The problem happens more when specific individuals become prominant.
Trudies weekly vlogs were stopped as they were being laughed at. Bamber broke off contact with Mike & asked him to take down his forum. Again because Mike & other supporters are doing more harm than good & guilters are allowed to post.
Bambergates & Martin Ogram's videos also did no one any favours.
Most supporters on forums refuse to say how Sheila committed the massacre. Which is something that should be simple. Then come up with crazy ideas such as hit man teams, Sheila putting the silencer on & RB shooting himself.
Several dedicated long term supporters have also changed stance on forums. This does not assist Bamber as it shows the prosecution case is so strong.
If I was Bamber, I would want just want the OS up. This looks professional & no one can dispute what is written. Creating Youtube videos is also a good idea providing the comments section is disabled. Bamber & supporters behind the scenes can attempt to get as much media publicity as possible. On radio, TV & newspapers. This is something Bamber & co are good at & will create interest.
While the above is being done, Bamber himself can reply to letters from long term supporters or people just curious. This will generate new support and make the long term supporters even more determined to assist, as there are no counter arguments anywhere. But it's too late. The forums are up.
If by OS you mean the 'Official Site' I find it contains a lot of inaccurate, incorrect, misleading and irrelevant info. I agree with what you say in that the CT don't engage in debate, encourage feedback or even give the impression they're open to the views of others. A very unhealthy situation imo.
Roch is obviously a much kinder and nicer person than I am. Saying he was disappointed in the recent vid but didn't want to appear too critical. If I had my way I would give the lot of them the Alex Ferguson hair dryer treatment 8()(((@# 8)><( @)(++(*
The prosecution case against JB only appears strong as the defence to date has been weak along with general support from the public eg CT, Mike et al.
If by OS you mean the 'Official Site' I find it contains a lot of inaccurate, incorrect, misleading and irrelevant info. I agree with what you say in that the CT don't engage in debate, encourage feedback or even give the impression they're open to the views of others. A very unhealthy situation imo.
Roch is obviously a much kinder and nicer person than I am. Saying he was disappointed in the recent vid but didn't want to appear too critical. If I had my way I would give the lot of them the Alex Ferguson hair dryer treatment 8()(((@# 8)><( @)(++(*
The prosecution case against JB only appears strong as the defence to date has been weak along with general support from the public eg CT, Mike et al.
I have to agree Holly, there is a lot posted on the official site as if it were true established fact when it is merely speculation and wishful thinking.
Totally agree! There is some VERY misleading information on the OS. Take the logs for instance, from the way it is written (although it has been edited fairly recently) - most people think that the log claimed to be 'recently discovered' (although it wasn't), is the log written by Bonnett which mentions 'daughter gone berserk etc.' This log was shown to the jury. It is the West log that carries the 'recently discovered' claim. However, the translation of the claim was/is so poor, that the Daily Mirror reported the story incorrectly and had Bonnett's log as 'recently discovered'. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-missing-police-phone-239793
If by OS you mean the 'Official Site' I find it contains a lot of inaccurate, incorrect, misleading and irrelevant info. I agree with what you say in that the CT don't engage in debate, encourage feedback or even give the impression they're open to the views of others. A very unhealthy situation imo.
Roch is obviously a much kinder and nicer person than I am. Saying he was disappointed in the recent vid but didn't want to appear too critical. If I had my way I would give the lot of them the Alex Ferguson hair dryer treatment 8()(((@# 8)><( @)(++(*
The prosecution case against JB only appears strong as the defence to date has been weak along with general support from the public eg CT, Mike et al.
Roch is a complicated chap. I'd be madly interested in his shiny new evidence, if it was definitive, but unless he proves it he's just going to look like a "supporter" who says "I've got a secret but I'm not sharing, so bum poo willy." Which is par for the course for Bamber lovers. 8(8-))
The vast majority of "supporters" are certainly very destructive. Mike's worked his socks off for years to make Bamber look a total tw@ - then there was Gladys and his manic ravings about brute beasts and hell's cesspits, his weekly reports about his Chalfonts, and pretending to be Gav from the SAS (that still makes me laugh!) - and now to put the shit on the shortbread, there's Ermintrude Thunderthighs, a cross between Miss Babs and Tessie O'Shea, being very lazy and dodgy and turning the whole thing into even more of a complete farce. 8)><(
I suppose it's because Bamber is guilty.
FAO JaneyJ on blue.....I believed that Bamber was innocent for 25 years. There was also a brief moment, many years ago, when I thought that Lenny Henry was funny. We're all allowed to see the error of our ways! 8((()*/
Roch is also a really good bloke, but not when he's Bambering. He's as funny and cool as f*ck, but he hates being wrong.
The problem happens more when specific individuals become prominant.
Trudies weekly vlogs were stopped as they were being laughed at. Bamber broke off contact with Mike & asked him to take down his forum. Again because Mike & other supporters are doing more harm than good & guilters are allowed to post.
Bambergates & Martin Ogram's videos also did no one any favours.
Most supporters on forums refuse to say how Sheila committed the massacre. Which is something that should be simple. Then come up with crazy ideas such as hit man teams, Sheila putting the silencer on & RB shooting himself.
Several dedicated long term supporters have also changed stance on forums. This does not assist Bamber as it shows the prosecution case is so strong.
If I was Bamber, I would want just want the OS up. This looks professional & no one can dispute what is written. Creating Youtube videos is also a good idea providing the comments section is disabled. Bamber & supporters behind the scenes can attempt to get as much media publicity as possible. On radio, TV & newspapers. This is something Bamber & co are good at & it will create interest from the public.
While the above is being done, Bamber himself can reply to letters from long term supporters or new people just curious. This will generate new support and make the long term supporters even more determined to assist, as there are no counter arguments anywhere. But it's too late. The forums are up.
I've noticed the "Blue Forum" mentioned on here as i've been reading through the threads and some of the people on there, would be a hindrance to anyone.
Some of them (Especially this Mike Tesko) just tell blatant lies.
Yet some people hang onto his every word.
It's a like a deranged cult leader and his followers.
I've noticed the "Blue Forum" mentioned on here as i've been reading through the threads and some of the people on there, would be a hindrance to anyone.
Some of them (Especially this Mike Tesko) just tell blatant lies.
Yet some people hang onto his every word.
It's a like a deranged cult leader and his followers.
Samson I'm replying to your post here:
Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485
The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering.
John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by. I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with.
It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread. Personally I prefer the system we have here. Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.
With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:
- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case. I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related. IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case. Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet. Or even a data management system to hand for case docs.
- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989. In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs. I think most will agree he's a crank. His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere.
- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC. They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well. They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs. They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB. Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.
- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT. I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.
- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response. I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised. I will be making a final offer again shortly. His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year! Perhaps a coping mechanism.
- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.
Samson I'm replying to your post here:
Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485
The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering.
John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by. I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with.
It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread. Personally I prefer the system we have here. Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.
With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:
- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case. I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related. IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case. Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet. Or even a data management system to hand for case docs.
- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989. In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs. I think most will agree he's a crank. His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere.
- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC. They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well. They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs. They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB. Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.
- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT. I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.
- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response. I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised. I will be making a final offer again shortly. His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year! Perhaps a coping mechanism.
- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.
- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT. I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.
- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response. I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised. I will be making a final offer again shortly.
- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.
Samson I'm replying to your post here:
Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485
The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering.
John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by. I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with.
It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread. Personally I prefer the system we have here. Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.
With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:
- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case. I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related. IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case. Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet. Or even a data management system to hand for case docs.
- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989. In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs. I think most will agree he's a crank. His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere.
- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC. They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well. They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs. They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB. Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.
- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT. I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.
- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response. I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised. I will be making a final offer again shortly. His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year! Perhaps a coping mechanism.
- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.
Samson I'm replying to your post here:
Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485
The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering.
John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by. I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with.
It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread. Personally I prefer the system we have here. Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.
With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:
- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case. I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related. IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case. Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet. Or even a data management system to hand for case docs.
- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989. In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs. I think most will agree he's a crank. His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere.
- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC. They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well. They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs. They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB. Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.
- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT. I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.
- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response. I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised. I will be making a final offer again shortly. His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year! Perhaps a coping mechanism.
- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.
Supporters generally cause more harm than good.
Bamber asked Mike to close down his forum & Trudie's weekly vlogs were stopped undoubtedly on Bamber's request.
David attempted to become part of Bamber's circle. But his 'Forensic Evidence Breakthrough' was binned & he will be the first to admit he has nothing else.
Bamber did contact Bob Woffinden, Andrew Hunter & agreed to be interviewed by Wilkes & CAL. He may have also contacted Ian Allison. These were MP's, journalists and authors.
He will have regular contact with his lawyers and maybe one or two supporters who organise the OS. It's doubtful he's met the non lawyers. Even Trudie & Mat have just commented that he sounds nice on the phone.
People that write to him, he will write back to attempt to try to ensure support, as he did with David.
Samson I'm replying to your post here:
Dear Holly, I am reading the thread, and arrived at the point where you say you removed several posts. This is most unfortunate. I would like to help Jeremy Bamber, but do not believe this is possible the way this forum is moderated. I realise you are in an invidious position where you disagree with the forum owner, but am perplexed, and would like to see how the removed posts were constructed. Maybe you could pm or email me.
I see Jeremy's position as bleak while these forums bicker, it is essential to have a naked discourse as we had on IA to make progress.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9273.msg453485#msg453485
The edited/removed posts contained nothing other than childish bickering.
John and I disagree on JB's case but that's by the by. I moderate the forum based on John's rules on the homepage which I personally agree with.
It's almost impossible to find anything on the JB thread at IA as it's just one rambling thread. Personally I prefer the system we have here. Everything is largely uncensored here too but I can't see the point of allowing endless posts where posters are simply bickering and there's nothing case related.
With regard to assisting JB I have found him difficult to assist:
- There's nothing in his background that lends itself to grappling with the case. I've exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him of which 95% plus of the content is case related. IMO he doesn't have a good understanding of his case. Perhaps not surprising given he doesn't have access to forensic textbooks or the internet. Or even a data management system to hand for case docs.
- JB met the owner of the Blue forum, Mike Tesko, in prison circa 1989. In many ways MT has been a disaster for JB other than making available the forum/docs. I think most will agree he's a crank. His early influences on JB can be evidenced by the way JB pursues aspects of the case Mike holds dear but they don't have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere.
- Members of his campaign team (CT) appear to have got involved around the time I did which was about 2011/12 when an application was pending a decision from the CCRC. They run a website which contains a lot of misleading, inaccurate and irrelevant info which obviously doesn't bode well. They place a lot of emphasis on aspects that can't assist JB eg passing a lie detector test and the phone logs. They also have some very misguided ideas about publicity for JB eg baking cakes using the late June Bamber's recipes and sending a campaigner/supporter to NB and June's graveside to read a letter from JB. Naturally this only attracted bad publicity reinforcing negative views about JB.
- I believe others with experience and qualifications in law and handling criminal cases have been cold shouldered by the CT. I believe CW offered to assist and experienced similar.
- I sent a letter to JB offering to arrange and fund some forensic tests but no response. I know he received the letter as he addressed other points raised. I will be making a final offer again shortly. His recent blog seems upbeat but that's always the case eg I'll be out by Christmas, shortly, next year! Perhaps a coping mechanism.
- Nearly 33 years incarceration must surely have taken it's toll.
And that's EXACTLY what he does! Thank you Holly! He wont agree to the tests unless he can control what tests are carried ut.
And he's entirely right to do so, in fairness. It's normal that the defence would want complete control of their own tests. If I were Bamber, I would insist on the same or not have the tests done. There is nothing improper in this, and any experts appointed have an overriding duty to the court.
And he's entirely right to do so, in fairness. It's normal that the defence would want complete control of their own tests. If I were Bamber, I would insist on the same or not have the tests done. There is nothing improper in this, and any experts appointed have an overriding duty to the court.
Why? If you have nothing to hide? However, my point wasn't just in relation to forensic tests. Jeremy doesn't answer questions he doesn't like - THAT was my point.
And he's entirely right to do so, in fairness. It's normal that the defence would want complete control of their own tests. If I were Bamber, I would insist on the same or not have the tests done. There is nothing improper in this, and any experts appointed have an overriding duty to the court.
Have you got anything to back up your various assertions above?
As I see it post trial the convicted are pretty much up a creek without a paddle. The appeals process can swing into action as it did for JB in 1989. If this fails thereafter the defendant is dependent on finding others to do his/her bidding. In JB's case he has no family support, income (to speak of) or capital. He's reliant on supporters to assist in a variety of ways eg case research, funding tests, emotional support and experts/lawyers to act pro bono or to be paid by supporters as until such time his case is referred back to CoA his case isn't eligible for any funding.
I read an article recently by Michael Mansfield QC where he said the problem with looking at cases involving a potential MoJ is that it takes a lawyer 6 months to review the case. That's a lot of hours and a lot of dosh!
If programme makers want to instruct their own experts then what are JB's defence going to do about this? We have already seen with the 'Killing Mum and Dad' docu/drama aired by Sky tv that JB lost his legal battle against expert opinion have we not?
Author Roger Wilkes funded some tests on JB's behalf in exchange for JB's input to RW's book. This had nothing to do with JB's defence. The test results were sent to the publishers.
If I want to hand over forensic test results that I may have undertaken in the UK or elsewhere to a programme maker or any media outlet then there's nothing legally preventing me from doing so is there?
As I far as I can see experts have an overriding duty to adhere to their professional code of conduct and thereafter to those instructing them and funding their expertise.
Just an observation but LM's posts on blue appear more reasoned and objebtive on blue, than they were here. Wonder why? Anyone else notice that?
I think perhaps he is playing devil's advocate after all. One thing though, Nevil couldn't have been in front of the door. He ended up in front of the aga which protrudes from the wall to allow for the chimney. It's impossible for him to have been shunted around a corner in order to finish up in the position depicted in the CS photos.
Does he have an appointed firm of solicitors to assist him with another application to the CCRC? If so, that will be why Bamber or those around him don't want to deal with others. For perfectly understandable reasons, his solicitors will not allow him to accept input or expertise from anybody else while they are instructed. If he were to start taking advice from other lawyers or experts appointed otherwise than through his own solicitors, those solicitors might then consider themselves compromised or professionally embarrassed and might ask to terminate their relationship with him.
That's strange, that he would not take up your offer. It could be that he doesn't want you to arrange the tests as he wants control of the choice of experts. Maybe let him and his lawyers decide on the experts to be appointed and you offer to contribute to the cost, if that's what you want to do?
Especially if he did it and he has had to maintain a front of denial all this time.
There is a secondary question in all this of whether he should be allowed to progress through the prison system anyway, with a view to eventual release or at least imprisonment in the Open Estate. I do think whole life orders are wrong. Although his crime - if he did it - was absolutely horrific, I would hope that as he enters old age he will at least be allowed to serve his time in a lower security environment (subject to safety considerations), with maybe eligibility for the temporary home release scheme.
This highlights why Bamber wanted the Blue forum shut down. The crazy theories are more of a hinderence than help to him. Even Trudies vlogs were stopped which were a lot more mild.
Again do you have anything to back up your assertions?
On a serious note, Bamber does need to be realistic in the arguments he puts forward. And, as I've tried to explain to the people on 'blue', the arguments put forward to the CCRC (and, by extension, to the appellate judges), have to challenge his murder conviction, not exercise vendettas.
Bambers claimed he wants a retrial because he wants ALL the evidence to come out. Personally I cannot ever see his case getting back to the COA, but if he were to ever have a re-trial I'd like to see a similar argument to that put forward at Barry George's re-trial.
"George's defence team argued in court that he lacked the capability to carry out the meticulously-planned execution-style killing.
Scans of his brain showed "severely abnormal" results and some tests placed him in the lowest 1% of the population for his memory and planning abilities."
He's claimed for 33 years now he's not a psychopath. I bet his brain scans would prove otherwise.
Yes. I'm a self-educated man, but I am very knowledgeable about the law - more so than some practising solicitors. In fact, some weeks ago, I was explaining the intricacies of trust law to a solicitor who specialises in private client work, which may be more a commentary on standards in that profession than my cognitive abilities. Nevertheless, I know things. I read books. I have a lot of experience of criminal law and practice and the ways of the courts, including how evidence is collected, the different types of evidence, how witnesses are adduced, etc.. And I've also spent a lot of time in the sort of place where you have time to read lots of books, especially law-related books, among other materials.
If you think I'm wrong (and I may be, I'm not omniscient and don't pretend to be), then we can either leave it or you can consult a practising solicitor, who - I believe - may well confirm that when a defendant or appellant needs to obtain expert evidence, he will (as a rule, exceptions allowing) seek to control the selection of expert(s), the terms of reference and sometimes (depending on the field or discipline involved), the methodology and (if applicable) technology used. The point is that that is perfectly normal and there is nothing suspicious about it, and any defendant or appellant who is not allowed this freedom by a would-be benefactor may well turn down that help on the basis that the outcome of an undirected expert may be unhelpful or even prejudicial. The defendant or appellant in any criminal case is perfectly entitled to take this view, there is nothing wrong with it - to the contrary, it would be strange otherwise. However, at all times, the first duty of the expert is to the court and nothing changes that.
I accept that sometimes would-be appellants seeking to overturn wrongful convictions avail themselves of the help of third parties who direct the expert evidence themselves, without input from the appellant, but that doesn't change what I have said, which is that a directed expert is the normal practice, provided that at all times the expert retains his autonomy and independence as an expert and fulfils his overriding duty to justice.
In other words, and to put it plainly - he must follow the instructions of the defendant in terms of what he is looking for and (sometimes, if the field or discipline of the expert makes this appropriate) how and in what manner he looks for it, but he can't fabricate evidence or findings, or produce misleading findings or in any way lie, exaggerate or mislead the court about material matters. Nor can he overstep his conclusions without making it clear that he is only proffering an opinion. Nor should be misrepresent his expertise.
I hope that explains it fully.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but if we assume that Bamber did this and if we also assume that the Crown's case theory is - more or less - correct, then Bamber's crime demonstrates sophisticated criminal planning abilities. He fabricated a telephone call from Nevill. He concealed the moderator in the gun cupboard to exclude that evidence. He staged the crime scene to portray a murder-suicide. He knew where everybody slept and presumably waited until the early hours to be certain Nevill was in bed (remember, it was a summer night), possibly so that he could manufacture a kill series that would assist his inheritance prospects. He play-acted in front of the police and at the funeral in front of his extended family and the public (in effect, mocking poor Colin Caffell - arguably the biggest surviving victim of all). Etc., etc. You know this case better than me: you'll come up with points of your own, I'm sure.
You follow my point, I assume. This is cold, cold stuff. There is simply no prospect of the Court of Appeal, or indeed the Parole Board, or the Secretary of State for Justice, accepting a defence, appeal or argument that this wasn't carefully planned and that Bamber was somehow mentally or psychologically debilitated. That train has left the station.
Personally, I take a very liberal attitude to criminal justice - but I do favour hanging and I think Bamber should have been hung after the failure of his first appeal. Which, by the way, is not to say I think he did it: I take no view on that one way or the other. I simply can't. I wasn't there. But what I do think is, if you're convicted for five murders, including two kids, you're for the rope.
I do not accept he is a psychopath. I don't believe 'psychopaths' exist. I think the whole thesis of psychopathy is pseudo-science and runs dangerously close to absolving criminals of responsibility for their wrong-doing. In that regard, you may wish to note that psychopathy is not, per se, recognised as a mental illness (though I accept there are analogous personality disorders).
I do accept that, regardless of his guilt or innocence, Jeremy Bamber has something seriously wrong with him in the upstairs department. Despite my (justifiable) scorn for the former Miss Julie Mugford and her joke Toytown evidence, I happen to think she was probably telling the truth about what he told her - if so, it might be as well that Jeremy has spent his life in confinement. Any man who has conversations like that with his girlfriend has a screw loose.
Lol - "smug" & " insufferable" springs to mind 8(0(*
Perhaps I wrongly assumed you were aware of my past link to Simon Hall?
Not dissimilar to Bamber he maintained innocence and launched a "high profile" public campaign. The CCRC referred his case back to the COA in 2010. His conviction was upheld in early 2011. He confessed his guilt in 2013 and hung himself in 2014.
I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding psychopathy now but hold my hands up to being naive back then; especially in relation to cluster b personality types.
I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials.
Btw I've found your posts a breath of fresh air both here and on blue, all things considered. Your posts appear to have garnered a lot of interest. You'll have most certainly rattled Bamber cage anyway 8((()*/
Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post. This is a decontextualised medium. That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post? What's the relevance of it? This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour. She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.
I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted. I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people. This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre. She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths. She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers.
To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner. My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree. Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.
Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.
I have no current interest in Simon Hall, whoever he is. My interest is in Jeremy Bamber's case. That's what this Forum is for. I welcome discussion of analogous cases, but I don't see how your summary helps me understand the Bamber case.
Guilty people do maintain their innocence. We know this. We know that that might be the case with Jeremy Bamber. For one thing, if he confessed he would be immediately in danger among Category A prisoners as an admitted double child killer. So he has an incentive to lie, the lies being part of a self-preservation strategem. I acknowledge and accept this possibility. But none of us need to be told this. We know.
Simon Hall's case tells me nothing about whether Jeremy Bamber is falsely protesting his innocence. Simon Hall is Simon Hall. Jeremy Bamber is Jeremy Bamber. There may be things to learn from the Simon Hall case - legal reasoning often is based on analogies - but what Simon Hall did or didn't do is no proof or indication of anything about Jeremy Bamber.
Turning to psychopathy, I treat it as a thesis only and any assertion of psychopathy is nothing more than a thesis statement and an allegation, not a diagnosis. That said, let me be clear that I am not an expert in psychology or psychiatry. I comment as a layman entirely - and I may well be wrong, but if I am wrong, then I'm in very good company, stellar company in fact.
I wouldn't say that I am 'naive' about human nature. I have encountered lots of different types of people, including people who would be broadly considered sociopaths (a different thing to a psychopath). I have lived in and among such people, shared cells with them in the toughest prisons - including multiple murderers (including a man who was once on Britain's equivalent of death row), including sadistic drug lords and terrorists, etc., and I was once charged with terrorist offences myself as well as other things. I am not a babe in the wood walking round in a rosy daze, innocently oblivious to human nature.
I do accept that there are people who have a diminished conscience. What I don't accept is psychopathy as anything more than a tenuous academic thesis. It so happens that neither does mainstream psychiatry, which is quite telling given that there would be every incentive for the pharmaceutical industry to diagnose a large sub-set of the population as psychopaths. Which is not, I accept, proof of anything, and as I have already observed, there are recognised personality disorders that are analogous to psychopathy.
Was this done privately or on the board, I must have missed it.
See above. If Holly disagrees with me, or receives different advice, or has further questions, I am sure she will return to explain.
My question was
"I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials."
And if you recall I'd used the Barry George re-trial as an example?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454996#msg454996
Sorry if I touched a nerve..
I've seen above http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg454287#msg454287 unless you are going to say I haven't gone far enough back?
I will be pleased to be corrected on this point, but if I understand rightly, there was no suggestion that Barry George had any sort of personality disorder and there is no known diagnosis of such in his case.
I regard neuroscience (and cognitive science, for what matter), which I believe is the root field for brain scan evidence, as a pseudoscience and not a rigorous discipline. However in the context of criminal trials, the usefulness of such evidence is going to depend on what is being asserted by the party relying on the evidence (and to an extent, also depends on which party instructed the expert and why). It's a very broad question. I note that neuroscience is not neurology and, if I understand correctly, brain scan experts tend to be qualified in the former field rather than the latter.
However, I note, c.f. to my own point, that the expert who gave evidence in your example, the Barry George case, was in fact a neuropsychiatrist and therefore presumably a registered medical doctor.
I don't see the relevance of this to Jeremy Bamber's case as it stands today. If he confesses, the facts speak for themselves and are considered well-proved. If he continues to assert his innocence, I very much doubt he will be able to argue that he lacked the planning capacity to carry out such a scheme as that's not in itself exculpatory in the context of the evidence in this case. Each case has to be looked at as fact-specific. I'm not very familiar with the Barry George case, but I imagine one reason his lawyers made the brain scan argument is that there was common ground between the Crown and the appellant about the facts of the case, the only dispute being over who did it. That's won't be the case in Jeremy Bamber's appeal.
The bottom line is that appeal evidence has to undermine the murder conviction, not prove points in isolation or pursue vendettas. Everybody looking at this case would do well to remember that basic point.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but if we assume that Bamber did this and if we also assume that the Crown's case theory is - more or less - correct, then Bamber's crime demonstrates sophisticated criminal planning abilities. He fabricated a telephone call from Nevill. He concealed the moderator in the gun cupboard to exclude that evidence. He staged the crime scene to portray a murder-suicide. He knew where everybody slept and presumably waited until the early hours to be certain Nevill was in bed (remember, it was a summer night), possibly so that he could manufacture a kill series that would assist his inheritance prospects. He play-acted in front of the police and at the funeral in front of his extended family and the public (in effect, mocking poor Colin Caffell - arguably the biggest surviving victim of all). Etc., etc. You know this case better than me: you'll come up with points of your own, I'm sure.
You follow my point, I assume. This is cold, cold stuff. There is simply no prospect of the Court of Appeal, or indeed the Parole Board, or the Secretary of State for Justice, accepting a defence, appeal or argument that this wasn't carefully planned and that Bamber was somehow mentally or psychologically debilitated. That train has left the station..
I'm unsure if you are intentionally missing my point or you are still playing catch up?
I will break it down for you..
I agree with this
I'm not trying to intentionally miss any point. I have addressed your argument in every particular and then some. Jeremy Bamber does not have learning difficulties. He can write letters. He can think and is of at least average intelligence. That's enough. If you're trying to show me that he is, or might be, a psychopath, I have already addressed what I think about this unsupported opinion or speculation of yours, which in my view rises only a little above the intellectual level of one of those American true crime thrillers they used to broadcast on a Wednesday night. In any event, his lawyers will never submit him to a brain scan to prove or disprove this, even if it could be provable, and even if they did for some reason, brain scans that align or not with a thesis of psychopathy are not in and of themselves proof of anything in the context of this case because the other evidence would still stand.
From the defence point-of-view, I can imagine a scenario where the defence argue at appeal that brain scans show a diminished capacity for planning, but that would have to be in conjunction with other evidence that actually casts doubt on the conviction, which in turn raises a doubt, Q.E.D., about why the neuoscientific evidence would be needed at all. Either the conviction is legally safe or not. Brain scans in and of themselves won't cast doubt on the conviction, and you also have to contend with the problem that this is 33 years and counting after the event.
That's apart from my belief, as stated above, that neuroscience is not rigorous, and in the sense of the type of evidence you propose, it wouldn't be taken seriously - regardless of the reason for it. More importantly, it wouldn't affect his conviction one way or the other, as it's not relevant given that other evidence does prove he was the perpetrator. You may of course disagree with my legal prognosis.
I have no current interest in Simon Hall, whoever he is. My interest is in Jeremy Bamber's case. That's what this Forum is for. I welcome discussion of analogous cases, but I don't see how your summary helps me understand the Bamber case.
Guilty people do maintain their innocence. We know this. We know that that might be the case with Jeremy Bamber. For one thing, if he confessed he would be immediately in danger among Category A prisoners as an admitted double child killer. So he has an incentive to lie, the lies being part of a self-preservation strategem. I acknowledge and accept this possibility. But none of us need to be told this. We know.
Simon Hall's case tells me nothing about whether Jeremy Bamber is falsely protesting his innocence. Simon Hall is Simon Hall. Jeremy Bamber is Jeremy Bamber. There may be things to learn from the Simon Hall case - legal reasoning often is based on analogies - but what Simon Hall did or didn't do is no proof or indication of anything about Jeremy Bamber.
Turning to psychopathy, I treat it as a thesis only and any assertion of psychopathy is nothing more than a thesis statement and an allegation, not a diagnosis. That said, let me be clear that I am not an expert in psychology or psychiatry. I comment as a layman entirely - and I may well be wrong, but if I am wrong, then I'm in very good company, stellar company in fact.
I wouldn't say that I am 'naive' about human nature. I have encountered lots of different types of people, including people who would be broadly considered sociopaths (a different thing to a 'psychopath'). I have lived in and among such people, shared cells with them in the toughest prisons - including multiple murderers (including a man who was once on Britain's equivalent of death row), including sadistic drug lords and terrorists, etc., and I was once charged with terrorist offences myself as well as other things. I am not a babe in the wood walking round in a rosy daze, innocently oblivious to human nature.
I do accept that there are people who have a diminished conscience. What I don't accept is psychopathy as anything more than a tenuous academic thesis. It so happens that neither does mainstream psychiatry, which is quite telling given that there would be every incentive for the pharmaceutical industry to see a large sub-set of the population diagnosed as psychopaths. Which is not, I accept, proof of anything, and as I have already observed, there are recognised personality disorders that are analogous to psychopathy.
Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post. This is a decontextualised medium. That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post? What's the relevance of it? This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour. She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.
I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted. I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people. This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre. She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths. She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers.
To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner. My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree. Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.
Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.
I have started to read up on the Bamber case and have formed some initial impressions.
First, I am not going to get dragged into partisan discussions and exchanges that speculate about Bamber's culpability. I was not there. I don't know if he is guilty or not. If you are 'emotional' or 'partisan' about this case, I'd prefer that you don't reply to this thread. My interest in this case is purely in terms of whether the convictions are legally safe.
If that offends you, or if any other aspect of my post offends you, then I apologise, but that being the case, please ignore this thread rather than reply.
You're going off on tangents... I get the impression you are doing it on purpose
It's not MY unsupported opinion or speculation - re psychopathy - it's what his defence were told pre trial
Turning to psychopathy, I treat it as a thesis only and any assertion of psychopathy is nothing more than a thesis statement and an allegation, not a diagnosis. That said, let me be clear that I am not an expert in psychology or psychiatry. I comment as a layman entirely - and I may well be wrong, but if I am wrong, then I'm in very good company, stellar company in fact.
I wouldn't say that I am 'naive' about human nature. I have encountered lots of different types of people, including people who would be broadly considered sociopaths (a different thing to a 'psychopath'). I have lived in and among such people, shared cells with them in the toughest prisons - including multiple murderers (including a man who was once on Britain's equivalent of death row), including sadistic drug lords and terrorists, etc., and I was once charged with terrorist offences myself as well as other things. I am not a babe in the wood walking round in a rosy daze, innocently oblivious to human nature.
I do accept that there are people who have a diminished conscience. What I don't accept is psychopathy as anything more than a tenuous academic thesis. It so happens that neither does mainstream psychiatry, which is quite telling given that there would be every incentive for the pharmaceutical industry to see a large sub-set of the population diagnosed as psychopaths. Which is not, I accept, proof of anything, and as I have already observed, there are recognised personality disorders that are analogous to psychopathy.
Perhaps I wrongly assumed you were aware of my past link to Simon Hall?
Not dissimilar to Bamber he maintained innocence and launched a "high profile" public campaign. The CCRC referred his case back to the COA in 2010. His conviction was upheld in early 2011. He confessed his guilt in 2013 and hung himself in 2014.
I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding psychopathy now but hold my hands up to being naive back then; especially in relation to cluster b personality types.
I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials and how a hyperthetically future re- trial may play out.
Btw I've found your posts a breath of fresh air both here and on blue, all things considered. Your posts appear to have garnered a lot of interest. You'll have most certainly rattled Bamber cage anyway 8((()*/
Putting what you see as my "anti-Bamber bias" aside and looking at this case from a pro Bamber point of view, what do you have to say to him and his supporters (and the supposed fence sitters) in relation to the way in which Bamber has played out his public campaign these past 3 decades?
Yes. I'm a self-educated man, but I am very knowledgeable about the law - more so than some practising solicitors. In fact, some weeks ago, I was explaining the intricacies of trust law to a solicitor who specialises in private client work, which may be more a commentary on standards in that profession than my cognitive abilities. Nevertheless, I know things. I read books. I have a lot of experience of criminal law and practice and the ways of the courts, including how evidence is collected, the different types of evidence, how witnesses are adduced, etc.. And I've also spent a lot of time in the sort of place where you have time to read lots of books, especially law-related books, among other materials.
If you think I'm wrong (and I may be, I'm not omniscient and don't pretend to be), then we can either leave it or you can consult a practising solicitor, who - I believe - may well confirm that when a defendant or appellant needs to obtain expert evidence, he will (as a rule, exceptions allowing) seek to control the selection of expert(s), the terms of reference and sometimes (depending on the field or discipline involved), the methodology and (if applicable) technology used. The point is that that is perfectly normal and there is nothing suspicious about it, and any defendant or appellant who is not allowed this freedom by a would-be benefactor may well turn down that help on the basis that the outcome of an undirected expert may be unhelpful or even prejudicial. The defendant or appellant in any criminal case is perfectly entitled to take this view, there is nothing wrong with it - to the contrary, it would be strange otherwise. However, at all times, the first duty of the expert is to the court and nothing changes that.
I accept that sometimes would-be appellants seeking to overturn wrongful convictions avail themselves of the help of third parties who direct the expert evidence themselves, without input from the appellant, but that doesn't change what I have said, which is that a directed expert is the normal practice, provided that at all times the expert retains his autonomy and independence as an expert and fulfils his overriding duty to justice.
In other words, and to put it plainly - he must follow the instructions of the defendant in terms of what he is looking for and (sometimes, if the field or discipline of the expert makes this appropriate) how and in what manner he looks for it, but he can't fabricate evidence or findings, or produce misleading findings or in any way lie, exaggerate or mislead the court about material matters. Nor can he overstep his conclusions without making it clear that he is only proffering an opinion. Nor should be misrepresent his expertise.
I hope that explains it fully.
Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post. This is a decontextualised medium. That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post? What's the relevance of it? This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour. She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.
I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted. I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people. This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre. She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths. She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers.
To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner. My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree. Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.
Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.
I have to say, one or two people over on that 'blue' forum are off their heads. So much so, I'm starting to wonder if they've been tapping Bamber for illicit substances.
On a serious note, Bamber does need to be realistic in the arguments he puts forward. And, as I've tried to explain to the people on 'blue', the arguments put forward to the CCRC (and, by extension, to the appellate judges), have to challenge his murder conviction, not exercise vendettas.
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.
I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.
So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.
Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !
Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.
I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.
So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.
Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !
Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.
I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.
So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.
Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !
Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.
Speaking of Bamber supporters, the blue forums latest mad man, Nigel, is currently posting how he would like to Kill Anne and David and how he looks forward to the murder trial.
He's been a crank since day one. I don't know why so many of them pretended he was a genuine supporter and played along. Desperate.
At first I thought Mike had created a new pretend poster. So he can pretend someone agrees with him. Now I am not so sure & Nigel might actually be a real person.
With Lookout gone, the remaining posters are Mike, David, Nugs & Nigel. I look forward to some good discussion.
What's "red frame white light?"
The moderators won't give Nigel a permanent ban for this. I used to complain enough when other posters called me names & abused me.
One of the moderators doesn't like me as I'm not a former moderator, elderly, a supporter, woman or have learning disability. Mike would want Nigel to stay anyway.
I didn't mind LuminousWanderers post so much until he said 'I've seen it'. If LuminousWanderer is gay, he's certainly not seen me with my clothes off.
How does joining in make you any better?
Joining in what? I'm not the one who's irrational. I'm not the one who's playing at judge and jury. That's your department.
How do you know Jeremy Bamber killed those people? Has he personally telephoned you and confessed? I'm intrigued to know how you can be so certain? The truth is that you can't be. It's just your ego. That's how miscarriages of justice occur in the first place.
Some people have no sense of humour. Nigel's posts are obviously ridiculous and I am just pulling his leg. But before we go on too much about Nigel, he's just an extreme case. There are also one or two people on here who come across as somewhat irrational and like to gaslight posters.
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!
Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this. ()678%
Joining in what? I'm not the one who's irrational. I'm not the one who's playing at judge and jury. That's your department.
How do you know Jeremy Bamber killed those people? Has he personally telephoned you and confessed? I'm intrigued to know how you can be so certain? The truth is that you can't be. It's just your ego. That's how miscarriages of justice occur in the first place.
Nigel's posts and threads will just encourage Mike, David & Nugs to post. Anyone not familiar with the case who views the forum rather than goes to the OS will know Bamber is guilty. Meaning potential support will be lost.
But Mike won't shut the forum down despite Bamber's request.
I'm assuming Mike and 'Nigel' are one and the same?
Are you able to tell us more about the fundraising event?
The OCT hired out a family pub to hold a fundraising event for Jeremy Bamber. They planned to break world records, have a raffle and live music - all the raise money for Bamber.
The issue is that when they booked the function room they DIDN'T tell the landlord what they were planning to raise money for. As you can imagine the landlord was shocked and disgusted that these people were trying to use his pub for an event like this.
He contacted them to cancel the event and for two days they still carried on selling tickets (even though they knew that the event was cancelled.
It took the landlord to contact them a second time to have the event taken down.
It shows how dishonest they are.
The OCT hired out a family pub to hold a fundraising event for Jeremy Bamber. They planned to break world records, have a raffle and live music - all the raise money for Bamber.
The issue is that when they booked the function room they DIDN'T tell the landlord what they were planning to raise money for. As you can imagine the landlord was shocked and disgusted that these people were trying to use his pub for an event like this.
He contacted them to cancel the event and for two days they still carried on selling tickets (even though they knew that the event was cancelled.
It took the landlord to contact them a second time to have the event taken down.
It shows how dishonest they are.
I think most will agree Caroline's posts are far from irrational.
A judge and jury found JB guilty in 1986.
If you think Caroline's posts are ego driven how do you account for the judges' summing up and verdict at trial and conclusions at appeals? Oh and the judges' conclusions at judicial review. These are the male, Oxbridge educated judges you hold in high esteem.
Anyway let's all please desist from personal comments and stick to debating the facts of the case as we perceive them.
They didn't tell the landlord who the benefit was for?? %56& Unbelievable!
The newspaper only said it was for a miscarriage of justice victim
And it seems the acoustic duo are still none the wiser?
They didn't tell the landlord who the benefit was for?? %56& Unbelievable!
For obvious reason ! A joke isn't it. Once the landlord saw the poster they were using he was horrorfied that he'd been tricked in such a way.
Don't know how they thought they would get away with it - maybe they just don't care, which is worrying!
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post. He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose, or swear, goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum. David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.
He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing, commenting on Nigel.
His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post. He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose, or swear, goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum. David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.I used to enjoy reading Roch's posts. I find him difficult to read these days. Too much anger!
He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing, commenting on Nigel.
His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post. He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose, or swear, goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum. David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.
He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing, commenting on Nigel.
His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post. He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose, or swear, goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum. David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.
He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing, commenting on Nigel.
His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.
Has Roch been banned from this forum ? If not I don't know why he doesn't post. He won't be able say he's seen evidence he can't disclose, or swear, goad & abuse like he does on the Blue forum. David rarely posts on Red for these reasons. But still no harm in joining.
He talks about the Red forum enough. Complaining I mentioned the Blue forum on here last Thursday. As everyone else was doing, commenting on Nigel.
His signature says he does not agree with Stephanie's views, which he reaffirmed last night. I am sure Stephanie would welcome a rational debate with him on here.
I hadn't seen his signature until today Adam; how interesting
"Absolutely no parallels between Simon Hall case and Jeremy Bamber case. None whatsoever. Utterly irrelevant"
@)(++(*
No one believes they are irrational
I'm not exactly sure what you are playing
You're a member of both forums yourself
I am as certain as I can be
That's all!
For obvious reason ! A joke isn't it. Once the landlord saw the poster they were using he was horrorfied that he'd been tricked in such a way.
We have the owner of this forum to thank for taking the time and trouble to upload docs thus creating an alternative to what many regard as the madness on Blue! Although ironically many of them on Blue are very much to the left of the political spectrum ie red! Bet they're seeing red they're blue and not red 8()(((@# @)(++(*
It seems a long time ago now Holly but you are spot on. The original forum was indeed set up to counter the malicious propaganda being promoted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
I hope LuminiousWanderer continues to post here. I quite liked the case related content of his/her posts although he/she seems to get easily frustrated with others.
Hope you join us again soon LuminiousWanderer. 8((()*/
The likes of David and Roch are able to post all sorts of whacky theories on Blue as they don't have anyone from the innocent camp to challenge them.
When I challenge David here he refers to me as "catty" and then runs away back to the Blue forum.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8956.msg448211#msg448211
I'm not trying to intentionally miss any point. I have addressed your argument in every particular and then some. Jeremy Bamber does not have learning difficulties. He can write letters. He can think and is of at least average intelligence. That's enough. If you're trying to show me that he is, or might be, a psychopath, I have already addressed what I think about this unsupported opinion or speculation of yours, which in my view rises only a little above the intellectual level of one of those American true crime thrillers they used to broadcast on a Wednesday night. In any event, his lawyers will never submit him to a brain scan to prove or disprove this, even if it could be provable, and even if they did for some reason, brain scans that align or not with a thesis of psychopathy are not in and of themselves proof of anything in the context of this case because the other evidence would still stand.
From the defence point-of-view, I can imagine a scenario where the defence argue at appeal that brain scans show a diminished capacity for planning, but that would have to be in conjunction with other evidence that actually casts doubt on the conviction, which in turn raises a doubt, Q.E.D., about why the neuoscientific evidence would be needed at all. Either the conviction is legally safe or not. Brain scans in and of themselves won't cast doubt on the conviction, and you also have to contend with the problem that this is 33 years and counting after the event.
That's apart from my belief, as stated above, that neuroscience is not rigorous, and in the sense of the type of evidence you propose, it wouldn't be taken seriously - regardless of the reason for it. More importantly, it wouldn't affect his conviction one way or the other, as it's not relevant given that other evidence does prove he was the perpetrator. You may of course disagree with my legal prognosis.
Lookout reaffirming yesterday she supports Bamber for non evidence reasons -
"For starters I'm a staunch pro-Bamber,always have been and remain to be so. Because I remember these murders as though it were yesterday, and I immediately " sensed " that JB wasn't guilty."
The likes of David and Roch are able to post all sorts of whacky theories on Blue as they don't have anyone from the innocent camp to challenge them.
When I challenge David here he refers to me as "catty" and then runs away back to the Blue forum.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8956.msg448211#msg448211
Excluding practicing lawyers and experts (eg Michael Turner QC and Peter Sutherst both on record saying they believe JB innocent or words to this effect) I guess supporters can be broken down into two groups: those with somewhat of a public profile such as Andrew Hunter MP and actress Susan Penhaligon and those without a public profile such as members of the CT and Mike Tesko. The group without a public profile attempt to engage with the public: the CT with JB's website, bake-off, graveside reading and letters to the Justic Sec etc and Mike with his forum and youtube vids. Supporting posters on forums mostly post under first names, derivatives or pseudonyms so don't count.
Those claiming to be the victim of a MoJ usually have family support either the entire family or a dedicated family member or two eg:
Stefan Kiszko - mother
Sally Clark - husband and father. In this case SC's husband was a solictor and her father a serving police officer.
Michael Hickey - mother
Stephen Downing - parents and sister
Sam Hallam - family
Often family members are supported by a significant other:
- Stefan Kiszko - solicitor - Campbell Malone
- Michael Hickey - journalist - Paul Foot
- Stephen Downing - journalist - Don Hale
- Sam Hallam - Actor - Ray Winstone and Playwright - Tess Berry-Hart
Looking further afield the likes of David Bain benefitted from the support of NZ's All Black rugby player Joe Karam. Amanda Knox benefitted from a very capable group known as 'Judges For Justice'.
Is JB's case a dead duck, long in the water? Or has JB been disadvantaged, harmed even, by supporters past and present and/or lack of a capable, credible, long-term supporter(s) prepared to commit?
19
Excluding practicing lawyers and experts (eg Michael Turner QC and Peter Sutherst both on record saying they believe JB innocent or words to this effect) I guess supporters can be broken down into two groups: those with somewhat of a public profile such as Andrew Hunter MP and actress Susan Penhaligon and those without a public profile such as members of the CT and Mike Tesko. The group without a public profile attempt to engage with the public: the CT with JB's website, bake-off, graveside reading and letters to the Justic Sec etc and Mike with his forum and youtube vids. Supporting posters on forums mostly post under first names, derivatives or pseudonyms so don't count.
Those claiming to be the victim of a MoJ usually have family support either the entire family or a dedicated family member or two eg:
Stefan Kiszko - mother
Sally Clark - husband and father. In this case SC's husband was a solictor and her father a serving police officer.
Michael Hickey - mother
Stephen Downing - parents and sister
Sam Hallam - family
Often family members are supported by a significant other:
- Stefan Kiszko - solicitor - Campbell Malone
- Michael Hickey - journalist - Paul Foot
- Stephen Downing - journalist - Don Hale
- Sam Hallam - Actor - Ray Winstone and Playwright - Tess Berry-Hart
Looking further afield the likes of David Bain benefitted from the support of NZ's All Black rugby player Joe Karam. Amanda Knox benefitted from a very capable group known as 'Judges For Justice'.
Is JB's case a dead duck, long in the water? Or has JB been disadvantaged, harmed even, by supporters past and present and/or lack of a capable, credible, long-term supporter(s) prepared to commit?
19
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!
Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this. ()678%
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1259.msg39522.html#msg39522
Offline Gemini
Junior Member
**
Posts: 52
HELLO EVERYONE
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:PM »
"Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading for the forum for sometime now and recently have been tempted to post, even it was to say some choice words to PoorBambi!!!! Some of you know me from the FB Innocent Page and I obviously firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent. I know the case pretty well having read several books and all the documents/statements posted. Not sure I can add anything intelligent to the debate but I will certainly try. I continue to learn something new everyday from the posts made and certainly think of it as valuable information for the most part. BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book. Thanks Tru
So Tru (Short for Trudi Benjamin?) says her hero is a man who "threatens to kill" JM and co *&^^&
And a forum crush on Jackie @)(++(*
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1696.msg52275.html#msg52275
"http://ww.wsd1.org/contacts/contacts.htm
"Not hard to find her on the internet. I wonder if she would be in the position she is now with convictions for robbery and cheque book fraud and without a tidy sum to set her up.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2580.msg80447.html#msg80447
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48100.html#msg48100
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48183.html#msg48183
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1710.msg52906.html#msg52906
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2599.msg81646.html#msg81646
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2062.0
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176
"No reply and maybe it wasn't the wisest choice but I agree that a major celeb might be a good thing. Especially since any credibility Bob Wofflechops added has sadly been wiped out!
"I think it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth. I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent. I bet they wish he would just shut up.
"Jeremy works on his case for hours and hours every day and I'm sure is angry but what good would it be if he fell apart and let the system eat him alive. He choses to fight and he has never given up. The justice system is against him and he has and will continue to do everything in his power to see his sentence over turned. Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help. Rant over :o
"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly". http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1319.msg40974.html#msg40974
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&cf=1
Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -
'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"
"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."
"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&cf=1
Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -
'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"
"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."
"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."
https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo
This Youtube video from O'Brien is on the OS.
He said there is 'new evidence' he can't disclose which wasn't brought up at trial. I assume it wasn't available in 2012 either. Not sure how this evidence has been obtained in the last 6 years if the police are withholding evidence.
He confirms the real killers of his own crime have not been caught but forensic tests showed him & his two collegues were victims of a MOJ.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&cf=1
Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -
'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"
"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."
"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."
https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo
This Youtube video from O'Brien is on the OS.
He said there is 'new evidence' he can't disclose which wasn't brought up at trial. I assume it wasn't available in 2012 either. Not sure how this evidence has been obtained in the last 6 years if the police are withholding evidence.
He confirms the real killers of his own crime have not been caught but forensic tests showed him & his two collegues were victims of a MOJ.
Btw Adam, LM clearly singled you out on blue and his abuse of you did not go unoticed by the mods in the end. LM's post are extremely telling IMO and should remain. Why would this poster request my posts stay here (even though I'd never requested there removal?) but there's be removed over there?
No reply req; you clearly have a good fundamental grasp and understanding of all the factors in cases like this and knowledge of how and why the guilty attempt to con their way out of their despicable crimes and attempt to beat the CJS at their own game. Technicalities in law do not maketh an innocent man nor a miscarriage of justice. In fact the term "miscarriage of justice" is outdated, over used and is extremely misleading IMO.
LuminousWanderer was just frustrated that I had ripped apart his 'Sheila scenario' & then provided a source regarding Nevill being shot 4 times upstairs.
So focused on me, even creating a very abusive thread which was deleted. He will be banned if he behaves like that again, on either forum. However I rarely post on his threads.
To be fair other supporters focus on the poster if frustrated. David using his images & Roch calling posters a 'tw..' or telling them to 'f--- off'.
Gave their game away really didn't they. If one is neutral and not emotionally involved why then get bent out of shape over posts on an Internet forum?
I didn't see a thread aimed at you? Nasty piece of work IMO Adam.
It was called 'Adam is a liar and a troll'.
The thread was quickly taken down, as was Nigel's abusive thread towards me a SteveUK a week earlier. Unlike Nigel, LuminousWanderer was not banned.
It was called 'Adam is a liar and a troll'.
The thread was quickly taken down, as was Nigel's abusive thread towards me a SteveUK a week earlier. Unlike Nigel, LuminousWanderer was not banned.
Court frees three over killing of newsagent
By Andrew Buncombe Saturday 18 December 1999 00:00 GMT
"Michael O'Brien has had plenty of time to choose his words carefully. Jailed 11 years ago for a murder he always insisted he did not commit, he and two others yesterday had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal.
Michael O'Brien has had plenty of time to choose his words carefully. Jailed 11 years ago for a murder he always insisted he did not commit, he and two others yesterday had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal.
Standing outside the court yesterday, Mr O'Brien, said: "I have got mixed feelings. I am pleased that my name has been cleared but I also feel for the victim's family. We know who the real killer is - his name has been mentioned in court. It is up to the police to arrest him."
He called for a public inquiry into a series of investigations by South Wales Police, the force that arrested him and charged him with murder. His demands were supported by his barrister, Michael Mansfield QC.
"This is not the only case like this - there are more than 10," said Mr O'Brien, who, with his co-appellants, had been on bail. Mr O'Brien, 32, along with Darren Hall and Ellis Sherwood - known as the Cardiff Newsagent Three - were convicted in 1988 of the 1987 murder of newsagent Philip Saunders. Mr Saunders died in hospital five days after being attacked in his back yard in the Welsh capital by someone wielding a shovel. He was never able to identify his killer to the police.
Central to the prosecution's case at the 1988 trial was a confession made to police by Mr Hall that he had acted as a lookout for the others during a "robbery that went wrong".
During the appeal, which was ordered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), the court was told the confessions could not be relied on because Mr Hall, who was 18 at the time and has since retracted his confession, was suffering from an "anti-social personality disorder". He was prone to exaggeration - once he confessed to a robbery which took place while he was on remand for another offence.
The prosecution's own psychiatric expert conceded that Mr Hall's admissions were "at risk of being unreliable". The hearing also raised questions about the conduct of South Wales Police, who were said by the CCRC to have shown a "systematic disregard" of interrogation rules under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.
The court was told that Mr Hall was denied access to a solicitor during crucial parts of his interrogation, which included the period when he made his admissions, and was at times handcuffed to a radiator.
Yesterday, after hearing nine days of evidence, Lord Justice Roch said he and fellow judges Mr Justice Keene and Mr Justice Astill, would give a full judgement in the New Year.
After the ruling, Mr O'Brien and Mr Hall said they would be taking civil action against the South Wales Police. Citing a series of convictions involving the same force which had been overturned on appeal in recent years, Mr O'Brien claimed that there was evidence of "institutionalised corruption".
"The only way this is going to come out is to have a full, open public inquiry. If it takes me another 10 years I am going to do it. I am going to become South Wales Police's worst nightmare," Mr O'Brien said.
Michael O'Brien and Ian Simms took their cases to the law lords in 1999
"Lord Steyn said that freedom of speech was "the lifeblood of democracy" acting "as a brake on the abuse of power by public officials".
But Mrs McCourt, whose daughter's body has not been found, said: "Prisoners should not have the privilege of contact with journalists [to] publicise either their cases, for monetary gain or to boost their egos and self esteem."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jul/09/claredyer
Mrs McCourt continues to fight for justice for her daughter whose body has sadly never been recovered
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-35092780
"Bob Woffinden's report on Ian Simms, the landlord of a Lancashire pub who was jailed for the murder of Helen McCourt ("Burden of proof", 28 January), contains certain inaccuracies and omissions which must be challenged
But the most glaring omission in Mr Woffinden's article is his failure to mention that Mr Simms's own defence counsel, Mr David Turner, had stated in October 1990 when applying for leave to appeal, that Simms was "physically strong and an expert in Thai boxing, and it could be that he never intended Miss McCourt really serious harm".
Tragically, by supporting Simms and giving him false hope, Mr Woffinden is delaying the moment when Simms finally comes to terms with what he has done. Without Woffinden's intervention, Marie McCourt could now be at peace. Simms could well have told her where Helen's remains have lain since 1988, and Marie could have been able to give her daughter the decent Christian burial which is her right.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/a-matter-of-facts-1609886.html
It is a surprise that none of the 3 convicted people had alibi's. One of the witnesses was apparently unreliable.
Anti social personality disorder allegedly - also known as psychopathy
Crime does indeed seem to pay for some Adam *&^^&
I found him abusive, narcissistic and full of self pity. Again that's my opinion of him and others may not agree. When I spoke to him, more often than not, he was stoned and all he ever spoke about was Michael O'Brien.
"A key complaint by Mr O'Brien was that Det Insp Lewis fabricated evidence - a written note of a cell conversation between him and Mr Sherwood implicating them both in the killing.
But the report said the investigation found no evidence of wrongdoing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-35050762
I err on the side of caution these days. Michael O'Brien may well have got away with murder.
Here's an earlier news article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/466372.stm
"Darren Hall at the time admitted being the lookout and implicated others but has since retracted that statement, blaming police pressure as one of the reasons for his confession.
He said: "The amount of pressure that was put on me by detectives, they would take me upstairs, take me downstairs, they wouldn't let me rest, they wouldn't let me have my solicitor, and it got to the point where I was at breaking point."
Individuals with anti social behaviour are renowned for blaming everyone else but themselves. Unable to take responsibility for their actions. Reminds me of when Simon Hall redacted his confession and all the excuses he made. Heard it all before.
In this news article it states O'Brien said it was "important for me" and he used the word "relative" as opposed to Mr Saunders or Philip Saunders. It's impersonal.
And it's seem the victims family weren't given much choice in the matter https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-newsagent-threes-michael-obrien-5872484
You met Michael O'Brien ?
Doesn't a relation of Barry George also support Bamber ? Another released criminal where no alternative suspect has been charged. These people can relate to Bamber, after having long fights for freedom themselves. Perhaps they have other reasons for supporting Bamber.
All Bamber needs now is Sion Jenkins on his side.
I see Maggie has posted in reply to Steve_uk
Posts: 13393
Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 01:38 PM »
Quote from: Steve_uk on Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Well we all agree on something.
"Of course we do. Colin was a victim as much as anyone. He showed tremendous courage and fortitude. One reason why I am so shocked that JM stayed a weekend in his flat with JB supposedly supporting him when she later claimed she had known Jenemy was the killer.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9373.msg437322.html#msg437322
Probably for the same reason why I organised Hall's funeral. Maggie again shows her complete and utter lack of comprehension or understanding with regards what men like this do to their victims and the cognitive dissonance sufferered following such an experience.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7TO3aMgNs
Maggie suffers from a selective memory imo
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7980.msg379294.html#msg379294
"Hi Adam,
I do believe a cold blooded murderer has to have some kind of personality disorder, many have been abused as children themselves. It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo.
To me the main action is to keep the rest of society safe from such damaged and dangerous individuals so I am up to a point in agreement with Steve's suggestion of a safe island for such people.
The question here is why is Maggie focusing on JM's supposed wrong doings? The term "flying monkies" springs to mind.
7. Cognitive Dissonance
This one involves look within. When a psychopath enters your life, you’ll notice an intense and ever-increasing sense of dread and self-doubt. Your brain will struggle to reconcile the “perfect” person from the beginning, with the inappropriate behavior you’re starting to see more regularly. That’s because that perfect person never actually existed. It was a persona, created just for you. This is the hardest thing for our minds and hearts to understand.
With a psychopath, you’re always the bad one. Even though they lie, cheat, manipulate, steal, and con—you’re the one with the problem. Psychopaths have this innate ability to make you feel like there’s something wrong with you for recognizing that there’s something off about them.https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/top-7-ways-to-spot-a-sociopath-psychopath-or-narcissist.342/
5. Covert Backstabbing and Betrayal
Psychopaths devalue and replace others at the drop of a hat. Although you probably experienced an instant connection of trust and excitement with them, you’ll come to realize they can forge that bond with anyone. After once declaring you better than all the “crazy” people in their life, they’ll go running back to those very same people and declare you crazy. Psychopaths have no loyalty, no attachment, and no love. They leave behind a trail of destruction, and they blame their victims for it every time.
6. Turning People Against Each Other
When a psychopath enters the picture, you’ll find yourself disliking people you’ve never even met. Psychopaths are constantly whispering poison and gossip into everyone’s ears, making each person feel jealous and suspicious of the others. But they do so under a guise of innocence, using pity stories and pseudo-concern to warp your perception. Psychopaths want people distracted and in constant competition for their attention, so they seem in high-demand at all times.
Julie Mugford was GROOMED by Jeremy Bamber http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/grooming Grooming is the predatory act of maneuvering another individual into a position that makes them more isolated, dependent, likely to trust, and more vulnerable to abusive behavior
And Maggie yet again displays her hypocrisy. "It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo.
She now chooses to not sit in judgement of Bamber but has no problem whatsoever judging JM! Yet again, pathetic and indeed shameful and clearly lacking insight.
Is Maggie a 'supporter'? She seemed to be when she first joined Blue and then seemed to change stance when others did.
AE's WS's states she observed JB's arms in a short sleeve short shortly after the murders and they were mark free.
AP said he thought he saw scars on JB's hands but this was all investigated and nothing untoward was found.
Investigated when?
See ground 13, point 444
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Bet you're pleased to have me as your bestie on the forum.
Is Maggie a 'supporter'? She seemed to be when she first joined Blue and then seemed to change stance when others did.
AE's WS's states she observed JB's arms in a short sleeve short shortly after the murders and they were mark free.
AP said he thought he saw scars on JB's hands but this was all investigated and nothing untoward was found.
I'm aware of the details in the case papers, including the above Holly.
Jeremy Bamber was not arrested immediately after the murders and strip searched. Therefore any injuries he may have had on his body, were never photographed and/or accounted for. Doesn't mean there weren't any.
She flits between the two and is now an apparant fence sitter? This is what she states today:
"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry. I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths. I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437407.html#msg437407
My opinion, Maggie isn't being honest. She appears unable to be honest through fear of upsetting certain members of the blue forum. Her position as a forum moderator appears to bring her some kind of control. She has a tendency for favouritism and seems to turn on any member who doesn't support Bamber.
I think all this fence sitting stuff is silly. Fair enough if you're new to the case but if you've been around the case for a number of years and you're sitting on the fence I think it's somewhat disingenuous.
Maggie seems to have a lot of strong views on other subjects, especially left wing politics, so why she is reticent with JB who knows.
IMO the fence sitters we know of on blue lack the courage of their conviction. They aren't prepared to openly admit their mistakes and fear being critisised if they do.
In a matter of minutes Maggie goes from posting this:
"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry. I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths. I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
,
To this:
"Well if 'Nevill rang Bamber-FACT then you have just lost your own argument. IF Nevill rang Jeremy then he is telling the truth.
Saying someone had an OPTION to do something simply means it's a possibility, it doesn't prove anything except that your arguments are all possibilities..... FACT."
Then Lookout posts this:
"I just despair at the anti-bombing campaigners during this last attack on the chemical factories. Left to Corbyn,thousands more children would have perished and this country would have been up in arms about it,but because the " job was done " to destroy these factories that's not right either ??
So what was it to have been ?
The difference was that the air-raids didn't attack civilians !! Corbyn would still have been dithering while children were being murdered. I found it difficult to watch such news on the children of Syria---perhaps Corbyn didn't !
It's a disgrace that the PM has to face questioning on this. Nobody questioned Blair when he took all our troops NEEDLESSLY to Iraq !!
Maggie states:
"Children are being murdered every day by bbarrel bombs and all kinds of unimaginable horrors. I have a friend who's partner is Syrian, his family are either in Idlib or Turkish refugee camps. They have heard stories and seen phone videos of absolute horror which has stopped them sleeping and functioning properly. I haven't got the courage to look at such things and neither do most people but we do need to accept the true horror of Syria. True the bombs by Trump, May and Macron probably didn't kill anyone and chemical weapons are a scourge and illegal but people young and old will still die horribly. We have flexed our muscles ... Jeremy Corbyn has campaigned against nuclear and chemical weapons all his life. He was against war in Iraq. Worked for peace in Ireland. However much people may disagree with his politics I don't think anyone can condemn him for being uncaring. The only answer to Syria is talking however difficult otherwise this will end in a world war. It is horrendously dangerous.
Then Lookout:
It'll be far more of a dangerous situation if there is an outcry over the bombing of the factories. I think people should just hold their tongues as a sharp shock to the likes of Assad is more productive saving days/weeks of negotiating and dithering. I couldn't watch the news with those children suffering,so it has to stop.
The only other alternative is to totally ignore anything that goes on in other countries and their regimes. In fact in the Syria case,Assad's regime won't be compromised---just his methods of chemical destruction which would/could have a wider effect than just his own country. Other than that should we ever interfere in those countries which have monstrous rulers ? Particularly places such as the Middle East.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9365.msg437327.html#msg437327
I find their behaviour interesting and very telling. Especially when considered alongside some of the comments (critisisms - I'm being generous) made by LM about many of us over the 2 boards these past few weeks.
Often the way people behave doesn't match with what they say but what they do say can often be their own psychological projections.
Maggie is a moderator of a forum supporting mass murderer Jeremy Bamber who has been tried and found guilty in a court of law; regardless of his protestations of innocence. In the eyes of the law and the majority of the public he murdered his family and two sleeping little boys (one was found deceased whilst still sucking his thumb).
These facts appear to be lost on some people or indeed appear unimportant to them.
Their behaviour comes across as self serving and they appear able to dissosociate from reality when it suits.
When Maggie states: "I haven't got the courage to look at such things and neither do most people but we do need to accept the true horror of Syria" she displays her hypocrisy. She has the courage when it suits her, to look at and comment on, for example, the photos of the murder victims at WHF, but readily dismisses the horror of WHF and states "we do need to accept the horror of Syria." Which only goes to further highlight her quite apparent double standards. Many of us have accepted the true horror of WHF but because Maggie hasn't, and she says she doesn't know who murdered the family, she sees nothing wrong in her behaviour.
"Hypocrites are the people who try their damnedest to convey a sense of virtue, only to reveal that they’re about as deep as a puddle. Unsurprisingly, people despise hypocrisy.
“People dislike hypocrites because they unfairly use condemnation to gain reputational benefits and appear virtuous at the expense of those who they are condemning–when these reputational benefits are in fact undeserved,” explains psychological scientist Jillian Jordan of Yale University, a co-author on the study.
Another study by researchers at the University of Southern California showed that hypocrisy is made up of at least one of the following behaviors:
(1) Moral double standards occur when a person is vindictive about a perceived offensive act of someone else; yet, shows little hesitance or guilt in doing the same thing. (Example: cutting someone off in traffic.)
(2) Moral duplicity is generally the one we use to define the act. Moral duplicity is when someone claims to be honorable in their motives, but this is known to be a complete falsehood. (Example: a politician citing neutral views on an issue despite indisputable evidence to the contrary.)
(3) Moral weakness is a type of cognitive disconnect wherein a person’s beliefs or morals are trumped by their lack of self-control; thereby, they engage in the act knowing it to be wrong. (Example: a clergy member taking a vow of celibacy and then engaging in sexual acts.)
Read more here https://www.powerofpositivity.com/5-hidden-behaviors-hypocrite-displays-revealing/
HERE ARE FIVE SUCH BEHAVIORS:
1. INCONSISTENCIES
Of course, one may be inconsistent without being hypocritical. For example, an unpredictable employee who is capable of great performance may demonstrate inconsistent effort and results. They’re not hypocrites; they’re unreliable.
But hypocrites’ inconsistencies tend to be more calculated, and related more to word and deed – and this behavior gets worse as time passes. They’ll say one thing and do something else more frequently.
2. “DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO.”
High expectations of others and little to no expectations of themselves. Perhaps this is all that needs to be said. The hypocrite may be articulate and charming in their manipulative efforts, but they’ll never emulate any standard they set forth for others.
Dean Burnett, a writer for The Guardian, uses the British political scene to emphasize this point: “Where do people get off dictating how others should behave, putting restrictions on what they can say and do that they don’t adhere to themselves? It’s wrong and immoral, and shows that they can’t be trusted.” Pretty much.
3. PLAYING THE VICTIM
Make no mistake: hypocrisy and narcissism are two peas in a pod. “Like peas and carrots,” as Forrest Gump would say. Both groups of people will always try to play the victim. Never is this act so evident as when they’re caught for being in the wrong.
Hypocrites can also be quite crafty. They may use sleight of hand to shake off any blame placed their way. This “Woe is me” attitude wears quite thin after a while.
4. AN AURA OF SUPERIORITY
A hypocrite’s level of arrogance and superiority is borderline narcissistic. Attempt to engage them as equals, as you’ll likely walk away feeling like a student who has just been reprimanded by the teacher. They’ll (directly or indirectly) mock your intellect, maturity (oh, the irony!), or stability.
Similar to playing the victim, this condescending veil will wear thin as the relationship progresses. After all, when no one likes you, it’s pointless to act superior!
5. THEY START BEING NICE TO “THE RIGHT PEOPLE.”
Watch a hypocrite carefully enough, and you’ll inevitably see their two-faced attitude come to the surface. The “important” people, i.e., those with power, will bear the brunt of a hypocrite’s inauthenticity. If those “important people” are smart, they’ll dismiss the charlatan without prejudice.
You see, hypocrites like to believe that they belong to a certain “class,” despite their victim-playing, complaining, and outright lying. The only “class” to which these fraudsters belong is alongside all the other phonies.
Maggie later goes on to state:
I'm not absolutely sure Jon2 I have heard that claimed and no one has disputed it but no actual proof.
"With respect I don't believe Assad will take any notice, he is apparently reckless like his father before him and the rest of the family. In many ways he is fighting for his life. Like Gaddafi, Saddam and others they believe they will win by crushing all before them but he is doomed just like the others. Using the Syrian people to maje a point is wrong imo. All we can do is fight for peace by talking imo, whether it seems hopeless or not you need to keep going and never give up. Nothing is resolved by war They all have to talk in the end.
Then along comes Roch with:
"Isn't all this falling in to the hands of the very media we are discussing? Former British ambassadors have gone on record in very hostile media interviews (Sky and BBC radio), questioning both the Salisbury and Douma incidents. Where is the proof that Russia was involved in the former and Assad in the latter? This is very point I am making. The media are running with a narrative across the board, like it's preordained. There's no dissenting voice and any interviewee who dares to dissent is treated with contempt and mockery.
Not dissimilar to the jeremybamberforum, hey Roch
Is Maggie a 'supporter'? She seemed to be when she first joined Blue and then seemed to change stance when others did.
You met Michael O'Brien ?
Doesn't a relation of Barry George also support Bamber ? Another released criminal where no alternative suspect has been charged. These people can relate to Bamber, after having long fights for freedom themselves. Perhaps they have other reasons for supporting Bamber.
All Bamber needs now is Sion Jenkins on his side.
I guess forums -like all other 'families' with difficult members- are just microcosms of what goes on in the larger world
I've heard Trudi is working on OJ 8)-)))
Maggie today states:
"Hi Frankie as far as we are aware there are no reports of injuries to JB. There are comments by relatives short time after the murders that he had a few scars on his hands but nothing concrete and as he was a farmer that is not surprising. Julie Mugford slept with Jeremy after the murders and although later accusing him of the murders she has never claimed to have seen any injuries on his body.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437394.html?PHPSESSID=2uufgsp53ktfo4brgggn1ep8n5#msg437394
"Nothing concrete" Maggie wasn't there so how does she know what the relatives said a short time after the murder wasn't true. Is she suggesting they lied?
Just because JM never claimed there weren't injuries to Bamber, doesn't mean he didn't have injuries.
He could have hidden them. He could have slept in long sleeved tops and pyjama bottoms, turned the lights out, for example. There has been no suggestion he slept naked for starters.
Plus, I imagine by this point JM was hyper-vigilant and in shock and her mind was all over the place. It's often not until sometime after, that victims of psychological abuse (psychological abuse following a relationship with a highly disturbed and disordered individual) recognise, with the benefit of hindsight, things they've not considered before. It's all too consuming and overwhelming to come to terms with overnight. It's a process. Some victims of this type of abuse dissociate from the traumatic events.
Maybe Bamber wore make up, a concealer of some description? Who knows. Maybe he was covered in bruises but the make up concealed them? Maybe JM didn't ever say out loud that Bamber had bruises but this doesn't mean he never had any.
Well done Adam for pointing out some of the facts.
Especially these;
There have been a lot of suggestions of third party involvement -
Crispy fired the second shot into Sheila. Suggested by Bamber.
Nevill may have said 'She' rather than 'Sheila' on the phone. Suggested by Bamber.
A hit man team carried out the massacre. Suggested by Mike.
One of the relatives carried out the massacre. Suggested by Sherlock.
Sheila and Bamber committed the massacre together.
The massacre was committed by a hunched figure seen in the area.
Sheila shot herself once downstairs and was then shot again upstairs by the police. Suggested by Mike.
Someone had a grudge against Nevill, who was a part time magistrate.
Bamber couldn't have committed the massacre alone. So had an accomplice. Who this could have been has never been suggested.
A man called Jeff Blake committed the massacre. Suggested by Mike.
It would appear Maggie is unable to recognise the error of her ways and unable to separate facts from fiction so misleads and dismisses what is put before her, by stating to Adam:
"Nice short story Adam. Your opinions are not fact"
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437399.html#msg437399
Because of Maggie's bias (and abusive behaviour) towards Adam she is too busy shooting him down and attempting to show herself as being better than Adam to recognise where she is going wrong. I did it myself once, especially with Hall's brother. Then again, so did many others.
Trudi Benjamin's HERO Mike Tesco writes today: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.msg437509.html#msg437509
GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD
Sheila believed that when God spoke, he must bark like a dog, or that if she barked like a dog that God would make the firearm officers understand her and no doubt she must have ammused herself knowing that the firearms officers, understood her intention and resolve, when she took on the voice of a dog..
DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG..
And NGB, Maggie, Lookout, David, Roch and co watch on and say nothing whilst Sheila Caffell is mocked in this way *&^^&
They are all as bad as one another as far as I'm concerned!
The moderators do try to please all parties. Women, supporters, former moderators, elderly posters, posters with learning disabilities. Unfortunately I am none of these so there is no holding back on the main board towards me. That is just the way it is.
I requested assistance last week from an online moderator straight after LuminousWanderer started calling me a liar. No response was received for the next 4 hours.
When a moderator did respond, a non abusive post I had written, 'correctly' stating LuminousWanderer's threads get very low response rates, was quoted for an unknown reason.
After 4 hours it was now too late. There was no way LuminousWanderer was going to stop his abuse & ignored & disputed the moderators instructions, and continued to abuse.
The moderators do try to please all parties. Women, supporters, former moderators, elderly posters, posters with learning disabilities. Unfortunately I am none of these so there is no holding back on the main board towards me. That is just the way it is.
I requested assistance last week from an online moderator straight after LuminousWanderer started calling me a liar. No response was received for the next 4 hours.
When a moderator did respond, a non abusive post I had written, 'correctly' stating LuminousWanderer's threads get very low response rates, was quoted for an unknown reason.
After 4 hours it was now too late. There was no way LuminousWanderer was going to stop his abuse & ignored & disputed the moderators instructions, and continued to abuse.
I would also like to make the point that anyone hoping for a retrial or appeal for Jeremy Bamber would feel that the damage done by the Simon Hall is Innocent Campaign is truly terrible and to think that the Jeremy Bamber Forum has given Mrs Hall a platform to defame members of the Hall family and his ex girlfriend is unbelievable.http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4102.msg151507#msg151507
Pot and kettle come to mind
Lets hope that one day Ngb, Keira, Maggie, Susan etc gain a conscience one day instead of patting Mrs Hall on the back for the abuse
And so it continues *&^^& http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.15.html
Roch
"There are pages missing from Essex Constabulary scene and event logs (i.e. they have been re-written). Cant comment on the exact reason. However, Mrs Caffell may have been experiencing a psychotic episode during this incident
frankie
"Yes I read the suggestion. I personally think that even the best mimicking human still sounds like a human rather than a dog though. Would need to hear a recording (if there was one) to judge the veracity of the sounds and 'responses.'
Roch
"Yes, if true, she would have sounded like a human mimicking a dog. The full audio tapes from the scene are never going to come to light. Copies were apparently made but will never see the light of day.
Lookout
"Also any tape or transcript could prove whether there was any code of communication at work or just random noises.
Maggie
"Yes he was, he was also very old.
frankie
"This is all fascinating and intriguing and the reason that I have joined this forum, so thanks. Forgive me for being on catch up but how is all of this detailed information known? Just thinking that if I'd been involved then by now I'd have blabbed to someone and this might be all over the press? *&^^&
Mike T
"Something else of significance occurred much earlier at the scene when PS Bews, PC Myall, and Jeremy went on a recce' of the farmhouse...
It was as a result of this 'event' occurring, which may have attracted the silhouetted figure to come and stand next to the parents bedroom window, as if peering out into the grounds at the front of the farmhouse! After a couple of minutes, the silhouetted figure walked swiftly across the full opening of the bedroom window, from right to left (as viewed from the vantage point, of Bews, Myall and Jeremy), going in the general direction of an internal doorway which led from the main bedroom into the box room...
With the benefit of hindsight, it now seems almost certain that the silhouetted figure had left the main bedroom and gone to the window in the box room which was situated on a different side of the farmhouse. It would have provided the silhouetted figure with an ideal opportunity to cast a lengthy gaze over the courtyard, near the back door to the house, as well as afford a general view toward the barns and outbuildings!
What was it, which caused this activity in the mind of the silhouetted figure?
Well...
It was the dog barking, which was locked away in one of the outbuildings, the sound of the dog barking alerted the person, whoever it was, that there was someone or something milling around outside!
Jeremy would comment to the two police officers at the time, that it was strange that his father (Neville Bamber) had not responded to the barking of the dog, because apparently it would have drawn Neville from his bed to investigate! Maybe, Neville Bamber was already dead by that stage (4.02am)? If so, then who could the silhouetted figure seen at the parents bedroom window have been?
June Bamber?
Sheila Caffell?
The Assassin?
Everything now known about by Essex police in connection with this matter leads to the inevitable conclusion that the person seen could only have been a reference to Sheila Caffell!
Remember, that when PC West had asked the operator to check the line to whf, how the operator had confirmed that the phone at the scene was 'off the hook', but that a dog could be heard to be barking? Well, maybe that was not 'Crispy' the shih Tzu dog that was barking alone inside the farmhouse, in all probability that was Sheila Mimicking a dogs bark in response to the dogs at the scene barking, both inside the farmhouse, and outside inside one of the sheds! When one of the dogs had started barking, or both of them, Sheila had took up the guantlet and started barking back at that dog, or both of the dogs!
It must have felt somewhat amusing to her, after she had attacked and killed everyone that whenever she barked, firstly 'Crispy' barked back in response, and this set off a chain reaction, whereby the other dog locked away in an outbuilding also appeared to join in on que!
Sheila must have convinced herself that she could communicate in this way with both dogs!
Hence...
Why, thereafter, she refused to use the Queen's English when communicating or in a conversation with the police who eventually turned up! She decided that she would only communicate with the police by barking like a dog, she believed that by taking this approach that she was conveying her responses to not just the police, but also to both dogs!
Nigel
"Maybe the 'Beige' BT phone was in the 'Parents bedroom' off the hook.
With Neville's blood on it.
The Police needed to make a call so they moved it , the 'Beige' BT phone, to the kitchen and cleaned it after use.
The BT Open line was actually picking up sounds in the 'Parents bedroom'...
Mike T
"In a nutshell, there exists numerous references in the police accounts, of a dog barking!
These were deliberately mentioned because the police believed that it was Sheila Mimicking a barking, or a howling or a whining dog! It was her way of letting them know that she was ready to bite them if they tried to enter the farmhouse! The barks, howls and whinings which Sheila was generating alerted the police that Sheila was alive inside the house, holes up somewhere with access to an arsenal of guns and ammunitions - so, the cops bided their time, hoping that Sheila might fall asleep!
