UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on February 10, 2023, 07:23:21 PM
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Given the resources that the Metropolitan Police and others have ploughed into the search for Madeleine over the last decade and a half, are we any closer to understanding what happened that fateful night in Praia da Luz?
And secondly, has anyone changed their mind in the last few years as to what they may or may not have initially believed in this case?
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Given the resources that the Metropolitan Police and others have ploughed into the search for Madeleine over the last decade and a half, are we any closer to understanding what happened that fateful night in Praia da Luz?
And secondly, has anyone changed their mind in the last few years as to what they may or may not have initially believed in this case?
Grange has resulted in one rape being solved and charges laid and a trial pending on 3 more...plus 2 more charges relating to sexual crimes against children. Charges for the murder of MM to follow..
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Grange has resulted in one rape being solved and charges laid and a trial pending on 3 more...plus 2 more charges relating to sexual crimes against children. Charges for the murder of MM to follow..
Charges for the murder of MM to follow? You really still believe that?
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Charges for the murder of MM to follow? You really still believe that?
Of course he does. Remember this is the man who also believed McCann would win the ECHR case
The man who is never wrong - in his own mind
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Given the resources that the Metropolitan Police and others have ploughed into the search for Madeleine over the last decade and a half, are we any closer to understanding what happened that fateful night in Praia da Luz?
And secondly, has anyone changed their mind in the last few years as to what they may or may not have initially believed in this case?
John, we already know what happened. Andy Redwood explained rather eloquently that um, on the evidence, that you know, that um, that, that, you know that there was a criminal act that, you know, that was undertaken by a stranger.
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John, we already know what happened. Andy Redwood explained rather eloquently that um, on the evidence, that you know, that um, that, that, you know that there was a criminal act that, you know, that was undertaken by a stranger.
Aye for sure...
Redwood didn't last long after his massive dig failure in Praia da Luz. Was he really expecting to find Madeleine?
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Aye for sure...
Redwood didn't last long after his massive dig failure in Praia da Luz. Was he really expecting to find Madeleine?
Why not? If the police get a tip off that someone is hidden or buried in a specific location would you expect them to ignore it?
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Given the resources that the Metropolitan Police and others have ploughed into the search for Madeleine over the last decade and a half, are we any closer to understanding what happened that fateful night in Praia da Luz?
And secondly, has anyone changed their mind in the last few years as to what they may or may not have initially believed in this case?
I think we have become more aware of the evil that walks among us.
Paedophile ring uncovered during McCann probe
Published Jan 19, 2009
... El Mundo reported in its online edition on Monday.
Police arrested 13 suspects as a result of the investigation by officials from the Barcelona-based Metodo-3 agency, which had been hired by Gerry and Kate McCann to trace their daughter Madeleine
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As well as those arrested, police questioned another 10 people and seized a large quantity of computer equipment.
https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/paedophile-ring-uncovered-during-mccann-probe-431690
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I think we have become more aware of the evil that walks among us.
Paedophile ring uncovered during McCann probe
Published Jan 19, 2009
... El Mundo reported in its online edition on Monday.
Police arrested 13 suspects as a result of the investigation by officials from the Barcelona-based Metodo-3 agency, which had been hired by Gerry and Kate McCann to trace their daughter Madeleine
............................................................................
As well as those arrested, police questioned another 10 people and seized a large quantity of computer equipment.
https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/paedophile-ring-uncovered-during-mccann-probe-431690
Yes. The paedos. Raising awareness of paedos. Like Gerry was when he was ranting down the phone about the paedophile gang that had abducted Maddie, while Kate cursed about the f*cking b........s that had taken her.
It definitely wasn't staging or anything, no siree. This was the genuine reaction by the innocent parents of an abducted child & definitely not an attempt to pin the blame on paedophiles.
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Why not? If the police get a tip off that someone is hidden or buried in a specific location would you expect them to ignore it?
So why didn't the MET excavate the driveway at Casa Liliana when Steven Birch gave the tip off that Maddie was buried there? Seems they must have just ignored it.
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Of course he does. Remember this is the man who also believed McCann would win the ECHR case
The man who is never wrong - in his own mind
from someone who didnt understand the law involved.
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Aye for sure...
Redwood didn't last long after his massive dig failure in Praia da Luz. Was he really expecting to find Madeleine?
You dont seem to know much about how police investigate a crime
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Yes. The paedos. Raising awareness of paedos. Like Gerry was when he was ranting down the phone about the paedophile gang that had abducted Maddie, while Kate cursed about the f*cking b........s that had taken her.
It definitely wasn't staging or anything, no siree. This was the genuine reaction by the innocent parents of an abducted child & definitely not an attempt to pin the blame on paedophiles.
If my child was missing and I'd heard there were Paedophile gangs in the area I would jump to the conclusion that a Paedophile had abducted my child too. It would be the first thing that entered my head.
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If my child was missing and I'd heard there were Paedophile gangs in the area I would jump to the conclusion that a Paedophile had abducted my child too. It would be the first thing that entered my head.
Was Gerry told there were paedophile gangs in the area? He didn't show any concern when he went out every night and left his children in his unlocked accomodation.
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Was Gerry told there were paedophile gangs in the area? He didn't show any concern when he went out every night and left his children in his unlocked accomodation.
He must have been told after the abduction, but before he ever bothered ringing the police & telling them about the paedophile gangs.
Strange that he omitted such an important detail in his witness statement also.
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One thing which has been reinforced over the years is the level of blind malice directed towards the McCann family.
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One thing which has been reinforced over the years is the level of blind malice directed towards the McCann family.
It's not blind. The evidence Madeleine was taken in a criminal act by a stranger is plain for all to see.
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One thing which has been reinforced over the years is the level of blind malice directed towards the McCann family.
Don't forget the blind adulation too!
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Don't forget the blind adulation too!
Do you believe anyone on this form blindly adores the McCanns?
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Don't forget the blind adulation too!
One issue with which I have become familiar is the issue of fake news and distorted news mixed with half truth and factoid.
Nowhere is this more adroitly spewed out than within the internet vehicles promoting the opinions of the adulated and disgraced cop, Amaral. Remember "swingers" 👀 widely reported in the Portuguese press.
No Goncalo ~ the child medicine Calpol is not sedative ~ repeatedly telling your supporters it is really is a bit much.
On the other hand ~ if they really do believe that ~ they'll believe anything!
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Don't forget the blind adulation too!
Another thing you are totally mistaken about...theyre mounting up. Im interested in justice....particularly justice for Madeleine...what dont you understand about that
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Don't forget the blind adulation too!
What a very silly thing to say.
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Do you believe anyone on this form blindy adores the McCanns?
I don't know about the shrewish opinions promoted in that member's posts and I don't care two hoots about it. What intrigues me is that despite the unworkable theories with which Amaral has surrounded a missing child investigation that sixteen years down the line some individuals are following his lead in learning nothing.
Thankfully the present powers that be have been following where the McCann family led and results have been achieved as a result and probably a lot more than we will ever know about.
A very dangerous predator is presently off the streets as a direct result of the police learning from the evidence available to them and (ah - that magic word) coordinating it to keep him where he can do no harm.
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Another thing you are totally mistaken about...theyre mounting up. Im interested in justice....particularly justice for Madeleine...what dont you understand about that
Well, you're not going to find that here I'm afraid. Even the three expert investigative forces, armed as they are with all the weight of EMWTIACABAS, even they still can't bring the elusive abductor to justice. No. The best you can hope to find here is sniping & wummery, interspersed among MSM articles & opinions masquerading as facts.
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One issue with which I have become familiar is the issue of fake news and distorted news mixed with half truth and factoid.
Nowhere is this more adroitly spewed out than within the internet vehicles promoting the opinions of the adulated and disgraced cop, Amaral. Remember "swingers" 👀 widely reported in the Portuguese press.
No Goncalo ~ the child medicine Calpol is not sedative ~ repeatedly telling your supporters it is really is a bit much.
On the other hand ~ if they really do believe that ~ they'll believe anything!
I think Amaral is interested in Justice...I think he genuinely believes the McCanns are guilty...unfortunately he doesnt know his rrs from his elbow
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I think Amaral is interested in Justice...I think he genuinely believes the McCanns are guilty...unfortunately he doesnt know his rrs from his elbow
I seldom disagree with your reasoning. But I am diametrically opposed to it on this occasion. It's not often I attribute actions to the mental health of a person but I think that is one of many factors in the initial mismanagement of Madeleine's case up until and beyond his dismissal from it.
That opinion is reinforced by his absolutely bizarre conduct regarding his interference in the German case.
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I have become increasingly interested in Amaral's motives of late. Something that wouldn't have happened if it hadn't become so ridiculous.
Why try so hard to protect a convicted sexual predator if there isn't something to hide?
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I have become increasingly interested in Amaral's motives of late. Something that wouldn't have happened if it hadn't become so ridiculous.
Why try so hard to protect a convicted sexual predator if there isn't something to hide?
How hard did he try exactly? Sharing a photoshopped image of Brueckner with dreadlocks?
Nil points for effort from me I'm afraid
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I have become increasingly interested in Amaral's motives of late. Something that wouldn't have happened if it hadn't become so ridiculous.
Why try so hard to protect a convicted sexual predator if there isn't something to hide?
I think Amaral's recent behaviour is erratic to say the least and certainly does show that he has learned no lessons from the intervening years after Madeleine was abducted and his determined introduction of Brueckner into the public domain.
From him we know that Brueckner featured in police inquiries early days.
What a coincidence!
I think one would have to be very obtuse if that didn't prod some activity into the old brain cells.
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I think Amaral's recent behaviour is erratic to say the least and certainly does show that he has learned no lessons from the intervening years after Madeleine was abducted and his determined introduction of Brueckner into the public domain.
From him we know that Brueckner featured in police inquiries early days.
What a coincidence!
I think one would have to be very obtuse if that didn't prod some activity into the old brain cells.
You missed out the word 'allegedly' before abducted.
Like I said earlier, opinions masquerading as facts.
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I think Amaral's recent behaviour is erratic to say the least and certainly does show that he has learned no lessons from the intervening years after Madeleine was abducted and his determined introduction of Brueckner into the public domain.
From him we know that Brueckner featured in police inquiries early days.
What a coincidence!
I think one would have to be very obtuse if that didn't prod some activity into the old brain cells.
I can't hep wondering if anyone has had a look at Amaral's phone record for that night. Sorry about that.
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I can't hep wondering if anyone has had a look at Amaral's phone record for that night. Sorry about that.
Delusional.
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I can't hep wondering if anyone has had a look at Amaral's phone record for that night. Sorry about that.
The investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was like something gone mad. Everything seemed to be off kilter and firmly on the back foot.
From memory ~ Amaral was informed while he was at dinner. Possibly burning the midnight oil in preparation for being constituted as a suspect in a torture case on the following day 4th May.
Apart from trivia involving the McCann party and the Murat party, I don't think the invaluable resource presented by the telephone dump was utilised as it should have been until Scotland Yard came on the scene.
So I would say no-one bothered to check Amaral's log.
In fact I think that until now he has been relatively bomb proof no matter what nonsense he comes away with.
I'm not too sure whether or not he may have blown that immunity in his pursuit of "justice for brueckner". There has to be a limit to the credibility and tolerance shown to media personalities even in Portugal.
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The investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was like something gone mad. Everything seemed to be off kilter and firmly on the back foot.
From memory ~ Amaral was informed while he was at dinner. Possibly burning the midnight oil in preparation for being constituted as a suspect in a torture case on the following day 4th May.
Apart from trivia involving the McCann party and the Murat party, I don't think the invaluable resource presented by the telephone dump was utilised as it should have been until Scotland Yard came on the scene.
So I would say no-one bothered to check Amaral's log.
In fact I think that until now he has been relatively bomb proof no matter what nonsense he comes away with.
I'm not too sure whether or not he may have blown that immunity in his pursuit of "justice for brueckner". There has to be a limit to the credibility and tolerance shown to media personalities even in Portugal.
There was that fake burglary you see. I have wondered about that as well. That held things up a bit.
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I think what sums it up is that Amaral had too much faith in Grime .. Grime had too much faith in his dogs and the dogs liked to please Grime..
Grime did the same in Jersey but the dogs got caught out
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There was that fake burglary you see. I have wondered about that as well. That held things up a bit.
So did the delay in calling the police from the Ocean Club.
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So did the delay in calling the police from the Ocean Club.
Oh Yes. When the distraught English couple who couldn't speak Portuguese waited for The Ocean Club Reception to make the call for them. Very suspicious that was. While The GNR at Portimao couldn't send anyone anyway because they were attending to a burglary that never happened.
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Oh Yes. When the distraught English couple who couldn't speak Portuguese waited for The Ocean Club Reception to make the call for them. Very suspicious that was. While The GNR at Portimao couldn't send anyone anyway because they were attending to a burglary that never happened.
Didn't make much effort to inform reception though did they. It took Gerry almost a full golden hour before he saw to it the police be informed of the abduction. This makes sense when one realises that maybe he had something more pressing to attend to.
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There was that fake burglary you see. I have wondered about that as well. That held things up a bit.
Misty made posts some time ago which linked the simulated burglary with the huge police celebrations which had taken place that day which had involved many officers and probably left that night's shifts and patrols short staffed since so many had spent the day on duty at the event.
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Oh Yes. When the distraught English couple who couldn't speak Portuguese waited for The Ocean Club Reception to make the call for them. Very suspicious that was. While The GNR at Portimao couldn't send anyone anyway because they were attending to a burglary that never happened.
I have it on the very best authority that EVERYONE in Portugal speaks English so absolutely no reason for the delay.
Snip
The most recent example of the outrageous treatment of Dr. Amaral is the BBC broadcast claiming he had said "F*** the McCanns". Native Portuguese claim that Amaral actually said "'Não, força aos McCanns" "Ask the McCanns" in response to a reporter's questions. (GONCALO AMARAL DOES NOT SPEAK ENGLISH - a fact widely reported.) CMOMM
Well that is everyone with the exception of Amaral.
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So did the delay in calling the police from the Ocean Club.
How could PJ solve the case when they believed Eddie alerted to cadaver odour and had never been wrong
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I have it on the very best authority that EVERYONE in Portugal speaks English so absolutely no reason for the delay.
Snip
The most recent example of the outrageous treatment of Dr. Amaral is the BBC broadcast claiming he had said "F*** the McCanns". Native Portuguese claim that Amaral actually said "'Não, força aos McCanns" "Ask the McCanns" in response to a reporter's questions. (GONCALO AMARAL DOES NOT SPEAK ENGLISH - a fact widely reported.) CMOMM
Well that is everyone with the exception of Amaral.
I don't know who your 'very best authority' is, but it's wrong imo.
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I don't know who your 'very best authority' is, but it's wrong imo.
Live and learn.
With regard to the Netflix documentary - the Sun describes as a "Jaw dropping moment" Portuguese police chief's dinner party on the night of Maddie's disappearance
The Portuguese police chief who headed up the Madeleine McCann investigation admitted the real reason why he didn't go straight to the crime scene was because he was enjoying a dinner party.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/madeleine-mccann-netflix-series-jaw-22175407
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Live and learn.
With regard to the Netflix documentary - the Sun describes as a "Jaw dropping moment" Portuguese police chief's dinner party on the night of Maddie's disappearance
The Portuguese police chief who headed up the Madeleine McCann investigation admitted the real reason why he didn't go straight to the crime scene was because he was enjoying a dinner party.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/madeleine-mccann-netflix-series-jaw-22175407
I was referring to this claim 'I have it on the very best authority that EVERYONE in Portugal speaks English so absolutely no reason for the delay.'
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I was referring to this claim 'I have it on the very best authority that EVERYONE in Portugal speaks English so absolutely no reason for the delay.'
Do keep up.
I am following the thread topic. One rather wonders what new information you have gleaned in 16 years. Not a lot it would appear from your posts.
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Do keep up.
I am following the thread topic. One rather wonders what new information you have gleaned in 16 years. Not a lot it would appear from your posts.
Well, you learned that everyone in Portugal speaks English, it seems. But they don't.
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Well, you learned that everyone in Portugal speaks English, it seems. But they don't.
I think you missed the sarcasm.
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He must have been told after the abduction, but before he ever bothered ringing the police & telling them about the paedophile gangs.
Strange that he omitted such an important detail in his witness statement also.
I am sure the Police would have already known about the Paedophile gangs. The Police must have known about the break ins too. All hush hush so as not to spoil the tourist industry.
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I am sure the Police would have already known about the Paedophile gangs. The Police must have known about the break ins too. All hush hush so as not to spoil the tourist industry.
What paedophile gangs? There's no evidence of any. If there are paedophile gangs abducting kids from Luz, it seems strange their child abducting antics consisted of only one child abduction. Wouldn't you say? They seem to have quit the practice entirely after Maddie, even though they got clean away.
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I am sure the Police would have already known about the Paedophile gangs. The Police must have known about the break ins too. All hush hush so as not to spoil the tourist industry.
What paedophile gangs? All Gerry McCann said was that she could have been taken by a paedophile.
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What paedophile gangs? All Gerry McCann said was that she could have been taken by a paedophile.
Wonderfulspam mentioned paedophile gangs I was just replying to his post.
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Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were groups of Paedophiles who knew each other, sharing their photo's etc.
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What paedophile gangs? All Gerry McCann said was that she could have been taken by a paedophile.
He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm
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So in September the witness remembers
"Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared 'she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles'."
An understandable fear to have for someone whose child has mysteriously disappeared in the night.
By December of that year the witness remembers it slightly differently:
"He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine"
This is all hearsay anyway and who knows for sure if Gerry claimed to know of the existence of paedophile gangs in Portugal during this phonecall.
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So in September the witness remembers
"Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared 'she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles'."
An understandable fear to have for someone whose child has mysteriously disappeared in the night.
By December of that year the witness remembers it slightly differently:
"He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine"
This is all hearsay anyway and who knows for sure if Gerry claimed to know of the existence of paedophile gangs in Portugal during this phonecall.
No. The first part you quote aren't comments made by McKenzie himself, they are written in third person & are a summary of the details by someone from either Leicester Police, or the PJ.
"He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine" Is the actual quote from McKenzie.
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Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were groups of Paedophiles who knew each other, sharing their photo's etc.
Maybe, but they weren't abducting kids though. That wasn't happening.
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He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm
Sorry, I just read his sister's evidence, not this man's. They both agree, however, that Gerry McCann's thoughts turned to paedophiles pretty quickly after his daughter disappeared.
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Sorry, I just read his sister's evidence, not this man's. They both agree, however, that Gerry McCann's thoughts turned to paedophiles pretty quickly after his daughter disappeared.
What a surprise. Guilty, M'Lud.
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What a surprise. Guilty, M'Lud.
Maybe not guilty, but it could be relevant in other ways
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Re: Have we learned anything new after almost 16 years?
Observation of posts reveal that some of us are still firmly transfixed and bemused with precisely the same prejudices, myths and misunderstandings they have refused to let go from inception in 2007 into 2023.
I don't think there is any help for that level of obduracy.
Particularly when police investigation has gone full circle and arrived back to where it started.
We are told that police attempted to investigate Brueckner when the police had his name during the Madeleine McCann inquiry in 2007.
We know that his name was given to police in 2017 since when he has been under investigation for involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.
During which time and as a result of that investigation, other crimes committed by Bruecknerr have come to light and have been successfully prosecuted. With indictments for five other crimes of a similar nature in the pipeline as the direct result of the line of inquiry being followed, which was investigation of Madeleine's case.
The new thing we did learn in 2019 was of Brueckner's existence and shortly thereafter we learned his name.
The surprising thing we learned was that the police already had his name. And they had it as long ago as 2007.
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Sorry, I just read his sister's evidence, not this man's. They both agree, however, that Gerry McCann's thoughts turned to paedophiles pretty quickly after his daughter disappeared.
What tripe we are getting from the sceotics.
Of course, when your child was taken you would fear paedophiles were responsible.
Additionally when a child is raped/ abused by a paedophile, whether dead or alive when found, someone had to medically examine the poor child. That would be a doctor.
How do you KNOW that neither Gerry nor Kate had had that unenviable, disturbing task ?
Their friends were doctors and may also have had to check the poor little ones. As parents of young children, they would be ultra sensitive to such dreadful things. Anyone would be really so llong as they had a heart.
I sometimes wonder if some of you sceptics are lacking that part of your body.
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Sorry, I just read his sister's evidence, not this man's. They both agree, however, that Gerry McCann's thoughts turned to paedophiles pretty quickly after his daughter disappeared.
Are you surprised by this? If so please explain why.
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What tripe we are getting from the sceotics.
Of course, when your child was taken you would fear paedophiles were responsible.
Additionally when a child is raped/ abused by a paedophile, whether dead or alive when found, someone had to medically examine the poor child. That would be a doctor.
How do you KNOW that neither Gerry nor Kate had had that unenviable, disturbing task ?
Their friends were doctors and may also have had to check the poor little ones. As parents of young children, they would be ultra sensitive to such dreadful things. Anyone would be really so llong as they had a heart.
I sometimes wonder if some of you sceptics are lacking that part of your body.
Conversely, if your child wasn't taken, & you were in fact staging an abduction, you could blame the child's disappearance on someone else. People might well believe you, you see. That's possible also.
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Overzealous moderation again today.
If you can't argue against the observations I'm making, you can always just delete them & cry libel I suppose.
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What tripe we are getting from the sceotics.
Of course, when your child was taken you would fear paedophiles were responsible.
Additionally when a child is raped/ abused by a paedophile, whether dead or alive when found, someone had to medically examine the poor child. That would be a doctor.
How do you KNOW that neither Gerry nor Kate had had that unenviable, disturbing task ?
Their friends were doctors and may also have had to check the poor little ones. As parents of young children, they would be ultra sensitive to such dreadful things. Anyone would be really so llong as they had a heart.
I sometimes wonder if some of you sceptics are lacking that part of your body.
As doctors I would have expected the McCanns to know how suddenly illnesses or accidents can occur too, but they were apparently happy to leave three small children at least 30 minutes between listening checks on them.
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As doctors I would have expected the McCanns to know how suddenly illnesses or accidents can occur too, but they were apparently happy to leave three small children at least 30 minutes between listening checks on them.
Well done you‼ Indeed you have hit on some new learning. Particularly for the parents of the missing child.
Not forgetting the generations who certainly will not ignore the lesson learned.
Nor any potential abductors in holiday resorts who may have learned it's not a good idea to take a foreign child because of the merry hell it will cause.
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Sorry, I just read his sister's evidence, not this man's. They both agree, however, that Gerry McCann's thoughts turned to paedophiles pretty quickly after his daughter disappeared.
There are, IMO, two possible interpretations for the motivation behind Gerry's, alleged, comments regarding paedophile gangs, you see. Only one possible interpretation, sympathetic to the McCanns, is permitted under forum rules. Explaining the other will gain you a lot of warning points, I have discovered today. Oh well. That's something new I've learned about the case, 16 years on, & that's me done for today I suppose.
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There are, IMO, two possible interpretations for the motivation behind Gerry's, alleged, comments regarding paedophile gangs, you see. Only one possible interpretation, sympathetic to the McCanns, is permitted under forum rules. Explaining the other will gain you a lot of warning points, I have discovered today. Oh well. That's something new I've learned about the case, 16 years on, & that's me done for today I suppose.
There are ways to get across every point without falling foul of the moderators.
Almost 16 years on and Madeleine's whereabouts or what happened to her are still a mystery to everyone except possibly the individual or individuals who last saw her alive. All we still have are theories based on the mountain of documents and evidence that has accrued over that time.
Anyone who has studied this case can see why Amaral and his detective team had the concerns he had. Not many have covered themselves in glory by their actions.
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Well done you‼ Indeed you have hit on some new learning. Particularly for the parents of the missing child.
Not forgetting the generations who certainly will not ignore the lesson learned.
Nor any potential abductors in holiday resorts who may have learned it's not a good idea to take a foreign child because of the merry hell it will cause.
Really? The abductor seems to have got clean away by all accounts.
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Really? The abductor seems to have got clean away by all accounts.
It has caused mayhem for paedos out there ... and many of them will (should have anyway) have been questioned and their phones and whereabouts questioned.
If they have any sense at all they will have moved elsewhere, or hopefully stopped,
Paedos anywhere are a menace to our children. Put them all on an island with no children, no boats and get rid of them that way. Sorry that is a bit radical
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There are ways to get across every point without falling foul of the moderators.
That's bollocks and you know it John .
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It has caused mayhem for paedos out there ... and many of them will (should have anyway) have been questioned and their phones and whereabouts questioned.
If they have any sense at all they will have moved elsewhere, or hopefully stopped,
Paedos anywhere are a menace to our children. Put them all on an island with no children, no boats and get rid of them that way. Sorry that is a bit radical
That can only happen if the police obtain warrants of course. You can't just round up all convicted sex offenders & question them, track their phone data & seize their laptops, every time a child goes missing. They have a legal right to say b....r all to the police you know. No, probably best to have some evidence, reasonable suspicion against a person before ruling them into any enquiry, otherwise you might waste your time pursuing dead ends, as the three expert investigative forces are now discovering.
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That's bollocks and you know it John .
I do seem to remember mentioning possibility & using the words could be in my posts re McKenzie.
Indeed, one such post I replied to Eleanor that Gerry's alleged comment could be evidence of staging. That post still disappeared pretty rapidly.
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That's bollocks and you know it John .
Absolutely isn't and has never been the case. Posters need to up their game though if comments aren't to fall at the first hurdle. Posting something contrary to the rules just to get a reaction is not the way to go.
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Absolutely isn't and has never been the case. Posters need to up their game though if comments aren't to fall at the first hurdle. Posting something contrary to the rules just to get a reaction is not the way to go.
If it’s ok for Amaral to libel the McCanns why not just the troll say whatever he wants? He has been for months now anyway.
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Well done you‼ Indeed you have hit on some new learning. Particularly for the parents of the missing child.
Not forgetting the generations who certainly will not ignore the lesson learned.
Nor any potential abductors in holiday resorts who may have learned it's not a good idea to take a foreign child because of the merry hell it will cause.
The world seems to be devided between those who already knew that leaving small children alone in an unlocked apartment and those who said, even after the event, that they had, or would have, done the same as the McCanns.
Then there are those who doubt that there was an abduction, despite what must be one of the biggest press campaigns in it's favour ever.
I wonder how many abductions of children from overseas have taken place in holiday resorts?
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The world seems to be devided between those who already knew that leaving small children alone in an unlocked apartment and those who said, even after the event, that they had, or would have, done the same as the McCanns.
Then there are those who doubt that there was an abduction, despite what must be one of the biggest press campaigns in it's favour ever.
I wonder how many abductions of children from overseas have taken place in holiday resorts?
There was that Australian brat that was taken from a tent the other year. Isolated incident. No connection to the notorious paedophile gangs involved. Madeleine's abduction is quite unique, in that there haven't been any similar abductions in Portugal before or after.
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If it’s ok for Amaral to libel the McCanns why not just the troll say whatever he wants? He has been for months now anyway.
One of the things we have learned is that Amaral didn't libel the McCanns according to the laws of Portugal. Neither did Portugal breach their human rights according to the ECHR. Some people disagree, but that's just their 'armchair lawyer' opinion.
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If it’s ok for Amaral to libel the McCanns why not just the troll say whatever he wants? He has been for months now anyway.
Well, I didn't say anything libellous, in my opinion. I simply pointed out that one can interpret the McCanns behaviour in two ways. One that supports abduction, another that also fits in with the conclusions of the initial police investigation. That is my reasoned observation of the matter, it's based on the data contained within the files. So, it isn't libellous I'm afraid. No, because I'm not saying the McCanns did stage an abduction, I'm saying it's not unreasonable to deduce that they could have, based in part on Mr McKenzies evidence.
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The world seems to be devided between those who already knew that leaving small children alone in an unlocked apartment and those who said, even after the event, that they had, or would have, done the same as the McCanns.
Then there are those who doubt that there was an abduction, despite what must be one of the biggest press campaigns in it's favour ever.
I wonder how many abductions of children from overseas have taken place in holiday resorts?
Were you unaware of the media campaign pointing thefinger at the McCanns for the best partof a year after the disappearance?
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One of the things we have learned is that Amaral didn't libel the McCanns according to the laws of Portugal. Neither did Portugal breach their human rights according to the ECHR. Some people disagree, but that's just their 'armchair lawyer' opinion.
I’ve asked you twice recently for a cite to the ruling which explicitly states that Amaral did not libel the McCanns. Both times you ignored my request. Are you going to ignore it again?
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There are ways to get across every point without falling foul of the moderators.
Unfair moderation ahs ruined this forum. moderators on here continually break the rules.
I experienced abuse from moderators who seemed to have a personal vendetta against me....why you appointed stephen as a mod....doesnt make sense,
Im not that bothered but please dont trot out the same old.....obey the rules and youl be fine
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I’ve asked you twice recently for a cite to the ruling which explicitly states that Amaral did not libel the McCanns. Both times you ignored my request. Are you going to ignore it again?
Did the McCanns win the libel trial? No? Ah right, he didn't libel them then, otherwise they would have won, wouldn't they.
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Almost 16 years on and Madeleine's whereabouts or what happened to her are still a mystery to everyone except possibly the individual or individuals who last saw her alive. All we still have are theories based on the mountain of documents and evidence that has accrued over that time.
16 years on the BKA know exactly what happened to maddie as a direct intervention by SY into the investigation
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The world seems to be devided between those who already knew that leaving small children alone in an unlocked apartment and those who said, even after the event, that they had, or would have, done the same as the McCanns.
Then there are those who doubt that there was an abduction, despite what must be one of the biggest press campaigns in it's favour ever.
I wonder how many abductions of children from overseas have taken place in holiday resorts?
absolute junk...doesnt even warranta response
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16 years on the BKA know exactly what happened to maddie as a direct intervention by SY into the investigation
Of course they do. I find it a bit strange the BKA still haven't shared their evidence with either the MET or Madeleine's parents though. But it's probably not important. They can all just wait until the other cases are dealt with. We can't expect Wolters to manage 6 charges at once, 5 must be the limit.
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absolute junk...doesnt even warranta response
Well that's demonstrably false, because you just responded.
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One of the things we have learned is that Amaral didn't libel the McCanns according to the laws of Portugal. Neither did Portugal breach their human rights according to the ECHR. Some people disagree, but that's just their 'armchair lawyer' opinion.
You stll dont understand the judgenent....it clear Amaaral did libel the McCanns but the portuguse courts ruled thhat amarals rights under article 10 overuled the mcacans rights undr 8.
the ECHR rulled in Amarals favour based on the false claims in the SC judgement
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Well that's demonstrably false, because you just responded.
your post doesnt warrant a response either
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I’ve asked you twice recently for a cite to the ruling which explicitly states that Amaral did not libel the McCanns. Both times you ignored my request. Are you going to ignore it again?
Where did you get the idea that he did?
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Where did you get the idea that he did?
I didn’t pass comment on that, I simply asked for a cite to the paragraph in Portuguese judgement which states Amaral did not libel the McCanns. Surely you have it at your fingertips as it is a claim you make very frequently?
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The world seems to be devided between those who already knew that leaving small children alone in an unlocked apartment and those who said, even after the event, that they had, or would have, done the same as the McCanns.
Then there are those who doubt that there was an abduction, despite what must be one of the biggest press campaigns in it's favour ever.
I wonder how many abductions of children from overseas have taken place in holiday resorts?
I have learned in this internet age that whatever may be visited on the individual will be exploited by someone somewhere to to dream up the craziest theories imaginable and feel no shame in hounding victims.
None more exploited than the tragedies of missing and or murdered children. And that is without exception
One thing that has become apparent from every and any human tragedy are the individuals who crawl out of the woodwork in sheer ecstasy at the opportunity to apportion blame while wallowing vicariously in events affecting others and all the while with more malice than any rational person should be capable of.
The McCanns were not the first victims to fall foul of such personalities. It used to be carried out on a smaller scale using green ink and the cost of a stamp, now the www gives unlimited rein to the worst examples of human licence and malice.
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One of the things we have learned is that Amaral didn't libel the McCanns according to the laws of Portugal. Neither did Portugal breach their human rights according to the ECHR. Some people disagree, but that's just their 'armchair lawyer' opinion.
I think there is a lesson to be learned from Robert Murat et al and the awards they received from the Portuguese media who had libelled them.
One only has to read the police file on Murat to wonder why the press paid out on libels they really didn't have to.
Wonder if they will be asking for their money back.
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Where did you get the idea that he did?
Let’s have it your way. According to you Amaral did not libel the McCanns when he expressed the opinion that they hid their daughter’s body in a freezer and transported it in the hire car 23 days later. Certified completely non libellous by the court according to you (despite the lack of cites, but never mind). Why then is it libellous to hold and write the opinion that the McCanns murdered Madeleine and then hid her body? Surely by your and the PT court logic this too is not libellous yet the troll gets points if he expresses this opinion.
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Let’s have it your way. According to you Amaral did not libel the McCanns when he expressed the opinion that they hid their daughter’s body in a freezer and transported it in the hire car 23 days later. Certified completely non libellous by the court according to you (despite the lack of cites, but never mind). Why then is it libellous to hold and write the opinion that the McCanns murdered Madeleine and then hid her body? Surely by your and the PT court logic this too is not libellous yet the troll gets points if he expresses this opinion. Why aren’t you defending him against John?
I tell you what: one thing that hasn’t been learned after 16 years is how to moderate a forum where all moderators understand what is and isn’t libellous and moderate with consistency and fairness to all.
Because that wasn't the conclusion of the investigation. The PJ didn't believe the McCanns murdered Maddie, only that she died in an accident. So, that's exactly what Amaral wrote in his entirely non libellous book. Me personally, I like to believe that they could have but that theory isn't supported by the files, unfortunately. But I see no way to rule out any possibility, even after 16 years.
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Let’s have it your way. According to you Amaral did not libel the McCanns when he expressed the opinion that they hid their daughter’s body in a freezer and transported it in the hire car 23 days later. Certified completely non libellous by the court according to you (despite the lack of cites, but never mind). Why then is it libellous to hold and write the opinion that the McCanns murdered Madeleine and then hid her body? Surely by your and the PT court logic this too is not libellous yet the troll gets points if he expresses this opinion.
What a strange post! According to you the court didn't mention libel, but it's been trumpeted by the UK newspapers that the McCanns sued Amaral for libel and lost. Would you prefer to call it something else?
Portuguese laws don't apply in the UK, and this forum is understandably careful what is said here. I don't know who is saying the McCanns murdered their daughter, but that's against forum rules because it's the opinion of those in charge here that it's libellous. I don't think it's ever been tested in the UK courts.
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I think there is a lesson to be learned from Robert Murat et al and the awards they received from the Portuguese media who had libelled them.
One only has to read the police file on Murat to wonder why the press paid out on libels they really didn't have to.
Wonder if they will be asking for their money back.
The only award to Murat I can see is that TVI had to pay him Eur20,000 for labelling him a paedophile on live TV. Were there others?
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What a strange post! According to you the court didn't mention libel, but it's been trumpeted by the UK newspapers that the McCanns sued Amaral for libel and lost. Would you prefer to call it something else?
Portuguese laws don't apply in the UK, and this forum is understandably careful what is said here. I don't know who is saying the McCanns murdered their daughter, but that's against forum rules because it's the opinion of those in charge here that it's libellous. I don't think it's ever been tested in the UK courts.
The ECHR had the last word - does their opinion not count in the UK? Hasn’t it been repeated on here time and time again that testing the veracity of Amaral’s claims in court was never part of the legal process in this case? If so then please explain how the court was able to conclude no libel was committed and provide a cite to demonstrate that this was the court’s conclusion. If it’s ok according for the ECHR for one man in one European country to publish his opinion based on scant evidence, then why not Spam in another?
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The ECHR had the last word - does their opinion not count in the UK? Hasn’t it been repeated on here time and time again that testing the veracity of Amaral’s claims in court was never part of the legal process in this case? If so then please explain how the court was able to conclude no libel was committed and provide a cite to demonstrate that this was the court’s conclusion. If it’s ok according for the ECHR for one man in one European country to publish his opinion based on scant evidence, then why not Spam in another?
Those in power on this forum decide what members are allowed to post, not the ECHR. If you want to know what they think it might be a good idea to ask them, not me.
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The ECHR had the last word - does their opinion not count in the UK? Hasn’t it been repeated on here time and time again that testing the veracity of Amaral’s claims in court was never part of the legal process in this case? If so then please explain how the court was able to conclude no libel was committed and provide a cite to demonstrate that this was the court’s conclusion. If it’s ok according for the ECHR for one man in one European country to publish his opinion based on scant evidence, then why not Spam in another?
So you agree Amaral's theory is based on evidence, albeit scant?
That's interesting, because there are others here who insist there is no evidence at all against the McCanns.
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Those in power on this forum decide what members are allowed to post, not the ECHR. If you want to know what they think it might be a good idea to ask them, not me.
If you read the SC judgement you will see that the court accepted that the McCanns rights under Article 8 were breached. Its quite ironic how much you pontificate when your actual knowledge of the facts is poor
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Those in power on this forum decide what members are allowed to post, not the ECHR. If you want to know what they think it might be a good idea to ask them, not me.
Seeing as the ECHR clearly has their backs I don’t know what “those in power on this forum” are afraid of really..
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If you read the SC judgement you will see that the court accepted that the McCanns rights under Article 8 were breached. Its quite ironic how much you pontificate when your actual knowledge of the facts is poor
I’m still waiting for G-Unit to post the bit where the court explicitly stated that Amaral did not libel the McCanns, a claim she repeats regularly but refuses to provide a cite for.
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If you read the SC judgement you will see that the court accepted that the McCanns rights under Article 8 were breached. Its quite ironic how much you pontificate when your actual knowledge of the facts is poor
The publication of the files & the McCanns decision to court the media helped nullify that. You can't on the one hand claim your right to a private life as been breached whilst simultaneously giving media interviews on how you couldn't have sex with your spouse imo
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I’m still waiting for G-Unit to post the bit where the court explicitly stated that Amaral did not libel the McCanns, a claim she repeats regularly but refuses to provide a cite for.
Semantics. Whatever the McCanns sued Amaral for they lost the case.
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Semantics. Whatever the McCanns sued Amaral for they lost the case.
LOL. I think when it comes to points of law "semantics" are considered pretty damned important. The courts did NOT say that Amaral hadn't libelled the McCanns so perhaps you could stop your semantic word games.
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Semantics. Whatever the McCanns sued Amaral for they lost the case.
its true they lost but its also true that the portuguese included lies in their proven facts...you will b telling me next that the proven facts do not have to be facts or proven
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its true they lost but its also true that the portuguese included lies in their proven facts...you will b telling me next that the proven facts do not have to be facts or proven
That's exactly what G-Unit will be telling you:
Her post from October 2018;
He used facts from the investigation. No-one knows if those facts are true or false. In order for the ECHR to decide they would have to investigate the case themselves and then use their own findings.
That isn't within their remit
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7275.msg497499;topicseen#msg497499
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its true they lost but its also true that the portuguese included lies in their proven facts...you will b telling me next that the proven facts do not have to be facts or proven
The McCanns accepted the first judgement, points 6 &7 are still there for all to see no one has contested them , they are lies in your opinion, which counts for diddly squat.
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The McCanns accepted the first judgement, points 6 &7 are still there for all to see no one has contested them , they are lies in your opinion, which counts for diddly squat.
Gerry did contest them in the first judgement.. You're wrong there
There is no confirmation of cadaver odour being present in 5a.. So it's a lie to claim there was. So you're wrong there
Both my statements are fact.. Not opinion
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Gerry did contest them in the first judgement.. You're wrong there
There is no confirmation of cadaver odour being present in 5a.. So it's a lie to claim there was. So you're wrong there
Both my statements are fact.. Not opinion
Which the judge answered, as you well know.
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Gerry did contest them in the first judgement.. You're wrong there
There is no confirmation of cadaver odour being present in 5a.. So it's a lie to claim there was. So you're wrong there
Both my statements are fact.. Not opinion
I'm talking of the proven facts issued in the first judgement, no one bar yourself is contesting it, who you hope to influence among at best 6 regular posters who knows.
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Which the judge answered, as you well know.
yes the judge answerred with..from memory...we are not here to judge the facts of the case...thats FACTS..
that makes the proven facts even more bizarre
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yes the judge answerred with..from memory...we are not here to judge the facts of the case...thats FACTS..
that makes the proven facts even more bizarre
So is obvious to most people that 'proven facts' doesn't mean 'true facts'.
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So are we all agreed that we have learned very little in the past 16 years about Madeleine's disappearance?
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So is obvious to most people that 'proven facts' doesn't mean 'true facts'.
keep digging rthat big hole...people would expect proven facts to be true.Most sceptics if not all beleive that the proven facts re the alerts as true.
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So are we all agreed that we have learned very little in the past 16 years about Madeleine's disappearance?
not at all...Ive learnt a lot...not sure about others.
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So is obvious to most people that 'proven facts' doesn't mean 'true facts'.
Can you have an untrue fact?
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fact
/fakt/
noun
1.
a thing that is known or proved to be true:
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Given that a fact is something that is PROVEN to be TRUE, what is the difference between a PROVEN fact and a TRUE fact?
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"Cadaver dogs confirmed the onetime presence of a cadaver in the room" - is that a Proven Fact, a True Fact or neither?
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keep digging rthat big hole...people would expect proven facts to be true.Most sceptics if not all beleive that the proven facts re the alerts as true.
I don't think it's me who's in a hole.
I don't care what others believe, the judge made the position pertfectly clear to Gerry McCann
GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
Judge - We are not here to prove if the contents of the book are truthful or not. Here we are only trying to establish if the freedom of expression of the defendants has affected the rights of the claimants. This court cannot be a substitute of the criminal investigation.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.0
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So are we all agreed that we have learned very little in the past 16 years about Madeleine's disappearance?
I agree.
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I don't think it's me who's in a hole.
I don't care what others believe, the judge made the position pertfectly clear to Gerry McCann
GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
Judge - We are not here to prove if the contents of the book are truthful or not. Here we are only trying to establish if the freedom of expression of the defendants has affected the rights of the claimants. This court cannot be a substitute of the criminal investigation.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.0
It seems you don't realise you're in the hole. So the judge confirmed they were not ther to establish if the facts were true..yet allowed them to be referred to as proven
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I don't think it's me who's in a hole.
I don't care what others believe, the judge made the position pertfectly clear to Gerry McCann
GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
Judge - We are not here to prove if the contents of the book are truthful or not. Here we are only trying to establish if the freedom of expression of the defendants has affected the rights of the claimants. This court cannot be a substitute of the criminal investigation.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.0
Do you understand what veracity means
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I don't think it's me who's in a hole.
I don't care what others believe, the judge made the position pertfectly clear to Gerry McCann
GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
Judge - We are not here to prove if the contents of the book are truthful or not. Here we are only trying to establish if the freedom of expression of the defendants has affected the rights of the claimants. This court cannot be a substitute of the criminal investigation.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.0
not to establish if the allegations contained in the book are untrue and therefore libellous, yet that is how you have interpreted it.
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It would be nice to return to the thread topic. Perhaps those who want to continue to complain about the libel trial could do it on a more suitable thread.
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It would be nice to return to the thread topic. Perhaps those who want to continue to complain about the libel trial could do it on a more suitable thread.
If you look back you will see it was you who brought up the trial and took the thread off topic..you did the same two days ago..
So if you want to stay on topic best not to continually take it off topic
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It would be nice to return to the thread topic. Perhaps those who want to continue to complain about the libel trial could do it on a more suitable thread.
One thing we have learned in 16 years is that forum threads rarely stay on topic for long, most veer off at a tangent. As far as the “libel” trial is concerned we have learned that there are proven facts and true facts and the two things are completely different (&^&
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One of the things we have learned is that Amaral didn't libel the McCanns according to the laws of Portugal. Neither did Portugal breach their human rights according to the ECHR. Some people disagree, but that's just their 'armchair lawyer' opinion.
This is gunit raising the ECHR on this thread and then complains about the thread being taken off topic
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This is gunit raising the ECHR on this thread and then complains about the thread being taken off topic
Same old same old.
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The only award to Murat I can see is that TVI had to pay him Eur20,000 for labelling him a paedophile on live TV. Were there others?
Yes.
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It seems to me to be quite difficult to wander Off Topic on this Thread as it could include absolutely anything that some of us, even I didn't know.
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So are we all agreed that we have learned very little in the past 16 years about Madeleine's disappearance?
Yep, the girl disappeared in as yet unexplained circumstances.
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Yep, the girl disappeared in as yet unexplained circumstances.
It's been explained
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It's been explained
Wolters can explain everything. Just have faith in him & he will lead us to the promised land.
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It's been explained
You show where then ?
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Some people stay in ignorance...others continue to learn. I've learnt and understood an enormous amount during the last 15 yes re this case
I think John's motive for starting this thread was to knock SY.
The reason sceptic posters can't accept anything that shows the parents innocence is they cannot let go of the cadaver dog alerts . What I see is that the misplaced faith the PJ put in Grime and his dogs took the investigation into the wrong direction.
Lenny Harper was heavily criticised for doing the same in Jersey.
In Jersey the investigation collected and counted teeth where the dog alerted. In his white paper some 12 years later Grime says the dog will not react to teeth..
What a contradiction..with many sceptics claiming teeth are human remains.
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Some people stay in ignorance...others continue to learn. I've learnt and understood an enormous amount during the last 15 yes re this case
I think John's motive for starting this thread was to knock SY.
The reason sceptic posters can't accept anything that shows the parents innocence is they cannot let go of the cadaver dog alerts . What I see is that the misplaced faith the PJ put in Grime and his dogs took the investigation into the wrong direction.
Lenny Harper was heavily criticised for doing the same in Jersey.
In Jersey the investigation collected and counted teeth where the dog alerted. In his white paper some 12 years later Grime says the dog will not react to teeth..
What a contradiction..with many sceptics claiming teeth are human remains.
We've learnt you had no understanding of how the ECHR work,
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Yes.
Found it! Correio da Manhã condemned to pay €15,000 in damages.
https://www.portugalresident.com/maddie-case-victim-robert-murat-wins-damages-for-being-labelled-pedophile-on-live-tv/
Although it took years, the Portuguese courts delivered for Murat then.
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Some people stay in ignorance...others continue to learn. I've learnt and understood an enormous amount during the last 15 yes re this case
I think John's motive for starting this thread was to knock SY.
The reason sceptic posters can't accept anything that shows the parents innocence is they cannot let go of the cadaver dog alerts . What I see is that the misplaced faith the PJ put in Grime and his dogs took the investigation into the wrong direction.
Lenny Harper was heavily criticised for doing the same in Jersey.
In Jersey the investigation collected and counted teeth where the dog alerted. In his white paper some 12 years later Grime says the dog will not react to teeth..
What a contradiction..with many sceptics claiming teeth are human remains.
What is there that shows the McCanns innocence?
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You show where then ?
Redwood said 'not suspects' & mumbled about criminal acts by strangers.
Wolters says he has concrete evidence.
You just have to believe them is all.
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We've learnt you had no understanding of how the ECHR work,
I've more understanding than anyone here..my explanations simply go right over your head. I said from day 1, 2017 that the claim would be presumption of innocence and right to reputation..spot on.
You will be criticised for taking the thread off topic LOL..
Even Isabelle McFadden congratulated me when I took on 6 sceptics in a live debate on twitter space. ,..you can try and knock me if you want but all you do is show your lack of knowledge
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Yep, the girl disappeared in as yet unexplained circumstances.
Things we know now that we didn't know then - a dangerous rapist, burglar and child abuser lived in close proximity to PdL and his phone was used in PdL that night. That gives us a suspect with means, motive and very likely opportunity. What we haven't learned yet is what evidence (if any) the German police have that points more firmly at this man, but we do know that they are convinced he committed the crime. We also know that he is the only official suspect (arguido) in this case. Neither the Portuguese police nor the Met have come out and stated that the Germans are wrong and are pursuing other leads.
We will just have to wait and see. In the meantime we know for a fact that the parents are not official suspects.
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Things we know now that we didn't know then - a dangerous rapist, burglar and child abuser lived in close proximity to PdL and his phone was used in PdL that night. That gives us a suspect with means, motive and very likely opportunity. What we haven't learned yet is what evidence (if any) the German police have that points more firmly at this man, but we do know that they are convinced he committed the crime. We also know that he is the only official suspect (arguido) in this case. Neither the Portuguese police nor the Met have come out and stated that the Germans are wrong and are pursuing other leads.
We will just have to wait and see. In the meantime we know for a fact that the parents are not official suspects.
Didn't SY have no jurisdiction to investigate the McCanns anyway?
And good luck waiting for Brueckner to be charged. It shouldn't be much longer now.
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Things we know now that we didn't know then - a dangerous rapist, burglar and child abuser lived in close proximity to PdL and his phone was used in PdL that night. That gives us a suspect with means, motive and very likely opportunity. What we haven't learned yet is what evidence (if any) the German police have that points more firmly at this man, but we do know that they are convinced he committed the crime. We also know that he is the only official suspect (arguido) in this case. Neither the Portuguese police nor the Met have come out and stated that the Germans are wrong and are pursuing other leads.
We will just have to wait and see. In the meantime we know for a fact that the parents are not official suspects.
This Thread has turned out to be better than I first thought. All of us have learned a thing or two. Albeit just something that we might have missed. But The Jonny Come Latelys don't want to know.
Never mind. It isn't that important. While Sceptics continue to prove their ignorance.
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This Thread has turned out to be better than I first thought. All of us have learned a thing or two. Albeit just something that we might have missed. But The Jonny Come Latelys don't want to know.
Never mind. It isn't that important. While Sceptics continue to prove their ignorance.
Maybe you can tell me then, because I didn't get an answer from davel.
What is there that shows the McCanns innocence?
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Wolters has been investigating Brueckner for nearly six years, announced him as prime suspect almost three years ago. Still no charges in sight though. The evidence against him must be very conclusive, perhaps Wolters just needs a bit more time to strengthen his case. Yes, that must be it. Just be patient everyone. Let's all just wait & see. Best we give him another six years before we write him off completely.
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You show where then ?
I'm happy to..but need to check how well you understand evidence first ..so based on the premise of beyond reasonable doubt..do you accept CB is guilty of the rape of DM..which he was found guilty of
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Found it! Correio da Manhã condemned to pay €15,000 in damages.
https://www.portugalresident.com/maddie-case-victim-robert-murat-wins-damages-for-being-labelled-pedophile-on-live-tv/
Although it took years, the Portuguese courts delivered for Murat then.
Great! So your Google thingy does work after all 🦉 Did you learn anything about 'Diário de Notícias' while you were about it?
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Maybe you can tell me then, because I didn't get an answer from davel.
What is there that shows the McCanns innocence?
What is it that shows their guilt? Such a pity because I doubt that you are as stupid as you pretend to be.
I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, but I do mind when someone of obvious intelligence behaves like a brain dead moron just to disrupt.
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What is it that shows their guilt? Such a pity because I doubt that you are as stupid as you pretend to be.
I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, but I do mind when someone of obvious intelligence behaves like a brain dead moron just to disrupt.
No no, I'm not disrupting anything at all. Davel raised the point that sceptics won't accept anything that shows the McCanns innocence. So, presumably there must me be something that shows the McCanns innocence then, & I'd like to know what there is.
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No no, I'm not disrupting anything at all. Davel raised the point that sceptics won't accept anything that shows the McCanns innocence. So, presumably there must me be something that shows the McCanns innocence then, & I'd like to know what there is.
There's plenty..it's all been discussed but you don't accept it. Let's just take one..the lack of enough evidence to arrest..charge..or prosecute them. If they were tried in court in the present evidence they would be found not guilty..that is an indication of innocence
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So, Eleanor gets to call me a braindead moron. Nil warning points.
I reply in kind. Instant points.
Yes, that seems fair.
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There's plenty..it's all been discussed but you don't accept it. Let's just take one..the lack of enough evidence to arrest..charge..or prosecute them. If they were tried in court in the present evidence they would be found not guilty..that is an indication of innocence
It could just mean that the police failed to gather the evidence though. That doesn't mean there wasn't any to be found in the first place. No, I'm sorry. That won't do. Try again.
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There's plenty..it's all been discussed but you don't accept it. Let's just take one..the lack of enough evidence to arrest..charge..or prosecute them. If they were tried in court in the present evidence they would be found not guilty..that is an indication of innocence
This would certainly be enough to convince the troll that CB was innocent, strange how it doesn't apply when it's the McCanns though.
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So, Eleanor gets to call me a braindead moron. Nil warning points.
I reply in kind & call her an old bag. Instant points.
Yes, that seems fair.
I have given you No Points.
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It could just mean that the police failed to gather the evidence though. That doesn't mean there wasn't any to be found in the first place. No, I'm sorry. That won't do. Try again.
No one has to try with you. You destroy your own arguments.
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I have given you No Points.
Brietta did. In fairness, she should have either let the matter slide or awarded you points for insulting me. But that isn't going to happen.
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No one has to try with you. You destroy your own arguments.
All you're good for is insulting other members Eleanor. That much is plain for all to see.
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Brietta did. In fairness, she should have either let the matter slide or awarded you points for insulting me. But that isn't going to happen.
I didn't insult you. I paid you a compliment.
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This would certainly be enough to convince the troll that CB was innocent, strange how it doesn't apply when it's the McCanns though.
The problem with ruling out the McCanns is that you have to trust their word that Madeleine was alive & in her bed on the evening of May 3rd, available to be abducted. But there really is no way to confirm that she was I'm afraid.
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Found it! Correio da Manhã condemned to pay €15,000 in damages.
https://www.portugalresident.com/maddie-case-victim-robert-murat-wins-damages-for-being-labelled-pedophile-on-live-tv/
Although it took years, the Portuguese courts delivered for Murat then.
Interestingly the Portuguese appeal court judgement follows the line that one would expect in determining the outcome of a trial for defamation -
Morning Mail ordered to pay 15,<> euros to Robert Murat
Court finds that newspaper went too far in the published news about British citizen who came to be accused in the Maddie case.
Ana Henriques
May 6, 2013, 20:09
"The objective of increasing runs cannot be obnubilar of journalistic duties, respect for the presumption of innocence, of not collecting statements or images that affect the dignity of people, as well as publishing news that creates discrimination," the judges observe in a judgment dated mid-last month and now made public.
....................................................................
For the Lisbon Court of Appeal, the argument of the public interest cannot be used to justify "the warp of 'facts', insinuations" and conjectures attributed to the British — who came to be constituted accused in the Maddie case — "a sick personality in the area not only of pedophilia but even of zooestia, compatible with the practice of criminal wrongdoing related to the disappearance of the unfortunate child".
https://www.publico.pt/2013/05/06/sociedade/noticia/correio-da-manha-condenado-a-pagar-15-mil-euros-a-robert-murat-1593550
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Interestingly the Portuguese appeal court judgement follows the line that one would expect in determining the outcome of a trial for defamation -
Morning Mail ordered to pay 15,<> euros to Robert Murat
Court finds that newspaper went too far in the published news about British citizen who came to be accused in the Maddie case.
Ana Henriques
May 6, 2013, 20:09
"The objective of increasing runs cannot be obnubilar of journalistic duties, respect for the presumption of innocence, of not collecting statements or images that affect the dignity of people, as well as publishing news that creates discrimination," the judges observe in a judgment dated mid-last month and now made public.
....................................................................
For the Lisbon Court of Appeal, the argument of the public interest cannot be used to justify "the warp of 'facts', insinuations" and conjectures attributed to the British — who came to be constituted accused in the Maddie case — "a sick personality in the area not only of pedophilia but even of zooestia, compatible with the practice of criminal wrongdoing related to the disappearance of the unfortunate child".
https://www.publico.pt/2013/05/06/sociedade/noticia/correio-da-manha-condenado-a-pagar-15-mil-euros-a-robert-murat-1593550
Every case is different, naturally.
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Interestingly the Portuguese appeal court judgement follows the line that one would expect in determining the outcome of a trial for defamation -
Morning Mail ordered to pay 15,<> euros to Robert Murat
Court finds that newspaper went too far in the published news about British citizen who came to be accused in the Maddie case.
Ana Henriques
May 6, 2013, 20:09
"The objective of increasing runs cannot be obnubilar of journalistic duties, respect for the presumption of innocence, of not collecting statements or images that affect the dignity of people, as well as publishing news that creates discrimination," the judges observe in a judgment dated mid-last month and now made public.
....................................................................
For the Lisbon Court of Appeal, the argument of the public interest cannot be used to justify "the warp of 'facts', insinuations" and conjectures attributed to the British — who came to be constituted accused in the Maddie case — "a sick personality in the area not only of pedophilia but even of zooestia, compatible with the practice of criminal wrongdoing related to the disappearance of the unfortunate child".
https://www.publico.pt/2013/05/06/sociedade/noticia/correio-da-manha-condenado-a-pagar-15-mil-euros-a-robert-murat-1593550
This is all such a waste of time. Why do we go on doing this? Is there some facet of human nature that I don't understand and has completely passed me by? Especially since the accusations against The McCanns are obviously going nowhere.
My childhood was not of the best, but I don't feel so badly as some of you do. The McCanns were way better parents than I ever had, but I am not resentful of that. So what was it that makes some of you hate them so much?
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This is all such a waste of time. Why do we go on doing this? Is there some facet of human nature that I don't understand and has completely passed me by? Especially since the accusations against The McCanns are obviously going nowhere.
My childhood was not of the best, but I don't feel so badly as some of you do. The McCanns were way better parents than I ever had, but I am not resentful of that. So what was it that makes some of you hate them so much?
What is there to like about the McCanns?
I can't think of anything.
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This is all such a waste of time. Why do we go on doing this? Is there some facet of human nature that I don't understand and has completely passed me by? Especially since the accusations against The McCanns are obviously going nowhere.
My childhood was not of the best, but I don't feel so badly as some of you do. The McCanns were way better parents than I ever had, but I am not resentful of that. So what was it that makes some of you hate them so much?
Not me, I have no feelings towards the McCanns at all. Some posters seem to be close to hating Goncalo Amaral, however, imo.
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Not me, I have no feelings towards the McCanns at all. Some posters seem to be close to hating Goncalo Amaral, however, imo.
In Your Opinion. Thank goodness for that for a change.
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It could just mean that the police failed to gather the evidence though. That doesn't mean there wasn't any to be found in the first place. No, I'm sorry. That won't do. Try again.
Lack of evidence suggests innocence whether you likr it or not
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Lack of evidence suggests innocence whether you like it or not
Glad thats cleared up, who's the next one after CB.
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Not me, I have no feelings towards the McCanns at all. Some posters seem to be close to hating Goncalo Amaral, however, imo.
I dont see anyone hating Amaral...if youve read my posts, particularly recently , I say he probably actually beleives his thesis because of the way Grime promoted his dogs. Amaral thought the dogs had never been wrong in 200 cases...he thought they were the best dogs in the world and grime was the best handler. if that was true then hes absolutely right to be convinced the mccannns are guilty. the problem is...none of it is true.. i blame Grime for not making this clear. I have no feelings towards the mccAnns apart from sympathy for their loss and the abuse they receive from morons on the net
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Not me, I have no feelings towards the McCanns at all. Some posters seem to be close to hating Goncalo Amaral, however, imo.
You have no feelings for the McCanns but so often you seem quite contemptuous of them. Please be honest. At the very least you disapprove of and dislike them. How could you not, seeing as how you suspect them of dishonesty and worse in the disappearance of their child?
I dislike Amaral and think he's a lying, money-grubbing, not-very-bright exploitative git. But apart from that I have no feelings towards him @)(++(*
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You have no feelings for the McCanns but so often you seem quite contemptuous of them. Please be honest. At the very least you disapprove of and dislike them. How could you not, seeing as how you suspect them of dishonesty and worse in the disappearance of their child?
I dislike Amaral and think he's a lying, money-grubbing, not-very-bright exploitative git. But apart from that I have no feelings towards him @)(++(*
What are you like with people who do you real harm, mind thats the true you you've shown.
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Glad thats cleared up, who's the next one after CB.
Davel does appear to be suggesting CB is innocent. Which is strange, because he also believes Wolters has solved the case? Yes. Clear as mud.
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What are you like with people who do you real harm, mind thats the true you you've shown.
I would be a bit careful if I were you.
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I dont see anyone hating Amaral...if youve read my posts, particularly recently , I say he probably actually beleives his thesis because of the way Grime promoted his dogs. Amaral thought the dogs had never been wrong in 200 cases...he thought they were the best dogs in the world and grime was the best handler. if that was true then hes absolutely right to be convinced the mccannns are guilty. the problem is...none of it is true.. i blame Grime for not making this clear. I have no feelings towards the mccAnns apart from sympathy for their loss and the abuse they receive from morons on the net
So you feel it was unjustified?
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What are you like with people who do you real harm, mind thats the true you you've shown.
What true me is that? Someone who dislikes a lying, money-grubbing, not-very-bright, exploitative ex-copper? Big wow. I never give Amaral any thought at all except when his name comes up on here, and then his name engenders feelings of mild revulsion. I can't help it. I reserve far stronger feelings for people who do me real harm, not that there are many of those in the world. I have mostly been treated well by others, so aren't I lucky?
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This is all such a waste of time. Why do we go on doing this? Is there some facet of human nature that I don't understand and has completely passed me by? Especially since the accusations against The McCanns are obviously going nowhere.
My childhood was not of the best, but I don't feel so badly as some of you do. The McCanns were way better parents than I ever had, but I am not resentful of that. So what was it that makes some of you hate them so much?
There are lots of words which would explain it, El, but I think it can best be summed up with "empathy". Some have it in spades and others evidence a severe lack of.
There is nothing to be done about it ~ particularly as far as opinion posters using the internet are concerned ~ fortunately in the real world there are checks and balances which iron out most of the differences.
Posting on the forum about the McCann family has certainly been an education for me. None more so than reading responses to this thread topic. I come over all Victor Meldrewish - "I don't belieeeeeve it"
So some of us may have learned nothing over the past sixteen years but evidently those investigating Madeleine McCann's case have learned a great deal. And these are the guys who matter.
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What true me is that? Someone who dislikes a lying, money-grubbing, not-very-bright, exploitative ex-copper? Big wow. I never give Amaral any thought at all except when his name comes up on here, and then his name engenders feelings of mild revulsion. I can't help it. I reserve far stronger feelings for people who do me real harm, not that there are many of those in the world. I have mostly been treated well by others, so aren't I lucky?
This is a shame, because I spoke to Amaral & he told me that he thinks you're lovely & not in the least bit sanctimonious.
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I would be a bit careful if I were you.
Threatening now? Makes a change from insults I suppose.
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The problem with ruling out the McCanns is that you have to trust their word that Madeleine was alive & in her bed on the evening of May 3rd, available to be abducted. But there really is no way to confirm that she was I'm afraid.
Might not do for you but in the real world the fact there is not enough evidence to charge is evidence of innocence..they don't have to prove it
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There are lots of words which would explain it, El, but I think it can best be summed up with "empathy". Some have it in spades and others evidence a severe lack of.
There is nothing to be done about it ~ particularly as far as opinion posters using the internet are concerned ~ fortunately in the real world there are checks and balances which iron out most of the differences.
Posting on the forum about the McCann family has certainly been an education for me. None more so than reading responses to this thread topic. I come over all Victor Meldrewish - "I don't belieeeeeve it"
So some of us may have learned nothing over the past sixteen years but evidently those investigating Madeleine McCann's case have learned a great deal. And these are the guys who matter.
First the Portuguese, then the English and now the Germans have tried to solve Madeleine's disappearance but none have managed it.
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The problem with ruling out the McCanns is that you have to trust their word that Madeleine was alive & in her bed on the evening of May 3rd, available to be abducted. But there really is no way to confirm that she was I'm afraid.
If the story about Payne's visit to 5a is anything to go by I think we can take much of what has been said with a mighty pinch of salt. The discrepancy in the versions of events in the hours before Madeleine was reported missing is just too wide to be reliable.
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Might not do for you but in the real world the fact there is not enough evidence to charge is evidence of innocence..they don't have to prove it
Right, so you agree Brueckner is innocent. That's good to know.
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There isn't enough evidence to charge anyone in connection with Madeleine's disappearance.
That in it's self is evidence everyone is innocent.
So no abduction, or death in the apartment. The only legally acceptable explanation for Madeleine’s disappearance is that she left of her own accord & went to start life anew. Madeleine simply disappeared, until proven otherwise. That is a proven fact.
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First the Portuguese, then the English and now the Germans have tried to solve Madeleine's disappearance but none have managed it.
The Germans with the help of SY have solved it where the PJ failed
They also solved the DM rape case where the PJ failed
CB is charged with another rape and two more paedophile charged..thanks to SY and the BKA..again where the PJ failed
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If the story about Payne's visit to 5a is anything to go by I think we can take much of what has been said with a mighty pinch of salt. The discrepancy in the versions of events in the hours before Madeleine was reported missing is just too wide to be reliable.
The most likely explanation is poor translations..without verbatim statements in English it's impossible to say
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If the story about Payne's visit to 5a is anything to go by I think we can take much of what has been said with a mighty pinch of salt. The discrepancy in the versions of events in the hours before Madeleine was reported missing is just too wide to be reliable.
*shakes head in disbelief*
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The Germans with the help of SY have solved it where the PJ failed
They also solved the DM rape case where the PJ failed
CB is charged with another rape and two more paedophile charged..thanks to SY and the BKA..again where the PJ failed
So when does Brueckner's trial start then?
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Charges for the murder of MM to follow? You really still believe that?
I think it's most likely
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The most likely explanation is poor translations..without verbatim statements in English it's impossible to say
Any discrepancies will be put to bed when the McCanns are called as witnesses during Brueckner's trial.
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So you feel it was unjustified?
I think it was a disgrace
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I think it's most likely
Based on anything in particular, or just blind faith in Wolters?
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*shakes head in disbelief*
It was rather... unbelievable. He said...she said... @)(++(*
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It was rather... unbelievable. He said...she said... @)(++(*
So you think there was something devious going on between DP and Kate McCann do you? I mean, you’ve obviously never come across the phenomenon of witnesses recalling events slightly differently from each other or getting details completely wrong have you? Like that nosey social worker who ascribed a long scar to DP’s face when she was decribing him, a scar he doesn’t actually possess? Yes, it must be that DP and Kate McCann were covering something up that happened earlier that evening - and then by sheer coincidence Madeleine woke and wandered out of the apartment later on, as you seem to believe *%87
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Based on anything in particular, or just blind faith in Wolters?
I've answered several questions and happy to answer more but first..do you believe beyond reasonable doubt that CB is guilty of the rape of DM
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There are lots of words which would explain it, El, but I think it can best be summed up with "empathy". Some have it in spades and others evidence a severe lack of.
There is nothing to be done about it ~ particularly as far as opinion posters using the internet are concerned ~ fortunately in the real world there are checks and balances which iron out most of the differences.
Posting on the forum about the McCann family has certainly been an education for me. None more so than reading responses to this thread topic. I come over all Victor Meldrewish - "I don't belieeeeeve it"
So some of us may have learned nothing over the past sixteen years but evidently those investigating Madeleine McCann's case have learned a great deal. And these are the guys who matter.
We empathise with others when we are able to imagine how they feel. To empathise with the McCanns is remarkably easy, because they have told us how they have been feeling ever since their daughter was allegedly abducted. All people need to do is believe in the stranger abduction. It's not so easy for those who doubt that is what happened.
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We empathise with others when we are able to imagine how they feel. To empathise with the McCanns is remarkably easy, because they have told us how they have been feeling ever since their daughter was allegedly abducted. All people need to do is believe in the stranger abduction. It's not so easy for those who doubt that is what happened.
You have no apparent understanding of what empathy is. You don’t have to be told how someone is feeling in order to be able to empathise with them
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First the Portuguese, then the English and now the Germans have tried to solve Madeleine's disappearance but none have managed it.
There was no chance that Amaral's investigation would solve anything. But they could have. At one time they were showing an interest in Brueckner. And they had unsolved crimes to crack involving home invasions among which was the forensic evidence of Brueckner's pubic hair.
The McCann private detectives didn't have the resources the National forces have but they kept the investigation alive when no-one else was and their evidence was passed on when Scotland Yard took over.
I think your judgement that SY and the BKA haven't managed to solve the case is premature. Madeleine's is still an active case and while that situation prevails is capable of resolution.
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Based on anything in particular, or just blind faith in Wolters?
Wolters only conveys what he’s told to.
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We empathise with others when we are able to imagine how they feel. To empathise with the McCanns is remarkably easy, because they have told us how they have been feeling ever since their daughter was allegedly abducted. All people need to do is believe in the stranger abduction. It's not so easy for those who doubt that is what happened.
There are individuals who have no empathy for a child who went missing when she was three and who have striven over the sixteen years of her absence to ensure that every initiative taken on her behalf was obstructed.
That starts with objection to fund money raised to finance the search for her when only her parents were keeping the investigation alive. It continued in resistance to her parent's attempts to have her case taken up by the British authorities and investigation started.
Where the malice and lack of empathy will end - I haven't a clue. But the difference in attitude and empathy shown to desperate parents and the suspect in Madeleine's disappearance who happens to be a burglar, convicted rapist and child abuser, is very marked.
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You have no apparent understanding of what empathy is. You don’t have to be told how someone is feeling in order to be able to empathise with them
Your skill of grasping the wrong end of the stick is impressive. As I said, we can imagine how they feel.
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There are individuals who have no empathy for a child who went missing when she was three and who have striven over the sixteen years of her absence to ensure that every initiative taken on her behalf was obstructed.
That starts with objection to fund money raised to finance the search for her when only her parents were keeping the investigation alive. It continued in resistance to her parent's attempts to have her case taken up by the British authorities and investigation started.
Where the malice and lack of empathy will end - I haven't a clue. But the difference in attitude and empathy shown to desperate parents and the suspect in Madeleine's disappearance who happens to be a burglar, convicted rapist and child abuser, is very marked.
How can you empathise with a child when you don't know what happened to her? Doesn't that make it difficult to 'walk in her shoes'?
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How can you empathise with a child when you don't know what happened to her? Doesn't that make it difficult to 'walk in her shoes'?
I sympathize.does that make it better
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Your skill of grasping the wrong end of the stick is impressive. As I said, we can imagine how they feel.
Can we? Tell me how they feel then.
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How can you empathise with a child when you don't know what happened to her? Doesn't that make it difficult to 'walk in her shoes'?
I knew you couldn’t do empathy. There was a little girl alone in the dark. Something bad happened to her. And you can’t put yourself in her shoes and imagine how she would have felt during this ordeal? Astonishing.
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I would be a bit careful if I were you.
Away with you, the sun will rise again tomorrow if spared I'll see it again so you have no impact on life at all.
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I knew you couldn’t do empathy. There was a little girl alone in the dark. Something bad happened to her. And you can’t put yourself in her shoes and imagine how she would have felt during this ordeal? Astonishing.
How do you know there was a lttle girl alone in the dark?
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How do you know there was a lttle girl alone in the dark?
Oh wait. You think Madeline died surrounded by family during the day? My mistake.
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I've answered several questions and happy to answer more but first..do you believe beyond reasonable doubt that CB is guilty of the rape of DM
No, I believe he is innocent. I've seen no evidence he ever raped DM.
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I knew you couldn’t do empathy. There was a little girl alone in the dark. Something bad happened to her. And you can’t put yourself in her shoes and imagine how she would have felt during this ordeal? Astonishing.
Madeleine was not alone in the dark. She had the abductor to keep her company. Also, Kate believed Madeleine had been drugged. She was very clearly unconscious when Jane Tanner witnessed her abduction, so she wouldn't have felt anything.
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Wolters only conveys what he’s told to.
I would like to know the names of the people feeding him information /disinformation.
I sometimes wonder if this has all been an effort to distract us from what really is happening in The Madeleine Case. To take the pressure off the perps? Could Wolters have been made a patsy of, I wonder. He seems so sincere that I think that he is truly sincere. Maybe he has been led on ? Dunno.
I think that to begin with we all thought that he was head honcho of the prosecutors at National level. I am afraid that whilst he is a very well presentd young man, his giant knotted tie and cut away collar gave it away to me, but in the first place I thought maybe that was how the top people in Germany dressed. Since then we found that he was only about Amarals level in Brunswick.
I hope that nobody has made a mug of him, because he has worked very hard and seems very sincere. I would hate to see him hurt.
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The Germans with the help of SY have solved it where the PJ failed
They also solved the DM rape case where the PJ failed
CB is charged with another rape and two more paedophile charged..thanks to SY and the BKA..again where the PJ failed
The BKA only managed to solve the DM case because Brueckner filmed the rape & then Bushching grassed him up. It wasn't thanks to any super sleuthing, just luck really. If the PJ hadn't been so diligent in recovering Brueckner's pubes from the crime scene then he might have got away with it.
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I would like to know the names of the people feeding him information /disinformation.
I sometimes wonder if this has all been an effort to distract us from what really is happening in The Madeleine Case. To take the pressure off the perps? Could Wolters have been made a patsy of, I wonder. He seems so sincere that I think that he is truly sincere. Maybe he has been led on ? Dunno.
I think that to begin with we all thought that he was head honcho of the prosecutors at National level. I am afraid that whilst he is a very well presentd young man, his giant knotted tie and cut away collar gave it away to me, but in the first place I thought maybe that was how the top people in Germany dressed. Since then we found that he was only about Amarals level in Brunswick.
I hope that nobody has made a mug of him, because he has worked very hard and seems very sincere. I would hate to see him hurt.
I didn't assume he was a 'head honcho' or that he worked nationally. The Braunschweig Prosecutors website told me he was their press officer.
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The BKA only managed to solve the DM case because Brueckner filmed the rape & then Bushching grassed him up. It wasn't thanks to any super sleuthing, just luck really. If the PJ hadn't been so diligent in recovering Brueckner's pubes from the crime scene then he might have got away with it.
CBs name was given to SY after they held a TV appeal organised by SY and the BKA following the relentless campaign by K and G to get justice for Maddie. I accept a public appeal is only routine police work not super..
The point is the PJ never even managed routine...
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I would like to know the names of the people feeding him information /disinformation.
I sometimes wonder if this has all been an effort to distract us from what really is happening in The Madeleine Case. To take the pressure off the perps? Could Wolters have been made a patsy of, I wonder. He seems so sincere that I think that he is truly sincere. Maybe he has been led on ? Dunno.
I think that to begin with we all thought that he was head honcho of the prosecutors at National level. I am afraid that whilst he is a very well presentd young man, his giant knotted tie and cut away collar gave it away to me, but in the first place I thought maybe that was how the top people in Germany dressed. Since then we found that he was only about Amarals level in Brunswick.
I hope that nobody has made a mug of him, because he has worked very hard and seems very sincere. I would hate to see him hurt.
I'm afraid you totally misunderestimate him.
He's just successfullly prosecuted a no body murder,. As rare as hens teeth in Germany.
He's charged CB for 5 other crimes..don't see how his collar and tie are relevant
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I'm afraid you totally misunderestimate him.
He's just successfullly prosecuted a no body murder,. As rare as hens teeth in Germany.
He's charged CB for 5 other crimes..don't see how his collar and tie are relevant
Was Wolters the prosecutor in the rape case?
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CBs name was given to SY after they held a TV appeal organised by SY and the BKA following the relentless campaign by K and G to get justice for Maddie. I accept a public appeal is only routine police work not super..
The point is the PJ never even managed routine...
Brueckner's dna wasn't on the database so his pubes couldn't be matched to anyone. The only information the PJ had at the time of the rape was that a 6 foot masked & tight wearing rapist had raped DM.
What sort of public appeal could they have done, given the limited information they had?
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She's alive and well, that's what we've learnt.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1736082/Madeleine-McCann-missing-german-girl-claims-to-be-maddie-mccann-tik-tok
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She's alive and well, that's what we've learnt.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1736082/Madeleine-McCann-missing-german-girl-claims-to-be-maddie-mccann-tik-tok
I hope that poor young woman gets the help she needs.
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I hope that poor young woman gets the help she needs.
I am very sceptical of this one. Thirteen to Twenty-one years of age she thinks she could be.
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I am very sceptical of this one. Thirteen to Twenty-one years of age she thinks she could be.
Easily resolved with a DNA sample from her, I would think.
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Even gobby squawking Sonia doesn't think she's Madeleine McCann... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_-emjNhdE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_-emjNhdE)
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Even gobby squawking Sonia doesn't think she's Madeleine McCann... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_-emjNhdE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_-emjNhdE)
Obviously not - Sonia is in the "Dogs Don't Lie" camp. Even if DNA evidence proved she WAS Madeleine McCann Sonia wouldn't believe it!
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Even gobby squawking Sonia doesn't think she's Madeleine McCann... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_-emjNhdE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_-emjNhdE)
Oh. I am beginning to believe she might be.
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Madeleine McCann's sister speaks out for first time on tragic anniversary
Madeleine McCann's sister lit a candle in her memory tonight as she joined her parents and well wishers on the poignant 16th anniversary of her disappearance and later said: "It's nice that everyone is here together but it's a sad occasion." Amelie, now 18, and applying to go to university was pictured for the first time since she was a toddler and gives a glimpse of what her older sibling may now look like as an adult.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/madeleine-mccann-s-sister-speaks-out-for-first-time-on-tragic-anniversary/ar-AA1aHBUC?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=71834040b79e4cb6bfb847e538da4be2&ei=23
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One thing we have learned is that the McCanns are a strong family and their tragedy has not destroyed them as it might have done others.
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I've learned that Amelie looks like her dad.
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And Spammy The Thread Stopper Strikes Again.
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And Spammy The Thread Stopper Strikes Again.
I wasn't wumming. Can see the family resemblance is all. She has her fathers nose & face shape imo. Am I alone in thinking this? I wonder if Sean is the same, or perhaps he has his mother's facial structure.
Where's Sadie? She's the expert on this sort of thing here.
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I wasn't wumming. Can see the family resemblance is all. She has her fathers nose & face shape imo. Am I alone in thinking this? I wonder if Sean is the same, or perhaps he has his mother's facial structure.
Where's Sadie? She's the expert on this sort of thing here.
Does it matter? She is a very brave girl. About to go out into the real world unprotected.
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Does it matter? She is a very brave girl. About to go out into the real world unprotected.
No, it doesn't matter at all. Just my observation. She looks like a cross between her mother & father. Which is to be expected really I suppose.
