsUyH-5t3S4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnbBdgUkkI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnbBdgUkkI)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on February 22, 2020, 01:16:04 PM
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"


Oh! One of the few said to have achieved self actualization &^^&* &%%6
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on February 22, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
I looked it up and got Trudi Benjamin.  I've no idea who that is.


Neither has Eleanor Roosevelt.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 22, 2020, 01:27:25 PM
I looked it up and got Trudi Benjamin.  I've no idea who that is.

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 22, 2020, 01:29:22 PM

Neither has Eleanor Roosevelt.

The must have held a seance  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on February 22, 2020, 01:43:34 PM
The must have held a seance  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*


That'd be it @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 22, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"

And it appears Trudi Benjamin is promoting ‘the illusionary truth effect’ or ‘information pollution’
to students using Bamber’s BS, enabled by Claire McGourlay

Trudi Benjamin
@tru68
And highlighting one of the gravest miscarriages of justice #JeremyBamber
Hope the students enjoyed Claire https://twitter.com/CMcgourlay/status/1230897715741102080

The Illusory Truth Effect: Why We Believe Fake News, Conspiracy Theories and Propaganda
Excerpts:
The illusory truth effect comes down to processing fluency. When a thought is easier to process, it requires our brains to use less energy, which leads us to prefer it.

“The illusory truth effect is one factor in why fabricated news stories sometimes gain traction and have a wide impact. When this happens, our knee-jerk reaction can be to assume that anyone who believes fake news must be unusually gullible or outright stupid. Evan Davis writes in Post Truth,

Never before has there been a stronger sense that fellow citizens have been duped and that we are all suffering the consequences of their intellectual vulnerability.”

As Davis goes on to write, this assumption isn’t helpful for anyone. We can’t begin to understand why people believe seemingly ludicrous news stories until we consider some of the psychological reasons why this might happen.

Fake news falls under the umbrella of “information pollution,” which also includes news items that misrepresent information, take it out of context, parody it, fail to check facts or do background research, or take claims from unreliable sources at face value. Some of this news gets published on otherwise credible, well-respected news sites due to simple oversight. Some goes on parody sites that never purport to tell the truth, yet are occasionally mistaken for serious reporting. Some shows up on sites that replicate the look and feel of credible sources, using similar web design and web addresses. And some fake news comes from sites dedicated entirely to spreading misinformation, without any pretense of being anything else.

A lot of information pollution falls somewhere in between the extremes that tend to get the most attention. It’s the result of people being overworked or in a hurry and unable to do the due diligence that reliable journalism requires. It’s what happens when we hastily tweet something or mention it in a blog post and don’t realize it’s not quite true. It extends to miscited quotes, doctored photographs, fiction books masquerading as memoirs, or misleading statistics.

The signal to noise ratio is so skewed that we have a hard time figuring out what to pay attention to and what we should ignore. No one has time to verify everything they read online. No one. (And no, offline media certainly isn’t perfect either.) Our information processing capabilities are not infinite and the more we consume, the harder it becomes to assess its value.

Moreover, we’re often far outside our circle of competence, reading about topics we don’t have the expertise in to assess accuracy in any meaningful way. This drip-drip of information pollution is not harmless. Like air pollution, it builds up over time and the more we’re exposed to it, the more likely we are to end up picking up false beliefs which are then hard to shift. For instance, a lot of people believe that crime, especially the violent kind, is on an upward trend year by year—in a 2016 study by Pew Research, 57% of Americans believed crime had worsened since 2008. This despite violent crime having actually fallen by nearly a fifth during that time. This false belief may stem from the fact that violent crime receives a disproportional amount of media coverage, giving it wide and repeated exposure.

Read more here https://fs.blog/2020/02/illusory-truth-effect/

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=89.msg494098#msg494098

An open letter to the CCRC – #2 by Claire McGourlay April 2016
https://www.thejusticegap.com/open-letter-ccrc-2/

Excerpts from sone of the comments taken from the above article
"Michael Naughton says:
April 6, 2016 at 4:15 pm
References to INUK are incorrect and unnecessary and merely detract from an otherwise reasonable letter, imho.
Don’t you agree that it is time to move on (INUK ceased member ship in 2014 and its reasons are well documented and fully transparent on the INUK website) and be judged by your own deeds and their outcomes as any other independent entity?
Re your own transparency: how many cases are you working on? (I do know how many INUK referred to you in the 8 years Sheffield was a member). How long have you been working on them? How many requests/applications have you made to the police or CPS for access to exhibits or biological samples for testing by new techniques? How many applications have you made to the CCRC on behalf of clients? How many were referred back to the Court of Appeal? How many were overturned? etc.
Is this not what really matters to innocent victims of wrongful convictions and imprisonment and their families and the test of a successful and effective cle enterprise?

Claire McGourlay says:
April 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm
Although this letter was not an open letter about you here is our answer to you.
Since you took an arbitrary decision two years ago to close down the network that linked innocence projects (rather than reform it into a democratic mutual support organization), you are not entitled to statistics from us (particularly when you tweet about how useless we all are-very unnecessary in my opinion and I can’t reply as you have blocked me and my students) and yes we have moved on and are doing very well indeed.
We have no fear of transparency, so here is some information.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on February 22, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"


I think Elenore Roosevelt is simply responsible for the quote of “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both” - There should be a full stop before 'supporting Jeremy Bamber  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 23, 2020, 05:51:02 AM


I think Elenore Roosevelt is simply responsible for the quote of “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both” - There should be a full stop before 'supporting Jeremy Bamber  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
It must have been the wrong time of the month for a period.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on March 06, 2020, 04:04:46 PM
It must have been the wrong time of the month for a period.


Seeing her YouTube video when Jeremy reached 55 she looked like all her eggs had wobbled off to the Old Folks Home back then....she must be well into her 60s

It’s strange for a woman of her age to be besotted with a mass murderer

I think she may be married, so God knows what her poor husband makes of it all ...unless he’s done a runner while she’s been baking cakes for Jeremy
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on March 09, 2020, 06:08:45 AM
The words flogging and a dead horse come to mind...

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5364656/white-house-farm-murder-scots-forensics-expert/ (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5364656/white-house-farm-murder-scots-forensics-expert/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on March 09, 2020, 12:58:10 PM
The words flogging and a dead horse come to mind...

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5364656/white-house-farm-murder-scots-forensics-expert/ (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5364656/white-house-farm-murder-scots-forensics-expert/)

This could actually work against him!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 14, 2020, 05:13:25 AM
"White House Farm - The Sequel" from Wakefield's star attention-seeker?...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 14, 2020, 08:30:11 AM
"White House Farm - The Sequel" from Wakefield's star attention-seeker?...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412)


I love how you keep finding these delicious little titbits to amuse us during lockdown, Myster!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 14, 2020, 08:47:30 AM
"White House Farm - The Sequel" from Wakefield's star attention-seeker?...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412)


Ah, so he DID watch the drama then?

On Twitter he told his campaigners he wasn’t going to watch as he wasn’t interested in the “nonsense”

It’s funny how he’s always discovering “new” evidence, which is always the “suicide note” that never existed, or the “phone call from Nevill to the police” which never happened, either


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 14, 2020, 10:20:12 AM
So, if JB and his campaigners manage to make this documentary, are you all going to watch it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 14, 2020, 10:35:28 AM
So, if JB and his campaigners manage to make this documentary, are you all going to watch it?


I wonder how the authorities will respond. Allowing this could lead to prisons being filled with film crews making docu's about every prisoner who claims innocence.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 14, 2020, 11:43:34 AM

Ah, so he DID watch the drama then?

On Twitter he told his campaigners he wasn’t going to watch as he wasn’t interested in the “nonsense”

It’s funny how he’s always discovering “new” evidence, which is always the “suicide note” that never existed, or the “phone call from Nevill to the police” which never happened, either


Would he have been allowed to watch it?  I might be wrong, but I would imagine he didn't see it, but that some of his supporters told him all about  it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on April 14, 2020, 11:46:54 AM

Would he have been allowed to watch it?  I might be wrong, but I would imagine he didn't see it, but that some of his supporters told him all about  it.
Most cons have access to a phone inside, even ones in the Isolation Wing. You can buy just about any contraband within reason. There's every chance he's got a phone and watched it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 14, 2020, 12:06:42 PM
Would he have been allowed to watch it?  I might be wrong, but I would imagine he didn't see it, but that some of his supporters told him all about  it.
Most cons have access to a phone inside, even ones in the Isolation Wing. You can buy just about any contraband within reason. There's every chance he's got a phone and watched it.
He might have a personal TV and watched WHF to compare his funeral performance to Freddie's...

'Wakefield Prison holds approximately 600 of Britain's most dangerous people (mainly sex offenders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender) and prisoners serving life sentences for violent crimes against women and children). Accommodation at the prison comprises single-occupancy cells with integral sanitation. All residential units have kitchens available for offenders to prepare their own meals. An Incentives and Earned Privileges system allows standard and enhanced offenders the opportunity of in-cell TV.'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Wakefield (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Wakefield)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 14, 2020, 12:37:51 PM
"White House Farm - The Sequel" from Wakefield's star attention-seeker?...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412)

That should be interesting  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 14, 2020, 12:38:58 PM
So, if JB and his campaigners manage to make this documentary, are you all going to watch it?

Of course - love a good comedy  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 14, 2020, 12:40:04 PM

Would he have been allowed to watch it?  I might be wrong, but I would imagine he didn't see it, but that some of his supporters told him all about  it.

Of course, he's got his. own telly - it's the internet and a mobile phone that he can't have.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 14, 2020, 01:41:43 PM
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:

Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.

We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.


https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/

In contrast

Someone tweeted

The @MoJGovUK has decided now not to specify which prisons have new confirmed covid 19 cases I wonder why this? Is this to block any media attention? Prisoners & prison staff are the forgotten victims in the pandemic shame on u
@RobertBuckland @PGA_Prisons @DannyShawBBC @POAUnion

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 15, 2020, 11:11:47 PM
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:

Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.

We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.


https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/

In contrast

Someone tweeted

The @MoJGovUK has decided now not to specify which prisons have new confirmed covid 19 cases I wonder why this? Is this to block any media attention? Prisoners & prison staff are the forgotten victims in the pandemic shame on u
@RobertBuckland @PGA_Prisons @DannyShawBBC @POAUnion


That would have been put on the Internet by his “team”

They print off all the posts and send them to him, by which time he’s weeks behind what’s been said.

It must be awfully frustrating for him seeing how people in the world are able to communicate instantly by messenger, posts, forums?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 16, 2020, 03:54:26 AM
So, if JB and his campaigners manage to make this documentary, are you all going to watch it?

I doubt any production company would waste money and embarrass themselves in the process, by making a documentary allowing JB to twist his version of events: it’d be a laughing stock.

I’d watch it, though. For a laugh...

I bet Jeremy would try to be the director if he could; maybe even play himself? He said he should have been an actor  (&^&

If he could play himself, he’d definitely instruct the wardrobe to fit him out in bespoke suits, silk ties, gold cufflinks etc...and he’d be very precious about the make-up 😤 He’d also instruct the cameras to capture his “good side”, just like he hoped the press/TV would when he attended his parents and Sheila’s funerals.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 16, 2020, 10:10:09 AM
I doubt any production company would waste money and embarrass themselves in the process, by making a documentary allowing JB to twist his version of events: it’d be a laughing stock.

I’d watch it, though. For a laugh...

I bet Jeremy would try to be the director if he could; maybe even play himself? He said he should have been an actor  (&^&

If he could play himself, he’d definitely instruct the wardrobe to fit him out in bespoke suits, silk ties, gold cufflinks etc...and he’d be very precious about the make-up 😤 He’d also instruct the cameras to capture his “good side”, just like he hoped the press/TV would when he attended his parents and Sheila’s funerals.
#

I suspect JB stopped being fussy about his attire long ago.    He is more interested in attempting to prove his innocence.  I don't think that's laughable:  he either does it because he really is innocent, or he does it because he has some kind of personality disorder that leads him to think he is when he isn't.

This forum isn't typical:  look at others, and you will find that believing in JB's innocence, or being unsure one way or the other, is not as uncommon as you might think. Just my opinion, but I think a TV programme showing the case from his point of view would be popular enough. Some would be watching it just for a laugh, as you say, but many wouldn't.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
Is Bamber the author of this bs or someone else and if so, who?

Suzette Ford made two statements, the second of which was a handwritten interview which was never presented in court.  Suzette was not asked to testify in court as a character witness for Jeremy, nor indeed were any of his friends or people who may have provided a positive account of him and a negative account of Sheila.  There are many other statements from people who knew Jeremy well and gave a warm account of him but who were never called as witnesses. The mind boggles as to why these witnesses were not called as character witnesses. One can only speculate that perhaps Jeremy’s Lawyer, Paul Terzeon of Kingsley Napley, Geoffrey Rivlin then QC, and Edmund Lawson QC, had thought that three key Defence witnesses were not suitable for the pallet of the jury; Suzette Ford a married woman from Jersey with whom Jeremy had had an affair, Brett Collins a New Zealander and homosexual, and the Iranian immigrant Farhad Emami would not make good witnesses because all three were considered outside of the social norms. Civilian witnesses for the prosecution on the other hand included conventionally married couples and conservative individuals who were all either English, middle class or well educated/professionals.[1]
https://jeremybamber.org/character-witnesses/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2020, 12:48:48 PM
#

I suspect JB stopped being fussy about his attire long ago.    He is more interested in attempting to prove his innocence.  I don't think that's laughable:  he either does it because he really is innocent, or he does it because he has some kind of personality disorder that leads him to think he is when he isn't.

This forum isn't typical:  look at others, and you will find that believing in JB's innocence, or being unsure one way or the other, is not as uncommon as you might think. Just my opinion, but I think a TV programme showing the case from his point of view would be popular enough. Some would be watching it just for a laugh, as you say, but many wouldn't.

Poppy Ann Miller
“I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller

Barbara De'Ath
I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site

“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.

“Jeremy was a normal young man, he was NOT a womanizer, it was the other way round.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death

Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent (sic)
“I had followed it in the media from day one

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 16, 2020, 01:05:03 PM
Poppy Ann Miller
“I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller

Barbara De'Ath
I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site

“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.

“Jeremy was a normal young man, he was NOT a womanizer, it was the other way round.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death

Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent (sic)
“I had followed it in the media from day one

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

Yes, Crimes That Shook Britain have already gone over the so called. 'new evidence' - that's how I became interested, it doesn't take long to see through. it though - if you're really open minded that is!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 16, 2020, 04:37:12 PM
Is Bamber the author of this bs or someone else and if so, who?

Suzette Ford made two statements, the second of which was a handwritten interview which was never presented in court.  Suzette was not asked to testify in court as a character witness for Jeremy, nor indeed were any of his friends or people who may have provided a positive account of him and a negative account of Sheila.  There are many other statements from people who knew Jeremy well and gave a warm account of him but who were never called as witnesses. The mind boggles as to why these witnesses were not called as character witnesses. One can only speculate that perhaps Jeremy’s Lawyer, Paul Terzeon of Kingsley Napley, Geoffrey Rivlin then QC, and Edmund Lawson QC, had thought that three key Defence witnesses were not suitable for the pallet of the jury; Suzette Ford a married woman from Jersey with whom Jeremy had had an affair, Brett Collins a New Zealander and homosexual, and the Iranian immigrant Farhad Emami would not make good witnesses because all three were considered outside of the social norms. Civilian witnesses for the prosecution on the other hand included conventionally married couples and conservative individuals who were all either English, middle class or well educated/professionals.[1]
https://jeremybamber.org/character-witnesses/

The majority of statements being made up of fodder, from witnesses along the lines of: Mrs Bloggs who walked her dog near the farm and said good morning to June sometimes.

Would this fall under their category of ‘fodder’ ?


“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 17, 2020, 01:08:38 AM
Poppy Ann Miller
“I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller

Barbara De'Ath
I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site

“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.

“Jeremy was a normal young man, he was NOT a womanizer, it was the other way round.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death

Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent (sic)
“I had followed it in the media from day one

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru


One thing you can always be sure of amongst his supporters is you’ll get a good laugh at how they view him  @)(++(*

To compare Jeremy Bamber to the royal family shows how seriously deluded they are!

I’ve read various quotes which I suspect have been written by the arrogant, egotistical Jeremy Bamber himself, who’s ordered one of his “staff” to publish it under a pseudonym. The surname D’Arth isn’t dissimilar to D’Arcy, and trolls often use names that have a subliminal connection to themselves...I’d throw a tenner on that being him.

His other post where he writes as himself thanking people for all their “kind emails & letters” in respect of the Corona virus is similar to that. He acts as though he’s some kind of hero who’s held in the highest esteem  (&^& (&^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 09:12:37 AM

One thing you can always be sure of amongst his supporters is you’ll get a good laugh at how they view him  @)(++(*

To compare Jeremy Bamber to the royal family she’s hw seriously deluded they are!

I’ve read various quotes which I suspect have been written by the arrogant, egotistical Jeremy Bamber himself, who’s ordered one of his “staff” to publish it under a pseudonym. The surname D’Arth isn’t dissimilar to D’Arcy, and trolls often use names that have a subliminal connection to themselves...I’d throw a tenner on that being him.

His other post where he writes as himself thanking people for all their “kind emails & letters” in respect of the Corona virus is similar to that. He acts as though he’s some kind of hero who’s held in the highest esteem  (&^& (&^&

De'Ath isn’t a pseudonym in this instance

Here’s ‘Barbara De'Ath on the Osea Caravan Park (Osea Leisure) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NX3lLfl6VCI

Barbara De'Ath has uploaded a photo of herself in the above you tube video and anyone who knows her will most probably recognise her voice

Unfortunately someone’s even added her children’s names to the video - with photos of them when they were young? (Hope they got the kids permission to do that)

On gossip - Barbara says ’some of us don’t give a pigs burb about any of it’

Barbara De'Ath
I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site

“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.

“Jeremy was a normal young man, he was NOT a womanizer, it was the other way round.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 09:33:55 AM
De'Ath isn’t a pseudonym in this instance

Here’s ‘Barbara De'Ath on the Osea Caravan Park (Osea Leisure) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NX3lLfl6VCI

Barbara De'Ath has uploaded a photo of herself in the above you tube video and anyone who knows her will most probably recognise her voice

Unfortunately someone’s even added her children’s names to the video - with photos of them when they were young? (Hope they got the kids permission to do that)

On gossip - Barbara says ’some of us don’t give a pigs burb about any of it’

Barbara De'Ath sounds like she has an ‘axe to grind’ with the surviving family - her bias is clear
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 17, 2020, 10:12:21 AM
Barbara De'Ath sounds like she has an ‘axe to grind’ with the surviving family - her bias is clear

According to her there was a change of management style following the case, with more emphasis on profit.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 10:14:48 AM
According to her there was a change of management style following the case, with more emphasis on profit.
According to her Bamber was ‘normal’

https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%40GrumpyGran1948%20Bamber&src=typed_query

Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
One families experiences at the Bamber's Osea Caravan Park... #JeremyBamber
@GrumpyGran1948
 https://youtu.be/NX3lLfl6VCI  via
@YouTube
9:07 AM · Sep 17, 2016·Twitter Web Client

JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
Nov 5, 2019
Barbara Ann de'Ath
@GrumpyGran1948
 spent many holidays with her family at #JeremyBamber and his mother and a couple of other relatives Osea Caravan Park.
She said Jeremy worked there and was never rude and her opinion of him was that he was shy.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 17, 2020, 10:19:19 AM
According to her Bamber was ‘normal’

https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%40GrumpyGran1948%20Bamber&src=typed_query

Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
One families experiences at the Bamber's Osea Caravan Park... #JeremyBamber
@GrumpyGran1948
 https://youtu.be/NX3lLfl6VCI  via
@YouTube
9:07 AM · Sep 17, 2016·Twitter Web Client

Despite the gossip I have seen no evidence that he wasn't.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 11:04:16 AM
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/

“It’s a stark warning to us how many people have already died including those of my generation. An anthem of my youth was ‘I Love Rock ‘n’ Roll’ by Alan Merrill who sadly just lost his life to the virus.

?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 11:06:57 AM
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:

Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.

We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.


https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/

In what year were Bamber’s ‘dirty protests’ and what has he told the CT & his supporters about them?

Would the professional and compassionate prison officers, who had to clean up after him, remember the dates ?

The dirty side of prison; cleaning after a dirty protest
In the UK, prison authorities are responsible for the welfare of inmates during their detainment. This includes the provision of hygienic prison and holding cells. While it’s not always possible to stop a dirty protest from happening, it is essential for the clean up and disinfection of the affected areas as soon as possible to help prevent the spread of disease, which is a particular risk in confined spaces like prisons.

Tuberculosis, HIV, and Hepatitis C are just some of the risks to prison staff and other inmates during a dirty protest where bodily fluids, including blood and faeces, are smeared across cell walls or even communal areas.

Cleaning the affected areas requires specialist personal protective equipment (PPE) and the necessary products and equipment to fully clean and sanatise the areas.

https://www.idealresponse.co.uk/blog/the-dirty-side-of-prison-cleaning-after-a-dirty-protest/

And how much ‘specialist personal protective equipment’ PPE is used up during the clean ups?

What has Bamber said about these protests and of the risks he put these officers under?

Does Aunt Agatha know?

Trudi Benjamin?

Anyone?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 17, 2020, 11:17:48 AM
De'Ath isn’t a pseudonym in this instance

Here’s ‘Barbara De'Ath on the Osea Caravan Park (Osea Leisure) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NX3lLfl6VCI

Barbara De'Ath has uploaded a photo of herself in the above you tube video and anyone who knows her will most probably recognise her voice

Unfortunately someone’s even added her children’s names to the video - with photos of them when they were young? (Hope they got the kids permission to do that)

On gossip - Barbara says ’some of us don’t give a pigs burb about any of it’


She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?

I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢

If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 17, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
According to her there was a change of management style following the case, with more emphasis on profit.

Prices do increase, you know...

And her caravan looked terrible; no wonder they wanted to tidy the site up. It would’ve put other people off renting.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 11:23:33 AM

She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?

I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢

If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤

“Urine, blood, vomit, and faeces. Smeared over prison cell walls, floors, and ceilings. It sounds like the aftermath of something traumatic, let alone a situation prisoners have deliberately created.
But that’s exactly what a dirty protest is”
https://www.idealresponse.co.uk/blog/the-dirty-side-of-prison-cleaning-after-a-dirty-protest/

Some prisoners also smear it over themselves

Think about that for a minute

Bamber chose to do this
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 17, 2020, 11:37:47 AM

She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?

I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢

If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤


From memory, wasn't there some sort of contretemps about the age of vans on the site? Older vans put to the back? I'm reliably informed that such is what all site owners do -tough on van owners, many of whom protest, but it ensures the site maintains the standard they want.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 11:45:32 AM

She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?

I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢

If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤

Would this have occurred to Barbara De’Ath ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 11:47:02 AM

If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤

Did he have a girlfriend around this time?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 17, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
“Urine, blood, vomit, and faeces. Smeared over prison cell walls, floors, and ceilings. It sounds like the aftermath of something traumatic, let alone a situation prisoners have deliberately created.
But that’s exactly what a dirty protest is”
https://www.idealresponse.co.uk/blog/the-dirty-side-of-prison-cleaning-after-a-dirty-protest/

Some prisoners also smear it over themselves

Think about that for a minute

Bamber chose to do this

I have to admit, it disgusts me too.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 17, 2020, 11:56:21 AM

She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?

I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢

If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤

I imagine that the vast majority of people who have a view of any sort regarding this case, did not know the Bambers.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
I have to admit, it disgusts me too.

Did Bamber start with a ‘blanket protest’ then escalate to a ‘dirty protest’ & did he ever go on a ‘hunger strike’ ?

What were Bamber’s reasons for his ‘dirty protests’ ?

Following both the blanket and dirty protest, several IRA members began a hunger strike on 27th October 1980. This was aimed at restoring political status for paramilitary prisoners by securing five demands:

1.The right not to wear a prison uniform
2.The right not to do prison work
3.The right of free association with other prisoners and to organise educational and recreational pursuits
4.The right to one visit, one letter, and one parcel per week
5.The full restoration of remission lost through the previous protests

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 12:19:30 PM
I have to admit, it disgusts me too.

It doesn’t seem to have put Aunt Agatha off?

You do scrape the bottom!!

What about Bamber and his ‘dirty protests’ ?

Of the lock of hair she claims



I've kept it for DNA purposes if it's ever needed in the future to clear his name

Imagine all the DNA Bamber willingly gave Up during his ‘dirty protests’
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 01:08:49 PM

What about Bamber and his ‘dirty protests’ ?

Imagine all the DNA Bamber willingly gave Up during his ‘dirty protests’

Who was visiting him around this time or communicating with him?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Who was visiting him around this time or communicating with him?

And who was he talking to when this happened?


The murderer Jeremy Bamber, who is in the 18th year of a life sentence for killing five members of his family, is recovering from a knife attack by a fellow inmate at a high security prison.
The 43-year-old prisoner, who was described as "evil beyond belief" by the judge at his trial in 1986, was treated at York district hospital for throat cuts after the incident at Full Sutton jail, near the city.

It is understood that Bamber was "jumped" from behind while talking to a woman friend on a permitted call from the prison
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jun/01/prisonsandprobation.society


And did the women friend ‘tip off’ the media?


”MASS murderer Jeremy Bamber has been stabbed in the neck after a gang of prisoners pounced on him in while he was talking on the telephone in jail

Bamber was talking on the telephone when the attack happened. He told the caller there were a lot of people gathering round and then the phone went dead.

At first the caller believed the attack was far worse, with reports the gang had slit Bamber's neck and just missed his jugular artery by an inch.

The caller, who asked not to be named, told the East Anglian Daily Times that Bamber had been in contact yesterday to say he was fine.

The prison governor had spoken to Bamber about the attack, said the caller, who added: "It's happened in the past - all prisoners get attacked.".

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/bamber-stabbed-in-jail-knife-attack-1-65032

The assailant's knife came within a quarter-inch of cutting Bamber's carotid artery, his lawyer Giovanni Di Stefano said, adding that his client was "very, very lucky to be alive".
Mr Di Stefano said Bamber was talking to a female friend on the phone when an inmate attacked him from behind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3762995.stm

GIOVANNI DI STEFANO
@DEVILSADVOKAT
WAS MI6 INVOLVED IN A SERIES OF MURDERS THAT LEAD TO JEREMY BAMBER JAILED FOR LIFE -GIOVANNI DI STEFANO http://onlinepublishingcompany.info/content/read_more/complexInfobox/site_news/infobox/elements/template/default/active_id/7331… #JeremyBamber
4:47 pm · 13 Oct 2013·Twitter for Websites
https://mobile.twitter.com/DEVILSADVOKAT/status/389417208201228288
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 17, 2020, 04:09:12 PM
Is Bamber the author of this bs or someone else and if so, who?

Suzette Ford made two statements, the second of which was a handwritten interview which was never presented in court.  Suzette was not asked to testify in court as a character witness for Jeremy, nor indeed were any of his friends or people who may have provided a positive account of him and a negative account of Sheila.  There are many other statements from people who knew Jeremy well and gave a warm account of him but who were never called as witnesses. The mind boggles as to why these witnesses were not called as character witnesses. One can only speculate that perhaps Jeremy’s Lawyer, Paul Terzeon of Kingsley Napley, Geoffrey Rivlin then QC, and Edmund Lawson QC, had thought that three key Defence witnesses were not suitable for the pallet of the jury; Suzette Ford a married woman from Jersey with whom Jeremy had had an affair, Brett Collins a New Zealander and homosexual, and the Iranian immigrant Farhad Emami would not make good witnesses because all three were considered outside of the social norms. Civilian witnesses for the prosecution on the other hand included conventionally married couples and conservative individuals who were all either English, middle class or well educated/professionals.[1]
https://jeremybamber.org/character-witnesses/

Will Bamber’s supporters back these claims?

Rhona Friedman was introduced to the case by the late investigative journalist Bob Woffinden who was convinced of the couple’s innocence. The journalist co-wrote a book on the case Bad Show: the Quiz, the Cough and the Millionaire Major which inspired a stage-play.

Theatregoers were given the opportunity to take the place of the jury via electronic voting. Overwhelmingly audiences found in favour of the couple; although not Chris Tarrant who, although he told the court he had no suspicions on the night, only last weekend wrote a piece for the Daily Mail saying Ingram was guilty. It is not known how the trial judge, Judge Geoffrey Rivlin QC, who also saw the production, voted.

“At the trial at Southwark Crown Court in 2003, Rivlin told the jury that when Ingram was ‘either a genuine millionaire or a fraudster’. After deliberating for nearly 14 hours, they opted for the latter and the Ingrams received an 18 month prison sentence suspended for two years and Whittock received 12 months.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/appeal-planned-in-coughing-major-case/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 12:33:30 AM
In what year were Bamber’s ‘dirty protests’ and what has he told the CT & his supporters about them?

Would the professional and compassionate prison officers, who had to clean up after him, remember the dates ?

And how much ‘specialist personal protective equipment’ PPE is used up during the clean ups?

What has Bamber said about these protests and of the risks he put these officers under?

Does Aunt Agatha know?

Trudi Benjamin?

Anyone?


Have I read this correctly, Nicholas?

Is this Jeremy Bamber wearing his “normal” mask discussing how he smeared his own faeces on walls for prison staff to clean up?!

He’s speaking as though it’s him who’s the prisoner governor!

!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 07:34:09 AM

Have I read this correctly, Nicholas?

Is this Jeremy Bamber wearing his “normal” mask discussing how he smeared his own faeces on walls for prison staff to clean up?!

He’s speaking as though it’s him who’s the prisoner governor!

!

No it’s not a message from the prison ‘Governor’

Bamber doesn’t mention his ‘dirty protests’ hence why I’ve asked Aunt Agatha or someone to clarify

Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.

We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.


https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 08:01:08 AM

Have I read this correctly, Nicholas?

Is this Jeremy Bamber wearing his “normal” mask discussing how he smeared his own faeces on walls for prison staff to clean up?!

He’s speaking as though it’s him who’s the prisoner governor!

!

What’s ‘dignified’ about this?

Did he smear feaces on himself too?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 09:14:09 AM
“Urine, blood, vomit, and faeces. Smeared over prison cell walls, floors, and ceilings. It sounds like the aftermath of something traumatic, let alone a situation prisoners have deliberately created.
But that’s exactly what a dirty protest is”
https://www.idealresponse.co.uk/blog/the-dirty-side-of-prison-cleaning-after-a-dirty-protest/

Some prisoners also smear it over themselves

Think about that for a minute

Bamber chose to do this


Bamber simply demonstrates how blood, urine, faeces etc doesn’t bother him; after all, he’d been surrounded by blood when he massacred his family — even saw his dad’s brain exposed — so he may have even enjoyed the dirty protests. Brought back “thrilling” memories for him...

His hypocrisy when he talks about it in his mundane blog, shows how twisted his mind is. He talks like a concerned governor, but conveniently “forgets” to mention he was one of the culprits who smeared his own sh*t on the walls for prison staff to clean up. He’s revolting on every level.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 09:22:43 AM
Would this have occurred to Barbara De’Ath ?


No, it wouldn’t have — she even spoke about him like he was a young teenage boy: he was a 23-year-old man.

She only spotted him doing a few minor jobs a few times, so how could she determine his character when she hadn’t even had a conversation with him? She sounds a tad dense; she assumes there’s only one route he could have taken on the bicycle...she’s an embarrassment and the type who has regular readings with the local tea leaf reader and believes all the rubbish they spout.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
Despite the gossip I have seen no evidence that he wasn't.


How would you have seen any evidence, G-Unit?

Even people who DID see him/know him only saw the mask he wore for them. He’s hardly going to show his true colours to people. Psychopaths excel at hiding them.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 09:30:03 AM
Did he have a girlfriend around this time?


I’m not sure, but he probably kept his sexual activities secret.

There’s no reports of him having a teenage sweetheart, like many boys do..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 09:34:15 AM
What’s ‘dignified’ about this?

Did he smear feaces on himself too?

Possibly...

Maybe Agatha knows about it?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 09:37:34 AM
I imagine that the vast majority of people who have a view of any sort regarding this case, did not know the Bambers.

Do you mean like his campaign team? They didn’t know the Bambers’, either.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 09:38:36 AM

Have I read this correctly, Nicholas?

Is this Jeremy Bamber wearing his “normal” mask discussing how he smeared his own faeces on walls for prison staff to clean up?!

He’s speaking as though it’s him who’s the prisoner governor!

!

Maybe he wanted to sound like the prison governor ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 09:44:00 AM
Possibly...

Maybe Agatha knows about it?

Don’t suppose she’s thought about it or considered it’s possible significance ?

Can’t say I blame her, imagining a grown adult like Bamber (with no mental health issues remember) someone you ‘care about’ covering themselves and the walls in excrement isn’t a very nice thought nor is it pleasant to witness and then to have to imagine someone else, a complete stranger having to clean up after him?

Wonder if whoever cleaned up after him were physically sick afterwards?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 09:49:59 AM
Maybe he wanted to sound like the prison governor ?

Oh, absolutely

But it’s the hypocrisy of him...and how he thinks everyone is thick

His Personality Disorder is more extreme than some people realise

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 10:05:10 AM
Oh, absolutely

But it’s the hypocrisy of him...and how he thinks everyone is thick

His Personality Disorder is more extreme than some people realise

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 10:09:33 AM
Oh, absolutely

But it’s the hypocrisy of him...and how he thinks everyone is thick

His Personality Disorder is more extreme than some people realise

 @)(++(*

he does doesn’t he

Some people are apparently fascinated by his behaviour and how he keeps appealing his 5 life sentences & full life term?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2020, 10:24:16 AM

How would you have seen any evidence, G-Unit?

Even people who DID see him/know him only saw the mask he wore for them. He’s hardly going to show his true colours to people. Psychopaths excel at hiding them.

So everything you say about him is mere speculation based on no evidence at all.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 10:49:37 AM
His hypocrisy when he talks about it in his mundane blog, shows how twisted his mind is. He talks like a concerned governor, but conveniently “forgets” to mention he was one of the culprits who smeared his own sh*t on the walls for prison staff to clean up. He’s revolting on every level.

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy”
(Leon Seltzer - 2018)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/evolution-the-self/201808/the-gullibility-the-narcissist-what-you-need-know

No mention of how he’s treating other inmates

We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison”

He’s no real idea of what we are doing

How close does he usually get to other inmates when he socialises?

Who does he usually socialise with?

What prisoners are in the prison with him or he would normally get close to?

This article https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1231940/white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bamber-itv-drama-true-crime-prison-spt suggests he’s ‘vulnerable’ & ‘protected’

Cody Lachey, who was formerly an inmate at HMP Manchester and is now an advocate for prisoners, told Express.co.uk that certain inmates are treated as "vulnerable prisoners" or VPs and held on a protection wing.
Those on the wing tend to be high-profile prisoners, sex offenders, child killers, former police officers, former prison guards and people who have testified against others.
This is because these people are likely to be attacked if placed with the general prison population, according to Mr Lachey.
He said: “If you see one of them, you have to attack them on sight.”
Bamber is both a high-profile inmate and a child killer, having murdered two six-year-old boys, meaning he is a prime candidate for a place on the protection ward, given that he is likely to be a target for attacks.


What’s Bamber’s understanding of ’following strict social distancing measures in the prison” and what reason would he have for not doing so normally anyway?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 10:53:00 AM

Bamber simply demonstrates how blood, urine, faeces etc doesn’t bother him; after all, he’d been surrounded by blood when he massacred his family — even saw his dad’s brain exposed — so he may have even enjoyed the dirty protests. Brought back “thrilling” memories for him...

Bet he downplays these facts to his supporters, minimising them

What excuses has he given I wonder?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 18, 2020, 11:55:38 AM
Bet he downplays these facts to his supporters, minimising them

What excuses has he given I wonder?

It does demonstrate that he isn't the nice, upper middle class boy that he tries to portray.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 12:16:21 PM
Oh, absolutely

But it’s the hypocrisy of him...and how he thinks everyone is thick

His Personality Disorder is more extreme than some people realise

‘For as rigidly constricted as the narcissist’s character structure is, their fabricated, super-sized “false self” still requires the assistance of others to remain securely (though artificially) inflated.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 12:22:06 PM
It does demonstrate that he isn't the nice, upper middle class boy that he tries to portray.

Mike O’Brien on Bamber,

He stood out for me, and he seemed lost just like I once was when I first went to prison”

https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 18, 2020, 12:24:10 PM
Mike O’Brien on Bamber,

He stood out for me, and he seemed lost just like I once was when I first went to prison”

https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177

A man for all seasons.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 12:26:57 PM
Anyone know about this case from 2011 - it mentions another case of a Michael O’Brien not to be confused with the one above 

He murdered his enemies. Now from his cell, Colin Gunn is murdering British justice by insisting on his 'human rights' by Steve Bird
“Last week, the Prisons and Probation Ombudsman kow-towed to his demands to have official records of his behaviour in jail given to him without sensitive details being censored.
Among the details to be handed to him from now on are the names of staff who have logged comments on his behaviour.
And at one point he was even allowed to contact friends and family from his cell through Facebook. All of which serves as an added insult to the relatives of those he killed or who endured his mafia‑style beatings.
Javed Khan, the chief executive of Victim Support, speaks for those still protected by police in case of revenge attacks by Gunn’s hoodlums.
‘Given that people have lost their lives and liberty because of Colin Gunn’s crimes, it is disgraceful and an offence to his victims and their families that he is exploiting legal loopholes to advance his own freedom and rights,’ he says.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2072945/He-murdered-enemies-Now-cell-hes-murdering-British-justice-insisting-human-rights.html

Nottingham ganglord Colin Gunn loses human rights case 2014
In May 2013, he was transferred from HMP Frankland in County Durham to what was described by a national newspaper as a "Silence of the Lambs"-style cell.
The court heard Gunn had arranged for an inmate to pass a note to a prison officer on which was written the address of the officer's disabled brother, telling him, "Well, you now work for me and Colin Gunn".
Gunn's barrister, Philip Rule, argued that the four months in top security unlawfully interfered with his ability to receive visitors and therefore his right to respect for private and family life under the European Convention on Human Rights.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-27331112

Barrister Philip Rule explains the importance of appealing
https://insidetime.org/appeal-against-unlawful-ipp-succeeds-eight-years-after-imposition/


Was Bamber ever kept in the ‘silence of lambs’ style cell during his time at Frankland?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 01:00:16 PM
So everything you say about him is mere speculation based on no evidence at all.

The difference between you and me, G-Unit, is I'm basing my opinions on the FACTS I’ve read about him, including him being found Guilty on five counts of murder, two failed appeals; one failed appeal at the Human Rights Court; his previous conviction for burglary & theft; him growing and dealing in drugs; his callous behaviour after the deaths; how he sold off valuables which weren’t yet his; how he tried to sell Sheila’s nude photos for £20k to The Sun, not considering the humiliation & betrayal when she’d only been dead over a week — effectively “dancing on her grave” after he’d killed her; killing off June’s dog; partying, holidaying, laughing, gorging on expensive meals, downing Champagne when his family had only been dead just days —  and all those who knew him well and said what a horrible cold calculating character he had.


Your views aren’t based on any of those irrefutable FACTS: your views are based on fairytales, dreams, and lies you want to believe so your bubble of fantasy isn’t burst
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 01:07:33 PM
Don’t suppose she’s thought about it or considered it’s possible significance ?

Can’t say I blame her, imagining a grown adult like Bamber (with no mental health issues remember) someone you ‘care about’ covering themselves and the walls in excrement isn’t a very nice thought nor is it pleasant to witness and then to have to imagine someone else, a complete stranger having to clean up after him?

Wonder if whoever cleaned up after him were physically sick afterwards?

I wonder if he washed that pony tail before giving it to Agatha?

Was it even his?

It’s a very strange story as I’ve been reliable informed that inmates can’t give visitors gifts, nor send them...maybe he’s into smuggling now.

Back to him smearing his faeces on walls and his naked body; did he say what he was protesting at? He isn’t a political prisoner. So what was his beef?

I suspect he just enjoyed it, and got a sadistic kick out of knowing the prison staff had to be subjected to the stench and sight of what he rubbed all over the walls and his body, and knowing they’d have to wear PPE to clean it all up.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 01:10:05 PM
I wonder if he washed that pony tail before giving it to Agatha?

Was it even his?

It’s a very strange story as I’ve been reliable informed that inmates can’t give visitors gifts, nor send them...maybe he’s into smuggling now.

Back to him smearing his faeces on walls and his naked body; did he say what he was protesting at? He isn’t a political prisoner. So what was his beef?

I suspect he just enjoyed it, and got a sadistic kick out of knowing the prison staff had to be subjected to the stench and sight of what he rubbed all over the walls and his body, and knowing they’d have to wear PPE to clean it all up.

She’s not mentioned what it smelled like then or now - no idea - can only imagine  *&^^&

Who knows?

Aunt Agathas not saying why he did what he did

His actions show he couldn’t care less about prison staff

Coprophilia also called scatophilia or scat is the paraphilia involving sexual arousal and pleasure from feces’
Although there may be no connection between coprophilia and sadomasochism (SM), the limited data on the former comes from studies of the latter.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophilia

Wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn he smirks when he regales his supporters with his accounts of what he did though
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
‘For as rigidly constricted as the narcissist’s character structure is, their fabricated, super-sized “false self” still requires the assistance of others to remain securely (though artificially) inflated.

That’s so, so true.

Bamber needs his supporters, but not for the reason they think. He knows he doesn’t have a hope in hell of ever being released, so he relies on his fawning supporters to entertain him. Besides alleviating his boredom and dull rigid routine, he gets little ego massages when he receives his “fan mail” and updates from his most devoted campaigners, who he really can’t stand but they feed his ego,  and beggars can’t be choosers...

He sets them tasks, and off they trot doing as they’re instructed. Then they report back, having printed off all the hard work they’ve done for him, all the long thought out letters they’ve sent to MP’s, police, lawyers etc; printing off all the online replies he’s received  to his social media accounts, blogs, campaign pages, everything that names HIM. He loves to see his name circulated, he loves the limelight, and must have felt flat when WhiteHouseFarm ended and people forgot all about him again and no longer mentioned him on Twitter.

Actually, what would really drive him to distraction is if no-one ever discussed him again.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 01:33:54 PM
“What, reading between the lines, this characterization reveals is that, if it’s to feel stable and secure, the narcissist’s self-aggrandizing sense of superiority depends on others’ constant confirmation. And this need to have their alleged five-star glory outwardly validated is precisely what makes them dependent on others, rendering them vulnerable to those who, calculatingly, would corroborate their “specialness”—but only to achieve their own ends. Moreover, many times these ends amount to nothing more than avenging themselves against the narcissist who, in the past, callously exploited them, and by doing so left them with powerful feelings of anger and resentment.

Having been taken advantage of and inhumanely objectified, these victims felt not only exploited but demeaned, insulted, even humiliated—and all because of the narcissist’s egregious lack of empathy. So, in the simplest of terms, the DSM’s terse overview of the most distinctive narcissistic qualities suggests the interpersonal dynamic that accounts for how the narcissist’s manipulations can lead to their victims’ retaliatory counter-manipulations.

It’s important to explain this phenomenon on the basis of what psychoanalytic theory labels “narcissistic supply”—that which all malignant narcissists must rely on to fill the gnawing vacuum residing deep inside themselves. Emotionally disconnected from others, narcissists cannot value anyone independently of how they might address the demands of their ego, which are insatiable. So they’re destined to pursue others, but only to the degree that they can “supply” the narcissist with the attention, affirmation, admiration, praise, and respect they crave. For only then can the narcissist keep safely buried whatever ancient doubts they still harbor about their fundamental worth.


The psychology of wickedness: psychopathy & sadism
http://drreidmeloy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1997_ThePsychologyof.pdf
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 02:09:22 PM
In what year were Bamber’s ‘dirty protests’ and what has he told the CT & his supporters about them?

Would the professional and compassionate prison officers, who had to clean up after him, remember the dates ?

And how much ‘specialist personal protective equipment’ PPE is used up during the clean ups?

What has Bamber said about these protests and of the risks he put these officers under?

Does Aunt Agatha know?

Trudi Benjamin?

Anyone?

*&^^&

Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Replying to @GeenErica
Hopefully another day nearer to justice.  Thinking of you all.


R v Benjamin David Geen
https://bengeen.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/geen-judgment.pdf


“He was fond of self-aggrandisement," Mr Austin-Smith told the jury.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.crime


Detective Superintendent Andy Taylor, who led the murder investigation, said: "Ben Geen abused this position of trust.
"We may never know what motivated him to select and poison his victims.
"It is clear that he wanted to be the centre of attention and in order to fuel this desire, brought some of his patients to the brink of death and coldly murdered two of them."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4918462.stm
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 04:15:48 PM
*&^^&

Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Replying to @GeenErica
Hopefully another day nearer to justice.  Thinking of you all.


R v Benjamin David Geen
https://bengeen.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/geen-judgment.pdf


“He was fond of self-aggrandisement," Mr Austin-Smith told the jury.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.crime


Detective Superintendent Andy Taylor, who led the murder investigation, said: "Ben Geen abused this position of trust.
"We may never know what motivated him to select and poison his victims.
"It is clear that he wanted to be the centre of attention and in order to fuel this desire, brought some of his patients to the brink of death and coldly murdered two of them."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4918462.stm


Sorry to go off topic, but is Ben the son of Trudie Benjamin?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 04:26:21 PM

Sorry to go off topic, but is Ben the son of Trudie Benjamin?

No it’s another case she supports
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 05:36:59 PM
No it’s another case she supports

Well, I quickly read some of Ben’s appeal hearing, and he’s clearly guilty.

Does Trudie have a habit of trying to get convicted mass murderers freed?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 05:49:29 PM
Well, I quickly read some of Ben’s appeal hearing, and he’s clearly guilty.

Does Trudie have a habit of trying to get convicted mass murderers freed?

Seems so

(Mr Justice Crane said Geen suffered no mental health problems but had “an abnormal attitude to human life” - Telegraph)

She tweets nonsense

Tru Benjamin Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
It has been suggested #JeremyBamber deliberately removed the phone from the bedroom that his father slept in at #WhiteHouseFarm  so he could not call police when Jeremy allegedly broke into the house to kill the family.
This was a ridiculous suggestion.
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/telephones


Tru Benjamin Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
21h
#WhiteHouseFarm
The prosecution would have you believe #JeremyBamber had the power to cause thunderstorms - a theory as unlikely as the one that he'd killed his own family, as this video on the telephones explains.
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/with_replies



Anyone know how Bamber’s JR had been paid for?

https://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/news/2019/12/jeremy-bamber-judicial-review-against-the-crown-prosecution-service-statement
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2020, 06:11:22 PM
The difference between you and me, G-Unit, is I'm basing my opinions on the FACTS I’ve read about him, including him being found Guilty on five counts of murder, two failed appeals; one failed appeal at the Human Rights Court; his previous conviction for burglary & theft; him growing and dealing in drugs; his callous behaviour after the deaths; how he sold off valuables which weren’t yet his; how he tried to sell Sheila’s nude photos for £20k to The Sun, not considering the humiliation & betrayal when she’d only been dead over a week — effectively “dancing on her grave” after he’d killed her; killing off June’s dog; partying, holidaying, laughing, gorging on expensive meals, downing Champagne when his family had only been dead just days —  and all those who knew him well and said what a horrible cold calculating character he had.


Your views aren’t based on any of those irrefutable FACTS: your views are based on fairytales, dreams, and lies you want to believe so your bubble of fantasy isn’t burst

I though psychopaths wore a mask hiding their true nature? He wasn't a very good one then if he failed to fool all those who knew him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
I though psychopaths wore a mask hiding their true nature? He wasn't a very good one then if he failed to fool all those who knew him.
There’s no such thing as a good psychopath.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 06:23:48 PM
I though psychopaths wore a mask hiding their true nature? He wasn't a very good one then if he failed to fool all those who knew him.


A “good” psychopath ?!

G-Unit, Jeremy Bamber is a psychopath — he’s just not a particularly bright one.

He can fool the gullible, though....
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 18, 2020, 09:53:13 PM
Wouldn't be surprised in the least if this originated in HMP Full Sutton.

?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 18, 2020, 10:34:23 PM
?

Who’s David Hender?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2020, 07:21:27 AM

A “good” psychopath ?!

G-Unit, Jeremy Bamber is a psychopath — he’s just not a particularly bright one.

He can fool the gullible, though....

So psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, but Jeremy Bamber wasn't?

One of the main traits of the psychopathic brain type is manipulation; they are much better at it than the general population.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-psychopaths-think-theyre-successfully-fooling-people-in-their-minds
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2020, 08:19:04 AM
So psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, but Jeremy Bamber wasn't?

One of the main traits of the psychopathic brain type is manipulation; they are much better at it than the general population.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-psychopaths-think-theyre-successfully-fooling-people-in-their-minds
Ultimately no he wasn’t- he’s been in prison for the last 35 years, ergo he was found out.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 19, 2020, 09:16:15 AM
*&^^&

Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Replying to @GeenErica
Hopefully another day nearer to justice.  Thinking of you all.


R v Benjamin David Geen
https://bengeen.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/geen-judgment.pdf


He was fond of self-aggrandisement," Mr Austin-Smith told the jury.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.crime


Detective Superintendent Andy Taylor, who led the murder investigation, said: "Ben Geen abused this position of trust.
"We may never know what motivated him to select and poison his victims.
"It is clear that he wanted to be the centre of attention and in order to fuel this desire, brought some of his patients to the brink of death and coldly murdered two of them."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4918462.stm

From same article,

The narcissist’s self-serving defenses can end up making them defenseless.
It’s supremely ironic. Narcissists are notorious for ruthlessly manipulating others to gain a strategic advantage over them. Yet they’re exceptionally vulnerable to being duped themselves because of their powerful psychological defenses, which—if recognized—can be vigorously used against the To adopt a common expression: “The bigger they [think they] are, the harder they fall.”

The DSM-5, the standard manual for diagnosing mental and emotional disorders, lists nine criteria for determining whether an individual is afflicted with this serious disorder. And this post will demonstrate how virtually all of these criteria indirectly suggest pathological narcissists’ curious susceptibility to others’ outmaneuvering them. For as rigidly constricted as the narcissist’s character structure is, their fabricated, super-sized “false self” still requires the assistance of others to remain securely (though artificially) inflated.


Ben Geen’s mother tweeted,

”There’s much prosecution evidence that should never of been allowed to be put before judge and jury, the false and flawed evidence was used to convict our son an innocent NHS nurse for crimes that did not occur.

Wonder if she’s referring to the syringe(s) ?
https://bengeen.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/geen-judgment.pdf


Does Trudi Benjamin know what “evidence’ Ben Geen’s mother alludes to?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 19, 2020, 10:33:01 AM
Yes, Crimes That Shook Britain have already gone over the so called. 'new evidence' - that's how I became interested, it doesn't take long to see through. it though - if you're really open minded that is!


I watched the above last night, and it didn't make me in any way certain that JB is guilty.

I don't know this case well, by any stretch of the imagination, but am I supposed to think the "new evidence" (phone logs, police logs, etc) are all fake?  As far as I could see, IF  they are genuine, they really do cast doubt on JB's guilt. I'm trying to be open minded, but Nevill could have phoned the police, and there could have been a conversation with somebody inside the farm , according to these documents, IF they are genuine. The argument I often hear, that "inside the farm" doesn't actually mean "inside the farmhouse" , but "inside the grounds", could be taken either way, IMO.  All depends how one wants to read it.

Any idea why this stuff has come to light so long after the event?  How did it come to be released?  Or, has someone really just invented it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: barrier on April 19, 2020, 10:43:39 AM

I watched the above last night, and it didn't make me in any way certain that JB is guilty.

I don't know this case well, by any stretch of the imagination, but am I supposed to think the "new evidence" (phone logs, police logs, etc) are all fake?  As far as I could see, IF  they are genuine, they really do cast doubt on JB's guilt. I'm trying to be open minded, but Nevill could have phoned the police, and there could have been a conversation with somebody inside the farm , according to these documents, IF they are genuine. The argument I often hear, that "inside the farm" doesn't actually mean "inside the farmhouse" , but "inside the grounds", could be taken either way, IMO.  All depends how one wants to read it.

Any idea why this stuff has come to light so long after the event?  How did it come to be released?  Or, has someone really just invented it?

Surely with Taff Jones and his seniors holding the view that it was murder/suicide also the inquest agreed any evidence being hidden would be against that view.Caveat I'm not suggesting such a thing would occur,but that would surely be more plausible.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 19, 2020, 11:05:07 AM
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:

Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.

We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.


https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/

Interesting how Trudi Benjamin doesn’t appear to have ‘liked’ Dr Michael Naughton’s tweets here?

Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
Apr 14
We need to know how many people in prison, both prisoners and prison staff, have: 1. Contracted coronavirus; 2. Died of coronavirus; and, 3. Recovered from coronavirus. We have a democratic right to this data and to know what is being done about it. Why will they not tell us?

Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
9h
This data & the data on deaths of prisoners & staff from coronavirus strengthens & adds to the fears about coronavirus in prisons. Those who have a duty of care to protect against such foreseeable & avoidable deaths, & those that will surely follow, need to be held to account.

Could this be why he was requesting it maybe?

He has 377 Followers (many of whom appear vulnerable)  and is Following 21

Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
Prisons cannot cope at the best of times & are totally unequipped to protect prisoners or staff from contracting &/or dying from coronavirus. There has been sufficient time for those in authority to act but they have chosen not to. Can anything be done to prevent the inevitable?

Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
I am at a total loss to know what to say or do. It has become increasingly evident that the lives of prisoners & prison staff do not matter & the democratic process for trying to get government to fulfil its duty & protect against the deleterious impacts of coronavirus is a myth.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 11:33:02 AM

I watched the above last night, and it didn't make me in any way certain that JB is guilty.

I don't know this case well, by any stretch of the imagination, but am I supposed to think the "new evidence" (phone logs, police logs, etc) are all fake?  As far as I could see, IF  they are genuine, they really do cast doubt on JB's guilt. I'm trying to be open minded, but Nevill could have phoned the police, and there could have been a conversation with somebody inside the farm , according to these documents, IF they are genuine. The argument I often hear, that "inside the farm" doesn't actually mean "inside the farmhouse" , but "inside the grounds", could be taken either way, IMO.  All depends how one wants to read it.

Any idea why this stuff has come to light so long after the event?  How did it come to be released?  Or, has someone really just invented it?

I think the paperwork is genuine but personally I see it as evidence of sloppiness and poor communication as opposed to anything else.

The paperwork purporting to be a tel call from NB is almost certainly info regurgitated internally from one source ie JB.

There's not a shred of evidence that anyone within the farmhouse communicated with anyone outside.

There's also a police log which states one male and one female in the kitchen.  This was based on PC Collins putting his head above above the parapet to take a look at the kitchen.  It seems he mistook NB for SC.  When the firearms team entered shortly afterwards PC Collins realised NB was in fact male and radioed through to communicate this fact. Hence a log details one female and one male in kitchen.

Unlike today officers were not wearing body cams but relying on walkie talkies where they commincated events to a note taker elsewhere.

All sorts of lurid theories exist that SC shot herself once in the kitchen and then again upstairs which Dr Vanezis and the defence pathologist ruled out.

Mike Tesko on the Blue forum has even suggested the police shot SC which again doesn't fit with any of the ballistics and pathological evidence.

mrswah you asked why I don't rate SL's book and its in part because he believed at the time of writing that these aspects support JB when there's no basis for them.

They're worth mentioning because they show by today's standards it was very poor in terms of paperwork and communication but that's it.  To suggest they're evidence of anything else muddies the water and makes JB/his case look very weak after 35 years.

I believe all the above points have been fully investigated by CCRC and rejected. 

It's similar to what the police considered to be movement at the window subsequently written off as a 'trick of the light'.  No one will ever know whether it was a trick of the light or some other thing or person.  The time for beating the drum about this was at trial but I don't believe the defence did.  But now JB claims this is his alibi that the movement was SC.  This is the reason I believe BC turned against him.  Its not an alibi because it was never proved what or who it was.  Never mind a trick of the light it puts JB and his case in a poor light if that's the best you can come up with after 35 years.   8(8-))

IMO JB has a poor understanding of his case and surrounds himself with people who tell him what he wants to hear.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 19, 2020, 11:42:34 AM
I think the paperwork is genuine but personally I see it as evidence of sloppiness and poor communication as opposed to anything else.

The paperwork purporting to be a tel call from NB is almost certainly info regurgitated internally from one source ie JB.

There's not a shred of evidence that anyone within the farmhouse communicated with anyone outside.

There's also a police log which states one male and one female in the kitchen.  This was based on PC Collins putting his head above above the parapet to take a look at the kitchen.  It seems he mistook NB for SC.  When the firearms team entered shortly afterwards PC Collins realised NB was in fact male and radioed through to communicate this fact. Hence a log details one female and one male in kitchen.

Unlike today officers were not wearing body cams but relying on walkie talkies where they commincated events to a note taker elsewhere.

All sorts of lurid theories exist that SC shot herself once in the kitchen and then again upstairs which Dr Vanezis and the defence pathologist ruled out.

Mike Tesko on the Blue forum has even suggested the police shot SC which again doesn't fit with any of the ballistics and pathological evidence.

mrswah you asked why I don't rate SL's book and its in part because he believed at the time of writing that these aspects support JB when there's no basis for them.

They're worth mentioning because they show by today's standards it was very poor in terms of paperwork and communication but that's it.  To suggest they're evidence of anything else muddies the water and makes JB/his case look very weak after 35 years.

I believe all the above points have been fully investigated by CCRC and rejected. 

It's similar to what the police considered to be movement at the window subsequently written off as a 'trick of the light'.  No one will ever know whether it was a trick of the light or some other thing or person.  The time for beating the drum about this was at trial but I don't believe the defence did.  But now JB claims this is his alibi that the movement was SC.  This is the reason I believe BC turned against him.  Its not an alibi because it was never proved what or who it was.  Never mind a trick of the light it puts JB and his case in a poor light if that's the best you can come up with after 35 years.   8(8-))

IMO JB has a poor understanding of his case and surrounds himself with people who tell him what he wants to hear.


Has anyone picked up that HAD it been Sheila who'd been seen by Jeremy, had she at some time after that, shot herself, she'd have, relatively speaking, been only just/recently dead by the time she was found. Surely this would have been picked up when compared with the others who'd been dead rather longer?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 19, 2020, 11:50:52 AM
I think the paperwork is genuine but personally I see it as evidence of sloppiness and poor communication as opposed to anything else.

The paperwork purporting to be a tel call from NB is almost certainly info regurgitated internally from one source ie JB.

There's not a shred of evidence that anyone within the farmhouse communicated with anyone outside.

There's also a police log which states one male and one female in the kitchen.  This was based on PC Collins putting his head above above the parapet to take a look at the kitchen.  It seems he mistook NB for SC.  When the firearms team entered shortly afterwards PC Collins realised NB was in fact male and radioed through to communicate this fact. Hence a log details one female and one male in kitchen.

Unlike today officers were not wearing body cams but relying on walkie talkies where they commincated events to a note taker elsewhere.

All sorts of lurid theories exist that SC shot herself once in the kitchen and then again upstairs which Dr Vanezis and the defence pathologist ruled out.

Mike Tesko on the Blue forum has even suggested the police shot SC which again doesn't fit with any of the ballistics and pathological evidence.

mrswah you asked why I don't rate SL's book and its in part because he believed at the time of writing that these aspects support JB when there's no basis for them.

They're worth mentioning because they show by today's standards it was very poor in terms of paperwork and communication but that's it.  To suggest they're evidence of anything else muddies the water and makes JB/his case look very weak after 35 years.

I believe all the above points have been fully investigated by CCRC and rejected. 

It's similar to what the police considered to be movement at the window subsequently written off as a 'trick of the light'.  No one will ever know whether it was a trick of the light or some other thing or person.  The time for beating the drum about this was at trial but I don't believe the defence did.  But now JB claims this is his alibi that the movement was SC.  This is the reason I believe BC turned against him.  Its not an alibi because it was never proved what or who it was.  Never mind a trick of the light it puts JB and his case in a poor light if that's the best you can come up with after 35 years.   8(8-))

IMO JB has a poor understanding of his case and surrounds himself with people who tell him what he wants to hear.


Thank you for your reply, Holly. I've obviously got a lot of work to do, but I can fully understand why Scott Lomax believes as he does.

I watched the video, hoping that I'd have a "eureka" moment, but ended up more confused than ever!  I did like the police officer's  London accent though----made me feel quite homesick!

When you say Jeremy doesn't understand his case, is that because you believe he didn't do it, or because he has been in prison for so long that his brain is no longert functioning normally?

I have heard it said that there are still a lot of documents that have never been released to the defence. Is this so, do you think?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 11:53:35 AM

Has anyone picked up that HAD it been Sheila who'd been seen by Jeremy, had she at some time after that, shot herself, she'd have, relatively speaking, been only just/recently dead by the time she was found. Surely this would have been picked up when compared with the others who'd been dead rather longer?

If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period.  But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty.  He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2020, 11:59:36 AM
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period.  But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty.  He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.
Have you considered the possibility that not only does it make him look weak and guilty but that actually he IS weak and guilty and that’s why he’s come up with such a straw clutching idea?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 19, 2020, 12:00:57 PM
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period.  But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty.  He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.


One might have believed so. However, it's perfectly possible that he likes to control things because it gives him a sense of power. Maybe he refuses to be talked out of decisions he's made? From a guilty perspective, he's hardly likely to want them to go down any avenue which might lead them to that conclusion.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 12:16:12 PM

Thank you for your reply, Holly. I've obviously got a lot of work to do, but I can fully understand why Scott Lomax believes as he does.

I watched the video, hoping that I'd have a "eureka" moment, but ended up more confused than ever!  I did like the police officer's  London accent though----made me feel quite homesick!

When you say Jeremy doesn't understand his case, is that because you believe he didn't do it, or because he has been in prison for so long that his brain is no longert functioning normally?

I have heard it said that there are still a lot of documents that have never been released to the defence. Is this so, do you think?

SL also muddies the water enormously in his book by going along with the defence strategy at trial which was to suggest SC used the silencer to murder the her parents and children and then returned it to the gun cupboard before shooting herself.  This scenario is based on the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer originating from an intimate mix of June and NB's blood which is so far fetched its the stuff of lala land.

I belive JB has a poor understanding of his case because he's innocent and probably didn't take it seriously pre trial naively believing he would be found not guilty because he didn't commit what he was found guilty of.  Post trial he lacks the resources to manage his case properly eg no access to forensic textbooks, electronic data management systems and the Internet.  Psychologically its inevitable his long incarceration and fighting a 35 year battle he still hasn't won will have taken an enormous toll. He's also had all manner of people dipping in and out of his case including  cranks and bogus lawyers.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2020, 12:18:59 PM
And long may it continue!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 12:27:11 PM
mrswah in terms of accents I prefer Andrew Hunter's along with his crevat!  In terms of looks I like, very much, the actor who played JB  8**8:/:
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2020, 12:35:38 PM
There are enough Hooray Henrys in government. The last thing we need is a plummy-voiced toff fighting for Bamber.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 19, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
mrswah in terms of accents I prefer Andrew Hunter's along with his crevat!  In terms of looks I like, very much, the actor who played JB  8**8:/:

LOL.  Agreed, re the JB actor.

Andrew Hunter looked and sounded nothing like I had imagined!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on April 19, 2020, 12:59:28 PM
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period.  But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty.  He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.




Holly, I may have misunderstood as I've not followed this case since Jeremy and I last spoke.

Are you stating he has just recently come up with the fact that Sheila's supposed appearance at the bedroom is his alibi?

Has he not mentioned this previously?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 01:01:49 PM
LOL.  Agreed, re the JB actor.

Andrew Hunter looked and sounded nothing like I had imagined!

See what you think of this one if you haven't seen it already.
It features the late DS Jones.  I find his accent/voice interesting which CC also comments on in his book.

https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU

It's a Sky production 'Killing Mum And Dad' and was the subject of a complaint from JB to the body which regulates broadcasters Of?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 01:03:51 PM



Holly, I may have misunderstood as I've not followed this case since Jeremy and I last spoke.

Are you stating he has just recently come up with the fact that Sheila's supposed appearance at the bedroom is his alibi?

Has he not mentioned this previously?

Yes he has mentioned it previously but he has never gone as far as claiming its his alibi. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 01:04:58 PM
There are enough Hooray Henrys in government. The last thing we need is a plummy-voiced toff fighting for Bamber.

Ah willsoon be put in his place by Priti Patel.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
See what you think of this one if you haven't seen it already.
It features the late DS Jones.  I find his accent/voice interesting which CC also comments on in his book.

https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU (https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU)

It's a Sky production 'Killing Mum And Dad' and was the subject of a complaint from JB to the body which regulates broadcasters Of?
The Stan Jones dodgy accent hunting-season started up again, I see... https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=1923 (https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=1923)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2020, 01:13:22 PM
Ah willsoon be put in his place by Priti Patel.
And a priti proper thing too!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on April 19, 2020, 01:21:53 PM
Yes he has mentioned it previously but he has never gone as far as claiming its his alibi.



Oh yes he has!

We both believed that at the very beginning.  That is all we had as evidence.  Jeremy has always believed this. ALWAYS
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 01:46:08 PM


Oh yes he has!

We both believed that at the very beginning.  That is all we had as evidence.  Jeremy has always believed this. ALWAYS

Yes that's fair enough but it's not an alibi as it can't be proved what or who it was. 

The police officers, PS Bews and PC Myall, observed what they thought was movement (PC Myall actually) but when they repositioned themselves they explained it as a trick of the light ie a moon shadow reflecting on the window.  No one will ever know what or who it was.  But one thing is for sure it isn't an alibi and for JB to come out and say otherwise 35 years later just makes him look weak and guilty.  It's the reason Brett Collins has turned on JB.  BC knows JB didn't have an alibi. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on April 19, 2020, 01:57:44 PM
Yes that's fair enough but it's not an alibi as it can't be proved what or who it was. 

The police officers, PS Bews and PC Myall, observed what they thought was movement (PC Myall actually) but when they repositioned themselves they explained it as a trick of the light ie a moon shadow reflecting on the window.  No one will ever know what or who it was.  But one thing is for sure it isn't an alibi and for JB to come out and say otherwise 35 years later just makes him look weak and guilty.  It's the reason Brett Collins has turned on JB.  BC knows JB didn't have an alibi.



So, correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm going back to the very beginning and the discussions we have. I've not looked through the evidence like you have.

Are you saying the 'conversation with somebody in the house and the figure at the windiw' have been proven beyond a doubt, never took place.?

Of course Jeremy has always stated he could not have killed his family due to these supposed facts.
But if you have evidence that they did not happen in the way Jeremy has always stated it did, I'd be very interested in reading it.   Along with the dog barking, sounding as if it was running around the house but later found locked in a cupboard (I'm not sure about that last bit tbh, this is my memory of very early days), you have proof that this could not, under any circumstances, have happened?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 02:12:15 PM


So, correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm going back to the very beginning and the discussions we have. I've not looked through the evidence like you have.

Are you saying the 'conversation with somebody in the house and the figure at the windiw' have been proven beyond a doubt, never took place.?

Of course Jeremy has always stated he could not have killed his family due to these supposed facts.
But if you have evidence that they did not happen in the way Jeremy has always stated it did, I'd be very interested in reading it.   Along with the dog barking, sounding as if it was running around the house but later found locked in a cupboard (I'm not sure about that last bit tbh, this is my memory of very early days), you have proof that this could not, under any circumstances, have happened?

It has always been the case PC Myall alerted PS Bews and JB to some movement at the window but they immediately wrote this off as a 'trick of the light' because by moving themselves back and forth they claimed they were able to recreate the trick of the light.

How do you think this can assist JB today win an appeal?  Or even garner support from the media and public in general? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on April 19, 2020, 02:19:23 PM
Holly, I'm not stating it can help, I'm only questioning you about what he saw and heard that night and was recorded.

So again, correct me if I'm wrong, these things did not occur just because a copper stated his own opinion ... With no evidence to prove it, just a view.
In addition, if a cover up had taken place, those two statements recorded by Jeremy would have to be discounted, without question... As it would always remain an alibi with supporting evidence.

What about the dog running around?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 19, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
Holly, I'm not stating it can help, I'm only questioning you about what he saw and heard that night and was recorded.

So again, correct me if I'm wrong, these things did not occur just because a copper stated his own opinion ... With no evidence to prove it, just a view.
In addition, if a cover up had taken place, those two statements recorded by Jeremy would have to be discounted, without question... As it would always remain an alibi with supporting evidence.

What about the dog running around?

The only person who claimed to have seen the movement initially was PC Myall.  He alerted PS Bews and JB who were altogether.  PS Bews tried to eliminate the so-called movement by moving back and forth and was able to.  On this basis it was written off as a trick of the light.  I don't think it was even mentioned at trial.   Why didn't JB mention it to anyone pre and during trial?

Yes Crispy was running around.  When the police firearms unit entered Crispy was placed in a wardrobe to preserve the soc which was a bit daft when you consider how long he had been in there. 

But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2020, 03:06:48 PM
So Crispy could have disturbed the crime scene before it was photographed?   I just read the bit where Bamber suggested the dog could have pulled the trigger on Sheila too. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
Yes that's fair enough but it's not an alibi as it can't be proved what or who it was. 

The police officers, PS Bews and PC Myall, observed what they thought was movement (PC Myall actually) but when they repositioned themselves they explained it as a trick of the light ie a moon shadow reflecting on the window.  No one will ever know what or who it was.  But one thing is for sure it isn't an alibi and for JB to come out and say otherwise 35 years later just makes him look weak and guilty.  It's the reason Brett Collins has turned on JB.  BC knows JB didn't have an alibi.
More revelations from the Antipodes...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 19, 2020, 03:17:22 PM
The only person who claimed to have seen the movement initially was PC Myall.  He alerted PS Bews and JB who were altogether.  PS Bews tried to eliminate the so-called movement by moving back and forth and was able to.  On this basis it was written off as a trick of the light.  I don't think it was even mentioned at trial.   Why didn't JB mention it to anyone pre and during trial?

Yes Crispy was running around.  When the police firearms unit entered Crispy was placed in a wardrobe to preserve the soc which was a bit daft when you consider how long he had been in there. 

But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.

You don’t know what Crispy was doing - you’re speculating

However keeping Crispy alive until 2 days after he murdered could have been part of Bamber’s plan?

What excuse did he give you Aunt Agatha for putting Cripsy down when he did?

This is what the vet stated;

The Vet’s W/S:
Robert McTaggart Hill, w/s, 14 October 1985; vet with Neill & Scott, Maldon.

Jeremy Bamber called him on 8 August and he went to Bourtree:

‘On my arrival Mr Jeremy Bamber told me that he wished me to put down the Shih Tzu dog that had belonged to Mrs Bamber, his mother. He said that the dog was very attached to his mother, and since her death, he thought that the dog should not go to another home. He also said that the dog had turned a bit nasty since the killings at WHF and it was a bit snappy. I also spoke with Mr Jeremy Bamber about finding a new home for another dog from WHF, this was a black Labrador gun dog. He seemed concerned that the dog should be found another home on a farm but if that didn’t work out that dog should also be put down. Through the vet’s practise another home was found for this dog at Corporation Farm at Maldon and we housed the dog on Friday, 9 August 1985… Mr J Bamber brought the dog to the surgery on that afternoon. On the occasions I saw Jeremy Bamber, he seemed upset when I saw him on 8.8.85 but he seemed to be more composed on 9.8.85 when I saw him in Maldon at the surgery. On the latter occasion he explained that he was on tranquillisers. I knew nothing of Jeremy Bamber or his family prior to 8.8.85.’

Keeping Crispy alive inside the house could enable him to attempt to confuse/trick the police outside about hearing noises inside etc..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 19, 2020, 04:56:59 PM
So psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, but Jeremy Bamber wasn't?

One of the main traits of the psychopathic brain type is manipulation; they are much better at it than the general population.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-psychopaths-think-theyre-successfully-fooling-people-in-their-minds


G-Unit, you’re searching sites such as Quora to try and help you argue your point, but Quora is simply a message board that anyone at all can post on, so you could be reading a load of rubbish.

GENERALLY, psychopaths are manipulative, and Bamber is — just look at how many people he’s bamboozled — most of whom eventually see through him. But if you wanted to put his manipulation skills on a scale, along with his IQ, considering he’s a psychopath who are usually clever, cunning and bright, Jeremy would be right at the bottom of that scale.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 19, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period.  But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty.  He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.


No-one saw Sheila at the window, though — and no-one heard a gunshot, which they wold have done.

Hadd Sheila gone berserk, as Jeremy falsely claimed, Sheila would have probably shot herself for them all to see. Why would she care if she’d gone crazy?

But the REAL TRUTH is, there was no-one at the window.

The police said it was a trick of the light, and they even “made” the same shadowy illusion by tilting their heads as they looked at he window afterwards.

This nonsense has been repeated continuously for 30 years now! The police have STATED that they saw NO person at the window. Why keep repeating the same thing, again and again and again, when everyone knows Sheila was already dead?

 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2020, 05:52:19 PM

G-Unit, you’re searching sites such as Quora to try and help you argue your point, but Quora is simply a message board that anyone at all can post on, so you could be reading a load of rubbish.

GENERALLY, psychopaths are manipulative, and Bamber is — just look at how many people he’s bamboozled — most of whom eventually see through him. But if you wanted to put his manipulation skills on a scale, along with his IQ, considering he’s a psychopath who are usually clever, cunning and bright, Jeremy would be right at the bottom of that scale.

So you're saying he isn't a typical psychopath. How do you know he is one then?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2020, 05:54:08 PM
So you're saying he isn't a typical psychopath. How do you know he is one then?
According to the psychiatrist used by Jeremy’s own defence team the man is a psychopath.  Is that not enough for you?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on April 19, 2020, 06:01:24 PM

No-one saw Sheila at the window, though — and no-one heard a gunshot, which they wold have done.

Hadd Sheila gone berserk, as Jeremy falsely claimed, Sheila would have probably shot herself for them all to see. Why would she care if she’d gone crazy?

But the REAL TRUTH is, there was no-one at the window.

The police said it was a trick of the light, and they even “made” the same shadowy illusion by tilting their heads as they looked at he window afterwards.

This nonsense has been repeated continuously for 30 years now! The police have STATED that they saw NO person at the window. Why keep repeating the same thing, again and again and again, when everyone knows Sheila was already dead?

 



I genuinely beg to differ!

If there was a cover up, which I believe, emphatically, these are concerns that the police would address.

It's all heresay. There is no evidence whatsoever and therefore is 'not beyond reasonable doubt!'
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 19, 2020, 06:15:08 PM
So you're saying he isn't a typical psychopath. How do you know he is one then?


Lack of empathy for starters.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 19, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
SL also muddies the water enormously in his book by going along with the defence strategy at trial which was to suggest SC used the silencer to murder the her parents and children and then returned it to the gun cupboard before shooting herself.  This scenario is based on the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer originating from an intimate mix of June and NB's blood which is so far fetched its the stuff of lala land.

I belive JB has a poor understanding of his case because he's innocent and probably didn't take it seriously pre trial naively believing he would be found not guilty because he didn't commit what he was found guilty of.  Post trial he lacks the resources to manage his case properly eg no access to forensic textbooks, electronic data management systems and the Internet.  Psychologically its inevitable his long incarceration and fighting a 35 year battle he still hasn't won will have taken an enormous toll. He's also had all manner of people dipping in and out of his case including  cranks and bogus lawyers.



Oh please, Holly...

You cannot be serious?!


It wasn’t SL who, as you say, SUGGESTED the silencer was used — that was established in the trial!  SL HAD to put that in his book, because it was true.

You then go on to say “the blood flake was SUPPOSEDLY found...”...Holly, the blood flake WAS found in the silencer. The police know that. The court knows that. And YOU know that! EVERYONE knows that — including the forensic scientists who examined it!  You just don’t want to ADMIT it, because tests PROVED it was Sheila’s blood. And you know full well she couldn’t have put the silencer in the cupboard after SUPPOSEDLY shooting herself once.

My God! You go on, and on, and on...saying the same, tired old things ....why are you doing it? It’s been PROVEN that Jeremy Bamber is guilty, and there’s not one tiny thing in 35 years that’s ever SUGGESTED he may not have murdered them. Hw long do you NEED to accept his guilt?

And as for saying he has a poor understanding of the case, that’s hilarious! He plotted and planned those murders, even down to the fake phone call. When the police interviewed him under caution he was arrogant, grandiose, combative, and lied repeatedly? You’re trying to create a picture that he’s either simple, or so, so sweet, nice, angelic...he can’t understand any of the legal process. Yet he’s SUPPOSEDLY trawled through 4Million documents with a fine tooth comb, made numerous appeals, leave for appeals, recruited a team of people who he’s bamboozled, used, treated like dirt, dropped when he’s lost interest in them, and has been doing everything he can to twist, lie, exaggerate, distort the most ludicrous of tiny details in an attempt to worm his way out of prison, despite KNOWING he’s a cold-blooded murderer.

You need to take a step back...this isn’t healthy.


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2020, 06:31:57 PM
I’m simply aghast that the first thing Bamber did after being released from police questioning is go on holiday to the south of France without apparently a care in the world, knowing that he was chief suspect in his own family’s murders.  How could anyone contemplate such a thing if one was innocent?  One would surely be sick with stress and worry at the thought that the police were trying to frame you for murders you didn’t commit?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 19, 2020, 06:40:37 PM
I’m simply aghast that the first thing Bamber did after being released from police questioning is go on holiday to the south of France without apparently a care in the world, knowing that he was chief suspect in his own family’s murders.  How could anyone contemplate such a thing if one was innocent?  One would surely be sick with stress and worry at the thought that the police were trying to frame you for murders you didn’t commit?


Not if one is a psychopath.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2020, 06:42:42 PM
The police smelled a rat, so he took the opportunity to have one last fling before he was caught in their trap.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2020, 07:08:00 PM

Not if one is a psychopath.
My thoughts exactly. nThe more I discover about him the more utterly convinced I am of his guilt and the more I struggle to understand how anyone could believe otherwise.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on April 19, 2020, 07:55:16 PM
More revelations from the Antipodes...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer)


 &%%6
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 19, 2020, 09:40:40 PM
Interesting how Trudi Benjamin doesn’t appear to have ‘liked’ Dr Michael Naughton’s tweets here?

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Replying to
@campbellclaret
 and
@GavinWilliamson
He’s about as inspiring a slug!
4:07 pm · 19 Apr 2020·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1251890250118565889


Slugs and snails are very important. They provide food for all sorts of mammals, birds, slow worms, earthworms, insects and they are part of the natural balance. Upset that balance by removing them and we can do a lot of harm. Thrushes in particular thrive on them!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 19, 2020, 11:32:51 PM
So psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, but Jeremy Bamber wasn't?

One of the main traits of the psychopathic brain type is manipulation; they are much better at it than the general population.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-psychopaths-think-theyre-successfully-fooling-people-in-their-minds

He was good at hiding his true nature, right up until he killed the whole family - that kinds let the cat (or the psychopath) out of the bag.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on April 20, 2020, 01:36:43 AM

Lack of empathy for starters.


He is quite the opposite IMHO.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 20, 2020, 04:34:21 AM


Oh yes he has!

We both believed that at the very beginning.  That is all we had as evidence.  Jeremy has always believed this. ALWAYS



Agatha,

When you say “We both believed that at the very beginning “ and “That is all we had as evidence”, you weren’t around when he murdered his family, you didn’t even know any of the Bambers, including JB, so how can you say this with such conviction?

What you’re REALLY saying is that you believed what he told you...

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2020, 06:47:25 AM
He was good at hiding his true nature, right up until he killed the whole family - that kinds let the cat (or the psychopath) out of the bag.

Really? Spy thinks 'everyone' knew his true nature before the crime was committed.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 20, 2020, 07:07:12 AM
Really? Spy thinks 'everyone' knew his true nature before the crime was committed.


They did...very soon after they got to know him

That’s why he hasn’t got any friends and never did have, even at school

I guarantee you won’t find one picture of him with a group of friends...or celebrating his 18th, 21st...


People didn’t like him, and they can’t all have been wrong. Even his fellow inmates dislike him, and they’re pondlife too




[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 20, 2020, 10:04:55 AM

They did...very soon after they got to know him

That’s why he hasn’t got any friends and never did have, even at school

I guarantee you won’t find one picture of him with a group of friends...or celebrating his 18th, 21st...


People didn’t like him, and they can’t all have been wrong. Even his fellow inmates dislike him, and they’re pondlife too


Oh, really, I Spy!!!

How can you possibly be absolutely sure of all that?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 20, 2020, 10:09:12 AM
Really? Spy thinks 'everyone' knew his true nature before the crime was committed.

Some probably knew 'there was something about Jeremy' - they just didn't understand what the 'something' was/is.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on April 20, 2020, 10:11:24 AM

They did...very soon after they got to know him

That’s why he hasn’t got any friends and never did have, even at school

I guarantee you won’t find one picture of him with a group of friends...or celebrating his 18th, 21st...


People didn’t like him, and they can’t all have been wrong. Even his fellow inmates dislike him, and they’re pondlife too
In fairness Spy, his fellow inmates don't like him because he's a child killer.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on April 20, 2020, 11:31:50 AM
In fairness Spy, his fellow inmates don't like him because he's a child killer.


In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison.  He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors. 
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent.  He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 20, 2020, 11:33:28 AM

Oh, really, I Spy!!!

How can you possibly be absolutely sure of all that?


I’ve read it, and if you do your research you’ll find that out too
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 11:35:08 AM

In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison.  He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors. 
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent.  He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.

What were his ‘friends’ convicted of ? Were they serial killers, rapists, murderers or terrorists ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 20, 2020, 11:38:33 AM
In fairness Spy, his fellow inmates don't like him because he's a child killer.

There’s that of course, yes

But he’s disliked for other reasons too

Ex-inmates have said how they never liked him as he was so arrogant and treated everyone like they were beneath him. 

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 20, 2020, 11:40:18 AM
There’s that of course, yes

But he’s disliked for other reasons too

Ex-inmates have said how they never liked him as he was so arrogant and treated everyone like they were beneath him.

He also seemed to. have sense of entitlement,  interviews with the press etc.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 11:44:00 AM

In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison.  He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors. 
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent.  He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.

We have

You haven’t
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on April 20, 2020, 11:45:38 AM
What were his ‘friends’ convicted of ? Were they serial killers, rapists, murderers or terrorists ?
Well they're not going to be in for pinching strawberries or throwing stones at swans.
What's your point?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 20, 2020, 12:00:47 PM

In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison.  He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors. 
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent.  He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.


I heard that when prisoners have visitors they’re watched by guards and have to remain seated (they’re not even allowed to go to the loo) and they and their visitors aren’t allowed to mix/speak with fellow inmates. You make it sound like it was an informal social gathering of friends...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 12:06:27 PM
Well they're not going to be in for pinching strawberries or throwing stones at swans.
What's your point?

Who did Bamber introduce Aunt Agatha to, Robert Maudsley?

Robert Maudsley, known as ‘Hannibal the Cannibal’ or the ‘Brain Eater’ https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1234599/white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bamber-prison-itv-drama-true-crime-spt

What prison did she visit him in?

Was Bamber ‘friendly’ with David Harker, Ian Huntley, Sidney Cooke?

Harker killed and dismembered mother-of-four Julie Paterson, and admitted eating parts of her flesh with pasta. In 1999 he was sentenced to a minimum of 14 years in prison after admitting manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Alan Taylor, the partner of Harker’s victim later committed murder saying he wanted to be jailed at Wakefield so he could attack Harker.

Nicknamed Hissing Sid, Cooke is a notorious paedophile who is serving two life sentences for a campaign of sexual abuse against two young boys. He’d previously been jailed for the manslaughter of 14-year-old Jason Swift. It’s been reported that in Wakefield prison he’s befriended a fellow inmate known as Britain’s Joseph Fritzl.

https://www.lifedeathprizes.com/real-life-crime/monster-mansion-hm-prison-wakefield-uks-notorious-jail-64494

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 20, 2020, 12:08:55 PM


I genuinely beg to differ!

If there was a cover up, which I believe, emphatically, these are concerns that the police would address.

It's all heresay. There is no evidence whatsoever and therefore is 'not beyond reasonable doubt!'


Why would the police do a cover up?

If any of the officers saw a person at the window why would they deny it? What would be the point? They weren’t at that stage disbelieving Jeremy.

They established it was just shadows caused by a trick of the light, and never even said they saw a FIGURE; they thought they saw “movement” which turned out to be reflection from the moon shining through the windows and tress which altered depending on how they tilted their heads when they looked up.

I’m not commenting on this point anymore, as it’s been established what it was, and it’s becoming tedious...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 12:20:11 PM

In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison.  He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors. 
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent.  He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.

Why do you refer to them as friends Aunt Agatha ?

What did you know about these friends of Bamber’s?

Who were they, what were they in prison for?

What friends has he lost? And do you mean they died?

Who were/are they?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 12:30:06 PM
The reality of the truth Aunt Agatha is you’re still wearing those rose tinted glasses

The reality is you don’t know these ‘friends’ anymore than you think you know me or anyone else on this forum
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 12:49:11 PM
Help, harm or hindrance or something else?

Jan Cunliffe @JENGbAHeart exclamation Retweeted
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Apr 16
I'm undecided so would simply ask for all evidence on the table.
@justice
 Priti Patel MP, Home Secretary: Essex police, release ALL withheld documents to Jeremy Bamber’s legal defence team with immediate effect... - Sign the Petition! http://chng.it/Wnn4ZXYc via
@UKChange

London Bridge attack: Reformed prisoner who fought knifeman 'prepared to die
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50744983

Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Sad to say, I had the ccrc look at my case with negative results. Only to go on and eventually have my murder conviction quashed by appeal court!?? Just saying!??

Johncrilly Retweeted
Erica Geen
@GeenErica
Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice

Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Met Jeremy myself as just another prisoner in denial and pleading my innocence too. Here's hoping you get the chance like me to PROVE your innocence. @righttoafairtrial 
@theruleoflaw
???
https://mobile.twitter.com/Johncrill1
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 01:29:02 PM

I heard that when prisoners have visitors they’re watched by guards and have to remain seated (they’re not even allowed to go to the loo) and they and their visitors aren’t allowed to mix/speak with fellow inmates. You make it sound like it was an informal social gathering of friends...

Given the fact she won’t say who these ‘friends’ were/are we can only assume she’s minimising her prison visits with Bamber, and other Cat A prisoners, and referring to them like they are just everyday normal social gatherings in order to justify in her mind these visits were normal; they are anything but ‘normal’
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 01:43:32 PM
Help, harm or hindrance or something else?

Jan Cunliffe @JENGbAHeart exclamation Retweeted
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Apr 16
I'm undecided so would simply ask for all evidence on the table.
@justice
 Priti Patel MP, Home Secretary: Essex police, release ALL withheld documents to Jeremy Bamber’s legal defence team with immediate effect... - Sign the Petition! http://chng.it/Wnn4ZXYc via
@UKChange

London Bridge attack: Reformed prisoner who fought knifeman 'prepared to die
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50744983

Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Sad to say, I had the ccrc look at my case with negative results. Only to go on and eventually have my murder conviction quashed by appeal court!?? Just saying!??

Johncrilly Retweeted
Erica Geen
@GeenErica
Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice

Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Met Jeremy myself as just another prisoner in denial and pleading my innocence too. Here's hoping you get the chance like me to PROVE your innocence. @righttoafairtrial 
@theruleoflaw
???
https://mobile.twitter.com/Johncrill1

Did anyone see John Crilly on TV alongside Janet Cunliffe when she was referred to as his ‘case worker’ ?

Gloria Morrison set up a fundraiser here https://www.gofundme.com/f/JChrilly called ‘A True Hero supported by @JENGbA’

Mick Geen donated £10
JC is a true hero and a shining example to us all

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=458.msg498505#msg498505

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=89.msg575541#msg575541

Dr Andrew Green
We have asked Gloria and Janet to change the date of their meetings so that INNOCENT members can attend meetings of both organisations if they wish, and do not feel forced into choosing one organisation over another. But they have flatly refused to change their meetings to different dates.
We have been saddened by the discovery that this is a deliberately hostile act. We would like to ignore this childish behaviour and we hope that all INNOCENT members will do so.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=458.msg11027#msg11027

I have emails from Andrew Green somewhere

28th Septempber 2010
"I hope you appreciate that Michael Naughton from the Bristol Innocence Project will be speaking at the meeting, and that it is an open, public meeting, with a large number of people present. Details available at http://www.unitedagainstinjustice.org.uk/MOJ%2010%20day/2010flyer.html
I don't want to take sides in any dispute that doesn't concern me directly, but you do seem to have alienated a lot of people who would otherwise be willing to give support to Simon, simply because they want to see an innocent person exonerated. I don't want trouble at our meeting any more than you do, so we'll do all we can to avoid it.
Andrew
INNOCENT
challenging miscarriages of justice since 1993
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 01:58:40 PM
Did anyone see John Crilly on TV alongside Janet Cunliffe when she was referred to as his ‘case worker’ ?

https://www.itv.com/goodmorningbritain/news/london-bridge-hero-haunted-by-terror-attack
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 02:21:24 PM
The only person who claimed to have seen the movement initially was PC Myall.  He alerted PS Bews and JB who were altogether.  PS Bews tried to eliminate the so-called movement by moving back and forth and was able to.  On this basis it was written off as a trick of the light.  I don't think it was even mentioned at trial.   Why didn't JB mention it to anyone pre and during trial?

Yes Crispy was running around.  When the police firearms unit entered Crispy was placed in a wardrobe to preserve the soc which was a bit daft when you consider how long he had been in there. 

But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.

Are you by any chance feeding into Aunt Agatha’s ‘idealisations’ behind the scenes Holly ?

and do you remember stating this?

I know I would feel devastated if proved wrong re JB or he admitted to being responsible.”


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457433#msg457433
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 02:30:03 PM
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Sad to say, I had the ccrc look at my case with negative results. Only to go on and eventually have my murder conviction quashed by appeal court!?? Just saying!??

Jan Cunliffe @JENGbAHeart exclamation
@Jliffe
Replying to
@Johncrill1
Exactly and I wonder how many more have and will continue to be failed by this miserable excuse of a justice system. Let’s remember a miscarriage is an accident but an abortion is done intentionally. These are ABORTIONS of justice and that’s what we need to start calling them

 *&^^&

John Crilly -'I had a bad life, I've changed': https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-london-bridge-killer-freed-17373720

John Crilly: ‘I’m out – but everyone else is still suffering’
Excerpt:
“John Crilly was sentenced to life for the murder of a pensioner and robbery with a minimum term of 19 years; last week he pleaded guilty to manslaughter. He has already served 13 years and so was released from prison.

How does it feel to be the first post-Jogee appeal?  ‘Of all the cases I have known and heard about, I felt that I wasn’t the worthy one,’ he tells me. Crilly, who is close to completing a law degree, has written about the unfairness of the common law doctrine of joint enterprise and supports JENGbA in their campaign. ‘There are a lot of people more innocent than me who should be getting out as well. It is bitter sweet.’

Crilly, a heroin addict with a long history of previous convictions prior to being sent down for murder, compares his present state of mind to ‘survivor’s guilt’. ‘I’m out but everyone is still suffering. It’s just horrendous. As far as I am concerned the issue has always bigger than me. It’s about the principles.’
https://www.thejusticegap.com/john-crilly-im-out-but-everyone-else-is-still-suffering/

Mr Maduemezia's family said in a statement to the BBC:
“This incident had a devastating effect on the family who took a number of years to come to terms with their father's death.
You can then imagine their anger and disappointment when they were informed by the police that Mr Crilly had launched a second appeal against his conviction (his first in 2007 failed). His appeal was granted at the High Court.
"It was sickening to hear that he was walking away without completing his sentence for his part in the murder of our father.
"These High Court rulings which lean too favourably towards the offenders and virtually casting aside the opinions, consideration and feelings of victims and their families, help to corrode and undermine public confidence in the justice system.
"We are led to understand that Crilly has turned his life around whilst in prison and has even acquired a law degree. At least he is alive. We wish him well but also wish that our father were alive and free to live his life.
"Despite these disappointments, the family has decided to move on. We are thankful to be public and fully appreciate their support throughout this ordeal."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43840635

Mr Justice William Davis said:
“What you did was very serious. You went into the home of what turned out to be a 71-year-old man.
“Having got in there and discovered he was there, you didn’t retreat.
“You and your fellow offender set about ransacking the house and when he was the subject of violence by Flynn, you nonetheless continued with your enterprise.”
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/robber-who-away-mobile-phone-14538267
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 03:18:53 PM
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Met Jeremy myself as just another prisoner in denial and pleading my innocence too. Here's hoping you get the chance like me to PROVE your innocence. @righttoafairtrial 
@theruleoflaw
???
https://mobile.twitter.com/Johncrill1

Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
So, I'm intrigued to know if people now have understanding that a prisoners incarceration is not diluted by television or XBOX. NOTHING! Detracts from no family contact or touch. Does it? They do suffer, especially if innocent.
@JENGBA @Jliffe

Is John Crilly suggesting he and Bamber are innocent?

He sounds like another Kevin Craigie
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 20, 2020, 08:15:48 PM
Are you by any chance feeding into Aunt Agathas ‘idealisations’ behind the scenes Holly ?

and do you remember stating this?

I know I would feel devastated if proved wrong re JB or he admitted to being responsible.”


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457433#msg457433



Wow, to say you’d feel DEVASTATED if Jeremy admitted he was responsible sounds like you’re emotionally involved , Holly!

It also sounds like you’ve got “other” reasons to be defending him for so many years. I don’t know how often you’ve visited him — which are brief one-hour visits under scrutiny from guards, so hardly normal — but even if he writes to you daily; calls you on the phone; you don’t TRULY know him. So if he did eventually admit to the murders he’s been found guilty of, why would you feel devastated when he’s just a contact of yours?

Quickly going on to this you wrote:


“But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.”


When the police raided WHF they didn’t know what to expect. When they found Crispy cowering under the bed, their immediate action was to contain him for obvious reasons. Do you seriously think they’d not have regardless of what they thought of JB? It’s STANDARD procedure, and he’d have been the last thing on the police officers minds when they kept Crispy out the way of dead bodies!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 20, 2020, 09:26:51 PM
Are you by any chance feeding into ‘idealisations’ behind the scenes Holly ?

and do you remember stating this?

I know I would feel devastated if proved wrong re JB or he admitted to being responsible.”


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457433#msg457433

I am interested in the case from the adoption angle and on the basis I believe JB is a moj. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 20, 2020, 09:37:28 PM


Wow, to say you’d feel DEVASTATED if Jeremy admitted he was responsible sounds like you’re emotionally involved , Holly!

It also sounds like you’ve got “other” reasons to be defending him for so many years. I don’t know how often you’ve visited him — which are brief one-hour visits under scrutiny from guards, so hardly normal — but even if he writes to you daily; calls you on the phone; you don’t TRULY know him. So if he did eventually admit to the murders he’s been found guilty of, why would you feel devastated when he’s just a contact of yours?

Quickly going on to this you wrote:


“But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.”


When the police raided WHF they didn’t know what to expect. When they found Crispy cowering under the bed, their immediate action was to contain him for obvious reasons. Do you seriously think they’d not have regardless of what they thought of JB? It’s STANDARD procedure, and he’d have been the last thing on the police officers minds when they kept Crispy out the way of dead bodies!

Devastated was probably the wrong word.  Let's go for disappointed.  Disappointed that my judgement was so poor  8(8-))

I've never met JB or spoken with him on the phone and the last time I communicated with him via mail was nearly 2 years ago.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 20, 2020, 09:46:20 PM
I've edited and removed a number of posts which contained personal comments.

