-
It's easy to say I've got a theory but how many can stand up to scrutiny where all the pieces fit together?
-
It's easy to say I've got a theory but how many can stand up to scrutiny where all the pieces fit together?
Yours hasnt
-
Yours hasnt
Hasn't what?
-
Hasn't what?
Hasn't stood up to scrutiny
-
Johns theory... Also Angelos
Maddie left the apartment by the front door and was abducted on the street.
-
I think ‘hypothesis’ is a better description in this case.
“The Difference Between Hypothesis and Theory
A hypothesis is an assumption, an idea that is proposed for the sake of argument so that it can be tested to see if it might be true. In the scientific method, the hypothesis is constructed before any applicable research has been done, apart from a basic background review. You ask a question, read up on what has been studied before, and then form a hypothesis. A hypothesis is usually tentative; it's an assumption or suggestion made strictly for the objective of being tested.
A theory, in contrast, is a principle that has been formed as an attempt to explain things that have already been substantiated by data. Because of the rigors of experimentation and control, it is understood to be more likely to be true than a hypothesis is” (Merriam-Webster dictionary).
-
I think ‘hypothesis’ is a better description in this case.
“The Difference Between Hypothesis and Theory
A hypothesis is an assumption, an idea that is proposed for the sake of argument so that it can be tested to see if it might be true. In the scientific method, the hypothesis is constructed before any applicable research has been done, apart from a basic background review. You ask a question, read up on what has been studied before, and then form a hypothesis. A hypothesis is usually tentative; it's an assumption or suggestion made strictly for the objective of being tested.
A theory, in contrast, is a principle that has been formed as an attempt to explain things that have already been substantiated by data. Because of the rigors of experimentation and control, it is understood to be more likely to be true than a hypothesis is” (Merriam-Webster dictionary).
Holly reckons she's solved it so hypothesis doesn't fit at all
-
Johns theory... Also Angelos
Maddie left the apartment by the front door and was abducted on the street.
But that's their theory not mine.
I'll ask the question again will you accept John and Myster as individual impartial judges on my theory?
-
But that's their theory not mine.
I'll ask the question again will you accept John and Myster as individual impartial judges on my theory?
Absolutely not... Why should I
John has a different theory... Which I don't agree with
-
But that's their theory not mine.
I'll ask the question again will you accept John and Myster as individual impartial judges on my theory?
Yes
-
Absolutely not... Why should I
John has a different theory... Which I don't agree with
We're not talking about John's theory and we're not talking about John alone but John and Myster to review my theory?
-
Yes
Good, thanks.
I think most will have already seen Myster is bipartisan in that he concluded the fingerprint did actually originate from GNR officer Nelson da Costa and not my abductor suspect as I speculated.
-
We're not talking about John's theory and we're not talking about John alone but John and Myster to review my theory?
Let them review it. If John says this is sensational ...incredible... Obviously I would be impressed.
The fact is you told OG your theory at least two months ago and nothings happened... Why
-
I think ‘hypothesis’ is a better description in this case.
“The Difference Between Hypothesis and Theory
A hypothesis is an assumption, an idea that is proposed for the sake of argument so that it can be tested to see if it might be true. In the scientific method, the hypothesis is constructed before any applicable research has been done, apart from a basic background review. You ask a question, read up on what has been studied before, and then form a hypothesis. A hypothesis is usually tentative; it's an assumption or suggestion made strictly for the objective of being tested.
A theory, in contrast, is a principle that has been formed as an attempt to explain things that have already been substantiated by data. Because of the rigors of experimentation and control, it is understood to be more likely to be true than a hypothesis is” (Merriam-Webster dictionary).
I'm pretty sure I've heard police officers, not just in this case but others too, refer to hypothesising and theories about what happened and who was involved.
-
Let them review it. If John says this is sensational ...incredible... Obviously I would be impressed.
The fact is you told OG your theory at least two months ago and nothings happened... Why
Just suppose for this argument's sake,Holly's theory had some standing,what would you in the short term expect of OG?
-
Just suppose for this argument's sake,Holly's theory had some standing,what would you in the short term expect of OG?
It's a valid point. At this stage, after so many years and so much money spent, if it found that all parties were somehow incompetent, then a massive cover up would need to be instigated to ensure all arses were suitably covered, then a scapegoat identified - these thing take time.
There's no way SY would trot out that Holly went and solved the thing from an armchair while they, with all of the collective, multi-country resources, failed so palpably.
-
It's a valid point. At this stage, after so many years and so much money spent, if it found that all parties were somehow incompetent, then a massive cover up would need to be instigated to ensure all arses were suitably covered, then a scapegoat identified - these thing take time.
There's no way SY would trot out that Holly went and solved the thing from an armchair while they, with all of the collective, multi-country resources, failed so palpably.
what absolute tosh....more [ censored word ]...so when hollys theory is ignored its because SY want a cover up.
From what I can see holly thinks maddie is still alive...abducted but a kind couple...other guests and bought up as their own daughter,.She has also given the name. Would teh mccanns also ignore the fact that maddie is still alive and its known who she is with...utter tosh
if hollys theory is true why havent SY made an effort to recover her in the past 2 and a half months
-
I'm pretty sure I've heard police officers, not just in this case but others too, refer to hypothesising and theories about what happened and who was involved.
Usually based on in depth knowledge of all the known facts, evidence and intelligence. Is there anyone on the forum who fits that bill?
-
what absolute tosh....more [ censored word ]...so when hollys theory is ignored its because SY want a cover up.
From what I can see holly thinks maddie is still alive...abducted but a kind couple...other guests and bought up as their own daughter,.She has also given the name. Would teh mccanns also ignore the fact that maddie is still alive and its known who she is with...utter tosh
if hollys theory is true why havent SY made an effort to recover her in the past 2 and a half months
Jesus Davros. A bit over the top innit?
I weep for the future of polite discourse.
-
Usually based on in depth knowledge of all the known facts, evidence and intelligence. Is there anyone on the forum who fits that bill?
No.
-
Jesus Davros. A bit over the top innit?
I weep for the future of polite discourse.
Sorry... I didn't think you would be offended by the word tosh... There's me thinking you were one of the lads
-
Just for this argument's sake,Holly's theory had some standing,what would you in the short term expect of OG?
I know your question was directed at davel, but what I would expect them to do, if it is plausible, say nothing to Holly but to investigate and then if it turns out she is right, arrest solve the case, report to the public and give thanks to Holly in their reports on tv and other media.
-
Usually based on in depth knowledge of all the known facts, evidence and intelligence. Is there anyone on the forum who fits that bill?
In this particular case, due to Portuguese law, we have much of the material. It is possible for someone such as myself ie no professional involvement to seize on pieces and connect them to form a different picture if you will.
Police investigations often call high profile cases wrong whether it be actual miscarriages of justice, or the likes of Sutcliffe going on to commit more crimes having been interviewed and eliminated or poor Colin Stagg.
-
I know your question was directed at davel, but what I would expect them to do, if it is plausible, say nothing to Holly but to investigate and then if it turns out she is right, arrest solve the case, report to the public and give thanks to Holly in their reports on tv and other media.
Just imagine the accolades bestowed upon our senior investigator - a thorough going over by Andrew Marr, invitation to lunch with Her Maj and subsequent Damehood, free TV makeovers, Nike running shoe sponsorship, lifetime Man U. managerial appointment (once Ole gets the boot), resident slot on "Loose Women", the list is endless...
-
In this particular case, due to Portuguese law, we have much of the material. It is possible for someone such as myself ie no professional involvement to seize on pieces and connect them to form a different picture if you will.
Police investigations often call high profile cases wrong whether it be actual miscarriages of justice, or the likes of Sutcliffe going on to commit more crimes having been interviewed and eliminated or poor Colin Stagg.
As I've said over and over... We can all come up with a solution but you claim to have found the solution... That's, what I find more than a little riduculous
-
Just imagine the accolades bestowed upon our senior investigator - a thorough going over by Andrew Marr, invitation to lunch with Her Maj and subsequent Damehood, free TV makeovers, Nike running shoe sponsorship, lifetime Man U. managerial appointment (once Ole gets the boot), resident slot on "Loose Women", the list is endless...
Yes.... Sounds ridiculous doesn't it
-
I know your question was directed at davel, but what I would expect them to do, if it is plausible, say nothing to Holly but to investigate and then if it turns out she is right, arrest solve the case, report to the public and give thanks to Holly in their reports on tv and other media.
I doubt they would publicly thank a named individual but thank the public as a whole.
-
Yes.... Sounds ridiculous doesn't it
I wish Holly had solved it... I really do, but can't see arrests being made anytime soon.
-
I wish Holly had solved it... I really do, but can't see arrests being made anytime soon.
You don't know what it is yet 8)><(
-
I doubt they would publicly thank a named individual but thank the public as a whole.
Yes they might just say a member of the public was able to provide some useful info.
-
Just imagine the accolades bestowed upon our senior investigator - a thorough going over by Andrew Marr, invitation to lunch with Her Maj and subsequent Damehood, free TV makeovers, Nike running shoe sponsorship, lifetime Man U. managerial appointment (once Ole gets the boot), resident slot on "Loose Women", the list is endless...
And think what a platform it would give me to spout on about Bamber 8)--))
-
And think what a platform it would give me to spout on about Bamber 8)--))
Yes, but you were mistaken about that too, dearest! 8**8:/:
-
Yes, but you were mistaken about that too, dearest! 8**8:/:
As it stands in the eyes of the law Bamber is guilty yes but it remains to be seen whether or not his conviction based on 20th century forensics will withstand scrutiny based on 21st century forensics.
Now we're both going to seriously upset the McCannics by Bambering on here!
-
As it stands in the eyes of the law Bamber is guilty yes but it remains to be seen whether or not his conviction based on 20th century forensics will withstand scrutiny based on 21st century forensics.
Now we're both going to seriously upset the McCannics by Bambering on here!
No, No. Do carry on. I bailed out of The Bamber Forum because it scared me witless when I said I thought he could be Innocent.
This Forum is much easier to deal with.
-
No, No. Do carry on. I bailed out of The Bamber Forum because it scared me witless when I said I thought he could be Innocent.
This Forum is much easier to deal with.
Yes the Bamber board was quite a scary place at times if your were in the minority of pro innocence. I was forced to up my game especially with a certain member from across the pond 8(>(( ?>)()<
-
Yes the Bamber board was quite a scary place at times if your were in the minority of pro innocence. I was forced to up my game especially with a certain member from across the pond 8(>(( ?>)()<
I used to get frantic PMs from some members to go and sort them out because I was the only Moderator on the whole Board at the time.
Tim Whatsisname wasn't amused.
-
I know your question was directed at davel, but what I would expect them to do, if it is plausible, say nothing to Holly but to investigate and then if it turns out she is right, arrest solve the case, report to the public and give thanks to Holly in their reports on tv and other media.
They wouldn’t have to acknowledge Holly at all, unless She has copyright over her theory.
-
As it stands in the eyes of the law Bamber is guilty yes but it remains to be seen whether or not his conviction based on 20th century forensics will withstand scrutiny based on 21st century forensics.
Now we're both going to seriously upset the McCannics by Bambering on here!
You're not... Just because a court finds someone guilty doesn't make them guilty... As in the cipriano case... It's important to look at the evidence
-
Yes they might just say a member of the public was able to provide some useful info.
I'm sure, the press would find out... Absolutely sure
-
Topic please... Any further off topic posts will be, removed on sight
Aye, Aye Cap'n. 8(8-))
-
Topic please... Any further off topic posts will be, removed on sight
Snort!
-
“I'm pretty sure I've heard police officers, not just in this case but others too, refer to hypothesising and theories about what happened and who was involved”.
Miss Taken Identity once pointed out to me that in Madeleine’s case none of us know what the crime is that has been committed. All we know is that Madeleine is missing. True and valuable words to keep in mind.
-
“I'm pretty sure I've heard police officers, not just in this case but others too, refer to hypothesising and theories about what happened and who was involved”.
Miss Taken Identity once pointed out to me that in Madeleine’s case none of us know what the crime is that has been committed. All we know is that Madeleine is missing. True and valuable words to keep in mind.
We know a lot.. lot more than that. ...so a poor synopsis of where we are now imo
-
Hi Davel, how is it that you know a lot more besides the fact that Madeleine is missing? I would think that if there was more information out there, the case would after 12 years, not still be on-going.
-
Hi Davel, how is it that you know a lot more besides the fact that Madeleine is missing? I would think that if there was more information out there, the case would after 12 years, not still be on-going.
we know there is no evidence to implicate the mccanns...and lots lots more...to say all we know is that madeleine is missing is totally absurd
-
Hi Davel, how is it that you know a lot more besides the fact that Madeleine is missing? I would think that if there was more information out there, the case would after 12 years, not still be on-going.
The PJ actually said there is not enough evidence. Davel doesn't know any more than they do! he likes to play that card.- best to ignore it if he doesn't show us his evidence. and believing is not evidence.
They have not confirmed MBM was abducted by a stranger- they have not RULED OUT parental involvement!
My words still stand- no none knows what crime has been committed except the prep/s.
-
Davel, can you please indicate what you mean? I appreciate what is contained in the PJ files, but there is no conclusive evidence as to what happened to Madeleine.
-
The PJ actually said there is not enough evidence. Davel doesn't know any more than they do! he likes to play that card.- best to ignore it if he doesn't show us his evidence. and believing is not evidence.
They have not confirmed MBM was abducted by a stranger- they have not RULED OUT parental involvement!
My words still stand- no none knows what crime has been committed except the prep/s.
The head of the Pj said the mccanns are not suspects and there was no evidence against them. Do i need to provide the cite yet again. The archiving report said woke and wandered was highly unlikely.....SY said however maddie left the apertment she was abducted...
you can ignore all that evidence if you wish
-
Davel, can you please indicate what you mean? I appreciate what is contained in the PJ files, but there is no conclusive evidence as to what happened to Madeleine.
there is lots of evidence.
There are three options...abduction...woke and wandered...parental involvement.
h no evidence against the aprents and evidence of non involvement then the chancesre slim to zero of parental involvement
The archiving report said woke and wanderd highly unlikely..
If both those scenarios are highly unlikely then abduction has to be highly likely
-
The head of the Pj said the mccanns are not suspects and there was no evidence against them. Do i need to provide the cite yet again. The archiving report said woke and wandered was highly unlikely.....SY said however maddie left the apertment she was abducted...
you can ignore all that evidence if you wish
Yes, but Davel, no evidence agianst them for doing what? what crime did they cite? SY have moved along and said recently that they are looking at other scenarios. I think there is a thread about it...
-
Yes, but Davel, no evidence agianst them for doing what? what crime did they cite? SY have moved along and said recently that they are looking at other scenarios. I think there is a thread about it...
I think you are ignoring all the evidence
-
Yes, but Davel, no evidence agianst them for doing what? what crime did they cite? SY have moved along and said recently that they are looking at other scenarios. I think there is a thread about it...
Hiding their child’s body! Have you not been following this case closely?
-
A good theory is one that is plausible and logical and fits with all the known facts. A bad theory is one that is complex, relies on at least one conspiracy if not more, is not plausible, contains too many illogical suppositions all in order to accommodate the known facts.
All IMO.
-
They wouldn’t have to acknowledge Holly at all, unless She has copyright over her theory.
Of course I have copyright over my theory.
-
Of course I have copyright over my theory.
You do?? So if the case is solved using your theory and you don’t get a credit will you sue?
-
I have removed 5 pages of off-topic posts which should have been moderated in the first place. In future please post comments relative to the subject matter of the thread. TY
-
If anyone is interested, I can share some of Luiz Moreno’s theory here. He did not publish it on the internet but sent it to persons who wanted to know more, during June this year. I did a google translate of the document but which may not be completely accurate.
-
If anyone is interested, I can share some of Luiz Moreno’s theory here. He did not publish it on the internet but sent it to persons who wanted to know more, during June this year. I did a google translate of the document but which may not be completely accurate.
Sounds like a good idea to me. On topic even!
-
Hi Rob, me too. I think she is too old.
-
I only notice now the text is also not in sequence. I’ll try and send in another format.
The best I can say about it is that his research indicates to his satisfaction that Madeleine is alive although I am a bit concerned about the apparent "stalking" Olga by a private individual.
Another format would be great Anthro I think Sadie would find it tiresome as it is at present and I'm sure she would have an opinion for discussion.
I tried to copy the English into Word but failed miserably; the photos are self explanatory ... but why I wonder has the child covered her face in the skiing one.
-
This is supposed to be MM riding piggyback in Amsterdam. Deluded or what?!!!
In Moreno's words...
Check out this sequence of photos taken from the video, where Olga appears on her bike with Madeleine Mccann, important to remind everyone, that the video corresponds to the date of May 6, 2011, at this time Madeleine Mccann was 8 years old
This video is part of the London police investigation, and what is most surprising, here, in the sequence of the video, we can see the presence of Operation Grange, SCOTLAND YARD police from England, photographing Madeleine Mccann, I repeat this , the police, instead of grabbing the kidnapper Olga, simply let the opportunity pass,
Watch the video from 0.13 seconds to 0.18 seconds, there appear Olga taking Madeleine mccann to a school in Amsterdam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3eujCh6TNM&t=13s
-
This is the younger version of the same girl (I don’t know if I may give her name), compared to Madeleine.
-
Doesn't seem to have improved her make-up application skills over the years.
-
Some more pictures (of the girl) from his fb profile, which has since been removed.
-
Some more pictures (of the girl) from his fb profile, which has since been removed.
I'm comparing the images not so much with Madeleine but trying more to think of Kate and Gerry and they're not ringing any bells for me.
Sadie has an expertise in this, it will be interesting to see what she thinks of it but for me it is thumbs down.
-
I agree Brietta. I think the girl is too old to be 16. Sadie’s input should be interesting and informative. Here are some comparisons to the McCanns.
-
Also, the mouths in post#83 look similar?
-
Please note that we are interested in original thinking here and not pages of old stuff rehashed. This is spamming and contrary to the forum rules.
-
Please note that we are interested in original thinking here and not pages of old stuff rehashed. This is spamming and contrary to the forum rules.
My bad.
Anthro did wonder if posting it was appropriate and I encouraged her.
-
Hi Angelo, I am not aware that this particular theory has been discussed in its entirety on the forum. Also, the theory has only been released during May 2019 which makes it current. Original thinking? Perhaps Mr Moreno deserves some credit for his research over the past 10 years. He also gave his consent for me to share his theory.
-
So these are Moreno's new photos of MM. Absolute madness...
-
So these are Moreno's new photos of MM. Absolute madness...
I think Holly's theory is, absolute madness but there, seems no restriction on her posting it
-
These are Moreno’s photos and the unauthorised age-progression picture of Madeleine, aged 16.
-
Looks like MM's Dutch eye surgeon also removed the coloboma whilst correcting her myopia.
-
So these are Moreno's new photos of MM. Absolute madness...
this girl has quite a large nose that neither gerry or kate have
-
These are Moreno’s photos and the unauthorised age-progression picture of Madeleine, aged 16.
Do you think it's ethical to display these photographs on a publicly accessible forum?
-
I feel these would be better behind closed doors, but I suppose this guy, whoever he is, has trawled Facebook or similar for these images, so they will already be in the public domain.
-
‘... so they will already be in the public domain’.
Correct. The girl is on facebook, so is the woman implicated by him. The girl has since changed her privacy settings. Moreno has +- 3500 followers on his page, so people share what he puts on his wall. His plea is that authorities rule her out/in.
G-unit, I did ask his consent. So, no I do not regard it as being unethical. In fact, your question may equally apply to members posting innuendos and pictures of Gerry McCann as being Smithman (?)
-
‘... so they will already be in the public domain’.
Correct. The girl is on facebook, so is the woman implicated by him. The girl has since changed her privacy settings. Moreno has +- 3500 followers on his page, so people share what he puts on his wall. His plea is that authorities rule her out/in.
G-unit, I did ask his consent. So, no I do not regard it as being unethical. In fact, your question may equally apply to members posting innuendos and pictures of Gerry McCann as being Smithman (?)
It ha been claimed that once Madeleine reached 16, she would be able to search her history out on line.
Doesn't sound as if this girl is interested, even though she obviously has access to the internet .
Perhaps he should direct his pleas in the direction of the McCanns.
-
‘... so they will already be in the public domain’.
Correct. The girl is on facebook, so is the woman implicated by him. The girl has since changed her privacy settings. Moreno has +- 3500 followers on his page, so people share what he puts on his wall. His plea is that authorities rule her out/in.
G-unit, I did ask his consent. So, no I do not regard it as being unethical. In fact, your question may equally apply to members posting innuendos and pictures of Gerry McCann as being Smithman (?)
Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman. This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum? In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now.
-
Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman. This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum? In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now.
Ah! but it might be Madeleine and she might be alive,got to keep the dream alive for some posters,on the other hand does every false lead,lead to another scenario of the poor girl was just as likely to have died before her name was even known.
-
Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman. This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum? In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now.
This is Not True. Gerry was not identified as Smithman. Please do not say this again.
-
Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman. This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum? In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now.
What rubbish... Which gives you the right to be the moral arbiter of the internet. This person has put photos into the public domain voluntarily...
-
This is Not True. Gerry was not identified as Smithman. Please do not say this again.
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child.
Martin Smith
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
-
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child.
Martin Smith
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
And you call that Identified? This sort of commenting is a disgrace.
-
And you call that Identified? This sort of commenting is a disgrace.
Who else did Smith name?
-
Who else did Smith name?
What has this got to do with Gunit's comment?
-
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child.
Martin Smith
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
Who’s Gerard McCann? Did he mean someone else? Surely this was not a mistake? He signed the statement didn’t he so therefore he must have meant Gerard and not Gerald. All very fishy to me....
-
And you call that Identified? This sort of commenting is a disgrace.
Do you object to this too?
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P15/15_VOLUME-XVa_Page_3979.jpg)
-
‘Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman.’
Didn’t Mr Smith retract this particular statement?
‘This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum?’
I agree. Therefore I have not named her. ‘Her photographs’ are already all over social media. You have previously labelled me as ‘misleading’. If firsthand experience re. my family’s holiday arrangements and reporting on information that is already in the public domain validate you singling me out, I suggest you re-evaluate your stance re. other members on the forum.
‘In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now..‘
Perhaps you should apply this sentiment to your postings about the McCanns. In particular ‘adding discomfort’ and ‘stop now’.
-
‘Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman.’
Didn’t Mr Smith retract this particular statement?
‘This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum?’
I agree. Therefore I have not named her. ‘Her photographs’ are already all over social media. You have previously labelled me as ‘misleading’. If firsthand experience re. my family’s holiday arrangements and reporting on information that is already in the public domain validate you singling me out, I suggest you re-evaluate your stance re. other members on the forum.
‘In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now..‘
Perhaps you should apply this sentiment to your postings about the McCanns. In particular ‘adding discomfort’ and ‘stop now’.
Chalk and cheese - IMO
McCann have been involved in this from the start, whereas this girl hasn't and may possible have never heard of Madeleine McCann.
-
Chalk and cheese - IMO
McCann have been involved in this from the start, whereas this girl hasn't and may possible have never heard of Madeleine McCann.
again if this girl has used the facilities of FB to put her photos online...accessible to the public...then unfortunately thats her choice
-
This Moreno guy sounds like a bit of a stalker. Laws against that, I believe, particular when children are involved.
-
I think Holly's theory is, absolute madness but there, seems no restriction on her posting it
Why should there be restrictins on her theory? The McCANNS swammped the globe with their pathetic effort; boogie men jemmying shutters- opening windows -curtains whooshing child- snatched from bed... compare it with another scarie child story- "Oh My!, what big eyes you have grandma, Oh what Big nose you have Grandama". Or , this chair is toooo small, this chair is toooo hard, ahh baby chair is just right.'
Posting pictures of children on this forum should not be encouraged,or allowed without their written permission- in respect to MBM's missing person case. Just my own opinion.
-
‘Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman.’
Didn’t Mr Smith retract this particular statement?
‘This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum?’
I agree. Therefore I have not named her. ‘Her photographs’ are already all over social media. You have previously labelled me as ‘misleading’. If firsthand experience re. my family’s holiday arrangements and reporting on information that is already in the public domain validate you singling me out, I suggest you re-evaluate your stance re. other members on the forum.
‘In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now..‘
Perhaps you should apply this sentiment to your postings about the McCanns. In particular ‘adding discomfort’ and ‘stop now’.
Mr Smith didn't retract his statement, that was a rumour. You suggested your holiday childcare arrangements were the same as those of the McCanns, but they differed. You say the girl has changed her settings; does that mean her photo's are now hidden? The McCanns are involved, this girl isn't. In addition they have sought publicity, she hasn't.
-
Mr Smith didn't retract his statement, that was a rumour. You suggested your holiday childcare arrangements were the same as those of the McCanns, but they differed. You say the girl has changed her settings; does that mean her photo's are now hidden? The McCanns are involved, this girl isn't. In addition they have sought publicity, she hasn't.
It really is risible that when photos of the McCann's having a private meal was put online you supported it... This girl put her photos in the public domain... Her choice
-
It really is risible that when photos of the McCann's having a private meal was put online you supported it... This girl put her photos in the public domain... Her choice
Did I post support for the pics of the McCanns?
Many young people use Facebook, but it doesn't mean they deserve to be accused of being Madeleine McCann.
-
‘Gerry McCann is involved in the case and was identified by a witness as being Smithman.’
Didn’t Mr Smith retract this particular statement?
‘This girl is an innocent bystander being associated with the case by a man whose motives are suspect imo. Did you get her permission to display her photographs of on this forum?’
I agree. Therefore I have not named her. ‘Her photographs’ are already all over social media. You have previously labelled me as ‘misleading’. If firsthand experience re. my family’s holiday arrangements and reporting on information that is already in the public domain validate you singling me out, I suggest you re-evaluate your stance re. other members on the forum.
‘In my opinion you are adding to her discomfort and should stop now..‘
Perhaps you should apply this sentiment to your postings about the McCanns. In particular ‘adding discomfort’ and ‘stop now’.
He has never retracted his statement. The BBC have changed that error.
Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?
https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2018/02/maddie-did-the-bbc-bend-the-truth/
https://gemmaodoherty.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/village-feb-2018-mccann-did-bbc-bend-the-truth.pdf
-
Do you object to this too?
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P15/15_VOLUME-XVa_Page_3979.jpg)
Hardly the same thing, is it. No one's name is mentioned.
-
Hardly the same thing, is it. No one's name is mentioned.
The name George Harrison was mentioned (one of the beatles band), so people were searching facefook, for GH look a like.
It was very helpful that JTs memory improved with time. from a side view identification-and only being 'concerned' the child was not wearing shoes on such a colds night,If the child was dead, it would not have made any difference.
-
Did I post support for the pics of the McCanns?
Many young people use Facebook, but it doesn't mean they deserve to be accused of being Madeleine McCann.
first she should not be using fb unless sshes 18....
then she meeds to learn...as all young people do ..that the internet has its pluses...and minuses.
Ive ran ads obn FB and ive had peopele complain about my ad appearing on their feed . They are too thick to realise taht someone has to pay for fb....Im paying so they can enjoy fb free
-
first she should not be using fb unless sshes 18....
then she meeds to learn...as all young people do ..that the internet has its pluses...and minuses.
Ive ran ads obn FB and ive had peopele complain about my ad appearing on their feed . They are too thick to realise taht someone has to pay for fb....Im paying so they can enjoy fb free
If it is allowed I would agree that people who use facefook are thick.:)
However, others searching through profiles and making scurrelous allegations about that person is quite another thing- and can be construed as harassment, libel to name two.
-
If it is allowed I would agree that people who use facefook are thick.:)
However, others searching through profiles and making scurrelous allegations about that person is quite another thing- and can be construed as harassment, libel to name two.
i dont think people who use fb are thick...you need to read my post again and comment on what i said...not what you think Ive said
-
i dont think people who use fb are thick...you need to read my post again and comment on what i said...not what you think Ive said
If you used proper grammar it would help.
Ive ran ads obn FB and ive had peopele complain about my ad appearing on their feed . They are too thick to realise taht someone has to pay for fb....Im paying so they can enjoy fb free
Oh is it just people who complain about your possible naff adverts who are thick?
-
If you used proper grammar it would help.
Ive ran ads obn FB and ive had peopele complain about my ad appearing on their feed . They are too thick to realise taht someone has to pay for fb....Im paying so they can enjoy fb free
Oh is it just people who complain about your possible naff adverts who are thick?
I think anyone who has english as their first language will understand my post...my possible naff adverts bring in a fortune in business...LOL. FB advertising has revolutionised advertising
-
I think anyone who has english as their first language will understand my post...my possible naff adverts bring in a fortune in business...LOL. FB advertising has revolutionised advertising
It has also been uesed to cause misery to many millions who now walk away from it. Cyber security/Identity theft / unethical business practices/and many crimes can also be stated as fact with this platform.
There was a time when no adverts were sent through feeds. the fact that FB place cookies on peoples PC to spy on their consumer choices is, IMO, unethical and disgusting. But Glad you think that is OK. You making all that money. AND being able to spend so much time on here. No wonder people complain.
-
Perhaps we could be pointed in the direction of this wonderful Facebook page, so we could judge for ourselves
-
Perhaps we could be pointed in the direction of this wonderful Facebook page, so we could judge for ourselves
I don't need your approval... It's judged on it's merits.
Anyone who knows anything about advertising knows just how powerful fb is. I would imagine that's next to no one on this forum
-
It has also been uesed to cause misery to many millions who now walk away from it. Cyber security/Identity theft / unethical business practices/and many crimes can also be stated as fact with this platform.
There was a time when no adverts were sent through feeds. the fact that FB place cookies on peoples PC to spy on their consumer choices is, IMO, unethical and disgusting. But Glad you think that is OK. You making all that money. AND being able to spend so much time on here. No wonder people complain.
Lol
-
I wasn't necessarily going to give it a seal of approval, but I thought you would be proud to show off this bigliest, most perfect facebook page ever produced for the world ( or at least this forum) to see for themselves ?{)(**
-
I wasn't necessarily going to give it a seal of approval, but I thought you would be proud to show off this bigliest, most perfect facebook page ever produced for the world ( or at least this forum) to see for themselves ?{)(**
lets see if you can understand this time...ill keep it simple...I have no interest in what you or otheres here think about me or my FB page...you are of no importance
-
Sounds to me as if you maybe haven't got a page at all.
-
Sounds to me as if you maybe haven't got a page at all.
I would probably be the only member of my profession that didnt in that case
-
So back to the topic. please.
What do members think of the latest theory?
-
first she should not be using fb unless sshes 18....
then she meeds to learn...as all young people do ..that the internet has its pluses...and minuses.
Ive ran ads obn FB and ive had peopele complain about my ad appearing on their feed . They are too thick to realise taht someone has to pay for fb....Im paying so they can enjoy fb free
Why 18?
-
G-unit, why do you insist that I am in the wrong here? I am sharing secondary information on a forum that discusses different theories surrounding Madeleine’e disappearance. Not once have you asked me about my stance re. Moreno's theory.
You say ‘the McCanns are involved, the girl not. They sought publicity, she didn’t’. I agree and will take Miss Taken Identity’s advice that underaged children’s pictures should not be shared. I withheld her name for this reason. What is your take on publicising persons such as Louisa Todorov, Joaquim Marques, Jorge Martins, Yvonne Albino etc?
-
So back to the topic. please.
What do members think of the latest theory?
What is the latest Theory. I've lost the plot again I'm afraid.
-
What is the latest Theory. I've lost the plot again I'm afraid.
I'm with you on that . 8((()*/
All I've seen is a series of photos lifted off some girl's facebook page. No idea what is actually behind them.
Oh and a bit of a waterway travelogue video
-
G-unit, why do you insist that I am in the wrong here? I am sharing secondary information on a forum that discusses different theories surrounding Madeleine’e disappearance. Not once have you asked me about my stance re. Moreno's theory.
You say ‘the McCanns are involved, the girl not. They sought publicity, she didn’t’. I agree and will take Miss Taken Identity’s advice that underaged children’s pictures should not be shared. I withheld her name for this reason. What is your take on publicising persons such as Louisa Todorov, Joaquim Marques, Jorge Martins, Yvonne Albino etc?
The information you shared has been deleted, which was nothing to do with me, but you might want to learn from that.
There has been untold rubbish in the media about various people; goodness knows where they get it from.
-
It's easy to say I've got a theory but how many can stand up to scrutiny where all the pieces fit together?
I go with the woke, wandered and met with an accident theory since it is the only one that stands up to scrutiny imo.
-
‘The information you shared has been deleted, which was nothing to do with me, but you might want to learn from that’
The fact that it has been deleted, is fine with me. I do find you patronising, though.
-
So all the crap spelling and crap posts, are part of a bigger plan..
Yes, we iz being played by a being of higher intelligenz and independent thort. 8(8-))
-
‘The information you shared has been deleted, which was nothing to do with me, but you might want to learn from that’
The fact that it has been deleted, is fine with me. I do find you patronising, though.
I'm sorry, I assumed you were continuing to push this man's 'theory' even after the information was deleted. I can't help my posting style, I'm afraid, it is what it is. My intention is not to patronise anyone.
-
It was never my intention to push Moreno’s theory. I thought members here would find it interesting since it is ‘out there’. Therefore, me posting it. I am kindly asking that moderators remove the pictures of the girl that I have posted. I realise it was not the proper thing to do.
In a previous post I did mention that his theory comprises almost all persons under suspicion re. Madeleine’s disappearance. Like most people, I find it non-viable. And he knows that. I was suggesting that his theory might contain some nugget which may be regarded worthwhile pursuing. For example, the McCann’s one-year stay in the Netherlands and their interaction with people during that time.
-
It was never my intention to push Moreno’s theory. I thought members here would find it interesting since it is ‘out there’. Therefore, me posting it. I am kindly asking that moderators remove the pictures of the girl that I have posted. I realise it was not the proper thing to do.
In a previous post I did mention that his theory comprises almost all persons under suspicion re. Madeleine’s disappearance. Like most people, I find it non-viable. And he knows that. I was suggesting that his theory might contain some nugget which may be regarded worthwhile pursuing. For example, the McCann’s one-year stay in the Netherlands and their interaction with people during that time.
Is it accessible? I've never come across it in various searches, all I ever knew of him was the 'hoax' story.
-
Is it accessible? I've never come across it in various searches, all I ever knew of him was the 'hoax' story.
Probably you haven't heard of it because it is relatively new http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg564033#msg564033 and is hardly likely to have been picked up by the numerous social media platforms adamant in their twin pronged obsessions of Madeleine's death and her parents dunnit.
Moreno's sin appears to be his belief Madeleine is alive; if he had been another oddball promoting his notion of how and why Madeleine had died and how her parents had engineered it ... I am absolutely certain we would have heard all about it in lurid technicolour.
It did however prompt a little discussion on this discussion forum which is the name of the game; and it certainly did highlight one or two thought processes.
-
Probably you haven't heard of it because it is relatively new http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg564033#msg564033 and is hardly likely to have been picked up by the numerous social media platforms adamant in their twin pronged obsessions of Madeleine's death and her parents dunnit.
Moreno's sin appears to be his belief Madeleine is alive; if he had been another oddball promoting his notion of how and why Madeleine had died and how her parents had engineered it ... I am absolutely certain we would have heard all about it in lurid technicolour.
It did however prompt a little discussion on this discussion forum which is the name of the game; and it certainly did highlight one or two thought processes.
IMO Moreno's sin is fixation on a girl who is clearly not Madeleine. Furthermore, he was repeatedly tweeting the poor girl's photo on Twitter whilst issuing death threats to Joana Morais & being abusive to others who have upset his apple-cart. His twitter account was suspended last week & his personal Facebook page has been sanitised.
I am also unsure why the Associated Press Ibiza Airport Evacuation photo pf June 2007 was ever linked to Luiz Moreno. Reports in 2012 stated Frank Bode, the German tourist who took the photo a few months earlier, saw a 7-10yr old girl who resembled Madeleine - not a child as young as the girl in the AP photo. I don't believe we have ever seen Frank Bode's photo which prompted the involvement of Moreno.
-
This is the younger version of the same girl (I don’t know if I may give her name), compared to Madeleine.
Sorry, but I don't think the girl is Madeleine. Compare the distance between the upper lip and the underside of the nose. Madeleine has a longer length proportionally there.
-
I'm comparing the images not so much with Madeleine but trying more to think of Kate and Gerry and they're not ringing any bells for me.
Sadie has an expertise in this, it will be interesting to see what she thinks of it but for me it is thumbs down.
Sadly, me too. The only one, imo, that has any chance at all is the bottom one, but I don't think so. Sorry
-
I agree Brietta. I think the girl is too old to be 16. Sadie’s input should be interesting and informative. Here are some comparisons to the McCanns.
Soz, I dont think any of these are Madeleine either. Both Kate and Gerry have wide ' cupids bows '. None of these girls have that.
-
These are Moreno’s photos and the unauthorised age-progression picture of Madeleine, aged 16.
I congratulate Mr Moreno for all the hard work he has put in, but again I think it is a thumbs down situation.
However, apart from the rather too samall distance proportionally from bottom of nose to upper lip, I think it might be a good age progression image. But I am not expert on age progression images, so cannot be sure.
-
this girl has quite a large nose that neither gerry or kate have
I agree, it is too big imo. But for once it takes its other proportions from the well known Madeleine photo in the red dress.
Maybe someone can help me with this description cos i am finding it difficult:
Children take their features and other things from not only their parents but also from their grandparents. There are four grandparents and I think that in many ways, Madeleine resembles Gerrys mum and sisters. Gerry doesn't resemble his Mum or sisters IMO ... but they tend to have noses rather like Madeleine.
There are sxcientific papers about it, which i have only been reading tonight, but I am too tired to start searching for the DNA and Genes stuff at this time of night.
If you are interested it is on the internet.
-
Hi Misty, as far as I remember Frank Bode’s picture was taken when Madeleine would have been nine years old. I’ll look for a reference.
-
“Scotland Yard was contacted by Frank Bode who reported that he had seen a girl who looked like Maddie, who now be aged nine, accompanied by a family at Ibiza airport.“ (Evening Standard, 31 August 2012)
-
Probably you haven't heard of it because it is relatively new http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg564033#msg564033 and is hardly likely to have been picked up by the numerous social media platforms adamant in their twin pronged obsessions of Madeleine's death and her parents dunnit.
Moreno's sin appears to be his belief Madeleine is alive; if he had been another oddball promoting his notion of how and why Madeleine had died and how her parents had engineered it ... I am absolutely certain we would have heard all about it in lurid technicolour.
It did however prompt a little discussion on this discussion forum which is the name of the game; and it certainly did highlight one or two thought processes.
I haven't seen anyone objecting to his belief that Madeleine is alive. I objected to his stalking of a young girl and libelling a woman.
-
‘I don't believe we have ever seen Frank Bode's photo’
Bode’s photo.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
These are Moreno’s photos and the unauthorised age-progression picture of Madeleine, aged 16.
How is posting pictures of young girls acceptable? Bit weird.
Have you asked her permission?
-
Hi General, I posted this yesterday.
‘It was never my intention to push Moreno’s theory. I thought members here would find it interesting since it is ‘out there’. Therefore, me posting it. I am kindly asking that moderators remove the pictures of the girl that I have posted. I realise it was not the proper thing to do.‘
-
I haven't seen anyone objecting to his belief that Madeleine is alive. I objected to his stalking of a young girl and libelling a woman.
Gosh. And yet you don’t blink an eye when it is the McCanns being libelled as they have been frequently, even on this forum.
-
‘I don't believe we have ever seen Frank Bode's photo’
Bode’s photo.
That looks nothing like Madeleine.
-
Hi General, I posted this yesterday.
‘It was never my intention to push Moreno’s theory. I thought members here would find it interesting since it is ‘out there’. Therefore, me posting it. I am kindly asking that moderators remove the pictures of the girl that I have posted. I realise it was not the proper thing to do.‘
Fair enough.
-
‘I don't believe we have ever seen Frank Bode's photo’
Bode’s photo.
According to the press holidaymaker Bode was returning to Munich after a five day break in Ibiza. Assuming he stayed on the flight and went home, I wonder why he chose to speak exclusively to the Olive Press? That was the source for the story which was picked up (or bought) by the newspapers in the UK, Germany and Portugal.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/09/03/detective-praises-reporting-of-maddie-sighting-in-ibiza/
-
Gosh. And yet you don’t blink an eye when it is the McCanns being libelled as they have been frequently, even on this forum.
Don't I? Perhaps you have an example of this libel?
-
Don't I? Perhaps you have an example of this libel?
Oh puh-lease. The forum is bursting with it, just open your eyes.
-
The idea that Maddie is alive & well, living with some foreign family is cobblers.
How has she forgotten her parents, siblings & her own bleedin name ffs?
Utter nonsense.
-
The idea that Maddie is alive & well, living with some foreign family is cobblers.
How has she forgotten her parents, siblings & her own bleedin name ffs?
Utter nonsense.
Stop having a hissy fit and consider that it wouldn’t be the first time such a thing has happened.
-
Oh puh-lease. The forum is bursting with it, just open your eyes.
Are you helping the moderation team by reporting such alleged libel to them, so they can follow the forum rules and delete libel on sight?
*%87
-
Stop having a hissy fit and consider that it wouldn’t be the first time such a thing has happened.
Right'O.
Let's have some examples of such a thing happening.
-
Are you helping the moderation team by reporting such alleged libel to them, so they can follow the forum rules and delete libel on sight?
*%87
No, I am well past caring. Libel away to your heart’s content, and thanks for the goady emoticon, it certainly enhanced the quality of your post.
-
Right'O.
Let's have some examples of such a thing happening.
That girl in Germany who was abducted by some bloke and kept for years. Can’t remember her name.
-
Kids in China have been stolen to order to live with other families, some of them forget their past identities. It’s fairly well known.
-
Right'O.
Let's have some examples of such a thing happening.
Google Steven Sayner.
-
Or how about this case?
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/an-abducted-child-reveals-the-true-story-of-her-stolen-life-three-decades-later-a6711121.html
Let me know when you’ve had enough Spam.
-
Or how about this case?
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/an-abducted-child-reveals-the-true-story-of-her-stolen-life-three-decades-later-a6711121.html
Let me know when you’ve had enough Spam.
Abducted by her own father.
Next.
-
Hi Vertigo Swirl, are you thinking of Natascha Kampusch?
-
Hi Vertigo Swirl, are you thinking of Natascha Kampusch?
Yes, her. Also there are some of the half million kids who were forcibily removed from this country and sent to live in Australia in the last century, many of whom lost touch with who they really were, their family name, siblings etc.
-
Maybe Maddie was abducted by an Amish community, can't google her own name.
-
Abducted by her own father.
Next.
So what? This is what you found so hard to believe -
"The idea that Maddie is alive & well, living with some foreign family is cobblers.
How has she forgotten her parents, siblings & her own bleedin name ffs?"
And this case demonstrates perfectly well that it is possible, unless you can explain why it does not?
-
Maybe Maddie was abducted by an Amish community, can't google her own name.
If she doesn't know her own name maybe nothing's coming up when she googles her new name.
-
Spam seems to believe it is impossible for a child to forget details such as the name they were called for the first 4 years of their life and details of their early childhood. Has this been scientifically proven to be the case?
-
Google Steven Sayner.
Stayner claims he knew who he was but was unaware of how to summon help.
Next.
-
So what? This is what you found so hard to believe -
"The idea that Maddie is alive & well, living with some foreign family is cobblers.
How has she forgotten her parents, siblings & her own bleedin name ffs?"
And this case demonstrates perfectly well that it is possible, unless you want explain why it does not?
Because Maddie died May 3rd 2007. Imo
-
If Madeleine was abducted and taken to live in another family she was definitely harmed psychologically by that experience in my opinion.
-
That girl in Germany who was abducted by some bloke and kept for years. Can’t remember her name.
Natasha what's her face.
Knew who she was but was held locked in the paedo's basement & couldn't summon help.
Next.
-
I doubt that I would have remembered my name from four years old, especially if I had been given a new name.
Her new life would have been full of new things. New places and possibly a new language.
There might be some vestiges in there somewhere. But where could she start from when her new life would have been so very different?
I was called Mitch from a very young age, by all and sundry outside of the family, so I have some difficulty in remembering who Maureen was. I have to adjust my thinking when addressed by my family.
-
If Madeleine was abducted and taken to live in another family she was definitely harmed psychologically by that experience in my opinion.
I wasn't harmed by my sojourn in a Children's Home. Children adjust when they are very young, especially if they are treated well.
Okay. No one is going to win this one. But I certainly do not hope that Madeleine is dead.
And of course, I would blame the Abductors, who might not be the people with whom she could now be living, who themselves might not know who she is.
There is good money to be made from trafficking a child for illegal adoption. It costs a lot of money to adopt a child Legally.
-
Because Maddie died May 3rd 2007. Imo
Hmm. So you DO believe it's possible for a young child to forget their siblings, own name and parents if abducted? But you don't believe it applies in this case?
-
Stayner claims he knew who he was but was unaware of how to summon help.
Next.
So it's the "not knowing who she was in early childhood" that's the deal breaker for you is it? So as far as you're concerned it's impossible for a child to be removed from their family and not know their original name, siblings, mother etc, yet I have just posted a case where this has been shown to have happened, which you dismissed because the child was abducted by their father. There's not much logic there is there?
-
I wasn't harmed by my sojourn in a Children's Home. Children adjust when they are very young, especially if they are treated well.
Okay. No one is going to win this one. But I certainly do not hope that Madeleine is dead.
And of course, I would blame the Abductors, who might not be the people with whom she could now be living, who themselves might not know who she is.
There is good money to be made from trafficking a child for illegal adoption. It costs a lot of money to adopt a child Legally.
Did you know who your family were?
-
Did you know who your family were?
I was ten years old by then, so of course I did.
My point was that I wasn't harmed. And that I long ago forgot who Maureen was or even is.
My second name is Eleanor Mitchell, so you all get what you see.
I bet that your second name isn't Gunit.
-
I was ten years old by then, so of course I did.
My point was that I wasn't harmed. And that I long ago forgot who Maureen was or even is.
My second name is Eleanor Mitchell, so you all get what you see.
I bet that your second name isn't Gunit.
Your situation isn't similar to an abducted child's situation then.
-
Hmm. So you DO believe it's possible for a young child to forget their siblings, own name and parents if abducted? But you don't believe it applies in this case?
Children as young a Maddie will forget most things which occurred in their foremost years.
-
Children as young a Maddie will forget most things which occurred in their foremost years.
Of course, they are also easily convinced and credulous at that age.
-
Children as young a Maddie will forget most things which occurred in their foremost years.
You've forgotten to put imo...
I have memories from two years old... So your statement isn't true.
I think Maddie would have memories... Particularly of being abducted if she was
-
Your situation isn't similar to an abducted child's situation then.
You are obfuscating again. I had not much idea of who Maureen was when I was four years old, or even now. If someone shouted Maureen I would not attribute it to me.
-
You've forgotten to put imo...
I have memories from two years old... So your statement isn't true.
I think Maddie would have memories... Particularly of being abducted if she was
This could well depend on what Madeleine was told at the time. If she was told that her parents didn't want her anymore then it might have been best forgotten.
-
You've forgotten to put imo...
I have memories from two years old... So your statement isn't true.
I think Maddie would have memories... Particularly of being abducted if she was
A lot of children don't have early memories, but others do. In cases of trauma I think that memories survive because the child is forced to attempt to make sense of what's happening to them.
-
This could well depend on what Madeleine was told at the time. If she was told that her parents didn't want her anymore then it might have been best forgotten.
That would be extremely traumatic in my opinion and would never be forgotten.
-
A lot of children don't have early memories, but others do. In cases of trauma I think that memories survive because the child is forced to attempt to make sense of what's happening to them.
My memories aren't traumatic but I have said in the past that traumatic incidents are more likely to be remebered... It's therefore reasonable to believe that Maddie would have memories if she was, abducted and still alive
-
My memories aren't traumatic but I have said in the past that traumatic incidents are more likely to be remebered... It's therefore reasonable to believe that Maddie would have memories if she was, abducted and still alive
There are many variables. The memories might not make sense or be coherent, but they will be there imo.
-
"Mummy, I've had the best day ever. I'm having lots and lots of fun."
It was the last time Mrs McCann saw her daughter.
......................
Poor Kate, how could Maddie just forget her & about her best day ever.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1559517/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-recalls-last-chat.html
-
"Mummy, I've had the best day ever. I'm having lots and lots of fun."
It was the last time Mrs McCann saw her daughter.
......................
Poor Kate, how could Maddie just forget her & about her best day ever.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1559517/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-recalls-last-chat.html
And it left her pale, worn out and in need of being carried back to 5A. (madeleine)
-
IMO Moreno's sin is fixation on a girl who is clearly not Madeleine. Furthermore, he was repeatedly tweeting the poor girl's photo on Twitter whilst issuing death threats to Joana Morais & being abusive to others who have upset his apple-cart. His twitter account was suspended last week & his personal Facebook page has been sanitised.
I am also unsure why the Associated Press Ibiza Airport Evacuation photo pf June 2007 was ever linked to Luiz Moreno. Reports in 2012 stated Frank Bode, the German tourist who took the photo a few months earlier, saw a 7-10yr old girl who resembled Madeleine - not a child as young as the girl in the AP photo. I don't believe we have ever seen Frank Bode's photo which prompted the involvement of Moreno.
Thanks for that Misty. I really don't know much about the ins and outs of Moreno and nothing of Frank Bode although further reading of the thread might refresh my memory.
As far as Moreno's association with the Ibetha photograph goes in my opinion it is merely one more example of the power of propaganda when a concerted effort by apparently diverse groups combine to develop the narrative.
-
How is posting pictures of young girls acceptable? Bit weird.
Have you asked her permission?
I recall the photograph now.
If you can provide me with her name and address I'll write and ask her if she gave her permission
(a) to have her photo taken
(b) to have it published in the public domain
... although the proper action to take would have been for the police to have been given the image and as many associated details as possible to enable them to investigate.
Scotland Yard were informed in 2012 ... but Madeleine's case was only reopened a year later in 2013.
-
I recall the photograph now.
If you can provide me with her name and address I'll write and ask her if she gave her permission
(a) to have her photo taken
(b) to have it published in the public domain
... although the proper action to take would have been for the police to have been given the image and as many associated details as possible to enable them to investigate.
Scotland Yard were informed in 2012 ... but Madeleine's case was only reopened a year later in 2013.
Slightly over the top sarcasm, but please, feel free to crack on endorsing / posting pictures of underage / young girls on the internet.
That self-imposed embargo didn't last, kid.
-
"Mummy, I've had the best day ever. I'm having lots and lots of fun."
It was the last time Mrs McCann saw her daughter.
......................
Poor Kate, how could Maddie just forget her & about her best day ever.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1559517/Madeleine-McCanns-mother-recalls-last-chat.html
"If you're happy and you know it clap your hands"
“I took them all into their bedroom and Madeleine got into her bed and I settled on top of it with our backs against the wall for our final story.
"'If you’re happy and you know it!’ was a present from her great-auntie Janet and great-uncle Brian.
“[The story goes] If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands – says the monkey, stamp your feet – says the elephant.
“It seemed so fitting at the time.
“Madeleine was obviously exhausted and her head sank down on her pillow intermittently, although she did join in with the babbled responses of her little brother and sister.
“It’s strange the things you remember.”
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1110159/madeleine-mccann-netflix-documentary-ironic-song-kate-mccann-recalls-spt
https://theoneworldnews.com/europe/madeleine-mccann-how-kate-mccann-recalled-hearing-apartment-was-prime-target/
"About 10 to 15 minutes later, they took the children to the bedroom and they all sat on MADELEINE'S bed to read a story."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Kate: I took them to the bedroom
Gerry: We took them them to the bedroom
-
"If you're happy and you know it clap your hands"
“I took them all into their bedroom and Madeleine got into her bed and I settled on top of it with our backs against the wall for our final story.
"'If you’re happy and you know it!’ was a present from her great-auntie Janet and great-uncle Brian.
“[The story goes] If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands – says the monkey, stamp your feet – says the elephant.
“It seemed so fitting at the time.
“Madeleine was obviously exhausted and her head sank down on her pillow intermittently, although she did join in with the babbled responses of her little brother and sister.
“It’s strange the things you remember.”
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1110159/madeleine-mccann-netflix-documentary-ironic-song-kate-mccann-recalls-spt
https://theoneworldnews.com/europe/madeleine-mccann-how-kate-mccann-recalled-hearing-apartment-was-prime-target/
"About 10 to 15 minutes later, they took the children to the bedroom and they all sat on MADELEINE'S bed to read a story."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Kate: I took them to the bedroom
Gerry: We took them them to the bedroom
Wow, how compelling. Not. Pathetic barrel scraping in truth.
-
Wow, how compelling. Not. Pathetic barrel scraping in truth.
The McCanns are the last to see their daughter & there's some inconsistency in their account.
But, it's all irrelevant anyways because it woz a German paedo wot dunnit. Or a burglar, or Mrs Fenns niece, but definitely not the McParents.
-
The McCanns are the last to see their daughter & there's some inconsistency in their account.
But, it's all irrelevant anyways because it woz a German paedo wot dunnit. Or a burglar, or Mrs Fenns niece, but definitely not the McParents.
What , because one of them said I took them to their bedroom and the other said we did? Gosh, huge inconsistency, I’m amazed the police haven’t hauled them in for cross-questioning again.
-
What , because one of them said I took them to their bedroom and the other said we did? Gosh, huge inconsistency, I’m amazed the police haven’t hauled them in for cross-questioning again.
Then there's bed clothes.
"She was breathing softly and I thought how beautiful she looked. I thought it was quite hot and I didn’t need to cover her up."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/1584584/Madeleine-McCann-complained-to-mother-Kate-about-being-left-crying-alone.html
She was under the covers, she thinks because she was a bit cold.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm
Moreover, he says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, she was completely uncovered, that is, lying on top of the covers, with the soft toy and the blanket, both pink, next to her head.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
-
Then there's bed clothes.
"She was breathing softly and I thought how beautiful she looked. I thought it was quite hot and I didn’t need to cover her up."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/1584584/Madeleine-McCann-complained-to-mother-Kate-about-being-left-crying-alone.html
She was under the covers, she thinks because she was a bit cold.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm
Moreover, he says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, she was completely uncovered, that is, lying on top of the covers, with the soft toy and the blanket, both pink, next to her head.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
Wowsers. That’s the clincher for me. I’m convinced they dunnit now. Cheers Spam.
-
Wowsers. That’s the clincher for me. I’m convinced they dunnit now. Cheers Spam.
Thanks, my pleasure.
Now we both believe that it woz the parents wot dunnit.
But we're going to look mighty silly when SY nail the abductor, shouldn't be much longer now.
-
Thanks, my pleasure.
Now we both believe that it woz the parents wot dunnit.
But we're going to look mighty silly when SY nail the abductor, shouldn't be much longer now.
Oh well, I’m sure you’ll be able to convince them they’re wrong when you tell them all about the taking the kids to the bedroom and the bedclothes thing.
-
Oh well, I’m sure you’ll be able to convince them they’re wrong when you tell them all about the taking the kids to the bedroom and the bedclothes thing.
Well they've had 6 years & 12 million squids to expend, I'm pretty sure they would have noticed these inconsistencies by now & they'd have ironed all that out when they questioned Kate & Gerry.
When did that happen again?
-
Wow, how compelling. Not. Pathetic barrel scraping in truth.
There are many inconsistencies in the last hours before the disappearance.
Tip No. 1: Inconsistencies
"When you want to know if someone is lying, look for inconsistencies in what they are saying," says Newberry, who was a federal agent for 30 years and a police officer for five.
When the woman he was questioning said she ran and hid after hearing gunshots -- without looking -- Newberry saw the inconsistency immediately.
"There was something that just didn't fit," says Newberry. "She heard gunshots but she didn't look? I knew that was inconsistent with how a person would respond to a situation like that."
So when she wasn't paying attention, he banged on the table. She looked right at him.
"When a person hears a noise, it's a natural reaction to look toward it," Newberry tells WebMD. "I knew she heard those gunshots, looked in the direction from which they came, saw the shooter, and then ran."
Sure enough, he was right.
"Her story was just illogical," says Newberry. "And that's what you should look for when you're talking to someone who isn't being truthful. Are there inconsistencies that just don't fit?"
https://www.webmd.com/balance/features/10-ways-catch-liar#1
David Payne entering the apartment but he did not according to Kate. David Payne not seeing the open window when he entered the apartment. Kate not looking into the car park for her missing daughter after finding an open window and then abandoning her other children. Kate not checking on the children first when entering the apartment but instead investigating the bedroom door. How the bedroom door moved 3 times between different checks. David Payne not remembering what Kate was wearing when she said she answered the door dressed only in a towel. Gerry doing a check straight after Matt had just returned from checking. Madeleine heard crying by a neighbour for over an hour when they claim to be checking every 30 minutes. Why they claimed the apartment was locked in the day but not at night with children inside. How Jane saw Gerry and Jez but neither saw her on a quiet deserted street. If they were concerned about the unlocked apartment why did they have their backs to their apartment at the table. Why Madeleine was tired on the evening of 3 May 2007 which is complete opposite to the energetic child that never stops. Why no unknown prints were found on the window that was opened. Madeleine was under and on top of covers. How did Gerry see Madeleine in the dark and have his proud father moment when Kate found it difficult to see. When the men first split up outdoors to search where did Gerry search because he has never answered that question except claim that he sent Matt to go to the main reception but according to Matt it was Fiona who told him to go and she corroborated it. Why the only deleted records on their mobiles were from the holiday period in Portugal. How did Matt give a time of 21:50 when Kate left to check and Gerry said it was 22:03 and both were wearing watches. Just quick ones off the top of my head.
Any theory should be backed up by evidence not what IFs.
-
Well they've had 6 years & 12 million squids to expend, I'm pretty sure they would have noticed these inconsistencies by now & they'd have ironed all that out when they questioned Kate & Gerry.
When did that happen again?
You, like the rest of us, haven't the foggiest idea about who was interviewed and who wasn't.
When did they interview "innocent dad"? When did they interview the victims who were assaulted as children by an intruder in their bedrooms when they were on holiday in the Algarve? When did they interview anyone as they went about their cold case review of missing Madeleine McCann?
In my opinion they most certainly carried out interviews in the run up to Madeleine's case being reopened because they had to have the evidence which justified that.
How else do you think they gathered evidence if witnesses weren't interviewed?
Just because these interviews were not in the public domain does not mean they did not happen.
-
You, like the rest of us, haven't the foggiest idea about who was interviewed and who wasn't.
When did they interview "innocent dad"? When did they interview the victims who were assaulted as children by an intruder in their bedrooms when they were on holiday in the Algarve? When did they interview anyone as they went about their cold case review of missing Madeleine McCann?
In my opinion they most certainly carried out interviews in the run up to Madeleine's case being reopened because they had to have the evidence which justified that.
How else do you think they gathered evidence if witnesses weren't interviewed?
Just because these interviews were not in the public domain does not mean they did not happen.
Where would the legality be in interfering in a foreign investigation before it was sanctioned and agreed by the PJ,the defence should it ever get to trial would have a field day.Hogan Howe clearly told us what happened,the files had to be translated,that's why all and sundry were able to be eliminated.To get the files there would have to be some official contact,not done on a pretty please.
-
You, like the rest of us, haven't the foggiest idea about who was interviewed and who wasn't.
When did they interview "innocent dad"? When did they interview the victims who were assaulted as children by an intruder in their bedrooms when they were on holiday in the Algarve? When did they interview anyone as they went about their cold case review of missing Madeleine McCann?
In my opinion they most certainly carried out interviews in the run up to Madeleine's case being reopened because they had to have the evidence which justified that.
How else do you think they gathered evidence if witnesses weren't interviewed?
Just because these interviews were not in the public domain does not mean they did not happen.
I seem to remember a media fanfare when Robert Murat & the burglars 3 were questioned.
-
There are many inconsistencies in the last hours before the disappearance.
Tip No. 1: Inconsistencies
"When you want to know if someone is lying, look for inconsistencies in what they are saying," says Newberry, who was a federal agent for 30 years and a police officer for five.
When the woman he was questioning said she ran and hid after hearing gunshots -- without looking -- Newberry saw the inconsistency immediately.
"There was something that just didn't fit," says Newberry. "She heard gunshots but she didn't look? I knew that was inconsistent with how a person would respond to a situation like that."
So when she wasn't paying attention, he banged on the table. She looked right at him.
"When a person hears a noise, it's a natural reaction to look toward it," Newberry tells WebMD. "I knew she heard those gunshots, looked in the direction from which they came, saw the shooter, and then ran."
Sure enough, he was right.
"Her story was just illogical," says Newberry. "And that's what you should look for when you're talking to someone who isn't being truthful. Are there inconsistencies that just don't fit?"
https://www.webmd.com/balance/features/10-ways-catch-liar#1
David Payne entering the apartment but he did not according to Kate. David Payne not seeing the open window when he entered the apartment. Kate not looking into the car park for her missing daughter after finding an open window and then abandoning her other children. Kate not checking on the children first when entering the apartment but instead investigating the bedroom door. How the bedroom door moved 3 times between different checks. David Payne not remembering what Kate was wearing when she said she answered the door dressed only in a towel. Gerry doing a check straight after Matt had just returned from checking. Madeleine heard crying by a neighbour for over an hour when they claim to be checking every 30 minutes. Why they claimed the apartment was locked in the day but not at night with children inside. How Jane saw Gerry and Jez but neither saw her on a quiet deserted street. If they were concerned about the unlocked apartment why did they have their backs to their apartment at the table. Why Madeleine was tired on the evening of 3 May 2007 which is complete opposite to the energetic child that never stops. Why no unknown prints were found on the window that was opened. Madeleine was under and on top of covers. How did Gerry see Madeleine in the dark and have his proud father moment when Kate found it difficult to see. When the men first split up outdoors to search where did Gerry search because he has never answered that question except claim that he sent Matt to go to the main reception but according to Matt it was Fiona who told him to go and she corroborated it. Why the only deleted records on their mobiles were from the holiday period in Portugal. How did Matt give a time of 21:50 when Kate left to check and Gerry said it was 22:03 and both were wearing watches. Just quick ones off the top of my head.
Any theory should be backed up by evidence not what IFs.
Is this the evidence that backs up your theory? Oh dear. How about you perform the same exercise for the Murats, the nannies, the Tapas staff, Pamela Fenn and her niece and see how many more inconsistencies you can find. There are quite a few! They must all be in on it I guess...
-
Is this the evidence that backs up your theory? Oh dear. How about you perform the same exercise for the Murats, the nannies, the Tapas staff, Pamela Fenn and her niece and see how many more inconsistencies you can find. There are quite a few! They must all be in on it I guess...
None of them were the last to see Maddie.
-
None of them were the last to see Maddie.
How do you know?
-
Well they've had 6 years & 12 million squids to expend, I'm pretty sure they would have noticed these inconsistencies by now & they'd have ironed all that out when they questioned Kate & Gerry.
When did that happen again?
So do you believe the Met and the PJ are just really thick or are they involved in a cover up to protect the McCanns?
-
I seem to remember a media fanfare when Robert Murat & the burglars 3 were questioned.
If I remember correctly from the time, all directly traceable to a Portuguese source via a British blogger. Initially traces of the old order hadn't yet changed and were still leaking like a sieve.
Amaral was still able to be first with news of the foreign jailed suspect. How did he manage that since he has no locus in any police investigation. Judge for yourself whether his information was kosher or not.
-
None of them were the last to see Maddie.
How do you know that ??? Holly has been making a case that at least one of them did using exactly the same technique as you.
-
How do you know?
Snap!!!
-
How do you know?
We know because the evidence supports it. The possibility that someone else saw Madeleine after her parents did is just an idea, a guess, a 'perhaps'. There is no evidence to support it, just the words of the parents.
-
We know because the evidence supports it. The possibility that someone else saw Madeleine after her parents did is just an idea, a guess, a 'perhaps'. There is no evidence to support it, just the words of the parents.
So because we know the parents are the last known people to have seen Madeleine inconsistencies in their statements must be treated as suspicious, however inconsistencies in the statements of others in the near vicinity (including a one time arguido) can be explained as just faulty memory, incorrect statement taking, poor translations, etc. Is that it in a nutshell?
-
How do you know that ??? Holly has been making a case that at least one of them did using exactly the same technique as you.
Holly believes Bamber is innocent.
Need I say more?
-
So because we know the parents are the last known people to have seen Madeleine inconsistencies in their statements must be treated as suspicious, however inconsistencies in the statements of others in the near vicinity (including a one time arguido) can be explained as just faulty memory, incorrect statement taking, poor translations, etc. Is that it in a nutshell?
Perhaps you could start a new thread & highlight the many suspicious inconsistencies in Murats account.
-
Perhaps you could start a new thread & highlight the many suspicious inconsistencies in Murats account.
Bennet has already done it... There's loads
-
We know because the evidence supports it. The possibility that someone else saw Madeleine after her parents did is just an idea, a guess, a 'perhaps'. There is no evidence to support it, just the words of the parents.
The evidence supports the mccanns innocence... No guesswork
-
We know because the evidence supports it. The possibility that someone else saw Madeleine after her parents did is just an idea, a guess, a 'perhaps'. There is no evidence to support it, just the words of the parents.
The evidence is that Kate discovered Madeleine was missing at approx. 10pm and after a frantic search of the apartment raised the alarm.
There is however no evidence for the abundance of theories built around that event. For example there are those who proselytise the internet theory that something untoward happened to Madeleine on the previous Sunday.
What is the rating for that theory do you think ... good ~ bad ~ average ~ or absolute looney tunes? and there are many more of that calibre out there.
-
The evidence supports the mccanns innocence... No guesswork
You forgot to add IMO there.
-
The evidence is that Kate discovered Madeleine was missing at approx. 10pm and after a frantic search of the apartment raised the alarm.
There is however no evidence for the abundance of theories built around that event. For example there are those who proselytise the internet theory that something untoward happened to Madeleine on the previous Sunday.
What is the rating for that theory do you think ... good ~ bad ~ average ~ or absolute looney tunes? and there are many more of that calibre out there.
The evidence supporting Kate's account is provided by her, her husband and their friends. According to their evidence Kate left to check her children some time between 9.45pm and 10.03pm. On her return she was described as having cried, screamed or shouted to tell the others that Madeleine had gone. No-one else saw her leave, return or heard her making any loud noises. Those are the facts.
-
The evidence supporting Kate's account is provided by her, her husband and their friends. According to their evidence Kate left to check her children some time between 9.45pm and 10.03pm. On her return she was described as having cried, screamed or shouted to tell the others that Madeleine had gone. No-one else saw her leave, return or heard her making any loud noises. Those are the facts.
And there us no reason to believe Kate is lying
There are countless crimes where the only witnesses are the victims
Do we believe Ben Needhams grandmother Re her statement
-
And there us no reason to believe Kate is lying
There are countless crimes where the only witnesses are the victims
Do we believe Ben Needhams grandmother Re her statement
You forgot to add IMO there.
-
And there us no reason to believe Kate is lying
There are countless crimes where the only witnesses are the victims
Do we believe Ben Needhams grandmother Re her statement
That is your opinion, which is not shared by everyone.
-
You forgot to add IMO there.
No I did not.
It is all to do with the opinion of the Policia Judiciaria who investigated the case following the evidence unlike Amaral who hypothesised from the start of his involvement.
It is all to do with the opinion of the Portuguese prosecutors who scrutinised the report presented to them by the PJ.
My opinion is that Amaral produced some of the most risible theories regarding this case and very few people give them credibility any more.
-
No I did not.
It is all to do with the opinion of the Policia Judiciaria who investigated the case following the evidence unlike Amaral who hypothesised from the start of his involvement.
It is all to do with the opinion of the Portuguese prosecutors who scrutinised the report presented to them by the PJ.
My opinion is that Amaral produced some of the most risible theories regarding this case and very few people give them credibility any more.
Don't get your knickers in a twist, I wasn't talking to you.
-
The evidence supporting Kate's account is provided by her, her husband and their friends. According to their evidence Kate left to check her children some time between 9.45pm and 10.03pm. On her return she was described as having cried, screamed or shouted to tell the others that Madeleine had gone. No-one else saw her leave, return or heard her making any loud noises. Those are the facts.
Who was that screaming and shouting at 10pm ???? I am afraid your interpretation of the facts falls rather short of accuracy and amounts in my opinion to yet another flawed theory doing the rounds of the internet.
-
No I did not.
It is all to do with the opinion of the Policia Judiciaria who investigated the case following the evidence unlike Amaral who hypothesised from the start of his involvement.
It is all to do with the opinion of the Portuguese prosecutors who scrutinised the report presented to them by the PJ.
My opinion is that Amaral produced some of the most risible theories regarding this case and very few people give them credibility any more.
My opinion is that you are deliberately misleading people by trying to insinuate that Amaral was the only member of the PJ who suspected the parents. In my opinion you can't know what people think about Amaral or his theories.
-
Don't get your knickers in a twist, I wasn't talking to you.
Not to worry since my reply rather backs up what Davel was saying in his post. But while we are on the subject, please note what the thread topic is and attempt to post something along those lines. TY
-
So do you believe the Met and the PJ are just really thick or are they involved in a cover up to protect the McCanns?
There are many inconsistencies from the last 3 witnesses in the hours before the disappearance and that is a red flag to any detective. I was inside no he was outside. Nonsense like that doesn't wash.
Nobody will be covering up anything or this case would have ended. They know the next move but will they take it.
-
My opinion is that you are deliberately misleading people by trying to insinuate that Amaral was the only member of the PJ who suspected the parents. In my opinion you can't know what people think about Amaral or his theories.
He wrote a book about them.
Or was that another big boy who did that and ran away too ???
-
Not to worry since my reply rather backs up what Davel was saying in his post. But while we are on the subject, please note what the thread topic is and attempt to post something along those lines. TY
What davel said in his post was opinion, not fact.
-
He wrote a book about them.
Or was that another big boy who did that and ran away too ???
He hardly ran away. I believe he faced them in court didn't he?
-
That is your opinion, which is not shared by everyone.
It seems it shared by SY and the, PJ.
Those are the ones that matter... Internet posters on forums don't matter
-
We know because the evidence supports it. The possibility that someone else saw Madeleine after her parents did is just an idea, a guess, a 'perhaps'. There is no evidence to support it, just the words of the parents.
This post is almost entirely opinion
-
He hardly ran away. I believe he faced them in court didn't he?
There seems to be a hypothesis that everyone else in the chain of command was responsible for the mess made of Madeleine's case during his tenure as coordinator of the investigation.
His book dismisses that theory while promulgating his many theories when he gives the impression that he was "the man".
Are you claiming Amaral lied in his book because he didn't really have the in depth influence and knowledge he claimed.
-
Who was that screaming and shouting at 10pm ???? I am afraid your interpretation of the facts falls rather short of accuracy and amounts in my opinion to yet another flawed theory doing the rounds of the internet.
Who heard screaming and shouting at 10pm?
-
Perhaps you could start a new thread & highlight the many suspicious inconsistencies in Murats account.
No.
-
There are many inconsistencies from the last 3 witnesses in the hours before the disappearance and that is a red flag to any detective. I was inside no he was outside. Nonsense like that doesn't wash.
Nobody will be covering up anything or this case would have ended. They know the next move but will they take it.
They’re taking their time aren’t they? What the hell is preventing them from monkey-catchee?
-
Who heard screaming and shouting at 10pm?
The Tapas group, 8 members in total. Are they all lying in your opinion? Are you of the opinion that there was no screaming and shouting?
-
Time's money and as long as they get the money, they'll take their time - 8(0(*
-
The Tapas group, 8 members in total. Are they all lying in your opinion? Are you of the opinion that there was no screaming and shouting?
Not from the patio of 5a directed across to the Tapas Bar.....which seems odd.
-
Time's money and as long as they get the money, they'll take their time - 8(0(*
That’s the most pathetic reason I’ve heard given for why the McCanns have not been arrested and charged. If money was a motivating factor in police investigations then no crime would ever get solved.