Whilst ever there came a barking, a howling, or a whining sound from within the farmhouse itself, cops knew to keep themselves back!
But, everything took at turn for the better, it seemed, when by 5.25am, the firearms team were engaged in a conversation with a person from inside the farmhouse. It was a truly bizarre state of affairs, with the firearms team bellowing instructions and orders at Sheila to give herself up and to put down any weapons and walk out of the house! In response to most of these challenges two barks echoed back to the police, which appeared to come from the direction of the parents bedroom window, 'Whoof, whoof'..
'Go to the phone', and 'use the phone to communicate with us, please'?
Not surprisingly, these requests received no responses at all, not two 'whoofs', or one...
That was until 5.55am, when the state of the farmhouse phone mysteriously altered from being off the hook, to becoming engaged!
Nigel
"The BT open line tape is key, why is it under Pii?
LuminousWanderer has left the Blue forum. It seems after his interaction with me. Similar to David, he needs to 'man up'.
TomG left the Blue forum after interacting with me. He wasn't abusive, but used to deny saying things after I disagreed with him. It wasn't hard to quote his earlier posts that he had denied posting, as he only posted on one thread.
Nugs has just said LuminousWanderer 'seemed like a pretty sane poster' !
LuminousWanderer has left the Blue forum. It seems after his interaction with me. Similar to David, he needs to 'man up'.
TomG left the Blue forum after interacting with me. He wasn't abusive, but used to deny saying things after I disagreed with him. It wasn't hard to quote his earlier posts that he had denied posting, as he only posted on one thread.
Nugs has just said LuminousWanderer 'seemed like a pretty sane poster' !
Well yeah, compared to Nugs.
I am still shocked they are pretending Nigel is a real person. Even IF he was - he's posted death threats to the Bamber relatives.. What a joke.
LuminousWanderers aim was to find a way to show the conviction was unsafe.
Alternative questions put to him, he would say Bamber does not need to answer this to get a release. Although he did later give a Sheila scenario.
His posts and threads were long but didn't say much. Resulting in very low response rates.
It seems he's quickly given up trying to find a way in which the conviction is unsafe. Wisely, as Bamber hasn't found a way in the last 33 years.
@ Angela222
Thanks. I've just started a thread (awaiting moderation, but I hope it will appear shortly).
I have no idea about Bamber's culpability. My interest is in the narrow question of whether the Bamber convictions are legally safe. The questions I have included in the new thread are intended to help me narrow things down in my own mind.
Would the Forum administrators consider setting up a new sub-forum to discuss the case of Gary Dobson and Stephen Norris?
These two men were convicted of the murder of Stephen Lawrence, but there are said to be doubts about their convictions and the case is of great public interest.
Nigel's off again on the Blue forum.
Bring back LuminousWanderer.
Nigel only discusses the evidence with Mike.
His other posts & threads are just statements aimed at people involved in the case.
David must be wishing he could change back to hardcore guilter. But it's too late.
Unlike Susan who drifted half heartedly into guilt & innocence, David went from hardcore guilter to hardcore supporter. The only poster I know who has done this. No one has ever changed a hardcore stance 3 times.
Mike, Nigel, Nugs, Roch, Lookout & David are joined at the hip and in it for the long haul.
All crazy cowards IMO
"A coward lives in his own world, where reality is merely a passing phenomenon. He rationalizes other people’s mistakes towards him and is never in touch with reality. He takes in information and processes it in a way that only makes sense to him. https://www.enkirelations.com/signs-of-a-coward-guy.html 8((()*/
The BIGGEST coward (and Moron) of them ALL is of course MIKE TESCO!
Trudi Benjamin's HERO Mike Tesco writes today: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9383.msg437509.html#msg437509
GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD
Sheila believed that when God spoke, he must bark like a dog, or that if she barked like a dog that God would make the firearm officers understand her and no doubt she must have ammused herself knowing that the firearms officers, understood her intention and resolve, when she took on the voice of a dog..
DOG
GOD
DOG
GOD
DOG..
And NGB, Maggie, Lookout, David, Roch and co watch on and say nothing whilst Sheila Caffell is mocked in this way *&^^&
They are all as bad as one another as far as I'm concerned!
Mike Tesco displays all the signs of a psychopath imho. He's highly narcissist of that there is no doubt. His posts about himself are very telling and how he plays the victim. He's unable to take responsibility for his own actions. Thinks he's above the law. Numerous aliases, pathological lying. His apparent rages. Lack of remorse. All classic traits.
The DSM refers to it as [ censored word]ocial personality disorder. https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/[ censored word]ocial-personality-disorder-dsm--5-301.7-(f60.2)
"Disregard for and violation of others rights since age 15, as indicated by one of the seven sub features:
Failure to obey laws and norms by engaging in behavior which results in criminal arrest, or would warrant criminal arrest
Lying, deception, and manipulation, for profit or self-amusement,
Impulsive behavior
Irritability and aggression, manifested as frequently assaults others, or engages in fighting
Blatantly disregards safety of self and others,
A pattern of irresponsibility and
Lack of remorse for actions (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)
Comorbidity
The DSM-5 indicates that [ censored word]ocial Personality Disorder is comorbid with substance abuse disorder, and other personality disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).
The consensus is there is very little in the way of effective treatment for [ censored word]ocial Personality Disorder. Individuals with APD may have to be contained by the criminal justice system, through some combination of incapacitation (incarceration), supervision and monitoring (parole, probation, or house arrest), or informal monitoring by local law enforcement to contain their harmful behaviors to others to the greatest extent possible. Some research has shown that individuals with APD do feel degrees of empathy suggesting that at the very least some form of training may be possible (Meffer, Gazzola, den Boer, Bartells, 2013). There are also cases of individuals with APD converting to religion and finding strong conviction within themselves to reform and successfully integrate with society ("Confessions of a Christian Psychopath", 2011). The role of religion and spirituality as a possible treatment for APD is not well studied, and future research is warranted.
Incarceration may not be an effective deterrent to the [ censored word]ocial individual, as those with APD have difficulty learning from mistakes, are rigid in decision making, and are typically unresponsive to punishment (De Brito, Viding, Kumari, Blackwood, and Sheilagh, 2013). A primary reason that individuals with APD are often non responsive to punishment and deterrence is an inner belief system that views constraints and consequences as a rudimentary function of society, a group which they do not see themselves a part of. The [ censored word]ocial may see themselves as existing above or beyond society, and thus their existence need not be confined to society's limitations and restraints; and on the contrary, those limitations and restraints are best utilized when exploited to the full advantage of the individual. As a result, for many with APD, incarceration may only serve to reinforce their primary belief system and have little effect towards future deterrence.
The DSM- 5 as well as other sources note that individuals with APD may cease behavioral expression of their [ censored word]ocial belief system in their 40's (American Psychiatric Association, 2013) although this is inconclusive. Other sources argue that [ censored word]ocials become too emotionally battered from a long term resisting of society and accumulate physical injuries from a lifestyle of neglect of medical and dental care, untended injuries, and drug and alcohol abuse. This eventual emotional depletion may result in the [ censored word]ocial reducing destructive behavior or criminal activity simply due to being no longer physically capable. But even in this case, the individual will still retain an [ censored word]ocial belief system in their day to day dealings with others, and may hide their behavior better through practice effects- learning to be more subtle and not draw attention to themselves and risk arrest or other containment. A specific form of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) called CSC (Cognitive Self Change) based on Samenow and Yochelson's seminal work with offenders has documented marginal success at modifying the behavior of violent offenders, both [ censored word]ocial and otherwise (Barbour, 2013; Powell, & Sadler, n.d. ).
What's the betting this is the same moron who owns the jeremybamberforum
"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0
This is the same Mike Tescowski.
Expose the b........ ngb! It won't help Jeremy Bamber but it WILL make you feel a whole lot better 8((()*/
LuminousWanderer was just frustrated that I had ripped apart his 'Sheila scenario' & then provided a source regarding Nevill being shot 4 times upstairs, which destroyed his scenario further.
So focused on me, even creating a very abusive thread which was deleted. He will be banned if he behaves like that again, on either forum. However I rarely post on his threads.
To be fair other supporters focus on the poster if frustrated. David using his abusive images or 'gish gash' posts & Roch calling posters a 'tw..' as he did twice on Friday, or telling them to 'f--- off'.
What's the betting this is the same moron who owns the jeremybamberforum
"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0
Interesting though that the jeremybamberforum is down to around 10 posters a day and ngb has decided to bring this up. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9398.0.html
Ngb states: "I have not revealed what I know and others here have also maintained confidences, but frankly this character should be exposed."
Reminds me a bit of David's FEB (as Holly refers to it).
Why now? Why bring this up when the forums dead? And why keep turning a blind eye to the quite apparent psychopath Mike Tesco, and others?
It's clear David started the thread in order to take the heat off himself because Holly has further exposed his sneaky, irrational behaviour.
David, you should have listened to your dad and gone to the newspapers. Your credibility is nought!
Actions speak louder than words ngb, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows this. Will be interesting however to see where this all leads or whether it's another ploy; like David's FEB.
Not sure how slagging off PH will further the Jeremy Bamber fight. His influence on the Bamber case is almost non-existent. It does, of course, allow old feuds and grudges to be brought to the fore Almost like someone enjoys lighting the blue touch paper. This isn't the first time he's been dragged out of retirement, nor will it be the last. He's a handy tool I guess and some have learned how to use it to their best advantage!
So what's the back story on how ngb hooked up with Mike Tesko?
Does anyone know?
How did these 2 meet?
Did ngb know Mike Teskowski was a convicted fraudster with a criminal history spanning decades?
Did he know Mike Tesco was a highly disordered individual?
24th July 2017 - Poppy Ann Miller states:
This review is from: The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (Kindle Edition)
"Apart from the unnecessarily lengthy background to White House Farm which had little to do with the Bamber family, the book omits crucial points and full statements by friends and documented police evidence is simply reduced to hearsay. The account of the electrician being attacked by Sheila is dismissed as fiction - but it is a fact. The author appears to have had quite an in-depth conversation with the twins' father, Colin Caffell but no mention of his pending letter to Nevill Bamber on his concerns about Sheila's behaviour and the safety of their children; no mention of social workers reports of bruises, burns cuts and grazes on the boys, or statements from foster carers and teachers in the same vein - all omitted. The author shows her inexperience in mental health and social working practise in that she states that Social Workers arranged extra child care so that Sheila could go to work. This never was or is the case, children are removed from parents' care due to concerns for the children. Although Sheila's best friend Farhad Emami (Freddie) is cited, no mention is made of the fact that he made a statement confirming that he witnessed Sheila's violence, which left him terrified for his own safety and that of others to such an extent that he had to call Nevill who arranged for her admission to a psychiatric unit. Freddie made a statement to that effect but it was omitted from the hearing. I am only left wondering as to the authors motivation for writing the book %56&
There are quote a few rants from supporters involved in the CT on Amazon. Quite funny really!! I wonder if Poppy would like to post the statement from the (errr) electrician cuz no one else has been able to find it! If it exists, one of youy lot MUST have seen it and have access to it ......... post it and PROVE IT!
Poppy Ann Miller states:
"I was new to residential and no doubt naive having been thrown in the deep end but I could see that a number of staff appeared to have more ‘issues’ than the residents. My ‘supervisor’ was a trained nurse though had not worked in that role for several years and had no mental health training. Never-the-less I learnt a lot in my three years with them and have some fond memories of both staff and community members
I'd like to hear what Poppy Ann Miller knows about narcissism and psychopathy!
IMO, It's because of people like Ms Miller that our mental health service fails so many vulnerable individuals!
Shame on her with her self serving BS!
Her confirmation bias knows know bounds, as can be seen by her pathetic and pointless blogs!
24th July 2017 - Poppy Ann Miller states:
This review is from: The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (Kindle Edition)
"Apart from the unnecessarily lengthy background to White House Farm which had little to do with the Bamber family, the book omits crucial points and full statements by friends and documented police evidence is simply reduced to hearsay. The account of the electrician being attacked by Sheila is dismissed as fiction - but it is a fact. The author appears to have had quite an in-depth conversation with the twins' father, Colin Caffell but no mention of his pending letter to Nevill Bamber on his concerns about Sheila's behaviour and the safety of their children; no mention of social workers reports of bruises, burns cuts and grazes on the boys, or statements from foster carers and teachers in the same vein - all omitted. The author shows her inexperience in mental health and social working practise in that she states that Social Workers arranged extra child care so that Sheila could go to work. This never was or is the case, children are removed from parents' care due to concerns for the children. Although Sheila's best friend Farhad Emami (Freddie) is cited, no mention is made of the fact that he made a statement confirming that he witnessed Sheila's violence, which left him terrified for his own safety and that of others to such an extent that he had to call Nevill who arranged for her admission to a psychiatric unit. Freddie made a statement to that effect but it was omitted from the hearing. I am only left wondering as to the authors motivation for writing the book %56&
'which moves me onto the intelligence I received from my informant - about Ralph Neville! '
------------
I wonder Mike's informant is, that he mentioned today ?
There are quote a few rants from supporters involved in the CT on Amazon. Quite funny really!! I wonder if Poppy would like to post the statement from the (errr) electrician cuz no one else has been able to find it! If it exists, one of youy lot MUST have seen it and have access to it ......... post it and PROVE IT!
Poppy Ann Miller?
'which moves me onto the intelligence I received from my informant - about Ralph Neville! '
------------
I wonder who Mike's informant is, that he mentioned today ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEoY30cMvc
Why is her name linked to Poppy Meze? I ask because I recall seeing that name connected with a book on astrology many years ago.
Because it's the same person.
I wonder what the board of directors would have to say at the EPUT NHS?
https://eput.nhs.uk/newly-elected-governors-eput/
This BS needs exposing: How many of her colleagues support Jeremy Bamber?
"Newly Elected Governors for EPUT
July 5, 2017
Results from the recent Council of Governors elections, has been published by the Electoral Reform Services. There are 23 public Governors and three staff Governors for the newly created Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (EPUT).
This is the first Governor Elections since the merger between North Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (NEP) and South Essex Partnership University NHS Foundation Trust (SEPT).
Governors act as representatives for their constituencies and the public, hold the Trust to account and get involved in the development of health services in the county.
Sally Morris, Chief Executive of EPUT said: “Governors play a vital role in how we develop health services here in Essex. They hold us to account and represent the views of their constituents. As a newly formed Trust, it was important that we get the right governance arrangements in place as soon as possible. Congratulations to all the elected Governors. I look forward to working with you all, both staff as well as public Governors; you contribute to helping us deliver high quality care to the people of Essex.”
Both NEP and SEPT were providers of mental health, substance misuse services and a wide range of community based services. The Trusts merged to form EPUT on 1 April 2017.
The following have been elected as Governors for Mid and South Essex:
James Clarke
Poppy Ann Miller
The ESSEX press would have a field day if they learned about this!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1259.msg39522.html#msg39522
Offline Gemini
Junior Member
**
Posts: 52
HELLO EVERYONE
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:PM »
"Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading for the forum for sometime now and recently have been tempted to post, even it was to say some choice words to PoorBambi!!!! Some of you know me from the FB Innocent Page and I obviously firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent. I know the case pretty well having read several books and all the documents/statements posted. Not sure I can add anything intelligent to the debate but I will certainly try. I continue to learn something new everyday from the posts made and certainly think of it as valuable information for the most part. BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book. Thanks Tru
So Tru (Short for Trudi Benjamin?) says her hero is a man who "threatens to kill" JM and co *&^^&
And a forum crush on Jackie @)(++(*
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1696.msg52275.html#msg52275
"http://ww.wsd1.org/contacts/contacts.htm
"Not hard to find her on the internet. I wonder if she would be in the position she is now with convictions for robbery and cheque book fraud and without a tidy sum to set her up.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2580.msg80447.html#msg80447
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48100.html#msg48100
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48183.html#msg48183
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1710.msg52906.html#msg52906
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2599.msg81646.html#msg81646
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2062.0
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176
"No reply and maybe it wasn't the wisest choice but I agree that a major celeb might be a good thing. Especially since any credibility Bob Wofflechops added has sadly been wiped out!
"I think it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth. I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent. I bet they wish he would just shut up.
"Jeremy works on his case for hours and hours every day and I'm sure is angry but what good would it be if he fell apart and let the system eat him alive. He choses to fight and he has never given up. The justice system is against him and he has and will continue to do everything in his power to see his sentence over turned. Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help. Rant over :o
"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly". http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1319.msg40974.html#msg40974
Trudi Benjamin is also a Governor, of a high school.
http://www.qehs.co/about-qehc/
"Trudi is a ‘stay at home’ mum raising her four children and two step-children, the youngest a pupil at QEHS.
Previously living in Canada for 10 years Trudi played an active role in PTA’s and acted as PTA Treasurer 2010-2012.
Trudi trained as a Person Centred Counsellor and worked as a Bereavement Counsellor in the early 2000’s.
Since returning from Canada in 2012, Trudi re-entered education gaining her Diploma in Higher Education with the Open University and The Effective Practice Certificate in Youth Justice. She has also worked as a volunteer Community Referral Order Panel member for Hereford YOS and trained in Restorative Justice practices.
Currently Trudi is in her third year of an Undergraduate Degree in Law and the Director of JB Campaign Ltd, a not for profit limited company set up with dual aims of raising funds and awareness of an historic miscarriage of justice. Through this work she has developed many multi-media marketing skills and strategies and has gained public speaking experience. She has personal interest in Restorative Justice Practices in dispute resolution and Human Rights.
http://www.qehs.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Governor-Backgrounds-v2-November-2017.docx
"and has gained public speaking experience" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
Oh yes she has
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1571.msg48103.html#msg48103
Trudie supports Mike writing a book on the subject.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1571.msg48103.html#msg48103
Trudie supports Mike writing a book on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEoY30cMvc
I wonder if David is near completion on his book.
So what's the back story on how ngb hooked up with Mike Tesko?
Does anyone know?
How did these 2 meet?
Did ngb know Mike Teskowski was a convicted fraudster with a criminal history spanning decades?
Did he know Mike Tesco was a highly disordered individual?
Trudie didn't post much on the Blue forum. She was already doing outside work on behalf of Bamber.
Roch, Buddy, Mike & Jackie were posting at the same time as Trudie. Bamber would have told her straight away she would have to break away from the Blue forum if they were going to work closely together. Or she quickly realised this herself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InEoY30cMvc
Ngb replies to Gemini aka Trudi Benjamin:
"Mike's case would make an excellent TV documentary."
Did you see that Adam?
"An excellent TV documentary"
It seems LW has migrated to IA. Although LW does claim to he neutral.
What is IA ?
Thanks. He obviously didn't like the Blue & Red forums.
He/she still has an account here so may wander back over.
What a chancer?
http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/16178432.Convicted_killer_asks_for_evidence_to_be_disclosed_to_allow_for_third_appeal/#comments-anchor
In a letter sent from HMP Wakefield, a Category A prison where Bamber is serving a full life tariff, he said:
"Once the CPS formally disclose these documents it is an admission Essex Police took two silencers to the lab for examination, both had areas of blood staining on them and both were ruled irrelevant to the inquiry.
“Sue Hemming has to conceded to the Criminal Cases Reviews Commission the CPS can no longer sustain my conviction and my case must be fast tracked to the Court of Appeal. The CPS cannot sustain my conviction now the second silencer should have been known to the jury.”
Ha, ha! I thought they had NEW evidence to prove his innocence?
What a chancer! Watch psycho Mike Tesco jump on the band wagon.
http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/16178432.Convicted_killer_asks_for_evidence_to_be_disclosed_to_allow_for_third_appeal/#comments-anchor
In a letter sent from HMP Wakefield, a Category A prison where Bamber is serving a full life tariff, he said:
"Once the CPS formally disclose these documents it is an admission Essex Police took two silencers to the lab for examination, both had areas of blood staining on them and both were ruled irrelevant to the inquiry.
“Sue Hemming has to conceded to the Criminal Cases Reviews Commission the CPS can no longer sustain my conviction and my case must be fast tracked to the Court of Appeal. The CPS cannot sustain my conviction now the second silencer should have been known to the jury.”
"However, Bamber is contesting the sound moderator evidence and is calling for disclosure of information.
Bamber, 57, says there is evidence more than one sound moderator was examined and the findings were merged - and as such contaminated - before being presented at trial.
What a chancer! Watch psycho Mike Tesco jump on the band wagon.
http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/16178432.Convicted_killer_asks_for_evidence_to_be_disclosed_to_allow_for_third_appeal/#comments-anchor
In a letter sent from HMP Wakefield, a Category A prison where Bamber is serving a full life tariff, he said:
"Once the CPS formally disclose these documents it is an admission Essex Police took two silencers to the lab for examination, both had areas of blood staining on them and both were ruled irrelevant to the inquiry.
“Sue Hemming has to conceded to the Criminal Cases Reviews Commission the CPS can no longer sustain my conviction and my case must be fast tracked to the Court of Appeal. The CPS cannot sustain my conviction now the second silencer should have been known to the jury.”
Ha, ha! I thought they had NEW evidence to prove his innocence?
I posted about this recently:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=468.msg454312#msg454312
It has as much chance of success as David's 'FEB' ie ZERO.
At the 2002 appeal MT tried to argue the hand swabs were swapped and the appeal judges simply batted it away:
Points 175 - 213
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
What is the biggest piece of released & accepted evidence that makes you believe Bamber is innocent ?
Supporters spend most of their time disputing the evidence that makes him guilty.
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted? Released and accepted by whom?
I believe JB innocent based on my own research. If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty!
I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal. Afaik these points originate from my research. This excludes:
- The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
- Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
- Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot
I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s). He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted? Released and accepted by whom?
I believe JB innocent based on my own research. If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty!
I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal. Afaik these points originate from my research. This excludes:
- The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
- Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
- Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot
I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s). He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.
Released and accepted is June was shot 7 times.
Released and not accepted is Nevill called Essex Police.
Julie signing NOTW deal pre trial/verdict does not make Bamber innocent.
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted? Released and accepted by whom?
I believe JB innocent based on my own research. If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty!
I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal. Afaik these points originate from my research. This excludes:
- The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
- Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
- Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot
I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s). He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.
I think it's more likely June sustained 8 gsw's whereby 1 was a graze only wound independent of the other 7 and accounts for spent bullet DRH/5. This also accounts for the 12 casings found in the main bedroom and landing excl. the 2 that pertain to SC. At trial Fletcher agreed with Lawson this was the case through a process of elimination.
I don't think there's any evidence NB called EP.
No it doesn't but it does undermine her testimony.
My 10 points don't necessarily make JB innocent. But it's not about innocence is it? At trial it's 'not guilty' or 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt'. At appeal it's about finding 'fresh evidence' which had jurors heard at trial may have caused them to return a different verdict rendering the conviction unsafe.
I'm still waiting for Holly to reply to my various posts including those regarding Kerry Daynes.
Holly may be interested to learn I am in the process of emailing Michael Spurr.
I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s). He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.
No it doesn't! I get the sense you have once again been taken in by others and/or you are deluded
I follow the evidence Holly, no more no less
I'll be spending less time posting due to taking things forward in the real world.
KD is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy
Stephanie why do you have to resort to insults when anyone disagrees with you? Why can't you just say I disagree and here's why instead of resorting to 'I've been taken in' and 'I'm deluded'? If you're unable to exchange posts with me on a civil basis I will simply stop responding.
Read the CoA doc and the judge's comments and I think you will find if it can be proved JM signed her deal with NOTW before the end of the trial her evidence will be ruled inadmissible. It doesn't bother me one iota either way. It's not neccessary for a successful appeal.
As you know Holly, Bamber will jump at any opportunity presented to him as he has no options left available to him.
@)(++(*
Surely Holly even you can see how daft this sounds?
I disagree. I think he's very much dictated to by the CT specifically Sarah Hanover who I think is very controlling and alienates a lot of sensible people who are actually able to contribute something worthwhile.
The proof will be in the pudding.
Forensics are looking good though.
I disagree. I think he's very much dictated to by the CT specifically Sarah Hanover who I think is very controlling and alienates a lot of sensible people who are actually able to contribute something worthwhile.
How can Sarah Hanover or any other supporter for that matter alienate Jeremy Bamber?
Please provide evidence for your assertions
I didn't say she alienates JB I said she alienates a lot of sensible people who are able to contribute something worthwhile. Perhaps alienates is too strong a word but if others come along who are not the type to be controlled and dictated to they will not be embraced as such. And yes I do have evidence but I'm not prepared to divulge it.
It is people like Sarah Hanover who are the victims and have been alienated by Jeremy Bambers actions, not the other way round Holly!
The Campaign Team are also victims blinded by Jeremy Bamber! Some of these victims have been groomed and psychologically abused for years on end but remain in denial for reasons only known to them.
Your use of the word "controlling" is misplaced and misguided; the one and only controller is Jeremy Bamber!
Holly what you are posting is EXACTLY like what was once said about me!
Your belief is again misplaced.
I take on board your use of the word "alienate may be too strong a word" but in reality Sarah Hanover and the others have no power over Bamber whatsoever.
Anyone can email or write to Bamber and tell him anything.
Anyone can visit him, following approval etc
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf. They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe. I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off. What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?
I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.
I've had contact with JB and limited contact with CT. IMO JB is very much controlled and easily led.
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf. They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe. I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off. What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?
I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.
I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.
I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.
I'll be spending less time posting due to taking things forward in the real world.
KD is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy
All personal comments will be removed?
You'll be pleased to hear Holly I shall be addressing this point in my email to Michael Spurr
"Psychopathy?
The recent TV programme on Sky three contained testimony by Ms Kerry Daynes, a psychologist, who misled the viewers into thinking that she had met Jeremy Bamber, had read reports on him, or carried out a diagnosis. She said that he 'showed all the traits of a psychopath'. This is not the case and Ms Daynes’ testimony is incorrect and her remarks are pure fallacy. To read more on Jeremy's psychologist reports click here
This programme made assumptions based on prejudicial witness accounts. Jeremy had homosexual friends, as you or I would today, except that in 1985 if you mixed with 'gay' people you clearly were one. By using Kerry Daynes misleading account of Jeremy ‘wanting to attract attention and this being a trait of a psychopath’, Sky have tricked the audience into believing that this was NOT an attack on Jeremy's sexuality but merely a reflection of psychopathic behaviour. Their argument is not valid, there is no psychopathy, therefore, the implied sexual behaviour of Jeremy was merely normal, and certainly so by today's standards.
As Jeremy said, Kerry Daynes is not a member of the Healthcare Professions Council or the British Psychological Society, nor has she answered letters sent to her business address. Why did Kerry Daynes not state clearly that she had not examined Jeremy Bamber and why did Ofcom not take into account psychological reports that Jeremy was not a psychopath? Their argument appears to be based on this appalling and misleading 'guesswork'. The ruling not only breeds hatred of minority groups but makes a mockery of equality expected within the broadcasting standards of the 21st century. Jeremy's sexuality had no bearing on his conviction and is therefore not in the public interest and never was.
If you would like to air your views on the TV Programme 'Killing Mum and Dad' which was aired on Tuesday 14th September 2010 at 9pm (and also on subsequent days) please contact: Viewer Relations, Sky Services Ltd, PO Box 43, Livingston, West Lothian, EH54 7DD.
You might also want to complain to Ofcom the TV regulator about the programme's misleading content and their subsequent prejudicial ruling. Yesterday's ruling on the programme by Ofcom can be read here (page 43 onwards). Clearly, Ofcom and Sky are suggesting that it is acceptable to ridicule the sexuality of someone, along with their gender. The content of the programme was not reflective of Jeremy Bamber's conviction. The programme presented witnesses whose accounts showed prejudice and it is these foundations upon which the judgments have been made.
Jeremy says:
“As a high profile case, a category ‘A’ prisoner, and a whole life tariff prisoner I have undergone a number of psychological assessments by twenty seven different psychologists. Each carried out numerous tests on me and some interviewed me for twenty hours or more over many weeks.
The most recent assessment of me was carried out in 2009 by Professor Vincent Egan a Chartered Clinical psychologist and senior lecturer in forensic psychology at Leicester University. He was provided with my complete psychological file and all my medical records. He also interviewed me, and I completed various psychological tests before he wrote his report on me.
His conclusion is that I am not a psychopath. During the last quarter of a century and twenty seven different psychologists, not a single one of these experts has concluded that I show any traits consistent with psychopathy.
On the ‘Hare’ psychopathy test it was concluded that 95% of the population show more psychopathic traits than I do. I have also had 3 P.C.L.R tests that are designed specifically to reveal psychopathy and all 3 concluded the same, I am not a psychopath. Nor do I have any personality disorder.
Interestingly, I have just received a letter from the British Psychological Society. MS Kerry Daynes is no longer a member of the society and they have suggested that I should complain to the health professions council, curiously, they confirm she is not registered with them either. Mail sent to her address is returned as 'gone away'.”
Remember that prisoners, particularly those convicted of murder, are very easy targets to make up lies about. Jeremy needs people on the outside to make a stand for him.
I'm not really sure what you mean by released and accepted? Released and accepted by whom?
I believe JB innocent based on my own research. If I just sat around reading/listening to other 'supporters' I would probably think him guilty!
I believe I have 10 rock solid points for a successful appeal. Afaik these points originate from my research. This excludes:
- The claim JM signed NOTW deal pre trial/verdict.
- Criticism of trial/appeal lawyers
- Criticism of FSS particularly Fletcher and Elliot
I'm about to write to JB outlining my proposals to take things forward which will be on my terms not his/CT's/any lawyer(s) he may have working for him currently/or any other person(s). He can take it or leave it as he sees fit.
I think it's more likely June sustained 8 gsw's whereby 1 was a graze only wound independent of the other 7 and accounts for spent bullet DRH/5. This also accounts for the 12 casings found in the main bedroom and landing excl. the 2 that pertain to SC. At trial Fletcher agreed with Lawson this was the case through a process of elimination.
I don't think there's any evidence NB called EP.
No it doesn't but it does undermine her testimony.
My 10 points don't necessarily make JB innocent. But it's not about innocence is it? At trial it's 'not guilty' or 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt'. At appeal it's about finding 'fresh evidence' which had jurors heard at trial may have caused them to return a different verdict rendering the conviction unsafe.
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf. They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe. I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off. What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?
Interesting though that the jeremybamberforum is down to around 10 posters a day and ngb has decided to bring this up. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9398.0.html
Ngb states: "I have not revealed what I know and others here have also maintained confidences, but frankly this character should be exposed."
Reminds me a bit of David's FEB (as Holly refers to it).
Why now? Why bring this up when the forums dead? And why keep turning a blind eye to the quite apparent psychopath Mike Tesco, and others?
It's clear David started the thread in order to take the heat off himself because Holly has further exposed his sneaky, irrational behaviour.
David, you should have listened to your dad and gone to the newspapers. Your credibility is nought!
Actions speak louder than words ngb, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows this. Will be interesting however to see where this all leads or whether it's another ploy; like David's FEB.
No one is forcing the CT to supposedly act on JB's behalf. They are a group of 6 females and 2 males I believe. I'm assuming they plan together events like graveside reading and bake-off. What sort of people could ever think these ideas are good ones to be acted upon?
I sometimes think they see JB as a caged pet.
I didn't say she alienates JB I said she alienates a lot of sensible people who are able to contribute something worthwhile. Perhaps alienates is too strong a word but if others come along who are not the type to be controlled and dictated to they will not be embraced as such. And yes I do have evidence but I'm not prepared to divulge it.
The creepy campaign to free Jeremy Bamber
"Bamber’s defence has always been inherently implausible. Even Bob Woffinden, a veteran journalist who specialises in miscarriages of justice and who spent 20 years arguing for Bamber’s release, bravely wrote last year that he has changed his mind and is now sure of Bamber’s guilt. In running his campaign from his maximum security prison cell, said Woffinden, ‘Bamber still has all the cunning and ingenuity that he displayed in planning the crime.’ The calls to overturn his conviction are a disgrace, based on nothing more than lies, distractions and hollow theorising. The real affront to our justice system would be another pointless appeal for this monstrous killer. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2012/04/lack-of-appeal/
See Andrew Green's email to me http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457498#msg457498
"I don't want to take sides in any dispute that doesn't concern me directly, but you do seem to have alienated a lot of people who would otherwise be willing to give support to Simon, simply because they want to see an innocent person exonerated.
What you are witnessing Holly is what Jeremy Bamber has created. It is he who has alienated Sarah Hanover and others. From the email posted on the previous page you can see quite clearly her paranoia. This isn't normal behaviour; it's how victims of abuse behave. It's what Bamber has turned her into. She really believes all the lies he's told her. She's clearly got trust issues; again caused by Bambers mind games. She's been brainwashed.
Dr Andrew Green's email to me was total BS and told me all I needed to know about him. I couldn't possibly have stopped anyone from contacting Hall but people like Andrew Green are also abusers. They use what they perceive to be their power to do and say as they please and they target individuals in vulnerable situations.
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/law/staff/agreen
Do you think the Bristol Innocence Project has any credibility after what occurred with Simon Hall?
Do you think the Bristol Innocence Project has any credibility after what occurred with Simon Hall?
Just to put the record straight, Mark’s father was not chopped up. This was alleged by the prosecution but was retracted at trial as it had been found to be entirely untrue. Of course that thought had by then been implanted in the minds of the jury. Manipulation!!!
Manipulation!!!
Just to put the record straight, Mark’s father was not chopped up. This was alleged by the prosecution but was retracted at trial as it had been found to be entirely untrue. Of course that thought had by then been implanted in the minds of the jury. Manipulation!!!
I suspect this is second nature for Mark
https://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/dangerous-mind-games-how-psychopaths-manipulate-and-deceive/
Just like it is for Bamber
But the innocent projects and miscarriages of justice organisations won't tell you that because they are only interested in technicalities of law and promoting themselves; furthering their careers etc
Why would psychopathy matter to these people?
And what's the betting Mark wrote the following https://innocent.org.uk/2016/10/16/there-is-little-evidence-as-to-precisely-what-happened-the-murder-of-samuel-alexander/
Daisy, Mark is having you on.
If you re-read much of what you have posted on his behalf; his guilt (and character) is laid bare for all to see.
I will comment on the Mark Alexander thread but we have to bear in mind that there are only two people who know the truth - the victim and the perpetrator. The victim can’t speak as he is dead and the perpetrator may or may not be Mark. None of us know as we weren’t there. There are still many unanswered questions in this complex case.
Here's what Trudi Benjamin retweeted on 26th April 2018
"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68?lang=en
Here's what Trudi Benjamin retweeted on 26th April 2018
"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68?lang=en
Thanks for posting that Stephanie as Trudi Benjamin has blocked me being the coward she is.
Here's what Trudi Benjamin retweeted on 26th April 2018
"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68?lang=en
Thanks for posting that Stephanie as Trudi Benjamin has blocked me being the coward she is.
She is right, the report did conclude that - however, it was before Julie came forward and before forensic tests were returned. If the police wanted to frame Bamber, surely they would have roped Kenneally in on the act and had the report exonerate Sheila?
Trudi is not right though Caroline. We all know the police initially believed Sheila was responsible. We know Julie eventually came forward.
Trudi is attempting to go back to the beginning in order to show an innocent Bamber. As you pointed out; this cannot erase what has gone on since. I'm repeating what you posted recently.
Trudi is attempting to mislead
"Report by DCI Kenneally on 06.09.85: This report has never been disclosed and is important as it concluded all the evidence suggested Sheila Caffell killed the family. Not her brother #JeremyBamber who was told he will spend the rest of his live in prison: (link: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter) jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter
It's deceptive
Why should the report be disclosed? So that Bamber can play his games for another 3 decades?
Wrong case to push for disclosure on IMO. There's nothing withheld that will help Bamber. All it is doing is giving him more time to carry on his charade.
She is right about Kenneally's conclusions, but as I said, this is before Julie Mugford came forward and the results of various tests were compiled. The reason it's never been fully disclosed is presumably because it is no longer relevant given that it was complied before further evidence was obtained.
After complaints from RWB to ACC Simpson, ACS Mike Ainsley (the very people that Roch and others believe to be at the heart of the conspiracy), instructed Kenneally to compile said report - his conclusions were murder/suicide and that Sheila was responsible. This was after RWB made his complaint but before Julie came forward. If these top brass were intending on framing Bamber (for whatever reason) then why instruct the report in the first place but having done so, it would have been the perfect opportunity to make sure the results of said report implicated Bamber. That's not what happened and it doesn't make sense for them to leak such conclusions and then change tack after Julie made her statement - it makes them look like fools, which is why the investigation was criticised.
She is right about Kenneally's conclusions, but as I said, this is before Julie Mugford came forward and the results of various tests were compiled. The reason it's never been fully disclosed is presumably because it is no longer relevant given that it was complied before further evidence was obtained.
After complaints from RWB to ACC Simpson, ACS Mike Ainsley (the very people that Roch and others believe to be at the heart of the conspiracy), instructed Kenneally to compile said report - his conclusions were murder/suicide and that Sheila was responsible. This was after RWB made his complaint but before Julie came forward. If these top brass were intending on framing Bamber (for whatever reason) then why instruct the report in the first place but having done so, it would have been the perfect opportunity to make sure the results of said report implicated Bamber. That's not what happened and it doesn't make sense for them to leak such conclusions and then change tack after Julie made her statement - it makes them look like fools, which is why the investigation was criticised.
Great post btw Caroline but will the supporters listen to reason; that is the question?
Thanks Steph!
When the bear no longer sh*ts in the woods and the Pope converts to Jediism - maybe then, but only 'maybe' @)(++(*
I wonder if David's medication is to curtail hallucinations:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9397.msg437919.html#msg437919
"No problem Mike.
I take medications myself. But I stay away from Alcohol.
Whenever I need a boost I watch and listen to motivational videos like this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW3eatIipjg
Gets me really pumped up"
This might explain his FEB and thinking he can see a difference in LM/RM between June and SC along with defence wounds to adult victims and bloodstains to SC's feet all of which went unnoticed by police and pathologists.
Surely it brings into question 'supporters' case knowledge?
I've posted loads of times the report was produced before JM's testimony, the silencer and hand swabs. There may be other things too but these are aspects that readily spring to mind.
The report probably states things like all doors and windows secured from within and senior officers were satisfied with murder/suicide.
Anything incriminating will have been destroyed along with physical exhibits.
Thanks Steph!
When the bear no longer sh*ts in the woods and the Pope converts to Jediism - maybe then, but only 'maybe' @)(++(*
It brings into question Jeremy Bamber's guilt. That is all
How does a report by senior officers saying a review points to SC bring into question JB's guilt?
Most will recall a spokesperson was appointed for the McCanns shortly after MM's disappearance. The spokesperson, Clarence Mitchell, was at one time a BBC journalist.
The advanatage of a professional spokesperson is that they can ensure the right messages are getting out into the public domain. It's not perfect but it's a huge help.
In JB's case pre and post trial the media had a field day. Whether you believe JB guilty or innocent how the hell does a 24 year old farmer deal with the media who simply want to sell maximum papers with minimum input?
Post trial the defence lawyers hung around long enough to see through the first failed appeal based on what it considered to be an unfair summing up by the trial judge. Thereafter the case has gone from pillar to post with all sorts of characters involved. Most well intentioned and honest. Some dishonest. And others incompetent.
- A variety of lawyers most of whom have been incompetent and negligent on a breathtaking scale
- Mike Tesko who once acted as JB's McKenzie friend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKenzie_friend
- Convicted fraudster and bogus lawyer Giovanni Di Stefano
- Andrew Hunter former Tory MP
- CT/Trudi Benjamin with the disastrous 'Bake-Off' and graveside reading
- To coin a phrase from puglove 'the bird off her tits on sherry' @)(++(*
With no continuity over case management and all manner of people involved with the media is it surprising JB's case is a complete mess?!
Minority groups? @)(++(* Is that mass murders, psychopaths or whole life tariff inmates? (Incidentally, this err 'minority group' has earned two more members!).
His account of his psychological assessment history is also misleading and he knows that! Why the need to mislead?
I see Maggie has posted in reply to Steve_uk
Posts: 13393
Re: Do Anti-Bamber Posters Have Secret Motives?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 01:38 PM »
Quote from: Steve_uk on Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Well we all agree on something.
"Of course we do. Colin was a victim as much as anyone. He showed tremendous courage and fortitude. One reason why I am so shocked that JM stayed a weekend in his flat with JB supposedly supporting him when she later claimed she had known Jenemy was the killer.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9373.msg437322.html#msg437322
Probably for the same reason why I organised Hall's funeral. Maggie again shows her complete and utter lack of comprehension or understanding with regards what men like this do to their victims and the cognitive dissonance sufferered following such an experience.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7TO3aMgNs
Maggie suffers from a selective memory imo
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7980.msg379294.html#msg379294
"Hi Adam,
I do believe a cold blooded murderer has to have some kind of personality disorder, many have been abused as children themselves. It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo.
To me the main action is to keep the rest of society safe from such damaged and dangerous individuals so I am up to a point in agreement with Steve's suggestion of a safe island for such people.
The question here is why is Maggie focusing on JM's supposed wrong doings? The term "flying monkies" springs to mind.
7. Cognitive Dissonance
This one involves look within. When a psychopath enters your life, you’ll notice an intense and ever-increasing sense of dread and self-doubt. Your brain will struggle to reconcile the “perfect” person from the beginning, with the inappropriate behavior you’re starting to see more regularly. That’s because that perfect person never actually existed. It was a persona, created just for you. This is the hardest thing for our minds and hearts to understand.
With a psychopath, you’re always the bad one. Even though they lie, cheat, manipulate, steal, and con—you’re the one with the problem. Psychopaths have this innate ability to make you feel like there’s something wrong with you for recognizing that there’s something off about them.https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/top-7-ways-to-spot-a-sociopath-psychopath-or-narcissist.342/
5. Covert Backstabbing and Betrayal
Psychopaths devalue and replace others at the drop of a hat. Although you probably experienced an instant connection of trust and excitement with them, you’ll come to realize they can forge that bond with anyone. After once declaring you better than all the “crazy” people in their life, they’ll go running back to those very same people and declare you crazy. Psychopaths have no loyalty, no attachment, and no love. They leave behind a trail of destruction, and they blame their victims for it every time.
6. Turning People Against Each Other
When a psychopath enters the picture, you’ll find yourself disliking people you’ve never even met. Psychopaths are constantly whispering poison and gossip into everyone’s ears, making each person feel jealous and suspicious of the others. But they do so under a guise of innocence, using pity stories and pseudo-concern to warp your perception. Psychopaths want people distracted and in constant competition for their attention, so they seem in high-demand at all times.
Julie Mugford was GROOMED by Jeremy Bamber http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/grooming Grooming is the predatory act of maneuvering another individual into a position that makes them more isolated, dependent, likely to trust, and more vulnerable to abusive behavior
And Maggie yet again displays her hypocrisy. "It's often a 'chicken and egg' situation i.e.. nature or nurture and very difficult to sit in judgement imo.
She now chooses to not sit in judgement of Bamber but has no problem whatsoever judging JM! Yet again, pathetic and indeed shameful and clearly lacking insight.
She flits between the two and is now an apparant fence sitter? This is what she states today:
"As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry. I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths. I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9381.msg437407.html#msg437407
My opinion, Maggie isn't being honest. She appears unable to be honest through fear of upsetting certain members of the blue forum. Her position as a forum moderator appears to bring her some kind of control. She has a tendency for favouritism and seems to turn on any member who doesn't support Bamber and becomes irrational towards anyone who draws to her attention the error of her ways. Bottom line, she appears unable to admit when she is in the wrong.
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths. If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling? Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral. *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths. If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling? Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral. *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths. If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling? Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral. *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255
Maggie is at it again I see:
"She 'lied' by pretending JB was innocent, staying with him at Colin's flat after the deaths. If she knew Jeremy Bamber was guilty at that time which aparrently she did then she was highly devious and lied by her actions. How can you not find her action appalling? Colin had lost his two beloved boys, JB and JM go to stay with him no doubt supposedly to support and comfort him. If JB is guilty JM knowingly chose to play along with Bamber and deceive Colin. in my book that's living a lie and Amaral. *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438255.html#msg438255
Maggie, and others, who choose to continuinely publicly abuse Julie Mugford, are ultimately accomplices of Jeremy Bamber's and his quite apparent pattern of coercive controlling behaviour towards JM.
It should be reminded that Jeremy Bamber is serving a full life sentence for mass murder. Julie Mugford is not!
Whilst Maggie bleats on about others treating people like "second class citizens" she has no problem treating Julie Mugford, and others, in this manner. Pot and kettle spring to mind. *&^^&
She states: "it's so disgusting to treat people this way as though they were second class citizens.
This: "The wholend thing is disgusting. Saying 'sorry' is not enough these are human tragedies. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9410.msg438281.html#msg438281
And this: "If Julie knew JB was the murderer and stayed at Colin"s flat commiserating with him about the death of his boys then she should not be mentioned in the dame breath either. I cannot see how anyone can excuse such behavour. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9408.msg438220.html#msg438220
Bamber would have thought Julie would not retract on her first WS she gave on the 7th August.
He would have warned her not to while simultaneously telling her he was 'watertight' & impressing her with holidays & gifts.
It would have been Bamber's decision to see Colin Caffell. Julie going along because she was Bamber's girlfriend. Simultaneously she was getting ready to approach the police.
Bamber would have thought Julie would not retract on her first WS she gave on the 7th August.
He would have warned her not to while simultaneously telling her he was 'watertight' & impressing her with holidays & gifts.
The Court and many of us have seen the intercepted letter Jeremy Bamber attempted to send Julie Mugford Adam. It's in the public domain, on the blue forum! I can't find the letter here?
None of us know how she actually felt at that time as she has yet to speak openly about it but that doesn't mean she won't!
Maggie is a moderator of the blue forum and as such is fully aware of the numerous threats made towards ALL the victims in this case and other cases I might add.
ModMaggie doesn't care what's posted about the relatives and has been as guilty as anyone in the past for pathetic bitchy comments against them, particularly towards AE.
No number of negative comments towards Julie will ever change anything, the case is more complex than those who bleat on about JM and the NOTW will ever be able to comprehend.
Bit more than negative comment IMO
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=17.msg459258#msg459258
Actually, yeah I think it's fair to say they're worse than negative. There is a jealous streak throughout the comments towards Julie, I'll never understand why.
Actually, yeah I think it's fair to say they're worse than negative. There is a jealous streak throughout the comments towards Julie, I'll never understand why.
Goatboy I have thought about this and maybe she made up a story (she is after all a liar and actress re her behaviour after the murders) and never realised the full consequences of her actions. Once she had started she set the ball rolling.
She made it clear how jealous she was and that is a dangerous trait.
I have had long conversations with Jeremy and mentioned Mugford many times and he doesn't seem to hate her at all which surprises me but he did tell me when he wanted to split with Mugford she went mad because her mothers husband used to treat his wife very badly (violence) and Jeremy had put a stop to it by having words with him.
Mugford said to Jeremy if he wasn't around anymore the trouble would start again.
Jeremy Bamber is skating on thin ice with regards his coercive controlling pattern of behaviour towards Julie Mugford. He may be imprisoned but the authorities can still intervene and impose sanctions on him and indeed his supporters if need be.
"Your abuser will be guilty of the offence of coercive control if
he is personally connected to you, and
his behaviour has had a serious effect on you, and
your abuser knew or ought to have known that his behaviour would have a serious effect on you.
http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/#What%20is%20coercive%20control?
"Julie, now 36, said: "I thought this was long in the past. The last few weeks have been a nightmare. As far as I am concerned nothing has changed - I sincerely believe he is guilty. Do I stand by my original story? Yes, absolutely. I always assumed he would be in jail for life.
"And while I fully accept that new forensic techniques could throw new light on the case I still believe he is guilty. He has a right to appeal, that is the law. It is just very hard for me to accept.
"At this stage the appeal process is so sketchy that I have no idea what is going on."
A friend added: "It is somethingJulie has never really recovered from. Ultimately it was her evidence that put him behind bars and it is something she still has nightmares about. She still grieves for his family and wonders if she could have averted the murders by telling the police about his scheming beforehand."
Julie now fears she could be called to give evidence at the appeal - and last week she consulted Canadian lawyers for advice.
"She dreads having to face Bamber again in court. And she's afraid he could come after her and her family if he is freed. It's tragic. She has been so happy here in Canada."
I think it's shameless the way the CT have latched on to the case of Liam Allan and are using his name and face to promote Bamber! I guess they think they are being subtle - they AREN'T! Think he's been through enough FFS!
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/dec/19/police-non-disclosure-should-lead-to-reform
It would be interesting to know if he is aware of Bamber. Any idea who's representing him?
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435
Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words
Jackie is the 'D' for Doris? 8(0(*
I think it's shameless the way the CT have latched on to the case of Liam Allan and are using his name and face to promote Bamber! I guess they think they are being subtle - they AREN'T! Think he's been through enough FFS!
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/dec/19/police-non-disclosure-should-lead-to-reform
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435
Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words
Jackie is the 'D' for Doris? 8(0(*
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435
Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words
Jackie is the 'D' for Doris? 8(0(*
This has to be one of the best from Jackie(D)elicious:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438435.html#msg438435
Ngb is right. I think the campaign team seem to treat Jeremy as their property.
Some people have helped Jeremy so much financially and with their precious time and it seems as soon as anyone shows independently they can help Jeremy overturn his conviction they are frozen out
It’s unacceptable behaviour and unbelievable that they can play with Jeremy’s life the way they do
There are no words
Jackie is the 'D' for Doris? 8(0(*
Do you think the Campaign Team put the idea into Peter Tatchells head?
Maybe someone should contact Peter Tatchell here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/ and explain how he has been manipulated?
No, personally, I would be surprised if Liam Allan knows his face is on Bamber's official site. In my opinion it seems to be a clever manipulation of Liam's story using HIS face to legitimate Bambers cause.
Daisy continues:
"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests. He demanded I send him £4,000. Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials. He told me to mind my own business and just pay up. He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan. He was very threatening and abusive. When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim." I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call. For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him. He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks. He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him. I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him. I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend. This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy. I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have? Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside. I feel desperately sorry for him.
I think it was Jeremy Bamber who wanted Daisy to pay for the tests NOT him and the campaign team. I think he uses the CT for leverage
I will go further and say I imagine Bamber treats each and every one of the CT members as he has done with Daisy but they either make excuses for him, are serving their own agendas, or are too afraid to speak out.
Well done to Daisy for speaking out 8((()*/
Do you think the Campaign Team put the idea into Peter Tatchells head?
Maybe someone should contact Peter Tatchell here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/ and explain how he has been manipulated?
Presumably in relation to Trudi Benjamin, Lookout states:
"At least the woman has put her money where her mouth is which is more than anyone else has done to set the ball rolling for Jeremy.
NGB replies with: "Not quite right lookout. Others have also made serious efforts.
NGB then states:
"There have been a number of people who have at different times contributed a lot in terms of both time and effort and also money. Some have publicly supported JB, others have supported behind the scenes. Unfortunately jealousy and petty internal politics sometimes gets in the way. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9380.msg438465.html#msg438465
There have been a number of people who Jeremy Bamber has conned and jealousy and petty internal politics has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
The petty and jealous individual behind it ALL is Jeremy Bamber!
NGB was conned by Bamber he just doesn't have the guts to openly admit so on the forum he moderates and like some of Bambers victims before him, he attempts to make excuses and blame others in the hope it will deflect from the facts.
Do you think the Campaign Team put the idea into Peter Tatchells head?
Maybe someone should contact Peter Tatchell here http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/ and explain how he has been manipulated?
Daisy continues:
"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests. He demanded I send him £4,000. Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials. He told me to mind my own business and just pay up. He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan. He was very threatening and abusive. When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim." I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call. For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him. He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks. He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him. I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him. I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend. This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy. I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have? Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside. I feel desperately sorry for him.
I think it was Jeremy Bamber who wanted Daisy to pay for the tests NOT him and the campaign team. I think he uses the CT for leverage
I will go further and say I imagine Bamber treats each and every one of the CT members as he has done with Daisy but they either make excuses for him, are serving their own agendas, or are too afraid to speak out.
Well done to Daisy for speaking out 8((()*/
In my view Bamber is extremely dangerous and an expert manipulator. Surely it's time the authorities blocked all communications emanating from this murdering b........ thus ensuring that he doesn't rip off any other women. I cannot see Bamber ever being released because of his activities.
In my view Bamber is extremely dangerous and an expert manipulator. Surely it's time the authorities blocked all communications emanating from this murdering b........ thus ensuring that he doesn't rip off any other women. I cannot see Bamber ever being released because of his activities.
I imagine if Peter Tachell learned of the fact a Jeremy Bamber supporter has made public death threats towards Bambers surviving victims, as a human rights campaigner he would quite possible drop all association?
Same applies to Kerry Daynes and what she has gone though to date. http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-19/strangers-website-offer-escalated-to-terrifying-stalking-ordeal-for-tv-forensic-psychologist-kerry-daynes/
Allegedly started by a Jeremy Bamber supporter?
Jeremy Bamber gives his views on Kerry Daynes her http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/psychopathy
And Kerry Daynes alledgly states:
She said:
“I have had problems from supporters of serial killers, torturers
and rapists.
“There has been some unwanted attention and I even had to take an injunction
out on someone who was stalking me.
“It is still ongoing at court but I came to the attention of someone connected
to mass murderer Jeremy Bamber.
“They were constantly pestering me on the internet and I had to take legal
action.
“It is scary but generally, by and large, people who recognise me tend to just
be interested in what I do.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/tv/1031939/murder-expert-says-she-is-being-stalked/
"Reoffending rates have also increased under the Conservatives’ tenure and the government was heavily criticised for putting the public at risk and increasing the number of convicts recalled to jail by part-privatising the probation service.
Mr Wheatley said the existence of a nationwide prisons crisis unleashed by the failures was “undeniable”, with the staggering rise in violence starting in 2013. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prisons-uk-jails-crisis-cuts-conservatives-david-gauke-phil-wheatley-a8318806.html
Jeremy Bamber is at present being allowed to reoffend on a considerable scale. Coercive control is a crime http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/
I wonder how long it takes before Her Majesty’s Prison & Probation Service intervene in relation to prisoners like Bamber and how long it is before reforms are put in place in order to put an end to these prisoners manipulation and exploitation of members of the public?
I not sure I entirely agree with this Holly.
This is what Daisy stated:
"Many have never written, spoken to or met him. This is why I have decided to share with you the friendship I have had with Jeremy for almost three years. He was, I thought one of my dearest and closest friends but I seriously misjudged this man. This will probably be a long post so I will do it in chunks so you don't get bored!
I started writing to Jeremy sometime ago after reading new information about the case and feeling that all didn't seem right. I live not far from Essex so have always read about his case in the local papers. I very soon became involved in the Campaign and typed some of the documents for his last CCRC submissions. I have also done all I can to ask those in power to listen and have written to my MP, the Prime Minister,the MOJ, the Home Secretary, CPS, IPCC etc. I have had conversations with officials at the CCRC and also exchanged emails and spoken on the phone to Professional Standards at Essex Police. I also phoned some of the scientists who examined the sound moderator who were very pleasant towards me but adament they had come to the right conclusion. The Campaign Team told me that I was getting more results and responses than themselves. When the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while, I never heard from them again and my emails went unanswered.
Daisy states "the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while"
Daisy doesn't say why the Campaign closed down for a while or indeed what she means by this or why she thought it was mysterious?
What happened for her to think this in the first instance and did she find out who was at the bottom of it?
How did Daisy come to the conclusion that the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while?
Because I have a suspicion Jeremy Bamber was behind the way Daisy was treated; IMO this in not dissimilar to the Stephanie Bon/Simon Hall family fiasco.
I'm of the firm belief Daisy witnessed Bamber when his mask of sanity slipped and after that Bamber went all out in an attempt to discredit Daisy in order to keep the heat off of him.
Daisy states "I seriously misjudged this man" and she goes on in further posts saying why she seriously misjudged Bamber.
The fact Daisy found the courage to post publicly about all this gives me with the impression Jeremy Bamber had to attempt to destroy her credibility.
It's clear from her posts she was at one time very much involved in helping Bamber, and as she states, she was getting results for him.
But what was it that Jeremy Ba,beer didn't like about the results she was getting for him?
Did he back track?
Did he slip up again?
What was in those CCRC submissions Daisy typed out for him?
He clearly wasn't happy with something and I would suggest it was more than just the money.
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9415.msg438483.html#msg438483
Here is Nigel's latest thread. Not sure how this or his 'countdown' thread shows Bamber is innocent. But everyone has their roles on the forum
Nugs blames Robert Boutflour & Mike has his theories. David is more of a Bamber defender. Foucusing on a guilter with his images, posters, 'gish gash' posts or former quotes, if anything which incriminates Bamber is posted.
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9415.msg438483.html#msg438483
Here is Nigel's latest thread. Not sure how this or his 'countdown' thread shows Bamber is innocent. But everyone has their roles on the forum
Nugs blames Robert Boutflour & Mike has his theories. David is more of a Bamber defender. Foucusing on a guilter with his images, posters, 'gish gash' posts or former quotes, if anything which incriminates Bamber is posted.
As to Simon McKay, he quickly distanced himself from any association with Bamber as soon as his name started to appear across the www.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if one of them was called Brett.
Brett Collins? What makes you think that? Surely he distanced himself from Bamber over 3 decades ago and has kept away ever since?
I doubt it very much. I tracked him down a while back and his criminal exploits still follow him.
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
In my view Bamber is extremely dangerous and an expert manipulator. Surely it's time the authorities blocked all communications emanating from this murdering b........ thus ensuring that he doesn't rip off any other women. I cannot see Bamber ever being released because of his activities.
Nigel's death threats cannot be erased. They were posted by Nigel and he continues today:
"Yes Lookout, but they (mugford, boutflour, eaton) will find this a flippin' problem...
Nigel resembles Kerry Daynes harasser/stalker in many ways IMO, though of course Nigel has made direct death threats on a public forum dedicated to claiming Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
Nigel also states:
"We have the makings of a 'Best of Jeremy Bamber 33 years' CD
I vote all proceeds should go towards MUGFORD'S, DAVID BOUTFLOUR's AND ANN EATON'S food parcels.
I have a kind heart.
David is lucky he is allowed to post his images, posters & 'gish gash' posts. Every other forum I have seen, it wouldn't be allowed.This would have most certainly backfired on Bamber and there is no doubt it will have been recorded on his prison security file https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bamber-sends-supporter-7475685
Nigel's death threats cannot be erased. They were posted by Nigel and he continues today:
"Yes Lookout, but they (mugford, boutflour, eaton) will find this a flippin' problem...
Nigel resembles Kerry Daynes harasser/stalker in many ways IMO, though of course Nigel has made direct death threats on a public forum dedicated to claiming Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
Nigel also states:
"We have the makings of a 'Best of Jeremy Bamber 33 years' CD
I vote all proceeds should go towards MUGFORD'S, DAVID BOUTFLOUR's AND ANN EATON'S food parcels.
I have a kind heart.
Agreed Angelo222!
David Gauke is the person to complain to https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/transparency-of-the-parole-board-and-victim-support
Whilst Daisy wishes to remain annoynous, those opposed to Jeremy Bamber's attempts at being above the law, could include Daisy's posts regsrding Bamber to support their complaint.
UK prisons have a duty of care to the public and their duty is to ensure men like Jeremy Bamber do not pose a risk to the public. Risk factors do not just include risks to life and limb, there are the psychological risk factors also.
A judical review into Jeremy Bambers psychological risks to the public should be called for IMO.
He was after all branded by the trial Judge as being "evil beyond belief."
The problem of course is that many of Jeremy Bamber's victims (precious supporters) do not understand psychopathy and that these "evil" men can appear like you and I. Rather than recognise his psychopathy they excuse it, because of their lack of understanding into these dangerous and highly disordered individuals.
Actions of course speak louder than words.
I view Jeremy Bamber as a "pathological cult leader" type and imo should be reported to the authorities as suchhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-30343/Were-living-fear-say-Bamber-relatives.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders
If you know of a cult leader who has many of these traits there is a high probability that they are hurting those around them emotionally, psychologically, physically, spiritually, or financially. And of course this does not take into account the hurt that their loved ones will also experience.
Here are the typical traits of the pathological cult leader (from Dangerous Personalities) you should watch for and which shout caution, get away, run, or avoid if possible:
He has a grandiose idea of who he is and what he can achieve.
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, or brilliance.
Demands blind unquestioned obedience.
Requires excessive admiration from followers and outsiders.
Has a sense of entitlement - expecting to be treated special at all times.
Is exploitative of others by asking for their money or that of relatives putting others at financial risk.
Is arrogant and haughty in his behavior or attitude.
Has an exaggerated sense of power (entitlement) that allows him to bend rules and break laws.
Takes sexual advantage of members of his sect or cult.
Sex is a requirement with adults and sub adults as part of a ritual or rite.
Is hypersensitive to how he is seen or perceived by others.
Publicly devalues others as being inferior, incapable, or not worthy.
Makes members confess their sins or faults publicly subjecting them to ridicule or humiliation while revealing exploitable weaknesses of the penitent.
Has ignored the needs of others, including: biological, physical, emotional, and financial needs.
Is frequently boashut upl of accomplishments.
Needs to be the center of attention and does things to distract others to insure that he or she is being noticed by arriving late, using exotic clothing, overdramatic speech, or by making theatrical entrances.
Has insisted in always having the best of anything (house, car, jewelry, clothes) even when others are relegated to lesser facilities, amenities, or clothing.
Doesn’t seem to listen well to needs of others, communication is usually one-way in the form of dictates.
Haughtiness, grandiosity, and the need to be controlling is part of his personality.
Behaves as though people are objects to be used, manipulated or exploited for personal gain.
When criticized he tends to lash out not just with anger but with rage.
Anyone who criticizes or questions him is called an “enemy.”
Refers to non-members or non-believers in him as “the enemy.”
Acts imperious at times, not wishing to know what others think or desire.
Believes himself to be omnipotent.
Has “magical” answers or solutions to problems.
Is superficially charming.
Habitually puts down others as inferior and only he is superior.
Has a certain coldness or aloofness about him that makes others worry about who this person really is and or whether they really know him.
Is deeply offended when there are perceived signs of boredom, being ignored or of being slighted.
Treats others with contempt and arrogance.
Is constantly assessing for those who are a threat or those who revere him.
The word “I” dominates his conversations. He is oblivious to how often he references himself.
Hates to be embarrassed or fail publicly - when he does he acts out with rage.
Doesn’t seem to feel guilty for anything he has done wrong nor does he apologize for his actions.
Believes he possesses the answers and solutions to world problems.
Believes himself to be a deity or a chosen representative of a deity.
Rigid, unbending, or insensitive describes how this person thinks.
Tries to control others in what they do, read, view, or think.
Has isolated members of his sect from contact with family or outside world.
Monitors and or restricts contact with family or outsiders.
Works the least but demands the most.
Has stated that he is “destined for greatness” or that he will be “martyred.”
Seems to be highly dependent of tribute and adoration and will often fish for compliments.
Uses enforcers or sycophants to insure compliance from members or believers.
Sees self as “unstoppable” perhaps has even said so.
Conceals background or family which would disclose how plain or ordinary he is.
Doesn’t think there is anything wrong with himself – in fact sees himself as perfection or “blessed.”
Has taken away the freedom to leave, to travel, to pursue life, and liberty of followers.
Has isolated the group physically (moved to a remote area) so as to not be observed.
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The Court and many of us have seen the intercepted letter Jeremy Bamber attempted to send Julie Mugford Adam. It's in the public domain, on the blue forum! I can't find the letter here?
None of us know how she actually felt at that time as she has yet to speak openly about it but that doesn't mean she won't!
Maggie is a moderator of the blue forum and as such is fully aware of the numerous threats made towards ALL the victims in this case and other cases I might add.
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
·
1 May
JeremyBamber
Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children
https://mobile.twitter.com/FreeBamberNow
http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/coercive-control-and-the-law/
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
I understand the reason the Campaign closed for a while is Jeremy told me that a former supporter had attacked the premises. The team at that time were working in a business and supporting Jeremy at the same time. He told me that they had to move premises as a result of the attack.
I typed out the last CCRC submissions which I believe are in the public domain. The CCRC turned down the application and then Jeremy went to Judicial Review.
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
Trudi Benjamin and her team have well and truly over stepped the mark, once again *&^^&
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0 - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M *&^^&
Then this elsewhere:
"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’ https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am
&%%6
It was mostly the money and the worrying part of it, he asked me to pay it into Simon McKay's private bank account!! Surely this is illegal and they should have a client account within the business. I wrote to Simon stating that I thought this was illegal and strangely enough never had a reply.
Does anyone have a copy of this letter and could they post it on up thanks 8((()*/
I might have a copy - I'll look.
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0 - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M *&^^&
Then this elsewhere:
"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’ https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am
Thanks Caroline 8((()*/
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0 - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M *&^^&
Then this elsewhere:
"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’ https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am
Attention: Simon McKay esq., McKay Law
Re: Jeremy Bamber case
Dear Mr. McKay,
I was very idsappointed to learn you have recently made comments in the Canadian press regarding Julie Smerchanski nee Mugford in connection with the Jeremy Bamber case.
You seemed to assume that there would be an appeal court hearing at which you would want to call her to give evidence. You must have know these comments were premature even if you did expect the CCRC to refer Bamber's case to the Court of Appeak.
The following comments attributed to you I found most disturbing:
"We're fairly certain we can issue a subpoena upon her and that extradition treaties would force her to testify".
Besides assuming a court case that was never likely to happen, you directly imply Julie would have to be forced to attend requiring a subpoena and extradition. Julie voluntarily attended the last 2002 Bamber appeal and you have absolutely no right to imply that Julie would have to be forced to attend your hoped for appeal.
In my opinion your sole purpose for making these comments was to damage Julie's reputation in her home town and you should be thoroughly ashamed of your behaviour. I trust now you have failed miserably at the CCRC you will leave Julie alone.
How would you like it if for instance I contacted certain people about your personal history and let them know you are working pro bono for Jeremy Bamber when you have two current IVA's in your name. I am sure your creditors who agreed to the IVA's would wonder why you are working for a proven child killer for nothing when you should be trying to pay back your debts.
There might also be a lot of interest in the fact you didn't disclose your current insolvency agreements when trying to obtain funding in the USA for your failed get rich quick scheme. Just as there might be a lot of interest in the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority) judgement against you; mishandling of clients funds wasn't it?
I think you have been led by the nose to the Canadian press by one Miss Jackie Preece and I strongly advise you not to be associated with this woman in any way, shape or form. Miss Preece not only stalks anyone who dare suggest that her idol Bamber is guilty, she spends hours researching their children and using private Facebook photos of their family's to try and hurt her victims. She uses the private information gained and photos in her nasty emails which she freely distributes.
She has also done the same with Anne Eaton and her daughter who was about 7 years old at the time of the murders. Miss Jackie Preece also researched the suicide death of the partner of a member of Bamber's Official Campaign Team and used this information on Twitter to again hurt her victim. I understand Bamber himself is aware of at least this last instance and is rightly furious with Miss Preece's behaviour.
If you doubt anything I have said please feel free to check with Neil who I understand worked closely with you on the resent failed CCRC submission. Neil knows chapter and verse about all Miss Preece's vile stalking activities.
I have no problem with you representing Bamber although I do question your motives. I do have a problem with your harassing of Julie for no other possible purpose than to cause her distress. That was way below the belt Mr. McKay!
I would suggest you have nothing more to do with Miss Preece and play by the rules of decency in future.
Yours truly,
Jennifer Terry
CC:
Jeremy Bamber at Full Sutton Prison by mail
Mark Williams-Thomas by email http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0
Trudi Benjamin and her team have well and truly over stepped the mark, once again *&^^&
Bamber states in his letter to Julie (which thankfully she didn't receive)
"Maybe I am the only one who can understand your action as love & hate are rather closely related. No matter what I cannot find it in my heart to hate you. There are far too many fond memories of our time together.
Now who said that?
Found this from Jenny http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0 - I'd refer to it as an attempt of a smear campaign against Julie M *&^^&
Then this elsewhere:
"22. This concerned me, not only because of the tactics Simon McKay had used in the Jeremy Bamber case, but also because there was reference made to two IVAs (Individual Voluntary Arrangements) which I took to mean that he had twice got into significant debt.
23. Mr Bennett also telephoned the Solicitors Regulation Authority and discovered that he had been reprimanded by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal in 2009. Their findings are at Document No. 3. The main findings were:
a) Failing to keep clients’ money separate from practice money or his own money
b) Failing to apply clients’ monies to those clients’ matters
c) Failing to have proper accounting records
d) There were several other serious complaints about McKay Law
e) They even added a ‘mark-up’ to bank charges, and then described these as ‘disbursements’, a practice the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal said was ’obnoxious’ https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11106-les-balkwell-update-high-court-hearing-2-july-was-media-release-12noon-thursday-19-march-2015-high-court-hearing-room-e111-queens-bench-division-monday-23-march-11-30am
To what tactics does Les Balkwell refer regarding what Simon McKay used in the Jeremy Bamber case?
Attention: Simon McKay esq., McKay Law
Re: Jeremy Bamber case
Dear Mr. McKay,
I was very idsappointed to learn you have recently made comments in the Canadian press regarding Julie Smerchanski nee Mugford in connection with the Jeremy Bamber case.
You seemed to assume that there would be an appeal court hearing at which you would want to call her to give evidence. You must have know these comments were premature even if you did expect the CCRC to refer Bamber's case to the Court of Appeak.
The following comments attributed to you I found most disturbing:
"We're fairly certain we can issue a subpoena upon her and that extradition treaties would force her to testify".
Besides assuming a court case that was never likely to happen, you directly imply Julie would have to be forced to attend requiring a subpoena and extradition. Julie voluntarily attended the last 2002 Bamber appeal and you have absolutely no right to imply that Julie would have to be forced to attend your hoped for appeal.
In my opinion your sole purpose for making these comments was to damage Julie's reputation in her home town and you should be thoroughly ashamed of your behaviour. I trust now you have failed miserably at the CCRC you will leave Julie alone.
How would you like it if for instance I contacted certain people about your personal history and let them know you are working pro bono for Jeremy Bamber when you have two current IVA's in your name. I am sure your creditors who agreed to the IVA's would wonder why you are working for a proven child killer for nothing when you should be trying to pay back your debts.
There might also be a lot of interest in the fact you didn't disclose your current insolvency agreements when trying to obtain funding in the USA for your failed get rich quick scheme. Just as there might be a lot of interest in the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority) judgement against you; mishandling of clients funds wasn't it?
I think you have been led by the nose to the Canadian press by one Miss Jackie Preece and I strongly advise you not to be associated with this woman in any way, shape or form. Miss Preece not only stalks anyone who dare suggest that her idol Bamber is guilty, she spends hours researching their children and using private Facebook photos of their family's to try and hurt her victims. She uses the private information gained and photos in her nasty emails which she freely distributes.
She has also done the same with Anne Eaton and her daughter who was about 7 years old at the time of the murders. Miss Jackie Preece also researched the suicide death of the partner of a member of Bamber's Official Campaign Team and used this information on Twitter to again hurt her victim. I understand Bamber himself is aware of at least this last instance and is rightly furious with Miss Preece's behaviour.
If you doubt anything I have said please feel free to check with Neil who I understand worked closely with you on the resent failed CCRC submission. Neil knows chapter and verse about all Miss Preece's vile stalking activities.
I have no problem with you representing Bamber although I do question your motives. I do have a problem with your harassing of Julie for no other possible purpose than to cause her distress. That was way below the belt Mr. McKay!
I would suggest you have nothing more to do with Miss Preece and play by the rules of decency in future.
Yours truly,
Jennifer Terry
CC:
Jeremy Bamber at Full Sutton Prison by mail
Mark Williams-Thomas by email http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.0
It appears to me that things became sour between Simon McKay and Les Ballwell and I'm presuming the same applies with Jeremy Bamber? http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/exclusive-bamber-lawyer-to-take-on-balkwell-case-1-1445332
Why won't people like Simon McKay speak out, as Les Baulkwell did, and set the record straight instead of brushing things under the carpet and carrying on regardless in the hope the public won't notice these indiscretions?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1002.0
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=125.0
Post by: jackiepreece on November 16, 2011, 05:20:PM
"Just recently my relationship with Jeremy seems of great importance to a lot of people. I have always said to Jeremy my interest in the case was purely because I believe this to be a huge miscarriage of justice. I had read about the case and Jeremy Bamber and his bamberettes made it clear from the beginning that I was not looking for a boyfriend (incase you are reading this John Lamberton) and you will see from part of one of the letters Jeremy replied to he said he could see I was genuine and wasnt interested in women anymore (haha girlfriend of two years Daniele Hammond) why on earth would Jeremy mislead people like that.
I have enclosed two letters one where Jeremy is apologising to me for not trusting me to let me know about Simon McKay although I helped set the whole thing up. To say I was hurt is an understatement.
The next letter is completely different to the letter (I have removed some parts of the middle of the letter as they are personal) before where he normally signs off lots of love its cheers mate love Jeremy and not a phone call since.
I am no longer any use at Bamber Towers and apparently Jeremy has been telling all his friends he no longer needs any contact with me and he has not had any contact with me for weeks.
All I can say is good luck, nice scam Jeremy and I hope this puts a stop to all the gossip and gives John Lamberton lots of stuff for his forum
P.S.
Just to top it off Bambertweets are cutting and pasting all my twitter contactsso they can have contact themselves.
It just goes to show they have moved on from photocopying and scanning
NGB replies:
"Jackie - this really is very sad. The only thought I have on it is whether you can be sure that Jeremy has decided to break contact with you. With his new solicitor on board and a tight deadline I believe he must be spending all hours of the day working on the case. He is I imagine using his available telephone time for discussing the final submissions to the CCRC. I am not in any way trying to justify the way you have been treated but I do wonder how much of this has really come from Jeremy himself, rather than from some of those involved in his campaign team. Why not write to Jeremy explaining how you feel? At least he would then hear it directly from you, rather than indirectly from someone else.
I am really disappointed about the actions of some of those close to Jeremy. His supporters should be working together, respecting and valuing the contributions of all of his supporters. There is no justification for some of the unpleasant and hurtful behaviour that I have heard about over the past few days. I really do not understand it. I have a feeling that if Jeremy really had all the facts he would view some things in a different way
Grahame states:
"Even tw..s need justice Cliff even if they are dorks. I have felt like that several times. Just a note to those on the guilty page who say "we told you so". Surprise surprise. We knew already what he is like. But what they can't seem to grasp with their tiny minds is that we have no ulterior motive for defending Jeremy Bamber. We defend him because we believe he is innocent. Not because we think he's a nice man. Truth is he has done this to several people, just dumped them when they outlive their usefulness. Let this be a warning to everybody who consider themselves to be "personal friends" with him, be careful because I guarantee that you will get hurt.
So on the one hand I dislike him, but on the other hand I pity him and fight his corner. Because I think he is innocent. I don't expect to ever make his acquaintance and don't really desire to.
Jackie has no ulterior motive either. She is genuine in her nature and tells the truth and says what she thinks. She is a rare honest and caring person who accepts folks on face value. She has no other desires for Jeremy other than to see justice done. I am extremely angry with Jeremy to let such a rare honest person slip from his grasp. And the campaign organisers, poor souls do not realise what a powerful knowledgeable person they have cast aside. It was Jackie who got Simon McKay to take on Jeremy's case and Jeremy was informed by those running the campaign that it was they who engineered it all. They should be ashamed of themselves for misinforming Jeremy in that way.
I am thoroughly disgusted with them. That kind of dishonesty can lose support for Jeremy's case and I am sure it has already, the silly shallow souls. My advice to those who run the so called "official" campaign is to inform Jeremy of the truth, That their claim to have persuaded Simon McKay to take Jeremy's case was easy work for them but hard slog for Jackie. Tell the truth please you who run the campaign.
Jackie:
"Whatever I think about Jeremys behaviour I still believe he is innocent but he is surrounded by people who do not have his best interests at heart.
I have personally seen the work other people have done for Jeremy completely forgotten.
If people really cared what happens in the future and if they really do want Jeremys conviction overturned they will stop all the stupid games an arguments.
I have no idea why Jeremy has behaved the way he has but I think someone must have said something really nasty about me.
The worst thing was when I saw all my twitter accounts being copied. The campaign team could have tried to get more followers themselves but to copy mine is very calculating.
Every single day I have people contact me through twitter wanting to help but I can't do anything anymore when my relationship with the campaign team no longer exists.
There was not one word from them about the appointment of Simon McKay.
I have never experienced this behaviour before so I have no idea how to deal with it. I want to keep posting on the forum but it's clear the campaign team don't really want me to.