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Does it matter? She is a very brave girl. About to go out into the real world unprotected.
Obviously there will have been a lot of thought and family dissuasion about this initiative. Bravo!
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4th May, 2023
I am writing this message to the media in general. I expect it may not appear in print or on-line but hope that it will spark a conscience in some.
As we do every year, we gathered in our village yesterday evening to mark the anniversary of our daughter Madeleine’s abduction. It was a special event and lovely to sense the hope and warmth of those who were there.
I was dismayed, however, that this sadly provided an opportunity for a local journalist to exploit the presence of our younger daughter who does not wish to be photographed or interviewed and was made to feel uncomfortable, especially at such a special moment of hope for Madeleine.
Our son and daughter turned eighteen this year - but I truly hope this will not make them targets for those journalists looking to make financial gain.
Please can I appeal to you that you respect our children’s privacy and let them live their lives.
Kate
http://www.findmadeleine.com/updates/index.html
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4th May, 2023
I am writing this message to the media in general. I expect it may not appear in print or on-line but hope that it will spark a conscience in some.
As we do every year, we gathered in our village yesterday evening to mark the anniversary of our daughter Madeleine’s abduction. It was a special event and lovely to sense the hope and warmth of those who were there.
I was dismayed, however, that this sadly provided an opportunity for a local journalist to exploit the presence of our younger daughter who does not wish to be photographed or interviewed and was made to feel uncomfortable, especially at such a special moment of hope for Madeleine.
Our son and daughter turned eighteen this year - but I truly hope this will not make them targets for those journalists looking to make financial gain.
Please can I appeal to you that you respect our children’s privacy and let them live their lives.
Kate
http://www.findmadeleine.com/updates/index.html
She was in a public place. Perhaps if she didn't wish to be photographed or interviewed she should refrain from attending public gatherings known to be frequented by the media every year. Just a thought.
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She was in a public place. Perhaps if she didn't wish to be photographed or interviewed she should refrain from attending public gatherings known to be frequented by the media every year. Just a thought.
Kate McCann still hasn't learned how the media works, it seems, despite years of experiencing it.
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Kate McCann still hasn't learned how the media works, it seems, despite years of experiencing it.
What a pathetic post 😥 but no surprises there.
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Kate McCann still hasn't learned how the media works, it seems, despite years of experiencing it.
And years of trying to protect her family. So no peace for her remaining children. They can never go anywhere without being hounded for something that is nothing to do with them. Just stay indoors and don't ever do anything. University? Good heavens. How dare they?
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Unforeseen consequences of a bad decision.
Media outlets will pursue anything that promises to make them money.
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Unforeseen consequences of a bad decision.
Media outlets will pursue anything that promises to make them money.
So are we now to see the hounding of The McCann Twins for ever more?
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And years of trying to protect her family. So no peace for her remaining children. They can never go anywhere without being hounded for something that is nothing to do with them. Just stay indoors and don't ever do anything. University? Good heavens. How dare they?
It is hard for teenagers under normal circumstances but Madeleine's siblings carry an enormous burden absolutely not of their making.
If decency doesn't dictate appropriate behaviour about publicity maybe they can be lumped in with the child murderers whose identities are protected for life. What an indictment that would be for decency and morality if the twins had to be singled out to protect them like that.
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So are we now to see the hounding of The McCann Twins for ever more?
There was no 'hounding' here. She was pictured in public, at a public event & asked to speak. She chose to speak. Maybe she should have taken a tip from her mother & just said 'no comment'.
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What a pathetic post 😥 but no surprises there.
If any posts are pathetic it's those who seem to think special treatment should apply to certain people.
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If any posts are pathetic it's those who seem to think special treatment should apply to certain people.
This is sick.
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This is sick.
It is the lack of posting skill which breaks the rules regarding personal attacks which tickles me 🤣
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Two innocent children should be hounded for all of their lives just because of who they are and who thy are related to.
I am pretty certain that there is a Law against this. And I think that I feel like throwing up.
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Two innocent children should be hounded for all of their lives just because of who they are and who thy are related to.
I am pretty certain that there is a Law against this. And I think that I feel like throwing up.
Well go throw up & then have a bit of a lie down. Maybe when you feel better you'll realise nobody has been hounded. If they had been, the McCanns would have reported the incident to the police. They didnt, because they can't, as no law has been broken. If Amelie wants to retain anonymity in future, maybe she should think about divorcing her parents, or simply don't go with them to gatherings frequented by the press. It's not as if she wouldn't have known there'd be photographers there. They go there every year ffs.
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Kate McCann still hasn't learned how the media works, it seems, despite years of experiencing it.
Oh? I thought she and her husband were supposed to be master manipulators who got the world’s press to do their bidding, brainwashing us sheeple that Madeleine was abducted?
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Oh? I thought she and her husband were supposed to be maste manipulators who got the world’s press to do their bidding, brainwashing us sheeple that Madeleine was abducted?
Same old same old. Sceptics never think things through.
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Well go throw up & then have a bit of a lie down. Maybe when you feel better you'll realise nobody has been hounded. If they had been, the McCanns would have reported the incident to the police. They didnt, because they can't, as no law has been broken. If Amelie wants to retain anonymity in future, maybe she should think about divorcing her parents, or simply don't go with them to gatherings frequented by the press. It's not as if she wouldn't have known there'd be photographers there. They go there every year ffs.
It wasn't difficult to predict what would happen.
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It wasn't difficult to predict what would happen.
And it wasn't difficult to know what your reaction would be.
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And it wasn't difficult to know what your reaction would be.
Victim blaming, the sceptic's favourite pastime.
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And it wasn't difficult to know what your reaction would be.
Nor yours.
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Nor yours.
Thank you for the compliment.
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Thank you for the compliment.
Well. Perhaps you're proud of the fact that you have an unrealistic view of the world? My view is pragmatic and I look at it how it is. Maybe you should accept that we have completely different approaches and accept that you can't expect everyone to think like you do.
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Well. Perhaps you're proud of the fact that you have an unrealistic view of the world? My view is pragmatic and I look at it how it is. Maybe you should accept that we have completely different approaches and accept that you can't expect everyone to think like you do.
I am only too aware of the fact that kindness is often too much to expect. Fortunately for me, that is your problem and not mine.
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Two innocent children should be hounded for all of their lives just because of who they are and who thy are related to.
I am pretty certain that there is a Law against this. And I think that I feel like throwing up.
Those who have notorious and newsworthy parents often suffer as a consequence.
Probably only illegal if stalked by photographers and the like.
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Those who have notorious and newsworthy parents often suffer as a consequence.
Probably only illegal if stalked by photographers and the like.
The McCanns are not notorious. They have never so much as even been arrested for anything, no matter how much some may think they should have been.
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I am only too aware of the fact that kindness is often too much to expect. Fortunately for me, that is your problem and not mine.
Kindness? There's not much of that around here imo.
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Kindness? There's not much of that around here imo.
How do you cope on Websleuths where you’re not able to get your nasty little digs into the McCanns quite so easily?
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How do you cope on Websleuths where you’re not able to get your nasty little digs into the McCanns quite so easily?
Fine thank you. Most of the things I have been accused of here weren't true anyway.
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Fine thank you. Most of the things I have been accused of here weren't true anyway.
In your opinion.
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There are Opinions and there are Facts. The two are sometimes confused. But after sixteen years and no luck with convicting The McCanns it now seems to be time to hound The McCann Twins. Or at least to deprive them of any protection from vociferous hatred. Hatred that stems entirely from Sceptics who have so miserably failed in their misbegotten endeavours.
I would tread very carefully if I were them.
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What a pathetic post 😥 but no surprises there.
I would have thought your post was more pathetic .. highlighting it and bringing it here in the first place B.
Obviously there will have been a lot of thought and family dissuasion about this initiative. Bravo!
Seems you were well wrong about that.
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There are Opinions and there are Facts. The two are sometimes confused. But after sixteen years and no luck with convicting The McCanns it now seems to be time to hound The McCann Twins. Or at least to deprive them of any protection from vociferous hatred. Hatred that stems entirely from Sceptics who have so miserably failed in their misbegotten endeavours.
I would tread very carefully if I were them.
What on earth are you talking about?
Who has expressed any hatred of the twins?
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What on earth are you talking about?
Who has expressed any hatred of the twins?
Are you stalking me?
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There are Opinions and there are Facts. The two are sometimes confused. But after sixteen years and no luck with convicting The McCanns it now seems to be time to hound The McCann Twins. Or at least to deprive them of any protection from vociferous hatred. Hatred that stems entirely from Sceptics who have so miserably failed in their misbegotten endeavours.
I would tread very carefully if I were them.
I notice Tracy Kandola, a long term McCann supporter, didn't mind writing the story in the tabloids.
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Madeleine McCann's parents say 'we're waiting for you' in 20th birthday message
In a Facebook post on the official Find Madeleine Campaign page, they wrote: “Happy birthday Madeleine! We love you and we’re waiting for you. We’re never going to give up.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-say-were-29960268
Someone really should tell them that she was murdered by Christian Brueckner.
Someone other than Wolters, who is in possession of ALL the FACTS & EVIDENCE.
Why do the McCanns doubt Wolters?
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Madeleine McCann's parents say 'we're waiting for you' in 20th birthday message
In a Facebook post on the official Find Madeleine Campaign page, they wrote: “Happy birthday Madeleine! We love you and we’re waiting for you. We’re never going to give up.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-say-were-29960268
Someone really should tell them that she was murdered by Christian Brueckner.
Someone other than Wolters, who is in possession of ALL the FACTS & EVIDENCE.
Why do the McCanns doubt Wolters?
They are entitled to their opinion which I'm sure you will go to the death to defend ;]
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How do sceptics square the McCanns' scepticism regarding HCW's claims with their own beliefs that the McCanns dunnit? How in the name of all that is logical and plausible do they explain why the McCanns would refuse to accept the German opinion that Madeleine was murdered by a paedophile when such an opinion gets them completely off the hook wrt to any direct involvement in their daughter's disappearance?
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How do sceptics square the McCanns' scepticism regarding HCW's claims with their own beliefs that the McCanns dunnit? How in the name of all that is logical and plausible do they explain why the McCanns would refuse to accept the German opinion that Madeleine was murdered by a paedophile when such an opinion gets them completely off the hook wrt to any direct involvement in their daughter's disappearance?
Don't be silly. Sceptics don't think. They know The McCanns dunnit and that's the end of that.
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Don't be silly. Sceptics don't think. They know The McCanns dunnit and that's the end of that.
There are certainl things they really don’t like to spend too much time thinking about and this is certainly one of them. I expect the troll will give some smartarse response but guaranteed it won’t make be either plausible or logical.
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How do sceptics square the McCanns' scepticism regarding HCW's claims with their own beliefs that the McCanns dunnit? How in the name of all that is logical and plausible do they explain why the McCanns would refuse to accept the German opinion that Madeleine was murdered by a paedophile when such an opinion gets them completely off the hook wrt to any direct involvement in their daughter's disappearance?
Wolters opinion doesn't get them off the hook. Only evidence can do that, & they know Wolters doesn't really have any. It's the rest of you who still can't figure that out.
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Of course there is also the sceptic belief that even if it never comes to court the Germans have done enough to make sure that the public at large will always believe that CB murdered Madeleine. Nothing short of a full confession by a.n. other supported by evidence is likely to change that official narrative. Again, why would the McCanns (having allegedly done away with their daughter) seek to cast any doubts whatsoever on this convenient narrative? Nope, there is no logical answer to that.
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Of course there is also the sceptic belief that even if it never comes to court the Germans have done enough to make sure that the public at large will always believe that CB murdered Madeleine. Nothing short of a full confession by a.n. other supported by evidence is likely to change that official narrative. Again, why would the McCanns (having allegedly done away with their daughter) seek to cast any doubts whatsoever on this convenient narrative? Nope, there is no logical answer to that.
This is the clincher for you is It?
The McCanns must be innocent because they doubt Wolters?
It's almost as daft as davels notion that Brueckner isn't suing, therefore he's guilty.
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Like I said, no logical answer just ridicule for something I didn’t actually say or claim. The very definition of a troll.
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Like I said, no logical answer just ridicule for something I didn’t actually say or claim. The very definition of a troll.
The McCanns will NEVER give up the search for Madeleine.What is it you don't understand about that?
Their website continues to state that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed. It's going to stay like that until they're both dead & no amount of local burgling Paedophiles will ever change it.
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The McCanns will NEVER give up the search for Madeleine.What is it you don't understand about that?
Their website continues to state that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed. It's going to stay like that until they're both dead & no amount of local burgling Paedophiles will ever change it.
It'll be interesting to see what happens if CB is convicted of murder.
Will McCann still insist that she came to no harm or will they accept the verdict and that they will have been wrong for close on twenty years?
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It'll be interesting to see what happens if CB is convicted of murder.
Will McCann still insist that she came to no harm or will they accept the verdict and that they will have been wrong for close on twenty years?
Interesting? Goodness me. How sick is that?
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Interesting? Goodness me. How sick is that?
Not very for anyone not emotionally involved.
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Not very for anyone not emotionally involved.
So why are you interested?
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It'll be interesting to see what happens if CB is convicted of murder.
Will McCann still insist that she came to no harm or will they accept the verdict and that they will have been wrong for close on twenty years?
LOL, what twisted crap is this that you are spouting? How are the McCanns wrong if a paedophile is convicted of abducting and murdering their child?
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So why are you interested?
Jassi claims not to be emotionally invested but she seems to have forgotten how clear she has made it that she detests the McCanns and wishes them only bad things. That is being emotionally involved, but she can't even see it.
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Jassi claims not to be emotionally invested but she seems to have forgotten how clear she has made it that she detests the McCanns and wishes them only bad things. That is being emotionally involved, but she can't even see it.
When has she said that? I would have clicked like on that post if I'd seen it, & I don't give out many likes.
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So why are you interested?
Because it is interesting.
I've no personal involvement with anyone in this case at all, but interested to see how it eventually pans out.
Its of no consequence to me what good/bad things befall people along the way.
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Because it is interesting.
I've no personal involvement with anyone in this case at all, but interested to see how it eventually pans out.
Its of no consequence to me what good/bad things befall people along the way.
This is a bit sad. And not at all like you as I perceive you to be.
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This is a bit sad. And not at all like you as I perceive you to be.
I've found it all profoundly sad for quite a long time now. We have learned that "empathy" is some sort of dirty word for some people. When empathy is one of the most important things separating man from beast.
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I've found it all profoundly sad for quite a long time now. We have learned that "empathy" is some sort of dirty word for some people. When empathy is one of the most important things separating man from beast.
It is certainly getting worse, possibly due to a Prime Suspect, whether he is guilty or innocent.
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It is certainly getting worse, possibly due to a Prime Suspect, whether he is guilty or innocent.
He's innocent.
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I've found it all profoundly sad for quite a long time now. We have learned that "empathy" is some sort of dirty word for some people. When empathy is one of the most important things separating man from beast.
Are rats 'beasts' I wonder?
In a famous 1958 experiment, hungry rats that were only fed if they pulled a lever to shock their littermates refused to do so, suggesting that the rodents have a sense of empathy and compassion for their fellows.
https://www.livescience.com/24800-animals-emotions-morality.html
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Are rats 'beasts' I wonder?
In a famous 1958 experiment, hungry rats that were only fed if they pulled a lever to shock their littermates refused to do so, suggesting that the rodents have a sense of empathy and compassion for their fellows.
https://www.livescience.com/24800-animals-emotions-morality.html
I can see the parallels to some animal featured on this Forum. When will the rats leave the sinking ship I have to wonder?
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Are rats 'beasts' I wonder?
In a famous 1958 experiment, hungry rats that were only fed if they pulled a lever to shock their littermates refused to do so, suggesting that the rodents have a sense of empathy and compassion for their fellows.
https://www.livescience.com/24800-animals-emotions-morality.html
Shocking to realise that some human beings have less empathy than rats....thanks for sharing.
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I would rather be an Elephant if no one minds.
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I have learned that some people are arrogant enough to think that their belief in their own opinions excuses their own truly awful behaviour.
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I have learned that some people are arrogant enough to think that their belief in their own opinions excuses their own truly awful behaviour.
Too Right. Well Said.
PS. Thanks for the apology.
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I empathise & care deeply about Christian Brueckner. Does that count?
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I empathise & care deeply about Christian Brueckner. Does that count?
We all care about Brueckner. Locked up 24/7 in isolation and in fear of his life, where he can't sexually abuse any more women or children.
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I have learned that some people are arrogant enough to think that their belief in their own opinions excuses their own truly awful behaviour.
Truly awful behaviour? Like Amaral's you mean? Or who else are you talking about?
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I have learned that some people are arrogant enough to think that their belief in their own opinions excuses their own truly awful behaviour.
Have you learnt enough to understand that's just your opinion or are you so arrogant you think it's fact
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Have you learnt enough to understand that's just your opinion or are you so arrogant you think it's fact
One has to laugh sometimes.
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There really is nothing to talk about in the case against the abductor right now. No annual update from Wolters. This time last year he was telling Sandra F about the fibres from Maddie's pyjamas that weren't found in Brueckner's campervan.
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I have learned that some people are arrogant enough to think that their belief in their own opinions excuses their own truly awful behaviour.
Please accept the "like" I have given your post. Have you really missed the irony 🤣
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Too Right. Well Said.
PS. Thanks for the apology.
Great minds really do think alike, I've just checked the "likes"
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Great minds really do think alike, I've just checked the "likes"
It utterly gobsmacked me and that takes some doing on this Forum these days.
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It's clear that the level of understanding displayed by some is very low.
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It's clear that the level of understanding displayed by some is very low.
I agree with that as well.
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It's clear that the level of understanding displayed by some is very low.
That’s rather rude, not to mention inaccurate. If you’re going to throw around accusations about “truly awful” behaviour and low levels of understanding then expect to have your chain yanked in replies.
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That’s rather rude, not to mention inaccurate. If you’re going to throw around accusations about “truly awful” behaviour and low levels of understanding then expect to have your chain yanked in replies.
My posts are a reaction to those made by others, so maybe those should be re-thought.
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My posts are a reaction to those made by others, so maybe those should be re-thought.
Or we could just have a little snigger about your posts
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My posts are a reaction to those made by others, so maybe those should be re-thought.
You appear to be deluded. There is no evidence whatsoever that The McCanns were involved in the disappearance of their daughter and we have every right to say so when aspersions are cast upon their honesty by persons like you. So it is the likes of you who are causing the problems. And that is a Fact.
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My posts are a reaction to those made by others, so maybe those should be re-thought.
So whose behaviour were you critiquing as “truly awful”?
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So whose behaviour were you critiquing as “truly awful”?
You won't get an answer to that, I bet.
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I agree with that as well.
Me too.
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Or we could just have a little snigger about your posts
Snigger away, but remember the adage about he who laughs last.
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I've learned the word snigger doesn't auto correct to s******
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You appear to be deluded. There is no evidence whatsoever that The McCanns were involved in the disappearance of their daughter and we have every right to say so when aspersions are cast upon their honesty by persons like you. So it is the likes of you who are causing the problems. And that is a Fact.
I'll see your 'no evidence whatsoever against the McCanns' and raise you Martin Smiths sighting.
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I'll see your 'no evidence whatsoever against the McCanns' and raise you Martin Smiths sighting.
The media said Mr Smith withdrew that allegation; but he didn't. Many people think he was mistaken, but are prepared to believe those who saw 'suspicious' people in PdL who, the media tell us, are now prepared to say it was CB they saw.
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The media said Mr Smith withdrew that allegation; but he didn't. Many people think he was mistaken, but are prepared to believe those who saw 'suspicious' people in PdL who, the media tell us, are now prepared to say it was CB they saw.
Is that it?
60 to 80% sure when Mr Smith didn't even see the man's face and the rest of his large family disagreed with him about it being Gerry. That one bombed out years ago.
I have no thoughts on it being Brueckner, but then I pay Brueckner the courtesy of Innocent Until Proven Guilty. Perhaps you should give that one a go.
Where or not Brueckner will ever be charged with the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann remains to be seen. I do know that The McCanns never will be.
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Is that it?
60 to 80% sure when Mr Smith didn't even see the man's face and the rest of his large family disagreed with him about it being Gerry. That one bombed out years ago.
I have no thoughts on it being Brueckner, but then I pay Brueckner the courtesy of Innocent Until Proven Guilty. Perhaps you should give that one a go.
Where or not Brueckner will ever be charged with the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann remains to be seen. I do know that The McCanns never will be.
Neither will Brueckner. You can take that to the bank. The McCanns will never be giving up the search for Madeleine, that means never, they've said so enough times. Even the concrete evidence against the murderer, gathered by the continued cooperation of the three expert investigative forces, isn't enough to convince them their missing daughter is dead.
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The media said Mr Smith withdrew that allegation; but he didn't. Many people think he was mistaken, but are prepared to believe those who saw 'suspicious' people in PdL who, the media tell us, are now prepared to say it was CB they saw.
Some here are content to ignore what DCI Redwood had to say about the Tanner sighting & continue to believe she witnessed Madeleine's abduction. But then, Brueckner owned some wigs, so maybe it was him.
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It's called Hope, Folks. Life without Hope is hardly worth living. And if as some say, this Hope is ridiculous, why are some of you still here Hoping to prove that The McCanns done it?
Such a horrible and pointless Hope which is never going to happen.
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It's called Hope, Folks. Life without Hope is hardly worth living. And if as some say, this Hope is ridiculous, why are some of you still here Hoping to prove that The McCanns done it?
Such a horrible and pointless Hope which is never going to happen.
Some of us are not hoping to prove the McCanns did anything, and haven't said they did. I don't know what happened to that little girl, but I do know that there wasn't definitive evidence that a stranger entered 5A and abducted her.
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Some of us are not hoping to prove the McCanns did anything, and haven't said they did. I don't know what happened to that little girl, but I do know that there wasn't definitive evidence that a stranger entered 5A and abducted her.
So what are you suggesting did happen? Or are you just peeing into the wind? For certain sure the pee pee is blowing back onto you with your nasty innuendos.
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Some of us are not hoping to prove the McCanns did anything, and haven't said they did. I don't know what happened to that little girl, but I do know that there wasn't definitive evidence that a stranger entered 5A and abducted her.
Wolters can prove Madeleine was taken in a criminal act by Christian Brueckner. He's just got to get his other crimes dealt with first. Madeline will just have to wait. But, mark my words, this time next year, Brueckner will be charged, then the party will truly be over for sceptics. Wolters has solved the case. So he said anyway. Although, he doesn't have much of anything to say right now.
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Wolters can prove Madeleine was taken in a criminal act by Christian Brueckner. He's just got to get his other crimes dealt with first. Madeline will just have to wait. But, mark my words, this time next year, Brueckner will be charged, then the party will truly be over for sceptics. Wolters has solved the case. So he said anyway. Although, he doesn't have much of anything to say right now.
While you as usual talk a pile of claptrap with nothing sensible to say at all.
In fact you are The Sceptics worst enemy and serving to prove that Sceptics are all raving bonkers.
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Some of us are not hoping to prove the McCanns did anything, and haven't said they did. I don't know what happened to that little girl, but I do know that there wasn't definitive evidence that a stranger entered 5A and abducted her.
One would have hoped you would have got over your angst by now. It has been over sixteen years by now.
Maybe you should think of taking a more proactive solution. Madeleine's parents did. And lo and behold, all these years down the line their efforts have resulted in a suspect being in the frame.
Work it out! A criminal - a paedophile - a rapist! What's not to like about this person? Well we'll maybe find out a little more once we hear about the five charges for crimes against women and children that he's doing his best to keep out of court.
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While you as usual talk a pile of claptrap with nothing sensible to say at all.
In fact you are The Sceptics worst enemy and serving to prove that Sceptics are all raving bonkers.
You've never said a truer word.
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You've never said a truer word.
Thank You. Am I right or am I right? Some of them even "Like" Spammy's mad ramblings.
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The media said Mr Smith withdrew that allegation; but he didn't. Many people think he was mistaken, but are prepared to believe those who saw 'suspicious' people in PdL who, the media tell us, are now prepared to say it was CB they saw.
Did Mr Smith definitively say he saw Gerry McCann without doubt? Because I seem to recall that he wasn't sure. His sighting is evidence he saw someone carrying a child, someone who he thought might be Gerry McCann based purely on the way he was carrying the child. Given that numerous witnesses in this case have stated things with 100% certainty and proven wrong how much weight should we give the Smith sighting? Is it evidence that Gerry McCann was involved in hiding his daughter's body at a time when others have put him at the restaurant?
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Did Mr Smith definitively say he saw Gerry McCann without doubt? Because I seem to recall that he wasn't sure. His sighting is evidence he saw someone carrying a child, someone who he thought might be Gerry McCann based purely on the way he was carrying the child. Given that numerous witnesses in this case have stated things with 100% certainty and proven wrong how much weight should we give the Smith sighting? Is it evidence that Gerry McCann was involved in hiding his daughter's body at a time when others have put him at the restaurant?
Others place him at the tapas, that's their evidence, true. That would be exculpatory evidence. So, Smiths 60 to 80% ID would also be evidence, wouldn't it.
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Others place him at the tapas, that's their evidence, true. That would be exculpatory evidence. So, Smiths 60 to 80% ID would also be evidence, wouldn't it.
No.
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No.
Why not? Can you explain to me why the witnesses at the tapas can give their evidence, but Martin Smith cannot?
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Why not? Can you explain to me why the witnesses at the tapas can give their evidence, but Martin Smith cannot?
You don't know much about The Law do you. Rhetorical Question.
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You don't know much about The Law do you. Rhetorical Question.
I'll take that as a no then.
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Witness statements are evidence. It's a simple enough concept that some seem unable to grasp. The McCanns have given their evidence, the other Tapas Guests did also, & so did Martin Smith. They have all presented evidence, haven't they? If not, then, What???
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Mr. Smith, are you sure it was Gerry McCann? No. End of.
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Mr. Smith, are you sure it was Gerry McCann? No. End of.
Mr Smith: But I'm more certain than not that it was him.
You see, you just presented the argument as if within a court setting. So the witness Mr Smith would be giving evidence, wouldn't he?
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No.
I (respectfully) disagree. It is evidence as pretty much everything collected in the files could be construed as such, but insofar as helping to prove that Gerry McCann carried his child's corpse through town past a large group of strangers I think it is extraordinarily weak and virtually worthless on its own. Should there have been several sightings of a man looking like Gerry walking through town at the same time carrying a child then it would have been given more credence. As it was several witnesses put Gerry in the Tapas restaurant at around the time of the sighting and that is why the PJ concluded it was not him.
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Imagine for a moment if you will, that Smith had been 60/80% he saw Brueckner. But, Brueckner maintained he was romancing in his camper at the time. I'm pretty sure we'd have to agree that, weak though it may be, it would be evidence against him.
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Mr. Smith's "Evidence" would never have seen the inside of a Court Room.
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Mr. Smith's "Evidence" would never have seen the inside of a Court Room.
True, possibly, but completely beside the point. At least we've finally come to understand what evidence is.
It's demonstrably false to say that there is no evidence whatsoever against the McCanns. Perhaps you could avoid making this claim again in future & I can get back to tending my hanging baskets. The Petunias have spread & are beginning to flower quite nicely as it happens.
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Is False Evidence actually Evidence?
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I think it would need to be proved to be false before it could be discarded as non-evidence.
For example if someone made a statement to the effect that person X was present in a certain place at a certain time, that would be evidence, unless it was proved to be untrue. ie a false alibi.
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I think it would need to be proved to be false before it could be discarded as non-evidence.
For example if someone made a statement to the effect that person X was present in a certain place at a certain time, that would be evidence, unless it was proved to be untrue. ie a false alibi.
So seven people giving someone an alibi are hardly likely to be lying.
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So seven people giving someone an alibi are hardly likely to be lying.
Unless it was a deliberate conspiracy to pervert the course of justice by providing false alibis.
I believe criminals do it all the time. Even MPs have been known to use such antics.
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Unless it was a deliberate conspiracy to pervert the course of justice by providing false alibis.
I believe criminals do it all the time. Even MPs have been known to use such antics.
and so there we have it. A deliberate conspiracy amongst the Tapas 9 is really the only way that the Smith sighting can possibly be given legitimacy. But how often are we told by sceptics on here that they don’t think there was any conspiracy? Guys, you can’t have it both ways, sorry.
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So seven people giving someone an alibi are hardly likely to be lying.
They could have been mistaken about the exact time.
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Pass the sick bowl please. This sort of repetitive nonsense requires one and another on standby. Simply incredible!
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and so there we have it. A deliberate conspiracy amongst the Tapas 9 is really the only way that the Smith sighting can possibly be given legitimacy. But how often are we told by sceptics on here that they don’t think there was any conspiracy? Guys, you can’t have it both ways, sorry.
I would have been less incredulous if Peter had remembered he wasn't dreaming it but may actually have lived it.
Some stereotypes are actually bolstered on occasion and I think this episode may well be one of them.
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Pass the sick bowl please. This sort of repetitive nonsense requires one and another on standby. Simply incredible!
It was easily avoidable. If Eleanor hadn't claimed there was no evidence at all against the McCanns I wouldn't have needed to remind her that there actually is.
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It was easily avoidable. If Eleanor hadn't claimed there was no evidence at all against the McCanns I wouldn't have needed to remind her that there actually is.
There isn't.
Mr. Smith never saw the man's face. The rest of his large family disagreed with him and nearly five months later he saw Gerry carrying a sleeping child in the only way anyone would carry a sleeping child. That is not evidence against either of The McCanns.
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There isn't.
Mr. Smith never saw the man's face. The rest of his large family disagreed with him and nearly five months later he saw Gerry carrying a sleeping child in the only way anyone would carry a sleeping child. That is not evidence against either of The McCanns.
Davel has previously conceded Smiths ID of Gerry was 'very weak evidence', VS has now had the good grace to admit it is weak evidence.
If it isn't evidence IYO, can you explain what it is Then?
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Davel has previously conceded Smiths ID of Gerry was 'very weak evidence', VS has now had the good grace to admit it is weak evidence.
If it isn't evidence IYO, can you explain what it is Then?
Speculation.
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Speculation.
It's Smiths witness testimony. Evidence, in other words. That's what witness statements are.
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If Tamsin S said she was 60-80% sure she saw Brueckner, that would be evidence against Brueckner. Wouldn't you Agree?
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If Tamsin S said she was 60-80% sure she saw Brueckner, that would be evidence against Brueckner. Wouldn't you Agree?
No I wouldn't.
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No I wouldn't.
Ok dear. It's clear you haven't fully grasped the concept of evidence.
You go back to bleating that there's no evidence whatsoever against the McCanns if it makes you feel better. It doesn't make it true though.
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Ok dear. It's clear you haven't fully grasped the concept of evidence.
You go back to bleating that there's no evidence whatsoever against the McCanns if it makes you feel better. It doesn't make it true though.
Why have The McCanns never been arrested?
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Why have The McCanns never been arrested?
Insufficient (not 'no') evidence.
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Insufficient (not 'no') evidence.
Same as Murat. Insufficient (not "no") evidence.
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Insufficient (not 'no') evidence.
The very same thing. If it isn't admissable In Court then it isn't Evidence.
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Insufficient (not 'no') evidence.
So the open window is evidence of abduction.
And lots of evidence against CB
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So the open window is evidence of abduction.
And lots of evidence against CB
Don't be silly. They don't want to know about all of that mountainous pile of old rubbish.
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So the open window is evidence of abduction.
And lots of evidence against CB
Yes, the open window was described by Kate. That's her evidence of abduction. CB confessed to Busching, that's the evidence against him, and Martin Smith believed he saw Gerry. That's his evidence against Gerry.
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There's evidence that Madeleine travelled the world after her disappearance as hundreds if not thousands of people claim (some with 100% certainty) to have seen her. Are these eye witness statements not at least as important as Martin Smith's?
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There's evidence that Madeleine travelled the world after her disappearance as hundreds if not thousands of people claim (some with 100% certainty) to have seen her. Are these eye witness statements not at least as important as Martin Smith's?
Absolutely. And probably more so. They actually know that they saw Madeleine. So wheel that lot into Court.
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Absolutely. And probably more so. They actually know that they saw Madeleine. So wheel that lot into Court.
Yes, if I was Brueckner's lawyer I'd be introducing into evidence some 8000 sightings of a living Maddie. Plenty for Wolters to get through.
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Yes, if I was Brueckner's lawyer I'd be introducing into evidence some 8000 sightings of a living Maddie. Plenty for Wolters to get through.
All Wolters has to do is to produce Evidence that Brueckner Abducted Madeleine.
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All Wolters has to do is to produce Evidence that Brueckner Abducted Madeleine.
His failure to provide such evidence to the child's parents says it all imo.
Put yourself in the McCann's shoes for a moment. If this was your child wouldn't you want to know if she is dead or alive?
Wolters refusal to provide such information to Kate and Gerry is indicative that he is has no credibility whatsoever in this case. I would go further and say that his actions are cruel and wholly unprofessional towards the parents of a long-term missing child.
His obvious attempts to procure a witness by underhand means has backfired on him imo.
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His failure to provide such evidence to the child's parents says it all imo.
Put yourself in the McCann's shoes for a moment. If this was your child wouldn't you want to know if she is dead or alive?
Wolters refusal to provide such information to Kate and Gerry is indicative that he is unreliable.
No John. Wolters has made it absoloutely clear that Madeleine is dead, that there is no hope she is alive. The McCanns just have to trust the word of the official spokesman for the BKA, but it appears they just don't.
Some members here are quite convinced by him though.
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All Wolters has to do is to produce Evidence that Brueckner Abducted Madeleine.
Should be easy enough, considering the amount of abduction evidence the three investigative forces have at their disposal. That & the murder evidence. There's no shortage of evidence against Brueckner. One could begin to wonder why he still hasn't been charged.
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His failure to provide such evidence to the child's parents says it all imo.
Put yourself in the McCann's shoes for a moment. If this was your child wouldn't you want to know if she is dead or alive?
Wolters refusal to provide such information to Kate and Gerry is indicative that he is has no credibility whatsoever in this case. I would go further and say that his actions are cruel and wholly unprofessional towards the parents of a long-term missing child.
His obvious attempts to procure a witness by underhand means has backfired on him imo.
If this is still true to this day then I agree, it is cruel. But perhaps it is done with the best intentions and not deliberately to be cruel? And perhaps he HAS now divulged what information he has to the parents. We simply don't know. I mean if I WERE in the McCanns' shoes and such definitive information had been withheld from me I would be using the media to complain loudly about such a situation. There must be a reason why they have remained reasonably silent on the matter for the last year or so.
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The very same thing. If it isn't admissable In Court then it isn't Evidence.
Some evidence awakens suspicion; like a phone call made to a phone which may have belonged to your suspect for example. That wasn't evidence then.
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Some evidence awakens suspicion; like a phone call made to a phone which may have belonged to your suspect for example. That wasn't evidence then.
I don't know if it was evidence. It isn't for me to decide. And I don't know if it will be used in Court.
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I sometimes wonder if some of you know what "Beyond Reasonable Doubt". means.
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I sometimes wonder if some of you know what "Beyond Reasonable Doubt". means.
No one has mentioned proof. Evidence, yes, but not proof.
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I don't know if it was evidence. It isn't for me to decide. And I don't know if it will be used in Court.
Evidence is gathered but not all of it is used in court. That doesn't mean it's not evidence.
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Evidence is gathered but not all of it is used in court. That doesn't mean it's not evidence.
If it isn't acceptable to The Court then it isn't Evidence.
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If it isn't acceptable to The Court then it isn't Evidence.
There are different types of evidence. You are fixating upon one type only.
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There are different types of evidence. You are fixating upon one type only.
What Type is that?
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What Type is that?
That which is used in court to prove the accusation beyond reasonable doubt. I would have thought you knew this, but maybe reading this will help you to understand.
https://www.draycottbrowne.co.uk/investigations/types-evidence
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That which is used in court to prove the accusation beyond reasonable doubt. I would have thought you knew this, but maybe reading this will help you to understand.
https://www.draycottbrowne.co.uk/investigations/types-evidence
Thank You. Good stuff is that, which entirely proves my point.
As it is, The McCanns have never appeared In Court on this matter, or even been charged. Consequently your Cite is irrelevant. There is still No Evidence against The McCanns as only A Court can decide what is Evidence and what Isn't.
As for Brueckner, the same applies. And I shall continue to support his right to Innocence Until Proven Guilty.
Just as a matter of interest, do you ever actually read the Cites you produce?
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Thank You. Good stuff is that, which entirely proves my point.
As it is, The McCanns have never appeared In Court on this matter, or even been charged. Consequently your Cite is irrelevant. There is still No Evidence against The McCanns as only A Court can decide what is Evidence and what Isn't.
As for Brueckner, the same applies. And I shall continue to support his right to Innocence Until Proven Guilty.
Just as a matter of interest, do you ever actually read the Cites you produce?
Ok, so no evidence of abduction then, if only a court can decide if there is evidence or not.
What do you base your belief Madeleine was abducted on? Bearing in mind there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever of abduction?
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Ok, so no evidence of abduction then, if only a court can decide if there is evidence or not.
What do you base your belief Madeleine was abducted on? Bearing in mind there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever of abduction?
Neither The McCanns or I have to prove anything. Do you not understand The Law at all?
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Thank You. Good stuff is that, which entirely proves my point.
As it is, The McCanns have never appeared In Court on this matter, or even been charged. Consequently your Cite is irrelevant. There is still No Evidence against The McCanns as only A Court can decide what is Evidence and what Isn't.
As for Brueckner, the same applies. And I shall continue to support his right to Innocence Until Proven Guilty.
Just as a matter of interest, do you ever actually read the Cites you produce?
Wheesht Eleanor! At least after all these years something HAS penetrated and been learned. Who would have thunk it that there is such a thing as evidence and the requirement of which is necessary to pass judgement on our fellow human beings.
Now all that is required is the acknowledgement that the "human beings" bit includes the McCanns 🙂
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Neither The McCanns or I have to prove anything. Do you not understand The Law at all?
I'm not asking you to prove anything. I asked you what you base your belief on. Can you even Read?
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No evidence Madeleine was in her bed at 9pm, as Gerry claims. No, she just wasn't there, until proven so in a court of law.
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Neither The McCanns or I have to prove anything. Do you not understand The Law at all?
Some ground has been broken with the dawning of the requirement for evidence. Even a little smattering of what evidence actually is. It's a start I suppose. But there is a waaaaaaaaaaaay to go yet.
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Thank You. Good stuff is that, which entirely proves my point.
As it is, The McCanns have never appeared In Court on this matter, or even been charged. Consequently your Cite is irrelevant. There is still No Evidence against The McCanns as only A Court can decide what is Evidence and what Isn't.
As for Brueckner, the same applies. And I shall continue to support his right to Innocence Until Proven Guilty.
Just as a matter of interest, do you ever actually read the Cites you produce?
Perhaps you should inform all the police forces wordwide who are busy collecting evidence that there's no point then.
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Some ground has been broken with the dawning of the requirement for evidence. Even a little smattering of what evidence actually is. It's a start I suppose. But there is a waaaaaaaaaaaay to go yet.
What do you base your belief in Brueckner's guilt on, by the way?
You seem certain he's going to face trial some day. What is your belief founded upon, if not evidence? Oh wait, I know, it's because Wolters said so, isn't it.The strongest form of evidence known to man.
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I'm not asking you to prove anything. I asked you what you base your belief on. Can you even Read?
Much too clever for you. I only deal in logic.
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Much too clever for you. I only deal in logic.
Ok, using logic, explain what you base your belief Madeleine was abducted upon?
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Perhaps you should inform all the police forces wordwide who are busy collecting evidence that there's no point then.
It is a puzzler isn't it. What is it the police spend their time gathering, if not evidence?
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Perhaps you should inform all the police forces wordwide who are busy collecting evidence that there's no point then.
These Police Forces collect whatever and then someone has to decide if it is relevant. I don't have a problem with that. But you obviously do.
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Ok, using logic, explain what you base your belief Madeleine was abducted upon?
Logic.
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These Police Forces collect whatever and then someone has to decide if it is relevant. I don't have a problem with that. But you obviously do.
They collect whatever. That's a good one. The bloodied knife at the murder scene is 'whatever' until a judge decides if it is evidence or not. Brilliant @)(++(*
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Logic.
So you say. But talk me through it. There's no evidence whatsoever Madeleine was in the apartment available to be abducted, so how does logic dictate she was abducted from within it?
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They collect whatever. That's a good one. The bloodied knife at the murder scene is 'whatever' until a judge decides if it is evidence or not. Brilliant @)(++(*
What a very silly comment.
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What a very silly comment.
It's of your creation. You seem to believe evidence is just whatever ,until a judge deems it is evidence.
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So you say. But talk me through it. There's no evidence whatsoever Madeleine was in the apartment available to be abducted, so how does logic dictate she was abducted from within it?
I presume that you can prove that Madeleine wasn't in The Appartment. Of course you can't. I think that you are losing the plot.
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It's of your creation. You seem to believe evidence is just whatever ,until a judge deems it is evidence.
I really can't be bothered. I shall have to go back to ignoring you.
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Thank You. Good stuff is that, which entirely proves my point.
As it is, The McCanns have never appeared In Court on this matter, or even been charged. Consequently your Cite is irrelevant. There is still No Evidence against The McCanns as only A Court can decide what is Evidence and what Isn't.
As for Brueckner, the same applies. And I shall continue to support his right to Innocence Until Proven Guilty.
Just as a matter of interest, do you ever actually read the Cites you produce?
As there is insufficient evidence to take the McCanns to court
..if they were taken they would be found not guilty....and therefore cleared.
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As there is insufficient evidence to take the McCanns to court
..if they were taken they would be found not guilty....and therefore cleared.
Has anyone ever stated what that Insufficient Evidence is?
Thought not.
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Has anyone ever stated what that Insufficient Evidence is?
Thought not.
It's not difficult. HCW seems to be heading in the same direction; not enough evidence to bring charges.
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As there is insufficient evidence to take the McCanns to court
..if they were taken they would be found not guilty....and therefore cleared.
You and I might somewhat disagree on what is Evidence, but not by very much.
However, the game has changed a bit because Sceptics as ever are losing the argument and so semantics come into play. But they aren't very good at that either and therefor continue to make fools of themselves with their downright nasty innuendos which are often bordering on Libel.
The bottom line is that The McCanns will never be implicated in the disappearance of their daughter. Because there is No Evidence, let alone Proof.
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It's not difficult. HCW seems to be heading in the same direction; not enough evidence to bring charges.
Time will tell on that one.
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It's not difficult. HCW seems to be heading in the same direction; not enough evidence to bring charges.
No he isn't....five sex offences to prosecute first..
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It's not difficult. HCW seems to be heading in the same direction; not enough evidence to bring charges.
You think. I simply don't know. That is the difference between thee and me.
I have spent many years trying to get my head around Portuguese Law, which has left me entirely unimpressed. And now I have to try to understand German Law, if I so choose of course.
It has been fascinating on occasions. But this isn't about Portugal or Germany. It's about the ages old British Class Barriers.
And I can promise you that you will never meet anyone more Working Class than I am. I just haven't allowed it to define me.
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No he isn't....five sex offences to prosecute first..
I don't think Gunit understands about Concurrent and Consecutive Sentences.
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You think. I simply don't know. That is the difference between thee and me.
I have spent many years trying to get my head around Portuguese Law, which has left me entirely unimpressed. And now I have to try to understand German Law, if I so choose of course.
It has been fascinating on occasions. But this isn't about Portugal or Germany. It's about the ages old British Class Barriers.
And I can promise you that you will never meet anyone more Working Class than I am. I just haven't allowed it to define me.
Yes. Some people think, others react, hope and believe.
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Yes. Some people think, others react, hope and believe.
This comment makes no sense. Word Games again.
There is nothing wrong with Hope. Unless you have none.
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Yes. Some people think, others react, hope and believe.
you hope and believe HCW has got it all wrong, that much I know for a fact.
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you hope and believe HCW has got it all
wrong, that much I know for a fact.
The idea that Wolters is some kind of fantasist..backed by the BKA is totally absurd.
Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court....
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As there is insufficient evidence to take the McCanns to court
..if they were taken they would be found not guilty....and therefore cleared.
Is there any wonder there was insufficient evidence.... they didn't look for any it seems.
The abduction had to be the only scenario. imo
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The idea that Wolters is some kind of fantasist..backed by the BKA is totally absurd.
Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court....
Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court....
At least he only has one ......how many did the mccs have 11 IIRC.
ps sorry Spanish internet playing up and not posting properly.
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Is there any wonder there was insufficient evidence.... they didn't look for any it seems.
The abduction had to be the only scenario. imo
Amaral and the rest of The PJ Team didn't look for Evidence? Well, that's a new one.
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Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court....
At least he only has one ......how many did the mccs have 11 IIRC.
ps sorry Spanish internet playing up and not posting properly.
Actually he has at least three now so I heard.
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Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court....
At least he only has one ......how many did the mccs have 11 IIRC.
ps sorry Spanish internet playing up and not posting properly.
Don't be silly about this. As VS says new names have appeared alongside Fulcher's. And unless you wish to call him a liar, they are not the first.
Snip
His German lawyer Friedrich Fuelscher said: “I can confirm we are using UK lawyers.”
But it remains unclear who is paying the lawyers’ fees.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner-22732762
No legal representation takes place with only one lawyer, not even if all that is being contested is a parking ticket and I think you'll find Brueckner is in deeper trouble than that.
He is well lawyered up. Why aren't you asking who is lifting his bill.
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Don't be silly about this. As VS says new names have appeared alongside Fulcher's. And unless you wish to call him a liar, they are not the first.
Snip
His German lawyer Friedrich Fuelscher said: “I can confirm we are using UK lawyers.”
But it remains unclear who is paying the lawyers’ fees.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner-22732762
No legal representation takes place with only one lawyer, not even if all that is being contested is a parking ticket and I think you'll find Brueckner is in deeper trouble than that.
He is well lawyered up. Why aren't you asking who is lifting his bill.
Surely no one is doing this for nothing. But who on earth would want to foot the bill?
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I wonder why people assume that the German state doesn't provide legal representation for those who need it?
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I wonder why people assume that the German state doesn't provide legal representation for those who need it?
Philipp Marquort (Kiel) is now quoted as being one of Brueckner's lawyers. Just how far does legal aid stretch in Germany for the man who claims to not have committed any of the crimes he's accused of?
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/justiz/id_100170884/maddie-mccann-mutmasslicher-moerder-im-hungerstreik.html
Is this another delaying tactic, straight out of Amaral's repertoire?
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Philipp Marquort (Kiel) is now quoted as being one of Brueckner's lawyers. Just how far does legal aid stretch in Germany for the man who claims to not have committed any of the crimes he's accused of?
https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/justiz/id_100170884/maddie-mccann-mutmasslicher-moerder-im-hungerstreik.html
Is this another delaying tactic, straight out of Amaral's repertoire?
I expect a lot of people in various countries claim, when accused, that they haven't committed the crimes. They still get lawyers paid for by the state if they can't afford their own, and the lawyers appointed then proceed as they think fit.
If, as CB complains, he is being treated differently in prison than others with similar convictions then that needs to be looked at.
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I expect a lot of people in various countries claim, when accused, that they haven't committed the crimes. They still get lawyers paid for by the state if they can't afford their own, and the lawyers appointed then proceed as they think fit.
If, as CB complains, he is being treated differently in prison than others with similar convictions then that needs to be looked at.
Looked at for what reasons? They can't allow him to be bumped off so they are forced to protect him. That much is obvious.
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I expect a lot of people in various countries claim, when accused, that they haven't committed the crimes. They still get lawyers paid for by the state if they can't afford their own, and the lawyers appointed then proceed as they think fit.
If, as CB complains, he is being treated differently in prison than others with similar convictions then that needs to be looked at.
He is a convicted rapist and child abuser. Most such prisoners usually seek the conditions Brueckner objects to for his own protection. Like it or not he is a high profile prisoner who it would seem seeks notoriety and who knows - maybe he has his own protection as well arranged as is his legal protection and high profile/ expensive lawyers.
I await agog for your answer to Misty's question. Germany = legal aid - HOW MUCH is he entitled to from the state??????
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Looked at for what reasons? They can't allow him to be bumped off so they are forced to protect him. That much is obvious.
Why would they think he might be 'bumped off'? Could it be the negative publicity resulting from a state prosecutor declaring him to be a murderer?
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He is a convicted rapist and child abuser. Most such prisoners usually seek the conditions Brueckner objects to for his own protection. Like it or not he is a high profile prisoner who it would seem seeks notoriety and who knows - maybe he has his own protection as well arranged as is his legal protection and high profile/ expensive lawyers.
I await agog for your answer to Misty's question. Germany = legal aid - HOW MUCH is he entitled to from the state??????
He is a high profile prisoner due to a state prosecutor pronouncing him to be a murderer, not due to the crimes he has committed and been convicted of.
If Misty has a question about the scale of legal aid in Germany perhaps she could find it out for herself. Speculating that CB is enjoying a better service than he's entitled to receive is just that; speculation by a suspicious mind.
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He is a high profile prisoner due to a state prosecutor pronouncing him to be a murderer, not due to the crimes he has committed and been convicted of.
If Misty has a question about the scale of legal aid in Germany perhaps she could find it out for herself. Speculating that CB is enjoying a better service than he's entitled to receive is just that; speculation by a suspicious mind.
Brueckner's name is in the public domain because Amaral put it there and you don't answer questions or expand discussion because you either can't or won't. Which your posting history tends to confirm.
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Why would they think he might be 'bumped off'? Could it be the negative publicity resulting from a state prosecutor declaring him to be a murderer?
Could it be the number of sex crimes he has been convicted of?
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He is a high profile prisoner due to a state prosecutor pronouncing him to be a murderer, not due to the crimes he has committed and been convicted of.
If Misty has a question about the scale of legal aid in Germany perhaps she could find it out for herself. Speculating that CB is enjoying a better service than he's entitled to receive is just that; speculation by a suspicious mind.
Says the most suspicious mind ever.
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Could it be the number of sex crimes he has been convicted of?
How many would that be ?
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you hope and believe HCW has got it all wrong, that much I know for a fact.
Has he got anything right so far?
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Time will tell on that one.
Yes, & it shouldn't be much longer now.
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The idea that Wolters is some kind of fantasist..backed by the BKA is totally absurd.
Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court....
I agree, it's an absurd idea. Has anyone other than yourself suggested it?
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The idea that Wolters is some kind of fantasist..backed by the BKA is totally absurd.
Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court....
Why is his lawyer doing everything to keep him out of court?
Isn't that precisely what a decent lawyer should do? What a silly question.
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No he isn't....five sex offences to prosecute first..
Delusional.
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It's not difficult. HCW seems to be heading in the same direction; not enough evidence to bring charges.
According to Eleanor, there is no evidence whatsoever against Brueckner, as things stand. Because a judge is yet to decide if the three expert investigative forces have gathered evidence, or just, "whatever", against him.
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Brueckner's name is in the public domain because Amaral put it there and you don't answer questions or expand discussion because you either can't or won't. Which your posting history tends to confirm.
I don't think Amaral released CB's name. Was it mentioned before the 2020 German appeal? Why should I answer Misty's (or anyone else's) questions? Especially questions based on nothing but speculation. The rate of legal aid in Germany seems to be being questioned because some people suspect or wish to infer that CB is being funded by persons unknown. If people have such suspicions it's up to them to provide some evidence to support them, it's not up to anyone else to refute something that probably is untrue and for which no evidence is offered, just inuendo.
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I don't think Amaral released CB's name. Was it mentioned before the 2020 German appeal? Why should I answer Misty's (or anyone else's) questions? Especially questions based on nothing but speculation. The rate of legal aid in Germany seems to be being questioned because some people suspect or wish to infer that CB is being funded by persons unknown. If people have such suspicions it's up to them to provide some evidence to support them, it's not up to anyone else to refute something that probably is untrue and for which no evidence is offered, just inuendo.
They tell me that Calpol has a calming effect. But only to be taken with great care - some folk think it can kill you.
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Why would they think he might be 'bumped off'? Could it be the negative publicity resulting from a state prosecutor declaring him to be a murderer?
Aren't sex offenders in prison quite vulnerable to attack from other prisoners?
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I don't think Amaral released CB's name. Was it mentioned before the 2020 German appeal? Why should I answer Misty's (or anyone else's) questions? Especially questions based on nothing but speculation. The rate of legal aid in Germany seems to be being questioned because some people suspect or wish to infer that CB is being funded by persons unknown. If people have such suspicions it's up to them to provide some evidence to support them, it's not up to anyone else to refute something that probably is untrue and for which no evidence is offered, just inuendo.
https://handbookgermany.de/en/legal-aid
Please note: If you are charged with a crime, you cannot receive legal aid. But if you do not have enough money, the state will pay for your lawyer. You cannot, however, choose a lawyer yourself-- the court will pick a lawyer for you.
A lawyer. Singular.
In October 2020, CB wrote in one of his letters that he had 2 lawyers, Schwenn & Fulscher. The name Marquort has now been added into the mix. I don't agree that it's speculation to presume that legal aid is not being used to fund all three. Having asked "a source close to Fulscher" if Brueckner has changed his lawyer, the response has been a wall of silence. Make of that what you will.
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Aren't sex offenders in prison quite vulnerable to attack from other prisoners?
Perhaps, but he didn't require any protective isolation before Wolters called him a murderer. Can you really not see the connection?
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I thought Fulscher was doing this Pro Bono for the publicity. Didn't he take over from someone else?
How many Pro Bono Lawyers are German suspects allowed to have?
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I thought Fulscher was doing this Pro Bono for the publicity. Didn't he take over from someone else?
How many Pro Bono Lawyers are German suspects allowed to have?
As long as the State isn't paying, I don't suppose there is a limit.
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Amaral and the rest of The PJ Team didn't look for Evidence? Well, that's a new one.
IIRC. Wasnt they stopped mid-flow by UK interference?
Then it seemed abduction took priority.......with no evidence of one.
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Don't be silly about this. As VS says new names have appeared alongside Fulcher's. And unless you wish to call him a liar, they are not the first.
Snip
His German lawyer Friedrich Fuelscher said: “I can confirm we are using UK lawyers.”
But it remains unclear who is paying the lawyers’ fees.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner-22732762
No legal representation takes place with only one lawyer, not even if all that is being contested is a parking ticket and I think you'll find Brueckner is in deeper trouble than that.
He is well lawyered up. Why aren't you asking who is lifting his bill.
Why aren't you asking who is lifting his bill.
Why should I be asking or caring...who is lifting the bill.
Now that's a silly question
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IIRC. Wasnt they stopped mid-flow by UK interference?
Then it seemed abduction took priority.......with no evidence of one.
All your beliefs from crackpot anti sites..
HCW has proof of abduction...you have a big shock coming
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All your beliefs from crackpot anti sites..
HCW has proof of abduction...you have a big shock coming
Yes dear, OK then. Just remember to get back to us all when Brueckner is charged. It shouldn't be much longer now.
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IIRC. Wasnt they stopped mid-flow by UK interference?
Then it seemed abduction took priority.......with no evidence of one.
There was plenty of evidence of abduction. The McCanns gave their evidence of abduction, & Martin Smith gave his.
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All your beliefs from crackpot anti sites..
HCW has proof of abduction...you have a big shock coming
what sites are they then..........I only go on this one.
Big shock coming.......dream on D.
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what sites are they then..........I only go on this one.
Big shock coming.......dream on D.
Wolters says, kizzy.
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I have long thought that there was a possibility of Brueckner only being charge with Abduction.
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what sites are they then..........I only go on this one.
Big shock coming.......dream on D.
According to the PJ the main evidence against the Mccanns was the dog alerts ... provided by UK police,...so how could theybbe protecting them
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I have long thought that there was a possibility of Brueckner only being charge with Abduction.
Yes, it shouldn't be too difficult to prove, given that Maddie was most definitely abducted, so she was. Really, she was.
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He must have been told after the abduction, but before he ever bothered ringing the police & telling them about the paedophile gangs.
Strange that he omitted such an important detail in his witness statement also.
Gerry found out after the abduction..
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Gerry found out after the abduction..
What abduction?
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According to the PJ the main evidence against the Mccanns was the dog alerts ... provided by UK police,...so how could theybbe protecting them
Did I say they were protecting them,
They started from the abduction theory mid-flow.with no beginning and certainly no end.
Mind you ..Imagine the embarrassment if after all this time they got it wrong to not start from the beginning.
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Did I say they were protecting them,
They started from the abduction theory mid-flow.with no beginning and certainly no end.
Mind you ..Imagine the embarrassment if after all this time they got it wrong to not start from the beginning.
I agree that some are going to look stupid...a
Amaral..grime and many more.
They no doubt will make up excuses.. Amaral already claims DM wasn't raped..no doubt you agree with him
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I agree that some are going to look stupid...a
Amaral..grime and many more.
They no doubt will make up excuses.. Amaral already claims DM wasn't raped..no doubt you agree with him
Do you think people look stupid when they get things wrong? I think it can happen to anyone imo.
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Do you think people look stupid when they get things wrong? I think it can happen to anyone imo.
Depends.... amaral...grime...mark s...pat brown...are professionals....can't you see that.
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Do you think people look stupid when they get things wrong? I think it can happen to anyone imo.
This depends on what stupid people have to say, especially so called Professionals. But No, I don't think these people care. They just move on to their next disaster. Or dream up an alternative explanation.
You can't cure Stupid.
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Depends.... amaral...grime...mark s...pat brown...are professionals....can't you see that.
I can see that you hope those people will all be shown to be wrong in some way. What I don't understand is why you care so much.
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I can see that you hope those people will all be shown to be wrong in some way. What I don't understand is why you care so much.
You're wrong if you think I care so much...but I do care about justice...I think Maddies best chance of justice is with the germans
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I agree that some are going to look stupid...a
Amaral..grime and many more.
They no doubt will make up excuses.. Amaral already claims DM wasn't raped..no doubt you agree with him
Amaral already claims DM wasn't raped..no doubt you agree with him
You see this is why you get things wrong
In your posts, you assume or speculate things that are not true.
You take things far too personally...think you should refrain from calling everyone idiots etc. although.
We have all heard the adage that “The best defense is a good offense”. The thought is that by being proactive rather than passive, you will get a strategic advantage over your opponent by forcing your opponent to be on the defense.
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Amaral already claims DM wasn't raped..no doubt you agree with him
You see this is why you get things wrong
In your posts, you assume or speculate things that are not true.
You take things far too personally...think you should refrain from calling everyone idiots etc. although.
We have all heard the adage that “The best defense is a good offense”. The thought is that by being proactive rather than passive, you will get a strategic advantage over your opponent by forcing your opponent to be on the defense.
Your post doesn't make much sense..amaral claims DM wasn't raped...many sceptics agree with him.. they are wrong
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You're wrong if you think I care so much...but I do care about justice...I think Maddies best chance of justice is with the germans
So forget the past and you can happily wait for the Germans to deliver justice for MM at last!
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So forget the past and you can happily wait for the Germans to deliver justice for MM at last!
Not sure what you are trying to say.
I see several professionals who clearly don't understand ....and then the gullible following them.
Perlins offer re the DNA is one. His analysis wouldn't help in the slightest. He's actually has a case on his website supporting his work that was thrown out on appeal...re touch DNA. But according to so called anti experts he could help solve the case..he couldn't..it's laughable
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You're wrong if you think I care so much...but I do care about justice...I think Maddies best chance of justice is with the germans
The McCanns clearly don't. In their recent message they said they are still waiting for Madeleine & are never giving up. Entirely at odds with Wolters, who has the full backing of the BKA & the concrete murder evidence. You must think they are barking mad.
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So forget the past and you can happily wait for the Germans to deliver justice for MM at last!
Yes, & it shouldn't be much longer now! But no update this year on the 3rd anniversary of the coming of the concrete evidence. Where is Wolters? Maybe he's been abducted.
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Your post doesn't make much sense..amaral claims DM wasn't raped...many sceptics agree with him.. they are wrong
No, it wouldn't make much sense to you....your posts are tunnel vision.
Your posts have an obsession with trying to make posters feel less important than yourself.
What have we learned in 16 years nothing [apart from the prime suspects for abduction].. results in zero.
Maddie disappeared 16 years a go...no one can prove what happened or who was responsible it seems.
IMO the only way of solving this is for fresh eyes to look at it from the begining....not half way through.
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No, it wouldn't make much sense to you....your posts are tunnel vision.
Your posts have an obsession with trying to make posters feel less important than yourself.
What have we learned in 16 years nothing [apart from the prime suspects for abduction].. results in zero.
Maddie disappeared 16 years a go...no one can prove what happened or who was responsible it seems.
IMO the only way of solving this is for fresh eyes to look at it from the begining....not half way through.
The Met offered fresh eyes, so did the Germans, then we've had various other pairs of fresh eyes - MWT, Summers and Swann, Panorama etc etc etc and they all seem to have come to a conclusion which you don't like or agree with, this must be frighfully galling for you and your compatriots but one day you will have to come to accept it.
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The Met offered fresh eyes, so did the Germans, then we've had various other pairs of fresh eyes - MWT, Summers and Swann, Panorama etc etc etc and they all seem to have come to a conclusion which you don't like or agree with, this must be frighfully galling for you and your compatriots but one day you will have to come to accept it.
You included MWT. But he believes Maddie woke & wandered. Meaning Kate must have lied about the open window.
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No, it wouldn't make much sense to you....your posts are tunnel vision.
Your posts have an obsession with trying to make posters feel less important than yourself.
What have we learned in 16 years nothing [apart from the prime suspects for abduction].. results in zero.
Maddie disappeared 16 years a go...no one can prove what happened or who was responsible it seems.
IMO the only way of solving this is for fresh eyes to look at it from the begining....not half way through.
In
The Germans say they do know and have evidence to show Maddie was murdered.
Amaral and those who believe Maddie died in the apartment think they know what happened but we know they don't have the evidence to prove it...they think they do...but they are wrong
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In
The Germans say they do know and have evidence to show Maddie was murdered.
Amaral and those who believe Maddie died in the apartment think they know what happened but we know they don't have the evidence to prove it...they think they do...but they are wrong
But what if Wolters proves Maddie was murdered in the apartment?
That would mean Maddie would have died in the apartment. So Amaral would have been right.
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In
The Germans say they do know and have evidence to show Maddie was murdered.
Amaral and those who believe Maddie died in the apartment think they know what happened but we know they don't have the evidence to prove it...they think they do...but they are wrong
Amaral has in fact made the whole thing so much worse. What I want to know is Why.
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But what if Wolters proves Maddie was murdered in the apartment?
That would mean Maddie would have died in the apartment. So Amaral would have been right.
An interesting idea.
It would also mean the McCann was completely wrong over Madeleine not coming to any harm.
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An interesting idea.
It would also mean the McCann was completely wrong over Madeleine not coming to any harm.
Oh dear, more twisting of the facts. The McCanns have never EVER stated that Madeleine has come to no harm, only that there is no evidence that she has come to harm. Perhaps the difference is too subtle for you to grasp, or perhaps it simply suits you to propagandise to fit your agenda.
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Also how does Madeleine being murdered by a paedophile in the apartment vindicate Amaral and his batty thesis? *%87
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Also how does Madeleine being murdered by a paedophile in the apartment vindicate Amaral and his batty thesis? *%87
It's simple enough. Maddie gets murdered in the apartment, so, dies in the apartment & that means Amaral was right that she was dead. Ok, he got the perpetrator wrong, but he was still right about her being dead in the apartment. Can't win them all. But this is all libellous supposition anyway & I may have to report myself, because Brueckner MUST be presumed innocent, that is The Law, & that means he just didn't do it.
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In
The Germans say they do know and have evidence to show Maddie was murdered.
Amaral and those who believe Maddie died in the apartment think they know what happened but we know they don't have the evidence to prove it...they think they do...but they are wrong
Amaral and those who believe Maddie died in the apartment think they know what happened
Why is GA such a thorn in your side...why do your posts continually bring him up. [and others]
It seems he is a massive threat to your beliefs ....why.
You think HCW has it all in hand ....so why do you feel you have to constantly slag off GA.
You say GA hasn't the evidence to prove it ...but no one has proved him wrong.
Looks like the same thing is going to happen with your man...........as was predicted from day one.
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Amaral and those who believe Maddie died in the apartment think they know what happened
Why is GA such a thorn in your side...why do your posts continually bring him up. [and others]
It seems he is a massive threat to your beliefs ....why.
You think HCW has it all in hand ....so why do you feel you have to constantly slag off GA.
You say GA hasn't the evidence to prove it ...but no one has proved him wrong.
Looks like the same thing is going to happen with your man...........as was predicted from day one.
Why do you and others constantly feel the need to slag off HCW? It seems he is a massive threat to your beliefs… has he been proved wrong?
Amaral has been proven to be a liar, HCW has not. There’s one difference for you.
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Why do you and others constantly feel the need to slag off HCW? It seems he is a massive threat to your beliefs… has he been proved wrong?
Amaral has been proven to be a liar, HCW has not. There’s one difference for you.
Amaral has been proven to be a liar, HCW has not.
Time will tell on that one.
Think you are a bit naive to think coppers/prosecutors don't lie....thought you had more about you than that.
What prompts it
It’s fairly common for officers to lie in police reports, said Philip Stinson, a criminologist and professor of criminal justice at Bowling Green State University.
Stinson has tracked arrest cases of nonfederal sworn law enforcement officers who have been charged with at least one crime from 2005 to 2014. His research shows that out of more than 10,000 officer arrest cases, about 6.3% involved false reports or statements. About a quarter of those cases involving false reports or statements also involved alleged acts of police violence – and he said the problem is probably more common than the data suggests.
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Amaral and those who believe Maddie died in the apartment think they know what happened
Why is GA such a thorn in your side...why do your posts continually bring him up. [and others]
It seems he is a massive threat to your beliefs ....why.
You think HCW has it all in hand ....so why do you feel you have to constantly slag off GA.
You say GA hasn't the evidence to prove it ...but no one has proved him wrong.
Looks like the same thing is going to happen with your man...........as was predicted from day one.
It is proven that the evidence Amaral used to support his thesis is wrong...
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It is proven that the evidence Amaral used to support his thesis is wrong...
Well that's not entirely true. The ECHR have recently confirmed that the dog alerted to cadaver odour. It's a proven fact now.
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Well that's not entirely true. The ECHR have recently confirmed that the dog alerted to cadaver odour. It's a proven fact now.
No it isn't.
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No it isn't.
Because you don't believe it?
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Because you don't believe it?
Show me a Cite where The ECHR confirms that the Dogs alerted to Cadaver Odour.
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Because you don't believe it?
I think Grime should be ashamed of himself.
In Jersey an official enquiry found he took the investigation in the wrong direction so it's no stretch of the imagination to think the same thing happened in Luz
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Amaral has been proven to be a liar, HCW has not.
Time will tell on that one.
Think you are a bit naive to think coppers/prosecutors don't lie....thought you had more about you than that.
What prompts it
It’s fairly common for officers to lie in police reports, said Philip Stinson, a criminologist and professor of criminal justice at Bowling Green State University.
Stinson has tracked arrest cases of nonfederal sworn law enforcement officers who have been charged with at least one crime from 2005 to 2014. His research shows that out of more than 10,000 officer arrest cases, about 6.3% involved false reports or statements. About a quarter of those cases involving false reports or statements also involved alleged acts of police violence – and he said the problem is probably more common than the data suggests.
It’s nothing to do with naivity, it’s a factual statement.
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Because you don't believe it?
Eleanor is correct to say that the dog alerts are not proven to have been to cadaver, it’s got nothing to do with belief (though presumably you and the troll believe that they did and that it has been proven but only because you both live in an alternative reality @)(++(* )
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No Cite from The ECHR then.
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I don't remember if the ECHR even mentioned or considered dogs, but one thing is certain, the dogs sure do cause angst for supporters.
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I don't remember if the ECHR even mentioned or considered dogs, but one thing is certain, the dogs sure do cause angst for supporters.
You are deluded. There is no angst, only incredulity that sceptics still place any faith in the dog alerts.
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You are deluded. There is no angst, only incredulity that sceptics still place any faith in the dog alerts.
Any who subscribe to the notion that Calpol is a sedative will believe anything.
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You are deluded. There is no angst, only incredulity that sceptics still place any faith in the dog alerts.
It's quite strange considering the herculean efforts McCann supporters have made trying to convince the world that cadaver dogs, particularly those trained and used by Martin Grime, are unreliable.
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It's quite strange considering the herculean efforts McCann supporters have made trying to convince the world that cadaver dogs, particularly those trained and used by Martin Grime, are unreliable.
What? More strange than the even more hurculean efforts made by sceptics to convince the world that the McCanns dunnit? Get a grip. You actually believe that the dog alerts were proven to be to cadaver don’t you?
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It's quite strange considering the herculean efforts McCann supporters have made trying to convince the world that cadaver dogs, particularly those trained and used by Martin Grime, are unreliable.
There was no great effort required. Without Forensics there is nothing.
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It's quite strange considering the herculean efforts McCann supporters have made trying to convince the world that cadaver dogs, particularly those trained and used by Martin Grime, are unreliable.
Doesn't take any effort...grime has admitted his cadaver dogs are unreliable but you can't accept the truth
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What's more astonishing is the way some have been taken in by Grime try
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You only have to comment and there's an astonishing rush by the supporters to repeat their points of view. They are sooo obsessed by the subject, poor things.
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You only have to comment and there's an astonishing rush by the supporters to repeat their points of view. They are sooo obsessed by the subject, poor things.
Lol...you don't have a reply...grime has admitted his cadaver dogs were unreliable
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Meanwhile, The Sceptics continue to repeat their libellous comments.
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You only have to comment and there's an astonishing rush by the supporters to repeat their points of view. They are sooo obsessed by the subject, poor things.
Provocative, goading, ill-becoming of a moderator, tsk. You also made an unsubstantiated claim yesterday that the ECHR stated that the dogs alerted to cadaver as a proven fact, care to provide a cite?
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Provocative, goading, ill-becoming of a moderator, tsk. You also made an unsubstantiated claim yesterday that the ECHR stated that the dogs alerted to cadaver as a proven fact, care to provide a cite?
Once again you choose to accuse me of saying something I never said, so no cite will be forthcoming from me.
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Meanwhile, The Sceptics continue to repeat their libellous comments.
It isn't libellous to say you believe the McCanns guilty, because there is evidence against them. Martin Smith believed he saw Gerry, carrying his inert daughter away from the scene. That is evidence. From that evidence one is at liberty to deduce that Madeleine was dead & the McCanns staged an abduction. No need for dogs.
Anyway, how's the case against the abductor going? Having much luck are they? No? Well, I may have just explained the reason for that.
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Lol...you don't have a reply...grime has admitted his cadaver dogs were unreliable
That may be so. But how can we be certain Maddie didn't die in the apartment?
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No it isn't.
I know. But there's nothing to talk about. Not much happening in the case against the murderer. But maybe next year.
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Why do you and others constantly feel the need to slag off HCW? It seems he is a massive threat to your beliefs… has he been proved wrong?
Amaral has been proven to be a liar, HCW has not. There’s one difference for you.
Amaral has been proven to be a liar, HCW has not.
Well, we all know what HCW truth is ......but is it the truth.
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It is proven that the evidence Amaral used to support his thesis is wrong...
Well, you are still waiting to see what HCW evidence is...or if he has any at all.
GA was there from day one.....it seems HCW is relying on hearsay.
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Lol...you don't have a reply...grime has admitted his cadaver dogs were unreliable
Wasnt it gmcc who said the dogs were unreliable?
Still, the fact remains it seems the dogs did not react to anything or anyone else possessions apartment/car etc.
11:13am Mar 18, 2019
According to a Portuguese police report, Eddie and Keela alerted a total of 13 times, including inside the McCann holiday apartment; a rental car they had hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared; and some personal items belonging to the family.
In later television interviews, Gerry McCann questioned the reliability of cadaver dogs. The McCanns have strenuously denied any involvement in the disappearance of their daughter.
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Amaral has been proven to be a liar, HCW has not.
Well, we all know what HCW truth is ......but is it the truth.
It isn't the truth, because Brueckner MUST be presumed innocent, as innocent as the McCanns are, &, if the presumption of innocence means the McCanns just didn't do it, then the same applies to Brueckner. Therefore Wolters is a liar.
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Wasnt it gmcc who said the dogs were unreliable?
Still, the fact remains it seems the dogs did not react to anything or anyone else possessions apartment/car etc.
11:13am Mar 18, 2019
According to a Portuguese police report, Eddie and Keela alerted a total of 13 times, including inside the McCann holiday apartment; a rental car they had hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared; and some personal items belonging to the family.
In later television interviews, Gerry McCann questioned the reliability of cadaver dogs. The McCanns have strenuously denied any involvement in the disappearance of their daughter.
Martin Grime has admitted neither of his cadaver dogs was reliable...it's in his white paper. ..meaning GM was correct
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Once again you choose to accuse me of saying something I never said, so no cite will be forthcoming from me.
My apologies, it was the troll - easy to get you two mixed up especially considering you appeared to be supporting his lie in your next post.
Troll: Well that's not entirely true. The ECHR have recently confirmed that the dog alerted to cadaver odour. It's a proven fact now.
Eleanor: No it isn't.
G-Unit: because you don't believe it?
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My apologies, it was the troll - easy to get you two mixed up especially considering you appeared to be supporting his lie in your next post.
Troll: Well that's not entirely true. The ECHR have recently confirmed that the dog alerted to cadaver odour. It's a proven fact now.
Eleanor: No it isn't.
G-Unit: because you don't believe it?
They never learn, do they. Thank God they aren't my side.
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They never learn, do they. Thank God they aren't my side.
An honest debater would have agreed with you when you replied to the troll with "no it isn't", not made out that it was a matter of belief instead of a matter of fact.
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An honest debater would have agreed with you when you replied to the troll with "no it isn't", not made out that it was a matter of belief instead of a matter of fact.
What else can anyone conclude when faced with such off the cuff comments? No justification or explanation is offered for making it, so it can't be assumed that there's a reasonable basis for the comment.
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What else can anyone conclude when faced with such off the cuff comments? No justification or explanation is offered for making it, so it can't be assumed that there's a reasonable basis for the comment.
No explanation was necessary. Everyone knows that it isn't true. Even Spammybot himself.
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What else can anyone conclude when faced with such off the cuff comments? No justification or explanation is offered for making it, so it can't be assumed that there's a reasonable basis for the comment.
I conclude from your comments that you believe that Eleanor is wrong when she contradicted the troll's claim that the ECHR stated the dogs alerted to cadaver as a proven fact. It's not possible to prove a negative but it is possible to prove a claim so if you believe the troll's claim to be correct then prove it.
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No explanation was necessary. Everyone knows that it isn't true. Even Spammybot himself.
Not G-Unit though, she would prefer to dispute it, it would seem.
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I conclude from your comments that you believe that Eleanor is wrong when she contradicted the troll's claim that the ECHR stated the dogs alerted to cadaver as a proven fact. It's not possible to prove a negative but it is possible to prove a claim so if you believe the troll's claim to be correct then prove it.
If someone thinks the ECHR judges did not state that it was a proven fact that the dogs alerted to cadaver odour there are options. A link to the judgement, highlighting what they did say, and so on. Throwaway comments tell us nothing except what that person believes.
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If someone thinks the ECHR judges did not state that it was a proven fact that the dogs alerted to cadaver odour there are options. A link to the judgement, highlighting what they did say, and so on. Throwaway comments tell us nothing except what that person believes.
The onus is on the person who claimed they did..you should know that. How can you provide a link to something that doesn't exist..think about it
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The onus is on the person who claimed they did..you should know that. How can you provide a link to something that doesn't exist..think about it
My point precisely. But Gunit prefers to try to make me look stupid by changing The Rules to suit herself.
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It isn't libellous to say you believe the McCanns guilty, because there is evidence against them. Martin Smith believed he saw Gerry, carrying his inert daughter away from the scene. That is evidence. From that evidence one is at liberty to deduce that Madeleine was dead & the McCanns staged an abduction. No need for dogs.
Anyway, how's the case against the abductor going? Having much luck are they? No? Well, I may have just explained the reason for that.
He reluctantly said around four months later, based on Gerry McCann walking down aeroplane landing steps that he thought it was Gerry based purely on a walk. The street he said he thought it could be him was not at a downward length. Their was no pressing of features, but foreign person. No nothing the Irishman based it purely on a walk and nothing else lol. He then said his daughter called the next morning to explain what happened. He must of saw Gerry multiple times on TV. But one night based on walking down an aircraft carrier. Come on.
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He reluctantly said around four months later, based on Gerry McCann walking down aeroplane landing steps that he thought it was Gerry based purely on a walk. The street he said he thought it could be him was not at a downward length. Their was no pressing of features, but foreign person. No nothing the Irishman based it purely on a walk and nothing else lol. He then said his daughter called the next morning to explain what happened. He must of saw Gerry multiple times on TV. But one night based on walking down an aircraft carrier. Come on.
Well when, in two days time, the police find nothing but discarded coke cans & shopping trollies in the reservoir, & nothing at all connected to Madeleine's disappearance, I may have just explained the reason for that.
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Well when, in two days time, the police find nothing but discarded coke cans & shopping trollies in the reservoir, & nothing at all connected to Madeleine's disappearance, I may have just explained the reason for that.
.
But not justifying Marty boy Smith's extravagant statement.
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I wonder why the completely useless PJ never thought to search the local tip seeing as how it's so blatantly obvious that Martin Smith saw Gerry taking his daughter's body to put in a bin? Hmm....perhaps the total sum of their brain power simply doesn't add up to the one magnificent troll brain we have on here currently advising us what happened.
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I wonder why the completely useless PJ never thought to search the local tip seeing as how it's so blatantly obvious that Martin Smith saw Gerry taking his daughter's body to put in a bin? Hmm....perhaps the total sum of their brain power simply doesn't add up to the one magnificent troll brain we have on here currently advising us what happened.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how my theory is logistically impossible. I'm told it is but no one has ever elaborated further.
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Of course he does. Remember this is the man who also believed McCann would win the ECHR case
The man who is never wrong - in his own mind
Do you really want to go off topic...I didn't realise what a poor lawyer the McCanns had
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Do you really want to go off topic...I didn't realise what a poor lawyer the McCanns had
Is it off topic? Quite a few people learned that their opinions about Amaral's book were wrong.