I would advise those who consider JB is or might be a MoJ not to reveal any personal info as unfortunately it seems to be used against you whether it be AA's contact with JB or G-Unit's experience of a naughty dog! 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 20, 2020, 11:31:08 PM
I've edited and removed a number of posts which contained personal comments.

I would advise those who consider JB is or might be a MoJ not to reveal any personal info as unfortunately it seems to be used against you whether it be AA's contact with JB or G-Unit's experience of a naughty dog!

If Aunt Agatha or anyone else wishes to reveal any information about Bamber that they’ve felt they cannot reveal until now, they should be encouraged to do so

What are you playing at Holly?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 21, 2020, 06:06:24 AM
Bamber is on lockdown in his prison cell (Well, I never!) and a lot more baloney is coming to light... LOL!!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on April 21, 2020, 07:51:01 AM
Bamber is on lockdown in his prison cell (Well, I never!) and a lot more baloney is coming to light... LOL!!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177)
"...the case is always evolving". Not from where I'm standing it's not. In his head maybe.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 21, 2020, 09:30:30 AM
I've edited and removed a number of posts which contained personal comments.

I would advise those who consider JB is or might be a MoJ not to reveal any personal info as unfortunately it seems to be used against you whether it be AA's contact with JB or G-Unit's experience of a naughty dog!

Isn’t that biased trying to make rules whereby people can’t tell the truth; give facts; accounts; ideas; details; first-hand knowledge they have of JB;  opinions...especially on a JUSTICE board? 8**8:/:
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 21, 2020, 09:34:55 AM
Bamber is on lockdown in his prison cell (Well, I never!) and a lot more baloney is coming to light... LOL!!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177)


The press can’t stand him can they...

I bet they roll their eyes when they see those same tired words again and again and again “New evidence has come to light” ^*&&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 21, 2020, 09:54:09 AM

The press can’t stand him can they...

I bet they roll their eyes when they see those same tired words again and again and again “New evidence has come to light” ^*&&


Maybe they can't stand him, but he's very useful to them for selling newspapers, just as Myra Hindley was.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
Isn’t that biased trying to make rules whereby people can’t tell the truth; give facts; accounts; ideas; details; first-hand knowledge they have of JB;  opinions...especially on a JUSTICE board? 8**8:/:

Personal remarks aimed at other posters are against forum rules so are properly removed.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 21, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
Personal remarks aimed at other posters are against forum rules so are properly removed.


Holly wasn’t discussing just personal remarks — she advised people not to reveal information about Jeremy Bamber — which doesn’t help him or anyone else. Withholding knowledge doesn’t make for a good forum...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 10:33:28 AM

Holly wasn’t discussing just personal remarks — she advised people not to reveal information about Jeremy Bamber — which doesn’t help him or anyone else. Withholding knowledge doesn’t make for a good forum...

No it doesn’t

As asked before - what’s she playing at?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on April 21, 2020, 10:51:26 AM
No it doesn’t

As asked before - what’s she playing at?
I agree, it's needless censorship. Maybe even driven by bias.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 10:55:28 AM
I agree, it's needless censorship. Maybe even driven by bias.

And if Aunt Agatha has suffered abuse she shouldn’t be being warned by anyone to keep it to herself
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 11:00:38 AM
I agree, it's needless censorship. Maybe even driven by bias.

Bias, personality who knows?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 11:03:00 AM
Bias, personality who knows?

This Is What Everyone Should Know About Covert Abusers by Dr Craig Malkin (2018)

In decades of studies on bullying and aggression, one aspect of pathological narcissism — EE, or exploitation and entitlement — predicts just about every nasty behavior documented, including physical abuse, chronic lies, and even workplace sabotage. But when it comes to predicting aggression, EE also tends to disappear, mathematically, once psychopathy is thrown into the mix. It’s the correlation between psychopathy and narcissism that makes narcissists dangerous.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/romance-redux/201802/is-what-everyone-should-know-about-covert-abusers
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 11:13:56 AM

Holly wasn’t discussing just personal remarks — she advised people not to reveal information about Jeremy Bamber — which doesn’t help him or anyone else. Withholding knowledge doesn’t make for a good forum...

Aunt Agatha is a victim of Bamber’s - this is my opinion

Why remove a post like this?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 21, 2020, 11:35:17 AM
Aunt Agatha is a victim of Bamber’s - this is my opinion

Why remove a post like this?

What post was removed, Nicholas?

I missed it.

I have thought when reading Agatha’s posts that she sounds somewhat timid and doesn’t like to think bad of anyone, whoever they are...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 11:43:24 AM
What post was removed, Nicholas?

I missed it.

I have thought when reading Agatha’s posts that she sounds somewhat timid and doesn’t like to think bad of anyone, whoever they are...

Off the top of my head - couldn’t tell you  *%87

Holly usually makes an announcement on the board when she removes posts - not sure if she does this on every occasion or not ?

But she’s stated on the board she’s removed posts - so probably best to ask her

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 21, 2020, 12:23:07 PM
Due to the current activity levels on the board we need to maintain the following rule set out on the homepage:

* Posters are asked to keep to thread topics where possible

Going forward I will be removing all posts that are off topic.

Thanks.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 12:52:47 PM
Yvonne Hartley

Even though I was only 18 at the time, I remember quite clearly the tragedies that occurred at White House Farm from the media coverage the case attracted, although it wasn’t until I watched the television programme “Crimes that shook Britain” about the case that I felt an overwhelming need to write to Jeremy to express my concerns about his wrongful conviction and to offer my support.

It’s quite embarrassing to recall the content of my first letter to Jeremy where I thought I had spotted something previously missed by the Defence, and wrote pages of analysis of how I saw the case from the limited amount of material available on the internet.

Within a few days of posting the letter I received a lengthy reply back from Jeremy who explained some of the facts behind the issues I had raised and he thanked me for the time it had taken me to reach the conclusions I had expressed to him.

This letter is now a source of amusement both to Jeremy and myself and I keep telling him to throw it away to which he laughs, but he never belittles the content of it. Embarrassing as it may be to me now, this letter opened the door to a friendship which I cherish and also to the best job in the world.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley

 *%87
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 02:47:46 PM
Isn’t that biased trying to make rules whereby people can’t tell the truth; give facts; accounts; ideas; details; first-hand knowledge they have of JB;  opinions...especially on a JUSTICE board? 8**8:/:

Still no answer
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 02:55:11 PM
Yvonne Hartley

Even though I was only 18 at the time, I remember quite clearly the tragedies that occurred at White House Farm from the media coverage the case attracted, although it wasn’t until I watched the television programme “Crimes that shook Britain” about the case that I felt an overwhelming need to write to Jeremy to express my concerns about his wrongful conviction and to offer my support.

It’s quite embarrassing to recall the content of my first letter to Jeremy where I thought I had spotted something previously missed by the Defence, and wrote pages of analysis of how I saw the case from the limited amount of material available on the internet.

Within a few days of posting the letter I received a lengthy reply back from Jeremy who explained some of the facts behind the issues I had raised and he thanked me for the time it had taken me to reach the conclusions I had expressed to him.

This letter is now a source of amusement both to Jeremy and myself and I keep telling him to throw it away to which he laughs, but he never belittles the content of it. Embarrassing as it may be to me now, this letter opened the door to a friendship which I cherish and also to the best job in the world.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley

 *%87

Yvonne also makes claim,

It angers Jeremy that the character’s of his mum; dad and sister have been assassinated over the years”

But it was Bamber who assassinated them & their characters in the first place

And it’s him who has continued to assassinate their characters for 35 years - some of his supporters help him assassinate their characters also

There’s no evidence Essex police have been responsible as Yvonne claims - it’s another fallacy
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 03:00:35 PM
Yvonne Hartley

Even though I was only 18 at the time, I remember quite clearly the tragedies that occurred at White House Farm from the media coverage the case attracted, although it wasn’t until I watched the television programme “Crimes that shook Britain” about the case that I felt an overwhelming need to write to Jeremy to express my concerns about his wrongful conviction and to offer my support.

It’s quite embarrassing to recall the content of my first letter to Jeremy where I thought I had spotted something previously missed by the Defence, and wrote pages of analysis of how I saw the case from the limited amount of material available on the internet.

Within a few days of posting the letter I received a lengthy reply back from Jeremy who explained some of the facts behind the issues I had raised and he thanked me for the time it had taken me to reach the conclusions I had expressed to him.

This letter is now a source of amusement both to Jeremy and myself and I keep telling him to throw it away to which he laughs, but he never belittles the content of it. Embarrassing as it may be to me now, this letter opened the door to a friendship which I cherish and also to the best job in the world.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley

 *%87
More from Yvonne Hartley

Through case documents and other material I personally have dedicated thousands of hours in understanding Sheila, her character and her illness. At times I have asked Jeremy very personal, probing questions about her and he has always, without any hesitation answered me in a sensitive way with one hundred per cent truthfulness.

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 21, 2020, 03:01:14 PM
Yvonne Hartley

Even though I was only 18 at the time, I remember quite clearly the tragedies that occurred at White House Farm from the media coverage the case attracted, although it wasn’t until I watched the television programme “Crimes that shook Britain” about the case that I felt an overwhelming need to write to Jeremy to express my concerns about his wrongful conviction and to offer my support.

It’s quite embarrassing to recall the content of my first letter to Jeremy where I thought I had spotted something previously missed by the Defence, and wrote pages of analysis of how I saw the case from the limited amount of material available on the internet.

Within a few days of posting the letter I received a lengthy reply back from Jeremy who explained some of the facts behind the issues I had raised and he thanked me for the time it had taken me to reach the conclusions I had expressed to him.

This letter is now a source of amusement both to Jeremy and myself and I keep telling him to throw it away to which he laughs, but he never belittles the content of it. Embarrassing as it may be to me now, this letter opened the door to a friendship which I cherish and also to the best job in the world.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley

 *%87


Vomit break called for, I think.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 03:06:49 PM

Vomit break called for, I think.

You might need a lie down after this


Yvonne Hartley

The recent Bake-Off was done in a wholly innocent manner in tribute to June, Jeremy’s mum. What better way to give tribute to his loving mum than to share with the world his happy memories of baking in the kitchen with June and Sheila and then sharing these recipes so that we too can remember June in a positive way?

Yet again this has been blown out of all proportion by the media and had been depicted in media headlines as something evil and weird.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 03:08:07 PM
Yvonne Hartley

t annoys me greatly that these people state that Jeremy sits in his cell looking over case documents and extracts “typos” as evidence. These people really do not have a clue.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 03:10:19 PM
And Hollys projections are ever present
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 03:16:27 PM
This Is What Everyone Should Know About Covert Abusers by Dr Craig Malkin (2018)

In decades of studies on bullying and aggression, one aspect of pathological narcissism — EE, or exploitation and entitlement — predicts just about every nasty behavior documented, including physical abuse, chronic lies, and even workplace sabotage. But when it comes to predicting aggression, EE also tends to disappear, mathematically, once psychopathy is thrown into the mix. It’s the correlation between psychopathy and narcissism that makes narcissists dangerous.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/romance-redux/201802/is-what-everyone-should-know-about-covert-abusers

“.... if you seek to protect yourself from covert abuse — and to enable yourself to see it coming — you’ll want to remain vigilant of the Dark Tetrad traits, especially dead giveaways like a history of shady behavior at work, plotting to “get back” at others, and quick, retaliatory rage.

And by all means, turn to trusted friends and professionals if you’re faced with someone exhibiting Dark Tetrad traits; it takes powerful support to extricate yourself from the grip of these relationships.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 03:18:44 PM
Yvonne Hartley

Jeremy Bamber is a remarkable, dedicated, resilient, man with a strength of mind which is humbling”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 21, 2020, 03:29:51 PM
Yvonne Hartley

Jeremy Bamber is a remarkable, dedicated, resilient, man with a strength of mind which is humbling”


All I can say is, it clearly sounds as if he's providing her with something she feels has been missing from her life. She speaks like a worshiping, modern day acolyte.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 03:48:18 PM
”The psychopaths would scout for the perfect victim in which they would test their targets for their vulnerability and weaknesses, such as telling a sad story about their lives and observe the target’s response. If the target sympathizes with them, they will continue to evaluation process until they’ve chosen that this is the right target for now.

Phase 2: Once the target has become a potential victim, the psychopath begins to earn their trust through a constant feeding of ‘carefully crafted messages, while constantly using feedback from them to build and maintain control.’ (Anderson, 2006) But in a romantic relationship, the psychopath would use the technique of ‘love-bombing’ as well as earning trust from the potential victim.

http://sites.bu.edu/daniellerousseau/2017/06/20/the-role-of-trauma-in-a-relationship-between-the-psychopath-and-the-victim/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 21, 2020, 04:08:50 PM
Yvonne Hartley

Jeremy Bamber is a remarkable, dedicated, resilient, man with a strength of mind which is humbling”
There’s nowt so queer as folk.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 21, 2020, 04:11:42 PM
Yvonne Hartley

t annoys me greatly that these people state that Jeremy sits in his cell looking over case documents and extracts “typos” as evidence. These people really do not have a clue.

That's EXACTLY what he does!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 04:15:17 PM
That's EXACTLY what he does!

And Mark Newby appears to think Bamber’s case is worth backing?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 04:20:28 PM
In another case here https://www.thejusticegap.com/we-were-never-going-to-be-collateral-damage/

Mark Newby stated,

”Frankly, it was blindingly obvious that the allegations made against him were false back in 2012,’ 

‘That the Crown stuck doggedly to a case – there was not one but two attempts at a retrial – is not only a scandalous waste of money but, even more alarming, reveals a credulous approach to self-evidently flawed evidence. It always was a nothing case. What was the prosecution thinking?’


(In 2015 Jon Robins wrote his interpretation on Geoffrey Long’s case for the Daily Mail - don’t know if he was responsible for the header or not https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3298591/A-father-s-life-destroyed-child-sex-abuse-claims-daughter.html)

On the Bamber case,

Mark Newby said:

The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”

“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.

“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.

“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 21, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
Is it just me, or is the that that a convicted serial killer has his own blog, website and instagram account simply repulsive?  Imagine if Rosemary West had one protesting her innocence and doing bake-offs.  Yuck!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 21, 2020, 06:56:28 PM
In another case here https://www.thejusticegap.com/we-were-never-going-to-be-collateral-damage/

Mark Newby stated,

”Frankly, it was blindingly obvious that the allegations made against him were false back in 2012,’ 

‘That the Crown stuck doggedly to a case – there was not one but two attempts at a retrial – is not only a scandalous waste of money but, even more alarming, reveals a credulous approach to self-evidently flawed evidence. It always was a nothing case. What was the prosecution thinking?’


(In 2015 Jon Robins wrote his interpretation on Geoffrey Long’s case for the Daily Mail - don’t know if he was responsible for the header or not https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3298591/A-father-s-life-destroyed-child-sex-abuse-claims-daughter.html)

Note this at bottom of article
“An earlier version of this article said that Tina Long confessed in court that she had ‘lied about the injustice’. We are happy to clarify that Ms Long’s testimony under cross-examination in a re-trial proved to be unreliable and cast doubt on her allegations. The article also said that Tina and her mother Mrs Susan Hunter had taped proceedings in court. In fact, while a tape-recording was discovered, the evidence suggested neither woman was responsible. A detail that Geoff Long was present at his daughter Tina’s birth, has now been disputed. We are also happy to clarify that Mrs Hunter strongly denies attempting to enrol her grandchildren in Mrs Louise Long’s nursery.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 08:14:12 AM
Note this at bottom of article
“An earlier version of this article said that Tina Long confessed in court that she had ‘lied about the injustice’. We are happy to clarify that Ms Long’s testimony under cross-examination in a re-trial proved to be unreliable and cast doubt on her allegations. The article also said that Tina and her mother Mrs Susan Hunter had taped proceedings in court. In fact, while a tape-recording was discovered, the evidence suggested neither woman was responsible. A detail that Geoff Long was present at his daughter Tina’s birth, has now been disputed. We are also happy to clarify that Mrs Hunter strongly denies attempting to enrol her grandchildren in Mrs Louise Long’s nursery.

Yet Jon Robins article headed, ‘We were never going to be collateral damagehere https://www.thejusticegap.com/we-were-never-going-to-be-collateral-damage/

states,

the first collapsed in February 2014, after it was revealed that the main prosecution witnesses had been recording the trial in a failed attempt to improve their own evidence”

A CPS spokesperson points out that the 2010 convictions were ‘successfully appealed due to a misdirection by the judge in the original case’. ‘

In this article https://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/news/familys-nightmare-after-false-rape-claim-1280242 on the case it states,

Geoff says his solicitor Mark Newby said that “all the evidence” indicated the allegations against his client were false.

And at the foot of the Herald article a note states,

A previous story on the website in November 2015 entitled ‘Family’s nightmare after false rape claim’ stated Tina Long confessed in court that she had “lied about allegations that her father Geoff Long had sexually abused her”. We are happy to clarify that this was not the case.

We have also been asked to point out that evidence gathered by Mr Long’s wife Louise was not used in a retrial at which the Crown Prosecution Service dropped charges against Mr Long.

The article also stated the Longs believed Tina Long made up allegations “because she was jealous of Mr Long and his new life with his family”. We have been asked to point out that was not the case and Ms Long was prompted to report matters to police when she learned Mr Long was opening a children’s nursery.


In the mirrors article here https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/i-turned-detective-clear-innocent-6962497 it states,

“When contacted by the Sunday People, Tina admitted lying about the rape allegation but not about any other aspect of her evidence.

She disputed “everything Geoff and Louise Long have said” and added: “My dad was convicted and it was only quashed on a point of law. I admitted I said my father raped me but it wasn’t my father, I was covering up (for another man).

“There was a pink sink in my room. We’re talking 1970s. Anything could have happened to the pipework. A friend of mine gave evidence under oath and said we used to put our cigarettes out in it.

“This has been going on since 2009. Why have I never been charged with ­perjury? Why have the police never come to me and said I lied in court?”

Geoff’s solicitor Mark Newby said Tina’s lies were exposed in the witness box and the Crown dropped the case within 24 hours before she had finished giving evidence. He said: “It was demonstrated her account had no credibility.”

The CPS said its case was “fatally undermined” by evidence that was inconsistent with the original trial. A spokesman said: “As soon as this became apparent, the CPS offered no evidence.”


In the Justice Gap article above it stated,

A spokesman for Sussex Police said that ‘a not guilty verdict does not automatically mean that witnesses must have committed offences’. ‘The case was fully discussed with senior CPS management after the retrial was discontinued,’ he said. ‘No request or suggestion was received from them that there should be any re-investigation, and there are no grounds for carrying one out.’

Here http://empathygap.uk/Rape%20Case%20Histories%20frozen%2025_1_18.pdf

(p58) it’s claimed

“The motivation for the allegations has been suggested to be Tina’s resentment that children from Geoff’s later marriages were financially better off than her. While Geoff was only a painter and decorator, after his first marriage he later did well in business.
In the view of Geoff’s solicitor, it was ‘blindingly obvious’ that the claims against Geoff were false. Yet an innocent man was subjected to four court appearances, including an appeal and two retrials, before his conviction was quashed.

Would be interested to learn who the author/s of the above pdf is/are
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 22, 2020, 11:37:48 AM
And Mark Newby appears to think Bamber’s case is worth backing?

Who is Mark Newby?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 22, 2020, 11:53:30 AM

All I can say is, it clearly sounds as if he's providing her with something she feels has been missing from her life. She speaks like a worshiping, modern day acolyte.

April, almost ALL of the women who fawn over him are lacking in several ways

The ones I’ve seen are of a certain age — usually between late 50s to late 60s, even 70s

They’re usually plain, ordinary...gullible, naive, desperate to please. But they get very aggressive and uncouth if you say he’s what he is — a mass murderer. They’re often “slow” and not at all bright. Absolutely nothing will convince them of his guilt, even if he admitted it they’d say he’d been forced to lie. The ones I’ve seen live very basic lifestyles, either on benefits or in low paid work.

Their social lives are non-existent and men are scarce on the ground....it’s very sad.

The majority are lonely and need to be needed, so they love nothing better than doing his donkey work. Just a few kisses or a smilie at the end of his letters thrills them to bits, and they probably kiss the paper because he’s touched it...

It’s so, so, so sad. But makes me feel sick.

To be obsessed with a revolting child killer is evil beyond belief
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on April 22, 2020, 12:23:24 PM
April, almost ALL of the women who fawn over him are lacking in several ways

The ones I’ve seen are of a certain age — usually between late 50s to late 60s, even 70s

They’re usually plain, ordinary...gullible, naive, desperate to please. But they get very aggressive and uncouth if you say he’s what he is — a mass murderer. They’re often “slow” and not at all bright. Absolutely nothing will convince them of his guilt, even if he admitted it they’d say he’d been forced to lie. The ones I’ve seen live very basic lifestyles, either on benefits or in low paid work.

Their social lives are non-existent and men are scarce on the ground....it’s very sad.

The majority are lonely and need to be needed, so they love nothing better than doing his donkey work. Just a few kisses or a smilie at the end of his letters thrills them to bits, and they probably kiss the paper because he’s touched it...

It’s so, so, so sad. But makes me feel sick.

To be obsessed with a revolting child killer is evil beyond belief
It's always a source of puzzlement when you perceive someone is obviously deluded and hold bizarre opinions, grasping the totally wrong end of the stick.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 22, 2020, 01:48:33 PM
Who is Mark Newby?

Bamber's solicitor.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on April 22, 2020, 01:57:23 PM
April, almost ALL of the women who fawn over him are lacking in several ways

The ones I’ve seen are of a certain age — usually between late 50s to late 60s, even 70s

They’re usually plain, ordinary...gullible, naive, desperate to please. But they get very aggressive and uncouth if you say he’s what he is — a mass murderer. They’re often “slow” and not at all bright. Absolutely nothing will convince them of his guilt, even if he admitted it they’d say he’d been forced to lie. The ones I’ve seen live very basic lifestyles, either on benefits or in low paid work.

Their social lives are non-existent and men are scarce on the ground....it’s very sad.

The majority are lonely and need to be needed, so they love nothing better than doing his donkey work. Just a few kisses or a smilie at the end of his letters thrills them to bits, and they probably kiss the paper because he’s touched it...

It’s so, so, so sad. But makes me feel sick.

To be obsessed with a revolting child killer is evil beyond belief


Can you provide evidence of what you are saying? You have no idea of the men and women who are friendly with Jeremy for various reasons. It is wrong of you to make assumptions and post as fact. One female who is extremely close to Jeremy is the film maker Emilia di Girolamo. She visits him regularly. She is neither old, frumpy or lacking a man in her life and is an intelligent professional lady. There are many others like her and also intelligent men who are his friends. None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth. I wonder whether the extreme hatred you spout out is because you have something lacking in YOUR life!  The truth will come out eventually when all undisclosed documents are released.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 04:43:42 PM

The truth will come out eventually

Who”s Mark Cropper?

Mark Cropper
@Markocropper
Find out what @EmiliaDG has to say about Jeremy Bamber http://jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo…
5:55 PM · Aug 1, 2011·Twitter Web Client
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 04:45:05 PM
Emilia di Girolamo
Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
So sad that we live in a society where the truth is suppressed to save exposing the wrong doings of officials. #JeremyBamber #devastated
10:18 AM · Apr 26, 2012·Echofon

“writer @EmiliaDG #Emilia_di_Girolamo writes in her blog that #Jeremy_Bamber is innocent because her instincts told her that he was innocent even before she read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction was unsafe.

http://bamberjeremy.blogspot.co.uk/p/emilia-di-girolamo-writer.html

That's it then, the CCRC will only need di Girolamo's instincts, pity the court didn't have her abilities when Bamber was found guilty of all five murders, but then she probably only was a teenager at the time.

We asked di Girolamo what is this overwhelming evidence since we are yet to hear of it but she failed to respond choosing instead to protect her Twitter account and disappear. Does this not tell you all?

We challenge you Emilia di Girolamo to provide this overwhelming evidence or else stick to TV drama programmes and leave real life justice investigations to the professionals?

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/h1n60k


Emilia Di Girolamo
“I don’t have a single doubt that Jeremy is innocent
“During the eight years I worked in offender rehabilitation, I met many men and women convicted of murder and other very serious crimes. Some I met fleetingly, others I worked with intensively but in all cases, it was clear that the person before me was capable of committing the offence their prison file told me they had committed. Even the prisoners who claimed to be innocent victims of a ‘fit up’, were betrayed by aspects of their personality, demeanor, little signs indicative of guilt. Working inside, I quickly learned to trust my instincts. My instincts told me Jeremy was innocent even before I read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction is unsafe”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth.

We do Daisy
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on April 22, 2020, 08:06:27 PM
Who”s Mark Cropper?

Mark Cropper
@Markocropper
Find out what @EmiliaDG has to say about Jeremy Bamber http://jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo…
5:55 PM · Aug 1, 2011·Twitter Web Client

He was part of the original campaign team then did a disappearing act a few years’ ago.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 08:09:03 PM
He was part of the original campaign team then did a disappearing act a few years’ ago.

How do you know they were a ‘he’ out of interest ?

Mark Cropper
@Markocropper
No, nonesene, no waffle, no flim flam, just hard facts supported by evidence http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
9:30 AM · Feb 10, 2011·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/Markocropper/status/35631596950401024

Mark Cropper
https://m.youtube.com/user/markcropper68
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on April 22, 2020, 08:32:22 PM
How do you know they were a ‘he’ out of interest ?

Mark Cropper
@Markocropper
No, nonesene, no waffle, no flim flam, just hard facts supported by evidence http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
9:30 AM · Feb 10, 2011·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/Markocropper/status/35631596950401024


What are you talking about? I know he is a man as I spoke to him. He and his friend Sarah Hanover used to run Jeremy’s campaign while running their own business.  If you want to know the ins and outs I am sure others on this forum can tell you more about them. I also used to contact them regularly when I was typing documents for Jeremy.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 22, 2020, 08:41:19 PM

Can you provide evidence of what you are saying? You have no idea of the men and women who are friendly with Jeremy for various reasons. It is wrong of you to make assumptions and post as fact. One female who is extremely close to Jeremy is the film maker Emilia di Girolamo. She visits him regularly. She is neither old, frumpy or lacking a man in her life and is an intelligent professional lady. There are many others like her and also intelligent men who are his friends. None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth. I wonder whether the extreme hatred you spout out is because you have something lacking in YOUR life!  The truth will come out eventually when all undisclosed documents are released.

Hi Daisy, good to see you posting! With respect to Emilia di Girolamo, she is entitled to her opinion which seems to stem from her thoughts on Sheila fitting the profile of someone who might kill her children - someone she has never met and whose only source of information would be Jeremy. You know all too well how manipulative he turned out to be and I am sure he is very charming to all the 'right' people. I think Jeremy fits the bill of a family annihilator perfectly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 08:50:38 PM

What are you talking about? I know he is a man as I spoke to him. He and his friend Sarah Hanover used to run Jeremy’s campaign while running their own business.  If you want to know the ins and outs I am sure others on this forum can tell you more about them. I also used to contact them regularly when I was typing documents for Jeremy.

You said Mark Cropper ‘did a disappearing act’ ?

Did Sarah Hanover disappear with him?

He was part of the original campaign team then did a disappearing act a few years’ ago.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 08:56:47 PM
Found this

Monday, 24 January 2011
"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.

I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.

I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.

My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.

Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on April 22, 2020, 08:56:56 PM
Hi Daisy, good to see you posting! With respect to Emilia di Girolamo, she is entitled to her opinion which seems to stem from her thoughts on Sheila fitting the profile of someone who might kill her children - someone she has never met and whose only source of information would be Jeremy. You know all too well how manipulative he turned out to be and I am sure he is very charming to all the 'right' people. I think Jeremy fits the bill of a family annihilator perfectly.

Hi Caroline  my post was a response to Ispy who said that all women who support Jeremy are desperate sad individuals. I was just demonstrating that this isn’t true. By the way Ispy obviously includes you as one of those people. How does that make you feel as you used to support Jeremy? I am still waiting for evidence to back up those sweeping statements. If we don’t stop wild assumptions being presented as facts then we lose track of the actual facts.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 08:58:05 PM
He was part of the original campaign team then did a disappearing act a few years’ ago.

If he’s no longer part of the campaign why do his current campaign appear to pretend he is?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 09:01:25 PM
Found this

Monday, 24 January 2011
"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.

I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.

I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.

My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.

Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html

And did Mark Cropper campaign for him for 26 years ?

I thought Aunt Agatha started it all ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 22, 2020, 09:02:54 PM
Hi Caroline  my post was a response to Ispy who said that all women who support Jeremy are desperate sad individuals. I was just demonstrating that this isn’t true. By the way Ispy obviously includes you as one of those people. How does that make you feel as you used to support Jeremy? I am still waiting for evidence to back up those sweeping statements. If we don’t stop wild assumptions being presented as facts then we lose track of the actual facts.

Well, I don't share Spy's view on that - which I am sure you realise. I have been called desperate and sad as someone who now thinks he's guilty so you can't win. I've never been call sad or desparate by anyone who actually knows me - bloody minded maybe but never sad or desparate  @)(++(* - Anyway, hope you're keeping well  ?{)(**
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 22, 2020, 10:00:41 PM
Hi Daisy, good to see you posting! With respect to Emilia di Girolamo, she is entitled to her opinion which seems to stem from her thoughts on Sheila fitting the profile of someone who might kill her children - someone she has never met and whose only source of information would be Jeremy. You know all too well how manipulative he turned out to be and I am sure he is very charming to all the 'right' people. I think Jeremy fits the bill of a family annihilator perfectly.

She wouldn’t have seen Bambers prison files either ie: his security files, pre trial assessment report, risk assessment files etc
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 22, 2020, 10:47:45 PM
Is it just me, or is the that that a convicted serial killer has his own blog, website and instagram account simply repulsive?  Imagine if Rosemary West had one protesting her innocence and doing bake-offs.  Yuck!


Makes my skin crawl
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 22, 2020, 10:50:52 PM
It's always a source of puzzlement when you perceive someone is obviously deluded and hold bizarre opinions, grasping the totally wrong end of the stick.


Perhaps you should tell that to yourself, General

After all, deluded people don’t realise they are...if you finally face up to it you can get help 😊
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on April 23, 2020, 07:13:55 AM

Perhaps you should tell that to yourself, General

After all, deluded people don’t realise they are...if you finally face up to it you can get help 😊
Well at least you've reluctantly come to your senses and admitted your delusion was unfounded.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2020, 10:30:54 AM
Some people are apparently fascinated by his behaviour and how he keeps appealing his 5 life sentences & full life term?

In Jan 2012 here https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killers-lose-european-court-whole-life-appeal-6290743.html it was reported Bamber said,

”Both the trial judge and the Lord Chief Justice set my minimum tariff as 25 years.

"Quite why the Home Secretary felt that I should die in jail when the judges felt otherwise is a mystery.


It’s not really though is it

His psychopathy is the ‘mystery’ to which he refers and it’s why he’s never disclosed or publicised his per trial assessment report

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 23, 2020, 11:16:21 AM
In Jan 2012 here https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killers-lose-european-court-whole-life-appeal-6290743.html it was reported Bamber said,

”Both the trial judge and the Lord Chief Justice set my minimum tariff as 25 years.

"Quite why the Home Secretary felt that I should die in jail when the judges felt otherwise is a mystery.


It’s not really though is it

His psychopathy is the ‘mystery’ to which he refers and it’s why he’s never disclosed or publicised his per trial assessment report


Whilst I'm certain that Jeremy clung to 25 years then freedom, the trial judge added the rider that it remained to be seen whether it it would ever be considered safe to release him, meaning 25 years was a minimum. I'm guessing that the Home Secretary considered it wasn't safe.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2020, 11:43:55 AM

Whilst I'm certain that Jeremy clung to 25 years then freedom, the trial judge added the rider that it remained to be seen whether it it would ever be considered safe to release him, meaning 25 years was a minimum. I'm guessing that the Home Secretary considered it wasn't safe.

And the Home Secretary would have access to ALL of Bamber’s reports - including the ones he doesn’t want his campaigners & supporters to see
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2020, 02:07:53 PM

Can you provide evidence of what you are saying? You have no idea of the men and women who are friendly with Jeremy for various reasons. It is wrong of you to make assumptions and post as fact. One female who is extremely close to Jeremy is the film maker Emilia di Girolamo. She visits him regularly. She is neither old, frumpy or lacking a man in her life and is an intelligent professional lady. There are many others like her and also intelligent men who are his friends. None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth. I wonder whether the extreme hatred you spout out is because you have something lacking in YOUR life!  The truth will come out eventually when all undisclosed documents are released.

No one is immune from being abused by a psychopath like Bamber Daisy - including Emilia di Girolamo

She’s another individual who’s been conned and is being conned by him
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
Hi Caroline  my post was a response to Ispy who said that all women who support Jeremy are desperate sad individuals. I was just demonstrating that this isn’t true. By the way Ispy obviously includes you as one of those people. How does that make you feel as you used to support Jeremy? I am still waiting for evidence to back up those sweeping statements. If we don’t stop wild assumptions being presented as facts then we lose track of the actual facts.

Sadly Daisy that’s how you were hooked in to begin with

And it’s never Bamber’s fault http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8541.0

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
In another case here https://www.thejusticegap.com/we-were-never-going-to-be-collateral-damage/

Mark Newby stated,

”Frankly, it was blindingly obvious that the allegations made against him were false back in 2012,’ 

‘That the Crown stuck doggedly to a case – there was not one but two attempts at a retrial – is not only a scandalous waste of money but, even more alarming, reveals a credulous approach to self-evidently flawed evidence. It always was a nothing case. What was the prosecution thinking?’


(In 2015 Jon Robins wrote his interpretation on Geoffrey Long’s case for the Daily Mail - don’t know if he was responsible for the header or not https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3298591/A-father-s-life-destroyed-child-sex-abuse-claims-daughter.html)

On the Bamber case,

Mark Newby said:

The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”

“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.

“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.

“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”


“The afternoon gave a more critical perspective with solicitor Mark Newby urging the CCRC to undertake more proactive reviews, to challenge the Police and to search for evidence rather than to accept assurances that it had been lost or had never existed. This was important in historic sex abuse cases and Newby cited cases where it was established that defendants were innocent of allegations of child abuse, a subject that Conference Chair, David Rose described as being one of society’s few remaining taboos.

https://www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/righting-wrongs

Why did the CCRC’s John Curtis choose to omit naming the cases Mark Newby cited at the conference from his article?

Did he disagree with him perhaps?

Mark Newby
@MarkNewbyqsj
To be fair great support from CCRC today john Curtis and chairman richard foster - this time CCRC at it's very best
11:56 AM · Dec 13, 2013·Twitterrific for iOS

2 Retweets - 1 by Carolyn Hoyle - 1 by FACT.Uk.org

https://factuk.org/2013/03/12/solicitors-to-challenge-to-sex-offenders-registration-rules/

Newby’s concerns on reviews were echoed by Professor Carolyn Hoyle of Oxford University. Professor Hoyle is leading an externally funded research project covering the Commission’s investigative and decision-making processes. The CCRC has facilitated access to its archives and open interviews with personnel. Hoyle’s initial findings suggest some differences between the CCRC’s investigators. Some appear to be more prepared to go “beyond the bundle” than others, to ask questions, or to conduct crime scene visits, or to speak with those connected with the case be they experts, representatives or police officers.

John Curtis & Mark Newby attended a 2015 meeting held by United Against Injustice

Another speaker was Mick Geen

MICK GEEN will speak about his son Ben Geen a nurse, who was jailed for 30 years for murdering two patients and seriously harming 15 others yet new evidence suggests that no crime ever took place.
Mick will present an overview of the case , where they are with the CCRC and his insight into how evidence can be twisted and manipulated to make the glove fit.

https://www.unitedagainstinjustice.com/speakers-2015

The Court of Appeal judgement re Ben Geen can be found here https://bengeen.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/geen-judgment.pdf

Paras 3 & 4 are worth reading as is Lady Justice Hallett’s comments with regards Geens legal representation on page 32 (foot of judgement)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 23, 2020, 04:06:55 PM

What are you talking about? I know he is a man as I spoke to him. He and his friend Sarah Hanover used to run Jeremy’s campaign while running their own business.  If you want to know the ins and outs I am sure others on this forum can tell you more about them. I also used to contact them regularly when I was typing documents for Jeremy.

Who do you think was feeding these ‘salacious’ stories to the media Daisy ?

The ‘sample’ is a few minutes long - have a listen
‘The Murders at White House Farm’ is available on audiobook now https://www.storytel.com/in/en/books/1169910-The-Murders-at-White-House-Farm

Who do you think was the source(s) for these stories about SC ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2020, 10:01:36 AM
The following was ‘Originally published in the Guardian on 29 October 1986

“Jeremy Bamber, the farmer's son who boasted that he could commit the perfect crime, was gaoled for 25 years yesterday after he was found guilty of murdering five members of his family.

Bamber, aged 25, shot and killed his adoptive parents, Neville and June Bamber, both aged 61, his sister, Sheila Caffell, aged 27, and her six-year-old twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas, at their farmhouse in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex, in August last year in the hope of becoming the sole beneficiary of the family's £436,000 estate.

Bamber staged the massacre in such a way as to raise suspicions that his 27-year-old mentally ill sister had carried out the killings and then turned the gun on herself.

However, after considering the evidence for 9 ½ hours, the jury of seven men and five women at Chelmsford crown court brought in 10-2 majority verdicts against him yesterday on all five counts of murder.

Bamber, who had denied the charges and who had remained impassive throughout the 18-day trial.

Sentencing him, Mr Justice Drake told Bamber that his conduct in planning and carrying out the killing of five members of his family was "evil almost beyond belief".

"It shows that you, young man though you are, have a warped, callous and evil mind concealed behind an outwardly presentable, civilised manner."

The judge said that Bamber's action in killing his mother, father and sister had been dreadful enough. But he went on: "You fired shot after shot into them and also into the two little boys aged six who you murdered in cold blood while they were asleep in their beds.

"I believe that you did so partly out of greed because, although you were a well-off young man for your age, you were impatient for more money.

"You wanted to be master of your own life and to enjoy an inheritance much of which would have come to you anyway in the fullness of time."

In recommending that Bamber serve a minimum of 25 years in prison, Mr Justice Drake said he had to consider when it would be safe to release into society a person who had planned and killed five members of his family.

The police initially believed that Sheila Caffell had indeed carried out the killings and then committed suicide. Before carrying out the murders, Bamber told his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, that he had devised "the perfect murder" in which his sister would be the scapegoat.

A month after the killings, Miss Mugford went to the police and told them that Bamber had confessed to her he was responsible.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/oct/29/archive-essex-family-murders-trial-1986
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2020, 10:17:34 AM
The following is from the Essex Chronicle & says it’s by a person called Hope Woolston who’s referred to as a ‘Multimedia Reporter’

The byline reads -We have taken a look in our archives from 1985’

This is apparently Hope Woolstons interpretation - although the byline is misleading as it states ‘we’ therefore she could have put the article together with others and they’ve not been mentioned or it could mean something else - or it could have been all put together by Hope Woolston & the ‘we’ could simply mean her & the Essex Chronicle?



“Jeremy Bamber and the White House Farm murders have been launched back into the public eye with ITV's new drama.

But, at the time, the case was all over the news.

The drama focuses on the case of Jeremy Bamber - the adopted son who brutally murdered his father and mother Nevill and June, their adopted daughter Sheila and her twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas.

They were all shot dead at the Bamber farmhouse in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, near Maldon, in August 1985.

We have searched through our archives and collected all of the Essex Chronicle's coverage at the time, revealing how the story unfolded to the eyes of the public.

The bold headline emblazoned the newspaper after the horrific incident was first discovered.

Sheila 'Bambi' Caffell, from around the time of her modelling days, was pictured as a happy 19-year-old.

The front page was published on August 9, 1985, just two days after the bodies were found.

At this point, everyone believed that Sheila had committed a murder-suicide, and there was no suggestion that Jeremy Bamber was actually the killer.

The headline for the story, which shook the small Essex town read "FARMHOUSE OF DEATH", expressing how horrific the murders were.

Sheila's mental health is discussed, and her recent "nervous breakdown" is what the article suggests made her do it.

The only mention of Jeremy Bamber is that he had received a phone call from his father on the night of the killings.

It describes how Nevill "phoned his son for help" but that it "failed to save their lives".

Another article tells of the shock that the local community felt.

There is a lot of tributes to Nevill and June from neighbours, local shop owners and even the vicar of the local church.

Reverent Bernard Robson, from St Nicholas church where June was churchwarden, described seeing them just a few days before their tragic deaths.

He said: "I saw Nevill early on Sunday morning at around 8am and there was no inkling that any trouble was brewing."

He said that the couple were "pillars of the church and community" and that Nevill was a "gentleman who did a lot for the village."

Bill Cooper lived close to the Bambers and described them as "very, very nice people."

He told the Essex Chronicle at the time: "They were both kind and considerate. Everyone had a good word for them.

"Whenever Mrs Bamber heard that anyone in the village was sick, she was always straight round to see them. She encouraged and helped everybody."

The week after the White House Farm murders, The Essex Chronicle reported on the inquest openings of the Bamber family.

At the hearing, it was revealed that all of the victims had died from gunshot wounds,

Detective Inspector Bob Miller told the coroner that the fatal wounds on Nevill, June, Daniel and Nicholas had all been inflicted by someone else.

However, he said that the wounds on Sheila suggested that she "apparently" killed herself.

Miller also described where each victim was found during the police raid.

Nevill was found in the kitchen on a chair near the phone, while June was upstairs on the floor of her bedroom.

Sheila was also found in her parents bedroom, close to June.

Daniel and Nicholas were found in their own beds in a different room.

He told the court that a police surgeon, who was called to the farmhouse, said that all of the victims had been dead for "some time" before police found them

Miller said: "Death had been instantaneous, particularly in the case of the two boys who were still lying in a sleeping position."

The Bamber family's funeral was reported in the Essex Chronicle on August 23, 1985.

It was largely focused on Jeremy, portrayed as the grieving son, brother and uncle who had lost all of his immediate family in the shootings.

A picture of Jeremy being comforted by his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, dominates the story.

He is seen with a "grief-stricken" face and described as having "all but collapsed" at the sight of the coffins being carried ahead of him.

There was no suspicion at the time that Jeremy was the real killer, and the Essex Chronicle described how he had to "begin to pick up the pieces of his own shattered life."

Hundreds of mourners attended the service at St Nicholas parish church in Tolleshunt D'Arcy.

The church with a capacity of 180 was packed full with 230 people, standing wherever they could.

Outside the church there was around another 100 people there to show their respects.

Only the coffins of the adults were taken to the church, as the twins had already been buried in London.

Following the public service, they were cremated in a private service in Colchester.

During the service, Reverend Robson spoke a lot about Nevill and June, but only briefly about Sheila.

Afterwards he admitted he didn't know Sheila well enough, he said: "I'm afraid I just did not know her at all and so it was impossible to have given a personal account.

The article mentions two wreaths that were laid by Colin Caffell, Sheila's ex-husband and the father of her two boys.

He laid them both for Sheila, one from Colin which had a card that read: "Dear Sheila. I'll be thinking of you together with our sons forever. Love, Colin."

The other was on behalf of the boys, it said: "We'll be together again soon, Mummy, D and N."

It wasn't until more than a month after the murders that police started to expect someone else was involved.

Before then, the case had been closed in the eyes of the public, with the deaths put down to a murder-suicide carried out by Sheila.

Then Essex Chronicle reported on September 13, 1985, that police had started new enquiries.

National papers at the time speculated that the family could have been killed by a hit man hired by drug traffickers, but the police would not comment.

Mr Simpson, a senior officer from Essex Police said at an inquest: "Our enquiries have continued since the night of the incident.

"The reason we are unable to confirm or deny press speculation such as this is by and large governed by the rules of sub judice and because the inquiries we are making are yet to be finalised and confirmed."

The paper reported that a special task force from Essex Police had been sent to the village and Goldhanger - Jeremy Bamber's house.

They said that they were there to carry out house to house inquiries.

The morning of the publication, Bamber was due in court accused of breaking into a caravan site office and stealing £980.

On September 20, 1985, The Essex Chronicle published a story about claims that the investigation by Essex Police hadn't been done properly.

It featured an interview with Assistant Chief Constable, Peter Simpson, who said he was "perfectly satisfied with the ongoing investigation".

He was answering claims by 'Fleet Street papers' that procedures hadn't been followed and that mistakes had been made.

They wanted to know why police had burned blood stained furniture, if they ignored a blood stained silencer, as well as why the bodies were allowed to be cremated.

When asked about two torches that were found in a hedge near to the house, he said that they believed they had been left by poachers, and were not anything to do with the deaths.

When questioned about the silencer, Simpson said: "At an early stage of the investigation a silencer was taken away from White House Farm for forensic examination.

"The police do not find it unusual to have found a silencer in this house, but until results of the scientific tests are to hand, it will not be possible to confirm whether or not it was used in connection with the deaths."

Responding to the fact that police burned furniture, Simpson said "if anything was destroyed from the farmhouse it was with the knowledge or consent of the investigating officers and we have retained all items or samples that had forensic value."

He revealed that police had begun house to house inquiries and the big question they were asking was "Who did you see around the farmhouse on August 6 and 7?"

Jeremy Bamber wasn't charged with murder until the end of September 1985.

The Essex Chronicle reported on his first appearance at magistrates court, where he smiled at press cameras.

At the short hearing, Bamber's solicitor said his client was "completely innocent".

Mr Bruce Bowler, issuing a statement outside court, said: "In view of the wild speculation which has surrounded this case, my client wishes it to be known that he is completely innocent on all five charges of murder now made against him."

After the 18 minute hearing, Bamber was told the case would be sent to Chelmsford Crown Court, but a date was not set.

He was remanded in custody and as he left court he smiled at the waiting film crews and photographers.

More than a year after his first court appearance, Bamber was found guilty of the White House Farm Murders.

On October 31, 1986, the Essex Chronicle reported on Bamber's trial, conviction and sentencing.

The judge, Mr Justice Drake described Bamber as being "evil almost beyond belief" as he sentenced him to 25 years.

Bamber continued to deny that he was guilty of killing his parents, sister and nephews.

A jury found him guilty of the murders with a majority of 10 to two after nine and a half hours of deliberations.

The Essex Chronicle reported how over the 19 day trial, people queued to try and get a seat in the public gallery, which held 30.

It describes Bamber as having "swallowed several times" when the guilty verdicts were given, even though he had shown very little emotion throughout the trail.

Bamber's family were to thank for a lot of the evidence that lead to his coviction.

They were convinced that Sheila had not killed the family, and Julie Mugford, Jeremy's ex-girlfriend, told police that he had told her about his murder plan.

Passing his sentence, Mr Justice Drake said: "You killed your mother, you killed your father, you killed your sister - alone each would have been a dreadful crime.

"But you killed all of them and you fired shot after into two little boys.

"You murdered them in cold blood while they were asleep in their beds.

"I believe you did so partly out of greed.

"Although you were a well-off young man for your age, you were impatient for more money and possessions.

"I believe you also killed out of an arrogance on your character which made you resent any form of parental restriction or criticism of your behaviour.

"I believe you wanted at once to be master completely of your own lif and to enjoy the inheritance, much of which would have come to you in any event in the fullness of time."

The judge gave Bamber five life sentences and said he found it difficult to "foresee whether it will ever be safe to release into the community someone who can shoot and kill five members of his own family, including two little boys asleep in their beds."

Just below the back page of the sentencing story, was another article all about the police investigation.

It describes how Bamber set the scene of the murders to look like Sheila had killed her family and then herself.

At the trial, the judge criticised the police's lack of care when searching the farmhouse, and accused them of jumping to conclusions.

https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/real-story-jeremy-bamber-white-3739641
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2020, 10:59:27 AM
Here  https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/white-house-farm-murder-statements-21483584

Emma Parker for the Daily Star refers to Bamber as ‘Jeffrey’ with the same spelling as given to ‘Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer’



“The official coroner’s report of the 1985 White House Farm murders suggest Sheila Caffell’s wound “appeared to have been made by her own hand,” inconceivably proving Jeremy Bamber’s innocence, his lawyers have claimed.

Bamber is currently serving a whole life sentence for killing his entire adoptive family in a bloody murder that was originally treated as a murder-suicide.

His sister Sheila Caffell, who died alongside her twin sons, was initially the prime suspect, but police then turned their attention to Bamber after stating she could not have taken her own life because she had two bullet wounds to the neck.

However, statements made by two Essex Police Officers, DS Jones and DI Miller, suggest Caffell only had one gunshot wound.

The findings are backed up by PC Wright, the coroner's officer who provided information for the official coroner's report, who said the appearance of the would "suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell, the wound had been inflicted by her own hand".

Lawyers for Bamber found the evidence in archives of statements made by senior officers and the police surgeon at the time of the murders.

The statements show that before Essex Police began taking crime scene photographs, cops made witness statements suggesting Caffell had only one gunshot wound.

At 8.13am Chief Superintendent Harris and Chief Inspector Gibbons saw Caffell's body in the main room.

Harris stated: "A .22 rifle was lying along Mrs Caffell’s body, the barrel of which was resting just below an entry wound beneath her chin.” Gibbons said he saw “a younger female with a wound to her throat”.

At 8.25am police surgeon Dr Ian Craig entered the house and recorded in a witness statement that "there was what appeared to be an entry wound in the throat".

He confirmed this in 1986 during the Dickinson inquiry into Essex police’s handling of the case, Craig said: “I only saw one gunshot wound at that stage.”

Further statements show DS Jones and DI Miller entered White House Farm together at 9.15am, and recorded in a report dated 15 August: "The wound appeared to have been made by her own hand."

PC Wright , the coroner’s officer who provided information for the official coroner’s report dated 9 August, stated: “The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell the wound had been inflicted by her own hand".

Controversially, it has been recorded scene crime officers were unable to gain access to the house 45 minutes.

The examination is believed to of began at approximately 10am and the Essex police photographer did not start capturing the scene until 10.20am on August 7.

Pictures taken by the photographer show Caffell had sustained two gunshot wounds, which Bamber’s lawyers do not dispute, but suggest the case is prejudiced as the prosecution did not make the jury aware of the statements.

One theory the Jeffrey Bamber campaign has is that a gun went off accidentally as numerous police officers entered the farmhouse.

Mark Newby, a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, told the Guardian: “The jury only heard of the two shots, which was relied upon by the crown to support their case, but this wasn’t the whole picture. It represents yet another significant aspect to this case which supports Jeremy Bamber and undermines this conviction.”

Daily Star Online has reached out to Essex Police for comment.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2020, 11:29:55 AM

No-one saw Sheila at the window, though — and no-one heard a gunshot, which they wold have done.

Hadd Sheila gone berserk, as Jeremy falsely claimed, Sheila would have probably shot herself for them all to see. Why would she care if she’d gone crazy?

But the REAL TRUTH is, there was no-one at the window.

The police said it was a trick of the light, and they even “made” the same shadowy illusion by tilting their heads as they looked at he window afterwards.

This nonsense has been repeated continuously for 30 years now! The police have STATED that they saw NO person at the window. Why keep repeating the same thing, again and again and again, when everyone knows Sheila was already dead?



I genuinely beg to differ!

If there was a cover up, which I believe, emphatically, these are concerns that the police would address.

It's all heresay. There is no evidence whatsoever and therefore is 'not beyond reasonable doubt!'


Aunt Agatha why didn’t Bamber ever tell Brett Collins what he’s told you and others?



”But Brett today demolishes the idea that Bamber can prove he has an alibi which means he could not have been responsible for the massacre.

He insisted:

“He didn’t ever bring up someone being inside or being seen at the window when the police were there with him to me. It’s just bulls**t
.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 24, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
Who did Bamber introduce Aunt Agatha to, Robert Maudsley?

Robert Maudsley, known as ‘Hannibal the Cannibal’ or the ‘Brain Eater’ https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1234599/white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bamber-prison-itv-drama-true-crime-spt

What prison did she visit him in?

Was Bamber ‘friendly’ with David Harker, Ian Huntley, Sidney Cooke?

Harker killed and dismembered mother-of-four Julie Paterson, and admitted eating parts of her flesh with pasta. In 1999 he was sentenced to a minimum of 14 years in prison after admitting manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Alan Taylor, the partner of Harker’s victim later committed murder saying he wanted to be jailed at Wakefield so he could attack Harker.

Nicknamed Hissing Sid, Cooke is a notorious paedophile who is serving two life sentences for a campaign of sexual abuse against two young boys. He’d previously been jailed for the manslaughter of 14-year-old Jason Swift. It’s been reported that in Wakefield prison he’s befriended a fellow inmate known as Britain’s Joseph Fritzl.

https://www.lifedeathprizes.com/real-life-crime/monster-mansion-hm-prison-wakefield-uks-notorious-jail-64494


Worth a listen

‘Damien Echols Chilld Killers Say the Darndest Things!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYOie0tbCVI&feature=youtu.be

Echols is also an activist working on behalf of others wrongly convicted. In 2016, he became involved in the case of Steven Avery, subject of the popular Netflix documentary series, Making a Murderer. Avery is currently serving a life sentence in the murder of 25-year-old Manitowoc County, Wisconsin resident Teresa Halbach. Like the West Memphis Three, Avery has a large group of supporters who believe he is innocent.

“But even today, the wider public remains divided on the case. Many believe the men were innocent, while many others remain skeptical. There are claims that the many documentaries cherry-picked information, leaving out the most damning.
Complicating the story, the men used an unusual legal strategy to escape prison called the Alford plea. In an Alford plea, the defendant asserts he is innocent, but admits the state has enough evidence to convict him. So while they are free, the West Memphis Three are still legally guilty.
So now for the burning question: where are the West Memphis Three now?

https://the-line-up.com/west-memphis-three-where-are-they-now
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 01:52:30 AM
SL also muddies the water enormously in his book by going along with the defence strategy at trial which was to suggest SC used the silencer to murder the her parents and children and then returned it to the gun cupboard before shooting herself.  This scenario is based on the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer originating from an intimate mix of June and NB's blood which is so far fetched its the stuff of lala land.

I belive JB has a poor understanding of his case because he's innocent and probably didn't take it seriously pre trial naively believing he would be found not guilty because he didn't commit what he was found guilty of.  Post trial he lacks the resources to manage his case properly eg no access to forensic textbooks, electronic data management systems and the Internet.  Psychologically its inevitable his long incarceration and fighting a 35 year battle he still hasn't won will have taken an enormous toll. He's also had all manner of people dipping in and out of his case including  cranks and bogus lawyers.

Hi Holly,

I generally hold Scott Lomax in low regard but he does get the silencer evidence right. JB had two excellent, experienced QCs and Roger Wilkes wrote of how they steered him away from conspiracy theories for a very good reason. ( I believe JBs "it's dangerous to speculate" comment with regards to RBs motives was a phrase they drummed into him)

The blood flake wasn't supposedly found, it was found and grouped to match Sheila's blood type.The remote possibility of an intimate mix was just that, remote, but Bamber had hobsons choice to take it or else allege a dastardly fabrication which would have made him appear more than desperate. Arlidge would have made mincemeat of him.

How could he have been so sure the silencer was not on the gun that night if he wasn't there? How could he know that SC hadn't found the moderator and attached it before returning it to the cupboard? How could he be sure of this when the evidence of the forensic experts had identified human blood inside of it, mimicking back spatter? The cross examination would have been devastating.

He simply could not dispute the expert evidence then or now, and as I believe you have posted before, the moderator remains the single most damaging piece of evidence to his claims of innocence IMO.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 02:22:49 AM

Aunt Agatha why didn’t Bamber ever tell Brett Collins what he’s told you and others?



”But Brett today demolishes the idea that Bamber can prove he has an alibi which means he could not have been responsible for the massacre.

He insisted:

“He didn’t ever bring up someone being inside or being seen at the window when the police were there with him to me. It’s just bulls**t
.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285

He didn't bring it up in any of his witness statements either, nor did he mention it when he was arrested - "You can't be serious, all three of us saw someone moving in the house, that's why we ran away"

He only mentioned it at the trial when he became desperate. It was either Rivlin or Lawson that suggested the phrase "a trick of the light" to PC Bews in cross exam. JB is still furious about it.

The CT and supporters still claim that they all saw "a figure" but all PC Myall saw was possible "movement" out the corner of his eye which they quickly dismissed.

The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 07:21:36 AM
He didn't bring it up in any of his witness statements either, nor did he mention it when he was arrested - "You can't be serious, all three of us saw someone moving in the house, that's why we ran away"

He only mentioned it at the trial when he became desperate. It was either Rivlin or Lawson that suggested the phrase "a trick of the light" to PC Bews in cross exam. JB is still furious about it.

The CT and supporters still claim that they all saw "a figure" but all PC Myall saw was possible "movement" out the corner of his eye which they quickly dismissed.

The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?

What's your definition of 'supporter'?

I believe JB to be at the very least a MoJ and in all probability innocent but to start beating the drum about the so-called 'trick of the light' as an alibi some 34 years later doesn't help his case at all.  Hence he was called out on it by BC.

If PS Bews, PC Myall or JB thought the 'trick of the light' was someone moving around inside then how come this isn't mentioned in their wit stats?  None of the officers who arrived later mention it either.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 08:14:28 AM
My point exactly Holly, thank you.

I should clarify,for me, JB supporters fall into two categories, The CT and those that believe every word and desperately misrepresented log they put out and those that have put some serious thought into it. The latter I don't mind, the former will baffle me for the rest of my days.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 09:18:15 AM
My point exactly Holly, thank you.

I should clarify,for me, JB supporters fall into two categories, The CT and those that believe every word and desperately misrepresented log they put out and those that have put some serious thought into it. The latter I don't mind, the former will baffle me for the rest of my days.

I think some of it might be down to personality traits along the lines of Myers Briggs ie how people perceive the world and make decisions.

I was invited to join the CT by JB and the CT but chose not to. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 25, 2020, 09:22:39 AM
What is the CT?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 09:37:54 AM
I think some of it might be down to personality traits along the lines of Myers Briggs ie how people perceive the world and make decisions.

I was invited to join the CT by JB and the CT but chose not to.

It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.

I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!

JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 25, 2020, 10:40:03 AM
What is the CT?


The Campaign team!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.

I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!

JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.

Thank you. 

Yes if I was part of the CT I would want everything done very differently.  I immediately came to loggerheads with a senior member over the graveside reading and decided I could not and would not become part of it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 11:09:07 AM
Thank you. 

Yes if I was part of the CT I would want everything done very differently.  I immediately came to loggerheads with a senior member over the graveside reading and decided I could not and would not become part of it.

I think reading a letter to his supporters and pretending he was talking to his parents was the worst idea anyone could ever have had. Like I said, a laughing stock.

Was it Bambers idea or one of the CT?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 11:13:48 AM
He didn't bring it up in any of his witness statements either, nor did he mention it when he was arrested - "You can't be serious, all three of us saw someone moving in the house, that's why we ran away"

He only mentioned it at the trial when he became desperate. It was either Rivlin or Lawson that suggested the phrase "a trick of the light" to PC Bews in cross exam. JB is still furious about it.

The CT and supporters still claim that they all saw "a figure" but all PC Myall saw was possible "movement" out the corner of his eye which they quickly dismissed.

The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?

There are many of us who have these same questions
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
I think some of it might be down to personality traits along the lines of Myers Briggs ie how people perceive the world and make decisions.

I was invited to join the CT by JB and the CT but chose not to.

“Most of the research supporting the MBTI's validity has been produced by the Centre for Applications of Psychological Type, an organization run by the Myers-Briggs Foundation, and published in the Centre's own journal, the Journal of Psychological Type, raising questions of independence, bias, and conflict of interest.[7]”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers–Briggs_Type_Indicator
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 11:41:20 AM
The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?

The innocence fraud starts with Bamber

This is what the CT state i.e Virginia Greaves phoned Bamber
On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves.[/i]
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness

But it’s alluded to here it was Anji Greaves as opposed to Virginia her sister?
Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

Who was JM thinking of at this point? Did she ever become aware of - or was she ever told of Anji before Bamber’s trial?
”Occasionally choking on her words, she told the court about the night at Caterham Road, when she had begged him to remain with her, and the angry confrontation at Sheila’s flat when she discovered that Jeremy had begun dating a former girlfriend,”,”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

What did Virginia Greaves witness statement say regarding her alleged phone call to Bamber at SC’s flat and did the evidence support the phone call was made by her?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 12:17:50 PM
I think reading a letter to his supporters and pretending he was talking to his parents was the worst idea anyone could ever have had. Like I said, a laughing stock.

Was it Bambers idea or one of the CT?

No idea but if his you would hope they would talk him out of it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 12:20:25 PM
“Most of the research supporting the MBTI's validity has been produced by the Centre for Applications of Psychological Type, an organization run by the Myers-Briggs Foundation, and published in the Centre's own journal, the Journal of Psychological Type, raising questions of independence, bias, and conflict of interest.[7]”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers–Briggs_Type_Indicator

Yes like most things it's not without its critics but it was something widely used in human resources mid 80's.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:22:10 PM

What did Virginia Greaves witness statement say regarding her alleged phone call to Bamber at SC’s flat and did the evidence support the phone call was made by her?

Why didn’t Bamber (or his legal team) consider calling Virginia or Anji Greaves to give evidence in support of his character at his trial?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 12:23:35 PM
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.

I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!

JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.

Jeremy needs people he can manipulate - he has to be in control. The rubbish in the public domain is mostly down to him and as a supporter, I've heard most of it before from the horses mouth - and more besides. I don't think he's done with the BS yet.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 12:24:55 PM
The innocence fraud starts with Bamber

This is what the CT state i.e Virginia Greaves phoned Bamber
But it’s alluded to here it was Anji Greaves as opposed to Virginia her sister?
Who was JM thinking of at this point? Did she ever become aware of - or was she ever told of Anji before Bamber’s trial?
What did Virginia Greaves witness statement say regarding her alleged phone call to Bamber at SC’s flat and did the evidence support the phone call was made by her?

Anji and Virginia Greaves are sisters.  I think JB dated VG briefly at some stage.  Post JM he got together with AG but I think the person phoning when JM smashed a mirror was VG who was calling to rent a room in SC's flat because she worked in London. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:25:25 PM
Jeremy needs people he can manipulate - he has to be in control. The rubbish in the public domain is mostly down to him and as a supporter, I've heard most of it before from the horses mouth - and more besides. I don't think he's done with the BS yet.

Do you think he’s manipulating Mark Newby?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 12:26:28 PM
Anji and Virginia Greaves are sisters.  I think JB dated VG briefly at some stage.  Post JM he got together with AG but I think the person phoning when JM smashed a mirror was VG who was calling to rent a room in SC's flat because she worked in London.

He was also seeing her.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:26:49 PM
Anji and Virginia Greaves are sisters.

Yep they are

I think JB dated VG briefly at some stage.

Where’s her witness statement ?

And where’s her sisters witness statement ?

Post JM he got together with AG

According to the Sun article AG says otherwise ?

I think the person phoning when JM smashed a mirror was VG who was calling to rent a room in SC's flat because she worked in London.

Thought JM smashed the mirror cos she’d realised Bamber was a cheat?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 12:28:15 PM
Why didn’t Bamber (or his legal team) consider calling Virginia or Anji Greaves to give evidence in support of his character at his trial?

It seems many who could have supported the defence case were not called eg the Greaves sister and their mother who knew of JB, former girlfriend SF, relatives by way of Doris Tweed and the Howies.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 12:28:51 PM
Jeremy needs people he can manipulate - he has to be in control. The rubbish in the public domain is mostly down to him and as a supporter, I've heard most of it before from the horses mouth - and more besides. I don't think he's done with the BS yet.

Indeed, what I meant regarding the CT need for control was really a transparent need to be JBs favourite which would give them motive to oust any competition for that position.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 12:29:34 PM
He was also seeing her.

Both sisters simultaneously? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 25, 2020, 12:31:35 PM
Yep they are

Where’s her witness statement ?

And where’s her sisters witness statement ?

According to the Sun article AG says otherwise

I only know what I've read in books.  Maybe Caroline or G-Unit who have CAL's book to hand can check back on her sources.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 12:33:52 PM
Indeed, what I meant regarding the CT need for control was really a transparent need to be JBs favourite which would give them motive to oust any competition for that position.

OK, and yes, I agree, which is where the ridicule comes from, like the 'knitting circle' and the Bamberettes. The CT are like the Bamber version of the WI - at least that's how I perceive them.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:35:26 PM
It seems many who could have supported the defence case were not called eg the Greaves sister and their mother who knew of JB

I asked WHY Holly - WHY weren’t they called?

What could Bamber’s reasoning be for not calling them to support him at his murder trial?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 12:36:39 PM
Yep they are

Where’s her witness statement ? Mike hasn't posted it - will check CAL for you, I have the Kindle version so easier to search and post

And where’s her sisters witness statement ? As above

According to the Sun article AG says otherwise ?

Thought JM smashed the mirror cos she’d realised Bamber was a cheat? - She did
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 12:37:21 PM
Do you think he’s manipulating Mark Newby?

He manipulates everyone - so yes I do.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:38:57 PM
eg the Greaves sister and their mother who knew of JB

What was their mothers name and where’s her WS?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:42:30 PM
He was also seeing her.

Do your mean Bamber was also seeing Virginia or Anji or both - as well as JM?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:47:46 PM
But was JM’s sole reason for throwing the box at the mirror to do with Bamber being a cheat or was it at this point JM could deny her subconscious thoughts no more?

According to the mayo clinic,

Denial is a coping mechanism that gives you time to adjust to distressing situations — but staying in denial can interfere with treatment or your ability to tackle challenges.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 12:49:09 PM
Do your mean Bamber was also seeing Virginia or Anji or both - as well as JM?

The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:52:37 PM
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.

I’m not reading it like that - Hence why I’d like to find out the date he met the Greave sisters

Hollys also introduced their mother now - so maybe she can tell us more about her and where she’s gained this alleged knowledge from?


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:54:08 PM
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.

According to Anji’s Sun interview she appears to have suggested JM’s alleged anger was misplaced towards her sister Virginia and it was her (Anji) who Bamber was cheating on her with not Virginia?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 25, 2020, 12:56:08 PM
I’m not reading it like that - Hence why I’d like to find out the date he met the Greave sisters


Perhaps they did threesomes?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 12:56:51 PM
According to Anji’s Sun interview she appears to have suggested JM’s alleged anger was misplaced ?

Well, I guess she would - not wanting her (or her sister_. to be considered as the 'other woman' - especially given that she would have had a downer on Julie.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 12:59:00 PM

Perhaps they did threesomes?

Did they? I don’t know April I’m trying to establish when Bamber first met the Greaves sisters (family) and who exactly he received a call from at SC flat that triggered JM to throw a wooden box at a mirror?

Was Bamber cheating on all 3 of them at the same time?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 25, 2020, 01:03:14 PM

Perhaps they did threesomes?
No wonder he looked knackered after all that action...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 01:03:49 PM
OK, and yes, I agree, which is where the ridicule comes from, like the 'knitting circle' and the Bamberettes. The CT are like the Bamber version of the WI - at least that's how I perceive them.

I have the same opinion of the Bamberettes as you call them although I refer to them more unkindly as mind controlled cult members, but it's important to delineate the CT from those that mindlessly repeat their nonsense.

The CT itself is something of an enigma, are they serious in their beliefs or do they deliberately spread long debunked misinformation because they know it will attract unquestioning new recruits?

Can you imagine them working for years, baking cakes and spouting lies about CAL and then allowing someone intelligent such as Holly to come along and crack the case? ( assuming the case can be cracked )


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 25, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Did they? I don’t know April I’m trying to establish when Bamber first met the Greaves sisters (family) and who exactly he received a call from at SC flat that triggered JM to throw a wooden box at a mirror?


It's the time-frame I'm questioning. He's still -just about- with Julie, but by the time of his arrest, following a holiday with Brett, he's managed to bag himself a pair of sisters, one of whom seemed to think they had an ongoing relationship.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 25, 2020, 01:06:15 PM
Did they? I don’t know April I’m trying to establish when Bamber first met the Greaves sisters (family) and who exactly he received a call from at SC flat that triggered JM to throw a wooden box at a mirror?

Was Bamber cheating on all 3 of them at the same time?
It was Virginia, although she wasn't one by that time.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:06:48 PM
Well, I guess she would - not wanting her (or her sister_. to be considered as the 'other woman' - especially given that she would have had a downer on Julie.

Bamber would have ‘idealised, devalued & discarded’ all 3 without doubt

But Anji appeared to have still been useful to him
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 25, 2020, 01:07:13 PM
No wonder he looked knackered after all that action...



I knew there had to be an explanation to that photo!!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:12:37 PM
It was Virginia, although she wasn't one by that time.

If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
[/quote]
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 01:17:34 PM
Do you think he’s manipulating Mark Newby?

I think he'll certainly try but MN is perhaps wise to it. I have not seen MN use the word "innocent" or "proof" in regard to Bamber at all, preferring ambiguous terms "the new evidence strongly suggests the chain of events were not... etc.. I think McKay tried to avoid egg on his face in a similar way.

The Secret barrister wrote recently that the idea of a lawyer not wanting to take on a high profile case is laughable, especially a lawyer promoting himself as a champion for MOJs. Think of the publicity! 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:21:07 PM
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.

Anji ‘picked him up’ or Bamber begin to idealise her?

JM without doubt went no contact after the mirror incident

“When a survivor has gone no-contact—in other words, the survivor has chosen to disengage completely from the abusive person—often the person with narcissism will attempt to see if the door is still open for more narcissistic supply. He or she may “hoover” prior survivors by emailing, texting, phoning, or showing up at a survivor’s workplace or residence under the pretext of apologizing for transgressions, delivering flowers, hitting the reset button, or feigning illness or a need for assistance (money, return of belongings, etc.).

This cycle is akin to the Power and Control Wheel often referred to in the domestic violence recovery community. The hoover maneuver is an attempt to see if a prior target of abuse can be conned into another cycle of abuse, resulting in the abusive person reclaiming a sense of power and control by causing pain (emotional and sometimes physical) to a target.

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/hoover-maneuver-the-dirty-secret-of-emotional-abuse-0219154
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:23:37 PM
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.

The way I see it is Bamber appears to have idealised, devalued & discarded JM several times before she finally went no contact

From memory, research suggests this can happen up to 7 times before a victim finally walks away from this type of abuse

It states 7 times here too https://www.thehotline.org/2013/06/10/50-obstacles-to-leaving-1-10/

Leaving is not easy. On average, it takes a victim seven times to leave before staying away for good. Exiting the relationship is most unsafe time for a victim. As the abuser senses that they’re losing power, they will often act in dangerous ways to regain control over their victim.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:29:35 PM
I think he'll certainly try but MN is perhaps wise to it. I have not seen MN use the word "innocent" or "proof" in regard to Bamber at all, preferring ambiguous terms "the new evidence strongly suggests the chain of events were not... etc.. I think McKay tried to avoid egg on his face in a similar way.

Yep
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 25, 2020, 01:30:59 PM
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false)
Sister rivalry?   Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:32:01 PM

The Secret barrister wrote recently that the idea of a lawyer not wanting to take on a high profile case is laughable, especially a lawyer promoting himself as a champion for MOJs. Think of the publicity!

How much do you think the SB is worth now?

Yes have seen their BS on the cab rank rule too - ‘In practice, the rule has been watered down since its inception’  *&^^& ergo it’s a fallacy

The fundamental principle that a barrister, like a cabbie, has to take the first “fare” that arrives. The obvious rationale being to ensure that no-one simply cherrypicks the plum cases (to mangle a fruit metaphor), and to maintain the cherished independence of the bar.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/glossary/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
Sister rivalry?   Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.

But Bamber was and is renowned for telling one person one thing and another person something else entirely

Charles Marsden’s is just one version

What did the sisters say?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:48:42 PM
Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.

I’ve not brought into this theory

JM was a victim of Bambers the moment she met him

He didn’t suddenly become a psychopath from point of meeting JM

She, or someone like her, could have been part of his plan from the off ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 25, 2020, 01:49:26 PM
But Bamber was and is renowned for telling one person one thing and another person something else entirely

Charles Marsden’s is just one version

What did the sisters say?
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 01:55:16 PM
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’



Why does it appear Bamber and Mike T have chosen to withhold and not put Virginia Greaves witness statement into the public domain?

It’s similar to the vets statement scenario

“Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’

If true why didn’t Virginia warn her sister Anji; or did she?

Was Virginia concerned for JM ?

Did JM cut herself?

Was Bamber lying or embellishing ?

What was the date of Virginia’s WS? Had Bamber spoken to her before she’d made it and influenced her thoughts?


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 02:17:02 PM
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
[/color]

This reads like JM was in distress and Bamber was making fun of her to someone he’s cheating on her with

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 02:35:53 PM
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

How much was Anji paid for her interview with the Sun; presuming she was paid ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 02:42:03 PM
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:

Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.

We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.


https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/]

Does anyone else remember George & him ‘helping’ Peter Hakala ? https://www.redbubble.com/fr/people/georgecmbs/journal?tag_id=george

George Coombs
@GeorgeCoombs17
Yes, I heard only today that things in wakefield and elsewhere are bad-I'd like to see some action-social distancing in e.g wakefield, is a joke
https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeCoombs17/status/1253804726187147265


HAKALA V REGINA
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff7ad60d03e7f57eb11e0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 03:32:50 PM
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’


Is this really what Virginia said on the phone to Bamber or is this what she told police? 

Was it even Virginia ? Could it have been Anji?

When did she (Virginia) next speak to Bamber ? What’s the back story here?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 04:17:18 PM
Anji and Virginia Greaves are sisters.  I think JB dated VG briefly at some stage.  Post JM he got together with AG but I think the person phoning when JM smashed a mirror was VG who was calling to rent a room in SC's flat because she worked in London.

The only women I've read about him bedding are Suzette Ford, JM, Anji Greaves (think he might have kept it in the family with her sister Virginia too?) and someone he met at The Chequers on a night out with Charles Marsden but its unclear whether he actually did the biz or not.  Oh and I think JM's friend, Liz Rimmington, claimed he did the biz with her. 

The important thing for me is that no women has ever come forward and said he was violent or abusive.

Without a timeline of when Bamber was ‘bedding’ who the real picture of how he was treating JM at that time isn’t clear

The fact ‘no women’ has come forward doesn’t suggest Bamber wasn’t violent - there could be various reasons why they’ve chosen to not come forward and he’s a convicted mass murderer and child killer after all


As for his abuse of others - it’s all there if you choose to see it

Who did Bamber meet at ‘The Chequers on a night out with Charles Marsden’ ?

What date was that and was this yet another person he cheated on JM with?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 04:20:42 PM
How much do you think the SB is worth now?

Yes have seen their BS on the cab rank rule too - ‘In practice, the rule has been watered down since its inception’  *&^^& ergo it’s a fallacy

The fundamental principle that a barrister, like a cabbie, has to take the first “fare” that arrives. The obvious rationale being to ensure that no-one simply cherrypicks the plum cases (to mangle a fruit metaphor), and to maintain the cherished independence of the bar.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/glossary/

I would imagine the SB is worth a few quid but wouldn't like to guess.

Yes, there is probably a big difference between the principle of the cab rank rule and how it works in practice but generally, lawyers aren't remembered for the cases they lost anyway. Mark Newby will be but a footnote in the lastest failed attempt at appeal but will be a hero in the MOJ movement for even taking it on, drumming up plenty of business in the process.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 04:38:52 PM
Why does it appear Bamber and Mike T have chosen to withhold and not put Virginia Greaves witness statement into the public domain?

It’s similar to the vets statement scenario

“Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’

If true why didn’t Virginia warn her sister Anji; or did she?

Was Virginia concerned for JM ?

Did JM cut herself?

Was Bamber lying or embellishing ?

What was the date of Virginia’s WS? Had Bamber spoken to her before she’d made it and influenced her thoughts?

There are a lot of statements missing, probably some bias going on but to be fair, we wouldn't have what we have is Mike didn't post them - like him or loathe him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 04:40:47 PM
I would imagine the SB is worth a few quid but wouldn't like to guess.

Yes, there is probably a big difference between the principle of the cab rank rule and how it works in practice but generally, lawyers aren't remembered for the cases they lost anyway. Mark Newby will be but a footnote in the lastest failed attempt at appeal but will be a hero in the MOJ movement for even taking it on, drumming up plenty of business in the process.

Well, lets face it, we're talking about him and had he not been Bambers latest - we'd never have heard of him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 04:46:07 PM
There are a lot of statements missing, probably some bias going on but to be fair, we wouldn't have what we have is Mike didn't post them - like him or loathe him.

It’s not about ‘like him or loathe him’ Caroline it’s about the way he and Bamber at one time directed the narrative of how his case was presented in the public domain

Why the use of ‘certain documents’ ?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.0

When were the case files placed in the public domain do you remember?

There are differing views on the actions of Mike T placing certain documents into the public domain - didn’t CC mention about having to speak with his daughter about what happened because of her surname & his fears of her finding crime scene photos on the internet ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 04:54:59 PM
It’s not about ‘like him or loathe him’ Caroline it’s about the way he and Bamber at one time directed the narrative of how his case was presented in the public domain

Why the use of ‘certain documents’ ?
It's sad that
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.0

I have no reason to stick up for Mike and never would but it's up to people to see beyond the bias and not believe everything he says. Clearly the use of 'certain documents' is to portray a particular view - if people are willing to follow that view like sheep, frankly - that's their problem. It's unfortunate that a big part of the picture is missing which leads people to speculate but at least there are enough of us that who don't follow Mike's crumb trail and realise it's leading away from the truth.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 05:01:53 PM
I have no reason to stick up for Mike and never would but it's up to people to see beyond the bias and not believe everything he says. Clearly the use of 'certain documents' is to portray a particular view - if people are willing to follow that view like sheep, frankly - that's their problem. It's unfortunate that a big part of the picture is missing which leads people to speculate but at least there are enough of us that who don't follow Mike's crumb trail and realise it's leading away from the truth.

Thanks for that but I’m not at all interested in Mike T

I’m interested in finding out when Bamber met the Greave sisters and what their statements said and why they appear to have been kept hidden from the public
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 05:07:25 PM
There are a lot of statements missing, probably some bias going on but to be fair, we wouldn't have what we have is Mike didn't post them - like him or loathe him.

The Greave sisters statements can’t be missing if CAL has quoted from them

They appear to have been held back from the blue forum as opposed to missing is what I mean Caroline.

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

And I’m certain this news article was posted on one of the forums at one time
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 05:09:11 PM
The Greave sisters statements can’t be missing if CAL has quoted from them

And I’m certain this news article was posted on one of the forums at one time

They won't be missing, CAL obviously obtained her own copies. If Mike has them then he must have chosen not to post them.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 05:17:06 PM
I have no reason to stick up for Mike and never would but it's up to people to see beyond the bias and not believe everything he says. Clearly the use of 'certain documents' is to portray a particular view - if people are willing to follow that view like sheep, frankly - that's their problem. It's unfortunate that a big part of the picture is missing which leads people to speculate but at least there are enough of us that who don't follow Mike's crumb trail and realise it's leading away from the truth.

I was referring to Bamber’s ‘crumb trials’ not Mikes

On the whole the CT’s narrative and understanding of the case has come from Bamber

Whilst he’s kept the CT and his supporters busy focusing on JM, the other women stories haven’t been seen for what they were/are and for how they change JM’s position at that time

For example, JM sold her story following the guilty verdict but so it appears did Anji Greaves

They were both sat in hotel rooms with journalists it seems but nothing appears to have been mentioned about this fact

How much was Anji Greaves paid?


The other woman he was going to date dodged a bullet, eh?!  Bet she can’t believe her luck.

Anji or Virginia Greave could have been in JM’s position having to give evidence in court and I suspect both of them know much more than they’ve ever let on.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 05:57:57 PM
They won't be missing, CAL obviously obtained her own copies. If Mike has them then he must have chosen not to post them.

Why though. Why didn’t Mike post them?

Did he think their contents was irrelevant to the back story?

Did he think they painted Bamber in a poor light?

Why didn’t Bamber or his legal team choose to use the Greave sisters as witnesses at his trial?

Maybe Mike will have a hunt through his files and share their content?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 25, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
Why though. Why didn’t Mike post them?

Did he think their contents was irrelevant to the back story?

Did he think they painted Bamber in a poor light?

Why didn’t Bamber or his legal team choose to use the Greave sisters as witnesses at his trial?

Maybe Mike will have a hunt through his files and share their content?


The first answer which comes to mind, is that if one wishes to show someone in a good light, one wouldn't produce anything which hinted at them being anything other.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 06:55:46 PM
I was referring to Bamber’s ‘crumb trials’ not Mikes

On the whole the CT’s narrative and understanding of the case has come from Bamber

Whilst he’s kept the CT and his supporters busy focusing on JM, the other women stories haven’t been seen for what they were/are and for how they change JM’s position at that time

For example, JM sold her story following the guilty verdict but so it appears did Anji Greaves

They were both sat in hotel rooms with journalists it seems but nothing appears to have been mentioned about this fact

How much was Anji Greaves paid?

Anji or Virginia Greave could have been in JM’s position having to give evidence in court and I suspect both of them know much more than they’ve ever let on.

The difference is that Julie was a witness and although I don't agree that her being paid for the article makes any difference to the case, I can see why people might. However, her agreeing to do the article came long after she had already made her statement and so her testimony wasn't influenced by the payment she got for it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on April 25, 2020, 07:06:03 PM
The difference is that Julie was a witness and although I don't agree that her being paid for the article makes any difference to the case, I can see why people might. However, her agreeing to do the article came long after she had already made her statement and so her testimony wasn't influenced by the payment she got for it.

Wasn't Julie initially reluctant about speaking to the Press at all and only did so eventually on her lawyers advice to get them off her back?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 25, 2020, 07:10:23 PM
Wasn't Julie initially reluctant about speaking to the Press at all and only did so eventually on her lawyers advice to get them off her back?

That's correct, she was hounded by all of the tabloids and was advised to pick one so the other would back off.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 08:18:36 PM
The difference is that Julie was a witness and although I don't agree that her being paid for the article makes any difference to the case, I can see why people might. However, her agreeing to do the article came long after she had already made her statement and so her testimony wasn't influenced by the payment she got for it.

She was but it’s still possible Anji and Virginia Greaves knew much more than they ever let on

Am guessing they were both discarded

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 08:42:54 PM

It's the time-frame I'm questioning. He's still -just about- with Julie, but by the time of his arrest, following a holiday with Brett, he's managed to bag himself a pair of sisters, one of whom seemed to think they had an ongoing relationship.

Is this when he’s met the sisters April - between his holiday with Brett & his arrest?

I’ve never seen Bamber deny these ‘relationships’

What’s he told the CT and his supporters ?

This is what he appears to have written to CAL

“Jeremy states that after he was led down to his cell for the night , DCI Taff Jones paid him a visit:

He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”

(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

Are there other witnesses to the above alleged comments made by DCI Taff Jones by the way?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 08:52:40 PM
“Jeremy states that after he was led down to his cell for the night , DCI Taff Jones paid him a visit:

He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”

(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

But wouldn’t he have gone and seen Anji Greaves
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 08:57:02 PM
This is what he appears to have written to CAL

“Jeremy states that after he was led down to his cell for the night , DCI Taff Jones paid him a visit:

He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”

(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

So DCI Taff Jones allegedly pays Bamber a visit in his cell - they allegedly have the conversation above - then when he’s let out on bail the next day he’s met by Rodney Brown and Anji

Sitting beside him was Angela Greaves, Virginia’s older sister. A beautician six years Jeremys senior, ‘Anji’ had quickly grown close to Jeremy following his visits with Virginia: ‘The poor chap was on Valium and he was drinking. He had nobody to turn to. His relatives were fighting over everything. It was awful, bloody awful’ Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
“Regardless of what lay behind Julies motivations to go to the police, Anji was there to meet Jeremy upon his release.”


(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

How did this meeting come about ? (Rodney picking up Bamber from the court with Anji in the car )

Who set it up?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 09:37:23 PM
”But Brett today demolishes the idea that Bamber can prove he has an alibi which means he could not have been responsible for the massacre.

He insisted:

“He didn’t ever bring up someone being inside or being seen at the window when the police were there with him to me. It’s just bulls**t”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285

On the steps of Morshead Mansions, Brett Collins told the Evening Standard that Jeremy maintained his innocence ‘and I believe him. There’s no love lost between Jeremy and his immediate relatives. But his friends, including his girlfriend Angela, will be standing by him and we hope that the truth will finally prevail in what is a most confusing series of events.’ He flew back to New Zealand on 3rd November 1985, following proceedings from afar.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=jeremy+bamber+rodney+brown+anji&source=bl&ots=h8PnOFTeYj&sig=ACfU3U25vYTa3CZuagVZ6JIVTldkpqFrCQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6MnRs4TpAhWJXhUIHQ3YDioQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20rodney%20brown%20anji&f=false

Did Bamber ever write to Brett or receive a letter from him from New Zealand and did Brett & Anji keep in contact? 

Does anyone know?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 09:49:07 PM
Lots of good questions Nicholas,

What happened for BC to resurface and turn on his old mate apart from another 2 minutes of fame and a modest cheque from a journalist?

The subject we all want him to shed light on is the attempt to sell Sheila's dignity to the NOTW and his part in it.

Was BC more involved or suspicious than he is prepared to let on?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 25, 2020, 09:57:20 PM
Lots of good questions Nicholas,

What happened for BC to resurface and turn on his old mate apart from another 2 minutes of fame and a modest cheque from a journalist?

The subject we all want him to shed light on is the attempt to sell Sheila's dignity to the NOTW and his part in it.

Was BC more involved or suspicious than he is prepared to let on?


He may have been privy to much more knowledge, than Julie, of what were Jeremy's thoughts. He's certainly likely to have known as much.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 10:09:01 PM
I have the same opinion of the Bamberettes as you call them although I refer to them more unkindly as mind controlled cult members, but it's important to delineate the CT from those that mindlessly repeat their nonsense.

The CT itself is something of an enigma, are they serious in their beliefs or do they deliberately spread long debunked misinformation because they know it will attract unquestioning new recruits?

Can you imagine them working for years, baking cakes and spouting lies about CAL and then allowing someone intelligent such as Holly to come along and crack the case? ( assuming the case can be cracked )

The MOJ movement is like a cult

16 Red Flags That You Might Be in a Cult
Literally speaking, a cult is a social group that’s defined by its religious, spiritual or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a personality, object, or goal.
That doesn’t sound too scary, right?
Well, that’s kind of the point.
A group of people united by a single cause? Sign me up!
Not so fast.
When you take into account the sociological side of things, cults can be a bit more nefarious. The social group is typically socially deviant in some way — not necessarily a bad thing, but it could lead to dangerous situations.”
“In a healthy social setting, people should be encouraged to question everything. After all, skepticism can be a very healthy trait when it comes to making huge decisions that affect a large group of people!
But in a cult? Not a chance.”
“Anyone who questions the group’s leader or tenets is considered a traitor to the group as a whole, or even a danger to its constituents.
Doubt or questions may even be punished.”
“Humans are social creatures. Therefore, if one person sees their friends and contemporaries participating in some sort of group chant or denunciation service, they’ll naturally want to be part of the crowd and participate as well.
Going against the grain might not only be dangerous; it could be undesirable from a social standpoint as they don’t want to lose their friends.”

Full article here https://twentytwowords.com/signs-youre-in-a-cult/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 25, 2020, 10:26:41 PM
Indeed, what I meant regarding the CT need for control was really a transparent need to be JBs favourite which would give them motive to oust any competition for that position.

This is an interesting paper

‘Cult membership: What factors contribute to joining or leaving?’ by M.Rousselet et al (Nov 2017)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165178116319941
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 25, 2020, 10:51:17 PM
I've noticed the cult behaviour. It seems you only need to trot out the usual lines about the corrupt CJS, ineffective CCRC etc and you are welcomed in with no questions asked. Especially not difficult questions.

I don't really get it. Say I was wrongly convicted of something I didn't do - I would expect ( or at least hope ) that my Mum would stand by me and believe but I would also hope that anyone that could help me would remain objective enough to be able to do so. Surely if I was really innocent, I would only be too happy to answer those difficult questions and indeed, have some sort of answer for them.

Conversely, if I was guilty and attempting innocence fraud, wouldn't it be kinder to persuade me not to waste mine and everybody's time?

Great article, fits the Bamber campaign followers and the wider MOJ "movement" to a tee.  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 11:02:03 AM
Clearly the use of 'certain documents' is to portray a particular view - if people are willing to follow that view like sheep, frankly - that's their problem. It's unfortunate that a big part of the picture is missing which leads people to speculate but at least there are enough of us that who don't follow Mike's crumb trail and realise it's leading away from the truth.

Bamber and his ‘lawyers’ have recently fed a ‘crumb trail’ to certain journalists

”While Bamber’s lawyers do not dispute that Caffell had two gunshot wounds by the time official police photographs were taken, they believe the failure to inform the jury of these statements prejudiced the case.
“Mark Newby, a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, told the Guardian: “The jury only heard of the two shots, which was relied upon by the crown to support their case, but this wasn’t the whole picture. It represents yet another significant aspect to this case which supports Jeremy Bamber and undermines this conviction.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction

The jury also only heard from JM and didn’t hear the back story or ‘whole picture’ regarding Bamber and his activities around the time which lead JM to finally leave him.

Anji and Virginia Greaves statements are significant, whether they were witnesses at Bamber’s trial or not

I doubt their evidence will support Bamber but it will add yet further weight to JM’s evidence and show Bamber’s attempts of innocence fraud for what it is
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 11:28:04 AM
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

But as Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone reported in the Guardian, the silencer was central to Bamber’s trial and vital in persuading the jury of his guilt.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bambers-lawyers-challenge-cps-over-non-disclosure/

JM’s evidence was also ‘central’ to Bamber’s trial and ‘vital in persuading the jury of his guilt

If Anji believed JM was ‘so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer’ as the Sun reported, it might be worthwhile tracking down both sisters to establish the facts of the matter
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 26, 2020, 11:32:50 AM
But as Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone reported in the Guardian, the silencer was central to Bamber’s trial and vital in persuading the jury of his guilt.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bambers-lawyers-challenge-cps-over-non-disclosure/

JM’s evidence was also ‘central’ to Bamber’s trial and ‘vital in persuading the jury of his guilt

If Anji believed JM was ‘so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer’ as the Sun reported, it might be worthwhile tracking down both sisters to establish the facts of the matter

And Julie maintains her stand today.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 11:38:21 AM
And Julie maintains her stand today.

IF Bamber were to get past the CCRC with the sound moderator evidence, for example - would JM’s evidence at trial matter to the Court of Appeal?

What if the CCRC only referred on the SM evidence?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 26, 2020, 11:54:38 AM
IF Bamber were to get past the CCRC with the sound moderator evidence, for example - would JM’s evidence at trial matter to the Court of Appeal?

What if the CCRC only referred on the SM evidence?

I'm no lawyer, but I think IF (and it's a massive IF), he was successful via the CCRC, he was have to face a retrial and Julie (I am sure) would be called.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 11:55:02 AM

Spot on, Common Sense.

We all know Jeremy Bamber is guilty, as does he. As did the jury. And as did the judge and COA judges.

Bamber’s few supporters try to distort & twist ludicrous points that have no significance — and were dealt with decades ago.

They can spout until they’re blue in the face, but the courts made their mind up 34 years ago and knew far more than any of us do; hence why his sentence was INCREASED to Life without Parole.

All these petty little points they try to make have been batted out of court years ago...the ludicrous suggestions that the police shot Sheila, Crispy shot her, the police set him up, the police moved her body...it’s all BS. They’ll be doing this until JB pops his clogs in his cell...they seem to live and breathe him. I find it revolting how anyone can be drawn to a mass murderer who also shot dead two little boys...

I share your disdain for the CT and those that repeat their desperate stupid dishonest nonsense but I take the view that the there is some room for legitimate doubt about aspects of the case and respect others differing opinions where they are based on fact.

Unlike the Bamberettes, I have no emotional investment here, I couldn't care less if it turns out he is innocent after all but I have been waiting 34 years for something concrete to convince me and so far.. nothing



I’m afraid I can’t agree there.

I’ve seen nothing at all that gives any room for doubt whatsoever. Nothing.

He, and only he was capable of killing those five members of his family. And believe me, if I did indeed think he could in any way be innocent I’d fight his corner, but he’s as guilty as sin — and there’s absolutely nothing but ludicrous conspiracies to try and make some people doubt his conviction.

He’s lied profusely, throughout, changed his stories...and innocent men don’t change their stories do they...

So why do you think Mark Newby has decided to represent him and advance yet more nonsense? as I see it

So what do the defence know about Bamber’s activities that they’ve not shared ?

Would they have a timeline of his apparent over lapping ‘relationships’ for example and would they know JM was abused by Bamber?

The abuse of JM was never explored during Bamber’s trial - the defence attempted to portray her as a ‘scorned women’ instead

They jury nor prosecution it seems were never in possession of the full facts of this aspect of the case

Mark Newby stated:

”It is disappointing that the CPS has chosen not to engage with that process and accordingly there is no alternative but to pursue that judicial review, particularly in circumstances where it appears that this may demonstrate that a misleading position was placed before the jury in relation to the forensic evidence.’”

https://www.thejusticegap.com/bambers-lawyers-challenge-cps-over-non-disclosure/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 26, 2020, 11:57:19 AM
Mark Newby recently stated:

”It is disappointing that the CPS has chosen not to engage with that process and accordingly there is no alternative but to pursue that judicial review, particularly in circumstances where it appears that this may demonstrate that a misleading position was placed before the jury in relation to the forensic evidence.’”

https://www.thejusticegap.com/bambers-lawyers-challenge-cps-over-non-disclosure/

Lots of eye rolling in CPS offices.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 12:06:19 PM
I think the 2002 appeal was JBs own fault. Unlike an appeal referred by the single judge, a referral by the CCRC allows other points to be thrown in without permission. I doubt any QC would have annoyed the court with the idiotic and ultimately self defeating nonsense that only Bamber could have insisted upon.

I think any defence that brings up evidence of a body being moved post mortem when his client is accused of staging the scene would likely be struck off - a point emphasised by the CoA regarding the bible issue.


Do you see Mark Newby being struck off - is that what you are saying ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 12:21:35 PM
Conversely, if I was guilty and attempting innocence fraud, wouldn't it be kinder to persuade me not to waste mine and everybody's time?

A speech of interest by The Rt Hon Lord Reed

“Lies, damned lies: Abuse of process and the dishonest litigant1” (26 October 2012)
https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-121026.pdf

& a brief bio

Lord Reed
Robert John Reed, Lord Reed of Allemuir took up appointment as President of The Supreme Court on 13 January 2020, suceeding Lady Hale of Richmond. Upon this appointment, Lord Reed became a life peer.
Prior to his appointment as President, Lord Reed previously served as Deputy President of The Supreme Court from 7 June 2018 and was originally appointed as a Justice on 6 February 2012.
He studied law at Edinburgh University and undertook doctoral research in law at the University of Oxford. He qualified as an advocate in Scotland and as a barrister in England. He practised at the Scottish Bar in a wide range of civil cases, and also prosecuted serious crime.
He served as a senior judge in Scotland for 13 years. From 2008 to 2012 a member of the Inner House of the Court of Session, and from 1998 to 2008 a member of the Outer House of the Court of Session, where he was the Principal Commercial Judge.
As well as sitting on the Supreme Court and the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, he is also a member of the panel of ad hoc judges of the European Court of Human Rights, and is a Non-Permanent Judge of the Court of Final Appeal in Hong Kong. He is also the Visitor of Balliol College, Oxford.
https://www.supremecourt.uk/about/biographies-of-the-justices.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 12:31:38 PM
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

As I’ve said before, am sure this article was posted on another forum - maybe it was the one a former Bamber supporter had taken down?

If anyone finds it in an archive would be worthwhile posting - it’s content will be telling

Wonder if Mark Newby has copies of all the old news articles featuring Bamber?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 26, 2020, 12:44:09 PM
Do you see Mark Newby being struck off - is that what you are saying ?