-
Not from the patio of 5a directed across to the Tapas Bar.....which seems odd.
What could the lack of shouting from the patio possibly mean then?
-
The Tapas group, 8 members in total. Are they all lying in your opinion? Are you of the opinion that there was no screaming and shouting?
Are they all telling the truth in your opinion? No one else in the Tapas complex reported screaming or shouting at 10pm.
-
What could the lack of shouting from the patio possibly mean then?
1. Kate forgot to shout
2. Kate shouted, but quietly
3. Kate was going to shout, but thought it better to leave the two other children to their potential fate and run over to the Tapas Bar to raise the alarm.
4. Kate decided not to shout so as to not wake the other two children.
5. Kate didn't shout as she didn't want to raise the alarm at that moment for another undetermined reason.
There's a few possible answers to your intriguing question.
-
Why on earth do I do this anymore?
-
1. Kate forgot to shout
2. Kate shouted, but quietly
3. Kate was going to shout, but thought it better to leave the two other children to their potential fate and run over to the Tapas Bar to raise the alarm.
4. Kate decided not to shout so as to not wake the other two children.
5. Kate didn't shout as she didn't want to raise the alarm at that moment for another undetermined reason.
There's a few possible answers to your intriguing question.
Thanks for your facetious response. Do you find the lack of shouting at that specific moment in any way suspicious or just odd?
-
Are they all telling the truth in your opinion? No one else in the Tapas complex reported screaming or shouting at 10pm.
Yes they are all telling the truth in my opinion, how about I get an answer from you?. Where are the witness statements from the other Tapas diners?
-
Who reported hearing Kate McCann scream “they’ve taken her”?
-
Where did this come from?
“Contrary to what Kate McCann told police, the tapas restaurant worker also said that Kate McCann did scream: "They've taken her, they've taken her" when she learnt Madeleine was missing.
He said instead of running back to the tapas bar where she was dining with her husband Gerry and friends, Mrs McCann raised the alarm from the balcony of their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz”.
-
Thanks for your facetious response. Do you find the lack of shouting at that specific moment in any way suspicious or just odd?
Pretty odd, knowing the Scouse female in intimate detail. None, and I mean none I have come across would opt to simply run across and then create a fuss, not if their husband was within earshot and not as an instinctive reaction.
But feel free to think I think it's also suspicious if you think it somehow discloses my real opinion.
-
Who reported hearing Kate McCann scream “they’ve taken her”?
"The f*****g b*****ds have taken her!"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccann-kate-gerry-screams-10350597
'They've taken her'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/kate-mccann-did-scream-theyve-taken-her-claims-new-nanny-witness-7300167.html
-
"The f*****g b*****ds have taken her!"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccann-kate-gerry-screams-10350597
'They've taken her'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/kate-mccann-did-scream-theyve-taken-her-claims-new-nanny-witness-7300167.html
Not much screaming from the balcony there then at circa 10pm. The b*****ds.
-
Gerry said it too, according to Philomena.
'He's absolutely uncontrollable. He's howling and screaming down the phone: "They've taken her, she's gone."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
-
Gerry said it too, according to Philomena.
'He's absolutely uncontrollable. He's howling and screaming down the phone: "They've taken her, she's gone."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
...at like 11.30 or so? The b*****ds!
-
Not much screaming from the balcony there then at circa 10pm. The b*****ds.
It wasn't the first thing she said apparently.
But we still have no explanation of who the f*****g b******s referred to were. (it wos the paedos wot dunnit)
'He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.'
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm
-
It wasn't the first thing she said apparently.
But we still have no explanation of who the f*****g b******s referred to were. (it wos the paedos wot dunnit)
'He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.'
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm
I'm shocked Graham was shocked; abduction by paedo gang is way more likely than 'just wandered off'. Come on Graham, keep up.
....unless Gerry knew about these paedo gangs before hand; before leaving the kids in an unlocked apartment, I mean.
-
Pretty odd, knowing the Scouse female in intimate detail. None, and I mean none I have come across would opt to simply run across and then create a fuss, not if their husband was within earshot and not as an instinctive reaction.
But feel free to think I think it's also suspicious if you think it somehow discloses my real opinion.
You know Kate in intimate detail?? Crikey, you kept that one quiet. Or are you suggesting that all Scouse females behave in precisely the same way in any given scenario?
-
Where did this come from?
“Contrary to what Kate McCann told police, the tapas restaurant worker also said that Kate McCann did scream: "They've taken her, they've taken her" when she learnt Madeleine was missing.
He said instead of running back to the tapas bar where she was dining with her husband Gerry and friends, Mrs McCann raised the alarm from the balcony of their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz”.
So this unnmamed Tapas waiter was made up by the Daily Mail then?
-
Deleting shortly if this carries on. And awarding Points.
-
You know Kate in intimate detail?? Crikey, you kept that one quiet. Or are you suggesting that all Scouse females behave in precisely the same way in any given scenario?
Read it back, lid.
The 'that I have come across' bit is a hint.
-
Pretty odd, knowing the Scouse female in intimate detail. None, and I mean none I have come across would opt to simply run across and then create a fuss, not if their husband was within earshot and not as an instinctive reaction.
But feel free to think I think it's also suspicious if you think it somehow discloses my real opinion.
The abduction theory is put out by the McCanns. I find it easy to disregard it even as a possibility.
Because . IF you KNEW your daughter had been abducted, any normal parent would shout very loudly “my daughter has been abducted help! help!” Or someone call the police.
Kate claims she said “Madeleine is gone” after running to the tapas area to alert the group. The reason I would give for their behaviour in those ‘crucial’ moments (if the crucial moments were between 9.30 and 10pm as they claim), is ; they all went back to the apartment to discuss what they were going to do, and what to explain to people about children being left alone every night. Especially, when there was sufficient child minding services available.
Not to mention their claim that they were like sitting in a garden like. So, if they are so close, as they claim then Kate would not have been required to shout very loud at all., OR leave the twins!
-
Read it back, lid.
The 'that I have come across' bit is a hint.
So. You’re from Scouseland. You must have encountered quite a few Scouse women in your time, and I’m not just talking about the ones you’ve known intimately, but ALL the ones you have ever encountered would behave in the same way? That’s some generalisation.
-
Read it back, lid.
The 'that I have come across' bit is a hint.
PS: “Lid”? I hope this is not a derivation of Thalidomide?
-
The abduction theory is put out by the McCanns. I find it easy to disregard it even as a possibility.
Because . IF you KNEW your daughter had been abducted, any normal parent would shout very loudly “my daughter has been abducted help! help!” Or someone call the police.
Kate claims she said “Madeleine is gone” after running to the tapas area to alert the group. The reason I would give for their behaviour in those ‘crucial’ moments (if the crucial moments were between 9.30 and 10pm as they claim), is ; they all went back to the apartment to discuss what they were going to do, and what to explain to people about children being left alone every night. Especially, when there was sufficient child minding services available.
Not to mention their claim that they were like sitting in a garden like. So, if they are so close, as they claim then Kate would not have been required to shout very loud at all., OR leave the twins!
I'd have my mobile in hand ringing the police immediately.
The excuses given are that they didn't know the number, seriously, who goes on holiday to a foreign paedophile hell hole & doesn't make a note of the emergency service number?
Then there's the language barrier, guaranteed if you stayed on the line long enough you would be put through to an English speaker imo
But Kate & Gerry tried none of that, despite the immediate paedo abduction certainty, it was left to Fiona to suggest to Matt that he goes to reception, while Kate screamed b*****ds.
-
The abduction theory is put out by the McCanns. I find it easy to disregard it even as a possibility.
Because . IF you KNEW your daughter had been abducted, any normal parent would shout very loudly “my daughter has been abducted help! help!” Or someone call the police.
Kate claims she said “Madeleine is gone” after running to the tapas area to alert the group. The reason I would give for their behaviour in those ‘crucial’ moments (if the crucial moments were between 9.30 and 10pm as they claim), is ; they all went back to the apartment to discuss what they were going to do, and what to explain to people about children being left alone every night. Especially, when there was sufficient child minding services available.
Not to mention their claim that they were like sitting in a garden like. So, if they are so close, as they claim then Kate would not have been required to shout very loud at all., OR leave the twins!
I've said for a long time abduction is the odds on favourite based on the evidence... and it seems SY agrees with me
-
I've said for a long time abduction is the odds on favourite based on the evidence... and it seems SY agrees with me
The evidence you rely on is based on parents statements-which has been shown to be inaccurate in some instances. Therefore, your theory is based on opinion.
SY have not said MBM was abducted as described by the parents. It seems you are havering.
-
I've said for a long time abduction is the odds on favourite based on the evidence... and it seems SY agrees with me
But not the PJ apparently, they don't know what happened. Just being awkward aren't they.
-
The evidence you rely on is based on parents statements-which has been shown to be inaccurate in some instances. Therefore, your theory is based on opinion.
SY have not said MBM was abducted as described by the parents. It seems you are havering.
Not just parents statements..
SY spokesman... However she left the apartment she was abducted.
The PJ have said the mccanns are not susoects and there's no evidence against them
-
But not the PJ apparently, they don't know what happened. Just being awkward aren't they.
At least the PJ aknowledged MBM came to some harm. Unlike the parents claiming she came to 'no harm'!. ???
The PJ were looking at woke and wandered, had an accident as far as I am aware. They obviously saw the McCann version as being questionable IMO.
-
At least the PJ aknowledged MBM came to some harm. Unlike the parents claiming she came to 'no harm'!. ???
The PJ were looking at woke and wandered, had an accident as far as I am aware. They obviously saw the stupidity of the McCann version right away.
If you read, the, archiving report you will see how wrong you are.. The pj rated woke, and, wandered as highly unlikely
-
I've said for a long time abduction is the odds on favourite based on the evidence... and it seems SY agrees with me
Strange that given no such evidence exists! ...but then you know that.
-
Strange that given no such evidence exists! ...but then you know that.
Plenty of circumstantial evidence....
-
Plenty of circumstantial evidence....
So let's revisit this topic.
Start a new thread, The Plenty Of Circumstantial Evidence Of Abduction.
Should give us something to talk about.
-
Plenty of circumstantial evidence....
An open window with only Kate's fingerprints identified?
I think posters need to discriminate between abducted from the bedroom or abducted from the street outside.
-
Strange that given no such evidence exists! ...but then you know that.
I've challenged posters to give a breakdown of the odds as they see them as, to what happened, to Maddie... No ones, had the conviction to answer
-
An open window?
That's one piece
-
The abduction theory is put out by the McCanns. I find it easy to disregard it even as a possibility.
Because . IF you KNEW your daughter had been abducted, any normal parent would shout very loudly “my daughter has been abducted help! help!” Or someone call the police.
Kate claims she said “Madeleine is gone” after running to the tapas area to alert the group. The reason I would give for their behaviour in those ‘crucial’ moments (if the crucial moments were between 9.30 and 10pm as they claim), is ; they all went back to the apartment to discuss what they were going to do, and what to explain to people about children being left alone every night. Especially, when there was sufficient child minding services available.
Not to mention their claim that they were like sitting in a garden like. So, if they are so close, as they claim then Kate would not have been required to shout very loud at all., OR leave the twins!
Sadly, your comments often aren't worth deleting.
-
An open window with only Kate's fingerprints identified?
I think posters need to discriminate between abducted from the bedroom or abducted from the street outside.
I think either is likely...I think it's highly unlikely the parents, are involved
-
The evidence you rely on is based on parents statements- imo
Therefore, your theory is based on opinion.
SY have not said MBM was abducted as described by the parents.imo
There is no need to put an IMO - Davel has said on many occasions what his evidence is based on.
there is no need to put IMO at the end of SY not agreeing /believing the parents account of an abduction. UNLESS you can provide a cite of them saying this.
Why not spend a little more time putting IMO on supporters posts?
So I stand by my post in its original format.
so..
".Not just parents statements..
SY spokesman... However she left the apartment she was abducted.
The PJ have said the mccanns are not susoects and there's no evidence against them"
you have more evidence? please share.
SY have not said MBM, was abducted. they do not know what crime has been commited.
The PJ said they are no longer suspects, as they were before at one point. It has been said many time the PJ said there do not HAVE ENOUGH evidence.
We do not know what the PJ think happened. They are not telling anyone. AND is has been reported SY recently claimed they may be looking at Walk and Wandered.
-
So. You’re from Scouseland. You must have encountered quite a few Scouse women in your time, and I’m not just talking about the ones you’ve known intimately, but ALL the ones you have ever encountered would behave in the same way? That’s some generalisation.
Pretty accurate. Feisty.
-
Sadly, your comments often aren't worth deleting.
But mine was apparently, with no reason given.
-
PS: “Lid”? I hope this is not a derivation of Thalidomide?
Scouse slang.
-
There is no need to put an IMO - Davel has said on many occasions what his evidence is based on.
there is no need to put IMO at the end of SY not agreeing /believing the parents account of an abduction. UNLESS you can provide a cite of them saying this.
Why not spend a little more time putting IMO on supporters posts?
So I stand by my post in its original format.
so..
".Not just parents statements..
SY spokesman... However she left the apartment she was abducted.
The PJ have said the mccanns are not susoects and there's no evidence against them"
you have more evidence? please share.
SY have not said MBM, was abducted. they do not know what crime has been commited.
The PJ said they are no longer suspects, as they were before at one point. It has been said many time the PJ said there do not HAVE ENOUGH evidence.
We do not know what the PJ think happened. They are not telling anyone. AND is has been reported SY recently claimed they may be looking at Walk and Wandered.
Concisely..
SY... However she left the apartment she was abducted
PJ... Parents not suspects, and no evidence against them.. The PJ have never said... Not enough evidence.. Please stick to the truth.
It's woke and wandered by the way
-
But mine was apparently, with no reason given.
I got points for pointing out discrimination by mods, I was told to put it on a particular thread. I did, and it was swiped from there as well.. *%87
but still (&^&
-
I got points for pointing out discrimination by mods, I was told to put it on a particular thread. I did, and it was swiped from there as well.. *%87
but still (&^&
That figures.
-
Concisely..
SY... However she left the apartment she was abducted
PJ... Parents not suspects, and no evidence against them.. The PJ have never said... Not enough evidence.. Please stick to the truth.
It's woke and wandered by the way
There's plenty of evidence that Maddie is dead.
-
I got points for pointing out discrimination by mods, I was told to put it on a particular thread. I did, and it was swiped from there as well.. *%87
but still (&^&
John must have done it. Take it up with him.
-
There's plenty of evidence that Maddie is dead.
I'm afraid the evidence would suggest that
-
Concisely..
SY... However she left the apartment she was abducted
PJ... Parents not suspects, and no evidence against them.. The PJ have never said... Not enough evidence.. Please stick to the truth.
It's woke and wandered by the way
]Were they specific about the abduction? for example was she removed/abducted by parents/ friends/ strangers?
Truth is not enough evidence.
It is suspects by the way>The PJ have said the mccanns are not susoects and there's no evidence against them"
circumstancial evidence. the window and shutters were closed. a door was left unlocked... erm...
-
I'm afraid the evidence would suggest that
It certainly would, she hasn't touched her bank account for starters.
-
]Were they specific about the abduction? for example was she removed/abducted by parents/ friends/ strangers?
Truth is not enough evidence.
It is suspects by the way>The PJ have said the mccanns are not susoects and there's no evidence against them"
circumstancial evidence. the window and shutters were closed. a door was left unlocked... erm...
I don't think your post answers either of the points I've made so best left there
-
I've said for a long time abduction is the odds on favourite based on the evidence... and it seems SY agrees with me
I've said by following that train of thought,its possibly why its still at the investigation stage,mind its a good job the PJ remain open minded,we have to consider other possibility's I believe were their last words on abduction.
-
I've said by following that train of thought,its possibly why its still at the investigation stage,mind its a good job the PJ remain open minded,we have to consider other possibility's I believe were their last words on abduction.
It seems neither consider the mccanns suspects... Which seems hard for sceptics to accept... Buts that's the reality imo
-
It seems neither consider the mccanns suspects... Which seems hard for sceptics to accept... Buts that's the reality imo
No is any one else it seems.
-
No is any one else it seems.
A German paedo who looks like Gerry, he dunnit.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10455887/madeleine-mccann-chief-suspect-not-martin-ney/
-
No is any one else it seems.
We don't know that
-
Notice Amaral is a top cop now @)(++(*
-
A German paedo who looks like Gerry, he dunnit.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10455887/madeleine-mccann-chief-suspect-not-martin-ney/
This is really bothering you isn’t it? Do you think Amaral has lost the plot or is this part of some Portuguese masterplan to reel in those pesky McCanns?
-
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/11/30/14/21649446-7741505-image-a-50_1575123173656.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/11/30/15/21649444-7741505-Goncalo_Amaral_pictured_claimed_last_year_MI5_spies_had_helped_t-a-77_1575128986141.jpg)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html
-
A German paedo who looks like Gerry, he dunnit.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10455887/madeleine-mccann-chief-suspect-not-martin-ney/
If its in that bastion of truth, the british press,then it'll soon be over.
-
A German paedo who looks like Gerry, he dunnit.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10455887/madeleine-mccann-chief-suspect-not-martin-ney/
It is a real likeness though.
-
If its in that bastion of truth, the british press,then it'll soon be over.
yeah well, we know the preferred outcomes:
Dead Paedo dun it
or
paedo in jail- won't confess dun it. ^*&&
But it doesn't answer the question how and where was she abducted from?
-
yeah well, we know the preferred outcomes:
Dead Paedo dun it
or
paedo in jail- won't confess dun it. ^*&&
But it doesn't answer the question how and where was she abducted from?
Window or door,door or window,apparently its all there in the files.
-
Please post On Topic ... ALL Off Topic posts will be removed TY
-
Please post On Topic ... ALL Off Topic posts will be removed TY
We are on topic! discussing theories? who do we believe and why. or which ones are too far out.
-
This is really bothering you isn’t it? Do you think Amaral has lost the plot or is this part of some Portuguese masterplan to reel in those pesky McCanns?
Is it?
You know that on my behalf do you?
-
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/11/30/14/21649446-7741505-image-a-50_1575123173656.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/11/30/15/21649444-7741505-Goncalo_Amaral_pictured_claimed_last_year_MI5_spies_had_helped_t-a-77_1575128986141.jpg)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html
Nice to see Amaral looking healthy.
The poor guy went from obese to emaciated, he looks well now.
-
Is it?
You know that on my behalf do you?
Just my observation based on the number of times you’ve mentioned it.
-
Nice to see Amaral looking healthy.
The poor guy went from obese to emaciated, he looks well now.
Mischevious tw... Him, I mean.
-
Oh My micro management- from people who do not care- are not bothered. We are all being observed, judged and probably someone has a whole file on posts they get upset about by sceptics. (&^&
Not on topic. but it went off topic by a supporter...
-
We are on topic! discussing theories? who do we believe and why. or which ones are too far out.
That was why the lifeguard couldn't save the drowning Hippy, he was just too far out man.
-
Is this perhaps the German, the latest reports are referring to?
-
According to the PJ files, the above-mentioned person’s surname is Meissner and his alias Handfriedrich. The other person is Frankel.
-
I’m really looking forward to hearing from a sceptic about how they have managed to process this revelation from the highly esteemed yet wronged Dr Amaral.
-
I’m really looking forward to hearing from a sceptic about how they have managed to process this revelation from the highly esteemed yet wronged Dr Amaral.
I looked at it with my eyes, then thought about it with my mind.
-
I looked at it with my eyes, then thought about it with my mind.
And you concluded....?
-
I, unlike some, appreciate witty posts.
I would be interested in seeing a few more details of this interview. Which Spanish TV programme was it, when was the interview conducted and what exactly was said? I don't see the UK tabloids as a reliable source of information.
-
I, unlike some, appreciate witty posts.
I would be interested in seeing a few more details of this interview. Which Spanish TV programme was it, when was the interview conducted and what exactly was said? I don't see the UK tabloids as a reliable source of information.
I dont see amaral as a reliable source of information
-
I, unlike some, appreciate witty posts.
I would be interested in seeing a few more details of this interview. Which Spanish TV programme was it, when was the interview conducted and what exactly was said? I don't see the UK tabloids as a reliable source of information.
The programme is named in the article, but I suppose as it was reported in the Mail then that's probably not the title at all. And I don't suppose for a moment Amaral actually said the police are looking at a German paedo, he probably said "The police are investigating the McCanns" and the Daily Mail made up some guff instead. Yes, that will be it.
-
The programme is named in the article, but I suppose as it was reported in the Mail then that's probably not the title at all. And I don't suppose for a moment Amaral actually said the police are looking at a German paedo, he probably said "The police are investigating the McCanns" and the Daily Mail made up some guff instead. Yes, that will be it.
Either you get humour or you don't.
Amaral pointed out that it wasn't him who mentioned Ney, it was the UK press. He also pointed out that the 'abductor' was 'similar, almost the same' to Gerry McCann, which Ney isn't.
-
Either you get humour or you don't.
Amaral pointed out that it wasn't him who mentioned Ney, it was the UK press. He also pointed out that the 'abductor' was 'similar, almost the same' to Gerry McCann, which Ney isn't.
Humour is subjective... It's not a matter of getting it or not.
I don't like jokes at maddies expense... Some do
-
I see that our most senior and highly respected sceptic G-Unit (who claims no one here believes the McCanns were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance) has liked Wonderfulspam’s facetious and nonsensical reply to my post. Does she too understand the interview with Amaral to mean “the parents dunnit”?
To be fair in the absence of an English transcript, it is a very good guess. Since as far as I can make out Amaral has dedicated himself to pushing that particular theme since 2007 using various theories which although patently nonsensical are avidly accepted by his following.
The 'swingers' ... the tennis bag ... the fridge ... and that is just for starters.
-
Either you get humour or you don't.
Amaral pointed out that it wasn't him who mentioned Ney, it was the UK press. He also pointed out that the 'abductor' was 'similar, almost the same' to Gerry McCann, which Ney isn't.
Oh I see, you're choosing to believe the Mail's coverage now are you? So you think Amaral's having a laugh, is that it? Where does the German paedo fit into it then? Is he a police suspect or not, in your view?
-
Oh I see, you're choosing to believe the Mail's coverage now are you? So you think Amaral's having a laugh, is that it? Where does the German paedo fit into it then? Is he a police suspect or not, in your view?
In my opinion when Amaral said what he did to Mark Saunokonoko he was suggesting that OG might be trying to close the case by involving a German paedophile. Then the UK newspapers raised the possibility that the man was Ney. Amaral was rejecting that possibility in the interview, saying it wasn't Ney he was talking about, it was someone else.
He also pointed out that in his opinion Gerry McCann or someone looking very similar to him was involved, and Ney looks nothing like him.
https://www.cuatro.com/enelpuntodemira/comisario-portugues-gonzalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-pedofilo_18_2857845411.html
-
In my opinion when Amaral said what he did to Mark Saunokonoko he was suggesting that OG might be trying to close the case by involving a German paedophile. Then the UK newspapers raised the possibility that the man was Ney. Amaral was rejecting that possibility in the interview, saying it wasn't Ney he was talking about, it was someone else.
He also pointed out that in his opinion Gerry McCann or someone looking very similar to him was involved, and Ney looks nothing like him.
https://www.cuatro.com/enelpuntodemira/comisario-portugues-gonzalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-pedofilo_18_2857845411.html
Can you provide a cite from this latest report where Amaral says Gerry McCann (or someone looking similar) was involved, ta. My interpretation is that Amaral is trying to excuse away the Smithman sighting by claiming this German paedo bears a physical resemblance to Gerry McCann. He does not say Gerry McCann was involved, not in this intereview anyway, in my opinion. And, what is more interesting is a) how did he come by this info (PJ leaking again?) and b) how does this information square with the oft voiced belief that the McCanns are still prime suspects?
-
In my opinion when Amaral said what he did to Mark Saunokonoko he was suggesting that OG might be trying to close the case by involving a German paedophile. Then the UK newspapers raised the possibility that the man was Ney. Amaral was rejecting that possibility in the interview, saying it wasn't Ney he was talking about, it was someone else.
He also pointed out that in his opinion Gerry McCann or someone looking very similar to him was involved, and Ney looks nothing like him.
https://www.cuatro.com/enelpuntodemira/comisario-portugues-gonzalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-pedofilo_18_2857845411.html
To use your words amaral is guessing based on smithman being the abductor and that the efits are accurate when it seems none of the Smiths saw the mans face...
As I said I dont think much if what amaral says... Perhaps
We will know when MI5 open their files.. Lol.
Some opinion and some fact
-
Interesting that Amaral is clearly entertaining the idea that Gerry wasn't involved now. What happened to his unshakeable belief in his own theory?
-
To use your words amaral is guessing based on smithman being the abductor and that the efits are accurate when it seems none of the Smiths saw the mans face...
As I said I dont think much if what amaral says... Perhaps
We will know when MI5 open their files.. Lol.
Some opinion and some fact
I also think he's referring to the Smith's evidence. The German paedophile is not part of his theory.
-
I also think he's referring to the Smith's evidence. The German paedophile is not part of his theory.
But M15 is which I think is, derisory
-
Interesting that Amaral is clearly entertaining the idea that Gerry wasn't involved now. What happened to his unshakeable belief in his own theory?
As he was talking about a line of enquiry being pursued by current police, why do you keep mixing it up with whatever theory Amaral personally has?
-
But M15 is which I think is, derisory
Libel!
-
As he was talking about a line of enquiry being pursued by current police, why do you keep mixing it up with whatever theory Amaral personally has?
It's a wind up. A rubbish one at that.
-
As he was talking about a line of enquiry being pursued by current police, why do you keep mixing it up with whatever theory Amaral personally has?
"He also pointed out that in his opinion Gerry McCann or someone looking very similar to him was involved" - G-Unit. Take it up with her.
-
It's a wind up. A rubbish one at that.
What are you on about?
-
I dont see amaral as a reliable source of information
Whyever not? He was after all privy to everything the police knew about the case and the parents unlike us cyber warriors.
-
Whyever not? He was after all privy to everything the police knew about the case and the parents unlike us cyber warriors.
So you reckon the PJ are still leaking info to him do you?
-
Whyever not? He was after all privy to everything the police knew about the case and the parents unlike us cyber warriors.
Because he didn't understand the evidence... Because he claimed things that we know were not true... Because he thinks M15 are involved... Because he, was convicted of lying to the court
-
Libel!
No, Amaral really does think that MI5 helped cover up Madeleine's death *%87
-
No, Amaral really does think that MI5 helped cover up Madeleine's death *%87
Derisory.
-
So you reckon the PJ are still leaking info to him do you?
I would hazard a guess that he still has friends within the PJ so work than one out for yourself. You do realise that police and former police have a tendency to socialize and chat when off duty?
-
I would hazard a guess that he still has friends within the PJ so work than one out for yourself. You do realise that police and former police have a tendency to socialize and chat when off duty?
It will be like an open tap of information.
All bizzies stick together, ex or current. And particularly ones who are willing to put their cock on the block for their subordinates.
-
Derisory.
Bloody ridiculous.
-
I would hazard a guess that he still has friends within the PJ so work than one out for yourself. You do realise that police and former police have a tendency to socialize and chat when off duty?
So the PJ are still leaking. Twas ever thus. I wonder how much Amaral charges for passing this info on to the media?
-
"He also pointed out that in his opinion Gerry McCann or someone looking very similar to him was involved" - G-Unit. Take it up with her.
*%87
There's nothing to take up. What are you on about?
-
It will be like an open tap of information.
All bizzies stick together, ex or current. And particularly ones who are willing to put their cock on the block for their subordinates.
I think his perjury was as much protecting himself ..if he was present during the beating that makes him complicit
-
*%87
There's nothing to take up. What are you on about?
G-Unit claimed that Amaral was of the opinion that Gerry OR SOMEONE THAT LOOKED LIKE GERRY was Smithman. What are YOU on about?
-
I think his perjury was as much protecting himself ..if he was present during the beating that makes him complicit
No, he was protecting his peeps. I've done it; covered for subordinates. That's what a decent boss does. You don't throw your men under the bus.
You must have let an indiscretion go unreported that a young dental nurse perpetrated in your back street, down at heel, hygienically questionable dental practice?
-
No, he was protecting his peeps. I've done it; covered for subordinates. That's what a decent boss does. You don't throw your men under the bus.
You must have let an indiscretion go unreported that a young dental nurse perpetrated in your back street, down at heel, hygienically questionable dental practice?
A decent cop does not cover for subordinates engaged in illegal activities.
-
A decent cop does not cover for subordinates engaged in illegal activities.
It's week one, day 3 of the training course. You do not sh** on your lads - that's not verbatim, but, you know, something like that.
-
G-Unit claimed that Amaral was of the opinion that Gerry OR SOMEONE THAT LOOKED LIKE GERRY was Smithman. What are YOU on about?
What? *%87
Amaral stated that the police were investigating a jailed German paedophile who looks like Gerry.
I take it you didn't have your Weetabix this morning.
-
No, he was protecting his peeps. I've done it; covered for subordinates. That's what a decent boss does. You don't throw your men under the bus.
You must have let an indiscretion go unreported that a young dental nurse perpetrated in your back street, down at heel, hygienically questionable dental practice?
Or he simply believed what he was told, that the woman threw herself down the stairs.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/cirpriano-casepj-inspectors-accused-at.html
-
Or he simply believed what he was told, that the woman threw herself down the stairs.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/cirpriano-casepj-inspectors-accused-at.html
True.
-
What? *%87
Amaral stated that the police were investigating a jailed German paedophile who looks like Gerry.
I take it you didn't have your Weetabix this morning.
You’ve clearly spent too long in foreign climes and have lost the ability to understand plain English. Haven’t you got a cadaver dog to train?
-
Or he simply believed what he was told, that the woman threw herself down the stairs.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/cirpriano-casepj-inspectors-accused-at.html
Blimey how very credulous of him, and he’s supposed to be a top notch detective too!
-
It's week one, day 3 of the training course. You do not sh** on your lads - that's not verbatim, but, you know, something like that.
No wonder there’s so much corruption in the police then if that’s the attitude.
-
No, he was protecting his peeps. I've done it; covered for subordinates. That's what a decent boss does. You don't throw your men under the bus.
You must have let an indiscretion go unreported that a young dental nurse perpetrated in your back street, down at heel, hygienically questionable dental practice?
Covering up police brutality isn't honourable.. In fact it undermines justice
-
You’ve clearly spent too long in foreign climes and have lost the ability to understand plain English. Haven’t you got a cadaver dog to train?
When all else fails, turn to ridicule.
KGB tactic #1.
(&^&
-
When all else fails, turn to ridicule.
KGB tactic #1.
(&^&
So what was the weetabix jibe then? Grow up old man, and try and brush up on your comprehension skills.
-
In my opinion when Amaral said what he did to Mark Saunokonoko he was suggesting that OG might be trying to close the case by involving a German paedophile. Then the UK newspapers raised the possibility that the man was Ney. Amaral was rejecting that possibility in the interview, saying it wasn't Ney he was talking about, it was someone else.
He also pointed out that in his opinion Gerry McCann or someone looking very similar to him was involved, and Ney looks nothing like him.
https://www.cuatro.com/enelpuntodemira/comisario-portugues-gonzalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-pedofilo_18_2857845411.html
So Amaral doesn’t seem to be as wholly committed to his theory as he once was, if he is entertaining the idea that the crime may have been committed by somebody who only bears a resemblance to Gerry.
-
So Amaral doesn’t seem to be as wholly committed to his theory as he once was, if he is entertaining the idea that the crime may have been committed by somebody who only bears a resemblance to Gerry.
It's an extremely simple story.
Amaral is describing a police line of investigation.
Got it?
-
It's an extremely simple story.
Amaral is describing a police line of investigation.
Got it?
The investigation isnt looking for someone who looks like Gerry...thats what you dont get
-
It's an extremely simple story.
Amaral is describing a police line of investigation.
Got it?
Then why does G-Unit tell us that in Amaral’s opinion Gerry McCann or someone who resembled him was involved? I know this is a sentence you simply cannot comprehend but that is what she has told the forum and it suggests that Amaral is not as steadfast in his beliefs as before, if he is entertaining the idea that the crime was committed by someone other than Gerry - if G-Unit is telling us the truth, that is.
-
Then why does G-Unit tell us that in Amaral’s opinion Gerry McCann or someone who resembled him was involved? I know this is a sentence you simply cannot comprehend but that is what she has told the forum and it suggests that Amaral is not as steadfast in his beliefs as before, if he is entertaining the idea that the crime was committed by someone other than Gerry - if G-Unit is telling us the truth, that is.
Amaral has described the jailed German paedophile as resembling Gerry.
Gerry is not a jailed German paedophile.
Gerry does not resemble Ney.
So it's not Ney and it's not Gerry.
Is that simple enough?
-
Amaral has described the jailed German paedophile as resembling Gerry.
Gerry is not a jailed German paedophile.
Gerry does not resemble Ney.
So it's not Ney and it's not Gerry.
Is that simple enough?
Did you watch Nicky Morgan on daytime tv trying to explain the Tory policy of recruiting 50,000 more nurses? Well in this instance I am Piers Morgan and you are Nicky Morgan. Look it up if you don’t understand the reference.
-
So the police are not looking at the McCanns. At least Amaral has confirmed this. So we can dispense with the notion that the police are waiting to pounce on the McCanns anytime soon. They are not suspects. Period.
-
So the police are not looking at the McCanns. At least Amaral has confirmed this. So we can dispense with the notion that the police are waiting to pounce on the McCanns anytime soon. They are not suspects. Period.
But I thought Amaral was proven liar, so how can you believe what he says ?
-
Did you watch Nicky Morgan on daytime tv trying to explain the Tory policy of recruiting 50,000 more nurses? Well in this instance I am Piers Morgan and you are Nicky Morgan. Look it up if you don’t understand the reference.
What's daytime TV got to do with anything?
&%%6
-
But I thought Amaral was proven liar, so how can you believe what he says ?
Well this was the question I asked at the beginning. How are sceptics processing this information? Either Amaral is talking bollocks or he isn’t. What do you think?
-
What's daytime TV got to do with anything?
&%%6
Go and have a siesta dear, you’ll feel better after a little nap.
-
Well this was the question I asked at the beginning. How are sceptics processing this information? Either Amaral is talking bollocks or he isn’t. What do you think?
No idea, as have neither seen, heard , or read anything he has produced for some considerable time.
I know he infuriates supporters, which is good, but I pay little heed to him as he is peripheral to any current activity.
-
No idea, as have neither seen, heard , or read anything he has produced for some considerable time.
I know he infuriates supporters, which is good, but I pay little heed to him as he is peripheral to any current activity.
You have seen what he claims in this latest report, or did you close your eyes when those posts appeared? He claims the police are looking at a German paedophile in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. You appear not to be the slightest bit interested, which is odd for someone who has been following the case for years. Ach well, nowt so queer as folk.
-
You have seen what he claims in this latest report, or did you close your eyes when those posts appeared? He claims the police are looking at a German paedophile in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. You appear not to be the slightest bit interested, which is odd for someone who has been following the case for years. Ach well, nowt so queer as folk.
No, no ,Its Amaral I'm not interested in, not the case in general.
I haven't read what he said as I only entered the thread partway through and haven't bothered reading back.
-
No, no ,Its Amaral I'm not interested in, not the case in general.
I haven't read what he said as I only entered the thread partway through and haven't bothered reading back.
Yeah right. Perhaps a sceptic who is following the thread has a view then. Or perhaps not.
-
Yeah right. Perhaps a sceptic who is following the thread has a view then. Or perhaps not.
It looks to me that he's responding to a question regarding the suspect, not necessarily contradicting his own narrative, but merely stating that the German wasn't the man in question pertaining to the 'new information'.
And he might be getting a few quid. I'd sell next door's cat for £20 (and they haven't even got one).
-
Yeah right. Perhaps a sceptic who is following the thread has a view then. Or perhaps not.
When the thread started it had nothing to do with Amaral, he just seems to have crept in part way through.
-
It looks to me that he's responding to a question regarding the suspect, not necessarily contradicting his own narrative, but merely stating that the German wasn't the man in question pertaining to the 'new information'.
And he might be getting a few quid. I'd sell next door's cat for £20 (and they haven't even got one).
which, if you believe him to be telling the truth (not just saying any old crap for £20) then the McCanns are not prime suspects, which some people who post here continue to believe.
-
Well this was the question I asked at the beginning. How are sceptics processing this information? Either Amaral is talking bollocks or he isn’t. What do you think?
I remember at the time of the interview when Amaral first mentioned the German pedophile, that to me it sounded as if the man in question had been arrested but not necessarily charged. As a result, I thought it may have related to a pedophile called Andreas V - who at that time had recently been arrested but not yet found guilty - images of him are scarce but he does look a bit like the thick set Smithman e-fit. What did stand out about him is that 1. The trial documented about 1000 cases of abuse in German starting from 2008...so I wonder where he was before that. 2. Pre-trial the police 'lost' a LOT of the evidence. 3. A bit like Raymond Hewlett he lived like a traveller. 4. He was able to foster a 6 year old female child even though there were years of rumours about him and children. 5. His victims were mostly girls and also very young victims. Anyhow, we will have to wait and see if it is him. Although, I did think it was interesting that Amaral dropped in the similarity to Gerry....it is almost as if he is making sure that if it turns out that the guy in question is the abductor, that he should be forgiven for his assumption that the abductor was Gerry.
-
I remember at the time of the interview when Amaral first mentioned the German pedophile, that to me it sounded as if the man in question had been arrested but not necessarily charged. As a result, I thought it may have related to a pedophile called Andreas V - who at that time had recently been arrested but not yet found guilty - images of him are scarce but he does look a bit like the thick set Smithman e-fit. What did stand out about him is that 1. The trial documented about 1000 cases of abuse in German starting from 2008...so I wonder where he was before that. 2. Pre-trial the police 'lost' a LOT of the evidence. 3. A bit like Raymond Hewlett he lived like a traveller. 4. He was able to foster a 6 year old female child even though there were years of rumours about him and children. 5. His victims were mostly girls and also very young victims. Anyhow, we will have to wait and see if it is him. Although, I did think it was interesting that Amaral dropped in the similarity to Gerry....it is almost as if he is making sure that if it turns out that the guy in question is the abductor, that he should be forgiven for his assumption that the abductor was Gerry.
My thought exactly.
-
I remember at the time of the interview when Amaral first mentioned the German pedophile, that to me it sounded as if the man in question had been arrested but not necessarily charged. As a result, I thought it may have related to a pedophile called Andreas V - who at that time had recently been arrested but not yet found guilty - images of him are scarce but he does look a bit like the thick set Smithman e-fit. What did stand out about him is that 1. The trial documented about 1000 cases of abuse in German starting from 2008...so I wonder where he was before that. 2. Pre-trial the police 'lost' a LOT of the evidence. 3. A bit like Raymond Hewlett he lived like a traveller. 4. He was able to foster a 6 year old female child even though there were years of rumours about him and children. 5. His victims were mostly girls and also very young victims. Anyhow, we will have to wait and see if it is him. Although, I did think it was interesting that Amaral dropped in the similarity to Gerry....it is almost as if he is making sure that if it turns out that the guy in question is the abductor, that he should be forgiven for his assumption that the abductor was Gerry.
Or rule out this look alike,back to the beginning it'll be,imo of course.Its taking OG an age to fathom it out,back in 2016 Hogan Howe talked of the last lead.
-
Or rule out this look alike,back to the beginning it'll be,imo of course.Its taking OG an age to fathom it out,back in 2016 Hogan Howe talked of the last lead.
Back in 2017 officers (all 4 of them) were said to have 'searched all over Europe' for that female suspect who held the key to solving the entire case!
I wonder whatever happened to her? Perhaps she was abducted.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-identify-new-female-suspect-madeleine-mccann-case-disappearance-portugal-metropolitan-police-a7711226.html
-
Back in 2017 officers (all 4 of them) were said to have 'searched all over Europe' for that female suspect who held the key to solving the entire case!
I wonder whatever happened to her? Perhaps she was abducted.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-identify-new-female-suspect-madeleine-mccann-case-disappearance-portugal-metropolitan-police-a7711226.html
Was that the woman in purple?
-
Was that the woman in purple?
No, it was Lady In Red, Chris De Burgh.
-
No, it was Lady In Red, Chris De Burgh.
I just love your amazing wit, sooooooooo funny.
-
I just love your amazing wit, sooooooooo funny.
Sarcasm is the lowest form I believe.
-
Sarcasm is the lowest form I believe.
Your cliches are so original too.
-
No, it was Lady In Red, Chris De Burgh.
Woman in purple, Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/criminologist-identifies-mysterious-woman-purple-11549497
-
Woman in purple, Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/criminologist-identifies-mysterious-woman-purple-11549497
Whilst, the press did jump onto Heriberto’s assumption that the Bulgarian woman in purple was a Portuguese OC worker married to a Bulgarian man, to be fair to OG, what the media had previously reported was that the police were looking for a Bulgarian woman who had been married to a German pedophile (who had since died). (Heriberto’s suggestion was not a match to that description.)
I also assume that the earlier description was likely accurate, as Amaral later confirmed that prior to the new suspect, OG had been investigating a dead German pedophile.
IMO, one can only assume that if OG intercepted a “chat room” conversation involving this new German pedophile - that much of the time that has passed may well have been utilised by OG in monitoring sites/chat rooms that their original suspect may have frequented. (If this is the case, OG may have felt that the dead suspect either had an accomplice or had been part of some kind of trafficking ring.)
-
Whilst, the press did jump onto Heriberto’s assumption that the Bulgarian woman in purple was a Portuguese OC worker married to a Bulgarian man, to be fair to OG, what the media had previously reported was that the police were looking for a Bulgarian woman who had been married to a German pedophile (who had since died). (Heriberto’s suggestion was not a match to that description.)
I also assume that the earlier description was likely accurate, as Amaral later confirmed that prior to the new suspect, OG had been investigating a dead German pedophile.
IMO, one can only assume that if OG intercepted a “chat room” conversation involving this new German pedophile - that much of the time that has passed may well have been utilised by OG in monitoring sites/chat rooms that their original suspect may have frequented. (If this is the case, OG may have felt that the dead suspect either had an accomplice or had been part of some kind of trafficking ring.)
I didn't see any reports that the man was German? The first report seems to have been in The Sun on 5th November 2017, where dead and paedophile was mentioned, but nothing about Germany.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
-
Thought there was some report of guy languishing in German prison, not that he was necessarily a German national, though I may be confused, as persons of interest seem to come and go as each one proves , in reality, to be of no interest.
-
I didn't see any reports that the man was German? The first report seems to have been in The Sun on 5th November 2017, where dead and paedophile was mentioned, but nothing about Germany.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
The best kind.
-
I didn't see any reports that the man was German? The first report seems to have been in The Sun on 5th November 2017, where dead and paedophile was mentioned, but nothing about Germany.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
"What has sparked police interest are reports that the Bulgarian woman’s German husband, who has since died, was a convicted paedophile."
Taken from:
https://balkaninsight.com/2017/11/06/hunt-for-missing-uk-child-moves-to-bulgaria-11-06-2017/
-
"What has sparked police interest are reports that the Bulgarian woman’s German husband, who has since died, was a convicted paedophile."
Taken from:
https://balkaninsight.com/2017/11/06/hunt-for-missing-uk-child-moves-to-bulgaria-11-06-2017/
That's interesting. The article quotes the Sun, but has added the information about the woman's husband being German, which wasn't written in the Sun's story.
-
That's interesting. The article quotes the Sun, but has added the information about the woman's husband being German, which wasn't written in the Sun's story.
That is true, however, I think the piece is from the Balkan Media....so I assume if OG were genuinely looking in the region their media possibly had more info than ours and perhaps let something slip something that they were not supposed to. Saying that, the only dead German pedophiles, I know of, associated with the case are the ones involved with the Peggy Knobloch case. There are "vacation" snaps of one of them - Uwe Mundlos - with the sea in the background - I wondered if anyone with better knowledge of Praia da Luz may recognise the view or the block of flats he is in. (It is a long shot and probably some other pedophile... but Peggy looked uncannily like an older version of Madeleine so may be worth looking into).
-
That is true, however, I think the piece is from the Balkan Media....so I assume if OG were genuinely looking in the region their media possibly had more info than ours and perhaps let something slip something that they were not supposed to. Saying that, the only dead German pedophiles, I know of, associated with the case are the ones involved with the Peggy Knobloch case. There are "vacation" snaps of one of them - Uwe Mundlos - with the sea in the background - I wondered if anyone with better knowledge of Praia da Luz may recognise the view or the block of flats he is in. (It is a long shot and probably some other pedophile... but Peggy looked uncannily like an older version of Madeleine so may be worth looking into).
At the moment I can't find the photos. You'll need to provide a link if you want my stab at where it is.
-
That is true, however, I think the piece is from the Balkan Media....so I assume if OG were genuinely looking in the region their media possibly had more info than ours and perhaps let something slip something that they were not supposed to. Saying that, the only dead German pedophiles, I know of, associated with the case are the ones involved with the Peggy Knobloch case. There are "vacation" snaps of one of them - Uwe Mundlos - with the sea in the background - I wondered if anyone with better knowledge of Praia da Luz may recognise the view or the block of flats he is in. (It is a long shot and probably some other pedophile... but Peggy looked uncannily like an older version of Madeleine so may be worth looking into).
That, of course, raises the question of why Bulgaria was mentioned if neither of the couple were Bulgarian.
-
That, of course, raises the question of why Bulgaria was mentioned if neither of the couple were Bulgarian.
The article states that she/wife was/is Bulgarian.....which is why I imagine Bulgaria was mentioned.
-
At the moment I can't find the photos. You'll need to provide a link if you want my stab at where it is.
Thanks SIL....it is a bit of a long shot, as it could be pretty much anywhere... but thought worth taking a look especially if you know the area well.
-
Thought there was some report of guy languishing in German prison, not that he was necessarily a German national, though I may be confused, as persons of interest seem to come and go as each one proves , in reality, to be of no interest.
That’s reality for all of them is it? And you know this how?
-
That’s reality for all of them is it? And you know this how?
Yup
-
Yup
And you know this how?
-
To be fair in the absence of an English transcript, it is a very good guess. Since as far as I can make out Amaral has dedicated himself to pushing that particular theme since 2007 using various theories which although patently nonsensical are avidly accepted by his following.
The 'swingers' ... the tennis bag ... the fridge ... and that is just for starters.
I sometimes wonder if people ' in the know', as Amaral almost certainly will be, have learned that someone, some people, are about to be charged with abduction etc?
So best to forget his previous totally incorrect theories pushed ... and back off from these theories and accusations against The Mccanns.
In other words cover his back? Best to go along with the latest police position? Maybe he fears that there will be a backlash against him ... or worse?
I have seen it happen on here before, when something important, illustrating the Polices belief in the innocence of The Mccanns, has happened in this case. Then some posters have stopped accusing The Mccanns, but still get at them in a subtle way.
-
Or he simply believed what he was told, that the woman threw herself down the stairs.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/cirpriano-casepj-inspectors-accused-at.html
A fairly senior Police Officer lying to The Courts ? To the detriment of the accused? Changing the Course of Justice?
No way. What are you thinking about praising Amaral for such a heinious crime ?
-
I remember at the time of the interview when Amaral first mentioned the German pedophile, that to me it sounded as if the man in question had been arrested but not necessarily charged. As a result, I thought it may have related to a pedophile called Andreas V - who at that time had recently been arrested but not yet found guilty - images of him are scarce but he does look a bit like the thick set Smithman e-fit. What did stand out about him is that 1. The trial documented about 1000 cases of abuse in German starting from 2008...so I wonder where he was before that. 2. Pre-trial the police 'lost' a LOT of the evidence. 3. A bit like Raymond Hewlett he lived like a traveller. 4. He was able to foster a 6 year old female child even though there were years of rumours about him and children. 5. His victims were mostly girls and also very young victims. Anyhow, we will have to wait and see if it is him. Although, I did think it was interesting that Amaral dropped in the similarity to Gerry....it is almost as if he is making sure that if it turns out that the guy in question is the abductor, that he should be forgiven for his assumption that the abductor was Gerry.
Covering his back ?
-
A fairly senior Police Officer lying to The Courts ? To the detriment of the accused? Changing the Course of Justice?
No way. What are you thinking about praising Amaral for such a heinious crime ?
I'm not convinced that Amaral lied. Obviously you would be.
-
I'm not convinced that Amaral lied. Obviously you would be.
So even though a court found him guilt of perjury you don’t think he lied?
-
I'm not convinced that Amaral lied. Obviously you would be.
Perhaps, he was, just incredibly gullible
We, need to look at what's, possible. According to the, court Cipriano was, beaten by members, if the, PJ. Was, amaral really unaware if this... Did his colleagues, feel they had, to lie, to him to cover it up.
Far more likely... Based on other, cases, too... This, was, almost standard practice, in the, pj imo.
Beat, a, suspect to get a, confession. That's, why I'm convinced, amaral lied
-
Strangely or maybe not when Amaral purported his theory he was the devil incarnate in some eye's, now he's linking some geezer in a prison to the investigation his word is his bond,go figure.
-
Strangely or maybe not when Amaral purported his theory he was the devil incarnate in some eye's, now he's linking some geezer in a prison to the investigation his word is his bond,go figure.
Amaral told Mark Saunokonoko that OG were interested in a German paedophile. The press later suggested it was Ney. Amaral then said it wasn't Ney it was someone else. At no point has he claimed this is his theory imo.
-
Amaral told Mark Saunokonoko that OG were interested in a German paedophile. The press later suggested it was Ney. Amaral then said it wasn't Ney it was someone else. At no point has he claimed this is his theory imo.
This is correct.
-
Strangely or maybe not when Amaral purported his theory he was the devil incarnate in some eye's, now he's linking some geezer in a prison to the investigation his word is his bond,go figure.
I think the difference between a good ~ bad ~ or indifferent theory is to start at the very beginning and base thinking entirely on the truth as it is known at the time and to take a reasonable time to consider and debate all the facts prior to jumping in.
There is no evidence that Amaral carried out any brainstorming exercises with his team or his superiors prior to formulating theories; there is evidence that he had made his mind up about the path his theory was to take him "right from the word go"; I think Robert Murat was never a serious contender as far as Amaral was concerned although he did make a case for investigating him in his book and it would have tied the case up in jig time if Jane Tanner had only played ball.
-
I think the difference between a good ~ bad ~ or indifferent theory is to start at the very beginning and base thinking entirely on the truth as it is known at the time and to take a reasonable time to consider and debate all the facts prior to jumping in.
There is no evidence that Amaral carried out any brainstorming exercises with his team or his superiors prior to formulating theories; there is evidence that he had made his mind up about the path his theory was to take him "right from the word go"; I think Robert Murat was never a serious contender as far as Amaral was concerned although he did make a case for investigating him in his book and it would have tied the case up in jig time if Jane Tanner had only played ball.
I believe that Amaral was interested in Robert Murat because he knew that The McCanns would have needed local help.
-
I believe that Amaral was interested in Robert Murat because he knew that The McCanns would have needed local help.
Probably all part of the learning curve; unfortunately he learned all the wrong lessons from Joana's case.
I would have thought that he would have realised there was no grand conspiracy when Jane didn't identify Murat. Or in his mind was that to protect a supposed fellow conspirator ... I would never presume to understand Amaral's bizarre thought processes except much must have been driven by his new found arguido status and the best wriggle for escaping the consequences of that being another successfully concluded prosecution.
Unfortunately for him and his career the McCanns were determined to find Madeleine which rather upset his chosen theory.
-
Probably all part of the learning curve; unfortunately he learned all the wrong lessons from Joana's case.
I would have thought that he would have realised there was no grand conspiracy when Jane didn't identify Murat. Or in his mind was that to protect a supposed fellow conspirator ... I would never presume to understand Amaral's bizarre thought processes except much must have been driven by his new found arguido status and the best wriggle for escaping the consequences of that being another successfully concluded prosecution.
Unfortunately for him and his career the McCanns were determined to find Madeleine which rather upset his chosen theory.
Well with an embarrassment of riches,OG can't ,just can't find anything to prove his theory is wrong.
Supporting evidence to the contary wouldn't go amiss considering the PJ in 2017 said in relation to the abduction theory,"we have to be prepared for different scenario's".
-
Well with an embarrassment of riches,OG can't ,just can't find anything to prove his theory is wrong.
Supporting evidence to the contary wouldn't go amiss considering the PJ in 2017 said in relation to the abduction theory,"we have to be prepared for different scenario's".
That's a celestial teapot argument... Just as no one can prove Maddie wasn't abducted by an alien spacecraft
-
Perhaps, he was, just incredibly gullible
We, need to look at what's, possible. According to the, court Cipriano was, beaten by members, if the, PJ. Was, amaral really unaware if this... Did his colleagues, feel they had, to lie, to him to cover it up.
Far more likely... Based on other, cases, too... This, was, almost standard practice, in the, pj imo.
Beat, a, suspect to get a, confession. That's, why I'm convinced, amaral lied
So your opinion is that it was 'almost standard practice' for the PJ to beat confessions out of suspects. (but can you prove that?)
If you can't prove it then you can't be convinced that Amaral lied, surely?
-
I think the difference between a good ~ bad ~ or indifferent theory is to start at the very beginning and base thinking entirely on the truth as it is known at the time and to take a reasonable time to consider and debate all the facts prior to jumping in.
There is no evidence that Amaral carried out any brainstorming exercises with his team or his superiors prior to formulating theories; there is evidence that he had made his mind up about the path his theory was to take him "right from the word go"; I think Robert Murat was never a serious contender as far as Amaral was concerned although he did make a case for investigating him in his book and it would have tied the case up in jig time if Jane Tanner had only played ball.
Reading Amaral's book he mentions discussions and meetings within the PJ team and between the PJ and UK police also. You really should accept that he didn't he didn't think or act alone.
-
This is getting laughable. If only it were funny.
-
So your opinion is that it was 'almost standard practice' for the PJ to beat confessions out of suspects. (but can you prove that?)
If you can't prove it then you can't be convinced that Amaral lied, surely?
I can't prove it to you... Because imo you are biased and don't accept evidence even when it's overwhelming.. Remember smoking and cancer.
Almeida was found guilty of torture.... I think it was Michael Cook who claimed to have been beaten.. Then other cases I've seen where suspects have confessed to the pj.
Are you really trying to claim amaral didn't know about the beating.. I find that absurd
-
I can't prove it to you... Because imo you are biased and don't accept evidence even when it's overwhelming.. Remember smoking and cancer.
Almeida was found guilty of torture.... I think it was Michael Cook who claimed to have been beaten.. Then other cases I've seen where suspects have confessed to the pj.
Are you really trying to claim amaral didn't know about the beating.. I find that absurd
Amaral seems to have been present in The Police Station for some of the time while the beating was going on. I simply do not believe that he didn't know.
-
Strangely or maybe not when Amaral purported his theory he was the devil incarnate in some eye's, now he's linking some geezer in a prison to the investigation his word is his bond,go figure.
Nope. You got that wrong. The question is - is he lying or has he been tipped off by the PJ? Which do you think?
-
So your opinion is that it was 'almost standard practice' for the PJ to beat confessions out of suspects. (but can you prove that?)
If you can't prove it then you can't be convinced that Amaral lied, surely?
Did he appeal his conviction?
-
Did he appeal his conviction?
I expect that information can be found if someone wants to find it.
-
Did he appeal his conviction?
Why bother?
-
I expect that information can be found if someone wants to find it.
It's been discussed before... He appealed
-
This is getting laughable. If only it were funny.
That was rather humorous but deadly serious.
-
Why bother?
He bothered
-
He bothered
And failed presumably.
-
And failed presumably.
Yes
whats significant imo is that the pj didnt seem to mind who knew they had tortured cipriano....It seems they felt they could do as they wanted and were untouchable
-
Well with an embarrassment of riches,OG can't ,just can't find anything to prove his theory is wrong.
Supporting evidence to the contary wouldn't go amiss considering the PJ in 2017 said in relation to the abduction theory,"we have to be prepared for different scenario's".
No-one requires to spend a brass farthing on any of Amaral's musings and I doubt if anyone either here nor in Portugal have ever paid him much never mind since independently reviewing the mess of an investigation he left behind him when he was sacked from Madeleine's case. IMLO of course.
-
Reading Amaral's book he mentions discussions and meetings within the PJ team and between the PJ and UK police also. You really should accept that he didn't he didn't think or act alone.
I really do accept "that he didn't think".
-
No-one requires to spend a brass farthing on any of Amaral's musings and I doubt if anyone either here nor in Portugal have ever paid him much never mind since independently reviewing the mess of an investigation he left behind him when he was sacked from Madeleine's case. IMLO of course.
Wrong.
-
And failed presumably.
His criminal conviction was upheld.
-
Wrong.
I may be wrong but I have outlined why I really believe I am absolutely correct in my assessment. What a shame you are unable to uphold your opinion in similar fashion not having the ground to stand on :) IMLO
-
Nope. You got that wrong. The question is - is he lying or has he been tipped off by the PJ? Which do you think?
Couldn't care less,the answer to the disappearance imo is not languishing in a foreign jail.
-
Couldn't care less,the answer to the disappearance imo is not languishing in a foreign jail.
I couldn't care less as to what amaral.. A convicted liar... Has to say
-
Nope. You got that wrong. The question is - is he lying or has he been tipped off by the PJ? Which do you think?
I think it shows there remains "wheels within wheels" with the old boy's network still breaking the secrecy law of an active criminal investigation.
-
I really do accept "that he didn't think".
I have offered evidence that;
Amaral was not in charge of the investigation and that the initial investigation did have brainstorming sessions. In my opinion your facetious replies are designed to deflect attention from your inability to find anything with which to refute that evidence.
-
I couldn't care less as to what amaral.. A convicted liar... Has to say
I some how doubt he know's nor cares.
-
I some how doubt he know's nor cares.
He's the one making public statements...interesting that he's talking about the present Portuguese investigation... Doesn't seem as though the mccanns are being investigated ..that must annoy him
-
He's the one making public statements...interesting that he's talking about the present Portuguese investigation... Doesn't seem as though the mccanns are being investigated ..that must annoy him
Or there again rule the look a like out,doesn't leave much room for manoeuvre does it?
-
Or there again rule the look a like out,doesn't leave much room for manoeuvre does it?
Do you really believe their aim is to rule everybody out then say... There's only the mccanns left... It has to be them.... Seriously
-
I wonder why OG are investigating paedophiles? (If they are, of course). It's unlikely that such people stole Madeleine in order to hand her over to someone who meant her no harm, is it not?
-
I wonder why OG are investigating paedophiles? (If they are, of course). It's unlikely that such people stole Madeleine in order to hand her over to someone who meant her no harm, is it not?
Now,Now G... they may have been reformed paedophiles. 8)--))
So Amaral and the PJ are evil personifed that goes a long way to solve the mystery of th disapearance of MBM. And thankfully the UK police are doing a better job at 'finding her'.
Amara did wrong- got caught and found himself punished.
Parents did wrong..... living a nice life not punished at all for anything regarding MBM's fate.
UK police do wrong...https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/25/highest-number-of-people-in-a-decade-die-in-police-custody
As Jebus says in the book- never mind checking out the small splint in someones eyes -check out that huge plank of Oak in yours dude... obviously not the King James version. or the RC version.
-
Now,Now G... they may have been reformed paedophiles. 8)--))
So Amaral and the PJ are evil personifed that goes a long way to solve the mystery of th disapearance of MBM. And thankfully the UK police are doing a better job at 'finding her'.
Amara did wrong- got caught and found himself punished.
Parents did wrong..... living a nice life not punished at all for anything regarding MBM's fate.
UK police do wrong...https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/25/highest-number-of-people-in-a-decade-die-in-police-custody
As Jebus says in the book- never mind checking out the small splint in someones eyes -check out that huge plank of Oak in yours dude... obviously not the King James version. or the RC version.
One should never stand in the way of a venomous anti- Portuguese rant, however pointless it is ?{)(**
-
One should never stand in the way of a venomous anti- Portuguese rant, however pointless it is ?{)(**
Oh Jass, Please accept my profound apologies- I don't know what came over me... Honsestly!
-
One should never stand in the way of a venomous anti- Portuguese rant, however pointless it is ?{)(**
I think you need to ask someone to explain to you the difference between being anti Portuguese and anti Portuguese police and justice system
-
I think you need to ask someone to explain to you the difference between being anti Portuguese and anti Portuguese police and justice system
I accept your differentiation, not that it makes the rants any more meaningful
-
I think you need to ask someone to explain to you the difference between being anti Portuguese and anti Portuguese police and justice system
Two out of three ain't bad. Thanks for being honest.
-
I accept your differentiation, not that it makes the rants any more meaningful
As meaningful as anything else posted on this forum
-
Two out of three ain't bad. Thanks for being honest.
I've never been anything but..... I'm very critical of the Portuguese system... Amaral.. Almeida and now Christaveo convicted criminals
-
I wonder why OG are investigating paedophiles? (If they are, of course). It's unlikely that such people stole Madeleine in order to hand her over to someone who meant her no harm, is it not?
You really have no idea what Scotland Yard may be investigating so why speculate particularly in the fashion you choose to do.
-
You really have no idea what Scotland Yard may be investigating so why speculate particularly in the fashion you choose to do.
What fashion is permissible under your watch?
-
You really have no idea what Scotland Yard may be investigating so why speculate particularly in the fashion you choose to do.
There has been quite a bit of speculation by the media and by members of the forum. I merely pointed out that some of the speculations here don't fit with the recent speculations in the media.
-
Do you really believe their aim is to rule everybody out then say... There's only the mccanns left... It has to be them.... Seriously
This is an oft expressed hope by several sceptics I have debated with and it really is quite barmy imo.
-
I wonder why OG are investigating paedophiles? (If they are, of course). It's unlikely that such people stole Madeleine in order to hand her over to someone who meant her no harm, is it not?
Do you believe there is a possibility that Amaral is lying or that his chums in the PJ are lying to him?
-
Do you believe there is a possibility that Amaral is lying or that his chums in the PJ are lying to him?
Lying about Operation Grange looking at a German paedophile? I've no idea, but the UK newspapers seem to have run with it and have speculated that it was Ney. Upon which he clarified that it wasn't Ney. Perhaps he got his information from a UK policeman, have you thought of that? Didn't some of them donate to his friend's GoFundMe appeal which enabled him to defend himself against the McCann's attack?
-
Lying about Operation Grange looking at a German paedophile? I've no idea, but the UK newspapers seem to have run with it and have speculated that it was Ney. Upon which he clarified that it wasn't Ney. Perhaps he got his information from a UK policeman, have you thought of that? Didn't some of them donate to his friend's GoFundMe appeal which enabled him to defend himself against the McCann's attack?
Hang on a minute. You think some UK cops supportive of Amaral would feed him misinformation (an ex-cop in Portugal notorious for his campaign against the McCsnns) that the investigation was focused on a specific German paedophile and that Amaral would be gullible enough to lap it up and spill the beans to the media? This seems a tortuous conspiracy theory too far as far as I’m concerned!
-
Hang on a minute. You think some UK cops supportive of Amaral would feed him misinformation (an ex-cop in Portugal notorious for his campaign against the McCsnns) that the investigation was focused on a specific German paedophile and that Amaral would be gullible enough to lap it up and spill the beans to the media? This seems a tortuous conspiracy theory too far as far as I’m concerned!
So you think the story that Operation Grange is looking at a German paedophile is a lie?
-
So you think the story that Operation Grange is looking at a German paedophile is a lie?
Afaiac... I don't know and I don't particularly care
-
So you think the story that Operation Grange is looking at a German paedophile is a lie?
No I don’t. Do you?
Why would police involved in Operation Grange tell Amaral what they were investigating though?
Also, fyi, I don’t believe there is any real evidence that any cops from the Met supported or continue to support Amaral.
-
No I don’t. Do you?
Why would police involved in Operation Grange tell Amaral what they were investigating though?
Also, fyi, I don’t believe there is any real evidence that any cops from the Met supported or continue to support Amaral.
I agree with the comment in UK police supporting amaral.. Total fantasy imo
-
No I don’t. Do you?
Why would police involved in Operation Grange tell Amaral what they were investigating though?
Also, fyi, I don’t believe there is any real evidence that any cops from the Met supported or continue to support Amaral.
The donation by British Police was very iffy. It was a lump sum attributed to several unnamed Police Officers, but largely thought to have come from PeterMac himself.
Although there was no direct proof.
-
Let’s pretend for a minute thst it’s true. There’s a bunch of UK police officers who support Amaral. Not only that but they are receiving information direct from Op Grange concerning sensitive info re: the investigation. They phone up Amaral and give him the juicy morsels concerning a German paedo. Why? Just so he can get a few quid by selling the story to the media?
Alternatively, these are Gonc supporting cops feeding him duff info - why?
-
I’m going for the Occam’s Razor principle here. Bent ex-cop is receiving insider info from his ex-colleagues who are renowned for leaking info about this case over the years, and the information is correct. The investigation is focused on stranger abduction and not the McCanns. Bent ex-cop is making a few quid peddling said leaked info to the press.
All IMO.
-
No I don’t. Do you?
Why would police involved in Operation Grange tell Amaral what they were investigating though?
Also, fyi, I don’t believe there is any real evidence that any cops from the Met supported or continue to support Amaral.
So you think Operation Grange is interested in a German paedophile? If so, then Amaral wasn't lying when he said that.
-
So you think Operation Grange is interested in a German paedophile? If so, then Amaral wasn't lying when he said that.
I never said he was. In fact I would say it’s almost certain that Op Grange are pursuing stranger abduction and not the McCanns, which is what I’ve been saying for years, but doubters continue to doubt,
-
I never said he was. In fact I would say it’s almost certain that Op Grange are pursuing stranger abduction and not the McCanns, which is what I’ve been saying for years, but doubters continue to doubt,
So if Amaral wasn't lying his information came from somewhere, and the UK police and the Portuguese police are possible sources as both would have access to it.
-
So if Amaral wasn't lying his information came from somewhere, and the UK police and the Portuguese police are possible sources as both would have access to it.
correct...you can speculate either...for what its worth
-
I never said he was. In fact I would say it’s almost certain that Op Grange are pursuing stranger abduction and not the McCanns, which is what I’ve been saying for years, but doubters continue to doubt,
Oh, sorry. I thought that's where you were going when you said he had repeated disinformation. So it was true?
-
Oh, sorry. I thought that's where you were going when you said he had repeated disinformation. So it was true?
You having a bad comprehension day or something? I suggest you read back.
-
So if Amaral wasn't lying his information came from somewhere, and the UK police and the Portuguese police are possible sources as both would have access to it.
I asked the question of those sceptics who seem to doubt the veracity of the German paedo story. Some people struggle to come to terms with the idea of either or both police forces concentrating on stranger abduction rather than the McCanns dunnit theory, insisting they are still suspects. All the evidence (including Amaral’s recent pronouncements) rather suggest otherwise. Do you agree or not?
-
I wonder why OG are investigating paedophiles? (If they are, of course). It's unlikely that such people stole Madeleine in order to hand her over to someone who meant her no harm, is it not?
In this post you seem to doubt that OG are investigating paedoes. Does that mean you doubt Amaral’s recent pronouncement?
-
In this post you seem to doubt that OG are investigating paedoes. Does that mean you doubt Amaral’s recent pronouncement?
I was thinking further about the latest news and remembered the report in late 2017 of OG flying out to Athens to meet a German ex con who had served time in Chania, Greece for people trafficking. (I thought at the time, if true, that it must have been an important lead to get OG a plane). It also seems from googling news at that time - that he would likely have served time when another German was arrested for his stash of extreme pedophilic material in Chania, Greece in 2015.
Anyhow, the Daily Beast, in their report, https://www.thedailybeast.com/madeleine-mccann-detectives-closing-in-on-new-lead-in-portugal-disappearance mentioned that they believed Ney had told another inmate something that only the kidnapper would have know. (I can’t imagine what that could be - perhaps something about undergarments, because it seems one of the only things we don’t know about Madeleine that night). Anyhow, I was thinking perhaps it wasn’t Ney that the PJ leak were hinting at, but rather someone German in a Greek jail, which would better explain OG getting on a plane to meet the German ex con. (The second lead in the article about someone recognising Ney in grainy footage from the Netflix documentary - doesn’t really make that much sense - I personally don’t recall seeing any grainy footage from the night in question in that Doc).
-
I was thinking further about the latest news and remembered the report in late 2017 of OG flying out to Athens to meet a German ex con who had served time in Chania, Greece for people trafficking. (I thought at the time, if true, that it must have been an important lead to get OG a plane). It also seems from googling news at that time - that he would likely have served time when another German was arrested for his stash of extreme pedophilic material in Chania, Greece in 2015.
Anyhow, the Daily Beast, in their report, https://www.thedailybeast.com/madeleine-mccann-detectives-closing-in-on-new-lead-in-portugal-disappearance mentioned that they believed Ney had told another inmate something that only the kidnapper would have know. (I can’t imagine what that could be - perhaps something about undergarments, because it seems one of the only things we don’t know about Madeleine that night). Anyhow, I was thinking perhaps it wasn’t Ney that the PJ leak were hinting at, but rather someone German in a Greek jail, which would better explain OG getting on a plane to meet the German ex con. (The second lead in the article about someone recognising Ney in grainy footage from the Netflix documentary - doesn’t really make that much sense - I personally don’t recall seeing any grainy footage from the night in question in that Doc).
Bolded bit, link to said story please.
-
From the beast article it seems OG aren't averse to commenting on an ongoing investigation,maybe its where Amaral solicited his Gerry look a like from.
Ney’s lawyer would not confirm to the The Daily Beast whether he has been questioned in the McCann affair, but Clarence Mitchell, the McCann family spokesman, told The Daily Beast that police had, in fact, talked to him. “It might be him and he fits the profile, he is a known predatory pedophile,” he said. “There is a degree of credibility it is Ney, but we cannot speculate.”
-
From the beast article it seems OG aren't averse to commenting on an ongoing investigation,maybe its where Amaral solicited his Gerry look a like from.
Ney’s lawyer would not confirm to the The Daily Beast whether he has been questioned in the McCann affair, but Clarence Mitchell, the McCann family spokesman, told The Daily Beast that police had, in fact, talked to him. “It might be him and he fits the profile, he is a known predatory pedophile,” he said. “There is a degree of credibility it is Ney, but we cannot speculate.”
Ha Ha
What is " it might be him" if not speculation ?
-
Ha Ha
What is " it may be him" if not speculation ?
I saw that....classic bull$£i7 from the Grandmaster Flash of bull$£i7. Roughly translated as 'this guy has nothing to do with this case whatsoever, but I'll neither confirm nor deny, but almost confirm, but not quite, to keep stoking the Paedo angle, coz that's mo job....WOOO!' [that's a Ravishing Rik Flair 'Woo' as well, for emphasis]
-
I saw that....classic bull$£i7 from the Grandmaster Flash of bull$£i7. Roughly translated as 'this guy has nothing to do with this case whatsoever, but I'll neither confirm nor deny, but almost confirm, but not quite, to keep stoking the Paedo angle, coz that's mo job....WOOO!' [that's a Ravishing Rik Flair 'Woo' as well, for emphasis]
You think the McCanns pay Mitchell to “keep stoking the paedo angle”? That’s pretty offensive.
-
You think the McCanns pay Mitchell to “keep stoking the paedo angle”? That’s pretty offensive.
Don't waste your time, Love. The General is here on a wind up, without even half a brain.
-
You think the McCanns pay Mitchell to “keep stoking the paedo angle”? That’s pretty offensive.
Who is offended?
-
Who is offended?
Not you, nothing offends you, but ignorance, stupidity and blatant nastiness offends me, crazy I know.
-
Not you, nothing offends you, but ignorance, stupidity and blatant nastiness offends me, crazy I know.
I never understand why people get offended on behalf of others, particularly those they claim not to know.
-
I never understand why people get offended on behalf of others, particularly those they claim not to know.
I’m not offended on behalf of others.
-
Hi KMC, do you know anything about this person, Meissner aka Handfriedrich and his accomplice named Frankel? The attached is from the pj files.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Hi KMC, do you know anything about this person, Meissner aka Handfriedrich and his accomplice named Frankel? The attached is from the pj files.