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Is it off topic? Quite a few people learned that their opinions about Amaral's book were wrong.
My opinion hasn't changed...the McCanns had poor legal advice. No one has been able to explain why the alerts were considered proven facts. You think you have but you havent
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From today’s Times. Seems the residents of PdL have learned to develop some compassion in the last 16 years
Praia da Luz has ‘moved on’ from Madeleine McCann disappearance
May 04 2023, 6.00pm
Like the golden beach that is swept of debris twice a day by the Atlantic, the resort’s walls and notice boards have been cleansed of posters appealing for information about Madeleine McCann and the yellow ribbons promoting the search for the missing British girl.
Christian Wolters, a prosecutor in the German investigation into Christian Brueckner, said to “not expect anything spectacular” as a result of the reservoir searches.
The open anger against the McCann family for associating the resort with child abduction is softening to pity as its tourism industry booms. Teretinha Oliveriea, 51, who runs a jewellers in the heart of Praia da Luz, put her head in her hands in exasperation and groaned when “Madeleine” was mentioned. “We are trying to forget, not talking about her again,” she said. “I have a daughter of the same age as Madeleine, she will be 20 in August, so it was a period that was very sad. I saw everything that happened, the hundreds of journalists, the [McCann] family, the police. We don’t want that again. I don’t know what happened, this is a safe place. We are very sorry for her parents but we have moved on.”
At the Ocean Club where the McCanns were staying in May 2007 the only memorial is a metal grill over the window of the bedroom from where Madeleine was abducted. The bougainvillea is again in full bloom as it was the night she disappeared days before her fourth birthday.
Madeleine was three when she went missing in 2007
Madeleine was three when she went missing in 2007
PA
The club’s tennis courts where Madeleine played have become padel courts for the squash-tennis hybrid sport, signifying changes in the town’s population.
In 2007 about 80 per cent of the expats were British. Their numbers have waned, partly because of Brexit reducing the amount of time they can live in Portugal, but also because of increasing numbers from Germany, France, the Netherlands and Scandinavia lured by generous tax breaks.
Annettee Stupp, 47, originally from Essen in western Germany, sells jewellery from a little stall on the promenade. She lives a “van life” moving around in the Algarve in a camper van. “I don’t know about Madeleine,” she said. “No one has told me. It seems like a very safe area.”
Many of the new residents and visitors have no knowledge of the abduction or the prime suspect, Brueckner, 45. The German convicted sex-offender was a “van lifer” who also lived in a farmhouse on the outskirts of Praia da Luz when Madeleine disappeared.
The posters from the search campaign that covered notice boards back in 2008 are gone
The posters from the search campaign that covered notice boards back in 2008 are gone
CHRIS RADBURN/PA
A few yards from Stupp’s stall is the doorway to the dingy late-night bar known as Carlos’s. It became the headquarters for the hundreds of writers, international television correspondents, camera crews, producers and photographers from across the world. They gathered there each evening to discuss theories about the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance having returned reports of sightings of the missing girl and possible suspects across Portugal, Spain and into north Africa. Carlos’s transformation into a smart restaurant called Boaty’s with a roof terrace overlooking the beach is a symbol of the economic transformation for the resort.
The fall in tourism numbers following Madeleine’s disappearance was followed by the international financial crisis which devastated the Portuguese economy and then the disastrous impact of Covid-19 restrictions. There was intense antagonism towards the McCanns for their perceived neglect in preventing their daughter’s abduction. As property prices boom, hotel reservations fill up and the bars and restaurants prepare for a busy summer, the mood is more compassionate.
Three days after Madeleine disappeared, her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, both now 54, of Rothley, Leicestershire, left their holiday apartment to attend a Mother’s Day service at the resort’s 16th-century church. The building became a sanctuary for the couple, particularly Kate who regularly attended services.
Chris Wells, the church warden, said: “We certainly keep Madeleine and her parents in our prayers. But we don’t want to be the church that is associated with Madeleine McCann. Very few of the congregation were here at the time. The village was very badly hit by events and there was a very anti-McCann feeling. Now the German is a suspect, I think most people accept that the parents were not involved.”
Madeleine’s parents Gerry and Kate McCann
Madeleine’s parents Gerry and Kate McCann
PAUL ROGERS FOR THE TIMES
Andy Syers, 66, a retired teacher from Wetherby, West Yorkshire, lives in Praia da Luz for parts of the year. Three of her grandchildren are visiting this week, with the eldest arriving during the school half term next week.
“We have been coming here for 27 years. It’s an idyllic place, and safe,” she said. “Sometimes we talk about [Madeleine], just the puzzle and the terrible tragedy. Everyone feels for the parents because it is the worst thing to have happened to your children.”
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Is it off topic? Quite a few people learned that their opinions about Amaral's book were wrong.
My opinion of Amaral’s book is not wrong thanks. It’s full of half-truths, inaccuracies and conjecture and makes unevidenced claims about what happened to Madeleine McCann which if the case had been tried in the UK would almost certainly have been found to be defamatory.
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From today’s Times. Seems the residents of PdL have learned to develop some compassion in the last 16 years
Praia da Luz has ‘moved on’ from Madeleine McCann disappearance
May 04 2023, 6.00pm
Like the golden beach that is swept of debris twice a day by the Atlantic, the resort’s walls and notice boards have been cleansed of posters appealing for information about Madeleine McCann and the yellow ribbons promoting the search for the missing British girl.
Christian Wolters, a prosecutor in the German investigation into Christian Brueckner, said to “not expect anything spectacular” as a result of the reservoir searches.
The open anger against the McCann family for associating the resort with child abduction is softening to pity as its tourism industry booms. Teretinha Oliveriea, 51, who runs a jewellers in the heart of Praia da Luz, put her head in her hands in exasperation and groaned when “Madeleine” was mentioned. “We are trying to forget, not talking about her again,” she said. “I have a daughter of the same age as Madeleine, she will be 20 in August, so it was a period that was very sad. I saw everything that happened, the hundreds of journalists, the [McCann] family, the police. We don’t want that again. I don’t know what happened, this is a safe place. We are very sorry for her parents but we have moved on.”
At the Ocean Club where the McCanns were staying in May 2007 the only memorial is a metal grill over the window of the bedroom from where Madeleine was abducted. The bougainvillea is again in full bloom as it was the night she disappeared days before her fourth birthday.
Madeleine was three when she went missing in 2007
Madeleine was three when she went missing in 2007
PA
The club’s tennis courts where Madeleine played have become padel courts for the squash-tennis hybrid sport, signifying changes in the town’s population.
In 2007 about 80 per cent of the expats were British. Their numbers have waned, partly because of Brexit reducing the amount of time they can live in Portugal, but also because of increasing numbers from Germany, France, the Netherlands and Scandinavia lured by generous tax breaks.
Annettee Stupp, 47, originally from Essen in western Germany, sells jewellery from a little stall on the promenade. She lives a “van life” moving around in the Algarve in a camper van. “I don’t know about Madeleine,” she said. “No one has told me. It seems like a very safe area.”
Many of the new residents and visitors have no knowledge of the abduction or the prime suspect, Brueckner, 45. The German convicted sex-offender was a “van lifer” who also lived in a farmhouse on the outskirts of Praia da Luz when Madeleine disappeared.
The posters from the search campaign that covered notice boards back in 2008 are gone
The posters from the search campaign that covered notice boards back in 2008 are gone
CHRIS RADBURN/PA
A few yards from Stupp’s stall is the doorway to the dingy late-night bar known as Carlos’s. It became the headquarters for the hundreds of writers, international television correspondents, camera crews, producers and photographers from across the world. They gathered there each evening to discuss theories about the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance having returned reports of sightings of the missing girl and possible suspects across Portugal, Spain and into north Africa. Carlos’s transformation into a smart restaurant called Boaty’s with a roof terrace overlooking the beach is a symbol of the economic transformation for the resort.
The fall in tourism numbers following Madeleine’s disappearance was followed by the international financial crisis which devastated the Portuguese economy and then the disastrous impact of Covid-19 restrictions. There was intense antagonism towards the McCanns for their perceived neglect in preventing their daughter’s abduction. As property prices boom, hotel reservations fill up and the bars and restaurants prepare for a busy summer, the mood is more compassionate.
Three days after Madeleine disappeared, her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, both now 54, of Rothley, Leicestershire, left their holiday apartment to attend a Mother’s Day service at the resort’s 16th-century church. The building became a sanctuary for the couple, particularly Kate who regularly attended services.
Chris Wells, the church warden, said: “We certainly keep Madeleine and her parents in our prayers. But we don’t want to be the church that is associated with Madeleine McCann. Very few of the congregation were here at the time. The village was very badly hit by events and there was a very anti-McCann feeling. Now the German is a suspect, I think most people accept that the parents were not involved.”
Madeleine’s parents Gerry and Kate McCann
Madeleine’s parents Gerry and Kate McCann
PAUL ROGERS FOR THE TIMES
Andy Syers, 66, a retired teacher from Wetherby, West Yorkshire, lives in Praia da Luz for parts of the year. Three of her grandchildren are visiting this week, with the eldest arriving during the school half term next week.
“We have been coming here for 27 years. It’s an idyllic place, and safe,” she said. “Sometimes we talk about [Madeleine], just the puzzle and the terrible tragedy. Everyone feels for the parents because it is the worst thing to have happened to your children.”
“We have been coming here for 27 years. It’s an idyllic place, and safe,
I believe that to be the reason kmcc left twins in apartment to go to the tapas
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“We have been coming here for 27 years. It’s an idyllic place, and safe,
I believe that to be the reason kmcc left twins in apartment to go to the tapas
Exactly. Because it seemed like a safe place. Terrible crimes can happen in apparently safe places, but sometimes people get lulled into a false sense of security. Whoever says they haven’t is lying imo.
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Exactly. Because it seemed like a safe place. Terrible crimes can happen in apparently safe places, but sometimes people get lulled into a false sense of security. Whoever says they haven’t is lying imo.
get lulled into a false sense of security.
Yes, probably the reason they let the twins go back to the creche the next day.
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get lulled into a false sense of security.
Yes, probably the reason they let the twins go back to the creche the next day.
Are you suggesting the creche was not secure?
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get lulled into a false sense of security.
Yes, probably the reason they let the twins go back to the creche the next day.
I think one of the reasons for considering the twins might have had a more settled day could have been that they were attending interviews with the police in an effort to help find their daughter.
Takes all sorts, you seem to think that bringing children to hang around in the police station was a good choice. Many others would disagree and consider the stability of being entertained along with their peers V the doom and gloom of a police station with no facilities for children would be the better choice in the circumstances.
Me - I tend to go with the trained staff, their peer group and the creche facilities as the preferable option.
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My opinion of Amaral’s book is not wrong thanks. It’s full of half-truths, inaccuracies and conjecture and makes unevidenced claims about what happened to Madeleine McCann which if the case had been tried in the UK would almost certainly have been found to be defamatory.
Your opinion is up to you, it's your choice, and it doesn't matter at all. What matters are legal opinions and they are not the same as yours.
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Your opinion is up to you, it's your choice, and it doesn't matter at all. What matters are legal opinions and they are not the same as yours.
Some of them are the same, especially UK.
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Your opinion is up to you, it's your choice, and it doesn't matter at all. What matters are legal opinions and they are not the same as yours.
All except the legal conclusions and decision arrived at by the Portuguese Attorney General 2008. That really doesn't matter because some folk have a different OPINION.
Do please make the attempt to be consistent with your contradictory pontifications.
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Your opinion is up to you, it's your choice, and it doesn't matter at all. What matters are legal opinions and they are not the same as yours.
Perhaps you could provide a cite from a legal opinion you approve of which contradicts any of my opinions, thanks in advance. Also, are you of the view that ALL legal opinions are ALWAYS right? How dare you sit in judgement of my opinions of Amaral's book - you cannot prove my opinion is wrong, it is only your opinion that it is (though how you came to that decision is beyond me, frankly).
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I think one of the reasons for considering the twins might have had a more settled day could have been that they were attending interviews with the police in an effort to help find their daughter.
Takes all sorts, you seem to think that bringing children to hang around in the police station was a good choice. Many others would disagree and consider the stability of being entertained along with their peers V the doom and gloom of a police station with no facilities for children would be the better choice in the circumstances.
Me - I tend to go with the trained staff, their peer group and the creche facilities as the preferable option.
It was literally hours after the so-called abduction.
At that time it could have been anyone in that complex.
Your reasoning seems a bit weak.....unless of course, the mccs knew it was safe to leave them there.
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It was literally hours after the so-called abduction.
At that time it could have been anyone in that complex.
Your reasoning seems a bit weak.....unless of course, the mccs knew it was safe to leave them there.
Do forgive me for for pointing out how ridiculous your responding post is. It is bang ON Topic though since it illustrates you have learned exactly ZERO in sixteen years.
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It was literally hours after the so-called abduction.
At that time it could have been anyone in that complex.
Your reasoning seems a bit weak.....unless of course, the mccs knew it was safe to leave them there.
If the twins had been abducted from the creche the next day that would have really helped narrow it down to the few members of staff who were supposed to be looking after them at the time wouldn't it? *%87
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Do forgive me for for pointing out how ridiculous your responding post is. It is bang ON Topic though since it illustrates you have learned exactly ZERO in sixteen years.
have learned exactly ZERO in sixteen years.
That's because in reality .....neither has one else.
Plenty of so-called suspects ..then back to the drawing board
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If the twins had been abducted from the creche the next day that would have really helped narrow it down to the few members of staff who were supposed to be looking after them at the time wouldn't it? *%87
Well IMO it was always narrowed down ..then as it is now.
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have learned exactly ZERO in sixteen years.
That's because in reality .....neither has one else.
Plenty of so-called suspects ..then back to the drawing board
Some people never learn
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Some people never learn
Some people are just not capable. It isn't their fault. It is just the way they are and probably happier for being so. If you can call it happy.
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Well IMO it was always narrowed down ..then as it is now.
You must be utterly incredulous and constantly bemused that those in authority and who have access to ALL the relevant information don't share your (less than informed) opinion. Never mind, one day I hope you get over it.
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Some people are just not capable. It isn't their fault. It is just the way they are and probably happier for being so. If you can call it happy.
Ignorance can be cured but stupidity can't and I have learned over the years which one is which 🙄
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Some people never learn
"Some people never learn"
What is it people other than yourself have not learned exactly?
A German guy was in PDL same time as Maddie's disappearance. erm so was Kate N Gerry.
Has anyone learned if Maddie was abducted from the apartment or from the street? I hope the perpetrator is found and he answers this question...
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"Some people never learn"
What is it people other than yourself have not learned exactly?
A German guy was in PDL same time as Maddie's disappearance. erm so was Kate N Gerry.
Has anyone learned if Maddie was abducted from the apartment or from the street? I hope the perpetrator is found and he answers this question...
I have learned there is a section of society which unashamedly roots for a convicted paedophile and rapist who is prime suspect in a child murder. Took me a while to work that one out.
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I have learned there is a section of society which unashamedly roots for a convicted paedophile and rapist who is prime suspect in a child murder. Took me a while to work that one out.
Oh really. care to name and shames these horrible individuals. Probably them celebrity types who rooted for Jimmy the savage Saville?
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Ignorance can be cured but stupidity can't and I have learned over the years which one is which 🙄
Were you cured then .............
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Were you cured then .............
I wasn't ill. But do cast a quick glance over your signature line and wonder about it/
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have learned exactly ZERO in sixteen years.
That's because in reality .....neither has one else.
Plenty of so-called suspects ..then back to the drawing board
One of the many things I've learnt is..
You can't educate pork
Simple...to the point...and so very true
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I have learned there is a section of society which unashamedly roots for a convicted paedophile and rapist who is prime suspect in a child murder. Took me a while to work that one out.
Seems it taking you a while working a lot of things out.
What do you think you have evidence wise......nothing.
Abduction is still not proven.
You know full well no one is rooting for a convicted paedo...its just part of your spin.
CB is just a profile that HWC is trying to fit into .....what happened to Maddie.
It seems using Maddie for maximum publicity ...to help solve the 5 cases he is working on.
What exactly was he looking for at the reservoir...........surly you don't think it was pajamas
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Seems it taking you a while working a lot of things out.
What do you think you have evidence wise......nothing.
Abduction is still not proven.
You know full well no one is rooting for a convicted paedo...its just part of your spin.
CB is just a profile that HWC is trying to fit into .....what happened to Maddie.
It seems using Maddie for maximum publicity ...to help solve the 5 cases he is working on.
What exactly was he looking for at the reservoir...........surly you don't think it was pajamas
I never thought this case would be solved now I'm sure it will.
He doesn't need any publicity to solve the other 5 crimes...as they didn't for the DM rape. The rape the PJ couldn't solve but the BKA did. The rape that although tried in a court of of law..amaral and some sceptics falsely say never happened.
How insulting to the victim who was beaten and tortured by CB
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Seems it taking you a while working a lot of things out.
What do you think you have evidence wise......nothing.
Abduction is still not proven.
You know full well no one is rooting for a convicted paedo...its just part of your spin.
CB is just a profile that HWC is trying to fit into .....what happened to Maddie.
It seems using Maddie for maximum publicity ...to help solve the 5 cases he is working on.
What exactly was he looking for at the reservoir...........surly you don't think it was pajamas
What convinces you the BKA don't have the evidence they claim
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[quote author=Mr Gray link=topic=12497. (&^&...as they didn't for the DM rape. The rape the PJ couldn't solve but the BKA did. The rape that although tried in a court of of law..amaral and some sceptics falsely say never happened.
How insulting to the victim who was beaten and tortured by CB
[/quote]
Listen those crimes are horrendous .same as the thousands of other crimes that happen every day.
This is in case you have forgotten.is what happened to Maddie.
Not a CV project about HCW.
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What convinces you the BKA don't have the evidence they claim
Wasnt one of the things ...a bra strap
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[quote author=Mr Gray link=topic=12497. (&^&...as they didn't for the DM rape. The rape the PJ couldn't solve but the BKA did. The rape that although tried in a court of of law..amaral and some sceptics falsely say never happened.
How insulting to the victim who was beaten and tortured by CB
Listen those crimes are horrendous .same as the thousands of other crimes that happen every day.
This is in case you have forgotten.is what happened to Maddie.
Not a CV project about HCW.
If the PJ had locked CB up for the rape of DM ..Maddie may well still be alive
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Wasnt one of the things ...a bra strap
The BKA have never said a bra strap is their concrete evidence
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Seems it taking you a while working a lot of things out.
What do you think you have evidence wise......nothing.
Abduction is still not proven.
You know full well no one is rooting for a convicted paedo...its just part of your spin.
CB is just a profile that HWC is trying to fit into .....what happened to Maddie.
It seems using Maddie for maximum publicity ...to help solve the 5 cases he is working on.
What exactly was he looking for at the reservoir...........surly you don't think it was pajamas
No one knows what they were looking for specifically they haven’t said. Nor have they itemised what was found. Nor have they said whether or not anything of relevance was discovered to take this case forward. Until they reveal any of this information we are all in the dark. Until then you can imagine that the Germans have egg on their faces, that they have failed, that nothing was found, that it’s all a complete waste of time and resources designed to pursue some mysterious agends but remember all of this is still in your imagination. IMO “wait and see” before casting judgement is the best policy, though not a very popular one it would seem.
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I never thought this case would be solved now I'm sure it will.
He doesn't need any publicity to solve the other 5 crimes...as they didn't for the DM rape. The rape the PJ couldn't solve but the BKA did. The rape that although tried in a court of of law..amaral and some sceptics falsely say never happened.
How insulting to the victim who was beaten and tortured by CB
Yes, only thanks to Busching & the other crook. If they hadn't reported seeing the rape tape, then the BKA wouldn't have solved the DM case either. They'd have had no reason to even look at the case. Now, since Wolters hitched Brueckner to the Maddie case, other people, like Hazel B, have come forward. Brueckner is going down for at least 5 sex offences. Great. But they have b....r all to do with Madeleine's disappearance, as you'll discover, when Brueckner still hasn't been charged, in how ever many years time it takes you to realise.
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If the PJ had locked CB up for the rape of DM ..Maddie may well still be alive
ffs posts sense...........like
If the mccs hadn't left Maddie alone....never mind may she would have been alive.
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I wasn't ill. But do cast a quick glance over your signature line and wonder about it/
On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her
Should look at your signature stating there is evidence against CB .when in fact there isn't.
At least mine is the truth.
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ffs posts sense...........like
If the mccs hadn't left Maddie alone....never mind may she would have been alive.
I agree with you on leaving Maddie...does that surprise you..they were 100,% wrong
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The BKA have never said a bra strap is their concrete evidence
Do you think it was the shrine then.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12131383/Police-searched-reservoir-Maddie-McCann-case-British-couple-discovered-shrine-her.html
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ffs posts sense...........like
If the mccs hadn't left Maddie alone....never mind may she would have been alive.
The McCanns were wrong to leave Maddie..I agree
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ffs posts sense...........like
If the mccs hadn't left Maddie alone....never mind may she would have been alive.
Same goes for all children abducted, raped and murdered then, right? The parents are always to blame.
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If Madeleine was an actual target then she could have been taken in the middle of the night. But no doubt that would have been the fault of The McCanns somehow. Drunk or whatever, or how dare they go to sleep.
I remember one woman who said she slept on the floor outside the children's bedrooms every night, as one should of course.
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If Madeleine was an actual target then she could have been taken in the middle of the night. But no doubt that would have been the fault of The McCanns somehow. Drunk or whatever, or how dare they go to sleep.
I remember one woman who said she slept on the floor outside the children's bedrooms every night, as one should of course.
OUTSIDE the bedroom?! How neglectful.
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OUTSIDE the bedroom?! How neglectful.
Two Bedrooms. A Boy and a Girl. Which one to choose I wonder.
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Same goes for all children abducted, raped and murdered then, right? The parents are always to blame.
No, of course not. Not ALL parents are ALWAYS to blame. One has to judge each case separately. Undoubtedly though, there will be SOME cases where SOME blame can be apportioned to the parents. Like this one. Even though I don't believe Maddie was abducted anyway.
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Same goes for all children abducted, raped and murdered then, right? The parents are always to blame.
Not always but the biggest percentage is someone known to them ..family/friends etc
It seems as though the mccs never suspected friends .......for some reason
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Not always but the biggest percentage is someone known to them ..family/friends etc
It seems as though the mccs never suspected friends .......for some reason
Perhaps because they were sat with them all night.
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Not always but the biggest percentage is someone known to them ..family/friends etc
It seems as though the mccs never suspected friends .......for some reason
Although, some former friends did let police know of alleged inappropriate behavior witnessed while holidaying with the Mc's Before.
Nothing has been learned. still no evidence of abduction from apartment.
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Although, some former friends did let police know of alleged inappropriate behavior witnessed while holidaying with the Mc's Before.
Nothing has been learned. still no evidence of abduction from apartment.
a husband and wife who were both present but didn't actually agree on what did or didn't happen.
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a husband and wife who were both present but didn't actually agree on what did or didn't happen.
Its a rarity for husband and wife to agree over anything
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Its a rarity for husband and wife to agree over anything
This is not helpful when signing two differing witness statements.
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Ignorance can be cured but stupidity can't and I have learned over the years which one is which 🙄
Did this happen during therapy?
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a husband and wife who were both present but didn't actually agree on what did or didn't happen.
The husband said;
I do remember seeing David use his left index finger to rub his nipple, using circular movements, whilst he put his right index finger into his mouth, touching his tongue.
The wife said;
Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, whilst with the other hand he circled his nipple, with a circulating movement over his clothes.
Sounds like agreement to me.
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The husband said;
I do remember seeing David use his left index finger to rub his nipple, using circular movements, whilst he put his right index finger into his mouth, touching his tongue.
The wife said;
Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, whilst with the other hand he circled his nipple, with a circulating movement over his clothes.
Sounds like agreement to me.
David Payne and Gerry McCann were discussing the sexual abuse of their daughters while the female witness was sitting between them and they were talking across her? Does this sound likely to you?
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David Payne and Gerry McCann were discussing the sexual abuse of their daughters while the female witness was sitting between them and they were talking across her? Does this sound likely to you?
What were they talking about then?
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The husband said;
I do remember seeing David use his left index finger to rub his nipple, using circular movements, whilst he put his right index finger into his mouth, touching his tongue.
The wife said;
Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, whilst with the other hand he circled his nipple, with a circulating movement over his clothes.
Sounds like agreement to me.
They disagreed about its significance and about the character of DP as well you know
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The bit G-Unit chose to omit from Arul Gaspar’s statement
“I can say that Dave was a pleasant person.
I do not remember him having any unusual characteristics.
During the holidays Dave never behaved in an inappropriate manner with Madeleine or with any of the other children.
Dave was popular with the children and I took this to be because he was a close friend to the family.
I never distrusted Dave...”
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They disagreed about its significance and about the character of DP as well you know
Yes, Gunit does know. This is just gratuitous nastiness with no foundation.
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Yes, Gunit does know. This is just gratuitous nastiness with no foundation.
It’s typical propaganda spreading. The obsession with the Gaspar Statement continues. It must be incredibly puzzling to those obsessed by it why none of the professionals investigating Madeleine’s disappearance has ever been remotely interested in it.
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They disagreed about its significance and about the character of DP as well you know
Yes. They agreed on the facts but their opinions differed. Facts are objective, opinions are subjective.
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Yes. They agreed on the facts but their opinions differed. Facts are objective, opinions are subjective.
These so called facts tell us nothing wrt to what happened to Madeleine so that’s another fact for you to file.
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Still no explanation as for why two fathers would discuss the sexual abuse of their daughters with a female witness sitting between them at a holiday dinner table.
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There is such an absolute desperation for all the horrible misconceptions fabricated around this case that I have learned to trust in nothing printed about them on the internet.
Particularly anything produced from the stable of so called journalist Levy; which true to form only his nom-de-plume. At least he had the excuse for his perfidy of making a dishonest buck or two.
What motivates the others who have been looking for a paedophile since 2007 while following his lead, is one big mystery of this case.
Particularly when the prime suspect is
a) a resident at the time in Luz
b) a convicted paedophile
c) a convicted rapist
d) prime suspect of British police
e) prime suspect of Portuguese police
f) prime suspect of German police who have taken a step further and added for child murder
There is supporting evidence for all of this ~ all that is remaining is for the system to move along and test it in court.
The vile insinuations still being put forward about demonstrably innocent people while lending moral support to a monster certainly has been a part of my learning curve.
I didn't believe such arrant stupidity was possible - I know better now.
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There is such an absolute desperation for all the horrible misconceptions fabricated around this case that I have learned to trust in nothing printed about them on the internet.
Particularly anything produced from the stable of so called journalist Levy; which true to form only his nom-de-plume. At least he had the excuse for his perfidy of making a dishonest buck or two.
What motivates the others who have been looking for a paedophile since 2007 while following his lead, is one big mystery of this case.
Particularly when the prime suspect is
a) a resident at the time in Luz
b) a convicted paedophile
c) a convicted rapist
d) prime suspect of British police
e) prime suspect of Portuguese police
f) prime suspect of German police who have taken a step further and added for child murder
There is supporting evidence for all of this ~ all that is remaining is for the system to move along and test it in court.
The vile insinuations still being put forward about demonstrably innocent people while lending moral support to a monster certainly has been a part of my learning curve.
I didn't believe such arrant stupidity was possible - I know better now.
Well done. Can I assume that your scepticism extends to the online stories amanating from the newspapers?
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There is such an absolute desperation for all the horrible misconceptions fabricated around this case that I have learned to trust in nothing printed about them on the internet.
Particularly anything produced from the stable of so called journalist Levy; which true to form only his nom-de-plume. At least he had the excuse for his perfidy of making a dishonest buck or two.
What motivates the others who have been looking for a paedophile since 2007 while following his lead, is one big mystery of this case.
Particularly when the prime suspect is
a) a resident at the time in Luz
b) a convicted paedophile
c) a convicted rapist
d) prime suspect of British police
e) prime suspect of Portuguese police
f) prime suspect of German police who have taken a step further and added for child murder
There is supporting evidence for all of this ~ all that is remaining is for the system to move along and test it in court.
The vile insinuations still being put forward about demonstrably innocent people while lending moral support to a monster certainly has been a part of my learning curve.
I didn't believe such arrant stupidity was possible - I know better now.
The case against The New Prime Suspect, won't be getting tested in court, anytime in the foreseeable future. He hasn't even been charged, so it isn't a matter of the court system 'moving along'. The case isn't at that stage & never will be. I did try telling you this 3 years ago, & here we are 3 years later. Still no charges for Brueckner. So my question to the forum is this...
How many more years before supporters realise Wolters never really had anything?
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It's interesting that Brietta says the McCanns are 'demonstrably innocent', considering the AG determined that they lost the opportunity to prove their innocence. So my question to the forum is this...
What demonstrates the McCanns innocence?
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Well done. Can I assume that your scepticism extends to the online stories amanating from the newspapers?
It certainly doesn't extend as far as the hot air from Wolters mouth.
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Nice moderating there.
I gather we are allowed to say the McCanns are demonstrably innocent, but what we're not allowed to do is ask what exactly demonstrates this innocence. @)(++(*
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I am not sure how I feel beyond the fact that there are some horrible people alive and breathing spite all over everything. I think I probably feel sorry for them. At least I hope so.
But I have also improved my English Language Skills and my ability to spot hogwash when I read it. Sceptics need to improve their Hogwash Skills. Although The McCanns will never be indicted for anything. Bottom Line, Folks, but do keep on trying. It is often amusing.
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I am not sure how I feel beyond the fact that there are some horrible people alive and breathing spite all over everything. I think I probably feel sorry for them. At least I hope so.
But I have also improved my English Language Skills and my ability to spot hogwash when I read it. Sceptics need to improve their Hogwash Skills. Although The McCanns will never be indicted for anything. Bottom Line, Folks, but do keep on trying. It is often amusing.
Why is it so important to you that no one questions the innocence of the McCanns?
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It is a Fact of Law that no one has to prove their Innocence. We all should have learned that in the last 16 Years.
If we could cut the garbage on this one then it will make my life easier.
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It is a Fact of Law that no one has to prove their Innocence. We all should have learned that in the last 16 Years.
If we could cut the garbage on this one then it will make my life easier.
Indeed it is. But the McCanns still failed to prove their innocence. That's not me saying it. I'm just repeating that which the archiving despatch stated. If you have a problem with it, best take it up with the AG.
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There is such an absolute desperation for all the horrible misconceptions fabricated around this case that I have learned to trust in nothing printed about them on the internet.
Particularly anything produced from the stable of so called journalist Levy; which true to form only his nom-de-plume. At least he had the excuse for his perfidy of making a dishonest buck or two.
What motivates the others who have been looking for a paedophile since 2007 while following his lead, is one big mystery of this case.
Particularly when the prime suspect is
a) a resident at the time in Luz
b) a convicted paedophile
c) a convicted rapist
d) prime suspect of British police
e) prime suspect of Portuguese police
f) prime suspect of German police who have taken a step further and added for child murder
There is supporting evidence for all of this ~ all that is remaining is for the system to move along and test it in court.
The vile insinuations still being put forward about demonstrably innocent people while lending moral support to a monster certainly has been a part of my learning curve.
I didn't believe such arrant stupidity was possible - I know better now.
Funny how G-Unit appears to attach such great significance to the Gaspar statement but appears deeply sceptical of an established in a court of law rape conviction against a know thief and child molestor. And why? All because she thinks Gerry and Kate are a little bit shifty. Amazing leaps and twists of logic required there.
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Funny how G-Unit appears to attach such great significance to the Gaspar statement but appears deeply sceptical of an established in a court of law rape conviction against a know thief and child molestor. And why? All because she thinks Gerry and Kate are a little bit shifty. Amazing leaps and twists of logic required there.
Funny how Gunit places No significance on the other Gaspar statement.
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These so called facts tell us nothing wrt to what happened to Madeleine so that’s another fact for you to file.
File it along with the fact that this man making inappropriate gestures at the dining table is also the last supposedly independent witness that can confirm the missing child's wellbeing on the evening of May 3rd. Could there be a connection? According to Brietta, she can demonstrate that there isn't. Off you go Brietta, the floor is all yours.....
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Strange how they never suspected anyone but a so-called abductor... from the very beginning.
Why would they be so sure ... the first thing you would have thought is the people around you.imo
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File it along with the fact that this man making inappropriate gestures at the dining table is also the last supposedly independent witness that can confirm the missing child's wellbeing on the evening of May 3rd. Could there be a connection? According to Brietta, she can demonstrate that there isn't. Off you go Brietta, the floor is all yours.....
His visit to 5A was suggested and attested to by MM's father, who also suggested he had checked on the McCann children on the previous evening, although all the rest of the party were adamant that DP never took part in any checks on any evening.
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His visit to 5A was suggested and attested to by MM's father, who also suggested he had checked on the McCann children on the previous evening, although all the rest of the party were adamant that DP never took part in any checks on any evening.
Cite, Please.
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Like DP OTT statement in which he refers to calling in on Kate McCann on the evening of May3rd, 2007,
and he describes seeing 'the three children....in their pyjamas....you know they were just like ANGELS ...the night attire...WHITE was the predominant colour.'
According to Peter Hyatt's statement analysis: the words 'angels' and 'white' are an interesting choice of words.
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Like DP OTT statement in which he refers to calling in on Kate McCann on the evening of May3rd, 2007,
and he describes seeing 'the three children....in their pyjamas....you know they were just like ANGELS ...the night attire...WHITE was the predominant colour.'
According to Peter Hyatt's statement analysis: the words 'angels' and 'white' are an interesting choice of words.
Fascinating. Just how raving mad are these people? Don't say Angels and don't say White, otherwise you could be accused of a crime. Perhaps they all went to heaven, excepting that two of them obviously didn't.
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So kmc took a shower leaving the patio door ope and the children alone to their own devices ...yet
Kate - “At around six forty, as I was drying myself off, there was a knock on the patio doors and I heard David’s voice calling me. Swiftly wrapping my towel around me I stepped into the sitting room.”
Kate (book) - “David had popped his head round the patio doors looking for me,”
David Payne, rogatory interview:
I was you know going to Kate’s about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it’s a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they’ve had such a great time, they’re really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can’t remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn’t there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who’d had such a fantastic time etc.
He noticed all that in around 30 seconds.
Kate McCann, september statement:
While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at around 6:30/6:40PM and while she was getting dry, she heard somebody knocking at the verandah door. She wrapped herself in a towel and went to see who it was. This door was closed but not locked as Gerry had left by this door. She confirmed it was David Payne, because he called out and had opened the door slightly. David’s visit was to help her to take the children to the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was with Gerry at the tennis courts, and it was Gerry who asked him to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area, which had been arranged but did not take place. David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t actually enter the flat, he remained at the verandah door. According to her he then left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40PM.
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So kmc took a shower leaving the patio door ope and the children alone to their own devices ...yet
Kate - “At around six forty, as I was drying myself off, there was a knock on the patio doors and I heard David’s voice calling me. Swiftly wrapping my towel around me I stepped into the sitting room.”
Kate (book) - “David had popped his head round the patio doors looking for me,”
David Payne, rogatory interview:
I was you know going to Kate’s about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it’s a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they’ve had such a great time, they’re really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can’t remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn’t there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who’d had such a fantastic time etc.
He noticed all that in around 30 seconds.
Kate McCann, september statement:
While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at around 6:30/6:40PM and while she was getting dry, she heard somebody knocking at the verandah door. She wrapped herself in a towel and went to see who it was. This door was closed but not locked as Gerry had left by this door. She confirmed it was David Payne, because he called out and had opened the door slightly. David’s visit was to help her to take the children to the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was with Gerry at the tennis courts, and it was Gerry who asked him to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area, which had been arranged but did not take place. David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t actually enter the flat, he remained at the verandah door. According to her he then left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40PM.
Did any Legal Charges ever come of this? No? Why ever not?
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Cite, Please.
at 18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00,
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
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His visit to 5A was suggested and attested to by MM's father, who also suggested he had checked on the McCann children on the previous evening, although all the rest of the party were adamant that DP never took part in any checks on any evening.
If DP is involved in Madeleine’s disappearance and the Gaspar statement is as relevant as you think it is then it follows you don’t believe for one minute that Madeleine died in an accident after the McCanns left fordinner that evening. Instead you would appear to believe something far darker and more depraved occurred. Right?
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If DP is involved in Madeleine’s disappearance and the Gaspar statement is as relevant as you think it is then it follows you don’t believe for one minute that Madeleine died in an accident after the McCanns left fordinner that evening. Instead you would appear to believe something far darker and more depraved occurred. Right?
Just how relevant does G unit think the Gasper statement is then?
I don't recall her mentioning it very often.
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at 18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00,
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Your posts really are quite a remarkable entity.
They say absolutely nothing. And they mean even less.
What they achieve is confirmation of precisely how little you have taken in and understood of what has been going on in the real world over the past few years. Your posts owe much to what was in vogue amongst sceptics circa 2007 ~ really quite tragic your failure to appreciate that absolutely everyone in the world except a chosen few, have moved on and don't live their lives immersed daily in negativity about someone else's.
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Your posts really are quite a remarkable entity.
They say absolutely nothing. And they mean even less.
What they achieve is confirmation of precisely how little you have taken in and understood of what has been going on in the real world over the past few years. Your posts owe much to what was in vogue amongst sceptics circa 2007 ~ really quite tragic your failure to appreciate that absolutely everyone in the world except a chosen few, have moved on and don't live their lives immersed daily in negativity about someone else's.
I wondered what that comment meant but decided that it had nothing to do with anything relevant.
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I wondered what that comment meant but decided that it had nothing to do with anything relevant.
G-Unit obviously thinks DP is in on it. I mean, look at the huge wealth of evidence against him compared to someone like CB (who is obviously innocent, even of the crimes he has been convicted of!)
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I wondered what that comment meant but decided that it had nothing to do with anything relevant.
The only known relevance to Madeleine's case is sitting in a German jail praying to the devil for his teams of expensive lawyers to get him out of jail on a technicality.
He is charged with five serious sexual crimes against women and children but no-one is interested at all in that.
It has been one of the most unedifying experiences of my life to watch sceptics vigorously throw in their lot in support of this abhorrent still technically innocent creature without waiting to see what the evidence is against him.
That is now part of my learning curve - sceptics are a million times worse than I ever thought possible.
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The only known relevance to Madeleine's case is sitting in a German jail praying to the devil for his teams of expensive lawyers to get him out of jail on a technicality.
He is charged with five serious sexual crimes against women and children but no-one is interested at all in that.
It has been one of the most unedifying experiences of my life to watch sceptics vigorously throw in their lot in support of this abhorrent still technically innocent creature without waiting to see what the evidence is against him.
That is now part of my learning curve - sceptics are a million times worse than I ever thought possible.
There's no need for us to 'wait & see' what the evidence against Brueckner is. We have long since established that Wolters doesn't really have anything.
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G-Unit obviously thinks DP is in on it. I mean, look at the huge wealth of evidence against him compared to someone like CB (who is obviously innocent, even of the crimes he has been convicted of!)
There's more evidence DP came into contact with Maddie, than Brueckner ever did.
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The only known relevance to Madeleine's case is sitting in a German jail praying to the devil for his teams of expensive lawyers to get him out of jail on a technicality.
He is charged with five serious sexual crimes against women and children but no-one is interested at all in that.
It has been one of the most unedifying experiences of my life to watch sceptics vigorously throw in their lot in support of this abhorrent still technically innocent creature without waiting to see what the evidence is against him.
That is now part of my learning curve - sceptics are a million times worse than I ever thought possible.
I did so hope that this wasn't the case, but after this last few days even I have to admit that you are right.
And all it took was two opposing statements.
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I did so hope that this wasn't the case, but after this last few days even I have to admit that you are right.
And all it took was two opposing statements.
But the statements didn't oppose each other. Both Gaspars witnessed the event.
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Just how relevant does G unit think the Gasper statement is then?
I don't recall her mentioning it very often.
I haven't because I don't attach a lot of importance to it. It's simply part of the whole. I mentioned ir now only because someone tried to assert that the two witnesses disagreed, and, when it came to the bare facts they didn't.
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I haven't because I don't attach a lot of importance to it. It's simply part of the whole. I mentioned ir now only because someone tried to assert that the two witnesses disagreed, and, when it came to the bare facts they didn't.
Bare Facts. Regardless of interpretation. Tell that to The Judge and Jury.
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Bare Facts. Regardless of interpretation. Tell that to The Judge and Jury.
You're quite right. Evidence can be open to interpretation. As a member of the jury in the court of public opinion, I don't interpret Martin Smiths sighting to be evidence of abduction.
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You're quite right. Evidence can be open to interpretation. As a member of the jury in the court of public opinion, I don't interpret Martin Smiths sighting to be evidence of abduction.
Me too. I also never thought that Jane Tanner's sighting was evidence of abduction.
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I haven't because I don't attach a lot of importance to it. It's simply part of the whole. I mentioned ir now only because someone tried to assert that the two witnesses disagreed, and, when it came to the bare facts they didn't.
I don't see the incident as important either. It merely confirms to me that David & Gerry have a close relationship & as such, that Payne's claim that Maddie was alive & well on the evening of May 3rd should be treated with scepticism. That & the fact that Kate & David gave differing accounts of their meeting. But anyway, that's all been dealt with now. The matter cleared up. Wolters has conducted a very serious investigation, that hasn't involved interviewing either the McCanns or Dr Payne.
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I don't see the incident as important either. It merely confirms to me that David & Gerry have a close relationship & as such, that Payne's claim that Maddie was alive & well on the evening of May 3rd should be treated with scepticism. That & the fact that Kate & David gave differing accounts of their meeting. But anyway, that's all been dealt with now. The matter cleared up. Wolters has conducted a very serious investigation, that hasn't involved interviewing either the McCanns or Dr Payne.
Very much like OG really.
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Very much like OG really.
And perfectly explicable to anyone with half a braincell.
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I haven't because I don't attach a lot of importance to it. It's simply part of the whole. I mentioned ir now only because someone tried to assert that the two witnesses disagreed, and, when it came to the bare facts they didn't.
they disagreed of its significance. If it had no significance then it had no relevance, don’t make out that the two witnesses were in agreement about DP and his actions because they werent. Was a time on this forum when we weren’t even allowed to reference those statements if I recall correctly , any idea why this has changed?
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Me too. I also never thought that Jane Tanner's sighting was evidence of abduction.
Why not? You think MS statement is evidence of parental involvement don’t you?
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they disagreed of its significance. If it had no significance then it had no relevance, don’t make out that the two witnesses were in agreement about DP and his actions because they werent. Was a time on this forum when we weren’t even allowed to reference those statements if I recall correctly , any idea why this has changed?
But they were in agreement. Both agreed that David made a particular gesture. It's open to interpretation & seeing as though it's recorded in evidence I really don't see the problem with discussing the matter.
Why would you rather we weren't allowed?
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And perfectly explicable to anyone with half a braincell.
Really? I find it rather strange that the BKA have definitive evidence Madeleine was murdered by Brueckner, but have neither shared it with the McCanns nor ever even interviewed them. There is no contact between the McCanns & Wolters. Can you conjure an excuse for why not?
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Why not? You think MS statement is evidence of parental involvement don’t you?
It can quite easily be interpreted as such, yes. It would account for all the inconsistencies, why the McCanns never promoted the Smith sighting & why the police still can't find the abductor after 16 years.
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But they were in agreement. Both agreed that David made a particular gesture. It's open to interpretation & seeing as though it's recorded in evidence I really don't see the problem with discussing the matter.
Why would you rather we weren't allowed?
Please observe forum rules particularly the one about libel.
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Please observe forum rules particularly the one about libel.
OK. No more discussion about Dr Payne & the Smith sighting. Let's get back to discussing the concrete evidence against Christian Brueckner. There's plenty to talk about there.
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Why not? You think MS statement is evidence of parental involvement don’t you?
Do I?
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Do I?
Question 1). is Martin Smith’s statement evidence in your view?
Question 2) If so what theory does his evidence tend to support in your view?
So, yes I would say you most certainly do, I’m amazed you would even attempt to deny it.
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Question 1). is Martin Smith’s statement evidence in your view?
Question 2) If so what theory does his evidence tend to support in your view?
So, yes I would say you most certainly do, I’m amazed you would even attempt to deny it.
Just carry on believing yourself then. You will anyway, no matter what I say because you're so clever, aren't you?
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Just carry on believing yourself then. You will anyway, no matter what I say because you're so clever, aren't you?
Why are you unable to answer the questions? Is Martin Smith’s statement evidence, and if so which theory does it support? It has nothing to do with me being clever, it’s just two very simple questions that for some inexplicable reason you can’t face up to.
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Why are you unable to answer the questions? Is Martin Smith’s statement evidence, and if so which theory does it support? It has nothing to do with me being clever, it’s just two very simple questions that for some inexplicable reason you can’t face up to.
Why does it matter to you, what G does or doesn't believe?
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Let’s try it another way. In the highly unlikely event that Gerry McCann ends up in the dock accused of hiding his daughter’s body would the Smith statement be heard as evidence in court, and if so would it be for the prosecution or the defence? I wonder if anyone can answer this question?
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Let’s try it another way. In the highly unlikely event that Gerry McCann ends up in the dock accused of hiding his daughter’s body would the Smith statement be heard as evidence in court, and if so would it be for the prosecution or the defence? I wonder if anyone can answer this question?
It is all down to corroboration.
My opinion is that none of it could be entered in evidence in the first instance - so the situation would never arise.
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A judge would have to decide what could or couldn't be entered into evidence. But the statute of limitations has expired anyway. The McCanns will never be charged with anything. But if I were Brueckner's attorney, I'd be calling Smith as a witness in his defence. But then it's not looking much like Brueckner will ever be charged either.
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Why do some people find it so hard to understand the difference between what is admissible and what isn't?
Most of the supposed evidence which is argued on this Board is inadmissible. This means that it isn't relevant or is too easy to refute.
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Well at least we appear to have established that Martin Smith's statement is not evidence of Gerry McCann's involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, let's hope we never have to discuss it again as clearly it is of no significance whatsoever... 8(>((
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Well at least we appear to have established that Martin Smith's statement is not evidence of Gerry McCann's involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, let's hope we never have to discuss it again as clearly it is of no significance whatsoever... 8(>((
Give it five. It will be back.
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Why do some people find it so hard to understand the difference between what is admissible and what isn't?
Most of the supposed evidence which is argued on this Board is inadmissible. This means that it isn't relevant or is too easy to refute.
You're the arbiter of admissibility now are You?
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Well at least we appear to have established that Martin Smith's statement is not evidence of Gerry McCann's involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, let's hope we never have to discuss it again as clearly it is of no significance whatsoever... 8(>((
Well. You might think so, but I disagree. Smith is a witness. The McCanns are witnesses. I don't see why the McCanns should be able to give evidence but Smith cannot.
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Give it five. It will be back.
It means that sceptics' suspicions are not based on any evidence per se, just on...what? The fact that they don't like the look of the McCanns?? The fact that Gerry said back door when he meant front door or that he was sat next to someone on holiday who made a rude gesture? And these suspicions are somehow more compelling than everything we know about the official suspect CB? It's truly laughable.
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It means that sceptics' suspicions are not based on any evidence per se, just on...what? The fact that they don't like the look of the McCanns?? The fact that Gerry said back door when he meant front door or that he was sat next to someone on holiday who made a rude gesture? And these suspicions are somehow more compelling than everything we know about the official suspect CB? It's truly laughable.
What evidence against Brueckner do you find compelling?
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That's the question for the day. I've made it quite clear what evidence convinces me the McCanns did it. Now let's balance things & make a list of all the compelling evidence that Madeleine was taken in a criminal act by Christian Brueckner.
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A judge would have to decide what could or couldn't be entered into evidence. But the statute of limitations has expired anyway. The McCanns will never be charged with anything. But if I were Brueckner's attorney, I'd be calling Smith as a witness in his defence. But then it's not looking much like Brueckner will ever be charged either.
It really would have been better if the parents had been tried in a court of law. At least if found not guilty they would not have this shroud of guilt hanging over them to this day.
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It really would have been better if the parents had been tried in a court of law. At least if found not guilty they would not have this shroud of guilt hanging over them to this day.
Insufficient evidence. It couldn't be established which crime , if any, had been committed. When Smith had his epiphany the McCanns were back home, & they weren't in any hurry to return to Portugal & have another chat with the police. Oh well. Things have moved on since then. The three expert investigative forces have found evidence which exonerates the McCanns & heavily implicates Christian Brueckner.
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It really would have been better if the parents had been tried in a court of law. At least if found not guilty they would not have this shroud of guilt hanging over them to this day.
LOL @"Shroud Of Guilt" - that is merely a figment of your imagination. And double LOL at your rationale that the dwindling number of people who are still convinced they are guilty (ie, you, G-Unit and the troll) would think any different if they HAD been found not guilty. Be honest now, fgs.
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Did any Legal Charges ever come of this? No? Why ever not?
There isnt enough evidence .......not no evidence.
Never say never.... [althought you didnt say never in your post]
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Let’s try it another way. In the highly unlikely event that Gerry McCann ends up in the dock accused of hiding his daughter’s body would the Smith statement be heard as evidence in court, and if so would it be for the prosecution or the defence? I wonder if anyone can answer this question?
Wonder why Jim Gamble suspected gmcc at first.............why he would come to that conclusion.
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Wonder why Jim Gamble suspected gmcc at first.............why he would come to that conclusion.
why don't you ask him? I believe he is quite approachable. Actually no need, he already gave his reason:
His initial suspicion was based on his experience as a cop, as “statistically it's likely to be the parents or somebody who's in close proximity with the child”.
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Insufficient evidence. It couldn't be established which crime , if any, had been committed. When Smith had his epiphany the McCanns were back home, & they weren't in any hurry to return to Portugal & have another chat with the police. Oh well. Things have moved on since then. The three expert investigative forces have found evidence which exonerates the McCanns & heavily implicates Christian Brueckner.
Righty-ho.
I’ll await further developments with baited breath.
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You're the arbiter of admissibility now are You?
well someone has to be...
So we all agree CB did it? that would be irrefutable evidence yes? no?
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John quote
Given the resources that the Metropolitan Police and others have ploughed into the search for Madeleine over the last decade and a half, are we any closer to understanding what happened that fateful night in Praia da Luz?
And secondly, has anyone changed their mind in the last few years as to what they may or may not have initially believed in this case?
Have we learned anything in now[17] years...apart from another scapegoate being blamed.
Well seems we haven't ..so its back to the beginning and hopefully what happened to maddie. and
Not... C.B. that seems to have overtook this forum.
It is interesting to see quite a few new uploaded stuff on youtube about what happened to maddie.
Questioning the mccs account of what happened... it seems. The below one being one of them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI6VMbmxE4E
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God loves a tryer.
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God loves a tryer.
He certainly does.....HCW has been trying for over 4 year.,,to make CB the scapegoat.
One simple truth remains - there was no evidence of an abduction.
There is still no evidence of one
another very recent upload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koi7Dk4ByI8
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He certainly does.....HCW has been trying for over 4 year.,,to make CB the scapegoat.
One simple truth remains - there was no evidence of an abduction.
There is still no evidence of one
another very recent upload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koi7Dk4ByI8
I didn’t bother to click your link but I can imagine it was some sort of McCanns Dunnit propaganda. HCW may have been trying to secure a conviction for the abduction for the last 4 years but his efforts pale into insignificance compared to the 17.5 year campaign by the anti McCann brigade to convince the world that Kate and Gerry should be locked up. When do you think their campaign will finally bear fruit?
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I didn’t bother to click your link but I can imagine it was some sort of McCanns Dunnit propaganda. HCW may have been trying to secure a conviction for the abduction for the last 4 years but his efforts pale into insignificance compared to the 17.5 year campaign by the anti McCann brigade to convince the world that Kate and Gerry should be locked up. When do you think their campaign will finally bear fruit?
So, you don't think CB dunit propaganda then same as all the other so called suspects.
Its back to square one it seems...never going to bear fruit all the time abduction is the only option even though there is no evidence of one.
HCW trying to secure a conviction ...he used Maddie to get maximum publicity [and it worked]
But as you said god loves a tryer...but seems HCW failed miserably.
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So, you don't think CB dunit propaganda then same as all the other so called suspects.
Its back to square one it seems...never going to bear fruit all the time abduction is the only option even though there is no evidence of one.
HCW trying to secure a conviction ...he used Maddie to get maximum publicity [and it worked]
But as you said god loves a tryer...but seems HCW failed miserably.
Please explain why it is back to square one? Has CB been cleared of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance? If so I must have missed that headline.
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Please explain why it is back to square one? Has CB been cleared of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance? If so I must have missed that headline.
Oh pleaseee...what do you think this so called solid evidence [concrete] is then
maybe he never will be cleared or charged either...to me from the beginning he was not involved in what happened to Maddie.
Seem to remember the mccs were never cleared of any involvement either.
At this moment in time ...we are no further on from the day maddie was eventually reported missing.
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Oh pleaseee...what do you think this so called solid evidence [concrete] is then
maybe he never will be cleared or charged either...to me from the beginning he was not involved in what happened to Maddie.
Seem to remember the mccs were never cleared of any involvement either.
At this moment in time ...we are no further on from the day maddie was eventually reported missing.
in your opinion. In mine I think most people now accept that Madeleine was likely abducted by CB or someone very like him, ie: a local violent burglar with paedo tendencies. I think you would have to be extremely delusional to think that the police would ever discard this as the only working hypothesis and go back to considering the “parents dunnit” route, not without a bombshell piece of new evidence that put them bsck in the frame, eg: a confession or perhaps this video that that weirdo author allegedly has showing them digging a grave on top of the cliff. @)(++(*
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in your opinion. In mine I think most people now accept that Madeleine was likely abducted by CB or someone very like him, ie: a local violent burglar with paedo tendencies. I think you would have to be extremely delusional to think that the police would ever discard this as the only working hypothesis and go back to considering the “parents dunnit” route, not without a bombshell piece of new evidence that put them bsck in the frame, eg: a confession or perhaps this video that that weirdo author allegedly has showing them digging a grave on top of the cliff. @)(++(*
In mine I think most people now accept that Madeleine was likely abducted by CB or someone very like him, ie: a local violent burglar with paedo tendencies.
So, in other words anyone else will do ...as long as it isnt the mccs.
Now that's what you call delusional
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in your opinion. In mine I think most people now accept that Madeleine was likely abducted by CB or someone very like him, ie: a local violent burglar with paedo tendencies. I think you would have to be extremely delusional to think that the police would ever discard this as the only working hypothesis and go back to considering the “parents dunnit” route, not without a bombshell piece of new evidence that put them bsck in the frame, eg: a confession or perhaps this video that that weirdo author allegedly has showing them digging a grave on top of the cliff. @)(++(*
I'm reporting this post for being libellous. Christian Brueckner had no involvement whatsoever in Madeleines disappearance. Unless you can prove otherwise.
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In mine I think most people now accept that Madeleine was likely abducted by CB or someone very like him, ie: a local violent burglar with paedo tendencies.
So, in other words anyone else will do ...as long as it isnt the mccs.
Now that's what you call delusional
That's the plan. If CB is acquitted, then it must be someone just like him.
If we ever get to a trial, it will be real interesting to see the details of this abduction.
I can imagine the defence having a field day with Tapas 9 testimonies
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What I find curious is that McCann supporters defend the McCanns because they must be presumed innocent. But when it comes to Christian Brueckner the same rules do not seem to apply.
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In mine I think most people now accept that Madeleine was likely abducted by CB or someone very like him, ie: a local violent burglar with paedo tendencies.
So, in other words anyone else will do ...as long as it isnt the mccs.
Now that's what you call delusional
Yep. That's the gist of it. Anyone on earth could be a potential suspect, just not the McCanns. Anyway, whatever happened to Mr Gray? He spent the best part of the last 4 years telling us that Wolters has solved the case, has photographic evidence & that CB would be charged after the Behan rape trial because the two cases are connected. Well, the Behan rape trial is now over so we shouldn't have too much longer to wait until Brueckner is charged.
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In mine I think most people now accept that Madeleine was likely abducted by CB or someone very like him, ie: a local violent burglar with paedo tendencies.
So, in other words anyone else will do ...as long as it isnt the mccs.
Now that's what you call delusional
Explain why my opinion that Madeleine was abducted by a violent burglar with paedo tendencies is delusional.
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That's the plan. If CB is acquitted, then it must be someone just like him.
If we ever get to a trial, it will be real interesting to see the details of this abduction.
I can imagine the defence having a field day with Tapas 9 testimonies
You have a vivid imagination.
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Explain why my opinion that Madeleine was abducted by a violent burglar with paedo tendencies is delusional.
Do you have any evidence to support this theory? If not then you could well be delusional.
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Did any of you watch the recent documentary on the Zodiac killer? A wealth of circumstantial evidence against one individual who very obviously was the perp but just never enough evidence to take it to court so justice was never served. Well worth watching. Sometimes LE knows enough to know that their key suspect is their man but simply can’t secure the clinching evidence to prove it. It doesn’t mean they are completely wrong and need to start looking at someone else, why is that so very hard to grasp?
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Did any of you watch the recent documentary on the Zodiac killer? A wealth of circumstantial evidence against one individual who very obviously was the perp but just never enough evidence to take it to court so justice was never served. Well worth watching. Sometimes LE knows enough to know that their key suspect is their man but simply can’t secure the clinching evidence to prove it. It doesn’t mean they are completely wrong and need to start looking at someone else, why is that so very hard to grasp?
According to Wolters he already has the evidence to be certain Brueckner is the murderer. Kate & Gerry remain sceptical though. They must be mad not to believe the three investigative forces.
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So, do elucidate. Had CB actually been convicted of the crimes he was recently tried for this would have made all you McCann doubters concede that perhaps the Germans were right to consider him the chief suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? No, of course it wouldn’t have made any difference to your opinion, you’d still be utterly convinced he had nothing to do with it and it was the McCanns who did away with their daugther, so why on earth does his recent acquittal in these cases make any difference or change anything wrt MM? Why the gloating and “told you so finger wagging” now? Explain the logic.
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According to Wolters he already has the evidence to be certain Brueckner is the murderer. Kate & Gerry remain sceptical though. They must be mad not to believe the three investigative forces.
Either that, or they know that Wolters does not have that evidence
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Explain why my opinion that Madeleine was abducted by a violent burglar with paedo tendencies is delusional.
Because there was no abduction.
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So, do elucidate. Had CB actually been convicted of the crimes he was recently tried for this would have made all you McCann doubters concede that perhaps the Germans were right to consider him the chief suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? No, of course it wouldn’t have made any difference to your opinion, you’d still be utterly convinced he had nothing to do with it and it was the McCanns who did away with their daugther, so why on earth does his recent acquittal in these cases make any difference or change anything wrt MM? Why the gloating and “told you so finger wagging” now? Explain the logic.
We tried telling you 4 years ago that Brueckner would never be charged with anything relating to Maddie but you wouldn't have it. You carry on believing Wolters has abduction evidence if it makes you feel morally superior. In reality it's making you look a bit stupid. But hey, maybe Wolters will prove us all wrong next year aye.
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Did any of you watch the recent documentary on the Zodiac killer? A wealth of circumstantial evidence against one individual who very obviously was the perp but just never enough evidence to take it to court so justice was never served. Well worth watching. Sometimes LE knows enough to know that their key suspect is their man but simply can’t secure the clinching evidence to prove it. It doesn’t mean they are completely wrong and need to start looking at someone else, why is that so very hard to grasp?
That could also it seem apply to the mccs
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Evidence that does not pass the test in court is really no more than opinion.
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Either that, or they know that Wolters does not have that evidence
That's the most logical conclusion. There's really no good reason for the McCanns to doubt the three forces, they are in possession of all that abduction evidence they've spent nearly 20 years gathering & Kate & Gerry know they themselves are innocent, not just in law but in fact.
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So, do elucidate. Had CB actually been convicted of the crimes he was recently tried for this would have made all you McCann doubters concede that perhaps the Germans were right to consider him the chief suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? No, of course it wouldn’t have made any difference to your opinion, you’d still be utterly convinced he had nothing to do with it and it was the McCanns who did away with their daugther, so why on earth does his recent acquittal in these cases make any difference or change anything wrt MM? Why the gloating and “told you so finger wagging” now? Explain the logic.
Had CB actually been convicted of the crimes he was recently tried for this would have made all you McCann doubters
But he hasn't been ...has he.
Where is your logic
Silly post all based on probabilities
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Evidence that does not pass the test in court is really no more than opinion.
I'm glad the German court reached the correct verdict based on the evidence & didn't just convict Brueckner because Wolters said so.
In McCann land there's no need for a trial. If Wolters says Brueckner is guilty of something then he must be.
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Because there was no abduction.
Certainly the evidence of it still amounts to little more than Kate & Gerry's word. That & Brueckner's bogus confession.
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Yep. That's the gist of it. Anyone on earth could be a potential suspect, just not the McCanns. Anyway, whatever happened to Mr Gray? He spent the best part of the last 4 years telling us that Wolters has solved the case, has photographic evidence & that CB would be charged after the Behan rape trial because the two cases are connected. Well, the Behan rape trial is now over so we shouldn't have too much longer to wait until Brueckner is charged.
Re Mr Gray, he doesn't seem to have been around for most of this year.
Perhaps he has passed over to that great Dental surgery in the sky, or more likely is giving some other forum the benefit of his great legal knowledge.
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Because there was no abduction.
Three police forces disagree with your (uninformed) assessment.
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Either that, or they know that Wolters does not have that evidence
Do you think they don’t actually want Madeleine’s disappearance pinned on a scapegoat then? Perhaps they get off on all the unfounded suspicion and want it to continue. Yes, that will be the reason for their alleged scepticism (when did they last comment on this publicly btw?)
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That could also it seem apply to the mccs
Yes, and it could also apply to CB, do you understand that?
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Do you think they don’t actually want Madeleine’s disappearance pinned on a scapegoat then? Perhaps they get off on all the unfounded suspicion and want it to continue. Yes, that will be the reason for their alleged scepticism (when did they last comment on this publicly btw?)
Their website still says that there is nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed. That's how convinced they are by the concrete evidence.
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Re Mr Gray, he doesn't seem to have been around for most of this year.
Perhaps he has passed over to that great Dental surgery in the sky, or more likely is giving some other forum the benefit of his great legal knowledge.
Yes. It appears there are about 5 of us left who still use the forum. It's a pity because there's still so much abduction evidence we could be discussing.
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Had CB actually been convicted of the crimes he was recently tried for this would have made all you McCann doubters
But he hasn't been ...has he.
Where is your logic
Silly post all based on probabilities
Your ill considered reply does not explain why you think CB’s failed conviction on rape and child abuse charges means the police need to go back to square one in the Madeleine McCann case. Explain the logic.
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Three police forces disagree with your (uninformed) assessment.
That's the abduction evidence that convinces you isn't it. Well, I suppose it's all there is really. We've established that after 17 years. The abduction evidence amounts to it was abduction because they said so.
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Re Mr Gray, he doesn't seem to have been around for most of this year.
Perhaps he has passed over to that great Dental surgery in the sky, or more likely is giving some other forum the benefit of his great legal knowledge.
He’s on Websleuths where all the cool kids hang out these days. TBF it’s the only place you can have a half way mature discussion about the case without the likes of Spammy trolls making idiotic remarks after everything you write. That said, their mods are like the Stasi so a bit too rigid for my liking.
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Do you think they don’t actually want Madeleine’s disappearance pinned on a scapegoat then? Perhaps they get off on all the unfounded suspicion and want it to continue. Yes, that will be the reason for their alleged scepticism (when did they last comment on this publicly btw?)
I have no interest in CB whatsoever....my concern is the ones we have in the UK.
I believe Maddie was a scapegoat also ...used bY HCW for maximum publicity for information on the cases he has just dealt with.
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Yes, and it could also apply to CB, do you understand that?
No I don't... because I don't believe there was an abduction in the first place.
Do you understand that.
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Yes. It appears there are about 5 of us left who still use the forum. It's a pity because there's still so much abduction evidence we could be discussing.
6
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No I don't... because I don't believe there was an abduction in the first place.
Do you understand that.
What you believe is neither here nor there, but understanding principles such as the one I’ve described is important in order for there to be any meaningful discussion. If you don’t understand it then it’s the end of the discussion.
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I have no interest in CB whatsoever....my concern is the ones we have in the UK.
I believe Maddie was a scapegoat also ...used bY HCW for maximum publicity for information on the cases he has just dealt with.
What “ones” are you referencing to? So you think HCW was hellbent on solving the rape of some unknown Irish woman and the molestation of some tourist children on the Algarve and just used Madeleine as a scapegoat to secure a conviction? Interesting tactic.
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What “ones” are you referencing to? So you think HCW was hellbent on solving the rape of some unknown Irish woman and the molestation of some tourist children on the Algarve and just used Madeleine as a scapegoat to secure a conviction? Interesting tactic.
Cart before the horse. It's possible he used these now failed prosecutions partially as an attempt to bolster his hand against CB being responsible for abducting / killing MM. A high-risk gambit that totally imploded with the incomprehensible use of utterely feckless, untrustworthy witnesses as the only evidence proferred.
CB will be out soon, and is no doubt preparing the ground for dozens of lucrative lawsuits, as I predicted 4 years ago.
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What you believe is neither here nor there, but understanding principles such as the one I’ve described is important in order for there to be any meaningful discussion. If you don’t understand it then it’s the end of the discussion.
That's absolutely fine with me .. I dont come on here to discuss anything with you anyway.
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Cart before the horse. It's possible he used these now failed prosecutions partially as an attempt to bolster his hand against CB being responsible for abducting / killing MM. A high-risk gambit that totally imploded with the incomprehensible use of utterely feckless, untrustworthy witnesses as the only evidence proferred.
CB will be out soon, and is no doubt preparing the ground for dozens of lucrative lawsuits, as I predicted 4 years ago.
Now that would be pretty hilarious. Imagine a situation where rather than going to prison for the rape he didn't commit, Hazel B had to pay Brueckner compensation.
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That's absolutely fine with me .. I dont come on here to discuss anything with you anyway.
There's nothing left to discuss. Wolters has solved the case.
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Now that would be pretty hilarious. Imagine a situation where rather than going to prison for the rape he didn't commit, Hazel B had to pay Brueckner compensation.
Certainly the media that carried her interviews might come to regret doing so.
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There's nothing left to discuss. Wolters has solved the case.
Well, Ya according it seems to VS..he has
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Certainly the media that carried her interviews might come to regret doing so.
Anyway, I think Brueckner should be released & Wolters should be thrown in prison for being a massive liar.
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Question 1). is Martin Smith’s statement evidence in your view?
Question 2) If so what theory does his evidence tend to support in your view?
So, yes I would say you most certainly do, I’m amazed you would even attempt to deny it.
Martin Smith's statement is evidence. This is an uncorroborated eye witness account that has yet to be discounted. The results of the dog searches are evidence. The statement from the cleaner of 5a is evidence. The discovery of a pink blanket during a search is evidence. The fingerprints found on the shutters are evidence. The lack of fingerprints on the shutters is evidence. The testimony and subsequent, clandestine identification of Robert Murat by Jane tanner in the back of a van is evidence. The results of Dane Krugel's magic hair triangulation device is evidence.
Some evidence has more veracity that others, such as the alleged video surveillance of Kate and Gerry visiting a spot on a hill when lured there by an amateur detective.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_WycUe67y4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7rjqAoXEQ
Well seems people agree we are no further on.
Its amazing how EX police officers now give there view.
Also the amount of videos examining the so called abduction have been uploaded on youtube the last couple of months....especially the whooshing curtains. ...etc etc
and the dogs
An lets not forget.
quote
Simply because Portugal Police shelved the case in 2008
It doesn't imply that you Kate and Gerry Mccann.
Have been absolved in any wrong doing insufficient evidence
doesn't equate to innocence
"Even assuming that the applicants' reputation had been damaged, this was not on account of the argument put forward by the book's author but rather as a result of the suspicions expressed against them," the ECHR ruled.
Remembering Maddie.
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Have we learned anything new in the last 16 years? Not if the above post is anything to go by, no. Still going on about the bloody dogs, it’s really quite pitiful.
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Have we learned anything new in the last 16 years? Not if the above post is anything to go by, no. Still going on about the bloody dogs, it’s really quite pitiful.
What is more pitiful ....is over 17 year on .. 13 million + spent looking for an abductor that doesn't it seems exists.
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I’m sure an abductor exists, and I believe he has been identified. What may never happen is the accumulation of sufficient evidence to prove it in a court of law. Many, many suspects remain unprosecuted because although it seems highly probable they committed the crime and circumstantial evidence points to their guilt this is simply not enough cast iron proof to put before a judge and jury. I don’t think it is in any way a reflection on the German or British investigation that this is the point we have likely reached, so not pitiful at all (unlike the initial Portuguese investigation which missed so many leads and opportunities, and which seemed to turn a blind eye to other sex crimes against foreign tourists and their children on the Algarve).
Anyway, please remember you’ve explicitly stated you are not remotely interested in discussing this case with me, so I am quite content for that to be my last word on the matter. If however you quote this post and offer some reply I will probably be responding again and then we’ll be back having a discussion, something you have said you’re not interested in. What’s it to be?
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I’m sure an abductor exists, and I believe he has been identified. What may never happen is the accumulation of sufficient evidence to prove it in a court of law. Many, many suspects remain unprosecuted because although it seems highly probable they committed the crime and circumstantial evidence points to their guilt this is simply not enough cast iron proof to put before a judge and jury. I don’t think it is in any way a reflection on the German or British investigation that this is the point we have likely reached, so not pitiful at all (unlike the initial Portuguese investigation which missed so many leads and opportunities, and which seemed to turn a blind eye to other sex crimes against foreign tourists and their children on the Algarve).
Anyway, please remember you’ve explicitly stated you are not remotely interested in discussing this case with me, so I am quite content for that to be my last word on the matter. If however you quote this post and offer some reply I will probably be responding again and then we’ll be back having a discussion, something you have said you’re not interested in. What’s it to be?
Whatever Ve.
But couldnt resist this.
quote.
Many, many suspects remain unprosecuted because although it seems highly probable they committed the crime and circumstantial evidence points to their guilt this is simply not enough cast iron proof to put before a judge and jury.
I Couldn't have put it better myself.....only thing is our suspects are different.
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Whatever Ve.
But couldnt resist this.
quote.
Many, many suspects remain unprosecuted because although it seems highly probable they committed the crime and circumstantial evidence points to their guilt this is simply not enough cast iron proof to put before a judge and jury.
I Couldn't have put it better myself.....only thing is our suspects are different.
Your suspects, my suspects, doesn’t matter a hill of beans. The only suspects that matter are those that are being investigated by the law enforcement agencies that have access to ALL the evidence, including that which none of us have had sight of.
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I’m sure an abductor exists, and I believe he has been identified. What may never happen is the accumulation of sufficient evidence to prove it in a court of law. Many, many suspects remain unprosecuted because although it seems highly probable they committed the crime and circumstantial evidence points to their guilt this is simply not enough cast iron proof to put before a judge and jury. I don’t think it is in any way a reflection on the German or British investigation that this is the point we have likely reached, so not pitiful at all (unlike the initial Portuguese investigation which missed so many leads and opportunities, and which seemed to turn a blind eye to other sex crimes against foreign tourists and their children on the Algarve).
Anyway, please remember you’ve explicitly stated you are not remotely interested in discussing this case with me, so I am quite content for that to be my last word on the matter. If however you quote this post and offer some reply I will probably be responding again and then we’ll be back having a discussion, something you have said you’re not interested in. What’s it to be?
Yes I agree, the abductor has been identified. Martin Smith identified him 17 years ago, & that's why Brueckner hasn't been charged.
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Your suspects, my suspects, doesn’t matter a hill of beans. The only suspects that matter are those that are being investigated by the law enforcement agencies that have access to ALL the evidence, including that which none of us have had sight of.
I can't help but wonder why Madeleine’s parents still haven't had sight of ALL the evidence, & why they're not beating down Wolters door demanding to see it?
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Your suspects, my suspects, doesn’t matter a hill of beans. The only suspects that matter are those that are being investigated by the law enforcement agencies that have access to ALL the evidence, including that which none of us have had sight of.
The only suspects that matter are those that are being investigated by the law enforcement agencies that have access to ALL the evidence, including that which none of us have had sight of.
What makes you think its still being investigated ...who are the law enforcement agencies
what evidence....We don't have sight of it because it seems there isn't any....
If there was evidence.... charges would have been brought by now ...surely
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The only suspects that matter are those that are being investigated by the law enforcement agencies that have access to ALL the evidence, including that which none of us have had sight of.
What makes you think its still being investigated ...who are the law enforcement agencies
what evidence....We don't have sight of it because it seems there isn't any....
If there was evidence.... charges would have been brought by now ...surely
The fact that Operation Grange is still being funded and that HCWhas confirmed that CB is still being treated as the prime and only suspect in the Madeleine McCann case for starters. They say there is evidence, you say there is not. I know whose opinion I value more on the matter and it’s not yours. And finally, to your last point - can I refer you to the words of mine you quoted and highlighted in bold and agreed with so adamantly reply #714 , there is your answer.
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The fact that Operation Grange is still being funded and that HCWhas confirmed that CB is still being treated as the prime and only suspect in the Madeleine McCann case for starters. They say there is evidence, you say there is not. I know whose opinion I value more on the matter and it’s not yours. And finally, to your last point - can I refer you to the words of mine you quoted and highlighted in bold and agreed with so adamantly reply #714 , there is your answer.
HCWhas confirmed that CB is still being treated as the prime and only suspect in the Madeleine McCann case for starters. They say there is evidence,
Oh right..............so if that's the case who are O. G. investigating then.
If HCW has has the evidence...to charge CB,
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HCWhas confirmed that CB is still being treated as the prime and only suspect in the Madeleine McCann case for starters. They say there is evidence,
Oh right..............so if that's the case who are O. G. investigating then.
If HCW has has the evidence...to charge CB,
I have no idea what OG are investigating specifically but they have I believe expressed support for the German investigation so perhaps they are offering support in their efforts?
Your last sentence makes no sense. What are you trying to say?
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I remain stunned by the fact that The Judges didn't even convict Breuckner for The Child Abuse Cases. Or would they prefer that an Appeal Court did that?
Under Age and No Voice. This stinks. This is Open License for the future.
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Perhaps the evidence presented was nowhere as robust as was portrayed in the media.
The same may be true in Madeleine's case.
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Perhaps the evidence presented was nowhere as robust as was portrayed in the media.
The same may be true in Madeleine's case.
I am not interested in Madeleine's Case at the moment.
But I am interested in a known and convicted paedophile being protected when it comes to small children, who don't deserve protection it seems, even in a Children's Play Park.
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I am not interested in Madeleine's Case at the moment.
But I am interested in a known and convicted paedophile being protected when it comes to small children, who don't deserve protection it seems, even in a Children's Play Park.
The point remains, maybe the stories put about in the media don't exactly match the evidence.
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The point remains, maybe the stories put about in the media don't exactly match the evidence.
Either they do or they don't. But Brueckner was arrested by a Portuguese Police Woman on one of these occasions and there were other witnesses. Brueckner is dangerous.
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Why hasn’t he been charged with possessing child porn images? I know you only get a slap on the wrist for it these days but surely there’s enough evidence for this charge to stick? Or is it “case dismissed “ because of the way the evidence was obtained? In any case CB’s fan club need reminding that this is a man who collected thousands of depraved images of children for his own use and to share on the dark web so they might want to ask themselves why they are so apparently smug about him evading justice for these crimes.
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The point remains, maybe the stories put about in the media don't exactly match the evidence.
The evidence was presented in court. Are you claiming the media misreported what was given in evidence?
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Either they do or they don't. But Brueckner was arrested by a Portuguese Police Woman on one of these occasions and there were other witnesses. Brueckner is dangerous.
Imagine if, instead of it being CB, the exact same set of crimes were alleged to have been committed by one of the Tapas 7. I mean as far as most sceptics are concerned the “crime” of twiddling a nipple in front of friends and family is enough to damn a man to everlasting online accusations of involvement in a child’s death, yet when a convicted rapist and child abuser is accused (and found not guilty) of said crimes we are supposed to simply forgive, forget and return our focus to the evil nipple twiddler and his mates, because the evidence there is soooooo much much more compelling . Massive double standards at work as always.
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I have no idea what OG are investigating specifically but they have I believe expressed support for the German investigation so perhaps they are offering support in their efforts?
Your last sentence makes no sense. What are you trying to say?
What are you trying to say....more like
Three police forces disagree with your (uninformed) assessment.
How do you know if you don't know what they are investigating.
Your posts are the ones that don't make sense.
They say there is evidence, you say there is not.
If they have evidence ...why haven't they charged him ...
soz thought i posted this yesterday.
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Imagine if, instead of it being CB, the exact same set of crimes were alleged to have been committed by one of the Tapas 7. I mean as far as most sceptics are concerned the “crime” of twiddling a nipple in front of friends and family is enough to damn a man to everlasting online accusations of involvement in a child’s death, yet when a convicted rapist and child abuser is accused (and found not guilty) of said crimes we are supposed to simply forgive, forget and return our focus to the evil nipple twiddler and his mates, because the evidence there is soooooo much much more compelling . Massive double standards at work as always.
I think its your post that has the massive double standards it disgusting..
If you think that was ok what he did. in front of children...[makes u wonder what sort of adults they all were]
Wonder why the mccs never suspected any of them 7 even though some they barely knew.
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What are you trying to say....more like
Three police forces disagree with your (uninformed) assessment.
How do you know if you don't know what they are investigating.
Your posts are the ones that don't make sense.
They say there is evidence, you say there is not.
If they have evidence ...why haven't they charged him ...
soz thought i posted this yesterday.
Oh dear, round and round in circles we go.
Firstly the last sentence of your previous post made no sense. That is a fact. What were you trying to say? You may not understand my posts but they are at least written in full sentences and are largely grammatically correct.
Secondly, how do I know that three police forces don’t agree with your assessment that the McCanns hid their child’s body? Umm…perhaps because the McCanns are not being investigated for her disappearance and Christian Bruckner is, that’s quite a big clue.
Thirdly, “if they have evidence, why don’t they charge him” once again I refer to my post #713, the one you appeared to understand at the time but perhaps you need reminding? Go back and read it, and also your reply to that post, then perhaps the penny will finally drop.
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I think its your post that has the massive double standards it disgusting..