I would like to make the point that when I was first in contact with Simon McKay I emailed the campaign office straight away with all his details (I have never done anything underhand I have always kept the campaign office informed of everything) within a week the campaign office emailed me to ask if I had done anything with the Simon Mackay contact making it very obvious they didn't intend to do anything with the contact. I then decided to take it further myself.
This situation is an example why Mike doesn't pass everything to the campaign centre.
I question anyone involved in the bad behaviour I have highlighted do they really care about Jeremy and want his conviction overturned.
Dale there was a previous situation that involved myself, Ngb and xxxx that I will not talk about on the open forum but to say I was upset by this person is an understatement. xxxx has never been in contact with me since Jeremy put me on the phone list.
I didn't want to burn bridges but Jeremy clearly does not me involved anymore and he has told forum members that has been the situation for some time and you couldn't have bridges burnt anymore than someone trying to hijack all the twitter accounts I worked so hard to build up.
I cared about Jeremy a lot and continue to care about him and have fought so many battles defending him.
Why would anyone behave like this Dale if you know please tell me it would make me feel better
"Dale before you make comments you need to read posts going back the last week
I know when things changed with Jeremy and I noticed at the same time what was happening with twitter. You obviously don't.
There has been another incident which a number of members know about which involves xxxx but I am not putting it on the forum
I don't believe the campaign centre are doing a good job for Jeremy they don't even use the expert legal advice that is available to them
When I first got Ngb involved a number of people didn't even want a qualified criminal barrister involved they tried to say Ngb probably wasn't genuine
You have it in black and White Jeremy didn't trust me
The more help I have got for Jeremy the more people distanced themselves from me
I have constantly had to listen to why do I come on this forum when they are all mad on here
I know for a fact the campaign could be run by quite a few members of this forum and be so much better
As for me being jealous you can think what you like but I think I made it very clear that when I started writing to Jeremy I was not going to be part of his fan club.
Hence the reply he wrote.
Dale I would be interested in what successes you have had campaigning for Jeremy as you sound as if you have some spare time. Read up about twitter you might learn something and you might be able to help Jeremy
I am not stupid I know what is going on and don't try to make out that you and yours friends have Jeremys interests at heart because you clearly do not.
There is a lot of jealousy involved here but it's not coming from me
I will give you more detail tomorrow
"Grahame with respect I have been following exactly what has been going on with twitter.
You know how sharp I am and I know exactly what has been going on and so do they
Stupid, stupid, people
Read Mikes post you can see what they are up to there as well
No documents no forum
Jeremy is no more clued up than when he was arrested for the murders and was interviewed without a solicitor
He believes what his 'spies' decide they will tell him
I am bored with this now and I don't trust these people
They have won they can take all the glory I never wanted it anyway
It's a bloody good luck to Jeremy because he will need it
NGB:
Dale - I have been careful what I post on this thread because I do not want to do anything which might make matters worse. I am not able to comment on Grahame's post about past conflict with you on facebook as I have no knowledge of that. I have not become involved in facebook or twitter and from what I have heard I do not have any regrets about that. I would not like to become drawn in to some of the nasty exchanges that appear to occur there. Your posts here have been polite and respectful and you are welcome to continue posting here. We need more contributions to the debate about the case. Grahame has of course praised your contributions on this thread.
I am really saddened about the lack of trust and in some cases ill feeling that seems to exist between different groups of supporters of Jeremy. I have tried very hard not to get drawn in to this, as I believe it has a corrosive effect on relations and is harmful to Jeremy's cause. The "guilty" brigade are certainly splitting their sides with laughter at what they see posted here as they take delight in seeing Jeremy's supporters at each other's throats.
I would like to find a way to break down the barriers between the different groups of supporters. I believe that Mike Tesko has a huge amount to offer to the campaign and Mike has indicated his willingness to help. That offer should in my view be welcomed and accepted and I will do my best to encourage that.
Whist writing this post I have received a call from Jeremy. He was very concerned about what had been reported to him about this thread. He had been apparently been told that I had posted that I had fallen out with Jeremy. As you all know I have not said anything like that, and I told Jeremy what has in fact been going on. Jeremy knows that he has to be careful not to react to information passed to him without checking it himself. He assured me that he has not cut off contact with Jackie. He is very sorry that Jackie is upset. He apologises for not calling and for delays in responding to letters but he is working flat out on the case and has to make speaking to his team a priority when he has access to the phone. He says he will catch up with letters as soon as he can and will make calls when he can find time between his lengthy calls to his advisors. I told Jeremy I would like to discuss the problems raised here with him further and he has agreed to call me again when he can give more time.
I really wish that the politics which surround us in relation to this case could be overcome. I am going to do what I can to enable this to happen. I am not going to attack any other supporter here and when I speak to Jeremy I am not going to try to turn him against anyone. I will however give him my frank assessment of the situation and I will make suggestions for ways in which the problems might be overcome.
Jeremy did not have long to discuss the case and I will receive a fuller update soon. However, excellent progress is being made on several fronts and although the work involved is intense Jeremy remains very optimistic
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1775.0
The Blue forum is for posters who are not in contact with Bamber or the CT.
Mike & JackieD were rejected by Bamber. David's contact attempt was rejected at first base.
Roch, Lookout & Nugs will never leave the safety of the Blue forum.
Trudie left the Blue forum in 2012 & is a high profile activist. Doubtful Bamber will discard her as she could cause high profile damage in the media.
Doesn't Lookout write to Jeremy Bamber? I'm sure she stated on blue that she did.
Trudi Benjamin will come to learn in time she too has been used.
Must say I am appalled at the Campaign teams recent malicious, unfounded smear campaign aimed at Julie Mugford
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459501#msg459501
On 1st May 2018 The J B Campaign Lts tweeted: "Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children.
Doesn't Lookout write to Jeremy Bamber? I'm sure she stated on blue that she did.
Trudi Benjamin will come to learn in time she too has been used.
Must say I am appalled at the Campaign teams recent malicious, unfounded smear campaign aimed at Julie Mugford
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459501#msg459501
On 1st May 2018 The J B Campaign Lts tweeted: "Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children.
Yep, just more of the same really. Thing is, they are making themselves sound like obsessives. It's not a clean campaign. All the stuff about Julie Mugford, the family and the liars lobby - it just sounds spiteful. he bake-off and the graveside vigil are ill thought and they seem to work on the premis that any publicity is good publicity - not in this instance! Mud slinging isn't an intelligent way to run a campaign of this nature!
Formal complaints re the J B Campaign Ltd company can be made here: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company
"Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:
causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.
How to complain
You can either:
complain to the Insolvency Service online
call or write to the Insolvency Service
Insolvency Service
Telephone: 0300 678 0017
24-hour answerphone
Find out about call charges
Intelligence Hub
Investigations and Enforcement Services
Insolvency Service
3rd Floor Cannon House
18 Priory Queensway
Birmingham
B4 6FD
Complaints about a limited company
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company
What happens next
If the Insolvency Service decides that your complaint is serious enough, they will either:
carry out a confidential investigation
pass your complaint on to another public body
If they find anything wrong and have enough evidence, they might ask a court to:
close the company down
disqualify the company’s directors
They may also carry out a criminal investigation if they find the company has committed an offence.
Yep, just more of the same really. Thing is, they are making themselves sound like obsessives. It's not a clean campaign. All the stuff about Julie Mugford, the family and the liars lobby - it just sounds spiteful. he bake-off and the graveside vigil are ill thought and they seem to work on the premis that any publicity is good publicity - not in this instance! Mud slinging isn't an intelligent way to run a campaign of this nature!
Much of what the CT claims under their limited company is misleading, false and unfounded and cannot be backed up by evidence, more importantly it is harmful to the surviving relatives and victims and people like Kerry Daynes etc
Doesn't Lookout write to Jeremy Bamber? I'm sure she stated on blue that she did.
Trudi Benjamin will come to learn in time she too has been used.
Must say I am appalled at the Campaign teams recent malicious, unfounded smear campaign aimed at Julie Mugford
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg459501#msg459501
On 1st May 2018 The J B Campaign Lts tweeted: "Thanks to Essex Police and The News of the World Julie Mugford has remained free to influence children.
Honestly! 8()(((@#
Honestly! 8()(((@#
Lookout said Bamber sent her a Christmas card. She once disputed a piece of evidence saying Bamber sent her a letter regarding this. This letter was never posted on the forum.
Honestly! 8()(((@#
According to Bambers letter to Julie he says not a day passes that he doesn't think of her
Hardly supportive of his claims Julie was a scorned women.
Why would she be scorned if it was clear he was still chasing after her?
Lookout writes regularly to Bamber, giving him all her news and updating him on the case.
I would imagine that he looks forwards to those letters immensely.
I bet that's true! @)(++(*
Didn't Bamber send Julie another letter where he attempts to butter her up with smoochy words, or am I mistaken?
I think that was to Lookout.
Lookout writes regularly to Bamber, giving him all her news and updating him on the case.
I would imagine that he looks forwards to those letters immensely.
Didn't Bamber send Julie another letter where he attempts to butter her up with smoochy words, or am I mistaken?
Is that the one in which he calls her "Stinker"?
The Sheila Alive rubbish also dredges up the old myth that police were in conversation with someone inside the farm. This means Sheila while Jeremy was sitting in a police car in Pages Lane! Billhooks!
The log states that at 05:25 "Firearms team are in conversation with a person from inside the farm". The extract from Collin's WS shows that JUST PRIOR to making the loud hailer challenge to the house, he was in conversation with Jeremy - Jeremy was the person mentioned in the log and quite clearly, at this point, he was NOT in a car in Pages Lane, in fact after his conversation with Collin's he went to phone Julie.
They then make a challenge to 'persons inside the farmhouse' and this was met with no response. It's clear when you read everything in context what happened. They spoke to Bamber (the person from inside the farm). But later challenges to persons the house - were met with no response.
The CT keep flogging this dead horse and it just makes them sound as if they haven't even grasped the basics!
Thank you for clarifying this Daisy! It's good to see you posting again!
Did he give you Simon McKays bank details? I know nothing about Simon McKay but I do know not all solicitors are what they say they are.
This is interesting Daisy.
You have my full support exposing the truth regarding Bamber, as I'm sure you have with many members here. You were victimised by Bamber of that there is no doubt.
Well done you for having the courage to speak out!
No he didn’t get as far as giving me Simon McKays bank details as I said no to providing the money. It is interesting that none of these so called forensic tests have ever been revealed. I don’t think they ever existed.
I believe Simon McKay is a Barrister now.
No he didn’t get as far as giving me Simon McKays bank details as I said no to providing the money. It is interesting that none of these so called forensic tests have ever been revealed. I don’t think they ever existed.
I believe Simon McKay is a Barrister now.
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence
https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
And another gem! The was no difference in tone if a caller rang a phone that was engaged in a call or the phone was off the hook!
It sounded like this!
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/sounds/engaged.wav
And another gem! The was no difference in tone if a caller rang a phone that was engaged in a call or the phone was off the hook!
It sounded like this!
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/sounds/engaged.wav
Makes you wonder. Are they THICK or just pure LIARS? Or a mixture of both.
Did anyone see the cartoon Mike posted - the spelling of EATEN?
I don't actually think you see KD as irrelevant but I think I understand why you chose to post what you have.
I'm not your enemy Holly, though I appreciate you may see me as such at times.
I wasn't joking btw about my email to Michael Spurr.
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence
https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
Formal complaints re the J B Campaign Ltd company can be made here: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company
"Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:
causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.
How to complain
You can either:
complain to the Insolvency Service online
call or write to the Insolvency Service
Insolvency Service
Telephone: 0300 678 0017
24-hour answerphone
Find out about call charges
Intelligence Hub
Investigations and Enforcement Services
Insolvency Service
3rd Floor Cannon House
18 Priory Queensway
Birmingham
B4 6FD
Complaints about a limited company
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company
What happens next
If the Insolvency Service decides that your complaint is serious enough, they will either:
carry out a confidential investigation
pass your complaint on to another public body
If they find anything wrong and have enough evidence, they might ask a court to:
close the company down
disqualify the company’s directors
They may also carry out a criminal investigation if they find the company has committed an offence.
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence
https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
IMO the J B Campaign Ltd are in breach of the following;
of causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
I cannot comment on their financial affairs until such time as they submit their accounts with I believe are due in the next couple of months?
The insolvency service will in no doubt take a dim view of company director Trudi Benjamin's "graveside rant"
"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave.
Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice.
He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
The same Trudi Benjamin who's "forum crush" is Jackiepreece and who's "hero" is Muggy Mike Tesco and who refers to Julie Mugford as "fugly Muggly" *&^^&
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456652#msg456652
The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544
IMO the J B Campaign Ltd are in breach of the following;
of causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
I cannot comment on their financial affairs until such time as they submit their accounts with I believe are due in the next couple of months?
The insolvency service will in no doubt take a dim view of company director Trudi Benjamin's "graveside rant"
"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave.
Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice.
He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
The same Trudi Benjamin who's "forum crush" is Jackiepreece and who's "hero" is Muggy Mike Tesco and who refers to Julie Mugford as "fugly Muggly" *&^^&
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456652#msg456652
The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en
Ghouls!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUw-IoZgyh9/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIzbmTRg1bJ/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
https://www.instagram.com/p/BCVi9U3J7rz/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence
https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
Just goes to prove that supporters really do live in a DREAM WORLD!
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook
I cannot decide between besotted or obsessed?
8((()*/
Shelley says: "I might add some people are only to quick to believe the negative rather than the positive about Jeremy, many of them hide behind a veil of deceit like the pop up on your computer that says [hide me
()678% Shelly if you are nebbing in
No deceit here
Simon Hall and Jeremy Bamber could have been cut from the same cloth.
8((()*/
Shelley says: "I might add some people are only to quick to believe the negative rather than the positive about Jeremy, many of them hide behind a veil of deceit like the pop up on your computer that says [hide me
()678% Shelly if you are nebbing in
No deceit here
Simon Hall and Jeremy Bamber could have been cut from the same cloth.
The form is straight forward to complete and attachments can be added as supportive evidence
https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/ExternalOnlineForms/CompanyComplaint.aspx
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544
Has this woman been hypnotized? "He is gracious............"!!!! "..............has enough faith to ALLOW me..........." This one seems to have got it worse than one or two others who salivate over him.
Funny that people should concentrate on the five murders he committed and just ignore his sunny deposition!
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/shelly-cook
The Scottish Charity Regulator is currently investigating the Wrongly Accused Person Organisation charity.
This was written before I know Jeremy so pre 2011. Many of those who wrote testimonies are no longer in contact with Jeremy eg Tom Sturgeon and Maria Perez. It would be interesting to know what they think of him now. Come on Steph I am sure you could track them down and find out.
None of the testimonies are recent although the CT would want you to believe they are.
This was written before I know Jeremy so pre 2011. Many of those who wrote testimonies are no longer in contact with Jeremy eg Tom Sturgeon and Maria Perez. It would be interesting to know what they think of him now. Come on Steph I am sure you could track them down and find out.
None of the testimonies are recent although the CT would want you to believe they are.
Thanks for the update Myster. I wonder what was in the letter. The team are getting pretty desperate now I think.
Actually he didn't dump me. I went to visit him one morning and didn't bother to go back in the afternoon. I then wrote to him and told him I had removed my number from his contacts and I wanted nothing more to do with him. I told him what a despicable person he was demanding money from me then being abusive when I refused to give it to him.
I've never heard of the people you mention Daisy.
But I imagine they sussed out they had been groomed and conned by a psychopath and most probably want to be left alone.
Maybe one day they will speak out, who knows?
Why would I want to track them down? They are yet further victims of a dangerous and highly disordered individual.
If you know these people, why don't you track them down and tell us why they are no longer in contact with Bamber?
They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672. Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.
I cannot decide between besotted or obsessed?
They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672. Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.
But we know Jeremy Bamber is a liar and consummate actor
Maybe the accounts were fake
Maybe Maria what's her name doesn't exist?
And you only have to look at what Jackiepreece has said about his supporters http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2517.0
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2016.0
5th January 2012
Grahame states:
"Who are these TRAITORS to Jeremy's cause? MARIA PEREZ and JOANNA TEW. Obviously they don't have the intellect of a slug and are just as slimy. Stay away from them Jackie. Did I notice Tracy Holloway in there? Stay away from these creeps Tracy. These two people are poison and pose as supporters. But are traitors to the cause. Where do they get their misinformation about you Jackie? Someone is stirring the shit.
Let every intelligent supporter of Jeremy know that Jackie Preece has never ever spoken evil of either Jeremy or Simon McKay. Anyone who continues to spread these malicious rumours will have me to contend with and those who know me know that when I get going I can really cause trouble for you. Beware you traitors. The shit is ready and the fan is at hand. WARNING YOU LITTLE TYROS. LAY OFF JACKIE.
Maria Parez and Joanna Tew. You're in my sights already. Watch your step from now on.
Jackiepreece states:
"Threats will go straight to the prison and then maybe Jeremy will keep all his ugly foul mouthed groupies in line
Jeremy needs to grow up they are all people not capable of finding a genuine boyfriend[/i]
Maybe "Maria" is/was an alter ego of one of the hardcore supporters? Poppy Miller maybe? Who knows?
Mmm. Using that as a format a small number of groupies could become thousands in an instant.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BK2YSUEA__A/?hl=en&taken-by=jeremybamber
https://www.instagram.com/jeremybamber/?hl=en
They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672. Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.
They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672. Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.
This is highly alarming IMO. Do the Essex Partnership University NHS Trust actually know Poppy Ann Miller supports and campaigns for a mass murdering psychopath? https://eput.nhs.uk/about-us/council-of-governors/
http://poppyannmiller.blogspot.co.uk
My Mental Health Years:
Over the past thirty plus years I have worked in a variety of therapeutic roles with many people with varying degrees of mental ill health, from stress and anxiety, mild, low-mood to the deepest black hole of severe depression and suicidal thoughts; within a residential community, Social Services and the National Health Service and continue in my private counselling practise. I use an integrative model, depending on the client though favour a psychodynamic approach, that is, making the unconscious, conscious, as so much of who we are today stems from our early, often repressed, suppressed, formative years. Am currently a publicly elected governor with Essex Partnership University NHS Trust.
The residential community I first worked with was, at the time, one of only two of its kind in the country, the other being The Richmond Fellowship who delivered much of our training and supervision. The aim was to work in innovative ways with residents, ‘community members’.
I was new to residential and no doubt naive having been thrown in the deep end but I could see that a number of staff appeared to have more ‘issues’ than the residents. My ‘supervisor’ was a trained nurse though had not worked in that role for several years and had no mental health training. Never-the-less I learnt a lot in my three years with them and have some fond memories of both staff and community members.
Matthew: All names have been changed.
After several months I was relieved to be allocated a new supervisor who was experienced, respectful and supportive of my ways of working and my perspective. She had been in a team who were trying to work with alternate ways of helping clients who hear ‘voices’. Examples; to try not to ‘own’ the voices as in, ‘my’ voices and whether responding to ‘voices’, rather than trying to block them out, could be therapeutic. Matthew wanted to give it a try.
He was in his thirties, visited family most weekends and had said that walking across the field and alongside a lake to the bus station was when his ‘attacks’ were at their worse. The following Friday evening as usual as he walked he was drawn to the water and the voices began telling him to jump in. Matthew had explained that the terror of not obeying the voices had been worse than the fear of drowning but this time, instead of trying to block them with his hands over his ears, he replied,
‘No! I’m going home’. Then turning to me he said, ‘And I realised it was a load of bollocks. You know? What they were saying, if my mate had told me to do that I’d have told him to f..k off!'
He went on to say that it was as if a door had opened and he could choose to step through or stay locked inside. Of course it was not all plain-sailing but Matthew left the community a few months later a much freer and peaceful man.
Clarissa:
Abused and violated on many levels and who, when I resigned, presented me with a pair of Indian cotton trousers; purples, blues and turquoise which she had bought from a charity shop. I don’t wear second-hand clothes, repercussions of being a kid and wearing everyone else’s but I did wear those trousers and still do. That was over 25 years ago.
Alim:
‘You cannot keep birds from flying over your head
but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair’.
One of Alim’s favourite quotations, though he spoke very little, well, in the presence of staff anyway.
In his early twenties, Alim still looked boyish - fragile - slight. His controlled food intake and exercise regime meant that he walked miles daily so was outside the community setting for many hours at a time. I'd rather not read case-notes extensively unless of course I need to know of any risks, preferring the person to confide in me if and when they want to though I knew Alim had been abused repeatedly by a paedophile ring before he came to England. We would often spend our allocated sessions in silence which became easier for me with more practice and I could relax and ‘be’ not ‘do’, more recently known as ‘mindfulness’. Never-the-less I felt I was letting Alim down, maybe he needed someone more skilled, more experienced than myself? He offered no response when I told him I was leaving and did not attend my leaving ‘do’. Several weeks later I received an envelope with a post-mark I recognised. Inside, a silk painting had been stuck to a piece of folded card with the words, ‘Thank you, I will miss you.’ Inside they continued, ‘I was always too frightened to get close to anyone….but I really love you…’ Still brings a lump to my throat.
It was not all success, there was the time when a community member threw a coke bottle at me because I had stood in front of the TV and learning the invaluable lesson of never telling anyone to ‘calm down’ after being drenched with a mug of tea, fortunately only luke warm.
I have developed further ‘tools’ for clients who find it difficult to verbally express their feelings, either due to never being allowed a ‘voice’ or for those who struggle to find the ‘right’ words. Always their choice of course; we have worked with drawings, dreams, toys, buttons, clothing, stress bucket!
Working with clients is a two way thing. Not in the counselling sense of ‘projection’ or ‘transference’, more in that if we aim to be really present with our client, we learn things about ourselves also. Two people may appear to be sitting in silence but there is often cacophony in the room. It was partly experience gained in that therapeutic community that set me on the path of alternate ways of working. Although Carl Rogers is always associated with the client centred model, in my opinion, congruence and unconditional, positive regard is essential in all therapeutic relationships and may provide a conducive environment for the deepest revelations.
Leah:
We worked together in my role as Family Group Conference Facilitator Mental Health. Leah had attempted suicide several times. An intelligent woman who had been teaching in Higher Education until she became unwell.
Leah had developed compulsive disorders and was also becoming violent towards her husband. My role was to meet with her and help her plan her ‘conference’. I would then contact the family members and friends she had invited and meet with them if they wanted to be involved.
Family Group Conferencing is an invaluable service. Provides opportunity - and permission - for all participants to put a face to a name, share feelings, suggestions and agree boundaries; providing a framework of security around the service user. The process also gives opportunity to air the myths around mental illness; for example, ‘suicide attempts or self harm are merely cries for help’.
It was once thought to be the case that if a sufferer speaks about suicide then they would not carry out the act but that is a false theory. Through my experience I am persuaded that the majority of those who suffer in this way do not want to die, they just cannot carry on living. Often these very intelligent, gifted sufferers have formed their own diagnosis, prognosis and course of treatment and appear to have made the decision to end their life with a 'sound mind’. Hard to understand, it almost appears to be a different aspect of mental illness - possibly requiring an independent or additional diagnosis but…I am not a clinician.
I was speaking with a company director about my work and he said that even though he is on the board of a mental health committee, he actually finds the topic frightening. I suspect that most people who work outside the field only consider severe conditions, such as psychosis and schizophrenia as mental illness, when in reality, addiction to alcohol, shopping, food, social media, are also examples of symptoms of mental health imbalance to a greater or lesser degree.
Regardless of background, status, age or gender, mental health is a common denominator and statistics show mental ill health as a growing problem, with anxiety and depression reported as the most prevalent condition. At a time when funding is being cut from many services this can be a challenge, however promoting mental health awareness does not need to be costly and I feel it is time to add ‘mental health awareness and well-being’ to the school curriculum and encourage larger companies to include mental health awareness in their induction process.
Hopefully adopting these practises will assist with normalising the topic, allowing discussion to be frank and feel less threatening and preventing feelings of isolation
Daisy if you decide to complete the above form re the J B Campaign Ltd company you could simply copy and paste your first few posts on this forum
You stated:
"I have read both this and the blue forum for sometime and with the utmost respect, many of those on both forums have formed opinions on Jeremy as regards his innocence/guilt and what type of person he is. Many have never written, spoken to or met him. This is why I have decided to share with you the friendship I have had with Jeremy for almost three years. He was, I thought one of my dearest and closest friends but I seriously misjudged this man. This will probably be a long post so I will do it in chunks so you don't get bored!
I started writing to Jeremy sometime ago after reading new information about the case and feeling that all didn't seem right. I live not far from Essex so have always read about his case in the local papers. I very soon became involved in the Campaign and typed some of the documents for his last CCRC submissions. I have also done all I can to ask those in power to listen and have written to my MP, the Prime Minister,the MOJ, the Home Secretary, CPS, IPCC etc. I have had conversations with officials at the CCRC and also exchanged emails and spoken on the phone to Professional Standards at Essex Police. I also phoned some of the scientists who examined the sound moderator who were very pleasant towards me but adament they had come to the right conclusion. The Campaign Team told me that I was getting more results and responses than themselves. When the Campaign mysteriously closed down for a while, I never heard from them again and my emails went unanswered.
Jeremy and I spoke on the phone two or three times a week and I sent him a generous monthly allowance. We shared our hopes and dreams and I always told him he was an extended part of my family. I just wanted him to feel that he belonged and I told him I would always support him no matter what. He always told me I was one of his closest friends and one of the only people he could trust. When I went on holiday, he made me promise to email him, he always phoned me on Christmas day and I truly believed our friendship was genuine. I continued to do whatever I could to help him, even tracking down a retired senior Essex Police Officer for his help which he initially said he would do, then asked me never to contact him again! Jeremy has sent me many documents which have never been in the public domain but I can say that none of them absolutely proved his innocence. There is one though, which indicates that there MAY have been life inside the house while Jeremy was outside but that needs investigating further.
Jeremy is witty, makes me laugh and usually cheeful in spite of the conditions he lives under. I discovered though that he has a dark side. He was often very evasive when I asked him questions about the case and if I ever disagreed with a piece of evidence or events, he would turn on me and shout and swear. He told me lots of lies and in the end I took everything he said with a pinch of salt. On my birthday last year, he sent me a lovely card telling me what a special friend I was and he promised to be with me to celebrate in 2014. Then things changed drasticall between us. . . . . . . .
In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests. He demanded I send him £4,000. Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials. He told me to mind my own business and just pay up. He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan. He was very threatening and abusive. When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim." I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call. For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him. He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks. He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him. I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him. I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend. This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy. I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have? Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside. I feel desperately sorry for him.
Maybe "Maria" is/was an alter ego of one of the hardcore supporters? Poppy Miller maybe? Who knows?
They were part of the CT and Maria states on her twitter account that she is Jeremy’s girlfriend mariaperez672. Then suddenly they both disappeared from the scene. I am not on FB or other social media so cannot find them. I just wondered if they may be able to tell us what went wrong. They were avid supporters and according to Jeremy visited him regularly.
Btw Jackiepreece does send her threats to the prison, I have the evidence in Simon Hall's prison security files.
Maybe these factors are taken into consideration by the prison authorities and why Jeremy Bamber will never be released from prison or ever get another appeal.
If Jeremy Bamber can exert this kind of power and control over his supporters, imagine what he did to Julie Mugford *&^^&
In my opinion Julie is lucky she is not serving a sentence with him. Had she not come clean about what she knew and cooperated fully with the police from the beginning she might well have been seen as an accomplice since she too was involved in the shenanigans at Osea Caravan Park. I think she was extremely lucky to get off Scot free.
I agree Holly, it would have been so much easier for them to have gone with the four murders and a suicide instead of the five murders scenario. It would have saved the taxpayer a fortune too.
Essex Police did a good job with DS Stan Jones being very much the kingpin in nailing Jeremy Bamber. Bamber's cockness was his undoing, on the day of the murders he dropped his guard with Julie Mugford and fortunately Jones was quick to notice it.
Appears fake to me http://tweettunnel.com/mariaperez672 Dynamomagician?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MariaPerez672
Why would Jeremy Bamber say to Daisy, Maria Perez was visiting him? @)(++(*
Do you have written evidence of this Daisy or did he tell you on a prison visit/or during a telephone conversation?
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.
Am I reading you correctly, Daisy? Earlier you said Maria made known that she was Jeremy's girlfriend on her Twitter account. It reads as if Tom -whoever he is- is Maria's husband. If such is the case might it -"something must have gone horribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him (Jeremy)"- have to do with that Tom disapproved of his wife making a public announcement that she was Jeremy's girlfriend?
No sorry you have misunderstood me. They are separate people. Maria is a young woman and Tom is a man in his sixties. He and his wife visited Jeremy a lot and he typed a lot of documents for the campaign.
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.
We were friends so spoke about our lives. Jeremy told me about Maria as she also did work for him. She visited as I did. When she left the CT they paid tribute to her and Tom for all the work they had done for Jeremy. Jeremy was very fond of Tom and his wife so something must have gone terribly wrong for Tom to have deserted him.
An announcement was made on the OS thanking them. Maria and Tom regularly tweeted about the case. Jeremy talked about Tom a lot and was very fond of him. Maybe someone turned Jeremy against Tom as just before Tom walked away he kept tweeting remarks like “never trust anyone “ and similar remarks. His account was suspended. He was clearly very angry about something. Maria is also vey real and Jackie knew all about her as did many others. She was very much involved in the campaign.
How do you know Jackie knew all about Maria, are you friends with Jackie?
Poor Tom, sounds like Bamber betrayed him
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if one of them was called Brett.
As to Simon McKay, he quickly distanced himself from any association with Bamber as soon as his name started to appear across the www. You might have noticed that any threads on here have been archived.
Jackie was very much involved with the campaign so she knew everyone connected to it according to Jeremy. No I don't know her personally and am not friends with her.
Looks like the J B Campaign Ltd have gone into overdrive re their tweeting
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets
"Writing & sending gifts to #JeremyBamber - write; use (link: http://emailaprisoner.com) emailaprisoner.com; sending money directly using (link: https://www.gov.uk/send-prisoner-money) gov.uk/send-prisoner-…; what you can and can't send Jeremy. You can even donate towards essential forensic investigation
"More about the inheritance issues after the #WhiteHouseFarm tragedy... the #JeremyBamber case uncovered:
"Inheriting BEFORE the trial of #JeremyBamber & then lying about it in court... take a look at the evidence...
"Local people tell that Robert Boutflour felt #JeremyBamber was a 'cuckoo' in the nest & he had cruelly nick named him so. This was a family joke to ridicule the adoptee Jeremy. Robert also described Jeremy as engaging in 'unsavoury homosexual activities'. (link: https://jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflour/) jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflo…
"...the issue of who would inherit my parent’s estate, with the Jury specifically asking if the beneficiaries could be any of the prosecution witnesses. They were told that certainly none of the prosecution witnesses would inherit..." #JeremyBamber (link: https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/on-31st-anniversary-of-jeremys-wrongful.html) jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/on-31s…
"#JeremyBamber Patron @Michelle_Diskin is the sister of Barry George who was wrongly convicted in 2001 of the killing of TV presenter Jill Dando. His conviction was quashed at appeal in 2007 and in 2008 he was retried and found, unanimously, not guilty: (link: https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html) jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/justic…
"Sajid Javid MP, Home Secretary: Essex police release ALL documents withheld to #JeremyBamber’s Legal Defence Team with immediate effect. Sign the #Petition! (link: https://chn.ge/2rc35ka) chn.ge/2rc35ka via @UKChange
Join the fight for justice!
I think we can counter any propaganda they put out on twitter and appreciate the heads up. 8((()*/
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!
Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this. ()678%
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!
Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this. ()678%
Re Online threats http://www.report-it.org.uk/homeWish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.
Wish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.
I got called a paedo, threatened to come to my house, s..mbag and had my email address and IP address exposed all by the owner of a forum. Why you may ask, because I exposed a fake doctored (backed up by mods) police document.
Hey RJ, are you referring to the blue forum?Yes Steph, I’d been a member for ten years and I exposed a fake doctored police document, Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered me their full support.
Yes Steph, I’d been a member for ten years and I exposed a fake doctored police document, Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered me their full support.
Are you referring to Mike Tesco? I'm presuming it's all been removed? How long ago did it happen?Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe. I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run. If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.
Good to see you posting here btw! 8((()*/
Were you banned then?
Yes Steph, I’d been a member for ten years and I exposed a fake doctored police document, Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered me their full support.
What do you mean by Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered you their full support? Do you mean about going to the police?No Steph, they offered support in the way I was treat and the fact the document was a fake and doctored
I missed all this I'm afraid so don't really know what you're referring to; other than what you've posted of course
What do you mean by Caroline, Jane NGB and Maggie offered you their full support? Do you mean about going to the police?
I missed all this I'm afraid so don't really know what you're referring to; other than what you've posted of course
Wish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.
I got called a paedo, threatened to come to my house, s..mbag and had my email address and IP address exposed all by the owner of a forum. Why you may ask, because I exposed a fake doctored (backed up by mods) police document.
No Steph, they offered support in the way I was treat and the fact the document was a fake and doctored
Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe. I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run. If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.
Shame really, the blue forum has lost some great posters, unless you arse lick Tesko and pretend and except fake you don’t survive.
That forum has run its course IMO, the last straw were the death threats to the surviving victims *&^^&
The Jeremy Bamber case has -at least at the moment- run it's course. It seems that everything which can be said of it has already been said. To hold members' interest all that's left is manipulating, what may have started out as basic truths, beyond recognition. There are some who suck it all up. Anything which suggests innocence -however far-fetched and unbelievable- is acceptable to them. Others, if they choose to expose the BS, run the risk of being cursed and condemned with foul expletives and forbidden from further interaction with him.
Wish I’d done so myself Steph, only out of loyalty I never went to the police.
I got called a paedo, threatened to come to my house, s..mbag and had my email address and IP address exposed all by the owner of a forum. Why you may ask, because I exposed a fake doctored (backed up by mods) police document.
"At least at the moment?" I disagree April.
Bamber has run out of options. His lies and guilt have been exposed. He has nowhere to go.
I added ".......at the moment" purely because I've no idea what MIGHT happen in the future, Steph. With the CT giving their blessing to sick and thoughtless schemes, a forum who upholds him as a cross between Little Lord Fauntleroy and the Archangel Gabriel, and a legal team that seems to be struggling to put together anything cohesive, who knows what tomorrow may hold?
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!
Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this. ()678%
Mat maybe you or the person who got the fundraising event shut down should reach out to the Essex Chief Constable
https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-75257 re the "death threats?"
Someone needs to stand up for the rights of Bamber's surviving victims
I'm sure Mr Kavanagh will receive any correspondence re the above like a breath of fresh air especially after this BS https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986
and this https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986
"Police have accused a multiple murderer of "circumnavigating the formal process" of appeal by using the media and websites to fight his conviction.
Jeremy Bamber, 55, is serving a whole life term for killing five members of his family in Essex in 1985.
His supporters are calling for evidence to be disclosed and wrote to MPs who in turn have written to Essex Police.
A reply from the chief constable's office has outlined the reasons why the force will not reopen his case.
In the reply, Insp Matt Cornish, Staff Officer to Essex Police's chief constable, makes reference to findings by the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission in Bamber's case, which found no new evidence or proof the trial's fairness had been affected.
Insp Cornish said Bamber was "well aware of the legal processes that he should follow to seek a review of his convictions".
"His attempt at circumnavigating the formal process using the media and websites is ill-conceived," the letter continued. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802
I would suggest the police message from Essex police was not only to Jeremy Bamber but to the J B Campaign Ltd company and all others who were involved.
Mat maybe you or the person who got the fundraising event shut down should reach out to the Essex Chief Constable
https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-75257 re the "death threats?"
Someone needs to stand up for the rights of Bamber's surviving victims
I agree with standing up for the Bamber relatives as they are victims too.
I do think that Essex police would be interested in the death threats but not the chief, emailing him (Or his secetary I guess) and asking them who best to email/phone about such threats would be the way to go with that.
I will look into it this week, I think there is a chance that the press may be interested in it and the bonus that it is on a forum paid for by someone who works with Bambers defence team and has made questionable comments about the case in the past will further their interest. There's a lot to put together to submit it to the press to get their interest.
I agree with standing up for the Bamber relatives as they are victims too.
I do think that Essex police would be interested in the death threats but not the chief, emailing him (Or his secetary I guess) and asking them who best to email/phone about such threats would be the way to go with that.
I will look into it this week, I think there is a chance that the press may be interested in it and the bonus that it is on a forum paid for by someone who works with Bambers defence team and has made questionable comments about the case in the past will further their interest. There's a lot to put together to submit it to the press to get their interest.
I agree with standing up for the Bamber relatives as they are victims too.
I do think that Essex police would be interested in the death threats but not the chief, emailing him (Or his secetary I guess) and asking them who best to email/phone about such threats would be the way to go with that.
Maybe the first point of interest would be Nigel's death threats (and insults) to the existing family, then pull in Mike, who's a one-man cross between Walter Mitty, The League of Gentlemen and Nightmare Neighbour Next Door, then post some of Gladys' ravings (especially Gav!!), and round it off with a wander down "Erinaceous Fairy Tale" lane. If anyone out there still remembers Bamber, they deserve to know the calibre of his supporters.
This won't have been forgotten http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
And there's this:
"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0
This won't have been forgotten http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
And there's this:
"There was a very odd case in March 1994 when an alleged burglar, Michael Teskowski,claimed that while in prison he had provided confidential information that two men called Gricewith and Guest had killed Sgt. Speed with a gun which originallycamefromseniorWestYorkshire officers. In Court, Teskowski handed a sealed envelope to the presiding Judge in his case revealing the hiding place of the weapon used to gun down Sgt. Speed. He further alleged Guest's trial was 'scrapped because of acover-up by the WestYorkshire serious crime squad. A disinformer? Yes, but why bother with something so ludicrous. (YP,4.3.94.)
http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster29.pdf (Page 25 right hand side column)
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/killed-going-to-help-a-colleague-1-2533715
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=423.0
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company
Corporate abuse
Complain to the Insolvency Service if you have good reason to suspect an active company of corporate abuse, for example:
causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
If you think the company might be committing serious and complex fraud, check if you should report it to the Serious Fraud Office.
"In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests. He demanded I send him £4,000. Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials. He told me to mind my own business and just pay up. He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan. He was very threatening and abusive. When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim." I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call. For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him. He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks. He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him. I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him. I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend. This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy. I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have? Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside. I feel desperately sorry for him.
Don't forget he also claims to know where Madeleine Macann is buried.
These demands were made to me before it became a limited company so it doesn’t apply. It was just a group of people running it from the IT company where they worked. Shortly after that Mark Cropper a key player quickly left the CT and completely disassociated himself from them.
These demands were made to me before it became a limited company so it doesn’t apply. It was just a group of people running it from the IT company where they worked. Shortly after that Mark Cropper a key player quickly left the CT and completely disassociated himself from them.
Yes, I'm aware of that Daisy.
I'm also aware that the Campaign Team act on the strict instructions of Jeremy Bamber, they are all under his control, as can be evidence by the following:
"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.
I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.
I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.
My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.
Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011 https://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html
These demands were made to me before it became a limited company so it doesn’t apply. It was just a group of people running it from the IT company where they worked. Shortly after that Mark Cropper a key player quickly left the CT and completely disassociated himself from them.
People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« on: April 07, 2012, 11:43:AM »
Jackiepreece states:
"Since the documentary by Mark Williams-Thomas there seems to have been some sort of smear campaign to discredit the documentary. Comments from Jeremy Bamber campaigners has ranged from the documentary being vile to the documentary changed their mind from innocent to guilty.
I have posted below one of those comments and I have also posted details that show Sunil Chandrum has close connections to the 'Official Jeremy Bamber Campaign'
Mark Cropper for one actually runs the campaign and Maria Perez has posted a testimonial for Jeremy
The thing I cannot get my head around is why would someone do something so harmful to Jeremy
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77236.html#msg77236
@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why do you bother getting up in the morning only to spit out venom all day at other people?
06.01.2012
@jackiepreece Please I appeal to your better side to stop this anger at others and be a better person unite with all those who love Jeremy
Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
05/01/2012 08:06
@jackiepreece you cause trouble for Jeremy Bamber and @simonmckay by slagging both of them off don't lie Jackie
@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why dont you shut your filthy mouth Jackie everyone knows you talk about @simonmckay like he's your best friend but insult him
People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« on: April 07, 2012, 11:43:AM »
Jackiepreece states:
"Since the documentary by Mark Williams-Thomas there seems to have been some sort of smear campaign to discredit the documentary. Comments from Jeremy Bamber campaigners has ranged from the documentary being vile to the documentary changed their mind from innocent to guilty.
I have posted below one of those comments and I have also posted details that show Sunil Chandrum has close connections to the 'Official Jeremy Bamber Campaign'
Mark Cropper for one actually runs the campaign and Maria Perez has posted a testimonial for Jeremy
The thing I cannot get my head around is why would someone do something so harmful to Jeremy
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77236.html#msg77236
@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why do you bother getting up in the morning only to spit out venom all day at other people?
06.01.2012
@jackiepreece Please I appeal to your better side to stop this anger at others and be a better person unite with all those who love Jeremy
Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
05/01/2012 08:06
@jackiepreece you cause trouble for Jeremy Bamber and @simonmckay by slagging both of them off don't lie Jackie
@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why dont you shut your filthy mouth Jackie everyone knows you talk about @simonmckay like he's your best friend but insult him
That forum has run its course IMO, the last straw were the death threats to the surviving victims *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006
Here is Nigel's introduction.
Since threatening to kill Julie & the relatives, he now just posts on Mike's threads or his own Stephen Kavanagh/countdown threads. Which isn't saying why he believes Bamber is innocent. Although he did suggest a vague scenario where Sheila had an accomplice
The forum is similar to how it was when I joined - 90% pro Bamber, with Mike as the main poster. Lookout, Roch & Nugs are still there. Only two active moderators remain.
Several people have changed stance to guilty in that time & hardly post. David joined & was a hardcore guilter, before attempting a quiet stance change to hardcore supporter. Nigel joined as an instant hardcore supporter but has never said why.
Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe. I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run. If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.
Shame really, the blue forum has lost some great posters, unless you arse lick Tesko and pretend and except fake you don’t survive.
Yes Steph, Tesko himself, I’ve saved screen shots and it happened in December 2017, I wasn’t ever going to go on forums again, I didn’t feel safe it must be hard for mods when they are scared of the owner so you cannot be safe. I’ve checked this site for a while and it’s moderated well and well run. If you look at my introductory post it’s headed, Feeling Safe, I lost all respect and never want to go back to the blue forum again, he banned me, but he never did it right, so I asked NGB to delete my account.
Shame really, the blue forum has lost some great posters, unless you arse lick Tesko and pretend and except fake you don’t survive.
Do you have screen shots of the threats Adam? Can you PM me if you do. Cheers
I don't. The moderators deleted them.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006
Here is Nigel's introduction.
Since threatening to kill Julie & the relatives, he now just posts on Mike's threads or his own Stephen Kavanagh/countdown threads. Which isn't saying why he believes Bamber is innocent. Although he did suggest a vague scenario where Sheila had an accomplice
"Nige" stated "JEREMY's release is EMINENT, I challenge anyone to disagree with that. @)(++(*Looks like he had his day in court after all then? If it’s the same Tesko under the Barnsley section? April 2016
Has anyone read Tesco's sisters book? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grass-Then-There-Were-Trees/dp/1622122461
Mike states:
"For those of you who think that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, please bear in mind, that I have personally been the victim of unnecessary and unprovoked police brutality (16th June 1987), and I know precisely what the police and state controlled authority's can and do get up to...
The victim in this type of case, is up against it...
Police officers lie, and everyone else in the procedure believes everything that these violent thugs say happened,did happen - here are photographs taken by my own doctor after I was brutally assaulted at the time of my arrest, and my subsequent detention on the 16th June 1987:-
Please, don't even try to suggest that what the police did to me (June 1987) was justified, nor try to say that what these police bullies did to my nephew (27th January, 2014), was legal, or justified...
Despite some 27 years elapsing between both events, it seems that police brutality is still rife, and the state organisations which profess to police such matters, is still as corrupt as ever...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 09:37:PM by mike Tesko
"My nephew was brutally attacked by as many as 6 detention officers, at Mansfield police station custody office, on the 27th January, 2014, at a time he was not under arrest, he had already signed himself out of custody before they tried to 'KICK HIM IN THE BOLLOCKS', bring him down to the ground, handcuff him, and then that 'b........' FLINT engaged his double action knee attack, into my nephews chest cavity...
This gang of 'BRUTAL OFFICERS' , attacked my nephew when he was no longer in police custody...
I personally will not rest until each member of this gang are prosecuted for what they did, it really was / is an awful case of police officers losing control, and behaving unlawfully - I will do everything I can, to try and get 'JUSTICE FOR JOSEPH', and I will not rest until the criminal FLINT is convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment that he personally deserves. He is a monster, and no member of the public is safe in his custody, or presence...
Bring back 'hanging by the neck', for these evil, corrupted, b......s...
"Currently in Kilgetty, S. Wales, I will provide what you have asked for once ai return home to Barnsley later on tonight... http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6642.0.html
Reply Posted by mike tesko on Sunday February 14 2016 at 23:11
"The day of reckoning is almost upon us - you will all get your cum-uppence, as soon as night follows day. Anybody can attack anybody with a brick and baseball bats, but me I will settle for my day in court testifying against the lot of you evil low life s..mbags https://www.wearebarnsley.com/news/article/3875/mum-urges-action-on-previously-quiet-cul-de-sac
Never Mike Teskowski's fault always blames everyone else. Didn't he get done for assault. Yet in the comments section of the article, not unlike on his forum, he plays the victim
Looks like he had his day in court after all then? If it’s the same Tesko under the Barnsley section? April 2016
https://www.southyorkshiretimes.co.uk/news/crime/court-round-up-latest-convictions-at-doncaster-barnsley-sheffield-and-rotherham-magistrates-courts-1-7828859
Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!
Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this. ()678%
Do you recall this Mat?
Mr Gee posted:
"This Harrisonson article also speaks about Bamber being at the back of all these "death threats" and has power from within prison to influence his "disciples". Sorry but U must really laugh at this as this man claims to have been in contact with Bamber for about 3 years. If that is true then he will know that Bamber is a category "A" prisoner and that everything he does, every visitor, every phone call and every letter is vetted and that he cannot possibly run a mafia type gang fron inside.
I'm afraid this tells me much more about Robertson than it does about Bamber. It tells me that he certainly has a vivid imagination. I also challenge him to publish the actual letter for us all to see and examine for ourselves.
This man far from being in danger himself has in fact put people's lives and careers in danger. May I also remind members here that he sent Jackie a pm asking her to contact him by email and that he tells her to "keep up the good work for Bamber".
Now you may or may not believe me? That is up to every individual. I have no control over that. But please keep in mind that death threats are a criminal offence and of this letter is real then he should go to the police about it. I stongly encourage him to do so. That way this matter can be investigated by the proper authorities so that lies and accusations may not be flying around hurting innocent people. I implore everyone to take into consideration an old saying, "A lie is half way round the world before truth has even started out".
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6023.msg268236.html?PHPSESSID=lfkbt91ur3g878hkksrg8ruc07#msg268236
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524489/Mass-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-s-threat-to-Scots-author-Harrison
Many of us witnessed the death threats made by "Nigel" who claimed:
"I believe 100% that Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
In fact I would 'put my life on it'
I'm here to help clear his name, on a mission, if I can help in anyway please contact me.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006
It's a fallacy that all mail in and out of the Prison is "vetted" just as it's a fallacy that all telephone calls are listened to/screened. They should be but the fact is there aren't the staff to do this.
I don't. The moderators deleted them.
That's him justice and if memory serves me correct he moaned and groaned about it on blue; playing the victim, seeking revenge, the usual nonsense he comes out with
Did you see the video of him hiding in the bushes outside the court? Can find it. But did find this..
Think this is his Nigel impersonation https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIs2uC2tVk
He says about Bamber: "I think JEREMY is now well known for his unfortunate 'Prince Phillip' quips @)(++(*
Here's Bamber brazenly lying https://www.theguardian.com/uk/audio/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-murder-appeal-audio
No "Prince Philip quips" there, just the usual BS. Caught in the lie. *&^^&
I'll hazard a guess that the "Prince Philip quips" is a none too subtle allusion to what has been claimed was Jeremy's paternity?
I defy anyone who claims Bamber doesn't wield power and control over his "groupies"
To suggest you'd "put your life on it" is IMO pretty radical.
Not to worry Adam, I've found them!If ever you want to go in and get something just join again, your IP address can and does change, might not from home, but from your phone and other networks it does. $*6% $*6%
David is quieter on the Blue forum.
He was more of a Bamber defender whenever a guilter posted. Focusing on guilters rather than their posts, with his images, posters, gish gash' posts or quoting 5 year posts from former supporters.
However guilters are not posting & David is wisely keeping his distance from Mike, Nigel, Roch & Nugs.
Well this group has lead me to look at the blue forum and I have to say what a sad and deluded bunch of old men with their tin foil hats and bile against the police. Spending time on there is minutes out of your life you cant have back. So bad its laughable.You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser. All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum. &^^&*
You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser. All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum. &^^&*
You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser. All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum. &^^&*Ah see what you did there. More intelligent life forms on here it seems 8(0(*
You won’t be able to Look it Out, but there’s one on there must be on thirty thousand posts agreeing with the same man playing different characters, she’s still non the wiser. All of them swear blue that they never look at this forum. &^^&*
Do you recall this Mat?
Mr Gee posted:
"This Harrisonson article also speaks about Bamber being at the back of all these "death threats" and has power from within prison to influence his "disciples". Sorry but U must really laugh at this as this man claims to have been in contact with Bamber for about 3 years. If that is true then he will know that Bamber is a category "A" prisoner and that everything he does, every visitor, every phone call and every letter is vetted and that he cannot possibly run a mafia type gang fron inside.
I'm afraid this tells me much more about Robertson than it does about Bamber. It tells me that he certainly has a vivid imagination. I also challenge him to publish the actual letter for us all to see and examine for ourselves.
This man far from being in danger himself has in fact put people's lives and careers in danger. May I also remind members here that he sent Jackie a pm asking her to contact him by email and that he tells her to "keep up the good work for Bamber".
Now you may or may not believe me? That is up to every individual. I have no control over that. But please keep in mind that death threats are a criminal offence and of this letter is real then he should go to the police about it. I stongly encourage him to do so. That way this matter can be investigated by the proper authorities so that lies and accusations may not be flying around hurting innocent people. I implore everyone to take into consideration an old saying, "A lie is half way round the world before truth has even started out".
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6023.msg268236.html?PHPSESSID=lfkbt91ur3g878hkksrg8ruc07#msg268236
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524489/Mass-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-s-threat-to-Scots-author-Harrison
Many of us witnessed the death threats made by "Nigel" who claimed:
"I believe 100% that Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
In fact I would 'put my life on it'
I'm here to help clear his name, on a mission, if I can help in anyway please contact me.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9211.msg433006.html#msg433006
It's a fallacy that all mail in and out of the Prison is "vetted" just as it's a fallacy that all telephone calls are listened to/screened. They should be but the fact is there aren't the staff to do this.
But Justice, I'm imagine you must be astounded at the sort of insight that allows someone to claim full knowledge of someone's character, what was the dynamic between them and their parents, how they acted at school, how they presented themselves to others, and how they conducted their love life.....................and all without having ever met them OR anyone associated with them! Amazing! Truly amazing!!!
Lookout is a real nasty piece of work, and extremely dishonest, how many times has she posted something and then denied it? She's also proven herself to be racist and homophobic, just a spewer of negativity and hate - but it's all okay because she hides behind a username.
I think you were more than fair and balanced with her with some of the little stunts she attempted to pull on you and Caroline during your time together (She once even accused Caroline of trying to hack her email which is what ModMaggie once tried to pull on me.)
You had the patience of a saint.
Lookout is a real nasty piece of work, and extremely dishonest, how many times has she posted something and then denied it? She's also proven herself to be racist and homophobic, just a spewer of negativity and hate - but it's all okay because she hides behind a username.
I think you were more than fair and balanced with her with some of the little stunts she attempted to pull on you and Caroline during your time together (She once even accused Caroline of trying to hack her email which is what ModMaggie once tried to pull on me.)
You had the patience of a saint.
And what sort of person digs up someone's ruined childhood, then gloats about it?
*&^^&
Phew glad I’m out, didn’t realise it was that bad, when she used to be attacked I would pm her, feeling sorry for her and wanted to help her, strange thing was, when Tesco attacked me Nothing in return, Me and Sami both sent her pms feeling sorry for her, I felt so let down when I left.
Anyone who wants to hide that their own childhood had been less than idyllic.
IMO the J B Campaign Ltd are in breach of the following;
of causing significant harm to customers or suppliers
dishonest or unethical activity (like not using company assets properly)
fraud, scams or breaking the law in another way
I cannot comment on their financial affairs until such time as they submit their accounts with I believe are due in the next couple of months?
The insolvency service will in no doubt take a dim view of company director Trudi Benjamin's "graveside rant"
"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave.
Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice.
He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
The same Trudi Benjamin who's "forum crush" is Jackiepreece and who's "hero" is Muggy Mike Tesco and who refers to Julie Mugford as "fugly Muggly" *&^^&
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg456652#msg456652
The J B Campaign Ltd appears similar to me as the Wrongly Accused Person Org and look where that ended up. Billy Middleton did a disappearing act and Sandra Lean distanced herself as quickly as she could.
What happened to all the money? That's the question
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1988.msg63544#msg63544
"He shamelessly maintains his innocence - and Sheila's guilt - in the Mother's Day note, penned in prison, which he passed on to supporter Trudi Benjamin, 47, to read on camera at the grave. Ms Benjamin is behind the not-for-profit JB Campaign Ltd, whose supporters fight for Bamber to be freed from HMP Full Sutton, in Yorkshire, believing he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice. He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
"He convinced the campaigner to be filmed as she read out his rant in a strange stunt"
Has Trudi Benjamin conceded that Jeremy Bamber convinced (coerced) her to do what she did re the "graveside rant?"
With the best will in the world, I just don't see how ANYNONE could conceive this as a good idea. IF Bamber were ever exonerated, then fine, vistit the grave privately but to enter into his ghoulish charade, using the dead victims as promotioal exercise just shows A. that he is devoid of understanding solical norms and B. that he is ill advised by the CT - who (with such stupid stunts - no pun intended!) are making him look guiltier than ever!
It's no wonder that they disabled the comments on Youtube!
With the best will in the world, I just don't see how ANYNONE could conceive this as a good idea. IF Bamber were ever exonerated, then fine, vistit the grave privately but to enter into his ghoulish charade, using the dead victims as promotioal exercise just shows A. that he is devoid of understanding solical norms and B. that he is ill advised by the CT - who (with such stupid stunts - no pun intended!) are making him look guiltier than ever!
It's no wonder that they disabled the comments on Youtube!
By the way, anyone looking for a good laugh should read the comments from those who rated 1 or 2 stars for CAL's book on Amazon! They're all there ...... campaigning and dredging up myth and fantasy - opportunits! @)(++(* @)(++(* https://www.amazon.co.uk/Murders-White-House-Farm-investigation-ebook/product-reviews/B00UXKJ0SA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar
Mmm. Out in force, aren't they?
The object was JUST to review the book @)(++(* @)(++(*
Duhhhh! The illiterate idiots probably thought the object was to REVILE the book
Phew glad I’m out, didn’t realise it was that bad, when she used to be attacked I would pm her, feeling sorry for her and wanted to help her, strange thing was, when Tesco attacked me Nothing in return, Me and Sami both sent her pms feeling sorry for her, I felt so let down when I left.
Any opportunity to campaign! The book was only released on July 30th 2015 and someone reviewed it on that very day. They obviously studied it well. Most of these negative reviews were written witin months of the release date which means they couldn't wait to slag it off. Altogether everyone! 8@??)(Mmm reminds me of a forum I was on. What amazed me, one minute they thought Bamber was guilty, the next you would get verbal with a passion-about how innocent he was *%87
Where are these book reviews? I can only find a few on Good Reads all moaning about how much detail there is!On Amazon Alice
With the best will in the world, I just don't see how ANYNONE could conceive this as a good idea. IF Bamber were ever exonerated, then fine, vistit the grave privately but to enter into his ghoulish charade, using the dead victims as promotioal exercise just shows A. that he is devoid of understanding solical norms and B. that he is ill advised by the CT - who (with such stupid stunts - no pun intended!) are making him look guiltier than ever!
It's no wonder that they disabled the comments on Youtube!
By the way, anyone looking for a good laugh should read the comments from those who rated 1 or 2 stars for CAL's book on Amazon! They're all there ...... campaigning and dredging up myth and fantasy - opportunits! @)(++(* @)(++(* https://www.amazon.co.uk/Murders-White-House-Farm-investigation-ebook/product-reviews/B00UXKJ0SA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar
Trudi Benjamin's "hero" Mike Tesco states: "I am no mug!! @)(++(*! Muggy Mike
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438954.html#msg438954
He claims: "I know what I am talking about, I have helped hundreds of victims prove their innocence in a variety of miscarriages of justice... @)(++(* http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438945.html#msg438945
What a moron!
Yet more threats *&^^&
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9435.msg438961.html#msg438961
Online mike tesko
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Re: Witness Statement of Doris Theresa TWEED - June Concerned about Sheila...
« Reply #32 on: Today at 06:26 PM »
"I would 'gladly' and 'personally' hang every last one of these lying police officers, it's 'out of order', and the lot of them are 's..m' of the earth...
« Last Edit: Today at 06:27 PM by mike tesko »
I don't know why Essex Police haven't arrested that idiot by now. Even the criminals hate a snitch.I think everyone leaves him alone, for the simple reason, he does more harm for Bamber than good, everyone leaves his forum convinced of guilt. &^^&*
Lookout is a real nasty piece of work, and extremely dishonest, how many times has she posted something and then denied it? She's also proven herself to be racist and homophobic, just a spewer of negativity and hate - but it's all okay because she hides behind a username.
I think you were more than fair and balanced with her with some of the little stunts she attempted to pull on you and Caroline during your time together (She once even accused Caroline of trying to hack her email which is what ModMaggie once tried to pull on me.)
You had the patience of a saint.
I don't know why Essex Police haven't arrested that idiot by now. Even the criminals hate a snitch.
Mike's, Nugs, Lookout's & Nigel's posts will prevent a lot of new people from becoming supporters. Which is why Bamber wanted the forum shut down.I think they’ve got what they wanted all along Adam, if you prove Tesko is lying your out.
David's forum role as Bamber fire fighter has now gone unless he starts disagreeing with fellow supporters. But the moderators won't let him use his images on supporters.
JackieD says Bamber is guilty because Julie identified the twins. Roch's main argument is he says he's seen evidence which 'shows Sheila is definately the killer'. But won't say whether Bamber has this evidence.
People taking a new interest in the case are just as likely to stumble across the Blue forum, as they are to view the OS.
Mike's, Nugs, Lookout's & Nigel's posts will prevent a lot of new people from becoming supporters. Which is why Bamber wanted the forum shut down.
David's forum role as Bamber fire fighter has now gone unless he starts disagreeing with fellow supporters. But the moderators won't let him use his images on supporters.
JackieD says Bamber is guilty because Julie identified the twins. Roch's main argument is he says he's seen evidence which 'shows Sheila is definately the killer'. But won't say whether Bamber has this evidence.
People taking a new interest in the case are just as likely to stumble across the Blue forum, as they are to view the OS.
29 votes https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/994172464992317440 @)(++(*
Wow! 29 people? There was more than that in the post office queue yesterday @)(++(*
Arh but it doesn't mean 29 people took the quiz @)(++(*
Nor did they all think he passed @)(++(*
Wow! 29 people? There was more than that in the post office queue yesterday @)(++(*@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Even MORE hilarous is the fact that only 6 people liked the post and one of those was Trudie B, one was JB Campaign LTD (which is also Trudie), one was Bamber Tweets (probably Trudie again) another is Heidi from the CT and one was Dee Sadler (the actress they've roped in. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* - not sure who the other one is but way to go! (A long way to go!) 8((()*/@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Even MORE hilarous is the fact that only 6 people liked the post and one of those was Trudie B, one was JB Campaign LTD (which is also Trudie), one was Bamber Tweets (probably Trudie again) another is Heidi from the CT and one was Dee Sadler (the actress they've roped in. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* - not sure who the other one is but way to go! (A long way to go!) 8((()*/
That lot are exploiting the name of Martin Luther King now on Bamber Twits! @)(++(* @)(++(*
https://twitter.com/Bambertweets?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Found this from someone April
For God's sake! Just how deep will they scrape? Next we hear, they'll be putting him forward as Pope.
Found this from someone April
Although white posh boy Bamber can't be pushed as a victim of racism or some other prejudice, like Ted Bundy, he has his groupies, although unlike Bundy they come in both sexes and apparently over a fair sprinkling of age groups. And they like Bamber are not shy about telling outright lies or peddling nonsense.
The police turned up at the property without any real understanding of what they were facing. They had only Bamber's word for what had happened inside the house, and for all they knew he could have been high on drugs, or the victim of a sick practical joke.
They assumed, indeed had to assume, that there were people alive inside, and that there was a hostage situation, so they shouted into the house. And of course, nobody shouted back. A police telephonist miles away entered in his log words to the effect that the officers had arrived and had made contact with someone inside the house, that they had started a conversation. This telephonist was telling the truth as he saw it, but unfortunately for Bamber if not for justice, shouting into a morgue does not constitute a conversation.
Talking of Roch, it seems the mysterious evidence he had seen, which showed 'Sheila is definately the killer' was this -
As you know already, it was evidence of Sheila having been in a violent struggle with the other two adults. All three adult victims sustained attack/defence wounds which are not referred to by PV. I also mentioned the earring, also not referred to by PV. You were given a snippet (back of Sheila's right hand), which I think was quite generous.
---------
Think it was better to keep it mysterious.
Well, we've already argued this out, there was no reason for PV not to note such injuries when he noted old scars. Also, I can see no earring on her nightdress and her earring were all accounted for. Jeremy said she was wearing a 'purple stud' on the night of the murders, that's some recollection given that he can't remember times or who he called first!
Hasn't it only just been recalled -perhaps thanks to the recent suggestion of an accomplice assisting Sheila- that Jeremy was quite explicit about a certain Ralph Neville being knowledgeable about fire arms and being involved in a murder in his home in South Africa involving them. MORE, he was wanted for questioning. Strange then, that he was allegedly headed back to that country, surreptitiously escaping this one.
Found this from someone April
Although white posh boy Bamber can't be pushed as a victim of racism or some other prejudice, like Ted Bundy, he has his groupies, although unlike Bundy they come in both sexes and apparently over a fair sprinkling of age groups. And they like Bamber are not shy about telling outright lies or peddling nonsense.
The police turned up at the property without any real understanding of what they were facing. They had only Bamber's word for what had happened inside the house, and for all they knew he could have been high on drugs, or the victim of a sick practical joke.
They assumed, indeed had to assume, that there were people alive inside, and that there was a hostage situation, so they shouted into the house. And of course, nobody shouted back. A police telephonist miles away entered in his log words to the effect that the officers had arrived and had made contact with someone inside the house, that they had started a conversation. This telephonist was telling the truth as he saw it, but unfortunately for Bamber if not for justice, shouting into a morgue does not constitute a conversation.
Hope is what you stole from two six year old boys!
Found this from someone April
Although white posh boy Bamber can't be pushed as a victim of racism or some other prejudice, like Ted Bundy, he has his groupies, although unlike Bundy they come in both sexes and apparently over a fair sprinkling of age groups. And they like Bamber are not shy about telling outright lies or peddling nonsense.
The police turned up at the property without any real understanding of what they were facing. They had only Bamber's word for what had happened inside the house, and for all they knew he could have been high on drugs, or the victim of a sick practical joke.
They assumed, indeed had to assume, that there were people alive inside, and that there was a hostage situation, so they shouted into the house. And of course, nobody shouted back. A police telephonist miles away entered in his log words to the effect that the officers had arrived and had made contact with someone inside the house, that they had started a conversation. This telephonist was telling the truth as he saw it, but unfortunately for Bamber if not for justice, shouting into a morgue does not constitute a conversation.
Hi Justice, actually it's much simpler than that. There was no mistake and the lods described what happened. The logs never said that they were in conversation with someone inside the house, they said they were in conversation with 'a person' from inside the 'farm. They were, the raid team were in conversation with Jeremy and their WS back this up. They was 'in conversation with Jeremy, just before making the challenge to the house where it is logged 'challenge to 'persons' inside the house were met with no response'. These words have simply been manipulated by Bamber and his supporters.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9466.msg439513/topicseen.html#msg439513So nothings changed then @)(++(*
Nigel is off again. Away from the CT, supporters still have specific roles.
Nigel manages his 'countdown', 'Stephen Kavanagh' & 'reward threads'. Mike posts his theories, Nugs his conspiracy theories. Mike with sources, Nugs without.
Lookout says 'Jeremy is innocent' & Roch likes to muddy the waters.
David monitors the Blue forum 24/7 & will surface on it if a guilter posts. Usually to focus on the guilter rather than the post.
David now claiming Dr Craig was called to WHF to subdue SC:
Dr Craig was called to attend the scene under the impression he would be needed to help the police subdue Sheila. When he arrived he had nothing to do other than declare them dead. He spent around fifteen minutes inside the farm house.
Had the chain of communication got the fact of no survivors to him sooner, he would not have attended and the five dead would have been certified/declared dead by a doctor on arrival at the autopsy facility instead.
Dr Craig is of no real significance. His job was to help the police manage difficult people and difficult situations not investigate the aftermath.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg440130.html?PHPSESSID=a0lfinonb0k7lgt43mtrhalos7#msg440130
As usual with David he gets everything wrong. Chief Sup Harris contacted Dr Craig after the raid team entered and found 1 adult male, 2 adult females and 2 children all presumed dead. Dr Craig's main objective was to certify the deaths and to confirm whether or not JB was fit to be interviewed/provide a ws.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0
And Lookout you have no evidence Dr Craig had any issues with alcohol. If the late Dr Craig's family read these forums I hope they look to take action against those who spread malicious rumours about him. You, David and Gladys are up in arms about the rumours spread about JB and yet can't see you do the exact same thing. And Gladys supposedly a Christian!
Lookout you just can't help yourself can you? This is the reason you're despised. You constantly bad mouth people eg SC promiscuous and now suggesting Dr Craig had issues with alcohol despite the fact you have zero evidence for either.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0
At the time of WHF Dr Craig had been a police surgeon for more than 30 years and was president of the police surgeons assoc. There's no evidence he was anything other than a credible and reliable expert witness. Do you have any evidence to the contrary eg complaints to the GMC? If you do post them up. If you don't then I suggest you put a sock in it.
David doesn't see the need to back up his posts - his word is enough to make it a fact - in his world.
David now claiming Dr Craig was called to WHF to subdue SC:
Dr Craig was called to attend the scene under the impression he would be needed to help the police subdue Sheila. When he arrived he had nothing to do other than declare them dead. He spent around fifteen minutes inside the farm house.
Had the chain of communication got the fact of no survivors to him sooner, he would not have attended and the five dead would have been certified/declared dead by a doctor on arrival at the autopsy facility instead.
Dr Craig is of no real significance. His job was to help the police manage difficult people and difficult situations not investigate the aftermath.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg440130.html?PHPSESSID=a0lfinonb0k7lgt43mtrhalos7#msg440130
As usual with David he gets everything wrong. Chief Sup Harris contacted Dr Craig after the raid team entered and found 1 adult male, 2 adult females and 2 children all presumed dead. Dr Craig's main objective was to certify the deaths and to confirm whether or not JB was fit to be interviewed/provide a ws.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0
And Lookout you have no evidence Dr Craig had any issues with alcohol. If the late Dr Craig's family read these forums I hope they look to take action against those who spread malicious rumours about him. You, David and Gladys are up in arms about the rumours spread about JB and yet can't see you do the exact same thing. And Gladys supposedly a Christian!
Lookout you just can't help yourself can you? This is the reason you're despised. You constantly bad mouth people eg SC promiscuous and now suggesting Dr Craig had issues with alcohol despite the fact you have zero evidence for either.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0
At the time of WHF Dr Craig had been a police surgeon for more than 30 years and was president of the police surgeons assoc. There's no evidence he was anything other than a credible and reliable expert witness. Do you have any evidence to the contrary eg complaints to the GMC? If you do post them up. If you don't then I suggest you put a sock in it.
David now claiming Dr Craig was called to WHF to subdue SC:Good post Holly, it’s always the same, they cannot discuss the case civil, it has to end up where they slander the person with untruths and offer no evidence and then try to belittle and slander, either the Expert or family member, hoping that mud sticks, doesn’t matter this person has a family and might have children themselves. They hide under the umbrella of thug Tesko and try to be like him and think they are immune from prosecution, rest assured they are not
Dr Craig was called to attend the scene under the impression he would be needed to help the police subdue Sheila. When he arrived he had nothing to do other than declare them dead. He spent around fifteen minutes inside the farm house.
Had the chain of communication got the fact of no survivors to him sooner, he would not have attended and the five dead would have been certified/declared dead by a doctor on arrival at the autopsy facility instead.
Dr Craig is of no real significance. His job was to help the police manage difficult people and difficult situations not investigate the aftermath.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9428.msg440130.html?PHPSESSID=a0lfinonb0k7lgt43mtrhalos7#msg440130
As usual with David he gets everything wrong. Chief Sup Harris contacted Dr Craig after the raid team entered and found 1 adult male, 2 adult females and 2 children all presumed dead. Dr Craig's main objective was to certify the deaths and to confirm whether or not JB was fit to be interviewed/provide a ws.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0
And Lookout you have no evidence Dr Craig had any issues with alcohol. If the late Dr Craig's family read these forums I hope they look to take action against those who spread malicious rumours about him. You, David and Gladys are up in arms about the rumours spread about JB and yet can't see you do the exact same thing. And Gladys supposedly a Christian!
Lookout you just can't help yourself can you? This is the reason you're despised. You constantly bad mouth people eg SC promiscuous and now suggesting Dr Craig had issues with alcohol despite the fact you have zero evidence for either.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.0
At the time of WHF Dr Craig had been a police surgeon for more than 30 years and was president of the police surgeons assoc. There's no evidence he was anything other than a credible and reliable expert witness. Do you have any evidence to the contrary eg complaints to the GMC? If you do post them up. If you don't then I suggest you put a sock in it.
And Lookout, you silly ... ...., I thought you said you don't blindly follow others? Instead you claim to be your own person capable of forming your own opinions. Why would you repeat something told by Gladys without any evidence to back it up? Locals spreading gossip and rumors isn't evidence of anything silly ... .....
Lookout has said herself she's in her late 70's. She obviously wants to spend her final days saying 'Jeremy is innocent' based on her 'gut feeling'. On a forum she knows she is fiercely protected on.
One or two posters will spend all day engaging with her in never ending conversations no one will read.
Sometimes she can be abusive towards a poster. When going into Bamber defence mode but unable to give an answer. But no where near as bad as David's goading.
Can't see a problem in letting her continue.
Mike has reclaimed his place as the biggest Bamber supporter forum poster.
He briefly joined in a conversation with the dear ladies. But normal service has resumed and he has started posting on his own new threads.
But where is Nigel ?
I asked Mike yesterday what Bamber said to him about Julie. But got no response.
The 'Injustice Anywhere' forum is very quiet, even by it's own quiet standards. Only two posts this month.
Lookout is currently the busiest forum supporter. Shortly to be re joined by Mike.
Jackie stated: "All I can say is good luck, nice scam Jeremy
Bottom line is NO ONE trusts Jeremy Bamber
His campaign days are over
He should admit his guilt and show some remorse for murdering his family, that's the only hope he has left - as pointed out by a Supreme Court judge
"what tipped the balance for me in voting with the majority was the Court’s confirmation, in this judgment, that Article 3 encompasses what might be described as “the right to hope”. It goes no further than that. The judgment recognises, implicitly, that hope is an important and constitutive aspect of the human person. Those who commit the most abhorrent and egregious of acts and who inflict untold suffering upon others, nevertheless retain their fundamental humanity and carry within themselves the capacity to change. Long and deserved though their prison sentences may be, they retain the right to hope that, someday, they may have atoned for the wrongs which they have committed. They ought not to be deprived entirely of such hope. To deny them the experience of hope would be to deny a fundamental aspect of their humanity and, to do that, would be degrading.
IA is not really just hardcore supporters.
Luminous Wanderer has said he is looking at how the conviction is unsafe, rather than saying Bamber is innocent.
Similar to Luminous Wanderer, TomG was not confident enough to continue debating with guilters on the Blue forum.
David used to be a hardcore guilter who attempted a quiet stance change. Realising he was not going to be allowed to goad supporters/moderators as a guilter. He monitors Blue 24/7 for guilter posters to goad.
IA is more a safe haven, where posters will more or less agree with each other, due to not coming up against hardcore guilters.
I'm sure Mr Kavanagh will receive any correspondence re the above like a breath of fresh air especially after this BS https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986
and this https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-amber-rudd-mp-home-secretary-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence/u/20235986
"Police have accused a multiple murderer of "circumnavigating the formal process" of appeal by using the media and websites to fight his conviction.
Jeremy Bamber, 55, is serving a whole life term for killing five members of his family in Essex in 1985.
His supporters are calling for evidence to be disclosed and wrote to MPs who in turn have written to Essex Police.
A reply from the chief constable's office has outlined the reasons why the force will not reopen his case.
In the reply, Insp Matt Cornish, Staff Officer to Essex Police's chief constable, makes reference to findings by the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission in Bamber's case, which found no new evidence or proof the trial's fairness had been affected.
Insp Cornish said Bamber was "well aware of the legal processes that he should follow to seek a review of his convictions".
"His attempt at circumnavigating the formal process using the media and websites is ill-conceived," the letter continued. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802
I would suggest the police message from Essex police was not only to Jeremy Bamber but to the J B Campaign Ltd company and all others who were involved.
I wouldn't say that. I disagree strongly with Luminious Wanderer, TomG, Frankie Lee and IsThisTheLife.
I'm pretty sure none of us who discuss this case on the internet make any difference at all to the case.
With Mike's giant stuffed tiger, David's diagrams, Lookout's 'Gut Feeling' & Nugs's vision.
I disagree.
With Mike's giant stuffed tiger, David's diagrams, Lookout's 'Gut Feeling' & Nugs's vision.
I disagree.
and how is that going to make any difference ?White man speak with forked tongue in cheek. kemo sabe!
White man speak with forked tongue in cheek. kemo sabe!
what are you talking about?
what are you talking about?APRIL has just explained my post perfectly... LOL!!!!
APRIL has just explained my post perfectly... LOL!!!!
Holly says that I have a dry sense of humour, which I guess some don't get at all..... and Adam, well... he's off the planet!Hi-Yo Silver!!!...................
SO dry, one might even describe it as being cracked? @)(++(*TYVM... Sweetie! $6(&
TYVM... Sweetie! $6(&
Oh dear! I'll try to explain. I THINK Myster was suggesting that Adam MAY have injected into his post, the tiniest bit of sarcasm with the meerest hint of very gentle mockery. All rather. as Myster said, tongue in cheek. Then, of course, there's the lovely Tonto's kemosabe, Roy Rogers and his trusty Silver @)(++(* I'm positive either or both of them will hasten to correct me if I've got it wrong.
.
Speaking of which, this was recently tweeted by Dr Michael Naughton
"A herd of elephants is needed in the criminal justice system room - police & prosecutors are not disclosing vital evidence; defence lawyers are failing to investigate cases properly; juries are convicting innocent people; the appeal courts & the CCRC are failing the innocent too. https://mobile.twitter.com/mjnaughton_/status/981433818103123969
Michael Naughton appears oblivious, but we know he isn't! It's a facade, self preservation possibly?
A heard of elephants are running amok within the miscarriage of justice movement and there's one sat on Michael Naughtons lap.
Seems tweets are being removed? Which is of course the prerogative of the author but what motivated them to do so I wonder?
Bill doesn't sound too happy!
29th October 2015 - Bill Robertson
"If you enjoy a work of fiction, then this book is for you. However, if you want factual reporting with a high degree of accuracy, and if you want to evaluate the evidence and then make your own mind up, you will be misinformed by this book. For, it is pretty much a work of fiction.
If zero stars was possible, this book would merit zero. It is so disappointing that in 2015, with 30 years worth of important new material to reference, the author has relied primarily on discredited police sources that were compiled in 1986, e.g. the Dickinson report, which whitewashed police incompetence.Reading this book made me wonder if Essex Police paid for it to be written.
The murder scenario depicted by the author at the end of the book is laughable. For example, "Jeremy then forced Sheila down beside the bed and shot her once in the throat" What?