Hi Anthro, I have no idea about those two …or even if the one connected to Greece is someone OG is looking into. (He just happened to the only German pedophile who was briefly jailed at the same time/town as the other ex con, but there may be others that are not on the internet). All I would say is that although similarish in height, the one arrested in Greece would have been 41 in 2007 with dark hair, so definitely doesn’t match Handfredrich’s description... and I don’t think there is a description of Frankel, so I don’t know if he is similar to him.
-
Thank you, KMC. Do you perhaps have a picture and/or reference of the person you are referring to?
-
Here's Amaral's theory!
Gonçalo Amaral in El Mundo: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine corpse in the Beach
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lWXrpwC28yU/SMLku3zJxuI/AAAAAAAAC7s/JVgN-7kQaBQ/s320-R/1220677421_0.jpg)
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1857.msg58322#msg5832
_________________________________________________________
Q - So, what are we talking about?
Amaral - About an accident. The child could have fallen from a sofa, could have had an accident with Calpol (a sleeping solution). We never had access to the girl’s medical history, so we don’t know whether she was healthy or not. We can only speculate. There are many very strange details.
_________________________________________________________
And how do you hide the corpse of a girl of nearly four years old so that no one can't find it?
A – This is what we were investigating when I was dismissed from the case. I want to recall that there is an Irish man who claimed to have seen Gerry McCann with a girl in his arms, on his way towards the beach that same night. That testimony has been hidden. The dogs specialized in finding traces of blood and odour of cadaver, found both in the wall of the apartment and in the boot of the car that the McCann rented 23 days later.
_________________________________________________________
He wrote a book and he made a media career for himself built on theories such as those above; were they good, bad or average theories he has promulgated for all those years?
-
Here's Amaral's theory!
Gonçalo Amaral in El Mundo: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine corpse in the Beach
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lWXrpwC28yU/SMLku3zJxuI/AAAAAAAAC7s/JVgN-7kQaBQ/s320-R/1220677421_0.jpg)
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1857.msg58322#msg5832
_________________________________________________________
Q - So, what are we talking about?
Amaral - About an accident. The child could have fallen from a sofa, could have had an accident with Calpol (a sleeping solution). We never had access to the girl’s medical history, so we don’t know whether she was healthy or not. We can only speculate. There are many very strange details.
_________________________________________________________
And how do you hide the corpse of a girl of nearly four years old so that no one can't find it?
A – This is what we were investigating when I was dismissed from the case. I want to recall that there is an Irish man who claimed to have seen Gerry McCann with a girl in his arms, on his way towards the beach that same night. That testimony has been hidden. The dogs specialized in finding traces of blood and odour of cadaver, found both in the wall of the apartment and in the boot of the car that the McCann rented 23 days later.
_________________________________________________________
He wrote a book and he made a media career for himself built on theories such as those above; were they good, bad or average theories he has promulgated for all those years?
Amaral claims "There are many very strange details."
If that is a fact ... which of these 'strange details' have been proven or are they all figments of a febrile imagination which didn't have a grasp of what was going on around him ?
-
Good to see you giving him publicity 8((()*/
-
Good to see you giving him publicity 8((()*/
Top lad. He's looking well.
-
Amaral claims "There are many very strange details."
If that is a fact ... which of these 'strange details' have been proven or are they all figments of a febrile imagination which didn't have a grasp of what was going on around him ?
To be honest, I believe Gonçalo will always be haunted by the need to have his theory vindicated. I also believe that he genuinely holds the belief that Madeleine's parents were in some way involved in her disappearance. Unfortunately for him however, it would appear that the authorities are no closer to solving this case than he was 12 years ago.
-
I agree with Amaral's theory as it connects with the strange timelines. Matt 21:50 Gerry 22:13 - time to get real.
-
To be honest, I believe Gonçalo will always be haunted by the need to have his theory vindicated. I also believe that he genuinely holds the belief that Madeleine's parents were in some way involved in her disappearance. Unfortunately for him however, it would appear that the authorities are no closer to solving this case than he was 12 years ago.
OG will always be haunted imo by its failure,its seeing off numerous DCI's , commissioners plus assistant commissioners.
-
OG will always be haunted imo by its failure,its seeing off numerous DCI's , commissioners plus assistant commissioners.
Certainly it seems the graveyard for DCIs - probably other ranks as well
-
To be honest, I believe Gonçalo will always be haunted by the need to have his theory vindicated. I also believe that he genuinely holds the belief that Madeleine's parents were in some way involved in her disappearance. Unfortunately for him however, it would appear that the authorities are no closer to solving this case than he was 12 years ago.
But the PJ have made it clear the McCanns are not suspects and theres no evidence against them and i think its clear they are not being investigated
-
But the PJ have made it clear the McCanns are not suspects and theres no evidence against them and i think its clear they are not being investigated
But what is crystal clear is that the Policia Judiciaria and Scotland Yard have continued the investigation into the who, the what and the why of Madeleine's disappearance and at the moment I don't think there is any sign of them giving up on her just yet.
I think that in a nutshell knocks Amaral's theories into a cocked hat.
-
Best to wait for them to come up with their solution before discarding anyone else's - IMO
-
To be honest, I believe Gonçalo will always be haunted by the need to have his theory vindicated. I also believe that he genuinely holds the belief that Madeleine's parents were in some way involved in her disappearance. Unfortunately for him however, it would appear that the authorities are no closer to solving this case than he was 12 years ago.
I think he had so much invested in the vindication of his vendetta against Madeleine's parents from the word go that any consideration for Madeleine or her wellbeing went right out of the window along with the whooshing curtains.
In my opinion if he is waiting for any of his absurd and indeed vicious theories to come to fruition he is going to have a very long wait; much of his 'professional' support lies as we have seen with criminal cops himself not excluded; I think Amaral must be an embarrassment if not a total laughing stock as far as the guys conducting the case presently are concerned.
His investigation into Madeleine's case lasted a couple of months before he publicly changed tack completely and backed the wrong horse.
I think it is telling that the initial investigation into a missing child which lasted no more than three months had to be continued privately by her parents' initiative and continues to be under investigation more than twelve years after her disappearance.
-
The initial investigation lasted until the Portuguese closed the case and published their files.
Rather more than 3 months.
-
The initial investigation lasted until the Portuguese closed the case and published their files.
Rather more than 3 months.
Didn't they do well.
I don't think Amaral cared at all. He desperately needed The McCanns to be guilty. The man is a convicted criminal along with his best buddy who went down to The Algarve at the time that Leonor Cipriano suffered such awful injuries.
-
Didn't they do well.
I don't think Amaral cared at all. He desperately needed The McCanns to be guilty. The man is a convicted criminal along with his best buddy who went down to The Algarve at the time that Leonor Cipriano suffered such awful injuries.
I'm sure you feel better now you've got that out of your system, but it hardly advances matters. ?{)(**
-
I'm sure you feel better now you've got that out of your system, but it hardly advances matters. ?{)(**
Cooperation between posters,clear as day,nowt else happening,I've posted this before there is no update on special funding.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-funding-special-grant-applications
Transparency data
Police funding: special grant applications
Last updated 4 June 2018
-
I'm sure you feel better now you've got that out of your system, but it hardly advances matters. ?{)(**
I am appalled by the fact that Amaral was allowed to Coordinate the case of a missing child when he was already an arguido in the case of another missing child. This stinks of stupidity to me.
It isn't my place to advance matters, but you do sound rather angry, which I am not.
-
I am appalled by the fact that Amaral was allowed to Coordinate the case of a missing child when he was already an arguido in the case of another missing child. This stinks of stupidity to me.
It isn't my place to advance matters, but you do sound rather angry, which I am not.
Not me - cool at all times
I don't have spleen to vent 8(0(*
-
Not me - cool at all times
I don't have spleen to vent 8(0(*
The tone of your comments doesn't suggest this. Why should you care if I feel better or not? Why should you make such a pointless comment in the first place?
-
The tone of your comments doesn't suggest this. Why should you care if I feel better or not? Why should you make such a pointless comment in the first place?
I did wonder the point of yours about Amaral. Perhaps there wasn't one.
-
I did wonder the point of yours about Amaral. Perhaps there wasn't one.
You think that Amaral was an acceptable choice? He already had a Perjury Trial coming up, of which he was later convicted. And this was not Verbal Perjury. It was Written by Him.
How can you possibly believe a word he says?
I don't like verbal punch ups On Forum. I would much prefer to disagree. But don't attack me personally because I am much better at this than you are.
-
You think that Amaral was an acceptable choice? He already had a Perjury Trial coming up, of which he was later convicted. And this was not Verbal Perjury. It was Written by Him.
How can you possibly believe a word he says?
I don't like verbal punch ups On Forum. I would much prefer to disagree. But don't attack me personally because I am much better at this than you are.
I've always considered him irrelevant.
If the McCanns had done the same, they wouldn't now be trying to rehabilitate themselves through the medium of the European Court.
-
I've always considered him irrelevant.
If the McCanns had done the same, they wouldn't now be trying to rehabilitate themselves through the medium of the European Court.
In your opinion
-
In your opinion
....err, there's a clue....'I've always considered'.
-
....err, there's a clue....'I've always considered'.
I don't see that the McCanns are trying to rehabilitate themselves....that's opinion
-
I don't see that the McCanns are trying to rehabilitate themselves....that's opinion
Yes, it is.
-
Yes, it is.
I don't really know why I'm bothering to do this but jassi posted it as fact...does it matter..no...am i really bothered ..no. Perhaps i should just like jassi's post and be done with it
-
The initial investigation lasted until the Portuguese closed the case and published their files.
Rather more than 3 months.
Allow me to make myself clearer.
The investigation coordinated by Goncalo Amaral into Madeleine's disappearance lasted all of three months: thereafter the investigation coordinated by Amaral became the investigation into the culpability of Madeleine's parents in her disappearance.
When Amaral was sacked the investigation was taken over and coordinated by Paulo Rebello a dyed in the wool Policia Judiciaria man. Funnily enough I have never heard of Rebello dreaming up any theories but there is plenty of proof that he relied on evidence not not speculation.
Rebelo and the Policia Judiciaria turned up no evidence either against Kate and Gerry or Robert Murat. Which in my opinion shows the value of following evidence rather than following theories and it proves that much of not only the golden hours but the months and years of Madeleine's investigation have been tainted by Amaral's incompetence and Amaral's nonsensical theories.
I think the responsibility of ruining any chance of recovering a missing child is a pretty heavy burden for anyone to labour under, particularly for Amaral so it is no surprise he has spent his time in denial and so assiduously attempting to offload his incompetence and his blame.
-
I'm sure you feel better now you've got that out of your system, but it hardly advances matters. ?{)(**
Newsflash: nothing you have written on this forum has advanced matters either.
-
I don't really know why I'm bothering to do this but jassi posted it as fact...does it matter..no...am i really bothered ..no. Perhaps i should just like jassi's post and be done with it
Don't warn us, do it.
-
Don't warn us, do it.
Already have done... Liked all yours too
-
Already have done... Liked all yours too
Look at what they make you give.
-
Look at what they make you give.
Jason Bourne.
-
Gonçalo Amaral in El Mundo: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine corpse in the Beach
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lWXrpwC28yU/SMLku3zJxuI/AAAAAAAAC7s/JVgN-7kQaBQ/s320-R/1220677421_0.jpg)
Snip
Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.
A - So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory. Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.
Q - When you raised the hypothesis that the girl might have died after falling off the sofa, did Kate McCann answer?
A - She did not answer, she just dropped her head for a moment, as if she was about to faint. She had an emotional collapse that lasted just a moment.
Q - And Gerry McCann?
A – He is a very strong person, dominant. He's a surgeon, a man capable of making decisions very quickly. That was good for him to be able to decide over Madeleine. If you have to hide the body, you must decide quickly. And it could only be hidden on the beach, and you have to take her on foot. This is where the statements from the Irish witness is important, the one that no one has taken into account.
Q - What is your opinion?
A - To me, Gerry hid Madeleine's body on the beach. And after a few days he moved her with his car. We work following this lead. Trying to find out the date of the switch, some details, but we were on the way. The Irish was about to arrive in Portugal, but everything was delayed too much, he even received external pressures. In the end, he didn't testify for the Police.
__________________________________________________________________
I think it is important to measure the quality and the failure of Amaral's theories. Not only did they shape the conduct of the Amarel led investigation into Kate and Gerry McCann when the Policia Judiciaria wrote Madeleine off as dead, Amaral's theories although largely based on false premises are still believed by a few.
Amaral really is a bare faced and consummate liar and this El Mundo interview is peppered with them.
He never met Kate McCann.
Gerry McCann didn't have a car at the time Amaral suggests and even if he had ... how did he manage under the glare of publicity to go to the beach ... dig up a body ... transfer it to the car boot Keela inspected ... and into oblivion.
All under the watchful eye of the Judicial police ???
The Irish witness did testify for the police in May 2007 ... the problem Amaral has there is that the police totally ignored his testimony for months until Kate and Gerry were arguidos when he changed it.
All in all this theory did not stand up to proper scrutiny so was a pretty rubbish one built on lies.
-
Gonçalo Amaral in El Mundo: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine corpse in the Beach
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lWXrpwC28yU/SMLku3zJxuI/AAAAAAAAC7s/JVgN-7kQaBQ/s320-R/1220677421_0.jpg)
Snip
Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.
A - So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory. Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.
Q - When you raised the hypothesis that the girl might have died after falling off the sofa, did Kate McCann answer?
A - She did not answer, she just dropped her head for a moment, as if she was about to faint. She had an emotional collapse that lasted just a moment.
Q - And Gerry McCann?
A – He is a very strong person, dominant. He's a surgeon, a man capable of making decisions very quickly. That was good for him to be able to decide over Madeleine. If you have to hide the body, you must decide quickly. And it could only be hidden on the beach, and you have to take her on foot. This is where the statements from the Irish witness is important, the one that no one has taken into account.
Q - What is your opinion?
A - To me, Gerry hid Madeleine's body on the beach. And after a few days he moved her with his car. We work following this lead. Trying to find out the date of the switch, some details, but we were on the way. The Irish was about to arrive in Portugal, but everything was delayed too much, he even received external pressures. In the end, he didn't testify for the Police.
__________________________________________________________________
I think it is important to measure the quality and the failure of Amaral's theories. Not only did they shape the conduct of the Amarel led investigation into Kate and Gerry McCann when the Policia Judiciaria wrote Madeleine off as dead, Amaral's theories although largely based on false premises are still believed by a few.
Amaral really is a bare faced and consummate liar and this El Mundo interview is peppered with them.
He never met Kate McCann.
Gerry McCann didn't have a car at the time Amaral suggests and even if he had ... how did he manage under the glare of publicity to go to the beach ... dig up a body ... transfer it to the car boot Keela inspected ... and into oblivion.
All under the watchful eye of the Judicial police ???
The Irish witness did testify for the police in May 2007 ... the problem Amaral has there is that the police totally ignored his testimony for months until Kate and Gerry were arguidos when he changed it.
All in all this theory did not stand up to proper scrutiny so was a pretty rubbish one built on lies.
If 'Amaral's' theories are believed only by 'a few', why are you so obsessed with discrediting him?
-
Idle hands are the devils workshop.
-
If 'Amaral's' theories are believed only by 'a few', why are you so obsessed with discrediting him?
Thought I'd missed something and there's an alleged miscarriage of justice.
-
If 'Amaral's' theories are believed only by 'a few', why are you so obsessed with discrediting him?
Because he's evil, evil I tell you. @)(++(*
Not that it makes a jot of difference , but its a feel-good factor for certain supporters
IMO
-
If 'Amaral's' theories are believed only by 'a few', why are you so obsessed with discrediting him?
I am afraid you will have to be a bit more explicit in your accusation.
Did Amaral give an interview to El Mundo ?
Have I quoted Amaral's own answers to the Journalist's questions ?
The answer to both those questions is "YES" is it not ?
That being the case please explain in words of one syllable in which way I am misrepresenting Amaral when I quote verbatim the innuendos and lies he and his following have been using for over twelve years for the sole purpose of misrepresenting and abusing Kate and Gerry McCann.
His theories are based on nothing except his own suspicions which have long since proven false ... I do understand your embarrassment when the reasons for Amaral's assumptions are shown by him in the light of day and all in his own words too.
-
Because he's evil, evil I tell you. @)(++(*
Not that it makes a jot of difference , but its a feel-good factor for certain supporters
IMO
Because this, that. Love it. The horse is galloping off in to the distance. 'Gonzo, did you leave ferkin the gate open?'
-
I am afraid you will have to be a bit more explicit in your accusation.
Did Amaral give an interview to El Mundo ?
Have I quoted Amaral's own answers to the Journalist's questions ?
The answer to both those questions is "YES" is it not ?
That being the case please explain in words of one syllable in which way I am misrepresenting Amaral when I quote verbatim the innuendos and lies he and his following have been using for over twelve years for the sole purpose of misrepresenting and abusing Kate and Gerry McCann.
His theories are based on nothing except his own suspicions which have long since proven false ... I do understand your embarrassment when the reasons for Amaral's assumptions are shown by him in the light of day and all in his own words too.
You didn't understand my point? If Amaral only influenced 'a few' people surely there's no need to keep moaning about him for twelve years? Perhaps you need to move on.
-
You didn't understand my point? If Amaral only influenced 'a few' people surely there's no need to keep moaning about him for twelve years? Perhaps you need to move on.
Perhaps the authoress was of that ilk.
-
You didn't understand my point? If Amaral only influenced 'a few' people surely there's no need to keep moaning about him for twelve years? Perhaps you need to move on.
As the mccanns are not suspects in either investigation isn't it about time you and others moved on
-
When OG identify and successfully prosecute the perp, we may be able to.
-
You didn't understand my point? If Amaral only influenced 'a few' people surely there's no need to keep moaning about him for twelve years? Perhaps you need to move on.
Not your business is it.
-
When OG identify and successfully prosecute the perp, we may be able to.
What if there's little or no evidence against the perp but they confess after a severe beating... That should be OK shouldn't it
-
When OG identify and successfully prosecute the perp, we may be able to.
What if there's little or no evidence against the perp but they confess after a severe beating... That should be OK shouldn't it
Is that how OG work?
-
Is that how OG work?
It's on record that this is how the pj have worked.... And sceptics have accepted it.
Grange won't be arresting or prosecuting anyone... It's a pj investigation
-
Not your business is it.
Why not?
-
It's on record that this is how the pj have worked.... And sceptics have accepted it.
Grange won't be arresting or prosecuting anyone... It's a pj investigation
Yeh, but will Grange be dishing out pastings?
I love the naivety of the general public in regard to police brutality in the UK. It's quaint.
-
It's on record that this is how the pj have worked.... And sceptics have accepted it.
Grange won't be arresting or prosecuting anyone... It's a pj investigation
At least recognition of what a limited role OG have.
-
Yeh, but will Grange be dishing out pastings?
I love the naivety of the general public in regard to police brutality in the UK. It's quaint.
Rubbish
-
Entente cordial soon ended with the non liking of post's. 8(>((
-
As the mccanns are not suspects in either investigation isn't it about time you and others moved on
If some can reject the findings of the first investigation others can reject the pronouncements of the subsequent ones. Choice!
-
At least recognition of what a limited role OG have.
It's taken a long time, but as you say, the light has finally been seen.
-
It's taken a long time, but as you say, the light has finally been seen.
More rubbish... As you haven't qualified your post with an opinion then I won't either
-
If some can reject the findings of the first investigation others can reject the pronouncements of the subsequent ones. Choice!
The archiving report... The first investigation found no evidence of a crime by the mccanns. Neither has, the second.
I go by the evidence not the opinion of a convicted liar
-
You didn't understand my point? If Amaral only influenced 'a few' people surely there's no need to keep moaning about him for twelve years? Perhaps you need to move on.
I understand your point only too well just as I understand the point of the puerile deflections which plague the board and would be better discussed on the thread about improvement if anyone was really interested.
Perhaps those who really should realise that everyone else has "moved on" are those stuck with the flies in the web of Amaral's lies daily regurgitating every false premise he ever dreamed up in the hopes of saving and furthering his career.
After clearing up the mess he and his theories left behind him the authorities are doing now what he was incapable of doing and that is properly conducting an investigation at the time into what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Please don't insult yourself by claiming "a big boy dunnit and ran way"; Amaral "dunnit" and has been the poster boy for it by dint of extolling that fact for over twelve years.
Amaral's influence on Madeleine's case was a total and utter disaster. His baseless theories are the stuff of nonsense and none more so than his hypothesis involving a deep freezer complete with his anonymous eye witnesses who appear nowhere but in his imagination.
Snip
"The little girl died in that apartment" - Gonçalo Amaral on TVI
GA: If we take into account that, if we consider the traces that were found in the car boot…
JP: … which are in fact…
GA: … which are in fact from the little girl. In order to justify that bodily fluid as the lab says, it could only have been preserved and conserved in the cold because otherwise it would have been…
JP: That means that…
GA: … in an advanced state of decomposition, at least it’s a hypothesis. Therefore it’s a question of a deep freezer, or something similar, and there we had to search for it and that was what we were doing. This means, the contacts that they had, where they went, where they were seen… There are people who say that they were seen entering an apartment block near the cemetery in Praia da Luz. At that point in time we weren’t able to detect which apartment they entered, who lived there, because it’s also a bit complicated because you have to understand it’s a tourist area and often it’s not known who the apartment belongs to.
-
I understand your point only too well just as I understand the point of the puerile deflections which plague the board and would be better discussed on the thread about improvement if anyone was really interested.
Perhaps those who really should realise that everyone else has "moved on" are those stuck with the flies in the web of Amaral's lies daily regurgitating every false premise he ever dreamed up in the hopes of saving and furthering his career.
After clearing up the mess he and his theories left behind him the authorities are doing now what he was incapable of doing and that is properly conducting an investigation at the time into what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Please don't insult yourself by claiming "a big boy dunnit and ran way"; Amaral "dunnit" and has been the poster boy for it by dint of extolling that fact for over twelve years.
Amaral's influence on Madeleine's case was a total and utter disaster. His baseless theories are the stuff of nonsense and none more so than his hypothesis involving a deep freezer complete with his anonymous eye witnesses who appear nowhere but in his imagination.
Snip
"The little girl died in that apartment" - Gonçalo Amaral on TVI
GA: If we take into account that, if we consider the traces that were found in the car boot…
JP: … which are in fact…
GA: … which are in fact from the little girl. In order to justify that bodily fluid as the lab says, it could only have been preserved and conserved in the cold because otherwise it would have been…
JP: That means that…
GA: … in an advanced state of decomposition, at least it’s a hypothesis. Therefore it’s a question of a deep freezer, or something similar, and there we had to search for it and that was what we were doing. This means, the contacts that they had, where they went, where they were seen… There are people who say that they were seen entering an apartment block near the cemetery in Praia da Luz. At that point in time we weren’t able to detect which apartment they entered, who lived there, because it’s also a bit complicated because you have to understand it’s a tourist area and often it’s not known who the apartment belongs to.
Absolutely... I watched a video of Poulton last month singing amarals praises.... The alerts, from the digs, with a 100% record... That the, FFS, destroyed or lost the dna... Practically everything she said was untrue
-
I understand your point only too well just as I understand the point of the puerile deflections which plague the board and would be better discussed on the thread about improvement if anyone was really interested.
Perhaps those who really should realise that everyone else has "moved on" are those stuck with the flies in the web of Amaral's lies daily regurgitating every false premise he ever dreamed up in the hopes of saving and furthering his career.
After clearing up the mess he and his theories left behind him the authorities are doing now what he was incapable of doing and that is properly conducting an investigation at the time into what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Please don't insult yourself by claiming "a big boy dunnit and ran way"; Amaral "dunnit" and has been the poster boy for it by dint of extolling that fact for over twelve years.
Amaral's influence on Madeleine's case was a total and utter disaster. His baseless theories are the stuff of nonsense and none more so than his hypothesis involving a deep freezer complete with his anonymous eye witnesses who appear nowhere but in his imagination.
Snip
"The little girl died in that apartment" - Gonçalo Amaral on TVI
GA: If we take into account that, if we consider the traces that were found in the car boot…
JP: … which are in fact…
GA: … which are in fact from the little girl. In order to justify that bodily fluid as the lab says, it could only have been preserved and conserved in the cold because otherwise it would have been…
JP: That means that…
GA: … in an advanced state of decomposition, at least it’s a hypothesis. Therefore it’s a question of a deep freezer, or something similar, and there we had to search for it and that was what we were doing. This means, the contacts that they had, where they went, where they were seen… There are people who say that they were seen entering an apartment block near the cemetery in Praia da Luz. At that point in time we weren’t able to detect which apartment they entered, who lived there, because it’s also a bit complicated because you have to understand it’s a tourist area and often it’s not known who the apartment belongs to.
So amaral states, as a fact that the traces in the car come from Maddie... And people, still take this man seriously
-
Mark Rowley 2017:MR: Whilst we’ve got some lead ideas there is still a lot of unknown on this case. We’ve got a young girl gone missing 10 years ago. Until we get to the point where we have solved it, we’re unlikely to
have definitive evidence as to exactly what happened at the time. All the hypothesises that you or I
could come up with, they all have to remain open and the key lines of enquiry open today focus on
one or two of those areas but we have to keep them all open until we get to that critical piece of
evidence that narrows it down and helps us to be more confident as to exactly what has happened on
the day Maddie went missing.
At no point does he rule out Amarals theory,hard to stomach but hey ho.
-
Absolutely... I watched a video of Poulton last month singing amarals praises.... The alerts, from the digs, with a 100% record... That the, FFS, destroyed or lost the dna... Practically everything she said was untrue
As if Poulton has some standing.
-
I understand your point only too well just as I understand the point of the puerile deflections which plague the board and would be better discussed on the thread about improvement if anyone was really interested.
Perhaps those who really should realise that everyone else has "moved on" are those stuck with the flies in the web of Amaral's lies daily regurgitating every false premise he ever dreamed up in the hopes of saving and furthering his career.
After clearing up the mess he and his theories left behind him the authorities are doing now what he was incapable of doing and that is properly conducting an investigation at the time into what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Please don't insult yourself by claiming "a big boy dunnit and ran way"; Amaral "dunnit" and has been the poster boy for it by dint of extolling that fact for over twelve years.
Amaral's influence on Madeleine's case was a total and utter disaster. His baseless theories are the stuff of nonsense and none more so than his hypothesis involving a deep freezer complete with his anonymous eye witnesses who appear nowhere but in his imagination.
Snip
"The little girl died in that apartment" - Gonçalo Amaral on TVI
GA: If we take into account that, if we consider the traces that were found in the car boot…
JP: … which are in fact…
GA: … which are in fact from the little girl. In order to justify that bodily fluid as the lab says, it could only have been preserved and conserved in the cold because otherwise it would have been…
JP: That means that…
GA: … in an advanced state of decomposition, at least it’s a hypothesis. Therefore it’s a question of a deep freezer, or something similar, and there we had to search for it and that was what we were doing. This means, the contacts that they had, where they went, where they were seen… There are people who say that they were seen entering an apartment block near the cemetery in Praia da Luz. At that point in time we weren’t able to detect which apartment they entered, who lived there, because it’s also a bit complicated because you have to understand it’s a tourist area and often it’s not known who the apartment belongs to.
You really think you're onto something, don't you? Meanwhile the only people who might be interested in your Amaral-bashing are the 'few' he influenced.
-
As if Poulton has some standing.
It seems some think she has... How foolish
-
At no point does he rule out Amarals theory,hard to stomach but hey ho.
Not at all... He doesn't bother stating the obvious
Amarals theory requires it possible for a 4 yr oldchild to die within minutes of rilling off a sofa... Impossible... Amaral rules out his own theory based in it's impossibility imo
-
You really think you're onto something, don't you? Meanwhile the only people who might be interested in your Amaral-bashing are the 'few' he influenced.
What a strange post ;)
How can I possibly be accused of so called Amaral bashing when I am using his own words translated into English verbatim by volunteer translators.
Instead of directing ad hom accusations at me in your posts ... why not challenge or defend the content of my posts. As far as I am concerned that is the point of being a member of a discussion forum.
This thread concerns the quality of theories.
It is my contention that the investigation into Madeleine McCann's case was blown out of the water by the nonsensical and unprofessional theories contrived by the coordinator of her case Goncalo Amaral.
So far no-one has been able to refute a word I have posted so I must be making sense. Very interesting.
-
What a strange post ;)
How can I possibly be accused of so called Amaral bashing when I am using his own words translated into English verbatim by volunteer translators.
Instead of directing ad hom accusations at me in your posts ... why not challenge or defend the content of my posts. As far as I am concerned that is the point of being a member of a discussion forum.
This thread concerns the quality of theories.
It is my contention that the investigation into Madeleine McCann's case was blown out of the water by the nonsensical and unprofessional theories contrived by the coordinator of her case Goncalo Amaral.
So far no-one has been able to refute a word I have posted so I must be making sense. Very interesting.
It is my contention that Amaral's theories were as good as if not better than those of the McCanns.
-
It is my contention that Amaral's theories were as good as if not better than those of the McCanns.
Certainly as good, as neither have been proved to be true or false - as yet.
-
It is my contention that Amaral's theories were as good as if not better than those of the McCanns.
And that's all it us your contention... Neither of the two present investigations seem to agree with you
-
You didn't understand my point? If Amaral only influenced 'a few' people surely there's no need to keep moaning about him for twelve years? Perhaps you need to move on.
How about you do the same re: the McCanns? Fat chance of that!
-
It is my contention that Amaral's theories were as good as if not better than those of the McCanns.
@)(++(* There’s none so blind, etc. What aspect of Amaral’s theory do you consider good and credible? Based on what?
-
@)(++(* There’s none so blind, etc. What aspect of Amaral’s theory do you consider good and credible? Based on what?
Did I describe his theories as good and credible or was that you? I compared it to the McCann's theories. Neither has been proved to be correct.
-
I see the spirit of Christmas has broken out.
Mine's a Moscow Mule. If I get some limes.
(&^&
-
Did I describe his theories as good and credible or was that you? I compared it to the McCann's theories. Neither has been proved to be correct.
Either Amaral’s theories are credible or they’re not - which is it?
-
Either Amaral’s theories are credible or they’re not - which is it?
Just like the McCann's theories it's a matter of opinion.
-
Just like the McCann's theories it's a matter of opinion.
Its a matter of evidence
-
Just like the McCann's theories it's a matter of opinion.
Oh, I forgot. Just like Jeremy Corbyn you don’t do opinions.
-
Its a matter of evidence
Really?
-
Really?
Groundhog day,again and again and again......
-
It is my contention that Amaral's theories were as good as if not better than those of the McCanns.
Then why not make the attempt to justify your opinion with first hand evidence as I have done when expressing my opinion.
Amaral's theories were certainly not good enough for the Judicial police who inherited the morass left behind when he was sacked from the case.
Madeleine: New police chief's fury over the mess he inherited from his predecessor
Sunday 21 October 2007
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.
According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
Following Amaral's removal after he criticised British police, Rebelo, one of Portugal's national deputy police chiefs, is reviewing the whole forensic investigation because of earlier procedural errors.
__________________________________________________________________
It was assumed that because Rebelo had brought in experts to his team, in particular a renowned murder specialist Antonio Teixeira, that as well as digitising the hand written notes inherited from Amaral and his team he was following the same theory concerning Madeleine's parents.
He wasn't though.
He was checking out the options and Kate and Gerry checked out squeaky clean.
__________________________________________________________________
A colleague said: "By bringing him onto the case, the police are sending out a clear sign that the main lead as far as they concerned is homicide.
"You don't invest effort in that sort of hypothesis with just the slight suspicion a violent crime has taken place. Antonio is a breath of fresh air for this investigation. If he has to choose between the direct route and a more roundabout one, he chooses the first to resolve a crime.
"And he always gets it right."
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
Therefore official police investigators don't take slightest bit of interest in Amaral's theorising. Not the Policia Judiciaria investigation which followed immediately on from the debacle left by him. Not by the specialist team brought in by Rebelo particularly Antonio Teixeira. Not today's Policia Judiciaria. Nor today's Scotland Yard.
So what does that tell you about Amaral's theories.
-
Then why not make the attempt to justify your opinion with first hand evidence as I have done when expressing my opinion.
Amaral's theories were certainly not good enough for the Judicial police who inherited the morass left behind when he was sacked from the case.
Madeleine: New police chief's fury over the mess he inherited from his predecessor
Sunday 21 October 2007
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.
According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
Following Amaral's removal after he criticised British police, Rebelo, one of Portugal's national deputy police chiefs, is reviewing the whole forensic investigation because of earlier procedural errors.
__________________________________________________________________
It was assumed that because Rebelo had brought in experts to his team, in particular a renowned murder specialist Antonio Teixeira, that as well as digitising the hand written notes inherited from Amaral and his team he was following the same theory concerning Madeleine's parents.
He wasn't though.
He was checking out the options and Kate and Gerry checked out squeaky clean.
__________________________________________________________________
A colleague said: "By bringing him onto the case, the police are sending out a clear sign that the main lead as far as they concerned is homicide.
"You don't invest effort in that sort of hypothesis with just the slight suspicion a violent crime has taken place. Antonio is a breath of fresh air for this investigation. If he has to choose between the direct route and a more roundabout one, he chooses the first to resolve a crime.
"And he always gets it right."
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
Therefore official police investigators don't take slightest bit of interest in Amaral's theorising. Not the Policia Judiciaria investigation which followed immediately on from the debacle left by him. Not by the specialist team brought in by Rebelo particularly Antonio Teixeira. Not today's Policia Judiciaria. Nor today's Scotland Yard.
So what does that tell you about Amaral's theories.
First hand evidence from the newspapers? Here's what the first investigation concluded;
While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
That means they couldn't decide what happened, so all possibilities remained, including Amaral's theories and those of the McCanns.
-
First hand evidence from the newspapers? Here's what the first investigation concluded;
While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
That means they couldn't decide what happened, so all possibilities remained, including Amaral's theories and those of the McCanns.
Does that mean all possibilities have equal weight?
-
Amaral’s theory is that Madeleine died more or less instantly in a fall off a sofa having been given calpol, that her father took her body in his arms and marched it through the streets of PdL before closing time to bury it on the beach, then returned back to the apartment where an abduction was staged, then a few days later (in a car) the McCanns revisted the beach, dug up the body and re-hid it, all while being subject to the most intense media and police attention.
And people believe this theory is MORE credible than the one which suggests some stranger(s) entered an unlocked apartment during a brief window of opportunity while the parents and their friendd were at dinner and removed Madeleine from it, in a matter of a few short minutes.
I know which theory sounds more credible to me and it sure as hell ain’t Amaral’s.
-
First hand evidence from the newspapers? Here's what the first investigation concluded;
While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
That means they couldn't decide what happened, so all possibilities remained, including Amaral's theories and those of the McCanns.
Amaral's theory resulted in Kate and Gerry becoming arguidos. The prosecutors did not agree with that, did they?
Snip
b) The archiving of the Process concerning arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.
Article 277 number 3 of the Penal Process Code is to be fulfilled.
Under article 214 number 1 item a) of the Penal Process Code, the coercion measures that have been imposed on the arguidos are declared extinct.
Portimão, 21.07.08
The Republic’s Prosecutor
(José de Magalhães e Menezes)
The Joint General Prosecutor
(João Melchior Gomes)
in: Processo 201/07.0 GALGS – Volume XVII – pages 4639-4649 (Public Prosecutor’s Archiving Dispatch)
_______________________________________________________________________
Which makes a nonsense of Amaral's theories regarding Kate and Gerry ... so that's another one bites the dust.
-
Amaral's theory resulted in Kate and Gerry becoming arguidos. The prosecutors did not agree with that, did they?
Snip
b) The archiving of the Process concerning arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.
Article 277 number 3 of the Penal Process Code is to be fulfilled.
Under article 214 number 1 item a) of the Penal Process Code, the coercion measures that have been imposed on the arguidos are declared extinct.
Portimão, 21.07.08
The Republic’s Prosecutor
(José de Magalhães e Menezes)
The Joint General Prosecutor
(João Melchior Gomes)
in: Processo 201/07.0 GALGS – Volume XVII – pages 4639-4649 (Public Prosecutor’s Archiving Dispatch)
_______________________________________________________________________
Which makes a nonsense of Amaral's theories regarding Kate and Gerry ... so that's another one bites the dust.
All theories were tested and none were chosen as more likely. Although the prosecutor thought she was more likely to be dead than alive.
it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
-
All theories were tested and none were chosen as more likely. Although the prosecutor thought she was more likely to be dead than alive.
it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Perhaps that was the problem: they were all “medium men” therefore not the sharpest tools in the box.
-
Does that mean all possibilities have equal weight?
Pretty much so according to Rowley in 2017.
All the hypothesises that you or I could come up with, they all have to remain open and the key lines of enquiry open today focus on one or two of those areas but we have to keep them all open until we get to that critical piece of evidence that narrows it down and helps us to be more confident as to exactly what has happened on
the day Maddie went missing.
-
Pretty much so according to Rowley in 2017.
All the hypothesises that you or I could come up with, they all have to remain open and the key lines of enquiry open today focus on one or two of those areas but we have to keep them all open until we get to that critical piece of evidence that narrows it down and helps us to be more confident as to exactly what has happened on
the day Maddie went missing.
Was this before or after he made it clear the McCanns weren’t suspects?
-
I don't see amarals theory as being possible. How can a nearly four year old child fall off a sofa and die in the timeframe suggested... It simply is impossible. Why can't anaral see this
-
I don't see amarals theory as being possible. How can a nearly four year old child fall off a sofa and die in the timeframe suggested... It simply is impossible. Why can't anaral see this
Why does it matter,Amaral is history, the investigation as moved on,although as the anti christ in supporters eyes I can see why the need to drag him in when all else is quiet.
-
Was this before or after he made it clear the McCanns weren’t suspects?
He said they had not been investigated by OG.
Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the
original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was
all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of
investigation.
-
I don't see amarals theory as being possible. How can a nearly four year old child fall off a sofa and die in the timeframe suggested... It simply is impossible. Why can't anaral see this
That was a hypothesis belonging to Encarnacao, not Amaral specifically. Death in the apartment is clearly possible.
-
That was a hypothesis belonging to Encarnacao, not Amaral specifically. Death in the apartment is clearly possible.
Death from what cause.... I'm fairly sure it was amaral who described a fall due to the effects of calpol
-
Death from what cause.... I'm fairly sure it was amaral who described a fall due to the effects of calpol
Gonçalo Amaral in El Mundo: Gerry McCann hid Madeleine corpse in the Beach
Q - So, what are we talking about?
A - About an accident. The child could have fallen from a sofa, could have had an accident with Calpol (a sleeping solution). We never had access to the girl’s medical history, so we don’t know whether she was healthy or not. We can only speculate. There are many very strange details.
_________________________________________________________________________
Q - What do you think that could have happened that night?
A - Both the British and Portuguese police, and even the prosecutor, who has already changed his mind, thought the same. We talked about death by others, not murder. In the room blood and cadaver odour was found just below a window where a sofa was. The father was talking to a friend just outside that window for a while. The girl did not have a a heavy sleep, that's what the parents said. Perhaps she heard her father and climbed to the sofa bellow the window. But the parents, for the girl not to go out,moved it away from the wall. Madeleine could have fallen.
Q - The girl falls from the sofa, dies with the blow and the parents find her.
A - The mother. It is the mother who finds the girl dead.
_________________________________________________________________________
I really don't think a "big boy dunnit" as some allege; if he did the direction in which he ran was to the nearest journalist or TV studio to keep on pushing his very failed hypothesis.
-
Death from what cause.... I'm fairly sure it was amaral who described a fall due to the effects of calpol
Arguing about the cause of death isn't useful. What is clear is that death is as likely as abduction. In fact it's more likely statistically. One hundred million to one for abduction, according to Gerry McCann.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id212.htm
-
Arguing about the cause of death isn't useful. What is clear is that death is as likely as abduction. In fact it's more likely statistically. One hundred million to one for abduction, according to Gerry McCann.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id212.htm
Hoisted by your own calpol.
Good old Gonzo, top sleuth and top lad.
-
Arguing about the cause of death isn't useful. What is clear is that death is as likely as abduction. In fact it's more likely statistically. One hundred million to one for abduction, according to Gerry McCann.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id212.htm
No it isn't. For death to have occurred there has to be a reason. Death from a head injury... Unless in a car crash or something similar... Is due to a subdural haematoma which takes hours to develop.
After 12 years I don't see that parental involvement has the same likelihood as abduction. Yet again you are, stating your opinion as fact... Perhaps you think it is... It isnt
-
Arguing about the cause of death isn't useful. What is clear is that death is as likely as abduction. In fact it's more likely statistically. One hundred million to one for abduction, according to Gerry McCann.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id212.htm
I thought you understood statistics.
Gerry was referring to the odds of Maddie being abducted..before she disappeared. I think his odds are about right. The odds of her having been abducted are odds on imo
-
Calpol in those days had no sleep inducing content.
-
I thought you understood statistics.
Gerry was referring to the odds of Maddie being abducted..before she disappeared. I think his odds are about right. The odds of her having been abducted are odds on imo
It certainly is the proposition which both Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria are pursuing. I think it would take quite a stretch of the imagination to suppose they have arrived at that stage without thoroughly investigating all the alternatives before deciding on following that course of action.
They have all the intelligence and information which enables them to justify investigating Madeleine's abduction to their bosses. The rest of us have to rely on working it out using common sense.
-
No it isn't. For death to have occurred there has to be a reason. Death from a head injury... Unless in a car crash or something similar... Is due to a subdural haematoma which takes hours to develop.
After 12 years I don't see that parental involvement has the same likelihood as abduction. Yet again you are, stating your opinion as fact... Perhaps you think it is... It isnt
So your only argument is still about the method of death. I'm discussing the likelihood of death compared to the likelihood of abduction. The prosecutor found it 'more likely' that the child was dead.
-
I thought you understood statistics.
Gerry was referring to the odds of Maddie being abducted..before she disappeared. I think his odds are about right. The odds of her having been abducted are odds on imo
Depends on your viewpoint. The 'chances of anything coming from Mars, were a million to one, he said'. But to the aliens it was a certainty.
-
It certainly is the proposition which both Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria are pursuing. I think it would take quite a stretch of the imagination to suppose they have arrived at that stage without thoroughly investigating all the alternatives before deciding on following that course of action.
They have all the intelligence and information which enables them to justify investigating Madeleine's abduction to their bosses. The rest of us have to rely on working it out using common sense.
Well that's you knackered then.
-
So your only argument is still about the method of death. I'm discussing the likelihood of death compared to the likelihood of abduction. The prosecutor found it 'more likely' that the child was dead.
I think you are, wrong yet again.. The prosecutor did not compare the likelihood of abduction compared to death... That's your third mistake this morning I think
-
Depends on your viewpoint. The 'chances of anything coming from Mars, were a million to one, he said'. But to the aliens it was a certainty.
It doesn't depend on viewpoint.. It depends on facts. Gunit has misunderstood gerrys claim
-
It doesn't depend on viewpoint.. It depends on facts. Gunit has misunderstood gerrys claim
Depends on your viewpoint. If the aliens knew they were coming, then it's a certainty - but the stupid humans had it at about 1,000,000 - 1. It's about data.
Insider trading, footballers betting on their own team to lose - they've got data that tells them the 'real' odds, as opposed to the 'official' odds.
-
Depends on your viewpoint. If the aliens knew they were coming, then it's a certainty - but the stupid humans had it at about 1,000,000 - 1. It's about data.
Insider trading, footballers betting on their own team to lose - they've got data that tells them the 'real' odds, as opposed to the 'official' odds.
Gerry made his observation on the available facts..
Obviously if an abduction was being planned.. The odds would be different.. Perhaps it was... But gerry didn't know
-
It certainly is the proposition which both Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria are pursuing. I think it would take quite a stretch of the imagination to suppose they have arrived at that stage without thoroughly investigating all the alternatives before deciding on following that course of action.
They have all the intelligence and information which enables them to justify investigating Madeleine's abduction to their bosses. The rest of us have to rely on working it out using common sense.
Pedro Do Carmo 2017: we don't know what happened and have to prepared for different scenarios,'this was in answer to the question,do you accept the girl was abducted,so no PJ are not wedded to one particular theory.
-
It certainly is the proposition which both Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria are pursuing. I think it would take quite a stretch of the imagination to suppose they have arrived at that stage without thoroughly investigating all the alternatives before deciding on following that course of action.
They have all the intelligence and information which enables them to justify investigating Madeleine's abduction to their bosses. The rest of us have to rely on working it out using common sense.
One would like to think so but somehow I doubt it. Amaral was there on the scene and saw events first hand whereas SY appeared years later. I tend to go with those who saw what occurred first hand and experienced firsthand the fear in the eyes of those suspected of being involved.
For SY, hindsight is a wonderful luxury.
-
One would like to think so but somehow I doubt it. Amaral was there on the scene and saw events first hand whereas SY appeared years later. I tend to go with those who saw what occurred first hand and experienced firsthand the fear in the eyes of those suspected of being involved.
For SY, hindsight is a wonderful luxury.
I tend to go with those who have an understanding of the evidence... Amaral clearly didn't. In the documentary he claimed he would prove in the following hour Maddie died in the apartment... He failed miserably
-
One would like to think so but somehow I doubt it. Amaral was there on the scene and saw events first hand whereas SY appeared years later. I tend to go with those who saw what occurred first hand and experienced firsthand the fear in the eyes of those suspected of being involved.
For SY, hindsight is a wonderful luxury.
Did amaral ever meet the mccanns
-
Did amaral ever meet the mccanns
Nope. Except in Court. And that wasn't exactly meeting.
-
He said they had not been investigated by OG.
Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the
original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was
all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of
investigation.
So he made it clear that parental involvement was not one of the theories on the table, cheers for that. 8((()*/
-
Depends on your viewpoint. If the aliens knew they were coming, then it's a certainty - but the stupid humans had it at about 1,000,000 - 1. It's about data.
Insider trading, footballers betting on their own team to lose - they've got data that tells them the 'real' odds, as opposed to the 'official' odds.
Say the odds of being struck by lightning in a lifetime are 50,000 to one. You find a singed corpse on the 18th hole after a thunderstorm- what are the odds that death was caused by a lightning strike?
-
Say the odds of being struck by lightning in a lifetime are 50,000 to one. You find a singed corpse on the 18th hole after a thunderstorm- what are the odds that death was caused by a lightning strike?
What if the lightning refused to answer police questions?
-
What if the lightning refused to answer police questions?
What a stupid question, IMO.
-
Gerry made his observation on the available facts..
Obviously if an abduction was being planned.. The odds would be different.. Perhaps it was... But gerry didn't know
Hence the comment 'depends on your viewpoint', which you've now just agreed with.
-
Say the odds of being struck by lightning in a lifetime are 50,000 to one. You find a singed corpse on the 18th hole after a thunderstorm- what are the odds that death was caused by a lightning strike?
Depends. That 50,000 - 1 will be a very vague average across humanity, which will include scientists who study lightning and, conversely, hermits who don't budge from a cave for 70 years. Golf dude increases his chances many fold by walking out on the course in a storm. But your example isn't the same - it's not certain, but way more likely.
The actual odds from the perspective of the aliens is odds on - sappenin' hoomans WOO!
-
I tend to go with those who have an understanding of the evidence... Amaral clearly didn't. In the documentary he claimed he would prove in the following hour Maddie died in the apartment... He failed miserably
Not according to him he didn't. He proved it according to his paradigm. Winning.
-
Nope. Except in Court. And that wasn't exactly meeting.
Should have given Gerry a Leonoring in the bogs.
-
It certainly is the proposition which both Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria are pursuing. I think it would take quite a stretch of the imagination to suppose they have arrived at that stage without thoroughly investigating all the alternatives before deciding on following that course of action.
They have all the intelligence and information which enables them to justify investigating Madeleine's abduction to their bosses. The rest of us have to rely on working it out using common sense.
The PJ are not concentrating on investigating the abduction theory. Have you forgotten what do Carmo said?
-
Did amaral ever meet the mccanns
He was there when they were formally interviewed if that's what you are inferring.
-
Not according to him he didn't. He proved it according to his paradigm. Winning.
He showed how little he understood the evidence.. The fact that he thinks he's a genius is neither here nor there
-
He was there when they were formally interviewed if that's what you are inferring.
I don't think he ever actually met them.. Do you have a cite he did
-
Nope. Except in Court. And that wasn't exactly meeting.
That is untrue Eleanor so I do hope you self moderate. A Portuguese police Coordinator is normally present when suspects are being formally interviewed in such high profile cases. Anything else would have been a dereliction of duty. In this I refer you to the Cipriano interviews.
-
He showed how little he understood the evidence.. The fact that he thinks he's a genius is neither here nor there
It is here and / or there - prove he's wrong.
-
I don't think he ever actually met them.. Do you have a cite he did
This has been discussed at great length already. Amaral was in the police station when the McCanns were being questioned, he didn't need to meet them as in share a conversation or shake hands or anything as that would have been unprofessional. The McCanns were suspects and required to be treated as such.
-
Depends. That 50,000 - 1 will be a very vague average across humanity, which will include scientists who study lightning and, conversely, hermits who don't budge from a cave for 70 years. Golf dude increases his chances many fold by walking out on the course in a storm. But your example isn't the same - it's not certain, but way more likely.
The actual odds from the perspective of the aliens is odds on - sappenin' hoomans WOO!
McCanns increased the chances of abduction by leaving kids unattended in an unlocked apartment on a ground floor, adjacent to the main road at night. Tell me why my example is not valid.
-
This has been discussed at great length already. Amaral was in the police station when the McCanns were being questioned, he didn't need to meet them as in share a conversation or shake hands or anything as that would have been unprofessional. The McCanns were suspects and required to be treated as such.
So when did he see the fear in their eyes, as you claimed... He never did
-
It is here and / or there - prove he's wrong.
He proved himself wrong...
-
One would like to think so but somehow I doubt it. Amaral was there on the scene and saw events first hand whereas SY appeared years later. I tend to go with those who saw what occurred first hand and experienced firsthand the fear in the eyes of those suspected of being involved.
For SY, hindsight is a wonderful luxury.
So when did amaral experience this first hand...
-
Should have given Gerry a Leonoring in the bogs.
He likely would have done, given half a chance. But more likely to have been Kate, being a woman and more easily intimidated.
-
This has been discussed at great length already. Amaral was in the police station when the McCanns were being questioned, he didn't need to meet them as in share a conversation or shake hands or anything as that would have been unprofessional. The McCanns were suspects and required to be treated as such.
I don't share your view of amaral being a competent cop... In fact.. Quite the opposite.. And he did get the sack.. Then found guilty of perjury
-
That is untrue Eleanor so I do hope you self moderate. A Portuguese police Coordinator is normally present when suspects are being formally interviewed in such high profile cases. Anything else would have been a dereliction of duty. In this I refer you to the Cipriano interviews.
I think you will find that he wasn't in the same room.
-
McCanns increased the chances of abduction by leaving kids unattended in an unlocked apartment on a ground floor, adjacent to the main road at night. Tell me why my example is not valid.
I didn't say it wasn't valid, I said it wasn't the same. My analogy referred to a certainty that another party wasn't aware of, so the 'actual' odds were different from their perspective (humans thought 1 million to one, aliens knew odds on - we gonna make it rain). But even a retard like me can concede that Mr and Mrs McCann, when doing their little mental risk assessment, could not have conceived 'abduction' as a possibility, despite their wanton neglect. So their calculated odds may be, say, 10,000-1. But your supposed abductor know different - he's thinking 5's max.
So, to reiterate, these odds - they're subjective. You think you know, but there's variables you know shirt about.
Poker? When they present it on the telly they can predict all odds of winning given the held cards - the variables are known.
-
I don't share your view of amaral being a competent cop... In fact.. Quite the opposite.. And he did get the sack.. Then found guilty of perjury
Top cop. Decorated. Crackin lad.
Thing is, Mittens, if you actually met him your kecks would roll up. Change of bills would be required.
-
Top cop. Decorated. Crackin lad.
Thing is, Mittens, if you actually met him your kecks would roll up. Change of bills would be required.
Who says he's a top cop... Who says he's decorated... He's a disgraced cop
I'd be happy to meet him and tell him that to his face
-
Who says he's a top cop... Who says he's decorated... He's a disgraced cop
All the guys down at the nick. The gaffers at the PJ.
The mayor of Luz thought he was 'a boss lad'.
He's an absolute ledge in Portimao. He's treated like Peter Ustinov down that the port.
-
That is untrue Eleanor so I do hope you self moderate. A Portuguese police Coordinator is normally present when suspects are being formally interviewed in such high profile cases. Anything else would have been a dereliction of duty. In this I refer you to the Cipriano interviews.
Snip
Until then I’d barely heard of Sr Amaral. In the five months he held this job I never met him. Gerry did only once, very briefly. madeleine: Kate McCann
If that is what a police coordinator is supposed to do it just something else he slacked off on then.
-
Snio
Until then I’d barely heard of Sr Amaral. In the five months he held this job I never met him. Gerry did only once, very briefly. madeleine: Kate McCann
If that is what a police coordinator is supposed to do it just something else he slacked off on then.
Behind the glass kid, watching the crabs in the tank, keeping an officious eye. He met them alright.
-
I didn't say it wasn't valid, I said it wasn't the same. My analogy referred to a certainty that another party wasn't aware of, so the 'actual' odds were different from their perspective (humans thought 1 million to one, aliens knew odds on - we gonna make it rain). But even a retard like me can concede that Mr and Mrs McCann, when doing their little mental risk assessment, could not have conceived 'abduction' as a possibility, despite their wanton neglect. So their calculated odds may be, say, 10,000-1. But your supposed abductor know different - he's thinking 5's max.
So, to reiterate, these odds - they're subjective. You think you know, but there's variables you know shirt about.
Poker? When they present it on the telly they can predict all odds of winning given the held cards - the variables are known.
Yeah, whatever.
-
Behind the glass kid, watching the crabs in the tank, keeping an officious eye. He met them alright.
Serious question - are you on something tonight?
-
Serious question - are you on something tonight?
I suspect that The General is feeling a bit lonely. And it was Full Moon yesterday. I had a really horrible and depressing day. But I am beginning to feel a bit better now.
-
Serious question - are you on something tonight?
The watch list.
I'm being censored out of existence. Which means I'm doing something right.
I'm on Jameson's.
And Wotsits.
-
The watch list.
I'm being censored out of existence. Which means I'm doing something right.
I'm on Jameson's.
And Wotsits.
You are sometimes so silly. Most of us quite like you if only you would give yourself half a chance.
-
You are sometimes so silly. Most of us quite like you if only you would give yourself half a chance.
I used to like him till he was blatantly rude to me in an unprovoked attack and hurt my feelings. Nasty boy.
-
I used to like him till he was blatantly rude to me in an unprovoked attack and hurt my feelings. Nasty boy.
I don't have feelings. I had those insulted out of me a very long time ago.
-
I used to like him till he was blatantly rude to me in an unprovoked attack and hurt my feelings. Nasty boy.
Ahh, yes, colloquially known as 'Donaldgate'. Got it's own subreddit and everything.
-
I think you will find that he wasn't in the same room.
Same corridor then...let's not split hairs.
-
Same corridor then...let's not split hairs.
And let's not tell me to self moderate. I would never do that to you.
-
Snip
Until then I’d barely heard of Sr Amaral. In the five months he held this job I never met him. Gerry did only once, very briefly. madeleine: Kate McCann
If that is what a police coordinator is supposed to do it just something else he slacked off on then.
She wasn't aware he was there watching her as she refused to answer the police questions but he was. She was the prime suspect, not Gerry. It was Goncalo's job to oversee that interview.
-
And let's not tell me to self moderate. I would never do that to you.
You stated they had never met but they were in the same police station at the same time only feet away. Davel seems to think Portimão cop shop is some sort of social club where detectives hobnob with suspects. The McCanns were there as official suspects, not as visitors expecting a handshake and a cup of tea.
-
I didn't say it wasn't valid, I said it wasn't the same. My analogy referred to a certainty that another party wasn't aware of, so the 'actual' odds were different from their perspective (humans thought 1 million to one, aliens knew odds on - we gonna make it rain). But even a retard like me can concede that Mr and Mrs McCann, when doing their little mental risk assessment, could not have conceived 'abduction' as a possibility, despite their wanton neglect. So their calculated odds may be, say, 10,000-1. But your supposed abductor know different - he's thinking 5's max.
So, to reiterate, these odds - they're subjective. You think you know, but there's variables you know shirt about.
Poker? When they present it on the telly they can predict all odds of winning given the held cards - the variables are known.
What evidence do you have that any abductor was male?
And how can you talk about 'odds' when the motive is unknown?
-
You stated they had never met but they were in the same police station at the same time only feet away. Davel seems to think Portimão cop shop is some sort of social club where detectives hobnob with suspects. The McCanns were there as official suspects, not as visitors expecting a handshake and a cup of tea.
So you think it is acceptable to tell another Moderator On Forum to Self Moderate, despite not being entirely wrong?
You have so seriously disappointed me.
But I will be after you on the next occasion that you are even remotely careless.
-
You stated they had never met but they were in the same police station at the same time only feet away. Davel seems to think Portimão cop shop is some sort of social club where detectives hobnob with suspects. The McCanns were there as official suspects, not as visitors expecting a handshake and a cup of tea.
Cite?
-
You stated they had never met but they were in the same police station at the same time only feet away. Davel seems to think Portimão cop shop is some sort of social club where detectives hobnob with suspects. The McCanns were there as official suspects, not as visitors expecting a handshake and a cup of tea.
Angelo now resorts to a pathetic attempt at personal insults.
If amaral is so hands on then he would have been present when cipriano was interrogated and beaten.... That isn't what happens in any coffee shop I've been too.
-
This has been discussed at great length already. Amaral was in the police station when the McCanns were being questioned, he didn't need to meet them as in share a conversation or shake hands or anything as that would have been unprofessional. The McCanns were suspects and required to be treated as such.
So you now admit he never met them which makes your claim he saw fear in their eyes untrue.
As you have claimed you think Maddie left the apartment herself and then met her fate.... Why do you keep supporting amaral who got it all wrong it seems
-
So you now admit he never met them which makes your claim he saw fear in their eyes untrue.
As you have claimed you think Maddie left the apartment herself and then met her fate.... Why do you keep supporting amaral who got it all wrong it seems
Just to annoy McCann supporters I suspect.
-
Just to annoy McCann supporters I suspect.
So angelo thinks he annoys posters... Certainly doesn't annoy me. I'm not particularly bothered what anyone here thinks... It's the truth that matters
-
Just to annoy McCann supporters I suspect.
It works?
-
So angelo thinks he annoys posters... Certainly doesn't annoy me. I'm not particularly bothered what anyone here thinks... It's the truth that matters
Yep,imo its not been fully told yet,25 yrs for a semblance of what may have happened to B Needham to come to light,can't see it any different for M McCann imo.
-
It works?
It generates more posts, inflammatory and argumentative posts usually do. Without them this forum would have died years ago.
If the GNR officers were Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee then it follows Amaral was the Mad Hatter, certainly as far as his theory goes.
-
It generates more posts, inflammatory and argumentative posts usually do. Without them this forum would have died years ago.
If the GNR officers were Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee then it follows Amaral was the Mad Hatter, certainly as far as his theory goes.
Agreed,I posted a couple of days ago about groundhog day,its every day in here,still it passes the time for a minute or two whilst waiting for the coffee to cool.
-
Yep,imo its not been fully told yet,25 yrs for a semblance of what may have happened to B Needham to come to light,can't see it any different for M McCann imo.
Shouldn't have to wait that long according to super cop... Once M15 opens the files the truth will be told... How can anyone take him seriously
Perhaps angelo can tell us why MI5 would be involved in the McCann case
-
Shouldn't have to wait that long according to super cop... Once M15 opens the files the truth will be told... How can anyone take him seriously
He gets under your skin it seems.
-
He gets under your skin it seems.
It might seem like that to you... Perhaps I just do it to wind up amaral supporters... And he is a lying convicted criminal
-
It might seem like that to you... Perhaps I just do it to wind up amaral supporters... And he is a lying convicted criminal
Concur.
-
All the guys down at the nick. The gaffers at the PJ.
The mayor of Luz thought he was 'a boss lad'.
He's an absolute ledge in Portimao. He's treated like Peter Ustinov down that the port.
But they didn't want him as Mayor.
-
I think the idea that Madeleine McCann's parents could have been involved in her disappearance was a perfectly valid line of enquiry. It was seen as valid by all the people involved; the judge who agreed to issue search warrants for their villa and car; the British police who sent their national search adviser and their best dog team to help; the prosecutors who directed the investigation and the two leaders of it; Encarnacao and Neves.
Rather than accept these facts some people prefer to blame Amaral for it all. Is that a diversionary tactic I wonder? Thats how it looks to me, because he wasn't in charge as some like to suggest.
-
I think the idea that Madeleine McCann's parents could have been involved in her disappearance was a perfectly valid line of enquiry. It was seen as valid by all the people involved; the judge who agreed to issue search warrants for their villa and car; the British police who sent their national search adviser and their best dog team to help; the prosecutors who directed the investigation and the two leaders of it; Encarnacao and Neves.
Rather than accept these facts some people prefer to blame Amaral for it all. Is that a diversionary tactic I wonder? Thats how it looks to me, because he wasn't in charge as some like to suggest.
I think you show a complete lack of understanding of the supporter position.
It was absolutely correct to think that the parents COULD have been involved...that is normal practice.
however when police try and make the evidence support the theory when it doesnt is totally unnaceptable.
When the police show atotal lack of undestanding of the evidence...that is unnacceptable
When despite there being no evidence to supprt it but the police pretend there is...to continue this for 12 years...that is totally unnacceptable
-
I think you show a complete lack of understanding of the supporter position.
It was absolutely correct to think that the parents COULD have been involved...that is normal practice.
however when police try and make the evidence support the theory when it doesnt is totally unnaceptable.
When the police show atotal lack of undestanding of the evidence...that is unnacceptable
When despite there being no evidence to supprt it but the police pretend there is...to continue this for 12 years...that is totally unnacceptable
I agree with you to some extent but there were extenuating factors which led police to the conclusions they came to. One such factor was an independent eye witness who was categoric that he had met GM that night carrying an unresponsive female child.
-
I think you show a complete lack of understanding of the supporter position.
It was absolutely correct to think that the parents COULD have been involved...that is normal practice.
however when police try and make the evidence support the theory when it doesnt is totally unnaceptable.
When the police show atotal lack of undestanding of the evidence...that is unnacceptable
When despite there being no evidence to supprt it but the police pretend there is...to continue this for 12 years...that is totally unnacceptable
If, as you seem to be saying, the 'police' got it wrong why is Amaral the only target of these supporters? Why do we constantly hear that it was his theory, his misunderstanding, his fault?
-
If, as you seem to be saying, the 'police' got it wrong why is Amaral the only target of these supporters? Why do we constantly hear that it was his theory, his misunderstanding, his fault?
His liking of sardines for lunch?
-
I agree with you to some extent but there were extenuating factors which led police to the conclusions they came to. One such factor was an independent eye witness who was categoric that he had met GM that night carrying an unresponsive female child.
60% to 80% sure. Hardly categoric.
-
I think you show a complete lack of understanding of the supporter position.
It was absolutely correct to think that the parents COULD have been involved...that is normal practice.
however when police try and make the evidence support the theory when it doesnt is totally unnaceptable.
When the police show atotal lack of undestanding of the evidence...that is unnacceptable
When despite there being no evidence to supprt it but the police pretend there is...to continue this for 12 years...that is totally unnacceptable
OG spent a wad of money trying to make evidence fit the theory of burglary gone wrong,OG are still in existence today so in that respect not a lot of difference.
-
I agree with you to some extent but there were extenuating factors which led police to the conclusions they came to. One such factor was an independent eye witness who was categoric that he had met GM that night carrying an unresponsive female child.
That isn't true... Smith said he thought it was Gerry.. 60 to 80 %...based on the way he held the child... That is not catagoric.
A couple saw a child in a petrol station who they thought 99% was Maddie... Why do you believe one and not the other.
Smiths type of evidence is notoriously unreliable... Any decent policeman should have realised that
-
If, as you seem to be saying, the 'police' got it wrong why is Amaral the only target of these supporters? Why do we constantly hear that it was his theory, his misunderstanding, his fault?
The answer is obvious and I'm surprised you need it explained
Amaral was the only one to write a book... The only one to appear on tv... The only one giving multiple interviews promoting the theory.
The others kept it where it belonged... Inside the investigation
-
OG spent a wad of money trying to make evidence fit the theory of burglary gone wrong,OG are still in existence today so in that respect not a lot of difference.
You don't know what evidence Grange has... Amaral told us his evidence
-
60% to 80% sure. Hardly categoric.
In the dark how could it be 100% for anybody? Body language was the main factor in Martin Smith naming GM - he witnessed an action replay of that night.
He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
-
In the dark how could it be 100% for anybody? Body language was the main factor in Martin Smith naming GM - he witnessed an action replay of that night.
He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
if you give credence to the smith sighting then you should give more credence to the 99% sighting of maddie in the petrol station. Fhen we have all the other sightings.
i think its clear smith thought it might be Gerry...but he was wrong
-
The answer is obvious and I'm surprised you need it explained
Amaral was the only one to write a book... The only one to appear on tv... The only one giving multiple interviews promoting the theory.
The others kept it where it belonged... Inside the investigation
The McCanns appeared on TV, gave multiple interviews and wrote a book. Why should they be the only ones allowed to promote their theory?
-
The McCanns appeared on TV, gave multiple interviews and wrote a book. Why should they be the only ones allowed to promote their theory?
Again a simple answer...because their daughter was missing...wht amaral did and has done is a total disgrace imo...hopefully the ECHR will agree and censure amaral and portugal
the mccanns aim is to promote the search for their daughter...what is amarals
-
It might seem like that to you... Perhaps I just do it to wind up amaral supporters... And he is a lying convicted criminal
Again a simple answer...because their daughter was missing...wht amaral did and has done is a total disgrace imo...hopefully the ECHR will agree and censure amaral and portugal
Clearly it winds you up,not to wind the Amaral "supporters" up.
-
Clearly it winds you up,not to wind the Amaral "supporters" up.
is that supposed to make some sense
-
if you give credence to the smith sighting then you should give more credence to the 99% sighting of maddie in the petrol station. Fhen we have all the other sightings.
i think its clear smith thought it might be Gerry...but he was wrong
The Smith sighting took place in PDL within a short walking distance of the apartment at roughly 10:04 on the night Maddie disappeared.
The alarm was raised somewhere between 9:50 (MO) & 10:15 (GM).
The petrol station sighting took place some six days later, in a completely different country.....where the abductor had now supposedly given up hiding the worlds most high profile missing child, preferring instead to allow her to wander round a petrol station asking for her mum.
-
"She had this pretty face and long blonde hair to the shoulders, green eyes."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8737819/madeleine-mccann-morocco-petrol-station-sighting/
She was close enough to be able to see her eye colour.
Give over. *&^^&
-
Again a simple answer...because their daughter was missing...wht amaral did and has done is a total disgrace imo...hopefully the ECHR will agree and censure amaral and portugal
the mccanns aim is to promote the search for their daughter...what is amarals
Amaral thinks the child is dead, the McCanns say she's alive. No-one knows who's right, but why should one be censored and not the other?
-
I agree with you to some extent but there were extenuating factors which led police to the conclusions they came to. One such factor was an independent eye witness who was categoric that he had met GM that night carrying an unresponsive female child.
He was far from categoric, by as much as 40% in fact.
-
The answer is obvious and I'm surprised you need it explained
Amaral was the only one to write a book... The only one to appear on tv... The only one giving multiple interviews promoting the theory.
The others kept it where it belonged... Inside the investigation
Exactemundo 8@??)(
-
Amaral thinks the child is dead, the McCanns say she's alive. No-one knows who's right, but why should one be censored and not the other?
Because one is making wholly unsubstantiated claims about the others, surely even you can understand this?
-
Amaral thinks the child is dead, the McCanns say she's alive. No-one knows who's right, but why should one be censored and not the other?
Says the woman who demands that “Remoaners” must now shut up. When must sceptics do likewise?
-
Amaral thinks the child is dead, the McCanns say she's alive. No-one knows who's right, but why should one be censored and not the other?
areyou serious or just in denial....amaral is saying a lot more than Maddie is dead...he is saying the mccanns have lied and they know what happened to her...and he is claiming the evidence supports this when it doesnt
-
if you give credence to the smith sighting then you should give more credence to the 99% sighting of maddie in the petrol station. Fhen we have all the other sightings.
i think its clear smith thought it might be Gerry...but he was wrong
They didn't release his efits in their no stone unturned? book. No they wanted to nail it on Tannerman who has been eliminated by SY. SY had to release the efits 5 years later. Everything comes back to that sighting and a dodgy watch!
-
They didn't release his efits in their no stone unturned? book. No they wanted to nail it on Tannerman who has been eliminated by SY. SY had to release the efits 5 years later. Everything comes back to that sighting and a dodgy watch!
Funny that when they weren't wearing watches according to Mitchell who wasn't there.
You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.
-
They didn't release his efits in their no stone unturned? book. No they wanted to nail it on Tannerman who has been eliminated by SY. SY had to release the efits 5 years later. Everything comes back to that sighting and a dodgy watch!
In your fantasy world, perhaps.
-
Funny that when they weren't wearing watches according to Mitchell who wasn't there.
You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.
Clarry is a waste of time. No Smithman efits for the media but you get posh spice and other nonsense. They never wanted to find Smithman so SY had to release them.
1578 'And did you wear watches''
Reply 'Yes'.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
When asked about the time he went to check the children on the night of Madeleine's disappearance, he states remembering that he did it, according to his watch, around 21:04.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
-
In your fantasy world, perhaps.
They will never find your fantasy abductor and that is a promise!
-
They will never find your fantasy abductor and that is a promise!
They will never bang up Gerry McCann and that is a certainty afaiac.
-
Funny that when they weren't wearing watches according to Mitchell who wasn't there.
You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.
depends what Mitchell meant ... did he just mean some didnt have a watch or phone....it can be read either way
-
They will never find your fantasy abductor and that is a promise!
perhaps they will ...perhaps they wont...you dont know
-
depends what Mitchell meant ... did he just mean some didnt have a watch or phone....it can be read either way
The tapas 9 were never in the tapas together on the night of 3/05/2007 were they?
-
The tapas 9 were never in the tapas together on the night of 3/05/2007 were they?
is it that important
-
depends what Mitchell meant ... did he just mean some didnt have a watch or phone....it can be read either way
Seems pretty unequivocal to me, other wise he would have prefixed with 'some'. Not sure what relevance the absence of phones or watches had to do with the 'absolute panic'. 'I say old chap, do you have the time?'. Could have said that to someone maybe? Bah, I wasn't there; what do I know?
-
Seems pretty unequivocal to me, other wise he would have prefixed with 'some'. Not sure what relevance the absence of phones or watches had to do with the 'absolute panic'. 'I say old chap, do you have the time?'. Could have said that to someone maybe? Bah, I wasn't there; what do I know?
I dont think we can be sure but imo its more likely he meant some...and its hearsay...may not be his exact words
-
I dont think we can be sure but imo its more likely he meant some...and its hearsay...may not be his exact words
Could be. What's the chances of 9 people not having a watch or a phone between them?
Spectacles, wallet and baby monitor.
-
In the dark how could it be 100% for anybody? Body language was the main factor in Martin Smith naming GM - he witnessed an action replay of that night.
He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
Richard McCluskey was absolutely sure that he too recognised Gerry on the TV news despite (in common with Martin Smith) being unable to give police a description of the man at the time. Richard McCluskey's amended statement to the police https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm predates the amended statement given to them by Martin Smith ...
Snip
I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
__________________________________________________________________
Snip
I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following;
The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.
In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.
Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.
I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
__________________________________________________________________
How amazing can it be that two witnesses have almost exactly the same false memory experience after following exactly the same news in print media and on television news programmes.