If you think that was ok what he did. in front of children...[makes u wonder what sort of adults they all were]
Wonder why the mccs never suspected any of them 7 even though some they barely knew.
LOL, thanks for proving my point. Nipple twiddling = disgusting, depraved, shocking outrageous when it’s a member of the McCanns circle. Rape, child sex abuse, images of child pornography on USB stick buried under a dead dog = not a single word of outrage or disgust or censure when it’s carried out by Sceptics’ favourite paedo CB. Is getting your dick out in front of little kids ok Kizzy? According to the German courts it is, what say you?
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LOL, thanks for proving my point. Nipple twiddling = disgusting, depraved, shocking outrageous when it’s a member of the McCanns circle. Rape, child sex abuse, images of child pornography on USB stick buried under a dead dog = not a single word of outrage or disgust or censure when it’s carried out by Sceptics’ favourite paedo CB. Is getting your dick out in front of little kids ok Kizzy? According to the German courts it is, what say you?
The German court who were in possession of ALL the evidence were quite satisfied Brueckner didn't commit any offence. The fact that you don't agree with their verdict, without having heard ALL ( which needs to be written in capital letters for some reason) the evidence, doesn't make it wrong.
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Why hasn’t he been charged with possessing child porn images? I know you only get a slap on the wrist for it these days but surely there’s enough evidence for this charge to stick? Or is it “case dismissed “ because of the way the evidence was obtained? In any case CB’s fan club need reminding that this is a man who collected thousands of depraved images of children for his own use and to share on the dark web so they might want to ask themselves why they are so apparently smug about him evading justice for these crimes.
Because McCann supporters don't like Christian Brueckner. I am therefore obliged to like him & excuse his 'alleged' sexual offences & support his right to the presumption of innocence just as much as you do the McCanns. Now if you wouldn't mind, please stop accusing Brueckner of offences he didn't commit BY LAW, respect his innocence & stop defaming him with your libellous accusations. It is against forum rules.
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The point remains, maybe the stories put about in the media don't exactly match the evidence.
Certainly some tall stories have been told. Jon Clarke claimed that a partial finger print belonging to Brueckner was found on a knife at the Hazel B 'alleged' crime scene. This was never reported on during the trial or in any other media. Either someone in German law enforcement was feeding him rubbish or he himself made the whole thing up.
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Certainly some tall stories have been told. Jon Clarke claimed that a partial finger print belonging to Brueckner was found on a knife at the Hazel B 'alleged' crime scene. This was never reported on during the trial or in any other media. Either someone in German law enforcement was feeding him rubbish or he himself made the whole thing up.
Bottom line is, HCW played his hand. If 'evidence' wasn't presented at this most recent trial, it's not to keep it in his arse pocket for a future charge for something different, it means it doesn't exist or it's been ruled out as inadequate.
Try nailing CB with images of abuse if it wasn't found on his person or doesn't have any corroborative evidence, foresic or otherwise, linking it to him aside from hearsay.
The magic knife either never existed or the partial print isn't his.
This is also a case of all witness testimony used at the trial is fruit from the poisionous tree; tainted by mid-trial untruths being uncovered, thus the whole barrel is rotten.
It's the very definition of a legal busted flush. How it got to trial is anyone's guess, given the notoriously high bar apparently in place for pre-charge screening in Germany. They are very proud of their conviction rate.
Let's not forget one opf the judges warned everyone mid-trial that the trial was a sham due to the paucity of evidence - it was that bad, almost unprecedented.
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Quote from John [page 8]
So are we all agreed that we have learned very little in the past 16 years about Madeleine's disappearance?
I believe this seems the case today.
It also seems on YouTube and elsewhere more people are questioning the mccs account of events.
https://madeleinemccannaffair.blogspot.com/2009/08/policemens-tales.html
Interesting read ...of observations of those first on the scene when Maddie was eventually reported missing.
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Ooh yes let’s all start re-reading ancient blogs by anonymous “sauces”, I’m sure they’ll tell us everything we want to hear and more about whooshing curtains, flip-flops and eggmen, the praying like Arabs, the swearing on the airport bus, not to mention those dastardly smiles and balloons outside the church. Did I mention the lichen on the windowsill and the change of earrings? The damning evidence is all there!
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Ooh yes let’s all start re-reading ancient blogs by anonymous “sauces”, I’m sure they’ll tell us everything we want to hear and more about whooshing curtains, flip-flops and eggmen, the praying like Arabs, the swearing on the airport bus, not to mention those dastardly smiles and balloons outside the church. Did I mention the lichen on the windowsill and the change of earrings? The damning evidence is all there!
Why don't you let us know then all the evidence you know about CB being an abductor.
Or even have proof there was an abduction....apart though from say so accounts or verbal
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Why don't you let us know then all the evidence you know about CB being an abductor.
Or even have proof there was an abduction....apart though from say so accounts or verbal
If I knew ALL thr evidence I’d be sure to tell you. I do however only know about the evidence which has been reported in the media, and there is sufficient for me to form the opinion that he is a strong suspect. Now, feel free to dismiss that evidence and concentrate on all the evidence which you believe points to the McCanns and I will dismiss it all as easily as you dismiss the evidence against Bruckner. Funnily enough the law enforcement professionals all seem to agree with my position on this too, must be a big international conspiracy to protect the McCanns I expect.
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Because McCann supporters don't like Christian Brueckner. I am therefore obliged to like him & excuse his 'alleged' sexual offences & support his right to the presumption of innocence just as much as you do the McCanns. Now if you wouldn't mind, please stop accusing Brueckner of offences he didn't commit BY LAW, respect his innocence & stop defaming him with your libellous accusations. It is against forum rules.
Hypocrite.
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Hypocrite.
And idiot (the troll, not you). It is not libellous to refer to Bruckner as a criminal, a rapist, a paedophile and an abuser and I will continue to refer to him as such as legally he has been found to be all of those things. Libel is when you tell lies about someone and I haven’t told any lies about that odious creep.
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And idiot (the troll, not you). It is not libellous to refer to Bruckner as a criminal, a rapist, a paedophile and an abuser and I will continue to refer to him as such as legally he has been found to be all of those things. Libel is when you tell lies about someone and I haven’t told any lies about that odious creep.
Yes, he is a rapist, but he didn't rape Hazel B, nor did he indecently expose himself in a children's playground. He's been tried & found not guilty of both alleged acts & it's completely wrong to accuse him of being guilty of such.
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He is also to be presumed innocent of any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. He is precisely the same level of innocence as the McCanns are. So enough accusing him of murdering Maddie. It is libel.
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He is also to be presumed innocent of any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. He is precisely the same level of innocence as the McCanns are. So enough accusing him of murdering Maddie. It is libel.
Be very careful of what you say from now on.
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Why don't you let us know then all the evidence you know about CB being an abductor.
Or even have proof there was an abduction....apart though from say so accounts or verbal
That's all there is. Brueckner 'confessed' to Helge Bushcing & some other crook. There's no dna, no forensics, nothing material, just bogus confessions. VS will never accept this though, even though it's obvious to the rest of the world that that is all Wolters has. Hobo Jackanory, as the General said.
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Be very careful of what you say from now on.
I'm always careful. I usually do a quick spell check before I post that Martin Smith didn't identify Brueckner.
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It’s not libellous to say I view CB as a strong suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I have never stated he murdered her, but in my opinion it’s quite likely he did. I would suggest reporting this post if voicing the exact same opinion that HCW has voiced in the world’s media is breaking UK law. @)(++(*
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It’s not libellous to say I view CB as a strong suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I have never stated he murdered her, but in my opinion it’s quite likely he did. I would suggest reporting this post if voicing the exact same opinion that HCW has voiced in the world’s media is breaking UK law. @)(++(*
What evidence do you have that Brueckner murdered Maddie?
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I mean, personally, I believe the McCanns were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance based on eye witness testimony. So my belief is supported by evidence. What evidence convinces you that Brueckner murdered Maddie?
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It’s not libellous to say I view CB as a strong suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I have never stated he murdered her, but in my opinion it’s quite likely he did. I would suggest reporting this post if voicing the exact same opinion that HCW has voiced in the world’s media is breaking UK law. @)(++(*
What HCW has done IS libel. Unless I'm free to go on national television, accuse the McCanns of being murderers & then present no evidence of such. No? Oh, why's that? Because it would be libellous. That's why.
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Libel Schmibel. I seem to recall some fat old Portuguese copper wrote a bestselling book in which he accused the McCanns and their friends of lies, deception and much worse, and made a video and a career out of pointing the finger at them and that was all perfectly ok according to the ECHR. I have never libelled CB and the troll can do one, it’s getting boring now.
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Libel Schmibel. I seem to recall some fat old Portuguese copper wrote a bestselling book in which he accused the McCanns and their friends of lies, deception and much worse, and made a video and a career out of pointing the finger at them and that was all perfectly ok according to the ECHR. I have never libelled CB and the troll can do one, it’s getting boring now.
Yes. The evidence was presented at the ECHR & dismissed. Funnily enough, a libel trial is the only way the evidence against Brueckner will ever see the inside of a courtroom.
Anyway, I was very sad to read that John Canaan died recently. Another man falsely accused of murder.
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Libel Schmibel. I seem to recall some fat old Portuguese copper wrote a bestselling book in which he accused the McCanns and their friends of lies, deception and much worse, and made a video and a career out of pointing the finger at them and that was all perfectly ok according to the ECHR. I have never libelled CB and the troll can do one, it’s getting boring now.
Anyway, I'm glad you mentioned Amaral, he hasn't been spoken of lately. McCann supporters were up in arms for years with the fact that he accused the McCanns without evidence, & yet, when HCW commits the same atrocity against Christian Brueckner, you're reaction is Meh, whatever.
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I think something that we've learned over the 16 years is that the McCann's did in fact 'get away with it', IMHAHAEO. That much is plain now.
The fact that bodily fluid containing DNA that was 'very likely'* to come from MM was found behind the couch in 5a is even enough evidence alone to tip the balance.
*15 of the commonly picked markers were a match.
I can't see this post staying up for long. Anyway...https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13940555/There-lot-people-think-parents-involved-Maddie-case-Christian-Brueckner-lawyers-cruel-jibe-Gerry-Kate-McCann-chief-suspect-cleared-rape-charges.html
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The troll has at least written something revealing in one of his posts above when he wrote that it was a “fact that Amaral accused the McCanns without evidence”. A a subconscious admission of what we all know to be true whether we can admit it to ourselves or not.
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I can't see this post staying up for long. Anyway...https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13940555/There-lot-people-think-parents-involved-Maddie-case-Christian-Brueckner-lawyers-cruel-jibe-Gerry-Kate-McCann-chief-suspect-cleared-rape-charges.html
The Daily Mail appears to be the only outlet that had the balls to repeat these comments made by Brueckner's lawyer.
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The troll has at least written something revealing in one of his posts above when he wrote that it was a “fact that Amaral accused the McCanns without evidence”. A a subconscious admission of what we all know to be true whether we can admit it to ourselves or not.
Yeah, that was a mistake. I forgot momentarily that Martin Smiths eye witness account is evidence.
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The Daily Mail appears to be the only outlet that had the balls to repeat these comments made by Brueckner's lawyer.
My mistake. The Times also carried these comments.
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My mistake. The Times also carried these comments.
Including the scathing eviceration of HCW by Judge Engemann almost verbatim.
Essentially he ruined the trial, although it's clear the right verdict was reached, thankfully.
His chances of getting an appeal evaporated with the judge's closing comments.
The chances of the HCW / the media / the McCann's pinning the abduction of MM on CB went at the exact same moment.
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If I knew ALL thr evidence I’d be sure to tell you. I do however only know about the evidence which has been reported in the media, and there is sufficient for me to form the opinion that he is a strong suspect. Now, feel free to dismiss that evidence and concentrate on all the evidence which you believe points to the McCanns and I will dismiss it all as easily as you dismiss the evidence against Bruckner. Funnily enough the law enforcement professionals all seem to agree with my position on this too, must be a big international conspiracy to protect the McCanns I expect.
I do however only know about the evidence which has been reported in the media, and there is sufficient for me to form the opinion that he is a strong suspect.
Well that says it all really MSM evidence not worth the paper its written on....not exactly concrete is it.
Funnily enough the law enforcement professionals all seem to agree with my position on this too,
What IYO are O.G. still being funded for who are they looking for....
Why are they still being funded if they think HCW has enough evidence.
If IYO HCW has evidence C.B. is the so called abductor.
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Libel Schmibel. I seem to recall some fat old Portuguese copper wrote a bestselling book in which he accused the McCanns and their friends of lies, deception and much worse, and made a video and a career out of pointing the finger at them and that was all perfectly ok according to the ECHR. I have never libelled CB and the troll can do one, it’s getting boring now.
Why in your posts do you call members trolls... when it seems in your posts you come across as one yourself.
Your post seems very bitter as if it affected you personally.
The thing here is though ...G.A. hasn't been proved wrong has he.
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Including the scathing eviceration of HCW by Judge Engemann almost verbatim.
Essentially he ruined the trial, although it's clear the right verdict was reached, thankfully.
His chances of getting an appeal evaporated with the judge's closing comments.
The chances of the HCW / the media / the McCann's pinning the abduction of MM on CB went at the exact same moment.
I remember before the trial saying how Wolters comments could influence the judge. What I hadn't factored in was how Wolters branding of Brueckner as a monster could also influence the witnesses. Yes, any hope of a future trial has been destroyed by Wolters himself. What an excellent prosecutor he is @)(++(*
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Furthermore, I have to wonder if Hazel B still thinks it was a good idea to have given her evidence to all the tabloids before ever presenting it in court?
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Why in your posts do you call members trolls... when it seems in your posts you come across as one yourself.
Your post seems very bitter as if it affected you personally.
The thing here is though ...G.A. hasn't been proved wrong has he.
Oh well if he hasn’t been proved wrong then of course he must be right, la. The problem is though that HCW hasn’t been proved wrong with regard to CB murdering Madeleine either so he must be right as well. What a dilemma.
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I do however only know about the evidence which has been reported in the media, and there is sufficient for me to form the opinion that he is a strong suspect.
Well that says it all really MSM evidence not worth the paper its written on....not exactly concrete is it.
Funnily enough the law enforcement professionals all seem to agree with my position on this too,
What IYO are O.G. still being funded for who are they looking for....
Why are they still being funded if they think HCW has enough evidence.
If IYO HCW has evidence C.B. is the so called abductor.
The MSM quoted HCW directly, and I have seen him corroborate these reports in his own words so yes, whilst I know it’s very fashionable to sneer at the “MSM” as being not worth the paper blah blah blah, in this instance yes it is, and certainly at least as reliable if not infinitely more so than some random ten year old blog by some anonymous writer.
I’ve already addressed the rest of your questions in earlier posts when I said I don’t know what they are investigating but would think they are acting in a supporting role to the German investigation. I don’t think I have ever claimed that HCW has enough evidence, I would imagime that there is currently not enough to ensure a conviction beyond reasonable doubt.
Would you not like to see CB put on trial for this crime so that the evidence can be tested in court? If so you should be hoping that the German investigation finally gets to that point, but somehow I get the feeling you would prefer they simply gave up now and admitted defeat. The thing is though, if it never goes to court CB will never be cleared, and as you sceptics like to keep banging on about the McCanns never having been cleared as if that somehow makes them guilty, the same thing will apply to CB.
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Furthermore, I have to wonder if Hazel B still thinks it was a good idea to have given her evidence to all the tabloids before ever presenting it in court?
As it has obviously festered within her for 20 years, its probably better out than in.
Whether it was legally advisable is another matter.
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As it has obviously festered within her for 20 years, its probably better out than in.
Whether it was legally advisable is another matter.
She didn't just shoot herself in the foot. She blew her whole leg clean off. In My Opinion.
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The MSM quoted HCW directly, and I have seen him corroborate these reports in his own words so yes, whilst I know it’s very fashionable to sneer at the “MSM” as being not worth the paper blah blah blah, in this instance yes it is, and certainly at least as reliable if not infinitely more so than some random ten year old blog by some anonymous writer.
I’ve already addressed the rest of your questions in earlier posts when I said I don’t know what they are investigating but would think they are acting in a supporting role to the German investigation. I don’t think I have ever claimed that HCW has enough evidence, I would imagime that there is currently not enough to ensure a conviction beyond reasonable doubt.
Would you not like to see CB put on trial for this crime so that the evidence can be tested in court? If so you should be hoping that the German investigation finally gets to that point, but somehow I get the feeling you would prefer they simply gave up now and admitted defeat. The thing is though, if it never goes to court CB will never be cleared, and as you sceptics like to keep banging on about the McCanns never having been cleared as if that somehow makes them guilty, the same thing will apply to CB.
The MSM quoted HCW directly, and I have seen him corroborate these reports in his own words
Words means nothing ......Its evidence he is struggling with it seems....even circumstantial.
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The MSM quoted HCW directly, and I have seen him corroborate these reports in his own words
Words means nothing ......Its evidence he is struggling with it seems....even circumstantial.
But you would like to see CB stand trial so all the evidence can be revealed tested in court wouldn’t you?
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But you would like to see CB stand trial so all the evidence can be revealed tested in court wouldn’t you?
I'm not sure that's such a good idea, judging by how well the prosecution did in the last trial.
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Without a trial there is no chance of this case being resolved.
Even with a trial there may be no resolution, but at least we can see the evidence supporting the prosecution case.
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The MSM quoted HCW directly, and I have seen him corroborate these reports in his own words
Words means nothing ......Its evidence he is struggling with it seems....even circumstantial.
The McCann's did not kill their daughter. There isn't even circumstantial evidence to suggest that they did. Goncalo Amaral who was already corrupt on more than one count was the one who kicked this off. Although why anyone believed him remains a mystery to me.
I did so love Portugal back in the days before this happened, although I was aware of what The Pj were all about. But it wasn't my problem, sad to say.
I Could tell you a tale that might have mattered to Portugal. But they never saw the end of Salazar. And so there alws was so much more to this. Amaral was a PJ Officer, raised during The Salazar Regime and indoctrinated. They' were always right, they thought.
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Without a trial there is no chance of this case being resolved.
Even with a trial there may be no resolution, but at least we can see the evidence supporting the prosecution case.
We've already seen it. The evidence against CB consists of his bogus murder confessions. That's it. That's all there is. No dna, forensic, nothing of actual substance, no paedo photos, no connection to Hazel B, as Mr Gray imagined. Only witness statements from career criminals. Which explains quite easily why he hasn't been & will never be charged.
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The McCann's did not kill their daughter. There isn't even circumstantial evidence to suggest that they did. Goncalo Amaral who was already corrupt on more than one count was the one who kicked this off. Although why anyone believed him remains a mystery to me.
I did so love Portugal back in the days before this happened, although I was aware of what The Pj were all about. But it wasn't my problem, sad to say.
I Could tell you a tale that might have mattered to Portugal. But they never saw the end of Salazar. And so there alws was so much more to this. Amaral was a PJ Officer, raised during The Salazar Regime and indoctrinated. They' were always right, they thought.
Since when did Amaral accuse the McCanns of killing Maddie? I don't remember reading that in his book.
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We've already seen it. The evidence against CB consists of his bogus murder confessions. That's it. That's all there is. No dna, forensic, nothing of actual substance, no paedo photos, no connection to Hazel B, as Mr Gray imagined. Only witness statements from career criminals. Which explains quite easily why he hasn't been & will never be charged.
.....No sightings of Brueckner carrying the inert Maddie away from the scene.
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Without a trial there is no chance of this case being resolved.
Even with a trial there may be no resolution, but at least we can see the evidence supporting the prosecution case.
Exactly. Both sides of the argument should be in agreement about this I would have thought.
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We've already seen it. The evidence against CB consists of his bogus murder confessions. That's it. That's all there is. No dna, forensic, nothing of actual substance, no paedo photos, no connection to Hazel B, as Mr Gray imagined. Only witness statements from career criminals. Which explains quite easily why he hasn't been & will never be charged.
There was no confession to murder. It was the witness that said that he believed that Brueckner had killed MM, not Brueckner saying it.
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There was no confession to murder. It was the witness that said that he believed that Brueckner had killed MM, not Brueckner saying it.
I must have been reading about a different trial, Brueckners cell mate claimed he confessed to abducting a child & burying it. iirc
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There was no confession to murder. It was the witness that said that he believed that Brueckner had killed MM, not Brueckner saying it.
Bruckner allegedly told a fellow inmate that he had committed several rapes in Hanover and had kidnapped a child in Portugal. This evidence was heard in court and probably will be again if and when CB is brought to trial for Madeleine’s disappearance.
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But you would like to see CB stand trial so all the evidence can be revealed tested in court wouldn’t you?
No, because there is no evidence obviously.
remember this
Madeleine McCann police 'have enough evidence to charge suspect with abduction and murder'
Christian Hoppe, director of Germany's National Crime Agency, said police think they have enough evidence to charge the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance with murdering her
By Jeremy Armstrong & Martin Fricker
21:49, 3 JUN 2020 UPDATED 22:11, 3 JUN 2020
The only link with CB to Maddie...is the word suspect
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The McCann's did not kill their daughter. There isn't even circumstantial evidence to suggest that they did. Goncalo Amaral who was already corrupt on more than one count was the one who kicked this off. Although why anyone believed him remains a mystery to me.
I did so love Portugal back in the days before this happened, although I was aware of what The Pj were all about. But it wasn't my problem, sad to say.
I Could tell you a tale that might have mattered to Portugal. But they never saw the end of Salazar. And so there alws was so much more to this. Amaral was a PJ Officer, raised during The Salazar Regime and indoctrinated. They' were always right, they thought.
Well, No
The ones that kicked all this off in the first place was the mccs....
I actually think what he did do wrong was....... he didn't look at them close enough in the beginning.
I have always thought booze and small children ...don't mix.
why was they taken on an adult holiday.
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No, because there is no evidence obviously.
remember this
Madeleine McCann police 'have enough evidence to charge suspect with abduction and murder'
Christian Hoppe, director of Germany's National Crime Agency, said police think they have enough evidence to charge the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance with murdering her
By Jeremy Armstrong & Martin Fricker
21:49, 3 JUN 2020 UPDATED 22:11, 3 JUN 2020
The only link with CB to Maddie...is the word suspect
There must be some evidence, otherwise he wouldn't be a suspect.
However that evidence clearly isn't very strong and might even be completely false, but only a trial will establish this.
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There must be some evidence, otherwise he wouldn't be a suspect.
However that evidence clearly isn't very strong and might even be completely false, but only a trial will establish this.
Maybe so.....but I dont think there is ever going to be a trial.
As in my pervious post they have been saying they have evidence since 2020.
Madeleine McCann police 'have enough evidence to charge suspect with abduction and murder'
well seems we wont have to wait another 4+ years
if they are going to charge CB it will have to be soon according to CB lawyer he could be back on the streets as early as spring.
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No, because there is no evidence obviously.
remember this
Madeleine McCann police 'have enough evidence to charge suspect with abduction and murder'
Christian Hoppe, director of Germany's National Crime Agency, said police think they have enough evidence to charge the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance with murdering her
By Jeremy Armstrong & Martin Fricker
21:49, 3 JUN 2020 UPDATED 22:11, 3 JUN 2020
The only link with CB to Maddie...is the word suspect
As I suspected and thanks for confirming. If CB is never tried for the crime of abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann then he will never be clearerd and will always be considered the culprit by many, no matter how scant the evidence is. That’s something the McCanns have had to endure too of course, but I’d be willing to wager a largish bet that if the public were asked in a survey now what they think happened to Madeleine McCann more would say “abducted and murdered by Bruckner “ than “dumped in a bin by Gerry McCann”. I think it would be a tragedy on top of tragedy if this case is never heard in court and can see no reason why anyone would actively hope that the German investigation fails to solve the crime and bring a successful prosecution.
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Well, No
The ones that kicked all this off in the first place was the mccs....
I actually think what he did do wrong was....... he didn't look at them close enough in the beginning.
I have always thought booze and small children ...don't mix.
why was they taken on an adult holiday.
What gave you the impression it was an adult holiday? And what has booze got to do with anything? Certainly booze and conducting a police investigation don’t mix, maybe that’s why the Portuguese investigation was so slipshod,if the extended lunch breaks by PJ plod were anything to go by.
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As I suspected and thanks for confirming. If CB is never tried for the crime of abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann then he will never be clearerd and will always be considered the culprit by many, no matter how scant the evidence is. That’s something the McCanns have had to endure too of course, but I’d be willing to wager a largish bet that if the public were asked in a survey now what they think happened to Madeleine McCann more would say “abducted and murdered by Bruckner “ than “dumped in a bin by Gerry McCann”. I think it would be a tragedy on top of tragedy if this case is never heard in court and can see no reason why anyone would actively hope that the German investigation fails to solve the crime and bring a successful prosecution.
Yes Brueckner should be tried based on evidence so scant that there are more sightings of Gerry abducting Maddie than there are Brueckner.
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Maybe so.....but I dont think there is ever going to be a trial.
As in my pervious post they have been saying they have evidence since 2020.
Madeleine McCann police 'have enough evidence to charge suspect with abduction and murder'
well seems we wont have to wait another 4+ years
if they are going to charge CB it will have to be soon according to CB lawyer he could be back on the streets as early as spring.
I find it curious that Maddies murderer (as agreed by the three expert investigative forces based on ALL the evidence) could be out on day release within a matter of weeks, & yet the McCanns have absolutely nothing to say about this? Maybe they got better legal advice than Hazel B...
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As I suspected and thanks for confirming. If CB is never tried for the crime of abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann then he will never be clearerd and will always be considered the culprit by many, no matter how scant the evidence is. That’s something the McCanns have had to endure too of course, but I’d be willing to wager a largish bet that if the public were asked in a survey now what they think happened to Madeleine McCann more would say “abducted and murdered by Bruckner “ than “dumped in a bin by Gerry McCann”. I think it would be a tragedy on top of tragedy if this case is never heard in court and can see no reason why anyone would actively hope that the German investigation fails to solve the crime and bring a successful prosecution.
Well, your entitled to your opinion...but
IMO, he will be cleared...because HCW has no evedence its the profile they are trying to fit ..not the crime.
By the way....still no evidence of abduction...that would have to be proved that CB commited perfect crime in the so called abduction.
Wishful thinking the public think Maddie was abducted....
You only had to read the thousands of comments on MSM articles to see what the public thought...even to the point comments are no longer allowed.
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What gave you the impression it was an adult holiday? And what has booze got to do with anything? Certainly booze and conducting a police investigation don’t mix, maybe that’s why the Portuguese investigation was so slipshod,if the extended lunch breaks by PJ plod were anything to go by.
What gave you the impression it was an adult holiday?
What gives you the impression it wasnt.
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I find it curious that Maddies murderer (as agreed by the three expert investigative forces based on ALL the evidence) could be out on day release within a matter of weeks, & yet the McCanns have absolutely nothing to say about this? Maybe they got better legal advice than Hazel B...
could be out on day release within a matter of weeks,
Good point.
It would be interesting . what HCW reaction or words would be if...CB did end up back on the streets.
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Well, your entitled to your opinion...but
IMO, he will be cleared...because HCW has no evedence its the profile they are trying to fit ..not the crime.
By the way....still no evidence of abduction...that would have to be proved that CB commited perfect crime in the so called abduction.
Wishful thinking the public think Maddie was abducted....
You only had to read the thousands of comments on MSM articles to see what the public thought...even to the point comments are no longer allowed.
The profiling of a paedophile is interesting when there is no evidence that Madeleine was a victim of paedophilia.
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Well, your entitled to your opinion...but
IMO, he will be cleared...because HCW has no evedence its the profile they are trying to fit ..not the crime.
By the way....still no evidence of abduction...that would have to be proved that CB commited perfect crime in the so called abduction.
Wishful thinking the public think Maddie was abducted....
You only had to read the thousands of comments on MSM articles to see what the public thought...even to the point comments are no longer allowed.
He can’t be cleared without a trial. You don’t want there to be a trial to hear the evidence against him. He will therefore always be the prime suspect in this case, unless someone else is convicted of the crime (highly unlikely that’s ever going to happen). Comments on social media do not represent overall public opinion, this can be seen time and again on other conspiracy subjects.
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What gave you the impression it was an adult holiday?
What gives you the impression it wasnt.
The fact that there were numerous children in the holiday party and the holiday was held at a family friendly resort and not an adults only hotel.
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could be out on day release within a matter of weeks,
Good point.
It would be interesting . what HCW reaction or words would be if...CB did end up back on the streets.
What would your reaction be? Would you be pleased?
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The profiling of a paedophile is interesting when there is no evidence that Madeleine was a victim of paedophilia.
When children vanishes mysteriously in the middle of the night from their beds it is quite often the case that sexual abuse is a key motivating factor in the disappearance. It is not unreasonable to assume that if Madeleine was abducted (which is the only plausible and logical explanation for her disappearance, an opinion apparently shared by all those who have been investigating her disappearance for the last 10+ years) that her abductor did so for his own perverted pleasure.
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The fact that there were numerous children in the holiday party and the holiday was held at a family friendly resort and not an adults only hotel.
I never mentioned an adult only Hotel.
The amount of time the mccs spent with the children .........the children may as well not have been there
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What would your reaction be? Would you be pleased?
Stupid posts .......dont deserve an answer.
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Can we please try to keep this polite.
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He can’t be cleared without a trial. You don’t want there to be a trial to hear the evidence against him. He will therefore always be the prime suspect in this case, unless someone else is convicted of the crime (highly unlikely that’s ever going to happen). Comments on social media do not represent overall public opinion, this can be seen time and again on other conspiracy subjects.
So in yur opinion ...same status as the mccs.
I beileve comments on social media do represent the public and what is thought about the mccs story of events.
It seems the overall public are not really interested in the mccs...an are not veryhappy about the funding each year.
just a couple out of thousands....all more or less saying the same thing...
10,824 Comments
Who leaves three children under the age of 5 alone in a ground floor hotel room with open doors and windows in a foreign country?
Your child goes missing ,but you run out of the apartment and leave your other children in the apartment . NO I DON'T THINK SO
How did they get this one so so wrong? Have to wonder! Take a look at the evidence, the changes in story to fit the narrative, the cadaver dogs evidence, inconsistencies in the tapas 9 statements, their behaviour, their refusal to answer 47 of 48 questions posed by Portuguese police. Statement analysis, body language. They had body language and PR advisors from the first interview telling them how should be behaving and what not to do. Look at the whole. There is not one thing to point the evidence to a vanishing perpetrator.
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I never mentioned an adult only Hotel.
The amount of time the mccs spent with the children .........the children may as well not have been there
It wasn’t an adult holiday.
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Stupid posts .......dont deserve an answer.
It was stupid to wonder what HCW’s reaction would be to CB being released from prison then. The answer’s pretty obvious don’t you think?
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So in yur opinion ...same status as the mccs.
I beileve comments on social media do represent the public and what is thought about the mccs story of events.
It seems the overall public are not really interested in the mccs...an are not veryhappy about the funding each year.
just a couple out of thousands....all more or less saying the same thing...
10,824 Comments
Who leaves three children under the age of 5 alone in a ground floor hotel room with open doors and windows in a foreign country?
Your child goes missing ,but you run out of the apartment and leave your other children in the apartment . NO I DON'T THINK SO
How did they get this one so so wrong? Have to wonder! Take a look at the evidence, the changes in story to fit the narrative, the cadaver dogs evidence, inconsistencies in the tapas 9 statements, their behaviour, their refusal to answer 47 of 48 questions posed by Portuguese police. Statement analysis, body language. They had body language and PR advisors from the first interview telling them how should be behaving and what not to do. Look at the whole. There is not one thing to point the evidence to a vanishing perpetrator.
Let’s have the link.
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In my opinion many McCann sceptics will be pleased if and when Bruckner is released from prison. Many see him as a victim, as a man greatly wronged by the German prosecution service, and by HCW in particular. They know that his release would be a real slap in HCW’s face and that is something I believe would give them great pleasure. They also think (for some bizarre reason) that CB’s release means the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance would have to go back to square one and that the police might have to start investigating the parents again despite this being completely illogical and bonkers thinking.
Some McCann sceptics don’t even think CB is that bad of a guy anyway. They think he was framed for the rape of the American woman and as for his crimes against children, well they weren’t THAT bad after all, and getting your genitals out for a wee in front of random children is apparently legally permissable now so…give the guy a break right? I’ve read so many posts downplaying the seriousness of this man’s crimes on here alone so no I don’t think it’s at all stupid to ask sceptics if they would be pleased to see Bruckner being released. I genuinely think some would be delighted.
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Let’s have the link.
Learn to read body language...interesting...good you asked for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPUuS3S1rQ
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In my opinion many McCann sceptics will be pleased if and when Bruckner is released from prison. Many see him as a victim, as a man greatly wronged by the German prosecution service, and by HCW in particular. They know that his release would be a real slap in HCW’s face and that is something I believe would give them great pleasure. They also think (for some bizarre reason) that CB’s release means the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance would have to go back to square one and that the police might have to start investigating the parents again despite this being completely illogical and bonkers thinking.
Some McCann sceptics don’t even think CB is that bad of a guy anyway. They think he was framed for the rape of the American woman and as for his crimes against children, well they weren’t THAT bad after all, and getting your genitals out for a wee in front of random children is apparently legally permissable now so…give the guy a break right? I’ve read so many posts downplaying the seriousness of this man’s crimes on here alone so no I don’t think it’s at all stupid to ask sceptics if they would be pleased to see Bruckner being released. I genuinely think some would be delighted.
Or they might just be thinking this. Enough is Enough...
Enough Is Enough – The Madeleine McCann Case, Its Unspoken Secrets & Why Operation Grange Needs To End Now
However, after years of an investigation riddled with dead ends, millions in public funding, and a recent disappointment in the acquittal of suspect Christian Brueckner in other totally unconnected cases, many are asking the same question: Why does this case continue? Who holds the real answers? And, is there anyone out there who actually knows what happened?
Since her disappearance, the hunt for Madeleine has become one of the longest-running – and shockingly costliest – missing persons investigations in modern history. In the UK alone, an estimated £14 million has been spent by the British government on Operation Grange, the inquiry dedicated exclusively to finding her. And what has this unprecedented spending achieved? Precious little, if anyone were actually honest.
The latest in a long line of “persons of interest,” German national Christian Brueckner, was initially paraded as a suspect by authorities. For years, he was presented as the ultimate suspect, with tantalising hints from investigators that finally, an answer was within reach. Yet, Brueckner was acquitted in another unconnected set of cases, and the public, once again, was left with the bitter aftertaste of a dead end lead. It begs the question: how much longer should this cycle of build-up and disappointment go on?
Red herrings and endless questions – Who knows the truth?
As the Brueckner debacle shows, the investigation has been marred by high-profile suspects who, in the end, turn out to be red herrings. Time after time, public interest is reignited with suggestions of “new leads,” only for hopes to be dashed. One can’t help but wonder: how many people out there actually know the truth? There must be individuals, witnesses, or former suspects who have held pieces of information for years – information that could bring the truth to light. Yet the silence remains deafening.
For instance, many people still believe that multiple individuals connected to Praia da Luz on that fateful night might hold valuable insights. The complex network of witnesses, staff, and even other guests at the resort has never fully been disclosed, creating an air of secrecy. Why hasn’t this circle been fully investigated? Are there people shielding each other, protecting reputations, or perhaps even benefiting from the ambiguity? How many know the truth, and why hasn’t it come out?
The human toll on the McCann family (and the public)
For the McCanns, the reality is one of endless agony and frustration. Kate and Gerry McCann, who once inspired global sympathy, are now met with mixed reactions, often due to the perception that the case has overshadowed other equally tragic disappearances. In many ways, the prolonged investigation has become a burden not only to them but also to the public, who are forced to confront the unsettling realization that justice may never come.
The McCann case has also become a staple of tabloid speculation, with sensationalism often driving the narrative. This has led to endless news cycles, yet almost no new information. We hear about a “breakthrough” only for it to turn out to be irrelevant, as in the case of Brueckner. In the meantime, the families and friends who might genuinely be connected to the case but entirely innocent are hounded by the media and given no peace.
If Brueckner was, indeed, a red herring from day one – as many experts now believe – then why was he pursued so doggedly? Why was so much time and money invested in yet another dead-end? This latest misstep is emblematic of a larger issue within the investigation: a pattern of misdirection, fuelled by sensationalism, that leads nowhere. This mismanagement not only wastes resources but chips away at public faith in the investigation itself.
Christian Brueckner, a convicted criminal in Germany, was publicly labelled as a major suspect, with authorities insinuating that the case’s resolution was closer than ever. For months, the public followed the hints and statements, believing this might be the moment of closure. And yet, with Brueckner’s recent acquittal in Germany
in a separate set of cases, the Madeleine McCann case seems as lost as it did in 2007.
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Learn to read body language...interesting...good you asked for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPUuS3S1rQ
Oh dear. LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
https://www.wired.com/story/youtube-body-language/
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Or they might just be thinking this. Enough is Enough...
Enough Is Enough – The Madeleine McCann Case, Its Unspoken Secrets & Why Operation Grange Needs To End Now
However, after years of an investigation riddled with dead ends, millions in public funding, and a recent disappointment in the acquittal of suspect Christian Brueckner in other totally unconnected cases, many are asking the same question: Why does this case continue? Who holds the real answers? And, is there anyone out there who actually knows what happened?
Since her disappearance, the hunt for Madeleine has become one of the longest-running – and shockingly costliest – missing persons investigations in modern history. In the UK alone, an estimated £14 million has been spent by the British government on Operation Grange, the inquiry dedicated exclusively to finding her. And what has this unprecedented spending achieved? Precious little, if anyone were actually honest.
The latest in a long line of “persons of interest,” German national Christian Brueckner, was initially paraded as a suspect by authorities. For years, he was presented as the ultimate suspect, with tantalising hints from investigators that finally, an answer was within reach. Yet, Brueckner was acquitted in another unconnected set of cases, and the public, once again, was left with the bitter aftertaste of a dead end lead. It begs the question: how much longer should this cycle of build-up and disappointment go on?
Red herrings and endless questions – Who knows the truth?
As the Brueckner debacle shows, the investigation has been marred by high-profile suspects who, in the end, turn out to be red herrings. Time after time, public interest is reignited with suggestions of “new leads,” only for hopes to be dashed. One can’t help but wonder: how many people out there actually know the truth? There must be individuals, witnesses, or former suspects who have held pieces of information for years – information that could bring the truth to light. Yet the silence remains deafening.
For instance, many people still believe that multiple individuals connected to Praia da Luz on that fateful night might hold valuable insights. The complex network of witnesses, staff, and even other guests at the resort has never fully been disclosed, creating an air of secrecy. Why hasn’t this circle been fully investigated? Are there people shielding each other, protecting reputations, or perhaps even benefiting from the ambiguity? How many know the truth, and why hasn’t it come out?
The human toll on the McCann family (and the public)
For the McCanns, the reality is one of endless agony and frustration. Kate and Gerry McCann, who once inspired global sympathy, are now met with mixed reactions, often due to the perception that the case has overshadowed other equally tragic disappearances. In many ways, the prolonged investigation has become a burden not only to them but also to the public, who are forced to confront the unsettling realization that justice may never come.
The McCann case has also become a staple of tabloid speculation, with sensationalism often driving the narrative. This has led to endless news cycles, yet almost no new information. We hear about a “breakthrough” only for it to turn out to be irrelevant, as in the case of Brueckner. In the meantime, the families and friends who might genuinely be connected to the case but entirely innocent are hounded by the media and given no peace.
If Brueckner was, indeed, a red herring from day one – as many experts now believe – then why was he pursued so doggedly? Why was so much time and money invested in yet another dead-end? This latest misstep is emblematic of a larger issue within the investigation: a pattern of misdirection, fuelled by sensationalism, that leads nowhere. This mismanagement not only wastes resources but chips away at public faith in the investigation itself.
Christian Brueckner, a convicted criminal in Germany, was publicly labelled as a major suspect, with authorities insinuating that the case’s resolution was closer than ever. For months, the public followed the hints and statements, believing this might be the moment of closure. And yet, with Brueckner’s recent acquittal in Germany
in a separate set of cases, the Madeleine McCann case seems as lost as it did in 2007.
Forum etiquette requires that you post a link (unless of course you wrote this, unlikely I know)
None of this takes away from my point that Brückner’s release from prison will been seen as a good thing by many McCann sceptics.
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In my opinion many McCann sceptics will be pleased if and when Bruckner is released from prison. Many see him as a victim, as a man greatly wronged by the German prosecution service, and by HCW in particular. They know that his release would be a real slap in HCW’s face and that is something I believe would give them great pleasure. They also think (for some bizarre reason) that CB’s release means the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance would have to go back to square one and that the police might have to start investigating the parents again despite this being completely illogical and bonkers thinking.
Some McCann sceptics don’t even think CB is that bad of a guy anyway. They think he was framed for the rape of the American woman and as for his crimes against children, well they weren’t THAT bad after all, and getting your genitals out for a wee in front of random children is apparently legally permissable now so…give the guy a break right? I’ve read so many posts downplaying the seriousness of this man’s crimes on here alone so no I don’t think it’s at all stupid to ask sceptics if they would be pleased to see Bruckner being released. I genuinely think some would be delighted.
If people are allowed to support the McCanns and their right to the presumption of innocence then I think it is only fair I can support Christian Brueckner's. If that's somehow wrong of me can you explain why? I really have no problem with the man myself. He's never done me any harm. Why should I wish ill on Him? He should be free to leave prison when he's finished his current sentence because that's how the law works. He hasn't been found guilty of any other crimes so why should he have to rot in prison for things he hasn't done?
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Forum etiquette requires that you post a link (unless of course you wrote this, unlikely I know)
None of this takes away from my point that Brückner’s release from prison will been seen as a good thing by many McCann sceptics.
I think it is generally wrong to hold people in prison for longer than their allocated sentence. It is worse still to hold a person in prison for crimes they've been tried & found not guilty of. I think this is a sentiment anyone with a belief in justice & the rule of law should be in agreement on.
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I think CB being found not guilty, and just about found 'sorry about this whole sh1t show that should never have occurred' in the process, and his impending release are good things. It's rule of law rigorously and robustly upheld manifest.
But let's be clear; it's a really bad thing for the McCannolytes, just as it can be viewed as a good thing for sceptics.
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I think CB being found not guilty, and just about found 'sorry about this whole sh1t show that should never have occurred' in the process, and his impending release are good things. It's rule of law rigorously and robustly upheld manifest.
But let's be clear; it's a really bad thing for the McCannolytes, just as it can be viewed as a good thing for sceptics.
I don't believe that a judge who acquitted a man accused of 5 separate crimes, varying in severity, by declaring that all witnesses and victims in her courtroom were effectively lying, falls within the definition of rigorously upholding the law. But maybe it's just me who doesn't want to see other women and children harmed if Brueckner is ever allowed to rejoin society as a free man.
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/niedersachsen/article407692425/christian-b-kaempft-gegen-sein-vergewaltigungs-urteil-an.html
The appeal court has 13 weeks from 8th October 2024 to cast judgement on Judge Engemann's rulings.
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I don't believe that a judge who acquitted a man accused of 5 separate crimes, varying in severity, by declaring that all witnesses and victims in her courtroom were effectively lying, falls within the definition of rigorously upholding the law. But maybe it's just me who doesn't want to see other women and children harmed if Brueckner is ever allowed to rejoin society as a free man.
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/niedersachsen/article407692425/christian-b-kaempft-gegen-sein-vergewaltigungs-urteil-an.html
The appeal court has 13 weeks from 8th October 2024 to cast judgement on Judge Engemann's rulings.
It’s not just you Misty. Whilst I appreciate that once a criminal has served his time he should be eligible for parole, but this needs to be balanced with consideration of the risk he or she poses to the public should they be released, and their conduct whilst in prison needs to be taken into account also. I don’t see how anyone could be pleased to know that a man like CB is soon to be released back into the community, unless the safety of the female public is of less importance to them than the vindictive glee they will no doubt feel if and when it happens . Nor do I understand why anyone should think his release is only bad news for “McCannolytes” (that’s a new insult I haven’t encountered before). I think it’s bad news for anyone with wives, mothers, sisters and daughters that happen to come into contact with CB once he is released.
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I don't believe that a judge who acquitted a man accused of 5 separate crimes, varying in severity, by declaring that all witnesses and victims in her courtroom were effectively lying, falls within the definition of rigorously upholding the law. But maybe it's just me who doesn't want to see other women and children harmed if Brueckner is ever allowed to rejoin society as a free man.
https://www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de/niedersachsen/article407692425/christian-b-kaempft-gegen-sein-vergewaltigungs-urteil-an.html
The appeal court has 13 weeks from 8th October 2024 to cast judgement on Judge Engemann's rulings.
Burns, doesn't it. Your last hope, the man who HCW proclaimed he'd got his man in the search for this 'abductor' over 4 years ago.
The hope went overnight, didn't it, so it's no surprise you're salty.
The judge did her job and called the 'evidence' what it was; hobo hearsay and the ramblings of the mentally incapable. It should never have set foot in a court room, but I will guarantee that HCW's paymasters had absolutely no choice but to press ahead, despite not having a case, as HCW painted everyone in to a corner.
Your problem now is, HCW has driven a cart and horses through any chance of charging CB with anything ever.
It's difficult for you all to accept, and I can see why loads of you have left the forum, I get it. But the CB aspect of this saga is now finally over. Back to square one looking for the phantom abductor.
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Burns, doesn't it. Your last hope, the man who HCW proclaimed he'd got his man in the search for this 'abductor' over 4 years ago.
The hope went overnight, didn't it, so it's no surprise you're salty.
The judge did her job and called the 'evidence' what it was; hobo hearsay and the ramblings of the mentally incapable. It should never have set foot in a court room, but I will guarantee that HCW's paymasters had absolutely no choice but to press ahead, despite not having a case, as HCW painted everyone in to a corner.
Your problem now is, HCW has driven a cart and horses through any chance of charging CB with anything ever.
It's difficult for you all to accept, and I can see why loads of you have left the forum, I get it. But the CB aspect of this saga is now finally over. Back to square one looking for the phantom abductor.
I doubt that's going to happen as no police force will be interested in continuing.
PJ and OG have only been going through the motions anyway, and with CB out of the picture, the Germans have no interest or jurisdiction.
No trial actually suits everyone in that CB is forever cast as culprit anyway and and OG will certainly give a huge sigh of relief in that they've met their main objective without really trying too hard.
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The rapes against the two unidentified women was never going to fly because the only evidence was Busching & Seeythurths testimony. Hazel B I thought was a possibility because I was lead to believe their was a partial fingerprint recovered, although apparently there was not, also FF successful argued that Brueckner is right handed & her assailant left handed. She only saw his blue eyes & couldn't ID him any other way. Not proof beyond a a reasonable doubt there. The exposures on the beach & playground seemed likely to me but alas they were not.
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I doubt that's going to happen as police force will be interested in continuing.
PJ and OG have only been going through the motions anyway, and with CB out of the picture, the Germans have no interest or jurisdiction.
No trial actually suits everyone in that CB is forever cast as culprit anyway and and OG will certainly give a huge sigh of relief in that they've met their main objective without really trying too hard.
IMO anyone who seriously believes that CB being cleared of a rape charge and a handful of child abuse charges means that the police will have to go back to square one on the McCann case must have rocks where their brains should be.
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I doubt that's going to happen as no police force will be interested in continuing.
PJ and OG have only been going through the motions anyway, and with CB out of the picture, the Germans have no interest or jurisdiction.
No trial actually suits everyone in that CB is forever cast as culprit anyway and and OG will certainly give a huge sigh of relief in that they've met their main objective without really trying too hard.
True. They must all of have asked 'where do we go from here, is it down to the lake I fear, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I?'
HCW has made perhaps the biggest legal faux pas in Germany since Nuremberg. What a mess. Yes, there's an appeal, but I doubt they'll even get a look in after the total annihilation HCW suffered last time. Risk another humiliation in front of the entire world again? No chance.
And all for what? Leverage to cast CB as the villain - get the child abuse stuff to stick to bolster a non-existent case of abduction and murder.
Well that fiasco is behind us and we can start concentrating on where the blame lies. I'd start by referencing the DNA match and go back from there; a new investigation with fresh eyes.
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True. They must all of have asked 'where do we go from here, is it down to the lake I fear, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I?'
HCW has made perhaps the biggest legal faux pas in Germany since Nuremberg. What a mess. Yes, there's an appeal, but I doubt they'll even get a look in after the total annihilation HCW suffered last time. Risk another humiliation in front of the entire world again? No chance.
And all for what? Leverage to cast CB as the villain - get the child abuse stuff to stick to bolster a non-existent case of abduction and murder.
Well that fiasco is behind us and we can start concentrating on where the blame lies. I'd start by referencing the DNA match and go back from there; a new investigation with fresh eyes.
Isn't going to happen. OG won't want to admit they've wasted a dozen years and more on a red herring and who else would be interested in taking it on ?
No, Madeleine's disappearance is doomed to join the list of unsolved cold cases, periodically dragged out for a review that leads nowhere.
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Isn't going to happen. OG won't want to admit they've wasted a dozen years and more on a red herring and who else would be interested in taking it on ?
No, Madeleine's disappearance is doomed to join the list of unsolved cold cases, periodically dragged out for a review that leads nowhere.
You could be right there, arse covering all round will be going on.
The only hope is for someone to blab, which will only happen when pressure is exerted in the right spot at the right time.
I don't think our special detective with a video of Kate and Gerry on a hillside is going to cut it, quite frankly.
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Isn't going to happen. OG won't want to admit they've wasted a dozen years and more on a red herring and who else would be interested in taking it on ?
No, Madeleine's disappearance is doomed to join the list of unsolved cold cases, periodically dragged out for a review that leads nowhere.
This is quite likely sadly. One thing that is not going to solve this case is re-testing the DNA in the apartment and hire car in the vain hope that it can be proven to have belonged to Madeleine. Even if this was proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, all it proves is that her DNA got into the apartment (not surprising as she was in it for a week) and into the back of the hire car (cross contamination on clothing and other personal effects would hardly be surprising either and a valid explanation). It would certainly not prove she had died in the apartment or that her body was stuffed in the back of the car 23 days later. In fact I'd love to know how those who believe the dog correctly alerted to cadaver but who also believe Madeleine was dumped in a bin on the night of the 3rd and taken off to the local tip rationalise the car alert. Did any of them ever explain that one? I'm sure there's a preposterous explanation they could come up for it.
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This is quite likely sadly. One thing that is not going to solve this case is re-testing the DNA in the apartment and hire car in the vain hope that it can be proven to have belonged to Madeleine. Even if this was proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, all it proves is that her DNA got into the apartment (not surprising as she was in it for a week) and into the back of the hire car (cross contamination on clothing and other personal effects would hardly be surprising either and a valid explanation). It would certainly not prove she had died in the apartment or that her body was stuffed in the back of the car 23 days later. In fact I'd love to know how those who believe the dog correctly alerted to cadaver but who also believe Madeleine was dumped in a bin on the night of the 3rd and taken off to the local tip rationalise the car alert. Did any of them ever explain that one? I'm sure there's a preposterous explanation they could come up for it.
You already answered the question. Cross contamination.
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Isn't going to happen. OG won't want to admit they've wasted a dozen years and more on a red herring and who else would be interested in taking it on ?
No, Madeleine's disappearance is doomed to join the list of unsolved cold cases, periodically dragged out for a review that leads nowhere.
Isn't going to happen. OG won't want to admit they've wasted a dozen years and more on a red herring
Aswell as the 14+ million
Also could you imagine the embarresment.
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This is quite likely sadly. One thing that is not going to solve this case is re-testing the DNA in the apartment and hire car in the vain hope that it can be proven to have belonged to Madeleine. Even if this was proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, all it proves is that her DNA got into the apartment (not surprising as she was in it for a week) and into the back of the hire car (cross contamination on clothing and other personal effects would hardly be surprising either and a valid explanation). It would certainly not prove she had died in the apartment or that her body was stuffed in the back of the car 23 days later. In fact I'd love to know how those who believe the dog correctly alerted to cadaver but who also believe Madeleine was dumped in a bin on the night of the 3rd and taken off to the local tip rationalise the car alert. Did any of them ever explain that one? I'm sure there's a preposterous explanation they could come up for it.
Strange how they didnt get DNA testing done by perlin for free.
Madeleine McCann DNA breakthrough as US expert offers ...
— A DNA expert in the US could provide a breakthrough in the Madeleine McCann case after he offered to analyse samples held in the UK.
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IMO anyone who seriously believes that CB being cleared of a rape charge and a handful of child abuse charges means that the police will have to go back to square one on the McCann case must have rocks where their brains should be.
What like a rock et scientest do you mean....anyway.
I do think they should go back to the begining of that open window what proof they have of it actually being open.
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Strange how they didnt get DNA testing done by perlin for free.
Madeleine McCann DNA breakthrough as US expert offers ...
— A DNA expert in the US could provide a breakthrough in the Madeleine McCann case after he offered to analyse samples held in the UK.
Not only that, DNA science has advanced considerably in the past decade or so, so what might have been a complex result, impossible to interpret back in 2007 may be more easily resolved today.
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Strange how they didnt get DNA testing done by perlin for free.
Madeleine McCann DNA breakthrough as US expert offers ...
— A DNA expert in the US could provide a breakthrough in the Madeleine McCann case after he offered to analyse samples held in the UK.
It's not strange and I've explained why establishing whether or not it was definitely Madeleine's DNA would not take the case forward one millimetre. We know Madeleine was in the apartment and we know that cross-contamination could explain the presence of her DNA in the car her family were using.
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What like a rock et scientest do you mean....anyway.
I do think they should go back to the begining of that open window what proof they have of it actually being open.
Gosh, a comedian in our midst. The second joke was funnier than the first.
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Gosh, a comedian in our midst. The second joke was funnier than the first.
well, what about the one..... someone forgot to jemmie the window open ..it seems
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well, what about the one..... someone forgot to jemmie the window open ..it seems
y-a-w-n
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y-a-w-n
Your posts have an obsession with trying to make posters ..... less important than yourself.
What have we learned in 17 years nothing [apart from the prime suspects for abduction].. results in zero.
Maddie disappeared 17 years a go...no one can prove what happened or who was responsible it seems.
IMO the only way of solving this is for fresh eyes to look at it from the begining....not half way through
Or keep looking for a so called abductor ....of wich they have no evidence there was one.
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well, what about the one..... someone forgot to jemmie the window open ..it seems
And someone forgot who wiped The Lichen off the window sill. That would have taken a bit of doing. Or are we supposed to forget about that?
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And someone forgot who wiped The Lichen off the window sill. That would have taken a bit of doing. Or are we supposed to forget about that?
I dont think anyone did.
Myth #4 - Apartment 5a had lichen on the window sill
This was a reference to the McCann's holiday complex at the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz.
Wasn't it only kmcc fingerprints found on the window.
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Your posts have an obsession with trying to make posters ..... less important than yourself.
What have we learned in 17 years nothing [apart from the prime suspects for abduction].. results in zero.
Maddie disappeared 17 years a go...no one can prove what happened or who was responsible it seems.
IMO the only way of solving this is for fresh eyes to look at it from the begining....not half way through
Or keep looking for a so called abductor ....of wich they have no evidence there was one.
Fresh eyes or eyes belonging to a brain that’s convinced the parents dunnit? Which would suit you best? You have an obsession with dragging up ancient myths, legends and barmpot opinions about this case that have been discussed until we’re all blue in the face and some. The world has moved on since 2007, but clearly not for some.
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Fresh eyes or eyes belonging to a brain that’s convinced the parents dunnit? Which would suit you best? You have an obsession with dragging up ancient myths, legends and barmpot opinions about this case that have been discussed until we’re all blue in the face and some. The world has moved on since 2007, but clearly not for some.
Oh get a grip VS ....stop getting so stressed.
Oh and don't you tell me what can be posted and what cant.
The world may have moved on since 2007....but what happened to Maddie hasn't.
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Oh get a grip VS ....stop getting so stressed.
Oh and don't you tell me what can be posted and what cant.
The world may have moved on since 2007....but what happened to Maddie hasn't.
What happened to Madeleine was that she was likely abducted by a stranger, as Andy Redwood said, and that’s what three police forces are currently investigating. I suggest you stop accusing me of being stressed and obsessed btw. there’s a good girl.
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What happened to Madeleine was that she was likely abducted by a stranger, as Andy Redwood said, and that’s what three police forces are currently investigating. I suggest you stop accusing me of being stressed and obsessed btw. there’s a good girl.
I always am a good girl V.
barmpot opinions about this case that have been discussed until we’re all blue in the face
I think getting blue in the face I suggest is a sign of stress....and who is we're.
OK so redwood said likely abducted
HCW says CB likely the abductor/murderer
No evidence to prove any of this ...same as you haven't ...its all just opinions
You may prefer to believe what you are told without evidence....I don't.
How do you know 3 police forces are currently investigating abduction or even investigating at all.
I would hardly call 4 officers a police force. or disappearance equals abduction
Current status
The investigation is ongoing, and the Home Office has provided up to £192,000 in special grant funding for the 2024-2025 year. The investigation team is made up of three police officers and one member of police staff, all working part-time
1 May 2024 — Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been given another £192,000 by the Home Office
That is what Maddie is a missing child from the apartment in 2007 ...and we are no further on than that.
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Kizzy, I do find your arguments tediously repetitive. I can’t be arsed with it anymore. In fact you win. Everything you say is right and every opinion I’ve ever held about the McCanns, Amaral, the PJ, HCW, CB etc is wrong, wrong wrong. There’s nothing more to be said. Your last post has utterly won me over and worn me out. Well done.
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The window to me is one of the biggest red flags.
Why did she leave it wide open curtains blowing....an then leave the apartment with twins still inside.
Kmcc said she knew straight away maddie had been taken ...yet searched for 10 mins.
10 mins is a long time for a small space ...so what was she doing all that time
IIRC gmcc was also gone quite a while it seems.
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The window to me is one of the biggest red flags.
Why did she leave it wide open curtains blowing....an then leave the apartment with twins still inside.
Kmcc said she knew straight away maddie had been taken ...yet searched for 10 mins.
10 mins is a long time for a small space ...so what was she doing all that time
IIRC gmcc was also gone quite a while it seems.
Because she knew that the twins were perfectly safe as there was no abductor. She pretended to search for 10 minutes knowing full well Gerry had his armsful and a date with a dustbin in downtown PdL. When she was pretnding to search she was actually drinking half a bottle of wine that had been left over from earlier, quietly cackling to herself about the brilliant plan she and Gez had cooked up over dinner.
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Kizzy, I do find your arguments tediously repetitive. I can’t be arsed with it anymore. In fact you win. Everything you say is right and every opinion I’ve ever held about the McCanns, Amaral, the PJ, HCW, CB etc is wrong, wrong wrong. There’s nothing more to be said. Your last post has utterly won me over and worn me out. Well done.
I win, win what .......you see its not a game for me.
I believe in what..... I believe happened to Maddie....and as yet there is no evidence to say I'm wrong.
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Because she knew that the twins were perfectly safe as there was no abductor. She pretended to search for 10 minutes knowing full well Gerry had his armsful and a date with a dustbin in downtown PdL. When she was pretnding to search she was actually drinking half a bottle of wine that had been left over from earlier, quietly cackling to herself about the brilliant plan she and Gez had cooked up over dinner.
Because she knew that the twins were perfectly safe as there was no abductor.
Spot on VS.
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Because she knew that the twins were perfectly safe as there was no abductor.
Spot on VS.
Exactly. When do you think the plan was hatched then? Over dinner or before they arrived at the Tapas?
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I win, win what .......you see its not a game for me.
I believe in what..... I believe happened to Maddie....and as yet there is no evidence to say I'm wrong.
You win the argument. It’s your brilliantly logical mind that’s persuaded me to see where I’ve been going wrong all these years. Your opinion is absolutely spot on, I see that now. Thanks.
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Did anyone ever search the landfill nearest PDL?
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Did anyone ever search the landfill nearest PDL?
If Madeleine was in the landfill by 4th May and dogs don’t lie, whose corpse were the McCanns transporting in the hire car? Are we sure they hadn’t murdered anyone else after Madeleine went missing? I reckon it’s possible, what say you?
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Did anyone ever search the landfill nearest PDL?
I don't think they did....not in the early days anyway.
Seemed to me PJ were too busy pandering round the mccs abduction claim.
Then they got the interference from the UK police....so possibly never searched.
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If Madeleine was in the landfill by 4th May and dogs don’t lie, whose corpse were the McCanns transporting in the hire car? Are we sure they hadn’t murdered anyone else after Madeleine went missing? I reckon it’s possible, what say you?
Well, its possible ...it could have been cross contamination from stuff put in the boot.
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I don't think they did....not in the early days anyway.
Seemed to me PJ were too busy pandering round the mccs abduction claim.
Then they got the interference from the UK police....so possibly never searched.
Yes, the PJ were put under huge pressure by the McCanns and the UK police to do as they were told and to put aside all their police training and believe in the abduction to the exclusion of any other possible theory, I feel so sorry for them not having the abilty to stand up to such strong foreign intervention. I wonder how they eventually found the strength to stand up to those bloody Brits? But good on them for finally doing so and pursuing the only logical and plausible theory ie that the Mcanns put their child into a freezer (or someone else’s coffin) and then retrieved her for transporting to her final destination 23 days later.
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Well, its possible ...it could have been cross contamination from stuff put in the boot.
But there was frozen bodily fluids found? So whose frozen body was in there if not Madeleine’s? I don’t think cross contamination could possibly have explained the alerts in thr apartment, maybe from someone else exposed to dead bodies, such as a doctor, policeman, morgue attendant or undertaker do you? That just sounds bonkers when obviously it was a dead child the dog was alerting to.
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Yes, the PJ were put under huge pressure by the McCanns and the UK police to do as they were told and to pit aside all their police training and believe in the abduction to the exclusion of any other possible theory, I feel so sorry for them not having the abilty to stand up to such strong foreign intervention. I wonder how they eventually found the strength to stand up to those bloody Brits? But good on them for finally doing so and pursuing the only logical and plausible theory ie that the Mcanns put their child into a freezer (or someone else’s coffin) and thrn retrieved her for transporting to her final destination 23 days later.
You know they interfered
'Competing British police forces' harmed Madeleine McCann search
Relations with Portuguese authorities damaged as agencies fought to join investigation, says secret Home Office report
Relations with Portuguese authorities were damaged as UK agencies clamoured to get involved in the high-profile case, leading to warnings that Britain should not act as a "colonial power".
His unpublished report, which was commissioned by former home secretary Alan Johnson in 2009, also said the decision to put the McCanns' local force, Leicestershire constabulary, in charge of the operation was a mistake because it was ill-equipped to deal with such a wide-ranging investigation.
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But there was frozen bodily fluids found? So whose frozen body was in there if not Madeleine’s? I don’t think cross contamination could possibly have explained the alerts in thr apartment, maybe from someone else exposed to dead bodies, such as a doctor, policeman, morgue attendant or undertaker do you? That just sounds bonkers when obviously it was a dead child the dog was alerting to.
No Not in the apartment in the car.
both dogs alerted in apartment on mcc clothes etc....yet no where else. no other apartment /car/ nothing
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You know they interfered
'Competing British police forces' harmed Madeleine McCann search
Relations with Portuguese authorities damaged as agencies fought to join investigation, says secret Home Office report
Relations with Portuguese authorities were damaged as UK agencies clamoured to get involved in the high-profile case, leading to warnings that Britain should not act as a "colonial power".
His unpublished report, which was commissioned by former home secretary Alan Johnson in 2009, also said the decision to put the McCanns' local force, Leicestershire constabulary, in charge of the operation was a mistake because it was ill-equipped to deal with such a wide-ranging investigation.
I totally agree and find it so sad that the PJ were simply not strong enough to withstand the weight of interference from the UK authorities. If only they’d been allowed to arrest and charge the McCanns back in the Summer of 2007 then we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. With the huge wealth of evidence against the McCanns such as the dog alerts, the Smith sighting, the jemmied shutters, the blood spatter, the strange body language, the video of them burying the body etc, they would certainly have been found guilty and left to rot in a Portuguese prison as they deserved. Meanwhile we could have been spending the last 17 years trying to solve some other terrible crime from our armchairs.
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No Not in the apartment in the car.
both dogs alerted in apartment on mcc clothes etc....yet no where else. no other apartment /car/ nothing
Quite right too. Dogs don’t lie but I’m still puzzled by all the defrosted body fluids in the car. Whose was it, if not Madeleine’s?
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Well, its possible ...it could have been cross contamination from stuff put in the boot.
Off course it could.
It’s quite clear that Madeleine, alive or dead, was never in the hire car. What is less clear is did items which had come into contact with her body, or perhaps the clothes of someone who carried her body, cause the dogs to alert?
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Off course it could.
It’s quite clear that Madeleine, alive or dead, was never in the hire car. What is less clear is did items which had come into contact with her body, or perhaps the clothes of someone who carried her body, cause the dogs to alert?
It wasn’t clear to Dr Amaral though. He felt quite sure there were defrosted bodily fluids and n the back of that car. What evidence have got that makes you so sure he was wrong? I think it’s disrespectful of you to contradict the man who was closest to the investigation at the time.
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Quite right too. Dogs don’t lie but I’m still puzzled by all the defrosted body fluids in the car. Whose was it, if not Madeleine’s?
Why puzzled ...gave already said it could be cross contamination.
Who could have committed the perfect crime.
who didn't have to explain why any prints or DNA were found in that apartment.
Oh and.
THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE WHO RUSHED OUT TO PRAIA DA LUZ AFTER 3 MAY 2007 AND BY FRIDAY 11 MAY 2007
This summarises a list of those known to have rushed out to Praia da Luz after 3 May 2007 (or on the case of Resonate and Robert Murat, BEFORE then). Dates of arrival given where known, all before Thursday May 10 unless otherwise stated:
Government officials
Robert Henderson – British Consul for the Algarve – immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)
John Buck – British Ambassador to Portugal (Lisbon), arrived immediately
Angela Morado – British Proconsul, arrived immediately
Liz Dow, British Consul rom the Embassy in Lisbon, arrived immediately
Andy Bowes, British Embassy Press Officer, arrived immediately
Sheree Dodd, Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Other staff from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office
British Police Officers
Glen Power, British Police Liaison Officer for Portugal, arrived 5 May
An ‘Analyst’ (unnamed) from the National Policing Improvements Agency, arrived 4 May
Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small, Leicestershire Police
Two other police ‘family liaison’ officers from Leicestershire Police
Government security and secret service personnel
Staff from MI5 (unnamed)
Staff from Child Exploitation and OnLine Protection Service (unnamed – Kate McCann in her book describes them As ‘Forensic Psychologists’), arrived 4 May
More staff from CEOP, the ‘Director of the Forensic Psychology Unit’ AND a CEOP ‘social worker’ (arrived 6 May)
Staff from Special Branch (unnamed)
‘Criminal profilers’ (unnamed - attached to unnamed government security departments)
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An impressive array of people to run interference on behalf of the distraught parents and friends
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An impressive array of people to run interference on behalf of the distraught parents and friends
It certainly is....and it doesn't involve the Lawyers the mccs hired IIRC 11...
Not forgetting eventually Clarence spin doctor Mitchell and Carter Ruck,
and why these....it seems to me GA didn't stand a chance from the beginning.
John Buck – British Ambassador to Portugal (Lisbon), arrived immediately
Angela Morado – British Proconsul, arrived immediately
Liz Dow, British Consul rom the Embassy in Lisbon, arrived immediately
Andy Bowes, British Embassy Press Officer, arrived immediately
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Why puzzled ...gave already said it could be cross contamination.
Who could have committed the perfect crime.
who didn't have to explain why any prints or DNA were found in that apartment.
Oh and.
THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE WHO RUSHED OUT TO PRAIA DA LUZ AFTER 3 MAY 2007 AND BY FRIDAY 11 MAY 2007
This summarises a list of those known to have rushed out to Praia da Luz after 3 May 2007 (or on the case of Resonate and Robert Murat, BEFORE then). Dates of arrival given where known, all before Thursday May 10 unless otherwise stated:
Government officials
Robert Henderson – British Consul for the Algarve – immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)
John Buck – British Ambassador to Portugal (Lisbon), arrived immediately
Angela Morado – British Proconsul, arrived immediately
Liz Dow, British Consul rom the Embassy in Lisbon, arrived immediately
Andy Bowes, British Embassy Press Officer, arrived immediately
Sheree Dodd, Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Other staff from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office
British Police Officers
Glen Power, British Police Liaison Officer for Portugal, arrived 5 May
An ‘Analyst’ (unnamed) from the National Policing Improvements Agency, arrived 4 May
Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small, Leicestershire Police
Two other police ‘family liaison’ officers from Leicestershire Police
Government security and secret service personnel
Staff from MI5 (unnamed)
Staff from Child Exploitation and OnLine Protection Service (unnamed – Kate McCann in her book describes them As ‘Forensic Psychologists’), arrived 4 May
More staff from CEOP, the ‘Director of the Forensic Psychology Unit’ AND a CEOP ‘social worker’ (arrived 6 May)
Staff from Special Branch (unnamed)
‘Criminal profilers’ (unnamed - attached to unnamed government security departments)
Yes absolutely shocking and indicative of a massive cover up to protect the McCanns. Clearly these were not just two common or garden doctors on holiday with friends but two people who played a critical role within the British Establishment whose reputations needed protecting at any cost. V. sinister. Probably free masons imo.
But getting back to the defrosted bodily fluids, I don’t understand your remark about cross contamination. According to Amaral these defrosted bodily fluids were actually found in the boot of the car. Whose were they? Do you know? Madeleine’s surely?
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Your posts have an obsession with trying to make posters ..... less important than yourself.
What have we learned in 17 years nothing [apart from the prime suspects for abduction].. results in zero.
Maddie disappeared 17 years a go...no one can prove what happened or who was responsible it seems.
IMO the only way of solving this is for fresh eyes to look at it from the begining....not half way through
Or keep looking for a so called abductor ....of wich they have no evidence there was one.
Dear Kizzy,
We have learned an enormous amount, such that OG changed their opinion from thinking Madeleine was murdered to now thinking that she is likely alive.
And there are still clues out there 'Hidden in plain sight' if you look in the right way. Every month or so, I find something else.
You just have to forget all the disinformation put out and look in a different way. We have been massively deceived by disinformation ..../ disinformation on a massive scale and everyone followed the same path in their search .... and came to the same, or with some of you, opposing conclusions. Think out of the box.
I repeat, SY now think it likely that Madeleine lives.
Matt James, psychic, also believes Madeleine is alive as do all reputable psychics. Like me, he thinks that she was taken for her very precious sacred bloodline ... and they are trying to reproduce another ' Coming of Christ ', by breeding from her.
I dont think that she has been physically hurt or damaged in any way, but kept pure.
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I win, win what .......you see its not a game for me.
I believe in what..... I believe happened to Maddie....and as yet there is no evidence to say I'm wrong.
There is loads of evidence/clues, Kizzy, but I am unable to share. Soz.
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Yes, the PJ were put under huge pressure by the McCanns and the UK police to do as they were told and to put aside all their police training and believe in the abduction to the exclusion of any other possible theory, I feel so sorry for them not having the abilty to stand up to such strong foreign intervention. I wonder how they eventually found the strength to stand up to those bloody Brits? But good on them for finally doing so and pursuing the only logical and plausible theory ie that the Mcanns put their child into a freezer (or someone else’s coffin) and then retrieved her for transporting to her final destination 23 days later.
I love your posts. Well done VS. You are a star
@)(++(* Keep me laughing, purleaze.
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Robert Henderson – British Consul for the Algarve – immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)
(&^& (&^&
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Yes absolutely shocking and indicative of a massive cover up to protect the McCanns. Clearly these were not just two common or garden doctors on holiday with friends but two people who played a critical role within the British Establishment whose reputations needed protecting at any cost. V. sinister. Probably free masons imo.
But getting back to the defrosted bodily fluids, I don’t understand your remark about cross contamination. According to Amaral these defrosted bodily fluids were actually found in the boot of the car. Whose were they? Do you know? Madeleine’s surely?
whose reputations needed protecting at any cost.
True......you said it not me.
Well you may find the info you want by readin another ex detective book.
IMO the window is the most important fax of the case......if that wasn't true then neither was anything else.
Put yourself inside the mind of a detective and work it out for yourself
This e-book has been expertly written from the perspective of a retired Police Superintendent detective who served for twenty eight years with Nottinghamshire Police (1972-2000) variously in uniform, CID, training, and latterly as the Operations Commander of a large Division
The "smashed, broken, jemmied shutters", . . . the shutters found "raised" by Kate, as confirmed by Gerry. . . but observed by no one else. At all.
https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/put-yourself-inside-mind-of-detective.html
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Dear Kizzy,
We have learned an enormous amount, such that OG changed their opinion from thinking Madeleine was murdered to now thinking that she is likely alive.
And there are still clues out there 'Hidden in plain sight' if you look in the right way. Every month or so, I find something else.
You just have to forget all the disinformation put out and look in a different way. We have been massively deceived by disinformation ..../ disinformation on a massive scale and everyone followed the same path in their search .... and came to the same, or with some of you, opposing conclusions. Think out of the box.
I repeat, SY now think it likely that Madeleine lives.
Matt James, psychic, also believes Madeleine is alive as do all reputable psychics. Like me, he thinks that she was taken for her very precious sacred bloodline ... and they are trying to reproduce another ' Coming of Christ ', by breeding from her.
I dont think that she has been physically hurt or damaged in any way, but kept pure.
Hello Sadie, nice to see your still posting on forum...hoping your well. x
You have your theory I know ...but mine is very different to yours.
At least though it is good to see...you have what happened to Maddie fore front in your mind as I do.
So many missing from thread [moderators] as well as others Starti Angelo G-Unit and Brietta. really hope they are all well.
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Robert Henderson – British Consul for the Algarve – immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)
(&^& (&^&
Why would you think that funny...seem to remember CC was washed.
The very last thing Maddie held....washed away.
So if CC was washed ......so would the rest of things.
Can you actually come up with a coherent and credible alternative explanation for why so many top government, PR, police, lawyers and state security officials positively swarmed like locusts into that little village of Praia da Luz, all in just those first few days?
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whose reputations needed protecting at any cost.
True......you said it not me.
Well you may find the info you want by readin another ex detective book.
IMO the window is the most important fax of the case......if that wasn't true then neither was anything else.
Put yourself inside the mind of a detective and work it out for yourself
This e-book has been expertly written from the perspective of a retired Police Superintendent detective who served for twenty eight years with Nottinghamshire Police (1972-2000) variously in uniform, CID, training, and latterly as the Operations Commander of a large Division
The "smashed, broken, jemmied shutters", . . . the shutters found "raised" by Kate, as confirmed by Gerry. . . but observed by no one else. At all.
https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/put-yourself-inside-mind-of-detective.html
Once again, I find myself in profound agreement with the salient points of your post. It all boils down to the jemmied shutter, which was never jemmied. Gerry just said it was jemmied having forgotten that he forgot to jemmy it in the first place, the silly billy. Now, if only he’d actually jemmied it when he should have jemmied it, it then everyone would have fallen for thr abduction hoax, even Amaral, and possibly even you. Makes ya think dunnit. So, I wonder what the McCanns have that makes them so incredibly important to not one but several successive British governments. I bet if Jeremy Corbyn had been PM he’d have put a stop to all this sinister protectionism and put them McCanns both in jail where they truly belong. Oh Jeremy Corbyn. Such a missed opportunity for J4M.
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Why would you think that funny...seem to remember CC was washed.
The very last thing Maddie held....washed away.
So if CC was washed ......so would the rest of things.
Can you actually come up with a coherent and credible alternative explanation for why so many top government, PR, police, lawyers and state security officials positively swarmed like locusts into that little village of Praia da Luz, all in just those first few days?
What’s your theory re: the locusts Kizzy? Would love to hear it. My theory is the McCs knew that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were having an affair and thst they had both spent time secretly holidaying in the Algarve as guests of Clement Freud. I believe some sort of ring may have been involved *shudder*. Anyway, whatever it was they need to keep the McCs sweet otherwise they’d have blown the whistle on the whole sordid affair and brought down the government. Somebody told me this on Twitter so I know it must be true.
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Yes absolutely shocking and indicative of a massive cover up to protect the McCanns. Clearly these were not just two common or garden doctors on holiday with friends but two people who played a critical role within the British Establishment whose reputations needed protecting at any cost. V. sinister. Probably free masons imo.
But getting back to the defrosted bodily fluids, I don’t understand your remark about cross contamination. According to Amaral these defrosted bodily fluids were actually found in the boot of the car. Whose were they? Do you know? Madeleine’s surely?
All I care about are Christian Brueckner's bodily fluids.
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Once again, I find myself in profound agreement with the salient points of your post. It all boils down to the jemmied shutter, which was never jemmied. Gerry just said it was jemmied having forgotten that he forgot to jemmy it in the first place, the silly billy. Now, if only he’d actually jemmied it when he should have jemmied it, it then everyone would have fallen for thr abduction hoax, even Amaral, and possibly even you. Makes ya think dunnit. So, I wonder what the McCanns have that makes them so incredibly important to not one but several successive British governments. I bet if Jeremy Corbyn had been PM he’d have put a stop to all this sinister protectionism and put them McCanns both in jail where they truly belong. Oh Jeremy Corbyn. Such a missed opportunity for J4M.
Don't forget whilst staging an abduction Kate put her fingerprints on the window doh
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Why would you think that funny...seem to remember CC was washed.
The very last thing Maddie held....washed away.
So if CC was washed ......so would the rest of things.
Can you actually come up with a coherent and credible alternative explanation for why so many top government, PR, police, lawyers and state security officials positively swarmed like locusts into that little village of Praia da Luz, all in just those first few days?
As the news of an abduction of a British child in a foreign country was spread worldwide. It wouldn't have been strange to have all of these government PR's arriving. They weren't protecting the McCann's though were they? The McCann's were treated as any other family would have been treated by the Portuguese Police. They were even made arguido's. Amaral has always used the British as an excuse as to why he was taken off the case, even though he once said the British Police believed him [so which is it] Truth was he was coming up with the most ridiculous theories imaginable. Trying to fit the dog alerts to a theory. Not the other way around.