There is no evidence at all that Sheila was forced to the floor. According to pathologist Dr Vanezis her body bore no marks of a struggle whatsoever. So, she was not forced down beside the bed. Which leads to the next question. How did Jeremy Bamber with just words persuade his sister to lie down on the floor while he shot her, with the implied threat that he would kill her sons, if she did not already know they were dead? You can’t just shrug your shoulders and say, “Well he must have persuaded her somehow” that is not good enough. Think about it until you come up with a plausible explanation. You will have a long wait.
Another point to ponder. If Jeremy was so persuasive that he was able to convince Sheila to lie down and be killed by him, why did he not also persuade her to write a suicide note? Surely it would be easy to achieve for someone as cunning as Jeremy was made out to be? There is no logical reason why Sheila would have refused to do so if she was going to allow herself to be killed. If you believe Jeremy to be guilty then try to explain why he would have overlooked this obvious ploy.
How come three adults could not overpower one man? he could only point a rifle and shoot at one adult at a time.
If you are going to claim to produce a definitive account then you have to go beyond rehashing myths that were exposed as false years ago. For example, "Nevill was extremely safety conscious with guns". No, sadly he wasn't. If you take police reports at face value, you can believe this tripe, but read the trial testimony of Bamber's relatives, who describe guns being left in the bathroom or toilet or under the beds at White House Farm. There are crime scene photographs showing shotguns in the toilet. A loaded shotgun was kept in the bedroom for shooting at foxes.
One more example; how can you claim to write the definitive investigation without even mentioning that PC's Cracknell and Norcup were the first police officers to be sent to White House Farm by PC West at Chelmsford police station, five minutes before Jeremy telephoned the police. How can you not speculate why they drove there so slowly, taking 50 minutes to arrive? Perhaps they drove so slowly because they were responding to the call to PC West from Nevill Bamber and he did not convey any urgency in his phone call?
How about mentioning that there is unambiguous evidence that there are two different versions of PC West's incident recording message log; one clearly a forgery? Why not speculate on the reasons for needing to forge police documentation?
This is not a "definitive" account, it is not even a thorough account. It is nowhere near as good as a couple of other books on the subject, for example Scott Lomax's work. It barely considers much of the evidence of Jeremy's innocence that is contained on the Jeremy Bamber campaign website. So, it is very disappointing to read a book claiming so much and delivering so little.
By the way, Jeremy Bamber is innocent.
Bill posted on blue:
"Apologies, I didn't know I was meant to log in here first.
I have studied the first 2 hours of the case for the past 3 years; just the first 2 hours!
Finding out everything possible about what happened, particularly in relation to the police and trying to figure out which of my ex-colleagues have been economical with the truth, or supremely inventive.
I got interested because casting a professional eye over the case it was obvious where the lies were. Proving that they are lies takes a bit more effort.
Jeremy Bamber is innocent. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5568.msg243277.html#msg243277
Patron Michelle Diskin Bates claims, ‘In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead1982?!!! What a load of absolute codswallop!!!... it was only reported on television and in newspapers the day afterwards, and the only inaccuracies will be in Michelle Bates' incessant mistaken twittering. God save us from God-botherers.
Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@mindful_vinyl
and
@Bambertweets
I understand but I will watch-then I can point out every inaccuracy to my friends and others.
In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead. Jeremy’s conviction made no sense-it still doesn’t 😡
2:36 PM · Dec 31, 2019·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1212019723665387520 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1212019723665387520)
1982?!!! What a load of absolute codswallop!!!... it was only reported on television and in newspapers the day afterwards, and the only inaccuracies will be in Michelle Bates' incessant mistaken twittering. God save us from God-botherers.Michelle Diskin Bates wrote the below in 2016 - suggesting the ‘1982’ is a mistake but the rest isn’t. *&^^&
Michelle Diskin Bates wrote the below in 2016 - suggesting the ‘1982’ is a mistake but the rest isn’t. *&^^&
”I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer”
”It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.
Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.
Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.
My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.
Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html
That's hilarious!! @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Where is Jeremy Bamber's usual twee Christmas message?... repeatedly looking forward to his imminent release in the New Year, which of course never materialises.
It seems to have been replaced by a sour grapes rant by his supporters club, who didn't get their own way with the producers of ITV's new drama when their pleas for it to be postponed, or worse still, cancelled altogether were ignored.
Not content with the spouting vitriol at ITV, they are now only too willing to fire a cheap shot at Carol Ann Lee, accusing her of perpetrating lies in her best-selling book. Bamber has had his own way creating mischief and claiming BS for thirty-three years at the tax-payers expense to the tune of some £500,000, so it's only right in my opinion that CAL and Colin Caffell should set the record straight with the truth behind the White House Farm murders.
https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/12/kindness-strength-and-compassion-makes.html (https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/12/kindness-strength-and-compassion-makes.html)
I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the campaign team and will post a copy. ?8)@)-)
I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the campaign team and will post a copy. ?8)@)-)
I don't think you will get a reply Holly, I wrote to them a couple of times re: inaccurate stuff on their site. Ended up getting a reply from Bamber who asked that I relay all questions through him.
They have really done themselves no good by slagging off a drama that hasn't even aired yet and taking personal pot shits at Carol Ann Lee. They need to look at their antics and that the carp that they have peddled in the past.
Good luck - oh and Happy New Year by the way.
The new ITV drama series will do Bamber no favours and he knows it. Maybe at last the public will learn what really went on at White House Farm and realise that Bamber's crusade against the family, the police and Julie Mugford is a futile fiasco.
I don't think you will get a reply Holly, I wrote to them a couple of times re: inaccurate stuff on their site. Ended up getting a reply from Bamber who asked that I relay all questions through him.
They have really done themselves no good by slagging off a drama that hasn't even aired yet and taking personal pot shots at Carol Ann Lee. They need to look at their antics and that the carp that they have peddled in the past.
Good luck - oh and Happy New Year by the way.
Who could ever forget "June's cakes were to die for"?... and Trudi's Hereford Mess... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnbBdgUkkI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnbBdgUkkI)
%56&
I don't think you will get a reply Holly, I wrote to them a couple of times re: inaccurate stuff on their site. Ended up getting a reply from Bamber who asked that I relay all questions through him.
They have really done themselves no good by slagging off a drama that hasn't even aired yet and taking personal pot shots at Carol Ann Lee. They need to look at their antics and that the carp that they have peddled in the past.
Good luck - oh and Happy New Year by the way.
Yes I hope everyone here had a good Christmas and best wishes for the New Year!Shouldn't that read 'winding up' instead?
I've been hanging out on the Madeleine McCann board. Wow such hostility among the 'supporters' (of the McCanns) and 'sceptics'. At least here we have some friendly banter regardless of our case related views!
That's hilarious!! @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
If you think that’s hilarious.....
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665
If you think that’s hilarious.....
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665
”It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.
Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.
Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.
My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.
Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?
Did ITV turn Michelle Diskin Bates down because they finally recognised her quite apparent lies https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html
If you think that’s hilarious.....
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Michelle Diskin Bates wrote the below in 2016 - suggesting the ‘1982’ is a mistake but the rest isn’t. *&^^&
”I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer”
”It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.
Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.
Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.
My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.
Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html
Here we go...
Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546
Emilia Di Girolamo
“I don’t have a single doubt that Jeremy is innocent by Emilia Di Girolamo, Writer
During the eight years I worked in offender rehabilitation, I met many men and women convicted of murder and other very serious crimes. Some I met fleetingly, others I worked with intensively but in all cases, it was clear that the person before me was capable of committing the offence their prison file told me they had committed. Even the prisoners who claimed to be innocent victims of a ‘fit up’, were betrayed by aspects of their personality, demeanor, little signs indicative of guilt. Working inside, I quickly learned to trust my instincts. My instincts told me Jeremy was innocent even before I read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction is unsafe.
Why was I so certain? I have studied many cases of family annihilation and women who have killed their own children, something we as a nation found incomprehensible in 1985. My knowledge of these cases, and of the typical profile of a family annihilator, meant Jeremy’s case never felt quite right to me. Jeremy doesn’t fit the profile of a family annihilator, though sadly his sister Sheila did fit the profile of a mother capable of killing her children.
It is incredibly difficult to accept a woman is capable of killing her own children but the sad truth is, since the murder at White House Farm, many women have committed equally tragic and terrible murders. There have been literally thousands of cases worldwide though there are the ones that stick in your head – Susan Smith who drove her car into a lake in 1994 with her two children strapped inside, Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned her five children in the bath tub in 2001. In 2009, Rekha Kumari-Baker, stabbed her teenage daughters a total of 69 times. In 2010, Brit Lianne Smith, confessed to killing her two children in a Spanish hotel room. Just this month Theresa Riggi, pleaded guilty to killing her three children.
It’s disturbing and terrifying to the national psyche but it happens.
It is exactly what I believe happened that night at White House Farm. I believe Sheila, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, who had been directly challenged by her parents that very evening over her parenting skills, snapped, killing her children, her parents and then herself. It isn’t just my belief - there is overwhelming evidence that Sheila was alive inside the house, while Jeremy was outside with the police for several hours, before the police broke down the door. The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.
I don’t work in prison anymore. I work as a TV script writer and producer, writing television drama. Jeremy’s case is so bizarre, so loaded with mistakes, cover ups and conspiracies it’s way beyond anything I would dream up at my desk. But at the heart of this case is an innocent man who has been locked up far too long. The evidence is so overwhelming, the CCRC are going to look very stupid if they reject an appeal again.
My husband and I have come to know Jeremy well and we are one hundred percent certain the man we know is not capable of killing anyone. He is an extraordinary person who continues to work relentlessly to prove his innocence. He has a remarkable spirit, a rare strength of character and is a warm, compassionate and kind human being who I am deeply privileged to know.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo
Emilia Di GirolamoHow does she explain the lack of gunfire heard by the police outside the house if sheila was still alive inside?
“I don’t have a single doubt that Jeremy is innocent by Emilia Di Girolamo, Writer
During the eight years I worked in offender rehabilitation, I met many men and women convicted of murder and other very serious crimes. Some I met fleetingly, others I worked with intensively but in all cases, it was clear that the person before me was capable of committing the offence their prison file told me they had committed. Even the prisoners who claimed to be innocent victims of a ‘fit up’, were betrayed by aspects of their personality, demeanor, little signs indicative of guilt. Working inside, I quickly learned to trust my instincts. My instincts told me Jeremy was innocent even before I read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction is unsafe.
Why was I so certain? I have studied many cases of family annihilation and women who have killed their own children, something we as a nation found incomprehensible in 1985. My knowledge of these cases, and of the typical profile of a family annihilator, meant Jeremy’s case never felt quite right to me. Jeremy doesn’t fit the profile of a family annihilator, though sadly his sister Sheila did fit the profile of a mother capable of killing her children.
It is incredibly difficult to accept a woman is capable of killing her own children but the sad truth is, since the murder at White House Farm, many women have committed equally tragic and terrible murders. There have been literally thousands of cases worldwide though there are the ones that stick in your head – Susan Smith who drove her car into a lake in 1994 with her two children strapped inside, Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned her five children in the bath tub in 2001. In 2009, Rekha Kumari-Baker, stabbed her teenage daughters a total of 69 times. In 2010, Brit Lianne Smith, confessed to killing her two children in a Spanish hotel room. Just this month Theresa Riggi, pleaded guilty to killing her three children.
It’s disturbing and terrifying to the national psyche but it happens.
It is exactly what I believe happened that night at White House Farm. I believe Sheila, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, who had been directly challenged by her parents that very evening over her parenting skills, snapped, killing her children, her parents and then herself. It isn’t just my belief - there is overwhelming evidence that Sheila was alive inside the house, while Jeremy was outside with the police for several hours, before the police broke down the door. The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.
I don’t work in prison anymore. I work as a TV script writer and producer, writing television drama. Jeremy’s case is so bizarre, so loaded with mistakes, cover ups and conspiracies it’s way beyond anything I would dream up at my desk. But at the heart of this case is an innocent man who has been locked up far too long. The evidence is so overwhelming, the CCRC are going to look very stupid if they reject an appeal again.
My husband and I have come to know Jeremy well and we are one hundred percent certain the man we know is not capable of killing anyone. He is an extraordinary person who continues to work relentlessly to prove his innocence. He has a remarkable spirit, a rare strength of character and is a warm, compassionate and kind human being who I am deeply privileged to know.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo
If you think that’s hilarious.....
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
2h
#whiteHouseFarm As a writer about miscarriage of justice I recognise how important integrity is to all events and all parties. I too, cannot understand Writers not even LOOKING at new evidence offered to them. #StandAgainstInjustice I also offered to help but was turned down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1214867759420657665
Here we go...
Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546
Bamber campaign calls on ITV to pull ‘dangerous drama’ by Jon Robins 9th Jan 2020
Supporters for the convicted killer Jeremy Bamber attempted to postpone the airing of a new drama based on the notorious case. As reported last month his legal team have issued judicial review proceedings against the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) over a failure to disclose evidence -see here.
They claim that the evidence could undermine Bamber’s 1986 conviction for the murders of his adoptive parents, sister and her six-year-old twin sons, thus rendering his whole life sentence a miscarriage of justice.
The first episode of the six-part ITV drama White House Farm aired last night. The Jeremy Bamber campaign accused the broadcaster of treating the tragedy ‘a money pot… reaping in millions of pounds from a family tragedy that is still unresolved.’
The actor who plays Bamber, Freddie Fox spoke told the Radio Times he decide not meet the prisoner who is serving a whole life tariff. ‘It was probably not the right decision for me [to contact Bamber] because the Jeremy Bamber I’m playing is a combination of the Jeremy Bamber that I’ve created as an actor, in my imagination, and factual, assiduous factual research. And he’s a different man now, it’s 35 years on, and he maintains his innocence.’
According to Bamber’s lawyer, Mark Newby said that they were concerned that that the drama would ‘place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS’.
‘But more importantly we’re looking after that to get this case back before the Court of Appeal. Programmes such as this don’t just get aired and disappear they stay in the mind of the public and are available online. The actor playing Bamber in interviews refers to creating him from his imagination yet there is a danger the general public will assimilate the real Jeremy Bamber as being this actor.’
He points out that ITV declined any contact with the campaign adding: ‘It is just a dangerous drama to broadcast at this time which is why we invited them just to delay it, whilst matters proceed before the High Court.’
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bamber-campaign-calls-on-itv-to-pull-dangerous-drama/
According to Bamber’s lawyer, Mark Newby said that they were concerned that that the drama would ‘place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS’.
National Training Conference on Investigating Miscarriages of Justice 2018
"Mark Newby, solicitor advocate, possibly the UK's foremost criminal appeal lawyer and a long term active supporter of innocence projects MJRCs, will talk about his recent successes and the technicalities of putting together an appeal case.
http://events.manchester.ac.uk/event/event:v7f-jdftuiyz-ea4yoz/national-training-conference-on-investigating-miscarriages-of-justice-2018
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1215030357348757504 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1215030357348757504)
The AGA cooker was cream-coloured not red, and it didn't have any scratches on it!!! @)(++(*
So much for Michelle Bates pointing out inaccuracies!
Roch Reply #957 on: Today at 11:26 AM
Well RJ, I may change my mind and watch it. But I think as the episodes go on, it's got to look more like he did it. If this were not the case, and they wanted to be more neutral, they would have cooperated with the defence. I should add, I feel heartfelt sorry for Colin. He believes what he believes. But I think that while he already knew Jeremy was no angel, he has been sold a perpetrator by the police and relatives. If it was ever proven in a court of law that it could not have been JB, how will Colin cope?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10009.msg469353.html#msg469353
Foolish and disrespectful of Roch (And/or others) to suggest Colin Caffell doesn’t have a mind of his own and hasn’t looked at all possibilities *&^^&
I don’t believe Mark Newby is suffering from cognitive dissonance nor do I believe he believes in Bamber’s claims of innocence.
He chose to represent Jeremy Bamber and could have declined the request but I think the alleged disclosure issues in this case maybe behind Mark Newbys involvement, especially in light of Kevin Nunns rejection by the Supreme Court. https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2012-0175-judgment.pdf
Tactics or technicalities won’t overturn Jeremy Bambers murder convictions
Referring to ITV’s White House Farm as a ‘dangerous drama’ shows a clear lack of comprehension for psychopathic individuals like Jeremy Bamber and no amount of reverse psychology or any type of persuasive technique will make an iota of difference to those of us who recognise this mass murderer for what he is
Jeremy Bamber to Daisy, ‘everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them’
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3187.msg119162#msg119162
“Although it can be obvious to those around them, people in cults often don’t realize what they have become a part of. Psychologist Dr. Margaret Thaler Singer spent most of her career studying the psychology of cults and brainwashing. She found that most people enter a cult willingly, without realizing the power it is bound to have over them. Singer theorizes that this is partly because some people are more willing to see the perceived benefits than they are the potential dangers. She also mentions that many people assume cults are only religious, though in truth, cults can also be political groups, lifestyle groups, or business groups...................................
https://www.onlinepsychologydegree.info/what-to-know-about-the-psychology-of-cults/
..........................and forums @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
So that's what happened to Simon McKay. Mark Newby is in for a shock when Bamber kicks him into touch when he's of no further use...
So that's what happened to Simon McKay. Mark Newby is in for a shock when Bamber kicks him into touch when he's of no further use...
Jeremy Bamber to Daisy, ‘everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them’
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3187.msg119162#msg119162
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw)
Julie Mugford’s interview is worth listening to again @ around 16.30 below
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw
When asked why she didn’t go to the police before, she appears to me to be describing a state of cognitive dissonance
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k96gmbXLoMw
Don’t you think Mark Newby is already part of the ‘cult’ that is the ‘wrongful conviction arena?’
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507
Bamber supporter Mark Williams Thomas’s contribution https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/uploads/images/Bamber-Innocent-or-Guilty.pdfSurely forensic examination of the bullets can tell whether or not the bullets used on Sheila went through a silencer or not?
Excerpts (by Mark Williams Thomas):
“It is however this simple narrative that undermines the whole case, when carefully analysed and considered against what is known now. The Judge, quite correctly, stated that the murders were either carried out by Sheila Cafell or Jeremy, thereby ruling out a third-party involvement.
Given the brutal and frantic nature of the murders at the farm house it would be fair to assess that the killings took place when the killer was in some kind of frenzied or psychotic state. So, what was the mental background of the two suspects? Jeremy had no history of psychosis or mental illness, no drug or alcohol dependence, in fact Jeremy’s mental health both then and now is considered stable and balanced.
“However, when one asks the question, based solely on personalities and mental state, who had the present behaviour capable of carrying out this massacre, the answer for all to see is a simple one, it has to be Sheila.
“Photographs are vital in this case. In court the evidence given was that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila’s feet, but this was not the case. From the photographs I have in my possession blood spatter is evident on her left foot,
which would be entirely consistent with her having trodden in blood. This would suggest that a murder had been committed whilst she was alive and wandering around
Surely forensic examination of the bullets can tell whether or not the bullets used on Sheila went through a silencer or not?
Surely forensic examination of the bullets can tell whether or not the bullets used on Sheila went through a silencer or not?
You would think so but much of the ballistics was handled by a Malcolm Fletcher who worked for a Home Office lab (prosecution) who told the court at trial his relevant experience included "A small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy".Here we go again!... pull your perennial canard out of the hat. Malcolm Fletcher had a damn sight more experience of arms and ammunition than you.
In theory the defense should be in a position to carry out further forensic tests on the bullets but all trial exhibits excluding the rifle and silencer, were destroyed many moons ago.
Here we go again!... pull your perennial canard out of the hat. Malcolm Fletcher had a damn sight more experience of arms and ammunition than you.
Apparently, a suppressor doesn't mark the bullet.
Bamber supporter Mark Williams Thomas’s contribution https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/uploads/images/Bamber-Innocent-or-Guilty.pdf (https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/uploads/images/Bamber-Innocent-or-Guilty.pdf)Utterly incredible and astonishing! How can this self-styled "detective" get facts of this case so wrong?!
Excerpts (by Mark Williams Thomas):
“It is however this simple narrative that undermines the whole case, when carefully analysed and considered against what is known now. The Judge, quite correctly, stated that the murders were either carried out by Sheila Cafell or Jeremy, thereby ruling out a third-party involvement.
Given the brutal and frantic nature of the murders at the farm house it would be fair to assess that the killings took place when the killer was in some kind of frenzied or psychotic state. So, what was the mental background of the two suspects? Jeremy had no history of psychosis or mental illness, no drug or alcohol dependence, in fact Jeremy’s mental health both then and now is considered stable and balanced.
“However, when one asks the question, based solely on personalities and mental state, who had the present behaviour capable of carrying out this massacre, the answer for all to see is a simple one, it has to be Sheila.
“Photographs are vital in this case. In court the evidence given was that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila’s feet, but this was not the case. From the photographs I have in my possession blood spatter is evident on her left foot,
which would be entirely consistent with her having trodden in blood. This would suggest that a murder had been committed whilst she was alive and wandering around
Utterly incredible and astonishing! How can this self-styled "detective" get facts of this case so wrong?!He’s got more than this wrong in fact .Recently said a CCTV camera would have caught Madeleine McCann’s abductor if it hadn’t been switched off. In fact the tape had been wiped by the time detectives got to it .
From the belief that Nevill had been shot six times in the head, when he had received only four bullets there, as well as two to his jaw, one to his left shoulder and one to his left arm... to the utterly ludicrous assertion that Detective Superintendent Mike Ainsley thought Sheila Caffell was the culprit, whereas in fact he was a leader of the team which actually nailed and jailed Bamber!
He’s got more than this wrong in fact .Recently said a CCTV camera would have caught Madeleine McCann’s abductor if it hadn’t been switched off. In fact the tape had been wiped by the time detectives got to it .
McCann’
Utterly incredible and astonishing! How can this self-styled "detective" get facts of this case so wrong?!
From the belief that Nevill had been shot six times in the head, when he had received only four bullets there, as well as two to his jaw, one to his left shoulder and one to his left arm... to the utterly ludicrous assertion that Detective Superintendent Mike Ainsley thought Sheila Caffell was the culprit, whereas in fact he was a leader of the team which actually nailed and jailed Bamber!
Don’t you think Mark Newby is already part of the ‘cult’ that is the ‘wrongful conviction arena?’
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507
Don’t you think Mark Newby is already part of the ‘cult’ that is the ‘wrongful conviction arena?’
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507
Apparently, a suppressor doesn't mark the bullet.If that is the case then why do the police say a silencer was used? Sorry, I realise this is Bamber 101 to most of you.
Yes I understand what you are saying but imo Bambers burnt all his bridges as have the CT and the blue forum
I added ".......at the moment" purely because I've no idea what MIGHT happen in the future, Steph. With the CT giving their blessing to sick and thoughtless schemes, a forum who upholds him as a cross between Little Lord Fauntleroy and the Archangel Gabriel, and a legal team that seems to be struggling to put together anything cohesive, who knows what tomorrow may hold?
Jeremy Bamber quite clearly presents with a pathological need for attention, though unlike Ian Lawless he’s yet to confess to the murders
“Lawless was convicted of murder after making various "confessions" to third parties, including regulars in a pub and a taxi driver,
His conviction was later ruled unsafe after fresh medical evidence revealed he had a "pathological need for attention".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-21204099
Ian Lawless was represented by Mark Newby. More on Ian Lawless here https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/grimsby-town-fan-who-cleared-1187985
‘Friend’ of Jeremy Bamber Michael O’Brien of the so called Cardiff Newsagent 3 had his murder conviction quashed alongside his co defendants based on similar ‘fresh evidence’ to that in the Ian Lawless case.
Michael O’Brien stated earlier this year,
“We should also not forget the victims of crime in my case the killer is still free after 31 years and that bothers me just as much as my wrongful conviction.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/mobrien1967/status/1123860684058562561[/color]
Interesting how Michael O’Brien tells us ‘we should also not forget the victims of crime’ than focuses on ‘the killer’
Are these his unconscious thoughts perhaps? Is ‘the killer’ to whom Michael O’Brien refers the ‘victim’ he has become?
Why does Michael O’Brien support Jeremy Bamber? What’s his motivation?link to the above interview https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/richieallen/episodes/2018-02-13T13_09_38-08_00 (Starts at approx 35.00)
“Jeremy bamber has served 33 years in prison for a crime he did not commit join me tomorrow at 8pm on Richie Allen show to hear of the injustice done to him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mobrien1967/status/962975190274715649?lang=en-gb[/color]
Patron Michelle Diskin Bates claims, ‘In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead
Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@mindful_vinyl
and
@Bambertweets
I understand but I will watch-then I can point out every inaccuracy to my friends and others.
In 1982 I watched this unfold on the news throughout the night till I couldn’t stay up any longer. In the morning all were dead. Jeremy’s conviction made no sense-it still doesn’t 😡
2:36 PM · Dec 31, 2019·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1212019723665387520
Mark Newby
@MarkNewbyqsj
35m
ITV are scheduled to broadcast a drama series on Jeremy Bamber “White House Farm” . This is our statement on behalf of our client , in view of pending judicial review proceedings there will be no further comment
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkNewbyqsj/status/1206867123118706693
We will not be making any further comment in view of the ongoing case before the Court .
https://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/news/2019/12/jeremy-bamber-itv-drama-statement
Other evidence shows windows at the farm may have been opened after 3.30am and lights turned off between 4am and 5am.
"Mr Newby said: “Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.
These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566
Dear dear dear *&^^&
Matthew YoungMore like old damp squibs which burn themselves out than explosive new evidence.
@MatthewYoung7
EXCL Jeremy Bamber claims from his prison cell that new evidence proves there was life inside White House Farm while he was stood outside with police https://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566 (https://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566)
https://mobile.twitter.com/MatthewYoung7/status/1219387121326329857 (https://mobile.twitter.com/MatthewYoung7/status/1219387121326329857)
More like old damp squibs which burn themselves out than explosive new evidence.
Other evidence shows windows at the farm may have been opened after 3.30am and lights turned off between 4am and 5am.
"Mr Newby said: “Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.
These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-says-new-evidence-21321566
Dear dear dear *&^^&
If you propagate your deceitful message long enough and loud enough, the gullible will begin to believe it...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html)
If you propagate your deceitful message long enough and loud enough, the gullible will begin to believe it...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910941/Jeremy-Bamber-speaks-prison-say-ultimate-alibi-White-House-Farm-murders.html)
I’ve no doubts whatsoever this is a clear example of ‘innocent fraud.’
Solicitor advocate Mark Newby stated,
Dec 2019
“in view of pending judicial review proceedings there will be no further comment”
&
Jan 2020
“We will not be making any further comment in view of the ongoing case before the Court “
and now he’s apparently saying,
“Because I haven’t received evidence that contradicts it, I can’t necessarily say it isn’t anything other than it was Sheila.
These things shouldn’t have been happening at those times if it was Jeremy. So it causes a real worry.”
Messy
‘Asked how he felt about the current series, Bamber said: "The ITV drama is a disgrace.
It is being broadcast in the middle of a judicial review and is likely to interfere with the CPS being able to pursue the option of a retrial.
"It is promoted as 'a drama' as Carol Ann Lee's book that it's based upon is, for the most part, simply made up."
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/white-house-farm-labelled-a-disgrace-by-jeremy-bamber-1-6476355
‘Asked how he felt about the current series, Bamber said: "The ITV drama is a disgrace.
It is being broadcast in the middle of a judicial review and is likely to interfere with the CPS being able to pursue the option of a retrial.
"It is promoted as 'a drama' as Carol Ann Lee's book that it's based upon is, for the most part, simply made up."
Author Ms Lee, who handed over all her research notes to ITV for the company's work with the drama, said: "I fully appreciate he'll have an opinion on it, but it's just not true to say it's speculation," she said.
"Everything in the book is meticulously footnoted, there is a very small piece of speculation at the end when I discuss how the murders could have been carried out but I make it very clear that that is the case.
It {the series] is actually very fair to him. It's the story of his conviction and not the story of how he killed his family.
"The people making the decisions about Jeremy's future are not going to be swayed or influenced by how he is portrayed in an ITV drama."
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/white-house-farm-labelled-a-disgrace-by-jeremy-bamber-1-6476355
He can hardly call the Itv series a disgrace given his bake-off and graveside reading.
Gringo on blue claims, ‘newspapers use these linguistic tricks to deceive’
As do murderers like Jeremy Bamber
Maybe Gringo can give us all a lesson on how laws are created and changed and new precedents set
In the meantime https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=140724630727937&id=110855557048178&ref=page_internal (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=140724630727937&id=110855557048178&ref=page_internal)Good find! Well done to CAL for putting the record straight.
Carol Ann Lee states clearly,
“his campaign team have claimed he only wrote a handful of letters in return. Not true: I have a huge amount of letters from him...”
Caroline! Tell gringo to put a plug in his pretentious garbage before he makes himself look like a complete idiot.
It was Trudi Benjamin who gave the ‘graveside reading’ and the CT who appear to have organised the bake off - the CT which Trudi Benjamin is a part of
That ship sailed a while ago.The result of downing too many margaritas on a beach.
8(8-))
She claims the letter she was reading from JB. If this is so he clearly endorsed the whole thing:Pass me the sick bag...
https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4 (https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4)
Good find! Well done to CAL for putting the record straight.
Well we know his trademark block capitals which take up considerable space. I recall he once sent me several A4 pages of writing which arrived in two separate envelopes on the same day as the prison had some rule about a maximum number of pages per letter [envelope]. From memory I think the limit was either 4 or 5 pages. If he was under some misguided idea CAL was going to beat the drum for him he would be scribbling away like crazy and I can see how she might well have ended up with hundreds of pages amounting to a few letters but sent in numerous envelopes.
Pass me the sick bag...
Well we know his trademark block capitals which take up considerable space. I recall he once sent me several A4 pages of writing which arrived in two separate envelopes on the same day as the prison had some rule about a maximum number of pages per letter [envelope]. From memory I think the limit was either 4 or 5 pages. If he was under some misguided idea CAL was going to beat the drum for him he would be scribbling away like crazy and I can see how she might well have ended up with hundreds of pages amounting to a few letters but sent in numerous envelopes.Must have cost CAL a fortune in first-class stamps.
Is there anything about JB either initiating or endorsing the bake-off? Either way I blame the CT as these things would not have been possible without their assistance.Naah... Trudi just wanted to get shots of her vast kitchen replete with a WHF AGA, huge stainless-steel range cooker and Kenwood Chef on YouTube.
Unless you can provide evidence of this I’m of the opinion you made it up and are telling porkies
Must have cost CAL a fortune in first-class stamps.
You're free to think what you like.
How do you think prison officials screen outgoing mail for content and contraband if prisoners are allowed to send out hundreds of pages of paper in one envelope? Bearing in mind JB is cat A.
I'm not aware of any restrictions on ingoing mail.
I don’t believe ‘prison officials screen’ all “outgoing mail for content and contraband’
Aren’t you?
No I don't believe prison officials screen all outgoing mail for content and contraband just incoming and outgoing mail to cat A prisoners.
Then you are naive https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/prison-officer-exchanged-love-letters-and-sex-messages-inmate-wakefield-jail-320746
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/nurse-working-at-top-security-prison-had-sex-with-rapist-1-4910204
All letters, both incoming and outgoing, may be read in high security establishments.
All phone calls made by cat A prisoners are monitored.
Bearing in mind JB is on a whole life tariff I would think his conditions security wise are onerous.
Well we know his trademark block capitals which take up considerable space. I recall he once sent me several A4 pages of writing which arrived in two separate envelopes on the same day as the prison had some rule about a maximum number of pages per letter [envelope]. From memory I think the limit was either 4 or 5 pages. If he was under some misguided idea CAL was going to beat the drum for him he would be scribbling away like crazy and I can see how she might well have ended up with hundreds of pages amounting to a few letters but sent in numerous envelopes.
You're free to think what you like.
How do you think prison officials screen outgoing mail for content and contraband if prisoners are allowed to send out hundreds of pages of paper in one envelope? Bearing in mind JB is cat A.
Then you are naive https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/prison-officer-exchanged-love-letters-and-sex-messages-inmate-wakefield-jail-320746
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/nurse-working-at-top-security-prison-had-sex-with-rapist-1-4910204
All letters, both incoming and outgoing, may be read in high security establishments.
All phone calls made by cat A prisoners are monitored.
Bearing in mind JB is on a whole life tariff I would think his conditions security wise are onerous.
Prisoners have to leave the envelope open for checking.
I don't think they check all -but it is procedure to leave the envelope open. I imagine it depends on the prison and staffing levels.
She claims the letter she was reading from JB. If this is so he clearly endorsed the whole thing:
https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4
Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀 Retweeted
Trudi Benjamin
@tru68
3h
Please RT!!
Nevill Bamber called the police at 03.26am and #JeremyBamber called the police at 03.36am as the tragedies unfolded at White House Farm on 07.08.85.
#NewEvidence
#Innocent
#34years
#injustice
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/case
Anybody reading those logs will deduce, prima facie, that there were two callers not one. Again, that does not mean there were two callers. I may even agree with you that there was only one caller, but that is not what the logs say and remember, here we are considering not so much what we as individuals 'think', but the matter of legal doubt.
Mark Williams Thomas seems only interested in ££££££££££
She claims the letter she was reading from JB. If this is so he clearly endorsed the whole thing:
https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4
Bamber campaign calls on ITV to pull ‘dangerous drama’ by Jon Robins 9th Jan 2020
According to Bamber’s lawyer, Mark Newby said that they were concerned that that the drama would ‘place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS’.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bamber-campaign-calls-on-itv-to-pull-dangerous-drama/
Tuesday, 17 May 2011
"What Bob Woffinden didn't consider"
Those of you who read Bob Woffinden’s article yesterday might want to consider the following:
How does a telephone found by a witness during September over a month after the killings counteract the following evidence which he did not assess when making his judgements:
•It doesn’t illustrate that Sheila was not alive in the house
•It does not counteract the testimony of officers calling to her as they heard her moving around
•Why doesn’t his investigation show that Sheila was not found downstairs in the kitchen
•What of the numerous independent logs stating that the body of a man and a women were found in the kitchen is he proposing that a woman dead for over seven and a half hours moved herself upstairs from the kitchen?
•How does it counteract the conversation with someone inside the farm?
•What about the police outside for almost four hours with a megaphone?
•And of the movement in the window seen by Bews?
•How does he explain the ‘siege’ situation?
•How does the phone explain a dead woman bleeding for over seven hours photographed with her blood still wet?
•And what about the hour missing from the radio logs at the scene why would that be?
•What about the handwritten statements and pocket books from the scene which remain undisclosed?
•How does a telephone in the 2002 appeal ruling have any bearing on evidence released since 2004?
And of course finally why doesn't Bob address the sound moderator which was found tampered with and all of the documents backdated. How can one sound moderator be in two places at once?
Remember Bob did not present a piece based on balanced research, he did not have access to the comprehensive number of Defence documents, despite us offering them to him several times.
To find out the truth based on the evidence about the phones at WHF click here
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Tuesday, May 17, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/search?q=bob+woffinden
Will be interesting to see how Bamber’s supporters react to ‘crime writer’ Gayle Curtis’ musings
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/jeremy-bambers-revealing-letter-jail-17634522
Bamber writes (12th Dec 2014)
“It is never easy to figure out what it is that could be seen as the worst situation I’ve ever had to cope with. I think that the 7th August 1985 and having to support and care for my cousins Jacqueline and Anthony, my brother in law Colin and the others at my house, whilst having to cope with my own grief over the death of my mum and dad, Sheila the boys Daniel and Nicholas couple with that with grief for letting my dad down in not being able to come to his rescue and confusion over what on earth could have gone so terribly wrong
The effect of that day has been life changing as I’ve been tasked with defending my mum and dads reputation. So many people who have made out that they were so close to my mum and dad and loved them so much have spent 30 years doing everything possible to denigrate my mum and dads characters, doing so to false create a motive for them having been murdered. I have had to put the record straight about what my mum and dad were really like. I am proud to be their son and proud to be setting records straight about what lovely people they were
As to what has stayed with me, a sense of guilt of about what if. That moment at 04.00am when PC Bews, PC Myall and myself watched the silhouette of someone walking in front of the master bedroom window, the main light in the bedroom was on, the curtains completely open - when PC Bews ran back to the police car with PC Myall and myself running after him, why didn’t we run up to the back door and not towards the police car could we have broken in and saved someone or everyone. Why was I so compliant in the presence of police officers so that I did whatever they wanted?
Why was I such a let down and such a weak character when faced with things that morning? It’s left me feeling ashamed for letting my family down when they obviously needed me the most.
Though my life has been filled with trials and tribulations and no doubt there will be many more yet to come.
Have a great Christmas.
Jeremy
Remember Bob did not present a piece based on balanced research, he did not have access to the comprehensive number of Defence documents, despite us offering them to him several times.(But Mike T did)
He may have ‘endorsed’ the ‘whole thing’ but was it Trudi Benjamin’s idea or his?
She once wrote to Russel Brand - was that Bamber’s idea?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176
Afaik JB has never pulled a stunt like this previously so it may well have been TB's/CT's idea but I guess they run it by JB beforehand. Utterly deluded if they thought anything positive would come from it in terms of campaigning for JB. All it did was generate negative publicity rightly so imo.
Russell Brand @)(++(* How is RB going to convince 3 appeal court judges that JB's conviction is unsafe?
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/jeremy-bamber-acts-agony-aunt-21389718
•And of the movement in the window seen by Bews?
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Tuesday, May 17, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/search?q=bob+woffinden
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/jeremy-bambers-revealing-letter-jail-17634522
Bamber writes (12th Dec 2014)
That moment at 04.00am when PC Bews, PC Myall and myself watched the silhouette of someone walking in front of the master bedroom window, the main light in the bedroom was on, the curtains completely open - when PC Bews ran back to the police car with PC Myall and myself running after him,
What year did Bamber tell ‘the media he heard gunfire in the house’ ?
@Bambertweets You are wasting your time #Bamber lied and told the media he heard gunfire in the house BUT NOT the police !
3 years later it’s seen by 3 of them *&^^& 4 if you include Michelle Diskin Bates
Trudi Benjamin appears to have missed this Freudian slip, though suspect she was too busy defending Bamber following Bob Woffinden’s claims
Michael O'Brien has come out to play.
Mike popped out for a nibble recently. Hope to see Andrew Hunter & Trudie soon.
The tweet was from 2015 Adam
Carol Ann Lee, the author of The Murders at White House Farm, which partly inspired the new ITV series #WhiteHouseFarm, tells @BenFryer & @sonwatson, Jeremy Bamber is a “compelling character”CAL, like Caroline, witnessed Bamber's obstructive and secretive nature. Happy that she's jumped off the fence onto the correct side.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214827354016636928 (https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214827354016636928)
Worth a listen
Former Essex Police officer, David Bright, who was a DI at the time of the White House Farm murders in 1985, says police officers did a good job in getting the evidence to convict Jeremy Bamber, who was a “good actor and liar”
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214830718423117825 (https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1214830718423117825)
CAL setting the record straight https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0 (https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0)So he can curse in cursive after all!...
Separating fact from fiction
So he can curse in cursive after all!...
Well spotted! Although I spotted the 'hundreds' of letters I missed that he hadn't used caps. Wonder why the change?Just another one of his secrets he keeps in reserve for good-looking gals...
CAL setting the record straight https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0 (https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0)Bamber's Fanny Club fantasy and CAL's copious collection...
Separating fact from fiction
CAL setting the record straight https://m.facebook.com/pg/CarolAnnLeeAuthor/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0
Separating fact from fiction
Bamber's Fanny Club fantasy and CAL's copious collection...
Back Porch Media Productions
@media_porch
Jan 30
Having studied this case I truly cannot believe he is still in prison Robin Garbutt is the victim here!! Missing clump of hair from evidence, the man was a scapegoat pure and simple
https://mobile.twitter.com/media_porch/status/1222948613271232519
Black porch media productions claim on their website;
‘We research and produce documentaries, screen plays and films. We are currently working to produce a documentary to expose the failings of the British Justice System in regard to a terrible miscarriage of justice against ...
https://backporchmediaprod.wixsite.com/website
Black porch media productions claim here https://www.starnow.co.uk/backporchmediaproductions there are a ‘growing production compamy’
To date they have produced - nothing
A pity. Thought some old buddies were saying 'hi'.
So he can curse in cursive after all!...
JB recently said he only wrote to CAL six times
I know he’s a pathological liar, but surely he must realise how wails you he can get tripped up?
Is he unintelligent for a psychopath?
JB recently said he only wrote to CAL six times
I know he’s a pathological liar, but surely he must realise how wails you he can get tripped up?
Is he unintelligent for a psychopath?
The CT have claimed this but if Bamber fed them that info, the recent pictures published by CAL prove he's a liar.
Where has he said how many times he wrote to CAL?
I exchanged about 20 pieces of correspondence with him over about 6 years. The longest was about 8 pages in capitals and the shortest were notes, again in capitals, on small cards. I formed the opinion he had no idea about the aspects of the case I was interested in.
How have you arrived at the decision he's a pathological liar and psychopath?
Hender certainly likes washing his dirty underpants in public. Yet more crap...
https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/08/jeremy-bamber-the-gross-injustice-of-his-conviction-due-to-the-inept-and-corrupt-essex-police/)
A nice little earner...
https://davidhender.life/2020/02/19/i-am-not-the-only-one-to-be-stitched-up-by-the-police-jeremy-bamber-has-too-updated/ (https://davidhender.life/2020/02/19/i-am-not-the-only-one-to-be-stitched-up-by-the-police-jeremy-bamber-has-too-updated/)
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"
Who?
I looked it up and got Trudi Benjamin. I've no idea who that is.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsUyH-5t3S4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsUyH-5t3S4)
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"
I looked it up and got Trudi Benjamin. I've no idea who that is.
I looked it up and got Trudi Benjamin. I've no idea who that is.
Neither has Eleanor Roosevelt.
The must have held a seance @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"
The Illusory Truth Effect: Why We Believe Fake News, Conspiracy Theories and Propaganda
Excerpts:
“The illusory truth effect comes down to processing fluency. When a thought is easier to process, it requires our brains to use less energy, which leads us to prefer it.
“The illusory truth effect is one factor in why fabricated news stories sometimes gain traction and have a wide impact. When this happens, our knee-jerk reaction can be to assume that anyone who believes fake news must be unusually gullible or outright stupid. Evan Davis writes in Post Truth,
“Never before has there been a stronger sense that fellow citizens have been duped and that we are all suffering the consequences of their intellectual vulnerability.”
As Davis goes on to write, this assumption isn’t helpful for anyone. We can’t begin to understand why people believe seemingly ludicrous news stories until we consider some of the psychological reasons why this might happen.
Fake news falls under the umbrella of “information pollution,” which also includes news items that misrepresent information, take it out of context, parody it, fail to check facts or do background research, or take claims from unreliable sources at face value. Some of this news gets published on otherwise credible, well-respected news sites due to simple oversight. Some goes on parody sites that never purport to tell the truth, yet are occasionally mistaken for serious reporting. Some shows up on sites that replicate the look and feel of credible sources, using similar web design and web addresses. And some fake news comes from sites dedicated entirely to spreading misinformation, without any pretense of being anything else.
A lot of information pollution falls somewhere in between the extremes that tend to get the most attention. It’s the result of people being overworked or in a hurry and unable to do the due diligence that reliable journalism requires. It’s what happens when we hastily tweet something or mention it in a blog post and don’t realize it’s not quite true. It extends to miscited quotes, doctored photographs, fiction books masquerading as memoirs, or misleading statistics.
The signal to noise ratio is so skewed that we have a hard time figuring out what to pay attention to and what we should ignore. No one has time to verify everything they read online. No one. (And no, offline media certainly isn’t perfect either.) Our information processing capabilities are not infinite and the more we consume, the harder it becomes to assess its value.
Moreover, we’re often far outside our circle of competence, reading about topics we don’t have the expertise in to assess accuracy in any meaningful way. This drip-drip of information pollution is not harmless. Like air pollution, it builds up over time and the more we’re exposed to it, the more likely we are to end up picking up false beliefs which are then hard to shift. For instance, a lot of people believe that crime, especially the violent kind, is on an upward trend year by year—in a 2016 study by Pew Research, 57% of Americans believed crime had worsened since 2008. This despite violent crime having actually fallen by nearly a fifth during that time. This false belief may stem from the fact that violent crime receives a disproportional amount of media coverage, giving it wide and repeated exposure.
Read more here https://fs.blog/2020/02/illusory-truth-effect/
"Michael Naughton says:
April 6, 2016 at 4:15 pm
References to INUK are incorrect and unnecessary and merely detract from an otherwise reasonable letter, imho.
Don’t you agree that it is time to move on (INUK ceased member ship in 2014 and its reasons are well documented and fully transparent on the INUK website) and be judged by your own deeds and their outcomes as any other independent entity?
Re your own transparency: how many cases are you working on? (I do know how many INUK referred to you in the 8 years Sheffield was a member). How long have you been working on them? How many requests/applications have you made to the police or CPS for access to exhibits or biological samples for testing by new techniques? How many applications have you made to the CCRC on behalf of clients? How many were referred back to the Court of Appeal? How many were overturned? etc.
Is this not what really matters to innocent victims of wrongful convictions and imprisonment and their families and the test of a successful and effective cle enterprise?
Claire McGourlay says:
April 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm
Although this letter was not an open letter about you here is our answer to you.
Since you took an arbitrary decision two years ago to close down the network that linked innocence projects (rather than reform it into a democratic mutual support organization), you are not entitled to statistics from us (particularly when you tweet about how useless we all are-very unnecessary in my opinion and I can’t reply as you have blocked me and my students) and yes we have moved on and are doing very well indeed.
We have no fear of transparency, so here is some information.
You'll never guess who wrote this tripe... "Eleanor Roosevelt Supporting Jeremy Bamber"
It must have been the wrong time of the month for a period.
I think Elenore Roosevelt is simply responsible for the quote of “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both” - There should be a full stop before 'supporting Jeremy Bamber @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
It must have been the wrong time of the month for a period.
The words flogging and a dead horse come to mind...
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5364656/white-house-farm-murder-scots-forensics-expert/ (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5364656/white-house-farm-murder-scots-forensics-expert/)
"White House Farm - The Sequel" from Wakefield's star attention-seeker?...
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412)
"White House Farm - The Sequel" from Wakefield's star attention-seeker?...
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412)
So, if JB and his campaigners manage to make this documentary, are you all going to watch it?
Ah, so he DID watch the drama then?
On Twitter he told his campaigners he wasn’t going to watch as he wasn’t interested in the “nonsense”
It’s funny how he’s always discovering “new” evidence, which is always the “suicide note” that never existed, or the “phone call from Nevill to the police” which never happened, either
Most cons have access to a phone inside, even ones in the Isolation Wing. You can buy just about any contraband within reason. There's every chance he's got a phone and watched it.
Would he have been allowed to watch it? I might be wrong, but I would imagine he didn't see it, but that some of his supporters told him all about it.
Would he have been allowed to watch it? I might be wrong, but I would imagine he didn't see it, but that some of his supporters told him all about it.
Most cons have access to a phone inside, even ones in the Isolation Wing. You can buy just about any contraband within reason. There's every chance he's got a phone and watched it.He might have a personal TV and watched WHF to compare his funeral performance to Freddie's...
"White House Farm - The Sequel" from Wakefield's star attention-seeker?...
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/killer-jeremy-bamber-helping-documentary-21861412)
So, if JB and his campaigners manage to make this documentary, are you all going to watch it?
Would he have been allowed to watch it? I might be wrong, but I would imagine he didn't see it, but that some of his supporters told him all about it.
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:
“Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.
We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/
In contrast
Someone tweeted
“The @MoJGovUK has decided now not to specify which prisons have new confirmed covid 19 cases I wonder why this? Is this to block any media attention? Prisoners & prison staff are the forgotten victims in the pandemic shame on u
@RobertBuckland @PGA_Prisons @DannyShawBBC @POAUnion
So, if JB and his campaigners manage to make this documentary, are you all going to watch it?
I doubt any production company would waste money and embarrass themselves in the process, by making a documentary allowing JB to twist his version of events: it’d be a laughing stock.#
I’d watch it, though. For a laugh...
I bet Jeremy would try to be the director if he could; maybe even play himself? He said he should have been an actor (&^&
If he could play himself, he’d definitely instruct the wardrobe to fit him out in bespoke suits, silk ties, gold cufflinks etc...and he’d be very precious about the make-up 😤 He’d also instruct the cameras to capture his “good side”, just like he hoped the press/TV would when he attended his parents and Sheila’s funerals.
#
I suspect JB stopped being fussy about his attire long ago. He is more interested in attempting to prove his innocence. I don't think that's laughable: he either does it because he really is innocent, or he does it because he has some kind of personality disorder that leads him to think he is when he isn't.
This forum isn't typical: look at others, and you will find that believing in JB's innocence, or being unsure one way or the other, is not as uncommon as you might think. Just my opinion, but I think a TV programme showing the case from his point of view would be popular enough. Some would be watching it just for a laugh, as you say, but many wouldn't.
Poppy Ann Miller
“I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television”
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller
Barbara De'Ath
“I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site
“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.
“Jeremy was a normal young man, he was NOT a womanizer, it was the other way round.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death
Trudi Benjamin
“When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent (sic)
“I had followed it in the media from day one
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru
Is Bamber the author of this bs or someone else and if so, who?
‘Suzette Ford made two statements, the second of which was a handwritten interview which was never presented in court. Suzette was not asked to testify in court as a character witness for Jeremy, nor indeed were any of his friends or people who may have provided a positive account of him and a negative account of Sheila. There are many other statements from people who knew Jeremy well and gave a warm account of him but who were never called as witnesses. The mind boggles as to why these witnesses were not called as character witnesses. One can only speculate that perhaps Jeremy’s Lawyer, Paul Terzeon of Kingsley Napley, Geoffrey Rivlin then QC, and Edmund Lawson QC, had thought that three key Defence witnesses were not suitable for the pallet of the jury; Suzette Ford a married woman from Jersey with whom Jeremy had had an affair, Brett Collins a New Zealander and homosexual, and the Iranian immigrant Farhad Emami would not make good witnesses because all three were considered outside of the social norms. Civilian witnesses for the prosecution on the other hand included conventionally married couples and conservative individuals who were all either English, middle class or well educated/professionals.[1]
https://jeremybamber.org/character-witnesses/
“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.
Poppy Ann Miller
“I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television”
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller
Barbara De'Ath
“I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site
“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.
“Jeremy was a normal young man, he was NOT a womanizer, it was the other way round.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death
Trudi Benjamin
“When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent (sic)
“I had followed it in the media from day one
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru
One thing you can always be sure of amongst his supporters is you’ll get a good laugh at how they view him @)(++(*
To compare Jeremy Bamber to the royal family she’s hw seriously deluded they are!
I’ve read various quotes which I suspect have been written by the arrogant, egotistical Jeremy Bamber himself, who’s ordered one of his “staff” to publish it under a pseudonym. The surname D’Arth isn’t dissimilar to D’Arcy, and trolls often use names that have a subliminal connection to themselves...I’d throw a tenner on that being him.
His other post where he writes as himself thanking people for all their “kind emails & letters” in respect of the Corona virus is similar to that. He acts as though he’s some kind of hero who’s held in the highest esteem (&^& (&^&
Barbara De'Ath
“I became interested in the case in recent years because in 1983 my husband and myself bought a caravan down at the Osea Road site
“Because of the status of the Bamber’s in the area the interest in the family was similar to our interest in the royal family and some of us like nothing better than some decent gossip about them, some like us don’t give a pigs burp about any of it, but in Maldon the Bamber’s were often the talk of the town.
“Jeremy was a normal young man, he was NOT a womanizer, it was the other way round.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death
De'Ath isn’t a pseudonym in this instance
Here’s ‘Barbara De'Ath on the Osea Caravan Park (Osea Leisure) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NX3lLfl6VCI
Barbara De'Ath has uploaded a photo of herself in the above you tube video and anyone who knows her will most probably recognise her voice
Unfortunately someone’s even added her children’s names to the video - with photos of them when they were young? (Hope they got the kids permission to do that)
On gossip - Barbara says ’some of us don’t give a pigs burb about any of it’
Barbara De'Ath sounds like she has an ‘axe to grind’ with the surviving family - her bias is clear
According to her there was a change of management style following the case, with more emphasis on profit.According to her Bamber was ‘normal’
According to her Bamber was ‘normal’
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%40GrumpyGran1948%20Bamber&src=typed_query
Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
One families experiences at the Bamber's Osea Caravan Park... #JeremyBamber
@GrumpyGran1948
https://youtu.be/NX3lLfl6VCI via
@YouTube
9:07 AM · Sep 17, 2016·Twitter Web Client
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:
“Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.
We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/
The dirty side of prison; cleaning after a dirty protest
“In the UK, prison authorities are responsible for the welfare of inmates during their detainment. This includes the provision of hygienic prison and holding cells. While it’s not always possible to stop a dirty protest from happening, it is essential for the clean up and disinfection of the affected areas as soon as possible to help prevent the spread of disease, which is a particular risk in confined spaces like prisons.
Tuberculosis, HIV, and Hepatitis C are just some of the risks to prison staff and other inmates during a dirty protest where bodily fluids, including blood and faeces, are smeared across cell walls or even communal areas.
Cleaning the affected areas requires specialist personal protective equipment (PPE) and the necessary products and equipment to fully clean and sanatise the areas.
https://www.idealresponse.co.uk/blog/the-dirty-side-of-prison-cleaning-after-a-dirty-protest/
De'Ath isn’t a pseudonym in this instance
Here’s ‘Barbara De'Ath on the Osea Caravan Park (Osea Leisure) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NX3lLfl6VCI
Barbara De'Ath has uploaded a photo of herself in the above you tube video and anyone who knows her will most probably recognise her voice
Unfortunately someone’s even added her children’s names to the video - with photos of them when they were young? (Hope they got the kids permission to do that)
On gossip - Barbara says ’some of us don’t give a pigs burb about any of it’
According to her there was a change of management style following the case, with more emphasis on profit.
She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?
I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢
If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤
She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?
I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢
If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤
She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?
I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢
If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤
If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤
“Urine, blood, vomit, and faeces. Smeared over prison cell walls, floors, and ceilings. It sounds like the aftermath of something traumatic, let alone a situation prisoners have deliberately created.
But that’s exactly what a dirty protest is” https://www.idealresponse.co.uk/blog/the-dirty-side-of-prison-cleaning-after-a-dirty-protest/
Some prisoners also smear it over themselves
Think about that for a minute
Bamber chose to do this
She never even knew the Bambers; how can she say Jeremy could be innocent?
I think she’s miffed that they put the rent up, that’s her beef. And I doubt the Boutflours/Eatons gave a pig's burp they lost her rental income 🤢
If it’s true he showed no interest in those young girls in their bikinis when he was 22, maybe he was looking in a different direction....but he wouldn’t have wanted a fling with someone holidaying in a caravan anyway — he was royalty!😤
I have to admit, it disgusts me too.
I have to admit, it disgusts me too.
You do scrape the bottom!!
I've kept it for DNA purposes if it's ever needed in the future to clear his name
What about Bamber and his ‘dirty protests’ ?
Imagine all the DNA Bamber willingly gave Up during his ‘dirty protests’
Who was visiting him around this time or communicating with him?
Is Bamber the author of this bs or someone else and if so, who?
‘Suzette Ford made two statements, the second of which was a handwritten interview which was never presented in court. Suzette was not asked to testify in court as a character witness for Jeremy, nor indeed were any of his friends or people who may have provided a positive account of him and a negative account of Sheila. There are many other statements from people who knew Jeremy well and gave a warm account of him but who were never called as witnesses. The mind boggles as to why these witnesses were not called as character witnesses. One can only speculate that perhaps Jeremy’s Lawyer, Paul Terzeon of Kingsley Napley, Geoffrey Rivlin then QC, and Edmund Lawson QC, had thought that three key Defence witnesses were not suitable for the pallet of the jury; Suzette Ford a married woman from Jersey with whom Jeremy had had an affair, Brett Collins a New Zealander and homosexual, and the Iranian immigrant Farhad Emami would not make good witnesses because all three were considered outside of the social norms. Civilian witnesses for the prosecution on the other hand included conventionally married couples and conservative individuals who were all either English, middle class or well educated/professionals.[1]
https://jeremybamber.org/character-witnesses/
In what year were Bamber’s ‘dirty protests’ and what has he told the CT & his supporters about them?
Would the professional and compassionate prison officers, who had to clean up after him, remember the dates ?
And how much ‘specialist personal protective equipment’ PPE is used up during the clean ups?
What has Bamber said about these protests and of the risks he put these officers under?
Does Aunt Agatha know?
Trudi Benjamin?
Anyone?
Have I read this correctly, Nicholas?
Is this Jeremy Bamber wearing his “normal” mask discussing how he smeared his own faeces on walls for prison staff to clean up?!
He’s speaking as though it’s him who’s the prisoner governor!
!
“Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.
We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/
Have I read this correctly, Nicholas?
Is this Jeremy Bamber wearing his “normal” mask discussing how he smeared his own faeces on walls for prison staff to clean up?!
He’s speaking as though it’s him who’s the prisoner governor!
!
“Urine, blood, vomit, and faeces. Smeared over prison cell walls, floors, and ceilings. It sounds like the aftermath of something traumatic, let alone a situation prisoners have deliberately created.
But that’s exactly what a dirty protest is” https://www.idealresponse.co.uk/blog/the-dirty-side-of-prison-cleaning-after-a-dirty-protest/
Some prisoners also smear it over themselves
Think about that for a minute
Bamber chose to do this
Would this have occurred to Barbara De’Ath ?
Despite the gossip I have seen no evidence that he wasn't.
Did he have a girlfriend around this time?
What’s ‘dignified’ about this?
Did he smear feaces on himself too?
I imagine that the vast majority of people who have a view of any sort regarding this case, did not know the Bambers.
Have I read this correctly, Nicholas?
Is this Jeremy Bamber wearing his “normal” mask discussing how he smeared his own faeces on walls for prison staff to clean up?!
He’s speaking as though it’s him who’s the prisoner governor!
!
Possibly...
Maybe Agatha knows about it?
Maybe he wanted to sound like the prison governor ?
Oh, absolutely
But it’s the hypocrisy of him...and how he thinks everyone is thick
His Personality Disorder is more extreme than some people realise
Oh, absolutely
But it’s the hypocrisy of him...and how he thinks everyone is thick
His Personality Disorder is more extreme than some people realise
How would you have seen any evidence, G-Unit?
Even people who DID see him/know him only saw the mask he wore for them. He’s hardly going to show his true colours to people. Psychopaths excel at hiding them.
His hypocrisy when he talks about it in his mundane blog, shows how twisted his mind is. He talks like a concerned governor, but conveniently “forgets” to mention he was one of the culprits who smeared his own sh*t on the walls for prison staff to clean up. He’s revolting on every level.
Bamber simply demonstrates how blood, urine, faeces etc doesn’t bother him; after all, he’d been surrounded by blood when he massacred his family — even saw his dad’s brain exposed — so he may have even enjoyed the dirty protests. Brought back “thrilling” memories for him...
Bet he downplays these facts to his supporters, minimising them
What excuses has he given I wonder?
Oh, absolutely
But it’s the hypocrisy of him...and how he thinks everyone is thick
His Personality Disorder is more extreme than some people realise
It does demonstrate that he isn't the nice, upper middle class boy that he tries to portray.
Mike O’Brien on Bamber,
“He stood out for me, and he seemed lost just like I once was when I first went to prison”
https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177
So everything you say about him is mere speculation based on no evidence at all.
Don’t suppose she’s thought about it or considered it’s possible significance ?
Can’t say I blame her, imagining a grown adult like Bamber (with no mental health issues remember) someone you ‘care about’ covering themselves and the walls in excrement isn’t a very nice thought nor is it pleasant to witness and then to have to imagine someone else, a complete stranger having to clean up after him?
Wonder if whoever cleaned up after him were physically sick afterwards?
I wonder if he washed that pony tail before giving it to Agatha?
Was it even his?
It’s a very strange story as I’ve been reliable informed that inmates can’t give visitors gifts, nor send them...maybe he’s into smuggling now.
Back to him smearing his faeces on walls and his naked body; did he say what he was protesting at? He isn’t a political prisoner. So what was his beef?
I suspect he just enjoyed it, and got a sadistic kick out of knowing the prison staff had to be subjected to the stench and sight of what he rubbed all over the walls and his body, and knowing they’d have to wear PPE to clean it all up.
‘For as rigidly constricted as the narcissist’s character structure is, their fabricated, super-sized “false self” still requires the assistance of others to remain securely (though artificially) inflated.
In what year were Bamber’s ‘dirty protests’ and what has he told the CT & his supporters about them?
Would the professional and compassionate prison officers, who had to clean up after him, remember the dates ?
And how much ‘specialist personal protective equipment’ PPE is used up during the clean ups?
What has Bamber said about these protests and of the risks he put these officers under?
Does Aunt Agatha know?
Trudi Benjamin?
Anyone?
*&^^&
“Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Replying to @GeenErica
Hopefully another day nearer to justice. Thinking of you all.
R v Benjamin David Geen
https://bengeen.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/geen-judgment.pdf
“He was fond of self-aggrandisement," Mr Austin-Smith told the jury.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.crime
“Detective Superintendent Andy Taylor, who led the murder investigation, said: "Ben Geen abused this position of trust.
"We may never know what motivated him to select and poison his victims.
"It is clear that he wanted to be the centre of attention and in order to fuel this desire, brought some of his patients to the brink of death and coldly murdered two of them."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4918462.stm
Sorry to go off topic, but is Ben the son of Trudie Benjamin?
No it’s another case she supports
Well, I quickly read some of Ben’s appeal hearing, and he’s clearly guilty.
Does Trudie have a habit of trying to get convicted mass murderers freed?
The difference between you and me, G-Unit, is I'm basing my opinions on the FACTS I’ve read about him, including him being found Guilty on five counts of murder, two failed appeals; one failed appeal at the Human Rights Court; his previous conviction for burglary & theft; him growing and dealing in drugs; his callous behaviour after the deaths; how he sold off valuables which weren’t yet his; how he tried to sell Sheila’s nude photos for £20k to The Sun, not considering the humiliation & betrayal when she’d only been dead over a week — effectively “dancing on her grave” after he’d killed her; killing off June’s dog; partying, holidaying, laughing, gorging on expensive meals, downing Champagne when his family had only been dead just days — and all those who knew him well and said what a horrible cold calculating character he had.
Your views aren’t based on any of those irrefutable FACTS: your views are based on fairytales, dreams, and lies you want to believe so your bubble of fantasy isn’t burst
I though psychopaths wore a mask hiding their true nature? He wasn't a very good one then if he failed to fool all those who knew him.There’s no such thing as a good psychopath.
I though psychopaths wore a mask hiding their true nature? He wasn't a very good one then if he failed to fool all those who knew him.
Wouldn't be surprised in the least if this originated in HMP Full Sutton.
?
A “good” psychopath ?!
G-Unit, Jeremy Bamber is a psychopath — he’s just not a particularly bright one.
He can fool the gullible, though....
So psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, but Jeremy Bamber wasn't?Ultimately no he wasn’t- he’s been in prison for the last 35 years, ergo he was found out.
One of the main traits of the psychopathic brain type is manipulation; they are much better at it than the general population.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-psychopaths-think-theyre-successfully-fooling-people-in-their-minds
*&^^&
“Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Replying to @GeenErica
Hopefully another day nearer to justice. Thinking of you all.
R v Benjamin David Geen
https://bengeen.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/geen-judgment.pdf
“He was fond of self-aggrandisement," Mr Austin-Smith told the jury.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.crime
“Detective Superintendent Andy Taylor, who led the murder investigation, said: "Ben Geen abused this position of trust.
"We may never know what motivated him to select and poison his victims.
"It is clear that he wanted to be the centre of attention and in order to fuel this desire, brought some of his patients to the brink of death and coldly murdered two of them."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4918462.stm
Yes, Crimes That Shook Britain have already gone over the so called. 'new evidence' - that's how I became interested, it doesn't take long to see through. it though - if you're really open minded that is!
I watched the above last night, and it didn't make me in any way certain that JB is guilty.
I don't know this case well, by any stretch of the imagination, but am I supposed to think the "new evidence" (phone logs, police logs, etc) are all fake? As far as I could see, IF they are genuine, they really do cast doubt on JB's guilt. I'm trying to be open minded, but Nevill could have phoned the police, and there could have been a conversation with somebody inside the farm , according to these documents, IF they are genuine. The argument I often hear, that "inside the farm" doesn't actually mean "inside the farmhouse" , but "inside the grounds", could be taken either way, IMO. All depends how one wants to read it.
Any idea why this stuff has come to light so long after the event? How did it come to be released? Or, has someone really just invented it?
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:
“Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.
We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
Apr 14
We need to know how many people in prison, both prisoners and prison staff, have: 1. Contracted coronavirus; 2. Died of coronavirus; and, 3. Recovered from coronavirus. We have a democratic right to this data and to know what is being done about it. Why will they not tell us?
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
9h
This data & the data on deaths of prisoners & staff from coronavirus strengthens & adds to the fears about coronavirus in prisons. Those who have a duty of care to protect against such foreseeable & avoidable deaths, & those that will surely follow, need to be held to account.
Could this be why he was requesting it maybe?
He has 377 Followers (many of whom appear vulnerable) and is Following 21
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
Prisons cannot cope at the best of times & are totally unequipped to protect prisoners or staff from contracting &/or dying from coronavirus. There has been sufficient time for those in authority to act but they have chosen not to. Can anything be done to prevent the inevitable?
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
I am at a total loss to know what to say or do. It has become increasingly evident that the lives of prisoners & prison staff do not matter & the democratic process for trying to get government to fulfil its duty & protect against the deleterious impacts of coronavirus is a myth.
I watched the above last night, and it didn't make me in any way certain that JB is guilty.
I don't know this case well, by any stretch of the imagination, but am I supposed to think the "new evidence" (phone logs, police logs, etc) are all fake? As far as I could see, IF they are genuine, they really do cast doubt on JB's guilt. I'm trying to be open minded, but Nevill could have phoned the police, and there could have been a conversation with somebody inside the farm , according to these documents, IF they are genuine. The argument I often hear, that "inside the farm" doesn't actually mean "inside the farmhouse" , but "inside the grounds", could be taken either way, IMO. All depends how one wants to read it.
Any idea why this stuff has come to light so long after the event? How did it come to be released? Or, has someone really just invented it?
I think the paperwork is genuine but personally I see it as evidence of sloppiness and poor communication as opposed to anything else.
The paperwork purporting to be a tel call from NB is almost certainly info regurgitated internally from one source ie JB.
There's not a shred of evidence that anyone within the farmhouse communicated with anyone outside.
There's also a police log which states one male and one female in the kitchen. This was based on PC Collins putting his head above above the parapet to take a look at the kitchen. It seems he mistook NB for SC. When the firearms team entered shortly afterwards PC Collins realised NB was in fact male and radioed through to communicate this fact. Hence a log details one female and one male in kitchen.
Unlike today officers were not wearing body cams but relying on walkie talkies where they commincated events to a note taker elsewhere.
All sorts of lurid theories exist that SC shot herself once in the kitchen and then again upstairs which Dr Vanezis and the defence pathologist ruled out.
Mike Tesko on the Blue forum has even suggested the police shot SC which again doesn't fit with any of the ballistics and pathological evidence.
mrswah you asked why I don't rate SL's book and its in part because he believed at the time of writing that these aspects support JB when there's no basis for them.
They're worth mentioning because they show by today's standards it was very poor in terms of paperwork and communication but that's it. To suggest they're evidence of anything else muddies the water and makes JB/his case look very weak after 35 years.
I believe all the above points have been fully investigated by CCRC and rejected.
It's similar to what the police considered to be movement at the window subsequently written off as a 'trick of the light'. No one will ever know whether it was a trick of the light or some other thing or person. The time for beating the drum about this was at trial but I don't believe the defence did. But now JB claims this is his alibi that the movement was SC. This is the reason I believe BC turned against him. Its not an alibi because it was never proved what or who it was. Never mind a trick of the light it puts JB and his case in a poor light if that's the best you can come up with after 35 years. 8(8-))
IMO JB has a poor understanding of his case and surrounds himself with people who tell him what he wants to hear.
I think the paperwork is genuine but personally I see it as evidence of sloppiness and poor communication as opposed to anything else.
The paperwork purporting to be a tel call from NB is almost certainly info regurgitated internally from one source ie JB.
There's not a shred of evidence that anyone within the farmhouse communicated with anyone outside.
There's also a police log which states one male and one female in the kitchen. This was based on PC Collins putting his head above above the parapet to take a look at the kitchen. It seems he mistook NB for SC. When the firearms team entered shortly afterwards PC Collins realised NB was in fact male and radioed through to communicate this fact. Hence a log details one female and one male in kitchen.
Unlike today officers were not wearing body cams but relying on walkie talkies where they commincated events to a note taker elsewhere.
All sorts of lurid theories exist that SC shot herself once in the kitchen and then again upstairs which Dr Vanezis and the defence pathologist ruled out.
Mike Tesko on the Blue forum has even suggested the police shot SC which again doesn't fit with any of the ballistics and pathological evidence.
mrswah you asked why I don't rate SL's book and its in part because he believed at the time of writing that these aspects support JB when there's no basis for them.
They're worth mentioning because they show by today's standards it was very poor in terms of paperwork and communication but that's it. To suggest they're evidence of anything else muddies the water and makes JB/his case look very weak after 35 years.
I believe all the above points have been fully investigated by CCRC and rejected.
It's similar to what the police considered to be movement at the window subsequently written off as a 'trick of the light'. No one will ever know whether it was a trick of the light or some other thing or person. The time for beating the drum about this was at trial but I don't believe the defence did. But now JB claims this is his alibi that the movement was SC. This is the reason I believe BC turned against him. Its not an alibi because it was never proved what or who it was. Never mind a trick of the light it puts JB and his case in a poor light if that's the best you can come up with after 35 years. 8(8-))
IMO JB has a poor understanding of his case and surrounds himself with people who tell him what he wants to hear.
Has anyone picked up that HAD it been Sheila who'd been seen by Jeremy, had she at some time after that, shot herself, she'd have, relatively speaking, been only just/recently dead by the time she was found. Surely this would have been picked up when compared with the others who'd been dead rather longer?
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period. But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty. He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.Have you considered the possibility that not only does it make him look weak and guilty but that actually he IS weak and guilty and that’s why he’s come up with such a straw clutching idea?
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period. But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty. He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.
Thank you for your reply, Holly. I've obviously got a lot of work to do, but I can fully understand why Scott Lomax believes as he does.
I watched the video, hoping that I'd have a "eureka" moment, but ended up more confused than ever! I did like the police officer's London accent though----made me feel quite homesick!
When you say Jeremy doesn't understand his case, is that because you believe he didn't do it, or because he has been in prison for so long that his brain is no longert functioning normally?
I have heard it said that there are still a lot of documents that have never been released to the defence. Is this so, do you think?
mrswah in terms of accents I prefer Andrew Hunter's along with his crevat! In terms of looks I like, very much, the actor who played JB 8**8:/:
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period. But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty. He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.
LOL. Agreed, re the JB actor.
Andrew Hunter looked and sounded nothing like I had imagined!
Holly, I may have misunderstood as I've not followed this case since Jeremy and I last spoke.
Are you stating he has just recently come up with the fact that Sheila's supposed appearance at the bedroom is his alibi?
Has he not mentioned this previously?
There are enough Hooray Henrys in government. The last thing we need is a plummy-voiced toff fighting for Bamber.
See what you think of this one if you haven't seen it already.The Stan Jones dodgy accent hunting-season started up again, I see... https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=1923 (https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=1923)
It features the late DS Jones. I find his accent/voice interesting which CC also comments on in his book.
https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU (https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU)
It's a Sky production 'Killing Mum And Dad' and was the subject of a complaint from JB to the body which regulates broadcasters Of?
Ah willsoon be put in his place by Priti Patel.And a priti proper thing too!
Yes he has mentioned it previously but he has never gone as far as claiming its his alibi.
Oh yes he has!
We both believed that at the very beginning. That is all we had as evidence. Jeremy has always believed this. ALWAYS
Yes that's fair enough but it's not an alibi as it can't be proved what or who it was.
The police officers, PS Bews and PC Myall, observed what they thought was movement (PC Myall actually) but when they repositioned themselves they explained it as a trick of the light ie a moon shadow reflecting on the window. No one will ever know what or who it was. But one thing is for sure it isn't an alibi and for JB to come out and say otherwise 35 years later just makes him look weak and guilty. It's the reason Brett Collins has turned on JB. BC knows JB didn't have an alibi.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm going back to the very beginning and the discussions we have. I've not looked through the evidence like you have.
Are you saying the 'conversation with somebody in the house and the figure at the windiw' have been proven beyond a doubt, never took place.?
Of course Jeremy has always stated he could not have killed his family due to these supposed facts.
But if you have evidence that they did not happen in the way Jeremy has always stated it did, I'd be very interested in reading it. Along with the dog barking, sounding as if it was running around the house but later found locked in a cupboard (I'm not sure about that last bit tbh, this is my memory of very early days), you have proof that this could not, under any circumstances, have happened?
Holly, I'm not stating it can help, I'm only questioning you about what he saw and heard that night and was recorded.
So again, correct me if I'm wrong, these things did not occur just because a copper stated his own opinion ... With no evidence to prove it, just a view.
In addition, if a cover up had taken place, those two statements recorded by Jeremy would have to be discounted, without question... As it would always remain an alibi with supporting evidence.
What about the dog running around?
Yes that's fair enough but it's not an alibi as it can't be proved what or who it was.More revelations from the Antipodes...
The police officers, PS Bews and PC Myall, observed what they thought was movement (PC Myall actually) but when they repositioned themselves they explained it as a trick of the light ie a moon shadow reflecting on the window. No one will ever know what or who it was. But one thing is for sure it isn't an alibi and for JB to come out and say otherwise 35 years later just makes him look weak and guilty. It's the reason Brett Collins has turned on JB. BC knows JB didn't have an alibi.
The only person who claimed to have seen the movement initially was PC Myall. He alerted PS Bews and JB who were altogether. PS Bews tried to eliminate the so-called movement by moving back and forth and was able to. On this basis it was written off as a trick of the light. I don't think it was even mentioned at trial. Why didn't JB mention it to anyone pre and during trial?
Yes Crispy was running around. When the police firearms unit entered Crispy was placed in a wardrobe to preserve the soc which was a bit daft when you consider how long he had been in there.
But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.
This is what the vet stated;
The Vet’s W/S:
Robert McTaggart Hill, w/s, 14 October 1985; vet with Neill & Scott, Maldon.
Jeremy Bamber called him on 8 August and he went to Bourtree:
‘On my arrival Mr Jeremy Bamber told me that he wished me to put down the Shih Tzu dog that had belonged to Mrs Bamber, his mother. He said that the dog was very attached to his mother, and since her death, he thought that the dog should not go to another home. He also said that the dog had turned a bit nasty since the killings at WHF and it was a bit snappy. I also spoke with Mr Jeremy Bamber about finding a new home for another dog from WHF, this was a black Labrador gun dog. He seemed concerned that the dog should be found another home on a farm but if that didn’t work out that dog should also be put down. Through the vet’s practise another home was found for this dog at Corporation Farm at Maldon and we housed the dog on Friday, 9 August 1985… Mr J Bamber brought the dog to the surgery on that afternoon. On the occasions I saw Jeremy Bamber, he seemed upset when I saw him on 8.8.85 but he seemed to be more composed on 9.8.85 when I saw him in Maldon at the surgery. On the latter occasion he explained that he was on tranquillisers. I knew nothing of Jeremy Bamber or his family prior to 8.8.85.’
So psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, but Jeremy Bamber wasn't?
One of the main traits of the psychopathic brain type is manipulation; they are much better at it than the general population.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-psychopaths-think-theyre-successfully-fooling-people-in-their-minds
If it was SC at the window and she shot herself shortly afterwards then I doubt any noticeable difference in decomposition would be noticeable over such s short time period. But the point is to come out after 35 years and claim to have an alibi just makes you look weak and guilty. He surely must discuss these things with those around him and its a pity they don't talk him out of it.
G-Unit, you’re searching sites such as Quora to try and help you argue your point, but Quora is simply a message board that anyone at all can post on, so you could be reading a load of rubbish.
GENERALLY, psychopaths are manipulative, and Bamber is — just look at how many people he’s bamboozled — most of whom eventually see through him. But if you wanted to put his manipulation skills on a scale, along with his IQ, considering he’s a psychopath who are usually clever, cunning and bright, Jeremy would be right at the bottom of that scale.
So you're saying he isn't a typical psychopath. How do you know he is one then?According to the psychiatrist used by Jeremy’s own defence team the man is a psychopath. Is that not enough for you?
No-one saw Sheila at the window, though — and no-one heard a gunshot, which they wold have done.