No, I meant the trial lawyers. Bamber was accused of staging the scene so to bring up movement of her body post mortem which could have been attributed to either him or bungling police would have been highly irresponsible for defence to put before a jury. Likewise, the mirrored bloodstains in the bible.

A barrister should never ask a question if they don't know what the answer will be and definitely not ask a question when the answer will be damaging to their clients case!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 12:55:35 PM
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
18h
The prosecution of #LiamAllan on rape charges was only dropped after the police belatedly disclosed undermining evidence. This begs the question: When will Essex police disclose allegedly withheld evidence in the case of #JeremyBamber? - Peter Tatchell
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1254101288016642048


JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
18h
Essex Police are withholding:

- audio recordings
- forensic reports
- photographs
- statements
- DS Kenneally's report: evidence showed Sheila responsible for murdering her family & committing suicide

#JeremyBamber #WhiteHouseFarm

11,093 signatures!
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1254103566081458179


Bamber and his campaign team are withholding a substantial amount of information from the public domain - especially related to Bamber’s abuse of JM
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 01:01:52 PM
JB Campaign LTD Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
18h
Have you ever wondered who tends the graves of #JeremyBamber's parents?

It's not Jeremy's relatives bringing flowers and tending to the graves. It's Jeremy's friends.

https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/graves-of-jeremy-s-family… #WhiteHouseFarm
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1254096559513403399

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 01:08:08 PM
Bamber and his campaign team are withholding a substantial amount of information from the public domain - especially related to Bamber’s abuse of JM

Domestic Violence and Abuse
When people think of domestic abuse, they often focus on domestic violence. But domestic abuse includes any attempt by one person in an intimate relationship or marriage to dominate and control the other. Domestic violence and abuse are used for one purpose and one purpose only: to gain and maintain total control over you. An abuser doesn’t “play fair.” An abuser uses fear, guilt, shame, and intimidation to wear you down and keep you under their thumb.
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/abuse/domestic-violence-and-abuse.htm

21 Warning Signs of an Emotionally Abusive Relationship
”You may find yourself feeling confused about the relationship, off balance or like you are “walking on eggshells” all the time. This is the kind of abuse that often sneaks up on you as you become more entrenched in the relationship. I am talking here about psychological abuse, which is also known as mental or emotional abuse.

Psychological abuse occurs when a person in the relationship tries to control information available to another person with intent to manipulate that person’s sense of reality or their view of what is acceptable and unacceptable. Psychological abuse often contains strong emotionally manipulative content and threats designed to force the victim to comply with the abuser’s wishes

https://psychcentral.com/blog/21-warning-signs-of-an-emotionally-abusive-relationship/


Without doubt this is what Bamber was doing to JM and more than likely why she didn’t go to the police sooner
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 01:14:40 PM
21 Warning Signs of an Emotionally Abusive Relationship
”You may find yourself feeling confused about the relationship, off balance or like you are “walking on eggshells” all the time. This is the kind of abuse that often sneaks up on you as you become more entrenched in the relationship. I am talking here about psychological abuse, which is also known as mental or emotional abuse.

Psychological abuse occurs when a person in the relationship tries to control information available to another person with intent to manipulate that person’s sense of reality or their view of what is acceptable and unacceptable. Psychological abuse often contains strong emotionally manipulative content and threats designed to force the victim to comply with the abuser’s wishes

https://psychcentral.com/blog/21-warning-signs-of-an-emotionally-abusive-relationship/


Without doubt this is what Bamber was doing to JM and more than likely why she didn’t go to the police sooner

A more sophisticated form of psychological abuse is often referred to as “gaslighting.” This happens when false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity. Examples may range simply from the abuser denying that previous abusive incidents ever occurred to staging bizarre events with the intention of confusing the victim.

A common form of emotional abuse is “I love you, but…” That may sound nice at first, yet it is both a disguised criticism and a threat. It indicates, “I love you now, but if you don’t stop this or that, my love will be taken away.” It is a constant jab that slowly strips away your self-esteem. Abusers get a lot of reinforcement out of using the word “love” as it seems to become a magic word to control you.

Psychological abuse can look like:

1. Humiliating or embarrassing you.
2. Constant put-downs.
3. Hypercriticism.
4. Refusing to communicate.
5. Ignoring or excluding you.
6. Extramarital affairs.
7. Provocative behavior with opposite sex.
8. Use of sarcasm and unpleasant tone of voice.
9. Unreasonable jealousy.
10. Extreme moodiness.
11. Mean jokes or constantly making fun of you.
12. Saying “I love you but…”
13. Saying things like “If you don’t _____, I will_____.”
14. Domination and control.
15. Withdrawal of affection.
16. Guilt trips.
17. Making everything your fault.
18. Isolating you from friends and family.
19. Using money to control.
20. Constant calling or texting when you are not with him/her.
21. Threatening to commit suicide if you leave.


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
Will Bamber’s supporters back these claims?

Rhona Friedman was introduced to the case by the late investigative journalist Bob Woffinden who was convinced of the couple’s innocence. The journalist co-wrote a book on the case Bad Show: the Quiz, the Cough and the Millionaire Major which inspired a stage-play.

Theatregoers were given the opportunity to take the place of the jury via electronic voting. Overwhelmingly audiences found in favour of the couple; although not Chris Tarrant who, although he told the court he had no suspicions on the night, only last weekend wrote a piece for the Daily Mail saying Ingram was guilty. It is not known how the trial judge, Judge Geoffrey Rivlin QC, who also saw the production, voted.

“At the trial at Southwark Crown Court in 2003, Rivlin told the jury that when Ingram was ‘either a genuine millionaire or a fraudster’. After deliberating for nearly 14 hours, they opted for the latter and the Ingrams received an 18 month prison sentence suspended for two years and Whittock received 12 months.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/appeal-planned-in-coughing-major-case/

Latest by David Rose for Daily Mail with the header

’We have new evidence that can prove our innocence: Who Wants To Be A Millionaire 'Coughing Major' Charles Ingram believes analysis of audio tapes - and a world expert on coughing - will clear his name’
Prof Morice told The Mail on Sunday that the new evidence may create 'reasonable doubt'. It is now likely to become part of a dossier which Ingram's solicitor, Rhona Friedman, intends to submit to the Court of Appeal later this year’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8257267/amp/Lawyer-Coughing-Major-says-high-tech-audio-analysis-prove-innocent.html?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 26, 2020, 02:46:57 PM
Oh the irony... JB winning a third appeal and having to go straight into Lockdown   8)><( @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 26, 2020, 02:47:51 PM
Oh the irony... JB winning a third appeal and having to go straight into Lockdown   8)><( @)(++(*

Then he woke up and found he was still in lock-up  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 05:22:26 PM
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

Julie Mugford stated,

I’d been unable to make love to him or respond to him in anyway.
But sleep that night was impossible. Suddenly I heard his voice in the darkness: “Julie, I really do you love you, you know. And I’m so terribly sorry.”
Looking back now, I think that was the only nice thing Jeremy said to me during the whole terrible business”

(Source: News of the World )

How he must hate being caged.
“He has a bluebird tattooed on his arm.
“He used to tell me, “It’s my bird of freedom. You know, don’t you, that I’m a free spirit.”

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 07:12:15 PM
“11 OCT 2016 — Important update from Jeremy Bamber Campaigner Trudi Benjamin on why #BamberAid is so important along with this petition:

On Saturday, my Campaign colleague Yvonne and I traveled to Liverpool for the United Against Injustice (UAI) conference. It was a jam-packed day of workshops and guest speakers, including our Patrons Michelle Diskin-Bates and Michael O’Brien.

We came away inspired and invigorated in our continued fight for justice for Jeremy.

At the UAI conference it became clear that it is very hard for those maintaining innocence to find evidence to help them owing to non-disclosure, and when they do get the opportunity to use evidence they need money to help them pay for forensic work because there is no legal aid.

Remember that the prosecution legal and forensics teams are paid 'top dollar' by the Crown Prosecution Service to ensure the scales of justice are tipped heavily towards the prosecution. Those charged or trying to overturn a conviction often rely on self-representation (litigant in person), pro-bono work of lawyers and at cost work from forensic companies.

Free expertise is increasingly hard to find - for example: Can you afford to work for free? Some forensic scientists have offered us a compromise, which is work carried out at cost.

We need your help to redress this balance and remember the following points when considering a donation:

- To make our total of £4,000, £131 per day is now needed. That doesn’t sound like much and very easy to do if two or three people or more are donating each day.

- To get the report written on the windows we need to raise this money urgently as we do not have enough for the report yet! We have been offered this work at cost and forensic scientists have given us an allotted time in which to do it. If we don’t raise the money for this slot we will might have to pay full price or wait another 6 months for a time when they can do it around their other work and commitments.

- Jeremy needs the windows report to go into submissions to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) in the New Year so the work has to be done now!

- We also need to commission reports on several more vital forensic issues by the New Year.

As I have stated previously, we are determined to leave no stone unturned and no avenue unexplored in our quest to get Jeremy’s conviction over turned. The strong message that I took away from the conference, was that we all need to work together to ensure that miscarriages of justice are over turned in a timely manner.
https://www.change.org/p/priti-patel-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-to-jeremybamber-s-legal-defence-team/u/18112706


When will Trudi Benjamin recognise Bamber’s been committing innocence fraud ever since he murdered his family ?!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 26, 2020, 10:08:36 PM
And Julie maintains her stand today.

Julie can't really do anything else. After all these years, she can hardly say her statement was not the whole truth. She would be in a LOT of trouble.

But then again, perhaps she did tell the whole truth.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 10:39:21 PM
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?

Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

Anji Greaves apparently started seeing Bamber 2 days after the funerals - so that”s 18th Aug 1985

She told the Sun ‘he called on her at her Kensington flat’

She stated,

We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm round me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished. He said he really wanted to get married.. ” 29th Oct 1986

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10683033/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-sheila-caffell/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 26, 2020, 10:51:40 PM
Anji Greaves apparently started seeing Bamber 2 days after the funerals - so that”s 18th Aug 1985

She told the Sun he went round to her Kensington flat

She stated,

We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm round me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished ”


You can see why the defence didn't call these women as witnesses - Arlidge would have had a field day in cross exam, exposing more of Bambers dishonest nature and habit of treating people like objects, discarding them when they are no longer useful.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 10:59:42 PM
You can see why the defence didn't call these women as witnesses - Arlidge would have had a field day in cross exam, exposing more of Bambers dishonest nature and habit of treating people like objects, discarding them when they are no longer useful.

She even dressed in small lacy tops and briefs to please him before they made love”

Anji claimed to be ”an old friend of Bamber’s though not an old lover”

When and where did they meet and how does her sister Virginia come into the equation ?

Am still not convinced it was Virginia who phoned Bamber at SC flat
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 11:17:01 PM
Who was the ‘close friend’ that claimed to the Suns Kieron Saunders, the day after the Murders (8th Aug 1985), SC ’had been taking methadone, a heroin substitute’?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7143593/jeremy-bamber/

Bamber !?!

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:19:58 AM

Can you provide evidence of what you are saying? You have no idea of the men and women who are friendly with Jeremy for various reasons. It is wrong of you to make assumptions and post as fact. One female who is extremely close to Jeremy is the film maker Emilia di Girolamo. She visits him regularly. She is neither old, frumpy or lacking a man in her life and is an intelligent professional lady. There are many others like her and also intelligent men who are his friends. None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth. I wonder whether the extreme hatred you spout out is because you have something lacking in YOUR life!  The truth will come out eventually when all undisclosed documents are released.


Daisy,

I have seen many of Jeremy’s supporters on Twitter; not just the rubbish they spout and how unintelligent they come across, but also their pictures —  and videos too. And yes, they are as I described.

You, Daisy, you’re in your 70s, and yet Jeremy abused you to your FACE and spat “I never liked you anyway!”  And here you are sticking up for him! He abused you when you refused to take a loan out for him, and I actually felt sorry for you..but now you’ve “turned” I can only think you’re not in your right mind.

I don’t believe for a moment that Jeremy has normal friends; influential friends; respectable friends. He lies to everyone, and makes up fairy stories to try and impress. He’s bamboozled you, despite having abused you...so what’s YOUR problem?

It’s laughable for you to say nine of us know if he’s a murderer: Daisy, dear, he was found GUILTY of mass murder 35 years ago. Does that not register with you? All, and I mean ALL his supporters (you included) harp on about these mysterious “undisclosed documents”, and the reason for that is none of has ONE shred of evidence to even suggest he couldn’t have murdered his family. So you’ve created a fairytale that doesn’t exist. A giant figment of all your imaginations, started by him. If there were “undisclosed documents” Jeremy Bamber wouldn’t even KNOW about them. He’s made this up as a last resort. He knows the police can’t produce any, because they don’t exist. And you gullible lot BELIEVE his BS.

Tell me, WHAT actually could these documents show? Because everyone knows what happened that night; everyone knows the police went to WHF. Over 50 police officers witnessed events, so what do you suppose they’re all hiding?😳

You’re correct about one thing, though: Jeremy Bamber does indeed know what happened in the early hours when he murdered them all and fired bullets into those two little boys faces and heads.  He just won’t admit it, that’s all.

Too right he’s hated, not just by me, but everyone who knows what he did. The inmates hate him too; that’s why he was attacked. For you to suggest I have something lacking because I find a mass murderer evil, vile and sickening shows how warped you must be. I certainly am not lacking, on any level, quite the opposite in fact — but if I was lacking in any way I wouldn’t dedicate my time to a twisted psychopath who’s killed five members of his family and will spend the rest of his days locked in a jail — I’d improve my life and mix with normal people, not jailbirds who wanted to use me and try and grab money off me.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:22:34 AM
You said Mark Cropper ‘did a disappearing act’ ?

Did Sarah Hanover disappear with him?


Isn’t it strange how Jem’s campaign team has such a fast turnover...

Proof that even the deluded can come to their senses😌
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:26:26 AM
It's always a source of puzzlement when you perceive someone is obviously deluded and hold bizarre opinions, grasping the totally wrong end of the stick.

Oh, the irony...and you’re too daft to even see it  ^*&&

Apologies if I hit a nerve, General...I hope you’re feeling better
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:34:28 AM
Found this

Monday, 24 January 2011
"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.

I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.

I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.

My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.

Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html


He omitted something there:

“Had I not been imprisoned”

He forgot to add “Had I not been imprisoned for shooting dead my mother, father, sister and two six-year-old nephews”

Tut-tut.

Still not meticulous I see.


Meanwhile, nine years later... 8)--))


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:39:51 AM
Hi Caroline  my post was a response to Ispy who said that all women who support Jeremy are desperate sad individuals. I was just demonstrating that this isn’t true. By the way Ispy obviously includes you as one of those people. How does that make you feel as you used to support Jeremy? I am still waiting for evidence to back up those sweeping statements. If we don’t stop wild assumptions being presented as facts then we lose track of the actual facts.


Excuse me???!!!!!

What the hell are you talking about?!!!

I have NEVER been a supporter of that evil murderer!!!

You must be ill if you think that!

How dare you suggest such a thing!


I’m inclined to reveal who I am, and you’d be shocked, I can tell you.

I’m the polar opposite of that sick twisted bunch of matronly dears, and I’m no pushover, either!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:48:14 AM
Well, I don't share Spy's view on that - which I am sure you realise. I have been called desperate and sad as someone who now thinks he's guilty so you can't win. I've never been call sad or desparate by anyone who actually knows me - bloody minded maybe but never sad or desparate  @)(++(* - Anyway, hope you're keeping well  ?{)(**


Caroline, I’ve never called you sad or desperate, and you know that.

But don’t tell me you don’t think the majority of his few supporters are just that, because I’ve seen them, read whatever written, seen their videos...and they all come across as desperate, lacking, gullible, unintelligent, deluded and unattractive. That may sound harsh but it’s a fact.

It isn’t just me who can see that, either....look at how The Sun ridicules them.

Look at how they were annihilated on Twitter before scurrying off and hiding...they're an embarrassment. And let’s face it, what sort of woman would be drawn to a mass murderer who’s serving Life in prison? They hardly have normal expectations for the future...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:56:02 AM
And the Home Secretary would have access to ALL of Bamber’s reports - including the ones he doesn’t want his campaigners & supporters to see


Well, it would be interesting to see what he’s hiding, eh?

If they’re glowing reports he’d be showing them everywhere wouldn’t he?

Perhaps his team can encourage him to publish them

It will help his case, surely?😌
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:59:38 AM
The following was ‘Originally published in the Guardian on 29 October 1986

“Jeremy Bamber, the farmer's son who boasted that he could commit the perfect crime, was gaoled for 25 years yesterday after he was found guilty of murdering five members of his family.

Bamber, aged 25, shot and killed his adoptive parents, Neville and June Bamber, both aged 61, his sister, Sheila Caffell, aged 27, and her six-year-old twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas, at their farmhouse in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex, in August last year in the hope of becoming the sole beneficiary of the family's £436,000 estate.

Bamber staged the massacre in such a way as to raise suspicions that his 27-year-old mentally ill sister had carried out the killings and then turned the gun on herself.

However, after considering the evidence for 9 ½ hours, the jury of seven men and five women at Chelmsford crown court brought in 10-2 majority verdicts against him yesterday on all five counts of murder.

Bamber, who had denied the charges and who had remained impassive throughout the 18-day trial.

Sentencing him, Mr Justice Drake told Bamber that his conduct in planning and carrying out the killing of five members of his family was "evil almost beyond belief".

"It shows that you, young man though you are, have a warped, callous and evil mind concealed behind an outwardly presentable, civilised manner."

The judge said that Bamber's action in killing his mother, father and sister had been dreadful enough. But he went on: "You fired shot after shot into them and also into the two little boys aged six who you murdered in cold blood while they were asleep in their beds.

"I believe that you did so partly out of greed because, although you were a well-off young man for your age, you were impatient for more money.

"You wanted to be master of your own life and to enjoy an inheritance much of which would have come to you anyway in the fullness of time."

In recommending that Bamber serve a minimum of 25 years in prison, Mr Justice Drake said he had to consider when it would be safe to release into society a person who had planned and killed five members of his family.

The police initially believed that Sheila Caffell had indeed carried out the killings and then committed suicide. Before carrying out the murders, Bamber told his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, that he had devised "the perfect murder" in which his sister would be the scapegoat.

A month after the killings, Miss Mugford went to the police and told them that Bamber had confessed to her he was responsible.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/oct/29/archive-essex-family-murders-trial-1986


Bump
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 04:07:25 AM

Aunt Agatha why didn’t Bamber ever tell Brett Collins what he’s told you and others?



”But Brett today demolishes the idea that Bamber can prove he has an alibi which means he could not have been responsible for the massacre.

He insisted:

“He didn’t ever bring up someone being inside or being seen at the window when the police were there with him to me. It’s just bulls**t
.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285



Bumping this up

Sorry, I missed all these posts over the weekend, and some are too good not to bring up, Nicholas

I’ve also replied to Daisy, who I was kind to when I saw her first post where she said how vile JB had been to her, and now I’ve seen she’s accused ME of once being a supporter of his!! Jesus, I’d rather be riddled with Covid-19 than be anywhere NEAR that repugnant pulsating lump of moving evil.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 04:31:01 AM
He didn't bring it up in any of his witness statements either, nor did he mention it when he was arrested - "You can't be serious, all three of us saw someone moving in the house, that's why we ran away"

He only mentioned it at the trial when he became desperate. It was either Rivlin or Lawson that suggested the phrase "a trick of the light" to PC Bews in cross exam. JB is still furious about it.

The CT and supporters still claim that they all saw "a figure" but all PC Myall saw was possible "movement" out the corner of his eye which they quickly dismissed.

The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?



Excellent point, CS.


Yes, WHY didn’t JB say to the police “What are you talking about?! We all saw Sheila walking inside!”

The reason he didn’t was that the officers who were there that night were LOOKING for movement, and in the moonlight, with a breeze blowing trees etc, shadows come and go, so when a shadow DID blow by they got jumpy, but just as quickly dismissed it as a trick of the light.

In fact, it was Jeremy himself who first started that trick. When the police were speaking to him with their backs to the the house, he said “Quick! I can see a movement!” He deliberately did that to make their imaginations race...its an old trick.

We all know Sheila was already dead at that time, as of course Jeremy did too.

Had he not known, his natural immediate reaction would have been to shout out “Sheila! What’s wrong!! What’s happening?!”

Why did he not ONCE call out to her? Try to appeal to her? Try to calm her down like he claimed Nevill wanted?

The most natural thing in the world if you’re in fear for your family’s safety is to try to calm them down; speak to them; try to diffuse the situation...

If someone is threatening to jump off a building you don’t have police and family members just staring up at them. In fact, the police bring in a close family member to try to talk them down. So why didn’t Jeremy try to appeal to Sheila?

It’s so obvious why....he knew she was dead, and the police didn’t ask him to talk to her because they never saw her moving about inside.

Sorry I’ve hijacked your post, CS...but in answer your question about his CT, I think some are just desperate deluded women, some are ex-cons who think they might get bunged some cash, and some are creaming off the cash he cons out of fools. They’re all a bunch of lowlifes in different forms. s..m attracts s..m.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 04:33:59 AM
What's your definition of 'supporter'?

I believe JB to be at the very least a MoJ and in all probability innocent but to start beating the drum about the so-called 'trick of the light' as an alibi some 34 years later doesn't help his case at all.  Hence he was called out on it by BC.

If PS Bews, PC Myall or JB thought the 'trick of the light' was someone moving around inside then how come this isn't mentioned in their wit stats?  None of the officers who arrived later mention it either.


What are you on about?

The police dismissed it as a trick of the light in 1985!

It’s in their reports...read them.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 04:46:39 AM
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.

I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!

JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.


I agree with most of your posts, CS, but with respect you are very new here and haven’t had time to read much of Holly’s arguments.

I too first thought she was fairly intelligent, but then I quickly realised she knows far less than she pretends; she copies much of what she writes; she isn’t as knowledgeable as she likes to pretend; she exaggerates, gets things wrong, deliberately tries to confuse; and when she’s stumped for an answer to an awkward question she hides...sorry, but those aren’t the actions of someone who’s intelligent and quick off the mark. I’ve seen her arguments torn to shreds by truly intelligent, learned members...and she slinks away quietly, stumped for words.

She’s obsessed with JB, and since I caught her out replying under the username, General, which she blatantly denied doing despite it obviously being written by her, I simply don’t believe half of what she says.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 04:52:53 AM
Thank you. 

Yes if I was part of the CT I would want everything done very differently.  I immediately came to loggerheads with a senior member over the graveside reading and decided I could not and would not become part of it.


But Holly, you said you haven’t heard from JB for two years

That disgraceful reading by Trudie Benjamin at the graveside of the Bambers’ was done recently: so how could that have made you have decide not to become part of the CT when you’ve had zero contact with Jeremy Bamber for over TWO years?

That doesn’t add up, does it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 05:01:48 AM
No idea but if his you would hope they would talk him out of it.

But Holly, you said further up:



“Yes if I was part of the CT I would want everything done very differently.  I immediately came to loggerheads with a senior member over the graveside reading and decided I could not and would not become part of it.”


So which of those quotes are the truth?


If you immediately came to loggerheads with a senior member over the graveside reading, surely they’d have discussed with you whether it was his idea or theirs...you’d have known whose idea it was, Holly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 05:06:08 AM
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.

I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!

JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.

CS,

I think you meant to write “IFthis MOJ is overturned “

Not “WHEN”

You’re sounding like you think it will be...I can assure you it won’t ever be overturned.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 05:18:33 AM
Indeed, what I meant regarding the CT need for control was really a transparent need to be JBs favourite which would give them motive to oust any competition for that position.


Hahaha!

And I get jumped on for calling this sad bunch desperate! &%54%

Blow me, vying to be the favourite of a club devoted to a 60-year-old psychopathic mass murderer...bet they don’t put that on their CV🤣



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 05:37:00 AM
I have the same opinion of the Bamberettes as you call them although I refer to them more unkindly as mind controlled cult members, but it's important to delineate the CT from those that mindlessly repeat their nonsense.

The CT itself is something of an enigma, are they serious in their beliefs or do they deliberately spread long debunked misinformation because they know it will attract unquestioning new recruits?

Can you imagine them working for years, baking cakes and spouting lies about CAL and then allowing someone intelligent such as Holly to come along and crack the case? ( assuming the case can be cracked )



Holly’s been trying to crack it since 2014 (maybe longer) and still hasn’t even made a dent...


But there’s no dent to make as he’s guilty as sin. His psychiatrist said that when he was on remand and diagnosed him as a psychopath
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 05:50:51 AM
Sister rivalry?   Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.


The whole lot of them sound like a disgusting bunch of vultures


Poor Sheila dead in the ground, and the two sisters — one wanting to move in on her flat — and the other one, thinking she’s got a catch now he’s come into money

Wonder what happened to those two?

I saw one photo of Angie walking along and she looked hard as nails...

How old would they be now? Pushing 60 or even 70....I think they were a good few years older than him.

Strange how he fancied slightly older women....

And young men too...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 06:01:52 AM
How much do you think the SB is worth now?

Yes have seen their BS on the cab rank rule too - ‘In practice, the rule has been watered down since its inception’  *&^^& ergo it’s a fallacy

The fundamental principle that a barrister, like a cabbie, has to take the first “fare” that arrives. The obvious rationale being to ensure that no-one simply cherrypicks the plum cases (to mangle a fruit metaphor), and to maintain the cherished independence of the bar.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/glossary/


That isn’t correct, Nicholas — that info you’ve got is wrong.

Barristers certainly can and do indeed refuse to represent people; they’ll often give an excuse as to why, but they do. I know that for a fact.

I also know that no highly regarded barrister would touch JB’s case with a barge pole. Never.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 07:03:07 AM
Lots of good questions Nicholas,

What happened for BC to resurface and turn on his old mate apart from another 2 minutes of fame and a modest cheque from a journalist?

The subject we all want him to shed light on is the attempt to sell Sheila's dignity to the NOTW and his part in it.

Was BC more involved or suspicious than he is prepared to let on?



I read that Brett Collins ceased contact with JB when he was convicted


I don’t see him as “turning on his old mate” — he admitted he had doubts at the very beginning, but said he didn’t/couldn’t believe JB had murdered them as he didn’t want to think it was true. Once the truth came out after he was found guilty that was the end as far as Brett was concerned. But we only have his word for that: he’s hardly going to admit he knew Jeremy planned to kill them.

Incidentally, he didn’t approach the press for “fame” — it’s hardly fame being associated with a mass murderer. The press approached him, and he obliged. Obviously, money would have been an incentive, but as it was so long after the murders he wouldn’t have been paid much — Jeremy was old news even THEN.

I don’t know if  Brett was involved or knew more than he let on, though I don’t think the Greaves sisters did. Goodness, if Jeremy ran around telling all and sundry what he’d done, he’d have been insane. However, I certainly think Brett is an extremely unpalatable man. To go into WHF snooping around, arranging auctioneers to buy antiques, driving Nevill’s car, wearing one of Nevill’s dressing gowns, taking charge at the funeral, organising things that had nothing to do with him...and that’s without the trip to Amsterdam, holiday to St Tropez...he certainly enjoyed his share of the pickings.

Sleeping in Sheila’s flat, laying on one of the twins beds...then the NOTW photos of Sheila  he tried to hawk with Jeremy...he’s a pig of a man and a disgrace.  He certainly didn’t seem disturbed by Jeremy’s behaviour after the murders, when everyone else was...

This is just a hunch, and may just be coincidental. But Brett went to Greece when Jeremy murdered everyone, and whilst some may say that was fortunate for him, something about it makes me feel uneasy. It was kind of “too convenient “. But that could just be me...

I know when antipodeans travel to Europe they often fly direct to London as a base, and especially if they have family here, and then they do Europe travelling from country to country. They rarely come to London, stay just a few weeks, then jet off to Greece. They “do” Europe by starting off at, say, Paris and work their way east seeing as many places as possible, until returning to London. It costs far less money as they’re not backtracking and they see much more too.

I just wonder if Brett gave Jeremy some kind of advice? He did go to WHF and meet the family, so he knew the layout etc..

Something,..just something...flags up to me.

He claims he saw the WHF headlines in a newspaper when he was strolling along some shops in Greece, and as you know, the newspapers arrived one day later back then. I’m not sure when he phoned Jeremy after reading it, but something doesn’t feel right to me. Few young men are interested in reading foreign newspapers when they’re on holiday (he’s a Kiwi, remember) and shops abroad usually stack just a few (comparatively) all folded over hiding the headlines. I just think something’s fishy...but I could be wrong.

I strongly suspect he and Jeremy planned to move to Australia together...and when Brett knew Jeremy would most likely be found guilty he cleared off and got away. If he was involved we’ll never know...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 07:27:52 AM
Julie can't really do anything else. After all these years, she can hardly say her statement was not the whole truth. She would be in a LOT of trouble.

But then again, perhaps she did tell the whole truth.


Well, when Julie was cross-examined in the first court case, about a YEAR after making many, many statements — she never deviated ONCE from what she’d already told the police. Remember, she was cross-examined by the one of the top QC’s in the UK, who are trained to trip people up. And Julie was naive too...so she was at a disadvantage. Yet the defence  never once caught her out in a lie.

Fast forward 16 years later to 2002 and Julie Mugford flew from Canada to give evidence again at the Court of Appeal. She certainly had no qualms in doing so. In the event she wasn’t called, but I guarantee she’d still remember every evil detail of what he did. How can you forget a thing like that?!

It will never get to court again, I know that, I really do. But IF it could get appeal again Julie would once again be called, and she’d come over and tell the Court exactly what she told them in 1986.

But seriously, it’s silly to even consider. As far as the CPS and Courts are concerned they’re sick to the back teeth of his failed attempts at making up weak stories to try and wriggle out of jail. It will never happen. And that’s a fact.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 27, 2020, 07:44:05 AM
Anji Greaves apparently started seeing Bamber 2 days after the funerals - so that”s 18th Aug 1985

She told the Sun ‘he called on her at her Kensington flat’

She stated,

We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm round me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished. He said he really wanted to get married.. ” 29th Oct 1986

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10683033/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-sheila-caffell/


If he started "seeing" her two days after the funerals, by turning up at her flat, it's fairly certain that he must have already known her.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 09:10:20 AM

If he started "seeing" her two days after the funerals, by turning up at her flat, it's fairly certain that he must have already known her.

The CT team used the word ‘seeing’ April as in, ‘another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves’ - it’s confusing  *&^^&

“Wednesday 4 September 1985 – Jeremy took Julie to a café close to Sheila’s apartment shortly before 4pm and gave her a cheque for £400 to pay for a holiday with Liz Rimmington[6]. He then discussed their relationship, and after his arrest Julie banked this cheque along with another from Jeremy. On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves. In fury, Julie ran into the bedroom, picked up a wooden Chinese trick box that belonged to Jeremy and threw it into a mirror, smashing it into pieces. Brett Collins also witnessed this from the next room in the apartment.
[/i]
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness

And this 7th Jan 2020 article appears to have mistakenly posted a photo of Anji Greaves

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10115673/who-was-sheila-caffell-mental-health-children/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 09:16:44 AM
The CT team used the word ‘seeing’ April as in

This 7th Jan 2020 article appears to have mistakenly posted a photo of Anji Greaves ?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10115673/who-was-sheila-caffell-mental-health-children/


I’m not sure what you’re getting at — are you suggesting Angi is April or Aunt Agatha?

Jesus...Im losing the plot! 8()-000( ^*&& $6(&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 09:39:51 AM


Holly’s been trying to crack it since 2014 (maybe longer) and still hasn’t even made a dent...


But there’s no dent to make as he’s guilty as sin. His psychiatrist said that when he was on remand and diagnosed him as a psychopath

As much as I disagree with her conclusions, Holly does at least approach the case from a serious angle and is prepared to argue her version of events, unlike the CT who are just plain mad and operating a cult.  I respect Holly for that.

I share her disdain for Bambers poor understanding of his own case and the CT whose various members have allowed him to not just muddy his own waters but take a great big steaming dump in them.

From what I can gather, what she is trying to do is undermine the blood/silencer evidence which, if it's possible, would be enough on it's own to render the conviction unsafe and the CoA would order a retrial. This is basically trying to overturn the conviction on a technicality and goes nowhere near proving him innocent which IMO, can't be done. There is too much evidence against him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
This is what he appears to have written to CAL

“Jeremy states that after he was led down to his cell for the night , DCI Taff Jones paid him a visit:

He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”

(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

This is yet more of Bamber’s BS - bet this conversation with Taff Jones never even took place

He started ‘seeing’ Anji 2 days after the funerals so what would he be going to see JM about?

Plus he’d told Anji he’d “been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her it was finished

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 27, 2020, 09:45:21 AM
The CT team used the word ‘seeing’ April as in, ‘another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves’ - it’s confusing  *&^^&

And this 7th Jan 2020 article appears to have mistakenly posted a photo of Anji Greaves

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10115673/who-was-sheila-caffell-mental-health-children/


Do you think "seeing" is a modest translation of s----ing?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 09:46:03 AM

Do you think "seeing" is a modest translation of s----ing?

You’ll need to fill in the blanks for me April
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 09:46:44 AM
Oh, Bamber was a charmer alright!  Rumpy-pumpie in the sky with a total stranger and poor Anji Greaves inconsolable when she learned he'd been convicted...

From "The Murders at White House Farm" by Carol Ann Lee...

Anji Greaves had waited for the verdict in a hotel not far from Chelmsford with two friends and a journalist. Her room was decorated with ‘Welcome Home, Jeremy!’ banners, and she wore her glitziest outfit, with a bag packed; the journalist intended to write Jeremy’s story when he was acquitted and then hustle the couple off on holiday. But when the television news delivered the outcome, Anji walked out in a daze, narrowly avoiding being run over. She told the journalist: ‘I feel so much loyalty for Jeremy but I do not know if I can bring myself to go on visiting now. It could be a life sentence for both of us.’

Is this letter to Aunt Agatha or Anji ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 09:51:17 AM
CS,

I think you meant to write “IFthis MOJ is overturned “

Not “WHEN”

You’re sounding like you think it will be...I can assure you it won’t ever be overturned.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well to the written word. I was channelling the mind of a Bamberette, some of whom really are convinced that the authorities all "know" he is innocent and once they expose the biggest, most complex conspiracy in history, millions of people will take to the streets and "they" will have no choice but to free him

The only way the conviction will be overturned is on a technicality and I would say the chances of that are nil if the latest conspiracy fantasies are the best he can do.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
Sarcasm doesn't translate well to the written word. I was channelling the mind of a Bamberette, some of whom really are convinced that the authorities all "know" he is innocent and once they expose the biggest, most complex conspiracy in history, millions of people will take to the streets and "they" will have no choice but to free him

The only way the conviction will be overturned is on a technicality and I would say the chances of that are nil if the latest conspiracy fantasies are the best he can do.

The conviction will not be overturned on a technicality but on a mountain of fresh forensic evidence.

JB's MoJ is no different from other high profile and long running MOJ's all of which contain similar features.

JB's case has dragged on for longer because unlike other MOJ's who benefitted from continuous and reliable support from family members, JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 10:32:13 AM
The conviction will not be overturned on a technicality but on a mountain of fresh forensic evidence.

JB's MoJ is no different from other high profile and long running MOJ's all of which contain similar features.

JB's case has dragged on for longer because unlike other MOJ's who benefitted from continuous and reliable support from family members, JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.

I admire your confidence Holly but I can't even see a molehill of fresh evidence ever being built, never mind the mountain required.

The case is not comparable to other (actual) MOJs at all. There has never been a case in history where the police knew the perp but decided to expose their own incompetence and fit up a completely innocent man instead.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 27, 2020, 10:38:27 AM
The conviction will not be overturned on a technicality but on a mountain of fresh forensic evidence.

JB's MoJ is no different from other high profile and long running MOJ's all of which contain similar features.

JB's case has dragged on for longer because unlike other MOJ's who benefitted from continuous and reliable support from family members, JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.

Rightly or wrongly, however one looks at it, family support is something that (IMO), Jeremy is never going to have. I cant comment on the "supporters" to which you refer, as I know little about them. This, I know, is off topic, but there is an American case with a number of similarities, that of Dr Jeffrey MacDonald. He has done even more years than Jeremy.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 10:51:27 AM
Rightly or wrongly, however one looks at it, family support is something that (IMO), Jeremy is never going to have. I cant comment on the "supporters" to which you refer, as I know little about them. This, I know, is off topic, but there is an American case with a number of similarities, that of Dr Jeffrey MacDonald. He has done even more years than Jeremy.

The supporters referred to are those that seem to think the CT has some credibility and repeat their call log conspiracy rubbish. 

The MacDonald case is very similar in that it polarises people. The confessions and recanted confessions of the girl in the floppy hat give his supporters some basis for believing he is innocent, but the forensic evidence, with the holes in the fabric matching his wifes stab wounds and his lack of grief after his wife and children were supposedly murdered give the guilters a strong case.
[ I should warn anyone that googles the case that there are grisly CS photos, including some of the children]
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.

What separates you from them Holly?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
I admire your confidence Holly but I can't even see a molehill of fresh evidence ever being built, never mind the mountain required.

The case is not comparable to other (actual) MOJs at all. There has never been a case in history where the police knew the perp but decided to expose their own incompetence and fit up a completely innocent man instead.

I don't think the police did know the perp. It is the only peacetime mass shooting unwitnessed by independent alive others.  The mistake everyone made imo was not getting experts in from outside UK who deal with gun crime and mass shootings routinely.

When UK Gov opened investigation into Bloody Sunday it instructed Dr Vincent Di Maio who is a US based  internationally renowned expert in the pathology of gunshot wounds.  Why did UK Gov look to US and not instruct the likes of UK based Malcolm Fletcher?

Dr Vincent Di Maio was involved in the JFK reconstruction I uploaded and I've relied heavily on his forensic textbook for my research into JB's case:

https://books.google.com/books/about/Gunshot_Wounds.html?id=VbrDbbHAflsC
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 12:29:45 PM
I don't think the police did know the perp. It is the only peacetime mass shooting unwitnessed by independent alive others.  The mistake everyone made imo was not getting experts in from outside UK who deal with gun crime and mass shootings routinely.

When UK Gov opened investigation into Bloody Sunday it instructed Dr Vincent Di Maio who is a US based  internationally renowned expert in the pathology of gunshot wounds.  Why did UK Gov look to US and not instruct the likes of UK based Malcolm Fletcher?

Dr Vincent Di Maio was involved in the JFK reconstruction I uploaded and I've relied heavily on his forensic textbook for my research into JB's case:

https://books.google.com/books/about/Gunshot_Wounds.html?id=VbrDbbHAflsC

We can all agree that the investigation was a complete shambles from the beginning but the inquest recorded it as murder-suicide and Taff was convinced that it was.  No one (except the relatives) would have batted an eyelid if JB had inherited the lot and sailed off to quickly spend it all on cocaine and Bollinger and neither would there have been two inquiries into the EP that they invited on themselves by changing course and exposing their own bungling but the fact is, they were lead eventually by the evidence. 

If they had treated JB as a possible suspect from the beginning as they would today, the case would have long faded in the memory.

I can't agree that MF was not up to the job, he had 13 years experience and could draw on any other published expert opinion to back up his own. He was honest enough to say that the phenomenon of back spatter was not fully understood at that time - he didn't mean not fully understood by just himself but by anyone in the field at that time.  Do you really think he went to the Old Bailey armed with only his own opinion and hunches  ( and not just on the back spatter) ?

I'll have a look at Dr Di Maio in a bit but I can't see how a JFK style reconstruction would have helped,  we know roughly where the killer was in WHF as evidenced by the casings etc, it tells us nothing about who the killer was, just as if there had been two people in the book depository in Dallas, all we would know is roughly where the bullets came from.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 01:09:24 PM
As much as I disagree with her conclusions, Holly does at least approach the case from a serious angle and is prepared to argue her version of events, unlike the CT who are just plain mad and operating a cult.  I respect Holly for that.

I share her disdain for Bambers poor understanding of his own case and the CT whose various members have allowed him to not just muddy his own waters but take a great big steaming dump in them.

From what I can gather, what she is trying to do is undermine the blood/silencer evidence which, if it's possible, would be enough on it's own to render the conviction unsafe and the CoA would order a retrial. This is basically trying to overturn the conviction on a technicality and goes nowhere near proving him innocent which IMO, can't be done. There is too much evidence against him.


CS, there was more than enough overwhelming evidence against JB without the silencer.  Jeremy’s QC, who was one of the top in the UK, was unable to explain how Sheila’s blood came to be in the silencer. Blood spatter gives distinct patterns, and as no-one knew Sheila’s blood group; no-one knew her blood was even inside the silencer until forensics examined it microscopically; no-one knew the pattern back spatter makes; no-one knew how to make that same pattern even if they did know the pattern; then how could Sheila’s blood have ended up in a dried flake on the eighth baffle?

Taking it a step further, how could anyone have got a sample of Sheila’s wet blood when she’d been dead for weeks? We’ve established it couldn’t have been menstrual blood, so explain how Sheila’s blood was found in a dried flake on the eight baffle when the forensic scientists took it apart?

One needs solid evidence from forensic experts to put forward a case that proves the original findings were wrong, and as it stands there’s nothing at all that suggests otherwise. Holly obviously has her reasons for being so eager to try and prove JB was innocent, and in some ways I admire her tenacity, but I’m sorry to say that I believe she has either been bamboozled by JB or she has some other motive. She isn’t an idiot, yet she accepts every word he says. How’s that? Nor do I believe for a second that Jeremy is some “slow” impressionable Twit who is being told what to say and do by his team. He’s been imprisoned for 35 years and has learned a heck of a lot in that time; that’s on top of him already having a sly, devious nature and being a manipulator. It’s himself who’s the architect of what’s happened — and he has to pay the price.

And just to reiterate what I said previously, even without the evidence of the silencer, all the overwhelming evidence from the witness, Julie, who told the court things about the murders only Jeremy could have known; the fact he lied repeatedly; the fact he knew how to break in and leave WHF house leaving it looking secure; the fact he lied about the phone calls and timings...proves without doubt that only he could have murdered his family.

Which makes trying to discredit the findings of the silencer a complete waste of time.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 01:18:37 PM

If he started "seeing" her two days after the funerals, by turning up at her flat, it's fairly certain that he must have already known her.


More than likely, April — he was promiscuous, after all...

But really, who cares? What does it matter? Yes, it proves he was a deceptive, cheating s..m ball, but everyone knows that, anyway

I doubt Julie ever lost many sleepless nights over it...and everyone from that era has moved on with their lives...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 01:24:15 PM
Sarcasm doesn't translate well to the written word. I was channelling the mind of a Bamberette, some of whom really are convinced that the authorities all "know" he is innocent and once they expose the biggest, most complex conspiracy in history, millions of people will take to the streets and "they" will have no choice but to free him

The only way the conviction will be overturned is on a technicality and I would say the chances of that are nil if the latest conspiracy fantasies are the best he can do.


His case is far too serious for him to be acquitted on a technicality

There’s stacks and stacks of evidence against him: one little technicality would be the equivalent of a pig’s burp — as his supporter, De’arth likes to quote 🐖🌬
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2020, 01:39:39 PM
As much as I disagree with her conclusions, Holly does at least approach the case from a serious angle and is prepared to argue her version of events, unlike the CT who are just plain mad and operating a cult.  I respect Holly for that.

I share her disdain for Bambers poor understanding of his own case and the CT whose various members have allowed him to not just muddy his own waters but take a great big steaming dump in them.

From what I can gather, what she is trying to do is undermine the blood/silencer evidence which, if it's possible, would be enough on it's own to render the conviction unsafe and the CoA would order a retrial. This is basically trying to overturn the conviction on a technicality and goes nowhere near proving him innocent which IMO, can't be done. There is too much evidence against him.

Undermining the blood/silencer evidence isn't a technicality.  It underpins the conviction.

I don't believe a retrial would be ordered. 

A reconstruction is important not just to support JB's case but from a VARK perspective too. 

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 27, 2020, 01:46:09 PM

His case is far too serious for him to be acquitted on a technicality

There’s stacks and stacks of evidence against him: one little technicality would be the equivalent of a pig’s burp — as his supporter, De’arth likes to quote 🐖🌬

We know the blood/silencer is the key evidence.  If it wasn't it wouldn't have been referred to Coa in 2002 on the back of this.

The case whole 2002 appeal is utter tosh.  Never mind third time lucky!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2020, 01:47:33 PM
Undermining the blood/silencer evidence isn't a technicality.  It underpins the conviction.

I don't believe a retrial would be ordered. 

A reconstruction is important not just to support JB's case but from a VARK perspective too.

Then you are completely wrong! I really hope that you are underway with all of this but I hope you haven't wasted too much money on. it. I can't see what is taking so long - it's been two years Holly and we have nothing but your claims to go on - not that I think you would be dishonest, David wasn't being dishonest in that he did have a report - it was no breakthrough though (as you know).
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2020, 01:48:20 PM
We know the blood/silencer is the key evidence.  If it wasn't it wouldn't have been referred to Coa in 2002 on the back of this.

The case whole 2002 appeal is utter tosh.  Never mind third time lucky!

So get on with it!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 02:55:00 PM
“He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”[/i]
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false

This is yet more of Bamber’s BS - bet this conversation with Taff Jones never even took place

He started ‘seeing’ Anji 2 days after the funerals so what would he be going to see JM about?

Plus he’d told Anji he’d “been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her it was finished

According to CAL’s book, Virginia Greaves witness statement is dated 12th September 1985 - did the police ever take a statement from Anji Greaves ?

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA453&lpg=PA453&dq=jeremy+bamber+virginia+greaves&source=bl&ots=jQHZR0FbA0&sig=ACfU3U0t2lPEsQhSp3hq2fbvUjZh6y2BPw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi75pDLrIfpAhUTV8AKHUTrA-84ChDoATAAegQIBhAB#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20virginia%20greaves&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
This is yet more of Bamber’s BS - bet this conversation with Taff Jones never even took place

He started ‘seeing’ Anji 2 days after the funerals so what would he be going to see JM about?

Plus he’d told Anji he’d “been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her it was finished

 Pathological liar

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 03:15:14 PM
Pathological liar

Tell tail sign of a coward, cheat, master manipulator & predator

To draw you closer, narcissists & psychopaths create an aura of desirability—of being wanted and courted by many. It will become a point of vanity for you to be the preferred object of their attention, to win them away from a crowd of admirers. They manufacture the illusion of popularity by surrounding themselves with members of the opposite sex: friends, former lovers, and your eventual replacement. Then, they create triangles that stimulate rivalry and raise their perceived value. (Adapted from “The Art of Seduction” by Robert Greene).

A note before I continue: people fall in and out of love. People find new love, before and after relationships come to an end. People cheat on one another. This section is not about these everyday occurrences—no matter how heartbreaking and unfair they might be. Instead, I will be describing a very specific set of patterns and behaviors that psychopaths utilize in order to torture and control their targets.


Psychopaths, like most predators, seek power and control.
https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/torture-by-triangulation.134/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 03:24:06 PM
The conviction will not be overturned on a technicality but on a mountain of fresh forensic evidence.

JB's MoJ is no different from other high profile and long running MOJ's all of which contain similar features.

JB's case has dragged on for longer because unlike other MOJ's who benefitted from continuous and reliable support from family members, JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.


Jeremy Bamber has no family because he killed them all



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
Tell tail sign of a coward, cheat, master manipulator & predator

To draw you closer, narcissists & psychopaths create an aura of desirability—of being wanted and courted by many. It will become a point of vanity for you to be the preferred object of their attention, to win them away from a crowd of admirers. They manufacture the illusion of popularity by surrounding themselves with members of the opposite sex: friends, former lovers, and your eventual replacement. Then, they create triangles that stimulate rivalry and raise their perceived value. (Adapted from “The Art of Seduction” by Robert Greene).

A note before I continue: people fall in and out of love. People find new love, before and after relationships come to an end. People cheat on one another. This section is not about these everyday occurrences—no matter how heartbreaking and unfair they might be. Instead, I will be describing a very specific set of patterns and behaviors that psychopaths utilize in order to torture and control their targets.


Psychopaths, like most predators, seek power and control.
https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/torture-by-triangulation.134/

Bamber’s control over his ‘targets’ is self evident
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 03:37:01 PM
Anji Greaves apparently started seeing Bamber 2 days after the funerals - so that”s 18th Aug 1985

She told the Sun ‘he called on her at her Kensington flat’

She stated,

We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm round me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished. He said he really wanted to get married.. ” 29th Oct 1986

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10683033/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-sheila-caffell/

Appears Bamber was by this point devaluing Anji Greaves

then the more destructive envy comes out and they start devaluing you. This is when the emotional abuse and “gaslighting” will start, where they slowly start to erode your sense of perception and reality.

https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/torture-by-triangulation.134/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 03:51:35 PM
Appears Bamber was by this point devaluing Anji Greaves

then the more destructive envy comes out and they start devaluing you. This is when the emotional abuse and “gaslighting” will start, where they slowly start to erode your sense of perception and reality.

And without doubt this is what happened to AG

They will start to chip away with comments to undermine you and will claim things happened or were said when they didn’t and vice versa. They are eroding your identity and self esteem and attempting to destroy the qualities in you that they realize they can’t have.

Their behaviour will become ever more outrageous as they continue to chip away at your boundaries psychologically and the final discard comes when they have completely worn down their target psychologically, at which point they get bored and move onto someone else.


And many others including AA
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 04:27:32 PM
Oh, the irony...and you’re too daft to even see it  ^*&&

Apologies if I hit a nerve, General...I hope you’re feeling better

So it appears is Mark Newby

Mark Newby said:

The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”

The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.

“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.

“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 27, 2020, 06:22:46 PM
So it appears is Mark Newby


Mark Newby said:

“The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”

“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.

“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.

“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”



Well, that’s promising...


Check the words:

SUGGESTS

SHOULD lead

PRETTY strong

We HOPE

We HOPE (2)

IF we do



He sounds very optimistic -— not  ?8)@)-)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2020, 06:36:34 PM

Mark Newby said:

“The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”

“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.

“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.

“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”



Well, that’s promising...


Check the words:

SUGGESTS

SHOULD lead

PRETTY strong

We HOPE

We HOPE (2)

IF we do



He sounds very optimistic -— not  ?8)@)-)

See the Supreme Court ruling on Bamber’s full life term re HOPE
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2020, 07:42:27 PM

Mark Newby said:

“The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”

“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.


Then why has Bamber changed his timings? A few years ago Jeremy was adamant that he called the police at 03:26, accusing West of altering the log from 03:26 to 03:36. I have the document that the CT formulated detaining how they believed West perjured himself over the logs. In their argument, EP were supposed to have changed the times to make it look as though Bamber had called Julie first and he was adamant he called police around 03:20 (at that point). Now he and they are arguing the that Bamber did indeed call West at 03:36 in order to bluff a call from Nevill. The CCRC aren't stupid!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 09:38:37 PM
Then why has Bamber changed his timings? A few years ago Jeremy was adamant that he called the police at 03:26, accusing West of altering the log from 03:26 to 03:36. I have the document that the CT formulated detaining how they believed West perjured himself over the logs. In their argument, EP were supposed to have changed the times to make it look as though Bamber had called Julie first and he was adamant he called police around 03:20 (at that point). Now he and they are arguing the that Bamber did indeed call West at 03:36 in order to bluff a call from Nevill. The CCRC aren't stupid!

Lomax has Bamber phoning West at "just before 3.20" - and he is his official biographer.

I think the further new evidence is a log from Witham timed at 3.37 stating Bamber is still on the phone to West.

The idiot admitted calling Julie first!

I always thought that there was simply a mistake on one of the logs and that the court made an assumption in Bambers favour after hearing from West, settling on 3.26 but perhaps it was later, meaning he faffed around even longer after his father called sounding "terrified"

Oh for and upgraded BT exchange and proper phone records!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2020, 10:08:28 PM
Lomax has Bamber phoning West at "just before 3.20" - and he is his official biographer.

I think the further new evidence is a log from Witham timed at 3.37 stating Bamber is still on the phone to West.

The idiot admitted calling Julie first!

I always thought that there was simply a mistake on one of the logs and that the court made an assumption in Bambers favour after hearing from West, settling on 3.26 but perhaps it was later, meaning he faffed around even longer after his father called sounding "terrified"

Oh for and upgraded BT exchange and proper phone records!

Exactly but now he is arguing that he called at 03:36. After he found out I had changed my mind about his innocence, he wrote to me asking why. One of the reasons was his changing of the timings - when I mentioned this to him, he wrote back saying he hadn't changed them at all (I guess he thinks we are idiots and can't read or that he is so clever, we might not notice  @)(++(*) - he followed the denial by telling me he had new logs, not the ones on the internet. I guess he forgot that he had previously sent me copies of the logs he had - they were the same as those on the internet  @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 10:27:14 PM
Exactly but now he is arguing that he called at 03:36. After he found out I had changed my mind about his innocence, he wrote to me asking why. One of the reasons was his changing of the timings - when I mentioned this to him, he wrote back saying he hadn't changed them at all (I guess he thinks we are idiots and can't read or that he is so clever, we might not notice  @)(++(*) - he followed the denial by telling me he had new logs, not the ones on the internet. I guess he forgot that he had previously sent me copies of the logs he had - they were the same as those on the internet  @)(++(* @)(++(*

Good grief.  *%87

He is just like a child caught with an empty cookie jar, he thinks because no one saw him actually eat the cookies he can just deny it and still have pudding!

The first item of evidence they are demanding on their pointless petition is the recordings of the "two" phone calls so voice analysis can prove JB didn't make them both! - They cannot be serious?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2020, 10:40:13 PM
Good grief.  *%87

He is just like a child caught with an empty cookie jar, he thinks because no one saw him actually eat the cookies he can just deny it and still have pudding!

The first item of evidence they are demanding on their pointless petition is the recordings of the "two" phone calls so voice analysis can prove JB didn't make them both! - They cannot be serious?

Yes, very much like a child - he called me 'naughty' - which kind of creeped me out!

I don't read their twaddle but any list is no doubt based on fiction. I certainly can't see how West would have recorded the call he received and if Bonnett's call was recorded, it wouldn't be Bamber talking to him, it would be West  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 27, 2020, 10:42:09 PM
Good grief.  *%87

He is just like a child caught with an empty cookie jar, he thinks because no one saw him actually eat the cookies he can just deny it and still have pudding!

The first item of evidence they are demanding on their pointless petition is the recordings of the "two" phone calls so voice analysis can prove JB didn't make them both! - They cannot be serious?


Similarly said by John McEnroe.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 27, 2020, 10:52:48 PM
Yes, very much like a child - he called me 'naughty' - which kind of creeped me out!

I don't read their twaddle but any list is no doubt based on fiction. I certainly can't see how West would have recorded the call he received and if Bonnett's call was recorded, it wouldn't be Bamber talking to him, it would be West  @)(++(*

Apart from trying to change Holly's mind, I wonder what we are all really doing here. Guilters are redundant when the CT do such a good job of undermining him.

Although I think sometimes what he fears the most is being forgotten and they have helped him put his name on the map.

Right in the middle of Sc..thorpe
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 27, 2020, 10:59:46 PM
Apart from trying to change Holly's mind, I wonder what we are all really doing here. Guilters are redundant when the CT do such a good job of undermining him.

Although I think sometimes what he fears the most is being forgotten and they have helped him put his name on the map.

Right in the middle of Sc..thorpe

 @)(++(* @)(++(*

I wonder that myself - often

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 09:31:59 AM
Then why has Bamber changed his timings? A few years ago Jeremy was adamant that he called the police at 03:26, accusing West of altering the log from 03:26 to 03:36. I have the document that the CT formulated detaining how they believed West perjured himself over the logs. In their argument, EP were supposed to have changed the times to make it look as though Bamber had called Julie first and he was adamant he called police around 03:20 (at that point). Now he and they are arguing the that Bamber did indeed call West at 03:36 in order to bluff a call from Nevill. The CCRC aren't stupid!

Sounds like Mark Newby may have found a way round this if he’s claiming otherwise

The CCRC aren’t all they are cracked up to be. They’ve referred numerous murder convictions of guilty men to the CoA and they are reviewing the Ben Geen case for a second time & the Robin Garbutt case for a third.

And - they will apparently take Bamber ‘seriously’ if/when he approaches them for a further review of his case

The Commission’s contribution to society is important. Miscarriages of justice remain a reality, as are the challenges to the organisation charged with their investigation. The CCRC Chairman’s concluding words provide an apt statement of aspiration: “We can’t know whether a particular person is telling the truth or not. We do not know whether they committed the crime they are accused of or not.” But, he said, people are entitled to be taken seriously when they approach the CCRC claiming to have been the victim of a miscarriage of justice. “Detailed, thorough, impartial investigation may confirm what they are saying – or it may tell us otherwise. But the possibility that what they are saying may indeed be the truth must always, always be our starting point. How different might the case of the Birmingham Six have been had it been approached from the beginning in that spirit?”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 10:04:44 AM
We can all agree that the investigation was a complete shambles from the beginning but the inquest recorded it as murder-suicide and Taff was convinced that it was.  No one (except the relatives) would have batted an eyelid if JB had inherited the lot and sailed off to quickly spend it all on cocaine and Bollinger and neither would there have been two inquiries into the EP that they invited on themselves by changing course and exposing their own bungling but the fact is, they were lead eventually by the evidence. 

If they had treated JB as a possible suspect from the beginning as they would today, the case would have long faded in the memory.

I can't agree that MF was not up to the job, he had 13 years experience and could draw on any other published expert opinion to back up his own. He was honest enough to say that the phenomenon of back spatter was not fully understood at that time - he didn't mean not fully understood by just himself but by anyone in the field at that time.  Do you really think he went to the Old Bailey armed with only his own opinion and hunches  ( and not just on the back spatter) ?

I'll have a look at Dr Di Maio in a bit but I can't see how a JFK style reconstruction would have helped,  we know roughly where the killer was in WHF as evidenced by the casings etc, it tells us nothing about who the killer was, just as if there had been two people in the book depository in Dallas, all we would know is roughly where the bullets came from.


Excellent, CS — I always enjoy your intelligent, well thought-out posts. They make such sense.

I might add, though, that the case didn’t go to the Old Bailey — it was tried at Colchester Crown Court (or Chelmsford, one or the other)

I read somewhere that Jeremy Bamber was somewhat upset about that. He expected someone as grand as himself to be tried at the highest criminal court in the land😤

I guess he was imagining the public queuing for hours to get a seat in the public gallery so he could show them his “good side” which he he thought he had. Off topic, I know, but both his biological parents’ had extremely large somewhat hooked noses, Im wondering if he had his altered at some stage? He was and is incredibly vain..

Because he isn’t normal being a psychopath it doesn’t occur to him when he has his annual mugshot taken in prison, that it looks odd to pose, sometimes smile, and stand with his chest puffed out 😌

Actually, I think the last mugshot he posted of himself was some years back. Wonder why? Has he gone bald does anyone know? Or been binging on cakes and whacked on a few stone? The journalist who visited him a few years back said Jeremy looked much older than his years, had drooping jowls, and a grey complexion. Bet he misses his sunbeds.🤨
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 28, 2020, 10:06:53 AM

Jeremy Bamber has no family because he killed them all


He has living relatives, not that I think any of them support him!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 10:31:52 AM
We know the blood/silencer is the key evidence.  If it wasn't it wouldn't have been referred to Coa in 2002 on the back of this.

The case whole 2002 appeal is utter tosh.  Never mind third time lucky!

Yes, and the CoA slung his case out in 2002.


When someone is convicted, then makes two appeals, losing both, including losing the appeal at the court of Human Rights, you can’t keep running back with the same old “fresh evidence” which the courts have already heard.

He and his team are like a mini Brexit. The Remainers wanted another vote, and that didn’t happen, either.

When you’ve lost you’ve lost, and just as you can’t unscramble an egg, JB and his team will never be able to undo what Jeremy was proven to have done — he killed all his family.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 11:06:08 AM
Bamber’s campaign team have made claim:

Essex police have also ignored a request for material from the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) under section 17 of the Criminal Appeals Act.
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

And recently:

“....the Criminal Cases Review Commission who have already unsuccessfully tried to obtain disclosure of some of the documents requested in the booklet.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1254842621098426368
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 28, 2020, 11:20:52 AM
Bamber’s campaign team have made claim:

Essex police have also ignored a request for material from the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) under section 17 of the Criminal Appeals Act.
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter

And recently:

“....the Criminal Cases Review Commission who have already unsuccessfully tried to obtain disclosure of some of the documents requested in the booklet.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1254842621098426368

The usual BS.

The CT actually state themselves that the original handwritten log could not be located, not that disclosure was refused.

I'm willing to bet the CCRC have seen the "undisclosed" photographs they bleat on about and found nothing of value in them too - something their 2012 statement of reasons could shed light on.

It's the ultimate hypocrisy for team Bamber to harp on about non disclosure and the police "hiding the truth"   
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 28, 2020, 11:27:05 AM
The usual BS.

The CT actually state themselves that the original handwritten log could not be located, not that disclosure was refused.

I'm willing to bet the CCRC have seen the "undisclosed" photographs they bleat on about and found nothing of value in them too - something their 2012 statement of reasons could shed light on.

It's the ultimate hypocrisy for team Bamber to harp on about non disclosure and the police "hiding the truth"

He told me years ago that he had 'almost' all of the withheld stuff, he told CAL that he had all of it. You can go on forever saying evidence if withheld and people will believe it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 11:27:44 AM
The usual BS.

The CT actually state themselves that the original handwritten log could not be located, not that disclosure was refused.

I'm willing to bet the CCRC have seen the "undisclosed" photographs they bleat on about and found nothing of value in them too - something their 2012 statement of reasons could shed light on.

It's the ultimate hypocrisy for team Bamber to harp on about non disclosure and the police "hiding the truth"

He told me years ago that he had 'almost' all of the withheld stuff, he told CAL that he had all of it. You can go on forever saying evidence if withheld and people will believe it.


So what’s in their submissions ?



Joe Stone QC is representing Jeremy Bamber who has launched a high court challenge to the Crown Prosecution Service for its failure to disclose evidence that would undermine the safety of his conviction.
Joe Stone QC is instructed by Mark Newby of Quality Solicitors.
Press coverage can be found here: The Guardian

https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/joe-stone-qc-instructed-jeremy-bamber-launches-court-challenge-cps-withholding-evidence


Joe Stone QC has specialised in criminal defence for over 30 years.  He was called to the Bar in 1989 and appointed Queens Counsel (QC) in 2013.

He represents those indicted with all types of homicide (murder, manslaughter, death by reckless/careless driving and infanticide), large scale international drug conspiracies and top tier organised crime. He is also instructed privately in high profile sex allegations and has secured acquittals in the most complex of cases.

His primary focus is trial work and high profile appeals. He is currently instructed on one of the most notorious alleged miscarriages of justice in English criminal history – the Jeremy Bamber case.  He has successfully represented over many years those indicted with murder under the joint enterprise rules in major city gang related stabbings, shootings and executions. He has conducted over 200 murder trials and is recognised in the directories as a leader in this field.

https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/joe-stone-qc
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 28, 2020, 11:51:43 AM

So what’s in their submissions ?



Joe Stone QC is representing Jeremy Bamber who has launched a high court challenge to the Crown Prosecution Service for its failure to disclose evidence that would undermine the safety of his conviction.
Joe Stone QC is instructed by Mark Newby of Quality Solicitors.
Press coverage can be found here: The Guardian

https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/joe-stone-qc-instructed-jeremy-bamber-launches-court-challenge-cps-withholding-evidence


Joe Stone QC has specialised in criminal defence for over 30 years.  He was called to the Bar in 1989 and appointed Queens Counsel (QC) in 2013.

He represents those indicted with all types of homicide (murder, manslaughter, death by reckless/careless driving and infanticide), large scale international drug conspiracies and top tier organised crime. He is also instructed privately in high profile sex allegations and has secured acquittals in the most complex of cases.

His primary focus is trial work and high profile appeals. He is currently instructed on one of the most notorious alleged miscarriages of justice in English criminal history – the Jeremy Bamber case.  He has successfully represented over many years those indicted with murder under the joint enterprise rules in major city gang related stabbings, shootings and executions. He has conducted over 200 murder trials and is recognised in the directories as a leader in this field.

https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/joe-stone-qc

We'll have to see but hopefully, the non-disclosure issue will be sorted out once and for all.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 12:02:41 PM

So what’s in their submissions ?



Joe Stone QC is representing Jeremy Bamber who has launched a high court challenge to the Crown Prosecution Service for its failure to disclose evidence that would undermine the safety of his conviction.
Joe Stone QC is instructed by Mark Newby of Quality Solicitors.
Press coverage can be found here: The Guardian

https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/joe-stone-qc-instructed-jeremy-bamber-launches-court-challenge-cps-withholding-evidence


Joe Stone QC has specialised in criminal defence for over 30 years.  He was called to the Bar in 1989 and appointed Queens Counsel (QC) in 2013.

He represents those indicted with all types of homicide (murder, manslaughter, death by reckless/careless driving and infanticide), large scale international drug conspiracies and top tier organised crime. He is also instructed privately in high profile sex allegations and has secured acquittals in the most complex of cases.

His primary focus is trial work and high profile appeals. He is currently instructed on one of the most notorious alleged miscarriages of justice in English criminal history – the Jeremy Bamber case.  He has successfully represented over many years those indicted with murder under the joint enterprise rules in major city gang related stabbings, shootings and executions. He has conducted over 200 murder trials and is recognised in the directories as a leader in this field.

https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/joe-stone-qc

Has anyone else noticed how the Criminal Cases Review Commission don’t appear to have commented publicly on this
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 12:05:33 PM
David Rose for the Daily Mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5140343/Criminal-Cases-Review-Commission-ignores-new-evidence.html

“Revealed: Fresh evidence that could have cleared the 'Cocaine Crew' of £53m smuggling plot is REJECTED despite suggesting fishing boat never reached where drug bags dumped” Dec 2017

”Five men serving prison terms of up to 24 years for a £53 million drug smuggling plot have lost their bid to appeal – despite fresh scientific evidence suggesting the version of events presented by the prosecution at the trial was ‘impossible’.

Almost four years after The Mail on Sunday published the first of three investigations casting doubt on the convictions, the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which has the power to refer possible miscarriages of justice to the Court of Appeal, has decided to take no action.

In doing so, it is rejecting expert evidence that the fishing boat reputedly used to pick up holdalls packed with cocaine from the English Channel never actually reached the spot where the bags might have been dumped. The CCRC has also disregarded fresh evidence from a recently retired senior drugs crime investigator, who found ‘serious discrepancies’ in the surveillance records.

The CCRC’s 78-page ‘Statement of Reasons’, seen by this newspaper, makes clear that it did not commission any of its own scientific tests, nor seek advice from a single independent expert to confirm or deny the men’s claim of innocence.

The statement’s author, CCRC commissioner David Smith, said he did not consider any such tests were necessary. In his view, there was still no ‘real possibility’ that the men might win an appeal.

Isle of Wight crab and lobster fisherman Jamie Green, who owned the 39ft Galwad-y-Mor, was jailed for 24 years in 2011, as was casual labourer Zoran Dresic and Mr Green’s lifelong friend, Jonathan Beere. Crewmen Danny Payne and Scott Birtwistle got 18 and 14 years respectively.

According to the prosecution, Green sailed his boat into the middle of the Channel in a Force 8 gale on the night of May 29, 2010. There, it was claimed, the Galwad-y-Mor crossed the wake of the Oriane, a Brazilian container ship, just after 12 rucksacks containing a total of 560 lb of cocaine had allegedly been thrown from its deck.

Working in total darkness, with waves up to 30ft, Green and his crew were said to have retrieved the bags in about two minutes. Then, after spending ten hours fishing, they returned to the inshore waters of the island’s Freshwater Bay, where, in broad daylight, the crew threw the bags back into the water. They were found next morning by another fisherman, and retrieved by the Serious and Organised Crime Agency (SOCA).

As this newspaper has previously revealed, defence solicitor Emily Bolton consulted a leading marine GPS expert, who concluded the closest the paths of the boats came to each other was 175 metres (190 yards). Moreover, he said the Galwad-y-Mor could not have sailed to the spot where the drug bags were subsequently found anchored to the seabed because the water is too shallow.

‘This new analysis, based on evidence that was not available at the trial, undermines the case put to the jury,’ Ms Bolton said. ‘It should have persuaded the CCRC to refer it to the Court of Appeal.’

She said the commission’s decision not to was ‘baffling and perverse’ – and said it had shown ‘a lack of understanding of the technical evidence’.

But the CCRC said the new evidence was unlikely to make a difference to the outcome because another expert, Mik Chinnery, had already told the trial jury it would have been ‘impossible’ for Green’s crew to collect the bags from the water, yet they still found the men guilty by majority verdict.

However, Mr Chinnery testified about the difficulty of locating and recovering the bags from the heaving sea, not the course of the boats.

But Mr Smith told The Mail on Sunday he disagreed that the trial expert was making a fundamentally different point. He added: ‘We didn’t consider the new analysis would make a difference.’

Mr Smith also rejected a new report from the Plymouth Marine Laboratory, which says currents on the night would mean any bags thrown from the Oriane would have floated away from the Galwad-y-Mor, not towards it. There were ‘too many variables’, Mr Smith said, and if the Galwad was ‘in the vicinity’ of the Oriane, then it was possible she did pick up the drugs.

As for the claim that the water was too shallow in Freshwater Bay, Mr Smith said it was uncertain whether the anchor to which the bags were tied was heavy enough to stop them moving from deeper waters where the boat could have sailed. He rejected suggestions that the CCRC should have conducted tests to settle this, saying: ‘I don’t think it can be established that the anchor didn’t move.’


The CCRC also rejected fresh evidence from Don Dewar, a retired senior anti-drug officer who found ‘inexplicable gaps’ in the surveillance records used to convict the men. Mr Smith agreed there were discrepancies, but not enough to show they had been fabricated.

The CCRC’s decision comes amid mounting concern at the plummeting rate at which it is referring cases for appeals – down from more than three per cent of applications five years ago to just 0.7 per cent last year – as it faces budget pressures.

Ms Bolton said the men now plan to challenge the CCRC decision with a judicial review.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5140343/Criminal-Cases-Review-Commission-ignores-new-evidence.html


‘David Smith’ appears to be David James Smith who met with & wrote about Bamber’s case

Carol Ann Lee makes reference to Mr James Smith in her book ‘The Murders at White House Farm’

Mass murderer Jeremy Bamber also referred to ‘life on Mars’ when being interviewed by David James Smith

It was, Bamber pointed out to me, the days of life on Mars, the drama that depicted the bad old days of policing (He has seen the show on TV in prison. And loves it)

http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf

"I am delighted to endorse this comprehensive book on wrongful convictions. In its clear and concise terms it will help readers start to grasp hold of a system which is overly complex and stacked against those who have been wrongfully convicted. The book will help all those who have suffered an injustice to have direction as they continue to fight to clear their names.’ – Mark Newby, Solicitor Advocate, Jordans LLP, Doncaster
http://michaeljnaughton.com/?page_id=877

No defence: latest in Justice Gap series out - By Jon Robins 25 June 2013
‘Lawyers are at the heart of many cases of the wrongly accused and wrongly convicted: wrong, shoddy, lazy representation. It is a recurrent theme. It should haunt us.’
So said Gareth Peirce, speaking at the launch of Wrongly Accused: who is responsible for investigating miscarriages of justice?

No defence: miscarriages of justice and lawyers is that latest publication in the Justice Gap series and follows on from Wrongly Accused: who is responsible for investigating miscarriages of justice? (to be published in association with Solicitors Journal and Wilmington shortly). You can download that collection

"Show me a miscarriage of justice and, nine times out of 10, I will show you the blueprint that caused it, writes Eric Allison. Eric Allison is the Guardian’s prison correspondent.
This essay will feature in a new collection of essays (No defence: miscarriages of justice and lawyers) as part of the Justice Gap series and following on from Wrongly Accused: who is responsible for investigating miscarriages of justice? (to be published in association with Solicitors Journal and Wilmington). You can download that collection HERE.
Contributors for No Defence include Eric Allison; Dr Ros Burnett; Prof Ed Cape; Dr Dennis Eady; Francis Fitzgibbon QC; Mark George QC; Andrew Green; Campbell Malone; Michael Mansfield QC; Mark Newby; Daniel Newman; Paul May; Dr Angus Nurse; Correna Platt; Julie Price; Dr Hannah Quirk; David Rose; Adam Sampson; Satish Sekar; and Tom Wainwright. Thanks to all.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/no-defence-latest-in-justice-gap-series-out-now/

Mark Newby, Mike Naughton, Dennis Eady & Glyn Maddocks, Carolyn Hoyle, Carole McCartney and Josephine Hodgson giving evidence at the justice committee 13th Jan 2015
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507

Carolyn Hoyle published a book in Aug 2015 called, “Reasons to Doubt: Wrongful Convictions and the Criminal Cases Review Commission” following several years of studying the CCRC - alongside a colleague Mai Soto

Last Resorts: Decisions and Discretion at the Criminal Cases Review Commission
hhttps://www.law.ox.ac.uk/content/last-resorts-decisions-and-discretion-criminal-cases-review-commission

Interestingly Carolyn Hoyle is married to David Rose who wrote and published the above

Doesn’t this suggest a conflict of interest ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 12:22:44 PM
Bamber’s control over his ‘targets’ is self evident


Robert Greene is a brilliant author, and is amazingly accurate in reading the mind.


This excerpt here is fitting for JB, especially as he runs his group of recruits mainly online...he explains how they control people and gives an insight into what type of people are drawn to psychopaths.


“Psychopaths are also expertly skilled at surrounding themselves with givers—insecure people who find self-worth in taking care of others. This is why your giving seems so insignificant and replaceable during the relationship. They adore qualities in others who are nothing like you—sometimes even the exact opposite of you. The message is simple: you are no longer special. You are replaceable. If you don’t give them the worshipping they deserve, they’ll always have other sources. And even if you do give them positive energy, they’ll get bored of you eventually. They don’t need you. Their current round of fans will always spoil and admire them, making you believe that they truly must be a great person. But take a careful look around. You’ll notice that they all seem to have an unspoken misery about them.”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 12:27:21 PM
Then why has Bamber changed his timings? A few years ago Jeremy was adamant that he called the police at 03:26, accusing West of altering the log from 03:26 to 03:36. I have the document that the CT formulated detaining how they believed West perjured himself over the logs. In their argument, EP were supposed to have changed the times to make it look as though Bamber had called Julie first and he was adamant he called police around 03:20 (at that point). Now he and they are arguing the that Bamber did indeed call West at 03:36 in order to bluff a call from Nevill. The CCRC aren't stupid!


Do they realise how stupid they all are?

I’ve always believed JB is a tad thick anyway, or maybe it’s just his arrogance that prevents him from realising normal people can see through his lies.

How can they possibly think the CCRC would take this madness seriously?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 12:30:27 PM
Exactly but now he is arguing that he called at 03:36. After he found out I had changed my mind about his innocence, he wrote to me asking why. One of the reasons was his changing of the timings - when I mentioned this to him, he wrote back saying he hadn't changed them at all (I guess he thinks we are idiots and can't read or that he is so clever, we might not notice  @)(++(*) - he followed the denial by telling me he had new logs, not the ones on the internet. I guess he forgot that he had previously sent me copies of the logs he had - they were the same as those on the internet  @)(++(* @)(++(*


Did you find him thick, Caroline?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 12:34:51 PM
Good grief.  *%87

He is just like a child caught with an empty cookie jar, he thinks because no one saw him actually eat the cookies he can just deny it and still have pudding!

The first item of evidence they are demanding on their pointless petition is the recordings of the "two" phone calls so voice analysis can prove JB didn't make them both! - They cannot be serious?


He phoned the local police station — he knows the calls aren’t recorded.

He’s doing this to suggest he can prove he AND Nevill phoned police too, when he knows full well no recordings exist.

When EP say they haven’t got recordings, his CT will say they’re withholding evidence

No wonder the courts can’t stand hearing his latest demands...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 12:43:34 PM
”Last Resorts: Decisions and Discretion at the Criminal Cases Review Commission”
https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/content/last-resorts-decisions-and-discretion-criminal-cases-review-commission

Excerpts:
”Thursday 2 November marked the CCRC’s celebration of twenty years of investigations and referrals back to the Court of Appeal Criminal Division at their 20th Anniversary Conference in London. The audience represented the range of stakeholders concerned with tackling miscarriages of justice: appeal lawyers, CCRC commissioners, members of parliament, forensic scientists, charity workers, investigative journalists, academics, and a handful of victims of wrongful conviction, including two who participated in panel discussions - Michael O’Brien and John Kamara.

”Commissioners too were keen to express their frustrations, agreeing that police misconduct and failure to disclose exculpatory evidence are two of the most common points raised by their applicants. Forensic experts concurred with the CCRC and others that such cases are likely to increase in number and severity as agencies struggle to manage the vast data sources made possible by mobile and satellite communications and other devices that takes considerable resources to search, making accidental and incompetent non-disclosure more likely.

“What is causing this declining rate was of interest to most in the audience, but Commissioners seemed unable to account for it. On the one hand, the Chair suggested that austerity could be a cause: a representative from the Ministry of Justice spoke about underfunding of criminal justice and cuts that might be affecting the quality of applications to the CCRC, with fewer applicants being legally represented due to restrictions on Legal Aid (this is currently being researched by the University of Sussex). In light of Hodgson and Horne’s research, which found that CCRC applications with legal representation were more likely to be successfully referred than those who weren’t, this is cause for concern.

“So where to from here? Many raised the need for more thorough research into contemporary threats to fair and equal justice, including a thematic review of miscarriages of justice cases.David Rose proposed a very sensible suggestion of making full trial and appeal transcriptions freely available to appellants and legal representatives in order to increase the chances of discovering flaws in the prosecution case and producing more robust applications to the CCRC. In turn, the CCRC proposed a new initiative to increase transparency in the form of a user group forum of interested stakeholders to share information as well as frustrations.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 28, 2020, 12:44:16 PM

He has living relatives, not that I think any of them support him!


Do you mean the Eatons?

Or Nevill’s nice and nephew?

I’d say they don’t give him a second’s thought...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 28, 2020, 12:45:46 PM

Do you mean the Eatons?

Or Nevill’s nice and nephew?

I’d say they don’t give him a second’s thought...

Except when he keeps popping up in the news or the CT perform another. ridiculous publicity stunt.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 01:02:26 PM
We'll have to see but hopefully, the non-disclosure issue will be sorted out once and for all.

Maybe overturning Bamber’s murder convictions on a technicality - where another guilty man goes free - will put a stop to 10 innocent men going to jail?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 01:06:23 PM
He told me years ago that he had 'almost' all of the withheld stuff, he told CAL that he had all of it. You can go on forever saying evidence if withheld and people will believe it.

Almost all isn’t the same as ALL

Bamber wants it ALL
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 01:14:31 PM

Robert Greene is a brilliant author, and is amazingly accurate in reading the mind.


This excerpt here is fitting for JB, especially as he runs his group of recruits mainly online...he explains how they control people and gives an insight into what type of people are drawn to psychopaths.


“Psychopaths are also expertly skilled at surrounding themselves with givers—insecure people who find self-worth in taking care of others. This is why your giving seems so insignificant and replaceable during the relationship. They adore qualities in others who are nothing like you—sometimes even the exact opposite of you. The message is simple: you are no longer special. You are replaceable. If you don’t give them the worshipping they deserve, they’ll always have other sources. And even if you do give them positive energy, they’ll get bored of you eventually. They don’t need you. Their current round of fans will always spoil and admire them, making you believe that they truly must be a great person. But take a careful look around. You’ll notice that they all seem to have an unspoken misery about them.”

Robert Greene wrote this you say?

Can you post a link  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 01:38:00 PM
Except when he keeps popping up in the news or the CT perform another. ridiculous publicity stunt.

Was this another ‘ridiculous publicly stunt’ ?

In an article published today on The Justice Gap “Not Innocent Enough to be Compensated?”, Mark Newby and Matthew Stanbury write:

Current and future claimants will likely find that their prospects of success are not improved in any substantial way by this decision; however they will at least now be able to have some confidence that the secretary of state will be required to respect judicial rulings on the state of the evidence, and to have proper regard to the rules of evidence that applied in the original and any subsequent trial. They should at the very least know that if the Secretary of State does seek to go behind such rulings, he must give reasons for doing so, that may be amenable to judicial review, and that he should only make such a departure in exceptional circumstances.”

“Overall, they remain faced with a system in which the successive secretaries of state have demonstrated themselves only too willing to find ways to avoid paying out compensation no matter how hard the search for reasons to do so.”

https://gcnchambers.co.uk/miscarriage-compensation-test-case-succeeds-as-other-claimants-fail/

”The Court of Appeal needs to acknowledge miscarriages of justice – and ensure that they don’t occur in the future”
(2018)
https://www.thejusticegap.com/the-court-of-appeal-needs-to-acknowledge-miscarriages-of-justice-and-ensure-that-they-dont-occur-in-the-future/

Ian Lawless had his murder conviction overturned on a technicality thanks to Mark Newby

Apparently,

Mr Lawless successfully appealed his conviction for murder in 2009 based on the fact that the only evidence against him was his own false confessions given due to mental health problems he had at the time.

I’ve no idea if Ian Lawless was monitored under MAPPA like Barry George was after being acquitted of murdering Jill Dando but after the CoA deemed his murder conviction ‘unsafe’ he went on to be ‘banned from every football ground in the country after an incident at Barnet.
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/grimsby-town-fan-who-cleared-1187985

Imagine the carnage someone like Bamber could cause if he were to over turn his murder convictions ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 01:53:21 PM
“Overall, they remain faced with a system in which the successive secretaries of state have demonstrated themselves only too willing to find ways to avoid paying out compensation no matter how hard the search for reasons to do so.

https://gcnchambers.co.uk/miscarriage-compensation-test-case-succeeds-as-other-claimants-fail/

Have the ‘successive Secretaries of State’ recognised innocence fraud and is this why compensation hasn’t been paid out in some cases? I believe so.

Ian Lawless had his murder conviction overturned on a technicality thanks to Mark Newby

Apparently,

Mr Lawless successfully appealed his conviction for murder in 2009 based on the fact that the only evidence against him was his own false confessions given due to mental health problems he had at the time.

I’ve no idea if Ian Lawless was monitored under MAPPA like Barry George was after being acquitted of murdering Jill Dando but after the CoA deemed his murder conviction ‘unsafe’ he went on to be ‘banned from every football ground in the country after an incident at Barnet.
[/i] https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/grimsby-town-fan-who-cleared-1187985

Imagine the carnage someone like Bamber could cause if he were to over turn his murder convictions ?

Would these things be of concern to Mark Newby ? I don’t think they would.

’Attention-seeker' has murder conviction quashed’
His solicitor, Mark Newby, said: "Ian is delighted to have his liberty today," but added that the case showed the continuing risk of "vulnerable people being pushed through the court process without the necessary safeguards in place".https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jun/16/ian-lawless-murder-conviction-quashed

He’s helped overturn Ian Lawless’s murder conviction. Him & Matt Stanbury then help him win compensation - to thank them he’s back in trouble and banned from every football ground in the country.

But what if Ian Lawless committed innocent fraud?

Who investigates this?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 02:21:39 PM
Matt Stanbury & Mark Newby

Current and future claimants will likely find that their prospects of success are not improved in any substantial way by this decision
https://www.thejusticegap.com/not-innocent-enough-to-be-compensated/


What  was  the point of it ?


And if you click on the above link to the article - at the side and foot it states the author is Jon Robins and in the body of the article it reads,

“Barry George, wrongly convicted of the murder of BBC TV presenter Jill Dando, has lost a bid for compensation, ruled the High Court today. Three other people whose convictions had been quashed also failed to win compensation but Ian Lawless, jailed for eight years for murder before being freed by the Court of Appeal in 2009, was successful.

This article is written by Mark Newby, solicitor advocate with QualitySolicitors Jordans and advisor to the Innocent Network UK, and Matthew Stanbury, a barrister at Garden Court North Chambers who practices in human rights, public law, prison law and crime.
Mark Newby and Matthew Stanbury acted for Ian Lawless.



Talk about ‘confusing’

Interestingly Matthew (Matt) Stanbury & Dean Kingham are representing Charles Salvador

Excerpts:
“Salvador’s legal team argues that the parole board rules’ blanket ban on public hearings is unlawful and, if successful, the challenge would force the government to change the regime. In particular, they argue that Parole Board Rules 2019, rule 15(3) requiring parole board hearings to be held in private offends the well-established principle of open justice as well as being in breach of the article six right to a fair and public hearing.

‘It is hoped that by providing Charles Salvador with the right to apply for a public parole hearing the public can gain a proper understanding of the parole process and it will push the secretary of state for justice to fully respect the independence of the Parole Board,’ comments his solicitor Dean Kingham of Swain and Co Solicitors.

The challenge is being brought by the same legal team, Dean Kingham together with barrister Matt Stanbury of Garden Court North, behind the recent challenge over concerns about the independence of the Criminal Cases Review Commission (the Gary Warner case – as reported on the Justice Gap here).

The government counters that open justice requirements are met by the possibility for a parole board to allow for observers and for a summary of a decision to be published. That falls ‘significantly short’ of what would be expected under the principles of open justice, the prisoner’s lawyers argue.

‘Charles Bronson’ became a fixture of the tabloid press over the years and is frequently referred to as ‘Britain’s most violent prison’. He now insists that he is a changed man. He changed his name in 2014 in tribute to the artist Salvador Dali.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/britains-most-notorious-prisoner-launches-legal-challenge-to-have-parole-hearing-held-in-public/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 02:38:11 PM
Do you see Bamber as ‘vulnerable’ Holly?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
The usual BS.

The CT actually state themselves that the original handwritten log could not be located, not that disclosure was refused.

I'm willing to bet the CCRC have seen the "undisclosed" photographs they bleat on about and found nothing of value in them too - something their 2012 statement of reasons could shed light on.

It's the ultimate hypocrisy for team Bamber to harp on about non disclosure and the police "hiding the truth"

Maybe they don’t?

Maybe the CCRC omitted this?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 28, 2020, 02:49:20 PM
Do you see Bamber as ‘vulnerable’ Holly?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 02:52:45 PM
Yes.

‘course you do

So is Mark Newby also following along these lines ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 28, 2020, 03:06:18 PM
‘course you do

So is Mark Newby also following along these lines ?

You asked me a question and I answered.

I've no idea how MN views JB and whether or not his personal and professional opinions differ.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 03:11:51 PM
I'm no lawyer, but I think IF (and it's a massive IF), he was successful via the CCRC, he was have to face a retrial and Julie (I am sure) would be called.

And possibly referred to as ‘a scorned women’ again
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 03:18:24 PM
Exactly but now he is arguing that he called at 03:36. After he found out I had changed my mind about his innocence, he wrote to me asking why. One of the reasons was his changing of the timings - when I mentioned this to him, he wrote back saying he hadn't changed them at all (I guess he thinks we are idiots and can't read or that he is so clever, we might not notice  @)(++(*) - he followed the denial by telling me he had new logs, not the ones on the internet. I guess he forgot that he had previously sent me copies of the logs he had - they were the same as those on the internet  @)(++(* @)(++(*

This behaviour is like a subtle warning - your card is marked sort of thing

Has he ever done anything like this to Aunt Agatha or anyone else?

Wonder how many people he keeps track of out here via his  spies  & if the prison monitor this ? I doubt they do - they should after all it’s their job but more often than not they only ever monitor this sort of thing if it’s brought to their attention and even then the prison will protect themselves as opposed to the person who’s reported it

Best to report things like this to the police first so they have a record

Did Daisy report Bamber to the police or the prison ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 03:32:51 PM
You asked me a question and I answered.

I've no idea how MN views JB and whether or not his personal and professional opinions differ.

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 04:20:15 PM

Yes.

Why are you choosing to make the perpetrator a victim Holly ?

I witnessed this behaviour when Simon Halls guilt was exposed
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 28, 2020, 04:53:30 PM

Do you mean the Eatons?

Or Nevill’s nice and nephew?

I’d say they don’t give him a second’s thought...

I meant all of them. There may be more distant relatives too, but I don't know.

I'm sure at least some of them DO give him a second thought------every time he plans an appeal.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 28, 2020, 05:28:46 PM
Why are you choosing to make the perpetrator a victim Holly ?

I witnessed this behaviour when Simon Halls guilt was exposed

You asked if I thought of him as vulnerable and I said yes.

If he's innocent then yes he's a victim too.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 05:35:37 PM
You asked if I thought of him as vulnerable and I said yes.

If he's innocent then yes he's a victim too.

A thieving, cheating, lying, manipulative predator is anything but vulnerable Holly

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 06:38:19 PM
John Curtis - Jan 2015 ‘Righting Wrongs’
Excerpts:
”Thursday 2 November marked the CCRC’s celebration of twenty years of investigations and referrals back to the Court of Appeal Criminal Division at their 20th Anniversary Conference in London. The audience represented the range of stakeholders concerned with tackling miscarriages of justice: appeal lawyers, CCRC commissioners, members of parliament, forensic scientists, charity workers, investigative journalists, academics, and a handful of victims of wrongful conviction, including two who participated in panel discussions - Michael O’Brien and John Kamara.

”Commissioners too were keen to express their frustrations, agreeing that police misconduct and failure to disclose exculpatory evidence are two of the most common points raised by their applicants. Forensic experts concurred with the CCRC and others that such cases are likely to increase in number and severity as agencies struggle to manage the vast data sources made possible by mobile and satellite communications and other devices that takes considerable resources to search, making accidental and incompetent non-disclosure more likely.

“What is causing this declining rate was of interest to most in the audience, but Commissioners seemed unable to account for it. On the one hand, the Chair suggested that austerity could be a cause: a representative from the Ministry of Justice spoke about underfunding of criminal justice and cuts that might be affecting the quality of applications to the CCRC, with fewer applicants being legally represented due to restrictions on Legal Aid (this is currently being researched by the University of Sussex). In light of Hodgson and Horne’s research, which found that CCRC applications with legal representation were more likely to be successfully referred than those who weren’t, this is cause for concern.

“So where to from here? Many raised the need for more thorough research into contemporary threats to fair and equal justice, including a thematic review of miscarriages of justice cases.David Rose proposed a very sensible suggestion of making full trial and appeal transcriptions freely available to appellants and legal representatives in order to increase the chances of discovering flaws in the prosecution case and producing more robust applications to the CCRC. In turn, the CCRC proposed a new initiative to increase transparency in the form of a user group forum of interested stakeholders to share information as well as frustrations.

https://www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/righting-wrongs

David Rose - Oct 2011 ‘If they didn't do it, who did?’
”Until today, the CCRC’s proceedings have taken place behind closed doors. Not any longer. Present while the four men weigh Hallam’s future are this reporter, and Live’s photographer. With the permission of Hallam and his family, we have been granted exclusive and unprecedented access.

“The CCRC has its critics. Meeting that ‘real possibility’ test through the discovery of fresh evidence or other compelling material not presented at a trial is not easy, and having considered more than 13,000 cases to date, the commission has referred only 478.

The legal academic Michael Naughton, of Bristol University, says the ‘real possibility’ test has made the commission overly timid, unwilling to risk referring a case where the outcome looks doubtful.

Yet to anyone who dealt with the system that existed to deal with alleged miscarriages of justice before the CCRC’s creation, it represents a significant advance. Before 1997 they were handled by a section of the Home Office, C3.

“Another prominent case is that of Jeremy Bamber, who was convicted in 1986 of murdering five members of his family in their farmhouse at Tolleshunt D’Arcy in Essex. The CCRC referred him to the Appeal Court in 2002, where he lost.

Earlier this year, having spent thousands of hours investigating a further application submitted by his lawyers, it reached a provisional decision that the points raised in this latest application were not compelling enough to meet the ‘real possibility’ test, though he still has a final chance to make further submissions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2042831/Not-jailed-murder-actually-committed-crime--meet-commission-helps-clear-them.html


David Rose was given unique access to the star chamber that helped to clear them”

And interestingly his wife Carolyn Hoyle was also given ‘unique access’’ to ‘the star chamber’

Professor Carolyn Hoyle on her major research into the miscarriage of justice watchdog eight years in the making
https://www.thejusticegap.com/proof-magazine-reasons-to-doubt/

More on David Rose

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2010/dec/08/david-rose-climate-science

https://www.desmog.co.uk/david-rose

https://mobile.twitter.com/davidroseuk/status/1223588550345678848?lang=en

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/606867-shahbaz-sharif-sues-david-rose-mail-on-sunday-in-uk-high-court

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe7pgqQsZhU
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 28, 2020, 06:51:40 PM
A thieving, cheating, lying, manipulative predator is anything but vulnerable Holly

That's your perception of him not mine.

Regardless I think all prisoners are vulnerable. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 28, 2020, 07:42:57 PM
Yes.

REALLY?  &%%6
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 28, 2020, 07:46:46 PM
This behaviour is like a subtle warning - your card is marked sort of thing

Has he ever done anything like this to Aunt Agatha or anyone else?

Wonder how many people he keeps track of out here via his  spies  & if the prison monitor this ? I doubt they do - they should after all it’s their job but more often than not they only ever monitor this sort of thing if it’s brought to their attention and even then the prison will protect themselves as opposed to the person who’s reported it

Best to report things like this to the police first so they have a record

Did Daisy report Bamber to the police or the prison ?

Oh I am sure the CT read the forums and chirp back regularly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 28, 2020, 08:38:09 PM
That's your perception of him not mine.

Regardless I think all prisoners are vulnerable.

I didn’t mention perception but it’s interesting you did

Perception Is Not Reality
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201908/perception-is-not-reality
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 28, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
I didn’t mention perception but it’s interesting you did

Perception Is Not Reality
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201908/perception-is-not-reality

My perception is my reality.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 28, 2020, 09:20:38 PM
That's your perception of him not mine.

Regardless I think all prisoners are vulnerable.

How many do you know?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2020, 12:39:56 AM
’Attention-seeker' has murder conviction quashed’
His solicitor,Mark Newby, said: "Ian is delighted to have his liberty today," but added that the case showed the continuing risk of "vulnerable people being pushed through the court process without the necessary safeguards in place".https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jun/16/ian-lawless-murder-conviction-quashed

”the case showed the continuing risk of "vulnerable people being pushed through the court process without the necessary safeguards in place”

Some ‘safeguards’

Grimsby Town fan who was cleared of murder is banned from every football ground in country

 *&^^&

What utter nonsense
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 29, 2020, 07:41:19 AM
Robert Greene wrote this you say?

Can you post a link  8((()*/


https://www.physisconsultancy.co.uk/2016/05/05/triangulation/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 29, 2020, 07:53:23 AM
I meant all of them. There may be more distant relatives too, but I don't know.

I'm sure at least some of them DO give him a second thought------every time he plans an appeal.

And that’s all they give him: a quick second thought while they roll their eyes in boredom 🙄
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on April 29, 2020, 09:16:23 AM
And that’s all they give him: a quick second thought while they roll their eyes in boredom 🙄

Apprehension, I would think.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2020, 11:05:12 AM
Has anyone else noticed how the Criminal Cases Review Commission don’t appear to have commented publicly on this

Don’t forget the Kevin Nunn case which Mark Newby referred to as a ‘disaster’

Supreme Court’s judgment in Nunn a “disaster” that reinforced difficulties getting exhibits, says Mark Newby
https://mobile.twitter.com/C4CrimAppeals/status/964528097327566848

”Lawyers for Bamber – whose case is currently the subject of a six-part ITV dramatisation – have found in archives a series of statements by senior officers and the police surgeon that they say contradict that claim. They say the documents were never seen by the trial jury, and suggest that Caffell appeared to have only one gunshot wound when the police entered the crime scene.