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So Hazel said the assailant was left handed and CB is right handed. So when did Hazel see CB using his left hand? When he was holding the knife? Maybe he wanted to keep his right hand free to roll her over on the bed it would have been awkward for him if he had to do that left handed also changing a condom he would do that with his right hand maybe Hazel saw him holding the knife in his left hand so thought he was left handed. It's a bit ridiculous really.
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So Hazel said the assailant was left handed and CB is right handed. So when did Hazel see CB using his left hand? When he was holding the knife? Maybe he wanted to keep his right hand free to roll her over on the bed it would have been awkward for him if he had to do that left handed also changing a condom he would do that with his right hand maybe Hazel saw him holding the knife in his left hand so thought he was left handed. It's a bit ridiculous really.
CB had nothing to do with the rape of Hazel B. Please stop defaming him.
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Don't forget whilst staging an abduction Kate put her fingerprints on the window doh
They really were a couple of clowns weren’t they? So careless when staging the abduction but then I guess they knew that (like Trump) they could do anything they liked and no one could touch them. This is what comes of having friends in high places and knowing secrets about them.
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So Hazel said the assailant was left handed and CB is right handed. So when did Hazel see CB using his left hand? When he was holding the knife? Maybe he wanted to keep his right hand free to roll her over on the bed it would have been awkward for him if he had to do that left handed also changing a condom he would do that with his right hand maybe Hazel saw him holding the knife in his left hand so thought he was left handed. It's a bit ridiculous really.
Excellent point Lace.
Particularly since we don't know exactly what was said during the procedures in the Braunschweig court for the simple reason there is no available verbatim record published.
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I've no doubt FF or whomever of his legal team were probing & rigorous in their cross exam of Hazel B but it appears her testimony is the only evidence against CB, there's no physical or forensic against him. I fail to see how the court could be expected to reach any other verdict. Or perhaps members here think we should just start throwing men in prison based solely on a woman's testimony.
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I've no doubt FF or whomever of his legal team were probing & rigorous in their cross exam of Hazel B but it appears her testimony is the only evidence against CB, there's no physical or forensic against him. I fail to see how the court could be expected to reach any other verdict. Or perhaps members here think we should just start throwing men in prison based solely on a woman's testimony.
I think this is a marvellous idea, well done for suggesting it. We could also throw men in prison based on other men’s testimony eg: Martin Smith’s, or even on dogs’ barks, then we could finally see J4M.
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I think this is a marvellous idea, well done for suggesting it. We could also throw men in prison based on other men’s testimony eg: Martin Smith’s, or even on dogs’ barks, then we could finally see J4M.
I dont disagree, there isn't enough evidence to throw the McCanns in prison unfortunately. But that doesn't mean they didn't do it. Much like CB raping Behan. Did he rape Her? Probably. But probably isn't enough I'm afraid.
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I dont disagree, there isn't enough evidence to throw the McCanns in prison unfortunately. But that doesn't mean they didn't do it. Much like CB raping Behan. Did he rape Her? Probably. But probably isn't enough I'm afraid.
Not enough evidence against the McCanns? I thought there was a wealth of it! Especially the jemmied shutter, the defrosted bodily fluids in the back of the car and JT’s flip flops which didn’t apparently make any sound. Then there was Gerry swearing on the bus at the airport and saying “we’re not here to enjoy ourselves”. Just a coincidence? I think not! Pretty near conclusive if you ask me.
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I've no doubt FF or whomever of his legal team were probing & rigorous in their cross exam of Hazel B but it appears her testimony is the only evidence against CB, there's no physical or forensic against him. I fail to see how the court could be expected to reach any other verdict. Or perhaps members here think we should just start throwing men in prison based solely on a woman's testimony.
What a good idea. I can think of at least one person. Leave it to me and I will see what I can do.
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What a good idea. I can think of at least one person. Leave it to me and I will see what I can do.
Like everyone else on here and on other forums, you can do nothing but talk.
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Like everyone else on here and on other forums, you can do nothing but talk.
What's this got to do with anything?
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Anyway. Can we all just leave Christian Brueckner alone now please. He hasn't done anything.
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Anyway. Can we all just leave Christian Brueckner alone now please. He hasn't done anything.
Yes, please can we return to the McCanns because they haven’t been cleared (well ok, neither has Bruckner when it comes to Madeleine’s disappearance but the poor love has suffered quite enough, whereas those McCs haven’t suffered nearly enough).
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Yes, please can we return to the McCanns because they haven’t been cleared (well ok, neither has Bruckner when it comes to Madeleine’s disappearance but the poor love has suffered quite enough, whereas those McCs haven’t suffered nearly enough).
You're one of the worst culprits. You haven't a single positive thing to say about Christian Brueckner.
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You're one of the worst culprits. You haven't a single positive thing to say about Christian Brueckner.
I’ve never met him but he seems like a lovely man, really.
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I’ve never met him but he seems like a lovely man, really.
Well, a female witness in his defence did have some good things to say about him & she'd know him better than any of us so yes, maybe he's not such a bad fellow afterall. Anyway, about the McCanns.
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Well, a female witness in his defence did have some good things to say about him & she'd know him better than any of us so yes, maybe he's not such a bad fellow afterall. Anyway, about the McCanns.
yes, they seem vile by comparison. I doubt they’d find anyone in the world to stand up in court with a good word to say about them.
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yes, they seem vile by comparison. I doubt they’d find anyone in the world to stand up in court with a good word to say about them.
Maybe Mrs Gaspar.
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Maybe Mrs Gaspar.
. She’s a doctor I do believe and their word does carry weight in court. Yes she didn’t seem to have a problem with Kate or Gerry and nor did her husband so you may well be right there.
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Maybe Mrs Gaspar.
If only Dav were still alive. He'd be all over this like a tramp on chips, no doubt asking us to quantify the likelihood of these lurid acts occurring.
I would, in turn, contend that she had nothing to gain and much to lose, and, just like Martin Smith, probably regrets injecting herself in to this uncanny saga. Neither were lying, both may be mistaken, but Dav, wherever you are up there, what's the likelihood that everyone is lying / mistaken?
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Deleted
Self-moderation. I like to see it.
Some things are best left un-said.
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Self-moderation. I like to see it.
Some things are best left un-said.
A lesson you might care to take note of.
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A lesson you might care to take note of.
I do, which is why my posts are so moderate.
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I do, which is why my posts are so moderate.
You have already offended me but I chose to ignore it. I might not do so in future.
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Well, I hope this isn't going to turn into another CB thread.....enough already
The only connection it seems he has with Maddie is the word [suspect].
It was surprising to me a lot of acquittances in Spain who I often talked with
Who often read this forum [although never post]
With all the hype of CB threads and lack of info on here About Maddie. that CB had been charged.
Well, He hasn't has he....... or it seems likely to be.
also
Now that the total and repeated falsehood of the claim the McCanns were “not suspects”, and that they had been ‘cleared’ has been specifically rejected first at the Appeal Court, and then by the Supreme Court in Portugal, might it perhaps now be time to consider other things they said
They said they had cooperated fully with the Portuguese police This was not true
They said they had answered all questions truthfully This was not true
They said they had not deleted phone messages and records This was not true
They said they would not leave Portugal until Madeleine was found This was not true
They said they would take a Lie detector test This was not true
They said they had not discussed the case with the Tapas 7 This was not true
They said their reputations had been damaged by Dr Amaral’s book This was not true
They said they were not suspects This was not true
They said the shelving of the enquiry had ‘cleared’ them of suspicion This was not true
They said the “Fund” would not be used for legal expenses This was not true
They said the “Fund” accounts would be transparent and open This was not true
They said the “Fund” was for searching for Madeleine This was not true
They said they never called Madeleine - “Maddie” This was not true
They said they had not placed much emphasis on the coloboma This was not true
https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/this-was-not-true.html
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Don't forget whilst staging an abduction Kate put her fingerprints on the window doh
Oh ye......I forgot about that ....good point
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Oh ye......I forgot about that ....good point
I wonder why she did that? Another red herring?
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I wonder why she did that? Another red herring?
A gross misinterpretation and well you all know it.
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I wonder why she did that? Another red herring?
I reckon she did it because she secretly wanted to be found out, anything to escape the clutches of her overbearing, dominating husband, even a long stint in a Portuguese jail would have been preferable. Sadly for her the plan backfired and instead she’s been sentenced to nearly 17 more years of having to listen to his pompous pronouncements about heart anatomy and surgical procedures at breakfast every morning .
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Why is it the mcss get so much sympathy on here....when they not the victim. Maddie was.
Maddie was the one let down....by the ones who should have protected her.
No one seems to care what happened to her...her life finished at 3.
If I did think the mccs wasn't involved ....I would not see the need to constantly protect them.
Like some do on here
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Why is it the mcss get so much sympathy on here....when they not the victim. Maddie was.
Maddie was the one let down....by the ones who should have protected her.
No one seems to care what happened to her...her life finished at 3.
If I did think the mccs wasn't involved ....I would not see the need to constantly protect them.
Like some do on here
I totally agree. Even if they’re as innocent as lambs (which obviously they aren’t, let’s not forget Kate’s earrings and those sinister smiles outside the church) then they still deserve to be hated just because they support Everton and other reasons such as child neglect and being from Scotland/Liverpool. Yuck.
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Why would you think that funny...seem to remember CC was washed.
The very last thing Maddie held....washed away.
So if CC was washed ......so would the rest of things.
Can you actually come up with a coherent and credible alternative explanation for why so many top government, PR, police, lawyers and state security officials positively swarmed like locusts into that little village of Praia da Luz, all in just those first few days?
Kizzy, I know you are sincere and admire how you persevere. Unfortunately, it seems that you didn't read other forums which highlighted the opposite view to your forums with reasons.
There were at least two reasons why the Authorities jumped to it when Madeleine vanished.
1.
The Michael Cook/ Rachel Charles murder case in Portugal Algarve
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1992-06-09/debates/8c8b9086-32aa-4fdd-857b-88dc194e10d7/MrMichaelCook
Michael Cook was almost certainly innocent but was seriously tortured and brought to court in the battered state mentioned. News reports of the time said that he appeared in Court in a suit that he had pood and peed in, with a broken tooth . He was fitted up almost without doubt.
I suggest that you read that report to parliament, by his MP Dr Robert Spinks at least twice and make a list of the ways that he was tortured and abused. And another list of the lies told. And a list of evidence that was not allowed
Then a list of inconsistencies etc etc.
And it was thought at the time that the two good lawyers who were persuing the injustices after the case, were targeted killing the one and maiming the second
2. The Leonor/ Joanna Cipriano Case
Everybody on Madeleine Mccann Forums will have heard of this case and I don't intend to go into it in depth
Once again excessive torture was used, Leonor was beaten black and blue, lies were told. Stories with no evidence were made up and it was a huge injustice.
3. Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral was prosecuted for telling lies in the case.
He was found guilty. He perverted the course of Judgement and poor Leonor spent 16 years in jail, for a crime most rational people do not believe she did.
A second PJ Chief Inspector was also found guilty of lying in the case.
There are other cases of similar injustices.
Torture , lies, made up stories etc. NO WONDER THE UK AUTHORITIES rushed important people out to Praia de Luz.
4. I also have found evidence that Amaral lied about the original Processos 809 changing it and its contents to Processos 807-808. Note he gave the phoney Processos 807-808 an earlier number. promoting it over the original processos 809, which was direct from the PJ Inspector who interviewed the taxi driver
5. He also gave out disinformation about the house visited and which railway station the train from The Algarve arrived at.
I believe that Madeleine was transported to V.N.Gaia/Porto seperately from *the rich man* who ordered her abduction. I believe she came up by white van. He came up by train. Another report on this has been on this forum and various forums.
Kizzy, I took my research very seriously and actually visited the places mentioned in the two processos, so I know that Amaral was giving out disinformation.
Why?
Think about it.
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I reckon she did it because she secretly wanted to be found out, anything to escape the clutches of her overbearing, dominating husband, even a long stint in a Portuguese jail would have been preferable. Sadly for her the plan backfired and instead she’s been sentenced to nearly 17 more years of having to listen to his pompous pronouncements about heart anatomy and surgical procedures at breakfast every morning .
Soft cow.
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Kizzy, I know you are sincere and admire how you persevere. Unfortunately, it seems that you didn't read other forums which highlighted the opposite view to your forums with reasons.
There were at least two reasons why the Authorities jumped to it when Madeleine vanished.
1.
The Michael Cook/ Rachel Charles murder case in Portugal Algarve
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1992-06-09/debates/8c8b9086-32aa-4fdd-857b-88dc194e10d7/MrMichaelCook
Michael Cook was almost certainly innocent but was seriously tortured and brought to court in the battered state mentioned. News reports of the time said that he appeared in Court in a suit that he had pood and peed in, with a broken tooth . He was fitted up almost without doubt.
I suggest that you read that report to parliament, by his MP Dr Robert Spinks at least twice and make a list of the ways that he was tortured and abused. And another list of the lies told. And a list of evidence that was not allowed
Then a list of inconsistencies etc etc.
And it was thought at the time that the two good lawyers who were persuing the injustices after the case, were targeted killing the one and maiming the second
2. The Leonor/ Joanna Cipriano Case
Everybody on Madeleine Mccann Forums will have heard of this case and I don't intend to go into it in depth
Once again excessive torture was used, Leonor was beaten black and blue, lies were told. Stories with no evidence were made up and it was a huge injustice.
3. Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral was prosecuted for telling lies in the case.
He was found guilty. He perverted the course of Judgement and poor Leonor spent 16 years in jail, for a crime most rational people do not believe she did.
A second PJ Chief Inspector was also found guilty of lying in the case.
There are other cases of similar injustices.
Torture , lies, made up stories etc. NO WONDER THE UK AUTHORITIES rushed important people out to Praia de Luz.
4. I also have found evidence that Amaral lied about the original Processos 809 changing it and its contents to Processos 807-808. Note he gave the phoney Processos 807-808 an earlier number. promoting it over the original processos 809, which was direct from the PJ Inspector who interviewed the taxi driver
5. He also gave out disinformation about the house visited and which railway station the train from The Algarve arrived at.
I believe that Madeleine was transported to V.N.Gaia/Porto seperately from *the rich man* who ordered her abduction. I believe she came up by white van. He came up by train. Another report on this has been on this forum and various forums.
Kizzy, I took my research very seriously and actually visited the places mentioned in the two processos, so I know that Amaral was giving out disinformation.
Why?
Think about it.
Hi Sadie ...I have thought about it for 17 years, and nothing has ever changed my mind.
Back in the day there was the same brutality with our own UK officers...it seems its what they do.[even now]
I once witnessed a man getting his jaw broke [you heard the crack] for resisting arrest being drunk.
I started off like everyone else willing the little girl to be found dead or alive and end her suffering.
Then I started seeing the parents...I even thought it was a scam and Maddie would turn up in a church somewhere.
I just always believed ..they knew where Maddie was ...to me it was the only explanation to how they behaved.
I cant accept either the reason for all who went immediately was to protect the mccs from harm.
Would they have even known about the case you mentioned at that time...I don't think they would.
As you will no in the UK parents are arrested straight away when something happens to there child ....greiving or not.......this did not happen to the mccs...to me seems they were wrapped in cotton wool in no danger at all.
The offense applies when a child or vulnerable adult is harmed or killed by a member of their household who had frequent contact with them. The offender must have been aware of the risk of harm and failed to take reasonable steps to protect the child.
Seems to me they went after the PJ more than they ever went after them.
If you think I harm the mccs in some way...I don't
I believe Sadie when you loose a child abduction/accident nothing said or done can ever be any worse than that.
As we know.....all we are is two posters on a forum with our own belief ...what happened to Maddieneither being proved wrong.
Thank you for your kind words x
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Although I know it would take a miracle or someone who's conscience gets the better of them.
I do think the window is the main clue or evidence to all this
I can never get past why if she thought maddie was abducted ...she would run out leaving the twins in there.
With the window wide open.........and curtains blowing.
How is it ever going to be solve when the only evidence of abduction ...is the mccs say so.
One of the best crime solving detectives in the UK.
Colin Sutton said he was warned by senior friend in the Met about case in 2010
Speaking to Martin Brunt on Sky News, he said he was warned he would be tasked with proving her parents Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignoring any alternatives theories
Speaking to Martin Brunt on Sky News, he said: 'I did receive a call from a very senior met police officer who knew me and said it wouldn’t be a good idea for me to head investigation on the basis that I wouldn’t be happy conducting an investigation being told where I could go and where I couldn’t go, the things I could investigate and the things I couldn’t.
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Self-moderation. I like to see it.
Some things are best left un-said.
Unlike you and your dad, I am unable to vanish my posts, so if I think that maybe I cannot follow up, I do the correct action of deleting.
Is that a problem to you?
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Although I know it would take a miracle or someone who's conscience gets the better of them.
I do think the window is the main clue or evidence to all this
I can never get past why if she thought maddie was abducted ...she would run out leaving the twins in there.
With the window wide open.........and curtains blowing.
How is it ever going to be solve when the only evidence of abduction ...is the mccs say so.
One of the best crime solving detectives in the UK.
Colin Sutton said he was warned by senior friend in the Met about case in 2010
Speaking to Martin Brunt on Sky News, he said he was warned he would be tasked with proving her parents Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignoring any alternatives theories
Speaking to Martin Brunt on Sky News, he said: 'I did receive a call from a very senior met police officer who knew me and said it wouldn’t be a good idea for me to head investigation on the basis that I wouldn’t be happy conducting an investigation being told where I could go and where I couldn’t go, the things I could investigate and the things I couldn’t.
That would be because of the status of people involved.
Untouchables + their organisers, who do the * dirty work *. Some of the latter are near untouchable too
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Soft cow.
What an unpleasant man you are referring to Kate Mccann like that
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Why is it the mcss get so much sympathy on here....when they not the victim. Maddie was.
Maddie was the one let down....by the ones who should have protected her.
No one seems to care what happened to her...her life finished at 3.
If I did think the mccs wasn't involved ....I would not see the need to constantly protect them.
Like some do on here
Kizzy, you are wrong. Madeleine still lives, or did a few months ago. They want to breed a new Coming of Christ from her; such is her sacred bloodline
OG now believe her still alive and that is why they will not join Wolters in his search. Wolters thinks he has it right, but he is mistaken, she lives. She hasn't physically been hurt as a child appart from depriving her of the love and warmth of her rightful family and home.
The Mccanns were great parents judging by their actions after the abduction and home videos. You are misjudging them. Imo you have been brainwashed by the gawd awful forum that you believed, as have millions of others.
There was organised disinformation and downright lies spread on a massive and pro fessional scale and it is still happening.
Kizzy, please reread my long post. I know that you are sincere but you are wrong. I fear that you have been brainwashed by the mass of organised and beautifully presented vitriolic lies
Amaral lied repeatedly. Why? Was he covering for someone?
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Kizzy, you are wrong. Madeleine still lives, or did a few months ago. They want to breed a new Coming of Christ from her; such is her sacred bloodline
OG now believe her still alive and that is why they will not join Wolters in his search. Wolters thinks he has it right, but he is mistaken, she lives. She hasn't physically been hurt as a child appart from depriving her of the love and warmth of her rightful family and home.
The Mccanns were great parents judging by their actions after the abduction and home videos. You are misjudging them. Imo you have been brainwashed by the gawd awful forum that you believed, as have millions of others.
There was organised disinformation and downright lies spread on a massive and pro fessional scale and it is still happening.
Kizzy, please reread my long post. I know that you are sincere but you are wrong. I fear that you have been brainwashed by the mass of organised and beautifully presented vitriolic lies
Amaral lied repeatedly. Why? Was he covering for someone?
Why haven't they succeeded in breeding the bloodline, I wonder, given that she'll be in her 20's?
Perhaps genetically passed reproductive issues, if such a thing exists. Although conception didn't seem to be much of an incumberance the first time the messiah was about.
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So if MM is still alive CB cannot have murdered her.
Perhaps that will feature in his defence if he ever comes to trial.
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So if MM is still alive CB cannot have murdered her.
Perhaps that will feature in his defence if he ever comes to trial.
Schroedinger's Missing Person.
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So if MM is still alive CB cannot have murdered her.
Perhaps that will feature in his defence if he ever comes to trial.
He could still have abducted her and abused her though, and be charged with that.
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Oh ye......I forgot about that ....good point
Kate McCann is far from stupid. When staging an abduction opening the window, you don't leave your own finger prints on the window. If the McCann's were so clever to stage an abduction they wouldn't be so stupid as to leave fingerprints.
Why do you keep sarcastically refer to the blowing curtains. Have you read Amaral's book? He says it was windy on the night of the 3rd of May.
Who are we to condemn how Kate behaved after finding her daughter missing. She was obviously in a blind terror and whether she left the children or bundled them up to run to the restaurant, either would show that she was in a state of total shock.
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Kate McCann is far from stupid. When staging an abduction opening the window, you don't leave your own finger prints on the window. If the McCann's were so clever to stage an abduction they wouldn't be so stupid as to leave fingerprints.
Why do you keep sarcastically refer to the blowing curtains. Have you read Amaral's book? He says it was windy on the night of the 3rd of May.
Who are we to condemn how Kate behaved after finding her daughter missing. She was obviously in a blind terror and whether she left the children or bundled them up to run to the restaurant, either would show that she was in a state of total shock.
I'm going to revert to being a McCann apologist temporarily here and agree that for her at that moment she would have been in a blind panic and wanting to raise the alarm as quickly as humanly possible. Picking up not one but 2 sleeping two year olds at that moment would have been a practical impossibility. Madeleine was gone and could not be found anywhere in the apartment. She needed to raise the alarm as quickly as possible and ran out knowing that her husband and their friends would be back at the apartment within moments, leaving not enough time for her sleeping children to come to harm in those short moments.
Still think they staged the whole thing though. The fingerprints were left on the window to make you think she couldn't have possibly been that stupid. Reverse psychology innit. Cunning.
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Kate McCann is far from stupid. When staging an abduction opening the window, you don't leave your own finger prints on the window. If the McCann's were so clever to stage an abduction they wouldn't be so stupid as to leave fingerprints.
Why do you keep sarcastically refer to the blowing curtains. Have you read Amaral's book? He says it was windy on the night of the 3rd of May.
Who are we to condemn how Kate behaved after finding her daughter missing. She was obviously in a blind terror and whether she left the children or bundled them up to run to the restaurant, either would show that she was in a state of total shock.
Shit....I agree! To a degree.
The valid reason she didn't 'bundle the twins up' is because there were two of them. It's as simple as that.
Quite why she didn't scream the resort down, however, is another matter.
As is why the weans didnae rouse.
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I'd like to know when my fellow sceptics think Kate McCann found out about Madeleine's demise. Is there any consensus amongst us on that? It's quite an important event in the time line to pinpoint IMO. Don't be shy to share your thoughts!
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Kizzy, you are wrong. Madeleine still lives, or did a few months ago. They want to breed a new Coming of Christ from her; such is her sacred bloodline
OG now believe her still alive and that is why they will not join Wolters in his search. Wolters thinks he has it right, but he is mistaken, she lives. She hasn't physically been hurt as a child appart from depriving her of the love and warmth of her rightful family and home.
The Mccanns were great parents judging by their actions after the abduction and home videos. You are misjudging them. Imo you have been brainwashed by the gawd awful forum that you believed, as have millions of others.
There was organised disinformation and downright lies spread on a massive and pro fessional scale and it is still happening.
Kizzy, please reread my long post. I know that you are sincere but you are wrong. I fear that you have been brainwashed by the mass of organised and beautifully presented vitriolic lies
Amaral lied repeatedly. Why? Was he covering for someone?
Oh Sadie if you knew me in RL you would know I am the last person who could be brainwashed.
I am my own person to the max....if I believe in some thing I stick with it to the end
I started as I said the same as everyone thinking Maddie had been taken.
Then the mccs started to appear.......to me red flags appeared from the first time I saw them...and continued.
I kept it to myself....at first thought it was a scam because convinced they knew Maddie hadn't been abducted
GA book didn't even exist till 2008.
Eventually came across the sun online comments and couldn't believe how many thought the same as me.
I eventually joined in 2007 as it was a kind of forum.... saying the exact same things I am still saying today.
It eventually after a few years closed...every post I make is from my own belief...no one else's.
I hope Sadie by your dedication and strong belief in what you think happened. You will understand mine.
I believe 100% the mccs are involved in what happened to Maddie.
Keep well Sadie x
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Kate McCann is far from stupid. When staging an abduction opening the window, you don't leave your own finger prints on the window. If the McCann's were so clever to stage an abduction they wouldn't be so stupid as to leave fingerprints.
Why do you keep sarcastically refer to the blowing curtains. Have you read Amaral's book? He says it was windy on the night of the 3rd of May.
Who are we to condemn how Kate behaved after finding her daughter missing. She was obviously in a blind terror and whether she left the children or bundled them up to run to the restaurant, either would show that she was in a state of total shock.
Kmc far from stupid.....well seems she did hell of a lot of stupid things.
Where do you start......not mentioning leaving 3 young children on there own
Knew maddie had been abducted Straight away ....yet let 20+ into that apartment.
She searched apartment for 10 min.....yet didn't shut the window....but did when she got back
She ran out even though she could have screamed for help...[apparently it was in sight]
She left that window open curtains going whooosh....wasn't it a cold windy night as well.
photo shows them pinned down behind bed and chair.
Fingerprints hmm seems she could have forgot to wipe same as to jemmy window
Kate McCann is far from stupid.
Then again L you could be right ....there could have been a method in her madness.
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I'd like to know when my fellow sceptics think Kate McCann found out about Madeleine's demise. Is there any consensus amongst us on that? It's quite an important event in the time line to pinpoint IMO. Don't be shy to share your thoughts!
fck knows
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Oh Sadie if you knew me in RL you would know I am the last person who could be brainwashed.
I am my own person to the max....if I believe in some thing I stick with it to the end
I started as I said the same as everyone thinking Maddie had been taken.
Then the mccs started to appear.......to me red flags appeared from the first time I saw them...and continued.
I kept it to myself....at first thought it was a scam because convinced they knew Maddie hadn't been abducted
GA book didn't even exist till 2008.
Eventually came across the sun online comments and couldn't believe how many thought the same as me.
I eventually joined in 2007 as it was a kind of forum.... saying the exact same things I am still saying today.
It eventually after a few years closed...every post I make is from my own belief...no one else's.
I hope Sadie by your dedication and strong belief in what you think happened. You will understand mine.
I believe 100% the mccs are involved in what happened to Maddie.
Keep well Sadie x
I think we can probably agree that she isn't being kept alive by some new world cult to give birth to the new Jesus though.
And that Myster probably isn't Irwin Rommel and isn't my dad.
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Kmc far from stupid.....well seems she did hell of a lot of stupid things.
Where do you start......not mentioning leaving 3 young children on there own
Knew maddie had been abducted Straight away ....yet let 20+ into that apartment.
She searched apartment for 10 min.....yet didn't shut the window....but did when she got back
She ran out even though she could have screamed for help...[apparently it was in sight]
She left that window open curtains going whooosh....wasn't it a cold windy night as well.
photo shows them pinned down behind bed and chair.
Fingerprints hmm seems she could have forgot to wipe same as to jemmy window
Kate McCann is far from stupid.
Then again L you could be right ....there could have been a method in her madness.
Yes they did leave the children by themselves I wouldn't have but they all did. I think they were lulled into a false state
of security when on holiday as seems to happen to a lot of people. A quiet safe child friendly site hardly anyone around seemed ideal didn't it.
I think if I found my child missing from her bed and the window which was always kept shut open then the first thing I would think of is that someone had got into the apartment. I don't blame Kate for thinking Madeleine was abducted as she couldn't find her anywhere. She spent time looking as you would do just in case. Kate said she thought Madeleine could be hiding cowering somewhere away from the person who had came into the bedroom.
Of course she ran. Shouting from the apartment wouldn't guarantee they would hear her or make out what she was saying.
She left everything as it was panic set in.
Curtains pinned behind the bed and chair? How would you manage to close or open the curtains? I wonder if they were in that position after the Police had searched the room.
Yes a finger print on the window left as Kate wasn't faking an abduction, if she had been she'd have wiped it off.
Jemmied window is a saying you would use if you thought someone had broken in. Actually the blinds could be opened from outside so in fact they were broken as they should only be opened from inside.
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fck knows
Disappointing response. Surely you’ve given it some thought over the years, if you believe her complicit (which obviously she is though how she managed not to crack under all that pressure I’ll never know, lol).
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I'd like to know when my fellow sceptics think Kate McCann found out about Madeleine's demise. Is there any consensus amongst us on that? It's quite an important event in the time line to pinpoint IMO. Don't be shy to share your thoughts!
I believe Maddie was already dead before the McCanns booked their holiday.
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I believe Maddie was already dead before the McCanns booked their holiday.
Never in Portugal you mean?
Well that would certainly explain why there's never been any trace of her found there.
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I believe Maddie was already dead before the McCanns booked their holiday.
that doesn’t surprise me.
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It's my new theory about the case.
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What really surprises me is the reluctance to actually try and work out exactly when in the timeline Kate is likely to have discovered Madeleine’s demise. I think we could have a really constructive discussion if we decided
1) she knew before going out to dinner
2) she found out at dinner
3) she found out after doing her last check.
We might even be able to pull together a totally coherent and plausible timeline of events that could finally crack the case.
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It's my new theory about the case.
So the entire Tapas Group were in on it from the outset. OK, let’s examine motive first. Why did they take their dead daughter on holiday with them in your opinion?
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Please stop this conversation now. Thank You.
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Please stop this conversation now. Thank You.
OK, as you asked so nicely.
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OK, as you asked so nicely.
Thank You. Although it wasn't you I was concerned about.
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What really surprises me is the reluctance to actually try and work out exactly when in the timeline Kate is likely to have discovered Madeleine’s demise. I think we could have a really constructive discussion if we decided
1) she knew before going out to dinner
2) she found out at dinner
3) she found out after doing her last check.
We might even be able to pull together a totally coherent and plausible timeline of events that could finally crack the case.
Would you agree that ascertaining a timeline is nigh on impossible now due to the utterly incogruent statements (from most parties)?
In the list you provided, for example, establishing that most of those things even happened is difficult, certainly the 'checking' part.
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Yes they did leave the children by themselves I wouldn't have but they all did. I think they were lulled into a false state
of security when on holiday as seems to happen to a lot of people. A quiet safe child friendly site hardly anyone around seemed ideal didn't it.
I think if I found my child missing from her bed and the window which was always kept shut open then the first thing I would think of is that someone had got into the apartment. I don't blame Kate for thinking Madeleine was abducted as she couldn't find her anywhere. She spent time looking as you would do just in case. Kate said she thought Madeleine could be hiding cowering somewhere away from the person who had came into the bedroom.
Of course she ran. Shouting from the apartment wouldn't guarantee they would hear her or make out what she was saying.
She left everything as it was panic set in.
Curtains pinned behind the bed and chair? How would you manage to close or open the curtains? I wonder if they were in that position after the Police had searched the room.
Yes a finger print on the window left as Kate wasn't faking an abduction, if she had been she'd have wiped it off.
Jemmied window is a saying you would use if you thought someone had broken in. Actually the blinds could be opened from outside so in fact they were broken as they should only be opened from inside.
Curtains pinned behind the bed and chair? How would you manage to close or open the curtains? I wonder if they were in that position after the Police had searched the room.
Maybe look at the photo.....then you would know.
https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/chapter-3-curtains-door-and-windows.html
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What really surprises me is the reluctance to actually try and work out exactly when in the timeline Kate is likely to have discovered Madeleine’s demise. I think we could have a really constructive discussion if we decided
1) she knew before going out to dinner
2) she found out at dinner
3) she found out after doing her last check.
We might even be able to pull together a totally coherent and plausible timeline of events that could finally crack the case.
Some have theory's it happened before the 3rd.
What was odd the first photo of Maddie that was shown next day ....was of Maddie around 2 ish year old
IIRC there was more than 1 timeline.
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Curtains pinned behind the bed and chair? How would you manage to close or open the curtains? I wonder if they were in that position after the Police had searched the room.
Maybe look at the photo.....then you would know.
https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/chapter-3-curtains-door-and-windows.html
I'm not interested in what an crackpot who believes Madeleine died at the start of the week has to say. As for the photo's again were they taken after the Police had sent forensics in?
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Some have theory's it happened before the 3rd.
What was odd the first photo of Maddie that was shown next day ....was of Maddie around 2 ish year old
IIRC there was more than 1 timeline.
The photo showed a clear photo of Madeleine's face along with the eye. Yes more than one timeline did they try to hide that? NO
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I'm not interested in what an crackpot who believes Madeleine died at the start of the week has to say. As for the photo's again were they taken after the Police had sent forensics in?
No I know your not ...........your only interested what you Think happened.
But then again didn't you once say you only come on now and again as a pastime.
Anyway an educated Guess ......I would say the photo was took as a crime scene photo.
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Back in the day investigators made an effort to check out known paedophiles in Luz.
That is procedure in ALL missing children cases worldwide.
Madeleine's case was not solved. It was shelved in 2008. And so it would have remained without without her parent's unrelenting efforts on her behalf which resulted in Scotland Yard opening Madeleine's case in 2013 and the Portuguese reopening her case shortly thereafter.
Both police forces concentrated their efforts on locals all of whom were associated with the holiday apartments of the Ocean Club where the McCann family stayed in 2007.
Like the previous three persons of interest, these arguidos were subject to intensive police scrutiny which resulted in their exoneration from any association with Madeleine's disappearance.
In fact to express the opinion that they have is slander if you say it is and libel if you put it in print.
The investigation into Madelene's disappearance continues until the present day. There is another arguido or prime suspect, in the frame.
This time one who ticks all the boxes absent from the 2007 and the 2013 investigation; not only resident in Luz but a convicted sex offender. One who fits the police profile of the type of individual they were looking for in 2007 and all the years since then.
Yeah - my opinion is that the authorities have learned loads in the intervening years. Only the conspiracy theorists remain stuck in their own wee bubble. Such it always was and as long as there is notoriety and/or money to be made from the McCann family tragedy so it always will be. The benighted will always be there insisting on displaying their ignorance to all comers.
When one wastes a couple of seconds of life in giving them a passing thought their predicament would be truly tragic were they not so retrograde and nasty. Living in the past - and not one's own past, but someone else's must be a bit soul destroying; but having made it one's 'specialist subject' while proving incapable of actually learning something is tremendously sad.
But the irrefutable evidence that some individuals have bookmarked their psyche around a few months in 2007 with guru one even launching diplomas in the hatred has to be marked as extraordinary behaviour. But it takes all sorts.
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Back in the day investigators made an effort to check out known paedophiles in Luz.
That is procedure in ALL missing children cases worldwide.
Madeleine's case was not solved. It was shelved in 2008. And so it would have remained without without her parent's unrelenting efforts on her behalf which resulted in Scotland Yard opening Madeleine's case in 2013 and the Portuguese reopening her case shortly thereafter.
Both police forces concentrated their efforts on locals all of whom were associated with the holiday apartments of the Ocean Club where the McCann family stayed in 2007.
Like the previous three persons of interest, these arguidos were subject to intensive police scrutiny which resulted in their exoneration from any association with Madeleine's disappearance.
In fact to express the opinion that they have is slander if you say it is and libel if you put it in print.
The investigation into Madelene's disappearance continues until the present day. There is another arguido or prime suspect, in the frame.
This time one who ticks all the boxes absent from the 2007 and the 2013 investigation; not only resident in Luz but a convicted sex offender. One who fits the police profile of the type of individual they were looking for in 2007 and all the years since then.
Yeah - my opinion is that the authorities have learned loads in the intervening years. Only the conspiracy theorists remain stuck in their own wee bubble. Such it always was and as long as there is notoriety and/or money to be made from the McCann family tragedy so it always will be. The benighted will always be there insisting on displaying their ignorance to all comers.
When one wastes a couple of seconds of life in giving them a passing thought their predicament would be truly tragic were they not so retrograde and nasty. Living in the past - and not one's own past, but someone else's must be a bit soul destroying; but having made it one's 'specialist subject' while proving incapable of actually learning something is tremendously sad.
But the irrefutable evidence that some individuals have bookmarked their psyche around a few months in 2007 with guru one even launching diplomas in the hatred has to be marked as extraordinary behaviour. But it takes all sorts.
CB was only made arguido by the PJ due to pressure from the Germans as the statute of limitations was about to expire. A technical exercise. Tick box to appease our Teutonic overlords.
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No I know your not ...........your only interested what you Think happened.
But then again didn't you once say you only come on now and again as a pastime.
Anyway an educated Guess ......I would say the photo was took as a crime scene photo.
Ahh - there are just so many who do not 'think' but who 'know' what happened. They even write books and make 'movies' and think they can sleuth it out on thousands of internet blogs.
The truth is they weren't there and they haven't a clue what happened beyond what their infertile brains sometimes feverishly dream up.
On the other hand it is not for anyone to question or criticise why or when members may CHOOSE to contribute to the forum; that is entirely a decision for the member concerned. Members are welcome to post whenever they feel like it or not, as the case might be.
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Ahh - there are just so many who do not 'think' but who 'know' what happened. They even write books and make 'movies' and think they can sleuth it out on thousands of internet blogs.
The truth is they weren't there and they haven't a clue what happened beyond what their infertile brains sometimes feverishly dream up.
On the other hand it is not for anyone to question or criticise why or when members may CHOOSE to contribute to the forum; that is entirely a decision for the member concerned. Members are welcome to post whenever they feel like it or not, as the case might be.
I must entirely agree......everyone is entitled to there theory/opinion.
But Its not right to call them crackpots either......because of there theory/opinion
The truth is though......G,A. was there at the very beginning with an insight as to what was going on at the time
Also with inside information.
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The photo showed a clear photo of Madeleine's face along with the eye. Yes more than one timeline did they try to hide that? NO
The photo was very different to how Maddie looked when she went missing.
It could have also affected any sighting of when Maddie was last seen....
There where IIRC there were discussions about at the time ...the photo resembled M O daughter.
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CB was only made arguido by the PJ due to pressure from the Germans as the statute of limitations was about to expire. A technical exercise. Tick box to appease our Teutonic overlords.
In your opinion only.
Mine is that the PJ are more keen than any others to wipe out the absolute mismanagement and very basic investigative errors over which PJ circa 2007 presided.
If any have learned anything from that debacle it is the Portuguese. Just as they followed SY in 2013 they followed the BKA in 2022. And with any luck the three police forces of England, Germany and Portugal will be able to keep a tremendously dangerous sex offender off the streets and away from women and children.
'Technical' ... Obeisance to 'Overlords' ...
Really don't think so. Today's PJ have a bit of honour to retrieve from the debacle of 2007/8. I'll guarantee they left no stone unturned and couldn't contain themselves when had the evidence to ask the BKA to read Brueckner his rights for them.
The actual narrative is not yours - it is mine; and the truth of the matter is that it was the PJ's turn to play the 'overlord' on that occasion.
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I must entirely agree......everyone is entitled to there theory/opinion.
But Its not right to call them crackpots either......because of there theory/opinion
The truth is though......G,A. was there at the very beginning with an insight as to what was going on at the time
Also with inside information.
Nothing emphasis your lack of understanding gleaned over the years than the suggestion that the arguido Amaral knew anything about about conducting a meaningful investigation into a missing child.
His book is a catalogue of his inadequacies and reflects his incompetence which totally neglected looking for a missing child being too busy with a vendetta against her parents.
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Nothing emphasis your lack of understanding gleaned over the years than the suggestion that the arguido Amaral knew anything about about conducting a meaningful investigation into a missing child.
His book is a catalogue of his inadequacies and reflects his incompetence which totally neglected looking for a missing child being too busy with a vendetta against her parents.
In fairness..as you like to be.
The mccs also had a vendetta against G.A.....making his book a best seller...giving it publicity money couldn't buy.
And is still there for everyone to read why he thought the mccs involved in what happened to Maddie
No one to this day knows what happened to Maddie...so abduction/no abduction... its either one.
Was G.A. on the right track...we dont know either.
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In fairness..as you like to be.
The mccs also had a vendetta against G.A.....making his book a best seller...giving it publicity money couldn't buy.
And is still there for everyone to read why he thought the mccs involved in what happened to Maddie
No one to this day knows what happened to Maddie...so abduction/no abduction... its either one.
Was G.A. on the right track...we dont know either.
I thought you knew she wasn’t abducted? Anyway,Amaral had inside info and he thought Madeleine’s defrosting body was in the back of the hire car. This seems perfectly plausible to me, but we’d really need to figure out where the freezer was that the McC had access first in order to make any further progress in this case. The freezer is the key.
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I thought you knew she wasn’t abducted? Anyway,Amaral had inside info and he thought Madeleine’s defrosting body was in the back of the hire car. This seems perfectly plausible to me, but we’d really need to figure out where the freezer was that the McC had access first in order to make any further progress in this case. The freezer is the key.
OH I don't believe Maddie was abducted....but you have to be fair to those who think she was VS
G.A never got chance to carry on so he would have probably worked it out....we will never know.
Anyroads my thoughts of G.A....... is I believe he he was on the right track.
The key.is the window.......was it open when kmc checked at 10
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I thought you knew she wasn’t abducted? Anyway,Amaral had inside info and he thought Madeleine’s defrosting body was in the back of the hire car. This seems perfectly plausible to me, but we’d really need to figure out where the freezer was that the McC had access first in order to make any further progress in this case. The freezer is the key.
According to Gonçalo Amaral the Freezer was in an empty flat close by and he was just about to expose it when he got distracted by God knows what.
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OH I don't believe Maddie was abducted....but you have to be fair to those who think she was VS
G.A never got chance to carry on so he would have probably worked it out....we will never know.
Anyroads my thoughts of G.A....... is I believe he he was on the right track.
The key.is the window.......was it open when kmc checked at 10
No, the key is the freezer. Work out where it was and how they gained access to it and the rest falls into place. Perhaps there was a freezer somewhere along the route taken by Smithman? Just a thought…
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According to Gonçalo Amaral the Freezer was in an empty flat close by and he was just about to expose it when he got distracted by God knows what.
Well he still has his ace to play, and I expect he is just biding his time until the right moment to play it. Patience! Softly, softly….
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OH I don't believe Maddie was abducted....but you have to be fair to those who think she was VS
G.A never got chance to carry on so he would have probably worked it out....we will never know.
Anyroads my thoughts of G.A....... is I believe he he was on the right track.
The key.is the window.......was it open when kmc checked at 10
Anyway, we know the window was open because Kate McCann said so and as she left her finger prints all over it that proves it. The window is not the key.
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According to Gonçalo Amaral the Freezer was in an empty flat close by and he was just about to expose it when he got distracted by God knows what.
he was just about to expose it when he got distracted by God knows what.
Was it when he got took off the case , maybe
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he was just about to expose it when he got distracted by God knows what.
Was it when he got took off the case , maybe
Quite possibly, but I so then obviously none of work mates thought it was important or even likely.
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Quite possibly, but I so then obviously none of work mates thought it was important or even likely.
Ah, but they were under the cosh of the Brits by then, don’t forget. The PJ weren’t strong enough stand up to their McCann protrcting agenda, which is very unfortunate.
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I really don’t think that Madeleine was ever in the hire car and any DNA of hers or indeed cadaver odour that was detected was obviously cross contamination.
Amaral ceased to be relevant to this case many years ago and while he admittedly made many mistakes it is interesting that his successor Rebelo very much followed the path Amaral had begun by inviting the McCann party to Portugal, an invitation which was rejected, and focusing again on questioning the Tapas friends.
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OH I don't believe Maddie was abducted....but you have to be fair to those who think she was VS
G.A never got chance to carry on so he would have probably worked it out....we will never know.
Anyroads my thoughts of G.A....... is I believe he he was on the right track.
The key.is the window.......was it open when kmc checked at 10
The status of the window whether open or whether closed is an irrelevance. What is of relevance is the fact that a child was missing from her bed.
Amaral was twelve years behind the times in releasing convicted paedophile Christian Bruekner's name into the relevant box; but true to form refused to recognise the significance of the equation regarding missing child/paedophile on the loose.
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According to Gonçalo Amaral the Freezer was in an empty flat close by and he was just about to expose it when he got distracted by God knows what.
Might the distraction have been his drunken slurs causing a diplomatic incident between England and Portugal; or was it his criminal conviction for perjury/falsifying documents to cover up the torture and beating up of a female prisoner to her severe injury, or was it a combination of both
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I really don’t think that Madeleine was ever in the hire car and any DNA of hers or indeed cadaver odour that was detected was obviously cross contamination.
Amaral ceased to be relevant to this case many years ago and while he admittedly made many mistakes it is interesting that his successor Rebelo very much followed the path Amaral had begun by inviting the McCann party to Portugal, an invitation which was rejected, and focusing again on questioning the Tapas friends.
How come defrosted bodily fluids were found in the hire car then? If they weren’t Madeleine’s whose were they?
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Might the distraction have been his drunken slurs causing a diplomatic incident between England and Portugal; or was it his criminal conviction for perjury/falsifying documents to cover up the torture and beating up of a female prisoner to her severe injury, or was it a combination of both
One would think Amaral was following the Scotland Yard playbook, the methods are uncannily similar.
And she didn't have a 'severe injury', she received a 'doing' from fellow prisoners by way of a welcome to the unit extended to all child abusers / killers. Just a bit of rough and tumble.
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One would think Amaral was following the Scotland Yard playbook, the methods are uncannily similar.
And she didn't have a 'severe injury', she received a 'doing' from fellow prisoners by way of a welcome to the unit extended to all child abusers / killers. Just a bit of rough and tumble.
It's a rum bunch who would rather protect the guilty parent of an abused and murdered child than the child themselves but I suppose it takes all sorts.
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One would think Amaral was following the Scotland Yard playbook, the methods are uncannily similar.
And she didn't have a 'severe injury', she received a 'doing' from fellow prisoners by way of a welcome to the unit extended to all child abusers / killers. Just a bit of rough and tumble.
Proved to be untrue by the Prison Governor.
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Quite possibly, but I so then obviously none of work mates thought it was important or even likely.
Could possibly be they had to leave it there...an no longer follow that line of the investigation.
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Ah, but they were under the cosh of the Brits by then, don’t forget. The PJ weren’t strong enough stand up to their McCann protrcting agenda, which is very unfortunate.
Just more or less said the same thing.
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The status of the window whether open or whether closed is an irrelevance. What is of relevance is the fact that a child was missing from her bed.
Amaral was twelve years behind the times in releasing convicted paedophile Christian Bruekner's name into the relevant box; but true to form refused to recognise the significance of the equation regarding missing child/paedophile on the loose.
The status of the window whether open or whether closed is an irrelevance.
Its's not an irrelevance though imo.............if that window was staged so was everything else.
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Might the distraction have been his drunken slurs causing a diplomatic incident between England and Portugal; or was it his criminal conviction for perjury/falsifying documents to cover up the torture and beating up of a female prisoner to her severe injury, or was it a combination of both
The thing is here [G.A. wasn't there] but people die in the UK in police custody.
Not saying its ok.....just saying it happens in all police forces ...at least he was convicted.
It seems not many are in UK an I believe not many police forces also.
Just one example.....there is more. he what was his crime
Christopher, a 37-year-old former paratrooper decorated for service in Northern Ireland, died in police custody at Queens Garden police station on April 1, 1998. He had been arrested for becoming "aggressive" in hospital after he was punched outside a Hull nightclub.
What happened to Christopher Alder?
In August 2000, an inquest jury ruled that Christopher had been unlawfully killed. No-one has been held accountable for his death, with five Humberside Police officers being cleared of manslaughter and misconduct in a public office charges at a criminal trial two years later.30 Mar 2023
He died face down with his trousers around his ankles and his hands cuffed behind his back. CCTV footage from the custody suite captured officers making what were alleged to be monkey noises as Christopher appeared to lay dead on the floor.
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The status of the window whether open or whether closed is an irrelevance.
Its's not an irrelevance though imo.............if that window was staged so was everything else.
The rest of the world and indeed the criminal investigation has moved on from the good old bad old days. There is a coterie which has invested a lot of time and effort in promoting impossible conspiracy theories.
That's fine if they don't interfere with the process of rational thinking and they really don't.
Haven't you noticed that Amaral has vanished from the airwaves after his last stalwart defence of criminality; nobody listens to him anymore.
Anyone who matters has moved with the times and the evidence which was ignored or was unrecognised by Amaral's botched investigation.
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The thing is here [G.A. wasn't there] but people die in the UK in police custody.
Not saying its ok.....just saying it happens in all police forces ...at least he was convicted.
It seems not many are in UK an I believe not many police forces also.
Just one example.....there is more. he what was his crime
Christopher, a 37-year-old former paratrooper decorated for service in Northern Ireland, died in police custody at Queens Garden police station on April 1, 1998. He had been arrested for becoming "aggressive" in hospital after he was punched outside a Hull nightclub.
What happened to Christopher Alder?
In August 2000, an inquest jury ruled that Christopher had been unlawfully killed. No-one has been held accountable for his death, with five Humberside Police officers being cleared of manslaughter and misconduct in a public office charges at a criminal trial two years later.30 Mar 2023
He died face down with his trousers around his ankles and his hands cuffed behind his back. CCTV footage from the custody suite captured officers making what were alleged to be monkey noises as Christopher appeared to lay dead on the floor.
Of relevance to the mismanagement of Madeleine's case is that from day one, the lead detective was himself under investigation for the torture of a prisoner in another missing child case from a village on the outskirts of Luz.
As a result Amaral was removed from Madeleine's investigation, but not unfortunately before irreparable damage has been done.
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Of relevance to the mismanagement of Madeleine's case is that from day one, the lead detective was himself under investigation for the torture of a prisoner in another missing child case from a village on the outskirts of Luz.
As a result Amaral was removed from Madeleine's investigation, but not unfortunately before irreparable damage has been done.
Yes ......you said.....so will repeat what supreme police force are you exactly comparing him with as if these things don't go on elsewhere
investigation for the torture of a prisoner in another missing child case from a village on the outskirts of Luz.
As a result Amaral was removed from Madeleine's investigation, but not unfortunately before irreparable damage has been done.
No.... he wasnt .........he was removed because he criticised the British police,
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The rest of the world and indeed the criminal investigation has moved on from the good old bad old days. There is a coterie which has invested a lot of time and effort in promoting impossible conspiracy theories.
That's fine if they don't interfere with the process of rational thinking and they really don't.
Haven't you noticed that Amaral has vanished from the airwaves after his last stalwart defence of criminality; nobody listens to him anymore.
Anyone who matters has moved with the times and the evidence which was ignored or was unrecognised by Amaral's botched investigation.
How has the world moved on...speak for yourself on that
Do we know where maddie is.....NO.
Do we know what happened to Maddie .....NO.
You may think its moved on with the endless suspects....but in reality mothing more is known than the 3ed May
Why should I be interested wether G.A. is a has been. It doesn't alter the fact I believe he was on the right track.
Mr Amaral was originally the lead detective on the case, but he was removed after criticising British police.
In the news or not ..............he has never been proved wrong or what he thinks happened.
Kate and Gerry McCann lost latest round of legal battle with Goncalo Amaral
Ex-police chief said the couple 'remain suspects' over Maddie's disappearance
Pair had sued cop for libel after he published a book suggesting they were involved in the disappearance of daughter Madeleine in 2007
Nothing changed since then it seems.
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It's a rum bunch who would rather protect the guilty parent of an abused and murdered child than the child themselves but I suppose it takes all sorts.
Says the woman who has busted a gut on this forum supporting the murderer of a teenage girl whilst desperately pointing the finger at the poor girl’s relatives. Your hypocrisy never fails to entertain.
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Just more or less said the same thing.
Great minds think alike eh Kizzy? Now, about those defrosted bodily fluids…
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Great minds think alike eh Kizzy? Now, about those defrosted bodily fluids…
Seems G.A. never got the chance to complete the investigation on them.
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Seems G.A. never got the chance to complete the investigation on them.
And yet as Faithlilly pointed out his successor continued down the path that Amaral was on so what stopped him investigating the defrosted bodily fluids? Oh wait, I forgot! It was the dastardly Brits, protecting those McCanns again. Silly me.
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And yet as Faithlilly pointed out his successor continued down the path that Amaral was on so what stopped him investigating the defrosted bodily fluids? Oh wait, I forgot! It was the dastardly Brits, protecting those McCanns again. Silly me.
What you like........silly billy
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What you like........silly billy
Any thoughts on why the British Government were so keen to protect the McCanns? Do you suspect some high level paedo ring, or perhaps Masonic involvement, or maybe it was Gerry’s top secret work at Porton Down? Whatever it was the McCanns must have enormous influence at a very high level at least we can both agree on that. Who’da thunk it of two seemingly ordinary doctors?!
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Any thoughts on why the British Government were so keen to protect the McCanns? Do you suspect some high level paedo ring, or perhaps Masonic involvement, or maybe it was Gerry’s top secret work at Porton Down? Whatever it was the McCanns must have enormous influence at a very high level at least we can both agree on that. Who’da thunk it of two seemingly ordinary doctors?!
Well strangely enough I don't think It is the mccs who are being protected.
My thoughts on that is - its more likely DP.
forgot to press send on this at the time... but due to discussion elsewhere decided to post.
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Well strangely enough I don't think It is the mccs who are being protected.
My thoughts on that is - its more likely DP.
forgot to press send on this at the time... but due to discussion elsewhere decided to post.
Oh give over!!
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No one was being protected. Amaral said the British were against him earlier on he said the British agreed with him. Which is it? He made out the McCann's were being protected when he was taken off the case. An excuse for messing uo the case. Poor me.
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No one was being protected. Amaral said the British were against him earlier on he said the British agreed with him. Which is it? He made out the McCann's were being protected when he was taken off the case. An excuse for messing uo the case. Poor me.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you're doing OK.
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So much emphasis on the children so happy so angelic had such a great day such a great time such a happy family all this positive is over the top.....far too much minor detail/observance...especially from a male.
It seems to me reading it he expected the kids were in some sort of trouble ...or why mention that they wasnt.
this statement was made almost a year later. 11/04/2008
Gerry's just obviously finishing off playing tennis and err so you know hopefully try and get them down and as I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn't, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there's, there's you know nothing that normally''
1485 "Yeah.'
00:38:36 Reply "Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err''
1485 "Try to remember where in, where they were in the apartment.'
Reply "Err, I mean the, the time that I was there err you know all, all of them err all the children and Kate were in the, err as soon as you go through the patio doors err you know they were all in the immediate area you know in front of you, err that was the area that they generally, you know when I saw them, so I didn't, no I didn't go any further into the apartment, you know it was just a conversation that I like, you know walked into the, you know through the French doors, I went into the lounge err you know the open plan area and err you know just had a brief conversation, you know things started off by as I say, saying about the, how well they looked and you know, it's early to get them ready for bed and then I said oh Gerry's, you know just finished over there, we're going over to play a bit of tennis, err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on, and err you know perhaps a bit more of a conversation err but you know it, it wasn't many minutes that I was, was there.'
1485 "Yeah.'
00:39:55 Reply "But err certainly enough time just to see, you know, certainly the apartment, there was nothing that was untoward, that was you know err the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know Kate, you know or indeed the relationship that Kate had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around. Err so you know it was just a very err transient you know that I'd gone in there, but as I say it just struck me how well they all looked.'
1485 "Yeah.'
Reply "And content I suppose is the other word to use.'
1485 "Did you actually go into the apartment''
Reply "I did.'
1485 "Or did you do the conversation from the door''
Reply "No, definitely was inside the apartment, you know whether it be two or three steps into the apartment or you know however many, but I was definitely in the apartment.'
00:41:00 1485 "Okay, so now what I'm gonna try and ask you to recollect, what everybody was wearing.'
Reply "I'm afraid that is, you know I'm, I cannot recall at all. I know that's, you'd think that'd be an obvious thing to remember, I cannot remember. As I say the, from the children point of view predominantly I can remember the, you know, white, but I couldn't say exactly what they were wearing. Err''
1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
Reply "I can't, no.'
1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child''
Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.'
1485 "And were they standing up' Sitting down''
Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.'
1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you''
Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I'm very sure that if you'd have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they'd all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we'd all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I'd be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she'd definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.'
1485 "Yeah. Was that the last time you saw Madeleine''
Wonder why kmcc wasn't happy about going on the holiday in the first place,
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So much emphasis on the children so happy so angelic had such a great day such a great time such a happy family all this positive is over the top.....far too much minor detail/observance...especially from a male.
It seems to me reading it he expected the kids were in some sort of trouble ...or why mention that they wasnt.
this statement was made almost a year later. 11/04/2008
Gerry's just obviously finishing off playing tennis and err so you know hopefully try and get them down and as I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn't, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there's, there's you know nothing that normally''
1485 "Yeah.'
00:38:36 Reply "Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err''
1485 "Try to remember where in, where they were in the apartment.'
Reply "Err, I mean the, the time that I was there err you know all, all of them err all the children and Kate were in the, err as soon as you go through the patio doors err you know they were all in the immediate area you know in front of you, err that was the area that they generally, you know when I saw them, so I didn't, no I didn't go any further into the apartment, you know it was just a conversation that I like, you know walked into the, you know through the French doors, I went into the lounge err you know the open plan area and err you know just had a brief conversation, you know things started off by as I say, saying about the, how well they looked and you know, it's early to get them ready for bed and then I said oh Gerry's, you know just finished over there, we're going over to play a bit of tennis, err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on, and err you know perhaps a bit more of a conversation err but you know it, it wasn't many minutes that I was, was there.'
1485 "Yeah.'
00:39:55 Reply "But err certainly enough time just to see, you know, certainly the apartment, there was nothing that was untoward, that was you know err the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know Kate, you know or indeed the relationship that Kate had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around. Err so you know it was just a very err transient you know that I'd gone in there, but as I say it just struck me how well they all looked.'
1485 "Yeah.'
Reply "And content I suppose is the other word to use.'
1485 "Did you actually go into the apartment''
Reply "I did.'
1485 "Or did you do the conversation from the door''
Reply "No, definitely was inside the apartment, you know whether it be two or three steps into the apartment or you know however many, but I was definitely in the apartment.'
00:41:00 1485 "Okay, so now what I'm gonna try and ask you to recollect, what everybody was wearing.'
Reply "I'm afraid that is, you know I'm, I cannot recall at all. I know that's, you'd think that'd be an obvious thing to remember, I cannot remember. As I say the, from the children point of view predominantly I can remember the, you know, white, but I couldn't say exactly what they were wearing. Err''
1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
Reply "I can't, no.'
1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child''
Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.'
1485 "And were they standing up' Sitting down''
Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.'
1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you''
Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I'm very sure that if you'd have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they'd all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we'd all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I'd be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she'd definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.'
1485 "Yeah. Was that the last time you saw Madeleine''
Wonder why kmcc wasn't happy about going on the holiday in the first place,
The topic of this thread is
Re: Have we learned anything new after almost 16 years?
Do please make the effort if you understand the forum protocol regarding
- On Topic posting
- Posting topics without Libel or innuendo of Libel
-
The topic of this thread is
Re: Have we learned anything new after almost 16 years?
Do please make the effort if you understand the forum protocol regarding
- On Topic posting
- Posting topics without Libel or innuendo of Libel
If I was so inclined I could find 3 dozens instances in the last month.
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The topic of this thread is
Re: Have we learned anything new after almost 16 years?
Do please make the effort if you understand the forum protocol regarding
- On Topic posting
- Posting topics without Libel or innuendo of Libel
Well I think what we have learned new is there have been countless suspects who have all resulted in zilch charges - of the abduction of Maddie.
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Have they learned anything new in almost 18 years.
The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) received up to £192,000 in 2024–2025 for the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. This was granted by the Home Office through special grant funding.
So who is looking for Maddie now - what is the special grant funding being spent on
How is this being spent...latest figures
ByMartin FrickerSenior Reporter
09:47, 23 Dec 2024
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Bookmark
A fighting fund set up to help find Madeleine McCann has seen its value soar to over £1m for the first time since the year after she disappeared.
The bulk of the value of the ‘Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd’ fund has been invested in stocks and shares. The portfolio increased from £848,305 to £955,334 in the 12 months up to March this year thanks to stock market successes.
The total value of the fund is now £1,028,753, up from £921,819 a year ago. It is the first time it has exceeded £1m since 2008, when hundreds of thousands of pounds were being donated by well-wishers.
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Have they learned anything new in almost 18 years.
The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) received up to £192,000 in 2024–2025 for the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. This was granted by the Home Office through special grant funding.
So who is looking for Maddie now - what is the special grant funding being spent on
How is this being spent...latest figures
ByMartin FrickerSenior Reporter
09:47, 23 Dec 2024
|
Bookmark
A fighting fund set up to help find Madeleine McCann has seen its value soar to over £1m for the first time since the year after she disappeared.
The bulk of the value of the ‘Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd’ fund has been invested in stocks and shares. The portfolio increased from £848,305 to £955,334 in the 12 months up to March this year thanks to stock market successes.
The total value of the fund is now £1,028,753, up from £921,819 a year ago. It is the first time it has exceeded £1m since 2008, when hundreds of thousands of pounds were being donated by well-wishers.
More interested in inflating their portfolio than looking for wee Maddie.
The last thing they need is an innocent hobo on their hands.
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More interested in inflating their portfolio than looking for wee Maddie.
The last thing they need is an innocent hobo on their hands.
At what point do you think they will be able to start spending all that lovely moolah on themselves then? Explain how that will work, with the eyes of the world (or the eyes of a few sad deranged McCann sceptics at any rate) firmly fixed on the Funds accounts from now until the End of Days?
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Who is actually looking after the fund is it the McCann's ?
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At what point do you think they will be able to start spending all that lovely moolah on themselves then? Explain how that will work, with the eyes of the world (or the eyes of a few sad deranged McCann sceptics at any rate) firmly fixed on the Funds accounts from now until the End of Days?
The funds are to be distributed to similar charities.
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Who is actually looking after the fund is it the McCann's ?
It's the board. Gerry and Kate are on the board.
Along with Brian Kennedy, Keith Chegwin and the alive Chuckle Brother, Tony.
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The funds are to be distributed to similar charities.
Right, so explain why they want to keep the focus off the German hobo then. Is it because they are determined to raise as much money as possible for various charities? Is that their sneaky and cruel motivation in your view?
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It's the board. Gerry and Kate are on the board.
Along with Brian Kennedy, Keith Chegwin and the alive Chuckle Brother, Tony.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Cheggers went to the Big Swap Shop In The Sky a while back.
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Right, so explain why they want to keep the focus off the German hobo then. Is it because they are determined to raise as much money as possible for various charities? Is that their sneaky and cruel motivation in your view?
quote
The MCs' main argument for suing GA was that, as he thought M was dead, no one was looking for her any more. Despite GA's key point that M had not been abducted and the total absence of evidence, the media, the authorities and those in the know continued to talk about M's abduction, never about her death.
Until, more than 4 years ago, HCW proclaimed to anyone who would listen that he had evidence that M was dead
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quote
The MCs' main argument for suing GA was that, as he thought M was dead, no one was looking for her any more. Despite GA's key point that M had not been abducted and the total absence of evidence, the media, the authorities and those in the know continued to talk about M's abduction, never about her death.
Until, more than 4 years ago, HCW proclaimed to anyone who would listen that he had evidence that M was dead
And your point is…?
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And your point is…?
Well you just proved a point......do you know anything that is going on ...or are your posts just a deflection.
The MCs' main argument for suing GA was that, as he thought M was dead, no one was looking for her any more
yet no problem HCW saying it ...so no one now looking for Maddie.
Until, more than 4 years ago, HCW proclaimed to anyone who would listen that he had evidence that M was dead
Now if he has evidence....he should show it ...the fund should be closed and shared with other charity's OK
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Well you just proved a point......do you know anything that is going on ...or are your posts just a deflection.
The MCs' main argument for suing GA was that, as he thought M was dead, no one was looking for her any more
yet no problem HCW saying it ...so no one now looking for Maddie.
Until, more than 4 years ago, HCW proclaimed to anyone who would listen that he had evidence that M was dead
Now if he has evidence....he should show it ...the fund should be closed and shared with other charity's OK
What has got to do with my question which was addressed to The General anyway? You appear to be answering a question I did not ask but thanks for your input, always a pleasure to read your words of incredible wisdom and insight.
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Who is actually looking after the fund is it the McCann's ?
Can they be trusted to look after the fund ?
They couldn't be trusted to look after Maddie.
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Right, so explain why they want to keep the focus off the German hobo then. Is it because they are determined to raise as much money as possible for various charities? Is that their sneaky and cruel motivation in your view?
Well they, their spokeperson / source, when pressed have trotted out the same adage, 'we're still looking for Maddie', while HCW's circus of ineptitide has rolled on in the background.
He maintains he's wrote to them explaining his deranged, opportune hobo theory; they state they've never received a letter.
The point being, they are distancing themselves from it, and, in the absence of a suitable reason for this stance and fuelled by sensationalist tabloid headlines, Joe Public will point at the fund and put two and two together.
That fund is significant and never publishes full accounts (allegedly) and as a limited company there are myriad ways to 'redistribute' funds, although there's no suggestion any director has been remunerated to date.
TL/DR: McCann's still looking for Maddie, fund continues to grow through investments, can be dispersed upon dissolvement.
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Well they, their spokeperson / source, when pressed have trotted out the same adage, 'we're still looking for Maddie', while HCW's circus of ineptitide has rolled on in the background.
He maintains he's wrote to them explaining his deranged, opportune hobo theory; they state they've never received a letter.
The point being, they are distancing themselves from it, and, in the absence of a suitable reason for this stance and fuelled by sensationalist tabloid headlines, Joe Public will point at the fund and put two and two together.
That fund is significant and never publishes full accounts (allegedly) and as a limited company there are myriad ways to 'redistribute' funds, although there's no suggestion any director has been remunerated to date.
TL/DR: McCann's still looking for Maddie, fund continues to grow through investments, can be dispersed upon dissolvement.
They’ve been sitting on the best part of a million pounds for one and a half decades now. At what point do you think they are actually going to cash in? And please do explain how they could possibly cash in without anyone noticing. Perhaps build a swimming. pool complex like Captain Tom’s daughter did? That worked out well for her didn’t it? Hardly anyone noticed that did they. Be honest now. If they were the evil fraudsters you pretend to believe they are they would fully support the notion of pinning it on a patsy, and after the patsy had gone to jail and their names cleared forever more they could then “redistribute funds” to their hearts content. No one is presently sending in donations, the book generated a couple of grand (revenue for which they would still continue to earn) and most growth in the fund comes from investments. Use your noggin General, there is no way it makes any sense to be guilty as sin and not support the notion of pinning it all on some hapless hobo.
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They’ve been sitting on the best part of a million pounds for one and a half decades now. At what point do you think they are actually going to cash in? And please do explain how they could possibly cash in without anyone noticing. Perhaps build a swimming. pool complex like Captain Tom’s daughter did? That worked out well for her didn’t it? Hardly anyone noticed that did they. Be honest now. If they were the evil fraudsters you pretend to believe they are they would fully support the notion of pinning it on a patsy, and after the patsy had gone to jail and their names cleared forever more they could then “redistribute funds” to their hearts content. No one is presently sending in donations, the book generated a couple of grand (revenue for which they would still continue to earn) and most growth in the fund comes from investments. Use your noggin General, there is no way it makes any sense to be guilty as sin and not support the notion of pinning it all on some hapless hobo.
Now there's an idea - a MM memorial Centre attached to the house.
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Now there's an idea - a MM memorial Centre attached to the house.
Yes, good idea except it would probably provoke a national outcry and heap even more hatred on the McCanns than ever before. So I don’t think that’s very likely to happen. Perhaps you can suggest alternative ways they could personally benefit from the fund without anyone cottoning on.
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Miscellaneous Expenses. All below board.
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Yes, good idea except it would probably provoke a national outcry and heap even more hatred on the McCanns than ever before. So I don’t think that’s very likely to happen. Perhaps you can suggest alternative ways they could personally benefit from the fund without anyone cottoning on.
Apparently there's only a handful of [ censored word ]s so I can't see there being a national outcry, more likely a collective sigh of indifference.
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Now there's an idea - a MM memorial Centre attached to the house.
With a spa, obviously.
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Miscellaneous Expenses. All below board.
These could be claimed whether or not the case was closed with a successful conviction of a hapless hobo right? So does not go any way at all to explaining why the McCanns haven’t apparently welcomed the news of a convenient patsy to erase any lingering doubts that they may have been involved.
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Apparently there's only a handful of [ censored word ]s so I can't see there being a national outcry, more likely a collective sigh of indifference.
Don’t worry, the tabs would have an absolute field day if there was any hint of misappropriation of fund money and the ranks of your army would grow again exponentially.
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With a spa, obviously.
To include a cinema area for playing McCann-friendly documentaries and a giftshop area for all MM-related tat
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These could be claimed whether or not the case was closed with a successful conviction of a hapless hobo right? So does not go any way at all to explaining why the McCanns haven’t apparently welcomed the news of a convenient patsy to erase any lingering doubts that they may have been involved.
Public perception.
In reality the fund is a sideshow now. Apart from it being obselete, given that there's no 'investigation' being conducted, it is a going concern and has been the minute they decided to start investing.
The point being, investing is fraught with risk, so one could argue that they're gambling donations from the public, albeit seemingly moderately successfully. We've seen this last couple of days how quickly the value of investments can be obliterated, so it's a valid point.
But to answer the question, benefits in kind (company cars, private medical insurance, or subsidised travel) and reimbursed expenses (No tax liability arises on reimbursed expenses if properly documented) aren't generally itemised in published accounts, so this could be a vehicle to extract money legally. *
*The General is not stating that this is the case, but merely pointing out tax efficient, legal options. Other options are available. Your home is at risk if you set fire to it.
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Public perception.
In reality the fund is a sideshow now. Apart from it being obselete, given that there's no 'investigation' being conducted, it is a going concern and has been the minute they decided to start investing.
The point being, investing is fraught with risk, so one could argue that they're gambling donations from the public, albeit seemingly moderately successfully. We've seen this last couple of days how quickly the value of investments can be obliterated, so it's a valid point.
But to answer the question, benefits in kind (company cars, private medical insurance, or subsidised travel) and reimbursed expenses (No tax liability arises on reimbursed expenses if properly documented) aren't generally itemised in published accounts, so this could be a vehicle to extract money legally. *
*The General is not stating that this is the case, but merely pointing out tax efficient, legal options. Other options are available. Your home is at risk if you set fire to it.
You're still side-stepping the question. What has any of this to do with the McCanns apparent distaste for the German investigation? You and your lot have cited a desire to keep raking in the cash as the primary motivator for not wanting a successful conviction of a convenient patsy. I have tried to explain how that theory is nonsensical but clearly I haven't done a good enough job. If the McCanns are only in it for the money then whether or not there is a successful patsy conviction is immaterial. They still have control of all that luvverly lolly either way and could still diddle the funds with CB doing a 20 year stretch. That being the case why would they not want someone else proven guilty for the crimes they themselves committed? It's surely the cherry on top of the huge pieful of cash is it not? A pie that they can pretend to slice up for various charities whilst secretly gorging themselves silly on the yummy rich contents without a soul realising with the added bonus of being cleared once and for all of all their heinous crimes.
So - now do you get it or are you sticking to your illogical guns??
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To include a cinema area for playing McCann-friendly documentaries and a giftshop area for all MM-related tat
They've had seventeen years to market Madeleine related tat but I have to say though that their marketing team has badly dropped the ball on that one as the wristbands went out of stock around 2008. That said, another advantage of a successful conviction of the patsy (which apparently they aren't keen on for inexplicable reasons know only to themselves - and the General) is that Kate could write a new book or add extra chapters to her existing one detailing everything they had been through up to that point and bringing the story to closure. Kerching, loads more money to spend on swimming pools and cinemas, but no, they don't want closure, they just want to drift on aimlessly, never cleared of suspicion by the nasty trolls on the internet, never being able to simply just get on with the rest of the lives because well, they simply love living in purgatory obviously!
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You're still side-stepping the question. What has any of this to do with the McCanns apparent distaste for the German investigation? You and your lot have cited a desire to keep raking in the cash as the primary motivator for not wanting a successful conviction of a convenient patsy. I have tried to explain how that theory is nonsensical but clearly I haven't done a good enough job. If the McCanns are only in it for the money then whether or not there is a successful patsy conviction is immaterial. They still have control of all that luvverly lolly either way and could still diddle the funds with CB doing a 20 year stretch. That being the case why would they not want someone else proven guilty for the crimes they themselves committed? It's surely the cherry on top of the huge pieful of cash is it not? A pie that they can pretend to slice up for various charities whilst secretly gorging themselves silly on the yummy rich contents without a soul realising with the added bonus of being cleared once and for all of all their heinous crimes.
So - now do you get it or are you sticking to your illogical guns??
There's too much MACA hyperbole, angst and exaggeration in your post to do it justice.
If you pare it down I may be able to assist.
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There's too much MACA hyperbole, angst and exaggeration in your post to do it justice.
If you pare it down I may be able to assist.
Sorry, your tendency to overblown exaggeration and verbosity must have rubbed off on me. I think you got the gist nonetheless and are simply unable to come up with anything approaching a logical explanation for why two guilty people would not warmly embrace the German investigation if it meant someone else went down for years for the crime they themselves committed. Saying "because of the fund" is illogical. It makes no sense. A successful conviction of a patsy could even result in MORE money coming in as my previous post mentions. And - they can misappropriate funds with a patsy in jail no problem, nothing stopping them (apart from obviously everything that's stopped them doing so in the last 17 years).
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Sorry, your tendency to overblown exaggeration and verbosity must have rubbed off on me. I think you got the gist nonetheless and are simply unable to come up with anything approaching a logical explanation for why two guilty people would not warmly embrace the German investigation if it meant someone else went down for years for the crime they themselves committed. Saying "because of the fund" is illogical. It makes no sense. A successful conviction of a patsy could even result in MORE money coming in as my previous post mentions. And - they can misappropriate funds with a patsy in jail no problem, nothing stopping them (apart from obviously everything that's stopped them doing so in the last 17 years).
Let me ruminate on it. It's actually quite complex the more I think about it.
I will say this, some aspects of this case, some 'evidence', clues, reports, statements may seem pertinent, but won't be but may be intriguing in and of themselves. 'Red herrings' to coin Kate's phrase (even this has been picked apart - see, now I'm at it).
As with the 'plausible explanation' I just wrote on the other live thread on this dying portal, sometimes it's just coincidence. Murat, for example, for all the Tapas finger-pointing, it turns out that he's just an odd bloke who speaks the lingo, probably injected himself into it busy-body style and got bummed by Jane and Russell for his trouble. Coincidence.
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Let me ruminate on it. It's actually quite complex the more I think about it.
I will say this, some aspects of this case, some 'evidence', clues, reports, statements may seem pertinent, but won't be but may be intriguing in and of themselves. 'Red herrings' to coin Kate's phrase (even this has been picked apart - see, now I'm at it).
As with the 'plausible explanation' I just wrote on the other live thread on this dying portal, sometimes it's just coincidence. Murat, for example, for all the Tapas finger-pointing, it turns out that he's just an odd bloke who speaks the lingo, probably injected himself into it busy-body style and got bummed by Jane and Russell for his trouble. Coincidence.
Right, well I'll look forward immensely to your wise ruminations on the subject....in due course (meanwhile going puce in the face holding brreath with anticipation).
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Right, well I'll look forward immensely to your wise ruminations on the subject....in due course (meanwhile going puce in the face holding brreath with anticipation).
...and with good reason.
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...and with good reason.
Still waiting, and getting pucer.
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Still waiting, and getting pucer.
I will publish my interim findings at 09.00am (GMT) on Tuesday 4 February.
Feel free to exhale.
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Who is actually looking after the fund is it the McCann's ?
Why would you ask that....but anyway they sure are.
As already said they should have done a better job looking after Maddie.
Or at least use it to look for Maddie.
At the moment it seems no one is looking for her.
The total value of the fund is now £1,028,753, up from £921,819 a year ago. It is the first time it has exceeded £1m since 2008, when hundreds of thousands of pounds were being donated by well-wishers.
So seems non of it getting spent on any search....oh but
The bulk of the value of the ‘Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd’ fund has been invested in stocks and shares. The portfolio increased from £848,305 to £955,334 in the 12 months up to March this year thanks to stock market successes.
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Why would you ask that....but anyway they sure are.
As already said they should have done a better job looking after Maddie.
Or at least use it to look for Maddie.
At the moment it seems no one is looking for her.
The total value of the fund is now £1,028,753, up from £921,819 a year ago. It is the first time it has exceeded £1m since 2008, when hundreds of thousands of pounds were being donated by well-wishers.
So seems non of it getting spent on any search....oh but
The bulk of the value of the ‘Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd’ fund has been invested in stocks and shares. The portfolio increased from £848,305 to £955,334 in the 12 months up to March this year thanks to stock market successes.
There are three Police forces conducting an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance incase you've forgotten. They wouldn't want in any way to obstruct this investigation,
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Don't you believe it. 2 of them are just sitting on the sideline watching the third make a fool of itself.
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Don't you believe it. 2 of them are just sitting on the sideline watching the third make a fool of itself.
That's your jaundiced view of the situation. The truth of the matter is you have no idea how the Portuguese or British police view the German investigation and don't pretend otherwise.
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Just admit it, they're doing zilch. Left the heavy lifting to the Germans years ago.
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There are three Police forces conducting an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance incase you've forgotten. They wouldn't want in any way to obstruct this investigation,
So that's your opinion....well.
How do you know 3 police forces are looking for an alive Maddie.
Wasn't they working with Germans then... who are suppose to have evidence Maddie was murdered
Police in three countries are in a race against the clock to find evidence against Brueckner. But in a devastating blow to Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry, prosecutors warned charges are not imminent.
Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters told Sky News: “There is currently no prospect of an indictment in the Maddie case. As things stand, the accused’s imprisonment will end in early September.”
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There are three Police forces conducting an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance incase you've forgotten. They wouldn't want in any way to obstruct this investigation,
If I may interject: I have to be honest, I don't think Operation Grange is actively investigating, per se, but may be manning the phones, nip to the chippy at dinner, stick a few bets on, nip out for a pint, come back, lock up, fck off.
In all seriousness, at this point, Shirley it's an admin exercise, nothing more.
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Just admit it, they're doing zilch. Left the heavy lifting to the Germans years ago.
Look at that panned out. Sheer folly. Never trust a German (apart from Klopp).
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So that's your opinion....well.