Hadd Sheila gone berserk, as Jeremy falsely claimed, Sheila would have probably shot herself for them all to see. Why would she care if she’d gone crazy?
But the REAL TRUTH is, there was no-one at the window.
The police said it was a trick of the light, and they even “made” the same shadowy illusion by tilting their heads as they looked at he window afterwards.
This nonsense has been repeated continuously for 30 years now! The police have STATED that they saw NO person at the window. Why keep repeating the same thing, again and again and again, when everyone knows Sheila was already dead?
So you're saying he isn't a typical psychopath. How do you know he is one then?
SL also muddies the water enormously in his book by going along with the defence strategy at trial which was to suggest SC used the silencer to murder the her parents and children and then returned it to the gun cupboard before shooting herself. This scenario is based on the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer originating from an intimate mix of June and NB's blood which is so far fetched its the stuff of lala land.
I belive JB has a poor understanding of his case because he's innocent and probably didn't take it seriously pre trial naively believing he would be found not guilty because he didn't commit what he was found guilty of. Post trial he lacks the resources to manage his case properly eg no access to forensic textbooks, electronic data management systems and the Internet. Psychologically its inevitable his long incarceration and fighting a 35 year battle he still hasn't won will have taken an enormous toll. He's also had all manner of people dipping in and out of his case including cranks and bogus lawyers.
I’m simply aghast that the first thing Bamber did after being released from police questioning is go on holiday to the south of France without apparently a care in the world, knowing that he was chief suspect in his own family’s murders. How could anyone contemplate such a thing if one was innocent? One would surely be sick with stress and worry at the thought that the police were trying to frame you for murders you didn’t commit?
My thoughts exactly. nThe more I discover about him the more utterly convinced I am of his guilt and the more I struggle to understand how anyone could believe otherwise.
Not if one is a psychopath.
More revelations from the Antipodes...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer)
Interesting how Trudi Benjamin doesn’t appear to have ‘liked’ Dr Michael Naughton’s tweets here?
So psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, but Jeremy Bamber wasn't?
One of the main traits of the psychopathic brain type is manipulation; they are much better at it than the general population.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-psychopaths-think-theyre-successfully-fooling-people-in-their-minds
Lack of empathy for starters.
Oh yes he has!
We both believed that at the very beginning. That is all we had as evidence. Jeremy has always believed this. ALWAYS
He was good at hiding his true nature, right up until he killed the whole family - that kinds let the cat (or the psychopath) out of the bag.
Really? Spy thinks 'everyone' knew his true nature before the crime was committed.
They did...very soon after they got to know him
That’s why he hasn’t got any friends and never did have, even at school
I guarantee you won’t find one picture of him with a group of friends...or celebrating his 18th, 21st...
People didn’t like him, and they can’t all have been wrong. Even his fellow inmates dislike him, and they’re pondlife too
Really? Spy thinks 'everyone' knew his true nature before the crime was committed.
In fairness Spy, his fellow inmates don't like him because he's a child killer.
They did...very soon after they got to know him
That’s why he hasn’t got any friends and never did have, even at school
I guarantee you won’t find one picture of him with a group of friends...or celebrating his 18th, 21st...
People didn’t like him, and they can’t all have been wrong. Even his fellow inmates dislike him, and they’re pondlife too
In fairness Spy, his fellow inmates don't like him because he's a child killer.
Oh, really, I Spy!!!
How can you possibly be absolutely sure of all that?
In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison. He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors.
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent. He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.
In fairness Spy, his fellow inmates don't like him because he's a child killer.
There’s that of course, yes
But he’s disliked for other reasons too
Ex-inmates have said how they never liked him as he was so arrogant and treated everyone like they were beneath him.
In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison. He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors.
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent. He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.
What were his ‘friends’ convicted of ? Were they serial killers, rapists, murderers or terrorists ?Well they're not going to be in for pinching strawberries or throwing stones at swans.
In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison. He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors.
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent. He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.
Well they're not going to be in for pinching strawberries or throwing stones at swans.
What's your point?
I genuinely beg to differ!
If there was a cover up, which I believe, emphatically, these are concerns that the police would address.
It's all heresay. There is no evidence whatsoever and therefore is 'not beyond reasonable doubt!'
In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison. He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors.
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent. He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.
The reality of the truth Aunt Agatha is you’re still wearing those rose tinted glasses
I heard that when prisoners have visitors they’re watched by guards and have to remain seated (they’re not even allowed to go to the loo) and they and their visitors aren’t allowed to mix/speak with fellow inmates. You make it sound like it was an informal social gathering of friends...
Help, harm or hindrance or something else?
Jan Cunliffe @JENGbAHeart exclamation Retweeted
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Apr 16
I'm undecided so would simply ask for all evidence on the table.
@justice
Priti Patel MP, Home Secretary: Essex police, release ALL withheld documents to Jeremy Bamber’s legal defence team with immediate effect... - Sign the Petition! http://chng.it/Wnn4ZXYc via
@UKChange
London Bridge attack: Reformed prisoner who fought knifeman 'prepared to die
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50744983
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Sad to say, I had the ccrc look at my case with negative results. Only to go on and eventually have my murder conviction quashed by appeal court!?? Just saying!??
Johncrilly Retweeted
Erica Geen
@GeenErica
Today is a day I dread every year the anniversary of our sons wrongful conviction now into his 15th year. This is how I will remember Ben today fun loving son before all our lives as a family were ripped apart. #MiscarriageOfJustice
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Met Jeremy myself as just another prisoner in denial and pleading my innocence too. Here's hoping you get the chance like me to PROVE your innocence. @righttoafairtrial
@theruleoflaw
???
https://mobile.twitter.com/Johncrill1
I have emails from Andrew Green somewhere
28th Septempber 2010
"I hope you appreciate that Michael Naughton from the Bristol Innocence Project will be speaking at the meeting, and that it is an open, public meeting, with a large number of people present. Details available at http://www.unitedagainstinjustice.org.uk/MOJ%2010%20day/2010flyer.html
I don't want to take sides in any dispute that doesn't concern me directly, but you do seem to have alienated a lot of people who would otherwise be willing to give support to Simon, simply because they want to see an innocent person exonerated. I don't want trouble at our meeting any more than you do, so we'll do all we can to avoid it.
Andrew
INNOCENT
challenging miscarriages of justice since 1993
Did anyone see John Crilly on TV alongside Janet Cunliffe when she was referred to as his ‘case worker’ ?
The only person who claimed to have seen the movement initially was PC Myall. He alerted PS Bews and JB who were altogether. PS Bews tried to eliminate the so-called movement by moving back and forth and was able to. On this basis it was written off as a trick of the light. I don't think it was even mentioned at trial. Why didn't JB mention it to anyone pre and during trial?
Yes Crispy was running around. When the police firearms unit entered Crispy was placed in a wardrobe to preserve the soc which was a bit daft when you consider how long he had been in there.
But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Sad to say, I had the ccrc look at my case with negative results. Only to go on and eventually have my murder conviction quashed by appeal court!?? Just saying!??
Johncrilly
@Johncrill1
Met Jeremy myself as just another prisoner in denial and pleading my innocence too. Here's hoping you get the chance like me to PROVE your innocence. @righttoafairtrial
@theruleoflaw
???
https://mobile.twitter.com/Johncrill1
Are you by any chance feeding into Aunt Agathas ‘idealisations’ behind the scenes Holly ?
and do you remember stating this?
“I know I would feel devastated if proved wrong re JB or he admitted to being responsible.”
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457433#msg457433
Are you by any chance feeding into ‘idealisations’ behind the scenes Holly ?
and do you remember stating this?
“I know I would feel devastated if proved wrong re JB or he admitted to being responsible.”
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457433#msg457433
Wow, to say you’d feel DEVASTATED if Jeremy admitted he was responsible sounds like you’re emotionally involved , Holly!
It also sounds like you’ve got “other” reasons to be defending him for so many years. I don’t know how often you’ve visited him — which are brief one-hour visits under scrutiny from guards, so hardly normal — but even if he writes to you daily; calls you on the phone; you don’t TRULY know him. So if he did eventually admit to the murders he’s been found guilty of, why would you feel devastated when he’s just a contact of yours?
Quickly going on to this you wrote:
“But it does show the police didn't accept what they were told by JB at face value otherwise they would have left Crispy to his own devices and not been concerned with protecting soc.”
When the police raided WHF they didn’t know what to expect. When they found Crispy cowering under the bed, their immediate action was to contain him for obvious reasons. Do you seriously think they’d not have regardless of what they thought of JB? It’s STANDARD procedure, and he’d have been the last thing on the police officers minds when they kept Crispy out the way of dead bodies!
I've edited and removed a number of posts which contained personal comments.
I would advise those who consider JB is or might be a MoJ not to reveal any personal info as unfortunately it seems to be used against you whether it be AA's contact with JB or G-Unit's experience of a naughty dog!
Bamber is on lockdown in his prison cell (Well, I never!) and a lot more baloney is coming to light... LOL!!!"...the case is always evolving". Not from where I'm standing it's not. In his head maybe.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177)
I've edited and removed a number of posts which contained personal comments.
I would advise those who consider JB is or might be a MoJ not to reveal any personal info as unfortunately it seems to be used against you whether it be AA's contact with JB or G-Unit's experience of a naughty dog!
Bamber is on lockdown in his prison cell (Well, I never!) and a lot more baloney is coming to light... LOL!!!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-chilling-coronavirus-21898177)
The press can’t stand him can they...
I bet they roll their eyes when they see those same tired words again and again and again “New evidence has come to light” ^*&&
Isn’t that biased trying to make rules whereby people can’t tell the truth; give facts; accounts; ideas; details; first-hand knowledge they have of JB; opinions...especially on a JUSTICE board? 8**8:/:
Personal remarks aimed at other posters are against forum rules so are properly removed.
Holly wasn’t discussing just personal remarks — she advised people not to reveal information about Jeremy Bamber — which doesn’t help him or anyone else. Withholding knowledge doesn’t make for a good forum...
No it doesn’tI agree, it's needless censorship. Maybe even driven by bias.
As asked before - what’s she playing at?
I agree, it's needless censorship. Maybe even driven by bias.
I agree, it's needless censorship. Maybe even driven by bias.
Bias, personality who knows?
Holly wasn’t discussing just personal remarks — she advised people not to reveal information about Jeremy Bamber — which doesn’t help him or anyone else. Withholding knowledge doesn’t make for a good forum...
Aunt Agatha is a victim of Bamber’s - this is my opinion
Why remove a post like this?
What post was removed, Nicholas?
I missed it.
I have thought when reading Agatha’s posts that she sounds somewhat timid and doesn’t like to think bad of anyone, whoever they are...
Isn’t that biased trying to make rules whereby people can’t tell the truth; give facts; accounts; ideas; details; first-hand knowledge they have of JB; opinions...especially on a JUSTICE board? 8**8:/:
Yvonne Hartley
“Even though I was only 18 at the time, I remember quite clearly the tragedies that occurred at White House Farm from the media coverage the case attracted, although it wasn’t until I watched the television programme “Crimes that shook Britain” about the case that I felt an overwhelming need to write to Jeremy to express my concerns about his wrongful conviction and to offer my support.
It’s quite embarrassing to recall the content of my first letter to Jeremy where I thought I had spotted something previously missed by the Defence, and wrote pages of analysis of how I saw the case from the limited amount of material available on the internet.
Within a few days of posting the letter I received a lengthy reply back from Jeremy who explained some of the facts behind the issues I had raised and he thanked me for the time it had taken me to reach the conclusions I had expressed to him.
This letter is now a source of amusement both to Jeremy and myself and I keep telling him to throw it away to which he laughs, but he never belittles the content of it. Embarrassing as it may be to me now, this letter opened the door to a friendship which I cherish and also to the best job in the world.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley
*%87
Yvonne HartleyMore from Yvonne Hartley
“Even though I was only 18 at the time, I remember quite clearly the tragedies that occurred at White House Farm from the media coverage the case attracted, although it wasn’t until I watched the television programme “Crimes that shook Britain” about the case that I felt an overwhelming need to write to Jeremy to express my concerns about his wrongful conviction and to offer my support.
It’s quite embarrassing to recall the content of my first letter to Jeremy where I thought I had spotted something previously missed by the Defence, and wrote pages of analysis of how I saw the case from the limited amount of material available on the internet.
Within a few days of posting the letter I received a lengthy reply back from Jeremy who explained some of the facts behind the issues I had raised and he thanked me for the time it had taken me to reach the conclusions I had expressed to him.
This letter is now a source of amusement both to Jeremy and myself and I keep telling him to throw it away to which he laughs, but he never belittles the content of it. Embarrassing as it may be to me now, this letter opened the door to a friendship which I cherish and also to the best job in the world.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley
*%87
Yvonne Hartley
“Even though I was only 18 at the time, I remember quite clearly the tragedies that occurred at White House Farm from the media coverage the case attracted, although it wasn’t until I watched the television programme “Crimes that shook Britain” about the case that I felt an overwhelming need to write to Jeremy to express my concerns about his wrongful conviction and to offer my support.
It’s quite embarrassing to recall the content of my first letter to Jeremy where I thought I had spotted something previously missed by the Defence, and wrote pages of analysis of how I saw the case from the limited amount of material available on the internet.
Within a few days of posting the letter I received a lengthy reply back from Jeremy who explained some of the facts behind the issues I had raised and he thanked me for the time it had taken me to reach the conclusions I had expressed to him.
This letter is now a source of amusement both to Jeremy and myself and I keep telling him to throw it away to which he laughs, but he never belittles the content of it. Embarrassing as it may be to me now, this letter opened the door to a friendship which I cherish and also to the best job in the world.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley
*%87
Vomit break called for, I think.
This Is What Everyone Should Know About Covert Abusers by Dr Craig Malkin (2018)
“In decades of studies on bullying and aggression, one aspect of pathological narcissism — EE, or exploitation and entitlement — predicts just about every nasty behavior documented, including physical abuse, chronic lies, and even workplace sabotage. But when it comes to predicting aggression, EE also tends to disappear, mathematically, once psychopathy is thrown into the mix. It’s the correlation between psychopathy and narcissism that makes narcissists dangerous.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/romance-redux/201802/is-what-everyone-should-know-about-covert-abusers
Yvonne Hartley
“Jeremy Bamber is a remarkable, dedicated, resilient, man with a strength of mind which is humbling”
Yvonne HartleyThere’s nowt so queer as folk.
“Jeremy Bamber is a remarkable, dedicated, resilient, man with a strength of mind which is humbling”
Yvonne Hartley
“t annoys me greatly that these people state that Jeremy sits in his cell looking over case documents and extracts “typos” as evidence. These people really do not have a clue.
That's EXACTLY what he does!
In another case here https://www.thejusticegap.com/we-were-never-going-to-be-collateral-damage/
Mark Newby stated,
”Frankly, it was blindingly obvious that the allegations made against him were false back in 2012,’
‘That the Crown stuck doggedly to a case – there was not one but two attempts at a retrial – is not only a scandalous waste of money but, even more alarming, reveals a credulous approach to self-evidently flawed evidence. It always was a nothing case. What was the prosecution thinking?’
(In 2015 Jon Robins wrote his interpretation on Geoffrey Long’s case for the Daily Mail - don’t know if he was responsible for the header or not https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3298591/A-father-s-life-destroyed-child-sex-abuse-claims-daughter.html)
Note this at bottom of article
“An earlier version of this article said that Tina Long confessed in court that she had ‘lied about the injustice’. We are happy to clarify that Ms Long’s testimony under cross-examination in a re-trial proved to be unreliable and cast doubt on her allegations. The article also said that Tina and her mother Mrs Susan Hunter had taped proceedings in court. In fact, while a tape-recording was discovered, the evidence suggested neither woman was responsible. A detail that Geoff Long was present at his daughter Tina’s birth, has now been disputed. We are also happy to clarify that Mrs Hunter strongly denies attempting to enrol her grandchildren in Mrs Louise Long’s nursery.
And Mark Newby appears to think Bamber’s case is worth backing?
All I can say is, it clearly sounds as if he's providing her with something she feels has been missing from her life. She speaks like a worshiping, modern day acolyte.
April, almost ALL of the women who fawn over him are lacking in several waysIt's always a source of puzzlement when you perceive someone is obviously deluded and hold bizarre opinions, grasping the totally wrong end of the stick.
The ones I’ve seen are of a certain age — usually between late 50s to late 60s, even 70s
They’re usually plain, ordinary...gullible, naive, desperate to please. But they get very aggressive and uncouth if you say he’s what he is — a mass murderer. They’re often “slow” and not at all bright. Absolutely nothing will convince them of his guilt, even if he admitted it they’d say he’d been forced to lie. The ones I’ve seen live very basic lifestyles, either on benefits or in low paid work.
Their social lives are non-existent and men are scarce on the ground....it’s very sad.
The majority are lonely and need to be needed, so they love nothing better than doing his donkey work. Just a few kisses or a smilie at the end of his letters thrills them to bits, and they probably kiss the paper because he’s touched it...
It’s so, so, so sad. But makes me feel sick.
To be obsessed with a revolting child killer is evil beyond belief
Who is Mark Newby?
April, almost ALL of the women who fawn over him are lacking in several ways
The ones I’ve seen are of a certain age — usually between late 50s to late 60s, even 70s
They’re usually plain, ordinary...gullible, naive, desperate to please. But they get very aggressive and uncouth if you say he’s what he is — a mass murderer. They’re often “slow” and not at all bright. Absolutely nothing will convince them of his guilt, even if he admitted it they’d say he’d been forced to lie. The ones I’ve seen live very basic lifestyles, either on benefits or in low paid work.
Their social lives are non-existent and men are scarce on the ground....it’s very sad.
The majority are lonely and need to be needed, so they love nothing better than doing his donkey work. Just a few kisses or a smilie at the end of his letters thrills them to bits, and they probably kiss the paper because he’s touched it...
It’s so, so, so sad. But makes me feel sick.
To be obsessed with a revolting child killer is evil beyond belief
The truth will come out eventually
Emilia di GirolamoEmilia di Girolamo
None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth.
Who”s Mark Cropper?
Mark Cropper
@Markocropper
Find out what @EmiliaDG has to say about Jeremy Bamber http://jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo…
5:55 PM · Aug 1, 2011·Twitter Web Client
He was part of the original campaign team then did a disappearing act a few years’ ago.
How do you know they were a ‘he’ out of interest ?
Mark Cropper
@Markocropper
No, nonesene, no waffle, no flim flam, just hard facts supported by evidence http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
9:30 AM · Feb 10, 2011·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/Markocropper/status/35631596950401024
Can you provide evidence of what you are saying? You have no idea of the men and women who are friendly with Jeremy for various reasons. It is wrong of you to make assumptions and post as fact. One female who is extremely close to Jeremy is the film maker Emilia di Girolamo. She visits him regularly. She is neither old, frumpy or lacking a man in her life and is an intelligent professional lady. There are many others like her and also intelligent men who are his friends. None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth. I wonder whether the extreme hatred you spout out is because you have something lacking in YOUR life! The truth will come out eventually when all undisclosed documents are released.
What are you talking about? I know he is a man as I spoke to him. He and his friend Sarah Hanover used to run Jeremy’s campaign while running their own business. If you want to know the ins and outs I am sure others on this forum can tell you more about them. I also used to contact them regularly when I was typing documents for Jeremy.
He was part of the original campaign team then did a disappearing act a few years’ ago.
Hi Daisy, good to see you posting! With respect to Emilia di Girolamo, she is entitled to her opinion which seems to stem from her thoughts on Sheila fitting the profile of someone who might kill her children - someone she has never met and whose only source of information would be Jeremy. You know all too well how manipulative he turned out to be and I am sure he is very charming to all the 'right' people. I think Jeremy fits the bill of a family annihilator perfectly.
He was part of the original campaign team then did a disappearing act a few years’ ago.
Found this
Monday, 24 January 2011
"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.
I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.
I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.
My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.
Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html
Hi Caroline my post was a response to Ispy who said that all women who support Jeremy are desperate sad individuals. I was just demonstrating that this isn’t true. By the way Ispy obviously includes you as one of those people. How does that make you feel as you used to support Jeremy? I am still waiting for evidence to back up those sweeping statements. If we don’t stop wild assumptions being presented as facts then we lose track of the actual facts.
Hi Daisy, good to see you posting! With respect to Emilia di Girolamo, she is entitled to her opinion which seems to stem from her thoughts on Sheila fitting the profile of someone who might kill her children - someone she has never met and whose only source of information would be Jeremy. You know all too well how manipulative he turned out to be and I am sure he is very charming to all the 'right' people. I think Jeremy fits the bill of a family annihilator perfectly.
Is it just me, or is the that that a convicted serial killer has his own blog, website and instagram account simply repulsive? Imagine if Rosemary West had one protesting her innocence and doing bake-offs. Yuck!
It's always a source of puzzlement when you perceive someone is obviously deluded and hold bizarre opinions, grasping the totally wrong end of the stick.
Well at least you've reluctantly come to your senses and admitted your delusion was unfounded.
Perhaps you should tell that to yourself, General
After all, deluded people don’t realise they are...if you finally face up to it you can get help 😊
Some people are apparently fascinated by his behaviour and how he keeps appealing his 5 life sentences & full life term?
In Jan 2012 here https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killers-lose-european-court-whole-life-appeal-6290743.html it was reported Bamber said,
”Both the trial judge and the Lord Chief Justice set my minimum tariff as 25 years.
"Quite why the Home Secretary felt that I should die in jail when the judges felt otherwise is a mystery.
It’s not really though is it
His psychopathy is the ‘mystery’ to which he refers and it’s why he’s never disclosed or publicised his per trial assessment report
Whilst I'm certain that Jeremy clung to 25 years then freedom, the trial judge added the rider that it remained to be seen whether it it would ever be considered safe to release him, meaning 25 years was a minimum. I'm guessing that the Home Secretary considered it wasn't safe.
Can you provide evidence of what you are saying? You have no idea of the men and women who are friendly with Jeremy for various reasons. It is wrong of you to make assumptions and post as fact. One female who is extremely close to Jeremy is the film maker Emilia di Girolamo. She visits him regularly. She is neither old, frumpy or lacking a man in her life and is an intelligent professional lady. There are many others like her and also intelligent men who are his friends. None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth. I wonder whether the extreme hatred you spout out is because you have something lacking in YOUR life! The truth will come out eventually when all undisclosed documents are released.
Hi Caroline my post was a response to Ispy who said that all women who support Jeremy are desperate sad individuals. I was just demonstrating that this isn’t true. By the way Ispy obviously includes you as one of those people. How does that make you feel as you used to support Jeremy? I am still waiting for evidence to back up those sweeping statements. If we don’t stop wild assumptions being presented as facts then we lose track of the actual facts.
In another case here https://www.thejusticegap.com/we-were-never-going-to-be-collateral-damage/
Mark Newby stated,
”Frankly, it was blindingly obvious that the allegations made against him were false back in 2012,’
‘That the Crown stuck doggedly to a case – there was not one but two attempts at a retrial – is not only a scandalous waste of money but, even more alarming, reveals a credulous approach to self-evidently flawed evidence. It always was a nothing case. What was the prosecution thinking?’
(In 2015 Jon Robins wrote his interpretation on Geoffrey Long’s case for the Daily Mail - don’t know if he was responsible for the header or not https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3298591/A-father-s-life-destroyed-child-sex-abuse-claims-daughter.html)
On the Bamber case,
Mark Newby said:
“The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”
“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.
“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.
“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”
“The afternoon gave a more critical perspective with solicitor Mark Newby urging the CCRC to undertake more proactive reviews, to challenge the Police and to search for evidence rather than to accept assurances that it had been lost or had never existed. This was important in historic sex abuse cases and Newby cited cases where it was established that defendants were innocent of allegations of child abuse, a subject that Conference Chair, David Rose described as being one of society’s few remaining taboos.
https://www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/righting-wrongs
Newby’s concerns on reviews were echoed by Professor Carolyn Hoyle of Oxford University. Professor Hoyle is leading an externally funded research project covering the Commission’s investigative and decision-making processes. The CCRC has facilitated access to its archives and open interviews with personnel. Hoyle’s initial findings suggest some differences between the CCRC’s investigators. Some appear to be more prepared to go “beyond the bundle” than others, to ask questions, or to conduct crime scene visits, or to speak with those connected with the case be they experts, representatives or police officers.
What are you talking about? I know he is a man as I spoke to him. He and his friend Sarah Hanover used to run Jeremy’s campaign while running their own business. If you want to know the ins and outs I am sure others on this forum can tell you more about them. I also used to contact them regularly when I was typing documents for Jeremy.
‘The Murders at White House Farm’ is available on audiobook now https://www.storytel.com/in/en/books/1169910-The-Murders-at-White-House-Farm
No-one saw Sheila at the window, though — and no-one heard a gunshot, which they wold have done.
Hadd Sheila gone berserk, as Jeremy falsely claimed, Sheila would have probably shot herself for them all to see. Why would she care if she’d gone crazy?
But the REAL TRUTH is, there was no-one at the window.
The police said it was a trick of the light, and they even “made” the same shadowy illusion by tilting their heads as they looked at he window afterwards.
This nonsense has been repeated continuously for 30 years now! The police have STATED that they saw NO person at the window. Why keep repeating the same thing, again and again and again, when everyone knows Sheila was already dead?
I genuinely beg to differ!
If there was a cover up, which I believe, emphatically, these are concerns that the police would address.
It's all heresay. There is no evidence whatsoever and therefore is 'not beyond reasonable doubt!'
Who did Bamber introduce Aunt Agatha to, Robert Maudsley?
“Robert Maudsley, known as ‘Hannibal the Cannibal’ or the ‘Brain Eater’ https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1234599/white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bamber-prison-itv-drama-true-crime-spt
What prison did she visit him in?
Was Bamber ‘friendly’ with David Harker, Ian Huntley, Sidney Cooke?
Harker killed and dismembered mother-of-four Julie Paterson, and admitted eating parts of her flesh with pasta. In 1999 he was sentenced to a minimum of 14 years in prison after admitting manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Alan Taylor, the partner of Harker’s victim later committed murder saying he wanted to be jailed at Wakefield so he could attack Harker.
Nicknamed Hissing Sid, Cooke is a notorious paedophile who is serving two life sentences for a campaign of sexual abuse against two young boys. He’d previously been jailed for the manslaughter of 14-year-old Jason Swift. It’s been reported that in Wakefield prison he’s befriended a fellow inmate known as Britain’s Joseph Fritzl.
https://www.lifedeathprizes.com/real-life-crime/monster-mansion-hm-prison-wakefield-uks-notorious-jail-64494
SL also muddies the water enormously in his book by going along with the defence strategy at trial which was to suggest SC used the silencer to murder the her parents and children and then returned it to the gun cupboard before shooting herself. This scenario is based on the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer originating from an intimate mix of June and NB's blood which is so far fetched its the stuff of lala land.
I belive JB has a poor understanding of his case because he's innocent and probably didn't take it seriously pre trial naively believing he would be found not guilty because he didn't commit what he was found guilty of. Post trial he lacks the resources to manage his case properly eg no access to forensic textbooks, electronic data management systems and the Internet. Psychologically its inevitable his long incarceration and fighting a 35 year battle he still hasn't won will have taken an enormous toll. He's also had all manner of people dipping in and out of his case including cranks and bogus lawyers.
Aunt Agatha why didn’t Bamber ever tell Brett Collins what he’s told you and others?
”But Brett today demolishes the idea that Bamber can prove he has an alibi which means he could not have been responsible for the massacre.
He insisted:
“He didn’t ever bring up someone being inside or being seen at the window when the police were there with him to me. It’s just bulls**t.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285
He didn't bring it up in any of his witness statements either, nor did he mention it when he was arrested - "You can't be serious, all three of us saw someone moving in the house, that's why we ran away"
He only mentioned it at the trial when he became desperate. It was either Rivlin or Lawson that suggested the phrase "a trick of the light" to PC Bews in cross exam. JB is still furious about it.
The CT and supporters still claim that they all saw "a figure" but all PC Myall saw was possible "movement" out the corner of his eye which they quickly dismissed.
The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?
My point exactly Holly, thank you.
I should clarify,for me, JB supporters fall into two categories, The CT and those that believe every word and desperately misrepresented log they put out and those that have put some serious thought into it. The latter I don't mind, the former will baffle me for the rest of my days.
I think some of it might be down to personality traits along the lines of Myers Briggs ie how people perceive the world and make decisions.
I was invited to join the CT by JB and the CT but chose not to.
What is the CT?
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.
I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!
JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.
Thank you.
Yes if I was part of the CT I would want everything done very differently. I immediately came to loggerheads with a senior member over the graveside reading and decided I could not and would not become part of it.
He didn't bring it up in any of his witness statements either, nor did he mention it when he was arrested - "You can't be serious, all three of us saw someone moving in the house, that's why we ran away"
He only mentioned it at the trial when he became desperate. It was either Rivlin or Lawson that suggested the phrase "a trick of the light" to PC Bews in cross exam. JB is still furious about it.
The CT and supporters still claim that they all saw "a figure" but all PC Myall saw was possible "movement" out the corner of his eye which they quickly dismissed.
The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?
I think some of it might be down to personality traits along the lines of Myers Briggs ie how people perceive the world and make decisions.
I was invited to join the CT by JB and the CT but chose not to.
The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?
“On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves.[/i]
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
”Occasionally choking on her words, she told the court about the night at Caterham Road, when she had begged him to remain with her, and the angry confrontation at Sheila’s flat when she discovered that Jeremy had begun dating a former girlfriend,”,”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
I think reading a letter to his supporters and pretending he was talking to his parents was the worst idea anyone could ever have had. Like I said, a laughing stock.
Was it Bambers idea or one of the CT?
“Most of the research supporting the MBTI's validity has been produced by the Centre for Applications of Psychological Type, an organization run by the Myers-Briggs Foundation, and published in the Centre's own journal, the Journal of Psychological Type, raising questions of independence, bias, and conflict of interest.[7]”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers–Briggs_Type_Indicator
What did Virginia Greaves witness statement say regarding her alleged phone call to Bamber at SC’s flat and did the evidence support the phone call was made by her?
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.
I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!
JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.
The innocence fraud starts with Bamber
This is what the CT state i.e Virginia Greaves phoned Bamber
But it’s alluded to here it was Anji Greaves as opposed to Virginia her sister?
Who was JM thinking of at this point? Did she ever become aware of - or was she ever told of Anji before Bamber’s trial?
What did Virginia Greaves witness statement say regarding her alleged phone call to Bamber at SC’s flat and did the evidence support the phone call was made by her?
Jeremy needs people he can manipulate - he has to be in control. The rubbish in the public domain is mostly down to him and as a supporter, I've heard most of it before from the horses mouth - and more besides. I don't think he's done with the BS yet.
Anji and Virginia Greaves are sisters. I think JB dated VG briefly at some stage. Post JM he got together with AG but I think the person phoning when JM smashed a mirror was VG who was calling to rent a room in SC's flat because she worked in London.
Anji and Virginia Greaves are sisters.
I think JB dated VG briefly at some stage.
Post JM he got together with AG
I think the person phoning when JM smashed a mirror was VG who was calling to rent a room in SC's flat because she worked in London.
Why didn’t Bamber (or his legal team) consider calling Virginia or Anji Greaves to give evidence in support of his character at his trial?
Jeremy needs people he can manipulate - he has to be in control. The rubbish in the public domain is mostly down to him and as a supporter, I've heard most of it before from the horses mouth - and more besides. I don't think he's done with the BS yet.
He was also seeing her.
Yep they are
Where’s her witness statement ?
And where’s her sisters witness statement ?
According to the Sun article AG says otherwise
Indeed, what I meant regarding the CT need for control was really a transparent need to be JBs favourite which would give them motive to oust any competition for that position.
It seems many who could have supported the defence case were not called eg the Greaves sister and their mother who knew of JB
Yep they are
Where’s her witness statement ? Mike hasn't posted it - will check CAL for you, I have the Kindle version so easier to search and post
And where’s her sisters witness statement ? As above
According to the Sun article AG says otherwise ?
Thought JM smashed the mirror cos she’d realised Bamber was a cheat? - She did
Do you think he’s manipulating Mark Newby?
eg the Greaves sister and their mother who knew of JB
He was also seeing her.
Do your mean Bamber was also seeing Virginia or Anji or both - as well as JM?
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.
I’m not reading it like that - Hence why I’d like to find out the date he met the Greave sisters
According to Anji’s Sun interview she appears to have suggested JM’s alleged anger was misplaced ?
Perhaps they did threesomes?
No wonder he looked knackered after all that action...
Perhaps they did threesomes?
OK, and yes, I agree, which is where the ridicule comes from, like the 'knitting circle' and the Bamberettes. The CT are like the Bamber version of the WI - at least that's how I perceive them.
Did they? I don’t know April I’m trying to establish when Bamber first met the Greaves sisters (family) and who exactly he received a call from at SC flat that triggered JM to throw a wooden box at a mirror?
Did they? I don’t know April I’m trying to establish when Bamber first met the Greaves sisters (family) and who exactly he received a call from at SC flat that triggered JM to throw a wooden box at a mirror?It was Virginia, although she wasn't one by that time.
Was Bamber cheating on all 3 of them at the same time?
Well, I guess she would - not wanting her (or her sister_. to be considered as the 'other woman' - especially given that she would have had a downer on Julie.
No wonder he looked knackered after all that action...
It was Virginia, although she wasn't one by that time.
Do you think he’s manipulating Mark Newby?
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.
The way I read it, he was seeing Julie, then Virginia, then Anji. He was two timing Julie but I think Virginia was pretty much finished with him when. Anji picked him up.
I think he'll certainly try but MN is perhaps wise to it. I have not seen MN use the word "innocent" or "proof" in regard to Bamber at all, preferring ambiguous terms "the new evidence strongly suggests the chain of events were not... etc.. I think McKay tried to avoid egg on his face in a similar way.
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?Sister rivalry? Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false)
The Secret barrister wrote recently that the idea of a lawyer not wanting to take on a high profile case is laughable, especially a lawyer promoting himself as a champion for MOJs. Think of the publicity!
Sister rivalry? Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.
Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.
But Bamber was and is renowned for telling one person one thing and another person something else entirelyNot read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
Charles Marsden’s is just one version
What did the sisters say?
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
[/color]
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
9th April 2020 Bamber blogs:
“Thanks for all of your kind emails and letters of support since the outbreak of COVID-19.
We are, like all of you, following strict social distancing measures in the prison. Thanks to all of our key workers at the NHS and emergency services, especially prison officers who show compassion and professionalism at a time that is difficult for all of us.
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/]
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
Anji and Virginia Greaves are sisters. I think JB dated VG briefly at some stage. Post JM he got together with AG but I think the person phoning when JM smashed a mirror was VG who was calling to rent a room in SC's flat because she worked in London.
The only women I've read about him bedding are Suzette Ford, JM, Anji Greaves (think he might have kept it in the family with her sister Virginia too?) and someone he met at The Chequers on a night out with Charles Marsden but its unclear whether he actually did the biz or not. Oh and I think JM's friend, Liz Rimmington, claimed he did the biz with her.
The important thing for me is that no women has ever come forward and said he was violent or abusive.
How much do you think the SB is worth now?
Yes have seen their BS on the cab rank rule too - ‘In practice, the rule has been watered down since its inception’ *&^^& ergo it’s a fallacy
“The fundamental principle that a barrister, like a cabbie, has to take the first “fare” that arrives. The obvious rationale being to ensure that no-one simply cherrypicks the plum cases (to mangle a fruit metaphor), and to maintain the cherished independence of the bar.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/glossary/
Why does it appear Bamber and Mike T have chosen to withhold and not put Virginia Greaves witness statement into the public domain?
It’s similar to the vets statement scenario
“Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
If true why didn’t Virginia warn her sister Anji; or did she?
Was Virginia concerned for JM ?
Did JM cut herself?
Was Bamber lying or embellishing ?
What was the date of Virginia’s WS? Had Bamber spoken to her before she’d made it and influenced her thoughts?
I would imagine the SB is worth a few quid but wouldn't like to guess.
Yes, there is probably a big difference between the principle of the cab rank rule and how it works in practice but generally, lawyers aren't remembered for the cases they lost anyway. Mark Newby will be but a footnote in the lastest failed attempt at appeal but will be a hero in the MOJ movement for even taking it on, drumming up plenty of business in the process.
There are a lot of statements missing, probably some bias going on but to be fair, we wouldn't have what we have is Mike didn't post them - like him or loathe him.
It’s not about ‘like him or loathe him’ Caroline it’s about the way he and Bamber at one time directed the narrative of how his case was presented in the public domain
Why the use of ‘certain documents’ ?
It's sad that
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.0
I have no reason to stick up for Mike and never would but it's up to people to see beyond the bias and not believe everything he says. Clearly the use of 'certain documents' is to portray a particular view - if people are willing to follow that view like sheep, frankly - that's their problem. It's unfortunate that a big part of the picture is missing which leads people to speculate but at least there are enough of us that who don't follow Mike's crumb trail and realise it's leading away from the truth.
There are a lot of statements missing, probably some bias going on but to be fair, we wouldn't have what we have is Mike didn't post them - like him or loathe him.
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
The Greave sisters statements can’t be missing if CAL has quoted from them
And I’m certain this news article was posted on one of the forums at one time
I have no reason to stick up for Mike and never would but it's up to people to see beyond the bias and not believe everything he says. Clearly the use of 'certain documents' is to portray a particular view - if people are willing to follow that view like sheep, frankly - that's their problem. It's unfortunate that a big part of the picture is missing which leads people to speculate but at least there are enough of us that who don't follow Mike's crumb trail and realise it's leading away from the truth.
The other woman he was going to date dodged a bullet, eh?! Bet she can’t believe her luck.
They won't be missing, CAL obviously obtained her own copies. If Mike has them then he must have chosen not to post them.
Why though. Why didn’t Mike post them?
Did he think their contents was irrelevant to the back story?
Did he think they painted Bamber in a poor light?
Why didn’t Bamber or his legal team choose to use the Greave sisters as witnesses at his trial?
Maybe Mike will have a hunt through his files and share their content?
I was referring to Bamber’s ‘crumb trials’ not Mikes
On the whole the CT’s narrative and understanding of the case has come from Bamber
Whilst he’s kept the CT and his supporters busy focusing on JM, the other women stories haven’t been seen for what they were/are and for how they change JM’s position at that time
For example, JM sold her story following the guilty verdict but so it appears did Anji Greaves
They were both sat in hotel rooms with journalists it seems but nothing appears to have been mentioned about this fact
How much was Anji Greaves paid?
Anji or Virginia Greave could have been in JM’s position having to give evidence in court and I suspect both of them know much more than they’ve ever let on.
The difference is that Julie was a witness and although I don't agree that her being paid for the article makes any difference to the case, I can see why people might. However, her agreeing to do the article came long after she had already made her statement and so her testimony wasn't influenced by the payment she got for it.
Wasn't Julie initially reluctant about speaking to the Press at all and only did so eventually on her lawyers advice to get them off her back?
The difference is that Julie was a witness and although I don't agree that her being paid for the article makes any difference to the case, I can see why people might. However, her agreeing to do the article came long after she had already made her statement and so her testimony wasn't influenced by the payment she got for it.
It's the time-frame I'm questioning. He's still -just about- with Julie, but by the time of his arrest, following a holiday with Brett, he's managed to bag himself a pair of sisters, one of whom seemed to think they had an ongoing relationship.
“Jeremy states that after he was led down to his cell for the night , DCI Taff Jones paid him a visit:
He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
This is what he appears to have written to CAL
“Jeremy states that after he was led down to his cell for the night , DCI Taff Jones paid him a visit:
He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
“Sitting beside him was Angela Greaves, Virginia’s older sister. A beautician six years Jeremys senior, ‘Anji’ had quickly grown close to Jeremy following his visits with Virginia: ‘The poor chap was on Valium and he was drinking. He had nobody to turn to. His relatives were fighting over everything. It was awful, bloody awful’ Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
“Regardless of what lay behind Julies motivations to go to the police, Anji was there to meet Jeremy upon his release.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
”But Brett today demolishes the idea that Bamber can prove he has an alibi which means he could not have been responsible for the massacre.
He insisted:
“He didn’t ever bring up someone being inside or being seen at the window when the police were there with him to me. It’s just bulls**t”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285
Lots of good questions Nicholas,
What happened for BC to resurface and turn on his old mate apart from another 2 minutes of fame and a modest cheque from a journalist?
The subject we all want him to shed light on is the attempt to sell Sheila's dignity to the NOTW and his part in it.
Was BC more involved or suspicious than he is prepared to let on?
I have the same opinion of the Bamberettes as you call them although I refer to them more unkindly as mind controlled cult members, but it's important to delineate the CT from those that mindlessly repeat their nonsense.
The CT itself is something of an enigma, are they serious in their beliefs or do they deliberately spread long debunked misinformation because they know it will attract unquestioning new recruits?
Can you imagine them working for years, baking cakes and spouting lies about CAL and then allowing someone intelligent such as Holly to come along and crack the case? ( assuming the case can be cracked )
Indeed, what I meant regarding the CT need for control was really a transparent need to be JBs favourite which would give them motive to oust any competition for that position.
Clearly the use of 'certain documents' is to portray a particular view - if people are willing to follow that view like sheep, frankly - that's their problem. It's unfortunate that a big part of the picture is missing which leads people to speculate but at least there are enough of us that who don't follow Mike's crumb trail and realise it's leading away from the truth.
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
“But as Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone reported in the Guardian, the silencer was central to Bamber’s trial and vital in persuading the jury of his guilt.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bambers-lawyers-challenge-cps-over-non-disclosure/
JM’s evidence was also ‘central’ to Bamber’s trial and ‘vital in persuading the jury of his guilt’
If Anji believed JM was ‘so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer’ as the Sun reported, it might be worthwhile tracking down both sisters to establish the facts of the matter
And Julie maintains her stand today.
IF Bamber were to get past the CCRC with the sound moderator evidence, for example - would JM’s evidence at trial matter to the Court of Appeal?
What if the CCRC only referred on the SM evidence?
Spot on, Common Sense.
We all know Jeremy Bamber is guilty, as does he. As did the jury. And as did the judge and COA judges.
Bamber’s few supporters try to distort & twist ludicrous points that have no significance — and were dealt with decades ago.
They can spout until they’re blue in the face, but the courts made their mind up 34 years ago and knew far more than any of us do; hence why his sentence was INCREASED to Life without Parole.
All these petty little points they try to make have been batted out of court years ago...the ludicrous suggestions that the police shot Sheila, Crispy shot her, the police set him up, the police moved her body...it’s all BS. They’ll be doing this until JB pops his clogs in his cell...they seem to live and breathe him. I find it revolting how anyone can be drawn to a mass murderer who also shot dead two little boys...
I share your disdain for the CT and those that repeat their desperate stupid dishonest nonsense but I take the view that the there is some room for legitimate doubt about aspects of the case and respect others differing opinions where they are based on fact.
Unlike the Bamberettes, I have no emotional investment here, I couldn't care less if it turns out he is innocent after all but I have been waiting 34 years for something concrete to convince me and so far.. nothing
I’m afraid I can’t agree there.
I’ve seen nothing at all that gives any room for doubt whatsoever. Nothing.
He, and only he was capable of killing those five members of his family. And believe me, if I did indeed think he could in any way be innocent I’d fight his corner, but he’s as guilty as sin — and there’s absolutely nothing but ludicrous conspiracies to try and make some people doubt his conviction.
He’s lied profusely, throughout, changed his stories...and innocent men don’t change their stories do they...
So why do you think Mark Newby has decided to represent him and advance yet more nonsense? as I see it
So what do the defence know about Bamber’s activities that they’ve not shared ?
Would they have a timeline of his apparent over lapping ‘relationships’ for example and would they know JM was abused by Bamber?
The abuse of JM was never explored during Bamber’s trial - the defence attempted to portray her as a ‘scorned women’ instead
They jury nor prosecution it seems were never in possession of the full facts of this aspect of the case
Mark Newby recently stated:
”It is disappointing that the CPS has chosen not to engage with that process and accordingly there is no alternative but to pursue that judicial review, particularly in circumstances where it appears that this may demonstrate that a misleading position was placed before the jury in relation to the forensic evidence.’”
https://www.thejusticegap.com/bambers-lawyers-challenge-cps-over-non-disclosure/
I think the 2002 appeal was JBs own fault. Unlike an appeal referred by the single judge, a referral by the CCRC allows other points to be thrown in without permission. I doubt any QC would have annoyed the court with the idiotic and ultimately self defeating nonsense that only Bamber could have insisted upon.
I think any defence that brings up evidence of a body being moved post mortem when his client is accused of staging the scene would likely be struck off - a point emphasised by the CoA regarding the bible issue.
Conversely, if I was guilty and attempting innocence fraud, wouldn't it be kinder to persuade me not to waste mine and everybody's time?
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
Do you see Mark Newby being struck off - is that what you are saying ?
Bamber and his campaign team are withholding a substantial amount of information from the public domain - especially related to Bamber’s abuse of JM
21 Warning Signs of an Emotionally Abusive Relationship
”You may find yourself feeling confused about the relationship, off balance or like you are “walking on eggshells” all the time. This is the kind of abuse that often sneaks up on you as you become more entrenched in the relationship. I am talking here about psychological abuse, which is also known as mental or emotional abuse.
Psychological abuse occurs when a person in the relationship tries to control information available to another person with intent to manipulate that person’s sense of reality or their view of what is acceptable and unacceptable. Psychological abuse often contains strong emotionally manipulative content and threats designed to force the victim to comply with the abuser’s wishes
https://psychcentral.com/blog/21-warning-signs-of-an-emotionally-abusive-relationship/
Without doubt this is what Bamber was doing to JM and more than likely why she didn’t go to the police sooner
Will Bamber’s supporters back these claims?
“Rhona Friedman was introduced to the case by the late investigative journalist Bob Woffinden who was convinced of the couple’s innocence. The journalist co-wrote a book on the case Bad Show: the Quiz, the Cough and the Millionaire Major which inspired a stage-play.
Theatregoers were given the opportunity to take the place of the jury via electronic voting. Overwhelmingly audiences found in favour of the couple; although not Chris Tarrant who, although he told the court he had no suspicions on the night, only last weekend wrote a piece for the Daily Mail saying Ingram was guilty. It is not known how the trial judge, Judge Geoffrey Rivlin QC, who also saw the production, voted.
“At the trial at Southwark Crown Court in 2003, Rivlin told the jury that when Ingram was ‘either a genuine millionaire or a fraudster’. After deliberating for nearly 14 hours, they opted for the latter and the Ingrams received an 18 month prison sentence suspended for two years and Whittock received 12 months.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/appeal-planned-in-coughing-major-case/
Oh the irony... JB winning a third appeal and having to go straight into Lockdown 8)><( @)(++(*
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
And Julie maintains her stand today.
If it was Virginia why has Anji suggested otherwise ?
“”Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.””
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
Anji Greaves apparently started seeing Bamber 2 days after the funerals - so that”s 18th Aug 1985
She told the Sun he went round to her Kensington flat
She stated,
“We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm round me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished ”
You can see why the defence didn't call these women as witnesses - Arlidge would have had a field day in cross exam, exposing more of Bambers dishonest nature and habit of treating people like objects, discarding them when they are no longer useful.
Can you provide evidence of what you are saying? You have no idea of the men and women who are friendly with Jeremy for various reasons. It is wrong of you to make assumptions and post as fact. One female who is extremely close to Jeremy is the film maker Emilia di Girolamo. She visits him regularly. She is neither old, frumpy or lacking a man in her life and is an intelligent professional lady. There are many others like her and also intelligent men who are his friends. None of us know for sure if Jeremy is a murderer because we weren’t there on the night. Only Jeremy knows the truth. I wonder whether the extreme hatred you spout out is because you have something lacking in YOUR life! The truth will come out eventually when all undisclosed documents are released.
You said Mark Cropper ‘did a disappearing act’ ?
Did Sarah Hanover disappear with him?
It's always a source of puzzlement when you perceive someone is obviously deluded and hold bizarre opinions, grasping the totally wrong end of the stick.
Found this
Monday, 24 January 2011
"I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction"
"It is not easy working and campaigning for someone for almost 26 long years and I wanted to say a very special thank you to those people who have made a huge effort and a very big difference to me over the years these include: Scott Lomax, Mike Teskowski and Tracy Brazier, and in more recent years Tracy Williams, Mark Cropper, Sarah Hanover and other campaigners both old and new who wish to remain nameless but have done so much for me.
I am also aware that it is a heavy burden of responsibility for anyone to carry over a long period and there are a large number of paper documents dispersed across many different counties. This brought the need for an electronic document management system which is primarily for use by my lawyers. The Mark and Sarah are the administrators of this document share have kindly offered their services free of charge to implement a system which would cost thousands and it has been done in a relatively short space of time. They do not carry out research in a way that other campaigners do and their role is purely administrative.
I also wanted Mark & Sarah to web publish the latest evidence presented from my CCRC application on the internet in a user friendly format. They have to work within the restrictions and confines of the law as do my legal team, they cannot link to other web sites which do not meet legal obligations.
My apologies if anyone has been confused by disclaimers recently made on this or any other site which was an oversight on my part and not anyone else. Mark and Sarah strictly adhered to my requests at all times. They do not make decisions on my behalf but are merely the facilitators of the administrative actions I would carry out myself had I not been imprisoned.
Thank you to all of you for your concerns and kindness in recent days and I am proud that all of us work collectively and with unity in one direction - towards my freedom and good news on 31st January."
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Monday, January 24, 2011
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2011/01/i-am-proud-that-all-of-us-work_2026.html
Hi Caroline my post was a response to Ispy who said that all women who support Jeremy are desperate sad individuals. I was just demonstrating that this isn’t true. By the way Ispy obviously includes you as one of those people. How does that make you feel as you used to support Jeremy? I am still waiting for evidence to back up those sweeping statements. If we don’t stop wild assumptions being presented as facts then we lose track of the actual facts.
Well, I don't share Spy's view on that - which I am sure you realise. I have been called desperate and sad as someone who now thinks he's guilty so you can't win. I've never been call sad or desparate by anyone who actually knows me - bloody minded maybe but never sad or desparate @)(++(* - Anyway, hope you're keeping well ?{)(**
And the Home Secretary would have access to ALL of Bamber’s reports - including the ones he doesn’t want his campaigners & supporters to see
The following was ‘Originally published in the Guardian on 29 October 1986’
“Jeremy Bamber, the farmer's son who boasted that he could commit the perfect crime, was gaoled for 25 years yesterday after he was found guilty of murdering five members of his family.
Bamber, aged 25, shot and killed his adoptive parents, Neville and June Bamber, both aged 61, his sister, Sheila Caffell, aged 27, and her six-year-old twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas, at their farmhouse in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex, in August last year in the hope of becoming the sole beneficiary of the family's £436,000 estate.
Bamber staged the massacre in such a way as to raise suspicions that his 27-year-old mentally ill sister had carried out the killings and then turned the gun on herself.
However, after considering the evidence for 9 ½ hours, the jury of seven men and five women at Chelmsford crown court brought in 10-2 majority verdicts against him yesterday on all five counts of murder.
Bamber, who had denied the charges and who had remained impassive throughout the 18-day trial.
Sentencing him, Mr Justice Drake told Bamber that his conduct in planning and carrying out the killing of five members of his family was "evil almost beyond belief".
"It shows that you, young man though you are, have a warped, callous and evil mind concealed behind an outwardly presentable, civilised manner."
The judge said that Bamber's action in killing his mother, father and sister had been dreadful enough. But he went on: "You fired shot after shot into them and also into the two little boys aged six who you murdered in cold blood while they were asleep in their beds.
"I believe that you did so partly out of greed because, although you were a well-off young man for your age, you were impatient for more money.
"You wanted to be master of your own life and to enjoy an inheritance much of which would have come to you anyway in the fullness of time."
In recommending that Bamber serve a minimum of 25 years in prison, Mr Justice Drake said he had to consider when it would be safe to release into society a person who had planned and killed five members of his family.
The police initially believed that Sheila Caffell had indeed carried out the killings and then committed suicide. Before carrying out the murders, Bamber told his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, that he had devised "the perfect murder" in which his sister would be the scapegoat.
A month after the killings, Miss Mugford went to the police and told them that Bamber had confessed to her he was responsible.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/oct/29/archive-essex-family-murders-trial-1986
Aunt Agatha why didn’t Bamber ever tell Brett Collins what he’s told you and others?
”But Brett today demolishes the idea that Bamber can prove he has an alibi which means he could not have been responsible for the massacre.
He insisted:
“He didn’t ever bring up someone being inside or being seen at the window when the police were there with him to me. It’s just bulls**t.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285
He didn't bring it up in any of his witness statements either, nor did he mention it when he was arrested - "You can't be serious, all three of us saw someone moving in the house, that's why we ran away"
He only mentioned it at the trial when he became desperate. It was either Rivlin or Lawson that suggested the phrase "a trick of the light" to PC Bews in cross exam. JB is still furious about it.
The CT and supporters still claim that they all saw "a figure" but all PC Myall saw was possible "movement" out the corner of his eye which they quickly dismissed.
The question I really want answering is this; Do the CT really believe the guff they post or are they deliberately committing innocence fraud?
What's your definition of 'supporter'?
I believe JB to be at the very least a MoJ and in all probability innocent but to start beating the drum about the so-called 'trick of the light' as an alibi some 34 years later doesn't help his case at all. Hence he was called out on it by BC.
If PS Bews, PC Myall or JB thought the 'trick of the light' was someone moving around inside then how come this isn't mentioned in their wit stats? None of the officers who arrived later mention it either.
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.
I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!
JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.
Thank you.
Yes if I was part of the CT I would want everything done very differently. I immediately came to loggerheads with a senior member over the graveside reading and decided I could not and would not become part of it.
No idea but if his you would hope they would talk him out of it.
It seems to me the CT are controlling personalities and can't bear the idea of sharing the glory when this MOJ is finally overturned.
I don't mind admitting that you Holly are the most intelligent JB supporter I have come across and I respect your deep understanding and research of the case, but I have to say, there isn't a lot of competition for you!
JB should have begged you to lead the team rather than let them become the laughing stock they really are.
Indeed, what I meant regarding the CT need for control was really a transparent need to be JBs favourite which would give them motive to oust any competition for that position.
I have the same opinion of the Bamberettes as you call them although I refer to them more unkindly as mind controlled cult members, but it's important to delineate the CT from those that mindlessly repeat their nonsense.
The CT itself is something of an enigma, are they serious in their beliefs or do they deliberately spread long debunked misinformation because they know it will attract unquestioning new recruits?
Can you imagine them working for years, baking cakes and spouting lies about CAL and then allowing someone intelligent such as Holly to come along and crack the case? ( assuming the case can be cracked )
Sister rivalry? Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.
How much do you think the SB is worth now?
Yes have seen their BS on the cab rank rule too - ‘In practice, the rule has been watered down since its inception’ *&^^& ergo it’s a fallacy
“The fundamental principle that a barrister, like a cabbie, has to take the first “fare” that arrives. The obvious rationale being to ensure that no-one simply cherrypicks the plum cases (to mangle a fruit metaphor), and to maintain the cherished independence of the bar.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/glossary/
Lots of good questions Nicholas,
What happened for BC to resurface and turn on his old mate apart from another 2 minutes of fame and a modest cheque from a journalist?
The subject we all want him to shed light on is the attempt to sell Sheila's dignity to the NOTW and his part in it.
Was BC more involved or suspicious than he is prepared to let on?
Julie can't really do anything else. After all these years, she can hardly say her statement was not the whole truth. She would be in a LOT of trouble.
But then again, perhaps she did tell the whole truth.
Anji Greaves apparently started seeing Bamber 2 days after the funerals - so that”s 18th Aug 1985
She told the Sun ‘he called on her at her Kensington flat’
She stated,
“We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm round me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished. He said he really wanted to get married.. ” 29th Oct 1986
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10683033/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-sheila-caffell/
If he started "seeing" her two days after the funerals, by turning up at her flat, it's fairly certain that he must have already known her.
“Wednesday 4 September 1985 – Jeremy took Julie to a café close to Sheila’s apartment shortly before 4pm and gave her a cheque for £400 to pay for a holiday with Liz Rimmington[6]. He then discussed their relationship, and after his arrest Julie banked this cheque along with another from Jeremy. On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves. In fury, Julie ran into the bedroom, picked up a wooden Chinese trick box that belonged to Jeremy and threw it into a mirror, smashing it into pieces. Brett Collins also witnessed this from the next room in the apartment.
[/i]
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness
The CT team used the word ‘seeing’ April as in
This 7th Jan 2020 article appears to have mistakenly posted a photo of Anji Greaves ?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10115673/who-was-sheila-caffell-mental-health-children/
Holly’s been trying to crack it since 2014 (maybe longer) and still hasn’t even made a dent...
But there’s no dent to make as he’s guilty as sin. His psychiatrist said that when he was on remand and diagnosed him as a psychopath
This is what he appears to have written to CAL
“Jeremy states that after he was led down to his cell for the night , DCI Taff Jones paid him a visit:
He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
The CT team used the word ‘seeing’ April as in, ‘another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves’ - it’s confusing *&^^&
And this 7th Jan 2020 article appears to have mistakenly posted a photo of Anji Greaves
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10115673/who-was-sheila-caffell-mental-health-children/
Do you think "seeing" is a modest translation of s----ing?
Oh, Bamber was a charmer alright! Rumpy-pumpie in the sky with a total stranger and poor Anji Greaves inconsolable when she learned he'd been convicted...
From "The Murders at White House Farm" by Carol Ann Lee...
Anji Greaves had waited for the verdict in a hotel not far from Chelmsford with two friends and a journalist. Her room was decorated with ‘Welcome Home, Jeremy!’ banners, and she wore her glitziest outfit, with a bag packed; the journalist intended to write Jeremy’s story when he was acquitted and then hustle the couple off on holiday. But when the television news delivered the outcome, Anji walked out in a daze, narrowly avoiding being run over. She told the journalist: ‘I feel so much loyalty for Jeremy but I do not know if I can bring myself to go on visiting now. It could be a life sentence for both of us.’
CS,
I think you meant to write “IFthis MOJ is overturned “
Not “WHEN”
You’re sounding like you think it will be...I can assure you it won’t ever be overturned.
Sarcasm doesn't translate well to the written word. I was channelling the mind of a Bamberette, some of whom really are convinced that the authorities all "know" he is innocent and once they expose the biggest, most complex conspiracy in history, millions of people will take to the streets and "they" will have no choice but to free him
The only way the conviction will be overturned is on a technicality and I would say the chances of that are nil if the latest conspiracy fantasies are the best he can do.
The conviction will not be overturned on a technicality but on a mountain of fresh forensic evidence.
JB's MoJ is no different from other high profile and long running MOJ's all of which contain similar features.
JB's case has dragged on for longer because unlike other MOJ's who benefitted from continuous and reliable support from family members, JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.
The conviction will not be overturned on a technicality but on a mountain of fresh forensic evidence.
JB's MoJ is no different from other high profile and long running MOJ's all of which contain similar features.
JB's case has dragged on for longer because unlike other MOJ's who benefitted from continuous and reliable support from family members, JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.
Rightly or wrongly, however one looks at it, family support is something that (IMO), Jeremy is never going to have. I cant comment on the "supporters" to which you refer, as I know little about them. This, I know, is off topic, but there is an American case with a number of similarities, that of Dr Jeffrey MacDonald. He has done even more years than Jeremy.
JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.
I admire your confidence Holly but I can't even see a molehill of fresh evidence ever being built, never mind the mountain required.
The case is not comparable to other (actual) MOJs at all. There has never been a case in history where the police knew the perp but decided to expose their own incompetence and fit up a completely innocent man instead.
I don't think the police did know the perp. It is the only peacetime mass shooting unwitnessed by independent alive others. The mistake everyone made imo was not getting experts in from outside UK who deal with gun crime and mass shootings routinely.
When UK Gov opened investigation into Bloody Sunday it instructed Dr Vincent Di Maio who is a US based internationally renowned expert in the pathology of gunshot wounds. Why did UK Gov look to US and not instruct the likes of UK based Malcolm Fletcher?
Dr Vincent Di Maio was involved in the JFK reconstruction I uploaded and I've relied heavily on his forensic textbook for my research into JB's case:
https://books.google.com/books/about/Gunshot_Wounds.html?id=VbrDbbHAflsC
As much as I disagree with her conclusions, Holly does at least approach the case from a serious angle and is prepared to argue her version of events, unlike the CT who are just plain mad and operating a cult. I respect Holly for that.
I share her disdain for Bambers poor understanding of his own case and the CT whose various members have allowed him to not just muddy his own waters but take a great big steaming dump in them.
From what I can gather, what she is trying to do is undermine the blood/silencer evidence which, if it's possible, would be enough on it's own to render the conviction unsafe and the CoA would order a retrial. This is basically trying to overturn the conviction on a technicality and goes nowhere near proving him innocent which IMO, can't be done. There is too much evidence against him.
If he started "seeing" her two days after the funerals, by turning up at her flat, it's fairly certain that he must have already known her.
Sarcasm doesn't translate well to the written word. I was channelling the mind of a Bamberette, some of whom really are convinced that the authorities all "know" he is innocent and once they expose the biggest, most complex conspiracy in history, millions of people will take to the streets and "they" will have no choice but to free him
The only way the conviction will be overturned is on a technicality and I would say the chances of that are nil if the latest conspiracy fantasies are the best he can do.
As much as I disagree with her conclusions, Holly does at least approach the case from a serious angle and is prepared to argue her version of events, unlike the CT who are just plain mad and operating a cult. I respect Holly for that.
I share her disdain for Bambers poor understanding of his own case and the CT whose various members have allowed him to not just muddy his own waters but take a great big steaming dump in them.
From what I can gather, what she is trying to do is undermine the blood/silencer evidence which, if it's possible, would be enough on it's own to render the conviction unsafe and the CoA would order a retrial. This is basically trying to overturn the conviction on a technicality and goes nowhere near proving him innocent which IMO, can't be done. There is too much evidence against him.
His case is far too serious for him to be acquitted on a technicality
There’s stacks and stacks of evidence against him: one little technicality would be the equivalent of a pig’s burp — as his supporter, De’arth likes to quote 🐖🌬
Undermining the blood/silencer evidence isn't a technicality. It underpins the conviction.
I don't believe a retrial would be ordered.
A reconstruction is important not just to support JB's case but from a VARK perspective too.
We know the blood/silencer is the key evidence. If it wasn't it wouldn't have been referred to Coa in 2002 on the back of this.
The case whole 2002 appeal is utter tosh. Never mind third time lucky!
“He looked at me and he said: “We’re letting you out.’ I went, ‘Great.’ He said , “That Julie’s full of shit.’ Those were his words: ‘That Julie’s full of shit. And off I went. In my own mind I knew she was angry about things. And I actually thought I would be able to go and see her and say to her: ‘What’s that all about? I’m sorry. I didn’t realise my behaviour would so upset you that you’d be [prepared] to lie.” And I genuinely thought I was going to go and see her, after getting out of the police station. She was put in police protective custody from then on.”[/i]
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
This is yet more of Bamber’s BS - bet this conversation with Taff Jones never even took place
He started ‘seeing’ Anji 2 days after the funerals so what would he be going to see JM about?
Plus he’d told Anji he’d “been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her it was finished”
This is yet more of Bamber’s BS - bet this conversation with Taff Jones never even took place
He started ‘seeing’ Anji 2 days after the funerals so what would he be going to see JM about?
Plus he’d told Anji he’d “been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her it was finished”
Pathological liar
The conviction will not be overturned on a technicality but on a mountain of fresh forensic evidence.
JB's MoJ is no different from other high profile and long running MOJ's all of which contain similar features.
JB's case has dragged on for longer because unlike other MOJ's who benefitted from continuous and reliable support from family members, JB has had all manner of misfits dipping in and out from complete cranks to a bogus lawyer.
Tell tail sign of a coward, cheat, master manipulator & predator
“To draw you closer, narcissists & psychopaths create an aura of desirability—of being wanted and courted by many. It will become a point of vanity for you to be the preferred object of their attention, to win them away from a crowd of admirers. They manufacture the illusion of popularity by surrounding themselves with members of the opposite sex: friends, former lovers, and your eventual replacement. Then, they create triangles that stimulate rivalry and raise their perceived value. (Adapted from “The Art of Seduction” by Robert Greene).
A note before I continue: people fall in and out of love. People find new love, before and after relationships come to an end. People cheat on one another. This section is not about these everyday occurrences—no matter how heartbreaking and unfair they might be. Instead, I will be describing a very specific set of patterns and behaviors that psychopaths utilize in order to torture and control their targets.
Psychopaths, like most predators, seek power and control.
https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/torture-by-triangulation.134/
Anji Greaves apparently started seeing Bamber 2 days after the funerals - so that”s 18th Aug 1985
She told the Sun ‘he called on her at her Kensington flat’
She stated,
“We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm round me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished. He said he really wanted to get married.. ” 29th Oct 1986
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10683033/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-sheila-caffell/
https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/torture-by-triangulation.134/
Appears Bamber was by this point devaluing Anji Greaves
“then the more destructive envy comes out and they start devaluing you. This is when the emotional abuse and “gaslighting” will start, where they slowly start to erode your sense of perception and reality.
Oh, the irony...and you’re too daft to even see it ^*&&
Apologies if I hit a nerve, General...I hope you’re feeling better
Mark Newby said:
“The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”
“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.
“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.
“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”
So it appears is Mark Newby
Mark Newby said:
“The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”
“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.
“It’s fair to say when we go back to the CCRC we will have a pretty strong package which we hope they will refer to the Court of Appeal. We hope we will get it across the line.
“If we do, it is probably this country’s greatest ever miscarriage of justice.”
Well, that’s promising...
Check the words:
SUGGESTS
SHOULD lead
PRETTY strong
We HOPE
We HOPE (2)
IF we do
He sounds very optimistic -— not ?8)@)-)
Mark Newby said:
“The evidence strongly suggests the chain of events could not have been what the prosecution alleged.”
“The phone call information is consistent with what Jeremy Bamber always said. It is part of a package of evidence that should lead to a positive review for Jeremy.
Then why has Bamber changed his timings? A few years ago Jeremy was adamant that he called the police at 03:26, accusing West of altering the log from 03:26 to 03:36. I have the document that the CT formulated detaining how they believed West perjured himself over the logs. In their argument, EP were supposed to have changed the times to make it look as though Bamber had called Julie first and he was adamant he called police around 03:20 (at that point). Now he and they are arguing the that Bamber did indeed call West at 03:36 in order to bluff a call from Nevill. The CCRC aren't stupid!
Lomax has Bamber phoning West at "just before 3.20" - and he is his official biographer.
I think the further new evidence is a log from Witham timed at 3.37 stating Bamber is still on the phone to West.
The idiot admitted calling Julie first!
I always thought that there was simply a mistake on one of the logs and that the court made an assumption in Bambers favour after hearing from West, settling on 3.26 but perhaps it was later, meaning he faffed around even longer after his father called sounding "terrified"
Oh for and upgraded BT exchange and proper phone records!
Exactly but now he is arguing that he called at 03:36. After he found out I had changed my mind about his innocence, he wrote to me asking why. One of the reasons was his changing of the timings - when I mentioned this to him, he wrote back saying he hadn't changed them at all (I guess he thinks we are idiots and can't read or that he is so clever, we might not notice @)(++(*) - he followed the denial by telling me he had new logs, not the ones on the internet. I guess he forgot that he had previously sent me copies of the logs he had - they were the same as those on the internet @)(++(* @)(++(*
Good grief. *%87
He is just like a child caught with an empty cookie jar, he thinks because no one saw him actually eat the cookies he can just deny it and still have pudding!
The first item of evidence they are demanding on their pointless petition is the recordings of the "two" phone calls so voice analysis can prove JB didn't make them both! - They cannot be serious?
Good grief. *%87
He is just like a child caught with an empty cookie jar, he thinks because no one saw him actually eat the cookies he can just deny it and still have pudding!
The first item of evidence they are demanding on their pointless petition is the recordings of the "two" phone calls so voice analysis can prove JB didn't make them both! - They cannot be serious?
Yes, very much like a child - he called me 'naughty' - which kind of creeped me out!
I don't read their twaddle but any list is no doubt based on fiction. I certainly can't see how West would have recorded the call he received and if Bonnett's call was recorded, it wouldn't be Bamber talking to him, it would be West @)(++(*
Apart from trying to change Holly's mind, I wonder what we are all really doing here. Guilters are redundant when the CT do such a good job of undermining him.
Although I think sometimes what he fears the most is being forgotten and they have helped him put his name on the map.
Right in the middle of Sc..thorpe
Then why has Bamber changed his timings? A few years ago Jeremy was adamant that he called the police at 03:26, accusing West of altering the log from 03:26 to 03:36. I have the document that the CT formulated detaining how they believed West perjured himself over the logs. In their argument, EP were supposed to have changed the times to make it look as though Bamber had called Julie first and he was adamant he called police around 03:20 (at that point). Now he and they are arguing the that Bamber did indeed call West at 03:36 in order to bluff a call from Nevill. The CCRC aren't stupid!
The Commission’s contribution to society is important. Miscarriages of justice remain a reality, as are the challenges to the organisation charged with their investigation. The CCRC Chairman’s concluding words provide an apt statement of aspiration: “We can’t know whether a particular person is telling the truth or not. We do not know whether they committed the crime they are accused of or not.” But, he said, people are entitled to be taken seriously when they approach the CCRC claiming to have been the victim of a miscarriage of justice. “Detailed, thorough, impartial investigation may confirm what they are saying – or it may tell us otherwise. But the possibility that what they are saying may indeed be the truth must always, always be our starting point. How different might the case of the Birmingham Six have been had it been approached from the beginning in that spirit?”
We can all agree that the investigation was a complete shambles from the beginning but the inquest recorded it as murder-suicide and Taff was convinced that it was. No one (except the relatives) would have batted an eyelid if JB had inherited the lot and sailed off to quickly spend it all on cocaine and Bollinger and neither would there have been two inquiries into the EP that they invited on themselves by changing course and exposing their own bungling but the fact is, they were lead eventually by the evidence.
If they had treated JB as a possible suspect from the beginning as they would today, the case would have long faded in the memory.
I can't agree that MF was not up to the job, he had 13 years experience and could draw on any other published expert opinion to back up his own. He was honest enough to say that the phenomenon of back spatter was not fully understood at that time - he didn't mean not fully understood by just himself but by anyone in the field at that time. Do you really think he went to the Old Bailey armed with only his own opinion and hunches ( and not just on the back spatter) ?
I'll have a look at Dr Di Maio in a bit but I can't see how a JFK style reconstruction would have helped, we know roughly where the killer was in WHF as evidenced by the casings etc, it tells us nothing about who the killer was, just as if there had been two people in the book depository in Dallas, all we would know is roughly where the bullets came from.
Jeremy Bamber has no family because he killed them all
We know the blood/silencer is the key evidence. If it wasn't it wouldn't have been referred to Coa in 2002 on the back of this.
The case whole 2002 appeal is utter tosh. Never mind third time lucky!
Bamber’s campaign team have made claim:
“Essex police have also ignored a request for material from the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) under section 17 of the Criminal Appeals Act.
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter
And recently:
“....the Criminal Cases Review Commission who have already unsuccessfully tried to obtain disclosure of some of the documents requested in the booklet.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1254842621098426368
The usual BS.
The CT actually state themselves that the original handwritten log could not be located, not that disclosure was refused.
I'm willing to bet the CCRC have seen the "undisclosed" photographs they bleat on about and found nothing of value in them too - something their 2012 statement of reasons could shed light on.
It's the ultimate hypocrisy for team Bamber to harp on about non disclosure and the police "hiding the truth"
The usual BS.
The CT actually state themselves that the original handwritten log could not be located, not that disclosure was refused.
I'm willing to bet the CCRC have seen the "undisclosed" photographs they bleat on about and found nothing of value in them too - something their 2012 statement of reasons could shed light on.
It's the ultimate hypocrisy for team Bamber to harp on about non disclosure and the police "hiding the truth"
He told me years ago that he had 'almost' all of the withheld stuff, he told CAL that he had all of it. You can go on forever saying evidence if withheld and people will believe it.
So what’s in their submissions ?
“Joe Stone QC is representing Jeremy Bamber who has launched a high court challenge to the Crown Prosecution Service for its failure to disclose evidence that would undermine the safety of his conviction.
Joe Stone QC is instructed by Mark Newby of Quality Solicitors.
Press coverage can be found here: The Guardian
https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/joe-stone-qc-instructed-jeremy-bamber-launches-court-challenge-cps-withholding-evidence
“Joe Stone QC has specialised in criminal defence for over 30 years. He was called to the Bar in 1989 and appointed Queens Counsel (QC) in 2013.
He represents those indicted with all types of homicide (murder, manslaughter, death by reckless/careless driving and infanticide), large scale international drug conspiracies and top tier organised crime. He is also instructed privately in high profile sex allegations and has secured acquittals in the most complex of cases.
His primary focus is trial work and high profile appeals. He is currently instructed on one of the most notorious alleged miscarriages of justice in English criminal history – the Jeremy Bamber case. He has successfully represented over many years those indicted with murder under the joint enterprise rules in major city gang related stabbings, shootings and executions. He has conducted over 200 murder trials and is recognised in the directories as a leader in this field.
https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/joe-stone-qc
So what’s in their submissions ?
“Joe Stone QC is representing Jeremy Bamber who has launched a high court challenge to the Crown Prosecution Service for its failure to disclose evidence that would undermine the safety of his conviction.
Joe Stone QC is instructed by Mark Newby of Quality Solicitors.
Press coverage can be found here: The Guardian
https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/joe-stone-qc-instructed-jeremy-bamber-launches-court-challenge-cps-withholding-evidence
“Joe Stone QC has specialised in criminal defence for over 30 years. He was called to the Bar in 1989 and appointed Queens Counsel (QC) in 2013.
He represents those indicted with all types of homicide (murder, manslaughter, death by reckless/careless driving and infanticide), large scale international drug conspiracies and top tier organised crime. He is also instructed privately in high profile sex allegations and has secured acquittals in the most complex of cases.
His primary focus is trial work and high profile appeals. He is currently instructed on one of the most notorious alleged miscarriages of justice in English criminal history – the Jeremy Bamber case. He has successfully represented over many years those indicted with murder under the joint enterprise rules in major city gang related stabbings, shootings and executions. He has conducted over 200 murder trials and is recognised in the directories as a leader in this field.
https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/joe-stone-qc
Mass murderer Jeremy Bamber also referred to ‘life on Mars’ when being interviewed by David James Smith
“It was, Bamber pointed out to me, the days of life on Mars, the drama that depicted the bad old days of policing (He has seen the show on TV in prison. And loves it)
http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf
"I am delighted to endorse this comprehensive book on wrongful convictions. In its clear and concise terms it will help readers start to grasp hold of a system which is overly complex and stacked against those who have been wrongfully convicted. The book will help all those who have suffered an injustice to have direction as they continue to fight to clear their names.’ – Mark Newby, Solicitor Advocate, Jordans LLP, Doncaster
http://michaeljnaughton.com/?page_id=877
No defence: latest in Justice Gap series out - By Jon Robins 25 June 2013
‘Lawyers are at the heart of many cases of the wrongly accused and wrongly convicted: wrong, shoddy, lazy representation. It is a recurrent theme. It should haunt us.’
So said Gareth Peirce, speaking at the launch of Wrongly Accused: who is responsible for investigating miscarriages of justice?
No defence: miscarriages of justice and lawyers is that latest publication in the Justice Gap series and follows on from Wrongly Accused: who is responsible for investigating miscarriages of justice? (to be published in association with Solicitors Journal and Wilmington shortly). You can download that collection
"Show me a miscarriage of justice and, nine times out of 10, I will show you the blueprint that caused it, writes Eric Allison. Eric Allison is the Guardian’s prison correspondent.
This essay will feature in a new collection of essays (No defence: miscarriages of justice and lawyers) as part of the Justice Gap series and following on from Wrongly Accused: who is responsible for investigating miscarriages of justice? (to be published in association with Solicitors Journal and Wilmington). You can download that collection HERE.