“Mark Newby, a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, told the Guardian:

The jury only heard of the two shots, which was relied upon by the crown to support their case, but this wasn’t the whole picture. It represents yet another significant aspect to this case which supports Jeremy Bamber and undermines this conviction.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true


Did the trial jury hear from the Vet, Anji and Virginia Greaves, Sue Ford etc ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 29, 2020, 11:09:59 AM
How many do you know?

How many do think Lady Edwina Grosvenor 'knows' ? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 29, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
How many do think Lady Edwina Grosvenor 'knows' ?

I have no idea but I'm not asking her, I asked you?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2020, 12:29:41 PM
Who was the ‘close friend’ that claimed to the Suns Kieron Saunders, the day after the Murders (8th Aug 1985), SC ’had been taking methadone, a heroin substitute’?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7143593/jeremy-bamber/

Maybe someone can post the front page of the Sun, which was published the day after the murders, on the forum

Who was Kieron Saunders source for the ’heroin’ comment and NB found ’near telephone’ with ’seven’ gun shot wounds?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2020, 01:05:27 PM
I'm no lawyer, but I think IF (and it's a massive IF), he was successful via the CCRC, he was have to face a retrial and Julie (I am sure) would be called.

Why do you think she was released as a witness from the appeal hearing?

Lord Justice Kay, Mr Justice Wright and Mr Justice Henriques gave permission for her to be called, but no application was made for her to do so.
After the lunchtime adjournment, and following submissions from lawyers for both parties, she was released as a witness.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Maybe someone can post the front page of the Sun, which was published the day after the murders, on the forum

Who was Kieron Saunders source for the ’heroin’ comment and NB found ’near telephone’ with ’seven’ gun shot wounds?

This wreaks of Bamber

His psychopathic gaslighting was used on the police from the start, ‘as a specialized form of lying and manipulation’
and it’s not stopped since - which is another crime in itself

“Our society is moving in the direction of permitting, reinforcing, and in some cases actually valuing some of the traits listed in the Psychopathy Checklist.” —Robert Hare
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/communication-success/201810/7-characteristics-the-modern-psychopath
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on April 29, 2020, 01:32:01 PM
Why do you think she was released as a witness from the appeal hearing?

Lord Justice Kay, Mr Justice Wright and Mr Justice Henriques gave permission for her to be called, but no application was made for her to do so.
After the lunchtime adjournment, and following submissions from lawyers for both parties, she was released as a witness.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm

I think she was summonsed specifically to give evidence regarding her deal with the NOTW and her dealings with the bank.  The court was able to bat away these spurious points of the appeal on the evidence that had always existed so there was no need for her to give evidence.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2020, 02:35:35 PM
I think she was summonsed specifically to give evidence regarding her deal with the NOTW and her dealings with the bank.  The court was able to bat away these spurious points of the appeal on the evidence that had always existed so there was no need for her to give evidence.

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 29, 2020, 08:32:14 PM
My perception is my reality.

Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
9h
Was Sheila Caffell accidentally shot by firearms officers training at the scene at #WhiteHouseFarm?
“The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell 'the wound' had been inflicted by her own hand.” PC995 Norman Wright
The #JeremyBamber case
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/single-gunshot-wound-to-sheila
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on April 30, 2020, 03:12:15 AM
Why do you think she was released as a witness from the appeal hearing?

Lord Justice Kay, Mr Justice Wright and Mr Justice Henriques gave permission for her to be called, but no application was made for her to do so.
After the lunchtime adjournment, and following submissions from lawyers for both parties, she was released as a witness.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm

JB’s team didn’t want her to speak for obvious reasons...😌
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 30, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
JB’s team didn’t want her to speak for obvious reasons...😌

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 01, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
John Curtis - Jan 2015 ‘Righting Wrongs’
David Rose - Oct 2011 ‘If they didn't do it, who did?’
”Until today, the CCRC’s proceedings have taken place behind closed doors. Not any longer. Present while the four men weigh Hallam’s future are this reporter, and Live’s photographer. With the permission of Hallam and his family, we have been granted exclusive and unprecedented access.

“The CCRC has its critics. Meeting that ‘real possibility’ test through the discovery of fresh evidence or other compelling material not presented at a trial is not easy, and having considered more than 13,000 cases to date, the commission has referred only 478.

The legal academic Michael Naughton, of Bristol University, says the ‘real possibility’ test has made the commission overly timid, unwilling to risk referring a case where the outcome looks doubtful.

Yet to anyone who dealt with the system that existed to deal with alleged miscarriages of justice before the CCRC’s creation, it represents a significant advance. Before 1997 they were handled by a section of the Home Office, C3.

“Another prominent case is that of Jeremy Bamber, who was convicted in 1986 of murdering five members of his family in their farmhouse at Tolleshunt D’Arcy in Essex. The CCRC referred him to the Appeal Court in 2002, where he lost.

Earlier this year, having spent thousands of hours investigating a further application submitted by his lawyers, it reached a provisional decision that the points raised in this latest application were not compelling enough to meet the ‘real possibility’ test, though he still has a final chance to make further submissions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2042831/Not-jailed-murder-actually-committed-crime--meet-commission-helps-clear-them.html

David Rose, alongside Satish Sakar & George Gretton commented on a 2014 article by Jon Robins for The Justice Gap headed, ’IPSO: Will new press regulator prove to be another toothless poodle?

They stated,

Satish Sekar says:
September 28, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Where has self-regulation succeeded? It is designed to maintain control while giving the impression of dealing with complaints. The press and other media are far from alone in taking advantage of this. Only independent supervision and investigation of complaints can deliver impartiality.

David Rose says:
September 30, 2014 at 9:24 am
There is a huge problem with this argument: the basic premise that the notion of press “regulation” has any place in a democratic society. I accept there do need to be laws, some of which could be said to curb the absolute freedom of speech: against, for example, the publication of paedophile pornography, and – within strict limits – defamation.

But the point that Hacked Off and Evan Harris have always missed is that the phone hacking scandal never had anything to do with “regulators”, or the supposed failure of the old PCC. It involved law breaking, pure and simple, and the failure of the police to enforce the law – largely, it seems, because of the unhealthy relationship between senior figures at Scotland Yard and News International, as it then was.

We do not need a regulator. We need something like a US first amendment – not the watery substitute of the ECHR article 10, hedged as it is with crippling caveats. Hacked Off has simply never grasped what a free press means, and why any method used to curb it must be fraught with peri. The Royal Charter they support demonstrates this amply.

I have always argued that the Leveson inquiry was a preposterous, rigged, celebrity dog and pony show. It allowed “victims” to tell their stories on the basis that whatever they said must be true, without subjecting their assertions to any form of interrogation. Its truly terrible report has been justified by Hacked Off’s constant waving of the bloody shirt of egregious cases such as those of the McCanns. Hacked Off’s main spokesmen are a failed MP who was looking for a job and ought, as a supposed “Liberal Democrat”, to have known better (Harris) and a professor of journalism at a third rate university (Brian Cathcart). It’s time they stopped setting the terms of this debate. Too much is at stake.

The time has come to remember statements such as that of the Virginia legislature in 1776: “The freedom of the press is one of the greatest bulwarks of liberty, and can never be restrained but by despotic Governments.” Why is America, despite its flaws, a freer country than the UK? Because of this text: “Congress shall make no law… abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press.” IPSO, PCC, or some future Leveson-certified body: they can be loved only by those who appreciate the firm smack of authoritarian government and imposed conformity. We should reject them all.

Satish Sekar says:
October 1, 2014 at 8:16 am
And what should be done to control unethical journalism. I’m talking about sensational, misleading, inaccurate and ethical reporting. Journalism should never be a free pass to lie and deceive. At least two editions of a well respected allegedly investigative documentary series had preconceived agendas that had scant regard for the truth and its complaints system did nothing to investigate. It took the word of the journalists despite clear proof of wrongdoing. Press freedom must not become a justification or licence of media to abuse trust.

Satish Sekar says:
October 1, 2014 at 8:18 am
ethical should read unethical in the second sentence.

George Gretton says:
October 1, 2014 at 9:27 pm
YES!… Satish, Kindred Spirit.

I need add nothing. I will quote you.

“Press freedom must not become a justification or licence of media to abuse trust.”

ABUSE TRUST… you use the most fundamental and unambiguous language.

Thank you. I happen to have a Doctorate or three in what it is like to have one’s trust heinously betrayed.

Yours, George Gretton

George Gretton says:
October 1, 2014 at 8:39 am
Question: “Are all supposed journalists whiter that white individuals of impeccable ethics and integrity?”

Answer: “You cannot be serious!”

Question: “Why do the Laws of DEFAMATION exist?

Answer: “Because some really s..mmy and abusive s..mbags mendaciously ABUSED their right to Free Speech, so as to ABUSE others.”

Question: “Do individuals in the Psychopath / Sociopath spectrum exist in every walk of life, at all levels?”

Answer: “Yes”.

Question: “Is it wise to put any individual or group of individuals on a pedestal?”

Long Answer: “No; that’s bonkers.”
Yours, George
https://www.thejusticegap.com/ipso-will-new-press-regulator-prove-another-toothless-poodle/




Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 02, 2020, 06:07:21 AM
"Mr Bamber has an unrivalled knowledge of the case"  @)(++(*     Pull the other one!...

https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/colchester/18421158.jeremy-bamber-hearing-delayed/ (https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/colchester/18421158.jeremy-bamber-hearing-delayed/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:55:33 AM
"Mr Bamber has an unrivalled knowledge of the case"  @)(++(*     Pull the other one!...

https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/colchester/18421158.jeremy-bamber-hearing-delayed/ (https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/colchester/18421158.jeremy-bamber-hearing-delayed/)

Given he carried out the murders - Bamber does have ‘an unrivalled knowledge of the case’

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 02, 2020, 08:50:56 AM
Given he carried out the murders - Bamber does have ‘an unrivalled knowledge of the case’


His pathetic attempts to escape justice are as badly thought out as the murders he committed.

Even if there were 10 silencers in WHF (and Im sure Nevill had more than one over the years), that doesn’t prove a thing; nor does it disprove that the silencer he hid in the cupboard contained Sheila’s blood....

Tricky, eh?😌
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 02, 2020, 03:34:18 PM
Given he carried out the murders - Bamber does have ‘an unrivalled knowledge of the case’

A very good point. Perhaps the reason he resorts to peddling conspiracy fantasies and smearing witnesses is precisely because he knows his case very well.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 03:52:09 PM
Jeremy Bamber prison interview in full courtesy of Jim Shelly

LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993

This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.

How do you feel now about your conviction ?
“I still can’t understand why I was convicted. It seems incredible to me, eight years after it all happened, still fighting away. There’s so much they don’t want to reveal. So much that they say they didn’t do which would have established my innocence. Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely. But, as my dad always used to say to me when any injustice happened to me in my childhood: “don’t worry Jeremy, the truth always comes out in the wash.” I think now the people helping me have been able to put together a package which, the bottom line, as they say, is that it is unimaginable that I would have been convicted had this evidence been before the jury.”

How much trouble have you had from other inmates ?
“Um, pretty much none. Very little. I’ve obviously made one or two enemies over the years. I would say the majority of prisoners believe in me – after reading the paperwork, meeting me, quizzing me. The prison staff extend to me, personally, every facility that they can. Very friendly. It’s not the same in every jail, and not the same for every prisoner.”

Have you had any physical assaults ?
“One in Franklin – from a guard, not a prisoner. It was a Control and Restraint technique. I smashed up my cell and went on a shit protest. It was to do with my case – a daft protest really when I look back at it. I asked for it. Apart from that, in all these years, I’ve never been touched.”

What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”

There is conflicting evidence about her actual ability to have committed these crimes with that weapon.
“My own opinion is that she would have had no trouble.”

What about her actual experience ?
“I can’t say that she’d had any particular experience with that particular weapon. It’s not difficult, not sophisticated. They’re simple things to operate. If she’d watched a cowboy movie, it’s almost as simple as that.”

You believe that she committed those crimes using the silencer ?
(Pauses) “My own personal belief, I believe that that’s a complete red herring. I don’t have evidence one way or the other on that. Not hard evidence. I believe that she didn’t use the silencer.”

Do you see the spark of this crime being the possibility of her children being fostered out ?
“It was something that was discussed. That was one of the many, many options that were discussed over how best to help her. What were the outside pressures causing her such distress ?”

Do you have any regrets about the way you behaved around the time of the funeral ?
“No, because a lot of those things have been grossly exaggerated by the media. I was so devastated at the loss of my family, in a sense I was trying to buy love from my friends by happily picking up the tabs, spending money to buy their affection, because I needed their love. So, no, I don’t regret that… I didn’t do anything wrong.”

What about when you went on holiday ?
“That was just with Brett Collins – we stayed in a caravan, not an expensive holiday.”

Any other regrets ?
“Yes, I suppose I do regret things. Not understanding early enough what was really going on, with the family. Being too selfish, too involved with what I was doing. I wish I’d been a better brother. Maybe Sheila and my mum and dad and Daniel and Nicholas would still be alive. I look back now and say, well, so much disturbance, why didn’t I do more ?”

ends
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 04:55:26 PM
David Rose, alongside Satish Sakar & George Gretton commented on a 2014 article by Jon Robins for The Justice Gap headed, ’IPSO: Will new press regulator prove to be another toothless poodle?
https://www.thejusticegap.com/ipso-will-new-press-regulator-prove-another-toothless-poodle/

David Rose wrote an article headed, ‘Still fighting the complacency at the heart of our justice system’ in May 2016

He begins,

”Miscarriages of justice used to be big news, and investigating them commanded big media budgets. In the 1980s, both Granada and Yorkshire television invested heavily in the issue, making films with high production values and months of research devoted to the cases they chose to examine.

He goes on,

Back in that glorious day, Bob Woffinden, then a freelance writer, was sought out by a large, mainstream publisher, Hodder & Stoughton, and secured an advance for his first book, which came out in 1987. Entitled simply Miscarriages of Justice, it presented both compelling narratives, on cases including the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, and cogent analysis on where the system was going wrong.

Perhaps we were all just too successful.


One of the most heartbreaking concerns Gordon Park, convicted of killing his wife Carol after her body was found in Coniston Water in 1997, 21 years after she vanished. Woffinden shows that the evidence against him was exiguous, and manipulated both by the media and police.

Turns out it wasn’t after all

At the foot of the article

Satish Sekar says:
May 12, 2016 at 8:31 am
It is tragic that the criminal justice system has got away with this again and is a searing indictment of media that they have allowed it to happen. The situation is even worse as even when they do highlight a case they make a pig’s ear of it. Wasted opportunities are worst of all, as it is claimed the issue has been covered. In fact, it has been taken off the agenda as planned.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:20:27 PM
Desperate times

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:27:18 PM
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

Did you used to talk to Bamber about the above Aunt Agatha?

What did he think?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:29:53 PM

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

At least you have admitted you know SC wasn’t responsible and the evidence doesn’t point to her
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 02, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
Desperate times

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198)

And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago  *&^^&
Is that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 06:38:26 PM
Is that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:40:34 PM
Is that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!

Aunt Agatha
Nevill knew something!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp


Claims police covered up historical child sex abuse by MPs and officers investigated - 2015
Claims that police attempted to cover up MPs’ involvement in child sex abuse dating back to the 1970s are being investigated.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has announced 13 further investigations into allegations of historical corruption in the Metropolitan Police and Essex Police.
Among the dozen allegations relating to Scotland Yard are claims that the prosecution of an unnamed government official for possessing indecent images of children was dropped on the order of senior officers.
Several investigations  were allegedly shut down by “high-ranking” officers, while crucial evidence relating to child abuse involving politicians, council officers and police went missing in several cases.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 06:41:05 PM
Did you used to talk to Bamber about the above Aunt Agatha?

What did he think?



Yes I did.  Its always been my theory. Always!!

Jeremy  doesn't know what his father knew.  But of course  Neveille knew what was going on with these sick paedos and that got Neveille killed.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:42:37 PM


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp

Are you on twitter Aunt Agatha ?

And have you heard of Carl Beech ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:43:19 PM


Yes I did.  Its always been my theory. Always!!

Jeremy  doesn't know what his father knew.  But of course  Neveille knew what was going on with these sick paedos and that got Neveille killed.

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 06:45:47 PM
Are you on twitter Aunt Agatha ?

And have you heard of Carl Beech ?



Forget Carl Beech.
He was used as an example to any others who dared to claim rape against these evil,  sick b........s!!

Do some proper bloody research.

Whitehall is full of them!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 06:46:16 PM
Is that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!


It's vomit inducing.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:47:09 PM


Forget Carl Beech.
He was used as an example to any others who dared to claim rape against these evil, dick badtards!!

Do some proper bloody research.

Whitehall is full of them!!

What’s Bamber’s research uncovered on this?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 02, 2020, 06:47:31 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp)
They didn't manage to put a cork in Stan Jones' mouth for detecting the real culprit!...

https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/di-david-bright-on-dsgt-stan-jones-essex-police (https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/di-david-bright-on-dsgt-stan-jones-essex-police)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 06:47:52 PM
April.  Neveille was a hit job!

Not by Jeremy!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:49:00 PM
April.  Neveille was a hit job!

Not by Jeremy!!

Who by AA ?

MI5 ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 06:50:26 PM
I do not know exactly what person he had evidence on, but listen to whistle blowers, stating they even covered up for paedos, when it was needed.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:51:07 PM
I do not know exactly what person he had evidence on, but listen to whistle blowers, stating they even covered up for paedos, when it was needed.

If Bamber had evidence on these people why didn’t he advance his knowledge? Pass it on to someone ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:51:38 PM
I do not know exactly what person he had evidence on, but listen to whistle blowers, stating they even covered up for paedos, when it was needed.

What whistle blowers - who do you mean?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 06:52:29 PM
I do not know exactly what person he had evidence on, but listen to whistle blowers, stating they even covered up for paedos, when it was needed.

Who are you talking about?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 02, 2020, 06:54:23 PM
April.  Neveille was a hit job!

Not by Jeremy!!

How would "they" have known that "they" could use the Bambers' own gun?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 02, 2020, 06:57:33 PM
How would "they" have known that "they" could use the Bambers' own gun?
It's a fair point. Even the most junior of hitmen tend to bring a weapon along.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 02, 2020, 06:57:49 PM

It's vomit inducing.
If ever there was a contrived scenario for passing the buck, that must surely take first prize!

And not a squeak out of Bamber for 35 years that anything so utterly stupefying ever happened.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:04:08 PM
Desperate times

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago  *&^^&

 &%%6
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:08:46 PM

In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison.  He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors. 
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent.  He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.

We have  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:17:38 PM
If ever there was a contrived scenario for passing the buck, that must surely take first prize!

And not a squeak out of Bamber for 35 years that anything so utterly stupefying ever happened.

Am guessing AA received a similar type letter to what he sent MT?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:26:34 PM
Look at this. Look what they could do.

https://youtu.be/S8BJptvxCl8
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
It's a fair point. Even the most junior of hitmen tend to bring a weapon along.


It could not look like an outsider did the hit.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
That's why when at the seaside I always take care to roll up BOTH trouser legs. If I only roll up one then before I know it I'm surrounded by men with one trouser leg rolled up

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg150079.html#msg150079

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:40:51 PM
That's why when at the seaside I always take care to roll up BOTH trouser legs. If I only roll up one then before I know it I'm surrounded by men with one trouser leg rolled up

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg150079.html#msg150079

 @)(++(*

I honestly do believe, based on my early conversations with Jeremy, before the rest of the info was given to us, purely as a distraction, that thus was a prefessiinal job done made to look like Jeremy did it.
It makes sense.
Someone at the window.
Talking to someone in the house.
The figure seen in the fields running away from the direction of the house.
The delayed entrance by firearms unit.
Having Jeremy call the police in.
Why Neveille phoned Jeremy and not the police.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:42:32 PM
I honestly do believe, based on my early conversations with Jeremy, before the rest of the info was given to us, purely as a distraction, that thus was a prefessiinal job done made to look like Jeremy did it.
It makes sense.
Someone at the window.
Talking to someone in the house.
The figure seen in the fields running away from the direction of the house.
The delayed entrance by firearms unit.
Having Jeremy call the police in.
Why Neveille phoned Jeremy and not the police.

I’m sure you do

Btw that watch you’ve got is a fake
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:43:28 PM
If ever there was a contrived scenario for passing the buck, that must surely take first prize!

And not a squeak out of Bamber for 35 years that anything so utterly stupefying ever happened.

Jeremy doesn't know. He was outside with the police.

For his defence, he would not have any idea whatsoever that people in high places do such wicked things.

He couldn't use it then however with all we know about those elites now, it makes good defense. Its proving it!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:45:56 PM
I’m sure you do

Btw that watch you’ve got is a fake

Well, I think you're of a minority here and I don't give a damn what you think about the watch.  It's pure distraction.

Jeremy is innocent!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:46:55 PM
Well, I think you're of a minority here and I don't give a damn what you think about the watch.  It's pure distraction.

Jeremy is innocent!!

I agree
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 07:47:31 PM
I honestly do believe, based on my early conversations with Jeremy, before the rest of the info was given to us, purely as a distraction, that thus was a prefessiinal job done made to look like Jeremy did it.
It makes sense.
Someone at the window.
Talking to someone in the house.
The figure seen in the fields running away from the direction of the house.
The delayed entrance by firearms unit.
Having Jeremy call the police in.
Why Neveille phoned Jeremy and not the police.

Sorry AA - I don't buy that - where did this person go? Nevill said ;Sheila' has got the gun. I don't blieve there was any figure running away and there was no talking to anyone in the house.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 07:50:11 PM
Desperate times

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago  *&^^&

Did Jeremy tell you any of this AA?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:50:46 PM
Sorry AA - I don't buy that - where did this person go? Nevill said ;Sheila' has got the gun. I don't blieve there was any figure running away and there was no talking to anyone in the house.

If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.

The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:51:44 PM
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.

The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.

So you used to talk to Bamber about this and he thought the same?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 07:52:53 PM
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.

The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.

Did Jeremy actually tell you this?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 07:54:20 PM
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.

The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.

I'm sorry that makes no sense at all because the so called hitman would have to be a complete idiot. How could they possibly know that Jeremy wouldn't cal; the police and that they would be trapped inside WHF - which is indeed what happened, so where did they go? You can believe that the police spotted someone scarpering and just let them go? I suspect Jeremy told you some of this?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:55:21 PM
Did Jeremy tell you any of this AA?


I feel he was too frightened too discuss it too much or go public incase they got to him.  He has seen what they did to his while family.  He would then become the target!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 07:57:22 PM
I'm sorry that makes no sense at all because the so called hitman would have to be a complete idiot. How could they possibly know that Jeremy wouldn't cal; the police and that they would be trapped inside WHF - which is indeed what happened, so where did they go? You can believe that the police spotted someone scarpering and just let them go? I suspect Jeremy told you some of this?

That was part of the plan. The police had to be called. To stage the house and keep Jeremy out.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 07:57:33 PM
Well, I think you're of a minority here and I don't give a damn what you think about the watch.  It's pure distraction.

Jeremy is innocent!!


I wonder from whom it was you were given this information? I suspect it must have been Jeremy -and if he was privy to such information before the murders, he'd have done better to have done something about it rather than putting his energies into being a playboy drug dealer. I believe he's done a wonderful of job blinding you to reality, for which I'm truly sorry.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 07:57:54 PM

I feel he was too frightened too discuss it too much or go public incase they got to him.  He has seen what they did to his while family.  He would then become the target!

But he told you?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 02, 2020, 08:02:15 PM
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.

The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.

I wonder why they didn't let Nevill tell Jeremy more information such as, "come quickly and don't call the police", and then leave the door open for him to get in?

Seems like Jimmy Savile hired some amateurs for the job   

I have to say though, this is the most plausible explanation for Jeremy's innocence that I've ever heard. 

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:06:39 PM

I wonder from whom it was you were given this information? I suspect it must have been Jeremy -and if he was privy to such information before the murders, he'd have done better to have done something about it rather than putting his energies into being a playboy drug dealer. I believe he's done a wonderful of job blinding you to reality, for which I'm truly sorry.

Maybe easier now to understand how and why JM didn’t go to the police sooner ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 08:10:16 PM
That was part of the plan. The police had to be called. To stage the house and keep Jeremy out.

But the hitman is now trapped in the house? Also, if this was the case and all Jeremy knew was that he received a call asking him to 'come quick etc.' - how would he know the plan? He knows about a plan that no one told him about?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:10:56 PM

I feel he was too frightened too discuss it too much or go public incase they got to him.  He has seen what they did to his while family.  He would then become the target!

Did Bamber tell you it wasn’t his sister?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:14:37 PM
I wonder why they didn't let Nevill tell Jeremy more information such as, "come quickly and don't call the police", and then leave the door open for him to get in?

Seems like Jimmy Savile hired some amateurs for the job   

I have to say though, this is the most plausible explanation for Jeremy's innocence that I've ever heard.


The police had to be called.  Jeremy is not going to go to the house without calling the police.  Both Jeremy and the police had to be on site at the same time to frame Jeremy.  If Jeremy wasn’t framed people would be looking for someone else.  Whoever oversaw the immediate operation, ensured that things where in place, or as much as could be.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 08:15:45 PM
Maybe easier now to understand how and why JM didn’t go to the police sooner ?


If he'd stuffed her full of the rubbish he'd told AA, Yes, I can fully understand. The poor girl would have been terrified of the repercussions to her.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:18:09 PM
Did Bamber tell you it wasn’t his sister?


Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.

He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.

Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:19:06 PM

Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.

He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.

Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.

Come on - If that were true AA why did he blame his sister?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:19:41 PM

Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.

He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.

Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.

What falsified evidence ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:19:59 PM
Did Jeremy actually tell you this?


This was early days. We I’d t know but we questioned whether someone else could have done it, yes. However, Jeremy knew he was innocent but had no idea who or how he was framed.

By proving Sheila could not have committed the crime, Jeremy was found guilty by default.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:20:37 PM

Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.

He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.

Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.

If he didn’t know who did it he should have told the police that - not you
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 08:21:41 PM

This was early days. We I’d t know but we questioned whether someone else could have done it, yes. However, Jeremy knew he was innocent but had no idea who or how he was framed.

By proving Sheila could not have committed the crime, Jeremy was found guilty by default.

But he told you his dad was in the Masons?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:22:10 PM

This was early days. We I’d t know but we questioned whether someone else could have done it, yes. However, Jeremy knew he was innocent but had no idea who or how he was framed.

By proving Sheila could not have committed the crime, Jeremy was found guilty by default.

You didn’t know him in the early days - you met him years later when he had no one
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 02, 2020, 08:22:54 PM

The police had to be called.  Jeremy is not going to go to the house without calling the police.  Both Jeremy and the police had to be on site at the same time to frame Jeremy.  If Jeremy wasn’t framed people would be looking for someone else.  Whoever oversaw the immediate operation, ensured that things where in place, or as much as could be.

But apparently, Nevill didn't tell Bamber to call the police, just to "come quick."

Oh blimey, Aunty Aggs.


 *&^^&       8(8-))
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:23:09 PM
What falsified evidence ?


The silencer for one.

Jeremys character has been torn to pieces, he isNOT the man he is portrayed to be.  This had to be done to ensure the jury found him guilty. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:23:16 PM
But he told you his dad was in the Masons?

His dad was in the RAF Caroline
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:24:00 PM

The silencer for one.

Jeremys character has been torn to pieces, he isNOT the man he is portrayed to be.  This had to be done to ensure the jury found him guilty.

What had to be done?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:25:41 PM
If he didn’t know who did it he should have told the police that - not you



He did!  That was part of his defence.  He couldn’t prove it was anybody else he was too busy trying to defend himself.  He told everybody he was innocent.  He didn’t know whether Sheila did it or not.  He only knew what he was told.

He was just the patsy.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 02, 2020, 08:26:01 PM

Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.

He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.

Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.

so was Julie Mugford part of this operation to frame Jeremy from the beginning or was she threatened to force her to tell her lies later?

Do you think it's wise even talking about this in case they know you are on to them? I wouldn't want you having an "accident"
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:26:12 PM
But he told you his dad was in the Masons?


Yes he did!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:27:31 PM
You didn’t know him in the early days - you met him years later when he had no one


Early days compared to everyone else.  I knew him in 1990.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:27:56 PM


He did!  That was part of his defence.  He couldn’t prove it was anybody else he was too busy trying to defend himself.  He told everybody he was innocent.  He didn’t know whether Sheila did it or not.  He only knew what he was told.

He was just the patsy.

If he didn’t know ‘whether Sheila did it or not’ then it couldn’t have been a hitman could it ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 08:28:28 PM

Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.

He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.

Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.


Well, if it wasn't Jeremy who gave you the information, it means that someone else -in a high place?- knew about it, too, and it wouldn't have been Nevill. Had it been, Jeremy wouldn't have been living his playboy life style.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:28:35 PM

Early days compared to everyone else.  I knew him in 1990.

So he wasn’t with Anji anymore then ?

Did he tell you why they’d split up?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:30:43 PM
But apparently, Nevill didn't tell Bamber to call the police, just to "come quick."

Oh blimey, Aunty Aggs.


 *&^^&       8(8-))


His father never stated come over your sister has gone beserk.

He stated she had a gun!

That’s enough for someone to call the police. I think Neville was told to say what he said, in the tone that he did, knowing it would freak Jeremy and he’d call the police.  (Freak are my words, not jeremys before anyone picks me up on it.)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:32:23 PM
What had to be done?


Character assassination. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:32:46 PM

His father never stated come over your sister has gone beserk.

He stated she had a gun!

That’s enough for someone to call the police. I think Neville was told to say what he said, in the tone that he did, knowing it would freak Jeremy and he’d call the police.  (Freak are my words, not jeremys before anyone picks me up on it.)

SHE as in a women not his sister ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 08:33:18 PM

Early days compared to everyone else.  I knew him in 1990.


So really, you have NO idea of who he was prior to the murders. You know only what he's chosen to tell you.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:34:29 PM
so was Julie Mugford part of this operation to frame Jeremy from the beginning or was she threatened to force her to tell her lies later?

Do you think it's wise even talking about this in case they know you are on to them? I wouldn't want you having an "accident"



I cannot prove any of it.  I’m no threat. 

As for Julie, as I have no idea but I do believe Jeremy when he told me he did not phone her saying tonight is the night...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:35:27 PM
If he didn’t know ‘whether Sheila did it or not’ then it couldn’t have been a hitman could it ?


Please, stop asking stupid questions.

I’ve already stated, he never knew what happened.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:35:35 PM


I cannot prove any of it.  I’m no threat. 

As for Julie, as I have no idea but I do believe Jeremy when he told me he did not phone her saying tonight is the night...

What about Anji ?

Was she a plant ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:36:33 PM

Please, stop asking stupid questions.

I’ve already stated, he never knew what happened.

He did know what happened Aunt Agatha - sadly you’ve been conned
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 08:37:02 PM

His father never stated come over your sister has gone beserk.

He stated she had a gun!

That’s enough for someone to call the police. I think Neville was told to say what he said, in the tone that he did, knowing it would freak Jeremy and he’d call the police.  (Freak are my words, not jeremys before anyone picks me up on it.)


But it didn't freak him out, did it? He took the best part of 20 minutes and a phone call to Julie before he did.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:37:53 PM

Well, if it wasn't Jeremy who gave you the information, it means that someone else -in a high place?- knew about it, too, and it wouldn't have been Nevill. Had it been, Jeremy wouldn't have been living his playboy life style.


You’re twisting things!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 02, 2020, 08:38:56 PM
Come on - If that were true AA why did he blame his sister?

Because he was told that his sister had the gun?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:39:14 PM

You’re twisting things!

I’d like to know how Anji fits into all this because I’m guessing  he must have told her something similar to you ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:40:10 PM
SHE as in a women not his sister ?


PLEASE!! She meaning is sister. For goodness sake.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 08:43:51 PM

PLEASE!! She meaning is sister. For goodness sake.

Did you ever speak to Anji ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:44:22 PM
What about Anji ?

Was she a plant ?


This is my theory....it’s always been my theory from the beginning.  Nothing else ever made sense.  I sat with Jeremy almost every weekend for years....we discussed many things.  I spoke to him on the phone daily for about 18 years.   (that approx, don’t have me looking for exact dates),

So yes, I do know him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 08:45:13 PM

PLEASE!! She meaning is sister. For goodness sake.


Why did he not use this knowledge/why is he not now using this knowledge, as part of his defence.?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:47:24 PM

But it didn't freak him out, did it? He took the best part of 20 minutes and a phone call to Julie before he did.


He did not phone Julie.

He was told the police where on their way.  He was told to hang back. He drove there and a police car passed him on the way, speeding by.  He had no idea what he was driving into and didn’t want to get caught speeding too.  He was completely thrown by the phone call and did what he was told to do.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 08:50:07 PM

This is my theory....it’s always been my theory from the beginning.  Nothing else ever made sense.  I sat with Jeremy almost every weekend for years....we discussed many things.  I spoke to him on the phone daily for about 18 years.   (that approx, don’t have me looking for exact dates),

So yes, I do know him.


Please forgive me when I say that you only know of him what he's told you. You didn't know him -or his family- at all until 1990. I'm assuming that you and he were alone -other than a guard?- when these conversations happened? Such would be a perfect setting for weaving fantastic stories, as he had your full attention.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:50:15 PM

Why did he not use this knowledge/why is he not now using this knowledge, as part of his defence.?


I have no idea what he’s using.

I’m fed up of the bloody CT f..king this up and this man needs to be removed from jail and this is only my theory. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 08:55:06 PM

He did not phone Julie.

He was told the police where on their way.  He was told to hang back. He drove there and a police car passed him on the way, speeding by.  He had no idea what he was driving into and didn’t want to get caught speeding too.  He was completely thrown by the phone call and did what he was told to do.


But he did. HE said he did. Julie's friend, who took the call, said he did. Julie said he did.

Re the police car. It was on an emergency shout. It would have been speeding. It was way ahead of Jeremy. How would they have caught him for speeding when they were in front of him on an urgent mission?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 08:57:57 PM

But he did. HE said he did. Julie's friend, who took the call, said he did. Julie said he did.

Re the police car. It was on an emergency shout. It would have been speeding. It was way ahead of Jeremy. How would they have caught him for speeding when they were in front of him on an urgent mission?


He did not phone Julie stating he was going to kill his family!

And he was overtaken by a police car.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 02, 2020, 08:59:16 PM

This is my theory....it’s always been my theory from the beginning.  Nothing else ever made sense.  I sat with Jeremy almost every weekend for years....we discussed many things.  I spoke to him on the phone daily for about 18 years.   (that approx, don’t have me looking for exact dates),

So yes, I do know him.
Daily, for 18 years?  You visited him every weekend for years?  Were you in love?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 02, 2020, 09:01:49 PM

This is my theory....it’s always been my theory from the beginning.  Nothing else ever made sense.  I sat with Jeremy almost every weekend for years....we discussed many things.  I spoke to him on the phone daily for about 18 years.   (that approx, don’t have me looking for exact dates),

So yes, I do know him.

How can someone like you (and Daisy) get suckered in by this worthless piece of crap? Did he defend you when Mrs Blobby and her gang began attacking you? No, he sided with them.

Aggy, you are far too good for him. And I think you know it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:02:14 PM
Daily, for 18 years?  You visited him every weekend for years?  Were you in love?



Yes
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 09:04:00 PM

He did not phone Julie stating he was going to kill his family!

And he was overtaken by a police car.



So is it being suggested that Julie lied about the first call? Is it being suggested Julie was a part of the conspiracy you believe occurred? Yes, I agree that he was overtaken by a police car. Under the circumstances, I believe, at the speed they'd have been travelling, it's reasonable. What isn't is why he slowed down when it was obvious they were going to the same destination. No one would have questioned his need to get there.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 09:12:30 PM

He did not phone Julie.

He was told the police where on their way.  He was told to hang back. He drove there and a police car passed him on the way, speeding by.  He had no idea what he was driving into and didn’t want to get caught speeding too.  He was completely thrown by the phone call and did what he was told to do.

He did phone Julie AA
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:13:03 PM
How can someone like you (and Daisy) get suckered in by this worthless piece of crap? Did he defend you when Mrs Blobby and her gang began attacking you? No, he sided with them.

Aggy, you are far too good for him. And I think you know it.



It’s not like that. Seriously.

It wasn’t about sides.  He wanted to protect me as much as possible.  I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days.  We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.

Those who came in later wanted to campaign for him....I never got involved for a long time.  Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out and I became a target and they attacked me online.
They had to get rid of me if they were ever to get close to him.  They told him lies about me, falsified an account of mine then sent him all this false evidence.

I’ve always stated, he had no access to the outside world and could only go on the information he was receiving and lots of bamberettes were encouraged to write to him showing false messages supposedly written by me.

Jeremy and I had disagreements about it, I protested my innocence but it was just my voice against many others, doing a character assassination on me.

I couldn’t cope with it all and stepped down. I acted off feeling I’d done my stint, it’s maybe time for others to take the lead.

With a broken heart, I stepped back. 

He never betrayed me as such.  The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it.  He was shocked by it all, saddened but he had to make the best decision for him. He had to get out of prison and I respected his decision.

So, I walked away.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 09:14:09 PM

I have no idea what he’s using.

I’m fed up of the bloody CT f....ing this up and this man needs to be removed from jail and this is only my theory.

In order to have a theory like that AA, Jeremy would have had to have told you his dad was in the masons?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:14:35 PM
He did phone Julie AA


He did, but not stating he was going to kill the family.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:18:12 PM


So is it being suggested that Julie lied about the first call? Is it being suggested Julie was a part of the conspiracy you believe occurred? Yes, I agree that he was overtaken by a police car. Under the circumstances, I believe, at the speed they'd have been travelling, it's reasonable. What isn't is why he slowed down when it was obvious they were going to the same destination. No one would have questioned his need to get there.


April, I have no idea what the CT are suggesting. I have not looked at his case since I walked away. I’ve never read all the forensics either as I have always believed it to be smoke and mirrors. 

People did lie. Forensics were falsified. Photos and evidence have been withheld.  And my theory, in all this time, still explains to me how everything fits in according to information received at trial and info that has surfaced since.

He didn’t do it. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 09:19:05 PM


It’s not like that. Seriously.

It wasn’t about sides.  He wanted to protect me as much as possible.  I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days.  We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.

Those who came in later wanted to campaign for him....I never got involved for a long time.  Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out and I became a target and they attacked me online.
They had to get rid of me if they were ever to get close to him.  They told him lies about me, falsified an account of mine then sent him all this false evidence.

I’ve always stated, he had no access to the outside world and could only go on the information he was receiving and lots of bamberettes were encouraged to write to him showing false messages supposedly written by me.

Jeremy and I had disagreements about it, I protested my innocence but it was just my voice against many others, doing a character assassination on me.

I couldn’t cope with it all and stepped down. I acted off feeling I’d done my stint, it’s maybe time for others to take the lead.

With a broken heart, I stepped back. 

He never betrayed me as such.  The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it.  He was shocked by it all, saddened but he had to make the best decision for him. He had to get out of prison and I respected his decision.

So, I walked away.

AA if you mind me asking, how/why did you initially contact he?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:20:50 PM
In order to have a theory like that AA, Jeremy would have had to have told you his dad was in the masons?



Yes he did. I’ve stat3d that many times over the years Caroline.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 02, 2020, 09:26:33 PM
This all makes perfect sense to me.

Having the press run stories about how Sheila did it was never going to be believed, Jeremy had to be the patsy or the whole operation would have been exposed.

Clearly, the twins never died and were taken away to be abused and replaced with corpses from the local morgue.

I bet Taff Jones didn't have an accident either, he was killed because he wouldn't play along.

Margaret Thatcher was a friend of Jimmy Savile, you only have to join the dots to see how this goes to the very top. I bet Prince Andrew is involved somewhere too. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:27:17 PM
AA if you mind me asking, how/why did you initially contact he?



I was at a dinner in central london for business woman of the year (I was only a guest, nothing more).

At the table I was sat with someone who worked at the solicitor’s defending him.  As a teenager I wanted to be a solicitor but my family couldn’t afford it, so I couldn’t follow my dream.

We sat and discussed jeremys case as When I followed the case on the news it didn’t add up. I was curious. I’d never heard of a miscarriage of justice and I asked if I could write to him.  I really had no other motive than to know the truth I suppose...I don’t know.

So I wrote to him.  I gave the solicitors address. He replied and we carried on writing. I eventually gave my own address and it went from there.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 02, 2020, 09:32:22 PM


I was at a dinner in central london for business woman of the year (I was only a guest, nothing more).

At the table I was sat with someone who worked at the solicitor’s defending him.  As a teenager I wanted to be a solicitor but my family couldn’t afford it, so I couldn’t follow my dream.

We sat and discussed jeremys case as When I followed the case on the news it didn’t add up. I was curious. I’d never heard of a miscarriage of justice and I asked if I could write to him.  I really had no other motive than to know the truth I suppose...I don’t know.

So I wrote to him.  I gave the solicitors address. He replied and we carried on writing. I eventually gave my own address and it went from there.

Thank you AA
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:35:12 PM
Thank you AA


You’re welcome.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 09:43:49 PM


It’s not like that. Seriously.

It wasn’t about sides.  He wanted to protect me as much as possible.  I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days.  We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.

Those who came in later wanted to campaign for him....I never got involved for a long time.  Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out and I became a target and they attacked me online.
They had to get rid of me if they were ever to get close to him.  They told him lies about me, falsified an account of mine then sent him all this false evidence.

I’ve always stated, he had no access to the outside world and could only go on the information he was receiving and lots of bamberettes were encouraged to write to him showing false messages supposedly written by me.

Jeremy and I had disagreements about it, I protested my innocence but it was just my voice against many others, doing a character assassination on me.

I couldn’t cope with it all and stepped down. I acted off feeling I’d done my stint, it’s maybe time for others to take the lead.

With a broken heart, I stepped back. 

He never betrayed me as such.  The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it.  He was shocked by it all, saddened but he had to make the best decision for him. He had to get out of prison and I respected his decision.

So, I walked away.

?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:48:12 PM
?



Yes we did.  We had an officer maybe at one end of the room, sat quite a distance and we were able to do what we wanted, within reason of course.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 09:51:49 PM


It’s not like that. Seriously.

It wasn’t about sides.  He wanted to protect me as much as possible.  I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days.  We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.

He’s a psychopath AA

He wanted to protect himself
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 09:55:53 PM
He’s a psychopath AA

He wanted to protect himself


In my honest opinion, he’s not.  I wouldn’t have spent 18yrs with him if I thought he was.

Don’t believe everything you read.

It’s all part of the character assassination.  Smoke and mirrors.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 10:01:04 PM

Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out

Can you remember what it was ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 10:09:24 PM


The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it.  He was shocked by it all, saddened

What did Bamber tell you they were saying about you ?

And why was he shocked and saddened ? About what?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:13:29 PM
Can you remember what it was ?




No
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:15:45 PM
What did Bamber tell you they were saying about you ?

And why was he shocked and saddened ? About what?




I don't know exactly what they said, he wouldn't tell me. He didn't want to upset me more than I already was..

Why do you think he was saddened.?  Don't waste my time with silly questions.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:18:37 PM
BBC Journalist Anna Brees detailing how she started waking up.

Jeremy and I had no idea such things were going on in the world.

I doubt he has any idea that it's all exposed now and how people have come forward telling their stories of abuse by these people.  I think his father knew something....

https://youtu.be/Dhhtz0D_Kiw
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 10:21:15 PM
What did Bamber tell you they were saying about you ?

And why was he shocked and saddened ? About what?




I don't know exactly what they said, he wouldn't tell me. He didn't want to upset me more than I already was..

Why dyou think he was saddened.?  Don't waste my time with silly questions.


So, it seems he told you he was made privy to things you'd allegedly said, but refused to tell you what it was that you'd supposedly said. How, then, was it possible to defend yourself against those claims and accusations?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 10:23:48 PM

In my honest opinion, he’s not. 

What do you think a psychopath is ?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:27:05 PM

So, it seems he told you he was made privy to things you'd allegedly said, but refused to tell you what it was that you'd supposedly said. How, then, was it possible to defend yourself against those claims and accusations?



Exactly!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:28:20 PM
What do you think a psychopath is ?



I just need to look all through your notes, you’ve written about it so much!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 10:29:52 PM
BBC Journalist Anna Brees detailing how she started waking up.

Jeremy and I had no idea such things were going on in the world.

I doubt he has any idea that it's all exposed now and how people have come forward telling their stories of abuse by these people.  I think his father knew something....

https://youtu.be/Dhhtz0D_Kiw


Forgive me, AA, but I can't help but notice how often you refer to "Jeremy and I" and talk about "We" almost as if you and he were locked up together, but you weren't and never were, save for your visits. After that you were free to live your life. Did you never take what he told you into your world, beyond the prison to try to verify what he'd said?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 02, 2020, 10:34:32 PM

In my honest opinion, he’s not.  I wouldn’t have spent 18yrs with him if I thought he was.

Don’t believe everything you read.

It’s all part of the character assassination.  Smoke and mirrors.

AA.  Maybe the label psychopath isn't strictly correct if applied to Jeremy Bamber but then what do you call someone who murders their entire family including two young boys in cold blood?

I can think of a few adjectives to describe him most of which are too offensive to post here.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 10:36:52 PM


Exactly!!


I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:39:06 PM

Forgive me, AA, but I can't help but notice how often you refer to "Jeremy and I" and talk about "We" almost as if you and he were locked up together, but you weren't and never were, save for your visits. After that you were free to live your life. Did you never take what he told you into your world, beyond the prison to try to verify what he'd said?


‘We’ as it was just him and I. There was campaign team, no supporters, no one to talk to. It was just no us. That’s what I mean by ‘we’.   


Of course I took my info with me but I was not going to be distracted by all the evidence to try and prove what I believed was impossible to prove.

If I go down the road of others, I have to prove jeremys innocence by proving Sheila guilty.  What is neither of them were guilty.  Jeremy even found it difficult to believe his sister could do such a thing.

Therefore, I cannot prove Sheila did it, neither could anybody really prove Jeremy did it.  Nothing forensically states categorically that he did it, taking into account the latest forensically tests we have, which is why he will take any test you want.  Nothing forensically has come up to cement his guilt...nothing at all.  Because it can’the didn’t do it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 10:40:28 PM

I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.

Things were said April

Does Yvonne live in Scotland AA? Or is that someone else?



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:40:59 PM

I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.



I know for a fact things were said.  It was all online.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 02, 2020, 10:42:45 PM

I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.

Clearly they needed AA out of the way because she knows the real truth so they poisoned Jeremy's mind and took over.  The CT are nothing more than double agents with a secret agenda to keep Jeremy in prison - which can be proven by their actions.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 10:45:02 PM
How did the campaign start AA - via Mike T?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:45:09 PM
Things were said April



I have no idea who Yvonne is.
Does Yvonne live in Scotland AA? Or is that someone else?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 10:49:17 PM
How did the campaign start AA - via Mike T?



I have no idea how it started, or who started it first. I only became aware of these things by accident, online.  I was separate. Jeremy kept me private as I think he intuitively knew they would target me if they knew I existed.

As I said, I stupidly opens my mouth first and that started the attacks.  With hindsight, Jeremy was only trying to protect me. I just couldn't see it at the time.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 02, 2020, 10:50:23 PM

‘We’ as it was just him and I. There was campaign team, no supporters, no one to talk to. It was just us. That’s what I mean by ‘we’.   


Of course I took my info with me but I was not going to be distracted by all the evidence to try and prove what I believed was impossible to prove.

If I go down the road of others, I have to prove jeremys innocence by proving Sheila guilty.  What is neither of them were guilty.  Jeremy even found it difficult to believe his sister could do such a thing.

Therefore, I cannot prove Sheila did it, neither could anybody really prove Jeremy did it.  Nothing forensically states categorically that he did it, taking into account the latest forensically tests we have, which is why he will take any test you want.  Nothing forensically has come up to cement his guilt...nothing at all.  Because it can’the didn’t do it.


A story certainly seems to have been told which has made it impossible for you to try to move in any direction.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 11:27:29 PM

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

Did Bamber tell you all this AA and did you and him used to talk about this ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 11:32:22 PM


Forget Carl Beech.
He was used as an example to any others who dared to claim rape against these evil,  sick b......s!!

Do some proper bloody research.

Whitehall is full of them!!

Carl Beech is a convicted liar, fraudster and paedophile
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 02, 2020, 11:49:17 PM
Carl Beech is a convicted liar, fraudster and paedophile



Carl Beech has been used to highlight what happens to those who dare to seek justice, exposing those abusers in the upper class system.  Unless, you really look into, he is guilty. Dig deeper and you will find what you're not being told.

This is what I believe Nevill knew.  Somebody in high office has been a naughty boy and to ensure this secret never sees the light of day, Neveille is killed and Jeremy is given a whole life tarrif.   
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 02, 2020, 11:57:21 PM


Carl Beech has been used to highlight what happens to those who dare to seek justice, exposing those abusers in the upper class system.  Unless, you really look into, he is guilty. Dig deeper and you will find what you're not being told.

This is what I believe Nevill knew.  Somebody in high office has been a naughty boy and to ensure this secret never sees the light of day, Neveille is killed and Jeremy is given a whole life tarrif.

This is nonsense AA



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 12:16:30 AM
Jeremy Bamber prison interview in full courtesy of Jim Shelly

LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993

This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.

How do you feel now about your conviction ?
“I still can’t understand why I was convicted. It seems incredible to me, eight years after it all happened, still fighting away. There’s so much they don’t want to reveal. So much that they say they didn’t do which would have established my innocence. Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely. But, as my dad always used to say to me when any injustice happened to me in my childhood: “don’t worry Jeremy, the truth always comes out in the wash.” I think now the people helping me have been able to put together a package which, the bottom line, as they say, is that it is unimaginable that I would have been convicted had this evidence been before the jury.”

How much trouble have you had from other inmates ?
“Um, pretty much none. Very little. I’ve obviously made one or two enemies over the years. I would say the majority of prisoners believe in me – after reading the paperwork, meeting me, quizzing me. The prison staff extend to me, personally, every facility that they can. Very friendly. It’s not the same in every jail, and not the same for every prisoner.”

Have you had any physical assaults ?
“One in Franklin – from a guard, not a prisoner. It was a Control and Restraint technique. I smashed up my cell and went on a shit protest. It was to do with my case – a daft protest really when I look back at it. I asked for it. Apart from that, in all these years, I’ve never been touched.”

What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”

There is conflicting evidence about her actual ability to have committed these crimes with that weapon.
“My own opinion is that she would have had no trouble.”

What about her actual experience ?
“I can’t say that she’d had any particular experience with that particular weapon. It’s not difficult, not sophisticated. They’re simple things to operate. If she’d watched a cowboy movie, it’s almost as simple as that.”

You believe that she committed those crimes using the silencer ?
(Pauses) “My own personal belief, I believe that that’s a complete red herring. I don’t have evidence one way or the other on that. Not hard evidence. I believe that she didn’t use the silencer.”

Do you see the spark of this crime being the possibility of her children being fostered out ?
“It was something that was discussed. That was one of the many, many options that were discussed over how best to help her. What were the outside pressures causing her such distress ?”

Do you have any regrets about the way you behaved around the time of the funeral ?
“No, because a lot of those things have been grossly exaggerated by the media. I was so devastated at the loss of my family, in a sense I was trying to buy love from my friends by happily picking up the tabs, spending money to buy their affection, because I needed their love. So, no, I don’t regret that… I didn’t do anything wrong.”

What about when you went on holiday ?
“That was just with Brett Collins – we stayed in a caravan, not an expensive holiday.”

Any other regrets ?
“Yes, I suppose I do regret things. Not understanding early enough what was really going on, with the family. Being too selfish, too involved with what I was doing. I wish I’d been a better brother. Maybe Sheila and my mum and dad and Daniel and Nicholas would still be alive. I look back now and say, well, so much disturbance, why didn’t I do more ?”

ends
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/


Wow, it’s late now but I’ll highlight his lies tomorrow.

It’s littered
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 12:20:43 AM
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
9h
Was Sheila Caffell accidentally shot by firearms officers training at the scene at #WhiteHouseFarm?
“The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell 'the wound' had been inflicted by her own hand.” PC995 Norman Wright
The #JeremyBamber case
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/single-gunshot-wound-to-sheila




Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:24:12 AM

Wow, it’s late now but I’ll highlight his lies tomorrow.

It’s littered



There are no lies in there.

It's similar to what we discussed.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:33:38 AM
Carl Beech.

It's late and I can't be posting too much longer.

Sean Attwood here exposes many of the elites, check out his videos. 

https://youtu.be/LIi_dTIBCq0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:48:54 AM
We cannot ignore the facts.

https://youtu.be/Twcw5OxHus4


https://youtu.be/gRqdlb_cCp8


https://youtu.be/EfJrTiniBMI

Being a High Mason it's not impossible to imagine Neveille got wind of this.... Or something similar.
It was rife.... And it still is.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 01:16:58 AM
Jeremy Bamber prison interview in full courtesy of Jim Shelly

LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993

This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.

How do you feel now about your conviction ?
“I still can’t understand why I was convicted. It seems incredible to me, eight years after it all happened, still fighting away. There’s so much they don’t want to reveal. So much that they say they didn’t do which would have established my innocence. Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely. But, as my dad always used to say to me when any injustice happened to me in my childhood: “don’t worry Jeremy, the truth always comes out in the wash.” I think now the people helping me have been able to put together a package which, the bottom line, as they say, is that it is unimaginable that I would have been convicted had this evidence been before the jury.”

How much trouble have you had from other inmates ?
“Um, pretty much none. Very little. I’ve obviously made one or two enemies over the years. I would say the majority of prisoners believe in me – after reading the paperwork, meeting me, quizzing me. The prison staff extend to me, personally, every facility that they can. Very friendly. It’s not the same in every jail, and not the same for every prisoner.”

Have you had any physical assaults ?
“One in Franklin – from a guard, not a prisoner. It was a Control and Restraint technique. I smashed up my cell and went on a shit protest. It was to do with my case – a daft protest really when I look back at it. I asked for it. Apart from that, in all these years, I’ve never been touched.”

What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”

There is conflicting evidence about her actual ability to have committed these crimes with that weapon.
“My own opinion is that she would have had no trouble.”

What about her actual experience ?
“I can’t say that she’d had any particular experience with that particular weapon. It’s not difficult, not sophisticated. They’re simple things to operate. If she’d watched a cowboy movie, it’s almost as simple as that.”

You believe that she committed those crimes using the silencer ?
(Pauses) “My own personal belief, I believe that that’s a complete red herring. I don’t have evidence one way or the other on that. Not hard evidence. I believe that she didn’t use the silencer.”

Do you see the spark of this crime being the possibility of her children being fostered out ?
“It was something that was discussed. That was one of the many, many options that were discussed over how best to help her. What were the outside pressures causing her such distress ?”

Do you have any regrets about the way you behaved around the time of the funeral ?
“No, because a lot of those things have been grossly exaggerated by the media. I was so devastated at the loss of my family, in a sense I was trying to buy love from my friends by happily picking up the tabs, spending money to buy their affection, because I needed their love. So, no, I don’t regret that… I didn’t do anything wrong.”

What about when you went on holiday ?
“That was just with Brett Collins – we stayed in a caravan, not an expensive holiday.”

Any other regrets ?
“Yes, I suppose I do regret things. Not understanding early enough what was really going on, with the family. Being too selfish, too involved with what I was doing. I wish I’d been a better brother. Maybe Sheila and my mum and dad and Daniel and Nicholas would still be alive. I look back now and say, well, so much disturbance, why didn’t I do more ?”

ends
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/

Such childish responses which if I'm honest isn't at all surprising given Bamber's limited intellect.  His comparison of the Anschutz .22 rifle to that used by a cowboy in a western is bewildering.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 01:22:32 AM
Such childish responses which if I'm honest isn't at all surprising given Bamber's limited intellect.  His comparison of the Anschutz .22 rifle to that used by a cowboy in a western is bewildering.


You really need to try and think for yourself.  Jeremy has a high IQ,  read books constantly, attained many OU degrees, some a first. He has taught inmates to read, to write and is qualified to run educational classes in prison.
Jeremy is not of meagre intellect - it is quite the opposite.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2020, 02:13:30 AM


There are no lies in there.

It's similar to what we discussed.

No disrespect, but there are lies in there - he contradicts himself about Sheila in a later interview with Eric Allison.

What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”

This is in contrast to this (listen from around 5:03

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/audio/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-audio
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 03:57:37 AM
Desperate times

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago  *&^^&


Who’s fed her this rubbish? Oh, Jeremy, of course!

It’s embarrassing!

She clearly knows nothing at all about the Freemasons, but I do. Close family and friends are on the square: one is a master mason: and Ive read some of their book (akin to the Bible) and the words are BEAUTIFUL! The masons support many, many charities, including Great Ordham Street Hospital for children: they contribute towards helping the disadvantaged, and whilst it’s true they’ll give a helping hand to a fellow mason, it’s only done out of kindness and fellowship and they ONLY support each other in business providing it’s all legal.

They’d NEVER get involved with anyone unsavoury, and if they discovered he was they’d be thrown out their lodge. So all this talk about murders and masons it total rubbish made up by the ignorant.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 04:15:08 AM
Don’t forget the Kevin Nunn case which Mark Newby referred to as a ‘disaster’

”Lawyers for Bamber – whose case is currently the subject of a six-part ITV dramatisation – have found in archives a series of statements by senior officers and the police surgeon that they say contradict that claim. They say the documents were never seen by the trial jury, and suggest that Caffell appeared to have only one gunshot wound when the police entered the crime scene.

“Mark Newby, a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, told the Guardian:

The jury only heard of the two shots, which was relied upon by the crown to support their case, but this wasn’t the whole picture. It represents yet another significant aspect to this case which supports Jeremy Bamber and undermines this conviction.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true


Did the trial jury hear from the Vet, Anji and Virginia Greaves, Sue Ford etc ?



But you can SEE the two bullet holes!

Dr Vanezis established which one was fatal!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 04:23:10 AM


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp


It doesn’t mention the Freemasons, Agatha 😳
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 04:25:55 AM
Aunt Agatha
Nevill knew something!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp


Claims police covered up historical child sex abuse by MPs and officers investigated - 2015
Claims that police attempted to cover up MPs’ involvement in child sex abuse dating back to the 1970s are being investigated.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has announced 13 further investigations into allegations of historical corruption in the Metropolitan Police and Essex Police.
Among the dozen allegations relating to Scotland Yard are claims that the prosecution of an unnamed government official for possessing indecent images of children was dropped on the order of senior officers.
Several investigations  were allegedly shut down by “high-ranking” officers, while crucial evidence relating to child abuse involving politicians, council officers and police went missing in several cases.



What’s all this got to do with the Freemasons and Nevill? 🤷‍♀️
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 04:34:00 AM
Desperate times

Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons.  I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.

June was very religious.  Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.

What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?

June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.

The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.

It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?

Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.

He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.

Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.

Jeremy was the Patsy!   Jeremy is innocent!!


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198

And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago  *&^^&



Is Agatha related to the Brookside fanatic on Twitter who claims it was watching Brookside that sent Sheila mad?🤨


And what’s all this nonsense that Freemasons worship the devil? Agatha seems very strange 😳
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 04:51:02 AM

It could not look like an outsider did the hit.

So as Jeremy left the gun out he must have been in on it too 😳
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 06:01:28 AM
Aunt Agatha
Nevill knew something!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp


Claims police covered up historical child sex abuse by MPs and officers investigated - 2015
Claims that police attempted to cover up MPs’ involvement in child sex abuse dating back to the 1970s are being investigated.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has announced 13 further investigations into allegations of historical corruption in the Metropolitan Police and Essex Police.
Among the dozen allegations relating to Scotland Yard are claims that the prosecution of an unnamed government official for possessing indecent images of children was dropped on the order of senior officers.
Several investigations  were allegedly shut down by “high-ranking” officers, while crucial evidence relating to child abuse involving politicians, council officers and police went missing in several cases.

I've read some baloney in my time but this takes the biscuit.  Only a deranged nutter would shoot two small children in the head and Jeremy Bamber fits the bill.  Julie Mugford got it right in the end, she had a narrow escape from this fiend.  AA should wise up and get a grip, Bamber is still playing her for a right fool.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 06:40:40 AM

The police had to be called.  Jeremy is not going to go to the house without calling the police.  Both Jeremy and the police had to be on site at the same time to frame Jeremy.  If Jeremy wasn’t framed people would be looking for someone else.  Whoever oversaw the immediate operation, ensured that things where in place, or as much as could be.


So did they tell Jeremy just hours earlier to leave the loaded gun on the kitchen worktop?

How did they know the best way to break in was through the bathroom window?

And why did they shoot dead the twins? Did the twins know what was being hushed up too?




Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 06:51:41 AM


I cannot prove any of it.  I’m no threat. 

As for Julie, as I have no idea but I do believe Jeremy when he told me he did not phone her saying tonight is the night...


But the twins were no threat either, and they killed both of them too.

So why wouldn’t they come after you, especially as you’re making this public knowledge?!😳
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 07:02:46 AM
How can someone like you (and Daisy) get suckered in by this worthless piece of crap? Did he defend you when Mrs Blobby and her gang began attacking you? No, he sided with them.

Aggy, you are far too good for him. And I think you know it.

Who’s Mrs Blobby? Is it one of his fanny club members?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 07:12:07 AM


I was at a dinner in central london for business woman of the year (I was only a guest, nothing more).

At the table I was sat with someone who worked at the solicitor’s defending him.  As a teenager I wanted to be a solicitor but my family couldn’t afford it, so I couldn’t follow my dream.

We sat and discussed jeremys case as When I followed the case on the news it didn’t add up. I was curious. I’d never heard of a miscarriage of justice and I asked if I could write to him.  I really had no other motive than to know the truth I suppose...I don’t know.

So I wrote to him.  I gave the solicitors address. He replied and we carried on writing. I eventually gave my own address and it went from there.


You’re the third woman who’s claimed they went to a dinner/conference/event and just “happened” to be sat next to someone working at his solicitors, and that’s how they ended up writing to him...

 &%%6
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 07:35:22 AM
Interesting articles https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/202001/understanding-the-psychology-conspiracy-theories-part-1

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/psych-unseen/201909/delusions-conspiracy-theories-and-the-internet
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 07:40:27 AM


It’s not like that. Seriously.

It wasn’t about sides.  He wanted to protect me as much as possible.  I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days.  We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.

Those who came in later wanted to campaign for him....I never got involved for a long time.  Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out and I became a target and they attacked me online.
They had to get rid of me if they were ever to get close to him.  They told him lies about me, falsified an account of mine then sent him all this false evidence.

I’ve always stated, he had no access to the outside world and could only go on the information he was receiving and lots of bamberettes were encouraged to write to him showing false messages supposedly written by me.

Jeremy and I had disagreements about it, I protested my innocence but it was just my voice against many others, doing a character assassination on me.

I couldn’t cope with it all and stepped down. I acted off feeling I’d done my stint, it’s maybe time for others to take the lead.

With a broken heart, I stepped back. 

He never betrayed me as such.  The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it.  He was shocked by it all, saddened but he had to make the best decision for him. He had to get out of prison and I respected his decision.

So, I walked away.


Agatha, even BEFORE those days no prisoners, ESPECIALLY Cat A prisoners who were mass murderers were never, ever allowed to be alone with their visitors. Even prisoners who weren’t/aren’t Cat A are not allowed to be alone with their visitors.

Ever.

It was like that then, and still is now.

The prisons have (and did then too) a visitors hall where ALL the prisoners sit at individual tables opposite their visitors.

Before the prisoners are taken from their cell they’re searched head to toe, and are not allowed to take anything whatsoever with them.

The visitors are also searched thoroughly. No cameras allowed at all. No phones. No liquids. No food.

The prisoners are not allowed to get up from their seat. They can’t even go to the loo.

They have just one hour visits (or maybe two?) and they’re only allowed one one visit every week or fortnight, I’m not sure.

When the visits take place guards WATCH everyone and the prisoners are never left alone with their visitors. When the visits end the prisoners are taken back to their cells after being searched a second time.

It’s always been like that and still is.

Why are you coming out with such stories? You’re doing yourself no favours at all.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 03, 2020, 08:34:50 AM
Most of us are familiar with post prison images of JB in normal clothes.  Who took these images?

SL's book contains an image of JB with a rather attractive man (def not SL) wearing normal clothes.  Who was this person and who took the image?

If prison rules are so draconian how come so much contraband gets in?  Surely not all from dodgy staff? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 08:48:15 AM

I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.


He’d found Mrs Blobby to bamboozle, that’s the real reason, and she sent him better quality envelopes
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 03, 2020, 08:57:42 AM

Agatha, even BEFORE those days no prisoners, ESPECIALLY Cat A prisoners who were mass murderers were never, ever allowed to be alone with their visitors. Even prisoners who weren’t/aren’t Cat A are not allowed to be alone with their visitors.

Ever.

It was like that then, and still is now.

The prisons have (and did then too) a visitors hall where ALL the prisoners sit at individual tables opposite their visitors.

Before the prisoners are taken from their cell they’re searched head to toe, and are not allowed to take anything whatsoever with them.

The visitors are also searched thoroughly. No cameras allowed at all. No phones. No liquids. No food.

The prisoners are not allowed to get up from their seat. They can’t even go to the loo.

They have just one hour visits (or maybe two?) and they’re only allowed one one visit every week or fortnight, I’m not sure.

When the visits take place guards WATCH everyone and the prisoners are never left alone with their visitors. When the visits end the prisoners are taken back to their cells after being searched a second time.

It’s always been like that and still is.

Why are you coming out with such stories? You’re doing yourself no favours at all.

Are you speaking from experience Ispy?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 03, 2020, 09:07:16 AM
Aunt Agatha and I got to know each other when I was reading about the Bamber case. She was very supportive to me when Jeremy started being unpleasant to me. She knows him better than anyone.  We remained friends after I severed contact with him and discussed several scenarios from that night. AA confided in me and I will never disclose anything she told me. I trusted her and she trusted me. We also met each other and had a brilliant day out with each other’s families.

We used to speak regularly on the phone and gave each other advice about things going on in our lives and I really valued her friendship. However about a year ago she stopped answering my calls and changed her phone number. I feel hurt and would just like to know what I have done to offend her.

Hi Daisy

Maybe this is one for a pm.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 09:15:57 AM


None of you know him Daisy.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 03, 2020, 09:18:38 AM
Most of us are familiar with post prison images of JB in normal clothes.  Who took these images?

SL's book contains an image of JB with a rather attractive man (def not SL) wearing normal clothes.  Who was this person and who took the image?

If prison rules are so draconian how come so much contraband gets in?  Surely not all from dodgy staff?



Prisoners are allowed to wear their own clothes. Ronnie Kray used to wear suits, bespoke 😤

I’ve seen photos online of the evil Myra Hyndley laying on her prison bed in casual clothes.


That’s got nothing to do with visiting rules, you know.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 09:31:37 AM

[/quote]


Hello Daisy. It's lovely that you've been such good supports for each other. It must have been very difficult time for you both. It was all a very long time ago, now, and whilst I think it's easier to evaluate a situation from a distance, sometimes the situation gets blurred.

I feel concerned that AA recalls being isolated with him -a perfect scenario for indoctrination- and then having nowhere and no one with whom she could share it with. Even counselors have the luxury(!) of a supervisor who helps them make sense of what they've heard. I'm not in any way hearing that he wanted to protect her, I think he wanted to isolate her as a way of controlling her. It most certainly made it easy for him to discard her. It sounds very much as if he'd found someone more interesting to fill the place she was vacating. However, maybe you experienced exactly the same thing and felt he was protecting you?

I'm sorry you're no longer in touch. Circumstances created a strong bond between you. Might it be worth reaching out again?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 10:22:12 AM

[/quote]


I believe AA mentioned 18 years!! That's a very long time. One on one visits, weekly? Phone calls in between? Secrets which couldn't be shared? From where I'm sitting, it comes very close to grooming, ie having the opportunity to manipulate another person to accept certain beliefs. I wonder if this is something you recognize from the time of your own friendship with him?

I can understand why AA, you -indeed, anyone who's ever found themselves in that sort of relationship- would want to cling to what they believed to have been true. To deny it brings the whole pack of playing card, the house built on sand, crumbling around our ears. Very hard to accept. Even harder, and infinitely more painful, is accepting that we'd been used. Might such be the reason that contact was severed?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 10:24:16 AM

[/quote]


AA, that the best thing I've heard all morning. We all need some of that in lockdown!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 10:34:41 AM


I cannot prove any of it.  I’m no threat. 

As for Julie, as I have no idea but I do believe Jeremy when he told me he did not phone her saying tonight is the night...

With respect AA, that just goes to show how gullible you are and what's more, Bamber knows it.  He has spun you a yarn just like the bullshit he told Julie about a hitman and she too believed him.   @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 10:36:04 AM
He did know what happened Aunt Agatha - sadly you’ve been conned

Like so many others!!  Bamber is manipulative and persuasive, the epitome of the psychopath.  To do what he did means the man is depraved and incapable of normal human emotions.  You never knew him outside of prison unlike Julie Mugford so I have no doubt whatsoever who knew him best and who now knows the truth.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 10:48:57 AM

He did not phone Julie.

He was told the police where on their way.  He was told to hang back. He drove there and a police car passed him on the way, speeding by.  He had no idea what he was driving into and didn’t want to get caught speeding too.  He was completely thrown by the phone call and did what he was told to do.

Sorry but an independent witness proved you're wrong.  As for the rest...utter fairytales.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 10:52:08 AM

He did not phone Julie stating he was going to kill his family!

And he was overtaken by a police car.

You weren't there...Julie was.  Jeremy Bamber is a compulsive liar...need I say any more?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 11:25:56 AM

Who’s fed her this rubbish? Oh, Jeremy, of course!

It’s embarrassing!

She clearly knows nothing at all about the Freemasons, but I do. Close family and friends are on the square: one is a master mason: and Ive read some of their book (akin to the Bible) and the words are BEAUTIFUL! The masons support many, many charities, including Great Ordham Street Hospital for children: they contribute towards helping the disadvantaged, and whilst it’s true they’ll give a helping hand to a fellow mason, it’s only done out of kindness and fellowship and they ONLY support each other in business providing it’s all legal.

They’d NEVER get involved with anyone unsavoury, and if they discovered he was they’d be thrown out their lodge. So all this talk about murders and masons it total rubbish made up by the ignorant.



You know nothing about freemasonry.

I'm limited in what I can share on here, the best examples of what goes on in the Higher Ranks have been removed  due to restrictions on free speech and censorship.

https://youtu.be/SACHXYQgHPE
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 11:28:38 AM

Hello Daisy. It's lovely that you've been such good supports for each other. It must have been very difficult time for you both. It was all a very long time ago, now, and whilst I think it's easier to evaluate a situation from a distance, sometimes the situation gets blurred.

I feel concerned that AA recalls being isolated with him -a perfect scenario for indoctrination- and then having nowhere and no one with whom she could share it with. Even counselors have the luxury(!) of a supervisor who helps them make sense of what they've heard. I'm not in any way hearing that he wanted to protect her, I think he wanted to isolate her as a way of controlling her. It most certainly made it easy for him to discard her. It sounds very much as if he'd found someone more interesting to fill the place she was vacating. However, maybe you experienced exactly the same thing and felt he was protecting you?

I'm sorry you're no longer in touch. Circumstances created a strong bond between you. Might it be worth reaching out again?



I was not isolated with him.  He did not try and indoctrinate me or brainwash me. 

I've stated early, what I am suggesting happened is my own theory.  Not Jeremy's. He didn't suggest any of this to me. In fact, as I've stated earlier in my posts, he didn't want to discuss the idea and never has.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 03, 2020, 11:36:48 AM
You weren't there...Julie was.  Jeremy Bamber is a compulsive liar...need I say any more?

JM wasn't there she was in London. 

JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB. I would suggest the only reason JM did is that DS Jones threatened to throw the book at her if she didn't cooperate.  This was a young woman, just turned 21 yoa, who was holed up in a police training room for days on end prevented from having any contact with the outside world, not even a solicitor or her mother.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 11:37:43 AM

It doesn’t mention the Freemasons, Agatha 😳



I don't have time to educate you on this subject but it's all online if you did deep enough.  You won't find it on MSM either.
I looked into freemasonry about 10yrs ago and what goes on in the higher ranks is satanic. It's a sick, perverts cult that has reaped its evil beliefs and practices upon mankind with devastating consequences. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 11:41:17 AM


You know nothing about freemasonry.

I'm limited in what I can share on here, the best examples of what goes on in the Higher Ranks have been removed  due to restrictions on free speech and censorship.

https://youtu.be/SACHXYQgHPE


With close friends and family members who are Masons, I can't accept your denigration of them. We all know that there are rotten apples in every barrel/walk of life. NO organization is free of them. I don't accept there are more within Masons' ranks than in any other. "Old boys" networks are found everywhere. We all enjoy "mates' rates". I see nothing wrong with putting in a good word/having a good word put in. It's what happens in ALL 'clubs'. People  point others in the right direction. Having said all of that, where is the proof, other than from Jeremy's mouth, that Nevill was ever a member of that organization you claim to be behind the murders?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 11:42:03 AM
With respect AA, that just goes to show how gullible you are and what's more, Bamber knows it.  He has spun you a yarn just like the bullshit he told Julie about a hitman and she too believed him.   @)(++(*


You need to read my post Very Carefully.

I have stated, he did not tell me this!
He was nervous about even discussing the idea.

It's what I believe happened. Me!

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 11:44:10 AM

With close friends and family members who are Masons, I can't accept your denigration of them. We all know that there are rotten apples in every barrel/walk of life. NO organization is free of them. I don't accept there are more within Masons' ranks than in any other. "Old boys" networks are found everywhere. We all enjoy "mates' rates". I see nothing wrong with putting in a good word/having a good word put in. It's what happens in ALL 'clubs'. People  point others in the right direction. Having said all of that, where is the proof, other than from Jeremy's mouth, that Nevill was ever a member of that organization you claim to be behind the murders?

I'm talking higher ranks... Not your friends April.  We're talking 30 degree plus.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 03, 2020, 11:48:49 AM
JM wasn't there she was in London. 

JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB. I would suggest the only reason JM did is that DS Jones threatened to throw the book at her if she didn't cooperate.  This was a young woman, just turned 21 yoa, who was holed up in a police training room for days on end prevented from having any contact with the outside world, not even a solicitor or her mother.

She was there at the end of the phone Holly.She knows what Bamber said and what he had been saying for 18 months.

The rest is pure hogwash. What would DS Jones have thrown the book at her for if she hadn't told him everything in the first place? How many other people did she confide in before going to the police, was it 5?  Do you think that maybe something was on her mind that became increasingly difficult to deal with as the scales fell from her eyes?

I am biased when it comes to Julie though, she is utterly gorgeous in those pictures of her in 2002
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 11:53:15 AM
She was there at the end of the phone Holly.She knows what Bamber said and what he had been saying for 18 months.

The rest is pure hogwash. What would DS Jones have thrown the book at her for if she hadn't told him everything in the first place? How many other people did she confide in before going to the police, was it 5?  Do you think that maybe something was on her mind that became increasingly difficult to deal with as the scales fell from her eyes?

I am biased when it comes to Julie though, she is utterly gorgeous in those pictures of her in 2002


Based on that last statement you should start a Campaign..

'Julie Mugford is Innocent'   @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 03, 2020, 11:55:55 AM
Mark Newby isn't that bad either, with big broad shoulders for Holly to climb on.  Shame about the tiny todger though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14h6Fts25k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14h6Fts25k)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:10:16 PM
Mark Newby isn't that bad either, with big broad shoulders for Holly to climb on.  Shame about the tiny todger though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14h6Fts25k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14h6Fts25k)


Wow! Who is this guy???  8@??)( 8(*(
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 12:14:00 PM

You need to read my post Very Carefully.

I have stated, he did not tell me this!
He was nervous about even discussing the idea.

It's what I believe happened. Me!

Did he never seek to disavow you of those beliefs, AA? A very good starting point would have been to tell you that Nevill wasn't a Mason. It seems to me that by his silence, he  allowed your belief to take hold. It may have suited him to do so.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 03, 2020, 12:18:39 PM
Did he never seek to disavow you of those beliefs, AA? A very good starting point would have been to tell you that Nevill wasn't a Mason. It seems to me that by his silence, he  allowed your belief to take hold. It may have suited him to do so.

Lets face it, he doesn't try to disavow any of his supporters of other erroneous beliefs  ie; rabbits blood in silencer, Nevills call to the police, figure in the window etc..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:20:57 PM


I was not isolated with him.  He did not try and indoctrinate me or brainwash me. 

I've stated early, what I am suggesting happened is my own theory.  Not Jeremy's. He didn't suggest any of this to me. In fact, as I've stated earlier in my posts, he didn't want to discuss the idea and never has.

Suspect your theories didn’t suit him AA and those of whoever came along from the ‘CT’ did

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:21:56 PM
Did he never seek to disavow you of those beliefs, AA? A very good starting point would have been to tell you that Nevill wasn't a Mason. It seems to me that by his silence, he  allowed your belief to take hold. It may have suited him to do so.


Unbelievable.

We never sat and discussed it because I don't think he had any idea of what his father could possibly have known.

It's not common knowledge. One had to go researching for this info, who all the local MP'S were, who held power in that area, who's now passed over and who is still alive.

We have some very well known names that I'm never going to mention on here, who have had some real power involved in this. 

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:23:01 PM
We used to speak regularly on the phone and gave each other advice about things going on in our lives and I really valued her friendship. However about a year ago she stopped answering my calls and changed her phone number. I feel hurt and would just like to know what I have done to offend her.

Why have you claimed AA changed her phone number ?

She didn’t



Hey Daisy,

I’ve not changed my number at all.   It’s still the same.  Call me when you get the chance.  Look forward to catching up with you. Xx
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 12:27:17 PM

Unbelievable.!


I'm not sure why you'd say that, AA. If you had a good friend who said something which could be of momentous importance, wouldn't you want to support them? On the other hand, if you believed it to be 'off the wall', possibly damaging, wouldn't you suggest that they had a rethink?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:27:52 PM
Why have you claimed AA changed her phone number ?

She didn’t

A mistake was made, OK Nicholas. End of!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:28:10 PM


Is Agatha related to the Brookside fanatic on Twitter who claims it was watching Brookside that sent Sheila mad?🤨


And what’s all this nonsense that Freemasons worship the devil? Agatha seems very strange 😳

Don’t think they are a Brookside fanatic , they’ve referred to Eastenders also

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:29:35 PM

I'm not sure why you'd say that, AA. If you had a good friend who said something which could be of momentous importance, wouldn't you want to support them? On the other hand, if you believed it to be 'off the wall', possibly damaging, wouldn't you suggest that they had a rethink?


Please go back to previous reply, I modified my answer. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
A mistake was made, OK Nicholas. End of!!

Was it
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:32:57 PM

You need to read my post Very Carefully.

I have stated, he did not tell me this!
He was nervous about even discussing the idea.

It's what I believe happened. Me!

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:37:51 PM
*&^^&

I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.

One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:41:37 PM
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.

One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.

Maybe it was
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 03, 2020, 12:41:57 PM
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.

One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.
I get it, 'nervous' could mean 'reluctant'.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 03, 2020, 12:43:06 PM


You know nothing about freemasonry.

I'm limited in what I can share on here, the best examples of what goes on in the Higher Ranks have been removed  due to restrictions on free speech and censorship.

https://youtu.be/SACHXYQgHPE

I have to say, one of the most godawful human beings I have ever known is very high up in the Masons. He is old and ill now, probably with not long to go, and if he believes in all that heaven and hell stuff he must be absolutely sh*tting himself.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:44:17 PM

Unbelievable.

We never sat and discussed it because I don't think he had any idea of what his father could possibly have known.

It's not common knowledge. One had to go researching for this info, who all the local MP'S were, who held power in that area, who's now passed over and who is still alive.

We have some very well known names that I'm never going to mention on here, who have had some real power involved in this.

‘Unbelievable’ indeed
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:44:33 PM
Essex police failings yet again.

https://youtu.be/BP5lS_zfEcc
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:45:43 PM
I get it, 'nervous' could mean 'reluctant'.


Couldn't  have said it better. Thank you
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:47:00 PM
JM wasn't there she was in London. 

JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB. I would suggest the only reason JM did is that DS Jones threatened to throw the book at her if she didn't cooperate.  This was a young woman, just turned 21 yoa, who was holed up in a police training room for days on end prevented from having any contact with the outside world, not even a solicitor or her mother.

It was established Bamber was ‘two timing’ Holly

What did Anji and Virginia Greaves witness statements say exactly?

Was grooming mentioned per chance ?

Or did their statements give an impression of Bamber having groomed them

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2020, 12:49:30 PM
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.

One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.

Hi AA, Jeremy told you that Nevill was a Mason and yet it isn't mentioned anywhere in his documented history. We know he was a magistrate and a church warden, that he was in the RAF and various other aspects of his life. However, no one at any time - not even CAL uncovered that he was in the Masons.

I think you're quite brave for posting your/his theory, you must have known it would lead to criticism and people would find it impossible to believe. But I have to say I can't buy it either. I think Bamber spun you a yarn and given your support of him in the early days, I think it shows his true character that he was prepared to believe others who he didn't know, rather then yourself who had gone out of your way to support him. He didn't deserve your loyalty then and he certainly doesn't deserve it now.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 12:50:42 PM
Essex police failings yet again.

https://youtu.be/BP5lS_zfEcc

Another of Simon McKays cases

https://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/exclusive-bamber-lawyer-to-take-on-balkwell-case-1-1445332

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-21321278

Simon Bromley was jailed for cultivating cannabis https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-29613763

His employer Simon Bromley was convicted of failing to ensure the health and safety of his employee but was cleared of manslaughter by gross negligence.
The Balkwell family received £12,000 compensation over the investigation of the death based on an Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) report.
The 2012 report found eight senior officers made 25 errors in a "seriously flawed" investigation. It found no evidence of corruption.

Latest https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-49033449
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 12:51:36 PM

Unbelievable.

We never sat and discussed it because I don't think he had any idea of what his father could possibly have known.

It's not common knowledge. One had to go researching for this info, who all the local MP'S were, who held power in that area, who's now passed over and who is still alive.

We have some very well known names that I'm never going to mention on here, who have had some real power involved in this.


Rest assured, AA, not for one moment would I expect you to say anything you're not comfortable with.  My concern is why, when there's absolutely no proof of Nevill having been a Mason, did Jeremy allow your chain of thought in that area to continue?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:53:57 PM
‘Unbelievable’ indeed


Go and do some proper research!

It's all online but not in plain sight.

One  has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who, what accusations have been made against them and take it from there.

See how far you get before you see another cover up.  It's a pattern.... Its been played for decades and prominent people are bought as a result.  Look at the decision then made by these prominent people...ask yourself if that goes against the grain from how they normally reacted etc.

The rabbit hole runs very deep.

I still however, cannot finger one person. Again I have no proof.  But it certainly fits in with everything that Jeremy has ever told me when I questioned him or we discussed things.

My research has brought me to this conclusion.. Nothing more.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 12:55:11 PM

Rest assured, AA, not for one moment would I expect you to say anything you're not comfortable with.  My concern is why, when there's absolutely no proof of Nevill having been a Mason, did Jeremy allow your chain of thought in that area to continue?


He has not permitted it. He doesn't know what I think.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:00:21 PM

Go and do some proper research!


And throw up the same nonsense as you  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.

Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc.  This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 01:02:05 PM

He has not permitted it. He doesn't know what I think.


You were with him for an extraordinarily long time -some 18 years, I think you mentioned. Are you saying that, in all that time, despite that he claimed to have no idea what had occurred -I believe you said "we had no idea"- you never shared any of your own thoughts with him?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 01:05:17 PM
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.

Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc.  This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.


Your conclusions have certainly taken you down a route, which I, and I feel fairly certain, others, would find difficult to take on board.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 03, 2020, 01:06:15 PM
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.

Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc.  This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.

I bet he does know that you're on here, Ags. Ermintrood and her herd will be keeping him posted.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:10:09 PM
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.

Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc.  This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.


Not dissimilar to JM then
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 01:10:22 PM

You were with him for an extraordinarily long time -some 18 years, I think you mentioned. Are you saying that, in all that time, despite that he claimed to have no idea what had occurred -I believe you said "we had no idea"- you never shared any of your own thoughts with him?


Yes, I shared my thoughts but if he was reluctant to go down that road then there was nothing I could do.  You cannot keep repeating the same mantra for 18yrs.

For many years there was no further disclosure than what we knew.  Only when evidence came forward was Jeremy able to examine it. 

My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.

It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.

The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:12:41 PM

You were with him for an extraordinarily long time -some 18 years, I think you mentioned. Are you saying that, in all that time, despite that he claimed to have no idea what had occurred -I believe you said "we had no idea"- you never shared any of your own thoughts with him?

It appears Bamber’s public innocence fraud campaign didn’t start until around the time he discarded AA ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 01:14:18 PM

Yes, I shared my thoughts but if he was reluctant to go down that road then there was nothing I could do.  You cannot keep repeating the same mantra for 18yrs.

For many years there was no further disclosure than what we knew.  Only when evidence came forward was Jeremy able to examine it. 

My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.

It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.

The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.


But for your theory to work, it requires Nevill to have been a member of a group for which you have no love, so I'm surprised that you didn't check out that very basic fact with Jeremy.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:14:32 PM

Yes, I shared my thoughts but if he was reluctant to go down that road then there was nothing I could do.  You cannot keep repeating the same mantra for 18yrs.

For many years there was no further disclosure than what we knew.  Only when evidence came forward was Jeremy able to examine it. 

My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.

It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.

The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.

How did evidence come forward ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2020, 01:15:23 PM

Yes, I shared my thoughts but if he was reluctant to go down that road then there was nothing I could do.  You cannot keep repeating the same mantra for 18yrs.

For many years there was no further disclosure than what we knew.  Only when evidence came forward was Jeremy able to examine it. 

My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.

It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.

The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.

Your theory depends on too many 'what if's' AA bu at the heart of it, if Bamber's claim that Nevill was a Mason and there is no evidence that he was.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:16:32 PM
Your theory depends on too many 'what if's' AA bu at the heart of it, if Bamber's claim that Nevill was a Mason and there is no evidence that he was.

Bamber didn’t mention ‘masons’ to JM did he?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 01:17:13 PM
It appears Bamber’s public innocence fraud campaign didn’t start until around the time he discarded AA ?

Judging by the way in which he managed to keep AA separate to 'protect' her, there could have been several others he was 'protecting' in the same way. How would any of them have ever known?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 01:17:57 PM
It doesn't matter at all how far fetched my theory is... Its of no consequence to Jeremy and his CT.

We all have our views based upon our own knowledge.  My knowledge just happens to be different to all of yours.

I do not believe that either Jeremy or Sheila did the shootings... The whole family are innocent victims of a professional hit and the only surviving member is locked away for 35 yrs.... With no light at the end of the tunnel.

It's a f..kin disgrace.  Seriously. 

As for the CT.... wtf!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 01:20:00 PM
It appears Bamber’s public innocence fraud campaign didn’t start until around the time he discarded AA ?


He didn't disguard me!!

Again, another fine example of character assassination.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:21:12 PM
My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.

It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.

Sounds like Bamber’s 3rd party theory
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:21:52 PM

He didn't disguard me!!


He did

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:22:57 PM
It doesn't matter at all how far fetched my theory is... Its of no consequence to Jeremy and his CT.

We all have our views based upon our own knowledge.  My knowledge just happens to be different to all of yours.

I do not believe that either Jeremy or Sheila did the shootings... The whole family are innocent victims of a professional hit and the only surviving member is locked away for 35 yrs.... With no light at the end of the tunnel.

It's a f..kin disgrace.  Seriously. 

As for the CT.... wtf!!

What about the CT are you referring to ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:24:01 PM
The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.

How did it muddy the waters?

In what way do you mean ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:45:39 PM
LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993

This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.
How do you feel now about your conviction ?
“I still can’t understand why I was convicted. It seems incredible to me, eight years after it all happened, still fighting away. There’s so much they don’t want to reveal. So much that they say they didn’t do which would have established my innocence. Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely. But, as my dad always used to say to me when any injustice happened to me in my childhood: “don’t worry Jeremy, the truth always comes out in the wash.” I think now the people helping me have been able to put together a package which, the bottom line, as they say, is that it is unimaginable that I would have been convicted had this evidence been before the jury.”
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/

Aunt Agatha what does Bamber mean when he states:

”Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely.”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 01:51:33 PM
The dirty protests were in Frankland in Durham so quite early on in his career.

Aunt Agathas relationship with Bamber dates back to 1990 this interview was done in 1993

How much trouble have you had from other inmates ?
“Um, pretty much none. Very little. I’ve obviously made one or two enemies over the years. I would say the majority of prisoners believe in me – after reading the paperwork, meeting me, quizzing me. The prison staff extend to me, personally, every facility that they can. Very friendly. It’s not the same in every jail, and not the same for every prisoner.”

Have you had any physical assaults ?
“One in Franklin – from a guard, not a prisoner. It was a Control and Restraint technique. I smashed up my cell and went on a shit protest. It was to do with my case – a daft protest really when I look back at it. I asked for it. Apart from that, in all these years, I’ve never been touched.”
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/

Why did Bamber lose control and smash up his cell and do what he did AA?

And was it you he was on the phone with when he got slashed by another prisoner - am guessing so ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 01:59:43 PM

With close friends and family members who are Masons, I can't accept your denigration of them. We all know that there are rotten apples in every barrel/walk of life. NO organization is free of them. I don't accept there are more within Masons' ranks than in any other. "Old boys" networks are found everywhere. We all enjoy "mates' rates". I see nothing wrong with putting in a good word/having a good word put in. It's what happens in ALL 'clubs'. People  point others in the right direction. Having said all of that, where is the proof, other than from Jeremy's mouth, that Nevill was ever a member of that organization you claim to be behind the murders?

Totally agree, the freemasons are nothing more than an old boys network, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine...wink wink. They also provide funds to good causes and the elderly.  AA has been reading too much crap on the internet imo.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:01:47 PM

Based on that last statement you should start a Campaign..

'Julie Mugford is Innocent'   @)(++(*

The only thing Julie was guilty of was naivety.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:08:00 PM
Essex police failings yet again.

https://youtu.be/BP5lS_zfEcc

That has zero to do with Jeremy Bamber, every organisation makes mistakes.  Bamber's conviction wasn't one of them though no matter how much you want to big him up.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:10:11 PM
Was this you Aunt Agatha ?

If you knew Bamber for 18 years from 1990 - this incident occurred in 2004 

And who was he talking to when this happened?

The murderer Jeremy Bamber, who is in the 18th year of a life sentence for killing five members of his family, is recovering from a knife attack by a fellow inmate at a high security prison.
The 43-year-old prisoner, who was described as "evil beyond belief" by the judge at his trial in 1986, was treated at York district hospital for throat cuts after the incident at Full Sutton jail, near the city.

It is understood that Bamber was "jumped" from behind while talking to a woman friend on a permitted call from the prison
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jun/01/prisonsandprobation.society

And did the women friend ‘tip off’ the media?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:13:02 PM

Go and do some proper research!

It's all online but not in plain sight.

One  has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who, what accusations have been made against them and take it from there.

See how far you get before you see another cover up.  It's a pattern.... Its been played for decades and prominent people are bought as a result.  Look at the decision then made by these prominent people...ask yourself if that goes against the grain from how they normally reacted etc.

The rabbit hole runs very deep.

I still however, cannot finger one person. Again I have no proof.  But it certainly fits in with everything that Jeremy has ever told me when I questioned him or we discussed things.

My research has brought me to this conclusion.. Nothing more.

It doesn't matter what Nevill was involved in if anything at all. If someone had an issue with Nevill they would not have murdered the entire family. Only a hate-filled nutter like Jeremy Bamber who thought he could get rich quick by getting rid of his entire adoptive family could do such a thing.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 02:17:12 PM
Was this you Aunt Agatha ?

If you knew Bamber for 18 years from 1990 - this incident occurred in 2004


I have Never spoken to media or anyone writing a book. I've never replied to requests on here or the blue.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:17:52 PM
Tru Benjamin Retweeted
Professor Karol Sikora
@ProfKarolSikora
4h
Our society is being torn apart and it isn’t just by the Coronavirus, it’s fear too.

Many are stoking the flames without fully understanding the consequences - some can take the horror, many can't.

People need to know there is a little bit of hope out there.
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/with_replies
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:18:24 PM

I have Never spoken to media or anyone writing a book. I've never replied to requests on here or the blue.

Was it you he was on the phone to though?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:19:34 PM
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.

Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc.  This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.

It doesn't take much working out. The farmhouse appeared locked up and all the victims were inside. Only Jeremy Bamber knew how to sneak in and out undetected. Only Jeremy Bamber knew how to shoot and fast load the murder weapon. Only Jeremy Bamber had the physical presence to overpower Nevill Bamber. Only Jeremy Bamber had everything to gain from murdering them all. Only Jeremy Bamber had no alibi.

Have I missed anything?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:25:45 PM
It doesn't matter at all how far fetched my theory is... Its of no consequence to Jeremy and his CT.

We all have our views based upon our own knowledge.  My knowledge just happens to be different to all of yours.

I do not believe that either Jeremy or Sheila did the shootings... The whole family are innocent victims of a professional hit and the only surviving member is locked away for 35 yrs.... With no light at the end of the tunnel.

It's a f..kin disgrace.  Seriously. 

As for the CT.... wtf!!

I'm sorry Agatha but professional hitmen draw the line at murdering children.  As for conspiracy theories and cover-ups, I think you've been reading too much from Icke.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 02:27:01 PM
It doesn't take much working out. The farmhouse appeared locked up and all the victims were inside. Only Jeremy Bamber knew how to sneak in and out undetected. Only Jeremy Bamber knew how to shoot and fast load the murder weapon. Only Jeremy Bamber had the physical presence to overpower Nevill Bamber. Only Jeremy Bamber had everything to gain from murdering them all. Only Jeremy Bamber had no alibi.

Have I missed anything?


What if it wasn't Jeremy? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 02:28:00 PM
I'm sorry Agatha but professional hitmen draw the line at murdering children.


Haha.  And you'd know that how?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:30:26 PM

What if it wasn't Jeremy?

If he arranged for someone to do it, this being extremely unlikely of course, he would still be guilty.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:32:13 PM

Haha.  And you'd know that how?

Because even hardened criminals will draw a line at doing something which is so obnoxious that it turns their stomach.  As someone posted previously, it takes a special kind of depraved nastiness to murder two sleeping children.

You obviously cannot see Bamber doing that so it serves your own sanity best if it was someone else who pulled the trigger.  Regardless of whether he pulled the trigger he is guilty of conspiracy to murder.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:34:09 PM
In the 18 years you and Bamber were in contact did he ever mention he was allegedly “sexually molested” when he was 11 years old?


”Close pal, Brett Collins, said: ”When Jeremy was 11 he was sexually molested by older boys and that deeply affected him."

Bamber left school with no qualifications but his father still financed a trip to Australia and New Zealand and a scuba diving course.

There have been claims while he was there he broke into a jewellery store and stole an expensive watch, which he then gave to a girlfriend back in the UK.“
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/sex-abuse-serial-killer-jeremy-21153790
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
I'm sorry Agatha but professional hitmen draw the line at murdering children.  As for conspiracy theories and cover-ups, I think you've been reading too much from Icke.


We went to war on fake documents killing millions of men, women and children.

Your comment is absurd!

https://youtu.be/svYyl2vIdxQ
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 02:37:21 PM
If he arranged for someone to do it, this being extremely unlikely of course, he would still be guilty.


Wasting my time. Jeremy never arranged the hit!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:38:36 PM

We went to war on fake documents killing millions of men, women and children.

Your comment is absurd!

https://youtu.be/svYyl2vIdxQ

Bombing schools from the air is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:39:11 PM
Judging by the way in which he managed to keep AA separate to 'protect' her, there could have been several others he was 'protecting' in the same way. How would any of them have ever known?