How do you know 3 police forces are looking for an alive Maddie.
Wasn't they working with Germans then... who are suppose to have evidence Maddie was murdered
Police in three countries are in a race against the clock to find evidence against Brueckner. But in a devastating blow to Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry, prosecutors warned charges are not imminent.
Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters told Sky News: “There is currently no prospect of an indictment in the Maddie case. As things stand, the accused’s imprisonment will end in early September.”
It was only 2 weeks ago he was telling the world 'zerr arr no time no budget conztraintz'. Can't get anything right, old Hansie.
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Just admit it, they're doing zilch. Left the heavy lifting to the Germans years ago.
I won't pretend to know what they are or aren't doing, unlike you.
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I won't pretend to know what they are or aren't doing, unlike you.
Its obvious that they aredoing nothing, because the Germans have it all in hand.
OG have no jurisdiction to do anything other to juggle paperwork and rearrange the office furniture.
Even the boss spends his time on more productive activities
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So that's your opinion....well.
How do you know 3 police forces are looking for an alive Maddie.
Wasn't they working with Germans then... who are suppose to have evidence Maddie was murdered
Police in three countries are in a race against the clock to find evidence against Brueckner. But in a devastating blow to Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry, prosecutors warned charges are not imminent.
Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters told Sky News: “There is currently no prospect of an indictment in the Maddie case. As things stand, the accused’s imprisonment will end in early September.”
I said three Police forces are INVESTIGATING Madeleine's disappearance.
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Its obvious that they aredoing nothing, because the Germans have it all in hand.
OG have no jurisdiction to do anything other to juggle paperwork and rearrange the office furniture.
Even the boss spends his time on more productive activities
Sorry, which boss are you referring to? And why would they need to constantly rearrange office furniture? You still haven't convinced me you have any insight into what's going on behind the scenes, because what's obvious to you isn't actually supported by anything remotely approaching evidence. We do know Operation Grange continues to receive funding and I'm sure it doesn't cost the best part of £200k to move furniture around the office, unless it's on a daily basis and they're employing Pickfords each time.
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Sorry, which boss are you referring to? And why would they need to constantly rearrange office furniture? You still haven't convinced me you have any insight into what's going on behind the scenes, because what's obvious to you isn't actually supported by anything remotely approaching evidence. We do know Operation Grange continues to receive funding and I'm sure it doesn't cost the best part of £200k to move furniture around the office, unless it's on a daily basis and they're employing Pickfords each time.
I'm here to express my opinion. not here to convince you of anything.
The boss in question is the current DCI - if there still is one.
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I'm here to express my opinion. not here to convince you of anything.
The boss in question is the current DCI - if there still is one.
An opinion stated as a fact and without any evidence to back it up is pretty worthless imo but thanks for sharing.
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Sorry, which boss are you referring to? And why would they need to constantly rearrange office furniture? You still haven't convinced me you have any insight into what's going on behind the scenes, because what's obvious to you isn't actually supported by anything remotely approaching evidence. We do know Operation Grange continues to receive funding and I'm sure it doesn't cost the best part of £200k to move furniture around the office, unless it's on a daily basis and they're employing Pickfords each time.
We do know Operation Grange continues to receive funding
Why do you think they getting that if they are supose to be working with the Germans ...all 4 of them
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An opinion stated as a fact and without any evidence to back it up is pretty worthless imo but thanks for sharing.
Come on now, if there was any evidence of OG or PJ doing anything , Clark and Bunting would be all over it as they have been in the past.
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Come on now, if there was any evidence of OG or PJ doing anything , Clark and Bunting would be all over it as they have been in the past.
Who is Bunting? we know next to nothing about what Op Grange have been doing for the last 10 years (apart from what they choose to tell us, and what you have told us about the furniture moving).
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We do know Operation Grange continues to receive funding
Why do you think they getting that if they are supose to be working with the Germans ...all 4 of them
Because I doubt they would be happy to do the work for free. Derrrrr…..
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Who is Bunting? we know next to nothing about what Op Grange have been doing for the last 10 years (apart from what they choose to tell us, and what you have told us about the furniture moving).
I had a senior moment but you know who I mean - that Sky chappie , whatever his name is
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I had a senior moment but you know who I mean - that Sky chappie , whatever his name is
Oh Brunt, ok.
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I'll be getting out the bunting when Brueckner is free.
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I'll be getting out the bunting when Brueckner is free.
have you considered doing a road trip with him in one of his campervans when he gets out? You could both head out east and have a great time, catching something small and making it suffer for days. Think of the fun you could have with your fave paedo Spam!
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Now there's an idea - a MM memorial Centre attached to the house.
Or perhaps it’s for lawyers…just in case?
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Or perhaps it’s for lawyers…just in case?
@)(++(* keep dreaming baby.
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@)(++(* keep dreaming baby.
Well, the reality is.
GA... the dogs... and now HCW all believe Maddie is dead.
After all this time we still don't know how ..or what happened to Maddie
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Well, the reality is.
GA... the dogs... and now HCW all believe Maddie is dead.
After all this time we still don't know how ..or what happened to Maddie
I believe she’s dead too but I don’t believe the dogs ever expressed their views on the matter.
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I believe she’s dead too but I don’t believe the dogs ever expressed their views on the matter.
What ever we believe and 3 police forces according to the mccs Maddie is still alive..same as she was abducted.
Wonder if HCW knew about the dogs ...or DNA.
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What ever we believe and 3 police forces according to the mccs Maddie is still alive..same as she was abducted.
Wonder if HCW knew about the dogs ...or DNA.
I didn’t understand your first sentence and HCW will know about the dogs and the DNA of that I’m pretty certain.
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I didn’t understand your first sentence and HCW will know about the dogs and the DNA of that I’m pretty certain.
The 3 police forces are working on the theory Maddie is dead...[hate typing that]
Yet the mcs still believe Maddie is still alive...so wonder who they will be looking for next.
Why would HCW know about dogs/dna .if he is convinced CB took a live Maddie from the apartment.
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The 3 police forces are working on the theory Maddie is dead...[hate typing that]
Yet the mcs still believe Maddie is still alive...so wonder who they will be looking for next.
Why would HCW know about dogs/dna .if he is convinced CB took a live Maddie from the apartment.
I don’t think the McCanns believe Madeleine is definitely alive, only that all the while they haven’t been presented with evidence that she is dead that they will continue to hope that she is alive. Who knows, this might already have happened now.
Everyone remotely interested in this case knows about the dogs and the dna. They made headlines around the world. It would be literally incredible if HCW was unaware of the facts of the case he is investigating. But why don’t you reach out to his office to let him know, just in case? He might drop everything and become a sceptic like you. Lol.
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I don’t think the McCanns believe Madeleine is definitely alive, only that all the while they haven’t been presented with evidence that she is dead that they will continue to hope that she is alive. Who knows, this might already have happened now.
Everyone remotely interested in this case knows about the dogs and the dna. They made headlines around the world. It would be literally incredible if HCW was unaware of the facts of the case he is investigating. But why don’t you reach out to his office to let him know, just in case? He might drop everything and become a sceptic like you. Lol.
Why do you think they haven’t closed the fund and given the money to similar causes?
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Why do you think they haven’t closed the fund and given the money to similar causes?
Because they don't want to.
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Why do you think they haven’t closed the fund and given the money to similar causes?
Because the case hasn’t been solved and a perpetrator brought to justice yet. Why do you think they haven’t fully embraced the German investigation and taken every opportunity to express support for the idea that CB is responsible for?
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Because the case hasn’t been solved and a perpetrator brought to justice yet. Why do you think they haven’t fully embraced the German investigation and taken every opportunity to express support for the idea that CB is responsible for?
What could they possibly do with the money that hasn’t been done by the Met, the Germans, the Portuguese et al?
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What could they possibly do with the money that hasn’t been done by the Met, the Germans, the Portuguese et al?
lol, how did I know you wouldn’t answer my question even though I very courteously answered yours? Why are you so rude? Two more questions for you to ignore there.
I have no idea what their plans are for the money. Why don’t you write to them and ask if it irks you so. Do you think they could make use of it to build an extension and go on a world cruise without anyone noticing? Another question for you to ignore.
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lol, how did I know you wouldn’t answer my question even though I very courteously answered yours? Why are you so rude? Two more questions for you to ignore there.
I have no idea what their plans are for the money. Why don’t you write to them and ask if it irks you so. Do you think they could make use of it to build an extension and go on a world cruise without anyone noticing? Another question for you to ignore.
No. I think they should give the money to other families who are in the same situation but do not have access to the same funding streams the parents had. People opened their hearts and their purses when the parents were in need. Wouldn’t it be kind of them to reciprocate the gesture? I hear the Cipriano woman is continuing the search for her daughter since leaving prison….perhaps she’d be glad of a few euros tossed her way? Or perhaps donate the money to the Missing People charity who have always been supportive of them?
As to your two previous questions, we have no idea how the parents feel about Wolters theory or CB. Apart from the occasional brief missives on their Facebook page they have been all but silent these past 5 years.
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The 3 police forces are working on the theory Maddie is dead...[hate typing that]
Yet the mcs still believe Maddie is still alive...so wonder who they will be looking for next.
Why would HCW know about dogs/dna .if he is convinced CB took a live Maddie from the apartment.
No Kizzy, I think that you are wrong.
Last time, quite a few moons ago, I remember us all discussing it. I think that we agreed that SY / OG refused to back HCW about thinking Madeleine was dead. At that time OG thought that she might well be alive. There were a multitude of pointers.
I don't remember any public change in their stance; does anyone?
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I don’t think the McCanns believe Madeleine is definitely alive, only that all the while they haven’t been presented with evidence that she is dead that they will continue to hope that she is alive. Who knows, this might already have happened now.
Everyone remotely interested in this case knows about the dogs and the dna. They made headlines around the world. It would be literally incredible if HCW was unaware of the facts of the case he is investigating. But why don’t you reach out to his office to let him know, just in case? He might drop everything and become a sceptic like you. Lol.
Bit rude that, innit, HCW writing them a letter but not actually disclosing his proof? I mean, apparently the letter never arrived, but one would have thought that the family would be desperate to know the deets and ask him to send it again, or email, or nip over and have a chat - bring your evidence with ya, Hansie.
Someone's telling porkies.
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No. I think they should give the money to other families who are in the same situation but do not have access to the same funding streams the parents had. People opened their hearts and their purses when the parents were in need. Wouldn’t it be kind of them to reciprocate the gesture? I hear the Cipriano woman is continuing the search for her daughter since leaving prison….perhaps she’d be glad of a few euros tossed her way? Or perhaps donate the money to the Missing People charity who have always been supportive of them?
As to your two previous questions, we have no idea how the parents feel about Wolters theory or CB. Apart from the occasional brief missives on their Facebook page they have been all but silent these past 5 years.
Well perhaps they should appoint you as their special advisor, I’m sure they’d be grateful to be told by you what they should do with the fund money as you obviously have its best interests at heart. In fact, why don’t you start a petition demanding they divest themselves of the fund just so you can sleep easier at night knowing that it’s out of their evil clutches?
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Bit rude that, innit, HCW writing them a letter but not actually disclosing his proof? I mean, apparently the letter never arrived, but one would have thought that the family would be desperate to know the deets and ask him to send it again, or email, or nip over and have a chat - bring your evidence with ya, Hansie.
Someone's telling porkies.
And what would either side have to gain from lying about something like that?
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Because the case hasn’t been solved and a perpetrator brought to justice yet. Why do you think they haven’t fully embraced the German investigation and taken every opportunity to express support for the idea that CB is responsible for?
Can any of us come up with a plausible explanation for this (your second question)?
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And what would either side have to gain from lying about something like that?
Ask the dogs, Maureen.
Well someone's lying or one or both parties are mistaken, how about that?
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Ask the dogs, Maureen.
Well someone's lying or one or both parties are mistaken, how about that?
Better. I doubt either side was lying but perhaps the Germans weren’t robust enough in ensuring that the letters had arrived prior to making their announcement. It was the tail end of the first lockdown so perhaps there was still a backlog, as a possible explanation.
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Well perhaps they should appoint you as their special advisor, I’m sure they’d be grateful to be told by you what they should do with the fund money as you obviously have its best interests at heart. In fact, why don’t you start a petition demanding they divest themselves of the fund just so you can sleep easier at night knowing that it’s out of their evil clutches?
At which point would they dissolve the company? Or perhaps they would just keep it going, gambling on the stock market with Auntie Dorothy's last £20 she donated a few years back, when she answered the desperate plea to help find wee Maddie. But gambling for what? To help all those other similar charities? Headline for the Daily Star's discerning readers, courtesy of The General: Maddie Mummy in Moment of Monumentally Mammoth Magnanimity.
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At which point would they dissolve the company? Or perhaps they would just keep it going, gambling on the stock market with Auntie Dorothy's last £20 she donated a few years back, when she answered the desperate plea to help find wee Maddie. But gambling for what? To help all those other similar charities? Headline for the Daily Star's discerning readers, courtesy of The General: Maddie Mummy in Moment of Monumentally Mammoth Magnanimity.
Do you perceive the pension pot and the ISA you hold as gambling? Not as wisely managed investments? Perhaps the McCanns should withdraw all the money and stick it in a hole in the garden.
The fund’s primary aim is to Find Madeleine. As she hasn’t yet been found or her fate discovered it will remain in place to be spent to that end if that is what the directors decide. If they decide there is no further action to be taken after the investigation ends then no doubt they will distribute the funds to deserving causes as they see fit. And if you think that means diverting into a private swimming pool complex well that is your right to believe it as a sceptic, however the chances of the McCanns being able to syphon off the fund for their own use are very small with the scrutiny of the media an ever present threat. And - Auntie Dorothy needs to get over her act of supreme generosity 17 years ago and quit mithering about it but if she really is that bothered perhaps she should ask for a refund.
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Do you perceive the pension pot and the ISA you hold as gambling? Not as wisely managed investments? Perhaps the McCanns should withdraw all the money and stick it in a hole in the garden.
The fund’s primary aim is to Find Madeleine. As she hasn’t yet been found or her fate discovered it will remain in place to be spent to that end if that is what the directors decide. If they decide there is no further action to be taken after the investigation ends then no doubt they will distribute the funds to deserving causes as they see fit. And if you think that means diverting into a private swimming pool complex well that is your right to believe it as a sceptic, however the chances of the McCanns being able to syphon off the fund for their own use are very small with the scrutiny of the media an ever present threat. And - Auntie Dorothy needs to get over her act of supreme generosity 17 years ago and quit mithering about it but if she really is that bothered perhaps she should ask for a refund.
Auntie Dotty died. Donated her last £20 from her Winter Fuel Payment and subsequently froze to death in the terrible unending winter of 2012.
And I think you may be confusing perosnal investments with publically funded investments. It's great while you're winning, which they undoubtedly are, but 'public perception' may turn if there's a crash. Only this week Nvidia lost $500 billion when the sneaky Chinese cut their legs off at the knees with a vasty superior, free AI platform. Nobody saw that coming.
But I digress. You're right, casually frittering away the fund is not possible, but I think they're playing the long game, gamble the fund to a point where they can invest in the Sudanese Space Program and then escape with the loot to Mars or Venus and start a new life in one of the subterranean colonies, away from prying eyes.
Want me to exhume another thread? I'm bored of this one now.
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Well perhaps they should appoint you as their special advisor, I’m sure they’d be grateful to be told by you what they should do with the fund money as you obviously have its best interests at heart. In fact, why don’t you start a petition demanding they divest themselves of the fund just so you can sleep easier at night knowing that it’s out of their evil clutches?
Don’t you think that other families or charities could benefit?
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The Find Madeleine Website continues to state that "There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed". This is demonstrably false. The three expert investigative forces are conducting a very serious & costly investigation & have firm evidence that, if we knew what it was "we would be in no doubt" that Madeleine was murdered by Christian Brueckner. At this point the website authors are requesting donations under false pretence. At least, that's how it appears to me.
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Do you perceive the pension pot and the ISA you hold as gambling? Not as wisely managed investments? Perhaps the McCanns should withdraw all the money and stick it in a hole in the garden.
The fund’s primary aim is to Find Madeleine. As she hasn’t yet been found or her fate discovered it will remain in place to be spent to that end if that is what the directors decide. If they decide there is no further action to be taken after the investigation ends then no doubt they will distribute the funds to deserving causes as they see fit. And if you think that means diverting into a private swimming pool complex well that is your right to believe it as a sceptic, however the chances of the McCanns being able to syphon off the fund for their own use are very small with the scrutiny of the media an ever present threat. And - Auntie Dorothy needs to get over her act of supreme generosity 17 years ago and quit mithering about it but if she really is that bothered perhaps she should ask for a refund.
The fund’s primary aim is to Find Madeleine. As she hasn’t yet been found or her fate discovered it will remain in place to be spent to that end if that is what the directors decide.
But at the moment they are not looking are they ....
The money is tied up in stocks and shares..obviously not been spent on anything.
Do these directors get a wage...I remember gmc brother John gave up a well paid job to go on the board
One of seven directors of the Find Madeleine Fund, Gerry McCann's brother has taken indefinite leave of absence from his job as a medical rep for the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca in order to administrate the £1m fund from his Glasgow sitting room.
Must of been a large salary that to give up
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Because the case hasn’t been solved and a perpetrator brought to justice yet. Why do you think they haven’t fully embraced the German investigation and taken every opportunity to express support for the idea that CB is responsible for?
Wouldn't you think the mcs at least would want to know the evidence HCW had that Maddie was dead.
After all by there logic then ...no one would be looking for Maddie.
Seems they are taking a different approach there...... than they did with GA when he said it.
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Don’t you think that other families or charities could benefit?
Sure, like I say write and tell them they must share the loot around without further delay or you’ll get very cross indeed.
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The fund’s primary aim is to Find Madeleine. As she hasn’t yet been found or her fate discovered it will remain in place to be spent to that end if that is what the directors decide.
But at the moment they are not looking are they ....
The money is tied up in stocks and shares..obviously not been spent on anything.
Do these directors get a wage...I remember gmc brother John gave up a well paid job to go on the board
One of seven directors of the Find Madeleine Fund, Gerry McCann's brother has taken indefinite leave of absence from his job as a medical rep for the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca in order to administrate the £1m fund from his Glasgow sitting room.
Must of been a large salary that to give up
What a load of baloney from start to finish. This is currently a live police investigation so the McCanns are not in a position to start interfering with it. And no, the directors do not get paid a salary.
“The majority of the fund money has been and continues to be spent on investigative work to help find Madeleine. Additionally money continues to be spent on the wider 'Awareness Campaign' – reminding people that Madeleine is still missing and to remain vigilant. None of the directors have taken any money from the fund as remuneration”.
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Wouldn't you think the mcs at least would want to know the evidence HCW had that Maddie was dead.
After all by there logic then ...no one would be looking for Maddie.
Seems they are taking a different approach there...... than they did with GA when he said it.
What makes you think they don’t want to know what evidence HCW has that Madeleine is dead?
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The Find Madeleine Website continues to state that "There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed". This is demonstrably false. The three expert investigative forces are conducting a very serious & costly investigation & have firm evidence that, if we knew what it was "we would be in no doubt" that Madeleine was murdered by Christian Brueckner. At this point the website authors are requesting donations under false pretence. At least, that's how it appears to me.
Perhaps you should alert the authorities if you believe a crime has been committed?
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Can any of us come up with a plausible explanation for this (your second question)?
It’s a good job I stopped holding my breath isn’t it?
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Perhaps you should alert the authorities if you believe a crime has been committed?
Perhaps I should. Because it certainly does appear that a crime is being committed, if the three expert investigative forces are to be believed, that is.
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Perhaps I should. Because it certainly does appear that a crime is being committed, if the three expert investigative forces are to be believed, that is.
So what’s stopping you? Get on it now!
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So what’s stopping you? Get on it now!
I'm far too busy campaigning to free Martin Brueckner right now.
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I'm far too busy campaigning to free Martin Brueckner right now.
That’s a shame as I’m sure the police would be right round to arrest the McCanns within hours. Perhaps Faithlilly can do it instead?
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What a load of baloney from start to finish. This is currently a live police investigation so the McCanns are not in a position to start interfering with it. And no, the directors do not get paid a salary.
“The majority of the fund money has been and continues to be spent on investigative work to help find Madeleine. Additionally money continues to be spent on the wider 'Awareness Campaign' – reminding people that Madeleine is still missing and to remain vigilant. None of the directors have taken any money from the fund as remuneration”.
Wider ‘Awareness Campaign’? What wider awareness campaign? An amateur website and a free Facebook page that’s almost never posted on. It appears that the circus has moved on but the news hasn’t filtered down to the clowns.
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Wider ‘Awareness Campaign’? What wider awareness campaign? An amateur website and a free Facebook page that’s almost never posted on. It appears that the circus has moved on but the news hasn’t filtered down to the clowns.
It’s obvious the website hasn’t been updated for years. Perhaps the McCanns should spend thousands on a marketing team and a spanking new website. I’m sure you’d thoroughly approve of that. Lol.
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It’s obvious the website hasn’t been updated for years. Perhaps the McCanns should spend thousands on a marketing team and a spanking new website. I’m sure you’d thoroughly approve of that. Lol.
Perhaps a little enthusiastic input from the parents would suffice, instead of the deafening silence we observe.
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It’s obvious the website hasn’t been updated for years. Perhaps the McCanns should spend thousands on a marketing team and a spanking new website. I’m sure you’d thoroughly approve of that. Lol.
I must apologise to you VS…I inadvertently misled you. The Facebook page is no longer a thing and as you said the campaign website has not been updated in years. So were is this ‘wider awareness’ campaign that the website talks about?
Further if the parents still think that there is a scintilla of a chance that their daughter is alive then thousands spent on a new website might be money well spent. Hell, if they updated the existing one it would be a start.
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I must apologise to you VS…I inadvertently misled you. The Facebook page is no longer a thing and as you said the campaign website has not been updated in years. So were is this ‘wider awareness’ campaign that the website talks about?
Further if the parents still think that there is a scintilla of a chance that their daughter is alive then thousands spent on a new website might be money well spent. Hell, if they updated the existing one it would be a start.
What do you mean by “the Facebook page is no longer a thing?”
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What do you mean by “the Facebook page is no longer a thing?”
The Find Madeleine Facebook Page. Hundreds set up by the general public but I can’t seem to find the official page. Perhaps you can?
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Perhaps a little enthusiastic input from the parents would suffice, instead of the deafening silence we observe.
What sort of enthusiastic input had you in mind? You’re missing them aren’t you? It’s been years since they’ve provided new material for you lot to sharpen your teeth on. Shame.
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The Find Madeleine Facebook Page. Hundreds set up by the general public but I can’t seem to find the official page. Perhaps you can?
Yep it’s still there don’t worry. Reckon you’ve been blocked after you relentless hounding of the poor person who used to run it. Never mind, you’re not missing much.
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Yep it’s still there don’t worry. Reckon you’ve been blocked after you relentless hounding of the poor person who used to run it. Never mind, you’re not missing much.
It’s free, course it is.
Hounding? A bit harsh. She did have a bit of a potty mouth though, strange woman.
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It’s free, course it is.
Hounding? A bit harsh. She did have a bit of a potty mouth though, strange woman.
Poor woman was driven to distraction by malevolent trolls, who can blame her for the odd expletive. Anyway good on her for getting rid of the troublemakers and making sure they can no longer see the page or spew their bile on it I say.
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It’s obvious the website hasn’t been updated for years. Perhaps the McCanns should spend thousands on a marketing team and a spanking new website. I’m sure you’d thoroughly approve of that. Lol.
It's almost as if they don't need or want public donations anymore, but can't actually say it for some reason.
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It's almost as if they don't need or want public donations anymore, but can't actually say it for some reason.
The search is being looked after at the moment. Better for The Mccanns to leave it to The Professionals since they became involved. As soon as the family get involved cruel vitriol starts flying from the, sorry to say it, losers. Losers with nothing but suspicious minds, who are happy to claim the innocent did it, without any PROOF or meaningful FACTS.
The psychological damage that these losers must have done to the twins and parents is immeasurable and will stay with them for the rest of their lives. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
There are some on here that blatently tell lies and alter facts wholesale. I believe for them to do that they must be involved in some way, or perhaps potty, or maybe have not read around on different source sites to get the true picture.
The Mccanns absolute need for search money being gifted is virtually non existent at the moment with The Professionals working on it. But, of course, that could change at some time im the future
Gen., with your undoubted intellect, I am staggered that you didn't work out the above without my help
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It's almost as if they don't need or want public donations anymore, but can't actually say it for some reason.
I would think the reason is quite possibly this: they have come to terms with the likelihood that she is dead,may even have had sight of the Germans’ evidence by now but can’t yet bring themselves to confront the reality of the situation in a public statement about it.
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Poor woman was driven to distraction by malevolent trolls, who can blame her for the odd expletive. Anyway good on her for getting rid of the troublemakers and making sure they can no longer see the page or spew their bile on it I say.
She must be tickled pink that she won’t be fact checked now….by one of the trolls… or anyone actually. Result.
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There really isn't anything to say, but don't let that stop, you. Tnere never has been any reason for why The McCanns should've killed their daughter, unless you are truly sick.
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She must be tickled pink that she won’t be fact checked now….by one of the trolls… or anyone actually. Result.
And you must be spitting feathers that one of your spiteful little hobbies has been permanently curtailed.
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There really isn't anything to say, but don't let that stop, you. Tnere never has been any reason for why The McCanns should've killed their daughter, unless you are truly sick.
Agreed. There never was a reason to kill their daughter and I’m sure they were grief stricken at her death but they chose self-preservation. That’s the mistake they made.
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And you must be spitting feathers that one of your spiteful little hobbies has been permanently curtailed.
Nah…there’s only so many times you can reveal someone as duplicitous before it becomes stale. Besides she never really was very good at it.
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Nah…there’s only so many times you can reveal someone as duplicitous before it becomes stale. Besides she never really was very good at it.
You think you revealed something of significance, the fact is I bet nobody even remembers what it it was, nor cares either way. You really should be ashamed of your behaviour back in the day, but of course you are quite shameless.
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Agreed. There never was a reason to kill their daughter and I’m sure they were grief stricken at her death but they chose self-preservation. That’s the mistake they made.
That is not a fact is it?
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You think you revealed something of significance, the fact is I bet nobody even remembers what it it was, nor cares either way. You really should be ashamed of your behaviour back in the day, but of course you are quite shameless.
It’s not the individual who reveals the truth that should feel shame but the one who told the lie.
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There really isn't anything to say, but don't let that stop, you. Tnere never has been any reason for why The McCanns should've killed their daughter, unless you are truly sick.
Speaking as someone who is truly sick, I think the reason the McCanns killed their daugther was because they were finding it difficult raising three children & decided life would be easier if they only had two. So they formed a complicated plan that they would kill Maddie during a family holiday & then stage an abduction. Gerry gave a massive clue away when he said on camera that he "wasn't here to enjoy himself" He genuinely meant it. Murdering Maddie was a horrible task but it was worth it for the reward of only having to raise two kids. Yes. I think this is my new theory.
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It’s not the individual who reveals the truth that should feel shame but the one who told the lie.
You don't know the truth.
I believe that after years of the deepest study of certain people, I have worked it out .... and I seem to have convinced SY with a multitude of pointers that Madeleine was likely very much alive in a video filmed in 2012.
Their special Madeleine Mccann Crimewatch video featured three of my folders and after the program we learned that having previously believed Madeleine dead, they had changed their mind and become open minded about Madeleine being a real living girl of Junior school age.
As I said before: You don't KNOW the truth and IMO it is you that is one of the ones that should be feeling shame. The Mccanns are innocent; there is nothing against them. NOWT, ZILCH, NOTHING
You don't know the truth; you have just fallen for all the disinformation and sheer lies put about cleverly and convincingly by the perps. They wanted her for her sacred bloodline to breed from. Of that I am virtually certain now.
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Speaking as someone who is truly sick, I think the reason the McCanns killed their daugther was because they were finding it difficult raising three children & decided life would be easier if they only had two. So they formed a complicated plan that they would kill Maddie during a family holiday & then stage an abduction. Gerry gave a massive clue away when he said on camera that he "wasn't here to enjoy himself" He genuinely meant it. Murdering Maddie was a horrible task but it was worth it for the reward of only having to raise two kids. Yes. I think this is my new theory.
You are truly sick. Enough said.
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It’s not the individual who reveals the truth that should feel shame but the one who told the lie.
As I said - shameless. Trolling a page set up to highlight the plight of a missing child, pretending to have the best interests of the family at heart, publishing private correspondence with the webmaster in the hope of causing more trouble for them, bitching about her endlessly on various forums (including this one) with a net result of what? What truth do you think you revesled? You were just desperate to ingratiate yourself with your hero, that purveyor of high quality bullshit Blacksmith, acting as his little spy and revealing something of so little consequence I doubt anyone apart from you remembers it. And now he and his blog are long gone, the facebook page is still there (despite your claims otherwise), the McCanns get on with their lives, a known rapist and paedophile is still the key and only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance and yet here you are, still pointing the finger at the parents, albeit with less conviction and frequency than before.
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As I said - shameless. Trolling a page set up to highlight the plight of a missing child, pretending to have the best interests of the family at heart, publishing private correspondence with the webmaster in the hope of causing more trouble for them, bitching about her endlessly on various forums (including this one) with a net result of what? What truth do you think you revesled? You were just desperate to ingratiate yourself with your hero, that purveyor of high quality bullshit Blacksmith, acting as his little spy and revealing something of so little consequence I doubt anyone apart from you remembers it. And now he and his blog are long gone, the facebook page is still there (despite your claims otherwise), the McCanns get on with their lives, a known rapist and paedophile is still the key and only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance and yet here you are, still pointing the finger at the parents, albeit with less conviction and frequency than before.
Brueckner is the 'key' suspect? That's a new one.
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Agreed. There never was a reason to kill their daughter and I’m sure they were grief stricken at her death but they chose self-preservation. That’s the mistake they made.
Exactly my thoughts on this. well put.
My thoughts as well
Although sadly the grief showed in there face...
The torment of thinking your baby was taken by a peadoe wasn't there imo.
Survival of themselves and twins ...took over often in shock it is fight or flight
The fight-or-flight or the fight-flight-freeze-or-fawn (also called hyperarousal or the acute stress response) is a physiological reaction that occurs in response to a perceived harmful event, attack, or threat to survival.
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You don't know the truth.
I believe that after years of the deepest study of certain people, I have worked it out .... and I seem to have convinced SY with a multitude of pointers that Madeleine was likely very much alive in a video filmed in 2012.
Their special Madeleine Mccann Crimewatch video featured three of my folders and after the program we learned that having previously believed Madeleine dead, they had changed their mind and become open minded about Madeleine being a real living girl of Junior school age.
As I said before: You don't KNOW the truth and IMO it is you that is one of the ones that should be feeling shame. The Mccanns are innocent; there is nothing against them. NOWT, ZILCH, NOTHING
You don't know the truth; you have just fallen for all the disinformation and sheer lies put about cleverly and convincingly by the perps. They wanted her for her sacred bloodline to breed from. Of that I am virtually certain now.
In fairness Sadie...........none of us know the absolute truth....of what happened to Maddie
I would say in almost all cases they believe in what they write and what there opinion is.
That doesn't make them bad...me included..thinking that the mccs are involved in what happened to Maddie.
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As I said - shameless. Trolling a page set up to highlight the plight of a missing child, pretending to have the best interests of the family at heart, publishing private correspondence with the webmaster in the hope of causing more trouble for them, bitching about her endlessly on various forums (including this one) with a net result of what? What truth do you think you revesled? You were just desperate to ingratiate yourself with your hero, that purveyor of high quality bullshit Blacksmith, acting as his little spy and revealing something of so little consequence I doubt anyone apart from you remembers it. And now he and his blog are long gone, the facebook page is still there (despite your claims otherwise), the McCanns get on with their lives, a known rapist and paedophile is still the key and only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance and yet here you are, still pointing the finger at the parents, albeit with less conviction and frequency than before.
You certainly remember it so that’s something.
And the webmaster had to withdraw an article that she was using as propaganda so that’s something else.
And yes the parents are getting on with their lives….almost as if nothing had happened.
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Re: Have we learned anything new after almost 16 years?
Sadly it is evident that nothing blinds and strengthens prejudice than hatreds nursed over decades corrupt the souls of the [ censored word ]s. Who hate without rhyme or reason, all the more so when the object of their tireless ire are individuals about whom they know nothing.
The fact that one of the worst type of proven sex offender is suspected in the disappearance of a much loved little girl doesn't appear to have impinged; their ignorance reflects very badly on them and no other with the exception perhaps of the rapist and paedophile suspected of the crime who has their unmitigated support.
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Re: Have we learned anything new after almost 16 years?
Sadly it is evident that nothing blinds and strengthens prejudice than hatreds nursed over decades corrupt the souls of the [ censored word ]s. Who hate without rhyme or reason, all the more so when the object of their tireless ire are individuals about whom they know nothing.
The fact that one of the worst type of proven sex offender is suspected in the disappearance of a much loved little girl doesn't appear to have impinged; their ignorance reflects very badly on them and no other with the exception perhaps of the rapist and paedophile suspected of the crime who has their unmitigated support.
No one supports Brueckner. Many of us believe he has nothing to do with Madeleine’s disappearance. Perhaps you need to learn the difference?
A miscarriage of justice brings justice for no one. Perhaps you need to learn that too.
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Re: Have we learned anything new after almost 16 years?
Sadly it is evident that nothing blinds and strengthens prejudice than hatreds nursed over decades corrupt the souls of the [ censored word ]s. Who hate without rhyme or reason, all the more so when the object of their tireless ire are individuals about whom they know nothing.
The fact that one of the worst type of proven sex offender is suspected in the disappearance of a much loved little girl doesn't appear to have impinged; their ignorance reflects very badly on them and no other with the exception perhaps of the rapist and paedophile suspected of the crime who has their unmitigated support.
The fact that one of the worst type of proven sex offender is suspected
Yes. and wasn't there hundreds more in an around the area
Grange, which was set up in 2011, had achieved "an awful lot".
Since it was established, police have looked into more than 600 individuals and 40,000 documents.
That's an awful lot too.........but seems CB had a slight connection allegedly.
Like ...God forbid if Jon venables was holidaying down the road..don't you think he would have been considered as prime suspect ....especially with a bit of hearsay added.
I mentioned that because the crime is fitted around CB that he was there...yet not one bit of evidence he was.
Not to mention CB would have committed the crime of the century.
You can think the investigation has moved on...but it hasn't.
They are no nearer as to what happened to Maddie than on 3/5/2007...
Apart from collecting a couple of suspects along the way....that lead to nothing.
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The fact that one of the worst type of proven sex offender is suspected
Yes. and wasn't there hundreds more in an around the area
Grange, which was set up in 2011, had achieved "an awful lot".
Since it was established, police have looked into more than 600 individuals and 40,000 documents.
That's an awful lot too.........but seems CB had a slight connection allegedly.
Like ...God forbid if Jon venables was holidaying down the road..don't you think he would have been considered as prime suspect ....especially with a bit of hearsay added.
I mentioned that because the crime is fitted around CB that he was there...yet not one bit of evidence he was.
Not to mention CB would have committed the crime of the century.
You can think the investigation has moved on...but it hasn't.
They are no nearer as to what happened to Maddie than on 3/5/2007...
Apart from collecting a couple of suspects along the way....that lead to nothing.
Christian Brueckner was and is a sexual offender.
He was a resident of Praia da Luz who made a living by entering premises illegally.
He was not interviewed about the disappearance of a little girl. Think about it.
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Christian Brueckner was and is a sexual offender.
He was a resident of Praia da Luz who made a living by entering premises illegally.
He was not interviewed about the disappearance of a little girl. Think about it.
Do you think he'd have been willing to speak to the police then?
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I mean, they'd need him to consent to being interviewed wouldn't they. They couldn't force him to come to the station & give a statement or explain his movements on May 3rd, & they had no grounds for an arrest warrant either, because there was no indication of his possible involvement until Busching got nicked for people trafficking years later.
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PJ inspector knocks on Brueckner's door....
Brueckner Answers : "Yes?"
PJ: "Do you know anything about the disappearance of a child from an apartment in Luz?"
Brueckner: "No, I don't".
PJ: "Can you tell me where you were at 10pm on May 3rd?"
Brueckner: "No, it's none of your business"
Very useful information I'm sure. Not sure it would satisfy a judge that there's probable cause for an arrest though.
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Christian Brueckner was and is a sexual offender.
He was a resident of Praia da Luz who made a living by entering premises illegally.
He was not interviewed about the disappearance of a little girl. Think about it.
I don't have to think about it.
I know exactly who CB is.
I knew as well from all this starting with CB nearly 5 year ago .....He was not the abductor.
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You certainly remember it so that’s something.
And the webmaster had to withdraw an article that she was using as propaganda so that’s something else.
And yes the parents are getting on with their lives….almost as if nothing had happened.
I had to look up the details on this forum which reminded me 1) it was nothing of any consequence whatsoever 2) you used to believe the webmaster posted on this forum (what was their username out of interest?) and 3) you used to pretend it wasn’t you who had trolled the webmaster but a.n. other person. At least you are owning up to your shameful behaviour now so that’s something.
If the parents were still constantly in the news publicising Madeleine’s disappearance you’d be criticising them for courting fame and fortune, and now that they’ve been quiet for years you’re criticizing them for getting on with their lives. Is there anything they could do to make you happy apart from killing themselves? Perhaps a live televised broadcast admitting they covered up Madeleleine’s death is what you’re dreaming of? Well dream on, they didn’t do it and that’s never going to happen.
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The fact that one of the worst type of proven sex offender is suspected
Yes. and wasn't there hundreds more in an around the area
Grange, which was set up in 2011, had achieved "an awful lot".
Since it was established, police have looked into more than 600 individuals and 40,000 documents.
That's an awful lot too.........but seems CB had a slight connection allegedly.
Like ...God forbid if Jon venables was holidaying down the road..don't you think he would have been considered as prime suspect ....especially with a bit of hearsay added.
I mentioned that because the crime is fitted around CB that he was there...yet not one bit of evidence he was.
Not to mention CB would have committed the crime of the century.
You can think the investigation has moved on...but it hasn't.
They are no nearer as to what happened to Maddie than on 3/5/2007...
Apart from collecting a couple of suspects along the way....that lead to nothing.
There is a bit of evidence he was there that night. His phone pinged on a local mast. I don’t believe for one minute he had leant his phone to someone else. People do lend their mobile phones out as a rule. I never have apart from to someone who I was with at the time, have you?
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There is a bit of evidence he was there that night. His phone pinged on a local mast. I don’t believe for one minute he had leant his phone to someone else. People do lend their mobile phones out as a rule. I never have apart from to someone who I was with at the time, have you?
Drug dealers are known to share a phone line sometimes. Don't ask me how I know that.
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Do you know who else had phones that they used there that Night? The McCanns. Maybe Wolters should think about investigating them because he's not getting anywhere with Christian Brueckner.
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PJ inspector knocks on Brueckner's door....
Brueckner Answers : "Yes?"
PJ: "Do you know anything about the disappearance of a child from an apartment in Luz?"
Brueckner: "No, I don't".
PJ: "Can you tell me where you were at 10pm on May 3rd?"
Brueckner: "No, it's none of your business"
Very useful information I'm sure. Not sure it would satisfy a judge that there's probable cause for an arrest though.
PJ: do you mind if we come in and have a look over the premises?
CB: yes, now eff off
Now, a refusal to cooperate could possibly be seen as suspicious couldn’t it? Police could keep closer tabs on him as a result or seek a search warrant if they think he might be hiding something. Why do you think police often visit possible suspects at their home in the first place if it’s such a complete waste of time?
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I don't have to think about it.
I know exactly who CB is.
I knew as well from all this starting with CB nearly 5 year ago .....He was not the abductor.
You may think you know but you don’t know it.
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Drug dealers are known to share a phone line sometimes. Don't ask me how I know that.
And receive 30 minute long phone calls from a fellow paedo?
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Do you know who else had phones that they used there that Night? The McCanns. Maybe Wolters should think about investigating them because he's not getting anywhere with Christian Brueckner.
There’s nothing suspicious about the McCanns phone activity, it’s already been investigated. Gerry didn’t even use his phone to let the others know he’d successfully dumped the body in a bin.
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PJ: do you mind if we come in and have a look over the premises?
CB: yes, now eff off
Now, a refusal to cooperate could possibly be seen as suspicious couldn’t it? Police could keep closer tabs on him as a result or seek a search warrant if they think he might be hiding something. Why do you think police often visit possible suspects at their home in the first place if it’s such a complete waste of time?
He would probably refuse to cooperate because he's a criminal. They're known not to like the police so his refusal to cooperate wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary.
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And receive 30 minute long phone calls from a fellow paedo?
Why wouldn't he speak to fellow paedos? It's not a crime for people to have phone conversation you know.
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The PJ would need to convince a judge they had a good reason to require a search warrant. Brueckner refusing to answer questions or even the front door simply wouldn't be enough evidence of anything.
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I had to look up the details on this forum which reminded me 1) it was nothing of any consequence whatsoever 2) you used to believe the webmaster posted on this forum (what was their username out of interest?) and 3) you used to pretend it wasn’t you who had trolled the webmaster but a.n. other person. At least you are owning up to your shameful behaviour now so that’s something.
If the parents were still constantly in the news publicising Madeleine’s disappearance you’d be criticising them for courting fame and fortune, and now that they’ve been quiet for years you’re criticizing them for getting on with their lives. Is there anything they could do to make you happy apart from killing themselves? Perhaps a live televised broadcast admitting they covered up Madeleleine’s death is what you’re dreaming of? Well dream on, they didn’t do it and that’s never going to happen.
My you have a very macabre imagination.
Is there anything the parents could do to make me happy. Yes, end this debacle.
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McCann supporters seem to believe the police are allowed to just bash their way into convicted sex offenders homes & interogate them, every time a child is reported missing. Even when there's absolutely nothing to suggest that they in particular could be responsible for said child's disappearance. It really is quite stupid. As of May 2007 the PJ knew nothing of Brueckner, other than that he had molestation convictions dating a decade prior. He was never arrested for breaking into apartments so they had no idea he was doing that. Nor had he been arrested for raping DM at that time either. Put simply there was no good reason to suspect him in particular. But McCann supporters will never be satisfied with that.
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Why wouldn't he speak to fellow paedos? It's not a crime for people to have phone conversation you know.
So Bruckner (a rapist and paedo miles away from PdL at the time but with a thing about little girls and wanting to keep something to torture for days in his van) had leant his phone to a fellow drug dealer who thrn took a 30 minute call from another paedo the night Madeleine went missing - righto then. Nothing suspicious about any of that is there, no sirree bob.
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My you have a very macabre imagination.
Is there anything the parents could do to make me happy. Yes, end this debacle.
And how would they do that, if they know nothing about what happened to Madeleine, or do you simply refuse to accept that as a possibility (even though it’s more than a probability as far as any logically thinking person is concerned)?
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McCann supporters seem to believe the police are allowed to just bash their way into convicted sex offenders homes & interogate them, every time a child is reported missing. Even when there's absolutely nothing to suggest that they in particular could be responsible for said child's disappearance. It really is quite stupid. As of May 2007 the PJ knew nothing of Brueckner, other than that he had molestation convictions dating a decade prior. He was never arrested for breaking into apartments so they had no idea he was doing that. Nor had he been arrested for raping DM at that time either. Put simply there was no good reason to suspect him in particular. But McCann supporters will never be satisfied with that.
Why did the PJ knock on his door then? To invite him out for some wine, some sardines and a game of cards?
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My you have a very macabre imagination.
Is there anything the parents could do to make me happy. Yes, end this debacle.
Talking of macabre imaginations, you’re the one imagining a loving father callously tossing the body of his little girl into a municipal bin just an hour or so after finding her dead at the foot of the stairs.
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So Bruckner (a rapist and paedo miles away from PdL at the time but with a thing about little girls and wanting to keep something to torture for days in his van) had leant his phone to a fellow drug dealer who thrn took a 30 minute call from another paedo the night Madeleine went missing - righto then. Nothing suspicious about any of that is there, no sirree bob.
I'm sorry, what am I supposed to be inferring from this half hour phone call between 7.30 & 8:00? You think they were planning the abduction? Strange that they only needed one chat about it. I'd have expected to see further phone activity closer to the time of the disappearance. Which was post 9:15. Nope. Once the abduction was completed they never phoned each other again. Maybe they switched to smoke signals or something.
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Why did the PJ knock on his door then? To invite him out for some wine, some sardines and a game of cards?
Door to door enquiries. They probably knocked on plenty of doors & I'd venture, God forbid, that some people simply weren't in. But now not being home is to be viewed as suspicious I suppose.
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My you have a very macabre imagination.
Is there anything the parents could do to make me happy. Yes, end this debacle.
There is only one individual who has the knowledge to ''end this debacle'' and that is the piece of filth who is the named prime suspect of British police - Portuguese police - German police.
It seems decades of ignorance were not rectified for you when Christian Bueckner was introduced as the only resident of Luz who was a convicted paedophile a convicted bestial rapist who had the means and the expertise and the inclination to carry out the evil crime against an innocent child ... but whose fan club believe with a vengeance ... HE JUST WOULDN'T DO THAT. He's only a patsy.
No he is not. He is a paedophile who damages children ... because that is what paedophiles do.
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I'm sorry, what am I supposed to be inferring from this half hour phone call between 7.30 & 8:00? You think they were planning the abduction? Strange that they only needed one chat about it. I'd have expected to see further phone activity closer to the time of the disappearance. Which was post 9:15. Nope. Once the abduction was completed they never phoned each other again. Maybe they switched to smoke signals or something.
You’re not supposed to infer anything from it, I’m just pointing out how incredibly unlikely it is that Bruckner who lived in the area had leant his phone to a fellow drug dealer who then spent 30 minutes chatting on an incoming call whilst Brückner was supposedly miles away. Pull the other one it’s got bells on it.
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Door to door enquiries. They probably knocked on plenty of doors & I'd venture, God forbid, that some people simply weren't in. But now not being home is to be viewed as suspicious I suppose.
They knocked on his door BECAUSE he was a know bad ‘un, not just by chance.
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They knocked on his door BECAUSE he was a know bad ‘un, not just by chance.
He had molested two girls in his native Germany a decade prior. As far as the police knew he hadn't committed any offences thereafter. So it's little surprise to me that he wasn't made the new key prime suspect immediately. Anyway, Wolters has investigated him very thoroughly now but still hasn't interrogated him. Brietta must be appalled by this fact. A known sex offender & the police haven't even bothered interviewing him.
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There is only one individual who has the knowledge to ''end this debacle'' and that is the piece of filth who is the named prime suspect of British police - Portuguese police - German police.
It seems decades of ignorance were not rectified for you when Christian Bueckner was introduced as the only resident of Luz who was a convicted paedophile a convicted bestial rapist who had the means and the expertise and the inclination to carry out the evil crime against an innocent child ... but whose fan club believe with a vengeance ... HE JUST WOULDN'T DO THAT. He's only a patsy.
No he is not. He is a paedophile who damages children ... because that is what paedophiles do.
Firstly Brueckner wasn’t a resident of Luz, he lived nearby.
Secondly I wonder how the police would have acted if they’d known at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance that a man who lived probably as far from Luz as Brueckner and had a history, going back decades, of abusing and raping young girls?
This individual’s name was passed to Operation Yewtree in 2012. Was he investigated by OG? Was his phone activity investigated?
Who know perhaps MWT was right. Perhaps Madeleine did leave the apartment through the open door and was picked up by someone who lived near PDL? Perhaps that individual was Clement Freud?
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There is only one individual who has the knowledge to ''end this debacle'' and that is the piece of filth who is the named prime suspect of British police - Portuguese police - German police.
It seems decades of ignorance were not rectified for you when Christian Bueckner was introduced as the only resident of Luz who was a convicted paedophile a convicted bestial rapist who had the means and the expertise and the inclination to carry out the evil crime against an innocent child ... but whose fan club believe with a vengeance ... HE JUST WOULDN'T DO THAT. He's only a patsy.
No he is not. He is a paedophile who damages children ... because that is what paedophiles do.
Why hasn’t Wolters interrogated him then? He's had 7 years to do it. It looks like Brueckner will be a free man before the three expert investigative forces ever get round to asking him where he was on May 3rd. Useless.
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Firstly Brueckner wasn’t a resident of Luz, he lived nearby.
Secondly I wonder how the police would have acted if they’d known at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance that a man who lived probably as far from Luz as Brueckner and had a history, going back decades, of abusing and raping young girls?
This individual’s name was passed to Operation Yewtree in 2012. Was he investigated by OG? Was his phone activity investigated?
Who know perhaps MWT was right. Perhaps Madeleine did leave the apartment through the open door and was picked up by someone who lived near PDL? Perhaps that individual was Clement Freud?
PORTUGUESE authorities knew Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner was a convicted sex offender a year before she disappeared, court papers reveal.
Police on the Algarve have defended the five-year gap between Madeleine going missing in 2007 and the new suspect coming into the frame by claiming that they knew nothing of his past at the time.
But court papers released yesterday show Brueckner admitted his sordid past, telling a Portuguese judge in 2006 that he was a convicted paedophile.
The German drifter, who molested a six-year- old schoolgirl when he was 17, told the court of his crime as he was jailed for stealing diesel in the Algarve.
It means that the Portuguese police and judiciary will once again face troubling questions over why Brueckner was not part of the Madeleine investigation from the start, given that he was released from prison five months before the then threeyear-old vanished.
After Brueckner, 43, was named earlier this month as a suspect in the 13-year-old inquiry, questions were immediately asked as to why he was not on the radar of the original investigation. Just this week, amid criticism of their investigations, a Policia Judiciaria source told local media: ‘ Nearly all the Portuguese nationals and foreigners living on the Algarve with sex offence convictions were questioned at the time.
‘Although Brueckner had arrived in Portugal from Germany
in 1996 after fleeing a child sex abuse conviction, he wasn’t on that list of predators.
‘That case of sexual abuse of a minor did not cross the German borders and that meant the PJ didn’t know about it.
‘The German was known to police in Portugal, but for petty crimes he’d been convicted of which didn’t raise any alarm bells in May 2007.’
The force has said the German’s name was among 600 passed to British police in case files in 2012 – five years after Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, disappeared from her family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.
The court files released yesterday also reveal that a blue Bedford van belonging to Brueckner was unwittingly destroyed by Portuguese police before it could be searched for evidence.
The drifter used to sleep in the van on a beach near Praia da Luz before he was jailed in mid-2006.
Six months after her disappearance, police visited an unofficial
‘Chance missed to search his van’
scrapyard which Brueckner gave as his address to the court to order him to pay the fine for stealing fuel, only to find he had disappeared.
It is thought they then impounded the van for a number of months before it was sold to a breaker’s yard to satisfy the £90 fine. Portuguese newspaper Expresso said: ‘It will never be known if the vehicle could have contained any clues about the missing British youngster.’
Brueckner, described by German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters as ‘ a multiple sexual predator already convicted of crimes against little girls’, was first convicted of child sex crimes in 1994. He has 17 convictions, including child pornography, theft and drug dealing.
Brueckner, who was adopted, is nearing the end of his latest sentence for drugs charges.
Last year, he was also convicted over the vicious rape of a 72-yearold American widow in Praia da Luz in 2005. He argued, unsuccessfully, at his trial in Germany in December that the 240billion-to-one DNA hair sample that convicted him must have come via her pet cat which he stroked outside her villa. Brueckner was sentenced to seven and a half years in prison, pending the outcome of an appeal.
Last night, Graham Hill, a former senior British detective who was sent to Praia da Luz days after Madeleine vanished, said: ‘ The question for the Portuguese is: what system did you have, if any? Because I’m not sure they had a system back in 2006 and 2007 which allowed them to easily record information about sex offenders and then search for them.
‘If they didn’t have it, they are now getting caught out because they knew about this man in 2006 and knew he had convictions for sex offences back in Germany.’
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20200620/282063394221543
Much as Amaral's team was blinded by his antipathy towards the victims of the crime ... is the phenomenon of those who remain blinded by Brueckner's evil intent.
Incredibly there are those who compound the initial incompetence of the case by spending internet hours trolling on his behalf.
Between them and and their conscience, but a very weird choice indeed.
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It doesn't weigh on my conscience. Shit posting in support of a convicted sex offender. His offences are entirely unrelated to Madeleine's disappearance & he is entitled to be presumed as innocent as the McCanns are. He could have a murder conviction & I'd still support him, because the evidence against him is all that matters & the evidence presented by the prosecutor thus far is amusingly weak.
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PORTUGUESE authorities knew Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner was a convicted sex offender a year before she disappeared, court papers reveal.
Police on the Algarve have defended the five-year gap between Madeleine going missing in 2007 and the new suspect coming into the frame by claiming that they knew nothing of his past at the time.
But court papers released yesterday show Brueckner admitted his sordid past, telling a Portuguese judge in 2006 that he was a convicted paedophile.
The German drifter, who molested a six-year- old schoolgirl when he was 17, told the court of his crime as he was jailed for stealing diesel in the Algarve.
It means that the Portuguese police and judiciary will once again face troubling questions over why Brueckner was not part of the Madeleine investigation from the start, given that he was released from prison five months before the then threeyear-old vanished.
After Brueckner, 43, was named earlier this month as a suspect in the 13-year-old inquiry, questions were immediately asked as to why he was not on the radar of the original investigation. Just this week, amid criticism of their investigations, a Policia Judiciaria source told local media: ‘ Nearly all the Portuguese nationals and foreigners living on the Algarve with sex offence convictions were questioned at the time.
‘Although Brueckner had arrived in Portugal from Germany
in 1996 after fleeing a child sex abuse conviction, he wasn’t on that list of predators.
‘That case of sexual abuse of a minor did not cross the German borders and that meant the PJ didn’t know about it.
‘The German was known to police in Portugal, but for petty crimes he’d been convicted of which didn’t raise any alarm bells in May 2007.’
The force has said the German’s name was among 600 passed to British police in case files in 2012 – five years after Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, disappeared from her family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.
The court files released yesterday also reveal that a blue Bedford van belonging to Brueckner was unwittingly destroyed by Portuguese police before it could be searched for evidence.
The drifter used to sleep in the van on a beach near Praia da Luz before he was jailed in mid-2006.
Six months after her disappearance, police visited an unofficial
‘Chance missed to search his van’
scrapyard which Brueckner gave as his address to the court to order him to pay the fine for stealing fuel, only to find he had disappeared.
It is thought they then impounded the van for a number of months before it was sold to a breaker’s yard to satisfy the £90 fine. Portuguese newspaper Expresso said: ‘It will never be known if the vehicle could have contained any clues about the missing British youngster.’
Brueckner, described by German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters as ‘ a multiple sexual predator already convicted of crimes against little girls’, was first convicted of child sex crimes in 1994. He has 17 convictions, including child pornography, theft and drug dealing.
Brueckner, who was adopted, is nearing the end of his latest sentence for drugs charges.
Last year, he was also convicted over the vicious rape of a 72-yearold American widow in Praia da Luz in 2005. He argued, unsuccessfully, at his trial in Germany in December that the 240billion-to-one DNA hair sample that convicted him must have come via her pet cat which he stroked outside her villa. Brueckner was sentenced to seven and a half years in prison, pending the outcome of an appeal.
Last night, Graham Hill, a former senior British detective who was sent to Praia da Luz days after Madeleine vanished, said: ‘ The question for the Portuguese is: what system did you have, if any? Because I’m not sure they had a system back in 2006 and 2007 which allowed them to easily record information about sex offenders and then search for them.
‘If they didn’t have it, they are now getting caught out because they knew about this man in 2006 and knew he had convictions for sex offences back in Germany.’
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20200620/282063394221543
Much as Amaral's team was blinded by his antipathy towards the victims of the crime ... is the phenomenon of those who remain blinded by Brueckner's evil intent.
Incredibly there are those who compound the initial incompetence of the case by spending internet hours trolling on his behalf.
Between them and and their conscience, but a very weird choice indeed.
‘ in 1996 after fleeing a child sex abuse conviction, he wasn’t on that list of predators.
‘That case of sexual abuse of a minor did not cross the German borders and that meant the PJ didn’t know about it.
‘The German was known to police in Portugal, but for petty crimes he’d been convicted of which didn’t raise any alarm bells in May 2007.’’
So bang goes the much claimed ‘fact’’ that the the PJ knew that Brueckner was a paedophile. Thank you Brietta.
OG in 2012 however did know yet, it appears, did nothing to apprehend and interview him. I wonder why? Incompetence?
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Firstly Brueckner wasn’t a resident of Luz, he lived nearby.
Secondly I wonder how the police would have acted if they’d known at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance that a man who lived probably as far from Luz as Brueckner and had a history, going back decades, of abusing and raping young girls?
This individual’s name was passed to Operation Yewtree in 2012. Was he investigated by OG? Was his phone activity investigated?
Who know perhaps MWT was right. Perhaps Madeleine did leave the apartment through the open door and was picked up by someone who lived near PDL? Perhaps that individual was Clement Freud?
You think 83 year old Clement Freud is a more likely suspect than a youngish rapist and paedo? Hilarious.
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‘ in 1996 after fleeing a child sex abuse conviction, he wasn’t on that list of predators.
‘That case of sexual abuse of a minor did not cross the German borders and that meant the PJ didn’t know about it.
‘The German was known to police in Portugal, but for petty crimes he’d been convicted of which didn’t raise any alarm bells in May 2007.’’
So bang goes the much claimed ‘fact’’ that the the PJ knew that Brueckner was a paedophile. Thank you Brietta.
OG in 2012 however did know yet, it appears, did nothing to apprehend and interview him. I wonder why? Incompetence?
According to some unnamed Portugese source *coughamaralcough* To coin one of your favourite quotes ‘well they would say that wouldn’t they?”
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You think 83 year old Clement Freud is a more likely suspect than a youngish rapist and paedo? Hilarious.
Was Freud still raping and abusing young girls in old age? We simply don’t know.
Do paedophiles ever lose their urge to abuse?
Knowing what we know now isn’t it odd behaviour that he even invited the parents of a probably dead child to dinner?
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According to some unnamed Portugese source *coughamaralcough* To coin one of your favourite quotes ‘well they would say that wouldn’t they?”
Have you been drinking?
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‘ in 1996 after fleeing a child sex abuse conviction, he wasn’t on that list of predators.
‘That case of sexual abuse of a minor did not cross the German borders and that meant the PJ didn’t know about it.
‘The German was known to police in Portugal, but for petty crimes he’d been convicted of which didn’t raise any alarm bells in May 2007.’’
So bang goes the much claimed ‘fact’’ that the the PJ knew that Brueckner was a paedophile. Thank you Brietta.
OG in 2012 however did know yet, it appears, did nothing to apprehend and interview him. I wonder why? Incompetence?
One can read, thank you.
Very few would lower themselves to spit on a rapist and paedophile. If the creature Brueckner is proven to be all that and a child murderer to boot you will have outclassed yourself in your comments.
Brueckner was free and on the loose on May three.
You don't know where he was and what he was doing ... yet again without fail you leap to his defence in almost every post you make.
It really is not a good look to worry about ''a miscarriage of justice'' for the rapist and child molester while throwing buckets of poisonous innuendo at
- all and sundry who are not Bueckner
- while coming up with every excuse in the book and some even Brueckner hadn't thought about yet as you leap to his defence
Do a fact check ... just reread the content of your posts.
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One can read, thank you.
Very few would lower themselves to spit on a rapist and paedophile. If the creature Brueckner is proven to be all that and a child murderer to boot you will have outclassed yourself in your comments.
Brueckner was free and on the loose on May three.
You don't know where he was and what he was doing ... yet again without fail you leap to his defence in almost every post you make.
It really is not a good look to worry about ''a miscarriage of justice'' for the rapist and child molester while throwing buckets of poisonous innuendo at
- all and sundry who are not Bueckner
- while coming up with every excuse in the book and some even Brueckner hadn't thought about yet as you leap to his defence
Do a fact check ... just reread the content of your posts.
So when do you think Wolters will get round to proving Brueckner a murderer? Because the latest news suggests we're going to be in for a rather long wait.
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So when do you think Wolters will get round to proving Brueckner a murderer? Because the latest news suggests we're going to be in for a rather long wait.
I don't think that Bruckner is a murderer ... not of Madeleine anyway, but it is possible that as a paid accomplice he abducted her. . There are a goodly number of pointers, which I and others have gone over repeatedly which indicate the likelyhood.
However, there appears to be no proof, so we must consider him innocent ... maybe he is, but it seems doubtful
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In fairness Sadie...........none of us know the absolute truth....of what happened to Maddie
I would say in almost all cases they believe in what they write and what there opinion is.
That doesn't make them bad...me included..thinking that the mccs are involved in what happened to Maddie.
Dear Kizzy,
I don't rate you as bad. I just think that you have fallen hook, line and sinker, for the multitude of disinformation that has been blasted at us. We have been engulfed by deliberate lies and red herrings galore.
Many Posters, early on, noticed the dreadful lies put about by Amaral and certain other PJ Chief Inspectors. And noticed altered, deliberately rearranged information from various sources. Very cleverly changed information and done on a massive scale.
These posters became questioning at a very early stage. The lies caused us to analyse the situation in greater depth than a lot of people ... and amongst other things we found very cruel torture of suspects and wholesale sexual abuse of children. The suspects being tortured appeared to have no incriminating FACTS against them, in fact to many of us they seemed to be patsys. Patsys to be the fall guys and stop the search for the real culprits
Have you read about Casa Pia and the rape of boys there? IMO a massive Industry was taking place and probably still is to supply the lust of some extremely rich and important men and make mega bucks.
Any man who has raped a child and been secretly photographed, is then a perfect target for blackmail and extortion of money. Judges can be 'persuaded' to alter judgements, for instance. To be labelled a 'nonce' in prison would ensure a stay of great violence. Most prisoners hate men who rape children.
No, not you, Kizzy, I don't rate you as bad. I think that you have just got swept along with it all and mistakenly believe the rubbish and red herrings that have engulfed us. And I think that you are a fighter who pluckily fights for what she mistakenly believes in... but you have got it wrong ... soz. Some on here, however, I do rate as bad.
Have we learned anything in the last 16 years?
Yes, we have learned that the human race can be persuaded to believe lies, if enough disinformation is put out in the right way ... but it is a mighty job. The human race can also be persuaded to back the lies and fight for the wrong ends.
With AI looming, that is a very frightening prospect.
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Have you been drinking?
I don’t drink. Which part of my post did you fail to understand?
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Was Freud still raping and abusing young girls in old age? We simply don’t know.
Do paedophiles ever lose their urge to abuse?
Knowing what we know now isn’t it odd behaviour that he even invited the parents of a probably dead child to dinner?
The three women who came forward with rape allegations about Freud claimed their abuse occurred between the 1940s and the 1970s. Astounding that you think an ancient old celebrity (who we don’t even know was residing in the area at the time) was a more likely candidate for the abduction and murder of Madeleine than the current prime suspect who is a known paedophile, burglar present in the area at the time and who committed a violent rape in PdL itself. If anyone has been drinking dear Faith it surely must have been you.
If you are now apparently willing to accept the possibility that Madeleine woke and wandered into the hands of a murderous paedo on the streets of PdL please explain to us why you don’t think it could have been CB and is much more likely to have been 83 year old ex-Liberal MP, author and TV presenter Clement Freud. Another question for you to ignore.
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McCann supporters seem to believe the police are allowed to just bash their way into convicted sex offenders homes & interogate them, every time a child is reported missing. Even when there's absolutely nothing to suggest that they in particular could be responsible for said child's disappearance. It really is quite stupid. As of May 2007 the PJ knew nothing of Brueckner, other than that he had molestation convictions dating a decade prior. He was never arrested for breaking into apartments so they had no idea he was doing that. Nor had he been arrested for raping DM at that time either. Put simply there was no good reason to suspect him in particular. But McCann supporters will never be satisfied with that.
Your contention that police don’t just go around questioning known sex offenders when a child is missing is contradicted by the article posted by Brietta yesterday
Quote: “a Policia Judiciaria source told local media: ‘ Nearly all the Portuguese nationals and foreigners living on the Algarve with sex offence convictions were questioned at the time.”
So there you go. Targetted enquiries. Is that “really quite stupid “ in your view? If so complain to the PJ because that’s their claim.
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Your contention that police don’t just go around questioning known sex offenders when a child is missing is contradicted by the article posted by Brietta yesterday
Quote: “a Policia Judiciaria source told local media: ‘ Nearly all the Portuguese nationals and foreigners living on the Algarve with sex offence convictions were questioned at the time.”
So there you go. Targetted enquiries. Is that “really quite stupid “ in your view? If so complain to the PJ because that’s their claim.
According to you the anonymous police source was Amaral, & so couldn't be believed. So which is It?
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One can read, thank you.
Very few would lower themselves to spit on a rapist and paedophile. If the creature Brueckner is proven to be all that and a child murderer to boot you will have outclassed yourself in your comments.
Brueckner was free and on the loose on May three.
You don't know where he was and what he was doing ... yet again without fail you leap to his defence in almost every post you make.
It really is not a good look to worry about ''a miscarriage of justice'' for the rapist and child molester while throwing buckets of poisonous innuendo at
- all and sundry who are not Bueckner
- while coming up with every excuse in the book and some even Brueckner hadn't thought about yet as you leap to his defence
Do a fact check ... just reread the content of your posts.
One tends to go on the evidence of these things but if the German police, the Met police and the Portuguese police can’t find enough in almost eight years enough of it to even question Brueckner then it probably doesn’t exist. Lest we forget it only took the combined efforts of the Portuguese and German police a few short years to convict him of the rape of Diane Menkes. One hair it took to convict him and they obviously don’t even have that in this case.
For clarity I don’t think that Freud had anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine but if his offending record had been known about at the time he certainly should have been investigated. Much like Brueckner. The difference is Brueckner has been investigated and after almost eight years the police of three jurisdictions have been unable to find enough evidence even to arrest him.
Brueckner is a vile specimen who I certainly think is safer behind bars but there is, to date, not enough evidence to link him to Madeleine’s disappearance. That’s not supporting or cheerleading for him, that’s simply the truth and it is rather linear thinking on your part to assume that it is.
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The three women who came forward with rape allegations about Freud claimed their abuse occurred between the 1940s and the 1970s. Astounding that you think an ancient old celebrity (who we don’t even know was residing in the area at the time) was a more likely candidate for the abduction and murder of Madeleine than the current prime suspect who is a known paedophile, burglar present in the area at the time and who committed a violent rape in PdL itself. If anyone has been drinking dear Faith it surely must have been you.
If you are now apparently willing to accept the possibility that Madeleine woke and wandered into the hands of a murderous paedo on the streets of PdL please explain to us why you don’t think it could have been CB and is much more likely to have been 83 year old ex-Liberal MP, author and TV presenter Clement Freud. Another question for you to ignore.
I believe none of the above of course but if past offending puts you in the frame then Freud certainly should have been there.
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According to you the anonymous police source was Amaral, & so couldn't be believed. So which is It?
Whether it’s true or not (and as the Pj were so rubbish in the early days I very much doubt they visited all or any paedophiles in the area) the concept of visiting paedophiles and eliminating them from their enquiries in such circumstances was clearly not a “really stupid” one as you claim, it is in fact fairly standard police procedure. That’s why the mystery spokesman mentioned it, in an attempt to portray the Portuguese police as rigorous and competent. Understand now?
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I believe none of the above of course but if past offending puts you in the frame then Freud certainly should have been there.
Was he even there on the night of 3rd May? You seem certain of it so please provide the evidence, eg his phone pinged on a nearby mast.
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One tends to go on the evidence of these things but if the German police, the Met police and the Portuguese police can’t find enough in almost eight years enough of it to even question Brueckner then it probably doesn’t exist. Lest we forget it only took the combined efforts of the Portuguese and German police a few short years to convict him of the rape of Diane Menkes. One hair it took to convict him and they obviously don’t even have that in this case.
For clarity I don’t think that Freud had anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine but if his offending record had been known about at the time he certainly should have been investigated. Much like Brueckner. The difference is Brueckner has been investigated and after almost eight years the police of three jurisdictions have been unable to find enough evidence even to arrest him.
Brueckner is a vile specimen who I certainly think is safer behind bars but there is, to date, not enough evidence to link him to Madeleine’s disappearance. That’s not supporting or cheerleading for him, that’s simply the truth and it is rather linear thinking on your part to assume that it is.
Do you understand the difference between no evidence and not enough evidence? One knock for yes, two for no will suffice.
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Whether it’s true or not (and as the Pj were so rubbish in the early days I very much doubt they visited all or any paedophiles in the area) the concept of visiting paedophiles and eliminating them from their enquiries in such circumstances was clearly not a “really stupid” one as you claim, it is in fact fairly standard police procedure. That’s why the mystery spokesman mentioned it, in an attempt to portray the Portuguese police as rigorous and competent. Understand now?
What happens when the paedo exercises their right to silence?
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It's the 3rd of May 2007. Madeleine has just been reported missing. What reason is there to suspect Christian Brueckner?
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What happens when the paedo exercises their right to silence?
If they are unable to provide an account of their movements or an alibi for the night in question you keep them in the frame. Maybe you confiscate their phone and laptop and examine that if you have strong grounds for suspicion, see what that throws up. How do any cases result in a successful conviction when most suspects exercise their right to silence, in your view?
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If they are unable to provide an account of their movements or an alibi for the night in question you keep them in the frame. Maybe you confiscate their phone and laptop and examine that if you have strong grounds for suspicion, see what that throws up. How do any cases result in a successful conviction when most suspects exercise their right to silence, in your view?
No. The police can't confiscate items without a warrant. And they can't obtain a warrant just because a private citizen, against whom there is no evidence, exercises their right to silence.
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No. The police can't confiscate items without a warrant. And they can't obtain a warrant just because a private citizen, against whom there is no evidence, exercises their right to silence.
Did you read what I wrote? If they have strong grounds for suspicion which would indeed constitute having some evidence. Seriously, how do you imagine any cases are solved when suspects exercise their right to silence? if it’s really stupid to pay a visit to all the local paedos when a child mysteriously vanishes in the night why do you think the PJ did it (allegedly)? Is it because they are really stupid?
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It's the 3rd of May 2007. Madeleine has just been reported missing. What reason is there to suspect Christian Brueckner?
What reason is there to clear him? Everyone is a suspect remember?
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Did you read what I wrote? If they have strong grounds for suspicion which would indeed constitute having some evidence. Seriously, how do you imagine any cases are solved when suspects exercise their right to silence? if it’s really stupid to pay a visit to all the local paedos when a child mysteriously vanishes in the night why do you think the PJ did it (allegedly)? Is it because they are really stupid?
There were no 'strong grounds for suspicion' against Christian Brueckner as of May 2007. As it happens the grounds for suspicion against him aren't much greater than they were 18 years ago. Hence the reason he won't be getting charged, any time in the foreseeable future.
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What reason is there to clear him? Everyone is a suspect remember?
The fact that there wasn't any abduction.
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The fact that there wasn't any abduction.
That’s not a fact.
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There were no 'strong grounds for suspicion' against Christian Brueckner as of May 2007. As it happens the grounds for suspicion against him aren't much greater than they were 18 years ago. Hence the reason he won't be getting charged, any time in the foreseeable future.
There are strong grounds for suspicion against Bruckner- you can’t now be made an arguido without them. If the police had done their jobs properly in May 2007 these strong grounds for suspicion would have been discovered then.
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That’s not a fact.
How do you Know?
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There are strong grounds for suspicion against Bruckner- you can’t now be made an arguido without them. If the police had done their jobs properly in May 2007 these strong grounds for suspicion would have been discovered then.
It's not the PJ's fault that Busching kept his mouth shut for the best part of a decade.
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We're back to 'the police didn't do their job properly'
It's May 3rd 2007. Madeleine has just been reported missing. What good reason is there to suspect Christian Brueckner?
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How do you Know?
Because you cannot know it for a fact. It’s your opinion. It has not been proven. It’s as dumb as me saying I know the earth is flat.
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It's not the PJ's fault that Busching kept his mouth shut for the best part of a decade.
It is the PJs fault that they did not rigorously investigate the rape of Diane Menkes, establishing who lived nearby and who passed her house every day, someone who had a history of sex crimes (which were known to the Portuguese judicial system) and whose DNA was found in her bed. It is the PJ’s fault for not rigorously investigating CCTV footage in PdL which might have revealed exactly who was where that night and for not following up on countless leads just one of which may have solved the mystery in 2007.
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Because you cannot know it for a fact. It’s your opinion. It has not been proven. It’s as dumb as me saying I know the earth is flat.
It may not be a fact in law, but what if the McCanns actually did It?
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It is the PJs fault that they did not rigorously investigate the rape of Diane Menkes, establishing who lived nearby and who passed her house every day, someone who had a history of sex crimes (which were known to the Portuguese judicial system) and whose DNA was found in her bed. It is the PJ’s fault for not rigorously investigating CCTV footage in PdL which might have revealed exactly who was where that night and for not following up on countless leads just one of which may have solved the mystery in 2007.
The DM rape is entirely unrelated to Madeleine’s disappearance. That is fact.
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Jane Tanner told the police she saw the abductor. Her description of the man is nothing like Brueckner. There is a sighting of Gerry though, so it's more likely it was him.
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We're back to 'the police didn't do their job properly'
It's May 3rd 2007. Madeleine has just been reported missing. What good reason is there to suspect Christian Brueckner?
He’s one of a number of paedophiles living in the area, someone with a criminal past who makes a living by among other things breaking into holiday apartments. Further investigation into him at the time would have revealed his phone placed him in or near the centre of PdL on the evening of the disappearance. His mugshot could have been shown to the number of eyewitnesses who claim they saw suspicious activity around thr apartment in the days preceding the disappearance. Madeleine’s bedding could have been sent for DNA analysis and could have provided evidence that he had taken her from her bed. Many missed opportunities.
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It may not be a fact in law, but what if the McCanns actually did It?
What if the Earth really is flat?
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The DM rape is entirely unrelated to Madeleine’s disappearance. That is fact.
No it isn’t.
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Jane Tanner told the police she saw the abductor. Her description of the man is nothing like Brueckner. There is a sighting of Gerry though, so it's more likely it was him.
Promise me you will never apply for a job in the police. Mind you if Trump is right about the prevelance of DEI in society meaning any old intellectualy challenged numpty can get a job in a position of responsibility and authority you probably stand a good chance of being made DCI.
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He’s one of a number of paedophiles living in the area, someone with a criminal past who makes a living by among other things breaking into holiday apartments. Further investigation into him at the time would have revealed his phone placed him in or near the centre of PdL on the evening of the disappearance. His mugshot could have been shown to the number of eyewitnesses who claim they saw suspicious activity around thr apartment in the days preceding the disappearance. Madeleine’s bedding could have been sent for DNA analysis and could have provided evidence that he had taken her from her bed. Many missed opportunities.
His phone information did not place him in the centre of PDL. It placed him somewhere within about a 15 mile area iirc. Him receiving a phone call is evidence of nothing other than he had a bit of chat
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Promise me you will never apply for a job in the police. Mind you if Trump is right about the prevelance of DEI in society meaning any old intellectualy challenged numpty can get a job in a position of responsibility and authority you probably stand a good chance of being made DCI.
Yes. Attack the poster not the post.
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Jane Tanner told the police she saw the abductor. Her description of the man is nothing like Brueckner. There is a sighting of Gerry though, so it's more likely it was him.
Totman was very likely who Jane Tanner saw. It was almost certainly not Bruckner. Gerry was at the Tapas table when the Smith sighting occurred so unless you are putting 7 friends in the frame as accossories to murder it couldn’t have been him. The police decided it could not have been him. Gerry is no longer a suspect and hasn’t been one since 2008. It’s time to move on.
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His phone information did not place him in the centre of PDL. It placed him somewhere within about a 15 mile area iirc. Him receiving a phone call is evidence of nothing other than he had a bit of chat
5 sq Km I seem to recall, at the most a 5 minute drive from Apartment 5a. A phone call which at the least gives him opportunity. We already have motive.
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Totman was very likely who Jane Tanner saw. It was almost certainly not Bruckner. Gerry was at the Tapas table when the Smith sighting occurred so unless you are putting 7 friends in the frame as accossories to murder it couldn’t have been him. The police decided it could not have been him. Gerry is no longer a suspect and hasn’t been one since 2008. It’s time to move on.
Totman was walking in the opposite direction according to most of your camp.
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Yes. Attack the poster not the post.
Gladly, when they’re self confessed WUMs like you, it’s all you deserve really.
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Totman was walking in the opposite direction according to most of your camp.
According to Totman?
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5 sq Km I seem to recall, at the most a 5 minute drive from Apartment 5a. A phone call which at the least gives him opportunity. We already have motive.
We know for sure the McCanns were closer to the apartment. So it's more likely it was them.
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We know for sure the McCanns were closer to the apartment. So it's more likely it was them.
We know for sure that the twins were the closest so it’s more likely it was them. Or the old woman upstairs. It was probably her like Holly Goodhead kept telling us.
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Kate's prints were on the window, not Brueckner's, so it's more likely it was her that opened it.
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Anyway. What's the supposed connection between the rape of DM & Madeleine’s disappearance? Is there anything less vague than that they happened in the same area?
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Kate's prints were on the window, not Brueckner's, so it's more likely it was her that opened it.
Gosh, how incriminating- her fingerprints were found on the window of the apartment she had been living in for 6 days. Call the cops.
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Anyway. What's the supposed connection between the rape of DM & Madeleine’s disappearance? Is there anything less vague than that they happened in the same area?
The connection is Christian Bruckner. He was the perpetrator in one crime and is the key and only suspect in the other.
Now, guess what day it is today?
Yes, that’s right children.
It’s Groundhog Day.
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The connection is Christian Bruckner. He was the perpetrator in one crime and is the key and only suspect in the other.
Now, guess what day it is today?
Yes, that’s right children.
It’s Groundhog Day.
What do you mean by key suspect? I haven't heard the three expert investigative forces describe him as the key suspect.
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Gosh, how incriminating- her fingerprints were found on the window of the apartment she had been living in for 6 days. Call the cops.
She never told the police she touched the window. Why Not?
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Come to think of it, I haven't seen or heard Grange describe him as the key or prime suspect either.
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She never told the police she touched the window. Why Not?