Contributors for No Defence include Eric Allison; Dr Ros Burnett; Prof Ed Cape; Dr Dennis Eady; Francis Fitzgibbon QC; Mark George QC; Andrew Green; Campbell Malone; Michael Mansfield QC; Mark Newby; Daniel Newman; Paul May; Dr Angus Nurse; Correna Platt; Julie Price; Dr Hannah Quirk; David Rose; Adam Sampson; Satish Sekar; and Tom Wainwright. Thanks to all.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/no-defence-latest-in-justice-gap-series-out-now/
Mark Newby, Mike Naughton, Dennis Eady & Glyn Maddocks, Carolyn Hoyle, Carole McCartney and Josephine Hodgson giving evidence at the justice committee 13th Jan 2015
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507
Bamber’s control over his ‘targets’ is self evident
Then why has Bamber changed his timings? A few years ago Jeremy was adamant that he called the police at 03:26, accusing West of altering the log from 03:26 to 03:36. I have the document that the CT formulated detaining how they believed West perjured himself over the logs. In their argument, EP were supposed to have changed the times to make it look as though Bamber had called Julie first and he was adamant he called police around 03:20 (at that point). Now he and they are arguing the that Bamber did indeed call West at 03:36 in order to bluff a call from Nevill. The CCRC aren't stupid!
Exactly but now he is arguing that he called at 03:36. After he found out I had changed my mind about his innocence, he wrote to me asking why. One of the reasons was his changing of the timings - when I mentioned this to him, he wrote back saying he hadn't changed them at all (I guess he thinks we are idiots and can't read or that he is so clever, we might not notice @)(++(*) - he followed the denial by telling me he had new logs, not the ones on the internet. I guess he forgot that he had previously sent me copies of the logs he had - they were the same as those on the internet @)(++(* @)(++(*
Good grief. *%87
He is just like a child caught with an empty cookie jar, he thinks because no one saw him actually eat the cookies he can just deny it and still have pudding!
The first item of evidence they are demanding on their pointless petition is the recordings of the "two" phone calls so voice analysis can prove JB didn't make them both! - They cannot be serious?
”Last Resorts: Decisions and Discretion at the Criminal Cases Review Commission”
https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/content/last-resorts-decisions-and-discretion-criminal-cases-review-commission
He has living relatives, not that I think any of them support him!
Do you mean the Eatons?
Or Nevill’s nice and nephew?
I’d say they don’t give him a second’s thought...
We'll have to see but hopefully, the non-disclosure issue will be sorted out once and for all.
He told me years ago that he had 'almost' all of the withheld stuff, he told CAL that he had all of it. You can go on forever saying evidence if withheld and people will believe it.
Robert Greene is a brilliant author, and is amazingly accurate in reading the mind.
This excerpt here is fitting for JB, especially as he runs his group of recruits mainly online...he explains how they control people and gives an insight into what type of people are drawn to psychopaths.
“Psychopaths are also expertly skilled at surrounding themselves with givers—insecure people who find self-worth in taking care of others. This is why your giving seems so insignificant and replaceable during the relationship. They adore qualities in others who are nothing like you—sometimes even the exact opposite of you. The message is simple: you are no longer special. You are replaceable. If you don’t give them the worshipping they deserve, they’ll always have other sources. And even if you do give them positive energy, they’ll get bored of you eventually. They don’t need you. Their current round of fans will always spoil and admire them, making you believe that they truly must be a great person. But take a careful look around. You’ll notice that they all seem to have an unspoken misery about them.”
Except when he keeps popping up in the news or the CT perform another. ridiculous publicity stunt.
In an article published today on The Justice Gap “Not Innocent Enough to be Compensated?”, Mark Newby and Matthew Stanbury write:
“Current and future claimants will likely find that their prospects of success are not improved in any substantial way by this decision; however they will at least now be able to have some confidence that the secretary of state will be required to respect judicial rulings on the state of the evidence, and to have proper regard to the rules of evidence that applied in the original and any subsequent trial. They should at the very least know that if the Secretary of State does seek to go behind such rulings, he must give reasons for doing so, that may be amenable to judicial review, and that he should only make such a departure in exceptional circumstances.”
“Overall, they remain faced with a system in which the successive secretaries of state have demonstrated themselves only too willing to find ways to avoid paying out compensation no matter how hard the search for reasons to do so.”
https://gcnchambers.co.uk/miscarriage-compensation-test-case-succeeds-as-other-claimants-fail/
”The Court of Appeal needs to acknowledge miscarriages of justice – and ensure that they don’t occur in the future”
(2018)
https://www.thejusticegap.com/the-court-of-appeal-needs-to-acknowledge-miscarriages-of-justice-and-ensure-that-they-dont-occur-in-the-future/
“Overall, they remain faced with a system in which the successive secretaries of state have demonstrated themselves only too willing to find ways to avoid paying out compensation no matter how hard the search for reasons to do so.”
https://gcnchambers.co.uk/miscarriage-compensation-test-case-succeeds-as-other-claimants-fail/
Ian Lawless had his murder conviction overturned on a technicality thanks to Mark Newby
Apparently,
“Mr Lawless successfully appealed his conviction for murder in 2009 based on the fact that the only evidence against him was his own false confessions given due to mental health problems he had at the time.
I’ve no idea if Ian Lawless was monitored under MAPPA like Barry George was after being acquitted of murdering Jill Dando but after the CoA deemed his murder conviction ‘unsafe’ he went on to be ‘banned from every football ground in the country after an incident at Barnet.
[/i] https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/grimsby-town-fan-who-cleared-1187985
Imagine the carnage someone like Bamber could cause if he were to over turn his murder convictions ?
“Salvador’s legal team argues that the parole board rules’ blanket ban on public hearings is unlawful and, if successful, the challenge would force the government to change the regime. In particular, they argue that Parole Board Rules 2019, rule 15(3) requiring parole board hearings to be held in private offends the well-established principle of open justice as well as being in breach of the article six right to a fair and public hearing.
‘It is hoped that by providing Charles Salvador with the right to apply for a public parole hearing the public can gain a proper understanding of the parole process and it will push the secretary of state for justice to fully respect the independence of the Parole Board,’ comments his solicitor Dean Kingham of Swain and Co Solicitors.
The challenge is being brought by the same legal team, Dean Kingham together with barrister Matt Stanbury of Garden Court North, behind the recent challenge over concerns about the independence of the Criminal Cases Review Commission (the Gary Warner case – as reported on the Justice Gap here).
The government counters that open justice requirements are met by the possibility for a parole board to allow for observers and for a summary of a decision to be published. That falls ‘significantly short’ of what would be expected under the principles of open justice, the prisoner’s lawyers argue.
‘Charles Bronson’ became a fixture of the tabloid press over the years and is frequently referred to as ‘Britain’s most violent prison’. He now insists that he is a changed man. He changed his name in 2014 in tribute to the artist Salvador Dali.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/britains-most-notorious-prisoner-launches-legal-challenge-to-have-parole-hearing-held-in-public/
The usual BS.
The CT actually state themselves that the original handwritten log could not be located, not that disclosure was refused.
I'm willing to bet the CCRC have seen the "undisclosed" photographs they bleat on about and found nothing of value in them too - something their 2012 statement of reasons could shed light on.
It's the ultimate hypocrisy for team Bamber to harp on about non disclosure and the police "hiding the truth"
Do you see Bamber as ‘vulnerable’ Holly?
Yes.
‘course you do
So is Mark Newby also following along these lines ?
I'm no lawyer, but I think IF (and it's a massive IF), he was successful via the CCRC, he was have to face a retrial and Julie (I am sure) would be called.
Exactly but now he is arguing that he called at 03:36. After he found out I had changed my mind about his innocence, he wrote to me asking why. One of the reasons was his changing of the timings - when I mentioned this to him, he wrote back saying he hadn't changed them at all (I guess he thinks we are idiots and can't read or that he is so clever, we might not notice @)(++(*) - he followed the denial by telling me he had new logs, not the ones on the internet. I guess he forgot that he had previously sent me copies of the logs he had - they were the same as those on the internet @)(++(* @)(++(*
You asked me a question and I answered.
I've no idea how MN views JB and whether or not his personal and professional opinions differ.
Yes.
Do you mean the Eatons?
Or Nevill’s nice and nephew?
I’d say they don’t give him a second’s thought...
Why are you choosing to make the perpetrator a victim Holly ?
I witnessed this behaviour when Simon Halls guilt was exposed
You asked if I thought of him as vulnerable and I said yes.
If he's innocent then yes he's a victim too.
Excerpts:
”Thursday 2 November marked the CCRC’s celebration of twenty years of investigations and referrals back to the Court of Appeal Criminal Division at their 20th Anniversary Conference in London. The audience represented the range of stakeholders concerned with tackling miscarriages of justice: appeal lawyers, CCRC commissioners, members of parliament, forensic scientists, charity workers, investigative journalists, academics, and a handful of victims of wrongful conviction, including two who participated in panel discussions - Michael O’Brien and John Kamara.
”Commissioners too were keen to express their frustrations, agreeing that police misconduct and failure to disclose exculpatory evidence are two of the most common points raised by their applicants. Forensic experts concurred with the CCRC and others that such cases are likely to increase in number and severity as agencies struggle to manage the vast data sources made possible by mobile and satellite communications and other devices that takes considerable resources to search, making accidental and incompetent non-disclosure more likely.
“What is causing this declining rate was of interest to most in the audience, but Commissioners seemed unable to account for it. On the one hand, the Chair suggested that austerity could be a cause: a representative from the Ministry of Justice spoke about underfunding of criminal justice and cuts that might be affecting the quality of applications to the CCRC, with fewer applicants being legally represented due to restrictions on Legal Aid (this is currently being researched by the University of Sussex). In light of Hodgson and Horne’s research, which found that CCRC applications with legal representation were more likely to be successfully referred than those who weren’t, this is cause for concern.
“So where to from here? Many raised the need for more thorough research into contemporary threats to fair and equal justice, including a thematic review of miscarriages of justice cases.David Rose proposed a very sensible suggestion of making full trial and appeal transcriptions freely available to appellants and legal representatives in order to increase the chances of discovering flaws in the prosecution case and producing more robust applications to the CCRC. In turn, the CCRC proposed a new initiative to increase transparency in the form of a user group forum of interested stakeholders to share information as well as frustrations.
https://www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/righting-wrongs
A thieving, cheating, lying, manipulative predator is anything but vulnerable Holly
Yes.
This behaviour is like a subtle warning - your card is marked sort of thing
Has he ever done anything like this to Aunt Agatha or anyone else?
Wonder how many people he keeps track of out here via his spies & if the prison monitor this ? I doubt they do - they should after all it’s their job but more often than not they only ever monitor this sort of thing if it’s brought to their attention and even then the prison will protect themselves as opposed to the person who’s reported it
Best to report things like this to the police first so they have a record
Did Daisy report Bamber to the police or the prison ?
That's your perception of him not mine.
Regardless I think all prisoners are vulnerable.
I didn’t mention perception but it’s interesting you did
Perception Is Not Reality
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201908/perception-is-not-reality
That's your perception of him not mine.
Regardless I think all prisoners are vulnerable.
’Attention-seeker' has murder conviction quashed’
“ His solicitor,Mark Newby, said: "Ian is delighted to have his liberty today," but added that the case showed the continuing risk of "vulnerable people being pushed through the court process without the necessary safeguards in place".https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jun/16/ian-lawless-murder-conviction-quashed
Robert Greene wrote this you say?
Can you post a link 8((()*/
I meant all of them. There may be more distant relatives too, but I don't know.
I'm sure at least some of them DO give him a second thought------every time he plans an appeal.
And that’s all they give him: a quick second thought while they roll their eyes in boredom 🙄
Has anyone else noticed how the Criminal Cases Review Commission don’t appear to have commented publicly on this
Supreme Court’s judgment in Nunn a “disaster” that reinforced difficulties getting exhibits, says Mark Newby
https://mobile.twitter.com/C4CrimAppeals/status/964528097327566848
How many do you know?
How many do think Lady Edwina Grosvenor 'knows' ?
Who was the ‘close friend’ that claimed to the Suns Kieron Saunders, the day after the Murders (8th Aug 1985), SC ’had been taking methadone, a heroin substitute’?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7143593/jeremy-bamber/
I'm no lawyer, but I think IF (and it's a massive IF), he was successful via the CCRC, he was have to face a retrial and Julie (I am sure) would be called.
Maybe someone can post the front page of the Sun, which was published the day after the murders, on the forum
Who was Kieron Saunders source for the ’heroin’ comment and NB found ’near telephone’ with ’seven’ gun shot wounds?
Why do you think she was released as a witness from the appeal hearing?
“Lord Justice Kay, Mr Justice Wright and Mr Justice Henriques gave permission for her to be called, but no application was made for her to do so.
After the lunchtime adjournment, and following submissions from lawyers for both parties, she was released as a witness. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm
I think she was summonsed specifically to give evidence regarding her deal with the NOTW and her dealings with the bank. The court was able to bat away these spurious points of the appeal on the evidence that had always existed so there was no need for her to give evidence.
My perception is my reality.
Why do you think she was released as a witness from the appeal hearing?
“Lord Justice Kay, Mr Justice Wright and Mr Justice Henriques gave permission for her to be called, but no application was made for her to do so.
After the lunchtime adjournment, and following submissions from lawyers for both parties, she was released as a witness. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm
JB’s team didn’t want her to speak for obvious reasons...😌
John Curtis - Jan 2015 ‘Righting Wrongs’
David Rose - Oct 2011 ‘If they didn't do it, who did?’
“”Until today, the CCRC’s proceedings have taken place behind closed doors. Not any longer. Present while the four men weigh Hallam’s future are this reporter, and Live’s photographer. With the permission of Hallam and his family, we have been granted exclusive and unprecedented access.
“The CCRC has its critics. Meeting that ‘real possibility’ test through the discovery of fresh evidence or other compelling material not presented at a trial is not easy, and having considered more than 13,000 cases to date, the commission has referred only 478.
The legal academic Michael Naughton, of Bristol University, says the ‘real possibility’ test has made the commission overly timid, unwilling to risk referring a case where the outcome looks doubtful.
Yet to anyone who dealt with the system that existed to deal with alleged miscarriages of justice before the CCRC’s creation, it represents a significant advance. Before 1997 they were handled by a section of the Home Office, C3.
“Another prominent case is that of Jeremy Bamber, who was convicted in 1986 of murdering five members of his family in their farmhouse at Tolleshunt D’Arcy in Essex. The CCRC referred him to the Appeal Court in 2002, where he lost.
Earlier this year, having spent thousands of hours investigating a further application submitted by his lawyers, it reached a provisional decision that the points raised in this latest application were not compelling enough to meet the ‘real possibility’ test, though he still has a final chance to make further submissions.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2042831/Not-jailed-murder-actually-committed-crime--meet-commission-helps-clear-them.html
"Mr Bamber has an unrivalled knowledge of the case" @)(++(* Pull the other one!...
https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/colchester/18421158.jeremy-bamber-hearing-delayed/ (https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/colchester/18421158.jeremy-bamber-hearing-delayed/)
Given he carried out the murders - Bamber does have ‘an unrivalled knowledge of the case’
Given he carried out the murders - Bamber does have ‘an unrivalled knowledge of the case’
David Rose, alongside Satish Sakar & George Gretton commented on a 2014 article by Jon Robins for The Justice Gap headed, ’IPSO: Will new press regulator prove to be another toothless poodle?
https://www.thejusticegap.com/ipso-will-new-press-regulator-prove-another-toothless-poodle/
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198
Desperate timesIs that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198)
And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago *&^^&
Is that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!
Is that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!
Did you used to talk to Bamber about the above Aunt Agatha?
What did he think?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp
Yes I did. Its always been my theory. Always!!
Jeremy doesn't know what his father knew. But of course Neveille knew what was going on with these sick paedos and that got Neveille killed.
Are you on twitter Aunt Agatha ?
And have you heard of Carl Beech ?
Is that an undiscovered Brothers Grimm Fairy Tale?!
Forget Carl Beech.
He was used as an example to any others who dared to claim rape against these evil, dick badtards!!
Do some proper bloody research.
Whitehall is full of them!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp)They didn't manage to put a cork in Stan Jones' mouth for detecting the real culprit!...
April. Neveille was a hit job!
Not by Jeremy!!
I do not know exactly what person he had evidence on, but listen to whistle blowers, stating they even covered up for paedos, when it was needed.
I do not know exactly what person he had evidence on, but listen to whistle blowers, stating they even covered up for paedos, when it was needed.
I do not know exactly what person he had evidence on, but listen to whistle blowers, stating they even covered up for paedos, when it was needed.
April. Neveille was a hit job!
Not by Jeremy!!
How would "they" have known that "they" could use the Bambers' own gun?It's a fair point. Even the most junior of hitmen tend to bring a weapon along.
If ever there was a contrived scenario for passing the buck, that must surely take first prize!
It's vomit inducing.
Desperate times
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198
And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago *&^^&
In fairness, the truth is he had a few close friends in prison. He was not disliked as much as you state, in fact, when friends of his were on visits I'd be introduced to them and their visitors.
Jeremy had a close knit around him and many believed
he was innocent. He has also lost some good friends in there during his imprisonment and there is definitely a side to Jeremy you have not seen.
If ever there was a contrived scenario for passing the buck, that must surely take first prize!
And not a squeak out of Bamber for 35 years that anything so utterly stupefying ever happened.
It's a fair point. Even the most junior of hitmen tend to bring a weapon along.
“That's why when at the seaside I always take care to roll up BOTH trouser legs. If I only roll up one then before I know it I'm surrounded by men with one trouser leg rolled up
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg150079.html#msg150079
@)(++(*
I honestly do believe, based on my early conversations with Jeremy, before the rest of the info was given to us, purely as a distraction, that thus was a prefessiinal job done made to look like Jeremy did it.
It makes sense.
Someone at the window.
Talking to someone in the house.
The figure seen in the fields running away from the direction of the house.
The delayed entrance by firearms unit.
Having Jeremy call the police in.
Why Neveille phoned Jeremy and not the police.
If ever there was a contrived scenario for passing the buck, that must surely take first prize!
And not a squeak out of Bamber for 35 years that anything so utterly stupefying ever happened.
I’m sure you do
Btw that watch you’ve got is a fake
Well, I think you're of a minority here and I don't give a damn what you think about the watch. It's pure distraction.
Jeremy is innocent!!
I honestly do believe, based on my early conversations with Jeremy, before the rest of the info was given to us, purely as a distraction, that thus was a prefessiinal job done made to look like Jeremy did it.
It makes sense.
Someone at the window.
Talking to someone in the house.
The figure seen in the fields running away from the direction of the house.
The delayed entrance by firearms unit.
Having Jeremy call the police in.
Why Neveille phoned Jeremy and not the police.
Desperate times
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198
And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago *&^^&
Sorry AA - I don't buy that - where did this person go? Nevill said ;Sheila' has got the gun. I don't blieve there was any figure running away and there was no talking to anyone in the house.
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.
The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.
The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.
The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.
Did Jeremy tell you any of this AA?
I'm sorry that makes no sense at all because the so called hitman would have to be a complete idiot. How could they possibly know that Jeremy wouldn't cal; the police and that they would be trapped inside WHF - which is indeed what happened, so where did they go? You can believe that the police spotted someone scarpering and just let them go? I suspect Jeremy told you some of this?
Well, I think you're of a minority here and I don't give a damn what you think about the watch. It's pure distraction.
Jeremy is innocent!!
I feel he was too frightened too discuss it too much or go public incase they got to him. He has seen what they did to his while family. He would then become the target!
If Neveille was held at gunpoint, and told to get Jeremy on the scene, as that was part of the plan, then he would do it. Especially if family members where at risk.
The other info was the info we had at the time. Bthe rest is smoke and mirrors.
I wonder from whom it was you were given this information? I suspect it must have been Jeremy -and if he was privy to such information before the murders, he'd have done better to have done something about it rather than putting his energies into being a playboy drug dealer. I believe he's done a wonderful of job blinding you to reality, for which I'm truly sorry.
That was part of the plan. The police had to be called. To stage the house and keep Jeremy out.
I feel he was too frightened too discuss it too much or go public incase they got to him. He has seen what they did to his while family. He would then become the target!
I wonder why they didn't let Nevill tell Jeremy more information such as, "come quickly and don't call the police", and then leave the door open for him to get in?
Seems like Jimmy Savile hired some amateurs for the job
I have to say though, this is the most plausible explanation for Jeremy's innocence that I've ever heard.
Maybe easier now to understand how and why JM didn’t go to the police sooner ?
Did Bamber tell you it wasn’t his sister?
Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.
He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.
Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.
Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.
He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.
Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.
Did Jeremy actually tell you this?
Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.
He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.
Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.
This was early days. We I’d t know but we questioned whether someone else could have done it, yes. However, Jeremy knew he was innocent but had no idea who or how he was framed.
By proving Sheila could not have committed the crime, Jeremy was found guilty by default.
This was early days. We I’d t know but we questioned whether someone else could have done it, yes. However, Jeremy knew he was innocent but had no idea who or how he was framed.
By proving Sheila could not have committed the crime, Jeremy was found guilty by default.
The police had to be called. Jeremy is not going to go to the house without calling the police. Both Jeremy and the police had to be on site at the same time to frame Jeremy. If Jeremy wasn’t framed people would be looking for someone else. Whoever oversaw the immediate operation, ensured that things where in place, or as much as could be.
What falsified evidence ?
But he told you his dad was in the Masons?
The silencer for one.
Jeremys character has been torn to pieces, he isNOT the man he is portrayed to be. This had to be done to ensure the jury found him guilty.
If he didn’t know who did it he should have told the police that - not you
Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.
He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.
Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.
But he told you his dad was in the Masons?
You didn’t know him in the early days - you met him years later when he had no one
He did! That was part of his defence. He couldn’t prove it was anybody else he was too busy trying to defend himself. He told everybody he was innocent. He didn’t know whether Sheila did it or not. He only knew what he was told.
He was just the patsy.
Jeremy does not know what happened that night as he wasn’t there.
He arrived later on and was found guilty on falsified evidence.
Jeremy had no defence as he didn’t know what he was up against.
Early days compared to everyone else. I knew him in 1990.
But apparently, Nevill didn't tell Bamber to call the police, just to "come quick."
Oh blimey, Aunty Aggs.
*&^^& 8(8-))
What had to be done?
His father never stated come over your sister has gone beserk.
He stated she had a gun!
That’s enough for someone to call the police. I think Neville was told to say what he said, in the tone that he did, knowing it would freak Jeremy and he’d call the police. (Freak are my words, not jeremys before anyone picks me up on it.)
Early days compared to everyone else. I knew him in 1990.
so was Julie Mugford part of this operation to frame Jeremy from the beginning or was she threatened to force her to tell her lies later?
Do you think it's wise even talking about this in case they know you are on to them? I wouldn't want you having an "accident"
If he didn’t know ‘whether Sheila did it or not’ then it couldn’t have been a hitman could it ?
I cannot prove any of it. I’m no threat.
As for Julie, as I have no idea but I do believe Jeremy when he told me he did not phone her saying tonight is the night...
Please, stop asking stupid questions.
I’ve already stated, he never knew what happened.
His father never stated come over your sister has gone beserk.
He stated she had a gun!
That’s enough for someone to call the police. I think Neville was told to say what he said, in the tone that he did, knowing it would freak Jeremy and he’d call the police. (Freak are my words, not jeremys before anyone picks me up on it.)
Well, if it wasn't Jeremy who gave you the information, it means that someone else -in a high place?- knew about it, too, and it wouldn't have been Nevill. Had it been, Jeremy wouldn't have been living his playboy life style.
Come on - If that were true AA why did he blame his sister?
You’re twisting things!
SHE as in a women not his sister ?
PLEASE!! She meaning is sister. For goodness sake.
What about Anji ?
Was she a plant ?
PLEASE!! She meaning is sister. For goodness sake.
But it didn't freak him out, did it? He took the best part of 20 minutes and a phone call to Julie before he did.
This is my theory....it’s always been my theory from the beginning. Nothing else ever made sense. I sat with Jeremy almost every weekend for years....we discussed many things. I spoke to him on the phone daily for about 18 years. (that approx, don’t have me looking for exact dates),
So yes, I do know him.
Why did he not use this knowledge/why is he not now using this knowledge, as part of his defence.?
He did not phone Julie.
He was told the police where on their way. He was told to hang back. He drove there and a police car passed him on the way, speeding by. He had no idea what he was driving into and didn’t want to get caught speeding too. He was completely thrown by the phone call and did what he was told to do.
But he did. HE said he did. Julie's friend, who took the call, said he did. Julie said he did.
Re the police car. It was on an emergency shout. It would have been speeding. It was way ahead of Jeremy. How would they have caught him for speeding when they were in front of him on an urgent mission?
Daily, for 18 years? You visited him every weekend for years? Were you in love?
This is my theory....it’s always been my theory from the beginning. Nothing else ever made sense. I sat with Jeremy almost every weekend for years....we discussed many things. I spoke to him on the phone daily for about 18 years. (that approx, don’t have me looking for exact dates),
So yes, I do know him.
This is my theory....it’s always been my theory from the beginning. Nothing else ever made sense. I sat with Jeremy almost every weekend for years....we discussed many things. I spoke to him on the phone daily for about 18 years. (that approx, don’t have me looking for exact dates),
So yes, I do know him.
Daily, for 18 years? You visited him every weekend for years? Were you in love?
He did not phone Julie stating he was going to kill his family!
And he was overtaken by a police car.
He did not phone Julie.
He was told the police where on their way. He was told to hang back. He drove there and a police car passed him on the way, speeding by. He had no idea what he was driving into and didn’t want to get caught speeding too. He was completely thrown by the phone call and did what he was told to do.
How can someone like you (and Daisy) get suckered in by this worthless piece of crap? Did he defend you when Mrs Blobby and her gang began attacking you? No, he sided with them.
Aggy, you are far too good for him. And I think you know it.
I have no idea what he’s using.
I’m fed up of the bloody CT f....ing this up and this man needs to be removed from jail and this is only my theory.
He did phone Julie AA
So is it being suggested that Julie lied about the first call? Is it being suggested Julie was a part of the conspiracy you believe occurred? Yes, I agree that he was overtaken by a police car. Under the circumstances, I believe, at the speed they'd have been travelling, it's reasonable. What isn't is why he slowed down when it was obvious they were going to the same destination. No one would have questioned his need to get there.
It’s not like that. Seriously.
It wasn’t about sides. He wanted to protect me as much as possible. I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days. We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.
Those who came in later wanted to campaign for him....I never got involved for a long time. Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out and I became a target and they attacked me online.
They had to get rid of me if they were ever to get close to him. They told him lies about me, falsified an account of mine then sent him all this false evidence.
I’ve always stated, he had no access to the outside world and could only go on the information he was receiving and lots of bamberettes were encouraged to write to him showing false messages supposedly written by me.
Jeremy and I had disagreements about it, I protested my innocence but it was just my voice against many others, doing a character assassination on me.
I couldn’t cope with it all and stepped down. I acted off feeling I’d done my stint, it’s maybe time for others to take the lead.
With a broken heart, I stepped back.
He never betrayed me as such. The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it. He was shocked by it all, saddened but he had to make the best decision for him. He had to get out of prison and I respected his decision.
So, I walked away.
In order to have a theory like that AA, Jeremy would have had to have told you his dad was in the masons?
AA if you mind me asking, how/why did you initially contact he?
I was at a dinner in central london for business woman of the year (I was only a guest, nothing more).
At the table I was sat with someone who worked at the solicitor’s defending him. As a teenager I wanted to be a solicitor but my family couldn’t afford it, so I couldn’t follow my dream.
We sat and discussed jeremys case as When I followed the case on the news it didn’t add up. I was curious. I’d never heard of a miscarriage of justice and I asked if I could write to him. I really had no other motive than to know the truth I suppose...I don’t know.
So I wrote to him. I gave the solicitors address. He replied and we carried on writing. I eventually gave my own address and it went from there.
Thank you AA
It’s not like that. Seriously.
It wasn’t about sides. He wanted to protect me as much as possible. I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days. We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.
Those who came in later wanted to campaign for him....I never got involved for a long time. Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out and I became a target and they attacked me online.
They had to get rid of me if they were ever to get close to him. They told him lies about me, falsified an account of mine then sent him all this false evidence.
I’ve always stated, he had no access to the outside world and could only go on the information he was receiving and lots of bamberettes were encouraged to write to him showing false messages supposedly written by me.
Jeremy and I had disagreements about it, I protested my innocence but it was just my voice against many others, doing a character assassination on me.
I couldn’t cope with it all and stepped down. I acted off feeling I’d done my stint, it’s maybe time for others to take the lead.
With a broken heart, I stepped back.
He never betrayed me as such. The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it. He was shocked by it all, saddened but he had to make the best decision for him. He had to get out of prison and I respected his decision.
So, I walked away.
?
It’s not like that. Seriously.
It wasn’t about sides. He wanted to protect me as much as possible. I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days. We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.
He’s a psychopath AA
He wanted to protect himself
Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out
The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it. He was shocked by it all, saddened
Can you remember what it was ?
What did Bamber tell you they were saying about you ?
And why was he shocked and saddened ? About what?
What did Bamber tell you they were saying about you ?
And why was he shocked and saddened ? About what?
I don't know exactly what they said, he wouldn't tell me. He didn't want to upset me more than I already was..
Why dyou think he was saddened.? Don't waste my time with silly questions.
In my honest opinion, he’s not.
So, it seems he told you he was made privy to things you'd allegedly said, but refused to tell you what it was that you'd supposedly said. How, then, was it possible to defend yourself against those claims and accusations?
What do you think a psychopath is ?
BBC Journalist Anna Brees detailing how she started waking up.
Jeremy and I had no idea such things were going on in the world.
I doubt he has any idea that it's all exposed now and how people have come forward telling their stories of abuse by these people. I think his father knew something....
https://youtu.be/Dhhtz0D_Kiw
In my honest opinion, he’s not. I wouldn’t have spent 18yrs with him if I thought he was.
Don’t believe everything you read.
It’s all part of the character assassination. Smoke and mirrors.
Exactly!!
Forgive me, AA, but I can't help but notice how often you refer to "Jeremy and I" and talk about "We" almost as if you and he were locked up together, but you weren't and never were, save for your visits. After that you were free to live your life. Did you never take what he told you into your world, beyond the prison to try to verify what he'd said?
I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.
I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.
I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.
Things were said April
I have no idea who Yvonne is.
Does Yvonne live in Scotland AA? Or is that someone else?
How did the campaign start AA - via Mike T?
‘We’ as it was just him and I. There was campaign team, no supporters, no one to talk to. It was just us. That’s what I mean by ‘we’.
Of course I took my info with me but I was not going to be distracted by all the evidence to try and prove what I believed was impossible to prove.
If I go down the road of others, I have to prove jeremys innocence by proving Sheila guilty. What is neither of them were guilty. Jeremy even found it difficult to believe his sister could do such a thing.
Therefore, I cannot prove Sheila did it, neither could anybody really prove Jeremy did it. Nothing forensically states categorically that he did it, taking into account the latest forensically tests we have, which is why he will take any test you want. Nothing forensically has come up to cement his guilt...nothing at all. Because it can’the didn’t do it.
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198
Forget Carl Beech.
He was used as an example to any others who dared to claim rape against these evil, sick b......s!!
Do some proper bloody research.
Whitehall is full of them!!
Carl Beech is a convicted liar, fraudster and paedophile
Carl Beech has been used to highlight what happens to those who dare to seek justice, exposing those abusers in the upper class system. Unless, you really look into, he is guilty. Dig deeper and you will find what you're not being told.
This is what I believe Nevill knew. Somebody in high office has been a naughty boy and to ensure this secret never sees the light of day, Neveille is killed and Jeremy is given a whole life tarrif.
Jeremy Bamber prison interview in full courtesy of Jim Shelly
LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993
This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.
How do you feel now about your conviction ?
“I still can’t understand why I was convicted. It seems incredible to me, eight years after it all happened, still fighting away. There’s so much they don’t want to reveal. So much that they say they didn’t do which would have established my innocence. Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely. But, as my dad always used to say to me when any injustice happened to me in my childhood: “don’t worry Jeremy, the truth always comes out in the wash.” I think now the people helping me have been able to put together a package which, the bottom line, as they say, is that it is unimaginable that I would have been convicted had this evidence been before the jury.”
How much trouble have you had from other inmates ?
“Um, pretty much none. Very little. I’ve obviously made one or two enemies over the years. I would say the majority of prisoners believe in me – after reading the paperwork, meeting me, quizzing me. The prison staff extend to me, personally, every facility that they can. Very friendly. It’s not the same in every jail, and not the same for every prisoner.”
Have you had any physical assaults ?
“One in Franklin – from a guard, not a prisoner. It was a Control and Restraint technique. I smashed up my cell and went on a shit protest. It was to do with my case – a daft protest really when I look back at it. I asked for it. Apart from that, in all these years, I’ve never been touched.”
What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”
There is conflicting evidence about her actual ability to have committed these crimes with that weapon.
“My own opinion is that she would have had no trouble.”
What about her actual experience ?
“I can’t say that she’d had any particular experience with that particular weapon. It’s not difficult, not sophisticated. They’re simple things to operate. If she’d watched a cowboy movie, it’s almost as simple as that.”
You believe that she committed those crimes using the silencer ?
(Pauses) “My own personal belief, I believe that that’s a complete red herring. I don’t have evidence one way or the other on that. Not hard evidence. I believe that she didn’t use the silencer.”
Do you see the spark of this crime being the possibility of her children being fostered out ?
“It was something that was discussed. That was one of the many, many options that were discussed over how best to help her. What were the outside pressures causing her such distress ?”
Do you have any regrets about the way you behaved around the time of the funeral ?
“No, because a lot of those things have been grossly exaggerated by the media. I was so devastated at the loss of my family, in a sense I was trying to buy love from my friends by happily picking up the tabs, spending money to buy their affection, because I needed their love. So, no, I don’t regret that… I didn’t do anything wrong.”
What about when you went on holiday ?
“That was just with Brett Collins – we stayed in a caravan, not an expensive holiday.”
Any other regrets ?
“Yes, I suppose I do regret things. Not understanding early enough what was really going on, with the family. Being too selfish, too involved with what I was doing. I wish I’d been a better brother. Maybe Sheila and my mum and dad and Daniel and Nicholas would still be alive. I look back now and say, well, so much disturbance, why didn’t I do more ?”
ends
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
9h
Was Sheila Caffell accidentally shot by firearms officers training at the scene at #WhiteHouseFarm?
“The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell 'the wound' had been inflicted by her own hand.” PC995 Norman Wright
The #JeremyBamber case
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/single-gunshot-wound-to-sheila
Wow, it’s late now but I’ll highlight his lies tomorrow.
It’s littered
Jeremy Bamber prison interview in full courtesy of Jim Shelly
LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993
This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.
How do you feel now about your conviction ?
“I still can’t understand why I was convicted. It seems incredible to me, eight years after it all happened, still fighting away. There’s so much they don’t want to reveal. So much that they say they didn’t do which would have established my innocence. Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely. But, as my dad always used to say to me when any injustice happened to me in my childhood: “don’t worry Jeremy, the truth always comes out in the wash.” I think now the people helping me have been able to put together a package which, the bottom line, as they say, is that it is unimaginable that I would have been convicted had this evidence been before the jury.”
How much trouble have you had from other inmates ?
“Um, pretty much none. Very little. I’ve obviously made one or two enemies over the years. I would say the majority of prisoners believe in me – after reading the paperwork, meeting me, quizzing me. The prison staff extend to me, personally, every facility that they can. Very friendly. It’s not the same in every jail, and not the same for every prisoner.”
Have you had any physical assaults ?
“One in Franklin – from a guard, not a prisoner. It was a Control and Restraint technique. I smashed up my cell and went on a shit protest. It was to do with my case – a daft protest really when I look back at it. I asked for it. Apart from that, in all these years, I’ve never been touched.”
What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”
There is conflicting evidence about her actual ability to have committed these crimes with that weapon.
“My own opinion is that she would have had no trouble.”
What about her actual experience ?
“I can’t say that she’d had any particular experience with that particular weapon. It’s not difficult, not sophisticated. They’re simple things to operate. If she’d watched a cowboy movie, it’s almost as simple as that.”
You believe that she committed those crimes using the silencer ?
(Pauses) “My own personal belief, I believe that that’s a complete red herring. I don’t have evidence one way or the other on that. Not hard evidence. I believe that she didn’t use the silencer.”
Do you see the spark of this crime being the possibility of her children being fostered out ?
“It was something that was discussed. That was one of the many, many options that were discussed over how best to help her. What were the outside pressures causing her such distress ?”
Do you have any regrets about the way you behaved around the time of the funeral ?
“No, because a lot of those things have been grossly exaggerated by the media. I was so devastated at the loss of my family, in a sense I was trying to buy love from my friends by happily picking up the tabs, spending money to buy their affection, because I needed their love. So, no, I don’t regret that… I didn’t do anything wrong.”
What about when you went on holiday ?
“That was just with Brett Collins – we stayed in a caravan, not an expensive holiday.”
Any other regrets ?
“Yes, I suppose I do regret things. Not understanding early enough what was really going on, with the family. Being too selfish, too involved with what I was doing. I wish I’d been a better brother. Maybe Sheila and my mum and dad and Daniel and Nicholas would still be alive. I look back now and say, well, so much disturbance, why didn’t I do more ?”
ends
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
Such childish responses which if I'm honest isn't at all surprising given Bamber's limited intellect. His comparison of the Anschutz .22 rifle to that used by a cowboy in a western is bewildering.
There are no lies in there.
It's similar to what we discussed.
Desperate times
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198
And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago *&^^&
Don’t forget the Kevin Nunn case which Mark Newby referred to as a ‘disaster’
”Lawyers for Bamber – whose case is currently the subject of a six-part ITV dramatisation – have found in archives a series of statements by senior officers and the police surgeon that they say contradict that claim. They say the documents were never seen by the trial jury, and suggest that Caffell appeared to have only one gunshot wound when the police entered the crime scene.
“Mark Newby, a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, told the Guardian:
“The jury only heard of the two shots, which was relied upon by the crown to support their case, but this wasn’t the whole picture. It represents yet another significant aspect to this case which supports Jeremy Bamber and undermines this conviction.”
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Did the trial jury hear from the Vet, Anji and Virginia Greaves, Sue Ford etc ?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp
Aunt Agatha
”Nevill knew something!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp
”Claims police covered up historical child sex abuse by MPs and officers investigated - 2015
Claims that police attempted to cover up MPs’ involvement in child sex abuse dating back to the 1970s are being investigated.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has announced 13 further investigations into allegations of historical corruption in the Metropolitan Police and Essex Police.
Among the dozen allegations relating to Scotland Yard are claims that the prosecution of an unnamed government official for possessing indecent images of children was dropped on the order of senior officers.
Several investigations were allegedly shut down by “high-ranking” officers, while crucial evidence relating to child abuse involving politicians, council officers and police went missing in several cases.
Desperate times
Aunt Agatha
”I still believe that Neville was a High Member of the masons. I believe he know something that if exposed, would destroy the lives of those in question.
June was very religious. Some whitleblowers of the Grand Lodge have exposed evil deeds by those very High Members, including MP's and Royalty.
What if Ralph knew something about a member and what if he had evidence?
June I feel had a possible insight into the devil worship of these elites and was terrified it would encompass the family, therefore she did all she could to protect her husband and children from this, by instilling her Christian faith and beliefs.
The fear of exposure could have had Nevill killed... And his whole family had to go.
It was important that Jeremy was not at the farmhouse on the night of the killings. Why?
Jeremy was going to be the one to bring the police in. Nevill couldn't call the police... He knew this was a hit and he wouldn't get the help he needed with the Force having many freemason members too.
He had no choice but to call his son, the only person he believed in, that would come to his rescue.
Once the police where at the scene, they could then take over the scene and do what was needed to be done to set the stage to look like Jeremy did it.
Jeremy was the Patsy! Jeremy is innocent!!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479198.html#msg479198
And she’s posted on a thread ‘calling campion’ who passed away some time ago *&^^&
It could not look like an outsider did the hit.
Aunt Agatha
”Nevill knew something!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/claims-police-covered-up-historical-child-sex-abuse-by-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html%3famp
”Claims police covered up historical child sex abuse by MPs and officers investigated - 2015
Claims that police attempted to cover up MPs’ involvement in child sex abuse dating back to the 1970s are being investigated.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has announced 13 further investigations into allegations of historical corruption in the Metropolitan Police and Essex Police.
Among the dozen allegations relating to Scotland Yard are claims that the prosecution of an unnamed government official for possessing indecent images of children was dropped on the order of senior officers.
Several investigations were allegedly shut down by “high-ranking” officers, while crucial evidence relating to child abuse involving politicians, council officers and police went missing in several cases.
The police had to be called. Jeremy is not going to go to the house without calling the police. Both Jeremy and the police had to be on site at the same time to frame Jeremy. If Jeremy wasn’t framed people would be looking for someone else. Whoever oversaw the immediate operation, ensured that things where in place, or as much as could be.
I cannot prove any of it. I’m no threat.
As for Julie, as I have no idea but I do believe Jeremy when he told me he did not phone her saying tonight is the night...
How can someone like you (and Daisy) get suckered in by this worthless piece of crap? Did he defend you when Mrs Blobby and her gang began attacking you? No, he sided with them.
Aggy, you are far too good for him. And I think you know it.
I was at a dinner in central london for business woman of the year (I was only a guest, nothing more).
At the table I was sat with someone who worked at the solicitor’s defending him. As a teenager I wanted to be a solicitor but my family couldn’t afford it, so I couldn’t follow my dream.
We sat and discussed jeremys case as When I followed the case on the news it didn’t add up. I was curious. I’d never heard of a miscarriage of justice and I asked if I could write to him. I really had no other motive than to know the truth I suppose...I don’t know.
So I wrote to him. I gave the solicitors address. He replied and we carried on writing. I eventually gave my own address and it went from there.
It’s not like that. Seriously.
It wasn’t about sides. He wanted to protect me as much as possible. I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days. We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.
Those who came in later wanted to campaign for him....I never got involved for a long time. Then I stupidly opened my mouth on one of their campaign pages to correct the info they were giving out and I became a target and they attacked me online.
They had to get rid of me if they were ever to get close to him. They told him lies about me, falsified an account of mine then sent him all this false evidence.
I’ve always stated, he had no access to the outside world and could only go on the information he was receiving and lots of bamberettes were encouraged to write to him showing false messages supposedly written by me.
Jeremy and I had disagreements about it, I protested my innocence but it was just my voice against many others, doing a character assassination on me.
I couldn’t cope with it all and stepped down. I acted off feeling I’d done my stint, it’s maybe time for others to take the lead.
With a broken heart, I stepped back.
He never betrayed me as such. The evidence was piling up against me and I couldn’t do anything against it. He was shocked by it all, saddened but he had to make the best decision for him. He had to get out of prison and I respected his decision.
So, I walked away.
I can't help but wonder how that made you feel? Innocent of the claims being made about you, whatever they were, and Jeremy withholding that information from you. Did it not feel to you that Jeremy believed what was alleged to have been said? I find myself wondering why he didn't confront you with what you were allegedly accused of. The point I suppose I'm making is that I'm wondering if anything HAD been said as you have no proof.
Agatha, even BEFORE those days no prisoners, ESPECIALLY Cat A prisoners who were mass murderers were never, ever allowed to be alone with their visitors. Even prisoners who weren’t/aren’t Cat A are not allowed to be alone with their visitors.
Ever.
It was like that then, and still is now.
The prisons have (and did then too) a visitors hall where ALL the prisoners sit at individual tables opposite their visitors.
Before the prisoners are taken from their cell they’re searched head to toe, and are not allowed to take anything whatsoever with them.
The visitors are also searched thoroughly. No cameras allowed at all. No phones. No liquids. No food.
The prisoners are not allowed to get up from their seat. They can’t even go to the loo.
They have just one hour visits (or maybe two?) and they’re only allowed one one visit every week or fortnight, I’m not sure.
When the visits take place guards WATCH everyone and the prisoners are never left alone with their visitors. When the visits end the prisoners are taken back to their cells after being searched a second time.
It’s always been like that and still is.
Why are you coming out with such stories? You’re doing yourself no favours at all.
Aunt Agatha and I got to know each other when I was reading about the Bamber case. She was very supportive to me when Jeremy started being unpleasant to me. She knows him better than anyone. We remained friends after I severed contact with him and discussed several scenarios from that night. AA confided in me and I will never disclose anything she told me. I trusted her and she trusted me. We also met each other and had a brilliant day out with each other’s families.
We used to speak regularly on the phone and gave each other advice about things going on in our lives and I really valued her friendship. However about a year ago she stopped answering my calls and changed her phone number. I feel hurt and would just like to know what I have done to offend her.
Most of us are familiar with post prison images of JB in normal clothes. Who took these images?
SL's book contains an image of JB with a rather attractive man (def not SL) wearing normal clothes. Who was this person and who took the image?
If prison rules are so draconian how come so much contraband gets in? Surely not all from dodgy staff?
I cannot prove any of it. I’m no threat.
As for Julie, as I have no idea but I do believe Jeremy when he told me he did not phone her saying tonight is the night...
He did know what happened Aunt Agatha - sadly you’ve been conned
He did not phone Julie.
He was told the police where on their way. He was told to hang back. He drove there and a police car passed him on the way, speeding by. He had no idea what he was driving into and didn’t want to get caught speeding too. He was completely thrown by the phone call and did what he was told to do.
He did not phone Julie stating he was going to kill his family!
And he was overtaken by a police car.
Who’s fed her this rubbish? Oh, Jeremy, of course!
It’s embarrassing!
She clearly knows nothing at all about the Freemasons, but I do. Close family and friends are on the square: one is a master mason: and Ive read some of their book (akin to the Bible) and the words are BEAUTIFUL! The masons support many, many charities, including Great Ordham Street Hospital for children: they contribute towards helping the disadvantaged, and whilst it’s true they’ll give a helping hand to a fellow mason, it’s only done out of kindness and fellowship and they ONLY support each other in business providing it’s all legal.
They’d NEVER get involved with anyone unsavoury, and if they discovered he was they’d be thrown out their lodge. So all this talk about murders and masons it total rubbish made up by the ignorant.
Hello Daisy. It's lovely that you've been such good supports for each other. It must have been very difficult time for you both. It was all a very long time ago, now, and whilst I think it's easier to evaluate a situation from a distance, sometimes the situation gets blurred.
I feel concerned that AA recalls being isolated with him -a perfect scenario for indoctrination- and then having nowhere and no one with whom she could share it with. Even counselors have the luxury(!) of a supervisor who helps them make sense of what they've heard. I'm not in any way hearing that he wanted to protect her, I think he wanted to isolate her as a way of controlling her. It most certainly made it easy for him to discard her. It sounds very much as if he'd found someone more interesting to fill the place she was vacating. However, maybe you experienced exactly the same thing and felt he was protecting you?
I'm sorry you're no longer in touch. Circumstances created a strong bond between you. Might it be worth reaching out again?
You weren't there...Julie was. Jeremy Bamber is a compulsive liar...need I say any more?
It doesn’t mention the Freemasons, Agatha 😳
You know nothing about freemasonry.
I'm limited in what I can share on here, the best examples of what goes on in the Higher Ranks have been removed due to restrictions on free speech and censorship.
https://youtu.be/SACHXYQgHPE
With respect AA, that just goes to show how gullible you are and what's more, Bamber knows it. He has spun you a yarn just like the bullshit he told Julie about a hitman and she too believed him. @)(++(*
With close friends and family members who are Masons, I can't accept your denigration of them. We all know that there are rotten apples in every barrel/walk of life. NO organization is free of them. I don't accept there are more within Masons' ranks than in any other. "Old boys" networks are found everywhere. We all enjoy "mates' rates". I see nothing wrong with putting in a good word/having a good word put in. It's what happens in ALL 'clubs'. People point others in the right direction. Having said all of that, where is the proof, other than from Jeremy's mouth, that Nevill was ever a member of that organization you claim to be behind the murders?
JM wasn't there she was in London.
JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB. I would suggest the only reason JM did is that DS Jones threatened to throw the book at her if she didn't cooperate. This was a young woman, just turned 21 yoa, who was holed up in a police training room for days on end prevented from having any contact with the outside world, not even a solicitor or her mother.
She was there at the end of the phone Holly.She knows what Bamber said and what he had been saying for 18 months.
The rest is pure hogwash. What would DS Jones have thrown the book at her for if she hadn't told him everything in the first place? How many other people did she confide in before going to the police, was it 5? Do you think that maybe something was on her mind that became increasingly difficult to deal with as the scales fell from her eyes?
I am biased when it comes to Julie though, she is utterly gorgeous in those pictures of her in 2002
Mark Newby isn't that bad either, with big broad shoulders for Holly to climb on. Shame about the tiny todger though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14h6Fts25k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14h6Fts25k)
You need to read my post Very Carefully.
I have stated, he did not tell me this!
He was nervous about even discussing the idea.
It's what I believe happened. Me!
Did he never seek to disavow you of those beliefs, AA? A very good starting point would have been to tell you that Nevill wasn't a Mason. It seems to me that by his silence, he allowed your belief to take hold. It may have suited him to do so.
I was not isolated with him. He did not try and indoctrinate me or brainwash me.
I've stated early, what I am suggesting happened is my own theory. Not Jeremy's. He didn't suggest any of this to me. In fact, as I've stated earlier in my posts, he didn't want to discuss the idea and never has.
Did he never seek to disavow you of those beliefs, AA? A very good starting point would have been to tell you that Nevill wasn't a Mason. It seems to me that by his silence, he allowed your belief to take hold. It may have suited him to do so.
We used to speak regularly on the phone and gave each other advice about things going on in our lives and I really valued her friendship. However about a year ago she stopped answering my calls and changed her phone number. I feel hurt and would just like to know what I have done to offend her.
Hey Daisy,
I’ve not changed my number at all. It’s still the same. Call me when you get the chance. Look forward to catching up with you. Xx
Unbelievable.!
Why have you claimed AA changed her phone number ?
She didn’t
Is Agatha related to the Brookside fanatic on Twitter who claims it was watching Brookside that sent Sheila mad?🤨
And what’s all this nonsense that Freemasons worship the devil? Agatha seems very strange 😳
I'm not sure why you'd say that, AA. If you had a good friend who said something which could be of momentous importance, wouldn't you want to support them? On the other hand, if you believed it to be 'off the wall', possibly damaging, wouldn't you suggest that they had a rethink?
A mistake was made, OK Nicholas. End of!!
You need to read my post Very Carefully.
I have stated, he did not tell me this!
He was nervous about even discussing the idea.
It's what I believe happened. Me!
*&^^&
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.
One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.I get it, 'nervous' could mean 'reluctant'.
One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.
You know nothing about freemasonry.
I'm limited in what I can share on here, the best examples of what goes on in the Higher Ranks have been removed due to restrictions on free speech and censorship.
https://youtu.be/SACHXYQgHPE
Unbelievable.
We never sat and discussed it because I don't think he had any idea of what his father could possibly have known.
It's not common knowledge. One had to go researching for this info, who all the local MP'S were, who held power in that area, who's now passed over and who is still alive.
We have some very well known names that I'm never going to mention on here, who have had some real power involved in this.
I get it, 'nervous' could mean 'reluctant'.
JM wasn't there she was in London.
JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB. I would suggest the only reason JM did is that DS Jones threatened to throw the book at her if she didn't cooperate. This was a young woman, just turned 21 yoa, who was holed up in a police training room for days on end prevented from having any contact with the outside world, not even a solicitor or her mother.
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.
One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.
Essex police failings yet again.
https://youtu.be/BP5lS_zfEcc
Unbelievable.
We never sat and discussed it because I don't think he had any idea of what his father could possibly have known.
It's not common knowledge. One had to go researching for this info, who all the local MP'S were, who held power in that area, who's now passed over and who is still alive.
We have some very well known names that I'm never going to mention on here, who have had some real power involved in this.
‘Unbelievable’ indeed
Rest assured, AA, not for one moment would I expect you to say anything you're not comfortable with. My concern is why, when there's absolutely no proof of Nevill having been a Mason, did Jeremy allow your chain of thought in that area to continue?
Go and do some proper research!
He has not permitted it. He doesn't know what I think.
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.
Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc. This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.
Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc. This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.
Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc. This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.
You were with him for an extraordinarily long time -some 18 years, I think you mentioned. Are you saying that, in all that time, despite that he claimed to have no idea what had occurred -I believe you said "we had no idea"- you never shared any of your own thoughts with him?
You were with him for an extraordinarily long time -some 18 years, I think you mentioned. Are you saying that, in all that time, despite that he claimed to have no idea what had occurred -I believe you said "we had no idea"- you never shared any of your own thoughts with him?
Yes, I shared my thoughts but if he was reluctant to go down that road then there was nothing I could do. You cannot keep repeating the same mantra for 18yrs.
For many years there was no further disclosure than what we knew. Only when evidence came forward was Jeremy able to examine it.
My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.
It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.
The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.
Yes, I shared my thoughts but if he was reluctant to go down that road then there was nothing I could do. You cannot keep repeating the same mantra for 18yrs.
For many years there was no further disclosure than what we knew. Only when evidence came forward was Jeremy able to examine it.
My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.
It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.
The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.
Yes, I shared my thoughts but if he was reluctant to go down that road then there was nothing I could do. You cannot keep repeating the same mantra for 18yrs.
For many years there was no further disclosure than what we knew. Only when evidence came forward was Jeremy able to examine it.
My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.
It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.
The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.
Your theory depends on too many 'what if's' AA bu at the heart of it, if Bamber's claim that Nevill was a Mason and there is no evidence that he was.
It appears Bamber’s public innocence fraud campaign didn’t start until around the time he discarded AA ?
It appears Bamber’s public innocence fraud campaign didn’t start until around the time he discarded AA ?
My theory and research is based only on what we knew before all these disclosures, which I refer to as smoke and mirrors.
It was a very simple plan and it fits in with everything that has been posted regarding the early days.
He didn't disguard me!!
It doesn't matter at all how far fetched my theory is... Its of no consequence to Jeremy and his CT.
We all have our views based upon our own knowledge. My knowledge just happens to be different to all of yours.
I do not believe that either Jeremy or Sheila did the shootings... The whole family are innocent victims of a professional hit and the only surviving member is locked away for 35 yrs.... With no light at the end of the tunnel.
It's a f..kin disgrace. Seriously.
As for the CT.... wtf!!
The evidence disclosed later has only muddied the waters, has caused confusion and exposed this cover up due to failings and dishonesty.
LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993
This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.
How do you feel now about your conviction ?
“I still can’t understand why I was convicted. It seems incredible to me, eight years after it all happened, still fighting away. There’s so much they don’t want to reveal. So much that they say they didn’t do which would have established my innocence. Had I been arrested immediately and an investigation done, then the truth would have been written much more closely. But, as my dad always used to say to me when any injustice happened to me in my childhood: “don’t worry Jeremy, the truth always comes out in the wash.” I think now the people helping me have been able to put together a package which, the bottom line, as they say, is that it is unimaginable that I would have been convicted had this evidence been before the jury.”
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
The dirty protests were in Frankland in Durham so quite early on in his career.
How much trouble have you had from other inmates ?
“Um, pretty much none. Very little. I’ve obviously made one or two enemies over the years. I would say the majority of prisoners believe in me – after reading the paperwork, meeting me, quizzing me. The prison staff extend to me, personally, every facility that they can. Very friendly. It’s not the same in every jail, and not the same for every prisoner.”
Have you had any physical assaults ?
“One in Franklin – from a guard, not a prisoner. It was a Control and Restraint technique. I smashed up my cell and went on a shit protest. It was to do with my case – a daft protest really when I look back at it. I asked for it. Apart from that, in all these years, I’ve never been touched.”
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
With close friends and family members who are Masons, I can't accept your denigration of them. We all know that there are rotten apples in every barrel/walk of life. NO organization is free of them. I don't accept there are more within Masons' ranks than in any other. "Old boys" networks are found everywhere. We all enjoy "mates' rates". I see nothing wrong with putting in a good word/having a good word put in. It's what happens in ALL 'clubs'. People point others in the right direction. Having said all of that, where is the proof, other than from Jeremy's mouth, that Nevill was ever a member of that organization you claim to be behind the murders?
Based on that last statement you should start a Campaign..
'Julie Mugford is Innocent' @)(++(*
Essex police failings yet again.
https://youtu.be/BP5lS_zfEcc
And who was he talking to when this happened?
“The murderer Jeremy Bamber, who is in the 18th year of a life sentence for killing five members of his family, is recovering from a knife attack by a fellow inmate at a high security prison.
The 43-year-old prisoner, who was described as "evil beyond belief" by the judge at his trial in 1986, was treated at York district hospital for throat cuts after the incident at Full Sutton jail, near the city.
It is understood that Bamber was "jumped" from behind while talking to a woman friend on a permitted call from the prison
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jun/01/prisonsandprobation.society
And did the women friend ‘tip off’ the media?
Go and do some proper research!
It's all online but not in plain sight.
One has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who, what accusations have been made against them and take it from there.
See how far you get before you see another cover up. It's a pattern.... Its been played for decades and prominent people are bought as a result. Look at the decision then made by these prominent people...ask yourself if that goes against the grain from how they normally reacted etc.
The rabbit hole runs very deep.
I still however, cannot finger one person. Again I have no proof. But it certainly fits in with everything that Jeremy has ever told me when I questioned him or we discussed things.
My research has brought me to this conclusion.. Nothing more.
Was this you Aunt Agatha ?
If you knew Bamber for 18 years from 1990 - this incident occurred in 2004
I have Never spoken to media or anyone writing a book. I've never replied to requests on here or the blue.
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.
Jeremy has no idea of any of my views, of my posting on here etc. This is my own belief of what could possibly have happened that fatal evening,.
It doesn't matter at all how far fetched my theory is... Its of no consequence to Jeremy and his CT.
We all have our views based upon our own knowledge. My knowledge just happens to be different to all of yours.
I do not believe that either Jeremy or Sheila did the shootings... The whole family are innocent victims of a professional hit and the only surviving member is locked away for 35 yrs.... With no light at the end of the tunnel.
It's a f..kin disgrace. Seriously.
As for the CT.... wtf!!
It doesn't take much working out. The farmhouse appeared locked up and all the victims were inside. Only Jeremy Bamber knew how to sneak in and out undetected. Only Jeremy Bamber knew how to shoot and fast load the murder weapon. Only Jeremy Bamber had the physical presence to overpower Nevill Bamber. Only Jeremy Bamber had everything to gain from murdering them all. Only Jeremy Bamber had no alibi.
Have I missed anything?
I'm sorry Agatha but professional hitmen draw the line at murdering children.
What if it wasn't Jeremy?
Haha. And you'd know that how?
I'm sorry Agatha but professional hitmen draw the line at murdering children. As for conspiracy theories and cover-ups, I think you've been reading too much from Icke.
If he arranged for someone to do it, this being extremely unlikely of course, he would still be guilty.
We went to war on fake documents killing millions of men, women and children.
Your comment is absurd!
https://youtu.be/svYyl2vIdxQ
Judging by the way in which he managed to keep AA separate to 'protect' her, there could have been several others he was 'protecting' in the same way. How would any of them have ever known?
Wasting my time. Jeremy never arranged the hit!
If so then he himself is a cold blooded killer. Do you ever regret allowing such a person to be godfather to your own children?
Lets face it, he doesn't try to disavow any of his supporters of other erroneous beliefs ie; rabbits blood in silencer, Nevills call to the police, figure in the window etc..
Bombing schools from the air is irrelevant.
You didn't liste to the video.
These people have no conscience. They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power.
Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.
One has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who
You didn't liste to the video.
These people have no conscience. They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power.
Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.
LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993
This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.
What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic). Quite why she started to suffer from schizophrenia, I don’t understand. She suffered from delusions, which made her very distant. It’s very hard when someone you know so well changes so radically. Really quite devastating to see someone suffering so much anxiety and not knowing what to do – mostly not having the maturity to deal with that. It makes me very sad now, that none of us – me, my family, the relatives – had any understanding about what to do.”
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
One has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who, what accusations have been made against them and take it from there.
You didn't liste to the video.
These people have no conscience. They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power.
Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.
In the 18 years you and Bamber were in contact did he ever mention he was allegedly “sexually molested” when he was 11 years old?
”Close pal, Brett Collins, said: ”When Jeremy was 11 he was sexually molested by older boys and that deeply affected him."
Bamber left school with no qualifications but his father still financed a trip to Australia and New Zealand and a scuba diving course.
There have been claims while he was there he broke into a jewellery store and stole an expensive watch, which he then gave to a girlfriend back in the UK.“
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/sex-abuse-serial-killer-jeremy-21153790
Why did Bamber refer to his sister as ‘narcissitical’ ?
First I must say I find Aunt Agatha a joy to debate with, she is very honest, holds to her personal beliefs firmly and I respect that. I apologise to her if my replies were too direct.Neither Bamber or any supposed accomplish is going to fess up,it makes sense though.
The evidence collected by police doesn't exclude there being an accomplice or third party involved in the murders but if there was, they would have to have had Jeremy Bamber's full cooperation to do so.
For all we know, Jeremy Bamber entered the farmhouse and let someone in and between them they carried out their dire deeds. In fact, that would explain one mystery and that is where was Sheila when June and Nevill were being beaten and murdered? It would take an accomplice to restrain Sheila while the other killer ran amok in the farmhouse.
Was the story Jeremy Bamber told Julie Mugford about the hitman a total fabrication? Possibly not. Maybe there was some truth in that story after all but Bamber changed the name so as to get Mugford off his back.
First I must say I find Aunt Agatha a joy to debate with, she is very honest, holds to her personal beliefs firmly and I respect that. I apologise to her if my replies were too direct.
The evidence collected by police doesn't exclude there being an accomplice or third party involved in the murders but if there was, they would have to have had Jeremy Bamber's full cooperation to do so.
For all we know, Jeremy Bamber entered the farmhouse and let someone in and between them they carried out their dire deeds. In fact, that would explain one mystery and that is where was Sheila when June and Nevill were being beaten and murdered? It would take an accomplice to restrain Sheila while the other killer ran amok in the farmhouse.
Was the story Jeremy Bamber told Julie Mugford about the hitman a total fabrication? Possibly not. Maybe there was some truth in that story after all but Bamber changed the name so as to get Mugford off his back.
Neither Bamber or any supposed accomplish is going to fess up,it makes sense though.
First I must say I find Aunt Agatha a joy to debate with, she is very honest, holds to her personal beliefs firmly and I respect that. I apologise to her if my replies were too direct.
The evidence collected by police doesn't exclude there being an accomplice or third party involved in the murders but if there was, they would have to have had Jeremy Bamber's full cooperation to do so.
For all we know, Jeremy Bamber entered the farmhouse and let someone in and between them they carried out their dire deeds. In fact, that would explain one mystery and that is where was Sheila when June and Nevill were being beaten and murdered? It would take an accomplice to restrain Sheila while the other killer ran amok in the farmhouse.
Was the story Jeremy Bamber told Julie Mugford about the hitman a total fabrication? Possibly not. Maybe there was some truth in that story after all but Bamber changed the name so as to get Mugford off his back. Was the name Matthew McDonald the first name that came to him so he chose to put her off the scent by claiming that it was McDonald and not he that pulled the trigger?
These are the questions that only Jeremy Bamber knows the answers to.
I've never fully rejected this theory, although I doubt even a mercenary would murder children.
I think Bamber told JM a version of the facts, perhaps in his hubris he had to boast to someone and he thought she would never say anything.
However, Auntie A's theory re Nevill being privy to corruption in the highest positions of High Masonry only works if Nevill was a Mason, and there's nothing to suggest that he was or ever had been. I do wonder if this may have more to do with her personal conspiracy theories, than Jeremy Bamber per se?
You know nothing about freemasonry.
I'm limited in what I can share on here, the best examples of what goes on in the Higher Ranks have been removed due to restrictions on free speech and censorship.
https://youtu.be/SACHXYQgHPE
How would/could you know that I know nothing about the Freemasons?
My ex-husband was a mason, my late partner was a Master Mason, and by coincidence my later partner is also a mason. I’ve been to many, many Ladies Nights; I’ve read their book of verse (just some, which is absolutely beautiful), and for you to say I know nothing about it makes you look bonkers.
It’s an organisation not dissimilar to a private Gentleman's Club, where they meet up at their lodges and after going through their third degree (by invitation only) they are initiated. The reason most members are businessmen, high ranking police, royalty etc, is that they only invite respectable people of good character and as they all have to contribute money and host events (which are costly) they have to be comfortably off. They amass thousands of pounds for different charities and hospitals, and do more good than you’d ever know.
It’s true that they make contacts which can be beneficial to them in business, and they all have each other’s support, but everything they do is legal and IF one ever did do something wrong the SHAME put upon them would be huge. They’d be thrown out immediately, and besides losing every privilege they would be forever walking with their heads bowed in shame.
Women can actually become Masons too .They have their own separate lodges .
I can tell by your thinking that you’ve developed this fairytale in your head hoping Jeremy was set-up by the Masons, but as you’ve searched for nonsense on the internet about the Freemasons you’re completely clueless and believe any old rubbish ignorant people put up. That’s probably why the sly sneaky JB got shot of you — he knew you were full of fantasies too and of no use to him. He couldn’t have you speaking on his behalf because people would have laughed their heads off. I dare say you irritated him with your bizarre ideas and you’re very lucky he did cease contact with you, otherwise he may have caused you to do things you’d later bitterly regret.
You’re living in cloud cuckoo land.
How would/could you know that I know nothing about the Freemasons?
My ex-husband was a mason, my late partner was a Master Mason, and by coincidence my later partner is also a mason. I’ve been to many, many Ladies Nights; I’ve read their book of verse (just some, which is absolutely beautiful), and for you to say I know nothing about it makes you look bonkers.
It’s an organisation not dissimilar to a private Gentleman's Club, where they meet up at their lodges and after going through their third degree (by invitation only) they are initiated. The reason most members are businessmen, high ranking police, royalty etc, is that they only invite respectable people of good character and as they all have to contribute money and host events (which are costly) they have to be comfortably off. They amass thousands of pounds for different charities and hospitals, and do more good than you’d ever know.
It’s true that they make contacts which can be beneficial to them in business, and they all have each other’s support, but everything they do is legal and IF one ever did do something wrong the SHAME put upon them would be huge. They’d be thrown out immediately, and besides losing every privilege they would be forever walking with their heads bowed in shame.
Women can actually become Masons too .They have their own separate lodges .
I can tell by your thinking that you’ve developed this fairytale in your head hoping Jeremy was set-up by the Masons, but as you’ve searched for nonsense on the internet about the Freemasons you’re completely clueless and believe any old rubbish ignorant people put up.
I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree. Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.
Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.
I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult. We are talking the worst of the worst!
So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.
https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI
I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree. Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.
Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.
I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult. We are talking the worst of the worst!
So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.
https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI
In addition, Chelmsford is a hotbed of satanic freemasonry.
Taking into account what I've just shared I amm NOT stating or suggesting or implying that neville was involved in any of this however one could understand why his wife was so religious. She possibly knew what was going on, or heard about it and she did all she could to protect herself and her family. Neville would have been protected.
So my question again is.. What if Neville knew something and had evidence. These masons are not to be messed with. Neville was probably a liability.
Dont forget the phone call that neville received before the shootings. The phone call that supposedly frightened him.
Was he threatened?
In addition, Chelmsford is a hotbed of satanic freemasonry.
Taking into account what I've just shared I amm NOT stating or suggesting or implying that neville was involved in any of this however one could understand why his wife was so religious. She possibly knew what was going on, or heard about it and she did all she could to protect herself and her family. Neville would have been protected.
So my question again is.. What if Neville knew something and had evidence. These masons are not to be messed with. Neville was probably a liability.
Dont forget the phone call that neville received before the shootings. The phone call that supposedly frightened him.
Was he threatened?
In addition, Chelmsford is a hotbed of satanic freemasonry.
As there's no proof of Nevill ever having been involved in Masonry, there's no reason why he should have been.
Can you remember when you called me about a case posted on Youtube about satanic child abuse and asked me to post it on the blue forum? That followed a similar theme but having watched the video you were concerned about, I was concerned that it was a hoax - it turned out to be a hoax and the mother of the children in question had coached them in order to get back at her husband.
I don't believe that Chelmsford is a hotbed for. satanic freemasonry - I am not sure where you are getting your info from but I would sincerely question it as I did with the instance above as you were completely convinced by that at the time.
Hi Caroline, that was here in Hampstead. It was not a hoax!
It was covered up but I'm aware of a few people pushing that still and have lots of evidence on dear man.
How are you suggesting that Nevill was involved at any level?
Maybe he did not participate. Maybe he paid his dues and did not actively take part... I don't know!!
All I'm asking is - what if he knew something?
What if he somehow became aware of this regarding one particular member, probably a recognised mp.
Lord Janner (a suspected paedophile, was Home Secretary at the time of the police operation.
I've got more names but dare not mention on here, however one did have charges against him and that politician Vaz tried to cover it up... And we know what Vaz is into!!
Please read my previous post.
I did not say he was... I stated I wasn't even suggesting or implying he was.
You do have to read the posts properly!
So your entire thesis actually rests on nothing more than "What if....". As I've said, there's no evidence, AT ALL, of Nevill ever having been a Mason. Masonry isn't one of those organizations to which members pay subs but don't participate, anymore than it's possible for Vaz and Nevill's paths to have crossed.
I think you need to go back and read very carefully and slowly
it fits in with everything Jeremy stated.
Hi Caroline, that was here in Hampstead. It was not a hoax!
It was covered up but I'm aware of a few people pushing that still and have lots of evidence on dear man.
Hi AA - it was indeed a hoax, the woman coached her kids to get back at her husband
This is the case in question.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32357195
As stated over the last few days, this is ONLY MY Theory of what took place that night.
It is based on what if's for sure?
I'm asking that you have an open mind and see how this plays out.
For me, looking at the outside events only, it fits in with everything Jeremy stated.
Sure, I could be wrong... I'm trying to debate it with you... Not convince you!
Auntie A, which is the most important issue for you? It appears to me that Jeremy Bamber, whom you believe is innocent, and pedophile parties involving High Masonry, and High just about everything else, are as polarized as it's possible for them to be. You seem to have fused them on the spurious and unfounded belief that Nevill was a Mason. Without that being fact, your claim doesn't hold water. The issues are entirely separate.
Then that's the end of it then!
Seems I don't need to try and debate this any longer.
Caroline, if you want to believe the MSM, whis is a freemason propaganda narration, then be my guest.
I prefer to ask questions and not take anything the TE-LIE-VISION throws at me.
It's brainwashing!!
Hi AA - it was indeed a hoax, the woman coached her kids to get back at her husband
This is the case in question.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32357195
Well, if your thesis rests solely on Nevill having been involved with something there's no proof of him ever having been, perhaps it's time for you to have a rethink, at least until you can place him somewhere which makes your thesis work.
No one has ever washed my brain, I don't believe everything I see or hear, I. do my own research which is why I believed Bamber innocent UNTIL I asked my own questions. This is what happened in this hoax about case. https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/crime-court/timeline-how-fantasy-hampstead-satanic-abuse-cult-allegations-came-to-be-online-1-4001668
The man in question is still receiving death threats for this baseless crime - it's basically the internet gone mad. He's the victim. Without evidence AA this man is being hounded because people refuse to let go of the 'no smoke' adage.
Never, have I stated neville was involved in anything!!
You make this stuff up as you go along April.
JM wasn't there she was in London.
JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB. I would suggest the only reason JM did is that DS Jones threatened to throw the book at her if she didn't cooperate. This was a young woman, just turned 21 yoa, who was holed up in a police training room for days on end prevented from having any contact with the outside world, not even a solicitor or her mother.
What on Earth are you talking about?!
Julie was his girlfriend on the night he murdered his family!
He phoned here, several times. She was brought down by the police. She stayed with him in Goldhanger; went to the funerals with him. Amsterdam.
Whatever are you on about???
As for suggesting DS Jones THREATENED Julie — SHE went to the police voluntarily.
Julie was never arrested!
Nor was she holed up! She was put in a safety house because they knew and feared Jeremy would come after her — which he tried to do.
How many MORE lies are you going to come out with in your desperate attempt to try and get this disgusting evil murderer an appeal? He must be laughing his head off at you, seeing how taken in you are by his insane lies!
And as for Angie, it seems she barely knew him that well so how could she say anything bad about him when he was wearing his “innocent mask? She was naive and gullible, obviously....she soon disappeared when he was found guilty! Why’s that do you think?
With close friends and family members who are Masons, I can't accept your denigration of them. We all know that there are rotten apples in every barrel/walk of life. NO organization is free of them. I don't accept there are more within Masons' ranks than in any other. "Old boys" networks are found everywhere. We all enjoy "mates' rates". I see nothing wrong with putting in a good word/having a good word put in. It's what happens in ALL 'clubs'. People point others in the right direction. Having said all of that, where is the proof, other than from Jeremy's mouth, that Nevill was ever a member of that organization you claim to be behind the murders?
I'm talking higher ranks... Not your friends April. We're talking 30 degree plus.
She was there at the end of the phone Holly.She knows what Bamber said and what he had been saying for 18 months.
The rest is pure hogwash. What would DS Jones have thrown the book at her for if she hadn't told him everything in the first place? How many other people did she confide in before going to the police, was it 5? Do you think that maybe something was on her mind that became increasingly difficult to deal with as the scales fell from her eyes?
I am biased when it comes to Julie though, she is utterly gorgeous in those pictures of her in 2002
I have to say, one of the most godawful human beings I have ever known is very high up in the Masons. He is old and ill now, probably with not long to go, and if he believes in all that heaven and hell stuff he must be absolutely sh*tting himself.
Hi AA, Jeremy told you that Nevill was a Mason and yet it isn't mentioned anywhere in his documented history. We know he was a magistrate and a church warden, that he was in the RAF and various other aspects of his life. However, no one at any time - not even CAL uncovered that he was in the Masons.
I think you're quite brave for posting your/his theory, you must have known it would lead to criticism and people would find it impossible to believe. But I have to say I can't buy it either. I think Bamber spun you a yarn and given your support of him in the early days, I think it shows his true character that he was prepared to believe others who he didn't know, rather then yourself who had gone out of your way to support him. He didn't deserve your loyalty then and he certainly doesn't deserve it now.
Yup, in the Mason's Arms every Friday night.
He has not permitted it. He doesn't know what I think.
He has not permitted it. He doesn't know what I think.
I'm stating 'nervous', I could be wrong. Maybe it was just disbelief. I don't know.
One thing I am certain of is that he has no idea of what's happening out here, who's involved and what secret societies they are linked to.
I wish!!
(You cheeky sod, Myster ?8)@)-) ).
I bet he does know that you're on here, Ags. Ermintrood and her herd will be keeping him posted.
Judging by the way in which he managed to keep AA separate to 'protect' her, there could have been several others he was 'protecting' in the same way. How would any of them have ever known?
Great point, April!
It fits so well!
He keeps all his supporters apart, except for his CT which he can’t...
Speaks volumes!
Totally agree, the freemasons are nothing more than an old boys network, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine...wink wink. They also provide funds to good causes and the elderly. AA has been reading too much crap on the internet imo.
I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree. Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.
Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.
I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult. We are talking the worst of the worst!
So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.
https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI
It doesn't matter at all how far fetched my theory is... Its of no consequence to Jeremy and his CT.
We all have our views based upon our own knowledge. My knowledge just happens to be different to all of yours.
I do not believe that either Jeremy or Sheila did the shootings... The whole family are innocent victims of a professional hit and the only surviving member is locked away for 35 yrs.... With no light at the end of the tunnel.
It's a f..kin disgrace. Seriously.
As for the CT.... wtf!!
Perhaps you should try thinking about what you say.
You didn't liste to the video.
These people have no conscience. They would sacrifice anything to retain their wealth and power.
Rose tinted glasses will keep you safe until you wake up.
It's strange how unpleasant people can become when convinced they're right. June Bamber bullied and dominated her daughter, accusing her of fornication and calling her names like "the Devil's child". It never occured to her that her opinions and behaviour could be wrong.
June was not alone in her beliefs of what was right and 'proper'. It's part of the human condition. Some find it easier than others to hold their hands up to it, but who, of us, likes being wrong?
That's no excuse for the things she said and did to her daughter. It's not about being right or wrong imo, it's about treating others with respect, even if they have different opinions.
Oh but I never said it was right. I said it was the human condition.
Your anger seems so unnecessary unless you have a personal involvement with the family? We can hear you're passionate about his guilt. Others are equally so about his innocence. There'd be nothing of interest about a forum on which everyone thought the same. Deep breaths might help.
Humans aren't all alike they experience and react to 'the human condition' differently. You only have to read internet forums to see that.
Common courtesy would be a start.
Humans aren't all alike they experience and react to 'the human condition' differently. You only have to read internet forums to see that.
Did I say they didn't? What I said was "June was not alone". The way June was is part of the human condition. Why are trying to make an argument of it?
Sorry, I got the impression you were excusing her behaviour.
As per usual your assertions are baseless.
Anyone can look through my post history and decide whether or not I've denigrated SC in the way you've asserted.
Sorry, I got the impression you were excusing her behaviour.
Good lord no. I was referring to the theory that Bamber hired a third party, told them how to get in the window and then make a call to him from WHF as related by Julie. Or the theory that JB and another carried the crime out together.