Suspect this is how he was with JM & Anji  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 02:39:38 PM

Wasting my time. Jeremy never arranged the hit!

If so then he himself is a cold blooded killer.  Do you ever regret allowing such a person to be godfather to your own children?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 02:42:52 PM
If so then he himself is a cold blooded killer.  Do you ever regret allowing such a person to be godfather to your own children?


No, I have no regrets. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:45:01 PM
Lets face it, he doesn't try to disavow any of his supporters of other erroneous beliefs  ie; rabbits blood in silencer, Nevills call to the police, figure in the window etc..

or his legal teams
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 03, 2020, 02:45:50 PM
Bombing schools from the air is irrelevant.


You didn't liste to the video.

These people have no conscience.  They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power. 

Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 02:50:36 PM

You didn't liste to the video.

These people have no conscience.  They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power. 

Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.


Which is entirely academic if Nevill wasn't a Mason. Are you saying that the slaughter of an entire family, just to frame another family, was an "Ooops sorry. Got the wrong ones" moment?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:52:19 PM
One  has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who

How do you connect the dots if they aren’t sequentially numbered ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 02:54:56 PM

You didn't liste to the video.

These people have no conscience.  They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power. 

Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.

Why did Bamber refer to his sister as ‘narcissitical’ ?

LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993

This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.

What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 03:02:11 PM



One  has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who, what accusations have been made against them and take it from there.




But how is it relevant if Nevill wasn't a Mason?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 03:24:45 PM

You didn't liste to the video.

These people have no conscience. They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power. 

Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.

Bamber is without conscience AA
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 03, 2020, 03:32:03 PM
In the 18 years you and Bamber were in contact did he ever mention he was allegedly “sexually molested” when he was 11 years old?


”Close pal, Brett Collins, said: ”When Jeremy was 11 he was sexually molested by older boys and that deeply affected him."

Bamber left school with no qualifications but his father still financed a trip to Australia and New Zealand and a scuba diving course.

There have been claims while he was there he broke into a jewellery store and stole an expensive watch, which he then gave to a girlfriend back in the UK.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/sex-abuse-serial-killer-jeremy-21153790

Still think that watch he gave you is a fake

Why did he give you all these items anyway - he could have kept them or had them stored somewhere like Branston https://insidetime.org/branston-not-closing-down/
https://insidetime.org/property-at-branston/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 03, 2020, 03:48:40 PM
Why did Bamber refer to his sister as ‘narcissitical’ ?

Then change his mind here https://www.theguardian.com/uk/audio/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-audio (5:03)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 07:49:06 PM
First I must say I find Aunt Agatha a joy to debate with, she is very honest, holds to her personal beliefs firmly and I respect that. I apologise to her if my replies were too direct.

The evidence collected by police doesn't exclude there being an accomplice or third party involved in the murders but if there was, they would have to have had Jeremy Bamber's full cooperation to do so.

For all we know, Jeremy Bamber entered the farmhouse and let someone in and between them they carried out their dire deeds. In fact, that would explain one mystery and that is where was Sheila when June and Nevill were being beaten and murdered? It would take an accomplice to restrain Sheila while the other killer ran amok in the farmhouse.

Was the story Jeremy Bamber told Julie Mugford about the hitman a total fabrication?  Possibly not. Maybe there was some truth in that story after all but Bamber changed the name so as to get Mugford off his back.  Was the name Matthew McDonald the first name that came to him so he chose to put her off the scent by claiming that it was McDonald and not he that pulled the trigger?

These are the questions that only Jeremy Bamber knows the answers to.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: barrier on May 03, 2020, 07:55:45 PM
First I must say I find Aunt Agatha a joy to debate with, she is very honest, holds to her personal beliefs firmly and I respect that. I apologise to her if my replies were too direct.

The evidence collected by police doesn't exclude there being an accomplice or third party involved in the murders but if there was, they would have to have had Jeremy Bamber's full cooperation to do so.

For all we know, Jeremy Bamber entered the farmhouse and let someone in and between them they carried out their dire deeds. In fact, that would explain one mystery and that is where was Sheila when June and Nevill were being beaten and murdered? It would take an accomplice to restrain Sheila while the other killer ran amok in the farmhouse.

Was the story Jeremy Bamber told Julie Mugford about the hitman a total fabrication?  Possibly not. Maybe there was some truth in that story after all but Bamber changed the name so as to get Mugford off his back.
Neither Bamber or any supposed accomplish is going to fess up,it makes sense though.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 08:00:20 PM
First I must say I find Aunt Agatha a joy to debate with, she is very honest, holds to her personal beliefs firmly and I respect that. I apologise to her if my replies were too direct.

The evidence collected by police doesn't exclude there being an accomplice or third party involved in the murders but if there was, they would have to have had Jeremy Bamber's full cooperation to do so.

For all we know, Jeremy Bamber entered the farmhouse and let someone in and between them they carried out their dire deeds. In fact, that would explain one mystery and that is where was Sheila when June and Nevill were being beaten and murdered? It would take an accomplice to restrain Sheila while the other killer ran amok in the farmhouse.

Was the story Jeremy Bamber told Julie Mugford about the hitman a total fabrication?  Possibly not. Maybe there was some truth in that story after all but Bamber changed the name so as to get Mugford off his back.


Such an irony, then, that Jeremy is doing life whilst the accomplice is free. If Jeremy implicates the accomplice, it makes him culpable. He's stuffed and there's SFA he can do about it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2020, 08:00:56 PM
Neither Bamber or any supposed accomplish is going to fess up,it makes sense though.

Another piece of the puzzle was the mad scramble to get cash after the murders. Did Jeremy Bamber have to pay someone and quickish.  His old pal Brett Collins certainly doesn't believe him any more. I wonder what Aunt Agatha thinks of that revelation?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 03, 2020, 08:02:12 PM
First I must say I find Aunt Agatha a joy to debate with, she is very honest, holds to her personal beliefs firmly and I respect that. I apologise to her if my replies were too direct.

The evidence collected by police doesn't exclude there being an accomplice or third party involved in the murders but if there was, they would have to have had Jeremy Bamber's full cooperation to do so.

For all we know, Jeremy Bamber entered the farmhouse and let someone in and between them they carried out their dire deeds. In fact, that would explain one mystery and that is where was Sheila when June and Nevill were being beaten and murdered? It would take an accomplice to restrain Sheila while the other killer ran amok in the farmhouse.

Was the story Jeremy Bamber told Julie Mugford about the hitman a total fabrication?  Possibly not. Maybe there was some truth in that story after all but Bamber changed the name so as to get Mugford off his back.  Was the name Matthew McDonald the first name that came to him so he chose to put her off the scent by claiming that it was McDonald and not he that pulled the trigger?

These are the questions that only Jeremy Bamber knows the answers to.

I've never fully rejected this theory, although I doubt even a mercenary would murder children.

I think Bamber told JM a version of the facts, perhaps in his hubris he had to boast to someone and he thought she  would never say anything.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 03, 2020, 08:08:39 PM
I've never fully rejected this theory, although I doubt even a mercenary would murder children.

I think Bamber told JM a version of the facts, perhaps in his hubris he had to boast to someone and he thought she  would never say anything.


However, Auntie A's theory re Nevill being privy to corruption in the highest positions of High Masonry only works if Nevill was a Mason, and there's nothing to suggest that he was or ever had been. I do wonder if this may have more to do with her personal conspiracy theories, than Jeremy Bamber per se?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 03, 2020, 08:27:54 PM

However, Auntie A's theory re Nevill being privy to corruption in the highest positions of High Masonry only works if Nevill was a Mason, and there's nothing to suggest that he was or ever had been. I do wonder if this may have more to do with her personal conspiracy theories, than Jeremy Bamber per se?

Good lord no. I was referring to the theory that Bamber hired a third party, told them how to get in the window and then make a call to him from WHF as related by Julie. Or the theory that JB and another carried the crime out together.

I'm afraid I don't take AA seriously at all. If some powerful elite wanted him bumped off, a farming or car accident would be much more likely than to stage a crime people would still be talking about 35 years later and AA doesn't explain why the gun was found on Sheila and not Jeremy in her scenario.

Still the most plausible explanation of JBs innocence I've heard though!   @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 11:43:57 AM


You know nothing about freemasonry.

I'm limited in what I can share on here, the best examples of what goes on in the Higher Ranks have been removed  due to restrictions on free speech and censorship.

https://youtu.be/SACHXYQgHPE



How would/could you know that I know nothing about the Freemasons?

My ex-husband was a mason, my late partner was a Master Mason, and by coincidence my later partner is also a mason. I’ve been to many, many Ladies Nights; I’ve read their book of verse (just some, which is absolutely beautiful), and for you to say I know nothing about it makes you look bonkers.




It’s an organisation not dissimilar to a private Gentleman's Club, where they meet up at their lodges and after going through their third degree (by invitation only) they are initiated. The reason most members are businessmen, high ranking police, royalty etc, is that they only invite respectable people of good character and as they all have to contribute money and host events (which are costly) they have to be comfortably off. They amass thousands of pounds for different charities and hospitals, and do more good than you’d ever know.

It’s true that they make contacts which can be beneficial to them in business, and they all have each other’s support, but everything they do is legal and IF one ever did do something wrong the SHAME put upon them would be huge. They’d be thrown out immediately, and besides losing every privilege they would be forever walking with their heads bowed in shame.

Women can actually become Masons too .They have their own separate lodges .

I can tell by your  thinking that you’ve developed this fairytale in your head hoping Jeremy was set-up by the Masons, but as you’ve searched for nonsense on the internet about the Freemasons you’re completely clueless and believe any old rubbish ignorant people put up.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2020, 12:04:49 PM


How would/could you know that I know nothing about the Freemasons?

My ex-husband was a mason, my late partner was a Master Mason, and by coincidence my later partner is also a mason. I’ve been to many, many Ladies Nights; I’ve read their book of verse (just some, which is absolutely beautiful), and for you to say I know nothing about it makes you look bonkers.




It’s an organisation not dissimilar to a private Gentleman's Club, where they meet up at their lodges and after going through their third degree (by invitation only) they are initiated. The reason most members are businessmen, high ranking police, royalty etc, is that they only invite respectable people of good character and as they all have to contribute money and host events (which are costly) they have to be comfortably off. They amass thousands of pounds for different charities and hospitals, and do more good than you’d ever know.

It’s true that they make contacts which can be beneficial to them in business, and they all have each other’s support, but everything they do is legal and IF one ever did do something wrong the SHAME put upon them would be huge. They’d be thrown out immediately, and besides losing every privilege they would be forever walking with their heads bowed in shame.

Women can actually become Masons too .They have their own separate lodges .

I can tell by your  thinking that you’ve developed this fairytale in your head hoping Jeremy was set-up by the Masons, but as you’ve searched for nonsense on the internet about the Freemasons you’re completely clueless and believe any old rubbish ignorant people put up. That’s probably why the sly sneaky JB got shot of you — he knew you were full of fantasies too and of no use to him. He couldn’t have you speaking on his behalf because people would have laughed their heads off. I dare say you irritated him with your bizarre ideas and you’re very lucky he did cease contact with you, otherwise he may have caused you to do things you’d later bitterly regret.
 You’re living in cloud cuckoo land.

Agreed
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 12:25:11 PM


How would/could you know that I know nothing about the Freemasons?

My ex-husband was a mason, my late partner was a Master Mason, and by coincidence my later partner is also a mason. I’ve been to many, many Ladies Nights; I’ve read their book of verse (just some, which is absolutely beautiful), and for you to say I know nothing about it makes you look bonkers.




It’s an organisation not dissimilar to a private Gentleman's Club, where they meet up at their lodges and after going through their third degree (by invitation only) they are initiated. The reason most members are businessmen, high ranking police, royalty etc, is that they only invite respectable people of good character and as they all have to contribute money and host events (which are costly) they have to be comfortably off. They amass thousands of pounds for different charities and hospitals, and do more good than you’d ever know.

It’s true that they make contacts which can be beneficial to them in business, and they all have each other’s support, but everything they do is legal and IF one ever did do something wrong the SHAME put upon them would be huge. They’d be thrown out immediately, and besides losing every privilege they would be forever walking with their heads bowed in shame.

Women can actually become Masons too .They have their own separate lodges .

I can tell by your  thinking that you’ve developed this fairytale in your head hoping Jeremy was set-up by the Masons, but as you’ve searched for nonsense on the internet about the Freemasons you’re completely clueless and believe any old rubbish ignorant people put up.




I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree.  Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.

Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.

I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult.  We are talking the worst of the worst!

So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.

https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2020, 12:46:03 PM



I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree.  Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.

Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.

I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult.  We are talking the worst of the worst!

So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.

https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI

Wonder what the 18 years of prison case files say about you and Bamber’s relationship ?

Did you ever get any feedback from him when his telephone calls between you both were listened into?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 12:47:08 PM
Taking into account what I've just shared I amm NOT stating or suggesting or implying that neville was involved in any of this however one could understand why his wife was so religious.  She possibly knew what was going on, or heard about it and she did all she could to protect herself and her family.  Neville would have been protected.

So my question again is.. What if Neville knew something and had evidence.  These masons are not to be messed with.  Neville was probably a liability.

Dont forget the phone call that neville received before the shootings. The phone call that supposedly frightened him.

Was he threatened?

In addition, Chelmsford is a hotbed of satanic freemasonry.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 12:52:42 PM



I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree.  Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.

Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.

I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult.  We are talking the worst of the worst!

So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.

https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI


Auntie A, you could equally well apply most of what you claim to Jehovah's Witnesses -and just about every other organization- I've read the most horrendous things involving incest and ostracizing of those who don't conform to the strictures imposed within JW ranks, but those Witnesses known to me, and whom I've regarded as friends, are nothing like the monsters described in the media. I fully recall a case in Scotland, which allegedly involved children being used in satanic rituals. Numerous children were removed from their parents whilst the claims were being investigated and the children put through one form of abuse in the search for evidence of another -God alone knows what lasting damage that did- it turned out that none of the claims were true.

 It causes me to ask another question, AA. From where do you think they acquire all the children necessary for their amusement? Do you believe babies are being farmed for the purpose? Are there women who are happy to give birth to babies who are to be nothing more than fodder for the appetites of pedophiles? I'd be really happy to hear your thoughts on how such things can be organized. They don't JUST happen. There has to be a wider story.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 04, 2020, 12:54:43 PM

In addition, Chelmsford is a hotbed of satanic freemasonry.

I've not seen that on Tripadvisor
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
Taking into account what I've just shared I amm NOT stating or suggesting or implying that neville was involved in any of this however one could understand why his wife was so religious.  She possibly knew what was going on, or heard about it and she did all she could to protect herself and her family.  Neville would have been protected.

So my question again is.. What if Neville knew something and had evidence.  These masons are not to be messed with.  Neville was probably a liability.

Dont forget the phone call that neville received before the shootings. The phone call that supposedly frightened him.

Was he threatened?

In addition, Chelmsford is a hotbed of satanic freemasonry.


As there's no proof of Nevill ever having been involved in Masonry, there's no reason why he should have been.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 04, 2020, 12:58:28 PM
Taking into account what I've just shared I amm NOT stating or suggesting or implying that neville was involved in any of this however one could understand why his wife was so religious.  She possibly knew what was going on, or heard about it and she did all she could to protect herself and her family.  Neville would have been protected.

So my question again is.. What if Neville knew something and had evidence.  These masons are not to be messed with.  Neville was probably a liability.

Dont forget the phone call that neville received before the shootings. The phone call that supposedly frightened him.

Was he threatened?

In addition, Chelmsford is a hotbed of satanic freemasonry.

Can you remember when you called me about a case posted on Youtube about satanic child abuse and asked me to post it on the blue forum? That followed a similar theme but having watched the video you were concerned about, I was concerned that it was a hoax - it turned out to be a hoax and the mother of the children in question had coached them in order to get back at her husband.

I don't believe that Chelmsford is a hotbed for. satanic freemasonry - I am not sure where you are getting your info from but I would sincerely question it as I did with the instance above as you were completely convinced by that at the time.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 01:15:11 PM

As there's no proof of Nevill ever having been involved in Masonry, there's no reason why he should have been.


Maybe he did not participate. Maybe he paid his dues and did not actively take part... I don't know!!

All I'm asking is - what if he knew something?

What if he somehow became aware of this regarding one particular member, probably a recognised mp.

Lord Janner (a suspected paedophile, was Home Secretary at the time of the police operation.

I've got more names but dare not mention on here, however one did have charges against him and that politician Vaz tried to cover it up... And we know what Vaz is into!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 01:17:41 PM
Can you remember when you called me about a case posted on Youtube about satanic child abuse and asked me to post it on the blue forum? That followed a similar theme but having watched the video you were concerned about, I was concerned that it was a hoax - it turned out to be a hoax and the mother of the children in question had coached them in order to get back at her husband.

I don't believe that Chelmsford is a hotbed for. satanic freemasonry - I am not sure where you are getting your info from but I would sincerely question it as I did with the instance above as you were completely convinced by that at the time.



Hi Caroline, that was here in Hampstead.  It was not a hoax!

It was covered up but I'm aware of a few people pushing that still and have lots of evidence on dear man.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2020, 01:19:17 PM


Hi Caroline, that was here in Hampstead.  It was not a hoax!

It was covered up but I'm aware of a few people pushing that still and have lots of evidence on dear man.

Do you think it’s wise to be announcing where you are AA ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 01:20:18 PM

How are you suggesting that Nevill was involved at any level?



Please read my previous post.

I did not say he was... I stated I wasn't even suggesting or implying he was.

You do have to read the posts properly!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 01:22:37 PM

Maybe he did not participate. Maybe he paid his dues and did not actively take part... I don't know!!

All I'm asking is - what if he knew something?

What if he somehow became aware of this regarding one particular member, probably a recognised mp.

Lord Janner (a suspected paedophile, was Home Secretary at the time of the police operation.

I've got more names but dare not mention on here, however one did have charges against him and that politician Vaz tried to cover it up... And we know what Vaz is into!!


So your entire thesis actually rests on nothing more than "What if....". As I've said, there's no evidence, AT ALL, of Nevill ever having been a Mason. Masonry isn't one of those organizations to which members pay subs but don't participate, anymore than it's possible for Vaz and Nevill's paths to have crossed. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 01:24:13 PM


Please read my previous post.

I did not say he was... I stated I wasn't even suggesting or implying he was.

You do have to read the posts properly!


But without his involvement at some level -however innocent- it makes a complete nonsense of your thesis.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 01:25:20 PM

So your entire thesis actually rests on nothing more than "What if....". As I've said, there's no evidence, AT ALL, of Nevill ever having been a Mason. Masonry isn't one of those organizations to which members pay subs but don't participate, anymore than it's possible for Vaz and Nevill's paths to have crossed.


I doubt very much neville and vaz crossed paths.

That's yoursuggestion, not mine!


I think you need to go back and read very carefully and slowly my posts of today because you are asserting things I have not suggested or implied at all.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2020, 01:28:33 PM

I think you need to go back and read very carefully and slowly

Might be an idea you do the same with the CoA judgement in Bamber’s case

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 01:29:59 PM
As stated over the last few days, this is ONLY MY Theory of what took place that night.

It is based on what if's for sure?

I'm asking that you have an open mind and see how this plays out.

For me, looking at the outside events only, it fits in with everything Jeremy stated.

Sure, I could be wrong... I'm trying to debate it with you... Not convince you!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2020, 01:32:54 PM

 it fits in with everything Jeremy stated.


Like what ?

What could he have possibly said to make you believe what you do?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 04, 2020, 01:33:40 PM


Hi Caroline, that was here in Hampstead.  It was not a hoax!

It was covered up but I'm aware of a few people pushing that still and have lots of evidence on dear man.

Hi AA - it was indeed a hoax, the woman coached her kids to get back at her husband

This is the case in question.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32357195
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 01:38:45 PM
Hi AA - it was indeed a hoax, the woman coached her kids to get back at her husband

This is the case in question.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32357195


Caroline, if you want to believe the MSM, whis is a freemason propaganda narration, then be my guest.

I prefer to ask questions and not take anything the TE-LIE-VISION throws at me.

It's brainwashing!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 01:40:24 PM
As stated over the last few days, this is ONLY MY Theory of what took place that night.

It is based on what if's for sure?

I'm asking that you have an open mind and see how this plays out.

For me, looking at the outside events only, it fits in with everything Jeremy stated.

Sure, I could be wrong... I'm trying to debate it with you... Not convince you!


Auntie A, which is the most important issue for you? It appears to me that Jeremy Bamber, whom you believe is innocent, and pedophile parties involving High Masonry, and High just about everything else, are as polarized as it's possible for them to be. You seem to have fused them on the spurious and unfounded belief that Nevill was a Mason. Without that being fact, your claim doesn't hold water. The issues are entirely separate.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 01:42:21 PM

Auntie A, which is the most important issue for you? It appears to me that Jeremy Bamber, whom you believe is innocent, and pedophile parties involving High Masonry, and High just about everything else, are as polarized as it's possible for them to be. You seem to have fused them on the spurious and unfounded belief that Nevill was a Mason. Without that being fact, your claim doesn't hold water. The issues are entirely separate.


Then that's the end of it then!

Seems I don't need to try and debate this any longer.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 01:47:18 PM

Then that's the end of it then!

Seems I don't need to try and debate this any longer.


Well, if your thesis rests solely on Nevill having been involved with something there's no proof of him ever having been, perhaps it's time for you to have a rethink, at least until you can place him somewhere which makes your thesis work.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 04, 2020, 02:02:22 PM

Caroline, if you want to believe the MSM, whis is a freemason propaganda narration, then be my guest.

I prefer to ask questions and not take anything the TE-LIE-VISION throws at me.

It's brainwashing!!

No one has ever washed my brain, I don't believe everything I see or hear, I. do my own research which is why I believed Bamber innocent UNTIL I asked my own questions.  This is what happened in this hoax about case. https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/crime-court/timeline-how-fantasy-hampstead-satanic-abuse-cult-allegations-came-to-be-online-1-4001668

The man in question is still receiving death threats for this baseless crime - it's basically the internet gone mad. He's the victim. Without evidence AA this man is being hounded because people refuse to let go of the 'no smoke' adage.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
Hi AA - it was indeed a hoax, the woman coached her kids to get back at her husband

This is the case in question.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32357195


I cannot post anything else on this subject on here regarding the case, it's not right.

You stated the mother coached the children. It was a hoax.

Here is her polygraph. She passed!!

https://youtu.be/IpvucxGN3MM
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 02:10:41 PM

Well, if your thesis rests solely on Nevill having been involved with something there's no proof of him ever having been, perhaps it's time for you to have a rethink, at least until you can place him somewhere which makes your thesis work.


Never, have I stated neville was involved in anything!!

You make this stuff up as you go along April.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
No one has ever washed my brain, I don't believe everything I see or hear, I. do my own research which is why I believed Bamber innocent UNTIL I asked my own questions.  This is what happened in this hoax about case. https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/crime-court/timeline-how-fantasy-hampstead-satanic-abuse-cult-allegations-came-to-be-online-1-4001668

The man in question is still receiving death threats for this baseless crime - it's basically the internet gone mad. He's the victim. Without evidence AA this man is being hounded because people refuse to let go of the 'no smoke' adage.


People like her don’t care Caroline

Their self aggrandisement is more important to them
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 02:19:59 PM

Never, have I stated neville was involved in anything!!

You make this stuff up as you go along April.


I think you're reading me wrongly, Auntie A. I didn't mean that you were suggesting that Nevill was involved in anything nefarious, but in order to have 'known' anything involving High Masonry, he'd have HAD, at the very least, to be a Mason. That was what I meant by him being involved.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 04:03:06 PM
JM wasn't there she was in London. 

JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB. I would suggest the only reason JM did is that DS Jones threatened to throw the book at her if she didn't cooperate.  This was a young woman, just turned 21 yoa, who was holed up in a police training room for days on end prevented from having any contact with the outside world, not even a solicitor or her mother.

What on Earth are you talking about?!

Julie was his girlfriend on the night he murdered his family!

He phoned here, several times. She was brought down by the police. She stayed with him in Goldhanger; went to the funerals with him. Amsterdam.

Whatever are you on about???

As for suggesting DS Jones THREATENED Julie — SHE went to the police voluntarily.

Julie was never arrested!

Nor was she holed up! She was put in a safety house because they knew and feared Jeremy would come after her — which he tried to do.

How many MORE lies are you going to come out with in your desperate attempt to try and get this disgusting evil murderer an appeal? He must be laughing his head off at you, seeing how taken in you are by his insane lies!

And as for Angie, it seems she barely knew him that well so how could she say anything bad about him when he was wearing his “innocent mask? She was naive and gullible, obviously....she soon disappeared when he was found guilty! Why’s that do you think?


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 04, 2020, 04:04:24 PM
What on Earth are you talking about?!

Julie was his girlfriend on the night he murdered his family!

He phoned here, several times. She was brought down by the police. She stayed with him in Goldhanger; went to the funerals with him. Amsterdam.

Whatever are you on about???

As for suggesting DS Jones THREATENED Julie — SHE went to the police voluntarily.

Julie was never arrested!

Nor was she holed up! She was put in a safety house because they knew and feared Jeremy would come after her — which he tried to do.

How many MORE lies are you going to come out with in your desperate attempt to try and get this disgusting evil murderer an appeal? He must be laughing his head off at you, seeing how taken in you are by his insane lies!

And as for Angie, it seems she barely knew him that well so how could she say anything bad about him when he was wearing his “innocent mask? She was naive and gullible, obviously....she soon disappeared when he was found guilty! Why’s that do you think?

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 04:26:17 PM

With close friends and family members who are Masons, I can't accept your denigration of them. We all know that there are rotten apples in every barrel/walk of life. NO organization is free of them. I don't accept there are more within Masons' ranks than in any other. "Old boys" networks are found everywhere. We all enjoy "mates' rates". I see nothing wrong with putting in a good word/having a good word put in. It's what happens in ALL 'clubs'. People  point others in the right direction. Having said all of that, where is the proof, other than from Jeremy's mouth, that Nevill was ever a member of that organization you claim to be behind the murders?

Thank you, April, for putting AA right

I find it HUGELY insulting for her to say Freemasons are evil; worship the devil etc...it’s utter rubbish as you know!

My late partner who was a Master Mason of a well-known Lodge in London was the kindest, most caring, loving, charitable gentleman you could wish to meet. When idiots who have no idea whatsoever what Freemasonry is about, and because they have these little rituals that they keep secret — which are merely symbolic — naive people assume they must be in some kind of sect chopping up babies and making sacrifices! It’s absolutely ludicrous!

From what I can tell, it sounds like even the evil Jeremy Bamber couldn’t cope with Aunt Agatha’s crazy ideas, which is a MASSIVE insult!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 04:30:59 PM
I'm talking higher ranks... Not your friends April.  We're talking 30 degree plus.

What on Earth are you on about?

Please don’t tell me you live in Scotland and travelled all the way down to visit a psychopath?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 04:33:47 PM
She was there at the end of the phone Holly.She knows what Bamber said and what he had been saying for 18 months.

The rest is pure hogwash. What would DS Jones have thrown the book at her for if she hadn't told him everything in the first place? How many other people did she confide in before going to the police, was it 5?  Do you think that maybe something was on her mind that became increasingly difficult to deal with as the scales fell from her eyes?

I am biased when it comes to Julie though, she is utterly gorgeous in those pictures of her in 2002


Yes, Julie was gorgeous...far better than that psychopathic drip who posed like a pansy
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 04:48:36 PM
I have to say, one of the most godawful human beings I have ever known is very high up in the Masons. He is old and ill now, probably with not long to go, and if he believes in all that heaven and hell stuff he must be absolutely sh*tting himself.


Are you in the Masons, Puglove?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 04, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Yup, in the Mason's Arms every Friday night.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 05:02:29 PM
Hi AA, Jeremy told you that Nevill was a Mason and yet it isn't mentioned anywhere in his documented history. We know he was a magistrate and a church warden, that he was in the RAF and various other aspects of his life. However, no one at any time - not even CAL uncovered that he was in the Masons.

I think you're quite brave for posting your/his theory, you must have known it would lead to criticism and people would find it impossible to believe. But I have to say I can't buy it either. I think Bamber spun you a yarn and given your support of him in the early days, I think it shows his true character that he was prepared to believe others who he didn't know, rather then yourself who had gone out of your way to support him. He didn't deserve your loyalty then and he certainly doesn't deserve it now.


Caroline, Masons don’t keep it a secret from their family or loved ones. They don’t discuss it with strangers as they have no desire to, and they know fellow Masons when they’re introduced, anyway — everyone knows about the secret handshakes etc.

I’m convinced that had Nevill been a Mason, which he may well have as he seems to have been an astute businessman, his family would have known, I guarantee it.

They have certain clothes, books, white gloves etc that they take when they go to their lodge meetings. They always dress smartly in a suit and I can’t believe once a month Nevill would have gone out all smartly dressed, carrying a case, without his family wondering where he was going. They also receive mail in the post...events take place...they must have known.

Plus, they have Ladies nights, usually in plush hotels, where everyone dresses up in cocktail dresses/gowns, bands play, the most beautiful food and wines are served...

Had Nevill been a Mason his family would have known, and I guarantee he’d have invited suitable people to join too.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 04, 2020, 05:19:43 PM
Yup, in the Mason's Arms every Friday night.

I wish!!


(You cheeky sod, Myster      ?8)@)-) ).
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 05:21:53 PM

He has not permitted it. He doesn't know what I think.

I don’t think ANYONE knows what you think, Agatha

You haven’t got a CLUE what Freemasonry is about; you’ve read claptrap on the Internet written by ignorant clueless outsiders.

.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 05:28:56 PM

He has not permitted it. He doesn't know what I think.

But you said you told him that Nevill was a Freemason and he looked nervous, Agatha...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 05:30:43 PM
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.

One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.

You said he was nervous, Agatha...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 05:35:20 PM
I wish!!


(You cheeky sod, Myster      ?8)@)-) ).


Is he a particularly gorgeous one, pugs................the Mason, I mean!! Sorry, Myster
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 05:37:46 PM
I bet he does know that you're on here, Ags. Ermintrood and her herd will be keeping him posted.

Whoever Ermintrood is, she’s sure going to keep him busy for the next 15/20 years while he tries to work AA’s secret meanings on here,  on top of trawling through his 4M docs inspecting for typos 🤪

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 05:43:07 PM
Judging by the way in which he managed to keep AA separate to 'protect' her, there could have been several others he was 'protecting' in the same way. How would any of them have ever known?


Great point, April!

It fits so well!

He keeps all his supporters apart, except for his CT which he can’t...

Speaks volumes!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 04, 2020, 05:53:35 PM

Great point, April!

It fits so well!

He keeps all his supporters apart, except for his CT which he can’t...

Speaks volumes!

My spies tell me that there is a lot of boasting in a facebook group when someone receives a letter and quite a lot of jealousy from those yet to receive a reply.

No doubt this gets reported back and he enjoys the fact that they are competing for his attention while he conducts  them like an orchestra.

 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 05:54:44 PM
Totally agree, the freemasons are nothing more than an old boys network, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine...wink wink. They also provide funds to good causes and the elderly.  AA has been reading too much crap on the internet imo.

Absolutely 100% correct, Angelo!

Thank you

I’m glad you , a moderator has said this, it’s exactly as you say and all this ludicrous nonsense coming from those who are clueless should stop their silly nonsense — the Masons do SO much for charity, a HUGE amount — and they do it quietly, not for applaud.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 06:17:52 PM



I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree.  Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.

Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.

I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult.  We are talking the worst of the worst!

So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.

https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI


Agatha, I’ve been as tolerant as possible with your ridiculous slurs against a society you’re totally clueless about.

Let me tell you now, NO Freemason would EVER betray their brotherhood — even if they had been thrown out. So all the rubbish you read online made up by people who aren’t nor ever have been in the Masons, just proves how very, very gullible you are.

A Freemason becomes one when they pass their third degree — which is where the term “giving me the third degree” originated.

In Scotland they call it 30 or 33rd (Im not sure, and I’m not interested), but I suspect Agatha, that you’re Scottish...and you’ve Googled potty stuff on YouTube that’s all madness.

I’m fast losing interest, and if it wasn’t for lockdown I wouldn’t be replying to your posts.

I don’t want to be mean and insult you, you don’t sound nasty or horrid, but this is really off the scale now.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 06:21:02 PM
It doesn't matter at all how far fetched my theory is... Its of no consequence to Jeremy and his CT.

We all have our views based upon our own knowledge.  My knowledge just happens to be different to all of yours.

I do not believe that either Jeremy or Sheila did the shootings... The whole family are innocent victims of a professional hit and the only surviving member is locked away for 35 yrs.... With no light at the end of the tunnel.

It's a f..kin disgrace.  Seriously. 

As for the CT.... wtf!!


And they phoned Jeremy, posing as Nevill, begging him to come over?

Why would they do that?

Why not just leave him to find them all dead in the morning?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 06:29:08 PM
Perhaps you should try thinking about what you say.

I have. Things do become heated when passions are involved -I don't condone it in myself, or others. That's how it is.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 06:43:45 PM

You didn't liste to the video.

These people have no conscience.  They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power. 

Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.


So what you’re saying is these people (whoever they were) killed Nevill, June, Sheila and the two twins soz Jeremy could inherit the lot?

How would that help them retain their wealth, Agatha, when Jeremy would have inherited the lot?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 04, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
No! I never stated any of that!

Another one that wants to mislead.

You’re dreadful,
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 07:29:43 PM
It's strange how unpleasant people can become when convinced they're right. June Bamber bullied and dominated her daughter, accusing her of fornication and calling her names like "the Devil's child". It never occured to her that her opinions and behaviour could be wrong.

 June was not alone in her beliefs of what was right and 'proper'. It's part of the human condition. Some find it easier than others to hold their hands up to it, but who, of us, likes being wrong?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2020, 07:43:09 PM
June was not alone in her beliefs of what was right and 'proper'. It's part of the human condition. Some find it easier than others to hold their hands up to it, but who, of us, likes being wrong?

That's no excuse for the things she said and did to her daughter. It's not about being right or wrong imo, it's about treating others with respect, even if they have different opinions.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 07:51:32 PM
That's no excuse for the things she said and did to her daughter. It's not about being right or wrong imo, it's about treating others with respect, even if they have different opinions.


Oh but I never said it was right. I said it was the human condition.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2020, 08:02:36 PM

Oh but I never said it was right. I said it was the human condition.

Humans aren't all alike they experience and react to 'the human condition' differently. You only have to read internet forums to see that.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2020, 08:04:17 PM
Your anger seems so unnecessary unless you have a personal involvement with the family? We can hear you're passionate about his guilt. Others are equally so about his innocence. There'd be nothing of interest about a forum on which everyone thought the same. Deep breaths might help.

Common courtesy would be a start.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 08:08:56 PM
Humans aren't all alike they experience and react to 'the human condition' differently. You only have to read internet forums to see that.


Did I say they didn't? What I said was "June was not alone". The way June was is part of the human condition. Why are trying to make an argument of it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Common courtesy would be a start.

Yes, and it would have been courteous (and not cruel) had you asked your friend to keep her little dog in another room instead of kicking it hard in its nose making it yelp in pain and forever being terrified of you — which made you SMIRK when your friend said how he kept his distance from you....
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 08:19:46 PM
Humans aren't all alike they experience and react to 'the human condition' differently. You only have to read internet forums to see that.

Thank God for that!

Just imagine having the world inhabited by cruel, nasty, vindictive creatures!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 04, 2020, 08:27:34 PM
It shows a complete lack of maturity when someone resorts to making it personal because someone doesn't share their views whether it be this case or any other subject.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2020, 08:58:23 PM

Did I say they didn't? What I said was "June was not alone". The way June was is part of the human condition. Why are trying to make an argument of it?

Sorry, I got the impression you were excusing her behaviour.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 04, 2020, 09:00:16 PM
Sorry, I got the impression you were excusing her behaviour.

You excuse Jeremy's all of the time. Personally, I don't think JUne is any worse than any other overbearing parent.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 09:01:36 PM
As per usual your assertions are baseless.

Anyone can look through my post history and decide whether or not I've denigrated SC in the way you've asserted.

I’ve seen it with my own eyes — and I have the screenshots.

You denigrate a young, beautiful, sweet mother who was just 27 sleeping at home, where she should have been safe with her two little adorable boys, and yes, she may have suffered horrible problems through no fault of her own, but you frequently try to make her out to be mad, crazy, cruel, insane, wicked, a tart...and the killer you are besotted with knows that...he knows what you write. All this rubbish you say that you haven’t heard from him in two years...do you think people are simple?

Even if Sheila  HAD been the murderer (which she wasn’t, as it was proven) why would her brother allow you to denigrate her so badly? If he thought she was insane he would feel pity all round: why would he want you besmirching her and trying to turn her into an evil, crazy?

Your condescending controlled responses show me how deeply insincere you are, and I believe you DO know he killed them all.

I just can’t understand how ANYONE can feel sympathy for a cold-hearted, psychopathic, convicted mass-murderer , who fired seven bullets into their sweet little faces as they were all cosy in bed, sleeping, their small hands probably cuddling their teddy bears, one sucking his thumb, their blond locks on the pillow....and Jeremy stared at them, aimed the rifle and smashed their faces and heads to bits.

Don’t DARE make excuses for that monster.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 04, 2020, 09:03:38 PM
Sorry, I got the impression you were excusing her behaviour.


Explaining -even understanding- is neither excusing nor condoning.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Admin on May 04, 2020, 09:31:19 PM
I have given posters some leeway today but I see my leniency has been misinterpreted. I have removed all posts which breach the forum rules. Please comment sensibly everyone and above all, keep it polite.

Admin
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 09:48:39 PM
Good lord no. I was referring to the theory that Bamber hired a third party, told them how to get in the window and then make a call to him from WHF as related by Julie. Or the theory that JB and another carried the crime out together.

I'm afraid I don't take AA seriously at all. If some powerful elite wanted him bumped off, a farming or car accident would be much more likely than to stage a crime people would still be talking about 35 years later and AA doesn't explain why the gun was found on Sheila and not Jeremy in her scenario.

Still the most plausible explanation of JBs innocence I've heard though!   @)(++(*


I agree with some of your thoughts, CS (and you always make such good ones), and I can see where you’re coming from here.

But there’s too many factors which show Jeremy did this all alone.

Firstly, he wouldn’t have got a hitman as he couldn’t afford it: no hitman would kill two little boys — and they’d balk at killing women too. To get a hitman to do such a heinous deed would cost THOUSANDS, many thousands, and Jeremy never have had that kind of money — even after the murders. Hitmen want paying at least half upfront , and he had nothing. Hitmen won’t kill a family in their house: they’ll kill a man on the street or on their doorstep. They won’t step foot in their house.



Hitmen wouldn’t deal with Bamber: he was a braggart, show-off, unstable...too risky.

Hitmen, crazy as it sounds have morals, albeit warped. They’ll kill a drug dealer, a man who’s ripped someone off, occasionally a cheating husband; but they don’t kill innocent women and children.

Hitmen do it anonymously when least expected, they don’t break into properties to kill a family of five.

Hitmen don’t run through fields...they have a stolen getaway car/bike which they burn out miles away from the scene. I know this, because it happened in the next road to where I used to live — I’ll find the link.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 10:41:15 PM
It shows a complete lack of maturity when someone resorts to making it personal because someone doesn't share their views whether it be this case or any other subject.

It shows desperation when one has to resort telling disgraceful lies about a victim of murder to try and make the perp look in a better light
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 11:01:19 PM



I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree.  Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.

Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.

I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult.  We are talking the worst of the worst!

So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.

https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI


That video is total crap.

He was never a Freemason, he didn’t even know the basic symbols and signs which he’d have shown from the start. He’s lying. . Had he really been a Mason, he’d NEVER had posted such lies on YouTube. He’s made himself look an idiot.

Surely you know there’s nutters all over the Internet?😳

You MUST so, AA...




Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 11:23:12 PM



I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree.  Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.

Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.

I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult.  We are talking the worst of the worst!

So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.

https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI


Considering you don’t know any Freemasons nor ever have, how can you tell me that “lower” Masons are fine?

You wouldn’t know a Freemason if you met them im the street, Agatha.

And once a Mason has passed the third agree they’re ALL Masons. Some fo on to being Master Masons (as my late partner was), but they’re all one — their titles are symbolic. They do everything together.

You’ve no idea about them except for nutty videos you’ve watched...which are all BS

Besides which, this has nothing to do with Nevill, nor has it anything to do with why Jeremy murdered his family
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 11:33:46 PM
Many of the posts on this thread are totally unacceptable.  The worst offenders can expect further action.

I tell what’s unacceptable, murdering your family

Jeremy, being arrogant , didn’t expect further action, did he? He wrongly thought he’d bamboozled the police.

And then he got his just desserts...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 04, 2020, 11:44:26 PM
No! I never stated any of that!

It's misleading.


You dint answer my question, Agatha?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 05, 2020, 08:24:59 AM
It shows desperation when one has to resort telling disgraceful lies about a victim of murder to try and make the perp look in a better light

I don't believe anyone on this forum has told lies about any of the deceased victims.  If you believe otherwise then please identify the posts.  If you're unable to then please desist with these claims.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 05, 2020, 08:37:55 AM
You dint answer my question, Agatha?

No one is obliged to post a reply to a post. 

You might find posts forthcoming if you ask politely.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 05, 2020, 11:59:25 AM



I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree.  Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.

Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.

I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult.  We are talking the worst of the worst!

So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.

https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI

AA, if Nevill was a FM, it would have been mentioned and there is nothing.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 05, 2020, 12:01:29 PM
AA, if Nevill was a FM, it would have been mentioned and there is nothing.

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2020, 05:20:08 PM

It would be wise not to reply to Insulting Comments.  Otherwise your Comment could be Deleted also.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
Appears Bamber discarded Poppy Ann Miller a few years ago

“I corresponded by letter and email with Jeremy Bamber for six years from 2011, he also telephoned me on a regular basis”

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 06, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
Appears Bamber discarded Poppy Ann Miller a few years ago

“I corresponded by letter and email with Jeremy Bamber for six years from 2011, he also telephoned me on a regular basis”

https://poppyannmiller.blogspot.com/2019/04/sample-from-my-book-jeremy-bamber-cui.html

I had a short conversation with Ms Miller once. I read some of her awful blog and then asked her if she had got a publisher yet.

Blocked.

Here is a short sample:
 
Sipping on my glass of red I wandered through the kitchen and out into my garden, admiring the success of my green-fingered efforts in such a restricted growing environment. Revelling in the surge of pleasure that the blackbirds had honoured my plot again and that their sheer perseverance in nest-building in the grapevine overhanging the pergola had once again produced a late brood.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Admin on May 07, 2020, 09:54:58 AM
It is the convention on this forum that posters stick to acknowledged facts where possible. If you have a theory, by all means let us explore it but please do not post opinion as fact.

I have removed some posts which breach these conditions.

Admin.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 01:31:14 PM
Appears Bamber discarded Poppy Ann Miller a few years ago

“I corresponded by letter and email with Jeremy Bamber for six years from 2011, he also telephoned me on a regular basis”


I had a short conversation with Ms Miller once. I read some of her awful blog and then asked her if she had got a publisher yet.

Blocked.

Here is a short sample:
 
Sipping on my glass of red I wandered through the kitchen and out into my garden, admiring the success of my green-fingered efforts in such a restricted growing environment. Revelling in the surge of pleasure that the blackbirds had honoured my plot again and that their sheer perseverance in nest-building in the grapevine overhanging the pergola had once again produced a late brood.

By Poppy Ann Miller
Now it might be that Julie Mugford, the relatives and Essex Police were subject to different motivations. Mugford - jealous, having discovered that Jeremy had been two-timing her, also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation.
The relatives? Possibly threatened with losing their financial status if Jeremy inherited the property - but Essex Police officers?


Poppy Ann Miller claims to be a ‘Psychodynamic counsellor’

Sounds to me Ms Miller has yet to explore the emotional and psychologically abusive relationship JM found herself in ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 01:44:01 PM
By Poppy Ann Miller
Now it might be that Julie Mugford, the relatives and Essex Police were subject to different motivations. Mugford - jealous, having discovered that Jeremy had been two-timing her, also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation.
The relatives? Possibly threatened with losing their financial status if Jeremy inherited the property - but Essex Police officers?


Poppy Ann Miller claims to be a ‘Psychodynamic counsellor’

Sounds to me Ms Miller has yet to explore the emotional and psychologically abusive relationship JM found herself in ?

No doubt ‘the relatives’ would also have been subjected to this type of behaviour from Bamber
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 07, 2020, 03:01:52 PM
No doubt ‘the relatives’ would also have been subjected to this type of behaviour from Bamber

If Jeremy Bamber was raised like his sister he would have had no experience of how to behave in a spontaneous loving relationship. Sheila told Colin Caffell that she was only allowed to play with her mother or sit on her father's knee at certain times of the day. It wasn't allowed at other times. June begged to have the twins at the farm, but left them in the care of a village girl while she went out and did other things. [ISOTRE by CC]
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 03:28:35 PM
If Jeremy Bamber was raised like his sister he would have had no experience of how to behave in a spontaneous loving relationship. Sheila told Colin Caffell that she was only allowed to play with her mother or sit on her father's knee at certain times of the day. It wasn't allowed at other times. June begged to have the twins at the farm, but left them in the care of a village girl while she went out and did other things. [ISOTRE by CC]

What has Bamber ever said of this ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 03:44:21 PM
By Poppy Ann Miller
Now it might be that Julie Mugford, the relatives and Essex Police were subject to different motivations. Mugford - jealous, having discovered that Jeremy had been two-timing her, also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation.
The relatives? Possibly threatened with losing their financial status if Jeremy inherited the property - but Essex Police officers?


This statement by Poppy Ann Miller

also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation“

suggests maybe subconsciously she knows Bamber is guilty

What reason would JM have to know anything about joint enterprise legislation ? What a bizarre statement to make

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 04:43:23 PM
”The Court of Appeal needs to acknowledge miscarriages of justice – and ensure that they don’t occur in the future”
(2018)
https://www.thejusticegap.com/the-court-of-appeal-needs-to-acknowledge-miscarriages-of-justice-and-ensure-that-they-dont-occur-in-the-future/

What if the cases are of innocence fraud?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2020, 04:52:58 PM
This statement by Poppy Ann Miller

also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation“

suggests maybe subconsciously she knows Bamber is guilty

What reason would JM have to know anything about joint enterprise legislation ? What a bizarre statement to make


Lucky girl!! A student having to work to pay for university, being able to afford the flight to Canada at around 19 years of age!!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Lucky girl!! A student having to work to pay for university, being able to afford the flight to Canada at around 19 years of age!!!

Lots of university students travel the world at that age
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2020, 05:19:24 PM
Lots of university students travel the world at that age


Which is fine when they can afford it, or have parents who can fund it. Julie had been at university since she left school and was needing to work to pay her way.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 05:23:12 PM

Which is fine when they can afford it, or have parents who can fund it. Julie had been at university since she left school and was needing to work to pay her way.

Did her parents help fund her trip to Canada - or had she saved up her wages?

Not sure what point you are trying to make April?

I posted
This statement by Poppy Ann Miller

also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation“

suggests maybe subconsciously she knows Bamber is guilty

What reason would JM have to know anything about joint enterprise legislation ? What a bizarre statement to make

And you replied
Which is fine when they can afford it, or have parents who can fund it. Julie had been at university since she left school and was needing to work to pay her way.

I don’t follow?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2020, 05:34:17 PM
Did her parents help fund her trip to Canada - or had she saved up her wages?

Not sure what point you are trying to make April?

I posted
And you replied
I don’t follow?


Sorry Nicholas. My reply was a tad sarcastic. I've heard this Canadian drugs story on blue and I've always disputed it. I was questioning how she could have afforded the flight to/stay in Canada, basically when she was still in school. She was only just over 19 when she first met Jeremy so it must have been prior to then. I don't think she came from the sort of family who could afford such a trip and the only money she had was what she earned doing odd jobs.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 07, 2020, 05:42:10 PM

Sorry Nicholas. My reply was a tad sarcastic. I've heard this Canadian drugs story on blue and I've always disputed it. I was questioning how she could have afforded the flight to/stay in Canada, basically when she was still in school. She was only just over 19 when she first met Jeremy so it must have been prior to then. I don't think she came from the sort of family who could afford such a trip and the only money she had was what she earned doing odd jobs.


Yes, Julie would have been on a student grant, and would have had to work during the holidays to pay for "extras". I hadn't heard that she went to Canada, although I know she lives there now.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 07, 2020, 05:45:27 PM
I don't remember reading anything about Julie visiting Canada, nor about the ludicrous accusation that she returned with any drugs.  After the trial, redtop payout and graduation, yes Julie did emigrate but I'm not sure if that included a promised job placement there as well.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 07, 2020, 05:46:02 PM
Did her parents help fund her trip to Canada - or had she saved up her wages?

Not sure what point you are trying to make April?

I posted
And you replied
I don’t follow?

The is no evidence of a trip to Canada, think that might be a myth.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 07, 2020, 05:48:29 PM
This statement by Poppy Ann Miller

also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation“

suggests maybe subconsciously she knows Bamber is guilty

What reason would JM have to know anything about joint enterprise legislation ? What a bizarre statement to make

I believe Julie answered this at the time.  She said that she didn't take Jeremy and his rantings too seriously. After all, what girlfriend would believe those claims and not run a mile? 

Answer: A brave one indeed!

In the end Julie was only too glad to have police protection knowing that Bamber was safely locked up.

(https://jeremybambercampaign.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/muggy1.jpg)

Julie Mugford leaves court under police protection.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2020, 05:54:03 PM
I don't remember reading anything about Julie visiting Canada, nor about the ludicrous accusation that she returned with any drugs.  After the trial, redtop payout and graduation, yes Julie did emigrate but I'm not sure if that included a promised job placement there as well.


Her husband and his family all lived in Canada. They met somewhere other than whilst they were both on holiday. Married in a village about 4 miles from me, and went back to Canada. As Caroline said, it's probably all myth. It was pushed very hard on blue but at least we now know from whom it originated.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 07, 2020, 05:58:04 PM

Her husband and his family all lived in Canada. They met somewhere other than whilst they were both on holiday. Married in a village about 4 miles from me, and went back to Canada. As Caroline said, it's probably all myth. It was pushed very hard on blue but at least we now know from whom it originated.

The Jeremy Bamber forum (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php) has promoted so much utter balderdash over the years that it's undoubtedly a mammoth embarrassment to Bamber now.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 06:02:43 PM

Sorry Nicholas. My reply was a tad sarcastic. I've heard this Canadian drugs story on blue and I've always disputed it. I was questioning how she could have afforded the flight to/stay in Canada, basically when she was still in school. She was only just over 19 when she first met Jeremy so it must have been prior to then. I don't think she came from the sort of family who could afford such a trip and the only money she had was what she earned doing odd jobs.

Don’t suppose JM’s parents finances were relevant to Bamber’s murder trial

What ‘sort of family’ do you mean?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 07, 2020, 06:03:44 PM
The is no evidence of a trip to Canada, think that might be a myth.

Her husband and his family all lived in Canada. They met somewhere other than whilst they were both on holiday. Married in a village about 4 miles from me, and went back to Canada. As Caroline said, it's probably all myth. It was pushed very hard on blue but at least we now know from whom it originated.
Chinese Chelmsford Whispers...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 06:04:30 PM
The is no evidence of a trip to Canada, think that might be a myth.

Wasn’t me who suggested there was?

Thanks for clarifying though
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 07, 2020, 06:05:46 PM
Chinese Chelmsford Whispers...

I like it...   @)(++(*  8@??)(
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 06:07:50 PM
Is this why Poppy Ann Miller was discarded ?

NB: Edited my original post and removed Ms Millers libellous statement
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 07, 2020, 06:19:01 PM
The Jeremy Bamber forum (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php) has promoted so much utter balderdash over the years that it's undoubtedly a mammoth embarrassment to Bamber now.

You would think so but doesn't seem to find his own CT embarrassing and he has recently recycled the old police fired the second shot conspiracy from blue.

I'm sure the CCRC await his sensible and "strong package" with uncontained excitement. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2020, 06:20:22 PM
Don’t suppose JM’s parents finances were relevant to Bamber’s murder trial

What ‘sort of family’ do you mean?


Her mum worked. I've no idea what her stepfather did, She had a brother. They were what I'd call an 'ordinary' family but I accept the word is as meaningful as "normal"!!! Let's say, they weren't in the same bracket as the Bambers.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2020, 06:22:20 PM
You would think so but doesn't seem to find his own CT embarrassing and he has recently recycled the old police fired the second shot conspiracy from blue.

I'm sure the CCRC await his sensible and "strong package" with uncontained excitement.


The trouble is, when some people passionately want something to be true, they're inclined to say things which appear to make it so.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 06:32:44 PM
Poppy Ann Miller does have a disclaimer at the foot of her blog, it reads:

“Disclaimer: the views expressed here and elsewhere by PoppyMeze Poppy Ann Miller represent its own passing opinions offered under protection of Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (the "Convention"), which has been incorporated into UK law by the Human Rights Act 1998. No allegations are made by PoppyMeze Poppy Ann Miller and/or therein implicit.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 07, 2020, 06:35:12 PM

The trouble is, when some people passionately want something to be true, they're inclined to say things which appear to make it so.

Indeed. All these people seem to have decided that JB is innocent before they even looked at any evidence and then they apply the JB innocence filter to their perception of anything and everything.

I refuse to believe that they don't realise that at least some of the guff they are peddling is utter nonsense though.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 07, 2020, 06:41:43 PM
Poppy Ann Miller does have a disclaimer at the foot of her blog, it reads:

“Disclaimer: the views expressed here and elsewhere by PoppyMeze Poppy Ann Miller represent its own passing opinions offered under protection of Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (the "Convention"), which has been incorporated into UK law by the Human Rights Act 1998. No allegations are made by PoppyMeze Poppy Ann Miller and/or therein implicit.


Oooh! That's a bit crafty, isn't it? She can come out with as much c**p as she feels like slinging, then write a disclaimer which says she hasn't made any allegations!!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 06:44:21 PM

Oooh! That's a bit crafty, isn't it? She can come out with as much c**p as she feels like slinging, then write a disclaimer which says she hasn't made any allegations!!!

Won’t make any difference if JM decides to take legal action

And it appears her behaviour dates back at least as far as 2011/12 ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 07, 2020, 06:45:38 PM

Her mum worked. I've no idea what her stepfather did, She had a brother. They were what I'd call an 'ordinary' family but I accept the word is as meaningful as "normal"!!! Let's say, they weren't in the same bracket as the Bambers.

Definitely not. Julie was born in North London, not far from where I grew up. Certainly an "ordinary" area, and it wasn't/isn't uncommon for families from that area to move out to Essex later.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 06:48:06 PM
Indeed. All these people seem to have decided that JB is innocent before they even looked at any evidence and then they apply the JB innocence filter to their perception of anything and everything.

I refuse to believe that they don't realise that at least some of the guff they are peddling is utter nonsense though.

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 07, 2020, 06:53:09 PM
8((()*/

Surely, one would have to look at some evidence, to "decide" JB is innocent?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 07, 2020, 07:01:54 PM
Surely, one would have to look at some evidence, to "decide" JB is innocent?

You would think so - but not.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 07:02:14 PM
Surely, one would have to look at some evidence, to "decide" JB is innocent?

Have never believed him innocent but would like to know how Poppy Ann Millers ‘research’ came upon the Canada BS
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 07, 2020, 07:04:28 PM
Wasn’t me who suggested there was?

Thanks for clarifying though

I know, I was answering your query - it was said on the blue forum at some point and gets repeated on occasion.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 07:16:12 PM
I know, I was answering your query - it was said on the blue forum at some point and gets repeated on occasion.

And I unwittingly repeated it - cheers for highlighting my error  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 07, 2020, 07:19:55 PM
Won’t make any difference if JM decides to take legal action

And it appears her behaviour dates back at least as far as 2011/12 ?

I would imagine we have just doubled the visitor figures to Ms Millers blog so doubt that JM is in the slightest bit bothered about what some failed writer puts in a forgotten corner of the internet. Suing her would only cause the Streisand effect anyway.

The bit that made me laugh was the copyright disclaimer, as if anyone would want to claim that work as their own.  @)(++(*

 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 07, 2020, 07:23:56 PM
Suing her would only cause the Streisand effect anyway. 

It could be dealt with without causing the Streisand effect

Though suspect Ms Miller will remove eventually - as she’s done with previous blogs
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 07, 2020, 09:35:02 PM
And I unwittingly repeated it - cheers for highlighting my error  8((()*/

Perhaps it originated from Poppy, I'm not sure but she does seem to get things confused.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 08, 2020, 04:48:47 PM
Definitely not. Julie was born in North London, not far from where I grew up. Certainly an "ordinary" area, and it wasn't/isn't uncommon for families from that area to move out to Essex later.


Which part of north London are you referring to, MrsWah?

As a Londoner myself I know that there’s some tatty parts of north London, but also some incredibly beautiful parts where properties cost millions. Highgate/Hampstead, for example. There’s also some very nice parts with tree-lined avenues, gorgeous Victorian/Edwardian/Georgian houses in less salubrious areas...in fact, even the tatty parts are expensive.

It’s irrelevant, anyway, as you don’t know what Julie’s financial circumstances were. You don’t know if she had savings; a small inheritance from one of her grandparents...you’ve not idea. You don’t know if she maxed out her credit cards to travel...you’re making suppositions based on what you IMAGINE.

How do you know she didn’t have relatives in Canada? It isn’t the first country that springs to mind when students travel on a gap year...

Incidentally, Julie met her husband in 1990, in either England or Europe. After they married she moved with him to Canada as he was Canadian and they decided to settle there.🤷‍♀️
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2020, 05:46:44 PM
Perhaps it originated from Poppy, I'm not sure but she does seem to get things confused.

There’s a thread here https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1022578334235062273 with Poppy Ann Miller

& Michelle Diskin Bates where she, MDB, again falsely claims

Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@GrahameVincent1
@PoppyMeze
 and 2 others
You’re right they can. However, this case is one I recall happening live on my TV. I listened as news reports spoke of someone pacing by the window with a rifle. Police would not storm the house because they might spook the person inside. JB was outside with police. Theres more!
9:24 PM · Jul 26, 2018·Twitter for iPad

The following didn’t get a single like or retweet

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
NEW Vlog: I read a heartfelt & emotional letter from #JeremyBamber to his parents https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4 
@channel5_tv
8:32 PM · Feb 29, 2016·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/704403833749905408
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
 *&^^&

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Big shout out on #InternationalWomensDay2020 to all the female warriors fighting for truth & justice.  Mothers, sisters, wives, partners & friends who all too often get vilified by misogynistic and stereotypical attitudes of women as justice campaigners #Solidarity
12:38 PM · Mar 8, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1236632469689991168


Tru Benjamin
@tru68
@jbcampaignltd
 #JeremyBamber Campaign Patron
@Michelle_Diskin
 - Miscarriage of Justice victims have complex needs and need considerable support.   Why was Barry George inexplicably put under a MAPPA order on release?  #StandingAgainstInjustice
@IoJustice
 #CardiffIOJ2019


https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1109432396393385990
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 08, 2020, 06:40:41 PM
There’s a thread here https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1022578334235062273 with Poppy Ann Miller

& Michelle Diskin Bates where she, MDB, again falsely claims

Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@GrahameVincent1
@PoppyMeze
 and 2 others
You’re right they can. However, this case is one I recall happening live on my TV. I listened as news reports spoke of someone pacing by the window with a rifle. Police would not storm the house because they might spook the person inside. JB was outside with police. Theres more!
9:24 PM · Jul 26, 2018·Twitter for iPad

The following didn’t get a single like or retweet

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
NEW Vlog: I read a heartfelt & emotional letter from #JeremyBamber to his parents https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4 
@channel5_tv
8:32 PM · Feb 29, 2016·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/704403833749905408

If there is one thing that makes me doubt anyone's claims of innocence, it's an endorsement from MDB.

Barry George 'inexplicably' under MAPPA?  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 08, 2020, 06:44:45 PM
If there is one thing that makes me doubt anyone's claims of innocence, it's an endorsement from MDB.

Barry George 'inexplicably' under MAPPA?  *&^^&

"Pacing by the window with a rifle"?  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on May 08, 2020, 06:48:29 PM
"Pacing by the window with a rifle"?  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

I think she recorded it on her sky go.  *%87
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 08, 2020, 06:58:23 PM

Which part of north London are you referring to, MrsWah?

As a Londoner myself I know that there’s some tatty parts of north London, but also some incredibly beautiful parts where properties cost millions. Highgate/Hampstead, for example. There’s also some very nice parts with tree-lined avenues, gorgeous Victorian/Edwardian/Georgian houses in less salubrious areas...in fact, even the tatty parts are expensive.

It’s irrelevant, anyway, as you don’t know what Julie’s financial circumstances were. You don’t know if she had savings; a small inheritance from one of her grandparents...you’ve not idea. You don’t know if she maxed out out her credit cards to travel...you’re making suppositions based on what you IMAGINE.

How do you know she didn’t have relatives in Canada? It isn’t the first country that springs to mind when students travel on a gap year...

Incidentally, Julie met her husband in 1990, in either England or Europe. After they married she moved with him to Canada as he was Canadian and they decided to settle there.🤷‍♀️

According to Carol Ann Lees book JM met her husband in Australia

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA401&lpg=PA401&dq=jeremy+bamber+medical+records&source=bl&ots=jQH_R2y9x2&sig=ACfU3U3p2kQikaaZjnxEhSV4fwCJ04H2TQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTnaS66aTpAhV3VxUIHaUlB9E4FBDoATANegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20medical%20records&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 08, 2020, 07:00:13 PM
According to Carol Ann Lees book JM met her husband in Australia

She did.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 08, 2020, 09:03:08 PM

Which part of north London are you referring to, MrsWah?

As a Londoner myself I know that there’s some tatty parts of north London, but also some incredibly beautiful parts where properties cost millions. Highgate/Hampstead, for example. There’s also some very nice parts with tree-lined avenues, gorgeous Victorian/Edwardian/Georgian houses in less salubrious areas...in fact, even the tatty parts are expensive.

It’s irrelevant, anyway, as you don’t know what Julie’s financial circumstances were. You don’t know if she had savings; a small inheritance from one of her grandparents...you’ve not idea. You don’t know if she maxed out out her credit cards to travel...you’re making suppositions based on what you IMAGINE.

How do you know she didn’t have relatives in Canada? It isn’t the first country that springs to mind when students travel on a gap year...

Incidentally, Julie met her husband in 1990, in either England or Europe. After they married she moved with him to Canada as he was Canadian and they decided to settle there.🤷‍♀️

I never claimed to know anything about Julie's financial circumstances as an adult. I was merely replying to another poster having suggested  that her family were not as wealthy as the Bambers!


 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 09, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
I never claimed to know anything about Julie's financial circumstances as an adult. I was merely replying to another poster having suggested  that her family were not as wealthy as the Bambers!

Yes, you did reply to another poster and you wrote:


“Definitely not. Julie was born in North London, not far from where I grew up. Certainly an "ordinary" area, and it wasn't/isn't uncommon for families from that area to move out to Essex later.”


So your inference was that because Julie was brought up in an “ordinary” area near you, she couldn’t have travelled to Canada...

As you rightly now say, you didn’t know Julie’s finances, so where she brought up isn’t significant...

In any event, it seems this trip to Canada may have been a rumour started by someone who lacks knowledge, or wanted to create a fairy story...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 09, 2020, 10:57:03 AM
Yes, you did reply to another poster and you wrote:


“Definitely not. Julie was born in North London, not far from where I grew up. Certainly an "ordinary" area, and it wasn't/isn't uncommon for families from that area to move out to Essex later.”


So your inference was that because Sheila was brought up in an “ordinary” area near you, she couldn’t have travelled to Canada...

As you rightly now say, you didn’t know Julie’s finances, so where she brought up isn’t significant...

In any event, it seems this trip to Canada may have been a rumour started by someone who lacks knowledge, or wanted to create a fairy story...


No, my inference was NOT that she couldn't have travelled to Canada. I wasn't even thinking about her travelling to Canada (which, as far as I know, she didn't do anyway. ).

BTW, I think you mean Julie, not Sheila!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 09, 2020, 11:12:41 AM

No, my inference was NOT that she couldn't have travelled to Canada. I wasn't even thinking about her travelling to Canada (which, as far as I know, she didn't do anyway. ).

BTW, I think you mean Julie, not Sheila!

Thank you, I've corrected my mistake 🙂
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down
.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’



Question for Aunt Agatha

Was Bamber talking to Virginia or Anji (Angela) Greaves ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 02:33:18 PM
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’



What does Virginia Greaves statement say exactly?

Presumably CAL has taken,

Julie’s just put her wrists through the window‘
 
from VG’s WS statement but wouldn’t this have alarmed VG? Did she tell her sister Anji ? And if so what did Anji’s WS statement say ?

Or did Anji Greaves refuse to give police a WS?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 02:42:35 PM
What does Virginia Greaves statement say exactly?

Presumably CAL has taken,

Julie’s just put her wrists through the window‘
 
from VG’s WS statement but wouldn’t this have alarmed VG? Did she tell her sister Anji ? And if so what did Anji’s WS statement say ?

Or did Anji Greaves refuse to give police a WS?

That Julie was crackers as well?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 03:26:02 PM
That Julie was crackers as well?

Bamber most definitely appears to have wanted to give Virginia or Anji or both that impression doesn’t he

There’s no evidence however that JM did this
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 03:33:15 PM
Bamber most definitely appears to have wanted to give Virginia or Anji or both that impression doesn’t he

There’s no evidence however that JM did this

But I thought Julie said she had done that.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 03:35:52 PM
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’



Did Virginia Greave cover for Bamber and her sister Anji and tell police it was her on the phone to Bamber as opposed to Anji?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 09, 2020, 04:35:11 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589428#msg589428

I don't do any SM other than here.

In answer to your other question I've no idea who feels abused by JB. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 09, 2020, 07:22:47 PM
That Julie was crackers as well?

I suppose if you’ve been sucked in by a psycho for two years it could send you crackers...until you see th light

As for Julie pitting her hand through the window — who said that?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 09, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
Surely, one would have to look at some evidence, to "decide" JB is innocent?

That’s a tough one.

The jury found him GUILTY

SO WHOEVER this “one” is who’s desperate to pretend he’s innocent has rather a task on their hands, no?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 09, 2020, 07:30:04 PM
*&^^&

Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Big shout out on #InternationalWomensDay2020 to all the female warriors fighting for truth & justice.  Mothers, sisters, wives, partners & friends who all too often get vilified by misogynistic and stereotypical attitudes of women as justice campaigners #Solidarity
12:38 PM · Mar 8, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1236632469689991168


Tru Benjamin
@tru68
@jbcampaignltd
 #JeremyBamber Campaign Patron
@Michelle_Diskin
 - Miscarriage of Justice victims have complex needs and need considerable support.   Why was Barry George inexplicably put under a MAPPA order on release?  #StandingAgainstInjustice
@IoJustice
 #CardiffIOJ2019


https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1109432396393385990

Michelle Dustin writes remarkably like Holly — and also has a “Pete”.

We all have a “Pete” Dont we? 😌
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 09, 2020, 07:31:38 PM
Michelle Dustin writes remarkably like Holly — and also has a “Pete”.

We all have a “Pete” Dont we? 😌
Your powers of deduction know no beginning.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 07:31:54 PM
I suppose if you’ve been sucked in by a psycho for two years it could send you crackers...until you see th light

As for Julie pitting her hand through the window — who said that?

No idea.  There is so much contradictory evidence being posted.  And that's just from those who think Bamber is guilty.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 09, 2020, 07:32:59 PM
Bamber most definitely appears to have wanted to give Virginia or Anji or both that impression doesn’t he

There’s no evidence however that JM did this

As if...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 07:35:06 PM
I suppose if you’ve been sucked in by a psycho for two years it could send you crackers...until you see th light

As for Julie pitting her hand through the window — who said that?

According to CAL’s book this is what Bamber said to Virginia Greaves

Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

Here’s an expert:
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.

Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’


Did the antique dealers statement mention anything about JM throwing the ‘Chinese trick box’ at the mirror?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 07:46:27 PM
As if...

I don’t believe JM “put her wrists through the window” as Bamber’s meant to have claimed to Virginia

It’s obvious Bamber was by this point creating doubt in the minds of all those around him regarding JM

It’s what people like him do
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 09, 2020, 07:56:00 PM
I don’t believe JM “put her wrists through the window” as Bamber’s meant to have claimed to Virginia

It’s obvious Bamber was by this point creating doubt in the minds of all those around him regarding JM

It’s what people like him do
No mention of any rush to casualty for Julie's hand to be stitched up either.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:00:43 PM
No mention of any rush to casualty for Julie's hand to be stitched up either.

Because it’s BS
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:03:36 PM
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said.  Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...

'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.
Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.
When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’


Bamber started seeing Anji Greaves on the 18th August 1985 - If it was Virginia Greaves on the phone to Bamber then JM was mistaken over who she thought Bamber was cheating on her with
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
This is getting ridiculous.  Exactly who was he cheating on who with whom?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:14:19 PM
This is getting ridiculous.  Exactly who was he cheating on who with?

According to Anji Greaves interview in the Sun newspaper - which was published the day after Bamber was found guilty of murdering his family in October 1986 - she (Anji) claimed Bamber went to her flat in Kensington 2 days after the funerals.

She claimed Bamber made a pass at her on her sofa and they started kissing

In the same article she also claimed JM was ‘scorned’ and went to the police because of her not her sister Virginia.

Suspect it was Bamber who gave Anji Greaves the impression JM was scorned - as opposed to him being the scorned one

Bamber was most probably raging because JM did what she did
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 08:19:41 PM
According to Anji Greaves interview in the Sun newspaper - which was published the day after Bamber was found guilty of murdering his family in October 1986 - she (Anji) claimed Bamber went to her flat in Kensington 2 days after the funerals.

She claimed Bamber made a pass at her on her sofa and they started kissing

In the same article she also claimed JM was ‘scorned’ and went to the police because of her not her sister Virginia.

Suspect it was Bamber who gave Anji Greaves the impression JM was scorned - as opposed to him being the scorned one

Bamber was most probably raging because JM did what she did

Now I am really confused.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:23:15 PM
Now I am really confused.

The news article stated;

But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also lead to her downfall.

For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.

And she went to the police to tell them how Bamber wiped out his family so he could inherit a £600,000 fortune
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 08:28:16 PM
The news article stated;

But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also lead to her downfall.

For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.

And she went to the police to tell them how Bamber wiped out his family so he could inherit a £600,000 fortune


How did it lead to whose downfall?  Is that Anji, Virginia or Julie?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 09, 2020, 08:28:56 PM
According to Anji Greaves interview in the Sun newspaper - which was published the day after Bamber was found guilty of murdering his family in October 1986 - she (Anji) claimed Bamber went to her flat in Kensington 2 days after the funerals.

She claimed Bamber made a pass at her on her sofa and they started kissing

In the same article she also claimed JM was ‘scorned’ and went to the police because of her not her sister Virginia.

Suspect it was Bamber who gave Anji Greaves the impression JM was scorned - as opposed to him being the scorned one

Bamber was most probably raging because JM did what she did

Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 09, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?

It was either her, or she and her boyfriend persuaded Julie to do so. Can't remember exactly!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 08:33:31 PM
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?

Noooo, Pleeease, not another one.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:34:14 PM
The news article stated;

But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also lead to her downfall.

For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.

And she went to the police to tell them how Bamber wiped out his family so he could inherit a £600,000 fortune


Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy became lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than his with his sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:36:13 PM
How did it lead to whose downfall?  Is that Anji, Virginia or Julie?

It can be seen as confusing Eleanor because the false narrative runs so deep

And don’t suppose DI Miller meant to make things worse by claiming during the ‘crimes that shook Britain’ doc that JM was a jilted lover or whatever it is he said but it appears to me JM went to the police because she started to recognise she’d been duped
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 08:37:10 PM

No wonder some people think he is innocent.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:40:09 PM
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?

Liz Rimmington who also had sex with Bamber in 1984 whilst JM was on holiday in France

Bamber’s CT website evidences the fact he’d started to isolate JM from her friends

after bumping into Julie and Jeremy in August 1984 the girls began going out together a lot over the next four weeks. Following a night out, Liz telephoned Julie the next day and Jeremy answered the phone saying Julie didn’t want to speak to her or see her any more[2] without giving any reason, which baffled Liz.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 08:42:25 PM
The CT wrongly and falsely refer to JM as Bamber’s girlfriend but she was his EX girlfriend

Julie Mugford was the girlfriend of Jeremy Bamber who testified against him in court“
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk

His girlfriend was Anji Greaves

Anji Greaves had waited for the verdict in a hotel not far from Chelmsford with two friends and a journalist. Her room was decorated with ‘Welcome Home, Jeremy!’ banners, and she wore her glitziest outfit, with a bag packed; the journalist intended to write Jeremy’s story when he was acquitted and then hustle the couple off on holiday. But when the television news delivered the outcome, Anji walked out in a daze, narrowly avoiding being run over. She told the journalist: ‘I feel so much loyalty for Jeremy but I do not know if I can bring myself to go on visiting now. It could be a life sentence for both of us.’
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2020, 08:50:40 PM

Poor man.  All those jealous women squabbling over him and dropping him in it if they lost.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 09:01:28 PM
It can be seen as confusing Eleanor because the false narrative runs so deep

And don’t suppose DI Miller meant to make things worse by claiming during the ‘crimes that shook Britain’ doc that JM was a jilted lover or whatever it is he said but it appears to me JM went to the police because she started to recognise she’d been duped

JM was a victim of abuse
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 09:18:01 PM
From Bamber's CT website:

Thursday 15 August 1985 – Nevertheless, whatever rift occurred between Julie and Liz, all seemed well on the face of it during the summer of 1985. The evening before the funerals, Liz stayed the night at Jeremy’s cottage in Goldhanger. Julie and Brett Collins were also at Jeremy’s cottage and in her statement dated 23rd of September 1985 she stated: “I can say that on Thursday, the 15th August 1985, Liz Rimmington stayed overnight at Goldhanger. That evening she was left alone downstairs with Jeremy after Brett and I had gone to bed respectively.” It is possible that Julie suspected and feared that Liz and Jeremy once again had sex when she left them alone. Did this add to Julie’s existing anxieties about Jeremy’s unfaithfulness?
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 09:20:58 PM
more from Bamber’s website;

Tuesday 27 August 1985 – In her evidence dated the 8th and 9th of September 1985 Julie claimed that upon her return to Lewisham she went to a pizza restaurant with Sue Battersby, her flat mate and chequebook fraud accomplice, where she told Sue about Jeremy’s involvement in the murders. However, this apparent conversation does not appear in any of Sue’s witness evidence, which raises suspicion that it ever took place at all. Julie had been staying at Jeremy’s cottage in Goldhanger, but because Brett Collins was always, there she moved back to her accommodation in Lewisham on this date. Julie told Essex police that she suspected Jeremy was having a sexual relationship with Brett. [3]


Bamber was having sex with Anji Greaves because she told the nation via her interview with the Sun newspaper

Did Anji Greaves ever suspect Bamber of having sex with Brett Collins ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 09:29:39 PM
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?

DS Stan Jones pocket book. PDF “ Called out to Colchester re Bamber to 31 Alexander rd Colchester. The occupant (Malcolm Waters) rang called Rimmimgton & Julie Mugford Take by ?? to CW. (Witham)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 09:51:27 PM
JM was a victim of abuse

More evidence of the abusive relationship courtesy of the CT website

Sunday 1 September 1985 – Liz’s statement says that Julie had called her in floods of tears wanting to meet up[5]. Liz arranged for Julie to come to her place of work where Julie said that Jeremy had arranged to see her on the previous Saturday but had not turned up. Eventually he’d arrived at Julie’s that evening and said that he 'didn’t want to see her anymore' and that he had only been using her for his ‘own ends
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 10:03:01 PM
From Bamber's CT website:

Thursday 15 August 1985 – Nevertheless, whatever rift occurred between Julie and Liz, all seemed well on the face of it during the summer of 1985. The evening before the funerals, Liz stayed the night at Jeremy’s cottage in Goldhanger. Julie and Brett Collins were also at Jeremy’s cottage and in her statement dated 23rd of September 1985 she stated: “I can say that on Thursday, the 15th August 1985, Liz Rimmington stayed overnight at Goldhanger. That evening she was left alone downstairs with Jeremy after Brett and I had gone to bed respectively.” It is possible that Julie suspected and feared that Liz and Jeremy once again had sex when she left them alone. Did this add to Julie’s existing anxieties about Jeremy’s unfaithfulness?
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk

 *&^^&

Who wrote all this nonsense - Trudi Benjamin ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 10:32:16 PM
Who wrote all this nonsense - Trudi Benjamin ?

From here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk
Sunday 1 September 1985

Is it possible that now Julie had been dumped she was worried that Jeremy and Liz would rekindle their affair and start dating? Could it be likely that Julie wanted to make sure that Liz would not be interested in a relationship with Jeremy and that’s why she made up the story about him ordering a hit man to commit the murders? And was it the fact that her allegations were an invention that stopped Julie from approaching the police, even when she was advised to?

 *&^^&

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 09, 2020, 10:48:28 PM
From here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk

Sunday 1 September 1985

Is it possible that now Julie had been dumped she was worried that Jeremy and Liz would rekindle their affair and start dating? Could it be likely that Julie wanted to make sure that Liz would not be interested in a relationship with Jeremy and that’s why she made up the story about him ordering a hit man to commit the murders? And was it the fact that her allegations were an invention that stopped Julie from approaching the police, even when she was advised to?

 *&^^&

Who wrote this rubbish ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 11:44:09 AM
Liz Rimmington who also had sex with Bamber in 1984 whilst JM was on holiday in France

Saturday 7 September 1985 – In her 8th of September statement Liz says that she persuaded Julie to talk to Malcolm Waters, Liz’s ex-boyfriend, to get some advice. She said: “We arrived at Malcolm's house about 7.30 p.m. and eventually Julie told Malcolm what she had told me[7]. He then told her the same thing that I had told her about informing the police. She eventually agreed to do this.”
“As I didn’t know Julie I started to question her about whether she was saying those things because of her split with Jeremy and I tried to ascertain from her if Jeremy had told her anything which only the murderer would know or if there was anything she had not read in the papers.”


Did Malcolm Waters ever admit to having been duped by Bamber & did he know his ex Liz Rimmington had had sex with Bamber ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?

No idea how Bamber’s CT came to these conclusions

Saturday 7 September 1985 DS Stan Jones was contacted from Malcolm Waters’ home by telephone as recorded in Jones’ pocket notebook and arrangements were made to collect the two girls from Colchester to take them to the police station for questioning.[8] Clearly Julie Mugford did not ‘come forward offering information’ as she was pushed by Liz and Malcolm, and it is highly likely that the phone call to police was made by Malcolm from his home, probably against Julie’s wishes. The hit man story that Julie had made up to poison Liz against Jeremy had spiralled out of control and became the cornerstone of the prosecution case against Jeremy Bamber.

Malcolm Waters: “As I didn’t know Julie I started to question her about whether she was saying those things because of her split with Jeremy and I tried to ascertain from her if Jeremy had told her anything which only the murderer would know or if there was anything she had not read in the papers.

Wasn’t Malcolm Waters the owner of Sloppy Joes where Liz Rimmimgton was the manageress; where Bamber had also worked ?

Was he also the owner of the Frog and Bean wine bar ?

MD and MW sold the wine bar and bought Sloppy Joes
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 12:44:38 PM
Saturday 7 September 1985 – In her 8th of September statement Liz says that she persuaded Julie to talk to Malcolm Waters, Liz’s ex-boyfriend, to get some advice. She said: “We arrived at Malcolm's house about 7.30 p.m. and eventually Julie told Malcolm what she had told me[7]. He then told her the same thing that I had told her about informing the police. She eventually agreed to do this.”
“As I didn’t know Julie I started to question her about whether she was saying those things because of her split with Jeremy and I tried to ascertain from her if Jeremy had told her anything which only the murderer would know or if there was anything she had not read in the papers.”


Did Malcolm Waters ever admit to having been duped by Bamber & did he know his ex Liz Rimmington had had sex with Bamber ?

No idea how Bamber’s CT came to these conclusions

Saturday 7 September 1985 DS Stan Jones was contacted from Malcolm Waters’ home by telephone as recorded in Jones’ pocket notebook and arrangements were made to collect the two girls from Colchester to take them to the police station for questioning.[8] Clearly Julie Mugford did not ‘come forward offering information’ as she was pushed by Liz and Malcolm, and it is highly likely that the phone call to police was made by Malcolm from his home, probably against Julie’s wishes. The hit man story that Julie had made up to poison Liz against Jeremy had spiralled out of control and became the cornerstone of the prosecution case against Jeremy Bamber.

Malcolm Waters: “As I didn’t know Julie I started to question her about whether she was saying those things because of her split with Jeremy and I tried to ascertain from her if Jeremy had told her anything which only the murderer would know or if there was anything she had not read in the papers.

Wasn’t Malcolm Waters the owner of Sloppy Joes where Liz Rimmimgton was the manageress; where Bamber had also worked ?

Was he also the owner of the Frog and Bean wine bar ?


“Malcolm told the Star in 1986 that Jeremy was ‘a Walter Mitty type. He dreams up situations and convinces himself it’s true. At certain periods he was very much a loner.’ He sensed that Jeremy ‘was easily led and susceptible to others’ and ‘always looking for affection, especially from girls.’

(From ‘The Murder at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=malcolm+waters+colchester&source=bl&ots=jQH-JZyewW&sig=ACfU3U30rayKNacZiDjpUq3KqVMQKnzlsQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcvt6FmqnpAhWPiFwKHawFAwgQ6AEwAnoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=malcolm%20waters%20colchester&f=false)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 01:34:09 PM
“Malcolm told the Star in 1986 that Jeremy was ‘a Walter Mitty type. He dreams up situations and convinces himself it’s true. At certain periods he was very much a loner.’ He sensed that Jeremy ‘was easily led and susceptible to others’ and ‘always looking for affection, especially from girls.’

(From ‘The Murder at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=malcolm+waters+colchester&source=bl&ots=jQH-JZyewW&sig=ACfU3U30rayKNacZiDjpUq3KqVMQKnzlsQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcvt6FmqnpAhWPiFwKHawFAwgQ6AEwAnoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=malcolm%20waters%20colchester&f=false)

Wonder if Malcolm Walters senses of Bamber have since changed?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 01:36:00 PM
“Malcolm told the Star in 1986 that Jeremy was ‘a Walter Mitty type. He dreams up situations and convinces himself it’s true. At certain periods he was very much a loner.’ He sensed that Jeremy ‘was easily led and susceptible to others’ and ‘always looking for affection, especially from girls.’

(From ‘The Murder at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=malcolm+waters+colchester&source=bl&ots=jQH-JZyewW&sig=ACfU3U30rayKNacZiDjpUq3KqVMQKnzlsQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcvt6FmqnpAhWPiFwKHawFAwgQ6AEwAnoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=malcolm%20waters%20colchester&f=false)

Suspect Bamber was looking for his next victim
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 01:46:51 PM
From here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk

Did Bamber’s CT pay the actresses to perform in the above video?

Has anyone listened to it ? 

@)(++(* @)(++(*

And did JM ever refer to Bamber as the ‘devil incarnate’ ?

If not, why have the CT suggested - via their actresses, she did?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 02:07:52 PM
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk

Is it true, following the murders, Bamber ‘still had access to guns’ as suggested in the vid above?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 10, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
Suspect Bamber was looking for his next victim

Promiscuous.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 03:02:34 PM
Promiscuous.

Whatever his ‘motivation, their goals are to manipulate, dominate and control, and they will end up devaluing and abusing their victim.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11477.msg589552#msg589552
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 03:39:03 PM
Who wrote this rubbish ?

Virginia Greaves is even mentioned in Bamber's CT audio BS ?!?

Bamber was ‘seeing’ Anji Greaves NOT her sister Virginia!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 10, 2020, 04:16:25 PM
Who wrote this rubbish ?

Julie didn't know that Liz slept with Jeremy so whoever did write it, got it wrong.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 04:33:05 PM
Julie didn't know that Liz slept with Jeremy so whoever did write it, got it wrong.

And she never smuggled drugs from Canada but that also been repeated in the podcast  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 04:35:27 PM
What does Bamber’s solicitor Mark Newby have to say about all this ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 10, 2020, 04:42:26 PM
By chance, I recently stumbled upon a 2 part podcast on the Simon Hall case

It was grossly misleading and contained numerous factual errors

Not dissimilar to Bamber’s CT BS
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 11, 2020, 12:02:54 PM
I honestly do believe, based on my early conversations with Jeremy, before the rest of the info was given to us, purely as a distraction, that thus was a prefessiinal job done made to look like Jeremy did it.

Aunt Agatha appears to know all the evidence points to Bamber
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 11, 2020, 12:15:00 PM

I cannot post anything else on this subject on here regarding the case, it's not right.

You stated the mother coached the children. It was a hoax.

Here is her polygraph. She passed!!

https://youtu.be/IpvucxGN3MM

‘It is bunkum’

https://barristerblogger.com/2015/03/24/the-hampstead-so-called-satanic-cult-should-be-a-warning-to-the-credulous/?fdx_switcher=true

The belief in a Satanic abuse conspiracy is the product of unhinged minds, and should be treated as such. It is incredible that in this day and age doctors, social workers and police officers should take seriously what is obviously self-contradicting nonsense without the slightest basis in reality. And yet it is. And until such a time as these delusions are fully exposed for what they are they must be disproved and discredited on every occasion they make their appearance. https://bfms.org.uk/hampstead-satanic-cult-hoax/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 11, 2020, 12:53:25 PM
What’s David on about here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10256.msg479314.html#msg479314


It seems to me that Newby has deleted posts on his website endorsing the imaginary 999 call from Nevil.

At least he is getting in the right direction
.


Does Mark Newby have a website?

What is David suggesting has been removed?

Is this to do with current legal proceedings ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 11, 2020, 04:25:54 PM
more from Bamber’s website;

Tuesday 27 August 1985 – In her evidence dated the 8th and 9th of September 1985 Julie claimed that upon her return to Lewisham she went to a pizza restaurant with Sue Battersby, her flat mate and chequebook fraud accomplice, where she told Sue about Jeremy’s involvement in the murders. However, this apparent conversation does not appear in any of Sue’s witness evidence, which raises suspicion that it ever took place at all. Julie had been staying at Jeremy’s cottage in Goldhanger, but because Brett Collins was always, there she moved back to her accommodation in Lewisham on this date. Julie told Essex police that she suspected Jeremy was having a sexual relationship with Brett. [3]


Bamber was having sex with Anji Greaves because she told the nation via her interview with the Sun newspaper

Did Anji Greaves ever suspect Bamber of having sex with Brett Collins ?

JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd

And there appears to have been a new appointment of a Thomas Walker on 17th March 2020https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history

Along with the many other lies and defamatory statements Bamber’s CT website states something about JM & LR and a trip to Malta ?


Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.

Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 11, 2020, 04:54:04 PM
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd

And there appears to have been a new appointment of a Thomas Walker on 17th March 2020https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history

Bamber’s CT website states something about JM & LR and a trip to Malta ?


Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.

Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false

Was Anji Greaves aware of the above?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 11, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd

And there appears to have been a new appointment of a Thomas Walker on 17th March 2020https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history

Along with the many other lies and defamatory statements Bamber’s CT website states something about JM & LR and a trip to Malta ?


Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.

Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false

The audios on the JB Campaign ltd website also contain slander

Libel and slander both involve a statement being ‘published’, or communicated, to at least one other person, where that statement damages the person’s reputation. The primary difference between the two is the degree of permanence with which the statement is published.If the statement is made with a degree of permanence, this may be libel. Slander, on the other hand, is characterised by its impermanence, or transience.Generally, the distinction will be between oral and written statements, the former generally being slander and the latter libel. Slander, may, however, actually be libel if the oral statement is recorded, for example on tape or CD.
https://www.contactlaw.co.uk/-/867

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 11, 2020, 07:29:24 PM
Was Anji Greaves aware of the above?

Would she have still sold her story to the Sun if she’d have known about SF & ‘Anne’ ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 12, 2020, 01:13:34 PM
Aunt Agatha appears to know all the evidence points to Bamber

She also knows he’s greedy

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5009.msg214121.html#msg214121

Aunt A:
"I was not going to comment further however may I add at this point, Jeremy has NEVER had any problems in asking for money from those who he thinks has it, nor does he have a problem receiving it.
If one reads Daisy's post again she mentions 'lies'.....she would only know he was lying if she had asked  questions.....and she believed or knew he was lying to her.  I am also aware of this.
Secondly, maybe because she again asked questions as to where the money was going...what forensics etc.
When  Daisy also used the word 'generous' in her post....she means a little more than would be expected on a monthly basis going into his allowance.  This allowed him to buy stationary, christmas/birthday cards, make phone calls, send out documents recorded delivery etc.  Daisy never asked where the money went, however, it would have helped cover these costs on a monthly basis.....along with contributions from others of course. 
Have not spoken with her and I would not ask her directly so I cannot confirm the above as they are only my thoughts......but pride and money.........where Jeremy is concerned I would not use them in the same sentence if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 12, 2020, 03:10:04 PM
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
Matthew McDonald

Julie Mugford’s ficticious account of the hit man candidly shows how she was prepared to make up stories to #JeremyBamber’s detriment and in the wake of this further implicating another innocent man.

#WhiteHouseFarm
https://jeremybamber.org/matthew-mcdonald/
7:08 PM · Apr 2, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1245775008460419072

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 12, 2020, 05:09:48 PM
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
Matthew McDonald

Julie Mugford’s ficticious account of the hit man candidly shows how she was prepared to make up stories to #JeremyBamber’s detriment and in the wake of this further implicating another innocent man.

#WhiteHouseFarm
https://jeremybamber.org/matthew-mcdonald/
7:08 PM · Apr 2, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1245775008460419072

 *&^^&

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616 (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 12, 2020, 06:55:40 PM
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
Matthew McDonald

Julie Mugford’s ficticious account of the hit man candidly shows how she was prepared to make up stories to #JeremyBamber’s detriment and in the wake of this further implicating another innocent man.

#WhiteHouseFarm
https://jeremybamber.org/matthew-mcdonald/
7:08 PM · Apr 2, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1245775008460419072

 *&^^&

What Bamber did to JM is referred to as gaslighting

Gaslighting in interpersonal relationships often develops or builds on an existing power dynamic. While it’s most common in romantic settings, gaslighting can happen in any kind of relationship where one person is so important to the other that they don’t want to take the chance of upsetting or losing them, such as a boss, friend, sibling, or parent. Gaslighting happens in relationships where there is an unequal power dynamic and the target has given the gaslighter power and often their respect.
https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/12/19/18140830/gaslighting-relationships-politics-explained
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 11:36:54 AM
The audios on the JB Campaign ltd website also contain slander

Libel and slander both involve a statement being ‘published’, or communicated, to at least one other person, where that statement damages the person’s reputation. The primary difference between the two is the degree of permanence with which the statement is published.If the statement is made with a degree of permanence, this may be libel. Slander, on the other hand, is characterised by its impermanence, or transience.Generally, the distinction will be between oral and written statements, the former generally being slander and the latter libel. Slander, may, however, actually be libel if the oral statement is recorded, for example on tape or CD.
https://www.contactlaw.co.uk/-/867

Are JB Campaign Ltd allowed to obtain finance ie fundraising via inaccurate information ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 11:45:30 AM
What’s David on about here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10256.msg479314.html#msg479314


It seems to me that Newby has deleted posts on his website endorsing the imaginary 999 call from Nevil.

At least he is getting in the right direction
.


Does Mark Newby have a website?

What is David suggesting has been removed?

Is this to do with current legal proceedings ?

No idea what David was on about above but the CT website still has ‘the imaginary 999 call‘’ from NB here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/new-call-logs-evidence-oct-2019
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
Are JB Campaign Ltd allowed to obtain finance ie fundraising via inaccurate information ?

J B Campaign Ltd

Company No 09883616  Incorporated 23rd November 2015
Directors Patrick and Trudi Benjamin

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/09883616/J-B-CAMPAIGN-LTD/directors-secretaries

(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1450295412170/directors-and-management-team/Trudi%20Benjamin%202.jpg?height=320&width=247)

I am very pleased to announce the launch of The JB Campaign Limited, which is a ‘Not For Profit’ Private Limited Company. Having thought long and hard about the campaign to keep Jeremy’s case in the public domain and the issues that need resolving to get traction on an Appeal, the only conclusion was that we needed to be able to raise money.  Supporters often ask how they can make donations but in order to do this effectively and legitimately the decision was made by the campaign team to set up The Jeremy Bamber Campaign as a legal entity.

Our aim is to raise funds towards any legal or forensic costs not currently covered Pro Bono.  There will be an opportunity for people to give cash using a donate button on the website, we will be offering opportunities for appropriate advertising, along with a range of merchandise.   Other exciting projects are in the planning process and will be announced in due course.

I am very proud, alongside my husband Pat Benjamin, to be a Director of the organisation and we are delighted to be working with the Campaign Management Team to maintain a high standard of business and accounting practices.   In accordance, with requirements by Companies House, all monies will be accounted for and annual accounts will be filed.    The Directors and Management Team give their time and expertise for free.

The decision to generate revenue in this way was taken partly because of the denigration of legal aid and the funding crisis for prisoners such as Jeremy but also because of the outrage we feel at the continued wrongful conviction and 30-year loss of liberty of an innocent man.    Our hope is that campaigners and supporters, who feel as we do, will give generously to help Jeremy gain the freedom he so richly deserves.

Please look at the “Management Team” (http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/directors-and-management-team) to find out more about who we are and the 'Operations' page to find out how we work.

Thank you.

Trudi Benjamin

Managing Director/Spokesperson

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jb-campaign-ltd-and-directors



This organisation does not operate or support www.jeremybamberforum.co.uk and we nor Jeremy have any association with, or control over it.

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/about

The website in question contains numerous falsehoods, lies and indeed a wealth of libellous statements

On one of the audio recordings for example they’ve made claim JM ‘smuggled drugs from Cananda’ - Who made this up and why are JB Campaign ltd promoting this?

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 12:26:46 PM
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd

And there appears to have been a new appointment of a Thomas Walker on 17th March 2020https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history

Is Philip Walker here https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/01/annual-statement-with-trudi-benjamin.html (Photo of Trudi Benjamin, Director; Philip Walker,  Communications; Yvonne Hartley, Forensic Liaison; Dr Dennis Eady, Patron.)

linked to Thomas Walker ?


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 12:33:02 PM
Is Philip Walker here https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/01/annual-statement-with-trudi-benjamin.html (Photo of Trudi Benjamin, Director; Philip Walker,  Communications; Yvonne Hartley, Forensic Liaison; Dr Dennis Eady, Patron.)

linked to Thomas Walker ?

The following is from the link above

”Here’s an update on the campaign work in 2018.

At present the legal team are still in an ongoing dialogue with the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) on the non-disclosure of essential evidence. We are hoping the matter will draw to a close during February when Jeremy’s case will be referred to the Court of Appeal. 

We have continued to work with documentary makers, but despite a growing interest in Jeremy’s case by producers, there has been a lack of response from broadcasters. No less than 19 different production companies, all making approaches to different mainstream broadcasters and streaming channels, have approached the case in a number of different ways. One producer even received development funding in 2017, but the head of documentaries was changed, and he pulled the plug at the last minute. This is highly frustrating and of course extremely time consuming, but there are two documentary makers who have persisted in sticking with the case and pursuing our work, and we hope to have more success in early 2019. 

In the meantime we have also continued engagement with journalists and human rights campaigners who have followed the case for sometime. Again attempts at news articles are also met with limited success despite the research being carried out and access to evidence. Regardless of these setbacks we continue to make approaches to media outlets on a frequent basis and keep Jeremy’s profile high on social media. We were very pleased with the Guardian’s recent article on the CPS’s receipt of a new forensic report opening up key concerns about the evidence, and Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone reported this. This has helped to create more transparency around the actions of the CPS, which cannot go on in secret: the CPS must be held accountable for non-disclosure.