If they found her fingerprints on the window and thought this was deeply suspicious why wasn’t it one of the (asinine) questions they put to her when she was questioned as an arguido?
Plod: Why were your fingerprints on the window?
Kate McCann: I must have touched it when I was opening the curtain, closing the curtain, opening the window, closing the window, on one of the days or nights I was staying in the apartment.
Plod: How very suspicious. Kate McCann we’re placing you under arrest for the murder of your daughter.
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Come to think of it, I haven't seen or heard Grange describe him as the key or prime suspect either.
Only the Portuguese and the Germans then. Oh well, two out of three ain’t bad.
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What do you mean by key suspect? I haven't heard the three expert investigative forces describe him as the key suspect.
“A key suspect is a person who is considered to be the most likely suspect in a crime investigation by law enforcement“. Thanks AI, couldn’t have put it better myself!
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“A key suspect is a person who is considered to be the most likely suspect in a crime investigation by law enforcement“. Thanks AI, couldn’t have put it better myself!
Grange have never described him as the most likely suspect. Neither have the PJ. Only Wolters, & he just saw a prosecution against Brueckner fail spectacularly. Doesn't add much confidence to his claims.
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Grange have never described him as the most likely suspect. Neither have the PJ. Only Wolters, & he just saw a prosecution against Brueckner fail spectacularly. Doesn't add much confidence to his claims.
The PJ have him as their only arguido in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. You may choose to believe that that doesn’t mean he is the key suspect but that is your choice. It’s obvious to people who are not on a silly wind up that he is the key and only suspect as far as they are concerned. The Met are convinced Madeleine was abducted and are supporting the German investigation. I think it’s safe to take an inference from that, that Bruckner is the key suspect as far as they are concerned too. But, if you prefer to believe that the Met and the PJ’s key and only suspects are the parents and their mates, well again your choice and not supported by anything remotely resembling a fact.
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The PJ have him as their only arguido in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. You may choose to believe that that doesn’t mean he is the key suspect but that is your choice. It’s obvious to people who are not on a silly wind up that he is the key and only suspect as far as they are concerned. The Met are convinced Madeleine was abducted and are supporting the German investigation. I think it’s safe to take an inference from that, that Bruckner is the key suspect as far as they are concerned too. But, if you prefer to believe that the Met and the PJ’s key and only suspects are the parents and their mates, well again your choice and not supported by anything remotely resembling a fact.
The last word from the MET they continued to state they were investigating Madeleine's disappearance. Strange that they haven't upgraded to a murder investigation, considering they've seen the wealth of murder evidence Wolters has shared with them. According to Wolters if we knew the evidence we would reach the same conclusion. Why haven't the MET, the PJ and the McCanns?
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The last word from the MET they continued to state they were investigating Madeleine's disappearance. Strange that they haven't upgraded to a murder investigation, considering they've seen the wealth of murder evidence Wolters has shared with them. According to Wolters if we knew the evidence we would reach the same conclusion. Why haven't the MET, the PJ and the McCanns?
I seem to remember a big sceptic hooha years ago when it was revealed that the Met had put members of its Homicide squad into the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance. How can this possibly be they screamed when they are claiming it’s only a disappearance and that she may still be alive? Well, use your noggins numpties. Obviously it’s almost certainly an abduction and murder investigation but without firm proof of that it remains a missing persons enquiry. I agree that if he hasn’t already done so by now HCW should certainly share all the German evidence with the Met and the McCanns (not the PJ though as it would be front page news of all their tabloids the following day if they did so). I suspect that probably has happened hence no more statements from the McCanns indicating they hold out hope of being reunited with her, just a statement of hope that one day they will know what happened to her.
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I seem to remember a big sceptic hooha years ago when it was revealed that the Met had put members of its Homicide squad into the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance. How can this possibly be they screamed when they are claiming it’s only a disappearance and that she may still be alive? Well, use your noggins numpties. Obviously it’s almost certainly an abduction and murder investigation but without firm proof of that it remains a missing persons enquiry. I agree that if he hasn’t already done so by now HCW should certainly share all the German evidence with the Met and the McCanns (not the PJ though as it would be front page news of all their tabloids the following day if they did so). I suspect that probably has happened hence no more statements from the McCanns indicating they hold out hope of being reunited with her, just a statement of hope that one day they will know what happened to her.
This makes no sense. If the evidence is so convincing that it leads to no other conclusion, then that's proof, & yet the key new prime suspect is never being charged. At least not so far as Wolters can forsee. It's an unbelievable state of affairs.
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This makes no sense. If the evidence is so convincing that it leads to no other conclusion, then that's proof, & yet the key new prime suspect is never being charged. At least not so far as Wolters can forsee. It's an unbelievable state of affairs.
It may make more sense if we knew what that evidence was that compelled Wolters to believe Madeleine was dead. For example evidence could have been found when there were (illegal) police searches on his property that pointed strongly to Madeleine’s death at Bruckner’s hands but because of the circumstances in which that evidence was gathered they know they cannot use it against him.
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It may make more sense if we knew what that evidence was that compelled Wolters to believe Madeleine was dead. For example evidence could have been found when there were (illegal) police searches on his property that pointed strongly to Madeleine’s death at Bruckner’s hands but because of the circumstances in which that evidence was gathered they know they cannot use it against him.
Which force do you imagine carried out this imaginary illegal bungled raid? Wait, don't tell me the PJ Right?!
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Which force do you imagine carried out this imaginary illegal bungled raid? Wait, don't tell me the PJ Right?!
No, the Germans.
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No, the Germans.
But Wolters claims Madeleine was murdered in Portugal. Not forgetting that in 2022 he stated they had enough evidence to charge. He's never mentioned anything about inadmissible evidence What evidence could there possibly have been in Germany when she was murdered in Portugal? It doesn't make any sense, which means it most likely isn't true.
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But Wolters claims Madeleine was murdered in Portugal. Not forgetting that in 2022 he stated they had enough evidence to charge. He's never mentioned anything about inadmissible evidence What evidence could there possibly have been in Germany when she was murdered in Portugal? It doesn't make any sense, which means it most likely isn't true.
Do try to keep up. No wonder you write such rubbish.
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But Wolters claims Madeleine was murdered in Portugal. Not forgetting that in 2022 he stated they had enough evidence to charge. He's never mentioned anything about inadmissible evidence What evidence could there possibly have been in Germany when she was murdered in Portugal? It doesn't make any sense, which means it most likely isn't true.
You do know Bruckner had a property in Germany on which various incriminating evidence such as USB sticks were uncovered under his buried dead dog right? But because it was obtained without a search warrant it was deemed to have been gathered illegally?
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You do know Bruckner had a property in Germany on which various incriminating evidence such as USB sticks were uncovered under his buried dead dog right? But because it was obtained without a search warrant it was deemed to have been gathered illegally?
I don't pay much attention to the case against Brueckner tbh. Because there isn't one.
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I don't pay much attention to the case against Brueckner tbh. Because there isn't one.
Ignorance is bliss eh?
I wouldn’t read the following either if I were you. Posted as a little reminder about Spam’s hero:
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner’s emails ‘relevant to disappearance’
Defence lawyers for the prime suspect in the case said information from his computer hard-drive was seized without permission
April 03 2024, 10.20pm
Tito Stampa, an investigator from the Federal Criminal Police (BKA), Germany’s equivalent of the FBI, said while giving evidence in an unrelated case that police had located three separate Hotmail accounts belonging to Christian Brueckner.
The BKA was handed Christian Brueckner’s hard-drive by an unnamed female witness in Portugal.
Brueckner is on trial in Braunschweig, accused of carrying out sex attacks on women and children in Portugal, where he was living when Madeleine vanished in 2007.
• Who is Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner?
The 47-year-old has denied involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance from the southern resort of Praia da Luz. Four years ago he was named as the prime suspect in the case, although he has not been charged.
Friedrich Fülscher, Brueckner’s lawyer, said the hard-drive seized in Portugal should be dismissed as evidence heard in court
Friedrich Fülscher, Brueckner’s lawyer, said the hard-drive seized in Portugal should be dismissed as evidence heard in court
JULIAN STRATENSCHULTE/DPA/ALAMY LIVE NEWS
Friedrich Fülscher, Brueckner’s lawyer, said: “This is simply not allowed. The German police can’t simply go and secure evidence in another country without any authorisation.
“The Portuguese authorities were not even informed … It is as if the German police just went to England and started carrying out a police investigation there and then seizing evidence and flying it back to Germany. It’s outrageous.”
Stampa said that in 2017 the BKA had applied to Microsoft Ireland for permission to securely access the Hotmail accounts, which it was granted in 2018.
However, the investigators found the inboxes’ contents had been completely deleted for the first half of 2007, including May, the time when Madeleine disappeared shortly before her fourth birthday. In the outboxes they discovered that Brueckner had sent obscene photos and various versions of two stories depicting abduction and abuse.
The prosecution said that detectives found a copy of one of the stories on a USB stick during a police search in 2016 on Brueckner’s dilapidated box factory site in Neuwegersleben, east Germany.
Madeleine McCann went missing while on holiday in Praia da Luz, Portugal
Madeleine McCann went missing while on holiday in Praia da Luz, Portugal
PA
The defence has consistently tried to prevent the details of the Portugal hard-drive from being heard in court, arguing that it was seized without permission. They also argue that prosecutors cannot prove that Brueckner was the author of the stories.
Brueckner is in a high-security prison in Oldenburg, near Bremen, serving a seven-year sentence for the rape of a woman in Portugal in 2005.
His trial involves allegations that he raped a woman in June 2004 in Praia da Rocha, and later raped and abused a teenage girl and an elderly woman at his house in Praia da Luz between December 2000 and June 2006.
He is also accused of exposing himself and masturbating in front of children on at least two occasions while in Portugal and, separately, insulting prison officers in Germany.
The trial continues.
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So in 2007 Christian Bruckner was writing about abducting a 5 year old girl and her mother in his van and raping one in front of the other. But that is not the evidence that links him directly to the Madeleine McCann case according to the German detective who presented this evidence in court. That evidence he cannot disclose but presumably it would be more compelling than the fact of Bruckner’s sick sadistic fantasies (which incidentally he had tried to delete from his inbox).
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So he wrote some bogus stories about abducting abusing & murdering kids. He told an undertaker that he destroyed the evidence. He boasted to Busching that he knew all about what happened to Maddie. It's all real credible stuff isn't it.
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Ignorance is bliss eh?
I wouldn’t read the following either if I were you. Posted as a little reminder about Spam’s hero:
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner’s emails ‘relevant to disappearance’
Defence lawyers for the prime suspect in the case said information from his computer hard-drive was seized without permission
April 03 2024, 10.20pm
Tito Stampa, an investigator from the Federal Criminal Police (BKA), Germany’s equivalent of the FBI, said while giving evidence in an unrelated case that police had located three separate Hotmail accounts belonging to Christian Brueckner.
The BKA was handed Christian Brueckner’s hard-drive by an unnamed female witness in Portugal.
Brueckner is on trial in Braunschweig, accused of carrying out sex attacks on women and children in Portugal, where he was living when Madeleine vanished in 2007.
• Who is Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner?
The 47-year-old has denied involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance from the southern resort of Praia da Luz. Four years ago he was named as the prime suspect in the case, although he has not been charged.
Friedrich Fülscher, Brueckner’s lawyer, said the hard-drive seized in Portugal should be dismissed as evidence heard in court
Friedrich Fülscher, Brueckner’s lawyer, said the hard-drive seized in Portugal should be dismissed as evidence heard in court
JULIAN STRATENSCHULTE/DPA/ALAMY LIVE NEWS
Friedrich Fülscher, Brueckner’s lawyer, said: “This is simply not allowed. The German police can’t simply go and secure evidence in another country without any authorisation.
“The Portuguese authorities were not even informed … It is as if the German police just went to England and started carrying out a police investigation there and then seizing evidence and flying it back to Germany. It’s outrageous.”
Stampa said that in 2017 the BKA had applied to Microsoft Ireland for permission to securely access the Hotmail accounts, which it was granted in 2018.
However, the investigators found the inboxes’ contents had been completely deleted for the first half of 2007, including May, the time when Madeleine disappeared shortly before her fourth birthday. In the outboxes they discovered that Brueckner had sent obscene photos and various versions of two stories depicting abduction and abuse.
The prosecution said that detectives found a copy of one of the stories on a USB stick during a police search in 2016 on Brueckner’s dilapidated box factory site in Neuwegersleben, east Germany.
Madeleine McCann went missing while on holiday in Praia da Luz, Portugal
Madeleine McCann went missing while on holiday in Praia da Luz, Portugal
PA
The defence has consistently tried to prevent the details of the Portugal hard-drive from being heard in court, arguing that it was seized without permission. They also argue that prosecutors cannot prove that Brueckner was the author of the stories.
Brueckner is in a high-security prison in Oldenburg, near Bremen, serving a seven-year sentence for the rape of a woman in Portugal in 2005.
His trial involves allegations that he raped a woman in June 2004 in Praia da Rocha, and later raped and abused a teenage girl and an elderly woman at his house in Praia da Luz between December 2000 and June 2006.
He is also accused of exposing himself and masturbating in front of children on at least two occasions while in Portugal and, separately, insulting prison officers in Germany.
The trial continues.
According to this article he raped & abused a woman & teenage girl between 2000 & 2006. He's got some real stamina.
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Was he even there on the night of 3rd May? You seem certain of it so please provide the evidence, eg his phone pinged on a nearby mast.
As he lived near PDL I’d be surprised if his phone hadn’t pinged off a nearby mast, if he was indeed in PDL. Much like Brueckner really.
It’s a pity that Freud’s offending wasn’t exposed until later. I wonder if OG did any kind of investigation around him?
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So he wrote some bogus stories about abducting abusing & murdering kids. He told an undertaker that he destroyed the evidence. He boasted to Busching that he knew all about what happened to Maddie. It's all real credible stuff isn't it.
Just imagine if a story about raping a young girl in front of her mother had been found on David Payne’s laptop.
Yes itis credible stuff which together with all the other stuff paints a compelling picture, even if not sufficient evidence to charge.
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As he lived near PDL I’d be surprised if his phone hadn’t pinged off a nearby mast, if he was indeed in PDL. Much like Brueckner really.
It’s a pity that Freud’s offending wasn’t exposed until later. I wonder if OG did any kind of investigation around him?
Why do you keep banging on about Freud when you don’t think he was involved and there’s absolutely no evidence at all that he was involved. Bruckner’s phone pinging in PdL isn’t surprising but it puts him there that night.
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Why do you keep banging on about Freud when you don’t think he was involved and there’s absolutely no evidence at all that he was involved. Bruckner’s phone pinging in PdL isn’t surprising but it puts him there that night.
Brueckner’s phone pinged on a nearby mast…just to be clear.
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Brueckner’s phone pinged on a nearby mast…just to be clear.
What did I write that was different?
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Just imagine if a story about raping a young girl in front of her mother had been found on David Payne’s laptop.
Yes itis credible stuff which together with all the other stuff paints a compelling picture, even if not sufficient evidence to charge.
Wolters has sufficient evidence to charge. He said as much 3 years ago and he wouldn't ever lie or exaggerate. Brueckner didn't seem too concerned about it though, in as much as he made cartoon drawings mocking the prosecution. Very brave of him, considering he left a confession & photos of Madeleine's murder on his USB. The man has balls of steel.
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Wolters has sufficient evidence to charge. He said as much 3 years ago and he wouldn't ever lie or exaggerate. Brueckner didn't seem too concerned about it though, in as much as he made cartoon drawings mocking the prosecution. Very brave of him, considering he left a confession & photos of Madeleine's murder on his USB. The man has balls of steel.
Oh well he drew a cartoon, that proves he’s innocent. Amazing logic, well done.
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Oh well he drew a cartoon, that proves he’s innocent. Amazing logic, well done.
He didn't just do that. He openly challenged the state prosecutor to put up or shut up, & now he has shut up.
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He didn't just do that. He openly challenged the state prosecutor to put up or shut up, & now he has shut up.
Has Bruckner been cleared? Has he ceased being the key and only suspect? Bruckner is just behaving like a typical psychopath in prison imo, revelling in the attention and attempting to control the narrative.
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Has Bruckner been cleared? Has he ceased being the key and only suspect? Bruckner is just behaving like a typical psychopath in prison imo, revelling in the attention and attempting to control the narrative.
Yes. By default he has been cleared. In as much as he's never being charged. He enjoys precisely the same level of innocence as the McCanns.
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Has Bruckner been cleared? Has he ceased being the key and only suspect? Bruckner is just behaving like a typical psychopath in prison imo, revelling in the attention and attempting to control the narrative.
I admire your stoicism, or is it a delusion, desperately clinging to your false prophet in your purple trackie and magic headress, waiting for the mothership to transport you to Rigel 7. The enigmatic leader will be round shortly with the space pills.
HCW's track record in this case makes for grim reading - finds the man, despite him being handed on a plate, is convinced of CB's guilt and tells the world as much back in June '21. A couple of years on with nlittle by way of developments, he now discloses that there's no forensic evidence to link CB to MM, which must have been a blow and should have been a red flag to the stalwart MACA supporters. Despite CB being in prison and completely unable to obfuscate, hide or destroy evidence, no charges are brought and only a few weeks ago HCW admits that, sadly, there's insufficient evidence and he's probably getting released in September.
Meanwhile, running concurrently, HCW cobbles a load of charges together using similarly scant evidence, not so much in the pursuit of justice, but in a vain attempt to keep CB incarcerated and bolster the rapist nonce monster reputation in the eyes of the world and provide food for thought for presiding judges. The failure was desperate as it was complete; a legal calamity of monumental magnitude and one that has only served to add to the despair of the bemused parents.
Yet you guys still cling to this perennial loser. It may be time to draw a veil over this whole debacle and consign HCW to the annals of MM folklore.
Who's controlling the narrative now?
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So he wrote some bogus stories about abducting abusing & murdering kids. He told an undertaker that he destroyed the evidence. He boasted to Busching that he knew all about what happened to Maddie. It's all real credible stuff isn't it.
This is the crux for me actually. The reliance on hearsay, hobobabble, emails that were there but aren't, USB drives under dead dogs that are clearly not inculpatory in any way otherwise HCW would have added a few charges to his ill-fated trial, fantasy stories about sordid crimes that probably comprised part of CB's wank bank, a phone ping off a mast in the general vicinity of where he lived, a phone call from a burner phone at the time and absolutely no forensic evidence and no prospect of him being charged any time soon.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's time for a new hobo nonce now, or a potential people trafficker, so we can all move on and concentrate on solving this thing.
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You may think you know but you don’t know it.
what.....of course I know what I think.
The mccs were involved in what happened to Maddie.
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Dear Kizzy,
I don't rate you as bad. I just think that you have fallen hook, line and sinker, for the multitude of disinformation that has been blasted at us. We have been engulfed by deliberate lies and red herrings galore.
Many Posters, early on, noticed the dreadful lies put about by Amaral and certain other PJ Chief Inspectors. And noticed altered, deliberately rearranged information from various sources. Very cleverly changed information and done on a massive scale.
These posters became questioning at a very early stage. The lies caused us to analyse the situation in greater depth than a lot of people ... and amongst other things we found very cruel torture of suspects and wholesale sexual abuse of children. The suspects being tortured appeared to have no incriminating FACTS against them, in fact to many of us they seemed to be patsys. Patsys to be the fall guys and stop the search for the real culprits
Have you read about Casa Pia and the rape of boys there? IMO a massive Industry was taking place and probably still is to supply the lust of some extremely rich and important men and make mega bucks.
Any man who has raped a child and been secretly photographed, is then a perfect target for blackmail and extortion of money. Judges can be 'persuaded' to alter judgements, for instance. To be labelled a 'nonce' in prison would ensure a stay of great violence. Most prisoners hate men who rape children.
No, not you, Kizzy, I don't rate you as bad. I think that you have just got swept along with it all and mistakenly believe the rubbish and red herrings that have engulfed us. And I think that you are a fighter who pluckily fights for what she mistakenly believes in... but you have got it wrong ... soz. Some on here, however, I do rate as bad.
Have we learned anything in the last 16 years?
Yes, we have learned that the human race can be persuaded to believe lies, if enough disinformation is put out in the right way ... but it is a mighty job. The human race can also be persuaded to back the lies and fight for the wrong ends.
With A1 looming, that is a very frightening prospect.
I just think that you have fallen hook, line and sinker, for the multitude of disinformation
No Sadie, I have never been one to believe what I am told..I so by my own intuition.
Its like I have already mentioned the mccs faces did have grief ...
But not the torment of thinking your child had been took by a peodo.
Looking at them very early on ...I did think something is not right here. the red flags started to appear.
The photo they put out of a much younger Maddie....seems it must of caused a lot of confusion...why that one
Leaving the twins in crèche the very next day..not suspecting any of T7
Oh and hundreds of other things.
If Sadie.. like you think I have been lead by a multitude of missinformation....it is only my own.
Useless information..but ny favourite game from being young ...was Cluedo.
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Yes. By default he has been cleared. In as much as he's never being charged. He enjoys precisely the same level of innocence as the McCanns.
I do think CB level of innocence should be greater than the mccs
The reason being everything about CB has been hung out to dry in the public domain
Yet the mccs because of the threat of being sued it seems people are afraid to speak out in the public dormain
throwing a cloak of secrecy over there past life or suspicions of them...its a one way track.
Beacause they the mccs said Maddie was abducted...an in public that is all u can comment on.
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I do think CB level of innocence should be greater than the mccs
The reason being everything about CB has been hung out to dry in the public domain
Yet the mccs because of the threat of being sued it seems people are afraid to speak out in the public dormain
throwing a cloak of secrecy over there past life or suspicions of them...its a one way track.
Beacause they the mccs said Maddie was abducted...an in public that is all u can comment on.
Christian Brueckner rapes women
CB molests little girls
Your comparison with the parents of a missing child is really very sick.
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Christian Brueckner rapes women
CB molests little girls
Your comparison with the parents of a missing child is really very sick.
Ok whatever.....its your opinion
My opinion is - what is sick is that you know full well its in relation with CB being a suspect in the so called abduction of Maddie.
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Christian Brueckner rapes women
CB molests little girls
Your comparison with the parents of a missing child is really very sick.
Correction. He's only ever raped one woman.
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Christian Brueckner rapes women
CB molests little girls
Your comparison with the parents of a missing child is really very sick.
'Sick' as in the street slang? 'Kizzie, yo, dat comparison you spittin' about the Macs is well sick, bruv'.
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I admire your stoicism, or is it a delusion, desperately clinging to your false prophet in your purple trackie and magic headress, waiting for the mothership to transport you to Rigel 7. The enigmatic leader will be round shortly with the space pills.
HCW's track record in this case makes for grim reading - finds the man, despite him being handed on a plate, is convinced of CB's guilt and tells the world as much back in June '21. A couple of years on with nlittle by way of developments, he now discloses that there's no forensic evidence to link CB to MM, which must have been a blow and should have been a red flag to the stalwart MACA supporters. Despite CB being in prison and completely unable to obfuscate, hide or destroy evidence, no charges are brought and only a few weeks ago HCW admits that, sadly, there's insufficient evidence and he's probably getting released in September.
Meanwhile, running concurrently, HCW cobbles a load of charges together using similarly scant evidence, not so much in the pursuit of justice, but in a vain attempt to keep CB incarcerated and bolster the rapist nonce monster reputation in the eyes of the world and provide food for thought for presiding judges. The failure was desperate as it was complete; a legal calamity of monumental magnitude and one that has only served to add to the despair of the bemused parents.
Yet you guys still cling to this perennial loser. It may be time to draw a veil over this whole debacle and consign HCW to the annals of MM folklore.
Who's controlling the narrative now?
Yadda yadda, just a lot of words thrown together hoping to wound, humilate or embarrass and having precisely no effect whatsoever on this particular MACA. I kind of lost the will to read much beyond your repeated and inaccurate claim that HCW has only now revealed there is no forensic evidence. He’s been saying that all along as I t reminded you only a week ago but you carry on believing what you want to believe, I care not a jot.
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Yes. By default he has been cleared. In as much as he's never being charged. He enjoys precisely the same level of innocence as the McCanns.
No he hasn’t and no he doesn’t, and in case you don’t believe what you’ve just written anyway. The McCanns have been cleared and are innocent? Are you doing a 180??!
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Correction. He's only ever raped one woman.
One is too many (and I reckon he did rape HB anyway, she is certain of it and if anyone is likely to know it was him she is).
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No he hasn’t and no he doesn’t, and in case you don’t believe what you’ve just written anyway. The McCanns have been cleared and are innocent? Are you doing a 180??!
The McCanns are presumed innocent & so is Brueckner. Brueckner isn't presumed any less innocent than the McCanns. In 7 months time he'll be enjoying his freedom & no amount of anything Wolters has to say can alter that.
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I do think CB level of innocence should be greater than the mccs
The reason being everything about CB has been hung out to dry in the public domain
Yet the mccs because of the threat of being sued it seems people are afraid to speak out in the public dormain
throwing a cloak of secrecy over there past life or suspicions of them...its a one way track.
Beacause they the mccs said Maddie was abducted...an in public that is all u can comment on.
You are in public and seem quite able to accuse them freely in most of the posts you write.
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One is too many (and I reckon he did rape HB anyway, she is certain of it and if anyone is likely to know it was him she is).
No. He didn't rape Behan. It's been proven in court that he didn't rape her.
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This is the crux for me actually. The reliance on hearsay, hobobabble, emails that were there but aren't, USB drives under dead dogs that are clearly not inculpatory in any way otherwise HCW would have added a few charges to his ill-fated trial, fantasy stories about sordid crimes that probably comprised part of CB's wank bank, a phone ping off a mast in the general vicinity of where he lived, a phone call from a burner phone at the time and absolutely no forensic evidence and no prospect of him being charged any time soon.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's time for a new hobo nonce now, or a potential people trafficker, so we can all move on and concentrate on solving this thing.
Have you ever considered the possibility that CB did do it but that there simply isn’t enough evidence to secure a conviction? This does happen you know, that criminals aren’t prosecuted because there just isn’t enough evidence to prove it bard.
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Have you ever considered the possibility that CB did do it but that there simply isn’t enough evidence to secure a conviction? This does happen you know, that criminals aren’t prosecuted because there just isn’t enough evidence to prove it bard.
But if we knew the evidence Wolters has we would be in no doubt. That's what he said anyway. Quite why that doesn't equate to proof only Wolters knows. But I doubt he'll be explaining himself, anytime in the foreseeable future.
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But if we knew the evidence Wolters has we would be in no doubt. That's what he said anyway. Quite why that doesn't equate to proof only Wolters knows. But I doubt he'll be explaining himself, anytime in the foreseeable future.
Maybe they’re lulling CB into a false sense of security and then just as he’s all packed up and ready to leave prison to hunt for his first little girl to molest the police will arrest him for the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann. That would be most excellent wouldn’t it?
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Maybe they’re lulling CB into a false sense of security and then just as he’s all packed up and ready to leave prison to hunt for his first little girl to molest the police will arrest him for the abduction and murder of Madeleine McCann. That would be most excellent wouldn’t it?
In an ideal situation he gets released, the police tail him & he ends up leading them to the secret paedo bunker where all the missing children of the world are being kept. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world, so it's more likely he gets released & sets up a kiosk close to an old people's home & an infant school & he's back inside within a year.
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No. He didn't rape Behan. It's been proven in court that he didn't rape her.
No it hasn’t.
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In an ideal situation he gets released, the police tail him & he ends up leading them to the secret paedo bunker where all the missing children of the world are being kept. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world, so it's more likely he gets released & sets up a kiosk close to an old people's home & an infant school & he's back inside within a year.
Unfortunately if the BKA don’t nail him by September he’ll probably set up his rape and child abuse business in Suriname or Cambodia on the advice of his lawyers and away from HCW’s evil clutches.
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Unfortunately if the BKA don’t nail him by September he’ll probably set up his rape and child abuse business in Suriname or Cambodia on the advice of his lawyers and away from HCW’s evil clutches.
I didn't get much support for my idea of making Antarctica a sex offenders colony. Send them all there, far away from civil society. I think the problem is they might breed, expand & in a few hundred years create technologies greater than our own leading to a clash of the civilisations, destroying all the normal people & leaving planet earth inhabited by just an entire race of paedophiles.
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Well what a very interesting article I just read over on Websleuths
IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE?
He is the main suspect in the Maddie case. He has now been charged with three counts of rape and two counts of sexual abuse at Braunschweig District Court. Christian B. was acquitted. Jutta Rabe watched the entire trial - and is stunned.
n the name of the people, the following judgement is passed: The accused is acquitted.’ These words, spoken on 8 October 2024 by Ute Inse-Engemann, presiding judge at the Braunschweig Regional Court, caused unrest in the auditorium. Some left the courtroom.
This was followed by the reasons for the judgement, which the judge presented for over an hour. She began by explaining that she did not want to ‘bow to the expectations of the media and the regulars’ tables’. In view of the reporting, it was very obvious that the accused had been prejudged. But: she, the judge, nevertheless decided in favour of an acquittal.
What was this trial about? Christian B. is also the main suspect in the ‘Maddie’ case and has had a long list of previous convictions from an early age, including for rape and sexual abuse
among other things. However, this trial was not (yet) about Maddie McCann, the then four-year-old girl who disappeared from a Portuguese holiday resort in 2007, but about five other charges: In two cases, Christian B. is accused of raping and abusing women. According to the public prosecutor, he recorded these offences on video himself. Helge B. and Manfred S., two former mates of Christian B., found the videos in his flat in Portugal when B. was in prison. They had broken into the flat in 2006 and stolen two video cameras on which they claimed to have seen the rape and torture of an elderly woman and a young girl.
Although the videos have disappeared, the two witnesses testified that they recognised Christian B. as the perpetrator on the videos.
Point 3: This was also about the serious rape and torture of a student in 2004. Hazel Behan from Ireland said that she recognised Christian B. from a newspaper photo as the rapist who had not only raped her several times over four hours in her holiday flat in Portugal, but had also tortured her.
Point 4: The sexual harassment of a German girl in Portugal. Joana E., who was ten years old in 2007, explained that she also recognised Chris- tian B. as the man who had ambushed her on the beach in Salema on holiday, held her down and pleasured himself in front of her.
According to the fifth and final charge, Christian B. allegedly masturbated in front of a group of little girls, aged eleven and twelve, on a playground in Messines in Portugal. Christian B. was reported to the police by the angry parents. A policewoman then arrested him and discovered that he was the subject of an international arrest warrant and a request for extradition from the German authorities.
Christian B. already had several previous convictions, including the sexual abuse of his former girlfriend's five-year-old daughter in Braunschweig and the rape of a 72-year-old American pensioner in Praia da Luz, Portugal, whom he had also tortured and stolen from. He is currently still serving this last prison sentence of seven years.
But back to the sentencing and the judge's accusation against the media. ‘If a person is stylised in the media as a sex monster and child murderer, then it is obvious to the witnesses that it must have been the person in this case,’ the judge explained.
But: The media should, indeed must, also report in order to warn the public about a man whom the court psychologist had placed in the ‘top league of dangerousness’. And: Which of the witnesses were actually supposed to have been influenced by the media coverage? Most of them had already made their initial statements
before Chris tian B. came to the attention of the media. So the judge can only really have meant herself and her chamber by ‘influencing’.
After 37 days in court, the downright humiliating questioning methods of the judge and after her cancellation of the arrest warrants against Christian B., nobody really expected Judge Engemann to convict the convicted rapist and child abuser in her trial. After all, by cancelling the arrest warrants against Christian B. back in July 2024 - after just half of the witnesses had even been heard - she had already signalled that she did not consider him to be an urgent suspect. Which, to put it mildly, was surprising.
THE JUDGE CANCELLED THE ARREST WARRANT BEFORE ALL THE WITNESSES HAD TESTIFIED
Following the cancellation of the arrest warrant, the public prosecutor's office had filed an application for recusal against the court. It was rejected.
Although some of the witnesses gave very detailed and credible accounts of the five charges before the Braunschweig Regional Court, Judge Engemann came to the conclusion that they were either not telling the truth, did not remember precisely enough or could not really remember anyway. For example, the judge assumed that the girls had mistaken Christian B.'s urination for mastur- bation.
She completely ignored the fact that other witnesses supported the statements of the main witnesses.
In the case of the rape videos, for example, a former girlfriend of Christian B., Marina F., a travelling saleswoman from Dresden, had presented a handwritten note from him in which Christian B. urgently asked her to get the video cameras and the associated video tapes out of his house in Portugal as quickly as possible, as otherwise he feared ‘that the police might find them - and then the police would find them.
the police might find them - and then he would have to spend a very long time in prison’.
Christian B. sent this note, with further instructions to his then lover Marina F., to her from prison in Portimao. He had been imprisoned there for eight months in 2006 for stealing diesel together with a partner in crime. Marina F.'s testimony was also corroborated by another statement from a former mate of Christian B., whom he is also said to have asked for help during his imprisonment. Chris- tian P. testified that he had taken several boxes of DVDs out of the house, which B. had allegedly labelled as data carriers of ‘perverted sex practices’.
Judge Engemann paid no attention to these two witnesses. She did not consider the two main witnesses to be credible because their testimonies differed slightly from each other. One witness had testified that the beaten and battered woman in the video was around 60 years old, while the other witness estimated her to be around 70 years old. One of the witnesses had previously testified that Christian B. had first whipped and then violated the woman, but now he had reported the course of events the other way round.
When the Irish woman Hazel Behan, who had been raped and tortured for hours, testified and explained that she had recognised Christian B. by two features in particular, the judge did not accept this. Hazel Behan had testified that she had recognised Christian B. by his striking steel-blue eyes, because she could only see them as Christian B. was wearing a mask during the crime. She had also noticed a scar, a tattoo or something similar on the offender's right thigh.
WHY DID THE JUDGE STATE THAT THERE WAS NO SCAR ON THE THIGH?
The judge ruled that Christian B. did not have a scar on his right thigh. She had the investigation files of the Magdeburg State Criminal Police Office from 2016 before her. These files explicitly mentioned a scar on Christian B.'s right thigh. They also contained photos of Christian B. that had been taken before 2017. These photos show a significant scar on his right thigh, which is described in the police file as a relevant physical feature. Had Christian B. had the scar lasered away in the meantime?
Incidentally, Christian B. had already confessed before Judge Engemann in 2016. At the time, he was accused of sexually abusing the five-year-old daughter of his girlfriend at the time. At the time, the judge explained that she had initially considered whether a suspended sentence was an option. However, as Christian B. was a repeat offender, a prison sentence was the only option. She sentenced him to one year and three months in prison, just above the minimum sentence.
t the end of the trial: acquittal. After these 37 days of proceedings, hardly anyone would have been surprised that the judge had included entire passages of the defence lawyer's closing statement from the previous day verbatim in her reasons for the verdict. The public prosecutor, who had demanded 15 years in prison followed by preventive detention, was stunned.
Forensic psychiatrist Christian Riedemann, who had prepared an expert report on Christian B., had warned before the judgement was announced. Christian B. had a much higher risk of reoffending than any other offender known to him.
The Braunschweig public prosecutor's office has since lodged an appeal against the judgement and announced its intention to appeal to the Federal Court of Justice in Karlsruhe. The question now is whether the case will reach the Federal Supreme Court quickly enough. If not, Christian B. will be a free man in September 2025. JUTTA RABE
https://www.emma.de/sites/default/files/digital/2024/12/emma_2025_01_emagazin_84419_krhgb.pdf
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I didn't get much support for my idea of making Antarctica a sex offenders colony. Send them all there, far away from civil society. I think the problem is they might breed, expand & in a few hundred years create technologies greater than our own leading to a clash of the civilisations, destroying all the normal people & leaving planet earth inhabited by just an entire race of paedophiles.
You back on the drugs again?
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Well what a very interesting article I just read over on Websleuths
IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE?
He is the main suspect in the Maddie case. He has now been charged with three counts of rape and two counts of sexual abuse at Braunschweig District Court. Christian B. was acquitted. Jutta Rabe watched the entire trial - and is stunned.
n the name of the people, the following judgement is passed: The accused is acquitted.’ These words, spoken on 8 October 2024 by Ute Inse-Engemann, presiding judge at the Braunschweig Regional Court, caused unrest in the auditorium. Some left the courtroom.
This was followed by the reasons for the judgement, which the judge presented for over an hour. She began by explaining that she did not want to ‘bow to the expectations of the media and the regulars’ tables’. In view of the reporting, it was very obvious that the accused had been prejudged. But: she, the judge, nevertheless decided in favour of an acquittal.
What was this trial about? Christian B. is also the main suspect in the ‘Maddie’ case and has had a long list of previous convictions from an early age, including for rape and sexual abuse
among other things. However, this trial was not (yet) about Maddie McCann, the then four-year-old girl who disappeared from a Portuguese holiday resort in 2007, but about five other charges: In two cases, Christian B. is accused of raping and abusing women. According to the public prosecutor, he recorded these offences on video himself. Helge B. and Manfred S., two former mates of Christian B., found the videos in his flat in Portugal when B. was in prison. They had broken into the flat in 2006 and stolen two video cameras on which they claimed to have seen the rape and torture of an elderly woman and a young girl.
Although the videos have disappeared, the two witnesses testified that they recognised Christian B. as the perpetrator on the videos.
Point 3: This was also about the serious rape and torture of a student in 2004. Hazel Behan from Ireland said that she recognised Christian B. from a newspaper photo as the rapist who had not only raped her several times over four hours in her holiday flat in Portugal, but had also tortured her.
Point 4: The sexual harassment of a German girl in Portugal. Joana E., who was ten years old in 2007, explained that she also recognised Chris- tian B. as the man who had ambushed her on the beach in Salema on holiday, held her down and pleasured himself in front of her.
According to the fifth and final charge, Christian B. allegedly masturbated in front of a group of little girls, aged eleven and twelve, on a playground in Messines in Portugal. Christian B. was reported to the police by the angry parents. A policewoman then arrested him and discovered that he was the subject of an international arrest warrant and a request for extradition from the German authorities.
Christian B. already had several previous convictions, including the sexual abuse of his former girlfriend's five-year-old daughter in Braunschweig and the rape of a 72-year-old American pensioner in Praia da Luz, Portugal, whom he had also tortured and stolen from. He is currently still serving this last prison sentence of seven years.
But back to the sentencing and the judge's accusation against the media. ‘If a person is stylised in the media as a sex monster and child murderer, then it is obvious to the witnesses that it must have been the person in this case,’ the judge explained.
But: The media should, indeed must, also report in order to warn the public about a man whom the court psychologist had placed in the ‘top league of dangerousness’. And: Which of the witnesses were actually supposed to have been influenced by the media coverage? Most of them had already made their initial statements
before Chris tian B. came to the attention of the media. So the judge can only really have meant herself and her chamber by ‘influencing’.
After 37 days in court, the downright humiliating questioning methods of the judge and after her cancellation of the arrest warrants against Christian B., nobody really expected Judge Engemann to convict the convicted rapist and child abuser in her trial. After all, by cancelling the arrest warrants against Christian B. back in July 2024 - after just half of the witnesses had even been heard - she had already signalled that she did not consider him to be an urgent suspect. Which, to put it mildly, was surprising.
THE JUDGE CANCELLED THE ARREST WARRANT BEFORE ALL THE WITNESSES HAD TESTIFIED
Following the cancellation of the arrest warrant, the public prosecutor's office had filed an application for recusal against the court. It was rejected.
Although some of the witnesses gave very detailed and credible accounts of the five charges before the Braunschweig Regional Court, Judge Engemann came to the conclusion that they were either not telling the truth, did not remember precisely enough or could not really remember anyway. For example, the judge assumed that the girls had mistaken Christian B.'s urination for mastur- bation.
She completely ignored the fact that other witnesses supported the statements of the main witnesses.
In the case of the rape videos, for example, a former girlfriend of Christian B., Marina F., a travelling saleswoman from Dresden, had presented a handwritten note from him in which Christian B. urgently asked her to get the video cameras and the associated video tapes out of his house in Portugal as quickly as possible, as otherwise he feared ‘that the police might find them - and then the police would find them.
the police might find them - and then he would have to spend a very long time in prison’.
Christian B. sent this note, with further instructions to his then lover Marina F., to her from prison in Portimao. He had been imprisoned there for eight months in 2006 for stealing diesel together with a partner in crime. Marina F.'s testimony was also corroborated by another statement from a former mate of Christian B., whom he is also said to have asked for help during his imprisonment. Chris- tian P. testified that he had taken several boxes of DVDs out of the house, which B. had allegedly labelled as data carriers of ‘perverted sex practices’.
Judge Engemann paid no attention to these two witnesses. She did not consider the two main witnesses to be credible because their testimonies differed slightly from each other. One witness had testified that the beaten and battered woman in the video was around 60 years old, while the other witness estimated her to be around 70 years old. One of the witnesses had previously testified that Christian B. had first whipped and then violated the woman, but now he had reported the course of events the other way round.
When the Irish woman Hazel Behan, who had been raped and tortured for hours, testified and explained that she had recognised Christian B. by two features in particular, the judge did not accept this. Hazel Behan had testified that she had recognised Christian B. by his striking steel-blue eyes, because she could only see them as Christian B. was wearing a mask during the crime. She had also noticed a scar, a tattoo or something similar on the offender's right thigh.
WHY DID THE JUDGE STATE THAT THERE WAS NO SCAR ON THE THIGH?
The judge ruled that Christian B. did not have a scar on his right thigh. She had the investigation files of the Magdeburg State Criminal Police Office from 2016 before her. These files explicitly mentioned a scar on Christian B.'s right thigh. They also contained photos of Christian B. that had been taken before 2017. These photos show a significant scar on his right thigh, which is described in the police file as a relevant physical feature. Had Christian B. had the scar lasered away in the meantime?
Incidentally, Christian B. had already confessed before Judge Engemann in 2016. At the time, he was accused of sexually abusing the five-year-old daughter of his girlfriend at the time. At the time, the judge explained that she had initially considered whether a suspended sentence was an option. However, as Christian B. was a repeat offender, a prison sentence was the only option. She sentenced him to one year and three months in prison, just above the minimum sentence.
t the end of the trial: acquittal. After these 37 days of proceedings, hardly anyone would have been surprised that the judge had included entire passages of the defence lawyer's closing statement from the previous day verbatim in her reasons for the verdict. The public prosecutor, who had demanded 15 years in prison followed by preventive detention, was stunned.
Forensic psychiatrist Christian Riedemann, who had prepared an expert report on Christian B., had warned before the judgement was announced. Christian B. had a much higher risk of reoffending than any other offender known to him.
The Braunschweig public prosecutor's office has since lodged an appeal against the judgement and announced its intention to appeal to the Federal Court of Justice in Karlsruhe. The question now is whether the case will reach the Federal Supreme Court quickly enough. If not, Christian B. will be a free man in September 2025. JUTTA RABE
https://www.emma.de/sites/default/files/digital/2024/12/emma_2025_01_emagazin_84419_krhgb.pdf (https://www.emma.de/sites/default/files/digital/2024/12/emma_2025_01_emagazin_84419_krhgb.pdf)
EMMA Magazine: Full translated pdf, a bit rough around the edges but still readable. Jutta Rabe's article on pages 64 - 66...
https://www.mediafire.com/file/r2s27o51wasp4f9/emma_2025_01_emagazin_de.en.pdf/file (https://www.mediafire.com/file/r2s27o51wasp4f9/emma_2025_01_emagazin_de.en.pdf/file)
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Well what a very interesting article I just read over on Websleuths
IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE?
He is the main suspect in the Maddie case. He has now been charged with three counts of rape and two counts of sexual abuse at Braunschweig District Court. Christian B. was acquitted. Jutta Rabe watched the entire trial - and is stunned.
n the name of the people, the following judgement is passed: The accused is acquitted.’ These words, spoken on 8 October 2024 by Ute Inse-Engemann, presiding judge at the Braunschweig Regional Court, caused unrest in the auditorium. Some left the courtroom.
This was followed by the reasons for the judgement, which the judge presented for over an hour. She began by explaining that she did not want to ‘bow to the expectations of the media and the regulars’ tables’. In view of the reporting, it was very obvious that the accused had been prejudged. But: she, the judge, nevertheless decided in favour of an acquittal.
What was this trial about? Christian B. is also the main suspect in the ‘Maddie’ case and has had a long list of previous convictions from an early age, including for rape and sexual abuse
among other things. However, this trial was not (yet) about Maddie McCann, the then four-year-old girl who disappeared from a Portuguese holiday resort in 2007, but about five other charges: In two cases, Christian B. is accused of raping and abusing women. According to the public prosecutor, he recorded these offences on video himself. Helge B. and Manfred S., two former mates of Christian B., found the videos in his flat in Portugal when B. was in prison. They had broken into the flat in 2006 and stolen two video cameras on which they claimed to have seen the rape and torture of an elderly woman and a young girl.
Although the videos have disappeared, the two witnesses testified that they recognised Christian B. as the perpetrator on the videos.
Point 3: This was also about the serious rape and torture of a student in 2004. Hazel Behan from Ireland said that she recognised Christian B. from a newspaper photo as the rapist who had not only raped her several times over four hours in her holiday flat in Portugal, but had also tortured her.
Point 4: The sexual harassment of a German girl in Portugal. Joana E., who was ten years old in 2007, explained that she also recognised Chris- tian B. as the man who had ambushed her on the beach in Salema on holiday, held her down and pleasured himself in front of her.
According to the fifth and final charge, Christian B. allegedly masturbated in front of a group of little girls, aged eleven and twelve, on a playground in Messines in Portugal. Christian B. was reported to the police by the angry parents. A policewoman then arrested him and discovered that he was the subject of an international arrest warrant and a request for extradition from the German authorities.
Christian B. already had several previous convictions, including the sexual abuse of his former girlfriend's five-year-old daughter in Braunschweig and the rape of a 72-year-old American pensioner in Praia da Luz, Portugal, whom he had also tortured and stolen from. He is currently still serving this last prison sentence of seven years.
But back to the sentencing and the judge's accusation against the media. ‘If a person is stylised in the media as a sex monster and child murderer, then it is obvious to the witnesses that it must have been the person in this case,’ the judge explained.
But: The media should, indeed must, also report in order to warn the public about a man whom the court psychologist had placed in the ‘top league of dangerousness’. And: Which of the witnesses were actually supposed to have been influenced by the media coverage? Most of them had already made their initial statements
before Chris tian B. came to the attention of the media. So the judge can only really have meant herself and her chamber by ‘influencing’.
After 37 days in court, the downright humiliating questioning methods of the judge and after her cancellation of the arrest warrants against Christian B., nobody really expected Judge Engemann to convict the convicted rapist and child abuser in her trial. After all, by cancelling the arrest warrants against Christian B. back in July 2024 - after just half of the witnesses had even been heard - she had already signalled that she did not consider him to be an urgent suspect. Which, to put it mildly, was surprising.
THE JUDGE CANCELLED THE ARREST WARRANT BEFORE ALL THE WITNESSES HAD TESTIFIED
Following the cancellation of the arrest warrant, the public prosecutor's office had filed an application for recusal against the court. It was rejected.
Although some of the witnesses gave very detailed and credible accounts of the five charges before the Braunschweig Regional Court, Judge Engemann came to the conclusion that they were either not telling the truth, did not remember precisely enough or could not really remember anyway. For example, the judge assumed that the girls had mistaken Christian B.'s urination for mastur- bation.
She completely ignored the fact that other witnesses supported the statements of the main witnesses.
In the case of the rape videos, for example, a former girlfriend of Christian B., Marina F., a travelling saleswoman from Dresden, had presented a handwritten note from him in which Christian B. urgently asked her to get the video cameras and the associated video tapes out of his house in Portugal as quickly as possible, as otherwise he feared ‘that the police might find them - and then the police would find them.
the police might find them - and then he would have to spend a very long time in prison’.
Christian B. sent this note, with further instructions to his then lover Marina F., to her from prison in Portimao. He had been imprisoned there for eight months in 2006 for stealing diesel together with a partner in crime. Marina F.'s testimony was also corroborated by another statement from a former mate of Christian B., whom he is also said to have asked for help during his imprisonment. Chris- tian P. testified that he had taken several boxes of DVDs out of the house, which B. had allegedly labelled as data carriers of ‘perverted sex practices’.
Judge Engemann paid no attention to these two witnesses. She did not consider the two main witnesses to be credible because their testimonies differed slightly from each other. One witness had testified that the beaten and battered woman in the video was around 60 years old, while the other witness estimated her to be around 70 years old. One of the witnesses had previously testified that Christian B. had first whipped and then violated the woman, but now he had reported the course of events the other way round.
When the Irish woman Hazel Behan, who had been raped and tortured for hours, testified and explained that she had recognised Christian B. by two features in particular, the judge did not accept this. Hazel Behan had testified that she had recognised Christian B. by his striking steel-blue eyes, because she could only see them as Christian B. was wearing a mask during the crime. She had also noticed a scar, a tattoo or something similar on the offender's right thigh.
WHY DID THE JUDGE STATE THAT THERE WAS NO SCAR ON THE THIGH?
The judge ruled that Christian B. did not have a scar on his right thigh. She had the investigation files of the Magdeburg State Criminal Police Office from 2016 before her. These files explicitly mentioned a scar on Christian B.'s right thigh. They also contained photos of Christian B. that had been taken before 2017. These photos show a significant scar on his right thigh, which is described in the police file as a relevant physical feature. Had Christian B. had the scar lasered away in the meantime?
Incidentally, Christian B. had already confessed before Judge Engemann in 2016. At the time, he was accused of sexually abusing the five-year-old daughter of his girlfriend at the time. At the time, the judge explained that she had initially considered whether a suspended sentence was an option. However, as Christian B. was a repeat offender, a prison sentence was the only option. She sentenced him to one year and three months in prison, just above the minimum sentence.
t the end of the trial: acquittal. After these 37 days of proceedings, hardly anyone would have been surprised that the judge had included entire passages of the defence lawyer's closing statement from the previous day verbatim in her reasons for the verdict. The public prosecutor, who had demanded 15 years in prison followed by preventive detention, was stunned.
Forensic psychiatrist Christian Riedemann, who had prepared an expert report on Christian B., had warned before the judgement was announced. Christian B. had a much higher risk of reoffending than any other offender known to him.
The Braunschweig public prosecutor's office has since lodged an appeal against the judgement and announced its intention to appeal to the Federal Court of Justice in Karlsruhe. The question now is whether the case will reach the Federal Supreme Court quickly enough. If not, Christian B. will be a free man in September 2025. JUTTA RABE
https://www.emma.de/sites/default/files/digital/2024/12/emma_2025_01_emagazin_84419_krhgb.pdf
Not to worry if the bias of the judge was as blatant as this article suggests then the appeal will succeed
However it won’t take Wolters an inch closer to linking Brueckner with Madeleine’s disappearance.
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Not to worry if the bias of the judge was as blatant as this article suggests then the appeal will succeed
However it won’t take Wolters an inch closer to linking Brueckner with Madeleine’s disappearance.
If the appeal succeeds (which it probably won’t because life is unfair) it would at least keep Bruckner locked up and give the Germans more time to investigate. And before you say it - yes, I know they’ve been investigating him for years, but it would also restore the credibility of some of the witnesses that could potentially be called upon in a trial concerning Madeleine’s disappearance. This is why all sceptics hope the appeal fails, never mind that this recent trial appears to have made a mockery of justice and of the victims in these cases.
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Not to worry if the bias of the judge was as blatant as this article suggests then the appeal will succeed
However it won’t take Wolters an inch closer to linking Brueckner with Madeleine’s disappearance.
One anticipates notification of the resumption of Bueckner's rape and sexual abuse trial to be announced sometime in March.
Once that is done and dusted the German authorities will no doubt decide any further course of action deemed necessary to legally clear up the cesspit which is this man.
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If the appeal succeeds (which it probably won’t because life is unfair) it would at least keep Bruckner locked up and give the Germans more time to investigate. And before you say it - yes, I know they’ve been investigating him for years, but it would also restore the credibility of some of the witnesses that could potentially be called upon in a trial concerning Madeleine’s disappearance. This is why all sceptics hope the appeal fails, never mind that this recent trial appears to have made a mockery of justice and of the victims in these cases.
I'll be surprised if the Appeal court judges don't allow the appeal.
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You back on the drugs again?
I've been at The General's space pills.
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I've been at The General's space pills.
D'ya mean the ones that help him fly on his broomstick like his Dad ?
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How do sceptics explain the corroborative evidence of the video tapes as supplied by the ex-girlfriend Marina F and his ex partner in crime Christian P? is there a multi person plot to bring Christian B down and did the ex girlfriend go so far as to present a forged note to the court claiming to be from her ex? I presume this can be your only explanation as you’ve all decided that the video tapes never existed haven’t you?
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One anticipates notification of the resumption of Bueckner's rape and sexual abuse trial to be announced sometime in March.
Once that is done and dusted the German authorities will no doubt decide any further course of action deemed necessary to legally clear up the cesspit which is this man.
Then one must live in hope while always keeping in the back of one’s mind the proviso that hope dies hard.
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Then one must live in hope while always keeping in the back of one’s mind the proviso that hope dies hard.
Anyone with an ounce of decency would hope this man is put away for a very long time for the crimes he has so obviously committed, and not use his acquittal to score snarky points on an internet forum just because they think the parents of Madeleine McCann threw her body away in a bin.
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You are in public and seem quite able to accuse them freely in most of the posts you write.
I'm talking about MSM ....seems no one is allowed to discuss anything apart from the so called abduction.
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Just out of curiosity...Is there anyone on here
who would leave their babies in a room, with the door unlocked, a 5 minute walk away in a foreign country.
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If the appeal succeeds (which it probably won’t because life is unfair) it would at least keep Bruckner locked up and give the Germans more time to investigate. And before you say it - yes, I know they’ve been investigating him for years, but it would also restore the credibility of some of the witnesses that could potentially be called upon in a trial concerning Madeleine’s disappearance. This is why all sceptics hope the appeal fails, never mind that this recent trial appears to have made a mockery of justice and of the victims in these cases.
All septics want it to fail.....what right do you have to presume that.
I couldnt care less either way
I think..we have enough going on here ....cover ups grooming gangs ect than worry about a german pedo.
My only interest is ......is HCW ever going to show what evidence he has that CB is the so called abductor of Maddie.
because life is unfair)
Certainly was for Maddie..who was left to all the elements of danger causing - harm or injury to a child
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I'll be surprised if the Appeal court judges don't allow the appeal.
You need to gird the loins, I'm afraid. Feel free to research the German appeal process and the success rate of appeals petitioning against a technical point.
CB will be out in September. Quite how they get him out is another matter.
I suggest you lot chip in for a mini-bus and rock up at the jail to pelt him with Werther's Originals and cat shit.
Edit: Forgot to mention / rub it in, but even if successful the most you could hope for is a retrial - a retrial using the same discredited witnesses becasue there's no new evidence. If there was new evidence they would have petitioned stating as much. They're appealing against a perceived lack of due process. In layman's terms, it's a busted nutsack.
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Anyone with an ounce of decency would hope this man is put away for a very long time for the crimes he has so obviously committed, and not use his acquittal to score snarky points on an internet forum just because they think the parents of Madeleine McCann threw her body away in a bin.
So anyone who has a contrary opinion to you lacks decency. Rude.
And who mentioned bin? It was a [insert potential hiding place here], not a bin.
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Just out of curiosity...Is there anyone on here
who would leave their babies in a room, with the door unlocked, a 5 minute walk away in a foreign country.
My parents did, much worse too.
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All septics want it to fail.....what right do you have to presume that.
I couldnt care less either way
I think..we have enough going on here ....cover ups grooming gangs ect than worry about a german pedo.
My only interest is ......is HCW ever going to show what evidence he has that CB is the so called abductor of Maddie.
because life is unfair)
Certainly was for Maddie..who was left to all the elements of danger causing - harm or injury to a child
Because I haven’t seen one single sceptic criticise the acquittal, not one miligram of angst or outrage that this rapist and child molester will soon be free to walk the streets again thanks to the (imo) bonkers ruling of this German judge. Why is Madeleine the only child whose fate you care about? What about Bruckner’s victims past and the ones that are likely to be in the future? Your callous disregard for them is quite chilling and obviously driven imo by an overriding desire to let CB off the hook so that attention can return with a vengeance to parent bashing.
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You need to gird the loins, I'm afraid. Feel free to research the German appeal process and the success rate of appeals petitioning against a technical point.
CB will be out in September. Quite how they get him out is another matter.
I suggest you lot chip in for a mini-bus and rock up at the jail to pelt him with Werther's Originals and cat shit.
Edit: Forgot to mention / rub it in, but even if successful the most you could hope for is a retrial - a retrial using the same discredited witnesses becasue there's no new evidence. If there was new evidence they would have petitioned stating as much. They're appealing against a perceived lack of due process. In layman's terms, it's a busted nutsack.
Evidence discredited by who?
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So anyone who has a contrary opinion to you lacks decency. Rude.
And who mentioned bin? It was a [insert potential hiding place here], not a bin.
No, anyone who wants a rapist and paedo to walk free just to win some points on the internet when the likelihood is he committed all the crimes he was recently acquitted of lacks common decency imo. Do you seriously think Bruckner did not rape HB and did not molest a child on the beach and did not wank in front of others? Are you utterly convinced of his innocence in all these cases?
As for who mentioned bin - both Faithlilly and Spam are convinced that Smithman traipsed all the way through the centre of PdL looking for a bin to put the body in and the reason why the body has never been found is because it is festering under a thousand tons of Portuguese garbage, presumably mainly sardine bones and empty wine bottles.
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I will publish my interim findings at 09.00am (GMT) on Tuesday 4 February.
Feel free to exhale.
You’re late.
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Because I haven’t seen one single sceptic criticise the acquittal, not one miligram of angst or outrage that this rapist and child molester will soon be free to walk the streets again thanks to the (imo) bonkers ruling of this German judge. Why is Madeleine the only child whose fate you care about? What about Bruckner’s victims past and the ones that are likely to be in the future? Your callous disregard for them is quite chilling and obviously driven imo by an overriding desire to let CB off the hook so that attention can return with a vengeance to parent bashing.
Why is Madeleine the only child whose fate you care about? What about Bruckner’s victims past and the ones that are likely
Why...have you forgot already.... to even ask me that
Because this is the Maddie forum.........try looking on the main page.
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found.
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Why is Madeleine the only child whose fate you care about? What about Bruckner’s victims past and the ones that are likely
Why...have you forgot already.... to even ask me that
Because this is the Maddie forum.........try looking on the main page.
Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found.
LOL, Maddie is the only child whose fate you care about because this is a Maddie forum. Right you are dear. Just because you are posting on a Maddie forum doesn't mean you have to stop being concerned about other children being abused or harmed does it? I will have to check the forum t&c's.
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You’re late.
Can't remember what the question was now.
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Can't remember what the question was now.
You were going to prove to us all of how clever you are. And now you can't remember how. That's not very clever, is it.
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D'ya mean the ones that help him fly on his broomstick like his Dad ?
Now listen here, you bloody well leave my father out of this. You're well aware of his failing health and the last thing he needs is all that old muck being raked up again, particularly all that nonsense in Tripoli that you're obviously referring to.
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You were going to prove to us all of how clever you are. And now you can't remember how. That's not very clever, is it.
That was it, thanks.
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LOL, Maddie is the only child whose fate you care about because this is a Maddie forum. Right you are dear. Just because you are posting on a Maddie forum doesn't mean you have to stop being concerned about other children being abused or harmed does it? I will have to check the forum t&c's.
Just because you are posting on a Maddie forum doesn't mean you have to stop being concerned about other children
I come on here regarding ....what happened to Maddie
Not to use CB ...and his victims for poster bashing ...as your posts seem to do.
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Can't remember what the question was now.
Oh well never mind, perhaps you can have a go at my question at reply #1262 instead then.
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Just because you are posting on a Maddie forum doesn't mean you have to stop being concerned about other children
I come on here regarding ....what happened to Maddie
Not to use CB ...and his victims for poster bashing ...as your posts seem to do.
What happened to Madeleine is linked to CB, of that I am pretty certain. I know you don't want to even entertain the idea but there is a very strong likelihood IMO that the man who took and murdered her is going to walk out of prison a free man in September. But you don't care about that, you've made it very clear. So, what happened to Maddie then, in your view? I don't think I'm familiar with your plausible and logical theory. Please free to describe it now.
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What happened to Madeleine is linked to CB, of that I am pretty certain. I know you don't want to even entertain the idea but there is a very strong likelihood IMO that the man who took and murdered her is going to walk out of prison a free man in September. But you don't care about that, you've made it very clear. So, what happened to Maddie then, in your view? I don't think I'm familiar with your plausible and logical theory. Please free to describe it now.
Can anyone really be arsed scrolling back that far? I can't. I can barely muster the energy to brush cheeto dust off my house coat right now.
Is this the video thing? What's on them, Smokey and the Bandit 2?
......ughh, just waiting for A Place in the Sun to start.
Might be worth ignoring my input here, I'm an indolent liability.
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Can anyone really be arsed scrolling back that far? I can't. I can barely muster the energy to brush cheeto dust off my house coat right now.
Is this the video thing? What's on them, Smokey and the Bandit 2?
......ughh, just waiting for A Place in the Sun to start.
Might be worth ignoring my input here, I'm an indolent liability.
@)(++(* Oh dear The General, it's unlike you to be shirking an opportunity to show me how stupid my questions are and put me back in my box. Oh well. Enjoy A Place In The Sun (is it in PdL this episode?)
PS: I think you quoted the wrong post.
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@)(++(* Oh dear The General, it's unlike you to be shirking an opportunity to show me how stupid my questions are and put me back in my box. Oh well. Enjoy A Place In The Sun (is it in PdL this episode?)
PS: I think you quoted the wrong post.
I've been looking for a thread to resurrect, but it's like wading through cow shit.
There's nothing left to argue about, except arguing about arguing. :]
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I've been looking for a thread to resurrect, but it's like wading through cow shit.
There's nothing left to argue about, except arguing about arguing. :]
That’s rude. This forum has been some people’s life’s work and proudest achievement. All that valuable research into the McCanns’ body language and the forensic examination of the Files, with every umm and err revealing so much information about who dunnit and why, not to mention the debate about how much noise flip flops make when worn on an early May evening and what is the correct way to hold a three year old child when carrying her to the nearest bin. Such a wealth of important analysis and you call it cow shit? How very could you!
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Anyway, would one of you mods please authorise my new topic post which might (or might not) spark some interesting debate on a completely unrelated case.
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Now listen here, you bloody well leave my father out of this. You're well aware of his failing health and the last thing he needs is all that old muck being raked up again, particularly all that nonsense in Tripoli that you're obviously referring to.
I didn't know that his health was failing. I am sorry to hear that and hope he will soon be better.
What old muck being raked up are you on about? I seem to have missed stuff here. Was it when I was in the nursing home for four months
And Tripoli .... completely new to me! Can you, or someone else, fill me in please.
I thought that he was a champion at Quidditch and that's played on broomsticks innit?
Get well soon Myster.
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I didn't know that his health was failing. I am sorry to hear that and hope he will soon be better.
What old muck being raked up are you on about? I seem to have missed stuff here. Was it when I was in the nursing home for four months
And Tripoli .... completely new to me! Can you, or someone else, fill me in please.
I thought that he was a champion at Quidditch and that's played on broomsticks innit?
Get well soon Myster.
ffs Sadie, I'm not sure where to start. Quidditch isn't a real game and broomsticks can't really fly. The game appears in a book, written by JR Hartley, about a boy wizard called Harry. Although wizards are real, none of them possess mystical powers up to and including levitation.
I'm not really a General (just like I'm not a real welder, to make reference to the punchline of the classic joke), and Myster isn't my dad as far as I am aware. I don't know Myster, we've never conversed, never met, although he / she has my respect as a top contributor to the forum.
I'm just a knobhead from Liverpool and certainly not from wherever it was you said I hailed from.
I have been to Tripoli, which actually is a tale worth telling, but I doubt Myster has - he / she / they might have - but we certainly weren't there together. Myster also appears to be in rude health, given their quality of output here, so I don't think there's any cause to fret.
The icon image I used which contained the word 'KNEEL' was in fact a picture of the comic book supervillain, General Zod, played by the Oscar nominated Terence Stamp in the motion picture Superman (1978). It had no significance other than he was a General, just like Russell Crowe is General Maximus. I thought about using General De Gaull, be he's French, or General Rommel or Goering, but they're nazi German c*&^s.
I have to admit that I've been playing along, but that's just making things worse. I'm going to nip off again soon on another sabbatical, so I thought I'd come clean.
If these revelations come as a shock maybe it's time to take stock of what you believe to be true.
Best Regards,
The General (not a real General).
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Anyway, would one of you mods please authorise my new topic post which might (or might not) spark some interesting debate on a completely unrelated case.
This had better be good, there's a lot at stake.
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This had better be good, there's a lot at stake.
By the time my thread gets authorised she’ll be back on the streets free to murder more babies (a subtle clue, and no I’m not convinced her conviction was safe before you start).
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By the time my thread gets authorised she’ll be back on the streets free to murder more babies (a subtle clue, and no I’m not convinced her conviction was safe before you start).
We may as well kick it off - I think she did it, it's pretty obvious, the notes, the times and days, the witnesses - but the trial has left a gaping hole for her to crawl through unfortunately - all my uninformed opinion.
Deffo worth a thread of its own.
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We may as well kick it off - I think she did it, it's pretty obvious, the notes, the times and days, the witnesses - but the trial has left a gaping hole for her to crawl through unfortunately - all my uninformed opinion.
Deffo worth a thread of its own.
Definitely. I was convinced she was guilty too, but having engaged with some absolutely passionate supporters of hers online I could see they had a point about alot of the evidence presented against her at trial. This has been further reinforced by the press conference yesterday. I do now think there is reasonable doubt but it’s hard to look at pictures of her without thinking “evil baby murderer”.
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Definitely. I was convinced she was guilty too, but having engaged with some absolutely passionate supporters of hers online I could see they had a point about alot of the evidence presented against her at trial. This has been further reinforced by the press conference yesterday. I do now think there is reasonable doubt but it’s hard to look at pictures of her without thinking “evil baby murderer”.
I suppose this is the ethical dillema; the rule of law being applied fairly and robustly set against an almost certainly guilty defendant. You can support the unsafe conviction without supporting the accused.
That's what makes our justice system the envy of the civilised world, everybody says it, the best...... YEEEEHAAAAA, let's move all thos arabs and build the Gaza Riviera.....WOOOOooOOo.....
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Definitely. I was convinced she was guilty too, but having engaged with some absolutely passionate supporters of hers online I could see they had a point about alot of the evidence presented against her at trial. This has been further reinforced by the press conference yesterday. I do now think there is reasonable doubt but it’s hard to look at pictures of her without thinking “evil baby murderer”.
Where is it? I can't find it.
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Where is it? I can't find it.
I posted it in the Stories In The News sub forum.
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I suppose this is the ethical dillema; the rule of law being applied fairly and robustly set against an almost certainly guilty defendant. You can support the unsafe conviction without supporting the accused.
That's what makes our justice system the envy of the civilised world, everybody says it, the best...... YEEEEHAAAAA, let's move all thos arabs and build the Gaza Riviera.....WOOOOooOOo.....
Let’s see how that pans out.
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We may as well kick it off - I think she did it, it's pretty obvious, the notes, the times and days, the witnesses - but the trial has left a gaping hole for her to crawl through unfortunately - all my uninformed opinion.
Deffo worth a thread of its own.
Please take this comment to the right Thread/. It has been approved.
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How do sceptics explain the corroborative evidence of the video tapes as supplied by the ex-girlfriend Marina F and his ex partner in crime Christian P? is there a multi person plot to bring Christian B down and did the ex girlfriend go so far as to present a forged note to the court claiming to be from her ex? I presume this can be your only explanation as you’ve all decided that the video tapes never existed haven’t you?
your only explanation as you’ve all decided that the video tapes never existed haven’t you?
Have you proof then that they do exist...or any of it can even be classed as corroborative evidence.
Well it seems a lot of the HCW evidence ...now seems could be a bluff which I think most of us knew.
Even HCW isn't a prosecutor. He is a spokesman.
We have learned nothing ....no further on than 3/6/2007.
IMO the only way this will be solved is if fresh eyes go back to the very begining.
Martin Brunt ......we are no further on........its still a mystery..
Well it is to some ....but not to me it isnt [a mystery]
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your only explanation as you’ve all decided that the video tapes never existed haven’t you?
Have you proof then that they do exist...or any of it can even be classed as corroborative evidence.
Well it seems a lot of the HCW evidence ...now seems could be a bluff which I think most of us knew.
Even HCW isn't a prosecutor. He is a spokesman.
We have learned nothing ....no further on than 3/6/2007.
IMO the only way this will be solved is if fresh eyes go back to the very begining.
Martin Brunt ......we are no further on........its still a mystery..
Well it is to some ....but not to me it isnt [a mystery]
Can't be that corroborative if HCW hasn't produced them.
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Can't be that corroborative if HCW hasn't produced them.
The corroborative evidence of the existence of the video tapes was presented in court. Please re-read the post of mine that Kizzy quoted but then ignored the substance of.
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your only explanation as you’ve all decided that the video tapes never existed haven’t you?
Have you proof then that they do exist...or any of it can even be classed as corroborative evidence.
Well it seems a lot of the HCW evidence ...now seems could be a bluff which I think most of us knew.
Even HCW isn't a prosecutor. He is a spokesman.
We have learned nothing ....no further on than 3/6/2007.
IMO the only way this will be solved is if fresh eyes go back to the very begining.
Martin Brunt ......we are no further on........its still a mystery..
Well it is to some ....but not to me it isnt [a mystery]
As you’re not interested in the recent court case against CB I presume you didn’t bother reading the article I posted by Jutta Raabe on a preceding page of this thread? Or perhaps you did and just didn’t understand it, or thought it was McCann sponsored propaganda or something sinister concocted by the MSM?
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The corroborative evidence of the existence of the video tapes was presented in court. Please re-read the post of mine that Kizzy quoted but then ignored the substance of.
The corroborative evidence of the existence of the video tapes was presented in court.
Do you mean this
Although the videos have disappeared, the two witnesses testified that they recognised Christian B. as the perpetrator on the videos.
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The corroborative evidence of the existence of the video tapes was presented in court.
Do you mean this
Although the videos have disappeared, the two witnesses testified that they recognised Christian B. as the perpetrator on the videos.
no.
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As you’re not interested in the recent court case against CB I presume you didn’t bother reading the article I posted by Jutta Raabe on a preceding page of this thread? Or perhaps you did and just didn’t understand it, or thought it was McCann sponsored propaganda or something sinister concocted by the MSM?
Was there anything in it regarding evidence CB abducted Maddie.
I saw just the usual connection ...and seems the only connection.
CB named as the Maddie suspect.....words alone that mean nothing
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no.
So what was your point then.
The link you left was total double Dutch..or should I say German
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So what was your point then.
The link you left was total double Dutch..or should I say German
As I suspected, it went over your head. Never mind, I don’t think I can help you with your comprehension skills any further.
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As I suspected, it went over your head. Never mind, I don’t think I can help you with your comprehension skills any further.
What a cop out post....so we are no further than when I asked this
your quote
your only explanation as you’ve all decided that the video tapes never existed haven’t you?
Have you proof then that they do exist...or any of it can even be classed as corroborative evidence.
Well it seems a lot of the HCW evidence ...now seems could be a bluff which I think most of us knew.
Even HCW isn't a prosecutor. He is a spokesman.
We have learned nothing ....no further on than 3/6/2007.
IMO the only way this will be solved is if fresh eyes go back to the very begining.
Martin Brunt ......we are no further on........its still a mystery..
Well it is to some ....but not to me it isnt [a mystery]
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What a cop out post....so we are no further than when I asked this
your quote
your only explanation as you’ve all decided that the video tapes never existed haven’t you?
Have you proof then that they do exist...or any of it can even be classed as corroborative evidence.
Well it seems a lot of the HCW evidence ...now seems could be a bluff which I think most of us knew.
Even HCW isn't a prosecutor. He is a spokesman.
We have learned nothing ....no further on than 3/6/2007.
IMO the only way this will be solved is if fresh eyes go back to the very begining.
Martin Brunt ......we are no further on........its still a mystery..
Well it is to some ....but not to me it isnt [a mystery]
Jeez, I even spelt it out for you in the post of mine you chose to reply to. You can lead a horse to water and all that. I doubt I could make you understand the point even if I wrote it out again in words of one syllable.
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Jeez, I even spelt it out for you in the post of mine you chose to reply to. You can lead a horse to water and all that. I doubt I could make you understand the point even if I wrote it out again in words on one syllable.
So in other words you cannot prove the video's exist.
Why didn't you just say that in the first place.
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So in other words you cannot prove the video's exist.
Why didn't you just say that in the first place.
Please stop trolling and learn to read and comprehend.
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ffs Sadie, I'm not sure where to start. Quidditch isn't a real game and broomsticks can't really fly. The game appears in a book, written by JR Hartley, about a boy wizard called Harry. Although wizards are real, none of them possess mystical powers up to and including levitation.
I'm not really a General (just like I'm not a real welder, to make reference to the punchline of the classic joke), and Myster isn't my dad as far as I am aware. I don't know Myster, we've never conversed, never met, although he / she has my respect as a top contributor to the forum.
I'm just a knobhead from Liverpool and certainly not from wherever it was you said I hailed from.
I have been to Tripoli, which actually is a tale worth telling, but I doubt Myster has - he / she / they might have - but we certainly weren't there together. Myster also appears to be in rude health, given their quality of output here, so I don't think there's any cause to fret.
The icon image I used which contained the word 'KNEEL' was in fact a picture of the comic book supervillain, General Zod, played by the Oscar nominated Terence Stamp in the motion picture Superman (1978). It had no significance other than he was a General, just like Russell Crowe is General Maximus. I thought about using General De Gaull, be he's French, or General Rommel or Goering, but they're nazi German c*&^s.
I have to admit that I've been playing along, but that's just making things worse. I'm going to nip off again soon on another sabbatical, so I thought I'd come clean.
If these revelations come as a shock maybe it's time to take stock of what you believe to be true.
Best Regards,
The General (not a real General).
The book, Harry Potter, was written by JK Rowling,
Married name ?Hartley?.
Hartley NO, married name Murray . She married Dr Neil Murray over 20 years and together they have 2 children.
www.hellomagazine.com/film/516643/inside-jk-rowlings-23-year-marriage-he-keeps-out-of-the-spotlight/
NOT Hartley. The REAL man that Harry Potter is based on comes from the Hart and the Ley family, as you do too. Strangely, seems I come from the Ley family too.
Did you really think that Quidditch was an actual game? I never did, but fun wasn't it.
The Templars, in the 1300's and being threatened with death by the King of France and the Pope, were in dire trouble. They saved themselves by vanishing and then reinvented themselves as Knights of Malta/ Colombus/ etc. I think most thinking people accept this now.
Wizards and witches were rife in the 1600's, and near the end of the century were been executed by burning and drowning. A death penalty was put on them because of the extreme supernatural harm they were doing to their enemies. I believe that death penalty has been lifted, now. The Wizards, likewise upon the the threat of execution, vanished and reappeared as Priests.
We are generally assured that there are no wizards now, but if that is the case, why did they go to the bother of lifting the Death Penalty? I wonder who pushed that Bill through? (in my lifetime)
Yes, I think you are right. They are few and far between, but there are well hidden Wizards around again. How many do you know?
BTW Myster is your Dad. You have both talked about your relationship several times on here
You are not from Liverpool. I don't think that I have ever said where you hail from. Probably several countries, you are well travelled like your Dad
You are not a knobhead but a privately educated University graduate which shines through your posts. Your Dad is probably a genius and you are exceptionaly clever. I hope that you have forgiven your Dad. I do hope that he is feeling better. I don't think he can help himself.
I hope that you are on a more even keel now. Enjoy your holiday
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The book, Harry Potter, was written by JK Rowling,
Married name ?Hartley?.
Hartley NO, married name Murray . She married Dr Neil Murray over 20 years and together they have 2 children.
www.hellomagazine.com/film/516643/inside-jk-rowlings-23-year-marriage-he-keeps-out-of-the-spotlight/
NOT Hartley. The REAL man that Harry Potter is based on comes from the Hart and the Ley family, as you do too. Strangely, seems I come from the Ley family too.
Did you really think that Quidditch was an actual game? I never did, but fun wasn't it.
The Templars, in the 1300's and being threatened with death by the King of France and the Pope, were in dire trouble. They saved themselves by vanishing and then reinvented themselves as Knights of Malta/ Colombus/ etc. I think most thinking people accept this now.
Wizards and witches were rife in the 1600's, and near the end of the century were been executed by burning and drowning. A death penalty was put on them because of the extreme supernatural harm they were doing to their enemies. I believe that death penalty has been lifted, now. The Wizards, likewise upon the the threat of execution, vanished and reappeared as Priests.
We are generally assured that there are no wizards now, but if that is the case, why did they go to the bother of lifting the Death Penalty? I wonder who pushed that Bill through? (in my lifetime)
Yes, I think you are right. They are few and far between, but there are well hidden Wizards around again. How many do you know?
BTW Myster is your Dad. You have both talked about your relationship several times on here
You are not from Liverpool. I don't think that I have ever said where you hail from. Probably several countries, you are well travelled like your Dad
You are not a knobhead but a privately educated University graduate which shines through your posts. Your Dad is probably a genius and you are exceptionaly clever. I hope that you have forgiven your Dad. I do hope that he is feeling better. I don't think he can help himself.
I hope that you are on a more even keel now. Enjoy your holiday
hells bells.
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hells bells.
Won’t stop someone liking the post!
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Won’t stop someone liking the post!
I'm thinking of PM'ing Myster, maybe meet up and have a chat about our hitherto unknown familial connection.
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Please stop trolling and learn to read and comprehend.
Aww, sorry if I have upset you.
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Filthy-rich Jo Rowling has another pot-boiler in the offing, inspired by countless posts by a certain someone on this very forum...
"Potty Sadie Potter and The Incredulous Tale of a Royal Blood Princess and her Astonishing Abduction for Preposterous Procreation Purposes".
I know nothing about The remarkably voluble Gen, Sadie, other than he's a dead ringer for Russell Crowe.