Mr Smith's original sighting had not been resolved at the time probably because the man he saw remains as far as we know, unidentified.
Mr McCluskey's original sighting had been resolved using the information supplied by him and his wife and the couple involved identified by the Judicial police ...
__________________________________________________________________
Snip
Having previously spoken to the neighbours it was established that the girl had left with the father and a colleague on Monday for the Ukraine. It was observed that having taking this girl on such a long journey was justified that she did not stay with the small boy (which would have been) a burden for the mother.
The description of the facts denounced was explained in this way. There was no doubt that the girl was the daughter of both, known by the neighbours and having lived at the address for a long time.
By the woman's admission, without mentioning the case of Madeleine McCann further, as she was now being heard by the police and regarding any doubts concerning the motive, she says that she had already observed - as had her husband - that her daughter could be confused with Madeleine because of the physical similarities and age.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
__________________________________________________________________
Interesting statements indeed on all sorts of levels well worth giving a lot of serious thought.
Any theories you and Amaral may have associated with Mr Smith's false memory are nullified by comparison with Mr McCluskey's false memories.
But can you imagine the scenario had the Ukrainian couple seen by Mr & Mrs McCluskey not been ruled out by the PJ ... I think all Amaral's theories and Christmases would have come at once.
The question which arises for me is ... was the long journey back to the Ukraine with the child who looked like Madeleine checked out as diligently as it might have been if the senior officers hadn't already believed that Madeleine died one way or another, in the apartment on the 3rd May, at her parents hands.
-
The Smith sighting took place in PDL within a short walking distance of the apartment at roughly 10:04 on the night Maddie disappeared.
The alarm was raised somewhere between 9:50 (MO) & 10:15 (GM).
The petrol station sighting took place some six days later, in a completely different country.....where the abductor had now supposedly given up hiding the worlds most high profile missing child, preferring instead to allow her to wander round a petrol station asking for her mum.
No-one in the Smith family made the connection between the man they had seen and Madeleine's disappearance until Peter wondered if he had dreamt the encounter a fortnight after the event.
-
Can anyone produce anything to show that eye witness testimony is reliable?
https://www.ncsc.org/microsites/trends/home/Monthly-Trends-Articles/2017/The-Trouble-with-Eyewitness-Identification-Testimony-in-Criminal-Cases.aspx
-
Amaral thinks the child is dead, the McCanns say she's alive. No-one knows who's right, but why should one be censored and not the other?
Kate wrote in her book - they did not know what happened to Madeleine
- there was no evidence that she had come to serious harm
As far as I know that information remains exactly the same today as it was then. So what is this campaign to prove the death of a person really all about.
Is it all to benefit the egotistical theories of a very troubled (if he's not - in my opinion he should be) man.
-
No-one in the Smith family made the connection between the man they had seen and Madeleine's disappearance until Peter wondered if he had dreamt the encounter a fortnight after the event.
Yes, but that doesn't mean it wasn't Gerry.
-
Yes, but that doesn't mean it wasn't Gerry.
How very celestial teapot.. My poor typing almost resulted in celestial toss pot... Fortunately I corrected it
-
Kate wrote in her book - they did not know what happened to Madeleine
- there was no evidence that she had come to serious harm
As far as I know that information remains exactly the same today as it was then. So what is this campaign to prove the death of a person really all about.
Is it all to benefit the egotistical theories of a very troubled (if he's not - in my opinion he should be) man.
Do you think Amaral should have been censored then?
-
Do you think Amaral should have been censored then?
You either believe it’s ok to publicly besmirch the reputation of others on the basis of scant evidence (think Cliff Richard or Chris Jeffries) or you don’t. I don’t, how about you?
-
Do you think Amaral should have been censored then?
I woz 8)><(
I think freedom of speech should reign supreme.
-
Do you think Amaral should have been censored then?
I think what he said was libelous and therefore contrary to the law... The SC made, a, very poor judgement imo but hopefully the ECHR will produce a correct interpretation of the law
-
I woz 8)><(
I think freedom of speech should reign supreme.
No it shouldn't.. According to the ECHR
-
You either believe it’s ok to publicly besmirch the reputation of others on the basis of scant evidence (think Cliff Richard or Chris Jeffries) or you don’t. I don’t, how about you?
I'm not sure how our community here compares with the might of the Murdoch press?
I see our community here akin to chatting down the local boozer or coffee shop.
-
No it shouldn't.. According to the ECHR
I thought ECHR ruled freedom of speech should take precedence?
-
I'm not sure how our community here compares with the might of the Murdoch press?
I see our community here akin to chatting down the local boozer or coffee shop.
Who was talking about our community? Amaral is not part of our community!
PS: you beliefs are at odds with the forum owner’s.
-
Yes, but that doesn't mean it wasn't Gerry.
I think you may have passed by a post of mine which is less to your liking http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565468#msg565468 but which may have more relevance to the thread and fantastic theories ?? shared by you and Amaral.
I think if you go back and read it you will see that false memory might be to blame for quite a few of Amaral's and your misunderstanding of the events you both seem determined to misrepresent.
-
I think you may have passed by a post of mine which is less to your liking http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565468#msg565468 but which may have more relevance to the thread and fantastic theories ?? shared by you and Amaral.
I think if you go back and read it you will see that false memory might be to blame for quite a few of Amaral's and your misunderstanding of the events you both seem determined to misrepresent.
I could go back & read your post.
But why would I bother,
-
I thought ECHR ruled freedom of speech should take precedence?
Absolutely not.. You need to read what the ECHR says
-
Do you think Amaral should have been censored then?
Please refer to http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565478#msg565478 I certainly couldn't have put it any better than that.
-
I could go back & read your post.
But why would I bother,
Please desist from posting libel or I and other monitors who see them will be forced to delete your contributions containing them such as the one above.
-
I'm not sure how our community here compares with the might of the Murdoch press?
I see our community here akin to chatting down the local boozer or coffee shop.
Afaik John has previously received a letter from Carter Ruck
-
Afaik John has previously received a letter from Carter Ruck
CR can send as many letters as they like but it will not stop many believing the McCanns were responsible.
-
Absolutely not.. You need to read what the ECHR says
I thought we were all waiting with bated breath for the final ruling?
In any event anyone can download Amara's theory from www so how come CR haven't forced ISP's to remove. Bah!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_ZdDTsFC2g
-
CR can send as many letters as they like but it will not stop many believing the McCanns were responsible.
There are people who are convinced that the earth is flat; which is very much their own business.
Maligning a stranger continually for over twelve years - joining and setting up wee clubs to keep hate going is rather extraordinary behaviour.
-
Please refer to http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565478#msg565478 I certainly couldn't have put it any better than that.
So your opinion is that Amaral 'besmirched the reputation of others', and should therefore be censored?
-
There are people who are convinced that the earth is flat; which is very much their own business.
Maligning a stranger continually for over twelve years - joining and setting up wee clubs to keep hate going is rather extraordinary behaviour.
I have seen some real hate expressed in one wee club.
https://stopthemyths.info/viewforum.php?f=143
-
CR can send as many letters as they like but it will not stop many believing the McCanns were responsible.
A few weeks ago I was in M&S Cambs trying on some new undies! I heard one of the assistants talking to another about how her partner is amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner; she's Potuguese. When I left cubicle I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible. To my mind this woman came over as intelligent and sensible.
A couple of weeks before the above encounter I was in a cafe in Cambs; my Pete went to the counter to order which left me sitting with a Scottish woman. I struck up a conversation and asked her about MM's case, thinking as a Scotswoman, she would be pro but not so!
-
I thought we were all waiting with bated breath for the final ruling?
In any event anyone can download Amara's theory from www so how come CR haven't forced ISP's to remove. Bah!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_ZdDTsFC2g
We don't need the final ruling to know that free speech has limits according to the ECHR... Ive posted other case rulings.
That really is a basic fact that I thought others understood
-
So your opinion is that Amaral 'besmirched the reputation of others', and should therefore be censored?
No one has the right to censor anyone... But everyone should comply with the law
-
A few weeks ago I was in M&S Cambs trying on some new undies! I heard one of the assistants talking to another about how her partner is amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner; she's Potuguese. When I left cubicle I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible. To my mind this woman came over as intelligent and sensible.
A couple of weeks before the above encounter I was in a cafe in Cambs; my Pete went to the counter to order which left me sitting with a Scottish woman. I struck up a conversation and asked her about MM's case, thinking as a Scotswoman, she would be pro but not so!
Sorry I find that very weird/odd, to strike up brief conversations with strangers about Madeleine disappearance.
-
Sorry I find that very weird to strike up conversations with strangers about Madeleine disappearance.
I guess it depends how you broach the subject but both were enthusiastic about engaging so I assume they didn't find it weird.
I don't stand on street corners eliciting comment. I asked the above based on the fact one was Potuguese and the other Scottish.
-
I guess it depends how you broach the subject but both were enthusiastic about engaging so I assume they didn't find it weird.
I don't stand on street corners eliciting comment. I asked the above based on the fact one was Potuguese and the other Scottish.
Most Portuguese believe amarals false claims Re the dogs and dna... And similarly some UK people believe maddies blood was found in the hire car. Theres no accounting for people's ignorance
Did you ask why they doubted the mccanns
-
So your opinion is that Amaral 'besmirched the reputation of others', and should therefore be censored?
I don't think you can help yourself not to twist posts to say what they do not ... a bit like Amaral's ever more frenetic formulating of one bizarre theory after another to any who will listen.
"censored" is your word is it not ... not anyone else's.
-
I have seen some real hate expressed in one wee club.
https://stopthemyths.info/viewforum.php?f=143
You do ???????????????? I find that really, really strange. From the link provided by you ...
My friends, light candles please, thank you.
https://gratefulness.org/light-a-candle/view-all
-
A few weeks ago I was in M&S Cambs trying on some new undies! I heard one of the assistants talking to another about how her partner is amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner; she's Potuguese. When I left cubicle I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible. To my mind this woman came over as intelligent and sensible.
A couple of weeks before the above encounter I was in a cafe in Cambs; my Pete went to the counter to order which left me sitting with a Scottish woman. I struck up a conversation and asked her about MM's case, thinking as a Scotswoman, she would be pro but not so!
You make it a habit to question total strangers regarding Madeleine McCann's case ?? Ouch !!!!
-
I guess it depends how you broach the subject but both were enthusiastic about engaging so I assume they didn't find it weird.
I don't stand on street corners eliciting comment. I asked the above based on the fact one was Potuguese and the other Scottish.
I speak to Scottish folk each and every time I am out shopping but have never, ever felt the need to ask them their opinion on Madeleine's disappearance.
How did you begin the conversation/discussion?
-
I have seen some real hate expressed in one wee club.
https://stopthemyths.info/viewforum.php?f=143
Examples?
-
A few weeks ago I was in M&S Cambs trying on some new undies! I heard one of the assistants talking to another about how her partner is amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner; she's Potuguese. When I left cubicle I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible. To my mind this woman came over as intelligent and sensible.
A couple of weeks before the above encounter I was in a cafe in Cambs; my Pete went to the counter to order which left me sitting with a Scottish woman. I struck up a conversation and asked her about MM's case, thinking as a Scotswoman, she would be pro but not so!
My God, you are coming across as somewhat obsessed.
-
Examples?
There's plenty. Just click on the link and read.
-
I don't think you can help yourself not to twist posts to say what they do not ... a bit like Amaral's ever more frenetic formulating of one bizarre theory after another to any who will listen.
"censored" is your word is it not ... not anyone else's.
So you accept that Amaral has as much right to propogate his theory as the McCann's do?
-
There's plenty. Just click on the link and read.
Nope, that won’t do. You need to be a bit more specific. If the site is full of hate it should be easy to find some. You made the claim, you supply the evidence.
-
So you accept that Amaral has as much right to propogate his theory as the McCann's do?
You really just don’t get it do you? And I thought you were one of the brighter ones.
-
So you accept that Amaral has as much right to propogate his theory as the McCann's do?
The McCanns belief/ theory is that their child was abducted.
Amaral's theory is that Madeleine's parents covered up their child's death, disposed of her body and have lied to the world.
His theory is libellous, imo, and the propogation of that theory was for the sole purpose of gaining monetary reward.
-
So your opinion is that Amaral 'besmirched the reputation of others', and should therefore be censored?
you either believe it’s ok to publicly besmirch the reputation of others on the basis of scant evidence (think Cliff Richard or Chris Jeffries) or you don’t. I don’t, how about you?
-
You make it a habit to question total strangers regarding Madeleine McCann's case ?? Ouch !!!!
My wife catches it in the ear from friends or contacts on a regular basis. Sometimes English, sometimes Portuguese.
Thus far such convos have been 100% anti-McCann.
She makes it clear that I will be happy to discuss the 'evidence' against the McCanns and explain the truth, but we are a 1 woman and 1 man battle against the many.
Meanwhile, what are the McCanns getting up to?
-
My wife catches it in the ear from friends or contacts on a regular basis. Sometimes English, sometimes Portuguese.
Thus far such convos have been 100% anti-McCann.
She makes it clear that I will be happy to discuss the 'evidence' against the McCanns and explain the truth, but we are a 1 woman and 1 man battle against the many.
Meanwhile, what are the McCanns getting up to?
By Anti McCann do you mean the people in Portugal all believe the McCanns hid their child’s body?
-
I speak to Scottish folk each and every time I am out shopping but have never, ever felt the need to ask them their opinion on Madeleine's disappearance.
How did you begin the conversation/discussion?
I too have daily conversations with Scottish folk ~ friends ~ neighbours ~ relations ~ acquaintances ~ strangers ~ dog walkers (and believe you me there is nowt as queer as we dog walkers and there is little under the sun that we don't discuss sometimes with a passion) ~ I even have a real life Portuguese friend who shares my politics ... never once have I raised discussion with any of them regarding Madeleine or her folks and never once has one of them broached the subject of Madeleine with me.
I would have found it extraordinarily odd if anyone had.
-
I too have daily conversations with Scottish folk ~ friends ~ neighbours ~ relations ~ acquaintances ~ strangers ~ dog walkers (and believe you me there is nowt as queer as we dog walkers and there is little under the sun that we don't discuss sometimes with a passion) ~ I even have a real life Portuguese friend who shares my politics ... never once have I raised discussion with any of them regarding Madeleine or her folks and never once has one of them broached the subject of Madeleine with me.
I would have found it extraordinarily odd if anyone had.
Same here (apart from the Scottish bit). In 12 years I can count on the numbers of one hand the times this subject has come up in the course of normal conversation amongst friends and acquaintances.
-
There's plenty. Just click on the link and read.
I did click on the link and I did read.
I posted the result here ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565505#msg565505
-
I too have daily conversations with Scottish folk ~ friends ~ neighbours ~ relations ~ acquaintances ~ strangers ~ dog walkers (and believe you me there is nowt as queer as we dog walkers and there is little under the sun that we don't discuss sometimes with a passion) ~ I even have a real life Portuguese friend who shares my politics ... never once have I raised discussion with any of them regarding Madeleine or her folks and never once has one of them broached the subject of Madeleine with me.
I would have found it extraordinarily odd if anyone had.
I take it then that you don't live in the vicinity of Luz?
-
So you accept that Amaral has as much right to propogate his theory as the McCann's do?
Please do not presume anything at all about my posts unless posted by me.
-
I take it then that you don't live in the vicinity of Luz?
Is that why you and your family left Luz ... and why they are now thinking of leaving Portugal altogether.
-
I too have daily conversations with Scottish folk ~ friends ~ neighbours ~ relations ~ acquaintances ~ strangers ~ dog walkers (and believe you me there is nowt as queer as we dog walkers and there is little under the sun that we don't discuss sometimes with a passion) ~ I even have a real life Portuguese friend who shares my politics ... never once have I raised discussion with any of them regarding Madeleine or her folks and never once has one of them broached the subject of Madeleine with me.
I would have found it extraordinarily odd if anyone had.
I think those of us who post regularly on the subject of Maddie McCann sometimes forget that most people have little interest in the case these days. I remember a time when it meant nothing at all to me.
-
I think those of us who post regularly on the subject of Maddie McCann sometimes forget that most people have little interest in the case these days. I remember a time when it meant nothing at all to me.
I had absolutely no idea who Amaral was until shortly after I made my first post on a public message board in 2013 with a positive comment about the reopening of Madeleine's case.
To say I unleashed the hounds of hell on my poor avatar is putting it mildly.
I think you are right, Angelo, the majority of ordinary folk have different priorities from us zealots although I think there are very few of them who would wish any harm on Madeleine but instead would be happy to see her case resolved.
-
Most Portuguese believe amarals false claims Re the dogs and dna... And similarly some UK people believe maddies blood was found in the hire car. Theres no accounting for people's ignorance
Did you ask why they doubted the mccanns
The Portuguese woman said crime against children in Portugal was virtually unheard of. I did bring up the case of JC which she was vaguely aware of. Neither mentioned the dog alerts or any particular reason why they thought the parents involved they just seemed to have formed this opinion.
-
You make it a habit to question total strangers regarding Madeleine McCann's case ?? Ouch !!!!
Did I say I questioned them?
-
The Portuguese woman said crime against children in Portugal was virtually unheard of. I did bring up the case of JC which she was vaguely aware of. Neither mentioned the dog alerts or any particular reason why they thought the parents involved they just seemed to have formed this opinion.
A Google search using these words "child" "abuse" "Portugal" paints quite a different story!
-
My God, you are coming across as somewhat obsessed.
And yet my post history would suggest otherwise. May I suggest you take a look at forum profiles and statistics before accusing anyone of being obsessed and that you rein it in with the personal comments.
-
A Google search using these words "child" "abuse" "Portugal" paints quite a different story!
Statistics from reliable sources would paint a better picture.
-
I think those of us who post regularly on the subject of Maddie McCann sometimes forget that most people have little interest in the case these days. I remember a time when it meant nothing at all to me.
Yes that's true. I just asked the Portuguese and Scottish woman because of the obvious connections but it was clear neither had any in-depth knowledge just a vague idea the parents may have been involved.
-
Statistics from reliable sources would paint a better picture.
Can you categorically state that crime against children in Portugal is "virtually unheard of"?
If so, what is in the Portuguese pysche that makes that nation different from others?
-
And yet my post history would suggest otherwise. May I suggest you take a look at forum profiles and statistics before accusing anyone of being obsessed and that you rein it in with the personal comments.
I would suggest that striking up conversations with complete strangers who had previously demonstrated no interest in the case is slightly more obsessive than joining in an already established online conversation on the matter. I think your behaviour is odd, and as you have no problem with Amaral publicly criticizing and blaming others, nor should you have a problem when you are the subject of such criticism- imo.
-
Statistics from reliable sources would paint a better picture.
They’d obviously never heard of Casa Pia either then.
-
Statistics from reliable sources would paint a better picture.
And yet here you are telling us that some Portuguese woman you met in a changing room says that crime in Portugal against children is virtually unheard of. Laughable!
-
A few weeks ago I was in M&S Cambs trying on some new undies! I heard one of the assistants talking to another about how her partner is amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner; she's Potuguese. When I left cubicle I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible. To my mind this woman came over as intelligent and sensible.
A couple of weeks before the above encounter I was in a cafe in Cambs; my Pete went to the counter to order which left me sitting with a Scottish woman. I struck up a conversation and asked her about MM's case, thinking as a Scotswoman, she would be pro but not so!
Because you believe that the woman you met in a changing room was “intelligent and sensible” does that mean we must take her views (as reported by you) seriously? Laugahble again!
-
I would suggest that striking up conversations with complete strangers who had previously demonstrated no interest in the case is slightly more obsessive than joining in an already established online conversation on the matter. I think your behaviour is odd, and as you have no problem with Amaral publicly criticizing and blaming others, nor should you have a problem when you are the subject of such criticism- imo.
Well since 'the complete strangers' were enthusiastic participants in the conversation I started I think I'll take my social cues from them rather than likes of yourself who did not witness subtleties such as body language, eye contact, tone of voice etc.
I think your behavior here in the main leaves a lot to be desired eg referring to other posters as obsessed/odd. GA publicly criticizing others has nothing to do with members here treating others with respect. If we allowed members to go around accusing other members of being obsessive and odd posting would descend into name calling.
It seems to me you want to be divisive and sow discord because you have formed the view you can do so and get away with it.
-
And yet here you are telling us that some Portuguese woman you met in a changing room says that crime in Portugal against children is virtually unheard of. Laughable!
Did I say it was an accurate barometer of anything? I simply recounted a conversation.
What point are you attempting to make by adding a one word sentence, laughable, at the end of your post?
-
Well since 'the complete strangers' were enthusiastic participants in the conversation I started I think I'll take my social cues from them rather than likes of yourself who did not witness subtleties such as body language, eye contact, tone of voice etc.
I think your behavior here in the main leaves a lot to be desired eg referring to other posters as obsessed/odd. GA publicly criticizing others has nothing to do with members here treating others with respect. If we allowed members to go around accusing other members of being obsessive and odd posting would descend into name calling.
It seems to me you want to be divisive and sow discord because you have formed the view you can do so and get away with it.
some would love censorship on here and for us so called anti mcanns to not talk about the mccans flaws and plot holes in their stories
-
The Portuguese woman said crime against children in Portugal was virtually unheard of. I did bring up the case of JC which she was vaguely aware of. Neither mentioned the dog alerts or any particular reason why they thought the parents involved they just seemed to have formed this opinion.
Portugal is ranked among the three countries with the highest rate of infant deaths from ill treatment: 90% of abused children have been victims of domestic violence, which can have serious consequences on the physical and mental development of children.
Many children from Brazil, Eastern Europe and Africa are sent to Portugal. They are used in the hotel industry, for domestic work and prostitution. These children typically suffer ill treatment and sexual abuse.
https://www.humanium.org/en/portugal/
-
The McCanns belief/ theory is that their child was abducted.
Amaral's theory is that Madeleine's parents covered up their child's death, disposed of her body and have lied to the world.
His theory is libellous, imo, and the propogation of that theory was for the sole purpose of gaining monetary reward.
So it's all about opinion. You think Amaral's theory is libellous and he was in it for the money.
I accept the findings of the Portuguese courts who found Amaral innocent of wrong-doing. Books don't always make money, by the way. Ask Summers and Swan.
-
Because you believe that the woman you met in a changing room was “intelligent and sensible” does that mean we must take her views (as reported by you) seriously? Laugahble again!
You seem so upset that a Potuguese M&S employee that I struck up a conversation with about MM believes the parents were responsible.
-
You seem so upset that a Potuguese M&S employee that I struck up a conversation with about MM believes the parents were responsible.
Responsible for what ?
Covering up their child's death, disposing of her body and lying to the media and the police?
-
Well since 'the complete strangers' were enthusiastic participants in the conversation I started I think I'll take my social cues from them rather than likes of yourself who did not witness subtleties such as body language, eye contact, tone of voice etc.
I think your behavior here in the main leaves a lot to be desired eg referring to other posters as obsessed/odd. GA publicly criticizing others has nothing to do with members here treating others with respect. If we allowed members to go around accusing other members of being obsessive and odd posting would descend into name calling.
It seems to me you want to be divisive and sow discord because you have formed the view you can do so and get away with it.
I’m simply speaking my mind and telling it how I see it. Striking up conversation about Madeleine McCann with a complete stranger in a M&S changing room 12 years after the child disappeared is strange behaviour to say the least IMO. It would be like me going to M&S in York and asking the changing room attendant out of the blue what she though about the Claudia Lawrence case. If I were the attendant I’d be thinking “oi, oi, we have a bit of a nutter on our hands here”. If you don’t wish to be judged don’t tell us this weird stuff!
-
Did I say it was an accurate barometer of anything? I simply recounted a conversation.
What point are you attempting to make by adding a one word sentence, laughable, at the end of your post?
What point do you think I’m making? That it’s laughable of course.
-
You seem so upset that a Potuguese M&S employee that I struck up a conversation with about MM believes the parents were responsible.
IMO the whole of Portugal believes the McCanns are responsible, and that is largely thanks to Amaral’s propaganda campaign. Why would I be upset about one alleged Portuguese M&S changing room attendant? Laughable!
-
You seem so upset that a Potuguese M&S employee that I struck up a conversation with about MM believes the parents were responsible.
Your post is very vague... Responsible for what... Neglect..
Her claim that crime against children in Portugal is almost unheard of is clearly laughable
-
Your post is very vague... Responsible for what... Neglect..
Her claim that crime against children in Portugal is almost unheard of is clearly laughable
Yeh Holly, vague. The forum demands you go back and ask her to clarify that statement immediately.
Then remonstrate with this imbecile regarding her preposterous stance on child victims of crime while you're at it.
-
'Laughable' is obviously the word behind yesterday's carefully aligned door on this year's McCann advent calendar.
I wonder what word we'll see tomorrow ?
-
Yeh Holly, vague. The forum demands you go back and ask her to clarify that statement immediately.
Then remonstrate with this imbecile regarding her preposterous stance on child victims of crime while you're at it.
Are you unable to actually contribute to the discussion.....
-
'Laughable' is obviously the word behind yesterday's carefully aligned door on this year's McCann advent calendar.
I wonder what word we'll see tomorrow ?
Are you unable to actually contribute to the discussion.....
-
'Laughable' is obviously the word behind yesterday's carefully aligned door on this year's McCann advent calendar.
I wonder what word we'll see tomorrow ?
”Tosser”, just for you. :-)
-
Sceptics appear to be like the labour party...unable to come up with any ideas of their own they resort to childish criticism of their opponents ideas
-
”Tosser”, just for you. :-)
Ooh, aren't you the touchy one, then @)(++(*
-
Ooh, aren't you the touchy one, then @)(++(*
Ooh, you are awful, but I like you xx
-
Most Portuguese believe amarals false claims Re the dogs and dna... And similarly some UK people believe maddies blood was found in the hire car. Theres no accounting for people's ignorance
Did you ask why they doubted the mccanns
Amaral's book and interviews have clouded the minds of the Portuguese, he was the leading detective why wouldn't they believe what he says. Unfortunately what he does say is not true, there was no 100% DNA of Madeleine's found in 5a.
I read on twitter only today they are talking about blood splatter on the walls, there was no blood splatter, there was nothing on the walls, there was nothing on the curtains or the sofa, but still believe there was.
-
I’m simply speaking my mind and telling it how I see it. Striking up conversation about Madeleine McCann with a complete stranger in a M&S changing room 12 years after the child disappeared is strange behaviour to say the least IMO. It would be like me going to M&S in York and asking the changing room attendant out of the blue what she though about the Claudia Lawrence case. If I were the attendant I’d be thinking “oi, oi, we have a bit of a nutter on our hands here”. If you don’t wish to be judged don’t tell us this weird stuff!
If you care to read my first post re this you will see the conversation started as a result of the Portuguese woman telling her colleague about how her partner was amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner. I wanted to find out how a Portuguese person viewed the McCanns dining without the children who were left home alone. You might think it odd but judging by how the woman responded I would say she didn't and was more than happy to engage.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565498#msg565498
-
If you care to read my first post re this you will see the conversation started as a result of the Portuguese woman telling her colleague about how her partner was amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner. I wanted to find out how a Portuguese person viewed the McCanns dining without the children who were left home alone. You might think it odd but judging by how the woman responded I would say she didn't and was more than happy to engage.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565498#msg565498
i wou;d think we already know what peoples views are on the children being left. i dont think the portuguese are the only popele having family get togethers.....and as we have seen they have a poor record on child abuse
-
Amaral's book and interviews have clouded the minds of the Portuguese, he was the leading detective why wouldn't they believe what he says. Unfortunately what he does say is not true, there was no 100% DNA of Madeleine's found in 5a.
I read on twitter only today they are talking about blood splatter on the walls, there was no blood splatter, there was nothing on the walls, there was nothing on the curtains or the sofa, but still believe there was.
Many will think 'no smoke without fire' and the British tabloids certainly played a part in shaping opinion. Ok they had to shell out and T7 minus ROB were happy to stand for photo shoot outside court but damage was done.
-
If you care to read my first post re this you will see the conversation started as a result of the Portuguese woman telling her colleague about how her partner was amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner. I wanted to find out how a Portuguese person viewed the McCanns dining without the children who were left home alone. You might think it odd but judging by how the woman responded I would say she didn't and was more than happy to engage.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565498#msg565498
The discussion such as it is, arose because of your first post which not only was off topic but which has served to deflect the thread since into an entirely off topic direction.
I'm sure that could not have been your intention because you started the thread and chose the topic yourself ... but that has been the end result ... which happens so often on threads the tactic has become par for the course.
-
The discussion such as it is, arose because of your first post which not only was off topic but which has served to deflect the thread since into an entirely off topic direction.
I'm sure that could not have been your intention because you started the thread and chose the topic yourself ... but that has been the end result ... which happens so often on threads the tactic has become par for the course.
How can it be off-topic when I was recounting the theory of another...thread title...: A Good, Bad or Average Theory What's The Difference?
-
If you care to read my first post re this you will see the conversation started as a result of the Portuguese woman telling her colleague about how her partner was amazed by her family's long get togethers over dinner. I wanted to find out how a Portuguese person viewed the McCanns dining without the children who were left home alone. You might think it odd but judging by how the woman responded I would say she didn't and was more than happy to engage.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg565498#msg565498
In my opinion the cultural differences between the Portuguese and the British made it very difficult for the Portuguese to understand and accept the McCann's method of 'childcare'. It was difficult for many British people to understand too, despite what Jane Tanner said.
It is normal (culturally, traditionally, education/examples seen) [for] English tourists to leave, for some time, their small children alone in the bedroom/apartment to sleep while the parents are absent, normally guaranteeing that it is done for short periods of time (15/30 minutes). At those times there is a sporadic check, in time, of the places where the children are.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm
What, I wonder, did Jane mean? As far as I know the group she was with were the only people staying at the Ocean Club that week who decided to do that. That makes it anything but normal imo.
-
In my opinion the cultural differences between the Portuguese and the British made it very difficult for the Portuguese to understand and accept the McCann's method of 'childcare'. It was difficult for many British people to understand too, despite what Jane Tanner said.
It is normal (culturally, traditionally, education/examples seen) [for] English tourists to leave, for some time, their small children alone in the bedroom/apartment to sleep while the parents are absent, normally guaranteeing that it is done for short periods of time (15/30 minutes). At those times there is a sporadic check, in time, of the places where the children are.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm
What, I wonder, did Jane mean? As far as I know the group she was with were the only people staying at the Ocean Club that week who decided to do that. That makes it anything but normal imo.
As far as I know there were other families doing the same... It certainly isn't common behaviour but it is not abnormal
-
As far as I know there were other families doing the same... It certainly isn't common behaviour but it is not abnormal
Were other families at the Ocean Club leaving their children home alone? Common behaviour means normal behaviour.
-
Were other families at the Ocean Club leaving their children home alone? Common behaviour means normal behaviour.
I don't think so. Can anyone provide a cite to show that they were ?
-
Were other families at the Ocean Club leaving their children home alone? Common behaviour means normal behaviour.
As I recall from posts, at the time yes. It wasn't common but it wasn't abnormal
-
At last, an interesting and relevant question!
Will we get an interesting and relevant answer?
-
As I recall from posts, at the time yes. It wasn't common but it wasn't abnormal
I think your recollections are faulty. I also think that in 2007 leaving children home alone was not something most people did. Therefore it was normal to ensure children were supervised and abnormal not to.
-
some would love censorship on here and for us so called anti mcanns to not talk about the mccans flaws and plot holes in their stories
Unless lies are being told or people are being abused or libelled, ganged up upon etc., I don't actually like censorship on either side.
With so many untruths, twisting of words it is no wonder that some sensorship is happening.
-
I think your recollections are faulty. I also think that in 2007 leaving children home alone was not something most people did. Therefore it was normal to ensure children were supervised and abnormal not to.
Factor in the McCann revisionism, subtract the first number you thought of.....now it's normal! BOOM!
-
How can it be off-topic when I was recounting the theory of another...thread title...: A Good, Bad or Average Theory What's The Difference?
According to your initial post that is incorrect.
On the basis that you had listened in to her conversation about family gatherings, unsolicited you asked her opinion ~ "I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible."
Her response suggests that she was astounded at the query as I bet most people would have been but contrary to your suggestion I don't think she even gave you her opinion let alone a theory.
Her alleged response according to you was nothing more or less than an embarrassing (for you) generalisation ... and your post about it caused deflection.
-
In my opinion the cultural differences between the Portuguese and the British made it very difficult for the Portuguese to understand and accept the McCann's method of 'childcare'. It was difficult for many British people to understand too, despite what Jane Tanner said.
It is normal (culturally, traditionally, education/examples seen) [for] English tourists to leave, for some time, their small children alone in the bedroom/apartment to sleep while the parents are absent, normally guaranteeing that it is done for short periods of time (15/30 minutes). At those times there is a sporadic check, in time, of the places where the children are.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm
What, I wonder, did Jane mean? As far as I know the group she was with were the only people staying at the Ocean Club that week who decided to do that. That makes it anything but normal imo.
Well might you wonder.
Like me perhaps you would rather have relied on a verbatim report or a recorded one than place any reliance on a paraphrased account from a translator then translated by a volunteer translator doing it in a rush.
No wonder you appear to be confused.
-
Well might you wonder.
Like me perhaps you would rather have relied on a verbatim report or a recorded one than place any reliance on a paraphrased account from a translator then translated by a volunteer translator doing it in a rush.
No wonder you appear to be confused.
I think Jane's intention was to suggest that leaving small children home alone when on holiday was some sort of British cultural tradition. It wasn't.
-
Many will think 'no smoke without fire' and the British tabloids certainly played a part in shaping opinion. Ok they had to shell out and T7 minus ROB were happy to stand for photo shoot outside court but damage was done.
Yes I remember reading about the 100% DNA of Madeleine in the paper and thought, OMG!! I really feel sorry for the McCann's, news like that spreading like wild fire and not able to put their side of the story out there. It was the right time for them to leave Portugal, Amaral had made sure people thought they were guilty, no one was searching for Madeleine.
-
Yes I remember reading about the 100% DNA of Madeleine in the paper and thought, OMG!! I really feel sorry for the McCann's, news like that spreading like wild fire and not able to put their side of the story out there. It was the right time for them to leave Portugal, Amaral had made sure people thought they were guilty, no one was searching for Madeleine.
What constitutes 'searching' post the initial 3 months for a member of the general public?
And everyone just totally stopped searching?
Everton chairman Bill Kenwright said: "I will never, ever forget that image of a beautiful, smiling child in an Everton shirt.
"I believe that I was one of the first people outside the family to see it and it moved me greatly.
"In truth, like everyone else, I have felt nothing but deep sadness and mounting frustration as the search for Maddie has continued.
"However, I continue to be inspired by the dignity and the faith which Kate and Gerry have displayed throughout their dreadful ordeal.
"This is just our way of reminding people - not just in the UK and Portugal but across the globe - that this child is still out there somewhere."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8317910.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8317910.stm)
-
I think Jane's intention was to suggest that leaving small children home alone when on holiday was some sort of British cultural tradition. It wasn't.
Unlike you I don't wonder ... I know that what Jane said was paraphrased by interpreter Filipa Maria da Conceicao Silva, therefore what we are reading was not said by Jane.
What I don't know is how many times it was translated until eventually being translated by volunteers before being posted on the internet.
-
Unlike you I don't wonder ... I know that what Jane said was paraphrased by interpreter Filipa Maria da Conceicao Silva, therefore what we are reading was not said by Jane.
What I don't know is how many times it was translated until eventually being translated by volunteers before being posted on the internet.
I think you're either fooling yourself or trying to fool others.
-
According to your initial post that is incorrect.
On the basis that you had listened in to her conversation about family gatherings, unsolicited you asked her opinion ~ "I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible."
Her response suggests that she was astounded at the query as I bet most people would have been but contrary to your suggestion I don't think she even gave you her opinion let alone a theory.
Her alleged response according to you was nothing more or less than an embarrassing (for you) generalisation ... and your post about it caused deflection.
I could not help but overhear given I was in an M&S changing room trying on some rather attractive bras from the 'Rosie' range and the Potuguese woman, an M&S employee, was standing outside discussing her family gatherings with a colleague. We ended up discussing the case for some 10 mins and even exchanged mobile numbers so that we can meet up for a coffee to discuss further.
-
I think you're either fooling yourself or trying to fool others.
Please debate my post even if it is now off topic like all the rest ... please do not make personal attacks on me by making spurious allegations. That is contrary to forum rules.
-
I could not help but overhear given I was in an M&S changing room trying on some rather attractive bras from the 'Rosie' range and the Potuguese woman, an M&S employee, was standing outside discussing her family gatherings with a colleague. We ended up discussing the case for some 10 mins and even exchanged mobile numbers so that we can meet up for a coffee to discuss further.
Do you really think these posts detailing your personal life are relevant to the thread topic or of general interest.
Please consider this question rhetorical.
-
Don't answer that, Holly.
-
I could not help but overhear given I was in an M&S changing room trying on some rather attractive bras from the 'Rosie' range and the Potuguese woman, an M&S employee, was standing outside discussing her family gatherings with a colleague. We ended up discussing the case for some 10 mins and even exchanged mobile numbers so that we can meet up for a coffee to discuss further.
Do we need the name of the range... I'm more of a Boux Avenue man myself
-
Yes I remember reading about the 100% DNA of Madeleine in the paper and thought, OMG!! I really feel sorry for the McCann's, news like that spreading like wild fire and not able to put their side of the story out there. It was the right time for them to leave Portugal, Amaral had made sure people thought they were guilty, no one was searching for Madeleine.
I referred to the British press which had nothing to do with GA/Portugal.
-
Yes I remember reading about the 100% DNA of Madeleine in the paper and thought, OMG!! I really feel sorry for the McCann's, news like that spreading like wild fire and not able to put their side of the story out there. It was the right time for them to leave Portugal, Amaral had made sure people thought they were guilty, no one was searching for Madeleine.
Wow, what superhuman powers this man must have had @)(++(*
-
Wow, what superhuman powers this man must have had @)(++(*
The Marshall Applewhite of Portimao. 'Everyone, don your purple shell suits now! The mother ship is in orbit' 'Stop searching for the little girl, she's gone now!'
-
Do we need the name of the range... I'm more of a Boux Avenue man myself
Yes because the non Rosie ranges are typical M&S ie dull and boring and I would not want anyone here thinking my undies are dull and boring!
-
Were other families at the Ocean Club leaving their children home alone? Common behaviour means normal behaviour.
From BOD:
He told us they were leaving theirs sleeping in the apartments. While they chatted on, I ruminated on the pros and cons of this. I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
-
I could not help but overhear given I was in an M&S changing room trying on some rather attractive bras from the 'Rosie' range and the Potuguese woman, an M&S employee, was standing outside discussing her family gatherings with a colleague. We ended up discussing the case for some 10 mins and even exchanged mobile numbers so that we can meet up for a coffee to discuss further.
@)(++(*. How udderly brazarre!
PS: this Portuguese employee sounds like a complete waste of space - didn’t she have anything better to do than gossip with her colleague and chat for ten whole minutes about the McCanns, and at such a busy time of year too? She’d get the sack if I were her boss.
-
In my opinion the cultural differences between the Portuguese and the British made it very difficult for the Portuguese to understand and accept the McCann's method of 'childcare'. It was difficult for many British people to understand too, despite what Jane Tanner said.
It is normal (culturally, traditionally, education/examples seen) [for] English tourists to leave, for some time, their small children alone in the bedroom/apartment to sleep while the parents are absent, normally guaranteeing that it is done for short periods of time (15/30 minutes). At those times there is a sporadic check, in time, of the places where the children are.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm
What, I wonder, did Jane mean? As far as I know the group she was with were the only people staying at the Ocean Club that week who decided to do that. That makes it anything but normal imo.
As far as YOU know !! What factually do YOU actually know about, "if others were doing something similar to the Tapas Group" ?
You know nothing about the actual figures, do you?
It is normal (culturally, traditionally, education/examples seen) [for] English tourists to leave, for some time, their small children alone in the bedroom/apartment to sleep while the parents are absent, normally guaranteeing that it is done for short periods of time (15/30 minutes). At those times there is a sporadic check, in time, of the places where the children are.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm
Seems likely that like many average families in the UK, Jane as a child, went to Butlins where half hour checks were made by complete strangers to the kids. This was just to the outside of the chalet.
and at some of the bigger sites they could be a quarter of a mile or more away.
Or her family camped or caravanned. IMO It was common when we caravanned to see other caravanners quite a distance from their own caravan leaving sleeping kids, whilst they chatted and had a drink together.
-
I don't think so. Can anyone provide a cite to show that they were ?
Anyone provide a cite to prove they weren't ?
It was your side that suggested it. Up to you to prove it.
-
According to your initial post that is incorrect.
On the basis that you had listened in to her conversation about family gatherings, unsolicited you asked her opinion ~ "I asked her opinion about MM case and she said most of Portugal think McCanns responsible."
Her response suggests that she was astounded at the query as I bet most people would have been but contrary to your suggestion I don't think she even gave you her opinion let alone a theory.
Her alleged response according to you was nothing more or less than an embarrassing (for you) generalisation ... and your post about it caused deflection.
I wonder what they think now that Amarals mate, Cristovao has been sentenced for such heiniuos crimes? And that on top of Amaral criminalising himself by perjury in the Courts of Law.
Surely they are not brain dead, are they?
-
I wonder what they think now that Amarals mate, Cristovao has been sentenced for such heiniuos crimes? And that on top of Amaral criminalising himself by perjury in the Courts of Law.
Surely they are not brain dead, are they?
Outside of about 30 miles......tumbleweed. Nobody cares.
-
I wonder what they think now that Amarals mate, Cristovao has been sentenced for such heiniuos crimes? And that on top of Amaral criminalising himself by perjury in the Courts of Law.
Surely they are not brain dead, are they?
Everyone loves a rogue, as this latest general election has demonstrated.
-
As far as YOU know !! What factually do YOU actually know about, "if others were doing something similar to the Tapas Group" ?
You know nothing about the actual figures, do you?
Seems likely that like many average families in the UK, Jane as a child, went to Butlins where half hour checks were made by complete strangers to the kids. This was just to the outside of the chalet.
and at some of the bigger sites they could be a quarter of a mile or more away.
Or her family camped or caravanned. IMO It was common when we caravanned to see other caravanners quite a distance from their own caravan leaving sleeping kids, whilst they chatted and had a drink together.
I don't see how a few campers or some people going to Butlins created a 'culture' of leaving small children home alone on holiday. Even if it did, that's all in the past and times have changed. I was allowed to roam at will as a child and I only checked in at mealtimes. No children are allowed to do that these days.
-
I don't see how a few campers or some people going to Butlins created a 'culture' of leaving small children home alone on holiday. Even if it did, that's all in the past and times have changed. I was allowed to roam at will as a child and I only checked in at mealtimes. No children are allowed to do that these days.
Why, was a law passed?
-
Why, was a law passed?
Now you mention it:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/31/contents (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/31/contents)
-
Now you mention it:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/31/contents (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/31/contents)
Can you point to the specific part of the legislation that forbids children to go out to play in their neighbourhoods. Ta.
-
Can you point to the specific part of the legislation that forbids children to go out to play in their neighbourhoods. Ta.
Read it. Then get back to me.
There's other legislation that you're probably unaware of.
-
Putting children to bed... Going out to eat an evening meal... Checking at intervals... Was a part of our culture. It was still being promoted on MW website and other hotels after Maddie was abducted
-
Read it. Then get back to me.
There's other legislation that you're probably unaware of.
No time. Are you telling me it is illegal now for kids to play out?
-
Putting children to bed... Going out to eat an evening meal... Checking at intervals... Was a part of our culture. It was still being promoted on MW website and other hotels after Maddie was abducted
[scantily clad woman pops out of a Christmas present] - Cite, cite, cite!
-
What constitutes 'searching' post the initial 3 months for a member of the general public?
And everyone just totally stopped searching?
Everton chairman Bill Kenwright said: "I will never, ever forget that image of a beautiful, smiling child in an Everton shirt.
"I believe that I was one of the first people outside the family to see it and it moved me greatly.
"In truth, like everyone else, I have felt nothing but deep sadness and mounting frustration as the search for Maddie has continued.
"However, I continue to be inspired by the dignity and the faith which Kate and Gerry have displayed throughout their dreadful ordeal.
"This is just our way of reminding people - not just in the UK and Portugal but across the globe - that this child is still out there somewhere."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8317910.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8317910.stm)
Amaral wasn't searching for Madeleine, he had come to the conclusion that the McCann's had faked an abduction and hidden Madeleine's body. The crowds in the street when the McCann's were made aguido's, did you miss that? It soon spread that the McCann's according to Amaral were guilty and Madeleine was dead, no more searching required.
-
Wow, what superhuman powers this man must have had @)(++(*
How amusing for you. Yes, it only took one man to come up with a ridiculous theory, though never proven. Amaral stopped the Police search for Madeleine.
-
How amusing for you. Yes, it only took one man to come up with a ridiculous theory, though never proven. Amaral stopped the Police search for Madeleine.
Don't forget the IMO bit
-
How amusing for you. Yes, it only took one man to come up with a ridiculous theory, though never proven. Amaral stopped the Police search for Madeleine.
As far as I can see none of the theories have been proven, so your first point is moot.
This supposed, inept, drunken,bumbling, buffoon single-handedly stopped the world searching? What a dichotomy he's turning out to be.
Rubbish at policeman stuff; world leading at global influence.
-
As far as I can see none of the theories have been proven, so your first point is moot.
This supposed, inept, drunken,bumbling, buffoon single-handedly stopped the world searching? What a dichotomy he's turning out to be.
Rubbish at policeman stuff; world leading at global influence.
Lies are halfway across The Planet while Truth is still putting it's boots on.
-
Lies are halfway across The Planet while Truth is still putting it's boots on.
Let's all quote Mark Twain (or Shania): “Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.”
-
Putting children to bed... Going out to eat an evening meal... Checking at intervals... Was a part of our culture. It was still being promoted on MW website and other hotels after Maddie was abducted
No it wasn't part of our culture. There were isolated examples which many parents were uncomfortable with. It certainly wasn't widespread imo.
-
No it wasn't part of our culture. There were isolated examples which many parents were uncomfortable with. It certainly wasn't widespread imo.
It was part of uk culture... It was advertised on the MW website and many hotels. These were not isolated incidents and obviously some parents were quite comfortable with it
In this small forum there are probably at least 5 posters who have experience of it... What's that as a percentage
-
It was part of uk culture... It was advertised on the MW website and many hotels. These were not isolated incidents and obviously some parents were quite comfortable with it
Clearly. And I like the way you used the term 'incidents', which was probably Freudian (Sigmund, not Clement)
-
It was part of uk culture... It was advertised on the MW website and many hotels. These were not isolated incidents and obviously some parents were quite comfortable with it
In this small forum there are probably at least 5 posters who have experience of it... What's that as a percentage
0.06%
-
There have been some 8000+ alleged sightings of Maddie during her world tour. That's quite an impressive figure, considering no one was looking for her.
-
Putting children to bed... Going out to eat an evening meal... Checking at intervals... Was a part of our culture. It was still being promoted on MW website and other hotels after Maddie was abducted
Putting them to bed? Really? on top or under covers?
-
It was part of uk culture... It was advertised on the MW website and many hotels. These were not isolated incidents and obviously some parents were quite comfortable with it
In this small forum there are probably at least 5 posters who have experience of it... What's that as a percentage
100%, if they are telling the truth.
-
0.06%
Do you work for the labour party
-
100%, if they are telling the truth.
100% of the 5, yes.
-
Do you work for the labour party
No.
-
There are a small number if posters here and of these 5 have first hand experience of baby listening
-
Putting children to bed... Going out to eat an evening meal... Checking at intervals... Was a part of our culture. It was still being promoted on MW website and other hotels after Maddie was abducted
My guess is the children left under this MW arrangement were not as young as the children of T9 but regardless 'the listeners' were listening behind locked doors which is a wholly different arrangement to what the McCanns were doing and possibly the others too if they were slipping up the back passage and thru patio doors. Also as I understand it 'the listeners' were on constant patrol not checking every 30 mins. Plus I doubt the parents using this arrangement used it every night maybe one or twice to have some adult time.
The McCanns evening childcare arrangements were a complete aberration.
-
My guess is the children left under this MW arrangement were not as young as the children of T9 but regardless 'the listeners' were listening behind locked doors which is a wholly different arrangement to what the McCanns were doing and possibly the others too if they were slipping up the back passage and thru patio doors. Also as I understand it 'the listeners' were on constant patrol not checking every 30 mins. Plus I doubt the parents using this arrangement used it every night maybe one or twice to have some adult time.
The McCanns evening childcare arrangements were a complete aberration.
I'm talking about baby listening in general... Not specifically the mccanns... And whether it was a part of our culture... Which I believe it was..
The mccanns were a variation... Saying it was a complete aberration is opinion... Not fact
-
There have been some 8000+ alleged sightings of Maddie during her world tour. That's quite an impressive figure, considering no one was looking for her.
The PJ weren't looking for Madeleine. The McCann's have done a wonderful job keeping Madeleine in the media. If they hadn't there wouldn't have been the sightings.
-
My guess is the children left under this MW arrangement were not as young as the children of T9 but regardless 'the listeners' were listening behind locked doors which is a wholly different arrangement to what the McCanns were doing and possibly the others too if they were slipping up the back passage and thru patio doors. Also as I understand it 'the listeners' were on constant patrol not checking every 30 mins. Plus I doubt the parents using this arrangement used it every night maybe one or twice to have some adult time.
The McCanns evening childcare arrangements were a complete aberration.
In Your Opinion.
-
There are a small number if posters here and of these 5 have first hand experience of baby listening
So 100% of the supporters who expressed a preference had first hand experience of baby listening service (which wasn't what the T9 were using). So that's 100%.
Not enough data.
Does not compute.
Pointless exercise.
-
I'm talking about baby listening in general... Not specifically the mccanns... And whether it was a part of our culture... Which I believe it was..
The mccanns were a variation... Saying it was a complete aberration is opinion... Not fact
Do you have any evidence of anyone anywhere leaving small children night after night in an unlocked holiday apartment whilst the parents dined out and where the parents could not possibly see/hear what was going on?
-
The PJ weren't looking for Madeleine. The McCann's have done a wonderful job keeping Madeleine in the media. If they hadn't there wouldn't have been the sightings.
What, no sightings whatsoever? Lord Lucan still gets a smattering of sightings to this day.
-
The PJ weren't looking for Madeleine. The McCann's have done a wonderful job keeping Madeleine in the media. If they hadn't there wouldn't have been the sightings.
How terribly helpful all those sightings have been, hence the reason Maddie is home safe & we.....Oh, no wait. that's right.
-
In Your Opinion.
Opinion about what? The MW listening service is not my opinion it is fact based set out in the brochure. The service involved parents leaving their children asleep in secured holiday accommodation whilst they dined out of an evening. 'Listeners' would then patrol the relevant accommodation by listening outside secured accommodation for any disturbance eg crying. In the event of any such disturbance the parents would be contacted and return to the accommodation to resettle their children. This is a wholly different arrangement from the one orchestrated by GM/KM/MO/RO/ROB and JT.
-
Do you have any evidence of anyone anywhere leaving small children night after night in an unlocked holiday apartment whilst the parents dined out and where the parents could not possibly see/hear what was going on?
We were discussing the culture of babylistening..... Not specifically the mccanns.. As I've said twice now... That's what my post relates to
-
Opinion about what? The MW listening service is not my opinion it is fact based set out in the brochure. The service involved parents leaving their children asleep in secured holiday accommodation whilst they dined out of an evening. 'Listeners' would then patrol the relevant accommodation by listening outside secured accommodation for any disturbance eg crying. In the event of any such disturbance the parents would be contacted and return to the accommodation to resettle their children. This is a wholly different arrangement from the one orchestrated by GM/KM/MO/RO/ROB and JT.
Opinion that the mccanns arrangement was a complete aberration ...more a variation.. Imo
-
Opinion that the mccanns arrangement was a complete aberration ...more a variation.. Imo
So you think some parents leave children under 4 yoa in unlocked holiday accommodation whilst they dine out at a venue where the distance was such they cannot possibly know what was going on?
Since the advent of mass tourism no British family has gone on holiday anywhere in the world and had to return home with one child fewer than they departed with. I would suggest the reason for this is that would be abductors are not presented with low risk opportunities ie very small children home alone in unsecured holiday accommodation.
-
So you think some parents leave children under 4 yoa in unlocked holiday accommodation whilst they dine out at a venue where the distance was such they cannot possibly know what was going on?
Since the advent of mass tourism no British family has gone on holiday anywhere in the world and had to return home with one child fewer than they departed with. I would suggest the reason for this is that would be abductors are not presented with low risk opportunities ie very small children home alone in unsecured holiday accommodation.
What I think is exactly what I have posted....plus if Maddie was abducted the unlocked door may have played no part.
Your post illustrates how unlikely abduction was which is probably why the mccanns didn't consider it
-
How terribly helpful all those sightings have been, hence the reason Maddie is home safe & we.....Oh, no wait. that's right.
Are you feeling smug that Madeleine isn't home? Some sightings may well have been Madeleine, the Police arrived too late to some of them and in others there was no video camera to search.
-
Opinion about what? The MW listening service is not my opinion it is fact based set out in the brochure. The service involved parents leaving their children asleep in secured holiday accommodation whilst they dined out of an evening. 'Listeners' would then patrol the relevant accommodation by listening outside secured accommodation for any disturbance eg crying. In the event of any such disturbance the parents would be contacted and return to the accommodation to resettle their children. This is a wholly different arrangement from the one orchestrated by GM/KM/MO/RO/ROB and JT.
A Complete Aberration.
-
What, no sightings whatsoever? Lord Lucan still gets a smattering of sightings to this day.
He gets sightings as the case was made public, even now on the anniversary of his disappearance somewhere there will be a story.
-
What I think is exactly what I have posted....plus if Maddie was abducted the unlocked door may have played no part.
Your post illustrates how unlikely abduction was which is probably why the mccanns didn't consider it
Let's use this 'logic' then. So what is way more likely? That by leaving the door open she could literally just get up and go out. Did they 'consider' this? What did they 'consider'?
-
Let's use this 'logic' then. So what is way more likely? That by leaving the door open she could literally just get up and go out. Did they 'consider' this? What did they 'consider'?
The point im making is that the unlocked door may or may not have played any part. I would be interested to know what was the point of entry in the previous burglaries we have been told happened. If it was raised shutters taht would certainly add credence to the McCanns account
-
My guess is the children left under this MW arrangement were not as young as the children of T9 but regardless 'the listeners' were listening behind locked doors which is a wholly different arrangement to what the McCanns were doing and possibly the others too if they were slipping up the back passage and thru patio doors. Also as I understand it 'the listeners' were on constant patrol not checking every 30 mins. Plus I doubt the parents using this arrangement used it every night maybe one or twice to have some adult time.
The McCanns evening childcare arrangements were a complete aberration.
I get the feeling you enjoy writing “slipping up the back passage” quite alot.
-
I missed something? what is bad about discussing a passageway with reference to child security?
Some people just get upset at the least thing... seriously!
-
I missed something? what is bad about discussing a passageway with reference to child security?
Some people just get upset at the least thing... seriously!
(&^&
-
The post was explained to me- smutty minds to find innocent post with sexual connotations and attribute it to the author.
Lewd, and disgusting interpretation.In Many peoples opinion.
-
The post was explained to me- smutty minds to find innocent post with sexual connotations and attribute it to the author.
Lewd, and disgusting interpretation.In Many peoples opinion.
When someone wants to talk about their underwear....has a name of Holly Goodhead...ask someone what that means...and talks about slipping up back passsages...you'd have to be bit thick not to realise it was intentional.
Its al Carry on up the Khyber Holly humour...
-
The post was explained to me- smutty minds to find innocent post with sexual connotations and attribute it to the author.
Lewd, and disgusting interpretation.In Many peoples opinion.
(&^&
-
When someone wants to talk about their underwear....has a name of Holly Goodhead...ask someone what that means...and talks about slipping up back passsages...you'd have to be bit thick not to realise it was intentional.
Its al Carry on up the Khyber Holly humour...
Just because I do not do innuendo does not make me thick. name calling is against forum rules so hopefully that post will be amended
.- I am not a lewd person and my family do not subscribe to smutty humour. For the supporters to constantly claim they do not care- they certainly manage to read and rewrite posts to suit their own group. The group saw the smut and laughed. And these are the same poor wee souls who are offended at everything and anything for and on behalf of others.
I now know why they are not offended by Kate discussing her child's private parts in explicit terms, or her sex life- says it all really. I now know who I am dealing with.
-
Just because I do not do innuendo does not make me thick. name calling is against forum rules so hopefully that post will be amended
.- I am not a lewd person and my family do not subscribe to smutty humour. For the supporters to constantly claim they do not care- they certainly manage to read and rewrite posts to suit their own group. The group saw the smut and laughed. And these are the same poor wee souls who are offended at everything and anything for and on behalf of others.
I now know why they are not offended by Kate discussing her child's private parts in explicit terms, or her sex life- says it all really. I now know who I am dealing with.
I'm not in the slightest offended by Hollys innuendo ...nor by Kates description in her book
-
Just because I do not do innuendo does not make me thick. name calling is against forum rules so hopefully that post will be amended
.- I am not a lewd person and my family do not subscribe to smutty humour. For the supporters to constantly claim they do not care- they certainly manage to read and rewrite posts to suit their own group. The group saw the smut and laughed. And these are the same poor wee souls who are offended at everything and anything for and on behalf of others.
I now know why they are not offended by Kate discussing her child's private parts in explicit terms, or her sex life- says it all really. I now know who I am dealing with.
(&^& (&^&
-
Let's use this 'logic' then. So what is way more likely? That by leaving the door open she could literally just get up and go out. Did they 'consider' this? What did they 'consider'?
G would know the answer to this- the conversation from the rogs.
No one is allowed to consider anything that does not fit the narrative of the parents and supporters.
The door should never have been mentioned as this puts a hellish strain on the 'abducted via window' story.
Ahh the abducted by window story...
Walk and wandered is a real theory -but puts the parents in a bad light.
-
G would know the answer to this- the conversation from the rogs.
No one is allowed to consider anything that does not fit the narrative of the parents and supporters.
The door should never have been mentioned as this puts a hellish strain on the 'abducted via window' story.
Ahh the abducted by window story...
Walk and wandered is a real theory -but puts the parents in a bad light.
Kate's revelation about the unlocked patio doors wasn't mentioned until the rogatory interviews. Jane mentioned in her 10th May statement the conversation with Kate about Madeleine asking them where they were the night before, but she said nothing about the patio doors being left open. In fact when asked she denied any knowledge of the patio doors being left open. She said she'd suspected, that's all.
-
‘That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open’. (Matthew Oldfield)
Has the Master bedroom’s window been forensically investigated? Carole Tranmer stated that she saw a man opening the small gate of the Oldfield’s apartment and closing it in a way not to attract attention. Has it been considered that a person would enter 5B’s small gate and climbed over the wall to access 5A, either through the patio doors or the Master bedroom window?
-
‘That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open’. (Matthew Oldfield)
Has the Master bedroom’s window been forensically investigated? Carole Tranmer stated that she saw a man opening the small gate of the Oldfield’s apartment and closing it in a way not to attract attention. Has it been considered that a person would enter 5B’s small gate and climbed over the wall to access 5A, either through the patio doors or the Master bedroom window?
I wonder what that could have been, the thing outside the bedroom window that was emitting light?
-
‘That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open’. (Matthew Oldfield)
Has the Master bedroom’s window been forensically investigated? Carole Tranmer stated that she saw a man opening the small gate of the Oldfield’s apartment and closing it in a way not to attract attention. Has it been considered that a person would enter 5B’s small gate and climbed over the wall to access 5A, either through the patio doors or the Master bedroom window?
The Master (parents) bedroom has a patio door covered by an external shutter. An intruder would not have chosen such a difficult means of entry when there were simpler alternatives. I don't discount the idea someone could have used 5B's garden as an initial hiding place before climbing over the wall.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
The Master (parents) bedroom has a patio door covered by an external shutter. An intruder would not have chosen such a difficult means of entry when there were simpler alternatives. I don't discount the idea someone could have used 5B's garden as an initial hiding place before climbing over the wall.
Why did he need to hide? he was seen strutting around PDL in front of JT's very eyes,in front of Gerry who had just left the apartment...
-
Kate's revelation about the unlocked patio doors wasn't mentioned until the rogatory interviews. Jane mentioned in her 10th May statement the conversation with Kate about Madeleine asking them where they were the night before, but she said nothing about the patio doors being left open. In fact when asked she denied any knowledge of the patio doors being left open. She said she'd suspected, that's all.
What revelation are you referring to?
-
Kate's revelation about the unlocked patio doors wasn't mentioned until the rogatory interviews. Jane mentioned in her 10th May statement the conversation with Kate about Madeleine asking them where they were the night before, but she said nothing about the patio doors being left open. In fact when asked she denied any knowledge of the patio doors being left open. She said she'd suspected, that's all.
Kate said the patio doors were open in her 4th may statement
Around 9.30pm was the time the interviewee should have gone to see her children, but her friend Matt (a member of the group) had just done a check in his apartment then gone to the interviewee's. He had entered the apartment by a glass sliding side door, that was always unlocked and once inside had not gone into the children's bedroom. He only looked through the door, and did not hear any noise. He went back to the restaurant and said that everything was fine.
At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as
-
‘That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open’. (Matthew Oldfield)
Has the Master bedroom’s window been forensically investigated? Carole Tranmer stated that she saw a man opening the small gate of the Oldfield’s apartment and closing it in a way not to attract attention. Has it been considered that a person would enter 5B’s small gate and climbed over the wall to access 5A, either through the patio doors or the Master bedroom window?
That's how Madeleine exited the apartment in my theory via the parents bedroom door and if you read my theory you will know why. There's no way that door would be unlocked unless it was intentional.
-
I was speaking of the conversation at the table on 3rd May. Fiona reports that Kate mentioned leaving the doors unlocked, but Jane doesn't, although she discusses the conversation on 10th May in her PJ interview.
-
Oh Dear. What a pity. 08.30am on Christmas Eve, French time that is.
Roll on Christmas Day is all I can say.
-
Oh Dear. What a pity. 08.30am on Christmas Eve, French time that is.
Roll on Christmas Day is all I can say.
Merry Christmas to you Eleanor, and to all here despite our differences and beliefs.
-
Oh Dear. What a pity. 08.30am on Christmas Eve, French time that is.
Roll on Christmas Day is all I can say.
Christmas day or Lady day,the case remains (to paraphrase Churchill:) It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
-
Merry Christmas to you Eleanor, and to all here despite our differences and beliefs.
The differences are only a problem when the opposites insist on being right.
-
Merry Christmas to you Eleanor, and to all here despite our differences and beliefs.
Thank You. And to you too also.
-
Christmas day or Lady day,the case remains (to paraphrase Churchill:) It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
I always thought that was Woody Allen.
PS I insist I’m right btw. Merry Crimbo!
-
I always thought that was Woody Allen.
PS I insist I’m right btw. Merry Crimbo!
Happy Christmas to yourself.
-
A happy and peaceful Christmas to all. X
-
Oh Dear. What a pity. 08.30am on Christmas Eve, French time that is.
Roll on Christmas Day is all I can say.
Things will be still the same on Christmas Day.
-
Things will be still the same on Christmas Day.
I hope not. But you are probably right.
What time is it with you?
-
Things will be still the same on Christmas Day.
Why should they be different
-
I hope not. But you are probably right.
What time is it with you?
It is early Christmas morning, and everyone but me and my cat named "Gas" are asleep. Gas woke me up because she was wanting something to eat, she could catch a mouse but prefers fresh fish, but it being Christmas there will be no fresh fish today.
Carol bought her a "cat sausage" a type she never had before for a Christmas treat but she only turns her nose up at that.
-
Why should they be different
Well as you know I've been working hard on the JonBenet case and she was kidnapped late on Christmas Day and in the morning of Boxing Day she was found murdered.
Now to my surprise the Americans don't treat Boxing Day as anything special, and to my surprise banks were open so the parents were able to raise the ransom demand on the 26th Dec.
You'd be out of luck in NZ.
Do you give gifts at Christmas. I refuse to be caught up in the commercial Christmas.
-
Well as you know I've been working hard on the JonBenet case and she was kidnapped late on Christmas Day and in the morning of Boxing Day she was found murdered.
Now to my surprise the Americans don't treat Boxing Day as anything special, and to my surprise banks were open so the parents were able to raise the ransom demand on the 26th Dec.
You'd be out of luck in NZ.
Do you give gifts at Christmas. I refuse to be caught up in the commercial Christmas.
It's a good question.. Basically I don't give gifts at Christmas.. Christmas is a time when we are supposed to be nice to each other... Wouldn't it be good if we could could be nice all the time.. I see so much nastiness on this forum..
Being nice isn't just for Christmas
-
It is early Christmas morning, and everyone but me and my cat named "Gas" are asleep. Gas woke me up because she was wanting something to eat, she could catch a mouse but prefers fresh fish, but it being Christmas there will be no fresh fish today.
Carol bought her a "cat sausage" a type she never had before for a Christmas treat but she only turns her nose up at that.
Happy Christmas and love to Carol by the way. xx
-
Wishing you all the best. Merry Christmas from sunny South Africa.
-
Merry Christmas, Feliz Natal, joyeux Noël!!!!
-
Merry Christmas, Feliz Natal, joyeux Noël!!!!
Desejo a todos Feliz Natal e Próspero Ano Novo. joyeux Noël = Merry Christmas.
-
That's how Madeleine exited the apartment in my theory via the parents bedroom door and if you read my theory you will know why. There's no way that door would be unlocked unless it was intentional.
Have you considerd that the parents bedroom faced south so caught the sun during the day?
No air con was there?
Maybe they cracked their bedroom patio door open to make the bedroom cool enough for sleeping ?
After all, what purpose was there to lock it if the patio door in the next room (the sitting room) was unlocked ?
Unfortunately the bedroom patio door was pretty well hidden by a bush in the garden, and IMO would have been a more tempting way in because of this.
However, IMO, the most tempting way in was via the front door. Several reasons have already been presnted on forum to suggest that the front door was the likely way in. IMO
-
I will be monitoring these boards closely over the next few days to ensure that our rules are fully complied with.
Admin
-
Have you considerd that the parents bedroom faced south so caught the sun during the day?
No air con was there?
Maybe they cracked their bedroom patio door open to make the bedroom cool enough for sleeping ?
After all, what purpose was there to lock it if the patio door in the next room (the sitting room) was unlocked ?
Unfortunately the bedroom patio door was pretty well hidden by a bush in the garden, and IMO would have been a more tempting way in because of this.
However, IMO, the most tempting way in was via the front door. Several reasons have already been presnted on forum to suggest that the front door was the likely way in. IMO
You have a problem - a key was required to enter the front way. The unlocked patio side was the most probable entry and that side is where Eddie alerted. He was very interested in the area outside the parent's bedroom door and not interested in the main patio door. That is a clue along with his parent's bedroom alert and it was not missed by me!
Another clue!
Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
-
You have a problem - a key was required to enter the front way. The unlocked patio side was the most probable entry and that side is where Eddie alerted. He was very interested in the area outside the parent's bedroom door and not interested in the main patio door. That is a clue along with his parent's bedroom alert and it was not missed by me!
Another clue!
Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
CSI didn't do any forensics in the parents' bedroom. I think what you have emboldened relates to the two doors which make up the entrance-way to the lounge.
-
A hair band was also found. Evidence is mounting up at that location.
An undated and unsigned hand-written note, very difficult to read but appearing to be written by a police officer from Aljezur, stating that on 4 (or 9) May around 06:00am (s)he found an 'elastica para o cabelo' (hair elastic?), abandoned/lost on the floor of (what could be) the back of the parents' bedroom.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUNDRYS.htm
Rachel claimed Matt looked into the parent's bedroom on his check. He needs to be questioned further on what he observed and that patio door.
"poked his head, well you know kind of looked into Gerry and Kates room".
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
The curtains were not fully closed in crime scene photos and you could go through the door in the gap
(https://crimerocket.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/sun-05-08-08-6of7.jpg?w=676)
-
I've been waiting for a friend of mine whose someone of an 'expert' in an area I consider relevant to my suspect/theory and as I thought its looking very interesting indeed and there's still more to do!
-
I've been waiting for a friend of mine whose someone of an 'expert' in an area I consider relevant to my suspect/theory and as I thought its looking very interesting indeed and there's still more to do!
Ooh, how tantalising. I doubt any of us will be any the wiser about this amazing revelation by this time next year.
-
I've been waiting for a friend of mine whose someone of an 'expert' in an area I consider relevant to my suspect/theory and as I thought its looking very interesting indeed and there's still more to do!
Sounds promising.
-
Hi Pathfinder. What do you mean when you say you could go through the door in the gap? Do you think the patio door shutters were not down then? I wonder what the line of sight was like to there from the Tapas?
-
You would think the curtains would be fully closed at night unless you wanted access to that door. Just my observation on crime scene photos like the crumpled curtain behind the sofa where both dogs later alerted.
-
You would think the curtains would be fully closed at night unless you wanted access to that door. Just my observation on crime scene photos like the crumpled curtain behind the sofa where both dogs later alerted.
You might think so.
Other people who might be capable of appreciating the desperate search for a missing child might think disturbing curtains to look behind them on the chance she might be there seems a perfectly normal and appropriate thing to do.
At the time it obviously wasn't considered important enough for the Judicial Police to carry out forensic checks anywhere in the room let alone the windows and the curtains.
The Judicial Police were there at the time with total control of the investigation ... why was it do you think that they didn't attach the same significance that you and I would imagine any properly trained investigator whould do to all areas of the crime scene?
After all they were the guys taking the crime scene photographs on which you set such store and the other forensic evidence yet they managed to miss the staining on the wall behind the couch which I think might have been tested later and found to be snot or some such thing.
Not forgetting their sloppiness in not bothering to look inside any bags seen lying around on their watch.
-
You might think so.
Other people who might be capable of appreciating the desperate search for a missing child might think disturbing curtains to look behind them on the chance she might be there seems a perfectly normal and appropriate thing to do.
At the time it obviously wasn't considered important enough for the Judicial Police to carry out forensic checks anywhere in the room let alone the windows and the curtains.
The Judicial Police were there at the time with total control of the investigation ... why was it do you think that they didn't attach the same significance that you and I would imagine any properly trained investigator whould do to all areas of the crime scene?
After all they were the guys taking the crime scene photographs on which you set such store and the other forensic evidence yet they managed to miss the staining on the wall behind the couch which I think might have been tested later and found to be snot or some such thing.
Not forgetting their sloppiness in not bothering to look inside any bags seen lying around on their watch.
What a pity there were none of these 'properly trained investigators' available (if such paragons exist). What would they have achieved, I wonder? Would they have accepted the abduction story without question, managed to turn the clock back and retrieve the 'golden hour' closed the roads and borders and found the abductor? If so, why would they have wanted to move a couch and find stains on the wall behind it?
-
What a pity there were none of these 'properly trained investigators' available (if such paragons exist). What would they have achieved, I wonder? Would they have accepted the abduction story without question, managed to turn the clock back and retrieve the 'golden hour' closed the roads and borders and found the abductor? If so, why would they have wanted to move a couch and find stains on the wall behind it?
It is indeed a great pity and it is a situation which let Madeleine down very badly.
One wonders why the Portuguese authorities didn't send in a team with the requisite training to deal with a missing child case instead of thief takers out of their depth before even starting.
Indeed, Amaral became an arguido in the only other missing child case he had ever dealt with the day after Madeleine's disappearance.
Amaral and his cohort were not the only cops in Portugal.
-
It is indeed a great pity and it is a situation which let Madeleine down very badly.
One wonders why the Portuguese authorities didn't send in a team with the requisite training to deal with a missing child case instead of thief takers out of their depth before even starting.
Indeed, Amaral became an arguido in the only other missing child case he had ever dealt with the day after Madeleine's disappearance.
Amaral and his cohort were not the only cops in Portugal.