Our work with the Lords and MPs continues and we are currently recruiting for our Parliamentary Campaign Group, which will see further political pressure on the CPS to disclose all of the material they hold.

I have been part of a working group that includes representatives of JUSTICE, The Centre for Criminal Appeals, and Inside Justice, on designing a protocol to assist both police representatives and prosecutors in handling requests for post-conviction disclosure. In addition, the Centre for Criminal Appeals are to launch a campaign known as “Show Us The Evidence” which will help ensure that innocent prisoners and campaign groups like ours, doing the work of the CCRC, should have access to the evidence they need to defend those maintaining innocence.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 12:40:02 PM
We have continued to work with documentary makers, but despite a growing interest in Jeremy’s case by producers, there has been a lack of response from broadcasters. No less than 19 different production companies, all making approaches to different mainstream broadcasters and streaming channels, have approached the case in a number of different ways. One producer even received development funding in 2017, but the head of documentaries was changed, and he pulled the plug at the last minute. This is highly frustrating and of course extremely time consuming, but there are two documentary makers who have persisted in sticking with the case and pursuing our work, and we hope to have more success in early 2019

What are the names of the alleged 19 production companies ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
”Here’s an update on the campaign work in 2018.
In the meantime we have also continued engagement with journalists and human rights campaigners who have followed the case for sometime. Again attempts at news articles are also met with limited success despite the research being carried out and access to evidence. Regardless of these setbacks we continue to make approaches to media outlets on a frequent basis and keep Jeremy’s profile high on social media. We were very pleased with the Guardian’s recent article on the CPS’s receipt of a new forensic report opening up key concerns about the evidence, and Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone reported this. This has helped to create more transparency around the actions of the CPS, which cannot go on in secret: the CPS must be held accountable for non-disclosure. 


Sept 2018
”In May this year, Bamber’s lawyer Mark Newby received a letter from Frank Ferguson, head of special crimes at the CPS. He had written to the prosecutors’ office on the issue of two silencers being examined in the case but the jury only being told about one.
Although Ferguson stated “there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”, he added: “Any evidence that suggests that there was or may have been another silencer for the rifle would raise the possibility that the other silencer was used during the shooting and not the one alleged by the prosecution.
“Such a possibility would significantly undermine the case against JB [Jeremy Bamber] and any material supporting such a possibility would plainly be material which casts doubt on the safety of the conviction.”
July 2019
”The High Court has expressed concern about how much care the Crown Prosecution Service takes in reviewing decisions after intervening in what judges called a 'troubling case'.
Lady Justice Nicola Davies and Mrs Justice Farbey quashed the decision of a reviewing lawyer made in October not to prosecute a police officer for causing death by dangerous driving and/or causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving following a pursuit in 2016.

“The judgment, handed down last week, states that the review decision was made by barrister Frank Ferguson, head of special crime, deputy head of the special crime and counter terrorism division.

“For the reasons given above we find that the reviewing lawyer did not bring to his task that same care, thoroughness and detail. We are conscious that a broad commonsense approach should be taken to the reasoning in a review decision,  but when statements are made which are not easily identifiable in the evidence, that is a matter of concern. It is also reflective of the wider concern which the court has as to the care, thoroughness and detail which went into the writing of this review decision.'

More here https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/high-court-quashes-lawyers-decision-not-to-prosecute-police-driver/5071006.article

What did Bamber and his CT make of the revelations regarding Frank Ferguson from the CPS and why have they chosen to remain silent about these revelations?

Why was there no follow up article on this by Simon Hattenstone and Eric Allison?

Bamber and his CT cannot expect transparency if they are not transparent themselves
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 01:01:10 PM
”Here’s an update on the campaign work in 2018.
Our work with the Lords and MPs continues and we are currently recruiting for our Parliamentary Campaign Group, which will see further political pressure on the CPS to disclose all of the material they hold.

I have been part of a working group that includes representatives of JUSTICE, The Centre for Criminal Appeals, and Inside Justice, on designing a protocol to assist both police representatives and prosecutors in handling requests for post-conviction disclosure. In addition, the Centre for Criminal Appeals are to launch a campaign known as “Show Us The Evidence” which will help ensure that innocent prisoners and campaign groups like ours, doing the work of the CCRC, should have access to the evidence they need to defend those maintaining innocence.


Info re “Show us the evidence” campaign referred to above can be found here http://appeal.org.uk/show-us-the-evidence

An excerpt reads:

In America, access to material held by the police and prosecution has meant hundreds of innocent people have had their convictions overturned, through new forensic testing, and the discovery of leads to other suspects that were hidden at the original trial. Shows like Making a Murderer and Serial have laid the American criminal justice system’s flaws bare for all to see.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 13, 2020, 01:06:46 PM
My concern has only ever been about a Reasonable Doubt, of which I think there is.

The original investigation was inept to say the least.  And this will just not do.  Guilty or Innocent Jeremy Bamber had a right to a Fair Trial and this he did not get.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 01:16:15 PM
Without doubt Bamber has and is committing innocence fraud

John Collins, on Innocence Fraud here https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-roberta-glass-true-crime-r-30951716/episode/the-wrongful-conviction-of-forensic-science-52731384/

He refers to how ‘the drama of these types of cases impairs our ability to look at these cases objectively

with lots of help from his CT
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 13, 2020, 01:22:11 PM
My concern has only ever been about a Reasonable Doubt, of which I think there is.

The original investigation was inept to say the least.  And this will just not do.  Guilty or Innocent Jeremy Bamber had a right to a Fair Trial and this he did not get.

I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.

The story presented during Bamber’s trial was only ever a theory

A theory is a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained

Legal theory refers to the principle under which a litigant proceeds, or on which a litigant bases its claims or defenses in a case. It can also be the law or body of rules of conduct which are of binding legal force and effect, prescribed, recognized, and enforced by a controlling authority.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 01:34:10 PM
My concern has only ever been about a Reasonable Doubt, of which I think there is.

The original investigation was inept to say the least.  And this will just not do.  Guilty or Innocent Jeremy Bamber had a right to a Fair Trial and this he did not get.

Are you saying because the original investigation was ‘inept’ you believe Bamber’s trial shouldn’t have gone ahead? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 01:34:44 PM
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.
Bamber claimed his sister carried out the murders then killed herself

This was showed during his trial to be impossible
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 13, 2020, 01:37:12 PM
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.

Well, it was 1985.  Not a good time for Criminal Justice.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 13, 2020, 01:37:54 PM
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.

Do you actually think he's innocent or just that his case wasn't proven BRD? The m majority of that particular jury thought it was and that's what counts.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 13, 2020, 01:42:33 PM
Do you actually think he's innocent or just that his case wasn't proven BRD? The m majority of that particular jury thought it was and that's what counts.

I don't know what happened, but I'm not happy with the court decision. The jury delivered a verdict based on the evidence but if the evidence was dodgy then the jury's verdict was also dodgy.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 01:44:56 PM
I don't know what happened, but I'm not happy with the court decision. The jury delivered a verdict based on the evidence but if the evidence was dodgy then the jury's verdict was also dodgy.

The only ‘dodgy’ evidence appeared to be Bamber’s

Evidence that has come to light since the trial http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11477.0
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 13, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Are you saying because the original investigation was ‘inept’ you believe Bamber’s trial shouldn’t have gone ahead?

No.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 01:52:01 PM
No.

What do you believe was ‘inept’ about it and why ?

And what would you have done differently ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 13, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
What do you believe was ‘inept’ about it and why ?

It was a mess and the evidence presented was a mess.  But Juries in those days were more susceptible.  They charged him so it must be true.

Better that one Guilty man should go free than that Innocent men should be convicted.  Or Women, if you like.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Brietta on May 13, 2020, 02:06:41 PM
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.


I don't agree with either you or Eleanor on this one.

I often wonder what initial evidence was lost by the ineptitude of the handling of the crime scene and the lack of any eliminating procedures conducted on Bamber.  Although he had taken care to ensure there was an explanation should his hands have tested positive for gunshot residue; the destruction of the crime scene at the farm was inexcusable as was the unquestioned adoption of an unchecked narrative which to all intents and purposes solved the case.

The fact that there was still enough evidence to bring a successful prosecution in my opinion shows how much was lost in the first instance.

Bamber's own narrative pointed the finger at either himself or Sheila Caffell and I think the phone evidence was enough to play a huge part in calling his innocence into question.

I am new to learning about his support team but the fact that they place a lot of reliance on factoid and dissemination as pointed out in numerous posts on the forum rather weakens any case they may have had.

I think Bamber had a fair trial and that opinion is reinforced by his two failed appeals and his failed appeal to the ECHR? although I don't know much about it and I would be interested if anyone has information to hand about that.
I should really look for it myself but I can't be bothered particularly if the information is already on the forum.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Eleanor on May 13, 2020, 02:07:01 PM
What do you believe was ‘inept’ about it and why ?

And what would you have done differently ?

Ah Ha.  You slipped an extra question in there while my back was turned answering your first and only question at the time.

This won't do, of course.  I would have had your first question wiped from the records.  It is a dishonest thing to do.  So I won't be trusting you again in a hurry.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 02:07:52 PM
Without doubt Bamber has and is committing innocence fraud

John Collins, on Innocence Fraudhttps://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-roberta-glass-true-crime-r-30951716/episode/the-wrongful-conviction-of-forensic-science-52731384/

He refers to how ‘the drama of these types of cases impairs our ability to look at these cases objectively

with lots of help from his CT

What does Michael Fielder’s witness statement say

By the way Fielder DID make a statement to the police about the episode, the police even asked Fielder if he would give evidence in court should he be needed.

Would be great to get hold of that statement. So anyone who says there is no evidence that bamber tried to sell his dead sisters private pictures, well now we know !!!

Bamber and his pal Brett Collins tried to flog nude pictures of his murdered sister Sheila Caffell around Fleet Street in London for a substantial sum before he was arrested.  His friend Brett Collins approached several newspapers on his behalf but every one declined the offer. The Evening Times printed an article shortly thereafter referring to the offer which they felt was in rather poor taste and certainly newsworthy in itself given the circumstances.


Evening Times Article - Tuesday 28 October 1986

(http://i.imgur.com/HqBg3.jpg)


To read full article click here (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cd1AAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6qYMAAAAIBAJ&dq=brett%20collins%20bamber&pg=5839%2C6644530)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 02:29:38 PM
”Here’s an update on the campaign work in 2018.
Our work with the Lords and MPs continues and we are currently recruiting for our Parliamentary Campaign Group, which will see further political pressure on the CPS to disclose all of the material they hold.

I have been part of a working group that includes representatives of JUSTICE, The Centre for Criminal Appeals, and Inside Justice, on designing a protocol to assist both police representatives and prosecutors in handling requests for post-conviction disclosure. In addition, the Centre for Criminal Appeals are to launch a campaign known as “Show Us The Evidence” which will help ensure that innocent prisoners and campaign groups like ours, doing the work of the CCRC, should have access to the evidence they need to defend those maintaining innocence.


Erwin James, editor of the prisoners newspaper Inside Time and a member of the all party parliamentary group, spoke of his own experience as a prisoner helping a fellow inmate who he was convinced was innocent. James himself discovered evidence that in his view ‘totally undermined’ the prosecution case but would not have been allowed in by the Court of Appeal because the CCRC judged that it would have taken the view it was not fresh evidence. A situation the journalist called ‘absurd’.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/westminster-commission-on-miscarriages-of-justice-looks-at-watchdogs-independence/

An argument for reforming the Court of Appeal By Glyn Maddocks 4 November 2019
Today, it is now widely accepted that the criminal justice system in this country is, to use the words of Mark George QC, facing a ‘perfect storm’. Overzealous governments have produced legislation by the bucketload aimed exclusively at increasing the conviction rate while simultaneously and savagely destroying the court service, the CPS, the police and the legal aid system. This has led to prisons being full to breaking point. As Polly Toynbee recently said in the Guardian: ‘The tottering edifice is only kept going by the super human goodwill of the dwindling members operating within it.’

Over a period of a few years the criminal justice system has been systematically devalued and the once robust and independent structure which valued human rights and the rule of law is rapidly being destroyed. In the last seven years, the Ministry of Justice’s budget has been cut by 38% – the deepest cuts of any government department. This is unsustainable when all involved are required to do more for less. Former director of public prosecutions Lord Macdonald waded in recently by graphically describing the system we are left with as demoralised, denuded and chronically malnourished.

Investigating miscarriages

In 2017, a group of parliamentarians established the All Party Parliamentary Group on Miscarriages of Justice (APPGMJ). During its first two years, it has grown in strength and expertise and has been very busy and held many events. But of most significance, the APPGMJ has established a Westminster Commission on Miscarriages of Justice (WCMJ) with a brief to investigate the ability of the criminal justice system to identify and rectify miscarriages of justice. Following the model of a select committee this commission has as its co-chairs, Baroness Stern, president of the Association of Members of Independent Monitoring Boards, and Lord Garnier QC, a former solicitor general. They have been joined by Dame Anne Owers, former chief inspector of prisons; Michelle Nelson QC, barrister; Dr Philip Joseph, consultant forensic psychiatrist; and Erwin James, editor-in-chief of the prisoners’ newspaper Inside Time. I act as the commission’s special adviser and it has been fortunate to receive generous support from Simpson Thacher and Garden Court Chambers.

So far, the commission has heard evidence from Helen Pitcher, chair of the Criminal Cases Review Commission, and its chief executive, Karen Kneller. It has also heard from Gerard Sinclair and Chris Reddick, representing the Scottish CCRC. They were able to provide valuable insight into the Scottish approach to dealing with alleged miscarriages of justice, which applies a different test when deciding whether to refer a case to the Scottish Court of Appeal. Many regard this test as less subjective than the ‘real possibility’ test which is applied in England and Wales, and which Pitcher and Kneller said they would welcome the commission looking at to consider whether it should be modified. The WCMJ has also heard from specialist QCs, academics, and experienced appeal solicitors, with further evidence sessions currently being organised.

The commission has also received a large number of written submissions from lawyers, academics, investigative reporters, charities, prisoners and their families. Concerns raised include the failure of the CCRC to carry out proper reviews or engage experts, the problems that arise from the ‘real possibility’ test, the lack of funding available for legal representation when applying to the CCRC, and failures elsewhere in the criminal justice process. Those who have direct experience of applying to the CCRC have also been encouraged to share their experiences by completing a questionnaire.

To date perhaps the most powerful evidence received by the commission has come from Dr Dennis Eady, of Cardiff University’s Innocence Project. Eady pointed out that the CCRC’s referral rate had plummeted over the last three years – down from a 20-year average of over 30 to just 13 last year. Eady said that a referral rate of about 1% of the total number of applications represented a ‘snowball’s chance in hell’. He went on to say that he believes that things have got so bad and so serious that there is a greater need now for a royal commission than there was in the 1990s.

Reform the Court of Appeal?

Eady was also understandably concerned that the WCMJ might make a few recommendations for the CCRC to be ‘a bit bolder’ as the Justice Select Committee did in 2015.

‘There is a danger we might mess around on the periphery of things which might make them better for a little while, but I think essentially we’ve got to be more radical in the approach we take’, he said. ‘We’ve lowered the standard of proof consistently, we’ve knocked out due process safeguards, and we’ve become a much more convictionalist kind of society. We’ve had moral panics around sex offences and joint enterprise and that has got lower and lower and lower in terms of convicting people. At the other end, as we have heard, the Court of Appeal’s bar has got higher and higher and higher. The CCRC is stuck between a rock and a hard place.’

Eady suggested it was high time to reform the Court of Appeal and allow the CCRC to have more power and the ability to quash convictions.

Whether this will form part of the recommendations to be made by the Westminster commission remains to be seen. Many feel that, sadly, the topic of miscarriages of justice is not given the priority that it deserves by those in power. There is obviously a great deal to be done and it is fair to say that the commission is determined to complete its task as soon as possible, and provide robust and practical recommendations for reform that will hopefully go some way to restore faith in the system.

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/an-argument-for-reforming-the-court-of-appeal/5102022.article#.XcFSL8Fx8GM.twitter
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 13, 2020, 02:30:49 PM
I don't know what happened, but I'm not happy with the court decision. The jury delivered a verdict based on the evidence but if the evidence was dodgy then the jury's verdict was also dodgy.

Depends what you think was dodgy?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 03:09:16 PM
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
“...one thing I did learn in prison is that there is no such thing as false hope - there is only hope.” Erwin James
@TheErwinJames

#JeremyBamber
#Innocent
#NoDisclosureNoJustice
8:52 AM · May 13, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1260477941571555330

Would be interested to hear what Erwin James has to say about Bamber’s innocence fraud
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 03:34:45 PM
Latest News 19.12.19
Statement regarding the White House Farm ITV drama.
“We first became aware of a planned ITV drama about Jeremy’s case in December 2017, and took immediate steps to offer our assistance by contacting Kim Varvell at Production Company ‘New Pictures’, Commissioning Editor Kevin Lygo at ITV and writer Chris Mrska. We were willing to provide access to brand new forensic reports, our team of scientists, the case material, fresh evidence, and Jeremy and his legal team. Our offers were ignored, and we believe therefore, that the drama can only be based on factually incorrect and very out of date material.
Our campaign is not only about proving Jeremy’s innocence, but protecting the memory of his much-loved family who will undoubtedly have their characters dissected and denigrated in order to make sensationalised television. This will not benefit anyone, least of all Jeremy in his fight for justice, but will simply be a money pot for ITV, reaping in millions of pounds from a family tragedy that is still unresolved.
We need to make it clear that the Jeremy Bamber Campaign, Jeremy, and his legal team, do not endorse this drama.
Mark Newby, Jeremy’s solicitor, has written to ITV requesting that owing to the sensitivity in the current legal approaches that have been made to the High Court that the drama at the very least be postponed. Mr Newby of Quality Solicitors Jordans wrote:
“We have written to the producers of the Drama Series and invited them to postpone the broadcast of this series whilst matters are resolved in the High Court . We have intimated that we are concerned that such a drama series by its nature will place a fictitious narrative in the public domain which may be counter productive to the administration of justice in due course.”
We sincerely hope that in the interests of fairness and justice that ITV accede to this request.https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/case

Did Bamber, Mark Newby or the CT ever contact the Crimes that shook Britain series producers asking for them to postpone ?

Crimes That Shook Britain is a television series first aired in 2008 on Crime & Investigation UK, focusing on uncovering the truth behind crimes that shocked the nation.[4] Some episodes were also rebroadcast in random episode order from 2014 to 2019, on Channel 5 originally under the title Britain's Worst Crimes.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_That_Shook_Britain


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 05:10:10 PM
Without a timeline of when Bamber was ‘bedding’ who the real picture of how he was treating JM at that time isn’t clear

The fact ‘no women’ has come forward doesn’t suggest Bamber wasn’t violent - there could be various reasons why they’ve chosen to not come forward and he’s a convicted mass murderer and child killer after all


As for his abuse of others - it’s all there if you choose to see it

Who did Bamber meet at ‘The Chequers on a night out with Charles Marsden’ ?

What date was that and was this yet another person he cheated on JM with?

Was this ‘Anne’ from Colchester or someone else?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 05:18:45 PM
Was this ‘Anne’ from Colchester or someone else?

Take it Bamber and the CT have ‘Anne’ and Anji & Virginia Greaves witness statements as these aren’t on their list for disclosure
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 05:31:30 PM
Take it Bamber and the CT have ‘Anne’ and Anji & Virginia Greaves witness statements as these aren’t on their list for disclosure

Here’s the list, via Peter Tatchell here https://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/


”These are the documents, recordings and photos requested:

Original manuscript/handwritten logs by Malcolm Bonnett (civilian telephone operator at police HQ) and PC West showing that Nevill Bamber (father of Jeremy Bamber) called the police saying: ‘daughter gone berserk’ and ‘has got hold of one of my guns’. There are two separate logs: one pertaining to Jeremy Bamber and one pertaining to Nevill Bamber.

Malcolm Bonnett’s original handwritten statements dated 13.09.85, 08.11.85 and 16.12.85 referring to: ‘Mr Bamber and ‘Mr Bamber Junior’.

Original situation report made by PS Bews following the sighting of someone alive in White House Farm that he saw through a bedroom window prompting him to request firearms assistance.

Original statements made on 07.08.85 by PS Bews and PC Myall who saw movement in a bedroom window of White House Farm.

DI Kenneally’s 06.09.85 report following his investigation stating Sheila Caffell (sister of Jeremy Bamber) was responsible for shooting her family and then herself.

Plus DI Kenneally’s statement made post trial for the Dickinson enquiry (1986).

Audio recordings of:

PC West’s calls to HQ operator Malcolm Bonnett
All radio traffic referred to by Malcolm Bonnett
The raid team’s open microphones
PC Milbank’s pocket book recording all his monitoring of the telephone line at White House Farm from 06:09 on 07.08.85.

All original handwritten statements and pocket book entries from the first case investigation of murder/suicide SC/688/85 including:

PC 7975 David Bishop statements dated 14.09.85
DI Cook statements dated 07.08.85.
DS 219 Davidson statements dated 09.08.85
DCI Jones statements dated 07.08.85
PS Mildenhall statements dated 18.09.85
Inspector Montgomery statements dated 20.08.85
Chief Inspector Wright statements dated 09.09.85
PS 36 Bews statements dated 18.09.85
PC 1902 Cracknell statements dated 17.09.85
PC 721 East statements
DC George Henderson statements
PC 1046 Maunder statements
PC 1445 Reed statements
PC 366 Shoulders statements
Original reports by forensic scientists referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to that of Sheila Caffell and of beneficiary Robert Boutflour (uncle of Jeremy Bamber).

Public Interest Immunity file on Julie Mugford (Jeremy Bamber’s girlfriend at the time of the killings) referring to a ‘deal’ with the Crown Prosecution Service in exchange for immunity from prosecution for five criminal offences, three of which were unknown to the jury. Plus disclosure of the Essex police file on the £25,000 News of the World deal, agreed to in November/December 1985 (pre-trial) by Julie Mugford via her solicitors.

All photographs taken of all the rooms in White House Farm including those containing firearms and all telephones in situ.

Sheila Caffell’s medical/psychiatric records referring to her conversations with her psychiatrist where she informs him she was afraid she would kill her children.

Plus Sheila’s diaries during periods where she had psychotic episodes (1983 and 1985).

All forensic scientist’s pre-trial handwritten statements, lab reports and post-trial DCI Dickinson enquiry interviews pertaining to the sound moderator(s).


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 05:32:45 PM
Here’s the list, via Peter Tatchell here https://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/


”These are the documents, recordings and photos requested:

Original manuscript/handwritten logs by Malcolm Bonnett (civilian telephone operator at police HQ) and PC West showing that Nevill Bamber (father of Jeremy Bamber) called the police saying: ‘daughter gone berserk’ and ‘has got hold of one of my guns’. There are two separate logs: one pertaining to Jeremy Bamber and one pertaining to Nevill Bamber.

Malcolm Bonnett’s original handwritten statements dated 13.09.85, 08.11.85 and 16.12.85 referring to: ‘Mr Bamber and ‘Mr Bamber Junior’.

Original situation report made by PS Bews following the sighting of someone alive in White House Farm that he saw through a bedroom window prompting him to request firearms assistance.

Original statements made on 07.08.85 by PS Bews and PC Myall who saw movement in a bedroom window of White House Farm.

DI Kenneally’s 06.09.85 report following his investigation stating Sheila Caffell (sister of Jeremy Bamber) was responsible for shooting her family and then herself.

Plus DI Kenneally’s statement made post trial for the Dickinson enquiry (1986).

Audio recordings of:

PC West’s calls to HQ operator Malcolm Bonnett
All radio traffic referred to by Malcolm Bonnett
The raid team’s open microphones
PC Milbank’s pocket book recording all his monitoring of the telephone line at White House Farm from 06:09 on 07.08.85.

All original handwritten statements and pocket book entries from the first case investigation of murder/suicide SC/688/85 including:

PC 7975 David Bishop statements dated 14.09.85
DI Cook statements dated 07.08.85.
DS 219 Davidson statements dated 09.08.85
DCI Jones statements dated 07.08.85
PS Mildenhall statements dated 18.09.85
Inspector Montgomery statements dated 20.08.85
Chief Inspector Wright statements dated 09.09.85
PS 36 Bews statements dated 18.09.85
PC 1902 Cracknell statements dated 17.09.85
PC 721 East statements
DC George Henderson statements
PC 1046 Maunder statements
PC 1445 Reed statements
PC 366 Shoulders statements
Original reports by forensic scientists referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to that of Sheila Caffell and of beneficiary Robert Boutflour (uncle of Jeremy Bamber).

Public Interest Immunity file on Julie Mugford (Jeremy Bamber’s girlfriend at the time of the killings) referring to a ‘deal’ with the Crown Prosecution Service in exchange for immunity from prosecution for five criminal offences, three of which were unknown to the jury. Plus disclosure of the Essex police file on the £25,000 News of the World deal, agreed to in November/December 1985 (pre-trial) by Julie Mugford via her solicitors.

All photographs taken of all the rooms in White House Farm including those containing firearms and all telephones in situ.

Sheila Caffell’s medical/psychiatric records referring to her conversations with her psychiatrist where she informs him she was afraid she would kill her children.

Plus Sheila’s diaries during periods where she had psychotic episodes (1983 and 1985).

All forensic scientist’s pre-trial handwritten statements, lab reports and post-trial DCI Dickinson enquiry interviews pertaining to the sound moderator(s).


So why are Bamber, his solicitor advocate Mark Newby and CT erroneously claiming JM was Bamber’s girlfriend when it’s known at least 2 days after the funerals Bamber was in relationship with Anji Greaves? And what about the other relationships he had from the time he met JM?

It was reported publicly (1986) that during committal proceedings in October 1985, counsel had stated Bamber had exerted a ‘powerful influence’ over his former girlfriend.

Evening Times Article - Tuesday 28 October 1986

(http://i.imgur.com/HqBg3.jpg)


To read full article click here (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cd1AAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6qYMAAAAIBAJ&dq=brett%20collins%20bamber&pg=5839%2C6644530)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 05:50:27 PM
Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why.  I knew the basic facts of course, I had followed it in the media from day one.  You could say I had grown up with the case.   Over the last four years I have done as much in depth research as I can and I now spout with confidence (and I do often!) why I know Jeremy did not and could not have killed his family. I have spent probably 100’s of hours reading all the information that is available to me and I know the following to be true or point to Jeremy’s innocence, in no particular order and certainly not exhaustive:

•   No forensics link Jeremy to the murders.

•   There was more than one sound moderator, exhibit labels were manipulated and four moderators were passed off to the jury as one and recent forensics have revealed that the silencer wasn’t even used in the murders.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru


Didn’t Mike Tesko introduce ‘four moderators’ ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 05:56:58 PM
Didn’t Mike Tesko introduce ‘four moderators’ ?

2010
Bambers letter to Mike Tesko re 2 sound moderators https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=210.0

There’s mention of Aunt Agatha and Facebook too - that was around the time her and I communicated

Aunt Agatha recently stated

Please, do not spread misinformation Nicholas.

He was told, and supposedly proven at court, that the silencer was used.   He had no evidence, proof or paperwork at that time to suggest otherwise.


I'd have to look through my paperwork to find this out and that something I'm not prepared to do.
However, it was years later.... Mike Tesco would be a more valuable source than I regarding that.

Bamber’s 2010 letter to Mike Tesco says that AA (The letter refers to her Christian name which I won’t post here) wanted him to put information on her Facebook page - the one she says she ‘closed’ (below)

Bamber’s 4th July 2010 letter to Mike states,

 ‘********** wanted you to put some stuff on her Facebook site. I hope that you don’t go too overboard - smiley face - and if you stick to the 38 page statement of claim we’ll be quids in. As we put up other issues we can deal with them.
I was thinking about the action report instructing DS Davidson to fingerprint the sound moderator dated 13th Sept 1985. But did they ever do so.


This is around the same time Bamber discarded Aunt Agatha

I had to go to the police and reported it. Arrests where not made at the time.  I decided to remove myself completely and closed any social media links I had.  I was not prepared to battle this out amongst obsessive Bamberettes.

Aunt Agatha claims above to have ‘closed any social media links I had’ but this is misleading as she communicated with me via a Facebook account using a pseudonym - think the pseudonym was Parker something or something Parker?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why.  I knew the basic facts of course, I had followed it in the media from day one.  You could say I had grown up with the case.   Over the last four years I have done as much in depth research as I can and I now spout with confidence (and I do often!) why I know Jeremy did not and could not have killed his family. I have spent probably 100’s of hours reading all the information that is available to me and I know the following to be true or point to Jeremy’s innocence, in no particular order and certainly not exhaustive:

•   No forensics link Jeremy to the murders.

•   There was more than one sound moderator, exhibit labels were manipulated and four moderators were passed off to the jury as one and recent forensics have revealed that the silencer wasn’t even used in the murders.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru


Didn’t Mike Tesko introduce ‘four moderators’ ?

What is Trudi Benjamin playing at?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 06:32:37 PM
Trudi Benjamin

•   There was more than one sound moderator, exhibit labels were manipulated and four moderators were passed off to the jury as one and recent forensics have revealed that the silencer wasn’t even used in the murders.[/i]
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

Here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7240.0.html

David posted the following nonsense claim

"The circumstances and evidence to undermine the sound moderator seem overwhelming."

Did he followup with anything accurate or intelligent?  Of course not.

He starts out saying "Boutflour is alleged to find the sound moderator on the 10th of August. This is handed into the lab on the 13th by DI Cook. Multiple copies of the submissions have been made and altered."
 
He implies that there is something wrong with multiple copies of the submission being drafted when in fact it was required to be submitted in triplicate so they had to hand write 3 copies of the Holab form.  He claims it was altered though all that happened is on one of the 3 forms Cook made a clerical error. Cook labeled the moderator lab item 22 and wrote that on the first 2 copies.  He screwed up and wrote lab item 23 on the third form.  To COLP he admitted he screwed up the third copy and that there was only 1 moderator.  If there were two moderators being submitted all three forms would contain both lab item 22 and lab item 23 not either or.  All 3 copies were supposed to be identical he simply screwed up on one.   

So far David's claims don't undermine a damn thing except in his imagination.

He next states that "It is then alleged in a document typed in November 1985 that on that day human blood was discovered inside the moderator.  If so why did this initial discovery of human blood on the 13th not trigger an arrest for Jeremy? If the accounts written in retrospect are correct then they had the smoking gun evidence within a matter of days?"

First of all police weren't told about the findings until the 14th.  Second all police were told was that there was red paint on the knurled portion and human blood on the outside and inside the moderator.  The lab didn't know whose blood it was at that point.  It was not until further testing was done that they determined it was Sheila's blood, that it got there by drawback and that experts who did such work explained the significance of such results to police.  That happened in September.  When was Jeremy arrested- in September after such evidence was available.

David suggests the only records are from November completely ignoring the contemporaneous lab examination records and instead lies trying to pretend that the only paperwork that exists is from November. He is as pathetic as mike. There not only is contemporaneous lab examination records but COLP stated there was documentary proof the police were notified of the results on August 14.  This is corroborated by the police going to WHF on August 14 to take paint samples.
 
Next he writes:

"DI Cook in the COLP  investigations then explains the lack of paperwork
As I intended carrying out the examination myself using their facilities then the items would never I leave my possession and therefore proof of continuity using those forms Was not required, as they were only intended for submission to the Huntingdon Laboratory. The continuity of these exhibits was solely my responsibility."

This is an honest and accurate explanation of why continuity forms when he brought the moderator to be fingerprinted were not required.  There were plenty of other documents simply no continuity sheets showing the moderator taken to Sandridge.  On page 26 (Bates Stamp 190) of his COLP interview Cook notes he entered the moderator on the evidence room reception sheets on August 13.  Thus there were in fact records of it being in police custody in the evidence room August 13 after it returning for the lab.  He didn't fill out continuity sheets to show he took it to Sandridge because he did all the work and had it in his possession.  Continuity sheets are for when it leaves his possession.  He did in fact fill out continuity sheets to convey it to the lab and also filled out HOLAB forms to the lab, the lab acknowledged receipt sending one of those Holab forms singed received back to HQ and alos they did fill out the examination record.  Page 28 (Bates Stamp 192) specifically discusses the continuity sheets that exist showing it conveyed to the lab on August 13.

That no continuity sheets were filled out to take it to Sandridge but only documents showing it going to the lab is is not proof of anything wrong except in David's imagination.  The same page mentions there was also a continuity sheet and Holab forms showing it was conveyed to the lab on August 30 by courier Wolton.

But next comes the real whopper:

"On the 29th of August 1985 DI Cook unscrews the silencer and takes out the baffle plates, he takes the photograph below."

This is a big fat lie.  Cook didn't unscrew anything the photo was taken after the lab examined it. Mike hand wrote the date on the photocopy himself made up that it was taken apart by Cook and that cook photographed it after taking it apart himself.  David is either as gullible as they come or knows this is complete nonsense but doesn't care. 

Since mike made up the claims that renders this babble total nonsense:

"The significance of this is that DI Cook never reports finding any blood. The Crown claims that a considerable amount of blood and blood flakes is sprayed from baffle plates 1 to 6. If we are to believe the silencers authenticity we now must believe DI Cook just happened to miss seeing all this blood." 

Cook didn't take it apart and never claimed he took it apart so why would Cook write that he saw blood after he took it apart?  David suggests Cook stated he took it apart but failed to mention finding any blood though he never claimed such and the assertion he took it apart is complete fiction.

Next this:

"In the transcripts of the recorded COLP interview DS Davidson who was involved in handling the evidence forms claims he has never seen a silencer and was never aware any relatives found silencer"

Davidson ACTUALLY said he wasn't aware that they found the silencer until much later.  He didn't say that he was hearing from COLP for the first time that the family found the moderator. 

David then says Davidson was unaware that Cook handled the moderator:

"Also in transcripts of the recorded COLP interview with DS Davidson he claims to have no idea of DI Cook having a sound moderator"

He uses this to try to pretend that Davidson was caught in a lie:

"only to say at a much later stage of the interview that DI Cook did tell him about the sound moderator. Its seem DS Davidson has either been caught out or has used information told to him in the earlier stages of the interview to cover his mistakes."

The truth is that Davidson wasn't involved with handling the moderator so didn't have much knowledge about it.  All he knew is that Cook was taking care of the moderator and learned well later the family had found it.  Given his lack of involvement it is understandable why 6 years later he would not remember much about it. He never knew much to begin with and 6 years has passed.  Al Davidson told COLP is that he didn't find out about the moderator until much later and didn't find out the family had found it until much later. He never suggested he never heard of a moderator till COLP told him.

Next he posts this: "Then in September a second sound moderator is found - according to this police log"

The log doesn't say a second moderator was found. Boutflour told them about the moderator he found in August that he had the Eatons turn in. They picked up the scope and bullets that day but not the shotgun shells so he complained about them not taking everything.  He recounted how he had found everything including the moderator.  That call resulted in them appreciating for the first time who found the moderator and the scope etc.  As a result they subsequently reclassified the items to the DB prefix.

Next he posts this: "PC Whiddon's statement further corroborates a second sound moderator is found. "

Whiddon didn't say anything about 2 moderators he said there was a single moderator. He discussed how he renumbered various items in statements to make the references match up to the actual exhibits.

The moderator SBJ/1 was reclassified DB/1 and later DRB/1
AE/1 the scope was reclassified DB/2 and later DRB/2
AE/2 the bullets and abu ammo carrier was reclassified DB/3 and later DRB/3
 
David is so inept he is claiming AE/1 and AE/2 are moderators.  The exact quote he posts form Whiddon features Whiddon saying that Ann Eaton referred to the scope in her statement as AE/1 but it's actual designation was DRB/1 so he changed her statement to reflect that. 

Next David writes: "Superintendent Mckay in the COLP interview with DS Davidson. Also mentions a second silencer"  Mckay asks Davidson if he was aware of a second moderator and Davidson said no.  Mckay didn't say there was a second moderator he asked a question simply.  He asked because at one point Davidson wrote on a form item 23 but other times it said item 22.  COLP found the genesis of this.  The form Cook screwed up is the one Davidson copied off of when he filled out a form in September. So he copied Cook's error referring to it as item 23.  COLP found no evidence at all of more than one moderator collected in 1985.

So all of David's crap fell apart totally under scrutiny.

Next david jumps to the crap that the CCRC rejected because it has no scientific basis in fact:

"Dr Fowler a US medical expert who has investigated three thousand gunshot homicides examines the evidence and concludes the silencer was not attached when Shelia's contact wounds to the neck were inflicted. (also confirmed by two peer reviewers) to this day Dr Fowler's conclusions remain unchallenged"

The claim that Fowler's claims remain unchallenged is complete nonsense.  Fowler claimed that HE THINKS Vanezis observed a muzzle imprint around the nonfatal wound but failed to appreciate that is what it was.  Vanezis disagrees so right there is a challenge to Fowler's claims.  Experts found by the CCRC also challenged Fowler's claims.  The photos do not show any muzzle imprints.  Vanezis said he observed a bullet abrasion and dirt ring. Fowler said he thinks it was not a bullet abrasion but rather a muzzle imprint.  He has no way to establish his opinion is accurate and Vanezis was wrong.  So the courts correctly view his claims as unsubstantiated as does any rational person which safely leave David out.

Next david turns to the Sutherst BS:

"The CCRC hired Mr Laws who claimed Peter Sutherst evidence on the scratch marks are inconclusive enabling them to continue the assertion that the silencer was attached.  Onto the subject of the scratch marks, Not only does Peter Sutherst conclude that there are no scratches present on the original crime scene.  DS Davidson seems to remember there being red paint on barrel end of the weapon with no silencer  :o  He is then interupted and the subject is quickly changed."

Sutherst's claims were rejected because even by his own admission his tests were not scientifically valid.  He admitted he lacked the ability to blow up photos sufficiently unless he had the negatives.  Blowing up a copy of a photo and then further blowing up that copy of a copy and so on is not scientifically valid.

As for Davidson, he said he was eavesdropping when Cook was talking to Elliott about red paint on a weapon.  Since at the time he didn't know there was a moderator he assumed they were talking about paint directly on a rifle barrel.  He knew the murder weapon had no paint on it because he saw the rifle- he was the one who logged it in at WHF so he assumed it was some other rifle found downstairs.  David ignores all this and pretends he said it was on the murder weapon directly.

Ever single claim by David has fallen apart under scrutiny they all are BS claims made by mike with were refuted a dozen times on blue by me alone who know how many times total by everyone who has posted on blue.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2020, 06:51:56 PM
Bamber’s 2010 letter to Mike Tesco says that AA (The letter refers to her Christian name which I won’t post here) wanted him to put information on her Facebook page - the one she says she ‘closed’ (below)

Bamber’s 4th July 2010 letter to Mike states,

 ‘********** wanted you to put some stuff on her Facebook site. I hope that you don’t go too overboard - smiley face - and if you stick to the 38 page statement of claim we’ll be quids in. As we put up other issues we can deal with them.
I was thinking about the action report instructing DS Davidson to fingerprint the sound moderator dated 13th Sept 1985. But did they ever do so.


This is around the same time Bamber discarded Aunt Agatha

Aunt Agatha claims above to have ‘closed any social media links I had’ but this is misleading as she communicated with me via a Facebook account using a pseudonym - think the pseudonym was Parker something or something Parker?
Re Aunt Agatha
You stated on the blue forum here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358356.html#msg358356

I've said this so many times on here.....I remember the early days - before the revelations.
I'm certain he had absolutely no idea of what exactly happened that night.

The lies we had been fed by the police did not make sense.....nothing fitted into place.
Together we went over and over the same things, hoping that one of us could  (as there was only two of us then), might pick up on something we'd overlooked previously.

I was there when the new revelations came about also - he would phone me upon reading the new evidence .... We would then try to piece that new information together and then he would find further information and again we would try to form anther picture of what happened.

That picture changed many times as more information was being revealed.

During Bamber’s 18 years with Aunt Agatha it appears his innocence fraud lay dormant

In the beginning we had absolutely no idea what happened that evening... We were given the pieces of the jigsaw and we always questioned it but it was stated at court that the silencer was used.  FACT!

Over the years information and paperwork that Jeremy had not seen before the trial came to light... Based on this new information he would try again to get the pieces of the jigsaw to fit together.

Bamber’s innocence fraud began to gain traction from around 2010

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
Bamber’s 2010 letter to Mike Tesco says that AA (The letter refers to her Christian name which I won’t post here) wanted him to put information on her Facebook page - the one she says she ‘closed’ (below)

Bamber’s 4th July 2010 letter to Mike states,

 ‘********** wanted you to put some stuff on her Facebook site. I hope that you don’t go too overboard - smiley face - and if you stick to the 38 page statement of claim we’ll be quids in. As we put up other issues we can deal with them.
I was thinking about the action report instructing DS Davidson to fingerprint the sound moderator dated 13th Sept 1985. But did they ever do so.


This is around the same time Bamber discarded Aunt Agatha

From the same letter - page 3 (https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=210.0)

Bamber claims,

It’s the documents that don’t exist that prove this case just as much those docs that do exist - I’ve got a long letter explaining all this that I will circulate this week”
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 14, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
From the same letter - page 3 (https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=210.0)

Bamber claims,

It’s the documents that don’t exist that prove this case just as much those docs that do exist - I’ve got a long letter explaining all this that I will circulate this week”

If ever there was a  definition of  'bollox' that's it!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2020, 01:57:40 PM
Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why.  I knew the basic facts of course, I had followed it in the media from day one.  You could say I had grown up with the case.   Over the last four years I have done as much in depth research as I can and I now spout with confidence (and I do often!) why I know Jeremy did not and could not have killed his family. I have spent probably 100’s of hours reading all the information that is available to me and I know the following to be true or point to Jeremy’s innocence, in no particular order and certainly not exhaustive:

•   No forensics link Jeremy to the murders.

•   There was more than one sound moderator, exhibit labels were manipulated and four moderators were passed off to the jury as one and recent forensics have revealed that the silencer wasn’t even used in the murders.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru


Didn’t Mike Tesko introduce ‘four moderators’ ?[/i]

Think Mike Tesko published an email he’d sent to Essex police making false claims about four moderators
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2020, 01:59:52 PM
Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why.  I knew the basic facts of course, I had followed it in the media from day one.  You could say I had grown up with the case.   Over the last four years I have done as much in depth research as I can and I now spout with confidence (and I do often!) why I know Jeremy did not and could not have killed his family. I have spent probably 100’s of hours reading all the information that is available to me and I know the following to be true or point to Jeremy’s innocence, in no particular order and certainly not exhaustive:

 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2020, 02:20:59 PM
Trudi Benjamin

Julie Mugford was a bitter jealous jilted woman, who would have been charged with drug offences, cheque book fraud and burglary.  Instead she got the ultimate revenge on Jeremy and gained £25K from the NOTW and immunity from prosecution.  Not hard to see why she lied.

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

JM wasn’t ‘a bitter jealous jilted women’ as Trudi Benjamin has publicly claimed. She was another of Bamber’s victims whom he gaslighted at every given opportunity. Bamber’s gaslighting of JM increased after he’d murdered his family and attempted to blame his innocent sister.

Does Trudi Benjamin know how much Anji Greaves was paid for her story in the Sun newspaper?

It was reported publicly (1986) that during committal proceedings in October 1985, counsel had stated Bamber had exerted a ‘powerful influence’ over his former girlfriend.

Evening Times Article - Tuesday 28 October 1986

(http://i.imgur.com/HqBg3.jpg)


To read full article click here (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cd1AAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6qYMAAAAIBAJ&dq=brett%20collins%20bamber&pg=5839%2C6644530)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2020, 02:40:06 PM
Trudi Benjamin is a bare faced liar when she makes claim,

“I hate injustice.  I hate it with a passion”


She states here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

It still doesn’t explain why I campaign for Jeremy, so I believe he is innocent but I’m often asked why dedicate so much of my time and energy for someone I have no connection to and have never met.  Well that is simple I hate injustice.  I hate it with a passion.


She blocked me on Twitter not long after I joined. Why would she do that?

Seems Trudi Benjamin doesn’t understand the meaning of the word injustice

If she genuinely hated injustice as she claims she would have recognised long ago the injustice suffered by JM at the hands of Bamber


The Scientific Signs You Are In a Relationship with a Psychopath - Dec 2018

“Despite this type of personality disorder being well established and researched, there is some controversy around exactly how it should be diagnosed. However, researchers do agree that psychopathy involves persistent [ censored word]ocial behaviour, impaired empathy and remorse, boldness, emotional resiliency, meanness, impulsivity and extremely egotistical traits.

Psychopaths also have certain positive traits, however, such as paying attention to detail, being good at reading people and engaging in conversation with ease. Their ability to be precise and creative means psychopaths can be successful professionals.

Romantic problems
The first trait that might become apparent when dating a psychopath is pathological lying. Psychopaths are likely to repeatedly attempt to deceive their partners and will lie about anything under any circumstances in order to conceal their behaviour and achieve their goals – whatever they may be.

Unfortunately, it can be difficult to catch a psychopath lying as they often strategically plan deceitful stories. They often also tend to have a superficial charm that may have got their partner addicted in the first place – this could make their other half doubt their suspicions.

Their perception of self worth is typically extremely high. Even if you are a successful, confident professional, you are likely to feel worthless in comparison. And if you don’t, a psychopath partner may set out to crush your self esteem in order to have more control over you. Research shows that psychopaths often use a technique called gas lighting in order to achieve this – gradually eroding a “victim’s” confidence and sense of reality by confusing, misdirecting, deceiving and persuading them – leading to extreme self doubt.

The reason psychopaths are good at manipulating is that they typically study people’s behaviour and skilfully use it to control them. If you are in a relationship with a psychopath and manage to resist their manipulation, they will often throw a toddler’s tantrum full of frustration, anger, nagging or repetitive conversations – and of course the pity puppy eyes as a final attempt – to make you feel sorry for them and give in to their wishes.

The lack of guilt or remorse is particularly hard to deal with. But don’t expect it to change – research suggests the brains of psychopaths are wired in this way. A recent brain scanning study of psychopaths in prison showed that the higher levels of psychopathy people had, the more likely they were to cheat – and not feel bad about it. This was associated with reduced activity of the anterior cingulate cortex, which is thought to play a role in morality, impulse control and emotion among other things. Other studies have discovered that psychopaths have structural and functional differences in several brain areas, including the prefrontal cortex, which plays a crucial role in personality development and planning.

It is clearly also exhausting to be in a relationship with someone who struggles to feel empathy. However, some studies have indicated that psychopaths may actually have the ability to feel empathy – both on an intellectual and emotional level – but can choose to disregard it, as if they have an emotional off switch. Similarly, it seems psychopaths are often aware of the wrongfulness in their negative behaviour, but act in that way in any case due to their lack of self control.

Romantic partners of psychopaths will therefore soon realise it is hard work to keep up with their partners’ continuous need for stimulation and unrealistic long-term goals. Their lack of self control can also get partners in trouble. For example, a psychopath may be rude to their partner’s colleagues or embarrass them at a party.

Psychopaths also tend to show traits of sociopathy and narcissism, and both traits have been been correlated with infidelity. A recent study that examined how psychopathic traits play out in romantic relationships also found that manipulation to gain sex may be a common approach.

While many of these traits are off-putting, men and women seem to struggle with different things when living with a psychopathic partner. Women are more likely to resent their partner’s behaviour and gradually end the relationship, while men are more likely to experience an increased fear of rejection due to their partner’s impulsive behaviour.

Dealing with rejection
People who find the strength to get unhooked from a romantic relationship with a psychopath may find that their other half actually feels sorry – but that’s most likely to be because they are no longer able to own, control and use them anymore.

And if you dump a psychopath and later try to get them back you are unlikely to be successful. Their lack of empathy means that they will take no responsibility for what went wrong in the relationship and offer to change going forward. Instead, they will most likely blame the outcome on you or anyone else but themselves. This attitude comes from their belief that, if you are feeling hurt, then it is your responsibility and your problem – in other words, you let this happen to you.

However, if their next romantic partner is not as challenging, interesting and fruitful as they hoped for, they might come right back to you full of deceitful apologies and new-found meaning in your relationship – along with promises of love. That is because psychopaths tend to live a parasitic lifestyle, feeding off others and taking more than they give. That means they may want to have your friends, resources and even your financial status back as their own.


https://neurosciencenews.com/psychopath-npd-abuse-relationship-120187/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2020, 03:43:19 PM
Trudi Benjamin is a bare faced liar when she makes claim,

“I hate injustice.  I hate it with a passion”


She states here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

It still doesn’t explain why I campaign for Jeremy, so I believe he is innocent but I’m often asked why dedicate so much of my time and energy for someone I have no connection to and have never met.  Well that is simple I hate injustice.  I hate it with a passion.


She blocked me on Twitter not long after I joined. Why would she do that?

Seems Trudi Benjamin doesn’t understand the meaning of the word injustice

If she genuinely hated injustice as she claims she would have recognised long ago the injustice suffered by JM at the hands of Bamber


Re: Tonight or never!

CAL'S reference to Julie Mugford's w/s, 18 November 1985:

‘You sound pissed off,’ she said. Jeremy told her, ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’

Julie Mugford's reply to Rivlin at trial:

Rivlin turned to the telephone call from Jeremy at 10pm on 6 August, comparing her later description with her first witness statement. Julie responded defiantly: ‘I am not a liar. He said, “It’s tonight or never”, as simple as that. He told me, and I didn’t say it to the police initially because I was scared.’ Then she burst out: ‘Is that okay? Is it excusable for somebody to be scared?’ She began to cry violently and covered her face, mumbling, ‘I’m sorry, my lord.’

Lee, Carol Ann. The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. Pan Macmillan
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2020, 11:38:16 PM
Who is Susannah ?

She claims here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/susannah in her last paragraph

A number of his friends have known him since before he went to prison showing that he is able to maintain lasting relationships with people on the outside.

Who’s she referring to?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 04:46:00 PM
Because they were either deluded or have become deluded

Trudi Benjamin appears to have been deluded to begin with

She publicly claimed here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru

When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why (sic)

Trudi Benjamin has been feeding into her delusions for 10 years
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 04:49:54 PM
JM stated,

“In the cafe we started talking and I asked him what was going on in respect of our relationship. He said it had already been sold out.
I told him he was selfish and that I couldn’t let him get away with hurting people anymore. He said, ‘you mean I either confess; going to the police or I carry on the relationship with you’
He thought I was giving him an alternative.
We discussed our relationship further and basically he could have freedom and do what he wanted to do 


Suspect JM didn’t know at the time what Bamber’s comment ‘it had been sold out’ actually meant until it dawned on her he’d murdered his family

Source page 28 of JM’s handwritten witness statement
Julie Mugford witness statement page 28 (http://i.imgur.com/BobIW.jpg)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 05:30:47 PM
Who’s the author of this ⬇️  https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?

Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm

Everyone copes with trauma in different ways. Jeremy had been kept away from the house when the Fire Arms Team were called in. He had been asked to stay in a police car on Pages Lane with officers who testified that he was distressed. He kept looking as though he was going to break down and they distracted him with talk of other things. PC Lay stated in his 1st of October statement:

“There were two or 3 occasions during the conversation that Jeremy appeared to be getting upset. On one of these occasions he said, “Oh God, I hope she hasn’t done anything stupid.” I didn’t ask him to elaborate on that remark as the man was getting distressed and so I steered the conversation to another subject.”

Lay goes on to say:

“The Witham Duty Sergeant came over to the car. He went to the nearside and opened the passenger door and said – I’m very sorry there’s no hope for any of them.” Or words to that effect. At that Jeremy burst into tears and the Sergeant tried to console him.”

Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask, which  made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge. The only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread. He ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers.

Many of Jeremy’s responses have been used against him, for example, the talk of buying a Porsche was used as evidence to demonstrate that he was already planning to spend his inheritance on a new sports car, but the truth was that Jeremy was referring to a buying a cheap replica Porsche kit. The case is littered with myths and circumstantial evidence. The facts are that there was no evidence against Jeremy Bamber; nothing connected him to the scene. In court the moderator was the only thing suggesting that Sheila had not shot herself. She could not have fired one shot leaving her blood in the moderator and then taken the moderator downstairs and put it in the gun cupboard and returning upstairs again where she was found. Even though this still did not connect Jeremy to the killings, the judge stated at court that because Jeremy said his father had made the call to him – it meant the killer had to be either Jeremy or Sheila and not a third party. It does beg the question as to why there has been so much emphasis placed on the precarious evidence of Mugford and her hit man story which was demonstrably disproved. So, with absolutely no evidence – why is he in prison?

Jeremy Bamber let Julie Mugford and his friends and relatives take over the running of almost every part of the aftermath of the tragedy.[1] Unable to cope with entering White House Farm without experiencing trauma and severe anxiety Jeremy continued to smoke cannabis heavily, Wasn’t Bamber already a heavy cannabis user whilst drinking alcohol and taking diazepam as prescribed by his doctor. [2]

The question must have turned over in his mind a million times: If I hadn’t left the gun out on the settle would this still have happened?Had he forgotten to take the magazine out or not? No, he was sure he had taken the magazine out. Had Sheila noticed that he had left the gun like this? He had blamed himself for his own mistakes, but then the farm was full of guns. A collection of seven weapons including rifles and shotguns were there, and he knew that Sheila could have picked up any one of those at any time.

The family solicitor was later interviewed by police and confirmed that he had advised Jeremy to find out the order of deaths[3] something which was later to be used against him by this relatives and the police. Later when the City of London Police investigated, Mr Wilson told them that Jeremy was very emotional on his visits to him and that he had advised Jeremy that he should be appointed sole director of the businesses.[4] A few days after the tragedy Jeremy had to face going into the farm, Ann Eaton took Jeremy around the house after she had been in to clean it and remove valuable items she wanted for herself and her family. She stated that he did not want to go into each room and she described Jeremy as “frightened, hesitant and petrified,” a normal reaction for someone having to face where the bodies of their family had been found. [5]

The family accountant had confirmed that Nevill’s bank account was overdrawn by almost £100,000; [6] all of the estate was tied up in assets. Nevill had borrowed this money to convert his estate in Guildford into five houses. Jeremy had the responsibility of running the farm at harvest time, coping with the funerals of his family, the shock, his grief and the prospect of having little money for funerals as well as paying staff wages. He was an inexperienced farmer at just 24 years old, and Basil Cock had advised that Jeremy appoint Peter Eaton as farm manager to help. Jeremy was also advised that death duties would be high and he would have to find ways of cutting down costs. At the time inheritance duties were 40% of all monies inherited over £200,000. The financial difficulty Jeremy faced was because he was to inherit both his parent’s estates at once. The accountant told him that he would owe around £80,000 in tax.

Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a frequently after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.”Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief. [7]

Some weeks later after the tragedy Jeremy attended the farm. On the 23rd August he asked both Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttell to clear out much of the clutter that filled up the rooms of White House Farm. This included a large collection of magazines in the kitchen under which Jean Bouttell found the spare telephone. She asked Jeremy what she should do with it he just remarked it was a spare.[8] There was much discussion over this telephone which was later a court exhibit.

Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship. Her endless demanding behaviour must have become tiresome to him. He had offered to buy Julie a wine bar When did he offer her this ? in London and had given her money to help her as a student teacher. Jeremy wanted to be with another woman called Virginia whom he had known for some time. He turned to Virginia for comfort away from Julie’s violent tantrums and demands. Did Bamber tell the author of this piece this ?[9] Julie was becoming more and more difficult and resented Brett Collins being around and suspected that they were lovers.

Brett had said he was experienced in the sale of antiques and together with Jeremy they took some valuables to Sotheby’s for auction to raise funds to help with the impending death duties much to the horror of the relatives. During the period before he was charged with the murders Jeremy Bamber had twice headed overseas rejecting what had happened and feeling distressed at the constant press intrusion into his life.

After DCI Jones was removed as head of the investigation he worked under Supt Ainsley. DCI Jones had to arrest Jeremy Bamber for the first time at Moorshead Mansions.  Almost immediately after his arrest and still at the flat Jeremy had blurted out that he had possession of Marijuana and handed some over to Jones.  At interview he easily confessed to burgling the caravan park to prove a point by using a key kept inside the letter box.  He also confessed to cultivating marijuana in his back garden which he sold to friends.  For someone who owns up to crime so easily, it seems to me that if Jeremy Bamber had committed the killings he would not be able to stop himself from confessing.  Nevertheless, in 29 years there has never been any admission.

After his first arrest on the 8th of September, he was questioned for four days sometimes until 11pm at night. The interviews were not audio recorded but hand written each day. The first two days of questioning were done without Jeremy having a solicitor present. Police constantly pressed him on the positioning of the gun accusing him of telling some police officers that the rifle was on the table, but he was adamant the gun was on the settle.  DS Stan Jones asked him if he had or hadn’t fired the gun.  He was insistent that he had not fired the rifle.  They went over and over the telephone call from his father.  The records of these interviews span for hundreds of pages.  DS Jones told Jeremy that Julie had said that he had called her before calling the police which contradicted what both he and Julie had initially told police. The time of the call needed to be ‘fixed’ at a much earlier time for the prosecution to state that he called Julie first. This corresponds to PC West’s log having been recorded much earlier but he altered his testimony saying that he filled the log out wrong by ten minutes.

After days of questioning Jeremy gave in with confusion and said that maybe he did call Julie first.  This single discrepancy was used against Jeremy although it actually has no real bearing on the facts; whether he called Julie first or the police second the events still happened just as he had said.  Since the interview Jeremy has maintained that he called the police before he called Julie.  There are no other discrepancies in Jeremy’s accounts throughout his 29 years. This single issue was used to state that Jeremy had lied. Jeremy Bamber’s account has stood up to scrutiny over 29 years and is very robust by comparison with the testimony of Mugford, who had lied about their engagement, the end of their relationship, Jeremy’s relationship with Collins, MacDonald being the hit man, her involvement in drugs and crime independently of Jeremy and her pre-trial deal with the NOTW for 25k.

Through all of the witness accounts, many people have altered their accounts and statements contradicted each other. There is only one account which remains the same to this day and it is the account of Jeremy Bamber.  This is because it is the truth and the truth does not alter. Other witnesses (both Police Officers and relatives) have exaggerated and embellished their original accounts in the media and to different police enquiries.  Jeremy has coped with the strain of the continual questioning and by comparison with other miscarriages of justice his version of accounts has not altered; he has never confessed nor altered his account under duress.

After his first arrest and release without charge Jeremy was approached by the newspapers for his story.  Naively  @)(++(* he went to meet with one after his solicitor advised him against it.  Jeremy was tired of being vilified by the newspapers after his arrest and wanted to tell his story.  Jeremy said that Brett Collins also advised that he should go to meet with the journalist. The Sun journalist wasn’t interested in Jeremy’s account, and continually asked questions about Sheila Caffell and requested any modelling pictures which might have been pornographic.  Jeremy had told him that there were none and that there might have been some topless ones but Colin Caffell would have those.  The journalist ran the story reporting that the newspaper had been offered these pictures and they also went to the police. The newspaper never obtained pictures of Sheila, because they didn’t exist, further proof that Jeremy Bamber had not intended to sell any pictures to the newspaper.

Jeremy’s efforts to tell his story had gone disastrously wrong. Did his ‘efforts’ start with Kieron Saunders at the Sun This coupled with the burglary at the caravan park made the outlook very bleak.  Stories escalated about Jeremy’s relationship with Brett Collins and his trips abroad.  Acquaintances turned their backs on him and his often eccentric, foolish behaviour and socializing with homosexuals was amplified by local gossip.  His enjoyment of cannabis, later down classified to a class C drug and frequently used by the middle classes was also a major point of “criminality” used by the prosecution.  He was presented as having spent a lot of money on holidays but the reality was on his trip to Amsterdam he, Brett and Julie had shared the same room to economise.

After his arrest the trip to the South of France was glamorized but the fact was that Jeremy and Brett stayed in a caravan to keep the costs low.  Anything to escape the now intrusive and destructive glare of the media, Jeremy was an innocent man subjected to similar treatment as other people who are vilified in the press and subsequently released without charge.

Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow.  His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves NOT Virginia Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge.[12]

Now Jeremy was in virtual exile in France with his friend Brett trying to support him in the only way he knew how, by leading him to drinking dens. After a short period under police surveillance the officers abandoned their suspect realizing that Jeremy was not going to do anything helpful to the prosecution’s case.[13] Jeremy found the pain was dampened by drinking until the small hours of the night and eventually both he and Brett caught food poisoning on their return journey to the UK by ferry. Jeremy was arrested and charged with murder at the port of Dover. On his arrival in a police vehichle on his last day of freedom, there were several women  waving to him and calling out his name. He smiled back as the cameras snapped him in a dazed, exhausted blur of a mask which veiled the pain he would carry for at least another 29 years.  This was a photograph often used over the years by the press to demonstrate that he was a shallow and arrogant young man.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 15, 2020, 05:59:35 PM
Who’s the author of this https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?

Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm

Everyone copes with trauma in different ways. Jeremy had been kept away from the house when the Fire Arms Team were called in. He had been asked to stay in a police car on Pages Lane with officers who testified that he was distressed. He kept looking as though he was going to break down and they distracted him with talk of other things. PC Lay stated in his 1st of October statement:

“There were two or 3 occasions during the conversation that Jeremy appeared to be getting upset. On one of these occasions he said, “Oh God, I hope she hasn’t done anything stupid.” I didn’t ask him to elaborate on that remark as the man was getting distressed and so I steered the conversation to another subject.”

Lay goes on to say:

“The Witham Duty Sergeant came over to the car. He went to the nearside and opened the passenger door and said – I’m very sorry there’s no hope for any of them.” Or words to that effect. At that Jeremy burst into tears and the Sergeant tried to console him.”

Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask, which  made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge. The only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread. He ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers.

Many of Jeremy’s responses have been used against him, for example, the talk of buying a Porsche was used as evidence to demonstrate that he was already planning to spend his inheritance on a new sports car, but the truth was that Jeremy was referring to a buying a cheap replica Porsche kit. The case is littered with myths and circumstantial evidence. The facts are that there was no evidence against Jeremy Bamber; nothing connected him to the scene. In court the moderator was the only thing suggesting that Sheila had not shot herself. She could not have fired one shot leaving her blood in the moderator and then taken the moderator downstairs and put it in the gun cupboard and returning upstairs again where she was found. Even though this still did not connect Jeremy to the killings, the judge stated at court that because Jeremy said his father had made the call to him – it meant the killer had to be either Jeremy or Sheila and not a third party. It does beg the question as to why there has been so much emphasis placed on the precarious evidence of Mugford and her hit man story which was demonstrably disproved. So, with absolutely no evidence – why is he in prison?

Jeremy Bamber let Julie Mugford and his friends and relatives take over the running of almost every part of the aftermath of the tragedy.[1] Unable to cope with entering White House Farm without experiencing trauma and severe anxiety Jeremy continued to smoke cannabis heavily, whilst drinking alcohol and taking diazepam as prescribed by his doctor. [2]

The question must have turned over in his mind a million times: If I hadn’t left the gun out on the settle would this still have happened?Had he forgotten to take the magazine out or not? No, he was sure he had taken the magazine out. Had Sheila noticed that he had left the gun like this? He had blamed himself for his own mistakes, but then the farm was full of guns. A collection of seven weapons including rifles and shotguns were there, and he knew that Sheila could have picked up any one of those at any time.

The family solicitor was later interviewed by police and confirmed that he had advised Jeremy to find out the order of deaths[3] something which was later to be used against him by this relatives and the police. Later when the City of London Police investigated, Mr Wilson told them that Jeremy was very emotional on his visits to him and that he had advised Jeremy that he should be appointed sole director of the businesses.[4] A few days after the tragedy Jeremy had to face going into the farm, Ann Eaton took Jeremy around the house after she had been in to clean it and remove valuable items she wanted for herself and her family. She stated that he did not want to go into each room and she described Jeremy as “frightened, hesitant and petrified,” a normal reaction for someone having to face where the bodies of their family had been found. [5]

The family accountant had confirmed that Nevill’s bank account was overdrawn by almost £100,000; [6] all of the estate was tied up in assets. Nevill had borrowed this money to convert his estate in Guildford into five houses. Jeremy had the responsibility of running the farm at harvest time, coping with the funerals of his family, the shock, his grief and the prospect of having little money for funerals as well as paying staff wages. He was an inexperienced farmer at just 24 years old, and Basil Cock had advised that Jeremy appoint Peter Eaton as farm manager to help. Jeremy was also advised that death duties would be high and he would have to find ways of cutting down costs. At the time inheritance duties were 40% of all monies inherited over £200,000. The financial difficulty Jeremy faced was because he was to inherit both his parent’s estates at once. The accountant told him that he would owe around £80,000 in tax.

Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a frequently after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.”Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief. [7]

Some weeks later after the tragedy Jeremy attended the farm. On the 23rd August he asked both Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttell to clear out much of the clutter that filled up the rooms of White House Farm. This included a large collection of magazines in the kitchen under which Jean Bouttell found the spare telephone. She asked Jeremy what she should do with it he just remarked it was a spare.[8] There was much discussion over this telephone which was later a court exhibit.

Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship. Her endless demanding behaviour must have become tiresome to him. He had offered to buy Julie a wine bar in London and had given her money to help her as a student teacher. Jeremy wanted to be with another woman called Virginia whom he had known for some time. He turned to Virginia for comfort away from Julie’s violent tantrums and demands. Did Bamber tell the author of this piece this ?[9] Julie was becoming more and more difficult and resented Brett Collins being around and suspected that they were lovers.

Brett had said he was experienced in the sale of antiques and together with Jeremy they took some valuables to Sotheby’s for auction to raise funds to help with the impending death duties much to the horror of the relatives. During the period before he was charged with the murders Jeremy Bamber had twice headed overseas rejecting what had happened and feeling distressed at the constant press intrusion into his life.

After DCI Jones was removed as head of the investigation he worked under Supt Ainsley. DCI Jones had to arrest Jeremy Bamber for the first time at Moorshead Mansions.  Almost immediately after his arrest and still at the flat Jeremy had blurted out that he had possession of Marijuana and handed some over to Jones.  At interview he easily confessed to burgling the caravan park to prove a point by using a key kept inside the letter box.  He also confessed to cultivating marijuana in his back garden which he sold to friends.  For someone who owns up to crime so easily, it seems to me that if Jeremy Bamber had committed the killings he would not be able to stop himself from confessing.  Nevertheless, in 29 years there has never been any admission.

After his first arrest on the 8th of September, he was questioned for four days sometimes until 11pm at night. The interviews were not audio recorded but hand written each day. The first two days of questioning were done without Jeremy having a solicitor present. Police constantly pressed him on the positioning of the gun accusing him of telling some police officers that the rifle was on the table, but he was adamant the gun was on the settle.  DS Stan Jones asked him if he had or hadn’t fired the gun.  He was insistent that he had not fired the rifle.  They went over and over the telephone call from his father.  The records of these interviews span for hundreds of pages.  DS Jones told Jeremy that Julie had said that he had called her before calling the police which contradicted what both he and Julie had initially told police. The time of the call needed to be ‘fixed’ at a much earlier time for the prosecution to state that he called Julie first. This corresponds to PC West’s log having been recorded much earlier but he altered his testimony saying that he filled the log out wrong by ten minutes.

After days of questioning Jeremy gave in with confusion and said that maybe he did call Julie first.  This single discrepancy was used against Jeremy although it actually has no real bearing on the facts; whether he called Julie first or the police second the events still happened just as he had said.  Since the interview Jeremy has maintained that he called the police before he called Julie.  There are no other discrepancies in Jeremy’s accounts throughout his 29 years. This single issue was used to state that Jeremy had lied. Jeremy Bamber’s account has stood up to scrutiny over 29 years and is very robust by comparison with the testimony of Mugford, who had lied about their engagement, the end of their relationship, Jeremy’s relationship with Collins, MacDonald being the hit man, her involvement in drugs and crime independently of Jeremy and her pre-trial deal with the NOTW for 25k.

Through all of the witness accounts, many people have altered their accounts and statements contradicted each other. There is only one account which remains the same to this day and it is the account of Jeremy Bamber.  This is because it is the truth and the truth does not alter. Other witnesses (both Police Officers and relatives) have exaggerated and embellished their original accounts in the media and to different police enquiries.  Jeremy has coped with the strain of the continual questioning and by comparison with other miscarriages of justice his version of accounts has not altered; he has never confessed nor altered his account under duress.

After his first arrest and release without charge Jeremy was approached by the newspapers for his story.  Naively he went to meet with one after his solicitor advised him against it.  Jeremy was tired of being vilified by the newspapers after his arrest and wanted to tell his story.  Jeremy said that Brett Collins also advised that he should go to meet with the journalist. The Sun journalist wasn’t interested in Jeremy’s account, and continually asked questions about Sheila Caffell and requested any modelling pictures which might have been pornographic.  Jeremy had told him that there were none and that there might have been some topless ones but Colin Caffell would have those.  The journalist ran the story reporting that the newspaper had been offered these pictures and they also went to the police. The newspaper never obtained pictures of Sheila, because they didn’t exist, further proof that Jeremy Bamber had not intended to sell any pictures to the newspaper.

Jeremy’s efforts to tell his story had gone disastrously wrong. This coupled with the burglary at the caravan park made the outlook very bleak.  Stories escalated about Jeremy’s relationship with Brett Collins and his trips abroad.  Acquaintances turned their backs on him and his often eccentric, foolish behaviour and socializing with homosexuals was amplified by local gossip.  His enjoyment of cannabis, later down classified to a class C drug and frequently used by the middle classes was also a major point of “criminality” used by the prosecution.  He was presented as having spent a lot of money on holidays but the reality was on his trip to Amsterdam he, Brett and Julie had shared the same room to economise.

After his arrest the trip to the South of France was glamorized but the fact was that Jeremy and Brett stayed in a caravan to keep the costs low.  Anything to escape the now intrusive and destructive glare of the media, Jeremy was an innocent man subjected to similar treatment as other people who are vilified in the press and subsequently released without charge.

Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow.  His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves NOT Virginia Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge.[12]

Now Jeremy was in virtual exile in France with his friend Brett trying to support him in the only way he knew how, by leading him to drinking dens. After a short period under police surveillance the officers abandoned their suspect realizing that Jeremy was not going to do anything helpful to the prosecution’s case.[13] Jeremy found the pain was dampened by drinking until the small hours of the night and eventually both he and Brett caught food poisoning on their return journey to the UK by ferry. Jeremy was arrested and charged with murder at the port of Dover. On his arrival in a police vehichle on his last day of freedom, there were several women  waving to him and calling out his name. He smiled back as the cameras snapped him in a dazed, exhausted blur of a mask which veiled the pain he would carry for at least another 29 years.  This was a photograph often used over the years by the press to demonstrate that he was a shallow and arrogant young man.



To the accompaniment of violins, undoubtedly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 06:03:03 PM

To the accompaniment of violins, undoubtedly.

Any idea who wrote it April?

The author appears to have remained anonymous - unless I’ve missed something ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 15, 2020, 06:14:10 PM
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.


Look, Jeremy Bamber was found guilty despite the fact police messed up.

They didn’t protect the crime scene

They trampled all over the house at the inept DCI Taff’s orders

They destroyed, removed and burned vital evidence

Jeremy was allowed to have his parents and sister cremated, which should have sent alarm bells ringing immediately

Police took forever to do a thorough search of WHF — long after evidence had been destroyed

Taff Jones didn’t even CONSIDER someone else could have been responsible — he just took JM’s word

Items were left in lockers/desks before they were even sent off to forensics



The police were COMPLETELY inept, incompetent, and followed Taff’s instructions out of fear for their jobs.


Jeremy realised all this after spending a few years inside talking to fellow inmates who told him how stupid the police were — and that’s why Jeremy Bamber is jumping on EVERY SINGLE ERROR/TYPO he can find to try and get off due to the ineptitude of the police.

HAD the police done their job properly Jeremy Bamber would have been found guilty unanimously, given a life sentence, and would’ve been forgotten about decades ago. But the police messed up — and that’s why he’s able to come out with petty discrepancies to try and claim he was “set up”, or they got things wrong.

His campaign team go along with it, for their own reasons...and this will continue until he’s dead or until the courts order that he can no longer request leave for further appeals — which I suspect they’ll order some time soon. He can’t keep wasting the courts time and money appealing on a ludicrous technicality that can’t exonerate him: he’d set a precedent for every lifer in prison to do the same, and the courts would be overrun with ridiculous appeals from dangerous, violent psychopaths who’ve committed the most heinous of crimes, such as him.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 15, 2020, 06:16:39 PM
Any idea who wrote it April?

The author appears to have remained anonymous - unless I’ve missed something ?


No, I haven't, Nicholas. But I'm reasonably confident that it someone who thinks the sun shines out of his nethers!!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 15, 2020, 06:20:58 PM

No, I haven't, Nicholas. But I'm reasonably confident that it someone who thinks the sun shines out of his nethers!!!
That's putting it far too mildly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 15, 2020, 06:30:07 PM
That's putting it far too mildly.

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 15, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Any idea who wrote it April?

The author appears to have remained anonymous - unless I’ve missed something ?


I’ve seen some of those words in Jeremy Bamber’s blog, so it’s definitely originated from him. He’s obviously got someone to post it online, pretending it’s been written by them. No doubt, he’s told them to alter it a little to try and make it look unlike his writing style — but he wrote all that nonsense.

He’s a typical psychopath. He’s twisted everything to try and manipulate. For example, the police expressed shock when he said he was “starving “ and made himself a hearty English breakfast, and sat eating it in front of them. They actually wrote it in their report.

This fairytale above claims they “encouraged” him to eat. What rubbish. Can you imagine police telling a “victim” just a few hours after discovering all their family dead to make himself a “hearty breakfast “?  Or anyone for that matter? The LAST thing you’d do at such a time is try and encourage someone to EAT!

Like all psychopaths, he’s twisted it and said “I only microwaved the bacon”, as though that makes it normal...FGS

You can’t eat a THING after a tragedy. Nothing. But he’s a psychopath so he wouldn’t realise that.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 07:02:55 PM

I’ve seen some of those words in Jeremy Bamber’s blog, so it’s definitely originated from him. He’s obviously got someone to post it online, pretending it’s been written by them. No doubt, he’s told them to alter it a little to try and make it look unlike his writing style — but he wrote all that nonsense.

But why has Bamber or whoever’s written and published it claimed Virginia turned ‘her back on him’ when it was Anji he was seeing NOT Virginia ?


Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow.  His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him.

There’s no mention of ‘Anne’ the barmaid from Colchester.

No mention of him having phoned Suzette Ford asking her if she was still in love with him.

Sue Ford attended his trial https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=88.msg750#msg750 after Bamber used the ‘Hoover Maneuver‘ on her https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/hoover-maneuver-the-dirty-secret-of-emotional-abuse-0219154

Plus Anji Greaves doesn’t appear to have turned her back on him ‘after his arrest’ - she was waiting for him with a journalist inside a hotel room

Media photos are of Anji https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/mr-brett-collins-and-angela-greaves-the-29-year-old-news-photo/830974720 NOT Virginia

There are no photos of Virginia they are all of Anji

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-crime-murder-jeremy-bamber-maldon-1985-111059828.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 07:39:42 PM

https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/

His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him.

Suspect Aunt Agatha knows Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves and may well know when and why their relationship ended
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 07:45:59 PM
Today on twitter via JB Campaign ltd  @)(++(*


JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
#JeremyBamber patron
@Michelle_Diskin
 is the sister of Barry George who was wrongly convicted in 2001 of the killing of TV presenter Jill Dando. His conviction was quashed at appeal in 2007 and in 2008 he was retried and found unanimously not guilty.
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/patrons-and-supporters
5:53 PM · May 15, 2020·Twitter Web App

https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1261339033868947457

Following Barry George’s acquittal he was placed under MAPPA where he remains today

In 2013 Lord Justice Beatson and Mr Justice Irwin said:

"There was indeed a case upon which a reasonable jury properly directed could have convicted the claimant of murder."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21195269
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 08:14:15 PM

I don’t know if any of his supporters have a BDP, but the ones I’ve seen post on Twitter become quickly enraged if you disagree with them, which is somewhat “emotional”, I guess...

Oh, and they block you immediately, but that’s because they refuse to hear. They’d rather be DEAF.

I don’t think it’s in the link I put up, but one woman who began writing to a prisoner in America, and insisted he was innocent, eventually had him move in with her when he managed to get released.

That didn’t end well, either.

Just a few weeks later he sliced off one of her ears and pulled some of her teeth out with pliers...

”Convicted murderer who killed his girlfriend after being released from prison was considered a 'high risk to public'
Paul O'Hara stabbed Cherylee Shennan to death two years after being getting out of jail - Jan 2019” (sic)


The inquiry into the death of 40-year-old Cherylee Shennan heard that she had begun a relationship with O’Hara, after he had been released on licence from prison after serving 15 years of a life sentence for the murder of a previous partner.

O’Hara was subject to a life licence with close supervision and monitoring by the National Probation Service when he murdered Cherylee in Rawtenstall.

He stabbed to death a previous partner, Janine Waterworth in Shaw, Oldham in 1998.

The court heard that on March 1, 2014, Cherylee contacted a domestic violence hotline saying that O’Hara had ‘broken her jaw’.

Police attended the alleged incident but reported that there were no visible injuries and Cherylee had said she made the allegations up to ‘get back’ at O’Hara as she thought he was being unfaithful.

At the start of a second week of a six-week hearing, a jury a six women and four men heard a full day of evidence from O’Hara’s probation officer Rosemary Heyes.

She had been O Hara’s offender manager since the final months of his prison sentence and had prepared a report for his parole hearing.

The inquest heard that he had reached his 15 year tariff and had ‘engaged well’ while in prison.

However, Miss Heyes said that her assessment was that at the point of release O’Hara presented ‘a high risk to the public’ and a risk matrix had calculated he had a 75 per cent chance of re-offending within a two year period.

She said: “The triggers for him would be use of alcohol and drugs which he had issues with prior to incarceration, poor thinking skills and psychological issues.”

Miss Heyes told the court that O’Hara was released from jail in April 2012 into supervised premises in Heywood, where he was tested daily for drugs and alcohol and subject to a strict curfew.

After four months he moved to independent living while continuing weekly supervision meetings with Miss Heyes.

In August 2013 he volunteered to her that he had formed a relationship with Cherylee.

Under the terms of his licence he had to disclose to Cherylee his conviction and Miss Heyes had meetings with Cherylee where she was briefed on actions to be taken should she have concerns about his behaviour.

Earlier in the hearing the court heard evidence that O’Hara had a ‘controlling’ nature and that Cherylee had told friends and relatives she had been punched and headbutted by O’Hara.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/convicted-murderer-who-killed-girlfriend-16486659
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 08:51:43 PM
”Convicted murderer who killed his girlfriend after being released from prison was considered a 'high risk to public'
Paul O'Hara stabbed Cherylee Shennan to death two years after being getting out of jail - Jan 2019” (sic)
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/convicted-murderer-who-killed-girlfriend-16486659

Paul O'Hara jailed for whole-life term over second girlfriend's murder - 2014

In sentencing O'Hara, Recorder of Preston, Judge Anthony Russell QC, said he was "very dangerous to women".
He gave the killer 10 years for attacking Det Sgt McAllister and two years for the assault on Det Con Kenworthy, to run concurrently to his whole life term for murder.
Det Supt Eddie Thistlethwaite described Ms Shennan's death as "truly horrendous".
He said: "O'Hara is a predatory and violent individual who manipulated his victims including Cherylee, praying on their craving for love and attention.
"He has shown no or little remorse throughout this process and his actions fully justify the sentence which has been imposed."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-28089357

Police and probation failures left killer free to murder new partner, inquest rules - July 2019

“Failures on the part of police and probation services left a convicted murderer free to kill a second partner, who had warned authorities she was scared for her life, an inquest has found.
Paul O’Hara rushed into Cherylee Shennan’s home as she reported his domestic abuse to two police officers in March 2014.
He attacked the trio with a hammer before chasing the 40-year-old into the street, stabbing her to death.
It later came to light he had stabbed his previous partner, Janine Waterworth, to death in Oldham in “very similar circumstances” in 1998.
He had been jailed for life for murder that same year and only released on licence in 2013.
After three weeks of evidence in front of a jury, an inquest has now ruled Shennan, of Rawtenstall, Lancashire, was unlawfully killed.
It found a failure to recall O’Hara to jail, despite Shennan's reports of his violence towards her, contributed to her death.
She had voiced her worries to probation workers on the day she died, and the service had also heard of a report of domestic violence made by her just over two weeks beforehand.
However, on March 14, 2014, the probation service chose not to call O’Hara back to prison, as it was said Ms Shennan had then retracted the allegations. She went on to die three days later.
Two police officers were present when she was murdered as they had been called to a report of domestic abuse.
Lancashire police said Det Sgt Damien McAllister and Det Con Karen Kenworthy went to Shennan’s home following a probation service referral of domestic abuse at the hands of O’Hara.
But O’Hara forced his way into Shennan’s cottage within minutes of their arrival, and set about her with a hammer, before turning on the police officers.
Ms Shennan escaped her home but the court at the original trial heard neighbours saw her kneeling in the street as O’Hara “methodically” rained down blows.
She was pronounced dead at the scene – with a post-mortem examination discovering the former beautician died of multiple stab wounds.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/paul-o-hara-cherylee-shennan-murder-inquest-domestic-abuse-lancashire-police-a9015461.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 09:20:37 PM
Police and probation failures left killer free to murder new partner, inquest rules - July 2019
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/paul-o-hara-cherylee-shennan-murder-inquest-domestic-abuse-lancashire-police-a9015461.html

Wonder what Paul O’Hara’s psychological assessments said about him before he was released from prison to murder again and what were the arguments advanced by him and his prison lawyers at his parole hearing ?


A report by Lancashire Coroner James Newton said “the lack of inter-agency management or the appropriate sharing of information” also possibly contributed to her death.

The report also argues there was a weak understanding of O’Hara’s manipulative personality and poor risk management of him.

It found there had been no face-to-face visit carried out by Greater Manchester Probation Trust (GMPT) preceding his release and afterwards there was no visibility of his licence conditions.

GMPT also did not inform police of the relationship – which meant no vulnerable person marker was put on her address.

Mr Newton said if police been conscious of the relationship there could have been “other pairs of eyes” keeping an eye on the situation.

The court heard O’Hara, who on release in 2012 was considered “of high risk of causing significant harm to women”, was subject to a life licence and monitoring.”


Evil monster who killed two of his girlfriends will spend the rest of his life in jail
In 1998 evil Paul O'Hara, then aged 27, lay in a darkened alleyway for Janine Waterworth, 21, and grabbed her - stabbing her fatally 12 times in revenge for their relationship ending.
He was jailed for life but released early in April 2012 after serving 13-and-a-half years for the cold-blooded slaying.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/485882/Murderer-Paul-O-Hara-jailed-for-life


How and why was O’Hara released early from his life sentence for murdering Janine Waterworth?

According to Liz Hull for the Daily Mail he’d been diagnosed with ‘psychopathic traits in prison
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7270477/Convicted-killer-murdered-girlfriend-free-kill-second-woman-blunders-police.html

Don’t know how accurate this is but according to a 2016 article by the Daily Star

Nearly 100 lifers released from prison only to commit another sick crime
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/100-lifers-released-prison-commit-20688006
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 15, 2020, 09:37:47 PM
But why has Bamber or whoever’s written and published it claimed Virginia turned ‘her back on him’ when it was Anji he was seeing NOT Virginia ?

There’s no mention of ‘Anne’ the barmaid from Colchester.

No mention of him having phoned Suzette Ford asking her if she was still in love with him.

Sue Ford attended his trial https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=88.msg750#msg750 after Bamber used the ‘Hoover Maneuver‘ on her https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/hoover-maneuver-the-dirty-secret-of-emotional-abuse-0219154

Plus Anji Greaves doesn’t appear to have turned her back on him ‘after his arrest’ - she was waiting for him with a journalist inside a hotel room

Media photos are of Anji https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/mr-brett-collins-and-angela-greaves-the-29-year-old-news-photo/830974720 NOT Virginia

There are no photos of Virginia they are all of Anji

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-crime-murder-jeremy-bamber-maldon-1985-111059828.html


I’m not up to date with all his dalliances; but I’ve seen an article about Anji.  I can’t quite grasp how he had the stamina to have a trio on the go all at one time, and that was the period between him murdering his family and being arrested about six weeks later when he was apparently grief stricken! He kept himself entertained during his mourning, didn’t he?!

And Brett! Wasn’t Brett his secret lover too? Brett alluded to it in the newspaper article some years later...or was he just some bum-fun for Jeremy before dashing off to meet Sue Ford, Virginia, Angie and “steady girlfriend’” Julie?  No wonder he had to visit his GP for the rashes/sores he developed...Oh, I wonder if he informed the Swiss woman he met in France and had back-scratching sex with that he’d discovered those sores? Probably not...

Haven’t read about Ann, but whoever she was she dodged a bullet didn’t she?!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 09:46:35 PM
Wonder what Paul O’Hara’s psychological assessments said about him before he was released from prison to murder again and what were the arguments advanced by him and his prison lawyers at his parole hearing ?


A report by Lancashire Coroner James Newton said “the lack of inter-agency management or the appropriate sharing of information” also possibly contributed to her death.

The report also argues there was a weak understanding of O’Hara’s manipulative personality and poor risk management of him.

It found there had been no face-to-face visit carried out by Greater Manchester Probation Trust (GMPT) preceding his release and afterwards there was no visibility of his licence conditions.

GMPT also did not inform police of the relationship – which meant no vulnerable person marker was put on her address.

Mr Newton said if police been conscious of the relationship there could have been “other pairs of eyes” keeping an eye on the situation.

The court heard O’Hara, who on release in 2012 was considered “of high risk of causing significant harm to women”, was subject to a life licence and monitoring.”


Evil monster who killed two of his girlfriends will spend the rest of his life in jail
In 1998 evil Paul O'Hara, then aged 27, lay in a darkened alleyway for Janine Waterworth, 21, and grabbed her - stabbing her fatally 12 times in revenge for their relationship ending.
He was jailed for life but released early in April 2012 after serving 13-and-a-half years for the cold-blooded slaying.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/485882/Murderer-Paul-O-Hara-jailed-for-life


How and why was O’Hara released early from his life sentence for murdering Janine Waterworth?

According to Liz Hull for the Daily Mail he’d been diagnosed with ‘psychopathic traits in prison
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7270477/Convicted-killer-murdered-girlfriend-free-kill-second-woman-blunders-police.html

Don’t know how accurate this is but according to a 2016 article by the Daily Star

Nearly 100 lifers released from prison only to commit another sick crime
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/100-lifers-released-prison-commit-20688006

Would be interested to learn who represented Paul O’Hara at his parole hearing which saw him released early (2012) from prison, following his life sentence
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 09:50:20 PM

I’m not up to date with all his dalliances; but I’ve seen an article about Anji.  I can’t quite grasp how he had the stamina to have a trio on the go all at one time, and that was the period between him murdering his family and being arrested about six weeks later when he was apparently grief stricken! He kept himself entertained during his mourning, didn’t he?!

And Brett! Wasn’t Brett his secret lover too? Brett alluded to it in the newspaper article some years later...or was he just some bum-fun for Jeremy before dashing off to meet Sue Ford, Virginia, Angie and “steady girlfriend’” Julie?  No wonder he had to visit his GP for the rashes/sores he developed...Oh, I wonder if he informed the Swiss woman he met in France and had back-scratching sex with that he’d discovered those sores? Probably not...

Haven’t read about Ann, but whoever she was she dodged a bullet didn’t she?!

JM wouldn’t let Bamber touch her so guess that’s why he went looking elsewhere

Aunt Agatha said she was with Bamber for 18 years - wonder if he was seeing anyone else during that time that AA didn’t know about?


In addition, Mike never even knew I existed until he found the paperwork!

How many years was it before Mike Tesko found out about AA?

He wanted to protect me as much as possible.  I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days.  We had time alone, had photos taken together...
Yes we did.  We had an officer maybe at one end of the room, sat quite a distance and we were able to do what we wanted, within reason of course.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2020, 11:49:56 PM
LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993

This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.

What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic).
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/

According to Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The Murders at White House Farm

Jeremy states that he and Sheila were closest, ‘from my being 15 and her 18 or 19, until I was 19 and off to Australia. Those four years were great for both of us and we had lots of good times together. She was so protective of me and really kind and sensitive.’

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PR4&lpg=PR4&dq=carol+ann+lee+author+website&source=bl&ots=jQH-N3HbyW&sig=ACfU3U0A1CQFy0v653CLoUrOPwKUN98-VA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXvN-U7LbpAhVHSsAKHWUaBB04HhDoATAFegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=carol%20ann%20lee%20author%20website&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 16, 2020, 12:17:15 AM
JM wouldn’t let Bamber touch her so guess that’s why he went looking elsewhere

Aunt Agatha said she was with Bamber for 18 years - wonder if he was seeing anyone else during that time that AA didn’t know about?

How many years was it before Mike Tesko found out about AA?


I seem to remember AA saying she first wrote to him in 1990, so if that’s true she only knew him through prison visits and letters.

She also said he was Godfather to her twins...which is impossible.

I’ve noticed how her writing style and persona changes too...she’s definitely putting on an act — if she is a SHE...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 16, 2020, 12:22:43 AM

I seem to remember AA saying she first wrote to him in 1990, so if that’s true she only knew him through prison visits and letters.

She also said he was Godfather to her twins...which is impossible.

I’ve noticed how her writing style and persona changes too...she’s definitely putting on an act — is she is a SHE...
Provide more arguments to support your claims, please.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 16, 2020, 08:26:31 AM
Provide more arguments to support your claims, please.


I haven’t “claimed” anything — I’ve merely repeated what AA has said on here — that Jeremy Bamber is Godfather to her twin children. You’ll find it in her posts

If you want me to provide more arguments why I don’t believe that, I shall😌

I’ve never been to a christening in a church and seen a prison van pull up with a Cat-A convicted mass-murderer who’d shot dead two little six-year-old boys in their heads while they slept peacefully in their beds cuddling their teddy bears; one sucking his thumb...and who also killed his mother and father, plus his sister too...walk into the church, handcuffed and flanked by prison guards; then step forward and cradle his Godchildren in his arms as the Vicar blessed them all

Have you ever seen that?😳

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 16, 2020, 08:29:46 AM
Oops, I forgot to add my argument to the other statement you’ve highlighted.

AA said she first “met” Jeremy Bamber in 1990 when she wrote to him. She said it — not me. I’ve merely repeated HER words. You’ll find them all if you go through her posts 😚
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 16, 2020, 09:18:19 AM

I haven’t “claimed” anything — I’ve merely repeated what AA has said on here — that Jeremy Bamber is Godfather to her twin children. You’ll find it in her posts

If you want me to provide more arguments why I don’t believe that, I shall😌

I’ve never been to a christening in a church and seen a prison van pull up with a Cat-A convicted mass-murderer who’d shot dead two little six-year-old boys in their heads while they slept peacefully in their beds cuddling their teddy bears; one sucking his thumb...and who also killed his mother and father, plus his sister too...walk into the church, handcuffed and flanked by prison guards; then step forward and cradle his Godchildren in his arms as the Vicar blessed them all

Have you ever seen that?😳

https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-it-possible-to-have-godparents-by-proxy/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: John on May 16, 2020, 09:23:39 AM

I haven’t “claimed” anything — I’ve merely repeated what AA has said on here — that Jeremy Bamber is Godfather to her twin children. You’ll find it in her posts

If you want me to provide more arguments why I don’t believe that, I shall

I’ve never been to a christening in a church and seen a prison van pull up with a Cat-A convicted mass-murderer who’d shot dead two little six-year-old boys in their heads while they slept peacefully in their beds cuddling their teddy bears; one sucking his thumb...and who also killed his mother and father, plus his sister too...walk into the church, handcuffed and flanked by prison guards; then step forward and cradle his Godchildren in his arms as the Vicar blessed them all

Have you ever seen that?

It was probably an informal arrangement, no doubt AA will clarify if she deems it appropriate.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 16, 2020, 09:44:56 AM
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-it-possible-to-have-godparents-by-proxy/


Thank you, Daisy

The link you’ve sent states that the Godparent must be present; however, in special circumstances where one can’t attend the Church may allow the absent Godparent to “attend” by Skype. Obviously, this new rule has been made for this day and age and is recent. Regardless, even had that been allowed way back when, Jeremy Bamber isn’t allowed use of the internet — so that couldn’t have happened. Besides the prison not allowing it, the Church would balk at the idea of such a revolting suggestion.

Further, as AA has two twin boys, I can’t see any vicar/priest allowing a convicted double child murderer becoming a Godparent — they expect Godparents to be decent, kind, and to be a part of their godchild’s life, bringing them up in the Christian faith. Furthermore, AA states that Jeremy became religious in prison (like so many do 😌) and became a Muslim. So that too would mean he couldn’t become a Christian Godfather.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 16, 2020, 09:51:40 AM
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-it-possible-to-have-godparents-by-proxy/


I don’t usually find time to search, but by luck I stumbled upon this written by Aunt Agatha some years back...

She says that Jeremy goes to daily prayers and had become a Muslim

I wonder what made him take up religion?😌
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 16, 2020, 10:27:14 AM

I haven’t “claimed” anything — I’ve merely repeated what AA has said on here — that Jeremy Bamber is Godfather to her twin children. You’ll find it in her posts

If you want me to provide more arguments why I don’t believe that, I shall😌

I’ve never been to a christening in a church and seen a prison van pull up with a Cat-A convicted mass-murderer who’d shot dead two little six-year-old boys in their heads while they slept peacefully in their beds cuddling their teddy bears; one sucking his thumb...and who also killed his mother and father, plus his sister too...walk into the church, handcuffed and flanked by prison guards; then step forward and cradle his Godchildren in his arms as the Vicar blessed them all

Have you ever seen that?😳

It was your words "which is impossible"  that I wanted you to expand on.  Why is that impossible?   Same for the other claim you make.

" if that’s true she only knew him through prison visits and letters."  How did you work that out?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Brietta on May 16, 2020, 11:04:31 AM
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-it-possible-to-have-godparents-by-proxy/

But it is an ersatz sort of thing and in my opinion quite meaningless as far as being a Godparent is concerned.

Snip
However, if a special person who you wanted to be a godparent is unable to make it to a christening, there is no reason why they can’t be asked to take on a godparent-like role unofficially, and that kind of relationship can be encouraged throughout the child’s life, but they wouldn’t be entered into the Baptism Register after the christening. If the church has the facilities, they could perhaps be linked via Skype or similar software, so they can still see the service.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 11:26:19 AM

I don’t usually find time to search, but by luck I stumbled upon this written by Aunt Agatha some years back...

She says that Jeremy goes to daily prayers and had become a Muslim

I wonder what made him take up religion?😌

Aunt Agatha states it‘Was solely to meet his own needs’

What was he after - a different food menu ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 16, 2020, 11:27:58 AM
But it is an ersatz sort of thing and in my opinion quite meaningless as far as being a Godparent is concerned.

Snip
However, if a special person who you wanted to be a godparent is unable to make it to a christening, there is no reason why they can’t be asked to take on a godparent-like role unofficially, and that kind of relationship can be encouraged throughout the child’s life, but they wouldn’t be entered into the Baptism Register after the christening. If the church has the facilities, they could perhaps be linked via Skype or similar software, so they can still see the service.



That’s a possibility, I guess

Aunt Agatha made Jeremy Bamber her twin sons unofficial Godfather by telling him he was, but as he’s a Muslim he wouldn’t be suitable as a Christian Godparent. And I thought he didn’t like the church and actually hated them all?

I find it quite ironic that Agatha has twin sons — just like Sheila did....