As for me, I'm just a lowly, uneducated primate with a fondness for citrus... https://streamable.com/3rrrdj
and a penchant for pretty Asian gals... https://streamable.com/xbr484
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Filthy-rich Jo Rowling has another pot-boiler in the offing, inspired by countless posts by a certain someone on this very forum...
"Potty Sadie Potter and The Incredulous Tale of a Royal Blood Princess and her Astonishing Abduction for Preposterous Procreation Purposes".
I know nothing about The remarkably voluble Gen, Sadie, other than he's a dead ringer for Russell Crowe.
As for me, I'm just a lowly, uneducated primate with a fondness for citrus... https://streamable.com/3rrrdj
and a penchant for pretty Asian gals... https://streamable.com/xbr484
Too late. Enough people on here have read your words connecting you to The General and his connecting him to you.
You and The Gen are father and son unless you have both been telling lies.
Mmmm, Jo Rowling wasn't so wealthy when you drove her off, was she?
Anyway, you gave her the inspiration for a cracking set of books, so well done you. And, of course, your story, albeit much fanticized, is there for posterity ... if readers are able to unravel it. It is quite revealing.
Expensive Catholic Ampleforth College, which places itself as the equivalent of Protestant Eton, and Oxford were your Alma Maters and you did rather well reading Math IIRC. Cardinal Basil Hume (Albus in the HP books) was you guiding light so you were neither lowly nor an uneducated primate. Dunno about your fondness for citrus.
Yep, The Gen is rather handsome and you're not bad either 8(0(*
I hope that you are feeling better.
sadie
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Never been anywhere near Ampleforth in my life! Not from a Catholic family either! In fact I've only now just looked it up and wish I'd had the opportunity and good fortune to be educated there...
https://www.ampleforthcollege.org.uk/ (https://www.ampleforthcollege.org.uk/)
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Not sure why my previous post was removed - but would like to know the reason...anyone.
CAN MODERN TECHNOLOGY Reopen the MADELEINE MCCANN CASE? | TRUE CRIME
Wonder if this will ever be used...maybe the mccs could request it....or SY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAX0HSzeCPo
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Not sure why my previous post was removed - but would like to know the reason...anyone.
CAN MODERN TECHNOLOGY Reopen the MADELEINE MCCANN CASE? | TRUE CRIME
Wonder if this will ever be used...maybe the mccs could request it....or SY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAX0HSzeCPo
That was incredibly creepy and uninformative. Well the first 5 minutes were before I stopped watching. Let me guess - the videomaker thinks AI will help prove the McCanns dunnit, am I right or am I right?
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That was incredibly creepy and uninformative. Well the first 5 minutes were before I stoppeded watching. Let me guess - the videomaker thinks AI will help prove the McCanns dunnit, am I right or am I right?
Well, could be you were right both times - if you think the mccs dunnit.
I thought more if the mccs wasn't involved it could maybe show who was responsible...its more 50/50
You should have watched it all...at least if it was used it would start from the begining 3/05/07
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Well, could be you were right both times - if you think the mccs dunnit.
I thought more if the mccs wasn't involved it could maybe show who was responsible...its more 50/50
You should have watched it all...at least if it was used it would start from the begining 3/05/07
As I don’t think the McCanns dunnit I doubt putting their statements through some AI programme will help at all. Perhaps the Germans could use it to help nail Bruckner though. That would be good.
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Not sure why my previous post was removed - but would like to know the reason...anyone.
CAN MODERN TECHNOLOGY Reopen the MADELEINE MCCANN CASE? | TRUE CRIME
Wonder if this will ever be used...maybe the mccs could request it....or SY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAX0HSzeCPo
I very nearly removed your Comment but decided not to. Libel would have been my reason. Please don't do this again.
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I very nearly removed your Comment but decided not to. Libel would have been my reason. Please don't do this again.
Ok, thank you for your reply
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As I don’t think the McCanns dunnit I doubt putting their statements through some AI programme will help at all. Perhaps the Germans could use it to help nail Bruckner though. That would be good.
Well it looked to me like a free for all......although it did seem to throw others in the mix.
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Sceptics in general do not have a single independent thought in their heads. The narrative has to emanate from the sick mind of the latest conspiracy theorist in vogue to do what passes for their thinking for them.
To a man/woman they abhorred every penny spent on finding Madelaine McCann but think nothing of their current source of slurs making capital out of a missing child.
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Not sure why my previous post was removed - but would like to know the reason...anyone.
CAN MODERN TECHNOLOGY Reopen the MADELEINE MCCANN CASE? | TRUE CRIME
Wonder if this will ever be used...maybe the mccs could request it....or SY
youtube
One has absolutely no idea who the latest cretin pontificating about Madelene McCann might be.
But he's not too bright is he.
Madeleine Mcann's case
DOES NOT NEED TO BE RE-OPENED ... BRITAIN OPENED IT and PORTUGAL RE-OPENED IT IN 2013
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Sceptics in general do not have a single independent thought in their heads. The narrative has to emanate from the sick mind of the latest conspiracy theorist in vogue to do what passes for their thinking for them.
To a ma, exceptn/woman they abhorred every penny spent on finding Madelaine McCann but think nothing of their current source of slurs making capital out of a missing child.
It never was anything to do with making money, except for Amaral who was already heavily in debt from cheating his brother and not paying common taxes, long before Madeleine went missing. Amaral was convicted of Fraud in 2002. The rest of what happened remains beyond me.
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One has absolutely no idea who the latest cretin pontificating about Madelene McCann might be.
But he's not too bright is he.
Madeleine Mcann's case
DOES NOT NEED TO BE RE-OPENED ... BRITAIN OPENED IT and PORTUGAL RE-OPENED IT IN 2013
Ah, but that’s not proper re-opening is it? What he means is make the McCanns the subject of the investigation and brush aside any mention of German paedos or any of the inconvenient stuff that is the subject of the official investigation. That’s basically what all sceptics yearn for and will continue mithering for until their dying breaths, sad plums.
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Ah, but that’s not proper re-opening is it? What he means is make the McCanns the subject of the investigation and brush aside any mention of German paedos or any of the inconvenient stuff that is the subject of the official investigation. That’s basically what all sceptics yearn for and will continue mithering for until their dying breaths, sad plums.
This isn't ever going to happen. The McCann's involvement was just the product of Amaral"s diseased mind; There. has never been an iota of proof.
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Ah, but that’s not proper re-opening is it? What he means is make the McCanns the subject of the investigation and brush aside any mention of German paedos or any of the inconvenient stuff that is the subject of the official investigation. That’s basically what all sceptics yearn for and will continue mithering for until their dying breaths, sad plums.
You’ve got it in one regarding the limitations of sceptics.
They really don’t have a clue how anything works, particularly a police investigation.
How limited does one have to be before working out that a sexual predator is a credible suspect in a missing child investigation.
Particularly one with a predilection for little girls.
Particularly as he has been the only suspect and one who has not been ruled out of the investigation at any juncture.
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This isn't ever going to happen. The McCann's involvement was just the product of Amaral"s diseased mind; There. has never been an iota of proof.
Was it the proof or the will that was lacking?
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Was it the proof or the will that was lacking?
The proof is certainly lacking, as was the will to actually investigate the case thoroughly. Not sure what point you’re trying to make but if there was any proof of parental involvement then they would have been arrested and tried.
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The proof is certainly lacking, as was the will to actually investigate the case thoroughly. Not sure what point you’re trying to make but if there was any proof of parental involvement then they would have been arrested and tried.
Especially in Portugal.
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The proof is certainly lacking, as was the will to actually investigate the case thoroughly. Not sure what point you’re trying to make but if there was any proof of parental involvement then they would have been arrested and tried.
Criminal cop Amaral and his criminal cohort did his level best to set at least two innocent people up without there being a shred of evidence against them.
Worked in Joanna's case where it was tried and tested.
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Especially in Portugal.
Not to mention the way in which a corrupt cop stuck his oar into the German criminal investigation in a wrecking ball endeavour which was nothing but a pack of lies from start to finish.
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The proof is certainly lacking, as was the will to actually investigate the case thoroughly. Not sure what point you’re trying to make but if there was any proof of parental involvement then they would have been arrested and tried.
Not if the investigation was as incompetent as has been suggested. If the evidence wasn’t gathered appropriately at the time then who knows what was missed that might suggest the parent’s involvement.
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Not to mention the way in which a corrupt cop stuck his oar into the German criminal investigation in a wrecking ball endeavour which was nothing but a pack of lies from start to finish.
That was so stupid it was almost unbelievable that Amaral could try such idiocy.
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One has absolutely no idea who the latest cretin pontificating about Madelene McCann might be.
But he's not too bright is he.
Madeleine Mcann's case
DOES NOT NEED TO BE RE-OPENED ... BRITAIN OPENED IT and PORTUGAL RE-OPENED IT IN 2013
One has absolutely no idea who the latest cretin pontificating about Madelene McCann might be.
Not very nice words really....considering that is what we all do on here including you ..give our opinions
None of us have any real proof of what happened ....including you -
pontificate. is what your post has just done...by thinking you have the right to call them cretins
Madeleine Mcann's case
DOES NOT NEED TO BE RE-OPENED ... BRITAIN OPENED IT and PORTUGAL RE-OPENED IT IN 2013
and then did this.
A detective tipped to head up the Madeleine McCann probe was warned he would be ordered to prove she was abducted and ignore other leads.
Colin Sutton said a high-ranking friend in the Met called him and warned him not to lead the case when Scotland Yard announced it would get involved in 2010.
The source warned that he would be tasked with proving her parents Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignoring any alternatives to the abduction theory, he claims.
It hasnt done any good has it apart from costing millions .and still no further on.
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Not if the investigation was as incompetent as has been suggested. If the evidence wasn’t gathered appropriately at 5he time then who knows what was missed.
Exactly.
Especially when crime scene was destroyed when mcc let 20+ in apartment.
refusing to answer questions...one answers questions the other doesn't -
The discrepancies in statements.... to name but a few.
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Not if the investigation was as incompetent as has been suggested. If the evidence wasn’t gathered appropriately at the time then who knows what was missed that might suggest the parent’s involvement.
You could say that about literally any investigation in which suspects are questioned and then released without further charge. Anyway, are you suggesting the investigation was incompetent because that may very well explain why Christian Brückner wasn’t apprehended and questioned sooner, no?
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Exactly.
Especially when crime scene was destroyed when mcc let 20+ in apartment.
refusing to answer questions...one answers questions the other doesn't -
The discrepancies in statements.... to name but a few.
Don’t forget the smiling outside the church when the balloons were released and the photo of Maddie wearing lipstick.
Question: if Gerry McCann had found Madeleine dead in the apartment after falling off the sofa or balcony and carried her body through town afterwards what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
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You could say that about literally any investigation in which suspects are questioned and then released without further charge. Anyway, are you suggesting the investigation was incompetent because that may very well explain why Christian Brückner wasn’t apprehended and questioned sooner, no?
It is just as feasible.
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Never been anywhere near Ampleforth in my life! Not from a Catholic family either! In fact I've only now just looked it up and wish I'd had the opportunity and good fortune to be educated there...
https://www.ampleforthcollege.org.uk/ (https://www.ampleforthcollege.org.uk/)
Fabulous place isn't it? Do they still do the Hare Coursing? Do they use fox hounds or beagles?
And even better now since it is co-educational. Too many peadophile monks there before ... and some lay people too.
Your Dad went there too, you were both very lucky. He was a friend and contemporary, IIRC of Basil Hume, so no wonder Headmaster/ Abbott/ Cardinal Basil took a special interest in you.
As for not being Catholic, how come you chose an Italian Catholic Priest/Monk as your avatar? Members may remember your avatar of a ?medieval? Priest against a round window. At the time you said that he was the man you most aspired to be like. When I produced a source for the avatar photograph, strangely it immediately disappeared off the internet and there appears to be no trace of this man any more.
I wonder why?
I hope that you are improving. The Gen seemed very worried for you.
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Don’t forget the smiling outside the church when the balloons were released and the photo of Maddie wearing lipstick.
Question: if Gerry McCann had found Madeleine dead in the apartment after falling off the sofa or balcony and carried her body through town afterwards what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
Why didn't the Police cordon it off? Why did the Police take so long to respond; they were called much earlier. It is on record. Why did Amaral leave and go home without visiting the flat? According to reports, he never visited it, whilst the Mccanns were there.
Am I correct in remembering that he personally never even met Kate or Gerry? If I have misremembered, please correct me. I do not want incorrect information left standing.
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Why didn't the Police cordon it off? Why did the Police take so long to respond; they were called much earlier. It is on record. Why did Amaral leave and go home without visiting the flat? According to reports, he never visited it, whilst the Mccanns were there.
Am I correct in remembering that he personally never even met Kate or Gerry? If I have misremembered, please correct me. I do not want incorrect information left standing.
WHY HAS A BIG PORTION OF MY POST ABOVE BEEN WIPED ? Is someone frightened of the truth?
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Fabulous place isn't it? Do they still do the Hare Coursing? Do they use fox hounds or beagles?
And even better now since it is co-educational. Too many peadophile monks there before ... and some lay people too.
Your Dad went there too, you were both very lucky. He was a friend and contemporary, IIRC of Basil Hume, so no wonder Headmaster/ Abbott/ Cardinal Basil took a special interest in you.
As for not being Catholic, how come you chose an Italian Catholic Priest/Monk as your avatar? Members may remember your avatar of a ?medieval? Priest against a round window. At the time you said that he was the man you most aspired to be like. When I produced a source for the avatar photograph, strangely it immediately disappeared off the internet and there appears to be no trace of this man any more.
I wonder why?
I hope that you are improving. The Gen seemed very worried for you.
Yaaaawwwwn... so tiresome. 8(8-))
William of Ockham was an English Franciscan, not a Catholic dogmatist...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham)
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Sceptics in general do not have a single independent thought in their heads. The narrative has to emanate from the sick mind of the latest conspiracy theorist in vogue to do what passes for their thinking for them.
To a man/woman they abhorred every penny spent on finding Madelaine McCann but think nothing of their current source of slurs making capital out of a missing child.
I can smell your anger. Chill out, babe, there's no harm any more.
Brenda's dead now. It's over.
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Don’t forget the smiling outside the church when the balloons were released and the photo of Maddie wearing lipstick.
Question: if Gerry McCann had found Madeleine dead in the apartment after falling off the sofa or balcony and carried her body through town afterwards what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
well we will never know what was destroyed .....will we.
The thing is kmcc "knew" that Maddie had been taken straight away.
She thoughroly searched the apartment [10mins] yet the mccs let everyone in ......why
Pre-Secured Scenes
The potential for evidence (or crime scene) contamination increases as the number of people entering a crime scene also increases. Once a scene has been secured, the risk of contamination is greatly reduced. However, what about the events which occurred before the scene was secured? How many people entered and left the scene without being recorded as being there?
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what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
well we will never know what was destroyed .....will we.
The thing is kmcc "knew" that Maddie had been taken straight away.
She thoughroly searched the apartment [10mins] yet the mccs let everyone in ......why
Pre-Secured Scenes
The potential for evidence (or crime scene) contamination increases as the number of people entering a crime scene also increases. Once a scene has been secured, the risk of contamination is greatly reduced. However, what about the events which occurred before the scene was secured? How many people entered and left the scene without being recorded as being there?
What about the police and their dogs? Leaving fag ash and hairs?
So if Kate said in her distressed state no one enter the apartment. What would have been said about that. What is Kate hiding probably.
When you have found your child missing you are hardly in any state to think about destroying evidence. Amaral hadn't lost a child though and he allowed the bedding to be taken away to be washed!!
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What about the police and their dogs? Leaving fag ash and hairs?
So if Kate said in her distressed state no one enter the apartment. What would have been said about that. What is Kate hiding probably.
When you have found your child missing you are hardly in any state to think about destroying evidence. Amaral hadn't lost a child though and he allowed the bedding to be taken away to be washed!!
When you have found your child missing you are hardly in any state to think about destroying evidence.
What when you know your child has been abducted like kmc was.
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What about the police and their dogs? Leaving fag ash and hairs?
So if Kate said in her distressed state no one enter the apartment. What would have been said about that. What is Kate hiding probably.
When you have found your child missing you are hardly in any state to think about destroying evidence. Amaral hadn't lost a child though and he allowed the bedding to be taken away to be washed!!
When you have found your child missing you are hardly in any state to think about destroying evidence
The thing here as well ...we dont know what she was thinking it seems about destroying evidence
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When you have found your child missing you are hardly in any state to think about destroying evidence
The thing here as well ...we dont know what she was thinking it seems about destroying evidence
How did she destroy evidence? Kate was in a state of shock. Yes she thought to herself that Madeleine had been abducted but having found her daughter missing she was in a very vulnerable condition and wouldn't have been thinking straight. 'She certainly wouldn't have been thinking like a Police Officer who should have taped the area off straight away.
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When you have found your child missing you are hardly in any state to think about destroying evidence.
What when you know your child has been abducted like kmc was.
For gods sake!! yes she thought Madeleine had been taken that doesn't mean she was able to act as a Police officer does it? Your head would be all over the place. Are you unable to put your self in Kates position?
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How did she destroy evidence? Kate was in a state of shock. Yes she thought to herself that Madeleine had been abducted but having found her daughter missing she was in a very vulnerable condition and wouldn't have been thinking straight. 'She certainly wouldn't have been thinking like a Police Officer who should have taped the area off straight away.
What would be the point of that really.....when 20 + had already trampled round it huh.
I don't know what she was thinking.............but guess what - neither do you.
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For gods sake!! yes she thought Madeleine had been taken that doesn't mean she was able to act as a Police officer does it? Your head would be all over the place. Are you unable to put your self in Kates position?
Are you unable to put your self in Kates position?
No, I have ....that is the reason I am on here
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What would be the point of that really.....when 20 + had already trampled round it huh.
I don't know what she was thinking.............but guess what - neither do you.
I can guess what she was thinking. Where is Madeleine is she being hurt..
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How did she destroy evidence? Kate was in a state of shock. Yes she thought to herself that Madeleine had been abducted but having found her daughter missing she was in a very vulnerable condition and wouldn't have been thinking straight. 'She certainly wouldn't have been thinking like a Police Officer who should have taped the area off straight away.
A difficult time, I imagine.
Best regards,
The Gen
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I can guess what she was thinking. Where is Madeleine is she being hurt..
By the couch?
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I can guess what she was thinking. Where is Madeleine is she being hurt..
Oh well ..that's that then.
But you know what ...did they have a braincell between them....they wrote the timeline quickly enough.
Firstly leaving the children in harms way.
Then not a thought to keep everyone out.
Maybe too busy on phone - letting every one know Maddie was abducted.
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Oh well ..that's that then.
But you know what ...did they have a braincell between them....they wrote the timeline quickly enough.
Firstly leaving the children in harms way.
Then not a thought to keep everyone out.
Maybe too busy on phone - letting every one know Maddie was abducted.
Better to let loved ones no before they see it on the media.
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Better to let loved ones no before they see it on the media.
Well seemed it was there main priority...bit of a shock though for them...especially if Maddie had been found
Well good on kmc to know she wasn't going to be found .putting the burden on her family as quickly as she did.
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what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
well we will never know what was destroyed .....will we.
The thing is kmcc "knew" that Maddie had been taken straight away.
She thoughroly searched the apartment [10mins] yet the mccs let everyone in ......why
Pre-Secured Scenes
The potential for evidence (or crime scene) contamination increases as the number of people entering a crime scene also increases. Once a scene has been secured, the risk of contamination is greatly reduced. However, what about the events which occurred before the scene was secured? How many people entered and left the scene without being recorded as being there?
No, but we can speculate on what sort of forensic evidence you imagine might point to an accidental death following a fall and a cover up by the parents that was lost in the 20 person plus pile on. Can you give me a “for example”?
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By the couch?
If you think Madeleine was hurt by the couch at the time Kate entered the apartment please describe in your opinion the events leading up to that moment and the subsequent ten or fifteen minutes after her discovery. TIA.
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No, but we can speculate on what sort of forensic evidence you imagine might point to an accidental death following a fall and a cover up by the parents that was lost in the 20 person plus pile on. Can you give me a “for example”?
Ye sure..but I would have thought even you would know...without asking me.
Learn more
If a crime scene is contaminated, valuable forensic evidence like fingerprints, DNA, hair fibers, or other trace evidence can be lost or compromised, potentially weakening a case against a suspect and making it difficult to establish a link between the perpetrator and the crime scene,
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Ye sure..but I would have thought even you would know...without asking me.
Learn more
If a crime scene is contaminated, valuable forensic evidence like fingerprints, DNA, hair fibers, or other trace evidence can be lost or compromised, potentially weakening a case against a suspect and making it difficult to establish a link between the perpetrator and the crime scene,
Right. DNA, hair fibres, fingerprints- do you think if any of those were found belonging to any of the McCanns in the apartment that this would be suspicious or point to an accidental death and cover up?
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Right. DNA, hair fibres, fingerprints- do you think if any of those were found belonging to any of the McCanns in the apartment that this would be suspicious or point to an accidental death and cover up?
Wait........I thought you thought Maddie was abducted
do you think if any of those were found belonging to any of the McCanns in the apartment that this would be suspicious or point to an accidental death and cover up?
Why not a so-called abductor.
Do you think then it would only be mccs DNA ......because no one else was in there...so just let in the 20+
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Wait........I thought you thought Maddie was abducted
do you think if any of those were found belonging to any of the McCanns in the apartment that this would be suspicious or point to an accidental death and cover up?
Why not a so-called abductor.
Do you think then it would only be mccs DNA ......because no one else was in there...so just let in the 20+
And I thought you thought the McCanns dunnit which is why my question was if Gerry McCann had found Madeleine dead in the apartment after falling off the sofa or balcony and carried her body through town afterwards what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
You imply that the McCanns deliberately allowed 20+ people into the apartment to trample all over the DNA evidence however obviously there would be no DNA evidence worth trampling over if they did it, so basically your criticism is really only valid if you think that DNA evidence of a third party may have been destroyed.
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And I thought you thought the McCanns dunnit which is why my question was if Gerry McCann had found Madeleine dead in the apartment after falling off the sofa or balcony and carried her body through town afterwards what sort of forensic evidence proving this do you think might have been destroyed by the 20+ people walking through the apartment that night?
You imply that the McCanns deliberately allowed 20+ people into the apartment to trample all over the DNA evidence however obviously there would be no DNA evidence worth trampling over if they did it, so basically your criticism is really only valid if you think that DNA evidence of a third party may have been destroyed.
I was talking about the so called abductor DNA.
So why you have to go OTT over what you think - I think is just baffelling
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I was talking about the so called abductor DNA.
So why you have to go OTT over what you think - I think is just baffelling
In what way have I gone OTT exactly? I suspect you find a lot of things “baffelling” Kizzy, never mind.
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In what way have I gone OTT exactly? I suspect you find a lot of things “baffelling” Kizzy, never mind.
Whatever.......but just remember you only reply to the hand.
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Whatever.......but just remember you only reply to the hand.
Ah, the face ain’t listenin’. That explains it.
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Ah, the face ain’t listenin’. That explains it.
Hmmm
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from: Vertigo Swirl on February 09, 2025, 04:44:59 PM
Right. DNA, hair fibres, fingerprints- do you think if any of those were found belonging to any of the McCanns in the apartment that this would be suspicious or point to an accidental death and cover up?
Wait........I thought you thought Maddie was abducted
do you think if any of those were found belonging to any of the McCanns in the apartment that this would be suspicious or point to an accidental death and cover up?
Why not a so-called abductor.
Do you think then it would only be mccs DNA ......because no one else was in there...so just let in the 20+
Kizzy, finding any of the stuff mentioned by VS would not be suspicious in any way. The Mccanns were living there, fgs and there were bouind to be traces of them in the apartment. No need to cover up their own traces.
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If you think Madeleine was hurt by the couch at the time Kate entered the apartment please describe in your opinion the events leading up to that moment and the subsequent ten or fifteen minutes after her discovery. TIA.
It was a question.
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Nice little drunken piley on going on last night I see. Play nice ladies, or the mods might wake up and they'll take the crayons away again.
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It was a question.
One loaded with implication.
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Nice little drunken piley on going on last night I see. Play nice ladies, or the mods might wake up and they'll take the crayons away again.
Sexist.
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Amaral's theory was that Madeleine woke up and hearing her fathers voice got up to see where he was stood on the sofa and fell. So if anyone was to find her it would have been Kate. So where did Kate hide Madeleine? It would have had to be a good place as all those people disturbing the evidence would have charged through the apartment.
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Amaral's theory was that Madeleine woke up and hearing her fathers voice got up to see where he was stood on the sofa and fell. So if anyone was to find her it would have been Kate. So where did Kate hide Madeleine? It would have had to be a good place as all those people disturbing the evidence would have charged through the apartment.
In bold: how / why?
....and I notice you're still bloody fumin about the crime scene being contaminated 17 years on, which is up to you obviously, but at that precise moment I'm sure everyone was keen to 'search' for wee Maddie and it wasn't necessarily a crime scene.
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In bold: how / why?
....and I notice you're still bloody fumin about the crime scene being contaminated 17 years on, which is up to you obviously, but at that precise moment I'm sure everyone was keen to 'search' for wee Maddie and it wasn't necessarily a crime scene.
It's not me fuming over the crime scene being contaminated. Kizzy brought it up not me.
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In bold: how / why?
....and I notice you're still bloody fumin about the crime scene being contaminated 17 years on, which is up to you obviously, but at that precise moment I'm sure everyone was keen to 'search' for wee Maddie and it wasn't necessarily a crime scene.
It was Kate who found Madeleine missing from her bed. Kate searched the apartment so if Madeleine was on the floor after a fall Kate would have found her.
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It's not me fuming over the crime scene being contaminated. Kizzy brought it up not me.
You keep bringing it up - and it wasn't a crime scene - apparently everyone was hairless looking in cupboards and in the toilet cistern.
Did anyone look in the washing machine Gerry broke?
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You keep bringing it up - and it wasn't a crime scene - apparently everyone was hairless looking in cupboards and in the toilet cistern.
Did anyone look in the washing machine Gerry broke?
Which Washing Machine?
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Which Washing Machine?
Good question. How many appliances or items of drapery did Gerry damage / find defective? Could be germane.
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Good question. How many appliances or items of drapery did Gerry damage / find defective? Could be germane.
I suspect that you are getting a bit mixed up, again.
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I suspect that you are getting a bit mixed up, again.
Is this still the Lee Harvey Oswald thing, chasing Princess Leia through the catacombs in Paris?
The washing machine, woman! Get a grip, man!
He broke the blinds and couldnae wuk the woshin masheen, ken? I'm not surprised as that's womans work.
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Which Washing Machine?
The washing machine he put the body in and then carried to the tip on his back. I expect someone somewhere has a video of him doing it.
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The washing machine he put the body in and then carried to the tip on his back. I expect someone somewhere has a video of him doing it.
I think you might find that was supposed to be a refrigerator, although was said to be sometime later. If it ever happened, of course.
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I think you might find that was supposed to be a refrigerator, although was said to be sometime later. If it ever happened, of course.
He put the body in the washing machine first and put it on a high temp wash to get rid of the incriminating DNA. That’s how it broke.
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It was Kate who found Madeleine missing from her bed. Kate searched the apartment so if Madeleine was on the floor after a fall Kate would have found her.
Kate searched the apartment so if Madeleine was on the floor after a fall Kate would have found her.
How do you know she didn't find her...
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He put the body in the washing machine first and put it on a high temp wash to get rid of the incriminating DNA. That’s how it broke.
Sad really ....to joke about something so tragic
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My point was.... to all who thought I was talking about mccs DNA .....it wasn't
kmc knew straight away - when running to the tapas, Maddie had been taken.
It was it seems to me the reason 20 plus were let into the apartment ....
It contaminated any evidence/DNA being found
after all nothing was found - evidence wise to say Maddie had been abducted
Another unexplained detail is Mrs. McCann's reaction to not immediately finding her daughter. Several sources report her screaming "Madeleine's gone! Someone's taken her!" as she ran back toward the restaurant. In the 2008 interview mentioned previously, she says "I knew straight away that, err, she’d been . . . taken, [you] know." This seems odd to me, and as I understand it, the initial reaction of others on the scene was that Madeleine must have wandered off by accident
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Kate searched the apartment so if Madeleine was on the floor after a fall Kate would have found her.
How do you know she didn't find her...
Where would she have hidden Madeleine if she had found her? She was in there for ten minutes, then as you said everyone entered the apartment. Tell me where she would have hidden Madeleine.
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Where would she have hidden Madeleine if she had found her? She was in there for ten minutes, then as you said everyone entered the apartment. Tell me where she would have hidden Madeleine.
Well it seems there is speculation that it was before the 3rd.... that Maddie went missing.
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Where would she have hidden Madeleine if she had found her? She was in there for ten minutes, then as you said everyone entered the apartment. Tell me where she would have hidden Madeleine.
She opened the window & passed Maddie to Brueckner. That's what the forensic evidence suggests.
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Sad really ....to joke about something so tragic
The joke’s on idiots who believe this stuff. There are people out there who genuinely believe Madeleine’s father callously stuck her body in a fridge or a bin or a sports bag, so why not a washing machine too? They’re all theories that are as barmy as each other and deserving of ridicule imo.
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My point was.... to all who thought I was talking about mccs DNA .....it wasn't
kmc knew straight away - when running to the tapas, Maddie had been taken.
It was it seems to me the reason 20 plus were let into the apartment ....
It contaminated any evidence/DNA being found
after all nothing was found - evidence wise to say Maddie had been abducted
Another unexplained detail is Mrs. McCann's reaction to not immediately finding her daughter. Several sources report her screaming "Madeleine's gone! Someone's taken her!" as she ran back toward the restaurant. In the 2008 interview mentioned previously, she says "I knew straight away that, err, she’d been . . . taken, [you] know." This seems odd to me, and as I understand it, the initial reaction of others on the scene was that Madeleine must have wandered off by accident
Contaminated what evidence? This brings me back to my question. What DNA evidence would you expect to find the proved the McCanns covered up the accidental death of their child in that apartment? There is nothing that could have been found - hairs, blood, saliva, skin flakes, whatever - belonging to any of the McCanns that couldn’t have had a perfectly innocent explanation so there was no advantage in deliberately contaminating the scene as you have suggested.
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Well it seems there is speculation that it was before the 3rd.... that Maddie went missing.
Do you seriously believe that’s likely?
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The joke’s on idiots who believe this stuff. There are people out there who genuinely believe Madeleine’s father callously stuck her body in a fridge or a bin or a sports bag, so why not a washing machine too? They’re all theories that are as barmy as each other and deserving of ridicule imo.
Why are they idiots ..you should just chill a bit.
You don't know either if Maddie was took out in a bag or stuck in a bin....you wasn't there was you.
Its just the washing machine on boil I found that post was nasty.
But if you want to impress with jokes those who you call idiots....I suppose its ur problem
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Contaminated what evidence? This brings me back to my question. What DNA evidence would you expect to find the proved the McCanns covered up the accidental death of their child in that apartment? There is nothing that could have been found - hairs, blood, saliva, skin flakes, whatever - belonging to any of the McCanns that couldn’t have had a perfectly innocent explanation so there was no advantage in deliberately contaminating the scene as you have suggested.
Contaminated what evidence?
So you dont think there was a abduction then.
Well if there had been an abductor......but obviously - you think there wasn't ...there was no evidence to contaminate of one.
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This is disgusting. I think it's an appalling idea, that Maddie was put in the washing machine. But I think it could also form part of my next new theory.
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Why are they idiots ..you should just chill a bit.
You don't know either if Maddie was took out in a bag or stuck in a bin....you wasn't there was you.
Its just the washing machine on boil I found that post was nasty.
But if you want to impress with jokes those who you call idiots....I suppose its ur problem
You should just chill a bit, get off your high horse and relax a bit. There is no evidence that Madeleine was put in a bag or a bin or a fridge or a washing machine but that won’t stop idiotic speculation, it’s been going on for 17+ years now so hardly likely to stop anytime soon.
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Contaminated what evidence?
So you dont think there was a abduction then.
Well if there had been an abductor......but obviously - you think there wasn't ...there was no evidence to contaminate of one.
I wish you understood plain English sometimes, it would make having a discussion with you so much easier.
Let’s try and break it down into bite sized chunks:
1) do you think the McCanns deliberately contaminated the crime scene?
YES / NO
If you answered NO then you can stop reading now.
If you answered YES then answer question 2
2) do you think the McCanns found Madeleine dead and covered up her death?
YES/NO
If you answered NO then ask yourself this question - why would they want to contaminate the crime scene and post your answer in the comments below
if you answered YES then ask yourself this question - what forensic evidence do you think the McCanns were trying to contaminate that might link them to the accidental death of Madeleine or to a cover up that could NOT have an innocent explanation? Please post your answer in the comments below.
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Well it seems there is speculation that it was before the 3rd.... that Maddie went missing.
Do you know why they think this? It's because they know the McCann's couldn't have disposed of Madeleine's body on the 3rd of May. There was no time. So they come up with this ridiculous idea that Madeleine must have disappeared earlier. It is ridiculous as Madeleine was SEEN!! They say everyone must be either lying or mistaken in order to fit in with their theory because they can't be wrong. The Nanny was lying she must have mistaken Madeleine for another little girl. It was the Nanny's job to look after the children there weren't many of them. To say she mixed Madeleine up with another child is absolutely bonkers. Madeleine was on the beach she went on a boat. She was seen by people. Madeleine was at the side of the pool with her Dad and sister. No she wasn't they say this photo must have been taken on the Sunday as the Sunday was the only day it was sunny. Rubbish it was sunny on the Thursday. The friends of the McCann's were on the beach enjoying the sunshine. Mrs Fenn's niece was sitting outside of her Aunts apartment in the sun she said it was sunny. Are they all liars? The man she saw who was fiddling with the gate was wearing a t shirt would he be wearing a t shirt if it was a cold rainy day? I'm sorry but these people are absolutely crazy to think Madeleine wasn't alive on the Thursday because it doesn't fit in with their theory that the McCann's staged the abduction.
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Do you know why they think this? It's because they know the McCann's couldn't have disposed of Madeleine's body on the 3rd of May. There was no time. So they come up with this ridiculous idea that Madeleine must have disappeared earlier. It is ridiculous as Madeleine was SEEN!! They say everyone must be either lying or mistaken in order to fit in with their theory because they can't be wrong. The Nanny was lying she must have mistaken Madeleine for another little girl. It was the Nanny's job to look after the children there weren't many of them. To say she mixed Madeleine up with another child is absolutely bonkers. Madeleine was on the beach she went on a boat. She was seen by people. Madeleine was at the side of the pool with her Dad and sister. No she wasn't they say this photo must have been taken on the Sunday as the Sunday was the only day it was sunny. Rubbish it was sunny on the Thursday. The friends of the McCann's were on the beach enjoying the sunshine. Mrs Fenn's niece was sitting outside of her Aunts apartment in the sun she said it was sunny. Are they all liars? The man she saw who was fiddling with the gate was wearing a t shirt would he be wearing a t shirt if it was a cold rainy day? I'm sorry but these people are absolutely crazy to think Madeleine wasn't alive on the Thursday because it doesn't fit in with their theory that the McCann's staged the abduction.
Post of the day.
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Nobody. Anybody?
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Nobody. Anybody?
The only person trying to keep this forum alive is The General and he’s MIA. No doubt he’ll be back to wind us up again before long @)(++(*
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The only person trying to keep this forum alive is The General and he’s MIA. No doubt he’ll be back to wind us up again before long @)(++(*
Okay. That's alright then.
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It's good to see that everyone is waiting patiently & peacefully for Wolters to reveal the concrete evidence. It shouldn't be much longer now.
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It's good to see that everyone is waiting patiently & peacefully for Wolters to reveal the concrete evidence. It shouldn't be much longer now.
Do you never get bored of writing the same post over and over again? Have you considered waiting patiently and peacefully without the need to frequently document your patient wait? Just a thought...
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Do you never get bored of writing the same post over and over again? Have you considered waiting patiently and peacefully without the need to frequently document your patient wait? Just a thought...
The fact remains that after being found guilty of aggravated rape, investigators charged the only suspect in the crime against Madeleine McCann with not only one indictment for serious sexual assault but five.
Bearing that precedent in mind, only investigators have the information which may result in Brueckner being indicted with one crime or more crimes than one.
At the moment it is very much a waiting game until the appeal court makes a ruling, but my money is on it being more than one.
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The fact remains that after being found guilty of aggravated rape, investigators charged the only suspect in the crime against Madeleine McCann with not only one indictment for serious sexual assault but five.
Bearing that precedent in mind, only investigators have the information which may result in Brueckner being indicted with one crime or more crimes than one.
At the moment it is very much a waiting game until the appeal court makes a ruling, but my money is on it being more than one.
Let’s look at your last prediction.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”
I’d keep my money in my pocket if I were you Brietta. Buy yourself a sweetie.
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Let’s look at your last prediction.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”
I’d keep my money in my pocket if I were you Brietta. Buy yourself a sweetie.
Your posts are- generally Off Topic
- and evidence a rare vendetta of personalisation amounting to a tiresome campaign of stalking which is tantamount to abuse
personalisation (noun)
the action of causing an issue, argument, etc. to become concerned with personalities or feelings rather than with general or abstract matters:
"he was a victim of the personalization of politics"
Obviously any annoyance thus caused could perhaps be considered unintentional but in consideration that if further ignored inappropriate personalisation might become ''normalised'' Nota Bene
ALL future such posts will be subject to appropriate action being instituted. Thank You
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Your posts are- generally Off Topic
- and evidence a rare vendetta of personalisation amounting to a tiresome campaign of stalking which is tantamount to abuse
personalisation (noun)
the action of causing an issue, argument, etc. to become concerned with personalities or feelings rather than with general or abstract matters:
"he was a victim of the personalization of politics"
Obviously any annoyance thus caused could perhaps be considered unintentional but in consideration that if further ignored inappropriate personalisation might become ''normalised'' Nota Bene
ALL future such posts will be subject to appropriate action being instituted. Thank You
What a fragile flower you are Brietta.
As my old friend used to say…if you want to dish it out you need to be able to take it. Your overreach and the vile targeting of posters who don’t think like you, and that’s most, has all but killed this forum.
Set a beggar on horseback and he will ride to hell. Never has the old proverb been so perfectly demonstrated than with your absurdly grandiose style of moderation.
If I was you you could do worse than look to Eleanor and her light touch when moderating.
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What a fragile flower you are Brietta.
As my old friend used to say…if you want to dish it out you need to be able to take it. Your overreach and the vile targeting of posters who don’t think like you, and that’s most, has all but killed this forum.
Set a beggar on horseback and he will ride to hell. Never has the old proverb been so perfectly demonstrated than with your absurdly grandiose style of moderation.
If I was you you could do worse than look to Eleanor and her light touch when moderating.
Considering every single post you’ve ever made on this forum contains a dig at Brietta underneath it I think she’s been remarkably tolerant of your nastiness.
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Considering every single post you’ve ever made on this forum contains a dig at Brietta underneath it I think she’s been remarkably tolerant of your nastiness.
Do you never tire of your hypocrisy? What did you have as your signature until recently?
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Do you never tire of your hypocrisy? What did you have as your signature until recently?
Yes it was a dig at you, inspired by your own dig at Brietta, so what? My point was that rather than being a harsh moderator Brietta has actually been incredibly tolerant considering you basically attack her every time you post. That’s not hypocrisy, that’s just pointing out the truth.
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Yes it was a dig at you, inspired by your own dig at Brietta, so what? My point was that rather than being a harsh moderator Brietta has actually been incredibly tolerant considering you basically attack her every time you post. That’s not hypocrisy, that’s just pointing out the truth.
Where is the attack in my signature? Didn’t she write what I posted?
Glad you have acknowledged your own hypocrisy.
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Where is the attack in my signature? Didn’t she write what I posted?
Glad you have acknowledged your own hypocrisy.
Are you unable to read? I said that there was very clearly no hypocrisy on my part. You know very well that the ONLY reason for your signature is to goad someone whose views you sneer at with the line you have added beneath her quote. If that was not your intention then kindly explain why you felt the need to highlight it with every post you write.
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Where is the attack in my signature? Didn’t she write what I posted?
Glad you have acknowledged your own hypocrisy.
Brietta puts it better than I did when she put that your posts
“evidence a rare vendetta of personalisation amounting to a tiresome campaign of stalking which is tantamount to abuse”.
Exactly! And yet she tolerates it day in day out.
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Are you unable to read? I said that there was very clearly no hypocrisy on my part. You know very well that the ONLY reason for your signature is to goad someone whose views you sneer at with the line you have added beneath her quote. If that was not your intention then kindly explain why you felt the need to highlight it with every post you write.
“ Considering every single post you’ve ever made on this forum contains a dig at Brietta underneath it”
Also you.
“ Yes it was a dig at you, inspired by your own dig at Brietta, so what?”
Please explain to me why this isn’t rampant hypocrisy on your part?
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Brietta puts it better than I did when she put that your posts
“evidence a rare vendetta of personalisation amounting to a tiresome campaign of stalking which is tantamount to abuse”.
Exactly! And yet she tolerates it day in day out.
I post here, you respond to every post. It’s tiresome so I stop answering. That doesn’t stop you.
I move to another topic. You follow me there. I don’t post for a while there, neither do you. I start again, so do you.
I’m not sure why but you do seem rather obsessed with me.
‘A tiresome ( and rather creepy)/campaign of stalking’
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
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I post here, you respond to every post. It’s tiresome so I stop answering. That doesn’t stop you.
I move to another topic. You follow me there. I don’t post for a while there, neither do you. I start again, so do you.
I’m not sure why but you do seem rather obsessed with me.
‘A tiresome ( and rather creepy)/campaign of stalking’
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
And that ladies and gentlemen is a perfect example of deflection and projection.
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“ Considering every single post you’ve ever made on this forum contains a dig at Brietta underneath it”
Also you.
“ Yes it was a dig at you, inspired by your own dig at Brietta, so what?”
Please explain to me why this isn’t rampant hypocrisy on your part?
The point I was originally highlighting was that despite the fact you abuse Brietta in every post you make (which is your choice, do what you like) Brietta tolerates it and therefore accusing her of harsh moderation is inaccurate. Also accusing her of “vile targeting” is what you do in every post you make, so that makes you a hypocrite doesn’t it? And as you have also noted I no longer attack you in my signature line, so I guess that makes me a less regularly abusive poster than you now.
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And that ladies and gentlemen is a perfect example of deflection and projection.
I should really remember the old adage…never wrestle with a pig, you’ll both get dirty and the pig likes it.
That’s why I’m taking my leave. Enjoy wallowing.
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I should really remember the old adage…never wrestle with a pig, you’ll both get dirty and the pig likes it.
That’s why I’m taking my leave. Enjoy wallowing.
And that ladies and gentlemen is the perfect example of a sore loser.
Don’t worry folks, she’ll be back!
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So it seems its going to be - back to square one on the drawing board.
One [out off hundreds] of the things that has always struck me as so odd
Is why they never suspected anyone close to home.
Why was there only option - that Maddie was taken by a stranger.
convinced enough to think it safe for twins to go in creche the next day
Why wasn't all options open...after all its not as if they were all good friends..
They never suspected anyone trusted them 100%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MYkdgFVmrk&t=2494s
Interesting outlook to listen to - when you have time on your hands
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So it seems its going to be - back to square one on the drawing board.
One [out off hundreds] of the things that has always struck me as so odd
Is why they never suspected anyone close to home.
Why was there only option - that Maddie was taken by a stranger.
convinced enough to think it safe for twins to go in creche the next day
Why wasn't all options open...after all its not as if they were all good friends..
They never suspected anyone trusted them 100%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MYkdgFVmrk&t=2494s
Interesting outlook to listen to - when you have time on your hands
it’s not back to the drawing board. CB remains the prime and only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, and that’s the way it’s likely to remain even when the slimy get is creeping around on the outside molesting and raping other women and children.
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duplicate post
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It’s not back to the drawing board. CB remains the prime and only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, and that’s the way it’s likely to remain even when the slimy get is creeping around on the outside molesting and raping other women and children.
No. This isn't fair. You can't just presume Brueckner guilty of molesting children & raping women .....in the future. You have no idea what he's going to be doing with his life after he leaves prison & quite frankly his life is none of your business anyway. Suppose he never commits a single crime in the remainder of his life? Will you be apologising to him for this disgraceful smear? I very much doubt it.
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No. This isn't fair. You can't just presume Brueckner guilty of molesting children & raping women .....in the future. You have no idea what he's going to be doing with his life after he leaves prison & quite frankly his life is none of your business anyway. Suppose he never commits a single crime in the remainder of his life? Will you be apologising for this disgraceful smear? I very much doubt it.
I can do whatever I like and there’s nothing you can do to stop me. But tell you what, you stop smearing the McCanns and I’ll stop smearing the paedo / rapist, ‘kay?
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I can do whatever I like and there’s nothing you can do to stop me. But tell you what, you stop smearing the McCanns and I’ll stop smearing the paedo / rapist, ‘kay?
I think you mean ex-paedo/rapist. He hasn't raped or molested anyone in seven years & there's no evidence he's going to do so again.
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I think you mean ex-paedo/rapist. He hasn't raped or molested anyone in seven years & there's no evidence he's going to do so again.
no, I definitely mean paedo / rapist.
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no, I definitely mean paedo / rapist.
Well from now on I'll only ever be referring to Christian Brueckner as a paedo/rapist, in the past tense. Since, whilst he did commit those crimes in the past, he isn't raping or molesting anyone in the present, & there's no guarantee he will be doing so in future. I think that's only fair & reasonable under the circumstances.
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Well from now on I'll only ever be referring to Christian Brueckner as a paedo/rapist, in the past tense. Since, whilst he did commit those crimes in the past, he isn't raping or molesting anyone in the present, & there's no guarantee he will be doing so in future. I think that's only fair & reasonable under the circumstances.
we’ve had this tiresome argument before. You do what you like, it doesn’t alter the fact that Christian Bruckner has a prediliction for and a long history of abusing children. It doesn’t alter the fact that he has the propensity to tie up a woman and subject her to hours’ long sexual depravity. If you were fortunate enough to have any women or girls in your life would you be happy for them to spend the day alone in this man’s company? If so you’re sicker than I thought.
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No. This isn't fair. You can't just presume Brueckner guilty of molesting children & raping women .....in the future. You have no idea what he's going to be doing with his life after he leaves prison & quite frankly his life is none of your business anyway. Suppose he never commits a single crime in the remainder of his life? Will you be apologising to him for this disgraceful smear? I very much doubt it.
Please try not to be too ridiculous.
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I think you mean ex-paedo/rapist. He hasn't raped or molested anyone in seven years & there's no evidence he's going to do so again.
Why has he not raped or molested anyone in seven years? Because he has been in prison. Who knows what he will do when he gets out. Or should I say, If he gets out.
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we’ve had this tiresome argument before. You do what you like, it doesn’t alter the fact that Christian Bruckner has a prediliction for and a long history of abusing children. It doesn’t alter the fact that he has the propensity to tie up a woman and subject her to hours’ long sexual depravity. If you were fortunate enough to have any women or girls in your life would you be happy for them to spend the day alone in this man’s company? If so you’re sicker than I thought.
You conveniently ignore the fact that Brueckner's ex-girlfriend gave evidence in his defence. She had nothing but positive things to say about him.
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Why has he not raped or molested anyone in seven years? Because he has been in prison. Who knows what he will do when he gets out. Or should I say, If he gets out.
You don't know that, that the only reason he hasn't reoffended is because he's been in prison. He could be completely reformed but you'll never give him the courtesy of presuming him innocent again. Nothing but bias on your part.
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You conveniently ignore the fact that Brueckner's ex-girlfriend gave evidence in his defence. She had nothing but positive things to say about him.
Was that the same girlfriend that he was with when he robbed a couple of one hundred grand? So you’re saying that when CB comes out of prison you’d have no problem with him being left alone with any females that you care deeply about (assuming there are any of course)? That you don’t think there is any likelihood of him ever molesting another child or raping another woman? Upon what do you base this assumption out of interest?
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You don't know that, that the only reason he hasn't reoffended is because he's been in prison. He could be completely reformed but you'll never give him the courtesy of presuming him innocent again. Nothing but bias on your part.
How many women and children has he had access to to rape while in prison, any ideas?
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How many women and children has he had access to to rape while in prison, any ideas?
Such an obvious conclusion after years of offending and reoffending. But never mind about that.
My fear is that he will kill the next one rather than risk being caught.
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You conveniently ignore the fact that Brueckner's ex-girlfriend gave evidence in his defence. She had nothing but positive things to say about him.
is this the ex girlfriend you’re referring to? Sh must have rocks in her head btw
I met Madeleine McCann suspect on site used by paedophiles’
Ex-girlfriend of Christian Brueckner tells a German court she met him on a dating site which she later found was used by ‘sick people’
Rob HydeMarch 14 2024, 2.50pm
Brueckner, a convicted rapist, later met the woman and drunkenly bragged to her about breaking into Algarve holiday apartments while naked and using a pair of tights as a mask, she said. She was giving evidence in Braunschweig regional court, where Brueckner is on trial accused of carrying out sex attacks on women and children in Portugal, including three rapes.
“At the beginning I thought it was about me. But when I spoke to him, I mentioned my daughter. She was almost four … He said she was cute and could be a model.”
Brueckner, 47, is the man German investigators believe abducted three-year-old Madeleine from her parents’ rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in 2007. The present trial involves separate charges against him, which he denies.
The witness told the court that Brueckner had boasted that while living in Portugal he had claimed to have repeatedly burgled holiday apartments at night, stealing jewellery, watches, cash and passports from wealthy tourists, and that he had done this wearing a pair of tights as a mask.
“I can remember he said he had tights over his head, with goggles. But when he talked about walking around with goggles on, well … the idea of walking past people who were sleeping wearing goggles, I just thought, ‘Who does this?’”
• Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner on trial for sex offences
The woman described dates with Brueckner, including visiting him at a shop where he worked and his allotment, and going to watch a football match in Braunschweig. She said she had often brought her three-year-old daughter with her.
Brueckner had “always” been drunk, and she “never knew him sober”, but she said his behaviour had not made her worried about leaving him alone with her daughter, which she sometimes did.
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is this the ex girlfriend you’re referring to? Sh must have rocks in her head btw
I met Madeleine McCann suspect on site used by paedophiles’
Ex-girlfriend of Christian Brueckner tells a German court she met him on a dating site which she later found was used by ‘sick people’
Rob HydeMarch 14 2024, 2.50pm
Brueckner, a convicted rapist, later met the woman and drunkenly bragged to her about breaking into Algarve holiday apartments while naked and using a pair of tights as a mask, she said. She was giving evidence in Braunschweig regional court, where Brueckner is on trial accused of carrying out sex attacks on women and children in Portugal, including three rapes.
“At the beginning I thought it was about me. But when I spoke to him, I mentioned my daughter. She was almost four … He said she was cute and could be a model.”
Brueckner, 47, is the man German investigators believe abducted three-year-old Madeleine from her parents’ rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in 2007. The present trial involves separate charges against him, which he denies.
The witness told the court that Brueckner had boasted that while living in Portugal he had claimed to have repeatedly burgled holiday apartments at night, stealing jewellery, watches, cash and passports from wealthy tourists, and that he had done this wearing a pair of tights as a mask.
“I can remember he said he had tights over his head, with goggles. But when he talked about walking around with goggles on, well … the idea of walking past people who were sleeping wearing goggles, I just thought, ‘Who does this?’”
• Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner on trial for sex offences
The woman described dates with Brueckner, including visiting him at a shop where he worked and his allotment, and going to watch a football match in Braunschweig. She said she had often brought her three-year-old daughter with her.
Brueckner had “always” been drunk, and she “never knew him sober”, but she said his behaviour had not made her worried about leaving him alone with her daughter, which she sometimes did.
See, he didn't rape her, or molest her daughter. This proves he isn't a danger to women & children.
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Such an obvious conclusion after years of offending and reoffending. But never mind about that.
My fear is that he will kill the next one rather than risk being caught.
Ridiculous. He's had ample opportunity to murder people & he hasn't done so. This proves he isn't a danger to women & children. And even if he was I wouldn't care anyway, it's not my problem. Maybe women & children should try being more careful.
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See, he didn't rape her, or molest her daughter. This proves he isn't a danger to women & children.
I think the convictions for child sex abuse and rape prove the reverse actually. Troll.
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Was that the same girlfriend that he was with when he robbed a couple of one hundred grand? So you’re saying that when CB comes out of prison you’d have no problem with him being left alone with any females that you care deeply about (assuming there are any of course)? That you don’t think there is any likelihood of him ever molesting another child or raping another woman? Upon what do you base this assumption out of interest?
Oh I see. So we should just do away with lighter sentencing & just bang people up forever after their first offence, just to be sure they can never offend again. Brueckner should be presumed guilty of future crimes in advance, just incase, going by what you're saying. It's a ridiculous concept, grossly unfair, authoritarian & unrealistic.
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I think the convictions for child sex abuse and rape prove the reverse actually. Troll.
That's in the past. He's served his sentence & deserves a fresh start in life.
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After 16 years we've learned that amongst McCann supporters there is no forgiveness for previous crimes & sin. Unless it's the McCanns, they of course can be forgiven for being shit parents.
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That's in the past. He's served his sentence & deserves a fresh start in life.
People like this never change their ways unfortunately so a fresh start is a bit of wishful thinking. If he is ever released let's hope and pray that there are conditions associated with it and he is never allowed to leave Germany.
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After 16 years we've learned that amongst McCann supporters there is no forgiveness for previous crimes & sin. Unless it's the McCanns, they of course can be forgiven for being shit parents.
I doubt it very much 8(8-))
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People like this never change their ways unfortunately so a fresh start is a bit of wishful thinking. If he is ever released let's hope and pray that there are conditions associated with it and he is never allowed to leave Germany.
Surely any conditions on his release should have been made during sentencing? I don't think it's fair to start amending a prisoner's sentence just prior to their release.
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Oh I see. So we should just do away with lighter sentencing & just bang people up forever after their first offence, just to be sure they can never offend again. Brueckner should be presumed guilty of future crimes in advance, just incase, going by what you're saying. It's a ridiculous concept, grossly unfair, authoritarian & unrealistic.
I didn’t say any of that but do carry on trolling if you must.
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I didn’t say any of that but do carry on trolling if you must.
I'm bored so I must. It appears to me that in McCann supporter world there is no forgiveness, no presumption of innocence & infact, a presumption of future guilt You appear to believe Brueckner should never be allowed near members of the opposite sex again. Considering that's about 50% of the worlds population it is a totally unworkable idea. It also seems a very unfair perspective on criminal justice to me. All sentences become life sentences. No one can ever redeem themselves. What a terribly negative & miserable outlook on things. No. I believe criminals should be given a second chance in life. Shouldn't be presumed guilty in advance of anything & being the key prime only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, legally, should have no bearing on Brueckner's freedom come September. Unless they actually get round to charging him of course. Then they could remand him. But obviously, that's never going to happen.
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I'm bored so I must. It appears to me that in McCann supporter world there is no forgiveness, no presumption of innocence & infact, a presumption of future guilt You appear to believe Brueckner should never be allowed near members of the opposite sex again. Considering that's about 50% of the worlds population it is a totally unworkable idea. It also seems a very unfair perspective on criminal justice to me. All sentences become life sentences. No one can ever redeem themselves. What a terribly negative & miserable outlook on things. No. I believe criminals should be given a second chance in life. Shouldn't be presumed guilty in advance of anything & being the key prime only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, legally, should have no bearing on Brueckner's freedom come September. Unless they actually get round to charging him of course. Then they could remand him. But obviously, that's never going to happen.
Why don’t you campaign to have the sex offenders register abolished then if you feel so strongly sbout it? Also, campaign to make all arrest, charges and convictions anonymous so that no one ever knows what’s going on, r who’s done what that way paedos can get jobs in nurseries, rapists and murderers can get jobs in schools and offices and hospitals, which would obviously be so much fairer and safer for everyone concerned.
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Surely any conditions on his release should have been made during sentencing? I don't think it's fair to start amending a prisoner's sentence just prior to their release.
You obviously don’t understand the parole process and the conditions that are usually applied.
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Why don’t you campaign to have the sex offenders register abolished then if you feel so strongly sbout it? Also, campaign to make all arrest, charges and convictions anonymous so that no one ever knows what’s going on, r who’s done what that way paedos can get jobs in nurseries, rapists and murderers can get jobs in schools and offices and hospitals, which would obviously be so much fairer and safer for everyone concerned.
I thought they'd done that already.
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I'm bored so I must. It appears to me that in McCann supporter world there is no forgiveness, no presumption of innocence & infact, a presumption of future guilt You appear to believe Brueckner should never be allowed near members of the opposite sex again. Considering that's about 50% of the worlds population it is a totally unworkable idea. It also seems a very unfair perspective on criminal justice to me. All sentences become life sentences. No one can ever redeem themselves. What a terribly negative & miserable outlook on things. No. I believe criminals should be given a second chance in life. Shouldn't be presumed guilty in advance of anything & being the key prime only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, legally, should have no bearing on Brueckner's freedom come September. Unless they actually get round to charging him of course. Then they could remand him. But obviously, that's never going to happen.
Read what the Psychiatrist said - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13899543/psychiatrist-madeleine-mccann-warning-christian-brueckner.html
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'He is one of the absolute top dangerous people,'Dr Riedemann said, adding in a stark warning that: 'A new victim is to be expected soon.'
It was also revealed that Brueckner scored nearly 100 per cent on a test where just over 60 per cent suggests the subject is a psychopath.
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I think Spam should offer CB a room in his trolls’ hovel when he gets out, seeing as how kindly disposed he is towards the paedo / rapist. Let the pyscho-bromance commence in earnest.
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'He is one of the absolute top dangerous people,'Dr Riedemann said, adding in a stark warning that: 'A new victim is to be expected soon.'
It was also revealed that Brueckner scored nearly 100 per cent on a test where just over 60 per cent suggests the subject is a psychopath.
The psychiatrist was there to represent the prosecution. Of course he's going to have a biased negative opinion of Brueckner. He's never even met the man.
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I think Spam should offer CB a room in his trolls’ hovel when he gets out, seeing as how kindly disposed he is towards the paedo / rapist. Let the pyscho-bromance commence in earnest.
Don't be silly. Just because I support the predatory paedophiles right to the presumption of innocence doesn't mean I have to live with him. However, I could do with a nice campervan holiday around Europe.
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The psychiatrist was there to represent the prosecution. Of course he's going to have a biased negative opinion of Brueckner. He's never even met the man.
Have you?
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Have you?
No. Which is why it would be wrong of me to just assume the worst of him based on his minor indiscretions.
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No. Which is why it would be wrong of me to just assume the worst of him based on his minor indiscretions.
Minor Indiscretions? Are you having a laugh?
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Minor Indiscretions? Are you having a laugh?
Need you really ask? Come on now. How many years have we been doing this?
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it’s not back to the drawing board. CB remains the prime and only suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, and that’s the way it’s likely to remain even when the slimy get is creeping around on the outside molesting and raping other women and children.
when the slimy get is creeping around on the outside molesting and raping other women and children.
What's your point they are letting people out early.. all the time - some not even going to prison. nearer home.
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when the slimy get is creeping around on the outside molesting and raping other women and children.
What's your point they are letting people out early.. all the time - some not even going to prison. nearer home.
My point is to found in the rest of the post which you didn’t highlight, well done.
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Don't be silly. Just because I support the predatory paedophiles right to the presumption of innocence doesn't mean I have to live with him. However, I could do with a nice campervan holiday around Europe.
No, I really think you should put your money where your mouth is and be there on the steps of Braunschweig prison (or wherever this psychopath is currently residing) and welcome him with arms wide open.
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The psychiatrist was there to represent the prosecution. Of course he's going to have a biased negative opinion of Brueckner. He's never even met the man.
Where is the corresponding psychological assessment from the defence saying what a gentle, kind, decent bloke he is then?
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Where is the corresponding psychological assessment from the defence saying what a gentle, kind, decent bloke he is then?
I don't know. The transcripts haven't been released. We've only been drip fed with mostly negative opinions of the man. However, at least one of his ex-girlfriends have said positive things about him & that he neither raped them nor molested their children.
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'He is one of the absolute top dangerous people,'Dr Riedemann said, adding in a stark warning that: 'A new victim is to be expected soon.'
It was also revealed that Brueckner scored nearly 100 per cent on a test where just over 60 per cent suggests the subject is a psychopath.
None of that is any proof - CB abducted Maddie.
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I don't know. The transcripts haven't been released. We've only been drip fed with mostly negative opinions of the man. However, at least one of his ex-girlfriends have said positive things about him & that he neither raped them nor molested their children.
she also said that he was a burglar who used to steal from people’s apartments with a pair of tights over his head and wearing nothing much else. Sounds like a nice man.
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None of that is any proof - CB abducted Maddie.
It's a reason he be kept in prison if you read the conversation I was having.
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It's a reason he be kept in prison if you read the conversation I was having.
I did.....although you cant exactly call it a conversation
it was posted in my post.
You should have read that properly
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I did.....although you cant exactly call it a conversation
it was posted in my post.
You should have read that properly
you've lost the plot. You're making non-sequitur observations on comments that weren't even addressed to you in the first place.
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you've lost the plot. You're making non-sequitur observations on comments that weren't even addressed to you in the first place.
What... you mean like that wasn't addressed to you either.
But you have answered it....
try practicing what you preach mdear
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What... you mean like that wasn't addressed to you either.
But you have answered it....
try practicing what you preach mdear
There’s nothing wrong with answering posts not addressed to you, but when the replies have absolutely nothing to do with the point being made and then you accuse the post writer of not reading your posts properly that’s when the problems arise. My dear.
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There’s nothing wrong with answering posts not addressed to you, but when the replies have absolutely nothing to do with the point being made and then you accuse the post writer of not reading your posts properly that’s when the problems arise. My dear.
What problems are those then.
I was the one accused first of not reading post.
It's a reason he be kept in prison if you read the conversation I was having.
Stop interfearing
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I can do whatever I like and there’s nothing you can do to stop me. But tell you what, you stop smearing the McCanns and I’ll stop smearing the paedo / rapist, ‘kay?
But tell you what, you stop smearing the McCanns and I’ll stop smearing the paedo / rapist, ‘kay?
Ah so is this your tactic...some sort of voluntary - self important shill it seems.
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But tell you what, you stop smearing the McCanns and I’ll stop smearing the paedo / rapist, ‘kay?
Ah so is this your tactic...some sort of voluntary - self important shill it seems.
It's disappointment and regret for falling for the Convenient Hobo ruse AGAIN.
You'd have thought the'd be more wary, having been burnt by Tractorman, but no, they put Hansie on his own pedestal, idolised him through their keyboards and poured their bile and filth on any neigh sayers.
It will be galling and probably for a long time to come, to be hoodwinked in such a transparently inept manner.
CB is not your hobo. Hansie is not your idol.
Back to the drawing board for you, MACA, wipe it clean, start again, but maybe inclde the parents this time.
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It's disappointment and regret for falling for the Convenient Hobo ruse AGAIN.
You'd have thought the'd be more wary, having been burnt by Tractorman, but no, they put Hansie on his own pedestal, idolised him through their keyboards and poured their bile and filth on any neigh sayers.
It will be galling and probably for a long time to come, to be hoodwinked in such a transparently inept manner.
CB is not your hobo. Hansie is not your idol.
Back to the drawing board for you, MACA, wipe it clean, start again, but maybe inclde the parents this time.
@)(++(* god you're trying so, so hard to get a rise out of us so-called MACAs, but apart from a wry smile and a roll of the eyes that's about all you're provoking. It must be a teensy bit frustrating for you, poor lad but full marks for trying.
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But tell you what, you stop smearing the McCanns and I’ll stop smearing the paedo / rapist, ‘kay?
Ah so is this your tactic...some sort of voluntary - self important shill it seems.
Voluntary?? Let me tell you something - I get paid good money for this, though demand for my services has tailed off in the last 10 years since more and more loony ol' sceptics either died of old age or lost interest. One or two even came to their senses and realised how dumb they'd been though they'll never admit it publicly of course....
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@)(++(* god you're trying so, so hard to get a rise out of us so-called MACAs, but apart from a wry smile and a roll of the eyes that's about all you're provoking. It must be a teensy bit frustrating for you, poor lad but full marks for trying.
Wait, do you still think he did it? Say it ain't so, Joe!
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Wait, do you still think he did it? Say it ain't so, Joe!
Sure, why not? You still think the McCanns did it and they’re even further away from ever being prosecuted than CB, so explain your logic.
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Sure, why not? You still think the McCanns did it and they’re even further away from ever being prosecuted than CB, so explain your logic.
But he's essentially been cleared, they haven't, the pair of gets.
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But he's essentially been cleared, they haven't, the pair of gets.
What absolute tripe. when was he cleared of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance? Do tell.
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But he's essentially been cleared, they haven't, the pair of gets.
They went from 'enough evidence to charge' to 'no charges ever' during 7 years of investigation. It seems the more they investigate him the less convincing the evidence becomes. Extraordinary.
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They went from 'enough evidence to charge' to 'no charges ever' during 7 years of investigation. It seems the more they investigate him the less convincing the evidence becomes. Extraordinary.
When did they announce “no charges ever”? When did they announce thst the evidence had become less convincing over time?
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When did they announce “no charges ever”? When did they announce thst the evidence had become less convincing over time?
No charges in the foreseeable future. That means ever. Wolters previously claimed they had enough evidence to charge. Now they don't.
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And there are still more sightings of Gerry abducting Maddie than there are of Christian Brueckner.
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It's a difficult task for Wolters. He needs to prove that someone other than the McCanns did it. It's easy to see why he's not getting anywhere.
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It's a difficult task for Wolters. He needs to prove that someone other than the McCanns did it. It's easy to see why he's not getting anywhere.
No he doesn’t need to do that. The only reason he’s involved in this case at all is because the chief and only suspect is a German, banged up in a German prison and about whom he has uncovered or been presented with compelling albeit circumstantial evidence. It’s not his job to interview the McCanns, and why would he need to anyway? They aren’t going to tell him anything he doesn’t already know about the case. Nor is it his job to find an alternative suspect or theory. The McCanns are innocent by the way.
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And there are still more sightings of Gerry abducting Maddie than there are of Christian Brueckner.
There’s more circumstantial evidence against Bruckner than there is against Gerry. The sighting was only 60-80% and ruled out as being Gerry by all law enforcement agencies, including the PJ in their final report.
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There’s more circumstantial evidence against Bruckner than there is against Gerry. The sighting was only 60-80% and ruled out as being Gerry by all law enforcement agencies, including the PJ in their final report.
There's no evidence Brueckner even knew of Madeleine's existence on May 3rd, or that he came into contact with her. Whereas there is plenty of evidence the McCanns did. So it's more likely it was them.
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No he doesn’t need to do that. The only reason he’s involved in this case at all is because the chief and only suspect is a German, banged up in a German prison and about whom he has uncovered or been presented with compelling albeit circumstantial evidence. It’s not his job to interview the McCanns, and why would he need to anyway? They aren’t going to tell him anything he doesn’t already know about the case. Nor is it his job to find an alternative suspect or theory. The McCanns are innocent by the way.
Legally maybe. But are they innocent in Fact?
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There's no evidence Brueckner even knew of Madeleine's existence on May 3rd, or that he came into contact with her. Whereas there is plenty of evidence the McCanns did. So it's more likely it was them.
That’s the logic I’d expect from a 5 year old not an actual grown up which you claim to be.
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Legally maybe. But are they innocent in Fact? No is the answer to that one.
Christian Bruckner is guilty in fact then. Absolutely 100% guilty in fact. OK?
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Christian Bruckner is guilty in fact then. Absolutely 100% guilty in fact. OK?
No.
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That’s the logic I’d expect from a 5 year old not an actual grown up which you claim to be.
Out come the insults. It isn't my fault no one can prove Maddie was abducted.
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No.
Well he is. 100% guilty. In fact.
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Out come the insults. It isn't my fault no one can prove Maddie was abducted.
but it is your fault that you having chosen WUMming as your hobby and that is a very childish way to spend your free time.
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but it is your fault that you having chosen WUMming as your hobby and that is a very childish way to spend your free time.
It only takes a few moments & if I manage to offend or upset at least one person a day then it isn't time wasted for me.
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It only takes a few moments & if I manage to offend or upset at least one person a day then it isn't time wasted for me.
a childish ambition, and the sad thing is you’re not even that good at it.
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a childish ambition, and the sad thing is you’re not even that good at it.
You're quite right. You're the biggest troll around here without even trying.
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You're quite right. You're the biggest troll around here without even trying.
I am right and your post just proved it.
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I am right and your post just proved it.
No. I am right & your posts prove nothing.
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No. I am right & your posts prove nothing.
I think it’s high time I put little children back on ignore.
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And there are still more sightings of Gerry abducting Maddie than there are of Christian Brueckner.
This succinctly sums up the whole Brueckner debacle. The McCann sycophants keep rattling on about 'evidence' of parental involvement, despite there being way more circumstantial evidence and eye witness testimony against them than the hapless hobo Brueckner.
The evidence Hansie relied on 5 years ago, in legal terms and logical terms, has either been discounted or he conflated its significance. He was so unsure of his evidence, despite public proclamations to the contrary, he was too scared to interview Brueckner under caution. The reason? He would have to disclose what he had which would give Brueckner and his team a chance to formulate a defence - you know, due process and all that afforded to all suspected of a serious crime - pathetic. Let's pause for thought, though; if he went to the prosecutors with his evidence, which he must have done, and they told him to gather more evidence, what better way to achieve that than to arrest the man and question him, given that he was so sure of what he currently had?
Let's hark back to the good old days when the PJ were wittily branded 'Keystone Cops', (as the sycos couldn't come up with a novel idiom) and Amaral was 'sardine munching, drunk, fat', again, because they're mostly middle-aged racists.
Well I'll use a tired, worn out figurative desciptor of my own; Hansie is a latter day Inspector Clouseau - proven to be comically inept. Cases tried - 1, cases lost 1. It will stay at 0 for 1 forever, as he was simply too scared to arrest Brueckner, outwitted by a dopey hobo - TWICE!
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Voluntary?? Let me tell you something - I get paid good money for this, though demand for my services has tailed off in the last 10 years since more and more loony ol' sceptics either died of old age or lost interest. One or two even came to their senses and realised how dumb they'd been though they'll never admit it publicly of course....
So according to post your solely interest on here - is protecting the mccs.
Not what happened to Maddie it seems,
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No he doesn’t need to do that. The only reason he’s involved in this case at all is because the chief and only suspect is a German, banged up in a German prison and about whom he has uncovered or been presented with compelling albeit circumstantial evidence. It’s not his job to interview the McCanns, and why would he need to anyway? They aren’t going to tell him anything he doesn’t already know about the case. Nor is it his job to find an alternative suspect or theory. The McCanns are innocent by the way.
The McCanns are innocent by the way.
Obviously that is your view,.....a great amount of the public don't share your view.
It seems the media ect are afraid to speak out publicly on anything but abduction
The 11 top lawyers they employed and others - did a good job.
Afterall either Maddie was abducted or she wasnt.........there is no evidence that she was.
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So according to post your solely interest on here - is protecting the mccs.
Not what happened to Maddie it seems,
Yes, I am a paid shill to protrct the McCanns, clap clap, you’ve uncovered me at last, well done.
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The McCanns are innocent by the way.
Obviously that is your view,.....a great amount of the public don't share your view.
It seems the media ect are afraid to speak out publicly on anything but abduction
The 11 top lawyers they employed and others - did a good job.
Afterall either Maddie was abducted or she wasnt.........there is no evidence that she was.
”a great amount of the public” believe all sorts of nonsense, views that I don’t share such as 9/11 and JFK were the work of the CIA, the Holocaust was a hoax, the world is run by shape-shifting lizards out of a Pizza restaurant in Washington where little kids are abused and sacrificed, Donald Trump is of sound mind and doing a great job on the economy, etc. The media are afraid of nothing except the Mighty McCanns of course, because they rule the world, obviously. So even the media outside of the UK genuflects at their shrine. Yes I know, it’s all one great bit international conspiracy, what do you expect when the rulers of the world’s kid plummets off a sofa to her death after a massive dose of Calpol? A huge cover up natch.
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”a great amount of the public” believe all sorts of nonsense, views that I don’t share such as 9/11 and JFK were the work of the CIA, the Holocaust was a hoax, the world is run by shape-shifting lizards out of a Pizza restaurant in Washington where little kids are abused and sacrificed, Donald Trump is of sound mind and doing a great job on the economy, etc. The media are afraid of nothing except the Mighty McCanns of course, because they rule the world, obviously. So even the media outside of the UK genuflects at their shrine. Yes I know, it’s all one great bit international conspiracy, what do you expect when the rulers of the world’s kid plummets off a sofa to her death after a massive dose of Calpol? A huge cover up natch.
”a great amount of the public” believe all sorts of nonsense,
So does that include those believing - the mccs are not involved in what happened to Maddie.
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”a great amount of the public” believe all sorts of nonsense,
So does that include those believing - the mccs are not involved in what happened to Maddie.
Make up your mind. I thought “a great amount of the public” believe the McCanns dunnit. Perhaps you’d like to quantify “a great amount” versus the amount who don’t think they dunnit (basically me, Eleanor, Sadie and the McCanns themselves and even then I only believe them because they pay me to of course).
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Make up your mind. I thought “a great amount of the public” believe the McCanns dunnit. Perhaps you’d like to quantify “a great amount” versus the amount who don’t think they dunnit (basically me, Eleanor, Sadie and the McCanns themselves and even then I only believe them because they pay me to of course).
Its you who included all sorts of nonsense - in your post
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Its you who included all sorts of nonsense - in your post
Please stop trolling, thanks.
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The McCanns are innocent by the way.
Obviously that is your view,.....a great amount of the public don't share your view.
It seems the media ect are afraid to speak out publicly on anything but abduction
The 11 top lawyers they employed and others - did a good job.
Afterall either Maddie was abducted or she wasnt.........there is no evidence that she was.
Have you ever said why you think the McCanns are guilty. Do you agree with Amaral? What do you think happened?
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Have you ever said why you think the McCanns are guilty. Do you agree with Amaral? What do you think happened?
Have you ever said why you think the McCanns are guilty
Oh pleeeze............if you dont know by now - you never will
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Have you ever said why you think the McCanns are guilty. Do you agree with Amaral? What do you think happened?
I think we're all in agreement that someone went into the apartment, & took Maddie out of it.
Amaral says Gerry did it. Wolters says it was Brueckner. Neither of them can prove it. However, the last person to claim to see Maddie alive was Gerry. So it's more likely he did it.
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Have you ever said why you think the McCanns are guilty. Do you agree with Amaral? What do you think happened?
It’s unlikely you’ll get anything resembling a plausible logical theory of parental involvement which fits the known facts. In a way, the whys and wherefores are not really important to your average McCann sceptic. All they know is that they dunnit and the hows, whys and wheres are quite irrelevant to that belief.
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It’s unlikely you’ll get anything resembling a plausible logical theory of parental involvement which fits the known facts. In a way, the whys and wherefores are not really important to your average McCann sceptic. All they know is that they dunnit and the hows, whys and wheres are quite irrelevant to that belief.
Whereas Wolters has a perfectly logical & plausible explanation of Brueckner's involvement that accounts for all the known facts. He just won't be articulating it, any time in the foreseeable future.
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Make up your mind. I thought “a great amount of the public” believe the McCanns dunnit. Perhaps you’d like to quantify “a great amount” versus the amount who don’t think they dunnit (basically me, Eleanor, Sadie and the McCanns themselves and even then I only believe them because they pay me to of course).
Let's add Brietta, Lace and Mr Grey to that list. All far more valuable contributers, than me. And all caring people with great minds. I am tired now and don't have the energy.
Hope I haven't missed any.
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Let's add Brietta, Lace and Mr Grey to that list. All far more valuable contributers, than me. And all caring people with great minds. I am tired now and don't have the energy.
Hope I haven't missed any.
Li'l ol' me... you know, the Mensa-busting alumnus of Amplefifth College in Timbukthree.
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Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”
Hey, let’s give it another 3 years!
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Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”
Hey, let’s give it another 3 years!
Yes let’s, you child.
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Does anyone know what this 1,000 Euro Fine is all about?
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What 1000 Euro fine?
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What 1000 Euro fine?
The fine Breuckner has been ordered to pay someone. I don't know who or why.
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The fine Breuckner has been ordered to pay someone. I don't know who or why.
I’ve no idea but according to some he’s going to be a multi millionaire by this time next week so I shouldn’t think he’s worried about having to pay such a piffling amount.
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I’ve no idea but according to some he’s going to be a multi millionaire by this time next week so I shouldn’t think he’s worried about having to pay such a piffling amount.
Not this time next week. It's after his release that he'll be suing Wolters & everyone else who called him a murderer. It's less than six months now until Brueckner's liberation day. The police had better pull their fingers out & charge him with Madeleine’s murder, if they're intent on keeping him inside. But if they don't have enough evidence of that, they can always charge him with just the abduction. There's no shortage of evidence of abduction, apparently.
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Wasn’t he supposed to have been released early, a week ago?
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Li'l ol' me... you know, the Mensa-busting alumnus of Amplefifth College in Timbukthree.
Why didn't you mention Oxbort Uni as well? Gotta be pretty clever for that.
I was only including posters who considered Amaral a liar and supported The Mccanns. Soz .... jolly though you are, you don't qualify.
Try again tho' .... free of charge.
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Why didn't you mention Oxbort Uni as well? Gotta be pretty clever for that.
I was only including posters who considered Amaral a liar and supported The Mccanns. Soz .... jolly though you are, you don't qualify.
Try again tho' .... free of charge.
What's all this about Maddie being from Plantagenet / Sir Jesus of Christ stock?
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Well it seems we have learnt something new after 16 + 2 year.
The mccs had police protection at maddies virgil seems that was a first...I wonder why.
The extraordinary security measure comes after the couple were allegedly targeted by two women, one of whom bizarrely claimed to be Madeleine herself.
Extraordinary to say the least.
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Well it seems we have learnt something new after 16 + 2 year.
The mccs had police protection at maddies virgil seems that was a first...I wonder why.
The extraordinary security measure comes after the couple were allegedly targeted by two women, one of whom bizarrely claimed to be Madeleine herself.
Extraordinary to say the least.
Well said.