I think the team you might be thinking of were sent in from Lisbon; the DCCB officers who came with Neves. They weren't forensic people though; they also came from Lisbon on 4th.
Were you expecting all these 'properly trained people' to arrive on the night of 3rd? How?
-
I think the team you might be thinking of were sent in from Lisbon; the DCCB officers who came with Neves. They weren't forensic people though; they also came from Lisbon on 4th.
Were you expecting all these 'properly trained people' to arrive on the night of 3rd? How?
Snip
Policia Judiciara (PJ) spokesman Olegario Sousa and Luis Neves from the Direccao Central de Combate ao Banditismo (DCCB), which deals with serious organised crime and terrorism, were thought to be there.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/madeleine-suspect-gives-second-dna-sample-amid-05--t8609.html
I'm not sure what skills a team trained to handle organised crime and terrorism might have brought to the search for a missing child although I am sure someone somewhere in authority might have thought they would have their uses.
What do you know about a dedicated child protection unit based in Porto?
-
Snip
Policia Judiciara (PJ) spokesman Olegario Sousa and Luis Neves from the Direccao Central de Combate ao Banditismo (DCCB), which deals with serious organised crime and terrorism, were thought to be there.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/madeleine-suspect-gives-second-dna-sample-amid-05--t8609.html
I'm not sure what skills a team trained to handle organised crime and terrorism might have brought to the search for a missing child although I am sure someone somewhere in authority might have thought they would have their uses.
What do you know about a dedicated child protection unit based in Porto?
Perhaps they were considering the possibility of people trafficking at that time. That's likely to be considered to be organised crime.
-
Snip
Policia Judiciara (PJ) spokesman Olegario Sousa and Luis Neves from the Direccao Central de Combate ao Banditismo (DCCB), which deals with serious organised crime and terrorism, were thought to be there.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/madeleine-suspect-gives-second-dna-sample-amid-05--t8609.html
I'm not sure what skills a team trained to handle organised crime and terrorism might have brought to the search for a missing child although I am sure someone somewhere in authority might have thought they would have their uses.
What do you know about a dedicated child protection unit based in Porto?
You don't know the capabilities of the people who were brought in then? Newspaper articles are not always the best sources imo.
POLICE REINFORCEMENTS
A team from the Central Crime Fighting Directorate (DCCB) arrives from Lisbon, accompanied by their director. I wasn't informed of this decision, but I agree with it. The reinforcements are welcomed, because we must get on very quickly. The experience of these police officers in the field of abductions and the taking of hostages is a plus for the investigation and the ways they operate are largely superior to ours. In addition, their experts are the most qualified of the police judiciaire. From now on, two deputy national directors, assisted by the coordinator of the Portimao Department of Criminal Investigation, will direct the investigations.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARALS_BOOK_ENGLISH.htm
-
You don't know the capabilities of the people who were brought in then? Newspaper articles are not always the best sources imo.
POLICE REINFORCEMENTS
A team from the Central Crime Fighting Directorate (DCCB) arrives from Lisbon, accompanied by their director. I wasn't informed of this decision, but I agree with it. The reinforcements are welcomed, because we must get on very quickly. The experience of these police officers in the field of abductions and the taking of hostages is a plus for the investigation and the ways they operate are largely superior to ours. In addition, their experts are the most qualified of the police judiciaire. From now on, two deputy national directors, assisted by the coordinator of the Portimao Department of Criminal Investigation, will direct the investigations.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARALS_BOOK_ENGLISH.htm
I don't think Amaral had much option but to agree with something which according to him was already a fait accompli by the time he was told about it.
So when did this crack outfit leave Lisbon and put feet on the ground in Luz how long did they stay there? Any ideas about which of the theories doing the rounds do you think they might have contribute to?
-
The McCanns were slower informing the police than it took them to get there. They claim they knew Madeleine had been abducted but didn't immediately call the police? Was this not an emergency? 22:41 the police were finally informed and they arrived within 30 minutes. The McCanns can't talk about a slow response! The golden hour was gone!
Smithman out and about on dark back streets with a Madeleine clone may explain it 8)--))
-
The McCanns were slower informing the police than it took them to get there. They claim they knew Madeleine had been abducted but didn't immediately call the police? Was this not an emergency? 22:41 the police were finally informed and they arrived within 30 minutes. The McCanns can't talk about a slow response! The golden hour was gone!
Smithman out and about on dark back streets with a Madeleine clone may explain it 8)--))
This is such a dumb argument and yet it gets trotted out with tedious regularity.
-
This is such a dumb argument and yet it gets trotted out with tedious regularity.
She was quick to get help from her friends but not the police. How strange! You think she would be screaming for them to be here NOW! Not an hour later.
-
The McCanns were slower informing the police than it took them to get there. They claim they knew Madeleine had been abducted but didn't immediately call the police? Was this not an emergency? 22:41 the police were finally informed and they arrived within 30 minutes. The McCanns can't talk about a slow response! The golden hour was gone!
Smithman out and about on dark back streets with a Madeleine clone may explain it 8)--))
I love this Brietta quote: "It is indeed a great pity and it is a situation which let Madeleine down very badly."
You would think someone who was concerned about a missing child would at least say as well as the parents ;letting her down so did the police.
But well that is never going to happen. But worth reminding people the TAPAS 9 ADULTS are the main reasons for their daughter going missing.
"The golden hour was gone!" We don't know when that actual golden hour was do we?
It seems callous to have a mobile phone at your disposal and not use it to call the police or reception to call the police immediately Kate claims she found Madeleine missing. Oh no BIG DRAMA ensued.
She leaves the twins- runs over to the tapas group, who most all go to search the apartment - after Kate did that- and then someone thought it might be a good idea to phone the police. meanwhile- they appear to be discussing what MBM was wearing and an abductor was suggested and well it just took off from there.
-
I will be monitoring these boards closely over the next few days to ensure that our rules are fully complied with.
Admin
Any chance these off topic rants can be removed from the questions for the PJ thread- thank you:
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2019, 11:38:40 AM » to #24
-
She was quick to get help from her friends but not the police. How strange! You think she would be screaming for them to be here NOW! Not an hour later.
It took Sara Payne nearly two hours before she called the police when Sarah disappeared. HOW STRANGE!!! Not. The McCanns believed the police had been summoned in much less than an hour after Madeleine's disappearance so what is your point?
-
Kate has repeatedly said that she knew Madeleine was abducted straight away on entering that bedroom so why didn't she call the police in an emergency? You call the police and do it! It's your child! It is a question she needs to answer because her words and actions don't add up!
Not calling the police and not answering their questions:
26. Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?
-
Kate has repeatedly said that she knew Madeleine was abducted straight away on entering that bedroom so why didn't she call the police in an emergency? You call the police and do it! It's your child! It is a question she needs to answer because her words and actions don't add up!
Not calling the police and not answering their questions:
26. Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?
Because, like any other human, the rational part of her brain would be saying: "let's not jump to hasty conclusions and conduct a proper search of the immediate area before alerting the police and possibly wasting their time". No doubt even if this was not what the rational part of her brain was saying, it is likely what the rest of her group was telling her. Try and be reasonable FGS.
-
Hi Pathfinder. What do you mean when you say you could go through the door in the gap? Do you think the patio door shutters were not down then? I wonder what the line of sight was like to there from the Tapas?
The patio doors did not have shutters that was the bedroom window shutters being discussed as a means of entry and exit for alleged abductor.
The line of sight from the tapas to the apartment was obscured by shrubs and bushes, only the top of the apartments roof was visible.
-
(&^&
Some people speak on behalf of all other humans??
OMG
This was a doctor used to dealing with emergencies! Stood in front of cameras and forgave a suspected paedophile for abducting their daughter. WHAT??! How many humans would do that?
-
Because, like any other human, the rational part of her brain would be saying: "let's not jump to hasty conclusions and conduct a proper search of the immediate area before alerting the police and possibly wasting their time". No doubt even if this was not what the rational part of her brain was saying, it is likely what the rest of her group was telling her. Try and be reasonable FGS.
She was 100% certain she was abducted. Gates/doors closed and just an open window. Cuddle Cat still on bed. She said she knew Madeleine couldn't do it so what are you going on about? As far as she was concerned there wasn't another explanation! Time to call the police as a normal person would think and more importantly ACT!
-
She was 100% certain she was abducted. Gates/doors closed and just an open window. Cuddle Cat still on bed. She said she knew Madeleine couldn't do it so what are you going on about? As far as she was concerned there wasn't another explanation! Time to call the police as a normal person would think and more importantly ACT!
It's all been explained before
-
Not from her as she refused to answer the police questions about the crime scene! No wonder the PJ stay in the background and let SY deal with them.
-
She was 100% certain she was abducted. Gates/doors closed and just an open window. Cuddle Cat still on bed. She said she knew Madeleine couldn't do it so what are you going on about? As far as she was concerned there wasn't another explanation! Time to call the police as a normal person would think and more importantly ACT!
Right, so you're refusing to be reasonable. Nothing much more to be said then is there?
-
Right, so you're refusing to be reasonable. Nothing much more to be said then is there?
There's a rational explanation to all the sceptic claims but you have to be rational to understand it..
-
Why would someone who had deliberately staged a criminal abduction then decide to stall calling the police? To what end, exactly? If you wanted it to look convincing wouldn't you scream abduction and insist the police were called immediately without even considering looking for the child who anybody else might rationally assume had just wandered off somewhere?
-
Not from her as she refused to answer the police questions about the crime scene! No wonder the PJ stay in the background and let SY deal with them.
I would wonder if SY are dealing with it in any productive way.
-
There's a rational explanation to all the sceptic claims but you have to be rational to understand it..
Pathfinder must find it bloody weird that Kate even bothered to check the apartment for Madeleine before running out to alert the others, when she was 100% certain that MAdeleine had been abducted. I mean you just wouldn't would you? You'd see the empty bed and you'd reach for your mobile that second wouldnt you? That would be the right and proper way to react wouldn't it? Duh.
-
I don't think Amaral had much option but to agree with something which according to him was already a fait accompli by the time he was told about it.
So when did this crack outfit leave Lisbon and put feet on the ground in Luz how long did they stay there? Any ideas about which of the theories doing the rounds do you think they might have contribute to?
Strange, don't you think, considering he has been seen by some as 'the man in charge'?
You don't seem impressed by the DCCB, so could you give us an example of the type of 'properly trained investigators' who would meet your standards?
-
Pathfinder explained very well.
KATE KNEW RIGHT AWAY her daughter was 'abducted', but let people think she was just missing? Why would she check the flat , then go and get others to check the flat if she KNEW right away.
Her knowledge arose from the famous, door slamming- open window- curtains whooshing- shutters jemmied!scenario. allegedly.
Duh.
-
Pathfinder must find it bloody weird that Kate even bothered to check the apartment for Madeleine before running out to alert the others, when she was 100% certain that MAdeleine had been abducted. I mean you just wouldn't would you? You'd see the empty bed and you'd reach for your mobile that second wouldnt you? That would be the right and proper way to react wouldn't it? Duh.
So if someone says they did something you accept that as a fact? Or do you only believe selected people?
-
So if someone says they did something you accept that as a fact? Or do you only believe selected people?
Some of us here on the forum know the answer to that question @)(++(*
It is a bit like vegans saying they hate cruelty to animals- but wear leather shoes, wear makeup with animal derivatives and eat vegetables which have millions of small creatures killed.
Say some thing-don't mean it!
-
Pathfinder must find it bloody weird that Kate even bothered to check the apartment for Madeleine before running out to alert the others, when she was 100% certain that MAdeleine had been abducted. I mean you just wouldn't would you? You'd see the empty bed and you'd reach for your mobile that second wouldnt you? That would be the right and proper way to react wouldn't it? Duh.
Did she check the apartment?
We only have her word for it.
-
Why would someone who had deliberately staged a criminal abduction then decide to stall calling the police? To what end, exactly? If you wanted it to look convincing wouldn't you scream abduction and insist the police were called immediately without even considering looking for the child who anybody else might rationally assume had just wandered off somewhere?
Isn't it obvious. It is to me. She needed to allow time for Gerry to go off searching on his own.
-
She was 100% certain she was abducted. Gates/doors closed and just an open window. Cuddle Cat still on bed. She said she knew Madeleine couldn't do it so what are you going on about? As far as she was concerned there wasn't another explanation! Time to call the police as a normal person would think and more importantly ACT!
She acted alright! imo
-
Did she check the apartment?
We only have her word for it.
Hmm and from their xmas message to their fans/supporters- nothing was said about how this search is continuing?
"The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment".
It is as if it is just words on a piece of paper? IMO
-
Hmm and from their xmas message to their fans/supporters- nothing was said about how this search is continuing?
"The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment".
It is as if it is just words on a piece of paper? IMO
Maybe they're referring to Operation Grange 8(0(*
-
So if someone says they did something you accept that as a fact? Or do you only believe selected people?
You make a judgement based on what you know about the person ...Amaral has lied in court for instance
-
Interesting. Supporters don't normally have much faith in Portuguese Court decisions
-
You make a judgement based on what you know about the person ...Amaral has lied in court for instance
and for another instance... Kate and Gerry have Never lied? what not ever? wow I love em two troofool peeple @)(++(*
-
Interesting. Supporters don't normally have much faith in Portuguese Court decisions
They can pick and chose. 8)--)) the courts can be fickle though- one minute the charge him with telling lies the next thing they support him for telling even bigger lies according to the Supporters.
-
and for another instance... Kate and Gerry have Never lied? what not ever? wow I love em two troofool peeple @)(++(*
I think we've all told little white lies but we haven't all committed perjury
-
Say what you like about Amaral, at least we can be sure he didn't do away with his daughter.
-
Interesting. Supporters don't normally have much faith in Portuguese Court decisions
You are quite wrong... I go by the evidence
-
So if someone says they did something you accept that as a fact? Or do you only believe selected people?
Pathfinder claims to believe Kate said she was 100% certain Madeleine was abducted so my comment was addressing that particular scenario.
-
Strange, don't you think, considering he has been seen by some as 'the man in charge'?
You don't seem impressed by the DCCB, so could you give us an example of the type of 'properly trained investigators' who would meet your standards?
I don't think you've quite got the hang of this debating thing.
Debater (i) asks a question.
Debater (ii) answers and asks a question in return ... and so it goes on.
I've asked you at least two questions without having received a response from you ... so when you do feel like responding I may decide to do so too.
-
You make a judgement based on what you know about the person ...Amaral has lied in court for instance
It's all a matter of opinion then? I can think of many people who have been able to fool others into believing them, but have been found out eventually.
-
It's all a matter of opinion then? I can think of many people who have been able to fool others into believing them, but have been found out eventually.
As Ive pointed out to you many times...its a matter of opinion based on the evidence. I think people have been fooled into believing amarals theory...based on not understanding the evidence...that goes for the initial pj investigation
-
I think we've all told little white lies but we haven't all committed perjury
I have. Perjured, lied, cheated, stole; on the same day. Good day.
Woke up in a hedge in Keith Chegwin's (rip) back garden. True story.
-
I have. Perjured, lied, cheated, stole; on the same day. Good day.
Woke up in a hedge in Keith Chegwin's (rip) back garden. True story.
you say its true but admit to being quite dishonest....so the evidence doesnt support your honesty
-
I don't think you've quite got the hang of this debating thing.
Debater (i) asks a question.
Debater (ii) answers and asks a question in return ... and so it goes on.
I've asked you at least two questions without having received a response from you ... so when you do feel like responding I may decide to do so too.
OK, let's do this.
I'm still trying to get an answer to the first question I asked (before you asked any at all);
snip/
Were you expecting all these 'properly trained people' to arrive on the night of 3rd? How?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567195#msg567195
You did indeed respond with a question of your own;
snip/
What do you know about a dedicated child protection unit based in Porto?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567196#msg567196
Answer; nothing and I never claimed I did.
You then asked;
snip/
So when did this crack outfit leave Lisbon and put feet on the ground in Luz how long did they stay there? Any ideas about which of the theories doing the rounds do you think they might have contribute to?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567201#msg567201
Answer; I don't know and I never claimed I did.
I then repeated my question;
snip/
You don't seem impressed by the DCCB, so could you give us an example of the type of 'properly trained investigators' who would meet your standards?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567236#msg567236
I assumed, as you raised the subject of 'properly trained investigators' and compared the PJ unfavourably to them you would be able to explain who you had in mind. Do you have anything to say which would identify these paragons or not? Otherwise nobody knows what you mean by the phrase.
-
you say its true but admit to being quite dishonest....so the evidence doesnt support your honesty
I trust him to babysit my kids, more than I would the McCanns.
-
As Ive pointed out to you many times...its a matter of opinion based on the evidence. I think people have been fooled into believing amarals theory...based on not understanding the evidence...that goes for the initial pj investigation
In my opinion it's a matter of opinion based on flatly refusing to acknowledge that there is evidence.
-
OK, let's do this.
I'm still trying to get an answer to the first question I asked (before you asked any at all);
snip/
Were you expecting all these 'properly trained people' to arrive on the night of 3rd? How?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567195#msg567195
You did indeed respond with a question of your own;
snip/
What do you know about a dedicated child protection unit based in Porto?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567196#msg567196
Answer; nothing and I never claimed I did.
You then asked;
snip/
So when did this crack outfit leave Lisbon and put feet on the ground in Luz how long did they stay there? Any ideas about which of the theories doing the rounds do you think they might have contribute to?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567201#msg567201
Answer; I don't know and I never claimed I did.
I then repeated my question;
snip/
You don't seem impressed by the DCCB, so could you give us an example of the type of 'properly trained investigators' who would meet your standards?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567236#msg567236
I assumed, as you raised the subject of 'properly trained investigators' and compared the PJ unfavourably to them you would be able to explain who you had in mind. Do you have anything to say which would identify these paragons or not? Otherwise nobody knows what you mean by the phrase.
Reminiscent of Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Roberto Durán II - no mas! no mas!
This bout is OVER!
-
In my opinion it's a matter of opinion based on flatly refusing to acknowledge that there is evidence.
its called denial @)(++(*
-
In my opinion it's a matter of opinion based on flatly refusing to acknowledge that there is evidence.
of course theres evidence........but imo...confirmed by your refusal to accept that smoking causes cancer...you refuse to accept evidnce if it goes against your mindset
-
its called denial @)(++(*
It wasn't the McCanns fault; they were distraught, confused, misunderstood, picked on and blameless. We know it's true because Kate McCann wrote a book about it. It was Tweedledum and Tweedledee, the interpreters, the PJ (the f***ing t****rs) and the newspapers who made them look bad.
-
It wasn't the McCanns fault; they were distraught, confused, misunderstood, picked on and blameless. We know it's true because Kate McCann wrote a book about it. It was Tweedledum and Tweedledee, the interpreters, the PJ (the f***ing t****rs) and the newspapers who made them look bad.
A very poor post imo.
-
Del
-
OK, let's do this.
I'm still trying to get an answer to the first question I asked (before you asked any at all);
snip/
Were you expecting all these 'properly trained people' to arrive on the night of 3rd? How?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567195#msg567195
You did indeed respond with a question of your own;
snip/
What do you know about a dedicated child protection unit based in Porto?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567196#msg567196
Answer; nothing and I never claimed I did.
You then asked;
snip/
So when did this crack outfit leave Lisbon and put feet on the ground in Luz how long did they stay there? Any ideas about which of the theories doing the rounds do you think they might have contribute to?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567201#msg567201
Answer; I don't know and I never claimed I did.
I then repeated my question;
snip/
You don't seem impressed by the DCCB, so could you give us an example of the type of 'properly trained investigators' who would meet your standards?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567236#msg567236
I assumed, as you raised the subject of 'properly trained investigators' and compared the PJ unfavourably to them you would be able to explain who you had in mind. Do you have anything to say which would identify these paragons or not? Otherwise nobody knows what you mean by the phrase.
Let us fast forward to 2017 to a time when the lessons of 2007 have been learned in Portugal and to when a seven year old British boy ran ahead of his parents on a rocky path in broad daylight and vanished.
They searched for over an hour for him before contacting the police at 12:30pm who immediately …- Sounded an all-ports alert
- Began to set up road blocks
- Started to make door to door enquiries
- Alerted the maritime police to request searches of the beach area
- Alerted border police who instituted the establishment of a security perimeter
- Called in a specialist team from Lisbon which was cancelled along with other measures in the process of being implemented when the boy was taken to the police in Lagos around 1pm.
That missing child procedure was brought into action immediately the child's disappearance was reported to the police and is exactly the excellent response which any missing child deserves.
Madeleine McCann did not benefit from anything approaching that level of expertise.
NB
Last night authorities confirmed police would be reporting the episode to prosecutors so they could decide whether to take further action.
An insider said: 'It is highly unlikely this will go any further but the GNR is obliged to act in this way.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4736208/British-boy-goes-missing-Praia-da-Luz.html
-
The patio doors did not have shutters that was the bedroom window shutters being discussed as a means of entry and exit for alleged abductor.
The line of sight from the tapas to the apartment was obscured by shrubs and bushes, only the top of the apartments roof was visible.
Rubbish.
Soon after the shubs had been cut back as on May 3rd 2007, I was there eating at the Tapas Restaurant, ... and I clearly saw most of the patio windows to the sitting room.
I can see from various photos / Google Earth images that there was, however, a tall shrub in front of the patio windows to the parents bedroom.
Shrubs grow extremely quickly on the Algarve. On a day when they were grown and ready for prunning the sight of the patio windows would be more restricted.
However the shrubs had JUST be pruned by May 5th and the sight of the patio windows would heve been good as when we saw them
Please stop spreading disinformation Mistaken
-
It wasn't the McCanns fault; they were distraught, confused, misunderstood, picked on and blameless. We know it's true because Kate McCann wrote a book about it. It was Tweedledum and Tweedledee, the interpreters, the PJ (the f***ing t****rs) and the newspapers who made them look bad.
...And especially a vociferous and malicious group like some on here. Always running them down and spreading disinformation.
I wonder why ?
-
Let us fast forward to 2017 to a time when the lessons of 2007 have been learned in Portugal and to when a seven year old British boy ran ahead of his parents on a rocky path in broad daylight and vanished.
They searched for over an hour for him before contacting the police at 12:30pm who immediately …- Sounded an all-ports alert
- Began to set up road blocks
- Started to make door to door enquiries
- Alerted the maritime police to request searches of the beach area
- Alerted border police who instituted the establishment of a security perimeter
- Called in a specialist team from Lisbon which was cancelled along with other measures in the process of being implemented when the boy was taken to the police in Lagos around 1pm.
That missing child procedure was brought into action immediately the child's disappearance was reported to the police and is exactly the excellent response which any missing child deserves.
Madeleine McCann did not benefit from anything approaching that level of expertise.
NB
Last night authorities confirmed police would be reporting the episode to prosecutors so they could decide whether to take further action.
An insider said: 'It is highly unlikely this will go any further but the GNR is obliged to act in this way.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4736208/British-boy-goes-missing-Praia-da-Luz.html
So the GNR are the 'properly trained investigators' you think the PJ could learn from? In 2007 it wasn't in their job description to liaise with those other authorities, it was the PJ who did that. Were they involved in this case?
-
Rubbish.
Soon after the shubs had been cut back as on May 3rd 2007, I was there eating at the Tapas Restaurant, ... and I clearly saw most of the patio windows to the sitting room.
I can see from various photos / Google Earth images that there was, however, a tall shrub in front of the patio windows to the parents bedroom.
Shrubs grow extremely quickly on the Algarve. On a day when they were grown and ready for prunning the sight of the patio windows would be more restricted.
However the shrubs had JUST be pruned by May 5th and the sight of the patio windows would heve been good as when we saw them
Please stop spreading disinformation Mistaken
Easy to obscure an exit from there then.
-
So the GNR are the 'properly trained investigators' you think the PJ could learn from? In 2007 it wasn't in their job description to liaise with those other authorities, it was the PJ who did that. Were they involved in this case?
It appears that the Portuguese State had no procedures or protocols in place in 2007 for safeguarding missing children.
If there were any they most certainly were not put in place when Madeleine McCann went missing from her holiday bedroom.
The fact is that in 2017 immediately the Portuguese police received a missing child alert efficient and well rehearsed contingency plans were deployed for the safeguarding of that child in absolute contrast to what happened when Madeleine McCann was reported missing in 2007.
It seems the deficiencies apparent in 2007 which you appear to be defending were taken on board by those in authority in Portugal and rectified.
Unless it is your contention the protocols we have recently seen being used were actually in place in 2007 and could have been used by those tasked with locating Madeleine but for some reason were not?
-
Easy to obscure an exit from there then.
Why do you think no forensic tests were ordered or carried out in that location by the investigators? An oversight. perhaps?
-
Rubbish.
Soon after the shubs had been cut back as on May 3rd 2007, I was there eating at the Tapas Restaurant, ... and I clearly saw most of the patio windows to the sitting room.
I can see from various photos / Google Earth images that there was, however, a tall shrub in front of the patio windows to the parents bedroom.
Shrubs grow extremely quickly on the Algarve. On a day when they were grown and ready for prunning the sight of the patio windows would be more restricted.
However the shrubs had JUST be pruned by May 5th and the sight of the patio windows would heve been good as when we saw them
Please stop spreading disinformation Mistaken
Despite repeated requests you have never explained your source for the bolded information. You also seem determined to ignore the evidence given by Rachael Oldfield, who was present on 3rd May and said she could only see the top of the windows.
-
Despite repeated requests you have never explained your source for the bolded information. You also seem determined to ignore the evidence given by Rachael Oldfield, who was present on 3rd May and said she could only see the top of the windows.
Is Rachel short?
-
Despite repeated requests you have never explained your source for the bolded information. You also seem determined to ignore the evidence given by Rachael Oldfield, who was present on 3rd May and said she could only see the top of the windows.
Pretty sure those 'tall shrubs' are palm trees - which don't need pruning.
The 8ft sun shades that adorn the pool also don't require pruning.
-
Is Rachel short?
Why?
-
Why?
Because her head wouldn't be so high.
-
Because her head wouldn't be so high.
Compared with what ?
-
Compared with what ?
Line of Vision.
-
Line of Vision.
How do you know the line of vision of anyone at the table that night ?
-
How do you know the line of vision of anyone at the table that night ?
The shorter they are then the lower it would be.
-
The shorter they are then the lower it would be.
Yes, but that doesn't demonstrate what they could or could not see.
-
Yes, but that doesn't demonstrate what they could or could not see.
Some would see more and some would see less. Which is why I asked if Rachel is short.
-
The shorter they are then the lower it would be.
That's not so. Standing height and sitting height aren't necessarily related. It depends on the length of the torso and of the legs. Someone with a long torso and short legs would be equal in height sitting down to someone with a long torso and long legs, but shorter when standing.
Also, Matthew agreed with Rachael, and he's not short.
-
That's not so. Standing height and sitting height aren't necessarily related. It depends on the length of the torso and of the legs. Someone with a long torso and short legs would be equal in height sitting down to someone with a long torso and long legs, but shorter when standing.
Also, Matthew agreed with Rachael, and he's not short.
Has Matthew got a short torso?
-
Why do you think no forensic tests were ordered or carried out in that location by the investigators? An oversight. perhaps?
But they were as pointed out earlier by pathfinder.
Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
-
That's not so. Standing height and sitting height aren't necessarily related. It depends on the length of the torso and of the legs. Someone with a long torso and short legs would be equal in height sitting down to someone with a long torso and long legs, but shorter when standing.
Also, Matthew agreed with Rachael, and he's not short.
This difference in viewpoint / perspective would be totally negated if the viewer was sat with their back to the target.
-
This difference in viewpoint / perspective would be totally negated if the viewer was sat with their back to the target.
Unless they turned around to have a look.
-
But they were as pointed out earlier by pathfinder.
Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
PF was discussing the master bedroom window if memory serves me well; where apparently no forensics were carried out.
-
Unless they turned around to have a look.
If they could be bothered.
-
If they could be bothered.
I don't know about that. Do you?
-
But they were as pointed out earlier by pathfinder.
Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
Appears there were a lot of inadequate prints found but at the end of the day only fingerprints belonging to Kate McCann and one GNR officer were found on the children's bedroom window and the main patio door respectively.
-
PF was discussing the master bedroom window if memory serves me well; where apparently no forensics were carried out.
Nope he was clearly on about the other patio door.
You have a problem - a key was required to enter the front way. The unlocked patio side was the most probable entry and that side is where Eddie alerted. He was very interested in the area outside the parent's bedroom door and not interested in the main patio door. That is a clue along with his parent's bedroom alert and it was not missed by me!
Another clue!
Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
-
Appears there were a lot of inadequate prints found but at the end of the day only fingerprints belonging to Kate McCann and one GNR officer were found on the children's bedroom window and the main patio door respectively.
Yes,its almost like a stranger never entered 5a the night of the 3/05/2007.
-
Yes,its almost like a stranger never entered 5a the night of the 3/05/2007.
I have always had a problem with the suggestion that any stranger would want to take the risk of going into 5a given the number of people both locals and tourists who were wandering around that night, not to mention those staying directly above the apartment.
-
PF was discussing the master bedroom window if memory serves me well; where apparently no forensics were carried out.
Let's get this straight. There are 2 patio doors in apartment 5A.
1. The main patio door
2. The parent's bedroom patio door
There are no other patio doors! The other patio door has to be the parent's bedroom patio door.
Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
It would be quicker and safer to use that way as my theory explains. My theory is always backed up with EVIDENCE so it is not really a theory but the most probable truth!
Was the elastic hair band found a match with Madeleine? Eddie was very interested in that patio area and the big bush outside the parent's bedroom. Leads like this should be answered! The devil is in the detail!
One envelope containing one (01) elastic band made of synthetic material, used to tie hair.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/08/article-0-00B4454B000004B0-599_468x535.jpg)
-
Let's get this straight. There are 2 patio doors in apartment 5A.
1. The main patio door
2. The parent's bedroom patio door
There are no other patio doors! The other patio door has to be the parent's bedroom patio door.
Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
It would be quicker and safer to use that way as my theory explains. My theory is always backed up with EVIDENCE so it is not really a theory but the most probable truth!
Was the elastic hair band found a match with Madeleine? Eddie was very interested in that patio area and the big bush outside the parent's bedroom. Leads like this should be answered! The devil is in the detail!
One envelope containing one (01) elastic band made of synthetic material, used to tie hair.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/08/article-0-00B4454B000004B0-599_468x535.jpg)
If you care to check the cite you have provided you will find it actually says ...
Snip
- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
-
If you care to check the cite you have provided you will find it actually says ...
Snip
- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
The other patio door being?
-
The other patio door being?
Snip
- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
Yes it's ambiguous and as clear as mud is it not. How do you interpret it?
-
I have always had a problem with the suggestion that any stranger would want to take the risk of going into 5a given the number of people both locals and tourists who were wandering around that night, not to mention those staying directly above the apartment.
It didn’t stop someone trying to break into THAT apartment, how do you account for it what with all the locals and tourists and residents about?
-
Snip
- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
Yes it's ambiguous and as clear as mud is it not. How do you interpret it?
2 patio doors and 2 keys for them. Living room patio door and bedroom patio door. Tell me where the 3rd patio door is?
-
2 patio doors and 2 keys for them. Living room patio door and bedroom patio door. Tell me where the 3rd patio door is?
Snip
- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm
I have no idea of what you are trying to say. I see nothing about keys in the files.
-
A door is to enter the apartment. There were 2 patio doors. One to enter the living room and the other door to enter the bedroom.
Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
-
A door is to enter the apartment. There were 2 patio doors. One to enter the living room and the other door to enter the bedroom.
Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
Oh ... I see ... you think the abductor used the bedroom window.
I believe Sadie mentioned that might have happened during discussion of her theory http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1327.msg37641#msg37641 the difference between your theory and hers is that she libels no-one when discussing it.
-
Smithman the abductor used the bedroom patio door to remove Madeleine in my theory. It was hidden by bushes and Eddie was interested in that area.
"However she left that apartment, she's been abducted." Mark Rowley
-
Smithman the abductor used the bedroom patio door to remove Madeleine in my theory. It was hidden by bushes and Eddie was interested in that area.
"However she left that apartment, she's been abducted." Mark Rowley
To me, this is plausible. What do you make of Amaral’s latest statement that the person of interest is someone, looking similar to Madeleine’s father but who in fact is not Gerry McCann?
-
To me, this is plausible. What do you make of Amaral’s latest statement that the person of interest is someone, looking similar to Madeleine’s father but who in fact is not Gerry McCann?
Smithman is most certainly very much a person of interest who looks like Gerry McCann, there's no getting away from this.
Madeleine was most probably abducted imo but not from the bedroom.
-
Easy to obscure an exit from there then.
E.T.A.
Please note that I made a bit of a 'pigs ear of this post orininally. Hopefully much clearer now.
More likely thru the parents bedroom patio door, which was largely obscured by a bush, rather than thru the sitting room patio door ... cos the later line of vision was not significantly obscured, so visible to eaters at the Tapas restaurant. But someone still had to climb/ descend steps that altho partly in darkness, and went into the glow of the street lamp immediately opposite, at the bottom and at the top.
The Front door is way most likely method of entry, due to its really dark entrance/ porchway.
Also the scent trails picked up by the dogs.
Also Jane Tanners sighting.
Of course it needed some way for getting the key, but that has already been done to death on here several times before.
I sometimes wonder if a person protecting an OC / MW staff member is influencing other sceptics on here to push the patio door angle ? Cos I cannot understand why the Front door is pointedly being ignored by all sceptics on here, when it is so obviously the most likely point of entry/ departure.
It also could be someone, a sceptic, connected to an abduction, who is inflencing the other sceptics. This person just wants to muddy the waters and make it more difficult for the investigating police .... Maybe?
-
Despite repeated requests you have never explained your source for the bolded information. You also seem determined to ignore the evidence given by Rachael Oldfield, who was present on 3rd May and said she could only see the top of the windows.
I HAVE Given a cite.
You just have a bad memory it seems.
I ain't searching again; it's been done before
-
Is Rachel short?
Yep.
(https://media3.picsearch.com/is?hvajKqvJv6eXZLyq0xgOLfWIXoYfPGRFxZQBpCMkWuY&height=135)
From photos, I thnk she could be described as petite.
It is difficult to be sure from this particular photograph, but it appears that her legs are longer than average.
Sorry this is such a small image and that I haven't sorted out the photo which really shows how petite she and Fiona are
-
I have always had a problem with the suggestion that any stranger would want to take the risk of going into 5a given the number of people both locals and tourists who were wandering around that night, not to mention those staying directly above the apartment.
It was very very quiet in the evening, when we were there (June/July time). Almost no-one around.
-
And when Rachel said that she could only see the top of the window, was she referring to 5A or their own flat?
She would certainly have checked the visability to her own flat.
Anyone know ?
-
Yep.
(https://media3.picsearch.com/is?hvajKqvJv6eXZLyq0xgOLfWIXoYfPGRFxZQBpCMkWuY&height=135)
From photos, I thnk she could be described as petite.
It is difficult to be sure from this particular photograph, but it appears that her legs are longer than average.
Sorry this is such a small image and that I haven't sorted out the photo which really shows how petite she and Fiona are
Petite, yes... but how on earth can you tell her legs are longer than average under all that clothing?!
-
I HAVE Given a cite.
You just have a bad memory it seems.
I ain't searching again; it's been done before
Well I can provide a cite by someone who was there at the time. If you wish to contradict her you need evidence, not hearsay imo;
1578 'And from where you were sat, what was your view like of the apartments''
Reply 'Erm well yeah I could see, I mean I could see the patio doors of ours and Gerry and Kates'.
1578 'How much of the patio doors''
Reply 'Erm well kind of the top half really'.
1578 'Okay'.
Reply "Yeah you know, I didn't get a full you know, you couldn't get a full view sort of right in, cos there were bushes, there were bushes and stuff there, erm'.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
-
More likely than thru the patio door cos that was not obscured by a bush, but someone still had to climb/ descend steps that altho partly in darkness, went into the glow of the street lamp immediately opposite at the bottom and at the top.
The Front door is way most likely method of entry, due to its really dark entrance/ porchway.
Also the scent trails picked up by the dogs.
Also Jane Tanners sighting.
Of course it needed some way for getting the key, but that has already been done to death on here several times before.
I sometimes wonder if a person protecting an OC / MW staff member is influencing other sceptics on here to push the patio door angle ? Cos I cannot understand why the Front door is pointedly being ignored by all sceptics on here, when it is so obviously the most likely point of entry/ departure.
It also could be someone, a sceptic, connected to an abduction, who is inflencing the other sceptics. This person just wants to muddy the waters and make it more difficult for the investigating police .... Maybe?
Only if you want it to be,even SY nor the PJ have come up with the exit point,all are open to opinion,nothing more nothing less.
-
Smithman is most certainly very much a person of interest who looks like Gerry McCann, there's no getting away from this.
Madeleine was most probably abducted imo but not from the bedroom.
Redwood:A description very close to that of Madeleine McCann" being carried by smithman.
-
We're discussing the length of Rachel Oldfield's legs now?
It may be head wobble time.
-
Redwood:A description very close to that of Madeleine McCann" being carried by smithman.
The description is certainly more convincing than a pair of legs and feet;
He states that the child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. She was a child of normal build, about a metre in height though not being absolutely certain of that as she was being carried. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit.
the child was female because she had straight long hair to the neck. The colour was fair/light brown.
— She is certain that the child was about four years old because her niece (who was in the group) is of the same age and they were the same size.
He states the child was female. She was perhaps two or three years old, in that she appeared to him to be a bit smaller than his niece of the same age. She was a child of normal build. She had blonde hair, of medium shade, not very light. Her skin was white, typically British.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
-
More likely than thru the patio door cos that was not obscured by a bush, but someone still had to climb/ descend steps that altho partly in darkness, went into the glow of the street lamp immediately opposite at the bottom and at the top.
The Front door is way most likely method of entry, due to its really dark entrance/ porchway.
Also the scent trails picked up by the dogs.
Also Jane Tanners sighting.
Of course it needed some way for getting the key, but that has already been done to death on here several times before.
I sometimes wonder if a person protecting an OC / MW staff member is influencing other sceptics on here to push the patio door angle ? Cos I cannot understand why the Front door is pointedly being ignored by all sceptics on here, when it is so obviously the most likely point of entry/ departure.
It also could be someone, a sceptic, connected to an abduction, who is inflencing the other sceptics. This person just wants to muddy the waters and make it more difficult for the investigating police .... Maybe?
I follow evidence not what SY may or not be doing. You descend the steps to reach the garden where Eddie alerted. There are two possible exits from the garden. By using the gate which brings you onto the main street near to the tapas entrance where you could be easily spotted (so not so good!) or you can go straight over the small wall without being seen (The Oldfields were at the tapas table at the time Madeleine was removed). I believe the small wall exit was used by Smithman. Nobody used the dark alley way at night so to Smithman it was a safer route to use. Madeleine was removed the patio way in my theory.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article334158.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2CD25BE0-D5BB-8BDC-646EA3C92CAB0088.jpg)
-
I follow evidence not what SY may or not be doing. You descend the steps to reach the garden where Eddie alerted. There are two possible exits from the garden. By using the gate which brings you onto the main street near to the tapas entrance where you could be easily spotted (so not so good!) or you can go straight over the small wall without being seen (The Oldfields were at the tapas table at the time Madeleine was removed). I believe the small wall exit was used by Smithman. Nobody used the dark alley way at night so to Smithman it was a safer route to use. Madeleine was removed the patio way in my theory.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article334158.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2CD25BE0-D5BB-8BDC-646EA3C92CAB0088.jpg)
The GNR dogs showed not the slightest interest in the patio or either patio door; they showed not the slightest bit of interest in the steps leading into the garden where yet again they showed no interest; nor did the dogs show the slightest interest at the garden gate or anywhere near it.
How does that fit in with your theory?
-
I follow evidence not what SY may or not be doing. You descend the steps to reach the garden where Eddie alerted. There are two possible exits from the garden. By using the gate which brings you onto the main street near to the tapas entrance where you could be easily spotted (so not so good!) or you can go straight over the small wall without being seen (The Oldfields were at the tapas table at the time Madeleine was removed). I believe the small wall exit was used by Smithman. Nobody used the dark alley way at night so to Smithman it was a safer route to use. Madeleine was removed the patio way in my theory.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article334158.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2CD25BE0-D5BB-8BDC-646EA3C92CAB0088.jpg)
Over the wall where I've added the orange blob?
(http://)
-
Over the wall where I've added the orange blob?
??? How did they arrive there ??? Levitate ???
-
The GNR dogs showed not the slightest interest in the patio or either patio door; they showed not the slightest bit of interest in the steps leading into the garden where yet again they showed no interest; nor did the dogs show the slightest interest at the garden gate or anywhere near it.
How does that fit in with your theory?
Were they asked to sniff those areas? As far as I can ascertain they were used at the front of the block by the front door, not at the back, in the garden or near the 5A gate.
-
Were they asked to sniff those areas? As far as I can ascertain they were used at the front of the block by the front door, not at the back, in the garden or near the 5A gate.
Look over there not here.
-
Were they asked to sniff those areas? As far as I can ascertain they were used at the front of the block by the front door, not at the back, in the garden or near the 5A gate.
I would imagine they would have asked the parents which way Madeleine last left the apartment (apart from the last last way).
-
Were they asked to sniff those areas? As far as I can ascertain they were used at the front of the block by the front door, not at the back, in the garden or near the 5A gate.
As far as I know most searches started at the apartment spreading out from there and the GNR dogs were given free rein by their handlers to follow their noses.
Also conducted was ~ "a discontinuous search, in other words, to sniff the girl's clothes and immediately search near to the apartments, checking to see if there was any change in the behaviour of the dogs." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm The only apartment which excited any interest in the dogs was apartment 5J.
-
As far as I know most searches started at the apartment spreading out from there and the GNR dogs were given free rein by their handlers to follow their noses.
Also conducted was ~ "a discontinuous search, in other words, to sniff the girl's clothes and immediately search near to the apartments, checking to see if there was any change in the behaviour of the dogs." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm The only apartment which excited any interest in the dogs was apartment 5J.
OMG the freezer!
-
As far as I know most searches started at the apartment spreading out from there and the GNR dogs were given free rein by their handlers to follow their noses.
Also conducted was ~ "a discontinuous search, in other words, to sniff the girl's clothes and immediately search near to the apartments, checking to see if there was any change in the behaviour of the dogs." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm The only apartment which excited any interest in the dogs was apartment 5J.
Not even 5a?
-
OMG the freezer!
”Sometimes when you have nothing sensible to say it is better to say nothing at all” - Confucius.
-
Not even 5a?
The only apartment in which the GNR dogs showed any interest was 5L. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm
-
Please note that I will be posting this message intermittently as a warning to those members who would flaunt the forum rules.
All posters should be aware of the rules which can be found at the top of the home/index page. More specifically, members are expected to show respect and tolerance towards other users and above all refrain from posting insults or goading comments. Derogatory comments aimed at any member will be removed and a warning issued. Persistent flaunting of the rules will attract sanctions should they continue after a warning has been issued.
Members are free to express their opinion on any topic subject to the forum rules.
Admin
-
Not even 5a?
The only apartment in which the GNR dogs showed any interest was 5L. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm
It was rhetorical given Madeleine stayed in 5a.
-
I follow evidence not what SY may or not be doing. You descend the steps to reach the garden where Eddie alerted. There are two possible exits from the garden. By using the gate which brings you onto the main street near to the tapas entrance where you could be easily spotted (so not so good!) or you can go straight over the small wall without being seen (The Oldfields were at the tapas table at the time Madeleine was removed). I believe the small wall exit was used by Smithman. Nobody used the dark alley way at night so to Smithman it was a safer route to use. Madeleine was removed the patio way in my theory.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article334158.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2CD25BE0-D5BB-8BDC-646EA3C92CAB0088.jpg)
Not very likely given in my opinion given that Mrs Fenn and others had a perfect view of the gardens below.
-
The only apartment in which the GNR dogs showed any interest was 5L. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm
6. At 00.40, given the complexity of the situation that seemed to surround the disappearance, the GNR post commander requested reinforcements from two sniffer dog teams from the Portimao territorial group to help in the searches, considering the possibility that the girl could have left the apartment on foot and could be somewhere not very far from the OC resort.
Smithy carried her out the other way,no wonder nowt was found.imo and all that jazz.
-
Not very likely given in my opinion given that Mrs Fenn and others had a perfect view of the gardens below.
Only if you are looking out at that time.
-
As far as I know most searches started at the apartment spreading out from there and the GNR dogs were given free rein by their handlers to follow their noses.
Also conducted was ~ "a discontinuous search, in other words, to sniff the girl's clothes and immediately search near to the apartments, checking to see if there was any change in the behaviour of the dogs." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm The only apartment which excited any interest in the dogs was apartment 5J.
The first dogs were from Portimao and this is what they did;
"They began searching with the dogs from the main entrance to the apartment, having given the blanket to his dog Numi to smell and begin to search".
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLOS-LACAO.htm
The next dogs were from Queluz and this is what they did;
"That after having smelt the aforementioned towel, next to the residence of the missing girl, more specifically next to block 5’s apartment 5A, the first tracker-dog headed toward the door of that apartment, soon whirled about in the direction of block 4..."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANTONIO_SILVA.htm
All the dogs began work at the front of the building, next to the front door of 5A.
-
Not very likely given in my opinion given that Mrs Fenn and others had a perfect view of the gardens below.
Mrs Fenn would have to be out on her balcony to see the garden below. The Oldfields were out not in but 5A gate may have been used as it's only a short distance to the lane.
-
Over the wall where I've added the orange blob?
(http://)
Yes that is correct but I'm not ruling out 5A gate. I think he took the back lane route away and not the front way that guests/owners of that block used.
-
The first dogs were from Portimao and this is what they did;
"They began searching with the dogs from the main entrance to the apartment, having given the blanket to his dog Numi to smell and begin to search".
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLOS-LACAO.htm
The next dogs were from Queluz and this is what they did;
"That after having smelt the aforementioned towel, next to the residence of the missing girl, more specifically next to block 5’s apartment 5A, the first tracker-dog headed toward the door of that apartment, soon whirled about in the direction of block 4..."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANTONIO_SILVA.htm
All the dogs began work at the front of the building, next to the front door of 5A.
The dogs may not have alerted anywhere within apartment 5A but they certainly left plenty of evidence that they most certainly had been there.
Snip
Also, innumerable tracks [footprints] that were taken to be canine in origin mixed with red- and white-coloured chemical products, as used to see fingerprints, and an enormous quantity of hairs probably of animal (dog) origin that made it difficult to find possible traces, especially in the bedroom of two single beds and two children's cots from where the minor disappeared, and next to the aluminium window/door leading from inside the living room to the exterior area behind the apartment.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
-
The dogs may not have alerted anywhere within apartment 5A but they certainly left plenty of evidence that they most certainly had been there.
Snip
Also, innumerable tracks [footprints] that were taken to be canine in origin mixed with red- and white-coloured chemical products, as used to see fingerprints, and an enormous quantity of hairs probably of animal (dog) origin that made it difficult to find possible traces, especially in the bedroom of two single beds and two children's cots from where the minor disappeared, and next to the aluminium window/door leading from inside the living room to the exterior area behind the apartment.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
You do know that these dogs don't 'work' all the time? They begin work after the sniffing of the item belonging to the missing person. The dog from Portimao certainly entered 5A, but began working after exiting the front door.
-
They arrived at the apartment around 5:40PM, earlier than usual, because Madeleine was tired, their other friends were at the beach and Gerry had an all-male tennis game at 6:00PM. At the flat they both bathed the children, and close to 6:00PM Gerry went to the tennis courts, soon after the children had finished their bath. They entered the apartment by the main door, with the key.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm
Madeleine's last known route back to the apartment was using the back lane from the tapas and entering the front way according to Kate. It was not unusual for the dogs to track her scent from the front door and following the lane route around towards the tapas bar.
-
They arrived at the apartment around 5:40PM, earlier than usual, because Madeleine was tired, their other friends were at the beach and Gerry had an all-male tennis game at 6:00PM. At the flat they both bathed the children, and close to 6:00PM Gerry went to the tennis courts, soon after the children had finished their bath. They entered the apartment by the main door, with the key.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm
Madeleine's last known route back to the apartment was using the back lane from the tapas and entering the front way according to Kate. It was not unusual for the dogs to track her scent from the front door and following the lane route around towards the tapas bar.
That's interesting because in her PB she tells us after the first couple of days they hardly used the front door.
-
Petite, yes... but how on earth can you tell her legs are longer than average under all that clothing?!
The distance her knees are from the ground give the clue. I used to teach figure drawing at senior school and my expertise was in portraiture and figure drawing.
-
I follow evidence not what SY may or not be doing. You descend the steps to reach the garden where Eddie alerted. There are two possible exits from the garden. By using the gate which brings you onto the main street near to the tapas entrance where you could be easily spotted (so not so good!) or you can go straight over the small wall without being seen (The Oldfields were at the tapas table at the time Madeleine was removed). I believe the small wall exit was used by Smithman. Nobody used the dark alley way at night so to Smithman it was a safer route to use. Madeleine was removed the patio way in my theory.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article334158.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/2CD25BE0-D5BB-8BDC-646EA3C92CAB0088.jpg)
From memory, on the alleyway side, the small wall is about chest/ maybe shoulder high at this point. Within 5A rear garden, there are bushes and hedging all the way across the southern (alleyway) side
On GEarth dated 6/22/2007 this is clearly shown.
Do you think an abductor would be able to clamber over the hedge and wall keeping a sleeping Madeleine asleep?
I don't
-
You do know that these dogs don't 'work' all the time? They begin work after the sniffing of the item belonging to the missing person. The dog from Portimao certainly entered 5A, but began working after exiting the front door.
Oh I see ... the dogs and their handlers specifically called in to search for a missing child, just sort of hung around not doing anything in particular while they whiled away the time dropping cigarette ash and shedding doggy hairs all over the scene of the crime while ignoring the primary source of Madeleine's disappearance which may have indicated which way she exited.
In my opinion that doesn't sound logical behaviour for guys with their dogs who really pulled out all the stops on Madeleine's behalf for as long as they were thought to be of use and were on site.
But please have it your way if you think these guys overlooked the obvious of clearing their feet by starting at least one their search at source.
My way of thinking is that the GNR did not turn 5A into a howf for brewing up their coffee and a place to exit from before starting work ... I think the handlers got the dogs to start at the very beginning and I think the amount of hair left on the premises would indicate that the handlers and dogs were there long enough to ensure every centimetre and very nook and cranny of 5A was checked out.
How foolish would they have looked at a later date if Madeleine was found behind a bath panel!
-
From memory, on the alleyway side, the small wall is about chest/ maybe shoulder high at this point. Within 5A rear garden, there are bushes and hedging all the way across the southern (alleyway) side
On GEarth dated 6/22/2007 this is clearly shown.
Do you think an abductor ould be able to clamber over the hedge and wall keeping a sleeping Madeleine asleep?
I don't
The wall is smaller from the garden side as these photos prove.
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/13n09resort-488488.jpg)
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/90820.jpg)
And the last photo confirms that Mrs Fenn can't see the garden unless out on the balcony which she wasn't. The Moyes were for 30 minutes so I would need to tie down an exact timeline from them. If they were out at 9 then they should have seen Jez with pram meeting Gerry and chatting below so I think they were out a bit later at around 9:15.
-
The wall is smaller from the garden side as these photos prove.
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/13n09resort-488488.jpg)
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/90820.jpg)
And the last photo confirms that Mrs Fenn can't see the garden unless out on the balcony which she wasn't. The Moyes were for 30 minutes so I would need to tie down an exact timeline from them. If they were out at 9 then they should have seen Jez with pram meeting Gerry and chatting below so I think they were out a bit later at around 9:15.
So, do you think an abductor would be able to clamber over the hedge and wall keeping a sleeping Madeleine asleep?
Do you honestly think that was possible ?
Good night PFinder. Sleep well.
-
The wall is smaller from the garden side as these photos prove.
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/13n09resort-488488.jpg)
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/90820.jpg)
And the last photo confirms that Mrs Fenn can't see the garden unless out on the balcony which she wasn't. The Moyes were for 30 minutes so I would need to tie down an exact timeline from them. If they were out at 9 then they should have seen Jez with pram meeting Gerry and chatting below so I think they were out a bit later at around 9:15.
And another photo to add to your collection
(https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/14-May8/-image004.jpg)
-
That's interesting because in her PB she tells us after the first couple of days they hardly used the front door.
Are there any photos or other evidence to show that the patio doors are under lockable from the outside?
-
Can someone describe how this door is lockable from the outside please.
(https://i.imgur.com/NFe1s0d.jpg)
-
Are there any photos or other evidence to show that the patio doors are under lockable from the outside?
They're not, so if, as Kate says, they hardly used the front door then that means they hardly ever locked their apartment in the day or the evening.
-
Only if you are looking out at that time.
That's the problem, no would-be abductor is going to put themself in a position where they can be easily seen from above. There are easier targets than a corner apartment which was overlooked from above. Add to that the chances of being seen by other witnesses wandering around so I find the entire proposition very unlikely.
-
That's the problem, no would-be abductor is going to put themself in a position where they can be easily seen from above. There are easier targets than a corner apartment which was overlooked from above.
Or do it in stages;
1. Place something on the balcony.
2. Move it to below the balcony.
3. Take it and nip over the wall into the garden of 5B.
4. Retrieve it and go along the passageway in a westerly direction.
In the dark.
-
So, do you think an abductor would be able to clamber over the hedge and wall keeping a sleeping Madeleine asleep?
Do you honestly think that was possible ?
Good night PFinder. Sleep well.
There are 2 possible ways out of the garden to get to the dark lane - either way could be used. Eddie alerted in the garden just before the wall so there is a reason and it should be followed up. Madeleine may have been in that garden at some point that night.
-
There are 2 possible ways out of the garden to get to the dark lane - either way could be used. Eddie alerted in the garden just before the wall so there is a reason and it should be followed up. Madeleine may have been in that garden at some point that night.
Martin Grime decided it wasn't worth following up.
-
The EVRD alerted in the:
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.
Living room, behind sofa.
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
-
The EVRD alerted in the:
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.
Living room, behind sofa.
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
That particular victim recovery dog has a bit of an excitable history of alerting here there and everywhere. Certainly that was all he did in Portugal and in Jersey ... he certainly found nothing which advanced either case being investigated.
In my opinion he was in fact an impedance which sent investigators off on entirely the wrong scent.
-
The EVRD alerted in the:
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.
Living room, behind sofa.
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
I hope they looked for recently disturbed soil in the garden areas
-
I hope they looked for recently disturbed soil in the garden areas
What a very peculiar thing to say.
-
What a very peculiar thing to say.
Really?
Gardens seem an eminently suitable area to temporarily store a body
-
What a very peculiar thing to say.
I don't find it anywhere as near peculiar as the idea that someone stole a 3 year old child so they could breed from her when she got older. I suppose we all have our own ideas about what is or isn't peculiar.
-
I don't find it anywhere as near peculiar as the idea that someone stole a 3 year old child so they could breed from her when she got older. I suppose we all have our own ideas about what is or isn't peculiar.
Nor anymore peculiar than Maddie dying in an accident... The mccanns covering it up and mounting a 12 year campaign to try and find out what happened to her
-
Nor anymore peculiar than Maddie dying in an accident... The mccanns covering it up and mounting a 12 year campaign to try and find out what happened to her
As I said, we all have our own opinions about what is and isn't peculiar.
-
As I said, we all have our own opinions about what is and isn't peculiar.
and thats all they are opinions ...but we also have the opinion of the official police investigation....Sy and the PJ ...They both seem to share my opinion
-
and thats all they are opinions ...but we also have the opinion of the official police investigation....Sy and the PJ ...They both seem to share my opinion
Well that's not quite right as you full well know if you're referring to abduction,on the other hand SY share my opinion on tannerman.
-
Well that's not quite right as you full well know if you're referring to abduction,on the other hand SY share my opinion on tannerman.
My opinion is that the parents, are not involved... Either abduction or woke and wandered is the explanation
-
My opinion is that the parents, are not involved... Either abduction or woke and wandered is the explanation
So you wouldn't think it was peculiar if a 3 year old child was abducted in order to breed from her when she was old enough?
-
So you wouldn't think it was peculiar if a 3 year old child was abducted in order to breed from her when she was old enough?
If you read my post I've answered your question
-
If you read my post I've answered your question
In my opinion abducting a small child to breed from her later is like a film/Dan Brown kind of story, not something that really happens. Parents covering up the death of their child is known to happen in the real world.
-
This breeding thing - how old would she have been before they started the breeding process, 11, or maybe 12 ?
Wasn't that reputedly the age of Mary?
-
In my opinion abducting a small child to breed from her later is like a film/Dan Brown kind of story, not something that really happens. Parents covering up the death of their child is known to happen in the real world.
calpol as a sedative is not in the real world
a 4 year old dying after a fall from a sof is not in the rael world
Parents covering up a childs death thenraising millions to continue the investigation for 12 years is not in the real world...imo
you seem very selective as what you consider as part of the real world...perhaps you are not as open minded as you think
-
This breeding thing - how old would she have been before they started the breeding process, 11, or maybe 12 ?
Wasn't that reputedly the age of Mary?
And the virgin birth.....another mistranslation
-
And the virgin birth.....another mistranslation
The immaculate conception of Jesus Christ is not the same as the virgin birth. The immaculate conception is the conception of the Virgin Mary. She was immaculately conceived, because she had to be conceived originally without sin. It’s a quite different thing from the virgin birth. According to Catholic nonsense ramblings.
-
The immaculate conception of Jesus Christ is not the same as the virgin birth. The immaculate conception is the conception of the Virgin Mary. She was immaculately conceived, because she had to be conceived originally without sin. It’s a quite different thing from the virgin birth. According to Catholic nonsense ramblings.
The virgin birth is a mistranslation... I'm sure you understand that
-
The immaculate conception of Jesus Christ is not the same as the virgin birth. The immaculate conception is the conception of the Virgin Mary. She was immaculately conceived, because she had to be conceived originally without sin. It’s a quite different thing from the virgin birth. According to Catholic nonsense ramblings.
Am I to understand that Mary's Mother was a virgin as well?
-
Am I to understand that Mary's Mother was a virgin as well?
I suppose she would have been at some point.
-
Am I to understand that Mary's Mother was a virgin as well?
You'll need to read it for yourself. It's crackers, but the virgin birth is a popular misconception - pun intended.
According to tradition of the Catholic church, the Virgin Mary's parents, St. Anne and St. Joachim, were childless, when an angel came to them and told them they would give birth to a daughter. During the conception of Mary, she was preserved from the stain of original sin.
It's not a mistranslation, it's stupid people misinterpreting the nonsense their ancestors made up.
-
calpol as a sedative is not in the real world
a 4 year old dying after a fall from a sof is not in the rael world
Parents covering up a childs death thenraising millions to continue the investigation for 12 years is not in the real world...imo
you seem very selective as what you consider as part of the real world...perhaps you are not as open minded as you think
The things you speak of are not facts, they are hypotheses. Dismissing them doesn't rule out the possibility that a child died, that her parents chose not to disclose the death and that they chose to pretend there had been an abduction.
It's possible that after that they were on a merry-go-round and they couldn't get off. The merry-go-round was started and maintained by spin doctors and journalists. It became the McCann circus, the Kate and Gerry show, just as Jon Corner predicted. It was never about finding the supposedly abducted child in my opinion.
The idea that one child has a precious DNA and that someone knew this and stole her in order to breed from her is the stuff of fantasy imo. It would make a good book or film, but real life? Please!
-
You'll need to read it for yourself. It's crackers, but the virgin birth is a popular misconception - pun intended.
According to tradition of the Catholic church, the Virgin Mary's parents, St. Anne and St. Joachim, were childless, when an angel came to them and told them they would give birth to a daughter. During the conception of Mary, she was preserved from the stain of original sin.
It's not a mistranslation, it's stupid people misinterpreting the nonsense their ancestors made up.
Perhaps you don't understand the mistranslation... I think it was the Greek for young women that was translated
-
The things you speak of are not facts, they are hypotheses. Dismissing them doesn't rule out the possibility that a child died, that her parents chose not to disclose the death and that they chose to pretend there had been an abduction.
It's possible that after that they were on a merry-go-round and they couldn't get off. The merry-go-round was started and maintained by spin doctors and journalists. It became the McCann circus, the Kate and Gerry show, just as Jon Corner predicted. It was never about finding the supposedly abducted child in my opinion.
The idea that one child has a precious DNA and that someone knew this and stole her in order to breed from her is the stuff of fantasy imo. It would make a good book or film, but real life? Please!
This is one way why I see supporters as 'enablers' and not supporters at all. They wilfully enable innumerable tinfoil hat theorists by defending their position, despite knowing how ridiculous they are and despite Kate and Gerry's wishes.
-
The things you speak of are not facts, they are hypotheses. Dismissing them doesn't rule out the possibility that a child died, that her parents chose not to disclose the death and that they chose to pretend there had been an abduction.
It's possible that after that they were on a merry-go-round and they couldn't get off. The merry-go-round was started and maintained by spin doctors and journalists. It became the McCann circus, the Kate and Gerry show, just as Jon Corner predicted. It was never about finding the supposedly abducted child in my opinion.
The idea that one child has a precious DNA and that someone knew this and stole her in order to breed from her is the stuff of fantasy imo. It would make a good book or film, but real life? Please!
Calpol is not a sedative fact
There is no report anywhere in the world of a 4 yr old fallung off a sofa and dying.. Fact.
Sadie believes Maddie us, from a certain bloodline.. Fact
So it's possible that others, do.. Fact
-
I suppose she would have been at some point.
You know very well what I meant.
Incidentally, the term Virgin as translated didn't mean the same thing.
-
Perhaps you don't understand the mistranslation... I think it was the Greek for young women that was translated
I understand perfectly. I've actually read all that crap and I've shown you the popular misconception.
I'm not discussing theology here any further. Feel free to pick a theology forum of your choosing and we can go at it over there.
-
You'll need to read it for yourself. It's crackers, but the virgin birth is a popular misconception - pun intended.
According to tradition of the Catholic church, the Virgin Mary's parents, St. Anne and St. Joachim, were childless, when an angel came to them and told them they would give birth to a daughter. During the conception of Mary, she was preserved from the stain of original sin.
It's not a mistranslation, it's stupid people misinterpreting the nonsense their ancestors made up.
Agreed on that one. Although they must have made her Saint Anne for some reason. Either that or they made it up as they went along.
-
Perhaps you don't understand the mistranslation... I think it was the Greek for young women that was translated
That is what I understand happened.
-
Agreed on that one. Although they must have made her Saint Anne for some reason. Either that or they made it up as they went along.
You're right, they literally made it up as they went on. The gospels, for example, were not written contemporaneously and it shows. (I'm not discussing theology still).
But the manner in which Mary found out she was up the stick differs depending on which gospel you pick: Luke - angel Gabriel visits one night, Matthew - Joseph has a dream. Yeh, whatever.
-
Sorry. I think that this is a bit disrespectful to Catholics who hold these beliefs. So if we could be a trifle careful of our language.
Thank You.
-
I understand perfectly. I've actually read all that crap and I've shown you the popular misconception.
I'm not discussing theology here any further. Feel free to pick a theology forum of your choosing and we can go at it over there.
I didn't raise it... I'm not discussing theology but mistranslations which are relevant to the case.... Thou shalt not kill... Is, another.. It should be thou shalt not murder... Killings ok
-
Sorry. I think that this is a bit disrespectful to Catholics who hold these beliefs. So if we could be a trifle careful of our language.
Thank You.
Just Catholics? Other Christians are available.
-
Just Catholics? Other Christians are available.
Are you a Christian or are you just getting offended on behalf of others
-
The things you speak of are not facts, they are hypotheses. Dismissing them doesn't rule out the possibility that a child died, that her parents chose not to disclose the death and that they chose to pretend there had been an abduction.
It's possible that after that they were on a merry-go-round and they couldn't get off. The merry-go-round was started and maintained by spin doctors and journalists. It became the McCann circus, the Kate and Gerry show, just as Jon Corner predicted. It was never about finding the supposedly abducted child in my opinion.
The idea that one child has a precious DNA and that someone knew this and stole her in order to breed from her is the stuff of fantasy imo. It would make a good book or film, but real life? Please!
And you dismissing Sadies theory does not rule it out... That is another fact...
-
Calpol is not a sedative fact
There is no report anywhere in the world of a 4 yr old fallung off a sofa and dying.. Fact.
Sadie believes Maddie us, from a certain bloodline.. Fact
So it's possible that others, do.. Fact
Why do you cling to those two points so desperately? Dismissing them doesn't dismiss the possibility of sedation or death, you know.
Believing in something doesn't make it factual. Lots of people believe lots of things and a lot of the time they're wrong.
-
Why do you cling to those two points so desperately? Dismissing them doesn't dismiss the possibility of sedation or death, you know.
Believing in something doesn't make it factual. Lots of people believe lots of things and a lot of the time they're wrong.
I don't cling to anything. I repeat them because this is what amaral and according to amaral... What the initial investigation believed. An investigation which you and others support as being competent when believing such rubbish is the height of incompetence
-
And you dismissing Sadies theory does not rule it out... That is another fact...
Of course not. It's right up there with the lizards, the end of the worlders, moon landing questioners and the twin tower conspiracies. None of them are impossible, but they are very very very unlikely.
-
I don't cling to anything. I repeat them because this is what amaral and according to amaral... What the initial investigation believed. An investigation which you and others support as being competent when believing such rubbish is the height of incompetence
One man does not an investigation make, despite some choosing to pretend he does. One man's hypotheses are not the only possibilities either.
In my opinion sedation could have occured without Calpol being involved at all. In my opinion death could have occured without a sofa being involved at all.
-
One man does not an investigation make, despite some choosing to pretend he does. One man's hypotheses are not the only possibilities either.
In my opinion sedation could have occured without Calpol being involved at all. In my opinion death could have occured without a sofa being involved at all.
according to amaral his views reflected those of the entire team...his book was based on the police files...im sure you remember ...im pretending nothing you are totally mistaken
-
Of course not. It's right up there with the lizards, the end of the worlders, moon landing questioners and the twin tower conspiracies. None of them are impossible, but they are very very very unlikely.
yet none have been ruled out...so to claim something has significance because it hasnt been ruled out ...is a pretty pathetic argument.
-
Just Catholics? Other Christians are available.
I requested some care with language regarding Catholic Beliefs. I did not ask for a lesson in Theology.
-
Of course not. It's right up there with the lizards, the end of the worlders, moon landing questioners and the twin tower conspiracies. None of them are impossible, but they are very very very unlikely.
I have already said that I am not having Sadie mocked anymore. So don't go there again.
-
I have already said that I am not having Sadie mocked anymore. So don't go there again.
I'm not mocking anyone. I reserve the right, however, to express my views on a theory which, in my opinion, is so out of the ordinary it is not believable. Theories should rest on evidence, not on myth in my opinion.
-
I'm not mocking anyone. I reserve the right, however, to express my views on a theory which, in my opinion, is so out of the ordinary it is not believable. Theories should rest on evidence, not on myth in my opinion.
So you agree that Sadie has a right to her opinion.
-
My theory: Sergei Malinka and Robert Murat conspired with the T9 to sell MM to Moroccan carpet dealers in return for an antique Persian Mahal rug. The rug was sold at Sotheby's and the proceeds split evenly (minus commission).
All my opinion, of course. Please don't scrutinise it, or mock it in any way, as I may be offended.
-
So you agree that Sadie has a right to her opinion.
Everyone has a right to an opinion including me. If, in my opinion, Sadie's theory is beyond belief I have the right to say so imo.
-
Everyone has a right to an opinion including me. If, in my opinion, Sadie's theory is beyond belief I have the right to say so imo.
Beyond your belief. Personally, I have a bit of a problem with your beliefs. But I don't mock you.
-
Beyond your belief. Personally, I have a bit of a problem with your beliefs. But I don't mock you.
Thank you, but feel free to mock/criticise my beliefs if you wish. Just don't mock/criticise me as a person.
-
Thank you, but feel free to mock/criticise my beliefs if you wish. Just don't mock/criticise me as a person.
You do mock Sadie, so don't try The Semantics Game with me. I am so much better at it than you are.
-
You do mock Sadie, so don't try The Semantics Game with me. I am so much better at it than you are.
Please give examples to support your opinion. Thank you.
-
Thank you, but feel free to mock/criticise my beliefs if you wish. Just don't mock/criticise me as a person.
a persons beleif is part of their persona...Its not possible to mock someones beliefs and not mock the person
-
I'm not mocking anyone. I reserve the right, however, to express my views on a theory which, in my opinion, is so out of the ordinary it is not believable. Theories should rest on evidence, not on myth in my opinion.
those who question 911 would say their theories are based on evidence
-
a persons beleif is part of their persona...Its not possible to mock someones beliefs and not mock the person
Some people are unable to seperate their opinions and beliefs from their 'self'. That's exactly why they feel personally attacked when it's their opinions and beliefs which are being questioned.
-
My theory: Sergei Malinka and Robert Murat conspired with the T9 to sell MM to Moroccan carpet dealers in return for an antique Persian Mahal rug. The rug was sold at Sotheby's and the proceeds split evenly (minus commission).
All my opinion, of course. Please don't scrutinise it, or mock it in any way, as I may be offended.
Oh! the open window,boy are the defence in for some fun with the prosecution witness's.
-
a persons beleif is part of their persona...Its not possible to mock someones beliefs and not mock the person
Absolutely right. But basically it is a knowledge of the use of words which some people on this Forum don't have. Probably to do with lack of education, so not actually their fault. And it can be quite hard work in choosing words carefully.
Why bother when mocking someone is so much more fun.
-
This breeding thing - how old would she have been before they started the breeding process, 11, or maybe 12 ?
Wasn't that reputedly the age of Mary?
Best its only one child, although with Jesus it caused a stir,but with Cain and Abel, it was two's a crowd.
-
Best its only one child, although with Jesus it caused a stir,but with Cain and Abel, it was two's a crowd.
What on Earth did Cain and Abel have to do with Jesus?
Did any of them have a Theory?
-
Some people are unable to seperate their opinions and beliefs from their 'self'. That's exactly why they feel personally attacked when it's their opinions and beliefs which are being questioned.
I think that post is absolute rubbish... It's our beliefs that make us who we are. People don't just believe in the bible... They are Christians
-
Absolutely right. But basically it is a knowledge of the use of words which some people on this Forum don't have. Probably to do with lack of education, so not actually their fault. And it can be quite hard work in choosing words carefully.
Why bother when mocking someone is so much more fun.
So you're convinced that criticising someone's theory is just the same as criticising the person? Doesn't that mean that no theories at all can be discussed?
-
I think that post is absolute rubbish... It's our beliefs that make us who we are. People don't just believe in the bible... They are Christians
Or is it who we are that leads us to choose what to believe in? It seems to have worked that way round with David Icke.
-
What on Earth did Cain and Abel have to do with Jesus?
Did any of them have a Theory?
The chosen one could only come from them.
-
Or is it who we are that leads us to choose what to believe in? It seems to have worked that way round with David Icke.
That still supports the fact that our beliefs define who we are
-
So you're convinced that criticising someone's theory is just the same as criticising the person? Doesn't that mean that no theories at all can be discussed?
Did I say that? I don't think so.
-
The chosen one could only come from them.
Really? What happened to The Land of Nod?
-
Really? What happened to The Land of Nod?
He had children.
-
He had children.
Who had children? And with whom?
-
Absolutely right. But basically it is a knowledge of the use of words which some people on this Forum don't have. Probably to do with lack of education, so not actually their fault. And it can be quite hard work in choosing words carefully.
Why bother when mocking someone is so much more fun.
I'm inclined to disagree with you, as I think most people who post on here are fairly well educated, although the less educated often use unusual words in an attempt to look smarter than they are.
Perhaps they subscribe to Readers Digest 8(0(*
What I find more striking is the woefully poor comprehension skills so often displayed here.
-
a persons beleif is part of their persona...Its not possible to mock someones beliefs and not mock the person
I think that post is absolute rubbish... It's our beliefs that make us who we are. People don't just believe in the bible... They are Christians
Well that didn't take long.