What a coincidence, eh?😳



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 16, 2020, 11:35:41 AM
Aunt Agatha states it‘Was solely to meet his own needs’

What was he after - a different food menu ?


😂😂😂

I wonder if that was a slip of tongue?

Maybe AA didn’t mean to say what she was thinking?

I know that lots of prisoners become extremely religious and tell everyone they’ve found God...strange, isn’t it?😌

In his case he’s chosen to pray to Allah — so no more bacon sarnies for him!

God, the more that comes out about him the more he fits every trait of a typical life-term prisoner who plays the system...

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 11:39:19 AM

😂😂😂

I wonder if that was a slip of tongue?

Maybe AA didn’t mean to say what she was thinking?

I know that lots of prisoners become extremely religious and tell everyone they’ve found God...strange, isn’t it?😌

In his case he’s chosen to pray to Allah — so no more bacon sarnies for him!

God, the more that comes out about him the more he fits every trait of a typical life-term prisoner who plays the system...

Probably not

She’s indicated he’s greedy when it comes to money
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 11:48:19 AM

😂😂😂

I wonder if that was a slip of tongue?

Maybe AA didn’t mean to say what she was thinking?

I know that lots of prisoners become extremely religious and tell everyone they’ve found God...strange, isn’t it?😌

In his case he’s chosen to pray to Allah — so no more bacon sarnies for him!

God, the more that comes out about him the more he fits every trait of a typical life-term prisoner who plays the system...

According to Aunt Agatha she was sent the draft of Wilkes book to read through - did you know that?

I don't know how it works today but before Wilkes ' book came out I was sent the draft to read through as Jeremy could not receive it all.  Please bare in mind when judging that book, Jeremy and I were grasping at straws:  we were working in the dark. Light was only shed on his case a few years back. At the time , we tried to cover everything..... With hindsight , we knew so little.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 11:54:36 AM
She’s indicated he’s greedy when it comes to money

Aunt Agatha has also said Bamber lies and is aggressive - actually what she said was he ‘became more aggressive

until he began to control the Groups and the campaign.  He had never tried to control me before....and I feel he found me difficult to deal with, so yes, he changed again.  He began to lie to me and become more aggressive towards me......however, T***** B***** was the main cause behind that.  Her lies upset and confused him.....wasted his time chasing flying pigs whilst he should have been concentrating on his campaign.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 12:11:47 PM

Thank you, Daisy

The link you’ve sent states that the Godparent must be present; however, in special circumstances where one can’t attend the Church may allow the absent Godparent to “attend” by Skype. Obviously, this new rule has been made for this day and age and is recent. Regardless, even had that been allowed way back when, Jeremy Bamber isn’t allowed use of the internet — so that couldn’t have happened. Besides the prison not allowing it, the Church would balk at the idea of such a revolting suggestion.

Further, as AA has two twin boys, I can’t see any vicar/priest allowing a convicted double child murderer becoming a Godparent — they expect Godparents to be decent, kind, and to be a part of their godchild’s life, bringing them up in the Christian faith. Furthermore, AA states that Jeremy became religious in prison (like so many do 😌) and became a Muslim. So that too would mean he couldn’t become a Christian Godfather.

Bamber probably isn’t officially their Godfather and suspect it’s seen as more of a ‘status’ thing
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 01:16:49 PM
Would be interested to hear how Aunt Agatha thinks SC had the ‘time’ and ‘know how’ to murder her children, parents, then herself

Today I do not Campaign or work in any way for Jeremy's release.  I gave that up years ago!

Neither am I concerned regarding his release or continued imprisonment.

Any feelings or desires I had then with regard to helping him further have now dissipated - the day he chose to believe a bunch of complete strangers over me was the day I turned my back on him.

I do however remain of the view that Sheila did have the time and know-how, to kill her immediate family.

It is not that I believe that Jeremy 'could not do it'....that would be quite pathetic, but I do believe in what he told me all those years ago......and only recently did facts to prove the statements he made to me become public.

Jeremy never changed his story - not once!!

He did not 'hate' his family....that is far from true in IMO.

He did not try to sell photo's to the Sun newspaper.......the paper got in touch with him asking he bring modelling photo's of Sheila. Jeremy took a bunch of photo's.  They wanted to buy some - Jeremy refused to sell them!

As for making a breakfast the following morning:  Many officers had worked through the night and continued to stay well past their shift ending.  Jeremy was in a confused and very upset state.  He was told to go and rest by the officers. He could not and wanted to keep busy - just doing something in order to help in some small way. He was told to eat but could not, however he set about cooking something for the officers on duty that morning.

I have questioned Jeremy many, many times about his actions before and after the sad events of that night.  In the back of my mind there has always been an element of doubt - 'did he do it?'     That doubt has remained with me to this day........however the doubt is there only because I was not there myself that night and I genuinely do not know exactly what happened either.   Though I will add, that during our discussions, nothing he said ever had me believe for a second that he definitely did it.

I could be wrong..........I have no qualifications or experience in defining whether a person be guilty or not guilty of anything.........all I have are my instincts, and with all the information I received from Jeremy, my instincts tell me he is innocent.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
Aunt Agatha clearly wasn’t being honest when she made the claim

Today I do not Campaign or work in any way for Jeremy's release.  I gave that up years ago!

Neither am I concerned regarding his release or continued imprisonment.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 16, 2020, 01:26:38 PM
Aunt Agatha clearly wasn’t being honest when she made the claim
Who cares?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
Who cares?

As John Collins pointed out in his book ‘Crime Lab Report’,

There seems to be an honesty deficit within the innocent movement’

Bamber’s innocence fraud is often highlighted by those who campaign for him - or in Aunt Agathas case - have campaigned for him

‘Malicious tactics’ is another way to describe innocence fraud
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 16, 2020, 01:44:18 PM
As John Collins pointed out in his book ‘Crime Lab Report’,

There seems to be an honesty deficit within the innocent movement’

Bamber’s innocence fraud is often highlighted by those who campaign for him - or in Aunt Agathas case - have campaigned for him
But that would suggest she's complicit in some sort of fraud, which is patently not the case. She fundamentally believe him innocent and is not some co-conspirator. Surely you know only too well how one can be persuaded?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 01:47:17 PM
She fundamentally believe him innocent and is not some co-conspirator.

Maybe Aunt Agatha should take a lie detector test because it seems to me her views on Bamber’s stance change with the wind
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 01:49:19 PM
But that would suggest she's complicit in some sort of fraud

Aunt Agatha has lied on this forum several times

What motivated her to do so I don’t know

One example is when she made claim she had ‘never ever‘ posted photos of Bamber’s possessions


I have never, Ever, posted photos of Jeremy's belongings until the other day.


I know I haven't as they haven't been out the box to photograph.

Anybody else seen these so called photos I was supposed to have uploaded.?



I've just read that and you're right. I must have posted it briefly then deleted it immediately afterwards.

I know for certain, unless you've copied it Nicholas, that no photos other than what I put on here recently, exist.

I apologise for my error.

Even when Aunt Agatha’s showed to be wrong she doesn’t fully accept she was wrong she claims, ‘I know for certain, unless you've copied it Nicholas, that no photos other than what I put on here recently, exist
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 16, 2020, 01:54:54 PM
Aunt Agatha has lied on this forum several times

What motivated her to do so I don’t know

One example is when she made claim she had ‘never ever‘ posted photos of Bamber’s possessions
I honestly don't think it warrants constant beration. She's clearly in love with the guy and it looks to me like she would be willing to defend him with her last breath. Just leave her to it.
There's no ulterior motive, she's not a propaganda conduit.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 02:01:42 PM
she's not a propaganda conduit.

You don’t think ?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11464.msg588683#msg588683

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10266.msg479345/topicseen.html#msg479345
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
There's no ulterior motive
Am not so sure

I've just read that and you're right. I must have posted it briefly then deleted it immediately afterwards.

I know for certain, unless you've copied it Nicholas, that no photos other than what I put on here recently, exist.

I apologise for my error.

Maybe you can explain what she meant by the above ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
and is not some co-conspirator

Would you define someone like Mike Tesco as a ‘co conspirator’ to Bamber’s innocence fraud ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 16, 2020, 02:12:43 PM
Would you define someone like Mike Tesco as a ‘co conspirator’ to Bamber’s innocence fraud ?
I don't know who that is, but he's got a great name.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 02:51:24 PM
Surely you know only too well how one can be persuaded?

Are you referring to the groupthink within the innocence movement or something else?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 08:13:46 PM
Julie didn't know that Liz slept with Jeremy so whoever did write it, got it wrong.

L Harworth here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/l-harworth

Wrote and published,

‘I also know if I was an evil murderer and the only person who knew what I'd done was my really jealous, possessive girlfriend, the last thing I'd want to do is piss her off by shagging her best friend then dumping her! Now that would be really dumb! Hell hath no fury....   
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 08:15:33 PM
Julie didn't know that Liz slept with Jeremy so whoever did write it, got it wrong.

Why hasn’t Trudi Benjamin corrected the lies
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2020, 09:19:20 PM
she's not a propaganda conduit.

You were saying

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 17, 2020, 10:49:30 AM
It was your words "which is impossible"  that I wanted you to expand on.  Why is that impossible?   Same for the other claim you make.

" if that’s true she only knew him through prison visits and letters."  How did you work that out?


I already explained why it’s impossible for Jeremy Bamber to have been made Godfather.

A few quick reminders why:

He was incarcerated in prison as an A Cat prisoner, so wouldn’t be able to attend a Christening in a church — which makes it impossible.

In special cases a Godparent can watch the event via Skype, but that’s recent, and JB has never been allowed use of the Internet

The Church wouldn’t allow a convicted imprisoned mass murderer, who’d shot dead two little boys (twins) who were just six-years-old

The church would find it revolting that a woman wanted such a man to be a Godfather to her children, who by amazing coincidence happened to be twin boys too. It’s vile, sick and  twisted, and if people can’t see that, then I pity them

Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim, and Muslims can’t become Christian Godfathers



Regarding your next question: how did I work out AA only knew JB through letters and prison visits...she first wrote to him in 1990 — when he’d already been in prison for five years. My maths may not be perfect, but even I can work out Agatha only knew him though letters, visits and hurried phone calls...

Would you like me to post where she says she first “met” him in 1990?🙂



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 17, 2020, 10:54:56 AM
You were saying
And what?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 17, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
According to Aunt Agatha she was sent the draft of Wilkes book to read through - did you know that?


I’ve never heard that one, Nicholas

Never heard of Wilkes, either...did he write a fairytale?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 17, 2020, 10:56:46 AM

I already explained why it’s impossible for Jeremy Bamber to have been made Godfather.

A few quick reminders why:

He was incarcerated in prison as an A Cat prisoner, so wouldn’t be able to attend a Christening in a church — which makes it impossible.

In special cases a Godparent can watch the event via Skype, but that’s recent, and JB has never been allowed use of the Internet

The Church wouldn’t allow a convicted imprisoned mass murderer, who’d shot dead two little boys (twins) who were just six-years-old

The church would find it revolting that a woman wanted such a man to be a Godfather to her children, who by amazing coincidence happened to be twin boys too. It’s vile, sick and  twisted, and if people can’t see that, then I pity them

Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim, and Muslims can’t become Christian Godfathers



Regarding your next question: how did I work out AA only knew JB through letters and prison visits...she first wrote to him in 1990 — when he’d already been in prison for five years. My maths may not be perfect, but even I can work out Agatha only knew him though letters, visits and hurried phone calls...

Would you like me to post where she says she first “met” him in 1990?🙂
Thanks for that I now understand your reasoning.  I know nothing about the case so I can't help you with any details that you request.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Admin on May 17, 2020, 11:06:01 AM

I already explained why it’s impossible for Jeremy Bamber to have been made Godfather.

A few quick reminders why:

He was incarcerated in prison as an A Cat prisoner, so wouldn’t be able to attend a Christening in a church — which makes it impossible.

In special cases a Godparent can watch the event via Skype, but that’s recent, and JB has never been allowed use of the Internet

The Church wouldn’t allow a convicted imprisoned mass murderer, who’d shot dead two little boys (twins) who were just six-years-old

The church would find it revolting that a woman wanted such a man to be a Godfather to her children, who by amazing coincidence happened to be twin boys too. It’s vile, sick and  twisted, and if people can’t see that, then I pity them

Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim, and Muslims can’t become Christian Godfathers



Regarding your next question: how did I work out AA only knew JB through letters and prison visits...she first wrote to him in 1990 — when he’d already been in prison for five years. My maths may not be perfect, but even I can work out Agatha only knew him though letters, visits and hurried phone calls...

Would you like me to post where she says she first “met” him in 1990?🙂

Unofficial godfather is the most likely scenario IMO.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 17, 2020, 11:08:58 AM
Aunt Agatha has also said Bamber lies and is aggressive - actually what she said was he ‘became more aggressive


He does lose his temper, doesn’t he?!

And everyone knows he discards people when they’re no longer any use to him, or he thinks he’s found one with better prospects

I wonder how aggressive he was to Agatha? It can only have been verbally, but words can be terribly harmful and long-lasting. The effect on the mind can can be horrific.

I suppose he didn’t give much thought about his Godchildren, either, when he got shot of AA?😳

I know AA says it was she who walked away with a broken heart, but he didn’t give her any choice...he told her he was now with Trudie and no longer needed her...and after an 18 year friendship!! Only a psychopath could do that.



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 17, 2020, 11:19:43 AM
Would be interested to hear how Aunt Agatha thinks SC had the ‘time’ and ‘know how’ to murder her children, parents, then herself


Look, he twisted all the events — and AA believes him.

Making out he cooked for the police? He’s even ADMITTED in his blog that he made himself breakfast😳 The police were stunned when he began stuffing his face after telling them he was “starving”. It was THEY who only had coffee. He’s also played it down in his blog and said he “only made a bacon sandwich” but the police officers said he made a full hearty English breakfast and gobbled it all up with plenty of toast and coffee.

JB twists EVERYTHING. That’s what manipulative psychopaths do.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 17, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Would you define someone like Mike Tesco as a ‘co conspirator’ to Bamber’s innocence fraud ?

Mike Tesko is fab for laughs

Have you seen his Marlon Brando Godfather impersonations he does standing in his bathroom?


PugLove had me in hysterics when he said how he loved it when Mike:

“sticks his chin out and rolls his eyes, one of my pugs does that just before he whips round and gives his plums a good licking” 

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 17, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
Thanks for that I now understand your reasoning.  I know nothing about the case so I can't help you with any details that you request.

I’m pleased you now understand my reasoning.

I haven’t requested any details from you, Robbitybob 🤷‍♀️
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 17, 2020, 11:46:46 AM
I’m pleased you now understand my reasoning.

I haven’t requested any details from you, Robbitybob 🤷‍♀️

Sorry I misread your last sentence "Would you like me to post where she says she first “met” him in 1990?"  As: "Would you like to post me where she says she first “met” him in 1990?" 
I'm not sure why that happened!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 17, 2020, 06:05:16 PM
I honestly don't think it warrants constant beration. She's clearly in love with the guy and it looks to me like she would be willing to defend him with her last breath. Just leave her to it.
There's no ulterior motive, she's not a propaganda conduit.

Guy?

He’s almost an OAP
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Brancher on May 17, 2020, 07:57:47 PM

Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim, and Muslims can’t become Christian Godfathers


Genuine question - do you have a source for this?  I just find that very interesting, if true.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 17, 2020, 08:03:00 PM
Genuine question - do you have a source for this?  I just find that very interesting, if true.

I wasn't aware of that either and in all my correspondence with the man, he didn't mention it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Brancher on May 17, 2020, 08:25:43 PM
I wasn't aware of that either and in all my correspondence with the man, he didn't mention it.

I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread.  I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.

I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on May 17, 2020, 08:47:49 PM
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread.  I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.

I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.

That's OK - it gets like that from time to time  8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 18, 2020, 08:48:32 AM
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread.  I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.

I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.

Making assumptions about other people's motives is common on this board. I'm often accused of supporting Jeremy Bamber, but in fact, like you, I'm not entirely comfortable that guilt beyond reasonable doubt was proved.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: The General on May 18, 2020, 09:36:44 AM
Guy?

He’s almost an OAP
Unless he's also had gender reassignment along with his conversion to Islam (that you can't find any proof of whatsoever), then he's still a guy irrespective of his age.
You're still quite spry aren't you, despite your advancing years?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: G-Unit on May 18, 2020, 09:59:18 AM
Unless he's also had gender reassignment along with his conversion to Islam (that you can't find any proof of whatsoever), then he's still a guy irrespective of his age.
You're still quite spry aren't you, despite your advancing years?

A guy means a man or even in the US a woman.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 18, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Genuine question - do you have a source for this?  I just find that very interesting, if true.

What do you mean by “genuine question”?

Aren’t all your questions genuine?

Whatever, Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim — according to Aunt Agatha.  Ask her...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 18, 2020, 08:43:23 PM
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread.  I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.

I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.

Who are you referring to?

Don’t be shy, Brancher...this is a forum (a very interesting one, I might add), but it isn’t a court room. You have nothing to fear by being open, honest, and forthright.

No-one appreciates slyness...😌
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 18, 2020, 08:47:41 PM
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread.  I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.

I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.

It’s very sweet of you to try and work this case out, Brancher, but it’s already been worked out almost half a century ago...

As kind as it is that you want to tell everyone what your conclusions are, I don’t think the High Court or CPS would listen to you. They’re funny like that.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 08:48:17 PM
Genuine question - do you have a source for this?  I just find that very interesting, if true.

The source is Aunt Agatha who claims she was in a relationship with Bamber for around 18 years

When you spoke of religion, it brought a smile to this old face Ian.

I recall the time Jeremy told me he had converted to being a Muslim.

He went for daily prayers etc..........

This action was solely to meet his own needs - but he was not alone!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 18, 2020, 09:02:37 PM
Genuine question - do you have a source for this?  I just find that very interesting, if true.

There you go...

From dear Aunt Agatha herself 😌

Ask her more — she may enlighten you
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 18, 2020, 09:06:34 PM
The source is Aunt Agatha who claims she was in a relationship with Bamber for around 18 years


Ah, thank you, Nicholas 😊

I missed your post, so posted it too

Yes, isn’t it strange how convicts become all religious 😇

Myra Hyndley did that: claimed she’d “found God”

Loopy Lord Longford was taken in by that...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 09:07:29 PM
There you go...

From dear Aunt Agatha herself 😌

Ask her more — she may enlighten you

Are you aware of this http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10267.msg479352.html#msg479352

 @)(++(*

Aunt Agatha claims:

I suspect Ispy on the red forum is continuing the cover up.

My post calling her out has been removed and this new thread I requested has been disallowed.  I wonder why.

“I think more than just an old hag....her posts only confirm she is now part of the latest cover up.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 18, 2020, 09:09:49 PM
I wasn't aware of that either and in all my correspondence with the man, he didn't mention it.

He wouldn’t have told you that, Caroline as he realised you weren’t thick.



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 09:11:16 PM

Ah, thank you, Nicholas 😊

I missed your post, so posted it too

Yes, isn’t it strange how convicts become all religious 😇

Myra Hyndley did that: claimed she’d “found God”

Loopy Lord Longford was taken in by that...

 8((()*/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 18, 2020, 09:15:25 PM
Are you aware of this http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10267.msg479352.html#msg479352

 @)(++(*

Aunt Agatha claims:

I suspect Ispy on the red forum is continuing the cover up.

My post calling her out has been removed and this new thread I requested has been disallowed.  I wonder why.

“I think more than just an old hag....her posts only confirm she is now part of the latest cover up.



Of course she's aware of it.

And of the post I made on here, which she immediately reported and was removed.

She lying to you Nicholas.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 09:19:41 PM

She lying to you Nicholas.

What are you claiming she’s lying to me about ?

And why have you called her an ‘old hag’ ? That’s not very nice is it  *&^^&

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 18, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
What are you claiming she lying to me about ?



Firstly why she is here.

What her connections to the case are.

Who she is trying to protect.

Her posts are all available for everyone to read.

She has given out info which is not in any statements and ha put out there the deliberate lies, some not on the statements,  and she has waves them in front of you.

Read her posts very carefully Nicholas, her posts are not in any way normal for someone who has no connections whatsoever.

Was it her father or uncle who was involved in the cover up?

If so, she should be questioned about it.

If I'm correct, she's making a fool of you all.



Sorry, phone is playing up. Bad grammar from the Chinese I afraid.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 09:27:23 PM

She has given out info which is not in any statements


Like what ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 18, 2020, 09:30:43 PM
What are you claiming she’s lying to me about ?

And why have you called her an ‘old hag’ ? That’s not very nice is it  *&^^&


I could say far worse. 😂
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Daisy on May 18, 2020, 09:33:33 PM

I could say far worse. 😂

I don’t think she is even a female.  I suspect she is a former police officer who was on the case.  Remember early on “she” said if we knew who she was we would be very surprised.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 09:35:18 PM
I don’t think she is even a female.  I suspect she is a former police officer who was on the case.  Remember early on “she” said if we knew who she was we would be very surprised.

 *%87
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 09:46:34 PM


Firstly why she is here.

What her connections to the case are.

Who she is trying to protect.

Her posts are all available for everyone to read.

She has given out info which is not in any statements and ha put out there the deliberate lies, some not on the statements,  and she has waves them in front of you.

Read her posts very carefully Nicholas, her posts are not in any way normal for someone who has no connections whatsoever.

Was it her father or uncle who was involved in the cover up?

If so, she should be questioned about it.

If I'm correct, she's making a fool of you all.



Sorry, phone is playing up. Bad grammar from the Chinese I afraid.

How are the ‘Chinese’ responsible for what you’ve posted ?  *%87
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 18, 2020, 09:46:43 PM
I don’t think she is even a female.  I suspect she is a former police officer who was on the case.  Remember early on “she” said if we knew who she was we would be very surprised.



Hello Daisy,

Lovely to see you here.

She is somehow connected and is pulling the wool over people's eyes.

I've never attacked anyone on here, in all my years around, and we've crossed many supporters and guilters alike - this one is not here to debate or try to understand what happened. She has a pretty good idea. Someone unburdened themselves to her and she is out to protect them and ensure Jeremy goes to his grave with the truth.

If I'm correct, after reading Every posy she has made on here, then we have a serious issue going on and she needs to be called out on it. .
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 18, 2020, 09:49:51 PM
How are the ‘Chinese’ responsible for what you’ve posted ?  *%87


There's no spell check or predicted text in English  (&^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
Hello Daisy,

Lovely to see you here.

She is somehow connected and is pulling the wool over people's eyes.

I've never attacked anyone on here, in all my years around, and we've crossed many supporters and guilters alike - this one is not here to debate or try to understand what happened. She has a pretty good idea. Someone unburdened themselves to her and she is out to protect them and ensure Jeremy goes to his grave with the truth.

If I'm correct, after reading Every posy she has made on here, then we have a serious issue going on and she needs to be called out on it. .

What’s the ‘serious issue’ you think is going on ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 19, 2020, 04:15:05 PM

Of course she's aware of it.

And of the post I made on here, which she immediately reported and was removed.

She lying to you Nicholas.


I’ve absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, Agatha !

I don’t look at the blue forum and only looked at it ONCE a couple of weeks back. I couldn’t be bothered to trawl through it — it’s bonkers,

You have some kind of paranoia 😳

I’ve just come in from sunbathing in the garden and seen this potty post — whatever are you on about?! 😳
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 19, 2020, 04:20:19 PM
Are you aware of this http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10267.msg479352.html#msg479352

 @)(++(*

Aunt Agatha claims:

I suspect Ispy on the red forum is continuing the cover up.

My post calling her out has been removed and this new thread I requested has been disallowed.  I wonder why.

“I think more than just an old hag....her posts only confirm she is now part of the latest cover up.


Aunt Agatha if the ‘new thread’ you requested was targeting another poster and their identity do you really not understand why it may have been disallowed ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 19, 2020, 04:20:47 PM
What are you claiming she’s lying to me about ?

And why have you called her an ‘old hag’ ? That’s not very nice is it  *&^^&


I don’t mind her calling me an old hag, Nicholas — I think she’s hysterical🤣🤣

I’m tempted to put my photo up: only thing stopping me is some of the fruit loops...who knows what they might imagine up in their heads?🧐
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 19, 2020, 04:23:43 PM

Of course she's aware of it.

And of the post I made on here, which she immediately reported and was removed.

She lying to you Nicholas.

Incidentally, I never reported any of your posts, Ag😳

You’re harmless and don’t bother me at all — I just think you’re a tad 🤯
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 19, 2020, 04:26:53 PM
Incidentally, I never reported any of your posts, Ag😳

You’re harmless and don’t bother me at all — I just think you’re a tad 🤯

Didn’t think you’d reported any of her posts but find it interesting how she appears to try to give the impression you have?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 19, 2020, 04:31:08 PM

I could say far worse. 😂


You’re absolutely BARKING up the wrong tree, Ag 😌

Or maybe you’re jealous in case I am an old hag — which would be right up jeremy Bamber’s street. He had a penchant for older women, and now he’s almost an OAP himself he must be salivating over Octogenarians who still have some “Ooooomph” and a fat bank balance 😛
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 19, 2020, 04:34:49 PM
Didn’t think you’d reported any of her posts but find it interesting how she appears to try to give the impression you have?

Certainly wasn’t me 🤷‍♀️

I’m sure the mods would be able to verify I haven’t
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 19, 2020, 04:39:29 PM

You’re absolutely BARKING up the wrong tree, Ag 😌


Apparently

Someone unburdened themselves to her and she is out to protect them and ensure Jeremy goes to his grave with the truth.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 19, 2020, 05:36:36 PM
The latest  comments on this thread are out of order. I am tempted to delete the whole lot!

Please desist from personal remarks and rudeness.   Thank you.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 20, 2020, 01:16:41 AM
Think Mike Tesko published an email he’d sent to Essex police making false claims about four moderators

Re Exhibit DB1 - silencer

Forensic scientist Mark Webster stated,

Changing an exhibit's identifier is a bad idea. It can lead to speculation that two exhbits have been confused.

This matter was dealt with by a City of London Police investigation.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForSciCon/status/1043855396362948608

Maybe someone can upload the document
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 20, 2020, 01:23:59 AM
MarkWebster_ex_Forensics
@ForSciCon
The fog of time: happens often. Bamber's lawyer gets excited about undisclosed prosecution notes. No, those were made by a defence expert.
5:36 PM · Jul 12, 2013·TweetDeck

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForSciCon/status/355727452837904384

MarkWebster_ex_Forensics
@ForSciCon
Materials retained by the defence can become "corrupted" over the years. I was approached by a lawyer for Jeremy Bamber claiming to have found previously undisclosed HOFSS examination notes. No,these were defence examiner Pat Lincoln's notes  that had been misfiled.
10:44 AM · May 26, 2018·TweetDeck

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForSciCon/status/1000311785474478080

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 20, 2020, 10:22:21 AM
MarkWebster_ex_Forensics
@ForSciCon
The fog of time: happens often. Bamber's lawyer gets excited about undisclosed prosecution notes. No, those were made by a defence expert.
5:36 PM · Jul 12, 2013·TweetDeck

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForSciCon/status/355727452837904384

MarkWebster_ex_Forensics
@ForSciCon
Materials retained by the defence can become "corrupted" over the years. I was approached by a lawyer for Jeremy Bamber claiming to have found previously undisclosed HOFSS examination notes. No,these were defence examiner Pat Lincoln's notes  that had been misfiled.
10:44 AM · May 26, 2018·TweetDeck

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForSciCon/status/1000311785474478080


THAT exciting news didn’t get far did it?😗
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 20, 2020, 06:45:46 PM
Sister rivalry?   Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.

Sounds to me like Bamber was keeping Anji ‘private’ like Aunt Agatha has claimed went on with her and he was purposefully mixing things up

Did Virginia and Anji’s statements back up Charles Marsden’s ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 22, 2020, 12:38:56 AM
Why hasn’t Trudi Benjamin corrected the lies

In Neil Wilby’s recent blog headed, ‘A wolf in sheep’s clothing’ he’s made reference to both the Bamber case and Trudi Benjamin

Excerpts

The innocence fraud phenomenon
“Up until shortly after publishing the first Robin Garbutt article, I had never come across the term ‘innocence fraud’. Since then, enough has been learned about the phenomenon to be able to characterise the Garbutt campaign as a serious contender for inclusion in that category. Alongside the Simon Hall and Bamber cases.

There is a concerning culture of deceit and, at times, flagrant dishonesty amongst Garbutt’s leading proponents; the most visible effects of which are to lie about his own integrity:

“Interestingly, the Bamber campaign shares at least some of those unfortunate traits and it is no surprise at all to find the same class of individual populating both. Michelle Diskin Bates is a Patron of the Bamber campaign.

United Against Injustice?
“To complete the circle, amongst the other speakers on the day was Trudi Benjamin, lead campaigner for Jeremy Bamber. Irrespective of the merits, hers was a genuinely awful presentation, amounting to a boring, flat-tone monologue, read from a script.


The full article can be read here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 22, 2020, 06:47:28 AM
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd

Along with the many other lies and defamatory statements Bamber’s CT website states something about JM & LR and a trip to Malta ?

Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.

Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false

More from CAL

Because the bank were unable to cash the cheque Jeremy had given to her, Liz footed the bill for their holiday to Malta

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=charles+marsden+goldhanger&source=bl&ots=jQISJ_DezX&sig=ACfU3U386bFVeKWt5Tzj4V1oTzCVOxzg0A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgk62q38bpAhVGaRUIHY6CDFMQ6AEwBnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20goldhanger&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 22, 2020, 08:18:45 AM
Sister rivalry?   Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.

Bamber wasn’t with Virginia he was with Anji so it’s unlikely Virginia would have been moving in with him

It’s all BS
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Aunt Agatha on May 22, 2020, 11:14:34 PM
Aunt Agatha if the ‘new thread’ you requested was targeting another poster and their identity do you really not understand why it may have been disallowed ?



Yes. we've moved on, hadn't you noticed?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 23, 2020, 10:44:33 PM
Someone recently posted a copy of the News of the World contract

Does anyone know where it is pls ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Brietta on May 23, 2020, 11:00:01 PM
Someone recently posted a copy of the News of the World contract

Does anyone know where it is pls ?

That's all I can find ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=340.msg7147#msg7147
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 23, 2020, 11:01:35 PM
That's all I can find ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=340.msg7147#msg7147

Thanks Brietta  8((()*/

Will put this here
Oh, sorry for the late reply. I've only just seen this topic.

Yes, Jeremy had a deal with the NOTW which pre-dated JM's deal. His deal was for £40,000 which was given because the NOTW didn't believe him to be guilty and thought it would be a big scoop for them to have the story of a someone who had faced trial on a case that had gotten a great deal of attention, the deal was put together by David Montgomery but then something happened. The higher ups at the NOTW realised Bamber was guilty, they'd been saying this in their paper that Bamber was guilty for some time previous but there was always a belief that there was a great chance that Jeremy would get away with it, even if he was guilty due to the evidence.

But then when the belief changed, they realsied that they wouldn't be paying £40,000 and wanted to have a story to print, an exlcusive - so who was the next best thing? Julie. Her agreement was signed AFTER Jeremy's which is somethnig most people don't know, in fact most people do not know Jeremy had a deal in place, he did.  Montgomery worked with Julie too on her deal and found her to be much easier to deal with as Jeremy would often make phone calls to the news team in the lead up to him isnging his agreement and he would bitch and moan about the sum of £40,000 - he wanted more. Lotsd more.

I posted all of this and more on the other forum a few days ago - and it dissappeared.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 23, 2020, 11:02:46 PM
That's all I can find ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=340.msg7147#msg7147

That wasn’t what I was referring to but it’s along the lines of what I’m looking for

At around 12.33 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY when referring to whether or not Julie signed the contract before or after the verdicts came in Trudi Benjamin states,

The contract has not been able to be located so we don’t know’

The above was uploaded to the WWW on the 13th September 2017
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 25, 2020, 01:34:10 AM
Thanks Brietta  8((()*/

Will put this here


It’s noticeable how when evidence such as what you’ve posted above, Nicholas...Holly, Gunit, MrsWah etc go very quiet 🤐
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Brancher on May 25, 2020, 01:37:05 AM

It’s noticeable how when evidence such as what you’ve posted above, Nicholas...Holly, Gunit, MrsWah etc go very quiet 🤐

But you miss the point.  Jeremy was the accused.  It was legal for him to have such a deal in place and why shouldn't he?  The same cannot be said for Julie Mugford.  She was a witness against the accused.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 10:06:19 AM
That wasn’t what I was referring to but it’s along the lines of what I’m looking for

At around 12.33 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY when referring to whether or not Julie signed the contract before or after the verdicts came in Trudi Benjamin states,

The contract has not been able to be located so we don’t know

The above was uploaded to the WWW on the 13th September 2017

I don’t trust Trudi Benjamin

Have seen the contract, or reference to it, on this forum - The CT obviously didn’t look hard enough or the suggestion of them not being able to locate it is all part of their game plan
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 10:08:42 AM
That wasn’t what I was referring to but it’s along the lines of what I’m looking for

At around 12.33 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY when referring to whether or not Julie signed the contract before or after the verdicts came in Trudi Benjamin states,

The contract has not been able to be located so we don’t know’

The above was uploaded to the WWW on the 13th September 2017

Does anyone know who Jason Holmes is ?

When you click on the link here http://hpanwo-radio.blogspot.com/2018/10/programme-303-podcast-andy-young-jason.html to the website of Raconteur news or website https://raconteursnews.com/ it’s all Chinese ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 10:13:55 AM
I don’t trust Trudi Benjamin

Have seen the contract, or reference to it, on this forum - The CT obviously didn’t look hard enough or the suggestion of them not being able to locate it is all part of their game plan

Plus, for me, she gives herself away with the sheer volume of disfluencies she used throughout this interview

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY

She must have said UM hundreds of times and that’s no exaggeration

Don’t know if she was nervous, distracted, or disengaged but something’s amiss - is it because she knows she’s lying for Bamber and not trusting what’s she saying ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 25, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
But you miss the point.  Jeremy was the accused.  It was legal for him to have such a deal in place and why shouldn't he?  The same cannot be said for Julie Mugford.  She was a witness against the accused.

I haven’t missed any point

And you’re wrong — there was nothin illegal about publishing Julie’s story at all — don’t you think the papers have legal teams? Had there been a problem they’d have been in trouble, but there was no problem at all

Julie Mugford was perfectly entitled to sell her story: the newspaper approached her — she didn’t approach them — unlike the vile, money-grabbing psychopath, Jeremy Bamber who’s ending his life in a cell...

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 25, 2020, 10:24:36 AM
Does anyone know who Jason Holmes is ?


I don’t have it to hand, but I do know for fact that Jeremy Bamber signed a contract with The Sun PRIOR to them approaching Julie.

He was already on remand in prison when he signed the deal with the paper, but when it became apparent he was lying (journalists are very clever) they realised he was going down, and so approached Julie.

NB: Julie confessed to everything to the police long before the newspapers approached her.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 10:28:09 AM
Plus, for me, she gives herself away with the sheer volume of disfluencies she used throughout this interview

She must have said UM hundreds of times and that’s no exaggeration

Don’t know if she was nervous, distracted, or disengaged but something’s amiss for me

Have a listen

I started from approx 103.00 and within 60 seconds she’d said UM around 15 times or more

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY

Didn’t count all other fillers like AH & YOU KNOW but she overused the lot
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 10:41:03 AM

I don’t have it to hand, but I do know for fact that Jeremy Bamber signed a contract with The Sun PRIOR to them approaching Julie.

He was already on remand in prison when he signed the deal with the paper, but when it became apparent he was lying (journalists are very clever) they realised he was going down, and so approached Julie.

NB: Julie confessed to everything to the police long before the newspapers approached her.

She did indeed

But why is Trudi Benjamin and co still attempting to promote these myths and lies

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: mrswah on May 25, 2020, 10:46:10 AM

It’s noticeable how when evidence such as what you’ve posted above, Nicholas...Holly, Gunit, MrsWah etc go very quiet 🤐


I am a naturally quiet person, I Spy.

All my teachers used to say so!

However, I think either Jeremy or Julie being paid by the NOTW (or any other publication) is distasteful.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 10:50:36 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY

The message that does come across loud and clear from this interview is that hardly anyone is interested in Bamber’s case anymore

MP’s won’t touch it

The campaign team struggle to get anyone to listen to them
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 10:58:03 AM
I don’t trust Trudi Benjamin

Have seen the contract, or reference to it, on this forum - The CT obviously didn’t look hard enough or the suggestion of them not being able to locate it is all part of their game plan

And Yvonne Hartley appears to be using the same sorry tactics once used by Mike Tesko - only she’s years behind

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 11:02:05 AM
And Yvonne Hartley appears to be using the same sorry tactics once used by Mike Tesko - only she’s years behind

At some point throughout the interview Yvonne Hartley talks about her research and finding something new on a ‘thread’- she used the word THREAD - suspect she means a thread on one of the forums
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 11:06:09 AM
Plus, for me, she gives herself away with the sheer volume of disfluencies she used throughout this interview

She must have said UM hundreds of times and that’s no exaggeration

Don’t know if she was nervous, distracted, or disengaged but something’s amiss - is it because she knows she lying for Bamber and not trusting what’s she saying ?

This might be a useful link for Trudi Benjamin

How to Stop Saying “Um,” “Ah,” and “You Know”
https://hbr.org/2018/08/how-to-stop-saying-um-ah-and-you-know

Um.

Ah.

So.

You Know.

Like.

Right?

Well.

When we find ourselves rattled while speaking — whether we’re nervous, distracted, or at a loss for what comes next — it’s easy to lean on filler words. These may give us a moment to collect our thoughts before we press on, and in some cases, they may be useful indicators that the audience should pay special attention to what comes next. But when we start to overuse them, they become crutches — academics call them disfluencies — that diminish our credibility and distract from our message.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 11:10:19 AM
This might be a useful link for Trudi Benjamin

How to Stop Saying “Um,” “Ah,” and “You Know”
https://hbr.org/2018/08/how-to-stop-saying-um-ah-and-you-know

Um.

Ah.

So.

You Know.

Like.

Right?

Well.

When we find ourselves rattled while speaking — whether we’re nervous, distracted, or at a loss for what comes next — it’s easy to lean on filler words. These may give us a moment to collect our thoughts before we press on, and in some cases, they may be useful indicators that the audience should pay special attention to what comes next. But when we start to overuse them, they become crutches — academics call them disfluencies — that diminish our credibility and distract from our message.


Using research that incorporates behavioral science, AI, and data, the people science firm I run, Quantified Communications, determined that the optimum frequency is about one filler per minute, but the average speaker uses five fillers per minute — or, one every twelve seconds.

I only counted the times Trudi Benjamin said UM in around a minute - I didn’t count all the filler words she used in the same minute but based on the above she used the UM fillers around 3 times more than the ‘average speaker
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 11:25:17 AM
At some point throughout the interview Yvonne Hartley talks about her research and finding something new on a ‘thread’- she used the word THREAD - suspect she means a thread on one of the forums

The campaign team appear to consist of Trudi Benjamin, Yvonne Hartley, Lorna Lake and Heidi Hawkins - that’s it

The four of them

And Philip Walker,

Five
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 25, 2020, 11:29:28 AM
The campaign team appear to consist of Trudi Benjamin, Yvonne Hartley, Lorna Lake and Heidi Hawkins - that’s it

The four of them

And Philip Walker,

Five

Philip Walker is described as the ‘new kid on the block‘
https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2017/12/new-kid-on-block-philip-walker.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 26, 2020, 02:17:16 AM

I am a naturally quiet person, I Spy.

All my teachers used to say so!

However, I think either Jeremy or Julie being paid by the NOTW (or any other publication) is distasteful.


But you’re not shy in coming forward when it’s to agree with JB supporters that you’re “undecided” and he “may” be innocent...

Nor are you shy to agree with posters who come up with laughable excuses that he couldn’t have done it because he’s “said so” 🙄
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 26, 2020, 09:09:20 AM
In Neil Wilby’s recent blog headed, ‘A wolf in sheep’s clothing’ he’s made reference to both the Bamber case and Trudi Benjamin
The full article can be read here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Further excerpt,

She is also a highly vocal supporter of the perpetual Jeremy Bamber is innocent campaign. Another lost cause to anyone who has ploughed through the three publicly available court judgments on the case. Most notably, the mammoth 522 paragraph Court of Appeal findings after Bamber’s appeal in 2002 (for those with the time and patience click here). 10 years later Bamber was to be back at the Royal Courts of Justice, where a Divisional Court peremptorily dismissed the best of the murderer’s arguments that he had accumulated since the failed 2002 appeal (read here). An appeal in 2009, against the full life term imposed on Bamber, also failed. He will spend the rest of his life in prison.

Link to failed 2002 appeal https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 28, 2020, 06:13:00 AM
Idle thoughts of the humourless and gullible from the forum that's as dead as a dodo's egg...

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10269.msg479436.html#msg479436 (https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10269.msg479436.html#msg479436)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 28, 2020, 08:48:10 AM
Idle thoughts of the humourless and gullible from the forum that's as dead as a dodo's egg...

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10269.msg479436.html#msg479436 (https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10269.msg479436.html#msg479436)


That link doesn’t open for me, Myster

I tried on two servers, too...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on May 28, 2020, 08:50:12 AM
She did indeed

But why is Trudi Benjamin and co still attempting to promote these myths and lies


She’s either:

Deluded

Demented

Gullible

Or needs pin money for her Friday night Prosecco

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 28, 2020, 08:58:59 AM

That link doesn’t open for me, Myster

I tried on two servers, too...


It didn't open for me either.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 28, 2020, 09:06:56 AM

That link doesn’t open for me, Myster

I tried on two servers, too...
It's not worth even looking at, Ispy... but by googling for 'Jeremy Bamber Forum', Charon will ferry you to the land of the dead. They're all over here snooping, anyways.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 28, 2020, 09:08:59 AM

It didn't open for me either.
It's only where your alter-ego resides, APRIL!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on May 28, 2020, 09:35:41 AM
It's only where your alter-ego resides, APRIL!



There are more amusing 'moji's over here, Myster  8(0(* 8)--)) &^^&* ^*&&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 28, 2020, 10:37:44 AM
It's not worth even looking at, Ispy... but by googling for 'Jeremy Bamber Forum', Charon will ferry you to the land of the dead. They're all over here snooping, anyways.

Have they finished discussing their blocked toilets?     8(8-))


(How can an old woman who lives alone block a toilet? What does she eat?)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 28, 2020, 10:39:05 AM
Have they finished discussing their blocked toilets?     8(8-))


(How can an old woman who lives alone block a toilet? What does she eat?)
A whole toilet roll flushed can block a toilet.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: puglove on May 28, 2020, 10:41:43 AM
A whole toilet roll flushed can block a toilet.

Yes, Rob, it can! Thank you so much for pointing that out!

You do make me smile! And I'm glad you're feeling better.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 28, 2020, 10:45:10 AM
Yes, Rob, it can! Thank you so much for pointing that out!

You do make me smile! And I'm glad you're feeling better.
It brought back the memory of when my little darlings flushed a roll of toilet paper and it totally blocked my sewerage system.  $1000 later I found the reason.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 08, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
Neil Wilby’s blog ‘A wolf in sheep’s clothing’

Excerpt

The innocence fraud phenomenon
“Up until shortly after publishing the first Robin Garbutt article, I had never come across the term ‘innocence fraud’. Since then, enough has been learned about the phenomenon to be able to characterise the Garbutt campaign as a serious contender for inclusion in that category.
, [/font]

‘The Truthseeker Project’ by Sandra Lean

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY


Several articles by Neil Wilby on the Garbutt case can be found here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on June 08, 2020, 05:52:58 PM
‘The Truthseeker Project’ by Sandra Lean

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY)


Several articles by Neil Wilby on the Garbutt case can be found here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true (https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)
What an absolute waste of time and YouTube. Totally unlistenable.  First Jeremy Bamber, then Gordon Park... Is Robin Garbutt going to be the third criminal that Sandra Lean has got wrong?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 08, 2020, 06:01:57 PM
What an absolute waste of time and YouTube. Totally unlistenable.  First Jeremy Bamber, then Gordon Park... Is Robin Garbutt going to be the third criminal that Sandra Lean has got wrong?

Have not listened to it yet

Jane Metcalfe emailed Neil Wilby and he mentions this in his blog here

The full article can be read here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

An interesting excerpt from Jane Metcalfe reads:


In spite of her previous promise, repeated several times, that all questions would be answered, and I would receive complete assurance that Garbutt was an innocent man, this is the relevant part of Jane’s response:

As soon as I get time I will look through your list, most of which I am sure I can answer…I just need to triple check with you what your plan is, your agenda is Neil? I need to know for sure that your agenda will help progress mine…we only have the truth and that is all there ever has been from Robin…you have seen enough in your job to understand I’m sure where I’m coming from, I really hope so anyway”.

My response was plainly expressed and, one would hope, very fair to all concerned:

The only agenda I have is a search for the truth. To see that justice is done for Diana and her family. That is my vocation as an investigative journalist and how I eke out a living.


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 08, 2020, 08:49:14 PM
‘The Truthseeker Project’ by Sandra Lean

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY


Several articles by Neil Wilby on the Garbutt case can be found here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Jane Metcalfe sounds overwhelmed, brainwashed & vulnerable
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: steve_trousers on June 08, 2020, 11:28:19 PM
Neil Wilby’s article on the affair is interesting. Poor hapless Trudy gets a mention in.

Wasn’t Prout another Sandra Lean fail
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 08, 2020, 11:40:49 PM
Neil Wilby’s article on the affair is interesting. Poor hapless Trudy gets a mention in.

Wasn’t Prout another Sandra Lean fail

Why, especially after Simon Halls guilt was exposed, is she choosing to attempt to carry on regardless ?

Jane Metcalfe has clearly been groomed and conned by Robin Garbutt & others



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 08, 2020, 11:45:54 PM
Neil Wilby’s article on the affair is interesting. Poor hapless Trudy gets a mention in.

Wasn’t Prout another Sandra Lean fail

Neil Wilby has written a series of articles on the Garbutt case and yes he met Trudi Benjamin and the ‘investigator’ Michael Naughton at some MOJ gathering ..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: steve_trousers on June 09, 2020, 12:35:22 AM
Why, especially after Simon Halls guilt was exposed, is she choosing to attempt to carry on regardless ?

Jane Metcalfe has clearly been groomed and conned by Robin Garbutt & others

She‘s certainly persistent - but should give up, I agree.

Unfortunately from what I’ve read about Garbutt, she’s backed the wrong horse again. He must have blanched when the paramedic told him his wife had been dead at least 6 hours.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 09, 2020, 12:59:40 AM
She‘s certainly persistent - but should give up, I agree.

Anyone know what happened to the long road to justice?

http://longroadtojustice.com/blurb/


Sandra lean
Today, my book about the case, Innocents Betrayed, was launched. Profits from the book are being donated to help fund a new organisation, Long Road to Justice, which will be taking a radically new approach to helping the fight against injustice.

Details of the book can be found here:

www.longroadtojustice.com
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg448049.html#msg448049

‘The truthseeker project’ launch https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhThBT712U8
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 09, 2020, 01:10:30 AM

Unfortunately from what I’ve read about Garbutt, she’s backed the wrong horse again. He must have blanched when the paramedic told him his wife had been dead at least 6 hours.

“999 killer on the line’ https://trakt.tv/shows/999-killer-on-the-line/seasons/1/episodes/7

A husband accused of murdering his postmistress wife dialled 999 to report she had been attacked leaving "blood on the pillow", a court has heard.
Robin Garbutt, 45, denies killing his wife, Diana Garbutt, 40, in March 2010, who was found dead with head wounds.
Mrs Garbutt was found in bed above Melsonby Post Office which the couple had run together since 2003.
Teesside Crown Court heard Mr Garbutt discovered his wife had been attacked during a robbery at the post office.
The court heard Mr Garbutt dialled 999 to report an armed man had entered the shop, told him to switch off the lights, lock up, and to fill a holdall with cash.
He said once the robber had left he went upstairs and found his wife had been attacked.
Paramedics called to the post office said they found Mrs Garbutt with blood pooling in tissue where her heart had stopped.
They said she had died about 35 minutes after being hit three times in the head with a "rod-like" weapon.
Expert analysis presented to the court revealed the couple had eaten fish and chips at about 2000 GMT on the night of the attack, but death stopped Mrs Garbutt's digestion between six and eight hours later.
A murder investigation was not launched until the following morning when the incident was reported to police.
David Hatton QC, prosecuting, said the village would have been busy at about 0830 GMT, when the alleged robbery happened.
He said: "One of the questions you will have to consider, if you accept this evidence, is the likelihood of a robber or robbers being prepared to violently kill a female sleeping in her own bed, at all, but then, having done so, to wait for four to six hours before going downstairs to rob the post office.
"And then, it has to be said, having been prepared to bludgeon the lady to death upstairs and wait for that length of time, to leave the defendant himself unharmed and unrestrained to raise the alarm."
The court heard that Mrs Garbutt had lost interest in the business, and while her husband would get up at 0400 GMT to open up the shop she rarely rose before 0830 GMT.
It was also noted that in 2009 Mr Garbutt reported to police a £10,000 robbery had taken place at the post office, but no-one had seen anything suspicious and no arrests were made.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-12806611

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: steve_trousers on June 09, 2020, 01:47:52 AM
‘The truthseeker project’ launch https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhThBT712U8

Oh dear, she was welling up already 0:28. Not a good start.

Jane Is first up on Sunday. Also the 999 call has a touch of Olivier. At first he is unemotional, as if ordering pizza. Then the emotion tap is turned on.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 09, 2020, 07:08:15 AM
Can we stay on topic please.  Feel free to start new threads to discuss other cases.  Thank you.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 09, 2020, 07:42:42 AM
Oh dear, she was welling up already 0:28. Not a good start.

Jane Is first up on Sunday. Also the 999 call has a touch of Olivier. At first he is unemotional, as if ordering pizza. Then the emotion tap is turned on.

Yep clocked that

Jane Metcalfe refers to the 999 call here

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY

but doesn’t appear to have noticed the turning on of the ‘emotion tap‘

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 09, 2020, 08:55:08 AM
Oh dear, she was welling up already 0:28. Not a good start.

Jane Is first up on Sunday. Also the 999 call has a touch of Olivier. At first he is unemotional, as if ordering pizza. Then the emotion tap is turned on.

In response to someone on twitter re the Horizon post office scandal Jane still seems to think Garbutts case is linked somehow?

Hanksoff03
@hanksoff03
12h
Absolutely brilliant work, it made me cry, especially watching
@Janetsk20073533
 +
@SeemaMistryP
 - Mention of `phantom` transactions sent shivers down my spine. I wonder how many people had been wrongfully accused prior to 2011,when PO gave evidence against http://RobinGarbutt.com

https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=Hanksoff03&src=typed_query

Robin Garbutt told police he was ‘robbed’ and was apparently told to fill a black hold-all with cash from the safe and till - the post office computer system doesn’t link in with his case - unless he’s now attempting to use it as some sort of mitigating circumstance ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 09, 2020, 08:59:43 AM
Can we stay on topic please.  Feel free to start new threads to discuss other cases.  Thank you.

Can you split the thread pls Holly?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 09, 2020, 09:02:07 AM
‘The Truthseeker Project’ by Sandra Lean

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY


Several articles by Neil Wilby on the Garbutt case can be found here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Someone’s posted this on twitter https://chirb.it/GayGdz stating

‘Oh what a tangled web she weaves..
"They weren't real affairs.. ..and Robin DIDN'T KNOW about them!"
"That was all done and dusted, life was good and life was happy.

Until he used blunt force trauma to kill her.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 09, 2020, 09:41:09 AM
Robin Garbutt told police he was ‘robbed’ and was apparently told to fill a black hold-all with cash from the safe and till - the post office computer system doesn’t link in with his case - unless he’s now attempting to use it as some sort of mitigating circumstance ?

This is how Jane Metcalfe is choosing to attempt to link the ‘Horizon post office scandal’ to Robin Garbutt’s case

Hanksoff03
@hanksoff03
One of the 2 planks of the prosecution case against http://RobinGarbutt.com was he had been stealing cash from their Post Office.PO evidence used at trial against Rob did huge damage. Like victims here, the Melsonby PO computerised records also had shown prolonged cash shortfalls

https://mobile.twitter.com/hanksoff03/status/1269990454885564418
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Neil Wilby on April 26, 2021, 08:16:06 AM
Yes.

What an absolute waste of time and YouTube. Totally unlistenable.  First Jeremy Bamber, then Gordon Park... Is Robin Garbutt going to be the third criminal that Sandra Lean has got wrong?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 06, 2021, 01:15:49 PM
He’s tweeted an article from 2003 regarding Ray Gilbert https://mobile.twitter.com/michael47478285/status/1225017729511579648


Has anyone seen the photo fit of Ray Gilbert? https://mobile.twitter.com/JusticeSetUp/status/1389143932102119425
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 07, 2021, 10:36:28 AM
Has anyone seen the photo fit of Ray Gilbert? https://mobile.twitter.com/JusticeSetUp/status/1389143932102119425

Wonder why convicted murderer Ray Gilbert appears to have deleted his tweet of the photo fit ? 🙄
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on August 01, 2021, 08:01:53 AM
If at first, second or third you don't succeed then try, try and try again, but still the delusion continues. The CCRC must be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of dismissing the latest well-worn submission...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-convinced-24661335 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-convinced-24661335)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: colsville on August 02, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
If at first, second or third you don't succeed then try, try and try again, but still the delusion continues. The CCRC must be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of dismissing the latest well-worn submission...

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-convinced-24661335 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-convinced-24661335)

It looks like the Star is the only paper to report this (so far).  So even the tabloids are losing interest. 

Bamber and his supporters know this application will fail, just as they knew the 2011 application would fail too.  Deliberately and knowingly creating fiction from a few sheets of paper is only going to fool a few members of the public.

They are just trolling the system.  It's the only 'control'  that Jeremy Bamber has.

It'll be interesting to read the conclusions of the CCRC, who in 2012 were polite but damning at the same time.  I wonder what choice words they'll use this time.

And Bamber will remain Cat A, no privileges. 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 03, 2021, 01:44:20 AM

Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/deceit-writer-honeytrap-comment/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 03, 2021, 01:57:33 AM
 

Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546

It appears Emilia di Girolamo has deleted her tweets on Bamber?

https://twitter.com/o0gam7bler/status/1215300577418186752
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on August 03, 2021, 06:03:56 AM

It appears Emilia di Girolamo has deleted her tweets on Bamber?

https://twitter.com/o0gam7bler/status/1215300577418186752 (https://twitter.com/o0gam7bler/status/1215300577418186752)
Not because of a change of mind though, it seems...

https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo (https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2021, 07:30:13 AM
Not because of a change of mind though, it seems...

https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo (https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo)
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on August 03, 2021, 08:06:02 AM
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: colsville on August 03, 2021, 11:12:40 AM
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defence at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?

Are you talking about the 'call log'  that's been doing the rounds for over a decade?  Because that is easily explained.

The 'sender'  of that document was CD(1990), who was PC West.

For Nevill to have made that call, the form would have to be a different form altogether, and would have to have Nevill Bamber's name and address in the 'sender' box. 

That box in the top left of the document confirms to us lay-people that the message didn't originate from Nevill Bamber at White House Farm, but was in fact, originated by PC West who was on duty at Chelmsford Police station.

It's an internal form that was generated by one employee for another employee.  There is no connection to Nevill Bamber at all. It refers only to the call that Jeremy Bamber's made to Chelmsford police station, as confirmed in the second paragraph.  Subsequent pages attached to it create a shift log of events that happened that night as relayed and understood by PC West.

The other so called 'call log' that genuinely did come from Jeremy Bamber also has a sender and receiver box in the top left and top right of the form, and the 'sender'  on that 'call log'  is written as 'Jeremy Bamber, Goldhanger Lane'.  The receiver box was filled in with CD(1990), who was PC West, so that 'call log' genuinely does refer to a phone call from Jeremy Bamber to PC West at Chelmsford police.

There may be bits of paper in amongst the 300,000 plus documents that are different to these bits of paper, but refer to the same thing.  In a world without computers a lot of stuff got written and re-written.  But with Jeremy Bamber's track record of creating works of pure fiction, I'm afraid this is a case of the same old same old.

The fact that Bamber and his Campaign team have stopped publishing these pieces of paper shows us that none of this 'evidence' amounts to anything.

Prior to the 2012 appeal, Bamber would publish everything, complete with his fictional account of what happened.  He doesn't do that anymore because he's run out of documents to create fiction from.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2021, 07:01:48 PM
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...
What a disingenuous claim from this woman, breathtaking dishonesty in fact!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on August 04, 2021, 12:51:28 AM
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?

Oh dear, another dim bulb. Even the CT don't try to pretend that Bonnet's log wasn't available at trial. They claim that it was West's log they didn't have sight of while they admit that West himself had a copy of it in the witness box when he was cross examined on his 3.36 time error - a cross examination that obviously proves the defence were fully aware of the time discrepancies on the two logs with the time of Bambers calls to West and JM being important to the vanishing credibility of his ever changing account.

I just don't get how anyone falls for this stuff.


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on August 04, 2021, 08:28:37 AM
Oh dear, another dim bulb. Even the CT don't try to pretend that Bonnet's log wasn't available at trial. They claim that it was West's log they didn't have sight of while they admit that West himself had a copy of it in the witness box when he was cross examined on his 3.36 time error - a cross examination that obviously proves the defence were fully aware of the time discrepancies on the two logs with the time of Bambers calls to West and JM being important to the vanishing credibility of his ever changing account.

I just don't get how anyone falls for this stuff.
Dee Sadler continuing to spout BS on behalf of poor, misunderstood, unloved Jeremy Bamber. Why on earth they think thirty podcasts containing mistruth after falsehood will have any influence and result in his release is beyond me and I would think most other sensible people who have examined this case logically and analytically in depth over many years. Is it any wonder why comments are strictly forbidden on all their podcasts ?... they're obviously scared at being challenged...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on August 04, 2021, 11:31:37 AM
Dee Sadler continuing to spout BS on behalf of poor, misunderstood, unloved Jeremy Bamber. Why on earth they think thirty podcasts containing mistruth after falsehood will have any influence and result in his release is beyond me and I would think most other sensible people who have examined this case logically and analytically in depth over many years. Is it any wonder why comments are strictly forbidden on all their podcasts ?... they're obviously scared at being challenged...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno)

It's somewhat terrifying to think they walk among us, people that look like fully grown functioning adults but are unable to reason, rationalise or debate like one. 

I understand that there are roughly a thousand of them, safely ensconced inside their private FB group where presumably heretics and the less easily persuaded are forbidden. You either accept the holy dogma and the miracle Saint Jem has performed in digging up the sacred call log artifacts or you are part of the conspiracy to hide the REAL    TRUTH!

Like all cults, the difficulty is in distinguishing between the gullible and those that are cynically exploiting the weak for their own ends, or if indeed they are all true believers, simultaneously deceiving themselves and others in an echo chamber, but if it's the latter, why so carefully manage the flow of information, why be afraid of debate?

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Bamber is a master manipulator and while the CT rubbish won't get him released, it does prevent him from being forgotten and supplies a small army of believers to send him cash.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 04, 2021, 11:42:14 AM
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?

Emilia di Girolamo appears to have closed her twitter account in the past 24 hours or so  https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG

Does anyone know if she still supports Bamber or has she had a change of mind ?

This from 2012 ➡️ https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=548.msg16814#msg16814
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on August 04, 2021, 06:40:55 PM
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...

She also either doesn't know or is being deliberately misleading (because the CT know) - that this log was given to the jury to read for themselves on the direction of the judge.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 06, 2021, 12:39:00 PM
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️



‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.

Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.

My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.

I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.

If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?

The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.

If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.

I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.

The Bamber case echoes around the world of miscarriages of justice, just as much as it has echoed around the walls of the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

The barrier to investigating his case – as to investigating many other cases – is the weight of the evidence against him.

He told his girlfriend he was going to murder his family. Or so she said. He showed his contempt, even hatred for his family to many. And of course he was – apparently - caught out by the silencer.

Any evidence of police misconduct or of mistakes or lies would have to be of a substantial nature to overturn that conviction. He thought he had found an answer in 2002 when the Commission referred the case for a new appeal on the basis of DNA evidence, but that was rejected by the Court. Bamber has since focused his efforts elsewhere.

I believe he now claims there were two silencers in the case, not one. The CCRC will no doubt examine and form its own view of that alleged new evidence.

Here is a difficult question: Is Jeremy Bamber an innocent man because he says he is? Is his case for innocence enhanced by the persistence of his claims?

You could say, he is sitting in his cell, going nowhere, with nothing better to do than try to find a way out of the hole he is in. Or you could say, he is fighting desperately to prove the truth and be justifiably free.

A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.

Did he, didn’t he.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents









Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 06, 2021, 12:51:04 PM
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️



‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.

Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.

My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.

I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.

If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?

The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.

If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.

I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.

The Bamber case echoes around the world of miscarriages of justice, just as much as it has echoed around the walls of the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

The barrier to investigating his case – as to investigating many other cases – is the weight of the evidence against him.

He told his girlfriend he was going to murder his family. Or so she said. He showed his contempt, even hatred for his family to many. And of course he was – apparently - caught out by the silencer.

Any evidence of police misconduct or of mistakes or lies would have to be of a substantial nature to overturn that conviction. He thought he had found an answer in 2002 when the Commission referred the case for a new appeal on the basis of DNA evidence, but that was rejected by the Court. Bamber has since focused his efforts elsewhere.

I believe he now claims there were two silencers in the case, not one. The CCRC will no doubt examine and form its own view of that alleged new evidence.

Here is a difficult question: Is Jeremy Bamber an innocent man because he says he is? Is his case for innocence enhanced by the persistence of his claims?

You could say, he is sitting in his cell, going nowhere, with nothing better to do than try to find a way out of the hole he is in. Or you could say, he is fighting desperately to prove the truth and be justifiably free.

A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.

Did he, didn’t he.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents

Bamber to Mike T

“I want to do a piece with the Sunday Times guy David Smith. I would love for you to let him have access to certain documents.
Clearly he’ll need guiding and controlling to some extent - so it’s about showing him all the things we’ve/you’ve discovered over the past eight years”


https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.msg2289#msg2289
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 07, 2021, 01:01:31 PM
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️



‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.

Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.

My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.

I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.

If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?

The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.

If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.

I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.

This is NOT what David James Smith said - unless he’s referring to another article?

What he stated was,

“Reader, I have no idea”

(See end of last para here ➡️ http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf)



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 07, 2021, 09:00:29 PM
David James Smith speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021r ⬇️

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents

Interestingly at the beginning of David James Smith’s speech he states,


‘I met my first victim of a miscarriage of justice many years ago, when I wrote about him for the Sunday Times Magazine. I went to see him in a high security prison where he was serving a long sentence after being convicted of blasting his girlfriend’s parents to death with a shotgun at close range.

I would usually counsel against making judgments like this – because I don’t really think you can tell who is capable of murder or can believe someone who tells you they haven’t committed a murder when the law says they have. I think you should judge on the facts and the law and not on gut instinct. But a less likely murderer than Jonathan Jones is almost impossible to imagine.

Jones was a mild-mannered and softly spoken young man, perhaps a bit unworldly and disorganised. He said he had been in Kent when the parents of his girlfriend, Cheryl Tooze had been killed with a shotgun at their remote home in South Wales in July 1993.

He had driven to the scene of the crime after the incident and had been allowed by police to enter the house and to sit at the kitchen table where his fingerprint was later found on a cup believed to have been used by the killer. Had Jones’ print been put there before, or just after the shooting? What were the police doing, allowing him inside the crime scene? Against all the expectations of Jones and his legal team, he was convicted, his alibi not proved, the single print deemed to be vital evidence in spite of the questions about when it had got there. It was only later that his lawyers set out to further investigate his alibi and found a till receipt that supported his account of being in Kent when the crimes were committed.

I was there at the Royal Courts of Justice when Jones was freed on appeal. A joyous moment, which I was pleased to be a part of. He and Cheryl later married. The real killer of her parents has never been found.

I was struck by the fact that it was his lawyers’ diligence, putting in the hours drilling down into the minutae of the case, that developed the answer. They travelled to Kent from South Wales and conducted legwork, finding key witnesses in their quest for exculpatory evidence.


Back in February 2017 David James Smith published an article for issue 2 of ‘Proof magazine’ - an edited version can be found here https://www.thejusticegap.com/proof-magazine-truth-justice-like-truth-journalism-indivisible/

Under the header ‘factually innocent’ David James Smith states,

’I know people say it’s always the quiet ones and that we all have it in us, in the right circumstances but, really, a less likely murderer than Jones it is difficult to imagine. Even the trial judge thought so, and, controversially, said so.

I met Jones in prison, where he seemed a forlorn, hapless figure and, as a journalist, I played a small part in promoting his case that he had been wrongly convicted. In time his factual innocence would be asserted beyond any doubt. It is only now, in my new role, that I recognise how rare that is.

To date, to the best of my knowledge, Jones remains the only factually innocent convicted murderer I have ever encountered. But, of course, that is not entirely the point…

A couple of points re the above

Jonathon Jones and Cheryl Twooze both lied.

And Cheryl appears to be crying crocodile tears in one of the videos (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-23459713)

If David James Smith makes the claim, ‘To date, to the best of my knowledge, Jones remains the only factually innocent convicted murderer I have ever encountered’ wouldn’t this suggest he views Bamber to be factually guilty?

Man who killed for inheritance jailed for life Man given life for murders at remote farm Life sentences for farmhouse double murder sentenced to life given life for killing fiancee's parents
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/man-who-killed-inheritance-jailed-life-man-given-life-murders-remote-farm-life-sentences-farmhouse-double-murder-sentenced-life-given-life-killing-fiancee-s-parents-1614522.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on September 15, 2021, 11:42:23 AM
Helen Wingrave (https://helen.portfoliobox.net/aboutme) who I’ve never heard of appears to be a new Bamber supporter
 or maybe she’s a supporter I’ve never heard of before


Helen Wingrave
Lives in London (2009 - present)
Do you believe that Jeremy Bamber could be innocent?
Absolutely! He is 100% innocent of the heinous crime, I am sure. There was key evidence that Essex Police ignored and worse still destroyed. Sheila and June were BOTH lying (seemingly dead) on the kitchen floor when the police first entered the house yet LATER Sheila’s body was discovered in her parents bedroom. On the early morning arrival at the farm, police recorded seeing someone in the house. This was later refuted as a ‘shadow’ - so why were a fire arms teams called? Do secure highly trained fire arms officers train to shoot shadows? The significant evidence at Jeremy’s trial were from Ann Eaton and the Boutflours, and Julie Mugford. The Boutflours, cousins to Jeremy and Sheila, “found” the silencer some days after the terrible crime in the gun cupboard (even though police had thoroughly searched the gun cupboard logging the contents on the day of the tragedy, with no silencer present). IT might be noted that BEFORE Jeremy had even been accused Robert Boutflour met with his solicitor to try and remove Jeremy from inheriting from his parents at their death. If Sheila did not inherit, and Jeremy did not inherit - who was the next in line? ROBERT BOUTFLOUR! Ann Eaton was very quick to scavenge the Farm House for valuables following the tragic events and moved into the farm house after Jeremy’s trial. Julie Mugford who had been jilted by Jeremy changed her story dozens of times and benefited financially (significantly) for “selling her story” to a red top newspaper following the trial. The jury were not privy to the truth about Miss Mugford’s own criminal history as a drug runner and fraudster. Yet the prosecution was largely pinned to Julie’s testimony and the discovery of this mysterious silencer (in police records there are inconsistencies regarding the date the silencer was discovered, one report states September, another says early in August)

Sheila’s psychiatrist explained in his statement that Sheila had delusional thoughts about her family and had spoken about killing her boys and her father. She was capable of extreme violence - her dear Friend and babysitter Freddie had witnessed this violence several times and Colin Caffel spoke of it in his book. Sheila was prescribed anti-psychotic drugs, leading up to the murders, her dose had been reduced “in error” from 250mg to 100mg AND administered monthly instead of fortnightly. This blunder could have been catastrophic and exposed negligence within the medical profession…unless…unless there was a distraction?

It is blindingly obvious what happened: The original investigation revealed the killer, a sad, beautiful, lonely and deeply troubled Sheila had killed her family in a fit of psychosis. HOWEVER…Politics creeps in and the “agenda” changed. Care in the Community and the move away from Mental Hospital and institutional care had recently been promoted politically, with millions of pounds to fund the schemes. An eminent Psychiatrist could not afford to be seen to publicly abandon his charge neglecting to oversee her drug administration resulting in such tragedy…neither could “care in the community” be seen to so early on in its birth be a failure (Mentally ill Sheila permitted to be cared for at home by family…goes berserk).

If you REALLY research the FACTS of this case, many of which were not presented to the Jury at Jeremy Bamber’s trial, it is EASY to see that Essex police lied, destroyed evidence and that Jeremy’s conviction was deeply unsound. He has spent 36 years in prison. It is utterly abhorrent.
https://www.quora.com/profile/Helen-Wingrave-1
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on September 15, 2021, 01:22:03 PM
Who’s the author of this https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?

Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm

Everyone copes with trauma in different ways. Jeremy had been kept away from the house when the Fire Arms Team were called in. He had been asked to stay in a police car on Pages Lane with officers who testified that he was distressed. He kept looking as though he was going to break down and they distracted him with talk of other things. PC Lay stated in his 1st of October statement:

“There were two or 3 occasions during the conversation that Jeremy appeared to be getting upset. On one of these occasions he said, “Oh God, I hope she hasn’t done anything stupid.” I didn’t ask him to elaborate on that remark as the man was getting distressed and so I steered the conversation to another subject.”

Lay goes on to say:

“The Witham Duty Sergeant came over to the car. He went to the nearside and opened the passenger door and said – I’m very sorry there’s no hope for any of them.” Or words to that effect. At that Jeremy burst into tears and the Sergeant tried to console him.”

Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask, which  made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge. The only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread. He ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers.

Many of Jeremy’s responses have been used against him, for example, the talk of buying a Porsche was used as evidence to demonstrate that he was already planning to spend his inheritance on a new sports car, but the truth was that Jeremy was referring to a buying a cheap replica Porsche kit. The case is littered with myths and circumstantial evidence. The facts are that there was no evidence against Jeremy Bamber; nothing connected him to the scene. In court the moderator was the only thing suggesting that Sheila had not shot herself. She could not have fired one shot leaving her blood in the moderator and then taken the moderator downstairs and put it in the gun cupboard and returning upstairs again where she was found. Even though this still did not connect Jeremy to the killings, the judge stated at court that because Jeremy said his father had made the call to him – it meant the killer had to be either Jeremy or Sheila and not a third party. It does beg the question as to why there has been so much emphasis placed on the precarious evidence of Mugford and her hit man story which was demonstrably disproved. So, with absolutely no evidence – why is he in prison?

Jeremy Bamber let Julie Mugford and his friends and relatives take over the running of almost every part of the aftermath of the tragedy.[1] Unable to cope with entering White House Farm without experiencing trauma and severe anxiety Jeremy continued to smoke cannabis heavily, Wasn’t Bamber already a heavy cannabis user whilst drinking alcohol and taking diazepam as prescribed by his doctor. [2]

The question must have turned over in his mind a million times: If I hadn’t left the gun out on the settle would this still have happened?Had he forgotten to take the magazine out or not? No, he was sure he had taken the magazine out. Had Sheila noticed that he had left the gun like this? He had blamed himself for his own mistakes, but then the farm was full of guns. A collection of seven weapons including rifles and shotguns were there, and he knew that Sheila could have picked up any one of those at any time.

The family solicitor was later interviewed by police and confirmed that he had advised Jeremy to find out the order of deaths[3] something which was later to be used against him by this relatives and the police. Later when the City of London Police investigated, Mr Wilson told them that Jeremy was very emotional on his visits to him and that he had advised Jeremy that he should be appointed sole director of the businesses.[4] A few days after the tragedy Jeremy had to face going into the farm, Ann Eaton took Jeremy around the house after she had been in to clean it and remove valuable items she wanted for herself and her family. She stated that he did not want to go into each room and she described Jeremy as “frightened, hesitant and petrified,” a normal reaction for someone having to face where the bodies of their family had been found. [5]

The family accountant had confirmed that Nevill’s bank account was overdrawn by almost £100,000; [6] all of the estate was tied up in assets. Nevill had borrowed this money to convert his estate in Guildford into five houses. Jeremy had the responsibility of running the farm at harvest time, coping with the funerals of his family, the shock, his grief and the prospect of having little money for funerals as well as paying staff wages. He was an inexperienced farmer at just 24 years old, and Basil Cock had advised that Jeremy appoint Peter Eaton as farm manager to help. Jeremy was also advised that death duties would be high and he would have to find ways of cutting down costs. At the time inheritance duties were 40% of all monies inherited over £200,000. The financial difficulty Jeremy faced was because he was to inherit both his parent’s estates at once. The accountant told him that he would owe around £80,000 in tax.

Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a frequently after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.”Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief. [7]

Some weeks later after the tragedy Jeremy attended the farm. On the 23rd August he asked both Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttell to clear out much of the clutter that filled up the rooms of White House Farm. This included a large collection of magazines in the kitchen under which Jean Bouttell found the spare telephone. She asked Jeremy what she should do with it he just remarked it was a spare.[8] There was much discussion over this telephone which was later a court exhibit.

Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship. Her endless demanding behaviour must have become tiresome to him. He had offered to buy Julie a wine bar When did he offer her this ? in London and had given her money to help her as a student teacher. Jeremy wanted to be with another woman called Virginia whom he had known for some time. He turned to Virginia for comfort away from Julie’s violent tantrums and demands. Did Bamber tell the author of this piece this ?[9] Julie was becoming more and more difficult and resented Brett Collins being around and suspected that they were lovers.

Brett had said he was experienced in the sale of antiques and together with Jeremy they took some valuables to Sotheby’s for auction to raise funds to help with the impending death duties much to the horror of the relatives. During the period before he was charged with the murders Jeremy Bamber had twice headed overseas rejecting what had happened and feeling distressed at the constant press intrusion into his life.

After DCI Jones was removed as head of the investigation he worked under Supt Ainsley. DCI Jones had to arrest Jeremy Bamber for the first time at Moorshead Mansions.  Almost immediately after his arrest and still at the flat Jeremy had blurted out that he had possession of Marijuana and handed some over to Jones.  At interview he easily confessed to burgling the caravan park to prove a point by using a key kept inside the letter box.  He also confessed to cultivating marijuana in his back garden which he sold to friends.  For someone who owns up to crime so easily, it seems to me that if Jeremy Bamber had committed the killings he would not be able to stop himself from confessing.  Nevertheless, in 29 years there has never been any admission.

After his first arrest on the 8th of September, he was questioned for four days sometimes until 11pm at night. The interviews were not audio recorded but hand written each day. The first two days of questioning were done without Jeremy having a solicitor present. Police constantly pressed him on the positioning of the gun accusing him of telling some police officers that the rifle was on the table, but he was adamant the gun was on the settle.  DS Stan Jones asked him if he had or hadn’t fired the gun.  He was insistent that he had not fired the rifle.  They went over and over the telephone call from his father.  The records of these interviews span for hundreds of pages.  DS Jones told Jeremy that Julie had said that he had called her before calling the police which contradicted what both he and Julie had initially told police. The time of the call needed to be ‘fixed’ at a much earlier time for the prosecution to state that he called Julie first. This corresponds to PC West’s log having been recorded much earlier but he altered his testimony saying that he filled the log out wrong by ten minutes.

After days of questioning Jeremy gave in with confusion and said that maybe he did call Julie first.  This single discrepancy was used against Jeremy although it actually has no real bearing on the facts; whether he called Julie first or the police second the events still happened just as he had said.  Since the interview Jeremy has maintained that he called the police before he called Julie.  There are no other discrepancies in Jeremy’s accounts throughout his 29 years. This single issue was used to state that Jeremy had lied. Jeremy Bamber’s account has stood up to scrutiny over 29 years and is very robust by comparison with the testimony of Mugford, who had lied about their engagement, the end of their relationship, Jeremy’s relationship with Collins, MacDonald being the hit man, her involvement in drugs and crime independently of Jeremy and her pre-trial deal with the NOTW for 25k.

Through all of the witness accounts, many people have altered their accounts and statements contradicted each other. There is only one account which remains the same to this day and it is the account of Jeremy Bamber.  This is because it is the truth and the truth does not alter. Other witnesses (both Police Officers and relatives) have exaggerated and embellished their original accounts in the media and to different police enquiries.  Jeremy has coped with the strain of the continual questioning and by comparison with other miscarriages of justice his version of accounts has not altered; he has never confessed nor altered his account under duress.

After his first arrest and release without charge Jeremy was approached by the newspapers for his story.  Naively  @)(++(* he went to meet with one after his solicitor advised him against it.  Jeremy was tired of being vilified by the newspapers after his arrest and wanted to tell his story.  Jeremy said that Brett Collins also advised that he should go to meet with the journalist. The Sun journalist wasn’t interested in Jeremy’s account, and continually asked questions about Sheila Caffell and requested any modelling pictures which might have been pornographic.  Jeremy had told him that there were none and that there might have been some topless ones but Colin Caffell would have those.  The journalist ran the story reporting that the newspaper had been offered these pictures and they also went to the police. The newspaper never obtained pictures of Sheila, because they didn’t exist, further proof that Jeremy Bamber had not intended to sell any pictures to the newspaper.

Jeremy’s efforts to tell his story had gone disastrously wrong. Did his ‘efforts’ start with Kieron Saunders at the Sun This coupled with the burglary at the caravan park made the outlook very bleak.  Stories escalated about Jeremy’s relationship with Brett Collins and his trips abroad.  Acquaintances turned their backs on him and his often eccentric, foolish behaviour and socializing with homosexuals was amplified by local gossip.  His enjoyment of cannabis, later down classified to a class C drug and frequently used by the middle classes was also a major point of “criminality” used by the prosecution.  He was presented as having spent a lot of money on holidays but the reality was on his trip to Amsterdam he, Brett and Julie had shared the same room to economise.

After his arrest the trip to the South of France was glamorized but the fact was that Jeremy and Brett stayed in a caravan to keep the costs low.  Anything to escape the now intrusive and destructive glare of the media, Jeremy was an innocent man subjected to similar treatment as other people who are vilified in the press and subsequently released without charge.

Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow.  His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves NOT Virginia Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge.[12]

Now Jeremy was in virtual exile in France with his friend Brett trying to support him in the only way he knew how, by leading him to drinking dens. After a short period under police surveillance the officers abandoned their suspect realizing that Jeremy was not going to do anything helpful to the prosecution’s case.[13] Jeremy found the pain was dampened by drinking until the small hours of the night and eventually both he and Brett caught food poisoning on their return journey to the UK by ferry. Jeremy was arrested and charged with murder at the port of Dover. On his arrival in a police vehichle on his last day of freedom, there were several women  waving to him and calling out his name. He smiled back as the cameras snapped him in a dazed, exhausted blur of a mask which veiled the pain he would carry for at least another 29 years.  This was a photograph often used over the years by the press to demonstrate that he was a shallow and arrogant young man.


Is Bill Robertson the author of the above?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on October 16, 2021, 01:24:15 PM
Another ground for his campaign team to chew over when the latest submission is kicked into touch...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16431057/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-murders/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16431057/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-murders/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 25, 2021, 08:34:37 AM
Fill yer boots an' get marching on the road to nowhere...

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19739019.white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bambers-supporters-hold-protest/ (https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19739019.white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bambers-supporters-hold-protest/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on November 26, 2021, 01:42:53 AM
Fill yer boots an' get marching on the road to nowhere...

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19739019.white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bambers-supporters-hold-protest/ (https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19739019.white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bambers-supporters-hold-protest/)

Massive turnout LOL

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 26, 2021, 06:30:21 AM
Massive turnout LOL
A gradely bunch of thirteen... unlucky for some!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 26, 2021, 07:11:20 AM
Massive turnout LOL

A gradely bunch of thirteen... unlucky for some!


Oh dear..

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 12:31:22 PM
Emma Morris has tweeted a video which includes a Christmas carol and a child wearing a ‘This is Jeremy’ T-shirt with a picture of him and the child is holding up signs saying things like ‘we must tell the truth (Essex Police)’

 *&^^&

What kind of person would exploit a child like that  *&^^&

And the deluded Bamber supporters like @JBamberFacebook are retweeting it  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on December 21, 2021, 02:13:10 PM
Emma Morris has tweeted a video which includes a Christmas carol and a child wearing a ‘This is Jeremy’ T-shirt with a picture of him and the child is holding up signs saying things like ‘we must tell the truth (Essex Police)’

 *&^^&

What kind of person would exploit a child like that  *&^^&

And the deluded Bamber supporters like @JBamberFacebook are retweeting it  *&^^&

Good grief.  *&^^&

By my calculations, there are only two serious Bamber supporters, Holly and NGB on blue and neither of them are prepared to state that he couldn't possibly be guilty.

The rest are rather sad. Imagine convincing yourself of something based largely on conspiracy theories and becoming so obsessed that you lose any remaining self awareness and rope in a poor child.

We don't have to imagine because we have witnessed the cult of Trump and the anti-vax wackos do exactly the same sort of thing, all for likes in the self validating echo chamber directionless fools find themselves in.

Gross and shameful.

 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Good grief.  *&^^&

Gross and shameful.

It really is and it sounds like it may be the child’s parents who’s voices you can hear in the background, who have chosen to exploit the child on camera  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 02:40:55 PM
Good grief.  *&^^&

By my calculations, there are only two serious Bamber supporters, Holly and NGB on blue and neither of them are prepared to state that he couldn't possibly be guilty.

Is Holly back over on blue, I thought she was permanently banned from there?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 02:43:07 PM
The rest are rather sad. Imagine convincing yourself of something based largely on conspiracy theories and becoming so obsessed that you lose any remaining self awareness and rope in a poor child.

And the Bamber supporters on Twitter don’t appear to see anything wrong in this - which is telling
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on December 21, 2021, 02:44:34 PM
Is Holly back over on blue, I thought she was permanently banned from there?

Sorry, I should have stated Holly on here, NGB on blue.

However, David and Roch on blue are convinced that Holly is posting on there under the name "CambridgeCutie" because there can never be enough conspiracies on the blue forum!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on December 21, 2021, 02:47:36 PM
And the Bamber supporters on Twitter don’t appear to see anything wrong in this - which is telling

Well, they didn't see anything wrong with graveside readings or baking cakes either. That justice for Jeremy song was hilarious though.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 03:12:14 PM
Sorry, I should have stated Holly on here, NGB on blue.

However, David and Roch on blue are convinced that Holly is posting on there under the name "CambridgeCutie" because there can never be enough conspiracies on the blue forum!

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 03:13:35 PM
Well, they didn't see anything wrong with graveside readings or baking cakes either. That justice for Jeremy song was hilarious though.  @)(++(*

I don’t recall hearing the song - who sung it?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 21, 2021, 03:26:31 PM
I don’t recall hearing the song - who sung it?
They're charging an extortionate 99p for this junk on Amazon, but you can get it for gratis if you really want earache...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwwYggHhHbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwwYggHhHbo)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 21, 2021, 03:34:21 PM
Sorry, I should have stated Holly on here, NGB on blue.

However, David and Roch on blue are convinced that Holly is posting on there under the name "CambridgeCutie" because there can never be enough conspiracies on the blue forum!
Holly's been outed playing for Chelsea blues but scoring countless home goals, sadly.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 03:45:30 PM
They're charging an extortionate 99p for this junk on Amazon, but you can get it for gratis if you really want earache...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwwYggHhHbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwwYggHhHbo)

I may have clicked on the link before then immediately shut it down  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 03:48:52 PM
In the news today - an acquaintance of Mark Newby’s and Matt Foot (re convicted 8 1/2 months pregnant wife killer & grifter Eddie Gilfoyle) Steven Bird has helped overturn the murder conviction of violent, abusive and controlling fraud Gary Walker https://appgmiscarriagesofjustice.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/transcript-of-fourth-evidence-session-solicitors.pdf

Not sure if any of Bamber’s supporters are promoting this?

Michael Naughton also mentioned Steven Bird in his book ‘Criminal Cases Review Commission. Hope for the Innocent?’

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nS8WDAAAQBAJ&pg=PR10&lpg=PR10&dq=steven+bird+miscarriage+of+justice&source=bl&ots=zfzQHd_iAw&sig=ACfU3U1Bmpe1T4irsvJmj88yLEIjfqLqpQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgz-uprvX0AhUHWsAKHe77BIo4ChDoAXoECAcQAg#v=onepage&q=steven%20bird%20miscarriage%20of%20justice&f=false
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 03:49:53 PM
Holly's been outed playing for Chelsea blues but scoring countless home goals, sadly.

Huh ?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 21, 2021, 04:31:30 PM
Huh ?
I can't decide whether Holly (aka Cc) has actually seen the light and come to her senses re. Bamber, or is just winding up his supporters on blue.  It's a Mystery.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 04:51:44 PM
I can't decide whether Holly (aka Cc) has actually seen the light and come to her senses re. Bamber, or is just winding up his supporters on blue.  It's a Mystery.

If Holly has ‘seen the light’ why won’t she just say so here? 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 21, 2021, 05:08:01 PM
If Holly has ‘seen the light’ why won’t she just say so here?
I've absolutely no idea why!  It'll all come out eventually... possibly.  8(8-))
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 21, 2021, 06:17:05 PM
I've absolutely no idea why!  It'll all come out eventually... possibly.  8(8-))

Bizarre
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 22, 2021, 10:19:18 AM
Good grief.  *&^^&

By my calculations, there are only two serious Bamber supporters, Holly and NGB on blue and neither of them are prepared to state that he couldn't possibly be guilty.

The rest are rather sad. Imagine convincing yourself of something based largely on conspiracy theories and becoming so obsessed that you lose any remaining self awareness and rope in a poor child.

We don't have to imagine because we have witnessed the cult of Trump and the anti-vax wackos do exactly the same sort of thing, all for likes in the self validating echo chamber directionless fools find themselves in.

Gross and shameful.

And do you notice how people like Michelle Diskin Bates and other supporters choose to turn a blind eye
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 22, 2021, 12:34:48 PM
I can't decide whether Holly (aka Cc) has actually seen the light and come to her senses re. Bamber, or is just winding up his supporters on blue.  It's a Mystery.

Why, if Cc is Holly, would she not just post here and say she’s finally recognised she was wrong?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 22, 2021, 01:09:05 PM
However, David and Roch on blue are convinced that Holly is posting on there under the name "CambridgeCutie" because there can never be enough conspiracies on the blue forum!

Then Cc is unlikely to be Holly  @)(++(*



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 22, 2021, 09:23:07 PM
Has anyone heard that other moron Dennis Eady here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8

Seems the article he did for the justice gap on killer Simon Hall’s confession has been removed (?)

It’s reproduced here for anyone interested https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2019/07/16/keeping-perspective-continue-the-fight-for-miscarriages-of-justice-by-dr-dennis-eady-originally-published-by-jon-robins-of-the-justice-gap-6th-sept-2013/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 22, 2021, 09:35:38 PM
Has anyone heard that other moron Dennis Eady here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8

Seems the article he did for the justice gap on killer Simon Hall’s confession has been removed (?)

It’s reproduced here for anyone interested https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2019/07/16/keeping-perspective-continue-the-fight-for-miscarriages-of-justice-by-dr-dennis-eady-originally-published-by-jon-robins-of-the-justice-gap-6th-sept-2013/

Dennis Eady is not the expert Bamber supporters think he is - or possibly even what he thinks he is (?)

He was duped by convicted/exonerated killers Michael O’Brien, his brother in law Ellis Sherwood and Darren Hall, but he’s either not figured it out yet or is desperate to keep up the pretence

O’Briens luck ran out in November 2013 when Judges ruled the pauses in his and his brothers in laws conversation between prison cells (following their arrest for Philip Saunders murder) was ‘fatal’

And operation resolute (http://swplive.blob.core.windows.net/wordpress-uploads/S731-Report-Operations-Fortitude-and-Resolute-finalised.pdf) found no criminal behaviour on the part of DI Lewis as O’Brien has been falsely claiming to anyone who will listen

The Criminal Cases Review Commission were possibly duped by O’Brien also - even referring to his, and his two co D’s in their submissions on Killer Alan Charlton and Idris Ali

It’s a long read although the judges comments might be of interest
Read here http://www.2bedfordrow.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/R-v-Alan-Charlton-and-Idris-Ali.pdf what the CoA judges said about the CCRC’s submissions

And in case Dennis Eady, or anyone who knows him is following this thread 

See Part 1 ➡️ https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2021/12/19/wrongful-convictions
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 22, 2021, 10:39:47 PM
Then there’s this nonsense with ‘Carolyn and Nichola’  (one of them purports to support miscarriages of justice) on Swindon radio (from about 112;00) https://m.mixcloud.com/swindon1055/pazzazz-38/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on December 22, 2021, 11:42:49 PM
Holly appears to be keeping a dignified silence. I suspect that she too enjoys the thought of those northern numpties on blue giving themselves an aneurysm with their latest imaginations..

Anyway Nicholas, I have finally managed to see the video and it is far worse than you describe. WTF is wrong with these people and as you rightly suggest, WTF is wrong with the people that don't see anything wrong with these people?!

If that is Emma Morris, I wonder who the male is as she has been telling others that she is a lesbian over on Youtube.

You need a google account to @ them but they do respond until cornered... Slightly interestingly, Yvonne Hartley has been caught out defending Bamber on the decision to put the dog down but then admitting that she doesn't have the vet's statement so is relying entirely on Bamber's word.. oh dear..

Anyway, the campaign team can't block you on the comments here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M&lc=UgwGudS8nkK9475GQsR4AaABAg.9SoEmo3sm-I9VzdfwL0cC3
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 23, 2021, 08:20:51 AM
Then there’s this nonsense with ‘Carolyn and Nichola’  (one of them purports to support miscarriages of justice) on Swindon radio (from about 112;00) https://m.mixcloud.com/swindon1055/pazzazz-38/ (https://m.mixcloud.com/swindon1055/pazzazz-38/)
I've never heard such appalling, misleading and lying bull$hit from morons Walker and Hartley in all my life, although it meant suffering seemingly endless musical din and puerile jabbering of the hosts which preceded it.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 08:36:49 AM
I've never heard such appalling, misleading and lying bull$hit from morons Walker and Hartley in all my life, although it meant suffering seemingly endless musical din and puerile jabbering of the hosts which preceded it.

It’s fascinating how Philip Walker has brought one of Bamber’s victims (SC) back to life and how he desperately attempts to rewrite history.

And fascinating how Yvonne Hartley has been duped by Bamber into seemingly despising Robert B because of the ‘inheritance issues’

Neither of them were there at the time but they talk like they were

And this Bamber was ‘only’ 24 years old BS 🙄. Killer Simon Hall was also ‘only’ 24 years old
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2021/12/19/wrongful-convictions-miscarriages-of-justice-innocence-fraud-whats-the-difference/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 23, 2021, 08:51:26 AM
It’s fascinating how Philip Walker has brought one of Bamber’s victims (SC) back to life and how he desperately attempts to rewrite history
Such as having SC lying severely injured after one shot on the kitchen floor then suddenly fleeing upstairs when she heard the TFU battering down the back door.  Peter Vanezis put an end to that nonsense when he saw the cs photos and examined her body post mortem.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 09:02:13 AM
Such as having SC lying severely injured after one shot on the kitchen floor then suddenly fleeing upstairs when she heard the TFU battering down the back door.  Peter Vanezis put an end to that nonsense when he saw the cs photos and examined her body post mortem.

And Philip Walker ‘knows’ what Taff Jones was thinking apparently 🤦‍♀️ and Sheila  *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 09:14:45 AM
Carolyn, one of the presenters, has apparently been involved with ‘miscarriages of justice’ for a very long time - so presumably she sees herself as an authority on the subject 🙄
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 09:15:42 AM
I've never heard such appalling, misleading and lying bull$hit from morons Walker and Hartley in all my life, although it meant suffering seemingly endless musical din and puerile jabbering of the hosts which preceded it.

Did you hear Dennis Eady?👇

Has anyone heard that other moron Dennis Eady here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 09:29:21 AM
Such as having SC lying severely injured after one shot on the kitchen floor then suddenly fleeing upstairs when she heard the TFU battering down the back door.  Peter Vanezis put an end to that nonsense when he saw the cs photos and examined her body post mortem.

Some of the family hadn’t seen Sheila for ‘over two years’ apparently according to Yvonne Hartley 🙄

But Yvonne doesn’t seem to comprehend these people had known Sheila, whereas Yvonne hadn’t
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 09:37:46 AM
Holly appears to be keeping a dignified silence.

Didn’t Jackie Preece make claim I was Cc?

Speaking of which I’d like to hear from her on Bamber seemingly drug/date raping the girl from the Chequers public house, in the lead up to the murders

”The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’..
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee ‘The Murders at White House Farm)

And also on the Anji and Virginia Greaves saga

Bamber appears to have excerpted a great deal of control over both sisters - what does Jackie have to say on this?

Or is this yet another of those elephants in the room for her like it appears to be for other Bamber supporters

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 09:55:08 AM
Or is this yet another of those elephants in the room for her like it appears to be for other Bamber supporters

In reality it appears Bamber was ‘courting’ one, or both of the Greave sisters, before he committed mass murder 

Brett Collins said one of the Greave sisters was due to marry

Anji (Angela) Greaves married that year not Virginia, according to Kay Page

And Anji’s ‘godfather’ conveniently was a lawyer

Brett Collins👇
Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend 

When Brett Collins first came over to the UK to visit Bamber it seems he was introduced to Anji and Virginia Greaves but not to Julie M
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 10:16:26 AM
Didn’t Jackie Preece make claim I was Cc?

Speaking of which I’d like to hear from her on Bamber seemingly drug/date raping the girl from the Chequers public house, in the lead up to the murders

And also on the Anji and Virginia Greaves saga

Bamber appears to have excerpted a great deal of control over both sisters - what does Jackie have to say on this?

Or is this yet another of those elephants in the room for her like it appears to be for other Bamber supporters

To quote con women Sandra Lean

If you pick and choose points, you can stitch them together to make what looks like a compelling narrative, so long a no-one comes along and ruins the story by pointing out all of the"missed out" bits that make a nonsense of it.
(Source: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg330669.html#msg330669)

The story of Julie M being a ‘scorned women’ was manufactured by lawyers, in reality Julie M was in a coercive controlling relationship with Bamber, who was also using these same controlling tactics on other women, and men, including Brett Collins - who it’s quite possible Bamber slept with when Brett first visited the UK
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 10:46:38 AM
The story of Julie M being a ‘scorned women’ was manufactured by the prosecution lawyers, in reality Julie M was in a coercive controlling relationship with Bamber, who was also using these same controlling tactics on other women, and men, including Brett Collins - who it’s quite possible Bamber slept with when Brett first visited the UK

And for Brett Collins to make the claim

At around 16:22 Brett states,

I think something went wrong’

could suggest he knew of Bambers plans to murder before he committed them

And this statement of Brett Collins will be something the Criminal Cases Review Commission will need to consider if they are carrying out a proper and thorough review

The CCRC appear to be altering how they are putting their statements out into the public domain, compared to past statements made by them on the cases they review
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 12:02:49 PM
The CCRC appear to be altering how they are putting their statements out into the public domain, compared to past statements made by them on the cases they review

Which could suggest they are aware innocence fraud is an issue they need to address

Btw ➡️ https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2021/12/19/wrongful-convictions-miscarriages-of-justice-innocence-fraud-whats-the-difference/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on December 23, 2021, 01:11:07 PM
Didn’t Jackie Preece make claim I was Cc?

Speaking of which I’d like to hear from her on Bamber seemingly drug/date raping the girl from the Chequers public house, in the lead up to the murders

And also on the Anji and Virginia Greaves saga

Bamber appears to have excerpted a great deal of control over both sisters - what does Jackie have to say on this?