I'm afraid I don't take AA seriously at all. If some powerful elite wanted him bumped off, a farming or car accident would be much more likely than to stage a crime people would still be talking about 35 years later and AA doesn't explain why the gun was found on Sheila and not Jeremy in her scenario.
Still the most plausible explanation of JBs innocence I've heard though! @)(++(*
It shows a complete lack of maturity when someone resorts to making it personal because someone doesn't share their views whether it be this case or any other subject.
I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree. Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.
Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.
I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult. We are talking the worst of the worst!
So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.
https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI
I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree. Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.
Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.
I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult. We are talking the worst of the worst!
So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.
https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI
Many of the posts on this thread are totally unacceptable. The worst offenders can expect further action.
No! I never stated any of that!
It's misleading.
It shows desperation when one has to resort telling disgraceful lies about a victim of murder to try and make the perp look in a better light
You dint answer my question, Agatha?
I respect your views and opinions however I would strongly disagree. Lower masons are fine, just as you describe.
Then you get to 30 degree plus and this is a whole different scenario.
I'm limited with what I can find on YouTube that I can post here however both young and old adults have stepped forward and have revealed what they have endured and witnessed at the hands of this satanic cult. We are talking the worst of the worst!
So, this video is informative, that's all. You're nit going to listen to anything too gruesome otherwise this guy would be behind bars.
https://youtu.be/mQ-O9_beNzI
AA, if Nevill was a FM, it would have been mentioned and there is nothing.
Appears Bamber discarded Poppy Ann Miller a few years ago
“I corresponded by letter and email with Jeremy Bamber for six years from 2011, he also telephoned me on a regular basis”
https://poppyannmiller.blogspot.com/2019/04/sample-from-my-book-jeremy-bamber-cui.html
Appears Bamber discarded Poppy Ann Miller a few years ago
“I corresponded by letter and email with Jeremy Bamber for six years from 2011, he also telephoned me on a regular basis”
I had a short conversation with Ms Miller once. I read some of her awful blog and then asked her if she had got a publisher yet.
Blocked.
Here is a short sample:
Sipping on my glass of red I wandered through the kitchen and out into my garden, admiring the success of my green-fingered efforts in such a restricted growing environment. Revelling in the surge of pleasure that the blackbirds had honoured my plot again and that their sheer perseverance in nest-building in the grapevine overhanging the pergola had once again produced a late brood.
By Poppy Ann Miller
“Now it might be that Julie Mugford, the relatives and Essex Police were subject to different motivations. Mugford - jealous, having discovered that Jeremy had been two-timing her, also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation.
The relatives? Possibly threatened with losing their financial status if Jeremy inherited the property - but Essex Police officers?
Poppy Ann Miller claims to be a ‘Psychodynamic counsellor’
Sounds to me Ms Miller has yet to explore the emotional and psychologically abusive relationship JM found herself in ?
No doubt ‘the relatives’ would also have been subjected to this type of behaviour from Bamber
If Jeremy Bamber was raised like his sister he would have had no experience of how to behave in a spontaneous loving relationship. Sheila told Colin Caffell that she was only allowed to play with her mother or sit on her father's knee at certain times of the day. It wasn't allowed at other times. June begged to have the twins at the farm, but left them in the care of a village girl while she went out and did other things. [ISOTRE by CC]
By Poppy Ann Miller
“Now it might be that Julie Mugford, the relatives and Essex Police were subject to different motivations. Mugford - jealous, having discovered that Jeremy had been two-timing her, also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation.
The relatives? Possibly threatened with losing their financial status if Jeremy inherited the property - but Essex Police officers?
”The Court of Appeal needs to acknowledge miscarriages of justice – and ensure that they don’t occur in the future”
(2018)
https://www.thejusticegap.com/the-court-of-appeal-needs-to-acknowledge-miscarriages-of-justice-and-ensure-that-they-dont-occur-in-the-future/
This statement by Poppy Ann Miller
“also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation“
suggests maybe subconsciously she knows Bamber is guilty
What reason would JM have to know anything about joint enterprise legislation ? What a bizarre statement to make
Lucky girl!! A student having to work to pay for university, being able to afford the flight to Canada at around 19 years of age!!!
Lucky girl!! A student having to work to pay for university, being able to afford the flight to Canada at around 19 years of age!!!
Lots of university students travel the world at that age
Which is fine when they can afford it, or have parents who can fund it. Julie had been at university since she left school and was needing to work to pay her way.
This statement by Poppy Ann Miller
“also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation“
suggests maybe subconsciously she knows Bamber is guilty
What reason would JM have to know anything about joint enterprise legislation ? What a bizarre statement to make
Which is fine when they can afford it, or have parents who can fund it. Julie had been at university since she left school and was needing to work to pay her way.
Did her parents help fund her trip to Canada - or had she saved up her wages?
Not sure what point you are trying to make April?
I posted
And you replied
I don’t follow?
Sorry Nicholas. My reply was a tad sarcastic. I've heard this Canadian drugs story on blue and I've always disputed it. I was questioning how she could have afforded the flight to/stay in Canada, basically when she was still in school. She was only just over 19 when she first met Jeremy so it must have been prior to then. I don't think she came from the sort of family who could afford such a trip and the only money she had was what she earned doing odd jobs.
Did her parents help fund her trip to Canada - or had she saved up her wages?
Not sure what point you are trying to make April?
I posted
And you replied
I don’t follow?
This statement by Poppy Ann Miller
“also possibly frightened of being implicated in that by telling Essex Police that Jeremy had been planning the killings for some time and had told her, ‘tonight is the night’, she could be charged under Joint Enterprise legislation“
suggests maybe subconsciously she knows Bamber is guilty
What reason would JM have to know anything about joint enterprise legislation ? What a bizarre statement to make
I don't remember reading anything about Julie visiting Canada, nor about the ludicrous accusation that she returned with any drugs. After the trial, redtop payout and graduation, yes Julie did emigrate but I'm not sure if that included a promised job placement there as well.
Her husband and his family all lived in Canada. They met somewhere other than whilst they were both on holiday. Married in a village about 4 miles from me, and went back to Canada. As Caroline said, it's probably all myth. It was pushed very hard on blue but at least we now know from whom it originated.
Sorry Nicholas. My reply was a tad sarcastic. I've heard this Canadian drugs story on blue and I've always disputed it. I was questioning how she could have afforded the flight to/stay in Canada, basically when she was still in school. She was only just over 19 when she first met Jeremy so it must have been prior to then. I don't think she came from the sort of family who could afford such a trip and the only money she had was what she earned doing odd jobs.
The is no evidence of a trip to Canada, think that might be a myth.
Her husband and his family all lived in Canada. They met somewhere other than whilst they were both on holiday. Married in a village about 4 miles from me, and went back to Canada. As Caroline said, it's probably all myth. It was pushed very hard on blue but at least we now know from whom it originated.
The is no evidence of a trip to Canada, think that might be a myth.
ChineseChelmsford Whispers...
The Jeremy Bamber forum (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php) has promoted so much utter balderdash over the years that it's undoubtedly a mammoth embarrassment to Bamber now.
Don’t suppose JM’s parents finances were relevant to Bamber’s murder trial
What ‘sort of family’ do you mean?
You would think so but doesn't seem to find his own CT embarrassing and he has recently recycled the old police fired the second shot conspiracy from blue.
I'm sure the CCRC await his sensible and "strong package" with uncontained excitement.
The trouble is, when some people passionately want something to be true, they're inclined to say things which appear to make it so.
Poppy Ann Miller does have a disclaimer at the foot of her blog, it reads:
“Disclaimer: the views expressed here and elsewhere by PoppyMeze Poppy Ann Miller represent its own passing opinions offered under protection of Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (the "Convention"), which has been incorporated into UK law by the Human Rights Act 1998. No allegations are made by PoppyMeze Poppy Ann Miller and/or therein implicit.
Oooh! That's a bit crafty, isn't it? She can come out with as much c**p as she feels like slinging, then write a disclaimer which says she hasn't made any allegations!!!
Her mum worked. I've no idea what her stepfather did, She had a brother. They were what I'd call an 'ordinary' family but I accept the word is as meaningful as "normal"!!! Let's say, they weren't in the same bracket as the Bambers.
Indeed. All these people seem to have decided that JB is innocent before they even looked at any evidence and then they apply the JB innocence filter to their perception of anything and everything.
I refuse to believe that they don't realise that at least some of the guff they are peddling is utter nonsense though.
8((()*/
Surely, one would have to look at some evidence, to "decide" JB is innocent?
Surely, one would have to look at some evidence, to "decide" JB is innocent?
Wasn’t me who suggested there was?
Thanks for clarifying though
I know, I was answering your query - it was said on the blue forum at some point and gets repeated on occasion.
Won’t make any difference if JM decides to take legal action
And it appears her behaviour dates back at least as far as 2011/12 ?
Suing her would only cause the Streisand effect anyway.
And I unwittingly repeated it - cheers for highlighting my error 8((()*/
Definitely not. Julie was born in North London, not far from where I grew up. Certainly an "ordinary" area, and it wasn't/isn't uncommon for families from that area to move out to Essex later.
Perhaps it originated from Poppy, I'm not sure but she does seem to get things confused.
There’s a thread here https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1022578334235062273 with Poppy Ann Miller
& Michelle Diskin Bates where she, MDB, again falsely claims
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@GrahameVincent1
@PoppyMeze
and 2 others
You’re right they can. However, this case is one I recall happening live on my TV. I listened as news reports spoke of someone pacing by the window with a rifle. Police would not storm the house because they might spook the person inside. JB was outside with police. Theres more!
9:24 PM · Jul 26, 2018·Twitter for iPad
The following didn’t get a single like or retweet
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
NEW Vlog: I read a heartfelt & emotional letter from #JeremyBamber to his parents https://youtu.be/ZsUyH-5t3S4
@channel5_tv
8:32 PM · Feb 29, 2016·Twitter Web Client
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/704403833749905408
If there is one thing that makes me doubt anyone's claims of innocence, it's an endorsement from MDB.
Barry George 'inexplicably' under MAPPA? *&^^&
"Pacing by the window with a rifle"? @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Which part of north London are you referring to, MrsWah?
As a Londoner myself I know that there’s some tatty parts of north London, but also some incredibly beautiful parts where properties cost millions. Highgate/Hampstead, for example. There’s also some very nice parts with tree-lined avenues, gorgeous Victorian/Edwardian/Georgian houses in less salubrious areas...in fact, even the tatty parts are expensive.
It’s irrelevant, anyway, as you don’t know what Julie’s financial circumstances were. You don’t know if she had savings; a small inheritance from one of her grandparents...you’ve not idea. You don’t know if she maxed out out her credit cards to travel...you’re making suppositions based on what you IMAGINE.
How do you know she didn’t have relatives in Canada? It isn’t the first country that springs to mind when students travel on a gap year...
Incidentally, Julie met her husband in 1990, in either England or Europe. After they married she moved with him to Canada as he was Canadian and they decided to settle there.🤷♀️
According to Carol Ann Lees book JM met her husband in Australia
Which part of north London are you referring to, MrsWah?
As a Londoner myself I know that there’s some tatty parts of north London, but also some incredibly beautiful parts where properties cost millions. Highgate/Hampstead, for example. There’s also some very nice parts with tree-lined avenues, gorgeous Victorian/Edwardian/Georgian houses in less salubrious areas...in fact, even the tatty parts are expensive.
It’s irrelevant, anyway, as you don’t know what Julie’s financial circumstances were. You don’t know if she had savings; a small inheritance from one of her grandparents...you’ve not idea. You don’t know if she maxed out out her credit cards to travel...you’re making suppositions based on what you IMAGINE.
How do you know she didn’t have relatives in Canada? It isn’t the first country that springs to mind when students travel on a gap year...
Incidentally, Julie met her husband in 1990, in either England or Europe. After they married she moved with him to Canada as he was Canadian and they decided to settle there.🤷♀️
I never claimed to know anything about Julie's financial circumstances as an adult. I was merely replying to another poster having suggested that her family were not as wealthy as the Bambers!
Yes, you did reply to another poster and you wrote:
“Definitely not. Julie was born in North London, not far from where I grew up. Certainly an "ordinary" area, and it wasn't/isn't uncommon for families from that area to move out to Essex later.”
So your inference was that because Sheila was brought up in an “ordinary” area near you, she couldn’t have travelled to Canada...
As you rightly now say, you didn’t know Julie’s finances, so where she brought up isn’t significant...
In any event, it seems this trip to Canada may have been a rumour started by someone who lacks knowledge, or wanted to create a fairy story...
No, my inference was NOT that she couldn't have travelled to Canada. I wasn't even thinking about her travelling to Canada (which, as far as I know, she didn't do anyway. ).
BTW, I think you mean Julie, not Sheila!
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
What does Virginia Greaves statement say exactly?
Presumably CAL has taken,
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window‘
from VG’s WS statement but wouldn’t this have alarmed VG? Did she tell her sister Anji ? And if so what did Anji’s WS statement say ?
Or did Anji Greaves refuse to give police a WS?
That Julie was crackers as well?
Bamber most definitely appears to have wanted to give Virginia or Anji or both that impression doesn’t he
There’s no evidence however that JM did this
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
That Julie was crackers as well?
Surely, one would have to look at some evidence, to "decide" JB is innocent?
*&^^&
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Big shout out on #InternationalWomensDay2020 to all the female warriors fighting for truth & justice. Mothers, sisters, wives, partners & friends who all too often get vilified by misogynistic and stereotypical attitudes of women as justice campaigners #Solidarity
12:38 PM · Mar 8, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1236632469689991168
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
@jbcampaignltd
#JeremyBamber Campaign Patron
@Michelle_Diskin
- Miscarriage of Justice victims have complex needs and need considerable support. Why was Barry George inexplicably put under a MAPPA order on release? #StandingAgainstInjustice
@IoJustice
#CardiffIOJ2019
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1109432396393385990
Michelle Dustin writes remarkably like Holly — and also has a “Pete”.Your powers of deduction know no beginning.
We all have a “Pete” Dont we? 😌
I suppose if you’ve been sucked in by a psycho for two years it could send you crackers...until you see th light
As for Julie pitting her hand through the window — who said that?
Bamber most definitely appears to have wanted to give Virginia or Anji or both that impression doesn’t he
There’s no evidence however that JM did this
I suppose if you’ve been sucked in by a psycho for two years it could send you crackers...until you see th light
As for Julie pitting her hand through the window — who said that?
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
Here’s an expert:
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
As if...
I don’t believe JM “put her wrists through the window” as Bamber’s meant to have claimed to VirginiaNo mention of any rush to casualty for Julie's hand to be stitched up either.
It’s obvious Bamber was by this point creating doubt in the minds of all those around him regarding JM
It’s what people like him do
No mention of any rush to casualty for Julie's hand to be stitched up either.
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
This is getting ridiculous. Exactly who was he cheating on who with?
According to Anji Greaves interview in the Sun newspaper - which was published the day after Bamber was found guilty of murdering his family in October 1986 - she (Anji) claimed Bamber went to her flat in Kensington 2 days after the funerals.
She claimed Bamber made a pass at her on her sofa and they started kissing
In the same article she also claimed JM was ‘scorned’ and went to the police because of her not her sister Virginia.
Suspect it was Bamber who gave Anji Greaves the impression JM was scorned - as opposed to him being the scorned one
Bamber was most probably raging because JM did what she did
Now I am really confused.
The news article stated;
“But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also lead to her downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
And she went to the police to tell them how Bamber wiped out his family so he could inherit a £600,000 fortune
According to Anji Greaves interview in the Sun newspaper - which was published the day after Bamber was found guilty of murdering his family in October 1986 - she (Anji) claimed Bamber went to her flat in Kensington 2 days after the funerals.
She claimed Bamber made a pass at her on her sofa and they started kissing
In the same article she also claimed JM was ‘scorned’ and went to the police because of her not her sister Virginia.
Suspect it was Bamber who gave Anji Greaves the impression JM was scorned - as opposed to him being the scorned one
Bamber was most probably raging because JM did what she did
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?
The news article stated;
“But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also lead to her downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
And she went to the police to tell them how Bamber wiped out his family so he could inherit a £600,000 fortune
How did it lead to whose downfall? Is that Anji, Virginia or Julie?
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?
Anji Greaves had waited for the verdict in a hotel not far from Chelmsford with two friends and a journalist. Her room was decorated with ‘Welcome Home, Jeremy!’ banners, and she wore her glitziest outfit, with a bag packed; the journalist intended to write Jeremy’s story when he was acquitted and then hustle the couple off on holiday. But when the television news delivered the outcome, Anji walked out in a daze, narrowly avoiding being run over. She told the journalist: ‘I feel so much loyalty for Jeremy but I do not know if I can bring myself to go on visiting now. It could be a life sentence for both of us.’
It can be seen as confusing Eleanor because the false narrative runs so deep
And don’t suppose DI Miller meant to make things worse by claiming during the ‘crimes that shook Britain’ doc that JM was a jilted lover or whatever it is he said but it appears to me JM went to the police because she started to recognise she’d been duped
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?
JM was a victim of abuse
From Bamber's CT website:
“Thursday 15 August 1985 – Nevertheless, whatever rift occurred between Julie and Liz, all seemed well on the face of it during the summer of 1985. The evening before the funerals, Liz stayed the night at Jeremy’s cottage in Goldhanger. Julie and Brett Collins were also at Jeremy’s cottage and in her statement dated 23rd of September 1985 she stated: “I can say that on Thursday, the 15th August 1985, Liz Rimmington stayed overnight at Goldhanger. That evening she was left alone downstairs with Jeremy after Brett and I had gone to bed respectively.” It is possible that Julie suspected and feared that Liz and Jeremy once again had sex when she left them alone. Did this add to Julie’s existing anxieties about Jeremy’s unfaithfulness?
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk
*&^^&
Who wrote all this nonsense - Trudi Benjamin ?
From here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk
Sunday 1 September 1985
“Is it possible that now Julie had been dumped she was worried that Jeremy and Liz would rekindle their affair and start dating? Could it be likely that Julie wanted to make sure that Liz would not be interested in a relationship with Jeremy and that’s why she made up the story about him ordering a hit man to commit the murders? And was it the fact that her allegations were an invention that stopped Julie from approaching the police, even when she was advised to?
*&^^&
Liz Rimmington who also had sex with Bamber in 1984 whilst JM was on holiday in France
Was it not Julie's female flatmate who initially contacted the police?
MD and MW sold the wine bar and bought Sloppy Joes
Saturday 7 September 1985 – In her 8th of September statement Liz says that she persuaded Julie to talk to Malcolm Waters, Liz’s ex-boyfriend, to get some advice. She said: “We arrived at Malcolm's house about 7.30 p.m. and eventually Julie told Malcolm what she had told me[7]. He then told her the same thing that I had told her about informing the police. She eventually agreed to do this.”
“As I didn’t know Julie I started to question her about whether she was saying those things because of her split with Jeremy and I tried to ascertain from her if Jeremy had told her anything which only the murderer would know or if there was anything she had not read in the papers.”
Did Malcolm Waters ever admit to having been duped by Bamber & did he know his ex Liz Rimmington had had sex with Bamber ?
No idea how Bamber’s CT came to these conclusions
“Saturday 7 September 1985 DS Stan Jones was contacted from Malcolm Waters’ home by telephone as recorded in Jones’ pocket notebook and arrangements were made to collect the two girls from Colchester to take them to the police station for questioning.[8] Clearly Julie Mugford did not ‘come forward offering information’ as she was pushed by Liz and Malcolm, and it is highly likely that the phone call to police was made by Malcolm from his home, probably against Julie’s wishes. The hit man story that Julie had made up to poison Liz against Jeremy had spiralled out of control and became the cornerstone of the prosecution case against Jeremy Bamber.
Malcolm Waters: “As I didn’t know Julie I started to question her about whether she was saying those things because of her split with Jeremy and I tried to ascertain from her if Jeremy had told her anything which only the murderer would know or if there was anything she had not read in the papers.
Wasn’t Malcolm Waters the owner of Sloppy Joes where Liz Rimmimgton was the manageress; where Bamber had also worked ?
Was he also the owner of the Frog and Bean wine bar ?
“Malcolm told the Star in 1986 that Jeremy was ‘a Walter Mitty type. He dreams up situations and convinces himself it’s true. At certain periods he was very much a loner.’ He sensed that Jeremy ‘was easily led and susceptible to others’ and ‘always looking for affection, especially from girls.’
(From ‘The Murder at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=malcolm+waters+colchester&source=bl&ots=jQH-JZyewW&sig=ACfU3U30rayKNacZiDjpUq3KqVMQKnzlsQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcvt6FmqnpAhWPiFwKHawFAwgQ6AEwAnoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=malcolm%20waters%20colchester&f=false)
“Malcolm told the Star in 1986 that Jeremy was ‘a Walter Mitty type. He dreams up situations and convinces himself it’s true. At certain periods he was very much a loner.’ He sensed that Jeremy ‘was easily led and susceptible to others’ and ‘always looking for affection, especially from girls.’
(From ‘The Murder at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=malcolm+waters+colchester&source=bl&ots=jQH-JZyewW&sig=ACfU3U30rayKNacZiDjpUq3KqVMQKnzlsQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcvt6FmqnpAhWPiFwKHawFAwgQ6AEwAnoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=malcolm%20waters%20colchester&f=false)
From here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk
Suspect Bamber was looking for his next victim
Promiscuous.
Who wrote this rubbish ?
Who wrote this rubbish ?
Julie didn't know that Liz slept with Jeremy so whoever did write it, got it wrong.
I honestly do believe, based on my early conversations with Jeremy, before the rest of the info was given to us, purely as a distraction, that thus was a prefessiinal job done made to look like Jeremy did it.
I cannot post anything else on this subject on here regarding the case, it's not right.
You stated the mother coached the children. It was a hoax.
Here is her polygraph. She passed!!
https://youtu.be/IpvucxGN3MM
more from Bamber’s website;
“Tuesday 27 August 1985 – In her evidence dated the 8th and 9th of September 1985 Julie claimed that upon her return to Lewisham she went to a pizza restaurant with Sue Battersby, her flat mate and chequebook fraud accomplice, where she told Sue about Jeremy’s involvement in the murders. However, this apparent conversation does not appear in any of Sue’s witness evidence, which raises suspicion that it ever took place at all. Julie had been staying at Jeremy’s cottage in Goldhanger, but because Brett Collins was always, there she moved back to her accommodation in Lewisham on this date. Julie told Essex police that she suspected Jeremy was having a sexual relationship with Brett. [3]
Bamber was having sex with Anji Greaves because she told the nation via her interview with the Sun newspaper
Did Anji Greaves ever suspect Bamber of having sex with Brett Collins ?
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd
And there appears to have been a new appointment of a Thomas Walker on 17th March 2020https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history
Bamber’s CT website states something about JM & LR and a trip to Malta ?
‘Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.
Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd
And there appears to have been a new appointment of a Thomas Walker on 17th March 2020https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history
Along with the many other lies and defamatory statements Bamber’s CT website states something about JM & LR and a trip to Malta ?
‘Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.
Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false
Was Anji Greaves aware of the above?
Aunt Agatha appears to know all the evidence points to Bamber
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5009.msg214121.html#msg214121
Aunt A:
"I was not going to comment further however may I add at this point, Jeremy has NEVER had any problems in asking for money from those who he thinks has it, nor does he have a problem receiving it.
If one reads Daisy's post again she mentions 'lies'.....she would only know he was lying if she had asked questions.....and she believed or knew he was lying to her. I am also aware of this.
Secondly, maybe because she again asked questions as to where the money was going...what forensics etc.
When Daisy also used the word 'generous' in her post....she means a little more than would be expected on a monthly basis going into his allowance. This allowed him to buy stationary, christmas/birthday cards, make phone calls, send out documents recorded delivery etc. Daisy never asked where the money went, however, it would have helped cover these costs on a monthly basis.....along with contributions from others of course.
Have not spoken with her and I would not ask her directly so I cannot confirm the above as they are only my thoughts......but pride and money.........where Jeremy is concerned I would not use them in the same sentence if you know what I mean.
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign LtdJeremy Bamber Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
Matthew McDonald
Julie Mugford’s ficticious account of the hit man candidly shows how she was prepared to make up stories to #JeremyBamber’s detriment and in the wake of this further implicating another innocent man.
#WhiteHouseFarm
https://jeremybamber.org/matthew-mcdonald/
7:08 PM · Apr 2, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1245775008460419072
*&^^&
Jeremy Bamber Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
Matthew McDonald
Julie Mugford’s ficticious account of the hit man candidly shows how she was prepared to make up stories to #JeremyBamber’s detriment and in the wake of this further implicating another innocent man.
#WhiteHouseFarm
https://jeremybamber.org/matthew-mcdonald/
7:08 PM · Apr 2, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1245775008460419072
*&^^&
The audios on the JB Campaign ltd website also contain slander
“Libel and slander both involve a statement being ‘published’, or communicated, to at least one other person, where that statement damages the person’s reputation. The primary difference between the two is the degree of permanence with which the statement is published.If the statement is made with a degree of permanence, this may be libel. Slander, on the other hand, is characterised by its impermanence, or transience.Generally, the distinction will be between oral and written statements, the former generally being slander and the latter libel. Slander, may, however, actually be libel if the oral statement is recorded, for example on tape or CD.
https://www.contactlaw.co.uk/-/867
What’s David on about here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10256.msg479314.html#msg479314
“It seems to me that Newby has deleted posts on his website endorsing the imaginary 999 call from Nevil.
At least he is getting in the right direction.
Does Mark Newby have a website?
What is David suggesting has been removed?
Is this to do with current legal proceedings ?
Are JB Campaign Ltd allowed to obtain finance ie fundraising via inaccurate information ?
J B Campaign Ltd
Company No 09883616 Incorporated 23rd November 2015
Directors Patrick and Trudi Benjamin
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/09883616/J-B-CAMPAIGN-LTD/directors-secretaries
(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1450295412170/directors-and-management-team/Trudi%20Benjamin%202.jpg?height=320&width=247)
I am very pleased to announce the launch of The JB Campaign Limited, which is a ‘Not For Profit’ Private Limited Company. Having thought long and hard about the campaign to keep Jeremy’s case in the public domain and the issues that need resolving to get traction on an Appeal, the only conclusion was that we needed to be able to raise money. Supporters often ask how they can make donations but in order to do this effectively and legitimately the decision was made by the campaign team to set up The Jeremy Bamber Campaign as a legal entity.
Our aim is to raise funds towards any legal or forensic costs not currently covered Pro Bono. There will be an opportunity for people to give cash using a donate button on the website, we will be offering opportunities for appropriate advertising, along with a range of merchandise. Other exciting projects are in the planning process and will be announced in due course.
I am very proud, alongside my husband Pat Benjamin, to be a Director of the organisation and we are delighted to be working with the Campaign Management Team to maintain a high standard of business and accounting practices. In accordance, with requirements by Companies House, all monies will be accounted for and annual accounts will be filed. The Directors and Management Team give their time and expertise for free.
The decision to generate revenue in this way was taken partly because of the denigration of legal aid and the funding crisis for prisoners such as Jeremy but also because of the outrage we feel at the continued wrongful conviction and 30-year loss of liberty of an innocent man. Our hope is that campaigners and supporters, who feel as we do, will give generously to help Jeremy gain the freedom he so richly deserves.
Please look at the “Management Team” (http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/directors-and-management-team) to find out more about who we are and the 'Operations' page to find out how we work.
Thank you.
Trudi Benjamin
Managing Director/Spokesperson
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jb-campaign-ltd-and-directors
This organisation does not operate or support www.jeremybamberforum.co.uk and we nor Jeremy have any association with, or control over it.
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/about
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd
And there appears to have been a new appointment of a Thomas Walker on 17th March 2020https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history
Is Philip Walker here https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2019/01/annual-statement-with-trudi-benjamin.html (Photo of Trudi Benjamin, Director; Philip Walker, Communications; Yvonne Hartley, Forensic Liaison; Dr Dennis Eady, Patron.)
linked to Thomas Walker ?
We have continued to work with documentary makers, but despite a growing interest in Jeremy’s case by producers, there has been a lack of response from broadcasters. No less than 19 different production companies, all making approaches to different mainstream broadcasters and streaming channels, have approached the case in a number of different ways. One producer even received development funding in 2017, but the head of documentaries was changed, and he pulled the plug at the last minute. This is highly frustrating and of course extremely time consuming, but there are two documentary makers who have persisted in sticking with the case and pursuing our work, and we hope to have more success in early 2019
”Here’s an update on the campaign work in 2018.
In the meantime we have also continued engagement with journalists and human rights campaigners who have followed the case for sometime. Again attempts at news articles are also met with limited success despite the research being carried out and access to evidence. Regardless of these setbacks we continue to make approaches to media outlets on a frequent basis and keep Jeremy’s profile high on social media. We were very pleased with the Guardian’s recent article on the CPS’s receipt of a new forensic report opening up key concerns about the evidence, and Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone reported this. This has helped to create more transparency around the actions of the CPS, which cannot go on in secret: the CPS must be held accountable for non-disclosure.
Sept 2018”In May this year, Bamber’s lawyer Mark Newby received a letter from Frank Ferguson, head of special crimes at the CPS. He had written to the prosecutors’ office on the issue of two silencers being examined in the case but the jury only being told about one.July 2019
Although Ferguson stated “there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”, he added: “Any evidence that suggests that there was or may have been another silencer for the rifle would raise the possibility that the other silencer was used during the shooting and not the one alleged by the prosecution.
“Such a possibility would significantly undermine the case against JB [Jeremy Bamber] and any material supporting such a possibility would plainly be material which casts doubt on the safety of the conviction.”
”The High Court has expressed concern about how much care the Crown Prosecution Service takes in reviewing decisions after intervening in what judges called a 'troubling case'.
Lady Justice Nicola Davies and Mrs Justice Farbey quashed the decision of a reviewing lawyer made in October not to prosecute a police officer for causing death by dangerous driving and/or causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving following a pursuit in 2016.
“The judgment, handed down last week, states that the review decision was made by barrister Frank Ferguson, head of special crime, deputy head of the special crime and counter terrorism division.
“For the reasons given above we find that the reviewing lawyer did not bring to his task that same care, thoroughness and detail. We are conscious that a broad commonsense approach should be taken to the reasoning in a review decision, but when statements are made which are not easily identifiable in the evidence, that is a matter of concern. It is also reflective of the wider concern which the court has as to the care, thoroughness and detail which went into the writing of this review decision.'
More here https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/high-court-quashes-lawyers-decision-not-to-prosecute-police-driver/5071006.article
”Here’s an update on the campaign work in 2018.
Our work with the Lords and MPs continues and we are currently recruiting for our Parliamentary Campaign Group, which will see further political pressure on the CPS to disclose all of the material they hold.
I have been part of a working group that includes representatives of JUSTICE, The Centre for Criminal Appeals, and Inside Justice, on designing a protocol to assist both police representatives and prosecutors in handling requests for post-conviction disclosure. In addition, the Centre for Criminal Appeals are to launch a campaign known as “Show Us The Evidence” which will help ensure that innocent prisoners and campaign groups like ours, doing the work of the CCRC, should have access to the evidence they need to defend those maintaining innocence.
John Collins, on Innocence Fraud here https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-roberta-glass-true-crime-r-30951716/episode/the-wrongful-conviction-of-forensic-science-52731384/
He refers to how ‘the drama of these types of cases impairs our ability to look at these cases objectively’
My concern has only ever been about a Reasonable Doubt, of which I think there is.
The original investigation was inept to say the least. And this will just not do. Guilty or Innocent Jeremy Bamber had a right to a Fair Trial and this he did not get.
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.
My concern has only ever been about a Reasonable Doubt, of which I think there is.
The original investigation was inept to say the least. And this will just not do. Guilty or Innocent Jeremy Bamber had a right to a Fair Trial and this he did not get.
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.Bamber claimed his sister carried out the murders then killed herself
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.
Do you actually think he's innocent or just that his case wasn't proven BRD? The m majority of that particular jury thought it was and that's what counts.
I don't know what happened, but I'm not happy with the court decision. The jury delivered a verdict based on the evidence but if the evidence was dodgy then the jury's verdict was also dodgy.
Are you saying because the original investigation was ‘inept’ you believe Bamber’s trial shouldn’t have gone ahead?
No.
What do you believe was ‘inept’ about it and why ?
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.
What do you believe was ‘inept’ about it and why ?
And what would you have done differently ?
Without doubt Bamber has and is committing innocence fraudJohn Collins, on Innocence Fraudhttps://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-roberta-glass-true-crime-r-30951716/episode/the-wrongful-conviction-of-forensic-science-52731384/
He refers to how ‘the drama of these types of cases impairs our ability to look at these cases objectively’
with lots of help from his CT
By the way Fielder DID make a statement to the police about the episode, the police even asked Fielder if he would give evidence in court should he be needed.
Would be great to get hold of that statement. So anyone who says there is no evidence that bamber tried to sell his dead sisters private pictures, well now we know !!!
Bamber and his pal Brett Collins tried to flog nude pictures of his murdered sister Sheila Caffell around Fleet Street in London for a substantial sum before he was arrested. His friend Brett Collins approached several newspapers on his behalf but every one declined the offer. The Evening Times printed an article shortly thereafter referring to the offer which they felt was in rather poor taste and certainly newsworthy in itself given the circumstances.
Evening Times Article - Tuesday 28 October 1986
(http://i.imgur.com/HqBg3.jpg)
To read full article click here (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cd1AAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6qYMAAAAIBAJ&dq=brett%20collins%20bamber&pg=5839%2C6644530)
”Here’s an update on the campaign work in 2018.
Our work with the Lords and MPs continues and we are currently recruiting for our Parliamentary Campaign Group, which will see further political pressure on the CPS to disclose all of the material they hold.
I have been part of a working group that includes representatives of JUSTICE, The Centre for Criminal Appeals, and Inside Justice, on designing a protocol to assist both police representatives and prosecutors in handling requests for post-conviction disclosure. In addition, the Centre for Criminal Appeals are to launch a campaign known as “Show Us The Evidence” which will help ensure that innocent prisoners and campaign groups like ours, doing the work of the CCRC, should have access to the evidence they need to defend those maintaining innocence.
Erwin James, editor of the prisoners newspaper Inside Time and a member of the all party parliamentary group, spoke of his own experience as a prisoner helping a fellow inmate who he was convinced was innocent. James himself discovered evidence that in his view ‘totally undermined’ the prosecution case but would not have been allowed in by the Court of Appeal because the CCRC judged that it would have taken the view it was not fresh evidence. A situation the journalist called ‘absurd’.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/westminster-commission-on-miscarriages-of-justice-looks-at-watchdogs-independence/
An argument for reforming the Court of Appeal By Glyn Maddocks 4 November 2019
Today, it is now widely accepted that the criminal justice system in this country is, to use the words of Mark George QC, facing a ‘perfect storm’. Overzealous governments have produced legislation by the bucketload aimed exclusively at increasing the conviction rate while simultaneously and savagely destroying the court service, the CPS, the police and the legal aid system. This has led to prisons being full to breaking point. As Polly Toynbee recently said in the Guardian: ‘The tottering edifice is only kept going by the super human goodwill of the dwindling members operating within it.’
Over a period of a few years the criminal justice system has been systematically devalued and the once robust and independent structure which valued human rights and the rule of law is rapidly being destroyed. In the last seven years, the Ministry of Justice’s budget has been cut by 38% – the deepest cuts of any government department. This is unsustainable when all involved are required to do more for less. Former director of public prosecutions Lord Macdonald waded in recently by graphically describing the system we are left with as demoralised, denuded and chronically malnourished.
Investigating miscarriages
In 2017, a group of parliamentarians established the All Party Parliamentary Group on Miscarriages of Justice (APPGMJ). During its first two years, it has grown in strength and expertise and has been very busy and held many events. But of most significance, the APPGMJ has established a Westminster Commission on Miscarriages of Justice (WCMJ) with a brief to investigate the ability of the criminal justice system to identify and rectify miscarriages of justice. Following the model of a select committee this commission has as its co-chairs, Baroness Stern, president of the Association of Members of Independent Monitoring Boards, and Lord Garnier QC, a former solicitor general. They have been joined by Dame Anne Owers, former chief inspector of prisons; Michelle Nelson QC, barrister; Dr Philip Joseph, consultant forensic psychiatrist; and Erwin James, editor-in-chief of the prisoners’ newspaper Inside Time. I act as the commission’s special adviser and it has been fortunate to receive generous support from Simpson Thacher and Garden Court Chambers.
So far, the commission has heard evidence from Helen Pitcher, chair of the Criminal Cases Review Commission, and its chief executive, Karen Kneller. It has also heard from Gerard Sinclair and Chris Reddick, representing the Scottish CCRC. They were able to provide valuable insight into the Scottish approach to dealing with alleged miscarriages of justice, which applies a different test when deciding whether to refer a case to the Scottish Court of Appeal. Many regard this test as less subjective than the ‘real possibility’ test which is applied in England and Wales, and which Pitcher and Kneller said they would welcome the commission looking at to consider whether it should be modified. The WCMJ has also heard from specialist QCs, academics, and experienced appeal solicitors, with further evidence sessions currently being organised.
The commission has also received a large number of written submissions from lawyers, academics, investigative reporters, charities, prisoners and their families. Concerns raised include the failure of the CCRC to carry out proper reviews or engage experts, the problems that arise from the ‘real possibility’ test, the lack of funding available for legal representation when applying to the CCRC, and failures elsewhere in the criminal justice process. Those who have direct experience of applying to the CCRC have also been encouraged to share their experiences by completing a questionnaire.
To date perhaps the most powerful evidence received by the commission has come from Dr Dennis Eady, of Cardiff University’s Innocence Project. Eady pointed out that the CCRC’s referral rate had plummeted over the last three years – down from a 20-year average of over 30 to just 13 last year. Eady said that a referral rate of about 1% of the total number of applications represented a ‘snowball’s chance in hell’. He went on to say that he believes that things have got so bad and so serious that there is a greater need now for a royal commission than there was in the 1990s.
Reform the Court of Appeal?
Eady was also understandably concerned that the WCMJ might make a few recommendations for the CCRC to be ‘a bit bolder’ as the Justice Select Committee did in 2015.
‘There is a danger we might mess around on the periphery of things which might make them better for a little while, but I think essentially we’ve got to be more radical in the approach we take’, he said. ‘We’ve lowered the standard of proof consistently, we’ve knocked out due process safeguards, and we’ve become a much more convictionalist kind of society. We’ve had moral panics around sex offences and joint enterprise and that has got lower and lower and lower in terms of convicting people. At the other end, as we have heard, the Court of Appeal’s bar has got higher and higher and higher. The CCRC is stuck between a rock and a hard place.’
Eady suggested it was high time to reform the Court of Appeal and allow the CCRC to have more power and the ability to quash convictions.
Whether this will form part of the recommendations to be made by the Westminster commission remains to be seen. Many feel that, sadly, the topic of miscarriages of justice is not given the priority that it deserves by those in power. There is obviously a great deal to be done and it is fair to say that the commission is determined to complete its task as soon as possible, and provide robust and practical recommendations for reform that will hopefully go some way to restore faith in the system.
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/an-argument-for-reforming-the-court-of-appeal/5102022.article#.XcFSL8Fx8GM.twitter
I don't know what happened, but I'm not happy with the court decision. The jury delivered a verdict based on the evidence but if the evidence was dodgy then the jury's verdict was also dodgy.
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
“...one thing I did learn in prison is that there is no such thing as false hope - there is only hope.” Erwin James
@TheErwinJames
#JeremyBamber
#Innocent
#NoDisclosureNoJustice
8:52 AM · May 13, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1260477941571555330
Latest News 19.12.19
Statement regarding the White House Farm ITV drama.
“We first became aware of a planned ITV drama about Jeremy’s case in December 2017, and took immediate steps to offer our assistance by contacting Kim Varvell at Production Company ‘New Pictures’, Commissioning Editor Kevin Lygo at ITV and writer Chris Mrska. We were willing to provide access to brand new forensic reports, our team of scientists, the case material, fresh evidence, and Jeremy and his legal team. Our offers were ignored, and we believe therefore, that the drama can only be based on factually incorrect and very out of date material.
Our campaign is not only about proving Jeremy’s innocence, but protecting the memory of his much-loved family who will undoubtedly have their characters dissected and denigrated in order to make sensationalised television. This will not benefit anyone, least of all Jeremy in his fight for justice, but will simply be a money pot for ITV, reaping in millions of pounds from a family tragedy that is still unresolved.
We need to make it clear that the Jeremy Bamber Campaign, Jeremy, and his legal team, do not endorse this drama.
Mark Newby, Jeremy’s solicitor, has written to ITV requesting that owing to the sensitivity in the current legal approaches that have been made to the High Court that the drama at the very least be postponed. Mr Newby of Quality Solicitors Jordans wrote:
“We have written to the producers of the Drama Series and invited them to postpone the broadcast of this series whilst matters are resolved in the High Court . We have intimated that we are concerned that such a drama series by its nature will place a fictitious narrative in the public domain which may be counter productive to the administration of justice in due course.”
We sincerely hope that in the interests of fairness and justice that ITV accede to this request.https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/case
Without a timeline of when Bamber was ‘bedding’ who the real picture of how he was treating JM at that time isn’t clear
The fact ‘no women’ has come forward doesn’t suggest Bamber wasn’t violent - there could be various reasons why they’ve chosen to not come forward and he’s a convicted mass murderer and child killer after all
As for his abuse of others - it’s all there if you choose to see it
Who did Bamber meet at ‘The Chequers on a night out with Charles Marsden’ ?
What date was that and was this yet another person he cheated on JM with?
Was this ‘Anne’ from Colchester or someone else?
Take it Bamber and the CT have ‘Anne’ and Anji & Virginia Greaves witness statements as these aren’t on their list for disclosure
Here’s the list, via Peter Tatchell here https://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/jeremy-bamber-police-evidence-withheld-32-years/
”These are the documents, recordings and photos requested:
Original manuscript/handwritten logs by Malcolm Bonnett (civilian telephone operator at police HQ) and PC West showing that Nevill Bamber (father of Jeremy Bamber) called the police saying: ‘daughter gone berserk’ and ‘has got hold of one of my guns’. There are two separate logs: one pertaining to Jeremy Bamber and one pertaining to Nevill Bamber.
Malcolm Bonnett’s original handwritten statements dated 13.09.85, 08.11.85 and 16.12.85 referring to: ‘Mr Bamber and ‘Mr Bamber Junior’.
Original situation report made by PS Bews following the sighting of someone alive in White House Farm that he saw through a bedroom window prompting him to request firearms assistance.
Original statements made on 07.08.85 by PS Bews and PC Myall who saw movement in a bedroom window of White House Farm.
DI Kenneally’s 06.09.85 report following his investigation stating Sheila Caffell (sister of Jeremy Bamber) was responsible for shooting her family and then herself.
Plus DI Kenneally’s statement made post trial for the Dickinson enquiry (1986).
Audio recordings of:
PC West’s calls to HQ operator Malcolm Bonnett
All radio traffic referred to by Malcolm Bonnett
The raid team’s open microphones
PC Milbank’s pocket book recording all his monitoring of the telephone line at White House Farm from 06:09 on 07.08.85.
All original handwritten statements and pocket book entries from the first case investigation of murder/suicide SC/688/85 including:
PC 7975 David Bishop statements dated 14.09.85
DI Cook statements dated 07.08.85.
DS 219 Davidson statements dated 09.08.85
DCI Jones statements dated 07.08.85
PS Mildenhall statements dated 18.09.85
Inspector Montgomery statements dated 20.08.85
Chief Inspector Wright statements dated 09.09.85
PS 36 Bews statements dated 18.09.85
PC 1902 Cracknell statements dated 17.09.85
PC 721 East statements
DC George Henderson statements
PC 1046 Maunder statements
PC 1445 Reed statements
PC 366 Shoulders statements
Original reports by forensic scientists referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to that of Sheila Caffell and of beneficiary Robert Boutflour (uncle of Jeremy Bamber).
Public Interest Immunity file on Julie Mugford (Jeremy Bamber’s girlfriend at the time of the killings) referring to a ‘deal’ with the Crown Prosecution Service in exchange for immunity from prosecution for five criminal offences, three of which were unknown to the jury. Plus disclosure of the Essex police file on the £25,000 News of the World deal, agreed to in November/December 1985 (pre-trial) by Julie Mugford via her solicitors.
All photographs taken of all the rooms in White House Farm including those containing firearms and all telephones in situ.
Sheila Caffell’s medical/psychiatric records referring to her conversations with her psychiatrist where she informs him she was afraid she would kill her children.
Plus Sheila’s diaries during periods where she had psychotic episodes (1983 and 1985).
All forensic scientist’s pre-trial handwritten statements, lab reports and post-trial DCI Dickinson enquiry interviews pertaining to the sound moderator(s).
Evening Times Article - Tuesday 28 October 1986
(http://i.imgur.com/HqBg3.jpg)
To read full article click here (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cd1AAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6qYMAAAAIBAJ&dq=brett%20collins%20bamber&pg=5839%2C6644530)
Didn’t Mike Tesko introduce ‘four moderators’ ?
2010
Bambers letter to Mike Tesko re 2 sound moderators https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=210.0
There’s mention of Aunt Agatha and Facebook too - that was around the time her and I communicated
Please, do not spread misinformation Nicholas.
He was told, and supposedly proven at court, that the silencer was used. He had no evidence, proof or paperwork at that time to suggest otherwise.
I'd have to look through my paperwork to find this out and that something I'm not prepared to do.
However, it was years later.... Mike Tesco would be a more valuable source than I regarding that.
I had to go to the police and reported it. Arrests where not made at the time. I decided to remove myself completely and closed any social media links I had. I was not prepared to battle this out amongst obsessive Bamberettes.
Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why. I knew the basic facts of course, I had followed it in the media from day one. You could say I had grown up with the case. Over the last four years I have done as much in depth research as I can and I now spout with confidence (and I do often!) why I know Jeremy did not and could not have killed his family. I have spent probably 100’s of hours reading all the information that is available to me and I know the following to be true or point to Jeremy’s innocence, in no particular order and certainly not exhaustive:
• No forensics link Jeremy to the murders.
• There was more than one sound moderator, exhibit labels were manipulated and four moderators were passed off to the jury as one and recent forensics have revealed that the silencer wasn’t even used in the murders.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru
Didn’t Mike Tesko introduce ‘four moderators’ ?
Trudi Benjamin
• There was more than one sound moderator, exhibit labels were manipulated and four moderators were passed off to the jury as one and recent forensics have revealed that the silencer wasn’t even used in the murders.[/i]
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru
Here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7240.0.html
David posted the following nonsense claim
"The circumstances and evidence to undermine the sound moderator seem overwhelming."
Did he followup with anything accurate or intelligent? Of course not.
He starts out saying "Boutflour is alleged to find the sound moderator on the 10th of August. This is handed into the lab on the 13th by DI Cook. Multiple copies of the submissions have been made and altered."
He implies that there is something wrong with multiple copies of the submission being drafted when in fact it was required to be submitted in triplicate so they had to hand write 3 copies of the Holab form. He claims it was altered though all that happened is on one of the 3 forms Cook made a clerical error. Cook labeled the moderator lab item 22 and wrote that on the first 2 copies. He screwed up and wrote lab item 23 on the third form. To COLP he admitted he screwed up the third copy and that there was only 1 moderator. If there were two moderators being submitted all three forms would contain both lab item 22 and lab item 23 not either or. All 3 copies were supposed to be identical he simply screwed up on one.
So far David's claims don't undermine a damn thing except in his imagination.
He next states that "It is then alleged in a document typed in November 1985 that on that day human blood was discovered inside the moderator. If so why did this initial discovery of human blood on the 13th not trigger an arrest for Jeremy? If the accounts written in retrospect are correct then they had the smoking gun evidence within a matter of days?"
First of all police weren't told about the findings until the 14th. Second all police were told was that there was red paint on the knurled portion and human blood on the outside and inside the moderator. The lab didn't know whose blood it was at that point. It was not until further testing was done that they determined it was Sheila's blood, that it got there by drawback and that experts who did such work explained the significance of such results to police. That happened in September. When was Jeremy arrested- in September after such evidence was available.
David suggests the only records are from November completely ignoring the contemporaneous lab examination records and instead lies trying to pretend that the only paperwork that exists is from November. He is as pathetic as mike. There not only is contemporaneous lab examination records but COLP stated there was documentary proof the police were notified of the results on August 14. This is corroborated by the police going to WHF on August 14 to take paint samples.
Next he writes:
"DI Cook in the COLP investigations then explains the lack of paperwork
As I intended carrying out the examination myself using their facilities then the items would never I leave my possession and therefore proof of continuity using those forms Was not required, as they were only intended for submission to the Huntingdon Laboratory. The continuity of these exhibits was solely my responsibility."
This is an honest and accurate explanation of why continuity forms when he brought the moderator to be fingerprinted were not required. There were plenty of other documents simply no continuity sheets showing the moderator taken to Sandridge. On page 26 (Bates Stamp 190) of his COLP interview Cook notes he entered the moderator on the evidence room reception sheets on August 13. Thus there were in fact records of it being in police custody in the evidence room August 13 after it returning for the lab. He didn't fill out continuity sheets to show he took it to Sandridge because he did all the work and had it in his possession. Continuity sheets are for when it leaves his possession. He did in fact fill out continuity sheets to convey it to the lab and also filled out HOLAB forms to the lab, the lab acknowledged receipt sending one of those Holab forms singed received back to HQ and alos they did fill out the examination record. Page 28 (Bates Stamp 192) specifically discusses the continuity sheets that exist showing it conveyed to the lab on August 13.
That no continuity sheets were filled out to take it to Sandridge but only documents showing it going to the lab is is not proof of anything wrong except in David's imagination. The same page mentions there was also a continuity sheet and Holab forms showing it was conveyed to the lab on August 30 by courier Wolton.
But next comes the real whopper:
"On the 29th of August 1985 DI Cook unscrews the silencer and takes out the baffle plates, he takes the photograph below."
This is a big fat lie. Cook didn't unscrew anything the photo was taken after the lab examined it. Mike hand wrote the date on the photocopy himself made up that it was taken apart by Cook and that cook photographed it after taking it apart himself. David is either as gullible as they come or knows this is complete nonsense but doesn't care.
Since mike made up the claims that renders this babble total nonsense:
"The significance of this is that DI Cook never reports finding any blood. The Crown claims that a considerable amount of blood and blood flakes is sprayed from baffle plates 1 to 6. If we are to believe the silencers authenticity we now must believe DI Cook just happened to miss seeing all this blood."
Cook didn't take it apart and never claimed he took it apart so why would Cook write that he saw blood after he took it apart? David suggests Cook stated he took it apart but failed to mention finding any blood though he never claimed such and the assertion he took it apart is complete fiction.
Next this:
"In the transcripts of the recorded COLP interview DS Davidson who was involved in handling the evidence forms claims he has never seen a silencer and was never aware any relatives found silencer"
Davidson ACTUALLY said he wasn't aware that they found the silencer until much later. He didn't say that he was hearing from COLP for the first time that the family found the moderator.
David then says Davidson was unaware that Cook handled the moderator:
"Also in transcripts of the recorded COLP interview with DS Davidson he claims to have no idea of DI Cook having a sound moderator"
He uses this to try to pretend that Davidson was caught in a lie:
"only to say at a much later stage of the interview that DI Cook did tell him about the sound moderator. Its seem DS Davidson has either been caught out or has used information told to him in the earlier stages of the interview to cover his mistakes."
The truth is that Davidson wasn't involved with handling the moderator so didn't have much knowledge about it. All he knew is that Cook was taking care of the moderator and learned well later the family had found it. Given his lack of involvement it is understandable why 6 years later he would not remember much about it. He never knew much to begin with and 6 years has passed. Al Davidson told COLP is that he didn't find out about the moderator until much later and didn't find out the family had found it until much later. He never suggested he never heard of a moderator till COLP told him.
Next he posts this: "Then in September a second sound moderator is found - according to this police log"
The log doesn't say a second moderator was found. Boutflour told them about the moderator he found in August that he had the Eatons turn in. They picked up the scope and bullets that day but not the shotgun shells so he complained about them not taking everything. He recounted how he had found everything including the moderator. That call resulted in them appreciating for the first time who found the moderator and the scope etc. As a result they subsequently reclassified the items to the DB prefix.
Next he posts this: "PC Whiddon's statement further corroborates a second sound moderator is found. "
Whiddon didn't say anything about 2 moderators he said there was a single moderator. He discussed how he renumbered various items in statements to make the references match up to the actual exhibits.
The moderator SBJ/1 was reclassified DB/1 and later DRB/1
AE/1 the scope was reclassified DB/2 and later DRB/2
AE/2 the bullets and abu ammo carrier was reclassified DB/3 and later DRB/3
David is so inept he is claiming AE/1 and AE/2 are moderators. The exact quote he posts form Whiddon features Whiddon saying that Ann Eaton referred to the scope in her statement as AE/1 but it's actual designation was DRB/1 so he changed her statement to reflect that.
Next David writes: "Superintendent Mckay in the COLP interview with DS Davidson. Also mentions a second silencer" Mckay asks Davidson if he was aware of a second moderator and Davidson said no. Mckay didn't say there was a second moderator he asked a question simply. He asked because at one point Davidson wrote on a form item 23 but other times it said item 22. COLP found the genesis of this. The form Cook screwed up is the one Davidson copied off of when he filled out a form in September. So he copied Cook's error referring to it as item 23. COLP found no evidence at all of more than one moderator collected in 1985.
So all of David's crap fell apart totally under scrutiny.
Next david jumps to the crap that the CCRC rejected because it has no scientific basis in fact:
"Dr Fowler a US medical expert who has investigated three thousand gunshot homicides examines the evidence and concludes the silencer was not attached when Shelia's contact wounds to the neck were inflicted. (also confirmed by two peer reviewers) to this day Dr Fowler's conclusions remain unchallenged"
The claim that Fowler's claims remain unchallenged is complete nonsense. Fowler claimed that HE THINKS Vanezis observed a muzzle imprint around the nonfatal wound but failed to appreciate that is what it was. Vanezis disagrees so right there is a challenge to Fowler's claims. Experts found by the CCRC also challenged Fowler's claims. The photos do not show any muzzle imprints. Vanezis said he observed a bullet abrasion and dirt ring. Fowler said he thinks it was not a bullet abrasion but rather a muzzle imprint. He has no way to establish his opinion is accurate and Vanezis was wrong. So the courts correctly view his claims as unsubstantiated as does any rational person which safely leave David out.
Next david turns to the Sutherst BS:
"The CCRC hired Mr Laws who claimed Peter Sutherst evidence on the scratch marks are inconclusive enabling them to continue the assertion that the silencer was attached. Onto the subject of the scratch marks, Not only does Peter Sutherst conclude that there are no scratches present on the original crime scene. DS Davidson seems to remember there being red paint on barrel end of the weapon with no silencer :o He is then interupted and the subject is quickly changed."
Sutherst's claims were rejected because even by his own admission his tests were not scientifically valid. He admitted he lacked the ability to blow up photos sufficiently unless he had the negatives. Blowing up a copy of a photo and then further blowing up that copy of a copy and so on is not scientifically valid.
As for Davidson, he said he was eavesdropping when Cook was talking to Elliott about red paint on a weapon. Since at the time he didn't know there was a moderator he assumed they were talking about paint directly on a rifle barrel. He knew the murder weapon had no paint on it because he saw the rifle- he was the one who logged it in at WHF so he assumed it was some other rifle found downstairs. David ignores all this and pretends he said it was on the murder weapon directly.
Ever single claim by David has fallen apart under scrutiny they all are BS claims made by mike with were refuted a dozen times on blue by me alone who know how many times total by everyone who has posted on blue.
Bamber’s 2010 letter to Mike Tesco says that AA (The letter refers to her Christian name which I won’t post here) wanted him to put information on her Facebook page - the one she says she ‘closed’ (below)Re Aunt Agatha
Bamber’s 4th July 2010 letter to Mike states,
‘********** wanted you to put some stuff on her Facebook site. I hope that you don’t go too overboard - smiley face - and if you stick to the 38 page statement of claim we’ll be quids in. As we put up other issues we can deal with them.
I was thinking about the action report instructing DS Davidson to fingerprint the sound moderator dated 13th Sept 1985. But did they ever do so.
This is around the same time Bamber discarded Aunt Agatha
Aunt Agatha claims above to have ‘closed any social media links I had’ but this is misleading as she communicated with me via a Facebook account using a pseudonym - think the pseudonym was Parker something or something Parker?
You stated on the blue forum here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358356.html#msg358356
“I've said this so many times on here.....I remember the early days - before the revelations.
I'm certain he had absolutely no idea of what exactly happened that night.
The lies we had been fed by the police did not make sense.....nothing fitted into place.
Together we went over and over the same things, hoping that one of us could (as there was only two of us then), might pick up on something we'd overlooked previously.
I was there when the new revelations came about also - he would phone me upon reading the new evidence .... We would then try to piece that new information together and then he would find further information and again we would try to form anther picture of what happened.
That picture changed many times as more information was being revealed.
In the beginning we had absolutely no idea what happened that evening... We were given the pieces of the jigsaw and we always questioned it but it was stated at court that the silencer was used. FACT!
Over the years information and paperwork that Jeremy had not seen before the trial came to light... Based on this new information he would try again to get the pieces of the jigsaw to fit together.
Bamber’s 2010 letter to Mike Tesco says that AA (The letter refers to her Christian name which I won’t post here) wanted him to put information on her Facebook page - the one she says she ‘closed’ (below)
Bamber’s 4th July 2010 letter to Mike states,
‘********** wanted you to put some stuff on her Facebook site. I hope that you don’t go too overboard - smiley face - and if you stick to the 38 page statement of claim we’ll be quids in. As we put up other issues we can deal with them.
I was thinking about the action report instructing DS Davidson to fingerprint the sound moderator dated 13th Sept 1985. But did they ever do so.
This is around the same time Bamber discarded Aunt Agatha
From the same letter - page 3 (https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=210.0)
Bamber claims,
“It’s the documents that don’t exist that prove this case just as much those docs that do exist - I’ve got a long letter explaining all this that I will circulate this week”
Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why. I knew the basic facts of course, I had followed it in the media from day one. You could say I had grown up with the case. Over the last four years I have done as much in depth research as I can and I now spout with confidence (and I do often!) why I know Jeremy did not and could not have killed his family. I have spent probably 100’s of hours reading all the information that is available to me and I know the following to be true or point to Jeremy’s innocence, in no particular order and certainly not exhaustive:
• No forensics link Jeremy to the murders.
• There was more than one sound moderator, exhibit labels were manipulated and four moderators were passed off to the jury as one and recent forensics have revealed that the silencer wasn’t even used in the murders.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru
Didn’t Mike Tesko introduce ‘four moderators’ ?[/i]
Trudi Benjamin
When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why. I knew the basic facts of course, I had followed it in the media from day one. You could say I had grown up with the case. Over the last four years I have done as much in depth research as I can and I now spout with confidence (and I do often!) why I know Jeremy did not and could not have killed his family. I have spent probably 100’s of hours reading all the information that is available to me and I know the following to be true or point to Jeremy’s innocence, in no particular order and certainly not exhaustive:
It was reported publicly (1986) that during committal proceedings in October 1985, counsel had stated Bamber had exerted a ‘powerful influence’ over his former girlfriend.
Evening Times Article - Tuesday 28 October 1986
(http://i.imgur.com/HqBg3.jpg)
To read full article click here (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cd1AAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6qYMAAAAIBAJ&dq=brett%20collins%20bamber&pg=5839%2C6644530)
Trudi Benjamin is a bare faced liar when she makes claim,
“I hate injustice. I hate it with a passion”
She states here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru
‘It still doesn’t explain why I campaign for Jeremy, so I believe he is innocent but I’m often asked why dedicate so much of my time and energy for someone I have no connection to and have never met. Well that is simple I hate injustice. I hate it with a passion.
She blocked me on Twitter not long after I joined. Why would she do that?
Seems Trudi Benjamin doesn’t understand the meaning of the word injustice
If she genuinely hated injustice as she claims she would have recognised long ago the injustice suffered by JM at the hands of Bamber
Re: Tonight or never!
CAL'S reference to Julie Mugford's w/s, 18 November 1985:
‘You sound pissed off,’ she said. Jeremy told her, ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’
Julie Mugford's reply to Rivlin at trial:
Rivlin turned to the telephone call from Jeremy at 10pm on 6 August, comparing her later description with her first witness statement. Julie responded defiantly: ‘I am not a liar. He said, “It’s tonight or never”, as simple as that. He told me, and I didn’t say it to the police initially because I was scared.’ Then she burst out: ‘Is that okay? Is it excusable for somebody to be scared?’ She began to cry violently and covered her face, mumbling, ‘I’m sorry, my lord.’
Lee, Carol Ann. The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. Pan Macmillan
Because they were either deluded or have become deluded
Trudi Benjamin appears to have been deluded to begin with
She publicly claimed here http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/tru
“When I fist wrote to Jeremy at the tail end of 2010 I already believed that he was innocent, although I probably wasn’t exactly sure why (sic)
JM stated,
“In the cafe we started talking and I asked him what was going on in respect of our relationship. He said it had already been sold out.
I told him he was selfish and that I couldn’t let him get away with hurting people anymore. He said, ‘you mean I either confess; going to the police or I carry on the relationship with you’
He thought I was giving him an alternative.
We discussed our relationship further and basically he could have freedom and do what he wanted to do
Julie Mugford witness statement page 28 (http://i.imgur.com/BobIW.jpg)
Who’s the author of this https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?
Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm
Everyone copes with trauma in different ways. Jeremy had been kept away from the house when the Fire Arms Team were called in. He had been asked to stay in a police car on Pages Lane with officers who testified that he was distressed. He kept looking as though he was going to break down and they distracted him with talk of other things. PC Lay stated in his 1st of October statement:
“There were two or 3 occasions during the conversation that Jeremy appeared to be getting upset. On one of these occasions he said, “Oh God, I hope she hasn’t done anything stupid.” I didn’t ask him to elaborate on that remark as the man was getting distressed and so I steered the conversation to another subject.”
Lay goes on to say:
“The Witham Duty Sergeant came over to the car. He went to the nearside and opened the passenger door and said – I’m very sorry there’s no hope for any of them.” Or words to that effect. At that Jeremy burst into tears and the Sergeant tried to console him.”
Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask, which made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge. The only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread. He ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers.
Many of Jeremy’s responses have been used against him, for example, the talk of buying a Porsche was used as evidence to demonstrate that he was already planning to spend his inheritance on a new sports car, but the truth was that Jeremy was referring to a buying a cheap replica Porsche kit. The case is littered with myths and circumstantial evidence. The facts are that there was no evidence against Jeremy Bamber; nothing connected him to the scene. In court the moderator was the only thing suggesting that Sheila had not shot herself. She could not have fired one shot leaving her blood in the moderator and then taken the moderator downstairs and put it in the gun cupboard and returning upstairs again where she was found. Even though this still did not connect Jeremy to the killings, the judge stated at court that because Jeremy said his father had made the call to him – it meant the killer had to be either Jeremy or Sheila and not a third party. It does beg the question as to why there has been so much emphasis placed on the precarious evidence of Mugford and her hit man story which was demonstrably disproved. So, with absolutely no evidence – why is he in prison?
Jeremy Bamber let Julie Mugford and his friends and relatives take over the running of almost every part of the aftermath of the tragedy.[1] Unable to cope with entering White House Farm without experiencing trauma and severe anxiety Jeremy continued to smoke cannabis heavily, whilst drinking alcohol and taking diazepam as prescribed by his doctor. [2]
The question must have turned over in his mind a million times: If I hadn’t left the gun out on the settle would this still have happened?Had he forgotten to take the magazine out or not? No, he was sure he had taken the magazine out. Had Sheila noticed that he had left the gun like this? He had blamed himself for his own mistakes, but then the farm was full of guns. A collection of seven weapons including rifles and shotguns were there, and he knew that Sheila could have picked up any one of those at any time.
The family solicitor was later interviewed by police and confirmed that he had advised Jeremy to find out the order of deaths[3] something which was later to be used against him by this relatives and the police. Later when the City of London Police investigated, Mr Wilson told them that Jeremy was very emotional on his visits to him and that he had advised Jeremy that he should be appointed sole director of the businesses.[4] A few days after the tragedy Jeremy had to face going into the farm, Ann Eaton took Jeremy around the house after she had been in to clean it and remove valuable items she wanted for herself and her family. She stated that he did not want to go into each room and she described Jeremy as “frightened, hesitant and petrified,” a normal reaction for someone having to face where the bodies of their family had been found. [5]
The family accountant had confirmed that Nevill’s bank account was overdrawn by almost £100,000; [6] all of the estate was tied up in assets. Nevill had borrowed this money to convert his estate in Guildford into five houses. Jeremy had the responsibility of running the farm at harvest time, coping with the funerals of his family, the shock, his grief and the prospect of having little money for funerals as well as paying staff wages. He was an inexperienced farmer at just 24 years old, and Basil Cock had advised that Jeremy appoint Peter Eaton as farm manager to help. Jeremy was also advised that death duties would be high and he would have to find ways of cutting down costs. At the time inheritance duties were 40% of all monies inherited over £200,000. The financial difficulty Jeremy faced was because he was to inherit both his parent’s estates at once. The accountant told him that he would owe around £80,000 in tax.
Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a frequently after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.”Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief. [7]
Some weeks later after the tragedy Jeremy attended the farm. On the 23rd August he asked both Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttell to clear out much of the clutter that filled up the rooms of White House Farm. This included a large collection of magazines in the kitchen under which Jean Bouttell found the spare telephone. She asked Jeremy what she should do with it he just remarked it was a spare.[8] There was much discussion over this telephone which was later a court exhibit.
Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship. Her endless demanding behaviour must have become tiresome to him. He had offered to buy Julie a wine bar in London and had given her money to help her as a student teacher. Jeremy wanted to be with another woman called Virginia whom he had known for some time. He turned to Virginia for comfort away from Julie’s violent tantrums and demands. Did Bamber tell the author of this piece this ?[9] Julie was becoming more and more difficult and resented Brett Collins being around and suspected that they were lovers.
Brett had said he was experienced in the sale of antiques and together with Jeremy they took some valuables to Sotheby’s for auction to raise funds to help with the impending death duties much to the horror of the relatives. During the period before he was charged with the murders Jeremy Bamber had twice headed overseas rejecting what had happened and feeling distressed at the constant press intrusion into his life.
After DCI Jones was removed as head of the investigation he worked under Supt Ainsley. DCI Jones had to arrest Jeremy Bamber for the first time at Moorshead Mansions. Almost immediately after his arrest and still at the flat Jeremy had blurted out that he had possession of Marijuana and handed some over to Jones. At interview he easily confessed to burgling the caravan park to prove a point by using a key kept inside the letter box. He also confessed to cultivating marijuana in his back garden which he sold to friends. For someone who owns up to crime so easily, it seems to me that if Jeremy Bamber had committed the killings he would not be able to stop himself from confessing. Nevertheless, in 29 years there has never been any admission.
After his first arrest on the 8th of September, he was questioned for four days sometimes until 11pm at night. The interviews were not audio recorded but hand written each day. The first two days of questioning were done without Jeremy having a solicitor present. Police constantly pressed him on the positioning of the gun accusing him of telling some police officers that the rifle was on the table, but he was adamant the gun was on the settle. DS Stan Jones asked him if he had or hadn’t fired the gun. He was insistent that he had not fired the rifle. They went over and over the telephone call from his father. The records of these interviews span for hundreds of pages. DS Jones told Jeremy that Julie had said that he had called her before calling the police which contradicted what both he and Julie had initially told police. The time of the call needed to be ‘fixed’ at a much earlier time for the prosecution to state that he called Julie first. This corresponds to PC West’s log having been recorded much earlier but he altered his testimony saying that he filled the log out wrong by ten minutes.
After days of questioning Jeremy gave in with confusion and said that maybe he did call Julie first. This single discrepancy was used against Jeremy although it actually has no real bearing on the facts; whether he called Julie first or the police second the events still happened just as he had said. Since the interview Jeremy has maintained that he called the police before he called Julie. There are no other discrepancies in Jeremy’s accounts throughout his 29 years. This single issue was used to state that Jeremy had lied. Jeremy Bamber’s account has stood up to scrutiny over 29 years and is very robust by comparison with the testimony of Mugford, who had lied about their engagement, the end of their relationship, Jeremy’s relationship with Collins, MacDonald being the hit man, her involvement in drugs and crime independently of Jeremy and her pre-trial deal with the NOTW for 25k.
Through all of the witness accounts, many people have altered their accounts and statements contradicted each other. There is only one account which remains the same to this day and it is the account of Jeremy Bamber. This is because it is the truth and the truth does not alter. Other witnesses (both Police Officers and relatives) have exaggerated and embellished their original accounts in the media and to different police enquiries. Jeremy has coped with the strain of the continual questioning and by comparison with other miscarriages of justice his version of accounts has not altered; he has never confessed nor altered his account under duress.
After his first arrest and release without charge Jeremy was approached by the newspapers for his story. Naively he went to meet with one after his solicitor advised him against it. Jeremy was tired of being vilified by the newspapers after his arrest and wanted to tell his story. Jeremy said that Brett Collins also advised that he should go to meet with the journalist. The Sun journalist wasn’t interested in Jeremy’s account, and continually asked questions about Sheila Caffell and requested any modelling pictures which might have been pornographic. Jeremy had told him that there were none and that there might have been some topless ones but Colin Caffell would have those. The journalist ran the story reporting that the newspaper had been offered these pictures and they also went to the police. The newspaper never obtained pictures of Sheila, because they didn’t exist, further proof that Jeremy Bamber had not intended to sell any pictures to the newspaper.
Jeremy’s efforts to tell his story had gone disastrously wrong. This coupled with the burglary at the caravan park made the outlook very bleak. Stories escalated about Jeremy’s relationship with Brett Collins and his trips abroad. Acquaintances turned their backs on him and his often eccentric, foolish behaviour and socializing with homosexuals was amplified by local gossip. His enjoyment of cannabis, later down classified to a class C drug and frequently used by the middle classes was also a major point of “criminality” used by the prosecution. He was presented as having spent a lot of money on holidays but the reality was on his trip to Amsterdam he, Brett and Julie had shared the same room to economise.
After his arrest the trip to the South of France was glamorized but the fact was that Jeremy and Brett stayed in a caravan to keep the costs low. Anything to escape the now intrusive and destructive glare of the media, Jeremy was an innocent man subjected to similar treatment as other people who are vilified in the press and subsequently released without charge.
Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow. His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves NOT Virginia Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge.[12]
Now Jeremy was in virtual exile in France with his friend Brett trying to support him in the only way he knew how, by leading him to drinking dens. After a short period under police surveillance the officers abandoned their suspect realizing that Jeremy was not going to do anything helpful to the prosecution’s case.[13] Jeremy found the pain was dampened by drinking until the small hours of the night and eventually both he and Brett caught food poisoning on their return journey to the UK by ferry. Jeremy was arrested and charged with murder at the port of Dover. On his arrival in a police vehichle on his last day of freedom, there were several women waving to him and calling out his name. He smiled back as the cameras snapped him in a dazed, exhausted blur of a mask which veiled the pain he would carry for at least another 29 years. This was a photograph often used over the years by the press to demonstrate that he was a shallow and arrogant young man.
To the accompaniment of violins, undoubtedly.
I agree. A story was presented, but I'm not convinced it was proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true.
Any idea who wrote it April?
The author appears to have remained anonymous - unless I’ve missed something ?
That's putting it far too mildly.
No, I haven't, Nicholas. But I'm reasonably confident that it someone who thinks the sun shines out of his nethers!!!
That's putting it far too mildly.
Any idea who wrote it April?
The author appears to have remained anonymous - unless I’ve missed something ?
I’ve seen some of those words in Jeremy Bamber’s blog, so it’s definitely originated from him. He’s obviously got someone to post it online, pretending it’s been written by them. No doubt, he’s told them to alter it a little to try and make it look unlike his writing style — but he wrote all that nonsense.
Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow. His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him.
https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/
His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him.
I don’t know if any of his supporters have a BDP, but the ones I’ve seen post on Twitter become quickly enraged if you disagree with them, which is somewhat “emotional”, I guess...
Oh, and they block you immediately, but that’s because they refuse to hear. They’d rather be DEAF.
I don’t think it’s in the link I put up, but one woman who began writing to a prisoner in America, and insisted he was innocent, eventually had him move in with her when he managed to get released.
That didn’t end well, either.
Just a few weeks later he sliced off one of her ears and pulled some of her teeth out with pliers...
”Convicted murderer who killed his girlfriend after being released from prison was considered a 'high risk to public'
Paul O'Hara stabbed Cherylee Shennan to death two years after being getting out of jail - Jan 2019” (sic)https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/convicted-murderer-who-killed-girlfriend-16486659
Police and probation failures left killer free to murder new partner, inquest rules - July 2019
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/paul-o-hara-cherylee-shennan-murder-inquest-domestic-abuse-lancashire-police-a9015461.html
But why has Bamber or whoever’s written and published it claimed Virginia turned ‘her back on him’ when it was Anji he was seeing NOT Virginia ?
There’s no mention of ‘Anne’ the barmaid from Colchester.
No mention of him having phoned Suzette Ford asking her if she was still in love with him.
Sue Ford attended his trial https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=88.msg750#msg750 after Bamber used the ‘Hoover Maneuver‘ on her https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/hoover-maneuver-the-dirty-secret-of-emotional-abuse-0219154
Plus Anji Greaves doesn’t appear to have turned her back on him ‘after his arrest’ - she was waiting for him with a journalist inside a hotel room
Media photos are of Anji https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/mr-brett-collins-and-angela-greaves-the-29-year-old-news-photo/830974720 NOT Virginia
There are no photos of Virginia they are all of Anji
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-crime-murder-jeremy-bamber-maldon-1985-111059828.html
Wonder what Paul O’Hara’s psychological assessments said about him before he was released from prison to murder again and what were the arguments advanced by him and his prison lawyers at his parole hearing ?
“A report by Lancashire Coroner James Newton said “the lack of inter-agency management or the appropriate sharing of information” also possibly contributed to her death.
The report also argues there was a weak understanding of O’Hara’s manipulative personality and poor risk management of him.
It found there had been no face-to-face visit carried out by Greater Manchester Probation Trust (GMPT) preceding his release and afterwards there was no visibility of his licence conditions.
GMPT also did not inform police of the relationship – which meant no vulnerable person marker was put on her address.
Mr Newton said if police been conscious of the relationship there could have been “other pairs of eyes” keeping an eye on the situation.
The court heard O’Hara, who on release in 2012 was considered “of high risk of causing significant harm to women”, was subject to a life licence and monitoring.”
Evil monster who killed two of his girlfriends will spend the rest of his life in jail
“In 1998 evil Paul O'Hara, then aged 27, lay in a darkened alleyway for Janine Waterworth, 21, and grabbed her - stabbing her fatally 12 times in revenge for their relationship ending.
He was jailed for life but released early in April 2012 after serving 13-and-a-half years for the cold-blooded slaying.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/485882/Murderer-Paul-O-Hara-jailed-for-life
How and why was O’Hara released early from his life sentence for murdering Janine Waterworth?
According to Liz Hull for the Daily Mail he’d been diagnosed with ‘psychopathic traits in prison’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7270477/Convicted-killer-murdered-girlfriend-free-kill-second-woman-blunders-police.html
Don’t know how accurate this is but according to a 2016 article by the Daily Star
Nearly 100 lifers released from prison only to commit another sick crime
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/100-lifers-released-prison-commit-20688006
I’m not up to date with all his dalliances; but I’ve seen an article about Anji. I can’t quite grasp how he had the stamina to have a trio on the go all at one time, and that was the period between him murdering his family and being arrested about six weeks later when he was apparently grief stricken! He kept himself entertained during his mourning, didn’t he?!
And Brett! Wasn’t Brett his secret lover too? Brett alluded to it in the newspaper article some years later...or was he just some bum-fun for Jeremy before dashing off to meet Sue Ford, Virginia, Angie and “steady girlfriend’” Julie? No wonder he had to visit his GP for the rashes/sores he developed...Oh, I wonder if he informed the Swiss woman he met in France and had back-scratching sex with that he’d discovered those sores? Probably not...
Haven’t read about Ann, but whoever she was she dodged a bullet didn’t she?!
In addition, Mike never even knew I existed until he found the paperwork!
He wanted to protect me as much as possible. I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days. We had time alone, had photos taken together...
Yes we did. We had an officer maybe at one end of the room, sat quite a distance and we were able to do what we wanted, within reason of course.