-
Well that didn't take long.
Theres no contradiction... Mock my beliefs and you mock me... Difference is I'm not particularly bothered... I actually find you particularly inoffensive... Hope that doesn't offend you
-
I'm inclined to disagree with you, as I think most people who post on here are fairly well educated, although the less educated often use unusual words in an attempt to look smarter than they are.
Perhaps they subscribe to Readers Digest 8(0(*
What I find more striking is the woefully poor comprehension skills so often displayed here.
Do you understand what comprehension means...
-
That still supports the fact that our beliefs define who we are
Some people are inclined to believe certain things, others are not. I was raised a Christian, but I'm not one now. It's who we are that defines what we believe imo.
-
Some people are inclined to believe certain things, others are not. I was raised a Christian, but I'm not one now. It's who we are that defines what we believe imo.
You agree with what I've said but don't seem to realise imo. You don't believe smoking causes cancer. That is a stupid belief in mine and most people's opinion. How do you think that reflects on you as a person. It's our beliefs that define us as people
-
Really insightful post deleted on sight. Why?
On topic, touching on all elements of the thread, answering the question - gone.
Sad.
-
You agree with what I've said but don't seem to realise imo. You don't believe smoking causes cancer. That is a stupid belief in mine and most people's opinion. How do you think that reflects on you as a person. It's our beliefs that define us as people
So you say we are what we believe. I say the opposite and you think we're agreeing?
It's our behaviour which defines us as people. I learned that when I watched and listened to the nastiness and hypocrisy that church - goers can display.
-
So you say we are what we believe. I say the opposite and you think we're agreeing?
It's our behaviour which defines us as people. I learned that when I watched and listened to the nastiness and hypocrisy that church - goers can display.
Its our behaviour which defines us and its our beliefs that govern our behaviour. That really is quite simple. There are posters here who beleive the mccanns have lied...are hiding something...have covered up maddies death....and those beliefs govern their behavior towards the mccanns ....and then their bevavior defines then as people.
beliefs govern behaviour...that is a simple fact
-
Its our behaviour which defines us and its our beliefs that govern our behaviour. That really is quite simple. There are posters here who beleive the mccanns have lied...are hiding something...have covered up maddies death....and those beliefs govern their behavior towards the mccanns ....and then their bevavior defines then as people.
beliefs govern behaviour...that is a simple fact
Some people give their life savings to scammers. Whatever belief system they're subscribing to has clearly let them down. That's how unreliable beliefs can be. Of course in our touchy feely world we call them victims instead of idiots.
-
So you say we are what we believe. I say the opposite and you think we're agreeing?
It's our behaviour which defines us as people. I learned that when I watched and listened to the nastiness and hypocrisy that church - goers can display.
Expressing your beliefs is part of the behaviour which defines you as a person does it not? So if someone expresses the belief (for example) that women are inferior to men then that tells us something about themselves as people, something not very credible or creditable. IMO.
-
Some people give their life savings to scammers. Whatever belief system they're subscribing to has clearly let them down. That's how unreliable beliefs can be. Of course in our touchy feely world we call them victims instead of idiots.
You might call them idiots... I dont. Particularly old people who lose their life savings...to me they are victims...to you idiots. Thats your belief and defines what sort of person you are..to me vile beliefs equals vile person
-
You might call them idiots... I dont. Particularly old people who lose their life savings...to me they are victims...to you idiots. Thats your belief and defines what sort of person you are
Indeed it does - a rather unfeeling, cruel one, imo.
-
I hadn't realised before how very sad this all is.
-
I hadn't realised before how very sad this all is.
Within the context of your sentence, what does 'this' refer to ?
-
Expressing your beliefs is part of the behaviour which defines you as a person does it not? So if someone expresses the belief (for example) that women are inferior to men then that tells us something about themselves as people, something not very credible or creditable. IMO.
The fact that you believe this person to be 'not very credible or creditable' tells me that you are quick to judge without knowing the circumstances. What if the person is a woman? When it comes to pushing heavy cars or just changing a tyre I have always been quite content to acknowledge my inferiority to the men around me and to play the damsel in distress card.
-
The fact that you believe this person to be 'not very credible or creditable' tells me that you are quick to judge without knowing the circumstances. What if the person is a woman? When it comes to pushing heavy cars or just changing a tyre I have always been quite content to acknowledge my inferiority to the men around me and to play the damsel in distress card.
but you have just judged those who are scammed as idiots...without knowing the full circumstances
-
The fact that you believe this person to be 'not very credible or creditable' tells me that you are quick to judge without knowing the circumstances. What if the person is a woman? When it comes to pushing heavy cars or just changing a tyre I have always been quite content to acknowledge my inferiority to the men around me and to play the damsel in distress card.
The circumstances are someone expressing the general view that women are inferior to men. Change it for the view “that blacks are inferior to whites” or “that gays are inferior to straights”, same applies unless you’re going to play the pedant card and bring up all sorts of absurd caveats to try and deflect.
-
but you have just judged those who are scammed as idiots...without knowing the full circumstances
Haha, perfectly put.
-
You might call them idiots... I dont. Particularly old people who lose their life savings...to me they are victims...to you idiots. Thats your belief and defines what sort of person you are..to me vile beliefs equals vile person
Victims of what? Their own naivity, idiocy or greed? No-one can scam someone else without their co-operation.
-
The circumstances are someone expressing the general view that women are inferior to men. Change it for the view “that blacks are inferior to whites” or “that gays are inferior to straights”, same applies unless you’re going to play the pedant card and bring up all sorts of absurd caveats to try and deflect.
You accuse me of pedantry. I accuse you of sweeping statements which ignore detail.
-
Victims of what? Their own naivity, idiocy or greed? No-one can scam someone else without their co-operation.
Interesting post... So an elderly person who is scammed our if their life savings is a victim of their own naivety or idiocy ..not the victim of a criminal.. In your opinion .
I think you have lost any credibility you may have had with that post
-
You accuse me of pedantry. I accuse you of sweeping statements which ignore detail.
I was making a brief post on a internet chat room forum, not writing a book. It was an example and you know damn well the point I was making but yet you insist on deflecting with silly off topic caveats.
-
Interesting post... So an elderly person who is scammed our if their life savings is a victim of their own naivety or idiocy ..not the victim of a criminal.. In your opinion .
I think you have lost any credibility you may have had with that post
Don’t forget greed.
-
Expressing your beliefs is part of the behaviour which defines you as a person does it not? So if someone expresses the belief (for example) that blacks are inferior to whites then that tells us something about themselves as people, something not very credible or creditable. IMO
-
Expressing your beliefs is part of the behaviour which defines you as a person does it not? So if someone expresses the belief (for example) that blacks are inferior to whites then that tells us something about themselves as people, something not very credible or creditable. IMO
So to return to the subject...If someone tells me that a child was abducted because her special bloodline made her suitable to be used for breeding at a later date I may well reach conclusions about that person.
Being a respectful type, however, I wouldn't dream of sharing my conclusions with them. I would, however, ask them to show me their evidence.
If no evidence was forthcoming then their theory would not be sustainable. Saying that is not an attack on the person, it's just pointing out that their theory doesn't have evidential foundations.
-
So to return to the subject...If someone tells me that a child was abducted because her special bloodline made her suitable to be used for breeding at a later date I may well reach conclusions about that person.
Being a respectful type, however, I wouldn't dream of sharing my conclusions with them. I would, however, ask them to show me their evidence.
If no evidence was forthcoming then their theory would not be sustainable. Saying that is not an attack on the person, it's just pointing out that their theory doesn't have evidential foundations.
It's like the claim the McCanns are involved in their daughters disappearance..
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
-
So to return to the subject...If someone tells me that a child was abducted because her special bloodline made her suitable to be used for breeding at a later date I may well reach conclusions about that person.
Being a respectful type, however, I wouldn't dream of sharing my conclusions with them. I would, however, ask them to show me their evidence.
If no evidence was forthcoming then their theory would not be sustainable. Saying that is not an attack on the person, it's just pointing out that their theory doesn't have evidential foundations.
Hitchens:That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
-
Hichens:That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
Beat you too it.. What, are the chances of two posters coming up with the same quote at the same time
-
Beat you too it.. What, are the chances of two posters coming up with the same quote at the same time
University challenge.
-
University challenge.
Dont spoil it
-
Dont spoil it
s..mbag College
-
It's like the claim the McCanns are involved in their daughters disappearance..
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
It depends what you call evidence. In my opinion there's evidence that the McCanns were up to something. There's no evidence that their daughter had noteworthy DNA or that she was abducted to be kept until old enough to breed.
-
It depends what you call evidence. In my opinion there's evidence that the McCanns were up to something. There's no evidence that their daughter had noteworthy DNA or that she was abducted to be kept until old enough to breed.
It's called Hope. Some of us still do.
-
It's called Hope. Some of us still do.
My hope is that whoever ruined that little girl's life gets their just desserts, but I don't expect it to happen.
-
My hope is that whoever ruined that little girl's life gets their just desserts, but I don't expect it to happen.
It will. But then Madeleine's life might not have been ruined. That is the difference between you and me.
-
s..mbag College
Uncalled for. I thought I was meant to be the bitter one?
-
It depends what you call evidence. In my opinion there's evidence that the McCanns were up to something. There's no evidence that their daughter had noteworthy DNA or that she was abducted to be kept until old enough to breed.
" the McCanns were up to something"
Can you add to what that "something" was?
-
" the McCanns were up to something"
Can you add to what that "something" was?
Delete your phone records.
Vista do Mar.
There's two.
Summat not reet mert.
-
Delete your phone records.
Vista do Mar.
There's two.
Summat not reet mert.
Oh my goodness.
Is that it?
Forward that information immediately to NSY.
-
Oh my goodness.
Is that it?
Forward that information immediately to NSY.
You asked for 'something'. I mean, there's dozens more, as you know.
Actually, you've inspired me to do a 'We Didn't Start the Fire' parody.
It's gonna be epic!
Do do be doo be doo doo....(that's not it by the way, Ern)
-
It depends what you call evidence. In my opinion there's evidence that the McCanns were up to something. There's no evidence that their daughter had noteworthy DNA or that she was abducted to be kept until old enough to breed.
The problem you have with that is that what Amaral wrote in his book detailing what he thought was evidence quite simply was not. It was just his belief.
He based his book, his theories, his contribution as coordinator on Madeleine's case on ephemera which lasted only in his fevered certainty for as long as it was not subject to scrutiny and when it was, simply vanished like a puff of smoke.
There is absolutely no evidence that the McCanns "were up to something". If there had been one or both of them would probably still be doing time in a Portuguese jail and like Joana before her, there would have been no need for anyone to bother keeping the flame alight in the search for Madeleine.
Please bear in mind that tagging a libel with 'opinion' doesn't make it less of a libel.
-
Delete your phone records.
Vista do Mar.
There's two.
Summat not reet mert.
What is Vista do Mar?
-
The problem you have with that is that what Amaral wrote in his book detailing what he thought was evidence quite simply was not. It was just his belief.
He based his book, his theories, his contribution as coordinator on Madeleine's case on ephemera which lasted only in his fevered certainty for as long as it was not subject to scrutiny and when it was, simply vanished like a puff of smoke.
There is absolutely no evidence that the McCanns "were up to something". If there had been one or both of them would probably still be doing time in a Portuguese jail and like Joana before her, there would have been no need for anyone to bother keeping the flame alight in the search for Madeleine.
Please bear in mind that tagging a libel with 'opinion' doesn't make it less of a libel.
Good read though, lid.
-
What is Vista do Mar?
Where's the [rolleyes] emoji?
-
You asked for 'something'. I mean, there's dozens more, as you know.
Actually, you've inspired me to do a 'We Didn't Start the Fire' parody.
It's gonna be epic!
Do do be doo be doo doo....(that's not it by the way, Ern)
(^&& (^&&
-
can i just say im not in the fire areas here in australia but can you all think of those in australia affected it is a shocking thing and im so sad about it
-
can i just say im not in the fire areas here in australia but can you all think of those in australia affected it is a shocking thing and im so sad about it
Most of us are Carly. We just don't have any real idea. We do get fires here in France, but Brittany got very shirty about this some time ago. No Bloody Garden Bonfires from March until October.
But nasty people do start these fires, although perhaps not always.
Is Tasmania more wet than Australia?
Sorry. I am ignoring the Off Topic because the whole thing is awful.
-
can i just say im not in the fire areas here in australia but can you all think of those in australia affected it is a shocking thing and im so sad about it
Conjola.
-
Conjola.
Oh, dear
So much fear; so much pain; so much loss of life to both wild animals and humans. Poor kangeroo.
-
Oh, dear
So much fear; so much pain; so much loss of life to both wild animals and humans. Poor kangeroo.
It's dreadful.
Heartbreaking!
-
The problem you have with that is that what Amaral wrote in his book detailing what he thought was evidence quite simply was not. It was just his belief.
He based his book, his theories, his contribution as coordinator on Madeleine's case on ephemera which lasted only in his fevered certainty for as long as it was not subject to scrutiny and when it was, simply vanished like a puff of smoke.
There is absolutely no evidence that the McCanns "were up to something". If there had been one or both of them would probably still be doing time in a Portuguese jail and like Joana before her, there would have been no need for anyone to bother keeping the flame alight in the search for Madeleine.
Please bear in mind that tagging a libel with 'opinion' doesn't make it less of a libel.
I didn't mention Amaral; I'm afraid I don't share the McCann/supporter's obsession with the man. All the evidence has been discussed ad infinitum. I've seen no evidence that Madeleine is alive and findable, that's for sure.
Please explain how you think I've libelled someone.
-
Where's the [rolleyes] emoji?
Well?
-
I didn't mention Amaral; I'm afraid I don't share the McCann/supporter's obsession with the man. All the evidence has been discussed ad infinitum. I've seen no evidence that Madeleine is alive and findable, that's for sure.
Please explain how you think I've libelled someone.
I don't think you are in any position to describe other posters, as obsessed. How many hours have you spent poring over the files and posting on this and other forums
-
It will. But then Madeleine's life might not have been ruined. That is the difference between you and me.
By not being brought up by her parents,hmmm.
-
I don't think you are in any position to describe other posters, as obsessed. How many hours have you spent poring over the files and posting on this and other forums
I can recommend reading the files. It helps to clear up myths/miconceptions, many of which were spread by the media such as;
Amaral being in charge of the investigation
Telecinco had obtained leaked copies of the McCann's police statements
No police searched Praia da Luz during the night of 3/4th May 2007
Kate McCann told the police of her worries that her children had been sedated
That the patio doors were left unlocked in case of fire
That dining at the Tapas restaurant was similar to dining in one's garden
That the bar quiz run by the aerobics instructor took place on 3rd
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474656/Madeleine-missing-hour-did-McCanns-check-children.html
-
I can recommend reading the files. It helps to clear up myths/miconceptions, many of which were spread by the media such as;
Amaral being in charge of the investigation
Telecinco had obtained leaked copies of the McCann's police statements
No police searched Praia da Luz during the night of 3/4th May 2007
Kate McCann told the police of her worries that her children had been sedated
That the patio doors were left unlocked in case of fire
That dining at the Tapas restaurant was similar to dining in one's garden
That the bar quiz run by the aerobics instructor took place on 3rd
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474656/Madeleine-missing-hour-did-McCanns-check-children.html
That could be described as obsessive. Perhaps best not to describe others as obsessive when the same description could be applied to yourself
-
That could be described as obsessive. Perhaps best not to describe others as obsessive when the same description could be applied to yourself
Why do you see reading the files as 'obsessive'? Therin lies the evidence, which the media and a lot of supporters seem to be oblivious to.
-
Why do you see reading the files as 'obsessive'? Therin lies the evidence, which the media and a lot of supporters seem to be oblivious to.
That the files contain evidence taht supporters are oblivious to is opinion...not fact....stating opinion as fact is something you continually do...the fact you dont seem to understand that speaks volunes.
Understanding how little amaral understood is also a key to understanding the case and should not be ignored imo...and is not obsessive imo.
There is evidence in the files but your interpretation of it and its importance is your opinion.
There is an investigation by two police forces...both of which do not see the mccanns as suspects...but you know better...thats more than a bit foolish imo. Its on par with the 911 truthsters you mock
-
That the files contain evidence taht supporters are oblivious to is opinion...not fact....stating opinion as fact is something you continually do...the fact you dont seem to understand that speaks volunes.
Understanding how little amaral understood is also a key to understanding the case and should not be ignored imo...and is not obsessive imo.
There is evidence in the files but your interpretation of it and its importance is your opinion.
There is an investigation by two police forces...both of which do not see the mccanns as suspects...but you know better...thats more than a bit foolish imo. Its on par with the 911 truthsters you mock
If that were to change would you consider it rude of them not to inform anyone in the media or forum land.
-
If that were to change would you consider it rude of them not to inform anyone in the media or forum land.
Your post is a fairly typical example of conspiracy theory .
Remember.. What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
There is no evidence the mccanns, are suspects or are being investigated
-
Why do you see reading the files as 'obsessive'? Therin lies the evidence, which the media and a lot of supporters seem to be oblivious to.
You can read and study the files as much as you want... But if you don't understand the significance of the evidence and what constitutes reliable evidence you are wasting your time... Imo... And that's exactly what I think you have done. All those hours studying them... A complete waste of time
-
Your post is a fairly typical example of conspiracy theory .
Remember.. What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
There is no evidence the mccanns, are suspects or are being investigated
Your post is typical of the conspiracy theories that surround the current investigation.
What form of evidence would you consider that they were,just admit you've no more idea of the current state of affairs regarding what the PJ/OG are up to, no more than the man in the moon does.You can repeat ad nauseam that line,doesn't make it so in the present day.
-
You can read and study the files as much as you want... But if you don't understand the significance of the evidence and what constitutes reliable evidence you are wasting your time... Imo... And that's exactly what I think you have done. All those hours studying them... A complete waste of time
But G_unit hasn't wasted £12 million in doing so,credit where credit is due,remember this. Imminent arrest's my arse.
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/madeleine-mccann-arrests-imminent-after-british-police-request-assistance-from-portuguese-authorities-29911574.html
-
Your post is typical of the conspiracy theories that surround the current investigation.
What form of evidence would you consider that they were,just admit you've no more idea of the current state of affairs regarding what the PJ/OG are up to, no more than the man in the moon does.You can repeat ad nauseam that line,doesn't make it so in the present day.
Both investigations have made it clear the mccanns, are not suspects . I see no evidence if then currently being investigated. Where's the conspiracy in that.
Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns..
That's a whole lot if conspiring
-
I didn't mention Amaral; I'm afraid I don't share the McCann/supporter's obsession with the man. All the evidence has been discussed ad infinitum. I've seen no evidence that Madeleine is alive and findable, that's for sure.
Please explain how you think I've libelled someone.
Please reread your post.
-
But G_unit hasn't wasted £12 million in doing so,credit where credit is due,remember this. Imminent arrest's my arse.
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/madeleine-mccann-arrests-imminent-after-british-police-request-assistance-from-portuguese-authorities-29911574.html
That's the daily mirror talking about imminent arrests not SY.
-
I hate this sceptic/supporter thing but it seems to me the 'sceptics' have a theory and suspects which most 'supporters' don't. Most 'supporters' will argue that the 'sceptics' theory/suspects lack evidence but the fact remains 'sceptics' have something to fill the void.
I don't see myself as sceptic or supporter but I do have a theory/suspects which doesn't involve the McCanns and/or T7. I've sent an update to John and Myster which imo further supports my theory/suspect.
-
I hate this sceptic/supporter thing but it seems to me the 'sceptics' have a theory and suspects which most 'supporters' don't. Most 'supporters' will argue that the 'sceptics' theory/suspects lack evidence but the fact remains 'sceptics' have something to fill the void.
I don't see myself as sceptic or supporter but I do have a theory/suspects which doesn't involve the McCanns and/or T7. I've sent an update to John and Myster which imo further supports my theory/suspect.
I've said before I'm sceptical we've heard the full facts of the events on the night in question,couldn't care less about a label.
-
Both investigations have made it clear the mccanns, are not suspects . I see no evidence if then currently being investigated. Where's the conspiracy in that.
Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns..
That's a whole lot if conspiring
They do?
-
They do?
There's clever people on here you know. You might think you know what you think, but they think they know what you really think.
-
I hate this sceptic/supporter thing but it seems to me the 'sceptics' have a theory and suspects which most 'supporters' don't. Most 'supporters' will argue that the 'sceptics' theory/suspects lack evidence but the fact remains 'sceptics' have something to fill the void.
I don't see myself as sceptic or supporter but I do have a theory/suspects which doesn't involve the McCanns and/or T7. I've sent an update to John and Myster which imo further supports my theory/suspect.
Come on, Love, haven't you sussed it yet? We are all bored witless and in serious need of human contact. Being a Moderator is just a bonus. It separates the likes of you and me from the common herd.
Don't worry about it. You will get better at this as time goes by. At least I hope you will.
-
There's clever people on here you know. You might think you know what you think, but they think they know what you really think.
Rumsfield would fit right in,known unknowns.
-
Come on, Love, haven't you sussed it yet? We are all bored witless and in serious need of human contact. Being a Moderator is just a bonus. It separates the likes of you and me from the common herd.
Don't worry about it. You will get better at this as time goes by. At least I hope you will.
You didn't need to write it down,its easily seen.
-
I hate this sceptic/supporter thing but it seems to me the 'sceptics' have a theory and suspects which most 'supporters' don't. Most 'supporters' will argue that the 'sceptics' theory/suspects lack evidence but the fact remains 'sceptics' have something to fill the void.
I don't see myself as sceptic or supporter but I do have a theory/suspects which doesn't involve the McCanns and/or T7. I've sent an update to John and Myster which imo further supports my theory/suspect.
you are once again mistaken...the evidence points towards abduction ...with woke and wandered a possibility. Theres not enough evidence to be anymore specific...although some like you think there is.
-
Worth remembering where Grange are in the last update.2017
Rowley:All the hypothesises that you or I could come up with, they all have to remain open and the key lines of enquiry open today focus on one or two of those areas but we have to keep them all open until we get to that critical piece of evidence that narrows it down and helps us to be more confident as to exactly what has happened on
the day Maddie went missing.
-
There's clever people on here you know. You might think you know what you think, but they think they know what you really think.
Good one.
It never ceases to amaze me how John managed to put together such a clever bunch. But then the idiots soon leave because they can't hack it and can't compete.
We do need you all you know. This Forum would be nothing otherwise.
-
Well?
What was the question?
-
you are once again mistaken...the evidence points towards abduction ...with woke and wandered a possibility. Theres not enough evidence to be anymore specific...although some like you think there is.
Mistaken with regards to what exactly?
-
You didn't need to write it down,its easily seen.
That statement was a joke. Besides, some idiot has got to do it. My glory is in doing nothing much at all. I always hope that just being here will be sufficient.
-
That statement was a joke.
Many a slip twixt cup and lip.
-
What was the question?
Sometimes it's what you don't say that matters.
-
You have made it quite clear what you think...perhaps you dont realise that
Please provide cites for me making it quite clear that I think the following;
"Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
Or do you think you are a mind reader?
-
Many a slip twixt cup and lip.
Not for me there isn't. I know exactly what I am doing.
I have never Deleted a Comment of yours. But then you are never particularly offensive.
However, a bit more content to your Comments would be welcome. I am quite sure that you can do this. I don't have to agree with you.
-
Please provide cites for me making it quite clear that I think the following;
"Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
Or do you think you are a mind reader?
you will have to de better than that....i was referring to sceptics in general in that post . Im not a mind reader Im a post reader ....and thats where I get my knowledge of what you think
-
What was the question?
Vista Do Mar - what is it?
-
you will have to de better than that....i was referring to sceptics in general in that post . Im not a mind reader Im a post reader ....and thats where I get my knowledge of what you think
So I'm not a 'sceptic in general' then? Can you find any cite for anyone saying those things then?
-
So I'm not a 'sceptic in general' then? Can you find any cite for anyone saying those things then?
The furthest you will admit to. is “The McCanns were up to something”. You’re far too smart to allow your real views to be available for scrutiny as you probably realise they wouldn’t stand up. Well done you.
-
So I'm not a 'sceptic in general' then? Can you find any cite for anyone saying those things then?
you are a sceptic ...but try and pretend not to be imo.....you try to make out you are some sort of independent thinker...imo...you are not. There are absolutely loads of cites for sceptics saying those things. Have a look at the site you have reccomended for facts ...CMOMM
-
Vista Do Mar - what is it?
The McCann's temporary gaff. But you knew that, despite pretending not to for a day.
-
The McCann's temporary gaff. But you knew that, despite pretending not to for a day.
What?? I must have entered the parallel universe *gropes for the portal back*
-
you are a sceptic ...but try and pretend not to be imo.....you try to make out you are some sort of independent thinker...imo...you are not. There are absolutely loads of cites for sceptics saying those things. Have a look at the site you have reccomended for facts ...CMOMM
If you want to make accusations you need to find and quote the cites supporting them, not me. Thems the rules imo.
-
If you want to make accusations you need to find and quote the cites supporting them, not me. Thems the rules imo.
You can say anything you like without a cite as long as you write IMO, IMO.
-
You can say anything you like without a cite as long as you write IMO, IMO.
The poster included no 'imo's'.
-
The poster included no 'imo's'.
you need to visit Specsavers.
-
you will have to de better than that....i was referring to sceptics in general in that post . Im not a mind reader Im a post reader ....and thats where I get my knowledge of what you think
Surely you can provide at least a couple of cites?
Generalisation of a group of people is never a good idea. I know of a certain couple of Paedophiles who support the McCanns! what should I make of that? Going by the forum 'thinkers' you would all be the same. As an independent thinker- I know better.
You are very quick to make judgments of posters who disagree with you- even though we are told it is in the rules NOT to do that.
Sceptics do not all share the same theory, those that have one that is.
-
Surely you can provide at least a couple of cites?
Generalisation of a group of people is never a good idea. I know of a certain couple of Paedophiles who support the McCanns! what should I make of that? Going by the forum 'thinkers' you would all be the same. As an independent thinker- I know better.
You are very quick to make judgments of posters who disagree with you- even though we are told it is in the rules NOT to do that.
Sceptics do not all share the same theory, those that have one that is.
You can make of it what you like... we know that sceptics share common beliefs...one is that the mccans are not or may not be being truthful and that they know what happenned to maddie
-
If you want to make accusations you need to find and quote the cites supporting them, not me. Thems the rules imo.
do you need cites to confirm that sceptics beleive the mccanns are lying when they say they do not know what happened to maddie
-
You can make of it what you like... we know that sceptics share common beliefs...one is that the mccans are not or may not be being truthful and that they know what happenned to maddie
It is very true many people do not believe the parents story. However, The parents claim to know their daughter was abducted via a window by a gang of paedophiles. The then changed their minds to being abducted by a childless couple?
Not everyone believes the parents murdered their daughter, or hid a body or was abducted so it is best not to lob everyone in a box.
-
It is very true many people do not believe the parents story. However, The parents claim to know their daughter was abducted via a window by a gang of paedophiles. The then changed their minds to being abducted by a childless couple?
Not everyone believes the parents murdered their daughter, or hid a body or was abducted so it is best not to lob everyone in a box.
I don't think you have any grasp of the actual facts so best leave it there
-
do you need cites to confirm that sceptics beleive the mccanns are lying when they say they do not know what happened to maddie
I didn't ask for cites for that.
-
you need to visit Specsavers.
Do I?
"Both investigations have made it clear the mccanns, are not suspects . I see no evidence if then currently being investigated. Where's the conspiracy in that.
Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns..
That's a whole lot if conspiring"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
-
I don't think you have any grasp of the actual facts so best leave it there
I think it fair to say, you are out on a rope, with a shaky chair at your feet with this particular part of the discussion.
-
Do I?
"Both investigations have made it clear the mccanns, are not suspects . I see no evidence if then currently being investigated. Where's the conspiracy in that.
Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns..
That's a whole lot if conspiring"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
Yes you do... I haven't said all sceptics.. I've said sceptics.
Isn't it amazing even a post in English.. No translation.. Can be misunderstood
-
Do I?
"Both investigations have made it clear the mccanns, are not suspects . I see no evidence if then currently being investigated. Where's the conspiracy in that.
Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns..
That's a whole lot if conspiring"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
No, you don't I have 20/20 vision and see no IMO.. not a one.
-
I think it fair to say, you are out on a rope, with a shaky chair at your feet with this particular part of the discussion.
Really.. I don't take much notice of what you post in general so I'll carry on regardless
-
Yes you do... I haven't said all sceptics.. I've said sceptics.
Isn't it amazing even a post in English.. No translation.. Can be misunderstood
Well this is awkward.
-
Well this is awkward.
(&^&
-
Do I?
"Both investigations have made it clear the mccanns, are not suspects . I see no evidence if then currently being investigated. Where's the conspiracy in that.
Sceptics believe there is a conspiracy between the tapas
A conspiracy amongst SY not to investigate the mccanns
A conspiracy by successive govt to protect the mccanns..
That's a whole lot if conspiring"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
This was the post of Davel’s you took issue with, and asked for cites
“you are a sceptic ...but try and pretend not to be imo.....you try to make out you are some sort of independent thinker...imo...you are not. There are absolutely loads of cites for sceptics saying those things. Have a look at the site you have reccomended for facts ...CMOMM”
So yes, off to Specsavers you go.
-
This was the post of Davel’s you took issue with, and asked for cites
“you are a sceptic ...but try and pretend not to be imo.....you try to make out you are some sort of independent thinker...imo...you are not. There are absolutely loads of cites for sceptics saying those things. Have a look at the site you have reccomended for facts ...CMOMM”
So yes, off to Specsavers you go.
No, that wasn't the post. Try again. The off to specsavers with you. 8((()*/
-
This was the post of Davel’s you took issue with, and asked for cites
“you are a sceptic ...but try and pretend not to be imo.....you try to make out you are some sort of independent thinker...imo...you are not. There are absolutely loads of cites for sceptics saying those things. Have a look at the site you have reccomended for facts ...CMOMM”
So yes, off to Specsavers you go.
No it wasn't. You are wrong.
-
No it wasn't. You are wrong.
your reply #1203 below was in reponse to the post of Davel’s I highlighted. How am I wrong?
“If you want to make accusations you need to find and quote the cites supporting them, not me. Thems the rules imo”.
Davel’s post that you commented on was full of imos so no cites needed.
IMO.
-
Yes you do... I haven't said all sceptics.. I've said sceptics.
Isn't it amazing even a post in English.. No translation.. Can be misunderstood
"Some"in there somewhere would indicate the unspecified amount so the English you speak of isn't quite up to standard.
-
"Some"in there somewhere would indicate the unspecified amount so the English you speak of isn't quite up to standard.
I think totally accurate would be better. Misunderstandings in spoken English are not uncommon IMO
-
your reply #1203 below was in reponse to the post of Davel’s I highlighted. How am I wrong?
“If you want to make accusations you need to find and quote the cites supporting them, not me. Thems the rules imo”.
Davel’s post that you commented on was full of imos so no cites needed.
IMO.
Flippin' 'eck!
Perhaps a step-by-step explanation will help;
Davel made accusations with no imo's and no cites.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
I asked for cites.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567912#msg567912
He wrote the post you are quoting, telling me to find them myself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567936#msg567936
I replied saying it was his job to provide them, not mine to find them myself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567947#msg567947
-
Flippin' 'eck!
Perhaps a step-by-step explanation will help;
Davel made accusations with no imo's and no cites.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567869#msg567869
I asked for cites.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567912#msg567912
He wrote the post you are quoting, telling me to find them myself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567936#msg567936
I replied saying it was his job to provide them, not mine to find them myself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11042.msg567947#msg567947
shall i alter the post to say...almost all sceptics beleive......perhaps you could tell me which points you dont agree with...i think you may well agree with all the points Ive made. The CMOMM have sent a letter to Sy and the PJ confirming everything ive said. Do you disagree with their conclusions
-
shall i alter the post to say...almost all sceptics beleive......perhaps you could tell me which points you dont agree with...i think you may well agree with all the points Ive made. The CMOMM have sent a letter to Sy and the PJ confirming everything ive said. Do you disagree with their conclusions
An IMO would have got you off the hook. No matter how much supporters want it to be true;
All 'sceptics' don't agree on everything.
All 'sceptics' don't agree with Amaral on everything.
-
An IMO would have got you off the hook. No matter how much supporters want it to be true;
All 'sceptics' don't agree on everything.
All 'sceptics' don't agree with Amaral on everything.
imo wouldnt be true...its a fact that many many sceptics believe all those things...you cant even admit to how many you believe.
How many posts lump sceptics all together...you dont sem to have a problem with that
-
An IMO would have got you off the hook. No matter how much supporters want it to be true;
All 'sceptics' don't agree on everything.
All 'sceptics' don't agree with Amaral on everything.
are you suggesting all supporters beleive that
another of your posts,,,
We all have opinions and the McCann's opinion seems to have been that they had a reason to sue Amaral. They and their supporters can't accept that they were wrong.
no imo...again are you suggesting all supporters feel that way
-
imo wouldnt be true...its a fact that many many sceptics believe all those things...you cant even admit to how many you believe.
How many posts lump sceptics all together...you dont sem to have a problem with that
You're talking about a sample size so small you can't verify your assertion. As usual.
I could say all enablers on here back each other up on everything, despite being super wrong and to the detriment of their own self-respect.
-
You're talking about a sample size so small you can't verify your assertion. As usual.
I could say all enablers on here back each other up on everything, despite being super wrong and to the detriment of their own self-respect.
The very fact the number of sceptics is relatively small makes it easier to verify ....it's a bit pathetic what sceptics want to argue about
-
You're talking about a sample size so small you can't verify your assertion. As usual.
I could say all enablers on here back each other up on everything, despite being super wrong and to the detriment of their own self-respect.
What is an enabler? Is it like a child abuse supporter? What precisely has been enabled and by whom? In your opinion? Why is “enabling” a one-sided thing? Are there no enablers on your side of the fence? I look forward to discussing this concept with you further by enabling you to have this conversation with my probing questions. Yours sincerely, etc.
-
You're talking about a sample size so small you can't verify your assertion. As usual.
I could say all enablers on here back each other up on everything, despite being super wrong and to the detriment of their own self-respect.
Who are the "enablers" here?
-
An IMO would have got you off the hook. No matter how much supporters want it to be true;
All 'sceptics' don't agree on everything.
All 'sceptics' don't agree with Amaral on everything.
Perhaps it would be useful to distil and define what precisely all sceptics DO believe.
Is it nothing more complicated than “The McCanns were up to something” though not one sceptic can actually place their finger on precisely what or agree with each other on any single theory or scenario because they’re all so blatantly daft?
-
imo wouldnt be true...its a fact that many many sceptics believe all those things...you cant even admit to how many you believe.
How many posts lump sceptics all together...you dont sem to have a problem with that
There you go again, asserting something's a fact without offering any evidence whatsoever. It may be a fact in your opinion, but your opinion carries no weight with me.
-
There you go again, asserting something's a fact without offering any evidence whatsoever. It may be a fact in your opinion, but your opinion carries no weight with me.
How,many cites would it take before you accepted it was true? Put a figure on it, then we will start a thread solely for cites until we get to the number you require. With John’s permission. It will give us something to do in the long dark months.
-
I've always considered myself a sceptic because of things I don't believe, rather than those I do believe
-
I've always considered myself a sceptic because of things I don't believe, rather than those I do believe
in reality we are all sceptics...theres lots I dont beleive
-
I've always considered myself a sceptic because of things I don't believe, rather than those I do believe
Which makes 'sceptics beliefs' a bit of a non-starter.
-
Which makes 'sceptics beliefs' a bit of a non-starter.
In your opinion... Of course sceptics share certain core beliefs ..it seems they just don't like to admit it
-
How,many cites would it take before you accepted it was true? Put a figure on it, then we will start a thread solely for cites until we get to the number you require. With John’s permission. It will give us something to do in the long dark months.
Now that winters here can spring be anything but, be not far behind,bright side VS.
-
Now that winters here can spring be anything but, be not far behind,bright side VS.
ahhh, can't beat a bit of Percy. (Shelley, not Sledge)
-
In your opinion... Of course sceptics share certain core beliefs ..it seems they just don't like to admit it
Whether people's core beliefs affect their approach to the Madeleine McCann case is an interesting question, but it's unlikely to be answered here imo.
-
Whether people's core beliefs affect their approach to the Madeleine McCann case is an interesting question, but it's unlikely to be answered here imo.
again a language misunderstanding...core beliefs connected to the evidence in this case
-
again a language misunderstanding...core beliefs connected to the evidence in this case
Core beliefs aren't specific in the way you suggest;
Core beliefs are basic beliefs about ourselves, other people, and the world we live in. They are things we hold to be absolute truths deep down, underneath all our “surface” thoughts. Essentially, core beliefs determine how you perceive and interpret the world. They sit in the basement of your mind.
https://betterrelationships.org.au/well-being/core-beliefs-self-acceptance/
-
Core beliefs aren't specific in the way you suggest;
Core beliefs are basic beliefs about ourselves, other people, and the world we live in. They are things we hold to be absolute truths deep down, underneath all our “surface” thoughts. Essentially, core beliefs determine how you perceive and interpret the world. They sit in the basement of your mind.
https://betterrelationships.org.au/well-being/core-beliefs-self-acceptance/
youve given one defintion of core beliefs......the use of the term relating to a specific are is quite legitimite.......posters on here share core beleifs relating to the case
-
ahhh, can't beat a bit of Percy. (Shelley, not Sledge)
Percy Sledge is good too.
-
youve given one defintion of core beliefs......the use of the term relating to a specific are is quite legitimite.......posters on here share core beleifs relating to the case
Yes. A core belief of all sceptics is that the McCanns lied in their statements, for example.
-
Yes. A core belif of all sceptics is that the McCanns lied in their statements, for example.
belif - a korean skincare product.
-
belif - a korean skincare product.
Is it? Fancy that! Is it what you use to keep you looking so young?
-
belif - a korean skincare product.
no its belief...as in the core beliefs shared by Sceptics
-
no its belief...as in the core beliefs shared by Sceptics
Most beliefs are nebulous.
-
Most beliefs are nebulous.
i think the core beliefs of sceptics are quite well defined
-
i think the core beliefs of sceptics are quite well defined
All sceptics? And all of their 'core beliefs'? And isn't that something of a paradox; aren't sceptics known for not believing?
-
All sceptics? And all of their 'core beliefs'? And isn't that something of a paradox; aren't sceptics known for not believing?
In one post recentley ive reffered to the as Sceptics.....which would be a little more accurate. This group is selectively sceptical....thye believe that which suits them with very little question
-
In one post recentley ive reffered to the as Sceptics.....which would be a little more accurate. This group is selectively sceptical....thye believe that which suits them with very little question
So there's a subset of members here who adhere stoically and blindly to certain beliefs? I have you right.
-
So there's a subset of members here who adhere stoically and blindly to certain beliefs? I have you right.
you dont have me right...never mentioned stoically and blindly
-
You see similar divisions of opinions in all these cases. And I guess it's no different to life in general eg religion and politics. I've always thought it interesting how people arrive at totally different conclusions each convinced they're right *%87
-
You see similar divisions of opinions in all these cases. And I guess it's no different to life in general eg religion and politics. I've always thought it interesting how people arrive at totally different conclusions each convinced they're right *%87
me too.....as Ive said its how each person interprets and understands each peice of evidence
-
you dont have me right...never mentioned stoically and blindly
I'm not explaining those two words for you.
-
All sceptics? And all of their 'core beliefs'? And isn't that something of a paradox; aren't sceptics known for not believing?
sceptics all seem to believe in the dogs. In fact I would describe their belief as almost religious in its unquestioning devotion. They also seem to believe Amaral was a decent honourable cop, wronged by the system.
-
sceptics all seem to believe in the dogs. In fact I would describe their belief as almost religious in its unquestioning devotion. They also seem to believe Amaral was a decent honourable cop, wronged by the system.
Stereotypical thinking is a way of thinking whereby we use relatively stable and simplified images of social groups, people, events or phenomena. You continue to do it because it simplifies a contrary standpoint for you; it's an attempt at comprehension, but actually it's lazy, rigid and wholly inaccurate.
-
You see similar divisions of opinions in all these cases. And I guess it's no different to life in general eg religion and politics. I've always thought it interesting how people arrive at totally different conclusions each convinced they're right *%87
The trick is to examine the evidence people are using. In many cases they are using none or quoting what others think. If no evidence is offered then they are just speculating.
-
Stereotypical thinking is a way of thinking whereby we use relatively stable and simplified images of social groups, people, events or phenomena. You continue to do it because it simplifies a contrary standpoint for you; it's an attempt at comprehension, but actually it's lazy, rigid and wholly inaccurate.
please tell me why it is wholly inaccurate to say that sceptics believe thr McCanns lied in their statements, revere the dog alerts and think Amaral is a jolly decent bloke who was badly wronged?
-
Stereotypical thinking is a way of thinking whereby we use relatively stable and simplified images of social groups, people, events or phenomena. You continue to do it because it simplifies a contrary standpoint for you; it's an attempt at comprehension, but actually it's lazy, rigid and wholly inaccurate.
in this case its quite accurate...so accurate that sometimes I can predict what a poster will be post before the post appears. Can i add...they believe Sy are useless as another core belief
-
please tell me why it is wholly inaccurate to say that sceptics believe thr McCanns lied in their statements, revere the dog alerts and think Amaral is a jolly decent bloke who was badly wronged?
Because you're lumping everyone together. It's convenient, I get it, but it's lazy and meaningless.
-
The trick is to examine the evidence people are using. In many cases they are using none or quoting what others think. If no evidence is offered then they are just speculating.
in your opinion. in your opinion the statements are pretty well totally accurate...there is strong evidence to suggest that isnt true but you ignore it. You believe the dogs alerted to what they are trained to alert to...no evidence of that..
-
Because you're lumping everyone together. It's convenient, I get it, but it's lazy and meaningless.
It isnt just one or two posters lumping everyone together...gunit herself does it constantly by the use of the word supporters...its not lazy and its not meaningless
-
in this case its quite accurate...so accurate that sometimes I can predict what a poster will be post before the post appears. Can i add...they believe Sy are useless as another core belief
You could say you're the Uri Geller of the David Icke forum with those soothsaying skills. It's uncanny.
-
Because you're lumping everyone together. It's convenient, I get it, but it's lazy and meaningless.
It may be lazy, it may be meaningless but it is actually largely true. Which sceptic here thinks the dog alerts were meaningless, that Amaral was a dishonest cop not very good at his job and that the McCanns were truthful in their statements? Come on, name them.
-
It may be lazy, it may be meaningless but it is actually largely true. Which sceptic here thinks the dog alerts were meaningless, that Amaral was a dishonest cop not very good at his job and that the McCanns were truthful in their statements? Come on, name them.
sceptics believe cipriano is guilty ....supporters think there may have been a miscarriage of justice
-
sceptics believe cipriano is guilty ....supporters think there may have been a miscarriage of justice
See you're a sceptic at heart.
-
I see it as a spectrum with extremes at either end and overlap in the middle 8(>((
-
It may be lazy, it may be meaningless but it is actually largely true. Which sceptic here thinks the dog alerts were meaningless, that Amaral was a dishonest cop not very good at his job and that the McCanns were truthful in their statements? Come on, name them.
No, it's just lazy and meaningless. Or is it an attempt to set the agenda? If I ask you what you believe you can answer as you wish. If I tell you what you believe you're diverted into denials and corrections.
-
See you're a sceptic at heart.
im a sceptic with a small s as opposed to a Sceptic
-
It may be lazy, it may be meaningless but it is actually largely true. Which sceptic here thinks the dog alerts were meaningless, that Amaral was a dishonest cop not very good at his job and that the McCanns were truthful in their statements? Come on, name them.
You're still distilling this down to suit your narrow view.
Consider the sample size. There's feckin 7 of us, FFS. Broaden it out, what if, heaven forbid, there were 300 of us (SSPPPAAARRTAAAAA). You couldn't possibly distil us down to 3 main beliefs. There'd be all sorts of beliefs. You'd end up with diametrically parallel, ludicrous versions of the Jewish bloodlines for a start.
-
You're still distilling this down to suit your narrow view.
Consider the sample size. There's feckin 7 of us, FFS. Broaden it out, what if, heaven forbid, there were 300 of us (SSPPPAAARRTAAAAA). You couldn't possibly distil us down to 3 main beliefs. There'd be all sorts of beliefs. You'd end up with diametrically parallel, ludicrous versions of the Jewish bloodlines for a start.
when you distil down to core beliefs there are basically two opposing sides. Then in the centre are a around four who dislike the mccans but dont subscribe to the accident theory
-
You're still distilling this down to suit your narrow view.
Consider the sample size. There's feckin 7 of us, FFS. Broaden it out, what if, heaven forbid, there were 300 of us (SSPPPAAARRTAAAAA). You couldn't possibly distil us down to 3 main beliefs. There'd be all sorts of beliefs. You'd end up with diametrically parallel, ludicrous versions of the Jewish bloodlines for a start.
Why on earth couldn’t you possibly distil it down to 3 main beliefs? Or 4 or 5? You can do it for supporters so why not sceptics?
-
No, it's just lazy and meaningless. Or is it an attempt to set the agenda? If I ask you what you believe you can answer as you wish. If I tell you what you believe you're diverted into denials and corrections.
Go on then , tell me what I believe.
-
Why on earth couldn’t you possibly distil it down to 3 main beliefs? Or 4 or 5? You can do it for supporters so why not sceptics?
You're not distilling me down to one of your (in)comprehensible, convenient tropes. No way sister.
-
Go on then , tell me what I believe.
I think that would be arrogant of me, even if I cared what you do or don't believe.
-
You're not distilling me down to one of your (in)comprehensible, convenient tropes. No way sister.
Oh dear, I think I touched a bit of a nerve. I know from your posts what you think of the McCanns , that the dog alerts were highly significant and that Amaral is a top geezer.
-
I think that would be arrogant of me, even if I cared what you do or don't believe.
I’ve made it very clear what I believe, why would I mind if you reminded me?
-
Oh dear, I think I touched a bit of a nerve. I know from your posts what you think the McCanns, that the dog alerts were highly significant and that Amaral is a top geezer.
Is that due to your supposed skill in understanding the hidden meanings behind posts or do you have cites?
-
Is that due to your supposed skill in understanding the hidden meanings behind posts or do you have cites?
The General doesn’t do hidden meanings, he calls a spade a spade, unlike yourself. I have not misrepresented his views as I’m sure he will confirm in due course. In the meantime all his posts are available to search if you really need proof.
-
sceptics all seem to believe in the dogs. In fact I would describe their belief as almost religious in its unquestioning devotion. They also seem to believe Amaral was a decent honourable cop, wronged by the system.
Tripe.
-
The General doesn’t do hidden meanings, he calls a spade a spade, unlike yourself. I have not misrepresented his views as I’m sure he will confirm in due course. In the meantime all his posts are available to search if you really need proof.
Why are you talking to me about the General? He can think what he likes and he can answer for himself just as I do.
I have no intention of answering for him.
-
Why are you talking to me about the General? He can think what he likes and he can answer for himself just as I do.
I have no intention of answering for him.
Because the post of mine you questioned regarding my understanding of posts was addressed to him of course!
-
Tripe.
No thanks, I’m a vegetarian.
-
Indeed! all made up for their own entertainment. Fun to be had about a missing child.
There are many theories, some of which are not allowed to be discussed here in this forum, which would dispel the ludicrous claims by two 'supporter' trolls about what sceptics think.
You do not know what we think as individuals, pretending you do is hilarious!
Of course you take no pleasure or enjoyment in posting on this forum, or of being rude to sceptics but you are compelled to do so out of your deep empathy and concern for Madeleine McCann, in the belief that you are helping her achieve justice. LOL.
-
sceptics all seem to believe in the dogs. In fact I would describe their belief as almost religious in its unquestioning devotion. They also seem to believe Amaral was a decent honourable cop, wronged by the system.
I believe in the dogs certainly and more specifically the GNR sniffer dogs but I don't for a minute believe that the cadaver and CSI dogs found anything whatsoever relevant to Maddie.
I also think Gonc was a successful cop who believed in what he did but was let down badly by his hierarchy for political reasons.
-
Yeah I just imagine the police going whatever when the cadaver dog and not the blood dog alerted to their clothes.
-
Yeah I just imagine the police going whatever when the cadaver dog and not the blood dog alerted to their clothes.
Well apparently it means absolutely nothing if that dog alerts to someones clothes. It makes me wonder why they would bother to screen them though.
-
Well apparently it means absolutely nothing if that dog alerts to someones clothes. It makes me wonder why they would bother to screen them though.
Handler’s got to earn his money somehow.
-
Handler’s got to earn his money somehow.
Why would any organisation pay someone to look for and find information which is completely useless?
-
Why would any organisation pay someone to look for and find information which is completely useless?
who's idea was it to check the clothes
-
Why would any organisation pay someone to look for and find information which is completely useless?
The job of the dog is to help find evidence
-
Why would any organisation pay someone to look for and find information which is completely useless?
the info was useful in helping to build a case against the prime suspects
-
The job of the dog is to help find evidence
So alerting to clothes was evidence?
-
So alerting to clothes was evidence?
I don't think that's what Davel said is it?
-
So alerting to clothes was evidence?
Grime said not... It tells the police where to look for evidence..
Grime said in his CV he trains dogs to help recover forensic evidence
-
Grime said not... It tells the police where to look for evidence..
Grime said in his CV he trains dogs to help recover forensic evidence
My CV says I used to train cats to tamper with vending machines - what's your point?
-
My CV says I used to train cats to tamper with vending machines - what's your point?
I think Davel is trying to say the only evidence that's useful is forensic evidence. In that case what forensic evidence were they hoping to recover from the family's clothes?
-
I think Davel is trying to say the only evidence that's useful is forensic evidence. In that case what forensic evidence were they hoping to recover from the family's clothes?
I think its obvious to all you are wrong and thats not what I think...there are lots of types of evidence...vrd dogs barking isnt one...imo the alerts being evidence is a sceptic core belief and the major reason they have reached the wrong conclusion
-
I think its obvious to all you are wrong and thats not what I think...there are lots of types of evidence...vrd dogs barking isnt one...imo the alerts being evidence is a sceptic core belief and the major reason they have reached the wrong conclusion
Well don't be shy, just explain the purpose of screening clothes.
-
Well don't be shy, just explain the purpose of screening clothes.
Whos idea was it... I dont see the point... Was it the idea of the PJ
I was just reading Grimes statement... He says when passing the mccanns car the dogs behaviour changed substantially
Didn't the dog initially ignore the car.... What is grime on about
-
Well don't be shy, just explain the purpose of screening clothes.
In the hope and expectation that they would alert thus putting pressure on the McCanns to confess, IMO.
-
Whos idea was it... I dont see the point... Was it the idea of the PJ
I was just reading Grimes statement... He says when passing the mccanns car the dogs behaviour changed substantially
Didn't the dog initially ignore the car.... What is grime on about
You may not see the point, but there must have been one. There would have been no point in carrying out a pointless exercise. So what forensic evidence were the clothes going to provide?
-
You may not see the point, but there must have been one. There would have been no point in carrying out a pointless exercise. So what forensic evidence were the clothes going to provide?
you are avoiding the question...whos idea was it to screen the clothes...you dont know do you
-
you are avoiding the question...whos idea was it to screen the clothes...you dont know do you
No, my friend, you are. You insist that only forensic evidence is useful, but it was never going to be detected on clothes. The only possible evidence from screening clothes was circumstantial evidence, and that's what they were looking for and that's what they got.
-
No, my friend, you are. You insist that only forensic evidence is useful, but it was never going to be detected on clothes. The only possible evidence from screening clothes was circumstantial evidence, and that's what they were looking for and that's what they got.
absolute codswallop....i have not insisted only forensic evidence is useful...
The alerts have no evidential reliability...circumsatntial or otherwise.
I suspect it was the inept PJ who decided to screen the clothes...and the mccanns car
-
Well don't be shy, just explain the purpose of screening clothes.
As Keela was the first dog deployed to screen the clothes in the gym, it stands to reason that minute quantities of blood were being looked for. That was Keela's sole purpose during training. It's unclear why Eddie was then deployed to check the clothing again, given he hadn't alerted to any of the clothing during the earlier VRD screening exercise at the rented villa.
-
It's obvious why Keela went first because both dogs alert to blood. Only Eddie alerts to cadaver scent so he had to go second.
The dog will alert to the presence of cadaver scent whether it is at source or some distance away from a deposition site. This enables the use of the dog to identify the venting or exhaust channels of the scent through fissures in bedrock or watercourses. A geophysical survey of the area will then reduce the size of the search area. The dog may be used to screen clothing, vehicles or property in a suitable environment.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
-
It's obvious why Keela went first because both dogs alert to blood. Only Eddie alerts to cadaver scent so he had to go second.
The dog will alert to the presence of cadaver scent whether it is at source or some distance away from a deposition site. This enables the use of the dog to identify the venting or exhaust channels of the scent through fissures in bedrock or watercourses. A geophysical survey of the area will then reduce the size of the search area. The dog may be used to screen clothing, vehicles or property in a suitable environment.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
Eddie was always deployed first, except for the clothing screening which took place in the gym. As Eddie hadn't alerted to any of the clothing at the rented villa during earlier screening, why was he deployed again at the gym in the absence of any alerts from Keela?
-
Yes and that's for obvious reasons because they want to know if there is cadaver scent at the crime scene in a suspicious missing person case. As there was then they can take items belonging to the people who lived there to test for cadaver scent so now they rule out blood first on clothes because if Eddie then alerts they know it is for cadaver scent. That is why cadaver dogs are used and the police have a prime unknown suspect carrying a deep sleeping child who the Smith family believe was Madeleine McCann.
-
Yes and that's for obvious reasons because they want to know if there is cadaver scent at the crime scene. As there was then they can take items belonging to the people who lived there to test for cadaver scent so now they rule out blood first on clothes.
The chain of evidence between clothing/personal effects in 5A & the gymnasium had been broken several times by August 2007 when the specialist dogs arrived.
-
The same family lived in both properties with their belongings so police should further investigate leads.
Cadaver scent cannot readily be removed by cleaning as the compounds adhere to surfaces. The scent can be 'masked' by bleach and other strong smelling odours but the dog's olfactory system is able to isolate the odours and identify specific compounds' and mixes. Cadaver scent contamination may be transferred in numerous scenarios. Any contact with a cadaver which is then passed to any other material may be recognised by the dog causing a 'trigger' indication.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
-
Why would any organisation pay someone to look for and find information which is completely useless?
Psychological pressure applied hoping for a confession.
-
Psychological pressure applied hoping for a confession.
There are two reasons why not;
1. They hadn't reached a point where they needed to do that.
2. They were working under the direction of Harrison and Grime. They wouldn't agree to carry out screening of clothing unless it was to gather evidence.
-
There are two reasons why not;
1. They hadn't reached a point where they needed to do that.
2. They were working under the direction of Harrison and Grime. They wouldn't agree to carry out screening of clothing unless it was to gather evidence.
Assumptions.
-
There are two reasons why not;
1. They hadn't reached a point where they needed to do that.
2. They were working under the direction of Harrison and Grime. They wouldn't agree to carry out screening of clothing unless it was to gather evidence.
Deployed for a giggle, perhaps.
Always amuses me how 'rigorous' the 'sniffer dogs' are when corroborating front egress abduction, yet seemingly useless and frivolous when potentially corroborating cadaver / DNA. Why is that?
Maybe some dogs are picky and moody, 'I'll show these fckers, I'll bark in every corner of this gaff, just for the craic'.
The Washington Sniper was apprehended with the aid of exceptional tracker dogs; so exceptional in fact, that the Tracker Dog community refused to believe it - yet here we are, the lead detective corroborating their efficacy and two dudes in jail.
-
There are two reasons why not;
1. They hadn't reached a point where they needed to do that.
2. They were working under the direction of Harrison and Grime. They wouldn't agree to carry out screening of clothing unless it was to gather evidence.
You are making assumptions . You don't know who's idea it was to screen the clothes and the mccanns car. The whole dog deployment was an absolute fiasco imo. I quoted grime yesterday saying Eddie showed an immediate interest in the car.... A car he later came to know was the mccanns.
The fact is Eddie ignored the car until he was called back and directed to take an interest and grime must have known it was the mccanns car as it was plastered with posters.
Make of that what you will... But those are the facts
-
You are making assumptions . You don't know who's idea it was to screen the clothes and the mccanns car. The whole dog deployment was an absolute fiasco imo. I quoted grime yesterday saying Eddie showed an immediate interest in the car.... A car he later came to know was the mccanns.
The fact is Eddie ignored the car until he was called back and directed to take an interest and grime must have known it was the mccanns car as it was plastered with posters.
Make of that what you will... But those are the facts
You deffo need to ring Grime and tell him he's a charlatan and his dogs are in on it.
-
You deffo need to ring Grime and tell him he's a charlatan and his dogs are in on it.
I don't think he's a charlatan at all. All the evidence Ive seen points to him being a professional trying to promote him and his dogs abilities...
All the evidence I've seen shows the alerts are not reliable.
All the evidence I've seen shows Eddie had a very limited track record.. Despite sone promoting him as having helped solve 200 cases and never been wring once. That is pure fantasy
-
I dint think he's a charlatan at all. All the evidence Ive seen points to him being a professional trying to promote him and his dogs abilities...
All the evidence I've seen showsvthe alerts are not reliable.
All the evidence I've seen shows Eddie had a very limited track record.. Despite sone orimoting him as having helped solve 200 cases and never been wring once. That is pure fantasy
Well, with your self-proclaimed expertise on the subject of evidence you should find it easy to explain why the UK's National Search Specialist and the UK's top dog trainer and handler would screen clothes if the results were of no use to the investigation. So far you've been unable to do that.
-
Well, with your self-proclaimed expertise on the subject of evidence you should find it easy to explain why the UK's National Search Specialist and the UK's top dog trainer and handler would screen clothes if the results were of no use to the investigation. So far you've been unable to do that.
Because he was asked to by the PJ
-
Because he was asked to by the PJ
Who brought the dogs in?
Edit: could be a follow up song for the Baha Men.
-
Who brought the dogs in?
mark harrison and he was quite specific where he suggested searching...and what tehy were looking for...no mention of teh mccanns car
-
mark harrison and he was quite specific where he suggested searching...and what tehy were looking for...no mention of teh mccanns car
Didn't see him complain at any time, the world renowned expert Mark Harrison, as a minimum, tacitly agreeing with the scope of the searches; more likely overseeing, but allowing the subject matter expert, whom he knew and trusted, to crack on.
-
Because he was asked to by the PJ
If Grime was asked to do something which was a waste of time he would have said no.
-
If Grime was asked to do something which was a waste of time he would have said no.
I very much doubt that.
-
If Grime was asked to do something which was a waste of time he would have said no.
...thats absolutely laughable..... You feel you can speak directly for Grime..... im not really interested in your fantasies re the dogs...its whats happening in the real world thats important
-
...thats absolutely laughable..... You feel you can speak directly for Grime..... im not really interested in your fantasies re the dogs...its whats happening in the real world thats important
Are you suggesting that he was coerced in some way, or he didn't apply his usual rigour, and to what end?
To fit the McCann's up as part of a wider consipracy?
For personal kudos and financial gain, despite him already being the go to man?
What is your 'real world view'?
-
There are two reasons why not;
1. They hadn't reached a point where they needed to do that.
2. They were working under the direction of Harrison and Grime. They wouldn't agree to carry out screening of clothing unless it was to gather evidence.
That is your opinion, but I don't agree with it.
-
If Grime was asked to do something which was a waste of time he would have said no.
A confession isn't going to be a waste of time.
-
I very much doubt that.
Especially if he gets paid for it.
-
Are you suggesting that he was coerced in some way, or he didn't apply his usual rigour, and to what end?
To fit the McCann's up as part of a wider consipracy?
For personal kudos and financial gain, despite him already being the go to man?
What is your 'real world view'?
my real world view is that shared by the experts...recently the Gilroy podcast confirmed it. the alerts are valueless as evidence. The claim they are circumstantail evidence has no support from any expert
It was a portuguese case...were the portuguese paying for the dogs.....imo....Grime would have searched where he was asked to search. If someone has evidence that is untrue lets hear it.
-
Especially if he gets paid for it.
He's going to professionally compromise himself for minimal financial gain?
What are you saying? He'll deliberately 'cue' the dogs to impress everyone? On video?
You need to ring the fella too.
-
this is in grimes staement..
The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.
two points...the dog initially showed no interest in the car and walked past it........this fact is totally at odds to grimes claim.
Grime implies at the time he didnt know it was the mccanns car...yet it was covered in posters....this fact is totally at odds to grimes claim
-
He's going to professionally compromise himself for minimal financial gain?
What are you saying? He'll deliberately 'cue' the dogs to impress everyone? On video?
You need to ring the fella too.
Martin Grime is an expert grandstander.
-
He's going to professionally compromise himself for minimal financial gain?
What are you saying? He'll deliberately 'cue' the dogs to impress everyone? On video?
You need to ring the fella too.
Grime must have thought the video was quite impressive as he used it as promotional material to gain a lucrative contract in Jersey
-
my real world view is that shared by the experts...recently the Gilroy podcast confirmed it. the alerts are valueless as evidence. The claim they are circumstantail evidence has no support from any expert
It was a portuguese case...were the portuguese paying for the dogs.....imo....Grime would have searched where he was asked to search. If someone has evidence that is untrue lets hear it.
"The claim they are circumstantial evidence has no support from any expert" Who has agreed with that for there are cases that have shown you are wrong.
-
Grime must have thought the video was quite impressive as he used it as promotional material to gain a lucrative contract in Jersey
And we all know what happened there.
-
my real world view is that shared by the experts...recently the Gilroy podcast confirmed it. the alerts are valueless as evidence. The claim they are circumstantail evidence has no support from any expert
It was a portuguese case...were the portuguese paying for the dogs.....imo....Grime would have searched where he was asked to search. If someone has evidence that is untrue lets hear it.
He will have searched where it happened like every potential crime. He's not going to search the next resort along on his demand, he's going to search where he's directed. By Harrison.
What are you saying, bearing in mind this is before Snr Gonzo (top cop) published his findings? That somehow he also had the abilities of soothsayer, just like you, and got the dogs to search in the place where they could best fit the McCann's up?
-
"The claim they are circumstantial evidence has no support from any expert" Who has agreed with that for there are cases that have shown you are wrong.
Grime has made it clear the alerts have no evidential value
-
He will have searched where it happened like every potential crime. He's not going to search the next resort along on his demand, he's going to search where he's directed. By Harrison.
What are you saying, bearing in mind this is before Snr Gonzo (top cop) published his findings? That somehow he also had the abilities of soothsayer, just like you, and got the dogs to search in the place where they could best fit the McCann's up?
where is the evidence that harrison suggested the car should be screened. Harrison never mentioned the car in his stateemnt of where the dogs should search
-
"The claim they are circumstantial evidence has no support from any expert" Who has agreed with that for there are cases that have shown you are wrong.
And others that have shown that Davel is right. So nothing to be relied upon.
-
where is the evidence that harrison suggested the car should be screened. Harrison never mentioned the car in his staeemnt of where the dogs should search
So Harrison oversaw the operation, but didn't bother his arse to oversee the lot full of cars being transported and positioned, the most complex and time-consuming part of the process. Pack it in.
Look at the extent of the search, it was extensive.
-
So Harrison oversaw the operation, but didn't bother his arse to oversee the lot full of cars being transported and positioned, the most complex and time-consuming part of the process. Pack it in.
Look at the extent of the search, it was extensive.
Did it actually find anything?
-
So Harrison oversaw the operation, but didn't bother his arse to oversee the lot full of cars being transported and positioned, the most complex and time-consuming part of the process. Pack it in.
Look at the extent of the search, it was extensive.
whos decision was it to search the car......Harrisson was quite specific where he suggested the dogs search...the only vehicle he mentioned was Murats
-
...thats absolutely laughable..... You feel you can speak directly for Grime..... im not really interested in your fantasies re the dogs...its whats happening in the real world thats important
I have no reason to believe that Grime would use his dogs if nothing could be gained from doing so. Anyone who says he would do it for other than sound operational reasons is, in my opinion, libelling him.
-
I have no reason to believe that Grime would use his dogs if nothing could be gained from doing so. Anyone who says he would do it for other than sound operational reasons is, in my opinion, libelling him.
They'll insinuate all sorts of malpractice, but haven't got the cojones to say it.
-
They'll insinuate all sorts of malpractice, but haven't got the cojones to say it.
om more than happy to say what i think....i have in the pst...but the posts have been removed
-
I have no reason to believe that Grime would use his dogs if nothing could be gained from doing so. Anyone who says he would do it for other than sound operational reasons is, in my opinion, libelling him.
he did it at the request of the PJ imo
-
om more than happy to say what i think....i have in the pst...but the posts have been removed
Well stop dancing around it and get your kecks off!
-
he did it at the request of the PJ imo
The fact remains that Harrison and Grime agreed to screen the clothes and you are unable to explain why they would do that if nothing could be learned from it.
The collected items of clothing were set out individually with the agreement and under the directions provided by the British technicians, the dogs having previously covered the space where the clothing was laid out.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm
-
Well stop dancing around it and get your kecks off!
Ill leave you to it....we all have our opinions and its pointless arguing.
-
The fact remains that Harrison and Grime agreed to screen the clothes and you are unable to explain why they would do that if nothing could be learned from it.
The collected items of clothing were set out individually with the agreement and under the directions provided by the British technicians, the dogs having previously covered the space where the clothing was laid out.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm
so it was with the agreemnet not under the direction of....as ive said.....grime agreed to the request by the PJ...you can read ineo that anything you like,,..
perhaps you could expalin the following glaring inconsistency from Grime...
this is in grimes staement..
The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.
two points...the dog initially showed no interest in the car and walked past it........this fact is totally at odds to grimes claim.
Grime implies at the time he didnt know it was the mccanns car...yet it was covered in posters....this fact is totally at odds to grimes claim
-
so it was with the agreemnet not under the direction of....as ive said.....grime agreed to the request by the PJ...you can read ineo that anything you like,,..
perhaps you could expalin the following glaring inconsistency from Grime...
this is in grimes staement..
The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.
two points...the dog initially showed no interest in the car and walked past it........this fact is totally at odds to grimes claim.
Grime implies at the time he didnt know it was the mccanns car...yet it was covered in posters....this fact is totally at odds to grimes claim
I think I've made my point which hasn't been refuted.
-
I think I've made my point which hasn't been refuted.
I dont think you have,...but I think Ive made mine re grimes comments on the car which you cant seem to explain
-
I dont think you have,...but I think Ive made mine re grimes comments on the car which you cant seem to explain
OK, let's do this. Show me what you mean. [rolls sleeves up like James Herriot just prior to sticking his entire arm up a cow's arse].
-
OK, let's do this. Show me what you mean. [rolls sleeves up like James Herriot just prior to sticking his entire arm up a cow's arse].
Grime states in english...no room for transaltion errors...
The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.
He makes two points which appear to be patently untrue......why I dont know. Whats the expalnation...can we therefore take at face value other things he has said
-
Grime states in english...no room for transaltion errors...
The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.
He makes two points which appear to be patently untrue......why I dont know. Whats the expalnation...can we therefore take at face value other things he has said
No, show James Herriot the images or video of the car 'plastered in posters' and show me how Grime clairvoyantly transmitted to the PJ he was going to start sniffing around in other areas.
-
No, show James Herriot the images or video of the car 'plastered in posters' and show me how Grime clairvoyantly transmitted to the PJ he was going to start sniffing around in other areas.
most have already seen it but just for you i will see what i can
https://youtu.be/FTF4JTLeOWA
watch from the start...at 1.13 eddie runs straight past the mccanns car,,,the one with the posters stuck to the widow...and has to be called back. Yet Grime claims
When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.
what grime claims isnt true
-
most have already seen it but just for you i will see what i can
https://youtu.be/FTF4JTLeOWA
watch from the start...at 1.13 eddie runs straight past the mccanns car,,,the one with the posters stuck to the widow...and has to be called back. Yet Grime claims
When passing a
vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially.
what grime claims isnt true
2.59 Demonstrable change in the behaviour of the dog, then an alert. Cuts both ways.....to quote Gloria Estefan.
-
2.59 Demonstrable change in the behaviour of the dog, then an alert. Cuts both ways.....to quote Gloria Estefan.
I dint think it does... The BS detector just registered a max
-
Grime has made it clear the alerts have no evidential value
All aspects of a circumstantial evidence case taken on their own are not "evidential" yet perpetrators are still found guilty in "circumstantial evidence" cases.
-
And others that have shown that Davel is right. So nothing to be relied upon.
Yes can't be relied on on their own, but in a complete chain of circumstantial evidences they will contribute to the total evidence.
-
I have no reason to believe that Grime would use his dogs if nothing could be gained from doing so. Anyone who says he would do it for other than sound operational reasons is, in my opinion, libelling him.
Tough luck. IMO Grime being a policeman is allowed to set up "sting" operations ruses etc in order to elicit a confession. Apparently the police are allowed to lie when questioning a suspect. Pretending to have more evidence than they really do have is allowed.
-
All aspects of a circumstantial evidence case taken on their own are not "evidential" yet perpetrators are still found guilty in "circumstantial evidence" cases.
circumstantial evidence surely is evidential
-
Tough luck. IMO Grime being a policeman is allowed to set up "sting" operations ruses etc in order to elicit a confession. Apparently the police are allowed to lie when questioning a suspect. Pretending to have more evidence than they really do have is allowed.
Good point. It’s also a good reason why dog alerts on their own should never be allowed as evidence in court.
-
circumstantial evidence surely is evidential
Each part isn't but it is or can judged to be in its entirety.
-
Each part isn't but it is or can judged to be in its entirety.
Circumstantial is evidence ...not proof but evidence
-
Circumstantial is evidence ...not proof but evidence
Each circumstantial piece is then collated by the prosecution to build a case or not as the case maybe.If you watch the Fleming case on i player,there's no body,no weapon, its all circumstantial added together it was enough to convince the jury.
-
Tough luck. IMO Grime being a policeman is allowed to set up "sting" operations ruses etc in order to elicit a confession. Apparently the police are allowed to lie when questioning a suspect. Pretending to have more evidence than they really do have is allowed.
Not sure on the lying bit,just been watching 24 hrs in police custody,the police set two suspects against each other and they squealed like stuck pig's,both found guilty of murder.
-
Each circumstantial piece is then collated by the prosecution to build a case or not as the case maybe.If you watch the Fleming case on i player,there's no body,no weapon, its all circumstantial added together it was enough to convince the jury.
each piece of circumstantial evidence is a thin strand...but woven together they make a strong cable
-
Good point. It’s also a good reason why dog alerts on their own should never be allowed as evidence in court.
What if they find the body in that location?
-
Tough luck. IMO Grime being a policeman is allowed to set up "sting" operations ruses etc in order to elicit a confession. Apparently the police are allowed to lie when questioning a suspect. Pretending to have more evidence than they really do have is allowed.
Grime's reputation rested on him using his dogs honestly.
-
Grime's reputation rested on him using his dogs honestly.
His honesty and professional integrity has been brought in to question by a couple of members here today.
(Yeh, but what about all you sceptics bringing the McCann's hones......bluerghhhh.....BBLLEUURGGHH)
But this was just a guy going about his business, doing the job he'd been asked to do. 10 years serving his country, many, many years training dogs for enforcement purposes.....
-
His honesty and professional integrity has been brought in to question by a couple of members here today.
(Yeh, but what about all you sceptics bringing the McCann's hones......bluerghhhh.....BBLLEUURGGHH)
But this was just a guy going about his business, doing the job he'd been asked to do. 10 years serving his country, many, many years training dogs for enforcement purposes.....
so ten years...and supposedly the best in the business. What actual achievements re his contribution to solving cases and finding evidence...there seems to be very...very little...next to nothing
-
so ten years...and supposedly the best in the business. What actual achievements re his contribution to solving cases and finding evidence...there seems to be very...very little...next to nothing
Training dogs for all manner of enforcement purposes.