Or is this yet another of those elephants in the room for her like it appears to be for other Bamber supporters

I don't think anyone really takes any notice of vile Jackie Preece. Her entire "contribution" can be summed up as baseless circular reasoning:

Jeremy Bamber is innocent so Julie Mugford lied > Julie Mugford lied so Jeremy Bamber is innocent. ( repeat ad nauseum )

If she ever had a nuanced thought, she must have kept that to herself while letting her brain fart all over the internet.

I wonder why she isn't on the campaign team come to think of it.. @)(++(*

 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 01:27:20 PM
I don't think anyone really takes any notice of vile Jackie Preece. Her entire "contribution" can be summed up as baseless circular reasoning:

Jeremy Bamber is innocent so Julie Mugford lied > Julie Mugford lied so Jeremy Bamber is innocent. ( repeat ad nauseum )

If she ever had a nuanced thought, she must have kept that to herself while letting her brain fart all over the internet.

I wonder why she isn't on the campaign team come to think of it.. @)(++(*

She could well be part of the campaign team in one of her many guises on social media  @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 01:35:44 PM
I don't think anyone really takes any notice of vile Jackie Preece. Her entire "contribution" can be summed up as baseless circular reasoning:

Jeremy Bamber is innocent so Julie Mugford lied > Julie Mugford lied so Jeremy Bamber is innocent. ( repeat ad nauseum )

If she ever had a nuanced thought, she must have kept that to herself while letting her brain fart all over the internet.

She is the epitome of a moron for sure
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 02:10:14 PM
Did you hear Dennis Eady?👇

Has anyone heard that other moron Dennis Eady here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8

Until such time Dennis Eady recognises he was wrong over killer Simon Halls case/campaign/confession (https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2021/12/19/wrongful-convictions-miscarriages-of-justice-innocence-fraud-whats-the-difference/) it unlikely he’ll ever be able to recognise his quite obvious errors and clear bias in other cases

But I don’t suppose Bambers campaign team members recognise this either

It was reported in 2014 that Dennis Eady, and Julie Price, apparently gave ‘guidance’ to journalist Brian Thornton on the extremely violent and deceptive psychopathic, misogynistic, mass murdering, child killer and sexual deviant David Morris’s case/campaign

Morris’s DNA was recently matched to the sock used by the killer

Statement by Doris, Mandy, Katie & Emily’s family 👇

In June 1999 our much loved Mam, sister Mandy and our nieces Katie and Emily were cruelly taken from us in the most horrific way anyone could ever imagine. The person responsible for these horrific crimes was David George Morris.

"The loss and grief our family went through and continue to go through is heart-breaking and affects so many aspects of lives. No family should ever go through what we have and still do.

"It hasn't been helped by the constant campaigns, protests, incorrect media reports, make-believe books and TV programmes that have mislead some of the public into believing Morris is innocent. These have blatantly ignored proven facts and replaced them with misinformation to hide the truth.

During their investigation, police found a chain at the scene of the murders in Mandy's home, which was worn by the killer. Morris swore on his children’s lives that the chain was not his. Weeks before the first trial, the police found paint between the links of the chain which forensically matched the paint on Morris’s kitchen units/worktops and it was only then that Morris admitted that the chain was his. It was then that Morris made up his alibi for being at Mandy’s that morning.

"Morris’s claim that he was having an affair with Mandy was the foundation of his alibi but this was totally untrue, he was not having an affair with Mandy and was not with her that Friday morning. Phone records and witness statements given in court proved beyond doubt that Morris was not in Mandy’s home that morning. This totally destroyed Morris’s alibi and hence his explanation as to how his chain was found at the murder scene.

"On June 28 2002, Morris was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. Morris then won an appeal based on a conflict of interest only, no new evidence being presented at this hearing.

"The re-trial took place at Newport Crown Court. During this time, we again had to look at Morris and listen to lie after lie. Again, Morris was found guilty. Sitting through both trials and having to listen to what our family went through that night was heart-breaking beyond belief.

"In October last year, a BBC documentary was aired in which Morris’s family and supporters called for an independent review and further forensic testing of various items, including the sock which was found at the scene and which had clearly been used by the killer. Also, this programme contained misleading information which has fuelled further irrelevant questions by the public, an example of which is the statement that Mandy’s body was taken to the bathroom and washed. This is utter nonsense and never happened.

"Scientific testing has come a long way in the last 22 years and on October 18 the police confirmed there was scientific evidence of David Morris on the sock; sadly Morris’s family and supporters are refusing to accept these latest findings done by an independent forensic laboratory, which is what they called for.

"We now feel that it is time that they accept that Morris murdered our family and finally let them rest in peace."
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 02:40:28 PM
Until such time Dennis Eady recognises he was wrong over killer Simon Halls case/campaign/confession (https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2021/12/19/wrongful-convictions-miscarriages-of-justice-innocence-fraud-whats-the-difference/) it unlikely he’ll ever be able to recognise his quite obvious errors and clear bias in other cases

But I don’t suppose Bambers campaign team members recognise this either

To think this moron, Dennis Eady (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8), was once on a panel alongside Michael Naughton and others giving ‘evidence’ for a 2015 ‘justice committee’

Here ⬇️

Mark Newby, Mike Naughton, Dennis Eady & Glyn Maddocks, Carolyn Hoyle, Carole McCartney and Josephine Hodgson giving evidence at the justice committee 13th Jan 2015

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 23, 2021, 03:38:18 PM
If anyone is interested

NGB1066 recently made claim on the Bamber forum, psychopathic killer Simon Hall had ‘mental health issues’

Killer Simon Halls ‘mental health issues’ appear to have been manufactured, similar to the Julie Mugford theory manufactured by lawyers she was a ‘scorned women’

These male lawyers had access to all the case files and they would have been aware of (Or at least should have been) where Anji and Virginia Greaves fitted into the story and of the statement made by the girl from the Chequers public house, for example

Worth noting: it was pointed out Julie Mugford was controlled by Bamber during his trial

Bamber was said to excerpt a great deal of control over her - the exact words used were a ‘powerful influence’

And it was this ‘powerful influence’ which was also said to have stopped Julie from coming forward to testify against him sooner than she did

And contrary to some of the nonsense alluded to on the blue forum, Julie made it clear she would not allow Bamber physically near her following the murders

Meaning she would not have been able to confirm whether or not he was hiding bruises on his body following the fight with his father, although it is possible someone else saw any marks he may have had on his body
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 25, 2022, 03:49:11 PM
This is how Jane Metcalfe is choosing to attempt to link the ‘Horizon post office scandal’ to Robin Garbutt’s case

Hanksoff03
@hanksoff03
One of the 2 planks of the prosecution case against http://RobinGarbutt.com was he had been stealing cash from their Post Office.PO evidence used at trial against Rob did huge damage. Like victims here, the Melsonby PO computerised records also had shown prolonged cash shortfalls

https://mobile.twitter.com/hanksoff03/status/1269990454885564418

Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ (Part 1)
👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 25, 2022, 10:04:03 PM
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ (Part 1)
👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/

Seema Misra’s Innocence Fraud Part 2 ~ dropping soon..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 26, 2022, 01:53:15 AM
Seema Misra’s Innocence Fraud Part 2 ~ dropping soon..

Day 1 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2198/2133

Day 2 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2199/2134

Day 3 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2200/2135

Day 4 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2201/2136

Day 5 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2202/2137

Day 6 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2203/2138

Day 7 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2204/2139

Day 8 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2205/2140

Day 9 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2206/2141

Sentence https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2207/2142
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 29, 2022, 08:39:43 PM
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ (Part 1)
👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/

Part 2 of ‘Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’

👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/29/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-2/

Part 3 dropping shortly
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 30, 2022, 12:36:20 AM
Part 2 of ‘Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’

👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/29/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-2/

Part 3 dropping shortly

Part 3 of ‘Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’

👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/29/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-3/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 30, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Part 3 of ‘Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’

👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/29/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-3/

Part 4

👇

https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 30, 2022, 06:30:44 PM
Part 4

👇

https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on June 30, 2022, 07:49:50 PM
Part 4

👇

https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/

Part 5 of Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’

 👇

https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-5/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 02, 2022, 12:26:57 AM
Part 5 of Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’

 👇

https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-5/

Part 6 of Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’

 👇

https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/07/01/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-6/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 03, 2022, 09:46:43 AM
Part 7 to follow shortly

⬇️
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 10:14:31 AM
Part 7 to follow shortly

⬇️
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/

Part 7
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/07/03/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-7/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 01:05:31 PM
Part 7
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/07/03/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-7/

Nick Wallis ~ ‘the human lie detector’ dropping in Part 8
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 01:19:36 PM
Day 1 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2198/2133

Day 2 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2199/2134

Day 3 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2200/2135

Day 4 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2201/2136

Day 5 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2202/2137

Day 6 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2203/2138

Day 7 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2204/2139

Day 8 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2205/2140

Day 9 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2206/2141

Sentence https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2207/2142

Seems Misra’s convictions were referred to the court of appeal by the criminal cases review commission and overturned on a technicality

The technicality being her legal team were not made aware of a bug which apparently affected the post office’s computer system called ‘horizon’.

The bug in question became known about apparently a few days before Seema Misra’s October 2010 trial, although this bug did not affect Seema Misra’s post office in West Byfleet or any post office branches until 2010.

Seema Misra had been suspended by the post office in January 2008

The West Byfleet post office was audited on the 14th January 2008. In a handwritten note, passed to the auditors, Seema Misra stated her ex employees (one of whom she claimed was ‘an illegal’ immigrant) were responsible for the £89,000,00 worth of missing money

The audit found a shortfall of just under £75k

Seema Misra had sacked the ex employees in 2006

Seema Misra, and her husband Davinder Misra, purchased their large shop in West Byfleet, which came with a post office, in early 2005. Seema Misra became sub-postmistress for the West Byfleet post office branch in June 2005.

Around three months after this, the post office was closed for several days due to a flood 

The cause of the flood is not yet known, nor is it yet known what, if nay damage was caused by the flood.

It is also not known if Seema and Davinder had insurance

Prior to the January 2008 audit, Seema Misra was in the process of paying the post office back over £20k, after monies from the lottery, tickets of which were sold in the Misra’s shop, weren’t paid into the post office

Apparently the day before Seema Misra’s trial was supposed to start she went on the Internet and found an online article in computer weekly, where a handful of other post office workers were making the claim they had been wrongly convicted

As a result of this Seema Misra was able to have her trial adjourned until the following year

Up until this point, Seema Misra was still blaming her exployees for the theft

Seema Misra pleaded guilty to 6 charges of false accounting and was found guilty, following a jury trial, regarding the theft (Which she still blamed on her employees) and was imprisoned for around four months

Around a week after Seema Misra was found guilty and sent to prison, Davinder Misra contacted hornswoggler Nick Wallis at Surrey radio

Seema Misra’s case and campaign have all the hallmarks of the ‘innocence’ fraud phenomenon, also committed by numerous other convicted criminals, including mass murderers like Jeremy Bamber

More here

👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 01:50:48 PM
Seems Misra’s convictions were referred to the court of appeal by the criminal cases review commission and overturned on a technicality

More here

👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/

The court of appeal do not posses the powers to determine factual innocence yet an inquiry led by Wyn Williams appears to have ignored this fact, and has bizarrely proceeded on the basis ex sub-postmasters, like Seema Misra, are actually, factually innocent - the evidence, when looked at in its entirety, shows otherwise
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 01:54:48 PM
The court of appeal do not posses the powers to determine factual innocence yet an inquiry led by Wyn Williams appears to have ignored this fact, and has bizarrely proceeded on the basis ex sub-postmasters, like Seema Misra, are actually, factually innocent - the evidence, when looked at in its entirety, shows otherwise

Paul Marshall, who ended up representing Seema Misra, and was almost had up on contempt of court charges, has recently made supplementary submissions, to the post office IT inquiry 

Richard Moorhead from Exeter university,  has recently blogged on this
👇
https://richardmoorhead.substack.com/p/compensation-questions-fraud

Richard Moorhead and Rebecca Helm have also made submissions to the post office IT inquiry on behalf of Exeter uni’s ‘evidence based justice Lab’

In 2012 Rebecca Helm published an article with John Blume making the absurd claim the three child killers of 8 yr-olds Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore were factually innocent

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2103787

Richard Moorhead sounds very much like Michael Naughton

https://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/homepage/title_885427_en.html

The propaganda in relation to the ‘post office horizon scandal’ has seemingly duped many people not aware of the ‘innocence’ fraud phenomenon
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 02:14:18 PM
The propaganda in relation to the ‘post office horizon scandal’ has seemingly duped many people not aware of the ‘innocence’ fraud phenomenon

Surprised by the traffic to this blog series

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 03:05:46 PM
Paul Marshall, who ended up representing Seema Misra, and was almost had up on contempt of court charges, has recently made supplementary submissions, to the post office IT inquiry 

Richard Moorhead from Exeter university,  has recently blogged on this
👇
https://richardmoorhead.substack.com/p/compensation-questions-fraud


Paul Marshall’s Paragraph 110: here https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-06/Paul%20Marshall%20SUPPLEMENTAL%20Submissions%20on%20Compensation.pdf

Mrs Misra was repeatedly criticised at her trial for not being able to point to problems with the Horizon system. The truth was that she was wholly unable to do so in the absence of the Post Office providing relevant disclosure, which it did not do. (That exposes a fundamental flaw in the Law Commission’s 1997 recommendation11 to parliament that rebuttal of the legal presumption of the reliability of computers should be a straightforward matter.)
111. Mr Clarke concluded that “no meani


The undisclosed bug did not affect Seema Misra’s branch or any branches until 2010
 
Seema Misra made 135 telephone calls in total to the helpline number from the day she opened the West Byfleet post office , until the day she was suspended in January 2008

Only 3 or 4 of these calls were linked to monies - in Feb 2006
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 04:11:09 PM
Paul Marshall’s Paragraph 110: here https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-06/Paul%20Marshall%20SUPPLEMENTAL%20Submissions%20on%20Compensation.pdf

Mrs Misra was repeatedly criticised at her trial for not being able to point to problems with the Horizon system. The truth was that she was wholly unable to do so in the absence of the Post Office providing relevant disclosure, which it did not do. (That exposes a fundamental flaw in the Law Commission’s 1997 recommendation11 to parliament that rebuttal of the legal presumption of the reliability of computers should be a straightforward matter.)
111. Mr Clarke concluded that “no meani


The undisclosed bug did not affect Seema Misra’s branch or any branches until 2010
 
Seema Misra made 135 telephone calls in total to the helpline number from the day she opened the West Byfleet post office , until the day she was suspended in January 2008

Only 3 or 4 of these calls were linked to monies - in Feb 2006

Seema Misra during her October 2010 trial for theft

from page 27 here  ➡️ https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2203/2138
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 04:17:14 PM
Nick Wallis ~ ‘the human lie detector’ dropping in Part 8
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/

Hornswoggler Nick Wallis claims;

It is the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. Hundreds of innocent people prosecuted, ruined, often imprisoned – their lives destroyed.

More on some of Nick Wallis’s deceptive tactics - dropping soon
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 04:25:00 PM
Paul Marshall’s Paragraph 110: here https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-06/Paul%20Marshall%20SUPPLEMENTAL%20Submissions%20on%20Compensation.pdf


At para 37 from the above link Paul Marshall quotes from Dawn Walker’s killers fishing expedition in the judgement of Nunn (Kevin) verses the CC of Suffolk police on disclosure

37: Information about the Receipts and Payments mismatch bug in both the Second Sight Interim Report of July 2013 and in the Clarke Advice of 15 July 2013 was disclosable under principles identified by the Supreme Court in R. (on the Application of Nunn) v Chief Constable of Suffolk Police [2015] AC 225. The known effects of the bug, identified and discussed between the Post Office and Fujitsu in September 2010, contradicted and were wholly inconsistent with the way in which the Crown’s case at Mrs Misra’s trial was put.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 04:34:34 PM
Court of appeal judges do not posses the power to deem an appellant ‘factually innocent’ and the three judges in Seema Misra et al’s appeal appear to have made a fundamental error in their judgement on Seema Misra


https://wordpress.com/post/theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/8627
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 04:53:17 PM
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis claims;

It is the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. Hundreds of innocent people prosecuted, ruined, often imprisoned – their lives destroyed.

More on some of Nick Wallis’s deceptive tactics - dropping soon

And although hornswoggler Nick Wallis or his book didn’t appear to make it clear until recently - it has now become clear Nick Wallis ‘co wrote’ the book with A N Other or it was ghost written

(See https://reportingdeppvheard.net/about/)

Nick Wallis appears to be one of those ‘investigative’ journalists who doesn’t investigate

One example being his cancelled tattooist ‘friend’ Watsun Atkinson (Who Nick Wallis claimed to have swapped phone numbers with) who he met in Virginia in the USofA

Watsun can be heard here (from around 2:00) https://reportingdeppvheard.net/youtube/

Watsun appears to be a sexual predator

Watsun referred to his sexual assault victims as ‘uptight’ and said they were ‘not used to real men’

Watson Atkinson
👇
https://valleyadvocate.com/2018/05/03/following-alleged-assault-tattoo-parlor-looks-done-differently/

https://valleyadvocate.com/2018/05/02/off-map-tattoo-facing-public-backlash-alleged-shop-sexual-assault/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 05:40:14 PM
Nick Wallis ~ ‘the human lie detector’ dropping in Part 8
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/

Seema Misra claimed her husband Davinder (Aka Dave aka Kumar Davinder Misra) became an alcoholic whilst she was in prison - where she served 4 months

Seema Misra recently told the post office IT inquiry Davinder would leave their son (Age 10) home alone whilst he drove his taxi through the night

More on Davinder Misra and him wishing he ’could take a gun and shoot everybody there’

to follow soon..
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 05:57:31 PM
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis claims;

It is the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. Hundreds of innocent people prosecuted, ruined, often imprisoned – their lives destroyed.

More on some of Nick Wallis’s deceptive tactics - dropping soon

Nick Wallis won’t tell you about Beryl Keats, the Suffolk secretary of the National Federation of Sub-Postmasters, warning

‘Businessmen and women running struggling post offices - particularly in rural areas - could be tempted to dip their fingers into the till..’

And Nick Wallis won’t tell you about Kevin Howells, who similarly to Seema Misra wasn’t paying his lottery ticket money into the post office

👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 06:01:50 PM
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis claims;

It is the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. Hundreds of innocent people prosecuted, ruined, often imprisoned – their lives destroyed.

More on some of Nick Wallis’s deceptive tactics - dropping soon

Nick Wallis also won’t tell you about the September 2009 flood at the West Byfleet post office which left Seema Misra having to close her branch for several days

Nick Wallis also omits Nadia, Jared, Ali, Sarah and Tamiko - all key witnesses - and a whole lot more

The grift of this fraud is phenomenal
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on July 04, 2022, 06:13:38 PM
Nick Wallis also won’t tell you about the September 2009 flood at the West Byfleet post office which left Seema Misra having to close her branch for several days

Nick Wallis also omits Nadia, Jared, Ali, Sarah and Tamiko - all key witnesses - and a whole lot more

The grift of this fraud is phenomenal

Ron Warmington ‘a fraud investigator’ (cough) and Ian Henderson of second sight were initially taken on by the post office to carry out an ‘independent’ investigation. Second sight were sacked by the post office in 2015 but have stayed with it ever since

Ron Warrington claimed the ‘..post office has improperly enriched itself’ which I strongly suggest were his projections

https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/12/second-sights-ron-warmington-breaks-his.html

Ian Henderson can be heard here https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/12/second-sights-ron-warmington-breaks-his.html
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 07, 2022, 10:01:48 PM
Ron Warmington ‘a fraud investigator’ (cough) and Ian Henderson of second sight were initially taken on by the post office to carry out an ‘independent’ investigation. Second sight were sacked by the post office in 2015 but have stayed with it ever since

Ron Warrington claimed the ‘..post office has improperly enriched itself’ which I strongly suggest were his projections

https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/12/second-sights-ron-warmington-breaks-his.html

Ian Henderson can be heard here https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/12/second-sights-ron-warmington-breaks-his.html

There’s been another story in the times on con woman and fraudster Seema Misra

The authors have made the claim that things started going wrong for embezzler Seema not long after she started running the West Byfleet post office.

What the authors don’t tell their readers is the fact Seema’s West Byfleet post office was closed in September 2005 following a flood

More on the flood
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/

#InnocenceFraud promoter Nick Wallis omits to mention the flood in his book along with omitting any details about Madia and Javed - their names are not mentioned once by Nick Wallis

But Seema Misra claimed she caught ‘illegals’ Nadia and Javed ‘red handed’ many times stealing £89k !?



Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 08, 2022, 10:37:26 AM
But Seema Misra claimed she caught ‘illegals’ Nadia and Javed ‘red handed’ many times stealing £89k !?


No Evidence Of Theft If You Ignore The Actual Evidence Of Theft
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 09, 2022, 02:04:21 PM


No Evidence Of Theft If You Ignore The Actual Evidence Of Theft
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/

Part 8 of Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ ~
‘Nick Wallis The Human Lie Detector’ dropping soon
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 09, 2022, 04:57:43 PM
Part 8 of Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ ~
‘Nick Wallis The Human Lie Detector’ dropping soon
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/

The innocence fraud of embezzler Seema Misra & hornswoggler Nick Wallis’s ‘great post office scandal’ is comparable to the case/campaign of wife killer Robin Garbutt

See Neil Wilby’s blog series on killer Robin Garbutt and his enablers, which also includes a reference to Nick Wallis

👇
https://neilwilby.com/2020/06/22/dr-truthseeker-loses-her-moral-compass/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 09, 2022, 08:20:40 PM
Worth a listen

🔻200th Anniversary of the Roberta Glass True Crime Podcast🔻

👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtYtKAIJ-E&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 10, 2022, 08:26:24 PM
The innocence fraud of embezzler Seema Misra & hornswoggler Nick Wallis’s ‘great post office scandal’ is comparable to the case/campaign of wife killer Robin Garbutt

See Neil Wilby’s blog series on killer Robin Garbutt and his enablers, which also includes a reference to Nick Wallis

👇
https://neilwilby.com/2020/06/22/dr-truthseeker-loses-her-moral-compass/

‘Hack Nick Wallis and Innocence Fraud’

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 12, 2022, 05:53:42 PM
‘Hack Nick Wallis and Innocence Fraud’

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/

Part 8 ~ Nick Wallis The Human Lie Detector

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/12/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-8/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 13, 2022, 03:15:44 PM
Part 8 ~ Nick Wallis The Human Lie Detector

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/12/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-8/

Part 9 ~ Murderer & MP’s Jump On Nick Wallis’s ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ Bandwagon

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/13/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-9/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 15, 2022, 01:38:52 PM
Part 9 ~ Murderer & MP’s Jump On Nick Wallis’s ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ Bandwagon

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/13/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-9/

Part 10 ~ Nick Wallis Subterfuge & Clandestine Devices

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/14/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-10/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on August 21, 2022, 05:07:18 PM
Sadistic psychopath Luke Mitchell’s innocence fraud

Part 1
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/19/warped-minded-abuser-con-artist-scott-forbes-his-lies/

Part 2
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/20/warped-minded-abuser-gaslighter-con-artist-hypocrite-scott-forbes-his-blatant-lies-part-2/

Part 3
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/21/warped-minded-abuser-gaslighter-con-artist-hypocrite-scott-forbes-his-blatant-lies-part-3/

Part 4
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/21/warped-minded-abuser-gaslighter-con-artist-hypocrite-scott-forbes-his-blatant-lies-part-4/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on October 17, 2022, 10:28:58 AM
Bill Robertson Part 1

Campaigning for the release of Jeremy Bamber: Why has it been so difficult to free an innocent man?

In this article, Bill Robertson reflects critically on his experiences of working with Jeremy Bamber's campaign team. He concludes that the inherent caution and secrecy of the campaign has not only failed to pressure the CCRC to refer his conviction back to the court of Appeal but, also, that it may have contributed to him spending longer in prison than needed.

I am writing this article not because I feel that I have been a particularly effective supporter of Jeremy Bamber. Considerably more people have contributed to a greater extent than I have. Yet, I feel that there is some value in me describing my experience of trying to assist the Jeremy Bamber Innocent Campaign Team (CT) and maybe some lessons to be learned for the benefit of other victims of miscarriages of justice.

We need to recognize that the CT are not employees; everyone gives their labours freely and a number of people spend vast amounts of time on the case. A common motive is a belief that Jeremy Bamber’s conviction for five murders is outrageous given the lack of credible evidence that he carried out the crimes. Because everyone involved is a volunteer it may seem churlish to criticize individuals involved in the CT. My motive is not to level personal criticism for the sake of it; it is to identify how the Campaign could have been more effective than it has been in achieving the release of Jeremy Bamber from custody.

Ironically, given that the CT have for many years vilified Essex Police for non-disclosure of documentation, the culture of the CT is non-disclosure. The overriding principle of the JBI CT is SECRECY and CONTROL. This is seemingly driven by an oft repeated objective of “not upsetting the CCRC”. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) apparently has imposed restrictions on what the CT can reveal about the new evidence uncovered forming the basis of the ongoing submission to the CCRC. It is significant that the Campaign Team fear upsetting the CCRC given that the CCRC is supposed to represent the last hope for innocent people to clear their name. Being controlled by the CCRC is clearly part of the ‘contract’ when making a submission to the CCRC. This is why recent CCRC Watch articles have produced a hostile response from the JBI Campaign Team, or to be more accurate, from Yvonne Hartley who appears to be the spokesperson now for all matters pertaining to the campaign. The articles are: Is the CCRC implicated in 36 years of deception in the case of Jeremy Bamber?; and, Jeremy Bamber and the CCRC's deference to the flawed pathology evidence of Dr Peter Vanezis.

Of course, it would be naïve to think that the CT can release information without impacting on the decision-making process at the CCRC. However convincing the submission documentation may be, the decision on whether to refer the case to the Court of Appeal for a second time will be made by three CCRC Commissioners who may feel that they do not want the general public to be informed of what evidence they have considered, especially if they decide not to refer the case. When Bamber’s previous CCRC submission failed in 2012, the CCRC Statement of Reasons was not disclosed by the CT and remains ‘secret’. Having read the 112-page rejection document I am baffled as to why the CT consider it to be confidential, but nevertheless it remains undisclosed.

By seemingly agreeing to not release information while the current submission is being considered the CT have in effect agreed to be ‘muzzled’. The submission was made in March 2021 and apart from a vague outline of the eight grounds covered by the submission no further information has been forthcoming despite a promise by the CT that more detail would be released. There has been talk of new forensic reports being made available, but nothing has been seen to date. The muzzling of the CT has the effect of allowing the CCRC to get away with outrageous practices, such as the Case Review Manager Andrew Timney, who was allocated to review the submissions and is leaving the CCRC, to not make any substantive progress in reviewing the submissions since October 2021. i.e., eight months of inactivity on the submission without any obvious CCRC management objection.[1]

Like many people in Essex, I took an interest in the five deaths that occurred at White House Farm on 7 August 1985. Jeremy Bamber was accused of killing his family, but I felt that there was virtually no evidence that he had done so. Nevertheless, he was convicted in October 1986. Like most people I then forgot about the case until he started to appeal his conviction, still insisting that he was innocent. Information suggesting that he was innocent continued to feature in news articles sporadically. However, his 2002 appeal failed and then it was 2005, twenty years after the killings and Jeremy continued to plead his innocence. I thought that was unusual; most killers give in and confess before that kind of time elapses. 2010 came and still he claimed doggedly that he was innocent. I decided to start researching the case.

The internet had spawned a couple of websites that contained some witness statements. I read the witness statement of Police Sergeant Christopher Bews, one of three officers who attended from Witham police station, first to arrive at the farmhouse. I was baffled by what he said. I read his two colleagues witness statements and became even more puzzled. It didn’t make any sense; they were supposed to be attending a domestic dispute at a farmhouse but parked the police car 300 yards distant and failed to approach close enough to see whether the argument that had been reported had been resolved. They behaved like they were frightened, but they supposedly had no reason to be because they had no idea what was happening inside the farmhouse. I read more witness statements by police officers but none of them made any sense in the context of what was supposedly happening at White House Farm.

Before the police arrived at the farmhouse they seemed to be preparing for a siege, but they purportedly had no information that a gun had been fired, or that there was a hostage situation. I then discovered that before PS Bews had made a situation report from WHF, a police unit had been told to collect firearms in preparation for a ‘siege’. The issuing of firearms in those days was rare and required far more evidence of danger to life than what the police appeared to have. The fact was that by 04:04 that morning, armed police were being organized to attend WHF, before any police officers had even knocked on the door or looked through a window. It seemed to me that the police had not disclosed the full story and were evasive in what they had disclosed. By 2011 my research convinced me that there was something remiss about the police reporting of the case; they were covering something up – in my view, that someone from inside the farm had told the police what was happening, but according to the police everyone was dead.

In 1995 a court case, Taylor v Anderton resulted in an important decision that was to greatly assist Jeremy 10 years later. The ruling was to ensure that one party does not enjoy an unfair advantage or suffer an unfair disadvantage in litigation because of a document not being produced for inspection. This meant that in 2005 Jeremy’s lawyers were able to secure the release of case documentation previously not disclosed, though Essex Police took a further six years to release the documentation. In 2011 it was possible to start analysing around 375,000 pages of evidence previously not available, providing I could gain access to the materials.

After becoming frustrated by the lack of evidence accessible on the internet, about ten years ago I volunteered to undertake some research on the case after contacting Jeremy’s Campaign. I had noticed some police documentation that had been forged and I reported this to Jeremy’s Campaign Team. I was contacted by Sarah Hanover who told me that my discoveries about the forged police documentation would be included in Jeremy’s next CCRC submission. I sent some further research analysis to Sarah Hanover regarding the timing of police responses, and the phone calls made by Nevill and Jeremy Bamber.

One of his then Campaign Team, Yvonne Hartley commented to me around 2013 that she was confident that Jeremy would be released “very soon”. Here we are nearly ten years later, and he is still in prison, almost 40 years of unjustifiable loss of liberty with no imminent end in sight. I came to realise over the years that excessive optimism and perhaps exaggerated belief in good things happening was part of the campaigning ethos.

My first investigation for the Campaign was on the forged message log police documentation that was submitted during the 1998 City of London Police enquiry. I had discovered that records had been forged, presumably so as to make it impossible to undertake ESDA testing[2] of the original police records during the City of London police probe in 1998. This further convinced me that the police had been manipulating evidence about the timing of telephone calls. Why else would records be forged?

After a while I was asked by Sarah Hanover if I would be interested in writing a book about the case. She referred to it as being a ‘Bamber Bible’, with the intention of setting the record straight on every aspect of evidence. It was made clear that there would be no fee, no royalties and all proceeds would go towards supporting the Campaign. I responded positively and we started to map out how a book could be constructed. I wrote some of the introductory material circa 2013. Sarah then introduced me to Yvonne Hartley and suggested that to speed up the production of the book we could work together on it. As a result, various chapters were allocated to each of us, and we started to collaborate. The collaboration went well, and we soon had several draft chapters. My records indicate that the draft chapters were written between 2014 and 2016.

During 2016 while working on a chapter about the events of the morning when the bodies were discovered I was informed by the Campaign Team that they had a set of high-definition crime scene photographs, but I would need Jeremy’s permission to view them. Apparently, having obtained the photos, nobody at the JBI CT was willing to examine them as they showed in graphic detail the dead bodies. I offered to analyse the pictures, as I was convinced that they would be revealing. Permission was not swift in coming. Jeremy is very wary about who can view photographs of his dead family. However, after about a six-month delay while negotiations took place,

I was given three pictures of Sheila Caffell as taken by DC David Bird on the morning the tragedy was discovered. I was later given three harrowing photographs of June Bamber and a further postmortem autopsy picture of Sheila.

I purchased some photo enhancement software for around £50 and started to examine the pictures. I was aware that the pathologist, Dr Peter Vanezis, had said that Sheila had suffered no injuries other than the two bullet wounds to her neck, but I was intrigued by what appeared to be wounds on the back of her right hand. After magnifying the images and applying various filters to clean up the pictures I saw a definite wound at the base of her index (trigger) finger. Further image enhancement revealed that there were in fact two straight edges at the corner of the wound, what appeared to be a cut from a mechanical object. I wondered if this might be part of the rifle mechanism and indeed it was. Also revealed was an obvious fingernail shaped gouge below the index finger, with blue bruising along the periphery of the wound and several scrapes and scratches nearby. It became apparent that someone had grasped Sheila’s right hand and inflicted wounds as they presumably tried to prise her fingers off the trigger mechanism.

I then looked at the four blobs on Sheila’s lower right arm where there were trails of blood. What I discovered was astonishing; there were cuts adjacent to the four blobs. These were not trails of blood from her neck wound as Vanezis had stated, but separate cuts. Four in total – presumably inflicted by four fingernails. I continued looking and initially counted 28 wounds to Sheila not described by Vanezis. The evidence was inescapable, someone with sharp fingernails had fought with Sheila. Jeremy had blunt fingernails, but June Bamber did have fingernails capable of inflicting damage, especially in a life and death struggle.

I examined the picture of June Bamber and immediately saw a large cut on her chin. I searched Vanezis’ witness statement and his court testimony but found no mention of it. I then saw four streams of blood on June’s neck and deduced that Sheila had grasped June by the neck with her left hand, inflicting the cut to the chin with her thumbnail and the other four grazes with her four fingernails. Lower down on the neck I discovered another series of gouged injuries that look exactly like someone grasped June’s neck with long fingernails.

The back of June’s left hand was covered in cuts and grazes also. There had clearly been a desperate fight between the two women, ended when Sheila shot June multiple times. I was stunned; I examined an image of Nevill’s arm, there was another fingernail gouge and further cuts. There were at least 70 wounds to the three adults. But why did Vanezis make no mention of any of these wounds? I wrote and asked him but received no reply. The CT decided quite sensibly that independent forensic expertise was required to confirm the existence of the wounds to the adults. In response to the campaign asking for donations, I donated a total of around £3k over a period of time to assist.

Thus, my journey into the labyrinth of the case began. It was 2016 when these crime scene images were analysed. I find it hard to believe that in 2022 the shocking evidence of the 70 wounds to the adults has still not been revealed and Jeremy Bamber remains in prison. This is entirely due to the CT policy of non-disclosure and secrecy. There is no reason why the discovery of the wounds to the adults and the fundamental differences that makes to the case against Jeremy Bamber could not have been referred immediately to the CCRC. It is hard to see what benefit has been derived from waiting five years before confronting the CCRC with such a powerful rebuttal of the prosecution case.

We jointly discovered a large number of significant items of evidence while writing the book. Among some of the things discovered, I found the references to a suicide note left by Sheila Caffell which had been discussed by DS Stan Jones of Essex Police. I also discovered the extensive wounds to the three adults not disclosed by Dr. Peter Vanezis. I discovered one of Sheila’s earrings snagged on her nightdress which had never been listed as an exhibit. We both found the evidence related to the forensic processing of more than one silencer, and Yvonne found references to the blood from David or Pamela Boutflour discovered inside a silencer. Yvonne found evidence of a 999-call made from inside the farmhouse at 06:09, hours after everyone was supposedly dead. Yvonne discovered conclusive evidence of the telephone call at 03:36 by Jeremy Bamber, which effectively proved his alibi. The discoveries just kept emerging during the book writing process. None of these discoveries were disclosed at the time they were found, and some have only emerged this year, five years after they were first identified. As I said earlier, the culture of non-disclosure and secrecy was powerful.

My experience throughout the book-writing project was that I was being denied access to information. I had been engaged to write a book and I had spent thousands of hours in research and writing over the four years or so that Yvonne and I worked on the book, but I was constantly having to ask for access to documentation. Yvonne had all of the documentation but decided what she would allow me to see, and I clearly wasn’t being shown everything. It became normal for me to discover that information that would assist me in my research was being withheld. It felt like Yvonne wanted to control everything and there was an air of secrecy about much that was going on. I assumed that we all shared the same objective – to see Jeremy Bamber released from prison, but now I realise that I was probably not on the same wavelength as the Campaign Team. I started to wonder if some people were campaigning for the sake of campaigning and some of their publicity-seeking stunts during the Trudy Benjamin era struck me as embarrassing, however, I just kept to the research.

The book revisions were completed circa 2018. By then Sarah Hanover had disappeared from the Campaign Team and my only contact with the CT was Yvonne Hartley. I was fully expecting a book to be released and that the contents would result in Jeremy Bamber being freed from prison, such was the impact of the revelations to be outlined. But nothing tangible happened. By that time, it was being mooted that Jeremy would submit a further submission to the CCRC, having been rebuffed in 2012. I started to hear from Yvonne that lawyers were suggesting keeping everything that we had discovered confidential. I was very frustrated because I did not think that secrecy was going to result in Jeremy being released. I tried to persuade Yvonne that we had to release a book, even if it made no money for Jeremy and was just available on the internet, my view was that the evidence of his innocence had to become public knowledge. When the book was finished, I argued strongly for publication, with no success. It is my view that only journalism will free Jeremy, in the same way that without consistent pressure from the media, the Birmingham Six, Guildford Four and many others would never have gained their freedom. It was journalists who brought about the public pressure for the release of the Irish prisoners. There is no public clamour for the release of Jeremy Bamber because the overwhelming majority have been brainwashed by crappy books full of factual errors and risible TV dramatisations into thinking he is guilty.

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on October 17, 2022, 10:35:23 AM
Bill Robertson Part 2

Over time I formed the view that Yvonne is a very caring person and has been extremely dedicated to the Bamber campaign, but I think is misguided in trusting that the ‘secrecy’ approach will work. For example, about seven years ago, she said to me that a successful submission to the CCRC was “imminent”, but it wasn’t made until 2021. There does seem to be a culture of caution and concealment around everything involving JBI CT. It feels to me that Yvonne and others on the campaign have morphed into becoming ‘professional’ campaigners and lost sight of the objective of gaining Jeremy’s freedom. They now follow the instructions of lawyers to the letter and campaign because it is what they do with their lives – and unfortunately it has been pretty much totally ineffective. To me, that is a harsh but inescapable conclusion of what I have seen and experienced over the past ten years.
By 2017, there was no outright declaration that there would be no book at all. I then felt for years that I was being fobbed off. There would always be a new excuse for not proceeding immediately and numerous requests for patience. I was then told that a publisher had been found and the book would be in two volumes; later I was told it would be three volumes. Then about two years ago I was told there wouldn’t be a book, but there would be a Netflix documentary (where is it?). Since then, the CT have released many podcasts that have slowly revealed most of the information that I was told was too confidential to release as a book, including the numerous wounds not mentioned by Vanezis.

Eventually, I realised that our well-researched book on the case was never going to be published. I felt demoralized and informed Yvonne that I was no longer going to be involved in the Campaign. We parted on good terms, with Yvonne promising to keep me informed with progress. Unfortunately, this has not happened! I didn’t stop trying to get Jeremy’s freedom. During 2017, I wrote to the Chief Constable of Essex Police and enclosed copies of my discoveries regarding the undisclosed wounds to the adult victims. Over a period of months, I corresponded with DCI Stuart Smith of Essex Police, Alison Saunders at the Crown Prosecution Service, the Home Office, Her Majesty’s Inspector of Constabularies and the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for Essex. Zoë Billingham at HMIC did not respond at all, no acknowledgement whatsoever. After a delay of almost three months the Essex PCC eventually responded on 9 June 2017:

“The PCC is unable to become involved in operational policing matters and so is unable to assist you in relation to the matters you have raised”.

The Chief Constable of Essex Police, Stephen Kavanagh, did not reply either. However, he passed my bundle of documentation to Detective Chief Inspector 621 Stuart Smith of Kent and Essex Serious Crime Directorate. Smith turned out to be a bizarre character who didn’t even know that the White House Farm incident occurred in 1985, not 1984, or that Jeremy Bamber had only had one Court of Appeal hearing, not two. Smith also told me that he could not see any wound in the image below.

In the picture below a large cut to June Bamber’s chin is shown. This cut, about 1.5cm long was most likely caused by the left thumbnail of Sheila Caffell as she pushed June away while June, who had already been shot several times, was bravely trying to disarm her. Sheila inflicted four other wounds to June’s throat, wrongly dismissed as just smears of blood by Vanezis.

DCI Smith has said that he cannot see any cuts, gouges, scratches or any other kind of wound in photographs provided to him:

“The images that you include are of very low quality... There is absolutely no way that any person could reasonably say that the marks and blood trails that you depict are injuries”.

Is your eyesight better than DCI Smith’s? Can you see the cut to the chin (on left, approximate to actual size)?

My ad-hoc individual efforts to get someone in authority to take notice of the new evidence failed. Over a period of months, I discovered how well-practiced organisations were in passing the buck and fobbing off the public! None more so than Essex Police, who can’t afford to pay for DCI Smith to go to Specsavers.

My experience has been that the CT were happy to take money from me to pay for various projects, such as forensic reports of the wounds that had been uncovered. They were happy for me to spend thousands of hours researching and writing and kept stringing me along with promises that never materialised.

Since 2020 I have tried to get Yvonne to engage in discussion about what information should be released to the public. Invariably, she doesn’t reply to emails. I emailed her to say that I had found further wounds to Sheila Caffell, bringing the total to 35 but she didn’t reply. On 11 June this year I emailed her, “Hi Yvonne, given the latest delay by CCRC, I wondered if releasing the report on Vanezis might help to create pressure for the CCRC to prioritize JB’s case. If the public was aware of the wounds, it would surely generate media demands for the case to be referred immediately? I did not receive a reply.

The CT submitted a submission to the CCRC in March 2021, some six years after I was first told that a submission was “imminent”. Fifteen months later, it appears to be making no progress. I took the view after the latest revelation from Yvonne that the allocated CCRC Case Review Manager was leaving and had in effect done no analysis work on the submission for the past 8 months as an indication that the CCRC were not taking the submission seriously. Thus, I felt that the only way that there would be pressure on the CCRC to resolve the submission favourably to Jeremy was to reveal the misrepresentations told by Vanezis. Thus, I wrote a short article for CCRC Watch, which infuriated Yvonne. I was careful to only use photographs that are already in the public domain. Because Yvonne shuns all of the Bamber internet discussion forums, she is ignorant of what information is already in the public domain on forums that discuss the case.

Much of what Yvonne regards as ‘confidential’ has been known about for many years due to a ‘security breach’. In 2011, solicitors who had been acting for Jeremy were contacted by Lorna Lake, one of Jeremy’s campaigners and he told her that a campaigner friend of Jeremy’s named Lee (not associated with the Official Campaign) had turned up in a van and taken all the case documents at some time around 2008 or 2009. The solicitor said that there had been rows and rows and rows of A4 lever arch files all down the walls of his offices – all were gone. Ewen Smith's records for the 12 years he worked as Jeremy's solicitor were ‘acquired’ by Michael Teskowitz. Teskowitz then refused to send any of it to Jeremy and unscrupulously put police crime scene photographs of the dead family on the Internet, despite Jeremy's protestations. Thus, a great deal of what the JBI CT regard as confidential information has been in the public domain for a long time.

It is my view that the CT tactics of ‘secrecy’ have failed. If we had published the ‘Bamber Bible’ book there would have been no scope for the two highly misleading TV series that were broadcast to Jeremy’s detriment in 2020 and 2021. There would probably have been no thoroughly inaccurate book by the journalist Carol Ann Lee, which one of the TV series was based upon. The past three years have seen very damaging and highly misleading information being given to the public and the CT have just kept banging on about ‘disclosure’ without saying exactly what it is they want disclosed.

The CT keep presenting abstract legalistic concepts to the public and expect them to clamour for justice for Jeremy. It is not working. The CT seem to have developed a podcast craze, now endlessly releasing podcasts that feature Yvonne saying “we know Jeremy is innocent” without ever saying why or revealing any evidence, and only a few people are listening to the podcasts. Many people interested in the case ridicule Yvonne for this, and it is very annoying for her to keep saying “we know” but refusing to divulge what is known. With the JBI CT it is always a case of “wait” and people well-disposed to Jeremy have lost patience with waiting.

It is significant that despite a great volume of evidence that Jeremy is innocent, not a single MP is fighting his cause, and that is because there has been to date no evidence in the public domain for an MP to highlight. An MP would need something tangible to debate in parliament, such as the wounds not mentioned by Vanezis. All they have at present is complaints about non-disclosure by Essex Police which, it appears, nobody is interested in.

Thus, my hopes for the release of Jeremy Bamber which were so strong in 2015 have been unrealised to date. In my view, had we published the book, Jeremy would have been freed by 2017. I am no longer confident that he will be released if the CT adhere to their current strategy. I hope that I am wrong on that and that the CCRC surprise everyone and refer the case to the Court of Appeal. And, a final thought. If Jeremy Bamber is released nobody will have done more to bring that about than Yvonne Hartley who is an amazing researcher and tenacious advocate for Jeremy. I just wish that she had published what was, and still is, an exceptionally good book on the case.

As a final thought, it is known that the CCRC regard all applicants as guilty (see https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/your-application-to-the-commission-begins-with-a-presumption-of-guilt-not-innocence), which only further strengthens the need to promote any and all evidence that obliterates the notion that Jeremy Bamber is guilty with the utmost vigour via every available avenue and every possible media. The JBI CT have, in reality, done the opposite of this with their insistence on secrecy. I believe that they must go public with everything they have that demonstrates Jeremy Bamber’s innocence without further delay.

References
[1] Jeremy Bamber Campaign Official Web Site (jeremy-bamber.co.uk) Latest news.
[2] ESDA (electro-static document analysis) testing process.

Bill Robertson has researched alleged miscarriages of justice for around 20 years and advised on several cases, including contributing 7 years investigative research in support of the most recent application to the CCRC by Jeremy Bamber. He serves as Deputy Editor of CCRC Watch.

https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/campaigning-for-the-release-of-jeremy-bamber-why-has-it-been-so-difficult-to-free-an-innocent-man

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on October 18, 2022, 10:50:13 PM
Hae Min Lee’s killers murder conviction magically disappears (Adnan Syed)

 LIVE in 5 (minutes or so)
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7kfaOP5bsGI&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on October 21, 2022, 09:41:16 PM
Bamber gets a mention in this podcast
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGzKwUlZsMo
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 06, 2022, 07:04:22 AM
The latest bunkum...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11394829/Tory-MP-demands-urgent-review-1986-conviction-murderer-Jeremy-Bamber.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11394829/Tory-MP-demands-urgent-review-1986-conviction-murderer-Jeremy-Bamber.html)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 06, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
Bamber gets a mention in this podcast
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGzKwUlZsMo

Why Doesn’t Innocence Fraud Pusher Michael Naughton Of Bristol University Use The Case Of ‘Wrongly Convicted’ Actually, Factually Guilty Killer Simon Hall (A Case Which Also Demonstrates A ‘Breach Of The Carriage Of Justice) To Prove His Point? - Part 19p

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/11/06/why-doesnt-michael-numpty-naughton-of-bristol-university-use-the-case-of-wrongly-convicted-actually-factually-guilty-killer-simon-hall-a-case-which-also/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 07, 2022, 10:13:44 AM
29th October 2022

Trudi Benjamin ‘effectively running a campaign’

https://twitter.com/UaInjustice/status/1585177071349026817



BEHIND THE HEADLINES
“It seems everyone has an opinion, especially those armchair ‘experts’ who state with absolute certainty a person’s guilt or innocence, never having seen a single paper in the case their information gained from lurid and wildly inaccurate newspaper headlines and gossip and their opinions formed by their own personal prejudices and agenda. Trolls, poison pen’ journalists’ and pseudo academics undermine and attack cases hiding behind claims that they are helping miscarriages of justice cases. Others exploit those desperate for justice, vulnerable people are conned out of money, exploited by those who claim to have all the answers when they have none, it sometimes seems that those who shout the loudest have nothing to say.
It is most often a long and lonely path fighting injustice when ,suddenly out of the blue it seems ,new information comes to light, but this is often a result of many years work behind the scenes.
If you want to know the truth behind the headlines if you want to hear from those intimately involved in these cases, then you must attend the United Against Injustice Conference Saturday 29 October 2022
https://www.unitedagainstinjustice.com/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on November 09, 2022, 11:05:56 PM
29th October 2022

Trudi Benjamin ‘effectively running a campaign’

https://twitter.com/UaInjustice/status/1585177071349026817


I can't believe I missed that, Trudi is an expert on successfully campaigning. Whether it's baking murder cakes or tasteful graveside readings, she knows how to avoid ridicule!

Mind you, Yvonne Hartley has released a million repetitive and unlistenable podcasts that reach an audience of dozens so it's hard to say who is the best campaigner, I wonder if Jezza has a favourite?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 11, 2022, 06:37:42 PM
29th October 2022

Trudi Benjamin ‘effectively running a campaign’

https://twitter.com/UaInjustice/status/1585177071349026817

I can't believe I missed that, Trudi is an expert on successfully campaigning. Whether it's baking murder cakes or tasteful graveside readings, she knows how to avoid ridicule!

Mind you, Yvonne Hartley has released a million repetitive and unlistenable podcasts that reach an audience of dozens so it's hard to say who is the best campaigner, I wonder if Jezza has a favourite?

Alongside that fraud John Curtis from the CCRC
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/11/10/the-fraud-of-the-criminal-cases-review-commission-ccrc-part-20%ef%b8%8f/


Allan Jamieson
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/05/quite-a-hall-tale-part-17e%EF%B8%8F/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 19, 2022, 07:54:05 AM
Ellie's Aunt Sally is back on the beat... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992pWDxlJqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992pWDxlJqw)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 22, 2022, 07:15:35 AM
Ellie's Aunt Sally is back on the beat... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992pWDxlJqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992pWDxlJqw)
Episode 1 has landed... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYRNlHqjOaA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYRNlHqjOaA)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 27, 2022, 06:12:12 AM
Let the clutching at ever-decreasing straws continue...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 27, 2022, 06:34:15 AM
Let the clutching at ever-decreasing straws continue...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html)
Philip Boyce is the same person who used a cut-down version of an Anschutz 525 in a MWT TV prog. to demonstrate that the burn marks on NB's back could have been the product of a hot end of its muzzle.   So much for like-for-like scientific accuracy!...

https://youtu.be/_i2CjYDJGTo?t=995 (https://youtu.be/_i2CjYDJGTo?t=995)

Comparison of the two Anschutz 525 models...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on November 27, 2022, 09:35:12 AM
Let the clutching at ever-decreasing straws continue...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html)

Errr what? Is Boyce now disavowing his own scientific pig skin blowtorch experiment?

But the tests led Mr Boyce to conclude that the body was left lying against an Aga after the shooting and its handles caused the burns.

So, the police moved NB from the aga and decided to balance him on an upturned chair with his pants pulled down, just for kicks probably.. Or was it a satanic ritual ordered by their masters at the lodge? Or did Sheila help them do it before officer Firstday accidentally shot her twice in the throat while the theme from Benny Hill played?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 28, 2022, 11:46:09 AM
Scraping the bottom of the AGA for more baloney... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7h2F3MYHUw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7h2F3MYHUw)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 28, 2022, 12:05:07 PM
The handle and locking catch on the ash-pit door are not even in the same plane and there is no proof that they would have been hot enough on the actual WHF AGA during the night of 7th. August '85 anyway (attached)...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 28, 2022, 02:46:55 PM
Errr what? Is Boyce now disavowing his own scientific pig skin blowtorch experiment?

But the tests led Mr Boyce to conclude that the body was left lying against an Aga after the shooting and its handles caused the burns.

So, the police moved NB from the aga and decided to balance him on an upturned chair with his pants pulled down, just for kicks probably.. Or was it a satanic ritual ordered by their masters at the lodge? Or did Sheila help them do it before officer Firstday accidentally shot her twice in the throat while the theme from Benny Hill played?

Another innocence fraud phenomenon tactic

Modern standards of fairness, and a change in expert opinion..”

“On 22 July 1990, Baldev Hoondle was shot and killed during the course of a robbery at his off licence in East London. A witness recalled seeing two men, one of whom was wearing a distinctive “British Knights” baseball cap, fleeing the scene. Oliver Campbell, who had recently purchased such a cap, was arrested by the police and interviewed 14 times. Whilst in police custody, he made admissions inside and outside of police interview as to his involvement in Mr Hoondle’s murder. 

The jury at Mr Campbell’s trial knew that he had learning disabilities with impaired memory and reasoning skills; however, an expert report concluded that he was not abnormally suggestible. During its review, the CCRC approached that same expert and invited him to re-consider his assessment of Mr Campbell. The expert concluded that he had not properly understood Mr Campbell’s vulnerabilities at the time of trial or appeal.

https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/modern-standards-of-fairness-and-a-change-in-expert-opinion-form-basis-of-the-oliver-campbell-referral-to-the-court-of-appeal/

Two experts agreed convicted killer Oliver Campbell wasn’t ‘abnormally suggestible’

Gisli Guðjónsson name comes up time & time again in many cases of the very real innocence fraud phenomenon (both in the UK and the US)

How would this ‘second expert’ know how Campbells suggestibility was in the 90’s compared to now?

Excerpt from previous CCRC statement of reasons
👇

50. “The court noted that Ms Tunstall had agreed with the assessment of Dr Gudjonsson (now professor Gudjonsson) that Mr Campbell was not abnormally suggestible and too the view that her opinion was:

tentative in the extreme and was no more than the defence counsel had suggested to the jury. This evidence would not have affected the jury’s verdict.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 29, 2022, 03:56:45 PM
Innocence fraud gravy train jumper Matt Harris

”If you seen the dramas and documentaries then forget everything you’ve heard and think you know. This is going to be shown as the worst miscarriage of justice in English history.

https://matt.film/jeremy-bamber-news-documentary/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 29, 2022, 04:37:47 PM
Innocence fraud gravy train jumper Matt Harris

”If you seen the dramas and documentaries then forget everything you’ve heard and think you know. This is going to be shown as the worst miscarriage of justice in English history.

https://matt.film/jeremy-bamber-news-documentary/ (https://matt.film/jeremy-bamber-news-documentary/)
Bigging himself up and full of hot air!  Why the hell was it shown on German TV when the case has nothing to do with them whatsoever?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 29, 2022, 04:41:14 PM
Episode 2 of the poorly researched Williams-Thomas series... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QykSQaYmGno (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QykSQaYmGno)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 29, 2022, 05:56:45 PM
Errr what? Is Boyce now disavowing his own scientific pig skin blowtorch experiment?

But the tests led Mr Boyce to conclude that the body was left lying against an Aga after the shooting and its handles caused the burns.

So, the police moved NB from the aga and decided to balance him on an upturned chair with his pants pulled down, just for kicks probably.. Or was it a satanic ritual ordered by their masters at the lodge? Or did Sheila help them do it before officer Firstday accidentally shot her twice in the throat while the theme from Benny Hill played?

The so called ‘expert’ (Werner Spitz) in the WM3 case blamed turtles for the injuries to Stevie Branch, Michael Moore and  Chris Byers and also suggested dogs caused the injuries

As opposed to the psychopathic killers
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 29, 2022, 06:49:30 PM
Bigging himself up and full of hot air!  Why the hell was it shown on German TV when the case has nothing to do with them whatsoever?
The CCRC or CoA are not going to be easily fooled by Boyce's pigskin BS and Nevill Bamber lying on his right side with his back up against the AGA either. There would be no reason for Essex Police to move and balance NB's body precariously on the back of a wooden chair with his head in a coal scuttle onto which he bled out. Besides, the last four bullets that killed him were fired from above into the top and right side of his head whilst in that position, as noted by Peter Vanezis, who also stated that livor mortis/hypostasis was consistent with the position in which he was found, and so must have set in several hours before the TFU broke into the farmhouse...

(https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=672;image)
(https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=722;image)
(https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=724;image)
(https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=19229;image)

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 29, 2022, 06:52:19 PM
Bigging himself up and full of hot air!  Why the hell was it shown on German TV when the case has nothing to do with them whatsoever?

Matt Harris ~
Working closely with Jeremy's campaign team and Jeremy himself, we’ve uncovered and documented new evidence which categorically proves the conviction is unsafe

This new evidence has been submitted to the CCRC and we are now at the stage of waiting for a referral to the Court of Appeal.”


Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 29, 2022, 07:04:20 PM
Matt Harris ~
Working closely with Jeremy's campaign team and Jeremy himself, we’ve uncovered and documented new evidence which categorically proves the conviction is unsafe

This new evidence has been submitted to the CCRC and we are now at the stage of waiting for a referral to the Court of Appeal.”

It will never be referred... the CCRC know all too well when they're being conned.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 29, 2022, 07:41:11 PM
It will never be referred... the CCRC know all too well when they're being conned.

It could well be referred

The CCRC are a fraudulent organisation who work for guilty killers, rapists, terrorists and other types of convicted criminals

Many people who work for the CCRC are as deceitful as some of the characters who’s convictions they ‘review’

The CCRC have spent many years (and a lot of money) on this dangerous psychopath, and have already referred his convictions to the COA in the past.

The CCRC was set up on the back of mass murderers similar to Jeremy Bamber - these types of killers are their bread and butter

If the CCRC can find something to pass their idea of the ‘real possibility test’, they will refer his convictions
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on November 29, 2022, 07:53:50 PM
It could well be referred

The CCRC are a fraudulent organisation who work for guilty killers, rapists, terrorists and other types of convicted criminals

Many people who work for the CCRC are as deceitful as some of the characters who’s convictions they ‘review’

The CCRC have spent many years (and a lot of money) on this dangerous psychopath, and have already referred his convictions to the COA in the past.

And the CCRC was set up on the back of mass murderers like Jeremy Bamber - these types of killers are their bread and butter

If the CCRC can find something to pass their idea of the ‘real possibility test’, they will refer his convictions
They were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...

https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/ (https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 30, 2022, 01:29:22 AM
They were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...

https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/ (https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/)

They knocked him back but I wouldn’t call it ‘spot on’

Following a comprehensive review,

What were the other two ‘reviews’?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 30, 2022, 01:34:02 AM
They were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...

https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/ (https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/)

And this

Much of Mr Garbutt’s application to the CCRC focused on the Post Office Horizon scandal, which has led to a number of fraud and theft convictions of former Post Office workers being overturned, many after referral by the CCRC

If you ‘review’ embezzler and fraudster Seema Misra trial transcripts, her Horizon IT system (at her West Byfleet post office) was not affected by any alleged bugs but the frauds at the CCRC referred her murder conviction to the court of appeal anyway http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/the-horizon-postofficescandal-innocence-fraud-gravy-train-scam-hornswoggler-nick-wallis-embezzler-seema-misra/

This fraudster (Seema Misra) who claimed she caught “illegals” Nadia and Javed ‘RED HANDED’ stealing £89,000.00 from her post office has gone on to push for the arrest and imprisonment of a witness who gave evidence against her on behalf of Fujitsu

Gareth Jenkins - read all the trial transcripts

Embezzler and fraudster Seema Misra jumped on the bandwagon of a handful of other sub-postmistresses and sub-postmasters who had claimed there was something wrong with the Horizon IT system - as opposed to them thieving from their post offices

Fraudster Seema claimed she went online the night before her trial began and found an article about these others former post officer workers by Rebecca Thomson

It was at this point Seema Misra suggested computer problems were responsible for her (and I strongly suspect her husband) embezzlement/thefts
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on November 30, 2022, 01:49:17 AM
They were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...

https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/ (https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/)

Much of Mr Garbutt’s application to the CCRC focused on the Post Office Horizon scandal, which has led to a number of fraud and theft convictions of former Post Office workers being overturned, many after referral by the CCRC

“The CCRC decided that this argument could not assist Mr Garbutt, as figures from the Horizon system were not essential to his conviction for murder”


 *&^^&
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 08, 2022, 06:11:48 PM
Episode 3 of MWT's much-flawed series here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5r2HisymfQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5r2HisymfQ)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 13, 2022, 07:30:21 AM
Got a strong feeling of déjà vu when reading this...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11526827/Son-attacked-parents-sent-boarding-school-1980s.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11526827/Son-attacked-parents-sent-boarding-school-1980s.html)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on December 22, 2022, 04:45:01 PM
And this

Much of Mr Garbutt’s application to the CCRC focused on the Post Office Horizon scandal, which has led to a number of fraud and theft convictions of former Post Office workers being overturned, many after referral by the CCRC

If you ‘review’ embezzler and fraudster Seema Misra trial transcripts, her Horizon IT system (at her West Byfleet post office) was not affected by any alleged bugs but the frauds at the CCRC referred her murder conviction to the court of appeal anyway http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/the-horizon-postofficescandal-innocence-fraud-gravy-train-scam-hornswoggler-nick-wallis-embezzler-seema-misra/

This fraudster (Seema Misra) who claimed she caught “illegals” Nadia and Javed ‘RED HANDED’ stealing £89,000.00 from her post office has gone on to push for the arrest and imprisonment of a witness who gave evidence against her on behalf of Fujitsu

Gareth Jenkins - read all the trial transcripts

Embezzler and fraudster Seema Misra jumped on the bandwagon of a handful of other sub-postmistresses and sub-postmasters who had claimed there was something wrong with the Horizon IT system - as opposed to them thieving from their post offices

Fraudster Seema claimed she went online the night before her trial began and found an article about these others former post officer workers by Rebecca Thomson

It was at this point Seema Misra suggested computer problems were responsible for her (and I strongly suspect her husband) embezzlement/thefts

Edward Henry represents embezzler and innocence fraudster Seema Misra

Edward Henry
Perhaps the most insidious consequence of wrongful conviction is the dissolution of the victim’s human spirit. Their debasement and betrayal by the Criminal Justice System destroys their dignity, character & livelihood. Is it any wonder that hundreds of them, over some 20 years of painful injustice, give up? So many lost everything - including hope. Some took their own lives, others fell into an abyss of depression. Those who survived must no longer remain powerless and ashamed. Give back that shame to the Post Office where it always belonged. # #CCRC #PostOfficeScandal #PostOfficeHorizonITInquiry
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:share:7011408928181735424
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on January 09, 2023, 08:34:48 AM
"Charles Bronson" on Jeremy Bamber.

Caution: profanities undeleted ... https://youtu.be/zQp85Llqc6g?t=470 (https://youtu.be/zQp85Llqc6g?t=470)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Common sense on February 14, 2023, 11:03:24 AM
Well that was too much information Myster.

I know the thread topic has been comprehensively settled but I came across this exchange the other day:

https://twitter.com/PoppyMeze/status/1624377152815726593?s=20&t=DSZiQVdGjH7l1S1NGsuGJA

Poppy Ann Miller
@PoppyMeze
Replying to
@ClarkeMicah
The risk is M.O.J.
Eg.#JeremyBamber Innocent yet framed & still locked up after 37years.
His girlfriend, Julie Mugford lied in court, later moved to Canada, married, became a Christian, subsequently confessed to her husband, Glen Smerchanski, who then divorced her.
11:57 AM · Feb 11, 2023

Margo ⭐️
@lostsoul9111
·
Feb 11
Replying to
@PoppyMeze
 and
@ClarkeMicah
What a load of rubbish.😂 She’s not divorced & there are quotes from her husband in the press from as recent as 2020/1 stating she told the truth & did the right thing in going to the police.

Poppy Ann Miller
@PoppyMeze
·
Feb 12
Replying to
@lostsoul9111
 and
@ClarkeMicah
Oh really?
I do not intend to get into a lengthy discussion with you; just to say I have numerous handwritten Essex Police logs showing that Sheila was alive in the house & they were in communication with her whilst JB was standing outside with them.


I was instantly reminded of this other breathtakingly made up passage that Bill Robertson dared to put his name to recently:

https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/jeremy-bamber-case-why-has-he-ccrc-failed-to-consider-the-dickinson-review-for-27-years

One of the most contentious issues about the case, which has persisted for 37 years, is whether the police received a telephone call from Nevill Bamber at 03:26 advising the police that his daughter Sheila Caffell had got hold of one of his guns. The police say that the phone call to Chelmsford Police Station at around 03:26 was made by Jeremy Bamber, not Nevill, and that Jeremy Bamber was impersonating his father. The police also say that there was no second phone call at 03:36.


Have these people fallen down their own rabbit holes or are they fundamentally dishonest souls intent on deceiving others as well as themselves?

Once again, I vote that Bamber fans are a harmful hindrance.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 15, 2023, 09:59:21 AM
Have these people fallen down their own rabbit holes or are they fundamentally dishonest souls intent on deceiving others as well as themselves?

They are ‘fundamentally dishonest’

Only in SL's case - she’s doesn’t tweet out all her bare faces lies
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on March 21, 2023, 07:50:17 AM
Another former lag's view of Jeremy Bamber... https://youtu.be/l32yqrycRB4?t=281 (https://youtu.be/l32yqrycRB4?t=281)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 06, 2023, 08:14:08 PM
"Happy Easter"... said with as little sincerity as he can muster and deluded as ever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uroverqayv8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uroverqayv8)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on April 19, 2023, 02:47:46 AM
What’s Our Obsession With True Crime? (Dupers Delight/££££££)

Today’s world sees us bombarded from every angle with increasingly shocking content – but what is it that leads so many of us to relish the portrayal of real-life horror from the comfort of our living rooms?
Serial killers, criminals and kidnappers – think Peter Sutcliffe, Jeremy Bamber and even Karen Matthews – have all been the subject of on-screen dramas, as unspeakable acts become spectacles on our screens.
This panel will explore our nation’s morbid curiosity, asking why our collective fascination with true crime productions is driving ratings sky high. Is it the subversive conduct and motivations of extreme characters? Is it the failure of the police investigations? Should storytelling be more focused on the victims, or is there a line to be drawn?

https://leedsinternationalfestival.com/panel/whats-our-obsession-with-true-crime/

Who’s on the panel = Mark Williams Thomas -  Louise Shorter,

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2023, 08:06:09 AM
£10 a throw to listen to money for old rope ?!!!   I'll give it a miss, Thanks.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 30, 2023, 02:08:20 PM
£10 a throw to listen to money for old rope ?!!!   I'll give it a miss, Thanks.

Seen Richard McCann talk before and he's worth more than a tenner but MWT should be paying the audience!!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 30, 2023, 03:06:40 PM
Seen Richard McCann talk before and he's worth more than a tenner but MWT should be paying the audience!!
And Gemma Whelan on how she felt portraying Essex firebrand sleuth "Miss Marple"!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 13, 2023, 11:03:11 AM
I was instantly reminded of this other breathtakingly made up passage that Bill Robertson dared to put his name to recently:

https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/jeremy-bamber-case-why-has-he-ccrc-failed-to-consider-the-dickinson-review-for-27-years

Bill Robertson ~ CCRC Chairman Helen Pitcher blusters and embellishes over the case of Andy Malkinson
👇
https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/ccrc-chairman-helen-pitcher-blusters-and-embellishes-over-the-case-of-andy-malkinson

Bill Roberton mentioned in Part 1 below 👇

Are Helen Pitcher & The Criminal Cases Review Commission Using Their ‘Special Powers’ To Act Outside Of The Existing UK Criminal Justice System & Attempting To Frame An Innocent Man For Andrew Malkinson’s Rape In The Process? (Part 1)

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/11/are-helen-pitcher-the-criminal-cases-review-commission-using-their-special-powers-to-act-outside-of-the-existing-uk-criminal-justice-system-attempting-to-frame-an-innocen/

Part 2 - Convicted Rapist & Passport Fraudster Andrew Malkinson Described As A Sexual Predator & A Danger To Women
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/11/convicted-rapist-passport-fraudster-andrew-malkinson-described-as-a-sexual-predator-a-danger-to-women-part-2/

Part 3 - The Morphing Of Rapist & Passport Fraudster Andrew Malkinson’s Story - Beginning With The Claim His Rape “Never Happened” To Naming Someone Else
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/12/the-morphing-of-rapist-passport-fraudster-andrew-malkinsons-story-beginning-with-the-claim-his-rape-never-happened-to-backtracking-that-someone-else-did-it-part-3/

Part 4 - Has An Innocent Man Been Wrongly & Prematurely Arrested For ‘Oddball’ Andrew Malkinson’s Crimes - His Victim Was “More Than 100% Certain” Malkinson Was Her Attacker & Said She Told Him Whilst He Strangled Her She Would “Never Forget His Face” 
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/12/has-an-innocent-man-been-wrongly-prematurely-arrested-for-oddball-andrew-malkinsons-crimes-his-victim-was-more-than-100-certain-malkinson-was-her-a/

Part 5 - Violent Rapist & Passport Fraudster Andrew Malkinson Complained Of Contaminated DNA Samples In 2006 & Goes From Claiming His Victim Made Up Attack & Rape To Now Saying “Catch The Real Rapist”
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/13/violent-rapist-passport-fraudster-andrew-malkinson-complained-of-contaminated-dna-samples-in-2006-goes-from-claiming-his-victim-made-up-attack-rape-to-now-saying-catch-the-r/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 14, 2023, 06:29:19 AM
Tinkering around the edges by a clueless watchdog will never make Bamber any less guilty of murdering his family...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12080851/Serial-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-62-thinks-police-watchdog-ruling-released.html#comments (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12080851/Serial-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-62-thinks-police-watchdog-ruling-released.html#comments)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 14, 2023, 09:29:33 PM
Bill Robertson ~ CCRC Chairman Helen Pitcher blusters and embellishes over the case of Andy Malkinson


TIMELINE: The Rebranding Of Dangerous, Deceptive Rapist & Predator Andrew Malkinson, Who Went From Claiming “Mistaken Identity” To Pretending His VICTIM Wasn’t Raped & She Had Made It Up, Counting His Compensation Money, INUK & Emily Bolton
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/14/timeline-the-rebranding-of-dangerous-deceptive-rapist-predator-andrew-malkinson-who-went-from-claiming-mistaken-identity-to-pretending-his-victim-wasnt-raped/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2023, 11:37:52 AM
Part 3 - The Morphing Of Rapist & Passport Fraudster Andrew Malkinson’s Story - Beginning With The Claim His Rape “Never Happened” To Naming Someone Else
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/12/the-morphing-of-rapist-passport-fraudster-andrew-malkinsons-story-beginning-with-the-claim-his-rape-never-happened-to-backtracking-that-someone-else-did-it-part-3/
Re: innocence fraudster Bob Woffinden from the above blog on violent rapist, fraudster & parasitic predator Andrew Malkinson

The Long Silence: The Story of James Hanratty and the A6 Murder by Valerie Storie, the Woman Who Lived to Tell the Tale - Valerie’s Posthumous Autobiography by Paul Stickler
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/the-long-silence-the-story-of-james-hanratty-and-the-a6-murder-by-valerie-storie-the-woman-who-lived-to-tell-the-tale-by-paul-stickler/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2023, 05:43:53 PM
TIMELINE: The Rebranding Of Dangerous, Deceptive Rapist & Predator Andrew Malkinson, Who Went From Claiming “Mistaken Identity” To Pretending His VICTIM Wasn’t Raped & She Had Made It Up, Counting His Compensation Money, INUK & Emily Bolton
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/14/timeline-the-rebranding-of-dangerous-deceptive-rapist-predator-andrew-malkinson-who-went-from-claiming-mistaken-identity-to-pretending-his-victim-wasnt-raped/
The Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Deceptive, Gaslighting Fraudster Andrew Malkinson & How He Went On The Run After Learning His Victim Was Helping Police Compile An E-Fit (Part 6)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/the-violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-deceptive-gaslighting-fraudster-andrew-malkinson-how-he-went-on-the-run-after-learning-his-victim-was-helping-police-compile-an-e-fit-part-8/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2023, 10:12:46 PM
The Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Deceptive, Gaslighting Fraudster Andrew Malkinson & How He Went On The Run After Learning His Victim Was Helping Police Compile An E-Fit (Part 6)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/the-violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-deceptive-gaslighting-fraudster-andrew-malkinson-how-he-went-on-the-run-after-learning-his-victim-was-helping-police-compile-an-e-fit-part-8/

Part 7 What Happened To Violent Rapist, Convicted Fraudster & Parasitic Predator Andrew Malkinson’s Security Guard Clothing, Dark Work Boots & “Stab Proof Vest”
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/what-happened-to-violent-rapist-convicted-fraudster-parasitic-predator-andrew-malkinsons-security-guard-clothing-his-stab-proof-vest-part-7/

Part 8 Did Violent Rapist Andrew Malkinson Make A Subliminal Confession To His Crimes During A TV Interview?
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/did-violent-rapist-andrew-malkinson-make-a-subliminal-confession-to-his-crimes-in-april-2021-part-8/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 15, 2023, 10:19:03 PM
Bill Robertson on violent rapist Andrew Malkinson

Sixthly, there was the clothing. The witnesses were agreed that the man was wearing ‘smart’ black trousers, ‘smart’ black shoes and a ‘very smart’ shirt. Malkinson did not possess, and had never possessed, clothing of that kind.

What did he wear to work Bill?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on May 16, 2023, 08:42:56 AM
Much ado about very little on HMS Wakefield...

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/23524025.essex-police-mishandled-jeremy-bamber-complaint-police-body-rules/ (https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/23524025.essex-police-mishandled-jeremy-bamber-complaint-police-body-rules/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2023, 11:28:23 AM
Bill Robertson on violent rapist Andrew Malkinson

Sixthly, there was the clothing. The witnesses were agreed that the man was wearing ‘smart’ black trousers, ‘smart’ black shoes and a ‘very smart’ shirt. Malkinson did not possess, and had never possessed, clothing of that kind.

What did he wear to work Bill?

*UPDATED*
👇
The Rebranding Of Dangerous, Deceptive Rapist & Predator Andrew Malkinson (AKA Andrew Strugnell), Who Went From Claiming “Mistaken Identity” To Pretending His VICTIM Wasn’t Raped & She Had Made It Up, His Discovery Of His Adoption, Counting His Compensation Money, INUK & Emily Bolton

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/14/timeline-the-rebranding-of-dangerous-deceptive-rapist-predator-andrew-malkinson-who-went-from-claiming-mistaken-identity-to-pretending-his-victim-wasnt-raped/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 16, 2023, 01:29:54 PM
*UPDATED*
👇
What Happened To Violent Rapist, Convicted Fraudster & Parasitic Predator Andrew Malkinson’s Security Guard Clothing, Dark Work Boots & “Stab Proof Vest” & “Jungle Fever” & Those “Small, Bright Red Insect Bites, Similar To Measles” (Part 7)

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/what-happened-to-violent-rapist-convicted-fraudster-parasitic-predator-andrew-malkinsons-security-guard-clothing-his-stab-proof-vest-part-7/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 17, 2023, 08:44:22 AM
More from Bill Robertson
👇
https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/how-long-will-the-jeremy-bamber-campaign-team-remain-in-a-state-of-inertia-and-omerta

@Jane08Metcalfe
@hanksoff03
Absolutely don`t want2offend  JBIC,but from experience,NOT exposing failings of system set up2help the wrongfully convicted aka
@ccrcupdate
,only continues2help that same system!We must politely do all we can2expose failings!+encourage them2 get on board+open their arms2us+help us
8:15 pm · 16 May 2023
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 17, 2023, 12:18:16 PM
Innocence Fraud Watch Contact The Law Commission, Who Announced On 5th August 2022 They Will Be Undertaking A Review Of The Appeals System
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/17/innocence-fraud-watch-contact-the-law-commission-who-announced-on-5th-august-2022-they-will-be-undertaking-a-review-of-the-appeals-system/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 17, 2023, 05:28:33 PM
What Happened To Violent Rapist, Convicted Fraudster & Parasitic Predator Andrew Malkinson’s Security Guard Clothing, Dark Work Boots & “Stab Proof Vest” & “Jungle Fever” & Those “Small, Bright Red Insect Bites, Similar To Measles” (Part 7)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/what-happened-to-violent-rapist-convicted-fraudster-parasitic-predator-andrew-malkinsons-security-guard-clothing-his-stab-proof-vest-part-7/

Did Violent Rapist Andrew Malkinson Make A Subliminal Confession To His Crimes During A TV Interview? (Part 8)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/did-violent-rapist-andrew-malkinson-make-a-subliminal-confession-to-his-crimes-in-april-2021-part-8/

Violent Rapist Andrew Malkinson, How Undated Circumstantial DNA Won’t Prove His ‘Innocence’ & Why Deluded Emily Dugan Won’t Address What Happened To The Clothes & Footwear He Wore When He Worked As A Security Guard At The Ellesmere Shopping Centre (Part 9)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/17/violent-rapist-andrew-malkinson-how-undated-circumstantial-dna-wont-prove-his-innocence-why-the-sex-offender-deluded-emily-dugan-wont-address-what/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 17, 2023, 05:29:44 PM
May 2023: In Discussion With The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) & John Curtis On Candour & Practicing What He Preaches
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/17/may-2023-in-discussion-with-the-criminal-cases-review-commission-ccrc-john-curtis-on-candour-practicing-what-he-preaches/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 18, 2023, 07:05:38 PM
*LIVE* Joe Rogan Simps for Amanda Knox - AGAIN!!!
👇
https://www.youtube.com/live/KifdPiu4A5k?feature=share
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 19, 2023, 12:50:09 AM
Did Violent Rapist Andrew Malkinson Make A Subliminal Confession To His Crimes During A TV Interview? (Part 8)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/did-violent-rapist-andrew-malkinson-make-a-subliminal-confession-to-his-crimes-in-april-2021-part-8/

Violent Rapist Andrew Malkinson, How Undated Circumstantial DNA Won’t Prove His ‘Innocence’ & Why Deluded Emily Dugan Won’t Address What Happened To The Clothes & Footwear He Wore When He Worked As A Security Guard At The Ellesmere Shopping Centre (Part 9)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/17/violent-rapist-andrew-malkinson-how-undated-circumstantial-dna-wont-prove-his-innocence-why-the-sex-offender-deluded-emily-dugan-wont-address-what/

Violent Rapist & Forensically Aware Fraudster Andrew Malkinson’s Deception Knows No Bounds & Why He Wasn’t Proud To Be A STRUGNELL (Part 10)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/18/violent-rapist-forensically-aware-fraudster-andrew-malkinsons-deception-knows-no-bounds-why-he-wasnt-proud-to-be-a-strugnell-part-10/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 19, 2023, 08:59:18 AM
Violent Rapist & Forensically Aware Fraudster Andrew Malkinson’s Deception Knows No Bounds & Why He Wasn’t Proud To Be A STRUGNELL (Part 10)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/18/violent-rapist-forensically-aware-fraudster-andrew-malkinsons-deception-knows-no-bounds-why-he-wasnt-proud-to-be-a-strugnell-part-10/

Bob Woffinden, Emily Dugan & Will Roe’s Version Of Events. Violent Rapist, Fraudster & ‘Holiday Psycho’ Andrew Malkinson’s Version Of Events & The Rebranding Of A Dangerous Sex Offender & How He Continues To Get ‘Caught In The Lie’ & How His Stories Still Don’t Add Up (Part 11)
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/18/bob-woffinden-emily-dugan-will-roes-version-of-events-violent-rapist-fraudster-holiday-psycho-andrew-malkinsons-aka-andrew-strugnell-version-of-eve/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 19, 2023, 04:48:54 PM
Bob Woffinden, Emily Dugan & Will Roe’s Version Of Events. Violent Rapist, Fraudster & ‘Holiday Psycho’ Andrew Malkinson’s Version Of Events & The Rebranding Of A Dangerous Sex Offender & How He Continues To Get ‘Caught In The Lie’ & How His Stories Still Don’t Add Up (Part 11)
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/18/bob-woffinden-emily-dugan-will-roes-version-of-events-violent-rapist-fraudster-holiday-psycho-andrew-malkinsons-aka-andrew-strugnell-version-of-eve/

Hypocrite Neal Keeling & His Memory Verses The Memory Of Violent Rapist & Former Amateur Boxer Andrew Malkinson’s Victim (Part 12)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/19/hypocrite-neal-keeling-his-memory-verses-the-memory-of-violent-rapist-andrew-malkinsons-victim-part-12/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 20, 2023, 09:36:47 AM
Hypocrite Neal Keeling & His Memory Verses The Memory Of Violent Rapist & Former Amateur Boxer Andrew Malkinson’s Victim (Part 12)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/19/hypocrite-neal-keeling-his-memory-verses-the-memory-of-violent-rapist-andrew-malkinsons-victim-part-12/

Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Former Amateur Boxer & ‘Holiday Psycho’ Andrew Malkinson & Clive Stafford-Smith On Emily Dugan (Part 13)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/19/violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-former-amateur-boxer-andrew-malkinson-clive-stafford-smith-on-emily-dugan-part-13/

Monitoring By MAPPA After Seventeen Years & Is Emily Dugan Gaslighting Or Does She Really Not Recognise The Red Flags Re: Violent Rapist & Sex Offender Andrew Malkinson? (Part 14)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/20/monitoring-by-mappa-after-seventeen-years-is-emily-dugan-gaslighting-or-does-she-really-not-recognise-the-red-flags-re-violent-rapist-sex-offender-andrew-malkinson-part-14/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 20, 2023, 03:50:05 PM
Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Former Amateur Boxer & ‘Holiday Psycho’ Andrew Malkinson & Clive Stafford-Smith On Emily Dugan (Part 13)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/19/violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-former-amateur-boxer-andrew-malkinson-clive-stafford-smith-on-emily-dugan-part-13/

Monitoring By MAPPA After Seventeen Years & Is Emily Dugan Gaslighting Or Does She Really Not Recognise The Red Flags Re: Violent Rapist & Sex Offender Andrew Malkinson? (Part 14)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/20/monitoring-by-mappa-after-seventeen-years-is-emily-dugan-gaslighting-or-does-she-really-not-recognise-the-red-flags-re-violent-rapist-sex-offender-andrew-malkinson-part-14/

Violent Sex Offender Andrew Malkinson & His Vicious 2003 Attack & Rape & How Forensic Scientists Warned In 2003 Of Red Herrings Around Undated Circumstantial DNA In Sadistic Killer Luke Mitchell’s Case & Misleading The Appeal Court (Part 15)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/20/violent-sex-offender-andrew-malkinson-his-vicious-2003-attack-rape-how-forensic-scientists-warned-in-2003-of-red-herrings-around-undated-circumstantial-dna-in-sadistic-killer-luke-mi/

The Absurdity Of Emily Bolton On Violent Rapist, Fraudster & Parasitic Predator Andrew Malkinson & Asking Greater Manchester Police To Collude With An Already Convicted & Dangerous Sex Offender (Part 16)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/20/the-absurdity-of-emily-bolton-on-violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-andrew-malkinson-asking-greater-manchester-police-to-collude-with-them-part-16/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on May 24, 2023, 08:20:24 PM
The Fix Is In! Greater Manchester Police & The Crown Prosecution Service Roll Over To The Spin Public Relations Campaign Of Violent Rapist & Sex Offender Andrew Malkinson & His Enablers
👇

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/24/the-fix-is-in-greater-manchester-police-the-crown-prosecution-service-roll-over-to-the-spin-public-relations-campaign-of-violent-rapist-sex-offender-andrew-malkinson-his-enablers/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on September 03, 2023, 06:42:31 PM
I've read some conspiratorial twaddle on blue over the years and thought that might have diminished or even disappeared with the demise of Mike Teskowski... Not a chance!

We have someone claiming that the TFU moved June Bamber's body from the floor to the bed after they'd shot her so that her blood wouldn't stain the carpet, wrapped her in an electric blanket (which he insists is on the floor by the bed) to hasten livor/rigor mortis no less!  LOL!  To complete their devious task they moved her to the doorway and shot her again between the eyes!  Pure fantasy, no less.

That's a floral-pattern duvet+cover (or eiderdown) on the floor not an electric blanket, which is still in the bed, underneath the white, heavily bloodstained sheet/duvet which the Bambers slept directly on top of.  In other words, an electric underblanket which could be switched on to air the bed for a period before getting in, much like this more recent model. Note the similar way the control switch hangs from a cable connected to the blanket...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEBufYObxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEBufYObxk)

https://www.mediafire.com/view/xqh1nnvfbct6ubl/WHF_Electric_Underblanket.png/file# (https://www.mediafire.com/view/xqh1nnvfbct6ubl/WHF_Electric_Underblanket.png/file#)

A thin electric supply cable (1) goes from a plug in the wall/skirting socket directly to the on-off switch/temperature control (2) which is dangling from a slightly thicker cable (3) leading up to the underblanket in bed.  There is NO connection to the duvet on the floor, the first cable (1) is simply curled round and hidden underneath it.

Isn't that so, Caroline?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another with abysmal observational skills makes outrageous claims of numerous invented cuts/bruises on Sheila Caffell's arm which even a novice student pathologist would identify as runs of blood ending in blobs which spurted from her two neck wounds as she was shot, all of which had dried up and cracked by the time her body was discovered.  None of these 'wounds' were identified and noted as such by Peter Vanezis, the pathologist, but then of course it's easy but groundless and ludicrous to accuse him of taking part in a police cover-up and conspiracy.

He then insists that a sharply-angled casing deflector on the rifle caused a similarly-shaped 'wound' on her right hand. Why then juxtapose a photo of the latter with one of an Anschutz 520, which had a differently-shaped deflector and smaller ejection port than the later Anschutz 525 model used in the WHF murders?

This and the rest is just utter fantasy... https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/how-long-will-the-jeremy-bamber-campaign-team-remain-in-a-state-of-inertia-and-omerta (https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/how-long-will-the-jeremy-bamber-campaign-team-remain-in-a-state-of-inertia-and-omerta)

The 525 had a round-edged deflector fixed with two screws in a different position to the 520 and a larger ejection port to reduce the occurrence of stovepipe jams, and couldn't possibly have caused such an angular 'wound' as claimed.

Relevant photos attached...
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on September 03, 2023, 06:48:31 PM
I've read some conspiratorial twaddle on blue over the years and thought that might have diminished or even disappeared with the demise of Mike Teskowski... Not a chance!

We have someone claiming that the TFU moved June Bamber's body from the floor to the bed after they'd shot her so that her blood wouldn't stain the carpet, wrapped her in an electric blanket (which he insists is on the floor by the bed) to hasten livor/rigor mortis no less!  LOL!  To complete their devious task they moved her to the doorway and shot her again between the eyes!  Pure fantasy, no less.

That's a floral-pattern duvet+cover (or eiderdown) on the floor not an electric blanket, which is still in the bed, underneath the white, heavily bloodstained sheet/duvet which the Bambers slept directly on top of.  In other words, an electric underblanket which could be switched on to air the bed for a period before getting in, much like this more recent model. Note the similar way the control switch hangs from a cable connected to the blanket...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEBufYObxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEBufYObxk)

https://www.mediafire.com/view/xqh1nnvfbct6ubl/WHF_Electric_Underblanket.png/file# (https://www.mediafire.com/view/xqh1nnvfbct6ubl/WHF_Electric_Underblanket.png/file#)

A thin electric supply cable (1) goes from a plug in the wall/skirting socket directly to the on-off switch/temperature control (2) which is dangling from a slightly thicker cable (3) leading up to the underblanket in bed.  There is NO connection to the duvet on the floor, the first cable (1) is simply curled round and hidden underneath it.

Isn't that so, Caroline?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another with abysmal observational skills makes outrageous claims of numerous invented cuts/bruises on Sheila Caffell's arm which even a novice student pathologist would identify as runs of blood ending in blobs which spurted from her two neck wounds as she was shot, all of which had dried up and cracked by the time her body was discovered.  None of these 'wounds' were identified and noted as such by Peter Vanezis, the pathologist, but then of course it's easy but groundless and ludicrous to accuse him of taking part in a police cover-up and conspiracy.

He then insists that a sharply-angled casing deflector on the rifle caused a similarly-shaped 'wound' on her right hand.  Why then juxtapose a photo of the latter with one of an Anschutz 520, which had a differently-shaped deflector and smaller ejection port than the later Anschutz 525 model used in the WHF murders?

The 525 had a round-edged deflector fixed with two screws in a different position to the 520 and a larger ejection port to reduce the occurrence of stovepipe jams, and couldn't possible have caused such an angular 'wound' as claimed.

Relevant photos attached...


Not forgetting the burns caused by positioning Nevill against the Aga.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on September 03, 2023, 07:08:05 PM

Not forgetting the burns caused by positioning Nevill against the Aga.
Like you, I've had similar but short term use of an AGA, although more familiar with the poor woman's Rayburn version, both of which were solid fuel/anthracite/phurnacite-powered.  Neither of them had ash-pit door handles/fasteners which would get anywhere near hot enough to cause burns.  The WHF AGA may even have been turned to its lowest gimcrack setting mid-August.

Why did Philip Boyce use an oil-fired AGA set on a 3" brick plinth in his reconstruction, totally unlike the WHF solid-fuel model?  Different heating characteristics altogether...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11477219/Forensic-scientist-reveals-used-PIG-SKIN-test-theory-Jeremy-Bamber-case.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11477219/Forensic-scientist-reveals-used-PIG-SKIN-test-theory-Jeremy-Bamber-case.html)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on September 05, 2023, 06:52:10 PM

Not forgetting the burns caused by positioning Nevill against the Aga.
Just to make things clear, APRIL... I'm 99.9% sure that the Boyce AGA is an older solid-fuel type which has been converted to use domestic oil only, supplied from an external tank.  The giveaway is the black control box and an 8 or 10 mm. diameter oil supply pipe (painted white to match the skirting) on the right-hand side. There's also a fine capillary tube leading to a hidden copper phial within the air intake grill on the left-hand side which will register changes in temperature. This tube will run under the AGA to connect with the control box on the right.  Old solid-fuel AGAs weren't so sophisticated and only had a gimcrack mechanical shutter to adjust air flow and thus temperature using a hand-operated control lever higher up on the left.

First attached photo of the experimental AGA with control box.  A second to show Philip Boyce measuring with "Stanley", the same red toaster, kettle, pine kitchen drawers and Belfast sink on the left.  A third with the alleged burns on pigskin... all I see are a large white lens-shaped indent of the ash-pit handle and a couple of barely visible white marks of the catch (which Boyce had to indicate with black felt-tipped marker), and which, imo, would look nothing like three burns on NB's back.

Also attached is a pdf manual by a company specialising in AGA SF to oil conversions.  Most of it is unimportant to read but the first drawing shows a similar control box to the one above, but on the left side.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on December 20, 2023, 06:11:28 PM
"Justice is on its way, soon be heading to the CoA"... and pigs might fly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7BFZXs5Cg&ab_channel=Officialbambervideo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7BFZXs5Cg&ab_channel=Officialbambervideo) 
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 24, 2024, 06:13:11 AM
More groundless BS from two of Bamber's campaign team...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on February 24, 2024, 10:55:34 AM
All of it originating from JB? Certainly the 6 minutes I managed to listen to, did. Can't vouch for the rest. I gave up. Will go back and listen to what Jo has to say when I've regained my strength!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 24, 2024, 11:41:45 AM
All of it originating from JB? Certainly the 6 minutes I managed to listen to, did. Can't vouch for the rest. I gave up. Will go back and listen to what Jo has to say when I've regained my strength!
Much too brief to cover this case in any depth. Peter Bleksley should have invited Chris Bews and Michael West, instead of a psychologist who I've never heard of, to counter the repetitive old guff from Philip Walker.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on February 24, 2024, 12:07:06 PM
I understand she had something relevant to say about narcissistic behaviours which might be worth listening too, but I doubt it's anything new.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 24, 2024, 12:23:18 PM
I understand she had something relevant to say about narcissistic behaviours which might be worth listening too, but I doubt it's anything new.
Blimey, she's had a makeover!... https://www.johemmings.co.uk/ (https://www.johemmings.co.uk/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 24, 2024, 03:14:55 PM
More groundless BS from two of Bamber's campaign team...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV)

Matt Harris similar to Matt (Matthew) Elliott & his involvement with scammer Sandra Lean
👇🏼
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/12/05/killer-luke-mitchell-matthew-elliott-donna-easton-their-protestations-researchfor-innocence-fraud-pusher-bob-ruff-part-282/
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 24, 2024, 03:17:50 PM
Blimey, she's had a makeover!... https://www.johemmings.co.uk/ (https://www.johemmings.co.uk/)

Who claimed psychopath Jeremy Bamber had a borderline personality disorder?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Nicholas on February 24, 2024, 03:32:39 PM
More groundless BS from two of Bamber's campaign team...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV)

Did you see the way Philip Walker looked at Matt Harris when he referred to the “3:26 call”

Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on February 25, 2024, 07:45:49 AM
Did you see the way Philip Walker looked at Matt Harris when he referred to the “3:26 call”
Can't say I noticed that much of a difference... he's always po-faced.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 09, 2024, 06:43:25 AM
David Hender back after a two year absence, being seduced by yet more of Bamber's chicanery...

https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/)

https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 09, 2024, 12:26:17 PM
David Hender back after a two year absence, being seduced by yet more of Bamber's chicanery...

https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/)

https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/)


Mmm. First prize for pukeworthiness, d'ya think?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 09, 2024, 01:01:49 PM

Mmm. First prize for pukeworthiness, d'ya think?
One of JB's secret, up until now, supporters to the tune of £££££££'s.  Has Hender taken over funding from one-time member Daisy?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: APRIL on April 09, 2024, 04:42:32 PM
One of JB's secret, up until now, supporters to the tune of £££££££'s.  Has Hender taken over funding from one-time member Daisy?


Isn't it amazing how many fall over themselves to give financial support to cults? I supposes that's what JB and his 'cause' have become?
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 11, 2024, 02:48:49 AM
David Hender back after a two year absence, being seduced by yet more of Bamber's chicanery...

https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/)

https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/)

All I have to say is .....
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 11, 2024, 07:28:56 AM
All I have to say is .....
At least his Bamber correspondence isn't for sale (not yet anyway), unlike Nilsen's aluminium pots and pans ingrained with ancient bits of human fat and flesh...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serial-killer-dennis-nilsens-curry-26564381 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serial-killer-dennis-nilsens-curry-26564381)

Someone's made a killing on his Muswell Hill house though - sold for around £490,000 in 2016 , now being converted into a £1.5 million family home...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12072641/Dennis-Nilsens-London-lair-1-48M-family-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12072641/Dennis-Nilsens-London-lair-1-48M-family-home.html)
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 18, 2024, 07:27:16 PM
At least his Bamber correspondence isn't for sale (not yet anyway), unlike Nilsen's aluminium pots and pans ingrained with ancient bits of human fat and flesh...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serial-killer-dennis-nilsens-curry-26564381 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serial-killer-dennis-nilsens-curry-26564381)

Someone's made a killing on his Muswell Hill house though - sold for around £490,000 in 2016 , now being converted into a £1.5 million family home...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12072641/Dennis-Nilsens-London-lair-1-48M-family-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12072641/Dennis-Nilsens-London-lair-1-48M-family-home.html)

I saw that article about Neilson's pans - they aren't even non-stick  @)(++(* -  *%^^&

I would have thought the Muswell Hill dump would have been flattened. Some say the same about WHF. Personally, I couldn't live in either!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 19, 2024, 08:19:43 AM
I saw that article about Neilson's pans - they aren't even non-stick  @)(++(* -  *%^^&

I would have thought the Muswell Hill dump would have been flattened. Some say the same about WHF. Personally, I couldn't live in either!
David Boutflour is on record that he was surprised his sister could live at WHF. But I think he's a more emotional character than hard-as-nails Ann Eaton who wouldn't be afraid of the odd spirit floating around at midnight.
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 19, 2024, 07:39:22 PM
David Boutflour is on record that he was surprised his sister could live at WHF. But I think he's a more emotional character than hard-as-nails Ann Eaton who wouldn't be afraid of the odd spirit floating around at midnight.

Him and me both! Although if walls could speak!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Myster on April 20, 2024, 07:22:47 AM
Him and me both! Although if walls could speak!
Or Crispy's ghost could yap and point his paw at a pic of the culprit!
Title: Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
Post by: Caroline on April 22, 2024, 11:46:24 PM
Or Crispy's ghost could yap and point his paw at a pic of the culprit!

One yap for yes and twice for no!