LONG LARTIN PRISON OCTOBER 1993
This is an edited interview with Jeremy Bamber conducted by telephone from Long Lartin prison where he is currently serving five life sentences. Bamber sounded if not convincing, at least convinced. At the top of the letters he writes to his friends and supporters, he puts in capitals how long he has been inside:
2,833 DAYS OF WRONGFUL IMPRISONMENT.
What can you tell me about Sheila? What sort of person was she ?
“God, that’s a hard question to do in just a few sentences. (Blows heavily.) You’ve sprung that on me. In her early life, a normal sister. Interested in English and Art, a sensitive person. A fairly highly-strung person but, up until the age of 17/18, I got on well with her. We had much in common. Then she went up to London and got into the modelling and that changed her quite considerably. It made her too narcissistical (sic).
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber-qa/
JM wouldn’t let Bamber touch her so guess that’s why he went looking elsewhere
Aunt Agatha said she was with Bamber for 18 years - wonder if he was seeing anyone else during that time that AA didn’t know about?
How many years was it before Mike Tesko found out about AA?
Provide more arguments to support your claims, please.
I seem to remember AA saying she first wrote to him in 1990, so if that’s true she only knew him through prison visits and letters.
She also said he was Godfather to her twins...which is impossible.
I’ve noticed how her writing style and persona changes too...she’s definitely putting on an act — is she is a SHE...
Provide more arguments to support your claims, please.
I haven’t “claimed” anything — I’ve merely repeated what AA has said on here — that Jeremy Bamber is Godfather to her twin children. You’ll find it in her posts
If you want me to provide more arguments why I don’t believe that, I shall😌
I’ve never been to a christening in a church and seen a prison van pull up with a Cat-A convicted mass-murderer who’d shot dead two little six-year-old boys in their heads while they slept peacefully in their beds cuddling their teddy bears; one sucking his thumb...and who also killed his mother and father, plus his sister too...walk into the church, handcuffed and flanked by prison guards; then step forward and cradle his Godchildren in his arms as the Vicar blessed them all
Have you ever seen that?😳
I haven’t “claimed” anything — I’ve merely repeated what AA has said on here — that Jeremy Bamber is Godfather to her twin children. You’ll find it in her posts
If you want me to provide more arguments why I don’t believe that, I shall
I’ve never been to a christening in a church and seen a prison van pull up with a Cat-A convicted mass-murderer who’d shot dead two little six-year-old boys in their heads while they slept peacefully in their beds cuddling their teddy bears; one sucking his thumb...and who also killed his mother and father, plus his sister too...walk into the church, handcuffed and flanked by prison guards; then step forward and cradle his Godchildren in his arms as the Vicar blessed them all
Have you ever seen that?
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-it-possible-to-have-godparents-by-proxy/
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-it-possible-to-have-godparents-by-proxy/
I haven’t “claimed” anything — I’ve merely repeated what AA has said on here — that Jeremy Bamber is Godfather to her twin children. You’ll find it in her posts
If you want me to provide more arguments why I don’t believe that, I shall😌
I’ve never been to a christening in a church and seen a prison van pull up with a Cat-A convicted mass-murderer who’d shot dead two little six-year-old boys in their heads while they slept peacefully in their beds cuddling their teddy bears; one sucking his thumb...and who also killed his mother and father, plus his sister too...walk into the church, handcuffed and flanked by prison guards; then step forward and cradle his Godchildren in his arms as the Vicar blessed them all
Have you ever seen that?😳
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-it-possible-to-have-godparents-by-proxy/
I don’t usually find time to search, but by luck I stumbled upon this written by Aunt Agatha some years back...
She says that Jeremy goes to daily prayers and had become a Muslim
I wonder what made him take up religion?😌
But it is an ersatz sort of thing and in my opinion quite meaningless as far as being a Godparent is concerned.
Snip
However, if a special person who you wanted to be a godparent is unable to make it to a christening, there is no reason why they can’t be asked to take on a godparent-like role unofficially, and that kind of relationship can be encouraged throughout the child’s life, but they wouldn’t be entered into the Baptism Register after the christening. If the church has the facilities, they could perhaps be linked via Skype or similar software, so they can still see the service.
Aunt Agatha states it‘Was solely to meet his own needs’
What was he after - a different food menu ?
😂😂😂
I wonder if that was a slip of tongue?
Maybe AA didn’t mean to say what she was thinking?
I know that lots of prisoners become extremely religious and tell everyone they’ve found God...strange, isn’t it?😌
In his case he’s chosen to pray to Allah — so no more bacon sarnies for him!
God, the more that comes out about him the more he fits every trait of a typical life-term prisoner who plays the system...
😂😂😂
I wonder if that was a slip of tongue?
Maybe AA didn’t mean to say what she was thinking?
I know that lots of prisoners become extremely religious and tell everyone they’ve found God...strange, isn’t it?😌
In his case he’s chosen to pray to Allah — so no more bacon sarnies for him!
God, the more that comes out about him the more he fits every trait of a typical life-term prisoner who plays the system...
I don't know how it works today but before Wilkes ' book came out I was sent the draft to read through as Jeremy could not receive it all. Please bare in mind when judging that book, Jeremy and I were grasping at straws: we were working in the dark. Light was only shed on his case a few years back. At the time , we tried to cover everything..... With hindsight , we knew so little.
She’s indicated he’s greedy when it comes to money
until he began to control the Groups and the campaign. He had never tried to control me before....and I feel he found me difficult to deal with, so yes, he changed again. He began to lie to me and become more aggressive towards me......however, T***** B***** was the main cause behind that. Her lies upset and confused him.....wasted his time chasing flying pigs whilst he should have been concentrating on his campaign.
Thank you, Daisy
The link you’ve sent states that the Godparent must be present; however, in special circumstances where one can’t attend the Church may allow the absent Godparent to “attend” by Skype. Obviously, this new rule has been made for this day and age and is recent. Regardless, even had that been allowed way back when, Jeremy Bamber isn’t allowed use of the internet — so that couldn’t have happened. Besides the prison not allowing it, the Church would balk at the idea of such a revolting suggestion.
Further, as AA has two twin boys, I can’t see any vicar/priest allowing a convicted double child murderer becoming a Godparent — they expect Godparents to be decent, kind, and to be a part of their godchild’s life, bringing them up in the Christian faith. Furthermore, AA states that Jeremy became religious in prison (like so many do 😌) and became a Muslim. So that too would mean he couldn’t become a Christian Godfather.
Today I do not Campaign or work in any way for Jeremy's release. I gave that up years ago!
Neither am I concerned regarding his release or continued imprisonment.
Any feelings or desires I had then with regard to helping him further have now dissipated - the day he chose to believe a bunch of complete strangers over me was the day I turned my back on him.
I do however remain of the view that Sheila did have the time and know-how, to kill her immediate family.
It is not that I believe that Jeremy 'could not do it'....that would be quite pathetic, but I do believe in what he told me all those years ago......and only recently did facts to prove the statements he made to me become public.
Jeremy never changed his story - not once!!
He did not 'hate' his family....that is far from true in IMO.
He did not try to sell photo's to the Sun newspaper.......the paper got in touch with him asking he bring modelling photo's of Sheila. Jeremy took a bunch of photo's. They wanted to buy some - Jeremy refused to sell them!
As for making a breakfast the following morning: Many officers had worked through the night and continued to stay well past their shift ending. Jeremy was in a confused and very upset state. He was told to go and rest by the officers. He could not and wanted to keep busy - just doing something in order to help in some small way. He was told to eat but could not, however he set about cooking something for the officers on duty that morning.
I have questioned Jeremy many, many times about his actions before and after the sad events of that night. In the back of my mind there has always been an element of doubt - 'did he do it?' That doubt has remained with me to this day........however the doubt is there only because I was not there myself that night and I genuinely do not know exactly what happened either. Though I will add, that during our discussions, nothing he said ever had me believe for a second that he definitely did it.
I could be wrong..........I have no qualifications or experience in defining whether a person be guilty or not guilty of anything.........all I have are my instincts, and with all the information I received from Jeremy, my instincts tell me he is innocent.
Today I do not Campaign or work in any way for Jeremy's release. I gave that up years ago!
Neither am I concerned regarding his release or continued imprisonment.
Aunt Agatha clearly wasn’t being honest when she made the claimWho cares?
Who cares?
As John Collins pointed out in his book ‘Crime Lab Report’,But that would suggest she's complicit in some sort of fraud, which is patently not the case. She fundamentally believe him innocent and is not some co-conspirator. Surely you know only too well how one can be persuaded?
‘There seems to be an honesty deficit within the innocent movement’
Bamber’s innocence fraud is often highlighted by those who campaign for him - or in Aunt Agathas case - have campaigned for him
She fundamentally believe him innocent and is not some co-conspirator.
But that would suggest she's complicit in some sort of fraud
I have never, Ever, posted photos of Jeremy's belongings until the other day.
I know I haven't as they haven't been out the box to photograph.
Anybody else seen these so called photos I was supposed to have uploaded.?
I've just read that and you're right. I must have posted it briefly then deleted it immediately afterwards.
I know for certain, unless you've copied it Nicholas, that no photos other than what I put on here recently, exist.
I apologise for my error.
Aunt Agatha has lied on this forum several timesI honestly don't think it warrants constant beration. She's clearly in love with the guy and it looks to me like she would be willing to defend him with her last breath. Just leave her to it.
What motivated her to do so I don’t know
One example is when she made claim she had ‘never ever‘ posted photos of Bamber’s possessions
she's not a propaganda conduit.
There's no ulterior motiveAm not so sure
I've just read that and you're right. I must have posted it briefly then deleted it immediately afterwards.
I know for certain, unless you've copied it Nicholas, that no photos other than what I put on here recently, exist.
I apologise for my error.
and is not some co-conspirator
Would you define someone like Mike Tesco as a ‘co conspirator’ to Bamber’s innocence fraud ?I don't know who that is, but he's got a great name.
Surely you know only too well how one can be persuaded?
Julie didn't know that Liz slept with Jeremy so whoever did write it, got it wrong.
Julie didn't know that Liz slept with Jeremy so whoever did write it, got it wrong.
she's not a propaganda conduit.
It was your words "which is impossible" that I wanted you to expand on. Why is that impossible? Same for the other claim you make.
" if that’s true she only knew him through prison visits and letters." How did you work that out?
You were sayingAnd what?
According to Aunt Agatha she was sent the draft of Wilkes book to read through - did you know that?
Thanks for that I now understand your reasoning. I know nothing about the case so I can't help you with any details that you request.
I already explained why it’s impossible for Jeremy Bamber to have been made Godfather.
A few quick reminders why:
He was incarcerated in prison as an A Cat prisoner, so wouldn’t be able to attend a Christening in a church — which makes it impossible.
In special cases a Godparent can watch the event via Skype, but that’s recent, and JB has never been allowed use of the Internet
The Church wouldn’t allow a convicted imprisoned mass murderer, who’d shot dead two little boys (twins) who were just six-years-old
The church would find it revolting that a woman wanted such a man to be a Godfather to her children, who by amazing coincidence happened to be twin boys too. It’s vile, sick and twisted, and if people can’t see that, then I pity them
Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim, and Muslims can’t become Christian Godfathers
Regarding your next question: how did I work out AA only knew JB through letters and prison visits...she first wrote to him in 1990 — when he’d already been in prison for five years. My maths may not be perfect, but even I can work out Agatha only knew him though letters, visits and hurried phone calls...
Would you like me to post where she says she first “met” him in 1990?🙂
I already explained why it’s impossible for Jeremy Bamber to have been made Godfather.
A few quick reminders why:
He was incarcerated in prison as an A Cat prisoner, so wouldn’t be able to attend a Christening in a church — which makes it impossible.
In special cases a Godparent can watch the event via Skype, but that’s recent, and JB has never been allowed use of the Internet
The Church wouldn’t allow a convicted imprisoned mass murderer, who’d shot dead two little boys (twins) who were just six-years-old
The church would find it revolting that a woman wanted such a man to be a Godfather to her children, who by amazing coincidence happened to be twin boys too. It’s vile, sick and twisted, and if people can’t see that, then I pity them
Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim, and Muslims can’t become Christian Godfathers
Regarding your next question: how did I work out AA only knew JB through letters and prison visits...she first wrote to him in 1990 — when he’d already been in prison for five years. My maths may not be perfect, but even I can work out Agatha only knew him though letters, visits and hurried phone calls...
Would you like me to post where she says she first “met” him in 1990?🙂
Aunt Agatha has also said Bamber lies and is aggressive - actually what she said was he ‘became more aggressive‘
Would be interested to hear how Aunt Agatha thinks SC had the ‘time’ and ‘know how’ to murder her children, parents, then herself
Would you define someone like Mike Tesco as a ‘co conspirator’ to Bamber’s innocence fraud ?
Thanks for that I now understand your reasoning. I know nothing about the case so I can't help you with any details that you request.
I’m pleased you now understand my reasoning.
I haven’t requested any details from you, Robbitybob 🤷♀️
I honestly don't think it warrants constant beration. She's clearly in love with the guy and it looks to me like she would be willing to defend him with her last breath. Just leave her to it.
There's no ulterior motive, she's not a propaganda conduit.
Jeremy Bamber became a Muslim, and Muslims can’t become Christian Godfathers
Genuine question - do you have a source for this? I just find that very interesting, if true.
I wasn't aware of that either and in all my correspondence with the man, he didn't mention it.
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread. I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.
I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread. I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.
I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.
Guy?Unless he's also had gender reassignment along with his conversion to Islam (that you can't find any proof of whatsoever), then he's still a guy irrespective of his age.
He’s almost an OAP
Unless he's also had gender reassignment along with his conversion to Islam (that you can't find any proof of whatsoever), then he's still a guy irrespective of his age.
You're still quite spry aren't you, despite your advancing years?
Genuine question - do you have a source for this? I just find that very interesting, if true.
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread. I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.
I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.
I am sorry if things go a bit heated on the other thread. I am genuinely trying to work this case out and establish whether my doubts have foundation.
I don't think it helps that some people (I do NOT refer here to you) are jumping in with assumptions about other people's motives.
Genuine question - do you have a source for this? I just find that very interesting, if true.
When you spoke of religion, it brought a smile to this old face Ian.
I recall the time Jeremy told me he had converted to being a Muslim.
He went for daily prayers etc..........
This action was solely to meet his own needs - but he was not alone!!
Genuine question - do you have a source for this? I just find that very interesting, if true.
The source is Aunt Agatha who claims she was in a relationship with Bamber for around 18 years
There you go...
From dear Aunt Agatha herself 😌
Ask her more — she may enlighten you
I wasn't aware of that either and in all my correspondence with the man, he didn't mention it.
Ah, thank you, Nicholas 😊
I missed your post, so posted it too
Yes, isn’t it strange how convicts become all religious 😇
Myra Hyndley did that: claimed she’d “found God”
Loopy Lord Longford was taken in by that...
Are you aware of this http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10267.msg479352.html#msg479352
@)(++(*
Aunt Agatha claims:
“I suspect Ispy on the red forum is continuing the cover up.
My post calling her out has been removed and this new thread I requested has been disallowed. I wonder why.
“I think more than just an old hag....her posts only confirm she is now part of the latest cover up.
She lying to you Nicholas.
What are you claiming she lying to me about ?
She has given out info which is not in any statements
What are you claiming she’s lying to me about ?
And why have you called her an ‘old hag’ ? That’s not very nice is it *&^^&
I could say far worse. 😂
I don’t think she is even a female. I suspect she is a former police officer who was on the case. Remember early on “she” said if we knew who she was we would be very surprised.
Firstly why she is here.
What her connections to the case are.
Who she is trying to protect.
Her posts are all available for everyone to read.
She has given out info which is not in any statements and ha put out there the deliberate lies, some not on the statements, and she has waves them in front of you.
Read her posts very carefully Nicholas, her posts are not in any way normal for someone who has no connections whatsoever.
Was it her father or uncle who was involved in the cover up?
If so, she should be questioned about it.
If I'm correct, she's making a fool of you all.
Sorry, phone is playing up. Bad grammar from the Chinese I afraid.
I don’t think she is even a female. I suspect she is a former police officer who was on the case. Remember early on “she” said if we knew who she was we would be very surprised.
How are the ‘Chinese’ responsible for what you’ve posted ? *%87
Hello Daisy,
Lovely to see you here.
She is somehow connected and is pulling the wool over people's eyes.
I've never attacked anyone on here, in all my years around, and we've crossed many supporters and guilters alike - this one is not here to debate or try to understand what happened. She has a pretty good idea. Someone unburdened themselves to her and she is out to protect them and ensure Jeremy goes to his grave with the truth.
If I'm correct, after reading Every posy she has made on here, then we have a serious issue going on and she needs to be called out on it. .
Of course she's aware of it.
And of the post I made on here, which she immediately reported and was removed.
She lying to you Nicholas.
Are you aware of this http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10267.msg479352.html#msg479352
@)(++(*
Aunt Agatha claims:
“I suspect Ispy on the red forum is continuing the cover up.
My post calling her out has been removed and this new thread I requested has been disallowed. I wonder why.
“I think more than just an old hag....her posts only confirm she is now part of the latest cover up.
What are you claiming she’s lying to me about ?
And why have you called her an ‘old hag’ ? That’s not very nice is it *&^^&
Of course she's aware of it.
And of the post I made on here, which she immediately reported and was removed.
She lying to you Nicholas.
Incidentally, I never reported any of your posts, Ag😳
You’re harmless and don’t bother me at all — I just think you’re a tad 🤯
I could say far worse. 😂
Didn’t think you’d reported any of her posts but find it interesting how she appears to try to give the impression you have?
You’re absolutely BARKING up the wrong tree, Ag 😌
Someone unburdened themselves to her and she is out to protect them and ensure Jeremy goes to his grave with the truth.
Think Mike Tesko published an email he’d sent to Essex police making false claims about four moderators
MarkWebster_ex_Forensics
@ForSciCon
The fog of time: happens often. Bamber's lawyer gets excited about undisclosed prosecution notes. No, those were made by a defence expert.
5:36 PM · Jul 12, 2013·TweetDeck
https://mobile.twitter.com/ForSciCon/status/355727452837904384
MarkWebster_ex_Forensics
@ForSciCon
Materials retained by the defence can become "corrupted" over the years. I was approached by a lawyer for Jeremy Bamber claiming to have found previously undisclosed HOFSS examination notes. No,these were defence examiner Pat Lincoln's notes that had been misfiled.
10:44 AM · May 26, 2018·TweetDeck
https://mobile.twitter.com/ForSciCon/status/1000311785474478080
Sister rivalry? Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.
Why hasn’t Trudi Benjamin corrected the lies
JM appears to have a strong case for libel against JB campaign Ltd
Along with the many other lies and defamatory statements Bamber’s CT website states something about JM & LR and a trip to Malta ?
‘Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.
Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false
Sister rivalry? Charles Marsden in his w/s said Jeremy mentioned that Virginia was going to move into Sheila's old flat with him and that, supposedly, was the subject of her phone call which inflamed Julie.
Aunt Agatha if the ‘new thread’ you requested was targeting another poster and their identity do you really not understand why it may have been disallowed ?
Someone recently posted a copy of the News of the World contract
Does anyone know where it is pls ?
That's all I can find ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=340.msg7147#msg7147
Oh, sorry for the late reply. I've only just seen this topic.
Yes, Jeremy had a deal with the NOTW which pre-dated JM's deal. His deal was for £40,000 which was given because the NOTW didn't believe him to be guilty and thought it would be a big scoop for them to have the story of a someone who had faced trial on a case that had gotten a great deal of attention, the deal was put together by David Montgomery but then something happened. The higher ups at the NOTW realised Bamber was guilty, they'd been saying this in their paper that Bamber was guilty for some time previous but there was always a belief that there was a great chance that Jeremy would get away with it, even if he was guilty due to the evidence.
But then when the belief changed, they realsied that they wouldn't be paying £40,000 and wanted to have a story to print, an exlcusive - so who was the next best thing? Julie. Her agreement was signed AFTER Jeremy's which is somethnig most people don't know, in fact most people do not know Jeremy had a deal in place, he did. Montgomery worked with Julie too on her deal and found her to be much easier to deal with as Jeremy would often make phone calls to the news team in the lead up to him isnging his agreement and he would bitch and moan about the sum of £40,000 - he wanted more. Lotsd more.
I posted all of this and more on the other forum a few days ago - and it dissappeared.
That's all I can find ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=340.msg7147#msg7147
Thanks Brietta 8((()*/
Will put this here
It’s noticeable how when evidence such as what you’ve posted above, Nicholas...Holly, Gunit, MrsWah etc go very quiet 🤐
That wasn’t what I was referring to but it’s along the lines of what I’m looking for
At around 12.33 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY when referring to whether or not Julie signed the contract before or after the verdicts came in Trudi Benjamin states,
‘The contract has not been able to be located so we don’t know’
The above was uploaded to the WWW on the 13th September 2017
That wasn’t what I was referring to but it’s along the lines of what I’m looking for
At around 12.33 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY when referring to whether or not Julie signed the contract before or after the verdicts came in Trudi Benjamin states,
‘The contract has not been able to be located so we don’t know’
The above was uploaded to the WWW on the 13th September 2017
I don’t trust Trudi Benjamin
Have seen the contract, or reference to it, on this forum - The CT obviously didn’t look hard enough or the suggestion of them not being able to locate it is all part of their game plan
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY
But you miss the point. Jeremy was the accused. It was legal for him to have such a deal in place and why shouldn't he? The same cannot be said for Julie Mugford. She was a witness against the accused.
Does anyone know who Jason Holmes is ?
Plus, for me, she gives herself away with the sheer volume of disfluencies she used throughout this interview
She must have said UM hundreds of times and that’s no exaggeration
Don’t know if she was nervous, distracted, or disengaged but something’s amiss for me
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY
I don’t have it to hand, but I do know for fact that Jeremy Bamber signed a contract with The Sun PRIOR to them approaching Julie.
He was already on remand in prison when he signed the deal with the paper, but when it became apparent he was lying (journalists are very clever) they realised he was going down, and so approached Julie.
NB: Julie confessed to everything to the police long before the newspapers approached her.
It’s noticeable how when evidence such as what you’ve posted above, Nicholas...Holly, Gunit, MrsWah etc go very quiet 🤐
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY
I don’t trust Trudi Benjamin
Have seen the contract, or reference to it, on this forum - The CT obviously didn’t look hard enough or the suggestion of them not being able to locate it is all part of their game plan
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWwJYcDpTY
And Yvonne Hartley appears to be using the same sorry tactics once used by Mike Tesko - only she’s years behind
Plus, for me, she gives herself away with the sheer volume of disfluencies she used throughout this interview
She must have said UM hundreds of times and that’s no exaggeration
Don’t know if she was nervous, distracted, or disengaged but something’s amiss - is it because she knows she lying for Bamber and not trusting what’s she saying ?
This might be a useful link for Trudi Benjamin
How to Stop Saying “Um,” “Ah,” and “You Know”
https://hbr.org/2018/08/how-to-stop-saying-um-ah-and-you-know
Um.
Ah.
So.
You Know.
Like.
Right?
Well.
When we find ourselves rattled while speaking — whether we’re nervous, distracted, or at a loss for what comes next — it’s easy to lean on filler words. These may give us a moment to collect our thoughts before we press on, and in some cases, they may be useful indicators that the audience should pay special attention to what comes next. But when we start to overuse them, they become crutches — academics call them disfluencies — that diminish our credibility and distract from our message.
At some point throughout the interview Yvonne Hartley talks about her research and finding something new on a ‘thread’- she used the word THREAD - suspect she means a thread on one of the forums
The campaign team appear to consist of Trudi Benjamin, Yvonne Hartley, Lorna Lake and Heidi Hawkins - that’s it
The four of them
And Philip Walker,
Five
I am a naturally quiet person, I Spy.
All my teachers used to say so!
However, I think either Jeremy or Julie being paid by the NOTW (or any other publication) is distasteful.
In Neil Wilby’s recent blog headed, ‘A wolf in sheep’s clothing’ he’s made reference to both the Bamber case and Trudi Benjamin
The full article can be read here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Idle thoughts of the humourless and gullible from the forum that's as dead as a dodo's egg...
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10269.msg479436.html#msg479436 (https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10269.msg479436.html#msg479436)
She did indeed
But why is Trudi Benjamin and co still attempting to promote these myths and lies
That link doesn’t open for me, Myster
I tried on two servers, too...
It's not worth even looking at, Ispy... but by googling for 'Jeremy Bamber Forum', Charon will ferry you to the land of the dead. They're all over here snooping, anyways.
That link doesn’t open for me, Myster
I tried on two servers, too...
It's only where your alter-ego resides, APRIL!
It didn't open for me either.
It's only where your alter-ego resides, APRIL!
It's not worth even looking at, Ispy... but by googling for 'Jeremy Bamber Forum', Charon will ferry you to the land of the dead. They're all over here snooping, anyways.
Have they finished discussing their blocked toilets? 8(8-))A whole toilet roll flushed can block a toilet.
(How can an old woman who lives alone block a toilet? What does she eat?)
A whole toilet roll flushed can block a toilet.
Yes, Rob, it can! Thank you so much for pointing that out!It brought back the memory of when my little darlings flushed a roll of toilet paper and it totally blocked my sewerage system. $1000 later I found the reason.
You do make me smile! And I'm glad you're feeling better.
Neil Wilby’s blog ‘A wolf in sheep’s clothing’
Excerpt
‘The innocence fraud phenomenon
“Up until shortly after publishing the first Robin Garbutt article, I had never come across the term ‘innocence fraud’. Since then, enough has been learned about the phenomenon to be able to characterise the Garbutt campaign as a serious contender for inclusion in that category., [/font]
‘The Truthseeker Project’ by Sandra LeanWhat an absolute waste of time and YouTube. Totally unlistenable. First Jeremy Bamber, then Gordon Park... Is Robin Garbutt going to be the third criminal that Sandra Lean has got wrong?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY)
Several articles by Neil Wilby on the Garbutt case can be found here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true (https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)
What an absolute waste of time and YouTube. Totally unlistenable. First Jeremy Bamber, then Gordon Park... Is Robin Garbutt going to be the third criminal that Sandra Lean has got wrong?
The full article can be read here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
‘The Truthseeker Project’ by Sandra Lean
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY
Several articles by Neil Wilby on the Garbutt case can be found here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Neil Wilby’s article on the affair is interesting. Poor hapless Trudy gets a mention in.
Wasn’t Prout another Sandra Lean fail
Neil Wilby’s article on the affair is interesting. Poor hapless Trudy gets a mention in.
Wasn’t Prout another Sandra Lean fail
Why, especially after Simon Halls guilt was exposed, is she choosing to attempt to carry on regardless ?
Jane Metcalfe has clearly been groomed and conned by Robin Garbutt & others
She‘s certainly persistent - but should give up, I agree.
Anyone know what happened to the long road to justice?
http://longroadtojustice.com/blurb/
Sandra lean
“Today, my book about the case, Innocents Betrayed, was launched. Profits from the book are being donated to help fund a new organisation, Long Road to Justice, which will be taking a radically new approach to helping the fight against injustice.
Details of the book can be found here:
www.longroadtojustice.com
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg448049.html#msg448049
Unfortunately from what I’ve read about Garbutt, she’s backed the wrong horse again. He must have blanched when the paramedic told him his wife had been dead at least 6 hours.
‘The truthseeker project’ launch https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhThBT712U8
Oh dear, she was welling up already 0:28. Not a good start.
Jane Is first up on Sunday. Also the 999 call has a touch of Olivier. At first he is unemotional, as if ordering pizza. Then the emotion tap is turned on.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY
Oh dear, she was welling up already 0:28. Not a good start.
Jane Is first up on Sunday. Also the 999 call has a touch of Olivier. At first he is unemotional, as if ordering pizza. Then the emotion tap is turned on.
Can we stay on topic please. Feel free to start new threads to discuss other cases. Thank you.
‘The Truthseeker Project’ by Sandra Lean
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbpA1zUquY
Several articles by Neil Wilby on the Garbutt case can be found here https://neilwilby.com/2020/05/19/a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Robin Garbutt told police he was ‘robbed’ and was apparently told to fill a black hold-all with cash from the safe and till - the post office computer system doesn’t link in with his case - unless he’s now attempting to use it as some sort of mitigating circumstance ?
What an absolute waste of time and YouTube. Totally unlistenable. First Jeremy Bamber, then Gordon Park... Is Robin Garbutt going to be the third criminal that Sandra Lean has got wrong?
He’s tweeted an article from 2003 regarding Ray Gilbert https://mobile.twitter.com/michael47478285/status/1225017729511579648
Has anyone seen the photo fit of Ray Gilbert? https://mobile.twitter.com/JusticeSetUp/status/1389143932102119425
If at first, second or third you don't succeed then try, try and try again, but still the delusion continues. The CCRC must be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of dismissing the latest well-worn submission...
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-convinced-24661335 (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-convinced-24661335)
Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546
Emilia di Girolamo
@EmiliaDG
I have exchanged hundreds of letters and phone calls with Jeremy Bamber over the last ten years and am currently the only member of the media allowed to visit him. I have seen the new evidence and forensics reports and they are incredibly compelling
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmiliaDG/status/1214826947953516546
Not because of a change of mind though, it seems...
It appears Emilia di Girolamo has deleted her tweets on Bamber?
https://twitter.com/o0gam7bler/status/1215300577418186752 (https://twitter.com/o0gam7bler/status/1215300577418186752)
Not because of a change of mind though, it seems...Erm…
https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo (https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/emilia-di-girolamo)
Erm…It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defence at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...What a disingenuous claim from this woman, breathtaking dishonesty in fact!
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?
Oh dear, another dim bulb. Even the CT don't try to pretend that Bonnet's log wasn't available at trial. They claim that it was West's log they didn't have sight of while they admit that West himself had a copy of it in the witness box when he was cross examined on his 3.36 time error - a cross examination that obviously proves the defence were fully aware of the time discrepancies on the two logs with the time of Bambers calls to West and JM being important to the vanishing credibility of his ever changing account.Dee Sadler continuing to spout BS on behalf of poor, misunderstood, unloved Jeremy Bamber. Why on earth they think thirty podcasts containing mistruth after falsehood will have any influence and result in his release is beyond me and I would think most other sensible people who have examined this case logically and analytically in depth over many years. Is it any wonder why comments are strictly forbidden on all their podcasts ?... they're obviously scared at being challenged...
I just don't get how anyone falls for this stuff.
Dee Sadler continuing to spout BS on behalf of poor, misunderstood, unloved Jeremy Bamber. Why on earth they think thirty podcasts containing mistruth after falsehood will have any influence and result in his release is beyond me and I would think most other sensible people who have examined this case logically and analytically in depth over many years. Is it any wonder why comments are strictly forbidden on all their podcasts ?... they're obviously scared at being challenged...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_eIfCWFno)
Erm…
“The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.”
Has anyone seen this police log apart from her?
It's tired old news and deliberately misleading. She omitted the next part of the log which states that it was a message passed on by Jeremy Bamber to the police, not a phone call from Nevill Bamber himself...
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️
‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.
Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.
Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.
My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.
I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.
If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?
The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.
If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.
I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.
The Bamber case echoes around the world of miscarriages of justice, just as much as it has echoed around the walls of the Criminal Cases Review Commission.
The barrier to investigating his case – as to investigating many other cases – is the weight of the evidence against him.
He told his girlfriend he was going to murder his family. Or so she said. He showed his contempt, even hatred for his family to many. And of course he was – apparently - caught out by the silencer.
Any evidence of police misconduct or of mistakes or lies would have to be of a substantial nature to overturn that conviction. He thought he had found an answer in 2002 when the Commission referred the case for a new appeal on the basis of DNA evidence, but that was rejected by the Court. Bamber has since focused his efforts elsewhere.
I believe he now claims there were two silencers in the case, not one. The CCRC will no doubt examine and form its own view of that alleged new evidence.
Here is a difficult question: Is Jeremy Bamber an innocent man because he says he is? Is his case for innocence enhanced by the persistence of his claims?
You could say, he is sitting in his cell, going nowhere, with nothing better to do than try to find a way out of the hole he is in. Or you could say, he is fighting desperately to prove the truth and be justifiably free.
A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.
Did he, didn’t he.
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber ⬇️
‘Just over a decade ago I went to interview Jeremy Bamber in prison. His story was recently told in a television drama White House Farm. He was 60 this year and he is currently serving a Whole Life Tariff for the five murders of his mother, father, sister and her two young sons one night in 1985, when he was 25.
Jeremy Bamber is one of those celebrated causes. He has protested his innocence since his conviction. He has had two appeals – both failed, obviously – and his fourth application to them is currently being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.
Bamber has an entire campaigning organisation on the outside, who believe unwaveringly in his innocence and promote his cause in the media, at injustice conferences and other events. They wear Jeremy Bamber t-shirts. They are protective of Jeremy Bamber’s public image, acting as a kind of gatekeeper for his outside interests.
My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice. Legal precedent, known as the Simms/O’Brien ruling, has determined that serving prisoners claiming to be the victims of a miscarriage of justice should be allowed to put their case to the public via the media. It is commonly accepted that media campaigns can be influential in overturning wrongful convictions, though how much impact they have on the minds of Court of Appeal judges, I cannot say. Of course, sometimes investigations by the media can uncover new evidence.
I promised Jeremy Bamber an opportunity to put his case – which was the stated purpose of the interview – and assured him I would be objective. In my heart, I think, looking back, my reading of the evidence was such that I doubted his claims of innocence, but if you read now the article I wrote then, I am confident you would feel I had told his side of the story.
If Jeremy Bamber didn’t kill his entire family, that night, in an attempt to secure his parents’ estate for himself, only one other person can be responsible. As he relentlessly claims, his sister Sheila killed them all and then turned the gun on herself.
The major fly in the ointment of that case is that a rifle silencer was found in the back of a cupboard after the killings with blood that is almost certainly Sheila’s inside it. If the silencer was on the rifle when Sheila was shot under the chin, while lying down, the weapon was too long for her to wrap her fingers around the trigger. She could not have shot herself. And also, how did the silencer find its way into the back of the cupboard when she was already dead?
The prosecution case was that Jeremy Bamber planned to blame Sheila, shot her himself and then, when it came to dress the scene made the awkward discovery about the weapon and hurriedly removed and hid the silencer, neglecting to clean it first.
If that is true he is in the right place. If it is wrong he has been unfairly locked up for 36 years.
Bamber has made multiple claims over the years about the lies of witnesses against him, misconduct by the police, including non-disclosure, and collusion to frame him by his relatives.
I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.
David James Smith speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021r ⬇️
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents
Who’s the author of this https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?
Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm
Everyone copes with trauma in different ways. Jeremy had been kept away from the house when the Fire Arms Team were called in. He had been asked to stay in a police car on Pages Lane with officers who testified that he was distressed. He kept looking as though he was going to break down and they distracted him with talk of other things. PC Lay stated in his 1st of October statement:
“There were two or 3 occasions during the conversation that Jeremy appeared to be getting upset. On one of these occasions he said, “Oh God, I hope she hasn’t done anything stupid.” I didn’t ask him to elaborate on that remark as the man was getting distressed and so I steered the conversation to another subject.”
Lay goes on to say:
“The Witham Duty Sergeant came over to the car. He went to the nearside and opened the passenger door and said – I’m very sorry there’s no hope for any of them.” Or words to that effect. At that Jeremy burst into tears and the Sergeant tried to console him.”
Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask, which made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge. The only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread. He ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers.
Many of Jeremy’s responses have been used against him, for example, the talk of buying a Porsche was used as evidence to demonstrate that he was already planning to spend his inheritance on a new sports car, but the truth was that Jeremy was referring to a buying a cheap replica Porsche kit. The case is littered with myths and circumstantial evidence. The facts are that there was no evidence against Jeremy Bamber; nothing connected him to the scene. In court the moderator was the only thing suggesting that Sheila had not shot herself. She could not have fired one shot leaving her blood in the moderator and then taken the moderator downstairs and put it in the gun cupboard and returning upstairs again where she was found. Even though this still did not connect Jeremy to the killings, the judge stated at court that because Jeremy said his father had made the call to him – it meant the killer had to be either Jeremy or Sheila and not a third party. It does beg the question as to why there has been so much emphasis placed on the precarious evidence of Mugford and her hit man story which was demonstrably disproved. So, with absolutely no evidence – why is he in prison?
Jeremy Bamber let Julie Mugford and his friends and relatives take over the running of almost every part of the aftermath of the tragedy.[1] Unable to cope with entering White House Farm without experiencing trauma and severe anxiety Jeremy continued to smoke cannabis heavily, Wasn’t Bamber already a heavy cannabis user whilst drinking alcohol and taking diazepam as prescribed by his doctor. [2]
The question must have turned over in his mind a million times: If I hadn’t left the gun out on the settle would this still have happened?Had he forgotten to take the magazine out or not? No, he was sure he had taken the magazine out. Had Sheila noticed that he had left the gun like this? He had blamed himself for his own mistakes, but then the farm was full of guns. A collection of seven weapons including rifles and shotguns were there, and he knew that Sheila could have picked up any one of those at any time.
The family solicitor was later interviewed by police and confirmed that he had advised Jeremy to find out the order of deaths[3] something which was later to be used against him by this relatives and the police. Later when the City of London Police investigated, Mr Wilson told them that Jeremy was very emotional on his visits to him and that he had advised Jeremy that he should be appointed sole director of the businesses.[4] A few days after the tragedy Jeremy had to face going into the farm, Ann Eaton took Jeremy around the house after she had been in to clean it and remove valuable items she wanted for herself and her family. She stated that he did not want to go into each room and she described Jeremy as “frightened, hesitant and petrified,” a normal reaction for someone having to face where the bodies of their family had been found. [5]
The family accountant had confirmed that Nevill’s bank account was overdrawn by almost £100,000; [6] all of the estate was tied up in assets. Nevill had borrowed this money to convert his estate in Guildford into five houses. Jeremy had the responsibility of running the farm at harvest time, coping with the funerals of his family, the shock, his grief and the prospect of having little money for funerals as well as paying staff wages. He was an inexperienced farmer at just 24 years old, and Basil Cock had advised that Jeremy appoint Peter Eaton as farm manager to help. Jeremy was also advised that death duties would be high and he would have to find ways of cutting down costs. At the time inheritance duties were 40% of all monies inherited over £200,000. The financial difficulty Jeremy faced was because he was to inherit both his parent’s estates at once. The accountant told him that he would owe around £80,000 in tax.
Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a frequently after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.”Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief. [7]
Some weeks later after the tragedy Jeremy attended the farm. On the 23rd August he asked both Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttell to clear out much of the clutter that filled up the rooms of White House Farm. This included a large collection of magazines in the kitchen under which Jean Bouttell found the spare telephone. She asked Jeremy what she should do with it he just remarked it was a spare.[8] There was much discussion over this telephone which was later a court exhibit.
Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship. Her endless demanding behaviour must have become tiresome to him. He had offered to buy Julie a wine bar When did he offer her this ? in London and had given her money to help her as a student teacher. Jeremy wanted to be with another woman called Virginia whom he had known for some time. He turned to Virginia for comfort away from Julie’s violent tantrums and demands. Did Bamber tell the author of this piece this ?[9] Julie was becoming more and more difficult and resented Brett Collins being around and suspected that they were lovers.
Brett had said he was experienced in the sale of antiques and together with Jeremy they took some valuables to Sotheby’s for auction to raise funds to help with the impending death duties much to the horror of the relatives. During the period before he was charged with the murders Jeremy Bamber had twice headed overseas rejecting what had happened and feeling distressed at the constant press intrusion into his life.
After DCI Jones was removed as head of the investigation he worked under Supt Ainsley. DCI Jones had to arrest Jeremy Bamber for the first time at Moorshead Mansions. Almost immediately after his arrest and still at the flat Jeremy had blurted out that he had possession of Marijuana and handed some over to Jones. At interview he easily confessed to burgling the caravan park to prove a point by using a key kept inside the letter box. He also confessed to cultivating marijuana in his back garden which he sold to friends. For someone who owns up to crime so easily, it seems to me that if Jeremy Bamber had committed the killings he would not be able to stop himself from confessing. Nevertheless, in 29 years there has never been any admission.
After his first arrest on the 8th of September, he was questioned for four days sometimes until 11pm at night. The interviews were not audio recorded but hand written each day. The first two days of questioning were done without Jeremy having a solicitor present. Police constantly pressed him on the positioning of the gun accusing him of telling some police officers that the rifle was on the table, but he was adamant the gun was on the settle. DS Stan Jones asked him if he had or hadn’t fired the gun. He was insistent that he had not fired the rifle. They went over and over the telephone call from his father. The records of these interviews span for hundreds of pages. DS Jones told Jeremy that Julie had said that he had called her before calling the police which contradicted what both he and Julie had initially told police. The time of the call needed to be ‘fixed’ at a much earlier time for the prosecution to state that he called Julie first. This corresponds to PC West’s log having been recorded much earlier but he altered his testimony saying that he filled the log out wrong by ten minutes.
After days of questioning Jeremy gave in with confusion and said that maybe he did call Julie first. This single discrepancy was used against Jeremy although it actually has no real bearing on the facts; whether he called Julie first or the police second the events still happened just as he had said. Since the interview Jeremy has maintained that he called the police before he called Julie. There are no other discrepancies in Jeremy’s accounts throughout his 29 years. This single issue was used to state that Jeremy had lied. Jeremy Bamber’s account has stood up to scrutiny over 29 years and is very robust by comparison with the testimony of Mugford, who had lied about their engagement, the end of their relationship, Jeremy’s relationship with Collins, MacDonald being the hit man, her involvement in drugs and crime independently of Jeremy and her pre-trial deal with the NOTW for 25k.
Through all of the witness accounts, many people have altered their accounts and statements contradicted each other. There is only one account which remains the same to this day and it is the account of Jeremy Bamber. This is because it is the truth and the truth does not alter. Other witnesses (both Police Officers and relatives) have exaggerated and embellished their original accounts in the media and to different police enquiries. Jeremy has coped with the strain of the continual questioning and by comparison with other miscarriages of justice his version of accounts has not altered; he has never confessed nor altered his account under duress.
After his first arrest and release without charge Jeremy was approached by the newspapers for his story. Naively @)(++(* he went to meet with one after his solicitor advised him against it. Jeremy was tired of being vilified by the newspapers after his arrest and wanted to tell his story. Jeremy said that Brett Collins also advised that he should go to meet with the journalist. The Sun journalist wasn’t interested in Jeremy’s account, and continually asked questions about Sheila Caffell and requested any modelling pictures which might have been pornographic. Jeremy had told him that there were none and that there might have been some topless ones but Colin Caffell would have those. The journalist ran the story reporting that the newspaper had been offered these pictures and they also went to the police. The newspaper never obtained pictures of Sheila, because they didn’t exist, further proof that Jeremy Bamber had not intended to sell any pictures to the newspaper.
Jeremy’s efforts to tell his story had gone disastrously wrong. Did his ‘efforts’ start with Kieron Saunders at the Sun This coupled with the burglary at the caravan park made the outlook very bleak. Stories escalated about Jeremy’s relationship with Brett Collins and his trips abroad. Acquaintances turned their backs on him and his often eccentric, foolish behaviour and socializing with homosexuals was amplified by local gossip. His enjoyment of cannabis, later down classified to a class C drug and frequently used by the middle classes was also a major point of “criminality” used by the prosecution. He was presented as having spent a lot of money on holidays but the reality was on his trip to Amsterdam he, Brett and Julie had shared the same room to economise.
After his arrest the trip to the South of France was glamorized but the fact was that Jeremy and Brett stayed in a caravan to keep the costs low. Anything to escape the now intrusive and destructive glare of the media, Jeremy was an innocent man subjected to similar treatment as other people who are vilified in the press and subsequently released without charge.
Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow. His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves NOT Virginia Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge.[12]
Now Jeremy was in virtual exile in France with his friend Brett trying to support him in the only way he knew how, by leading him to drinking dens. After a short period under police surveillance the officers abandoned their suspect realizing that Jeremy was not going to do anything helpful to the prosecution’s case.[13] Jeremy found the pain was dampened by drinking until the small hours of the night and eventually both he and Brett caught food poisoning on their return journey to the UK by ferry. Jeremy was arrested and charged with murder at the port of Dover. On his arrival in a police vehichle on his last day of freedom, there were several women waving to him and calling out his name. He smiled back as the cameras snapped him in a dazed, exhausted blur of a mask which veiled the pain he would carry for at least another 29 years. This was a photograph often used over the years by the press to demonstrate that he was a shallow and arrogant young man.
Fill yer boots an' get marching on the road to nowhere...
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19739019.white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bambers-supporters-hold-protest/ (https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19739019.white-house-farm-murders-jeremy-bambers-supporters-hold-protest/)
Massive turnout LOLA gradely bunch of thirteen... unlucky for some!
Massive turnout LOL
A gradely bunch of thirteen... unlucky for some!
Emma Morris has tweeted a video which includes a Christmas carol and a child wearing a ‘This is Jeremy’ T-shirt with a picture of him and the child is holding up signs saying things like ‘we must tell the truth (Essex Police)’
*&^^&
What kind of person would exploit a child like that *&^^&
And the deluded Bamber supporters like @JBamberFacebook are retweeting it *&^^&
Good grief. *&^^&
Gross and shameful.
Good grief. *&^^&
By my calculations, there are only two serious Bamber supporters, Holly and NGB on blue and neither of them are prepared to state that he couldn't possibly be guilty.
The rest are rather sad. Imagine convincing yourself of something based largely on conspiracy theories and becoming so obsessed that you lose any remaining self awareness and rope in a poor child.
Is Holly back over on blue, I thought she was permanently banned from there?
And the Bamber supporters on Twitter don’t appear to see anything wrong in this - which is telling
Sorry, I should have stated Holly on here, NGB on blue.
However, David and Roch on blue are convinced that Holly is posting on there under the name "CambridgeCutie" because there can never be enough conspiracies on the blue forum!
Well, they didn't see anything wrong with graveside readings or baking cakes either. That justice for Jeremy song was hilarious though. @)(++(*
I don’t recall hearing the song - who sung it?They're charging an extortionate 99p for this junk on Amazon, but you can get it for gratis if you really want earache...
Sorry, I should have stated Holly on here, NGB on blue.Holly's been outed playing for Chelsea blues but scoring countless home goals, sadly.
However, David and Roch on blue are convinced that Holly is posting on there under the name "CambridgeCutie" because there can never be enough conspiracies on the blue forum!
They're charging an extortionate 99p for this junk on Amazon, but you can get it for gratis if you really want earache...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwwYggHhHbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwwYggHhHbo)
Holly's been outed playing for Chelsea blues but scoring countless home goals, sadly.
Huh ?I can't decide whether Holly (aka Cc) has actually seen the light and come to her senses re. Bamber, or is just winding up his supporters on blue. It's a Mystery.
I can't decide whether Holly (aka Cc) has actually seen the light and come to her senses re. Bamber, or is just winding up his supporters on blue. It's a Mystery.
If Holly has ‘seen the light’ why won’t she just say so here?I've absolutely no idea why! It'll all come out eventually... possibly. 8(8-))
I've absolutely no idea why! It'll all come out eventually... possibly. 8(8-))
Good grief. *&^^&
By my calculations, there are only two serious Bamber supporters, Holly and NGB on blue and neither of them are prepared to state that he couldn't possibly be guilty.
The rest are rather sad. Imagine convincing yourself of something based largely on conspiracy theories and becoming so obsessed that you lose any remaining self awareness and rope in a poor child.
We don't have to imagine because we have witnessed the cult of Trump and the anti-vax wackos do exactly the same sort of thing, all for likes in the self validating echo chamber directionless fools find themselves in.
Gross and shameful.
I can't decide whether Holly (aka Cc) has actually seen the light and come to her senses re. Bamber, or is just winding up his supporters on blue. It's a Mystery.
However, David and Roch on blue are convinced that Holly is posting on there under the name "CambridgeCutie" because there can never be enough conspiracies on the blue forum!
Has anyone heard that other moron Dennis Eady here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8
Seems the article he did for the justice gap on killer Simon Hall’s confession has been removed (?)
It’s reproduced here for anyone interested https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2019/07/16/keeping-perspective-continue-the-fight-for-miscarriages-of-justice-by-dr-dennis-eady-originally-published-by-jon-robins-of-the-justice-gap-6th-sept-2013/
Read here http://www.2bedfordrow.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/R-v-Alan-Charlton-and-Idris-Ali.pdf what the CoA judges said about the CCRC’s submissions
Then there’s this nonsense with ‘Carolyn and Nichola’ (one of them purports to support miscarriages of justice) on Swindon radio (from about 112;00) https://m.mixcloud.com/swindon1055/pazzazz-38/ (https://m.mixcloud.com/swindon1055/pazzazz-38/)I've never heard such appalling, misleading and lying bull$hit from morons Walker and Hartley in all my life, although it meant suffering seemingly endless musical din and puerile jabbering of the hosts which preceded it.
I've never heard such appalling, misleading and lying bull$hit from morons Walker and Hartley in all my life, although it meant suffering seemingly endless musical din and puerile jabbering of the hosts which preceded it.
It’s fascinating how Philip Walker has brought one of Bamber’s victims (SC) back to life and how he desperately attempts to rewrite historySuch as having SC lying severely injured after one shot on the kitchen floor then suddenly fleeing upstairs when she heard the TFU battering down the back door. Peter Vanezis put an end to that nonsense when he saw the cs photos and examined her body post mortem.
Such as having SC lying severely injured after one shot on the kitchen floor then suddenly fleeing upstairs when she heard the TFU battering down the back door. Peter Vanezis put an end to that nonsense when he saw the cs photos and examined her body post mortem.
I've never heard such appalling, misleading and lying bull$hit from morons Walker and Hartley in all my life, although it meant suffering seemingly endless musical din and puerile jabbering of the hosts which preceded it.
Has anyone heard that other moron Dennis Eady here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8
Such as having SC lying severely injured after one shot on the kitchen floor then suddenly fleeing upstairs when she heard the TFU battering down the back door. Peter Vanezis put an end to that nonsense when he saw the cs photos and examined her body post mortem.
Holly appears to be keeping a dignified silence.
”The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’..
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee ‘The Murders at White House Farm)
Or is this yet another of those elephants in the room for her like it appears to be for other Bamber supporters
‘Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend
Didn’t Jackie Preece make claim I was Cc?
Speaking of which I’d like to hear from her on Bamber seemingly drug/date raping the girl from the Chequers public house, in the lead up to the murders
And also on the Anji and Virginia Greaves saga
Bamber appears to have excerpted a great deal of control over both sisters - what does Jackie have to say on this?
Or is this yet another of those elephants in the room for her like it appears to be for other Bamber supporters
‘If you pick and choose points, you can stitch them together to make what looks like a compelling narrative, so long a no-one comes along and ruins the story by pointing out all of the"missed out" bits that make a nonsense of it.‘(Source: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg330669.html#msg330669)
The story of Julie M being a ‘scorned women’ was manufactured by the prosecution lawyers, in reality Julie M was in a coercive controlling relationship with Bamber, who was also using these same controlling tactics on other women, and men, including Brett Collins - who it’s quite possible Bamber slept with when Brett first visited the UK
At around 16:22 Brett states,
‘I think something went wrong’
The CCRC appear to be altering how they are putting their statements out into the public domain, compared to past statements made by them on the cases they review
Didn’t Jackie Preece make claim I was Cc?
Speaking of which I’d like to hear from her on Bamber seemingly drug/date raping the girl from the Chequers public house, in the lead up to the murders
And also on the Anji and Virginia Greaves saga
Bamber appears to have excerpted a great deal of control over both sisters - what does Jackie have to say on this?
Or is this yet another of those elephants in the room for her like it appears to be for other Bamber supporters
I don't think anyone really takes any notice of vile Jackie Preece. Her entire "contribution" can be summed up as baseless circular reasoning:
Jeremy Bamber is innocent so Julie Mugford lied > Julie Mugford lied so Jeremy Bamber is innocent. ( repeat ad nauseum )
If she ever had a nuanced thought, she must have kept that to herself while letting her brain fart all over the internet.
I wonder why she isn't on the campaign team come to think of it.. @)(++(*
I don't think anyone really takes any notice of vile Jackie Preece. Her entire "contribution" can be summed up as baseless circular reasoning:
Jeremy Bamber is innocent so Julie Mugford lied > Julie Mugford lied so Jeremy Bamber is innocent. ( repeat ad nauseum )
If she ever had a nuanced thought, she must have kept that to herself while letting her brain fart all over the internet.
Did you hear Dennis Eady?👇
Has anyone heard that other moron Dennis Eady here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzkdH65B-8
Until such time Dennis Eady recognises he was wrong over killer Simon Halls case/campaign/confession (https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2021/12/19/wrongful-convictions-miscarriages-of-justice-innocence-fraud-whats-the-difference/) it unlikely he’ll ever be able to recognise his quite obvious errors and clear bias in other cases
But I don’t suppose Bambers campaign team members recognise this either
Mark Newby, Mike Naughton, Dennis Eady & Glyn Maddocks, Carolyn Hoyle, Carole McCartney and Josephine Hodgson giving evidence at the justice committee 13th Jan 2015
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/21e7258c-2461-4a1f-af60-bbfb885de507
This is how Jane Metcalfe is choosing to attempt to link the ‘Horizon post office scandal’ to Robin Garbutt’s case
Hanksoff03
@hanksoff03
One of the 2 planks of the prosecution case against http://RobinGarbutt.com was he had been stealing cash from their Post Office.PO evidence used at trial against Rob did huge damage. Like victims here, the Melsonby PO computerised records also had shown prolonged cash shortfalls
https://mobile.twitter.com/hanksoff03/status/1269990454885564418
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ (Part 1)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Seema Misra’s Innocence Fraud Part 2 ~ dropping soon..
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ (Part 1)
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Part 2 of ‘Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/29/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-2/
Part 3 dropping shortly
Part 3 of ‘Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/29/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-3/
Part 4
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/
Part 4
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/
Part 5 of Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’
👇
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-5/
Part 7 to follow shortly
⬇️
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/
Part 7
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/07/03/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-7/
Day 1 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2198/2133
Day 2 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2199/2134
Day 3 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2200/2135
Day 4 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2201/2136
Day 5 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2202/2137
Day 6 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2203/2138
Day 7 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2204/2139
Day 8 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2205/2140
Day 9 https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2206/2141
Sentence https://journals.sas.ac.uk/deeslr/article/view/2207/2142
Seems Misra’s convictions were referred to the court of appeal by the criminal cases review commission and overturned on a technicality
More here
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
The court of appeal do not posses the powers to determine factual innocence yet an inquiry led by Wyn Williams appears to have ignored this fact, and has bizarrely proceeded on the basis ex sub-postmasters, like Seema Misra, are actually, factually innocent - the evidence, when looked at in its entirety, shows otherwise
The propaganda in relation to the ‘post office horizon scandal’ has seemingly duped many people not aware of the ‘innocence’ fraud phenomenon
Paul Marshall, who ended up representing Seema Misra, and was almost had up on contempt of court charges, has recently made supplementary submissions, to the post office IT inquiry
Richard Moorhead from Exeter university, has recently blogged on this
👇
https://richardmoorhead.substack.com/p/compensation-questions-fraud
Paul Marshall’s Paragraph 110: here https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-06/Paul%20Marshall%20SUPPLEMENTAL%20Submissions%20on%20Compensation.pdf
Mrs Misra was repeatedly criticised at her trial for not being able to point to problems with the Horizon system. The truth was that she was wholly unable to do so in the absence of the Post Office providing relevant disclosure, which it did not do. (That exposes a fundamental flaw in the Law Commission’s 1997 recommendation11 to parliament that rebuttal of the legal presumption of the reliability of computers should be a straightforward matter.)
111. Mr Clarke concluded that “no meani
The undisclosed bug did not affect Seema Misra’s branch or any branches until 2010
Seema Misra made 135 telephone calls in total to the helpline number from the day she opened the West Byfleet post office , until the day she was suspended in January 2008
Only 3 or 4 of these calls were linked to monies - in Feb 2006
Nick Wallis ~ ‘the human lie detector’ dropping in Part 8
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/
Paul Marshall’s Paragraph 110: here https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-06/Paul%20Marshall%20SUPPLEMENTAL%20Submissions%20on%20Compensation.pdf
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis claims;
It is the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. Hundreds of innocent people prosecuted, ruined, often imprisoned – their lives destroyed.
More on some of Nick Wallis’s deceptive tactics - dropping soon
Nick Wallis ~ ‘the human lie detector’ dropping in Part 8
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal/
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis claims;
It is the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. Hundreds of innocent people prosecuted, ruined, often imprisoned – their lives destroyed.
More on some of Nick Wallis’s deceptive tactics - dropping soon
Hornswoggler Nick Wallis claims;
It is the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. Hundreds of innocent people prosecuted, ruined, often imprisoned – their lives destroyed.
More on some of Nick Wallis’s deceptive tactics - dropping soon
Nick Wallis also won’t tell you about the September 2009 flood at the West Byfleet post office which left Seema Misra having to close her branch for several days
Nick Wallis also omits Nadia, Jared, Ali, Sarah and Tamiko - all key witnesses - and a whole lot more
The grift of this fraud is phenomenal
Ron Warmington ‘a fraud investigator’ (cough) and Ian Henderson of second sight were initially taken on by the post office to carry out an ‘independent’ investigation. Second sight were sacked by the post office in 2015 but have stayed with it ever since
Ron Warrington claimed the ‘..post office has improperly enriched itself’ which I strongly suggest were his projections
https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/12/second-sights-ron-warmington-breaks-his.html
Ian Henderson can be heard here https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/12/second-sights-ron-warmington-breaks-his.html
But Seema Misra claimed she caught ‘illegals’ Nadia and Javed ‘red handed’ many times stealing £89k !?
No Evidence Of Theft If You Ignore The Actual Evidence Of Theft
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/30/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-4/
Part 8 of Hornswoggler Nick Wallis & His ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ ~
‘Nick Wallis The Human Lie Detector’ dropping soon
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
The innocence fraud of embezzler Seema Misra & hornswoggler Nick Wallis’s ‘great post office scandal’ is comparable to the case/campaign of wife killer Robin Garbutt
See Neil Wilby’s blog series on killer Robin Garbutt and his enablers, which also includes a reference to Nick Wallis
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https://neilwilby.com/2020/06/22/dr-truthseeker-loses-her-moral-compass/
‘Hack Nick Wallis and Innocence Fraud’
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/06/25/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-1/
Part 8 ~ Nick Wallis The Human Lie Detector
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/12/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-8/
Part 9 ~ Murderer & MP’s Jump On Nick Wallis’s ‘Great Post Office Scandal’ Bandwagon
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2022/08/13/hornswoggler-nick-wallis-his-great-post-office-scandal-part-9/
Bamber gets a mention in this podcast
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGzKwUlZsMo
29th October 2022
Trudi Benjamin ‘effectively running a campaign’
https://twitter.com/UaInjustice/status/1585177071349026817
29th October 2022
Trudi Benjamin ‘effectively running a campaign’
https://twitter.com/UaInjustice/status/1585177071349026817
I can't believe I missed that, Trudi is an expert on successfully campaigning. Whether it's baking murder cakes or tasteful graveside readings, she knows how to avoid ridicule!
Mind you, Yvonne Hartley has released a million repetitive and unlistenable podcasts that reach an audience of dozens so it's hard to say who is the best campaigner, I wonder if Jezza has a favourite?
Ellie's Aunt Sally is back on the beat... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992pWDxlJqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992pWDxlJqw)Episode 1 has landed... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYRNlHqjOaA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYRNlHqjOaA)
Let the clutching at ever-decreasing straws continue...Philip Boyce is the same person who used a cut-down version of an Anschutz 525 in a MWT TV prog. to demonstrate that the burn marks on NB's back could have been the product of a hot end of its muzzle. So much for like-for-like scientific accuracy!...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html)
Let the clutching at ever-decreasing straws continue...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11473281/White-House-Farm-murders-Scientist-claims-police-moved-body-official-snaps-taken.html)
Errr what? Is Boyce now disavowing his own scientific pig skin blowtorch experiment?
But the tests led Mr Boyce to conclude that the body was left lying against an Aga after the shooting and its handles caused the burns.
So, the police moved NB from the aga and decided to balance him on an upturned chair with his pants pulled down, just for kicks probably.. Or was it a satanic ritual ordered by their masters at the lodge? Or did Sheila help them do it before officer Firstday accidentally shot her twice in the throat while the theme from Benny Hill played?
Innocence fraud gravy train jumper Matt HarrisBigging himself up and full of hot air! Why the hell was it shown on German TV when the case has nothing to do with them whatsoever?
”If you seen the dramas and documentaries then forget everything you’ve heard and think you know. This is going to be shown as the worst miscarriage of justice in English history.
https://matt.film/jeremy-bamber-news-documentary/ (https://matt.film/jeremy-bamber-news-documentary/)
Errr what? Is Boyce now disavowing his own scientific pig skin blowtorch experiment?
But the tests led Mr Boyce to conclude that the body was left lying against an Aga after the shooting and its handles caused the burns.
So, the police moved NB from the aga and decided to balance him on an upturned chair with his pants pulled down, just for kicks probably.. Or was it a satanic ritual ordered by their masters at the lodge? Or did Sheila help them do it before officer Firstday accidentally shot her twice in the throat while the theme from Benny Hill played?
Bigging himself up and full of hot air! Why the hell was it shown on German TV when the case has nothing to do with them whatsoever?The CCRC or CoA are not going to be easily fooled by Boyce's pigskin BS and Nevill Bamber lying on his right side with his back up against the AGA either. There would be no reason for Essex Police to move and balance NB's body precariously on the back of a wooden chair with his head in a coal scuttle onto which he bled out. Besides, the last four bullets that killed him were fired from above into the top and right side of his head whilst in that position, as noted by Peter Vanezis, who also stated that livor mortis/hypostasis was consistent with the position in which he was found, and so must have set in several hours before the TFU broke into the farmhouse...
Bigging himself up and full of hot air! Why the hell was it shown on German TV when the case has nothing to do with them whatsoever?
Matt Harris ~It will never be referred... the CCRC know all too well when they're being conned.
“Working closely with Jeremy's campaign team and Jeremy himself, we’ve uncovered and documented new evidence which categorically proves the conviction is unsafe
This new evidence has been submitted to the CCRC and we are now at the stage of waiting for a referral to the Court of Appeal.”
It will never be referred... the CCRC know all too well when they're being conned.
It could well be referredThey were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...
The CCRC are a fraudulent organisation who work for guilty killers, rapists, terrorists and other types of convicted criminals
Many people who work for the CCRC are as deceitful as some of the characters who’s convictions they ‘review’
The CCRC have spent many years (and a lot of money) on this dangerous psychopath, and have already referred his convictions to the COA in the past.
And the CCRC was set up on the back of mass murderers like Jeremy Bamber - these types of killers are their bread and butter
If the CCRC can find something to pass their idea of the ‘real possibility test’, they will refer his convictions
They were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...
https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/ (https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/)
They were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...
https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/ (https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/)
They were spot on with Robin Garbutt recently...
https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/ (https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/no-grounds-to-refer-murder-case-back-to-the-court-of-appeal/)
And this
“Much of Mr Garbutt’s application to the CCRC focused on the Post Office Horizon scandal, which has led to a number of fraud and theft convictions of former Post Office workers being overturned, many after referral by the CCRC
If you ‘review’ embezzler and fraudster Seema Misra trial transcripts, her Horizon IT system (at her West Byfleet post office) was not affected by any alleged bugs but the frauds at the CCRC referred her murder conviction to the court of appeal anyway http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/the-horizon-postofficescandal-innocence-fraud-gravy-train-scam-hornswoggler-nick-wallis-embezzler-seema-misra/
This fraudster (Seema Misra) who claimed she caught “illegals” Nadia and Javed ‘RED HANDED’ stealing £89,000.00 from her post office has gone on to push for the arrest and imprisonment of a witness who gave evidence against her on behalf of Fujitsu
Gareth Jenkins - read all the trial transcripts
Embezzler and fraudster Seema Misra jumped on the bandwagon of a handful of other sub-postmistresses and sub-postmasters who had claimed there was something wrong with the Horizon IT system - as opposed to them thieving from their post offices
Fraudster Seema claimed she went online the night before her trial began and found an article about these others former post officer workers by Rebecca Thomson
It was at this point Seema Misra suggested computer problems were responsible for her (and I strongly suspect her husband) embezzlement/thefts
Have these people fallen down their own rabbit holes or are they fundamentally dishonest souls intent on deceiving others as well as themselves?
£10 a throw to listen to money for old rope ?!!! I'll give it a miss, Thanks.
Seen Richard McCann talk before and he's worth more than a tenner but MWT should be paying the audience!!And Gemma Whelan on how she felt portraying Essex firebrand sleuth "Miss Marple"!
I was instantly reminded of this other breathtakingly made up passage that Bill Robertson dared to put his name to recently:
https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/jeremy-bamber-case-why-has-he-ccrc-failed-to-consider-the-dickinson-review-for-27-years
Are Helen Pitcher & The Criminal Cases Review Commission Using Their ‘Special Powers’ To Act Outside Of The Existing UK Criminal Justice System & Attempting To Frame An Innocent Man For Andrew Malkinson’s Rape In The Process? (Part 1)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/11/are-helen-pitcher-the-criminal-cases-review-commission-using-their-special-powers-to-act-outside-of-the-existing-uk-criminal-justice-system-attempting-to-frame-an-innocen/
Bill Robertson ~ CCRC Chairman Helen Pitcher blusters and embellishes over the case of Andy Malkinson
Part 3 - The Morphing Of Rapist & Passport Fraudster Andrew Malkinson’s Story - Beginning With The Claim His Rape “Never Happened” To Naming Someone ElseRe: innocence fraudster Bob Woffinden from the above blog on violent rapist, fraudster & parasitic predator Andrew Malkinson
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/12/the-morphing-of-rapist-passport-fraudster-andrew-malkinsons-story-beginning-with-the-claim-his-rape-never-happened-to-backtracking-that-someone-else-did-it-part-3/
TIMELINE: The Rebranding Of Dangerous, Deceptive Rapist & Predator Andrew Malkinson, Who Went From Claiming “Mistaken Identity” To Pretending His VICTIM Wasn’t Raped & She Had Made It Up, Counting His Compensation Money, INUK & Emily BoltonThe Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Deceptive, Gaslighting Fraudster Andrew Malkinson & How He Went On The Run After Learning His Victim Was Helping Police Compile An E-Fit (Part 6)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/14/timeline-the-rebranding-of-dangerous-deceptive-rapist-predator-andrew-malkinson-who-went-from-claiming-mistaken-identity-to-pretending-his-victim-wasnt-raped/
The Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Deceptive, Gaslighting Fraudster Andrew Malkinson & How He Went On The Run After Learning His Victim Was Helping Police Compile An E-Fit (Part 6)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/the-violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-deceptive-gaslighting-fraudster-andrew-malkinson-how-he-went-on-the-run-after-learning-his-victim-was-helping-police-compile-an-e-fit-part-8/
Bill Robertson on violent rapist Andrew Malkinson
“Sixthly, there was the clothing. The witnesses were agreed that the man was wearing ‘smart’ black trousers, ‘smart’ black shoes and a ‘very smart’ shirt. Malkinson did not possess, and had never possessed, clothing of that kind.
What did he wear to work Bill?
What Happened To Violent Rapist, Convicted Fraudster & Parasitic Predator Andrew Malkinson’s Security Guard Clothing, Dark Work Boots & “Stab Proof Vest” & “Jungle Fever” & Those “Small, Bright Red Insect Bites, Similar To Measles” (Part 7)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/what-happened-to-violent-rapist-convicted-fraudster-parasitic-predator-andrew-malkinsons-security-guard-clothing-his-stab-proof-vest-part-7/
Did Violent Rapist Andrew Malkinson Make A Subliminal Confession To His Crimes During A TV Interview? (Part 8)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/15/did-violent-rapist-andrew-malkinson-make-a-subliminal-confession-to-his-crimes-in-april-2021-part-8/
Violent Rapist Andrew Malkinson, How Undated Circumstantial DNA Won’t Prove His ‘Innocence’ & Why Deluded Emily Dugan Won’t Address What Happened To The Clothes & Footwear He Wore When He Worked As A Security Guard At The Ellesmere Shopping Centre (Part 9)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/17/violent-rapist-andrew-malkinson-how-undated-circumstantial-dna-wont-prove-his-innocence-why-the-sex-offender-deluded-emily-dugan-wont-address-what/
Violent Rapist & Forensically Aware Fraudster Andrew Malkinson’s Deception Knows No Bounds & Why He Wasn’t Proud To Be A STRUGNELL (Part 10)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/18/violent-rapist-forensically-aware-fraudster-andrew-malkinsons-deception-knows-no-bounds-why-he-wasnt-proud-to-be-a-strugnell-part-10/
Bob Woffinden, Emily Dugan & Will Roe’s Version Of Events. Violent Rapist, Fraudster & ‘Holiday Psycho’ Andrew Malkinson’s Version Of Events & The Rebranding Of A Dangerous Sex Offender & How He Continues To Get ‘Caught In The Lie’ & How His Stories Still Don’t Add Up (Part 11)
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https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/18/bob-woffinden-emily-dugan-will-roes-version-of-events-violent-rapist-fraudster-holiday-psycho-andrew-malkinsons-aka-andrew-strugnell-version-of-eve/
Hypocrite Neal Keeling & His Memory Verses The Memory Of Violent Rapist & Former Amateur Boxer Andrew Malkinson’s Victim (Part 12)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/19/hypocrite-neal-keeling-his-memory-verses-the-memory-of-violent-rapist-andrew-malkinsons-victim-part-12/
Violent Rapist, Parasitic Predator & Former Amateur Boxer & ‘Holiday Psycho’ Andrew Malkinson & Clive Stafford-Smith On Emily Dugan (Part 13)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/19/violent-rapist-parasitic-predator-former-amateur-boxer-andrew-malkinson-clive-stafford-smith-on-emily-dugan-part-13/
Monitoring By MAPPA After Seventeen Years & Is Emily Dugan Gaslighting Or Does She Really Not Recognise The Red Flags Re: Violent Rapist & Sex Offender Andrew Malkinson? (Part 14)
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http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/20/monitoring-by-mappa-after-seventeen-years-is-emily-dugan-gaslighting-or-does-she-really-not-recognise-the-red-flags-re-violent-rapist-sex-offender-andrew-malkinson-part-14/
I've read some conspiratorial twaddle on blue over the years and thought that might have diminished or even disappeared with the demise of Mike Teskowski... Not a chance!
We have someone claiming that the TFU moved June Bamber's body from the floor to the bed after they'd shot her so that her blood wouldn't stain the carpet, wrapped her in an electric blanket (which he insists is on the floor by the bed) to hasten livor/rigor mortis no less! LOL! To complete their devious task they moved her to the doorway and shot her again between the eyes! Pure fantasy, no less.
That's a floral-pattern duvet+cover (or eiderdown) on the floor not an electric blanket, which is still in the bed, underneath the white, heavily bloodstained sheet/duvet which the Bambers slept directly on top of. In other words, an electric underblanket which could be switched on to air the bed for a period before getting in, much like this more recent model. Note the similar way the control switch hangs from a cable connected to the blanket...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEBufYObxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEBufYObxk)
https://www.mediafire.com/view/xqh1nnvfbct6ubl/WHF_Electric_Underblanket.png/file# (https://www.mediafire.com/view/xqh1nnvfbct6ubl/WHF_Electric_Underblanket.png/file#)
A thin electric supply cable (1) goes from a plug in the wall/skirting socket directly to the on-off switch/temperature control (2) which is dangling from a slightly thicker cable (3) leading up to the underblanket in bed. There is NO connection to the duvet on the floor, the first cable (1) is simply curled round and hidden underneath it.
Isn't that so, Caroline?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another with abysmal observational skills makes outrageous claims of numerous invented cuts/bruises on Sheila Caffell's arm which even a novice student pathologist would identify as runs of blood ending in blobs which spurted from her two neck wounds as she was shot, all of which had dried up and cracked by the time her body was discovered. None of these 'wounds' were identified and noted as such by Peter Vanezis, the pathologist, but then of course it's easy but groundless and ludicrous to accuse him of taking part in a police cover-up and conspiracy.
He then insists that a sharply-angled casing deflector on the rifle caused a similarly-shaped 'wound' on her right hand. Why then juxtapose a photo of the latter with one of an Anschutz 520, which had a differently-shaped deflector and smaller ejection port than the later Anschutz 525 model used in the WHF murders?
The 525 had a round-edged deflector fixed with two screws in a different position to the 520 and a larger ejection port to reduce the occurrence of stovepipe jams, and couldn't possible have caused such an angular 'wound' as claimed.
Relevant photos attached...
Like you, I've had similar but short term use of an AGA, although more familiar with the poor woman's Rayburn version, both of which were solid fuel/anthracite/phurnacite-powered. Neither of them had ash-pit door handles/fasteners which would get anywhere near hot enough to cause burns. The WHF AGA may even have been turned to its lowest gimcrack setting mid-August.
Not forgetting the burns caused by positioning Nevill against the Aga.
Just to make things clear, APRIL... I'm 99.9% sure that the Boyce AGA is an older solid-fuel type which has been converted to use domestic oil only, supplied from an external tank. The giveaway is the black control box and an 8 or 10 mm. diameter oil supply pipe (painted white to match the skirting) on the right-hand side. There's also a fine capillary tube leading to a hidden copper phial within the air intake grill on the left-hand side which will register changes in temperature. This tube will run under the AGA to connect with the control box on the right. Old solid-fuel AGAs weren't so sophisticated and only had a gimcrack mechanical shutter to adjust air flow and thus temperature using a hand-operated control lever higher up on the left.
Not forgetting the burns caused by positioning Nevill against the Aga.
All of it originating from JB? Certainly the 6 minutes I managed to listen to, did. Can't vouch for the rest. I gave up. Will go back and listen to what Jo has to say when I've regained my strength!Much too brief to cover this case in any depth. Peter Bleksley should have invited Chris Bews and Michael West, instead of a psychologist who I've never heard of, to counter the repetitive old guff from Philip Walker.
I understand she had something relevant to say about narcissistic behaviours which might be worth listening too, but I doubt it's anything new.Blimey, she's had a makeover!... https://www.johemmings.co.uk/ (https://www.johemmings.co.uk/)
More groundless BS from two of Bamber's campaign team...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV)
Blimey, she's had a makeover!... https://www.johemmings.co.uk/ (https://www.johemmings.co.uk/)
More groundless BS from two of Bamber's campaign team...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h3K-d-Rpd4&ab_channel=TalkTV)
Did you see the way Philip Walker looked at Matt Harris when he referred to the “3:26 call”Can't say I noticed that much of a difference... he's always po-faced.
David Hender back after a two year absence, being seduced by yet more of Bamber's chicanery...
https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/)
https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/)
One of JB's secret, up until now, supporters to the tune of £££££££'s. Has Hender taken over funding from one-time member Daisy?
Mmm. First prize for pukeworthiness, d'ya think?
One of JB's secret, up until now, supporters to the tune of £££££££'s. Has Hender taken over funding from one-time member Daisy?
David Hender back after a two year absence, being seduced by yet more of Bamber's chicanery...
https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/05/jeremy-bamber-is-totally-innocent/)
https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/ (https://davidhender.life/2024/04/07/jeremy-bamber-email-to-talk-tv-peter-bleksley-et-all/)
All I have to say is .....At least his Bamber correspondence isn't for sale (not yet anyway), unlike Nilsen's aluminium pots and pans ingrained with ancient bits of human fat and flesh...
At least his Bamber correspondence isn't for sale (not yet anyway), unlike Nilsen's aluminium pots and pans ingrained with ancient bits of human fat and flesh...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serial-killer-dennis-nilsens-curry-26564381 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serial-killer-dennis-nilsens-curry-26564381)
Someone's made a killing on his Muswell Hill house though - sold for around £490,000 in 2016 , now being converted into a £1.5 million family home...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12072641/Dennis-Nilsens-London-lair-1-48M-family-home.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12072641/Dennis-Nilsens-London-lair-1-48M-family-home.html)
I saw that article about Neilson's pans - they aren't even non-stick @)(++(* - *%^^&David Boutflour is on record that he was surprised his sister could live at WHF. But I think he's a more emotional character than hard-as-nails Ann Eaton who wouldn't be afraid of the odd spirit floating around at midnight.
I would have thought the Muswell Hill dump would have been flattened. Some say the same about WHF. Personally, I couldn't live in either!
David Boutflour is on record that he was surprised his sister could live at WHF. But I think he's a more emotional character than hard-as-nails Ann Eaton who wouldn't be afraid of the odd spirit floating around at midnight.
Him and me both! Although if walls could speak!Or Crispy's ghost could yap and point his paw at a pic of the culprit!
Or Crispy's ghost could yap and point his paw at a pic of the culprit!