- jealousy will get you nowhere. You'd love to be the 'go to guy', like Marty Grime.
-
so ten years...and supposedly the best in the business. What actual achievements re his contribution to solving cases and finding evidence...there seems to be very...very little...next to nothing
Then we have 7 yrs by the supposed best in the business getting where exactly?
-
Then we have 7 yrs by the supposed best in the business getting where exactly?
the road to nowheresville??
-
What if they find the body in that location?
Which part of “dog alerts on their own” are you not understanding?
-
Grime's reputation rested on him using his dogs honestly.
With no body in evidence his honest handling in such cases can never to confirmed. Accept nothing. Believe no one. Confirm everything, or does that only apply to people YOU suspect of dishonesty?
-
Circumstantial is evidence ...not proof but evidence
"Circumstantial is evidence" isn't even English, so how can it be "not proof but evidence".
A complete chain of circumstantial evidences may become evidence that proves a case beyond reasonable doubt.
-
What if they find the body in that location?
In which case the body becomes the evidence not the dog alert.
-
Which part of “dog alerts on their own” are you not understanding?
So what if they alert in a place where the body used to be, and are then proved correct?
-
So what if they alert in a place where the body used to be, and are then proved correct?
Then and only then can the dog alerts be confirmed. Tis not rocket science!
-
With no body in evidence his honest handling in such cases can never to confirmed. Accept nothing. Believe no one. Confirm everything, or does that only apply to people YOU suspect of dishonesty?
I have checked Grime's history and his actions since 2007. I found nothing to suggest he behaved dishonestly in Praia da Luz or anywhere else. Common sense suggests he had everything to lose and nothing to gain by doing so. Suggesting that he was dishonest with no evidence is libellous imo.
-
I have checked Grime's history and his actions since 2007. I found nothing to suggest he behaved dishonestly in Praia da Luz or anywhere else. Common sense suggests he had everything to lose and nothing to gain by doing so. Suggesting that he was dishonest with no evidence is libellous imo.
What did you find.... How many cases has he been involved in during the last 12 years
-
Grime's reputation rested on him using his dogs honestly.
Its only anonymous posters on an internet forum who call in to question his reputation,means diddly squat in the real world.
-
Its only anonymous posters on an internet forum who call in to question his reputation,means diddly squat in the real world.
I agree... Just, as every post on this forum means the same in the real world
-
so ten years...and supposedly the best in the business. What actual achievements re his contribution to solving cases and finding evidence...there seems to be very...very little...next to nothing
You inferred he acted fraudulently by cuing the dog to alert to the car he saw posters on.
-
You inferred he acted fraudulently by cuing the dog to alert to the car he saw posters on.
Gosh.. I'm outed... Should I go under radar...
-
Gosh.. I'm outed... Should I go under radar...
No, please continue. In fact you can double down for me. Sooner or later you'll get pinged.
-
So what if they alert in a place where the body used to be, and are then proved correct?
Probably wouldn't be a circumstantial evidence case then.
-
Probably wouldn't be a circumstantial evidence case then.
Correct. It's a verifiable fact that the dog was right.
-
Correct. It's a verifiable fact that the dog was right.
Yeah it would be a pat on the back for the trainer, but the actual proof would have priority in court.
-
Yeah it would be a pat on the back for the trainer, but the actual proof would have priority in court.
It's not a pat on the back for the trainer, I doubt he gives one contrary to a number on here who think Marty Grime in particular is a grand stander, it's (further) proof of concept. We use these previous cases for a reason; they provide a precedent we can refer to to prove rigour.
-
It's not a pat on the back for the trainer, I doubt he gives one contrary to a number on here who think Marty Grime in particular is a grand stander, it's (further) proof of concept. We use these previous cases for a reason; they provide a precedent we can refer to to prove rigour.
What previous cases.. Prior to 2007 Eddie had only ever found one body
-
What previous cases.. Prior to 2007 Eddie had only ever found one body
Everywhere. Or are North American dogs now not able to be used as precedent?
How about EVRD dogs deployed in disaster zones? Waste of time?
-
Everywhere. Or are North American dogs now not able to be used as precedent?
How about EVRD dogs deployed in disaster zones? Waste of time?
Only when it's a McCann disaster zone 8(0(*
-
Everywhere. Or are North American dogs now not able to be used as precedent?
How about EVRD dogs deployed in disaster zones? Waste of time?
There was only ever one EVRD.
-
Everywhere. Or are North American dogs now not able to be used as precedent?
How about EVRD dogs deployed in disaster zones? Waste of time?
If there is a body there then there is no problem.
-
Everywhere. Or are North American dogs now not able to be used as precedent?
How about EVRD dogs deployed in disaster zones? Waste of time?
Do you know for a fact that all these successful cadaver dogs only alerted when they came across a body?
-
Do you know for a fact that all these successful cadaver dogs only alerted when they came across a body?
Are you aware of anything that's 100% reliable?
-
Are you aware of anything that's 100% reliable?
Yes.. Eddie... The superdog... Never wrong in 200 cases.. 100% record... Ask any sceptic for a cite
-
Are you aware of anything that's 100% reliable?
So that’s a no then. Cadaver dogs do make false alerts and therefore unless corroborated cannot be relied on.
-
So that’s a no then. Cadaver dogs do make false alerts and therefore unless corroborated cannot be relied on.
Any sign of Maddie? No? There's your corroboration.
-
So that’s a no then. Cadaver dogs do make false alerts and therefore unless corroborated cannot be relied on.
A bit like a polygraph then. Or grainy CCTV. Or eye witness testimony. Or specks of gunpowder on a jacket sleeve. Or hand writing analysis.
-
Any sign of Maddie? No? There's your corroboration.
And I suppose the proof she’s dead is a dog barking. *%87
-
A bit like a polygraph then. Or grainy CCTV. Or eye witness testimony. Or specks of gunpowder on a jacket sleeve. Or hand writing analysis.
At least two of those are not admissable in UK courts, so yes, a bit like that.
-
At least two of those are not admissable in UK courts, so yes, a bit like that.
Ahh, narrow world view, OK.
I was thinking a bit wider.
-
Ahh, narrow world view, OK.
I was thinking a bit wider.
Its even narrower than that,the girl was abducted end of,or so tis alleged.
-
And I suppose the proof she’s dead is a dog barking. *%87
She hasn't touched her bank account or phoned home in 12 years either.
-
Ahh, narrow world view, OK.
I was thinking a bit wider.
do elucidate. In what way was what I wrote “narrow”?
-
Grime's reputation rested on him using his dogs honestly.
Exactly!
He had nothing to gain from pretending his dogs alerted to scents they were trained to do. And that was his only remit.
He wasn't asked to find the McCann's guilty of anything. AND he never said it was Madeleine's cadaver scent either. Hence why it is strange the McCann's get all defensive about the dogs reliability.
It is also strange that IF they claim their daughter was abducted what was preventing this abductor from killing their daughter and hiding her body for disposal at another time.
* If It was me and I was told this- I would pass out thinking OMG she has been killed! But Gerry with a sniggering,arrogant reply said the dogs are wrong. This is on an interview...
-
Exactly!
He had nothing to gain from pretending his dogs alerted to scents they were trained to do. And that was his only remit.
He wasn't asked to find the McCann's guilty of anything. AND he never said it was Madeleine's cadaver scent either. Hence why it is strange the McCann's get all defensive about the dogs reliability.
It is also strange that IF they claim their daughter was abducted what was preventing this abductor from killing their daughter and hiding her body for disposal at another time.
* If It was me and I was told this- I would pass out thinking OMG she has been killed! But Gerry with a sniggering,arrogant reply said the dogs are wrong. This is on an interview...
Oh, was that an interview carried out directly after he’d been informed of the dog alerts?
-
Exactly!
He had nothing to gain from pretending his dogs alerted to scents they were trained to do. And that was his only remit.
He wasn't asked to find the McCann's guilty of anything. AND he never said it was Madeleine's cadaver scent either. Hence why it is strange the McCann's get all defensive about the dogs reliability.
It is also strange that IF they claim their daughter was abducted what was preventing this abductor from killing their daughter and hiding her body for disposal at another time.
* If It was me and I was told this- I would pass out thinking OMG she has been killed! But Gerry with a sniggering,arrogant reply said the dogs are wrong. This is on an interview...
I get the impression you pass out frequently
-
I get the impression you pass out frequently
Goading and pathetic.
Well put it this way if my daughter was abducted by a paedo gang to be abused in a horrific manner. I would not be jogging, blogging and doing photo shoots! for sure. ^*&&
-
Goading and pathetic.
Well put it this way if my daughter was abducted by a paedo gang to be abused in a horrific manner. I would not be jogging, blogging and doing photo shoots! for sure. ^*&&
What would you be doing?
-
What would you be doing?
moot point. There is NO evidence of a paedo gang abductors who stole MBM.
-
moot point. There is NO evidence of a paedo gang abductors who stole MBM.
Quite agree and it rarely if ever ends with a fairy tale reunion.
-
moot point. There is NO evidence of a paedo gang abductors who stole MBM.
there may be, you just don’t know what Op Grange have uncovered. Why are they investigating a German paedo, according to Amaral?
-
The wall is smaller from the garden side as these photos prove.
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/13n09resort-488488.jpg)
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/90820.jpg)
And the last photo confirms that Mrs Fenn can't see the garden unless out on the balcony which she wasn't. The Moyes were for 30 minutes so I would need to tie down an exact timeline from them. If they were out at 9 then they should have seen Jez with pram meeting Gerry and chatting below so I think they were out a bit later at around 9:15.
"The lead was that a couple had climbed over the fence and the back garden wall and they asked if that was us. It wasn't." Susan Moyes
Eddie alerted in the garden.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/nintchdbpict000321207978.jpg?w=620)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3429641/mystery-couple-seen-clambering-over-wall-and-fence-directly-behind-apartment-where-madeleine-mccann-was-sleeping-on-night-she-vanished/
-
Is it possible the couple referred to is the couple who expressed their wish to have a child?
-
Is it possible the couple referred to is the couple who expressed their wish to have a child?
Which couple was this ?
-
‘A few days after Madeleine vanished from flat 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, a British man came forward with his concerns about the couple and was interviewed by Portuguese detectives.
On the night of the abduction the man was closing his video rental shop just a few streets away from the apartment.
At 10.45pm, 45 minutes after Kate McCann had discovered that her daughter was missing, he noticed the Brazilian woman, aged about 25, driving past his shop in a red car.
He told police there was a dog in the front seat and the woman driver kept looking at something on the back seat which he could not see.
Her partner, a bald Brazilian man in his early 40s, had worked on a local farm but was fired after some machinery was damaged and later worked at Lagos marina, about four miles from Luz doing boat repair work.
The couple, who were staying on a yacht at the marina left shortly after the disappearance and have not been seen again.”
-
Which couple was this ?
A Brazilian couple? De Silva I think.
-
‘A few days after Madeleine vanished from flat 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, a British man came forward with his concerns about the couple and was interviewed by Portuguese detectives.
On the night of the abduction the man was closing his video rental shop just a few streets away from the apartment.
At 10.45pm, 45 minutes after Kate McCann had discovered that her daughter was missing, he noticed the Brazilian woman, aged about 25, driving past his shop in a red car.
He told police there was a dog in the front seat and the woman driver kept looking at something on the back seat which he could not see.
Her partner, a bald Brazilian man in his early 40s, had worked on a local farm but was fired after some machinery was damaged and later worked at Lagos marina, about four miles from Luz doing boat repair work.
The couple, who were staying on a yacht at the marina left shortly after the disappearance and have not been seen again.”
Remember this.
-
Remember this.
Hi Eleanor, I think this connects to George Burke’s sighting of a bald man and woman with a child rushing towards the Lagos Marina at 6h00 on Friday morning, the 4th of May.
-
As presented by the Netflix documentary.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
As presented by the Netflix documentary.
The man was carrying the child. It was ascertained at that time that the aforementioned situation would not be of interest to the investigation.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GEORGE_BURKE_BROOKS.htm
-
‘A few days after Madeleine vanished from flat 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, a British man came forward with his concerns about the couple and was interviewed by Portuguese detectives.
On the night of the abduction the man was closing his video rental shop just a few streets away from the apartment.
At 10.45pm, 45 minutes after Kate McCann had discovered that her daughter was missing, he noticed the Brazilian woman, aged about 25, driving past his shop in a red car.
He told police there was a dog in the front seat and the woman driver kept looking at something on the back seat which he could not see.
Her partner, a bald Brazilian man in his early 40s, had worked on a local farm but was fired after some machinery was damaged and later worked at Lagos marina, about four miles from Luz doing boat repair work.
The couple, who were staying on a yacht at the marina left shortly after the disappearance and have not been seen again.”
Sarah Silva and her bald partner. The PJ found them straight away but that doesn't stop the press publishing nonsense stories years later.
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/16/77/69/72/compar10.jpg)
-
The man was carrying the child. It was ascertained at that time that the aforementioned situation would not be of interest to the investigation.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GEORGE_BURKE_BROOKS.htm
Hi Barrier, is it not a bit trivial as to who carried the child? If this was not of significance to the investigation, did they explain who the child was?
-
Sarah Silva and her bald partner. The PJ found them straight away but that doesn't stop the press publishing nonsense stories years later.
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/16/77/69/72/compar10.jpg)
Has it been established who the child was?
-
Ammended. Sorry I had left off two of the photos - now added back in.
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/13n09resort-488488.jpg)
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/90820.jpg)
"The lead was that a couple had climbed over the fence and the back garden wall and they asked if that was us. It wasn't." Susan Moyes
Eddie alerted in the garden.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/nintchdbpict000321207978.jpg?w=620)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3429641/mystery-couple-seen-clambering-over-wall-and-fence-directly-behind-apartment-where-madeleine-mccann-was-sleeping-on-night-she-vanished/
Good set of photos PF, but all taken at different times and dates, which makes comparisons difficult. They could have been taken any time over a period of over 10 years.
You and Anthro deserve medals for your photos. Maybe others too, soz if I have missed them out.
-
Hi Barrier, is it not a bit trivial as to who carried the child? If this was not of significance to the investigation, did they explain who the child was?
Smithman is far from trivial.
-
Good set of photos PF, but all taken at different times and dates, which makes comparisons difficult. They could have been taken any time over a period of over 10 years.
You and Anthro deserve medals for your photos. Maybe others too, soz if I have missed them out.
Thanks but the height of the wall has not changed so what's your point?
-
Thanks but the height of the wall has not changed so what's your point?
is there one? waiting...
re this photograph: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3429641/mystery-couple-seen-clambering-over-wall-and-fence-directly-behind-apartment-where-madeleine-mccann-was-sleeping-on-night-she-vanished/
It does show mature bushes described by eye witnesses that you couldn't see into the McCanns apartment only the top.
So much for the claims they could see from the tapas.
-
is there one? waiting...
re this photograph: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3429641/mystery-couple-seen-clambering-over-wall-and-fence-directly-behind-apartment-where-madeleine-mccann-was-sleeping-on-night-she-vanished/
It does show mature bushes described by eye witnesses that you couldn't see into the McCanns apartment only the top.
So much for the claims they could see from the tapas.
From the sun article.
Mr Moyes described Praia du Luz as idyllic and safe and his wife added: “It is paradise.”
Doesn't fit with all the bogus charity collectors,men sitting on beds et al does it.
-
Smithman is far from trivial.
I was not referring to Smithman. My question is: has the identity of the child being carried by a man and a woman on 4 May at 6h00 at the Lagos Marina as witnessed by George Burke.
-
I was not referring to Smithman. My question is: has the identity of the child being carried by a man and a woman on 4 May at 6h00 at the Lagos Marina as witnessed by George Burke.
Perhaps he should have told the PJ of his sighting instead of the press.
-
Thanks but the height of the wall has not changed so what's your point?
Err?
What ae you on about? All I did was congratulate you on finding your photos.
Pity that they are not dated.
-
This was the point of discussion.
"The lead was that a couple had climbed over the fence and the back garden wall and they asked if that was us. It wasn't." Susan Moyes
Climbed over the garden wall so dates of photos which you brought up are irrelevant because he height of the wall hasn't changed.
-
This was the point of discussion.
"The lead was that a couple had climbed over the fence and the back garden wall and they asked if that was us. It wasn't." Susan Moyes
Climbed over the garden wall so dates of photos which you brought up are irrelevant because he height of the wall hasn't changed.
That sounds strange. I see a wall, but no fence.
-
That sounds strange. I see a wall, but no fence.
Some times you need to use your imagination... now close your eyes, while I draw one on for you! lol
-
Some times you need to use your imagination... now close your eyes, while I draw one on for you! lol
I wonder if the Met's finest asked whoever mentioned the climbing couple to point out this fence, or did neither they or the Moyes realise there isn't one?
-
I wonder if the Met's finest asked whoever mentioned the climbing couple to point out this fence, or did neither they or the Moyes realise there isn't one?
Maybe 'climb the fence' is a euphemism? 'Come on Daryll, let's go climb the fence'. 'Behind this wall'. 'Who's is this tennis bag, Karen?'
-
Maybe 'climb the fence' is a euphemism? 'Come on Daryll, let's go climb the fence'. 'Behind this wall'. 'Who's is this tennis bag, Karen?'
'Who's is this tennis bag, Karen?'
(&^&
-
I wonder if the Met's finest asked whoever mentioned the climbing couple to point out this fence, or did neither they or the Moyes realise there isn't one?
I just wonder if that sardine munching- ear studded Amaral didn't remove it on purpose. Wouldn't put it past him.
-
Please keep comments constructive, polite and on topic guys.
-
No one left any evidence of this alleged abduction in 5a,a little old wall pales.
-
For anyone who thinks that 9 people aren’t capable of sustaining a coverup, or wouldn’t risk their jobs/reputation by lying to an official investigation in my opinion should watch the documentary shown on Channel 4 last night about the Lubbock case.
-
For anyone who thinks that 9 people aren’t capable of sustaining a coverup, or wouldn’t risk their jobs/reputation by lying to an official investigation in my opinion should watch the documentary shown on Channel 4 last night about the Lubbock case.
Of course cover ups involving more than one person occur, and of course people have risked their jobs / reputation by lying to the police. This is not news. Each case is different. The McCann case is not remotely similar to the Stuart Lubbock case. There was means, motive and opportunity in the latter which there simply isn’t in the former. IMO.
-
For anyone who thinks that 9 people aren’t capable of sustaining a coverup, or wouldn’t risk their jobs/reputation by lying to an official investigation in my opinion should watch the documentary shown on Channel 4 last night about the Lubbock case.
are the 9 covering up for themselves to hide their involveemnt in the crime...thats the difference
-
Of course cover ups involving more than one person occur, and of course people have risked their jobs / reputation by lying to the police. This is not news. Each case is different. The McCann case is not remotely similar to the Stuart Lubbock case. There was means, motive and opportunity in the latter which there simply isn’t in the former. IMO.
The means can only be guessed at, the motive, similarly, can only be guessed at.
-
are the 9 covering up for themselves to hide their involveemnt in the crime...thats the difference
Perhaps.
-
Perhaps.
or perhaps not..
-
Well that's, that sorted then. In your opinion
It’s not opinion....it happened.
-
It’s not opinion....it happened.
The Police have solved The Lubbock Case then, have they?
-
The Police have solved The Lubbock Case then, have they?
Of course not but with all the people at Barrymore’s bungalow confined to such a small space it’s almost impossible for them all not to know at least part of what happened.
-
Of course not but with all the people at Barrymore’s bungalow confined to such a small space it’s almost impossible for them all not to know at least part of what happened.
And you think that’s like the McCann case do you? All crammed into a bungalow while a crime was committed?
-
And you think that’s like the McCann case do you? All crammed into a bungalow while a crime was committed?
I’m not sure whether you’re being deliberately obtuse or truly don’t understand my point.
In the Lubbock case at least nine people have covered up a crime by a perpetrator/perpetrators they probably didn’t know very well and in the process risked their own livelihood and freedom. We were told that it is a ridiculous suggestion that 7 people, some who didn’t know the parents very well, would risk their livelihoods and freedom by lying for the parents. After watching the Lubbock documentary that suggestion doesn’t seem so ridiculous after all.
-
I’m not sure whether you’re being deliberately obtuse or truly don’t understand my point.
In the Lubbock case at least nine people have covered up a crime by a perpetrator/perpetrators they probably didn’t know very well and in the process risked their own livelihood and freedom. We were told that it is a ridiculous suggestion that 7 people, some who didn’t know the parents very well, would risk their livelihoods and freedom by lying for the parents. After watching the Lubbock documentary that suggestion doesn’t seem so ridiculous after all.
I do understand your point and I have already responded to it, see earlier post above. Do you just want me to keep on repeating it, or should the discussion move on?
-
Here’s an equivalent argument: we were told that it’s ridiculous to think that a stranger would be able to enter a premises and pick up a sleeping child without it waking and screaming the place down, but the Alesha McPhail case proves this is not such a ridiculous idea after all.
-
Here’s an equivalent argument: we were told that it’s ridiculous to think that a stranger would be able to enter a premises and pick up a sleeping child without it waking and screaming the place down, but the Alesha McPhail case proves this is not such a ridiculous idea after all.
I don’t remember anyone saying it was impossible but even Madeleine’s gran thought it was highly unlikely that if taken out of her bed by a stranger that she wouldn’t scream the place down. Further it’s not entirely clear whether the young man who killed Alesha was a stranger to her.
So with reference to other cases it is clear that it is possible for a group of people, not especially close to each other, to hide a criminal act even when it may lead to the loss of their livelihood and freedom and it is also possible to remove a sleeping child from a bedroom without them screaming the place down.
What you believe is simply a matter of opinion.
-
I’m not sure whether you’re being deliberately obtuse or truly don’t understand my point.
In the Lubbock case at least nine people have covered up a crime by a perpetrator/perpetrators they probably didn’t know very well and in the process risked their own livelihood and freedom. We were told that it is a ridiculous suggestion that 7 people, some who didn’t know the parents very well, would risk their livelihoods and freedom by lying for the parents. After watching the Lubbock documentary that suggestion doesn’t seem so ridiculous after all.
The police have never claimed as you do that everyone present in Barrymore's bungalow had knowledge of Stuart Lubbock's murder.
They are very circumspect about what they are putting into the public domain. No doubt bearing in mind that despite a heinous crime having been committed there is no evidence with which to enable anyone to be either accused or charged with the offence.
Exceedingly unfortunate but that is the fact of the matter.
Please be equally as circumspect and bear in mind that your unsubstantiated accusations whether outright or implied are libellous.
Snip
(https://www.essex.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/images/essex/news/news/2020/02-february/stuart-lubbock-appeal-600.jpg)
“Nine people went to the party at Michael Barrymore’s house, but only one of them – Stuart – ended up being violently sexually assaulted and murdered.
“We know not everyone at that party was responsible for what happened, but someone was. We also know that not everyone at that party may know what happened, but someone does.
https://www.essex.police.uk/news/essex/news/news/2020/february/detectives-appeal-for-fresh-information-about-the-rape-and-murder-of-stuart-lubbock/
-
I don’t remember anyone saying it was impossible but even Madeleine’s gran thought it was highly unlikely that if taken out of her bed by a stranger that she wouldn’t scream the place down. Further it’s not entirely clear whether the young man who killed Alesha was a stranger to her.
So with reference to other cases it is clear that it is possible for a group of people, not especially close to each other, to hide a criminal act even when it may lead to the loss of their livelihood and freedom and it is also possible to remove a sleeping child from a bedroom without them screaming the place down.
What you believe is simply a matter of opinion.
talk about stating the obvious. Thanks for sharing though, I’m quite sure it’s progressed our understanding of what happened to Madeleine by comparing her circumstances to those of Stuart Lubbock. *rolleyesemoticon*
-
The police have never claimed as you do that everyone present in Barrymore's bungalow had knowledge of Stuart Lubbock's murder.
They are very circumspect about what they are putting into the public domain. No doubt bearing in mind that despite a heinous crime having been committed there is no evidence with which to enable anyone to be either accused or charged with the offence.
Exceedingly unfortunate but that is the fact of the matter.
Please be equally as circumspect and bear in mind that your unsubstantiated accusations whether outright or implied are libellous.
Snip
(https://www.essex.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/images/essex/news/news/2020/02-february/stuart-lubbock-appeal-600.jpg)
“Nine people went to the party at Michael Barrymore’s house, but only one of them – Stuart – ended up being violently sexually assaulted and murdered.
“We know not everyone at that party was responsible for what happened, but someone was. We also know that not everyone at that party may know what happened, but someone does.
https://www.essex.police.uk/news/essex/news/news/2020/february/detectives-appeal-for-fresh-information-about-the-rape-and-murder-of-stuart-lubbock/
In a bungalow the size of Barrymore’s it would be almost impossible for all the guests not to know at least part of what happened that night or to have knowledge of it through someone else yet none of them are talking to the police....and to be clear I am accusing no one.
As John Biggs QC said during Barrymore’s wrongful arrest trial :
‘Mr Beggs added: "This was not a mansion as the media have claimed. It was a moderate cottage, with narrow physical confines.
"There were very few people at the property. It was no bigger than a dinner party of nine people, not 160. If there had been 160 persons present and 140 had no idea what went on that might not be very suspicious.
"But we have eight survivors, and at no point, not one can offer a single explanation."
-
talk about stating the obvious. Thanks for sharing though, I’m quite sure it’s progressed our understanding of what happened to Madeleine by comparing her circumstances to those of Stuart Lubbock. *rolleyesemoticon*
I disagree. That we can disprove the assumption that it was ridiculous to suggest that a terrible event could be hidden by a group of people to protect themselves does take us forward and opens up a myriad of possibilities.
-
I disagree. That we can disprove the assumption that it was ridiculous to suggest that a terrible event could be hidden by a group of people to protect themselves does take us forward and opens up a myriad of possibilities.
What may be ridiculous in one set of circumstances with one set of people, may not be so ridiculous with another set of people and another set of circumstances. There is not a law of physics here that you are trying to prove or disprove. You yourself have put forward mitigating circs as to why you believe we can’t compare Madeleine to Alesha McPhail for example.
-
PS, there is a Stuart Lubbock discussion in another part of the forum. I have just made a post in it.
-
What may be ridiculous in one set of circumstances with one set of people, may not be so ridiculous with another set of people and another set of circumstances. There is not a law of physics here that you are trying to prove or disprove. You yourself have put forward mitigating circs as to why you believe we can’t compare Madeleine to Alesha McPhail for example.
That's a very good point. Each set of circumstances is unique and unrelated to any other. Despite that people have tried to make comparisons; Madeleine McCann/Joana Cipriano; cases involving CSI dogs; different Judicial systems; trolling with asking questions.
-
That's a very good point. Each set of circumstances is unique and unrelated to any other. Despite that people have tried to make comparisons; Madeleine McCann/Joana Cipriano; cases involving CSI dogs; different Judicial systems; trolling with asking questions.
So in your view the Stuart Lubbock case tells us nothing about the McCann case. Glad we got that sorted.
-
What may be ridiculous in one set of circumstances with one set of people, may not be so ridiculous with another set of people and another set of circumstances. There is not a law of physics here that you are trying to prove or disprove. You yourself have put forward mitigating circs as to why you believe we can’t compare Madeleine to Alesha McPhail for example.
Its possible that a group of relative strangers will cover up another’s misdeeds even when their freedom and livelihood is at stake. That is the point....the end.
-
Its possible that a group of relative strangers will cover up another’s misdeeds even when their freedom and livelihood is at stake. That is the point....the end.
It's also possible that people think they're keeping quiet about something minor when it's actually more than that.
-
Its possible that a group of relative strangers will cover up another’s misdeeds even when their freedom and livelihood is at stake. That is the point....the end.
And it's possible that a child can be abducted by a stranger from her bed in the night. The end.
-
It's also possible that people think they're keeping quiet about something minor when it's actually more than that.
I don't think that would apply in either the Lubbock or the McCann case do you?
-
When investigating a crime there are things that are possible and things that are probable . The police look at the evidence and go from possible to probable.
It's possible that the McCanns are incredibly devious.. Narcisistic and all those things they are, accused of on CMOMM... I just think.. Based on the evidence... That there's more chance the Loch Ness monster exists. which of course we can't disprove.
So all those sceptics who get the excited because they can show somethings possible need to remind themselves about Loch Ness
-
It's also possible that people think they're keeping quiet about something minor when it's actually more than that.
Absolutely.
-
And it's possible that a child can be abducted by a stranger from her bed in the night. The end.
Of course is and it is also possible that something else happened and it is being covered up.
-
Of course is and it is also possible that something else happened and it is being covered up.
And it's also possible that she woke and wandered and fell down a big hole that got covered over the next day. It's also possible that she was abducted by supernatural forces or alien lifeforms. All things are possible, but then you have to factor in the evidence, and the likelihood based on the evidence.
-
And it's also possible that she woke and wandered and fell down a big hole that got covered over the next day. It's also possible that she was abducted by supernatural forces or alien lifeforms. All things are possible, but then you have to factor in the evidence, and the likelihood based on the evidence.
Well yes, & there's plenty of abduction evidence that can be factored i......oh, no wait, that's right, no there isn't.
-
Well yes, & there's plenty of abduction evidence that can be factored i......oh, no wait, that's right, no there isn't.
Y-A-W-N.
-
And it's also possible that she woke and wandered and fell down a big hole that got covered over the next day. It's also possible that she was abducted by supernatural forces or alien lifeforms. All things are possible, but then you have to factor in the evidence, and the likelihood based on the evidence.
Some things are more probable than others and the evidence doesn’t preclude a cover up amongst the friends.
-
One thing that's interesting about the Lubbock case is that the police seem quite confident that it's murder and to state that as far as they are concerned someone at that party of 8 (plus victim) did it. I don't see any such confident proclamations from the police in the McCann case, and you can't tell me it's because the McCanns are being protected or because of the threat of libel law suits. Barrymore is / was part of the entertainment elite, and a very rich man, arguable a lot more powerful than the McCanns in his day, and yet the police have been visibly on his tail for years.
-
Some things are more probable than others and the evidence doesn’t preclude a cover up amongst the friends.
Nor does the evidence preclude a stranger abduction which, on the evidence, seems the most likely explanation, certainly as far as the police seem to think, from everything they have said and done in the last few years.
-
When investigating a crime there are things that are possible and things that are probable . The police look at the evidence and go from possible to probable.
It's possible that the McCanns are incredibly devious.. Narcisistic and all those things they are, accused of on CMOMM... I just think.. Based on the evidence... That there's more chance the Loch Ness monster exists. which of course we can't disprove.
So all those sceptics who get the excited because they can show somethings possible need to remind themselves about Loch Ness
All those who believe that they understand the McCanns need to remind themselves that they don't know them.
-
One thing that's interesting about the Lubbock case is that the police seem quite confident that it's murder and to state that as far as they are concerned someone at that party of 8 (plus victim) did it. I don't see any such confident proclamations from the police in the McCann case, and you can't tell me it's because the McCanns are being protected or because of the threat of libel law suits. Barrymore is / was part of the entertainment elite, and a very rich man, arguable a lot more powerful than the McCanns in his day, and yet the police have been visibly on his tail for years.
Lubbock arrived at the party fit and healthy...he left dead and with injuries to his anal passage. It’s not a stretch of the imagination for the police to show confidence that it was murder and that one of the guests is guilty. Barrymore did sue Essex police for wrongful arrest but to be fair until that arrest I had never heard Essex police say that he was a suspect. Perhaps you have ?
-
Nor does the evidence preclude a stranger abduction which, on the evidence, seems the most likely explanation, certainly as far as the police seem to think, from everything they have said and done in the last few years.
They have said nothing in the past few years.
-
They have said nothing in the past few years.
Everything they have said and done since the case reopened points to an investigation of stranger abduction. Amaral claims they are investigating a German paedo. Is he making this up for attention?
-
Lubbock arrived at the party fit and healthy...he left dead and with injuries to his anal passage. It’s not a stretch of the imagination for the police to show confidence that it was murder and that one of the guests is guilty. Barrymore did sue Essex police for wrongful arrest but to be fair until that arrest I had never heard Essex police say that he was a suspect. Perhaps you have ?
If it was murder according to the police and he was one of the eight that could have done it, why wouldn't he have been a suspect?
FYI:
Barrymore subsequently received a police caution for possession and use of cannabis, but, although Barrymore and two other party-goers, unemployed Justin Merritt and drag queen Jonathan Kenney, were arrested on suspicion of murder on 6 June 2001, no other charges were laid against him or anyone else in connection with the death
-
Everything they have said and done since the case reopened points to an investigation of stranger abduction. Amaral claims they are investigating a German paedo. Is he making this up for attention?
Aye from the street and not the bedroom.
-
All those who believe that they understand the McCanns need to remind themselves that they don't know them.
What about all the people who do know them and understand them to be innocent? No doubt their views count count because they DO know them. LOL.
-
Everything they have said and done since the case reopened points to an investigation of stranger abduction. Amaral claims they are investigating a German paedo. Is he making this up for attention?
Possibly...I have no way of knowing Amaral’s motivation.
What exactly have either the PJ or SY said in the last 3 years?
-
If it was murder according to the police and he was one of the eight that could have done it, why wouldn't he have been a suspect?
FYI:
Barrymore subsequently received a police caution for possession and use of cannabis, but, although Barrymore and two other party-goers, unemployed Justin Merritt and drag queen Jonathan Kenney, were arrested on suspicion of murder on 6 June 2001, no other charges were laid against him or anyone else in connection with the death
He was arrested....up to that point Essex had never stated publicly that anyone was a suspect. Barrymore sued Essex police for wrongful arrest.
-
He was arrested....up to that point Essex had never stated publicly that anyone was a suspect. Barrymore sued Essex police for wrongful arrest.
Did Barrymore win?
-
Did Barrymore win?
Michael Barrymore has dropped a compensation claim for being arrested over the death of a man at his home.
Barrymore was investigated following the death of Stuart Lubbock in his swimming pool 18 years ago. He sued Essex Police claiming the arrest had damaged his career.
Court of Appeal judges concluded the 67-year-old TV presenter would be entitled to only "nominal" damages.
No payment
He said it was "devastating" to his career and had valued his claim at more than £2.4m because of lost earnings.
Essex Police argued that he was entitled to only a "nominal" payout, and appeal judges ruled in the force's favour.
A spokeswoman said the claim had been discontinued by agreement and it had made no payment to the entertainer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-48829151
-
Did Barrymore win?
Yes.
-
Yes.
In his dreams @)(++(*
-
In his dreams @)(++(*
No...in reality.
-
No...in reality.
Claim withdrawn...he never got a penny.
Every one of those guests should have been charged under joint enterprise laws.
-
Claim withdrawn...he never got a penny.
Every one of those guests should have been charged under joint enterprise laws.
Barrymore dropped the claim after he was awarded nominal damages.
-
Barrymore dropped the claim after he was awarded nominal damages.
A quid wasn't it.
-
A quid wasn't it.
the police have every right to arrest someone if there is sufficient evidence....sufficient evidence for arrest does not equal guilt. ...insufficient evidence does not equal innocence........but ofcourse hes entitled to the presumption of innocence
-
A quid wasn't it.
I think that’s the sum suggested.
-
He was arrested....up to that point Essex had never stated publicly that anyone was a suspect. Barrymore sued Essex police for wrongful arrest.
He was arrested in 2001 only two or three months after Lubbock’s death. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. My point is that every police investigation into this case has been firmly focused on all those who were at that party that night, to the point that Barrymore even sued for wrongful arrest. The McCanns and their friends meanwhile have never been arrested, despite there apparently being all this evidence of a cover up as you and others perceive it. Why not?
-
Claim withdrawn...he never got a penny.
Every one of those guests should have been charged under joint enterprise laws.
Yes, why weren’t they? That would soon get to the bottom of it (sorry about the unfortunate turn of phrase).
-
Everything they have said and done since the case reopened points to an investigation of stranger abduction. Amaral claims they are investigating a German paedo. Is he making this up for attention?
Is that the one GA thought looked like gmcn
-
He was arrested in 2001 only two or three months after Lubbock’s death. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. My point is that every police investigation into this case has been firmly focused on all those who were at that party that night, to the point that Barrymore even sued for wrongful arrest. The McCanns and their friends meanwhile have never been arrested, despite there apparently being all this evidence of a cover up as you and others perceive it. Why not?
Where did I say that there was ‘all this evidence’...I said the friends being involved was a ridiculous idea.
It’s worth pointing out that it was adjudged that there wasn’t enough evidence to arrest Barrymore and that is why he sued. I’m sure any police force will now make sure they have as solid a case against a perpetrator as is humanly possible after cases like Barrymore’s wrongful arrest.
-
Is that the one GA thought looked like gmcn
I’ve no idea. Is he lying though? Faithlilly seems to think it’s possible. The question is, why...?
-
Where did I say that there was ‘all this evidence’...I said the friends being involved was a ridiculous idea.
It’s worth pointing out that it was adjudged that there wasn’t enough evidence to arrest Barrymore and that is why he sued. I’m sure any police force will now make sure they have as solid a case against a perpetrator as is humanly possible after cases like Barrymore’s wrongful arrest.
”the friends being involved was a ridiculous idea”??! You seem to be trying very hard today to persuade yourself otherwise!
-
I’ve no idea. Is he lying though? Faithlilly seems to think it’s possible. The question is, why...?
Where did I say that ?
-
I’ve no idea. Is he lying though? Faithlilly seems to think it’s possible. The question is, why...?
Well it seems to me he is saying that its SY suspects - not his.
Although IMO there is a strong likeness - to gmcn
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html#i-457a6e2d31d9b289
-
Where did I say that ?
you do have a short memory. A little while ago I asked you if you thought Amaral was making up the German paedo story for attention. Your exact reply was
“Possibly...I have no way of knowing Amaral’s motivation”
-
Well it seems to me he is saying that its SY suspects - not his.
Although IMO there is a strong likeness - to gmcn
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html#i-457a6e2d31d9b289
1) beside the point and 2) beside the point.
-
1) beside the point and 2) beside the point.
What point is that VS
-
What point is that VS
does anyone still take any notice of the discredited amaral
-
Everything they have said and done since the case reopened points to an investigation of stranger abduction. Amaral claims they are investigating a German paedo. Is he making this up for attention?
They are still looking at ALL scenarios. They may or may not be interested in a German Paedophile, but as a suspect? If they were to interview him that would be seen as interfering with a witness to a crime where they have no justification as the crime was in Portugal. Something else the supporters need to keep reminding themselves about.
-
They are still looking at ALL scenarios. They may or may not be interested in a German Paedophile, but as a suspect? If they were to interview him that would be seen as interfering with a witness to a crime where they have no justification as the crime was in Portugal. Something else the supporters need to keep reminding themselves about.
What do you mean by all scenarios...they obviously are not looking at the parents
-
What do you mean by all scenarios...they obviously are not looking at the parents
You do not know who or what is going on or who is or isn't being looked at - pretending you do and rehashing old news doesn't make it so.
-
You do not know who or what is going on or who is or isn't being looked at - pretending you do and rehashing old news doesn't make it so.
its obvious the parents are not suspects after what SY and teh PJ said...and the complete absence of any action around them...its more than a bit silly to suggest they are..imo..but that doesnt stop some people
-
does anyone still take any notice of the discredited amaral
Of course, they do D - do you think they would have donated so much to his crowdfunding if they didn't
The crowdfunding to fight against the mcns
-
does anyone still take any notice of the discredited amaral
Discredited or not = he was the closest thing to try and get to the truth of what happened to maddie
-
Of course, they do D - do you think they would have donated so much to his crowdfunding if they didn't
The crowdfunding to fight against the mcns
perhaps a handful of poorly informed people...who dont undersatnd the evidence did...and still support him....did you contribute...i dont beleive SY officers contributed 10k...I think thats an outright lie
-
Discredited or not = he was the closest thing to try and get to the truth of what happened to maddie
he didnt understand the evidence so he had no chance of finding the truth
-
They are still looking at ALL scenarios. They may or may not be interested in a German Paedophile, but as a suspect? If they were to interview him that would be seen as interfering with a witness to a crime where they have no justification as the crime was in Portugal. Something else the supporters need to keep reminding themselves about.
You really don't know anything at all about what is currently happening in Madeleine's case therefore your post is not even opinion but mere speculation.
No-one is going to interview anyone who is a prisoner in Germany ... it just doesn't happen like that ... but I rather suspect you already know that ... certainly everyone else treading the McCann boards or with the slightest knowledge of Madeleine's case past and present does.
'If he is the person of interest, a German force will have to get involved to interview him on their soil.' Clarence Mitchell
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html#i-457a6e2d31d9b289
-
They are still looking at ALL scenarios. They may or may not be interested in a German Paedophile, but as a suspect? If they were to interview him that would be seen as interfering with a witness to a crime where they have no justification as the crime was in Portugal. Something else the supporters need to keep reminding themselves about.
If maddie is dead..or the victim of a sexual offence...SYcould try a suspect in the UK....perhaps it you sceptics who need reminding.
-
What about all the people who do know them and understand them to be innocent? No doubt their views count count because they DO know them. LOL.
The friends who were with them at the time seemed swayed by their reactions rather than by any factual considerations.
you know her face I'll never forget. It was a face of someone's child who had been taken...Kate and Gerry were just breaking down you know just their behaviour was, you know was never questioned or did I ever think there was anything strange about you know their behaviour and how they would, they would act, you know in such a set of circumstances
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
There was no, there was no way I could imagine anyone could, could hide the fear they must have had if something had already happened and, and then, and, and, and display this, this degree, this degree of anguish without being the most accomplished of, of, and cynical of actors, you know this was unimaginable.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
According to their friends and family in the UK they were perfect in every way, but no-one was going to say anything else in the circumstances.
-
If maddie is dead..or the victim of a sexual offence...SYcould try a suspect in the UK....perhaps it you sceptics who need reminding.
Only if its a brit subject.Also if nothing prevents the offence being tried outwith of England and Irelenad where the offence occured.
9. Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, or of being accessory to murder or manslaughter, may be dealt with, inquired, of, tried, determined, and punished in any county or place in England or Ireland in which such person shall be apprehended or be in custody, in the same manner in all respects as if such offence had been actually committed in that county or place: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act.
-
you do have a short memory. A little while ago I asked you if you thought Amaral was making up the German paedo story for attention. Your exact reply was
“Possibly...I have no way of knowing Amaral’s motivation”
So where did I say he lied ?
-
Only if its a brit subject.
I dont think thats true..
Statute and Criminal Codes (i.e. explicit reference in statute to the jurisdictional reach of the offences created in the statute);
Territory;
Active personality (i.e. the accused may be prosecuted in the country of the nationality of the offender);
Passive personality (i.e. the accused may be prosecuted in the country of the nationality of the victim); and
Universal jurisdiction (i.e. the state will be able to prosecute regardless of the nationality of the offender, the victim, and where the offence was committed, e.g. torture).
-
What point is that VS
That Amaral has said the police are investigating a German paedo.
-
The friends who were with them at the time seemed swayed by their reactions rather than by any factual considerations.
you know her face I'll never forget. It was a face of someone's child who had been taken...Kate and Gerry were just breaking down you know just their behaviour was, you know was never questioned or did I ever think there was anything strange about you know their behaviour and how they would, they would act, you know in such a set of circumstances
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
There was no, there was no way I could imagine anyone could, could hide the fear they must have had if something had already happened and, and then, and, and, and display this, this degree, this degree of anguish without being the most accomplished of, of, and cynical of actors, you know this was unimaginable.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
According to their friends and family in the UK they were perfect in every way, but no-one was going to say anything else in the circumstances.
So basically if you know the McCanns your view of them is invalid, if you don’t know the McCanns your view is invalid. UNLESS of course that view is negative, obviously. LOL.
-
I dont think thats true..
Statute and Criminal Codes (i.e. explicit reference in statute to the jurisdictional reach of the offences created in the statute);
Territory;
Active personality (i.e. the accused may be prosecuted in the country of the nationality of the offender);
Passive personality (i.e. the accused may be prosecuted in the country of the nationality of the victim); and
Universal jurisdiction (i.e. the state will be able to prosecute regardless of the nationality of the offender, the victim, and where the offence was committed, e.g. torture).
See post 1533.
-
So where did I say he lied ?
Are you serious?
-
if SY found evidence against a gernan paedo for a crime against a UK child....and the portuguese refused to investigate that person....it seems the Uk could investigate and if necessary prosecute...perhaps thats whats happening
-
he didnt understand the evidence so he had no chance of finding the truth
what evidence was there of an abduction - none.
It doesn't matter what any of you claim to know about the case - you're no further on than when Maddie went missing
Whatever you claim to think you know about the case - it is only your opinion.
No different to anyone who doesn't believe - the abduction ever happened.
-
what evidence was there of an abduction - none.
It doesn't matter what any of you claim to know about the case - you're no further on than when Maddie went missing
Whatever you claim to think you know about the case - it is only your opinion.
No different to anyone who doesn't believe - the abduction ever happened.
Perhaps you dont realise amaral claimed he would ...in the next 50 mins...prove maddie died in the apartment and the death was covered up. he thought he could because he misunderstood the evidence...thats fact,...not opinion
-
Of course, they do D - do you think they would have donated so much to his crowdfunding if they didn't
The crowdfunding to fight against the mcns
It is a mystery to me why people are so keen to put money into funds to benefit a verified corrupt and obviously still spiteful cop and all to thwart the search for a missing little girl.
Snip
The McCanns have repeatedly said the false accusations against them have harmed the search for Madeleine.
Gerry has been quoted as saying: 'I'm sure it's a very small minority of people who spend their time doing it, but it has totally inhibited what we do.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html#i-457a6e2d31d9b289
I believe pleas for financial support started circulating right from 2010 when the McCanns first took action to have his book defaming them removed from the shelves. So he has certainly been financially dependent on charity for many years ... and that is fine if that is what people wish to do with their money.
The unfortunate thing as far as I am concerned is that in very many cases these are exactly the same individuals who display a visceral hatred for Madeleine's fund which way back then was the only available source to fund the search for missing Madeleine McCann.
Horrendously strange behaviour ... fund a perjuror while attempting to shut down a fund set up to help find a missing child.
-
Discredited or not = he was the closest thing to try and get to the truth of what happened to maddie
In my opinion your post could not be further from the truth.
-
Are you serious?
Yes, of course.
-
The friends who were with them at the time seemed swayed by their reactions rather than by any factual considerations.
you know her face I'll never forget. It was a face of someone's child who had been taken...Kate and Gerry were just breaking down you know just their behaviour was, you know was never questioned or did I ever think there was anything strange about you know their behaviour and how they would, they would act, you know in such a set of circumstances
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
There was no, there was no way I could imagine anyone could, could hide the fear they must have had if something had already happened and, and then, and, and, and display this, this degree, this degree of anguish without being the most accomplished of, of, and cynical of actors, you know this was unimaginable.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
According to their friends and family in the UK they were perfect in every way, but no-one was going to say anything else in the circumstances.
That is a really weird interpretation of statements from witnesses who were recounting the events of the time which must have affected everyone who had the slightest contact with the trauma of the time.
It obviously traumatised the Smith family who didn't yet realise that they were material witnesses.
Snip
"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless.
"We had two grandchildren with us at the time, aged four and five, and it had a terrible effect on them.
"They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday.
"We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5256.msg186852#msg186852
-
if SY found evidence against a gernan paedo for a crime against a UK child....and the portuguese refused to investigate that person....it seems the Uk could investigate and if necessary prosecute...perhaps thats whats happening
Shouldn't be much longer now.......
-
In my opinion your post could not be further from the truth.
IYO - you can't prove it though B
-
IYO - you can't prove it though B
You need to apply that to amaral when he claimed he had proved it
-
You need to apply that to amaral when he claimed he had proved it
No OG officer has ever said they have evidence Madeleine left 5a alive,Redwood even said.
Redwood did say during the same press conference that police were considering the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment as well as the possibility that she was.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve
-
You need to apply that to amaral when he claimed he had proved it
Who knows what he would have proved - if he had been allowed to stay on the case.
-
Shouldn't be much longer now.......
Much closer than you realise,or there again................
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-police-psychic-claims-21450927
Madeleine McCann police psychic claims missing girl 'now training to be an actress'
-
Who knows what he would have proved - if he had been allowed to stay on the case.
You are, wrong again... We do know....he told us... He thought he could based in the evidence he had... He proved he didn't understand it..
-
Yes, of course.
So then you will be able to explain how thinking it’s possible Amaral is making something up for attention is not the same as thinking it’s possible he is lying. I look forward to your explanation.
-
So then you will be able to explain how thinking it’s possible Amaral is making something up for attention is not the same as thinking it’s possible he is lying. I look forward to your explanation.
To suggest that there is a possibility that someone is lying is not the same as saying they are lying. Surely even you can see the difference ?
-
Much closer than you realise,or there again................
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-police-psychic-claims-21450927
Madeleine McCann police psychic claims missing girl 'now training to be an actress'
ooh errr the sexy psychic.
The McCanns claiming they don't believe in psychics but then Kate had this 'feeling'
-
ooh errr the sexy psychic.
The McCanns claiming they don't believe in psychics but then Kate had this 'feeling'
With Metodo 3 claiming she'd be home for Christmas and now the psychic claims,hope must be rising for a conclusion soon.
-
To suggest that there is a possibility that someone is lying is not the same as saying they are lying. Surely even you can see the difference ?
I can and that is why I didnot say you said he was lying. I said you said it was a possibility. Christ on a bike.
Offline Faithlilly
Executive Member
******
Posts: 12669
Total likes: 4413
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Re: A Good, Bad or Average Theory What's The Difference?
« Reply #1516 on: Today at 03:30:17 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Vertigo Swirl on Today at 03:18:05 PM
I’ve no idea. Is he lying though? Faithlilly seems to think it’s possible. The question is, why...?
Where did I say that ?
-
With Metodo 3 claiming she'd be home for Christmas and now the psychic claims,hope must be rising for a conclusion soon.
This like many other cases, it attracts all kind of cranks. People who confess, know who did it, psychics. mediums, magicians etc It takes up a lot of police time can you imagine that as a global arena?
-
With Metodo 3 claiming she'd be home for Christmas and now the psychic claims,hope must be rising for a conclusion soon.
(https://i2-prod.dailystar.co.uk/incoming/article16558838.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_Madeleine-McCann-campaign-1631123)
-
I can and that is why I didnot say you said he was lying. I said you said it was a possibility. Christ on a bike.
Offline Faithlilly
Executive Member
******
Posts: 12669
Total likes: 4413
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Re: A Good, Bad or Average Theory What's The Difference?
« Reply #1516 on: Today at 03:30:17 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Vertigo Swirl on Today at 03:18:05 PM
I’ve no idea. Is he lying though? Faithlilly seems to think it’s possible. The question is, why...?
Where did I say that ?
Glad you’re giving my opinion such weight.
-
With Metodo 3 claiming she'd be home for Christmas and now the psychic claims,hope must be rising for a conclusion soon.
I'm getting vibes that there is quite a bit of making it up as you go along creeping in. Except I cannot fathom why unless it is an exercise in cyber bullying which I'm sure cannot possibly be the case since we all appear to be adults posting here.
No one in Madeleine's family has anything whatsoever to do with this latest attention seeker. So unless you know different why mention them in the same breath?
As far as Metodo3 are concerned ~ try taking things in context ~ for example Kate had this to say about them ...
"We have no doubt that M3 made significant strides, but unfortunately, in mid-December, one of their senior investigators gave an overly optimistic interview to the media.
He implied that the team were close to finding Madeleine and declared that he hoped she would be home by Christmas.
Gerry and I did not pay much heed to these bullish assertions.
While we believed they’d been made in an attempt to cast the search in a positive light, we knew that such public declarations would not be helpful.
Credibility is so important.
That glitch apart, M3 worked very hard for us and, just for the record, their fees were very low: most of the money they were paid was for verified expenses.
Although we went on to employ new teams, we maintain good relations with M3 today.
We had the sense that they genuinely cared about Madeleine’s fate, something that, sadly, we have found we cannot take for granted.
madeleine ... Kate McCann
-
"He HOPED she would be home by Christmas."
-
Glad you’re giving my opinion such weight.
I just don’t like being accused of saying something I did not say. Why are you not able to concede that you made a mistake and apologise?
-
I just don’t like being accused of saying something I did not say. Why are you not able to concede that you made a mistake and apologise?
Why bring my name into it at all ? It appears you brought up the subject of Amaral lying in posts to Kizzy simply to include my name.
-
Why bring my name into it at all ? It appears you brought up the subject of Amaral lying in posts to Kizzy simply to include my name.
It seems you are just re-writing the script to cover up your mistake. As predicted, no acknowledgement of it and no apology from you, which tells me everything I need to know about you as a debater. Ta ta.
-
It seems you are just re-writing the script to cover up your mistake. As predicted, no acknowledgement of it and no apology from you, which tells me everything I need to know about you as a debater. Ta ta.
It’s all there for everyone to see. Kizzy didn’t question whether Amaral was being truthful...you did, simply to include my name in your post.
-
It’s all there for everyone to see. Kizzy didn’t question whether Amaral was being truthful...you did, simply to include my name in your post.
Are you suggesting that when one is discussing a subject that one may not refer to others’ opinions when making a post? But of course this is simple deflection on your part from the fact that you accused me of writing something I did not and are now refusing to apologise or even acknowledge your false accusation. And brfore you say it - you’re boring me now.
-
Are you suggesting that when one is discussing a subject that one may not refer to others’ opinions when making a post? But of course this is simple deflection on your part from the fact that you accused me of writing something I did not and are now refusing to apologise or even acknowledge your false accusation. And brfore you say it - you’re boring me now.
You do not respect my opinion, you’ve made that abundantly clear over many years, so why post it to give weight to your point? Possibly, probably, the subtext is the same.
-
I'm getting vibes that there is quite a bit of making it up as you go along creeping in. Except I cannot fathom why unless it is an exercise in cyber bullying which I'm sure cannot possibly be the case since we all appear to be adults posting here.
No one in Madeleine's family has anything whatsoever to do with this latest attention seeker. So unless you know different why mention them in the same breath?
As far as Metodo3 are concerned ~ try taking things in context ~ for example Kate had this to say about them ...
"We have no doubt that M3 made significant strides, but unfortunately, in mid-December, one of their senior investigators gave an overly optimistic interview to the media.
He implied that the team were close to finding Madeleine and declared that he hoped she would be home by Christmas.
Gerry and I did not pay much heed to these bullish assertions.
While we believed they’d been made in an attempt to cast the search in a positive light, we knew that such public declarations would not be helpful.
Credibility is so important.
That glitch apart, M3 worked very hard for us and, just for the record, their fees were very low: most of the money they were paid was for verified expenses.
Although we went on to employ new teams, we maintain good relations with M3 today.
We had the sense that they genuinely cared about Madeleine’s fate, something that, sadly, we have found we cannot take for granted.
madeleine ... Kate McCann
I think you're under the mistaken belief that I actually give a damn.
-
"He HOPED she would be home by Christmas."
To their credit which one wasn't mentioned,still there's always this year,hope springs eternal.
-
You do not respect my opinion, you’ve made that abundantly clear over many years, so why post it to give weight to your point? Possibly, probably, the subtext is the same.
You made a mistake and refused to acknowledge it or apologise and are now desperately deflecting, that’s the only subtext around here. Enough now.
-
I think you're under the mistaken belief that I actually give a damn.
You went to the bother of going out of your way to become a member of the forum. You initiate posts and respond to others as you have done in this instance.
In my opinion that behaviour usually indicates at least a passing interest in getting a point over just as you did when you asserted mistakenly an association of Kate and Gerry McCann with a rather flamboyant psychic and a PR error made not by them but by an over enthusiastic employee voicing his hopes for Madeleine.
I refuted the false information your post supplied to the forum and provided proof that absolutely nothing you said in it had the slightest foundation in fact whatsoever and I think that is the cause of your 'Rhett Butler' interjection which in my opinion ... speaks volumes.
-
To their credit which one wasn't mentioned,still there's always this year,hope springs eternal.
Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?? or is that the sort of misogynistic thought usually expressed and posted by you for all the missing, their friends and family or is it reserved solely for Madeleine McCann and hers?
-
are the 9 covering up for themselves to hide their involveemnt in the crime...thats the difference
This case has been one of the most difficult to work out. Who knows what happened?
-
This case has been one of the most difficult to work out. Who knows what happened?
The McCanns are never going to be arrested or charged with this. And that's a fact.
-
This case has been one of the most difficult to work out. Who knows what happened?
When viewed in retrospect and with an inside look at the conduct of the main points of the investigation I think the fault line running throughout the Amaral investigation caused irreparable damage to any chance of either rescuing Madeleine initially or finding out what had become of her subsequently.
Amaral's score settling book perpetuating the mistakes made and outlined in the Tavares de Almeida report merely exacerbated that and illustrated the personal bias of two key members of the investigation one a convicted perjurer and one a convicted torturer.
In my opinion persons of that calibre should never have been let loose on a missing child investigation and their mismanagement of it had a lasting effect.
-
The McCanns are never going to be arrested or charged with this. And that's a fact.
But that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
-
When viewed in retrospect and with an inside look at the conduct of the main points of the investigation I think the fault line running throughout the Amaral investigation caused irreparable damage to any chance of either rescuing Madeleine initially or finding out what had become of her subsequently.
Amaral's score settling book perpetuating the mistakes made and outlined in the Tavares de Almeida report merely exacerbated that and illustrated the personal bias of two key members of the investigation one a convicted perjurer and one a convicted torturer.
In my opinion persons of that calibre should never have been let loose on a missing child investigation and their mismanagement of it had a lasting effect.
Scotland Yard didn’t think the damage was insurmountable or they would never have taken it on.
-
But that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
You may prefer to think so and that may be your prerogative but back in the real world it is patently obvious that Scotland Yard and the judicial Police most certainly do not share that bias with you which both investigations have gone out of their way to publicly point out at the highest level.
-
You may prefer to think so and that may be your prerogative but back in the real world it is patently obvious that Scotland Yard and the judicial Police most certainly do not share that bias with you which both investigations have gone out of their way to publicly point out at the highest level.
SY & the PJ can say whatever they like, but it still doesn't prove they didn't do it.
-
Scotland Yard didn’t think the damage was insurmountable or they would never have taken it on.
How much do you actually know about the investigation of Madeleine's case???
The Amaral/Almeida investigation was superseded by the Rebelo investigation after Amaral was sacked and Almeida took leave of absence https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4
More details here ~ Top officer takes over in McCann case https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Rebelo's first task was to make some sense of the disorder the Amaral investigation had left behind them ...
Snip
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.
According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
Following Amaral's removal after he criticised British police, Rebelo, one of Portugal's national deputy police chiefs, is reviewing the whole forensic investigation because of earlier procedural errors.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
And that is only the tip of the iceberg.
But the main points are that the Amaral investigation 'screwed up' and what could be salvaged from the mess was put into some sort of order by Rebelo and the specialist team he brought with him.
The files with which we are familiar today are the result of that ... "His appointment is an attempt to regain control of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance ... " and in conjunction with the proper conduct of the case ... "Her parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, were named as official suspects on September 7, but a magistrate ruled the police had yet to gather sufficient evidence to warrant further questioning of the couple over the disappearance of their daughter." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
So in effect you are following entirely the wrong illusion if you think for a minute that Amaral contributed anything but disarray to Madeleine's investigation or that any self respecting investigating body would be able to refer to what he left behind ... certainly the Judicial Police who took over from him couldn't.
Scotland Yard used Rebelo's work ... without which it would have been impossible for Scotland Yard or anyone else to penetrate the mess of an investigation Amaral left behind.
Snip
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.
"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."
Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
-
SY & the PJ can say whatever they like, but it still doesn't prove they didn't do it.
Doesn't prove you didn't do it either but that does not preclude you from enjoying the presumption of innocence nor does it preclude the investigators from eliminating people after checking them out and progressing to the next step of working on finding someone who might become more than a person of interest.
-
The McCanns are never going to be arrested or charged with this. And that's a fact.
I think it's highly unlikely that anyone will be arrested or charged, and it's highly unlikely that Madeleine's fate will ever be discovered.
-
SY & the PJ can say whatever they like, but it still doesn't prove they didn't do it.
I would say it proves well beyond reasonable doubt..
Nothing can be proved absolutely
-
I would say it proves well beyond reasonable doubt..
Nothing can be proved absolutely
A cast iron alibi is helpful, but there are none in this case.
-
When viewed in retrospect and with an inside look at the conduct of the main points of the investigation I think the fault line running throughout the Amaral investigation caused irreparable damage to any chance of either rescuing Madeleine initially or finding out what had become of her subsequently.
Amaral's score settling book perpetuating the mistakes made and outlined in the Tavares de Almeida report merely exacerbated that and illustrated the personal bias of two key members of the investigation one a convicted perjurer and one a convicted torturer.
In my opinion persons of that calibre should never have been let loose on a missing child investigation and their mismanagement of it had a lasting effect.
These Facts actually beggar belief. I very much doubt that Investigating ever came into any crime committed in Portugal.
Decide who done it and then stitch them up, by Torture or other means. The PJ might even have got it right now and again. But who cares?
-
But that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
I would join The PJ if I were you. You would be a natural.
-
I think it's highly unlikely that anyone will be arrested or charged, and it's highly unlikely that Madeleine's fate will ever be discovered.
I have hope while you obviously don't.
How will you react if Madeleine is found alive?
Personally, I believe that you will be one of the very few who behaves with some sort of honour.
-
A cast iron alibi is helpful, but there are none in this case.
The last person to see Ben Needham was his grandmother... I think we can say she was not involved but it can't be proved beyond all doubt
-
How much do you actually know about the investigation of Madeleine's case???
The Amaral/Almeida investigation was superseded by the Rebelo investigation after Amaral was sacked and Almeida took leave of absence https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4
More details here ~ Top officer takes over in McCann case https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Rebelo's first task was to make some sense of the disorder the Amaral investigation had left behind them ...
Snip
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.
According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
Following Amaral's removal after he criticised British police, Rebelo, one of Portugal's national deputy police chiefs, is reviewing the whole forensic investigation because of earlier procedural errors.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
And that is only the tip of the iceberg.
But the main points are that the Amaral investigation 'screwed up' and what could be salvaged from the mess was put into some sort of order by Rebelo and the specialist team he brought with him.
The files with which we are familiar today are the result of that ... "His appointment is an attempt to regain control of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance ... " and in conjunction with the proper conduct of the case ... "Her parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, were named as official suspects on September 7, but a magistrate ruled the police had yet to gather sufficient evidence to warrant further questioning of the couple over the disappearance of their daughter." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
So in effect you are following entirely the wrong illusion if you think for a minute that Amaral contributed anything but disarray to Madeleine's investigation or that any self respecting investigating body would be able to refer to what he left behind ... certainly the Judicial Police who took over from him couldn't.
Scotland Yard used Rebelo's work ... without which it would have been impossible for Scotland Yard or anyone else to penetrate the mess of an investigation Amaral left behind.
Snip
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.
"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."
Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
How many people for how long did it take OG to load up HOLMES2, despite the fact that LP were using it and different HOLMES2 systems can talk to each other? A fortnight? Amazing!
Dear reader, Brietta knows that Amaral was not sacked, but it is such a juicy. emotive, connotative use of language.
My next task is to find out how to make spiced nectarine cobblers. It is alleged that they were an Elvis favourite, but as he has been dead since 1977, I'm going to have to treat this assertion as opinion, much like Brietta's.
-
How many people for how long did it take OG to load up HOLMES2, despite the fact that LP were using it and different HOLMES2 systems can talk to each other? A fortnight? Amazing!
Dear reader, Brietta knows that Amaral was not sacked, but it is such a juicy. emotive, connotative use of language.
My next task is to find out how to make spiced nectarine cobblers. It is alleged that they were an Elvis favourite, but as he has been dead since 1977, I'm going to have to treat this assertion as opinion, much like Brietta's.
ORLY ?
-
How many people for how long did it take OG to load up HOLMES2, despite the fact that LP were using it and different HOLMES2 systems can talk to each other? A fortnight? Amazing!
Dear reader, Brietta knows that Amaral was not sacked, but it is such a juicy. emotive, connotative use of language.
My next task is to find out how to make spiced nectarine cobblers. It is alleged that they were an Elvis favourite, but as he has been dead since 1977, I'm going to have to treat this assertion as opinion, much like Brietta's.
Amaral was sacked from the Madeleine investigation... That's, a matter if fact... As for the, rest of the cobblers.... Not really worth commenting on
-
How many people for how long did it take OG to load up HOLMES2, despite the fact that LP were using it and different HOLMES2 systems can talk to each other? A fortnight? Amazing!
Dear reader, Brietta knows that Amaral was not sacked, but it is such a juicy. emotive, connotative use of language.
My next task is to find out how to make spiced nectarine cobblers. It is alleged that they were an Elvis favourite, but as he has been dead since 1977, I'm going to have to treat this assertion as opinion, much like Brietta's.
It is not my opinion that Amaral was sacked it is a fact with the reasons for his sacking being well known.
If you are in denial that is your concern but please do not bring disinformation to the forum.
-
How much do you actually know about the investigation of Madeleine's case???
The Amaral/Almeida investigation was superseded by the Rebelo investigation after Amaral was sacked and Almeida took leave of absence https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4
More details here ~ Top officer takes over in McCann case https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Rebelo's first task was to make some sense of the disorder the Amaral investigation had left behind them ...
Snip
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.
According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
Following Amaral's removal after he criticised British police, Rebelo, one of Portugal's national deputy police chiefs, is reviewing the whole forensic investigation because of earlier procedural errors.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
And that is only the tip of the iceberg.
But the main points are that the Amaral investigation 'screwed up' and what could be salvaged from the mess was put into some sort of order by Rebelo and the specialist team he brought with him.
The files with which we are familiar today are the result of that ... "His appointment is an attempt to regain control of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance ... " and in conjunction with the proper conduct of the case ... "Her parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, were named as official suspects on September 7, but a magistrate ruled the police had yet to gather sufficient evidence to warrant further questioning of the couple over the disappearance of their daughter." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
So in effect you are following entirely the wrong illusion if you think for a minute that Amaral contributed anything but disarray to Madeleine's investigation or that any self respecting investigating body would be able to refer to what he left behind ... certainly the Judicial Police who took over from him couldn't.
Scotland Yard used Rebelo's work ... without which it would have been impossible for Scotland Yard or anyone else to penetrate the mess of an investigation Amaral left behind.
Snip
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.
"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."
Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
How much do you actually know about the investigation of Madeleine's case???
Oh FGS what difference does that make and what gives you the right to act superior B
Just because you follow it for years with your snips and posts - doesn't mean that you know what happened.
Anyone could start an interest today - and know as much as you that is Maddie went missing May 2007.
Still to this day - no one really knows what happened to her apart from some think mcns involved some don't.
Because whatever you think you know it is opinion and speculation nothing more IMO.
no proof of abduction - nor is it set in stone she was yet that is what we are expected to believe
No one apart from who was there knows what really happened to Maddie McCann and you don't either
-
How much do you actually know about the investigation of Madeleine's case???
Oh FGS what difference does that make and what gives you the right to act superior B
Just because you follow it for years with your snips and posts - doesn't mean that you know what happened.
Anyone could start an interest today - and know as much as you that is Maddie went missing May 2007.
Still to this day - no one really knows what happened to her apart from some think mcns involved some don't.
Because whatever you think you know it is opinion and speculation nothing more IMO.
no proof of abduction - nor is it set in stone she was yet that is what we are expected to believe
No one apart from who was there knows what really happened to Maddie McCann and you don't either
Yet amaral said the available evidence proves Maddie died in the apartment... It doesn't...why doesn't amaral realise that..
No wonder he got the sack
-
Yet amaral said the available evidence proves Maddie died in the apartment... It doesn't...why doesn't amaral realise that..
No wonder he got the sack
Sack, removed, expunged, redeployed, fielding at cow corner, call it what you will.
Just too damned thorough and courageous for the palette of some.
-
Sack, removed, expunged, redeployed, fielding at cow corner, call it what you will.
Just too damned thorough and courageous for the palette of some.
I think you've mixed up your palettes... Lol... Have another go.. It's palate
-
I think you've mixed up your palettes... Lol... Have another go.. It's palate
My bad. Autocorrect.
But being corrected by the forum random word generator is quite the insult.
-
Sack, removed, expunged, redeployed, fielding at cow corner, call it what you will.
Just too damned thorough and courageous for the palette of some.
Boy, have you got a bad case of man crush.
-
Boy, have you got a bad case of man crush.
I think it can only possibly be a wind up... Surely.... Or are some really too blind to see amarals severe limitations
-
Boy, have you got a bad case of man crush.
Thanks.
-
I think it can get only possibly be a wind up... Surely.... Or are some really too blind to see amarals severe limitations
One definition of 'severe limitations' may be obtaining the ability to construct a simple sentence as a seemingly coherent adult, living independently.
-
One definition of 'severe limitations' may be obtaining the ability to construct a simple sentence as a seemingly coherent adult, living independently.
Is my post not to your pallet
-
Is my post not to your pallet
AHAHAHAHAAAAA....you knob......you forgot the question mark!
............................ahahahahahaaaaa......aaaahahahaaa.........
.....ahem.
As you were.
(Brietta / Eleanor, yes, delete this post. It's a joke, but it does say 'knob'.)
-
AHAHAHAHAAAAA....you knob......you forgot the question mark!
............................ahahahahahaaaaa......aaaahahahaaa.........
.....ahem.
As you were.
(Brietta / Eleanor, yes, delete this post. It's a joke, but it does say 'knob'.)
I rarely do question marks on this forum... I'm a bit if a rebel... Nice use of the extended elipsis by the way
-
I rarely do question marks on this forum... I'm a bit if a rebel... Nice use of the extended elipsis by the way
I see what you did there......nice.
You do know all of these posts are due to be culled at any moment? Well, all mine anyway.
-
I see what you did there......nice.
You do know all of these posts are due to be culled at any moment? Well, all mine anyway.
Why do you bother? Is it to feed your persecution complex? It seems you actively choose to make posts you know will be removed so you can squawk about it later.
-
How much do you actually know about the investigation of Madeleine's case???
The Amaral/Almeida investigation was superseded by the Rebelo investigation after Amaral was sacked and Almeida took leave of absence https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4
More details here ~ Top officer takes over in McCann case https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Rebelo's first task was to make some sense of the disorder the Amaral investigation had left behind them ...
Snip
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.
According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
Following Amaral's removal after he criticised British police, Rebelo, one of Portugal's national deputy police chiefs, is reviewing the whole forensic investigation because of earlier procedural errors.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
And that is only the tip of the iceberg.
But the main points are that the Amaral investigation 'screwed up' and what could be salvaged from the mess was put into some sort of order by Rebelo and the specialist team he brought with him.
The files with which we are familiar today are the result of that ... "His appointment is an attempt to regain control of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance ... " and in conjunction with the proper conduct of the case ... "Her parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, were named as official suspects on September 7, but a magistrate ruled the police had yet to gather sufficient evidence to warrant further questioning of the couple over the disappearance of their daughter." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
So in effect you are following entirely the wrong illusion if you think for a minute that Amaral contributed anything but disarray to Madeleine's investigation or that any self respecting investigating body would be able to refer to what he left behind ... certainly the Judicial Police who took over from him couldn't.
Scotland Yard used Rebelo's work ... without which it would have been impossible for Scotland Yard or anyone else to penetrate the mess of an investigation Amaral left behind.
Snip
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.
"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."
Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
The queen of the cut and paste
-
The queen of the cut and paste
Are you getting confused with copy and paste
-
The queen of the cut and paste
Thank you.
Please feel free to read and learn.
-
Thank you.
Please feel free to read and learn.
Learn what? The rumours and inaccuracies that the MSM and their contributors think up?
-
Learn what? The rumours and inaccuracies that the MSM and their contributors think up?
Some people can't see the wood for the trees... Some can
-
Learn what? The rumours and inaccuracies that the MSM and their contributors think up?
Indeed.
-
There was disagreement between 'Expresso' and Correio da Manhã about what Rebelo was thinking;
Yesterday, 'Expresso' cited sources at the PJ that said they had found "important material spread all over, which had not been included in the investigation", and that the new team in Portimao "had a hideous amount of work to do" in order to organise the files. Worse: That the new team considered "there was a lot of important information that was despised in the investigation"...
But several sources in the police have told CM that the news are causing "perplexity" and that they cannot be connected with the investigators from Lisbon who are analysing the case. Paulo Rebelo and the team he has chosen are pointed out as very experienced people, who are used to deal with pressure and who would not easily fall prey to the ingenuity of making precipitated judgements of value.
The investigation is still with the same group that was already working on it before - with the obvious exception of Gonçalo Amaral - and the four policemen who travelled from Lisbon are still reading the process. It is an acquired piece of data that the investigation's direction from now on will be that of a homicide case, just as the trio formed by Gonçalo Amaral, Guilhermino Encarnação and Luis Neves already considered it.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/ill-feelings-at-the-pj-cdm-21-10-07-t2332.html
-
How much do you actually know about the investigation of Madeleine's case???
Oh FGS what difference does that make and what gives you the right to act superior B
Just because you follow it for years with your snips and posts - doesn't mean that you know what happened.
Anyone could start an interest today - and know as much as you that is Maddie went missing May 2007.
Still to this day - no one really knows what happened to her apart from some think mcns involved some don't.
Because whatever you think you know it is opinion and speculation nothing more IMO.
no proof of abduction - nor is it set in stone she was yet that is what we are expected to believe
No one apart from who was there knows what really happened to Maddie McCann and you don't either
I think the problem you are having with my post is not that it is "opinion and speculation" but that it portrays with accuracy the facts surrounding Amaral's botched investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.
-
Learn what? The rumours and inaccuracies that the MSM and their contributors think up?
Please indicate what you think is rumour in my post.
Please indicate what you think is an inaccuracy in my post. Thank you.
-
Please indicate what you think is rumour in my post.
Please indicate what you think is an inaccuracy in my post. Thank you.
I was referring to newspaper reports, not to anything you posted. In my opinion you do tend to rely overmuch on such reports. The rumours in the Expresso about Rebelo were repeated by the UK newspapers, but none of them offered a balanced view by pointing out that Correio da Manhã denied the story.
-
I was referring to newspaper reports, not to anything you posted. In my opinion you do tend to rely overmuch on such reports. The rumours in the Expresso about Rebelo were repeated by the UK newspapers, but none of them offered a balanced view by pointing out that Correio da Manhã denied the story.
Or offered a direct quote from anyone in the PJ.
-
It is very sad to read that important points in the investigation were ignored. Also that information was found on scraps of paper littered about. It took the team two weeks to sort it out. Amaral was very slap dash in the way he operated. Though read his book you would think he was the most dedicated Police Officer ever to walk the earth. According to his wife, Amaral would work all hours of the day the poor man, yet that's not what a reporter saw was it?
Poor Madeleine.
-
It is very sad to read that important points in the investigation were ignored. Also that information was found on scraps of paper littered about. It took the team two weeks to sort it out. Amaral was very slap dash in the way he operated. Though read his book you would think he was the most dedicated Police Officer ever to walk the earth. According to his wife, Amaral would work all hours of the day the poor man, yet that's not what a reporter saw was it?
Poor Madeleine.
Perhaps he considered those long boozy lunches as work..
He was out till past midnight on the Thursday Maddie was abducted... Long boozy lunches... He must have been under the influence after lunch and permanently hung over
-
It is very sad to read that important points in the investigation were ignored. Also that information was found on scraps of paper littered about. It took the team two weeks to sort it out. Amaral was very slap dash in the way he operated. Though read his book you would think he was the most dedicated Police Officer ever to walk the earth. According to his wife, Amaral would work all hours of the day the poor man, yet that's not what a reporter saw was it?
Poor Madeleine.
You obviously prefer to believe the Expresso version of events rather than the Correio da Manhã version.
-
You obviously prefer to believe the Expresso version of events rather than the Correio da Manhã version.
Are there not other sources supporting the scraps of paper claim... That's how you decide what to believe in newspapers... Are there other sources saying the same thing
-
Perhaps he considered those long boozy lunches as work..
He was out till past midnight on the Thursday Maddie was abducted... Long boozy lunches... He must have been under the influence after lunch and permanently hung over
I wonder how under the influence Kate and Gerry were. If they would have been more attentive to their kids, the poor little mites, instead of getting on it, nobody would be casting aspersions on 'sardine-munching, backward plod' getting sozzled.
-
I wonder how under the influence Kate and Gerry were. If they would have been more attentive to their kids, the poor little mites, instead of getting on it, nobody would be casting aspersions on 'sardine-munching, backward plod' getting sozzled.
That's a valid point... As mine is. Is it acceptable for officers to have long boozy lunches
-
Are there not other sources supporting the scraps of paper claim... That's how you decide what to believe in newspapers... Are there other sources saying the same thing
If you wish to follow that route feel free. One source was promoted by the UK media and by some forum members. I have supplied another source which casts doubt on the one promoted. I'm content with reminding people that balance is important.
-
If you wish to follow that route feel free. One source was promoted by the UK media and by some forum members. I have supplied another source which casts doubt on the one promoted. I'm content with reminding people that balance is important.
it's the correct route to go down
Of course balance is important.. So how many sources support each side
-
That's a valid point... As mine is. Is it acceptable for officers to have long boozy lunches
In the UK? Probably not, but probably happens. In Kingston, Jamaica - probably not, but almost certainly occurs.
I'm sure there's a code of conduct in Portugal PJ, contrary to popular belief, that's adhered to in greater or lesser degrees on an individual basis. Factor in the cultural elements / lifestyle / permissive society / conditioning / liberalisation / economic factors / training standards / licensing laws / custom and practice / laissez faire attitude?
Don't know. What about France, for all the same reasons above?
What's a 'boozy' lunch? What's the definition? In Moscow that might be half a litre of vodka imbibed quickly and without hesitation (stereotype reference). What response, if any, would you get whilst holidaying in Madagascar? In what state would you expect a local copper to rock up in anywhere?
I would agree that you would expect a certain level of competence, cognisance and conduct as a holidaymaker in an EU country - but there's no suggestion that any of the responders were impaired in any way, not personally.
I know that there's this lazy, unfounded, stereotypical, borderline racist trope that gets bandied about, but usually in a hypocritical manner - us Brits are similarly labelled as hardly being the paragon of cultural, convivial drinking - and probably with good reason. But the reason for the castigation is probably more to do some being unable to rationalise and come to terms with the initial shortcomings of the parenting - you need someone to blame, right?
-
In the UK? Probably not, but probably happens. In Kingston, Jamaica - probably not, but almost certainly occurs.
I'm sure there's a code of conduct in Portugal PJ, contrary to popular belief, that's adhered to in greater or lesser degrees on an individual basis. Factor in the cultural elements / lifestyle / permissive society / conditioning / liberalisation / economic factors / training standards / licensing laws / custom and practice / laissez faire attitude?
Don't know. What about France, for all the same reasons above?
What's a 'boozy' lunch? What's the definition? In Moscow that might be half a litre of vodka imbibed quickly and without hesitation (stereotype reference). What response, if any, would you get whilst holidaying in Madagascar? In what state would you expect a local copper to rock up in anywhere?
I would agree that you would expect a certain level of competence, cognisance and conduct as a holidaymaker in an EU country - but there's no suggestion that any of the responders were impaired in any way, not personally.
I know that there's this lazy, unfounded, stereotypical, borderline racist trope that gets bandied about, but usually in a hypocritical manner - us Brits are similarly labelled as hardly being the paragon of cultural, convivial drinking - and probably with good reason. But the reason for the castigation is probably more to do some being unable to rationalise and come to terms with the initial shortcomings of the parenting - you need someone to blame, right?
I think the blame is multifactorial
-
I think the problem you are having with my post is not that it is "opinion and speculation" but that it portrays with accuracy the facts surrounding Amaral's botched investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.
No not at all I didn't read it all only your opening line - I think GA is more your obsession than mine B IMO
Talking about botched - the mcns did a good job of that letting 20 odd people trample round knowing as kmc said she knew Maddie had been abducted.
Its the fact you think you understand the investigation - with all your snips/posts, etc
none of it your own thoughts. if it fits with your agenda - you post it.
Although it all depends on what paper you choose - often they are conflicting.
I think you will have to wait to understand the investigation - because no one knows what they are doing.
As yet no one knows if maddie was abducted - or not even your understanding the so called investigation
Better to wait for it coming from the horse's mouth - and not the unicorns.
-
No not at all I didn't read it all only your opening line - I think GA is more your obsession than mine B IMO
Talking about botched - the mcns did a good job of that letting 20 odd people trample round knowing as kmc said she knew Maddie had been abducted.
Its the fact you think you understand the investigation - with all your snips/posts, etc
none of it your own thoughts. if it fits with your agenda - you post it.
Although it all depends on what paper you choose - often they are conflicting.
I think you will have to wait to understand the investigation - because no one knows what they are doing.
As yet no one knows if maddie was abducted - or not even your understanding the so called investigation
Better to wait for it coming from the horse's mouth - and not the unicorns.
You really do have this fixation that the victims of a crime are responsible for securing a crime scene ... at risk of repeating myself but most certainly repeating others with more than a passing acquaintance with investigating a crime ... it is the police who are responsible for securing a crime scene not contributing to it by not wearing gloves and as a result contaminating it by leaving fingerprints; smoking cigarettes and leaving ash behind; allowing police dogs to cast hair.
Sometimes Portuguese newspapers were indeed conflicting particularly when you have master criminals writing a daily column giving the latest on Madeleine's investigation in at least one of them.
I think he may be known as "a source close to the investigation" and there is little doubt he had an agenda going which had little to do with finding Madeleine.
-
You really do have this fixation that the victims of a crime are responsible for securing a crime scene ... at risk of repeating myself but most certainly repeating others with more than a passing acquaintance with investigating a crime ... it is the police who are responsible for securing a crime scene not contributing to it by not wearing gloves and as a result contaminating it by leaving fingerprints; smoking cigarettes and leaving ash behind; allowing police dogs to cast hair.
Sometimes Portuguese newspapers were indeed conflicting particularly when you have master criminals writing a daily column giving the latest on Madeleine's investigation in at least one of them.
I think he may be known as "a source close to the investigation" and there is little doubt he had an agenda going which had little to do with finding Madeleine.
In fairness, I thought they failed to arrive for an inordinate amount of time? Which is it? They arrived promptly, but failed to discharge their duty, or arrived late and found the place 'as if trampled by a herd of buffalo' (Arthur Conan Doyle; A Study in Scarlet)?
-
In fairness, I thought they failed to arrive for an inordinate amount of time? Which is it? They arrived promptly, but failed to discharge their duty, or arrived late and found the place 'as if trampled by a herd of buffalo' (Arthur Conan Doyle; A Study in Scarlet)?
The GNR arrived very late after being called. Aparantly they had been called out to a non incident half an hour away.
A few people, included OC members of staff, came into the flat to support kate and Gerry, but hardly any went into the bedroom, is my understanding. Reading the various statements there were a number of friends who did not go into 5A for one reason or another. Gerry was out searching and chasing up at main reception, talking to senior staff, Police etc ... and Kate was so distraught that I think it is unrealistic to expect her to think of anything except where was Madeleine? What had happened to her?
However, IIRC, they did keep the door to Madeleines bedroom closed, so preventing people destroying the scene there.
The major problem, as I see it Mr General, sir, is that the professionals messed up. The GNR, instead of excluding anyone who came, allowed them in. They themselves left finger prints (at least one that we know of and were there more indistinct ones?) and there were dog hairs everywhere, and I expect slobber. But I dont know the slobber bit tbh.
Then, of course, we had the finger print lady doing it without gloves! Now we have mystery pictures of her wearing gloves .... but NO gloves in the initial images seen
In the meanwhile Amaral decided not to go to the scene, but drove off and took himself home. I have seen it said many times that he never visited the scene and neither did he ever speak to Kate and Gerry
Is that a fair assessment Mr General sir ?
Please correct me if I have any facts wrongly rememberd, with cites. TY
-
The GNR arrived very late after being called. Aparantly they had been called out to a non incident half an hour away.
A few people, included OC members of staff, came into the flat to support kate and Gerry, but hardly any went into the bedroom, is my understanding. Reading the various statements there were a number of friends who did not go into 5A for one reason or another. Gerry was out searching and chasing up at main reception, talking to senior staff, Police etc ... and Kate was so distraught that I think it is unrealistic to expect her to think of anything except where was Madeleine? What had happened to her?
However, IIRC, they did keep the door to Madeleines bedroom closed, so preventing people destroying the scene there.
The major problem, as I see it Mr General, sir, is that the professionals messed up. The GNR, instead of excluding anyone who came, allowed them in. They themselves left finger prints (at least one that we know of and were there more indistinct ones?) and there were dog hairs everywhere, and I expect slobber. But I dont know the slobber bit tbh.
Then, of course, we had the finger print lady doing it without gloves! Now we have mystery pictures of her wearing gloves .... but NO gloves in the initial images seen
In the meanwhile Amaral decided not to go to the scene, but drove off and took himself home. I have seen it said many times that he never visited the scene and neither did he ever speak to Kate and Gerry
Is that a fair assessment Mr General sir ?
Please correct me if I have any facts wrongly rememberd, with cites. TY
The GNR were called at 22:41 and the two officers arrived at approximately 23:00. Pretty good going if they were 30 minutes away. Why do you feel the need to spread disinformation Sadie?
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA-1.htm
-
The GNR were called at 22:41 and the two officers arrived at approximately 23:00. Pretty good going if they were 30 minutes away. Why do you feel the need to spread disinformation Sadie?
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA-1.htm
No disinformation there . Matt tried to have reception call them at about 10.10 - 10.15, but it seems that Reception never called them.
On previous threads there are different times reported about when the calls were sent/ arrived and the time that the GNR arrived at 5A ... and I am not going to wade thru all the posts. You can if you wish.
The bottom line is that from 10.10ish to 11pmish is a very long time. Matt tried to get reception to report it to the Police at about that time, as you will know.. If YOUR child had vanished, would you find 45-50 minutes a long time to wait for the Police ... or would that be OK for you? ?
-
No disinformation there . Matt tried to have reception call them at about 10.10 - 10.15, but it seems that Reception never called them.
On previous threads there are different times reported about when the calls were sent/ arrived and the time that the GNR arrived at 5A ... and I am not going to wade thru all the posts. You can if you wish.
The bottom line is that from 9.10ish to 11pmish is a very long time. Matt tried to get reception to report it to the Police at about that time, as you will know.. If YOUR child had vanished, would you find 45-50 minutes a long time to wait for the Police ... or would that be OK for you? ?
The GNR didn't 'arrive very late' as you said, they made very good time from Odiaxere to Luz after being called; it took 18 minutes. They cannot be blamed for the delay in calling them; that lies elsewhere.
-
No disinformation there . Matt tried to have reception call them at about 10.10 - 10.15, but it seems that Reception never called them.
On previous threads there are different times reported about when the calls were sent/ arrived and the time that the GNR arrived at 5A ... and I am not going to wade thru all the posts. You can if you wish.
The bottom line is that from 9.10ish to 11pmish is a very long time. Matt tried to get reception to report it to the Police at about that time, as you will know.. If YOUR child had vanished, would you find 45-50 minutes a long time to wait for the Police ... or would that be OK for you? ?
I wonder why is it you would expect the police to drop everything and hurry along to a report of a missing child with in seconds of her disappearance ,there were no signs of a break in (Mitchell later confirmed this) there was no mysterious Tannerman until later even days later for Smithman,Id venture it would sound from initial reports as if she had just wandered off and was hiding,Its the subsequent theories down the years that cloud the issue, Is it known the actual wording used by the caller to the Police about the dissapearence?
-
I wonder why is it you would expect the police to drop everything and hurry along to a report of a missing child with in seconds of her disappearance ,there were no signs of a break in (Mitchell later confirmed this) there was no mysterious Tannerman until later even days later for Smithman,Id venture it would sound from initial reports as if she had just wandered off and was hiding,Its the subsequent theories down the years that cloud the issue, Is it known the actual wording used by the caller to the Police about the dissapearence?
Of course, as a parent, if your child goes missing you're going to want immediate action, and nothing that's done will seem enough.
In this case I would imagine the report of a child going missing during the holiday season is routine. Clearly the percentage of children subsequently found up to this point was 100%. That's not complacency. Arriving within the hour, given this context, is not negligent.
-
Of course, as a parent, if your child goes missing you're going to want immediate action, and nothing that's done will seem enough.
In this case I would imagine the report of a child going missing during the holiday season is routine. Clearly the percentage of children subsequently found up to this point was 100%. That's not complacency. Arriving within the hour, given this context, is not negligent.
a child missing from their bed with a window open is perhaps another story
-
a child missing from their bed with a window open is perhaps another story
If you call that in expeditiously enough and with suitable accuracy, you get the response they got in my most humble opinion.
I'm more than happy to criticise the police for all manner of reasons where it's warranted and often do.
The criticism of the initial response is unwarranted and actually unhelpful.
-
If you call that in expeditiously enough and with suitable accuracy, you get the response they got in my most humble opinion.
I'm more than happy to criticise the police for all manner of reasons where it's warranted and often do.
The criticism of the initial response is unwarranted and actually unhelpful.
Unhelpful to whom?
-
Unhelpful to whom?
Past tense. Unhelpful at the time.
-
You really do have this fixation that the victims of a crime are responsible for securing a crime scene ... at risk of repeating myself but most certainly repeating others with more than a passing acquaintance with investigating a crime ... it is the police who are responsible for securing a crime scene not contributing to it by not wearing gloves and as a result contaminating it by leaving fingerprints; smoking cigarettes and leaving ash behind; allowing police dogs to cast hair.
Sometimes Portuguese newspapers were indeed conflicting particularly when you have master criminals writing a daily column giving the latest on Madeleine's investigation in at least one of them.
I think he may be known as "a source close to the investigation" and there is little doubt he had an agenda going which had little to do with finding Madeleine.
Well the 20 odd people trampling round in there won't have helped either
IMO the mcns didn't do exactly what they should have done either.
Don't forget kmcn knew straight away Maddie had been abducted.
Yet ran out of the apartment leaving twins alone.
Waited 40 mins before contacting the police.
Failed to get twins checked out - even though she had to check if they were breathing or not
Why do you continually blame everyone else - for a tragedy that should never have happened.
No matter what you come back with three children of that age should never have been left on there own
not even for five minutes let alone how long they were left.
You go on about leaving ash behind - the mcns left three children behind.
-
Well the 20 odd people trampling round in there won't have helped either
IMO the mcns didn't do exactly what they should have done either.
Don't forget kmcn knew straight away Maddie had been abducted.
Yet ran out of the apartment leaving twins alone.
Waited 40 mins before contacting the police.
Failed to get twins checked out - even though she had to check if they were breathing or not
Why do you continually blame everyone else - for a tragedy that should never have happened.
No matter what you come back with three children of that age should never have been left on there own
not even for five minutes let alone how long they were left.
You go on about leaving ash behind - the mcns left three children behind.
Yeh, that's gotta burn.
-
a child missing from their bed with a window open is perhaps another story
Who saw this open window with Kate's fingerprints on?
-
a child missing from their bed with a window open is perhaps another story
That's the tale,but what words were used when the call to the police occured,and who got through.
-
That's the tale,but what words were used when the call to the police occured,and who got through.
According to Emma Knight John Hill called the police.
The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
According to John Hill he arrived on site at 22:33. As the first call to the police was 22:41 that makes sense. He then went to main reception to check that the police had been called. Perhaps that's when the second call was made, at 22:52.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg
-
According to Emma Knight John Hill called the police.
The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
According to John Hill he arrived on site at 22:33. As the first call to the police was 22:41 that makes sense. He then went to main reception to check that the police had been called. Perhaps that's when the second call was made, at 22:52.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg
Strange when kmc knew straight away Maddie had been abducted - the delay in calling the police
Could possibly be in my opinion - more time was needed for some reason
-
According to Emma Knight John Hill called the police.
The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
According to John Hill he arrived on site at 22:33. As the first call to the police was 22:41 that makes sense. He then went to main reception to check that the police had been called. Perhaps that's when the second call was made, at 22:52.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg
So the time between Kate raising the alarm and the police (by John Hill, not the parents) being called is a longer duration than from when the call was received and the police arrived.
In the meantime, prior to the police arriving (quite promptly), every man and his cat had traipsed through the apartment, perhaps in a well-meaning manner, looking for MM.
-
During this time Kate was punching & kicking walls, wailing about the f***ing b***ards that took Maddie, & running around the car park wishing she'd dressed her in long sleeved pyjamas.
A figure had been spotted carrying an inert child dressed in pyjamas.
-
So the time between Kate raising the alarm and the police (by John Hill, not the parents) being called is a longer duration than from when the call was received and the police arrived.
In the meantime, prior to the police arriving (quite promptly), every man and his cat had traipsed through the apartment, perhaps in a well-meaning manner, looking for MM.
According to 'madeleine' Gerry asked Matthew to 'go back' to the main reception at 22:35 to find out what was happening. Matthew doesn't confirm this. As it says that Gerry himself had checked out the Mini Club for Madeleine one wonders why he didn't call into reception himself. John Hill appeared at the veranda and was yelled at 'Where are the police?' I would have yelled that at Matthew, I think. Twice he was supposed to have called them. The McCann's friends were 'were running to and from the Tapas area, pleading with people to ring the police again from there.'
-
According to 'madeleine' Gerry asked Matthew to 'go back' to the main reception at 22:35 to find out what was happening. Matthew doesn't confirm this. As it says that Gerry himself had checked out the Mini Club for Madeleine one wonders why he didn't call into reception himself. John Hill appeared at the veranda and was yelled at 'Where are the police?' I would have yelled that at Matthew, I think. Twice he was supposed to have called them. The McCann's friends were 'were running to and from the Tapas area, pleading with people to ring the police again from there.'
Maybe they all didn't have mobile signal.
-
Maybe they all didn't have mobile signal.
Kate had good signal the night before didn't she?
-
Maybe they all didn't have mobile signal.
They managed to telephone friends, relatives and government departments without any bother.
It's difficult to work out when Emma Knight arrived at 5A. Assuming that she was at the Tapas complex at 22:33 when John Hill arrived she says she did some searches (10 minutes?) then Mr Hill sent her to 5A. Only Kate McCann and Fiona Payne were there, in the main bedroom, crying. The twins were asleep in the front bedroom and the door was half open. Then Gerry arrived through the patio doors with Russell. Nobody has mentioned where they had been. Emma phoned John Hill who told her the police were on their way. She says they arrived at midnight, but they say they arrived at 11pm ish.
-
Gosh, what could it all mean, eh? Only one thing: guilty. as. sin.
You really do sound like a bunch of old gossips at the garden fence imo, hope you’re enjoying yourselves.
-
According to Emma Knight John Hill called the police.
The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
According to John Hill he arrived on site at 22:33. As the first call to the police was 22:41 that makes sense. He then went to main reception to check that the police had been called. Perhaps that's when the second call was made, at 22:52.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg
Yep, and didn't one of the waiters claim to have called the police too? Anyone know what time that was ? Early on IIRC.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
ETA
I can no longer go wading thru reams of text and after about 24 hours posted, nobody has confirmed what i thought I remembered. Therefore I ask please for the mods to delete this post and any associated.
I do not wish to start any myths.
If, at any time in the future, some mention comes up of an earlier call to the Police, then maybe I will re-instate it, because I do really feel that I read it somewhere.
Thanks to Gunit and Mr General, sir. for their responces. Much appreciated.
-
Yep, and didn't one of the waiters claim to have called the police too? Anyone know what time that was ? Early on IIRC.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I've been through my extensive archive and can't find the account you refer to.
The waiter 'Campos' does mention that he overheard an English employee of the OC asking to use the phone at around 22.30, which corroborates John Hill's statement.
The two Salcedas brothers, Baptista, Oliveira, Barroso, Todorov and Young - all waiters - do not mention this in their accounts.
-
Yep, and didn't one of the waiters claim to have called the police too? Anyone know what time that was ? Early on IIRC.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I don't recall that. The receptionist mentioned someone calling him, but no phone call to the police followed;
was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm
-
I don't recall that. The receptionist mentioned someone calling him, but no phone call to the police followed;
was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm
I cannot find this account that Sadie refers to, despite my best efforts.
The exercise was not in vain, however, as I decided to strike a line through the timings discussed in all of the statements from the various kitchen / restaurant staff - 10pm seems to be the consensus of when the initial alarm / commotion / hubbub commenced according to them.
It was also useful to note that the party drank well in to the night on occasion, according to the witness testimony, sometimes until 01.00 am.
If you had a dog left alone in an unusual, foreign environment, you would start fretting about it's welfare after 3 or 4 hours, surely?
-
I cannot find this account that Sadie refers to, despite my best efforts.
The exercise was not in vain, however, as I decided to strike a line through the timings discussed in all of the statements from the various kitchen / restaurant staff - 10pm seems to be the consensus of when the initial alarm / commotion / hubbub commenced according to them.
It was also useful to note that the party drank well in to the night on occasion, according to the witness testimony, sometimes until 01.00 am.
If you had a dog left alone in an unusual, foreign environment, you would start fretting about it's welfare after 3 or 4 hours, surely?
Talking of Tom Wolfe... “ “moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity.”
-
It has just been announced that our country is in lockdown for 21 days. Since we have good weather, I decided to bring my 85-year-old Dad to the coast last Friday, to relax and say his farewell to my Mom who passed two years ago. We are 900 km from home and will make our way back on Wednesday. Thursday, midnight is cut-off.
The following: I am hesitant to upload pictures due to the negative response and hostility previously. Has it been considered that Luisa Camara Todorov’s son, Francisco Camara, might have information relating to Madeleine’s disappearance?
I will share pictures if Admin agrees.
-
It has just been announced that our country is in lockdown for 21 days. Since we have good weather, I decided to bring my 85-year-old Dad to the coast last Friday, to relax and say his farewell to my Mom who passed two years ago. We are 900 km from home and will make our way back on Wednesday. Thursday, midnight is cut-off.
The following: I am hesitant to upload pictures due to the negative response and hostility previously. Has it been considered that Luisa Camara Todorov’s son, Francisco Camara, might have information relating to Madeleine’s disappearance?
I will share pictures if Admin agrees.
Why do you think that Anthro?
-
Why do you think that Anthro?
Hallo Miss Taken, although the Bulgarian connection/Todorov/woman in purple seen by two people on the street facing 5A hours before Madeleine disappeared have been dismissed in 2017, I am wondering if there is perhaps more to it. Luisa C was a waitress at the Millennium/Mirage restaurant at the time. If I recall correctly, the group had dinner there on their first night in PdL. Her husband, Stefan T worked in the kitchen at the Tapas adjacent to 5A where the group had dinner for the remainder of their vacation. He was also responsible for the outside area, i.e. the pool, chairs at the pool etc. They all live in Almadena, which is adjacent to PdL. Luisa’s son is Francisco C, a drifter, doing drugs and travelling the world cf. his profile on Facebook, which is only accessible through his mother’s profile. I went back to Gail Cooper’s description of the charity collector for the orphanage in Espiche, and as sketched by Melissa Little. To me, there is a resemblance. I’ll share some pictures and will abide if Admin finds them inappropriate and libelous. Ps. José de Silva, the Ocean Club driver, identified by Heri through the mobile records, was doing the run to and from to Faro Airport, is a facebook friend of F. Camara.
-
.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Hallo Miss Taken, although the Bulgarian connection/Todorov/woman in purple seen by two people on the street facing 5A hours before Madeleine disappeared have been dismissed in 2017, I am wondering if there is perhaps more to it. Luisa C was a waitress at the Millennium/Mirage restaurant at the time. If I recall correctly, the group had dinner there on their first night in PdL. Her husband, Stefan T worked in the kitchen at the Tapas adjacent to 5A where the group had dinner for the remainder of their vacation. He was also responsible for the outside area, i.e. the pool, chairs at the pool etc. They all live in Almadena, which is adjacent to PdL. Luisa’s son is Francisco C, a drifter, doing drugs and travelling the world cf. his profile on Facebook, which is only accessible through his mother’s profile. I went back to Gail Cooper’s description of the charity collector for the orphanage in Espiche, and as sketched by Melissa Little. To me, there is a resemblance. I’ll share some pictures and will abide if Admin finds them inappropriate and libelous. Ps. José de Silva, the Ocean Club driver, identified by Heri through the mobile records, was doing the run to and from to Faro Airport, is a facebook friend of F. Camara.
Hi Anthro,
thank you for taking the time to explain that- it is very interesting and worthy of discussion. I always though the woman in purple was Jane T with her fleece.
I am not convinced of all the likeness apart from #4.
-
Anthro- I am left wondering what their involvement could be...
What do you believe happened to MBM- why was she taken, and was she taken from the street or the apartment as described by the parents?
-
Anthro;
The Todorov's both worked at the Millenium restaurant.
-
Anthro- I am left wondering what their involvement could be...
What do you believe happened to MBM- why was she taken, and was she taken from the street or the apartment as described by the parents?
Miss Taken, I don’t know but there are things not adding up, for me: it has been said that Stefan Todorov is deceased, yet there is a profile for him since 2017 with two pictures and one friend commenting ‘finally!’. Luisa’s profile states that she is married since 2006 and that he is the love of her life. Then there is the Anna Stam sighting during the first part of May 2007 in Amsterdam, the girl saying she is ‘Maggie’, ‘Maddie’, they took me from my holiday, do you know where my Mom is ..
-
Anthro;
The Todorov's both worked at the Millenium restaurant.
Hallo G-Unit, not according to Stefan’s statement in the PJ files?
-
.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Hallo G-Unit, not according to Stefan’s statement in the PJ files?
Where does he say he worked at the Tapas restaurant?
-
Hallo Miss Taken, although the Bulgarian connection/Todorov/woman in purple seen by two people on the street facing 5A hours before Madeleine disappeared have been dismissed in 2017, I am wondering if there is perhaps more to it. Luisa C was a waitress at the Millennium/Mirage restaurant at the time. If I recall correctly, the group had dinner there on their first night in PdL. Her husband, Stefan T worked in the kitchen at the Tapas adjacent to 5A where the group had dinner for the remainder of their vacation. He was also responsible for the outside area, i.e. the pool, chairs at the pool etc. They all live in Almadena, which is adjacent to PdL. Luisa’s son is Francisco C, a drifter, doing drugs and travelling the world cf. his profile on Facebook, which is only accessible through his mother’s profile. I went back to Gail Cooper’s description of the charity collector for the orphanage in Espiche, and as sketched by Melissa Little. To me, there is a resemblance. I’ll share some pictures and will abide if Admin finds them inappropriate and libelous. Ps. José de Silva, the Ocean Club driver, identified by Heri through the mobile records, was doing the run to and from to Faro Airport, is a facebook friend of F. Camara.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEFAN_TODOROV.htm
-
Where does he say he worked at the Tapas restaurant?
It doesn't say directly, but they talk of the OC swimming pools and then the restaurant near that. That logically would be the swimming pools at OC and Tapas restaurant, surely.
"Place of Work: Oficina Vasco da Gama Lagos & Ocean Club
Has worked at the OC since 31/03/2007 part-time, he works four hours a day as a waiter. He works every day from 20.00 - 24.00 and has Sundays off.
As a waiter he always begins work at the Club's swimming pool, tidying the chairs around the pool and collecting the rubbish bags. Then he goes to the restaurant kitchen where he begins to do the washing up and tasks connected with the preparation of meals.
He does not have contact with the restaurant's clients, from the moment he enters the kitchen he remains there until the restaurant is closed at 24.00. He only has contact with clients and sees them when he is doing his rounds of the pool.
The previous year he also worked at the OC restaurant for a period of six months, doing the same work."
-
It doesn't say directly, but they talk of the OC swimming pools and then the restaurant near that. That logically would be the swimming pools at OC and Tapas restaurant, surely.
"Place of Work: Oficina Vasco da Gama Lagos & Ocean Club
Has worked at the OC since 31/03/2007 part-time, he works four hours a day as a waiter. He works every day from 20.00 - 24.00 and has Sundays off.
As a waiter he always begins work at the Club's swimming pool, tidying the chairs around the pool and collecting the rubbish bags. Then he goes to the restaurant kitchen where he begins to do the washing up and tasks connected with the preparation of meals.
He does not have contact with the restaurant's clients, from the moment he enters the kitchen he remains there until the restaurant is closed at 24.00. He only has contact with clients and sees them when he is doing his rounds of the pool.
The previous year he also worked at the OC restaurant for a period of six months, doing the same work."
His employment appears to me to have been as a bit of 'Jack of all trades' in nature and as far as I can see it would be rather difficult to pin down his location at any given time.
He has legitimate and as a member of staff invisible freedom of movement in the immediate area frequented by the McCann family.
He is not listed with the other Millenium staff ...
Witness Statement
Luisa Maria Camara Todorov
Date: 2007/05/08
Occupation: Waitress
Place of Work: OC Millenium Restaurant.
______________________________________
Witness Statement
Date: 2007/05/07
Stefan Kotsev Todorov
Occupation: Car painter/ Waiter
Place of Work: Oficina Vasco da Gama Lagos & Ocean Club
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm
Only his wife, who apparently is not the widow of the tabloids, associates his employment with the Millenium restaurant ... in my opinion he doesn't in his only statement and neither do the files.
-
I can see no reason why his wife would lie about where her husband worked, and he's not included in the list of Tapas staff either.
-
I can see no reason why his wife would lie about where her husband worked, and he's not included in the list of Tapas staff either.
people lie to cover things up
-
people lie to cover things up
Only if they've got something to hide. This guy worked at the Millenium, not the Tapas.
-
Only if they've got something to hide. This guy worked at the Millenium, not the Tapas.
Apart from his wife's statement ... where is the cite confirming your supposition?
-
Only if they've got something to hide. This guy worked at the Millenium, not the Tapas.
The woman is believed to be 58-year-old waitress Luisa Todorov.
Luisa’s husband, 50-year-old Stefan Todorov, had been working at the tapas restaurant where Kate and Gerry McCann had been dining with friends on the night of Maddie’s disappearance.
Five days after the suspected abduction, both Luisa and Stefan gave statements to the Portuguese police, as standard procedure – Luisa’s statement revealed how she’d been employed at the Millennium restaurant, where she worked day shifts. (Unilad.co.uk)
-
Only if they've got something to hide. This guy worked at the Millenium, not the Tapas.
Were there swimming pools at the Millenium?
-
Were there swimming pools at the Millenium?
Nope.
-
Apart from his wife's statement ... where is the cite confirming your supposition?
Wife's statement http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LOUISA_TODOROV.htm
-
Were there swimming pools at the Millenium?
Yes, a big one. Number 1 on the map;
(https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/oceanclubmap3.gif)
-
And that map also shows if anybody was heading from the apartment straight to the sea they would end up at the rocks or "My Rocks" as KM named them.
"And there would be several visits to ‘my rocks’ – a quiet part of the beach away from the promenade…here I would simply sob to a friend on the ’phone for hours on end…I still go back there on my visits to Praia da Luz to be on my own” from Madeleine by Kate McCann
-
Hallo G-Unit, not according to Stefan’s statement in the PJ files?
The PJ files list Stefan Todorov as an Ocean Club employee, and his wife Luisa Camara Todorov as an employee at the Millennium. This indicates that they worked at separate establishments?
-
The PJ files list Stefan Todorov as an Ocean Club employee, and his wife Luisa Camara Todorov as an employee at the Millennium. This indicates that they worked at separate establishments?
It means that he wasn't placed at a location because it doesn't say, in his statement, where he worked.
-
It means that he wasn't placed at a location because it doesn't say, in his statement, where he worked.
Do we know who tidied the pool area at Tapas Bar in the evenings? Stefan started work at 8pm, Luisa finished her shift at 6.30pm. I always thought there was nothing suspicious if Luisa had been seen outside Tapas Bar at 8pm & her husband had just begun a shift there. Had both been working solely at the Mill then that would put a different perspective on Luisa's possible presence near 5A.
-
Do we know who tidied the pool area at Tapas Bar in the evenings? Stefan started work at 8pm, Luisa finished her shift at 6.30pm. I always thought there was nothing suspicious if Luisa had been seen outside Tapas Bar at 8pm & her husband had just begun a shift there. Had both been working solely at the Mill then that would put a different perspective on Luisa's possible presence near 5A.
Was she seen near the Tapas complex?
-
Was she seen near the Tapas complex?
She/woman in purple, was seen on the corner of the street by independent witnesses, Jenny Murat and Jeremy Wilkens hours before Madeleine went missing. Police withheld her name but it is believed she had a connection with a worker at the resort. I will look for the reference.
-
She/woman in purple, was seen on the corner of the street by independent witnesses, Jenny Murat and Jeremy Wilkens hours before Madeleine went missing. Police withheld her name but it is believed she had a connection with a worker at the resort. I will look for the reference.
A woman in purple was seen by Jenny Murat at 8pm, although she never reported it to the police in her statement dated 15th May 2007.
Here's Jeremy Wilkin's rog statement:
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
-
Nothing to see here move along please.
Luisa Todorov has denied she is 'the woman in purple' at the centre of the investigation into missing Madeleine McCann
She says she was quizzed within days of Maddie's disappearance and would be willing to co-operate further, but is unsure of how useful she would be.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5113205/Maddie-McCann-Waitress-DENIES-woman-purple.html
-
Jez saw the woman in purple aka Jane Tanner. She had long black hair according to Jenny Murat aka Jane Tanner.
-
Jez saw the woman in purple aka Jane Tanner. She had long black hair according to Jenny Murat aka Jane Tanner.
(https://li0.rightinthebox.com/images/190x250/201506/zaabsq1434252735334.jpg)
Easy enough to change appearance for example by wearing a wig ... wasn't Mrs Murat's attention drawn to the woman she saw because she appeared to be trying to keep a low profile.
-
It means that he wasn't placed at a location because it doesn't say, in his statement, where he worked.
Tapas:
• Tiago Barreiros - Supervisor
• Miguel Coelho - Chef
• Maria Jose - Cook
• Svetlana Vitorino - Kitchen Assistant
• Joelson Lucio - Kitchen worker
• Aritson Lucio - Kitchen Worker
• Stefan Kotsev Todorov - Waiter (sic) / Kitchen Worker
• Tiago de Freitas - Barman
• Jeronimo Salcedas - Bar/Waiter
• Nuno Bernardo - Waiter
• Joao Agapito - Waiter
• Joaquim Batista – Waiter
http://genreith.de/MMcC/doku.php?id=ocean_club_staff&s[]=stefan&s[]=kotsev&s[]=todorov
-
Jez saw the woman in purple aka Jane Tanner. She had long black hair according to Jenny Murat aka Jane Tanner.
Jenny Murat’s description of the woman included ‘slight’ and ‘thin’. To me, this doesn’t fit a description of Jane Tanner.
-
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/exterior-shots-of-gerry-and-kate-mccann-departing-the-news-footage/487715646?adppopup=true
From 38sec, Jenny Murat walking along the pavement (red top) past the "woman in purple" on morning of 4th May 2007. That's the same Jane Tanner who later was reported to have identified JM's son as Tannerman based on his gait.
Media reports quoted Jenny saying she didn't recognise the woman in purple so it's highly unlikely to have been Jane Tanner - or Luisa Todorov.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3469215/madeleine-mccann-disappearance-latest-theory-woman-in-car/
-
Luisa has denied it and did she have long black hair? Her hair is curly from recent pics.
-
Jenny Murat’s description of the woman included ‘slight’ and ‘thin’. To me, this doesn’t fit a description of Jane Tanner.
Do you think she looks fat? Nonsense! The woman in purple was Jane Tanner.
Jane Tanner in PDL
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/G/03_volume%20III_apensoVIII_Page568a.jpg)
-
Do you think she looks fat? Nonsense! The woman in purple was Jane Tanner.
Jane Tanner in PDL
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/G/03_volume%20III_apensoVIII_Page568a.jpg)
The fact that she doesn’t look ‘thin’ (to me at least), doesn’t mean she is fat. Those are your words. She surely is not ‘slight’. Is it known that Jane Tanner has been hanging around block 5 before Madeleine disappeared?
-
Yes Jez Wilkins is the witness. Her mobile records also reveal that she was using it at that time.
"I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
The raw telecom data provided to OP TASK shows that the mobile phone attributed to Jane TANNER (0780854191) was in contact with mobile number 07949731844 at 20:30:21 hrs on 3rd May 2007
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_MOBILE.htm
-
Yes Jez Wilkins is the witness. Her mobile records also reveal that she was using it at that time.
"I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
The raw telecom data provided to OP TASK shows that the mobile phone attributed to Jane TANNER (0780854191) was in contact with mobile number 07949731844 at 20:30:21 hrs on 3rd May 2007
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_MOBILE.htm
That call was made to Charlotte Gorrod?
-
Yes Jez Wilkins is the witness. Her mobile records also reveal that she was using it at that time.
"I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
The raw telecom data provided to OP TASK shows that the mobile phone attributed to Jane TANNER (0780854191) was in contact with mobile number 07949731844 at 20:30:21 hrs on 3rd May 2007
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_MOBILE.htm
What about Jenny Murat’s memory of whom she saw? A woman, wearing a skirt, trying to hide herself around a lamppost. [my summary]. Jane Tanner does not come across as someone wearing a skirt on holiday?
-
What about Jenny Murat’s memory of whom she saw? A woman, wearing a skirt, trying to hide herself around a lamppost. [my summary]. Jane Tanner does not come across as someone wearing a skirt on holiday?
And what possible reason would Jane have had to try to hide herself? She was perfectly entitled to be seen either outside her holiday accommodation or in the vicinity thereof.
The problem appears to be that whatever innocuous, legitimate or normal action taken by any of the McCann party, it is portrayed as at the least "suspicious" but the behaviour of strangers reportedly 'hanging around' in the immediate vicinity of a property soon to become a crime scene are totally ignored or excused. Quite bizarre!
-
She was most likely reading and replying to her friends text message (Charlotte in
That call was made to Charlotte Gorrod?
Yes see Jane's rog. She was most likely reading and replying to her text message outside the apartments when Jez noticed her there dressed in purple. Do you think there were two woman in purple at that time at the same location? Time to leave fantasy land!
-
She was most likely reading and replying to her friends text message (Charlotte in
Yes see Jane's rog. She was most likely reading and replying to her text message outside the apartments when Jez noticed her there dressed in purple. Do you think there were two woman in purple at that time in the same location? Time to leave fantasy land!
So which car was Jenny driving when she saw the woman in purple & how do you correlate the time of the sighting with both the 8pm closing time of Baptista & Jenny arriving home at around the same time as Robert? (see statement 15/5/07 https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JENNIFER-MURAT.htm). Robert said he arrived home between 7.15 & 7.30pm in his first statement
-
So which car was Jenny driving when she saw the woman in purple & how do you correlate the time of the sighting with both the 8pm closing time of Baptista & Jenny arriving home at around the same time as Robert? (see statement 15/5/07 https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JENNIFER-MURAT.htm). Robert said he arrived home between 7.15 & 7.30pm in his first statement
About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JENNIFER-MURAT.htm
She said in reports that she was on her way back from the supermarket when she spotted the woman in purple.
-
About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JENNIFER-MURAT.htm
She said in reports that she was on her way back from the supermarket when she spotted the woman in purple.
Baptista closed at 8pm. How long would it have taken JM to make that short drive up Rua FdG Martins & what car was she driving?
-
And what possible reason would Jane have had to try to hide herself? She was perfectly entitled to be seen either outside her holiday accommodation or in the vicinity thereof.
The problem appears to be that whatever innocuous, legitimate or normal action taken by any of the McCann party, it is portrayed as at the least "suspicious" but the behaviour of strangers reportedly 'hanging around' in the immediate vicinity of a property soon to become a crime scene are totally ignored or excused. Quite bizarre!
The Very same can be said of any one that was going about their daily business and trying to retro fit them into something suspicious like an alleged abduction by amateur sleuths. St Mary Mead is where it belongs.
-
The Very same can be said of any one that was going about their daily business and trying to retro fit them into something suspicious like an alleged abduction by amateur sleuths. St Mary Mead is where it belongs.
But the likelihood of an abduction has been confirmed by the professional sleuths
-
But the likelihood of an abduction has been confirmed by the professional sleuths
Only the blinkered SY sleuths.
-
Only the blinkered SY sleuths.
i dont think they are blinkered at all....I think its the sceptics who are blinkered.
-
Baptista closed at 8pm. How long would it have taken JM to make that short drive up Rua FdG Martins & what car was she driving?
Have you asked Jenny Murat that question? Ask the witness because I wasn't with her. She may have talked to somebody. You don't know what actually happened until you ask the witness.
I left about 8:15 to 8:30 pm. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
Do you believe that within 15 minutes there are two women in purple with long black hair at the same location? What are the chances? All this should have been cleared long ago!
-
Have you asked Jenny Murat that question? Ask the witness because I wasn't with her. She may have talked to somebody. You don't know what actually happened until you ask the witness.
I left about 8:15 to 8:30 pm. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
Do you believe that within 15 minutes there are two women in purple with long black hair at the same location? What are the chances? All this should have been cleared long ago!
Oh Dear. Do you think that Goncalo Amaral didn't do this?
-
Oh Dear. Do you think that Goncalo Amaral didn't do this?
Jane Tanner seen dressed in purple was first reported by Jez Wilkins on 8 April 2008 so how would Amaral know about it when he was working on the case in 2007?
The woman in purple just like Tannerman should have been cleared long ago!
-
Oh Dear. Do you think that Goncalo Amaral didn't do this?
Did you expect the PJ to read the UK newspapers and track down and question everyone who gave them stories? Jenny Murat mentioned nothing in her statement to the PJ about this woman in purple.
-
Did you expect the PJ to read the UK newspapers and track down and question everyone who gave them stories? Jenny Murat mentioned nothing in her statement to the PJ about this woman in purple.
I expected Goncalo to do a very much better job than he actually did. In fact it was abysmal. I can't help wondering why.
-
I expected Goncalo to do a very much better job than he actually did. In fact it was abysmal. I can't help wondering why.
i think it could have something to do with the amount of alcohol he drank at lunch and after work...no one can function at a reasonable level with that sort of behaviour
-
The Very same can be said of any one that was going about their daily business and trying to retro fit them into something suspicious like an alleged abduction by amateur sleuths. St Mary Mead is where it belongs.
Do the "amateurs" to whom you refer include the Judicial Police who reopened Madeleine's investigation to make the attempt to find out who kidnapped her?
Judiciária confirma reabertura do caso Maddie
Judiciary confirms reopening of Maddie case
A Policia Judiciaria voltou a abrir a investigação ao caso Maddie, a menina Inglesa desaparecida em 2007 de um aldeamento na praia da Luz, no Algarve.
The Judicial Police once again opened the investigation into the case of Maddie, the English girl who disappeared in 2007 from a village on Praia da Luz, in the Algarve.
Depois de questionado este orgão de investigação criminal responde em comunicado que "esta investigação tem sido desenvolvida em articulação com autoridades internacionais, obedecendo às regras de cooperação judiciária e policial, que as circunstâncias da situação justificam".
After being questioned, this criminal investigation body replies in a statement that "this investigation has been carried out in conjunction with international authorities, obeying the rules of judicial and police cooperation, which the circumstances of the situation justify".
Para já a Policia Judiciaria não presta mais esclarecimentos.
For the time being the Judiciary Police does not provide further clarification.
O esclarecimento da Judiciária surge depois de, nesta sexta-feira, o jornal "Correio da Manhã" ter dado conta de que esta policia segue novas pistas de rapto e que os inspectores procuram um suspeito de ter levado a criança.
The clarification of the Judiciary comes after this Friday, the newspaper "Correio da Manhã" reported that this police is following new kidnapping tracks and that the inspectors are looking for a suspect of having taken the child.
https://rr.sapo.pt/2019/05/03/pais/judiciaria-confirma-reabertura-do-caso-maddie/noticia/150075/
-
Only the blinkered SY sleuths.
You are wrong. Are the Juddicial Police 'blinkered' too? Or how else do you think Euclides Monteiro came into the equation?
-
I expected Goncalo to do a very much better job than he actually did. In fact it was abysmal. I can't help wondering why.
In my opinion merely reading the statements taken from the Ocean Club employees really shows up just how poor the investigation actually was ... they contain very little useful detail which could be used to collate everyone's whereabouts.
Investigation seems to have been concentrated on the timeline drawn up by the McCann friends to the exclusion of everyone else making what should have been a model for everyone in the vicinity into an impediment and a hook to hang suspicion on.
-
You are wrong. Are the Juddicial Police 'blinkered' too? Or how else do you think Euclides Monteiro came into the equation?
Q:Do you accept the girl was abducted;
Do Carmo:we dont know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.
Meanwhile in the real world another 209 die in the uk because of the virus,puts into perspective.
-
Q:Do you accept the girl was abducted;
Do Carmo:we dont know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.
Meanwhile in the real world another 209 die in the uk because of the virus,puts into perspective.
Do Carmo also said the parents are not suspects and there's no evidence against them....I think most of us realise the mccann controversy is of no real importance now..
-
Q:Do you accept the girl was abducted;
Do Carmo:we dont know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.
Meanwhile in the real world another 209 die in the uk because of the virus,puts into perspective.
In the real world life goes on and when the present pandemic has run its course we will expect the rule of law and order to remain in place ... what sort of 'real world' scenario will you be content to live in if evidence and therefore JUSTICE is ignored in a missing child case.
-
In the real world life goes on and when the present pandemic has run its course we will expect the rule of law and order to remain in place ... what sort of 'real world' scenario will you be content to live in if evidence and therefore JUSTICE is ignored in a missing child case.
One that gives equal consideration to all available evidence.
-
In the real world life goes on and when the present pandemic has run its course we will expect the rule of law and order to remain in place ... what sort of 'real world' scenario will you be content to live in if evidence and therefore JUSTICE is ignored in a missing child case.
Justice will be served when a health service and police force will be replenished and run to a standard that it can cope with out the need to call on retirees,austerity! you ain't seen nothing yet.
-
Justice will be served when a health service and police force will be replenished and run to a standard that it can cope with out the need to call on retirees,austerity! you ain't seen nothing yet.
I think you may very well have brought your thoughts and fears concerning covid-19 et al to entirely the wrong board and the wrong thread.
-
Are there any thoughts/views on the possibility that the ‘charity collector’ and ‘Smithman’ plotted Madeleine’s disappearance?
-
Are there any thoughts/views on the possibility that the ‘charity collector’ and ‘Smithman’ plotted Madeleine’s disappearance?
I think it was planned, Anthro, but I've no idea by whom. Neither the 'charity collector' or 'Smithman' have been located so can't be ruled in or ruled out.
-
Are there any thoughts/views on the possibility that the ‘charity collector’ and ‘Smithman’ plotted Madeleine’s disappearance?
I think so. But the rest of my thoughts are libellous without further information as I cannot prove them.
I wouldn't half like to get a sight of the cell phone records of certain people.
-
I think so. But the rest of my thoughts are libellous without further information as I cannot prove them.
I wouldn't half like to get a sight of the cell phone records of certain people.
There are two cell phones which were never looked at as far as I know; the ones David Payne's friends brought to Potimao police station on 4th May.
-
There are two cell phones which were never looked at as far as I know; the ones David Payne's friends brought to Potimao police station on 4th May.
Why would they need looking at, in your view?
-
Are there any thoughts/views on the possibility that the ‘charity collector’ and ‘Smithman’ plotted Madeleine’s disappearance?
I think there is some sort of connection Anthro. If the men were legitimate charity collectors, why haven't they come forward to say so?
-
Why would they need looking at, in your view?
The same reason other phones were looked at.
-
The same reason other phones were looked at.
Would those have included the cell-phones of the nice cuddly burglars who became the latest arguidos in Madeleine's disappearance, do you think?
Or even the phone of the disgruntled sacked employee whose existence in an email sent to Prince Charles office caused the apoplectic outburst which got Amaral sacked?
-
There are two cell phones which were never looked at as far as I know; the ones David Payne's friends brought to Potimao police station on 4th May.
Do you have a reference/number for the other phone, please?
-
The same reason other phones were looked at.
You think David Payne's acquaintance brought potentially incriminating mobile phones to the police station on the 4th May? How very stupid of him!
-
Phones could contain potential evidence so why not? Everything should be examined in an unsolved case especially after they suspiciously deleted records from their mobiles. And they receive new ones - nothing to see here move on @)(++(*
-
Phones could contain potential evidence so why not? Everything should be examined in an unsolved case especially after they suspiciously deleted records from their mobiles. And they receive new ones - nothing to see here move on @)(++(*
How much longer before the McCanns are arrested in your view? Those police guys are taking their time aren’t they?
-
How much longer before the McCanns are arrested in your view? Those police guys are taking their time aren’t they?
I have no idea what they are doing so who knows.
-
Are there any thoughts/views on the possibility that the ‘charity collector’ and ‘Smithman’ plotted Madeleine’s disappearance?
In addition to the post.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
In addition to the post.
I have not thought Smithman was of any relevance for quite some time, Anthro. But I would like to know who the 'charity collectors' were and any others acting suspiciously who haven't yet been traced.
-
I have not thought Smithman was of any relevance for quite some time, Anthro. But I would like to know who the 'charity collectors' were and any others acting suspiciously who haven't yet been traced.
I’ll send you a pm, Brietta.
-
These e-fits are presumably of the same person. Does anyone know which members of the Smith family contributed to each e-fit?
-
In addition to the post.
#
(https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11042.0;attach=17534;image)
Soz, don't know how to make these images larger.
1. If the missing L.H. part of Smithmans chin is pencilled in to match the RH side of his face, then there is quite a likeness between Smithman (bottom left) and the man 'X' in the photo (bottom right). Smithmans eyes are a bit wider set than 'X's eyes, but everything else fits pretty well, Imo
From the look of the bright wide eyes, I have always thought that this was the image given by Aoife … and the brightness in the look was a young man encountering an attractive young woman, who was likewise attracted to him. I believe that a sudden attraction causes the eyes to open wider
A massive street lamp was positioned close behind Aoife and she would have got a very clear view of Smithmans face as he walked straight towards it. The e-fit image is very clear.
2. Looking closely at the photo of 'X' (bottom RH image), one can see a friends face partly showing.
I.M.O this part face is the face of the man in the top RH Image. I should know who he is, Anthro., but I have forgotten Is he the pig farmer? … or is he the animal cremation man ? … or is he the son of a certain Lady who worked at Ocean Club ?
This is remarkably interesting when one considers other extraordinary things that you have shown me, privately … most especially so, if he is the son of the lady that works at O.C.
Very well done Anthro, seems that you are a brilliant sleuth, but we still do not know anything for sure. I think that SY should know everything pertinent that you have told me privately (which was amazing) and also these images, which seem to link. They can judge.
-
Soz, don't know how to make these images larger.
1. If the missing L.H. part of Smithmans chin is pencilled in to match the RH side of his face, then there is quite a likeness between Smithman (bottom left) and the man 'X' in the photo (bottom right). Smithmans eyes are a bit wider set than 'X's eyes, but everything else fits pretty well, Imo
From the look of the bright wide eyes, I have always thought that this was the image given by Aoife … and the brightness in the look was a young man encountering an attractive young woman, who was likewise attracted to him. I believe that a sudden attraction causes the eyes to open wider
A massive street lamp was positioned close behind Aoife and she would have got a very clear view of Smithmans face as he walked straight towards it. The e-fit image is very clear.
2. Looking closely at the photo of 'X' (bottom RH image), one can see a friends face partly showing.
I.M.O this part face is the face of the man in the top RH Image. I should know who he is, Anthro., but I have forgotten Is he the pig farmer? … or is he the animal cremation man ? … or is he the son of a certain Lady who worked at Ocean Club ?
This is remarkably interesting when one considers other extraordinary things that you have shown me, privately … most especially so, if he is the son of the lady that works at O.C.
Very well done Anthro, seems that you are a brilliant sleuth, but we still do not know anything for sure. I think that SY should know everything pertinent that you have told me privately (which was amazing) and also these images, which seem to link. They can judge.
Hi Sadie
Thank you for your feedback. Attached is a picture of the same man and the other Smithman efit. I would like to know what you and other members’ thoughts are on this. The picture of the Cooperman efit’s mother was working at the Millennium and his stepfather at (presumably) the Tapas in 2007.
-
Raymond Hewlett has been suspected of being involved. Please see attached pictures. Has he been mistakenly id’d?
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Hi Sadie
Thank you for your feedback. Attached is a picture of the same man and the other Smithman efit. I would like to know what you and other members’ thoughts are on this. The picture of the Cooperman efit’s mother was working at the Millennium and his stepfather at (presumably) the Tapas in 2007.
Hi Anthro, the images could be clearer, but well done for finding them and pairing them
I can't say with either of the above pairings, that I see a convincing likeness. In fact with the Raymond Hewett pairing, I think that they are not the same man.
I judge these on different criteria to the images on that you showed on May 24th. Of the four images that you posted on May 24th two were artists sketches/ electronically produced images that almost certainly would not have a photographic likeness, but a likeness was there never-the-less IMO.
These latest images are actual photos, so they must match completely and as far as I can see they do not.
Sorry Anthro, but they are not very distinct, so maybe you should "put-them-on-the-back-burner to keep warm" in case other photos of the men compared come up, which prove me wrong.
-
Raymond Hewlett has been suspected of being involved. Please see attached pictures. Has he been mistakenly id’d?
I think the Police were comparing the picture of the man with the moustache in relation to Hewlett Anthro.
-
Hi Sadie
Thank you for your feedback. Attached is a picture of the same man and the other Smithman efit. I would like to know what you and other members’ thoughts are on this. The picture of the Cooperman efit’s mother was working at the Millennium and his stepfather at (presumably) the Tapas in 2007.
I think there is a strong resemblance Anthro.
-
These e-fits are presumably of the same person. Does anyone know which members of the Smith family contributed to each e-fit?
You can find the answer to your question here. https://twitter.com/adriangatton/status/960169439986626560
(Gatton was a friend of the deceased Halligen whose firm reportedly commissioned the efits)
-
The problem with these photographs is context. When were they taken ? What do the individuals look like now ? The young man with the dreadlocks may look a bit like Melissa Little’s sketch, if you squint, but if the photos are recent then this man who appears to be in his late twenties, thirty at the most would only have been in his early teens at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance.
I’m also uncomfortable seeing photographs that were obviously not posted to be shared across the internet being used to suggest wrongdoing.
-
In addition to the post.
Is it just me or does the third picture resemble GM?
-
Is it just me or does the third picture resemble GM?
Is there any chance at all that we can have a day without innuendo about any members of a family which has just lost a dearly loved matriarch and has to cope with the German police broadcasting that they think their missing daughter is dead without further explanation.
I cannot imagine what they are going through but now that the sceptics on this forum have learned the meaning of the presumption of innocence and adopted it there should be less crap to the contrary posted here. Thank you
-
Is there any chance at all that we can have a day without innuendo about any members of a family which has just lost a dearly loved matriarch and has to cope with the German police broadcasting that they think their missing daughter is dead without further explanation.
I cannot imagine what they are going through but now that the sceptics on this forum have learned the meaning of the presumption of innocence and adopted it there should be less crap to the contrary posted here. Thank you
Away with you, the thread about a supposed German suspect if full of nothing but.
(Got me space El)
-
Is there any chance at all that we can have a day without innuendo about any members of a family which has just lost a dearly loved matriarch and has to cope with the German police broadcasting that they think their missing daughter is dead without further explanation.
I cannot imagine what they are going through but now that the sceptics on this forum have learned the meaning of the presumption of innocence and adopted it there should be less crap to the contrary posted here. Thank you
It would be helpful if the innuendo about others was to cease. Otherwise it looks like this 'presumption of innocence' applies only to certain people. In my opinion, of course, it applies only to those charged with an offence.
-
It would be helpful if the innuendo about others was to cease. Otherwise it looks like this 'presumption of innocence' applies only to certain people. In my opinion, of course, it applies only to those charged with an offence.
Is that an agreement with my post? ... I'm sorry, I can't tell.
-
It would be helpful if the innuendo about others was to cease. Otherwise it looks like this 'presumption of innocence' applies only to certain people. In my opinion, of course, it applies only to those charged with an offence.
It seems therefore that accusing people of committing horrendous crimes before they are charged with them is A-OK by you?
-
It seems therefore that accusing people of committing horrendous crimes before they are charged with them is A-OK by you?
To clarify; I do not approve of photos of anyone being posted alongside photos or photofits of people of interest in an investigation. That infers that they are the person of interest without any evidence of it being offered.
-
To clarify; I do not approve of photos of anyone being posted alongside photos or photofits of people of interest in an investigation. That infers that they are the person of interest without any evidence of it being offered.
So you must REALLY despair when pictures of Gerry are posted alongside pictures of the Smithman photofit. Only, in reality of course you don’t.
-
So you must REALLY despair when pictures of Gerry are posted alongside pictures of the Smithman photofit. Only, in reality of course you don’t.
Also depicting the couple as not grieving/happy.
-
So you must REALLY despair when pictures of Gerry are posted alongside pictures of the Smithman photofit. Only, in reality of course you don’t.
There is evidence suggesting that he was the man seen by the witnesses who compiled the efits, so that's different. Afaik none of those recently targeted had anything to do with the case.
-
There is evidence suggesting that he was the man seen by the witnesses who compiled the efits, so that's different. Afaik none of those recently targeted had anything to do with the case.
What evidence?
-
What evidence?
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
-
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
Mr McCluskey made exactly the same mistake of mis-identification that Mr Smith did ... and very likely for exactly the same reason.
Snip
I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.
I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
-
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
MS was also 20% to 40% unsure it was Gerry he saw carrying a child in long-sleeved pyjamas - a child MS couldn't identify at all as being Madeleine.
-
MS was also 20% to 40% unsure it was Gerry he saw carrying a child in long-sleeved pyjamas - a child MS couldn't identify at all as being Madeleine.
His evidence still connects Gerry McCann to the efits. Where is the evidence connecting the other people whose photos have been posted on this thread?
-
There is evidence suggesting that he was the man seen by the witnesses who compiled the efits, so that's different. Afaik none of those recently targeted had anything to do with the case.
There is also evidence that Gerry was at the restaurant at the time, so you’re being somewhat selective with your evidence.
-
There is also evidence that Gerry was at the restaurant at the time, so you’re being somewhat selective with your evidence.
IMO much of that evidence isn't reliable because timelines and the apparent inconsistencies have not been robustly tested.
-
MS was also 20% to 40% unsure it was Gerry he saw carrying a child in long-sleeved pyjamas - a child MS couldn't identify at all as being Madeleine.
Redwood:Carrying a child with a description very close to that of Madeleine Mccann.
What are the chances,one child not accounted for.
-
His evidence still connects Gerry McCann to the efits. Where is the evidence connecting the other people whose photos have been posted on this thread?
Almost word for word, so does Mr McCluskey's.
Martin Smith and Richard McCluskey both saw a man carrying a child on the night Madeleine disappeared so both had an interest in the case.
There was saturation media coverage some of which was pejorative ... in which there were many occasions when Kate and Gerry were seen with their twins.
It was only when Kate and Gerry were made suspects that both men made the mistaken association.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3eI-OuMxsbU/WLVroTsF4-I/AAAAAAAArIA/yXnuC9CfqQ4ps2goPx6kcaA4z4p38s5BwCLcB/s1600/madeleine%2Bfamilia.jpg)
I think it is as plain as the nose on your face exactly what factors influenced both men.
-
IMO much of that evidence isn't reliable because timelines and the apparent inconsistencies have not been robustly tested.
Please name some of the 'inconsistencies' with provenance, to which you refer.
-
IMO much of that evidence isn't reliable because timelines and the apparent inconsistencies have not been robustly tested.
Oh, but you think the Smiths evidence is reliable because...?
-
Almost word for word, so does Mr McCluskey's.
Martin Smith and Richard McCluskey both saw a man carrying a child on the night Madeleine disappeared so both had an interest in the case.
There was saturation media coverage some of which was pejorative ... in which there were many occasions when Kate and Gerry were seen with their twins.
It was only when Kate and Gerry were made suspects that both men made the mistaken association.
The Smith sighting was on Thursday 3rd May. Richard McClusky's sighting of the Ukranians was on Saturday 5th May.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3eI-OuMxsbU/WLVroTsF4-I/AAAAAAAArIA/yXnuC9CfqQ4ps2goPx6kcaA4z4p38s5BwCLcB/s1600/madeleine%2Bfamilia.jpg)
I think it is as plain as the nose on your face exactly what factors influenced both men.
Mr Smith's sighting was on 3rd May in PdL, Mr McClusky's on 5th May in Alvor.
-
Oh, but you think the Smiths evidence is reliable because...?
He just gives what imo is an honest account of what he saw. He substantiates the time of the sighting as it can be linked to a bar receipt with the time on it.
-
Please name some of the 'inconsistencies' with provenance, to which you refer.
One would be the time and length of David Payne's visit to the McCann's apartment on the evening she went missing. This varies between seconds and half an hour depending whose statement you believe is more accurate.
-
He just gives what imo is an honest account of what he saw. He substantiates the time of the sighting as it can be linked to a bar receipt with the time on it.
And yet it took him how many weeks to come forward? And apart from his wife none of the rest if his party thought it looked like Gerry iirc. And he took grest pains to stress that it wasn’t Robert Murat - why? What was his connection with Murat? And why when compiling the photofit did he not just tell the investigators to draw a picture of Gerry McCann if he was so certain thst is who he saw? There are plenty of question marks about his account imo.
-
He just gives what imo is an honest account of what he saw. He substantiates the time of the sighting as it can be linked to a bar receipt with the time on it.
I think you are wrong there. Unless you can say exactly what the connection between the receipt and the Smiths might be.
Bearing in mind it was the Rebelo investigation that went to the bother of checking the Smith's story I think it confirms that Amaral was less than bothered.
-
Almost word for word, so does Mr McCluskey's.
Martin Smith and Richard McCluskey both saw a man carrying a child on the night Madeleine disappeared so both had an interest in the case.
There was saturation media coverage some of which was pejorative ... in which there were many occasions when Kate and Gerry were seen with their twins.
It was only when Kate and Gerry were made suspects that both men made the mistaken association.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3eI-OuMxsbU/WLVroTsF4-I/AAAAAAAArIA/yXnuC9CfqQ4ps2goPx6kcaA4z4p38s5BwCLcB/s1600/madeleine%2Bfamilia.jpg)
I think it is as plain as the nose on your face exactly what factors influenced both men.
Now that’s how you normally hold a child.
-
Now that’s how you normally hold a child.
They're awake.
It seems the Smith/Tanner sighting involved sleeping children or less likely unwell/deceased children.
-
I think you are wrong there. Unless you can say exactly what the connection between the receipt and the Smiths might be.
Bearing in mind it was the Rebelo investigation that went to the bother of checking the Smith's story I think it confirms that Amaral was less than bothered.
Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, with all her family, to eat at the Dolphin restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant, around 21H30, they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.
— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night.
21:39 receipt
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P12/12_VOLUME_XIIa_Page_3277.jpg)
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
-
Please name some of the 'inconsistencies' with provenance, to which you refer.
And following on from the example I gave. If some of the T7 could have 30 minute differences in how long a single event took (Payne's visit to 5A, for example) then they may also be wrong about how long and exactly what times Gerry was away from the Tapas table.
-
And following on from the example I gave. If some of the T7 could have 30 minute differences in how long a single event took (Payne's visit to 5A, for example) then they may also be wrong about how long and exactly what times Gerry was away from the Tapas table.
David Payne also went to his own appartment and changed into Tennis Gear during that half an hour.
That is why Gerry asked David Payne to call in to see if Kate was okay.
-
David Payne also went to his own appartment and changed into Tennis Gear during that half an hour.
There are two differing accounts of the length of time he spent in Appt 5A.
Who watched the Mini Tennis is another example....
There isn't one set agreed timeline.... which is normal.... but that's why we can't be exactly sure who was at the table and at what time.
-
And following on from the example I gave. If some of the T7 could have 30 minute differences in how long a single event took (Payne's visit to 5A, for example) then they may also be wrong about how long and exactly what times Gerry was away from the Tapas table.
They all agreed Kate raised the alarm at around 10pm, what time was the Smith sighting?
-
There are two differing accounts of the length of time he spent in Appt 5A.
Who watched the Mini Tennis is another example....
There isn't one set agreed timeline.... which is normal.... but that's why we can't be exactly sure who was at the table and at what time.
Five Seconds. Five Minutes. What do you think he did while he was there?
-
Now that’s how you normally hold a child.
Yes, an awake child who can hold his head up, so not needing shoulder support as a sleeping child would.
-
Mr Smith's sighting was on 3rd May in PdL, Mr McClusky's on 5th May in Alvor.
So ??? It doesn't alter the fact that both men made exactly the same mistaken identification of Gerry after months of media coverage featuring him ... but only after he and Kate were made suspects in Madeleine's disappearance.
Nor is there anything to say that the man seen on the third could might not have been the same man seen on the fifth.
Almost word for word they identified a man who was proved to be elsewhere when Mr Smith saw his man on the 3rd and the PJ already knew who the man was Mr McCluskey saw on the 5th ... but they both made the same error.
The reason why is very obvious to me ... I'm surprised you can't see it.
-
So ??? It doesn't alter the fact that both men made exactly the same mistaken identification of Gerry after months of media coverage featuring him ... but only after he and Kate were made suspects in Madeleine's disappearance.
Nor is there anything to say that the man seen on the third could might not have been the same man seen on the fifth.
Almost word for word they identified a man who was proved to be elsewhere when Mr Smith saw his man on the 3rd and the PJ already knew who the man was Mr McCluskey saw on the 5th ... but they both made the same error.
The reason why is very obvious to me ... I'm surprised you can't see it.
One of them was identified and ruled out.
-
One of them was identified and ruled out.
Yes ... I have said that ... and at the time Mr McCluskey did not know that. All he knew was that Madeleine's father had been made a suspect in Madeleine's disappearance and when he saw the family descending the plane steps on their return home it immediately reminded him of the man and woman he had seen.
In my opinion it is fortunate indeed that the PJ had identified the Ukrainian man. Imagine how that would have panned out if the PJ had had two identical identifications by two different men to play with
Snip
Dated 12/09/2007
The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.
________________________________
I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.
I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
-
I know you never want Smithman to be found! It's just desperation to be still peddling that and Tannerman when both have been ruled out!
-
Yes ... I have said that ... and at the time Mr McCluskey did not know that. All he knew was that Madeleine's father had been made a suspect in Madeleine's disappearance and when he saw the family descending the plane steps on their return home it immediately reminded him of the man and woman he had seen.
In my opinion it is fortunate indeed that the PJ had identified the Ukrainian man. Imagine how that would have panned out if the PJ had had two identical identifications by two different men to play with
Snip
Dated 12/09/2007
The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.
________________________________
I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.
I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
Strangely you never quote everything Mr McClusky said;
Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
He saw her from close up too, not just from a distance and from behind like with her husband. He tried to speak to her, but needed the young couple to interpret. He still thought it might be Kate McCann though.
-
Strangely you never quote everything Mr McClusky said;
Having viewed recent news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain that she is the female I described as being in a distressed state. I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
He saw her from close up too, not just from a distance and from behind like with her husband. He tried to speak to her, but needed the young couple to interpret. He still thought it might be Kate McCann though.
There is nothing strange about it.
No mistake was compounded about Kate but there sure was one about Gerry and a very dangerous one at that. Mr Smith only saw a man. And his description of that man was the mirror image of the description given by Mr McCluskey.
Two men who didn't know each other had a sighting of a man and a child who both thought could have been a missing little girl. The missing child's parents were made suspects in her disappearance after which when both men saw the father carrying his son downstairs both agonisingly and unbeknown to each other 'recognised' him as the man they saw.
I can see the implications of that even if you can't.
-
Five Seconds. Five Minutes. What do you think he did while he was there?
They can't even decide between them if he went in or not!!